Military Review

Don Republic Ataman Krasnov

111
100 years ago, in May 1918, the establishment of an independent state of the Great Don Army, led by ataman Krasnov, was proclaimed on the territory of the Don Cossacks Region. The “Democratic Cossack Republic”, unlike the whites, who relied on the Entente, was oriented towards Germany.


prehistory

During the confrontation of the Don government of Kaledin and the Volunteer Army of Alekseev and Kornilov with the Reds, most of the Cossacks took the position of neutrality. Don Cossacks were tired of the war, and did not want to participate in the new, many sympathized with the ideas of the Bolsheviks - decrees on peace and land. The Cossacks hoped that they would drive out the newly appeared Ataman and the Whites, and they would heal calmly. Therefore, there were red Cossacks who fought against the forces of Kaledin and the Whites. As a result, the neutrality of the bulk of the Cossacks allowed the Red troops to crush the government of Kaledin and knock out the Volunteer Army from the Don.

However, the policy of the Soviet government and the actions of local authorities quickly led the Don to a new uprising. New authorities often acted thoughtlessly, chopped off their shoulders, destroying age-old foundations (in particular, the Cossack military class). In addition, among the Bolsheviks were so-called. revolutionaries-internationalists, “Trotskyists”, who could only destroy and oriented themselves towards Western centers in their activities, carrying out the installation for the complete demolition of “old Russia”. It is also worth remembering that in the wake of unrest, chaos, various scum, assassins, antisocial elements, which in ordinary life could not turn around in full force, crawled up.

Russian Cossack troops were abolished, and the story began to begin. All this was accompanied by attempts at land redistribution, requisitions, punitive expeditions, executions and terror. As a result, not only Cossacks, but also nonresident peasants (immigrants, members of the non-indigenous population, who did not have full rights in the area of ​​the Don Cossacks) were reinstated against themselves on the Don. Disputes began between the Red Cossacks and the Bolsheviks. Pushed into the background, Golubov and the commandant of Novocherkassk Smirnov opposed Rostov. Golubov even allowed the assistant of the deceased ataman Kaledin, General Mitrofan Bogayevsky, to speak at the rally. Rostov (Don Soviet Republic) sent a punitive expedition. Golubov killed.

Insurrection

The impending wave of the German invasion inflated the smoldering sparks of the uprising on the Don in a big fire. Red troops retreated from Ukraine, the Red Guards, often no different from the usual bandit formations. This led to a new wave of violence and robbery. This was the last straw, the Donians could not stand it and exploded. 14 on April 1918, the Cossacks of the villages closest to Novocherkassk, attacked the city and occupied it. The Red Cossacks of Golubov declared neutrality and left. 16 April red, pulling up reinforcements from Rostov-on-Don, recaptured the city.

But the fire has already spread. At the same time, the detachment of General Peter Popov (he after the death of Kaledin went to the Salsk steppes to continue the struggle) went back over the Don and moved to the liberation of the right bank villages and Novocherkassk. Thousands of Cossacks flocked to him. Popov was proclaimed commander of the Don Army. The Cossacks made raids on the reds of the Reds, sent envoys to the villages that had not yet risen. 23 April (6 May) 1918, Popov's squad occupied Novocherkassk. But luck could be short-lived. Red troops launched an offensive on the rebels from the north and west. April 25 (May 8) The Bolsheviks launched a successful offensive on Novocherkassk. The Cossacks, who could not withstand the attacks of the enemy, began to retreat.

The uprising was doomed to defeat. But the rebels were saved by the German invasion and the appearance on the Don of the Volunteer Army of Denikin (he led the DA after the death of Kornilov) and the Drozdovsky detachment. The volunteer army, after the defeat at Yekaterinodar, was in a critical situation, as it had lost hope of creating an anti-Bolshevik bridgehead in the Kuban. The scouts led by Colonel Bartsevich were sent to the Don, they returned with a hundred Don Cossacks. Bartsevich reported to the army command about the anti-Bolshevik uprising on the Don and the fact that the Cossacks "beat the brow of the Volunteer army, asked to forget the old and come to the rescue as soon as possible." In addition, Bartsevich reported the approach of German troops to Taganrog.

The Cossack uprising revived White’s hope of making Don the core of anti-Bolshevik resistance. After analyzing the situation, the headquarters of the White Army decided to go to the Don in order to get the opportunity to wage a big war, and not partisanship in the Caucasian foothills. On April 16, White left Uspenskaya, and on the night of April 17 crossed the railway between Eya and Belaya Glina stations. After a halt in the Bitter Beam, the army moved forward and spent the night in the Kuban stanitsa Ploskoy, having covered a distance of 70 versts a day. In Plos'ka, volunteers met the Don detachment, which reported that the Bolsheviks had launched an offensive against the rebels of Zadon's stanitsa. The Donets asked for help. The army was transferred to the bed, from where parts of Glazenap and Bogayevsky came to the aid of the Dontians. On April 20, Bogayevsky's brigade took Yegorlykskaya, and the First Mounted Regiment of Colonel Glazenap liberated Mechety and Kagalnitsky. The hut was freed from the reds. Thus, K 29 April (12 May) Dobromrmiya went to the south of the Don region in the area Mechetinskaya - Egorlykskaya - Gulyay-Borisovka.

Meanwhile, the Cossacks in the Novocherkassk area were saved by the Drozdovsky detachment. Drozdists, who made their amazing march from Bessarabia, through the south of Little Russia, on April 21 (May 4) took Rostov. But they were not enough to keep the big city. The Reds pulled up reinforcements, including from Novocherkassk, and the next day they beat the whites out of the city. At this time, when the Drozdovites also found themselves in an extremely difficult situation - among the large forces of the Reds, and without hope of success, the Donians called for help. Drozdovsky detachment helped the Cossacks to take Novocherkassk again. May 7 Drozdovtsy, enthusiastically greeted by the inhabitants of Novocherkassk, in orderly rows entered the capital of the Region of the Don Cossacks. On May 11, the Cossacks took possession of Aleksandrovsky-Hrushevsky and set about creating their own army. By the middle of May, the Don Army already had 17 thousand fighters with 21 guns. On May 28, the Fitzkhelaurov detachment (9 thousand people) attacked the village of Morozovskaya, where the red parts of Schadeko (18 thousand soldiers) stood. After four days of fighting, the Reds began to retreat to Tsaritsyn. Near the Surovikovo station, the Reds clashed with the Cossack detachment of Mamantov (8 thousand soldiers). At first, Mamantovu had to go tight - he had already fought hard battles on the Chir River, and parts of Shchadenko went to his rear. Mamantov fought on two fronts. But the Fitzkhelaurov Cossacks were already in the rear of Schadenko. Squeezed from two sides, the red group was broken. This was the second serious victory for the Cossacks. It allowed the rebellious Cossacks of the southern and northern districts to be united into a united front. By mid-June, all the Don Cossacks were united under the general command.

As a result, the Soviet power on the Don collapsed due to the mistakes of the leadership and the German invasion. 8 May 1918, the capital of the Don Republic, Rostov-on-Don, was taken over by German troops and Cossacks without a fight. The Germans occupied the western part of the Region of the Don Cossacks, including Rostov, Nakhichevan-on-Don, Taganrog, Millerovo, Chertkovo. The leadership of the Don Soviet Republic was evacuated to Tsaritsyn. The head of the republic — the chairman of the SNK and the military commissar F. G. Podtyolkov returned to the north of the JEM, trying to find support among the riding Cossacks. However, the Cossacks disarmed Podochkova’s squad and arrested him, and on May 11 was tried and hanged.

Don Republic Ataman Krasnov

General, ataman of the Great Don Army Peter Nikolayevich Krasnov

Cossack Republic

With the support of the German invasion and the white detachments (Denikin and Drozdovsky), the Cossacks were able to make a successful uprising, occupied Novocherkassk and announced the creation of the Great Don Army. On May 11, delegates from stanitsas and military units gather in Novocherkassk and establish the Don Circle of Salvation. Solved questions about the establishment of a firm authority and order, the creation of a standing army and elected a new ataman. General Popov was considered sluggish and indecisive. Colonel Denisov showed himself well during the uprising, but was considered young and did not enjoy prestige among the older generation. They pushed Krasnov, a veteran of two wars, a guardsman who had military awards and a former corps commander who tried to repel Petrograd from the Reds along with Kerensky. It was a solid, decisive and successful commander. His position was close to the Cossacks: since the united Russia is no more, the Don must become an independent state, establish peaceful relations with Germany (as the most powerful force in southern Russia at that time) and Ukraine; do not interfere in other people's strife and live a free Cossack life.

May 13 military ataman elected Major General Peter Krasnov. Ataman received the supreme power between the sessions of the Circle, the army commander, external relations and legislation. Krasnov, in contrast to the white generals, elects Germany as the patron and addresses the emperor Wilhelm with a letter of cooperation and a request for a protectorate. He also turned to Berlin for help with weapons and offered to establish trade relations. In the second message to Kaiser Wilhelm Krasnov, he also asked that later, as they were liberated from the Bolsheviks, Germany recognized the right to independence not only of the Don, but also of the Kuban, Terek and Astrakhan regions, as well as the North Caucasus. And also acted as a mediator in the negotiations with Soviet Russia on the establishment of peaceful relations with the Don. In addition, he asked Germany for assistance in returning Kiev to the Don Taganrog District, and giving Russia back "for strategic reasons" Voronezh, Kamyshin and Tsaritsyn with their surroundings. In exchange, the ataman promised complete neutrality, guaranteed the right of preferential export of excess food and economic advantages.

The German authorities recognized Krasnov’s government (but ignored the second letter). Berlin benefited from an independent Don. Germany did not want to divert forces to war with the Cossacks. And the Cossack Don covered the German occupation zone from the eastern flank, was a buffer from both the Reds and the anti-German Volunteer Army. The Germans did not refuse to help with weapons or ammunition - they were in bulk at the front depots of the collapsed Russian front. Let the Russians get stuck in a fratricidal war, not be able to prevent Germany from solving its strategic tasks. In addition, the Don people paid for their weapons with bread, which Germany needed. For a rifle with 30 ammunition - 1 pood (16 kg) grain. A German Mark course was installed at 75 cop. Don currency. The Don-German expert commission on commodity exchange was established in Rostov; sugar supplies from Ukraine began. Also, the Germans helped the Don government in the issue of Taganrog. The Donets considered him their own, Kiev clung to the “bridge” to the Kuban. It came to fighting the Don with the Ukrainian Haidamaks. Under pressure from the Germans, the dispute was resolved in favor of the Don. For Germany, it was advantageous to cut off the "bridge" to the Don-occupied Regions occupied by the Red Kuban. After that, the economic and political relations between Kiev and Novocherkassk improved.

