Military Review

Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary

491
Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary

Tales about "Mongols from Mongolia" were created in the West in order to confuse Russians, cut off and distort history Rus. To forever destroy the memory of "Tartaria" - the Russian-Horde Empire, which was the direct heir of the great northern civilization - Great Scythia.


Russia and the Horde


Contrary to the myth created in the Vatican and supported by all the information and ideological power of the West (including the Westernizers in Russia itself), the "Mongols-Tatars", and before them the Polovtsians, were not representatives of the Mongoloid race. Anthropological studies of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries. show the complete absence of the Mongolian element in Russia. There was no Mongol invasion of Russia. And the Mongol empire never existed (The myth of the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion; Part 2). The invasion itself was, there were battles, storms of cities, robberies, fires, thousands of captives and tribute. There were "labels", contracts, joint campaigns.

To understand who conquered the Rus of the steppe (Polovtsy, Alans) and the Rus of the forest-steppe and forest zone, and before that Central Asia, China, the Caucasus, it is simply necessary to define the people, the ethnocultural, linguistic community that has inhabited Northern Eurasia for thousands of years. From legendary Hyperborea and the land of the Aryans to Great Scythia, Sarmatia and Novgorod-Kievan Rus. In the strip from the Black Sea region to Altai and Sayan and further to the Pacific Ocean, there was no other force, except for the late Rus-Siberians, heirs of the vast and mighty Scythian-Siberian world. This topic (with sources and facts) is disclosed in more detail in the works of N. I. Vasilyeva, Yu. D. Petukhov "Russian Scythia", Yu. D. Petukhov "Secrets of the Ancient Rus", Yu. D. Petukhov "Antiquities of the Rus", etc. .d.

The ancestors of the modern Mongols were then at a low level of development (shepherds, hunters), approximately like the North American tribes of the Indians. They had neither the military, nor the economic, nor the spiritual and cultural potential to make a number of large-scale campaigns and create a continental empire. Only hundreds of clans of Rus, united by one language, thousands of years of spiritual traditions, including the military, an appropriate economic base (in particular, developed metallurgy), possessed such a potential. The real "Mongols" were the Rus, fair-haired light-eyed warriors in many generations. Hence the legends about the fair-haired blue-eyed Genghis Khan, the myths about the distant ancestors of the present peoples of Asia - tall, fair-haired giants.

It was the Rus of the late Scythian-Siberian world that created the great "Mongol" empire, the "Tartaria" of European sources. It included the Polovtsian steppe, Ryazan, Vladimir, Novgorod, Kiev, Chernigov and Galician Rus. No Mongols. Caucasians-Rus and Caucasoids-Tatars, who not so long ago isolated themselves from the general cultural and linguistic community and did not lose the characteristics common to the northern tradition. Tales about the "Mongols from Mongolia" were created in the West in order to confuse the Russians, cut off and distort the history of Russia. To forever destroy the memory of "Tartaria" - the Russian-Horde Empire, which was the direct heir of the great northern civilization - Great Scythia. To erase the Rus-Russians from the history of the Ancient World.


Battle on the Vozha River in 1378. Source: Miniature from the Observational Codex of the XNUMXth century. Miniatures of historical sources show that the battles were fought by representatives of the white race (Caucasians)

Degradation of the Horde Empire and the emergence of a new Russian center


Around the time of Dmitry Donskoy, the Horde (Rod) began to degenerate and degenerate. This was caused by the total Islamization and Arabization of the northern state. It was promoted by a powerful flow into the Golden (White) Horde of the Arabs. The top of the Horde was Islamized, the part that resisted was destroyed. Culture has undergone Arabization. This was the root cause of the turmoil and the collapse of the mighty empire. And the history of the Eurasian empire has come down to us in the "crooked mirrors" of Western and Muslim sources.

If we realize that in the late Middle Ages, as well as in the early and ancient times, the entire continental part of Northern Eurasia, “Great Tartary” from the Dnieper, Don and Volga to Siberia was inhabited by the Rus, direct descendants of the Aryan-Scythian-Sarmatians, then it is clear why in Western Europe the concepts "Russia" and "Tartary" meant the same thing. As before, the Greek (Byzantine) chroniclers identified the Rus with the "Taurus" and "Scythians", and Russia with Scythia. For a long time Russia on European maps was designated as "Tartaria", Russians were called "White Tatars". Cossacks, that is, the military estate of the steppe regions of Russia, back in the XNUMXth century. were called "Tatars". The "Cossacks" were ordinary members of the Horde.

Thus, most of the subjects of the Horde were Rus (Alan Rus, Polovtsian Rus, Siberian Rus, Ryazan Rus, Muscovite Rus, etc.). All the wars of this period in the Horde are internal wars, strife. Like a fight between Moscow and Ryazan, Tver and Novgorod. The Russians fought, killed, plundered, and took away Russians. No "Mongols". Tatars, Tatars-Bulgars (Volgars), however, were a genus close to the Rus, Caucasians. Therefore, the Horde, "Tatar" nobility, warriors easily switched to the service of the Russian and Russian-Lithuanian princes. They entered into marriage unions, became part of the elite of the Russian state. In particular, one third (or even half) of the aristocracy of Moscow consisted of "Tatars". No "Mongolian" signs. " The Horde easily entered the new northern empire, the center of which was Moscow.

The birth of a new Eurasian empire was caused by strong pressure from foreign, southern traditions. The nobility of the Horde converted to Islam. This caused a sharp rejection of the main population of the horde-clans. They still continued to be faithful to the ancient faith. Thus, in the "Tale of the Mamayev Battle", a Russian literary monument of the XNUMXth century, the gods worshiped by the "Tatars" are mentioned. Among them are Perun, Khors and Rekliy. The mysterious "Reklius" is most likely the hero of the Rus mythology, who became a god for the Tavro Scythians - Hercules. This name comes from the Russian Yaro-Slav - Herakleos ("kleos" - "glory"), which in related languages ​​sounds like Irakl, Irakli. The cult of Hercules-Heraclius had strong positions in Taurida and the Northern Black Sea region.

That is, at the end of the XIV century, Islam was not the dominant religion in the Horde. The degradation of the Horde (Rod) led to the rise of a new political center of the Rus - Moscow. Another possible center for the unification of all Russian lands was the Great Lithuanian and Russian principality, with the state Russian language, the predominance of Russian lands and the Russian population. However, the gradual Westernization and Catholicization deprived the Grand Duchy of the chance to become the center of the unity of the Russian lands. The Horde plunged into turmoil and degraded due to Islamization and Arabization. Gradually the elite of the Horde lost the support of the people. Simple warriors-Cossacks and many representatives of the nobility reached out to Moscow, Ryazan, Lithuania. Russian Christianity, which absorbed much of the ancient Russian faith (paganism), became Orthodoxy - "the glory of Pravi-Pravda", was much closer to the ordinary Horde-Cossacks than Islam.

As a result, the Kulikovo field, when Dmitry Ivanovich defeated the hordes of Mamai, showed that a new center of gravity had emerged for all Russians, including the Cossack Horde. The center that inherited the thousand-year traditions of northern civilization. For a century and a half, this center was able to restore the main core of the Eurasian empire. Tsar Ivan the Terrible united most of the lands of Great Scythia - Great Tartary. The empire was rebuilt and again became a counterweight to the West. Gradually, Russia became an empire again, which stretched from the Baltic, Carpathians and the Black Sea to Mongolia and further, to the Pacific Ocean.
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
Articles from this series:
Secrets of ancient Rus

How the Russians converted to Islam
The Mystery of Russian Khazaria
"Slavic Atlantis" in Central Europe
Arsa-Artania - the ancient power of the Rus
The myth of the Tatar-Mongol yoke
There were no Russians? The mystery of the origin of the Russian people
The roads of the gods. Why Russians Crossed Out From Ancient History
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 11 New
    11
    An interesting topic for me.
    Tales about the "Mongols from Mongolia" were created in the West in order to confuse the Russians, cut off and distort the history of Russia.

    There is such a thing ... judging by how the memory of Soviet soldiers is being etched out in the West ... about the Red Army ... about the USSR, this version has the right to exist.
    It always amazed me how many thousands of Mongol army, having passed many kilometers from Mongolia to Russia, did not leave no matter how significant artifacts of their campaign ... miracles.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 13 New
      -11 qualifying.
      everything is much more complicated there.
      that country that was called Tartary used to reach at least the Pyrenees.
      Italy was definitely part of it.
      and chopped off the territory from her piece by piece. first the Pyrenees, then Galia, then Italy, then Germany, then to Novgorod, and after the 13th century they cut off to the Urals.
      and then completely erased from history.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 21 New
        +9
        But what about the Byzantine Empire, Roman Empire, Turkish Port, etc.?
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 27 New
          -11 qualifying.
          these are also intermediate lost territories of the same Tartary, although earlier it was called Asia, the country of the aces, well, like the country of the Russians / Russians Russia / Russ-ia, the country of the Norwegians (Norwegians) Norway, the country of the Angles - England, among the Germans Germany, and the Spaniards Spain and so on.
          By the way, Schliemann did not find Troy, and there was no need to look for her, this is the current Istanbul, the Roman Empire was in Italy, and Porta, well, I already wrote where it is. in place of the Byzantine.
          By the way, the Greeks are not fucking Indo-Europeans, this is the lost tribe of Israel, on behalf of the god El, the Greeks and Hellas went. You may not believe me, but I can’t forbid you to use Google and see the genetic map of both Greece and haplogroup J2
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 16 October 2020 19: 10 New
            +7
            Quote: Dodikson
            these are also intermediate lost territories of the same Tartary, although earlier it was called Asia, the country of the Aesir

            Country of Ases, you say? Those. Asgard? The same Asgard, in which Valhalla is located, into which all the most frostbitten Vikings fell to thump and disgrace there until the traditional Russian Ragnarok comes, meaningless and merciless? Did I understand you correctly?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 17 October 2020 11: 10 New
              +1
              no, the Scandinavians have nothing to do with the Ases.
              they already have echoes of ancient beliefs, moreover, there is an opinion that the current Scandinavians went from the Iranian Turanians. went through the Crimea and reached Scandinavia, and Odin was just one of the tribal leaders.
              as for Asgard, read Osendowski. he brought Asgard to the Gobi (from memory he somehow deduced it from peach trees, but I don’t remember exactly reading it more than 20 years ago)
              and the Gobi desert became just because of Ragnarok.
        2. cniza
          cniza 16 October 2020 12: 34 New
          -5
          If you take the cards that the Anglo-Saxons and the Vatican hide from everyone, then they all fit there without any problems ...
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 16 October 2020 14: 46 New
            +6
            Quote: cniza
            If you take the cards that the Anglo-Saxons and the Vatican hide from everyone, then they all fit there without any problems ...

            To begin with, the Vatican hides nothing from anyone. Any historian who wrote there a sane appeal has the opportunity to work even in the secret section. The descriptions of her documents are also known. The problem is that the documents there are in Middle English, Ancient Greek, Medieval Latin and even Medieval Armenian. And you have to pay for it, and then pay for living in Rome and ... for pizza. All this is expensive, and no one here really knows the ancient languages. That's all. Therefore, you can write and hide and hide ... one turnip!
            1. Filxnumx
              Filxnumx 16 October 2020 20: 19 New
              -4
              The Vatican hides nothing from anyone.

              you have to pay for it, and then pay for accommodation in Rome and ... for pizza.

              That is, if you beat your spouse (theoretically), and the court (also theoretically, well, like, we have a free court, you have no underage children, and your spouse is used to living on a grand scale) instead of prohibiting you from approaching her closer than 20 m a fine of 20 Lyams (not even greenery) for the same act, and even the same fine for an attempt to communicate, will this still remain freedom for you? Provided that you are not "the owner of Chukotka", but a simple average entrepreneur.
              Do you even imagine the difference between physical coercion and coercion using economic levers?
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 16 October 2020 20: 24 New
                +3
                Didn't even understand what this is about and what are such examples? It is not my fault that we have a poor country to pay scientists properly, and rich people are not interested in the Vatican archive.
            2. Dodikson
              Dodikson 17 October 2020 11: 15 New
              +4
              lolche? is the Vatican hiding nothing?
              maybe they don't even go to the toilet?
              if we lie then lie to the fullest.
              moreover, they not only hide. they also destroy, but only keep especially valuable specimens.
              Or do you not know how the Inquisition cut out "witches" who carried pre-Christian knowledge? how was the material on the Cathars destroyed? how did you destroy everything of value from ideological sources?
              how even a little over a century ago he tried to destroy Volansky's works?
              yes the Vatican has been falsifying history for almost 2 thousand years.
              1. mihail_mihail0620
                mihail_mihail0620 18 October 2020 19: 45 New
                -1
                Quote: Dodikson
                yes the Vatican has been falsifying history for almost 2 thousand years.

                The Vatican was founded in 1929. You probably meant Christianity.
                Personally, I believe that it all started when Rabbi Paul divorced the fisherman Peter
        3. Doliva63
          Doliva63 17 October 2020 18: 45 New
          -1
          Quote: The same Lech
          But what about the Byzantine Empire, Roman Empire, Turkish Port, etc.?

          Was there such an empire - the Turkish Port? belay
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2020 14: 46 New
            +1
            You are right colleague - Ottoman Porta!
            For Nyuchronolozhtsy - the first word "Ottoman" has nothing to do with the atamans - the Cossacks!
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 19 October 2020 19: 37 New
              0
              Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
              You are right colleague - Ottoman Porta!
              For Nyuchronolozhtsy - the first word "Ottoman" has nothing to do with the atamans - the Cossacks!

              But have mercy, dear fellow countryman, Porta - Ottoman or not - is not an empire. The port was called, if sclerosis does not lie, the "cabinet of ministers" of the Ottoman Empire, nothing more. But drunk I can get it wrong, of course laughing drinks
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 19 October 2020 20: 25 New
                +3
                Even worse, the cabinet of ministers was called a sofa! I am not kidding!!!
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 20 October 2020 09: 18 New
                  +3
                  When you pick up the Russian-Arabic phrasebook, you understand that the words hazelnut, sudjuk and chest are already familiar to you.
                2. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 21 October 2020 19: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Even worse, the cabinet of ministers was called a sofa! I am not kidding!!!

