Military Review

Bloody Battle of the Ice Campaign

141
15 — March 17 The 1918 of the Year The volunteer army defeated the Red forces at Vyselki stations and Korenovskaya station during a bloody battle.


prehistory

In January — February, 1918, the counter-revolutionary forces in the Don Region, Kaledinians and Alekseevts (Kornilovs), suffered a crushing defeat. The Cossacks, capable of setting up an entire army, well-armed and prepared, were for the most part indifferent to the white (counter-revolutionary) movement and did not want to fight. Many sympathized with the Soviet authorities. Novocherkassk fell. Kaledin committed suicide. The remaining White Cossacks fled.

The leaders of the Volunteer Army (YES), Alekseev and Kornilov, decided that it was necessary to leave the Don in order to preserve the backbone of the army. Rostov besieged from all sides. 1 (14) February The volunteer army was deprived of the possibility of withdrawing to the Kuban by rail: volunteers were forced to leave the station and the village of Bataysk. They were occupied by detachments of the commander of the Southeast revolutionary army Avtonomov, they were supported by local railway workers. However, Kornilov managed to keep the left bank of the Don, and Avtonomov’s attempts to break through to Rostov were also repulsed. At the same time, Sivers detachments were approaching Rostov from the other side - from Matveyev Kurgan and Taganrog.

Further stay in Rostov led to the death of DA. We decided to go to the Kuban or Salsk steppe. In Ekaterinodar Kuban Rada was hostile to the Bolsheviks, it had its own “army” under the command of the former pilot, Pokrovsky. Volunteers hoped to get the support of the Kuban Cossacks and take advantage of the anti-Soviet sentiments of the Caucasian peoples. The area of ​​the Kuban Cossack troops could become a base for the deployment of the army and further hostilities. And in the Salsk steppes, at the winter houses, one could sit out.

It is worth noting that the campaign on the Kuban was dangerous. The Caucasus was in total chaos. Turkish troops attacked the Transcaucasus, supported by Azerbaijani nationalists. Armenians retreated, bleeding profusely. The Georgians decided to go under Germany, to avoid the Turkish occupation. The North Caucasus, previously pacified by the royal power, army and Cossack troops, in the conditions of the Russian Troubles simply exploded. Dagestan began to look towards Turkey, the guerrilla war began, gangs bred. In Chechnya, clans quarreled among themselves, but all the gangs solidly slaughtered the Russians, attacked Cossack villages, plundered Grozny (then a completely Russian city) and oil fields. The Ingush gangs acted in a similar way - they were at enmity with the Cossacks, the Ossetians, the Bolsheviks. They attacked Vladikavkaz and united with the Chechens against the Cossacks. The Ossetians united with the Cossacks against the Ingush and the Bolsheviks. Kabardians tried to maintain neutrality, the Circassians sat in their mountain villages. The small Terek Cossack army fell, unable to withstand the attacks of the Chechen-Ingush gangs and the red detachments. Kuban army still held, but the disaster was inevitable. The Caucasus has become a real "meat grinder".

Bloody Battle of the Ice Campaign

The Combined-Officer Regiment of Dobrommia performs in the Ice campaign. February 1918

Trekking

There remained a narrow corridor through which volunteers could retreat. 9 (22) February 1918, the Volunteer Army crossed over to the left bank of the Don. General Kornilov walked in the convoy, an elderly General Alekseev rode on a trolley, the whole army treasury was in the trunk. Kornilov appointed Denikin as his assistant to replace him if necessary. However, Denikin was the first to leave - he caught a bad cold and fell down. “Army” in terms of the number of fighters was equal to a regiment - about 2,5 thousand people. Behind the volunteers luggage and numerous refugees.

The first stop was the village of Olginskaya. All the troops scattered after the defeat on the Don gathered here. A Markov detachment approached, cut off from the main forces and making its way past Bataysk. A few Cossack detachments joined. Officers came, previously neutral and fled from Novocherkassk and Rostov, where outbreaks of red terror began. Retrieved recovered and lightly wounded. As a result, about 4 thousand bayonets and sabers have already gathered. YES was reorganized into three infantry regiments, which would later become divisions: the Combined Officer under the command of General Markov, the Kornilov strike of Colonel Nezhentsev, and Guerrilla (from foot Don) of General Bogayevsky. Also, the DA included the Cadet Battalion of General Borovsky, consolidated from the Cadet Battalion and the Rostov Volunteer "Regiment"; The Czechoslovak Engineering Battalion, cavalry divisions and one artillery division. A huge refugee convoy was ordered to leave the army. Now they could disperse across the villages or make their way further. But there were still a lot of civilians, including the chairman of the former State Duma Rodzianko.

Kornilov offered to go to the Salsk steppes, where there were large stocks of food, fodder and of course a lot of horses in the zimovniki (camps of tribal herds). Spring thaw came nearer, spilling rivers, which prevented large forces from moving and allowed White to gain time, wait for an opportune moment for a counterattack. Alekseev opposed. Zimovniki suitable for small teams, as they were scattered at considerable distances from each other. There were few estates for living and fuel. The troops would have to be sprayed into small units and the red troops would be able to easily destroy them YES in parts. The army was sandwiched between the Don and the iron roads. It could have been deprived of the flow of reinforcements, supplies, and organized blockade. In addition, the volunteers were forced to stand idle, turning off from the events in Russia. Therefore, the majority, including Denikin and Romanovsky, offered to go to the Kuban. There were more opportunities. And in case of a complete failure, one could run to the mountains or Georgia.

However, a case intervened here. The news came that a volunteer detachment led by the marching chieftain of the Don General’s Major General P. Kh. Popov (about 1600 fighters with 5 guns and 39 machine guns) left Novocherkassk for the Salsk steppes - so-called. Steppe campaign. Don Cossacks did not want to leave the Don and break away from their homes, they were going to start a guerrilla war and again raise the Don region against the Bolsheviks. General Popov, with his chief of staff, Colonel V. Sidorin, came to the volunteers. Volunteers decided that it would be beneficial to unite with a strong detachment of Cossacks, and changed the original decision. The army received orders to go east.

Meanwhile, the Kuban Council, which on January 28 of 1918 on the lands of the former Kuban Region proclaimed an independent Kuban People’s Republic with its capital in Ekaterinodar, was on the verge of collapse. Against the Kuban center of counter-revolution, the Reds concentrated serious forces. By rail, through Azerbaijan and Georgia, we drove along passes and marched with regiments from the Caucasian front. All junctions were packed with soldiers. The Red commanders of Avtonomov, Sorokin and Sivers received a powerful resource base, forming their own "army". The soldiers were told that counter-revolutionaries were blocking their way home. The Caucasus had serious front stocks, that is, problems with weapons, ammunition and equipment was not.


Kuban Cossack, Red Commander Ivan Lukich Sorokin

The Kuban Rada repeated the fate of all provisional and "democratic" governments that emerged after February (for example, the Don government or the Central Rada). Rada is mired in boltology and debates, working out “the most democratic constitution in the world”. The Cossacks themselves then joined the detachments, then went home. Non-Kazakhs sympathized with the Soviet authorities. On behalf of the Kuban Rada, Pokrovsky formed the Kuban army, which initially numbered about 3000 fighters. He was able to repel the first attacks of the red troops. A young, energetic and brutal commander, a typical promoted in troubled times, he himself claimed the sovereignty. A. I. Denikin gave him the following description: “Pokrovsky was young, of small rank and military experience and unknown to anyone. But he showed vigorous energy, was bold, cruel, overbearing and did not really reckon with "moral prejudices." ... Be that as it may, he did what more solid and bureaucratic people failed to do: he assembled a detachment that was only an actual force, capable of fighting and beating the Bolsheviks ”(A. Denikin. Essays on Russian Troubles) .

1 (14) Mata 1918, the red squad under the command of the Kuban Cossack and military paramedic Ivan Sorokin, occupied Ekaterinodar without a fight. Pokrovsky led his forces in the direction of Maykop. However, the position of the Kuban "army" was hopeless. Without a connection with the Volunteer Army, she was waiting for a rout.

Volunteers moved east. We moved slowly, sending intelligence and creating a wagon train. Generals of Lukomskiy and Ronzhin left for communication with Kuban. On the way we went through a lot of adventures. They were arrested, but managed to wriggle out, wandered, moved from place to place, eventually ended up in Ekaterinodar in Kharkov. Meanwhile, it became clear that it was dangerous to go east. The Reds discovered YES, began to disturb her by small steps. Information collected in the area of ​​wintering people intelligence did not promise anything good. It remained to turn south to the Kuban.



February 25 volunteers moved to Yekaterinodar bypassing the Kuban steppe. Alekseevtsy and Kornilovtsy passed through the villages of Khomutovskaya, Kagalnitskaya, and Yegorlykskaya, entered the limits of the Stavropol province (Lezhanka) and re-entered the Kuban region, crossed the Rostov-Tikhoretskaya railway line, and descended to the village of Ust-Labinsk, where they forced the Kuban.

