The last of the universal. From MP5 to Spectrum

66
Submachine gun MP5, "Yati-Matik" and "Spectrum".

They became the further development of the line of this type of small weapons and the answer to the next challenges of their time.



Better late than never!


Although polls of military personnel regarding the weapons they would like to fight with, were conducted at the end of the Second World War, the requirements for new pistol-machine guns were realized only at the beginning of the 60 of the XX century. Moreover, as already noted in the past material, a trend has arisen to create quite specialized systems of this type of weapon. However, originally, Uzi, and many other images of submachine guns of the post-war period, were born as ... some kind of "universal weapon", that is, the basic idea during their development was the same as in 20 and 30-s those. Designers sought to create a model "for all occasions." And then the same "Uzi" began to "grow smaller", appeared "Scorpion", then "Ingram", while other designers attended to either increasing armor penetration and increased ammunition of their own PP, or their convenience and accuracy of shooting, or tried to solve this problem in a complex .


MP5 in service with the special forces of South Korea.


Mr5: technically difficult but reliable


Among the latter were engineers (Thilo Müller, Manfred Guchring, Georg Seidl, and Helmut Baureter) of the German company Heckler & Koch, which in 1963 took part in the tender of the Ministry of the Interior of Germany for the creation of a special submachine gun for arming the special units of the German police, which were still just being created. The weapon required high accuracy of fire, high rate of fire and small size. Already in 1964, the company created prototypes of a new submachine gun, which first received the NK54 index, where the number "5" denoted the type of weapon, and the number "4" - the ammunition used.

In 1966, the new submachine gun was successfully tested in parts of the Border Guard and German Police, received its current name and was adopted for service. The weapon has been constantly improved and continues to be improved at the present time, and is also being actively sold all over the world to everyone.


The sample MP5 MLI is one of the many options for upgrading the MP5A5 2013 of the year, with a Picatinny rail mounted on the receiver's cover.


However, it is unlikely that the demand for it would have been so significant if it were not for the experience of practical application in a number of military clashes, which demonstrated its high efficiency. Thus, in 1972, the MR 5 was used against terrorists who seized a hotel with Israeli athletes during the Olympics in Munich. In 1977, the German special forces detachment, armed with the 5 MP, was engaged in the liberation of the hijacked Boeing 737 aircraft of the Lufthansa company. In 1980, the British special forces re-used this submachine gun already during the liberation of the Iranian embassy in London. In addition, the 5 MP has been actively used by various US intelligence agencies all this time, and in 1990-2000, it was used by the Pakistani army and police in the fight against the Taliban, both on its territory and in neighboring Afghanistan. All these examples of the combat use of the MR 5 were analyzed, its high combat characteristics were noted, which caused a high demand for it. Today, this submachine gun goes on sale in more than 100 variants, which certainly indicates its high efficiency and commercial popularity.


The main details of the MP5A3 with a telescopic butt. Early model with grooved forearm and steel-cased module case.


Immediately I must say that the submachine gun really turned out to be successful with its creators. Although it fires standard for most Western-made PP ammunition 9 × 19 mm Parabellum, the muzzle energy of its shot is equal to 650 J, which is higher by 20-30% compared to a number of its competitors. And this is not just interest. First of all, these are higher rates of damage to the enemy. Due to the use of new polymeric materials, the design turned out to be rather light, but durable. And being made on high-quality equipment, all of its parts in their totality work very well. The MP5 is compact, although purely visually it does not seem so small, rather the opposite. But this is the opinion of the fighters of special-purpose groups, who have to fight in the city blocks and residential premises with this particular submachine gun, and here its dimensions become a very important factor. If he were too bulky, no one would praise him!


MP5A3 SD - version with integrated silencer. The sound of a shot with his help manages to drown so that it is almost not audible at a distance already in the 30 m.


The versatility of the additional equipment, which can be hung on the MP5, is noted. This is a large set of tactical flashlights, silencers, collimator and optical sights, which greatly expands the possibilities for the application of software MP5. Among its advantages include the phosphating of its metal surfaces, which allows its use in a variety of climatic conditions.

