Military Review

How to create a volunteer army

292
100 years ago, 7 January 1918, the Volunteer Army was created in Novocherkassk to fight the Bolsheviks. Smoot in Russia was gaining momentum. Red, white, nationalists formed their troops, with might and main hosted various gangs. The West was preparing to dismember the murdered Russian Empire.


The army received the official name Volunteer. This decision was made at the suggestion of General Lavr Kornilov, who became its first commander in chief. Political and financial leadership was assigned to General Mikhail Alekseev. The army headquarters was headed by General Alexander Lukomsky. The official appeal of the headquarters, published two days later, said: “The first immediate goal of the Volunteer Army is to resist an armed attack in the south and south-east of Russia. Hand in hand with valiant Cossacks, at the first call of his Circle, his government and military ataman, in alliance with the regions and peoples of Russia who rebelled against the German-Bolshevik yoke, all Russian people gathered in the south from all parts of our Motherland will defend to the last drop of blood, the independence of the areas that gave them shelter and is the last stronghold of Russian independence. ” At the first stage, about 3 thousand people enrolled in the Volunteer Army, more than half of them were officers.

Of stories

Under the conditions of complete disintegration of the old army, General Mikhail Alekseev decided to try to form new units outside the composition of the former army on a voluntary basis. Alekseev was the largest military figure of Russia: during the Russian-Japanese war, the quartermaster general of the 3-th Manchurian army; during the First World War - Chief of Staff of the armies of the South-Western Front, Commander-in-Chief of the armies of the North-Western Front, Chief of Staff of the Supreme Commander. During the February Revolution, 1917 advocated the abdication of Nicholas II from the throne, and through his actions contributed greatly to the fall of the autocracy. That is, he was a prominent February-revolutionary, and was responsible for the subsequent collapse of the army, the country and the beginning of turmoil and civil war.

The right wing of the feudal Westerners, having destroyed the “old Russia” - hoped to create a “new Russia” - the creation of a "democratic", bourgeois-liberal Russia with the domination of a class of owners, capitalists, bourgeoisie and large landowners - that is, development along the western matrix. They wanted to make Russia part of an “enlightened Europe”, similar to Holland, France or England. However, hopes for this quickly collapsed. The fevralists themselves opened Pandora’s box, destroying all the clutches (autocracy, army, police, old legislative, judicial and punitive systems), which were held back by long-accumulated contradictions and rifts in Russia. Events begin to evolve according to the poorly predicted scenario of the spontaneous rebellion, the Russian distemper, with the strengthening of radical left forces requiring a new development project and fundamental changes. Then the feudalists bet on a “firm hand” - military dictatorship. However, the rebellion of General Kornilov failed. And the Kerensky regime finally buried all hopes of stabilization, having actually done everything so that the Bolsheviks simply took power, almost without resistance. However, the class of owners, the bourgeoisie, the capitalists, their political parties - the Cadets, the Octobrists, did not intend to surrender. They they began to create their own armed forces in order to regain power by force and “calm” Russia. At the same time, they hoped for the help of the Entente - France, Britain, the USA, Japan, etc.

The part of the generals, which had earlier strongly opposed the regime of Nicholas II and the autocracy (Alekseev, Kornilov, Kolchak, etc.), and hoped to occupy leading positions in the "new Russia", was used to create the so-called. White Army, which was supposed to return power to the former "masters of life." As a result, the whites, separatist nationalists and interventionists kindled a terrible civil war in Russia that claimed millions of lives. "White" became the owners, the bourgeoisie, capitalists, landowners, their political superstructure - the liberal-democratic, bourgeois parties and movements (only a few percent with the environment and the attendants from the Russian population). It is clear that the well-groomed rich people, industrialists, bankers, lawyers and politicians themselves did not know how and did not want to fight. They wanted to return the “old Russia”, without the tsar, but with their power — a rich and contented caste (the “crunch of the French roll”) over the poor and illiterate populace. They signed a war of professional soldiers - officers who, after the collapse of the old army, wandered in masses around the cities without cause, Cossacks, and the innocent young men - cadets, junkers, students. After the expansion of the scale of the war, the forced mobilization of former soldiers, workers, citizens, peasants had already begun.

Also high hopes were that "the West will help." AND Western masters really "helped" - to ignite a terrible and bloody civil war in which Russians killed Russians. Actively threw "firewood" in the fire of a fratricidal war - gave promises to the leaders of the white armies and governments, supplied weapon, ammunition and ammunition, provided advisers, etc. Themselves already they divided the skin of the “Russian bear” into spheres of influence and colonies and soon began to divide Russia, simultaneously carrying out its total plunder.

10 (23) December 1917 Chairman of the Council of Ministers and Secretary of War Minister of France Georges Clemenceau and Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of the United Kingdom Robert Cecil concluded a secret agreement on dividing Russia into spheres of influence at a meeting in Paris. London and Paris agreed that from now on they would see Russia not as an ally on the Entente, but as a territory for the realization of their expansionist designs. Areas of alleged military operations were identified. The English sphere of influence included the Caucasus, the Cossack regions of the Don and Kuban, and the French — Ukraine, Bessarabia and the Crimea. Representatives of the United States did not formally participate in the meeting, but they were kept abreast of negotiations, and at the same time, an expansion plan for the Far East and Eastern Siberia was ripe in the administration of President Woodrow Wilson.

The leaders of the West exulted - Russia died, the “Russian question” was resolved once and for all! The West has rid itself of a thousand-year-old enemy, making it difficult to establish complete control over the planet. True, our enemies once again miscalculate, Russia will survive and be able to recover. Russian Communists will win and eventually create a new Russian empire - the USSR. They are implementing an alternative globalization project - the Soviet (Russian), again challenging the West and giving hope to humanity for a fair world order.

Alekseev organization

The right wing of the feudal Westerners (the future whites) and part of the generals conceived to create a new army. It was supposed to create such an organization that, as a “organized military force ..., could withstand impending anarchy and the German-Bolshevik invasion." Initially, the core of such an organization was attempted to create in the capital. General Alekseev arrived in Petrograd on 7 in October 1917 of the year and began to prepare for the creation of an organization in which it was planned to unite officers of spare parts, military schools and simply found themselves in the capital. At the right moment, the general planned to organize combat troops from them.

According to V. V. Shulgin, who was in Petrograd in October, he was present at a meeting held at the apartment of Prince V. M. Volkonsky. In addition to the host and Shulgina, M. V. Rodzianko, P. B. Struve, D. N. Likhachev, N. N. Lvov, V. N. N. Kokovtsev, V. M. Purishkevich were present here. That is, prominent februaryists, who previously participated in the overthrow of Nicholas II and the destruction of autocracy. The main question in the initiated case rested on the complete lack of funds. Alekseev was "morally supported," sympathized with his cause, but were not in a hurry to share money. At the time of the October Revolution, Alekseev’s organization was supported by several thousand officers who either lived in Petrograd, or were for one reason or another in the capital. But almost no one dared give a fight to the Bolsheviks in Petrograd.

Seeing that the business is moving badly in the capital and soon the Bolsheviks could cover the organization, Alekseev 30 of October (12 of November) ordered to transfer to Don "those who want to continue the struggle", supplying them with forged documents and money for travel. The general appealed to all officers and cadets with a call to fight in Novocherkassk, where 2 (15) arrived in November 1917 Mr. Alekseev (and the forces behind him) planned to create statehood and an army on part of the territory of Russia that would be able to withstand Soviet power .

How to create a volunteer army

Infantry General M. V. Alekseev

Alekseev went to the Ataman Palace to the hero of Brusilovsky’s breakthrough to General A. Kaledin. In the summer of 1917, Alexei Kaledin was elected the Don Army Ataman by the Great Circle of the Don Cossack Army. Kaledin became the first elected ataman of the Don Cossacks after the election was abolished by Peter I. In 1709, Kaledin clashed with the Provisional Government, as he opposed the collapse of the army. On September 1, the Minister of War Verkhovsky even ordered the arrest of Kaledin, but the Military Government refused to carry out the order. September 4 Kerensky canceled it, subject to the "guarantee" of the Military Government for Kaledin.

The situation on the Don during this period was extremely difficult. In the main cities, the “alien” population prevailed, alien to the indigenous Cossack population of the Don, both in their composition, peculiarities of life, and political preferences. In Rostov and Taganrog dominated the socialist parties, hostile Cossack government. The working population of the Taganrog District supported the Bolsheviks. In the northern part of Taganrog District there were coal mines and mines of the southern ledge of Donbass. Rostov became the center of resistance to the Cossack domination. At the same time, the left could count on the support of spare military units. The “nonresident” peasantry was not satisfied with the concessions made to it (wide admission to the Cossacks, participation in village self-government, transfer of part of landlord's lands), demanding radical land reform. The Cossacks-front-line soldiers themselves were tired of the war and hated the “old regime”. As a result, the Don regiments, who were returning from the front, did not want to go to a new war and defend the Don region from the Bolsheviks. Cossacks went home. Many regiments without resistance handed in weapons at the request of small red detachments that stood barriers on the railways leading to the Don region. The masses of simple Cossacks supported the first decrees of the Soviet government. Among the front-line Cossacks, the idea of ​​"neutrality" in relation to Soviet power was widely adopted. In turn, the Bolsheviks sought to win over the "labor Cossacks".

Kaledin described the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks as criminal and stated that, pending the restoration of legal authority in Russia, the Army Government assumed full authority in the Don Region. Kaledin from Novocherkassk imposed martial law in the coal-mining region of the region, deployed troops in a number of places, began the defeat of the Soviets and established contacts with the Cossacks of Orenburg, Kuban, Astrakhan and Terek. October 27 (November 9) XEDUMX Kaledin declared martial law throughout the region and invited members of the Provisional Government and the Provisional Council of the Russian Republic to Novocherkassk to organize the struggle against the Bolsheviks. October 1917 (November 31) Don delegates were arrested, returning from the II Congress of Soviets. During the next month, the Soviets in the cities of the Don Region were liquidated.

Thus, Kaledin spoke against the Soviet regime. Don region has become one of the centers of resistance. However, Kaledin, under conditions when the masses of ordinary Cossacks did not want to fight, wanted peace and sympathized at first with the ideas of the Bolsheviks, could not strongly oppose the Soviet government. Therefore, he accepted Alekseev, as an old comrade-in-arms, but refused to accept the future anti-Bolshevik army as a request to “give shelter to the Russian officers,” that is, to take the maintenance of the Don army government. He even asked Alekseev to remain incognito, “not to linger in Novocherkassk for more than a week,” and to transfer the Alekseev formation outside the Don region.


Troops Ataman of the Don Cossacks Region, cavalry general Aleksey Maksimovich Kaledin

Despite such a cold reception, Alekseev immediately began to take practical steps. Already 2 (15) November, he published an appeal to the officers, urging them to "save the motherland." 4 (17) November, a whole lot arrived at 45, a man led by staff captain VD Parfyonov. On this day, General Alekseev initiated the first military unit, the Combined Officer Company. The commander was the staff captain Parfenov. 15 (28) on November was deployed to an officer company of 150-200 men under the command of Staff Captain Nekrashevich.

Alekseev, using his old connections with the Generals of Bet, contacted Stavka in Mogilev. He handed to M. K. Diterikhs an order to send officers and loyal units to the Don under the guise of their redeployment for further recruitment, with issuing money for the officers to travel. He also requested that the decomposed "sovietized" military units be removed from the Don region by disbanding or sending unarmed to the front. The question was raised about negotiations with the Czechoslovak Corps, which, according to Alekseev, should have willingly joined the struggle for "the salvation of Russia." In addition, I asked to send weapons and uniforms to the Don under the guise of creating army stores here, to give outfit to the main artillery department to be sent to the Novocherkassk artillery warehouse up to 30 thousand rifles and generally use every opportunity to transfer military equipment to the Don. However, the rapid decline in the rate and the general collapse of the railway transport prevented all these plans. As a result, with weapons, ammunition and ammunition in the beginning was bad.

When there were already 600 volunteers in the organization, there were about a hundred rifles at all, and there were no machine guns at all. The military warehouses in the territory of the Don Army were full, but the Don authorities refused to give it to volunteers, fearing the wrath of the Cossack front-line soldiers. Weapons had to get both cunning and force. Thus, on the outskirts of Novocherkassk Khotunok, the 272 and 373 spare regiments were quartered, which were completely decomposed and were hostile to the Don authorities. Alekseev proposed to use the forces of volunteers to disarm them. On the night of November 22, volunteers surrounded the shelves and disarmed them without firing a shot. Selected weapons went to volunteers. The artillery was also mined, as it would turn out - one gun was “lent” in the Don reserve artillery division to the solemn funeral of one of the killed junior volunteers, and so “forgotten” to return after the funeral. Two more guns were taken away: completely decomposed units of the 39 Infantry Division arrived in the Stavropol province next to Don from the Caucasian Front. It became known to volunteers that an artillery battery was located near the village of Lezhanka. It was decided to seize her guns. Under the command of naval officer E. N. Gerasimov, a detachment of 25 officers and junkers set off for the Bed. At night, the detachment disarmed sentries and hijacked two guns and four charging boxes. Four more guns and a stock of shells were bought for 5 thousand rubles from the Don artillery units returning from the front. All this shows the highest degree of decomposition of the then Russia, weapons, up to machine guns and tools to get or "get" in one way or another.

By November 15 (28) the Junker Company was formed, which included junkers, cadets and students under the command of staff captain V. D. Parfenov. The 1 platoon consisted of infantry school cadets (mainly Pavlovsky), 2 th artillery, 3 th maritime and 4 th of cadets and students. By mid-November, the entire senior course of the Konstantinovsky artillery school and several dozen Mikhailovsky cadets led by head captain N. A. Shokoli could make their way out of Petrograd in small groups. On November 19, after the arrival of the first 100 junkers, the 2 th platoon of the Junker Company was deployed in a separate part - the Summary Mikhailovsko-Konstantinovskaya battery (which served as the core of the future Markov battery and the art brigade). The Junker Company itself turned into a battalion (two Junker and “Cadet” companies).

Thus, in the second half of November, the Alekseev organization consisted of three formations: 1) Consolidated officer company (up to 200 people); 2) Junker battalion (over 150 people); 3) Summary Mikhailovsko-Konstantinovskaya battery (up to 250 people) under the command of captain N. A. Shokoli). The Georgievskaya company (50-60 people) was in the formation stage, and a record was added to the student squad. Officers made up a third of the organization and 50% - Junker (i.e., the same element). Cadets, students of secular and religious schools were 10%.

In November, Kaledin nevertheless decided to give officers who came to Alexeyev a roof over their heads: in one of the hospitals of the Don branch of the All-Russian Union of Cities under the fictitious pretext that a “weak team, recovering, requiring care” would be placed there, volunteers were started. As a result, the small infirmary No. 2 in No. 36 on the outlying Barochnaya Street, which was a disguised hostel, became the cradle of the future Volunteer Army. Immediately after finding a refuge, Alekseev sent conditional telegrams to loyal officers, meaning that the formation on the Don had begun and it was necessary to immediately begin sending volunteers here. 15 (28) November, volunteer officers arrived from Mogilev, sent by Bid. In the last days of November, the number of generals, officers, junkers and cadets who entered the Alekseevskaya organization exceeded 500 people, and the “hospital” on Barochnaya Street was overcrowded. Volunteers again, with the approval of Kaledin, rescued the Union of Cities, transferring Alekseev to hospital No. 23 on Grushevskaya Street. 6 (19) of December, General L. G. Kornilov also got to Novocherkassk.

A big problem was the collection of funds for the core of the future army. One source was the personal contribution of the participants in the movement. In particular, the first installment in the "army cash" were 10 thousand rubles, brought by Alekseev with him from Petrograd. Personal funds allocated Kaledin. Alekseev was counting on the financial assistance of Moscow industrialists and bankers who promised him support at the time, but they were very reluctant to respond to the requests of the general's couriers, and for all that time they received 360 thousand rubles from Moscow. By agreement with the Don Government, a subscription was made in December in Rostov and Novocherkassk, the funds from which were supposed to be split equally between the Don and Volunteer armies (YES). About 8,5 million rubles were collected, but, contrary to the agreements, YES transferred 2 million. Some volunteers were quite wealthy people. Under their personal guarantees, loans in the total amount of 350 thousand rubles were received in the Rostov branch of the Russian-Asian Bank. An unofficial agreement was concluded with the management of the bank that the debt would not be recovered, and the loan would be credited as a donation to the army (later the bankers would try to get the money back). Alekseev hoped for support from the Entente countries. But during this period they still doubted. Only at the beginning of 1918, after the armistice concluded by the Bolsheviks on the Eastern Front, was received from the military representative of France in Kiev in three batches of 305 thousand rubles. In December, the Don Government decided to leave 25% of state fees collected in the region to the needs of the region. Half of the money collected in this way, about 12 million rubles, was made available YES.


Infantry company of the Volunteer Army, formed from Guards officers. January 1918

To be continued ...
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  1. Basil50
    Basil50 11 January 2018 07: 16
    25
    It is necessary to know how the RUSSIAN EMPIRE fell apart.
    Here are just fans of * buns * will again convince the tsar of the tsar’s power and universal prosperity in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, while lowering the lawlessness of more than 80% of the population and the periodic hunger of the peasants.
    The Bolsheviks managed to defend RUSSIA both from the interventionists and from those who invited these interventionists. Apparently, liberal democrats will never be able to forgive either the RUSSIAN PEOPLE or the Bolsheviks.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 January 2018 07: 56
      15
      Quote: Vasily50
      The Bolsheviks managed to defend RUSSIA both from the interventionists and from those who invited these interventionists.

      Tell us about the "battles" on the Bolshevik-French, Bolshevik-American "fronts", comrade. settler lol fool. And they were invited by the Bolsheviks. Name Russia-was thrown out by the Bolsheviks from the world map-on 70 years.
      Quote: Vasily50
      neither to the RUSSIAN PEOPLE nor to the Bolsheviks

      Do not put an equal sign-the Russian people NEVER ANYTHING Bolsheviks-did not choose and instructed NOTHING!
      The author writes;
      The part of the generals, which had earlier resolutely opposed the regime of Nicholas II and the autocracy (Alekseev, Kornilov, Kolchak, etc.), and hoped to take leading places in the "new Russia", was used to create the so-called. White Army, which was supposed to return power to the former "masters of life».
      .
      What is this mossy image for?
      Denikin and Kolchak clearly indicated their goals: To overthrow the power of the Bolshevik usurpers to return power to the peoplewhich he will express through the elections to the Constituent Assembly.
      And they agreed in advance with ANY choice.
      The author never said, WHY do tens of millions of people should have agreed with a coup of a handful of people who represented only a small part?
      This is the reason for the war.
      1. VS
        VS 11 January 2018 08: 41
        22
        "" WHY did tens of millions of people have to accept the october coup of a handful of people who represented only a small fraction? ""

        - When did you hear the thread about the expression - “The victorious march of the Soviet regime”, are you our next bullet crunch ??))) Do you know that the Soviet power is the power of the people ??))
        A CIVIL CUBA war was unleashed NAMEDLY by the Bulgocrust crusade - who dreamed of returning the peasant to the trenches for the interests of Europe to die on their plantations)) So - go to the forest with your whites .. They already rule today))) together with the Trotskyists and other oligarchic bastard) )))
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 January 2018 09: 25
          10
          Quote: V.S.
          When did you hear the thread about the expression - "The victorious procession of the Soviet power" are you our next boulder crunch ??))))

          Have you ever read the TRUTH about the overthrow of garrison deserters legitimate doom elected by ALL in general secret elections, sand crunch Are you our departed?
          No? So- "learn, etc.". grandfather's testament!
          Quote: V.S.
          ) You are aware that the Soviet power-this is People power ??

          I am aware that this is a lie. This is the power of the party.
          Quote: V.S.
          A CIVIL CUBA war was unleashed NAMED THE GASPAD OF BULKHOKHRUST - who dreamed return the peasant in the trenches for the interests of Europe to die yes on their plantations )

          You are given the program goals of the white-POWER OF THE PEOPLE through the election of the people.
          When the Bolsheviks had elections, there was NOT ever, they were afraid of them like FIRE, like zombie-sunlight.
          Quote: V.S.
          So - you go through the forest

          funny you ....
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 00: 35
            +6
            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: V.S.
            ) Do you know that the Soviet power-this is the power of the people ??

            I am aware that this is a lie. This is the power of the party.


            Dear, no class can lead the country without a leading party
            The working people of Russia had their own workers' Social Democratic Party, which helped the working class to realize its class interest, helped to make a socialist revolution and build the world's first state without a bourgeoisie.

            Look who today rules in Russia, which parties today sit in the State Duma and elect a president? - Bourgeois. The bourgeoisie, through its bourgeois parties, and through its state apparatus, retains power in the country.

            Everything is natural: the workers' Social-Democratic (later communist) party served the working people, and the bourgeois parties serve the bourgeoisie.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 12 January 2018 09: 37
              +2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              The working people of Russia had own working Social Democratic Party, which helped the working class realize its class interest

              Many did not know this "working" party, which was led by hereditary nobles and parasites, for their many years of life, unearned NOT a penny of their labor. No need to lie! "Hard workers", yes lol
              The peasants didn’t know them at all: in 60% of the Cross's Soviets there were none at all, and in the rest they were in the minority. And Russia is 85% PEASANTS!
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 00: 21
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                Many did not know this "working" party, which was led by hereditary nobles and parasites, for their many years of life, who had not earned a dime with their labor. No need to lie! "Hard workers"

                Firstly, no one is lying, you simply do not understand what a labor party is. A labor party does not mean that it consists entirely of workers. The working class cannot develop a socialist ideology on its own, it will draw the maximum on the trade union ideology; therefore, the socialist ideas are introduced into it by the intelligentsia, including the nobility. These are the best representatives of their class who have risen above the prejudices of their class and have taken up proletarian positions.
                Secondly, in order to lead you do not need a multi-million dollar party, quite small enough, but to win you need to have the sympathy of the masses, and it was on the side of the Bolsheviks.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 January 2018 08: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Firstly, no one is lying, you just don’t understand what a labor party is.

                  You lie, here is what you wrote: workers Russia had its own workers' Social Democratic Party.
                  So the working people (in Russia, these are mainly peasants), even did not know about "their" party.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 13: 21
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You lie, this is what you wrote: The working people of Russia had their own workers' Social Democratic Party.

                    Dear, and whose party is this, as not working people. It consisted of the best representatives of the working people, and workers, and peasants, and the intelligentsia; she did everything to free the workers from parasites.
                    I am amazed at your misunderstanding. You must have come to change your mind, otherwise you are fixated on lies. If you constantly lie, then this does not mean that everyone does it.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 January 2018 16: 03
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Dear, and whose party is this if not tore minersI am.

