Military Review

White fought for the interests of the West

206
White fought for the interests of the West

“It would be a mistake to think that during the civil war in Russia we fought there for a white case. No, it was the whites who fought for our interests. ”

Winston Churchill


Russia exploded in 1917. Started another Russian distemper. This was primarily due to the huge charge of internal contradictions accumulated over the centuries. The old semi-feudal and semi-capitalist Russia perished. But from the ruins, like a phoenix bird, a new, Soviet Russia was revived.

When the February-March revolution took place, practically the entire leadership of Russian society, including even the clergy, came out against the tsar. Nicholas II suddenly found himself alone. And the army, which saved Russia from collapse in 1905-1907, was ineptly laid into the ground on the battlefields of the world war. The new officers, recruited mainly from the ranks of the intelligentsia, were completely liberal, and the peasants, who had just put on their greatcoats, did not want to protect the tsarist government.

Smoot 1917 — 1920 was mythologized almost immediately. In the USSR, the myth spread that the Red Army fought with the Whites, who wanted to put the king on the throne and return the feudal system. In general, the white army, the white baron again prepare us the royal throne.

In post-Soviet Russia, the opposite version was born (whites still abroad began to cultivate it). In this myth, the red “subhumans”, the lumpen proletariat, the criminal “bottom” and the Bolsheviks bought by the Germans destroyed the “old Russia”, killed the tsar, raped the gymnasts of the school, cut out the nobility, clergy, intellectuals, officers, merchants, well-to-do hardworking peasants. Those who did not die in the dungeons and concentration camps fled abroad. That is, the Reds knocked out the “best part” of the Russian people; they passed through the blooming and rich Russian Empire with fire and sword, turning it into a “desert”. Then they ruled until the 1991 year, continuing to cut and rob, turning the remnants of the people into a scoop-cattle. The noble White Army fought heroically against the “red plague” for the faith, the king and the Fatherland!

Among the handful of Russian nationalist radicals, another version was born. Russia flourished, was soon to become a leading world power, but then there was a "Jewish revolution." The “Jewish commissars”, who constituted the top of the Bolshevik party, were bought and financially supported by Jewish financiers and Zionists in order to destroy Orthodox Russia. They seized power and drowned the country in blood. That is, the role of Jewry, which was only one of many forces interested in the destruction of Tsarist Russia, was mythologized and extremely exaggerated.

The problem is that the real история 1917 of the year and subsequent really bloody years does not fit into the framework of these myths. Such myths could flourish only with a lack of information and its one-sided presentation. In particular, when the turbid wave of anti-Soviet literature, the memories of white refugees went to 1990, and this line was maintained at the state level, with all the power of the mainstream media.

Thus, a simple comparison of the facts shows that the Bolsheviks had nothing to do with February. It was not they who overthrew the tsar, the tsarist government, destroyed the autocracy and the empire itself. The role of the Communist Bolsheviks in these events is close to zero. After the start of world war in 1914, they honestly stated that the war has an imperialistic, predatory character, that for revolutionaries the correct position is defeatism. Since the defeat of the Russian army and Russia in the war, their decomposition will lead to an increase in social discontent and revolution (this is what happened). For this honesty, the party was completely crushed. The activists were imprisoned and exiled or lived abroad. Lenin at the end of 1916 thought that during his life there would be no revolution in Russia at all. As a result, the Bolshevik party had the weakest positions in Russia, and was practically absent in the political arena.

A distemper, the Civil War in Russia actually began immediately after the destruction of the monarchy, which remained the only pillar (after the death of the cadre imperial army) of “old Russia”. In particular, the peasant war immediately began. The hatred of the peasants did not hold back anymore. The sacred royal power has fallen. Tsarist army with iron discipline was not. The peasants themselves in the mass became soldiers, shed someone else’s and their blood (that is, were not afraid to shed blood), fled from the front weapons in hand. Now the peasants were able to take revenge. Hundreds of landed estates, blood was flowing. Began a merciless Russian riot.

Later, the peasants will fight both with the red and the white, create their own "army". They will fight against the government and the state in general. It is precisely large-scale peasant uprisings in the rear that will become one of the most important reasons for the defeat of the White movement. Whites cannot calm the peasants, find an approach to them, and the most severe repressions and terror will not help. The peasants will create their project of people's liberties. He envisioned the realization of a completely utopian ideal of life — without the authorities and the state., the land belongs to the peasants on the basis of the neighborhood and mutual aid in processing it. Obviously, in the world of the capitalist industrial powers, this was a utopia that could not save Russian civilization and the people. But the peasants fought for the mirage and paid a terrible price for it - millions of lives. The Bolsheviks with great difficulty suppressed this project, which also led our civilization to its final destruction. The peasant war and the struggle against it of whites and reds has become one of the bloodiest and most brutal pages of the Russian turmoil.

Immediately the front-line soldiers poured into the rear, bringing with them chaos and weapons. They did not want to listen to any meetings and elders, they demanded a new redistribution of land. At the same time, February revolutionaries not only “democratized” the army, finished order and organization in it, but also destroyed the old police, secret police, the judicial system, destroyed the card files and databases, dispersed the old, experienced law enforcement personnel. They arranged an amnesty, releasing together with political criminals and criminals. The main force in the cities became anarchic masses of soldiers and sailors, joined by representatives of the city "bottom" and criminals. The criminal revolution began, the constant companion of any unrest.

Another war in Russia was unleashed by various separatist nationalists. They tore up Russia into parts Polish, Finnish, Ukrainian, Caucasian, Crimean and other nationalists. They formed their "armies", created governments, and most often relied on the support of the Western and Eastern powers (Turkey, Japan). In the same spirit, the Cossacks acted, seeking the complete autonomy of their troops. Russia literally before our eyes was falling apart into “independent” Bantustans and republics.

The village, without receiving industrial products, began to hold food until better times. The supply system of cities and the remnants of the armed forces, and so poorly working, finally collapsed. The transport was paralyzed. Soldiers and Cossacks stormed the trains to return home. The centralized supply of food and fuel to the cities ceased. Plants and factories stopped, devoid of raw materials and fuel, with ruined management and collapsed economic ties. It was a real disaster. Russia fell into the inferno! This happened before October!

It was not the Bolshevik commissars and the Red Guards who killed the “old Russia”; they came later when they cleared the way. Nicholas II overthrew the Russian "elite" - generals and deputies, grand dukes and higher hierarchs of the church, masons of high steppes of initiation and bankers, aristocrats and industrialists, merchants and officials. They can be called revolutionist feudalists, freemason masses. They wanted to get full power and lead Russia along the western path of development, while the Russian autocracy prevented them from doing so.

The top society — industrial-financial, political, partly military and administrative, the hierarchs of the church and the intelligentsia, then almost all of them were liberal, hated the Tsarist regime, and acted as the main detachment of the February revolution. Many February revolutionaries were part of the Masonic lodges, which hierarchically obeyed the “elder brothers” in the West. Masonic lodges and clubs and became a force that agreed on the interests and performance of various groups and groups of the Russian elite. All of them hated autocracy, which did not give them full power. Therefore, nobody defended Nicholas II. Individual generals and officers who were ready to defend the throne were isolated, lacked organizational and material capabilities.

The common people, tired of war, angered by the loss and deterioration of life, were indifferent to a coup that swept away autocracy. The parties of monarchists, the Black Hundreds, who played a large role in suppressing the 1905-1907 revolution, and uniting broad strata of the common people, were demoralized in previous years, disorganized by the actions of the authorities themselves, so they were not visible at all. The clergy took the February coup and even partially supported it in order to restore the institution of the patriarchate.

The Russian national bourgeoisie, which for the most part was Old Believers, considered the Romanovs regime to be anti-Christian, the persecutor of the true Russian faith. The Romanovs, according to Old Believers, implanted a western abomination. Therefore, the Old Believers as a whole, and especially the Old Believers bourgeoisie (and it controlled up to half of the entire industrial capital of Russia), who hated the Romanov regime, financially supported the revolution. She supported the bourgeois-liberal revolution and the pro-Western bourgeoisie, often alien (Germans, Jews, etc.), who wanted to remove all restrictions from the “market”. As a result, Smoot dared them all. Part of the bourgeoisie died, part fled. The Old Believer world was destroyed.

Another force that took the most active part in the destruction of “old Russia” was the intelligentsia. It was basically liberal, pro-Western. European civilization was seen as an ideal. All ideologies, utopias, political doctrines, artistic trends and scientific achievements were adopted from the West. Part of the intelligentsia was a liberal-democratic orientation, part of it was a radical revolutionary. And almost all the intelligentsia was fascinated by the "enlightened West", she dreamed of dragging Russia into the Western world. The intelligentsia was terribly far from the people, did not understand and did not accept the Russian civilization project. She opposed the autocracy, as the tsarist regime prevented closer to "sweet Europe", to establish "democracy." As a result, the intelligentsia played a destructive and suicidal role. It flourished more or less in “old Russia”. Smoot destroyed most of the old intelligentsia.

The fevralists wanted complete power in order to direct it along the western path of development. They wanted to be part of the "civilized world." An example for them was France and England. The king interfered with them, he was eliminated. Thus, the Western liberals, who did not understand the essence of Russian civilization and the people, finally opened the road to the inferno, destroying the last clips that restrained the beginning of the unrest - the sacred royal power and army.

In this way, defeating the Tsarist regime, revolutionaries caused a catastrophe of "old Russia"in which they were successful, rich and powerful. Then, some of them, the right wing, seeing the growing chaos, with the help of the generals, tried to “reassure” the country by establishing a military dictatorship. The left Februaryists, led by Kerensky, failed this attempt. The country, through the efforts of the Provisional Government, plunged deeper and deeper into turmoil. Fevralisty literally everything. Only for this reason the Bolsheviks and the Russian Communists were able to take power. But the unrest and the Civil War began before them.

Fevralisty, wanting to return power, began the organization of the White movement. It was a liberal-democratic, bourgeois project. He was promoted by Western masons. He was supported by the countries of the Entente, who were interested in the Russians to kill the Russians. and the Civil War completely exhausted the Russian civilization, the people. Meanwhile, the West divided Russia into spheres of influence and semi-colonies-bantustans. It is obvious that the Civil War in Russia was extremely beneficial to the owners of England, the USA and France, with the participation of Japan and other countries. The power of the Russians was exterminated in a fratricidal slaughter. The Russian people were bleeding. Let me remind you that at the beginning of the 20th century, Russians in terms of numbers were the third largest people in the world, second only to the population of China and India. And if it were not for the world war, and unrest 1917— 1920's. and subsequent catastrophes, we could maintain this position and have about 500 million people currently.

And after the most brutal slaughter, accompanied by the greatest robbery of Russia in history (before 1991, when a new unrest began), the masters of the West could solve the “Russian question” forever. In place of the Russian Empire, there would be “independent” states like Poland and Finland, the Baltic countries (in reality, the satellites of the Western powers), independent bantustans like Ukraine, Georgia or the Siberian Republic. The wealth of Russia fell under the control of the West. Russia as a civilization and the main geopolitical enemy of the West was disappearing from the face of the planet. The remnants of the Russian people waited for the slavish fate, assimilation, the role of ethnographic material for the "refreshment of the blood" of other nations and complete extinction.

In this way, the Bolsheviks could not start a civil war. It began even before October. The tsarist government signed the death sentence of "old Russia" when it began to fight in a world war for the interests of France, England and the United States. The degenerated "elite" of the Russian Empire overthrew the tsar, killed the autocracy and the empire in order to create a "free, democratic Russia" in which all power belongs to the "rich and successful." It is clear that the owners of the West by all means helped the February revolutionaries, solving the main task - the destruction of their millennial enemy, the Russian civilization and the people.

Fevralista-Westerners dreamed of putting Russia on the rails of the western path of development, but in reality they destroyed the last braces that restrained the fundamental contradictions that had been accumulated in Russia for centuries, the army and autocracy (sacred royal power). The church has already lost its “holy spirit”, therefore it has ceased to be a deterrent. Moreover, the church hierarchs themselves contributed to the February-March revolution. As a result, the top of Russian society and opened the gates in the inferno, began a merciless Russian unrest.

In this chaos, the Bolsheviks, as one of the detachments of revolutionaries (at the beginning of the troubles, the weakest), used their chance and took power. At the same time, they proposed a new development project - the Soviet one, which could save civilization and the people from complete destruction. Fevralisty put forward their project - the White movement. But he was, in fact, a liberal-democratic, bourgeois. That is, it proceeded from the possibility of Russia's integration into the European (Western) civilization. This did not correspond to the Russian matrix (social justice and the domination of the ethics of conscience).

The peasants waged their war against the authorities and the state in general and put forward their own project - liberties. But under the dominance of the great capitalist industrial powers, with millions of army armed planes, tanks, guns and machine guns, this project also led to the final death of Russia. Peasant Russia, even having defeated the Reds and the Whites, could not withstand the Western predators. Russia was becoming a defenseless victim.

Thus, the only force that stood for social justice, the elimination of social parasites that oppress the masses, and having a project and development program acceptable to the majority of the population, turned out to be Russian communists. Therefore, the Bolsheviks and won. They were able to recreate Russia in the form of a red empire, which not only restored its former position in the world, but also included half of the planet in its sphere of influence. Russian globalization began - the creation of a fair world order. The masters of the West, frightened by this, created the “Third Reich” project, gave almost the whole of Europe to Hitler and threw the German “blond beasts” into the Soviet Union. A new world war has begun.
Author:
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  1. Serge72
    Serge72 2 February 2018 06: 12
    22
    White fought for their vision of the future of Russia.
    Wartime officers - former workers and peasants, generals (Denikin, Kornilov) - raznoshintsy.
    At the same time, among the reds there were many of the same noblemen (Lenin, Tukhachevsky). And they also fought for their view of the future of Russia.
    Just everyone saw him in his own way
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 2 February 2018 07: 17
      10
      White fought for their vision of the future of Russia.
      ... Yes it is, the whites "yesterday" fought for the "bright today" .....
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 2 February 2018 07: 26
      11
      Quote: Serge72
      White fought for their vision of the future of Russia.

      White fought:

      -against 13,5 млн corpses from starvation, cannibalism, corpse eating 21-22, 32-33, 47-48 years- UNEVERED in Russia NEVER,
      - Against concentration camps, which in Russia were NEVER,
      - Against social segregation and apartheid, which have never been
      - Against the many millions of flagrantly criminal robberies and peasants,
      - Against the fierce executions of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in PEACE time,
      - opposite WWII
      - against the dictatorship of stupidity, illiteracy of a handful of adventurers who seized power

      Fought BEHIND:
      -FREEDOM
      words, parties, meetings, conscience, thoughts,
      -for EQUALITY OF ALL and for equal rights-absolutely ALL citizens of Russia.
      -For United and Indivisible Russia
      -for Russian culture, monuments, Istria, destroyed by usurpers so-as vandals destroyed Rome.


      The author writes:
      So, a simple comparison of the facts shows that the Bolsheviks had nothing to do with February

      Let me remind the author that the Leader wrote in the Short Course of the VKPB about FEVR. revolution:
      The revolution was committed by the PROLETARIAT.
      They led him on the streets of Bolsheviks

      The Bolsheviks set a day off, a holiday-Day of the overthrow of the autocracy- probably, in honor of the "bourgeoisie". lol
      1. venaya
        venaya 2 February 2018 07: 44
        +8
        Quote: Olgovich
        .. The Bolsheviks set a holiday - The day of the overthrow of the autocracy - probably in honor of the "bourgeoisie."

        What is such a day? Maybe February 23 is the Day of the Red Army, or March 8 is International Women's Day, or October 25 (7th November in a new style). Specify, otherwise your "post" didn’t get anything clear, I would like clarification.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 2 February 2018 09: 10
          +7
          Quote: venaya
          Specify, otherwise your "post" didn’t get anything clear, I would like clarification.

          Unclear-WHAT unclear request : "The Bolsheviks set a day off, a holiday - Day of the overthrow of the autocracy ". Do you want a number? You are welcome: March 12 (It was also February 27).
          Apparently, the bourgeois and noblemen who "ousted" the king lol yes
      2. Geronimo73
        Geronimo73 2 February 2018 13: 09
        17
        you, probably, when you wrote about concentration camps - cried? there were no concentration camps and there were no tips, understand the terms. as for the prisons and the place of serving the sentence, then somehow you missed the imperial penal servitude, including perpetual, prisons and stuff .....
        in general, you have a complete set of stamps that are not relevant to reality. just don’t have to start a bagpipe about your grandfather personally for the victim.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 2 February 2018 15: 28
          +5
          Quote: Geronimo73
          you, probably, when you wrote about concentration camps - cried? concentration camps and under the councils were not

          On August 9, 1918, Lenin wrote in a telegram to the Penza Provincial Executive Committee and Evgenia Bosch: “It is necessary to organize enhanced security from selectively reliable people, to conduct merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards.” About a month after this telegram, September 5, 1918 was a decree of the Council of People's Commissars on Red Terror was issued, signed by Petrovsky, Kursky and V. Bonch-Bruevich. In addition to the indications of mass executions, it noted: “To ensure the Soviet Republic from class enemies by isolating them in concentration camps”
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 27
          +3
          Quote: Geronimo73
          there were no concentration camps and there were no councils,

          To kindergarten, dear man, to kindergarten, to you in the preparatory group!
          Quote: Geronimo73
          then somehow you missed imperial penal servitude, incl. perpetual, prisons and stuff .....

