Military Review

Who incited the Civil War

151
Who incited the Civil War

In post-Soviet Russia, the Bolsheviks were accused of inciting the Civil War. They say that they overthrew the "legitimate" Provisional Government, dispersed the Constituent Assembly, by their decrees they destroyed the bourgeois-democratic republic that had begun to take shape. Destroyed democratic Russia, following the path of reunification with the European civilization. They unleashed the "red terror", destroying the best part of the Russian people: the aristocracy, the nobility, the clergy, the Russian intelligentsia, the merchants and the bourgeoisie as a whole.


At the same time they killed Tsar Nicholas, his family. This allowed us to create the myth that it was the Bolsheviks who destroyed the autocracy, overthrew the tsar and destroyed the Russian empire. And then, in order to retain power and create their own “bloody” totalitarian empire (in the West, it would later be called the “evil empire”), they drowned the country in blood. Attempts by the “noble” whites to save Russia, “the one and indivisible”, failed due to excessive “chivalry”. The Reds acted cruelly and bloody, not afraid of massacres. Crowds of peasants were driven into their army, barrage detachments of internationalist revolutionaries (Chinese, Hungarians, Latvians, etc.) were set up in the rear, and small white troops were filled up with cannon fodder.

Thus, the alleged Bolsheviks and staged a bloody Troubles in Russia, which led to the death of "old Russia", millions of victims and the creation of a "bloody" Red Empire, the "Soviet concentration camp." This myth is very beneficial to the West, as it allows to solve a wide range of tasks. First, to morally crush the Russian people, to make them forever "guilty" in all possible and impossible sins. It turns out that the USSR was not the most advanced country on the planet, having made a leap forward for hundreds of years to create a just order in the interests of the people, but a "concentration camp" where the "best part" of the Russian people was exterminated and only scoops-slaves remained.

Secondly, to use this myth in the information war against Russia, to make excuses, apologize. To create the image of the Russian "evil empire", "Russian Mordor" in the eyes of the western man in the street. That allows you to use in the fight against Russia any methods and justify them in advance. Like, with the "Russian subhuman (orcs)" in another way and not.

Thirdly, one can constantly clash, set off Russians with small nations that were still part of Russia, or nations that were separated during the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire, and were also part of the socialist camp. To speculate on the theme of “Russian (Soviet) occupation”, unjust deportation, Russian colonialism, etc. We agreed that Stalin’s empire was worse than the Hitler Reich and the Red Army did not liberate Europe, but “occupied”. Also bring Russia all sorts of bills for the "occupation" and "colonization." All this is done easily, so in Russia itself the Soviet period stories It is considered a significant part of the "elite" lost, defective.

Fourth, it is possible to conduct informational work on the final "recoding" (programming) of the top of the Russian Federation. She is gradually declared the heiress of the elite of the Russian Empire, removing the Soviet period. And for the "new nobility" in the West partners. The USSR is a "mistake of history." Russia is the periphery of a western (European) civilization, and not a separate original Russian civilization. Bourgeois-democratic, capitalist, and in fact, non-slave-owning, system is normal.

In reality, Russian distemper 1917-1920's. was caused by two determining factors. The first is the millennial confrontation between Russia and the West. The masters of the West have been building the world slave-owning order from century to century - this is their main goal. Complete, absolute subordination of man to the will of the "master-elect".

Russia is the main opponent of Western “masons-architects”. In Russia, there is an image of a fair world order, without parasitizing the few "chosen" over the masses. Therefore, the West is always focused on solving the “Russian question” - the destruction of the Russian civilization and the Russian matrix-code (social justice and ethics of conscience). And for this it is necessary to dismember and destroy the Russian superethnos, with reprogramming and assimilating its remnants, turning the Russians into ethnographic material, which in the second generation will become part of the American, British, French, Turkish, Chinese, etc.

Therefore, the masters of the West, seeing the weakness of the Russian Empire and the project of the Romanovs (which was generally aimed at merging with the "enlightened West"), which was shown during the Crimean War, the war with Japan and the First Revolution, relied on the destruction of Tsarist Russia. All methods and tools were used: from drawing Russia into a suicidal world war and the destructive actions of diplomats and special services to activating the numerous “fifth column”, which was provided with organizational, material support in organizing the revolution.

The main detonator for the destruction of the Russian Empire was the First World War, unleashed by the masters of France, England and the United States. The war was supposed to destroy the old empires - Russian, Austro-Hungarian, German and Turkish. This made it possible to build a “new world order” based on “democratic values”. In reality, all the real power belonged to financial capital - the “gold elite” (“financial international”, “owners of money”, “global backstage”, etc.). The “democratically elected” presidents, prime ministers, governments, parliaments, governors, senators and deputies were only a cover for the real owners of the planet.

The war allowed Russia to blow up a weakened internal problems of Russia from the inside. The second factor that destroyed the Russian empire and autocracy is the fundamental internal contradictions. If the organism of the Russian Empire were healthy, no external "viruses" could have destroyed it.

The West has repeatedly tried to crush the Russian state, but all its attacks were repulsed - the war with the Swedish empire, the invasion of Napoleon’s all-European army, the Decembrist uprising, the Eastern (Crimean) war, provoked by the Westerners, the attacks of Persia and Turkey. However, by the end of XIX - beginning of XX centuries. it became clear that the Russian Empire was seriously ill. For centuries, the accumulated contradictions and faults had to be resolved by the “revolution from above,” otherwise unrest was inevitable. Nicholas I and Alexander III "frozen" the empire, restraining the destructive processes. Under Alexander II, they tried to follow the path of liberalization and the Western way - the development of capitalist and bourgeois relations, which only “rocked the boat”.

Under Nicholas II, Russia approached the "break point". It was necessary to resolve the urgent problems, or they were culturally lagging behind the advanced Western powers (the elite spoke Western languages, preferred to live in Western capitals, dressed in Western fashion, etc.), financial and technological dependence on them, made Russian semi-colony. The government of Nikolai Alexandrovich led a controversial policy - at the same time trying to “freeze” the situation and reform Russia by indulging the iberales-Westerners. This finally destabilized the situation. At the same time, St. Petersburg allowed the West to push us against Japan, which became a rehearsal of a world war and showed the weakness of Russia to the Westernizers. They were able to suppress the first revolution, but it was clear that a new big war could lead to a powerful social explosion and confusion. The most far-sighted people in Russia understood this perfectly well - Stolypin, Durnovo, Rasputin, Alexey Vandam, but they were not heard. And Stolypin and Rasputin, who could have an impact on the king, physically eliminated. As a result, Russia was confronted with Germany, which allowed the owners of the West to organize February and crush the autocracy.

The masters of the West would not have been able to destroy the autocracy and the empire of the Romanovs if Russia had not matured for this. Under the Romanovs, “mines” were laid in Russia, which led to the 1917 disaster of the year. There were several main such “mines”. First, under Nikon and later (especially under Peter I), Russian Orthodoxy underwent a split and was emasculated, lost its fiery essence. The best part of the Russian people - the Old Believers, with their ethics of conscience and spiritual purity, diligence, refusal from the dope - tobacco and alcohol, were excluded from common life, were subjected to brutal repression and eventually created their own world. Nikonian Orthodoxy became official, form without content. Russia has lost its "connection with the sky", spiritual nourishment. By 1917, the majority of the population was indifferent to Christianity, only outwardly being Christians (by the end of the USSR, the same thing happened with the communist ideology, which led to the 1985-1993 catastrophe). Hence the 1917 disaster and the following years, when churches and monasteries were destroyed, the clergy were destroyed, and the people for the most part looked at it indifferently. The clergy lost the "holy spirit" (except for individual righteous and old men) and ceased to be one of their pillars of the Russian state.

Second, the social justice was destroyed in the Russian Empire. Earlier, the Russian people were also divided into higher classes — nobles (boyars, boyars' children) and working people. But this was due to the need for constant mobilization of forces and means. Russia-Russia almost all the time fought. Nobles received the use of the peasants to be able to arm themselves, arm the servants and go to war at the first request of the prince-king. They paid for the elite status with blood and sweat, personal life-long service and the service of children. Under the Romanovs, this system was destroyed. Nobles were able to live social parasites all their lives. While a significant part of the nobility served honestly, there were Rumyantsevs, Suvorovs, Ushakovs, Nakhimovs, Kutuzovs and Bagration. But by the end of the existence of the empire a significant part of the aristocracy and nobility degenerated, forgot how to fight, wanted to live in luxury and luxury (preferably in the capital or abroad). And the overwhelming part of the people - the peasants, felt this universal injustice (especially considering the still unresolved land issue), and was eager to restore justice.

Thirdly, the Romanovs split the people not only into Nikonians and Old Believers, but also into “European nobles” and the rest of the people (more than 90%). The top society "lived in Europe" - spoke German, French and English, dressed in European fashion, lived in Western Europe for a long time (often and most of her life), read European literature, admired European achievements of art, science and technology, built palaces (instead of schools, manufactories and railways). And the means for the “beautiful life” were sucked out of Russia and the people. The common people as a whole preserved Russian culture and language.

The rest of these fundamental errors also occurred. In particular, the foreign policy of St. Petersburg was often in the interests of the European capitals - Berlin, Vienna, Paris and London, and not the Russian people. Russian soldiers were often used as cannon fodder. For example, a series of wars with France, Napoleon was in the interests of Austria, Prussia and England. And the Russians and the French had no reason to kill each other. The First World War solved the global interests of the owners of the West, the strategic interests of the United States, Britain, France. The Russians and the Germans had no reason to kill each other.

Thus, the forces and means, the time of Russia and the Russian people were spent in the name of foreign interests. Although Russia's global interests were in the South and East. Russia had to solve the thousand-year task of mastering Constantinople-Constantinople, the straits. To secure the Caucasus, including the Armenian regions remaining under the Turks, to go to Persia and India to the southern seas. In the East, to preserve and develop Russian America (the sale of Russian America is one of the most serious strategic mistakes of the Romanovs), taking control of the northern part of the Pacific Ocean, to firmly establish itself in Korea and China. Japan could be our partner and ally, helping to contain the Anglo-Saxons in the Pacific. That is, the Romanov empire missed the opportunity to launch the process of Russian globalization. With the simultaneous accelerated development of the Russian North, Siberia, the Far East and Turkestan.