                      I repeat: these same working people did NOT KNOW about "their" party!
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      I am amazed at your misunderstanding. You must have come to change your mind, otherwise you are fixated on lies. If you constantly lie, then this does not mean that everyone does it.

                      Well, you do not lie, but tell a lie yes
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 22: 30
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Well, you do not lie, but tell a lie

                        Well, you see, it’s not so categorical anymore, but you will have a rest in Nice, read the History of the CPSU before going to bed, and then agree with me that about 1917 thousand came out of the underground in February 24 of the Bolsheviks, by October 25, 1917 there were already several hundred thousand, and their ideas were led by millions of Russians, a triumphal march of Soviet power began, and after that the whole world learned about the Bolshevik party.
        2. Dzmicer
          Dzmicer 11 January 2018 09: 26
          10
          - When did you hear the thread about the expression - "The victorious march of the Soviet regime"

          Yeah, victorious. With chlorine and machine-gun teams against peasants armed with “berdanks”, what else will it be?
          CIVIL CUBUS war unleashed NAMED THE GASPAD BULKHOKHRUSTY

          So it was the “Bulk Khrusts” who made an armed seizure of power and dispersed the legitimate (relatively because the “anti-revolutionary” (conservative, monarchist and nationalist) parties were not allowed before the elections), the representative body of power is the All-Russian Constituent Assembly ?! Notably, they loved to crunch a bun Ulyanov companions! laughing
          1. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 09: 45
            17
            Dzmicer Today, 09:26 ↑
            Yeah, victorious. With chlorine and machine-gun teams against peasants armed with “berdanks”, what else will it be?
            Another anti-Soviet myth performed by a neo-fascist with an incomprehensible nickname ... laughing
            So this is the "Bulk Khrust" made an armed seizure of power
            And who overthrew Nikolashka in February? fool Not really the Bolsheviks? request
            1. Dzmicer
              Dzmicer 11 January 2018 10: 37
              10
              Another anti-Soviet myth performed by a neo-fascist with an incomprehensible nickname

              Have you heard of the suppression of the uprising of the peasants in the Tambov region? Or were they not right, not enough Russian and not enough national peasants? Oh yes. For you, these are bandits - and rightly they poisoned them with gas! Right hostages shot!
              ORDER
              Commander of the troops of the Tambov province No. 0116 / operational-secret
              Tambov
              12th of June 1921
              The remnants of the broken gangs and individual bandits who fled from the villages where Soviet power was restored, gather in the forests and from there raid civilians.
              FOR IMMEDIATE CLEANING OF FORESTS I ORDER:
              1. Forests where bandits are hiding should be cleaned with poisonous gases, precisely calculated so that a cloud of suffocating gases spreads completely throughout the forest, destroying everything that was hidden in it.
              2. The artillery inspector should immediately bring in the required number of toxic gas cylinders and the right specialists.
              3. The commanders of the battle areas persistently and vigorously carry out this order.
              4. Report on measures taken.
              Commander Tukhachevsky
              Chief of Staff of the General Staff Kakurin
              Russian State Military Archive F.34228. Op. 1. D.292. L.5

              ORDER
              All-Russian Central Executive Committee Plenipotentiary Commission No. 116
              Tambov
              23th of June 1921
              The experience of the first combat site shows great suitability for quickly cleansing known areas of banditry using the following cleaning method. Particularly gangster-minded volosts are planned and representatives of the county political commission, special department, military tribunal and command departments, along with units intended for the purge, leave there.
              Upon arrival at the place, the volost is cordoned off, 60-100 of the most prominent persons are taken as hostages and a state of siege is introduced. Departure and entry into the volost should be prohibited during the operation. After this, a complete volost gathering is gathered, on which the orders of the Plenipotentiary Commission of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee No. 130 and 171 and the written verdict for this volost are read. Residents are given 2 hours to extradite bandits and weapons, as well as gangster families, and the population is informed that if the information is refused, the hostages will be shot two hours later. If the population of bandits and weapons is not indicated after a two-hour period, the gathering is collected a second time and the hostages taken are shot before the eyes of the population, after which new hostages are taken and those gathered at the gathering are invited to give out bandits and weapons again. Those who want to do this become separate, are divided into hundreds and each hundred is passed for questioning through the polling commission (representatives of the Special Department and the Military Tribunal).
              Everyone should testify, not being dissuaded by ignorance. In case of persistence, new executions are carried out, etc. For the development of the material obtained from the polls, expeditionary units are created with the obligatory participation in them of those who have provided information, and other local residents and are sent to catch bandits. At the end of the purge, the state of siege is lifted, it is put up with a roar and the police are imposed.
              This Plenipotentiary Commission of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee orders to accept for steady execution.
              Chairman of the Plenipotentiary Commission Antonov-Ovseenko
              Commander Tukhachevsky
              Russian State Military Archive F.235. Op. 2. D.16. L.25

              And who overthrew Nikolashka in February?

              Those who overthrew the last legitimate ruler of Russia, the Emperor of All-Russia, the Tsar of Poland and the Grand Duke of Finland, then paid for their oath-crime, if not in their earthly life, then after, at the judgment of God.
              And to their credit, they at least preoccupied with the observance of any law and continuity, in contrast to members of the sect of witnesses of communism.
              1. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 10: 53
                14
                Dzmicer Today, 10:37 ↑
                Have you heard of the suppression of the uprising of the peasants in the Tambov region?
                Heard and what's next? Any power is obliged to protect itself, so your bunch again past the checkout.
                Those who overthrew the last legitimate ruler of Russia, the Emperor of All-Russia, the Tsar of Poland and the Grand Duke of Finland, then paid for their oath-crime, if not in their earthly life, then after, at the judgment of God.
                That is, all white-chasing officers, all industrialists and other bourgeois elements, all are polls being fried in Hell now, I understand correctly?
                And to their credit, they at least preoccupied with the observance of any law and continuity, in contrast to members of the sect of witnesses of communism.
                what legitimization, founding or something? Don’t tell my slippers, another liberal-utopian myth about the legitimate US ... laughing laughing laughing
                There is only one legitimate power, one that won! The rest is nonsense at the level, and if my grandmother had BE ... then she would be. In general, if, yes, if only ...
                1. Dzmicer
                  Dzmicer 11 January 2018 11: 00
                  +8
                  Heard and what's next? Any power is obliged to protect itself, so your bunch again past the checkout.

                  Like any people, they have the right to protect themselves from criminal power.
                  That is, all white-chasing officers, all industrialists and other bourgeois elements, all are polls being fried in Hell now, I understand correctly?

                  Exactly. They opened the gate to Hell and Hell burst out, swallowing the lives of the right and the guilty. We still roast in this hell.
                  what legitimization, founding or something? Don’t tell my slippers, another liberal-utopian myth about the legitimate US

                  As I wrote - conditionally legitimate - because patriotic forces were not allowed to the elections. But still, it was an election, and those who were sorry for Russia won.
                  There is only one legitimate power, one that won!

                  Legitimate power is one that is based on law and continuity. Power based on the right of power is the power of a tyrant and an invader, whom the Bolshevik international was.
                  1. MrK
                    MrK 11 January 2018 11: 08
                    +6
                    Quote: Dzmicer
                    Legitimate power is one that is based on law and continuity. Power based on the right of power is the power of a tyrant and an invader, whom the Bolshevik international was.

                    And Yeltsman shot the White House by law. And succession with the USSR, well, I took it straight.
                    1. Dzmicer
                      Dzmicer 11 January 2018 11: 21
                      +9
                      Yeltsin is flesh from flesh and blood from the blood of Soviet power. Which has changed in form, but in content has remained the same.
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 11 January 2018 18: 06
                        +7
                        yes no .. Yeltsin is an olgovich who was a member of the party and did everything he was told. Now he is a member of another party and does what they say. An ordinary woman with reduced social responsibility .. who and the owner will give buns ... all the size figures and buns ..
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 11 January 2018 23: 56
                        +4
                        Quote: Dzmicer
                        Yeltsin is flesh from flesh and blood from the blood of Soviet power. Which has changed in form, but in content has remained the same.

                        No dear, by 1991, Soviet power had just remained the same in form, but in content, beginning with the Khrushchev transformations, it had changed. Under the banner of the struggle against the "personality cult" of Stalin, the socialist essence of Soviet power was destroyed. And the main thing in this destruction was the rejection of the dictatorship of the proletariat, after which former fists, Bendera, Vlasov and their followers climbed into the party and the Soviet organs. So Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Shushkevich and their friend Gorbachev from these ...
                  2. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 11 January 2018 21: 03
                    +5
                    Quote: Dzmicer
                    But still, it was an election, and those who were sorry for Russia won.
                    Yes? And who were these "conspirators"?
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 11 January 2018 11: 16
                  11
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  There is only one legitimate authority victory!

                  When the bandit will cut you in the gateway, remember THIS: he is stronger, then he is right! yes
                  By the way, where are those "victorious 17g"? belay Where are you ?! belay A-dumb! request
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 00: 42
                    +5
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    By the way, where are these "victorious 17g"? Where are you ?! A-dumb!

                    Stalin said that defeated armies study well ...
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 12 January 2018 09: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Stalin said that the defeated armies study well ...

                      You did not answer the question: WHERE are they? 65 years have passed and silence ... yes
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 00: 27
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You did not answer the question: WHERE are they? 65 years have passed and silence ...

                        Do you want to join? Contact.
                        https://work-way.com/blog/
                3. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 48
                  10
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  There is only one legitimate power, one that won!

                  In other words, you want to say that the terrorists in the Middle East, who recently seized territories in Syria and Iraq, are “the legitimate power that won”?
                  1. Proxima
                    Proxima 11 January 2018 13: 19
                    +7
                    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    There is only one legitimate power, one that won!

                    In other words, you want to say that the terrorists in the Middle East, who recently seized territories in Syria and Iraq, are “the legitimate power that won”?
                    How's Marshak? “The rebellion cannot end in luck, otherwise, his name is different!” That is, the victorious revolution is already a priori legal and legitimate! History does not know any other practice. request
                    1. Dzmicer
                      Dzmicer 11 January 2018 15: 48
                      +5
                      The Pol Pot regime in Cambodia was also legal, right? Like the Nazi regime in Germany?
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 11 January 2018 16: 51
                        +5
                        After the Nazi and Communist election success in 1930, Reich Chancellor Heinrich Brüning (Center Party), who was at the head of a parliamentary minority government not supported by the Social Democrats, made every effort to preserve the constitution and state. He announced a ban on the activities of the SS and the SA, which was however lifted in 1932 by Bruening's successor von Papen under pressure from the Hindenburg and right-wing nationalist forces concentrated around von Schleicher.
                        Thanks to joint actions with the German National People's Party and the Steel Helmet in a referendum against the Young Plan of 1929 and participation in the Harzburg Front in 1931, the National Socialists raised their prestige and were admitted to the higher circles. The massive, as the left claimed, industrialists, by contrast, during this period did not contribute to the advancement of the National Socialists to power. Only a few representatives of business circles supported Hitler in November 1932 with their collective petition of the Hindenburg to appoint the leader of the National Socialists as Chancellor.
                        January 1933: Many members of Hindenburg’s inner circle (including the Crown Prince of Prussia Wilhelm, Elard von Oldenburg-Januschau) spoke in favor of Hitler for the post of head of government.
                        January 15, 1933: The NSDAP triumphs in the Lippe Landtag election and thereby indirectly increases its pressure on Schleicher.
                        January 28, 1933: Schleicher's resignation as a result of a failure in the negotiations to support his government and Hindenburg reject his plan to get out of the state of emergency in the country.
                        January 30, 1933: Adolf Hitler appointed Reich Chancellor of the Weimar Republic. Initially, only two members of the NSDAP entered Hitler’s office - Wilhelm Frick as Minister of the Interior and Hermann Goering as Minister without a briefcase.
                        So - complete legitimacy ...
                  2. hohol95
                    hohol95 11 January 2018 13: 40
                    +4
                    Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte was the LEGITIMATE president and dictator of CHILE?
                    1. Proxima
                      Proxima 11 January 2018 14: 29
                      +4
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Augusto José Ramón Pinochet Ugarte was the LEGITIMATE president and dictator of CHILE?
                      And who did you think he was? The same thing can be said about Poroshenko, no matter how we treat these “comrades”. And vice versa, the illegally overthrown Yanukovych is now illegitimate. This is the practice hi
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 11 January 2018 14: 33
                        +4
                        I wanted to hear from Teterin! hi
                        Even the cat understands - who got up before - TOGO AND SLIPPERS .. soldier
                        Good always triumphs over Evil - whoever triumphs is GOOD!
              2. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 00: 54
                +5
                Quote: Dzmicer
                ORDER
                Commander of the troops of the Tambov province No. 0116 / operational-secret
                Tambov
                12th of June 1921
                The remnants of the broken gangs and individual bandits who fled from the villages where Soviet power was restored, gather in the forests and from there raid civilians.
                FOR IMMEDIATE CLEANING OF FORESTS I ORDER:
                1. Forests where bandits are hiding should be cleaned with poisonous gases, precisely calculated so that a cloud of suffocating gases spreads completely throughout the forest, destroying everything that was hidden in it.

                Do you believe in this fake? First of all, the "operational-secret" signature stamp touches me very much. Secondly, those who made this fake do not even imagine that the gases are used in open areas, but not in the forest. Thirdly, harmless chloropicrin (tear gas) was used as a "poisonous, killing all living things" gas. You have apparently never served or tested your gas mask using this gas.
                Tukhachevsky himself would not have written such bullshit.
          2. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 11 January 2018 10: 01
            +4
            Dzmicer "With Chlorine" - And here from here in more detail please.)))
            1. MrK
              MrK 11 January 2018 11: 13
              10
              Quote: Nagaibak
              And here from here in more detail please.)))

              On 2 of August 1921 of the year, red artillery, by order of Tukhachevsky, fired 59 of chemical shells on the island of Such Dubki. After that, the Soviet units combed the island. The only thing they managed to find there these are three horses tied to trees. Which did not suffer.
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 11 January 2018 20: 37
                +4
                There is nothing to add.))) And precisely in 21 years? Not in 1920? Well, that doesn't matter. Basically. The first to indulge in this affair were precisely the whites back in the 18th year. Near Beloretsk almost 700 shells were fired.))) And the Reds are to blame anyway.)))
          3. VS
            VS 11 January 2018 16: 57
            +5
            "" So these “Bulk-crunches" made an armed seizure of power and dispersed the legitimate (relatively, because the "anti-revolutionary" (conservative, monarchist and nationalist) parties were not allowed before the elections), the representative body of power is the All-Russian Constituent Assembly ?! Notably, they liked to crunch Ulyanov’s bun ""

            - So you yourself in what class would you be respected ???

            And why are yours white - they did not convince the people - having behind them a bastard from the EU and the USA to help - what should the people follow for THEM - to paradise capitalism ??))
            1. Dzmicer
              Dzmicer 11 January 2018 17: 03
              +7
              so you yourself in what class would you be respected ???

              At the beginning of the 20th century, estates in the Republic of Ingushetia actually ceased to exist, my dear. And so from the peasants I am. Soviet slave-collective farmers.
              And why are yours white - they did not convince the people - having behind them a bastard from the EU and the USA to help - what should the people follow for THEM - to paradise capitalism ??))

              The Russian people are passive, atomized. And selfish. What the Bolsheviks took advantage of, legitimizing acts of robbery by peasants of the remnants of landowner property (namely, remnants, 85% of the land then belonged to peasants). What the "whites" could not do, because for them the word "law" was not an empty phrase.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 01: 05
                +5
                Quote: Dzmicer
                And so from the peasants I am. Soviet slave-collective farmers.

                Poor you are our slave, I feel sorry for you, I am a city dweller, while still at school, every fall, sincerely, sincerely and free of charge, I helped your dad and mom collect the collective farm crop.
          4. long in stock.
            long in stock. 11 January 2018 18: 01
            +6
            and now prove about chlorine. Give documents about the use of chemical weapons. There will be no documents, you will be recognized as yap like olgovich. He has already yawned branded more than once on lies. Do you want to be next?
            1. Dzmicer
              Dzmicer 11 January 2018 20: 33
              +5
              The above has already given:
              ORDER
              Commander of the troops of the Tambov province No. 0116 / operational-secret
              Tambov
              12th of June 1921
              The remnants of the broken gangs and individual bandits who fled from the villages where Soviet power was restored, gather in the forests and from there raid civilians.
              FOR IMMEDIATE CLEANING OF FORESTS I ORDER:
              1. Forests where bandits are hiding should be cleaned with poisonous gases, precisely calculated so that a cloud of suffocating gases spreads completely throughout the forest, destroying everything that was hidden in it.
              2. The artillery inspector should immediately bring in the required number of toxic gas cylinders and the right specialists.
              3. The commanders of the battle areas persistently and vigorously carry out this order.
              4. Report on measures taken.
              Commander Tukhachevsky
              Chief of Staff of the General Staff Kakurin
              Russian State Military Archive F.34228. Op. 1. D.292. L.5
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 11 January 2018 21: 33
                +6
                do not show me the order. I can show you this from white documents that it will seem like childish talk. You show what you promised, where and when the chemical ammunition was APPLIED. while you, like Powell, shake a test tube from the rostrum ...
      2. Varyag_0711
        Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 08: 53
        17
        Olgovich Today, 07:56 ↑ New
        Tell us about the "battles" on the Bolshevik-French, Bolshevik-American "fronts"
        Well, again, the baker got his mournful record. Neither France, nor England, nor the United States, nor Japan were going to fight on the side of your White Guard shortcomings, but they, with pleasure and with no small advantage for themselves, robbed Russia again, not without help and with the full consent of the white-bellied ones. And how many peaceful people did the interventionists put in the land? Of course, about the concentration camps in Arkhangelsk and other occupied territories, you have not heard anything? And by the way, where did the little gold of RI swim away, do you not know?
        Do not put an equal sign-the Russian people NEVER ANYTHING Bolsheviks-did not choose and instructed NOTHING!
        So he did not choose whites and did not entrust them with anything.
        And to you personally as a convinced fool the question is, why was the Dobroarmia forced to leave the Don and why were there practically no Cossacks in it? What people did not support your "white and noble"? Yes, because he wanted to spit on the white movement, and on the king, and on your constituent assembly, with which you rush like Hima with a sieve!
        Denikin and Kolchak clearly indicated their goals: To overthrow the power of the Bolshevik usurpers in order to return power to the PEOPLE, which he will express through the elections to the Constituent Assembly.
        Yeah, well, straight "schaz" will cry out with tenderness ... fool laughing Kolchak especially was so eager to regain power to the people that he declared himself the self-proclaimed "supreme ruler" of Russia, and this very people, which he was so eager to regain power by thousands, destroyed, and with savage methods.
        Go tell your tales of the "echo matzah" so fabulous fool fool fool the place is only there! laughing laughing laughing
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 January 2018 09: 54
          +8
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          Well, again, the baker got his mournful record. Neither France, nor England, nor the United States, nor Japan were going to fight on the side of your White Guard shortcomings, but they, with pleasure and with no small advantage for themselves, robbed Russia again, not without help and with the full consent of the white-haired

          The Great War was enough for them, WHY should they fight? belay ! What's wrong with you? fool Their goal iscompletion of PMV,those. and - ensuring the eastern flank. The goal is achieved, they are gone. I note, by the way, that BEFORE the Bolsheviks, there were neither interventionists nor civil war.
          The Bolsheviks all arranged, first of all, over, German occupiers which the usurpers have forgiven all crimes against Russia, fed, gave gold and breathed strength to continue the world massacre. They completely arranged the rest: they ruined Russia for a long time (competitor), and then "Let them boil in their own juice"
          Quote: Varyag_0711
          Yeah, well, right "schaz" will cry .

          Yes, cry for health! yes This is your fate. hi
          1. Varyag_0711
            Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 10: 05
            16
            Olgovich, you do not move off the topic and do not spin like in a frying pan. So why didn’t the people follow the Dobroarmia? Why were they like husky dogs forced to flee Novocherkassk? Why did the Cossacks not follow them?

            And fairy tales about the fact that the interventionists because of the Bolsheviks appeared, this is beyond the limits. fool By the way, they unleashed a civil war, and it was your whites that pulled the interventionists into Russia.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 10: 53
              +9
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              So why didn’t the people follow the Dobroarmia?

              And the people at the beginning of 1918 did not understand what was going on with the authorities. Then, when the Bolsheviks showed their true face ... Then the workers of the Izhevsk and Votkinsk plants began to fight for the whites, and the Samur regiment and captured Red Army soldiers recruited, and Mamantov’s detachment with reinforcements from the volunteers returned.
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              And the tales about the fact that the interventionists because of the Bolsheviks appeared, is
              not fairy tales, but the truth itself.
              US President Wilson and his adviser House insisted that the intervention should be carried out “with the consent of the Soviet government.” A certain Yuriev came from the USA; he was made chairman of the Murmansk Council of Deputies. And to protect the port and warehouses came a detachment of ships of Admiral Kemp.

              March 1, 1918 Yuriev sent a request to the Council of People's Commissars. It was pointed out that the German offensive and their connection with the White Finns posed a threat to the Murmansk Territory. Allied readiness to provide support was reported. And that evening Trotsky sent telegram No. 252 to Murmansk: “You must accept all assistance from the allied missions and counter all obstacles against predators.”

              On March 2, a joint meeting of the Murmansk Sovdep, the Russian and Union command took place, at which a rather strange document was worked out - "A verbal, but verbatim protocol agreement on the joint actions of the British, French and Russians on the defense of the Murmansk Territory." The basis is “the order of the Commissar of Trotsky.”
              http://www.istpravda.ru/digest/13135/
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              unleashed a civil war
              it was the Reds, having dispersed the Constituent Assembly, which expressed the will of the people.
              1. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 11: 02
                15
                Lieutenant Teterin Today, 10:53 ↑
                And the people at the beginning of 1918 did not understand what was going on with the authorities. Then, when the Bolsheviks showed their true face ... Then the workers of the Izhevsk and Votkinsk plants began to fight for the whites, and the Samur regiment and captured Red Army soldiers recruited, and Mamantov’s detachment with reinforcements from the volunteers returned.
                Porutchik you can safely comment on your nonsense. Pulling out certain facts of the transition to the side of the white, individual dissatisfied, you are trying to present this as a mass popular movement against the Bolsheviks, but this is an obvious blatant FALSE. If the people in their mass did not support the Bolsheviks, then they would not be able to maintain power while in a continuous enemy environment. It was the people who defeated both your white infirmities and your allies-occupiers.
                having dispersed the Constituent Assembly, expressing the will of the people.
                It was the Bolsheviks who expressed the will of the people and the people supported them, and your much-praised CSS was a gathering of all kinds of riffraffers who could do nothing but talk!
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 27
                  +8
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  You can safely comment on your nonsense.

