Military Review

100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy

245
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy

100 years ago, 28 and 29 in January 1918, the Red Army and the Red Fleet were created to protect Soviet Russia from external and internal enemies.


23 is considered to be 1918 in February as the birthday of the Red Army. Then the recording of volunteers began and German troops moving into the depths of Russia stopped near Pskov and Narva. However, the decrees defining the principle of formation and structure of the new Armed Forces were adopted in January. Having taken power in the country into their own hands, the Bolsheviks faced one of the fundamental problems - the country was defenseless in the face of external and internal enemies.

The destruction of the Armed Forces began in the last years of the Russian empire - a drop in morale, moral and psychological fatigue from the war, hatred in the authorities, which dragged millions of ordinary people into a bloody massacre meaningless for them. This led to a drop in discipline, massive desertion, surrender, the appearance of detachments, a plot among the part of the generals who supported the overthrow of the king, etc. The Provisional Government, the February revolutionaries finished off the imperial army by “democratization” and “liberalization”. Russia no longer had an army as a whole, unified structure. And this is in the context of the Troubles and external aggression, intervention. Russia needed an army to defend the country, the people, defend socialism and the Soviet project.

In December 1917, V.I. Lenin set the task: to create a new army in a month and a half. The Military Collegium was formed, money was allocated for the concept of organization and management of the workers 'and peasants' armed forces. The groundwork was approved at the III All-Russian Congress of Soviets in January 1918. Then the decree was signed. Initially, the Red Army, following the example of the White Guard formations, was voluntary, but this principle quickly showed its inconsistency. And soon they turned to the appeal - the general mobilization of men of certain ages.

Army

After coming to power in October 1917, the Bolsheviks initially saw the future army as being created on a voluntary basis, without mobilization, with election of commanders, etc. The Bolsheviks relied on the thesis of K. Marx about replacing the regular army with universal armament of the working people. Thus, the fundamental work “State and Revolution” written by Lenin in 1917, defended, inter alia, the principle of replacing the regular army with the “universal armament of the people”.

On December 16, 1917, decrees of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars "On the elective beginning and organization of power in the army" and "On the equation in the rights of all military personnel" were issued. To protect the gains of the revolution, detachments of the Red Guard began to form, headed by the military revolutionary committee. Also, the Bolsheviks were supported by detachments of "revolutionary" soldiers and sailors from the old army and fleet. On November 26, 1917, instead of the old Ministry of War, the Committee on Military and Naval Affairs was established under the leadership of V. A. Antonov-Ovseenko, N. V. Krylenko and P. E. Dybenko. Then this Committee was transformed into the Council of People's Commissars for Military and Naval Affairs. Since December 1917, it was renamed and became known as the College of People's Commissars for Military and Naval Affairs (People's Commissariat of War), the head of the board was N. I. Podvoisky. The People's Commissariat of War was the leading military organ of Soviet power; in the early stages of its activities, the collegium relied on the old military ministry and on the old army.

At a meeting of the military organization under the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b) 26 on December 1917, it was decided to install V.I. Lenin to create a month and a half new army in 300 thousand people, was created All-Russian Board on the organization and management of the Red Army. Lenin set before this college the task of developing, as soon as possible, the principles of organizing and building a new army. The fundamental fundamentals of army construction, developed by the college, were approved by the 3rd All-Russian Congress of Soviets, which met from 10 to 18 in January of 1918. To defend the gains of the revolution, it was decided to create an army of the Soviet state and call it the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army.

As a result, on January 15, 28 (1918) issued a decree on the establishment of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army, and January (November 29) created the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Fleet on a voluntary basis. The definition of “worker-peasant” emphasized its class character — the army of the dictatorship of the working people and the fact that it should be completed mainly from the working people of town and country. The "Red Army" talked about the fact that it is a revolutionary army. For the formation of volunteer detachments of the Red Army 11 million rubles were allocated. In mid-January, 10 million rubles were allocated for the construction of the Red Army 1918. As the leadership of the Red Army was created, all departments of the old military ministry were reorganized, reduced or abolished.

18 February 1918, the Austro-German troops, more than 50 divisions, violating the truce, launched an offensive in the entire belt from the Baltic to the Black Sea. 12 February The 1918 in Transcaucasia began the offensive of the Turkish army. The remnants of the completely demoralized and destroyed old army could not resist the enemy and left their positions without a fight. From the old Russian army, the only military units to preserve military discipline were the regiments of Latvian riflemen who had gone over to the side of Soviet power. In connection with the onset of the enemy troops, part of the generals of the tsarist army proposed the formation of detachments from the old army. But the Bolsheviks, fearing the actions of these detachments against the Soviet power, refused such formations. However, to attract officers of the old imperial army, some generals were attracted. A group of generals, led by M. D. Bonch-Bruyevich as part of 12, 20 February 1918 arrived in Petrograd from General Headquarters, formed the basis of the Supreme Military Council and began to hire officers to serve the Bolsheviks. From March to August, Bonch-Bruevich will hold the post of military leader of the Supreme Military Council of the Republic, and in 1919 - the Chief of the Field Staff of the RVSR.

As a result, in the course of the Civil War there will be many generals and cadre officers of the tsarist army among the highest command personnel of the Red Army. During the Civil War, 75 was served in the Red Army by thousands of former officers, while in the White Army about 35 were served by thousand men. from the 150-thousandth corps of officers of the Russian Empire. About 40, thousands of former officers and generals did not take part in the Civil War, or fought for national formations.

By mid-February, the First Corps of the Red Army was formed in Petrograd. The basis of the corps was a special purpose detachment consisting of Petrograd workers and soldiers as part of the 1918 mouth of 3 people. During the first two weeks of formation, the number of corps was brought to 200 thousand people. A part of the corps, about 15 thousand people, was prepared and sent to the front near Pskov, Narva, Vitebsk and Orsha. By early March 10, the body had a total 1918 infantry battalions, machine gun regiment, 10 cavalry regiments, an artillery brigade, a heavy artillery battalion, Armored Division 2, 2 Squadron, aeronautic detachment, engineering, automobile, motorcycle parts and searchlight command. In May, the 3 Corps was disbanded; its personnel is aimed at completing the 1918, 1, 2 and 3 rifle divisions, which were formed in the Petrograd military district.

By the end of February, 20 thousand volunteers signed up in Moscow. The first test of the Red Army took place near Narva and Pskov, it entered into battle with the German troops and gave them a rebuff. Thus, 23 February was the birthday of the young Red Army.

During the formation of the army there were no approved states. Military units were formed from volunteer units based on the capabilities and needs of their area. Troops consisted of several dozen people from 10 to 10 thousand or more people. Formed battalions, companies and regiments were of different types. The number of companies consisted of 60 to 1600 people. The tactics of the troops were determined by the legacy of the tactics of the Russian army, the political, geographical and economic conditions of the combat area, and also reflected the individual traits of their commanders, such as Frunze, Shchors, Budyonny, Chapaev, Kotovsky and others.

The course of hostilities showed the viciousness and weakness of the volunteer principle, the "democratic" principles in the army. This organization excluded the possibility of centralized command and control of troops. As a result, a gradual transition began from a voluntary principle to the construction of a regular army on the basis of universal military service. 3 March 1918 was created by the Supreme Military Council (Air Force). The chairman of the Supreme Military Council was the People’s Commissar for Military Affairs, Lev Trotsky. The Council coordinated the activities of the military and naval departments, set them tasks for the defense of the state and the organization of the armed forces. Three departments were created within its structure - operational, organizational and military communications. Trotsky created the institute of military commissars (from 1919, the republic’s political administration, the PUR). 25 March 1918 of the Year SNK approved the creation of new military districts. At a meeting in the Air Force in March 1918, a draft organization of the Soviet rifle division was discussed, which was adopted by the main combat unit of the Red Army. The division consisted of 2-3 brigades, each brigade of the 2-3 regiments. The main economic unit was the regiment of the 3 battalions, 3 companies in each.

Also decided the question of the transition to universal conscription. 26 July 1918. Trotsky submitted to SNK a proposal for universal military service of the working people and for recruiting conscripts from the bourgeois classes to the rear militia. Earlier, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee announced the call of workers and peasants not exploiting the labor of others in the 51 district of the Volga, Urals and West Siberian military districts, as well as workers in Petrograd and Moscow. During the following months, conscription to the Red Army was extended to commanders. By July 29 decree, the entire military-obliged population of the country, ranging in age from 18 to 40, was registered, and conscription was established. These decrees determined a significant increase in the armed forces of the Soviet Republic.

2 September 1918 by decree of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee The Supreme Military Council was abolished, with the transfer of functions to the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic (RVSR, RVS, Revolutionary Military Council). RVS led by Trotsky. The Revolutionary Military Council combined administrative and operational functions for the management of the Armed Forces. 1 November 1918 of the year was formed the executive operational body of the RVSR - Field Headquarters. The members of the PBC were outlined by the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) And approved by the Council of People's Commissars. The number of members of the RVSR was non-permanent and comprised, apart from the chairman, his deputies and the Commander-in-Chief, from 2 to 13 people. In addition, since the summer of 1918, Revolutionary Military Councils have been formed by the Red Army and Navy (fronts, armies, fleets, flotillas and some groups of forces). Revolutionary Military Council decided to create a cavalry in the Red Army.


L. D. Trotsky in the Red Army. Sviyazhsk, August 1918

In view of the growing tensions of the war, the question arose of pooling the efforts of the entire country and the head of all bodies as the leading elite became the Council of Workers 'and Peasants' Defense (Council of Defense, SRCW) formed by the decree of the Central Executive Committee 30 of November 1918. Lenin was appointed chairman of the Defense Council. The Defense Council was the main emergency military economic and planning center of the Republic during the war. The Council was controlled by the activities of the Revolutionary Military Council and other military bodies. As a result, the Defense Council had full power in the mobilization of all the forces and means of the country for defense, united the work of all agencies that worked for the country's defense in the military-industrial, transport and food area and became the completion of the organization management system of the armed forces of Soviet Russia.

Upon admission to the army, the fighters took the oath approved by 22 on April at the meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee. September 16 The first Soviet Order, the Red Banner of the RSFSR, was established on 1918. A lot of work has been done: on the basis of the three-year experience of world war, new field manuals for all branches of the armed forces and their combat interaction were written; a new mobilization scheme has been formed - a system of military commissariats. The Red Army was commanded by dozens of the best generals who had gone through two wars, and 100 thousand military officers, including former commanders of the imperial army.

Thus, by the end of 1918, the organizational structure of the Red Army and its administrative apparatus were created. The Red Army strengthened all crucial sections of the fronts by the Communists, in October 1918 in the army were 35 thousand communists, in 1919 - about 120 thousand, and in August 1920 year 300 thousand, half of all members of the RCP (b) of that time. In June 1919, all the republics that existed at that time — Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia — entered into a military alliance. It was created a unified military command, joint management of finance, industry and transport. By order of the Revolutionary Military Council of Russia on 16, January 1919, insignia was introduced only for combatant commanders - colored buttonholes, on collars, by type of service, and commander stripes on the left sleeve, above the cuff.

By the end of 1920, the Red Army numbered 5 million, but due to the lack of weapons, uniforms and equipment, the army’s combat personnel did not exceed 700 thousand, 22 army was formed, 174 divisions (of which 35 were cavalry), 61 squadron (300) 400 aircraft), artillery and armor units (units). During the war years, 6 military academies and more than 150 courses prepared 60 thousand workers and peasants of all specialties from workers and peasants.

As a result, a new powerful army was formed in Soviet Russia that won the Civil War, over the “armies” of the nationalist separatists, Basmachs and ordinary thugs. The leading powers of the West and the East were forced to withdraw their occupation forces from Russia, for the time being refusing to direct invasion.


V. Lenin at the parade of the Universal Education units in Moscow, May 1919

Fleet

January 29 (February 11 New Style) 1918 held a meeting of the Council of People's Commissars (SNK) of the RSFSR chaired by V.I. Lenin, at which on the report of the People’s Commissar for Maritime Affairs P.E. Dybenko, the decree on the creation of Peasant Red Fleet (RKKF). The decree said: “The Russian fleet, like the army, is brought by the crimes of the tsarist and bourgeois regimes and a difficult war into a state of great disruption. The transition to the arming of the people, which is demanded by the program of the socialist parties, is extremely complicated by this circumstance. In order to preserve national wealth and oppose organized forces — the remnants of the mercenary army of capitalists and the bourgeoisie, in order to maintain, if necessary, the ideas of the world proletariat have to resort, as a transitional measure, to organizing the fleet on the basis of recommending candidates by party, trade union and other mass organizations. In view of this, the Council of People's Commissars resolves: The fleet, which exists on the basis of the universal military service of the tsarist laws, is declared dissolved and the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Fleet is organized. ”

The next day, an order signed by P. E. Dybenko and members of the Marine Board of S. E. Saks and F. F. Raskolnikov, in which this decree was announced, was sent to the fleets and flotilla. In the same order it was reported that the new fleet should be completed on the principles of voluntariness. On January 31, the order for the fleet and the naval department declared the partial demobilization of the fleet, but already on February 15, in connection with the threat of the German offensive, the Centrobalt appealed to the sailors with an appeal, in which he wrote: “The Central Committee of the Baltic Fleet urges you, fellow sailors, to stay in their places to whom freedom and homeland are dear, until the imminently dangerous danger from the enemies of freedom waits. ” Somewhat later, 22 February 1918 was established by the decision of the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR, the People’s Commissariat for Maritime Affairs was established, and the Supreme Maritime Board was renamed the Board of the People’s Commissariat for Maritime Affairs. This resolution laid the foundations of the Soviet naval apparatus.

Interestingly, from December 1917 to February 1918, the scale of naval titles did not exist. Most often, naval soldiers were called by their positions and (or) by their former positions with the addition and addition of the abbreviation “b”, which meant “former”. For example, b. captain of the 2 rank. In the 29 Decree of January 1918, the navy personnel was named “Red Navy Sailors” (it was altered to “Krasnoenmore”).

It is worth noting that in the outbreak of the Civil War, the ships did not play a major role. A significant part of the sailors and noncoms of the Baltic Fleet went to fight on land for the Red Army. A part of the officers died in the ensuing distemper, a part - went over to the side of the whites, a part - ran or stayed on the ships, trying to save them for Russia. In the Black Sea Fleet, the picture was similar. But part of the ships fought on the side of the White Army, part went over to the Reds.

After the end of the Time of Troubles of Soviet Russia, only the miserable remnants of the once powerful fleet were inherited on the Black Sea. The naval forces in the North and the Far East also practically ceased to exist. The Baltic Fleet was partially rescued - linear forces were retained, except for the battleship Poltava (badly damaged by fire and scrapped). Also preserved underwater forces and mine division, minelayers. The real rebuilding and creation of the Red Fleet began with 1924.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
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  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich 29 January 2018 07: 06
    +6
    Initially, the Red Army was voluntary, but this principle quickly showed its failure. And soon they turned to the call - the general mobilization of men of certain ages.

    Failure, not insolvency: no one wanted to fight in a civil war, they had to take people by force.
    So, the fundamental work “The State and the Revolution”, written by Lenin in 1917, defended, including the principle of replacing the regular army with “universal armament of the people”.

    With such "thoughts" a man took power in a country fighting off invaders! fool
    As a result, Zhin taught, but how many victims it was worth!
    And in the new army there were SAME people, the same soldiers and officers, those. the army actually remained the same ..
    Committee on Military and Naval Affairs under the leadership of V. A. Antonov-Ovseenko, N. V. Krylenko and P. E. Dybenko

    All three shot-as traitors, american, japanese. German spies and saboteurs.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 29 January 2018 07: 47
      +6
      And here's even funnier: "The Red Army was commanded by dozens of the best generals who went through two wars, and 100 thousand military officers, including former commanders of the imperial army." If we assume that they essentially violated the oath, Ieyasu Tokugawa was right when he said that there was one excuse for betrayal - "If you won!"
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 29 January 2018 08: 07
        +6
        Well, well, Vyacheslav Olegovich, yes Olgovich! Here you have fun !!
        Quote: kalibr
        And here is even funnier
        Who served, who explained to children ...... And now here you have fun !!!!!!!
        After reading the article, somehow differently about the words of LENIN, that the deadlines are 1,5 months.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. captain
          captain 29 January 2018 09: 52
          +7
          Quote: Reptiloid
          Well, well, Vyacheslav Olegovich, yes Olgovich! Here you have fun !!
          Quote: kalibr
          And here is even funnier
          Who served, who explained to children ...... And now here you have fun !!!!!!!
          After reading the article, somehow differently about the words of LENIN, that the deadlines are 1,5 months.

