Military Review

West helped the Bolsheviks?

273
The relationship of the Bolsheviks and Westerners should be noted especially. The myth of Lenin and the Bolsheviks - “German agents” - was created in the White Guard and later in post-Soviet liberal and nationalist historiography and journalism.


West helped the Bolsheviks?


However, this is an extreme simplification - to consider the Bolsheviks as agents and puppets of German imperialism and the West as a whole. In the relations between the Bolsheviks and the West, the same tendency is observed as in the relations of the pre-revolutionary tsarist secret police with the revolutionary underground. Many revolutionaries were undoubtedly agents of the secret police. But they were double agents: in the secret police they believed that the revolutionary was her agent and even protected him from legal persecution, and revolutionaries often used the capabilities, resources and protection of the secret police from the encroachments of other law enforcement officers to realize their revolutionary goals.

The relations between Leninists and Westernizers had a similar dual nature. For their part, the masters of the West tried to use all the revolutionaries of Russia, including the Bolsheviks (as well as the feudalists of the West, the Mensheviks, the Socialist Revolutionaries, the nationalists, etc.) to realize their goals. The main thing is to crush Russia, the millennial enemy of the West. The Bolsheviks, on the other hand, tried to use the capabilities and resources of the rulers of the West in order to gain reliable rear in Western countries, to strengthen themselves in Russia and make a revolution. It should be remembered that among Leninist Bolsheviks there were also outspoken henchmen of the West such as Trotsky and Sverdlov with their teams of "militants". They were supposed to replace Lenin at the right time, take the lead in Soviet Russia and launch the process of "world revolution." Russia and the Russian people were sacrificed to pseudo-communist globalization, at the head of which, again, parasitic clans ruling the West were found. But humanity was trapped in Marxism - pseudo-communism.

At the same time, Germany was not the main sponsor and organizer of the Russian revolutionaries. It simply blames all the sins of the masters of the West (as well as the role of the main instigator of the two world wars). The Germans were solving current operational tasks - they needed a revolution in Russia in order not to lose the war. The German bloc could no longer wage war on two fronts, cracked at the seams and lost the war of attrition. It was necessary to destroy one of the fronts - Russia turned out to be the “weak link”. Therefore, the Germans and supported all sorts of revolutionary forces in Russia. By the way, the German elite did not have the sense to conclude a separate peace with Tsarist Russia (and it’s better not to fight with it at all) or to create a joint Russian-German army already with Soviet Russia in order to jointly fight the global octopus on the basis of Great Britain and the USA. But the strategic axis Berlin - Petersburg (Moscow) is a nightmare for the masters of the West, in the 20th century, in the 21st century. Together, Russia and Germany could challenge the power of the “golden calf” on the planet (and with the possible support of Japan, China and India).

Thus, the Germans solved only current tasks and were satisfied with the collapse of the Russian empire, the separation of the western provinces from it, and the occupation of Ukraine and the Ukraine. They were able to liberate part of the forces for the transfer to the Western (French) front and were engaged in robbery, exporting food to Germany, exhausted by the war. But in the end they lost because they got carried away with intervention and plunder. Russian expanses swallowed up a large number of German divisions needed in France, the decomposition of personnel began, the virus of revolution penetrated the German troops. That is, Germany has strategically lost from an imaginary victory and capture of the western part of Russia.

With the masters of France, England and the USA everything was much more complicated. On the one hand, the West unreservedly supported the February revolution, the destruction of the Russian autocracy. Moreover, Western masters acted as the main organizer of February, using for this the Russian Westernizers - the February-masons. World War was organized by the West to eliminate the main rivals - Germany and Russia. In this case, the owners of the United States, who were among the leaders of the Western project as a whole, had their own tasks. The Americans had to simultaneously crush Germany, and weaken Britain and France with their colonial empires. The USA promoted the ideas of "democracy" and "market", they wanted to seize the markets of their partners, to penetrate their colonies. Therefore, for some time, the States considered liberal post-February Russia as a junior partner that can be used against stronger Western partners (England and France), and at the same time robbed Russia, made it a raw materials appendage and a sales market for growing American industry. Hence the support of the Provisional Government of Russia.

On the other hand, the mediocre Masonic Provisional Government of Russia has completely discredited itself. All the foundations and braces of the old Russia were destroyed. In Russia, the process of Russian unrest began. As a result, the feudalists were no longer needed by western “partners.” They simply did not control Russia. Then the owners of the United States relied on the Bolsheviks (or rather their internationalist, Trotskyist wing). And at the same time, in order to further deplete the Russian civilization, the Russian people, having deprived them of any chance of revival and restoration, the Westerners organized the second stage of the fratricidal Civil War. More ambitious, with real divisions, corps, armies, fronts and strategic directions.

The fact is, during the first stage of the Civil War (the end of 1917 of the year - the beginning of 1918 of the year), the Bolsheviks, the Red Army won a convincing victory. The rebellions of the Cossacks, the centers of the white movement in the Don, the Urals, in Siberia were suppressed. Moreover, the red took Kiev. White and separatist nationalists (in particular, Ukrainian) were defeated. That is, the war could end with a little blood. And then the West made its move. Turkey staged a massacre in the Caucasus. Germany began a large-scale intervention, which was partially provoked by the agent of US influence, Trotsky. This led to the loss of the western part of Russia, including Ukraine-Little Russia, and the defeat of the Reds in Finland. Britain, the USA, France and Japan are also beginning to intervene, seizing strategic ports and points of Russia. This led to a new take-off of the white movement, previously broken, and various separatist nationalists. White and White Cossacks were able to establish themselves again on the Don. Moreover, Western masters struck a powerful blow to Russia - they organized and supported the rebellion of the Czechoslovak Corps. With one strategic operation, our enemies took away the country's main communication linking the center of Russia with Siberia and the Far East - the Trans-Siberian Railway. The Czechoslovakians seized the “iron belt” of Russia, which bound the country together. All sorts of anti-Bolshevik forces - the Liberal Democrats (February-Westerners), the Whites were able, under the cover of the Czechoslovaks, to create their own "governments" and armies from Kazan to Vladivostok. The war boiled with a new force, even more ambitious and bloody, claiming hundreds of thousands of lives.

At the same time, the masters of the West did not want White to win. England, the USA, France and Japan tried to tear off seven skins with gold from white for weapon, ammunition and ammunition. How could rob the captured territory. In a direct clash with the Red Army tried not to join. They demanded that white governments recognize the independence of national suburbs. Huge stocks of weapons, ammunition, various materials, food in Murmansk and Arkhangelsk, which had been prepared in tsarist times, were not in a hurry for the British to give to white, but preferred to plunder, destroy and drown in the sea. Czechoslovakians (who acted on the orders of the Westerners), when it became clear that White was losing, quickly accepted "neutrality" and turned Admiral Kolchak in red. And then quietly evacuated, taking out the loot, including part of Russia's gold reserves. All white leaders complained about the actions of Western "partners". Like, the Western allies betrayed the whites.

Indeed, the The West used whites as cannon fodder in order to increase the intensity of the fratricidal war, to drown Russia and the Russians in blood. When it became clear that White was losing, they were easily thrown. They were no longer needed, and Russian officers and their wives, daughters, again became cannon fodder in various "foreign legions", waiters, taxi drivers, housemaids and prostitutes, adding to the ranks of the servants of the western masters. The fact was that the Masonic (white) government of Russia was completely unnecessary to the owners of the United States. It has already fulfilled its role. Also used as a well-known disposable tool and the White movement, the army. Fevralists, Westerners-masons and whites were used to destroy the old Russia, autocracy, to unleash a civil war, the collapse of the country and exsanguination, exhaustion of the Russian people.

At the same time The ruling clans of the West did not oppose the so-called. "World revolution." In fact, the world revolution was part of the West’s plan to create a “new world order”, globalization under a Western project. They were going to stand at the head of the world revolution and the future Union of Soviet republics of the planet. Marx initially created his idea for these plans. Russia in these plans became a political and resource base, a strategic springboard for the creation of a world Union. In the words of Trotsky (who put these plans into practice): "Russia is a bundle of brushwood to the pyre of the world revolution." Globalization on pseudo-communist rails came to pass at the expense of Russia and the Russian people, and to solve the “Russian question” - to destroy the Russians as the main enemy of the West.

It turned out that humanity was duped by the pseudo-communist ideology of "freedom, equality and fraternity," while real power remained with the largest Western financial clans. All wealth and enterprises were still under the control of the "owners of money", and the workers were under the most severe control. Moreover, the “brain” and financial center turned out to be in the only country where there would be no revolution - in the United States. The United States at the end of World War II, the richest, industrialized. They are followed by investments and technologies. The United States takes in concession from the Soviet republics of the planet the most valuable and important, that is, they control their development. The peoples and countries “overjoyed” by the revolution are simply unable to exist and develop independently - sources of development, capital and technology only from the most developed American power. That is, this is a new kind of Western colonialism, predation and parasitism - Marxism, pseudo-communism, where there is no real social justice, and parasites retain their power.

The picture was perfect. The masters of the West finally created their own world order - slaves remain slaves, but are deceived by the illusion of freedom and equality. The revolutionaries-internationalists, the Trotskyists had to become both the grave-diggers of the Russian civilization (Russia-Russia) and the Russian superethnos, and open the gates to the new world. But this globalization did not take place.

The process is out of control of the West. A brilliantly planned global pseudo-communist globalization operation failed miserably. The Russian people once again showed their unpredictability and insubordination. Stalin and his team of Russian communists, who had their own plan and program, who answered the age-old aspirations of the Russian people about truth, justice and life according to their conscience (genuine people's communism, the life of a commune-community according to conscience), broke the great and cunning plans of the rulers of the West. Russian communists began to build a real communism, a society of social justice, ministry and creation. Stalin and his comrades began to build the Soviet civilization - the civilization of justice, labor and power. The traitors-internationalists, the Trotskyists, the "fifth column" of the West for the most part managed to neutralize. Instrument of Western domination in Russia broke. Stalin restored the borders of the former empire, began to pursue foreign and global policies in the national interest, and not in the interests of the western "partners". As a result, the Soviet Union was able to give humanity an alternative to slave Western society - a brilliant society of the future, the “golden age”.

Thus, Marxism, the idea of ​​“world revolution, internationalism — all this has been brought to Russia from the West in an artificial way. With the help of these means, they wanted to subjugate and destroy Russia, to make it “dung the world’s stories", The basis for creating a new world order - the new system of world domination of the West. However, the Russian communists, who believed in real communism (the ideal society), broke this plan. They created a new Russian (Soviet) empire, a society of social justice, knowledge, labor, service and creation, a society of the “golden age”. Showing thereby a possible happy future for all mankind.

Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1918 year

How to create a volunteer army
How the battle for the Don began
"Your talk is not needed by the working people. The guard is tired!"
100 years of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and Navy
Who incited the Civil War
White fought for the interests of the West
Anti-Russian and anti-state white project
How "Ukrainian Chimera" incited the Civil War
How to create Ukraine and the "Ukrainian people"
How the red took Kiev
Victory of the Red Army on the Don
Bloody Battle of the Ice Campaign
How Kornilov stormed Ekaterinodar
Destined to die? Died with honor!
People against power
How Drozdovtsy broke through on the Don
How drozdovtsy stormed Rostov
Don Republic Ataman Krasnov
273 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. apro
    apro 25 May 2018 05: 27
    +1
    I don’t quite agree. There are no constant enemies or friends in the world. There are partners in the big game. And the roles can change depending on the situation. There are permanent neighbors who can’t be changed. And with whom you need to somehow build relationships. More thoughtfully than with the others.
    The Bolsheviks, by and large, are not a product of the civilization of Russia. It is a Western industrial and scientific ideology. Russian civilization is a mixture of a peasant empire and a Western superstructure that does not reflect the interests of a nation-wide state. A class society that you can take. The burp of feudalism.
    Bolshevism is undoubtedly a Western project aimed at modernizing Russia according to a Western model. There was no other theory in Russia. Peasant communist communism anarchism rejected industrial and scientific progress.
    But the Soviet Communists did not intend to depend on the West. They built the USSR under the conditions of the territory of Russia.
    1. dSK
      dSK 25 May 2018 09: 16
      +2
      Quote: apro
      Russian civilization is a mixture of peasant empire

      The picture was perfect. The masters of the West have finally created their world order - slaves remain slaves, but are deceived by the illusion of freedom and equality.
      Chains and shackles are not worn on the arms and legs, but on the brains.
      1. apro
        apro 25 May 2018 10: 17
        +1
        Quote: dsk
        Chains and shackles are not worn on the arms and legs, but on the brains.

        Justify the opposite. Russia was late in its industrial and humanitarian development. Due to adverse conditions for the production of livelihoods in this territory.
        1. dSK
          dSK 26 May 2018 00: 21
          +2
          Quote: apro
          Justify the opposite

          the hosts of the West acted as the main organizer of February, using Russian Westerners for this - February Freemasons. As Trotsky (putting these plans into practice) said: "Russia is a bundle of brushwood in the bonfire of the world revolution." Globalization on pseudo-communist tracks was supposed to go at the expense of Russia and the Russian people, and solve the "Russian question" - to destroy the Russians as the main enemy of the West.

          "Garry Es Truman, 33rd President of the United States (1945-1953 from the Democratic Party), Baptist, senior freemason (in 1959 he was awarded an honorary award in honor of 50 years of service to the Masonic Order: "If we see that Germany wins the war, we should help Russia, if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and let them kill each other as much as possible " (wikipedia);
        2. Pollux
          Pollux 27 May 2018 19: 45
          0
          Quote: apro
          Justify the opposite. Russia was late in its industrial and humanitarian development. Due to adverse conditions for the production of livelihoods in this territory.

          Yeah, in the West such "humanists" have no place to stamp. In humanitarian development, the West has been and will be outsiders.
          Adverse conditions for the production of livelihoods in this territory have not only weaknesses, but also strengths. If you want more details -
          specify which conditions are negatively affecting.
          1. Chervonny
            Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 48
            +23
            The West and humanism are not compatible things. The Western capitalist system is characterized by the oppression of people, regardless of race and religion.
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 25 May 2018 09: 16
      +8
      That the author and the commentators completely reject the very possibility for a RUSSIAN person to comprehend or create something.
      Doromanovskaya Russia was a very developed state in which there were educational institutions and high-tech industries. Even a unique breed of sheep, ROMANOVSKAYA, was bred. The breed is named after the place where this breed was bred as the royal surname is also taken from the name of the place.
      The accession of the Romanovs cut short the development of RUSI. In the west, managers and advisers began to be hired, while the Romanovs themselves calibrated with the Germans, forcing the best names to be calibrated as well. In an anecdotal manner, this is shown in the film * How Tsar Peter Arapa married *.
      It was under the Romanovs that RUSSIA was placed in a colony of German small formations. So it’s not worth talking about German-RUSSIAN cooperation as about * manna from heaven *.
      In RUSSIA, most of the population for more than two hundred years was a product that * was bred * on a completely scientific basis, trying to produce more * high-quality * goods for sale. After this, one should be surprised at the non-malignancy of the RUSSIANS, not all nobles and their servants were slaughtered, not all priests and monks were shot.
      RUSSIAN refuse even in common sense. It turns out that only from outside the idea can the idea of ​​a change of power arise in the RUSSIAN consciousness.
      1. BAI
        BAI 25 May 2018 10: 08
        +7
        The accession of the Romanovs cut short the development of RUSI

        But precisely under the Romanovs it was:
        1. "In Europe, no gun dared not shoot without our permission."
        2. "Europe can wait for the Russian Tsar to fish."
        Neither before nor after the Romanovs could Russia afford such a thing and cannot.
        1. apro
          apro 25 May 2018 10: 19
          +8
          Quote: BAI
          The accession of the Romanovs cut short the development of RUSI

          But precisely under the Romanovs it was:
          1. "In Europe, no gun dared not shoot without our permission."
          2. "Europe can wait for the Russian Tsar to fish."
          Neither before nor after the Romanovs could Russia afford such a thing and cannot.

          A very controversial statement. Having moved to a new level of development, the Soviet one really became the second world power.
          1. ALEA IACTA EST
            ALEA IACTA EST 25 May 2018 20: 04
            +2
            The USSR was constantly No. 2, constantly reacting, responding, parrying and "catching up and overtaking." Conditions were dictated by the Americans.
            1. Chervonny
              Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 48
              +23
              The USSR was an advanced and progressive country. Modern Western capitalists have taken a lot from the USSR by perverting and introducing them.
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 25 May 2018 11: 51
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          1. "In Europe, no gun dared not shoot without our permission."

          And did we need it?
          Quote: BAI
          2. "Europe can wait for the Russian Tsar to fish."

          Swagger does not adorn even kings.
        3. badens1111
          badens1111 25 May 2018 13: 17
          +7
          Quote: BAI
          Neither before nor after the Romanovs could Russia afford such a thing and cannot.

          Colleague, a highly controversial statement.
          With all equal opportunities, Russia did not have the weight in the world that the USSR had.
          And besides, the Romanov Empire was not able to build a security belt around itself, but the USSR was able, another question, that at the price of betrayal everything is dust and not only the achievements of the USSR, but also the achievements of the imperial period, see territorial losses ..
        4. Pollux
          Pollux 27 May 2018 19: 48
          0
          Quote: BAI
          1. "In Europe, no gun dared not shoot without our permission."

          It is significant that Napoleon was an artilleryman.
          Probably freed European guns from Roman oppression.
      2. zenion
        zenion 25 May 2018 16: 19
        +5
        The author is very reminiscent of one subject of the acquaintance of Joseph Schweik, a professor who claimed that there is another globe inside the globe that is much larger than the outer one. He claims in one place and refutes in another place, that is, inside there is another author, much smarter than the bearer.
        1. TAMBU
          TAMBU 25 May 2018 23: 07
          +1
          Starikov ... the name of this ball inside the ball)
        2. Nick_R
          Nick_R 11 August 2018 23: 22
          -2
          Yeah, I also have a very similar impression. Take at least two quotes:
          In the White Guard and later in post-Soviet liberal and nationalist historiography and journalism a myth was created about Lenin and the Bolsheviks - “German agents”.

          Many revolutionaries were, without a doubt, agents of the secret police. But they were double agents. . . . .
          The relations of the Leninists with the Westerners were of a similar dual nature. 

          That is, according to the author, the opinion of the Bolsheviks as German agents is a myth, but at the same time, he admits that they were agents ... really double.
          In general, Samsonov’s style is recognizable unmistakably from the very first phrases. . .
      3. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 May 2018 19: 56
        +1
        Quote: Vasily50
        RUSSIAN refuse even in common sense. It turns out that only from outside the idea can the idea of ​​a change of power arise in the RUSSIAN consciousness.

