Military Review

Why did the West support both red and white?

161
The masters of the West have achieved their goal - they divided Russia and the people, they poisoned each other. At the same time, the invasion began with the aim of seizing the Russian lands and its wealth, the final solution of the “Russian question” - the destruction of Russia and the Russian people as the main enemy of the West on the planet.


Causes and main objectives of the intervention

Events in Russia developed rapidly. Following the change of power in the capital, the nationalization of industrial enterprises, banks and other large private property followed. Nationalization has affected the huge financial resources that the Western powers have invested in Russia, not counting significant loans and loans, military supplies. Westerners are always anxious about their vital economic interests. It was about depriving not only many hundreds of millions of dollars invested, pounds sterling and francs and fabulous interest from them, but also the prospects for further economic "development" of Russia.

In addition, the Soviet government negotiated peace with Germany. There was a potential threat that red Moscow and Berlin could do what tsarist Russia and Kaiser Germany could not conclude a strategic alliance directed against France, England and the USA. In Russia, the war began red with white, national separatists. The Bolsheviks were able to quickly beat the White, White Cossacks, Ukrainian nationalists, and won the Civil War. The West could not allow peace to be quickly established in Russia. The West used a pretext for invasion, ostensibly to support the white movement, fighting for “old Russia” and to establish order in the territory of its former ally. Already in December 1917, England and France concluded an agreement on the preparation of military intervention and the division of Russia into spheres of influence. 15 March 1918 at the London Conference representatives of the Entente decided not to recognize the peace treaty of Brest, signed by Soviet Russia with Germany, as well as provide military assistance to anti-Bolshevik forces.

The British Foreign Secretary A.J. Balfour reported the next day to the American government about the decision of the leaders of the three Entente states: “The conference believes that there is only one means - union intervention. If Russia cannot help herself, her friends should help her. But assistance can be provided only in two ways: through the northern ports of Russia in Europe and through its eastern borders in Siberia. Of these, Siberia is perhaps the most important and, at the same time, the most accessible to those forces that the Entente powers may now possess. And from the point of view of human material, and from the point of view of transport, Japan can now do much more in Siberia than France, Italy, America, Great Britain can do in Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. ” Japan was to become the main strike force of the West against Soviet Russia in the Far East and Siberia (up to Irkutsk). The Japanese empire, a young eastern predator who wanted to expand its possession from the islands in the northwest Pacific to the Asian continent, was not opposed.

The Far East, geographically and in its natural potential, turned out to be one of the most attractive pieces of Russian pie. By decision of the Paris Conference of the Entente governing circles, the Far East became the “zone of action” (area of ​​responsibility) of the USA and Japan. However, other Entente countries did not refuse to take part in the military intervention: England, France, Italy, Romania, Poland, China, although most of the latter states participated in the intervention on the Pacific outskirts of Russia purely symbolically. As a result, the Far East was attended by Americans, British, French, Italians, Chinese, Romanians, Poles. The Trans-Siberian Railway was captured by the Czechoslovak Corps. England received Turkestan in its sphere of influence, the British and Americans dominated in the North (with the participation of the French, Italians, Canadians), in the south of Russia, including Ukraine - the British and French (with the participation of Greece, Romania and Serbia), in Karelia - Finnish troops, in the western regions of Russia (Ukraine and Belarus) - the Poles; in the north-western regions of Russia, the Baltic states - Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians and Swedes.

At the same time, the western "friends" were not going to help Russia. First, they wanted to divide the Russian bear's skin, dividing Russia into spheres of influence. therefore the invasion was accompanied by a huge plunder of the country. From the Russian North, Transcaucasia, Turkestan, Ukraine, Ukraine, the Crimea, Primorye, Siberia, tremendous wealth was exported. The Entente quickly distributed zones of influence, and armed intervention against Soviet Russia began almost simultaneously in the South, North, and Far East.

Secondly, the factor was that predators were not one among themselves. The Entente was somewhat ahead of Germany and Austria-Hungary, whose troops quickly occupied the western regions of the Russian state, reaching Pskov, Sevastopol and Don, and Turkey, whose troops occupied the Transcaucasus and took Baku with its oil fields. Germany did not want to give up mining, believing that the wealth of Russia and the right to use them belong to the Germans, who achieved it in the course of stubborn and bloody battles. But the Entente countries were not about to give in to the grand trophy of Germany.

At the same time, this confrontation was manifested in the Soviet leadership. So, when it became clear that the policy of balancing between the two imperialist camps failed and became a convenient screen for the invaders, Lenin thwarted it. He saw that in this situation the most dangerous opponent of the Entente. The German bloc lost the war, was on the verge of revolution and collapse. Soon, Soviet Russia could abandon the “bawdy world” and return the lost. If the Americans and the British with their allies gain a foothold in Russia, then it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to throw them off. Therefore, Lenin began to think about an alliance with Germany against the Entente (Brest 2). Western intelligence agencies were not asleep and replied: in July German ambassador Mirbach was killed, which upset the relations between Moscow and Berlin; at the end of August they shot at Lenin. Immediately after the assassination attempt, Lenin was unconscious: the doctors discovered that he had a dangerous wound in the neck under the jaw, and blood entered the lung. The second bullet hit him in the hand, and the third hit the woman who was talking to Lenin at the moment the shots started. Obviously after the elimination of Lenin, Soviet Russia was to be headed by Trotsky, a protege of the masters of the West. However, the "fifth column" of the West confused Dzerzhinsky. He did not like the rampant Western intelligence services in Russia at all, he was not an agent of the West. Security officers in September 1918 struck a powerful blow at the Entente's agents in Moscow and Petrograd, making mass arrests. Trotsky, with the support of Sverdlov, could not replace Lenin.

Third, Western masters were going to solve the “Russian question” once and for all — to destroy Russian civilization and the people as the main enemy on the planet. And then on the basis of Russia and wealth to build their world order - the global slave-owning civilization. At the same time, there was a draft world order based on Marxism, pseudo-communism. For this, they wanted to realize the “world revolution”, they threw in Russia detachments of revolutionary militants led by Trotsky and Sverdlov. The population of the planet was duped with the slogans of “freedom, equality and fraternity,” while the real power remained with the parasitic clans ruling in the West.

Therefore, in the West they relied on inciting the Civil War in Russia, which began to fade, as the whites and the nationalist separatists did not have popular support and lost. Outwardly, it was amazing: the same Western powers supported the red, white and nationalists. So, when Trotsky became People's Commissar for Military and Naval Affairs, foreigners became the chief assistants and advisers of Lev Davidovich in the formation of the Red Army. And before that, Trotsky led the foreign policy in such a way that the Austro-German offensive began, with the separation of Russia from Ukraine, Ukraine, Bessarabia, Crimea, Belarus, the Baltic states, Finland and Transcaucasia. He also, under the pretext of the German threat and the need to play on the contradictions of the imperialist camps, opened the way for the occupants of the Entente. When 1 March 1918 of the Entente countries' squadron entered the raid of the Murmansk sea port, its commander, British admiral Thomas Kemp handed over to the city authorities a proposal to land troops for the defense against the advancing Germans of Murmansk and the Murmansk railway. The acting chairman of the council, a former ship's stoker, Aleksey Yuriev, reported this to Petrograd and almost immediately received a recommendation from Lev Trotsky, the acting Commissar for Foreign Affairs, to accept the help of the allies. As a result, the Murmansk Council concluded an agreement that the highest authority in Murmansk remains in the hands of the council, the command of the armed forces will be carried out jointly with the British and French. Thus, Trotsky opened the way for Western invaders.

And in the creation of the army, Colonel Robins from the American Red Cross, the French representatives Lavergne and Sadul joined. The British sent their informal mission - it was headed by Bruce Locart. In addition, British intelligence agents Hill and Cromie worked closely with Trotsky. Sydney Reilly arrived in the mission of Locart, who quickly established contacts with the head of the Supreme Military Council, M. D. Bonch-Bruyevich and the manager of the Council of People's Commissars, V. D. Bonch-Bruevich. At the same time, the representatives of the Entente declared that they were helping the Bolsheviks to create an army against the German bloc. They say that Soviet Russia will arm, gain strength and be able to renew the war against Germany together with the Entente.

Here it is necessary to note an interesting fact: the core of the Red Army was to become international. That is, it was a continuation of plans for the creation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics of the world (led by the United States and partners). First of all, the “internationalists” were used - Latvians, Estonians, Chinese, Hungarians, etc. Tens of thousands of German and Austro-Hungarian prisoners were infused into the Red forces. It is clear that Trotsky and his foreign advisers created this army not to defend Russia, but against Russia-Russia and the Russians. It was not suitable for war with the regular armies of Germany or the Entente countries, only as punitive and occupying forces against the Russians.

Thus, the masters of the West with one hand helped to create and arm the Red Army, which was to become international rather than national, contributing to the "world revolution", and with the other hand they sent money and weapon Kaledin, Denikin, white governments of the Urals and Siberia, Kolchak. The ancient strategy of "divide, poison, and conquer" - in action!

Why did the West support both red and white?

Entente countries ships in the port of Murmansk

Intervention

Far East. The intervention of the Entente countries in the Far East began under two plausible pretexts. First, it was necessary to protect foreign citizens in the Far East and Siberia. Japan was particularly “interested” in this, so many Japanese citizens lived in only one port of Vladivostok, and they began to settle here even before 1904 (according to official data, 3283 people who had Japanese citizenship lived in Vladivostok). Secondly, the Entente pledged to assist in the evacuation of the Czechoslovak Corps from Russia, whose military trains by then stretched along the railroad from the banks of the Volga to Western Siberia.

