Military Review

How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War

120
100 years ago, in February 1918, the Red Army won the first major victories in southern Russia. As a result of the two-month bloody battles, the Soviet troops cleared of the White and White Cossack Don. Also, Soviet troops won up over the forces of the Central Rada, February 8 1918, taking Kiev.


General situation

The fronts of the Civil War in their usual, finished form did not appear immediately. Even before October, on the ground, especially in national suburbs, national “governments” appeared with their military formations, which set a course for “autonomy”. After the Bolsheviks took power in Petrograd and Moscow, in a number of areas, both the forces of counter-revolution and the forces supporting the socialist revolution are becoming established. For example, on the Don, on the one hand, there was a large proletariat, nonresident peasantry, virtually powerless, Cossack front-line veterans who accepted the left-wing ideas and revolutionary soldiers, and on the other hand large landowners (Cossack generals and officers) and Cossack-kulaks who used centuries privileges, also came here "white" to create a counter-revolutionary army. They start fighting with each other. The final folding of the fronts of the Civil War will occur later, with the beginning of a large-scale external intervention. Invaders will support one or another of the counter-revolutionary forces - the whites, the White Cossacks, the nationalists, so that they become their striking force in the struggle against the Bolsheviks (the Reds).

Gradually, against the general background of minor clashes of local significance, larger military events and operations will appear. At this time, military operations were mainly associated with the main directions, usually coinciding with the directions of through railway lines. The military historian N. Ye. Kakurin called this period of the Civil War a period of “echelon war” (“How the revolution fought”). Both sides had at this time a small number of active bayonets and sabers, they were poorly organized, it tied them to the lines of railways: "... the struggle was almost exclusively" echelon "character." The small number of troops, the echelon nature of the war, with great mobility, maneuverability created a picture of unusual diversity and diversity. The “Army” of several hundred people, traveling around in echelons, quickly and unexpectedly concentrated on important areas and solved strategic tasks in a short time.

The strategic operations of the "echelon war" were reduced by the counter-revolutionary forces to the organization of "armies" and the expansion of space, to control communications and resources, from the revolutionary forces - to expand and consolidate the territory under Soviet control and bypass the enemy forces to put out the fire at the initial stage.

Counterrevolution on the Don

On the Don, counterrevolutionary forces were led by the Don government, Ataman A. M. Kaledin. General Kaledin, who was removed from the command of the 8 Army, for not accepting the February Revolution and refusing to comply with the Provisional Government's order to democratize the troops, arrived at the Don. At the end of May, Kaledin took part in the work of the Don Military Circle and, against his will, yielding to the persuasion of the Cossack public, agreed to be elected a military ataman.

The confrontation between the central government and the Don began under the Provisional Government, as well as the formation on the spot of several centers of power. So, in May 1917, the Regional Congress of Peasants decided to abolish private ownership of land, however, the Don Army Circle declared the lands of the Don "historical property of the Cossacks ”and decided to recall the Cossacks from the apparatus of the Provisional Government and from the Soviets. This led to an intensification of rivalry between the two power structures - the Troops Government and the Soviets of Workers, Soldiers, Peasants and Cossack Deputies. On September 1, 1917, the Minister of War of the Provisional Government A.I. Verkhovsky ordered the arrest of Kaledin for involvement in the Kornilov rebellion, but the Don government refused to comply with the order. As a result, A.F. Kerensky conceded and canceled the arrest order.

After October, the situation became even more acute. In the cities, especially in Rostov and Taganrog, the socialist parties prevailed, with distrust of the Cossack government. The Mensheviks numerically prevailed in all the dumas of the Don Region, the central bureaus of trade unions and in many Soviets. They were inferior to the Social Revolutionaries and Bolsheviks. Moderate social democrats did not want to support the Soviet government, as they continued to consider the transition to socialism in Russia premature. On the other hand, they feared the Cadet-Kaledin dictatorship. Therefore, the Mensheviks called on their organizations to play the role of a "third force".

Ataman Kaledin declared the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks criminal. The Don government "temporarily, until the restoration of the power of the Provisional Government and order in Russia, ... assumed the fullness of the executive state power in the Don region". Kaledin invited members of the Provisional Government to Novocherkassk to organize the struggle against the Bolsheviks and is trying to establish control over the Don Region. October 26 (November 8) 1917, while in Rostov the Council tried to take power into their own hands, Kaledin imposed martial law in the coal-mining region of the region, sending Cossacks there. 2 (15) November Kaledin issued an order to impose martial law in the entire Don region. In all industrial centers military units were deployed. The Soviets were liquidated, the workers' organizations were closed, their activists were dismissed from their jobs and were expelled with their families outside the region. 7 (20) November Ataman Kaledin, realizing that the time of the Provisional Government was irretrievably gone, appealed to the population of the Don region with the statement that the Military Government does not recognize the Bolshevik government, and therefore the region is proclaimed independent before the formation of the legitimate Russian government.

How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War

Troops Ataman of the Don Cossack Area, cavalry general Alexei Kaledin

At the same time, the Don started forming the nucleus of the future White Army (For more information, see: How to create a volunteer army; How the battle for the Don began). 2 (15) November, General MV Alekseev arrived in Novocherkassk from Petrograd. Kaledin formally refused the request to “give shelter to the Russian officers,” not wanting to aggravate relations with the Cossacks, who were returning home from the front en masse and generally supported left-wing ideas, wanted peace, enough to swallow the vicissitudes of war. But in general, the ataman closed his eyes to creating the backbone of the white army and informally supported this process. Alekseev is actively forming his organization (“Alekseev organization”). 4 (17) November created the first military unit - Consolidated Officer Company. Then formed the Junker battalion, the Summary Mikhailovsko-Konstantinovskaya battery and other parts.

Most of the Cossacks did not want to fight and sympathized with the Bolsheviks, so Kaledin had to turn to Alekseev when the Bolshevik uprising began on November 25 (December 8) in Rostov. After several days of stubborn fighting, by December 2 (15), Rostov was freed from the Reds. Kaledins and Alekseevs also captured Taganrog and a significant part of the Donbass.

In December, General L. G. Kornilov arrived in Novocherkassk. The general originally planned to go to the Volga region and further to Siberia to head there counter-revolutionary forces. But he was persuaded to remain in the south of Russia, despite disagreements with General Alekseev. It was a matter of financing whites and their support from the Entente. In the second half of December, at a meeting of white generals with delegates of the Right Center, an agreement was reached on the division of powers between the Kaledin-Alekseev-Kornilov triumvirate. Triumvirat became the head of the Don Civil Council, created to lead the White movement throughout the territory of the former Russian Empire and claim the role of the All-Russian government. The countries of the Entente entered into contact with him, sending their representatives to Novocherkassk.


Supreme Head of the Volunteer Army M. V. Alekseev

20 December 1917 (2 January 1918) Ataman Kaledin officially authorized the formation of volunteer units on the territory of the Don Region. Officially, the creation of the “Volunteer Army” and the opening of a record in it was announced on 24 December 1917 of the year (January 6 1918). 25 December 1917 of the Year (January 7 1918 of the Year), it was announced that General Kornilov assumed the post of Army Commander, who was called Volunteer by his initiative. As a result, Alekseev remained the leader of the army (political leadership and finance were behind him), Kornilov commander-in-chief, General A.S. Lukomsky — chief of staff, General A.I. Denikin — chief of the 1 division. Lieutenant General S.L. Markov, who served as chief of staff of the 1 Division and commander of the 1 Officer Regiment formed by him and received his own patronage after Markov’s death, became the “Kornilov’s Spire”.

It is worth noting that, given the position of most of the Cossacks, the white, counter-revolutionary forces could not create a large army on the Don. Kaledin failed to raise the front-line Cossacks to fight the Soviet government. The Cossacks, returning from the front, overwhelmingly went home and did not want to fight. Moreover, many of them supported the first decrees of the Soviet government. Among the front-line Cossacks, the idea of ​​"neutrality" in relation to Soviet power was widely adopted. The Bolsheviks, for their part, sought to use this hesitant mood of ordinary Cossacks, receiving support from the so-called. "Labor Cossacks". Front-line Cossacks seized power in the villages and did not support the anti-revolutionary course of the Don government.

Eventually The "neutrality" of the Cossacks prevented Kaledin, Alekseev and Kornilov from forming on Don a truly numerous army of volunteers and Cossacks. The volunteer army was perceived by the Cossacks as a force that encroached upon their autonomy and which led to a clash with the central Soviet authorities. In addition, the Don government also did not become a strong, authoritative power, it was torn apart by contradictions. Many of its members hoped to “come to terms” with the local revolutionary institutions and their loyalty towards the Soviet government to reconcile Red Petrograd with Don and avoid hostilities. As a result, only about 5 thousand fighters entered the Volunteer Army.


Volunteer army. January 1918 of the year

The counter-revolutionary nationalist government of Ukraine

In Kiev, after the February revolution, the Central Rada entered the arena of political life. During this period, two opinions prevailed among the Ukrainian intelligentsia regarding the future of Ukraine (Little Russia). Supporters of independence (independent), led by N. Mikhnovsky, advocated the immediate declaration of independence. Autonomists (V. Vinnichenko, D. Doroshenko and their supporters from the Association of Ukrainian Progressists) saw Ukraine as an autonomous republic in a federation with Russia.

In this case, it must be remembered that the overwhelming majority of the population of Little Russia (Little Russians, Southern Rus, Rusyns, etc.) did not consider themselves to be “Ukrainians” at that time. The word "Ukraine-Ukraine" originally meant the outskirts of the Commonwealth and Muscovy. “Ukrainian Chimera” - the idea of ​​the existence of an “ancient Ukrainian people”, separate from the Russians, was created in the ideological centers of the Vatican, Poland, Austria-Hungary and Germany (this inheritance was later adopted in England and the USA). The goal is the dismemberment of a single super-ethnos of the Rus (Russian people), the bleeding of the Russians with the Russians (the future “Ukrainians”), the weakening of the passionate, demographic and resource potential of the Russian civilization and the people. With the subsequent assimilation of "Ukrainians" (ethnographic material for refreshing the blood of Americans, Canadians, French, etc.), transcoding them into the "cannon fodder" of the West, creating permanent enemies of the Russians who remained. Previously, a similar program was worked out on the Polish-glades.

At the beginning of the 20th century, only a handful of marginal nationalist intelligentsia considered themselves “Ukrainians”. The rest of the inhabitants of the Ukraine, Ukraine were ordinary Russian, who had their own territorial, linguistic and everyday characteristics. For example, the Cossacks of the Don, Kuban, Orenburg, Siberia, the Pomors in the North, the Siberians, etc. had the same features. And even earlier the residents of Ryazan, Tver, Moscow, Novgorod, Pskov, etc. had the same features. But everything they were representatives of one Russian super-ethnos, and not separate ethnic groups, ethnic groups.

Now a handful of national separatists had the opportunity to spread their views to most of the population in a vast region. They got this opportunity only because of the beginning of the Troubles in Russia. Otherwise, the Ukrainian nationalists would have remained on the sidelines of the social and political life of Little Russia. Besides, on the nationalists relied on as the powers of the German bloc, and the Entente, who cherished plans for the dismemberment and seizure of the territories of Russia, the solution of the "Russian question" - the exclusion of the Russian civilization and the people from the Great Game.

4 (17) March 1917, the creation of the Ukrainian Central Council was announced. In her welcoming telegram addressed to the head of the Provisional Government, Prince Lvov and Minister of Justice Kerensky, from 4 (17) in March, and in the “Appeal to the Ukrainian people” in March, Central Rada declared support for the Provisional Government. In a welcoming telegram, in particular, gratitude was expressed for caring about the national interests of Ukrainians and the hope that “the time for the complete fulfillment of our long-standing aspirations for a free federation of free peoples is not far away”. 9 (22) March, the election of the leadership of the Central Council. The recognized leader of the Ukrainians, Professor Mikhail Hrushevsky, one of the leaders of the Ukrainian Progressives Association, who was serving a link in Moscow at that time, was elected in absentia as chairman of the UCR. He was temporarily replaced by V. Naumenko, and D. Antonovich and D. Doroshenko were elected vice-chairmen.

It should be noted that The Central Council was formed without prior arrangement by persons who declared themselves “deputies” from groups, circles and small organizations that had emerged from the revolutionary wave, who had declared themselves parties. Thus, the population of Little Russia did not in the slightest degree represent the CR and was an institution that was completely arbitrary. Ukrainian nationalists took advantage of the turmoil and chaos that began in Russia to declare themselves power.

With the arrival of Grushevskogo Central Rada launched an active activity, with the aim of forming Ukrainian statehood and gaining independence by Ukraine. That is, the Ukrainian nationalists acted as one of the detachments for the collapse of historical Russia, contributing to the development of unrest and chaos in the territory of the former Russian Empire. "Ukrainian Chimera" - as a state and a people - had no historical, state or national roots, therefore, its creation led to a number of serious problems, aggravating the general confusion.

The Ukrainian Social Democrats and the Ukrainian Social Revolutionaries made up the majority in the CR. Their goal was to form the national-territorial autonomy of Ukraine in Russia, which was later supposed to be transformed into a treaty federation. At the same time, Ukraine was to receive maximum autonomy, including with its own delegation at a future peace conference, and with its army. In the Ukraine at that time there were other centers of power. The provisional government in Kiev was represented by the provincial commissariat. The actual power in their areas and on the ground was held by the Soviets of workers, peasants and soldiers. Thus, in the Kiev Council of Workers' Deputies, Menshevik leaders initially dominated, but soon the Bolsheviks began to play the leading role in it.