          The author of the article apparently forgot that various revolutionary and not so parties were corrupting the army. The Bolsheviks and Social Revolutionaries especially tried. We played on human weaknesses and shortcomings. Such as envy, greed, desire for a free life, etc. They destroyed everything to the ground, and then with blood and then restored everything, but again due to the brutal exploitation of the Russian peasant. By the way, an interesting point; the Cossacks were destroyed and now we have timid voices so far that there will soon be no Russians and Russian citizens in the capital of Russia, but I think that cries and groans will soon be heard. Not all the “good” things have sipped the Russian people (I relate to the Russian people all citizens of the former RSFSR), we’ll soon douse.
          1. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 29 January 2018 10: 49
            20
            Captain Today, 09: 52 ↑
            The author of the article apparently forgot that various revolutionary and not so parties were corrupting the army.
            To begin with, it was not the Bolsheviks who broke up the army, but those "revolutionaries" who later formed the provisional government, for which you so advocate here.
            From "like" I have our homegrown crystal bakers. First, they will smear with shit the period of the USSR, in which there were no problems with the "come in large numbers". There was a distribution in the country and it was possible to work not only in Moscow, but everywhere, wherever you went.
            By the way, an interesting point; the Cossacks were destroyed and now we still hear timid voices that there will soon be no Russians and Russian citizens in the capital of Russia
            What side does the destruction of the Cossacks as an estate fit in your subconscious with those who have come along?
            The Russian people have not yet taken all the “good” things (I refer all the citizens of the former RSFSR to the Russian people), we’ll soon suck.
            Thanks to whom? Thanks to you and others like you, justifying the destruction of the USSR. We see a mote in the eyes of others, but we don’t notice in our own eyes, so what?
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 29 January 2018 14: 19
              +3
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              Start with the fact that the Bolsheviks did not break up the army


              those. The Bolsheviks did not decompose the army, it turns out? Oh how.
            2. captain
              captain 29 January 2018 14: 44
              +5
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              Captain Today, 09: 52 ↑
              The author of the article apparently forgot that various revolutionary and not so parties were corrupting the army.
              To begin with, it was not the Bolsheviks who broke up the army, but those "revolutionaries" who later formed the provisional government, for which you so advocate here.
              From "like" I have our homegrown crystal bakers. First, they will smear with shit the period of the USSR, in which there were no problems with the "come in large numbers". There was a distribution in the country and it was possible to work not only in Moscow, but everywhere, wherever you went.
              By the way, an interesting point; the Cossacks were destroyed and now we still hear timid voices that there will soon be no Russians and Russian citizens in the capital of Russia
              What side does the destruction of the Cossacks as an estate fit in your subconscious with those who have come along?
              The Russian people have not yet taken all the “good” things (I refer all the citizens of the former RSFSR to the Russian people), we’ll soon suck.
              Thanks to whom? Thanks to you and others like you, justifying the destruction of the USSR. We see a mote in the eyes of others, but we don’t notice in our own eyes, so what?

              To begin with, it was the Bolsheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries with the Anarchists who corrupted the army, you do not ascribe your merits to others. Leaflets, newspapers with the slogans "Peace to the huts, war to the palaces." Arranged fraternities.
              “For us Russians, from the point of view of the interests of the working masses and the working class of Russia, there can be no doubt whatsoever that the smallest evil would now be immediately — the defeat of tsarism in this war. For tsarism is a hundred times worse than Kaiserism. .. "(Lenin," Letter to Shlyapnikov 17.10.14 ".) Pay attention to the year of writing.
              I love krasnoflazhkovye, a lie for them is the main weapon in the struggle for power. Here really people without shame and conscience.
              N. Bukharin, who was with him in Switzerland, in 1934 in Izvestia in Moscow proudly said that the very first propaganda slogan that Lenin wanted to put forward was the slogan to the soldiers of all the warring armies: "Shoot your officers!" But something confused Ilyich and he preferred the less specific formula "the transformation of the imperialist war into a civil war." There were still no serious problems at the front: neither heavy losses, nor lack of weapons and ammunition, nor retreat, and the Bolsheviks, according to Lenin’s plan, had already launched a fierce struggle to reduce the country's defense capability. They created illegal party organizations at the front, leading anti-war propaganda; issued anti-government leaflets, appeals; carried out strikes and demonstrations in the rear; organized and supported any actions of the masses that weakened the front. That is, they acted as a classic "5-th column."
              And when they came to power themselves, in 41 they shot in batches, fines, fines, assault battalions for officers who were in captivity. But how were the peasants deceived with the land?
              And now about the USSR, the Communists ruined it; Secretary General Gorbachev, candidates for membership in the Politburo Shevarnadze, Yeltsin, 1 Secretary of the Communist Party of Ukraine Kravchuk and a huge number of real Leninists. And now, like you red-flag crooks are trying to blame everything on others. Times have changed and there is more information, people are beginning to learn; where the children of our general secretaries and their grandchildren lived and live, as well as the majority of the children of members of the Politburo, members of the Central Committee, the 1s and other secretaries of regional and city committees and other leaders of the CPSU. By the way, your husband, Chubais (dad colonel, head of the department of Marxism-Leninism), Yegor Gaidar editor of the journal “Communist”, the son of a political worker of rear admiral and other children of the leaders of the CPSU, is all in leadership. You are all red-flagged scoundrels.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 29 January 2018 15: 05
                +2
                Quote: captain
                You villains are all red-flagged.

                Softly said
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 29 January 2018 15: 15
                  +7
                  It is not you, by chance, not so long ago, who copied other people's thoughts from LJ into your comment on the site?
              2. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 01: 03
                +6
                Quote: captain
                For tsarism is a hundred times worse than Kaiserism ... "(Lenin," Letter to Shlyapnikov 17.10.14/XNUMX/XNUMX ".) Pay attention to the year of writing.


                You quote V.I. Lenin out of context and rejoice that you wiped your nose with your left, but, dear, it’s not enough to know the letters in order to read Lenin, you still need to understand him correctly, and then Lenin writes that “Not sabotage of war а the fight against chauvinism and the striving of all propaganda and agitation for international unity ... of the proletariat for the purpose of civil war ..... We must prepare a mass demonstration in the army of more than one nation... ”This is internationalism, which consists in the fact that the proletariat of each country is fighting its bourgeoisie with its tsarism, with its own Kaiserism. Hence the comparison of tsarism with Kaiserism? By the way, if you follow science, then tsarism is not Russia, it’s just superstructure over the basis.

                Further, you allegedly quote Bukharin’s words that Lenin wanted to propose the slogan “Shoot officers”, but Bukharin could say little or could be attributed to him, Lenin wrote in the same letter “It would be a mistake to call for individual acts of shooting officers ... "PSS, T.49, S. 14.
                So before quoting Lenin's quotes, we must deal with them.
            3. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 29 January 2018 14: 54
              +4
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              To begin with, it was not the Bolsheviks who broke up the army, but those "revolutionaries" who later formed the provisional government, for which you so advocate here.

              What are you saying? And who then wrote all the leaflets and antimaterials included in this collection? https://archive.org/stream/bolsheviki_gody_impvoi
              ny_1914_1917/Большевики%20в%20годы%20империалисти
              ческой%20войны%20%281914%20-%20февраль%201917%29%
              20-% 20OCR_djvu.txt

              Yes, and with such a title:
              The collection aims to display at least some data on
              the heroic work carried out by the Bolshevik couples
              tii during the first world imperialist war on
              basification and rallying of the masses under the slogans of the overthrow of the autocracy
              war, the transformation of imperialist war into civil and
              preparations for the victory of workers and peasants in the February bourgeois de
              of the democratic revolution of 1917

              What do you think the Martians did?
            4. RUSS
              RUSS 29 January 2018 15: 32
              +3
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              First, they will smear with shit the period of the USSR, in which there were no problems with the "come in large numbers".

              But what about the "limiters"? laughing
              And you, what was remembered from the USSR only that there were no immigrants?
              1. captain
                captain 29 January 2018 18: 33
                +3
                Quote: RUSS
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                First, they will smear with shit the period of the USSR, in which there were no problems with the "come in large numbers".

                But what about the "limiters"? laughing
                And you, what was remembered from the USSR only that there were no immigrants?

                In memory of him, the special rations of his father and grandfather were deposited.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 29 January 2018 11: 05
            +7
            ROTMISTRU ---- And who scattered the tsarist officers who were against the participation of the Republic of Ingushetia in this war, for the interests of others? It was precisely this fact that served as the beginning of the end of RI.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 29 January 2018 13: 10
              +7
              There was once, before 2015, an article here on the VO was about tsarist officers who had switched to the side of the Reds.
              "" There is absolutely no need to throw out specialists who are useful to us. But they must be put in a certain framework that represents the proletariat the opportunity to control them. "" V.I. Lenin. PSS., 1. 38, p. 6 --- 7. He repeatedly spoke about the need to use the knowledge of these specialists --- military experts. Thus, by the summer of 1918, several thousand officers entered the Red Army, and their number was INCREASED. Such surnames say a lot: L.A. Govorov, I.Kh.Bagramyan, M.D. Bonch-Bruevich (brother of a well-known people's commissar), S.S.Kamenev (most experienced personnel officer, not what you thought), P .P. Lebedev, A.A. Samoilo.
              The general staff of the Russian Navy after the October events almost in full force sided with the Bolsheviks. Rear Admirals of the Imperial Navy: V.M. Altfater, E.A. Behrens, and A.V. Nemits.
            2. captain
              captain 29 January 2018 18: 35
              +3
              Quote: Reptiloid
              ROTMISTRU ---- And who scattered the tsarist officers who were against the participation of the Republic of Ingushetia in this war, for the interests of others? It was precisely this fact that served as the beginning of the end of RI.

              It is useless to argue with you. You apparently studied history at a short course in the history of the CPSU (b). But there is such a work, the Soviet historian Kavtoradze; "Specialists in the service of the family." Published by the USSR. Read, there is a lot of interesting information.
          3. Nehist
            Nehist 30 January 2018 00: 19
            +4
            The army, according to the well-known opinion of Denikin, who cannot be reproached for sympathy for the Bolsheviks, was destroyed not by the Bolsheviks, but by the policy of the Provisional Government and the notorious order No. 1, which destroyed discipline and led to the actual disintegration of the army as a single structure. Accordingly, where is the betrayal of the Bolsheviks, if the country and the army that entered the struggle against Germany in 1914, were destroyed by 1917 by those who liquidated the empire with the monarchy?
            How could the army fight normally under the conditions in which order No. 1 drove it? Please note that when the Bolsheviks fought with their opponents, they tried to prevent this from happening by consistently tightening discipline nuts (including executions), and not unscrewing them, as the Provisional Government did.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 30 January 2018 07: 24
              +2
              Quote: Nehist
              Please note that when the Bolsheviks fought with their opponents, they tried to prevent this from happening by consistently tightening discipline nuts (including executions), and not unscrewing them, as the Provisional Government did.

              Discipline in the Red Army and before the Second World War was limping, and in the Civil War it was minimal.
              1. Nehist
                Nehist 30 January 2018 07: 54
                +3
                So from there and tightening the nuts until the executions, for the Bolsheviks perfectly understood what anarchy means. By the way, about discipline before the Second World War, it is from there that ears grow about thousands of innocently killed Red Army commanders who for the most part were simply fired for misconduct
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 30 January 2018 09: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: Nehist
                  So from there and tightening the nuts until the executions, for the Bolsheviks perfectly understood what anarchy means.

                  "In July 1920, 773 thousand Red Army soldiers defected."

                  To imagine whether it is a lot or a little, we can compare the number of deserters with the number of the Red Army published in 1993 by the Military Memorial Center of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on June 1, 1920. In the Red Army then, there were 4 soldiers and commanders. And it turns out that every sixth deserted. However, a small number of Red Navy men fled from the fleet, and in the land units there were 424 people, and then it turned out that one in five fled. But this calculation can be clarified. The deserters from the spare parts were counted separately, and they were not included in the 317 thousand fugitives that Orlovsky wrote about. And at the front, the army in the army consisted of 3 people. So it turned out that every second ran.

                  "Round-ups yielded minor digital results."

                  Other sources referred to the huge number of deserters from the Red Army. For example, in an essay on the defense of Petrograd during the Civil War, its participant Nikolai Kornatovsky wrote, who later became a historian: "The total number of deserters throughout the Pskov province (8 counties) by February 14, 1919 was approximately determined to 15. According to local workers, the greatest number of deserters was in Opochetsk district - up to 000 people., the smallest - in Kholmsky district, up to 2110 people. " As recalled by the White Guard General I.A. Danilov, captured by the Bolsheviks and agreed to serve in the Red Army, in the Smolensk province there were several tens of thousands of deserters. Siberia and Ukraine did not lag behind, where deviators and fugitives were already considered hundreds of thousands.

                  And the figure found in Orlovsky’s papers, albeit carefully and disguised, was confirmed by S. Olikov, a former employee of the anti-desertion commission. According to him, in July 1920, 444 deserters were detained, and 876 deserters voluntarily returned to service. Moreover, in Olikov’s description the picture looked even worse than that of Orlovsky. Caught and appearing fugitives, if they were not categorized as malicious and were not sent to the tribunal, they were sent to reserve regiments where replenishment was formed for the front-line units. And from there, as Olikov reported, in the same July 328, 421 Red Army soldiers again defected. "
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 19: 32
                    +3
                    Quote: RUSS
                    And at the front, the army in the army consisted of 1 people. So it turned out that every second ran.

                    Interestingly, and the white army melted because of what? Isn't it because of desertion?
            2. Gopnik
              Gopnik 30 January 2018 15: 37
              +2
              Quote: Nehist
              The army, according to the well-known opinion of Denikin, who cannot be reproached for sympathy for the Bolsheviks, was destroyed not by the Bolsheviks, but by the policy of the Provisional Government and the notorious order No. 1


              Denikin did not deny the participation of the Bolsheviks in the collapse of the army, do not distort.
              Order No. 1 was adopted by the Petrosoviet - a gathering of leftists, incl. and the Bolsheviks. And this order did not stop there, the Bolsheviks continued to ruin the army further, even after coming to power.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 31 January 2018 07: 37
                +1
                Quote: Gopnik
                Order No. 1 was adopted by the Petrosoviet - a gathering of leftists, incl. and the Bolsheviks.

                And it was the Bolsheviks who wrote it in the Petrosoviet.
                And the Bolshevik printed it. Moreover, the original does NOT exist and what was accepted in real life, no one knows. What the Bolsheviks wanted and printed.
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 29 January 2018 08: 14
        14
        Assuming they essentially violated the oath
        ... Specify to whom ... to the Provisional Government or sovereign ... Let me remind you, after February 1917, almost the entire generals took the oath to the Provisional Government, and with it the army and navy ... "Around betrayal and deceit" from the diary of Nicholas II .. .Units did not take the oath to the Provisional Government ...
        1. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 29 January 2018 15: 04
          +5
          parusnik ". Specify to whom ..." They themselves do not know.))))
      3. avva2012
        avva2012 29 January 2018 08: 37
        15
        Assuming they essentially violated the oath

        I promise and swear by Almighty God, before His Holy Gospel that I want and should His Imperial Majesty the Autocrat of All-Russian and His Imperial Majesty The All-Russian Throne To serve the heir faithfully and not hypocriticallynot sparing his stomach, to the last drop of blood and all to His High Imperial Majesty For autocracy, power and authority own rights and advantages, legitimized and henceforth legalized, at the very least, power and ability to fulfill. Him Imperial Majesty the state and lands of His enemies with body and blood, in the field and fortresses, with water and in the dry way, in battles, parties, sieges and assaults and in other military cases, brave and strong to mend resistance and try to advance in everything that His Imperial Majesty in any case, it may concern the service and benefit of the state. About the damage His Imperial Majesty's interest, harm and loss, as soon as I tell you about it, I’ll not declare it in good time, but with all sorts of measures I will avert and prevent slipping and I will hold on to all entrusted secrecy, and I’ll be presented with the chief in everything that will benefit the state’s service and service, to properly obey obedience and, in all conscience, to correct, and for one’s self-interest, property and friendship and hostility against service and oath not to come from the team and banner, where I belong, although in the field, wagon train or garrison, never go away, but for it while alive, with edovat will and in all behave and act as an honest, loyal, obedient, brave and efficient officer (Soldier), should. In what may the Lord God Almighty help me. In conclusion of this oath, I kiss the words and cross of my Savior. Amen.