The first ships in Vladivostok were not Japanese ships, but the American cruiser Brooklyn, which arrived there on November 11, 1917. He anchored in the sight of the city. The commander in chief of Asia held his flag on Brooklyn fleet US Admiral Knight. At the end of December 1917 and the beginning of January 1918, the Japanese cruisers Asahi and Iwami, the English cruiser Suffolk, arrived at the Vladivostok raid. On all these Entente ships were landing forces, ready to go ashore at the first order. The Allies initially interestedly watched the course of the Civil War in the Russian Far East. The situation there was not in favor of the whites. The interventionists have not yet gone ashore in Vladivostok because of fears that the Soviet government might conclude not only a separate peace with Germany and its allies, but also a military alliance (the world war was still ongoing).

The events of the civil war in Russia and the conclusion of a separate peace in Brest-Litovsk hurried the Allies on the Entente with the start of open military intervention. The Reds began to prevail over the whites in the Far East. The White Cossack Atamans of the Trans-Baikal Army G. M. Semenov with his Special Manchu Detachment (a Japanese officer, Kuroki, became a military adviser under Semenov at that time) created in the CER line (in Transbaikalia), the Amur Cossack Army I. M. Gamov (in the Amur Region ) and the Ussuri Cossack troops I. M. Kalmykov (in Primorye) were defeated in red and fled to the territory of neighboring Manchuria. There they found a reliable base and a springboard for aggression against Soviet Russia.

It did not suit the West and Japan. The Japanese military command began to rely on such a “strong personality” in the Far East as Colonel Semenov. Major Kuroki and the Japanese Consul General in Manchuria introduce Colonel Semyonov to an influential man in the imperial army command circles. He was the colonel of the General Staff Kurosawa, the future chief of the Japanese military mission in Chita, who later became the quartermaster general of the General Staff in Tokyo. Semenov and the Japanese military achieved complete mutual understanding. The Japanese side immediately rendered the white ataman not only material and moral, but also assistance from the troops that became part of the Special Manchu Detachment. Semenov himself wrote about this with all frankness: ““ At headquarters there was a battalion of Japanese volunteers, up to 600, a man who was a mobile reserve and usually rushed to the attacked front, replacing infantry from Chinese volunteers, whose valor after three months of continuous fighting left much to be desired. The Japanese battalion was created on the initiative of Captain Kuroki, who seconded the staff of his mission, Angio and Seo Eytaro, in southern Manchuria to attract volunteers from among reservists. They successfully coped with their task, recruiting several hundred soldiers who had just completed the service for the service in the squadron. The battalion was commanded by a valiant officer, Captain Okumura. The Japanese battalion in a short time earned a reputation as the strongest and most stable unit in the detachment, and the people who made it taught us, Russian officers, soldiers and Cossacks, to look at the Japanese as true and sincere friends of national Russia, who put their commitments above their obligations everything in the world, even above his own life. Thus, friendship and brotherhood of Russian and Japanese soldiers arose in the harsh Transbaikalia steppes, which were sustained by heavy casualties suffered by the detachment during this period of continuous battles with superior enemy forces ... "

So the whites and the Japanese became “loyal and sincere friends,” although it was obvious that the Japanese Empire claimed a significant chunk of the Russian lands. For the withdrawal from the warships to the Russian shores of the “peacekeeping forces” the interventionists needed only a direct and loud for the world community ”pretext. And he did not hesitate to "happen." On the night of April 5, 1918, “unknown persons” committed an armed attack with the aim of robbing the Vladivostok branch of the Japanese trading company Isido. During this thugger attack, two Japanese citizens were killed by the attackers. And immediately the squadron of the ships of the Entente countries set in motion and was no longer on the outer roadstead of Vladivostok, but at the moorings of its inner harbor — the Golden Horn Bay.

On April 5, two companies of Japanese infantry and half a man of British marines land in Vladivostok, occupying important points in the port and in the city center. The landing was carried out under the guise of ship guns aimed at urban areas and fortifications of Vladivostok. But the interventionists, in essence, did not meet any, even unarmed, resistance in the powerless port city. Vladivostok Council almost did not have military forces. The next day, a landing party of 250 sailors disembarks from the Japanese ships. The Japanese seized the island of Russian with its fortifications and artillery batteries, military depots and barracks. Thus, without any struggle, the armed intervention of the Entente began in the Russian Far East. Admiral Kato, who commanded the Japanese cruiser detachment, on the orders of which a landing force was landed in Vladivostok, appealed to the urban population. In it, he announced that the Land of the Rising Sun in his face assumes the protection of public order in Vladivostok and its surroundings. The reason for this decision was also indicated: ensuring the personal security of numerous foreign citizens residing in the port city.

The beginning of the landing of the Entente troops in the south of Primorye served as a signal for the offensive actions of the white troops. In April, the ataman Semenov launched a new offensive in the south of Transbaikalia and the ataman of the Ussurian Cossack army of Kalmyks intensified his actions. Both of them received help from the interventionists with weapons and ammunition. In the detachment of Semenov were Japanese soldiers. Semenovsk troops moved along the railway, aiming at the city of Chita. In May 1918, Ataman Semenov, at Borzya Station, declared himself and the people close to him of the cadet S. A. Taskin and General I. F. Shilnikov “Provisional Trans-Baikal Government”. This government only from spring to autumn 1918 received military and financial assistance from Japan for almost 4,5 million rubles. During the same period, France assisted the ataman Semenov in excess of 4 million rubles. Great Britain's help turned out to be much more modest - only 500 thousand rubles.

And the Western powers have relied on his mercenary - Admiral Kolchak. Therefore, the Westerners favorably reacted to the coup in Omsk and the arrival of Kolchak in power in the White movement of Siberia and declaring it the supreme ruler of Russia. The Japanese preferred to maintain in the East of Russia the power of the white-Cossack chieftains Semenov, Kalmykov, Gamow and certain small governments, which were weak, had no support in the population and were forced to seek help from Japan in everything. In Tokyo, they believed that Admiral Kolchak was “the man of Washington”, and the activity on the post of Russia's Supreme Ruler could damage the strategic interests of the Land of the Rising Sun in the Far East. Therefore, Kolchak, at the insistence of the Japanese government, was removed from the administration of the Chinese Eastern Railway in the spring of 1918 (he headed the military department there) and remained out of business until October of this year. Kolchak was an ardent opponent of the Japanese orientation and hoped for the help of the Western powers.


American troops in Vladivostok. Xnumx

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
Who incited the Civil War
White fought for the interests of the West
Anti-Russian and anti-state white project
How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War
How to create Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people"
How the red took Kiev
Victory of the Red Army on the Don
Bloody Battle of the Ice Campaign
How Kornilov stormed Ekaterinodar
Destined to die? Died with honor!
People against power
How Drozdovtsy broke through on the Don
How drozdovtsy stormed Rostov
Don Republic Ataman Krasnov
West helped the Bolsheviks?
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  1. igordok
    igordok 29 May 2018 05: 50
    +3
    The first koment will be from Olegovich. Not counting mine. am
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 07: 35
      +4
      probably, as always, in order for the Russians to be killed more, but they, unlike the Reds, they did not want to see as winners under any circumstances
      1. dSK
        dSK 29 May 2018 08: 30
        +3
        Quote: YELLOWSTONE
        they, unlike the reds, did not want to see the winners under any circumstances.

        Trotsky and his foreign advisers

        Harry Es Truman (1884 - 1972), 33rd President of the United States (from 1945-1953 from the Democratic Party), Baptist, senior freemason (in 1959 he was awarded an honorary award in honor of 50 years of service Masonic Order: "If we see that Germany wins the war, we should help Russia, if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and let them kill each other as much as possible" (wikipedia);
        1. dSK
          dSK 29 May 2018 08: 58
          +5
          To seize power over the world creates "controlled chaos" for destruction of Christian civilization - finance the “red”, “white”, “green”, “blue”, “pink” ... A series of “color” revolutions for the fragmentation of large, “independent” countries. Ruined the gigantic Russian Christian Empire, ruined the USSR, created a seminarian Stalin, the same fate is being prepared for the Russian Federation. What have you done with Christian Europe - in Brussels there are mass moths funded by the Rothschilds. In the States, the Israeli lobby is growing by leaps and bounds.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Ruudi 34
            Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 19: 09
            0
            And you don’t be a fool and that’s all ... no one will touch.
        2. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 12: 31
          +1
          there the quote goes on, or in another source
      2. Ruudi 34
        Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 11: 54
        +3
        Excellent .... This West helped those who: 1. Signed the peace of Brest with the Entente’s enemies. 2. Nationalized Western property on the territory of Russia. 3. Closed to foreign merchants all concessions. 4. He killed a foreign representative. 5. Nationalized all WESTERN banks. 6. Refused to pay the "royal debt" .... you can see everything in Canada, I suppose?
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 12: 26
          +5
          do you know how Torotsky and his comrades distributed concessions to the West?
          with all the rest you are also deceived, or are you trying to deceive everyone
          1. Ruudi 34
            Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 18: 33
            +5
            Yes, even if I handed out ... only they lost them in the end. And then what happened to Trotsky? The Reds threw the West not bad ... Brazenly and openly. I personally applaud them. How did the West react? They wiped themselves and began to crush the “reds." One example is the economic blockade and the political “non-recognition”. But in the end, they got the Rappals treaty between the USSR and Germany - with a scarecrow and an outsider of Europe ... The West in the face of the French and the British frowned then .. The "Reds" simply did not fall under the West and this is their fault now with "civilized Europe" and "Orthodox people ".....
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 18: 57
              +5
              Quote: Rudi 34
              Yes, even if I distributed ...