The last of the universal. From MP5 to Spectrum

One of the many options for MP5.


Expensive, cute, cheap, rotten!



The high cost is, perhaps, the main disadvantage of this submachine gun, which was a consequence of all the above advantages. The fact is that the designers used in it a semi-free shutter with roller deceleration, which is already in itself and complicated, and ... expensive. Like the HK G3 automatic rifle bolt, it consists of two parts, with two cylindrical rollers in the front, which are moved apart to the rear of the bolt during its forward movement. That is, the shooting is carried out with the shutter closed, and the trigger on the MP5 is worth the hammer type, and all this is done on it in order to improve the accuracy of shooting, especially if it is fired by single shots. But still, such a design not only complicates the mechanism of this PP, but also significantly, at times, the cost of the weapon itself! In comparison with old models of submachine guns, its cost is several orders higher. And the reason is not only the high cost of modern construction materials needed for production, but also the high cost of labor in Germany, and, accordingly, expensive spare parts and consumables that are necessary for its normal operation. That is why army units, as a rule, do not equip these PPs. It would be very expensive for the military budget.


Scheme of the device MP5.


But there are still some remarks ...


The purely operational notes on the MP5 are as follows: when fired, it throws up quite a bit, which reduces the accuracy of shooting. Any weapon with a roller shutter - and the MP5 is not an exception “does not like” pollution and requires regular cleaning and lubrication with “brand-name” oils. It’s not too easy to reload this submachine gun. To do this, you must first pull back the bolt, and insert the reload knob into the slide delay slot, and only then remove the empty magazine and insert a full one. But this is not all: now the shutter should be removed from the delay by pressing its handle. That is, collectively, this is somewhere 35-45 seconds. And all these "features" are peculiar not only to the MP5, but also to all types of weapons based on the G3 rifle. Nevertheless, professionals put up with all these shortcomings and ... choose MR5 to counter the terrorists.


Italian policemen with MP5.



And this is Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) and here we also see the MP 5. And they are armed with the protection of the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan, the protection of the presidents of Belarus and Ukraine, and many more, many special purpose units around the world.


Such a strange Finnish sample


Well, now we note that there were quite a few attempts to create a “modern” for that time submachine gun possessing high accuracy of shooting. XO NUMX 7 already had a piece of material on the Finnish machine gun “Yati-Matik”, created by the Finnish designer Yali Timari in 2014, and it described in detail how to achieve this goal he changed the entire layout of his weapon: put the bolt on it, sliding inside the bolt carrier at a slight angle, and the pistol grip raised to the level of the barrel. But despite all these tricks, he was not able to achieve any particular advantages over other PPs.


Submachine gun "Yati-Matik", with 1995 year - GG-95 (manufactured by "Golden Gan") with a shop on 40 cartridges. By the way, weapons are set on a platoon when the front handle is opened, which is another of its original features. First, it should be folded forward and then pulled back. So, from the habit, not knowing this "trick" from this submachine gun and you will not shoot! In addition, it is very inconvenient to shoot lying down with such a shop.


The barrel and front sight with protective flaps of the Yati-Matik submachine gun.


"Spectrum": for the needs of the police and the army


Perhaps the most worthy competitor among counterterrorist software for MP5 was Italian Spectrum М4 of SITES company in Turin (the material about it on VO was still 24 December 2011), and it could well be considered a very successful model “ universal submachine gun "for all occasions, and not just to fight terrorists.

Its creator, Roberto Teppa, pondered over the results of investigations of clashes of law enforcement forces with terrorists in the 70 years of the twentieth century and assessed their results. It turned out that the terrorists have an advantage, because the security forces have to remove their weapons from the fuse, then build and only then shoot. Meanwhile, as all this time, the “bad guys” are already firing. Realizing this, he conceived to create a submachine gun, capable of shooting just like revolvers - that is, from simply pressing the trigger, and in addition - to have a capacious but compact store.