Volunteers were constantly in contact with the superior numbers of the red units, whose numbers were constantly growing. But success was behind them: “The small number and impossibility of retreat, which would be tantamount to death, have developed their own tactics among the volunteers. It was based on the conviction that with the numerical superiority of the enemy and the scarcity of their own ammunition, it is necessary to attack and only to attack. This, undeniable during a war of maneuver, the truth entered the flesh and blood of the volunteers of the White Army. They always came. In addition, their tactics always included a blow to the enemy’s flanks. The battle began with a frontal attack of one or two infantry units. Infantry attacked a rare chain, from time to time lying down to give the opportunity to work machine guns. ... In one or two places, a "fist" was going to ram the front. Volunteer artillery hit only important targets, spending several rounds to support infantry in exceptional cases. When the infantry rose to dislodge the enemy, then the stop could not be. Whatever the numerical superiority of the enemy, he never withstood the onslaught of the first-comers ”(Trushnovich A. R. Kornilov’s Memoirs). It is worth noting that white prisoners did not take, who surrendered were shot. There were no "noble knights" in the bloody civil massacre.

At first, everything was fine in the Kuban. Rich stanitsy met with bread and salt. But it quickly ended. The resistance of the red units intensified. But the Kornilovists were rushing forward, every fight for them was a matter of life. Victory is life, defeat is death in the cold steppe. 2 (15) in March a heavy fight was going on for Vyselki station. The station changed hands several times. Here, the volunteers learned the first rumors about the capture of Ekaterinodar by the Reds, but there was no exact data yet. In addition, at the next station, Korenovskaya, there was a strong detachment of Sorokin with armored trains and numerous artillery. 4 (17) March began a heavy battle. Junkers and students of Borovsky went to the forehead, and the Officer and Kornilov regiments struck on the flanks. Bypassing the Kornilov threw Partisan regiment and the Czechoslovakia. They spent the last ammunition. Kornilov personally stopped the fivefold chains. As a result, the Reds quivered and the volunteers won.

However, Korenovskaya finally confirmed that Ekaterinodar fell. Pokrovsky, learning about the battles of 2 - 4 (15 - 17) of March, went on the offensive, seized the crossing of the Kuban near Ekaterinodar. He wanted to connect with YES. Kornilov, having learned about the fall of Ekaterinodar, turned his troops southward, with the aim of crossing the Kuban, to rest the troops in the mountain Cossack villages and Circassian auls. The strategic idea of ​​the campaign on the Kuban collapsed, the army was extremely tired, lost hundreds of soldiers killed and wounded. It was necessary to rest, wait for more favorable circumstances.

Alekseev was disappointed with the turn of the army into Zakubanie, but did not insist on revising and changing Kornilov’s decision. General Denikin considered the order to turn to the south as a “fatal mistake” and was more determined. He was supported by General Romanovsky. The motives of Denikin and Romanovsky were that when the main goal of the hike, Ekaterinodar, was left, only a couple of crossings remained and morally the whole army was aimed precisely at the Kuban capital as the final point of the whole hike. Therefore, any delay, and even more so a deviation from movement towards the goal, is threatened with a “heavy blow to the morale of the army,” and high fighting spirit is the only advantage of YES. However, Denikin and Romanovsky could not convince Kornilov. The commander-in-chief remained unconvinced: “If Ekaterinodar had held out, then there would have been no two decisions. But now you can not take risks. "

On the night of 5 - 6 (18 - 19) of March, the Volunteer Army moved towards Ust-Labinsk, turning south. Sorokin, who was defeated, but not defeated, immediately began the pursuit. Volunteers pressed to the Kuban. And ahead, in the village of Ust-Labinsk, the Red troops also waited, trains with soldiers from Kavkazskaya and Tikhoretskaya were waiting there. While Bogayevsky and the Guerrilla Regiment led a heavy rearguard battle, holding back Sorokin, the Kornilov and Junker men broke through the Reds' defense, took the bridge over the river and escaped from the ring of encirclement.


General L. G. Kornilov with officers of the Kornilov regiment. To the right of Kornilov - M. O. Nezhentsev. Novocherkassk. 1918

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
Who incited the Civil War
White fought for the interests of the West
Anti-Russian and anti-state white project
How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War
How to create Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people"
How the red took Kiev
Victory of the Red Army on the Don
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  1. Korsar4
    Korsar4 15 March 2018 06: 35
    +4
    Through the eyes of an eyewitness, Roman Gul - "Ice Campaign" outlined.
    As for the Cossacks, they are tired of everything that is happening. And they are not alone.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 15 March 2018 09: 38
      +4
      Quote: Korsar4
      As for the Cossacks - tired of everything that happens

      Well, yes, my hut from the edge, for which we paid!
      Quote: Korsar4
      And they are not alone.

      The rest under the tsar's father lived in different conditions and there is little demand from them!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 15 March 2018 09: 45
        +6
        Yes. Paid. But I would not judge. Silent Don is one of those books that is worth re-reading. But in the Civil War there are no right-wingers.
        1. antivirus
          antivirus 15 March 2018 10: 04
          +2
          in Ivanovo there is Gromoboya Street-- a striker who campaigned in a thunderous voice, allegedly smoking, but against the Cossacks they went. and they dispersed the weavers. Paid for the execution of orders to disperse the demonstrations.
          who do not like it, that 10-12 hours a slave day and a garden instead of a pension
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 15 March 2018 10: 49
          +3
          Quote: Korsar4
          But I would not judge

          And here I am of a different opinion! The Cossacks decided that they were no longer war, but the most like farmers! But they just didn’t take into account that ordinary tillers have long been buried in their lands wassat
        3. The comment was deleted.
          1. DimanC
            DimanC 15 March 2018 18: 45
            +1
            Indeed, the last two sentences - yes, before the rest of the text ...
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 15 March 2018 19: 06
            +1
            Purely hypothetically: if you were at this time - would you know which side you would be on?

            Never liked to divide into "clean and unclean." In the confusion, any options are possible.
            And if: “Russians are cutting Russians” (c) is not a Civil War - what is it?

            Another thing is that in different regions - its own color. One thing is Don. Another is the Far East.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 15 March 2018 19: 31
                0
                From the side of my father, I am the peasantry. As far as I understand, there was one task - to survive.

                Probably a significant portion of the descendants from the White movement ended up abroad. Is it possible to maintain national identity for a long time in isolation from your country?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 15 March 2018 20: 04
                    0
                    Yes, first of all, the biological component in man.
                    Blaming people for surviving is hardly a good idea.

                    Remember the story of Lavrenev "Forty-first"? In different situations, people from different classes fell.

                    Those who forgot about the biological component of the offspring were not left.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
              2. d1975
                d1975 16 March 2018 00: 09
                +3
                I wanted to be polite! But do not succeed! am Where did you run so many heresies into your brain? Indeed, you should once again read the Quiet Don! This is the tragedy of the people, the civil war, there are no winners. I read your lines. And that genocide of the Cossacks in the Kuban, for example, in Art. Who carried out Poltava? Yes, it’s just people like you who still divide us.
              3. Hantengri
                Hantengri 16 March 2018 00: 11
                +7
                Quote: rew
                And who told you that the Russians fought on the side of the Reds? Prior to mental conformity with this concept, one must still be expensive. And this is a long and complex process, available at that time (1917) for a number of historical reasons only by former nobles and other sections of the population, which in no case included only slightly educated peasants.

                Those. 80% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia, in your opinion, did not grow up to Russianness with a snout? laughing And where did they come from, these flawed 80%? ABOUT! Ah, here is the answer!
                Quote: rew
                No, mental slaves fought on the side of the Reds
                Apparently in the Republic of Ingushetia massively (economic expediency for) dragged slaves from Nibiru into the Urusian not a damn thing! wassat laughing And it was this 80% alien scum that arranged the revolution! "Land to the peasants!", "Factory workers!", "Peace to the peoples!" you see a whim what cattle slave thought up !!! On and what? For the rest, for true Russians, everything was fine - the gymnasium students flushed, the roll crunched, the future holy passion bearer, kindly, went with violets for himself ... laughing
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 16 March 2018 00: 57
                    +3
                    Quote: rew
                    Not matured.

                    Justify.
                    Quote: rew
                    Where did you get that they were flawed? They just were different.

                    Those. not Russians?
                    Quote: rew
                    Do you divide people into people like you and other flawed ones?

                    Usually, I divide people into those who can think logically and those who, as a child, dropped their heads on a battery (like you).
                    Quote: rew
                    Learn the story. The first time slavery in Russia was abolished in 1861.

                    Does religion not allow to understand how a serf differs from a slave?
                    Quote: rew
                    The bourgeois revolution in February-March 1917 was organized by the nobles. Primarily.
                    Yes, and the October-January (1917-18 biennium) reactionary coup was also led by the nobleman Ulyanov.