        Nicholas 2, who abdicated the throne, freed them from the oath because they swore allegiance to the autocrat. Well, the oath of the EaP, so it was the interim government: “... I undertake to obey the Provisional Government, now the head of the Russian state, henceforth before the establishment of the will of the people through the Constituent Assembly. " The will of the people was established on November 7 (in the new style) of the 1917 of the year.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 29 January 2018 09: 44
          +4
          Quote: avva2012
          The will of the people was established on November 7 (new style) in 1917.

          VRK one Petrograd is the will .... PEOPLE ?! belay What's wrong with you? Read ONCE AGAIN, learn Russian:
          “... I undertake to obey the Provisional Government, now the head of the Russian state, henceforth until the establishment of the will of the people through the Constituent Assembly ”

          US-will of the people. Where do you see .... November 7th? fool
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 29 January 2018 10: 26
            15
            Soviets of workers, peasants and soldiers deputies, this is also the will of the people. Only the Soviets had the will to take and maintain power, and the CSS turned out to be a limp organization that did not live up to the aspirations of the people, is it really not clear? fool We are talking about will here, right? wink ps a, where are the objections to the first paragraph, about the "betrayal" of the king-father crying?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 January 2018 10: 35
              +4
              Quote: avva2012
              The advice of workers, peasants and soldiers' deputies, this is also the will of the people

              The coup, I’ll repeat the groove, made WRC Petrograd- Learn DOCUMENTS. And where does the country and the will of its people? When will you start studying?
              Further: WHERE do you see in the Oath ---- the so-called. advice "? WHO said they are the will of the people?
              Also, Peasants (85% of the country) REFUSED to participate in the so-called 2 Congress of Soviets, "fraudulently gathered by the Bolsheviks from ... their friends. WHERE is the will of the PEOPLE? There are frauds of the Bolsheviks.
              Quote: avva2012
              ps and where are the objections to the first paragraph, about the "betrayal" of the king-father?

              Tired of bringing you one and the same thing: NIKOLAI called on the army to OBEY VP!
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 29 January 2018 10: 53
                16
                La, la, don’t need documents to the studio where, after the abdication, Nikolai called someone, as well as the assessment of this call from the legal side of the Laws of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                Written refusal of 85% to participate in the Councils, imagine. Who are the "friends" of the Bolsheviks, do not tell me? The revolution was committed in Petrograd, it is the capital, but where was it supposed to take place in Moldova, or what? Here the king’s deposition was at the station Dno, and the Revolution took place, where it should be, in the capital city. Further, the triumphal procession of Soviet power. This is in the territory where no one supported it, right? fool
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 January 2018 11: 13
                  +4
                  Quote: avva2012
                  La, la, don’t need documents to the studio where, after the abdication, Nikolai called someone, as well as the assessment of this call from the legal side of the Laws of the Republic of Ingushetia.

                  Cama, herself! "(C) lol How many times do you have to bring the same thing ?!
                  Quote: avva2012
                  85% refusal to participate in Councils, imagine.

                  Do not know again, not ashamed? The 2nd congress was called workers and soldiers deputies, in view of the fact that the peasant councils refused.
                  In 60% of their Bolsheviks there were none at all, in the minority minority
                  Quote: avva2012
                  The revolution was committed in Petrograd, it is the capital, and where was it supposed to take place in Moldova, or what? Here the king’s deposition was at the bottom of the station, and the revolution was accomplished there, where shouldin the capital city

                  Nowhere to be put, not in the know?
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Further, the triumphal procession of Soviet power. This is in the territory where no one supported it, right?

                  It was “triumphant” only in brains mutilated by large propaganda yes
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 29 January 2018 11: 17
                    11
                    How many times do you have to bring the same thing ?!
                    You explained, do you have any drive, front, rear, 4WD?
                    Documents where? What your so-called brain produces is not proof, is it not clear? fool
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 29 January 2018 11: 36
                      +4
                      Quote: avva2012
                      You explained that you have at least some kind of drive, front, rear, 4WD?

                      Learn Russian, and there will be no stupid questions:
                      bring -Communicate anything to reinforce your opinion; to quote.
                      Explanatory dictionary of Ephraim. T. F. Efremova. 2000.

                      и
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Documents where? What your so-called brain produces is not proof, is it not clear?

                      How many times to bring to remember?fool lol
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 29 January 2018 15: 23
                        +9
                        Everything is clear, the drive to all four "bones". But, in general, silly answers, not all, there are questions, but, you are unique in this. And what to do, where will you take others when they ask you, “bring the source”, and the source is your head.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Everything is clear, the drive to all four "bones". But in general, stupid answers, not for EVERYTHING, there are questions,

                      You are an admirer of Klitschko, yes ?: "Not only only all..." lol laughing
                      Try to speak Russian ... yes
                      Quote: avva2012
                      source, this is your head.

                      Look a week ago (approximately), repeat, even respecting your sclerosis - I will not hi
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 30 January 2018 19: 05
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Look a week ago (approximately), repeat, even respecting your sclerosis - I will not

                        Somehow, I already asked you ... I’ll ask again: Does the Nimbus not press?
                        Explanation: From which bin should anyone remember, let alone search for, that some Olgovich posted there "a week ago (approximately)"?
                2. igordok
                  igordok 29 January 2018 11: 44
                  +4
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Here the king’s deposition was at the station Dno, and the Revolution took place, where it should be, in the capital city.

                  The deposition of the king was in Pskov. They simply wrapped him in the Bottom, preventing him from reaching the capital. The tsar hoped for a general at the headquarters of the Northern Front, in Pskov, and they broke him off.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 29 January 2018 15: 26
                    +8
                    Yes, in general, I know that he was wrapped. But the name of the station is symbolic, don’t you?
                    1. igordok
                      igordok 29 January 2018 15: 32
                      +5
                      I agree. Only accuracy is often needed, even in small things. They can get to the bottom of every little thing.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 29 January 2018 18: 10
                        +7
                        Sincerely, thanks. But, if they want, they will find. Recently I watched a program with Kolpakidi about his new book about repression in the Republic of Ingushetia, from the beginning of the century until WWII. It is about one thing, and there is only one activist there, "and here you have here, data on economics for 1886god." The main thing is that, in my opinion, the people begin to think and ask questions, for example, "and perhaps the motivated army defending their country, to decompose some agitators?" And then, everything will fall into place.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 29 January 2018 21: 35
                        +3
                        It’s great how Alexander wrote: “It’s possible to decompose a motivated army defending your country .......” NO !!!!!! Not in vain, not in vain did we read articles by Vyacheslav Olegovich Shpakovsky and his own comments on various articles! !!!!! When he repeatedly asked about why ours did not try to destroy THEM !!!!!! He also wrote that one person (hunchbacked) could not destroy a strong state !!!!! Also here !!!!! No agitators could destroy a real army, and indeed a state (. Specifically, RI.) !!!!!! It's like that. Words correspond to all times !!!!!!!!!
              2. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 29 January 2018 23: 08
                +4
                Quote: Olgovich
                In addition, Peasants (85% of the country) REFUSED to participate in the so-called 2 Congress of Soviets, "fraudulently gathered by the Bolsheviks from ... their friends. WHERE is the will of the PEOPLE? There are frauds of the Bolsheviks.

                You obviously don’t read the answers to your fabrications, you have already been told about the Peasant Congress of Soviets that in December 1917 it united with the Congress of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies and supported all its decrees. In addition, it is time to understand that 80% of the mass of soldiers were the same peasants, only dressed in soldiers' greatcoats.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 22
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  You obviously don’t read the answers to your fabrications, you were already told about the Peasant Congress of Soviets that in December 1917

                  Learn to read: this is the SECOND CONGRESS, from OCTOBER 25, where the peasants REFUSED. Does it come?
                  Peasant Congress of Soviets that in December 1917 he united
                  Only the smallest part of it, the ignoramus. The rest-REFUSED
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 19: 45
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Learn to read: this is the SECOND CONGRESS, from OCTOBER 25, where the peasants REFUSED. Does it come?

                    You have a disagreement with the perception of events. Firstly, initially, they were two different congresses, secondly, representatives of the peasant congress were at the Second Congress of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies and they supported the Decree on Peace and Land, thirdly, they all united, because the Decree on Peace and the whole peasant majority supported the land, only the representatives of the large landowners refused, from whom this land should be taken away.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 31 January 2018 10: 32
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Firstly, initially, these were two different congresses

                      Got it, finally? lol
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      secondly, representatives of the peasant congress were at the Second Congress

                      You are completely illiterate: the Second Congress of Workers' Deputies is 25-27 October, Congress of Peasantsit's november lol
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      they are still united

                      "United" already in JANUARY 1918 at the 3rd congress of the so-called "tips", chop yourself on the nose. And so, with PART OF the congress, the Bolshevik majority did not recognize it, even in the conditions of their wild dictatorship.
                      Those. the so-called The 2nd Congress of “Soviets” did not represent almost anyone. Even the legitimate (for advice) Central Executive Committee of the Soviets recognized him only ... "meeting of the Bolsheviks"because the Bolsheviks called .... only their friends.
                      In Kiev, such a trick no longer passed, and the Bolsheviks in disgrace were expelled from the congress of councils of Ukraine. yes
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 01: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are completely illiterate: the Second Congress of Workers' Deputies is October 25-27, the Congress of Peasants is November

                        You’re our “literate”, read less anti-Soviet literature, your brains are already boiling from it, you don’t even understand the meaning of what was written, you are distorting everything.
                        To the doctor, sir, urgently to the doctor.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 February 2018 09: 23
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      You’re our “literate”, read less anti-Soviet literature, your brains are already boiling from it, you don’t even understand the meaning of what was written, you are distorting everything

                      FACTS are given to you: 2 Congress-OCTOBER, peasant-NOVEMBER, association-JANUARY. Chop up a bundle on the nose. lol
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      To the doctor, sir, urgently to the doctor.

                      To you -Did not help, but advise me. Ugly ..... No. lol
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 20: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        To the doctor, sir, urgently to the doctor.
                        You did NOT help, but you advise me. Ugly .....

                        Yes, you are advised to consult a doctor on every page of our forum, I’m not the only one, listen to your comrades, you know better from the outside.
      4. Boris55
        Boris55 29 January 2018 09: 19
        +7
        Quote: kalibr
        Ieyasu Tokugawa was right when he said that there was one excuse for betrayal - "If you won!"

        The second time I repeat to you, traitors do not win - their owners win.
        When we talk about victory in the Great Patriotic War, we don’t remember Vlasov and other traitors, we talk about victory over fascist Germany and God forbid if Germany defeated, then Germany would defeat, and not Vlasovn and other rabble whose destiny is to lick Mr.’s boots .
      5. Andy
        Andy 29 January 2018 14: 32
        12
        caliber caliber wrong (to put it mildly). was the king's abdication? what is the oath to the king now? and the next word of oath was what? Fatherland. it was just the oath that White changed, bringing the interventionists to their native land. and the Reds knocked them out to the best of their ability
      6. Glory1974
        Glory1974 29 January 2018 16: 17
        +5
        Assuming they essentially violated the oath,

        Did they break the oath? Having renounced the throne, the king also freed from the oath. After all, they swore allegiance to a particular autocrat. But then they began to serve the motherland, but everyone understood this differently.
      7. Looking for
        Looking for 29 January 2018 16: 58
        +2
        Stupid. The liquidation of the state exempts from the oath.
      8. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 29 January 2018 23: 00
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        And here's even funnier: "The Red Army was commanded by dozens of the best generals who went through two wars, and 100 thousand military officers, including former commanders of the imperial army." If we assume that they essentially violated the oath, Ieyasu Tokugawa was right when he said that there was one excuse for betrayal - "If you won!"

        There is nothing funny and reprehensible, and even more so there is no betrayal. All former officers who went to serve in the Red Army and Navy did not violate any oath. They served the tsar, the tsar did not, began to serve the people of Russia. They, unlike the officers of the white army, did not join the ranks with the interventionists and did not go along with them against their people, against their fatherland.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 30 January 2018 10: 13
          0
          Quote: Alexander Green
          There is nothing funny and reprehensible, and even more so there is no betrayal. All former officers who went to serve in the Red Army and Navy did not violate any oath. They served the tsar, the tsar did not, began to serve the people of Russia. They, unlike the officers of the white army, did not join the ranks with the interventionists and did not go along with them against their people, against their fatherland.

          Suddenly, an analogy, it was recalled. AS in school, that the reason for the uprising of the Decembrists was the situation with the succession to the throne after the death of Emperor Alexander 1. Who denied? Who is sworn to? And as a result of what?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 19: 55
            +3
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Suddenly, an analogy, it was recalled. AS in school, that the reason for the uprising of the Decembrists was the situation with the succession to the throne after the death of Emperor Alexander 1. Who denied? Who is sworn to? And as a result of what?

            There is an even clearer analogy: palace coups under Elizabeth, Catherine II, Alexander I, accompanied by the killing of their predecessors. Why, for example, the guards who put Catherine on the throne, too, can not be called traitors?
            They will not name it, because our counterparts have double standards.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 31 January 2018 02: 49
              +4
              So, there is also the murder of the “anointed of God”, which for that time, and for ours, in general, goes beyond all the bounds of good and evil. Even Dante, in my opinion, does not have such a place in Hell. Apparently, for them, outside of time and space. But for current admirers of the RCMP, such thoughts do not occur.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 31 January 2018 04: 50
                +2
                Quote: avva2012
                So, there is also the murder of the “anointed of God”, which for that time, and for ours, in general, goes beyond all the bounds of good and evil. Even Dante, in my opinion, does not have such a place in Hell. Apparently, for them, outside of time and space. But for current admirers of the RCMP, such thoughts do not occur.
                And it was not the Bolsheviks or workers who killed him, but the monarchist conspirators !!!!!! Well, about the overseas where did those who the Westerners saw an example ---- how many times did they overthrow the monarchs and soak them? And nothing, they are not ashamed and do not repent.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 31 January 2018 08: 06
                  +3
                  So, Dmitry, this is the practice of double standards. It’s possible for them, they’re not like all this bylo. (See. Bolsheviks or workers)))). Why should they repent? Faith, in their opinion, is necessary for the same (see bydlo), and for the elect, a higher mind is power and a "golden calf", and it is not in vain that it is among the elite that all kinds of societies of Satanists and Masons are developed. So, to strangle the monarch with a scarf, just spit, since power and money loom over this action. Hell is not for them, but for (see .....).
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 31 January 2018 12: 01
                    +3
                    So for the sake of it, the whole history of the school will have to be remembered and bookmarks made by normal authors, and not
                    .And somehow about the poor Kennedy, who was killed in the shit of shit democracy at least once, who remembered !!!!!!! Ah! Ah!
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 29 January 2018 09: 32
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      Military and Maritime Affairs Committee under the leadership of V. A. Antonov-Ovseenko, N. V. Krylenko and P. E. Dybenko
      All three shot- like traitors, American, Japanese. German spies and saboteurs.

      By the way, I can’t get an answer from the Bolsheviks: WHO was real traitor and bandit: those whom shot in 1937 or those who shot?
      Confused .... belay request yes
      1. Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711 29 January 2018 10: 53
        13
        Olgovich Today, 09: 32 ↑
        By the way, I can’t get an answer from the Bolsheviks: WHO was a real traitor and bandit: those who were shot in 1937 or those who shot?

        Who needs that and shot. It’s a pity that they just left your ancestors alive, right "pichal-bida." crying
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 29 January 2018 11: 09
          +9
          Well, this, you are in vain laughing Who would entertain us with Moldavian “logic” now?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 29 January 2018 11: 48
            +4
            Quote: avva2012
            Who are the real bandits: those WHO were shot, or those who were shot?
            Shot, I recall, the FIRST organizers of the Red Army, DRUGS! . So are they bandits or not ?!