Relations with the leaders of the White Army was difficult. The Don Army did not intend to obey Denikin. The Cossacks did not want to have an anti-German leader in the neighborhood of the German army. Whites were angry about the pro-German orientation of Krasnov, they were counting on the support of the Entente in restoring "old Russia." In addition, the command of the White Army and Krasnov had a different military strategy. Krasnov wanted to round off his possessions and offered Denikin to advance on Tsaritsyn. This made it possible to obtain industry and military warehouses of Tsaritsyn, opened the way to the Ural Cossacks, possibly to unite with the Czechoslovakians (that is, allies in the Entente). On the other hand, Dobromrmiya needed replenishment and rest. In the rear, in the south, remained a powerful red Caucasian group. The White Army had a lot of Kuban, who did not want to go to the north, but would gladly go to the Kuban. And the whites did not want to fight for the interests of Krasnov - did he want to seize Tsaritsyn for himself or his German allies, so that the Germans would break through to the Volga? As a result, Denikin and Alekseev abandoned a joint campaign against Tsaritsyn. The next blow, after rest and replenishment, they outlined for the Kuban.

However, Krasnov could not break off relations with Denikin in the face of a common red threat. White was sympathized with by many representatives of the Don officers. Breaking with the White Army meant for Krasnov to cause strong opposition on the Don and weaken positions in the face of the Red Army. As a result, the Cossacks Krasnov and Denikinians became allies. The Don government and the whites did not climb into each other’s internal affairs. Denikin remained on the Don, covering it from the south and southeast. In Rostov and Novocherkassk, the rear units of volunteers were located — hospitals, hospitals, recruitment centers, etc. Rostov and Novocherkassk were the rear of both armies — the Don and the Volunteer. The government of Krasnov supported, as far as possible, white weapons, ammunition, financially. But Krasnov’s personal relations with the white generals were bad. Ataman communicated with Denikin, Alekseev and Lukomsky only by correspondence.

Having become an ataman, Krasnov actively engaged in the development of the army, showing himself to be a good organizer. Nonresident peasants were accepted for military service, for which the Cossacks complained to them and the land was allocated. Officers of the former imperial army were encouraged to return to serve in the Don army, which greatly strengthened its hierarchical structure. Resumed training for officer personnel. The Novocherkassk military school with the infantry, cavalry, artillery and engineering departments, the Don officers school, reopened aviation school, military paramedic courses and the Don Cadet Corps. To supply the army, they organized a cloth factory, military craft schools, and the Russian-Baltic factory in Taganrog began to produce ammunition. The villages themselves supplied their regiments with food. As the advanced ones were removed, they began to seconde to the regiments of business executives, traders and cooperators, who took care of the supply and distributed the production of the Cossacks.

Headquarters were created in the military formations, and the new Don Army began to nominate its strong commanders - Generals Mamantov, Denisov, Fitzkhelaurov, Colonel Guselshchikov and others. Military courts were introduced in the Don, mobilization of 25 ages was announced. Cossacks born in 1899-1900 were identified in special military formations, called the Young Army. In the training camps, 2 infantry brigades, 3 horse divisions, artillery and other units were formed from them according to pre-war staffing schedules, charters and programs. According to the plan of Krasnov, they were to become the core of the personnel army of the Don, the Don Guard. It even created its own flotilla. Machine guns and guns were installed on passenger ships. To prepare the personnel of the sailors in Taganrog, a coastal battalion was organized. In addition, the Germans provided military assistance. By agreement with Germany, Don received 11 thousand rifles, 44 guns, 88 machine guns, 100 thousand shells and about ten million rounds.

As a result, using the old Cossack military organization and territorial military structure, the help of Germany, the Don leadership through mobilization quickly created a strong army. Significant forces, their good combat training and organization, as well as the ability not to disperse the troops, because of the benevolent attitude of the Germans, who provided the left flank of the Don Army with their position, allowed the Don troops to carry out a successful offensive. By mid-August 1918, the 60-thousandth Don Cossack Army under the command of General Krasnov captured almost the entire territory of the Don Region, except for a few villages in the eastern part of the Salsk District. Soviet troops fought back to the borders of the Voronezh and Saratov provinces and joined the Southern Front.

The Red Army could not quickly build up forces in the southern direction and crush the Cossack "state." This was due to the difficult situation on the Eastern Front (the uprising of the Czechoslovaks), and the possible danger from the German army, the position of the German forces in Ukraine allowed the Soviet troops who had gone deep into the Don region to strike at the flank. In addition, the Don Army did not pose a deadly threat to Soviet Russia. The Don Cossacks for the most part did not seek to march on Moscow. Many Cossacks thought that it was still possible to peacefully settle controversial issues with the Soviet government. And the new “powerholder” of the Don Region, the ataman Krasnov, quarreled with the white leaders about relations with Germany and the Entente. The pro-German orientation of General Krasnov caused a rift in relations with the command of the Volunteer Army. Krasnov was accused of having links with the Germans and refused to act together in the fight against the Reds. But the ataman did not smile at a quick return to the bosom of “united and indivisible Russia”, as the whites dreamed, he preferred to be the independent head of the Don Cossacks and sought only to round his possessions. To this end, the September circle of 1 September issued a decree on the occupation by the Don army of the nearest communication centers and hubs across the Don border: Tsaritsyn, Kamyshin, Balashov, Povorino, Novokhopersk, Kalach and Boguchar. These aggressive aspirations of the Don government gave a great stir to the autumn campaign on the Southern Front. The hostilities of both sides were reduced to the struggle for the possession of the Kamyshin-Balashov-Povorino-Novokhopersk-Liski railway line.


Medal of the Great Don Army: Defender of the Free Don 1917-1919
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
Who incited the Civil War
White fought for the interests of the West
Anti-Russian and anti-state white project
How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War
How to create Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people"
How the red took Kiev
Victory of the Red Army on the Don
Bloody Battle of the Ice Campaign
How Kornilov stormed Ekaterinodar
Destined to die? Died with honor!
People against power
How Drozdovtsy broke through on the Don
How drozdovtsy stormed Rostov
111 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich 24 May 2018 06: 18
    +5
    But the chieftain did not smile at the quick return to the bosom of “united and indivisible Russia”, which was what the whites dreamed of, he preferred to be in the role of the independent head of the Don Army and sought only to round his possessions.

    To know the truth, you just need to quote the primary sources, without speculating your own.
    One hundred years ago, on May 1, on the Circle, during the formation of the Cossack Republic, Krasnov said:
    Don from the time of Tsar Mikhail Fedorovich was an integral part of the Russian state. Russia is now scolded and disgraced by the Bolsheviks, it is defeated by them and lies in the wreckage. We can say that there is no Russia. Don became completely lonely. He needs - henceforth before the restoration of Russia - become an independent state
    .
    He also spoke of the need for close cooperation with Ukraine and the valiant Volunteer Army and the historic task of the Don people to save Moscow from thieves and rapists.
    And now the meaning of the events looks different: an independent state, but BEFORE the restoration of Russia, in which the dots will take part ..
    1. apro
      apro 24 May 2018 06: 26
      +6
      Quote: Olgovich
      And the meaning of the events looks different: an independent state-BEFORE the restoration of Russia.

      It remains only to wait. While someone will restore this Russia. The independent Cossacks somehow did not seek to help either white or red. The slogan my hut from the edge did not arise yesterday.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 24 May 2018 08: 13
        +2
        Quote: apro
        Quote: Olgovich
        And the meaning of the events looks different: an independent state-BEFORE the restoration of Russia.

        It remains only to wait. While someone will restore this Russia. The independent Cossacks somehow did not seek to help either white or red. The slogan my hut from the edge did not arise yesterday.

        I repeat:
        about the historical task of the Don save Moscow from thieves and rapists.
        1. apro
          apro 24 May 2018 09: 10
          +5
          And how does the creation of an independent state contribute to this? Independent not only from the reds, but also from the whites.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 24 May 2018 09: 33
            +8
            Already after the collapse of the Soviet Union, in December 1997, the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation recognized “German citizens P. N. Krasnova, A. Shkuro, Sultan-Girey Klych, S. N. Krasnov and T. I. Domanova convicted and not subject to rehabilitation "
            1. Vladimir 5
              Vladimir 5 17 August 2018 19: 41
              -2
              This decision is based on their late actions during the Second World War and does not apply to the period of the Civil War ...
          2. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 24 May 2018 17: 52
            +2
            Quote: apro
            And how does the creation of an independent state contribute to this?

            In 1920, the Far Eastern Republic was created, in the same year recognized by Soviet Russia. But the time has come and it was abolished, the same would have happened with the Krasnovites, if Kolchak had won, or fought off the Reds to the south.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 24 May 2018 18: 02
              +1
              Quote: EwgenyZ
              But the time has come and it was abolished, the same would have happened with the Krasnovites, if Kolchak had won, or fought off the Reds to the south.

              It would be ... maybe, it seems ... is this the ultimate fantasy on a historical subject?
              The FER, as a buffer between the RSFSR and Japan, has fulfilled its task; history has ordered it this way and not otherwise, so there is no need to fantasize about the "victories" of Kolchaks and the Reds.
              1. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ 24 May 2018 18: 23
                +2
                Quote: badens1111
                It would be ... maybe, it seems ... is this the ultimate fantasy on a historical subject?

                I agree, we won’t know whether or not. But given Kolchak’s position, one can firmly say that they would have liquidated it for sure, Kolchak did not recognize Finland, unlike Lenin. And Krasnov would have begun to "confuse the shores" would have got on the gallows 20 years earlier.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 24 May 2018 19: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: EwgenyZ
                  But given Kolchak’s position

                  Russia would not exist.
                  1. EwgenyZ
                    EwgenyZ 24 May 2018 22: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Quote: EwgenyZ
                    But given Kolchak’s position

                    Russia would not exist.

                    Why would it all be? A bold assumption, of course, but from a parallel reality.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 24 May 2018 23: 09
                      +3
                      Quote: EwgenyZ
                      A bold assumption, of course, but from a parallel reality.

                      Yours, yes, from there.
                      The story took place and your favorite Kolchak, has long been washed away by the Angara somewhere to the bottom of the Arctic Ocean.
                      Kolchak CHANGE
                      “Kolchak, after the October 1917 coup, appealed to the English envoy to Japan, K. Green, asking the government of His Majesty the King of England, George V, to officially accept him for service! So he wrote in his request:" ... I completely put myself at the disposal of his government ... "
                      “His Government” means the government of His Majesty English King George V. 30 December 1917, the British government officially granted Kolchak’s request. From that point on, Kolchak had officially switched to the side of the enemy, who had dressed himself in an ally toga.
                      Why the enemy? Yes, because, firstly, on November 15 (28), 1917, the Supreme Council of the Entente made an official decision on intervention in Russia. Secondly, already on December 10 (23), 1917, the leaders of the Entente's European core - England and France - signed a convention on the division of Russia into spheres of influence (for readers' information: this convention has never been officially canceled). According to it, the Allies deigned to divide Russia as follows: the North of Russia and the Baltic states fell into the zone of English influence, France got Ukraine and the South of Russia. "
                      https://topwar.ru/103797-kolchak-predatel-i-gosud
                      arstvennyy-izmennik-dvoynoy-agent-svidetelstvuet-
                      sovetnik-prezidenta-vilsona.html
                      Ilias Kalchak Pasha - that is how his name was written in the XVIII century - was forced to surrender to Russian troops under the command of Minich during the next Russian-Turkish war. After 180 years, the distant descendant of Ilias Kalchak Pasha - A.V. Kolchak - surrendered to the West all the conquests of Peter I and his heirs. That's who they are trying to present today as a true patriot of Russia and an innocently killed victim.
                      1. EwgenyZ
                        EwgenyZ 25 May 2018 09: 21
                        +2
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Kolchak CHANGE

                        Then who is Lenin? He gave the Germans Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic states, Poland, the Turks Western Armenia and the Kara region, gave independence to Finland, cut Russia into the Soviet Socialist Republic. Savior, patriot?
                        Quote: badens1111
                        "... I completely put myself at the disposal of his government ..."