                  You begin to swear. Great, this is a sign that you have no arguments, only emotions.
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  Pulling out individual facts of the transition to the side of the white individual dissatisfied,

                  Hm. Tens of thousands of people who went over to the side of the whites and raised uprisings - these are separate facts of the transition of individual dissatisfied?
                  The rebels had significant numerical superiority. On August 8, their units numbered up to 6 people, including about 000 officers, 300 front-line soldiers and 3 workers. Realizing that the city could not be held, the Reds retreated. By the end of August 000, Izhevsk was completely controlled by the rebels.
                  http://www.sensusnovus.ru/featured/2015/08/08/214
                  44.html
                  And here is the infographic for armed uprisings against the Bolsheviks:

                  And all this you call nonsense and a lie? Do you want to argue with reality?
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  then they would not be able to maintain power while in a continuous enemy environment.

                  The Bolsheviks were able to maintain power by terror. Intimidating the population with the help of international squads of punishers. I already wrote about this above. And the Communists themselves wrote about this:
                  Lenin pointed out the necessity of rallying all military forces into a powerful international Red Army. Great assistance was given to the internationalists by Y. M. Sverdlov, F. E. Dzerzhinsky, S. M. Kirov, E. D. Stasova, E. M. Sklyansky, I. I. Podvoisky, M. V. Frunze and others. A prominent role Foreign internationalists played in the formation of the international movement: Bela Kun (Hungarian), S. Bobinsky (Pole), Vukashin Markovich (Montenegrins), M. Buzhor (Romanians), S. Chastek (Czech) and many others. During the years of the Civil War it was created over 250 international detachments, companies, battalions and regiments. In these units, along with volunteers from foreign countries, commanders and fighters — Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Tatars, Uzbeks, and others — fought. In total, approximately 250-300 thousand foreign internationalists were part of the Red Army at different times.
                  Source: Lit .: Lenin V.I., Speech at a meeting of the Warsaw Revolutionary Regiment on August 2, 1918, Poln. Sobr. Op., 5th ed., vol. 37; The military community of working people of foreign countries with the peoples of Soviet Russia (1917-1922), Moscow, 1957; Zharov Ch. I., Ustinov V. M., International units of the Red Army in battles for Soviet power during the years of foreign military intervention and civil war in the USSR, M., 1960; Internationalists in the battles for power of the Soviets. [Sat articles], M., 1965; The participation of workers of foreign countries in the October Revolution, M., 1967; Internationalists. Working people of foreign countries - participants in the struggle for power of the Soviets, M., 1967. https://www.booksite.ru/fulltext/1/001/008/055/69
                  8.htm
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  and your vaunted CSS was

                  ... an expression of the will of the people. Because for deputies in the CSS voted popularly and the election results show exactly the distribution of preferences people
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 11 January 2018 14: 58
                    +3
                    Before 1917, the number of annual peasant uprisings was the best indicator of the political and social situation in the Russian Empire. At the beginning of the XIX century, they annually occurred on average 26. Single and collective performances fell into this category. This time was marked by a complete preservation of the situation in the village — not a single attempt by the authorities of a big peasant reform was carried through to the end.
                    After the defeat in the Crimean War, on the eve of the abolition of serfdom, the peasants rebelled more often:
                    in 1856 - 66 cases;
                    in 1857 - 100;
                    in 1858 - 378;
                    in 1859 - 797.

                    Later, historians will call this the main sign of the development of the revolutionary situation in Russia at that time. The abolition of serfdom became an act of self-preservation of imperial power.
                    After the Great Reforms of Alexander II, the number of appearances began to decline. In the 1870s, at the peak of the Narodniks' activity, the peasants rebelled with much less desire than in previous decades - on average 36 cases a year.
                    In the 1880s - the time of the counter-reforms of Alexander III - an average of 73 annual appearances were recorded, and in the 1890s the number of revolts increased to 57 per year.

                    And so the peasants opposed the landowner in 1902 -
                    In early April, following the Poltava province, peasant revolts spread to Kharkov. Only the first of April at the same time was completely 22 attacks on landlords. Witnesses of the uprising were surprised to see that the peasants were trying to sow the captured landlords immediately, hoping that they would not be taken away later.
                    The investigative materials describe the reasons that prompted the peasants to revolt: “When the victim Fesenko appealed to the crowd who came to rob him, asking what they want to ruin him for, the accused Zaitsev said:“ You have one 100 tithes, and we have one Tithing per family. Would you try to live on one tithe of land ... "".
                    Later, investigators noted that the uprising was held under the general slogan “No bread! No land! But don't give it - we'll take it anyway! ”In total, about 40 thousands of peasants from 337 villages took part in it.

                    The peasant lived well under the kings - priests and queens - mothers !!!
                    Since the time of the Pugachev uprising (1773-1775), imperial authorities have weaned themselves from large-scale riots of peasants. Throughout the 1902th century, unrest covered only one locality - neighbors rarely decided on support. In XNUMX, a peasant uprising and further unrest began to take place according to the network, viral principle: riots in one village spread to neighboring ones, gradually capturing new territories.
                    In total, in the years 1901-1904 there were twice as many of them as in the years 1897-1900 - 577 against 232 cases.
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 11 January 2018 12: 52
                  +5
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  It was the Bolsheviks who expressed the will of the people and the people supported them,

                  Yes Yes! Therefore, the kombons were guarding their carcasses ... by LATISH and CHINESE mercenaries! "People" elect are lol
                  By the way, all the "tyrannationalists" who remained in the country were killed in 1937-1938 by their "comrades" in the struggle: they did at least something good! yes
                  1. long in stock.
                    long in stock. 11 January 2018 18: 20
                    +7
                    ... out of 2 million prisoners of war, 40 people joined the Red Army .. the Latvian nationals of the Russian empire and its citizens at that time fought with the Germans extremely stubbornly - not a couple to many nobles. There are much more reasons to consider them Russian - than the hysteria from Moldova. .Chines ... well, what kind of warriors are they, especially at that moment everyone who has studied history a little bit. And nevertheless, some pseudo-hits on this site persistently cry how they were defeated by the Chinese together with the sailors .. Karl Chinese !!!. It turns out that the fighters who were prepared for military service from childhood in the native steppe by the former builders, whom the Chinese were, and the sailors who, if they were sitting on a horse before the draft in their native village without a saddle and did not know anything about the cavalry war. Of course, the place with the Jews was defeated by autocratic officers for whom war is the main occupation. Maybe the tsar had to hire more Chinese so that they defeated the Germans and did not have to fight for 000 years .. bravo. Go to new heights of confusion ... olgovich is our helmsman !!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 12 January 2018 09: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: long in stock.
                      ... out of 2 million prisoners of war, 40 people joined the Red Army .. the Latvian nationals of the Russian empire and its citizens at that time fought with the Germans extremely stubbornly - not a couple to many nobles. There are much more reasons to consider them Russian - than the hysteria from Moldova. .Chines ... well, what kind of warriors are they, especially at that moment everyone who has studied history a little bit. And nevertheless, some pseudo-hits on this site persistently cry how they were defeated by the Chinese together with the sailors .. Karl Chinese !!!. It turns out that the fighters who were prepared for military service from childhood in the native steppe by the former builders, whom the Chinese were, and the sailors who, if they were sitting on a horse before the draft in their native village without a saddle and did not know anything about the cavalry war. Of course, the place with the Jews was defeated by autocratic officers for whom war is the main occupation. Maybe the tsar had to hire more Chinese so that they defeated the Germans and did not have to fight for 000 years .. bravo. Go to new heights of confusion ... olgovich is our helmsman !!

                      Leave me alone, man! I DO NOT communicate with you, do not read you and do not comment., Because I disdain. I am sending you, and you are again being imposed and imposed. Not a drop of pride request
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 12 January 2018 12: 17
                        +5
                        but no one talks to you. only the doctors in the hospital except ... the answer was to Teterin ... but you, as well as a narcissistic sufferer, think that the sun revolves around you ... and the fact that the site has such answers I don’t influence I can .. but I follow you, not every day right before our eyes a person plunges into the abyss of madness ...
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 12 January 2018 12: 32
                      +2
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      and nobody talks with you. only doctors in the hospital

                      Hmm .. I have the "Answer" displayed, I open, thinking that there is an interesting person, and there, ifi !, that is, you. Attentively answer: to the lieutenant or press the "Quote" button. And then you and there and here, and you all the same are imposed, bother request Not a drop of pride? request
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 12 January 2018 15: 25
                        +2
                        Well then answer? they wanted to go to their native puddle? are you there like kerosene mixed with water and lard? a young chemist .. to quote you is the same as you need not to have reason ..
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 13 January 2018 01: 45
                        +2
                        I believe that Olgovich has long plunged into this very abyss of insanity and is reporting from there. From there he extracts all sorts of nasty things about the USSR! There he meets with the Moldovan banned Alexander, otherwise how could he talk about what was on the site before?
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 January 2018 08: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      Well then answer? they wanted to go to their native puddle? are you there like kerosene mixed with water and fat? a young chemist .. to quote you is the same as you need reason you don’t have

                      I already wrote why:, but for the tankman I repeat:
                      I "Answer" is displayed, I open thinking that there is an interesting person, and there -phi !, i.e. You. Carefully answer: to the lieutenant or click on the “Quote” button so that I DO NOT see you! And then you and there and here, and you all the same impose yourself, bother request Not a drop of pride?

                      I hope that you will not bother me: I do not see you, you-me
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 13 January 2018 14: 28
                        +3
                        not olgovich .. I’m set up like that. I’m moving a liar, I’ll spit in the eye .... and it suits me .. if the liar doesn’t like it, it can disappear from my road ..
                    4. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 January 2018 16: 16
                      0
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      not olgovich..arranged я tak.vizhu liar spit in the eye .... and it suits me .. if the liar doesn’t like it, it can disappear from my path.

                      Defective The device is understandable. lol
                      When a normal man is sent, he does the same in return and forever says goodbye. But so that the man would be sent, and he would all come and come for a new portion ... belay fool lol
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 13 January 2018 19: 34
                        +3
                        well you come ... and whether to speak about the NORMAL men to you? a normal person doesn’t lie .. it’s disgusting to him ... although to whom I say this .. a man with an extremely flexible spine ..
                    5. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 January 2018 08: 11
                      0
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      Well, you come ..

                      This is natural: I disdain and do not communicate with you.
                      But YOU come to me all the time, again and again, for ..... a new portion. lol
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 14 January 2018 10: 33
                        +3
                        but I don’t communicate with you .. I dunk you in a puddle .. and I like it ..
                    6. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 January 2018 11: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      but I don’t communicate with you .. I dunk you in a puddle .. and I like it ..

                      Oh, you again for a new portion? Well, go! yes lol
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      I dunk you in a puddle.

                      Do not read Your nonsense, richly flavored with rudeness. How many times to repeat? belay
                      Chop it yourself - a knot! lol
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 14 January 2018 12: 08
                        +3
                        and I’m not writing for you ... miserable .. this is so that people can see what substance you are. If you don’t read, then why answer, then it’s lying ... lies as a way of life ...
                    7. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 January 2018 13: 38
                      0
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      and I’m not writing for you ... miserable .. this is so that people see what substance you are. If you don’t read, then why answer, then it’s lying ... lies like a way of life ..

                      Come, dear, come again, from me! yes
                      Quote: long in stock.
                      why answer
                      I repeat the FIFTH time: I get the "answer" displayed, I open it, and there-fi! negative
                      The purpose of my answers now is to try to rid myself of this dust and a waste of time in the future.
                      Am I clearly spelling out? Or repeat the SIXTH time? belay
                      Press "quote" and - be satisfied with your health -hi lol
                      1. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 14 January 2018 16: 04
                        +3
                        come on ... well, what a waste of time ... you still have nothing to do .. and at least talk to people here. You still need to talk to the mirror and doctors ..
                    8. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 15 January 2018 10: 59
                      0
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      come on ...Well, what a waste of time ...all the same, you don’t have to do anything .. and at least talk to people here. You still don’t talk to the mirror and doctors ..

                      Disdain, neglect, disrespect, ignore, disdain, dear man: again, is it not clear?
                      Quote: Long in stock.
                      .and сat least chat with people

                      DO NOT impose me your communication Зhere it is indecent, where have you been taught? belay
                      How many times to send you? request
                      We have a wonderful relationship, for example, with a sailboat: it does not exist for me, I for him.
                      Click "QUOTE" and -satisfied.
                      From now on, I DO NOT answer.
                      PS You know how they write in the press automatically: "ISIS-terror. Organ-I".
                      So, consider that when you answer me, every time you get an automatic answer: "Come, from me!" yes
              2. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 01: 12
                +5
                Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                Then the workers of the Izhevsk and Votkinsk plant began to fight for the whites, and the Samur regiment and captured Red Army men recruited, and Mamantov’s detachment with reinforcements from the volunteers returned.

                And when Kolchak overcame the peasants of all Siberia, shot his "founding", then everyone, even the darkest ones, realized that the Soviet power was the power of the working people, and Kolchak was tied up because his army had fled.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 January 2018 11: 35
              +7
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              . So why didn’t the people follow the Dobroarmia? Why were they like husky dogs forced to flee Novocherkassk? Why did the Cossacks not follow them?

              The people went, almost to Moscow and reached the Volga. 4 years Russia fought. Plus peasant wars. But, all the property of the 12 millionth Russian army went to the Bolsheviks, plus the most severe repressions, blackmail and terror when recruiting the Red Army (all the same, 40-50% of deserters). . Plus false propaganda and false false promises that are not fulfilled. Plus the betrayal of the allies of the Entente, who did not want a powerful Russia.
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              And fairy tales about the fact that the interventionists because of the Bolsheviks appeared, this is beyond the limits.

              You will even study the FACTS in chronological order, otherwise there’s nothing to talk about with you: an oct-turn in 17m, then after: Moscow, Don, Terek, Ural, Ukraine, Cf. Asia - sent coups directly to the Bolsheviks recognized the Grazhd. the war is already in November. Further, the dispersal of the UX, intervention, the declaration of independence by all, etc. Coincidence, yes? fool lol
              Quote: Varyag_0711
              By the way, they unleashed a civil war, and it was your whites that pulled the interventionists into Russia.

              Dot you, there was nothing. With you, see P.1
            3. captain
              captain 11 January 2018 12: 36
              +5
              Varyag_0711, so where did the Bolsheviks divide Ukraine, Belarus, Azerbaijan ...? Your Bolsheviks sold the land that they received as a result of their coup, or rather their pupils. Stalin did not have time to tidy up all this Lenin-Trotsky brethren with his fingernail. It’s a pity, now people are tormented.
      3. karish
        karish 11 January 2018 10: 40
        +7
        Quote: Olgovich
        The author never said, WHY do tens of millions of people have to agree with the octupere of a handful of people who represented only a small part?
        This is the reason for the war.

        100500 good
        The Bolsheviks are the real usurpers of power.
        Without them, Russia would be the greatest country in the world.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 01: 15
          +3
          Quote: karish
          Without them, Russia would be the greatest country in the world.

          And under the Bolsheviks, Soviet Russia - the USSR became the greatest country in the universe.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 12 January 2018 09: 52
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Green
            And under the Bolsheviks, Soviet Russia - the USSR became the greatest country in the universe

            On the world map was NOT the name "Russia", do not lie! USSR was. Where, by the way, led. page of the universe?
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 00: 37
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              On the world map was NOT the name "Russia", do not lie! USSR was. Where, by the way, led. page of the universe?

              How was it not? RSFSR - Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic, which became native to more than a hundred nationalities. I hope you will not argue that this is not the same. Russia was at heart, and on the map were Kievan Rus, the Moscow state, the Russian Empire, the RSFSR and the USSR. Today is the Russian Federation.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 13 January 2018 09: 59
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                How was it not? RSFSR - Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic

                SO! Show on the map of the WORLD 1990 g-Russia?! NO her!
                There is a USSR.

                Quote: Alexander Green
                Russia was in the showere, and on the map

                Falling! fool lol
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 13: 28
                  +4
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  SO! Show on the map of the WORLD 1990 r-Russia ?! NO her!
                  There is a USSR.


                  You will be surprised, but on the map of the solar system there is not even America, one Earth, and on the maps of the 15-16-17-18 centuries there is no Russian name either, there is Muscovy, the Russian Empire.
                  Why do you name the USSR worse?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 13 January 2018 16: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    You will be surprised, but on the map of the solar system there is not even America, only Earth,

                    But on other maps and the solar system is not visible. AND?
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Yes, and on the maps of the 15-16-17-18-19 centuries there is no Russian name either, there is Muscovy, the Russian Empire.

                    The USSR was, yes? laughing
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Why do you name the USSR worse?

                    RUSSIA, where? This is the name of the country given to her by her people, if not in the know.
                    And the people did not call it any Union. The patriots at the cabal decided. That is not him, But Russia is.Like the Russian people, unlike ..
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 22: 44
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      And the people did not call it any Union. The patriots at the cabal decided. Here it is not, But Russia is. Like the Russian people, unlike ..

                      Well, do not tell me, I regularly visited abroad from 1969 to 1991. and we met there with fellow countrymen always asked: "Have you been from the Union for a long time?", "When do you go to the Union?" The fact that he is not here today is a tragedy, his enemies destroyed, and today, with your denial of the Soviet period, you are contributing to the further destruction of the Russian Federation. It was not for nothing that the dissident Zinoviev repented that they had been tagged in the USSR, but had come to Russia. Stop already.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 January 2018 08: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Well, do not tell me, I regularly visited abroad from 1969 to 1991. and we met there with fellow countrymen always asked: "Have you been from the Union for a long time?", "When do you go to the Union?"

                        And how else could you say to understand? Russia did not exist from the Carpathians to Kamchatka.
                        I had a view that no one asked the Russian people when they renamed it Russia into a union incomprehensible to him
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        The fact that he is not here today is a tragedy, his enemies destroyed

                        Tragedy, yes, but it was laid down in 1922, when Russia was cut open in a living way, giving its indigenous parts to some Ukraine and other republics. "Here and" pulled. "Where did the enemies come from?
                        No, they were brought up by the authorities themselves, who nurtured nationalist elites, imbued with national swagger and pride in their "cultures and histories", which YOU made up for them.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        tagged in the USSR, but ended up in Russia. Stop already.

                        You created internationalists at the expense of the Russian people and the Russian state, and raised Nazis and enemies to the detriment of the Russian people and their state.
                        What else do you want to cut off “friends” from Russia? Stop already!
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 January 2018 16: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The tragedy, yes, but it was laid down in 1922, when Russia was cut open in a living way, having given its indigenous parts to some Ukraine and other republics. "Here and it" exploded. "

                        The creation of the USSR in 1922 is not the cause of the collapse of the country in 1991.
                        The collapse of Russia occurred after February 1917, when the overthrow of the tsarist regime. All the outskirts began to move and began to determine themselves. In 1922, it was not possible to collect the former lands of the Russian Empire into a voluntary Union. It was possible to collect those where the Soviet power won. So thanks to the Bolsheviks, we had a great state of the USSR. But inside the country there were many bark beetles who did not like Soviet power, and they greatly contributed to its degeneration. And as soon as it weakened, and it weakened due to the fact that its core was pulled out of Soviet power - the dictatorship of the proletariat-the outskirts again began to move, because there was no one to fight with nationalism. If the dictatorship of the proletariat were preserved in the USSR, then no collapse of the USSR would have occurred.
      4. Diminisher
        Diminisher 11 January 2018 11: 01
        +7
        > And the Bolsheviks invited them. The name Russia was thrown off the map of the world by the Bolsheviks for 70 years.

        Wow, another alternative story from Olgovich? Cute.
        But only you please provide the documents: who, how much and where.
        And yes, the songs of those times all perfectly say who was for Russia with all his soul, and who perceived it as a resource.
        As there?
        English uniform
        Shoulder strap french
        Japanese tobacco?

        > Do not put an equal sign, the Russian people NEVER ANYWHERE Bolsheviks, did not choose and did not instruct ANYTHING!

        Oh, so White was assigned, right?
        But for some reason, the story here is such that the Bolsheviks won, and for the most part the whites either adopted the new system (Slashchev, for example, well, or Ignatiev's “Red Count”, surprisingly, right?), Or hated “” and wished with all their heart the death of Bolshevik Russia (after all, how, they, the upper class, were kicked out of the country!! Unforgivable! We must go to war on them all over Europe!)

        > Denikin and Kolchak clearly indicated their goals: To overthrow the power of the Bolshevik usurpers in order to return power to the PEOPLE, which he will express through elections to the Constituent Assembly.

        Firstly, what prevented these people who opposed the Bolsheviks from trying to talk to them? Or even get into power? By the way, an amazing thing, many officers were released under the "honest officer", and they did as they did after a while. Well, they keep their words, right?
        Secondly, to return power to which people? Bourgeois?
        And yes, unlike the whites, the reds did not chat in these Constituent Meetings, but began to really work. Of course there were mistakes, but things have moved forward.

        Strange thing, you actually live on the legacy of the country of the Soviets, but you don’t have gratitude for this, just stupid malice and a game of distorting the facts.

        PS I won’t argue with you anymore, it’s pointless. Otherwise, it will be like trying to shout to the deaf and blind.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 January 2018 12: 03
          +7
          Quote: Diminisher
          WowAnother alternative story from Olgovich? Cute.

          Comrade Hillary? I do not recognize you in makeup lol
          Quote: Diminisher
          But only you please provide the documents: who, how much and where

          "Itself, itself!" (C) yes Yuriev, Trotsky, Murmansk-read themselves
          Quote: Diminisher
          But for some reason, our history is such that the Bolsheviks won )

          for today State Flag of Russia with Double-headed Eagle- take a look! yes
          Quote: Diminisher
          Firstly, what prevented these people who opposed the Bolsheviks from trying to talk to them? Or even get into power?

          belay
          What's wrong with you?! belay The Bolsheviks themselves did not intend to talk to anyone or share power — read their documents. Look at the US-there could solve everything!
          Quote: Diminisher
          Secondly, to return power to which people? Bourgeois?

          To the people of Russia through the UNIVERSAL EQUAL SECRET ELECTIONS. What is not clear? request
          Quote: Diminisher
          And yes, unlike the whites, the reds did not chat in these Constituent Meetings, but began really workb. Of course there were mistakes, but things have moved forward.

          DEindustrialization has occurred. Hungry-wild (in the PMV-was not). Inflation is tens of thousands of times. "Hard workers", yes! fool belay
          Quote: Diminisher
          Of course, you live essentially on the legacy of the country of the Soviets, but you don’t have any gratitude for it, just stupid malice and a game of distorting the facts.