              good
              as a result, they lost them because of Stalin, who also shot the international and restored the patriarchate in Russia, the Reds before the purges simply destroyed the Russians as a people, and not some classes in it, some simply in the first place
              1. Ruudi 34
                Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 08: 03
                +1
                Well, yes ... The reaction expected from you ... We are now beginning to praise the "RED" Stalin. Funny you gentlemen, "Russian nationalists ..." The executions of the "Russian liberal intelligentsia" Stalin can be forgotten, right? lol
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 08: 58
                  0
                  quite expected reaction to COLORS yes and the rest doesn’t matter
                  1. Ruudi 34
                    Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 14: 58
                    0
                    And what is wrong? The "Reds" were also called socialists in the mid-19th century. (Somewhere in Germany - if I'm not mistaken) But you will not deny that both Stalin and Lenin are socialists?
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 15: 13
                      0
                      and cyclists? now the "isms" have gone, socialism later browned somehow in Germany,
                      Stalin called himself a Russian man, Lenin wrote about Russians worse than about the intelligentsia and Hitler had the prefix national
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 30 May 2018 06: 51
      0
      Quote: igordok
      The first koment will be from Olegovich. Not counting mine.

      And?
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 29 May 2018 05: 56
    +5
    The West was neither bad nor good. Western countries did not give a damn about red and white: they pursued their own interests, which, in principle, is logical.
    Therefore, he supported, in the end, the Reds, because he did not need the United and Indivisible Russia of the Whites, as a competitor.
    Reds cut the body of Russia into parts, they were more profitable.
    1. cost
      cost 29 May 2018 07: 44
      +5
      Why did the West support both red and white?

      Author and why the west? Are Japan and the US Western countries?
    2. Nikitin
      Nikitin 29 May 2018 09: 55
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      United and Indivisible White Russia he did not need, as a competitor.

      This is yes.
      Lloyd George Churchill during the days of Denikin's summer offensive in 1919
      I personally am very afraid that a united Russia will become a big threat to us, "-.

      И
      "The advisability of assisting Admiral Kolchak and General Denikin isI’m all the more controversial because they are fighting for a united Russia. Don't tell me Does this slogan fit UK policy. One of our great people, Lord Beaconsfield, saw in a huge, powerful and great Russia, rolling like a glacier, towards Persia, Afghanistan and India, the most formidable danger to the british empire"said Lloyd George in the House of Commons.

      Air Force company about the attitude to the Bolsheviks ::
      In business and analytic circles in the United States, the point of view was that Bolshevik victory meets American interests, because those with their policies will drive Russia into poverty and underdevelopment.

      In the summer of 1919, Finnish President Kaarlo Stolberg invited Denikin to move the Finnish army to Petrograd in exchange for recognition of Finland's independence. Denikin replied that he would hang, of course, Lenin, but Stolberg would be the second.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 29 May 2018 11: 09
        0
        Not the second, but the third. The second Denikin intended to hang Mannerheim. )))
    3. Ruudi 34
      Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 12: 02
      +6
      The West was a pragmatist - but he really doesn’t give a damn about human life ... if it does not give dividends. "The Reds, who cut the body of Russia into parts, were more profitable for them." - initially yes. Only now, Lenin threw them so well. Gathering by the 24th year all the main strategically important parts of Russia. The “Pragmatist of Lenin” is groaned for having beaten the “pragmatists of the West ..” - if you do not understand the essence of this article-highr of “PGMnutnykh”. (You look: it turns out "red-bellied bastard", too - "Russian people" .... go nuts .. belay )
      (And also: GOELRO plan, even though you break your forehead in the church in bowing and cessation of confession - well, you won’t do it anyway ......)
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 12: 18
        +2
        according to the GOELRO plan, tremendous damage was caused in the USSR due to the flooding of lands under the reservoirs in the interests of power plants that produced only 6,5% of the electricity
        in Tsarist Russia they were very familiar with electricity even before that, and they even built 80% of Soviet railways.
        the USSR began to reach the level of 1913 only at the end of Stalin’s reign, which was not at all in the period covered by the article and was fundamentally different
        1. Ruudi 34
          Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 18: 55
          +4
          Nonsense. Who then thought about ecology? This is a time when human life wasn’t appreciated ... and you’re snot about “tremendous damage” and “flooding” here .. And the GOELRO plan is not an “assault” electrification as the Western media present us now ... Can you really imagine how " plan for 100 percent electrification of the country "? And where will the means and forces find a country that lies in ruins? No need to hold the "Leninists" for idiots, please ... About 13 years old, this is nonsense invented by the "Reds," by the way, which ... oh god .. out of forgetfulness, the modern "whites" have adopted. And do not compare the economy of Tsarist and "Stalinist" Russia - the tasks and opportunities were different ...
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 19: 09
            +1
            you have nonsense, you just had to flood this territory which gave a significant percentage of the crop in the floodplains, and then cult like Hitler Moscow
            They thought about ecology when the swamps were drained and not when they were arranged, give at least one more example of a country with a temperate climate where such disgrace was done (in arid Egypt, they still doubt it)
            1. Ruudi 34
              Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 08: 19
              +2
              In Russia, crops are not grown on floodplains, as in Egypt .. You still say that we grow grain in flood meadows, which we use for summer pastures, and I will die completely from laughter. In addition, you completely confused the "flooded territory" with the "flood plain" - and these are completely different things. Maybe you wanted to say "river valleys"? So: Russia of the period of the 20s - territory with completely beggarly crops precisely along the rivers .... The main supplier of grain then was the South, Urals, Ukraine and part of near Siberia. Start more tales to tell "Russia fed the whole world with grain" ... yeah of course: "we are undernourished. But we will be glad" these are the tsarist ministers saying ... You look at the photos of Russian villages ... fed, yeah .. how about ..
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 02
                0
                now no, on fertile floodplain soils vegetable productivity is much higher
                you can call it whatever you like
                instead, there was worse famine in the Volga region than in Ukraine
                You look at the photo of German cities where every second rickets and not Russian villages that you specifically select
                1. Ruudi 34
                  Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 09: 41
                  +2
                  (Friend, you started to refer to “what .. but they have ..” This is cheers-patriotism, but not patriotism. I know about hunger and rickets in Germany during the First World War). You read articles at least Russian classics. Everyone ... absolutely everyone abused the tsarist regime for what was going on in the Russian village .. A Russian woman gives birth to about 10 children .... almost all die ... Cholera. Moreover, the patriarchal family ... Honor Uspensky .... the woman is not a person. What will you grow up if your father beats your mother in front of your little one?
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 50
                    0
                    among the classics were Russians and even normal?
                    due to unsanitary conditions in other countries it was much worse
              2. Ruudi 34
                Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 09: 04
                +2
                1. In Russia, crops are not harvested in floodplains. We are not Egypt. Even the "river valleys" do not harvest, for these are mainly water meadows and are used as pastures for livestock in the "low water". Harvest from us is harvested on the "river terraces" and "watersheds". (thanks to my geography teacher and childhood in the village). 2. Russia is a country in which for EVERY per capita about 25-30 ha. fertile land. Which never used in full force ... except for the USSR. (MTSs, state farms, good supply of energy saturation) (Now you see beautiful pictures along the roads for window dressing ... but you don’t know, for example, what is “Bashkir cotton”) 3. Ecology is always last but not least ... this is a tradition from antiquity. The Poles live in a temperate climate .... they killed all the tours. The American North, a temperate climate, killed almost all mustangs and absolutely all bison. (And in the "dry" West yet). Well, yes ... they thought about ecology. 5. In connection with the construction of the Aswan Hydroelectric Power Station, it became possible to regulate the flow of the Nile ... Uncle ... the ancient Egyptians wrote about the terrible floods of the Nile. Plus adjustable floods "understand" .. which, as I understand it, you have no idea.
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 53
                  0
                  this is now and not everywhere, a lot of things were drained later in other places
                  outside I understand (they are not all naturally flooded) in Russia with land it is bad, chernozem only in the Kuban
                  just read what the Egyptians write about it
                  1. Ruudi 34
                    Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 15: 16
                    0
                    Now ... Right now. And what then did they know especially about "now"? Central Russia is actually a zone of risky farming. And the lowest yielding area ... in which you still have to invest. By the way, look at where the hydropower plants mainly located on the GOELRO are located ... These are lands with very inefficient productivity .. Svir, Volkhov, Uglich .. yes there are swamps and forests alone ... The main construction of the hydropower plant with "flooding" was after Stalin, by the way ... (Moreover, the majority in Siberia)
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 15: 22
                      0
                      this is now because these fertile floodplains are flooded, which were not such a zone and the yields there were better than Europe
                      and these hydroelectric power plants gave 6,5%
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 May 2018 08: 00
            +1
            Quote: Rudi 34
            No need to hold the "Leninists" for idiots, please ..