        Often the idea of ​​a change of power is precisely the lack of common sense.
      4. Baloo
        Baloo 5 June 2018 20: 43
        0
        Quote: Vasily50
        RUSSIAN refuse even in common sense. It turns out that only from outside the idea can the idea of ​​a change of power arise in the RUSSIAN consciousness.

        A revolutionary situation in itself does not arise. Where the revolutionary terrorists and other modern fraudsters have always been hiding for the last 150 years, in London.
        Sverdlov was preparing sidings for retreat — I mean not only Sverdlov’s famous safe opened in 1937, Sverdlov’s brother had a bank in the United States since 1916. Sverdlov died, and the bank burst.
        Everyone knows about Trotsky. Not for nothing in Europe, no country wanted to shelter him. In the end, Trotsky sold his archive to the library of the US Congress, and he was only allowed to live in Mexico. About the other "Marxists" who sent parcels with brunches to relatives across the river every 2 weeks until Stalin pressed them, the film was shot with Diamonds for the dictatorship of the proletariat ", but they didn’t give names, in vain. little is written about it. So the repressions were not so much against political rivals as they were against Western agents and anointed ones. There were innocent victims, no one can deny this.
  2. rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 25 May 2018 06: 03
    +14
    As Trotsky (putting these plans into practice) said: “Russia is a bundle of brushwood into the bonfire of the world revolution”

    As far as I know, this is a fake. Type of fakes about "Directive 13666" about priests, or about a cook who controls the state.

    Well, the fact that the Bolsheviks are proteges and agents of the West is also crap.
    1. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 25 May 2018 08: 20
      +11
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      Well, the fact that the Bolsheviks are proteges and agents of the West is also crap.

      Yes, yes))) And in Switzerland and other Geneva, the Bolsheviks lived exclusively on the contributions of workers and working in foundries in Germany ....
      1. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 25 May 2018 08: 51
        +11
        Quote: Trapper7
        And in Switzerland and other Geneva, the Bolsheviks lived solely on the contributions of workers and worked in foundries in Germany

        It was different. And they worked, and there were donations, and income from estates, and from the sale of newspapers.
        1. dSK
          dSK 25 May 2018 09: 30
          +6
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          and donations were

          The "bomb" which was laid by the "grandfather" Lenin under Russia, turning provinces in the "republic", (Putin mentioned this last year), it has not been possible to neutralize so far. If, following the Baltic states, Georgia, Ukraine, and Armenia, Kazakhstan and its southern neighbors "tear" both you and me, "it will not seem enough."
          1. dSK
            dSK 25 May 2018 09: 36
            +2
            “Give me the right to issue and control the money of the country– and I will absolutely not care who makes the laws! " - this phrase was uttered Mayer Amschel Rothschild. The plan for world domination was created back in 1773 in the Rothschild shop, where he gathered 13 German bankers and invited them to participate in it. The ultimate goal of this plan was full control over: money, military. education, media. the church. "
          2. rkkasa xnumx
            rkkasa xnumx 25 May 2018 14: 38
            +8
            Lenin, the bomb, will explode ... But nothing else before Lenin, under the tsar-priest, did the bombs break? For example, in Kazakhstan, in 1916. When they tried to attract Kazakhs at least to the rear jobs. And the Kazakhs should not be blamed for the uprising - that blessed RI, they didn’t give up. Gives nothing, only takes away.
            But after Lenin, after the Bolsheviks came to power, the same Kazakhs were quite loyal, and during the war they showed their best side.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 25 May 2018 19: 57
              +1
              Quote: rkkasa 81
              And nothing else before Lenin, under the tsar-priest, bombs were torn?

              Like now? No, it was not.
              1. TAMBU
                TAMBU 25 May 2018 23: 08
                +1
                wow ... and nobody accidentally blew up the tsars in the squares? ... (shhhh ... only to anyone. They were not Bolsheviks)
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 26 May 2018 14: 41
                  0
                  Quote: TAMBU
                  wow ... and the kings accidentally no one blew up in the squares

                  Terrorism and the creation of peoples that never existed are not the same thing. And by the way, they fought terrorism.
              2. Hantengri
                Hantengri 26 May 2018 20: 21
                +2
                Quote: Dart2027
                Like now? No, it was not.

                Well yes! Everything was decorous and noble! Roses were blooming, peasants were getting fat, schoolgirls were blushing! And Alexander ||, purely, he took and killed himself! laughing And Alexander ||| he assassinated himself, from boredom, to see! laughing And Stolypin also killed himself! laughing
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 26 May 2018 22: 55
                  0
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  Well yes! Everything was decorous and noble!

                  Honestly and noble in a better world.
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  And Alexander ||, purely, he took and killed himself

                  That is, the fact that the bomb in the foundation of the USSR was planted by the Bolsheviks themselves does not raise any questions? Like the fact that they divided the Russian people into three?
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 26 May 2018 23: 52
                    +3
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    And Alexander ||, purely, he took and killed himself
                    That is, the fact that the bomb in the foundation of the USSR was planted by the Bolsheviks themselves does not raise any questions?

                    My question is: how did the Bolsheviks manage to control Alexander || and thereby lay the BNBU under the foundation of the USSR? laughing Shiz has completely wiped out your ranks, or is she somewhere in the middle of the process? laughing Huh?
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Like the fact that they divided the Russian people into three?

                    Three what, whom, how? What are you talking about? laughing Maybe you should somehow control and share communication with the "Smart Man" inside wassat , and a real interlocutor outside?
                    PS As far as I understand, have you changed your mind about the presence of "martyrs" bombers in the Republic of Ingushetia?
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 27 May 2018 06: 53
                      0
                      Quote: HanTengri
                      Three what, whom, how? What are you talking about?

                      Kindly show on the map Ukraine, Belarus before they were created by the Bolsheviks. And tell me, who invented the system with the republics with the right to exit?
                      Quote: HanTengri
                      how the Bolsheviks managed to control Alexander || and thereby lay the BNBU under the foundation of the USSR

                      Russian leader Vladimir Putin, during a meeting of the Presidential Council on Science and Education on Thursday, January 21, shared his opinion on the results and ideas of Vladimir Lenin.
                      Thus, in response to a question from Mikhail Kovalchuk, head of the Kurchatov Institute, Vladimir Vladimirovich described the subversive role of the leader of the world proletariat in Russian history. According to our president, the ideas of Ilyich ultimately "led to the collapse of the Soviet Union."
                      “They laid the atomic bomb under the building, which is called Russia, and it exploded later. And we did not need a world revolution ”

                      I understand that in essence there is nothing to argue?
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 27 May 2018 07: 59
                        +3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I understand that in essence there is nothing to argue?

                        Putin’s opinion, like the opinion of any other person who has little knowledge of the issue, does not convince. Moreover, Peskov did excuses, according to the results of this speech, they say, a purely personal opinion ..
                        Say what you wanted, subverter?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And tell me, who invented the system with the republics with the right to exit?

                        Teach History, you will be happy, otherwise at least you count on the head, you will not learn historicity and conditions at that time, in those conditions and in the need to do just that and not otherwise.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 28 May 2018 12: 29
                  +2
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  ....... Roses bloomed, peasants grew fat, high school students flushed! And Alexander ||, purely, he took and killed himself! laughing And Alexander ||| he assassinated himself, from boredom, to see! laughing And Stolypin also killed himself! laughing
                  And you forgot about Pleve! Only until his death did he predict February 1917 with great accuracy!
          3. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 25 May 2018 14: 58
            +5
            Quote: dsk
            The "bomb" which the "grandfather" Lenin planted under Russia, turning the provinces into "republics" (Putin mentioned this last year), has not been able to neutralize so far.

            Actually, it all started before the WFD - during the time of the Empire. In which all the provinces were equal, but some were more equal than others. smile
            For example, there was a completely separate Grand Duchy of Finland from 8 provinces - with its own authorities, finances, army and constitution. It was the Grand Duchy of Poland, whose provinces were governed by a special institution. There was the Caucasus region - also with its own management institution. There were Central Asian possessions and Siberia.
          4. zoolu350
            zoolu350 28 May 2018 11: 36
            +4
            Yes, you’re bull-crunches, already tired of this "bomb." Once again, the structure of the USSR is a brilliant weapon of expansion. And in the period of the marked without a difference was the territorial structure of the USSR. It would disintegrate not along the borders of the union republics, but along the borders of the provinces and there would be not 16 "independent states", but 30-40.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 28 May 2018 19: 57
              0
              Quote: zoolu350
              Once again, the structure of the USSR is a brilliant weapon of expansion.

              And how much has it increased from this expansion? Do not show on the map?
              Quote: zoolu350
              It would disintegrate not along the borders of the Union republics, but along the borders of the provinces

              Yes, but why didn’t it break up along the borders of the regions?
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 28 May 2018 20: 45
                +2
                Quote: Dart2027
                Do not show on the map?

                Geography textbook for grade 5, 1980 to help you.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 28 May 2018 22: 10
                  0
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Geography Textbook for Grade 5, 1980

                  And more specifically?
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 28 May 2018 23: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    more specific?

                    Work hard.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 29 May 2018 19: 39
                      0
                      Quote: badens1111
                      Work hard.

                      That is, you yourself do not know? So how did this ... with the republics promote expansion?
                      1. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 29 May 2018 21: 04
                        +2
                        1940 doesn’t tell you anything? Well, in the Brezhnev era, the story with Bulgaria was, but then the emphasis was on the number of allies in the UN.
              2. zoolu350
                zoolu350 29 May 2018 11: 50
                +1
                Quote: Dart2027
                Yes, but why didn’t it break up along the borders of the regions?

                Are you specially fooling around? Under Tagged, centrifugal processes were headed by the leadership of the Union republics, but after receiving their "inheritance", it began to crush smaller princes already at home. And the more mono-ethnic the republic was, the easier it was to do (Belarus, Turkmenistan, the Baltic states) or not (Georgia, Azerbaijan, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia). And if there were regions instead of republics, then their heads just as well considered themselves as "specific princes" and torn the country into dozens of fragments. The Leninist structure of the USSR not only did not interfere with Stalin, but also helped carry out expansion.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 29 May 2018 19: 40
                  0
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  Are you specially fooling around? Under Tagged, centrifugal processes were headed by the leadership of the Union republics, but after receiving their "inheritance" it began to crush smaller princes already at home. And the more mono-ethnic the republic was, the easier it was to do

                  But what prevented this from being done as part of a single and indivisible into any republic of Russia? The fight against Great Russian chauvinism?
                  1. zoolu350
                    zoolu350 29 May 2018 21: 01
                    +1
                    And how to connect France, Italy and Germany later? The structure of the USSR made it possible to solve this problem.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 30 May 2018 19: 45
                      0
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      And how to connect France, Italy and Germany later?

                      And how to attach it?
                      1. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 3 June 2018 03: 18
                        0
                        The opportunity to join the GDR was, but after 1945. emphasis was placed on the number of UNION COUNTRIES in the UN. In 1922, when the USSR was created, priorities were different.
                  2. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 30 May 2018 00: 24
                    +1
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    But what prevented this from being done as part of a single and indivisible into any republic of Russia? The fight against Great Russian chauvinism?

                    National oppression by tsarism interfered; the national suburbs supported the Bolsheviks because they declared the right of nations to self-determination.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 30 May 2018 19: 47
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      National oppression by tsarism prevented

                      Change tsarism to Russia and you get a ready agitation of the Majlis or fighters for free Ichkeria.
                      That is, again, the struggle against Great Russian chauvinism.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 31 May 2018 02: 40
                        +2
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, again, the struggle against Great Russian chauvinism.

                        But he, like nationalism, has not gone anywhere. At one time, he was the trigger for the destruction of the USSR.
        2. your1970
          your1970 25 May 2018 11: 04
          +2
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Quote: Trapper7
          And in Switzerland and other Geneva, the Bolsheviks lived solely on the contributions of workers and worked in foundries in Germany

          It was different. And they worked, and there were donations, and income from estates, and from the sale of newspapers.
          - and the rich helped like Morozov, and no one canceled the expropriation
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 25 May 2018 12: 01
            0
            Quote: your1970
            - and the rich helped like Morozov

            The Old Believers took an active part in the overthrow of the system that they hated.
    2. unknown
      unknown 25 May 2018 10: 01
      +1
      Lenin himself is a fake. On photo and film materials about Lenin, experts single out eight different people.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 25 May 2018 18: 49
        +2
        Quote: ignoto
        Lenin himself is a fake. On photo and film materials about Lenin, experts single out eight different people.

        Name, specialty and scientific degree of "specialists" is possible? A link to their study would not hurt either.
      2. TAMBU
        TAMBU 25 May 2018 23: 10
        +2
        it’s precisely for this purpose that it’s lying today under glass .... they saw it at the root of his comrade for a hundred years ahead)))
    3. Boris55
      Boris55 25 May 2018 11: 56
      0
      The meaning of what is written on this stupid picture does not apply to citations that have specific references to the original source of the quoted text.
      1. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 25 May 2018 14: 42
        +1
        So you would just take, and give links to - "specific references to the source of the cited text".
        And then you kament, some stupid turned out.
    4. Chervonny
      Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 49
      +22
      Of course, this is a fake spread by the enemies of the Soviet system.
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 25 May 2018 06: 14
    +7
    The fact is that during the first stage of the Civil War (end of 1917 - beginning of 1918) the Bolsheviks and the Red Army won a landslide victory. The rebellions of the Cossacks, the centers of white movement in the Don, Urals, and Siberia were suppressed. Moreover, the Reds took Kiev. Whites and nationalist separatists (in particular, Ukrainian) were defeated. That is, the war could end in little blood. And then the West made its move. Turkey staged a massacre in the Caucasus. Germany began a large-scale intervention, which was partially provoked by US agent Trotsky. This led to the loss of the western part of Russia, including Ukraine-Little Russia, and the defeat of the Reds in Finland. England, the USA, France and Japan also begin the intervention, capturing strategic ports, points of Russia. This led to a new rise in white movement.

    The author gives out the wish for the reality: when the people saw that the Bolsheviks were introducing savagery, then he got up: a terrible famine, a complete collapse of industry after wild reforms, requisition (robbery of everything and everything), etc. - they convinced best of all against the Molsheviks.
    At the same time, the masters of the West didn't want white victory. England, the USA, France and Japan tried to rip off seven skins with gold from white for weapons, ammunition and ammunition. How could they robbed the occupied territories. They tried not to enter into a direct clash with the Red Army.

    Well, the author agreed that the West was completely unnecessary for the United and Indivisible White Russia. And the fact that the fierce epic battles with the French, American interventions were only in the propaganda paper.
    Russian officers and their wives, daughters again became cannon fodder in various "foreign legions", waiters, taxi drivers, maids and prostitutes, joining the ranks of the servants of the Western masters.

    Many millions who died of starvation in 1922, 25, 33, 47 g would dream of being in the place of these "unfortunate" who lived, for the most part, a dignified and happy life.
    Communists, who had their own plan and program, which met the centuries-old aspirations of the Russian people about the truth, justice and living honestly. Russian Communists began to build real communism, a social society justice, ministry and creation. .

    The age-old aspiration of the people was not to starve, but when true communism and service society starvation killed 13,5 million people
    Thus, Marxism, the idea of ​​"world revolution, internationalism - all this was brought to Russia from the West by artificial means.

    This is yes. The same Lenin lived in the West half of his conscious life, Russia, he didn’t know, was only in 6 cities of Russia, while only in London he was 6 times, and traveled all over Europe many times: it’s the same England , France, Switzerland, Italy, A-Hungary, Denmark. Gllandia, Sweden. How did he know Russia?
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 25 May 2018 06: 44
      +20
      Quote: Olgovich
      The author gives out the wish for the reality: when the people saw that the Bolsheviks were introducing savagery, then he got up: a terrible famine, a complete collapse of industry after wild reforms, requisition (robbery of everything and everything), etc., - they convinced best of all against the Yolshviks

      “ostap” suffered ... now state that there was no famine under the tsar, that industry developed at an accelerated pace, that the “Entente” did not commit atrocities, that the Americans in Arkhangelsk did not slaughter the Russians ... come on, weave on ... you are nonsense no worse than Nadezhdin - ("fighting Wikipedia") you carry ... the "historian" Mlyn. tongue
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 25 May 2018 08: 59
        +5
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        now declare that there was no famine under the king, that industry developed at an accelerated pace,


        I don’t want to upset you, but I have to. The last recorded famine in the Republic of Ingushetia is 1891. The growth rate of industry, especially during the war years was also considerable. https://polit-ec.livejournal.com/10400.html
        1. BAI
          BAI 25 May 2018 10: 19
          +12
          I don’t want to upset you, but I have to. The last recorded hunger in RI
          .
          SHARE OF HUNGERS IN THE POPULATION OF CENTRAL RUSSIA
          (without Poland and without Finland) in 1891-1911 years
          HUNGER: 1891 - 25,7% and 1892 - 9,1%. In 1893 - 0,1%, 1894 - 0,5%, 1895 - 1,1%, 1896 - 2,2%,
          1897 - 3,8%, 1898 - 9,7% 1899 - 3,2%, 1900 - 1,5%.

          At the beginning of the XX century, Russia was hungry in Russia: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912 years.
          In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
          In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
          In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
          30 million people were on the brink of death.

          According to various estimates in the years 1901-1912. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”

          One can doubt the concrete figures on the number of deaths from starvation, but one cannot doubt that hunger was a regular and widespread phenomenon in tsarist Russia.

          Publicist doctor, Chairman of the Pirogovsky Society D.N. Zhbankov wrote:
          "Diseases and cases of starvation, ruin and general poverty, mutilation of moral character - robberies, arson, trafficking in children and oneself, suicide and complete physical and spiritual prostration - all this bring crop failures in Russia."

          http://www.domarchive.ru/history/part-1-empire/61
          Yes, and we won’t forget that hunger (even if it was artificially caused, by the way, has no claims to the authors of this famine, but all dogs were let down on the Bolsheviks for the events of 1929, although in the first case the state collapsed, and in the second it resisted ) is one of the motives of the February Revolution.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 25 May 2018 13: 38
            +6
            Quote: BAI
            According to various estimates in the years 1901-1912. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”

            Dull dull FALSE. There are no such numbers nor water scientific work. Even the Soviet propagandists were embarrassed to write this nonsense. You still forgot to mention Stolypin's report on ruined Orthodox souls lol
            Quote: BAI
            Yes, and we won’t forget that hunger (even if it was artificially caused, by the way, has no claims to the authors of this famine, but all dogs were let down on the Bolsheviks for the events of 1929, although in the first case the state collapsed, and in the second it resisted ) - one of the motives February revolution.