6 — 8 (19 — 21) On April 1917, the All-Ukrainian National Congress was held. As a result, the process of forming the Central Rada was completed. The delegates to the congress elected a new composition of the Central Rada and a new Presidium of the UCR. Hrushevsky was re-elected head of the UCR, S. A. Efremov and V. K. Vinnichenko became his deputies. They also headed the legislative and executive body of the 20 man - the Central Rada Committee (later called Malaya Rada). The resolution of the congress stated: "In accordance with the historical traditions and modern real needs of the Ukrainian people, the congress recognizes that only the national-territorial autonomy of Ukraine is able to satisfy the aspirations of our people and all other peoples living on Ukrainian soil." The resolution recognized that the main problems facing the country can be discussed and solved only by the Constituent Assembly. However, there was a requirement that “except for representatives of the warring powers, and representatives of the peoples on whose territory the war is taking place, including Ukraine,” took part in the future peace conference, which indicated a desire to turn Ukraine into a subject of international law.


Ukrainian politician Vladimir Kirillovich Vinnichenko

The decisive demand for “the immediate proclamation by a special act of the principle of national-territorial autonomy” was also contained in the decisions of the First All-Ukrainian Military Congress, which took place in May 1917, on the initiative of a new socio-political organization - the Ukrainian Military Club named after Hetman Pavel Polubotka, led by N. Mikhnovsky. The goal of the Ukrainian Military Club was to Ukrainize military units deployed on the territory of Ukraine and create the Ukrainian army. The military congress called for the immediate appointment of the Minister for Ukrainian Affairs under the Provisional Government, the reorganization of the army according to the national-territorial principle, the formation of the Ukrainian national army, as well as the "Ukrainianization" of the Black Sea fleet and section of the Baltic Fleet. That is, the arrogance of Ukrainian nationalists grew as Russia decomposed. True, in general, the position of the "autonomists" this time still won.

Based on the resolutions of the congresses, the Rada drew up a special memorandum to the Provisional Government. The Provisional Government was expected to have a “principled attitude of goodwill” towards the slogan of autonomy. Requirements were put forward: the participation of "representatives of the Ukrainian people" in the international discussion of the "Ukrainian issue"; proposed to appoint a “special commissioner” for Ukraine’s affairs; to raise the fighting efficiency and restore discipline, it was proposed to single out the Ukrainians into separate military units both in the rear and at the front. It was actually the main step towards the creation of a separate army, that is, an independent state. In addition, it was envisaged to extend the Ukrainization of the elementary school to the secondary and higher education, to carry out the Ukrainization of the administrative apparatus, the amnesty or the rehabilitation of the repressed persons of Ukrainian nationality. At the same time subsidize the Ukrainian government structures from the center. That is, to conduct the “Ukrainization” of Little Russia at the expense of the Russians themselves. Very Jesuit move.

16 (29) May, a delegation of the UCR headed by Vinnichenko and Efremov headed for Petrograd. The UCR Memorandum was considered at the meeting of the Legal Meeting of the Provisional Government, however, no clear, precise decision was made regarding the claims submitted. The provisional government, as usual, preferred to wait passively for subsequent events. The revolutionary revolutionaries, having destroyed the weak, in their opinion, royal power, turned out to be complete nonentities in the sphere of foreign and domestic policy.

The weakness and passivity of the Provisional Government pushed the CR to take more decisive action. 3 (16) June, the government reported on the "negative decision on the issuance of the act of autonomy of Ukraine." On the same day, at a general meeting of the Central Committee, it was decided to appeal to the people with an appeal "to organize and proceed to the immediate laying of the foundations of an autonomous system in Ukraine."

The 5 (18) of June in Kiev opened the 2-th All-Ukrainian military congress, convened contrary to the ban of the Minister of War A. Kerensky (ignored). The congress was held in the spirit of the complete victory of Ukrainian separatism. Speaking to the participants of the 7 congress (20) of June, Vinnichenko made it clear that the slogan of the autonomy of Ukraine within Russia, the rejection of violent measures in defense of national demands - these are only temporary, tactical moves. 10 (23) of June, at the meeting of the Central Rada Committee, the First Universal was adopted and announced at the military congress on the same day, proclaiming unilaterally the national-territorial autonomy of Ukraine within Russia. The legislature of the autonomy was declared the National Ukrainian Assembly (Sejm), elected by universal equal, direct, secret ballot. The decisions of the Seimas received priority over the decisions of the future All-Russian Constituent Assembly. The CR took responsibility for the current state of affairs in Ukraine, and additional charges from the population of Ukraine were introduced to ensure its activities. In addition, it was decided to create a national-territorial army.

16 (29) June, the Central Council established the General Secretariat - the executive body. Vinnichenko was elected chairman (prime minister) of the General Secretariat (government). S. Petliura took the post of Secretary General for Military Affairs. The General Secretariat adopted the Declaration, in which the Central Committee was named the highest not only the executive, but also the legislative body of the entire organized Ukrainian people.

On June 28 (July 11), a delegation of the Provisional Government, composed of A. Kerensky, I. Tsereteli, M. Tereshchenko, arrived in Kiev with the goal of establishing relations with the Central Rada. The Provisional Government made concessions: they did not object to the autonomy of Ukraine, but the Constituent Assembly should have finally decided the issue. The government also recognized the General Secretariat as the highest regulatory body of Ukraine, and reported that it would favorably consider the drafting of a national-political statute of Ukraine by the Ukrainian Rada. In response, the CR also lowered the tone and 3 (16) July released the Second Universal, in which it was stated that "we, the Central Council, ... always stood for not separating Ukraine from Russia." The General Secretariat was declared "the body of the Provisional Government", etc. In response, the radicals raised an uprising (Revolt of the Polubotkovets), but they quickly suppressed it.


Chairman of the Ukrainian Central Council, historian Mikhail Sergeevich Hrushevsky

Independence declaration

In mid-July, the Ukrainian delegation arrived in Petrograd for approval by the Provisional Government of the composition of the General Secretariat and the Statute of Higher Management of Ukraine (in the final version - the Statute of the General Secretariat). The Central Council was recognized by the body of the revolutionary democracy of all peoples of Ukraine, its goal is the final introduction of the autonomy of Ukraine, the preparation of the All-Ukrainian and All-Russian constituent assemblies. The General Secretariat was declared the highest authority to which all local authorities must comply. It included the creation of a board of general secretaries from 14, whose authority extended to all areas, with the exception of international relations. The Interim Government retained only the functions of approving the composition of the General Secretariat, the bills adopted by the Rada and its financial requests. All the laws of the Provisional Government were deprived of direct action - they could enter into force only after they were published in the Ukrainian government newsletter in the Ukrainian language.

The Provisional Government rejected the Statute and 4 (17) of August replaced it with the Provisional Instruction to the General Secretariat of the Provisional Government in Ukraine. The general secretariat turned into a local body of the Provisional Government, its eligibility extended only to five of the nine Ukrainian provinces claimed by the CR (Kiev, Volyn, Podolsk, Poltava and Chernihiv (without four northern counties). The number of secretaries-general decreased to seven - the secretariats were eliminated military, food, court cases, communications, postal and telegraphs. Quotas were introduced based on nationality: at least three of the seven secretaries-general require axis to appoint persons who do not belong to Ukrainian nationality. It is clear that the Ukrainian separatists did not like it. .

It should be remembered that the course of the Ukrainian separatists who usurped power was still not popular among the people. So, July 23 (August 5) in Ukraine held elections to the city government bodies. Supporters of the independence of Ukraine they completely failed, not getting a single place (!); All-Russian parties received 870 seats, federalists - 128. Thus, if further events were going along the lines of traditional democratic elections, the Ukrainian national separatists would have no chance of remaining in power. The overwhelming majority of the South-West Russian population of Little Russia did not want any “separatism” and “Ukrainization”.

The CR was not a full-fledged state body, but was only a kind of social institution, which, however, very skillfully used the all-Russian confusion, the passivity of the Provisional Government, and consistently went towards its goal (the collapse of Russia into parts). There was no real power and the General Secretariat. Government agencies ignored him, his activities were not funded, and taxes, as before, went to the Russian treasury.

The state meeting in Moscow, held at the initiative of the Provisional Government in August, was boycotted by the Central Committee. After the insurrection, Kornilov Rada announced that in Ukraine the only legitimate authority was the CR and the Secretary General.

After the October Revolution, the CR went into a tactical alliance with the Kiev Bolsheviks in order to prevent the transfer of loyal government troops from the South-Western Front to Petrograd. However, further actions of the Rada led to a rupture. Outraged, the Bolsheviks left the Regional Committee and the Small Council. The command of the Kiev Military District, which retained the military power with the consent of Malaya Rada, with the help of the loyal parts of the Provisional Government, smashed the premises of the city Soviet of Workers' Deputies, which caused a Bolshevik uprising in Kiev. The CR dragged loyal units to Kiev, including transferring troops from the front. Within a few days the Bolsheviks were driven out of the city.

Ukrainian separatists got the opportunity to extend their power. The General Secretariat took over the affairs of the military, food and communications. The CR extended the authority of the General Secretariat to Kherson, Yekaterinoslav, Kharkiv, Kholmsk and partially Tauride, Kursk and Voronezh provinces. 6 (19) of November, the Ukrainian representatives sent to the Headquarters agreed with the Chief Chief NN Dukhonin on the issue of re-forming front-line units in order to create a Ukrainian army based on ethnicity and territoriality.

7 (20) of November by the decision of the Minor Rada, the Third Universal was adopted on an emergency basis, which proclaimed the creation of the Ukrainian People's Republic (UNR) in federal connection with the Russian Republic. It was announced about the inclusion in the UNR of the territories, the majority of whose population are "Ukrainians": Kiev, Volyn, Podolsk, Kherson, Chernihiv, Poltava, Kharkov, Ekaterinoslav provinces and counties of Northern Tavria (without Crimea). From the point of view of joining parts of the Kursk, Kholmsk, Voronezh and neighboring provinces and regions with the majority of the “Ukrainian” population, the final determination of the boundaries of the UPR was to take place “by agreement of the organized will of the peoples”.


Pribotkovtsy during a demonstration on the Day of the holiday of revolution

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
Who incited the Civil War
White fought for the interests of the West
Anti-Russian and anti-state white project
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  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich 20 February 2018 06: 49
    +12
    As a result of the two-month bloody battles Soviet troops cleared the white and white Cossacks of the Don. Also, Soviet troops defeated the forces of the Central Council, taking Kiev on February 8, 1918.

    This is what the October Revolution and the dispersal of the Constituent Assembly led to: bloody battles
    , i.e. to the civil war.
    They promised a "world without annexations and indemnities", and gave a fratricidal war with victims greater than in the WWII and the sale of a third of Russia to the invaders.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 08: 57
      +15
      Olgovich Today, 06: 49 New
      This is what the October Revolution and the dispersal of the Constituent Assembly led to: bloody battles
      Twenty five again. Zadolbali you with your insanity. The coup was in February, the constituent assembly is a meaningless bunch of worthless balabol. They did not represent any people, otherwise the people would go for the constituent assembly, and not for the Bolsheviks. If olgovich had ****, then he would be a man ... laughing
      No matter how much you try to shove the unedited here, nothing will come of it. The story is what it is, and not one that was born and will not die in your absolutely sick subconscious.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 09: 09
        +8
        Dear Varyag, I understand that you want to justify the Bolsheviks with all the fibers of your soul (of which you are obviously pretty sympathetic), but ... please, have the courage to face the truth — there were no open battles before the Bolsheviks came to power. The Provisional Government, for all its shortcomings, sought to resolve the contradictions through negotiations, rather than exterminating the opposite side. And the fact that the Civil War, which began after the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks and the violent dispersal of the DC, on which just the people had hoped for a peaceful resolution of the issue of the transfer of power and state structure, lasted another whole 4 (!) Years, which proves that the people are just -so and did not eager to support the Bolsheviks. Otherwise, the war would have ended by the end of 1918 ...
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 09: 24
          +12
          Not respected Teterin, do not pass off your lies as truth. Yes, the fighting began with the advent of the Bolsheviks, it really is true, BUT ... And here begins the clever manipulation of facts and the substitution of concepts, or more simply, your impudent and undisguised lie. The battles did not start red, they did not need this war for nothing. They picked up a power that just lay underfoot. Your liberal provisional government has nothing to do with anything but language. As a result, by the summer of 1917 the country practically did not exist and this is a confirmed fact. If your government was at least something, then it would not have allowed it to be so easily overthrown. But in the end, there was no one even to defend him, except for a company of junkers and a woman’s battalion.
          But your white-bellied unleashed a civil war, and even invited the invaders here. Before the second flood, you can try to hang your noodles on my ears, about the "noble" white-bellied and bloody red ones, I have your feces on the side. The facts will remain facts and you will never wash the black crow to white and terror, and the civil war unleashed by the whites you adore. But in fact the traitors of their homeland. The real officers served with the Reds, and were not the litter of the Entente.
          You can continue your bowel movements, I repeat, I have on your side your stormy fecal fantasies. laughing
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 10: 11
            +8
            Varangian, you are an amazing person. Not only do you distort facts for the sake of your views, but also do not know how to communicate without insults. As I understand from your profile and posts, you are an officer. Then I do not understand the reasons why you dishonor the honor of the uniform, polluting your speech with streams of insults and arenas in the style of characters in bad Hollywood films.
            Now for your arguments.
            1.
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            The battles did not start red, they did not need this war for nothing. They picked up a power that just lay underfoot.