                  "Porta (also Ottoman Porta, Sublime Porta, High Porta) is the name adopted in the history of diplomacy and international relations for the government (office of the grand vizier and divan) of the Ottoman Empire."
                  This is from Wiki. I think you can more or less trust her here. laughing So my sclerosis was not far from the truth drinks
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 21 October 2020 20: 59 New
                    +1
                    Naturally! We play with you with concepts and conventional names!
                    It's like in everyday life we ​​put several meanings into the word "Kremlin" and at different levels of the conceptual apparatus. So it is in our case. Although with the Ottoman Empire, everything is not less interesting. So from the Arabic name of the founder of the state "Osman" is translated "chiropractor", "snake". But if you ask a Turk to explain, he will convince that the meaning of this word is "heavenly", "high". So such collisions. If, in simple terms, “sofa” is advice, “port” is an office. The rest is political self-irony. In the 18-19 centuries it is used as a synonym for the Ottoman state.
                    Yours!
                    1. Doliva63
                      Doliva63 22 October 2020 18: 16 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Naturally! We play with you with concepts and conventional names!
                      It's like in everyday life we ​​put several meanings into the word "Kremlin" and at different levels of the conceptual apparatus. So it is in our case. Although with the Ottoman Empire, everything is not less interesting. So from the Arabic name of the founder of the state "Osman" is translated "chiropractor", "snake". But if you ask a Turk to explain, he will convince that the meaning of this word is "heavenly", "high". So such collisions. If, in simple terms, “sofa” is advice, “port” is an office. The rest is political self-irony. In the 18-19 centuries it is used as a synonym for the Ottoman state.
                      Yours!

                      However, I agree with you! hi
        4. VO3A
          VO3A 20 October 2020 02: 55 New
          -1
          The Roman Empire was founded by our ancestors, all the early documents of its founders are written in the Old Slavonic script ... The author very superficially outlined this version of the story with big mistakes ... He wrote that there is no Mongolian trace, but that everyone now living in Europe and not only people have Slavic roots, he forgot ..
          It was the Rus of the late Scythian-Siberian world that created the great "Mongol" empire,

          Moguls, these are not Mongols .... Moguls tartars - this means: great tartars, or mighty ones ... No need to mold the adjective "Mongolian" instead of "Mogul" ...
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 26 October 2020 20: 53 New
            0
            Well, yes, discoveries, will you give a link to Roman documents in Old Church Slavonic? if you are talking about the Etruscans, then do not strain to the Slavic, their language has nothing to do. And Mogul turturia is strong wassat ... Have fun, thanks
      2. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth 16 October 2020 13: 33 New
        +4
        Damn, but they said that the country was great ... What is great about the fact that a bunch of savages chopped off 3/4 of its territories, and then blotted out all the papers without resistance?
        No, I like historians with the official version more. Their Rus was stronger and more dignified.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 36 New
          -2
          1) was not chopped off by a bunch of savages, and the purposeful expansion of the entire Western world. our country experienced the last such in scale in 1941
          2) the Vatican cut it out of history, which also ruled our history under the Romanovs.
          remind about Lomonosov and a broken German nose?
          3) search for information about what the Jesuits were doing in China in the 13th century.
          1. forty-eighth
            forty-eighth 16 October 2020 13: 45 New
            10
            1) Well, they were savages: they poured slop right out of the window, did not wash for years, suffered from epidemics, they were all illiterate. And each other tirelessly fought still.
            2) The Vatican was like a great state in those days. Or just rich. Once he elevated his proteges the Romanovs to the throne.
            I don't know anything about Lomonosov and a broken nose.
            3) I will look.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 58 New
              -1
              1) if you are talking about the Europeans, then they poured into the washed Arabs and took Palestine and then for centuries kept the washed colonies and milked them
              1a) Tartary was not taken by the Europeans, but by the kakly of that time, who changed their faith and mentality and followed the west against the east. you see the same situation now when you read about Ukraine. only in those days the processing was stronger. even the Serbs were Christianized and went against their own. By the way, the Serbs were the only ones who managed to return to their fold after Christianity had worked a little. that's why Serbs love Russians. and Croats hate.
              2-3) The Vatican has always been a great state, even now it means much more than you think. he is the creator of Russophobia and supports it constantly, the rest is a stupid tool. it was the Vatican who made the Slavs, Croats and Poles, Russophobes who hate their own people. and it was the Vatican who made the Russophobes and the Bolts, who, together with the Russian centuries, fought against the Germans.
              moreover, the Vatican reached not only Russia. he also reached China and Japan.
              The Vatican has spanned all of Europe for centuries.
              Have you ever heard of Opus Dei? and yet it exists even now.
              1. Local from the Volga
                Local from the Volga 20 October 2020 01: 47 New
                0
                Did the child read Brown or listened to Laibach ?! founded in 1928!
                1. IgorIP
                  IgorIP 22 October 2020 15: 58 New
                  0
                  Well, firstly, not in 1928, but in 1929) and secondly: didn't the Papal States existed for more than 1000 years before that?
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 16 October 2020 14: 54 New
            +4
            I understood everything from the author did not understand how you can cut something out of history? There are burials, there are finds, there are documents ... in a huge volume. It is impossible to forge such volumes. And most importantly why? People do not need history at all - I just wrote about it in relation to other material. Here you work, pay taxes, utilities, buy goods, make children ... New consumers. How does the knowledge that there was the Battle of the Ice affect all this? No way! How does the knowledge that Americans do not know (many) who won WWII affect the amount of your salary? They still live better than you! Also the Japanese ... History is ... fairy tales for adults! There is for children (and they can do without them), and there is for adults, and they too ... perfectly manage without them. But it's more interesting with them. That's all! So no one will spend a lot of money to fake or distort something. And so the state has all the levers to make you pay taxes and the soldier to become a hero. Think and you will understand. And if you don't understand, you will still pay, ha-ha.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 17 October 2020 11: 24 New
              0
              do not breed demagoguery, answer questions
              1) why the Persians turned black in less than a hundred years of Arab conquests and new peoples appeared (Tajiks, for example) and why the Slavs did not have narrow eyes for 300 years of yoke.
              2) have the Smithsonian been caught destroying archaeological artifacts that their historians did not like?
              3) in South America, according to the official history, the Reds lived and then the White ones appeared after Columbus. Do you support this?
              4) can you show how you write "There are burials, there are finds, there are documents" where, after all, are the remains of a Mongol on our territory?
              5) did the Russians come out of nowhere? or did they have a parental people from which they descended?
              6) why in the pictures the then artists did not confuse the Russians with the Swedes of the same Europeans, and confused them with the yellow and narrow-eyed Mongols?
              7) on the territory of Siberia they found a lot of the cult of Caucasians, for what reason do the current types of historians say that they are not Untermensch at full value and could not create their own state?
              many questions, it is. Th first came to mind.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 17 October 2020 15: 39 New
                0
                It has been scientifically proven that one .... (common word forbidden in VO, but popular among the people, for example, Ivan -). can ask more questions than 100 wise men to answer!
            2. segamegament
              segamegament 17 October 2020 18: 28 New
              +4
              And you are funny!))) How can you cut out of history? 1945: The main role in the victory over fascism was assigned to the USSR (85%) by the population and government of the United States, Great Britain and the Storage.
              2002: These same countries assign the main role in the victory over fascism to the USA. Is there anything else to explain? But 70 years have passed, eyewitnesses are still alive, what kind of story can we talk about, winners always rewrite it, and we were often losers, hence our place in history ...
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 26 October 2020 21: 01 New
                0
                yah? Straight like this and write the union has nothing to do with it? I live in the USA for a couple of months every year. Either you're lying, or you've seen enough of the box. Aha straight docks are being destroyed by the military laughing
            3. Vik ganz
              Vik ganz 23 October 2020 02: 23 New
              0
              Yes, you are not the Caliber that flies. And why do the Ukrainians come up with the idea that they dug the Black Sea? Why do they want to tell everyone that Kiev was "the center of the universe"? And they spend a lot of money only on textbooks in which these nonsense (and much, much more) are presented.
              Why do the Baltic republics (former) come up with a great story for themselves? And several countries literally "fight" for Columbus
              (and that he was born in their state)?
              And the struggle for Nagorno-Karabakh, whose is it - Azerbaijani or Armenian?
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 26 October 2020 21: 05 New
                0
                Well, Karabakh is clear Azerbaijani, the Russoarians will be worse than proto-ukrov, and Columbus sailed with the money of the Spanish Queen Isabella, and no one argues with this, what they are thinking up there in the Baltic States, I don't know, but this suggests that they don't shout too much about it
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Navel
            Navel 20 October 2020 10: 44 New
            0
            The ancient history of Russia in three verses:
      3. astepanov
        astepanov 16 October 2020 15: 50 New
        +7
        The case of Thomas the Chronoloader lives and smells. The saying "Russia is the homeland of elephants" unambiguously confirms the entry of India and Africa into the Great Tartary.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 16 October 2020 18: 47 New
          +7
          The whole Earth was one Great Tartary.
          But the enemies of the Earth want to erase this undeniable fact from
          collective memory of humanity. am
          The TRUTH will break out from Samsonov, and the peoples will wake up, and the poles of the Earth will change!
          Truly I say ... wassat
          1. astepanov
            astepanov 16 October 2020 19: 01 New
            +5
            But one should not be silent about the fact that the Great Tartars once inhabited the Moon, and the Moon, and even the Sun. As Ershov wrote, "Hello, Month Month, I'm Ivanushka Petrovich!" Enemies threw spots on the Sun, and the Moon was subjected to an asteroid attack in order to destroy artifacts testifying to our glorious past. And there is also a proverb - "What for a goat banana", confirming that before all sorts of Indies, Thais and Zimbabs were ours.
            And it wasn't the Ukrainians who dug the Black Sea - we ourselves, with these hands ...
            1. Alexander Igolnikov
              Alexander Igolnikov 17 October 2020 09: 42 New
              +4
              Now is the time of false history, on YouTube one Kazakh in comments stubbornly insists that the Kazakhs founded Moscow, restrained the expansion of Catholics to Russia and stopped the Germans, as well as in Ukraine and other post-Swedish states
              1. Local from the Volga
                Local from the Volga 20 October 2020 01: 50 New
                0
                Sorry! not stubborn, but stubborn!)
            2. VO3A
              VO3A 20 October 2020 03: 05 New
              -1
              No need to act like a fool, read the history of the Slavs and their ancestors, everything is written there and where they came from, too, and how old this Earth civilization is. That's just what it is in a row ... At least 4th ... Life on Earth has been bent at least 3 times ... And these are not aliens ...
              1. Icelord
                Icelord 26 October 2020 21: 10 New
                -1
                and where to read something, give a link, current to historical sources, and not Novokhronolozhtsev
          2. Alex 1970
            Alex 1970 17 October 2020 14: 52 New
            +1
            and the earth will hit the celestial axis!
          3. VO3A
            VO3A 20 October 2020 02: 59 New
            -1
            Here I completely agree with you, you cannot argue with genetics and its modern methods! It is a fact what you said ....
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 26 October 2020 21: 11 New
              -1
              You graduated from school, dear, you rarely meet such ignoramuses
              1. VO3A
                VO3A 26 October 2020 21: 15 New
                0
                For UCHA! Everything with honors, and the school, and the university and so far KTH ... You will find the links yourself, you will not sweat ...
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 26 October 2020 22: 20 New
                  0
                  Also a boor, you and I, dear brother, did not drink, and did not graze pigs together. I don't need to poke. You will give a link, al no?
                  1. VO3A
                    VO3A 27 October 2020 00: 58 New
                    0
                    you rarely meet such ignoramuses

                    Are you soft and fluffy? Look at yourself ...
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 27 October 2020 06: 37 New
                      0
                      It is clear, there will be no links
        2. ANB
          ANB 16 October 2020 21: 49 New
          +4
          No, it's more like Bushkov's books. Old enough already. In the new Bushkov has already admitted his mistakes.
      4. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 18 October 2020 08: 32 New
        0
        The Ukrov empire was also deleted.
        Nowhere in the history books is it written who actually dug the Black Sea.
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 12: 25 New
      12
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      An interesting topic for me.

      Are you fond of alternative history?
      There is and there was no Tartary, this is from the same opera that the ancient Ukrainians dug up the Black Sea, or that Yushchenko is a descendant of Genghis Khan.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvvVqTawREA Хотя бы здесь посмотрите, а вообще полно серьезных работ о монгольском нашествии.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 30 New
        +2
        Are you fond of alternative history?

        No smile trying to find flaws in the official history ... it is always nice to find the cornerstone on which it stands and pull it out into God's Light ... the official history does not explain many white spots in our history.
        And serious work about the Mongol invasion is just an interpretation of events as one or another scientist sees them. hi
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 12: 41 New
          14
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          many blank spots in our history

          Yes, there are many "white spots" in history, but no one has canceled such discipline as "Source Studies". I suspect that many of the fans of Fomenko and other obscurantists present on the site have not even heard of the existence of such a discipline.
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 46 New
            -9
            do not tell me. there in your source studies what they write about the americans?
            Mongoloids went there for thousands of years, who turned red and their mustache and beard stopped growing from the impact of a meteorite in their crown? Or there first lived white people and then somehow got there people who differed from all other people in that they never had hair on their faces?
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 12: 56 New
              12
              Quote: Dodikson
              do not tell me. there in your source studies what they write about the americans?
              Mongoloids went there for thousands of years, who turned red and their mustache and beard stopped growing from the impact of a meteorite in their crown? Or there first lived white people and then somehow got there people who differed from all other people in that they never had hair on their faces?

              Dear Dodik, could you please express your thoughts more clearly? It is difficult for me to understand your "stream of consciousness".
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 05 New
                -5
                for those who find the Russian language too difficult - who were the first inhabitants of America? white or red?
                1. Beringovsky
                  Beringovsky 16 October 2020 13: 31 New
                  +8
                  Quote: Dodikson
                  who were the first inhabitants of america? white or red?