            In order not to post nonsense (again stolen from someone), you just need to know that Russia is the ONLY country participating in the war that did not introduce bread cards (only from MARCH 1917)
            PS Your ignorance just rolls over. belay
            1. BAI
              BAI 25 May 2018 16: 46
              +10
              Dull dull FALSE

              And at the beginning of the 20th century with Photoshop they did this:

              and this:

              Photo Caption: Hunger in Siberia. Photogr. snapshots from life taken in Omsk 21 July 1911, a member of the State. Duma Dzjubinsky.
              First photo: Widow family cr. Pukhovoy village, Kurgan. U., V. F. Rukhlova, going "to the crop." In a harness a foal in the second year and two boys on a clothesline. Behind is the eldest son who fell from exhaustion.
              Second photo: Cr. Tobol. lips., Tyukalin. U., Kamyshinsky vol., d. Karaulnoy, M. S. Bazhenov with his family, going "to the crop." Source: ISKRA JOURNAL, THE ELEVENTH YEAR, under the newspaper Russian Word. No. 37, Sunday, September 25, 1911 [http://www.odin-fakt.ru/iskry/_37_jurnala_iskry_
              god1911 /]
              Quote: BAI
              Yes, and we won’t forget that hunger (even if it was artificially caused, by the way, has no claims to the authors of this famine, but all dogs were let down on the Bolsheviks for the events of 1929, although in the first case the state collapsed, and in the second it resisted ) is one of the motives of the February Revolution.

              In order not to post nonsense (again stolen from someone),

              Do you ever learn to distinguish quotes (which stand out by design) from the author's text?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 May 2018 05: 53
                0
                Quote: BAI
                And at the beginning of the 20th century with Photoshop they did this:

                What kind of nonsense?
                NUMBERS You confirm .... with photos ?! fool lol
                You can confirm your nonsense, comrade ignoramus?
                No. Fii. No.
                Quote: BAI
                Do you ever learn to distinguish quotes (which stand out by design) from the author's text?

                Read the rules of VO and the Rules of conduct: when quoting someone, a LINK is given to the author and publication. What's not clear?
                1. BAI
                  BAI 26 May 2018 20: 12
                  +4
                  Since you do not believe in any numbers that do not suit you, you may believe your own eyes. Although unlikely. If you don’t even see the formatting of the text, then even more so.
                  so ignoramus?

                  After I cited the opinion of the doctor of historical sciences that those who are looking for positive in the white movement of ignorance are repeating after me? Are there enough brains for your arguments?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 27 May 2018 06: 18
                    0
                    Quote: BAI
                    Since no numbers that suit you

                    They are not me, they are NOT happy with ANYTHING, these FALSE, not indicated in any scientific work figures.
                    THIRD time I suggest you confirm them. You can not? Then you are completely bankrupt, alas.
                    Quote: BAI
                    After I cited the opinion of the doctor of historical sciences that those who are looking for positive in the white movement of ignorance are repeating after me?

                    For whom I repeat: for you, for the doctor? Learn to state your "thoughts" in Russian lol
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 27 May 2018 08: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Learn to state your "thoughts" in Russian

                      Are you in Russian .. thoughts?
                      Fullness to you, frank falshak, or flood to drive, contrary to the Rules of VO.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 22
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        s and in Russian..thinking?

                        Exactly IN RUSSIAN, unlike you lol .
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Completeness you, frank falshak, to say flood drive, contrary to the Rules of

                        I drive documents, unlike your empty fakes.
                    2. badens1111
                      badens1111 27 May 2018 08: 57
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      They are not me, they are NOT happy with ANYTHING, these FALSE, not indicated in any scientific work figures.

                      You just give false arguments and are engaged in fraud.
                      Well, as proof of this, Zemskov is an authoritative researcher, challenge his conclusions, if you can.
                      V.N. Zemskov. Political repressions in the USSR - Holodomor, Ukraine
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvAhW2OC8Zk
                      At the same time, challenge what he said.
                      In 2014, the book "Stalin and the People: Why There Was No Rebellion" was published (I advise you to read before reaping the clave), in which Viktor Zemskov made several conclusions that completely dispel all your falsification
                      "Aware of the admiration of Russian society for the West, Zemskov advises listening to the conclusions of the American historian Robert Tergston: the system of Stalinist terror in the form in which it was described by previous generations of [Western] scholars never existed; the influence of terror on Soviet society in the Stalin years was not significant; there was no widespread fear of reprisals in the 1930s in the Soviet Union; repressions were limited and did not affect the majority of the Soviet people; Soviet society rather supported the Stalinist regime than was afraid of it; for most people, the Stalinist system provided the opportunity to move up and participate in public life "(P.100)."
                      ““ In fact, a new civilization has formed on the sixth of the globe. It was a unique civilization, the analogues of which were not in the history of mankind either in the past or in the present. ”(P.113)"
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: badens1111
                        You just give false arguments and are engaged in fraud.
                        Well, as proof of this,Zemskov- The most authoritative researcher, challenge his conclusions, if you can.

                        Zemskov wrote about 8 million people who died of starvation in 1901-11 ?! belay fool lol
                      2. badens1111
                        badens1111 27 May 2018 13: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich (Andrey)
                        Zemskov wrote about 8 million people who died of starvation in 1901-11 ?!

                        Do not wag.
                        "" The famine of 1892, exacerbated by the epidemics of cholera, smallpox and typhoid, caused the last acute mortality crisis in the Russian Empire. During such crises, life expectancy dropped to 26-28 years for women and 25 years for men. However, at the beginning of the 1906th century Mortality crises began to weaken. The crop failures of the late 1909th century, 1911, 1910 and 30, as well as the new cholera epidemic in 28, had little effect on life expectancy, which among women did not drop below XNUMX, but among men - below XNUMX years "...
                        A quote is given from the source “Adametz S. Mortality crises in the first half of the XNUMXth century in Russia and Ukraine”:
                        http://www.demoscope.ru/center/popul/popul10.html

                        That is, supposedly, “there wasn’t any special mortality from starvation” ... But the life expectancy under the tsar’s king was 30 (thirty!) Years. One fiction writer spoke very figuratively about this (mathematical calculations are on his conscience):

                        <... Now in one peasant family, roughly speaking, eight children are born, and only three of them become adults ....>; <... in twenty years from child mortality Russia loses one and a half times more population than it has now ...> "

                        And is this Russia that we, or rather you, have lost?
                        The opinion circulated in the press and literature that the famine in the USSR in 1921–22, 1931–32 and 1946–47 was a unique phenomenon unprecedented in pre-Soviet Russia and other countries of the world, and also that it was always or intentionally organized by the Bolsheviks each time, either caused by their supposedly anti-popular policies, is a myth based on a malicious juggling of facts. This was convincingly shown on the basis of a thorough analysis of historical data by Andrei Trubnikov, a member of the “Essence of Time” movement, who made a presentation entitled “Hunger in the USSR: the tragedy or the evil intent of the Bolsheviks?” at the conference "October Revolution: myths and reality"

                        Details: https://regnum.ru/news/2336901.html
                        Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.
                        Ivan Solonevich, an ardent monarchist and anti-Soviet, thus described the situation in the Russian Empire before the Revolution:

                        “The fact of Russia's extreme economic backwardness compared to the rest of the cultural world is beyond any doubt. According to the figures of 1912, per capita national income was: in the USA (USA - P.K.) 720 rubles (in gold pre-war terms), in England - 500, in Germany - 300, in Italy - 230 and in Russia - 110. So, even before the First World War, the average Russian was almost seven times poorer than the average American and more than two times poorer than the average Italian. Even bread - our main wealth - was scarce. If England consumed 24 pounds per capita, Germany - 27 pounds, and the USA - as much as 62 pounds, then Russian bread consumption was only 21,6 pounds, including all this for livestock feed. (Solonevich uses somewhat inflated data - P.K. .) It should be borne in mind that in the diet of Russia bread took such a place as anywhere else in other countries. In rich countries of the world, such as the USA, England, Germany and France, bread was replaced by meat and dairy products and fish - in fresh and canned form ... "https://www.kramola.info/vesti/novosti/golo
                        dv-carskoy-rossii

                        Again wagging, trying to argue with the Historians? Again, otherworldly voices do not give you peace?
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 May 2018 05: 47
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Quote: Olgovich (Andrey)
                        Zemskov wrote about 8 million people who died of starvation in 1901-11 ?!
                        Do not wag.

                        So Zemskov wrote about the pre-revolutionary victims (as you answered) or not? Answer, stop wagging !! lol
                        Quote: badens1111
                        The opinion circulated in the press and literature that the famine in the USSR in 1921–22, 1931–32 and 1946–47 was a unique phenomenon unprecedented in pre-Soviet Russia and other countries of the world, and also that it was always or intentionally organized by the Bolsheviks each time, either caused by their supposedly anti-popular policies, is a myth based on a malicious juggling of facts. This was convincingly shown on the basis of a thorough analysis of historical data by Andrei Trubnikov, a member of the “Essence of Time” movement, who made a presentation entitled “Hunger in the USSR: the tragedy or the evil intent of the Bolsheviks?” at the conference "October Revolution: myths and reality"

                        Of course, he was UNEXPECTED in the world and other countries, nowhere and never had such a thing in the 20th century, especially in Europe.
                        It was NOT specially organized, of course. Glaring illiteracy and inability to govern the country were enough for him.
                        Quote: badens1111
                        In the rich countries of the world, such as the USA, England, Germany and France, bread was replaced by meat and dairy products and fish - in fresh and canned

                        And in the USSR increased production .....potatoes fool -instead meat, milk and bread. In 1937, "wealthy" people ate happily much less, than in the "damned" 1813 Shame .....
                      4. Chervonny
                        Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 51
                        +23
                        He always does this. He never has any facts, except his own words, and cannot be.
        2. naidas
          naidas 25 May 2018 17: 26
          +6
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          The last recorded famine in RI — 1891

          In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
          30 million people were on the brink of death.
          In your opinion, 30 million without food is not hunger.
          Hunger in the Republic of Ingushetia did not disappear. At the beginning of the 1901th century, Russia was hungry in Russia: 1902-1905, 1908-1911, and 1912-XNUMX.
          In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
          In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
          In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
          According to various estimates in 1901-1912 years. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences.
          In short, Stalin with his repressions for 20 years rests.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 26 May 2018 05: 56
            +1
            Quote: naidas
            In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.

            According to various estimates in 1901-1912 about 8 million died from hunger and its consequences. human.

            Mossy FALSE-not a single scientific work -NO these figures.
            1. naidas
              naidas 26 May 2018 06: 46
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              Mossy FALSE

              Well then, these eyewitnesses lie, and you are right:
              Emil D. Dillon, Russian professor; 1877-1914
              A.N. Naumov, Minister of Agriculture in 1915–1916).
              D.N. Svyatopolk-Mirsky
              I. Pykhalov, “Russia We Lost”
              (by the way, a convinced monarchist) Ivan Solonevich
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 55
                +1
                Quote: naidas
                then these eyewitnesses lie, and you are right:
                Emil D. Dillon, Russian professor; 1877-1914
                A.N. Naumov, Minister of Agriculture in 1915–1916).
                D.N. Svyatopolk-Mirsky
                I. Pykhalov, “Russia We Lost”
                (by the way, a convinced monarchist) Ivan Solonevich

                The FALSE figure of 8 million who died of starvation 1901-1917, you can confirm the result? No?
                Why further empty talk?
                1. naidas
                  naidas 26 May 2018 07: 40
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  FALSE figure of 8 million

                  This false figure is the statistics of the Tsar’s Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                  So you’re in the archive, it’s enough for me that several unrelated people quote the same thing. Unlike you, it’s unfounded and didn’t live then. Read the opinion of contemporaries - it’s everyday hunger under the tsar. hungry).
                  Collection of information on Russia for 1884-1885, 1890, 1896, etc., publishing house of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, St. Petersburg, 1887-1897; Statistics of the Russian Empire, 1883-1914, publishing house of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, 1887-19014, 2 volumes.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 26 May 2018 08: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: naidas
                    This false figure is the statistics of the Tsar’s Ministry of Internal Affairs

                    Lying. Bring her in the statistics of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                    Quote: naidas
                    it’s enough for me that several unrelated people quote the same thing.

                    So you and the IAI alone, “unrelated” - printed the same stolen article of someone else twice in a row. lol Which, in turn, does NOT refer to anything. Ay indicator! laughing
                    Quote: naidas
                    . Read the opinion of contemporaries — everyday hunger under the tsar is everyday. (I.e., if a person does not eat up every day, he is not hungry).

                    He is ALIVE and eats better and more than under the 37-year-old already built socialism.
                    Quote: naidas
                    Collection of information on Russia for 1884-1885, 1890, 1896, etc., publishing house of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, St. Petersburg, 1887-1897; Statistics of the Russian Empire, 1883-1914, publishing house of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, 1887-19014, 2 volumes.

                    Read. NO WORDS about 8 million starvation-NO.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 25 May 2018 09: 08
        +7
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        now declare that there was no famine under the king

        Not I will state, but FACTS.
        SUCH NEVER. As has never been cannibalism, corpse eating, as in the "service society"
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        under the king that industry developed by shock pace,

        Yes, one of the highest in the world.
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        that the Entente was not atrocious

        And who did not commit atrocities? But let me remind you that before the Thief, there were NO invaders in sight, as was the GV. . They are a consequence of the thief. Learn the chronology
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        let'sweave further

        You do it better yes
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        you are nonsense no worse than Nadezhdin - ("fighting Wikipedia") are ... "historian" Mlyn

        You refute at least something. But you can’t, you
        Quote: Andrey Yurievich
        tongue
        to my liking lol wink
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 25 May 2018 13: 45
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          Like there never was cannibalism, corpse eating,

          He started his record again. What carrion-cannibalism?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 01
            +1
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            He started his record again. What carrion-cannibalism?

            It’s a shame not to know the history of YOUR Homeland. Open the GARF documents on hunger on the Internet - there are hundreds of documents.
            If laziness, read http://portal.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-u
            ssr / 1932.shtml
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 06: 12
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              If laziness, read http://portal.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-u
              ssr / 1932.shtml

              I looked through it. And where is the carnivore? I did not find something like that.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 May 2018 08: 07
                +1
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                watched. And where is the carnivore? I did not find something like that.

                You are lying that you read.
                http://portal.rusarchives.ru/publication/hunger-u
                ssr / 1933_19.shtml

                or is it
                7 March 1933 city
                TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62, 63, 64.

                Page 1
                According to far from complete data in these areas, the following has been taken into account:
                1742 people swollen from hunger.
                sick from hunger - 898 "
                starved to death - 740 "
                Cases of cannibalism and carcass - 10
                etc. "
                .
                And there are hundreds of such documents.

                Bury your head deeper - not to know.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 08: 31
                  +1
                  Okay. "Notes of the policeman." There is a corpse eating. The restaurant served meat of children, like a goby.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 26 May 2018 08: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    There is a corpse eating.

                    There were single cases, this is actually there, but the attempt of the mournful intellect to elevate these cases to a mass form, this is not just a lie, it is already shaped arrogance and abomination, speculation on the mountain.
                    However, all this, as always, only shows how people become outspoken Russophobes and haters .. single cases are massive, successes are presented as losses, the problem sticks out and any positive information is hushed up. Speculators from the expanse of history ..
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 27 May 2018 07: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: badens1111
                      There were single cases

                      Lie that single. How many DOCUMENTS do you need?
                      Quote: badens1111
                      it’s already shaped arrogance and abomination, speculation on the mountain.
                      However, all this, as always, only shows how humans become frank Russophobes and haters

                      Obvious Russophobes and haters of Russia show a form of arrogance and abomination, not recognizing horrors of the scale of starvation, cannibalism and carnivore in the starving regions and thereby denying the victims of these events even in the right of memory. No shame, no conscience.

                      TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42 .: In the same village it was established that group D ***, remaining after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

                      The cemetery found up to 30 corpses thrown out during the night, part of the corpses bitten by dogs. several coffins were found there, from which the corpses disappeared.

                      In the 3rd brigade, the wife of C *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
                      .


                      -The eating of corpses became widespread ... the facts of theft of corpses brought back but not buried in the cemetery were noted.
                      In the first half of the day, 73 corpses were discovered during a detour. Most of the corpses were hidden in barns, cellars, in attics, in snowdrifts. A significant part of the corpses cut the flesh and limbs

                      Etc.

                      . In the GARF, RSAE, RGASPI, CA FSB of Russia, in the archives of Ukraine, Moldova, Kazakhstan, such documents hundreds and each about a multitude of cases. How much do you need?
                      And remember, chop it with an ax on your nose: this has never happened anywhere in Africa or anywhere else.
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 28 May 2018 00: 14
                        +1
                        This is a terrible truth. I heard a similar story (beginning of the 30s) firsthand from a friend of our family, an elderly artist-decorator. Their mother fed them (sisters) the meat of her younger brother, who died of hunger. And when she realized that they too would die, she threw two senior girls in turn onto the railway platforms of a passing freight train. Strangers sheltered her, and she survived. My sister went missing.
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 26 May 2018 08: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    Okay

                    This was in 1922, 1925, 1933, 1947. You still study the island of the cannibals Nazino on the Ob. I myself when I read it all, my hair stood on end ...
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    "Notes of the policeman." There is a corpse eating. The restaurant served meat of children, like a goby.

                    Yes! lol
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 08: 48
                      +2
                      What, yes, yes? Do you not believe his excellency, General Koshko?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 May 2018 09: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Do you not believe his excellency, General Koshko?

                        I believe, I do not believe ...
                        HOW can you compare the incomparable?
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 May 2018 08: 26
                +1
                Speech at the First All-Union Congress of Collective Farmers 19 February 1933 g gene. party secretary :.
                Peasants became wealthy people.
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 08: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  The peasants became wealthy people.

                  And there was "Life became good, life became more fun." What's wrong? As I read memoirs, where our commanders were on June 21, I am so stunned. Some in the theater were hanging, others in restaurants, and others were dancing with their feet in dance.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 26 May 2018 09: 11
                    +1
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    What's wrong?

                    And the fact that on this day, February 19, 1933, more than 20 thousand "wealthy people" died from hunger, like every other laziness from September 32 to May 33. (State Duma of the Russian Federation-7 million dead from hunger)
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 May 2018 09: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: badens1111
                        The taste of truth is bitter

                        Until you dilute with wine.

                        One liberal historian

                        Once he went crazy.



                        He often of his own free will

                        I changed the words in the documents.