                        At that time, and Britain, and France, and Japan, if you suddenly forgot, were allies of Russia, despite all the ismismalities of the neo-Bolshevik consciousness
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Kolchak has already officially switched to the side of the enemy, dressed in the toga of an ally.

                        Do you consider serving as an ally a betrayal? Then who will be the Soviet prisoners of war who escaped from captivity, participated in the French resistance, or who are the pilots of the Normandie-Niemen squadron? Are these all traitors to their countries? Interesting logic.
                        And the fact that the allies were "rotten" duck so what of this? Stalin was also an ally of the British, and despite all the vileness of the "Unthinkable", he nevertheless remained faithful to allied commitments.
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Ilias Kalchak Pasha - that is how his name was written in the XVIII century - was forced to surrender to Russian troops under the command of Minich during the next Russian-Turkish war.

                        The Bolsheviks have one stupid feature - they measure the events of past centuries with modern standards, of course there is nothing to be surprised at, because Communism is a product of the West and came to us from there, and there hypocrisy is in the order of things. In those days, such transitions were not so scrupulous, it is enough to remember how many captured Swedes are in the service of Peter I, or it is worth recalling Shamil. In the 20th century it was also: Gil-Rodionov, Kadyrov, the same Ulyanov ...
                        Quote: badens1111
                        That's who they are trying to present today as a true patriot of Russia and an innocently killed victim.

                        I repeated a hundred times, and, apparently, we must say another hundred and first one that there was a civil war, by the way, unleashed by the Bolsheviks, and there were no heroes there. There are no heroes in civil wars, and cannot be. Only now the memory of some is perpetuated, such as the mass installation of monuments and boards to a German spy, and when it comes to others, they start talking about shitty crumbs.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 02: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: EwgenyZ
                        The Bolsheviks have one stupid feature - they measure the events of past centuries with modern standards, of course there is nothing to be surprised at, becausecommunism is a product of the West and came to us from there, and there hypocrisy is in the order of things.

                        And how do you feel about the fact that religion in Russia is not its own invention? She didn’t even just come; her Rus was imposed by force.
    2. avt
      avt 24 May 2018 08: 13
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      And now the meaning of the events looks different: an independent state, but BEFORE the restoration of Russia, in which the dots will take part ..

      ,, Meaning "he always has one for his affairs - German lackey, as a result of this
      Quote: Olgovich
      And now the meaning of the events looks
      His sentence is quite correct. But the bakers from the noble assembly of the Proletarsky district, whose ancestors lashed with whips, now began to wash the black male.
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      Opponents of the Bolsheviks are a rabble from various kings, without a common ideology, relying on different foreign forces. And the current snot of bakeries about the slogan of loafers about "One and indivisible" is simply ridiculous and ridiculous.

      Softly said good The World War II was miscalculated by betraying their weak-willed commander-in-chief - Nikolashka, it was these “white knights” headed by the head of the General Staff. And the Bolsheviks won under the more severe Patriotic conditions. But they stumbled again on the eternal, classical question of Marxism - the relation to the means of production, more precisely property .. And now, instead of comprehending the history of the whole, without exaltation, the noble assembly of the Proletarsky district begins to groan on the host's whip in the Sacher Mazovian ecstasy justifying frank scum, attributing to them what they were not going to do. .
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 24 May 2018 08: 40
        +4
        Quote: avt
        The meaning of "he always has one for his affairs - German lackey, according to the results of

        As a result, German lackey is a Swiss-German foreign tourist who gave the Germans third country. Forgot?
        Quote: avt
        His sentence is quite correct.

        We will respect court decisions.
        Quote: avt
        The World War II empire was miscarried, betraying its weak-willed commander-in-chief Nikolai, it was these “white knights” headed by the head of the General Staff.

        Your Short Course VKPBE to help you: February revolution made the PROLETARIAT. They led him -Bolsheviks.
        Quote: avt
        And the Bolsheviks in conditions tougher Patriotic won.

        Yes, the brains of arranging the main front of the MV in the West, as the Emperor did, were sorely lacking. To take the brunt on yourself, alone, of course, is "success."
        Quote: avt
        And now, instead of comprehending the history of ALL, without exaltation, the noble assembly of the Proletarsky district begins to groan on the host's whip in Zacher’s Mazov ecstasy justifying frank scum, attributing to them what they were not going to do. From the word, never.

        What are your words about "never"? Less than zero. But the policy statements and the affairs of those leaders are much more significant
        1. BAI
          BAI 24 May 2018 11: 17
          +4
          Your Short Course VKPBE to help you: February revolution made the PROLETARIAT. It was led by the Bolsheviks.

          Take an abstract on the history of Russia.
          The February Revolution of 1917 and the overthrow of the autocracy
          Synopsis on the history of Russia

          The nature of the revolution: bourgeois-democratic.

          Objectives: the overthrow of autocracy, the elimination of landowner land tenure, class system, inequality of nations, the establishment of a democratic republic, the provision of various democratic freedoms, and the alleviation of the condition of the working people.

          The causes of the revolution: extreme aggravation of all the contradictions of Russian society, aggravated by the war, economic disruption and the food crisis.

          The driving forces: the working class, the peasantry, the liberal bourgeoisie, the democratic strata of the population, the intelligentsia, students, employees, representatives of oppressed peoples, the army.

          Course of events: February: strikes and demonstrations of Petrograd workers caused by dissatisfaction with the economic situation, food difficulties, and war. 14.02 - opening of the session of the State Duma. Rodzianko and Milyukov are cautious in criticizing the autocracy. Progressists and Mensheviks force a confrontation with the government. Bottom line: it is concluded that a change of government is necessary. 20-21.02 - the emperor hesitates, discusses the issue of the responsibility of the ministry, is going to the Duma, but suddenly leaves for the headquarters. 23.02/24 - spontaneous revolutionary explosion - the beginning of the revolution. 25.02-26.02 - the strikes develop into a general strike. The troops are neutral. There is no order to shoot. 27.02/XNUMX - Clashes with the police develop into battles with the troops. February XNUMX - a general strike goes into armed rebellion. The transition of troops to the side of the rebels began. The rebels occupy the most important strategic points of the city and government buildings. On the same day, the tsar interrupts the session of the Duma. The rebels come to the Tauride Palace. The authority of the Duma among the people was high. The Duma turned out to be the center of the revolution. Duma deputies create an interim committee of the State Duma, and workers and soldiers form the Petrosoviet. 28.02 - Ministers and high officials are arrested. Rodzianko agrees to take power in the hands of the interim committee of the Duma. Armed uprising triumphed. 2.03 - abdication of Nicholas II from the throne 3.03 - Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich abdicates the throne. In fact, a republican system is being established in the country. March: revolution wins nationwide.

          The results of the February revolution: the overthrow of the autocracy, the beginning of economic and socio-political reform, the formation of dual power, aggravation of problems in Russia.

          Well, where are the Bolsheviks? The bourgeoisie was at the head, and it also received power - the Provisional Government. But I could not keep it.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 24 May 2018 11: 28
            +4
            Quote: BAI
            The bourgeoisie was at the head, and it also received power - the Provisional Government. But I could not keep it.

            Everything is much more complicated and most importantly, more corrupt, because these temporary ones were just trading in Russia.
            "The interim government invites hundreds of YMCA secretaries to our country.
            Led by their secretary general John Mott, they again travel along the Trans-Siberian Railway, and what is amazing, in the royal train! The train stops at key stations, and residents see Americans and other nationalities getting out of it. "
            http://zavtra.ru/blogs/grazhdanskaya_vojna
            An entertaining look of a professional historian on the centennial event.
            Now let’s listen to the bakers, what will they give in return ...
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 24 May 2018 12: 42
            +2
            Quote: BAI
            Take an outline on the history of Russia

            1. These "abstracts on the history of Russia - a million and - with the most opposite content.
            What is yours better?
            By the way, again theft do: no author, no source, NOTHING, request
            Quote: BAI
            Well, where are the Bolsheviks?

            Nowhere.
            And in KKI VKPBE IS! Or you yourself do not believe it ?! belay
            Shaw goes where the world is heading! lol
            Reader, study the Short Course VKPBE - there are answers to all questions! yes
            So you read it? I, yes, with pleasure, a funny book! lol
            1. BAI
              BAI 24 May 2018 12: 51
              +6
              What is yours better?

              The fact that this is an official educational university course. Conforms to the specialty standard.
              So you read it? I, yes, with pleasure, a funny book!

              With your permission - I use V.P. Buldakov. Red trouble. The nature and consequences of revolutionary violence. The author is Doctor of Historical Sciences, Academic Supervisor, Chairman of the Scientific Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences "History of Revolutions in Russia" P.V. Volobuev. Although the book is not funny, it is also read with pleasure.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 24 May 2018 12: 55
                +2
                Quote: BAI
                The fact that this is an official educational university course. Conforms to the specialty standard.

                Prostrate?
                Quote: BAI
                With your permission - I use V.P. Buldakov. Red trouble. The nature and consequences of revolutionary violence. The author is Doctor of Historical Sciences, Academic Supervisor, Chairman of the Scientific Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences "History of Revolutions in Russia" P.V. Volobuev. Although the book is not funny, it is also read with pleasure

                Your right. hi
                But you did not answer the question about the Bible of witnesses of the Thief: Short Course.
                HIS conclusions do you deny? Remember WHO wrote and published it?
                And HOW do you, in this vein, understand? request
                1. BAI
                  BAI 24 May 2018 13: 32
                  +4
                  Prostrate?

                  Should. After all, this is a science, not an unfounded chatter.

                  But you did not answer the question about the Bible of witnesses of the Thief: Short Course.
                  HIS conclusions do you deny? Remember WHO wrote and published it?
                  And HOW do you, in this vein, understand?

                  You should understand by Buldakov:
                  1. The historian should treat both red and white equally.
                  2. About ignorance and the conjuncture of anti-communists, I have already quoted him 2 times, the third time I will not.
                  3. The juggling of facts pleasing to one’s own point of view and the denial of objectionable ones does not mean that this point of view is correct.
                  Oh, and by the way, what about the fact that Stalin edited the Short Course?
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 24 May 2018 14: 00
                    +3
                    Quote: BAI
                    The juggling of facts pleasing to one’s own point of view and the denial of objectionable ones does not mean that this point of view is correct.