            Really? So, you didn’t hear about the battles in Kazan during the “establishment of Soviet power”? As well as about similar battles in the Donbass?
            2.
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            As a result, by the summer of 1917 the country practically did not exist and

            It’s strange. Contemporaries of those events, unlike you, did not think so. There was a single economic, railway mechanism of the country. The Ukrainian "Rada" recognized itself under the control of the Provisional Government. But the "UNR" was announced only on November 20 — just after the Bolshevik coup. Varyag, understand the real split of the country, not negotiations with an attempt to bargain for autonomy within unified countries began precisely after the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks.
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            and even the invaders were invited here.

            Again a lie. It was the “Comrade Trotsky” who invited the “Intervents” together with the Murmansk Council of Deputies. These figures were nowhere redder. Here is a link to the website of modern communists, so that you don’t say that I supposedly give you fakes.
            http://leninism.su/works/99-v-i-lenin-neizvestnye
            -dokumenty-1891-1922 / 3636-dokumenty-1918-g-mart-a
            prel.html
            Here in the documents “Lenin” and “Trotsky” directly call the British and French allies.
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            terror, and the civil war unleashed by the whites you adore.

            Oh really? Probably Kornilov ordered a popular demonstration in support of the US to be shot? And the Decree “On Red Terror”, probably, dictated to Ulyanov? And did the “Southern Front against counter-revolution” establish in 1917 Denikin? Or maybe it was Kolchak’s personal guard that consisted of Latvian shooters?
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            Real officers served
            Russia, on the side of the whites, and not the "Zemshar Republic of Soviets" on the side of the reds.
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 10: 43
              +11
              Lieutenant Teterin
              Again a lie. It was the “Comrade Trotsky” who invited the “Intervents” together with the Murmansk Council of Deputies.
              Oh how?
              - Then on the ruins of the chapel ...
              - Excuse me, but I also ruined the chapel ?! laughing
              I’m wondering what other wilds your indefatigable imagination can lead you to.

              I said, I do not care deeply for your fakes, which you are a master at.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 10: 56
                +8
                Varangian, did you follow the link? Looks like no. I repeat — this is a site the communists. The link to it goes to the archives of the USSR. Are you going to blame your ideological comrades for falsification? Or do you think that the Soviet archives are fake?
                Here is a quote for you if you are afraid to read the site:
                Note by A.M. Yuryev to V.I. Lenin

                13 hours]. April 10, 1918

                Comrade To Lenin.

                The first one. Yesterday morning, the official telegram was addressed [to] by the Council of People's Commissars, only a copy to Podvoisky.

                The second one. Your words: “we advise you to accept the help of the British” and “by all means drive the White Guards away” - does it mean to accept the military assistance of the British and French, expressed in sending their insignificant, however, detachment to help our Red Army?

                The third. Is it possible on point two to officially declare on behalf of the Council of People's Commissars about accepting assistance in the defense of the middle and northern parts of the Murmansk road from the Finnish White Guard.

                We understand that, perhaps, you cannot officially say this. Then we take responsibility and do it ourselves. But we need to be sure here that our actions do not go against your plans. The exact expression of your approval will be kept secret.

                Fourth. About minesweepers we send special paper to the Maritime Commissariat and the Arkhangelsk centroflot and Sovdep, without which we will not, of course, solve the issue.



                13 hours 30 minutes.

                At the apparatus of comrade Stalin. Accept the answer:

                Help accept. To deal with minesweepers in the institutions you are talking about, and there are no obstacles on our part. The combination should be completely unofficial. This case belongs, as it were, to the category of military secrets; in keeping the secret, you are responsible as we are.

                It seems clear; if you are satisfied, then I think the conversation is over.

                Lenin.

                Stalin.

                Yuriev: I believe that we are acting not contrary to you, but on our own.

                Stalin: In addition, act absolutely secretly and more or less autonomously.

                Yuriev: So we will ask the British and French to help the armed forces defend the middle part of the Murmansk road on their behalf.

                Stalin: In addition, do not forget to move the border guard to the previous borders in the west, considering that the strip given up under the contract, under changed circumstances, now remains with us.

                Yuriev: What about the Russian-Finnish Commission? 6

                Stalin: Send the commission to the Council of People's Commissars, saying that they did not receive instructions from the latter in the sense of giving back the band.

                Yuriev: Thank you for the nice message. Do not hold Podvoisky, send as soon as possible.

                Stalin: Goodbye, comrade. Good luck.

                Murmansk. April 10, 7.

                Fund 2, on. 1, d. 25617 - copy

                Here. Read. There is even a link to the archival fund. Soviet archival affairs. You will argue that this is all a fake? What did the Soviet archival workers forge the correspondence of the Soviet leadership in order to denigrate “Trotsky”, “Lenin”, “Stalin”?
                Moreover, the site where I get the quote from is communist. Section of the site is “the complete works of Lenin”. Do you want to say that I faked "PSS" and the site?
                If so, then I must ask a legitimate question — Varangian, and are you friends with reality at all? Or do you live in the mania of an alternative story where everyone lies to you and serves you all the fakes?
                1. Varyag_0711
                  Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 11: 22
                  +10
                  The guarantor, I repeat for those who are on an armored train. I don’t give a damn about your fake sites, I don’t need your links either to the Communists or to anyone else, you’ve been caught lying so many times that I’m not going to waste my time rechecking your lies. The fact that you are lying is as clear to me as God's day, and for this I do not need to go to the left resources and spend my time studying the supposedly believable documents.
                  The whole problem is that I found my great-grandfather and great-grandmother from the village of Nikolaev Rostov Region alive, who were direct participants in the WWII and the civil war. A bunch of relatives have survived who remember their parents who lived at that time and I know exactly how they lived and what they fought for.
                  So, contrary to your deceitful agitation, my great-grandfather was forcibly forced to fight just by the whites, not the reds. In 1919, during one battle with the First Mounted Army of Budyonny, your "noble" and "brave" white officers were so frightened by the red cavalry that they left the rank and file to the mercy of fate, and themselves shamefully fled. Left without officers, ordinary Cossacks showed no resistance and surrendered to Budyonny without a fight. Nobody shot them, nobody put them in jail, the offer was simple, or leaving weapons and horses back home, or staying with weapons and horses, but go to the First Horse Army. My great-grandfather went to Budyonny and fought against him until the end of the civilian. He was awarded the Order of the Battle of the Red Banner. Then he fought in the Second World War, was awarded the Order of Glory of the 3rd and 2nd degree, for the PMV he also had two Georges of the 4th and 3rd degrees and an award checker. He was not a communist, but he fully supported the Soviet regime.
                  So with your fakes you can treat anyone, but not me.
                  By the way, my maternal great-grandfather fought for the whites, was an esaul, but then he disappeared somewhere, but his son, my grandfather, was an ardent communist, went through two wars, a career officer, two wounds and a lot of awards. So I have, as it is, by whom to study history, and not your fakes.
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 11: 45
                    +6
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    I don’t give a damn about your fake sites, I don’t need your links either to the Communists or to anyone else, wa

                    Wow. Severe clinical case. "I hate you, and so you are lying." As it reminds me of modern "liberals" ....
                    Means, I will consider as established the fact that you, a convinced communist, consider the fake "PSS Lenin."
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    you've been caught lying so many times that I'm not going to waste my time

                    Clear. You just have nothing to refute me. You have no arguments, and you “forget” that I have successfully refuted all allegations of lies. As an example, remember how I, referring to Gilyarovsky, proved to one "linguist" that the word "Caucasian" was used in the 30s. And I also proved to him, with reference to Dzhugashvili, that the Bolsheviks called themselves Communists. There are these messages in the archive of my comments — you can view them.
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    1919, during one battle with the First Mounted Army of Budyonny, your "noble" and "brave" white officers were so frightened by the red cavalry

                    Tell me, did your grandfather not tell you the place of this "one battle"? Capturing is a memorable event for any warrior. It can’t be that he doesn’t remember the place where the battle was going on.
                    1. Varyag_0711
                      Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 12: 38
                      +10
                      You know, all your tricks, jokes, and other crap that you hide behind me have no effect. You can certainly go into discussions, but the question is for what?
                      It's all just outrageous, you are not trying to reveal the truth, you are purposefully trying to distort history, to spoil, to smear shit on the Soviet period. After all, everything lies on the surface, are you trying to convince everyone of what? The fact is that the Bolsheviks came to power illegally, which means that everything they did then was illegal, that is, by doing so you are trying to belittle the achievements of the USSR. And these were really the greatest achievements, never, in any country in the world, there was anything like this and never in its history Russia has reached such heights as under Comrade Stalin. It was under him that Russia turned into a superpower, the equal of which was neither before nor after. It was this country, this system and this people that broke the neck of world imperialism in the person of Nazi Germany and its satellites, including ALL Europe. It was Stalin, with his vision, who was able to raise the country twice from ruins and devastation, into which your white militants drove this country. Yes, exactly so, it was your beloved crystal bakers that brought the country to ruin, first the Russian-Japanese war, the revolution of 1905-1907, then the bloody imperialist massacre, then the coup, the overthrow of the tsar by your white-hunters, then the civil war and intervention unleashed by them Entente countries, then they also went in the ranks of the Wehrmacht and the SS to kill their people. Yes, they did all this, your adored "noble" officers. Then they served the American errands, trying to inflict the greatest possible harm to the USSR, which, surrounded by a hostile west, rose from the ruins.
                      The question is, why are you doing all this? What do you need4 supposedly the truth about those events? NO, you don’t see any truth in your eyes, your task is to denigrate, slander and belittle the achievements of the SOVIET PEOPLE.
                      What do you blame the Bolsheviks? Brest peace? Again, it was not the Bolsheviks who brought the country to this shameful agreement, they were forced to agree to save the country from complete occupation. What else? Loss of territory? Again a lie, it was not possible to keep them at that moment. And then, we all returned and even more. Yes, both Finland and part of Poland were part of the Republic of Ingushetia, but what's the point? They were actually independent, having their own parliaments and so on. As a result of the Second World War, the Soviet Union returned the lost territories, and returned it with interest. In the West, the USSR received all its lands, with the exception of Finland, which became neutral, we received Kaliningrad, which was never part of the Republic of Ingushetia. We received not just a piece of Poland, but completely Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. Yes, they were not part of the USSR, but were completely controlled by Moscow. When was this with RI? NEVER this was not even in the heyday of Russia under Catherine the Great.
                      Not a single country has achieved such a pace of development as it was under Joseph Stalin. Industrialization was carried out at a tremendous pace; factories were built like hot cakes. Yes, all this was done by incredible work, but it was done for the people, for the good of the people and for the greatness of the country. So that we can all live now, including such abominations as you and your kind. Were it not for the USSR, there would be no you.
                      It is disgusting that you and others like you spit on the achievements of my ancestors, who stood and defended this country. You spit on the graves of my grandfathers and great-grandfathers who created all this. And for what? Yes, precisely in order to kill the pride in the current generation for the country, to make them repent and crawl on their knees in front of the West.
                      Do you think no one understands what you are doing here? You are mistaken, I see right through you. You boast that you are a "Russian Patriot", something babbling about your "honor" there. What are you speaking about? You are an ordinary selling abomination without honor or conscience. Everything that you do should be regarded as a betrayal of the homeland. However, it is still not clear where you have your homeland.
                      So continue on until you have taken that opportunity. I would love to turn your face into a bloody yushka because you spat on the graves of my grandfathers, but it’s a pity you won’t do it on the Internet. So frolic aunt, while your week, but remember that there will be a holiday on my street and God forbid you fall into my hands.
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 13: 38
                        +5
                        How much anger, expression and emotion ... that hide the void.
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        the greatest achievements, never, in any country in the world, was anything like that and

                        For you, “state achievements” are more important than people? Is “imperial greatness” more important than the fate of those who live in the state? It doesn’t matter for you how many people die of hunger, the mistakes of mediocre leadership and the desire for gigantomania — after all, “bending them all” is more important to you, right?
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        first, the lost Russo-Japanese war, the revolution of 1905-1907, then the bloody imperialist massacre, then the coup,

                        The Russo-Japanese War was lost due to supply problems. Which arranged ... revolutionary figures who betrayed their homeland. The revolution of 1905-7? The terrorist war of revolutionary militants against their country and people. And your ideological comrades-in-arms from the RSDLP have also noted here, having stained their hands with the blood of fellow citizens.
                        WWI, when Russia defended itself against German aggression, from the German capture of the Russian Baltic states and Ukraine — is this an “imperialistic massacre” for you? Congratulations — you just doused the memory of hundreds of thousands of Russian heroes who defended Russia in those years. Your words are Russophobia of the purest water.
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        the civil war unleashed by them and intervention by the Entente countries

                        Again a lie. I already proved to you — who is to blame for the beginning of the war and who was the first to call the British to help. And it was not white.
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        then they went in the ranks of the Wehrmacht and the SS to kill their people.

                        Really? Have you ever tried to compare the number of emigrants who served the Nazis with the number of Soviet soldiers and officers who joined the ROA, RONA and other formations. Compare. You will be surprised at the fact who REALLY fought against his people.
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        Industrialization was carried out at a tremendous pace; factories were built like hot cakes.