                    Well, let’s tell me already how the nobles without an ensemble, themselves ... for one ... for three, they arranged three revolutions in Russia! Open your eyes to everyone, as everything was in reality! Can you defend yourself on this topic?
                    1. The comment was deleted.
        4. d1975
          d1975 16 March 2018 00: 01
          +1
          Yes, not paid! And just broke how many people life. And the echo of all this is still going on. Our normal ancestors were, as they say in concepts. And it is not their fault that Russia was simply ruined. Does this remind you of anything?
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 15 March 2018 07: 39
    +2
    P. Kh. Popov - emigrating since 1920. In 1939 he was arrested by the German authorities for refusing to participate in the formation of the Cossack units as part of the Wehrmacht, but was soon released with the prohibition of engaging in any public activities. USA, where he died in the city of New York. While in the USA, he tried to create a foreign Don government, but to no avail ...
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 15 March 2018 07: 53
    +15
    Kornilov, Denikin, Alekseev, Markov, Lrozdovsky and their other associates, the heroes of the Second World War, who defended Russia from the German invaders. unlike tourists, who sat in the war Switzerland and drove a knife into the back of the country.
    Eternal memory and gratitude to them for fighting for the return of power to the people and trying to prevent a slide into the dark Middle Ages that followed.
    Now the grateful people erect monuments to them:

    Monument to General Markov in Salsk
    1. VS
      VS 15 March 2018 08: 00
      +19
      WHAT ??? This is white-for power, the people fought with the Reds it turns out ??)))) HOW do they want to give the people power ??)))
      1. Gloomy
        Gloomy 15 March 2018 08: 23
        +12
        Russian, amiable, Russian.
        But the international won, to which the lists of Russian Forbes echoed.
      2. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 15 March 2018 08: 35
        +14
        Quote: V.S.
        HOW do they want to give the people power ??)))

        Yes, whatever - the Germans, the British, the French ... and under any conditions, if only not for the bloody Bolsheviks
      3. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 15 March 2018 09: 04
        +14
        Yes, white fought for the power of the Russian people, not the corrupt International.
      4. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 March 2018 09: 10
        +8
        Quote: V.S.
        WHAT ??? This is white-for power, the people fought with the Reds is ??))))?)))

        TOGO!!! Namely RETURN the power to the people who gave it to the Bolsheviks at all.
        Quote: V.S.
        HOW do they want to give the people power ??)))

        Russian to the people
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 15 March 2018 09: 42
          +7
          Quote: Olgovich
          - RETURN power to the people who gave it to the Bolsheviks at all.

          hi Greetings, my dear Olgovich! For a long time already I want to ask ... why did White lose to red? Your opinion!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 15 March 2018 20: 22
              +6
              Quote: rew
              Therefore, the country was full of ... mental slaves. And these mental slaves made up the vast majority of the population of the Russian Empire in 1917.

              It feels like you're not a slave. Therefore, you are very sorry that they won the civil war. But slaves are people too and they all want to live humanly. Therefore, I thank the Bolsheviks for teaching the former slaves how to take power into their own hands, how to throw slave owners out of the country, and how to build a workers' state.
              You in your "theory" negatively assess the liberation of slaves in Russia, I wonder if you extend your negative assessment to the struggle of slaves in the USA in the middle of the 19th century (civil war of the North and South)?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 15 March 2018 21: 08
                  +5
                  Quote: rew
                  Genetically, we are all slaves. Because those who were not slaves, they partially survived from the country, and then the Bolsheviks partially slaughtered them.

                  So you are also a slave class? So why are you tearing your ass for the whites who fought in the civil war so that the working people would again be driven like cattle into a stall, so that they would work for the former nobles, landowners and bourgeois for 10-14 hours a day.
                  Yes, and my question is not answered. Why do you recognize the struggle of American blacks for the progressive liberation, and the working people of tsarist Russia refuse this? His position was no better than that of American blacks.
                  1. rew
                    rew 15 March 2018 21: 15
                    +2
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    So you are also a slave class?

                    No, these are my ancestors from this estate. Like, I think, yours.
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    So why are you tearing your ass for whites,

                    They are "mine" for me. Therefore, I am for mine. And for whom else?
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    who fought in the civil war so that the working people would again be driven like cattle into a stall, so that they would work for the former nobles, landowners and bourgeois for 10-14 hours a day.

                    Are you still tired of retelling someone else's nonsense?
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Yes, and my question is not answered.

                    I already wrote that you have a problem understanding texts written in Russian. This is actually so.
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    His position was no better than that of American blacks.

                    In the 30-40 years of the last century? I think even worse than the blacks of the southern states. They at least did not starve to death.
                    More or less tolerantly, Soviet slaves began to live under the Communists. Like, "the good gentleman has replaced the evil master."
                  2. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 15 March 2018 22: 56
                    +2
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    who fought in the civil war so that the working people would again be driven like cattle into a stall, so that they would work for the former nobles, landowners and bourgeois for 10-14 hours a day.
                    Are you still tired of retelling someone else's nonsense?

                    What makes you think that this is nonsense, and a stranger? My grandfathers lived the first half of their life under the king, and my parents also spent their childhood under the tsar’s time, so I have first-hand information. Both grandfathers fought in the civilian army in the Red Army and Red Fleet, mother and father were in the Volga flotilla, defended Stalingrad. So I believe them more than anyone.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Gopnik
                      Gopnik 16 March 2018 12: 00
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      What makes you think that this is nonsense, and a stranger?


                      Well, you yourself write. The nonsense of your grandfathers, or rather, the commissars who crap in their brains. How do they know what the “whites” fought for?
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 16 March 2018 19: 26
                        +3
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        Well, you yourself write. The nonsense of your grandfathers, or rather, the commissars who crap in their brains. How do they know what the “whites” fought for?

                        Dear, the peasants comprehended socialism through beatings with rods of Denikin, Kolchak and others like them. As soon as the whites in some locality overthrew Soviet power, they immediately returned to the landlords and fists their lands, and the peasants to whom the Soviets allocated these lands immediately flogged their asses. There is no need for such commissars: "The beat determines consciousness." The whites very intelligibly explained to the peasants what they were fighting for, because the peasants supported the Soviet power.
                2. Stiletto_711
                  Stiletto_711 15 March 2018 23: 18
                  +3
                  Quote: rew
                  There was no civil war (read on my profile). This is the same fake as the "Bolshevik Party" or the "Great October Socialist Revolution."
                  And yes. As a Russian, I am very upset that the Russian national liberation movement in Russia (the Bolsheviks called this movement "white") was then suppressed. And the power in my homeland was seized by the Bolshevik invaders.

                  How did it happen that the Empire firmly stood on the foundation of the slogan “For God, Tsar and Fatherland”, supported by all classes, where in the ruling class and in other sectors of society the Russians were the main and titular nation, as this Empire suddenly fell apart in ruin, and in your words was occupied?
                  Or maybe the fact was that the elite of the Empire degraded and lost the ability to adequately perceive the situation in the world and in their own country, ignored the processes taking place in society and in any way prevented long overdue changes?
                  I do not justify the Reds at all, but I find no reason to fight for the power of people who drove their country into the bloody bathhouse of the World War, and even on the side of such a "friend" of Russia as England (Karl England!), People who crushed by force and drowned in blood (or Bloody Sunday is also a "fake"?) Performance of his people.
                  So most of the inhabitants of the Empire and of Russian and other nationalities did not find such reasons from here and the failure of this supposedly "national liberation" struggle. As old Machiavelli used to say: "The best fortress is not to be hated by your own people." The ruling class of the Russian Empire lost this fortress, and it, like dead wood in the forest, was boldly swept by the fire of unrest. hi
                  PS I’ll immediately clarify that I am Russian by nationality, my ancestors lived in the town of Porechye in the Smolensk province during the events described in the article and were quite prosperous merchants (the church built with their money still stands). The family lost a lot as a result of the revolution, but despite this, I am able to adequately assess and accept the causes of these disastrous events for the country. Avoiding such an assessment and trying to explain everything with "machinations ......... (enter what is necessary)" is self-deception fraught with a repetition of trouble.
                  1. rew
                    rew 16 March 2018 00: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    where in the ruling class and in other sectors of society, the main and titular nation were Russians

                    In fact, Russia since 1762 (from Peter III, but in fact Karl Peter Ulrich von Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorf) was ruled by the Germans from the Holstein-Gottorp dynasty, wearing only the pseudonym "Romanovs". Moreover, in Nicholas II himself, traces of Russian blood still had to be searched with a microscope.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    how this empire suddenly fell apart

                    This is the problem of the stratification of Russian society in those years. But not property, but mental. The elite was ready for the bourgeois revolution in the country. But the country, no, is not ready for this. So what happened is what happened.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    and according to you was occupied

                    This is actually so. Because the Bolsheviks were an alien force for Russia. They behaved like occupiers.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    that the empire’s elite degraded and lost the ability to adequately perceive the situation in the world and in their own country, ignored the processes taking place in society and in any way prevented long overdue changes?

                    In fact, it was precisely the elite that carried out the February-March 1917 bourgeois revolution in the country. In my opinion, premature.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    but I find no reason to fight for the power of the people who drove their country into the bloody bathhouse of World War II

                    In fact, the autocracy drove the country there. The very thing that was overthrown by the Russians during the bourgeois revolution in the country in February-March 1917.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    and on the side of such a "friend" of Russia as England (England Karl!),

                    Being on the strong side is often profitable. Is always.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    people who crushed by force and drowned in blood (or is Bloody Sunday also a "fake"?) performance of their people.

                    You are clearly confusing the monarchists and the "white" (Russian).
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    The ruling class of the Russian Empire lost this fortress

                    The Russians (“whites”) were not the ruling class of the Russian Empire. The empire was ruled by monarchists.
                    No need to equate the monarchists with the "white" (Russian). Monarchists just fought mainly in the Red Army. True, mostly under duress.
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    but despite this, I am able to adequately assess and accept the causes of these disastrous events for the country.