Not to mention the need for the development of Russian education and science, the education of the whole people, forced industrialization, the solution of land and work issues, the elimination of distortions in national politics (in particular, Finnish, Polish issues). All this was not done by the Romanovs, which caused the collapse of their project. These problems and contradictions were solved by the Bolsheviks.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
151 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Square
    Square 1 February 2018 06: 46
    +7
    Who fomented the Civil?
    Two (or all) are always to blame.
    The rest is from the evil one
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 1 February 2018 07: 39
      12
      Of course, violence is always * both to blame *. Robbers and slave traders arguing about the rights and legality of ownership of slaves and looted, of course outraged. And today there are those who make claims for the ancestors of the robbers. Or maybe it's worth making a claim for the centuries-old slave trade and for what accompanied the slave trade?
      I wish everyone who talks about * mutual responsibility * get to the robbers and with their family.
      The meanness is that both the Poles and other Europeans began to make claims to the SOVIET UNION and the RED ARMY, forgiving themselves everything they did.
      1. Luga
        Luga 1 February 2018 12: 05
        +4
        Quote: Vasily50
        Of course, violence is always * both to blame *.

        Russians are to blame for the violence. Or, if you want, subjects of the Russian Empire, regardless of nationality.
        Quote: Vasily50
        I wish everyone who talks about * mutual responsibility * get to the robbers and with their family.

        What would you personally wish with your family? For your thoughts and reasoning? Spend the rest of your life in the company of the demented? Well, if it’s only for you, and your family does it? She is sorry, she wanted nothing to anyone.
        Okay, until I want nothing. I will look at your further behavior. You will continue to “desire” for something without getting into it, I will begin to wish you in return. In the meantime, I’ll wait.
        1. dSK
          dSK 1 February 2018 17: 04
          +3
          Quote: Luga
          regardless

          Quote: Samsonov
          These problems and contradictions decided by the Bolsheviks.
          "Victory has seven mothers; defeat is always an orphan."
          Judged not by words, but by deeds. What remains of the USSR? Where are they "ideological" the Bolsheviks? Relocated to Mars?
          1. Luga
            Luga 1 February 2018 18: 02
            +4
            Quote: dsk
            What remains of the USSR? Where are they "ideological" Bolsheviks? Relocated to Mars?

            How do I know? Here on the site there are both convinced monarchists and convinced communists, they are better informed, and ask them.
            Personally, their discussions are parallel to me. I myself, if you are interested, consider the civil war a great misfortune and shame for the country, the result of a deep split in society, so deep that it could not be overcome in any other way than war.
        2. Serg koma
          Serg koma 3 February 2018 12: 52
          +2
          Civil war is a war of CLASS contradictions. In this article, the author refutes (on some points) himself. For example:
          In Russia there is an image of a fair world order, without parasitism of the few “chosen ones” over the masses of the people.[/B]

          Earlier, the Russian people were also divided into the upper class - [b] nobles (boyars, children of the boyars) and working people

          Until 1861, serfdom was in the country..
          My personal opinion is that before the Civil War, the people brought tsarism through their domestic and foreign policies. Liberals (as now) only helped to rock the "boat".
    2. Vend
      Vend 1 February 2018 09: 51
      +4
      Quote: Square
      Who fomented the Civil?
      Two (or all) are always to blame.
      The rest is from the evil one

      It is true that no one has ignited the Civil War. Two ideologies converged, two faiths in Russia. Blaming one side is myopia.
      1. ALEA IACTA EST
        ALEA IACTA EST 1 February 2018 11: 09
        +2
        Belief in Russia in every word.
        Under such conditions, it is very natural that the “freedom to leave the union”, which we justify ourselves, will turn out to be an empty piece of paper, unable to protect Russian foreigners from the invasion of that truly Russian man, a Great Russian chauvinist, in essence, a scoundrel and a rapist, which is a typical Russian bureaucrat . There is no doubt that an insignificant percentage of Soviet and Soviet workers will sink in this sea of ​​chauvinistic Great Russian trash, like a fly in milk.
        They say in defense of this measure that they have allocated the people's commissariats relating directly to national psychology and national education. But the question is whether these drug commissariats can be distinguished completely, and the second question, have we taken measures with sufficient care to really protect the aliens from the true Russian state? I think that we did not take these measures, although we could and should have taken.
        I think that the haste and administrative enthusiasm of Stalin, as well as his bitterness against the notorious “social-nationalism,” played a fatal role here. Bitterness generally plays the worst role in politics.

        .
        I already wrote in my works on the national question that the abstract statement of the question of nationalism in general is worthless. Must be distinguished
        nationalism of the oppressed nation and nationalism of the oppressed nation, nationalism of a large nation and nationalism of a small nation.
        In relation to the second nationalism, almost always in historical practice, we, the nationals of a large nation, are guilty of an infinite amount of violence, and even more so - imperceptibly commit an infinite amount of violence and insults - one can only recall my Volga recollections of how we are being harassed by foreigners, just as the Pole is not called a “Pole”, like a Tatar they are not ridiculed otherwise than a “prince,” a Ukrainian, other than a “crest”, a Georgian, and other Caucasian foreigners — like a “Kapkaz man.”
        Therefore, internationalism on the part of the oppressing or the so-called “great” nation (although great only by its violence, great only as great as the Grand Mordion) should consist not only in the observance of the formal equality of nations, but also in such inequality that would compensate the oppressing nation , a nation large, the inequality that actually develops in life. He who did not understand this, he did not understand the truly proletarian attitude to the national question, he essentially remained on the petty-bourgeois point of view, and therefore could not but slide down every minute to the bourgeois point of view.
        What is important for the proletariat? For the proletariat, it is not only important, but also essential, to ensure it with a maximum of confidence in the proletarian class struggle on the part of foreigners. What is needed for this? This requires not only formal equality. To do this, one way or another must be compensated by his conversion or his concessions to the foreigner for that distrust, that suspicion, those insults that were made to him in the historical past by the government of the "great-power" nation.
        I think that for the Bolsheviks, for the Communists it is not necessary to explain this further and in detail. And I think that in this case, in relation to the Georgian nation, we have a typical example of where pure caution, courtesy and compliance are required on our part by a truly proletarian attitude to the cause. The Georgian who neglects this side of the matter is dismissively thrown by the accusation of “social nationalism” (while he himself is a real and true not only “social nationalism”, but also a rude Great Russian mordoy), that Georgian, in essence, violates the interests of proletarian class solidarity, because nothing hinders the development and consolidation of proletarian class solidarity than national injustice, and “offended” nationals are not so sensitive as to a sense of equality and violation of this equality, even if only by negligence , even if only in the form of a joke, to the violation of this equality by their comrades proletarians. That is why in this case it is better to salt in the direction of pliability and leniency towards national minorities than undersalt. That is why in this case the fundamental interest of proletarian solidarity, and consequently of the proletarian class struggle, requires that we never formally relate to the national question, but always take into account the mandatory difference in relation to the proletariat of the oppressed (or small) nation to the oppressing (or big) .

        (Lenin, "On the question of nationalities or on" autonomy "")
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 09
          -1
          Absolutely correct.
    3. captain
      captain 1 February 2018 10: 19
      +8
      Quote: Square
      Who fomented the Civil?
      Two (or all) are always to blame.
      The rest is from the evil one

      "The transformation of modern imperialist war into a civil war is the only correct proletarian slogan!"
      Lenin V.I. Complete Works.t 26
      and everything else is from the evil one. The Bolsheviks needed a civil war to destroy the ruling class and the people who could resist the Bolsheviks. Read those of Trotsky (Lenin's comrade-in-arms).
      1. hhhhhhh
        hhhhhhh 9 August 2018 10: 43
        0
        The whites did not want the Civil War, they were forced by the Bolsheviks. What did they write about the civil war in the complete works of the white movement?
        Trotsky was for the world revolution, the civil war a minor episode.
    4. Looking for
      Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 02
      0
      Civil war is one of the MANDATORY conditions of the PRESENT! "principal" revolutions. Do not agree? Then explain to me the lack of civil wars during the whole series of European Bourgeois revolutions of the XIX century, and the most bloody civil wars after the English. French American and Russian revolutions.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 1 February 2018 07: 11
    +7
    in order to maintain power and create his totalitarian empire, drowned the country in blood. Reds acted cruelly and bloody nwere not afraid of mass murdersa. Driven in their army crowds of peasants in the rear barrage squads from internationalist revolutionaries (Chinese, Hungarians, Latvians, etc.),
    All data the author has listed correctly, it is impossible to challenge them
    World War I, unleashed masters of France, England and the USA.
    The war was unleashed on August 1, 1914 German attack to Russia. just like WWII attack on Poland.
    If the body of the Russian Empire was healthy, no external “viruses” could destroy it.
    He was no worse than others. But when the body is weakened by an unprecedented war, the "plague bacilli" of the Bolsheviks (according to Churchill), brought in by external enemies from the outside, become mortally dangerous .. And Stalin knew this, immediately destroying potential "peacekeepers" -bacilli at the beginning of the war.
    .
    The best part of the Russian people are Old Believers,

    Those. Hundreds of millions of millions are the worst part ?!
    Again, the Russian people did not please someone .. request
    1. Andy
      Andy 1 February 2018 07: 30
      +8
      also apply to myrrh-streaming bust?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 February 2018 07: 55
        +7
        Quote: Andy
        Auger to myrrh-streaming bust?