            Why keep them: they were them.
            Having come to power, they .... couldn’t do anything, even just earn a living, for NEVER, ANYWHERE ANYBODY had worked before.
            And all of their economic theories came down to the simplest: to select, force and shoot.
            Quote: Rudi 34
            About 13 years old, this is nonsense

            Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR, 1955 (top-secret) -read: only food and clothing caught up only 1913
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 03
              +1
              let it not get a bit worse, but if there was a business executive himself - he understood what was before yes
            2. Ruudi 34
              Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 09: 22
              +1
              So I say "nonsense" invented by the "red" ... Thank you, they even reminded that Khrushchov invented. yes
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 30 May 2018 10: 54
                0
                Quote: Rudi 34
                So I say "nonsense" invented by the "red"

                Data 37 g, 40, 50 gg is Khrushchev’s numbers? Give Stalin.
                1. Ruudi 34
                  Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 15: 21
                  0
                  Why give? I do not deny that Stalin carried out powerful industrialization. And the numbers "13 years old ..." are actually just propaganda ... The people will run to consider "effectiveness" - "wait ... we ran away. We reached the 13th level - well, to hell with it ... we went on to work ... the authorities know better. " Doesn’t resemble anything? )
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 31 May 2018 08: 03
                    0
                    Quote: Rudi 34
                    Why give?

                    You don’t like the 55th year.
                    Quote: Rudi 34
                    . Reached level 13 - well, to hell with it ... went on to work ..

                    Yes, not with him: The report is secret, so that people do not know the truth. By the way, but nothing that reached it almost in .... FORTY YEARS AFTER 1913?
                    At the same time, for decades, LIED that everything is better.
            3. Ruudi 34
              Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 09: 25
              +1
              They were able to do a lot of things, my friend ... for example, to make "world shocks" in the form of the collapse of several figures from the world level. (Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia ..) Can you? And to create a team of such people? Call them cruel, then I still agree, but not idiots. Do not contradict your statements with facts .. it is not smart from a simple layman.,
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 55
                +1
                in general, they would be smart
                1. Ruudi 34
                  Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 15: 24
                  +1
                  Nuuuu ... then all politicians, without exception, can be fools ... what can it be. Nicholas, for example, the Second. Than not fooled? Quite normal, such .. smile
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 00
                    +1
                    Yes, he was a little soft, would have hung not only one of your Ulyanov but two at once (or even their entire family) and it would have been all right with him and his own family
                    after all, it was the first brother who tried to do it yes
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 30 May 2018 11: 05
                0
                Quote: Rudi 34
                They were able to do a lot of things, my friend ... for example, to make "world shocks" in the form of the collapse of several figures from the world level. (Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia ..)

                Break-do not build if you did not know. They also forgot Porto, they broke this one too. lol
                No one else did anything and did not fight lol
                Quote: Rudi 34
                You can? And to create a team of such people?

                Out of a handful of never-working, nowhere-growing, oversized lobsters that have not managed to earn even their own bread with their labor? No. The composition of the first so-called Governments and biographies, take a look.
                "Mom, COME MONEY!"- they asked for letters from a balding foreign tourist (also with the same loafer) from Paris and Switzerland of their mother -PENSIONER ..
                Quote: Rudi 34
                Call them cruel, then I still agree, but not idiots.

                I’ll put a connecting union "and". A better, without the "and" .. yes
                PS You personally (it’s YOU, not YOU) wouldn’t even trust such a "practitioner" to build in the yard. And the state is "possible", yes .... fool
                1. Pyctam
                  Pyctam 23 January 2019 15: 48
                  0
                  "Mama, GET MONEY!" - they asked for letters from an already balding foreign tourist (also with the same idler wife) from Paris and Switzerland to their mother, PENSIONERKE. "
                  Cool, the old women in Russia under the emperor didn’t have such a retirement pension that for almost twenty years one pensioner could support her son, his wife, mother-in-law and daughter, even though they rolled around Europe and lived in expensive apartments in Paris, Switzerland and other Baden- Badenam ...
                  It’s necessary to blurt out
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 29 May 2018 20: 33
          +4
          Quote: YELLOWSTONE
          80% of Soviet railways.

          Where does 80% come from? 70 thousand with something km. built for 17 years, and for 91 years in the USSR was 227 thousand km.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 20: 45
            +1
            from there that recently there was an article on this site about it, you can read there
            put the second track, there were almost no new roads
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 29 May 2018 21: 36
              +3
              Quote: YELLOWSTONE
              from there that recently there was an article on this site about it, you can read there
              put the second track, there were almost no new roads

              Yeah, I found it. So, even taking into account the second track, it turns out that 17 thousand km were built for 140 years. (although it’s ridiculous to count the new rut as the royal one). 227 - 140 = 87 thousand were built in the USSR against 140 000 in the Republic of Ingushetia. Again, it’s ridiculous to give out the second new one for the tsar’s. So how much interest do we get? Damn, I, unfortunate troshnik, and then up to 80% I can’t guess. But the length of modern Russian Railways (WHAT ABOUT THIS ARTICLE) is 85 km. and railway RI with its 000 km. and are those 70%. So, in 000 years of modern Russia, we have lost 80 km. Train. Let us again be about the USSR, where it was 28 km.? I'm stunned. request
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 22: 09
                +1
                no it doesn’t work, the railroad workers themselves spoke about 80% during the USSR and didn’t particularly look around
                the second new one where it used to be no one for the royal and did not give out
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 29 May 2018 22: 21
                  +3
                  The fact of the matter is that you do not succeed. Take a calculator and count. Again. You write about the USSR, and in that article - about the modern Russian Railways. All those thousands of miles. from 227000 split off along with the collapse of the USSR. And in 2014 it became 85000 km. As well as I don’t know how many thousands there broke away along with the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia, and sailed to Poland and Finland. Will we also consider them? In general, do not confuse the USSR with modern Russia. And about "The railwaymen themselves said," who said that, and in what year?
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 22: 39
                    +1
                    I wrote the USSR without confusion
                    in the late 80s, about the second track specified
                    questions constantly arose why such ancient years on the railway inventory
                    and why the BAM will come together with such a pomp, and then it turned out that it was built under the Tsar and Stalin and then only half finished lol
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 29 May 2018 23: 55
                      +3
                      I have already given you the figures twice. But apart from unfounded allegations I don’t see anything. You first referred to an article on our website, and it is written in black and gray that the length of roads in the Republic of Ingushetia was 80% of the length of modern Russian Railways. That is, 70000 against 85000. Will the numbers be from you or not?
                      1. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 02: 51
                        0
                        Was the figure indicated in the article?
                        the length of the railways and not the paths to them, automobiles also happen to be multi-lane
                        and one-way non-electrified and now a lot
                      2. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 07: 06
                        0
                        it is still possible in numbers did not take into account the narrow gauge and the alteration of even the first track
                        it was all much easier on the terms than pulling the first
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 May 2018 06: 55
            0
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            70 thousand with something km. built for 17 years

            85 thousand built and 15 thousand in construction. Total 100 thousand km of Russian roads!
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 30 May 2018 07: 27
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              85 thousand built and 15 thousand in construction. Total 100 thousand km of Russian roads!

              Yes, at least 120 thousand. Sources in the USSR give out 227 thousand km., And even cry, I do not see 80%.
              Quote: YELLOWSTONE
              it is still possible in numbers did not take into account the narrow gauge and the alteration of even the first track

              Didn’t they count in the subway? In general, Zero blows RI. sad
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 30 May 2018 09: 07
                0
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                I do not see 80%

                Not 80%. AND?
                Russia built 100 thousand km of roads, the USSR-127 thousand km.
                Russia clearly won.
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 56
                  0
                  if you are waiting for train then there where the railway reached 80% it was still under the Tsar
                  and then you can twist the numbers with a rut by the number of paths by overwriting it
                  for some reason nobody is bombing all the English roads were built 150 years ago, and with 80% of Russian roads this is not right
                  and by the way, after all, it was necessary to recover after the Second World War, but still it was easier
                2. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 30 May 2018 14: 05
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Russia built 100 thousand km of roads, the USSR-127 thousand km.
                  Russia clearly won.

                  The Russian Empire built roads for 81 years. USSR - 74 years. And where did she win? By the way, except for the figure of 227 km. to me and the figure of 000 km. I met, but I did not take it, but you used the figure of 306 and added 000 unfinished. And how much was unfinished at the time of the collapse of the USSR? In short, if you don’t twist the numbers here, it will never happen here that RI won the construction of railway from the USSR.
                  Quote: YELLOWSTONE
                  for some reason nobody is bombing all the English roads were built 150 years ago, and with 80% of Russian roads this is not right

                  Yes, because it’s a lie. And arrogant.
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 14: 19
                    0
                    no, it’s just bombing, and in the most irrational way
                    and for England not, she’s so advanced all and not her own yes
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 30 May 2018 14: 23
                      +1
                      Quote: YELLOWSTONE
                      she is so advanced all and not her own

                      That's just what they thought in the Republic of Ingushetia, buying Aglitz steam locomotives, and not paying attention to the Cherepanovs product. So not at the address.
                      1. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 14: 44
                        0
                        It’s as if they weren’t doing it at all? maybe someone needed a rollback to an English bank and not to the bank of these brothers in Russia.
                        at the address do not confuse the length of the railway with the length of the second tracks, the length of the redone first tracks, and take into account the ones restored during and after the Second World War, because when the Germans retreated they seriously damaged them
                        wide gauge and narrow gauge can still affect numbers
      2. Nikitin
        Nikitin 29 May 2018 13: 42
        +4
        Quote: Rudi 34
        Only Lenin threw them so well. Collecting by the 24th year, all the main strategically important parts of Russia. The “Pragmatist of Lenin” is groaned for having beaten the “pragmatists of the West ..” - if you do not understand the essence of this article-vyser


        I look at the map and do not see the "meeting." As he cut Russia into pieces, that’s exactly how they are in the form of the “states” made by him, a republic, and during that time they became completely Russophobic (by chance, yes)
        Quote: Rudi 34
        And one more thing: the GOELRO plan, even though you break your forehead in the church in bowing and cessation of confession - well, you won’t realize it .....