            Logic You are our unknowing, hi answer at least you: WHO real gangsters: those WHO shot, or those who shot? belay
            Shot, I recall, the FIRST organizers of the Red Army, DRUGS !. yes So are they bandits or not ?! belay
            1. Looking for
              Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 12
              +7
              Enough to engage in demagogy. Let’s take you to make it clear — 20 years ago you were a harmless insignificance. Now. After 20 years, you were reborn into a conscious enemy. I hope. I explained quite clearly?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 28
                +1
                Quote: Seeker
                Enough to engage in demagogy. Take you to make it clear to you — 20 years ago you were a harmless insignificance. Now. After 20 years, you were reborn into a conscious enemy.Hopefully. Did I explain clearly enough?

                You never succeeded. It did not work out now. lol yes
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 01: 55
              +4
              Quote: Olgovich
              Who are the real bandits: those WHO were shot, or those who were shot?
              Shot, I recall, the FIRST organizers of the Red Army, DRUGS !. So are they bandits or not?

              During the revolution, random people of various kinds always cling to the victorious party; in addition, it is necessary to attract bourgeois specialists. So in the years 1918-1921 For example, many former members from other bankrupt political parties joined the Bolshevik party, these are left and right Socialist-Revolutionaries, Cadets, Trotskyists, Mensheviks, Bundists, Trudoviks, etc. And they immediately began the struggle against the Leninist Central Committee, but so far V.I. Lenin was alive, his authority did not allow him to openly fight, but when he died, a real offensive began on the Stalinist Central Committee both on the left and on the right.
              Some Bolsheviks also joined these deviations, who took leading positions in the revolution, including the People’s Commissars, but while the civil war was on and it was necessary to agitate and organize the people, they were at their best, but as soon as collectivization and industrialization began and special knowledge was in demand , they began to cope with the tasks.
              It goes without saying that Stalin replaced them with young energetic specialists, but the old guard, instead of taking it for granted, considered themselves underestimated and began the struggle with Stalin and the Stalin Central Committee. Of course, in this struggle, one way or another, they closed with the real enemies of the Soviet government, and they were tried for specific crimes against the Soviet government. In addition, many came under repression for negligence, for embezzlement, for bribery, etc. sins. So draw your own conclusions who is who.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 32
                +2
                Quote: Alexander Green
                During the revolution, various kinds are always clinging to the winning party.

                Those. ALL People's Commissars of the first SNK (and ALL were shot) -addicted bandits and traitors? belay request
                Those. The thief did ... um, yes !! lol Good for you!
                I shake my hand for recognizing this fact. hi
                Rt
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 19: 57
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Those. ALL People’s Commissars of the first SNK (and ALL were shot) -adjured bandits and traitors?
                  Those. The thief did ... um, yes !! Well done!
                  I shake my hand for recognizing this fact.

                  Dear "worker", you have progressive problems with the perception of what is written, urgently contact a psychiatrist ....
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 31 January 2018 02: 51
                    +4
                    Pathology of conscience, doctors do not treat.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 31 January 2018 07: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Pathology of conscience, doctors do not treat.

                      I agree: it didn’t help you ... hi
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 31 January 2018 08: 19
                        +3
                        Why didn’t it help? If not treated, then, respectively, they will not help. I understand that you have problems with the logic, but not as muchcrying
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 31 January 2018 07: 41
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Dear "worker", you have progressive problems with the perception of what is written, ..

                    You yourself read from the outside: you recognized the whole SNK as bandits lol Right, I do not argue.
                    immediately consult a psychiatrist ..

                    I won’t give you the same advice: it’s too late for you ... hi
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 31 January 2018 08: 21
                      +2
                      Are you leaving us? crying crying? Alexander will remain without advice crying crying crying
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 1 February 2018 09: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Are you leaving us?

                        belay
                        Once again. my friend, I warmly recommend you LEARN your native Russian language hi
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 29 January 2018 11: 20
          +4
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          Who needs that and shot. .

          So you did NOT answer the question again: Who are the real bandits: those WHO were shot, or those who were shot?
          Shot I remind you FIRST organizers of the Red Army, DRUGS! yes . So bandits are they or not?! belay request
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          It’s a pity that they just left your ancestors alive, right "pichal-bida

          So who would you, parasites, feed, if not for the RUSSIAN PEASANT? lol yes
          1. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 29 January 2018 11: 27
            18
            Olgovich Today, 11: 20 ↑
            Who are the real bandits
            You and others like you, those who advocated the collapse of the USSR.
            So who would you, parasites, feed, if not a RUSSIAN PEASANT? lol yes
            Who are the parasites? My ancestors rebuilt the country from the devastation caused by your crystal bakers. These are my ancestors defended the country in the Second World War. These are my ancestors restored the destroyed country after the Second World War. My grandfather built a factory in our city, and then worked at the same factory as a caster, although he could have worked in the district committee of the party. Did you call them parasites? Say thanks to the Internet that you can spoil with impunity, I would look how you told me all this in person, and so that later it will be left from your face.
            And then, what do you have to do with the Russian peasantry?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 January 2018 11: 45
              +3
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              Olgovich Today, 11: 20 ↑
              Who are the real bandits
              You and others like you, those who advocated the collapse of the USSR.

              THIRD TIME you did not answer the SIMPLE question: Who are the real bandits: those WHO were shot, or those who were shot in 1937? lol Did something break in the receiving mechanism? lol

              Quote: Varyag_0711
              what do you have to do with the Russian peasantry?

              My grandfathers, the great Russian Peasants! Reliance and foundation of the Russian State at all times!
              1. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 29 January 2018 12: 00
                15
                Olgovich Today, 11: 45 ↑
                My grandfathers, the great Russian Peasants! Reliance and foundation of the Russian State at all times!
                Oh, how does this peasantry turn out to be the support of the state? fool And excuse me, who forges weapons, who develops new equipment, are also peasants? I do not want to offend the peasants in any way, but they are not the only support of the state. The state is strong with its army, and for the army to be and be strong, it is not only food that is required. First of all, it must be perfectly armed, and the peasants cannot arm it, well, perhaps only with a pitchfork and hoes. Arm the army can workers and labor intelligentsia, designers, engineers, etc. Peasants are again not able to dress the army. So there is less ambition for the “Russian Peasant” of the Moldavian spill, and less for large “buccaffs”, otherwise diarrhea will catch from its “significance” ... fool laughing
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 29 January 2018 13: 21
                  +3
                  Of course the peasantry, where did the loot be pumped out? Where did they get the cheap labor force from and move into the dugout-barracks, whom, in the end, were they mobilized to fight in the army? Of course, food is not the only thing that is required, but if there is no food, then everything else will not be needed, because those who die of hunger, excellent weapons will not help.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 January 2018 14: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  Oh, how does this peasantry turn out to be the support of the state?

                  You don't know that either? RUSSIAN PEASANTITY-Pylon of Russia and the basis of her army in all wars, including the Second World War.

                  Kill it yourself with a knot yes

                  PS, answer the question, huh? lol
              2. avva2012
                avva2012 29 January 2018 15: 36
                +9
                My grandfathers, the great Russian Peasants!
                Straight, great? belay And, well, yes, it’s a kind of Olgovich. Just what is it for them from riches to mud? Although, nevertheless, the "great" !!! laughing Not some, there, peasants with a small letter, lapotniki, and Grandfathers, mine, Russian Peasants !!!! Understood. fellow And what, you, then yourself, have chosen such a nickname, modest? wink
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 29 January 2018 16: 40
                  +1
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Straight, great

                  Great because they built our state
                  Quote: avva2012
                  Grandfathers, my, Russian Peasants !!!! Understood.

                  Yes, and with a capital letter yes
                  1. Looking for
                    Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 22
                    +7
                    Specify what this is ours? I see you and people like you like the Ukrainian fascist nationalists-believe that after 1918 1991 immediately came.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: Seeker
                      Clarify what is ours

                      Great RUSSIA!
                  2. avva2012
                    avva2012 29 January 2018 18: 23
                    +2
                    Modesty beautifies? No, this is not my decoration, right? wink
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Modesty beautifies? No, this is not my decoration, right? wink

                      You are not like that, are you waiting for the tram? wink yes
                      PS So who is the bandit: shot or shot? Keep quiet Still would! if you don’t answer, you’ll get into yourself! lol
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 30 January 2018 09: 24
                        +3
                        While there is nobody on the site, the child decided to fool around? wink laughing, to talk, though, with himself enough. I will not interfere, enjoy. wassat
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 30
                      +1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      While there is nobody on the site, the child decided to fool around?
                      Baby ?! lol Unfortunately no.

                      Quote: avva2012
                      talk though with myself plenty. I will not interfere, enjoy

                      You did not answer TWO questions, by the way:
                      1. You are not like that, are you waiting for the tram? yes
                      2. Who is the gangster: who shot or executed? hi
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 31 January 2018 08: 28
                        +1
                        This, I already realized, you have problems with formal logic and understanding, respectively. Obsession, you have already shown with the question of New Russia. They answered you then and answered, now. I can’t understand if you liked it or not.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 1 February 2018 09: 34
                      +1
                      Quote: avva2012
                      This, I already realized, you have problems with formal logic and understanding, respectively.

                      I did not ask WHAT you understood, but what didn’t (it is clear that, as always, nothing).
                      Therefore, taking these difficulties of yours, I asked the SIMPLE questions (more than once) that you are AFRAID of (well, you cannot lol ) -to answer.
                      Ask in another topic. Maybe the true Bolshevik will respond
                      Quote: avva2012
                      Obsession, you have already shown with the question of New Russia. They answered you then and answered, now. I can’t understand if you liked it or not.

                      No one answered.
                      The question was simple: WHO? I-silence. and with braids are .... yes lol
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 20: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The question was simple: WHO? I-silence. and with braids are ....

                        To the doctor, sir! Immediately!! You already have barnacles !!!
                  3. brn521
                    brn521 30 January 2018 10: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Great because they built our state

                    No. The state was built by those who used the peasants as a spending renewable resource.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: brn521
                      No. The state was built by those who used the peasants as a spending renewable resource.

                      Yes. Without them, users would remain empty spotlights.
                      1. brn521
                        brn521 30 January 2018 12: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes. Without them, users would remain empty spotlights.

                        No. In this case, cows can also be recorded in state builders, since they have been milked. State builders were proud that they were not peasants.
                    2. Nikitin
                      Nikitin 30 January 2018 14: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: brn521
                      No. In this case, cows can also be recorded in state builders, since they have been milked.

                      Then show the country built by cows. (Or at least a village)
                      1. brn521
                        brn521 30 January 2018 15: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        Then show the country built by cows.

                        This is the same as showing a country built by peasants. No such.
                    3. Nikitin
                      Nikitin 30 January 2018 15: 43
                      +1
                      Quote: brn521
                      This is the same as showing a country built by peasants. No such.

                      Absolutely ALL peasants are built. But no cows.
                      1. brn521
                        brn521 30 January 2018 16: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        Absolutely ALL peasants built

                        What can a peasant build? House. The maximum is the village. With the headman, who is still a peasant. But this will not even be close to either a country or a state. Now, if someone conquers this village, or it enters into some kind of union with the regular payment of tribute for the military and administrative needs of non-peasants, then another thing.
                        The state is an organization. And there are no examples for such an organization to be created by peasants.
                      2. brn521
                        brn521 30 January 2018 17: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        But no cows.

                        By the way. The defining moment of a state is recognition by other states. If you look at primitive communities, you can probably find those in which all, without exception, were peasants. And at the same time recognized by other primitive communities. I only know the tribes of the Indians of the great plains, who, without exception, were hunters. Moreover, they belonged to tribes that recognized each other. Those. were kind of mini-states built on the basis of the clan principle. That's just the problem. They were not even close peasants. This is a funny coincidence. Horses for them were members of the tribe. And the herds of bisons are communities with which it was necessary to build relations at the same level as with other tribes. If such an Indian made up a political map, he would draw on it not only tribes, but also herds of bison. Those. at the level of the Indians, cows could indeed be part of cow tribal states. For the Indians, man as a species was not something special.
                        But with agriculture just a bummer. Even if we take African tribes, not everyone was engaged in vegetable gardens. Hunters, along with the leader, preferred to hunt or fight. Poking around in the garden for them is specifically to be dishonored.
              3. Nehist
                Nehist 30 January 2018 00: 32
                +3
                Dear Olgovich! No need to engage in a substitution of concepts. Each time gives rise to those processes that are peculiar to him. For example, Dumas three musketeers. From the modern point of view and morality, they are drunkards, murderers, enemies of the state. And from the point of view of that time, quite respectable, average personalities. So how will we evaluate them? From what point of view? So with the red people's commissars. So do not ask questions henceforth answers to which depend only on a person’s personal perception of a particular situation
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Nehist
                  Dear Olgovich! No need to engage in a substitution of concepts. Each time gives rise to those processes that are peculiar to him. For example, Dumas three musketeers. From the modern point of view and morality, they are drunkards, murderers, enemies of the state. And from the point of view of that time, quite respectable, average personalities. So how will we evaluate them? From what point of view? So with the red people's commissars.

                  You forget, Dear Nekhist, that BEFORE the time of the Red People’s Commissars and their mutual annihilation on the so-called "trials", there was another time, with the jury trials justifying even the terrorist Zasulich. Have you compared?
                  Quote: Nehist
                  so do not ask questions henceforth answers to which depend only on a person’s personal perception of a particular situation

                  I will ask uncomfortable questions, to which NOBO from avv does not want to give an answer. For as you do not answer, you will fall into yourself.
                  1. Nehist
                    Nehist 30 January 2018 07: 51
                    +3
                    And BEFORE time with jury trials justifying the terrorist Zasulich, there was a suzerain court whose guilty and justified could be anyone according to a whim Compare? !!!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 35
                      0
                      Quote: Nehist
                      А BEFORE time with jury trials justifying the terrorist Zasulich was a suzerain court whose guilty as well as justified could be anyone according to a whim Compared? !!!

                      That's it, what DO. And that is the norm. But the medieval "courts" of the 1930s were AFTER the Jury. And it is a test in the distant past.
                      1. Nehist
                        Nehist 31 January 2018 03: 55
                        +3
                        You really don’t understand what they live in the present? These or other actions can be evaluated only in the current time. All estimates in the afterlife are a priori incorrect, since they reflect only a purely personal assessment. And yes, so you know. All laws have a way out of one law that no one canceled as it is and was the basis for the survival of man as a species. Who is stronger is right
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 31 January 2018 07: 49
                      +2
                      Quote: Nehist
                      You really don’t understand what they live in the present? These or other actions can be evaluated only in the current time. All estimates in the afterlife are a priori incorrect, since they reflect only a purely personal assessment.

                      On the contrary, an objective assessment of events appears much later than the time of the event, taking into account newly discovered circumstances, new knowledge, analysis work (for which time is needed).
                      Quote: Nehist
                      All estimates in the afterlife are a priori incorrect, since they reflect only a purely personal assessment

                      A priori are more true and contain an assessment of society.
                      Quote: Nehist
                      And yes, so you know. All laws have a way out of one law that no one canceled as it is and was the basis for the survival of man as a species. Who is stronger is right

                      The Bolsheviks lost.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 01: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The Bolsheviks lost.

                        Early rejoice, firstly, History is developing in a spiral, secondly, all roads lead to Communism!
            2. Alex_59
              Alex_59 29 January 2018 12: 20
              10
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              You and others like you, those who advocated the collapse of the USSR.

              The descendant of the great Russian peasants just need to answer his own question - to put him on the wall for violation of the oath to defend the USSR would be a crime, or a fair retribution for treason?
              After answering this question, other questions about the 37 year will cease to torment him. The answer is on the surface, but our Moldovan friend pretends to be a hose.
              1. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 29 January 2018 12: 28
                12
                Alex_59 Today, 12:20 ↑ New
                The answer is on the surface, but our Moldovan friend pretends to be a hose.
                And he always pretends to be a hose when it suits him. Indeed, in Soviet times, if of course he then lived, which I doubt, he would be an October Revolutionary - a pioneer - a Komsomol member - and possibly a member of the CPSU, would take an oath in the army and would not think about dressing as a baker. In general, a weather vane in a word, a primitive changeling. If we assume the miracle that the USSR will be restored tomorrow, then this one in the forefront will run to change shoes on the fly and the first will shout "glory to the CPSU" ... Such a worthless breed of people exists unfortunately.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 02
                +1
                Quote: Alex_59
                The descendant of the great Russian peasants just need to answer his own question - to put him on the wall for violation of the oath to defend the USSR would be a crime, or a fair retribution for treason?