                        And somewhere crossed out the toe,

                        And somewhere he attributed two.



                        But a crash happened in the process,

                        Breaking the familiar comfort--

                        Fake victims of repression

                        They do not let you fall asleep at night.



                        They are in an endless stream

                        Get up from paper graves.

                        And they say harshly cruel:

                        - Why did you kill us?



                        Poor screaming and groaning

                        Trying to hide under the table.

                        But the victims are sixty million

                        And maybe even a hundred.



                        Go and go in a string.

                        A thunderstorm rumbles through the window.

                        And Solzhenitsyn is looking from the shelf,

                        И demons laugh in my eyes.

                        This should be addressed to Kashchenko, but not to VO yes .
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 09: 38
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Statement by the State Duma of the Russian Federation-7 million starvation)

                      State Duma? This is a mad printer which?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 May 2018 09: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        State Duma? This is a mad printer which?

                        This is the highest legislative body in Russia.
                        Who did not want to write this at all. But he was forced under the pressure of the above documents.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 25 May 2018 06: 48
      +9
      Quote: Olgovich
      The centuries-old aspiration of the people was not to starve, and under real communism and a service society, 13,5 million people died of hunger


      and where does this figure come from now? Will you refer to the CSB again?
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 25 May 2018 07: 53
        +9
        Quote: Bar1
        Will you refer to the CSB again?

        Here it seems like you need to change the letter ... From P to ... otherwise you can’t explain the stream of consciousness that others rushes like a dirty mudflow ....
        The information war that is being waged against us sometimes takes on the most bizarre forms, from blood feuds to direct clowning, but everything is united by one substance, outright hatred of everything Soviet, a complete perversion of the history of that period and the output of direct Russophobia.
        On TV, such an example is Amnuel and Sytin for example. Here .. well, you clearly see them ...
        1. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx 25 May 2018 08: 25
          +8
          Quote: badens1111
          outright hatred of everything Soviet, a complete perversion of History

          This is simply due to the fact that the Soviet period in the history of Russia was also filled with hatred of everything "pre-Soviet" with a complete distortion of History. What do you want - a response to the insanity that was in our country.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 25 May 2018 08: 30
            +10
            Quote: Trapper7
            with a complete perversion of History.

            But do not lie.
            Insanity, as you deigned to say, in the country began exactly with the accession of the Sverdlovsk drunkard, and the consequences of this are now observed.
            https://mel.fm/istoriya_obrazovaniya/1740592-hist
            ory
            "In his" History "elegance, simplicity

            Prove to us, without any prejudice,

            The need for autocracy

            And the delights of the whip. ”
            What are you talking about?
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx 25 May 2018 09: 00
              +3
              Quote: badens1111
              Insanity, as you deigned to say, in the country began exactly with the accession of the Sverdlovsk drunkard, and the consequences of this are now observed.

              And before him, as I understand it, the whole story that was taught in the USSR was entirely objective and impartial ....
              Well, you are free to believe in what you like. I will stay my way)
              Sincerely.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 25 May 2018 09: 55
                +4
                Until 1931, yes, they broke a lot of firewood, but unlike modern journalists and other near-scientific silkworms like the now Bandera servant, Prof. Zubov, they learned that history is inextricable, and therefore the textbooks were brought into proper condition.
                Tell me, do you really see the views of Sytiny, Svanidz, Molechins, Radzinsky, Dental and Brewers so close?
                Quote: Trapper7
                Well, you are free to believe in what you like. I will stay my way)
                1. Trapperxnumx
                  Trapperxnumx 25 May 2018 15: 37
                  +3
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Tell me, do you really see the views of Sytiny, Svanidz, Molechins, Radzinsky, Dental and Brewers so close?

                  Not. I do not accept at all and do not deny the presence of a large number of errors and the negativity of the former in the Empire. In the end, the people's discontent had a completely objective form. But not everything was so gloomy and bad, as described in Soviet times. The "Prison of Nations" was not certain. The fact that in 1917 the number of literate recruits already exceeded 80% for some reason no one described. The development of rural medicine, the development of science and industry - it was all ...
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 25 May 2018 16: 21
                    +6
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    The fact that in 1917 the number of literate conscripts already exceeded 80% was for some reason not described.

                    Literacy of the lower ranks, 1912

                    pyhalov
                    June 8th, 2011
                    Yesterday, finally, I looked in the library "Military Statistical Yearbook of the Army for 1912." On p.372-375 there is a table "The composition of the lower ranks in the entire army in 1912, by education, marital status, estate, nationality, religion and occupation before entering the service." Here is its part on literacy (p. 372):
                    Literate, i.e. who can read and write, about half of the entire composition (47,41%), who can only read - 24,09%, the rest are completely illiterate - 28,59% ”(p. 374–375)

                    Thus, in 1912, less than half of the lower ranks of the Russian army were literate (if we count with the Cossacks, then 48%). Another 24% were bashfully called "illiterate", only knowing how to read. Https: //pyhalov.livejournal.com/58131.html
                    I hope you will not argue here, data from the tsarist period.
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    The development of rural medicine, the development of science and industry

                    According to medical data from the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. the average life expectancy among the population of the Russian Empire was 32,3 years (31,3 years for men and 33,4 years for women). At the same time, the corresponding average indicators in Europe were as follows (ascending): in Austria - 38,8, in Germany 42,2, in Italy 43, in England 46, in France 47,4, in Denmark 51,9, in Norway 52,2 years, in Sweden 52,3 years 4. Mortality in Russia was extremely high in all age groups, both in childhood and in working age. Infant mortality was particularly high. Here, for all age groups from 0 to 15 years, Russia ranked first in the world.
                    http://galinaulianova.ru/index.php?option=com_con
                    tent & view = article & id = 75
                    And if we take such an indicator as population mortality, then RI loses in all respects, precisely because of the lack of proper medical infrastructure.
                    Again there is nothing to argue about. Data is absolutely not from the time of the Union, the data are presented by a modern researcher of that period.
                    https://kamrad2213.livejournal.com/488161.html
                  2. TAMBU
                    TAMBU 25 May 2018 23: 02
                    +3
                    the number of competent recruits already exceeded 80% ... WHAT?!))))) Maybe among the lower ranks of officers ... and even that is a bit much, given the number of educational institutions ...
        2. Chervonny
          Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 52
          +24
          All these modern enemies of the people are the heirs of the Vlasovites and the NTS.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 25 May 2018 09: 15
        +4
        Quote: Bar1
        and where does this figure come from now? Will you refer to the CSB again?

        5 million 1923, 7 million 1933, 1,5 million 1947, an unknown number in 1925
        REMEMBER.
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 25 May 2018 09: 24
          +10
          Quote: Olgovich
          Quote: Bar1
          and where does this figure come from now? Will you refer to the CSB again?

          5 million 1923, 7 million 1933, 1,5 million 1947, an unknown number in 1925
          REMEMBER.

          Please, do not show me the gag, but let's give a link to this your number.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 25 May 2018 10: 29
            +4
            Quote: Bar1
            Please, do not show me the gag, but let's give a link to this your number.

            "Myself, Myself! (C) yes You have been given information. STUDY it, look for YOURSELF!

            -According to the estimates of the People’s Commissariat of Health and the Central Statistical Bureau, from 1921 to 1922 million people died of hunger during 5-5,2, according to various estimates. The number of cases with typhus, relapsing, typhoid fever, cholera and smallpox amounted to 5,2 million people. Given the mortality from various diseases, V. Topolyansky estimated that another 500 thousand people died from epidemics. This means that only 5,7 million people died.
            -7 million starvation deaths of 1932-33-Statement of the State Duma of the Russian Federation,
            1,5 million people Famine of 1947 in the USSR // Economic History. Review "/ Under the editorship of L. I. Borodkin. Issue 10. M., 2005. P. 197-199
            -25 year-read OGPU reports ..
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 25 May 2018 12: 56
              +9
              Quote: Olgovich
              According to the estimates of the People's Commissariat of Health and CSB,

              I asked for a link, what is it?

              Quote: Olgovich
              7 million starvation deaths of 1932-33 - Statement of the State Duma of the Russian Federation,


              our thought is a bunch of Russophobes they have no faith, once again a link, again not?

              Quote: Olgovich
              1,5 million people "The Famine of 1947 in the USSR // Economic History. Review" / Ed. L.I. Borodkina. Vol. 10.M., 2005.P. 197-199


              M. Ellman Famine 1947 in the USSR // Economic History. Review / Ed. L.I. Borodkina. Vol. 10. M., 2005. P.197-199 (Page notes).

              In the online version of the publication, the beginning of each page is marked: {page number}.

              197 {}

              November 19 2003 city

              * Michael Ellman - Professor of Economics (University of Amsterdam, Netherlands). Translation from English I.V. Kuznetsova.


              let this Dutchman study hunger in his Holland, he has no faith.
              Quote: Olgovich
              25 year-read OGPU reports ..


              in short, my uncle is still convinced that you are a talker. You didn’t prove the last time that you lived in RI without hunger, and now you’re chatting that your Russophobian will come to your mind. Everything is clear with you.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 25 May 2018 14: 19
                +3
                Quote: Bar1
                I asked for a link, what is it?

                There is no educational program: the number of deaths from starvation of 21-22 years in 5 million people is not disputed by anyone even from comms except you
                Quote: Bar1
                our thought is a bunch of Russophobes they have no faith, once again a link, again not?

                Google help: look for the State Duma Statement
                Quote: Bar1
                let this Dutchman study hunger in his Holland, he has no faith.
                Quote: Olgovich

                Few? There is also WINTER V.F. - HUNGER IN THE USSR 1946-1947. There are collections of documents in Moldova ("Hunger in Moldova (1946-1947). Collection of documents. Chisinau, 1993") and in Ukraine. There is no such collection in Russia yet
                From the collection, memorandum by V.A.Shnyrev, Minister of the Ministry of Technical Cultures and who visited the Kangaz District in early February 1947.
                “On the way from Chadyr-Lunga to Kangaz there were corpses that were not picked up for a long time. The first village I stayed in, Baurchi, is a large settlement - complete silence, people are not visible in the streets and courtyards, porches and walkways are covered with snow.
                The village council informed me of the situation; on the night of the day of my arrival, four terrible facts of murder and cannibalism were revealed. The eating of corpses has become widespread... facts noted theft of corpsesbrought but not buried in the cemetery.

                The village council didn’t have accurate data on the state of the population ... It was proposed to immediately conduct a backyard tour. In the first half of the day, 73 corpses were discovered during a detour. Most of the corpses were hidden in barns, cellars, in attics, in snowdrifts. A significant part of the corpses pulp cut and limbs, this same round made it possible to collect more than 100 orphans who were in cold rooms, without supervision, in a fainting state "
                There are a lot of such documents in the collection.
                Quote: Bar1
                in short, my uncle is still convinced that you are a talker. You didn’t prove it last time that in RI lived without hunger and now, you’re chatting that your Russophobian will come to your head. Everything is clear with you

                Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955 - THIRD TIME I SAY! And he said differently: they ate and dressed in RI better than in the USSR until 1950
                A simple truth will never come into your head that does not know anything: the denial of well-known facts does not remove the facts themselves. Today, the Communists themselves DO NOT deny mass mortality from starvation, they argue only about numbers, but numbers are still millions. Never been to Africa.

                PS prepare better, you know nothing request
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 25 May 2018 14: 33
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  You don't know anything

                  Indeed, you know absolutely nothing.
                  Polyansky Report
                  It is appropriate in this connection to note one more very important circumstance. Referring to the growth figures of collective farmers' incomes, we all the time start from the indicators of 1953 and do not want to recall what kind of earnings they had before the war. But only a conscientious analysis of comparative data allows us to draw the right conclusions. Here are the figures showing the dynamics of the issuance of grain to the collective farmers from the collective farm - their main product.
                  On average, one collective farm yard was issued on a payroll basis:
                  in 1940, 8,2 centners of grain
                  in 1953 7,2
                  in 1959 7,1
                  in 1961 5,8
                  in 1963 3,7
                  So, together with the Khrushchevites and Khrushchev in particular, the problems you created do not bring down others
                  Here are the calculations of the USSR Academy of Sciences. They talk about the growth rate of national income over the past 10 years as follows:
                  Period, years Average annual growth rate
                  national income in%
                  +1950(1953)11,0
                  +1953(1956)12,0
                  +1956(1959)8,9
                  +1959(1962)6,9
                  1962 6,0
                  1963 4,0
                  http://on-island.net/History/1964.htm
                  1. TAMBU
                    TAMBU 25 May 2018 23: 05
                    +3
                    yes ... everything ... like that ... a fall in 61-65 is caused by a change in the course of the country's leadership to cap rails (in fact) ... state farms, monetary reform, catch up and overtake, quality mark .... and for those who has little knowledge on this issue is just a bunch of words)
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You don't know anything

                    Indeed, you know absolutely nothing.
                    Polyansky Report
                    It is appropriate in this connection to note one more very important circumstance. Referring to the growth figures of collective farmers' incomes, we all the time start from the indicators of 1953 and do not want to recall what kind of earnings they had before the war. But only a conscientious analysis of comparative data allows us to draw the right conclusions. Here are the figures showing the dynamics of the issuance of grain to the collective farmers from the collective farm - their main product.
                    On average, one collective farm yard was issued on a payroll basis:
                    in 1940, 8,2 centners of grain
                    in 1953 7,2
                    in 1959 7,1
                    in 1961 5,8
                    in 1963 3,7
                    So, together with the Khrushchevites and Khrushchev in particular, the problems you created do not bring down others
                    Here are the calculations of the USSR Academy of Sciences. They talk about the growth rate of national income over the past 10 years as follows:
                    Period, years Average annual growth rate
                    national income in%
                    +1950(1953)11,0
                    +1953(1956)12,0
                    +1956(1959)8,9
                    +1959(1962)6,9
                    1962 6,0
                    1963 4,0
                    http://on-island.net/History/1964.htm


                    You will deny the report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR of 1955, there is a comparison on bread, meat and milk since 1913. The system that caught up, which only 40 years later was able to catch up with 1913 for the consumption of food and food, is beyond ...
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 27 May 2018 08: 14
                      +1
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      it's beyond ...

                      Your primitive lie, yes, beyond
                      SHARE OF HUNGERS IN THE POPULATION OF CENTRAL RUSSIA
                      (without Poland and without Finland) in 1891-1911 years
                      HUNGER: 1891 - 25,7% and 1892 - 9,1%. In 1893 - 0,1%, 1894 - 0,5%, 1895 - 1,1%, 1896 - 2,2%,
                      1897 - 3,8%, 1898 - 9,7% 1899 - 3,2%, 1900 - 1,5%.
                      At the beginning of the XX century, Russia was hungry in Russia: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912 years.
                      In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
                      In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
                      In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
                      30 million people were on the brink of death.
                      http://www.domarchive.ru/history/part-1-empire/61
                      According to various estimates in the years 1901-1912. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”
                      At the expense of "other people's articles", you would be silent, all your texts are entirely based on the opuses of Western liars and their local assistants, upon closer examination, it turns out to be the opuses, lies, dirt and forgeries that really took place.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: badens1111
                        According to various estimates in 1901-1912 years. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences.

                        You have written this rubbish, not mentioned by anyone even in the USSR today, just like THREE other commentators.
                      2. badens1111
                        badens1111 27 May 2018 22: 46
                        +2
                        Quote: Olgovich (Andrey)
                        crap already WRITTEN

                        Yes, the whole thread of discussion is contaminated with the nonsense that you are carrying here.
                        The word COMMENTATOR, as it is written, but not this .... apparently from the abuse of something
                        Quote: Olgovich (Andrey)
                        the commentator.
                      3. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 28 May 2018 03: 49
                        +2
                        Quote: badens1111
                        According to various estimates in the years 1901-1912. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”
                        At the expense of "other people's articles", you would be silent, all your texts are entirely based on the opuses of Western liars and their local assistants, upon closer examination, it turns out to be the opuses, lies, dirt and forgeries that really took place.
                        Not only me, but also others, including commentator Vasilenko, cited both the years and the figures of the Famine. I quoted great contemporaries of those events. L.N. Tolstoy wrote HUNGER. However, Olgovich didn’t see and read all this, although many comments were addressed to him
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 May 2018 09: 12
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Yes, the entire discussion thread is filthy with the nonsense that you are talking about here.

                        You already TWICE TIMES copied the same nonsense in one article (about 8 million dead).
                        This is normal? fool
                        What's wrong with you? recourse
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 25 May 2018 14: 11
              +6
              Quote: Olgovich
              - Statement of the State Duma of the Russian Federation,

              Gee-gee ... Can’t you come up with anything better?
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 25 May 2018 16: 22
                +5
                The CIA is frantically updating a training manual ....
                1. dSK
                  dSK 25 May 2018 19: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: badens1111
                  feverishly

                  Gentlemen, former "nomenclature" workers yearn for feeding trough, on party contributions live tight.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 25 May 2018 20: 32
                    +5
                    Quote: dsk
                    Former gentlemen

                    You didn’t become real either, so it’s just one appearance ... but the habits and the score of rumors, gossip, everything is the same .. change the methodology, almost 30 years have passed, you tell everything about some kind of fable nomenclature ..
                    1. dSK
                      dSK 25 May 2018 23: 43
                      +2
                      Quote: badens1111
                      The score of rumors, gossip, is the same.
                      She is 2000 years old - the gospel is called. How many empires have changed for this, there is no political party and no conversation. And hundreds of millions of people read it every day. In the USSR they practically did not publish it - they forced it to study the compilation - "Code of the Builder of Communism", but the fake did not take root. Objective reality: modern communists lose the confidence of the people - in 2012 your representative scored 19% votes in 2018 only 12% in spite of the fact that he assembled a block of various partners, right up to NCO-oshnyh “heaped up” and did not help.
                      But you still have a chance - “I have always strictly adhered to and adhere to the Constitution of the Russian Federation. The Constitution clearly states: no more than two terms in a row. And now I have a second term. I intend to adhere to this rule in the future.” - Vladimir Putin. (TC Star 19:24, 25/05/18)
                2. Chervonny
                  Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 54
                  +22
                  It is more likely not the CIA but the NTS that updates the manual ...
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 07
                +2
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                Gy-gy.

                And why not uh? lol
            3. naidas
              naidas 25 May 2018 20: 54
              +4
              And what would you do in place of the Bolsheviks-the Bolsheviks sold gold to feed people, turned to the international community.
              Written on November 7, 1921
              First published in 1933.
              in Lenin's collection XXIII

              Manuscript printed
              12
              L. B. KAMENEVU 10
              Secretly

              Comrade Kamenev!