And we managed to solve this problem. And their submachine gun turned out even cheaper than the Mr5! And its manufacturability is high: the receiver is stamped, the handles for holding are plastic. The stock is designed so that it folds up. At the same time whatever protrusions with which he can cling to the clothes are missing. Yes, and in size it is small, and therefore comfortable to wear hidden. The shutter is free, but the fire is fired when the shutter is closed, that is, the trigger mechanism is of a hammer type. And it is arranged in the same way as in revolvers with double-triggering trigger. This allows you to wear this PP with a cartridge in the chamber, but in the case of a sudden attack the shooter does not need to waste time sending the cartridge and cocking the weapon.


Submachine gun "Spectrum" M4 without a grenade grip hold.


Sights are very simple and consist of a folding sight, on the 50 and 100 m with the whole U-shaped and front sight in the form of a simple rod.

Another feature of the "Spectrum" was the forced cooling of its trunk. The shutter on it is designed so that when moving back and forth, it drives the air through the casing of the barrel, which allows intensive fire without fear that it will overheat. His shop is also unusual: it is four-row and designed for 50 cartridges. At the same time, it is the same in length as the 30-cartridge from the MP5! By the way, the reloading handle is made in it in the form of two small key-grippers on both sides of the upper part of the receiver, that is, it can be used both on the left and on the right.


Submachine gun "Spectrum" МХNUMX, equipped with a silencer and a podstvolnoy handle.


"Spectrum" turned out quite light (kg 2,8 without ammunition), having a high rate of fire (850 rds / min) and easy to use. In order to attract foreign customers, in addition to the standard sample for the “Parabellum” cartridge, modifications are also offered for the Smith and Wesson cartridges of 10,16-mm and 11,43-mm ACP.

That is, in the 70-80 of the last century, it was the submachine gun that became the main weapon for the fight against terrorists, especially in rather cramped conditions. Nevertheless, a number of samples of this type of weapon still carried in themselves features characteristic of a “universal” weapon, with a general increase in features characteristic of special-purpose weapons!

To be continued ...
66 comments
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  1. +16
    26 May 2019 05: 59
    its value is several orders of magnitude higher immediately

    Information for the author: order is a multiplication by 10, those. two orders - multiply by 100, three orders - multiply by a thousand.
    Several orders can range from 100 to infinity.
    1. +1
      26 May 2019 16: 34
      Journalistic stamp, alas!
  2. +2
    26 May 2019 06: 03
    The article is already good because it contains a lot of lyrics and, accordingly, a lot of letters, in contrast to the works of A.B. Beetle!
    1. +2
      26 May 2019 19: 50
      Respected by all Beetle is an artist. "Any artist can offend ..."

      hi
  3. -15
    26 May 2019 07: 07
    This widely publicized MP-5 could not reach the characteristics of the PPSh, the bullet speed of which reached 500 m / s and from which it was possible to make an aimed shot at 300 meters, and the MP-5 bullet speed was 400 meters, with TT and then higher, although the PCA was created a quarter of a century earlier and its primitive structure and cost are much lower.
    1. +10
      26 May 2019 07: 13
      Stupid Germans did not guess in their MP-5 to use a cartridge from the TT, it is Mauser-7,63, otherwise you would look and catch up to the PCA in terms of characteristics.
    2. +3
      26 May 2019 19: 54
      MP5 did in the interests of special forces to shoot quite short. The article explicitly says this - they wanted impeccable accuracy and a high rate of fire. Both that and another (separately) just and is claimed by special forces in operations with hostages and in cleaning of rooms.

      What are the 300 meters of pistol cartridge? God have mercy ...

      hi
  4. +20
    26 May 2019 07: 48
    "To do this, you must first pull the bolt back, and insert the reloading handle into the slot of the bolt delay, and only then remove the empty magazine and insert the full one. But that's not all: now you should remove the shutter from the delay by pressing on its handle. That is, all together it is about 35-45 seconds. "
    Here, dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, you missed a comma. In 45 seconds, Hussein Bolt runs 100 meters five times. It’s clear that you don’t have practical skills in handling weapons, but even simple logic suggests that no one would ever accept weapons with a reload time of almost a minute.
    1. +3
      26 May 2019 19: 56
      In Estonia, it could well be 35-45 seconds and a beer in between.