                  Neither one nor the other. The first were the anarchists.
                  1. Dodikson
                    Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 36 New
                    -3
                    What color were they? about blue is not necessary.
                2. BAI
                  BAI 16 October 2020 19: 11 New
                  +2
                  who were the first inhabitants of america? white or red?

                  We open the Bible and immediately see the answer - white Jews, and 2 times: first from Adam, then from Noah.
              2. parusnik
                parusnik 16 October 2020 13: 55 New
                13
                aleksejkabanets (Alexey)... I read the comments. I came to the conclusion that they were written by the hero of V. Shukshin's story, "Cut", the one who posed the problem of "shamanism" to the doctor of philosophy. In principle, there is an article on the same problem. laughing
            2. Icelord
              Icelord 16 October 2020 22: 50 New
              +1
              And they write different things, it was a long time ago, either the Asians went from Beringia, or Europeoids through Greenland. Read, a lot has been written, it's not all the same for you to write nonsense about turturia
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 18 October 2020 12: 40 New
                0
                then why in South America the mummies of white people are older than the Indians?
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 42 New
                  0
                  This is bullshit. Just bullshit
                  1. Dodikson
                    Dodikson 18 October 2020 12: 46 New
                    0
                    Well, yes, the excavations are garbage, museum exhibits are garbage, but if some drug addict said that there were Mongols, and did not give any evidence, you just have to take their word for it, then this is no longer garbage.
                    yes it is clear that you do not care about history and truth. you just want to believe in the Mongols, and do not care about all the evidence that you will be given.
                    that's why the mummies of white people, with beards (I'll tell you a secret, the Indians didn't have beards and mustaches. They don't grow.) are bullshit for you, because they violate your view of the world.
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 57 New
                      0
                      Well Duc, where are we sirim. Enough. Google the clovis theory, beringia and stop writing bullshit
          2. Same lech
            Same lech 16 October 2020 13: 27 New
            -6
            Source study is a science associated with culture in the broad sense of the word, that is, with everything that is created by man.

            Ancillary discipline ... here you can still attract a lot ... but this, for example, will not solve the riddle of the last minutes of Yermak's life and his appearance ... no one knows what he looked like ... there are no reliable images of his image.
            For example, it is not known where Genghis Khan is buried and how he looked ... there are a lot of such questions in history.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 13: 34 New
              +9
              Quote: The same LYOKHA
              but this, for example, will not solve the riddle of the last minutes of Yermak's life and his appearance ..

              Here only a time machine will help, and the grave of Genghis Khan may be found someday.
          3. Tamparu
            Tamparu 16 October 2020 13: 28 New
            +4
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            many blank spots in our history

            Yes, there are many "white spots" in history, but no one has canceled such discipline as "Source Studies". I suspect that many of the fans of Fomenko and other obscurantists present on the site have not even heard of the existence of such a discipline.

            What does Fomenko have to do with it? By the way, nothing beats the method of hiding the truth, how to dilute it with an obvious lie. And then everyone will immediately decide that EVERYTHING is a LIE! ...
            Something like this, hi
          4. parusnik
            parusnik 16 October 2020 13: 52 New
            +9
            Yes, there are many "blank spots" in history, but such discipline as "Source Studies"
            ... Right there the "techies" basically, how do they know that this subject is being studied in the first year of the Faculty of History? Although it should be noted, I was told about the sources back in school in the 4th grade. That was the beginning of my first lesson. But it was not true for a long time, in the totalitarian Soviet school. smile
            1. Same lech
              Same lech 16 October 2020 13: 57 New
              -1
              There are also "techies" in the main, how do they know that this subject is being studied in the first year of the Faculty of History?

              A technician is not a friend to the humanities ... smile forever humanitarians powder the brains of the representatives of the exact sciences with their hypotheses and guesses.
            2. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 14: 10 New
              14
              Quote: parusnik
              in the totalitarian Soviet school.

              How she is missing now.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 16 October 2020 14: 58 New
                +5
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                How she is missing now.

                I never liked her. But ... you read this and you will against your will say, but right!
          5. Lannan Shi
            Lannan Shi 16 October 2020 14: 36 New
            +7
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            however, no one canceled such a discipline as "Source Study".

            The problem is that, even if not all, but very many are from "sources", that is exactly what "sources" are. Quotes from them can only be removed by a complete fanatic. Really a fanatic, on the verge of mental breakdown.
            For example, the same Mongols. More than once or twice I have analyzed the favorite "source" of official historians on them. Namely carpini. From what can be checked now, geography, climate, and even the laws of physics mlyn .... Lies. From start to finish. Even physical laws do not correspond to our planet. But damn the source. Reliable. They say carpini lied about geography and physics, but everything else is the truth in the first instance. And opponents of official history ... They are usually friends with the natural sciences. And after reading the next lying fable, they will take the calculator, count, and ... And the only thing left for the officials is to show this - fool
            That's the problem. That, if not all, then most of the official sources, centuries that way until the 17th and 18th, if you do not pray for them like a Bible, namely study, give the impression of being fakes. And frankly obscenely cooked up. And the history of their introduction as sources, in "science" ... And at all a fairy tale. Take the same secret legend for example. There is no original. There is no original translation. And there is not even a copy of the original translation. there is mid-nineteenth-century print edition... Collection of historical essays, read epics and myths. But yes ... "Trusted Source". And this despite the fact that the historians themselves say that with each dynasty, the whole history of China was rewritten anew. Quite a formal correspondence for myself. With the confiscation and destruction of the texts, the policy of the party does not correspond. Those. this is the legend at least twice reworked as the customer ordered. But yes. A source. The most reliable and undeniable. And all those who disagree with him, betray anathema and drag them to the stake. And please tell me. With this approach .... Can the official history be taken seriously?
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 15: 11 New
              +6
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              The problem is that, even if not all, but very many of the "sources" ...

              I agree with you, none of the TAP lists, for example, can be called an unequivocally reliable source. However, there are archaeological sources, there are other written sources of that time, and historians try to draw conclusions "by the sum of circumstantial evidence." And these are always just hypotheses, which in most cases cannot be unequivocally proven, as well as refuted. On the card of "Tartary", in my opinion, there is convincing evidence that it is a later forgery.
              1. Lannan Shi
                Lannan Shi 16 October 2020 15: 42 New
                +6
                Quote: aleksejkabanets
                On the map of "Tartaria", in my opinion, there is convincing evidence that it is a later forgery.

                And I am not a supporter of ideas about Tartaria. lol Alternatives are also not saints. And if for me, then their main problem is that they start something very right. But they cannot stop in time, until the moment - and then Ostap suffered. yes
                1. Kwas
                  Kwas 17 October 2020 12: 44 New
                  0
                  Quote: Lannan Shi
                  the problem is that they start very well. But they cannot stop in time, until the moment - and then Ostap suffered.

                  But you know, this is a general human problem. Now the person has understood something, so he wants this knowledge to be correct, and for the sake of this he will not wind up anything. And if he discovered something new he certainly wants to develop a theory, and preferably a "general theory of everything"! To become "the greatest scientist of all times and peoples", navrenye!
            2. andrew42
              andrew42 16 October 2020 18: 34 New
              +6
              Very correctly noted about the "sources". In historical science all the time, century after century, one approach is the Source, and this, no-no, cannot be the Source, because it cannot be. I see here, I don't see there. And I see only what I want.
            3. Icelord
              Icelord 16 October 2020 22: 57 New
              +5
              What does Carpini have to do with it, is he one source? And the Arab sources about the Mongols, and the Persian, and Central Asian, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Byzantine, All the omnipotent Vatican Jewish Masons forged? Oh gods ...
              1. Lannan Shi
                Lannan Shi 17 October 2020 13: 09 New
                +3
                Quote: Icelord
                And Arab sources about the Mongols, and Persian, and Central Asian, Chinese,

                I have already spoken about the Chinese. Chinese sources .... No them. Absolutely not. Everything that belongs to the past dynasties was processed. Quite officially. In order to justify the rights of the new dynasty. This is even spelled out in textbooks on the history of China. Quite official tutorials. It's not my fault that the Chukchi, oh sorry, that off the historian is not a reader, but a writer? By the way. Books in China are burning even now, when it lacks even a hint of common sense. Let's forget about China, okay? I’m not referring to fiction in the genre of alternative history as sources? And off historians for some reason, yes.
                Central Asian. Oh please. Rashid ad din. Description of Chingiz. Not a single trait suits a Mongoloid. Irish yes. A peasant from near Ryazan, yes. Mongol? Oh well. And here the problem of historians off is that they pull out from the sources only what is convenient for them. Completely ignoring such moments. According to the principle - I believe this line, I do not believe this. It doesn't work that way. Or the source is true, inside and out. Or he is completely fake. Or, at best, not a fake, but just a propaganda opus. It has as much to do with reality as propaganda videos on TV from our days.
                But in general and in general. I do not live by looking at the scrolls on which the falsifiers of the past centuries made good money. I am not engaged in systematic study of this junk. What the opponent refers to .... That's what I study, with the aim of sticking my nose into the jambs, and teaching me not to carry garbage, to decent resources. Post links to your sources. Only not for short excerpts from them, but for full versions. We will disassemble. From a, to z. I am more than sure that 3/4 of your "sources" will be overwhelmed with such nonsense .... What remains to be done is to guess what kind of hard drugs the writers were thrown into.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 October 2020 13: 13 New
                  0
                  Duc a lot of time has passed, and the artist writes as he sees. But for some reason everyone agrees that there were Mongols, and they point out geography. In general, the lady does not need to climb into this jungle, this is not a woman's business. You must win with beauty
                  1. Lannan Shi
                    Lannan Shi 17 October 2020 13: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Icelord
                    Duc much time has passed, and the artist writes as he sees.

                    As much as 400 years have passed since the time of Pozharsky. Many times more than separates the same Chingizische from "the most truthful and reliable sources", however ... However, for some reason, the descriptions of Pozharsky as a Negro over 2 meters tall, or an Eskimo in seal skins, are completely absent ...
                    Quote: Icelord
                    But for some reason everyone agrees that there were Mongols, and they point out geography.

                    You dig those very "sources" on the topic of geography just. Only the "sources" themselves, and not their free interpretation as presented by the "historians". There are so many interesting discoveries awaiting you ... About a new planet, not related to the Earth in any way lol
                    Quote: Icelord
                    In general, the lady does not need to climb into this jungle, this is not a woman's business. You must win with beauty

                    I prefer to be considered a bitch, than "what a dumb fool." yes
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 13: 29 New
                      +3
                      So I read, in translations of course, but I advise you to start with Gorelik to start
                      PS as you know, but "the charm of what fools" love more love
                      1. Lannan Shi
                        Lannan Shi 17 October 2020 13: 34 New
                        0
                        Quote: Icelord
                        but I advise you to start with Gorelik to start

                        Gorelik M.V. Date of birth 1946. As a witness and primary source of the Mongol conquests ... Sorry generously, I don't see what to talk to you about if a person was born in the middle of the 20th century. for you an eyewitness of Chingiz's campaigns.
                        Dixi.
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord 17 October 2020 13: 37 New
                        +3
                        Actually, they all died, witnesses that. And Gorelik is an archaeologist, historian, and a recognized specialist all over the world. Also died unfortunately
                        You still read it, he gives a lot of evidence of his contemporaries there. Well, a purely feminine approach yes
              2. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 17 October 2020 20: 46 New
                +3
                Quote: Lannan Shi
                Or the source is true, inside and out. Or is he completely fake

                Unfortunately, this does not happen. Before the invention of printing, the bulk of written sources reached us in lists, that is, some monk (or other specially trained person) copied manuscripts copied by another monk. So, the same PVL has preserved three lists, there is no original, all three lists are different (not identical, from the word at all) and the historian has to analyze, taking into account archaeological materials, some other written sources. In general, history cannot be called an exact science.
      2. antivirus
        antivirus 16 October 2020 13: 08 New
        13
        and further to the Pacific Ocean there was no other force, except for the late Rus-Siberians, heirs of the vast and mighty Scythian-Siberian world.

        there were the Russo-Aztecs and the Russo-Delaware.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 14 New
          -7
          laughing in vain, the north of America was inhabited by whites. moreover, they were in South America before the Incas.
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 16 October 2020 13: 55 New
            +4
            about laughter - it was advantageous, because of political and military dependence, to bend over to the East - pedigrees were written from the Genghisids.
            By the 20th century, only the Yusupovs remained.
            Europe strengthened - they found Varangian and German roots (from Peter 1) of all the nobility, and they were silent about the eastern relatives-theory.

            everything is cyclical and everything should pay off
            previously related to Byzantium - how it fell - did not look to the South more :::: other problems and centers of power appeared and it was necessary to build relationships with them
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 06 New
              -3
              that is, no one knows the real story?
              1. antivirus
                antivirus 16 October 2020 14: 12 New
                +1
                it is formed, including for a confident look into the future, progressive development, etc.
                mn
                who knows what happiness is? everyone knows what grief is.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 21 New
            +4
            Quote: Dodikson
            North America was inhabited by whites

            where have you gone?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 18 October 2020 12: 48 New
              -1
              Where did the Russians of Chechnya and Tajikistan go?
              cut them out and that's it.
          3. kalibr
            kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 00 New
            +7
            And the skulls were found confirming this, mummies, right? It would be interesting to get acquainted with your sources of information on this matter.
      3. andrew42
        andrew42 16 October 2020 18: 26 New
        +1
        The same LYOKH, I support. In the so-called "official" and "generally accepted" versions of the Tatar-Mongolian (it is difficult to find a delusional name) IGA, there is no simple common sense at all. I realized this from the age of 12, when I just started reading Karamzin, who "had a prince, and the squad loved him," the rest was hemmed in scraps "under a paper clip." So we still live within the walls of the Mental Prison. Mr. Karamzin and German academicians. I can smell that Fomenko-Nosovsky will start waving over the fire. Only the matter is not in alternatives who pull owls on globes, but in the "handshake" masters of the Historians' Guild - Lomonosov is not on them.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 16 October 2020 23: 01 New
          -3
          And who is Lomonosov? What did he discover? What did you write? In addition to loyal poems, of course, then Peter 3, then his murderer Catherine?
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 22 October 2020 14: 47 New
            +1
            "Lomonosov is not on them." - in the sense of a good sobering cuff. Mikhailo Vasilyevich sometimes did not hesitate to apply the last argument against the arrogant and irresponsible Russophobes at the academic trough. Lomonosov's own achievements are a separate topic, and they are quite good at those times of the development of scientific thought, because he was engaged in essentially everything that was possible.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 08 New
              +1
              Yes, not because of Russia, he had a fight, read it before writing, the character was simply disgusting, he loved this business, and that textbook case with a fight in the academy, there was funding for the reason. Well, like children, by God, one ignoramus said others repeat, why not check, it's easy now, the Internet is there
        2. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 55 New
          +1
          The disadvantages are the position, but what do we call Lomonosov's law?
        3. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 23: 18 New
          0
          Lomonosov is an advertising project, like Skolkovo. They say not only in your Europe there are smart men. So he will fold our mosaic, write an ode, and intelligently speculate about phlogiston
      4. astepanov
        astepanov 16 October 2020 19: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        trying to find flaws in the official history ...