              In my opinion, Chicherin is wrong. It is a condition that bread should go only to our starving peasants; I have to agree. We in SNK 5 / XI decided to give gold only for 9 million pounds (33 - 15 = 18. 18: 2 = 9 11). We must help in every way, at least for the English trash.

              And we will stipulate security conditionally.

              7 / xi. Lenin
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 09
                +2
                Quote: naidas
                And what would you do in the place of the Bolsheviks-

                Do not go where ANYTHING is understood, in the economy, power, government of the country.
                1. naidas
                  naidas 26 May 2018 06: 47
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Do not climb there

                  Are you talking about Lenin or your opinion?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: naidas
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Do not climb there

                    It Are you talking about Lenin or your opinion?

                    What? belay
                    You yourself-Do not remember already:
                    Quote: naidas
                    And what would you did in place of the Bolsheviks
                    ?
    3. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 25 May 2018 19: 46
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      The centuries-old aspiration of the people was not to starve, and under real communism and a service society, 13,5 million people died of hunger


      Once again, the Olgovichi are exaggerating the old myths about the famine in the USSR, not taking into account the circumstances in which these tragic events took place.
      Let us compare the circumstances of the famine in Tsarist Russia and the USSR.
      According to the first all-Russian population census of 1897, 129 million people lived in Russia. 40-45 million women then gave birth to 10-12 children, therefore, after 25-30 years, the population should have increased to 400 million. But in 1913 there were only 166 million people in Russia.
      Where have 220-230 million people gone?
      And here where - we read in the fifth volume on page 297 PSS V.I. Lenin's "... the extinction of the Russian peasantry is proceeding with astonishing speed ..." and further V.I. Lenin gives a list of official Russian documents on which he draws on his conclusions.
      The all-Russian famine of 1891 swept 40 million people, of whom more than 2 million died, in the famine of 1900-1901. 42 million people were affected, 3 million died. In 1911, after the Stolypin reform, 30 million people went hungry, and 2 million died.
      In total, over 100 million children died during the reign of the last Romanov. according to official statistics, of the 6-7 million children born annually, 5% did not live up to 43 years of age.
      And since 1880, 158 million children have died, and if you count along with the adult population, this figure will increase to 176 million, and these numbers can not be compared with those victims in whom our note falsifiers accuse I.V. Stalin and the Communists.
      By 1930, Soviet power had reduced child mortality by five.
      In addition, it should be noted that in tsarist times the famine was not due to wars and revolutions, unlike the USSR, where the famine of 1921 broke out where the fighting took place the day before, famine of 1933 is a class struggle in the countryside (war of the kulaks against collective farms, slaughtered cattle, sowed less), the famine of 1947 occurred in a country devastated by war, plus a crop failure.
      But everything was done in the USSR to help the population, to neutralize hunger, while in tsarist Russia hundreds of thousands of Russian rich people struck Europe with their motivation, but there was never any money for health care and help for the starving under the tsar.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 25 May 2018 23: 31
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Green
        40-45 million women then gave birth to 10-12 children

        Truth? The number of women aged 20 to 40 years was about 20 million, that is, half as much. In addition, not everyone gave birth to so much.
        http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/rus_age_97.php
        Quote: Alexander Green
        The all-Russian famine of 1891 swept 40 million people, of whom more than 2 million died

        In fact, millions are all dead, regardless of cause. There was indeed an increased mortality, but it is explained by the outbreak of an epidemic, but there were practically no recorded deaths from starvation.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        In addition, it should be noted that in tsarist times the famine was not due to wars and revolutions

        and was caused by completely natural causes, in particular drought.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        By 1930, Soviet power had reduced child mortality by five.

        Cut it. But the birth rate has also decreased. As a matter of fact, no matter how cynical it sounds, but the higher the birth rate, the higher the infant mortality rate. In Europe, by that time, 10-12 children were no longer giving birth, so their care was at a much better level.
        Quote: Alexander Green
        but there was never any money for health care and for helping the starving under the king

        It was not very good with health care, but the starving people were helped.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 01: 54
          +3
          Quote: Dart2027
          Truth? The number of women aged 20 to 40 years was about 20 million, that is, half as much. In addition, not everyone gave birth to so much.

          Well, you and the bookkeeper. And what, women under 20 and over 40 did not give birth? My cousin, for example, gave birth to 17 children, the last at 55 years old, only three survived. My grandmother was already a city dweller, had 9 children, and in the villages this was the norm. So explain where the children went.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 26 May 2018 07: 11
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Green
            And what, women under 20 and over 40 did not give birth?

            The most favorable age is from 20 to 40 years. There are births earlier and later, but mostly give birth at this time.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            My grandmother already had a city dweller 9 children

            This also happened, but in general in cities they gave birth less than in villages.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            So explain where the children went.

            Quote: Dart2027
            Actually, no matter how cynical it sounds, but the higher the birth rate, the higher the child mortality rate. In Europe, by that time, 10-12 children were no longer giving birth, so their care was at a much better level.

            If you now begin to give birth to 10-12 children, then mortality will also increase significantly, despite the modern development of medicine.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 12: 09
              +3
              Quote: Dart2027
              The most favorable age is from 20 to 40 years. There are births earlier and later, but mostly give birth at this time.

              So what about the rest of the born children? In your "silver" century, every year, 3-4 million people died in production, in hard labor, from injuries, fires, poisoning and malnutrition. In total, at least 1880-1916 million people were missing in Russia during the period 300-400.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 26 May 2018 13: 27
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Green
                In total, at least 1880-1916 million people were missing in Russia during the period 300-400.

                If you follow this logic, it turns out that Mendeleev’s calculations on the growth of numbers should not only be performed, but also overfulfilled. Tell me where the USSR affairs of a billion Russian?
                Quote: Alexander Green
                3–4 million people died annually in production, in hard labor, from injuries, fires, poisoning and malnutrition

                Horses mixed up in a heap, people ... And what were the most innocent in hard labor? Was the king to blame for the fires? injuries received how? And where are these numbers coming from?
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 15: 57
                  +4
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  If you follow this logic, it turns out that Mendeleev’s calculations on the growth of numbers should not only be performed, but also overfulfilled.

                  This is not my logic, this is yours, Solzhenitsyn first applied it, then, in my opinion, Zhores Medvedev or Yakovlev, and your brethren use this logic throughout the existence of the VO forum, I only showed you that you should pay attention to the historical time interval. Where did 300-400 million people go?
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Horses mixed up in a heap, people ... And what were the most innocent in hard labor? Was the king to blame for the fires? injuries received how? And where are these numbers coming from?

                  And what, repressed in 20-40 were also all innocent? And what, is Stalin to blame for the poor harvest of 1947? And the numbers are all from the same place where you and Olga take.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 26 May 2018 20: 03
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    This is not my logic, this is yours

                    My? And where did I use it?
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    And what, repressed in 20-40 were also all innocent?

                    Why? That is, there were those who simply fell under the distribution, but in most cases they didn’t. Only you did not answer where your numbers come from?
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 23: 00
                      +3
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      My? And where did I use it?

                      And I do not separate you from your fraternity
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      This is not my logic, this is yours, Solzhenitsyn first applied it, then, in my opinion, Zhores Medvedev or Yakovlev, but your brethren use this logic throughout the existence of the VO forum,

                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Only you did not answer where your numbers come from?

                      Ask Olgievich, he is ashamed of me for stealing other people's texts, which means he knows where.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      When you STEAL other people's texts, it’s not a shame, comrade communist?
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 27 May 2018 06: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        And I do not separate you from your fraternity

                        That is nowhere? You really answer a specific person.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Ask Olgievich, he is ashamed of me for stealing other people's texts, which means he knows where.

                        That is, from the head?
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 27 May 2018 19: 56
                        +3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Ask Olgievich, he is ashamed of me for stealing other people's texts, which means he knows where.
                        That is, from the head?

                        I said ask Olgievich. he again accuses me of stealing other people's articles.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        PS again stole other people's articles. Not ashamed?

                        You have a logical contradiction. If I steal other people's articles (the accusation of Olgievich), then it cannot be said that I came up with numbers from my head (the accusations of Darth).
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 32
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                3–4 million people died annually in production, in hard labor, from injuries, fires, poisoning and malnutrition

                Lying, as always.
                PS again stole other people's articles. Not ashamed?
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 28 May 2018 10: 00
                  +1
                  Are you again otherworldly voices, both literally and figuratively, tormenting you?
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 26 May 2018 06: 17
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        According to the first all-Russian population census of 1897, 129 million people lived in Russia. 40-45 million women then gave birth to 10-12 children, therefore, after 25-30 years, the population should have increased to 400 million. But in 1913 there were only 166 million people in Russia.
        Where have 220-230 million people gone?
        And here where - we read in the fifth volume on page 297 PSS V.I. Lenin's "... the extinction of the Russian peasantry is proceeding with astonishing speed ..." and further V.I. Lenin gives a list of official Russian documents on which he draws on his conclusions.
        The all-Russian famine of 1891 swept 40 million people, of which over 2 million died, during the famine of 1900-1901 42 million people were affected, 3 million died. In 1911, after the Stolypin reform, 30 million people went hungry, and 2 million died.
        In total, over 100 million children died during the reign of the last Romanov. according to official statistics, out of 6-7 million children born annually, 5% of children under the age of 43 did not survive

        When you STEAL other people's texts, it’s not a shame, comrade communist?
        It’s ridiculous to refer to the pathological liar and ignoramus of Ulyanov: in the hunger of 1891, the Yenshiee and that significant part about epidemics died 5 times.
        Then there were NOT starvation deaths in Russia.
        But when building society from hunger, died in the middle of the 20th century over 10 million people, there was cannibalism and trkpoyedstvo (never in Russia who had never been at any time) and the island of cannibals NAZINO.
        This is not only in Europe, but also in Africa and Asia.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 12: 28
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          To refer to a pathological liar and an ignoramus of Ulyanov is generally ridiculous:

          In my work I use the method of "propaganda in contrasts", a very effective method. For example, I’m telling you, some regular crazy joke about Stalin, expressed by some local “olgovich”, and I ask the audience: Who knows the name? - Surely no one.
          Then I read Churchill's famous words about Stalin and ask the question: Do everyone know Churchill? - Everyone knows that. And I help the audience to conclude: What does the pygmy say about the great man, and what does the titan say.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 27 May 2018 08: 12
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            In my work I use the method of "propaganda in contrasts", a very effective method. For example, I’m telling you, some regular crazy joke about Stalin, expressed by some local “olgovich”, and I ask the audience: Who knows the name? - Surely no one.
            Then I read Churchill's famous words about Stalin and ask the question: Do everyone know Churchill? - Everyone knows that. And I help the audience to conclude: What does the pygmy say about the great man, and what does the titan say.

            Instead of proof of your FALSE figures, you give chatter .. Alas for you!
            By the way, recall Churchill's words about Stalin lol
            PS Once again I remind you: to steal is a sin. Even articles
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 27 May 2018 08: 20
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              Once again I remind

              I remind you.
              In Russia today there are about 270 thousand "presidents of Political Science Centers", more than one million heads of "Economic Academies" and about 2,3 million "directors of Analytical Institutions", this is not counting the "experts" of the former and the sages, who are different from near and far abroad - blind men groping an elephant ...
              And you just have to tor. Listen to literate people, which, you, do not belong to at all. A compiler and manipulator, alien ideologues, alien meanings. In general, there are not many simple liars.
              To whom it is interesting to look.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dvo9f5flRc
              Churchill: “Khrushchev is the only politician in the history of mankind who declared war on the dead. But not only that, he managed to lose it. ”You will lose too.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf7tE6mn03E
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 37
                0
                Quote: badens1111
                I remind you.
                В

                Are you green Are you upset already? lol
                Quote: badens1111
                In Russia today there are about 270 thousand "presidents of Political Science Centers", more than one million heads of "Economic Academies" and about 2,3 million "directors of Analytical Institutions", this is not counting the "experts" of the former and other countries who are different from near and far abroad.

                What kind of meaningless flood?
                What's wrong with you?
                Articles about what? fool
            2. Pollux
              Pollux 27 May 2018 20: 02
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              By the way, recall Churchill's words about Stalin

              And you didn’t think about why the Church would praise your ideological adversary, the enemy.
        2. badens1111
          badens1111 26 May 2018 12: 38
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Then there were NOT starvation deaths in Russia.

          Yeah, jelly rivers and gingerbread banks ... but where did 8 million go?
          "
          SHARE OF HUNGERS IN THE POPULATION OF CENTRAL RUSSIA
          (without Poland and without Finland) in 1891-1911 years
          HUNGER: 1891 - 25,7% and 1892 - 9,1%. In 1893 - 0,1%, 1894 - 0,5%, 1895 - 1,1%, 1896 - 2,2%,
          1897 - 3,8%, 1898 - 9,7% 1899 - 3,2%, 1900 - 1,5%.

          At the beginning of the XX century, Russia was hungry in Russia: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912 years.
          In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
          In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
          In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
          30 million people were on the brink of death.
          http://www.domarchive.ru/history/part-1-empire/61
          According to various estimates in the years 1901-1912. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”
          At the expense of "other people's articles", you would be silent, all your texts are entirely based on the opuses of Western liars and their local assistants, upon closer examination, it turns out to be the opuses, lies, dirt and forgeries that really took place.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 27 May 2018 08: 10
            0
            Quote: badens1111
            According to various estimates in 1901-1912 years. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences.

            You are the THIRD who writes this nonsense today .... in one article lol laughing
            And no one could confirm it with SCIENTIFIC data.
            Cut it on the nose: even in the USSR NOBODY knew such a figure.
            Quote: badens1111
            At the expense of "other people's articles", you would be silent, all your texts are entirely based on the opuses of Western liars and their local assistants, upon closer examination, it turns out to be the opuses, lies, dirt and forgeries that really took place.

            lol
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 27 May 2018 08: 30
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              Hack on the nose

              The substantive side of the Holodomor issue is very simple. In 1932–33, crop failures and the desire of the Soviet government to accelerate industrialization coincided. A natural cataclysm overlapped with the mistakes of the authorities and led to tragic consequences. There was no “genocide of Ukrainians”. Even on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR, most of the dead were Russian. Not to mention the fact that they were dying both in the Volga region and in Kazakhstan. The number of victims in the territory of the Ukrainian SSR is overestimated by professional Ukrainians several times.

              Details: https://regnum.ru/news/2349357.html
              Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to REGNUM.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 27 May 2018 08: 31
                +1
                Olgovich-Are you a “professional Ukrainian”? That is, a deliberate misinformer?
                “Mamo, but you know, at the 33rd kats.api they drove away
                whole grain from Ukraine і 10 mіlіyonіv ukraintsev died ", -
                explained to mother’s daughter upon returning home
                after another lesson in history. "
                Berdnik Miroslava. The Holodomor as an element of “national heritage”, January 2006
                View in full: http://politrussia.com/istoriya/mify-o-staline-20
                3/
                “To recognize hunger as a fact of genocide against some people is wrong and unfair. It was a general tragedy of the peoples, states of the USSR.
                Today we know that there was holo.do.mor in Ukraine, and in Russia, and in the Stavropol and Krasnodar Territories, in the Volga Region, in Belarus, in Kazakhstan ”
                On April 28, 2010, PACE refused to recognize “Gołod.omor” as the geochemist of the Ukrainian people.
                View in full: http://politrussia.com/istoriya/mify-o-staline-20
                3/
                So better keep quiet, for all your writings are nothing more than falsifications.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 46
                  0
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Olgovich-Are you a “professional Ukrainian”? That is, a deliberate misinformer?

                  I am a commentator like you.
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Recognize hunger as a fact of genocide against some people wrong and unfair. It was common tragedy of peoples States included in the USSR.

                  Quite rightly stated. This has been talked about many times. leaders of Russia
                  Quote: badens1111
                  On April 28, 2010, PACE refused to recognize “Gołod.omor” as the geochemist of the Ukrainian people.

                  Absolutely correctly did PACE.
                  Quote: badens1111
                  So better keep quiet, for all your writings are nothing more than falsifications.

                  belay lol
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 27 May 2018 09: 55
                    +2
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    I am a commentator like you.

                    You are a forger.
                    And I have much more faith, for example, to people like a politician, the hero of socialist labor Pyotr Romanov, than misinformers like you.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxgIQpaxZuU
                    So better keep quiet, for all your writings are nothing more than falsifications.
                2. Chervonny
                  Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 55
                  +23
                  He's just an enemy of the people. CIA resident. Otherwise, his delirium cannot be assessed.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 27 May 2018 09: 40
                0
                Quote: badens1111
                The substantive side of the Holodomor issue is very simple. In 1932–33, crop failures and the desire of the Soviet government to accelerate industrialization coincided. Natural disaster overlapped with the mistakes of the authorities and led to tragic consequences

                I repeat the question: WHAT is the matter with you, t.? request
                With this passage you are responsible for .... your figures about the famine of 1901-1911? fool
                Quote: badens1111
                No There was no “genocide of Ukrainians”. Even in the territory of the Ukrainian SSR, most of the dead were Russian. Not to mention the fact that they were dying both in the Volga region and in Kazakhstan. The figure of the dead on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR overpriced professional Ukrainians several times.

                I agree with that on 100% and he talked about it a thousand times.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 27 May 2018 09: 56
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  I talked about it a thousand times.

                  You brought a hoax a thousand times for cases of famine and its causes.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 27 May 2018 11: 57
                    0
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    I talked about it a thousand times.

                    You brought a fake a thousand times in cases of hunger and its causes.

                    You are telling a lie.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 27 May 2018 12: 11
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You are telling a lie.

                      You about yourself? Continue to carry to the masses lies and falsification.
                      You have nothing to say against scientists.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhTyMQdRXAk
                      Read "The mythology of the Holodomor", then stop lying.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxDTxFqsP8o&f
                      eature = youtu.be
                      Everyone, except for patented disinfectants and guests from the Maidan who are interested in the topic, is strongly recommended to go here: http://istmat.info/node/32514 and read the internal documentation of the authorities on the issue of hunger, the fight against hunger, attempts to prevent it, etc. . Something is beating with Elena Anatolyevna, something is not, but these are documents not intended for publication or propaganda. This is a materiel.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUvWmZx8tQg

                      Behind you, unlike learned historians, there is nothing besides Conquist falshaki, Goebbels and other turbidity.
                      Scribble complaint once again that they offended you ..
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 May 2018 05: 58
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Are you about yourself?

                        LEARN personal place names. HOW MUCH can I ask this question if I write YOU? fool
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Behind you, unlike learned historians, there is nothing besides Conquist falshaki, Goebbels and other turbidity.

                        Empty chatter. Every now and again.
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Scribble complaint once again that they offended you ..