                How many empty chatter instead of a SIMPLE answer to a SIMPLE question. lol
                I can complicate the question if it is too simple for you: ALL Commissars of October 26, 1917 were shot in 1937-s8, as bandits, spies and traitors (except, of course, the leaders).
                Who are the criminals: those who are shot or shot? Or do you Dodge the answer too - like the Vikings, Abba, etc.? yes
                No doubt.... lol
                1. Alex_59
                  Alex_59 29 January 2018 18: 18
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  How much empty talk

                  It is not for you to evaluate whether this is empty talk. I’m personally convinced that chatter is precisely the goal, if it comes to such a flexible adaptation as you. It just shows how people like you merged the Russian Empire. And you personally-leaked the Soviet Union. They took the oath, sang a hymn, kissed the banner. And then the oath was changed. So do not you ask such questions, Mr. "Bolshevik-monarist"))))
                  And to your stupid children's question about the "bandits" I answered below.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 30 January 2018 07: 55
                    +1
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    It is not for you to evaluate whether this is empty talk.

                    To me, just talking about me.
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    And you personally-leaked the Soviet Union. They took the oath, sang a hymn, kissed the banner. And then the oath was changed.

                    The USSR defended it as a country, not a regime. The Soviet oath was taken once in a lifetime, and the other was not accepted, despite being forced and threatened.
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    so what not to ask you such questions, Mr. "Bolshevik-monarist"

                    To me.
                    Quote: Alex_59
                    And to your stupid children's question about the "bandits" I answered below.

                    The answer is NO, for you get into FAMILY. how not to answer. lol .
                2. brn521
                  brn521 30 January 2018 11: 02
                  +4
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Who are the criminals: those who are shot or shot?

                  The shooters seem to be not convicted. The executed are rehabilitated. Conclusion - neither one nor the other are criminals.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 30 January 2018 11: 36
                    +1
                    Quote: brn521
                    The shooters seem to be not convicted. The executed are rehabilitated. Conclusion - neither one nor the other are criminals.

                    There are corpses, no guilty. Class! good
                    1. brn521
                      brn521 30 January 2018 13: 06
                      +3
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      There are corpses, no guilty. Class!

                      Exactly. German soldiers in WWII were criminals? Only a few are identified as such by the courts. Nevertheless, they were killed by hundreds of thousands. The same goes for political war and power sharing. Of course, even the same Romanovs who illegally seized power can be recorded as criminals. And to rehabilitate all those whom they exiled or executed for political reasons. But with this approach, the term "criminal" will lose its meaning. If the concept is too stretched, it will cease to define anything.
                      1. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 30 January 2018 15: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: brn521
                        German soldiers in WWII were criminals?

                        War and judicial executions are two different things.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 31 January 2018 05: 03
                        0
                        But it is worth remembering how the power of the Romanovs began.? Precisely with what it ended!
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 31 January 2018 07: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: brn521
                        Exactly. German soldiers in WWII were criminals? Only a few identified by the courts

                        What is the connection with you ?!
                        The war of countries and internal reprisals against specific people ... request
                  2. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 30 January 2018 13: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: brn521
                    The shooters seem to be not convicted.

                    Convicted and not rehabilitated. In particular, comrade Yezhov. The main culprit of the great terror. One of those rare cases when it can be said that this is clearly a negative character in every sense. Stalin, of course, is also to blame, and he understood this, but of course he did not officially acknowledge it (weak politicians do not do this, and those who do follow the path of Nicholas II).
                    1. brn521
                      brn521 30 January 2018 14: 07
                      0
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Convicted and not rehabilitated.

                      Yezhov was not convicted of executions.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Stalin, of course, is also to blame

                      He didn’t seem to have been officially condemned. To convict, you need to start a case, investigators will dig documents, interrogate witnesses. As a result, they can chain up to the initiators of the case. As a result, they will collect dangerous compromising materials and become dangerous witnesses themselves.
                      1. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 30 January 2018 16: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: brn521
                        And what do you make of him a deity?

                        Not on your nelly. But NOBODY, without his order, was eliminated from the people's commissars.
                        Quote: brn521
                        With this wording, any higher manager is simply obliged to abolish the position that Yezhov holds. In fact, why?

                        He is the EXECUTOR of another's will. All. These are needed.
                        Quote: brn521
                        . And now Yezhov, as I suppose, overdid.

                        Those. shot a couple of extra friends of Stalin? Do you believe that?
                    2. Nikitin
                      Nikitin 30 January 2018 15: 38
                      +2
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      In particular, comrade Yezhov. The main culprit of the great terror. One of those rare cases when it can be said that this is clearly a negative character in every sense.

                      What are you doing from Stalin, a weak-willed, moronic fool?
                      Those. Does some dwarf imprison, torture, judge, destroy his comrades-friends in the Council of People's Commissars and the Revolution, but does he either “don’t know” or is powerless? fool
                      Yes Yezhov-NOBODY executor running errands, like Yehuda. Call the revolver the main culprit of the great terror lol
                      1. Alex_59
                        Alex_59 30 January 2018 16: 12
                        +2
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        What are you doing from Stalin, a weak-willed, moronic fool?

                        And what do you make of him a deity? Here Putin’s stealing from under the nose at the Vostochny Cosmodrome into impudent, Siluanov takes bribes, Mutko pours the Olympics, but he can’t do anything. How so? He’s the main one, he can do anything, it’s PUTIN!
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        Yes Yezhov-NOBODY and call in any way, an errand performer, like Yehuda.

                        With this wording, any higher manager is simply obliged to abolish the position that Yezhov holds. In fact, why? If he can’t do anything, doesn’t represent anything, and nothing depends on him? Why this mediator? Let Stalin himself steers the affairs of the NKVD, directly!
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        Those. Does some dwarf imprison, torture, judge, destroy his comrades-friends in the Council of People's Commissars and the Revolution, but does he either “don’t know” or is powerless?

                        The truth is somewhere in between. Stalin was undoubtedly in the know. Therefore, a great terror and on his conscience. The only question is what did he want to solve by arranging such a purge? It is clear that he alone could not do this, because he has one head, he cannot manually control everything. Therefore, Yezhov is needed - a man who, having accepted the strategic task, will begin its practical implementation at the tactical level. That's what he is responsible for. What was assigned to Yezhov? It seems that after a series of waves of "opposition", Stalin decided to nullify all the "dissenters". It was necessary to eliminate those old revolutionaries who interfered with Stalin's plans. Remove the talkers. To remove those who are carried away by revolutionary rhetoric and incapable of creative work. And Yezhov, as I suppose, overdid it. Why is a separate issue. Maybe there really was no order with his head, maybe he wanted to curry favor, or maybe he was too fanatical. I believe that Stalin directed the general course of the purge, but did not go into small details — this was not the point for the head of the country. And when he delved into it, he realized that it was not at all what was required according to the original plan. But Yezhov is not the person who could solve the task of cleaning in the sense that Stalin had. As a result, inwardly, Stalin probably realized that he had made a mistake, but naturally didn’t admit it out loud, and Yezhov quickly leaked it. In exchange, he appointed to rake a more adequate Beria.
                      2. RUSS
                        RUSS 30 January 2018 16: 16
                        +3
                        Quote: Nikitin-
                        What are you doing from Stalin, a weak-willed, moronic fool?

                        How many times have I been asked the question of where was Stalin during the repressions? And what kind of leader is this, in the country of which executions and deportations, but he is not getting involved in business? Well, if it is somewhere on the outskirts of the Union, what about the executions of the high command staff? And the deportation of peoples?
                        What did Stalin have to do with it?
            3. captain
              captain 29 January 2018 16: 41
              +6
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              Olgovich Today, 11: 20 ↑
              Who are the real bandits
              You and others like you, those who advocated the collapse of the USSR.
              So who would you, parasites, feed, if not a RUSSIAN PEASANT? lol yes
              Who are the parasites? My ancestors rebuilt the country from the devastation caused by your crystal bakers. These are my ancestors defended the country in the Second World War. These are my ancestors restored the destroyed country after the Second World War. My grandfather built a factory in our city, and then worked at the same factory as a caster, although he could have worked in the district committee of the party. Did you call them parasites? Say thanks to the Internet that you can spoil with impunity, I would look how you told me all this in person, and so that later it will be left from your face.
              And then, what do you have to do with the Russian peasantry?

              And your grandfather cracked a newspaper. Really? Or maybe some bread? Did your grandfather go and get the money for the restoration? And my grandfather (by the way disabled war, without toes on one foot) plowed at your grandfather, for workdays, that is, for sticks. And after he plowed at your grandfather, he plowed on his 50 acres to feed his children. By the way, he fought in the 1 Horse in Civil. He expressed an interesting idea; the Bolsheviks were for the people, and the Communists were crooks. Everything says taken from the peasants.
              1. Looking for
                Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 32
                10
                Get down. The last kulak. And now it’s clear where you come from. That all your breed hated the Soviet regime.
                1. captain
                  captain 29 January 2018 19: 47
                  +5
                  I’m not calm down, my grandfather fought for Soviet power, unlike many who write here. And he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner for the fight against Basmachism. He fought in the Great Patriotic War, became disabled. He was awarded orders for the Great Patriotic War of the Red Star and the medal "For Courage." I fought in Afghanistan in 781 orb and 181 SMEs. I was awarded three orders for Afghanistan, and I smell you scoundrels inwardly. my breed fought for Russia and for Soviet power, by the way the Social Revolutionaries came up with it. And you are a scoundrel apparently from a breed of suffering in the political department. Such Zionists like you want to make slaves of the peoples of Russia.
                  1. Nehist
                    Nehist 30 January 2018 00: 45
                    +6
                    Rotmister! Do you know that the collective farm had a minimum standard of workdays? From 60 to 100? And having fulfilled it, the collective farmer could do the rest of his time in his own affairs. And you are aware that the workers sold 100% of the products to the state at the state price, but the peasants from their plots who, by the way, reached the 2 at IVS plus livestock only 10% and then at a price higher than that of the state but lower than the market. But the rest they ordered as they wanted. And yes, the workdays under Khrushchev began to cause negativity. With IVS this was not
                    1. captain
                      captain 30 January 2018 11: 27
                      +4
                      Quote: Nehist
                      Rotmister! Do you know that the collective farm had a minimum standard of workdays? From 60 to 100? And having fulfilled it, the collective farmer could do the rest of his time in his own affairs. And you are aware that the workers sold 100% of the products to the state at the state price, but the peasants from their plots who, by the way, reached the 2 at IVS plus livestock only 10% and then at a price higher than that of the state but lower than the market. But the rest they ordered as they wanted. And yes, the workdays under Khrushchev began to cause negativity. With IVS this was not

                      Yeah, 60 worked as a milkmaid for days, and then the cows milk themselves. Or in a pigsty for 100 days, and then the pigs, meeting the wishes of the next congress, feed themselves, drink, and clean themselves. You are a true communist. Such as you built communism in 1981.
                      They also earned pluses, God, how many science-fiction storytellers IN! And they believe in what they write about.
                      1. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 30 January 2018 14: 59
                        +3
                        Quote: captain
                        Yeah, 60 worked as a milkmaid for days, and then the cows milk themselves. Or in a pigsty for 100 days, and then the pigs, meeting the wishes of the next congress, feed themselves, drink, and clean themselves. You are a true communist. Such as you built communism in 1981.

                        Or bread and a garden: I worked a hundred days for my uncle, and then I’m FREE and you can grow bread for you in NOVEMBER. They are all out of this world.
                    2. brn521
                      brn521 30 January 2018 12: 01
                      +2
                      Quote: Nehist
                      Do you know that the collective farm had a minimum standard of workdays? 60 to 100?

                      Is this after the war? No. In summer, almost seven days a week. And they came home - they fell. Housekeeping was conducted by children and the elderly. Winter weekend of course more. But there is no sense in this - this is the season when you really had to survive. And in parallel, still go to work on the collective farm, wrapped in pre-revolutionary flaw - horses and cows will not feed themselves and will not feed themselves. So the work was above the roof. Houses were replaced instead of dugouts already in the 50s. Although the forests around were in bulk. But the most offensive, in the end it became obvious that life is normal only in cities. And only bits and pieces fall into the village. So my father went to Moscow State University four times before he entered, just to break out of this swamp. And those who did not break out, somehow not inclined to sing praises from happiness. All the same, although the Communists provided a certain living wage, the promised equality was not even mentioned. Here the captain and swears. By the way, a career in the army was just one way to break into the people. And you will retire early, and they will give the apartment.
              2. brn521
                brn521 30 January 2018 11: 19
                +3
                Quote: captain
                the Bolsheviks were for the people, and the Communists were crooks.

                This is the same as faith in a good king. The only way for a peasant to really arrange his life is to stop being a peasant.
                1. Gopnik
                  Gopnik 30 January 2018 15: 15
                  +3
                  and the rest "did not fit into the market", more precisely, in the power
          2. Alex_59
            Alex_59 29 January 2018 11: 35
            11
            Quote: Olgovich
            Who are the real bandits: those WHO were shot, or those who were shot?

            And who are you? The Soviet construction battalionist, pioneer, Komsomol member (or maybe a party member, huh?), Who plowed his whole life for the Bolshevik regime, or a conservative monarchist who considers the Bolsheviks to be bandits?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 06
              +2
              Quote: Alex_59
              And who are you?

              This has to do with my question about 1937r? belay
              I’ll answer well: I was NOT there yet.
              Now answer YOU. hi
              1. Looking for
                Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 34
                +4
                I answered your question about the 37th year.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 30 January 2018 08: 57
                  +2
                  Quote: Seeker
                  I answered your question about the 37th year.

                  Myself- lol poke it! lol
              2. Alex_59
                Alex_59 29 January 2018 18: 15
                +8
                Quote: Olgovich
                I’ll answer well: I was NOT there yet.

                In the 1991 year was not? Boy, you made a mistake like the site, here are adults. Or was, but changed the oath of the USSR? If a monarchist - why did he swear allegiance to the USSR, served the Bolsheviks? A faithful servant of the regime means. ))))
                Or changed beliefs? At that moment, apparently, when the oath demanded to fulfill the duty, he sharply became a monarchist))))
                Quote: Olgovich
                Now answer YOU.

                I believe that to answer such stupid questions is to humiliate the questioner. If the questioner with his mind did not understand this, then what can be answered? Any answer will not be understood.
                However, for others I will express my point of view. Life is such a complicated thing that it will not work to divide everyone into bandits and saints. Each person is mistaken, everyone once did meanness consciously, everyone did something good. Can we then be called "bandits"? I think no. These bandits, i.e. those whose bad side is much more good - units. Were there such people among those executed in the year 37? Definitely yes. Were there among those who shot such? Definitely yes. Were there good, honest people among those shot? Yes too. And among those who shot. Yes too! All that has happened is the resultant of many forces and aspirations. Errors caused by revolutionary fanaticism, errors, intentional meannesses, sincere beliefs in the correctness of such actions. Everything is connected. If the tsarist authorities had implemented reforms in time and ruthlessly crushed the underground, if not for the loose interim government, if not for the tough and decisive Bolsheviks, if not for the white movement, if not for the civil war, if not for the bitterness of people, if not for sabotage and stratification of the Bolsheviks in 20, then perhaps there would be no repression.
                1. Paranoid50
                  Paranoid50 30 January 2018 00: 12
                  +6
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Life is such a complicated thing that it will not work to divide everyone into bandits and saints.

                  good yes
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Everything is connected.