                    BRAVO!
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 25 May 2018 05: 26
                    +2
                    Quote: BAI
                    Should. After all, this is a science, not an unfounded chatter.

                    This is a wretched education, not a science. What, as I read right now, lying on the vine. It writes:
                    workers and soldiers form the Petrosoviet.

                    Are you not funny? Formed a council party -Mensheviks, the Bund, etc., and not "workers"
                    Quote: BAI
                    1. The historian should treat both red and white equally.

                    Yes. And who is the historian here?
                    Quote: BAI
                    2. About ignorance and market conditions anti-communists I have already quoted it 2 times, the third time I will not.

                    You have NOTHING to say, for the Communists have been and remain the most ignorant. More than 10 million people died of starvation as a result of their "skillful" rule - well characterize the "craftsmen"
                    Quote: BAI
                    3. Juggling your own point of view facts and the denial of objectionable does not mean that this point of view is true.

                    You and the rest of the communists cannot even do this, alas, your failures are so obvious and glaring
                    Quote: BAI
                    Oh, and by the way, what about the fact that Stalin edited the Short Course?

                    He wrote it, not only edited it.

                    We state: you, Julia, have not answered the question:
                    But you did not answer the question about the Bible of witnesses of the Thief: Short Course.
                    HIS conclusions do you deny? Remember WHO wrote and published it?

                    Answer. Incidentally, it is obvious: Stalin asserted ANOTHER than you. And you cannot refuse him righteousness.
                    So turn around, like in a frying pan. lol
        2. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 24 May 2018 12: 46
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          Yes, the brains of arranging the main front of the MV in the West, as the Emperor did, were sorely lacking. To take the brunt on yourself, alone, of course, is "success."

          Mr. yap, what does your passage mean? Did the Soviet leadership never attempt to organize a struggle against Nazi Germany? And these are not Western countries in all indulging Hitler?
          Maybe you still agree that the USSR is to blame for unleashing WWII?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 24 May 2018 13: 02
            +2
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Mr. yap, what does your passage mean? The Soviet leadership never made an attempt to organize a struggle against fascist Germany

            What to you
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Mr. yap

            it is not clear? belay In WWI, the main front is in the West. So, RI- had enough brains.
            In WWII, even having already the VISUAL experience of WWII, we have the main front. So, the brain is not enough.
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            The Soviet leadership never made an attempt to organize a struggle against fascist Germany

            Did. What ended up, remember?
            And the leadership of Russia did. .
            catch the difference? yes
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 24 May 2018 13: 46
              +5
              Quote: Olgovich
              Did. What ended up, remember?

              Mr. yap, the success of certain agreements depends on the will and will of all parties. The leadership of the Soviet Union had both a desire and a will to conclude anti-fascist agreements, but other candidates for an agreement did not have them. Moreover, these other candidates even indulged the fascists.
              Consequently, the blame for the fact that in WWII our country had to fight against the Nazis for almost a long time alone, lies not with us, but with the countries of the West.
              Hence the logical conclusion - to blame the leadership of our country for:
              Quote: Olgovich
              the brain to arrange the main front of the MV in the West, as the Emperor did, was not catastrophic. To take the brunt on yourself, alone, of course, is "success."

              - maybe only finished ... to
              What we once again made sure.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 25 May 2018 06: 50
                +1
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Mr. yap, the success of certain agreements depends on the will and will of all parties. The leadership of the Soviet Union had both a desire and a will to conclude anti-fascist arrangements but they did not have other candidates for agreement. Moreover, these other candidates even indulged the fascists.

                "Consent is a product with complete non-opposition of the parties!"(C) lol
                So
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Mr. yap
                , once again for the tankers: RI-COULD agree, the USSR-Could not. Those. they were able to convince, prove, find the terms of agreement and agree, but these are not. That unclear?
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                From here quite logical conclusion - blame the leadership of our country for:
                Quote: Olgovich
                the brain to arrange the main front of the MV in the West, as the Emperor did, was not catastrophic. To take the main blow on itself, alone, of course, is “success” - only the finished one can ... k.

                See the "logic" where it does not smell? That yes
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                - can only

                В
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                what we once again made sure.
                lol
    3. naidas
      naidas 24 May 2018 11: 31
      +1
      Quote: Olgovich
      To know the truth, you just need to quote the primary sources, without speculating your own.

      Yes, you are a fan of Putin, he also says a lot of things and points out.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 24 May 2018 12: 43
        +2
        Quote: naidas
        Yes, you are a fan of Putin, he also says a lot of things and points out.

        And? recourse request
        1. cost
          cost 24 May 2018 18: 52
          +4
          Good day to all.
          Olgovich hi , zoolu350 hi, Lieutenant Teterin hi Alexey RA hi
          Terrier, in fact, the storytelling itself began on January 24, 1919.
          Circular letter from the Organizing Bureau of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.)
          On the attitude to the Cossacks
          24th of January 1919
          Circularly. Secretly

          Recent events on various fronts in the Cossack regions — our advancement deeper into the Cossack settlements and the expansion among the Cossack troops — compel us to give party workers instructions on the nature of their work in the reconstruction and strengthening of Soviet power in these regions. It is necessary, taking into account the experience of the civil war with the Cossacks, to recognize as the only right the most merciless struggle against all the tops of the Cossacks through their CRIMINAL EXAMINATION. No compromises, no half way is unacceptable. Therefore, it is necessary:
          1. To conduct MASS TERROR against the rich Cossacks, exterminating them by the LITTLE; conduct a merciless MASS TERROR in relation to all Cossacks who took any direct or indirect part in the struggle against Soviet power. By the average Cossacks, it is necessary to take all the measures that give a guarantee against any attempts on his part to make new demonstrations against the Soviet power.
          2. To confiscate the bread and force to pour all the surplus in the specified points, this applies both to bread and to all other agricultural products.
          3. Take all measures to assist the relocating alien poor, organizing relocations where possible.
          4. Equalize alien "non-resident" to the Cossacks in the land and in all other respects.
          5. Conduct complete disarmament, shooting everyone who will be found weapons after the deadline.
          6. Issue weapons only reliable items from other cities.
          7. Armed detachments should be left in Cossack villages until the establishment of full order.
          8. All commissars appointed to one or another Cossack settlement are invited to show maximum firmness and to steadily carry out these instructions.
          The Central Committee decides to commit, through the appropriate Soviet institutions, the People's Commissariat of Foreign Affairs to develop in a hurry actual measures for the mass relocation of the poor to Cossack lands

          Central Committee of the RCP (b)
          RCCHIDNEY. F.17. Op. 4. D.7. L.5; F.17. Op. 65. D.35. L.216. Typewritten copy
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 24 May 2018 20: 00
            +2
            Quote: Rich
            RCCHIDNEY. F.17. Op. 4. D.7. L.5; F.17. Op. 65. D.35. L.216. Typewritten copy

            Is that all you know?
            At the center of their accusations against the Bolshevik party, of course, is the directive of the Organizing Bureau of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) On the Cossack issue of January 24, 1919. You correctly decided to devote a whole chapter to this document, which is called the "gossip" program.
            Who cares to read the realities
            https://arctus.livejournal.com/117974.html
            ““ in the Don region there is a sharp difference between the North and the South, which makes our intervention unnecessary. ”Specifically, it meant, probably, the uprising of several Cossack regiments and the villages of the north of the Don region, where there was less dominance of the Cossack kulak elite, against the Krasnov regime at the beginning 1919 year.

            This assessment of the difference between the northern and southern Cossacks in the Don was indirectly confirmed by the command of the White Cossack Don Army.

            The chief of her staff, General Polyakov, testified:

            “The northern half of the region had to be cleaned from battle with the Bolsheviks and Cossacks, and the“ rush ”of the latter was expressed in the fact that they replenished the Cossack red divisions and defended their villages and hamlets from us with extraordinary fierceness.”

            So start with Krasnov who killed at least 30000 Cossacks .... and then 5 who killed them already in Hitler’s troops.
            Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor, Honored Worker of Science of the RSFSR Pavel Akimovich Goluba “True and False of the“ Cossacking ”of Cossacks”: https://yadi.sk/d/J_9odYZv6ySDR
            1. cost
              cost 24 May 2018 20: 24
              +3
              badens1111 (Vlad): Is that all you know?

              My ancestors lived in st. Lysogorskaya since its founding, and I not only know this. however, you cannot reverse history, and we can only state the facts. Therefore, I cited this document
              badens1111 (Vlad): So start with Krasnov who killed at least 30000 Cossacks.

              March 27 - was a day of remembrance of the genocide of the Terek Cossacks. On March 27, 1921, according to the gossip program, about 12 thousand Cossacks, women, children and the elderly were exterminated in only one day, and 70 thousand were expelled from their homes. A number of deserted villages turned into "auls."
              There are few nations on earth with respect to whom the tactics of total destruction was applied. Unfortunately, such a fate befell the Terek Cossacks. Every third Cossack was killed in the 20-30s of the last century. A terrible fate befell the Cossack family. They were shot without distinction of sex and age, destroyed without trial or investigation, and the survivors were expelled from their native land.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 24 May 2018 21: 17
                +3
                Quote: Rich
                There are few nations on earth with respect to whom the tactics of total destruction was applied.

                Starting from this statement of yours, the rest of your information can not be taken into account at all, as a carrier. in itself a fair dose of lies.
                In Minvody, my father-in-law’s father remembered to death how Cossacks killed prisoners just for fun. So don’t pour crocodile tears, even though your allegations of the total destruction of Cossacks are a malicious lie, otherwise there would have been Cossack units in the Red Army since 1936 .. For example, there was one Plastak Cossack division: established on the basis of the 9th Mountain Rifle Division, renamed the 9th Plastun Krasnodar Red Banner Red Star Order, the number of personnel increased by more than one and a half times and reached 14,5 thousand. person. It should be emphasized that the division was reorganized according to special states and with a special mission. Its four regiments (five mountain rifle companies each) were reduced to three (36, 121, 193rd) regiments of a three-battalion composition. All artillery of the 256th regiment, still transported in packs, was transferred to mechanized traction. In addition, the division received an additional 1448th self-propelled artillery regiment - forty combat vehicles. !
                6th Cavalry Kuban-Tersky Cossack Chongar Red Banner Order of Lenin and Order of the Red Star Division named after S.M. Budenny
                36th Cavalry Red Banner Orders of Lenin and Red Star Division named after I.V. Stalin
                Actually, Cossack units formed before the war.