                    Perhaps you are mistaken. Moreover, you are confused with the definition of who the monarchists are and who are the “whites”.
                    1. RUSS
                      RUSS 16 March 2018 09: 05
                      +3
                      Quote: rew
                      This is actually so. Because the Bolsheviks were an alien force

                      This is a plague brought in from the West, and all kinds of Marx its peddlers.
                      All r ... about from the West to us!
                  2. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 16 March 2018 12: 02
                    +1
                    Quote: Stilett_71
                    I find no reason to fight for the power of people who drove their country into the bloody bathhouse of the World War, and even on the side of such a "friend" of Russia as England (Karl England!), people who crushed by force and drowned the speech of their people in blood.


                    Wow, yes, my friend, just as Vlasov thinks.
    2. apro
      apro 15 March 2018 08: 06
      +12
      Aides of the interventionists. And fought for themselves beloved against the people. And a lot of blood was shed.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 March 2018 09: 15
        +11
        Quote: apro
        Aides to the interventionists.and fought for themselves beloved against the people. And a lot of blood was shed.

        I agree with you here: no one in the history of Russia has ever given a THREE countries to the invaders for the preservation of their power - they did it only the Bolsheviks.And they shed blood ........
        1. apro
          apro 15 March 2018 09: 20
          +8
          Read the agreement of Denikin and the Wrangel with the Allies, too, knew how to trade their homeland.
          1. Nikitin
            Nikitin 15 March 2018 10: 29
            +3
            Quote: apro
            Read the agreement of Denikin and the Wrangel with the Allies, too, knew how to trade their homeland.

            Bring these "treaties" and - WHERE there is the return of THREE countries FOREVER (as in Brest betrayal) yes
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik 15 March 2018 13: 18
            +2
            Bring - read.
    3. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 15 March 2018 08: 30
      +14
      Quote: Olgovich
      Kornilov, Denikin, Alekseev, Markov, Lrozdovsky and their other associates, heroes of the Second World War, who defended Russia from German occupiers

      There is no forgiveness to these white Judas who fought against their own people.
      Quote: Olgovich
      Now grateful people erect monuments to them.

      Monuments to these traitors put the same traitors. Well, or dark people who know little and understand the history of Russia.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 15 March 2018 09: 06
        +13
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        There is no forgiveness to these white Judas who fought against their own people.

        Good mister, how do you then explain the presence of numerous foreigners in the ranks of the "red army" who fought for the people? And how did it happen that the white generals were guarded by Russian officers and soldiers, and the red leaders Latvian arrows?
        1. BAI
          BAI 15 March 2018 09: 30
          +7
          A. I. Denikin gave him the following description: “Pokrovsky was young, of a small rank and military experience, and was unknown to anyone. But he showed seething energy, was brave, cruel, power-hungry and not very reckoned with “moral prejudices».

          What was it necessary to do so that in the conditions of the Civil War, when everyone had their hands to the elbow in blood, to deserve such a characteristic from their own?
        2. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 15 March 2018 09: 56
          +7
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Good mister, how do you then explain the presence of numerous foreigners in the ranks of the "red army" who fought for the people?

          At first you, Mr. Bad, explain the support of the foreign intervention by the idiots why all these “patriots” of you have come out on the side of England, France, Germany, Japan, etc.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          how did it happen that the white generals were guarded by Russian officers and soldiers, and the red leaders were Latvian arrows?

          For those who do not know the history of their country - Latvia was part of Russia. Or for you and some Rokossovsky, also a stranger?
          And if you consider yourselves only those who have surnames like Ivanov-Petrov, then what about Wrangel, Kolchak, Miller, Keller, etc.? Very Russian surnames laughing
          And do not forget about the "Wild Division".
          1. Nikitin
            Nikitin 15 March 2018 10: 35
            +4
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            First you, mister bad, explain the support of the foreign intervention by the idiots, why all these "patriots" of yours sided with England, France, Germany, Japan, etc.

            First the Bolsheviks gave one third of the country to German and Turkish occupiers. Forgot? request
            To the Bolsheviks -did not have NO interventionists, NO whites, NO civil war. request Don't remember again? yes
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 15 March 2018 12: 09
              +7
              First, the Bolsheviks surrendered a third of the country to the German and Turkish invaders. Forgot?
              ..And the Brest peace concluded a month earlier between the Ukrainian Rada and the Central Powers, as it were, doesn’t count? According to which Austro-Hungarian and German troops were stationed on the territory of Ukraine ... Forgot?
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 15 March 2018 13: 20
                +3
                And what does this have to do with it? No one in the UPR considers Russia’s defenders
              2. Nikitin
                Nikitin 15 March 2018 15: 32
                +3
                Quote: parusnik
                .A Brest peace concluded a month earlier between the Ukrainian Rada and the Central Powers, as it were, doesn’t count? According to which the Austro-Hungarian and German troops were sent to Ukraine ... Forgot?


                The Germans recognized only SNK as the only representative of Russia, incl. Little Russia
                UCR did not even plan to go, focusing on the Entente ...
                But the Bolsheviks literally forcibly ... dragged them to negotiations. Formally, SNK recognized the independence of Ukraine!
                the Germans, do not be fools, took advantage of the stupidity and illiteracy of the so-called "diplomats" Ioffe and Bronstein.
                Both, by the way, later finished off "party comrades", as, by the way, of the other "diplomats" of Brest. lol
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 15 March 2018 10: 35
            +7
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Explain the support of the foreign interventionists, why all these your "patriots" sided with England, France, Germany, Japan, etc.

            To begin with, the “Comrade Trotsky” was the first to call on the interventionists in Russia with the Murmansk Council of Deputies. And the Whites didn’t even act on the side of the “interventionists,” but rather they asked for help from the Entente in the struggle against German accomplices — the Bolsheviks. And, which is typical, the British, French and Americans not only did not provide real help, they also got out of Russian lands after the signing of the Versailles Peace in 1919. Without a fight with the RedsIt should be noted.
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            For those who do not know the history of their country - Latvia in

            It was recognized by the Bolsheviks as an independent state. Unlike whites. And for some reason Ulyanov, the “leader of the proletariat”, was not guarded by Russian workers, but by Latvian rebels. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Chinese, Hungarians, and other "internationalists" who fought on the side of the Reds.
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            And if you consider yourselves only those who have surnames like Ivanov-Petrov, then what about Wrangel, Kolchak, Miller, Keller, etc.? Very Russian surnames

            For me personally, the name does not matter. If a person honestly serves Russia, his nationality and faith do not matter. It is another matter if a gang declares itself to be the “Council of People's Commissars” and at the same time massively uses representatives of other nations for its protection in the place of compact residence of one people. It’s a bit like occupation.
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 15 March 2018 09: 21
        +4
        There is another point of view.

        For example Talc:

        "Cutting down the heads of the Churches.
        And glorifying the new king
        Newfound Judah. ​​"
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 March 2018 09: 22
        +10
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        forgiveness is given to these white Judas who fought against their own people.

        White shed blood for their country FOUR years in the trenches of the WWIIwhile the foreign tourists sat in Switzerland and called for the defeat of their country and the transformation of the war into ... civil. how such called in WWII? NO forgiveness for this traitors!
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        Monuments to these traitors put the same traitors. Well, or dark people who know little and understand the history of Russia

        Dark people (involuntarily) are those from whom these traitors hid the TRUTH for tens of years, banning any dissenting newspapers, books, even thoughts!
        But the truth has made its way, and monuments to the heroes are being erected.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 15 March 2018 11: 14
          +9
          Quote: Olgovich
          White shed blood for their country FOUR years in the trenches of the Second World War, while foreign tourists sat in Switzerland

          Yes, yes ... Yes, Budyonny and Chapaev, Zhukov and Rokossovsky, the mass of former tsarist officers who took the side of the Reds - all of them were not in the trenches of the WWI, but in Switzerland.
          Quote: Olgovich
          and called for the defeat of their country

          Squeal please.
          PS OLGOVICH, I offer you another object for your righteous anger - traitors from among the visitors of VO! Let me explain: Russia, to put it mildly, has very complicated relations with its partners ... oh, excuse me - with the damned Anglo-Saxons, and other merikas. Many even believe that we are at war.
          So, among the visitors of VO, there are many who, at this difficult time, dare to denigrate the most worthy sons of our Motherland. Somehow - business people who, out of mercy, give mobiles work in their oil and gas fields; worthless writers, directors, and journalists who truthfully show us our past and present; honest bureaucratic officials baking tokmo about the good of the people, etc.
          And some, in their insolence, go so far as that of Himself! criticize! And moreover, I’m not averse to changing the current magnificent system for some kind of socialism! Verily - traitors of Bogomers! This is who needs to be burned with a fiery verb. Amen!
          1. Nikitin
            Nikitin 15 March 2018 15: 46
            +5
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Yes, yes ... Yes, Budyonny and Chapaev, Zhukov and Rokossovsky, the mass of former tsarist officers who took the side of the Reds - all of them were not in the trenches of the WWI, but in Switzerland.