                  Absolutely. The same moment with the final period of the USSR. Alas, it is. "It's hard to believe, but I must admit ..." I remember the Union from the second half of the 70s, then the 80s, to the end. Even at a children's level, that in everyday life, that
                  studying at school, it was felt that something in our life was changing. The cloudless kindergarten time, the primary-school October years, the pioneer enthusiasm of early youth ... and, now, the Komsomol has not happened. And, of their own free will, yeah. And there was a very good reason for what he then considered (and was in the yard of 1987). A chance meeting at the hotel "Baltic" with the head of the Komsomol of our school. Well, there’s no point in explaining the quality of it hanging around there ... It is clear that in my 15 years of age, I was not very capable of serious analytics, but I put down “twice two”. And, as a result, flatly refused to join the Komsomol, despite the fact that "the doors were open." And, believe me - I wanted a demolition built on deception, to the limit of a formalized system. And then the winds were already blown away by "fresh ones," yeah. And everyone or almost everyone wanted to change something. And, I’m sure that now those who deny this moment in relation to themselves are heartbroken. Unless, later, many came to the realization that they wanted NOT SO and NOT THAT. Yes, only the train has already left. And this is all to the fact that at any time there is and will be such that there is not only red (black) and white, and life is a lot of shades and halftones. The same Malevich - but not a single square.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 30 January 2018 09: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  In the 1991 year did not have? .

                  It’s written clearly, it wasn’t in 1937, it doesn’t get it right away, are you elderly? lol
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  . Or was, but changed the oath of the USSR? If a monarchist - why did he swear allegiance to the USSR, served the Bolsheviks? A faithful servant of the regime means. ))))
                  Or changed beliefs? At that moment, apparently, when the oath demanded to fulfill the duty, he sharply became a monarchist))))

                  Again rambling GRAVITY. request Boring you.
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  I believe that answering such stupid questions - humiliate the questioner.

                  Give the same stupid answer yes
                  Quote: Alex_59
                  Everything that happened is the resultant of many forces and aspirations

                  You, all the same, DALY him! yes lol
                  But direct and clear, NOT given. For as you do not answer, you embed yourself. Painfully? hi
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 30 January 2018 12: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    But direct and clear, NOT given.

                    Well, I'm sorry, I'm intellectually developed, and I think those who need the answer will understand. If you do not understand, this is not my problem. Stroybat, such a stroybat ...
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Give the same stupid answer

                    I am a descendant of the great Russian peasants of the Russian Empire and the Communist officers of the Red Army of the USSR, I do not give stupid answers. The honor of ancestors obliges, s.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    It’s written clearly, it wasn’t in 1937, it doesn’t get it right away, are you elderly?

                    But in 1991 you swore the oath. )))))) Little rascal!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 31 January 2018 07: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      Well, I'm sorry, I'm intellectually developed,

                      I do not apologize:: "intelligence" was not enough even for a simple answer
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      I am a descendant of the great Russian peasants of the Russian Empire and the communist officers of the Red Army of the USSR, not I give stupid answers. The honor of ancestors obliges, s.

                      Dali: see above.
                      Quote: Alex_59
                      But in 1991 you swore the oath. )))))) Little rascal!

                      belay fool lol
    3. svp67
      svp67 29 January 2018 12: 15
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      All three were shot, like traitors, American, Japanese. German spies and saboteurs.

      It was for what, by the standards of the "revolutionary struggle"
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 29 January 2018 12: 46
        +7
        Quote: svp67
        Quote: Olgovich
        All three are shot.

        It was for what, by the standards of the "revolutionary struggle"
        But today's young people may not know about the executions. But everyone knows perfectly well that in St. Petersburg, where the "PROSPECT BOLSHEVIKOV" metro station is located, there are Kollontai, Dybenko, Krylenko, ave. Red Commissars, st. Podvoisky, Antonov-Ovseenko, Telman, Evdokimov, Shotman, Narodnaya, Bolshevikov avenue itself, Tovarischesky avenue, Pyatiletok avenue, st. Voroshilov, John Reid, Latvian Riflemen, October Embankment. These names, the memory of the October Revolution, will not be changed NEVER! --- This is a relatively new area. The metro LOMONOSOVSKAYA and ELIZAROVSKAYA also have revolutionary names.
        1. Monarchist
          Monarchist 29 January 2018 17: 46
          +2
          Dima, I'm sorry, but some of these "individuals" are not worthy to be remembered, let alone name the streets. Krylenko and Dybenko, they fought against the tongue and suppress the Mozhicki riots. About how Dybenko sent both the revolution and everything in ... Yes, and about Krylenko it is not heard that he defended his homeland
          Colony and Telman are already other people
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 29 January 2018 19: 12
            +2
            Glory, why apologize? Everyone can have their own views. I’m embarrassed to say, I also didn’t know that they were shot. Although I like the new district, I like it and it’s convenient for work, if you can be there, the transportation with the whole city is convenient there. But I didn’t know about the details of the life of revolutionaries, although I’ve read names that were familiar from childhood. Earlier, once upon a time, probably in 2014 there was an article here about Dybenko and an armored train, and it was not written there. But, the names will remain, this attitude to them in the 70s of the last century, the area is huge, you can’t pay for everything. And I will read and learn biographies and tell you my opinion.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 29 January 2018 08: 17
    20
    SchA .. Kamenyuki will fly to the Bolsheviks ... Like, the army was bad and the brothers were killed and other, other ... What is typical, they will throw stones in their history in their childhood .. when their girls on February 23 as future defenders of the Fatherland congratulated and they were proud of it ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 29 January 2018 09: 34
      13
      I somehow didn’t even think that after the cooling of the Revolution in honor of the 100th anniversary, someone here would slander the Red Army in honor of the 100th anniversary. !!!!!
      That's interesting --- in the democratic abroad, what would it be for?
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 29 January 2018 09: 36
      18
      Quote: parusnik
      Scha .. Kamenyuki will fly to the Bolsheviks ... Type and the army was bad and killed the brothers and other, other ...

      This provocation is done on purpose to embroil people. In fact, people who are stubborn in the implacable denial of the Soviet period, or vice versa of the pre-revolutionary period, can be counted on the fingers. Most sane people will find advantages and benefits both before and after the revolution. Most people are ready to accept the story as it is, without dividing it, and not pouring mud on its separate periods. It is against such people that provocateurs act, trying to translate them into a radical channel. Separate people, polarize their points of view. In fact, this is an information war against modern Russia.

      Quote: parusnik
      What is characteristic, they will throw stones in their history in their childhood .. when their girls congratulated the future defenders of the Fatherland on 23 February and they were proud of it ...

      A typical situation. Most of these scavengers were fiery pioneers and Komsomol members. And some are party ones. And now it turns out all this sucks. Traitors at all times are traitors.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 29 January 2018 11: 13
        +9
        This provocation is done on purpose .... ???? Of course. Since the goal of the 1MB, namely the destruction of the Republic of Ingushetia, as the largest state, did not happen, the forces of imperialism tried to accomplish this task with the 2MB, then with the events of the 90s, destroying the USSR. Since the RF is still the largest state, the task remained.
      2. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 29 January 2018 17: 34
        +8
        Most sane people will find advantages and benefits both before and after the revolution. Most people are ready to accept the story as it is, without dividing it, and without spilling mud at its separate periods.

        Good words and many forum users in the ears.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 12: 11
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      Scha .. Kamenyuki will fly to the Bolsheviks ... Type and the army was bad and killed the brothers and other, other ..

      I’ll throw it first, and the “stone” is called the lost Soviet-Polish war.
    4. svp67
      svp67 29 January 2018 12: 17
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      Scha .. Kamenyuki fly to the Bolsheviks ...

      Do you think that it is unfair? Vyt djn d cnfnmt 'nf ahfpf gjyhfdbkfcm ^
      The Provisional Government, the February Revolutionaries finished off the imperial army through "democratization" and "liberalization."
      And where is the story of "Sovietization"? Why are they silent about the contribution of the Bolsheviks to the process of collapse? What, he was so small?
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 29 January 2018 12: 24
        +8
        Vyt djn d cnfnmt 'nf ahfpf gjyhfdbkfcm ^
        ..And what kind of folk art ...
        Do you think that it is unfair?
        ... Yes, it’s not fair, earlier, your hand didn’t rise ... to throw a stone in your history .. And now it’s rising .. Like Rus and the others .. Now you are all victims of the “totalitarian regime” ...
        And where is the story of "Sovietization"? Why are they silent about the contribution of the Bolsheviks to the process of collapse? What, he was so small?
        ..What do you mean..if about the soldiers' councils, then they were created in the army after February, after Order No. 1 ..
        1. svp67
          svp67 29 January 2018 13: 15
          +3
          Quote: parusnik
          And what kind of folk art ...

          You don’t understand anything ... and that’s all for everything ...:
          I’ve liked something in the article,
          ,,
          Quote: parusnik
          your hand didn’t rise ... to throw a stone in your history ..

          Wait, but what are you talking about? How did a hand easily rise to throw the same stone at the Socialist-Revolutionaries and the Provisional Government, and the Emperor, and you do not consider them OUR History?
          Quote: parusnik
          if it’s about soldier’s councils, then they were created in the army after February, after Order No. 1 ..

          And they, in your opinion, are "white and fluffy" on the issue of the collapse of the army, right?
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 29 January 2018 13: 34
            +8
            You don’t understand anything ... and that’s all for everything ...:
            ... But where can I get a syroma, to understand the "new nobles" .. Karud, your ford!
            Wait, but what are you talking about? How did a hand easily rise to throw the same stone at the Socialist-Revolutionaries and the Provisional Government, and the Emperor, and you do not consider them OUR History?
            ... Do not cast a shadow on the fence .. Our history is all. She had different periods with light and dark sides. But I had a completely different approach. You understood this, but you pretended not quite .. I’m talking about something else, You when you studied at the Soviet school, Soviet military school, why didn’t you throw stones at Soviet history .. Didn’t the monarchist slogans shout or long live the Constituent Assembly, down with the Supreme Soviet of the USSR? ... Then you started to do that. ..on a general wave your eyes opened ..
            And they, in your opinion, are "white and fluffy" on the issue of the collapse of the army, right?
            Who are they ? the Socialist-Revolutionary-Menshevik Petrograd Soviet which issued Order No. 1 ...? .. Yes, they are nice people, if you go through the first composition, some fought with the Soviet regime, in the sense with the bad Bolsheviks .. And the question is not the topic, are you a moderator at this provoke me a moment, then to ban?
            1. Gopnik
              Gopnik 29 January 2018 13: 43
              +3
              Quote: parusnik
              I’m talking about something else, when you studied at the Soviet school, the Soviet military school, why didn’t you throw "stones" into Soviet history .. Didn’t the monarchist slogans shout or long live the Constituent Assembly, down with the Supreme Soviet of the USSR? ... Then you began to do ... on a general wave your eyes opened.


              So that’s normal. In the USSR, if you do not remember, there was no freedom of speech. There was censorship and the guiding and guiding role of the party, with the suppression of unpleasant moments in Soviet history and an outright lie to pre-revolutionary Russia. Those. an objective and truthful picture was impossible to create. Then, de-no, for many, "eyes opened" and this is logical and normal.

              Quote: parusnik
              Who are they ? Socialist-Revolutionary-Menshevik Petrograd Soviet which issued Order No. 1 ...?.


              Actually, the Bolsheviks were at that moment in the Petrosoviet, if that. And the collapse of the army is not limited to "Order No. 1". By and large, there was nothing particularly terrible in this order, if everything were limited to them
            2. svp67
              svp67 29 January 2018 14: 40
              +1
              Quote: parusnik
              Karud, your ford!

              Well then, “Your High Honor,” it was such an appeal that corresponded to my true military rank
              Quote: parusnik
              When you studied at the Soviet school, the Soviet military school, why didn’t you throw the "stones" then ... into Soviet history ..

              What to hide. Well, firstly, there was not enough information, I had to take my word for it, although the "little worm of doubt" inherent in the young was. Then - it is fraught, for a career it was, and honestly speaking to me, even now the Soviet system does not seem so vicious, it demanded just modernization, and not complete destruction.
              Quote: parusnik
              This you then began to do ... on a general wave your eyes opened ..

              There is more information, as well as life experience, so YES. Eyes really "opened" and look at a lot now in a completely different way. By the way, I find a lot of the tactics of the Bolsheviks in the tactics of the current Ukrainian nationalists.
              Quote: parusnik
              Yes, they are nice people, if you go through the first line-up, some fought with the Soviet regime, in the sense with the bad Bolsheviks ..
              But the Soviets quickly became "pro-Bolshevik" and do not underestimate their role in the collapse of the army.
              Quote: parusnik
              And the question is not the topic, do you, as a moderator, provoke me at the moment, then what would you ban?

              Let us Here or forget these words of yours or the end of communication. Your choice. You are out of your mind, but why bother you? You certainly have the "Soviet syndrome" .... and "let them shoot me" ... Some kind of stupidity, you that violate the rules with your opinion? You know, the words are not mine, but I always considered them true: "" I do not share your convictions, but I am ready to die for your right to express them "Evelyn Hall"
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 14
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        And where is the story of "Sovietization"? Why are they silent about the contribution of the Bolsheviks to the process of collapse? What, he was so small?

        It was huge:: decrees “On the Equation of All Servicemen in Rights”, and the second - “On the Elective Beginning of the Organization of Power in the Army” The army was destroyed.
        And here is the preamble to the mentioned documents, which the author modestly did not mention:
        the preamble of the decree on the organization of the workers 'and peasants' Red Army, according to the new style, this is January 28, the 18th year.
        “The old army was an instrument of the class of oppression of the working people — the bourgeoisie. With the transfer of power to the working and exploited classes, the need arose to create a new army, which would be the stronghold of Soviet power in the present, the foundation to replace the standing army with popular weapons soon, supporting the upcoming socialist revolution in Europe».
        .
        And this is in war! fool
    5. albert
      albert 29 January 2018 20: 36
      +4
      The monarchists have already run up and ... in kommety. Absolutely this local sect has dirtied the site. As soon as an article about the USSR appears, they rush and begin to hysteria negative
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 29 January 2018 21: 01
        +2
        Quote: albert
        Monarchists have already run

        Not monarchists, but monarchists, and secondly monarchists on the site at least, or for you monarchists are all those who somehow do not support socialist ideology?
        Quote: albert
        and with .. in the comments.

        What are they doing?
        Quote: albert
        Absolutely this local sect has dirtied the site.

        Do you understand the concept of a sect? And why local? Here, if there is a sect, it’s a sect of idolaters, or rather, a Stalinist sect.
        1. albert
          albert 30 January 2018 21: 23
          +2
          Quote: RUSS
          Not Monarchists, but Monarchists

          Find out in Google what monorchism is. laughing
      2. Nikitin
        Nikitin 30 January 2018 15: 30
        +1
        Quote: albert
        s ...

        Quote: albert
        dirtied.

        And who the crap?
  3. BAI
    BAI 29 January 2018 09: 44
    14
    You can chill down the Red Army as much as you like, but any army is created with one goal - to win. One way or another, but the Red Army defeated all its right, smart, educated, ideologically seasoned, with "impeccable officer honor" opponents. In war, the final result is important - victory. Everything else (unfortunately, human lives) is secondary.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 14: 24
      +5
      Quote: BAI
      . In war, the final result is important - victory. Everything else (unfortunately, human lives) is secondary.

      This is what the Bolsheviks did not stop at anything, did not hesitate to take hostages, food surplus intelligence, forced mobilization, punitive detachments were created from foreigners and Gentiles, etc.
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 43
        +4
        It’s absolutely true. And it’s called flexible tactics in the conditions of an irreconcilable civil war. And it’s just that kind of economic tactics (surplus development, military communism, NEP) that led the Soviet government to VICTORY,
  4. Evgenijus
    Evgenijus 29 January 2018 10: 28
    +9
    From the text of the article:
    The first test of the Red Army took place near Narva and Pskov, it entered into battle with the German troops and gave them a rebuff. Thus, 23 February was the birthday of the young Red Army.