        Although hurt, and GOELRO began his life in Russia before the thief)
        1. Ruudi 34
          Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 18: 57
          +4
          The plans .... which could not be implemented, unfortunately, are tsarist economists ...
          As for the "parts of Russia." You forgot how in the dashing 90s yelled: "why do we need this Caucasus"? Have you forgotten how tsarist officials grumbled "The Caucasus and Poland - Russia's headache"? "Imperial ambitions," why did they wake up? Well, the oligarchy will inflate it well for you - do not hesitate ...
          1. dSK
            dSK 29 May 2018 21: 49
            +1
            Quote: Rudi 34
            headache
            talked about the Crimea in 2014 and not only "ordinary". Then they got used to it, another resort area appeared.
            The railway "bypass" of Ukraine in the Rostov area has already been completed. In order to start designing the railway bypass of Petropavlovsk (Kazakhstan), Nazarbayev has a respectable age, the new president can cover the whole Transib, (thanks to grandfather Lenin.)
            1. Ruudi 34
              Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 08: 24
              +2
              Crimea is a natural aircraft carrier of the Black Sea ... well, and resorts by accident. That chopped off ... well done just. This is the norm.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 May 2018 08: 11
            +1
            Quote: Rudi 34
            The plans .... which failed implement, unfortunately, the tsarist economists.

            We didn’t have time, but we couldn’t. And they would have made the same economy, but without more than a dozen million dead from starvation and hard labor unpaid tens of millions.
            Quote: Rudi 34
            As for the "parts of Russia." You forgot how in the dashing 90s yelled: "why do we need this Caucasus"? You forgot how tsarist officials grumbled "The Caucasus and Poland - Mr.tin pain Of Russia "?" Imperial ambitions, why did they wake up?

            Russian Odessa, the cradle of the Russian fleet Nikolaev, Kherson, Yekaterinoslav, the southern capital of Russia, Yuzovka, Uralsk, Faithful and so forth is for you HEAD pain ?! fool
            Doesn’t your head hurt from Russian Moscow?
            1. The comment was deleted.
  3. VS
    VS 29 May 2018 08: 37
    +2
    In general, a true article)))
  4. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 29 May 2018 11: 12
    +2
    "The Bolsheviks were able to quickly defeat the whites, white Cossacks, Ukrainian nationalists and won the Civil War" - when was this - in 1917? In November-December? Cool!
  5. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 29 May 2018 11: 30
    +4
    Western masters helped create and arm the Red Army with one hand

    So I did not see a single fact when and how the West helped create and arm the Red Army?
    How the West helped to create and arm the white army is obvious. If the European Union did not beat to help the West, no civil war could take place.
    The victory of the Reds cost the West the loss of several billion gold rubles of Russian debts, as well as the loss of all property in Russia, including all Dobich and oil refining.
    1. Ruudi 34
      Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 12: 15
      +5
      You know what's funny in this article? "Red-bellied bastards" is now also "Russian people". And ours and yours, so to say ... thanks .. rehabilitated .. lol
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 12: 21
      +1
      youthhood starting right from the uniform bully
      1. Ruudi 34
        Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 15: 41
        +1
        Well, yes, Mr. Captain, like a snotty kid who logged in for the first time, we firmly and steadfastly believe that the number of stars on uniform affects the erudite. Guilty, sir, we’ll fix it ... let me go?
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 02
          0
          go of course look where this form from the Kazakh rebels of 1916 came from
    3. Nikitin
      Nikitin 29 May 2018 13: 56
      +2
      Quote: Kostadinov
      So I did not see a single fact when and how the West helped create and arm the Red Army?
      So, they didn’t read the article, for Trotsky is the West, according to the author. yes
      Quote: Kostadinov
      How the West helped to create and arm the white army is obvious. If the European Union did not beat to help the West, no civil war could take place.

      Before talking nonsense, they would read Denikin’s testimony that
      “The main source of supply until February 1919. were seized Bolshevik reserves "..
      And, for example,. of 20 tanks and 40 airplanes received by Yudenich from the British, only one tank and one the plane was in good condition.
      HS blazed already a YEAR! And they were supplied with white weapons, which were taken from the Reds. Would supply them earlier ....
      Quote: Kostadinov
      The victory of the Reds cost the West the loss of several billion gold rubles of Russian debts, as well as the loss of all property in Russia, including all Dobich and oil refining.

      The West did not notice this loss, but Russia lost credits, investments, technologies, becoming an international outcast
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 29 May 2018 16: 25
        +2
        Quote: Nikitin-
        supplied with white weapons, which were taken from the Reds.

        And the Reds were supplied with weapons, which were taken from the whites, who were provided by him abroad:
        “... in the rear - from Art. Kargat and until Novonikolaevsk there were dozens of trains, frozen without fuel ...
        Here are the platforms loaded with brand new English cannons, on which the factory lubrication is still frozen. Next - a carriage with shells, cartridges, rifles. Even further stolen Kolchakites from the Ural factories machines. And there they went wagons with cereals, sugar, flour, a finished dress, furs, felt boots, furniture and Kolchak money ... "
        And in occupied Novonikolaevsk, “The trophies we captured are hard to count: more than 200 guns, including all Kolchak’s heavy artillery, 2 armored trains, 5 armored cars, about 1000 machine guns, more than 50000 rifles, 5 million rounds of ammunition and 3 million shells. They also seized all the commandant's artillery and engineering warehouses of the front, a huge number of different assets. To our great joy, we also got a significant amount of medicines ”(Memoirs of the revolutionary Novonikolaevsk (1904–1920) L. A. Krasnopolsky“ The Liberation of Novonikolayevsk from the Whites ”).
  6. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 May 2018 11: 38
    +2
    Previously, traditionally, it was believed that the West (Entente)
    supported whites. As the "heirs" of the Russian Empire.
    But now conspiratorial historians needed
    prove that the founder of the Red Army and the winner
    whites in the Civil Slaughter, leader "number two" after Lenin
    Comrade Trotsky is an agent of the West.
    No sooner said than done. Internet users eat everything. laughing
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 12: 12
      +2
      who was considered?
      even the fact that he has the name Bronstein
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 May 2018 22: 45
        0
        "even the fact that he has the name Bronstein" /////

        So he won? belay
        That is, if his last name was “Petrov”, then the Reds would lose, according to your logic, incomprehensible to me ... recourse
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 22: 54
          +1
          because everyone else was not Petrov, but Petrov was on the German front
    2. Ruudi 34
      Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 12: 17
      +3
      Who released the author of this article from the monastery cell? No.
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 12
        +1
        do you have something against orthodox monasteries?
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 29 May 2018 17: 02
      +3
      "Intervention" in Soviet times was put in first place. The tragedy of the split people was presented as a struggle against external aggression, and whites - for foreign puppets.

      But once Vladimir Lenin let slip. "There is no doubt that the most insignificant exertion of the forces of these three powers [Britain, France and Japan] would be quite enough to defeat us in a few months, if not several weeks," he wrote.

      In fact, the interventionists acted as insignificant forces, almost did not participate in battles with the regular Red Army, only indicating their presence on the outskirts of the country and solving particular tasks, and the White was far from unambiguous.

      The only militarily significant acts of intervention were the actions of Japan in the Far East and the Soviet-Polish war of 1920. But the Japanese did not set the task of changing power in distant Moscow, but sought to tear off Primorye from Russia. Pilsudski was also not interested in domestic Russian affairs, but wanted to recreate the "Rzeczpospolita from Sea to Sea".
      Many historians are sure that if Britain did for Wrangel what the United States did for Chiang Kai-shek in 1949, that is, it introduced a fleet into the Black Sea and took Perekop under the gunship’s gunship, the dream of “another Russia” on the “island Crimea "could materialize.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 May 2018 22: 57
        +2
        "In fact, the interventionists acted as insignificant forces," ///

        This is so, but they can be understood: the Entente is tired after a 4-year war. When Germany finally surrendered, "uhhh" - no one else wanted to fight.
        That left a lot of technology. And she delivered plentifully. But its White Guard generals could not dispose of effectively.
        Only Denikin had a military chance to defeat Trotsky. Denikin missed this chance in battles. He had few fighters, the hope was only for equipment: English tanks and planes. But there was no logistics at all: tanks and planes did not fall into decisive hot spots where they could bring victory.
        Kolchak contrasted the cruelties of the Reds with his cruelty. In military tactics, he was zero. It was a dead end and defeat.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 30 May 2018 08: 18
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          He had few fighters, the hope was only for equipment: English tanks and planes.

          What tanks are in the conditions of a mobile war of rebounding rebounds and the lack of positions that need to be broken?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 30 May 2018 08: 28
            +2
            The whole war was fought along the railways.
            The Reds actively used makeshift armored trains and
            troops threw lightning from front to
            front and from rear to front. Tanks could fight fine
            with armored trains and, especially, with infantry. If you could do it just as fast
            throw over the glands. With shells and fuel.
            Moreover, the tanks arrived with crews of British volunteers already equipped with World War II experience. There were cases when they were thrown on time - then the defeat in red in the battle was complete.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 30 May 2018 09: 14
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              the races actively used makeshift armored trains and
              troops threw lightning from front to
              front and from rear to front. Tanks could have been great fight
              with armored trains
              and, especially, with infantry.