          Carrot is also like horseradish, a- DIFFERENT things! yes
          Quote: Geronimo73
          in general, you have a complete set of stamps that are not relevant to reality. just don’t have to start a bagpipe about your grandfather personally for the victim.

          Chatter.
      3. Hantengri
        Hantengri 2 February 2018 13: 16
        19
        Quote: Olgovich
        White fought:
        -on contrast to 13,5 million corpses from starvation, cannibalism, carnivores 21-22, 32-33, 47-48 years -NEVER in Russia, NEVER,
        - Against concentration camps, which in Russia were NEVER,
        - Against social segregation and apartheid, which have never been
        - Against the many millions of flagrantly criminal robberies and peasants,
        - Against the fierce executions of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in PEACE time,
        - opposite WWII
        - against the dictatorship of stupidity, illiteracy of a handful of adventurers who seized power

        Standard set: Olgovich, shovel, fan, basin with "known substance". laughing The main thing is to have time to throw more! lol And here:
        - Against social segregation and apartheid, which have never been
        - opposite WWII

        the glow of idiocy is simply a masterpiece! Bravo, Olgovich! laughing
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 13: 29
          18
          HanTengri Today, 13:16 ↑
          the glow of idiocy is simply a masterpiece! Bravo, Olgovich! laughing
          Well, what did you want a colleague from him? He does not need a head in order to think, but in order to eat into it and to relay a pro-Western FALSE.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 2 February 2018 13: 34
            +5
            The fact of the matter is that he wrote the truth. And his opponents can only clown and fool around.
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 14: 06
              19
              Gopnik Today, 13:34 ↑
              The fact of the matter is that he wrote the truth.
              The truth in your case is that you, and olgovich, and Teterin, and other anti-advisers and soldiers for the "crunch of French rolls", there are none other than mishandled Cossacks working for the collapse of Russia! There is no truth in your words from the word at all, this is the true truth. Everything else is a lie and an attempt to falsify the Soviet past. The system by which you act is already so beaten that in fact it’s not looking at you that is sickening and disgusting, but just in parallel. You can’t convince anyone that you are right here in VO anyway, most of all here are people with education, combat experience, and most people think, and it’s at least difficult to deceive them, if not impossible. In addition, everything that you sculpt here, exposing for allegedly "truth", all this was already 30 years ago, when the Soviet Union collapsed. Now you have decided to adopt the same cliches as you did then, that is, your overseas curators either finished their fiction, or they decided not to bathe and go along the path already beaten in the 90s. Yes, what a trouble, we have a long memory and we perfectly remember what such conversations lead to.
              That's the whole TRUTH about you olgovich, Teterin and other disadvantages!
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 2 February 2018 14: 07
              13
              Quote: Gopnik
              The fact of the matter is that he wrote the truth. And his opponents can only clown and fool around

              On what basis should we consider everything that Olgovich said is true?
            3. Olgovich
              Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 38
              +5
              Quote: Gopnik
              That's just the point that he wrote the truth. And his opponents can only clown and fool around.

              Therefore, they are afraid like firethe truth. Ka was afraid of her ALL for 70 years, killing, mutilating, forbidding all and all those who disagree..
              But-blown away, anyway. lol yes
              1. Bechtin
                Bechtin 28 November 2018 10: 02
                0
                They simply didn’t modify the organs at one time, too much scum came out of the light of day. But this is temporary, history tends to repeat itself at a new level. This is probably why the so-called the elite takes all their acquired overpowering theft to partners, remember the lessons of 1917
            4. V. Salama
              V. Salama 4 February 2018 18: 38
              +1
              Quote: Gopnik
              The fact of the matter is that he wrote the truth. And his opponents can only clown and fool around.

              This is not true, dear, but a half-truth (RUSS), which is worse than a lie, because it is based on facts (often prepared), and using facts, you can prove anything to a person with uncritical thinking. Here is a gobbling slander with ignorance of real facts (Olgovich). So it’s not just a matter of polemics, but there’s no desire even to “clown and fool around”. What is the meaning? You maydanutomu whole head Svidomo tried to prove something? And here it is similar, that to refute one statement it is necessary to bring twenty, and to them all God's dew ...
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 2 February 2018 16: 56
            +9
            Quote: Varyag_0711
            He does not need a head in order to think, but in order to eat into it and to relay a pro-Western FALSE.

            Here, it seems, something else: "- Doctor, two in my head are talking. One says .... And the other says ... And I tell them ...
            - So there you are also ?!
            - Yes, doctor. And isn’t it so? " laughing
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 2 February 2018 18: 33
              +4
              Somehow with a voodoo doll, you didn’t succeed. repeat Rather, it turned out, but not so. Liveliness, you added him, or what? laughing Or, do you want this activity before? bully
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 2 February 2018 22: 13
                +3
                Yes, really ... But! The experiment, however, revealed that kirdyk is from an ice ax, where it is more kirdykist than kirdyk from voodoo magic. laughing
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 3 February 2018 03: 22
                  +2
                  Or maybe everything is simpler. On evil, enta magic does not work? Rather, it acts, but as a nutrient substrate laughing
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 3 February 2018 06: 55
                    0
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Or maybe everything is simpler. On evil, enta magic does not work? Rather, it acts, but as a nutrient substrate laughing

                    You are calmer, comrade, calmer, or you are so overexcited that BEGINNING OF THE FOURTH still - gall spray laughing
                    Quote: avva2012
                    avva2012 Today, 03: 22
                    . lol Fins, take care! hi
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 February 2018 07: 12
                      +4
                      As they say, you will advise your wife how to cook cabbage soup. You probably don’t know how many time zones there are in Russia? So, where I live, + 5 from Moscow. And, as I understand it, essentially a comment, you have nothing to say? So let's write it down. wink
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 February 2018 07: 47
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        So this is where I live +5 from Moscow.

                        Then EVEN worse:
                        Quote: avva2012
                        avva2012 Yesterday, 18:33

                        And- immediately- "into battle" !:
                        Quote: avva2012
                        avva2012 Today, 03:22
                        yes
                        So the advice remains valid
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And, as I understand it, in essence the comment, you have nothing to say

                        So essentially, no. belay request Are you talking?
                        Oh, flippers, flippers .... hi
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 February 2018 08: 44
                      +3
                      I knew you would like it! wink laughing
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 February 2018 09: 17
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        I knew you would like it!

                        Again, not in Russian .... request :

                        I knew that you would like it!
                        or
                        I knew you would like it!? belay
                        Absolutely non-Russian. Panimash ... belay request .
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 28
          +2
          Quote: HanTengri
          Standard set:

          Standard answer: go-go, go-go again, lover of the mat and admirer of Mr.! yes
      4. Squelcher
        Squelcher 2 February 2018 13: 29
        12
        And so they slaughtered the peasants, beaten with death rods to those who disagree with this, and the "stupid" people supported the Bolsheviks :), you are not Olgovich, you are a heap.
        1. Gopnik
          Gopnik 2 February 2018 13: 35
          +3
          What elections did you support?
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 29
          +3
          Quote: Squelcher
          And therefore cut peasants

          What did they cut, comrade Leninovichman?
          1. Squelcher
            Squelcher 3 February 2018 13: 04
            +2
            “We must defeat the White Guards at all costs, because they are cruel. It is necessary to free the population from their yoke, they are torturing the civilians very much, and for sympathy for the Soviet regime they immediately shoot, even women and children, there were rumors that the children were beaten on the corner with their heads. Communists are shot and hanged in a conspicuous place with the inscription "communist" (12th company of the 1st Soviet rifle regiment, June 22, 1919).
            “White atrocities must be eliminated. According to incoming information from prisoners, the atrocities of whites are terrible for the entire population, and especially for young girls. They shoot the Communists ”(12th company of the 1st Soviet rifle regiment, June 24, 1919).
            “Whites commit atrocities, local peasants are driven into trenches, stripped prisoners, communists hang on the first bitch” (35th Rifle Regiment, August 16, 1919)
            “In our regiment there are 200 defectors from Kolchak, they say that they were shot for more than half for questions, for which they are going to fight, and the officers beat with whips for every fault” (1st company of the 444th Vologda Regiment, August 1, 1919 .).
            “Now I have finally found out what the whites are doing; they are really marauders and villains of the working people ”(Communications Command of the 11th Regiment, June 24, 1919).
            “The entire population without exception ran with the whites, abandoned houses, livestock, property and fled wherever they look. The White Guards intimidated the population that the Reds slaughtered everyone and everything, but it turned out the other way around: for 2 months of their stay, they stabbed out 2000 women and children in Votkinsk, even women were buried for being wives of the Red Army. Aren't they murderers. And the majority of the Kazan population want to experience the same happiness. So that's how beautifully civilized circles do. Now the inhabitants are returning with different convictions and respect for the Soviet regime, because it is humane even with its enemies ”(Vyatka province, Votkinsk, July 25, 1919).
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 February 2018 11: 40
              0
              Quote: Squelcher
              “We must defeat the White Guards at all costs, because they are cruel. It is necessary to free the population from their yoke, they are torturing the civilians very much, and for sympathy for the Soviet regime they immediately shoot, even women and children, there were rumors that the children were beaten on the corner with their heads. Communists are shot and hanged in a conspicuous place with the inscription "communist" (12th company of the 1st Soviet rifle regiment, June 22, 1919).
              “White atrocities must be eliminated. According to incoming information from prisoners, the atrocities of whites are terrible for the entire population, and especially for young girls. They shoot the Communists ”(12th company of the 1st Soviet rifle regiment, June 24, 1919).
              “Whites commit atrocities, local peasants are driven into trenches, stripped prisoners, communists hang on the first bitch” (35th Rifle Regiment, August 16, 1919)
              “In our regiment there are 200 defectors from Kolchak, they say that they were shot for more than half for questions, for which they are going to fight, and the officers beat with whips for every fault” (1st company of the 444th Vologda Regiment, August 1, 1919 .).
              “Now I have finally found out what the whites are doing; they are really marauders and villains of the working people ”(Communications Command of the 11th Regiment, June 24, 1919).
              .

              You are 30 years late from this Bolshevik NORTH.
              DOCUMENTARY INVESTIGATIONSI, according to the CPC, about the atrocities of the Bolsheviks, read in the materials of the State Special Investigation Commission to Investigate the Bolshevik Atrocities
              1. V. Salama
                V. Salama 4 February 2018 19: 05
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                .
                DOCUMENTARY INVESTIGATIONSI, according to the CPC, about the atrocities of the Bolsheviks, read in the materials of the State Special Investigation Commission to Investigate the Bolshevik Atrocities

                Well, if "according to the CPC," then yes, that explains everything. The results of her work may not even be published. But "materials" can be passed off as results and distributed to liberal circles as a methodological tool for brainwashing. There, the chairmen did not accidentally Savanidze, or even one of the non-living. It would be necessary to find out all the heroes by name
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 February 2018 06: 59
                  0
                  Quote: V. Salama
                  . But "materials" can be passed off as results and distributed to liberal circles as a methodological tool for brainwashing. There the chairmen are not Savanidze accidentally

                  This commission 1919 lol
                  1. V. Salama
                    V. Salama 6 February 2018 21: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: Olgovich

                    This commission 1919 lol

                    So, I recall something, wasn’t Kolchak in the chairmen there? Then the correction - the results of the work of this commission have long been circulated in liberal circles as a methodological tool for brainwashing.
      5. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 2 February 2018 13: 33
        +5
        Cry Sergei Lazo you can not hear? But in vain. As for the equality of all, I especially liked it.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 35
          +4
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Cry Sergei Lazo you can not hear? But in vain.

          So no one heard him (well, except for you, of course).
          But only where did you hear him? request Golyuniki? recourse
          A man didn’t climb into the firebox — the little one was too much for him.
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 2 February 2018 17: 15
            +8
            A man didn’t climb into the firebox — the little one was too much for him.

            Well, the argument is "VERY STRONG." Bulls in banks roll up.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 3 February 2018 06: 33
              0
              Quote: Okolotochny
              Well, the argument is "VERY STRONG." Bulls in banks roll up.

              The Bolsheviks “burned” him “burned” in the furnace of a steam locomotive - in their false agitations .. Do you even know this? belay
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 3 February 2018 12: 29
                +6
                Olgovich, so give specific facts for the false death of S. Lazo? About “not getting into the firebox” is a spherical horse in a vacuum. For the terrible death of Baneuvura, too, a lie?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 3 February 2018 16: 19
                  0
                  Quote: Okolotochny
                  Olgovich, so give specific facts for the false death of S. Lazo? About “not getting into the firebox” is a spherical horse in a vacuum. For the terrible death of Baneuvura, too, a lie?

                  All lies, as always with the Bolsheviks.
                  Here is what he writes Institute of History, Archeology and Ethnography of the Peoples of the Far East FEB RAS in "History of the Russian Far East."
                  After working in the archives, it turned out that his detachment (Lazo) consisted not only of the Bolsheviks, but also Prisoners of Chita Prisonwho were released on the condition that they go over to the "red" side. However, former convicts have not recovered, but rather their robberies and aggression delivered a lot of trouble to the Bolsheviks.

                  About the death of Sergei Lazo Japanese newspaper "Japan Chronicle" was the first to report - in April 1920, he was shot in Vladivostok and the corpse burned.

                  “They [Soviet historians] would look at least once at a real engine - you won’t even throw a cat on it,” says local historian Yuri Filatov, who in the late 1980s verified the feats of Sergey Lazo and Vitaly Bonivur. - The inlet dimensions were 64 45 centimeters. "

                  There was another incident with the engine. In the early 70s of the XX century a steam locomotive was installed in Ussuriysk, in the furnace of which, as it were, Lazo was burned. On the pedestal was American locomotive of the 40s of release, which fell into the Soviet Union under Lend-Lease
                  lol

                  And here is the history of the Barabarian Bolsheviks:
                  Before stood on a granite pedestal Monument to Admiral Zavoyko. Red partisans occupying the city at the beginning sawed off the head at the monument then demolished whole and melted. On the empty pedestal put a sculpture of Lazo.
      6. iouris
        iouris 2 February 2018 13: 48
        +5
        You should not fight against, but in favor. "Democracy", "freedom" and other values ​​are just words, if they are not tied to the resolution of major national problems and the interests of a wide mass of people. The mass itself is not able to set goals, set goals and solve them. It should be seen that during the civil war there was a confrontation between the elites and a change of elites. A certain part of the elites is to blame for the fact that this happens through the self-destruction of the state and the nation. With this vision of the historical problem, the division into “whites” and “reds” is rather arbitrary.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 2 February 2018 20: 53
          0
          You know, I'll subscribe to your comment. Bravo!
        2. V. Salama
          V. Salama 4 February 2018 19: 20
          +1
          Quote: iouris
          ... With this vision of the historical problem, the division into "white" and "red" is rather arbitrary.
          The difference between "Good" and "Evil" is also "fairly arbitrary", everything rests on the norm. Well, you need to change the "vision of the problem." Lenin also warned of the danger of reaching relativism in his reasoning.
      7. avva2012
        avva2012 2 February 2018 19: 04
        +8
        Olgovich:
        Fought FOR:
        -FREEDOM of speech, parties, meetings, conscience, thoughts,
        -for EQUALITY OF ALL and for equal rights-absolutely ALL citizens of Russia.
        -For United and Indivisible Russia
        -for Russian culture, monuments, Istria, destroyed by usurpers so-as vandals destroyed Rome.
        There was freedom, even though you eat with a spoon.
        Sentence of peasants Blizaryev Ardatov County of Nizhny Novgorod Province to the Council of Ministers 1905 of the year of December 8 of the day, we, the undersigned peasants of the village of Elizarieva, being of this number at a rural gathering from all the householders, had a judgment about our stalemate and scarce living. We recognized that our poverty and extreme poverty stems from the fact that we have very little allotment land. Ever since we were let out of the landlords' power, we still have the same amount of land, and the population has doubled, so we allotted the allotment land into such small pieces that we got strips - you won’t get through with the harrow. With insufficient land, no matter how you fertilize it, you won’t get a big crop. With all our hard work, many do not eat bread from their own land, but bought from a bench, etc. e. interrupt from shrka to crust. There are whole families between us who do not have even a piece of land, which is already very bad. Meanwhile, state taxes and taxes are increasing year by year. We are levied on taxes, but in return they don’t give anything, even schools to educate our children, so far no one has guessed to build. We recognize that if this continues, if we do not continue to be given enough land, and taxes increase, then the peasant and his family will have to dig into the ground. Allotment of land is small, and the former landowner land around us is sold out in small pieces to different owners, so there’s nowhere to buy land near us, and besides, we don’t have money to buy it: where to get peasant capital to buy land, when often and there’s nothing to buy salt. If there is a lot of land around us, it is in the possession of the neighboring monasteries of Sarovsky and Diveevsky. It is known that the Sarov Monastery has tens of thousands of beautiful land with timber forest. All this land at different times donated there by benefactors. The monks do not cultivate this land with their own hands, but employ workers from our own environment. According to the rules of the church and the charters of the monasteries, the Inoku is not supposed to have any property: "he who accepts monasticism swears to swear to renounce all worldly things, to serve only Christ and the salvation of his neighbor." Meanwhile, we see with our own eyes that the monks dispose of huge estates, save piles of gold and eat excellent food, while at the same time we, their neighbors, working people, often do not have bread crusts. It is also known that most landowners, in the old days, acquired estates and lands not by buying with labor money, but for nothing - by skillful service to those in power. This evil did not happen for a year or two, but for centuries, from this it happened that the whole land was concentrated in the hands of wealthy noblemen and monasteries, and the peasant was left with a microscopic allotment - fifty dollars per soul ..... As we hear, everywhere occur agrarian unrest, everywhere peasants rebel over land. We do not want to rebel and produce any unrest; we don’t want this, because we remember God and his commandment not to offend the neighbor. But it is also necessary for the prosperous landowners, and especially the monasteries, to recall their lesser brother, the deprived peasant, to share with him what they themselves received as a gift. About which we bring to your attention. "Nizhny Novgorod Zemstvo newspaper" 1906. 5 January.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 February 2018 06: 41
          0
          Quote: avva2012
          We recognized that our poverty and extreme poverty stems from the fact that we have very insufficient allotment land

          These people were RICHERS and possessed UNEXPECTED rights compared with unfortunate peasants in 20 years: when they DIED by millions, ate each other and critical letter in
          Quote: avva2012
          "Nizhny Novgorod Zemstvo newspaper"
          could have imagined only in hot-headed delirium.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 3 February 2018 07: 21
            +2
            Olgovich:
            it could have seemed only in hot-headed delirium: "These people were RICHERS and possessed UNEXPECTED rights in comparison with unhappy peasants in 20 years: when they DIED by millions, ate each other."
            Here with this, I with you, absolutely agree. Only at such a distance, I do not understand if your delirium is feverish or not.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 3 February 2018 07: 51
              0
              Quote: avva2012
              Here with this, I with you, absolutely agree. Only at such a distance, I do not understand, delirium is feverish or not.