      laughing

      Where to rush? There is time. Aega on, küll!
  5. +1
    26 May 2019 09: 31
    Thank you, the cycle continues to delight.
  6. +7
    26 May 2019 10: 18
    Thanks Vyacheslav for the continuation. Hello everyone hi
    MP5A3 SD - option with integrated silencer.
  7. +3
    26 May 2019 10: 33
    Jatimatic-Finnish 9-mm submachine gun designed by Jali Timari. Debuted in 1983 year. Jatimatic was manufactured in very limited quantities (approx. 400 pcs.) The weapon was intended primarily for the police, security forces and crews of armored personnel carriers. It was never adopted by the Finnish defense forces, although a later version of the GG-95 PDW was tested by the FDF in the 1990's; the conclusion of the tests was that the GG-95 was not suitable as a military weapon.
    "Spectrum" turned out to be quite light (2,8 kg without cartridges), with a high rate of fire (850 rds / min) and convenient to use.
    1. +4
      26 May 2019 15: 03
      Sanchez, you again shed balm on the soul, thank you agromic! good Especially for the movie with fin. I once watched another Hollywood nonsense with Stallone, he ran around the walls with this Yati, and he really didn’t understand what was there and how. Now everything is truncated. Senkyu. hi
      1. +4
        26 May 2019 15: 59
        ... balm for the soul

        hi ... - "Cobra" is called bully ... Action movie in "disco" style, from video salons -80s smile
        1. +2
          27 May 2019 01: 17
          Exactly, there he also had the LTC turned on with such a click that it was probably audible for a kilometer. smile
  8. +3
    26 May 2019 12: 42
    "Yati", although it did not gain real practical popularity, was noted however in a number of good-quality action thrillers, including, visited the heroes of Sylvester Stallone (Marion Cobretti), Alain Delon (Dani Pratt) and Chow Yun Fata (Tequila ). But "Spectrum" in wide popular culture is somehow not widespread, even among computers. games I can recall only the special forces-sim "R6. Athena Sword" (2004) and "CoD. BlackOps" (2010).
    From SW. hi
    PS
    "MP" of a couple of versions (with a permanent and telescopic butt with an emphasis on the shoulder, with and without a tactical grip) both held in his hands and fired, but to direct a strong toss / lift of the barrel - with my own modest size and weight - not felt. stop Yes, and if he had such an unpleasant quality, they would widely write about him both in documentary filmmaking and in fiction, and visualize it in every possible way in the cinema and the same virtual entertainment, but this is not observed, and it is unlikely that he would be universally adopted for the fight with terrorists and armed criminals in urban settings, including such legendary counter-terrorist units as the Los Angeles "Platoon D" (LAPD Metro Division SWAT), "Hostage Rescue Group" (FBI HRT), "Special Police Operations Battalion" "(BOPE)," National Gendarmerie Intervention Group "(GIGN), Polish GROM, Special Forces of the Hong Kong Criminal Police, etc.
    PPS
    As a massive army weapon, "MP" is certainly not used, but again it is widespread in all sorts of elite and selected reconnaissance and sabotage units, the same "Kitties" (SEAL Team Six aka now DEVGRU), US ILC intelligence special forces (raiders, MARSOC , TRAP), American and European NATO paratroopers-rescuers and mountain shooters, British SAS, French Foreign Legion (parachute regiment in Corsica, etc.), Taiwanese marines, etc. thousands of them! fellow
  9. +5
    26 May 2019 13: 20
    As always, thanks for the interesting article.

    modifications are also offered for Smith and Wesson cartridges 10,16-mm and 11,43-mm ACP.


    It is a little unusual to read the designation of the popular .40S & W cartridge as 10,16 mm, which is extremely rare, unlike 11,43 mm for the .45 ACP.
  10. +2
    26 May 2019 13: 25
    I matzed the civilian version of the 9x19 MP5 without a fire with a long barrel, a muffler simulator and a butt paddle. It seemed very difficult even in comparison with Kalash.
    1. +3
      26 May 2019 14: 58
      Hello my friend! hi Of course, I myself had no business with him where I got it from, but more than once I met with complaints in the press for its great weight and in comparison with Kalash. On the other hand, more weight - less tossing.
      1. +1
        26 May 2019 16: 35
        Yes, that is right. But in order to shoot single 9x19 "in a carbine" one does not need to pay so much money for a heavy German wunderwaffle.