              And where are they and how long to wait? How to deliver tanks to the place if the glands are red? Artillery fought with trains even better: both caliber and control are better.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Moreover, tanks arrived with already equipped crews english volunteers with World War experience.

              They acted mainly as instructors.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              then the defeat of the red in the battle was complete.

              This is yes.
      2. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 30 May 2018 12: 56
        +1
        Quote: RUSS
        if Britain did for Wrangel ... introduced a fleet into the Black Sea and took Perekop under the gunship’s sight,

        And she did something like that. True, not for Wrangel, but for Denikin. In April 1919, the English fleet hit the red in the vicinity of Kerch with all the power of artillery. The result is known.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  7. Ruudi 34
    Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 11: 49
    +3
    The "Church-Proto-Glorious-Black-Hundred" is vyser, not an article. It is better to silently envy the "red" who, instead of snotty emotions, took the bull by the horns ... and SOMETHING SURVIVED ALONG THE EMPTY PROMISE OF "PARADISE OF THE EARTH ..."
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 12: 27
      +4
      they staged a 20-year-old blood-red terror and then promised communism by 1980,
      follow yours and words too yes
      1. Ruudi 34
        Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 08: 36
        +2
        I do not idealize the “reds”, however much you would like to be convinced .. First of all, I praise them for their success in building the State. Which they still achieved directness in methods and dedication. It is selflessness and action. And not with hope for some kind of "divine providence" and with words about "humanity" ... Look at the modern Russian "government officials" .... stupid and inanimate eyes that flare up only at the sound of a crunch of notes. With a few exceptions, of course. Yes, they-SUCK ON YOUR PEOPLE.
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 07
          0
          there is nowhere to idealize below, for the most part until 1937 the red star was also upside down and went
          and almost all former communists in the past, and from the worst part
          1. Ruudi 34
            Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 15: 52
            0
            Gently, so we turn to the theme of the Jews hating "Holy Russia"? laughing
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 03
              0
              Is this a Christian symbol? to mine once, then I wonder if you don’t tell whose? in the USA it is at least white and not inverted
    2. Nikitin
      Nikitin 29 May 2018 13: 59
      +2
      Quote: Rudi 34
      Better silently envy the "red" which instead of snotty emotions, took the bull by the horns... and SOMETHING MADE IN ADDITION TO THE VOID PROMISE OF "EARTH PARADISE ..."


      judging by the results (91 years), not by the horns. hi
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 18: 18
        +2
        they are now slipping for what actually
    3. dSK
      dSK 29 May 2018 22: 23
      +2
      Quote: Rudi 34
      EMPTY PROMISES "EARTH'S PARADISE ..."

      I remember Nikita Sergeyevich promised in 1960 to create the "EARTH PARADISE" in 20 years, but something went wrong. How many did not study the history of the Russian Empire, didn’t see such a promise, who is this spoken?
  8. Seamaster
    Seamaster 29 May 2018 13: 00
    +6
    Sorry, uncle the author of the article, but where is the red help coverage?
    How many planes, tanks, armored cars, machine guns, guns, etc. were transferred by western countries to red?
    Which English / American / Japanese units participated in battles on the Red side?
    How many English / French / Japanese officers and generals were advisers in the Red Army?
    Not at all.
    But white broke off a robust design.
    And for free (see article) and for a piece of gold.
    Who planned what and dreamed - this is bullshit.
    But in the war, bread, ammunition and tobacco are in price.
    Red NOTHING of this broke off.
    But while fleeing from Murmansk, Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok, the whites and the interventionists had to export or burn huge military supplies.
    These are real facts.
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 13: 38
      +4
      C'mon, not even the White Poles broke off, on the contrary, they imposed a blockade
      and Armand Hammer, very red, "helped" and so for gold
      1. Seamaster
        Seamaster 29 May 2018 17: 49
        +4
        What about the blockade of the White Poles - is this a joke of humor?
        To repulse Tukhachevsky’s army in France, an 80-strong corps from the “French” Poles was formed, armed and transferred to Poland. He was under the command of French officers.
        The Polish army was fully armed again (instead of weapons abandoned during the rapid retreat from Kiev) by France and England, and not only rifle and artillery were received, but also armored cars and aircraft with crews.
        This is what the Bolsheviks did not take into account, for which they paid.
        And before that, they drove the Polish army from Kiev to the Vistula without much tension.
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 17: 56
          +2
          no, this is true, almost all Germans and other good neighbors did not miss, only a part of American pilots flew over
          they persecuted and then S. Budenny from the numerically inferior Polish cavalry, the ogreb and Tukhachevsky were deceived by the Polish cryptographers
          in general, no matter where the Reds came to Russia, they won because they took white families hostage, and generally local and shot them down if they didn’t give up, or simply didn’t give up the weapons that were, but it didn’t work with the Poles, the population left and got there themselves surrounded
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 18: 14
            +2
            but of those who surrendered, they still shot or somehow executed the other half or more of those who did not like
            Latvians preferred to stab with bayonets than shoot, the Chinese internationalists were very fond of skinning, or slowly cutting and doing cannibalism, as later in their home in Nanjing
          2. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 30 May 2018 13: 00
            +2
            Quote: YELLOWSTONE
            wherever the Reds in Russia would come, they would win because they took white families hostage, and generally local, and shot them down if they did not give up

            Neither whites, nor their families, nor the reds themselves often knew about this ...
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 13: 17
              0
              and then they even preferred not to tell their children about the Tsar’s Family even in a whisper
              1. Ruudi 34
                Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 15: 53
                +2
                Let's weep together? And take the portrait of the saint on the "Immortal Regiment" ...
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 04
                  0
                  I'm afraid you won’t find mutual understanding there, unless of course it will be in Russia
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 May 2018 23: 07
      0
      West, helped only white. This is unambiguous.
      The West (Entente) did not help Lenin and Trotsky.
      Then you can argue endlessly: who is better / worse - white or red.
      Who was more cruel, who lied more or was mistaken.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 May 2018 08: 26
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        West, helped only white. This is unambiguous.
        The West (Entente) did not help Lenin and Trotsky.

        unequivocally, the help of the West could not be compared with the stocks of the Russian Army and the factories that the Bolsheviks seized.
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 09: 14
          0
          Yes, he helped red more
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 30 May 2018 13: 01
            +1
            No one has helped the Reds as much as the Whites.
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 13: 20
              0
              international freemasonry helped all the same
              do not pour sugar
              1. Ruudi 34
                Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 16: 02
                +2
                YELLOWSTONE ..... Well, you, surprised ... "international massism ..." Excuse me, what class do you go to? Maybe you will go ... well .. look at airplanes and tanks? Look how pretty ... fellow
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 16
                  0
                  Well, Truman was a freemason, gave interesting interventions in newspapers
                  then German tanks and planes traveled to the USSR in American engine oil and shot American tungsten, really want to talk about this?
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 05
                0
                of course, and driven into collective farms, forcing those who survived to work for workdays
  9. Monarchist
    Monarchist 29 May 2018 16: 29
    +3
    "they did not create this army to defend Russia, but AGAINST RUSSIA" the author, here I agree with you. That Leib, that Moishe and other "Russian" revolutionaries, they put a banana on Russia.
    And some of our comrades breast-defended the internationalists, that is, the mercenaries of Freemasonry
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 29 May 2018 17: 57
      +6
      Well, these or not these internationalists not only gathered Raseyushka by 1921, profaned during 1917 by the true Russian Aryans of the Provisional Government, but they also did not frailly muddied inside the intervention countries.
      On October 25, 1917, neither the Ukraine, nor Poland, nor Finland, nor the Caucasus, nor Central Asia were subordinate to the Russian government to the “acceptance of affairs” by the Bolsheviks.
      And it was the "internationalists" who gathered them together.
      Fire and sword.
      Well, and communist ideas.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 May 2018 08: 27
        0
        Quote: Seamaster
        On October 25, 1917, neither the Ukraine, nor Poland, nor Finland, nor the Caucasus, nor Central Asia were subordinate to the Russian government to the “acceptance of affairs” by the Bolsheviks.

        Dumb, mossy already, lie.
        And it was the "internationalists" who gathered them together.

        I look at the map and DO NOT see the "meeting." And you?
        1. Seamaster
          Seamaster 30 May 2018 11: 29
          +1
          On the first point:
          1. Poland under the Germans, the Polish legion of Pilsudski formed by the Austrians, is fighting against the Russian army. It became the basis of the army of non-Polish Poland.
          2. Finland was virtually independent under the tsar, and by October 25.10.1917, XNUMX declared full independence.
          3. In Ukraine, the Central Council transfers under its command the "Ukrainianized" units of the Russian army. With the approval of the Provisional Government, by the way. At the talks in Brest, Ukraine was presented as a state independent of Russia, which gave the go-ahead to Germany’s occupation of Ukraine.
          4. In the Caucasus, the authorities of Georgia and Armenia are disarmed by echelons with Russian troops being withdrawn from Turkey.
          5. Central Asia then - today's Afghanistan today.
          You would not be scattered with words such as "false." Read more. Or are you not a reader, but a writer?
          In the second point - we look at the map.
          1 USSR = Russian Empire minus Poland, Baltic, Finland.
          2. The USSR and satellites - the empire from the Elbe to Pyongyang and the Kuril Islands (Pyongyang - this is in Korea - an explanation for writers).
          And all this was collected by the "internationalists."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 May 2018 12: 04
            0
            Quote: Seamaster
            2. Finland was virtually independent under the tsar, and by October 25.10.1917, XNUMX declared full independence.