          I live on a legacy millennial RUSSIA. There was, is and will be such a country as it is not unpleasant for you.
          Quote: Diminisher
          PS I won’t argue with you anymore, it’s pointless. Otherwise, it will be like trying to shout to the deaf and blind.

          Do not with me argue: You argue with primary sources and documents, facts.
          And empty crackling is not interesting to me either.
          1. Diminisher
            Diminisher 11 January 2018 13: 03
            +6
            How nice that you went around some points in my comment. It can be seen that there is no objection to them. wink
            Oh yes, “hunger and deindustrialization” - everything is fine in this moment: both the inability to see the cause and effect, as well as the identities of those who started all this (I’ll tell you in secret, it’s only ts-s, it was White who became the root cause of such a devastation).
            Oh yes, you will not get links to documents from you, except for a couple of extremely doubtful, from a historical point of view.
            However, as I already understood, it is useless to argue with most monarchists (like liberals, as you can clearly see from your commentary). In their behavior, they strongly resemble the Sharikovs.
            After all, they are right, but the Communists are not!
            Sorry for them, mired in their own malice. negative
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 January 2018 14: 36
              +5
              Quote: Diminisher
              How nice that you went around some points in my comment. It can be seen that there are no objections

              belay
              Quote: Diminisher
              Oh yes, “hunger and deindustrialization” - everything is fine in this moment: and inability to see cause and effect

              Before the Bolsheviks, they were NOT. There were difficulties and hardships of wartime, but there was no mention of a catastrophe of the spring 1918 sample.
              Quote: Diminisher
              Oh yes, from you links to documents You will not get it, except for a pair of extremely doubtful, from a historical point of view.

              I promised you nothing.request "Itself, itself!" (C) yes
              Quote: Diminisher
              However, as I already understood, it is useless to argue with most monarchists (like liberals, as you can clearly see from your commentary). In their behavior, they strongly resemble the Sharikovs.
              .
              Professor Preobrazhensky, you ?! belay lol And why do you know so little about our Motherland, "professor"? No.
              Quote: Diminisher
              After all, they are right, but the Communists are not!

              The Communists were always “right” at one time — until about 1985, when they alone spoke. But when other people, and, most importantly, DOCUMENTS, got the right to speak, their innocence turned out to be something else in many ways.
              Quote: Diminisher
              Sorry for them, mired in their own malice.

              Well you, what malice? lol Losers are angry. And your idols are clearly NOT "lucky."
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 01: 40
            +4
            Quote: Olgovich
            The Bolsheviks themselves did not intend to talk to anyone or share power — read their documents.

            Dear, pay attention, in your training manual pages are torn out. Otherwise, you would know that initially in all structures of Soviet power there were officially representatives of other parties: anarchists, Mensheviks and left Social Revolutionaries, etc. Then, when these parties discredited themselves with anti-Soviet activity, these parties were not officially included, but their former members continued to work.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 12 January 2018 09: 58
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              and etc.

              Decrypt, dear lol At the same time, the first composition of the SNK on October 26, take a look, an expert on "pluralism" lol
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Then, when these parties discredited themselves as anti-Soviet activities, these parties were not officially included, but their former members continued to work.

              Continued, yes, until 28-38 years. Then they went on a “vacation" - to Butovo, etc. fool
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 00: 41
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                At the same time, the first composition of the SNK on October 26, take a look, an expert on "pluralism"

                Still, find the torn leaflets and read that at the Second Congress of Soviets seats in the Council of People's Commissars were offered to other parties, but their representatives refused. But in all other state structures they began to work. But when they began to openly harm them, they "asked to go on vacation" so that they would not interfere with building socialism.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 January 2018 10: 18
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  at the Second Congress of Soviets, places in the Council of People's Commissars were offered to other parties

                  Do you have a lie or illiteracy? I think that both are: Mensheviks, Right SRs, Bund delegates в Bolsheviks left protest against the uprising Congress and boycotted his work. And, accordingly, they did NOT offer ANYTHING.
                  What kind of beast, by the way, is the "2 Congress of Soviets"?
                  Legal All-Russian Central Executive Committee 1of the Congress of Soviets, seeing how the Bolsheviks invited only OUR friends of the Bolsheviks, made a clear definition:
                  The Central Executive Committee considers the II Congress failed and considers it as a private meeting of the Bolshevik delegates. Decisions of this congressas illegalCentral Executive Committee announces optional for local Soviets and all army committees

                  You here made a coup and illegal capture. But about the will of the people, to speak in this case, is FUNNY
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 13: 51
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Do you have a lie or illiteracy? I think that both of them: the Mensheviks, the Right Socialist-Revolutionaries, the Bund delegates, in protest of the uprising of the Bolsheviks, left the Congress and boycotted his work. And, accordingly, they did NOT offer ANYTHING.
                    What kind of beast, by the way, is the "2 Congress of Soviets"?

                    What school did you attend, dear? The Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies was held on October 25-27, 1917 according to the old style. Representatives of these parties were invited to participate in the government, but they left and refused. This is their personal grief, the honor would be offered.
                    There is nothing ridiculous in the taking of power by the Soviets, this is an event of world significance. One you do not understand.
                    Rebuild, stop suspecting everyone of lies. Go to Nice to relax, they say the weather is nice.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 January 2018 16: 34
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      What school did you attend, dear? The Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies was held on October 25-27, 1917 according to the old style. Representatives of these parties were invited to participate in the government, but they left and refused. This is their personal grief, the honor would be offered.

                      They left BEFORE the formation of tons. "governments" in protest against the coup and no one, of course, did not offer them anything.
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      There is nothing ridiculous in the taking of power by the Soviets, this is an event of world significance. One you do not understand.

                      Once again: NOT the authorities took the advice, but the Bolsheviks. The All-Russian Central Executive Committee did NOT recognize the "congress" as the Congress of Soviets in view of frauds inviting only its deputies. Peasant Councils (85% of the country) REFUSED to participate in the "congress".
                      Learn, tired of telling you a story-read yourself! and not only owl textbooks for 2nd grade
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 22: 55
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Once again: NOT the authorities took the advice, but the Bolsheviks. The All-Russian Central Executive Committee did NOT recognize the "congress" as the Congress of Soviets in view of frauds inviting only its deputies. Peasant Councils (85% of the country) REFUSED to participate in the "congress".

                        1. With this comment you reminded me of Ukrainian nationalists who stubbornly do not want to see that Crimeans voted to join Russia, and believe that the "green men" have selected him. So you repeat that the Bolsheviks, like aliens from outer space, seized power.
                        2. The peasant soviets in December recognized Soviet power and joined forces with the soviet of workers and soldiers ’deputies. Because the Bolsheviks complied with their mandate about the land.
                        3. Soldiers 'deputies - for the most part peasants are dressed in soldiers' greatcoats. So read the Soviet textbooks, they, in addition to history, also teach to think.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 January 2018 08: 47
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      1. With this comment you reminded me of Ukrainian nationalists who stubbornly do not want to see that Crimeans voted to join Russia, and believe that the "green men" have selected him. So you repeat that the Bolsheviks, like aliens from outer space, seized power.

                      Hesitates-get baptized: compare the POPULAR vote in Crimea with the seizure of power as a result of an armed coup and fraud — what degree of cynicism is necessary? belay
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      2. The peasant soviets in December recognized Soviet power and joined forces with the soviet of workers and soldiers ’deputies. Because the Bolsheviks complied with their mandate about the land.

                      -more than half of the Congress spat on the Bolsheviks, but the Bolsheviks recognized the second part and achieved "unity".
                      What are the “tips” by the way? WHO, WHERE and HOW did I choose? In secret, general, direct and free elections? No? So let these so-called forests go "chosen ones." All.
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      . Soldier deputies - most of them are peasants dressed in soldiers' greatcoats. So read the Soviet textbooks, they, in addition to history, also teach to think.

                      Not all of the Bolsheviks supported the soldier councils; they were not invited. Do not read Soviet textbooks - knowing only them looks completely ignorant. By the way, you don’t know them either.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 January 2018 22: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Do not read Soviet textbooks - knowing only them looks completely ignorant. By the way, you don’t know them either.

                        Each has their own textbooks, I have Soviet ones - you have Goebbels.
      5. Luga
        Luga 11 January 2018 15: 02
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        Denikin and Kolchak clearly indicated their goals: To overthrow the power of the Bolshevik usurpers in order to return power to the PEOPLE, which he will express through the elections to the Constituent Assembly.

        Still, Olgovich, you are an idealist and romantic.
        I honestly do not really like to participate in disputes about the events of 1917 and subsequent years, although I have a firm position on this issue. I do not like it when they pour mud on both the Romanovs and the Bolsheviks, but I support, most likely, the latter, although this is not the point.
        The most odious leaders of the White movement, in my opinion, were just as deceitful, cynical and obsessed with a desire for power as Lenin and the company. It is not necessary to idealize them solely on the basis that they fought with the Soviet regime. They were also cruel, deceitful, power-hungry, conceited and illegible in methods, like their opponents. It’s just that Lenin’s comrades were more flexible, and smarter, so he managed to keep the power.
        Well, as for the Constituent Assembly ... Is it possible to still believe in this democratic dream, legend, fairy tale? Personally, I can’t imagine such a meeting that really can reflect the will and interests of the peoples. The more educated, whom the minority will confuse, deceive the less educated, and the rich, who are also the minority, will buy the poor, as a result, any, absolutely any such meeting will act in the interests of the minority, with this, I think, you will agree. And if so, then assuming that the representatives of the political elite of our country at that time were so naive that they thought otherwise, you simply insult their mental abilities.
        Quote: Olgovich
        And they agreed in advance with ANY choice.

        This would perfectly characterize them from a moral point of view, if at the same time they would be ready to completely abandon the development of a decision on choice, about attempts to influence this choice. But from a political point of view, such a strategy is simply suicidal and doomed to failure. A person who has assumed responsibility for the fate of the country does not have the right to do so. Of course, they planned and would be able to impose their will on the constituent assembly, and this, if better than simply dispersing it, is not much.
        And the reasons for the war lie in the fact that as a result of the policies of the previous authorities, the society was split so seriously that the opposing parties simply could not come to any compromise and in order to achieve stability some of these parties had to be weakened so as not to be able to to show serious resistance.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 January 2018 15: 43
          +5
          Quote: Luga
          Still, Olgovich, you are an idealist and romantic.

          No.
          Quote: Luga
          The most odious leaders of the White movement, in my opinion, were just as deceitful, cynical and obsessed with a desire for power as Lenin and the company.

          Neither Denikin nor Kolchak did not want the authorities and were weighed by it: they were military, not politicians.
          Quote: Luga
          They were also cruel, deceitful, power-hungry, conceited and illegible in methods, like their opponents.

          It does not go to any comparison.
          Quote: Luga
          It’s just that Lenin’s comrades were more flexible, and smarter, so he managed to keep the power.

          More cruel, cynical and deceitful, the mind did not smell there: to do this with the country!
          Quote: Luga
          Well, as for the Constituent Assembly ... Is it possible to still believe in this democratic dream, legend, fairy tale? Personally, I can’t imagine such a meeting that really can reflect the will and interests of the peoples. The more educated, whom the minority will confuse, deceive the less educated, and the rich, who are also the minority, will buy the poor, as a result, any, absolutely any such meeting will act in the interests of the minority, with this, I think, you will agree.

          Mankind hasn’t come up with anything more perfect, but there is a desire for a better one: otherwise, it would still be figured out on clubs with whom to rule in the tribe. . It was the ONLY way out of avoiding gr. war-sit down and agree-with all the shortcomings indicated by you: the main thing is that EVERYONE accepts his decisions, and any dissenting ones are forced to obey. So they live. But in the world!
          Quote: Luga
          This would perfectly characterize them from a moral point of view, if at the same time they would be ready to completely abandon the development of a decision on choice, about attempts to influence this choice. But from a political point of view, such a strategy is simply suicidal and doomed to failure. A person who has assumed responsibility for the fate of the country does not have the right to do so. Of course, they planned and would be able to impose their will on the constituent assembly, and this, if better than simply dispersing it, is not much.

          They wanted to give responsibility for the country to give CSS: they were just honest officers who were forced to engage in politics.
          Quote: Luga
          And the reasons for the war lie in the fact that as a result of the policies of the previous authorities, the society was split so seriously that the opposing parties simply could not come to any compromise and in order to achieve stability some of these parties had to be weakened so as not to be able to to show serious resistance.

          There was a world war. Weakened the country. And split the society in such conditions, take advantage of weakness, call for Gr. war is a crime.
          1. Luga
            Luga 11 January 2018 17: 17
            +3
            And yet you are an idealist romantic, I'm not mistaken smile
            There is no healthy cynicism and pragmatism in you, but there is a deep faith in the sanctity and purity of the intentions and thoughts of your heroes. You look like this, don’t be offended by the Bolsheviks you hate (of course, young, from the lower level), rather, even Komsomol members who fought for "happiness for all for nothing and let no one go offended."
            By the way, a very dangerous breed of people. Cynics and pragmatists see obstacles and balance their actions with these obstacles; they may doubt, change plans, even abandon them. Ideal romantics, clear-eyed rebels, messiahs, convinced of their righteousness, see no obstacles, no doubt, a rod for a break and, as a rule, die. But if they win, write is lost. With a wave of their hand, in the name of their ideals, they shed rivers of blood, without any doubt or remorse.
            Tell me, what would you personally do with the dirty commies-Bolsheviks who fell into your hands with weapons in their hands or without them, with propaganda materials, these Moscow proletarians and St. Petersburg sailors, who for some reason ended up together in the Ural or Don steppes ( what should they do here?) with red stars on caps and caps, besides singing the international? What would you do with them? Just honestly?
            You are an idealist, Olgovich. Idealist and romantic, do not deny. smile hi
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 12 January 2018 10: 18
              +1
              Quote: Luga
              There is no healthy cynicism and pragmatism in you, but there is deep faith in the holiness and purity of the intentions and thoughts of your heroes.

              I do not believe in anything or anyone. The knowledge of these people gives me reason to say what I say about them: if they were more flexible and compromise, they could achieve much more.
              But they did not backtrack from their principles about United and Indivisible Russia. Although tactically and temporarily, maybe it would be necessary ....
              The Bolsheviks, however, gave everything to everyone, left and right, just to rule: "And hang ... We will hang, then!"
              Quote: Luga
              Tell me, what would you personally do with the dirty Bolshevik commies who fell into your hands with or without weapons, with propaganda materials, these Moscow proletarians and St. Petersburg sailors who, for some damn thing, ended up together in the Ural or Don steppes (what should they do here?) with red stars on caps and visors, besides singing the international? What would you do with them? Just honestly?

              I would have influenced them in Izhevsk and Votkinsk proletarians People's army. Those, too, loved to sing the international when they beat the Bolsheviks. And what?

              Now I will ask the question: WHAT would you propose instead of the Constituent Assembly? Still, battles on clubs? yes
              By the way, I note that the elections to it, at that time, were recognized as the most free and perfect in the world (for example, the participation of women).
              1. Luga
                Luga 12 January 2018 18: 45
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                WHAT would you suggest instead of a Constituent Assembly?

                Exactly what the Bolsheviks proposed. Tips. The house is built from the foundation, and not from the roof. And power needs to be built from below. I completely refuse legitimacy to the Assembly for the reasons stated above. In the form in which it was planned and implemented, without options, it would be an expression of the will of the big bourgeoisie and landowners, and not of the people, the vast majority of which were peasants, who were, in fact, a weak-willed mass in the political sense.
                And at that time (the end of the 1917-th), there was practically no power in the country, no matter how you deny this thesis, disorder with reeling intensified exponentially. And the fact that such a force was found that managed to restore order in the country, I believe, is simply salvation for Russia. And I personally am deeply indifferent to the nature of this force and the ways in which it made its way to power - not to fat. The country had to be saved and it was saved. The Bolsheviks. Despite all the efforts of various political forces to prevent this, including by unleashing a civil war.
                I know that you will not agree with me, your right. You asked - I answered. I don’t want to enter into the discussion.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 January 2018 10: 40
                  0
                  Quote: Luga
                  Exactly what the Bolsheviks proposed. Advice. The house is built from the foundation, and not from the roof.

                  The foundation is ELECTIONS — universal, secret, equal, free.
                  Tips are indirect, not universal, secret, NOT free. Tens of millions of citizens of the country remained OUT of the process of choosing power, especially the peasants you care about ..
                  Quote: Luga
                  In the form in which it was planned and implemented, it would, without options, be an expression of the will of the big bourgeoisie and landowners

                  ELECTIONS were held, at which the people said their word and it was accepted by ALL, including and the Bolsheviks (first). The Soviets are NOT the power of the working people, especially the peasants.
                  Quote: Luga
                  And at that time (end of 1917) there was practically no power in the country, no matter how you deny this thesis, disorder with reeling intensified exponentially. And the fact that there was such a force that managed to bring in the country order I think for Russia just salvation.

                  10 million civilian victims is salvation ?! Where is the order in the cemetery? What's wrong with you ?!
                  Quote: Luga
                  The country had to be saved and she was saved. The Bolsheviks.

                  Destroyed. Bolsheviks: see. What remains of Russia after their short reign — in 1991. And what remains of the Russian people.
                  Quote: Luga
                  Despite all the efforts of various political forces to prevent this, including by unleashing a civil war.

                  Before the Bolsheviks, the civil war was NOT and the people did not give them power. it datathat you cannot dispute
                  Quote: Luga
                  I know that you will not agree with me, your right. You asked - I answered.

                  You have nothing to argue with the FACTS, so the discussion doesn’t spoil.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 58
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The Soviets are NOT the power of the working people, especially the peasants.

                    On December 15, 1917, the Central Executive Committee of the II Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies united with the Central Executive Committee of the II Congress of Soviets of Peasant Deputies. ... Both the III Congress of Soviets, peasant deputies, and workers' and soldiers' deputies are combined into one III Congress of Soviets of workers, soldiers and peasants' deputies.
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 01: 51
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            There was a world war. Weakened the country. And split the society in such conditions, take advantage of weakness, call for Gr. war is a crime.

            Well, of course, the common people should continue to die for the interests of the parasitic noble and bourgeois elite, and should not dare to throw them off their necks. Only now, the people ordered in their own way, threw off the parasites, and there is no crime here.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 12 January 2018 10: 21
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Well, of course, ordinary people should continue to die for interests of the parasitic noble and the bourgeois elite, and should not have dared to throw them off his neck. Only now, the people ordered in their own way, threw off the parasites, and there is no crime here.

              President of RUSSIA: "There is NO difference between WWI and WWII, in fact, NO!"
              The people defended themselves against the German occupiers, friends of the Bolsheviks.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 00: 50
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                President of RUSSIA: "There is NO difference between WWI and WWII, in fact, NO!"

                He said this to reassure you, although he himself probably understands that there are no two absolutely identical events.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 January 2018 10: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  He said this to reassure you, although he himself probably understands that there are no two absolutely identical events.

                  Are you Putin ?! belay lol
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 04
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    He said this to reassure you, although he himself probably understands that there are no two absolutely identical events.

                    Are you Putin ?!


                    Dear, you think very badly about Putin.
                    Putin studied in Soviet times, then dialectical materialism was taught at universities, which teaches that in nature and in society there is not a single identical event.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 January 2018 16: 36
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Putin studied in Soviet times, then dialectical materialism was taught at universities, which teaches that in nature and in society there is not a single identical event.

                      "Essentially," Putin said. Open the dictionary Ozhegova.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 23: 14
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "Essentially," Putin said. Open the dictionary Ozhegova.

                        So then what are we arguing about? In essence, the First World War and the Second World War are wars for the redivision of the world. But everything else, especially for Russia and the USSR, is different. After all, every event has a form and content.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 January 2018 10: 41
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      So then what are we arguing about? In essence, the First World War and the Second World War are wars for the redivision of the world. But everything else, especially for Russia and the USSR, is different. After all, every event has a form and content.

                      I do not argue, for me and Putin, everything is obvious, for you, everything is dark.
                      He talked about the essence of wars for our country, and this essence is protection from the aggressor.
                      Putin about WWI: "Glory to the RUSSIAN WEAPONS! GLORY TO OUR SOLDIER_HERO!" Is this about redistributing the world? fool lol
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 January 2018 17: 10
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Putin about WWI: He talked about the essence of wars for our country, and the essence of this is protection from the aggressor . "Glory to the RUSSIAN WEAPONS! GLORY TO OUR SOLDIER_HERO!" Is this about redistributing the world?

                        It goes without saying that all the governments of the countries participating in the First World War told their people that they were defending their country, to tell the truth, that they want to expand their sales markets and redistribute the colonies, then none of the people will go to war.
        2. long in stock.
          long in stock. 11 January 2018 18: 31
          +6
          what good you are .. he is just a sick person. Novodvorskaya syndrome ..
      6. Looking for
        Looking for 11 January 2018 20: 26
        +4
        Your "idols" have already returned POWER TO THE PEOPLE in 1991. ALL RUSSIA IS 26 YEARS OLD AND DOES WHAT IT PARASITES !!!!! ON THE GREAT POWER OF THE GREAT UNION.
      7. Moore
        Moore 12 January 2018 05: 24
        +8
        Quote: Olgovich
        Tell us about the "battles" on the Bolshevik-French, Bolshevik-American "fronts" ...