        If you already have a pistol, then by purchasing a 10 "-16" barrel, a silencer and a frame with a stock and a KPOS Picatinny rail (or any other) you get a weapon with the same properties as the civilian self-loading MP5. And all this together is much cheaper than a pistol + MP5.
      2. +3
        26 May 2019 17: 30
        Between the heaviest version of the MP 5 with a silencer and the AK 74 there is a difference in weight of 100 grams, which do not make a "significant difference". Although people may have fired from this instance.

        Gift option MP5 for the Shah of Iran, made by German gunsmith Erich Bösler. It took three and a half months to make weapons and it took 250 g of pure gold, 164 gemstones and 4,5 kg of ivory
        1. +1
          26 May 2019 20: 04
          The difference is significant in that the PP under the pistol cartridge, by no means, should have weighed as much as the machine under the 7,62x39.

          My expected MP5 weight was at the level of a couple of kilograms, but when I picked it up, I was disappointed. If you need to carry 3-3,5 kilograms of iron, I would not take a weapon under a pistol cartridge.

          That's why I did not buy the civilian MP5 version, but bought the Israeli frame with the KPOS G2 butt for Glock. Got the same wunderwafle, but weighing about two kilograms. Plus there is a silencer and a collimator sight. Plus a magazine with cartridges about 200 grams (I do not use a magazine on 33 cartridges - buggy with feed).
          1. +4
            26 May 2019 20: 26
            It is strange that for a variety of special forces from Australia to Japan, they still have not bought a single Israeli frame under Glock, but they stubbornly carry three kilograms under a pistol cartridge. Paradox?
            1. +1
              26 May 2019 21: 05
              It is strange that for a variety of special forces from Australia to Japan, they still have not bought a single Israeli frame under Glock, but they stubbornly carry three kilograms under a pistol cartridge. Paradox.


              Yes, no paradox.

              So I pay my money and these friends are state.

              laughing

              In Israel, the IDF is dispensed with its frames. And, as you know, Israel is much more often a warring country than Australia and Japan.

              In fairness, an ordinary Glock in such a frame does not shoot bursts. Except Glock 18.

              And the three-kilogram MP5 when shooting bursts is much more stable on the line of sight than any other lightweight PP or the same Glock 18 in the frame.

              However, I have a "turn" of two quick double-tap shots, the bullets of which arrive at the target nearby. Is this accurate enough for a self-loading pistol in a frame at a pistol range of up to 25 meters?

              I think that's accurate enough.

              hi

              By the way, it is the silencer and subsonic cartridges on the Glock wunderwaffle in the frame that give this effect of "practically no recoil".



              1. +2
                26 May 2019 21: 43
                Yes, no paradox.
                I also think that there is no paradox. Specialists have weapons for real combat use and choose the most appropriate for their needs.
                You use weapons for post-shootings and choose weapons accordingly.
                That's the only difference.
                1. +2
                  26 May 2019 21: 46
                  Yes, no paradox.
                  I also think that there is no paradox. Specialists have weapons for real combat use and choose the most appropriate for their needs.
                  You use weapons for post-shootings.
                  That's the only difference.


                  That's right!

                  Only in different countries - in different ways.

                  In Israel, it’s not so, but to say that there are no specialists there, the language does not turn.

                  There, to everything, the Jews still know how to count money.

                  hi
              2. +1
                27 May 2019 01: 27
                And with a melon on a bayonet, finally a gorgeous joke! good Is this "Tsakhal" having fun like that? laughing
                1. +2
                  27 May 2019 06: 55
                  It also seemed to me that it was completely out of place. What can you do to attract interest?

                  Until recently, the IDF paid soldiers for silicone boobs, until they were completely insolent and began to order a bucket for themselves, with which to crawl under the barbed wire - nothing.