        Like it or not, but history is a science. And science is never "official". It is either there or it is not. I have seen enough fighters with "official physics" and "official chemistry". All of them, in fact, turned out to be dense ignoramuses, and often also crazy. I don't know much about history, but when I hear the word "official," I immediately get on my guard. Of course, the "Short Course of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolshevik)" is indeed an official scam, but it did not last long by historical standards. But when they start talking about a world-wide conspiracy for many centuries - this is too much.
    3. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 38 New
      -5
      Could you post links to the video with Rezun and Kalashnikov about how the insidious USSR treacherously wanted to attack infallible Europe?
    4. Hagalaz
      Hagalaz 16 October 2020 12: 58 New
      +5
      Do you truly believe in the official one? Me not. Can't you see how they are trying to rewrite history now? I see. And why couldn't they have done it more than once? Yes Easy!
      And your example about ukrov is not successful, because any, the brightest idea can be taken out of context, distorted, corrected and used for the necessary purposes. This is called propaganda. But decades, centuries pass, and this propaganda will become sort of like history.
      This is the kind of propaganda we live in Istria. Well, how else, it's official!
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 16 October 2020 13: 02 New
        +5
        The official history is based on scientific research. Alternatives to Jewish masses, aliens conspiracies. And what you cited as an example is state propaganda, not history.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 06 New
          -5
          what research did the Germans rely on under Lomonosov?
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 02 New
            +8
            Dodik, I have here on VO (go through the profile to find), there was just a whole series of articles about the Germans and the falsification of chronicles and their analysis from the point of view of historiography. Look ...
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 16 October 2020 13: 17 New
        +6
        Quote: Hagalaz
        Do you truly believe in the official one? Me not. Can't you see how they are trying to rewrite history now? I see. And why couldn't they have done it more than once? Yes Easy!
        And your example about ukrov is not successful, because any, the brightest idea can be taken out of context, distorted, corrected and used for the necessary purposes. This is called propaganda. But decades, centuries pass, and this propaganda will become sort of like history.
        This is the kind of propaganda we live in Istria. Well, how else, it's official!

        Roman, please next time use quotation, otherwise it is difficult to understand who you are asking.
        There is a huge difference between history and propaganda, today it is visible more than ever. As for history, most often these are hypotheses, some of them are proven to a greater extent, others to a lesser extent. And there are also outright lies, can you really call the historian "Dr. Bebik"? Most often, modern "lovers of alternative history" use in their "works" sources that cannot be considered historical, for a number of reasons. Below TAMBU (tambu) has given popular science videos on this topic.
      3. Icelord
        Icelord 16 October 2020 23: 04 New
        +3
        Who is trying to write about? What historian, name, what book? Name. Please do not name journalistic nonsense
    5. Gardamir
      Gardamir 16 October 2020 16: 35 New
      0
      full of serious works about the Mongol invasion.
      Do you also have a documentary film about the Battle of Kalka made by the Mongol-Tatars?
  2. novel66
    novel66 16 October 2020 12: 27 New
    0
    and what could poke a nomad shepherd to throw everything and rush for SIX THOUSAND KILOMETERS ???? exactly, to throw it all was not resettlement
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 16 October 2020 12: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: novel xnumx
      what could poke a nomad shepherd to drop everything and rush

      laughing The same as in modern Kyrgyzstan ... robbery and profit, my friend Roma !!! hi
      In fact, everything is a little more complicated ... Genghis Khan conquered China, well, and would sit there, what was missing then? Silk, Roma, silk, be it not okay ... because of him all this kotovasiya and brewed!
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 51 New
        +1
        and how far did the Kyrgyz go from home?
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 16 October 2020 13: 07 New
          +6
          For 300 km without horses on rented buses ... there was not enough money further bully
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 15 New
            -1
            hmmmm. it will be necessary to see on the map where the line will reach 300 km from Mongolia
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 16 October 2020 13: 25 New
              +6
              Mongolia and the Kyrgyz, even in ancient times, are incompatible things!
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 27 New
                0
                it will be necessary to get along with the Mongols, they are supermen.
                in the course of Marvel will soon be filming a new franchise "people of the Mongols"
                1. novel66
                  novel66 16 October 2020 13: 37 New
                  +1
                  already there, practically
                  1. Dodikson
                    Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 41 New
                    -1
                    well, at least not electric motors
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 16 October 2020 13: 42 New
                      -1
                      well, at least so ...
      2. novel66
        novel66 16 October 2020 12: 51 New
        0
        I hope there will be no Kyrgyz-Tatar yoke? Serenka hi
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 16 October 2020 13: 12 New
          +3
          what Tatars are now the indigenous people of Russia, and you see the Kirghiz every day ... is it a yoke, or not a yoke ... it's up to you! laughing
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 29 New
            -3
            so these Kyrgyz arrived by train.
            and few of them.
            and in Mongolia then so many people on the go did not live that would be enough for the yoke.
            1. novel66
              novel66 16 October 2020 13: 34 New
              0
              they were super cool, scary people
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 07 New
                -2
                Yes . but they didn't know how to clone themselves.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 16 October 2020 14: 22 New
                  +1
                  what for? they didn't die, did they?
                  1. Dodikson
                    Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 36 New
                    +1
                    but there were no more of them in a minute, but what would be from tribes of a couple of tens of thousands of people, including women, old people and children, to collect 300 thousand horsemen, then there is no way without cloning.
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 16 October 2020 14: 36 New
                      +3
                      the figure 300000 is unreal
                    2. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 46 New
                      0
                      yes, it's unrealistic, but they write it.
                  2. novel66
                    novel66 16 October 2020 14: 38 New
                    +3
                    already dismantled - stupidly there will be nothing to feed a million horses and water them, but about livestock (live canned food) I generally keep quiet
                  3. Dodikson
                    Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 47 New
                    +1
                    and I mean the same.
                    there if 100 thousand will pass, then the population of the territory will remember this "locust" for a century.
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 19 New
          +4
          Quote: Dodikson
          Mongolia then did not live so many people along the way that would be enough for a yoke

          laughing If in the steppe shout to plunder the loot, even the Koreans will become Mongols, not to mention the Tatars, Uighurs, Chinese, Sarts and other lovers of someone else's junk!
          Yes, and it was not necessary much. Zhebe and Subede, with two tens of thousands, put the Sogdians, Iranians, Seljuks, Georgians, Alans, and Kipchaks in the lotus position in one campaign!
          1. novel66
            novel66 16 October 2020 14: 22 New
            0
            you can screw it up, go and check it out there, in the steppe
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 44 New
              +2
              Well, what's the matter then? From old memory, the plane is Moscow - Almaty, 50 km to the north by minibus ... you get out and shout! laughing
  • BAI
    BAI 16 October 2020 19: 15 New
    +6
    and what could have poked a nomadic shepherd to drop everything and rush for SIX THOUSAND KILOMETERS?

    Macedonians are never nomads. But for some reason they reached India.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 16 October 2020 23: 05 New
    +1
    And they did that all the time, did they hear about the Jurdzhens? And what about the Khitan?
  • TAMBU
    TAMBU 16 October 2020 12: 39 New
    10
    It always amazed me how many thousands of Mongol army, having passed many kilometers from Mongolia to Russia, left no matter how significant artifacts of their campaign

    yeah ... especially in the Caucasus ... but in general, if the topic is interesting in two parts -

    this is certainly not without inaccuracies, "general education", but at least on the basis of such a science as history ...
    About the generator of this nonsense

  • Beringovsky
    Beringovsky 16 October 2020 12: 55 New
    +9
    Quote: The same Lech

    It always amazed me how many thousands of Mongol army, having passed many kilometers from Mongolia to Russia, did not leave no matter how significant artifacts of their campaign ... miracles.

    And what "artifacts" should have been left by the horse tumens of the Mongols? Manure heaps?
    Or do you think they should have erected pyramids with locks along the way? So they didn’t do it at home either, and only a few artifacts remain from the yurt.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 11 New
      -1
      but, another one who believes that sabers, helmets and so on grow in gardens and for this neither mining is needed (well, let it be not mining, but just ore), nor blacksmithing, which to arm hundreds of thousands of soldiers with a spit. and that feeding hundreds of thousands of soldiers is such an easy task that the population of the countries through which they pass will not even notice. and that after big battles, the bodies somehow teleport to their homeland, well, there is still a lot of things there. but the main thing is to believe that the vast territories of the white Persians from the Arab conquest turned black completely and irrevocably in less than 100 years, but 300 years of Mongol conquests did not affect the appearance of the Russians in any way.
      although it can in the alternative universe all Russian narrow-eyed.
      1. Beringovsky
        Beringovsky 16 October 2020 13: 41 New
        +7
        And what problems with weapons could the Mongols have? Or do you think they are wild? In vain, they lived side by side with the Chinese for fifteen hundred years, and China was definitely not backward at that time.
        As for the hundreds of thousands of soldiers who "need to be armed" - what, such a task really arose with the arrival of Genghis Khan? Before that, the Mongols had only clubs and sticks?
        The nomads in the steppes were always armed in accordance with the era. He who was unarmed did not live long.
        And "hundreds of thousands" is a strong exaggeration. In the campaign of Subudai and Jebe, two tumens, 20 thousand, took part. And the population of the countries they conquered numbered in the millions. What are the problems to feed?
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 19 New
          -4
          I also read about the neighborhood with China and so on.
          you will probably confuse the 20th century with the 13th.
          iron does not lie in pieces on the surface, it must be mined, then it must be processed, and then there were no mining excavators and dump trucks, then people mined by hand, and mining iron for 300 thousand people is not khuhra muhra. and then also process it. back in the 15th century, iron in large volumes was difficult to obtain.
          and China in this regard gave little to the "Mongols", the Chinese were credited mainly with the creation of siege and throwing weapons. And this despite the fact that the Chinese are not famous for them.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: Dodikson
            You're confusing 20th century with 13th

            Back in the 5th century, the proto-Türks were considered the best forges in Central and Eastern Asia; moreover, it was they who, at the suggestion of the Avars, were the first to invent iron armor and stirrups. The Mongols had bows and arrows as their main weapons.
            Quote: Dodikson
            this despite the fact that the Chinese are not famous for them

            I advise you to inquire about the capture of Taraz and Tashkent by the Chinese in 749!
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 46 New
              -2
              are the proto-Turks proto-Mongols?
              By the way, is 749 exactly the 13th century? and then somehow already in the 10th century they almost did not take the city in their internecine wars because there were no weapons.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Dodikson
                are the proto-Turks proto-Mongols?

                These are proto-Russian! laughing
                Quote: Dodikson
                somehow, already in the 10th century, they almost did not take the city in their internecine wars, because there were no guns

                Were there cities in Mongolia?
                Quote: Dodikson
                Is 749 exactly the 13th century?

                No, of course, this is the antiquity of the Chinese and nothing more!
            2. Local from the Volga
              Local from the Volga 20 October 2020 02: 05 New
              0
              advise this protobaran nothing more!
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 16 October 2020 14: 44 New
            +4
            By the way, earlier there was more iron on the surface. It means that each subsequent generation gets less and less resources.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Beringovsky
            Beringovsky 16 October 2020 16: 29 New
            +1
            Quote: Dodikson
            I also read about the neighborhood with China and so on.
            you will probably confuse the 20th century with the 13th.
            iron does not lie in pieces on the surface, it must be mined, then it must be processed, and then there were no mining excavators and dump trucks, then people mined by hand, and mining iron for 300 thousand people is not khuhra muhra. and then also process it. back in the 15th century, iron in large quantities was difficult to obtain ...

            No, you are confusing it strongly. Here I have only one car weighs one and a half tons, and there are two of them in the family. And also a refrigerator, all kinds of household appliances, a garage, etc. Even the door is iron. Well, if you count outside the house - trucks, buses, railways with rolling stock, aviation, huge ships in the seas, industry, construction, etc.? There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of times more metal for a modern person than for this poor Mongol. So he didn't need an excavator. They even put yurts without a single nail, can you imagine?
            What did he have there? Saber, spear, bunch of arrows and stirrups, and a knife. Well, maybe another helmet. How much of this iron is there? And besides, this accumulated over generations, carefully passing from hand to hand, if necessary, it was reforged. They did something themselves, they got something by trading with sedentary neighbors, and something by robbing them. We'll see how it goes. So there were no problems with this, given the needs of the steppe dweller.
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. Icelord
            Icelord 16 October 2020 23: 11 New
            +1
            Quote: Dodikson
            I also read about the neighborhood with China and so on.
            you will probably confuse the 20th century with the 13th.
            iron does not lie in pieces on the surface, it must be mined, then it must be processed, and then there were no mining excavators and dump trucks, then people mined by hand, and mining iron for 300 thousand people is not khuhra muhra. and then also process it. back in the 15th century, iron in large volumes was difficult to obtain.
            and China in this regard gave little to the "Mongols", the Chinese were credited mainly with the creation of siege and throwing weapons. And this despite the fact that the Chinese are not famous for them.