        Fi ... No. You really somehow yourself, without me, attach to the grandfather, "eternally alive" .. yes
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 1 February 2018 07: 39
      +7
      Olgovich, let me correct you a little: the WWI began with the attack of Austria-Hungary on the Serie and at the same time concentrated its forces on the Russian border, and Russia tried to STOP THE WAR WITH ALL FORCES. This can be read from A.I. Denikin: "The path of the Russian officer"
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 February 2018 08: 44
        +5
        Quote: Monarchist
        Olgovich, allow me to slightly correct you: WWI began with the attack of Austria-Hungary on the Series

        It was a conflict between 2 countries. And with the attack on Russia, the World began.
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 10
          -1
          are you or or so?
    3. like this
      like this 1 February 2018 08: 03
      +4
      uncle with the attack on August 1 to Russia you need to teach history to school, well, or to Wikipedia
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 08: 41
        +5
        "Nephew", according to the norms of the law of that time, declaring war was equated to an attack and was considered an act of aggression. After this act, German troops at any time could enter the territory of Russia.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 February 2018 10: 14
        +4
        Quote: here you go
        uncle with the attack on August 1 to Russia you need to teach history to school, well, or to Wikipedia

        Aunt, tell me what you special lol school "taught" " hi
    4. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 11: 29
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      Those. Hundreds of millions of millions are the worst part ?! Again, the Russian people did not please someone ..

      So this is a common method now. Russophobes dress up in Russophiles and push their Russophobian line. Like this "author" continues to divide the Russians into "white", "red" and others. For the sole purpose - to push each other, to continue the civil war. Enemy, definitely.
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 19
        0
        You are right in everything. For any ... fiction thought can be expressed in such a way that in its hidden meaning it turns into ... phobic. Any discussion causes doubt, uncertainty. in the truth of their convictions. This is the MAIN GOAL. such as "olgovich" .- to sow doubt.
    5. Looking for
      Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 05
      -1
      So what are you sitting here in Siberia there are still Old Believers.
  3. Monarchist
    Monarchist 1 February 2018 07: 27
    +5
    Quote: Square
    Who fomented the Civil?
    Two (or all) are always to blame.
    The rest is from the evil one

    It’s definitely not without the evil one
  4. sibiryak10
    sibiryak10 1 February 2018 07: 46
    +6
    So who fired the Civil War according to the author of the article?
    Again, some vague "West"
    There was no "West", each country decided its own interests. Or was the Franco-Prussian war directed against Russia? laughing laughing laughing
    The Russian Empire lost the Crimean War, lost the Russo-Japanese War. Russia was forced to reconcile with Turkey in 1878, when Turkey was almost defeated. What extension is the author raving about?
    What is the process of "Russian globalization" when the empire is shaken by famine and peasant riots, and most of the population is illiterate?
    What could we offer to neighboring nations?
    Therefore, the White Army lost in the Civil. There was nothing for them to offer the people of Russia - "they are terribly far from the people."
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 08: 37
      +7
      Quote: sibiryak10
      The Russian Empire lost the Crimean War, lost the Russo-Japanese War. R

      Actually, in the Crimean Russia fought against the two strongest states of the planet at that time. And our enemies had plans — to tear off the Baltic states, Crimea and the Caucasus. But the coalition only managed to occupy the southern part of Sevastopol during the year, after which the coalition countries willingly went to peace talks. So the dubious defeat is rather a draw from the war. We could not expel the enemy from our land, but the enemy also did not achieve our goals.
      Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peaceful negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army.
      Quote: sibiryak10
      the empire is shaken by famine and peasant riots, and most of the population are illiterate?

      The last documented famine in the Republic of Ingushetia is 1892. Later local crop failures were compensated by the redistribution of food from productive regions. After 1907, "riots" became part of history, it became very difficult for agitators to confuse people's minds, the government actively eliminated possible causes for public indignation. And about illiteracy ... the budget of the Ministry of Education by 1913 has grown significantly. Data is in statistical reference books for those years.
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 1 February 2018 09: 09
        +6
        Lieutenant, in my Crimean War I agree 100%
      2. your1970
        your1970 1 February 2018 09: 16
        +5
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peaceful negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army.
        Is Port Arthur and Tsushima also because of the "terrorist war in the rear"? or all the same mediocrity of the fleet / army / industry tried?
        1. Dzmicer
          Dzmicer 1 February 2018 10: 10
          +4

          That feeling when the Japanese have a better opinion of Russia and the Russian imperial army than advisers.
          Just as Russophobes were defeatists from the very beginning, so still they remain.
        2. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 11: 19
          +6
          Port Arthur actually held out for six months against the superior forces of the enemy. And Japanese General Nogi wanted to make seppuku because of the amount of losses. And in the end, he committed, after the death of the Emperor, who forbade him to commit suicide.
          In the Tsushima tragedy, the death of the squadron headquarters led by the admiral played an important role. Without proper control, the outcome of the battle was a foregone conclusion.
          1. Andy
            Andy 1 February 2018 12: 12
            +3
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            In the Tsushima tragedy, the death of the squadron headquarters led by the admiral played an important role.

            Lieutenant Golitsyn, in general, everyone except the stubborn monarchist is aware of the capture of both the admiral and the headquarters. although what to expect from a person who does not recognize the facts
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 13: 28
              +4
              My mistake. I mixed up with the battle in the Yellow Sea. In Tsushima, on the “Prince Suvorov,” the signal halyards failed and the flagship lost the ability to lead the battle. In general, the effect is the same as the destruction of the squadron headquarters
              1. Andy
                Andy 1 February 2018 15: 31
                +3
                nothing wrong. you confuse warm with soft not get used to. because Suvorov was out of order, little depended on anything; at half the speed he could neither catch up nor leave. why there is a signal.
              2. Looking for
                Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 25
                +1
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                My mistake. I mixed up with the battle in the Yellow Sea. In Tsushima, on the “Prince Suvorov,” the signal halyards failed and the flagship lost the ability to lead the battle. In general, the effect is the same as the destruction of the squadron headquarters

                Well, just like a snake in a pan you get out.
          2. your1970
            your1970 1 February 2018 15: 28
            +4
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            Port Arthur actually held out for six months against the superior forces of the enemy.
            -And then they surrendered it - although it was possible to continue the defense .... And even the Japanese admitted it.
        3. captain
          captain 1 February 2018 17: 46
          +2
          Quote: your1970
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peaceful negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army.
          Is Port Arthur and Tsushima also because of the "terrorist war in the rear"? or all the same mediocrity of the fleet / army / industry tried?

          It’s like in 41, especially the Germans were pulled to Moscow, deceived, such a maneuver. Then to arrange a rout for them. And in 42, before Stalingrad they were admitted by a cunning maneuver, and then they all were covered at once. The talent among our commanders was so specific.
      3. smaug78
        smaug78 1 February 2018 10: 15
        +2
        Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peace negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army. It's funny)))
        1. Dzmicer
          Dzmicer 1 February 2018 10: 46
          +6
          What is funny? That every day on average 10 civil servants / officers / police / random people were killed? Not to mention raids and "exs."
          You have little idea of ​​the scope of the terrorist war that was being waged against Russia at that time.
          1. smaug78
            smaug78 1 February 2018 11: 01
            +6
            "You have little idea of ​​the scope of the terrorist war that was being waged against Russia at that time." So why, let's discuss:
            1904
            January 27, 1904 - attack on Port Arthur and the battle of the "Varyag" at Chemulpo. February-April - Japanese troops occupy Pyongyang and go to the Yalu River. - The revolution in Russia does not even smell - there is a powerful patriotic upsurge.
            February 24 - the beginning of the siege of Port Arthur, the Russian squadron is locked in the harbor. No revolution.
            On April 18, the Russian army was defeated in Yalu, the invasion of Manchuria began. And again, no backstabs from the revolution.
            April 22-30, the landing of the Japanese on the Liaodong Peninsula. The Russian fleet and ground forces are inactive. No revolution.
            On May 29, the port of Dalniy was delivered without a fight. Again no revolution.
            On June 1-2, at Wafangou, the General Stackelberg’s release corps was defeated. And again, without revolutionary action.
            July 13-August 9 - Port Arthur is blocked from land. The revolutionaries are inactive.
            July 28 - Breakthrough attempt from Port Arthur, battle of squadrons in the East Sea. Commander Witgeft died, the ships returned to the harbor. There is no revolution.
            On August 11, Kuropatkin stupidly loses the Liaoyang battle. There is no revolution.
            On August 14, the Vladivostok detachment of cruisers was intercepted by a squadron of Admiral Kamimura in the Korea Strait. Destroyed the cruiser "Rurik", the revolutionaries are still waiting.
            September 22 - lost battle on the river. Shahe. The revolution does not begin.
            On October 2, a squadron of Admiral Rozhdestvensky sets out on campaign from Libau. There is no revolution.
            1905
            On January 2, 1905, Port Arthur fell. And again, without a hint of revolutionary action.
            January 12 - the Battle of Sandep - the first revolutionary uprising, which still can not affect the course of the war.
            February 6-March 10, the lost battle of Mukden. The revolution is only gaining momentum, being in an unorganized phase.
            May 14-15 - the disaster of the fleet under Tsushima. We agree. that the fleet, speaking in October last year, could not in any way depend on the revolution in the metropolis.
            July 7-29 - capture of Sakhalin. Only now the revolution is in full swing.
            Thanks for the work of HanTengri !!!
            That every day on average 10 civil servants / officers / police / random people were killed? Not to mention raids and "exs." links to confirm the data will be?
            1. Dzmicer
              Dzmicer 1 February 2018 11: 19
              +5
              I am not writing about revolution. I am writing about terrorism.
              The scope of revolutionary terror can be judged even by incomplete available statistics, which clearly shows that in Russia in the first decade of the 1905th century, political killings and revolutionary robberies were really mass events. In one year, starting in October 3611, 57 government officials were killed and wounded in the country (1906). Convened in April 1906, the First State Duma could not stop the terror, which, along with various forms of revolutionary unrest, swept Russia in 1907 and 1907. By the end of 4, the number of government officials killed or maimed by terrorists reached nearly 500 (58). If we add to this 2 killed and 180 wounded individuals, the total number of victims in 2-530 is more than 1905 people (1907). The picture is truly terrifying. Detailed police statistics show that despite the general decline in revolutionary unrest by the end of 9 (the year during which, according to some reports, terrorists accounted for an average of 000 daily casualties (bO), the number of murders remained almost the same as in the midst of revolutionary anarchy in 59. From the beginning of January 1907 to mid-May 18, 1905 terrorist attacks and revolutionary robberies were recorded, as a result of which 1908 government officials and 1910 private individuals were killed, and 19 officials and 957 private individuals were injured. Throughout this period, there were 732 victims (3) throughout the country throughout the country.
              When calculating the total number of victims, it is necessary to take into account not only the cases of political killings committed before 1905, but also the terrorist attacks of 1910 and 1911, culminating in the mortal wound of Prime Minister Stolypin on September 1, 1911, and all subsequent terrorist enterprises, including until the last recorded terrorist conspiracies in 1916.
              It seems quite likely that in the general chaos of the revolutionary situation, a significant number of terrorist attacks of local significance were not recorded anywhere, without falling into either official statistics or the chronicle of the revolutionary movement. We therefore consider it possible to assert that during this time only 17 people became victims of revolutionary terror.