                  It would seem boobs and IDF? And yet, yes.
                  1. +2
                    27 May 2019 13: 14
                    One thing doesn’t interfere with the other, the main thing is that colleagues should be satisfied. laughing
              3. 0
                27 May 2019 17: 59
                Quote: Horse, people and soul


                Damn, it seems, like a girl from this video, heals the hair with a shutter. Pros, epta.
                1. 0
                  27 May 2019 18: 02
                  It's impossible. The pistol shutter inside this frame creeps back and forth. At the top left there is a large window so that nothing would interfere with the extraction of the sleeve.
                  1. 0
                    27 May 2019 18: 10
                    the question is not in a specific type of weapon, but in the approach - HOW it is possible, and how it is impossible. If she wasn’t taught the hair to be removed in combat, then both her and her instructors are worthless.
        2. +1
          27 May 2019 01: 33
          Vic, good night! And where did you see about the "significant difference"? There are no such words, and therefore the phrase and meaning is completely different.
          And the shahs and sheikhs and toilets are molded of gold, and contraceptives with rhinestones. laughing Lack of sense of proportion is also one of the vices of man.
  11. +3
    26 May 2019 15: 10
    To be continued ...


    Vyacheslav, my gratitude (as always) for your articles has no boundaries, only, I beg you, do not be delayed with "changing the store". I look forward to the next volley from your personal arsenal. hi

    Your Cat, not only Sea, but also Wet, pours here from us like a bucket. drinks
    1. +1
      26 May 2019 20: 11
      Ahhh ... with us too!
  12. +3
    26 May 2019 15: 52
    Good article.

    Although it fires standard ammunition 9 × 19 mm "Parabellum" standard for most Western PP,


    Now, at least since 2013, for sure, in Germany this ammunition is designated 9x19 mm. "Luger". I saw with my own eyes how such casings are produced.
    1. +2
      26 May 2019 20: 09
      Different manufacturers label differently. I saw just 9x19, I saw 9mm Luger, but the MP5 is unlikely to be loaded with civilian cartridges bought in a gun store, which are "Luger".

      Cartridges go to the military, which we will not meet in the store. These are the NATO ammunition 9mm NATO.
      1. 0
        26 May 2019 21: 34
        Quote: Horse, people and soul
        Different manufacturers label differently. I saw just 9x19, I saw 9mm Luger, but the MP5 is unlikely to be loaded with civilian cartridges bought in a gun store, which are "Luger".

        Cartridges go to the military, which we will not meet in the store. These are the NATO ammunition 9mm NATO.


        I saw these sleeves 9X19 mm. and sleeves for 5,6 assault rifles not in the gun shop, but in the factory where these sleeves are manufactured. They also produce sleeves for hunting rifles from aluminum and medicine bottles from aluminum as well.
        1. +1
          26 May 2019 22: 00
          Check out here how diverse the 9x19 cartridges are and their markings on the bottom. There are both "9x19" and "9 mm Luger" and "9 mm Para" ...

          Added NATO windrose mark on NATO cartridges.

          https://www.municion.org


          Our conversation went somewhat into the wrong steppe, who saw where something.

          9X19 Luger is a cartridge charged according to the specifications of the beginning of the 20 century to pop into the ancient R.08, R.38 and even Browning M35.

          The 9X19 NATO is a very mediocre + P 9x19 cartridge, which, according to the CIP and SAAMI standard, gives much more pressure in the barrel than the classic 9x19 Luger. Therefore, it is impossible to shove it into old pistols.

          Modern western pistols (service models) are certified according to CIP and SAAMI under NATO NATO.

          This is to say that the MP5 loaded with conventional 9x19 Luger cartridges from the hunting store will give a much more modest impact on the target than the same MP5 loaded with NATO military cartridges 9x19.
          1. 0
            27 May 2019 14: 30
            Quote: Horse, people and soul
            Check out here how diverse the 9x19 cartridges are and their markings on the bottom. There are both "9x19" and "9 mm Luger" and "9 mm Para" ...

            Added NATO windrose mark on NATO cartridges.

            https://www.municion.org


            Our conversation went somewhat into the wrong steppe, who saw where something.

            9X19 Luger is a cartridge charged according to the specifications of the beginning of the 20 century to pop into the ancient R.08, R.38 and even Browning M35.