                ORDER OF THE PEOPLE'S DEFENSE COMMISSIONER OF THE USSR
                No. 061 April 21, 1936 Moscow
                On the renaming of 10, 12, 4 and 6 cavalry divisions into Cossack, on the formation of the 13th Don Cossack division and a separate cavalry brigade of mountain nationalities, and on the establishment of special uniforms for Cossack divisions
                Vypiska to:
                1. The 10th territorial cavalry North Caucasus Division, stationed on the Terek — Stavropol Territory (Mozdok, Pyatigorsk, Nevinnomysskaya), renamed the 10 Tersko-Stavropol Territorial Cossack Division.
                To exclude from the composition of units 10 of the Terek-Stavropol Cossack Division all squadrons of mountain nationalities and form a separate cavalry regiment of mountain nationalities from them with the deployment of the headquarters of the regiment in the city of Nalchik.
                2. The 12th territorial cavalry division stationed in the Kuban (Armavir, Maykop, Tikhoretskaya, Leningradskaya) renamed the 12 Kuban Territorial Cossack Division.
                3. Form on the Don (Novocherkassk, Kamensk, Millerovo, Mor'ozovskaya) the new 13th Don Territorial Cossack Division.
                5. Rename the 4th and 6th cavalry divisions (BVOs) into Cossack divisions, assigning the 4th cavalry Leningrad Red Banner Division named after Comrade Voroshilov the name: “4 Don Cossack Red Banner Division named after Comrade Voroshilov” and the 6th Cavalry Chongar Division named after Comrade 6 Budyonny: Kuban-Tere Cossack Red Banner Chongar Division named after Comrade Budenny.
                8. The new separate cavalry regiment of mountainous nationalities in Nalchik and the existing separate regiment of mountainous nationalities in the city of Ordzhonikidze - Makhachkala - to combine into a separate cavalry brigade of mountainous nationalities with the headquarters of the brigade in the city of Ordzhonikidze.
                People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR
                Marshal of the Soviet Union K. Voroshilov
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 25 May 2018 08: 52
                +2
                Quote: Rich
                March 27 - was a day of remembrance of the genocide of the Terek Cossacks. On March 27, 1921, according to the gossip program, about 12 thousand Cossacks, women, children and the elderly were exterminated in only one day, and 70 thousand were expelled from their homes. A number of deserted villages turned into “auls”

                Particularly touching is the great joy described by the Bolshevik reports of the Chechens, to whom they distributed the lands of the destroyed Cossacks.
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 25 May 2018 08: 47
            +2
            Quote: Rich
            Terrier, in fact, the storytelling itself began on January 24, 1919.

            And why did Don overthrow the Bolsheviks in 1918r?
            Precisely because the actual rumble began.
            The cannibalistic letter you quoted is already a reaction to the rebelled Cossacks.
            1. cost
              cost 26 May 2018 20: 35
              +1
              Andrei hi
              Olgovich: Why did Don overthrow the Bolsheviks in 1918?

              The beginning of a large-scale struggle of the Don Cossacks with Bolshevism in 1918 was the murder of Vasily Mikhailovich Chernetsov by the Chairman of the Donrevkom Podtelkov (at that time, for the Russian Cossacks V.M. Chernetsov was more than for our occupation Gagarin)
              By the way, the scene of Chernetsov’s death in Sholokhov’s “Quiet Don”, after which George moved from red to white, is false:
              .... "On the way, Podtelkov mocked Chernetsov - Chernetsov was silent. When Podtelkov hit him with a whip, Chernetsov grabbed a little browning from the inside pocket of his short fur coat and point blank ... clicked into Podtelkov, there was no cartridge in the gun barrel - Chernetsov forgot about this without supplying a cartridge from the holder. Podtelkov grabbed his sword, chopped it in the face, and five minutes later the Cossacks rode on, leaving Chernetsov’s corrupted corpse in the steppe. Golubov, learning about the death of Chernetsov, attacked Podtelkov with curses and even cried ....

              In fact, the seriously wounded Chernetsov was hacked by poddelkovtsami in his house on a denunciation
              Interesting fact: the first to officially name the civil war in Russia as civil on January 31, 1918 Priest Alexander Smirnov and psalm-maker Vasily Bayzdrenkov in the Panteleimon Church of the farm of Ivankov of the village of Kamenskaya. Funeral V.M. Chernetsova in the column "From which he died" they were the first in the history of Russia to write the phrase - "Killed in a civil war."
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 27 May 2018 11: 38
                +1
                Quote: Rich
                The beginning of a large-scale struggle of the Don Cossacks with Bolshevism in 1918 was the murder of Vasily Mikhailovich Chernetsov by the Chairman of the Donrevkom Podtelkov (at that time, for the Russian Cossacks V.M. Chernetsov was more than for our occupation Gagarin)

                Hello, Dmitry! hi
                Chernetsov is only one of the reasons. Recall that not all Cossacks supported him and his detachment also destroyed the Cossacks.
                Quote: Rich
                An interesting fact: the first to officially name the civil war in Russia as civil on January 31, 1918, priest Alexander Smirnov and psalm writer Vasily Bayzdrenkov

                No: the Bolsheviks recognized their civil war in their decrees back in November 1917.
                And the very first was the famous Menshevik Martov: on October 25, immediately after the Aurora shot, at the 2nd Congress of Soviets, he shouted: "This is the Civil War!"
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 27 May 2018 11: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  "This is the Civil War!"

                  Scream ... scream ... only because of your screams.
                  Who started the civil war? Discussion | RVIO
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhTyMQdRXAk
                  Everyone understands that the opinion of the historians from the RVIO is much more significant than your falsifications.
                  Who started the civil war?
                  Show answers
                  Nicholas II
                  5 (4.3%)
                  The Provisional Government
                  5 (4.3%)
                  Social Revolutionaries
                  3 (2.6%)
                  Red
                  8 (7.0%)
                  White
                  70 (60.9%)
                  The invaders
                  22 (19.1%)
                  don't know or anyway
                  2 (1.7%)
                  https://burckina-new.livejournal.com/1119595.html
  2. zoolu350
    zoolu350 24 May 2018 06: 25
    +10
    These are the idolized idols - supporters of the "One and Indivisible." Since the Brest Shame was not recognized, then for the rifles and “Hurray” on the Germans, but no. With the Germans in a hickey and lick their boots (What Krasnov, what Skoropadsky), but with the Reds who fought with the Germans, the bulky-crunch "heroes" fought until they turned blue or flee.
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 24 May 2018 06: 49
      +10
      Quote: zoolu350
      These are the idolized idols - supporters of the "One and Indivisible." Since the Brest Shame was not recognized, then for the rifles and “Hurray” on the Germans, but no.

      Absolutely right.
      Opponents of the Bolsheviks are a rabble from various kings, without a common ideology, relying on different foreign forces. And the current snot of bakeries about the slogan of loafers about "One and indivisible" is simply ridiculous and ridiculous. Bylya were simply not able to organize into a single monolith, subordinated to one goal; accordingly, they could not have united the whole country.
      And if it were not for the overseas support of these anti-Bolshevik forces, ours would crush all this mess much faster.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 24 May 2018 08: 33
        +2
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        it is a rabble from various kings, without a common ideology, relying on different foreign forces


        Is that what you call Russian officers "tsars"? Your deep respect for Russia and the Russian army is immediately apparent. And the ideology of the whites was — the restoration of lawfulness return to the hands of the people the right to determine the fate and structure of their homeland. All whites agreed that only the Constituent Assembly as a body representing all of Russia is authorized to determine the fate of the country and transfer power. For whites, the whole people was power, not a bunch of terrorists who seized power over the country.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 24 May 2018 09: 35
          +8
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          White’s ideology was — restoration of law

          Fullness to you to lie.
          Here it is your ideology- "Krasnov wrote:" We are not ashamed, but proud - to join the victorious German, Hitler National Socialist Army. We need to deserve the Russian name in it with valor, discipline and victories! ”

          Then, in the summer of 1942, Krasnov, in a letter to Ataman Balabin, complains that "the Don Cossacks did not rebel against the Jewish authorities" and decided to die for "Father Stalin." Krasnov’s conclusion: “While Moscow is writhing in the convulsions of Bolshevism, it must be subdued with the iron hand of a German soldier.” Https: //rossaprimavera.ru/article/ataman
          -kollaboracionist-krasnov-iz-predatelya-v-geroi? g
          azeta = / gazeta / 207
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 24 May 2018 10: 35
            +4
            Mr. Baden, good day to you! Please tell me, can you read? Or do you single out individual surnames and words from the text, then add your own conjectures to them? I wrote in Russian in my comments that Krasnov does not belong to whites, he is a Cossack separatist, whom the Cossacks themselves drove from the Don because of his flirting with the Germans. And the lesson of 1919 taught this idiot nothing — after 20 years, he also bowed to the Germans, not understanding that the Nazis, like the Communists, did not care about Russia.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 24 May 2018 10: 42
              +2
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Can you read?

              It seems that you do not know how.
              Already after the collapse of the Soviet Union, in December 1997, the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation recognized “German citizens P. N. Krasnova, A. Shkuro, Sultan-Girey Klych, S. N. Krasnov and T. I. Domanova convicted and not subject to rehabilitation "
            2. naidas
              naidas 24 May 2018 12: 05
              +6
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Krasnov does not apply to white


              Don Ataman Pyotr Krasnov:
              “A volunteer army is pure and infallible. But after all, it’s me, the Don Ataman, I take German shells and cartridges with my dirty hands, wash them in the waves of the quiet Don and give them clean to the Volunteer Army! All the shame of this business lies with me! ”
        2. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 24 May 2018 10: 22
          +4
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          White’s ideology was — restoration of law

          For large children, clarification is required that - legality laws - this is not something so-and-so, given to us from above, unshakable and infallible. Laws are established by people, established with specific goals, and in the interests of the ruling classes. And by themselves, laws are not good or bad, whether their population approves or not.
          Accordingly, your - "White ideology - restoration of law" - this is baby talk. The vast majority of the population did not like the old laws adopted and working in the interests of the bourgeoisie, and they did not want their return. What the Civil War clearly showed.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          return to the hands of the people of the right to determine the fate and system of their homeland

          The people determined the fate and system of their homeland - they supported the Reds, but a big kick in the ass.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 24 May 2018 10: 48
            +2
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Laws are established by people, established with specific goals, and in the interests of the ruling classes.


            Sorry, but these words are utter nonsense. Laws are established by society and in the interests of society, and not of the "ruling classes." There are no "ruling classes", there are authorities with which the society delegates administrative powers in the course of its development in order to ensure a compromise between social groups. Power can be usurped by a group of people as a result of a military invasion or armed seizure, as is the case on terrorist-controlled lands in the Middle East. Lord, you are an adult, and I have to explain elementary things that are clear to first-year students!
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Accordingly, yours - “white ideology - restoration of the rule of law” - is babble. The vast majority of the population did not like the old laws,

            And nonsense again! Old laws suited everyone except a handful of Bolshevik terrorists who, having seized power, began to selflessly destroy the thousand-year-old Russian statehood. Read about the uprisings during the Civil War — how many people rebelled against the actions of the Bolsheviks! The Tambov uprising, the Chapan war, the uprising in Kronstadt, the sabotage of the tasting of the Bolsheviks in the Urals by the people — all this, in your opinion, “the majority did not like the old laws!”
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            The people determined the fate and system of their homeland - they supported the Reds, but a big kick in the ass.