              Geifman A.
              The revolutionary terror in Russia, 1894-1917 / Per. from English E. Dorman. - M .: KRON-PRESS, 1997 .-- 448 p. - (Series "Express").
              1. smaug78
                smaug78 1 February 2018 11: 35
                10
                Great answer:
                “In one year, starting in October 1905, 3611 government officials were killed and wounded in the country,” to the phrase:
                "Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peaceful negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army."
                Especially considering that the Russo-Japanese War was on: January 27 (February 9) 1904 - August 23 (September 5) 1905).
                -Just brilliant. Here is your record, come next time!
                1. Dzmicer
                  Dzmicer 1 February 2018 11: 53
                  +4
                  August 23 (September 5) 1905).

                  July 1904 - Assassination of the Minister of the Interior Pleve
                  Governor-General of Finland Bobrikov killed in Helsinki on June 3, 1904
                  On October 31, 1904, members of the PPS (the Polish Socialist Party) made their debut in mass hostilities. having committed a number of simultaneous terrorist attacks on Warsaw police officers.
                  It also doesn’t bother you that the war ended in August 1905, and accordingly the data I have provided are absolutely relevant.
                  However, looking at your boorish manner of conducting the discussion, I very much doubt its feasibility.
                  1. smaug78
                    smaug78 1 February 2018 12: 03
                    +6

                    "July 1904 - Assassination of the Minister of the Interior Pleve
                    Governor-General of Finland Bobrikov killed in Helsinki on June 3, 1904
                    On October 31, 1904, members of the PPS (the Polish Socialist Party) made their debut in mass hostilities. having committed a series of simultaneous terrorist attacks on Warsaw police officers. "
                    I am waiting for a description of the connection between these events and the actions of the armed forces on the Russian-Japanese front.
                    Yes, and on my list.
                    After that, we can talk about the discussion ...
                    1. Dzmicer
                      Dzmicer 1 February 2018 12: 11
                      +4
                      What does "your" list "have to do with revolutionary terror?
                      Where are the terrorist attacks on this list?
                      There are none of them.
                      What I want to say is that only 10% of the war is military operations. 90% war is logistics. And when you have 10-18 officials killed per day, provocateurs start strikes and strikes at defense plants and railways (which link your troops with a thin thread stretched for 9 thousand kilometers to the supply center), then you have logistics VERY BIG CHALLENGES.
                      With which the Japanese side did not encounter, since for her the theater was right at its side.
                      I also remind you that at the beginning of hostilities the Russian armed forces directly in the Far East (beyond Lake Baikal) amounted to no more than 150 thousand people, moreover, given the fact that most of these troops were directly guarded by the Trans-Siberian border / state border / fortresses about 60 thousand people were available for active operations.
                      In such circumstances, avoiding a military catastrophe is a great SUCCESS.
                      1. smaug78
                        smaug78 1 February 2018 12: 17
                        +6
                        What I want to say is that only 10% of the war is military operations. 90% war is logistics. And when you have 10-18 officials killed per day, provocateurs start strikes and strikes at defense plants and railways (which connect your troops with a thin thread stretching for 9 thousand kilometers to the supply center), then you have VERY BIG PROBLEMS with logistics . - Will there be examples of influence on the conduct of hostilities? Where are the daily killings of “10-18 officials killed per day,” starting February 9, 1904 and down the list.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 1 February 2018 12: 50
                        +3
                        Quote: Dzmicer
                        What I want to say is that only 10% of the war is military operations. On the 90% war is logistics.

                        Such "subtleties" DO NOT reach the Bolsheviks.
                        Like the fact that these lands became Russian (Vladivostok) in total 44 years ago! Where to get from indigenous Russia, it took a year! -walk through the taiga, through dozens of rivers, mountains and swamps. And the settlers walked TWO years.

                        And the greatest merit of the Emperor, the government, the whole people in that was built transsib before the war and only because of this the Far East generally remained Russian., despite the strongest close predator to Japan (with the support of England), which had no problems with logistics by sea, there were no shortcuts,

                        And this is the actual victory in that war of Russia in that war ..
                    2. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 2 February 2018 03: 44
                      +1
                      are you discussing with a liar? to this character as in that proverb about God's dew ...
            2. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 11: 36
              +5
              Sorry, but at the beginning of 1905 the “revolution of revolution” did not gain momentum. The defeated Bolsheviks have already begun active work to undermine the activities of defense plants. And they themselves admit this:
              After January 9, the revolutionary struggle of the workers assumed a more acute, political character. From economic strikes and strikes of solidarity, workers began to move to political strikes, to demonstrations, and in some places to armed resistance to the tsarist troops. Strikes in large cities, where large numbers of workers were concentrated, were especially persistent and organized in St. Petersburg, Moscow, Warsaw, Riga, and Baku. In the forefront of the struggling proletariat were the metalworkers. The advance detachments of workers with their strikes rocked the less conscious layers, raised

              http://communist-party.narod.ru/c03p02.htm

              And this is not to mention the beginning of mass terror. One murder of the Moscow Governor General is worth it.
              1. smaug78
                smaug78 1 February 2018 11: 49
                +5
                In the spring of 2017, you still couldn’t answer normally to answer in what way: “The murder of the Moscow Governor-General” prevented us from winning the battle of Mukden in 2 days. Documents confirming the connection between these 2 events could not be provided. Well and further on the list of 1905.
                And in 1904, who interfered?)))
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 13: 34
                  +3
                  What documents do you need? A report from the War Department, which links the assassination of the Governor General with troop supply problems? You cannot understand without him that the assassination of the Governor-General brought chaos to the work of all the Moscow authorities - the largest railway junction on the way to the Trans-Siberian Railway, and also the fact that this chaos created obstacles to the restoration of troops after Mukden. For you, what is normal to kill a person who is also responsible for the logistics in this transport hub?
                  1. smaug78
                    smaug78 1 February 2018 13: 47
                    +3
                    "the assassination of the Governor-General brought chaos to the work of all the Moscow authorities - the largest railway junction on the way to the Trans-Siberian Railway, and the fact that this chaos created obstacles to the restoration of troops after Mukden" - documents confirming the chaos, the size of the chaos and its impact on the conduct of hostilities will be? By type: "the troops did not get so much of this and that because of the chaos in Moscow, as a result of this and that ...
                    “For you, what is normal to kill a person who is also responsible for the logistics in this transport hub?” - for me, it’s normal for me to confirm my words with documents ...
                    So I'm waiting for a list to which you in April 2017 could not answer.
              2. Looking for
                Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 43
                +2
                Yes, what are you, a scumbag, the facts that distort-the murder of the Moscow Governor-General, as the vast majority of these committed EsRy.
        2. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 12: 29
          +4
          It's like that. If not for the revolution, then Russia would not have made peace until it dropped the Japanese army. Fortunately, by that time the troop grouping had been increased. Those. the war would end somewhere in 1906 if not a victory for Russia, then at least a draw
      4. Alex_59
        Alex_59 1 February 2018 11: 27
        +3
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        So the dubious defeat is rather a draw from the war. We could not expel the enemy from our land, but the enemy also did not achieve our goals.
        Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peaceful negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army.

        With this approach to assessing the results of wars, the Soviet-Finnish war should be considered a brilliant undeniable victory of the Red Army.
        1. Sergey Medvedev
          Sergey Medvedev 1 February 2018 11: 45
          +3
          Quote: Alex_59
          With this approach to assessing the results of wars, the Soviet-Finnish war should be considered a brilliant undeniable victory of the Red Army.

          The Red Army has fulfilled the task assigned to it - to push the border. Pushed back to where they said. So yes, victory.
        2. smaug78
          smaug78 1 February 2018 11: 52
          +2
          So for Teterin:
          1. The death of Nicholas 1
          2. The loss of Russia's status as a great power
          3. The prohibition of having a navy and the demolition of fortifications on the Black Sea for 20 years is all a draw and "nonsense, a matter of life."
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 14: 36
            +2
            Especially for Smaug:
            1. The Anglo-French set as their goal tearing away from Russia Baltic States, Crimea and the Caucasus.
            2. They only achieved a temporary weakening of Russia in the Black Sea.
            Do not find that this result for such stated purposes ... is somewhat minimal.
            1. smaug78
              smaug78 1 February 2018 15: 06
              +3
              1. The Anglo-French set as their goal the tearing away of the Baltic states, Crimea and the Caucasus from Russia. - Only the British, and even then the task is maximum.
              2. They only achieved a temporary weakening of Russia in the Black Sea. 20 years is a significant time span.
              Do not find that this result for such stated purposes ... is somewhat minimal. No, I don’t find it, given the expectations of RI from this conflict and reality.
        3. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 12: 30
          +2
          so the Stalinists consider it to be such.
        4. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 13: 36
          +1
          Soviet-Finnish — yes, victory. The USSR set the task of pushing the border and this task was completed.
        5. your1970
          your1970 1 February 2018 15: 33
          +1
          Quote: Alex_59
          With this approach to assessing the results of wars, the Soviet-Finnish war should be considered a brilliant undeniable victory of the Red Army.
          -an occupation parts of the territory (including Vyborg !!) of Finland - is it a defeat? fool
      5. long in stock.
        long in stock. 2 February 2018 03: 38
        +1
        ag yeah ... pseudo officer ... time again? In 1901 - 1902 49 provinces starved to death: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 - 1,6%. At the beginning of the XX century in Russia they were hungry: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912.
        In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
        In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
        In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
        There were 30 million people on the verge of death. Oh yes .... then wisely replaced the word hunger with wickedness .. and now a very wise thing invented by the wisest tsarist government. Getting help from the starving (“hunger loan”) was also fraught with difficulties. The Hunger Loan was 1 pound of flour per month per adult and 1/2 pound of flour per child. The following categories of rural population were excluded from the recipients of the “hunger loan”: - adults aged 18 to 55 years

        - ownerless peasants (that is, 3,5 million families, usually laborers);
        - widows and orphans, they had to be fed by the rural society "from surplus aid."
        Thus, the most defenseless sections of society were doomed to starvation. Where does the “starving” village come from? Moreover, the received "hunger loan" subsequently had to be repaid. In 1911, over 20 million rubles were recovered from the starving Samara province. and then typhoid came ... I see you are trying to distort even olgovich?
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 February 2018 10: 47
      +6
      Quote: sibiryak10
      Therefore, the White Army lost in the Civil. There was nothing for them to offer the people of Russia - "they are terribly far from the people."