            Where did you learn history? Oh my God, what ignorance. A militant ignoramus who does not want to know anything, otherwise the bright dream of turturia will be covered
          7. lucul
            lucul 17 October 2020 12: 31 New
            -1
            you will probably confuse the 20th century with the 13th.
            iron does not lie in pieces on the surface, it must be mined, then it must be processed, and then there were no mining excavators and dump trucks, then people mined by hand, and to get iron for 300 thousand people is not khuhra muhra. and then also process it

            Don't you know? Iron was smelted on dung, there should be only a thousand degrees for processing - for dung it is a trifle)))
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 59 New
              0
              on a birch coal, Mongolia is not a solid steppe however. Read Gorelik
              1. lucul
                lucul 17 October 2020 14: 25 New
                0
                on a birch coal, Mongolia is not a solid steppe however. Read Gorelik

                I understand you correctly - is Mongolia a country of birches?
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 31 New
                  -1
                  Yes, imagine, there are forests, and quite a few. But I repeat the experts read
                  1. lucul
                    lucul 17 October 2020 14: 34 New
                    0
                    Yes, imagine, there are forests, and quite a few. But I repeat the experts read

                    In sufficient quantities to put on armor 300 thousand troops? )))
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 36 New
                      0
                      lope, lope? 300 thousand? laughing
                    2. lucul
                      lucul 17 October 2020 14: 38 New
                      0
                      lope, lope? 300 thousand?

                      And how much does the official history draw for us? )))
                      The Russians have forests and ores like everyone else, but they never smelted such a quantity of iron as the Mongols)))
                    3. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 41 New
                      0
                      She does not paint such a thing, but in the 19th century they were uncritical towards the annals, but not a single modern historian writes this. Read I say, stop writing nonsense. And the Russians had the same amount of ore as the Mongols. There was no ural
                    4. lucul
                      lucul 17 October 2020 14: 45 New
                      -3
                      but no modern historian writes that.

                      Why so, they began to think with their heads? Or the more you look at the official history, the more white thread you see?
                      There are the Arabs - where they went, everywhere their genome is found, there are practically few Mongolian genes outside the territory of Mongolia ...
                    5. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 53 New
                      0
                      You know, I’m already tired of explaining to you, but in general, all sciences, as a new one is discovered, change, but progressively, and not like that, babakh and turturia. Physics is now also different, but witchcraft has not yet been recorded
                    6. lucul
                      lucul 17 October 2020 14: 57 New
                      -1
                      you know, I'm already tired of explaining to you, but in general, all sciences change as new ones are discovered, but progressively, and not like that, babakh and turturia

                      I'm not talking about Turturia, but about the Mongols, in the official history. Who gave them the secrets of metallurgy (nomads) and where did they get so much iron to subdue the Arabs chained in iron?
                    7. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 15: 05 New
                      0
                      Chinese, read about Khitan, Jurdzhen, they conquered all China, and all from Mongolia
  • V
    V 16 October 2020 17: 09 New
    0
    I will repeat from time to time, especially for the "adherents of the Tatar-Mongol yoke":
    V.V. Putin expressed his opinion on the Battle of Kulikovo, having studied the archives, which he later officially announced as open and accessible in the Russian Geographical Society (Russian Geographical Society). From these archives it follows that the Battle of Kulikovo was a civil war, in which Russian regiments stood on both sides and in which the Tatar cavalry was the main striking force. Including, the Tatar-Mongol yoke is nothing more than an invention of the German "professors" who together drew history to us.
    But in view of the fact that the information war has not stopped and will not stop, such information will always be very difficult to break through the hysteria and lies of the Anglo-Saxons and local "patriots of the Motherland" supporting them.
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri 16 October 2020 21: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Vortex
      V.V. Putin expressed his opinion on the Battle of Kulikovo by examining the archives, which later, officially, declared open and accessible in the Russian Geographical Society (Russian Geographical Society).

      Could you at least give an approximate list of them. By the way, a reference would also be nice. It's not difficult for you. You, after all, following Putin, have already familiarized yourself with them. So let us, sirim, join.
      And one more thing: Could you explain what logical construction allowed you from Statement # 1:
      Quote: Vortex
      From these archives it follows that the Battle of Kulikovo was a civil strife, in which Russian regiments stood on both sides and whose main striking force was the Tatar cavalry.

      display Statement # 2:
      Quote: Vortex
      In particular, the Tatar-Mongol yoke is nothing more than an invention of the German "professors" who together painted history for us.

      Don't hesitate. Strict logic always escapes!
      Or is it, in those very archives, written by the Russians on paper?
      So bring a quote with a reference so that all supporters of the OI and TMI read and, out of grief, kill themselves up the wall!
      1. V
        V 19 October 2020 10: 17 New
        0
        Do not be lazy and look for yourself in the Russian Geographical Society. Especially for you and similar people who have doubts, everything is laid out. Or you "google" with "internet" banned?
  • lucul
    lucul 17 October 2020 12: 28 New
    -1
    ... In the campaign of Subudai and Jebe, two tumens, 20 thousand, took part. And the population of the countries they conquered was in the millions. What are the problems to feed?

    So these two tumens, these peoples, should have been tossed with "meat"? Is not it so ? After all, this is how the official history of the victory over the Germans in 1941-1945 teaches us? )))
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 13: 02 New
      0
      Where does the meat come from? Russian squads are minuscule, and fragmented, and the peasants are rams, either shear or cut
      1. lucul
        lucul 17 October 2020 14: 24 New
        0
        Where does the meat come from? Russian squads are minuscule, and fragmented, and the peasants are rams, either shear or cut

        No need to pretend to be a hose - it is written
        And the population of the countries they conquered numbered in the millions.

        These millions of the population (of Central Asia) would have cast aside the Mongols, wouldn't they? There were just bows and arrows, not tanks and aircraft like the Germans had. Is not it so ? Isn't that how we are taught the history of 1941-1945?
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 29 New
          +2
          No, of course, I've been doing fencing for 35 years, and 28 years in history. So 10 armed, well-armed warriors who know how to fight in formation, they will kill as many peasants as they catch up, and will not count. Firearms contributed greatly to egalitarianism
          1. lucul
            lucul 17 October 2020 14: 32 New
            0
            No, of course, I've been doing fencing for 35 years, and 28 years in history. So 10 armed, well-armed warriors who know how to fight in formation, they will kill as many peasants as they catch up, and will not count. Firearms contributed greatly to egalitarianism

            Then why does the official history teach us that we won the war of 1941-1945 thanks to "meat", that is, we simply showered the Germans with meat, and not thanks to superiority in weapons? )))
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 October 2020 14: 45 New
              0
              Are you blind? I wrote firearms. Again. Firearms. Hams were able to kill. Now, in general, the monkey will press the button and kirdyk
              1. lucul
                lucul 17 October 2020 14: 51 New
                0
                Are you blind? I wrote firearms. Again. Firearms. Hams were able to kill

                And what will firearms change? Well, you handed out rifles to everyone, so what? What will they do against an organized army with tanks and planes, huh? After all, for the past 150 years, success in all wars, throughout the world, has always been the same - this is superiority in weapons. The size of the army no longer plays a special role. But the Germans, we showered with "meat", as the official European history tells us - is it like a bare heel on Junkers?
              2. Icelord
                Icelord 17 October 2020 15: 01 New
                0
                are you quite right? Did the Soviet army have no tanks or aircraft? There were no more of them five times, and there the reason is the incompetence of the command staff, problems with communication, tactics, general illiteracy. Many things. Then they learned
              3. lucul
                lucul 17 October 2020 15: 14 New
                +1
                are you quite right? Did the Soviet army have no tanks or aircraft? There were no more of them five times, and there the reason is the incompetence of the command staff, problems with communication, tactics, general illiteracy. Many things. Then they learned

                Native, the official European history says that we threw meat at the Germans and won.
                And have not learned to fight, as you write.
              4. Icelord
                Icelord 17 October 2020 15: 38 New
                0
                Absolutely exactly. What European book writes such nonsense? Author, title. They will see enough propaganda on zomboyaschiku, but do not want to read. In short, until you name the historian who wrote such nonsense, do not bother with your meat.
                PS Rezun not to offer, he is not a historian
              5. lucul
                lucul 17 October 2020 15: 44 New
                0
                Absolutely exactly. What European book writes such nonsense? Author, title. They will see enough propaganda on zomboyaschiku, but do not want to read.

                Open any Western history textbook at school / university, chapter: Second World War - and read.
              6. Icelord
                Icelord 17 October 2020 15: 47 New
                0
                there's no such thing!!! Which textbook, which country, who is the author? I can literally say that you eat children for breakfast. In short, proofs please
              7. lucul
                lucul 17 October 2020 16: 00 New
                -1
                Which textbook, which country, who is the author? I can literally say that you eat children for breakfast. In short, proofs please

                Read, there are many countries
                https://docviewer.yandex.by/view/163459321/?page=1&*=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%3D&lang=ru
              8. Icelord
                Icelord 17 October 2020 16: 02 New
                0
                I don’t communicate with the offended with the mind, write your bullshit to others, I myself do not live in Russia and what they teach in schools I know
              9. lucul
                lucul 17 October 2020 16: 04 New
                -1
                I don’t communicate with the offended with the mind, write your bullshit to others, I myself do not live in Russia and what they teach in schools I know

                Why ? Here are excerpts from MGIMO.
              10. Icelord
                Icelord 17 October 2020 16: 06 New
                0
                bullshit and not excerpts instantly hiccups not weak. For example, what is taught in the states. In 1943, the Russian army carried out a strategic defeat of the enemy at Stalingrad, this battle can be compared with the fateful battle of the midway
  • kalibr
    kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 07 New
    +1
    Quote: Dodikson
    Mongol conquests did not affect the appearance of the Russians

    Imagine not being reflected. But why is it so long to tell. Just keep it in mind for now.
  • svp67
    svp67 16 October 2020 13: 20 New
    +4
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    Tales about the "Mongols from Mongolia" were created in the West in order to confuse the Russians, cut off and distort the history of Russia.

    What kind of Russia is the author talking about? Any state is, first of all, bureaucracy and writing, there are written sources about the invasion of the Horde, and among many peoples, as well as a description of its internal order, but where is this description of this "mythical" Russia?
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 30 New
      -7
      but do not tell me, if there are written sources about the Mongols and you have to believe in them, then why can't you believe in written sources about Tartary?
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 16 October 2020 13: 35 New
        +3
        Because Tartary does not have such sources - there are chronicles about the Mongols, notes of ambassadors of different states and much more.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 45 New
          -6
          Wow, the maps that are even kept in the British Museum are just a hologram of Fomenko.
          and you didn't have enough ... I don't know what you lacked to open at least a pedigree. there you will find a small list of written sources that describe what you claim does not exist.
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 16 October 2020 13: 47 New
            +2
            There are cards with peeheads, so they existed? Your questions have long been answered, you just do not recognize them. It is much easier to believe that we are being deceived, we were beyond a race.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 05 New
              -8
              1) show a map with the name of the country of the dog-headed.
              2) Russia and France did not exist because even if there are maps with their images, they will show you maps with dog heads (by the way, I’m waiting for it anyway, and I’ll repeat it - a map with the country of dog heads, and not just mentioning that people have seen these lands such then).
              3) and as I understand it, you have not even mastered the pedigree.
        2. Tamparu
          Tamparu 16 October 2020 13: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Kronos
          Because Tartary does not have such sources - there are chronicles about the Mongols, notes of ambassadors of different states and much more.

          And there is a clear description of the appearance of the Mongols ?! Old reproductions of battles show that the fighters fighting the armies are similar in appearance. And not only in appearance, but also in clothing ... Strange Mongols .. smile
          1. Kronos
            Kronos 16 October 2020 13: 52 New
            0
            Nothing strange people portrayed foreigners like themselves. For example, you can look at the monuments of modern Europeans in Asian countries.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 22 New
              0
              lolche? Have you tried to see the pictures of how ours fought with the Swedes (Neva battle)?
              why did they not paint the Swedes like themselves?
            2. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 27 New
              0
              By the way enmip is a picture about the battle on the ice, can you distinguish Russians from non-Russians?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 October 2020 15: 59 New
                +2
                Quote: Dodikson
                By the way enmip is a picture about the battle on the ice, can you distinguish Russians from non-Russians?

                It is very difficult to distinguish Russians from non-Russians about this digital photograph)) And there are also pictures of biblical subjects, where Roman legionnaires and Jews are dressed in medieval European robes laughing
              2. Beringovsky
                Beringovsky 16 October 2020 18: 42 New
                +4
                Quote: Dodikson
                By the way enmip is a picture about the battle on the ice, can you distinguish Russians from non-Russians?

                This is a miniature from a 16th century collection, 300 years after the battle.
                Are you sure that the author of the miniature witnessed this battle? wink
              3. BAI
                BAI 16 October 2020 19: 20 New
                +4
                can you tell Russians from non-Russians?

                Easy. Ours are in pointed helmets.
            3. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 30 New
              -2
              here is another picture where Russians from non-Russians "cannot be distinguished"
              by the way, this is kind of like the battle of the Neva
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 16 October 2020 20: 39 New
                +1
                Quote: Dodikson
                here is another picture where Russians from non-Russians "cannot be distinguished"
                by the way, this is kind of like the battle of the Neva

                The Russians have sphero-conical headgear on their heads, while the Swedes have something reminiscent of a chapel de fer. Can't you see it? Strange ... Apparently you don't want to.
          2. V
            V 16 October 2020 17: 17 New
            -2
            In Europe, in old buildings, mosaics have been preserved, not in a single copy, which depict invasions of supposedly Tatar-Mongol khans. There, for some reason, all the faces are Russian.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 08 New
        +7
        Quote: Dodikson
        why you can't believe in written sources about Tartary

        Do they exist? Name ...
      3. svp67
        svp67 16 October 2020 16: 17 New
        0
        Quote: Dodikson
        why can't you believe in written sources about Tartary?