              I would not agree: you are not in a state, um, to object.
              And your nonsense will pass, when the vaccine TRUE works.
              I’m teaching you slowly. yes
          2. avva2012
            avva2012 3 February 2018 08: 49
            +1
            Oh well laughing Apparently very hot. "White" and hot. Poor him.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 3 February 2018 09: 21
              0
              Quote: avva2012
              Oh well

              Are you on horseback?
              You, um, don’t laugh, an hour? belay And then yesterday, one of your Russophobes, already neighing .....
              yes
      8. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 02: 28
        +5
        Quote: Olgovich
        The Bolsheviks, however, set the day off, a holiday, the Day of the overthrow of the autocracy, probably in honor of the "bourgeoisie."


        Quote: Olgovich
        "The Bolsheviks set the day off, the holiday - Day of the overthrow of the autocracy." Do you want a number? Please: March 12 (it was February 27).
        Apparently, the bourgeois and noblemen who "ousted" the king


        You are our sick, rave again.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 February 2018 06: 42
          0
          Quote: Alexander Green
          You are our sick, rave again.

          If you start, at last, STUDY, then you will stop writing silly comments yes
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 15: 04
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            If you start, at last, STUDY, then you will stop writing silly comments

            “Dear,” I study every day, read the works of V.I. Lenin and I.V. Stalin, but you can’t get rid of delusional obsessions, you can see that you haven’t started treatment yet, or it’s not working anymore, the illness has started too much.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 February 2018 07: 42
              0
              Quote: Alexander Green
              I study every day, read work V.I. Lenin and I.V. Stalin

              Now it’s clear why you are raving and don’t know the story. lol
              Quote: Alexander Green
              but you can’t free yourself from delusional obsessions, you can see that you haven’t started treatment yet, or it’s not working anymore, too much illness has started.

              ALL crazy people try to cure the "sick" people around them, in their opinion.
              Another example! hi
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 5 February 2018 02: 01
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                ALL crazy people are trying to cure the "sick" people around them, in their opinion, people. Another example!

                Sorry, sick, dead with braids you dreamed
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 February 2018 07: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Sorry, sick, dead with braids you dreamed

                  You read again, maybe someday it will come:ALL crazy people try to cure the "sick" people around them, in their opinion.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 5 February 2018 17: 29
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Read it again, maybe it will one day: ALL crazy people try to cure the "sick" people around them, in their opinion.


                    Feel you are already repeating, you can already see the memory is weakening ...
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 6 February 2018 09: 50
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Feel you are already repeating, you can already see the memory is weakening ...

                      Repetition for YOU, for it does not reach ...
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 7 February 2018 00: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Repetition for YOU, because it does not reach ..

                        Yes, many already note that you are repeating in all discussions, and this ... a bad sign ...
    3. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 07: 49
      16
      Quote: Serge72
      White fought for their vision of the future of Russia

      A convenient position, so you can justify anything. But nothing that the "white vision" radically did not correspond to the interests of the vast majority of the country's population? But with the interests of the British-French and other German-Japanese, it was just the same.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 2 February 2018 09: 02
        +7
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        And nothing, that "white vision", radically did not correspond to interests the vast majority of the population country ?

        Who gave you the right to speak on behalf of the "vast majority of the population"? belay It, the population, gave the POWER in the elections by no means to the Bolsheviks, if not in the know.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 09: 46
          12
          Quote: Olgovich
          Who gave you the right to speak on behalf of the "vast majority of the population"?

          Knowledge of the history of their country.
          Quote: Olgovich
          the population gave power to the election is by no means the Bolsheviks

          The main thing is not elections, not a tick on a piece of paper, but who will be supported, or vice versa, not supported by real deeds. And the overwhelming majority of the population of the country of the Bolsheviks ultimately supported one way or another, but to all the bells and whistles they resisted.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 2 February 2018 10: 44
            +6
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            The main not elections, not a tick on a piece of paper

            When the main thing is NOT elections, then a CIVIL war breaks out.
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            And the overwhelming majority of the population of the Bolsheviks in the end somehow supported

            One more time: CHOICE of the people respect, and the thug in the gateway is also stronger, and what: - is he right?
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 11: 28
              15
              Olgovich Today, 10:44 ↑ New
              When the main thing is NOT elections, then a CIVIL war breaks out.
              Again at Olga Fukan from morning to break, rush about with your worthless tales about “freedom of choice” and “holy teaching” like Khima with a sieve ... laughing Well, rush if you’re still not tired, as they say, no matter what the child is amusing, it’s not with his hands. laughing
              Already 100500 times to you fool DB explained that “if”, but “if”, then mushrooms would grow in the wort. In addition to you, Teterin, Russ and a couple of three of the same fool , no one believes all this crap anymore. tongue
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 2 February 2018 11: 39
                +6
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                with his worthless fairy tales about "freedom of choice" and holy uch

                Logic primates beautiful: who is stronger crashes with a club on the head of the opponent, the one and the “winner” yes
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                you db explained that "if", but "ka would"
                To you
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Db
                , I remind you, I DO NOT HAVE. And the elections were and US-was. hi
                1. Varyag_0711
                  Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 11: 59
                  16
                  Olgovich Today, 11: 39 ↑
                  And the elections were and US-was. hi
                  I repeat, for especially stubborn fool , elections, this is fiction and carrot for the people, read Mark Twain or something, increase at least a little your level of knowledge from the baseboard. laughing
                  Moreover, the elections to the Constitutional Council were not any popular elections, as you are trying to present to us here. This was another bred, no interests of the common people could be represented by representatives of the bourgeoisie and the kulaks. So you can at least bite, proving the unprovable, I personally do not care, your shit, you swim in it.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 2 February 2018 12: 04
                    +5
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    I repeat, for those who are especially stubborn, elections are fiction and carrots for the people,

                    No other invented (except for a club on the head)
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    Moreover, the elections to the Constitutional Council were not any popular elections, as you are trying to present to us here.

                    Moreover, they were the MOST advanced in the WORLD: UNIVERSAL, SECRET, EQUAL, FREE and DIRECT.
                    Such a world has not been ANYWHERE.
                    As it was never in the USSR NEVER.
                    Quote: Varyag_0711
                    that you can at least bite

                    Why do I have such an honor? I give in to YOU hi yes
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 2 February 2018 19: 17
                      +7
                      Olgovich:
                      Such a world has not been ANYWHERE.
                      And from myself I’ll add, and never.
                      "The most complete petition" of the peasants p. Family members of the Vasilsky district of the Nizhny Novgorod province to Nicholas II .... Our ancestors for many centuries shed blood for the expansion of our Fatherland and endured on their shoulders all the hardships and needs of the State, which we currently bear, but, despite the fact that our ancestors received for their faithful service to the State, upon release them from serfdom, beggarly allotment of land with high redemption payments, which we inherited from them. Our land shortages, exorbitant taxes and taxes, lawlessness in collecting state payments, through which there is often the sale of livestock and various necessary property, and there are high rental prices for land, meadows and local plots, which we are forced to rent in the Depot, the Treasury and landowners, brought us to deep poverty. We suffer all the calamities with which our long-suffering Russia is overflowing and our innocent blood pours through the river, tormented by the severe captivity of the people. In our deep conviction, only the following can reassure us: 1) Immediately announce and convene the Constituent National People’s Assembly to develop the basic laws on the basis of universal, direct, equal and secret ballot. 2) Provide the peasants with the land of Specific, Treasury, Monastery, Cabinet and Landowners at the expense of the State without any charge. We are Udelnye peasants and are currently renting meadows, arable land in the Depot and buying forest plots at exorbitant prices that are set at the auction due to the admission of the Free Competition Division fist merchants. Despite such high prices, our economy forces us to rent the above lands. Such a way of buying plunges us into poverty, the already very shaken our economy with high taxes and taxes. The earth and the arc were cultivated by our ancestors, who watered them with their sweat and blood, as well as a lot of work was put by us on clearing and cultivating these lands. This hard labor brought a lot of people prematurely to the grave. So let these lands be given to us as a keepsake of the distant past and spent by our ancestors on them | and by us labor, namely: Specific meadows and forests adjacent to our allotted land, according to 15, 37, 41, 61, 50, 56 and 57, in a total area of ​​up to 2 000 tithes. In the allotment we received land on 766 revision souls on 4 tithes per soul, of which one tithe is completely uncomfortable. At present, in our society, the male sex has already reached up to 1 270 souls and the female up to 1360 souls and only accounts for 2 1 / 4 tithing per soul. With this allotment of land, it has become completely impossible for us to live, and yet a third of the cultivated land remains useless every year (under steam) ....RGIA. F. 1412. 1906. On. 244. D. 19. LL 1-2. Handwritten script.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 February 2018 06: 48
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And from myself I’ll add, and never.

                        They wanted to say something, comrade Klitschko-2?
                        WHAT did you dispute from the one I quoted?
                        only CONFIRMED-FREEDOM of the word, but denied something?
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 February 2018 07: 26
                      +1
                      Olgovich: They wanted to say something, Comrade. nickname-2?
                      Sorry, this comment was for those who can think.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 February 2018 07: 56
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Sorry, this comment was for those who can think.

                        This also implies your ability to do so.
                        But when did you learn-think?! belay request
                        Not visible, I assure you.
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 3 February 2018 09: 23
                      +2
                      For people who can think, Olgovich think. For you, I wrote a comment to Khan Tengri. You read it. Personally, I do not read your "creativity" if it does not apply to me. And what you produce to me, even though I read it ...
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 3 February 2018 11: 01
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Personally, I am your "creativity"I do not readif it does not apply to me. Yes and thatwhat you produce to me although I read

                        belay Comrade Klitschko-2, once again in RUSSIAN state the "thought"! lol
            2. Squelcher
              Squelcher 2 February 2018 13: 32
              +7
              Civil war occurs when some citizens consider themselves and their Wishlist above other citizens, and at the same time force to impose their understanding of shit democracy or a standard of civil society often alien to others.
    4. V. Salama
      V. Salama 3 February 2018 10: 20
      +1
      Quote: Serge72
      White fought for their vision of the future of Russia.
      .................................................
      .................................................
      ...........
      Just everyone saw him in his own way

      Most of the “whites” fought in the Red Army. In fact, the Red Army is formed by the "whites". By 1920, the fleet's command staff was 92,3% White, 97,3% headed the naval headquarters, 91,3 headed the armies, 97,4% headed the headquarters of the armies, 88,9% led the divisions, 97% led division headquarters. “White” I call the former officers of the tsarist army because:
      None of the officers who went over to the Reds, with rare exceptions, did not want to see the fatherland socialist, but it was an intervention, and it was by no means a chimera. Professor Y. Kantor

      With some simplification, it can be stated that the whites fought with the whites. Only one of them fought for the preservation of the Fatherland, because they essentially swore allegiance to him and understood that it would continue to split up and stab with Entente forces (the intervention of the central powers began in May 1918, and at the end of 1917 in England and France accepted the decision to delimit interests in the territory of the former Russian Empire, and the international exchange for the sale of Russian lands began to operate.In March 1917, the Entente states began invading, in total 14 foreign states participated in military aggression.During this period, foreign troops invaded the European part Russia, Transcaucasia, Central Asia, the Far East and Siberia), and the other part of the whites had no other purpose than “eradicating the red plague” at all costs and they did not bother about the “future of Russia” absolutely. This is the bottom of many reasons why they lost, although they had everything they needed to win on the material side. Based on this, it is possible to understand which of them atrocities more, since the means determine the goals. It also makes it clear that in the future “1937” was inevitable, as well as the fact that the “aggravation of the class struggle” with the death of Stalin, the country's leadership ceased to notice, the elite began to decompose and, as a result, the counter-revolution defeated and the USSR disappeared as a renewed The Russian Empire. We will not fight - they will continue to split up. Those in power seem to "confuse the Fatherland with Your Grace.
  2. venaya
    venaya 2 February 2018 06: 17
    +1
    .. the masters of the West did their utmost to help the revolutionary revolutionaries by deciding the main task is the destruction of its thousand-year-old enemy, Russian civilization and people.

    They helped all the revolutionaries! Another thing is that not absolutely all of these revolutionaries sought to help the "West" to implement the x main task: "the destruction of its thousand-year-old enemy, Russian civilization and people". Some of them, as it turned out, also had their own plans that did not coincide with the plans of the organizers of all these revolutions. This also happens, not often but sometimes.
  3. moskowit
    moskowit 2 February 2018 06: 47
    +5
    And we all who are against the People and the Russian State are fighting for the interests of the West ..... Throughout the history of Russian statehood with any form of government ...
  4. Korsar4
    Korsar4 2 February 2018 06: 50
    +7
    There is no right in the Civil War.

    And in the article, alas, there are too many slogans.
    1. Letnab
      Letnab 2 February 2018 07: 13
      +4
      however, the point of view is very good, everyone was looking for something advantageous ...
      In this spirit, it is necessary to consider all the turmoil in the history textbook, so that children learn to think, and not rush into the arms of any bulk ...
    2. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 07: 52
      14
      Quote: Korsar4
      No right in civil war

      There is. The Reds fought for a just cause, and it is our happiness that they won.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 2 February 2018 08: 27
        +8
        Food Survey. The robbery and destruction of the Temples. Is it a beneficence? Trotsky - the representative of a just cause?
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 08: 56
          15
          Quote: Korsar4
          Food Survey. The robbery and destruction of the Temples. Is it a beneficence? Trotsky - the representative of a just cause?

          The surplus-appropriation - It was invented even under the tsar, as a measure against the food crisis. The Bolsheviks were also forced to use it.
          The robbery and destruction of the Temples - Temples were mostly demolished if only they interfered with the construction of important facilities - factories, schools, hospitals, residential buildings, roads, etc. And yet, yes, it is a blessing.
          And yet - temples and churches, and before the Bolsheviks they were demolished only on the road.
          Regarding the robbery - all the church wealth came from the sweat and blood of the people. After the revolution, the people simply took away what was rightfully theirs, not priests.
          Trotsky certainly an ambiguous personality, but during the period of revolution, civil war and intervention, he rather played a positive role. His further actions, this is another conversation.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 2 February 2018 09: 08
            +7
            Good. Indeed, the surplus appraisal was not invented by the Bolsheviks. Only pictures of the Bolshevik food surplus from the memory of people still can not be erased. Even the descendants. Chat.

            About the Temples - Do you sincerely believe in what you have stated?

            Who else is positive for you? Uritsky? Sverdlov?
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 09: 55
              +7
              Quote: Korsar4
              Good. Indeed, the surplus appraisal was not invented by the Bolsheviks. Only pictures of the Bolshevik food surplus from the memory of people still can not be erased. Even the descendants. Chat.

              Yes, in principle, I agree with you. Alas, the descendants do not differ in intelligence and interest in the history of their country. Propagandons told descendants that the Bolsheviks invented the surplus-appraisal, and the descendants believe. There is no arguing with you.
              Quote: Korsar4
              About the Temples - Do you sincerely believe in what you have stated?

              Yes.
              Quote: Korsar4
              Who else is positive for you? Uritsky? Sverdlov?