                        I do not write in principle. But it will not hurt you to look in the mirror, I have no doubt.
  4. Curious
    Curious 25 May 2018 07: 41
    +14
    The article is another illustration of what can be done with the help of Google, a lively imagination and the desire for three meals a day.
    But the author is still far from Paul Heller, who discovered 22 species of aliens on Earth who rule the world. It can be seen for the final flowering of creative potential in this genre, senility is also needed.
  5. Alexander Trebuntsev
    Alexander Trebuntsev 25 May 2018 07: 47
    +9
    That's how everyone juggles the facts for his own sake, selectively taking individual fragments of the story “out of context”. Taking these very facts, we can compose a similar article where Germans can be expelled as supporting Bolsheviks. However, previously it was done. Over the ears drawn facts. At least about the Turks. The West wanted to divide Turkey and create a larger Armenia. These "Young Turks" saved Turkey and restored their possessions in Transcaucasia, simultaneously defeating the Western-backed armed forces in Syria. Yes, the article has a lot of similarities. The West, as always, helped only itself. Solving a problem, he poorly represents the consequences of his decision. Apparently, banal capitalist greed.
  6. bober1982
    bober1982 25 May 2018 08: 05
    +2
    Confusedly somehow the author succeeds.
    In my opinion, the unsuccessful Februaryists from the Bolshevik-Leninists (the author, for some reason, included Trotsky and Sverdlov among them) were not much different from each other, their tasks were the same.
    The change of one group of people (Februaryists), to another (Bolshevik-Trotskyists) took place for the reason that it was necessary to radically accelerate the process of destruction of the Orthodox kingdom, the Februaryists were not capable of it. The Bolsheviks, or rather Trotskyists, were ideally suited - they were capable of bloody massacre. These comrades and brought, the evil masters of the backstage, into the arena.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 25 May 2018 16: 09
      +1
      Quote: bober1982
      Bolshevik-Leninists (for some reason, the author also included Trotsky and Sverdlov among them)

      Probably because after Lenin said that there was such a party, its number grew to incredible sizes, thanks to the Trotskyists, who clung to the Bolsheviks, that today, being in power today, they are allowed to blame all the responsibility for the genocide of the Russian people-on the Bolsheviks.
      Quote: bober1982
      that it was necessary to radically accelerate the process of destruction of the Orthodox kingdom

      The Old Believers took an active part in this without any party tickets. The people did not accept the pro-Western Nikonian church, today referred to as the Russian Orthodox Church. Churches smashed the people. The fruits of this pogrom were actively used by the communist Trotskyists.
  7. andrewkor
    andrewkor 25 May 2018 08: 25
    +5
    Yesterday’s fans will start working at full power, wait, sir !!
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 25 May 2018 13: 19
      +2
      Quote: andrewkor
      Yesterday's fans will start working

      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Another attack on the same fan

      Pancake specialists, for fans lol If you don’t like these topics, why go into them and leave your meaningless comments?
      Or, if you already went in, did a favor (spaaasiba big hi ), then they would show us their remarkable knowledge of history. Together would have laughed.
  8. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 25 May 2018 08: 46
    +9
    The article is a fat minus for outright lies and myth-making. Gentlemen, if anyone has a connection with Mr. Samsonov, please give him a good history textbook so that he finally reads about the number of wars of the Western countries with each other and about the trade wars of the USA and England in the 20s. Maybe at last he will understand that there are no “masters of the West”, but there are sovereign countries with their own interests, and sometimes quite contradictory ones?
    Yes, and a volume of Ulyanov’s works would also be good for him to read. Especially in the part where Ilyich discusses the “world revolution” and the “Zemshar Republic of Soviets”. Then he will understand that there were no “Trotskyist internationalists” among the Bolshevik terrorists, but, on the contrary, “Marxism-Leninism” itself was aimed precisely at the mirage of the “world revolution”.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 25 May 2018 09: 48
      +6
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      on the contrary, “Marxism-Leninism” itself was aimed precisely at the mirage of the “world revolution”.

      You're right. Please note how the author carefully avoids mentioning the name of Ulyanov in the article, for he does not fit into his concept of evil international communists and Russian communists. lol
      Under him, the evil internationalists flourished, and for the Russian Communists he was the banner too.
      So the bundle does not bind. lol
  9. BAI
    BAI 25 May 2018 10: 00
    +3
    Before this phrase, everything was fine
    the world revolution was part of the plan of the masters of the West to create a "new world order",
  10. Anatoly83
    Anatoly83 25 May 2018 10: 38
    +7

    But precisely under the Romanovs it was:
    1. "In Europe, no gun dared not shoot without our permission."
    2. "Europe can wait for the Russian Tsar to fish."
    Neither before nor after the Romanovs Russia could not afford such a thing and cannot. [/ Quote]
    especially in the Crimean war the guns of the Europeans did not shoot
    1. BAI
      BAI 25 May 2018 11: 01
      0
      And I did not say that this was the whole period of rule, this is the peak of the power of the Republic of Ingushetia, m. short enough, but he was.
  11. Weyland
    Weyland 25 May 2018 10: 44
    +3
    However, this is an extreme simplification - to consider the Bolsheviks as agents and puppets of German imperialism and the West as a whole. In the relations between the Bolsheviks and the West, the same tendency is observed as in the relations of the pre-revolutionary tsarist secret police with the revolutionary underground. Many revolutionaries were undoubtedly agents of the secret police. But they were double agents: in the secret police they believed that the revolutionary was her agent and even protected him from legal persecution, and revolutionaries often used the capabilities, resources and protection of the secret police from the encroachments of other law enforcement officers to realize their revolutionary goals.
    "In politics, you can even make an alliance with Satan - but on condition that you are sure that you will deceive him, and not vice versa!"(Marx). The Bolsheviks am just turned trickier and meaner their German "partners".

    The Germans were solving current operational problems — they needed a revolution in Russia in order not to lose the war. The German bloc could no longer wage war on two fronts, cracked at the seams and lost the war to exhaustion. It was necessary to destroy one of the fronts - Russia turned out to be the "weak link". Therefore, the Germans supported all sorts of revolutionary forces in Russia. By the way, the German elite did not have the mind to conclude a separate peace with tsarist Russia
    The main thing that they did not have enough mind fool - remember the lessons of history: the rules of the game, even unwritten ones, are fraught with violation! Louis XVI sponsored a revolution in America to repay England for defeat in a 7-year war. After 12 years, an active participant in the American Revolution, the royal musketeer Marquis de La Fayette was equally active in the French Revolution.
    The Germans did not receive an answer after 12 years, but only after one and a half: part of the money paid by the German General Staff to the Bolsheviks went to finance the November Revolution of 1918.

    The masters of the West have finally created their own world order - slaves remain slaves, but are deceived by the illusion of freedom and equality. Internationalist revolutionaries, Trotskyists were to become at the same time the grave diggers of Russian civilization (Rus-Russia) and the Russian superethnos, and open the gates to the new world. But this globalization did not take place.
    The process got out of control of the West. The brilliantly planned global pseudo-communist globalization operation failed miserably.

    And it is in the same fields. Truly, "if you live in a glass house - do not throw stones at a neighbor!"
    1. dSK
      dSK 25 May 2018 19: 32
      +1
      Quote: Weyland
      In politics, you can make an alliance even with Satan - but on condition that you are sure that you will deceive him, and not vice versa! "(Marx).
      Hope to cheat father lies? It is only serving him.
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 25 May 2018 21: 29
        0
        Quote: dsk
        Hoping to trick the father of lies?

        This is where Marx has all the humor! laughing Although lies and deceit are very different things, and demons are much more informed, but by no means smarter than people: after all, in the image and likeness of God, man was created, not angels, and his potential is higher!
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 02: 03
      +2
      Quote: Weyland
      "In politics, you can make an alliance even with Satan - but on the condition that you are sure that you will deceive him, and not vice versa!" (Marx).

      I’ve been looking for your sparkling bulb all night. Have not found. Please send a link to the volume number of the collected works of K. Marx and F. Engels, and do not forget to indicate the page, otherwise the collected works contain more than 40 volumes and all have 400-500 or more pages.
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 26 May 2018 13: 10
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Please send a link to the volume number of the collected works of K. Marx and F. Engels, and do not forget to indicate the page, otherwise the collected works contain more than 40 volumes and all have 400-500 or more pages.

        You are too lazy to look - but I think not? laughing
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 15: 40
          +3
          Quote: Weyland
          You are too lazy to look - but I think not?

          Why then do you blurt out your tongue?
  12. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 25 May 2018 10: 57
    +8
    The next cast on the same fan, the actors and scenery are the same. Boring ...
  13. istoler
    istoler 25 May 2018 21: 17
    +9
    The problem with such analysts is that they are completely unaware that history is driven not by the mysterious “backstage”, but by the process of development of society. You cannot make a revolution from scratch; it is the fruit of centuries. From the Crimean War, the Russian Empire was moving towards a revolution, the feudal base itself had exhausted, and a transition to a new one was necessary.
    It is very good that at the time of the collapse in 1917 there was a party of Bolsheviks in Russia, otherwise the fate of the Ottoman Empire would have been waiting for us in the place of the USSR.
    1. Chervonny
      Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 56
      +24
      You're right. The era of new colonialism has come.
  14. TAMBU
    TAMBU 25 May 2018 22: 49
    +4
    I recognize Starikov’s adherents ... for a start, everything was not quite as described by this “historian”. But the main thing is that he does not recognize the objectivity of the causes of revolutionary situations and the occurrence of social phenomena in open political spaces ... Like, with money stuck in, who needs to overthrow power in a multi-million country ... If we assume for a second that the author’s assumptions are not absurd, then any logical chain of reasoning based on the study of documents relating to the course of processes in any pre-revolutionary period will show that regardless of the identity of the person who will lead the revolutionary movement - revolution will break out. By the way, the revolution began in 1905. This theory with the financing of the Bolsheviks (which at that time was not even mentioned) by the West how to stick to the 5th year? And the "historian" Starikov constantly misses from his reasoning the Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, and many others that influenced the development of the events of those years.
    A historical person can only speed up or slow down the flow of certain processes. If the revolutionary movement had been led, say, by Plekhanov, such clever men would also have found a reason to find a “trace” of veneers “from there”. This is 1.
    The army and the economy were destroyed by the feudal system of power of tsarist Russia. This began to manifest itself in the Crimean War .... and then it is already clearly visible in the war with Japan, but in the WWII it only proved to be true again. This is 2.
    An attempt to play on the personality of Stalin, taking advantage of his increased popularity among the people, without delving into the essence of his political activity, once again demonstrates the level of fabrications. Stalin was a 100% follower and adherent of Lenin's ideas. Lenin was incredibly consistent and there were no “turns” in his political program and activities. This is 3.

    Read carefully the works of Lenin and Marx.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 25 May 2018 23: 36
      0
      Quote: TAMBU
      But the main thing is that he does not recognize the objectivity of the reasons for the emergence of revolutionary situations and the occurrence of social phenomena in open political spaces ... Like, with money stuck in, who needs to overthrow power in a multi-million country ...

      You are not aware of the events that took place not so long ago (and are happening now) in Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Ukraine?
      Quote: TAMBU
      And the "historian" Starikov constantly misses from his reasoning the Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, and many others that influenced the development of the events of those years
      In fact, he never said that they financed only the Bolsheviks - they financed everyone (he analyzed the same Socialist Revolutionaries in great detail), as now.
      1. istoler
        istoler 26 May 2018 09: 24
        +5
        In Ukraine, Libya, and dozens of countries where the "color revolutions" took place, in fact there were coups during which reactionary politicians subordinated to the capitalist hegemon took power. The purpose of the coups is to turn these countries into colonies, as was done earlier in the 15-19 centuries. The bottom line is that class society itself cultivates such social groups, in relation to Ukraine the layer of the comprador bourgeoisie (treacherous) grew and took over the hands of the whole post-Soviet period, the Maidan only accelerated the process.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 26 May 2018 10: 55
          +1
          Quote: istoler
          In Ukraine, Libya, and dozens of countries where "color revolutions" took place, in fact, coups occurred during which reactionary politicians took power

          That is revolution.
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 26 May 2018 21: 24
            +2
            Quote: Dart2027
            That is revolution

            Those. coups d'etat. With a real revolution, the OEF changes, for example: The Great French Revolution, February 1917, in Russia, October 1917, in Russia. In color "revolutions", figuratively speaking, one gang of pigs pushes another gang of pigs out of the "trough" (using at the same time certain technologies developed by IMHO by analyzing the external manifestations of True Revolutions), and the OEF does not change.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 26 May 2018 22: 57
              0
              Quote: HanTengri
              With a real revolution, the OEF is changing

              If in the 90s this same OEF has changed, does this mean that then a revolution has occurred?
              Quote: HanTengri
              one gang of pigs, pushing another gang of pigs from the "trough"

              And when is it different? I remind you that the USSR was ruined by the leaders of the CPSU.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 23: 06
                +2
                Quote: Dart2027
                If in the 90s this same OEF has changed, does this mean that then a revolution has occurred?

                Yes, the OEF has changed, only relative to the 90s. this process is called counterrevolutionbecause there was a transition not from the lowest OEF to the higher, but rather from the highest to the lowest.
                1. TAMBU
                  TAMBU 27 May 2018 00: 46
                  +1
                  I agree. This is consistent with the theory that the USSR was defeated by the United States in the Cold War, as a result of which it became possible to conduct a "revolution", (or rather the counter-revolution of the 93rd) ... thus, the status of the Russian Federation can be safely considered colonial for: 1) the results of the war one country did not become in fact 2) a change in the basis to a lower level under the influence of external forces 3) the norms prescribed in the Constitution that subordinate all branches of government to external governance and deprive the country of ideology ... everything seems to be converging)
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 28 May 2018 02: 24
                    +1
                    Quote: TAMBU
                    I agree. This is consistent with the theory that the USSR was defeated by the United States in the Cold War, as a result of which it became possible to conduct a "revolution" (or rather, the counter-revolution of the 93rd) ... thus the status of the Russian Federation can be safely considered colonial .....
                    There was no defeat. There was Malta and a hunchback betrayal. Passed all. As if a war was going on and under equal conditions and with the availability of all weapons and means, one of the parties would give up.
                2. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 27 May 2018 06: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  because there was a transition not from the lowest OEF to the highest, but rather from the highest to the lowest

                  And who determines which lower and which not?
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 27 May 2018 20: 04
                    +4
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    And who determines which lower and which not?

                    The science. "Historical materialism" based on the universal laws of materialist dialectics
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 27 May 2018 20: 29
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      "Historical materialism" based on the universal laws of materialist dialectics

                      Simply put, created by fans of socialism. But in the United States, for example, its own science, which extol their democracy.
                      In short, a revolution is simply a change of power, and everything else is a special case.
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 27 May 2018 20: 31
                        +3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In short, a revolution is simply a change of power, and everything else is a special case

                        Do you understand what you are talking about?
                        The revolution is a change in the SOCIAL-economic formation, all that without a change is a coup, a coup, riot, conspiracy and criminality.
                        91-93-in the direct form of a criminal revolution, if you like the counter-revolution, the fruits of which are very sad.
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 27 May 2018 21: 29
                        +2
                        Quote from Darth: "Simply put, created by fans of socialism. But in the United States, for example, its own science, which extols their democracy"
                        Do not persist in your ignorance, learn better.
                        "The democratic system is one orderly order, the most perfect bourgeois order, where, along with maximum freedom, breadth, clarity of the class struggle, there is a maximum of cunning, tricks," ideological "influence of the bourgeoisie on wage slaves in order to distract them from the struggle against wage slavery." (V.I. Lenin, PSS, T.25, p. 321)
              2. Hantengri
                Hantengri 27 May 2018 00: 14
                +3
                Quote: Dart2027
                And when is it different? I remind you that the USSR was ruined by the leaders of the CPSU.

                Well, how do you explain, what’s reached ?! During the Revolution, as well as during the Revolution, both the form and the content of the “trough” change. During a coup d'etat (color revolution), the content and form of the "trough" remains the same. Only the orientation of the tidy pigs changes. Simplified to kindergarten level, damn it. So, hopefully clearer?
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 27 May 2018 06: 56
                  0
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  Only the orientation of the tidy pigs changes. Simplified to kindergarten level, damn it.

                  AND? as i wrote
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  I remind you that the USSR was ruined by the leaders of the CPSU
                  that is, the pigs remained pigs.
              3. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 28 May 2018 02: 36
                +3
                Quote: Dart2027
                I remind you that the USSR was ruined by the leaders of the CPSU.
                Besides you, the CPSU also said about the fault of the GDP.
                It seems to me such a conclusion from this — the next step — is to name specific surnames, since not all the party participated in this, but those who had the opportunity.
                The next step is to recall when the name of the CPSU appeared, under what circumstances.
                In this connection, Petka’s question to V.I. is not such a ridiculous question. YOU ARE FOR Bolsheviks or Communists.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 28 May 2018 06: 18
                  0
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  the next step is to name specific surname, since not the whole party participated in this, but those who had the opportunity

                  Party leaders, that is, members of the Central Committee and party leaders in the field. List all very long.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 28 May 2018 10: 05
                    +3
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Party leaders, that is, members of the Central Committee and party leaders in the field. List all very long

                    Enumerate the names of the "leadership" in the EP, in the past consisting of the CPSU and therefore guilty of the disaster, you need or you will find?
                    Proceeding from this, the shifter, even being a member of the CPSU, was essentially not a communist, but you do not want to see this point blank, apparently a betrayal, your ideal?
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 28 May 2018 10: 26
                      +3
                      Quote: badens1111
                      ...... To list the names of the "leadership" in the EP, formerly members of the CPSU and therefore guilty of the disaster, do you need or will you find it yourself?
                      Proceeding from this, the shifter, even being a member of the CPSU, was essentially not a communist, but you do not want to see this point blank, apparently a betrayal, your ideal?
                      It turns out that this should be done, the names are listed with a degree of guilt, otherwise, why start a proposal if you are not going to finish it.
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 28 May 2018 12: 52
                        +3
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        It turns out that this should be done, the names are listed with a degree of guilt, otherwise, why start a proposal if you are not going to finish it.

                        But this they can’t.
                        This is litmus paper, immediately showing the failure of their arguments.
                        You can list it, but the moderator, for various reasons, will immediately delete it.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 28 May 2018 14: 34
                        +2
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        ..... It turns out that this should be done, the names are listed with a degree of guilt .... a.
                        But not only that. After all, 2 times they repented for Katyn. From this many abominations went
                    2. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 28 May 2018 19: 59
                      0
                      Quote: badens1111
                      Proceeding from this, the shifter, even being a member of the CPSU, was essentially not a communist, but you do not want to see this point blank, apparently a betrayal, your ideal?