        Is that why someone should educate you? Going to such a respected forum somehow you have to get ready? And then it becomes uncomfortable for the level of training of home-grown monarchists.
        So:
        1.February-March 18th - a ground battle near the Dniester River near the city of Rybnitsa, where about 6 troops of the Red Army, led by the former SR lieutenant colonel M.A. Muravyov utterly defeated superior forces Romanianthat occupied by that time almost the entire Bessarabian province (now the Republic of Moldova).
        2. In May-July 1918, during fierce battles near Bataysk and the Taman Peninsula, it was disrupted German offensive to capture the North Caucasus. During these battles on the Taman Peninsula, decisive counterattacks by units of the Red Army on June 14-16 blocked a German infantry regiment that landed there in 2.500 soldiers and officers with 150 machine guns and artillery. Having suffered heavy losses, the Germans on June 17 concluded a ceasefire with the Red troops there.
        3. The battle of October 9-15 around the Dushak railway station to the south-east of Ashgabat. Here, the offensive on the position of the Reds moved the group English troops of more than a thousand people. In its composition, it had the 28th light cavalry regiment (300 sabers), a battalion of the Punjabi infantry regiment, reinforced by a company from the Hampshire infantry regiment (a total of 760 people). Strengthening parts of this group: 12 guns, 40 machine guns, 1 plane.
        English and anglo-indian units (sepoys) here were supported by a group of White Guard troops located in Ashgabat of the Trans-Caspian government consisting of 1.800 bayonets, 1.300 sabers, 2 armored trains, 12 guns, 8 machine guns and 1 aircraft.
        During the four-day fierce fighting, the Anglo-White Guard troops managed to seize the Dushak station. But on October 14, the red forces launched a counterattack and by the end of the day on October 15 they again returned to their former lines of defense.
        During these weeks of fighting, the British lost half of their troops killed and wounded. As a result of this battle, the command of the British troops in Persia withdrew its armed forces from Central Asia.
        4.April 1919 in the Northern Black Sea Region french and greek troops. When the division under the command of a certain Grigoriev completely destroyed the Greek division in Nikolaev and Kherson, and then put to flight the group of French troops near Odessa, numbering in two settlement divisions.
        5.In January 1919, the 18th Infantry Division defeated the enemy forces in the distant approaches to Arkhangelsk in the city of Shenkursk, consisting of 500 Americans and Canadiansas well as 700 White Guards.
        6. During the battles of the Soviet and English fleets in the Baltic Sea, which initially began in the second half of November 1918, and then after clearing the Gulf of Finland from ice, they resumed in April 1919 and continued until the end of October of that year, losses the English amounted to 1 cruiser, 2 destroyers, 4 minesweepers, 6 torpedo boats and 1 submarine. Losses of the Baltic Fleet: 1 cruiser, 5 destroyers, 1 minesweeper.
        7. In the Far East, destruction in early June 1919 near the village of Krolevets became larger episodes of battles of red partisans with Entente troops Canadian 400 battalion, and June 23-27, 1919. Liquidation of the combined US-Japanese garrison in the mining village of Suchan, resulting in the death of 900 American and Japanese military personnel.
        Enough? Not impressive scale, not Verdun? Well, 3/4 of the Civil War consisted of such episodes.
        Olgovich, study military affairs in this way.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 12 January 2018 12: 13
          +2
          Quote: Moore
          Is that why someone should educate you? Going to such a respected forum somehow you have to get ready? And then it becomes uncomfortable for the level of training of home-grown monarchists.

          Calm, calmer, nice man, without a strain. yes Post someone else's nonsense, if only critically read before this, huh? lol
          Quote: Moore
          .In the Far East, the larger episodes of the battles of the red partisans with the Entente troops were the destruction in the beginning June 1919 at the village of Krolevets of the Canadian battalion of 400 people

          And here is the data of the CANADIANS themselves: For the entire time of their stay in Russia, the losses of Canadian CSEF units amounted to 19 people, dead due to illness and fatalities from accidents, as well as one case of suicide. lol And the last cops 5 June - already sailed home. From Vladik. Warheads left in April-May laughing You have died from fool merciless Bolsheviks.

          Quote: Moore
          .AT May-July 1918 during fierce battles under Bataysky and on the Taman Peninsula a German offensive was foiled in order to capture the North Caucasus.

          Bataisk-suburb of Rostov, which was WITHOUT a battle taken by the Germans 5 May. Red Command escaped in ... Tsaritsynthrowing part of the soldiers in Bataisk, where did they and .. fled lol "Defended" the Caucasus!
          Quote: Moore
          in the area of ​​the city of Rybnitsa, where about 6-strong red troops, led by the former SR lieutenant colonel M.A. Muravyov defeated the superior forces of the Romanians

          You should learn geography with history in order to know that Rybnitsa is on the LEFT bank of the Dniester, and the Romanians NEVER crossed it. lol
          From Ivan Vasilyevich, remember? "When you say, it feels like you, um, yes!"
          Quote: Moore
          Is it enough?

          Is it enough? laughing
          1. Moore
            Moore 12 January 2018 18: 45
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            Calm, calmer, nice man, without a strain.

            No tear, you are our dear monarchist.
            1.Danadians should I take for the ultimate truth? Those who were smashed by the Tsimukhinsky detachment and what was reflected in the documents of that time? There are no objections to the Suchan case?
            2. Go ahead. Do not tell me how many German units after the "drape" of the Red Army took the North Caucasus?
            3. Weak at the monarchist geographers with a history. Romanians twice tried to force the Dniester, both times received snot. It is from Muravyov and precisely from Rybnitsa.
            The rest did not raise questions? Beat, it turns out, and the British, French, and Greeks with the Japanese at the same time.
            Oh, learn the materiel ... You look, you’ll stop looking so stupid ... lol
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 12 January 2018 22: 21
              +3
              again, a man with a match with a crack of torn pants took his favorite position in a puddle ... the truth is he will rummage around now and say that it was not the Bolsheviks but the troops of the Odessa Republic they say ... but nothing.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 January 2018 12: 05
              0
              Quote: Moore
              1.Danadians should I take for the ultimate truth? Those who were smashed by the Tsimukhinsky detachment and what was reflected in the documents of that time? There are no objections to the Suchan case?

              No, I have to believe the liars who invented ALL of their 70-year history. This is the lot of diots. yes Read: JE Skuce. CSEF Canada's soldiers in Siberia, 1918-1919. Those. You "killed" the interventionists when they already ... sailed on the ship home! fool
              Unclear?
              Quote: Moore
              There are no objections to the Suchan case?

              How not? belay 19 killed. NOT 900. Multiply by 50 and 100? "Battle," yes. lol Funny you, witnesses of Bolshevism.
              Quote: Moore
              2. Go ahead. Do not tell me how many German units after the "drape" of the Red Army took the North Caucasus?

              And how many of their parts occupied Moscow? lol Also, in your opinion, "protected", right? lol Do not tell me, by the way, WHY did they need the North Caucasus? EVERYTHING that they wanted and could, they took and the Bolsheviks gave them so and so. “Then” there were, by the way, white.
              Quote: Moore
              . Weak with monarchist geographers with a history. The Romanians twice tried to force the Dniester, both times received snot. It is from Muravyov and precisely from Rybnitsa.

              Weak with the knowledge of the “fighters” with the interventionists: the Romanians did NOT cross the Dniester.
              And in Bessarabia, everyone fought with the Romanians: old units, residents' squads, detachments. t.h. and the Bolsheviks.
              Quote: Moore
              The rest did not raise questions? Beat, it turns out, and the British, French, and Greeks with the Japanese at the same time.

              How didn’t it? You are all nonsense, it’s clearly said request Or I wait a lie to disassemble? This one:
              4.April 1919 in the Northern Black Sea region of the French and Greek troops. When the division is under command a certain Grigoriev completely destroyed the Greek division in Nikolaev and Kherson, and then put to flight the group of French troops near Odessa, numbering in two settlement divisions
              .
              Not a certain one, but a red divisor (already three months was red), and before that, he served the UNR, the Directories, he is also a sadist, cave Russophobe and anti-Semite, who killed thousands peaceful Russians and Jews. You have good “heroes”! Or is it not yours? lol
              In Kherson, Greeks SAMI surrendered because did not want to fight, he cut them ... and not a division fool , and several hundred. Nikolaev generally-NOBODY defended (you all "storm lol "). Allies of SAMI decided to evacuate Odessa (in elections in France, supporters of returning home won) and SAMI left.
              . They didn’t beat anyone, dear man. Nobody came to the war with you.
              Quote: Moore
              Oh, learn the materiel ... You look, so stupidly stop looking ...

              Alas, nothing will help you to look different: you believe the lies that were driven in 40 years ago. And this is a clinic hi
              1. Moore
                Moore 13 January 2018 12: 33
                +4
                Quote: Olgovich
                Alas, nothing will help you to look different: you believe the lies that were driven in 40 years ago. And this is a clinic

                Yes, I am aware of the adherents of any sect, incl. It’s useless to explain to St. Nicholas’s witnesses. Dash their documents-say the Jewish Bolshevik propaganda.
                It is written by me, of course, in your address, but many have read it. The goal is achieved, the wretchedness of the arguments xs from where the neo-monarchist-Bulk-crunching people came from is shown perfectly.
                A materiel teach useful.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 January 2018 12: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Moore
                  Yes, I am aware of the adherents of any sect, incl. It’s useless to explain to St. Nicholas’s witnesses. Dash their documents-say the Jewish Bolshevik propaganda.

                  You do not have documents, that is the point: only one empty propaganda chatter,
                  Quote: Moore
                  It is written by me, of course, in your address, but many have read it. The goal is achieved, the wretchedness of the arguments xs from where the neo-monarchist-Bulk-crunching people came from is shown perfectly.

                  I agree: I have refuted, of course, your bullshit (and your teachers), but many have read it. The dull, dull lie of the resurrected sand-crunches of a heroic struggle with the whole world, subjected to dissection by the truth, narrowed down to the size of a stupid anecdote.
                  Quote: Moore
                  A materiel teach useful.

                  I can not give you the same advice: the line of non-return to normal perception - you, obviously, have long passed. Although, sheer nonsense you already- write to beware: about the Canadians, etc., the "assaults" of Nikolaevlol hi
    2. captain
      captain 11 January 2018 10: 31
      +2
      Quote: Vasily50
      It is necessary to know how the RUSSIAN EMPIRE fell apart.
      Here are just fans of * buns * will again convince the tsar of the tsar’s power and universal prosperity in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE, while lowering the lawlessness of more than 80% of the population and the periodic hunger of the peasants.
      The Bolsheviks managed to defend RUSSIA both from the interventionists and from those who invited these interventionists. Apparently, liberal democrats will never be able to forgive either the RUSSIAN PEOPLE or the Bolsheviks.

      Dear Basil50. Take an interest in what plan of the division of Russia the Americans brought to the Paris Conference following the results of the First World War. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised; it almost exactly coincides with the borders of the Russian Federation (in that regard, Crimea did not belong to us either). Doesn’t it seem strange to you that everything coincided with the US plans? It is so the Bolsheviks "defended Russia." And they ruined Russia, just according to the theories of Lenin.
    3. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 11 January 2018 10: 33
      +8
      "Knowing how to break up the RUSSIAN EMPIRE is necessary."
      The future comes from the past ...
      What the great said about those events

      Churchill on the White Army
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 15
        +7
        Quote: To be or not to be
        Churchill on the White Army

        said so because England and France considered the Bolsheviks accomplices of the Germans. And the White Army, in the eyes of Churchill, was a continuation of the Entente’s common cause in the struggle against the German bloc of powers. He was not interested in the internal affairs of Russia, but this is understandable, but the struggle with the Germans, which ended with the Bolsheviks seizing power for him, was “our business”.
        1. To be or not to be
          To be or not to be 11 January 2018 11: 26
          +8
          ... it was no longer 1914 of the 20th century ....
          And then there was the universal betrayal of the Emperor ...
          “The uncle of the Martyr Sovereign, Grand Duke Nikolai Mikhailovich, who was shot in Petrograd in 1919, left us in his notes“ How did they all betray him ”dated April 26, 1917, a very important testimony of those with whom it started the most popular abdication, here is what he wrote: “Within 48 hours, Nicholas II and his Spouse were abandoned not only by the highest dignitaries, the highest ranks of the Court and members of the State Council by appointment, but also by the entire large retinue, whose representatives thought only of differences or profitable places where you could, criticizing everything without a shadow of any embarrassment, indulge in an idle life.All these people, princes or counts, carriers of the most famous surnames: Kurakins, Baryatinsky, Obolensky, Gorchakovs, Trubetskoys, Shuvalovs - united, as if by magic , in one block with the upstarts presented by Grabbe, Knyazhevich, Sablins and a bunch of others, in order to loudly renounce their yesterday's benefactors. "
          https://www.zaweru.ru/monarhiya/1245-otrechenie-k
          to-kogo-predal.html
        2. Moore
          Moore 13 January 2018 05: 43
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          And the White Army, in the eyes of Churchill, was a continuation of the Entente’s common cause in the struggle against the German bloc of powers.

          But what about Mr. Krasnov with his Don army, supplied by the Germans and supported by the Germans ?? Were they not among the whites?
          Only after the revolution in Germany (November 1918) did Krasnov turn from a diligent Germanophile back into an ardent supporter of the Entente.
  2. kalibr
    kalibr 11 January 2018 07: 34
    +8
    Quote: Vasily50
    The Bolsheviks managed to defend RUSSIA both from the interventionists and from those who invited these interventionists.

    Manage, yes! But someone invited the interventionists in 91, someone attacked her? "Rushed tanks, raising the wind?" That is, then they managed, but in the 1991 year - no longer. And what bird is today on our denyuzhki whose flag is fluttering over the Kremlin? What White Guard armored train is the name of the ruling party in Russia? So what are you talking about? What forgiveness? It is important who won in the end! And what did the Bolsheviks lack in the 91? Missiles, tanks, crazy? Ah, they were no longer Bolsheviks! But then why not? Where did their Bolshevism evaporate? Ah, they "bought"! But then why did they “sell out”? Why, finally, we did not "buy" the top "there", but they were able to buy ours here? The end, crowned business, the end!
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 11 January 2018 08: 04
      +6
      The Bolsheviks in 1917 were themselves interventionists, and before them the Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Kerensky.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 11 January 2018 09: 02
        +2
        Quote: DalaiLama
        The Bolsheviks in 1917 were themselves interventionists, and before them the Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Kerensky.

        Do you know why the specter of communism roaming around Europe got caught in Russia? Because Bolshevism, defending the interests of the majority, in principle, could not take root in the society of individualists. In Russia, this teaching laid down on fertile soil. It is as if whoever said it, but the Old Believers, which for a thousand years could not be erased from the soul of the Russian people, in a sense, is communism.
        1. Dzmicer
          Dzmicer 11 January 2018 09: 28
          +7
          Bolshevism has set aside the interests of the majority, and minorities have won from it for some reason - this is fantastic! laughing
        2. karish
          karish 11 January 2018 10: 45
          +8
          Quote: Boris55
          Do you know why the specter of communism roaming around Europe got caught in Russia? Because Bolshevism, defending the interests of the majority, in principle, could not take root in the society of individualists.

          Europeans just turned out to be smarter.
          Quickly realizing what lies behind Bolshevism and all this komunyatsky rubbish.
          The result of this we see.
          To do this, you don’t need to strain.
          North Korea and Cuba are the remnants of the half-dead puny little body of communism.
          Do you miss the commies? You have where to go.
          Quote: Boris55
          . In Russia, this doctrine lay on fertile soil

          The people are simple-minded and trusting - the Earth - to the peasants, Factories - to the workers.
          They believed, got on face.
          Quote: Boris55
          It is as if whoever said it, but the Old Believers, which for a thousand years could not be erased from the soul of the Russian people, in a sense, is communism.

          What is it ?
          The Old Believers are Communists. laughing
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 11 January 2018 18: 36
            +5
            miss the monarchy? go to Lesotho. it will be great for you ... you missed democracy, go to Bangladesh or Afghanistan, for example .. there is democracy about all the glory ... well, peasants and workers, as you put it, got their faces. ?
        3. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 10: 56
          10
          Quote: Boris55
          Do you know why the specter of communism roaming around Europe got caught in Russia?

          Of course in the know. Because he was planted in Russia with an armed hand. With the active participation of foreign "internationalists":
          In November 1917 - January 1918 the following were created:
          * in Petrograd - the Finnish detachment of the Red Guard,
          * in Minsk - the Polish revolutionary battalion as part of the rifle regiment to them. Minsk Council of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies,
          * in Odessa - 2 Romanian revolutionary battalions ...
          A detachment of internationalists led by the Hungarian F. Omasta, the Germans I. Schneider and A. Shtiller took part in the defeat of the performance of the cadets in Irkutsk.

          An officer of the Austro-Hungarian General Staff Istvan Schwetzer on May 9, 1918 informed his command that by the end of March 1918 about 60 thousand Austro-Hungarian prisoners had entered the Red Guard in Russia, among whom the Hungarian element was significantly represented.

          According to information obtained by counterintelligence of the 4th Austro-Hungarian army, it was estimated that about 70 thousand Austrians, Hungarians and Germans were in Soviet units.
          According to the alleged data of the Austro-Hungarian High Command, from October 1917 to May 1918, 85 thousand Hungarians were at the disposal of the Bolshevik government.
          https://harmfulgrumpy.livejournal.com/754327.html
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 12 January 2018 09: 37
            +3
            https://harmfulgrumpy.livejournal.com/754327.html

            Followed the link a little further. Where did the information come from? http: //army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/intervent.php Oh, yes Ukrainian sites, this is a sea of ​​truthful information and mountains of pure truth! Well, there is another link. So what? Access to the resource at https://sputnikipogrom.com443/ limited by decision of the RF authorities: decision: 27-31-2017 / ID3165-17 authority: Prosecutor General, decision date: 05.07.2017 00: 00. Bingo the Lieutenant! Sources: one site is Ukraine, and the second site is closed by the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation. Source of inspiration: harmfulgrumpy - 799 place in the overall ranking! We are waiting, with Teterin and beyond, only the truth.
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 01: 55
        +4
        Quote: DalaiLama
        The Bolsheviks in 1917 were themselves interventionists, and before them the Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries and Kerensky.

        What a deep thought! This is a new turn in our history !. Nobody has said that yet!
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 12 January 2018 09: 25
          +1
          You have already been written about this many times.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 00: 53
            +2
            Quote: DalaiLama
            You have already been written about this many times.

            What are you saying? The first time I've heard. "The Bolsheviks in 1917 were themselves interventionists" - that's cool.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 13 January 2018 10: 57
              0
              you only wrote about it here for the second time.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 20
                +4
                Quote: DalaiLama
                you only wrote about it here for the second time.

                How could I miss such a deep thought? Only no matter how much you repeat it, it will not materialize, because no matter how you say "halva," it will not become sweeter in your mouth. Although, I forgot, you are Goebbels's pupil: slander, let something remain.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 15 January 2018 00: 54
                  0
                  you missed it again for the fourth time, which is not surprising because your grandfather learned to whistle at Bronstein himself at a rally with Ivanovo weavers.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 15 January 2018 21: 40
                    0
                    Quote: DalaiLama
                    you missed it again for the fourth time,

                    Well, well, dear, this means only one thing, that it’s not even a thought at all, and so ... your next sir ...
                    1. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 16 January 2018 00: 33
                      0
                      so you’ve gotten down to what even the intelligent radiant Bronstein didn’t teach your grandfather.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 16 January 2018 00: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: DalaiLama
                        so you’ve gotten down to what even the intelligent radiant Bronstein didn’t teach your grandfather.

                        Sorry dear, but I'm used to calling a spade a spade. There is no escape from the truth.
                    2. Dalailama
                      Dalailama 16 January 2018 00: 41
                      0
                      there is no truth in your comments, one Trotskyist whistle.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 11 January 2018 08: 42
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      Manage, yes! But someone invited the interventionists in 91, someone attacked her? ... And what did the Bolsheviks lack in the 91? ... Ah, they were no longer Bolsheviks! But then why not? Where did their Bolshevism evaporate? Ah, they "bought"! But then why did they “sell out”? ....

      Answers to your questions will be pulled by more than one article. In short, the Bolsheviks in the party ended when the CPSU (b) was renamed the CPSU (in the 1952 year). Then the Trotskyists finally seized power in the party and continued Trotsky’s work of spreading democracy, pah, communism throughout the world. Why did the people allow this to be done? And when did people ask? To begin with, Khrushchev repulsed all initiative from the people, Brezhnev - spoiled the people and prepared pro-Western managerial cadres about the Western elite, and Gorbaty and Yeltsin hammered the last nail into the coffin in the world's first state of workers and peasants.
      Today, in order to stop Russia on the path to gaining sovereignty and prosperity, the Trotskyist Communists slip Grudilin to us ... More at the very beginning of the video:
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 11 January 2018 10: 17
        +6
        You wrote well! It remains to solve the main question - does this mean that the system was so poorly designed that it allowed to do all this? Why didn’t we do the same with the + sign for “them”?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 11 January 2018 12: 28
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          It remains to solve the main question - does this mean that the system was so poorly designed that it allowed to do all this?

          For this they needed 40 years (from 53 to 93).
          Quote: kalibr
          Why didn’t we do the same with the + sign for “them”?

          All problems in the social countries and with whom parties in other countries began after the assassination of Stalin, right up to the armed confrontation on Domansky.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 12: 39
            +6
            Quote: Boris55
            All problems in the social countries and with whom parties in other countries began after the assassination of Stalin, right up to the armed confrontation on Domansky.

            Tell me, what kind of system is this that is tied to the leadership of one person without the possibility of political continuity?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 11 January 2018 12: 42
              +2
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Tell me, what kind of system is this that is tied to one person’s leadership?

              This system is called - the state. All in the world of the state are built on the same principle - on the principle of the pyramid.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 14: 55
                10
                You do not seem to understand my question. In normal states, the death or expiration of the term of the leader of the state does not entail catastrophic consequences (excluding an open coup with repression in the power apparatus). And according to your words, it turns out that in the Dzhugashvilevsky USSR the normal functioning of the state was tied to one person — Joseph Dzhugashvili, who was unable to prepare a successor for himself or to assemble an sensible team of managers. Without it, the state was immediately attacked by certain “Trotskyists”, which led to the collapse of statehood. In normal states this does not happen.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 11 January 2018 15: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  In normal states, the death or expiration of a leader of a state does not entail catastrophic consequences

                  What is the difference between “normal” states and Russia. The difference is that in “normal” states, society does not influence the government in any way - whoever the oligarchs appoint will be. Therefore, in the West, stability, but do not relax, after the collapse of the USSR, the West, as a window of prosperity - collapses. There is no need for capitalists to feed parasites.
                  In Russia, politicians rule whom, unlike the "manager" appointed by the oligarchs, the people can somehow influence. That is why so much depends on who is at the top.
                  We have more democracy. In the West, there is only one appearance of it.

                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Without it, the state was immediately attacked by certain “Trotskyists”,

                  Why some? They were in the party before 85%. Trotsky fled to Turkey only in the middle of the 30th. His followers are still in power.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 11 January 2018 16: 40
            +2
            That is, killing one person can change the whole system in our country? And how many presidents have been killed in the US, and what has changed?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 11 January 2018 18: 26
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              That is, killing one person can change the whole system in our country? And how many presidents have been killed in the US, and what has changed?

              Such as Ivan the Terrible, Stalin and Putin - no doubt! Denying the role of personality in history is foolish.
              They are ruled by managers appointed by the bourgeoisie as presidents. Regardless of the name of the "manager", he will fulfill the will of the owners. This ensures the appearance of stability in the West, not counting periodic crises.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 11 January 2018 19: 28
                +3
                But not a single crisis there led to the collapse of their statehood.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 11 January 2018 20: 11
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  But not a single crisis there led to the collapse of their statehood.