              Both.
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 09: 08
            +8
            [quote = rkkasa 81] Procurement - invented under the tsar, [/ quote]
            But only under the tsar the products were seized at a fixed price and in strictly established quantities.
            [quote = rkkasa 81], [Looting and destruction of Temples - temples were mostly demolished if only they interfered with the construction of important facilities - factories-schools-hospitals-residential buildings-roads, etc. And yet, yes, this is a blessing. / Quote]
            Outright lies. The construction of which "important facility" was prevented by the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, built on public donations in memory of the heroes of the war of 1812.
            And what, for you, the destruction of the centers of the spiritual life of the people is a boon?
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 10: 35
              10
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              But only under the king food was seized at a fixed price and in strictly established quantities.

              Firm prices, and a fixed amount, it still does not mean anything. The price may be solid, but at the same time miserable, for which no one wants to sell food.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Outright lies. What “important facility” construction was prevented by the Cathedral of Christ the Savior

              1 - The plans were at the Palace of Soviets, the war prevented.
              2 - For the sake of the HHS, the monastery was demolished, and that's okay.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Church of Christ the Savior, built on public donations

              You're lying. HHS was built on government money.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              the destruction of the centers of the spiritual life of the people is good deed?

              And what kind of beast is this - the centers of the spiritual life of the people? Factories-schools-hospitals-museums, I understand that. And why are temples better for spiritual life than museums for example?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 19: 13
                +3
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Firm prices, and a fixed amount, it still does not mean anything.

                But the lack of documented protests against these food surpluses speaks for itself.
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Plans were for the Palace of Soviets, the war prevented.

                And do you think this project of the sick fantasy of a gigantoman is more important than a memorial church to heroes who laid down their lives in defense of the Fatherland ?!
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                For the sake of the HHS, the monastery was demolished, and that's okay

                Here, as it were, one object was replaced by another. The same type and for the purpose of honoring the memory of those killed in the defense of the homeland.
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                You're lying. HHS was built on government money.

                85% off. The remaining 15 were still public donations.
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                And what kind of beast is this - the centers of the spiritual life of the people

                This is not a "beast", these are places of importance for ... how could it be more accessible for you, a materialist, to explain ... mass cultural and moral enlightenment and moral unity of people. Of course, I make it extremely simple, but the essence is approximately the following.
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                And why are temples better for spiritual life than museums for example

                Because in museums, unlike the Temples, they don’t try to convey to people the idea that they need to be more humane, help people around them, respect their own and other people's dignity.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 2 February 2018 10: 53
              +5
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              The construction of which “important object” was prevented by the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, built on public donations in memory of the heroes of the war of 1812.

              How what ?! The construction of the PIT, which was "built" in its place (the so-called "pool").
              A marble plaque with names Heroes of World War II and the following wars were used — for CRUSHED paths of parks.
              Like the same plates with the names of the Heroes of Russian sailors from Naval Cathedral in Kronstadt on CRUSHED. also.
              And the temples of the 11th century, like STONEWATERS for the building ... humpback.
              A marble blown up tombs POZHARSKY-facing ... district committee.
              1. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 11: 39
                13
                Olgovich Today, 10:53 ↑ New
                How what ?! The construction of the PIT, which was "built" in its place (the so-called "pool").
                The pool, unlike your CSU, brought REAL benefit to ordinary people! And in your CSU, what's the use? Money laundering for the "most holy" patriarch? Why in CSU paid car washes? Still, the official brothel would have been opened there for "ilita", and what’s more convenient, he went first to sin, then immediately prayed, and you can even sell indulgences, for a day, for a week, for a month, for a year, you can also have a life subscription, but this who has VERY much money ... laughing
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 2 February 2018 11: 46
                  +5
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  The pool, unlike your CSU, brought REAL benefit to ordinary people!

                  Ahh, did you wash there? yes
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  And in your CSU, kakaI'm good?

                  And from the MONUMENTS to the Heroes of the war, WHAT benefit? If you think that there should always be a specific benefit, wash there, scratch your back, yes, they are useless yes
                2. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 19: 14
                  +4
                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  The pool, unlike your CSU, brought REAL benefit to ordinary people!

                  That is, for you, the pool (from which, by the way, the nearby museum suffered) is more important than the memory of the heroes who sacrificed themselves for the freedom of the Fatherland?
                  1. Sanya Terek
                    Sanya Terek 3 February 2018 01: 12
                    +3
                    "Lieutenant", in the army of which state did you receive this title? In Polish or Czechoslovak? In the Soviet and Russian armies there is no such title and never was. And the hussar's tunic was fastened. In which regiment did you deign to serve? You, during the time of the Russian Empire, regiment officers, whose uniform you pulled on yourself illegally, would be treated to a candelabrum for a little while.
            3. long in stock.
              long in stock. 2 February 2018 12: 24
              11
              it means so. under the tsar and at fixed prices, the peasants refused to hand over bread. I wonder why? and demolish the temple — if it interferes with the construction of the hospital — a truly believing person will say yes, for the life of people is more expensive. Already the 16th century, it’s not a pity? Apparently not .. and if the church was built on a donation, why is it the property of the church? By the way, the Bolsheviks did not demolish any architecturally and historically important churches. Instead, they took care of them and allocated the money for restoration in order .. here are the villains ..
            4. saigon
              saigon 2 February 2018 16: 42
              +9
              And how is it that our Empress Catherine the second quietly and without an alternative basis took church lands to the treasury?
              Or is it right when the autocratic queen takes the treasury.
              And they also tried to blame her for robbing the church, but clarifications came instantly and silence.
            5. avva2012
              avva2012 2 February 2018 19: 27
              +7
              Lieutenant Teterin
              And what, for you, the destruction of the centers of the spiritual life of the people is a boon?
              Somehow interesting, you care about the "spiritual life of the people." The people themselves did not see much else and demanded too.
              From the verdict of the peasants of the Makaryevsky district of the Nizhny Novgorod province to the I State Duma ..... 7) All the peasants are secretly offended by the church clergy, and no one wants to declare this. The present priests are alien to the peasants, they do not go to the peasants in the villages to baptize children, they take as much as they want for the wedding, they take money for themselves for holiday prayers in the church, as well as for funerals at the church and for graves at churches. All this peasants - dark people - outraged. Churches were built by our great-grandfathers, and completely visiting people manage. It is necessary to change all this. If there were no peasants, then there would be no need for churches either. And if there were no churches, then there would be no priests. Put a salary for all priests, for which they should teach the Law of God at schools without special surcharge. And also to establish that they didn’t take for a wedding, they would go to villages to baptize for free, for the graves to receive money for the church’s income, and don’t make any extortion from the coming monks - free of charge. Churches should be exempted from taxes, and priests should depend entirely on the parish. By the verdict of the parish, they must be accepted and dismissed, and must also be in the churches, under the supervision of church elders, parish books, which should be checked by the guardian vaults. Expenses incurred without convictions of the board of trustees shall not be accepted. Gas. "Peasant Russia" 1906. 30 April.
            6. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 2 February 2018 20: 47
              +4
              Actually, the Church under the Tsar Father was on the state budget — it seems to be doing a good job — parish schools, for which it received state subsidies. But how many of them reached the priests-teachers, history is silent. And with the release of the decree on the separation of the church from the state, the budgetary freebie ended. And about the "folk money for the temple" - none of my ancestors donated money for the temples due to the complete absence of their excess. These so-called "people's donations" were made by the then oligarchs, as well as by the current ones. It seems that they were voluntarily forcibly removed from the already small salary of hard workers.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 3 February 2018 12: 20
                0
                Quote: Aviator_
                Actually, the Church under the Tsar Father was on the state budget — it seems to be doing a good job — parish schools, for which it received state subsidies.

                Not all this time. The Church (one of the largest owners in the country) gave most of the property to the state in response to a promise to her eternal content by the state.
                Quote: Aviator_
                And with the release of the decree on the separation of the church from the state, the budgetary freebie ended.

                And with the exit, you just had to RETURN the property to the owner.
                Quote: Aviator_
                And about the "folk money for the temple" - none of my ancestors donated money for the temples because of the complete absence of their excess.

                For your information nand folk money a lot of monuments were erected in Russia: Krylov, Kruzenshtern, Pushkin (many), Bellinghausen, etc.
                Quote: Aviator_
                It looks like they voluntary-compulsory seized from the already small salaries of hard workers.

                This loan so collected in the USSR.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 3 February 2018 16: 34
                  0
                  [/ quote] gave to the state in response to the promise of eternal maintenance by its state. [quote]
                  Very interesting. A link to this statement is possible?
          3. RUSS
            RUSS 2 February 2018 09: 54
            +7
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            The robbery and destruction of the Temples - the temples were mostly demolished if they only interfered with the construction of important facilities - factories, schools, hospitals, residential buildings, roads, etc. And yet, yes, it is a blessing.

            Impudent and unguarded lies, blew up temples and monasteries and destroyed them, opened churches and stables in churches, in monasteries of psychiatric hospitals and prisons, etc. There was an open struggle with the church, what important and so necessary objects are we talking about when the Cathedral of Christ the Savior or the church in the Kremlin were destroyed? Or why destroyed hundreds if not thousands of village churches? I personally know about the three village churches that were destroyed, but on the spot it is a wasteland!
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 11: 52
              10
              Quote: RUSS
              in churches opened warehouses and stables, in monasteries of psychiatric hospitals and prisons, etc.

              Regrettably, prisons and hospitals are needed even under socialism. And warehouses with stables, and other institutions. But the construction of the cult - no, not needed. Unless they are objects of historical and artistic value.
              Quote: RUSS
              There was an open struggle with the church, what important and so necessary objects are we talking about when the Cathedral of Christ the Savior or the church in the Kremlin were destroyed? Or why destroyed hundreds if not thousands of village churches?

              Remind you of the St. Nicholas-Gostunsky temple in the Kremlin? Destroyed at the beginning of the nineteenth century ...
              Or about this:
              Professor Kostomarov, returning from a trip with scientific purposes to Novgorod and Pskov, visited me and told me <...> when Grand Duke Mikhail expressed his intention to build a church in Novgorod in honor of his saint, there, instead of simply fulfilling this desire, already demolished the ancient church of St. Michael, dating back to the XIV century. Church of st. Lazarus, which belonged to the same time and needed only regular repairs, was demolished in the same way <...>
              In front of my eyes, Your Majesty, about six years ago, in Moscow, the ancient bell tower of the Holy Monastery was demolished. The Church of St. Nicholas the Evangelized on the Arbat suffered the same fate.
              It is the clergy that is the notorious enemy of antiquity, and it has arrogated to itself the right to destroy what it is to protect, and how stubborn it is in its conservatism and inertness in terms of ideas, it is so zealous in terms of exterminating monuments.

              This is Count Alexei Konstantinovich Tolstoy (1817-1875) wrote in a letter to Alexander II.
              Quote: RUSS
              why destroyed hundreds if not thousands of village churches?

              In most cases, they decayed and collapsed themselves, as the Bolsheviks quite reasonably pushed the ROC away from the state budget. And the peasants had more important things to do than keep disgusted priests with their buildings.
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 2 February 2018 12: 30
                +9
                Yes, these pseudo-monarchists are illiterate .. heard the ring and don’t know where he is .. snippets of rumors yes a lot of lies here is their source of knowledge ..
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 2 February 2018 14: 40
                +4
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Regrettably, prisons and hospitals are needed even under socialism.

                From temples of the 12th century, as in Suzdal, Moscow and hundreds of other cities. The barbarians who destroyed Rome from the statues of the broken-built huts were also "necessary" yes
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Unless they are objects of historical and artistic value.

                And ALL the main monuments blown up to the heroes of World War II, the bones of Bagration, etc., etc., scattered for fun to dogs, are not worth it, yes. That bath is yes!
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Professor Kostomarov, returning from a trip with scientific purposes to Novgorod and Pskov, visited me and told

                You see, carrots also look like hell, but different things. WHAT do you compare the destruction of TENS of THOUSAND PAYMATS, itsoric buildings with the casuses of Russian life ?! Only in KREMLIN destroyed more than HALF of the most unique monument buildings, the devastation in the Golden Ring of Russia (the defeat of Suzdal, etc.) and so on throughout the country for SEVERAL years. From the monuments, they arranged ... quarries! Have you ever studied the history of your country, a lover of "prison and hospital".,
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                In most cases, they decayed and collapsed themselves, as the Bolsheviks quite reasonably pushed the ROC away from the state budget. And the peasants had more important things to do than keep disgusted priests with their buildings.

                You speak for yourself, and not peasants, they didn’t give you that right.
                1. rkkasa xnumx
                  rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 15: 15
                  +9
                  No, a cool thing - if the Bolsheviks demolish, then this is horrible, terrible; but if demolished under the tsar, then this is just an incident of Russian life laughing laughing

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Only in KREMLIN destroyed more than HALF of the most unique monument buildings

                  Well, if you want, let's talk about the Kremlin:
                  the beginning of the XNUMXth century saw the demolition of many ancient buildings. Among others, the famous Stamp Gate, Sretensky Cathedral, part of the Amusement Palace, several churches of the Ascension Monastery, as well as complexes of the Khlebenny Palace, Tsareborisov Yard and Trinity Compound were destroyed.
                  In 1817, a parade ground was set up on Ivanovo Square for a military parade, for which the ancient church of St. Nicholas Gostunsky was dismantled in one night.
                  The small church of St. John the Baptist on Bor was dismantled, then all the old palace buildings, with the exception of the Terem Palace, the Faceted and the Small Golden Chambers, were dismantled.
                  In 1844-1851, a new building of the Armory was erected according to the Tone project; the old chamber was rebuilt into barracks.
                  Reached the Bolsheviks damned am angry am angry
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: rkkasa 81
                    Well, if you want, let's talk about the Kremlin

                    Once again: carrot is not horseradish, although similar.
                    The natural development of the Kremlin listed by you is something nit was gradually deteriorating something new gradually under construction. So it was ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE.

                    You demolished at once 27 buildings-monuments and contrary to the opinion of ALL scientists, the Church, the people. Can’t you catch it again?

                    And across Russia, TENS of thousands of monuments and historical buildings were demolished.
              3. RUSS
                RUSS 2 February 2018 20: 01
                +3
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                In most cases, they decayed and collapsed themselves,

                Are you having trouble reading? I’m telling you that the churches were DESTROYED, and not themselves dilapidated as you say.
            2. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 12: 07
              +8
              Quote: RUSS
              what important so necessary objects are we talking about

              For example, Vladimir, and the Vladimir region:
              Dmitrievsky Cathedral (1197) - museum
              Rizopolozhenskaya Gate Church (1810) - military history museum "Golden Gate"
              Nikitsky Church (1765) - closed in 1937 artel "metal repair"
              St. Nicholas Church (1761) - converted to planetarium
              Church of Myrrh-Bearing Women on the street Mironositskaya (K. Marx) - demolished in 1929, on the site of the temple House
              St. Nicholas and Zlatovrat Church on B. Moscow, 9 (1690, 1796) - destroyed in 1929, on the site of the church House
              Lutheran church on the street Noble, 15 - on the site of the temple House
              Suzdal: Rizpolozhensky Cathedral - chapters were taken apart, served as a room for power substations
              Suzdal: Entrance Jerusalem Church - used as garage
              Suzdal: Church of Demetrius of Solunsky (1773, 1812) - demolished for the construction of the city Baths
              Quote: RUSS
              Impudent and not covered lie

              Impudent and undisguised lies, this is your nonsense of priests.
              In general, since Peter I all church property belonged to the state. In 1917, this state did not become, and the Bolsheviks had every right to dispose of church property at their discretion.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 2 February 2018 14: 42
                +3
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Church of Demetrius of Solunsky (1773, 1812) - dismantled for the construction of a city bath

                The unique church of Russian baroque. It was. A quarry was built and a stone bath was built ...
                . Psychopaths could only do this and hate Russia.
                1. rkkasa xnumx
                  rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 16: 28
                  +9
                  The unique Church of the Nativity of John the Baptist on Bor - Moscow oldest churchlocated in the Kremlin.
                  The church was demolished in 1847 year at the personal command of Nicholas I.
                  Psychopaths could only do this, and haters of Russia.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 3 February 2018 07: 15
                    0
                    Quote: rkkasa 81
                    The unique Church was demolished in 1847 at the personal command of Nicholas I.

                    It is unique only in YOUR inflamed brain: it burned several times, collapsed, rebuilt many times, and as a result we got a remake, but dilapidated. The temple itself was moved to the Kremlin Tower and destroyed by the boleviks.
                    The Kremlin, a living creature, the heart of Russia, grew, grew old, gradually updated, there are several historical layers, if you think what it is.
                    You -DIRECTLY destroyed more than half as not done no gangster or invader. Again, didn’t get it? belay
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 3 February 2018 07: 04
                0
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                For example, Vladimir,

                By the way, in Vladimir stupid animals in the 1930s destroyed the church with MEMORIAL BOARDS names of Heroes of World War II, natives of Vladimir land.
                So that the Russians forget that they are Russians.
                Т
            3. long in stock.
              long in stock. 2 February 2018 12: 27
              +8
              what's next? if you are a believer, go and rebuild. the fight was not with the church, as the church is known, and it lived quietly under the communists. the fight went for the people and the church lost it. can remind me at least 1 proverb where the pop is shown from a positive point of view? there are no such..
          4. ALEA IACTA EST
            ALEA IACTA EST 2 February 2018 12: 24
            +5
            Which plant was prevented from being built by the monument to the hero of the Battle of Borodino, and whose good was the ruin of Bagration’s grave?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 2 February 2018 14: 48
              +4
              Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
              Which plant was prevented from being built by the monument to the hero of the Battle of Borodino, and whose good was the ruin of Bagration’s grave?