                      But what was the price of the ideas of communism, in practice, and not in beautiful theories, if the entire leadership of the Communist Party betrayed in full force?
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 28 May 2018 20: 46
                        +3
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        betrayed in full force?

                        The price to traitors is always the same, as well as to those who now serve them, justifying the crime.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 28 May 2018 21: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Proceeding from this, the shifter, even being a member of the CPSU, was essentially not a communist, but you do not want to see this point blank, apparently a betrayal, your ideal?
                        ....., in practice, ..... all the leadership of the Communist Party betrayed in full force?
                        In practice, the betrayal began at the plenum in 1952, there was a rejection of the previous installations, along with a new name.
        2. TAMBU
          TAMBU 26 May 2018 14: 26
          +2
          In Libya, it was a revolution, and bourgeois seems to be ... but a coup in Ukraine, because the system or ideology did not change, but the elites changed from less loyal to more ... in Egypt, as far as I remember, a military coup d'état was classic for them. ..
      2. TAMBU
        TAMBU 26 May 2018 14: 22
        +2
        I know. Any capital community is experiencing crises with an enviable frequency. The fact that they are being helped from outside is understandable. But the reason lies in the basis formation system (economy), and there will always be assistants to inflate the fire of a coup ... As long as there is someone to absorb from the outside of the system, everything is fine. As soon as there is nothing to “eat”, redistribution within the system arises ... and a crisis arises that leads to various types of upheavals ...
        I did not say that Starikov claims that the West financed only the Bolsheviks. I talked about the fact that at the moment when, in his opinion, Lenin "decided to turn in the direction of implementing a social experiment of unprecedented proportions" both before and after the Bolsheviks were, for example, Socialist Revolutionaries ... and many more ... all these organizations and parties wanted a revolution, since all the necessary prerequisites for this had developed, and not because someone had paid money to them for almost a hundred years (counting from the Decembrists) ... so it turns out that the British paid the same money for about a hundred years and the Germans, and before that, a couple of hundred years to the French, and then again fra to the French, and then to the Americans ... and many more to anyone around the world ...
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 28 May 2018 02: 14
          +1
          Quote: TAMBU
          ...... it turns out that the British paid the same money for about a hundred years to the Germans, and before that, the French, and then again to the French, and then to the Americans, and then to the Americans ... and many more to anyone around the world ...
          As for the money, I read something to the French, but don’t repeat it, I need to look for it .... However, the small-shavens had long-term programs that they tried to implement. Especially about the destruction of Russia. And money is one of the tools.
  15. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 09: 52
    +2
    Olgovich,
    Wow I would quote Korzhakova. Especially the operation "Sunset" I like.
  16. Sanny
    Sanny 26 May 2018 13: 41
    +1
    Not the mythical West helped, but US financial circles (the Jewish diaspora), German intelligence. This was described in detail by the same Trotsky. The English history textbooks state that in the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks on 25.10.1917/4/XNUMX, German prisoners of war were accepted, who were brought from Finnish railroad camps in Finland. The Finns fought for their independence. Finnish camp guards released the Germans. Armed prisoners of the Americans. Trotsky’s steamer with weapons in Helsinki is by no means an invention! The plan for the capture of Petrograd - bridges, post office, telegraph, was developed by the German General Staff. The order of the German General Staff was read by the prisoner. These prisoners wanted to return home! Namely, in front of the German prisoners of war, Lenin spoke with an armored car at the Finnish station. There is evidence that part of this speech was in German. Proper planning, the presence under arms of XNUMX thousand disciplined soldiers and officers who dream of returning to their homeland, contributed to success.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 16: 16
      +3
      Quote: Sanny
      Not the mythical West helped, but US financial circles (the Jewish diaspora), German intelligence. This was described in detail by the same Trotsky. In English history textbooks, it is stated that in the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks on October 25.10.1917, XNUMX, German prisoners of war were accepted,

      Little boy Sanya, do not read English history books, everyone lies there. Trotsky, of course, is a bad uncle, but he is not to describe what they can accuse him of. Therefore, do not repeat different fabrications for other people's uncles, but learn to draw conclusions yourself. If you learn this, you will understand that: Uncle Trotsky did not write such nonsense.
    2. Chervonny
      Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 56
      +22
      Rave. Especially refer to Trotsky.
    3. Chervonny
      Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 57
      +23
      The British will write something else ... The British themselves, by the way, started a rumor about the financing of the Bolsheviks by the Germans.
  17. Opera
    Opera 26 May 2018 20: 34
    +2
    Sorry! Late I read the article. Late for discussion. Forgive Olgovich and Poruchik, did not support. And therefore it remains to add only one thing (it’s better because late than never). So, you can upload a bunch of documents, but people who do not want to accept them and will not accept them. Be it even the primary sources. I’ll simply say - you can never build anything lasting, monumental on blood and on denying and rewriting the history of your country! Remember - we will destroy the whole world of violence to the ground (is it not violence to the ground that is violence ?!), and then ... and further - the prison of peoples, Great Russian chauvinism, oppressed peoples, the bloody king, gendarmes, lords - secret police, executions of civilians workers, general poverty and hunger, Cossacks with sabers, stupid nobility and greedy merchants ... I forgot nothing ?! I know what is interesting - but how did Vladimir Ilyich survive in this horror ?! Why didn’t they hang him ?! And how did he, sitting in a jail, make an inkwell out of bread and pour milk there?!?!?!?! In prison then ?! Why in such a poor country the gendarmes didn’t take away his milk and by the way, too ?! And he himself was not sorry for such a nutritious product to spend on scribble ?! And I’m also wondering - why did everyone all exile him somewhere where he was skiing, then hunting, and it seems that he even did legal practice ?! He wrote all the time, something ... How could a whole collection of essays be written without speaking about articles, decrees, appeals ...?! Is there anyone at all, who has read all this ?! Why not at his mines? Well, there in the quarry and in shackles ... With a huge stone on his shoulders! What a disagreement! Or you know I’ll absolutely say such a thing, but why didn’t they kick him off somewhere in the gateway ?! So in Russian, as it should be ?! Only without fail, as expected! And lastly, so politely - don’t spoil the people anymore, Mr. Ulyanov! Don’t ... Okay ?! I think he would answer - Llladno! He would have gotten rid of and left for Switzerland. Maybe there would have made a revolution? And the king was shot! With his wife and children, and even the inner circle did not regret it! And then Russia lost millions and millions of its citizens who died and fled from the country ... For us now these are just depersonalized figures, but in fact these are the fates of people, entire families, estates, and sometimes whole villages and settlements ... will you build happiness on someone else’s misfortune and such cruel misfortune?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 26 May 2018 20: 38
      +3
      Quote: Oper
      I know what is interesting - but how did Vladimir Ilyich survive in this horror ?!

      What are you broke? Opera ...
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 27 May 2018 06: 39
        +2
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Quote: Oper
        I know what is interesting - but how did Vladimir Ilyich survive in this horror ?!
        ...
        How did you survive? But it’s very simple. Vladimir Ilyich was a hereditary nobleman, estate privileges. Like Herzen, however. And the fate of the Narodnaya Volya, a different class, is quite different. Zhelebov, Bauman, Khalturin, Ukhtomsky, Perovskaya, Kibalchich, Kalyaev ----- all were executed.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 27 May 2018 18: 09
          0
          Well, Volodya’s older brother was executed, after all.
          Vladimir Ilyich - a clever man of wide scope - terrorism itself
          not involved, but reasonably founded an independent "combat wing, as it were
          party. "Any dashing Camo took banks, etc. They shot, blew.
          And the cold-blooded Stalin ex-man led and transported the "selected" money to Switzerland, Ilyich and his comrades.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 27 May 2018 20: 22
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            And the cold-blooded Stalin ex-man led and transported the "selected" money to Switzerland, Ilyich and his comrades.

            And?
            Had innocent people or suffered from the number of parasites on the neck of the people suffered?
            Can we recall the militants from among yours, who both bombed and shot the British, capturing what they needed to build Israel?
    2. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 26 May 2018 23: 15
      +1
      Quote: Oper
      Is it possible to build happiness on someone else’s misfortune and such a terrible misfortune?

      But before the revolution, did a handful of rich people (a minority of the Russian population) not base their happiness on the misfortune of the working people (the majority of the Russian population)?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 27 May 2018 06: 27
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Green
        But before the revolution, did a handful of rich people (a minority of the Russian population) not base their happiness on the misfortune of the working people (the majority of the Russian population)?
        Of course, did not build ----- a handful owned serfs by birth! And what kind of misfortune did the workers have? It was their duty ---- to work for a penny, live in cramped conditions and die, barely reaching 30 years old, or a little not reaching 30 years old.
    3. Chervonny
      Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 58
      +22
      We would have posted it, and we looked at your fake documents.
      Otherwise, anyone can radiate hatred and write their angry comments. And there is no way to confirm your words with real facts ...
  18. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 26 May 2018 21: 58
    +3
    "the ruling clans of the West did not oppose the so-called" world revolution. "In fact, the world revolution was part of the plan of the Western masters to create a" new world order ", globalization according to the Western project. They were going to stand at the head of the world revolution and the future Union of Soviet republics of the planet "////

    It’s easy - stunned! good wassat
    This have not happened before! This is a sensation.
    Rothschild and Rockefeller are at the head of the world revolution and the USSR of the whole planet!
    And they said Samsonov signed up, repeated?
    No - he is fresh and innovative, like Lenin in October!
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 27 May 2018 06: 17
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      It’s easy - stunned! good wassat And they said, Samsonov signed up, is it repeated? No - he is fresh and innovative,!
      Samsonov can’t write in any way. Since, in my opinion, this is a team of authors. However, a WARRIOR, SOMEONE'S BROTHER is also probably a team of authors, employees rather. After all, cannot the anti-Soviet, anti-communist (in his own words) finally find his historical homeland, comment on Saturdays? No, he can not. This is work. It seems to be collective.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 27 May 2018 09: 41
        +2
        "WARRIOR, SOMEONE'S BROTHER, is also probably a team of authors, employees rather." ////

        Look who's Talking? stop With such a talking nickname. Reptilians already have more money on Nibiru than the poor Jews. We are sitting here 50 people in a cramped room, scribbling anti-Soviet posts for pennies for 12 hours a day (and why scribbling? recourse - the Soviet government itself has long died of old age).
        But Soros pays with Rothschild - kids need to be fed bread crying .
  19. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 27 May 2018 11: 17
    +3
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Reptilians already have more money on Nibiru than the poor Jews. crying .

    More, less ... Money has a different look, a different shape, sometimes not perceived by earthlings. And with cashing --- always a problem. Both in the Solar System and beyond. Well, you understand ...
  20. Dart2027
    Dart2027 27 May 2018 13: 13
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    Putin’s opinion, as well as the opinion of any other person who has little knowledge of the issue, does not convince.

    Well, so who invented this system with the division into republics with the right to exit, if not the Bolsheviks?
    Quote: badens1111
    Teach History, you will be happy, otherwise at least you count on the head, you will not learn historicity and conditions at that time, in those conditions and in the need to do just that and not otherwise.

    And the need was caused by utopian theories of the world revolution?
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 27 May 2018 14: 17
      +3
      Quote: Dart2027
      Well, so who invented this system with the division into republics with the right to exit, if not the Bolsheviks?

      Before asking questions, thinking that you are perplexed, do your education, and not overlooking and jogging through rotten theories of neoliberals of various stripes, History is studied not after the fact, but from the perspective of that time, and if you do not understand this, do not clog the pages of VO with idle rubbish .
      The exit of the republics from the USSR. In 91 concocted with a complete violation of everything and everything, it is time to already know this.
      However, Belovezhie is a joyful occasion for you. Well, to each his own, each chooses for himself, a woman., Fate, road ..
      Quote: Dart2027
      And the need was caused by utopian theories of the world revolution?

      Your utopian dream, along with Chubais, to hammer a rusty nail somewhere, will ultimately turn into a hammer in his Chubais and his ilk.
      An extensive quote, but you can’t do without it, you don’t understand what writing is written from time to time.
      “The Union Treaty of 1922 lasted a little over a year and turned into a purely historical document, since in 1924 it was replaced by a new Union Treaty, which became an integral part of the first Union Constitution. But this treaty also became a thing of the past after the Constitution was adopted The USSR in 1936, in which the Union Treaty was not even mentioned, nor was it mentioned in the 1977 Constitution [3783].

      But even if by December 8, 1991 the Union Treaty, signed in 1922, continued to operate, the three named union republics did not have the right to terminate it and declare the USSR ceased to exist, a) firstly, because it did not provide for such an opportunity and gave the signatory republics only the right to secede from the USSR, b) secondly, in addition to these three republics, it was signed by the ZSFSR. And although by 1991 the ZSFSR no longer existed, the constituent republics that were its successors continued to exist, c) thirdly, by 1991 the USSR included 15 republics, so three of them could not decide the fate of the remaining 12 and deprive them of their right to stay in the Union, d) fourthly, the fate of the USSR could be decided only by its highest legislative body, which was constitutionally the Congress of People’s Deputies, and according to the decisions of the Fifth Congress of People’s Deputies, the Supreme Soviet of the USSR. "https: // history. wikireading.ru/32200
      For the sake of law, to fill your pockets, people like you (just like that, you zealously defend the result of a criminal crime by Yeltsin violated the will of the country's population, expressed in a referendum.
      By the way, is it a secret for you that already in the central district more and more people are standing next to the authorities of those who hear the Belovezhie-crime?
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 27 May 2018 15: 37
        0
        Quote: badens1111
        Before asking questions, thinking that you are perplexed, take up your education, not overlooking and jogging through the rotten theories of neoliberals of various stripes

        Well, who did come up with this system?
        Quote: badens1111
        An extensive quote, but you can’t do without it, you don’t understand what writing is written from time to time.

        Quote: badens1111
        The exit of the republics from the USSR. 91 concocted with a complete violation of everything and everything

        Which does not change the fact that the creation of these republics was, to put it mildly, not a very clever act.
        Quote: badens1111
        For the sake of law, to fill your pockets, people like you (just like that, you zealously defend the result of a criminal crime by Yeltsin violated the will of the country's population, expressed in a referendum.

        Am I protecting them? Why? But only if Yeltsin and his gang were traitors, it does not follow from this that the principle of creating the USSR and dividing the Russian people into three was the right thing and Lenin was not to blame for anything.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 27 May 2018 20: 29
          +2
          Quote: Dart2027
          Which does not change the fact that the creation of these republics was, to put it mildly, not a very clever act.

          It is you who suffer from the lack of the very thing that is called the mind, since you don’t understand. Why, in those conditions, this was how Russia was brought together.
          Quote: Dart2027
          But only if Yeltsin and his gang were traitors, it does not follow from this that the principle of creating the USSR and dividing the Russian people into three was the right thing and Lenin was not to blame for anything.

          Are you suffering from a defect in the development of intelligence that you really don’t understand that your Yeltsin didn’t just reset the USSR, he reset the efforts of generations, including the tsarist period?
          When and how was the triune people divided in Soviet times?
          Where, when and in Soviet times, who opposed Russian to Ukrainian, Belarusian to Russian, Russian to Belarus and vice versa?
          Your Nazi worldview, directly and in form, is a guarantee of the country's defeat.
          Quote: Dart2027
          But if Yeltsin and his gang were traitors, then this does not follow

          You really don’t understand what you are talking about?
          What about the damage only to the RSFSR-RF, directly correlated with the damage from Hitler’s invasion, from the result of the actions of your object of sighing?
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 27 May 2018 20: 35
            0
            Quote: badens1111
            It is you who suffer from the lack of the very thing that is called the mind, since you don’t understand. Why, in those conditions, this was how Russia was brought together.
            First, why would it not be different? Because for the realization of his own plans, Lenin was ready to make a deal even with the devil? Secondly, that having gathered it together it was impossible to refuse this turbidity?
            Quote: badens1111
            Where, when and in Soviet times, who opposed Russian to Ukrainian, Belarusian to Russian, Russian to Belarus and vice versa?
            Please show me the map on which Ukraine and Belarus would be until 1917.
            Quote: badens1111
            You really don’t understand what you are talking about? What about the damage only to the RSFSR-RF, directly correlated with the damage from Hitler’s invasion, from the result of the actions of your object of sighing?

            Yes, I know, only Yeltsin is guilty of his sins, but the sins of Lenin do not apply to him.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 27 May 2018 22: 19
              +2
              Quote: Dart2027
              First, why would it not be different? Because for the realization of his own plans, Lenin was ready to make a deal even with the devil? Secondly, that having gathered it together it was impossible to refuse this turbidity?

              Firstly, because the story took place as it took place.
              Secondly, it could not, under those conditions and in those realities, take place in a different way,
              Thirdly, your attempt to replay the story is futile. There has already been a juone, and you cannot change it.
              Quote: Dart2027
              Please show me the map on which Ukraine and Belarus would be until 1917.

              Please, study the map of Russia after 91 years. For you, a nationalist with a Vlasov understanding of the history of Russia, the USSR is not Russia, although in reality it is RUSSIA in its natural geopolitical, economic and other limits.
              Quote: Dart2027
              Yes, I know, only Yeltsin is guilty of his sins, but the sins of Lenin do not apply to him.

              Lenin’s sins? What, is that the basis of the statehood of the Russian Federation is still signed by V. Lenin, since the RF is the legal successor of the USSR?
              So you curse Yeltsin .. even though people like this foolish traitor are always honored by his kind. No wonder that in Yekaterinburg there is a disgrace to the E-center, like the curse of Russia.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 27 May 2018 22: 39
                0
                Quote: badens1111
                Firstly, because the story took place as it took place.
                And the communism project failed.
                Quote: badens1111
                Secondly, it could not, under those conditions and in those realities, take place in a different way,
                From the moment people came to power who want to build a utopia?
                Quote: badens1111
                Thirdly, your attempt to replay the story is futile. There has already been a juone, and you cannot change it.
                You are actually trying.
                Quote: badens1111
                Lenin’s sins? What, is that the basis of the statehood of the Russian Federation is still signed by V. Lenin, since the RF is the legal successor of the USSR?
                Quote: badens1111
                Please, study the map of Russia after 91 years. For you, a nationalist with a Vlasov understanding of the history of Russia, the USSR is not Russia, although in reality it is RUSSIA in its natural geopolitical, economic and other limits.
                Please show me the map on which Ukraine and Belarus would be until 1917. Will you show or not?
              2. Chervonny
                Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 59
                +25
                Now, at the power level, there is a rewriting of history and denigration of the Soviet system.
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 27 May 2018 21: 45
          +1
          Quote: Dart2027
          Which does not change the fact that the creation of these republics was, to put it mildly, not a very clever act.