                  The purpose of their crises is not to destroy, but to prevent the dream of millions from becoming millionaires come true. Slaves must plow sutra until night for a pipe dream. Zeroing the income of slaves spurs them to even greater productivity.
                  We are talking about a change in the social system, and this is a completely different calico.
                  1. kalibr
                    kalibr 11 January 2018 21: 56
                    +3
                    What is different, when the state eventually collapsed, and the slaves both plowed and plow again ... And I will tell you more, they always plowed "uncle" and will plow, because no revolution will liberate the slave. Slave is a biological concept. The absence of many congenital and acquired traits. It seems like a down. Only down has everything written on his face, but for a slave ... outwardly, he doesn’t really show it.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 02: 03
                      +4
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Slave is a biological concept. The absence of many congenital and acquired traits. It seems like a down. Only down has everything written on his face, but for a slave ... outwardly, he doesn’t really show it.

                      Strong is a former teacher of History of the CPSU; he serves well the bourgeoisie.
                      So their slaves, so ... So as not to dare not that rebellion, but even to think about it, ONLY ELECTED, ONLY ELITE have the right to live well.
                      Does this ideology remind you of anything?
                    2. Boris55
                      Boris55 12 January 2018 08: 59
                      +3
                      Quote: kalibr
                      ... Slave is a biological concept ...

                      God made everyone equal. As one song sang, they are not born soldiers, they become soldiers. Similarly, slaves are not born. The whole history of initial slavery speaks of precisely this.
                      What you preach corresponds to the ideology of fascism. Skulls when to begin to die?
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 11 January 2018 12: 21
        +6
        Quote: Boris55
        the Bolsheviks in the party ended when the CPSU (b) was renamed the CPSU (in 1952). Then Trotskyists finally seized power in the party and continued Trotsky’s work to spread democracy, pah, communism throughout the world.

        Not all killed? Oh no no no! request And how many more “Trotskyists” had to be killed for complete happiness? It seems that 70% of the participants in the Congress of Winners have eaten themselves. Was it 100%? But ... what about the Leader? request
        By the way, where did the true Bolsheviks go? after 1952, which, in your opinion, WERE in the majority before 1952? Evaporated instantly, as in 1991? Where?
        Some questions .... request sad
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 11 January 2018 12: 35
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          ... and where did the true Bolsheviks go after 1952?

          They are now. Neither every Bolshevik is a party Bolshevik nor every party Bolshevik.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 January 2018 15: 51
            +6
            Quote: Boris55
            They are now. Neither every Bolshevik is a party Bolshevik nor every party Bolshevik.

            You did not answer: WHERE have they gone after 1952? Before him, they were in the vast majority? Interrupted? Evaporated? Have you given up? Why?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 11 January 2018 20: 16
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              You did not answer: WHERE have they gone after 1952?

              If you read all my comments, you would surely find the answer to your question. I repeat for you. From 1953 to 1993 40 years. Two generations almost changed + the war took the very best. For comparison - Ukraine had much less time.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 12 January 2018 12: 20
                +1
                Quote: Boris55
                I repeat for you. 1953 years passed from 1993 to 40

                Well, I’ll ask you again: in 1953 WHERE did they, millions of millions, share ?!
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 12 January 2018 13: 07
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Well, I’ll ask you again: in 1953 WHERE did they, millions of millions, share ?!

                  Immediately - no where. Just as, after Trotsky’s flight, the Trotskyists, who constitute the overwhelming majority in the party after the war, didn’t go anywhere. It took them Trotskyists 40 years to return Russia to the path of capitalism.
                  The period when the Bolsheviks of the party was the majority, this is from 1924 (after the Stalinist set) and to the 44th. After the assassination of Stalin, all party meetings became closed, which allowed the Trotskyists, quietly from the people, over 40 years clear the party from the Bolsheviks.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 12 January 2018 14: 50
                    0
                    Quote: Boris55
                    . Just as, after Trotsky’s flight, the Trotskyists who made up after the war overwhelming majority in the party. when there was a majority of the Bolsheviks of the party, it was from 1924 (after the Stalinist set) and through the 44th.

                    Do you hear yourself? Those. the Stalinists were the majority from 24 to 44, the Trotskyites were in the minority), but suddenly, overnight, they became ... the majority after 44. belay HOW did they become .... majority ?! They beat them, beat them, but did they all multiply? AS? But what about the faithful Stalinists, declining? What, in the 44th year killed the Stalinists? Where did it go? Or were the Trotskyists killed less at the front?
                    Quote: Boris55
                    After the assassination of Stalin, all party meetings became closedthat allowed the Trotskyists to secretly from the people, 40 years to clear the party from the Bolsheviks.

                    What does "quietly" mean? Are communists at meetings not part of the people? Or is it not a part? request By the way, Khrushchev’s resolution on the cult of Stalin was adopted by the congress UNANIMOUSLY. And where is .... the Stalinists ?! request
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 12 January 2018 16: 57
                      0
                      Sorry, but I'm tired of repeating to you that this did not happen all of a sudden, but over the course of 40 years. Bye. hi
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 13 January 2018 12: 30
                        0
                        Quote: Boris55
                        Sorry, but I'm tired of repeating to you that this did not happen all of a sudden, but over the course of 40 years. Bye.

                        Well, yes: before 44g, the majority, after 44g, IMMEDIATELY, suddenly, a minority is your words ..
                        And you are not able to explain it. Which is natural. And he says that THERE was NOTHING, but there were BEFORE 44 and AFTER-the same Bolsheviks.
                        Rt
                        While
        2. captain
          captain 11 January 2018 12: 44
          +4
          Dear Olgovich. The fact that not all the participants in the congress of winners were killed, I personally am very sorry. These people have done so much evil to my homeland that they had to kill everyone. By their grace, hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of land and millions of Russians are now lost.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 January 2018 15: 49
            +4
            Quote: captain
            Dear Olgovich. The fact that not all the participants in the congress of winners were killed, I personally am very sorry. These people have done so much evil to my homeland that they had to kill everyone. By their grace, hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of land and millions of Russians are now lost.

            I agree with you, Yuri! Thanks to them, I have such a flag today and I live not in Russian Bessarabia, but in the never-existing Moldova.
          2. Dzmicer
            Dzmicer 11 January 2018 15: 52
            +5
            I do not agree. Not to kill, but to condemn and hang by the verdict of the tribunal.
    3. hohol95
      hohol95 11 January 2018 10: 57
      +3
      Dear Vyacheslav!
      By 1812, Napoleon did not have reliable sources of information about affairs in Russia and the Russian army (French intelligence officers complained about the "unsaleability" of the then elite)! Why, then, by 1914 did foreign intelligence get leverage over the tsar, the Romanov dynasty, government ministers and other "administrators"? Everything flows - everything changes!
      This happened with the nomenclature elite of the USSR!
      Can we make a claim to those who during the war "removed" the king (they would have waited for the end of the war) and plunged the country into the abyss of a power war in the vastness of our HOMELAND?
    4. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 11 January 2018 12: 26
      +7
      "And what did the Bolsheviks lack in the 91st?"
      But were they already communists?
      Or petty-bourgeois elements have long sucked the top of the CPSU and the state.
      The creeping counterrevolution from above ... the revolution of the bureaucratic stratum ...
      The official still needs a state. But. He is a direct threat to his state
      On the class struggle under socialism - different points of view
      http://maxpark.com/community/politic/content/2491
      673
    5. long in stock.
      long in stock. 11 January 2018 21: 52
      +6
      All right, Vyacheslav. The crown of business is complete. Therefore, autocracy and the nobility ended as a class. As they were not able to further manage and develop the state. As communists ended, they degenerated into opportunists like Olgovich and Rotmistra. Bolsheviks in Russia are the first test balloon. I don’t tell you how many empires and democracies in the history of mankind have sunk into oblivion and how much time it took for these state systems to come to a less stable existence. and communism is only the first steps. how to know which round the history will make ..
    6. Moore
      Moore 13 January 2018 12: 50
      +3
      Quote: kalibr
      It is important who won in the end!

      And who said that the result can already be summed up?
      The Bolsheviks evolved into individuals such as Alkaligula and Judas Mechny, why should they deny the possibility of their opposites appearing?
      But what color the flag and something is printed on coins is a secondary matter.
  3. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 11 January 2018 08: 10
    +8
    The texts of Mr. Samsonov with enviable regularity are exclusively disgusting, because there is no worse than that lie that is mixed with the truth.
    And the real Heroes of Russia, who opposed the criminal anti-people government of the red fanatics, terrorists and spies, have eternal memory and glory.
    1. VS
      VS 11 January 2018 08: 45
      10
      We’ll also put a monument to Vlasov - he also fought with bloody Stalinism - vile tricolor ??)))

      That is interesting - the adorers of the whites - AND YOU WHO WOULD YOU BE IN THEIR Racea - one and indivisible? SHOULD you give a bun crunch too, and jump in ball shoes with gadgets junkers at the governor’s ball? Al - how else would they crunch yet - in bast shoes and with wooden plow ??)) with three classes of church parish)))
      1. Dzmicer
        Dzmicer 11 January 2018 08: 55
        +7
        We’ll also put a monument to Vlasov - he also fought with bloody Stalinism - vile tricolor ??)))

        Only Soviet people can erect a monument to Soviet General Vlasov.
        That is interesting - the adorers of the whites - AND YOU WHO WOULD YOU BE IN THEIR Racea - one and indivisible?

        Free people, not state slaves, plowing in collective farm for "sticks", by the most impossibly taxed and levied, like my ancestors.
        in bast shoes and with wooden plow?

        with three classes of church parish)))

        The Soviet myth in the Soviet myth drives the Soviet myth.
        Russia was such a backward country with respect to the progressive first state in the world of both workers and peasants (the whole party elite — all workers and peasants, yeah) that it reached the 1913 level only in the thirties, if memory serves. And in terms of meat and milk consumption - God forbid in the 60s.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 11 January 2018 21: 59
          +6
          again, rehash olgovich ... so Vlasov and olgovich were Soviet officers and communists. Both joined the party with personal selfish convictions. Both are those whom all decent people despise, there is such a word -love. Just one is hanged the second while the sky smokes. but not for long .. with such anger he has little left. and now about consumption .. you personally find that secret report that Olga loves to refer to. and carefully read the numbers. you will find a terrible secret ... just read the text of the document itself from archive and not that pulled olgovich from the book of a hlevnyuk ...
      2. novel66
        novel66 11 January 2018 10: 25
        +3
        Oleg, right word, you’ll explain to them, I’m not trying anymore request
    2. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 08: 59
      14
      Jmicer Today, 08:10 a.m. New
      The texts of Mr. Samsonov with enviable regularity are exclusively disgusting, because there is no worse than that lie that is mixed with the truth.
      Disgust is the very existence of you and others like you.
      And your so-called “hero” went to rape and rob their own people, along with the interventionists, who, ahead of time, gave away all of Russia! You cannot say good “heroes”, exactly the same “heroes” marched under the flags of Nazi Germany to bring us “liberation”, exactly the same “heroes” are now outraging in Ukraine and the Baltic states. Nazi surrogate, he is in Africa a surplus.
      1. Dzmicer
        Dzmicer 11 January 2018 09: 09
        +8
        And your so-called “hero” went to rape and rob their own people along with the interventionists

        Can you cite the facts of "violence and robbery of your own people"?
        I can here: the Red Terror, collectivization, the great terror.
        Or call the battles of the red army with the interventionists? I guess not. Because they were not there.
        There is only endless lies justifying the crimes of the Bolsheviks against the Russian people.
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 09: 15
          11
          Do you need those facts? What facts do not bring you, you will scream that this is a lie and Soviet propaganda, as in that saying: you at least ((all God's dew is in your eyes ...
          About the battles of the red army with the interventionists, I am already higher than the same fool I wrote to Olgovich. Another libarastical trick, everything is just like the training manual. Then yesterday or the day before the article was about it. So also past the checkout, none of the NORMAL people will buy your frail tricks ... negative
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 05
            +6
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            About the battles of the red army with the interventionists, I have already written to the same Olgovich.

            And you write more. For example, I did not see these "facts". I’ll look with curiosity.
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 11: 10
              11
              Lieutenant Teterin Today, 11:05 ↑
              And you write more. For example, I did not see these "facts". I’ll look with curiosity.
              He who has ears, let him hear, he who has eyes, let him see, but this is clearly not your case. You, as I already wrote, at least ((all God's dew is in your eyes ...
              I'm just wondering, where did the interventionists go? Or were they not at all? What do they write about it in your parallel reality?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 32
                +6
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                He who has ears, let him hear, he who has eyes, let him see, but this is clearly not your case. You, as I already wrote, at least ((all God's dew is in your eyes ...

                Clear. You have no counterarguments; you have nothing to object to except general phrases. You are not the facts.
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                and where did the interventionists go?

                They solved their problems and went back. The British took out their military equipment in the North, which they wanted to protect from capture by the Bolsheviks and sailed away. Leaving the Northern Army of the Reds face to face with the Reds. Yes, and the British did not fight with the Bolsheviks, they more sat out behind the back of the Russian Northern Army. In the South - the same thing. The French withdrew their troops by decision of the 1919 Paris Peace Conference. Without the influence of the Bolsheviks.
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 11
        +7
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        And your so-called “hero” went to rape and rob their own people, along with the interventionists, who, ahead of time, gave away all of Russia!

        Are you probably talking about the Bolsheviks? Who sold for centuries accumulated works of art for the sake of the "world revolution"?
        471 items from the main assembly of the country were selected for sale abroad on February 14, 1928. Among the selected were 46 golden snuffboxes with stones, 14 trellises, 37 paintings, 133 engravings. Unfortunately, the first experience of selling collections was continued. Over the next few years, thousands of exhibits were sold from the Hermitage and other state museums. According to official figures, in the most "fruitful", 1930, the USSR sold 577 thousand paintings and other works of art abroad .... "For us it is more important," wrote Leon Trotsky, "to receive within 22-23 g. For a certain mass 50 million valuables than hoped to get 23 million in 24-75. The onset of the proletarian revolution in Europe, at least in one of the largest countries, will completely stall the value market: the bourgeoisie will begin to export and sell, the workers will confiscate, etc., etc. Conclusion: you need to rush to the last degree. "
        http://akostyuhin.livejournal.com/559169.html
        And as for violence against the people, it was not white, but red that was noted. Especially foreign mercenaries in the service of the Bolsheviks:
        The 1st separate Chinese detachment of the Cheka of the Terek Republic, commanded by Pau Ti-san.

        pau ti san.jpg
        In the Cheka, "migrants" held the highest posts

        This military formation "became famous" during the suppression of the Astrakhan uprising on March 10, 1919. Even against the background of red terror, the "Astrakhan execution" stood out for its unprecedented in its scope stiffness and insanity. It all started with the fact that the Chinese surrounded a peaceful rally at the factory entrance. After the workers refused to disperse, the Chinese fired a volley of rifles, then launched machine guns and hand grenades. Dozens of workers died, but as it turned out later, the violence was only gaining momentum.
        All day the Chinese hunted for men. The arrested were simply shot at first, then - for the sake of saving bullets - they began to drown. Eyewitnesses recalled how the arrested had their hands and feet tied up and thrown directly into the Volga from ships and barges. One of the workers who went unnoticed in the hold, somewhere near the car and survived, said that about one hundred and eighty people were dropped from the Gogol steamer in one night. And in the city there were so many executed in emergency commandant’s offices that they barely managed to take them to the cemetery at night, where they piled in piles under the guise of “typhoid”
        http://www.istpravda.ru/research/5598/
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 12 January 2018 07: 55
          +4
          http://akostyuhin.livejournal.com/559169.html

          Source: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3267085?utm_source=
          kommersant & utm_medium = all & utm_campaign = sp
          ec Excerpts: "The currency was sorely lacking. Despite the desperate resistance of the People's Commissar of Education Anatoly Lunacharsky, in 1928, the Soviet government adopted a decree on the sale of works of art abroad." And although the author directly says that the values ​​were needed for the "World Revolution", but if you read it carefully, you can see these passages: "Industrialization required western equipment and technology, and for this we needed a currency. Everything that was in any demand was exported .... Wood, and paintings by old masters, and furniture, and jewelry turned into equipment and technology "Suddenly, yes? But what about the" World Revolution? : "However, the era of museum sales was short-lived. It is difficult to say which of a number of reasons forced the authorities to stop trading in masterpieces. On the one hand, the inertial planned economy has finally begun to adapt to the new realities, and foreign trade plans have been adjusted. With another - economic isolation was a thing of the past The USSR, and the general growth of exports, allowed painlessly abandoning the sale of paintings. "Maybe someone will correct it, but how can you write it? On the one hand, the Bolsheviks sell the treasure to the capitalists in horror. On the other hand, it is written that the Soviet Union was not hiding by the authorities, "they needed a currency for the young country of the Soviets, which was under the most severe sanctions."
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 12 January 2018 08: 12
          +2
          http://www.istpravda.ru/research/5598/

          The link leads to the site "Historical Truth". Everything in the article by Vladimir Tikhomirov, from 03: 12 20 / 10 / 2016, is beautiful. And the corresponding posters of the white movement of the times of the Civil War and content. And here’s what they write on another site: “Vladikavkaz became the point of permanent deployment of the 1 separate Chinese detachment of the Cheka of the Terek Republic. This military formation compares favorably with many Terek Red Guard units with iron discipline. Somehow, Pau Tisan caught his fighters for a card game. The punishment immediately followed: the guilty were brutally punished, and this was enough to forget about the cards in the squad once and for all.The Chinese fighters were not seen at the flea market, but to the location of the squad itself, where exemplary order and numbers reigned ota, without proper authorization, even the emergency Commissioner was impossible to get the South of Russia, Sergei Ordzhonikidze. " “Here’s what Mikhail Lysenkov, the Red Guards of the Terek People’s Council detachment, recalled about those events:“ Being carried away by a stream of hastily retreating Red Guards, I became an eyewitness to the amazing composure of the Chinese ... The Chinese are a model of fearlessness and military business. Here he is, not paying attention to the people running past him, he quietly squats, puts zinc with cartridges on his side, slowly loads the rifle, carefully takes aim, shoots, carefully looks towards the shot - checks the result and methodically repeats everything new. No fear for our lives! We, chased by the White Guards, would have killed everything, but the Chinese would have saved us. They distracted the whites by sacrificing themselves. "Source: http://vvmvd.ru/menu2/history/interesno/ 2012 / 02 / 1
          6 / interesno_12.html Timur MAKOEV VV MVD / History / This is interesting.
  4. Nagaibak
    Nagaibak 11 January 2018 10: 09
    +4
    Alekseev was still a carrot.))) Misha had a tricky eye.))) He betrayed the tsar by his stupidity, then it dawned on what he had tried to play ... and the engine left.
    "Chief of Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief (since August 1915). General Staff Infantry General (September 24, 1914), Adjutant General (April 10, 1916).
    During the February Revolution (1917) he advocated the abdication of Nicholas II from the throne and his actions contributed to the adoption of this decision by the emperor. "
  5. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 10: 20
    +9
    The article is a fat minus for outright lies and fraud by the author of the facts.
    The author writes:
    The feudalists themselves opened the Pandora’s box, destroying all the bonds (autocracy, army, police, the old legislative, judicial and punitive systems) that held back the long-running contradictions and rifts in Russia.

    However, after the February coup all state and social institutions of the Russian Empire (with the exception of the autocracy) continued to operate. And the courts, and the laws, and the police, and titles, and awards. All this was banned not by the Februaryists, but by the Bolsheviks.
    Another phrase distorted by the author:
    "White" became the owners, the bourgeoisie, capitalists, landowners, their political superstructure - the liberal-democratic, bourgeois parties and movements

    The author, apparently, is not aware of the fact that the Volunteer Army originally gathered without any support from the political forces. Any. The officers who were indifferent to the fate of Russia simply gathered and began to gather at least some forces. Even the Army had to collect money from the world on a thread. If the White movement was initially supported by political forces and owners of significant financial sums, then a detachment of 4 thousand people would not have march from the Don, but a full-fledged army of a good hundred thousand bayonets, well equipped and equipped.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 11 January 2018 10: 31
      11
      Lieutenant Teterin Today, 10:20
      However, after the February coup, all state and social institutions of the Russian Empire (with the exception of the autocracy) continued to operate. And the courts, and the laws, and the police, and titles, and awards. All this was banned not by the Februaryists, but by the Bolsheviks.
      You are lying. Institutions, although they remained, but they were quickly blown away. By the summer of 1917, Kerensky and Co. pumped all that was possible, and by October the situation became generally critical. The Bolsheviks did not even have to make much effort to take power. She just lay under her feet, it was only necessary to pick up what they successfully did.
      If the White movement was initially supported by political forces and the owners of significant financial sums, then not a detachment of 4 thousands of people would go on a campaign from the Don, but a full-fledged army of a good hundred thousand bayonets, well equipped and equipped.
      If my grandmother had ****, then she would be a grandfather. No people were going to support the white movement and no one would have scored any hundred thousand bayonets. And your Dobroarmia was forced to shamefully flee from Novocherkassk because the Cossacks asked it “politely” from there. My tales fool you will comb your grandmother, who never became a grandfather ... laughing laughing laughing
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 11: 44
        +6
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        You are lying. Institutions, although they remained, but they were quickly blown away.

        Oh well. "Blown away," say? Then bring me at least one document of the Provisional Government abolishing the courts, the police or the provincial system of Russia. Can you? I predict not. Yes, the country was in a fever, but there were difficulties, but the authorities nevertheless functioned. Courts, governors, police, zemstvos - all these institutions worked in the same way as before the revolution. In the 17th century, during the Time of Troubles, the country was even worse off but no one says that the public institutions of that time "were blown away."
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        She just lay under her feet, it was only necessary to pick up what they successfully did.

        The phrase from the Bolshevik agitation. Power was not lying under anyone's feet. The Bolsheviks, simply seeing their defeat in the elections, propagandized the crowd with promises of a good life and staged an armed seizure of power. Something like the ISIS terrorist organization banned in Russia in the Middle East.
        Quote: Varyag_0711
        No people were going to support the white movement and no one would have scored any hundred thousand bayonets.