    What is my doubt in this statement.
    But this point of view is interesting to you:
    To capture Pskov, which was the center of the entire Northern Front, the German command moved 5 regiments (4 infantry and 1 cavalry) and artillery units. These troops advanced to Pskov along railways and highways from the south of the Island and the south-west of Valka. Directly for the capture of Pskov were flying volatile detachments of the 53 of the German corps of Army Group "D". Taking 21 in February Rezhitsa and adjusting the composition captured in Dvinsk, which was supplied with armored sandbags with gun platforms (which is why it appears in Soviet literature as an “armored train”) - the Germans moved to Pskov with the support of armored cars. B.Pozern, a member of the Northern Front control troops, noted the extremely small number of Germans advancing on Pskov: “According to the information, they are almost rotated, although their advantage is that they have artillery and cavalry. It seems to be in a small amount. ”
    21 February Pskov was declared under siege. There were a large number of soldiers in the city, since the city itself was covering (running from Dvinsk and Riga) the 12-I Russian army, and then, in the area of ​​the Island, there was the 1-I army. However, in view of their complete lack of capacity, they were ordered to retreat to the districts of Novgorod, Luga and Staraya Russa, and the soldiers hurriedly left the city along the highway to Luga.
    The city was defended by a company of Pskov Red Guards and 100 recruits conscripts under the command of the Chief of the Emergency Military Headquarters of the Black Front for the Northern Front, as well as those arriving from Riga: two companies and the machine gun crew of the 2 of the Riga Latvian Regiment under the command. Yu. Yu. Aploka, a partisan detachment of volunteer soldiers of the 20 Siberian Regiment under the command of sergeant Major I. M. Lyashkevich, Red Guard detachments formed in Valka, some of the members of the Executive The Joint Committee of the Joint Council of Latvian Riflemen and the Executive Committee of the Council of Soldiers' Deputies (Iskosol) of the 12 Army of the Northern Front and the 2 of the Red Army Regiment under the command of former staff captain A.I. Cherepanov, staffed by volunteer soldiers of the 12 Army .
    23 February 1918, the red parts were on the distant approaches to Pskov. Around hours 21 Pozerne reported to Petrograd: “The Germans are in 25 versts from Pskov and armored cars go by road and by train. Obviously, they will be in Pskov in a few hours. ” According to the memoirs of Cherepanov, in the evening of February 23 his regiment on the line of the rivers Cherekha-Mnogo (10-15 km from the city), entered into a clash with the Germans advancing along the railway, and managed to stop them briefly. However, the truthfulness of Cherepanov’s memories is questioned, Cherepanov was forced to adapt to the official version of events, and she linked the real battle on Cherekha with the date of February 23 and insisted on the victory of the Red Army men. According to historian A. Mikhailov, the battle on the Cherekha River took place during February 24. Further, according to Cherepanov’s memoirs, his regiment was overtaken by the Germans and February 24 retreated to the outskirts of Pskov, covering the highway to the Meadow, which the 12 Army soldiers continued to flee: “ from their position it was clearly visible how the endless line of wagons and demoralized units of the old army moved from Pskov to the east. ” In Pskov, the situation was complicated by the pogroms that began on February 24: “In the morning of February 24, the voltage reached its highest size. The looting began, which with difficulty stopped. On the market (now Soviet) Square Deputy. The chairman of the Council, Kleyneshechert, seconded to stop the looting, was killed by a group of pogrom-minded soldiers. The corpse lay in the square, people were rushing indifferently past him in different directions. ” Then the Germans, taking advantage of the chaos reigning, turned around the right flank of the Pskov Red Guards by country roads and seized the Pskov-18 station in 1 hours. At the same time, they were met by fierce machine-gun fire of Latvians who tried to counterattack, but in the end were broken by the pressure of the Germans. After that, the 2 regiment and the Latvians were ordered to retreat. For some time the remaining small groups of Red Guards in various places fired machine guns at the Germans, covering the retreat. In a summary of the German rate, which was signed by General Ludendorff, it was reported: “South of Pskov, our troops stumbled upon strong resistance. In a fierce battle, they defeated the enemy, the city was taken. "
    At the same time, February 24, near 10 hours of the evening, the Pskov Red Guards retreating to the Sands blew up the pyroxylin warehouse located near the station, just at the moment when the German battalion entered it, and thus destroyed the 270 of the German army (30 officers, 34 unter officer and 206 soldier). The German command admitted that as a result of this explosion more soldiers and officers were lost than during the entire 250-kilometer offensive against Pskov. Shortly after the occupation of Pskov, the Germans executed the 140 prisoners of the Red Guards, the Bolsheviks, and Soviet officials. 26 February Pozerne reported to Petrograd about the capture of Pskov: “The city was taken by small German forces. Our misfortune is in the lack of preparation, as well as in the fact that no orders can change the prepared mood — not to continue the war. ”
    Having occupied Pskov, the German troops 25 of February stopped the offensive in this direction and then sent only reconnaissance patrols from Pskov. 26 February Pozern reported: “I don’t have exact information about the present position of the Germans. The first station from Pskov-Toroshino-still with us. This is 20 versts from Pskov. ” Pozerne asked for reinforcements, and Kostashevsky, the secretary of the military commissar, Kostashevsky replied: “We are hastily forming the Red Guard units and sending them to the front. In the direction of Pskov we will be moved by a detachment of Pekhlevanov, with whom you will establish a connection. ” The Soviet operational report for 27 — 28 of February said that “the Germans did not withdraw from Pskov for the purpose of offensive operations ... the advance of the Germans from Pskov was not noticed, despite the tempting possibility of capturing our artillery and transports following the Pskov highway to Housewarming”
    1. igordok
      igordok 29 January 2018 11: 31
      +7
      On the market (now Soviet) square deputy. The chairman of the Council, Kleineshehert, who was sent to stop the robberies, was killed by a group of pogrom-minded soldiers.

      Now Lenin Square
      At the same time, on February 24, around 10 o'clock in the evening, the Pskov Red Guards retreating to the Sands blew up the pyroxylin warehouse located near the station, just at the moment when the German battalion entered it, and thus destroyed 270 German troops (30 officers Officer and 34 soldiers).

      Not a warehouse, but railway composition. According to various sources, either with pyroxylin, or with artillery shells.

      A real, not pompous, monument dedicated to the first battles of the Red Army in Pskov. Until recently, it was "gnawed" by the "metalists" in the 90s. Now the tablet has been re-created.
      1. Evgenijus
        Evgenijus 29 January 2018 12: 24
        +4
        It is interesting to learn the text of the tablet ...
        1. igordok
          igordok 29 January 2018 15: 17
          +4
          Quote: Evgenijus
          It is interesting to learn the text of the tablet ...

          Not long ago I found in RuNet a photo with old text. And he photographed the monument with a new text. But I’ve been sitting for two hours, I can’t find these saved photos. According to the law of meanness, I will find when it will no longer be necessary.
          The new text is not yet in the picture, a monument on the other edge of the city.
          1. Evgenijus
            Evgenijus 29 January 2018 17: 09
            +3
            On monuments, sometimes, because of ignorance of history, they write what you think - did the authors of the tablets go to school? He himself recently saw an inscription on a pedestal on which the tank stands.
            It is written - the participant of military operations in the Second World War. And the tank itself began to be released only after the war. I wrote to the city administration, they say to me - thanks for the truth, but the blame was laid on the draft board. It is about the EC-3. The first car left the assembly line in May 1945g.
            But the rallies at the tank on Victory Day go with a bang ...
    2. Gopnik
      Gopnik 29 January 2018 13: 04
      +6
      Hmm, shameful ... They could only fight with their own people, and even from all Poles and Balts with Finns, the Lyuli received and signed one shameful world after another.
      1. igordok
        igordok 29 January 2018 15: 11
        +7
        Quote: Gopnik
        Hmm, shameful ... They could only fight with their own people

        I did not understand your skepticism. Avoiding a numerically superior enemy, especially in artillery, is normal. And near Pskov, the Germans got lyule that they could not move on.
        And here, for example, as the local Pskov bourgeoisie met their “liberators”.
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 55
          +6
          What do you want from such people? If they are the Brest Peace. Russia that has been saved as a state on the world map is considered a betrayal.
        2. Gopnik
          Gopnik 30 January 2018 00: 55
          +3
          The Germans did not get Lyuli near Pskov, unfortunately. fantasy. The Germans were stopped by the surrender of the Bolsheviks. And to drape from the Germans for the Bolsheviks is yes, the norm.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 21
        +5
        Quote: Gopnik
        received and signed one shameful world after another.

        Yes, they are silent about a LOT of Brest worlds -with Germany, Estonia, Poland, Finland, Latvia..
        And from all paid off, except for the territories, also with gold.
        Adolf Joffe, a working millionaire peasant lol Russian lol a communist, diplomat (who had never worked before) signaled a lot of them.
        ESTONIAN GOVERNMENT EVERY YEAR place candles on the grave for Adolfushka, as a sign of GRATITUDE from the Estonian people
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 29 January 2018 18: 10
          +8
          Olgovich. And you perceive history as a set of bare facts. For you there is no cause or effect.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 January 2018 09: 22
            +2
            Quote: Seeker
            Olgovich. And you perceive history as a set of bare facts. For you there is no cause or effect.

            There is a reason - betrayal of the Brest worlds, there is a consequence - today's western border of Russia, hi
        2. BAI
          BAI 29 January 2018 20: 54
          +3
          Politics is the art of compromise. Yes, territories were handed over in Brest in order for the state to survive. But at 39 they all returned.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 30 January 2018 00: 56
            +3
            Nobody encroached on the state - they gave everything they demanded. And in 1939 they did not return. Humble yourself.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 January 2018 09: 24
            +2
            Quote: BAI
            Politics is the art of compromise. Yes, they surrendered territories across Brest in order to survive state.

            Read Stalin on Brest: saved POWER, not a state.
    3. Looking for
      Looking for 29 January 2018 17: 51
      +3
      In general, the expression "In the Soviet operational ...." is somehow more suitable for documents drawn up 30–40 years before the events described, but not for a document dated 1918.
  5. Altona
    Altona 29 January 2018 11: 45
    +7
    Quote: Olgovich
    Failure, not insolvency: no one wanted to fight in a civil war, they had to take people by force.

    -------------------------------
    Olgovich, no one disputes the fact that the "strongest" is the Romanian army, which reached Hitler with Stalingrad and Stalin with Berlin. laughing laughing But seriously, they "did not want to fight" from the word at all. On the imperialist war 4 years. And with the collapse of the empire, a huge mass of people with weapons, mostly unprincipled, spread around the country. And note, it was not Lenin who armed her, but just the same tsar-father. In general, the same thing happened that after the collapse of the USSR, it was only bloodier. And 100 thousand Bolsheviks had to stop this anarchy plus a foreign invasion, because it also began in 1918. And how to “not want to fight,” if the interventionists, whites and separatists simply massacred the Russian people?
    1. Evgenijus
      Evgenijus 29 January 2018 13: 20
      +3
      Altona:
      Lenin did not arm it, but just the king-father.

      Just watered technology. All upside down to put. And on the front, do you offer soldiers to sit in trenches only with kettles for porridge? What does the king? If there is a war, so what should be in the hands of a soldier? Yes, the soldiers fought, but who began to crush this army? Who created these idiotic soldiers' committees? Who started shooting officers?
      Zadla this Bolshevik propaganda and now (all consider the people in Russia "Nemtsov's penguins?") ...
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 26
      +2
      Quote: Altona
      And 100 thousand Bolsheviks have were stopping this anarchy

      Right slaves in the galleys! lol NOBODY instructed them ANYTHING and did NOT choose ANYWHERE.
      Quote: Altona
      And how to “not want to fight,” if the interventionists, whites and separatists simply massacred the Russian people?

      Do you hear yourself? So, they’re “tired” of fighting against the invaders, and hunting is their own?
      The choice of the people in the Constitutional Council had to be respected, and not to impose a handful of opinions on the majority.
      And there would be NOTHING — no war, no intervention.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 02: 28
        +5
        Quote: Olgovich
        The choice of the people in the Constitutional Council had to be respected, and not to impose a handful of opinions on the majority.

        How much can you repeat the same thing? Constituent assembly, constituent assembly ... Already tired of answering you. Nobody needed it, even Kolchak could not stand their chatter, took and shot those who had nailed to him, and the White supporters didn’t bother anything about this. And the Bolsheviks only asked to vacate the building, and there was enough cry for 100 years.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 30 January 2018 09: 30
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Green
          How much can you repeat the same thing? Constituent assembly, constituent assembly ... Already tired of answering you

          Yes, I'm NOT talking to you.
          Quote: Alexander Green
          No one needed it

          Who cares about your opinion of a bankrupt forever losing? request
          Quote: Alexander Green
          even Kolchak could not stand their chatter, took and shot those who nailed to him,

          Are you talking nonsense, how much can you? Have you tried to read?
          Quote: Alexander Green
          And the Bolsheviks only asked to vacate the building, and a cry for 100 years was enough.

          And the bandits just free your wallet. And shout, probably for a long time, right? lol
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 20: 16
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            And the bandits just free your wallet. And shout, probably for a long time, right?

            To the doctor, our respected "editorial", urgently to the doctor ... I remind you that you have lost the reality of perceiving events.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 31 January 2018 08: 45
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              To the doctor, our respected "editorial", urgently to the doctor ..., I remind you you have lost the reality of perceiving events.

              Lovely people, if you don’t know: lunatics consider themselves to be the healthiest people, and the rest, in their opinion, should be treated.
              Reflect: You give too much advice on treatment. hi
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 01: 27
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                Think: You give too many treatment tips

                I take care of you poor, otherwise you will die inadvertently, and your fellow thinkers will say that you have become a victim of Stalinism.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 1 February 2018 09: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  I take care of you poor

                  Didn’t get it? I repeat: crazy people consider themselves to be the healthiest people, and the rest, in their opinion, should be treated.
                  Think: You give too many treatment tips hi
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 1 February 2018 21: 01
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You give too much treatment advice

                    I’m saying that I’m not the only one who gives you such advice. Moreover, you have already begun hallucinations - "dead with braids" - this is serious!
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 15: 53
      +3
      Quote: Altona
      . And 100 thousand Bolsheviks had to stop this anarchy plus a foreign invasion, because it also began in 1918. And how to “not want to fight,” if the interventionists, whites and separatists simply massacred the Russian people?

      Name at least one battle between the interventionists and the red army.
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 29 January 2018 18: 13
        +4
        Refer to the history of hostilities in the Baltic and the Caspian.
    4. Evgenijus
      Evgenijus 29 January 2018 17: 56
      +3
      Altona:
      ... if the invaders, whites and separatists simply cut out the Russian people?

      Russian people began to cut out after the creation of the SNK, and on his orders - the Cheka. Red terror against whom was directed? Against the Russian people. And who took most of the seats in SNK? That's right, but not Russian. And who officially and by his government decree began the red terror?
      We do not need to hang noodles on the ears.
  6. kalibr
    kalibr 29 January 2018 11: 50
    +3
    Quote: avva2012
    until the establishment of the will of the people through the Constituent Assembly. ”

    It was overclocked, it seems ...
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 29 January 2018 15: 53
      +4
      It gave itself to disperse. If they scratched their tongues less, then the story would have turned in a different way. And in my opinion, do not blame the Bolsheviks. Are they supposed to give power to these rappers? So it would be, as with KOMUCH, only throughout Russia.
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 29 January 2018 11: 52
    +5
    Quote: BAI
    In war, the final result is important - victory. Everything else (unfortunately, human lives) is secondary.

    Correctly! What flag flies at the Kremlin today? Who won in the end?
    1. BAI
      BAI 29 January 2018 14: 02
      +3
      But the Red Army is not. And her legal successor - CA, is not there either. And the fact that the state has collapsed from within the army is not to blame, this is a question for the market democrats. And what kind of war for the RSFSR (USSR) did the Red Army (SA) lose?
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 29 January 2018 14: 24
        +2
        Soviet-Polish, for example.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 29 January 2018 15: 28
          +3
          Quote: Gopnik
          Soviet-Polish, for example.

          Soviet-German, Soviet-Estonian, Soviet-Latvian, Soviet-Finnish
          1. Looking for
            Looking for 29 January 2018 18: 24
            +1
            See my answer to your “like-minded” gopnik.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 30 January 2018 09: 36
              +2
              Quote: Seeker
              Look mine answer to your "like-minded" gopnik.