          You are all tormented by the question, who invented the USSR? You need to work on your political background. I advise you to visit two sites, there is a Bolshevik educational program.

          http://bolshevick.org//
          https://work-way.com/blog/

          The USSR was created on the ruins of the Russian Empire, taking into account the theory of Marxism, one of the provisions of which is "the right of nations to self-determination." After the February Revolution of 1917, many peoples determined themselves and founded their own states. It was already impossible to drive them into a single unitary state by force, therefore unification in the USSR was voluntary, on the general idea of ​​universal equality and on a single structure of power - in the form of councils of workers and peasants.
          Such a union was so strong that the USSR resisted the crusade of anti-communism in almost all of Europe.
          So the right of nations to self-determination when creating the USSR is not a bomb.
          The bomb was planted after the death of Stalin in 1961 with the adoption of the new Party Program, when they abandoned the dictatorship of the proletariat, the USSR was declared a nation-wide state, and the CPSU was the party of the whole people. As a result, the class struggle of the Soviet Communists and the working class against capitalism was curtailed in the USSR.
          And the USSR, which was born in all the republics, was destroyed by the national neo-bourgeoisie, which, for the sake of protecting its local markets from the center, committed this crime. And note that this process is not fading, the trend of destruction continues, only Ukraine and Russia are now attacking, and maintaining unity of which is possible only by force. And the unity of the USSR was carried out voluntarily on the basis of proletarian internationalism.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 27 May 2018 22: 45
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            The USSR was created on the ruins of the Russian Empire, taking into account the theory of Marxism, one of the provisions of which is "the right of nations to self-determination."
            That is, all this turbidity with the republics, as well as the creation of Ukraine and Belarus, was invented by the Bolsheviks. Q.E.D.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            The bomb was planted after the death of Stalin in 1961 with the adoption of the new Party Program, when they abandoned the dictatorship of the proletariat, the USSR was declared a nation-wide state, and the CPSU was the party of the whole people.
            And you mean divide people into superhuman and subhuman? It reminds someone of me.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Ukraine and Russia, and maintaining unity of which is possible only by force. And the unity of the USSR was carried out voluntarily on the basis of proletarian internationalism.
            Something no internationalism did not prevent the proletarians from shooting at each other throughout the 20th century, including the Communists. This is if you do not read Lenin's tales, but learn history.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            "The democratic system is one orderly order, the most perfect bourgeois order, where, along with maximum freedom, breadth, clarity of the class struggle, there is a maximum of cunning, tricks," ideological "influence of the bourgeoisie on wage slaves in order to distract them from the struggle against wage slavery." (V.I. Lenin, PSS, T.25, p. 321)
            Very pathetic. That's just the theory of Lenin did not particularly take root.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            I answer: ask your companion Olgievich
            That is nothing concrete.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 28 May 2018 01: 37
              +2
              Quote: Dart2027
              That is, all this turbidity with the republics, as well as the creation of Ukraine and Belarus, was invented by the Bolsheviks. Q.E.D.

              First, with the republics, this is not muddy, but it was not the Bolsheviks who came up with them, but life itself. They all formed themselves after the February Revolution and the whole civil war were independent.
              Secondly, do not make people laugh with your "proof." Nobody has ever hidden the principles of the union of Soviet republics into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. You can just as well take up the proof that the sun rises and sets.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 28 May 2018 06: 22
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                First, with the republics, this is not muddy, but it was not the Bolsheviks who came up with them, but life itself. They all formed themselves after the February Revolution and the whole civil war were independent.

                In the GV, almost individual villages were independent, so what?
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Nobody has ever hidden the principles of the union of Soviet republics into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

                Of course, the struggle against Great-Russian chauvinism.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 28 May 2018 21: 41
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  In the GV, almost individual villages were independent, so what?

                  You can see something is not catching up. Read from V.I. Lenin, why is the municipality of "self-determination of nations" important
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 28 May 2018 22: 12
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Read from V.I. Lenin, why is the municipality of "self-determination of nations" important

                    Because it gives a great opportunity to ruin the country? Lenin wrote a lot of things, but only in practice it turned out to be very divorced from reality.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 28 May 2018 01: 53
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            ........ And the USSR, which was born in all the republics, was destroyed by the national neo-bourgeoisie, which, for the sake of protecting its local markets from the center, committed this crime. And note that this process is not fading, the trend of destruction continues, only Ukraine and Russia are now attacking, and maintaining unity of which is possible only by force. And the unity of the USSR was carried out voluntarily on the basis of proletarian internationalism.
            I do not quite agree with you, dear Alexander. Attacks on Ukraine and Russia, you write? In my opinion, the behavior of the West is such as if it were attacks on Russia. In the eyes of the West, in my opinion, Ukraine is still part of Russia. Such indifference to the deaths of people ..... after all, Russians are killed --- their eternal enemies .. Note that the terrorist attack in Chechnya ---- is also indifference, in the eyes of Europe ---- Chechnya is Russia. And how many cries of self-determination. .... In their opinion ---- military operations take place against Russia, tearing Ukraine away, they believe that they tear off part of Russia.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 28 May 2018 02: 05
              +1
              Quote: Reptiloid
              In their opinion, military operations take place against Russia, tearing Ukraine away, they believe that they are tearing off part of Russia.

              Dmitry, no one denies the West’s participation in the destruction of the USSR, they threw us agents of influence, but the local bourgeois national elites destroyed the Union. Today in the West they understand that Ukraine and Russia are not united, but they want to finally tear it out from under the influence of Russia, so that we can never unite.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 28 May 2018 02: 51
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Green
                ..... Today in the West they understand that Ukraine and Russia are not united, but they want to finally tear it out from under the influence of Russia, so that we can never unite.
                Understanding is the mind, so to speak. And indifference to death and non-invitation of Ukrainians to Europe are emotions, compare with the invitation of black people
                Emotionally --- the USSR is alive for them .... Something like that. This is a big mystery.
                About the local bourgeois. the elite don't know anything. Read --- do not re-read.
  21. Dart2027
    Dart2027 27 May 2018 20: 30
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    I said ask Olgievich. he again accuses me of stealing other people's articles.

    What am I to do with it? You write to me, and answer me.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 27 May 2018 21: 39
      0
      Quote: Dart2027
      What am I to do with it? You write to me, and answer me.

      I answer: ask your companion Olgievich
  22. Dart2027
    Dart2027 27 May 2018 20: 40
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    Do you understand what you are talking about? The revolution is a change in the SOCIAL-economic formation, all that without a change is a coup, a coup, riot, conspiracy and criminality. 91-93-in the direct form of a criminal revolution, if you like the counter-revolution, the fruits of which are very sad.
    And what is the difference if this formation has changed? The fact that in you personally for those revolutionaries and against these? I don’t like anyone like that, it’s very difficult to clean up after them.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 27 May 2018 22: 20
      +2
      Quote: Dart2027
      I don’t like anyone like that, it’s very difficult to clean up after them.

      Do not lie.
      You are clearly pleasing Chubais, Yeltsins and other Berezovsky-these are your idols.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 27 May 2018 22: 47
        0
        Quote: badens1111
        You are clearly pleasing Chubais, Yeltsin and other Berezovsky-these are your idols.

        So I'm right?
        Quote: Dart2027
        And what is the difference if this formation has changed? The fact that in you personally for those revolutionaries and against these?
  23. badens1111
    badens1111 27 May 2018 22: 48
    +1
    Quote: Dart2027
    If you now begin to give birth to 10-12 children, then mortality will also increase significantly, despite the modern development of medicine.

    With what fright? By chance you have not confused modern medicine with midwives in the village at the Republic of Ingushetia?
  24. badens1111
    badens1111 28 May 2018 10: 02
    +2
    Olgovich,
    Basically lying.
    There is no case that a person would not heed the arguments of the opposing side, the persistence in the spread of lies and falsifications confirms one-professional liar disinfectant.
    NTS school? Amnuel in teachers?
  25. Dart2027
    Dart2027 28 May 2018 22: 14
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    The price to traitors is always the same, as well as to those who now serve them, justifying the crime.

    AND? So what was the real price for beautiful theories?
  26. cradle
    cradle 30 May 2018 02: 50
    0
    Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
    The USSR was constantly No. 2, constantly reacting, responding, parrying and "catching up and overtaking." Conditions were dictated by the Americans.

    not by the Americans but by the world government. America was simply chosen as the main base, due to its remote location from the European theater.
  27. Dart2027
    Dart2027 30 May 2018 19: 44
    0
    Quote: zoolu350
    1940 doesn’t tell you anything? Well, in the Brezhnev era, the story with Bulgaria was, but then the emphasis was on the number of allies in the UN.
    Allies are one thing, and dividing their country is another. No one except the USSR thought of such nonsense.
  28. gsev
    gsev 31 May 2018 00: 09
    0
    We do not teach or taught the history of our country. All over the world, education is divided into 2 types of gymnasium for the elite and a real school for the lower classes. Although with the development of society, the concept of who belongs to the elite and who to the lower classes has changed dramatically. In the USSR, it was customary to teach everyone how the elite — in the Soviet school, they taught geography, for example, as if they trained everyone as officers of the General Staff. But for all this is not necessary. Therefore, in the course of the school, a source for study was given, for example, the work of M. Gorky "V.I. Lenin". From the school course, any student should have learned a little about Lenin from the passage in the anthology. A thoughtful student should have read how the rogue Parvus robbed the Bolsheviks by an amount exceeding the German money allocated for Lenin. But for this you need to read this work in full. In the traditions of the Russian intelligentsia, to transfer their knowledge to representatives of other groups. But after the confrontation between Trotsky and Stalin in 20 years, such activity began to qualify as anti-state activity. Openly discussing the problems of his position, the problems of history became bad manners. Now even a serviceman receives a ban on raising questions about problems in the army before the top leadership. But even if we recall the Stalin era, it was even encouraged to address proposals and questions even to the name of Stalin. Read for example Golovanov’s memoirs. AND
  29. Dart2027
    Dart2027 31 May 2018 19: 31
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Quote: Dart2027
    That is, again, the struggle against Great Russian chauvinism.

    But he, like nationalism, has not gone anywhere. At one time, he was the trigger for the destruction of the USSR.

    Is it he? And did not the regional elites that had been anxiously created for 70 years grown up due to the struggle against it?
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 31 May 2018 22: 38
      +1
      Quote: Dart2027
      Is it he? And did not the regional elites that had been anxiously created for 70 years grown up due to the struggle against it?

      As soon as the RSFSR adopted the Declaration of State Sovereignty on June 12, 1991, the destruction of the USSR became inevitable. Russia was the backbone of the Soviet Union.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 1 June 2018 17: 53
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        As soon as the RSFSR adopted the Declaration of State Sovereignty on June 12, 1991, the destruction of the USSR became inevitable.

        Yes, yes, yes, and all kinds of declarations adopted, already from 1988 existed in parallel reality?
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 1 June 2018 23: 52
          +1
          Quote: Dart2027
          Yes, yes, yes, and all kinds of declarations adopted, already from 1988 existed in parallel reality?

          A living organism without any part can live, without a ridge - immediate death.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 2 June 2018 06: 53
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            A living organism can live without any part

            But was there no way to live as a whole?
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 2 June 2018 13: 05
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              But was there no way to live as a whole?

              It was possible, but your predecessors, who labeled socialism and came to Russia (perhaps you were among them), did everything to destroy the USSR: they brought the matter to the point that the ridge of the Soviet state was broken (declaration of independence of the RSFSR), but they don’t live with a broken ridge for a long time.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 2 June 2018 15: 09
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                It was possible, but your predecessors, who were tagged in socialism

                Yes, yes, yes ... Already been. I ask you again - who divided the united country into parts and the Russian people into three if not Bolsheviks? It is very unpleasant to admit the fact that without this there would be no one to be divided?
                1. Red shooter
                  Red shooter 2 June 2018 19: 38
                  +1
                  Well, here you are somewhat ... mistaken (?)
                  Let's just say wrong.
                  First, recall the story: yes, the Bolsheviks did not prevent separation. Poland and the Baltic principalities, the Bolsheviks simply did not have enough strength to keep them in a single state.
                  But white from the first minute began to tear their empire to shreds, create republics, conclude enslaving agreements with Western countries and Japan.
                  By the way, the Bolsheviks at the first opportunity began to collect the breakaway region together.
                  And the Bolsheviks did not set themselves the task of fragmenting Russia if you were familiar with their program, or to save Russia, the task was to free the masses of working people in all territories where it would be possible, from the loss of certain territories to the expansion of new ones.
                  After perestroika, it was not the Bolsheviks who tore the USSR apart, but quite bourgeois elements that began to develop quietly under Khrushchev and flourished under Gorbachev.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 2 June 2018 21: 43
                    0
                    Quote: Red shooter
                    First, recall the story: yes, the Bolsheviks did not prevent separation. Poland and the Baltic principalities, the Bolsheviks simply did not have enough strength to keep them in a single state.
                    First, let’s recall what is at stake
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Well, so who invented this system with the division into republics with the right to exit, if not the Bolsheviks?
                    If you can still say something about the separation of Poland and the Baltic states, then everything else has no reasonable explanation.
                    Quote: Red shooter
                    And the Bolsheviks did not set themselves the task of fragmenting Russia, if you are familiar with their program, or to save Russia, the task was to free the masses of workers in all territories where it will be possible
                    That is, they were not statesmen, but utopians?
                    Quote: Red shooter
                    After perestroika, not the Bolsheviks tore the USSR
                    but only immigrants from the CPSU. Which in any case does not cancel the absurdity of his device.
                    Quote: Red shooter
                    But white from the first minute began to tear their empire to shreds, create republics, conclude enslaving agreements with Western countries and Japan.
                    In terms of flirting with foreigners, everyone was good, but the stories that whites shared Russia were confirmed only by statements of their opponents.
                2. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 00: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  It was possible, but your predecessors, who were tagged in socialism

                  Yes, yes, yes ... Already been. I ask you again - who divided the united country into parts and the Russian people into three if not Bolsheviks? It is very unpleasant to admit the fact that without this there would be no one to be divided?

                  Under Stalin, the Bolsheviks conducted the correct national policy and the Union was one, and the basis of the Union - internationalism passed the test of a difficult war. After Stalin's death, the hidden Khrushchev clique, together with the so-called personality cult, rejected the correct national policy, which led to the reanimation of bourgeois nationalists and chauvinists, who destroyed the USSR. By this time, the Bolsheviks had not been in the leadership for a long time, they were squeezed out of power in the second rug of the 50s.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 3 June 2018 06: 42
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Under Stalin, the Bolsheviks conducted the correct national policy and the Union was one, and the basis of the Union - internationalism passed the test of a difficult war.
                    That is, the whole idea of ​​building communism rested on one person. Well, what then is the price to beautiful theories?
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 11: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      That is, the whole idea of ​​building communism rested on one person. Well, what then is the price to beautiful theories?

                      I have explained this on the forum more than once, as I understand it, you either do not read all the comments, or my answers do not triple you. I can advise you to contact Olgievich, he has a training manual from which he draws all his answers, I think you will like them.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 3 June 2018 14: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I have explained this on the forum more than once, as I understand it, you either do not read all the comments, or my answers do not triple you

                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Under Stalin, the Bolsheviks conducted the correct national policy and the Union was one, and the basis of the Union - internationalism passed the test of a difficult war. After Stalin's death, the hidden Khrushchev clique, together with the so-called personality cult, rejected the correct national policy, which led to the reanimation of bourgeois nationalists and chauvinists, who destroyed the USSR. By this time, the Bolsheviks had not been in the leadership for a long time, they were squeezed out of power in the second rug of the 50s.

                        Well, how else to understand your words? While there was Stalin - everything was as he was gone - everything fell apart.
  30. Red shooter
    Red shooter 1 June 2018 20: 28
    +1
    And again, bourgeois-nationalist circles are discussing the question of the Marxist representative of the Western financial elite, the Bolsheviks (at least partially) in the service of Western financiers, and about Stalin, who violated their plans and restored the EMPIRE ...
    Only the respected Author forgot to throw a stone into the garden of Lenin, just mentioned in passing ... Modestly ...
    .
    Well, let's start with the fact that I read both Marx and Engels. I read it thoughtfully. I did not find ANYTHING that would be beneficial to this global financial elite.
    Yes, and this top appeared only in 1913, in its infancy, but the theory of Marx and Engels ALREADY HAS!
    If the respected Author tells me where Marx and Engels look for indications of globalization IN THE INTERESTS OF FINANCERS, I will be grateful!
    .
    I would also appreciate a hint where to look for facts according to Sverdlov. Just do not gossip about the mythical pounds of diamonds in his safe for a rainy day and kilograms of passport blank forms of all countries and peoples.
    .
    Further, really Western financiers sought to use the revolution in Russia in their own interests, indeed it was precisely for this that Lenin was allowed to enter Russia in the 17th. It was a mistake: Lenin was not going to work in the interests of financiers, Lenin worked in the interests of the PROLETARIAT, as Marx and Engels taught!
    Indeed, they sent Trotsky to "lead" the revolution; Trotsky was entering the house of the Warburgs.
    And this was also a mistake: Trotsky is an extremely ambitious and biased person. His reports somewhat (if not substantially!) Reduced US activity in the intervention: why destroy and seize that which itself is in the hands?
    And that is precisely why Lenin endured Trotsky both with the People’s Commissar of Foreign Affairs and after the People’s Commissar for War: high-profile posts, but limited opportunities.
    .
    But Trotsky alone and his henchmen were not yet a Bolshevik party (all the more so since he joined the Bolsheviks only in September or at the end of August), and Trotsky was not a Marxist, all the time he was only "rubbed" by the Marxists.
    In this regard, the author's emphasis on the work of the Bolshevik Marxists on the interests of the world financial elite is not just incorrect, but frankly false!
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 1 June 2018 23: 57
      +1
      Quote: Red shooter
      ... The author's emphasis on the work of the Bolshevik Marxists on the interests of the world financial elite is not just incorrect, but frankly false!

      I subscribe to every word.
  31. Dart2027
    Dart2027 3 June 2018 06: 39
    0
    Quote: zoolu350
    The opportunity to join the GDR was
    Kaliningrad attached, but the rest is not? There were no such opportunities.
  32. Chervonny
    Chervonny 22 November 2020 16: 47
    +22
    West helped the Bolsheviks?

    Rave. The West feared and fears the Bolsheviks most of all. Since the Bolsheviks are destroying capitalism.