        The question remained, what did they write about Tartary ...
        Yes, you can believe in anything. Can you believe that Krievia, Nga, Venyaina still exist? And there are relevant documents about this
  • Yahont
    Yahont 16 October 2020 14: 18 New
    0
    Not a topic typical for VO, but I'm just as interesting. Let me break into the conversation and ask the question: - how in the Union, the mathematician Fomenko began to study the origins of Russia without the approval of the competent authorities?
    And then, nevertheless, where was Russia, at the time of the dawn of Hellas and later the Roman Empire?
    And nobody canceled Arkona. The memory of her is still in the "history".
    It is extremely entertaining this activity of searching for one's own origins, in the absence of state interest in this.
    So you ask yourself: was it or not?
    And here only study, excavation, and mathematics can come to the rescue. And this is an exact science, and it will show whether it was possible to carry out an equestrian crossing, a large formation without rear and support, over a long distance. And the psychology of the nomads themselves. As was correctly suggested here, China was already conquered, with all the wealth. Why would an ordinary Mongol, who has already plundered good for five generations ahead, go far to the west? Risk your life, loot good?
    I do not see the logic.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 16 October 2020 22: 41 New
    +2
    And there are a lot of artifacts, but you are not interested in them, you need a great tour
  • Egoza
    Egoza 16 October 2020 12: 11 New
    0
    An interesting topic, but A. Bushkov's writing is more interesting.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 28 New
      -8
      best written by Georgy Sidorov
  • horus88
    horus88 16 October 2020 12: 23 New
    17
    Friday obscurantism has gone ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 24 New
      -4
      Friday obscurantism has gone ...
      Yeah ... and the adherents of the official history are catching up. smile
      If opponents began to be called obscurantists ... then I will give you an example of Giordano Bruno who died at the stake because of his obscurantism, as you put it ... there is also a stubborn Galileo who did not believe in the official interpretation of the world around him at that time ... everything is relatively dear Pavel ...
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 16 October 2020 13: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        adherents of the official history pull up

        Alexey, how does an alternative history explain the disappearance of the powerful state of Alans in 1221? And what was it in 1223 on the Kalka river ???
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 46 New
          -6
          the same as it was near Debaltseve in 2014
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 06 New
            +4
            The same is that the most ?????
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 44 New
              -3
              the expansion of the West on the Russians by the Russians themselves.
              in the Donbass, if you don’t get fucked up, they went to fight, they made mattresses there to fight, and our Russian people threw them out of Donbass.
              that is, the Russians fought with the Russians.
              and on Kalka, the Russians fought with the Russians whom the Vatican convinced that they were some other Russian and we must go and carry both the new faith and the new Western world to the east.
              The Vatican and not Constantinople baptized Russia, Constantinople only grabbed the bonuses from this, but the organizer was the Vatican, and Olga played a bigger role than Vladimir.
              And in those days, the converts went to break the old world, as they broke before Serbia, Poland, Czech Republic, Bulgaria and other countries.
              and when they had already crossed the line in Siberia and the same Russians arrived as they had recently arrived in Donbass and broke into those Central Europeans and drove them back and almost took the Vatican, dad even fled from there.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Dodikson
                so on Kalka, Russians fought with Russians

                Well, and what side of the Kipchaks is there then? And who did they betray there? And why did they not return home to the lower reaches of the Volga, but rushed to Hungary?
                Quote: Dodikson
                The Vatican convinced them that they are some other Russian and we must go and carry both the new faith and the new Western world to the east.

                laughing And more specifically about this, you can?
                Quote: Dodikson
                when they had already crossed the line in Siberia and arrived the same русские

                Those. Russians lived in those days from the Pacific Ocean to the Ore Mountains? And then what happened to the Russian from Siberia?
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 53 New
                  0
                  nobody has gone anywhere. my watch arrives in 3 minutes, and then I go to drink, my friends drove up. if I have time then I will answer today, if not tomorrow.
                  and about the Russians to the Far East, read about the Tarim mummies.
                  was inhabited by the European Far East. and where did he go?
                  there is a long conversation and a couple of posts will not fit.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 16 October 2020 14: 55 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Dodikson
                    read about Tarim mummies

                    what So the royal Scythians are those imaginary Russians? Are the Scythians aware of this?
                    1. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 15 New
                      0
                      yes in the course.
                      only the Black Sea Scythians were not in the know, they, like the Kakly, now considered themselves a separate, somehow more civilized people.
                      and what do you think? Russians come out of thin air? there were no Russians, then it snowed and the Russians were formed from this snow?
                      or did they have a parental people from which they descended?
                      then when I read you Th then I remembered Slepakov - I told you grandmother, let's give birth to a daughter first, and you'd better give a granddaughter right away.
                  2. Serg65
                    Serg65 16 October 2020 15: 02 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Dodikson
                    inhabited by the same European man DV

                    Not European, but Indo-European ... it's a bit of a difference, these Indo-Europeans were the Scythians! They did not live in the Far East, the extreme point of habitation was southern Siberia, namely the Minusinsk Basin! And they went to the Black Sea region and to the North Caucasus, because first the Huns, then the Manchurs, and at the end of the Turks, squeezed them out of their permanent places of residence.
                    1. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 16 New
                      -1
                      in general, the Indo-Europeans are the Pro-Russian. other branches broke off from them, and the Indians and Persians, these are those who were Indo-Europeans by blood, but Western Europe was only by their language.
                  3. Icelord
                    Icelord 16 October 2020 23: 20 New
                    -3
                    Rave! But now I understand, watch, so you are a worker, but why talk about history. Need to plump tongue
                    1. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 17 New
                      0
                      On the way, the scammers do not know that in the oil region most of the work is carried out OUTSIDE the city limits, and the scammers do not even realize that ordinary city buses do not carry there. therefore, the enterprises have rotational buses.
                      and loaders like you from your store can get there by minibus.
                      1. Icelord
                        Icelord 17 October 2020 10: 42 New
                        -1
                        You plump, do not be distracted, yet not such a turturia is being seen. Russoarii built the rings of Saturn, what is not a version?
                      2. Dodikson
                        Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 44 New
                        0
                        what, did the minibus go through psychiatry?
                        only this is not a version, this is a statement of fact
                      3. Icelord
                        Icelord 18 October 2020 10: 08 New
                        -1
                        Yeah, they built that ring. Boom to know
            2. Tamparu
              Tamparu 16 October 2020 18: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Serg65
              Quote: Dodikson
              so on Kalka, Russians fought with Russians

              Well, and what side of the Kipchaks is there then? And who did they betray there? And why did they not return home to the lower reaches of the Volga, but rushed to Hungary?
              Quote: Dodikson
              The Vatican convinced them that they are some other Russian and we must go and carry both the new faith and the new Western world to the east.

              laughing And more specifically about this, you can?
              Quote: Dodikson
              when they had already crossed the line in Siberia and arrived the same русские

              Those. Russians lived in those days from the Pacific Ocean to the Ore Mountains? And then what happened to the Russian from Siberia?

              The Russians and all other residents were washed away by a wave, a flood, if you will, which came from the current Arctic Ocean not so long ago, 300-500 years ago. Why are there no traces left? It's simple. Do you know how sandpaper works? I think that the wave that went along with the silt deposits and the surface layer of the earth simply "erased" everything that was in their path. Those settlements that were in the lowlands and hollows were brought in by such a layer of silt sediment and all the accompanying nonsense in the form of trees, stones and
              etc., that they still cannot get to the bottom. I think that the layer thickness there goes up to tens of meters. Archaeologists still find filled huts with all kinds of utensils and more. How do they argue? Allegedly, this is a burial place where they dragged everything that could be useful to the deceased in that world. Etc...
              Yours faithfully, hi
  • Icelord
    Icelord 16 October 2020 23: 16 New
    0
    Bruno was not burned for his nonsense, read at least his story, and the sentence
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 12: 29 New
    13
    Friday obscurantism has gone ...

    Autumn, gentlemen ... Time of exacerbations ... I am not surprised by the portion of Samsonovism.
    The mysterious "Reklius" is most likely the hero of the Rus mythology, who became a god for the Tavro-Scythians - Hercules. This name comes from the Russian Yaro-Slav - Herakleos ("kleos" - "glory"), which in related languages ​​sounds like Irakl, Irakli.

    a play on words can stretch anything, anything, anything. Soon there will be a cycle about the digging by the Russo-Minoans of the Mediterranean Sea.
    To be honest, I don't feel like doing this clicks and views. hi
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 39 New
      -3
      Well yes ... smile for autumn and Friday, you can write off everything and any exacerbation, including Trump, for example, EU officials and our members of the forum ... how simple it is with you ... just that autumn is to blame ... with Friday obscurantism ... well even if they told their opponents to dig the Mediterranean Sea, the Ruso-Minoans would not succeed ... they did not have alien technologies.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 16 October 2020 16: 01 New
      +3
      Greetings! hi
      So Tatrtaria went with hyperethnos and Hyperborea laughing
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 16: 08 New
        +4
        So Tatrtaria went with hyperethnos and Hyperborea

        Or HyperTartasia with SuperBorea! fellow drinks
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 16 October 2020 17: 29 New
          +2
          And Raised the Tartar Sword on the Teutonic
          And the dog knight ran to Atlantis
          And he sank with her ...
          Based on a photograph taken from the first Rome to the third in the papal archives with a mother's iPhone
      2. Dodikson
        Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 19 New
        -1
        yes, it's better about Tartary than about the fictional promised land.
        1. Icelord
          Icelord 17 October 2020 10: 52 New
          +3
          No, no better Jews have a patent much earlier than Russoarians received laughing
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 17 October 2020 10: 57 New
          -1
          Quote: Dodikson
          yes, it's better about Tartary than about the fictional promised land.

          Completely fictional - in fact, these are Crimea and Turkey, I read, I know fellow
  • mark2
    mark2 16 October 2020 12: 39 New
    +5
    Friday obscurantism is gone

    This is a symptomless course of the coronavirus.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 41 New
      -5
      Well, the coronavirus has increased ... whoever throws up more versions, gentlemen ... at least somehow the topic would be diversified or something.
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 14: 48 New
      +5
      This is a symptomless course of the coronavirus.

      it was the author's forbidden plants on the plot that finally ripened. Once every six months they sing - checked.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 16 October 2020 16: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Pan Kohanku
        This is a symptomless course of the coronavirus.

        it was the author's forbidden plants on the plot that finally ripened. Once every six months they sing - checked.

        No, there's something heavier here))
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 16: 10 New
          +5
          No, there's something heavier here))

          Albert, I think so too, but this is for the Good Doctors. Even the kindest. fellow Immediately in quarantine, and a month in a straitjacket. laughing "And then the head physician Margulis banned the TV!" drinks
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 16 October 2020 16: 52 New
            +1
            Nicholas laughing drinks, if my health allowed, I would prefer the contact details of his dealer))
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 16: 56 New
              +3
              if my health allowed, I would prefer the contact details of his dealer))

              he has direct connections with Colombia, with the big Don Sancho Juarez (personally!) - a renowned supplier of the Mole product for creative people. laughing drinks
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 16 October 2020 17: 33 New
                +3
                Rather, there is good Belgian acid))
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 03 New
                  +2
                  Mushrooms are the orcoids from warhammer 40000 request
  • parusnik
    parusnik 16 October 2020 14: 00 New
    +4
    Friday obscurantism has gone ...
    good laughing And not only ..
  • lucul
    lucul 16 October 2020 12: 28 New
    -6
    I remind you - "Sergei Glazyev demanded a total revision of world history
    "The new chronology of Fomenko provides a good logical basis for the restoration of the historical memory of the Russian world" "
    https://mk-ru.turbopages.org/mk.ru/s/social/2020/10/10/sergey-glazev-potreboval-totalnogo-peresmotra-mirovoy-istorii.html
    1. Icelord
      Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 06 New
      +2
      Brat! An economist and politician demands a revision of history))) What should I, and from whom to demand?
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 16 October 2020 12: 32 New
    19
    This is a fail of education, even all over the world. When I was a student I thought that in the 21st century we would fly to Mars. Instead, the world was flooded with nuclear wars of the 18th century, flat lands, tartarii, great civilizations, questions like "do you believe that people were on the moon" and all sorts of other crazy houses.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 12: 39 New
      -5
      and if they are right?
      1. mark2
        mark2 16 October 2020 14: 37 New
        +1
        and if they are right


        How to check?
        The very emergence of such themes is already stupid.
        What will change in the present and in the future is this rewriting. The current concept is harmonious and logical.
        Alternatives do not provide evidence at all. More precisely, they give some kind of links to documents that are available only on the Internet or even refer to themselves. But more often - only inferences. Alternatives also use traditional sources and misrepresent themselves. According to the principle, if instead of the word horde, which is indicated in the chronicle by two consonants RD, we substitute the word army, then the meaning will change and it turns out that Fomenko is right.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 45 New
          -1
          that is, to check the written sources of Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome, as well as Hindu beliefs is it stupidity?
          then I have bad news for you.
          1. mark2
            mark2 17 October 2020 10: 59 New
            0
            It's stupid to raise the topic that scientists are all lying. There is a certain harmonious, or, if you like, built concept of world history, where all countries and peoples are integrated there more or less organically. And then some young and fast people appear, and they begin to assert that everything is not so and everything is not that way. That is why I ask: Why rebuild what is already established? What will change if everything is rewritten?
            Well, let's say, they proved that the pyramids were not built by the Egyptians and not 5000 years ago, that all European languages ​​took something similar to Russian as a basis, then what? Would it warm your soul? What is the point? Or will we change to the ukroshumer humpbacked horse "We all owe it"?
            It's like in the song gr. Leningrad: "Olya wants a behu instead of a Merc, because there is nothing to do ... (there is nothing). You need to do something useful. I said everything.
        2. Tamparu
          Tamparu 17 October 2020 15: 24 New
          +2
          Quote: mark2
          and if they are right


          How to check?
          The very emergence of such themes is already stupid.
          What will change in the present and in the future is this rewriting.

          Mikhail Lomonosov: “A people who do not know their past have no future.”
          The current concept is harmonious and logical.