            Remember the composition of SNK, i.e. leaders of the movement level Kolchak and Denikin, not unter. There was NOT a single front-line soldier! But there was one ... worker Shlyapnikov (then the "comrades in the struggle finished off) yes ". There were 40% nobles! lol Deserter Dybenko and treated eczema lol in the infirmary, I hope there’s enough conscience not to consider them as such (they were also killed by "party comrades") yes .
    4. Finches
      Finches 15 March 2018 09: 06
      +13
      Olgovich, glad to see you, in your enthusiasm with "God Save the Tsar" hi but if these heroes would not have sold the king-rag, then perhaps there would have been no revolution, and so, without taking responsibility from Nicolas number 2, they, especially Alekseev, fully rest on the fullness of the tragedy that happened to the country, including and blood in the hands of their fellow citizens! And, Olgovich, a small handful of people suffering from monarchism of the brain, this is far from the whole grateful people! The simple people, basically, are still grateful to the other side of this civil conflict!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 March 2018 09: 26
        +7
        Quote: Finches
        Olgovich, glad to see you, in your enthusiasm with "God Save the Tsar"

        Greetings, Eugene! hi
        Quote: Finches
        but if these heroes would not have sold the king-rag, then perhaps there would have been no revolution, and so, without taking responsibility from Nicolas number 2, they, especially Alekseev, fully bear the fullness of the tragedy that has occurred with the country, including blood in the hands of their fellow citizens!

        Then you must agree that the terrible tragedy of 1941-42 and unimaginable losses lie entirely with the highest leadership of the USSR.
        And February. the revolution was made by the PROLETARIANS under the leadership of the Bolsheviks (read Stalin’s Short Course in the CPSU, for example).
        Quote: Finches
        And, Olgovich, a small handful of people suffering from monarchism of the brain, this is far from the whole grateful people! The simple people, basically, are still grateful to the other side of this civil conflict!

        I think it’s correct to speak only about yourself, and not for the people: the people in Salsk said your word
        1. Finches
          Finches 15 March 2018 09: 36
          +5
          The tragedy of 1941-42 really lies on the leadership of the USSR, but then they must be said to have been corrected, making sometimes tough but right decisions! This cannot be said about the leaders of the Russian Empire, including the top military commanders! I do not detract from the merits of generals and officers in World War I, but the fact remains that many of them are to blame for the revolutionary tragedy and the Civil War, and the unleashing of white terror ... Perhaps the Reds are no better, but the officers of the Imperial Army shared about 50 by 50, which means that not everything is as simple as you interpret! hi
          1. saigon
            saigon 15 March 2018 18: 39
            +3
            Gentlemen, the new monarchists somehow do not notice one interesting little thing how many gentlemen of the titled nobles were among the officers of the RUSSIAN ARMY. And where the gentlemen were hereditary nobles during the war with the Germans, and the reading is interesting.
        2. antivirus
          antivirus 15 March 2018 10: 08
          +1
          Then you must agree that the terrible tragedy of 1941-42 and unimaginable losses lie entirely with the highest leadership of the USSR.
          THE TEAM WINS, THE COACH LOSES (those hands of the country)
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 15 March 2018 10: 02
        +2
        hi Greetings Eugene!
        Often in your comments on this topic I come across the expression "king-rag", but what do you think the king was a rag?
        1. Finches
          Finches 15 March 2018 10: 24
          +5
          hi Based on my understanding, the knowledge gained, the books read, the memoirs of his contemporaries, and in the end on his affairs during the reign of the Empire, the consequences of his reign, another impression I didn’t get that he was a weak-minded person who fell under the influence not only of his wife, but also generally influenced by people who used the tsar in their interests, often opposed to the interests of Russia! But he still had a narrow horizons ... And his whole essence was succinctly characterized by General Dragomirov at the very beginning of the imperial career of Nicholas: "It’s fit to sit on the throne, but it’s not capable of standing at the head of Russia "
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 15 March 2018 11: 50
            +3
            Quote: Finches
            Based on my understanding, knowledge gained, books read

            smile As a child, I liked the dashing sailor Dybenko, only growing up, I realized that this is a fraudster, adventurer and womanizer.
            Quote: Finches
            and in the end according to his deeds during the reign of the Empire

            smile My grandmother, born in 1890 and of peasant origin, always spoke well of Tsar Father and there was nothing! The Transib, begun by his father, finished off, was the first to give a hint about disarmament, with it the gold ruble became one of the three reserve currencies, with it the income from the export of Vologda oil was higher than the income from the export of gold, it was his intervention that the military affairs of the 15 year allowed to stop the marathon The Russian army, precisely thanks to the reforms carried out under it, the workers during the war received a salary, not a sales card, and were not in a barracks position.
            But probably, Eugene, you are right! He must have been a rag! He would introduce martial law in the country, dissolve the Duma, shoot every second liberal, socialist, cadet, Bolshevik - otherwise he played all the spools, he understood the Russian people and did not want to shed blood! Pah-as there is a rag !!! yes
            1. Finches
              Finches 15 March 2018 13: 30
              +3
              Ivana, went down in history as the Great and Terrible, Peter the Great, Alexandra the Liberator, Peacemaker, etc., and Nicholas II - bloody, but clever Clea made adjustments - a rag! For the majority, he is a rag and what is allowed to the sailor Dybenko is never allowed to Caesar - there is a special demand from them! hi
              1. Nikitin
                Nikitin 15 March 2018 15: 53
                +3
                Quote: Finches
                and Nicholas II - a bloody, but clever Clio made adjustments - a rag! For most he is a rag

                Speak, after all, from YOURSELF, and not from the majority. It, the majority, didn’t give you (like the Bolsheviks) the right to speak on your own behalf.
                Never. hi
                1. Finches
                  Finches 15 March 2018 15: 56
                  +4
                  You are sure? hi And I'm not a Bolshevik, I just try to objectively approach the History of my Motherland! The monarchists of the reign of Nicholas did everything to ruin the country, and the Bolsheviks did everything to preserve it - this is a historical fact, whether you like it or not, but it is a fact!
                  1. Nikitin
                    Nikitin 15 March 2018 16: 04
                    +3
                    Quote: Finches
                    You are sure?

                    I know! hi
                    Quote: Finches
                    ! The monarchists of the reign of Nicholas did everything to ruin the country,

                    Under the monarchists and VP-NOT there were independent Ukraine and Kazakhstan. what's wrong with you? belay
                    Quote: Finches
                    and the Bolsheviks did everything to preserve it - this is a historical fact, whether you like it or not, but it is a fact!

                    And her Bolsheviks collapsed, see 1991, laying the foundation for that of 1917.
                    And it is a fact whether you like it or not! hi
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 15 March 2018 16: 06
                      +2
                      1991 is another story! There was no Kazakhstanov, so what - the Empire, after all, collapsed anyway - and the Bolsheviks are absolutely not to blame for this!
                      1. RUSS
                        RUSS 16 March 2018 09: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Finches
                        1991 is another story! There was no Kazakhstanov, so what - the Empire, after all, collapsed anyway - and the Bolsheviks are absolutely not to blame for this!

                        The CPSU is the heiress and assignee of the Bolsheviks. The first Bolsheviks cut Russia into borders, and under their heirs, these borders also exploded.
                      2. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 16 March 2018 10: 36
                        +3
                        Quote: Finches
                        - After all, the empire broke up - and the Bolsheviks are absolutely not to blame for this!

                        When did she break up ?! belay
                        ONCE AGAIN: there was neither Ukraine, nor Kazakhstan under the Empire and the EaP, even independent Finland was NOT.
                        EVERYTHING is only AFTER the THIEF — study the facts! hi
                    2. andj61
                      andj61 15 March 2018 16: 07
                      +2
                      Quote: Nikitin-
                      Itata: Zyablitsov
                      ! The monarchists of the reign of Nicholas did everything to ruin the country,
                      Under the monarchists and VP-NOT there were independent Ukraine and Kazakhstan. what's wrong with you?

                      With the monarch - I agree. But with VP ... recourse Do not remind me when the Central Council was formed in Kiev? wink hi
                      1. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 16 March 2018 10: 38
                        +3
                        Quote: andj61
                        With the monarch - I agree. But with the VP ... Do not remind me when the Central Council was formed in Kiev?

                        What is "happy"? belay In what the bordersWhat REAL power did she have? Tell me! yes
                        And compare with the INDEPENDENT Owls. stolen goods created and recognized by the Bolsheviks hi
                    3. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 15 March 2018 19: 53
                      +5
                      Quote: Nikitin-
                      And the Bolsheviks ruined it, see 1991, laying the foundation for this in 1917.
                      And it is a fact whether you like it or not!

                      Where did you dig this fact?
                      In 1991, the Bolsheviks were no longer in power. After Stalin's death, they were gradually squeezed out of all government bodies and replaced by former Whiteguards, Trotskyists, Bandera, Vlasovites who were released from the camps, and they, in turn, launched their children into power, and now the grandchildren - their followers - anathema the Bolsheviks. So the destruction of the USSR is your work.
                      1. rew
                        rew 15 March 2018 19: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        so that the destruction of the USSR is your work.

                        Is this some kind of negative phenomenon?
                        Are you sure that Tajiks and Estonians are one and the same people?
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 15 March 2018 21: 13
                        +3
                        Quote: rew
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        so that the destruction of the USSR is your work.

                        Is this some kind of negative phenomenon?
                        Are you sure that Tajiks and Estonians are one and the same people?