      You Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR (secret) for 1955, take a look! You will see what the "close" people gave the people: until the 1950s, people ate and dressed worse than in 1913. Housing in cities-level 1913 reached — in the 1960s.
      Now remember what they promised in the 17th? Right milk rivers and pussycat. shores, and gave .....
      1. sibiryak10
        sibiryak10 1 February 2018 13: 50
        +6
        I don’t know what kind of (secret) report. I doubt very much its authenticity. But in the 1960s, workers still did not live in the barracks. And before the revolution, it was still considered an excellent option for living. Utilities were a boon to the public. Before the revolution, workers could only shoot the “corner” or live in the barracks, for more simply did not have enough money.
        An 8-hour working day, free training and medical support, virtually free housing, etc. - it's all "WORSE" than in 1913 ?!
        Recent studies of historians on living conditions and the life of workers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries give a completely different, realistic sobering picture of the life of ordinary people.
        The bakers should be introduced
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 07
          +1
          Quote: sibiryak10
          I don’t know what kind of (secret) report. I doubt very much its authenticity.

          All the sandcrusts have already RECOGNIZED it. yes Find on Istmat.
          Quote: sibiryak10
          o in the 1960s, workers still did not live in the barracks. Before the revolution, this was still considered an excellent option for living. Utilities were a boon to the public. Before the revolution, workers could only shoot the “corner” or live in the barracks, for more simply did not have enough money.

          .You are again off topic: by the number of m2 / person in cities, RI was ahead of the USSR until mid 1960
          Quote: sibiryak10
          An 8-hour working day, free training and medical support, virtually free housing, etc. - it's all "WORSE" than in 1913 ?!

          Housing was NOT yours, but public. It was never free and nothing - this money was simply underpaid
          Quote: sibiryak10
          Recent studies of historians on living conditions and the life of workers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries give a completely different, realistic sobering picture of the life of ordinary people.

          You would know that LESS was built before 1938 than in 1917, and this despite the fact that 12 million were in the city within 3-7 years. What do you think, where and how did they live?
          1. Looking for
            Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 51
            0
            Look, sham, no matter how you beat all your teeth, then surely there will be nothing to crunch the sand.
        2. long in stock.
          long in stock. 2 February 2018 03: 40
          +1
          and you read. I’m very surprised at what is written there. the truth is not what this liar is talking about. but don’t be offended very much, he’s a little crazy.
  5. samarin1969
    samarin1969 1 February 2018 07: 46
    +7
    "In post-Soviet Russia, the Bolsheviks were accused of fomenting the Civil War. They say they overthrew the" legitimate "Provisional Government, dispersed the Constituent Assembly, and with their decrees destroyed the bourgeois-democratic republic that had begun to take shape ...."
    The author somehow strangely left the question that he himself had raised .... Is the Bolshevik state under the slogans of bearded prophets an attempt to preserve a millennial state? The Romanov Draft was a difficult era. there were many lazy people, embezzlers, mediocre military leaders. But Russia lived through the labors of thousands of military leaders, engineers, scientists, and artists - patriots of Russia. A substantial part of them served Russia under the Bolsheviks. (Now the “RF” is a pale shadow on the Empire in terms of great people) .... Why did it take to break the Empire “to the foundation” and build a “new world”, the author did not explain to kill millions of people. ...
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 1 February 2018 09: 12
      +6
      [b] [/ b] Apparently, he himself doesn’t know, otherwise he would have said and didn’t put a "shadow on the wattle fence"
    2. Dzmicer
      Dzmicer 1 February 2018 09: 28
      +6
      Why did it take to break the Empire "to the foundation" and build a "new world", the author did not explain to kill millions of people. ...

      They were all without exception enemies of the people (which is not specified), pests and counter-revolutionaries - they wanted to destroy the world's most progressive first state of workers and peasants with the most progressive and humane system of re-educating unconscious counter-revolutionary elements through shock labor in special camps for the benefit of the world revolution - obviously same.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 1 February 2018 13: 42
      +3
      Quote: samarin1969
      The author somehow strange himself left the question that he himself had raised ....

      The author has problems in logic, analysis and sequence, and the most deplorable thing is that Samsonov from article to article belittles Russia and the Russian people by the fact that in his opinion the West (Anglo-Saxons) is to blame for all our sins and problems, that is, it turns out that we are being turned Anglo-Saxons that they have a huge impact on our minds, etc.
  6. Andy
    Andy 1 February 2018 07: 58
    +8
    the blue-blooded crystal bakers, treating the people as cattle, fired a civil war. moreover, these "patriots" got into a rage so much that they did not stop cooperating with the interventionists in the 1920s, but continued with Hitler. in skin, red.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 08: 56
      +7
      Dear, is it your way, the Russian nobles in October 1917 forcibly seized power and then unleashed terror, establishing the Cheka?
      Quote: Andy
      and relating to the people as livestock.

      How aristocrats treated the people can be seen from the WWI, when, regardless of their titles and ranks, they went into bayonet attacks along with mobilized peasants. Covering the soldiers with their bodies, as the prince of imperial blood Oleg Konstantinovich did.
      But how the “people's power” of the Bolsheviks treated people was evident from its deeds. The shooting of a popular demonstration in January 1918, the forcible weaning of land from peasants and their driving into collective farms. The shooting of a working demonstration in Novocherkassk in 1962. The policy of “indigenousization” and the creation of national republics. This list goes on and on. Well, and who in the end treated the people as a dumb source of resources for the state-party machine?
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 1 February 2018 09: 15
        +5
        In this case (Novocherkassk) there is no doubt: "the concern of the party and the faithful Leninist Khruov
      2. your1970
        your1970 1 February 2018 09: 25
        +1

        Art. 187
        A little strange for seduction from Orthodoxy to another Christian faith to receive from a year to two arresting companies. Not?
        It competition between churches or God does not love inside confessional riotings?
        And this is a completely mundane attitude of tsarism towards the people at that time - for it was not a bad thing to do anything contrary to OFFICIAL ideology, the authorities decided everything for them ....
        1. Dzmicer
          Dzmicer 1 February 2018 10: 03
          +6
          Art. 187

          Unlike the courts of the USSRF, in the RI courts the guilt was necessary prove. So I doubt very much that someone was once attracted to this article.
          1. your1970
            your1970 1 February 2018 20: 54
            0
            Quote: Dzmicer
            So I doubt very much that someone was once attracted to this article.
            -I already answered you in another topic-that articles in the Criminal Code appear in only one single case-if such an offense exists. Here is NO in the 1869 code. deprivation of rights for a booze while driving, no .... the steering wheel was not yet ...
            And the transition from religion to religion was - that's why the article arose.

            And to spit by and large - right here so it was necessary to prove guilt in RI , already the smoke stood ... Aha ...
            “On January 24, 1878, a young woman who came to see the city governor, Fedor Trepov, shot a bulldog from him with a revolver. The bullet hit the official in the left side, the wound would not be fatal ... Vera Zasulich shot at the mayor in the presence of several police officials and herself did not deny her guilt.The judicial investigation has begun. Zasulich behaved modestly, spoke with naive sincerity. When asked if she pleaded guilty, she replied: "I admit that I shot General Trepov, and whether the injury or death could have resulted from this was of no concern to me."
            But much more protection relied on poorly done - a hurry! - a consequence. Were not interrogated neither Zasulich’s relatives (and her two sisters were also revolutionaries), nor her acquaintances — even Masha, with whom they played on Trepov’s matches. Outside the investigation, there was also the question of the “bulldog”: who bought Vera an expensive (21 ruble) revolver. Unlike the "ladies'" Browning, this is a serious weapon; it shows the firm intention of the defendant to kill the mayor. The prosecution was going to rest on it ... And it was a verdict to a hackneyed investigation. What is not a sin to remember today: a jury is not a panacea for unjust sentences ...
            Having announced the questionnaire, the foreman only managed to say “Not guilty,” which caused a storm of applause in the hall. Koni announced to Zasulich that she was acquitted, and that the order for her release would be signed immediately. Faith freely left the house of pre-trial detention and fell directly into the arms of an admiring crowd.
            The authorities needed to avenge at least someone for the humiliation suffered. Prince Meshchersky, editor of the monarchist Citizen, wrote: "Zasulich was justified as if in some terrible nightmare, no one could understand how such a terrible mockery of state high servants and such an impudent triumph of sedition could take place in the courtroom of the autocratic empire""-

            Is Zasulich guilty not proven? If not proven, why court decision canceled the next day? If proven, why such a jury decision?
            do not idealize RI ... also that country was still ....
        2. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 11: 24
          +7
          In fact, the defense of state religion is a normal thing for the end of the 19th century. You are silent that the norms you cited were abolished in 1905.
          And you do not say that in the USSR you could have been killed altogether for the dissemination of information contrary to state ideology. The article "counter-revolutionary agitation" was called.
        3. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 12: 31
          +1
          Quote: your1970
          And this is a very ordinary attitude of tsarism to the people at that time


          at what "that" moment, specifically?
      3. Andy
        Andy 1 February 2018 12: 27
        +3
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        But how the “people's power” of the Bolsheviks treated people was evident from its deeds. The shooting of a popular demonstration in January 1918, the forcible weaning of land from peasants and their driving into collective farms. The shooting of a working demonstration in Novocherkassk in 1962.