          How slim and logical is she? The life of a person and a people is multi-layered in society. At what level does logic work for you and the majority, as a result of which everything is clear and logical? Within the framework of what concept is it all clear and logical? How sure are you that this concept is correct? Etc...
          In military language, as they say in Odessa-mama, these are two small differences: to make a decision at the level of a platoon commander or at the level of the General Staff. Despite the fact that the General Staff also has a political leadership, which is also not always independent.
          I clearly explained?
          Sincerely, hi
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 14 New
        +3
        Dodikson (Dodik)
        Today, 12: 39

        NEW
        If it's not a secret, what is your education and how many "years" have you been "interested" in ... this?
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 17 October 2020 10: 48 New
          +1
          I am 40, I am interested in 30 years. higher education, winner of republican olympiads in history.
          I have read more on this topic than you have seen, I have been on trips, including single ones, in the Urals and Taiga (mounds), tell me about yourself in order to understand with what great professional in the historical part I have the honor to communicate.
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 09 New
            +1
            Well, here I am 46, lieutenant colonel of the reserve, since childhood I have been seriously engaged in the history of weapons, well, in general, I read history along the way
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 17 October 2020 20: 29 New
            +1
            It makes no sense for me to talk about myself here, many already know more about me here than myself in five years. But if you own the Internet, then there is a lot about me. Type: Shpakovsky Vyacheslav Olegovich and everything will be for you. Only I not only read a lot, but also published my own military history magazine, and published books in print ... 40 since 1987, in the USSR, the Russian Federation, England (Osprey publishing house) and Germany. + one novel. Electronic novels ... 6. Since 1988, Ph.D. D., associate professor since 1995, a member of the International Federation of Journalists, well, tomorrow I will turn 66, so tomorrow I have a rest in terms of answers. On trips, although not very long, I also did. Poland, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Hungary, Croatia, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Cyprus. Usually these are castles and military history museums. Then I write about everything that I saw here.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 18 October 2020 12: 51 New
              -1
              and how does this affect the accuracy of the information?
              Tell you about the ranks and regalia of a passenger who claimed that vehicles heavier than air cannot fly?
              By the way, do you know that the rector of the Smithsonian Institution has more academic degrees than yours, and this did not stop the destruction of archaeological artifacts by Smithsonian scientists that did not suit them?
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 18 October 2020 13: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Dodikson
                Smithsonian Institution

                I worked with him, but I don't know anything about it ... From what sources of trust do you know this?
              2. Icelord
                Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 22 New
                +1
                Wah, my friend is an archaeologist, just from the Smithsonian Institute, so next year in Mexico I'll drink tequila with him, I'll ask him how many artifacts he destroyed, and I'll clean up my face like Lomonosov. Don't distort the bastard history laughing
          3. kalibr
            kalibr 17 October 2020 20: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Dodikson
            higher education

            Humanitarian, historical?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 18 October 2020 12: 52 New
              -1
              humanitarian. psychologist. was simply transferred to psychology from philosophy.
              for the group was small and either disbandment or transfer to psychologists.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 18 October 2020 13: 51 New
                0
                Thanks! Actually, I'm afraid of psychologists and philosophers. Everyone I knew was a little sick in the head ... And my wife worked at the Department of Philosophy from 1984 to 2005 ... saw enough. And now we have a department of PHILOSOPHY AND SOCIAL COMMUNICATIONS ... but I left there in 2017. So I looked enough ... I will not say that you are the same, although I really do not like what you wrote. Let's see what it will turn into in ... years. For example, in my youth I was an ardent supporter of aliens from outer space. Lectured on the line of the OK Komsomol. But the material was collected for years and then - bang, I saw that "the king is naked." It was the same with the history of the CPSU. Taught her for 9 years. He was a lecturer of the RK KPSS. He defended his thesis ... and then - bach - "the naked king." Do you know how he advocated the triumph of Lenin's ideas? Whoa!
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 46 New
      -2
      Instead, the world was flooded with nuclear wars of the 18th century, flat lands, tartarii, great civilizations, questions like "do you believe that people were on the moon" and all sorts of other crazy houses.

      And all autumn is to blame ... the coronavirus and all sorts of exacerbations of a different nature. smile ... do not worry too much, in the history of mankind, collisions of different views are normal.
      1. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 16 October 2020 12: 51 New
        11
        in the history of mankind, collisions of different views are normal.


        Yes, my colleague agrees ... But this is when we are discussing the age of the Trojan War. And when we make this very war nuclear, it’s already a Latin name or an abandoned education. For 30 years, the education of our people has dropped below the plinth. Here I am inclined to consider a neoliberal, world conspiracy against the education of people. Why do rulers need educated people and educated teachers?
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 23 New
          -3
          and who was talking about the fact that the Trojan War was nuclear?
          it was about the fact that on the territory of Asia there was a state of Caucasians called Tartaria, in language they were at least related to the Russians, perhaps even belonged to the same Slavic branch as the Russians.
          what is impossible in that?
          how and how the development of this version is that it was the population of this country that was the very army that is called the Tatar-Mongols.
    3. Hagalaz
      Hagalaz 16 October 2020 13: 24 New
      0
      Yeah, a certain student came out into a huge adult world. Everything turned out not to be the way someone told it. The former student closed his mind and decided not to see or hear anything else. Associations arise with three monkeys or an ostrich head in the sand.
      By the way, when I was also a student, various Americanisms were not welcomed in Russian speech, but now it is in the order of things.)
    4. Local from the Volga
      Local from the Volga 20 October 2020 02: 25 New
      0
      And here, I support you!
  • cniza
    cniza 16 October 2020 12: 32 New
    -3
    A beautiful study, it is difficult now to find the truth, I will emphasize not the truth - there are many of them, namely the truth. Quite a possible scenario for the development of history.
  • TAMBU
    TAMBU 16 October 2020 12: 34 New
    12
    oh ... @ # $%! yayayayayayayaya .....
    And although I know the source of this wildest anti-scientific nonsense, I would like to refer to
    Anthropological studies of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries. show the complete absence of the Mongolian element in Russia.

    In principle, after that, you can not read further -
    The ancestors of the modern Mongols were then at a low level of development (shepherds, hunters), approximately like the North American Indian tribes.

    So for information - the organization of society in the era of the conquest of Ulus Jochi, the organization of logistics and military affairs was, to put it mildly, advanced ... read the books of specialists to understand how complex it was for an organized model of society and why they reached the peak of their power at that time and in that place ... and the charlatan Fomenko and his accomplice Nosovsky with their Khrenology, please consider it an exclusively humorous booklet, otherwise there will be trouble ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2020 12: 50 New
      -7
      read the books of specialists to understand how complex it was for an organized model of society and why they reached the peak of their power at that time and in that place

      You know, you cannot take on faith the books of specialists either ... among them there are also masters of pulling an owl on a globe ... the truth is such an elusive thing.
      But I believe the laws of nature without a doubt ... because if an apple falls on my head, I immediately understand, rubbing the bump on the top of my head, that universal gravitation exists ... you can't argue against it.
      1. Kronos
        Kronos 16 October 2020 13: 04 New
        +3
        This is a primitive logic in the style I did not live with dinosaurs, so they did not exist.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 16 October 2020 13: 06 New
          -3
          This is a primitive logic in the style I did not live with dinosaurs, so they did not exist.

          Nothing primitive ... following the method of deduction, as Holmes used to say, you can reach the dinosaurs. smile
          Knowledge of the truth does not always follow the straight path.
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 16 October 2020 14: 07 New
            +5
            Knowledge of the truth does not always follow the straight path.

            Moves digging curves
            Underground clever mole.
            Normal heroes
            Always go around!
            Normal heroes
            Always go around!
            Bypass go, of course,
            Not very easy.
            Not very nice
            And very far away!
            Not very nice
            And very far away!
            But they do so
            Only the wise men.
            With a detour approach
            Only the brave!
            Fools, hero of the system,
            Rush forward
            Normal heroes
            Always the opposite.
            Normal heroes
            Always the opposite.
            And we are off the curve
            Do not turn back
            And it will be necessary again
            Let's go the crooked way!
            And it will be necessary again
            Let's go the crooked way!
        2. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 38 New
          -7
          did the Persians live during the Arab conquests?
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 16 October 2020 13: 48 New
            +1
            did the Persians live during the Arab conquests?

            The Persians lived, live and will live forever ... smile their name will only change.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 00 New
              -7
              Can you describe the current appearance of the Persians? well, who are now Iranians.
              1. Same lech
                Same lech 16 October 2020 14: 01 New
                +1
                Can you describe the appearance of the Persians?

                What kind of Persians? ...
                in what century?
                what age?
                in what area?
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 02 New
                  -8
                  central Iran, the present time and time, say 2-3 century AD and 2-3 century BC.
                  mistaken in a couple of centuries is not terrible.
          2. Icelord
            Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 18 New
            +2
            Persians lived under the Macedonian, and in the 19th century, now they are called Iranians
      2. TAMBU
        TAMBU 16 October 2020 13: 47 New
        +5
        scientific books are not based on faith, but on scientific methodologies for studying the object under study, which are based on a material base. truth is always one. and you know about the existence of universal gravitation only because at school they told how a scientist by the name of Newton scientifically substantiated and proved the existence of this force on the basis of scientific methodology. otherwise, on faith alone, you would at most think that the Lord wanted the apple to fall.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 16 October 2020 14: 04 New
          -2
          truth is always one.

          Truth always involves questioning any unshakable postulate ... otherwise a person would never have learned to fly in the air ... we move with you into the field of philosophical reasoning ... this process is endless, like the dispute about truth ... every person sees it by his own. hi
          1. TAMBU
            TAMBU 16 October 2020 17: 16 New
            +2
            Truth is the correspondence of a concept to an object. those. consists in the correspondence of objectivity to the concept, and not in the correspondence of external objects to my ideas. (c)
            wink
            yes this is philosophy - an important science. about words.
            If you want to understand what truth is, you need to ask philosophers. For example here:

            and if you comprehend this science disputes will be, but in completely different planes)
        2. Tamparu
          Tamparu 17 October 2020 15: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: TAMBU
          scientific books are not based on faith, but on scientific research methodologies of the object under study, which are based on a material base.

          The Russian language is insidious !!! The phrase "material base" can be understood in different ways ... wassat
      3. mark2
        mark2 16 October 2020 14: 42 New
        +3
        But Fomenko and Nosovsky are not specialists in history at all. Or you think that after reading a few history textbooks you will become a connoisseur of it. Or do you think that history is such tales that are composed and told to children at night?
      4. kalibr
        kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 18 New
        +3
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        You know, you cannot take on faith the books of specialists either ... among them there are also masters of pulling an owl on a globe ... the truth is such an elusive thing.

        You cannot say this, because you do not know the historiography of the issue. So, how do you distinguish truth from fiction? People have been doing this for years, but what is there for decades, and you just ... bang, the apple fell and I understood everything. The brain fell and hurt.
    2. Alexander Sosnitsky
      Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 13: 28 New
      -4
      Moreover, I knew an archaeologist in the 1970s who dug Negroids in Kiev. And I also know the ice ages that occupied the entire territory of modern Ukraine. But whites already then inhabited the entire northern part of the globe and they did not disappear anywhere, but turned into modern Europeans with all their problems. This is their homeland. Also, all European languages ​​revolve around Russian / Slavic. So think about who came from where. They are all human, black, white, yellow, etc. And the understatement of races and peoples is fascism, for which the West is famous as an underdeveloped Pitencantron-Neanderthal domination with all due respect to it.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 16 October 2020 23: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky

        Moreover, I knew an archaeologist in the 1970s who dug Negroids in Kiev.

        AND??? What was the dating of these "coals"? (You probably don't know, but all the Homo sapiens who came to Eurasia were, at first, a little black and with negroid features ...).
        Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
        But whites already then inhabited the entire northern part of the globe and they did not disappear anywhere, but turned into modern Europeans with all their problems.

        1. "Then", this is when? Time?
        2. Whites, who, even before the arrival of the little black Homo sapiens, "inhabited the entire northern part" and not only the northern part of Eurasia (where "This is their homeland") - are called "Neanderthals". Are you sure that it was they who "became modern Europeans"?
        1. Alexander Sosnitsky
          Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 23: 57 New
          -2
          1-5 thousand years, about that. Kiev region and I think the whole surrounding Ukraine. That was the style of conversation. Art. scientific. sotr. Institute of Archeology of the Academy of Sciences of the Ukrainian SSR, candidate of sciences, went to the doctoral. I think there are relevant publications from that time. Why don't you know this, if you consider yourself a sufficient expert in this?
          2. The HS question has no answer in modern science. Therefore, it is not discussed here. But I think the factor of white skin (a race that has been formed for a very long time - tens and hundreds of thousands of years) unambiguously answers the main question - this is the north that exists in Eurasia and North America and, possibly, Antarctica. The corresponding artifacts do not contradict this. According to their number and geography, North America is considered the main hypothesis.
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 23 New
            +3
            oh, you're lying about blacks 5k years ago in Ukraine, although we can trick the ignorant art. Sci. Employee
            1. Alexander Sosnitsky
              Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 11: 45 New
              -2
              outside the mind, why then communicate at all. you had bad contacts
      2. Icelord
        Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 20 New
        +2
        What languages ​​are these, besides Slavic, of course? Romanesque? Germanic?
  • Egoza
    Egoza 16 October 2020 12: 40 New
    0
    We will never know the truth. We do not know what exactly was the impetus for some act of a famous historical figure. A phrase, movement, intonation in a conversation, a small deed, but you never know what, and the wheel of history has turned. I'm not talking about some epidemic that we do not know about, but which forced the people to move. A bad omen, a quarrel between brothers, a false accusation, "Desdemona's handkerchief" ..... we can only assume and believe or not believe those fragments of facts that have survived to this day
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 16 October 2020 13: 10 New
      -1
      .we can only assume and believe or not believe those fragments of facts that have survived to this day

      Here is your answer good quite logical on our official history ... hit the mark.
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 20 New
      +1
      Well done Elena, in everyday life - yes. But there are documents. "In the summer ... it was ordered to the governor Yury Kotransky to build a city on the Sura River ...". And there are a LOT of them ...
  • pytar
    pytar 16 October 2020 12: 47 New
    16
    Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary - Author: Samsonov Alexander
    This is not a station, but a fairy tale for children. There's more truth to Game of Thrones than there is ...
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 13: 08 New
      11
      There's more truth to Game of Thrones than there is ...