              The hatred of the Heroes of the Patriotic War among the Bolsheviks is generally beyond reason:
              ALL main monuments were demolished: CSU, Borodino field, in Belarus, Maloyaroslavets, near Krasnoye, etc. , demolished monuments at Semenovsky, Dragomilovsky cemeteries in Moscow, built on the bones ... cinemas and houses.
        2. long in stock.
          long in stock. 2 February 2018 09: 02
          13
          food surplus. is this what the tsarist government came up with? robbery and destruction? and robbing people under the guise of faith is apparently good? on transport in wartime punished? or maybe those who put a soldier in 1914 in Prussia punished? maybe they punished those who put rot in the army? no .. maybe they punished those guilty of the constant hunger of the people? also no .. that's why the revolution happened .. due to the inability of the ruling class to rule the country .. apparently Rasputin is a representative of a just cause ..
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 09: 27
            +7
            Quote: Long in stock.
            and rob people under the guise of faith is


            Excuse me, but who "robbed the people"? Church? Donations for which were voluntary, and, unlike party contributions, no one forced to pay.
            Quote: Long in stock.
            perpetrators of hunger in a warring country punished

            You probably mean Germany? Because in Russia, unlike Germany, there wasn’t a trace of those rutabaga stews and ersatz bread that the Germans ate.
            Quote: Long in stock.
            those who laid soldiers in 1914 in Prussia punished

            Guilty of defeat in East Prussia, General Samsonov. And for his guilt, he punished himself. The hardest punishment.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 2 February 2018 09: 56
              11
              yeah .. there were no hunger riots .. 15 g the city of Bogorodsk began a hunger riot, ended in a strike where, according to police, 80 thousand people participated. Historians record deprivations of the population caused by food shortages and price escalations. In Petrograd, for example, “women were forced to stand in queues for hours at freezing temperatures to buy some sugar and cereals,” and by December 1915, after a year of war, “the hopeless search for food, fuel, and price increases had become intolerable features of everyday life” . The crisis intensified especially in two Russian cities: in the first years of the war, prices for vital goods increased by 131% in Moscow and by more than 150% in Petrograd. This is written by Barbara Engle, a professor at the University of Colorado Nirazu, not a Bolshevik ... in your of reality, of course, only the Germans ate rutabaga ... of course Samson is to blame, he’s the commander in chief. And he fought there. He took the army and went without asking anyone and not reporting to anyone ... it’s very convenient to blame the one who died .. now the church .. I understand that you are not very literate, I already managed to make sure from your posts but .. Church tithe was canceled only at the end of the 19th century .. not long ago from these events. And yes, try not to pay .. what is a metric book and who filled it you apparently have no idea .. read more .. preferably a book and not the same with the contact ..
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 11: 03
                +5
                Quote: Long in stock.
                it writes Barbara Engle professor at the University of Colorado

                Where did you find such a professor about which information even in Skopus, the international publication network, cannot be found?
                About the "hunger riot in Bogorodsk" also there is no data. Strikes and protests were in the country, but they were caused by rising prices. It was. But about the hunger riots — even in the leaflets of the Bolsheviks of those years there is nothing.
                Quote: Long in stock.
                and one fought there. He took the army and went without asking anyone and not reporting to anyone ...

                Sorry, but are you serious now or just pretend to be ... alternatively gifted? Samsonov — commander of the 2nd army. Lost command and control of the defeat — lies with him. This is an immutable rule of all the armies of the world — the commander is responsible for command and control. If he lost control — responsibility on him and only on him.
                Quote: Long in stock.
                Church tithe was canceled only at the end of the 19th century

                Please provide a link to the Code of Laws of the Russian Empire. Which says about the abolition of tithing, and that it existed in the 19th century. Before that, your words are just unfounded statements.
              2. Varyag_0711
                Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 11: 44
                14
                Vladimir, hi why do you explain simple truths to them, they still will not appreciate. Teterin said that he’s "fond of it," so it is, you can only believe the fakes that he is actively distributing to VO here. laughing
                Do not feed the trolls, they are not worth it!
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 13: 04
                  +5
                  And, Mr. Varyag, who regrets that not all Russian people were killed in the 20th century, do you get in touch again with unsubstantiated accusations? You, as I recall, did not manage to refute a single "fake", limiting yourself only to attempts at ridicule and streams of abuse.
                  1. Varyag_0711
                    Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 13: 37
                    14
                    Lieutenant Teterin Today, 13:04 ↑
                    You, as I recall, have not managed to refute a single “fake”
                    First, you can refute what exists in nature, and not in your sick mind.
                    Secondly, your fakes have been denied 100500 times, but you either have complete silence on this, or an answer like “vsevsereti”.
                    Thirdly, it’s not in my habit to feed trolls like you and others like you.
                    And, Mr. Varyag, regretting that not all Russian people were killed in the 20th century
                    Do not flatter yourself, you are not Russian, so I would have shot you with great pleasure. And then, the fact that the person on the passport is Russian does not yet make him RUSSIAN. Your ideological inspirers Krasnov, Shkuro, Vlasov, also sort of like "Russian".
                    1. Lieutenant Teterin
                      Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 15: 20
                      +3
                      Quote: Varyag_0711
                      First, you can refute what exists in nature, and not in your sick mind.
                      Secondly, your fakes have been denied 100500 times, but you either have complete silence on this, or an answer like “vsevsereti”.

                      This answer of yours perfectly confirms the fact that you have no banal arguments. But the hatred of people who do not agree with your position and the desire to quarrel, using comments on "IN" for this.
                      Quote: Varyag_0711
                      Do not flatter yourself, you are not Russian

                      Whether you like it or not, I’m Russian — and not only according to my passport, but also in fact, because my loyalty is given to my Motherland — Russia and its thousand-year history. Unlike.
                      Quote: Varyag_0711
                      I would shoot you with great pleasure.

                      Mr. Varyag, keep up the good work, I ask you! After all, these your words are the best confirmation of my words about the barbarism of leftist ideas and their destructive influence both on society and on the personality of individuals. And note that we — monarchists, conservatives, and simply supporters of right-wing ideas — are much more respectful of human life and the observance of the law.
                      1. Varyag_0711
                        Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 15: 29
                        10
                        Lieutenant Teterin Today, 15:20 ↑
                        This answer of yours perfectly confirms the fact that you have no banal arguments.
                        Your position is trite. The problem is that you do not need counterarguments for one simple reason, namely the one I wrote about above:

                        The truth in your case is that you, and olgovich, and Teterin, and other anti-advisers and soldiers for the "crunch of French rolls", there are none other than mishandled Cossacks working for the collapse of Russia! There is no truth in your words from the word at all, this is the true truth. Everything else is a lie and an attempt to falsify the Soviet past. The system by which you act is already so beaten that in fact it’s not looking at you that is sickening and disgusting, but just in parallel. You can’t convince anyone that you are right here in VO anyway, most of all here are people with education, combat experience, and most people think, and it’s at least difficult to deceive them, if not impossible. In addition, everything that you sculpt here, exposing for allegedly "truth", all this was already 30 years ago, when the Soviet Union collapsed. Now you have decided to adopt the same cliches as you did then, that is, your overseas curators either finished their fiction, or they decided not to bathe and go along the path already beaten in the 90s. Yes, what a trouble, we have a long memory and we perfectly remember what such conversations lead to.
                        That's the whole TRUTH about you olgovich, Teterin and other disadvantages!
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 2 February 2018 16: 52
                        +2
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        Mr. Varyag, keep up the good work, I ask you! After all, these your words are the best confirmation of my words about barbarism of leftist ideas

                        Accurate remark!
                        And ALL of them prefer to communicate at a level BELOW the belt: obscenities, etc.
                      3. avva2012
                        avva2012 2 February 2018 17: 24
                        +8
                        Lieutenant Teterin
                        And note that we — monarchists, conservatives, and simply supporters of right-wing ideas — are much more respectful of human life and the observance of the law.

                        "The verdict-order" of the peasants with. Kazakov, Arzamas county, Nizhny Novgorod province. ....... Although we do not want to make elections to the State Duma, where people with a big pocket will sit and there will only be a meeting with the people, not legislation, we are afraid to violate the will of the Sovereign and believe His word that He will this will not stop, but will wipe away our tears and make our hearts happy, as I rejoiced on the 17 of October. After all, he himself showed that "the sorrow of the people is My sorrow." So we have chosen our electoral villagers from among our people, who seem more honorable to us and ask them to present and read to everyone about what has become painful for us. And we express our needs in writing: so, in words you can forget a lot. But our needs are great: we need our rights to be equal with everyone, we need to have no nobles, nor merchants, or spiritual, and all people and faithful servants of the Tsar, we need the court to be the same for all, for all “Fast and gracious”, we need our children to learn everything for free not only in primary education, but also further, we need the present policemen: guards, police officers, to be replaced by our elected police. All kinds of exactions lie upon us: redemption payments, excise taxes and other indirect taxes, because we do not trade and do not engage in large-scale fisheries, we only cultivate the land. We need these taxes to be borne by the rich, all the same they spend a lot of money on their pleasures to no avail. And our most necessary need is that we have very little land; on 600 male souls, only 1 697 1 / 2 tithes are convenient and uncomfortable, and next to us is the monastery land, which he himself cannot cultivate, are the sovereign’s lands, specific and privately owned, some could be cut and others bought with a bank . We also need our soldiers to live better in the tsarist service and pay more salaries, our soldiers also need their husbands, who went to distant Manchuria or came home crippled, in imperial royal mercy, but then they brought the year, but they don’t have anything - promises alone. It is necessary that the elections for the Tsar’s Duma be the same for all rich and poor and that they directly get out of the Duma and that no officials bother us to discuss our needs. We need our priests to be paid from the treasury, then it will not be us from them at crowding and resentment. If all this happens, then we will try to always serve faithfully to the Tsar-Batyushka. Having discussed this verdict and expressed our urgent needs and necessary, we ask our delegates, for the sake of the Lord God and the welfare of Russia, not to curse before God and our conscience, to read this verdict in front of everyone at the parish and pass it on to other electors in the county, and let them they will transfer him to the province, and from there to the State Duma. They decided to print a copy from this sentence in the newspapers so that they could see everything that we were not hiding from good people. We represent the right to express to the commissioner and from ourselves that we have forgotten, but only that which will be for the common good - the mother of Russia and Batyushka Tsar. We subscribe to this. Followed by signature. "Nizhny Novgorod Zemstvo newspaper" 1905.
                        ps bringing people to such a life, you are very respectful of human life.
            2. alstr
              alstr 2 February 2018 12: 13
              11
              Yeah. Especially funny about volunteering. And the fact that at every church the elder sat and wrote down who came and who did not - this does not count. And he came, he had to buy a candle in order to defend the service. Well and so on.
              At the same time, this concerned ALL religions. Those. if you are a Muslim, then everything is the same, but in a mosque.
              And if you still read the penal code, then it will be completely fun.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 12: 59
                +4
                Quote: alstr
                And the fact that at every church the elder sat and wrote down who came and who did not - this does not count. And he came, he had to buy a candle in order to defend the service. Well and so on.

                What law contains the requirement for this headman? Can you provide a link?
                1. alstr
                  alstr 2 February 2018 14: 39
                  12
                  The post of headman was established by Peter the Great in 1721.
                  There were also Confessional murals, which actually marked the visit and confession.
                  And in educational institutions for absenteeism services for no good reason, the mark on behavior decreased.
                  And for parents who did not take their children to church, there was a corresponding article of the code (220).
                  And for non-attendance there was article 219 of the penal code.
                  That was such a "voluntariness."
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 15: 23
                    +3
                    I’ll give you a link to a document, where such duties of the elder are registered at the beginning of the 20th century?
                    1. alstr
                      alstr 2 February 2018 15: 42
                      10
                      The question was: "In what law is the requirement for this elder?"
                      Therefore, the answer was about when the post appeared.
                      If the question is about their job descriptions, then they also exist.
                      See Y. Ivanovsky, "A Brief Summary of Laws Relating to Church Elders" ("Instructions to Ts. Elders", with explanations and additions, St. Petersburg, 1891); P. Nechaev, "A Practical Guide for Clergymen" (ed. 7, St. Petersburg, 1900).

                      And about the fact that accounting was mandatory, you can even read in the Wiki:
                      "In 1716, Peter I issued a decree" On going to confession every year, on a fine for failure to comply with this rule, and on the situation of splitters with a double salary, "the decree ordered the confessors to submit secular authorities inscribed lists of unconfessed. However, this decree is the first years continued to fail to be executed; only from 1718 did the first murals begin to be drawn up. [1] On March 7, 1722, the Synod adopted a decree that obliged all parishioners to “have confession and communion, beginning at age 7, with their priest.” Absent for more than a year in their parish could confess and take communion with another clergyman, but after that they should have submitted a certificate to the church at the place of residence. which existed practically unchanged until their cancellation, was determined by decree of the Empress Anna Ioannovna in 1722. The need for confessional painting was canceled only in 16. However, in individual parishes, they continued to be compiled some time after. According to the bulletin of the RSFSR Central Archive of May 1737, 1917, all confessional murals, beginning in 25 and later, were to be destroyed in the archives as having no historical value. [1927] [1865] [2]. "
            3. avva2012
              avva2012 2 February 2018 16: 53
              +8
              Lieutenant Teterin
              Excuse me, but who "robbed the people"? Church? Donations for which were voluntary, and, unlike party contributions, no one forced to pay.

              1905 November 2. - “The verdict-order” of the peasants with. Kazakov, Arzamas county, Nizhny Novgorod province ...
              So they began to think: would such a Duma benefit us, where only people with a big pocket would fall: big merchants, landowners, priests, nobles, but not us, poor people ...
              The priests just live in exactions, take eggs, wool, hemp from us, and strive, as if to go for money more often with prayers, he died - he takes the money, he takes not as much as he likes, but how much he pleases. And a hungry year will happen, he won’t wait until a good year, but give him the last, and 33 himself would have tithes of land, and it would be a sin to take bread, build a house for him at his own expense for the last crumbs, you won’t build and serve will not. ...
              On October 17, Sovereign Father gave the greatest mercy: he called us free citizens, allowed us to gather anywhere and gave freedom of conscience. And so the good people began to celebrate the day of great mercy, began to gather around the cities of great Russia, and the guards, officers, police officers, police officers and all officials who did not think such mercy, as well as spiritual fathers and Black Hundreds, hooligans hired by moneybags merchants began to incite dark people beat those who wish us well, who were in prison for us, went to hard labor and to the gallows. And she went to all the cities massacre. ...
              We need our priests to be on a salary from the treasury, then there will be no oppression and resentment from us.
              1906 March 5. - Sentence of peasants of the Nikolaev volost of the Ardatovsky district of the Nizhny Novgorod province in the State Duma ...
              The priests only live with exactions, take eggs, wool with us and strive to walk more often, as it were, with money: died - money, born - money, confessed - money, married - money, takes not as much as he gives, but how much he pleases. And a hungry year happens, he won’t wait until a good year, and give him the last, and 36 himself has tithing (along with the clergy) of the earth, and it would be a sin to take bread, build his house at his own expense, for the last crumbs obtained by us not later, but by blood. If you don’t build and serve, perhaps it won’t, it would be good, but perhaps it’s so that although the priest, urging on some highly solemn holiday, although the “Easter”, asks the parishioners to build him a house, in case of refusal of the priest’s request, then he will not go with prayers for this refusal and on such a holiday and, perhaps, in his anger at the departure of the liturgy, they will not let the saints go. a cross, and if it comes with prayers, but only by choice, who will give him the construction of the house 10-15 cop. from home, and whoever doesn’t give it, then it won’t work at all, that this happened in one of our parishes ....
              It is necessary that our priests are on a salary from the treasury, then we will not be oppressed and resentful of them, and that the whole parish clergy should be chosen by us, parishioners, and not as it is now, appointed by the diocesan authorities.
              1906 April is earlier than 30. - From the sentence of the peasants of the Makaryevsky district of the Nizhny Novgorod province to the I State Duma ...
              7) All the peasants are secretly offended by the church clergy, and no one wants to declare this. The present priests are alien to the peasants, they do not go to the peasants in the villages to baptize children, they take as much as they want for the wedding, they take money for themselves for holiday prayers in the church, as well as for funerals at the church and for graves at churches. All this peasants - dark people - outraged. Churches were built by our great-grandfathers, and completely visiting people manage. It is necessary to change all this. If there were no peasants, then there would be no need for churches either. And if there were no churches, then there would be no priests. Put a salary for all priests, for which they should teach the Law of God at schools without special surcharge. And also to establish that they didn’t take for a wedding, they would go to villages to baptize for free, for the graves to receive money for the church’s income, and don’t make any extortion from the coming monks - free of charge. Churches should be exempted from taxes, and priests should depend entirely on the parish. By the verdict of the parish, they must be accepted and dismissed, and must also be in the churches, under the supervision of church elders, parish books, which should be checked by the guardian vaults. Expenses incurred without convictions of the board of trustees shall not be accepted ...
              1906 May 23. - The order of the peasants of the Shoptovo volost of the Velsky district of the Smolensk province in the I State Duma
              Then we would like to abolish the robbery by the priesthood, which is very common in our village; namely, they take 10-15 rubles for the wedding, 7 rubles for the funeral, and if the priest lifts the body, then 15 rubles, for the christening 1 rubles, for the moleben a simple 30 cop., with the akathist —- 50 cop. We peasants at this gathering decided not to give this board the power of the owner. We are poor peasants and so are being torn from all sides without the “God's servants” who receive their salaries, use the income and the first land.Sentences and orders of the peasants of Central Russia. 1905-1907 years
            4. avva2012
              avva2012 2 February 2018 17: 36
              +5
              Sentence of the Tonkin volost gathering of the Varnavinsky district of the Kostroma province
              The Tonkin volost gathering in quantity ... * decides: we are, every year more and more impoverished and ruined. The reason is "" ** inheritance29; he squeezed us so that it was not life for us, but one torment. He entangled us with various contracts and slowly sucks our strength and blood from our veins ... * Neither poles nor logs can be cut down to us in the specific forest, now acts, courts, fines, expulsions and even murders. And hopeless hope makes us do something - not to freeze us and our children, kids, from the winter cold. Each of us can buy firewood and woods, and whoever can, so he can hardly get off the check sheets without a court, under one contract. Then the current crop failure finally drives us into the most misery, now many of us no longer have rye bread, but what will happen in the spring? We have no defenders. Zemsky chiefs are not our defenders. They were delivered to us mainly only in order to judge us in favor of inheritance and to receive rewards from it for that. Volost government does not serve us, but we are forced to serve it; when we decided to declare the need of our Zemstvo government, that they were only fooling us around and robbing us, that we were given almost half the seeds of the insensitive for seeding, that we were threatened by the failure of the next year, that the old officers and officers for taxes and fines were ready for the last to tear a piece of bread from our half-starved kids from our mouth, - so
              * Pass in the document. What do the zemstvo chief with the volost government want to do with us? He ordered the arrest of our commissioner, to collect taxes, he promised to plant in the cold everyone who signed this paper! And the clerk, among others, composed a false sentence about good winter crops and arranged for some of us to subscribe to it. What does it mean? This means that we, among the cold, from the hungry, from the dark, tear out a piece of bread and at the same time do not give any opportunity to cast their voice. This means that we are deliberately pushed into the grave from starvation, and we could not say a word against it! ...... We decide to print our verdict in the newspapers and publicly, so that everyone knows that we are no longer slaves Yes, and working patient cattle, but that we are people and we have reason, conscience and soul.
        3. V. Salama
          V. Salama 3 February 2018 16: 52
          +1
          Quote: Korsar4
          Food Survey. The robbery and destruction of the Temples. Is it a beneficence? Trotsky - the representative of a just cause?