            A handful of terrorists, relying on foreign mercenaries (Chinese, Hungarians and Latvians) and forcefully recruited to serve the Bolsheviks with hunger and the threat of reprisal of Russian people, determined the fate of the country, not the people. The people were silenced by Latvian bullets in January 1918, when they demanded the work of the constituent assembly. And hell reprisals of the Cheka during the war.
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 24 May 2018 12: 33
              +4
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Laws are established by society and in the public interest ... There are no "ruling classes"

              What nonsense ... But what about for example ordinary workers, and the owners of the factories in which these workers work? Do they have equal opportunities, equal rights? And the standard of living does not differ at all? Yeah, it’s in the “interests of guardianship” - some are pulling from paycheck to paycheck, while others are buying limousines, yachts, planes. And justice equally applies to the simple Vasya Pupkin, and to Mara.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Old laws suited everyone ... A bunch of terrorists relying on foreign mercenaries ... The people were silenced ...

              Listen to the Bulk Khrusts, so the Russians are some kind of stupid and cowardly flock. Everything was fine, but then a handful of terrorists appeared, and the Russians, instead of driving all these villains away, surrendered to them without a will ...
              Threat So then our Latvians were generally not foreigners. But the litter bedding, yes, they went under the occupiers.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 24 May 2018 11: 18
          +5
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Is that what you call Russian officers "tsars"?

          And what else can you call a Russian officer who decided that Russia is no more and that he can build his own state on its territory? Yes, and in every way interfere with those who are fighting for single and indivisible.
          Or have you forgotten how Krasnov took away the Cossack units from volunteers? How did you try to put a paw on the detachment of Drozdovsky? How did you try to send volunteers to take Tsaritsyn for the Don Army?
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          And the ideology of the whites was — the restoration of lawfulness return to the hands of the people the right to determine the fate and structure of their homeland.

          Yeah ... the Supreme Ruler was especially good with legality. Well, it was necessary to manage - in half a year to turn your own rear from a source of volunteers into your army into a partisan nest.
        4. naidas
          naidas 24 May 2018 11: 38
          +5
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Your deep respect for Russia and the Russian army is immediately apparent. And White had an ideology

          The Russian corps to help you, fans of the fascist henchmen, after 20 did not calm down, White decided to take revenge together with the Germans.
        5. BAI
          BAI 24 May 2018 12: 04
          +3
          And the ideology of the whites was — the restoration of lawfulness return to the hands of the people the right to determine the fate and structure of their homeland. All whites agreed that only the Constituent Assembly as a body representing all of Russia is authorized to determine the fate of the country and transfer power. For whites, the whole people was power, not a bunch of terrorists who seized power over the country.

          Let us take, not our own inventions, but the opinion of a doctor of historical sciences.
          Buldakov V.P. Red trouble. The nature and consequences of revolutionary violence. - M .: "Russian Political Encyclopedia" (ROSSPEN), 1997. - 376 p.
          First, about those who confirm the authenticity of the facts used.
          Chairman of the Scientific Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences "History of Revolutions in Russia" P.V. Volobuev ..... Far from everything expressed by the author was accepted by him and other colleagues unconditionally S.V. Tyutyukin reacted most sharply to the general course of the author’s thought, but it seems that, with the accumulation of factual material, S.M. Iskhakov, V.L. Telitsyn, I.Kh. Urilov, most likely, does not even suspect how fruitful for the implementation of the research plan was the long-term cooperation with them - each helped in his own way, it is simply impossible to measure the degree of gratitude to each.
          But, in any case, the practical assistance of archivists to the historian is much more important than the ideological and logical support of involuntary co-authors. Taking this opportunity, I would like to note that in its current direction, the book on the “red trouble” would not have taken place without professional tips from L.I. Petrusheva and T.V. Tsarevskaya (State Archive of the Russian Federation) and E.V. Handurina (Russian State Archive of Economics).

          And now to the struggle of the White Guards for the rule of law.
          In the middle of the summer of 1919, Jews in Ukraine "were buried alive, thrown into the water, and if they tried to emerge, they were laid with butts." The days of B. Khmelnitsky were returning, but some authors associate cruelties of this kind solely with revenge for the consequences of the Bolshevik domination in Ukraine: "The concept of" communist soup "went for a walk from peasant batik and Cossack chieftains ... Several Jewish communists were cooked alive in a large cauldron in the central square of the town and forced the rest of the Jews to eat its contents "

          For academician V.I. As early as 1919, it was clear to Vernadsky that those forces that were undermining and destroying the old system (meaning liberals and monarchists) could not restore it in principle (262). “Napoleon was built, and liquefied tsarism was built,” N.V. said the ideologist of “shift work” Ustryalov (263). It was not accidental that Denikin’s constant friction with the outlying anti-Bolshevik governments, suspecting that the white generals would sooner or later destroy their independence (264). There is also such evidence: "I know many Russians (even monarchists) who hate the Ukrainians so much [meaning the Petliur’s autocrats - VB] that they prefer the Bolsheviks to them" (265). The main weakness is the inability to solve the agrarian question in the interests of the bulk of the population

          And to close the topic.
          Those who, out of ignorance or out of market considerations, are trying to present the military counter-revolution as a liberation movement or as a constructive alternative to the communist regime, are better off writing novels (it is characteristic that so many emigrants did just that).
        6. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 24 May 2018 18: 01
          +6
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          For whites, the whole people was power, not a bunch of terrorists who seized power over the country.

          What bunch of terrorists are you talking about? The Soviets of workers', peasants' and soldiers' deputies took power, and such councils were created throughout the country, it was real people's self-government, the Whites did not recognize this people's will, and therefore the people swept them out of the country. No bunch of terrorists without the support of the people would ever be able to do this.
        7. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 24 May 2018 18: 42
          +5
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          All whites agreed that only the Constituent Assembly

          This is especially evident in the constituent assembly in Omsk. And also in Yekaterinburg and Ufa.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          For whites, all the people were power,

          What for the people was the people well described by the dissident general Grigorenko. The members of the Council — not the Bolsheviks — did not fear the arrival of the whites: ““ The officer will shoot us. ”They answered them:“ For what? After all, we did not seize power. The people asked us. "And the whites really did shoot, not figuring out who asked whom for anything and how the people relate to this.
          For whites, the people were just a herd, which had a place in the stall. And if this herd imagines something on the topic "power should belong to the people," the answer is a loop and a bullet.
    2. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 24 May 2018 08: 28
      +3
      Quote: zoolu350
      These are the idolized idols - supporters of the "One and Indivisible." Since the Brest Shame was not recognized, then for the rifles and “Hurray” on the Germans, but no. With the Germans in a hickey and lick their boots (What Krasnov, what Skoropadsky), but with the Reds who fought with the Germans, the bulky-crunch "heroes" fought until they turned blue or flee.

      You have interesting logic. The country was captured by German accomplices by the Bolsheviks, most of the material and human resources in their hands, and the Volunteer Army (less than a division in the middle of the summer of 1918) had to kill itself in attacks on the well-equipped million-strong group of German troops before the liberation of Russia from the Red Judas? And leave Russia to the mercy of the Germans and their red accomplices?
      And yes, Krasnov and Skoropadsky are ordinary “separatist” separatists, who have nothing to do with whites. No wonder the Cossacks in 1919 threw Judas Krasnov from the Don completely.
      But about the fact that the Reds fought with the Germans, I would be silent in your place. If you drape regiments from German battalions, as it was in February 1918, you are called "to fight", then I am truly sorry for you.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 24 May 2018 09: 37
        +6
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        You are truly sorry

        Indeed, I, and many, are absolutely not sorry for you.
        Such as you, at all times, with any system, the first to surrender to the aggressor and then sincerely serve him, examples of Kransov and other skinning are clear evidence of this.
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 24 May 2018 12: 26
        +5
        I don’t feel sorry for you a bit. It is strange that the Bolsheviks, who did not have the opportunity to wage a classical war with the Germans (but who switched to a guerrilla war), because of the lack of an army, are scolding you, but for your boulder-cracked idols such excuses are quite acceptable. Yes, at the beginning of 1918. There were problems in the combat readiness of the army, but the Bolsheviks were SOLVING them, unlike your boulder-idols.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 24 May 2018 08: 36
      +3
      Quote: zoolu350
      but with the Reds who fought with the Germans

      The Reds and Germans fought a bit and the Shameful world was signed - losing to the losing country. The first defeat of the Soviet regime, then another defeat in the Soviet-Polish war, etc.
      1. naidas
        naidas 24 May 2018 11: 42
        +4
        Quote: RUSS
        world signed - losing to a losing country

        It seems to me that they did the right thing — when the crowd attacks (and the army really isn’t), it is necessary to reduce the number of attackers as much as possible.
        By the way, February 23.02, Army Day is the day of the reflection of the Germans by the Reds (then still not the army, but by separate units).
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 24 May 2018 11: 48
          +4
          Quote: naidas
          It seems to me that they did the right thing — when the crowd attacks (and the army really isn’t), it is necessary to reduce the number of attackers as much as possible.

          Colleague, it seems right to you.
          But those who here so violently and hatefully write against the Red Army and the USSR ... they are closer to this.
          “On February 19, 1942, the Wehrmacht’s troops occupied the Canadian city of Winnipeg. After a fierce battle with artillery that began at 7 a.m., the Germans entered the city blocks at 9.30. Winnipeg was renamed Himmlerstadt on the move, and the main street in Hitlerstrasse.

          Only a small part of citizens knew that this was an advertising campaign to raise funds for the “Big War Loan”, and the sounds of the shootout were staged. The rest took the Nazi occupation of Canada at face value. "
          read, further quite interesting.
          https://cont.ws/@m-su/953958
          1. naidas
            naidas 24 May 2018 12: 35
            +2
            globalism in action, if you live not in the country, but in the whole world, then who cares who is in power.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 24 May 2018 14: 54
          +2
          Quote: naidas
          By the way, 23.02/XNUMX-day of the Army-day of the reflection of the Germans in red (then still not the army, but in separate units)

          This date is very conditional, read more about it.
          1. naidas
            naidas 24 May 2018 18: 49
            +4
            "On February 21, 1918, the Council of People's Commissars declares a decree -" The socialist fatherland is in danger. " This decree warned all Soviet and party organizations about the danger facing the country in connection with the onset of armed gangs of German-Austrian imperialism, and called for everything to be done to repulse the enemy. In response to this decree and Lenin's appeal to the workers of Petrograd, they began on February 23 to create armed detachments to fight the troops of German imperialism. Since then, on February 23, the working people of our socialist homeland celebrate the creation of the Red Army. ”
            And yes, it was possible to choose almost any date;
        3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 24 May 2018 09: 59
      +3
      Quote: zoolu350
      Since the Brest Shame was not recognized, then for the rifles and “Hurray” on the Germans, but no.