                        Do you think this is a wonderful event? Then why do you and your keyboard mates cry that these peoples separated after the destruction of the USSR?
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Nikitin
                        Nikitin 16 March 2018 11: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        belay In 1991, the Bolsheviks were no longer in power. After the death of Stalin, they were gradually squeezed out of all authorities and replaced by former White Guards, Trotskyists, Bandera, Vlasov

                        That is, in your opinion, the real Bolsheviks turned out to be helpless wimpswhom some Khrushchevites threw out calmly and without tension ?! belay lol
                        You have a good opinion of them! lol good
                        By the way, where were these MILLIONS thrown out? Where did they go and why they were not heard at all? request fool
                2. saigon
                  saigon 16 March 2018 20: 31
                  +1
                  Is it possible on my own behalf and not on the majority? And that the king is the last betrayed by gentlemen ministers, generals officers, probably a model of a solid man? Solid leaders are not massively betrayed.
                  To the article about the moral qualities of gentlemen generals. and some of the nobles were something they did not fulfill their oath to the tsar, but he and them money and ranks and other non-people. How sweet gentlemen the crystal bakers forget about it, oh, these gentlemen the nobles how many of them escaped to Oyropy and Omeriki, and not to fight for their Tsar. It’s strange as a junker, the students fought, I respect them, I’m silent about their duty to fight, but where is the noble militia in orderly rows and columns for the tsar and Russia going into battle? Such thoughts are not funny
    5. shuravi
      shuravi 15 March 2018 14: 59
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      Kornilov, Denikin, Alekseev, Markov, Lrozdovsky and their other associates, the heroes of the Second World War, who defended Russia from the German invaders. unlike tourists, who sat in the war Switzerland and drove a knife into the back of the country.
      Eternal memory and gratitude to them for fighting for the return of power to the people and trying to prevent a slide into the dark Middle Ages that followed.
      Now the grateful people erect monuments to them:

      Monument to General Markov in Salsk


      This is not a hero, so, a royal henchman.
      Real heroes look like this:
      1. Nikitin
        Nikitin 15 March 2018 15: 56
        +4
        Quote: shuravi
        This is not a hero, so, a royal henchman.
        Real heroes look like this:

        It is unfortunate that the Heroes who defended their homeland in the Second World War are nobody for you.
        But smart people said that WWII is just a continuation of WWII ...
        1. shuravi
          shuravi 15 March 2018 16: 30
          +3
          Quote: Nikitin-
          Quote: shuravi
          This is not a hero, so, a royal henchman.
          Real heroes look like this:

          It is unfortunate that the Heroes who defended their homeland in the Second World War are nobody for you.
          But smart people said that WWII is just a continuation of WWII ...


          The heroes of WWI were in the trenches. And those who understood that it was necessary to be with the people, and not try to return the traitor king to the throne.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 15 March 2018 16: 40
            +3
            Quote: shuravi
            The heroes of WWI were in the trenches. And those who understood that it was necessary to be with the people, and not try to return the traitor king to the throne.


            Well, i.e. just Markov
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Nikitin
            Nikitin 16 March 2018 12: 02
            0
            Quote: shuravi
            The heroes of WWI were in the trenches.

            I listed them. They were with the people and were against him and went.
            Traitors are ilichi, who gave THREE countries for power.
            The emperor did not.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. shuravi
          shuravi 15 March 2018 20: 18
          +2
          Quote: rew
          Quote: shuravi
          This is not a hero, so, a royal henchman.

          Each nation has its own heroes.
          Heroes of the Russian people, they are alone. And the heroes of the Soviet, others.


          Soviet and Russian have one. And those that you say are not people, but scum.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. shuravi
              shuravi 15 March 2018 23: 39
              +3
              Quote: rew
              [
              Wrong.


              Not at all. And here you are lying.


              And the "bastards" of the Soviet and Russian are different.


              I already realized your “Russians” are those who fought in the ROA.
              Or these.
              1. rew
                rew 16 March 2018 00: 13
                +4
                Quote: shuravi
                I already understood

                I don’t know what you “understood” there, more than once the enemies of Russian and Soviet could even coincide. Like friends.
                But it was all about the monument to General Markov in Salsk.
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 16 March 2018 14: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: rew
                  Quote: shuravi
                  I already understood

                  I don’t know what you “understood” there, more than once the enemies of Russian and Soviet could even coincide. Like friends.


                  I say there are Russians = Soviet, and there are Russians = Nazis. Fortunately, the second is much smaller.

                  But it was all about the monument to General Markov in Salsk.


                  Well? In the name of what did he kill the Russians?
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 16 March 2018 15: 54
                    +1
                    Duc, for Russia and the better than he prepared letterhead-brackets-dzhugashvili, the life of the Russian people.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 16 March 2018 19: 56
                      +1
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      Duc, for Russia and the better than he prepared letterhead-brackets-dzhugashvili, the life of the Russian people.

                      Only for some reason, all the peoples of the destroyed USSR constantly with great reverence and nostalgia remember life under the Soviet regime.
                      1. Gopnik
                        Gopnik 16 March 2018 23: 20
                        +1
                        do not speak for all. In addition, no one found life under the tsar-priest of the living. Like life under Stalin, in general. Remember life in the late USSR
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 17 March 2018 02: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Gopnik
                        do not speak for all. In addition, no one found life under the tsar-priest of the living. Like life under Stalin, in general. Remember life in the late USSR

                        Why can't I say that? All social networks are filled with nostalgic comments about the USSR. My parents lived in the Stalin era, and also spoke well of them. Read and you, for example, about the Stalinist economy, you will know a little more about this time, maybe it will reach you, how the enemies of the Soviet government are deceiving you. Here are some links.

                        http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/klassovaja_borba/p
                        richiny_porazhenija_socializma_v_sssr / 4-1-0-50

                        http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/k_kakomu_socializm
                        u_zovut_bolsheviki / 1-1-0-46

                        http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/stalinskaja_model_
                        socializma / 1-1-0-55

                        http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/publ/o_gosudarstvennom_
                        kapitalizme / 1-1-0-56
              2. RUSS
                RUSS 16 March 2018 09: 12
                +3
                Quote: shuravi
                I already realized your “Russians” are those who fought in the ROA.

                It is your sick red ideology that is guilty of the fact that so many former communists left to fight in the ROA.
                In World War I there were so many defectors?
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 16 March 2018 14: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: RUSS
                  Quote: shuravi
                  I already realized your “Russians” are those who fought in the ROA.

                  It is your sick red ideology that is guilty of the fact that so many former communists left to fight in the ROA.
                  In World War I there were so many defectors?


                  This is when the whole army fled from the front?
                  1. Gopnik
                    Gopnik 16 March 2018 15: 53
                    +2
                    and, characteristically, not to the Germans.
                    1. shuravi
                      shuravi 19 March 2018 17: 35
                      +1
                      Quote: Gopnik
                      and, characteristically, not to the Germans.


                      So in the domestic, no one ran to the Germans.

                      But which is characteristic, the Red Army did not stand against Germany alone, but throughout continental Europe. The army of the Republic of Ingushetia was fighting in a secondary direction.
                2. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 16 March 2018 19: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: RUSS
                  In World War I there were so many defectors?

                  You have been answered this question so many times before, is it time to memorize the answer, or are you just reading your comments?
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 18 March 2018 10: 53
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    You have been answered this question so many times before, is it time to memorize the answer, or are you just reading your comments?

                    I asked, I ask and I will ask what would eat into the brain!
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 18 March 2018 22: 49
                      +1
                      Quote: RUSS
                      I asked, I ask and I will ask what would eat into the brain!

                      Dear, you need to be treated, your clinic begins, as in Olgovich. He, too, at first as you wrote, then he suddenly began to imagine the dead with braids, and now here are the green people.
              3. Gopnik
                Gopnik 16 March 2018 12: 05
                +2
                Vlasov is a Soviet bastard, after all, he is a participant in the civil war on the side of the Reds and a member of the CPSU
    6. sergo1914
      sergo1914 15 March 2018 15: 18
      +3
      Quote: Olgovich
      tried to prevent a slide into the dark Middle Ages that followed.


      Industrialization. Victory in World War II. space flights, free medicine and education, a five-day work week ... what a gloomy "Middle Ages".
      PS Ah ... well, yes ... stop a hundred millens executed ... Well, they didn’t quarter. What is the middle ages?
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 16 March 2018 11: 27
        +1
        Quote: sergo1914
        Industrialization.

        Due to the peasantry that was driven into collective farms, this is by the way the beginning of the end of the peasantry in the USSR.
        And do not forget about Western engineers, about equipment and machine tools from the West, thanks to which there was industrialization.

        Quote: sergo1914
        space flights

        The United States also soon flew into space, and what thanks to the party?
        Quote: sergo1914
        Victory in World War II.

        Victory is ours, but at what cost and despite the mistakes and shortcomings of the then leadership.
        Quote: sergo1914
        , a five-day work week ...

        So in Europe as well, or even less, unlike the same red China.
    7. Looking for
      Looking for 15 March 2018 17: 11
      +1
      Monuments to these killers is a temporary fashion.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 18 March 2018 10: 54
        0
        Quote: Seeker
        Monuments to these killers is a temporary fashion.

        Temporary fashion for Stalin.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 18 March 2018 22: 53
          +1
          Quote: RUSS
          Temporary fashion for Stalin.