          Find in the history of the white movement, I’m not talking about memoirs and utterances such as General Slashchev, they served with the Reds and you don’t have faith in how many white items were plundered by the church — you'll be very surprised. I hope you know the numbers how much requisitioned by the red and what they spent. Then compare and draw conclusions.
  5. rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 2 February 2018 07: 00
    13
    “It would be a mistake to consider that during the civil war in Russia we fought there for a white cause. No, it’s white who fought for our interests ”
    Winston Churchill


    The Soviet leadership knew perfectly well about this:
    1. novel66
      novel66 2 February 2018 07: 44
      12
      people knew perfectly
      MUNDIR ENGLISH ...

      English uniform
      Shoulder strap french
      Japanese tobacco,
      Omsk ruler.

      Chorus:

      Oh, my scumbag
      American,
      There will be no money
      I'll take it for sale!

      The uniform has been torn down
      Epaulet fell
      Tobacco smoked,
      The ruler was washed away.

      Omsk occupied
      Irkutsk taken away
      And with a scumbag
      Kolchak was taken.
    2. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 08: 26
      +5
      In fact, Churchill had in mind that the Entente saw in the white successors the cause of the struggle of the Russian imperial army with the German bloc. And as soon as peace was signed with Germany, the Entente countries began the evacuation of their troops from Russia.
      1. venaya
        venaya 2 February 2018 08: 44
        +3
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        .. Churchill meant that the Entente saw in the white successors the cause of the struggle of the Russian imperial army with the German bloc ..

        It was a matter of only one rather important nuance: February goal it was precisely to exclude in all cases Russia as a country winner in the subsequent distribution of indemnities as a result of the Entente victory. This was the main condition for the entry of the hitherto neutral US. Otherwise, why did they organize this whole “February” followed by the “October”? "October, according to their plans, was to finally destroy all the remains of Russia on the planet.
      2. V. Salama
        V. Salama 4 February 2018 19: 57
        +1
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        In fact, Churchill had in mind that the Entente saw in the white successors the cause of the struggle of the Russian imperial army with the German bloc. And as soon as peace was signed with Germany, the Entente countries began the evacuation of their troops from Russia.

        I didn’t want to get into this dead matter - to argue for the sake of argument, but I can not help but ask: Lieutenant, who told you this? What white-emigrant agitation do you study the history of the country to which your allegiance has been given? Better take Wikipedia and read about the Intervention - have fun and give some thought.
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 3 February 2018 07: 19
      0
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      The Soviet leadership knew perfectly well about this:

      What would these NEVER NEVER WORK great-old LOBBIES-know? fool lol
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 15: 11
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        What would these NEVER NEVER WORK great-old LOBBIES-know?

        How did these “walkers” manage to build such a state and economy? Today, the leadership has everything with a higher education, only that they have destroyed the entire legacy from the Soviet government.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 4 February 2018 07: 52
          0
          Quote: Alexander Green
          How did these “slammers" managed such a state and economy build?

          Where is it? Have you looked out the window for the last 30 years?
          Casualties during the "construction" remember (Russian Cross ")?
          And all in vain !.
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Today, the leadership has everything with a higher education, only that they have destroyed the entire legacy from the Soviet government.

          YOUR Communists have destroyed and that little that was good.
          1. chenia
            chenia 4 February 2018 11: 13
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            Where is it? Have you looked out the window for the last 30 years?


            Outside the window. Thanks to the communists from Russia, something else remains.

            The liberals would have won the stars in 1917, it would have been like in Ukraine (but without the Soviet backlog). wretched dung country. And torn to pieces.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 February 2018 11: 49
              0
              Quote: chenia
              Outside the window.

              Outside the window is the Russian Tricolor, the Two-headed Eagle and no Bolsheviks.
              Quote: chenia
              Thanks to the communists from Russia, something else remains.

              Yes, thanks to them, only “something” is left of Russia, and it remains, Like the people.
              Quote: chenia
              The liberals would have won the stars in 1917, it would have been like in Ukraine (but without the Soviet backlog). wretched dung country.

              ANYWHERE there were no Communists-and nothing-people lived and live and much betterthan under the communists.
              By the way, the daughters-granddaughters of Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Anropov, Suslov-remember-WHERE do they live? yes
              Quote: chenia
              And torn to pieces.

              And it fell apart into pieces, sliced ​​by the Bolsheviks. Do not remember already?
              1. chenia
                chenia 4 February 2018 15: 16
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                Outside the window is the Russian Tricolor, the Two-headed Eagle and no Bolsheviks.


                Yes, but the Russian Federation is not the level of the USSR. Maybe because there is no commies in power.
                And why do not you resent why the population of the Russian Federation is not growing as in commies?
                That would be an increase as in the USSR, then the Russian Federation on 25-30 million. So think about how to feed, dress. to learn. to heal. build housing, etc.

                Quote: Olgovich
                Yes, thanks to them, only “something” is left of Russia, and it remains, Like the people.


                You are sane, I have already shown a thousand times the loss, and asked to think. But for you this is apparently too complicated an action.

                Quote: Olgovich
                ANYWHERE there were no Communists — and nothing — people lived and live, and much better than under the Communists.
                By the way, the daughters-granddaughters of Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Anropov, Suslov-remember-WHERE do they live?


                Almost everyone lives under capitalism, but Live in only in the countries of the golden billion (meaning the people and not the elite).

                Children of the elite have a separate conversation (although many died for their country. Why don’t you remember these?). But what about the modern elite? (There is no point in continuing incommensurably with the life of Stalin’s daughter in an almshouse.)

                What do you think the autonomy did not fall off under the Provisional (Poland, by the way, fell down then). And who would keep them?

                Are you so naive or quite .......?
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 2 February 2018 07: 15
    11
    “It would be a mistake to consider that during the civil war in Russia we fought there for a white cause. No, it's white who fought for our interests. ”Winston Churchill
    ... Well, who, who, and Churchill knew what he was saying ....
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 2 February 2018 08: 03
      +6
      Quote: parusnik
      “It would be a mistake to consider that during the civil war in Russia we fought there for a white cause. No, it's white who fought for our interests. ”Winston Churchill
      ... Well, who, who, and Churchill knew what he was saying ....

      Well, of course! It is strange that in general the cheers patriots refer to Churchill, this figure laid the foundation for the Cold War and already in the 40s was preparing a plan for the bombing of the Union.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 2 February 2018 08: 19
        15
        Yes, he doesn’t hide it, he wrote a whole book about how he fought against Bolshevism, but you are also fighting him, against Bolshevism ....
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 08: 40
          +5
          Churchill was a convinced Russophobe, and through rare words of respect for Russia, hatred erupted under his cover, like a mask on the slogan of the fight against Bolshevism.
          Russophobia and the struggle against common evil are often combined in one person. Truman, for example, fought Nazism, as did the Russian people. But Russophobe at the same time was pretty ...
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 2 February 2018 09: 05
            +9
            god again blunders ... what Truman? actually Roosevelt .. when you become literate ..
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 09: 35
              +5
              Teach history, please.
              In a narrow circle, Truman said bluntly: "The Russians will soon be put in place, and then the United States will take over the leadership of the development of the world along the path along which it should be led."

              These are the words of Truman. And his policy was strikingly different from Roosevelt's. During the Second World War, he was the chairman of the Senate Committee, and then the Vice President. Yes, he fought against Nazism, being in a managerial position in the same way as Churchill during the years of WWII.
              So dear, you would rather teach a story instead of “convicting” cries.
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 2 February 2018 10: 15
                10
                what are you ?? it must be said that Truman fought with Nazism .. the quote you quoted above shows that you definitely need to study .. Roosevelt led the state throughout the war and was a very consistent opponent of Nazism. April 12, 1945, after Roosevelt’s sudden death, Truman, according to the constitution USA, took the presidency. How much did it remain until May 9? Well, the paths of the movement of thoughts through the maze of your brain are inscrutable
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 11: 15
                  +4
                  Dear, do you read my posts at all? I told you in black and white that Truman was one of the officials responsible for US actions during the war. The Senate Defense Committee and Vice President are significant posts. Understand that only the president participated in the fight against Nazism, but also many other US officials. And Truman also took part in the fight against the Germans in these posts. And I gave a quote to confirm his Russophobia, if you did not immediately understand it.
                2. Varyag_0711
                  Varyag_0711 2 February 2018 11: 48
                  13
                  long in stock. Today, 10:15 ↑ New
                  MDA are inscrutable ways of the movement of thoughts through the maze of your brain ..
                  Vladimir, there’s no brain from the word at all, there is only what is written in American manuals. After all, neither Teterin, nor Olgovich, not a single thought of his own, only stamps no more.
          2. parusnik
            parusnik 2 February 2018 10: 54
            +2
            Russophobia and the struggle against common evil are often combined in one person.
            ... And what is the common evil? ... More specifically ...
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 12: 56
              +3
              A common evil is an adversary threatening the same peoples.
              1. parusnik
                parusnik 2 February 2018 15: 36
                +7
                How streamlined ... but back to the phrase of W. Churchill, with which the article begins .. Since it was established from your comments that Churchill was a Russophobe, it turns out that the notorious Russophobe supported the fighters for “one and not divisible”, but also the Baltic, Transcaucasian and Central Asian separatists against common evil?
      2. V. Salama
        V. Salama 3 February 2018 17: 08
        +1
        Quote: RUSS

        Well, of course! It is strange that in general the cheers patriots refer to Churchill, this figure laid the foundation for the Cold War and already in the 40s was preparing a plan for the bombing of the Union.

        It is strange that such a banality is laid in the form of an argument. This property is inherent in urapatriots, actually. Churchill was a serious enemy, but this does not mean that he could not speak directly in situations where he was silent or lying - to humiliate himself.
        He also said that "... the Soviet people should be grateful to Stalin for having entered the war without a fifth column." And this is more relevant than ever, try to object.
    2. Gopnik
      Gopnik 2 February 2018 13: 00
      +4
      Of course I knew. The British did not really fight for the White Cause, openly sabotaging the struggle against Bolshevism and throwing their allies. And whites who fought alone with this plague, with this ISIS of the 20th century, fought for the interests of all progressive mankind.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 2 February 2018 17: 05
        +9
        The British did not fight for the White Cause
        .. Correct, for the White Cause fought for the interests of the British, as Churchill writes about this ...
        And the whites who fought alone with this plague, with this ISIS of the 20th century
        ... Oh how, it means the Nazis in 1941 began an operation to appease the plague ... with helpers such as S. Bandera and others ...
  7. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 2 February 2018 08: 13
    +8
    the elimination of social parasites that oppress the masses

    Priests, officers, industrialists, intelligentsia, prosperous peasants are social parasites.
    Deserters, declassed workers, criminals, the ever-drunken rural poor are oppressed masses.
    Comrade, do not confuse!
    White fought for the interests of the West

    White fought for Russia. Reds - for the international and world revolution. To whom, but my Fatherland and my people are closer to me, not the international, whose center for some reason was the original Russian city of Londongrad.
    And yes, for the words about the "red empire" the author would have been shot in the 30s as a counter-revolutionary.
    1. venaya
      venaya 2 February 2018 08: 28
      +5
      Quote: Dzmicer
      .. White fought for Russia. ..

      Why did they organize the February Revolution? Original perception of Russian interests. Is not it? Really in the interests of Russia was this very rout of Russia, intelligibly outlined in "Decree No. 1". Didn't Prince Lvov sign it, according to the teachings of A. Kerensky and compiled by the deputy of the Petrosoviet Sokolov?
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 08: 37
        +7
        Dear, the February revolution was organized by people who are not welcomed in the White movement. Prince Lvov, for example, fled to the USA as soon as possible, and then to Paris. Judah-Guchkov hanged around Denikin, and then just as well escaped to "establish ties" to England.
      2. Dzmicer
        Dzmicer 2 February 2018 08: 39
        +7
        Why did they organize the February Revolution?

        Russian man is strong in hindsight.
        And yes, do not spread the guilt of specific conspirators to all Russian people who joined the ranks of the volunteer army.
        1. venaya
          venaya 2 February 2018 08: 57
          +6
          Quote: Dzmicer
          .. do not extend the guilt of specific conspirators to all Russian people who joined the ranks of the volunteer army

          You would count the number of these very "specific conspirators." It is incomprehensible to the mind, but there were practically all the upper layers of society, and the emperor’s relatives, and almost the entire highest command of the Tsar’s Army (with the exception of only two people), and the church itself, which is not at all explained by simple logic. And what did the professors do at universities and universities? Almost everything, absolutely everything, worked for the collapse of the country, as well as later in 1991, similarly. That is, the management cadres of the empire worked for its collapse. Now, even today, on this VO site, how many do you count? And after all, they are most active, obviously not for nothing.
          1. Dzmicer
            Dzmicer 2 February 2018 09: 30
            +5
            That is, the management cadres of the empire worked for its collapse

            These people worked for what they considered good. But they considered it a blessing that they had been put into their heads by progressive professors and progressive media, who had worked for the revolution for decades, who insisted that everything in Russia was wrong and that the power was poor, the system was backward, etc. etc. .P.
            Who and how controlled and directed this progressive public is a separate issue.
            But in any case, the Februaryists, though criminals, but their own, they felt sorry for Russia. The Bolsheviks are ALIEN, Russia and the Russian people for them were only fuel for the globalist project of the world revolution, and they burned this fuel mercilessly, as if it would never end.
            1. venaya
              venaya 2 February 2018 10: 20
              +3
              Quote: Dzmicer
              ..Feralists, although criminals, but their own, they felt sorry for Russia. The Bolsheviks are ALIEN, Russia and the Russian people for them were only fuel for the globalist project of the world revolution ..