                        You haven’t heard anything about Kahn’s company either. As well as about American investments in the USSR.
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        It’s disgusting that you and others like you spit on the achievements of my ancestors,

                        And it’s disgusting to me that you and people like you, for the sake of lists of factories and “we won Europe all over” tickpots, pour tons of mud on the thousand-year-old history of my Motherland-Russia, on people who defended it, on my fellow citizens, justifying the massacres during the years of “repressions”, the courtless eviction of peasants into bare fields and the living of people in bestial conditions.
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        I would love to turn your face into a bloody yushka

                        How many empty words. In reality, you would rather be silent in a rag. As they were silent in December 1991.
                        And I would love to ... send you a year of commercials ... in 1927. For you to experience all the charms of these “incredible achievements” —a link from acquired places by a “special settler”. Beatings and humiliations during interrogations at the NKVD, where you would be sent to be denounced by a party organizer neighbor. Famine famine. Captivity and the shameful stigma of “the fascist’s auxiliary worker”. After such tests, I would look at you. Or rather, how you would singing with a nightingale about "the great achievements of Stalin."
                        PS You did not answer my question, after what battle did your grandfather get to the Reds.
                      2. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 20 February 2018 15: 34
                        +4
                        Quote: Varyag_0711
                        Not a single country has achieved such a pace of development as it was under Joseph Stalin.

                        Yes, not in any country in the worldabout 7 million starvationand in the middle of the 20th century (according to the State Duma of the Russian Federation), as it was under Stalin. Even in Africa and Asia, it was not. And not a word was said about this in the USSR.
              2. Poppy
                Poppy 20 February 2018 16: 15
                +5
                Ignore the typical liberal nonsense.
                historical fact - the civil war started by white, they invited invaders too
                1. Varyag_0711
                  Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 17: 14
                  +11
                  The fact is that if it were just nonsense, it would be possible to ignore. But, the problem is that these nonsense began to be strongly exaggerated and introduced into the consciousness of the masses. And it’s okay that only all sorts of Teterins, Olgovichs and other local gang of dirty tricks would sin, they started to sin at the state level, namely, the former Crimean prosecutor, and now the State Duma deputy Poklonskaya and her sympathizers. And this is a purposeful policy to undermine state principles and an attempt to split the country ahead of the elections. That is, methodical and purposeful work is underway to split the society, and then there is a stone's throw to the Maidan in Russia. Considering that the people are split, there are a lot of people who are dissatisfied, and even coupled with the multinationality of Russia, you can raise such a flurry that Ukraine will appear as flowers.
                  That is why such crust bakers need to be heated in the toilet, until they have brought the country to the abyss.
                  It seems like everything is a trifle, well, they started and parted, but only with such trifles it all starts. So whatever one may say, you have to react. hi
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 20 February 2018 18: 40
                  +7
                  Quote: Poppy
                  White started a civil war, they invited invaders too

                  laughing Regarding invitation cards. then both sides were not inferior to each other, especially with regards to the British wink
            2. Amurets
              Amurets 20 February 2018 12: 53
              +2
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Again a lie. It was the “Comrade Trotsky” who invited the “Intervents” together with the Murmansk Council of Deputies. These figures were nowhere redder.

              Speak as it really was. Do not forget the role of the Finns in WWI. “The intervention began as an alliance between the Bolsheviks and the Entente countries to protect against white whales and German troops. On March 1, 1918, the Murmansk Council (Acting Chairman Aleksei Yuryev) informed the Council of People's Commissars of the proposal received by British Rear Admiral Thomas Kemp (Eng. Thomas Webster Kemp). The proposal was limited to protecting the forces of the British troops of the Murmansk Railway from the German and (or) White-Finnish troops. Leon Trotsky, who was the People’s Commissar for Foreign Affairs, replied what the proposal was should take.
              Yuryev concluded on March 2, 1918, a “verbal agreement” with the following content: “§ 1. The highest power within the Murmansk region belongs to the Murmansk Sovdep. § 2. The supreme command of all the armed forces of the region belongs to the leadership of the Soviet of Deputies to the Murmansk Military Council of 3 persons - one for the appointment of the Soviet government and one each from the British and French. § 3. The British and French do not interfere in the internal management of the area: all decisions of the Council of Deputies, which are of general importance, they are informed by the Council of Deputies in those forms, which, according to the circumstances, the cases will be deemed necessary. § 4. The Allies take care of supplying the region with the necessary reserves ”(Documents of the USSR Foreign Policy. T. 1. M., 1957, p. 221). [10]" And see the book by Chris Mann, Christer, Jorgensen. The war on in the north, chapter one, why did the Bolsheviks go for it, so not everything is clear and obvious, and the role of Germany, Finland and Mannerheim in the intervention in the north is also great.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 13: 40
                +3
                Based on your words, can the Reds ask the Entente to help in the fight against the German accomplices of the Finns, and the White cannot be asked for help in the fight against the German accomplices-Bolsheviks?
                1. Amurets
                  Amurets 21 February 2018 00: 56
                  +1
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Based on your words, can the Reds ask the Entente to help in the fight against the German accomplices of the Finns, and the White cannot be asked for help in the fight against the German accomplices-Bolsheviks?

                  And what do you think, it is better to give military and dual-use cargo to the White Finns and Germans, or to agree that the Germans and white Finns will capture everything. It was then that the Bolsheviks, together with the British, fought against the Germans and White Finns. The British, French and Americans were thrown from the North by the end of 1919, but the war with the White Finns continued until 1922. This war against Russia was led by Marshal Mannerheim, a former Russian general.
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 20 February 2018 18: 46
                +6
                Quote: Amurets
                not everything is clear and obvious here

                hi Greetings buddy!
                Of course, not everything is clear! For example, the friendship of the British with both white and red in Transcaspia!
            3. captain
              captain 21 February 2018 15: 02
              +3
              Lieutenant Teterin. Your comment; "Varangian, you are a terrific person. Not only do you distort facts to please your views, but you also cannot communicate without insults. As far as I understand from your profile and messages, you are an officer. Then I do not understand the reasons for by which you dishonor the honor of the uniform, polluting your speech with streams of insults and arenas in the style of characters in bad Hollywood films. " Your opponent, Varyag, is a political worker, or rather a party representative in the Army, that is, a commissar. In essence, he cannot be an officer, he is a party functionary. Your calls to him are useless. He is a follower of Mehlis, Rosalia Zemlyachki, etc.
              1. Monarchist
                Monarchist 10 March 2018 15: 19
                0
                Read from Drabkin how front-line officers treated the political leaders. When in the 60-N. C, he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner by all former political leaders and the PMC, then the front-line soldiers regarded this as their insult. Drabkin can read a lot of interesting things
        2. BAI
          BAI 20 February 2018 12: 48
          +2
          have the courage to face the truth — there were no open battles before the Bolsheviks came to power

          Did not have. But let's face it - who started the war?
          The first stage of the civil war began from the moment of the armed seizure of power by the Bolsheviks on October 25, 1917 and continued until March 1918. This period can be safely called moderate, since no active military operations were observed at this stage. The reasons for this are that the "white" movement at this stage was only forming, and the political opponents of the Bolsheviks, the Socialist Revolutionaries and the Mensheviks, preferred to seize power by political means. After the Bolsheviks announced the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly, the Mensheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries realized that they could not succeed in seizing power, and began to prepare for an armed seizure.


          Pay attention to the first line of the first stage. How it all began.
          And then - the law of survival. Either you kill, or they kill you. (In this case, “you” is a figure of speech, not an appeal to an opponent).
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 20 February 2018 12: 58
            +3
            The first stage of the civil war - the ARMED seizure of power by the Bolsheviks, November-December 1917
          2. BAI
            BAI 20 February 2018 13: 34
            +1
            Did not have. But let's face it - who started the war?

            I apologize for the typo - of course, "in the eye."
          3. Nikitin
            Nikitin 20 February 2018 15: 47
            +3
            Quote: BAI
            The first stage of the civil war began from the moment of the armed seizure of power by the Bolsheviks on October 25, 1917 and continued until March 1918. This period can be safely called moderate, since no active military operations were observed at this stage.

            You have not read the article at all, it turns out?
            The TRUTH is clearly written there:
            в February 1918, Kthe red army won the first major victories in southern Russia. As a result two-month bloody battles Soviet troops cleared the white and white Cossacks of the Don. Also, Soviet troops won up over the forces of the Central Council, taking Kiev on February 8, 1918
            и
            Quote: BAI
            After the Bolsheviks announced the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly, the Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries realized that they would not succeed in seizing power, and began prepare for capture by armed.

            The Bolsheviks did the armed seizure of power in October 17 and January 18, when they understood
            Quote: BAI
            that they won’t succeed in seizing power,

            Already forgotten? request
            1. BAI
              BAI 20 February 2018 17: 58
              +3
              in February 1918, the Red Army won the first major victories in southern Russia.

              Read carefully the text you are responding to.
              In January 1918, military operations began against the Bolsheviks (they didn’t start), and in February 1918 - the first victories of the Bolsheviks (for which they ended).
              1. Nikitin
                Nikitin 21 February 2018 09: 00
                +2
                Quote: BAI
                In January 1918, military operations began against the Bolsheviks (they didn’t start), and in February 1918 - the first victories of the Bolsheviks (for which they ended).

                You did NOT read the article, alas: Don initially from October 25th. And the red attacked Don in November-December 1918
                1. BAI
                  BAI 21 February 2018 16: 31
                  0
                  In the quote that I quoted, the Russian language says about events in Russia. Naturally, hostilities did not begin on the Don, but only then spread there. You will be surprised, but the October Revolution took place in St. Petersburg, and not in the Don.
                2. Nikitin
                  Nikitin 21 February 2018 16: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Nikitin-
                  red attacked Don in November-December 1918

                  November-December 1917 of course
        3. naidas
          naidas 20 February 2018 19: 40
          +4
          I support Varyag, and the lieutenant have the courage to face the truth: until July 1917, the Bolsheviks were almost inaudible until the Provisional Government began to shoot people and the Bolsheviks turned out to be extreme, for some reason they were alone with the people, the rest either on the side or for government.
        4. Monarchist
          Monarchist 21 February 2018 13: 45
          0
          The lieutenant, in which I agree with you, is that the Provisional Government, in addition to blah blah, was not able to. If we compare the SNK and the Provisional Government, then the comparison is not in favor of the latter: Kerensky had power and so that they would not tell later, there were disciplined units, for example, Krymov’s corps, but he chatted
      2. Hantengri
        Hantengri 20 February 2018 09: 30
        +4
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        If olgovich had ****, then he would be a man ...

        SchA, this creature will also ban you, as a "MATA fan" and begin, at every opportunity, scream so that you do not touch it "for here," because he is "disgusted with you"! laughing
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 09: 36
          +9
          Igor hi Well, they don’t have other methods. It’s always hard to lie. And after all, what is characteristic when they poke their faces into their own lies, then they start to run into rudeness, or completely shut up, neither to answer you, nor to say hello.
          The main thing is that everything is sewn with white thread, but these two “wrestlers” with the red ones, with tenacity worthy of a better use, continue to prick, but stubbornly eat the cactus. Until a complete set of inadequacies is not enough, Russ, Jimsera and the soldier.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 20 February 2018 09: 54
            +3
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            Until a complete set of inadequacies is not enough, Russ, Jimsera and the soldier.

            Here, in the article above, another one drew himself, completely ill, even writing with yat and er.
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 20 February 2018 10: 06
              +7
              HanTengri Today, 09:54 ↑
              Here, in the article above
              You probably mean below in the article? Is that a lizard philosopher? Well what can I say, the war didn’t clean all the sick ... laughing However, the spring on the nose, in the foolish door, the orderly did not close the door, and now someone ran away to where.
      3. Serg65
        Serg65 20 February 2018 14: 26
        +5
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        History is what it is

        what
        Well, if such a booze had already gone, then the Bolsheviks also did not stand aside wink ! The striking similarities of those and present times, in the desire to gain power, liberals and communists are ready to go hand in hand bully
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        the people would go for the constituent assembly, and not for the Bolsheviks

        The Bolsheviks would have promised the founding of the same milk rivers and jelly banks, so the people would have gone for the founding! You give communism, common wives and an eternal freebie fellow wassat
      4. Olgovich
        Olgovich 21 February 2018 06: 52
        +2
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        You zadolbali your insanity

        you -to his insanity
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        constituent assembly is a meaningless bunch of worthless balabol.

        Who are you? You are Nobody. And the definition given by Nobody is Nothing.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        If olgovich had ****, then he would be a man.