        Lieutenant Golitsyn, have you heard about the Bloody Resurrection or does this not fit into your fairy tale about the White Tsar? although what to expect from a person who does not recognize historical facts. your movement did not shy away from cooperation with parts of the SS in the Second World War - a war to destroy not only the state but also the people.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 13: 42
          +3
          Quote: Andy
          Bloody resurrection heard

          Heard. How revolutionary militants cowardly shot from the crowd at troops trying to prevent crowding, like in Khodynka. And as commanders of military chains were forced to give orders for return fire, responding to the death of their soldiers.
          1. Andy
            Andy 1 February 2018 14: 24
            +4
            appear with weapons soldiers were sent solely so that there was no stampede. Oh well.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 14: 45
              +2
              And where did you see the soldiers being sent unarmed for law enforcement? And yes, do you think it is normal to shoot from the crowd at the soldiers of your homeland?
        2. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 07
          +2
          I dare to recall that during Bloody Sunday there was a war going on with the external enemy, including Significant forces were sent from the capital to the front. What do you think would happen if there was a thread somewhere in January 1942, well, or January 1940 (during the Winter War), Moscow workers, led by certain figures, went to the Kremlin in an organized crowd to put forward demands to Stalin and would refuse to disperse, trying to break through through military cordons?
      4. Looking for
        Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 59
        0
        No, this frantic part of the Russian nobility did not want to put up with a change in their position in society. Put their own interests above the interests of the people. And ultimately got what they deserved.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 February 2018 13: 10
      +4
      Quote: Andy
      bakers related to the people as livestock

      This "cattle" had the RIGHT to choose, to participate in ANY parties, to participate in MEETINGS, to read ANY newspapers, to have LAND, to have OWN means of production, to sell OWN products at OWN prices.
      But "Neskot", a little later, this had NOTHING. Generally. And hoo hoo? yes
      1. Andy
        Andy 1 February 2018 13: 46
        +1
        oh well, to anyone who can read and write was treated as unreliable. about any parties in more detail please :)
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 13
          +1
          Quote: Andy
          about any parties in more detail please:

          belay ANYONE is from the monarchist to the Bolsheviks-in the State DUMA met. The Bolsheviks had their deputies in 3 Duma, according to the election results.
          Under the Bolsheviks, elections were NOT, for they were mortally afraid of all 70 years. No wonder they were afraid ....
        2. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 14: 31
          +3
          Quote: Andy
          about any parties in more detail please

          Read the list of political parties of the Russian Empire.
          http://historyteacher.ru/istoriya/9i/politicheski
          e-partii-v-rossii-v-nachale-xx-veka /
          And about the suspicions of those who can read and write ... this is enchanting nonsense!
          http://www.charmingrussia.ru/2013/11/blog-post_22
          .html? m = 1
          Read — how many newspapers and magazines were in the Republic of Ingushetia — do you think that everything for the “unreliable” was published?
          1. Andy
            Andy 1 February 2018 14: 46
            +3
            the paper will endure. the fact that the soldiers openly read the newspapers, but gentlemen the officers did not welcome this. Suddenly, conclusions will begin to be drawn. :) it’s a pity the generation of great-grandfathers is gone, otherwise I would have advised them to personally ask what yes how
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 08
              +3
              You are fantasizing.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 February 2018 15: 08
              +2
              Quote: Andy
              the paper will endure. the fact that the soldiers openly read r

              In Russia in 1913 printed 120 million books!-one of the first places in the WORLD!
              And all for the "unreading"! lol
              1. Andy
                Andy 1 February 2018 15: 25
                +3
                I will give you an example of the revolutionary authors of the newcomers. The surf writes in Tsushima several times, as when reading an officer, they read newspapers and Stepanov with proto-arthur (a purely fiction). I repeat the revolutionary (recall that the newcomers are unreliable.) Readings do not deny. but life is even more interesting - similar group reading and you are on a pencil as an agitator. this is life and not your statistics
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 54
                  +1
                  Artworks published in the USSR are never an indicator. They are fantastic a little more than completely
                  1. Andy
                    Andy 1 February 2018 16: 41
                    +1
                    I have given examples of publications where even Soviet censorship has not been deleted. but not at all as a document. as already said, they would ask their ancestors what and how. unfortunately their words are not recorded by statistics or notaries, but they do not become less convincing from this. I repeat, that statistics are statistics, and life is life.
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 1 February 2018 16: 44
                      +1
                      Well, in general, you think so.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 February 2018 16: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Andy
                  . this is life and not your statistics

                  Statistics-OBJECTIVE indicator, Novikov-surf-propagandist.
                  ANY person will choose the first.
                  1. Andy
                    Andy 1 February 2018 17: 41
                    +2
                    statistics reflect the result that they want to get. as in an anecdote about the wife of the collective farm chairman and the milkmaid, one does not give anyone, the other gives everyone, but according to statistics it is white. wassat
                  2. Looking for
                    Looking for 3 February 2018 00: 07
                    0
                    well, no one disputes either. what are you (specifically wrote this word with two errors)
              2. Andy
                Andy 1 February 2018 15: 48
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Andy
                the paper will endure. the fact that the soldiers openly read r

                In Russia in 1913 printed 120 million books!-one of the first places in the WORLD!
                And all for the "unreading"! lol

                and the percentage of literate and do not want to compare with Germany and others? for some reason, the advice went to the majority of the absolutely illiterate population, the rest had a primary. and for them it was a problem. but under the king no one was floating. and all 120 million books were read, of course, by workers and peasants. Well, not a single one got to the bourgeois :)
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 February 2018 16: 32
                  0
                  Quote: Andy
                  literacy percentage and do not want to compare with Germany and others? for some reason, the advice went to the majority of the absolutely illiterate population, the rest had a primary. and for them it was a problem. but under the king no one was floating. and all 120 million books were read, of course, by workers and peasants. Well, not a single one got to the bourgeois:

                  Read MONOGRAPHY Saprykin Ohthe potential of the Russian empire -Many things will open for you.
                  And know one more thing: the number of schools (within the RSFSR) 1917, years in the USSR were restored only to 1927 year
                  1. Andy
                    Andy 1 February 2018 16: 43
                    +4
                    Well, you and brehlooo. the percentage of literate and number of schools in Estonia was an order of magnitude higher in Russia (and until 1918 this was part of the Republic of Ingushetia). and you and the serfdom were later canceled and the number of schools is minuscule, royal care must be understood :)
                    1. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 1 February 2018 17: 09
                      +1
                      Did you yourself understand what you wrote ??? What does Estonia have to do with it? And do you know what "an order of magnitude" means?
                      1. Andy
                        Andy 1 February 2018 17: 16
                        +3
                        are you sane? Estonia is part of the Republic of Ingushetia. and your contribution to the statistics for the specified period. Yes I know. certainly more appropriate at times. but the difference is significant both quantitatively and qualitatively. why so not to me, to the king. he favored the Baltic Germans. this may be the reason. for fun, look about the history of the flag of Estonia - how a student gathering chose it, sanctified it, and then separatism flourished under that flag - everything that would end in Russia with close acquaintance with the gendarmes
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 07: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Andy
                      in Estonia

                      There was NOT Estonia in RI, ignoramus.
                      AND IN RUSSIAN learn your so-called express "thoughts".
                      1. Andy
                        Andy 2 February 2018 11: 05
                        +1
                        go, monarchist, adhere to the bust, feel better. I do not care about Finland Livonia Finland. you brought for an example. and if you take Finland’s schools, the same part of the Republic of Ingushetia, then with your “statistics” you’re at
                        Thanks to the Bolsheviks for pulling out the country. people started to learn. not immediately of course everything worked out
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 February 2018 11: 58
                      +1
                      [
                      Quote: Andy
                      go monarchist, attach to the bust

                      You grandfather "imperishable" forehead obviously reshuffled yes
                      Quote: Andy
                      I do not care about Finland Livonia Finland. you brought for an example. and if we take also schools in Finland, the same part of the Republic of Ingushetia, then from "statistics" you in w.

                      How amateur
                      Quote: Andy
                      in w.
                      ? lol (EU valid?) wink
                      Quote: Andy
                      Thanks to the Bolsheviks for pulling out the country. people started to learn. not immediately of course everything worked out

                      They ruined the fastest growing country in the world - in just 70 years they built the Russian Cross and liquidated the country.
                      1. Andy
                        Andy 2 February 2018 15: 15
                        +1
                        the whole difference is that the Bolsheviks on the ruins of the empire retained statehood, and even then you harmed and now rejoice in the death of the country. you are so "patriots"
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 February 2018 09: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Andy
                      the whole difference is that the Bolsheviks on the ruins of the empire retained statehood, and even then you harmed and now rejoice in the death of the country. you are so "patriots"

                      "Statehood, rotten in just 70 years, with TOTAL indifference of citizens ?!
                      Go on, ask the grandfather, with the next lobbing, is this what he was planning? lol

                      Quote: Andy
                      you then harmed and now rejoice in the death of the country. you are such "patriots"

                      They worked honestly and served the Motherland, and the destruction occurred in the VOR.
      2. your1970
        your1970 2 February 2018 12: 27
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        This "cattle" had the RIGHT to choose, to participate in ANY parties, to participate in MEETINGS, to read ANY newspapers, to have LAND, to have OWN means of production, to sell OWN products at OWN prices.
        "Everyone - everyone had a right? And did they hear about the merchants 2 and 3 guilds? Someone limited them so much? And about the land, is it aware that it was impossible to buy land on the lands of the Cossack troops? And in some- generally buy land was it impossible? about the right to choose - do you even know how the elections were under the king?
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 1 February 2018 13: 44
      +4
      Quote: Andy
      fueled civil war blue-blooded baker

      Before speaking this nonsense, you would first clarify the composition of the white armies and other paramilitary groups that fought against the Reds.
      1. Andy
        Andy 1 February 2018 14: 02
        +2
        Actually, you yourself specify for whom you are. then you (including the great princes) renounce the tsar, divide into monarchists and the bourgeois, or you begin to make friends against the Bolsheviks. that's how Mr. in the hole. it’s impossible to trace your political course ... although no, you’ve come to work with the SS
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 1 February 2018 17: 13
          +1
          Quote: Andy
          although no, you’ve come to cooperation with the SS

          Is there an SS now? laughing
          1. Andy
            Andy 1 February 2018 17: 37
            +4
            no, yours were outweighed after the victory :)
          2. Andy
            Andy 1 February 2018 18: 20
            +4
            Quote: RUSS
            Quote: Andy
            although no, you’ve come to cooperation with the SS

            Is there an SS now? laughing

            By the decision of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR, Shkuro, together with P.N. Krasnov, S.N. Krasnov, Sultan-Girey Klych, Helmut von Pannwitz and Timofei Domanov, on the charge of "waging an armed struggle against the Soviet one through the White Guard detachments they formed Union and carried out active espionage and sabotage and terrorist activities against the USSR ”[31], was sentenced to death by hanging. He was executed in Moscow on January 16, 1947 [32] [33] [34] [35] [36].