            Lies in the first part and in the second part
            Quote: Seamaster
            3. In Ukraine, the Central Council transfers under its command the "Ukrainianized" units of the Russian army. With the approval of the Provisional Government, by the way. At the talks in Brest, Ukraine was presented as a state independent of Russia, which gave the go-ahead to Germany’s occupation of Ukraine.
            Lies - there was no approval by the VP for this, as well as the transfer of units under its command to the Rada.
            Quote: Seamaster
            At the talks in Brest, Ukraine was presented as a state independent of Russia, which gave the go-ahead to Germany’s occupation of Ukraine.

            Brest, remember, AFTER THE THIEF. And its result, like independent Ukraine, RECOGNIZED by the Bolsheviks.
            Quote: Seamaster
            4. In the Caucasus, the authoritiesrezalezhnyh Georgia and Armenia disarm echelons with Russian troops withdrawn from Turkey.

            This is all AFTER the Thief and independent Georgia and Armenia ..
            Quote: Seamaster
            . Central Asia then is today's Afghanistan today.

            No one disputed the power of the VP.
            Quote: Seamaster
            You would not scattered with words like "false". Read more. Or are you not a reader, but a writer?

            It must be respected, it is necessary! Find another word for your virtual reality.
            Quote: Seamaster
            1 USSR = Russian Empire minus Poland, Baltic, Finland.
            2. USSR and satellites - empire from Elba to Pyongyang and the Kuril Islands

            What did you stop? I will continue
            P. 3.1991. The remainder of Russia without Russian lands of Little Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. I-Russian Cross.
            And it's all-
            Quote: Seamaster
            gathered "internationalists".
            1. Ruudi 34
              Ruudi 34 30 May 2018 16: 13
              +2
              On the last point - 1991. Who signed the "Bialowieza Agreement"? Now is 2018 - the year - where are these "lost" lands? Where - they ask you? The "imperialist" is dumb. You still cannot master Siberia - people are fleeing ... and the one is the same ... You see the territories they lack ...
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 31 May 2018 02: 17
                +1
                Come, help ... yes bully
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 31 May 2018 08: 33
                0
                Quote: Rudi 34
                On the last point - 1991. Who signed the "Bialowieza Agreement"?

                Three members of the CPSU in the rank of leaders. Did not know?
                Quote: Rudi 34
                Now is 2018 - the year - where are these "lost" lands? Where - they ask you?

                What is the question? Look at the map.
                Quote: Rudi 34
                The "imperialist" is dumb.

                belay fool lol
                Quote: Rudi 34
                You still cannot master Siberia - people are fleeing .. and the same ... The territory they see is not enough ..

                There are many lands, there are not enough people, thanks to you Communists.
                And the Russian territory turned into a slander by you. And Donbass is fighting the monster that you spawned.
  10. Monarchist
    Monarchist 29 May 2018 16: 43
    +1
    After reading this article, I remembered the diva of the Old Man's angel “Beat the Reds until they turn white. Hit the Whites until they turn red” (“Adjutant His Excellency”). Lloyd George would probably also have signed up for this division?
    1. Ruudi 34
      Ruudi 34 29 May 2018 19: 06
      +3
      What then with the "Old Man Angels" was not to recall?
  11. Monarchist
    Monarchist 29 May 2018 17: 02
    +3
    [quote = Monarchist] "created this army not for the defense of Russia, but AGAINST RUSSIA" the author, here I agree with you. That Leib, that Moishe and other "Russian" revolutionaries, they put a banana on Russia.
    And some of our comrades breast-defended the internationalists, and simply mercenaries.
    Only ONE of the internationalists showed themselves as soldiers, they were more involved in executions. I will remind you from the history of the Civil War that the Chinese internationalists or some other units should prove themselves at the front, and their guard units should be up to a fig. The whole firing squad under the Cheka was from such "internationalists"
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 29 May 2018 18: 04
      +6
      I will remind you from the history of the Civil War that the Chinese internationalists or some other units should prove themselves at the front, and their guard units should be up to a fig. The whole firing squad under the Cheka was from such "internationalists"
      -------------------------------------------------
      -------------------------------------------------
      ------------
      You have a good memory - 100 years have passed, and you remember everything.
      And bring the numbers - how many Chinese fought in the Red Army and where did they come from?
      There were no flights from Beijing to Domodedovo then. There were, of course, "come in large numbers", but how many were there?
      But how many French and Greek divisions landed in southern Russia, how many English fought in the North, how many English monitors fought in the Northern Dvina, who organized the death camp on the island of Mudyug is widely known.
      How much has landed in the Far East - see article.
      And they all fought NOT on the side of the Reds.
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 18: 53
        +3
        there was a transsib and chinese gaster
        the interventionists were mainly concerned with preventing local from organizing themselves before the arrival of the Reds, who had no battles with them yes
        1. Seamaster
          Seamaster 29 May 2018 21: 13
          +5
          You read your Canadian newspapers less, and at least take a look at Vika (American).
          In the North, British troops actively supported the whites, even several monitors were overtaken by the Dvina.
          In Arkhangelsk, it happened that when I left the Polyus restaurant in the 80s, I liked to stroke the armor of the restaurant in the form of a monument to a captured English tank. Do not tell in this city about peaceful English soldiers - they will beat you.
          In the Far East, in battles with the Reds, the Japanese lost about 6000-7000 troops, the Americans - about 500, the Czechs - much more.
          You, my friend, are looking for suckers in Canada.
          I visited you in Halifax and Vancouver. Clean, full, boring ...
          And the faces of passers-by are like those of morons. It’s possible to frighten such people both with the skin stripped off and the woman in the “budennovka”.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 29 May 2018 21: 33
            +1
            and you’re wrapping something more in your “truth”,
            trophy - abandoned
            it turns out that composting is worse than that, they will make any person for you to pass by with this occupation (and do not tempt their patience) lol the interventionists likewise disarmed units, seized weapons from the population and engaged in terror with it if it was not disarmed, so he had nothing to meet with the Reds
            in St. Petersburg can beat for the fact that Peter the 1st homosexual, but it really is yes and they can beat the Urals if you insist on the contrary
            photo archives are full of baboons in Budennovka just like what they were doing in Yaroslavl just like in China
            1. Seamaster
              Seamaster 30 May 2018 15: 06
              0
              While in Canada, I didn’t punch anyone’s brains - I had my own business.
              Moreover, he was in Vancouver back in 1972 and talked with students at the local university. Good guys, intelligence at the level of the Soviet sixth grader. In the 90s he was in Montreal and Halifax, he did not notice any improvements.
              As for Peter the Great, he is white or red. Or are you, as a true liberal, making a kind of leap to the side?
              As for Yaroslavl, I would like to remind you that before the uprising of the Socialist-Revolutionaries there was quiet and peaceful, but during the uprising they dealt with the representatives of the Soviet authorities by monstrous methods. But before the red terror there was another 3 months.
              Well, and when the Reds again entered Yaroslavl after the fighting, then yes - the Communists had to uncomfortably stick out their eyes and hammer them with sticks.
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 31 May 2018 02: 09
                0
                it can be invisible to the person who wants it, or their method justifies itself
                there was no uprising, there was a provocation with the distribution of several revolvers and then the destruction of the Russian city with inhabitants, and besides the Chinese and other Mongolorids, Klimov used BOV
            2. Sanya Terek
              Sanya Terek 31 May 2018 18: 30
              0
              Quote: YELLOWSTONE
              but ... in St. Petersburg they can beat for the fact that Peter the 1st homosexual, but it really is ...