              The Febralists? This is what "his" Prince Lvov - a member of the Masonic lodge "The Great East of France"? He worked for his masters, the bankers of France, those who muddied the PMV, setting RI on the GI and then vice versa. Maybe the head of the "Great East of Russia" A. Kerensky was "his"? So his organization (VVR) was completely subordinate to the head of the French section, of which Prince Lvov was a member. And who in the Provisional Government was there taking care of Russia? The money from Y. Schiff from New York went to A. Kerensky in the October Revolution, the “Red Guard” was also armed for this A. Kerensky from the Petrograd arsenal, and not from behind the hill. Please find who there in the VP specifically was "mine" and who was not mine. I didn’t find any of mine there, all were members of Masonic lodges, that is, traitors whom it was necessary to destroy in the first place. As for the “Bolsheviks,” it’s generally a song: Leading the World Revolution L. Trotsky never belonged to the Leninist fraction of the Bolsheviks, moreover, he had his own fraction, which fought fiercely against the Leninists. Is he the Bolshevik? The Central Committee of the Leninist faction condemned the chairman of the "Bolshevik Party", Y. Sverdlov, and the whole composition voted against the impending coup on October 25. Y. Sverdlov had to completely replace the Lenin Central Committee with his own (Sverdlovsk), which went on the occasion of A. Kerensky in the direction of the coup scheduled for October 25th. Are these also Bolsheviks, together with L. Trotsky? People have been so brainwashed that they have not understood anything on autopilot for a long time. Is Trotskyites-Sverdlovtsy worth associating with members of the faction, because they are true communist internationalists, unlike Stalin, who was forced to become a pure statesman, by the way with a not entirely Marxist ideology. I think that if we are able to separate Trotskyites-internationalists from Stalinists-statesmen, then it is advisable to completely abandon the blurred term "Bolsheviks" - because this word often means people with absolutely opposite views, which fundamentally confuses everyone, therefore has no meaning. You would try to replace the term "Bolsheviks" yourself with a clearer and more understandable one, then everything will fall into place and there will be no confusion in the concepts and in the semantic content of the terms used.
              1. Dzmicer
                Dzmicer 2 February 2018 10: 30
                +5
                I was referring to the February generals (political babies), who then, realizing what they had done, became the head of the volunteer army. They can still forgive the betrayal of the Tsar, "for they did not know what they were doing."
                Spies, agents of influence, Masons - a completely different song.
          2. Dzmicer
            Dzmicer 2 February 2018 09: 57
            +7
            Who and how controlled and directed this progressive public is a separate issue.

            For example:
            During WWII, a whole herd of those who are now called PR managers, led by Sir Samuel Hoare, grazed in Russia. Officially - to help combat German propaganda. What they did informally uncomplicatedly guess - they oversaw the company for the dissemination of slander in relation to the Sovereign Emperor and his family.
            Immediately after the February coup, Sir Hoar left Russia due to "health problems."
            "The Moor has done his work; the Moor may leave." laughing

            Title: "The Complete History of the Russian Revolution - Another British Profit"
          3. ALEA IACTA EST
            ALEA IACTA EST 2 February 2018 12: 44
            +2
            Not the "Arab spring" and ISIS gave birth to feral fanatics, but the feral fanatics produced the "Arab spring" and created ISIS. These people rotted much earlier.
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 2 February 2018 09: 06
      +4
      never heard of liars people ..
      1. Dzmicer
        Dzmicer 2 February 2018 09: 34
        +7
        never heard of liars people ..

        If there weren’t a Pale of Settlement, they would have heard. laughing
        If mothers had taught Russians as Poles since childhood that Jews should not be trusted, then the history of Russia in the twentieth century could have taken a slightly different path.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 2 February 2018 10: 09
          +8
          and you are a Jew? You have to ... well, you're lying, the Jews are to blame ..
          1. Dzmicer
            Dzmicer 2 February 2018 10: 16
            +5
            Get out - also a position laughing
            However, for her a lot of intelligence is not needed.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 2 February 2018 12: 08
              +6
              it is noticeable that the mind is not needed .. especially when you write about the use of chemical weapons ... there really is no mind. from the word at all ...
    3. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 09: 36
      +6
      That is true. On my own behalf, I’ll add that the author, for thinking about the Russian people in those years, would also be branded a “Great Russian chauvinist-defender of the oppressors”.
  8. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 08: 23
    +8
    Fantastic in its content delirium, sustained in the spirit of Goebbels propaganda.
    The new officers, recruited mainly from the ranks of the intelligentsia, were entirely liberal, and the peasants who had just donned their overcoats did not want to protect the tsarist government

    The officers were ready to defend both the King and the government. They were confronted with the fact that Nicholas II seemed to have abdicated, and his brother Michael did not accept the throne and unsubscribed to a certain Provisional Government.
    After the outbreak of World War II in 1914, they honestly declared that the war was of an imperialist, predatory nature, that for revolutionaries the right position is defeatism.

    Miracle, gentlemen! The author honestly admitted for some time that the Bolsheviks were ordinary traitors, defeatists, who had betrayed their homeland at the time when Russia was subjected to German aggression.
    They formed their "armies", created governments, and most often relied on the support of the western and eastern powers (Turkey, Japan). The Cossacks acted in the same spirit, seeking the complete autonomy of their troops. Russia literally before our eyes fell apart into "independent" Bantustans and republics.

    In fact, the author mischievously forgets to mention that the “independents” first of all demanded autonomy, which is very different from independence. And he also forgets that all these "independent" republics later received their full design in the form of "union republics" of the USSR. And the slogan of the whites was "For a single indivisible Russia." It was the whites who were opposed to all kinds of separatist movements. Unlike the Bolsheviks, who recognized the independence of all the separatists in a row.
    dreamed of dragging Russia into the Western world. AND

    Funny joke. It was impossible to drag Russia to where it already was
    .
    Let me remind you that at the beginning of the 1917th century, Russians were the third largest nation in the world, second only to the people of China and India. And if not for the world war, and the turmoil of 1920-500. and subsequent disasters, we could maintain this position and currently have about XNUMX million people.

    But this is already a frank hutspa. The Russian people suffered terrible losses in the 20th century precisely because of the power of the Bolsheviks. The famine caused by the policy of "war communism." The executions of the unwanted during the Civil War. The famine caused by "collectivization." Mortality in camps and among “special settlers”. Mediocre foreign policy and army leadership, which led to a catastrophic start of the Second World War. Famine of 1946. And the Bolsheviks are the faultless rogues who are to blame for this. And only they.
    The remains of the Russian people were awaited by slavish fate, assimilation, the role of ethnographic material for the "refreshment of the blood" of other nations, and complete extinction.

    In fact, the author has just described the national policy of the Bolsheviks. With their attempts to build a “new historical community”, a ban on the creation of a communist party in the RSFSR, the restoration of the death penalty due to the “Russian cause” of the Leningrad Regional Committee of the CPSU and the demolition of monuments to Russian heroes.
    They were able to recreate Russia as a red empire,

    The Bolsheviks did not recreate Russia, but began to create their own country, which had the same relation to Russia as Zimbabwe to Rhodesia.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 2 February 2018 18: 14
      +8
      Lieutenant Teterin
      In the 20 century, the Russian people suffered terrible losses precisely because of the power of the Bolsheviks. The famine caused by the policy of "war communism." The executions of the unwanted during the Civil War. The famine caused by "collectivization." Mortality in camps and among “special settlers”. Mediocre foreign policy and army leadership, which led to a catastrophic start of the Second World War. Famine 1946 of the year. And the Bolsheviks are the faultless rogues who are to blame for this. And only they.
      Quieter when cornering, do not slip, lieutenant.
      The verdict of the peasants of the village of Telkovo in the Khakhal volost of the Semenovsky district of the Nizhny Novgorod province ..... We are saddled with various direct and indirect taxes; we have neither pasture nor meadow land. Arable land will give birth poorly, and we are unable to fertilize it, because we cannot keep enough cattle, and artificial fertilizer is bought with money that we don’t have. We have become impoverished, we are starving ourselves in cramped squalid shacks, but meanwhile different Kuropatkins, Alekseevs, Stesseli, Trepovs, Pobedonostsevs, etc. are received from our hard-earned money, and there are also numbers of them, hundreds of thousands and more salaries. This is a mess. There is no way to get out of this situation under the old government. For example, we wrote a petition addressed to Goremykin about cutting off pasture and meadow land from the treasury, which we rent from the treasury on very unfavorable conditions for us, but the zemsky chief demanded this petition from us and ordered his clerk to rewrite it. What he wrote here, what he corrected, we know absolutely nothing. And so the appeal edited by the zemstvo authorities was sent to Goremykin, and the original was left to us “for memory”. Yes, however, when we wrote this petition, we didn’t particularly believe that the government would cut us the ground if our forgiveness had come to our destination. And now, when through the newspapers we learned all the lies and thefts of the bosses, we finally do not believe him. We hate this authorities because it started an unnecessary war, shed a lot | blood, destroyed the fleet, plundered the people's money and all around fell into debt, which we, the poor, will have to pay. In the inner life, the interests of the kulaks and the rich were defended, and the poor and working classes were crowded out; people seeking truth and justice, imprisoned, exiled to Siberia, hung up, etc..... It should be 51 signature. "Nizhny Novgorod Zemstvo newspaper" 1905. 22 December.
  9. Curious
    Curious 2 February 2018 08: 43
    12
    Another blow to the fan in order to support the process, which in some unicultural circles is classified as srach .. It's time to start a separate section for such "works".
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 2 February 2018 09: 56
      +7
      Quote: Curious
      Another blow to the fan in order to support the process,

      Site rating! Business and nothing personal.
      Quote: Curious
      Another blow to the fan in order to support the process,

      I agree, in particular, it touches that the “historian” Samsonov under the heading History laughing .
      1. Dzmicer
        Dzmicer 2 February 2018 10: 07
        +7
        For Mr. Samsonov, we need a separate heading: “Political Instructor Says and Shows” laughing
    3. Diminisher
      Diminisher 2 February 2018 10: 15
      +8
      The problem is that for some people there is no time span of 1917-1991, as for others, the history of Russia begins in 1917.
      Instead of understanding and discussing the cause and effect of the passage of time (for example, why the Bolsheviks won, and not the white ones), opponents throw flowers at each other.
      Instead of examining the history of Russia as integral and indivisible, they begin to embellish part of one story and pour mud on another (for example, in the Republic of Ingushetia there were jelly banks, and the Bolsheviks ruined everything. It works and vice versa, but for some reason you believe the Communists, because stat data is unlikely to lie).

      In conclusion: Maybe in such articles we’ll begin to discuss the reasons for the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR (and how to avoid these problems again), and not to compose alternative stories (an appeal to the monarchists and all kinds of opponents of the left), rather than throw flowers at each other?
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 2 February 2018 13: 41
        +5
        Quote: Diminisher
        In conclusion: Maybe in such articles we’ll begin to discuss the reasons for the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR (and how to avoid these problems again), and not to compose alternative stories (an appeal to the monarchists and all kinds of opponents of the left), rather than throw flowers at each other?

        I will subscribe to every word!
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 2 February 2018 17: 46
          +8
          And what reasons for the collapse of RI are still needed?
          1905 November 7. - The verdict of the peasants with. Kazakov, Murom County, Vladimir Province
          We, the undersigned, Murom district, Kazakov volost, peasants s. Kazakov, consisting of 366 revision souls, 160 peasant households, of this date, by order of our village headman (Ivan Evteev gathered at a village gathering and at that gathering had a judgment about their burdensome overwhelming needs, since our population is getting poorer year after year) and the peasant economy is falling. ”After discussing what, we, society, found that such poverty was not rooted in us from drunkenness or laziness of a man, but from the fact that we were burdened: 1, redemption payments, 2, indirect taxes , somehow: for tea, sugar, keros n, etc., 3, zemsky arbitrariness not useful for us, 4, tormented by our lack of education in science and 5, lack of land necessary for peasants, and in view of this, we, society, agree with each other decided: to solicit to whom it is necessary to rid us of such absolute poverty, namely: 1-e, add the redemption payments from us, 2-e, add up all indirect taxes and replace them with direct progressive income taxes, 3-e, destroy the estate, equalize before the law all, without exception, 4-th, abolish the post Sgiach chiefs, 5-ie, to establish a general compulsory public education at state expense, 6-ie, to transfer the ownership of land privately owned peasants, state, crown, monastery and church. By satisfying all that is requested, we are the only people in the whole population who can get rid of the overwhelming poverty that has taken hold of us.
          1905 November 8. - Sentence of peasants of the Khotebtsovsky volost of the Ruzsky district of Moscow province in the All-Russian Peasant Union of 1905 of the year of November 8 of the day. We, the undersigned, Moscow Province, Ruzskago U., peasants of all villages of the Khotebtsovskoy volost, from the total number 786 of all householders of the volost, have gathered this number in the Khotebtsovskoy volost government to discuss issues related to the needs and benefits of the peasants, and, as appropriate, to discuss comprehensive issues , with the general consent of us, decided:1) So that all the authorities, from the village headman to the ranks of the State Council, are elected by the people themselves.2) So that the whole land - state, unit, monastery, church and private ownership - belong to the people, as well as the landowner. 3) In order for the authorities elected by the people to be audited by the State Duma both on the boards and on government buildings of every kind and shipbuilding plants, etc., etc.4) Be sure to introduce progressive taxes (income) and abolish direct and indirect taxes.5) Volost and zemstvo expenses should be replenished from the progressive tax.6) Abolish the administration of the provincial zemstvo and transfer affairs to the administration of the people. 7) So that the clergy have a salary from the treasury and that all requisitions of the clergy are stopped, since people will be corrupted by such requisitions and religion will fall.8) To establish universal free education, such as in lower, secondary and higher educational institutions, at public expense.9) In order to streamline military service, namely, to destroy the humiliating attitude for the lower ranks towards superiors outside the service and to improve the material content of the lower military ranks.10 ) In order for public charity to be established at public expense for all persons who have lost their ability to work.11 ) So that the elections to the State Duma would be by all means universal, equal, direct, with secret ballot, without distinction of nationalities, religion and gender.12 ) That there was a complete amnesty for victims of political convictions and the death penalty was abolished.13 ) So that martial law and enhanced protection of 31 and generally administrative arbitrariness are abolished everywhere.14 ) That the institute of zemstvo chiefs, police officers, police officers, tax inspectors, county members of the district court should be canceled.15 ) That we fully join the All-Russian Peasant Union and wish that all the volosts of the Ruzskago County together with us join the indicated union. RGIA. F. 1278. On. 1. 1906. D. 234. L. 35. Copy. Protocols of the Delegate meeting of the All-Russian Peasant Union. M., 1906. C. 137 — 138.
  10. Bouncer
    Bouncer 2 February 2018 10: 05
    20
    White fought for Russia without ...
    By the way, and some of the "red" - for "advice without communists."
    There were such slogans
    And all parties used foreign aid - each for their own purposes
    The law of the chicken coop))
  11. Just a man
    Just a man 2 February 2018 10: 28
    11
    It’s amazing how brainwashed for 30 years. Some lovers of the crunch of French rolls want to imagine that the White Guard movement is the essence of saving Russia and benefiting the people. It is strange only why until the age of 17 they did not think about it. The presence in the headquarters of all the White Guard armies of representatives (advisers) of Western countries in the western and southern directions, and the Japanese and Americans in the Far East, is also apparently explained by the passionate desire to "make happy" the peoples of Russia. And the army units of 14 countries of the world were present on the territory of Russia only in order to bring happiness, freedom and blessing to our ancestors — holy cherubs. And the fact that they killed our people is the same only in the name of the happiness of those killed. People, are you overeating bleached.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 2 February 2018 17: 54
      +6
      It is strange only why until the 17 year they did not think about it.
      Thought they were busy with others. And, in fact, in a good way they asked:
      Sentence of peasants of the Pryamukhinsky volost of Novotorzhsky district of the Tver province ........ Listened to the manifesto of November 3 p. Mr .. and realized that the government wants to conclude a trade deal with the people: we initially asked, and later we began to demand from the government: 1) universal, compulsory and free education; 2) civil and political freedom; 3) the inviolability of the person and housing and freedom of movement; 4) freedom of conscience, speech, press, assembly, unions and strikes; 5) convocation of a constituent council on the basis of universal, equal, direct and secret suffrage; b) complete amnesty for all victims of the struggle for freedom; 7) forever exempting from military service and returning to the homeland of all participants in the Russo-Japanese war mobilized substitutes (notes: if heroes are needed in the Far East, then send the gendarmerie corps and the police, led by Trepov and Sleptsov there); 8) nationalization of the land, the abolition of direct and indirect taxes, the introduction of a progressive income tax; 9) the introduction of an 6-hour work day in all industrial establishments; 10 ) the abolition of the institute of zemstvo chiefs, as well as volost courts, and the replacement of the latter by judicial-world institutions; 11 ) estate equations; 12 ) introduction of a small zemstvo unit. Instead of all this, the government, with a whole series of manifestos, did not give anything in essence, but only promised to give, and the last of them (November 3 of this year) gives a bare bone as if it were hungry
      dog:
      half cancels (and subsequently completely lays down) redemption payments, and sends it to a peasant bank abroad and at the same time increases indirect taxes on necessary items. But although we are really hungry, we don’t want to get involved in this bone, well understanding all the intentions of our beneficent government. In our demands, we remain adamant and remember that it’s not the people for the government, but the government for the people, c) Our Pryamukha medical station has been closed for several weeks, since the zemstvo does not send a doctor, and therefore we decided to invite doctor A to the post. I. Bakunin, and with his refusal, a female doctor Rubinovich. The peasants Zakhar Dmitriyev, Dmitry Spiridonov and Dmitry Petrov authorized to discuss this with the zemstvo administration; d) To choose one representative from each village who will allocate a commission of b people from among their own communities to deliver the peasant union program. Followed by 149 signatures.
      https://studopedia.ru/19_183494_g-noyabrya---prig
      ovor-krestyan-pryamuhinskoy-volosti-novotorzhskog
      o-uezda-tverskoy-gubernii.html
  12. Opera
    Opera 2 February 2018 10: 53
    10
    I especially liked about semi-feudal Russia, the imperialist predatory war (whom Russia robbed ?!) of Russia for the interests of the Western powers against other Western powers, the correct position of the Bolsheviks - defeatism, merciless Russian peasant rebellion and peasant war against everyone (anarchist peasants apparently yes ?!) and especially about the Russians (?!?!?!)))))))))))) the communists who led to the victory of the Bolsheviks !!!!!))))))) And even more like the Bolsheviks who recreated the empire only red and returned to the country the former (?!?!?!))))))))) position in the world !!!!!! Excuse me, what are these former ?! The positions of the semi-feudal Russian Empire ?! )))))))) This is clearly according to Freud! In fact, the author knows the truth! He doesn't even lie! He just fantasizes and begins to deeply believe in his fantasies himself! This condition is very dangerous, as for the health of the fantasists themselves, which actually is their business! But at a special stage, it is mortally dangerous to those around it, which actually proves October 1917! Unless, of course, such visionaries can be isolated in time and somehow purely Christian, trying to help them, can cure them ...
    PS Tell me, can you write anything here at all ?! Any articles are direct and to anyone ?! However...
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 2 February 2018 18: 54
      +6
      But at a special stage, it is mortally dangerous for those around, which actually proves October 1917 of the year! Unless, of course, such visionaries can be isolated in time and somehow purely Christian, trying to help them, can cure them ...
      Some were isolated and cured, but then, after 1917. And before that, everything was perfect!
      Sentence of peasants Pogostovsky and 4 rural communities of the Krasninsky district of Smolensk province... gathered on 21 Nov. 1905, and having discussed their difficult disenfranchised position, they saw that nobody lives so badly in Russia as our brother-peasant; we have little land and it is uncomfortable, half under moss and a river or a swamp, the other half will give birth poorly, but there is nothing to fertilize; there are few meadows and there is nowhere to graze cattle, there isn’t enough bread for you, which you collect from the field and they take it to the lodge, and if you don’t get it, they sell the last cattle. The clergy also oppresses us, they take 10-15 rubles. per crown, by 3 p. for a funeral, they go to a carriage and roll out the last bread, take a rake, ropes and everything that comes to hand; and you have to go into captivity - to bondage to the rich, borrow everything for high interest or to work off, you have to sell your work for nothing, working 16 hours a day in a day-dress for two-man-day a day on your grub. We have been working for a whole bloody century, we feed all the rich, we give the last money to the treasury, and there is nothing to eat in the mud, rags; there is no one to intercede for us, because the authorities oppress us, and there is no one to complain; the same authorities and laws were especially strict for us, according to which, until recently, peasants had been flogged with rods and are now being put in jail without any fault and at the request of the Zemstvo commander or volost foreman; according to the same laws, a peasant cannot be either a zemstvo, a police officer, or a governor, or any boss at all. Why is the peasant worse than others, is it because he carries all the hard work in the state on his shoulders? Everywhere they bypass us, everywhere they put us behind, and only in war, under enemy bullets do they give us the first place. Schools for the rich are built with our money, 144 pays thousands of salaries to officials for a year, but they don’t give us good schools, they purposely keep us in ignorance, we don’t even let truthful books into the village, and after all this we are called ignorant, dirty and contemptuous of us turn away. How can we become rational and clean if need and hunger force us to work for the rich all the time, to clean and groom them! ... We affix this sentence with signatures and, due to our ignorance, we all householders personally ask rural elders to strengthen our sentence by attaching a seal. On genuine follow 25 signatures and seals of Pogostovsky, Levkovsky, Okrutovsky, Khlamovsky and Volkovsky village elders. Gas. The Dnieper Herald 1905. 3 December.
  13. captain
    captain 2 February 2018 10: 58
    +7
    “Thus, the Russian Communists turned out to be the only force that stood for social justice, the elimination of social parasites that oppress the masses, and had a project and development program acceptable to the majority of the population. Therefore, the Bolsheviks won. They were able to recreate Russia as red an empire that not only regained its former position in the world, but also included half the planet in its sphere of influence. "
    Dear author, where did the lands and people divide? Before 1917, our population was about 180. million in the Russian Empire, and after 75 years of communist rule, it became 146 million. And then thanks to the bourgeois, Crimea (given by your idols to the nationalists) was returned. The territory of the Russian Empire was 21799058 sq. Km, and the territory of the Russian Federation in 2014-17 098 246 km². Thanks to the efforts of the bourgeoisie, Crimea has grown- 17 125 191 km². Where did you share the land and the people you guard over Russia? You have presented our land to nationalists of all stripes. Russophobes and you are assuming that the accomplices of the Zionists.
    1. chenia
      chenia 2 February 2018 14: 56
      10
      Quote: captain
      Until 1917, our population was about 180 million in the Russian Empire, and after 75 years of communist rule, it became 146 million.