            In 1997, the public organization "For Faith and Fatherland!" filed a request for the rehabilitation of generals who collaborated with Germany during World War II and executed in the USSR. On December 25, 1997, the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation recognized A. G. Shkuro and other generals P. N. Krasnov, S. N. Krasnov, Sultan-Girey Klych, T. N. Domanov as justifiably convicted and not subject to rehabilitation

            I'm taking my leave for the sim.
  7. Monarchist
    Monarchist 1 February 2018 08: 08
    +8
    Dear author, you are right that some naive people see the beginning of the Civil War in the overthrow of the Provisional Government, it is no more legal than SNK. The monarchy was legitimate for that historical period.
    You forgot that after Peter the Great there was still Catherine the Great, and she largely "rehabilitated" the Old Believers.
    The author, if you follow your logic that the Old Believers are so good Bolsheviks are anti-Christ: do you remember in the Second World War there were various colorists? In Belarus, there was the so-called "Zotov Republic", the Old Believers in their district destroyed the Soviet patriots and helped the Nazis. And then the "Old Believers" canonized: the Kaminsky brigadeführer SS, and this beast was the one who was for his Gestapo Tavo looting .... Even Hitler decided that it must be eliminated and the Old Believers canonized such a "good thing"!
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 1 February 2018 08: 11
    +1
    Russian Orthodoxy was split and emasculated, lost its fiery essence. The best part of the Russian people - the Old Believers, with their ethics of conscience and spiritual purity, industriousness, the rejection of dope - tobacco and alcohol, were excluded from the general life
    ,
    ... Come on ... Under Basil III, the Russian Orthodox Church became a money-making church ... in the literal and figurative sense .. "Not money-givers" were repressed ...
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 1 February 2018 09: 07
      +4
      Quote: parusnik
      "Not the money-grubbers" were repressed ...

      Here you are greatly exaggerating about the repressions, imprisoned in the monastery of Vassian Kosy and Maxim the Greek, all repression ended there.
      Quote: parusnik
      Under Vasily III, the Russian Orthodox Church became a money-making church

      It is better to remain silent here.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 1 February 2018 09: 25
        +3
        Here you are greatly exaggerating
        ,
        ... Of course, my ancestors, the followers of "non-possessors", fled from the persecution to the Urals ..
  9. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 08: 24
    +7
    Article minus. Listing the real facts, the author simultaneously engages in active myth-making and stubbornly fights with reality, ignoring it.
    First, to morally suppress the Russian people, to make them forever “guilty” of all possible and impossible sins.

    Here I must say that the so-called "genetic liberals" are trying to lay blame on the Russian people — the descendants of the Soviet nomenclature, who hold pseudo-liberal views. These gentlemen, without conscience and honor, are trying to blame the people who suffered more from the hands of their ancestors, “forgetting” that the word “Russian” is not equivalent to the word “communist”.
    exterminated the “best part” of the Russian people and only “scoop-slaves” remained.

    Some “scoop-slaves” did not remain in the country, but the people's will and ability to act independently were thoroughly undermined. The proof of this is December 1991, when the entire population of the USSR, including the ranks of the KGB, the CPSU and the army, sat still, staring blankly at the split in the country.
    this is a millennia-old confrontation between Russia and the West.
    But this is pure fantasy water. Western countries fought with each other and intrigued against each other more often and tougher than with Russia. The author, apparently, is impressed by the psychology of the “besieged fortress,” but one cannot deny reality for the sake of complacency.
    .
    The best part of the Russian people is the Old Believers, with their ethics of conscience and spiritual purity,
    . I laugh in a voice. This, apparently, from a special spiritual purity, the Old Believers financed the terrorists in the beginning of the 20th century and plotted against the Emperor, promoting his protege Guchkov.
    .
    by the end of the existence of the empire, a significant part of the aristocracy and the nobility degenerated, forgot how to fight, wanted to live in luxury and bliss (preferably in the capital or abroad).

    The author, apparently completely ignores the mass heroism of the Russian noble officers who marched at the head of infantry chains in the WWI, giving their lives for their homeland. And he forgets that Russian emigrants abroad worked as taxi drivers and waiters, because all their earned money was invested in Russia and for the good of Russia.
    So the article is yet another myth-making attempt to argue with reality.
  10. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 1 February 2018 09: 22
    +5
    The Reds acted cruelly and bloody, not afraid of mass killings. Crowds of peasants were driven into their army, defensive detachments of internationalist revolutionaries (Chinese, Hungarians, Latvians, etc.) were placed in the rear, and the small white troops were bombarded with “cannon fodder”.

    And so it was.
    First, to morally suppress the Russian people, to make them forever “guilty” of all possible and impossible sins.

    Lying. No one suffered from Bolshevism more than the Russian people. Blaming the Russians for Bolshevism is tantamount to accusing the Jews of the Holocaust.
    It turns out that the USSR was not the most advanced country on the planet, having made a leap forward for hundreds of years in creating a just order in the interests of the people,

    What kind of people?)
    Secondly, to use this myth in the information war against Russia, to make excuses, to apologize.

    The USSR is not Russia - the Bolsheviks broke the succession from both the Republic of Ingushetia and the Republic of Poland, abolished the entire system of state authorities and the extensive, well-thought-out legislation that had been created by Russia's best minds for hundreds of years. So there’s nothing for the Russians to apologize for.
    Well, the rest, "the political instructor is always lying"
    1. your1970
      your1970 2 February 2018 12: 40
      +1
      Quote: Dzmicer
      The Reds acted cruelly and bloody, not afraid of mass killings. Crowds of peasants were driven into their army, defensive detachments of internationalist revolutionaries (Chinese, Hungarians, Latvians, etc.) were placed in the rear, and the small white troops were bombarded with “cannon fodder”.
      And so it was.
      "Why didn’t the valiant white troops agree among themselves? Didn’t they even create an alliance or something? Didn’t they offer something intelligible to the people, a program that is at least the most miserable? Something they first started to share according to their interests?"
      Why Komuch didn’t go to Moscow, where did the direct train lead and the path was practically open (there were no reds there at that time at all!) - and went to Kazan? Not for the RI gold coin they accidentally broke into the basements of the Kazan Bank, didn't ??
      And about how, in succession, strictly in turn, they attacked the Reds — lectures should be read on the topic: “IT IS NOT FIGHT TO WAR!” ...
      It seems like military generals, but it turned out - full hats and mediocrity ....

      And remember one thing: if people really do not like something very much - no detachments will stop. They will cut the detachments and leave - there was such a thing in the Civil, and they left the whites ..
      In WWI, the death penalty for desertion through the military field courts reached the point of death - and hundreds fled from the army ..
  11. Dashing
    Dashing 1 February 2018 09: 42
    +1
    Great article. The main real reasons for the collapse of tsarist Russia are very accurately named. It was a break with heaven, a split of society into noblemen — loafers, and a working common people and one people into Russian Europeans and Russians proper, so easily ending old Russia. And, of course, skillful Anglo-Saxon work. Among other things ...
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 1 February 2018 13: 48
      +5
      Quote: DARK
      It is a break with heaven, a split of society into nobles - loafers

      "Vladimir Lenin was also a nobleman. His father Ilya Nikolaevich Ulyanov served this very nobility. He worked in the field of enlightenment, received the rank of real state adviser, which corresponded to the military rank of major general, and at the same time - hereditary nobility, which extended to his children.

      By the way, the Lenin government of all Soviet governments is the most "aristocratic" - it was attended by most noblemen. The descendant of the old family was Vladimir Bonch-Bruevich, the administrators of the Council of People's Commissars, the “white bones" were the people's commissar of education Anatoly Lunacharsky, the comrade-in-arms of Lenin, Alexander Kollontai. From the Polish gentry came the head of the Cheka “Iron Felix” Dzerzhinsky and his successor Vyacheslav Menzhinsky. "
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 1 February 2018 14: 58
        +2
        Quote: RUSS
        By the way, the Lenin government of all Soviet governments is the most "aristocratic"

        By the way, Lenin had an impeccable artistic taste, he loved Turgenev's books very much, and according to the memoirs of M.I. Ulyanova, one of Lenin's favorite opera motifs, which he often whistled, was an aria from The Queen of Spades ...I love you, I love immensely ....
        Mayakovsky and Demyan Poor were offered exclusively to the proletariat.
      2. Dashing
        Dashing 1 February 2018 16: 13
        +1
        Russ, I used this phrase in the context of the article, referring to the decree "On the nobility of liberty." In it, nobles were allowed not to serve, which led to indignation in the popular strata. The peasants did not understand why now to feed this non-serving public. Previously, a nobleman was obliged to serve until old age, to die for his homeland on the battlefields, etc. Many nobles returned to their estates wounded, crippled. This alignment was clear to ordinary people, they fed the country's defenders and suffered. The decree destroyed life "in the old days" and became a time bomb, notably jerked among others in the 17th year. And the fact that the Bolshevik government, as well as the commanding staff of the Red Army in the civilian majority consisted of their nobility and personnel officers, is also known, as well as the fact that the top white people consisted largely of immigrants from the bottom. The paradox of history: prominent nobles fought for popular power, and common people fought for old Russia.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 1 February 2018 16: 47
          +3
          Quote: DARK
          The paradox of history: prominent nobles fought for popular power, common people fought for old Russia


          As history has shown, there is no paradox. Ordinary people under the "people's power" lived worse than under the "old Russia", who knew what would pour out, fought for the whites
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 February 2018 14: 17
      +4
      Quote: DARK
      It is a break with heaven, a split of society into nobles - loafers and a working commoner

      The first composition of the so-called SNK consisted of 40% of the nobles. There were ... workers alone (Shlyapnikov, executed in 1937). The remaining members of SNK NEVER ANYONE worked before. Generally.
  12. smaug78
    smaug78 1 February 2018 10: 13
    +5
    In continuation, we are definitely waiting for the Zhydarians and the Judeo-Anglo-Saxons, who set the Scytharians against the Slavs ...
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 1 February 2018 13: 48
      +4
      Quote: smaug78
      In continuation, we are definitely waiting for the Zhydarians and the Judeo-Anglo-Saxons, who set the Scytharians against the Slavs ...