          This is not a fashion. This is the purification of the name of I.V. Stalin from defamation and recognition of his true merits.
  4. Gloomy
    Gloomy 15 March 2018 07: 56
    +10
    The Komsomol fuse of Mr. Samsonov disappeared: neither agitation, nor propaganda. It's weird. Did you feel sick for an hour?
    It is somehow unusual to read a note written by him without obligatory accesses to the Bolshevik-savior of Russia from the vile claws of world imperialism in the person of the treacherous West, who tried to convert Holy Russia-Russia to his colony with the help of his puppets of white fascists, but received a decisive rebuff from true Russian patriots - Bolsheviks! =)
  5. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 15 March 2018 09: 03
    +12
    An extremely sane article from Mr. Samsonov. Not without Soviet cliches about "counter-revolution", but also without fantasies about "superethnos" and "savior of civilization — the Bolsheviks."
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 15 March 2018 10: 43
      +5
      For several years I counted: Imperial, National Bolshevik, historian, communist, conspiracy theorist. This article is from a historian.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  6. XII Legion
    XII Legion 15 March 2018 10: 35
    +17
    There are no winners or losers in civil wars
    One squandering of the popular forces and the death of the best
    Photo
    The Combined-Officer Regiment of Dobrommia performs in the Ice campaign. February 1918
    passes as "One and regiments at the imperial review near Warsaw, December 17 or 18, 1914"

    Published in the pre-revolutionary edition.
    But these are details.
    I agree that the article is balanced, and that’s good.
  7. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 15 March 2018 12: 02
    +3
    I read somewhere that it was during the Ice Campaign
    the so-called "mental attacks" were born: in fact, growth, etc.
    They were caused by a simple factor: the White Guards were on the march
    continuously, whole days without sleep. And if they were lying, then immediately
    fell asleep in a dead sleep. Therefore, I had to attack on the move,
    without the usual bedding and running.
    And on the march they marched with their elbows so that falling asleep on the go could not
    to break down the ranks.
    (English soldiers also walked during the many-day crossings in Africa).
    Then they tried to use these mental attacks without any reasonable
    causes. Like the Kappelites against Chapaev. Such an episode did take place.
    In addition to unnecessary large losses, it did not lead to anything good.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 15 March 2018 12: 51
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Like the Kappelites against Chapaev. Such an episode did take place.

      Most of the Russians Kappel is known for the movie "Chapaev", where the "Kappel people" fearlessly go to the "psychological attack" - chest machine guns. The episode is fictional, so Kappel and Chapaev did not come across in battle.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 March 2018 12: 58
        +1
        But Kappel did lead his people into absurd psychic attacks. Only the Chinese Red Army soldiers defeated him, and not the Chapaevites.
        But just like in the film - they were cut out from machine guns
    2. Nikitin
      Nikitin 15 March 2018 16: 00
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      I read somewhere that it was during the Ice Campaign
      the so-called "mental attacks" were born: in fact, growth, etc.
      They were caused by a simple factor: the White Guards were on the march
      continuously, whole days without sleep. And if they were lying, then immediately
      fell asleep in a dead sleep. Therefore, I had to attack on the move,
      without the usual bedding and running.

      The reason was much more prosaic-the fierce poverty of ammunition: White did NOT have cartridges and shells. Generally!
      They took bayonets and seized ammunition.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 15 March 2018 17: 17
        +2
        "They took hostility" ////

        But in this, I'm sorry - I do not believe stop . Bayonet attacks
        stopped in the 1st World War. There is absolutely nothing without cartridges
        do. Kornilovites attacked immediately and fired volleys
        from rifles at close range.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 16 March 2018 09: 09
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This is not a hero, so, a royal henchman.

          Stupid Soviet stamp.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 March 2018 11: 57
            +1
            This, sorry, is not my quote. Not my vocabulary.
        2. Nikitin
          Nikitin 16 March 2018 12: 06
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          But in this, I'm sorry - I do not believe

          Here one must not believe, but simply KNOW!
          There are memoirs of the participants of the campaign: they only beat off ammunition, they didn’t have their own in general. w / roads and transportation were only at the red
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Bayonet attacks
          stopped in the 1st World War.

          And WWII ?! belay
          1. Nikitin
            Nikitin 16 March 2018 14: 29
            0
            Read Roman Gul hi
  8. Curious
    Curious 15 March 2018 14: 09
    +3
    I wonder how long it will take until those who want to smash their forehead against this "wailing wall", which Samsonov palms off, smash their heads, and this withering wither?
    I understand that among the "debaters" there are also those whom the bullet that hits the head will not do much harm (Romania Mare). These will pound against the wall for a long time. But the rest?
    By the way, in today's article the role of the masters of the West in the events described is not completely disclosed. Is this what happened without them?
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 15 March 2018 14: 35
      +5
      I agree that there is no desire to even argue against those fighting against the wall ... To refute some kind of nonsense .. somehow the Entente’s troops were in Russia because they were guarding their property, they concluded the Versailles peace and they kind of left .. And somebody, I read the Compiegne Agreement ... on a truce ... Tired of repeating that there were two Brest peace .. on the role of the masters of the West, I caught sarcasm .. But ... if the Entente countries did not intervene in the civil war .. it ended faster and probably , was not so bloody .. As an example of the event in Syria, if not for the United States and its comrades with their support of the barmaley .. There would be no Russian participation and the civil war would be over .. I’m interested in that, Samsonov began publishing (not his own) articles on the Civil War, it will be covered in all regions or limited only to the south of Russia ...
      1. Curious
        Curious 15 March 2018 14: 53
        +5
        Do not look for logic in a process that is created for completely different purposes. The main thing here is to arrange srach. Here, in principle, articles can not be written. Just write one line, suppose "Lenin saved the Russian Empire." And that's it, megasrach is provided. The next day we write "Lenin - a project of the masters of the West." And the soul swept over the bumps. At the arena all the same and even the previous comments can be used. And so on to infinity. Given the progressive dullness of the masses, the future of the authors of the project "Historical megasrach" looks cloudless.
        1. motorized rifle
          motorized rifle 15 March 2018 19: 38
          +1
          Here is the micro statistics for this article (at the time of writing):
          "white" - 109 pluses
          "red" -93 plus
          So, we’re fighting, gentlemen, comrades! How is it there:
          "... I’ll die on that one anyway
          On that distant on Civil ... "
          1. Curious
            Curious 15 March 2018 19: 47
            +1
            And I have for whom - "for the Communist Party or for the Bolsheviks?"
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 15 March 2018 21: 39
            +2
            Oh how! What a wonderful micro-study. And why would that be so, huh? Why are the Reds in the minority ?!
            1. Curious
              Curious 15 March 2018 22: 11
              +3
              Maybe a decrease in the number of participants indicates a positive trend. Maybe all the same it comes to the people that the organization of this “struggle in manure” is a pure provocation and it is worth doing something more productive?
    2. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 16 March 2018 07: 45
      +2
      Quote: Curious
      I wonder how long it will take until those who want to smash their forehead against this "wailing wall", which Samsonov palms off, smash their heads, and this withering wither?

      Quote: Curious
      Do not look for logic in a process that is created for completely different purposes. The main thing here is to arrange srach. Given the progressive dullness of the masses, the future of the authors of the project "Historical megasrach" looks cloudless.

      On the one hand, you are probably right, and on the other, you are reluctant to give up to the talkers the topic of the October Revolution, and subsequent events. Moreover, this topic is still very acute in our country.
      Quote: Curious
      Maybe a decrease in the number of participants indicates a positive trend. Maybe all the same it comes to the people that the organization of this “struggle in manure” is a pure provocation and it is worth doing something more productive?

      And what do you think is more productive? To take part in endless patriotic themes about how we once again defeated America-Europe?
      1. Curious
        Curious 16 March 2018 11: 18
        +1
        You are from one extreme to the other. Theoretically, the site contains the material that provides maximum traffic to the site. Therefore, again in theory, the quality of materials is determined by the intellectual level and the demands of the bulk of site visitors.
        On the other hand, demand can also be formed in a certain way.
        Hence, such topics as “historical outline”, “world-wide taxes”, “superethnous opposition to all”, “all-fools” and others, etc. etc. The number of variations and combinations is unlimited.
        And by no means do you defend and defend the historical truth by participating in these discussions. The bulk of the participants simply do not need it. Try to recall the case when you managed to convince someone. Or persuade the "top winners" to a sober analysis of events. I'm afraid you don’t remember.
        But decide whether or not to participate in this process. Of course, to you.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 16 March 2018 12: 10
          0
          To be honest, not a fig did not understand what extremes you are talking about.
          Quote: Curious
          And by no means do you defend and defend the historical truth by participating in these discussions. She simply does not need the bulk of the participants

          In principle, yes, I agree. So I already wrote that:
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          On the one hand, you are probably right, but on the other, you are reluctant to give up to the talkers the topic of the October Revolution, and subsequent events

          And one more funny observation. Here you are, and not only you, kindly write indulgently about “to beat against the wall”, “to smash the forehead”, “srach-megasrach”, “dulling the masses”, “fussing bugs”, etc., etc. And this despite the fact that the people who wrote this kind of kamenta themselves scribbled thousands, and even tens of thousands fellow comments! For comparison, I have 559 winked Although I’m sitting on these commentators before lol
          1. Curious
            Curious 16 March 2018 13: 48
            +1
            By extremes, I meant your alternative in the form of uropatriotic themes. As for the number of comments, I actually do not see a direct connection with the topic under discussion, since the commentary is different for the commentary. Indeed, in the same section of the “News” there are field marshals who have actually written tens of thousands of comments, and all in this section only. And the thoughts in their comments are as much as in the dung of pearls. Other sections where you need at least a little mind, they do not comment. There is a type of Olgovich, with a twilight state of mind, replicating the same groans from article to article. But not all of them are. There are people who really have something to say, share knowledge with others, I just communicate like-minded people. That is, the number of comments does not always indicate their low quality. And, accordingly, their absence does not mean the absence of znganii. Not everyone loves the public expression of their thoughts.
            If you have questions specifically to me, I will try to answer.
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 16 March 2018 15: 27
              +1
              In my opinion, in all sections of VO, and in almost all articles, one way or another, there is uroapatriotism.