      How to fight an external enemy when traitors shoot from the rear? What would you do? But what did Stalin do before and at the beginning of the war, avoiding such a situation? Forgot?
      Quote: zoolu350
      but with the Reds who fought with the Germans,

      The entire leadership of the Reds (SNK), instead of protecting the Motherland from the invaders, sat in the war in Switzerland, campaigning for the defeat of the invaders. The most "combat" of them, ensign, Bud. Commissar of Defense Krylenko, sat in the infirmary, with pubic eczema, from fear.
      The whites, on the other hand, came to the FRONTS of the war with the invaders, where they were (many) seriously injured in battles and awarded the Orders of St. George (Drozdovsky, Denikin, Kappel, etc.). Did you catch the difference?
      1. BAI
        BAI 24 May 2018 12: 09
        +6
        The whites, on the other hand, came to the FRONTS of the war with the invaders, where they were (many) seriously injured in battles and awarded the Orders of St. George (Drozdovsky, Denikin, Kappel, etc.). Did you catch the difference?

        Let's start again.
        Buldakov V.P. Red trouble. The nature and consequences of revolutionary violence. - M .: "Russian Political Encyclopedia" (ROSSPEN), 1997. - 376 p.
        Those who, out of ignorance or out of opportunistic considerations, are trying to imagine military counter-revolution as a liberation movement or a constructive alternative to the communist regime, are better off writing novels (it is typical that so many emigrants did just that).
        - Better not to say impossible!
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 May 2018 12: 44
          +2
          Quote: BAI
          Let's start again.
          Buldakov V.P. Red trouble. The nature and consequences of revolutionary violence. - M .: "Russian Political Encyclopedia" (ROSSPEN), 1997. - 376 p.
          Those who, out of ignorance or out of opportunistic considerations, are trying to imagine military counter-revolution as a liberation movement or a constructive alternative to the communist regime, are better off writing novels (it is typical that so many emigrants did just that).
          - Better not to say impossible!

          Why is this empty chatter?
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 24 May 2018 12: 58
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            Why this empty talk?

            Yours? Really what?
            Do not answer, the meaning of your fables has long been understood by everyone.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 May 2018 13: 10
              +2
              Quote: badens1111
              Yours? Really what?
              Do not answer, the meaning of your fables has long been clear to everyone.

              Well, I’ll just ask: What is your empty chatter comment?
              No thoughts on the topic, nothing. And for what? request
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 24 May 2018 13: 14
                +5
                Quote: Olgovich
                No thoughts on the topic, nothing. And for what?

                Indeed, why do you have no thoughts or knowledge of the topic?
                Rehash of fables, myths of all Western and local Antrus and anti-Soviet trash.
                100 years ago, Lenin explained it to people, it was not for nothing that in Ukraine he demolished all the monuments, and our mediocre authorities closed the mausoleum with plywood every holiday:
                “Look at the capitalists: they are trying to foment national enmity among the“ common people, ”and they are perfectly doing their tricks: in the same joint-stock company — Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Germans.
                "The capitalists of all nations and religions are united against the workers, and they are trying to divide and weaken the workers by national hostility!"
                IN AND. Lenin, PSS, T.23, p. 376
                1. EwgenyZ
                  EwgenyZ 24 May 2018 18: 13
                  +4
                  Quote: badens1111
                  100 years ago, Lenin explained it to people. It is not for nothing that in Ukraine he demolished all the monuments.

                  "Deserved and reward."
                  Quote: badens1111
                  “Look at the capitalists: they are trying to foment national enmity among the“ common people, ”and they are perfectly doing their tricks: in the same joint-stock company — Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Germans.

                  Until 1917, “Ukrainian” was a more territorial concept, the Russians lived there, and after 70 years it became a national one. You don’t have to blame everything from a bad mind to a healthy one.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 24 May 2018 19: 54
                    +2
                    Quote: EwgenyZ
                    You don’t have to blame everything from a bad mind to a healthy one.

                    Well, do not bring down.
                    Anti-Soviet is contagious, then goes into Russophobia, and ends like Litvinenko or Berezovsky ...
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 25 May 2018 06: 56
                  0
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Indeed, why do you have no thoughts or knowledge of the topic?
                  Rehash of fables, myths of all Western and local Antrus and anti-Soviet trash.
                  100 years ago, Lenin explained it to people, it was not for nothing that in Ukraine he demolished all the monuments, and our mediocre authorities closed the mausoleum with plywood every holiday:
                  “Look at the capitalists: they are trying to foment national enmity among the“ common people, ”and they are perfectly doing their tricks: in the same joint-stock company — Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Germans.
                  "The capitalists of all nations and religions are united against the workers, and they are trying to divide and weaken the workers by national hostility!"

                  Once again: what is your EMPTY comment, NOT HAVING anything to do with either stat or the concept of "mys", nothing to anyone?
                  FLOOD Your-who needs? fool
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 25 May 2018 07: 24
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    FLOOD Your-who needs?

                    Indeed, why do you need your plentiful verbal garbage here if all this garbage consists of lies?
                    That is, it is that very flood.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 25 May 2018 10: 33
                      0
                      Quote: badens1111
                      Indeed, why do you need your plentiful verbal garbage here if all this garbage consists of lies?
                      That is, it is that very flood.

                      Your third EMPTY chatter in a row.
                      Why clutter up the discussion?
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 25 May 2018 13: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Why clutter up the discussion?

                        You? Yes. And you are constantly being told this, a continuous chatter.
                        So I wonder, why do you write so much verbal garbage?
                        Yes, by the way, Mr. liar and provocateur, do not bother to make a scandal, you are boring ..
          2. BAI
            BAI 24 May 2018 13: 35
            +5
            Why this empty talk?

            Moreover, one does not need to expose one’s own ignorance to the public. And to comment on a topic which you do not understand.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 25 May 2018 08: 13
              +1
              Quote: BAI
              Moreover, one does not need to expose one’s own ignorance to the public. And to comment on a topic which you do not understand.

              Oh, we turned to ordinary rudeness. yes The usual reception of yours, yes
              Now essentially
              1. I express my own opinion, as do you.
              2.Who are you to lecture me? Hope you know, "hope," expression? lol
              3. It is strange to hear such advice from an individual who does not know how to express something in her own words, in view of which she pours stolen articles and opinions of others. yes
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 25 May 2018 09: 51
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                to hear such advice from an individual who is unable to express something in her own words, in view of which she pours stolen articles and opinions of others.

                Are you talking about yourself?
                Thanks for the self-criticism, we all know this for a long time.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 25 May 2018 10: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Are you talking about yourself?
                  Thanks for the self-criticism, we all know this for a long time.

                  1. Are you already a VAI? belay
                  2. LEARN personal pronouns, I propose for the hundredth time, so as not to ask people the following question:
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Are you talking about yourself?

                  fool lol
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 24 May 2018 12: 32
        +4
        Quote: Olgovich
        How to fight an external enemy when traitors shoot from the rear? What would you do?

        He went to the partisans. .
        Quote: Olgovich
        The whites, on the other hand, came to the FRONTS of the war with the invaders, where they were (many) seriously injured in battles and awarded the Orders of St. George (Drozdovsky, Denikin, Kappel, etc.). Did you catch the difference?

        Of course I did. The Reds relied on the strength of their own people, and the White on various foreign "well-wishers" of Russia, such as the Triple Alliance or the Entente.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 24 May 2018 12: 51
          +2
          Quote: zoolu350
          He went to the partisans.

          And let the traitors do from behind what they want, destroying the country? belay Obviously, I think that restoring order in the country and it, the country, with its power will be much more successful in putting pressure on the enemy than some partisans. \ I once again call on the experience of Stalin: he knew very well WHAT the traitors behind the danger represent (BOP ) and removed the threat in advance.
          Quote: zoolu350
          Of course I did. The Reds relied on the strength of their own people, and the White on various foreign "well-wishers" of Russia, such as the Triple Alliance or the Entente.

          His people refused to trust them in the elections. More choices -NOT was 70 years old.
          1. zoolu350
            zoolu350 24 May 2018 12: 59
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            And let the traitors do from behind what they want, destroying the country? belay Obviously, I think that restoring order in the country and it, the country, with its power will be much more successful in putting pressure on the enemy than some partisans. \ I once again call on the experience of Stalin: he knew very well WHAT the traitors behind the danger represent (BOP ) and removed the threat in advance. His people refused to trust them, in the elections. More choices -NOT was 70 years old.

            And the reds that were on Mars or in Russia? Makhno, this didn’t stop fighting, but you see the conditions for the bulky-crunch “heroes”. Stalin destroyed people like you, so squeeze the sting when using his name. The people CHOOSED the Bolsheviks during the Civil War and these elections are not fraught with any "roundabouts", "stuffing" and "postscripts" as the Central Election Commission of the Russian Federation does.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 24 May 2018 13: 19
              +2
              Quote: zoolu350
              And the reds that were on Mars or in Russia?

              Not on, but on yes
              Quote: zoolu350
              Stalin destroyed people like you, so squeeze the sting when using his name.

              Destroyed the entire first composition of the Political Bureau of the RSDLPB, the entire SNK, 75% of the members of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus and the 17th Congress. etc. Where am I there? belay request It is YOU he destroyed.
              Quote: zoolu350
              hold down the sting while using his name.

              Do you always hold it down? lol Shaw, by the way, will be? The scammer has nowhere to scribble, lol
              Quote: zoolu350
              The people CHOOSED the Bolsheviks during the Civil War and these elections are not fraught with any "roundabouts", "stuffing" and "postscripts" as the Central Election Commission of the Russian Federation does.

              People, finally, learn in Gr. war is not fought. He survived. And only 5 (five)% of the population fought. "Choice" yes fool lol
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 24 May 2018 16: 28
                +5
                Quote: Olgovich
                People, finally, learn in Gr. war is not fought. He survived. And only 5 (five)% of the population fought. "Choice" yes

                ABOUT! This is something new! You, Olgovich, are again supernatural wassat the voices in your head woke up, or are you, nevertheless, ready to provide the inhabitants of VO with a reference to the source of these "FACTS" (c) (Olgovich)?
                By the way, your votes, by chance, did not tell you how many of these 5% fought for the Reds, and how many for the White? laughing And then they would share it, if what!
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 25 May 2018 08: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  that

                  Leave aside, lover of the mat and ha.
                  I am your comments -Do not read
    5. Weyland
      Weyland 24 May 2018 15: 51
      +3
      Quote: zoolu350
      but with the Reds who fought with the Germans

      It is when? stop And what about the Brest peace, did White conclude? wassat Do not hurt the crap, it hurts!
      1. zoolu350
        zoolu350 25 May 2018 01: 38
        +2
        At the beginning of 1918 having a low-fighting army (February 23), after the Brest Peace with the help of partisans (Shchors, Makhno), after Compiegne by the regular Red Army.
        1. Weyland
          Weyland 25 May 2018 10: 28
          +1
          Quote: zoolu350
          February 23
          - generally a myth for internal use
          Quote: zoolu350
          after the Brest Peace with the help of partisans (Shchors, Makhno),

          but Makhno didn’t know that he was fulfilling Lenin’s secret instructions!
          1. zoolu350
            zoolu350 25 May 2018 15: 00
            +1
            Quote: Weyland
            but Makhno didn’t know that he was fulfilling Lenin’s secret instructions!