        You won’t even get anyway. yes
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        No matter how much you try to shove the unedited here, nothing will come of it. The story is what it is, and not one that was born and will not die in your absolutely sick subconscious

        Yes, she is, so you are the losers who asked for everything: the country, the people, the army, the pariah, ALL.
        Losers.... lol
      5. vkbond
        vkbond 2 December 2019 18: 07
        0
        The people went, but they started to shoot him. Here is just one example. Together with the rear units of the Latvian riflemen and the Lithuanian Life Guards regiment, the Bolsheviks surrounded the approaches to the Tauride Palace. Supporters of the Assembly responded with demonstrations of support; according to various sources, from 10 to 100 thousand people participated in the demonstrations. On January 5, 1918, as part of the columns of demonstrators, workers, employees, and intelligentsia moved to Tauride and were shot from machine guns. From the testimony of the worker of the Obukhov plant D.N. Bogdanov of January 29, 1918, a participant in the demonstration in support of the Constituent Assembly:
    2. avt
      avt 20 February 2018 10: 02
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      This is what the October Revolution and the dispersal of the Constituent Assembly led to: bloody battles
      , i.e. to the civil war.

      wassat This is what flirting with the kingdom leads to, well, in addition to creating the noble assembly of the Proletarian district. bully Facts are picked out like raisins from a roll, which is then thrown away. Your white knights "gave a damn about the oath and carried out a coup d'etat in February 1917. Can't we remember it? They brought to power outright profane, shallow grasses who themselves trampled power and statehood into the mud, from where the Bolsheviks lifted it. they didn’t poke buttons like we all did.
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      The Provisional Government, for all its shortcomings, sought to resolve the contradictions through negotiations, rather than exterminating the opposite side.

      bully I’ll pay you right now with emotion! Is it during the war !? When I read frankly morazmatically, I’m somehow presenting a picture again on Stalin’s place in 1941. Yeltsin - “I’m leaving, forgive me Russians,” or Gorbi - “The process has begun” and ... quit. All this is yours, Temporary the bastard "fought off its own interest and brought the country to a complete collapse of state institutions. The best example is the current Ruin. You boys have played in," noble dons "in their noble collections of the Proletarian region in an alternative reality and completely lost the cause and effect relationship. Civil war would La consequence of the paralysis of state institutions of power of the Empire. ALL! Which directly organized, or actively involved in the article - Kornilov, Kaledin, Alekseev. The latter is completely in the first place! If Nikolashka ,, Bloody “It would be real as Alice of Hesse said - ,, Nicky, you must be like ,, Terrible”, would hang Alexeyev and Guchkov on the same gallows in the Crimea, when the latter did not recruit anyone, but the chief of the General Staff, and even repulsed the telegram - ,, the Old Man agrees "...... But you are in the senility of the sect of Tsarebozhiks staying, it’s more convenient to write off everything to the Bolsheviks ..... who have dispersed the notorious Constituent Assembly bully
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 10: 33
        +7
        Oh, you, as I look, again burst into a discussion in the style of the unforgettable Diana Ilyina? wink
        Quote: avt
        Your ,, white knights "didn’t give a damn about the oath and carried out a coup in February 1917. We don’t remember anymore?

        Remember. The fact that only one of the leaders of the White movement in the conspiracy was Alekseev. And then there is still debate about his participation. Kornilov? Yes, he participated in the arrest of the Imperial family, but he behaved very correctly, and the Empress later expressed gratitude to him. His actions generally resemble an attempt to protect the royal family from revolutionary free-will. Drozdovsky, Wrangel, Kutepov, Turkul, Denikin — not only did not participate in the conspiracy, but did not even hear anything about him.
        Anyway, your attempt to justify the Bolsheviks' actions by betraying several officers of the Imperial Army looks the same as the criminal’s attempt to justify the robbery with the words: “Citizen is a boss, and he passed all such a shaved and good little finger next to me!” Your words are unconvincing.
        Quote: avt
        It would be real as Alice of Hesse said to him -

        Wow ... You, relying on the controversial passage from the correspondence of the royal family, are better than the Emperor, who received a brilliant education, a contemporary of those events, do you know what he had to do? Yes, you are a genius! lol If you are such a brilliant politician, then why are you still not the President of Russia?))
        1. avt
          avt 20 February 2018 10: 51
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Oh, you, as I look, again burst into a discussion in the style of the unforgettable Diana Ilyina?

          Oh my goth, goth mine Oh! ,, Their grace "is outraged?
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          again breaking into a discussion in the style of the unforgettable Diana Ilyina?

          So I have your kings from the 90s sobbed like children, not like the nobles of the Proletarian district!
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          The fact that only one of the leaders of the White movement in the conspiracy was Alekseev.

          bully And he also wrote telegrams from the front commanders? Without an ensemble?
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Yes, he participated in the arrest of the Imperial family, but he behaved very correctly, and the Empress later expressed gratitude to him.

          bully
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          There are, alas, people who do not have the courage to face the truth

          Practically the power operation to arrest the tsar was carried out by General Ruzsky on the territory under his jurisdiction.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Anyway, your attempt to justify the actions of the Bolsheviks by betraying several officers

          bully Song of songs! So, as a souvenir, one Kolchak was silent. A mighty bunch, "several officers" of senior management.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Wow...

          ,,You must Fedya, you must"
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          If you are such a brilliant politician, then why are you still not the President of Russia?))

          bully All? Merged, "grace" bully
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 11: 18
            +7
            Quote: avt
            mayt goth, goth mine Oh! ,, Their grace "is outraged?

            No, you definitely have a “fad” on the nobility. You want to be a “noble” yourself, only the communication style of real cultural people repels you. Avt, where and when did I say that I am a nobleman? You will not find such a message. I have never appropriated the nobility for myself and did not strive for this. Unlike some.
            Quote: avt
            So I have your kings from the 90s sobbed like children, not like the nobles of the Proletarian district!

            I doubt it very much. These noble assemblies of such personalities as you or Mrs. Ilyina did not let a mile away from you, and the attitude towards them ... restrained and squeamish. But all kinds of gatherings of crooks anyone took their composition. So it doesn’t even seem to me HOW you should have behaved so that even crooks did not accept you into their ranks.
            Quote: avt
            telegrams from the front commanders, too, he wrote alone? Without an ensemble?

            I say his participation is still a matter of debate.
            Quote: avt
            Practically the power operation to arrest the tsar was carried out by General Ruzsky on the territory under his jurisdiction

            Exactly. And, which is characteristic, he did not join the White Movement, unlike Alekseev and Kornilov. That already says a lot. And then he paid in full for his betrayal.
            Quote: avt
            Song of songs! So, as a souvenir, one Kolchak was silent. A mighty bunch, "several officers" of senior management.

            So after all, telegrams came to the officers from the Stavka in panic — they say that the rear is falling apart, the “people” demand the abdication of the Tsar. The comforces and armies did not have a direct wire to St. Petersburg and Moscow. Their source of information is Bet. What else should the combat generals have recommended after receiving such an introductory?
            Quote: avt
            All? Merged, "grace"

            What is your peculiar ... lexicon. lol
            1. avt
              avt 20 February 2018 11: 35
              +3
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              You want to be a "noble" yourself

              bully Yes, I’m a HUNTED NOBLEMAN! What was it about during one of the Tsarina from the Musin-Pushkin’s, when she fried cutlets to her tsar in the palace’s entrance through the gateway and told them. So there is a document on the courtyard fenced and there is an electric pole on it. Well, exactly when some such people wanted to attract me to their sect.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              I say his participation is still a matter of debate.

              Yes, a lot of what you say sectarians from your alternative universe. Just turn to folk wisdom - you can’t wash a black dog to white. The highest army leadership EVERYTHING, led by Alekseev, took the side of the conspirators and not the Bolsheviks, but quite the environment of Nikolashka the Bloody
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 11: 54
                +5
                Quote: avt
                The highest army leadership EVERYTHING, led by Alekseev, sided with the conspirators and by no means the Bolsheviks, but almost completely surrounded

                Do you, like Mr. Varyag, prefer to argue with reality and not notice the arguments given to you? There is no evidence of the participation of the Army's top leadership (with the exception of Alekseev and Ruzsky) in the conspiracy. There is nothing but telegrams that they sent based on the information received from the Headquarters. But for you this is an “argument” in favor of their participation in the conspiracy. There are modern studies, and not one that speaks of the participation in the conspiracy of Ruzsky and some generals of the General Headquarters, but do not confirm the participation of the commanders of the fronts. But it’s obviously more convenient for you to ignore the facts and blame all the generals at once.
                1. MrK
                  MrK 20 February 2018 14: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  There is no evidence of the participation of the Army's top leadership (with the exception of Alekseev and Ruzsky) in the conspiracy.


                  Really no. Here are just telegrams. And from whom. The front commanders respond positively to the question of the desirability of renunciation: Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich (Caucasian Front), General Brusilov (South-Western Front), General Evert (Western Front), General Sakharov (Romanian Front), General Ruzsky (Northern Front), Admiral Nepenin (commander of the Baltic Fleet). Admiral Kolchak, commander of the Black Sea Fleet, wags like a prostitute: he refrained from sending a similar telegram, but he “unconditionally agreed” with the opinions of others, like General Headquarters Headquarters General Alekseev, one of the steering conspiracies.
                  As Trotsky then mockingly wrote: “The generals respectfully put seven revolving muzzle to the temples of the adored monarch».
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 20 February 2018 14: 51
                  +4
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  There is no evidence of the participation of the Army's top leadership (with the exception of Alekseev and Ruzsky) in the conspiracy.

                  what Excuse me, sir, if there was two currents in the conspiracy, then according to the law of the genre, hundreds of thousands of the rest of the gentlemen of the officers had to at least raise these two with bayonets, right ???
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 20 February 2018 14: 48
                +7
                Quote: avt
                Yes, I am a STABLE nobleman

                belay There you go !!!
                laughing Greetings to the Great White Shark! hi
                1. avt
                  avt 20 February 2018 16: 22
                  +2
                  Quote: Serg65
                  There you go !!!

                  hi bully And then! And then some .... lieutenant! total - the provincial secretary - 12th grade out of 14bully
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 20 February 2018 12: 29
          +1
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Kornilov? Yes, he participated in the arrest of the Imperial family, but he behaved very correctly, and the Empress later expressed gratitude to him.

          Is this to be understood? Almost never arrested? Only so, slightly, on the floor of the bump? A little does not count? wassat laughing
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 13: 45
            +4
            My dear, you can arrest in different ways. It is possible — like the Soviet “organs” with obscenities and beatings. And it is possible — like General Kornilov — to establish his guard and declare that it is inadmissible to leave the guarded building.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 20 February 2018 14: 52
              +6
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              It is possible — like the Soviet “organs” with obscenities and beatings. And it is possible — like General Kornilov — to establish his guard and declare that it is inadmissible to leave the guarded building.

              And what is the difference between the end result?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 15: 17
                +3
                In maintaining the physical and mental health of those arrested.
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 20 February 2018 22: 55
              +1
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              My dear, you can arrest in different ways. It is possible — like the Soviet “organs” with obscenities and beatings. And it is possible — like General Kornilov — to establish his guard and declare that it is inadmissible to leave the guarded building.

              Those. arrest - this is when the "face to the floor"? And when there wasn’t a “face to the floor”, is it almost no arrest at all? And, if the Emperor wasn’t beaten with boots on the kidneys and wasn’t poked in the nose with a Mauser, but culturally made an “offer that He cannot refuse” (c), then this is almost, almost, not a coup d'etat and, in general, as a first approximation , never cheating? Yes, Lieutenant? laughing
        3. Serg65
          Serg65 20 February 2018 14: 43
          +8
          Lieutenant, what kind of nonsense ??? Kornilov arrested the Emperor, but he arrested correctly ... good wassat do you understand what you said ???? He betrayed the Emperor! He trampled his oath into manure !!! What kind of correctness are you talking about. sir?
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Your attempt to justify the acts of the Bolsheviks by betraying several officers of the Imperial Army

          And what are these few the former officers of the Imperial Army are better than the Bolsheviks?
          Denikin, because of his greed and delusions of grandeur, scoured the whole south of Russia and Transcaspia, playing Kolchak nobility did not understand why he was dragged from Siberia to China, and as a result of their nobility they paid for his betrayal with interest!
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 20 February 2018 14: 59
            +4
            And when did Kornilov arrest the Emperor? And why did he "trample the oath of manure," explain?

            Quote: Serg65
            And why are these few former officers of the Imperial Army better than the Bolsheviks?


            Well, for example, by the fact that they did it for Russia and victory in the world war (as they believed), and not for the world revolution and defeat in the imperialist war
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 20 February 2018 18: 08
              +6
              Quote: Gopnik
              And when did Kornilov arrest the Emperor?

              smile The lieutenant will tell you this. he is a great expert on the arrests of royalty!
              Quote: Gopnik
              why did he "trample the oath of manure", explain?

              Because he swore allegiance to the Tsar Emperor, he received epaulettes, orders from him and a handle for Easter lobzal with rapture of the monarch's mercy !!! And as the smell of kerosene, so citizens call the king and the queen, you are arrested and see yourself quietly angry
              Quote: Gopnik
              they did it for Russia and victory in the world war (as they believed)

              laughing recently here in Kiev, too, some believed that the tires were being burned in the name of the Great and the Naked and that the most interesting, the result was the same!
              "They counted" yes they didn’t count a damn thing! Cards, girls, champagne, a marafet, and then suddenly a war! "For God, the Tsar and the Fatherland" - this is familiar and familiar, but let gentlemen! They kill there, sir, they completely kill, to death !!!! And who is to blame? Yes, the king of course, damn him !!!!
              Quote: Gopnik
              not for world revolution and defeat in imperialist war

              And you, citizen Gopnik, don’t you find that these are links of one chain that led to the withdrawal of one of the competitors from the world stage?
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 20 February 2018 18: 34
                +2
                Quote: Serg65
                The lieutenant will tell you this. he is a great expert on the arrests of royalty!


                He yes, in the subject. Kornilov did not arrest the Emperor.

                Quote: Serg65
                Because he swore allegiance to the emperor-king, epaulettes, orders were received from him and a handle for Easter was kissed with rapture of the monarch’s mercy !!!


                The emperor freed from the oath by signing a renunciation. And the arrest is, in fact, taking under protection from any red-bellied bastards.







                Quote: Serg65
                recently here in Kiev, too, some believed that the tires were being burned in the name of the Great and the Naked and that the most interesting, the result was the same!
                "They counted" yes they didn’t count a damn thing! Cards, girls, champagne, a marafet, and then suddenly a war! "For God, the Tsar and the Fatherland" - this is familiar and familiar, but let gentlemen! They kill there, sir, they completely kill, to death !!!! And who is to blame? Yes, the king of course, damn him !!!!


                I did not understand this stream of words, can you somehow express more clearly? The fact is that many believed that the imperial family (and not even the monarchy as such) interferes with the Victory, and everything will go easier with the other emperor. They were wrong, yes.