      Bravo laughing !!
      I think Samsonov, after his next pseudo-historical article-delirium, reads the comments and burns over us "-that I wrote another crap, and people argue with foam at the mouth" laughing
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 1 February 2018 14: 48
        +4
        Dear RUSS, the trouble is not so much in this as in the fact that every time there are many people who are ready to defend these nonsense ...
  13. Ural resident
    Ural resident 1 February 2018 10: 36
    +3
    The article seems to say at first about the contradictions in society and about how all parties are to blame. We can agree with this. It is said that it is wrong to blame only on the Bolsheviks - with great difficulty, but you can also agree - let everyone share responsibility. But then, for some reason, the conclusion from the article is brewing by itself - the Romanovs are to blame.
    Particularly pleased at the end: "Russia was to conquer Constantinople, go to Persia and India to develop Russian America, gain a foothold in Korea and China, etc... "- and since the Romanovs didn’t do all this, in the end a revolution happened.
    Conclusion - it’s not the Bolsheviks who are to blame for the civil war, but the whites? ...
  14. Monarchist
    Monarchist 1 February 2018 10: 43
    +5
    “Russia has lost its“ connection with the sky. ”This means the Old Believers had the prerogative to communicate with the sky, and the Nikonians are so dummy. So, at least 58% of our parents and grandfathers respected the dummy, and ignored the Old Believers who have a connection with the sky. and in the Second World War the Moscow patriarchate supported the people in the war against the invaders. Incidentally, 2/3 of the hierarchs of the ROCA did not cooperate with the fascists either. The patriarchate organized fundraising for the tank column.
    If you look at the “Nikonians” there are a lot of reasons for not loving the Bolsheviks: I don’t know of cases where the Bolsheviks “insulted” the rabbis, and the priests weren’t too oppressed, they were afraid of the Vatican, or rather, the Freemasons were tolerant of them .. So it turns out that the Nikonians were mostly with the people. But the Old Believers in Belarus until 1947 fought against the Soviet government, and if this is a people's power, then they are against the people?
  15. slavaseven
    slavaseven 1 February 2018 10: 46
    +1
    I would like to recommend to everyone who is interested in the issue raised by the author to read V.A. Soloukhin - "Salt Lake", "By Daylight", "Golden German Key of the Bolsheviks."
  16. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 1 February 2018 12: 21
    +3
    smaug78,
    Examples of influence on the conduct of hostilities will be? Where are the daily killings of “10-18 officials killed per day,” starting February 9, 1904 and down the list.

    I have already given you a quote with statistics from the print edition.
    More "sprinkle beads before the pig" is not intended.
    Not to see the logical connection between terrorism, strikes, strikes, logistics and military successes - well, this is a medical diagnosis.
    1. smaug78
      smaug78 1 February 2018 13: 50
      +4
      But not to see the logical connection between terrorism, strikes, strikes, logistics and military success - well, this is a medical diagnosis. " .
      “In one year, starting in October 1905, 3611 government officials were killed and wounded in the country,” to the phrase:
      "Well, in Russo-Japanese Russia, it was forced into peaceful negotiations not by force of arms, but by a terrorist war in the rear of a warring army."
      Especially considering that the Russo-Japanese War was on: January 27 (February 9) 1904 - August 23 (September 5) 1905).
      -Just brilliant. Here is your record, come next time!
      Bravo, bravo !!!
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 12
        +5
        There would be no terror, it would not go
        Quote: smaug78
        January 27 (February 9) 1904 - August 23 (September 5) 1905).
        and until, say, August 23, 1906, although perhaps less. Really does not reach?
      2. Gopnik
        Gopnik 1 February 2018 15: 16
        +5
        “In May 1905, a meeting of the military council was held, where the Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich reported that, in his opinion, for the final victory it is necessary: ​​a billion rubles of expenses, about 200 thousand losses and a year of hostilities. At the same time, the expenses associated with the hostilities have already been estimated at 2,082 billion rubles.After reflection, Nicholas II decided to enter into negotiations with the mediation of US President Roosevelt to conclude peace (which Japan had already proposed twice) from a position of strength, since Russia, unlike Japan, could wage war for a long time "
        There would be no terror in the rear, the war would have continued, until victory.
  17. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 1 February 2018 15: 11
    +5
    "In post-Soviet Russia, the Bolsheviks were accused of inciting civil war" ///

    1914 year. Vladimir Ilyich writes:
    “Let us turn the imperialist war into a civil war”]
    (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch., 5th ed., T. 26, C.32),

    Lenin did not throw words into the wind. No sooner said than done. Turned ...
  18. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 1 February 2018 17: 25
    0
    How easy it is in history that cause-and-effect relationships are attracted to the ears. It’s just amazing to be given. Such as Samsonov rewrite history.
  19. Gopnik
    Gopnik 1 February 2018 18: 28
    0
    Andy,
    You include your head, how could Estonia affect statistics, despite the fact that there lived a little more than 0,3% of the population of the empire (without Finland)?
  20. VladGashek
    VladGashek 1 February 2018 20: 24
    0
    It is impossible to fully agree with the author in the analysis of the reasons for the next "turmoil in Russia." To understand the reasons, one needs to delve into Russian history for 100 years. The end of the ХY111 century was the rampant freemasonry in the Russian elite, Prince Shcherbatskaya, then a Decembrist and an ideological mastermind Chaadaev, Westerners and their followers. That is why the causes of the civil war are ready — the tragic split of the liberal-autocratic elite and the patriarchal-communist strata. The Bolsheviks themselves, in their mass, were members of the community, and not conscious social democrats or communists. Remember the words of Sholokhov: "You are for the Bolsheviks or for the Communists." So the civil war ripened in the heart of Russian society, the events of the WWII and February only provoked it. Great was a split in Russia.
  21. BAI
    BAI 1 February 2018 21: 03
    0
    In listing 1 to 4, everything is fine. But then ...
  22. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 22: 15
    +2
    The civil war was unleashed by the Russian nobility and the bourgeoisie with the direct support of foreign capital.

    What did the Lenin words mean: turn the imperialist war into a civil war? That meant drive away the exploiting classes in order to destroy the exploitation of man by man, and if the ousted classes put up with this, then there would be no civil war, as such, because they did not have the strength to resist the Soviet regime, but foreign military intervention intervened here, with the support of which the ousted classes unleashed a civil war.
    Soviet power was held by all the people of Russia, no one denies its triumphal march around the country. The main goal of the Soviet government was to free the workers from exploitation, and this could only be done depriving the nobility and the bourgeoisie of not only power but also private property, which, in fact, was done by the Decrees of the Soviet Government - they nationalized the land, banks, factories, factories, ships.
    But there can be no revolution without counter-revolution, because the exploiting classes will never give up their interests, therefore the goal of the white movement was to restore the power of the bourgeoisie, at any cost to return the selected property, to return their income, their privileges, among which the main privilege was the right to parasitize on the Russian people. But the peoples of Russia already wanted this, and therefore the white army melted ...
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 2 February 2018 07: 56
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Green
      What did Lenin's words mean: turn the imperialist war into a civil war? This meant that it was necessary to drive away the exploiting classes in order to destroy the exploitation of man by man,

      This means that it is easier for a belligerent MOTHERLAND to strike in the back, because. internal enemies — more — and their external friends help.
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Soviet power was held by all the people of Russia,
      fool lol
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 00: 20
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        Quote: Alexander Green
        What did Lenin's words mean: turn the imperialist war into a civil war? This meant that it was necessary to drive away the exploiting classes in order to destroy the exploitation of man by man,

        This means that it is easier for a belligerent MOTHERLAND to strike in the back, because. internal enemies — more — and their external friends help.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Soviet power was held by all the people of Russia,
        fool lol

        Dear, did you see a doctor? Your “mental” illness is progressing: you confuse the Motherland with the exploiting classes, and at the end of his comment completely speechless!
  23. zupza
    zupza 1 February 2018 22: 24
    0
    the author wants to contrast Russia and the West in general categories, Orthodoxy and other Christianity - this is a custom base scribble with claims to objectivity. It would be much more useful to learn from these Western or Eastern enemies how to create a self-sufficient society and how to interest these enemies with the products of their brains, and not with the dirt that flows from underground. And leave the civil war to historians!
  24. Mamka pula
    Mamka pula 1 February 2018 22: 28
    16
    Now it’s important not who ignited the Civil War
    And how to finish it, in 100 years at least
  25. long in stock.
    long in stock. 2 February 2018 04: 14
    +2
    the bakers again dodge and lie ... the truth, as always, is inept. well, what to take from the wretched. average life expectancy of 1896-1897g of a man is 29.43g. women-31.69g 1926-1927 men-40.23g women 45.61g
    Source Rosstat.
    and only when the crusty bastard raised his head in 1995 did the decline begin ...
  26. Looking for
    Looking for 2 February 2018 23: 27
    +1
    Quote: Dzmicer
    You have little idea of ​​the scope of the terrorist war that was being waged against Russia at that time.

    but where are we to the direct witness of the events of that time.