            The 9X19 NATO is a very mediocre + P 9x19 cartridge, which, according to the CIP and SAAMI standard, gives much more pressure in the barrel than the classic 9x19 Luger. Therefore, it is impossible to shove it into old pistols.

            Modern western pistols (service models) are certified according to CIP and SAAMI under NATO NATO.

            This is to say that the MP5 loaded with conventional 9x19 Luger cartridges from the hunting store will give a much more modest impact on the target than the same MP5 loaded with NATO military cartridges 9x19.


            Honestly, at the expense of ammunition in hunting stores, I do not know. There were no such stores in our town. Previously, I was in a nearby town in a hunting store, but there was no time for cartridges. Looking at some guns is simply envious of those who can afford to buy them. Cartridges for hunting rifles are also produced at the factory I mentioned. Caliber or 20 or 24. But these sleeves are made of aluminum. Apparently this is also due to less pressure in the barrel or is it all about the fact that aluminum sleeves are simply cheaper than brass? The equipment is almost the same as for the production of automatic and pistol cartridges. Now I do not have access to the workshop where automatic and pistol cartridges are made. And there, where they make shells for rifles, I can glance without problems, at least our noisy master does not see.
            1. 0
              27 May 2019 18: 05
              Luminium is cheaper, yes.

              hi
  13. +3
    26 May 2019 16: 33
    Konstantin! Bear in mind that I’ve been to the site more than once — once, twice — writing articles takes time, and not a little, three — it’s not interesting to write all the time on PP, at least to me. You have to be distracted ... In addition, they simply ask me to write about something ... and sometimes there is material at hand. Interests are the same!
    1. +2
      27 May 2019 01: 14
      So what am I, I'm nothing, I just hinted for my nostalgia. And I probably read all your articles not only on this page, and I read with pleasure, but this topic takes "soul". hi
      1. +2
        27 May 2019 07: 15
        Well, there are still 5 articles ahead, at least!
        1. +1
          27 May 2019 13: 13
          It warms the soul and inspires hope!
  14. +2
    26 May 2019 16: 34
    Quote: Undecim
    Here, dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, you missed the comma.

    Alas!
  15. +3
    26 May 2019 17: 44
    A couple of my interesting photos about MP5 (in the kurtz version)
    On the first row to compare the scale of AUG, G36 and TT.

    There is no scale on the second, just beauty ...
    1. +4
      26 May 2019 20: 15
      I am strongly opposed to obscene curses when they make unknown crap out of military weapons with inlaid with ivory, gold and Swarovski crystals ...

      Keep me all, and then shazz ... I will break the rules of the forum and swear dirty.

      No.

      Hunting weapons are one thing. Another thing is utilitarian-combat.

      Thpfuuu, barbarism [removed by censorship].
      1. +2
        27 May 2019 01: 09
        Hello and good night! hi Oil sheiks and other nouveau riches adore this bombast. A complete lack of taste and, accordingly, a sense of proportion. I completely agree with you. Once a collector of ancient weapons came up with a name - "Flowers of Evil", which was very suitable for the amazingly made firearms by real Masters of art. But there all the trunks were produced for the XNUMXth century, exclusively. And the machine is in gold, I'm sorry ...
        1. +3
          27 May 2019 04: 14
          hi
          This MP5 just has some gilded details and engraving, it’s not difficult and inexpensive for a gift (in my opinion, this is a gift for the Turkish NSSH). Such things should be beautiful, functional and, if possible, reflect the nature and status of the donor (national, professional, etc.); demonstrate the achievements of the donor country in technology, art, as well as its history. We have with this IMHO is not very ....
          Truly "bombast" for MP5 is an example of the Iranian Shah, if I find it, I'll post it. lol
          1. +2
            27 May 2019 13: 24
            The gift to the shah has already been posted (see above), that's really really ... Such gifts are most likely given to those who are simply "mad with fat", normal men prefer normal weapons. And so yes, a gift for the shah is a work of amazing beauty, but it simply does not belong to the MP5 thresher. Next time they glue the tank over with rhinestones?
            1. +1
              27 May 2019 18: 03
              Quote: Sea Cat
              The next time that they pasted the tank with rhinestones?

              there was already: a limousine tank for the daughter of some sheikh.
              Inside the bar, full-leather interior, and the outside is so white.
              1. 0
                27 May 2019 18: 22
                Dmitry, so then for a daughter, women can decorate a machine gun and, most importantly, Schaub Bulo is not yak at everyone. wink
            2. +3
              27 May 2019 18: 10
              And Sig - does not shy. Such a gun costs 4000 euros.