              Did he capitalize on you?
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 1 June 2018 16: 31
                0
                maybe in some life?
              2. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 1 June 2018 16: 46
                0
                or did the people run into the Cossacks with him even faster?
          2. Each other
            Each other 30 May 2018 12: 38
            +2
            I'm sorry, do the Americans and the Japanese know about the losses you claimed? laughing
            Do not share the "reliable" source? laughing
            "Why should they, Basurman, regret, write more!"
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 13: 23
              0
              Well, they had clashes with the locals, but usually they were not red
              It’s not known who revolutionized the German or British government
              1. Each other
                Each other 30 May 2018 14: 00
                +2
                Yes, the fact of the matter is that the combat losses among the Americans and Japanese were either from the Red Army or from the Red partisans. Romanovskaya massacre in the Far East, Shenkur battle in the north. But something with the numbers of losses, Seamaster has a lot of imagination. laughing The same American losses are an order of magnitude smaller. laughing
                And at the expense of "crazy, crazy German or English government" do not tell laughing
                Goebels would not have missed such a fact. laughing
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 14: 25
                  0
                  from local just partisans they had them, whom they tried to disarm before the arrival of the Reds
                  and such a fact was harmful to him, all the more there was no need to tell what Germany had already known about and almost everyone was quietly happy
                2. Seamaster
                  Seamaster 30 May 2018 15: 17
                  -1
                  For the loss of interventionists - see my post below.
                  He lived as a kid back in the 50s in the military town of Peschanka near Chita. In the forest, the mass grave of the murdered whites. Launched, the stone in the ground has gone halfway, bones are visible from under the stone.
                  The people didn’t love them — they worked hard in Siberia.
              2. Seamaster
                Seamaster 30 May 2018 15: 29
                0
                And what do you think?
                Germany: the empire was liquidated, the territory was cut down, reparations from Russia were received from Gulkin horseradish (Kolchak Russian zolotoshka squandered 10 times more), the Bolsheviks stirred up the revolution until the age of 23. Or rather, until the 33rd. Adik put things in order. Plus, the Bolsheviks nationalized all German junk in Russia and nullified mutual claims.
                England: the same for debt and nationalized property. They managed to steal a little while fleeing from Russia - only what fit into their pockets.
                Yes, mother Nicholas the 2nd stole family jewels and the wife of George the 6th did not hesitate to wear them.
                But the Bolsheviks organized Communist parties for them in the metropolis, dominions and colonies.
                Unequal exchange.
            2. Seamaster
              Seamaster 30 May 2018 15: 13
              -1
              Well, a lot of sources. For example, the article of the BBC is Russian-speaking, and naturally, with underestimated data - www.bbc.com/russian/russia/2012/10/121024/russia_
              intervation_history, and many others.
              I have a mistake on the loss of the Japanese - 1460 killed plus 600 dead.
              But the loss of the Americans underestimated - not 500, but 600.
              There, it turns out, the Canadians were noted (Yellostone NB!) - 600 killed, and the Australians.
              Google - there are a lot of materials on this topic.
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 15: 24
                0
                even bbs know what lies ... bully
                1. Seamaster
                  Seamaster 30 May 2018 20: 55
                  0
                  The commies are lying, the BBC is lying, the Putiners are lying .......
                  One Yellowstone all in white and white.
                  Then a reference to your sources, pzhlst.
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 31 May 2018 02: 10
                    0
                    and one Seamaster is smarter than all Canadians
                    there are links even on this site and about Yaroslavl
              2. Each other
                Each other 30 May 2018 16: 40
                0
                Tales about 600 killed Americans in the Far East tell your children. laughing you are our google laughing There were fewer of them with people who died from diseases. laughing
                A nonsense like that red partisan who defeated 700 Americans in his memoirs laughing It will be necessary to publish your stories on the Internet on the page "Polar Bears". Let them honor and neigh laughing
                Very reminiscent of fairy tales about three times "destroyed" Russian divisions in Ukraine. The only difference is that you are four times more "killed" Americans wink
                1. Seamaster
                  Seamaster 30 May 2018 20: 58
                  -1
                  Well, why google?
                  Articles of the BBC Corporation.
                  Who then to believe?
                  A - Solzhenitsyn and Suvorov! Have they also written on this subject?
                  1. Each other
                    Each other 31 May 2018 08: 14
                    0
                    But you don’t know how to use more reliable sources, do I understand correctly? .
                    By the way, you could not even read this article. laughing
                    The number of 500 you have turned into 600. laughing What, you can’t squint? laughing
                    1. Seamaster
                      Seamaster 31 May 2018 13: 19
                      -1
                      The Air Force is not a source, but where is your source?
                      Accuse me of nonsense (500 or 600 pindo-zhmura), and in your previous post you write that there are MUCH fewer of them - nonsense MANY times stronger than mine?
                      1. Each other
                        Each other 1 June 2018 10: 06
                        -1
                        Firstly, 48 people were killed by Americans in the Far East (36 in battles with the Bolsheviks (Romanovskaya massacre, etc.). And 12 in battles with the Cossacks). laughing How many times is it less than 600? smile There are already not even times. There is already a difference in orders. laughing Secondly, my sources are not your BBC c article, with stories about American soldiers remaining to live in the Far East. And the recollections of the Americans themselves participating in the intervention.
                        The Americans relate to the memory of their colleagues.
                        more scrupulous than in Russia. There are associations of regiments, for example 31 Infantry. The one that was based in Vladivostok and Harbin. http://www.31stinfantry.org. So there they have every dead and wounded missing accounted for. laughing Not like your fabulous 500 or 600 killed. Here, for example, the loss lists of company "A" 339 Infantry:
                        As you can see, these are very accurate data for the entire time of the Intervention. And there is such a document for each unit. By the way, this document directly refutes your other nonsense that the Americans did not fight in the North. As you can see, for many, the status of KIA (Killed in action) is a classification commonly used by the US Army to describe the death of its troops from enemy hostile actions. Classification is not assigned to incidents, accidents and other events of a non-hostile or non-terrorist nature.
  12. Each other
    Each other 30 May 2018 12: 36
    0
    I apologize, but what did the author of the post on geography at the school have? Japan by whose classification is the country of the West?
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 30 May 2018 21: 03
      -1
      If this is a pebble in my garden, then I write about the loss of INTERVENTS.
      And from which side they came - the second thing.
      If this is not for me - sorry.
  13. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 30 May 2018 14: 51
    +1
    YELLOWSTONE,
    So I say what they did, only your esteemed empire preferred to buy them in Europe, instead of arranging the flow of the Cherepanovs locomotive. And about those 80%, I’m already tired of you calculating math here request .
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 15: 27
      0
      Russia had its own steam engines and many
      so me too, go ask around when and where the railway came from, or you saw some numbers you liked and let's gladly not respect the empire. Not your own - no need, everything, we’ll cross out you personally. yes
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 May 2018 15: 39
        0
        Quote: YELLOWSTONE
        otherwise you’ve seen the numbers you liked and let's not respect the empire. Not your own - no need, everything, we’ll cross out you personally.

        And this is the fifth time I am writing to you that you, in addition to 80%, have not provided me with a single digital signature. And I wrote about the Cherepanovs locomotives, which they had done before the very first railway station was built in the Republic of Ingushetia, but for some reason the Aglitsky preferred this train. And I’m more reluctant to argue with you, you have no arguments at all.
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 30 May 2018 16: 06
          0
          but they told you to correct, you can still see the atlas of railways for different years lol
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 30 May 2018 18: 25
            0
            Well, lay out these atlases, I’m more for you here and I won’t scratch my finger.
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 31 May 2018 02: 12
              0
              look for them yourself
              and in Mordovia or the EAO know who in the United States, in addition to Chinese workers, built railways?
  14. Each other
    Each other 30 May 2018 17: 03
    0
    Quote: Seamaster
    Well, a lot of sources. For example, the article of the BBC is Russian-speaking, and naturally, with underestimated data - www.bbc.com/russian/russia/2012/10/121024/russia_
    intervation_history, and many others.
    I have a mistake on the loss of the Japanese - 1460 killed plus 600 dead.
    But the loss of the Americans underestimated - not 500, but 600.
    There, it turns out, the Canadians were noted (Yellostone NB!) - 600 killed, and the Australians.
    Google - there are a lot of materials on this topic.


    Poor Australians. For "educated" Russians, they are now "Americans" what
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 30 May 2018 20: 49
      -1
      Are you trying to poke fun?
      In the article and in my post it is indicated - 600 Americans were killed.
      About the Australians it is said only about their participation.
      Therefore, the last line of your post about "educated" Russians is perplexing.
      1. Each other
        Each other 31 May 2018 08: 21
        0
        600 killed Americans is your fantasy. Even the BBC is nothing less than a visionary, and even limited to a round figure of 500 people losses. wink Losses, not killed. Without an indication of who was killed, who died of illnesses (you probably haven’t even heard of such a Spanish disease), who was injured. And you not only killed everyone, but also threw a hundred more laughing laughing And you claimed that they all died in the Far East. By the way, Polars Bears 31 infantry laughed for a long time, recognizing your "reliable" numbers of their losses. laughing especially in the context of the argument with Czech bones. laughing
        I'm not talking about the "reliability" of historical data from a BBC article / laughing
        1. Seamaster
          Seamaster 31 May 2018 13: 24
          -1
          Your position is clear: the BBC is nobody, the Polas Bears 31 is the ultimate truth.
          By the way, in the North, the Americans did not participate in the battles.
          There the English infantry, artillery, tankmen, aviators and sailors excelled.
          And in the protection of concentration camps, in particular, on the island of Mudyug.
          1. Each other
            Each other 31 May 2018 13: 57
            0
            What are you ??? laughing And the participation of 339 infantry regiment in the battles on the Zheleznodorozhny (48 killed), Dvina and Onega fronts, everyone dreamed of. Or 27 dead and missing Americans from the same 339 infantry in the so-called Shenkur operation is all someone's fantasies? laughing Or do you have Dvina, Onega is the Far East? wink
            I highly recommend reading not the BBC or Wikipedia, but for example the "M" Company 339th infantry in North Russia ". Moore, Joel Roscoe, wink
            And one hell, the Americans lost 144 people killed in the north, 48 in the Far East (36 in battles with the Bolsheviks, 12 in battles with the Cossacks). laughing
            Do you even know what is hiding under the name 31th Regiment Polar Bears? laughing
  15. Ranxackiran
    Ranxackiran 5 June 2018 10: 59
    0
    Hmm, one of the worst pages in the history of Russia (given that before the bourgeois revolution, Russia had the title of Empire) In the collapse of the Russian Empire, everyone and everyone took part
    However, already in 1951, the former RSFSR was again not only the main opponent of Europe, but also the United States.
    But less than 40 years later, the great USSR, now comparable to the NATO bloc, was destroyed, largely with the help of Friends from Europe and the United States.
    Russia has always been an “Unwanted Element” in the eyes of Europeans, and it’s a pity that such sentiments go through the “Brotherly” countries once, such as: Ukraine, Belarus ...