                Quote: Serg65
                And you, citizen Gopnik, don’t you find that these are links of one chain that led to the withdrawal of one of the competitors from the world stage?


                All these, of course, are the stages of a single process, called the "Great Russian Revolution."
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 20 February 2018 19: 04
                  +5
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  arrest is, in fact, taking under protection from any red-bellied bastards

                  Those. to save those who brought you to the generals, Kornilov somehow did not qualify?
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  can you communicate more clearly?

                  For God's sake! The imperial army pampered in the barracks. and when it came the turn of the people and sovereigns to work out money on the battlefields, some of the gentlemen of the officers disagreed with this turn of fate and entered into an agreement with bankers and merchants, decided to make a sort of "ala turn", while creating an economic crisis! Or are you telling me now that the Bolsheviks slowed down trains of bread in Gatchina?
                  In 90-91 everything was the same, only now the Reds acted as bankers, merchants and gentlemen officers!
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 21 February 2018 12: 00
                    +3
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Those. to save those who brought you to the generals, Kornilov somehow did not qualify?


                    save when? In the summer of 1918 in Yekaterinburg? Kornilov was not alive then

                    Quote: Serg65
                    some of the gentlemen of the officers disagreed with this turn of fate and entered into an agreement with bankers and merchants


                    Some nonsense ... For what purpose is conspiracy, for what?
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 21 February 2018 12: 28
                      +3
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      save when? In the summer of 1918 in Yekaterinburg?

                      Save the royal family 8 March 1917 year!
                      And on April 6 of 1917, General Kornilov personally awarded the St. George’s Cross the non-commissioned officer of the Volyn regiment Kirpichnikov for killing the head of the training team of the Volyn Regiment, staff captain Lashkevich, on 27 on February 1917! And what else can you tell me about the great general ???
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Some nonsense

                      Nonsense is what you try to shove me
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      For what purpose is conspiracy, for what?

                      The connection between the Duma and the officers existed for a long time. The work of the State Defense Commission during the reconstruction of the fleet and the reorganization of the army after the Japanese War proceeded with the active secret participation of officer youth. A.I. Guchkov formed a circle, which included Savich, Krupensky, Count Bobrinsky and officers, led by General Gurko. Apparently, General Polivanov also joined the circle, who subsequently played such a large role in the collapse of the army
                      A.I. Denikin

                      In 1905, the revolution failed because the army was for the Tsar ... In the event of a new revolution, it is necessary that the army be on our side; therefore, I exclusively deal with military issues and military affairs, wishing that, in case of need, the army would support us more than the Tsar’s House
                      A.I. Guchkov

                      hi Good luck to you!
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 15: 35
            +3
            Kornilov did not arrest the Emperor, but his Family. And already after the coup, and his behavior was more like not arrest, but the protection of the Family from rampant revolutionary anarchy.
            1. avt
              avt 20 February 2018 16: 31
              +3
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Kornilov did not arrest the Emperor, but his Family.

              what Uhhhhhhhhhhh Did the sinful Az miss something in gishtoria? Well, if we are talking about blocking Alice of Hesse with children, affectionately named and members of the Romanov family - “Hessian fly”, by the guards naval crew? then I gave it to this feat, well, there’s a branch, the last of which Bagratuni, the Hohenzollers push their Zhora to the kingdom ...... well, of course, for the sake of
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Families from the rampant revolutionary anarchy.

              bully And what? Az sinful is not against, then, the "shooting", well, the seizure of Nika Romanov’s family, is ... an act of mercy — they, even more harshly, took them out of the rampant anarchy of the Civil War "! bully
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 16: 50
                +3
                You have missed a lot in history. We are talking about the adoption by the Provisional Government of the decision to arrest the Royal Family. This decision was executed by the commander of the Petrograd Military District Kornilov. VC. Cyril, commander of the Guards Naval Crew, did not participate in this. Long before that, he announced the transfer of his unit to the side of the VP and ordered the seamen to occupy the railway stations of St. Petersburg.
                Quote: avt
                then, the "execution", well, the seizure of Nika Romanov’s family, is ... an act of mercy — they, even more harshly, took them out of the anarchy of the Civil War! "

                You know, a sane person can’t seriously write such a thing, because to equate the restriction of freedom of movement with extrajudicial murder ... this is not just cynicism, it is an inhuman act.
                1. avt
                  avt 20 February 2018 17: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  We are talking about the adoption by the Provisional Government of the decision to arrest the Royal Family.

                  Well, this is March 8th, and since we are poor, poor, we only remember that Kiryukha immediately drove personally to the Duma, but where did the sailors go by March 8, when Kornilov himself drew himself up and asked.
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  court killings.

                  Again this is not
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  inhuman act.
                  and the statement of fact - what happened to the head of the Romanov family and his DIRECT heirs to the entire state of the Romanov family, is not publicly known to the mass public! The archives are not open and the statement - “no one will know what we did” is still valid, as well as knowing who and how they really killed from the family. But
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  just cynicism

                  Issue human remains laid down by the KGB major Aldonin and Radzinsky and then miraculously "found at the right time. When they either knew or precisely calculated, the lawful applicants did not show property rights. Arrange a coven with the burial and then IMMEDIATELY after it , choosing a new head of the family. So they rushed to cut the loot that they couldn’t even wait for decency. But they didn’t see any of the attorneys and didn’t share the Russian Orthodox Church, the very thing, the Stalin-KGB’s didn’t recognize the remains! Even here, a second call at Cyril was needed, well, that the day before passed and ....... again, the great slip came out! bully Cyril decided .... to wait and sort out some commission, well, then later, according to ... ,, research results. ",, Here is such a squiggle understand" Even if you remember, Yeltsin almost had to be kicked for the funeral, he exactly after the ceremony he fell down. So whoever needs to know the truth and in exaltation the little hands do not break.
            2. Serg65
              Serg65 20 February 2018 18: 17
              +6
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Kornilov did not arrest the Emperor, but his Family. And after the coup

              what Does this justify him having sworn allegiance to the Emperor and Empress? But he kissed the Gospel and imposed a sign of the cross on himself, it turns out that he’s twice an oath-apostate!
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              his behavior was no longer reminiscent of arrest, but of protecting the Family from rampant revolutionary anarchy.

              am His behavior would have resembled a defense if he had taken this family to he far "from the rampant revolutionary anarchy" !!!!
              So it turns out that the gold miners and the communists, having profiled each his own empire, now want to prove to the Russian people that guys. Yes, you do not understand! This is not us, they are !!!
          3. Nikitin
            Nikitin 20 February 2018 15: 58
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            Kornilov arrested the Emperor,

            Kornilov-NOT arrested the Emperor.
            Quote: Serg65
            what nonsense ???

            Quote: Serg65
            He betrayed the Emperor! He trampled his oath into manure !!!

            Again:
            Quote: Serg65
            what nonsense ???

            Nikolai and Mikhail Romanov called on the army and people to OBEY to the Provisional Law. And practically ALL the Army took the oath of the air forces.
            Where is the "treason"?
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 20 February 2018 18: 26
              +6
              Quote: Nikitin-
              Nikolai and Mikhail Romanov called on the army and people to OBEY to the Provisional Law.

              Those. Nikolai and Mikhail, after a night out and the morning party, sorry, a hangover, decided ... why the hell with Russia, but let’s let Mishka resign? Well them to Leshem! And loyal subjects from this lawlessness howled with rage and arrested citizen Romanov.
              Did I correctly describe the events of those times, Mr. Nikitin?
              1. Nikitin
                Nikitin 21 February 2018 09: 13
                +2
                Quote: Serg65
                Those. Nicholas and Michael after a night out and morning, sorry, hangoverdecided ... yes what for this Russia, and let’s give Bear resignation? Well them to Leshem! And loyal subjects from this lawlessness howled with rage and arrested citizen Romanov.
                Did I correctly describe the events of those times, Mr. Nikitin?

                I brought you the FACTS, and you bring what is going on in your head. request
                Can you see the difference, Mr. Serge? hi
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 21 February 2018 09: 47
                  +4
                  Quote: Nikitin-
                  I brought you the facts

                  lol And your facts were due to what ??? If you follow the course of your thoughts, then Nikolai himself, voluntarily, in his right mind and without pressure from outside suddenly decided to stop being king !?
                  Or is it still not voluntary?
                  1. Nikitin
                    Nikitin 21 February 2018 11: 10
                    +2
                    Quote: Serg65
                    And your facts were due to what ??? If you follow the course of your thoughts, then Nikolai himself, voluntarily, in his right mind and without pressure from outside, suddenly decided to stop being king !?

                    You talked about the betrayal of Kornilov. They showed you that there was no betrayal.
                    We did NOT talk about the causes of the facts.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 21 February 2018 11: 41
                      +4
                      Quote: Nikitin-
                      You talked about the betrayal of Kornilov. They showed you that there was no betrayal.

                      What did they show me? Guchkov and Shulgin essentially made an anti-coup, and Kornilov and his comrades calmly watched this and you want to prove to me that Kornilov is not a traitor?
                      1. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 21 February 2018 12: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Serg65
                        and Kornilov and his comrades calmly watched this and you want to prove to me that Kornilov is not a traitor?

                        Why prove the OBVIOUS? request
                        WHERE did he “observe,” WHAT did he “observe?” belay
                        He swore allegiance to the Emperor, but the Emperors said to obey the EP.
                        WHAT is again unclear? request
        4. naidas
          naidas 20 February 2018 20: 17
          +1
          Well, at least these participants in the overthrow of the king participated in a big movement?
          Pavel Nikolayevich Milyukov-In January 1918 he was a member of the Don Civil Council. Then he moved to Kiev, where in May 1918 he began negotiations with the German command, which he considered as a potential ally in the fight against the Bolsheviks. (was not understood by the Cadets and left for Turkey).
          Alexander Ivanovich Guchkov - He donated 10 thousand rubles to General M.V. Alekseev for the formation of the Alekseyev organization, campaigned to join its ranks, set up the work of military-industrial committees, advised A.I. Denikin on political issues.
          He participated in the organization of the supply of British arms and equipment for the Russian Northwest Army, General N. N. Yudenich, etc.
          Mikhail Vladimirovich Rodzianko-went to the Don, was with the Volunteer Army, a pioneer.
        5. Monarchist
          Monarchist 21 February 2018 14: 02
          0
          Lieutenant, I partially agree with you: Kornilov behaved like a noble soldier. He, as a military DUTY, must comply with the order of his superior, but as a decent person he was extremely correct with the imperial family. And if in his place there was some kind of psychopath or "revolutionary revolution"?
          Regarding General Alekseev, here his behavior towards the emperor Nikolai Alexandrovich was not entirely clear. He then delayed the last telegram of the emperor. Samsonov had these events
      2. Nikitin
        Nikitin 20 February 2018 10: 38
        +5
        Quote: avt
        Your White Knights "didn’t give a damn about the oath and carried out a coup d'etat in February 1917. We don’t remember anymore?

        "A short course in the history of VKPBE" STALIN - no longer remember?
        Leader .... do not respect ?!
        Learn about the February revolution:
        The bourgeoisie thought to resolve the crisis through a palace coup.
        But the people allowed him in its own way.

        Made a revolution proletariat.
        They were led by the Bolsheviks on the streets.
        Quote: avt
        . The Civil War was the result of paralysis of the state institutions of power of the Empire.

        Quote: avt
        But you are in the senility of the sect of Tsarebozhiks staying, it’s more comfortable to blame everything on the Bolsheviks ..... dispersed the notorious Constituent Assembly

        But didn’t they disperse it? wink
        In NOVEMBER, the "eternally alive" grandfather admitted the fact of the Civil War, i.e. AFTER the october coup. yes
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 20 February 2018 18: 37
          +5
          Quote: Nikitin-
          Learn about the February revolution:

          Mr. Nikitin, do you seriously think that you are schoolchildren without meaning?
          Quote: Nikitin-
          The bourgeoisie thought to resolve the crisis through a palace coup.

          What crisis, my friend? Nah, not so!
          And hto did it ...
          Who created this crisis?
          Quote: Nikitin-
          But the people resolved it in their own way.

          And then the people guessed about this?
          And yes, dear, you should not rely on the history of the CPSU (B.) In a serious discussion — this is not a very true source!
          Quote: Nikitin-
          But didn’t they disperse it?

          what When you run around the letters with eyes, comprehend what you read?
          1. Amurets
            Amurets 21 February 2018 01: 18
            +1
            Quote: Serg65
            When you run around the letters with eyes, comprehend what you read?

            It is harmful. The head will hurt. Remember the unforgettable Fonviyin and his beautiful plays. And his statement at all times: "I do not want to study, I want to get married." Because for the modern analogue, on this site, you can get "eternal excommunication".
            1. Nikitin
              Nikitin 21 February 2018 09: 34
              +2
              Quote: Amurets
              Quote: Serg65
              When you run around the letters with eyes, comprehend what you read?
              It is harmful. The head will hurt

              Whence You you know Damaged already? request
              1. Amurets
                Amurets 21 February 2018 11: 48
                0
                Quote: Nikitin-
                How do you know? Damaged already?

                You still need to know the classics of Russian literature. Fonvizin "Undergrowth"
                1. Nikitin
                  Nikitin 21 February 2018 12: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: Amurets
                  You still need to know the classics of Russian literature. Fonvizin "Undergrowth"

                  WHERE, in WHOM unknown to anyone (except you lol ) the publication of "undergrowth" is these immortal words
                  Quote: Amurets
                  It is harmful. The head will hurt.
                  ?!
                  Share it! hi
          2. Nikitin
            Nikitin 21 February 2018 09: 32
            +2
            Quote: Serg65
            Mr. Nikitin, do you seriously think that you are schoolchildren without meaning?