              And do not you enter into disputes? Which according to your words is absolutely useless.
              Quote: Curious
              There are people who really have something to say, share knowledge with others, just communicate with like-minded people

              OK. A person has knowledge. Well, he voiced them. And what did you achieve? Your words:
              Quote: Curious
              Try to recall the case when you managed to convince someone

              That is, according to your logic, this knowledgeable person should not have entered into a discussion.
              And as for the oligovic-like, in any case they climb into all the topics, and if there is even the slightest opportunity, they crap on the Soviet Union, and everything connected with it. So to avoid communication with them will not succeed.
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 16 March 2018 20: 21
          0
          Quote: Curious
          And by no means do you defend and defend the historical truth by participating in these discussions. The bulk of the participants simply do not need it. Try to recall the case when you managed to convince someone.

          Dear comrade, the fact is that, in addition to the discussion participants, ordinary readers also read comments, and if they read only nonsense of Rus, Gopnik, captain, olgovich and the like, then ordinary zombies threaten readers, therefore they have to clarify the historical truth, find arguments that not everyone knows. We are well aware. that our opponents cannot be persuaded, some of them write nasty things about the Soviet past because their ancestors were offended by the Soviet government, others for money.
          So our discussions are nothing more than ideological struggle - the struggle for the minds of workers. The entire Internet is flooded with chernukha about the Soviet regime, the truth is just beginning to break through, and at least short-sighted to hand over to opponents of the ideas of socialism.
  9. Alex_59
    Alex_59 15 March 2018 14: 50
    +3
    I look at the comments as an entomologist for fussing bugs. Gentlemen, commentators, I would be interested in an experiment of such a plan. Is it possible to get at least one article on the topic of civil war, Stalin or Nicholas 2 without srach and comments that offend the feelings of believers of the opposite side? Is it purely "weak"? A sort of test for denseness (recall, the 21 century in the yard, everyone we have been arguing about for a long time here is alive - what are the lovers of erotic punishment of the dead called there?)
  10. shuravi
    shuravi 15 March 2018 15: 05
    +3
    I read the debate, I remembered. There was a case in Tula. One girl literally got everyone with her languid sighs, they say, was born at the wrong time. She would have: balls, beauties, footmen, cadets.
    And someone who had access to the archives unearthed her pedigree. No blue blood was found from the serfs.
    1. Gopnik
      Gopnik 15 March 2018 16: 42
      +2
      Expected, III?
  11. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 15 March 2018 22: 32
    +2
    Quote: rew
    I already wrote that you have a problem understanding texts written in Russian. This is actually so.
    Quote: Alexander Green
    His position was no better than that of American blacks.

    Sorry, but this is your understanding problem. Although no, this is most likely a nasty trick that is not used in honest discussion. So often VI. Lenin, they will tear out a piece of quotation and context, where he writes that someone needs to be shot or imprisoned, and shamelessly brand him as a terrorist.
    You, too, took a sentence out of context: "Why do you recognize the struggle of American blacks for the progressive liberation, and the working people of tsarist Russia refuse this? His position was no better than that of American blacks. " In my opinion, everything is written according to the rules of Russian grammar and to a normal person everything is clear "His position (this refers to the situation of the working people, which follows from the previous sentence) was no better than (position, also follows from the previous sentence) American blacks.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  12. motorized rifle
    motorized rifle 16 March 2018 03: 54
    +1
    No matter how anyone wants to take revenge, calm down, nothing will come of it! Neither the Reds will receive the USSR, nor the Belye- the Russian Empire. Every return is a regression. It’s stupid to arrange cockfights for the fun of our enemies, like football fans. Moreover, victory, God forbid, one side or another, immediately a political ideology will arise, just after it there will be a struggle with dissenters, and again you will have to cost gulags or hard labor. Enough is enough, huh? Like there in the song:
    We have such a concern
    Our concern is simple
    If my native country lived
    And no other worries
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 16 March 2018 20: 29
      0
      Quote: motorized infantryman
      We have such a concern
      Our concern is simple
      If my native country lived
      And no other worries

      Maybe you had in mind: "So for God-oh-oh-oh-ligarchs, we will hear a loud cheers, cheers-cheers !!!"
  13. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 16 March 2018 19: 49
    +1
    Quote: Nikitin-
    That is, in your opinion, the real Bolsheviks turned out to be helpless weaklings, whom some Khrushchevites threw out calmly and without tension ?!
    You have a good opinion of them!
    By the way, where were these MILLIONS thrown out? Where did they go and why were they not heard at all?

    Well, what do you think so primitively? Is it really hard to think about it?
    There were no millions of Bolsheviks at that time. During the Great Patriotic War, the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) lost three members of the party of real literate Bolsheviks who were brought up in the ideological struggle in the pre-revolutionary time, in the civil war, during the construction of socialism in the USSR. They were replaced by heroes, but politically illiterate, because there was no candidate experience at the front, during which the person joining the party was ideologically prepared. Therefore, disguised revisionists, it was not difficult to deceive them and lead them. The remaining Bolsheviks were simply removed from the leadership, unlike the White Guards, they did not harm either the Soviet power or the people. They understood that the Soviet people were infected with a petty-bourgeois ideology and that education of a proletarian class collectivist ideology was again needed. To the best of their ability they did it. I think they coped with this task, because after them there remained a galaxy of modern Bolsheviks. During perestroika, the people wanted to deal with Gorbachev's lies and the ideas of Bolshevism were again in demand.
  14. Gopnik
    Gopnik 16 March 2018 23: 18
    +2
    Alexander Green,
    so supported that then until the middle. 30 organized "kulak rebellions", yeah
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 17 March 2018 02: 21
      0
      Quote: Gopnik
      Alexander Green,
      so supported that then until the middle. 30 organized "kulak rebellions", yeah

      Have you heard about the bond between the working class and the peasantry? The poor and middle peasants supported the Soviet power, without their support the Soviet power would not be able to resist. It goes without saying that the kulaks, the rural bourgeoisie, organized riots, so they were subject to destruction as a class.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 17 March 2018 21: 29
        +1
        How many fists in Russia, however. And they say the village was poor. A whole class !!! Not even a social group, but a class! Not so bad to know the village under the king and lived, huh? Well, fools, loafers and drunks were enough then and now. The pillar of the revolution, so to speak. And as there were no kulaks and no one began to fist, so the "support" in the 91st and spread out, like a pile of dung under a boot.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 17 March 2018 21: 52
          +6
          Quote: kalibr
          ... as there were no fists and no one to fist, so the "support" in the 91st and spread out ...

          Lying is bad negative
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 17 March 2018 22: 16
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          How many fists in Russia, however. And they say the village was poor. A whole class !!! It’s not even a social group, but a class! It’s not so bad to know the village under the king lived, huh?

          This passage of yours once again confirms that you, as a teacher of the History of the CPSU, were not present, but nevertheless I think it will not be a revelation for you that there were even fewer nobles in Russia, but they were also called a class and not a social group.
  15. ccsr
    ccsr 17 March 2018 18: 43
    +1
    Quote: Cheerful
    But the international won, to which the lists of Russian Forbes echoed.

    But didn’t the Russian Yeltsin create Forbes lists?
    He closed the CPSU and baptized frantically - is that how you explain?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 17 March 2018 21: 26
      +1
      It was bought by American spies and bankers ...
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 17 March 2018 22: 26
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        It was bought by American spies and bankers ...

        And this is so. Yeltsin from the fists. Is this not enough for betrayal?
        Before the coup of 1991, Yeltsin repeatedly traveled to the United States, did not expel from the American embassy in Moscow. And when a crime was committed against the USSR in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, the first person he called was President Bush.
  16. ccsr
    ccsr 18 March 2018 10: 42
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    It was bought by American spies and bankers ...

    And the fact that he was a purely Russian drunk, a rogue and a scoundrel, you certainly can not come to mind. So it seems easier to explain our Russian world order. And he was not a spy when he was a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union - this is all rubbish in which more than one serious person who remembers that time will not believe. Yakovlev - he was recruited, it is already reliably known, but there is no data about Yeltsin. He was just a scoundrel obsessed with power, and there was nothing else in him. These are Russian people too ...
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 19 March 2018 14: 01
      0
      It's a shame for the hegemon that you write ... Spy - easier! But that’s why our spies didn’t “spy” everyone there, and why didn’t Bush sell himself to us like Yeltsin did to them?
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 19 March 2018 14: 10
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        But that’s why our spies didn’t “spy” everyone there, and why didn’t Bush sell himself to us like Yeltsin did to them?

        Not really like that - for example, we did a good job of Schroeder:
        Gerhard Fritz Kurt Schröder (German: Gerhard Fritz Kurt Schröder; born April 7, 1944, Mossenbach (Blomberg)) is a German statesman and politician. Federal Chancellor of Germany (October 27, 1998 - November 2005). Chairman of the Board of Directors of Rosneft PJSC since September 29, 2017.