              WHERE to look for him, WHERE ?! belay laughing
        2. Looking for
          Looking for 29 January 2018 18: 22
          +2
          Remember, gopnik, de jure, any lost war ends in surrender. The war ended in a “draw” of peace treaties.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 30 January 2018 00: 58
            +3
            You are wrong, not all lost wars end in surrender. This time. And do not you teach me, these are two ..
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 29 January 2018 15: 24
        +3
        Quote: BAI
        what war for the RSFSR (USSR) did the Red Army (SA) lose?

        The Red Army lost the Soviet-Polish war.
        The Red Army lost the Soviet-Lithuanian war.
        The results of the first two Soviet-Finnish wars are not clear. In the “third” Finnish war of 1939, the Finns were defeated with difficulty, by the way the USSR was kicked out of the League of Nations as an aggressor.
        1. Monarchist
          Monarchist 29 January 2018 17: 29
          +2
          RUSS, let’s be fair: the Red Army defeated the Wehrmacht, and until June 1941, "in passing" he visited ** people: Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland, paddles and some others
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 29 January 2018 18: 12
            +2
            Quote: Monarchist
            RUSS, let’s be fair: the Red Army defeated the Wehrmacht, and until June 1941, "in passing" he visited ** people: Poland, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland, paddles and some others

            The question was asked - “to whom the Red Army lost”, I gave an answer, and the Great Victory of 1945 is a topic for another conversation.
      3. BAI
        BAI 29 January 2018 16: 20
        +1
        And since when have all the listed wars become wars for the territory of the RSFSR (USSR)?
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 29 January 2018 17: 06
          +3
          Some kind of strange question. And you read the territorial losses resulting from these wars, and you will understand.
      4. captain
        captain 29 January 2018 17: 13
        +3
        Quote: BAI
        But the Red Army is not. And her legal successor - CA, is not there either. And the fact that the state has collapsed from within the army is not to blame, this is a question for the market democrats. And what kind of war for the RSFSR (USSR) did the Red Army (SA) lose?

        This is a question for the Communists Leninists. It seems like Gorbachev, Shevarnadze, Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Yakovlev, etc. your accomplices. By the way, Gaidar, I remind you of the red-flag, editor of the journal "Communist".
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 29 January 2018 21: 32
          +3
          Quote: captain
          This is a question for the Communists Leninists. It seems like Gorbachev, Shevarnadze, Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Yakovlev, etc. your accomplices. By the way, Gaidar, I remind you of the red-flag, editor of the journal "Communist".

          Our homegrown oligarchs are all former Komsomol members, for example Mikhail Khodorkovsky - Deputy Secretary of the Frunze District Committee of the Komsomol of Moscow (1986–1987), Director of the Center for Scientific and Technical Creativity of Youth (1987–1989). Chairman of the Board of NK Yukos.
          Chicken Entrepreneur Sergey Lisovsky From 1984 to 1987, he was at the Komsomol job: Secretary of the Komsomol Committee of the SSPTU No. 191 and the Start Plant, instructor of the propaganda and agitation department of the Baumansky District Komsomol Committee in Moscow.

          Well, etc. laughing
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 29 January 2018 14: 14
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      Correctly! What flag flies at the Kremlin today? Who won in the end?
      Like you, Vyacheslav wrote in his famous article ----- the flag of the White Guard armored train !!!!!!
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 30 January 2018 02: 32
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      What flag flies at the Kremlin today? Who won in the end?

      It’s not yet evening, life goes on, all paths lead to communism.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  8. RUSS
    RUSS 29 January 2018 12: 05
    +3
    The author attached some ridiculous picture to the article, either the flag that did not exist even once, the semblance of a banner .... ???
    You could attach a star to the article with a plow and a hammer, one of the first symbols of the Red Army, and even more so, the slogan in the picture is “for our Soviet homeland” from the time of the Second World War, and not from the first days of the formation of the spacecraft.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 12: 13
      +4
      Found laughing !!!
      Samsonov copied the picture from Wikipedia, which means that the devil climbs into this encyclopedia not beloved by the patriots.
  9. bober1982
    bober1982 29 January 2018 12: 15
    +5
    The dispute is meaningless, such a medal would be gladly received by anyone who was related to the army, even if he was an inveterate and convinced crystal baker.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 12: 51
      0
      Quote: bober1982
      The dispute is meaningless, such a medal would be gladly received by anyone who was related to the army, even if he was an inveterate and convinced crystal baker.

      What is this icon?
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 29 January 2018 13: 00
        +1
        Anniversary medal
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 29 January 2018 13: 55
          0
          Quote: bober1982
          Anniversary medal

          Not official?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 29 January 2018 14: 11
            0
            I don’t know, now you’ll get confused in the medals and don’t understand anything, you can probably reward yourself.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 29 January 2018 14: 26
              0
              Quote: bober1982
              I don’t know, now you’ll get confused in the medals and don’t understand anything, you can probably reward yourself.

              I went to one of the sites with the high-profile name "Voentorg" https://voenpro.ru so there of these anniversary awards dedicated to the centenary of the Red Army - dozens of species laughing
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 29 January 2018 14: 35
                +2
                I’m saying that you can reward yourself, your whole chest will be in medals.
  10. Doliva63
    Doliva63 29 January 2018 15: 03
    10
    There will be a reason to drink pretty much. "And from the taiga to the British seas, the Red Army is all the strongest!" . Axiom.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 29 January 2018 15: 57
      +7
      drinks So let Red squeeze imperiously
      Your bayonet with a calloused hand
      And we must all uncontrollably
      Go to the last mortal battle.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 29 January 2018 16: 14
        +8
        Mandatory. According to the oath.
        And from myself I’ll add:
        ... And when the last thunders fireworks,
        There is a soft bell ringing.
        And maybe there, in heaven
        The wiped gold of your epaulettes ... drinks
      2. captain
        captain 29 January 2018 17: 16
        +2
        Quote: avva2012
        drinks So let Red squeeze imperiously
        Your bayonet with a calloused hand
        And we must all uncontrollably
        Go to the last mortal battle.

        Well, soldiers were sent to a mortal battle. Trotsky did not go there with his company.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 29 January 2018 17: 33
          +8
          Figlyar (this is about a nickname, but, perhaps, in essence), but Denikin, for example, walked around? Did he go? No? ordinary.
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 29 January 2018 18: 45
          +5
          Well, who else is walking? Soldier, yes platoon. If absolutely Khan, then the company. And then already, they should not go. Otherwise, the soldiers will lie in vain if their bosses are headless. First, figuratively, and then literally.
  11. Monarchist
    Monarchist 29 January 2018 18: 08
    +1
    Myths and cliches is a great thing: they told us that on February 23 the young Red Army, etc., and if you look in the archive ....
    In the early nineties, we published radical communist newspapers: "Kuban Lesnaya", "Lightning" and some other options (comrade Parusnik confirm) and there I read that the date of February 23 was chosen purely by chance. The first time on February 23 was even called: “Red Gift Day.” On February 23, the then People’s Commissar for Labor Trotsky appealed: the young army needs your help so that the townsfolk collect parcels of the Red Army.
  12. sergo1914
    sergo1914 29 January 2018 19: 09
    +7
    Article about the Red Army (Red, Karl). On the occasion of the anniversary. It would seem worthwhile to congratulate people related to this organization. The army, which swept out of the country at first numerous interventionists with their henchmen. And then she destroyed the strongest army of the continent (well, the world at the same time). Put a victory point in Berlin in 1945. For several decades it was the guarantor of peace and security of the country. But no. Flew like some "insects" on a certain substance. And with foam at the mouth they prove to us that everything was bad. Why are you getting into this topic?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 20: 06
      +2
      Quote: sergo1914
      Why are you getting into this topic?

      Well, you climbed too, could not keep silent? The forum exists for disputes and disputes, each has its own point of view on each historical event. The formation of the Red Army was difficult and ambiguous, and we are talking about this, but we will talk about the great merits of the Red Army and Victory closer to May 9th.
  13. Curious
    Curious 29 January 2018 21: 19
    +5
    Now the time has come! It is impossible to discuss any question of the history of the USSR calmly. Sickle and hammer attracts site scavengers - hyenas, African marabou, American vultures, grave-bugs, Romanian endemic and other speckled ground squirrels. The discussion instantly turns into srach.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 29 January 2018 21: 36
      +1
      Quote: Curious
      Now the time has come! It is impossible to discuss any question of the history of the USSR calmly.

      So it’s interesting, truth is born in a dispute! laughing Or that the forum only odes to sing to Stalin?
      Quote: Curious
      scavenger scavengers - hyenas,

      A hyena is not a scavenger, but a flock predator, well this is an excursion into zoology wassat for reference
      Quote: Curious
      romanian endemic

      And this, what kind of beast is this? Are vampires really? am
      1. Curious
        Curious 29 January 2018 21: 42
        +3
        About zoology - work out at your leisure. In 1987, more than four thousand hippos died from anthrax in Luangwe. All of them were eaten by hyenas, thereby stopping the spread of infection. There are no lying skeletons or horned skulls of fallen antelopes in the African savannah (as, for example, in Central Asia): all hyenas “sweep” them. Their stomach holds up to 15 kilograms of meat, bones, and any organics at all. All this is perfectly digested, maximum nutrients are extracted.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 29 January 2018 21: 57
          +1
          Quote: Curious
          About zoology - work out at your leisure

          You are behind the times laughing
          More recently, hyenas were considered scavengers, but many observations have found that in 90% of cases hyenas kill the intended victim. During the hunt, hyenas reach speeds of up to 65 km / h and keep it up to 5 km, which makes them one of the most successful hunters in Africa, unlike lions, in which only 10 out of 5 hunts are successful. Hyenas can catch and eat almost any animal - from small antelopes to buffaloes and young giraffes.
          So what so! hi
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 29 January 2018 21: 58
            +1
            I will add about scavengers, lions and wolves and so on do not shun it ....
          2. Curious
            Curious 29 January 2018 21: 59
            +2
            "Hyenas can catch and eat almost any animal - from small antelopes to buffaloes and young giraffes."
            Here they really can eat everything. Have you seen a hyena outside the zoo?
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 29 January 2018 22: 11
              +1
              Quote: Curious
              "Hyenas can catch and eat almost any animal - from small antelopes to buffaloes and young giraffes."
              Here they really can eat everything. Have you seen a hyena outside the zoo?

              What are you talking about? I recommend watching the hyena hunt on YouTube, you will be surprised that, despite your appearance of the hyena, dangerous predators.
              I also recommend TV channels: Zoo TV, Nat geo wild, Animal Planet, etc.
              You probably still see "In the world of animals"? laughing
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 29 January 2018 22: 13
                +3
                Victor, I propose to end the flood about the representatives of the animal world, otherwise we clog the ether with these "hyenas".
                1. Curious
                  Curious 29 January 2018 22: 39
                  +1
                  "What are you talking about? I recommend watching the hyena hunt on YouTube, you will be surprised that, despite your appearance of the hyena, dangerous predators.
                  I also recommend TV channels: Zoo TV, Nat geo wild, Animal Planet, etc.
                  You probably still see "In the world of animals"? "

                  Clear. You are a couch zoologist.
                  I've seen enough of them in Africa. So I need your TV.
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 30 January 2018 07: 20
                    0
                    Quote: Curious
                    Clear. You are a couch zoologist.

                    As you wish.
                    Quote: Curious
                    I've seen enough of them in Africa. So I need your TV.

                    It’s hard to believe that you were in Africa, but let’s leave it on your conscience.
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 30 January 2018 09: 31
                      +2
                      And what do you see the difficulty? Do you think that Africa can only be seen on TV, and there are only migratory birds and Aibolites there? Many people go there, some on vacation, some on work. There, besides hyenas, there are factories, mines and even railways. So if you want, feel free to go. Only vaccinations are desirable. Which - they know in the hospital.
  14. brn521
    brn521 30 January 2018 17: 12
    +2
    Quote: Nikitin-
    War and judicial executions are two different things.

    Well, that's about it. There were judicial executions. Then the court decisions were canceled, on the basis of which executions were carried out - this is rehabilitation. At the same time, no proceedings were instituted against those whose fault these executions were initiated and carried out. Thus, there are corpses, but there are no criminals. Everything is attributed to the cult of personality and the political war arranged thanks to it. Hence the answer to the question
    Quote: Olgovich
    Who are the criminals: those who are shot or shot?
    - next. Neither of them were criminals.
  15. Gopnik
    Gopnik 30 January 2018 20: 02
    +1
    Hantengri,
    And from what bin should Olgovich post something to someone ten times? If a person is stupid, then this is his problem, not Olgovich’s
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 31 January 2018 03: 27
      +2
      This, are you talking about the problems of Olgovich? Well, well, in an adult way!
  16. RUSS
    RUSS 31 January 2018 19: 34
    +1
    Today, the fate of the great Soviet army, which defeated the Nazis and opposed the United States in the Cold War, and then took and disappeared with the collapse of the USSR, is regrettable, says military expert Xu Yan in his article in the Global Times. According to the analyst, despite all the brilliant achievements, the Soviet party and military leadership forgot the goals with which the Red Army was created.
    100 years ago, on January 28, 1918, the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR adopted a decree on the creation of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army, which over the next years of its existence turned into "a model of revolutionary struggle for the distressed Chinese people, as well as numerous oppressed peoples of the world," writes in his An article for the Global Times by Xu Yan, professor of the National Defense Academy of the National Liberation Army of China.

    However, in 1991, due to internal political chaos, "the heroic Armed Forces of the USSR, which prevailed over Nazism and opposed the United States in the Cold War," ceased to exist. This was a big disappointment for the Chinese and many other people around the world, the author comments.

    Xu Yan recalls that, like many of his compatriots who were born and raised after the founding of the People’s Republic of China and the Communist Party came to power in 1949, he developed very conflicting feelings for the USSR and the Red Army. At first, they presented a role model for the Chinese, but then, with the change of ideology, the people of the PRC realized that “hegemonic behavior” was characteristic of Soviet troops.

    So, many Chinese have the most brilliant memories of the Red Army intertwined with the darkest. But so far, in memory of the help of the Soviet military in liberating the Chinese land from Japanese occupation on holidays, many residents of the PRC bring flowers to the monuments to the soldiers of the Red Army. No matter how the West tries to belittle the merits of the Soviet troops, it was they who made the biggest contribution to the struggle against the Nazis and suffered the greatest losses in the Second World War.

    According to the author of the article, when thinking about the Red Army and the Soviet armed forces, one question inevitably arises: why did these impressive troops with their glorious history did nothing at the time of the collapse of the USSR. Of course, among the reasons one can single out both Western influence and leadership mistakes - a lot of things, but most importantly - the Soviet army at the end of its existence rejected the ideas and ideals with which it was created, the ideas of the October Revolution. This once powerful force "fell apart from within."

    The main goal of creating the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army was the communist struggle against imperialism, feudalism, oppression and support for national liberation movements. It was in the Red Army for the first time in the world that the principles of equality, democratic governance, ideological and political work were established, the difference between officers and soldiers was almost leveled.

    However, historical memory is a thing that is difficult to get away from. Therefore, later, even under Stalinism, which launched the development of heavy industry and the economy, both the bureaucracy and the abuse of power characteristic of tsarist times returned to the state system. The ensuing strengthening of differentiation in the army only more strongly led it away from the ideals of the October Revolution: the soldiers experienced all hardships, while the high command received dachas, high salaries, and other rewards.

    After the war in 1946, the Red Army was renamed the Armed Forces of the USSR, the exclusive rights of senior management were secured. So, an ordinary soldier received a salary of 20 rubles a month, while the marshal was paid 2 thousand plus numerous state-owned cars, apartments, etc. - a “mockery” of the socialist ideals that the Soviet Union proclaimed. Against this background, all the “ideological and educational work” in the army could be perceived only as “empty allegations,” says a Chinese analyst.

    By the end of the 80s with the beginning of the policy of "new thinking" and privatization, chaos swept the army. Many senior military officials rushed to sell weapons on the black market, corruption flourished. With the collapse of the USSR, only sad memories remained of the greatness and glory of the Red Army. The party and military leadership itself destroyed the once great structure.

    Nevertheless, 100 years after the Great October Socialist Revolution and the creation of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army, they are not forgotten, although the Soviet Union has long been gone. China needs to carefully study the lesson of the USSR and its army. Once they served the Chinese as a role model, but then they turned into a warning about how important it is to not forget about their initial goals, Xu Yan concludes.