              Thpfuuu, barbarism [removed by censorship].
              1. +1
                27 May 2019 18: 20
                No, here, as it seems to me, a sense of proportion is still observed, it does not rush into the eyes like sheikh's "trinkets". And the cheeks are even very pretty.
        2. +1
          27 May 2019 18: 12
          Once one collector of ancient weapons came up with a name - "Flowers of Evil", very suitable for the amazingly made firearms by real Masters of art. But there all the trunks were produced for the XNUMXth century.
          By the eighties of the 19th century, the English style of weapons decor was just emerging.

          This is the work of the 20th century - Ken Hunt, a student of Jim Jones and Bill Smith.
          As for the decoration of weapons, the quote is especially for Vlad.
          “Both art and hunting belong to the oldest occupations of man; their roots lie in the beginnings of his being and in both spheres penetrate to mystical and magical depths. ... We can assume that hunting and art, like the Word and the Cause, always went in parallel, hand in hand. ”
          Posted by Walter Koshatsky.
          1. +1
            27 May 2019 18: 16
            Vic, I meant a specific collector by the name of Lipman, he simply did not collect weapons later than VXIII. hi
            1. +2
              27 May 2019 18: 26
              About "flowers of evil" Lipman stole from Charles Baudelaire. And quirks can be any and anyone.
              1. +1
                27 May 2019 18: 31
                And who argues ... request this is in relation to bzik ...
              2. +2
                28 May 2019 01: 20
                ... We can assume that hunting and art, like the Word and the Cause, always went in parallel, hand in hand. ”


                Vic, by the way, just took a closer look. I do not like this thesis and this comparison: it sucked too much blood into itself, and, with all my respect to J.V. Stalin, he also professed this formula, and quite successfully. In parallel, "word and deed" has always been only among frank dictators, this is the first time I hear from you about Koshatsky, but I think, like any intellectual, he would have howled under any dictatorship professing this formula - "word and deed" in the sense that where it has come down to us from the original times, when, in fact, it was formulated. Sorry, but art is, in my opinion, one thing, and torture and the gallows are something else.
                1. +1
                  28 May 2019 01: 53
                  Konstantin, it was extremely unfortunate for me to find out that the social and moral principle that generalizes the universal human moral norm, the moral requirement of fidelity to the word, consisting in the phrase about the unity of word and deed, is associated with completely unrelated objects. Therefore, Austrian art historian of the XIX century Koshatsky operates with universal categories, and not with the horrors that you created in your imagination. Advice directly begs you to read the Soviet-era ethics dictionary.
                  1. +1
                    28 May 2019 15: 24
                    No, I will not read, laziness, and it’s too late, we have to think about eternal. And with this formula, I meant "the word and deed of the sovereign", weren't there such things as a rack?
                    1. +1
                      28 May 2019 15: 37
                      "The word and deed of the sovereign" is a procedure for participating in a political investigation, a signal that information is available and ready to share it. A rack is a daily practice of torture in criminal proceedings by Russian judicial institutions of the XNUMXth century.
                      These are different things. And not related to ethics.
                      But the requirement of unity of word and deed is an ethical norm, which, for example, is constantly ignored by modern politicians.
                      1. +2
                        28 May 2019 15: 47
                        I completely agree with the latter, especially regarding modern politicians.
  16. 0
    1 June 2019 12: 42
    And why not compare at the test site for example chestnut, bison, cedar with their samples. A pom to bring a comparative table. As one or the other showed himself. Let's say accuracy, rate of fire, penetration. Add up all the indicators and compare.
  17. 0
    April 15 2023 17: 26
    That's what the Germans made weapons popular around the world