      What is it? When you learn to count. RI is the USSR and in 1991 it was 293 млн..Growth (after the war) by 23-25 million for a decade (for 60-70 years in general 32 N.)
      And suddenly, in 27 years in the post-Soviet Union, almost the same figure295 млн.
      And why the shortfall in 60-65 million surprised you

      Slavic nations until the very existence of the USSR had an increase of -7-8 million / 10 years.
      Yes, it was 5-6 times lower than the Central Asian republics.

      But the gain would bel (increase in excess of fertility over mortality (we do not take into account emigration and immigration, because then it is insignificant))

      And now this is liberalism with capitalism, which was to come A hundred years ago..

      And what would be below.

      The successes of liberalism with capitalism are obvious - especially in Ukraine.
      1. captain
        captain 2 February 2018 16: 16
        +3
        chenia, turn off the fool, otherwise people will not understand. Where is the earth and people? Where?
        1. chenia
          chenia 2 February 2018 18: 24
          +7
          [quote = captain] Where is the earth and the people? Where?
          Are you asking me?

          You who on the last branch, with a surprise mumbled about the absence of losses in the Russian Federation, ask such a question?

          That you must turn on the brain.
          The state of the post-Soviet countries is not the business of the Communists, but of the ACCEPTED.
          You yourself climbed into the Communist Party for the sake of a career (you admitted after all).
          Being principled is always not very profitable, but if you are "FOR", then spitting on principles for the sake of a career doesn’t cost anything, that’s why many went wrong. And their name is legion.

          There were many MEMBERS in the CPSU (especially in the leadership, but not very Communists.).

          I affirm that if there had not been a revolution, the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia would have happened anyway. Is the Constituent Assembly a way out? Yes there except chatter are incapable of anything.
          There was then no unifying IDEA, either nationally or socially.

          The Communists ultimately collected and retained the land of RI. And what happened after them, they are not responsible.

          YOU ask from Yeltsin and K (liberoids and democrats).

          And losses in times of power red, I cited dozens of times.
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 2 February 2018 18: 04
      +5
      Quote: captain
      Russophobes and you are assuming that the accomplices of the Zionists.
      And who is this, also Zionists?
      The decision of the meeting of elected from the villages of the Yamburg district of St. Petersburg province1) Recognizing that the bureaucratic system that dishonored and ruined our land, there is a culprit of national disasters and national darkness, the assembly requires that power be completely transferred to the hands of the elected from the people. 2) The assembly, recognizing all citizens of Russia as equal, requires universal, equal, direct and secret suffrage both in the legislative assembly and in zemstvo and city institutions. 3) To establish the basic law of the Russian Empire, the assembly recognizes the need for the immediate convening of a constituent assembly on the basis of universal, direct, equal and secret suffrage. 4) The meeting, finding the area of ​​peasant land ownership is not sufficient, requires the transfer of specific, cabinet, monastery, church and of the property land in the hands of peasant societies on the basis of a law drawn up by people elected.5) The meeting deems it necessary to declare water free for everyone to fishing.6) The meeting, recognizing the existing tax system as incorrect and unfair, decided: to stop paying the redemption payments and demand the introduction of a progressive income tax.7) The meeting considers it necessary to destroy the existing police and put public order maintenance on rural societies .8) A complete amnesty for all victims of political and religious convictions.9) The abolition of the death penalty.10) The abolition of martial law and enhanced protection.11) The introduction of universal compulsory public education at the expense of the state in all educational institutions, both in lower and in Higher.12) Closing of state wine shops34. Gas. "New Life" 1905. 18 November (1 December).
  14. Ural resident
    Ural resident 2 February 2018 11: 38
    +2
    Thank you for the article. Very detailed. In general, that was all, unfortunately a civil war was inevitable.
    However, I do not agree that the whites fought for Western interests. All the same, it was a patriotic and not indifferent to Russia part of society. We can talk about mistakes and errors, but they thought stately, in contrast to the same peasants whose task was simply to live well and richly. And the fact that the Bolsheviks got involved in an already decaying society is known. And their ideas were not bad, but they should not be praised - they shed enough blood, and even after the victory. Was it necessary in those harsh conditions to assert his power? - Probably for coming to power, but for the future - unforgivable. Although in chaos, power is taken by one who is more powerful and cruel, and the paradox is that in the end this chaos ceases.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 3 February 2018 02: 58
      +6
      Quote: Resident of the Urals
      However, I do not agree that the whites fought for Western interests. All the same, it was a patriotic and not indifferent to Russia part of society.

      Of course, the indifferent part, the whites fought to return private property taken away by the Soviet government, to return their income, their privileges, among which the main privilege was the right to parasitize the working people.
  15. Opera
    Opera 2 February 2018 12: 01
    +7
    Quote: Diminisher
    In conclusion: Maybe in such articles we’ll begin to discuss the reasons for the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR (and how to avoid these problems again), and not to compose alternative stories (an appeal to the monarchists and all kinds of opponents of the left), rather than throw flowers at each other?

    I completely agree with you. Only in this case you will turn to the left (with all your disagreement with this ideology, I have no doubt that there are enough Russian patriots among them), otherwise there is no alternative to history in their execution! This is not history at all, but just a seventy-year-old paradise of justice! And more about the mismatch of positions. The difficulty is from what positions all this is considered. There is a Soviet position. There is a Russian. Unfortunately, there is an abyss between them. And in World War I our ancestors went on the attack for Faith, Tsar and Fatherland! And in the Great Patriotic War they rose for their Motherland! If sometimes they shouted for Stalin, then this is also in the mentality of our people. King he is the king! I never believe that the ideals of the world revolution, communism and internationalism inspired our fighters! And about internationalism, even if some thought that the German proletariat would certainly help us, this nonsense quickly came out with bloody sweat! War is a serious matter. The best German proletariat is the dead proletariat when it is in the shape of a Wehrmacht! And the bigger and faster the better! And further. Being a monarchist, I absolutely do not respect the position of some representatives of the white emigration who fought on the side of the Wehrmacht! As well as the defeatism of the Bolsheviks who wanted to defeat Russia! Contempt causes! Real Russian people should be equally proud of the heroine of the French resistance, Princess Vera Obolenskaya and the Komsomol member Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya!
  16. Dimmih
    Dimmih 2 February 2018 13: 43
    +7
    Samsonov’s author is just gushing about articles lately. For some reason, they are only placed in the History section, although it would be more correct in the Opinion section. Or Emissions of Inflamed Consciousness. Quote: "Frightened by this, the masters of the West created the Third Reich project, gave Hitler almost all of Europe and threw the German" blond beast "into the Soviet Union. A new world war began." It sounds, of course, beautiful and familiar, but if you read it, it’s stupid propaganda, broken stamps. The Second World War, of which the Great Patriotic War is a part, began on September 1, 1939. attack on Poland, and then German tanks captured Western Europe. So where do the masters of the west live, in the tunnels under Zurich? The author would have fresh air, otherwise the poor fellow will come out with foam.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 2 February 2018 15: 41
      +4
      Quote: Dimmih
      Samsonov’s author is just gushing about articles lately. For some reason, they are only placed in the History section, although it would be more correct in the Opinion section. Or Emissions of Inflamed Consciousness. Quote: "Frightened by this, the masters of the West created the Third Reich project, gave Hitler almost all of Europe and threw the German" blond beast "into the Soviet Union. A new world war began." It sounds, of course, beautiful and familiar, but if you read it, it’s stupid propaganda, broken stamps. The Second World War, of which the Great Patriotic War is a part, began on September 1, 1939. attack on Poland, and then German tanks captured Western Europe. So where do the masters of the west live, in the tunnels under Zurich? The author would have fresh air, otherwise the poor fellow will come out with foam.

      Your words yes in the ears of the site administration.
      1. Dimmih
        Dimmih 3 February 2018 17: 07
        0
        The administration of the site sits in the heights, our words are lost on the way to them. So they announced a warning to me on a far-fetched occasion, asked twice the moderator-executor, and the site administration — there is no answer. The trouble is sadness, joy to Samson alone.
  17. c3r
    c3r 2 February 2018 14: 22
    +6
    The article is like a mantra, many repetitions!
  18. komrad buh
    komrad buh 2 February 2018 15: 24
    +3
    God forbid us from another civil war!
  19. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 2 February 2018 15: 44
    +2
    Varyag_0711,
    It's already a pity to look at you. Stop this self-torture session, please. You are in vain trying to hide a simple fact behind big words and accusations — you have nothing to object to, and you are simply afraid to admit it. In the same way, you are afraid to admit that in relation to Russia and its history you take the same position as Messrs. Ulyanov (Lenin), Bronstein (Trotsky), Pokrovsky and others like them. Hence your loud statements about the desire to crack down on those who disagree with you and the general accusation of everyone working for the CIA, the USA and anyone else. After all, as you know, the loudest "Hold the thief!" the sought-after thief screams ...
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 2 February 2018 18: 46
      +5
      Lieutenant Teterin
      You occupy the same position as Messrs. Ulyanov (Lenin), Bronstein (Trotsky)
      And what position did you take those who brought before such a life people?
      Sentence of peasants of the Kumolov Society of Petergof County, Petersburg ProvinceиOur poverty, reaching poverty, the arbitrariness of those in power, low land, excessive taxes, lawlessness, ignorance, etc., have endlessly led us, Russian plowmen, to despair. Living the way we live in the present becomes impossible: a hungry family with its cries tears our hearts; hard work, labor reaching exhaustion, and also scarce food, undermines our health, kills us everything human, everything vital and turns us into working animals, doomed only to eat, multiply and work to the point of exhaustion. They accuse us of ignorance, calling them bears, they also accuse us of drunkenness, but those who do not know us and who do not know our working, everyday life also say and blame it. Let these judges and prosecutors look closely at it, let them listen to the voice of the impersonal Russian people, then it would be clear to all these accusers that, under such serfdom conditions of our life, it is impossible for us peasants to think about another life, a spiritual life: it can’t not only develop among us, but even those embryos that were planted in our souls as a child in school are completely corroded by constant worries about an essential piece of bread. We have a popular library nearby, but we don’t take books, we don’t read them, but we don’t take them because we don’t see the benefits of reading them; no, but we don’t have time, we don’t have the time to deal with them: we have to work day and night, without unbending our backs, to somehow feed our family and pay all kinds of taxes that the Russian plowman is not offended. We often ask ourselves questions: who cares about us, peasants, who gives us a helping hand? The answer is simple - no one! Although there is a small attempt on the part of the zemstvo to facilitate our difficult peasant life, it is this zemstvo itself, in one case, itself powerless, and in the other, it turns all good into evil, arbitrariness, due to the fact that the implementation of this good is entrusted to or by the local administration , or to our fists who look at it as a means of personal gain, why the county’s life moves forward at a snail's pace, while huge funds are spent. There are 12 signatures, of which 6 are female and the postscript: To this resolution unanimously connected and peasants. Arbolovsk rural society. The representative of the Arbolovsk society Nikolay Ivanov.
  20. Dashing
    Dashing 2 February 2018 19: 21
    +4
    "White come rob, red come rob. Where can the poor peasant go?" In this phrase, the whole essence of the civil war.
  21. Square
    Square 2 February 2018 19: 34
    +2
    White fought for the interests of the West
    And the red ones are for the interests of the East laughing
  22. 89067359490
    89067359490 2 February 2018 23: 06
    0
    Another article by the author about the "bad" white and "good" Bolsheviks.
    Thus, the only force that stood for social justice, the elimination of social parasites that oppress the masses, and having a project and development program acceptable to the majority of the population, were Russian Communists.

    By the way, the Constitution of the RSFSR of 1925, article 69.
  23. Dmitry Tantsyura
    Dmitry Tantsyura 7 February 2018 00: 19
    0
    in those days, I did not delve into, times are always the same, people are only real or Zrada. figures and suits have beguiled, well, the forms of government from the forms of management, both behind a fence and in a helmet.
  24. digitalcn75
    digitalcn75 11 February 2018 23: 09
    0
    Bullshit some kind