            Where do I write it? belay [
            Quote: Serg65
            What crisis, my friend? Nah, not so!
            And hto did it ...
            Who created this crisis?

            The set of reasons, the main one is World War I and the position of bald tourists
            Quote: Serg65
            And yes, my dear, you should not rely on the history of the CPSU (b) in a serious discussion. not true source!

            How is it, Stalin said .... a lie ?! belay You encroached on the holy! yes
            Although here he said the truth. Can you challenge? No you can not.
            Quote: Serg65
            When you run around the letters with eyes, comprehend what you read?

            WHAT can be comprehended there, my dear? belay
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 21 February 2018 11: 12
              +5
              Quote: Nikitin-
              The set of reasons, the main one is World War I and the position of bald tourists

              what Well, yes, bald tourists are to blame for everything, but are we good, soft and fluffy?
              laughing Zemgor and the Military Industrial Committee essentially presented the whole country with “tourists” on a silver platter! Or isn’t it?
              When the government introduced firm prices in the fight against speculative price increases for bread, what did the landlords and merchants answer? That's right, by blackmail, which in turn led to the surplus. The ill-conceived veto on financing the production of weapons and ammunition by the Kokovtsevs in the 12 year led to the "Projectile Famine" in the 15 year and the massive purchase of weapons abroad!
              Conclusion: Lord gentlemen, merchants and bankers in the pursuit of profit, led the country to collapse. What the Bolsheviks took advantage of!
              I'm wondering what Prince Lvov was thinking about sharpening his boots in Paris ???
              1. Nikitin
                Nikitin 21 February 2018 12: 38
                +1
                Quote: Serg65
                Well, yes, bald tourists are to blame for everything, but are we good, soft and fluffy?

                Without tourists, there would be nothing. Remember how Stalin treated tourists, and simply did not give tourists many potential tourists. Was he stupid?
                Quote: Serg65
                Zemgor and the Military Industrial Committee essentially presented the whole country with “tourists” on a silver platter! Or isn’t it?

                Not this way
                Quote: Serg65
                When the government introduced firm prices in the fight against speculative price increases for bread, what did the landlords and merchants answer? That's right, by blackmail, which in turn led to the surplus.

                Food surplus did not destroy the free market. Russia is the only country of WWII that did not experience hunger
                Quote: Serg65
                landlords and merchants? That's right, by blackmail, which in turn led to the surplus. The ill-conceived veto on financing the production of weapons and ammunition by the Kokovtsevs in the 12th year led to the "Projectile Famine" in the 15th year and massive purchases of weapons abroad!

                Shells and weapons were not enough for anyone.
                Quote: Serg65
                Conclusion: Lord gentlemen, merchants and bankers in the pursuit of profit, led the country to collapse. What the Bolsheviks took advantage of!

                False: the Bolsheviks took advantage of the terrible military hardships of the country, weakened the country (which is natural in the war) and thrust it into the back with a knife.
                Quote: Serg65
                I'm wondering what Prince Lvov was thinking about sharpening his boots in Paris ???

                Imbued with sympathy for the so-called "winners" Bronstein, Apfelbaum, Rorzenfeld and other Nakhamkins-Tukhachevsky, who were shot like mad dogs, hanging the nicknames of traitors, spies and bandits.
                His enviable fate - compared to them yes
    3. antivirus
      antivirus 20 February 2018 18: 59
      +2
      antivirus 2 Today, 08:52 New
      father studied at Yves Energy Inst and "lived, 3 students in an apartment in 52-55 years, on the Worker Village", it is nearby. "The owner of the house was Konnik-Chapaevite, came with Furmanov, Ivanovo weavers"
      There were 2 rooms in the house, in one of the owners (I remember by association that Gorky’s grandfather and grandmother are small. Puny (?) As it should be for a jockey rider — it’s easier for a horse, a grandmother is a large, tall, high-born), 2 sons grew up and lived separately already, their room was rented out. in 55 g, dormitories were built on the Paris Commune, and resettled there.
      I didn’t write it down and, after several years, I forgot the names of the owners of the square.
      "He said," they did everything right. so now we live like that. "I understand how --- I was pleased with my life in the 50s and my life.

      father showed
      GESTURE (ALL YOUR (them) HATE AND ALL RUSSIAN 20 CENTURY) ------

      !!! fist from chest level vertically down, like a saber from a saddle on foot !!!

      It is necessary to look at the living conditions in the center of Russia which supported the Bolsheviks.
      They fought for the lives of their children (each), saved from hunger and disease.
      The north, the less likely it is to survive the winter without Tambov bread.
      there was no single nation, the process of creating a Russian-Russian nation has not been completed yet.
      Reply
      Quote Complaint
  2. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 07: 41
    +9
    I read the article and marvel at the twists and turns of consciousness of the author, he is ready to blame everyone - the Cossacks, "independent Ukrainians", white officers, the British, the Entente - all but the real culprits of the outbreak of the civil war - the Bolsheviks who seized power. It is strange that the author did not ascribe the beginning of GV to the actions of the Martians or the secret sect of the dark servants of Mordor. wink
    The final folding of the Civil War fronts will occur later, with the beginning of large-scale external intervention.

    Here's how you can lie so shamelessly? The southern front of the Volunteer Army formed in early 1918, when there was no "intervention" at all. The northwestern army of Yudenich fought without the real support of the British - they only spoke bravura speech and sent broken rifles into the trash. In the East, the Komuch army began to fight without any support of the Entente, and then, after being converted into the Kolchak army, the support of the Entente was about the same as that of Yudenich - Kolchak never saw any normal military equipment, nor units of allies near his troops.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 20 February 2018 08: 14
    +4
    Even before October, national "governments" with their military units appear on the ground, especially in the national suburbs, who are heading for "autonomy."
    July 7, 1917, I arrived in Kamenetz-Podolsk. There is confusion at the headquarters of the commander in chief: Kornilov had just arrived, appointed instead of Gutor ... Kornilov met me kindly and accepted with the words: “I demand from you the Ukrainization of your corps. I saw your 56th division, which is part of the 81st army Ukrainized, she fought beautifully in the last attack. You will Ukrainize your other divisions, I will return the 56th to you, and you will have a beautiful corps. " This 56th division was temporarily torn from me and given to the 8th Kornilov army, but I was with two divisions in the 7th army. I replied to Kornilov that I had just been in Kiev, where I watched Ukrainian figures, and they impressed me rather unfavorably that the corps could later become a serious case for the development of Ukraine in an undesirable sense for Russia, etc. Kornilov told me that , I remember his words perfectly, they struck me: “All this is nonsense, the main thing is war. Everything that at such a critical moment can strengthen our power, we must take. As for the Ukrainian Rada, we will find it out later. Ukrainize the corps” .. ..Pavel Skoropadsk th. "Memories" .....
  4. Curious
    Curious 20 February 2018 08: 44
    +6
    Reading such "hysterical works" one question arises. Really, those who "release into the world" all this informational smog do not understand its clearly destructive nature.
    For some reason, instead of qualified coverage of the history of the emergence and development of ethnopolitical problems, the reader receives some kind of mantra about the struggle of the superethnos with universal evil, which has nothing in common with history and does not serve anything constructive.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 09: 03
      +9
      Dear Curios, such opuses are issued by people who obviously do not need historical truth. They, pursuing their narrow political goals, are trying to replace the real story with a set of propaganda cliches, though not taking into account that the 21st century is in the yard, and any propaganda can easily be checked by more than one source of information.
      1. Curious
        Curious 20 February 2018 10: 08
        +4
        However, there is a paradox. Despite the opportunity to check and double-check, many people do not use this opportunity, but use taco chewing gum, moreover, using it as a foundation for shaping their worldview.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 10: 17
          +7
          Yes, this paradox, unfortunately, has a place to be. There are, alas, people who do not have the courage to face the truth and it is much easier for them to blame the negative phenomena of spies, traitors, conspirators from "ancient secret societies", etc. For such people, such opuses fall into very fertile soil.
        2. Antares
          Antares 21 February 2018 12: 05
          0
          Quote: Curious
          However, there is a paradox. Despite the opportunity to check and double-check, very many people do not use this opportunity, but use this chewing gum, moreover, using it as a foundation for shaping their worldview.

          In the age of information accessibility of various information, consumers of information easily choose the one they like.
          Does our mind choose the best product *? The best solution? We are the emotional kind, we choose emotions, instincts ... What LIKE. Well this is the usual selection to like / dislike .. We choose the opposite sex.
          Therefore, we are discussing the product of the information age. It is not truth, but only opinion. Those who take on faith any source of information, become his hostage.
          Many people are ready to accept any information, if it coincides with their opinion, point of view. Others tend to accept someone else's point of view. People are not ready to accept, but ready to read information, evaluate, give their arguments, there are few. Emotions prevail.
      2. avt
        avt 20 February 2018 10: 22
        +2
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        it’s the 21st century, and any propaganda can easily be verified by more than one source of information.

        Quote: Curious
        However, there is a paradox.

        Bolshevia, instead of shooting the same Alekseev as part of the Civil War, well, at least for
        In October 1917, Alekseev left Smolensk, where his family lived, to Petrograd to participate in the work of the Council of the Republic (“Pre-Parliament”). Here he proceeded to create an underground military organization built on a voluntary basis.
        Or
        During the October Revolution, Alekseev tried to organize a defense against the Bolsheviks of the General Staff building in Petrograd,
        Dali calmly jump to the Don. Like many just released on parole not to fight the Bolsheviks. However, it should be recognized
        Quote: Curious
        Despite the opportunity to check and double-check, many people do not use this opportunity, but use taco chewing gum, moreover, using it as a foundation for shaping their worldview.

        Remaining in the 90s, when kings walked around Moscow and there was always a “court”, the members of each other proved to them that they were definitely, if not descendants of the Romanovs, then Prince Golitsinsky, their cook-cap in the kitchen was knocked down.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 10: 39
          +6
          Quote: avt
          Dali calmly jump to the Don.

          The Bolsheviks hoped to attract officers to their side. Miscalculated. Most officers began to fight for Russia, and not for the "world revolution."
          Quote: avt
          Remaining in the 90s, when kings walked around Moscow and there was always a “court”, the members of each other proved to them that they were definitely, if not descendants of the Romanovs, then Prince Golitsinsky, their cook-cap in the kitchen was knocked down.

          Sorry, you so often mention the “Noble Meetings” of the 90s, that I suspiciously develop a suspicion that at that time you passionately wanted to get into one of those. But the trouble is, they refused you, despite all the tricks. Here you are gnawing resentment to this day. lol
          1. avt
            avt 20 February 2018 10: 58
            +1
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Sorry,

            Will not forgive. Unlike you
            Quote: avt
            they showed each other that they were surely, if not descendants of the Romanovs, then Prince Golitsynsky, as if their bastard-cook in the kitchen was knocked down.

            I honor and respect my ancestors. And when I was invited to your sects - set at a time. What not
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            resentment to this day.

            and funny memories how your “noble meetings” were built. “Nothing complicated compared to conversations with sectarians from totalitarian sects such as Dianetics. But you proletarian nobles really wrinkle from my words, because you feel your own subconsciousness.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 11: 28
              +6
              For very alternatively gifted, I repeat - I, unlike some, never aspired and never aspire to the self-styled nobility. And here is your boast that you allegedly once, somewhere, “built” someone, coupled with the accusations of each opposing opponent of conservative or monarchist views (and people who simply own cultural Russian speech) in unauthorized appropriation of titles leads to certain thoughts ... I met such behavior just among those who once passionately wanted to enter into such "sects" with the aim of further brandishing a "diploma of the princely title", but received a turn from these gates from the gates. Such people later tell stories with terrible snobbery as they "built these charlatans from the Proletarsky district."
              1. avt
                avt 20 February 2018 12: 13
                +2
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                And here is your boast,

                Statement of fact .
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                counter opponent conservative or monarchical views

                Not ,, opponent ", but quite a sectarian.
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                I met such behavior just among those who once passionately wanted to enter into such “sects” with the aim of further waving the “diploma of the princely title”, but received a turn from these gates from the gates.

                Where did they get their own. ,, diploma "to which they didn’t aspire"? bully Well, I really needed to visit these gatherings voluntarily giving into the wrong hands mental health, and mine - I had to get acquaintances and friends, not always successfully by the way. Often, in really totalitarian cases, lose people. But your monarchist tsarebozhiks, though stubborn, but can not be compared with network sects such as the Hare Krishnas, Aum Shinryokyo, who went underground by the way. Dianetics. But I see by external signs - you, well, Tsarebozhiks, slowly but surely begin to unwind already religious sects according to the old methods. Like ,, White Brotherhood ”of Mashka Zvigun and her lover-apostle Krivonogov. In Kiev, they really prepared the contingent - change the program and woo a la - Ukraine ponadusё.
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 13: 06
                  +4
                  Forgive me generously, but I will ask you again — are you friends with reality at all? Or do you prefer to pounce on people with fictitious accusations and are present in “VO” with the aim of quarreling with someone?
                  You first come up with some kind of “Tsaregozhniki”, then blame your opponents for belonging to them. Now you accuse me of having a certain “diploma” to which I “did not aspire” and, at the same time, hang up the charge of the self-styled nobility. I have strong doubts about your sanity after such accusations.
          2. avt
            avt 20 February 2018 11: 38
            +1
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            The Bolsheviks hoped to attract officers to their side. Miscalculated.

            bully Well, this is already real from the field of psychiatry! And this man is calling
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            face it

            bully Before you try to poke a little, work as a search engine or how many officers you served, and in fact created the Red Army under the political leadership of Trotsky.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 12: 01
              +5
              Quote: avt
              Well, this is already real from the field of psychiatry!