        Listen, do you read my comments at all? I wrote that if the author of the article was right and white financiers would support white, then the Dobrarmiya would be much larger initially and people would go for those who, in conditions of the devastation of the Bolshevik coup, would steadily pay money for the service. But Alekseev did not have this money, because none of the industrialists or landowners supported his organization.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 12 January 2018 07: 25
          +4
          bring me at least one document of the Provisional Government abolishing the courts, police or the provincial system of Russia.
          No, there were no such documents.
          Wikipedia: On March 4 (17), the Minister-Chairman and simultaneously the Minister of Internal Affairs, Prince G. E. Lvov, ordered the temporary dismissal of governors and vice-governors, temporarily assigning the duties of governors to the chairmen of the provincial zemstvo administrations and naming them “provincial commissars Provisional Government. " The chairmen of the county zemstvo administrations as the "district commissars of the Provisional Government" were assigned the duties of county police officers, while they also retained the general leadership of the authorities. The police were to be reorganized into the police.
          On March 4 (17), it was decided to abolish the special civil courts, security departments, and the Separate Gendarme Corps, including the railway police. The officers and lower ranks of the Separate Gendarme Corps (including the railway gendarme police) were required to immediately transfer the relevant military commanders for appointment to the army.
          On 17 (30) on April, the Provisional Government approved the "Provisional Regulation on the Police", fixing the legal basis for its activities. The commissars were instructed to direct the activities of the police in the provinces and counties. The principle of control in the police became one-man management. The chief of police (they were elected and dismissed by Zemstvo administrations from Russian citizens who reached the 21 year) solved the issues of staffing, their movement, determined the size of salaries, could impose penalties, form temporary staff. He was instructed to form an intelligence bureau (to combat criminal crime), which was then approved by the local people's government committee.
          Cities were divided into districts, districts into districts, districts into districts. Local governments elected the chiefs of the city, county, district, district police and their assistants. Control over the activities of the police was assigned to the police commissioners and their assistants who worked in each police station (they were appointed and dismissed by the Ministry of the Interior). The police commissioner was subordinate to the commissars of the Provisional Government and was responsible for the creation and operation of the judicial investigative commission to review the cases of all detainees for no more than a day and verify the legality of the arrests. Until the formation and transition to city government, the police were subordinate to the chairman of the executive committee of the people's power. The overall leadership of the country's police was assigned to the Ministry of the Interior. The system of state punitive bodies was thus destroyed, and its personnel were demoralized. The police did not have the necessary qualifications to cope with the task of maintaining order. The Provisional Government failed to create its own effective punitive apparatus.
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 12 January 2018 07: 37
      +4
      If the White movement was initially supported by political forces and the owners of significant financial sums, then not a detachment of 4 thousands of people would go on a campaign from the Don, but a full-fledged army of a good hundred thousand bayonets, well equipped and equipped.

      If yes. The campaign from the Don began because 4 thousand “volunteers” left the encirclement of the Red Army. Not when they were "to assemble a full-fledged army."
  6. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 11 January 2018 10: 21
    +3
    Whatever it was, the Russian people defended the right not to be identified with Bolshevism.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  7. Luga
    Luga 11 January 2018 12: 25
    +6
    And the masters of the West really “helped” - to rekindle the terrible and bloody civil war in which the Russians killed the Russians.

    Hmmm ....
    And in the XIII century. who helped ignite the "terrible and bloody civil war" in which they participated
    Late Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, heirs of Great Scythia, Aryan and Boreal world
    on the one hand and Russia on the other? Or is there something else, but I got the hell out of a carrot?
  8. hohol95
    hohol95 11 January 2018 13: 32
    +5
    I read the comments and understand - Civil War Continues ... recourse
    It is sad.
    And once again I ask a question - in foreign forums with the same “fire” opinions on the Great French Revolution are discussed and defended (or has it already been renamed a coup)?
    And what do they write about other TAM revolutions or upheavals ... on "import" sites and forums?
    Or are WE just “spitting poison” on rivals in disputes when discussing HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY ??? crying
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 11 January 2018 15: 49
      +9
      Alexei, I think, in the West, they also "spat at each other" if they were provoked by different people, like ours. Do you think this is zhzhzhzhzh, not casual? Deliberately, as if by a whistle, the same faces come out on different sites under different nicknames. They carry the same thing as a carbon copy, taking information from certain sites, coordinators. Do you think you are fighting with ideological opponents? Yeah, if there are any, then 1-2, no more. In principle, if it would not be a pity, it would be possible to determine this by activity, by the time of entry, exit from the site. They work as a "flock", each has its own role, "wise guy", "boor", "clown". Possible options. I personally calculated this specialization, somehow, with users under the Israeli flag from six months, if not more, back. But they mainly respond to "Jewish topics," everything about anti-Semitism. It is worth touching a really painful topic, one, second, third appears. I repeat, each with a clearly defined role. But they are visible, but those with tricolor became familiar, familiar, but the roles are the same, because they select them according to the same methods. Perhaps the "wise guy," aware of what and how, but not a fact. Take a closer look at today's company and try to guess which of them, there are not many of them today, "clown", "wise guy", "boor".
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 11 January 2018 16: 08
        +6
        With you coming drinks ! Yes, your truth! One song on the disc and the complete non-perception of the opponents of the discussion! drinks
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 11 January 2018 17: 05
          +4
          drinks Happy New Year! Life is an interesting thing, if you treat it from a cognitive point of view.
        2. Mikado
          Mikado 11 January 2018 17: 32
          +3
          if anything, the "clown" is me wink look at the avatar. yes Damn, I thought that this is exactly the discussion that will turn out. what I didn’t want to write until I saw you with the Good Doctor. drinks yes, and the battle continues again, and Lenin is so young! fellow laughing
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 11 January 2018 20: 49
            +7
            Good evening to all! And you, Alexander, doubt that it is for a reason zhzhzhzhzhzh? Of course, for good reason! After all, if something happens, it means that someone has taken care of it! So, the Socialist Revolution ------ is a really important topic that the enemies of the USSR are trying to slander, belittle, as the Socialist Revolution itself, and all the achievements of the USSR. They still need it, this is their struggle against the USSR, the Russian Federation, the Republic of Ingushetia, whatever you call it, against our Motherland and its entire population.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 11 January 2018 22: 08
              +4

              Right Dmitry! Enemies, enemies around ... Very true remark!
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 11 January 2018 22: 39
                +5
                Good evening, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Yeah, the poster is correct, but, as you know, simple, not high-level buggers are watched in the comments by Nikolai. (Mikado, then) I will expose the enemies. Although, of course, knowledge is not on the whole topic.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 11 January 2018 22: 45
                  +1
                  Yeah, the poster is correct, but, as you know, simple, not high-level buggers are watched in the comments by Nikolai. (Mikado, then) I will expose the enemies

                  So if a bugger is a bugger, that’s what you should call him, Dmitry! drinks but .. culturally.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 11 January 2018 22: 55
                    +4
                    Why call him, Nikolai? He already knows! It just has to be some kind of general program, and not a revelation ---- who is what the hell. After all, what ---- men can greatly decrease as a class. While the elite demonstrates bare backsides here and there.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 12 January 2018 00: 39
                      +1
                      While the elite shows naked buttocks here and there.

                      Are you talking about the scandalous ballet with the participation of "first persons" in the viewing? Theater to the theater of strife. For example, I don’t go to some theaters in St. Petersburg - the performances are weak. Well, up to the fact that the "elite" is present at this ... what can I say ...
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 13 January 2018 00: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: Mikado
                        Are you talking about the scandalous ballet with the participation of "first persons" in the viewing? Theater to the theater of strife. For example, I don’t go to some theaters in St. Petersburg - the performances are weak. Well, up to the fact that the "elite" is present at this ... what can I say ...
                        In addition to this ballet, Serebrennikov used to have other ones, as well, about which there are messages on the network, the ballet is not the first situation at all. Here was the last time I glanced briefly at the poster of Vyacheslav Olegovich, but now I see the text is suitable on the newspaper .... ..And ---- I don’t know how to ask ---- on a jacket, higher than a handle --- awards? Are they really reflected or not? How to find out?
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 11 January 2018 22: 27
            +6
            Good evening Nikolay! A peasant (older than me) worked with me and he loved in the 90s after a hard day and a lot of "relaxing" to ask a question in public transport (some kind of old woman or old man) -Lenin was YOUNG?
            And from his words, the bus (trolleybus, tram) exploded from emotions PRO and CONS! And he chuckled quietly and went out at his stop! In modern terms, TROLL is NOT FOR CHILDREN ... Until one case!
            One fine evening "lit a fire" of the next argument. quietly chuckled at the debaters ... But when he was about to leave one peasant with the words - you started a dispute, and you leave !!! - lit his fist in the eye ...
            Since then, he stopped his "trolling" in public transport!
            drinks
            For the fact that every "evil troll" encroaching on our history has overtaken the FIST of retaliation !!!
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 12 January 2018 00: 36
              +2
              But when he was about to leave one peasant with the words - you started a dispute, and you leave !!! - lit his fist in the eye ...

              the only smart one found. good I will support! drinks (cool told!)
    2. Looking for
      Looking for 11 January 2018 20: 51
      +2
      You are absolutely right. The civil war as it began in 1991 and continues to this day. BUT !!! so far in the minds.
  9. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 11 January 2018 14: 49
    +7
    hohol95, until January 1978, Pinochet was not a legitimate ruler. After the referendum on public trust, where 75% of Chilean citizens voted in support of it, we can talk about legitimacy. Yes, the results of the referendum can be questioned, but the Chilean people have not been protested.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 11 January 2018 15: 16
      +8
      Did American friends AUGUSTO think so? That without a referendum it is illegitimate? And other leaders of the countries of the prosperous Western world?
      I think they did not care! Then let's look at Luis Anastasio Somosa Debaile (November 18, 1922 - April 13, 1967) - President of Nicaragua from September 29, 1957 to May 1, 1963!
      The eldest son of dictator A. Somosa.
      He took office as president after the murder of his father, Anastasio Somosa.
      Legitimately took office or by DICTATORSHIP?
      Dad was killed - I'm the president !!!
      In 1963, wanting to “democratize” the regime’s façade, Luis Somosa held a “presidential election” by holding the presidency of Rene Schick Guttieres, the former personal secretary of his father, A. Somosa. L. Somosa himself actually continued to lead the country.
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 11 January 2018 21: 39
      +4
      and yet Pinochet was tried and convicted of the killings.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 12 January 2018 08: 34
        +2
        They tried to judge, but ... they did not have time to convict - DIED!
        In August 2000, the Chilean Supreme Court deprived Pinochet of senatorial immunity, after which he was prosecuted for more than 100 episodes related to the killings, as well as kidnapping and torture of people. However, in July 2001, the court recognized Pinochet as suffering from senile dementia, which served as the reason for his release from criminal prosecution.
        On August 26, 2004, the Chilean Supreme Court deprived Pinochet of immunity from prosecution, and on December 2 of the same year, the country's Appeals Court decided to start the trial of a former dictator accused of complicity in the assassination of former land forces commander General Carlos Prats.
        On January 21, 2005, Pinochet was charged with the murder in 1977 of members of the Left Revolutionary Movement, Juan Ramirez and Nelson Espejo.
        On July 6, 2005, the Chilean Court of Appeal deprived Pinochet of immunity from prosecution on charges of involvement in the destruction of political opponents of the regime under the so-called Operation Colombo (which was part of the large-scale Operation Condor).
        On September 14, 2005, the Chilean Supreme Court again deprived Pinochet of the immunity from criminal prosecution, which he used as a former head of state.
        On November 23, 2005, he was accused of corruption, and the next day - of involvement in the abductions and killings during Operation Colombo.
        On October 30, 2006, he was charged with 36 cases of kidnapping, 23 cases of torture and one murder at Villa Grimaldi.
        Pinochet was also accused of drug trafficking, arms trafficking and tax evasion [10].

        On December 3, 2006, Pinochet suffered a severe heart attack; on the same day, due to the danger of life, he was unified and communed over him. Died December 10, 2006 at the Santiago Hospital. According to reports, his body was cremated, there was no state funeral and mourning (he was only given military honors).
  10. RUSS
    RUSS 11 January 2018 18: 46
    +7
    The Bolsheviks illegally seized power through a coup, and it was they who started the Civil War.
    The Bolsheviks shed their first blood, resorting to terrorist methods to suppress dissent and opposition. In the first two months of their stay in power, on their conscience, the reprisal against the Supreme Commander-in-Chief General Dukhonin (the war with Germany is still officially underway - just like slapping Stalin in the summer of 1941!), Shooting from machine guns of a working demonstration in St. Petersburg on January 5, 1918, the beginning repressive work of the Cheka. Not to mention the beginning of the total robbery of entire classes and social strata of the population.

    In the first years of Soviet power, the Bolsheviks were not yet embarrassed to admit that it was they who had imposed the Civil War on the country, and even boasted about it.

    May 20, 1918, Y. Sverdlov, speaking at a meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, said: “Only if we can split the village into two irreconcilable hostile camps, if we can foment the same civil war there that took place not so long ago in cities ... only in this case can we say that in relation to the village we did what we could do for the cities. ”

    At the Third Congress of Soviets, Lenin also admitted this: "For all the accusations of a civil war, we say: yes, we openly proclaimed what no government could proclaim ... Yes, we started and are waging a war against the exploiters."
    1. Looking for
      Looking for 11 January 2018 21: 25
      +5
      Do not ascribe to Sverdlov the creations of American liars. Sverdlov died in 1918. at a time when the SELF-EXISTENCE of the Soviet Government was on the question. And about the statements of Lenin, DO NOT UNDERSTAND the meaning of the statement, do not bring it to FIG. The meaning is that for the first time in the history of mankind the opposing forces in the civil war there was not an exploiting class, as in England, the USA, France, but the antogonistic classes — the bourgeoisie and the nobility, on the one hand, the proletariat and the peasantry, on the other.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 11 January 2018 22: 40
        +5
        Quote: Seeker
        Sverdlov died in 1918.

        Sverdlov died on March 16 1919 year
        Quote: Seeker
        And what about the statements of Lenin

        Lenin wrote: “Revolution is the most acute, frantic, desperate class struggle and civil war. Not a single great revolution in history did without a civil war. ”

        As early as October 17, 1914, in a letter to A.G. To Shlyapnikov, Lenin wrote: “The slogan of peace, in my opinion, is wrong at the moment. This is a philistine, priestly slogan. The proletarian slogan should be: civil war. "
        Lenin put forward the slogan: turn the imperialist war into a civil war. “A revolution during a war is a civil war,” Lenin pointed out. Therefore, the Bolsheviks fought for a revolution in the conditions of the world imperialist war under the slogan of turning it into a civil war.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 12 January 2018 06: 56
          +3
          Quote: RUSSE Another 17 of October 1914, in a letter to A.G. To Shlyapnikov, Lenin wrote: “The slogan of peace, in my opinion, is wrong at the moment. This is a philistine, priestly slogan. The proletarian slogan should be: civil war. "
          V. I. LENIN PSS. Fifth Edition. VOLUME 49 Letters August 1914 ~ October 1917 Publishing House of Political Literature.
          MOSCOW · 1970 A. G. SHLYAPNIKOV. 17 OCTOBER 1914: “We must now struggle to support the legitimate hatred of the class-conscious workers for the rotten behavior of the Germans and draw a political conclusion from this hatred against opportunism and any concessions on it. This is an international task. It lies with us, no one else. We cannot retreat from it. The slogan is untrue. “Simple” resumption of the International (for the danger of a rotten conciliatory resolution along the lines of Kautsky-Vandervelde is very, very great!). The slogan of "peace" is not true - the slogan should be the transformation of a national war into a civil war. (This transformation can be long, it can and will require a number of preconditions, but all work must be carried out along the lines of such a transformation, in the spirit and direction of it.) Not sabotage of war, not separate, individual actions in this spirit, but mass propaganda ( not only among the "civilians"), leading to the transformation of the war into a civil war. "As you can see, not only the meaning, but the source itself has been changed. Nothing is said about the priests.
          Lenin wrote: “Revolution is the most acute, frantic, desperate class struggle and civil war. Not a single great revolution in history did without a civil war. ”

          http://leninvi.com/t34/p321 Можно самому прочитать.
    2. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 11 January 2018 21: 39
      +1
      The Provisional Government began the civil war with its crimes against the state, flirting with the radicals and openly speaking on their side against patriotic forces capable and seeking to restore order and legality in the country.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 11 January 2018 21: 52
        +3
        Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
        The Provisional Government began the civil war with its crimes against the state, flirting with the radicals and openly speaking on their side against patriotic forces capable and seeking to restore order and legality in the country.

        This is purely your personal opinion nor having a historical basis and it is erroneous.
        1. ALEA IACTA EST
          ALEA IACTA EST 11 January 2018 22: 15
          +1
          Terror, the destruction of the national culture and national identity of the Russian people, the looting of property, Brest shame, the atrocities of Latvian punishers and the directed cultivation of national separatists could not be, if not for the nearsighted, and in some places criminal actions of the rulers of the republic. However, this is really my personal opinion, which I neither force you, Maxim, nor anyone else to share.
    3. avva2012
      avva2012 12 January 2018 06: 15
      +3
      Quote: RUSS The Bolsheviks shed their first blood, resorting to terrorist methods to suppress dissent and opposition. In the first two months of their stay in power, on their conscience, the reprisal against the Supreme Commander-in-Chief General Dukhonin (the war with Germany is still officially underway - just like slapping Stalin in the summer of the 1941!), The shooting of machine guns from a machine gun demonstration in St. Petersburg on the 5 of January 1918 of the year repressive work of the Cheka. Not to mention the beginning of the total robbery of entire classes and social strata of the population.

      "The Bolsheviks shed their first blood, resorting to terrorist methods of suppressing dissent and opposition. In the first two months of their stay in power, they were responsible for reprisal against the Supreme Commander-in-Chief General Dukhonin (the war with Germany is still officially underway - it’s like slapping Stalin in the summer of 1941 !), the shooting from machine guns of a working demonstration in St. Petersburg on the 5 of January 1918 of the year, the beginning of the Chechen repressive work. Not to mention the beginning of the total robbery of entire classes and social layers of the population. "
      Further: “In the first years of Soviet power, the Bolsheviks were not yet embarrassed to admit that it was they who had imposed the Civil War on the country, and even boasted about it. On May 20 of the 1918 of the year, Y. Sverdlov, speaking at a meeting of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, said:“ Only if we can split the village into two irreconcilable hostile camps if we can rekindle the same civil war there that took place not so long ago in cities ... only in this case we can say that we, in relation to the village, did what we could do for cities. " https://sergeytsvetkov.livejournal.com/558912.htm
      l
      Maxim, if you are commenting under a pseudonym here or vice versa in LJ, then you need to write this way, otherwise it turns out that you insert without quotes into his comment others thoughts. This is plagiarism / theft, Maxim. Not good, s.
      “It’s not without reason that in Ukraine the first thing that was done during the coup was demolishing the monuments to Lenin. And where is Ukraine now? And those people who say now“ we need to leave ”, they, firstly, lie - we parted with Lenin a long time ago, They don’t pass it, they don’t study it - even medalists sometimes don’t know who Lenin is. The tragedy is that people here don’t know who real Lenin is. The only thing you can learn from all the films and books about him now is the fact that he allegedly took German money, that he was taken in a sealed carriage. they write about Lenin - not specialists either in the Bolsheviks, or in the revolutionary movements, or in Lenin - they are mud experts", - historian Alexander Kolpakidi. Believe me, I personally subscribe to every word of Alexander. And even by name, we are namesake, but I do not appropriate other people's words to myself.
      And finally, we must cite the text from the original source: V.I. Lenin PSS v. 35 p. 268: "That is why, comrades, for all our reproaches and accusations of terror, dictatorship, civil war, although we have not yet reached the real terror, because we are stronger than them, we have Soviets, it will be enough for us to nationalize banks and confiscate property to bring them into obedience - for all the charges of civil war we say: yes, we openly proclaimed what no government could proclaim. The first government in the world to speak openly about civil war is there is a government of workers, peasants and soldiers. Yes, we started and are at war against the exploiters. The more bluntly we say this, the sooner this war will end, the sooner all the working and exploited masses will understand us, they will understand that the Soviet government is doing the real, vital work of all working people.
      I don’t think, comrades, that we will soon be able to achieve victory in this struggle, but we are very rich in experience: within two months we managed to achieve much. We survived the attempt of Kerensky’s offensive against Soviet power and the complete collapse of this attempt; we survived the organization of power of the Ukrainian Kerensky - the struggle there has not ended yet, but for anyone who watches it, who has heard at least a few truthful reports from representatives of the Soviet government, it is clear that the bourgeois elements of the Ukrainian Rada are living out the last days. There is no way to doubt the victory of the Soviet power of the Ukrainian people's republic over the Ukrainian bourgeois Rada. And the struggle with Kaledin — everything is really based on the exploitation of the working people, on the basis of the bourgeois dictatorship — if there are any social foundations against the Soviet regime. The peasant congress showed firsthand that the case of Kaledin is a hopeless cause, the working people are against it. The experience of the Soviet government, propaganda by deed, by the example of Soviet organizations takes its toll, and Kaledin’s internal reliance on the Don now falls not so much from the outside as from the inside. That is why, looking at the front of the civil war in Russia, we can say with full confidence: here the victory of the Soviet power is complete and completely secured. And the victory of this Soviet power, comrades, is achieved by the fact that from the very beginning it began to fulfill the primordial precepts of socialism, consistently and decisively relying on the masses, considering it its task to awaken the most oppressed, clouded sections of society to living life, to raise it to socialist creativity. That is why the old army, the army of the barracks training, torture of soldiers, is a thing of the past. She was scrapped, and there was no stone left of her. "
  11. kalibr
    kalibr 11 January 2018 19: 28
    +3
    Quote: Boris55
    They are now.

    In power?
  12. Ilya77
    Ilya77 11 January 2018 21: 13
    +4
    Khrustobuly drove the country into a terrible situation and then created all sorts of armies on the loot. The people see everything, and the regime’s lackeys hung on a pillar. The current monarchists are some very few necrophiles who need to be poured thoroughly with rods.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 11 January 2018 21: 49
      +6
      Quote: Ilya77
      Khrustobuly drove the country into a terrible situation and then created all sorts of armies on the loot. The people see everything, and the regime’s lackeys hung on a pillar. The current monarchists are some very few necrophiles who need to be poured thoroughly with rods.

      There were practically no monarchists among the white movement, you would at least read a school textbook on the history of Russia for a start, before you hang something up.
  13. kalibr
    kalibr 11 January 2018 22: 01
    +4
    Quote: RUSS
    would you at least read a school textbook on the history of Russia for a start, before you hang something

    And they do not read anything by these people, except for materials on sites of relevant content. That is why they are very easy to manage!
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 12 January 2018 06: 22
      +1
      That is why they are very easy to manage!