            As Lenin said about Makhno: "Companion to the first turn." But in 1918, the interests of the red Lenin and the black Makhno coincided. You know that Makhno received one of the first orders of the Red Banner? So everything Makhno knew, look at least the series about Makhno, filmed under the oligarchy of the Russian Federation, it is displayed there.
  3. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 24 May 2018 08: 21
    +4
    Article minus for attempts to juggle facts. The author cannot but acknowledge the facts of the gangster behavior of the Bolsheviks on the Don, but at the same time he is trying hard to rig the facts to link the liberation struggle of the Cossacks with German help. Nevertheless, the facts indicate the opposite — the Don was cleared of Bolshevik bandits exclusively by the forces of the Cossacks and White Guards. The Germans came to the Don land later, as vultures occupying undefended cities and taking advantage of the fact that the Russian troops were engaged in the struggle against German accomplices — the Bolsheviks.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 24 May 2018 09: 41
      +7
      There is no arguing against the Truth, as if all sorts of apologists of the bakery here did not give out what they wish for reality.
      "IN THE SOUTH OF RUSSIA USING INTERVENTS CREATED FOCUS OF COUNTER REVOLUTION: WHITE POSITION TO THE DON AT THE HEAD OF ATAMAN KRASNOV, THE VOLUNTARY ARMENIA OF GENERAL-LIEUTENANT ANTON JANEZANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANI JAN such
      (Additional source: Military Encyclopedia. Military Publishing House. Moscow. In 8 volumes — 2004)
      https://ria.ru/confrontation/20180118/1512777087.
      html
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 24 May 2018 10: 51
        +3
        Quote: badens1111
        "IN THE SOUTH OF RUSSIA USING INTERVENTS CREATED FOCUS OF COUNTER REVOLUTION: WHITE POSITION TO THE DON AT THE HEAD OF ATAMAN KRASNOV, THE VOLUNTARY ARMENIA OF GENERAL-LIEUTENANT ANTON JANEZANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANIJANI JAN such


        Judging by the style, this is a quote from Soviet propaganda “research”. Everywhere it was seen in them as “help from the interventionists”, the cliches “bourgeois-nationalist” were used, etc. These publications in the ranks of the whites also recorded Poles with Finns. It is strange that Martians are still not called White Guards in such opuses. It is clear that these cures do not reflect the real course of events, as I wrote above.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 24 May 2018 11: 49
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Judging by the style

          I don’t know how your style .. but actually this quote is a military encyclopedia. Military Publishing. Moscow. In 8 volumes, 2004
  4. bober1982
    bober1982 24 May 2018 09: 13
    +4
    What is characteristic is what epithets Krasnov and Denisov awarded to units of the Volunteer Army - "wandering musicians", and even gangs. This is what Denikin tells in his memoirs ( White movement and struggle of the Volunteer Army), in the same memoirs, Anton Ivanovich recalls the episode when his messenger deserted from the Dobr.armii to Krasnov, while stealing his horse.
    Some gangs were all around, all washed with blood.
  5. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 24 May 2018 13: 27
    +6
    Chic is still a fan - the theme of civil war. Perhaps more abruptly than the topic of the Tatar-Mongols ... laughing
    Here the engines driving this fan are powerful - Olgovich with Teterin. Even without sharing their point of view on the historical processes of the 20th century, I personally have an involuntary respect for their ineradicable desire to support the uninterrupted movement of this fan at the highest speeds. Well, once it is spinning - there will definitely be a certain amount of a known substance, and those who want to distribute this substance in a uniform layer over the surrounding ...
    In short, the moral of this story is as follows: while the perpetual motion machine of the Olgovich-Teterin system works, Samsonov will publish his articles on the topic of civil war.
    1. Curious
      Curious 24 May 2018 13: 41
      +3
      Moreover, half of this duet manages to write comments without regaining consciousness.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 24 May 2018 14: 02
        +2
        Quote: Curious
        Moreover, half of this duet manages to write comments without regaining consciousness.

        Golems?
        1. Curious
          Curious 24 May 2018 15: 39
          +2
          Hardly. The golem in its original form is a positive hero.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 24 May 2018 18: 05
            +1
            Quote: Curious
            The golem in its original form is a positive hero.

            Hmm .. means homunculi, "Homunculus - in the minds of medieval alchemists, a creature similar to man, which can be obtained artificially."
            In fact, they were not mistaken. Otherwise, they cannot understand the tendency to unmotivated lies.
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri 24 May 2018 17: 34
      +2
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      In short, the moral of this story is as follows: while the perpetual motion machine of the Olgovich-Teterin system works, Samsonov will publish his articles on the topic of civil war.

      Look at the basis, Michael, economic. Holyvar (I want it in Russian, but ... banned) = traffic = advertising = loot + improves SEO which, again, increases traffic => ++ to the bubble => Axiom: There should always be a conditional "Samsonov" the "perpetual motion machine" inflating it. laughing Otherwise there will be no site, no forum, no discussion. Capitalism, however!
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 25 May 2018 00: 48
        +3
        Quote: HanTengri
        See the base Michael,

        I try ... smile
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        you just do not like the presentation, assessment of the parties in the articles about civil; Or are you fundamentally against articles on the history of RI, PMA, GV? If fundamentally against such articles, then why? If not a secret of course.

        I do not like, first of all, superficiality, and, secondly, the bias in presentation. Plus systematic stuff about the "owners of the West." The author does not try to investigate the question about which he writes, he is trying to throw on the fan, no more. Personally, I believe these articles, I can write seven pieces a day. Control Ce, Control Ve, a couple of sentences with grammatical errors - what else? Forward, commentators, sports. The priest had a dog, he loved her ...
    3. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 24 May 2018 17: 53
      +5
      Well, firstly, the olgovic-like are noted not only in articles about the GV. For example, in topics about RI, PMV, they also regularly crap.
      And secondly, you simply do not like the presentation, the assessment of the parties in articles about the Civil; or are you fundamentally against articles on the history of RI, PMV, GV? If fundamentally against such articles, then why? If not a secret of course.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 25 May 2018 08: 24
      +1
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      In short, this moral fables this is: while the perpetual motion system of the Olgovich-Teterin system is working, Samsonov will publish his articles on the topic of civil war

      The fabulist, alas, has a mess with the concept of causal relationships: articles like this one were published in millions of copies and with communists, when the Olgovich-Teterins were not in sight.
      Accordingly, their audience was and is another and the purpose of writing is also different.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 25 May 2018 10: 44
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        The fabulist, alas, has a disorder with the concept of cause-and-effect relationships: articles such as this were printed in millions of copies under the communists, when the Olgovich-Teterins did not even mention them.
        Accordingly, their audience was and is another and the purpose of writing is also different.

        Under the Communists, they wrote with one goal, now with another. Do you really think that Samsonov, like the Communists, wants to enlighten someone? The content of his articles on the Civil War, as you rightly noted, has been known to all those more or less interested in history from the communist times, there is nothing new in them. Question: why publish them? The answer is obvious: to provoke another one, like his ... Wed ... Ah, I remembered. To provoke "a sharp surge of interest in the topic, accompanied by an active discussion of some of its aspects." And you and Techerin help him completely disinterestedly (I believe in it).
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 25 May 2018 12: 11
          +1
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Under the Communists they wrote for one purpose, now with another.

          The goal is the same as under the Communists: to assure the reader that "everything was done right." .
          And many are satisfied with this and the arguments come back positively.
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Question: Why publish them? The answer is obvious: to provoke another one, how is it ... cf.

          This is already conspiracy thesis: the author is absolutely sincere in his views and beliefs and tries to bring them to the reader. I emphasize: he presents not bare facts, but his own interpretation of events ..
          And this is where the need and desire to challenge these judgments appear, pointing out inconsistencies and contradictions. .
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          And you and Teterin help him completely disinterestedly (I believe in this).

          I am just interested in discussing such topics: seeing the weakness (absence) of the arguments of the second side, I am convinced of the correctness of my position.
          Whether we help or interfere: in something .... probably, with what we help, in something we interfere ....
          This aspect does not interest me
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 25 May 2018 12: 49
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            I'm just curious to discuss such topics.

            If it entertains you, then it remains for you only to rejoice (without irony) - the topic is endless. If you want to convince someone of something, including yourself, then it is useless work - everyone is already convinced, each of them. But if you want to arrest the spread of ideas that you think are wrong, then your actions are illogical, because with your activity you just provoke the next stuffing.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 27 May 2018 11: 47
              0
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              If this entertains you, then it only remains for you to rejoice (without irony) - the topic is endless. If you want to convince someone of something, including and myself, then this is vain work - everyone is convinced, each in something different.

              I don’t want myself, I’m already “convinced”.
              Everyone was convinced in 1984, and then somehow became unconvinced into seemingly unshakable. Not from the holy spirit? Do not forget that many just LITTLE know and sincerely wonder at so many facts.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              . But if you want to stop the spread of ideas that you think is wrong,

              I don’t have such a goal; moreover, it makes no difference to me.
              .
              then your actions are illogical, because by your activity you, and provoke another stuffing
              What is primary: an egg or a chicken? - no one still knows ...
  6. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 24 May 2018 18: 26
    +3
    "... the re-opening began" - when, in the spring of 1918? Has the author been mistaken here for about a year? However, the dribbling in 1918 really was. And it was Krasnov who carried it out.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 24 May 2018 21: 19
      +2
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      However, the dribbling in 1918 really was. And it was Krasnov who carried it out.

      Are you kidding?
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 25 May 2018 03: 45
        +2
        I state a fact.
  7. Loki_2
    Loki_2 25 May 2018 06: 42
    +3
    It seems to me that the article does not contain the most successful photograph of the illustrious general.

    This one reflects the essence of the lines much better: "... the creation of an independent state of the Great Don Army led by Ataman Krasnov was proclaimed on the territory of the Donskoy Army Region. The" Democratic Cossack Republic ", unlike the whites who relied on the Entente, was oriented toward Germany. "
    1. Each other
      Each other 27 May 2018 20: 35
      +1
      There is an even more successful photo:

      Interestingly, among the Cossacks it is customary to surrender to the enemy?
  8. Each other
    Each other 27 May 2018 20: 32
    +1
    Krasnov was a separatist, traitor and executioner. Stop romanticizing all Nazi scum. Krasnov was deservedly hanged like a dog.
    Enough to feed us with fairy tales about some kind of magical Cossacks of Krasnov. This would be a gangster state, living at the expense of looting neighbors. An analogue of Chechnya in the 1990s.