              From this area — Your comments, forgive me for my harshness. Read information on the social composition of officers in 1917. Look at how many representatives of the intelligentsia were there. Read about the socialist sentiments among the Russian intelligentsia in the pre-war and war periods. And then, perhaps, you will understand that the reckoning on the involvement of officers was far from groundless dreams.
              Quote: avt
              Well, how many officers he served, and indeed he created the Red Army under the political leadership of Trotsky.

              About 20% (data of the modern historian Volkov) or 30% (data of the Soviet historian Kavtoradze). From 50 to 61 percent — for whites. The rest are the armies of national formations, emigration-1917, desertion for a citizen.
              1. avt
                avt 20 February 2018 12: 17
                +2
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Read information on the social composition of officers in 1917. Look at how many representatives of the intelligentsia were there.

                bully That is, like officers ... but no matter how officers. So - the bull pissed at the front. bully
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 12: 41
                  +4
                  Quote: avt
                  That is, like officers ... but no matter how officers. So - the bull pissed at the front.

                  These are your words — not mine. And if in this light you perceive information about the political views of people who became officers in wartime ... then this perfectly illustrates your attitude to the Russian officers of the WWI, as well as your level of knowledge in the history of WWII and the Russian Imperial Army.
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 20 February 2018 13: 46
                    +2
                    Lieutenant, you are completely unproductive spending energy. Si autem abierunt.
                    1. Lieutenant Teterin
                      Lieutenant Teterin 20 February 2018 16: 52
                      +4
                      I agree with you. However, my efforts are mainly aimed not at Mr. avt, but at sane readers of VO.
                    2. avt
                      avt 20 February 2018 16: 53
                      +2
                      Quote: Curious
                      Lieutenant, you are completely unproductive spending energy. Si autem abierunt.
                      Similarly, the bird is visible on the flight!
                      bully
                      Quote: avt
                      Or is it Okara himself visited us?
                      Okara just like that, “from around the corner” loves to suck up in small phrases when there’s nothing to be said bully
                  2. avt
                    avt 20 February 2018 16: 48
                    +3
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    These are your words — not mine.

                    Mine, mine.
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    And if you perceive information about the political views of people in this light,

                    But to be a small cheater on the Internet is certainly painless, but for a self-positioning, “noble don” ..... Not comme il faut. I don’t have to attribute MY attitude to wartime officers immediately after
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    Read information on the social composition of officers in 1917. Look at how many representatives of the intelligentsia were there. Read about the socialist sentiments among the Russian intelligentsia in the pre-war and war periods.

                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    Your attitude to the Russian officers during the WWI,

                    It, like in any war, has two ratings, in the common people called -pan, or disappeared. The first world Russian officers lost completely at one goal, losing the Empire solely because of the betrayal of their own ruling class and the highest military leadership in particular. By the way, just like the USSR in 1991, and even more shamefully - absolutely in peacetime. This is a fact and no kind of emotion like, “apessad apitsa”, “aluba prince” with a specific prononce does not roll even a millimeter. What was proved in practice in the Second World War-Patriotic War. Which, for the most part, in conditions of more ... not just harsh, but simply destruction, was won by the Red Army-SA under the leadership of the same wartime officers, for the most part, clearly and toughly, right up to cruelty, sometimes led by the leaders of the highest party and economic leaders. leadership aimed at the VICTORY and brought the Soviet people to it. And everything else is an artistic whistle. Wars either win, or, even heroically, lose, and the vanquished cries, cursing their fate.
          3. MrK
            MrK 20 February 2018 14: 54
            +1
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Most officers began to fight for Russia, and not for the "world revolution."

            Officers from the old army fought on both sides. There were fifty-five thousand tsarist officers in the Red Army. In Belaya - forty thousand. But here the graduates of the most prestigious, most elite Nikolaev General Staff Academy of the Red Army served even more than the whites.
            In total, more than six hundred officers and generals of the General Staff were in the Red Army. Of the twenty commanders of the Red Fronts, seventeen were cadre officers of the tsarist era. All chiefs of staff of the fronts are former officers. Of the hundred commanders of the Red Armies, eighty-two are tsarist officers in the past. The Bolsheviks also had the former Minister of War Polivanov and Admiral Altfater.
            A huge role at the time was played by the appeal of a group of former tsarist generals, who called in 1920 for officers to go over to the Reds.
            Here are quotes: “The free Russian people freed all the peoples that were subject to it and made it possible for each of them to self-determine and arrange their own lives at their own discretion .... At this critical moment in our people’s life, we, your senior comrades, appeal to your feelings of love and devotion to your homeland and urge you ... to voluntarily go with complete selflessness and hunting into the Red Army and serve there not for fear and for conscience, so that with our honest service, not sparing our lives, to defend Russia at any cost to us and not to allow its plunder, because in the latter case it could irretrievably disappear, and then our descendants will curse us fairly ... for that that we ... do not use ovali his military knowledge and experience, have forgotten their native Russian people and ruined their Mother Russia. "
            The appeal was signed by famous and respected people in the old army: generals Polivanov, Zayonchkovsky, Klembovsky, Parsky, Baluyev, Akimov, Admiral Gutor. The first was the name of the most authoritative military commander, General A. Brusilov.
            And this appeal, by the way, was a huge success. After it appeared, another twenty thousand tsarist officers came to the Red Army.
    2. avt
      avt 20 February 2018 10: 06
      +3
      Quote: Curious
      For some reason, instead of qualified coverage of the history of the emergence and development of ethnopolitical

      How is that? Like how to learn geography on the globe of Ukraine? bully You see an ardent admirer of Opara's opuses - vaguely about everything and about nothing specifically, but most importantly - pathetic! bully
      1. Curious
        Curious 20 February 2018 10: 12
        +3
        "And how is that?"
        And this is what up. Once again, you are raising a wave where you completely lack relevant knowledge. Therefore, my comment also aroused your amazement and the only question, “How is this?” Here, get ready, accumulate knowledge, then come. While there is not even a desire to waste time. All the best.
        1. avt
          avt 20 February 2018 11: 39
          +2
          Quote: Curious
          . Once again, you are raising a wave where you completely lack relevant knowledge.

          what Or is it Okara himself visited us? bully
  5. BAI
    BAI 20 February 2018 13: 00
    +3
    As a result of two-month bloody battles, Soviet troops cleared the whites and white Cossacks of the Don. Also, Soviet troops defeated the forces of the Central Council, taking Kiev on February 8, 1918.

    There was no Soviet army then! Errors in the small give rise to distrust in the big.
    In February 1946, the Red Army was officially renamed the "Soviet Army".
  6. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 20 February 2018 17: 51
    +2
    Separatists are Russia's eternal misfortune. Any softening of the attitude towards them will inevitably lead to problems.
  7. Lexus
    Lexus 20 February 2018 20: 42
    +1
    The tradition of "spoiling the air" with Svidomo has a long history ...
  8. XII Legion
    XII Legion 20 February 2018 21: 04
    +18
    Let the one who dumps everything in a heap
    reads memoirs of eyewitnesses of those terrible days
    People were ready to dump anywhere in those days - to the south of Russia, to Ukraine, etc.
    The main thing is to get away from central Russia - and the nightmares of the regime of War Communism, coupled with the dictatorship of the "proletariat", that is, not so much the proletariat itself, as the "intelligentsia" and "semi-intellectuals" of one of the parties that seized power as a result of a coup d'etat
  9. LeonidL
    LeonidL 21 February 2018 05: 41
    0
    It is interesting to read about the White Movement "from within" and the reasons for its collapse - the primary sources - Shulgin "1920", Drozdovsky's "Diary ..", Mamontov "People and Horses", General Shkuro "Notes of the White Partisan". These little-known sources show the White movement from within very well, including the relationship with the Ukrainian national authorities, Austrians and Germans.
  10. Antares
    Antares 21 February 2018 12: 16
    +1
    Everything is clear with the author, the “Ukrainian chimera” has kindled a civil one and encroached on a superethnos.
    The church of the 16th century again, again we ..
    The comments were interesting ... Truth did not even try to participate. Among Russians / Russians there is still no non-conflicting topic of their past. Especially 1917 and the GV. Who is to blame - the eternal question. And they begin to argue so that only checkers can be distributed and banners can be sewn. The units of the opponents are ready.
    Do you ever make peace inside? And then according to the comments, I really returned to this era, when the brother of the brother, the citizens of one country enthusiastically slaughtered each other ... Moreover, the horses mixed up in a heap, and not only one side was also “partners” from other blocks.
    The past of Russia is harsh, it must be accepted as it is. Do not be shy about losing, learn from, accept the mistakes of the past, do not exalt or create an idol. They usually love with their hearts. Despite the flaws. So put the checkers back. This is the past, the future ahead and the present outside the window.
    1. Curious
      Curious 21 February 2018 13: 40
      0
      So this condition is artificially maintained! Very convenient for diverting attention from pressing issues. If you notice, almost all articles are in the nature of a sketch. Open the "History" section. Where is the story? At Shpakovsky. The rest are on the fan. But such a character, if desired, can be given to any historical event. Ukraine is simply among such events. Very comfortable position.
  11. Serg65
    Serg65 21 February 2018 13: 12
    +2
    Nikitin,
    Quote: Nikitin-
    He swore allegiance to the Emperor, but the Emperors said to obey the EP.

    Oh, that you have tired of me with your false obstinacy!
    Do you recall the request of Chief of Staff Alekseev to the front commander for abdication?
    Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich also violated the oath the day before the Tsar’s abdication and, as a means of pressure on him, removed his Guards crew from the protection of the Tsar’s family, appeared under the red flag in the State Duma, providing the newly-born rescuers of the fatherland with their guards to guard the arrested Tsar’s ministers and issued an appeal to other troops to join the new government!
    “treason and cowardice and deceit are all around” - the last entry in the royal diary made on the night before renunciation. It was one of the creators of the conspiracy, Adjutant General Alekseev, who contributed to the appointment of Kornilov as commander of the Petrograd Military District, in order to discern the monarchical speeches of all the Kutepovs, Drozdovskys, Khans of Nakhichivansky and Kornilov there, he did his dirty work perfectly, moreover, he personally awarded the non-commissioned officer Pola Voly with the George Cross the fact that on February 27 1917 shot him in the back with the head of the training team of the Volyn regiment, staff captain Lashkevich!
    What's wrong?
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 23 February 2018 09: 21
      0
      Quote: Serg65
      Oh, that you have tired of me with your false obstinacy!

      Militant ignorance is observed in you.
      Quote: Serg65
      Do you recall the request of Chief of Staff Alekseev to the front commander for abdication?

      And? request
      Quote: Serg65
      It was one of the creators of the conspiracy, Adjutant General Alekseev, who contributed to the appointment of Kornilov as commander of the Petrograd Military District

      Alekseev was not a participant in the conspiracy, as evidenced by the fact that 1 telegrams of his confrontations were sent AFTER the capture of Petrograd by deserters and lumpen, the destruction of the Cabinet and AFTER the creation of the so-called Petrosovet. SO are the conspirators AFTER the events? belay
      Quote: Serg65
      Alekseev contributed to the appointment of Kornilov as the commander of the Petrograd Military District, in order to pinpoint the monarchical speeches of all the Kutepovs, Drozdovskys, Khans of Nakhichivansky and Kornilov there did an excellent job

      Kornilov’s candidacy was nominated the chief of the General Staff General Mikhnevich and the chief of the Special Department for the designation of army ranks, General Arkhangelsky, Alekseev only transferred it to the Emperor for approval.
      Quote: Serg65
      in order to discern the monarchical uprisings of all the Kutepovs, Drozdovskys, Khans of Nakhichivans and Kornilov there perfectly did their dirty work

      What Drozdovsky in March 1917, what is the matter with you? belay Yes, and Kornilov arrived in Petrograd March 5 only- WHEN is he “presek”? After .... renunciation? fool
      Quote: Serg65
      Moreover, with his own hand, he awarded the non-commissioned officer of the Volyn regiment Kirpichnikov with the George Cross for the fact that on February 27, 1917 he shot the head of the training team of the Volyn regiment, staff captain Lashkevich!

      Not the Kornilov awarded but the TEMPORARY GOVERNMENT, he only complied with the decision. You are not familiar with the award procedure?
  12. Monarchist
    Monarchist 21 February 2018 15: 46
    0
    The author had a good idea: to tell how they reacted to the Provisional Government in the south, but did not finish it: he talked about the Kaledin government, but for some reason forgot about the Kuban Regional Council and immediately jumped to the Central Council in Ukraine.
    "Kaledin formally refused" to give shelter to the Russian Ocritism "because the so-called" Volunteer Army "did not have a base for formation, Kaledin and his entourage" Volunteers "called:" wandering musicians ", and one of the volunteers spoke about the Kaledin government:" pr *** in the bed of the German General Staff. "And the Kaledins cocked up:" volunteers "the cat on the pillow at pro *** po." So that their relationship was "cordial"
    Neutrality later led to the Veshensky Uprising. When the Cossacks became more acquainted with their comrades: Apfelbaum, Bronstein, Ioffe, Rosenfeld and other Russophobes.
    The reasons for the Veshensky uprising can be read from Sholokhov, very, very many in Moscow did not like the book "Quiet Don" and M. A. .. Actually they dictated how to write, you can read about this in the letters of Sholokhov himself. By the way, the academic publication of Quiet Don was published and it would be nice to compare how the author immediately wanted to write