      Do you refuse people logic, Vyacheslav Olegovich? Do you know the "Science of Logic" of Hegel yourself, for the "five"?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 12 January 2018 08: 24
        +2
        I work at the department of philosophy. Like the Bible, I read in the evenings. And to each individual, I do not refuse. Masse - yes! The mass needs bread and circuses ... And peace - to enjoy it!
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 12 January 2018 09: 02
          +2
          We have significant differences on this issue. In my opinion, among the mass of people, only percent of 5-10, as in medicine that cannot be treated, can be classified as a "biological machine called a man." The same percentage of those who change their environment on their own, i.e. leaders are by their nature, and the rest of the people need not be fooled, but educated, which the Bolsheviks did. Sooner or later, “management” fails for objective reasons. The tragic illusion of any ruling class that it is possible to curb the elements of human consciousness.
  14. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 12 January 2018 03: 01
    +5
    Quote: kalibr
    That is, killing one person can change the whole system in our country? And how many presidents have been killed in the US, and what has changed?

    So that all kinds of calibers-Shpakovsky and others like him would not parasitize on this topic, I explain why capitalism was restored in the USSR.
    Socialism lasts as long as the ideas of socialism take hold of the masses.
    After the Great Patriotic War, a shift in the mass consciousness of the people towards petty-bourgeois ideology took place in the USSR.
    Why did this happen?
    Firstly, the ideological struggle in the USSR never stopped, after the victory of the Bolsheviks in the civil war, many former Socialist-Revolutionaries, Mensheviks, Bundists, etc., joined the party and immediately began the struggle against the Bolshevik Central Committee. In the 30s they were given their hands and the people supported it, but after the war they took revenge.
    Secondly, during the war, an entire generation of builders of communism perished on the fronts: youth born in 1920-1921-1922-1923, brought up by the Soviet government, the working class suffered heavy losses, three members of the Communist Party perished on the fronts. The best died, in their place also heroes came to the party, but they were politically illiterate, the candidate's experience was practically canceled. After the war, the city was swept by a petty-bourgeois wave of immigrants from the village and occupied territories, the continuity of the proletarian ideology was broken by the working class.
    Therefore, the Soviet government, namely the dictatorship of the proletariat after the war, rested on the authority of I.V. Stalin. But as soon as he died, the disguised Trotskyites, Bukharinites and others like them, under the leadership of Khrushchev, managed to impose on the politically illiterate party members and the entire Soviet people, under the banner of the struggle against the personality cult, the dismantling of the Stalinist model of the socialist economy.
    A gradual restoration of capitalism began, which, under the red flag, was used to deceive the working people. The planned economy, focused on reducing production costs, was replaced by profit-oriented cost accounting. As a result, the economy began to stagnate, which eventually led to the 1991 coup.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 12 January 2018 08: 27
      +3
      Great, you explained. But from this the conclusion is that the “scoop” was doomed initially. You yourself read something for yourself ... “held on authority”. And this thing is fragile. I’ll make you money and authority, and I’ll put you in the chair of the governor of Penza. Disguised ... these are our people, not from Mars. Uneducated party members ... Where without them, pigs and "cattle fighters". And about the petty-bourgeois wave is true. In an agricultural country. Since industrialization means a wave. Then our working people are such fools that under a red rag they can blame any whim. And if possible, why not do it ... So I subscribe to your every word!
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 01: 38
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        But from this conclusion that the "scoop" was doomed initially.

        No, socialism was not initially doomed. In tsarist Russia there were all conditions for his victory. Do you not know this? But objective reasons happened on the path of further development - the war, which undermined the productive forces of socialism, and as a result they failed to repulse the bourgeoisie stalking to power. Here you are, for example, how many years you taught the History of the CPSU, and in fact you turned out to be just as politically illiterate as all the other working people, because you also ate Khrushchev’s deception and then “faked” it to others.
        About the authority. Authority is not made with money, it is earned by labor for the benefit of the people, and people also give an assessment, remember how many people cried at the funeral of V.I. Lenin and I.V. Stalin.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 13 January 2018 10: 41
          0
          There are two technologies - American and Russian, based on the effect of Jean. Set of tricks for money. If you give money, you gain credibility. Then the power. And how much the name will cry at the funeral now again depends on the amount of the fee. A cut onion in your pocket and ... grandmothers - and everyone weep sincerely!
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 30
            +4
            Quote: kalibr
            There are two technologies - American and Russian, based on the effect of Jean. Set of tricks for money. If you give money, you gain credibility. Then the power. And how much the name will cry at the funeral now again depends on the amount of the fee. A cut onion in your pocket and ... grandmothers - and everyone weep sincerely!

            What a wise explanation, according to him, it turns out that at the funeral of Lenin and Stalin the whole Soviet people were given a bulb. Bravo, a retired drummer from the Communist Party.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 13 January 2018 10: 43
          0
          That is, “BE” is to blame for everything - we’ll write it down! If "would", then socialism would be "to this day." But there wouldn’t be, so it isn’t! That is, the cause of his death is again objective - war and the bourgeoisie creeping to power. But since it was not in the USSR, it means "disguised." But they were an objective phenomenon! So, two objective phenomena and the scoop was covered with a copper basin!
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 37
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            That is, “BE” is to blame for everything - we’ll write it down! If "would", then socialism would be "to this day." But there wouldn’t be, so it isn’t! That is, the cause of his death is again objective - war and the bourgeoisie creeping to power. But since it was not in the USSR, it means "disguised." But they were an objective phenomenon! So, two objective phenomena and the scoop was covered with a copper basin!

            First, where did you find “WOULD”? And secondly, do you really seriously think that such an objective phenomenon as the Great Patriotic War can be "covered with a copper basin"? Well, you have self-conceit!
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 13 January 2018 19: 28
              0
              Yes, I agree - the collapse of the USSR was the result of objective phenomena, which was required to prove!
              "But they were an objective phenomenon! So, two objective phenomena and the scoop was covered with a copper basin!" - where is my conceit here?
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 23: 20
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                But they were an objective phenomenon! So, two objective phenomena and the scoop was covered with a copper basin! "- where is my conceit?

                At this point, I got excited, but this is for all the previous comments.
  15. Albatroz
    Albatroz 12 January 2018 07: 51
    14
    Well done volunteers!
    It’s a pity that it did not grow together!
    And it’s a pity that volunteering did not replace regularity on time!
  16. kalibr
    kalibr 12 January 2018 10: 36
    +2
    Quote: avva2012
    and the rest of the people should not be fooled, but educated, which the Bolsheviks did.

    What am I doing here, right? You yourself wrote that I write wonderful articles ... So I'm a "Bolshevik". And about your% I agree. This is Pareto’s law. Only experience shows: 80% is a eating, breeding mass without special knowledge, so somehow, 20% are those who manage them. Take any material in the news section. Look at the comments and count%. You will see that everything fits into this pattern. In the comments to my articles,% fortunately the opposite is true - 80% of the comments belong to 20% (mainly), 20% to 80%. This makes me happy!
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 12 January 2018 11: 21
      +5
      No, Vyacheslav Olegovich, with arithmetic you are doing well, but the humanistic component is bad. So, you are not a Bolshevik. They turned to the thinking part of a person, introduced works into the school curriculum, where the leitmotif sounded, "Man, that sounds proud!" For this, the population considered the power of the people and for four years defended it by sacrificing everything they could. You do not understand, like the nobility degenerated by the 20 century, that lies, contempt, arrogance are not qualities that contribute to civil peace. For them, the Revolution is a rebellious mob, bylo. But in fact, it was they who were. And they were. How, you write correctly, the guzzling, breeding mass is parasitic on the bulk of the people to which they did not even have a sense of gratitude. Kissing bugs, God forgive me!
      But from that mass of compost, 20 percent suddenly appeared, those who were engaged in science, served the Motherland, worked in production. Statistical studies have not been conducted, but I have suspicions that it was from this number that future military experts, red counts and professors, those who remained faithful to their homeland, came from. And every guzzling and breeding mass, went to the red and skinned in policemen and punishers.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 12 January 2018 17: 11
        0
        If your "humanistic component" dominated people, the 91 would never have come!
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 12 January 2018 17: 25
          +2
          In the “humanistic component” there is its opposite, according to dialectics. There was 91, there will be one, but with a different sign. Given the speed with which we all live, then ...
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 13 January 2018 10: 37
            0
            Now it won't be. I don’t want this and prepare people who don’t want it too and they go to work for people who don’t want it in principle, and support those who don’t want it in the cube, including the country's president. And who is against them ... people who do not know anything, do not know how, and want a lot, not having what to give in return. Their destiny ... bread and circuses in exchange for hard work. Today, mankind has learned to manage information flows, and this is stronger than tanks and missiles. And 91 has already shown it. Today we know more and know more, so what you dream about will never come true.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 40
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              And who is against them ... people who do not know anything, do not know how, and want a lot, not having what to give in return. Their destiny ... bread and circuses in exchange for hard work. Today, mankind has learned to manage information flows, and this is stronger than tanks and missiles. And the 91st has already shown it. Today we know more and know more, so what you dream about will never come true.

              Do not entertain yourself with illusions. The backward masses learn from experience, and experience is a great thing.
            2. long in stock.
              long in stock. 13 January 2018 14: 41
              +4
              oh Vyacheslav Olegovich .. something I look at the graduates of modern universities and I understand that they are not something more, they don’t know much in principle. and many frank idiots regardless of crusts. and your students are unlikely to be better than others. never..history is repeated whether you don’t know. and by the way then it also opposed those who were educated, the population was not even literate in their mass .. what ended up reminding probably not worth it ..
            3. avva2012
              avva2012 13 January 2018 14: 53
              +3
              Have you read Sytin? No, not what is now Russophobic, but in the 90's Sytin's incriminations. Or I don’t remember the installation. In short, options for auto-suggestion. So, what you wrote is what it is. You yourself are trying to conduct an autogenic training, no more.
              Actually, I'm talking about Thomas, and you're talking about Yerema. Build a philosophical system refuting Hegel, then you can write, "so what you dream of will never come true." Personally, no one will ask you. Do not console yourself with barren illusions. Or amuse the opposite. Popular wisdom, "no matter what the child would not amuse ......".
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 13 January 2018 16: 27
                +3
                Quote: avva2012
                and there were Sytin’s incriminations in the 90s. Or I don’t remember the installation.

                The mood.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 13 January 2018 16: 47
                  +3
                  Right! Looks like it doesn't?
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 13 January 2018 16: 53
                    +3
                    Naturally. The essence of the name does not change. Autotraining, it is under any sauce - autotraining.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 13 January 2018 17: 02
                      +3
                      And it pleases. If the "pillar" of liberal thought, the "father of Russian democracy", is engaged in such attitudes, then not everything is so bad. "Feels the cat whose meat is eaten"?
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 13 January 2018 17: 42
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        "pillar" of liberal thought, "father of Russian democracy"

                        You, doctor, be careful with the epithets. And then, he will read the “patient” and, out of habit, will begin, at the mirror, to admire the little fellow through the nostrils, reflecting on how cleverly he got into 20% of the “non-profit” !.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 14 January 2018 10: 27
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And it pleases. If the "pillar" of liberal thought, the "father of Russian democracy," ............ "Feels cat whose meat is eaten"?

                        ----- where the dog rummaged !!!!!!!!
                        About moods and affirmations ---- Jose Silva (Texas) developed a methodology for changing life, habits through repeated repetition, wrote many books about it. And the Wolf in the American TV series showed these books to Little Red Riding Hood and said ---- I work on myself, every day I get better, better and better. ... Soon I will cease to be a predator !!!!!!
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 13 January 2018 17: 50
                      +3
                      What does it mean out of habit? The person is sure of it. You and I, and 80 percent more visitors to the site There, and he is on the "shining hill" for a long time. Just “tune in”, zaboriny, reinforce the awareness of this.
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 13 January 2018 18: 33
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The person is sure of it. You and I, and another 80 percent of visitors to the site There, and he is on the "shining hill" for a long time.

                        Let someone proudly glance at: “It's me!”
                        He will decorate his outfits with gold: “This is me!”
                        But only his deeds will go in harmony,
                        Then death comes out of an ambush: "And this is me!" laughing
                        Omar Khayyam
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 13 January 2018 18: 42
                      +3
                      Omar Khayyam, a genius, but with death, in general, one must be careful. Life is such a strange thing.
                      1. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 13 January 2018 22: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        but with death, in general, one must be more careful.

                        In my opinion, it’s necessary to be careful with life. For non-compliance with safety precautions, when dealing with life, as a rule, leads to this very death.
                    4. avva2012
                      avva2012 14 January 2018 06: 14
                      +3
                      I do not see the contradictions. Both processes are interconnected. I write about the attitude towards them on my part.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 14 January 2018 10: 41
                        +2
                        Outcast ideas, qualities for the time being do not manifest themselves. However, the moment comes when they can no longer be restrained, but you can only accept them. The more you blaspheme, mock, the stronger the "response" will be
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 02: 09
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      ... In the comments on my articles,% fortunately the opposite is true - 80% of the comments belong to 20% (mainly), 20% to 80% ....

      When will you finally figure out your favorite law? You poke it everywhere, basically out of place. From this, you and mathematics are in trouble. Re-read what nonsense you wrote, I gladly quoted it above.
      For those who are not familiar with this pseudo-law.
      The Pareto Law (Pareto principle, or the 20/80 principle) - an empirical rule named after the economist and sociologist Wilfredo Pareto, in the most general form is formulated as “20% of the effort gives 80% of the result, and the remaining 80% of the effort is only 20% of the result ".
      But here they usually forget to add that 20% of successful efforts cannot exist without 80% less successful.
  17. kalibr
    kalibr 12 January 2018 17: 09
    0
    Quote: avva2012
    And every guzzling and breeding mass, went to the red and skinned in policemen and punishers.

    They both went to both by chance and served both. Three times others ran from white to red and vice versa to green as well.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 12 January 2018 17: 31
      +4
      I do not think that they were all sub-passionaries. We can see a lot over this system, and many people are lost in this whirlwind. Well, among the representatives of the conglomerate, the red-skinned-policemen-punishers, during the Second World War, representatives of the mass of guzzlers approached, obviously, to 100%. Protoplasm.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 13 January 2018 10: 28
        0
        You are certainly right in this. There was no sense of passion there. People were simply lost, yes, and fell victim to circumstances. Remember N. Tolstoy’s “Torture, his“ Adventures of Nevzorov or Ibicus ”...
  18. Weyland
    Weyland 12 January 2018 22: 34
    +1
    Directly one to one - shovel textbook:
    "The owners, the bourgeoisie, the capitalists, the landowners, their political superstructure — the liberal-democratic, bourgeois parties and movements — have become" white "

    Only for some reason, in reality, among the whites, “owners, bourgeoisie, capitalists, landowners” for some reason made up only a few percent - there were much more people like Kornilov, Semenov and Kolchak (immigrants from ordinary Cossacks), Denikin (son of a serf) ...
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 01: 03
      +3
      Quote: Weyland
      Only for some reason, in reality, among the whites, “owners, bourgeoisie, capitalists, landowners” for some reason made up only a few percent - there were much more people like Kornilov, Semenov and Kolchak (immigrants from ordinary Cossacks), Denikin (son of a serf) ..

      Among them were workers, but this does not mean anything. Many of the lower classes, breaking through to the top, did not want to part with the privileges that they had received, and the Soviet government took them away.
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 13 January 2018 23: 43
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Among them were workers, but this does not mean anything.

        You did not understand: you wrote that the workers and especially the peasants among the whites were not the exception, but the bulk!
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 13 January 2018 14: 44
      +5
      and why did you break your thought? among the reds there were a huge number of noblemen and officers .. the origin does not mean automatic belonging to some kind of camp ..
  19. kalibr
    kalibr 13 January 2018 10: 30
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    But here they usually forget to add that 20% of successful efforts cannot exist without 80% less successful.

    Correctly. 20% of smart people is simply impossible to exist without 80% of fools.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 14: 45
      +4
      Quote: kalibr
      Correctly. 20% of smart people is simply impossible to exist without 80% of fools.

      Yes, a convenient religion, the Indians came up with ...
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 13 January 2018 14: 47
      +4
      it depends on whom to consider a fool. and where. if you are a very smart person at your department, then somewhere in a foundry on a smelting you will probably look stupid .. isn’t that so?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 13 January 2018 19: 32
        0
        I completely agree with you. Each is good in its place from a professional point of view. But there is also general erudition, isn't it. If you put the cattleman behind my pulpit, he may be and will read my lecture on my synopsis. But will they listen to him, that’s the question? And from the cows I’ll remove anyway.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 13 January 2018 23: 42
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          But there is also general erudition, isn't it.

          It makes no sense to boast of erudition. There is a good joke from life on this subject.
          One erudite clever man came to rest on the sea and hired a boatman to ride. Bored, he started a conversation with the boatman: "Have you read Shpakovsky's books on medieval weapons?" The boatman replied, "No."
          "Ohhh! You lost a quarter of your life!" - exclaimed the wise guy.
          After a short pause, he again asks the boatman: "And you read Shpakovsky's book, what would happen if Hitler captured Moscow?"
          The boatman sighed: "No."
          "Ltd!" cried the vacationer, "you have lost half your life!"
          At this time, a wave swept the boat and she began to sink. The boatman asks the wise guy: "Do you know how to swim?", He muttered: "No ..."
          “Well then, you lost your whole life,” the boatman replied.
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 14 January 2018 16: 07
            +2
            Hmm ... a little long but that's right ..
        2. long in stock.
          long in stock. 14 January 2018 00: 14
          +3
          maybe .. but you can take it away, the work is hard .. then it turns out that the cattle farmer read it according to your notes and did not listen to him. but you couldn’t do his work because you didn’t have enough strength .. is it that you both failed?
        3. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 14 January 2018 12: 30
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          I completely agree with you. .......... from under the cows I will remove in any case.
          I doubt it, Vyacheslav, general erudition will not help here. Probably now they clean the mechanisms from under the cows, rinse them, brush them, they clean the streets mechanically ..... so you have to learn and pass the exam. How do cleaners of clearing companies do it?
      2. Weyland
        Weyland 13 January 2018 23: 39
        0
        Quote: Long in stock.
        if you’re a very smart person at your department, you’ll probably look stupid somewhere in a foundry on smelting.

        I can handle it there and there. And in the foundry I can handle the batch, and the melting, and the casting. Unlike the current ones, my generation of scientists combined a scientific career with a very decent production practice! And in the dashing 90s where they just didn’t have to work, they did it!
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 14 January 2018 00: 16
          +3
          so it’s wonderful. So the Soviet training system was much better than the modern one?
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 14 January 2018 12: 37
            +2
            Quote: long in stock.
            so it’s wonderful. So the Soviet training system was much better than the modern one?

            Here, several years ago, there was an article about the purposeful construction of Soviet school education, about how, as a result, it became possible for a person to master the programs himself. An example is that people managed to change professions and achieve success in a new field.
  20. kalibr
    kalibr 13 January 2018 19: 30
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    The backward masses learn from experience, and experience is a great thing.

    This is what we learn from experience. The backward masses do not learn anything!
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 13 January 2018 19: 39
      +3
      as if then with surprise not to discover that the backward masses have already learned and what you can offer them is irrelevant ... which incidentally is happening now ..
  21. avva2012
    avva2012 14 January 2018 14: 35
    +3
    Reptiloid,
    ---- I work on myself, every day I get better, better and better. ... Soon I will cease to be a predator !!!!!!
    laughing laughing And how did it become? Yes, the logical problem, in my opinion, is the "wolf". The predator itself is not bad or good. Therefore, in the cartoon, in an ironic manner, the inconsistency of this system is shown.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 14 January 2018 15: 42
      +3
      HA HA HA !!!!!!! THIS --- not a cartoon! This is a real 10 episode movie! And the Wolf harassed Red Riding Hood, bred it to the senses! She resisted him ---- You are a predator! You eat little and weak! And he reassured her with books !!!!! That's what !!!!!!

      And then Cinderella’s stomach ....... began to grow a little lupus ..... in short, Wolf divorce was a success!
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 14 January 2018 16: 20
        +1
        Zashibsya !!!!! Not at Cinderella's, not at the red hat, but, on the contrary, at the girl who violated the space-time thread from our real world, who fell into the world of fairy tales! LONG LOOKED, I NEED TO REVIEW IT SOMETHING
  22. Naputeon bonaput
    Naputeon bonaput 14 January 2018 19: 08
    0
    What other liberals and democrats in Russia at that time? Cadets? Well, yes, good "liberals" .. The author casts a shadow on the fence, and he is very enthusiastic about pathos.
  23. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 January 2018 22: 58
    +2
    Alexander Green,
    Good evening, Alexander! Today I read your comments yesterday and today. Thank you for explaining everything. Even if your opponents kick, kick, do not want to listen, think ........ But your explanations will be needed by other people one way or another. Well, I re-read them from time to time.
    1. Dalailama
      Dalailama 15 January 2018 00: 57
      0
      yes it is a Trotskyist, their leader has not yet explained so
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 15 January 2018 21: 55
        +2
        Quote: DalaiLama
        yes it is a Trotskyist, their leader has not yet explained so

        No, dear, you are mistaken, I am a Stalinist. But your guru - Goebbels - when slandering the USSR, made very wide use of Trotsky's fabrications. So the Trotskyist is you.
        1. Dalailama
          Dalailama 16 January 2018 00: 34
          0
          no, you used to praise intelligent Trotsky and his shining path
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 16 January 2018 00: 50
            +3
            Quote: DalaiLama
            no, you used to praise intelligent Trotsky and his shining path

            Firstly, to praise and follow are two different things, and secondly, I have not praised him anywhere. You were completely Germanized there in your Germanys, forgot how to understand the Russian language. And the translator you use seems to distort the text very much.
            1. Dalailama
              Dalailama 16 January 2018 02: 36
              0
              praised, and to praise Trotsky means to follow him along his radiant path and be an enemy of the people.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 17 January 2018 19: 22
                +2
                Quote: DalaiLama
                praised, and to praise Trotsky means to follow him along his radiant path and be an enemy of the people.

                Dear, to have enough nonsense to write, you have already forgotten how to think logically in a foreign land.
                1. Dalailama
                  Dalailama 18 January 2018 15: 34
                  0
                  stupidity, as always, you wrote in response to quite reasonable words.
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 15 January 2018 21: 48
      +1
      Quote: Reptiloid
      Thank you for explaining everything.

      Dear friend, thanks for the kind words.
  24. Lieutenant
    Lieutenant 9 February 2020 18: 50
    -2
    A very biased and subjective article written according to all the canons of Soviet historiography. In the Civil War, each side had its own truth. White Guard officers fought against the Bolsheviks, who overthrew the legitimate government and dispersed the Constituent Assembly. We must not forget about the red terror, the policy of war communism, the desecration of Orthodox churches and shrines, which contributed to the influx of new volunteers under the banners of L. G. Kornilov, A. I. Denikin, A. V. Kolchak and other. In politics, the Bolsheviks were disappointed even by those who made up their social support, recall the Kronstadt rebellion and the Tambov uprising.