      Then I propose to discuss "Game of Thrones". wink Obviously more interesting. drinks
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 16 October 2020 13: 39 New
        +8
        Do not be. laughing The text shows hidden advertising of the authors whom Samsonov mentions in the article. It is better then to discuss the history of Middle-earth. laughing
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 13: 58 New
          +6
          Better then discuss the history of Middle-earth.

          There is also "Skyrim", Alexey Anatolyevich! wink In general, a whole universe for discussion! drinks Giants, dragons, mammoths and cat people! laughing
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 16 October 2020 19: 04 New
            +4
            Thank you, Kohl, I made you happy! It's just a pity for the snake ... he owed me a bottle and flew to fishing. And half a liter is not a bent alternative to you. drinks
      2. pytar
        pytar 16 October 2020 14: 18 New
        +3
        Obviously more interesting.

        Probably yes! drinks The writer George R.R. Martin is clearly more talented than Samsonov! yes
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 14: 24 New
          +8
          Probably yes! drinks Writer George R.R. Martin is clearly more talented than Samsonov! yes

          At first I thought it was a sinful thing that Mr. Samsonov himself in your photo is sitting on the Iron Throne. belay then looked closer - no, tired Sean Bean ... laughing The winter is coming!drinks
          1. pytar
            pytar 16 October 2020 15: 21 New
            +2
            At first I thought it was a sinful thing that Mr. Samsonov himself in your photo is sitting on the Iron Throne, then I looked closely - but no, tired Sean Bean ...

            Or maybe HE himself is on the throne ?! We can look like Sean! belay To compose a fairy tale like "The Mystery of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary"need inspiration! In the given case - the iron throne is very suitable! good Wooden is hardly so inspiring! Even I, if I find an iron throne and tie on it, drink a glass of beer and soooo fellow I'll make up that even Samsonov will envy! bully
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 15: 35 New
              +4
              Wooden is hardly so inspiring! Even I, if I find an iron throne and tie on it, drink a glass of beer and soooo

              Will not work. request Samsonov has a throne made of a different material, and a direct dedicated connection with space through "obviously not beer." wassat Where are we before him ... recourse
              I'll make up that even Samsonov will envy!

              But you can try! Let's call the topic: "How the Eskimo-Rus defeated the Zulu-Aztecs in the second Annunaki war on the Yellow River". good all comments are ours! fellow drinks
              1. pytar
                pytar 16 October 2020 16: 51 New
                +3
                But you can try! Let's call the topic: "How the Eskimo-Rus defeated the Zulu-Aztecs in the second Annunaki war on the Yellow River." all comments are ours!

                You already have an IDEA! bully We stock up on popcorn, turn on CHU and read the comments! good
              2. Catfish
                Catfish 16 October 2020 19: 10 New
                +6
                I'll turn to the classics. smile
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 16 October 2020 19: 45 New
                  +6
                  It’s less and less funny each time.
                  Where does all this come from?
                  There is also an opportunity to try to figure it out. Common sense, finally.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 16 October 2020 19: 51 New
                    +6
                    Do you remember, there was such a Karbain here, a "great specialist" in weapons, nobody had any question about his "common sense". It's the same here. request
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 16 October 2020 20: 16 New
                      +5
                      No, I do not remember. As for the weapon, I am more silent. Unless I can say something about the properties of a tree.
                    2. kalibr
                      kalibr 17 October 2020 21: 02 New
                      +2
                      Well, how ?! Password - "Kiraly"!
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 17 October 2020 21: 12 New
                        +2
                        Exactly! He himself, appeared here under different nicknames and delighted everyone with the inimitable fireworks of his ideas. laughing
                    3. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 21: 07 New
                      0
                      Constantine my compliments hi ... What is this legendary Carbine? I already heard something
      3. bubalik
        bubalik 16 October 2020 19: 27 New
        +7

        Pane Kohanku
        Today, 14: 08

        - In which chamber we have Lanistera?
        “In the Seventh Chamber, where the Targaryens used to be. wassat
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 18 October 2020 13: 12 New
          +2
          - In which chamber we have Lanistera?
          “In the Seventh Chamber, where the Targaryens used to be.

          But how romantic they were! (except for Carlson) drinks
  • forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 16 October 2020 12: 55 New
    -1
    Very interesting. How could the Arabs Islamize the great Golden Horde "from sea to sea", if they did not manage to Islamize even southern Spain?
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 13: 14 New
    -4
    Finally, everything is clearly and clearly clarified in the purely national sources of Great Russia, stretching from the Atlantic to Alaska. The true origin of Europe has not yet been fully disclosed in modern history and is still ahead as it really was. Success to you, author. Those who question this theory are simply not familiar with the facts.
    1. forty-eighth
      forty-eighth 16 October 2020 13: 15 New
      +3
      What sources of Great Russia do you know? It would be very interesting to read.
      1. Alexander Sosnitsky
        Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 13: 18 New
        -2
        The 140 thousand year old Rosette Stone contained a text in purely Russian. This is North America. And there is a lot of that. Russia is a primitive people.
        1. forty-eighth
          forty-eighth 16 October 2020 13: 23 New
          0
          I didn't know about that. And where can you read about him?
          1. Alexander Sosnitsky
            Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 13: 35 New
            -4
            And here I can not find the link, everything is cleaned up on the net. But it is, I will find the answer to you.
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 28 New
              +1
              Ay, cunning Jew-masons are reptilians, Vatican. You are more careful there russoary 140 thousand years old, they can put in a psychiatric hospital. I would definitely put
              1. Alexander Sosnitsky
                Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 11: 43 New
                -1
                cheap, primitive
        2. pytar
          pytar 16 October 2020 14: 14 New
          +8
          The 140 thousand year old Rosette Stone contained a text in purely Russian. This is North America. And there is a lot of that. Russia is a primitive people.

          Alexander, excuse me, but ... there is not a single correct statement, in what you wrote. No.
          https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C
          https://socketmira.ru/podelochnye-kamni/rozettskij-kamen.html
          Not North America, but Egypt, and there is not a word about it in any Russian ... hi
          1. Alexander Sosnitsky
            Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 14: 28 New
            -5
            I said that I cleaned out the information on the network. Rosette is a town in the North of the United States (not to be confused with a UFO), where a 140-year-old hydrocarbon analysis stone with a face and the inscription BABA YARA was dug up as I wrote it here. Like an amulet with a hole on top under a lace, it looks very modern. It was studied and photographed, and then, allegedly by mistake, it was dissolved in acid. It is a pity that I did not save these data and photos. Now think, can there be science in such a society? No. There is a total moronization and preparation for a super war. Humanity has exhausted itself. Russia is the last state with a human face, conservative. "They cannot" decipher Etruscan inscriptions, books are burning, and so on. Russian history was destroyed. Western only. The provocations are total. Where will this lead?
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 27 New
              10
              Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
              Where will this lead?

              You to the psychiatric hospital. Moreover, it was I who dissolved that stone and burned the last manuscript of Tartary. Moreover, in Penza we have such a "drunk road" leading to nowhere, but in a pretty decent condition. Why? And on it, those who are too far approaching the true secrets of history are rolled into the asphalt. At first they are simply warned ... Then ... then they go out to the bread shop for rolls and disappear. And the "drunk road" is lengthened by a couple of meters!
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 16 October 2020 15: 50 New
                +8
                You to the mental hospital.
                Judging by some comments and the infa cleaned up on the Internet, Article 29 of the well-known law is crying for its clients.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 17: 11 New
                  +6
                  Judging by some comments and the infa cleaned up on the Internet, Article 29 of the well-known law is crying for its clients.

                  There are many who are crying. Starting from science fiction writers (with envy) and ending with Good Doctors. hi
                  You to the mental hospital. Moreover, it was I who dissolved that stone and burned the last manuscript of Tartary.

                  Viktor Nikolaevich, you won't believe it, since 2017 I have always had a vague feeling that all the troubles are from Caliber ... what What a base deceit - to deprive us of the real, true, history! laughing drinks
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 16 October 2020 17: 32 New
                    +4
                    I had such thoughts thirty years earlier.
                2. Alexander Sosnitsky
                  Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 00: 07 New
                  -5
                  It is called "I have not read it, but I condemn it." Continuation of the 30s, when the cook was appointed to rule and it is already known what they received. Such impression, total illiteracy.
              2. Alexander Sosnitsky
                Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 23: 59 New
                -4
                I think you are already there waiting for me
              3. Alexander Sosnitsky
                Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 08: 27 New
                -4
                One such clever uncle Sasha from Belarus was also very confident yesterday, and today his backside is on fire. What is your education, how many skirting boards? The answer to the "drunken road" statement.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 32 New
                  +2
                  Caliber, aka Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, until his recent retirement, taught at Penza University, if what
                  1. Alexander Sosnitsky
                    Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 11: 33 New
                    -3
                    links to articles
                    1. Icelord
                      Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 34 New
                      +2
                      Duc look in google he has a lot of books, I gave his last name
                      1. Alexander Sosnitsky
                        Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 11: 54 New
                        -3
                        Well google me too
                      2. Icelord
                        Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 05 New
                        0
                        What for? everything is clear about your writings, you just asked about the caliber
                      3. Alexander Sosnitsky
                        Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 16: 16 New
                        -3
                        I did not ask for the caliber, so everything is clear. Simpletonism
                    2. kalibr
                      kalibr 17 October 2020 20: 57 New
                      +3
                      The concept of the Universal Theory and its applications. Universal scientific and technical formalization.
                      Author: Alexander Sosnitsky
                      ISBN: 978-3-659-80562-2
                      Publisher: LAP LAMBERT Academic Publishing 2015 132s.
                      Googled and that's what happened. If this you have nothing to be proud of. VAK does not recognize books in Lambert. Because they are published in one copy, sold only on order, and are not reviewed by anyone and anywhere. They are even printed with errors. They also have 5 or 6 books, but before it dawned on the Higher Attestation Commission that it was "cheap", at least I got extra rating points in my university and a salary increase. But these are points. The scientific value of such publications is to strive for 0. Anyone can publish any nonsense there for free. What are we talking about ?!
                      Maybe you still have something? No false modesty. Modesty, the French say, is like underwear: one must have, but not show.
                    3. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 20: 59 New
                      -1
                      You are not old enough to read such material. I publish exclusively in Scopus and WoS.
                    4. kalibr
                      kalibr 18 October 2020 08: 37 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
                      I publish exclusively in Scopus and WoS.

                      That is, you also pay for SCOPUS? Well, definitely crazy ... And you have a lot of works published there?
                    5. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 10: 07 New
                      -1
                      Scopus and WoS are free, I recommend getting to know them. Are you wild
                    6. kalibr
                      kalibr 18 October 2020 11: 06 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Scopus and WoS

                      Is the scopus free? The first time I've heard. True, I have not worked at the university since 2017. Maybe something has changed. But I personally still receive offers to publish articles in foreign journals, including the Scopus system, but ... for some reason, for money. Articles in journals recommended by the Higher Attestation Commission are also all paid. And it makes no sense for me to get to know them. They publish me everywhere, and they also pay for it. I haven't worked for free for a long time.
                    7. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 12: 53 New
                      -1
                      A couple of years ago, these magazines began to massively switch to free. I, too, had hardly published there before this date - everything cost up to 1000 euros / dollars, taking into account the trip and registration fee. Then apparently theirs scientific world saw the light and normalized, especially with the connection of socialism to them. Now I receive invitations almost every day from non-Kopus publications and enough from Skopus. My research is labeled "Important Research" as I've seen in their catalogs. They keep records all over the world and know us better than we do. Many provocative proposals. So I lost 300 yusd stupidly checking one of them. In connection with the coronavirus, everyone is switching to online conferences and magazines. After 5 days I got another one. I have about 4-5 Skopus publications in a year, I can't keep up with it anymore. But the way there is a long one, starting from simple participation in conferences to referring to yourself in your next works. You really won't attach Russian-language links anywhere, consider that you don't have them. All these VAK publications are useless. I do not publish anywhere in the former CIS except as Russian versions of English-language articles if they ask me (necessary). But you will have to pay the translator (about 100) and the conference registration fee (+100 120 euros), despite the fact that the translation is done by me and the editing is done by a professional native English speaker or Ph.D. in English. But the most important thing in such articles should be a new scientific idea, and this is almost impossible now. It is possible to hurry up on the sidelines with old ideas. Success
                    8. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 12: 56 New
                      -1
                      I earn money separately
                    9. kalibr
                      kalibr 18 October 2020 13: 25 New
                      +2
                      Well, Alexander, you see - I was right, a lot has changed since 2017. You are a researcher of a new formation and ... God forbid you success on this path. I went my way since 1985 - graduate school at KuSU, well, I wrote my doctoral thesis, but did not defend it. Not profitable in terms of finance! But Lambert also has it, then the Higher Attestation Commission took these publications into account. In the West, I have many articles, both scientific and popular science. But I am translating myself. Four books in Osprey, co-authored with D. Nicolas, are a good confirmation of this. But now all this science has long cared for me. All these invitations from England, France, Slovenia, Norway ... why do I need this? I do not want to make humanity happy with recipes for universal happiness, spit on it by and large, money for a good hotel in Spain, Italy, or Nice is important. So the flag is in hand, and God will help you. But don't be surprised to hear ... things are not very good. People do not like the overthrowers of foundations without steel-concrete arguments at hand. And the degree of Ph.D., and Ph.D., also matters !!! Even in England!
                    10. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 18: 14 New
                      -1
                      In general, I scored a doctorate. They are not in the west, in the east it is a profanation, only a means to steal more money than they invested. But one should not consider people stupid and that it is accidental. Someone is always working on it to destroy knowledge, and then existence. It is impossible to make money from science, it is a parallel independent activity, and it is good that it is not perpendicular. I don't see anyone in the west even paying me for anything. Science is a purely internal hobby. Everyone hates the overthrowers of foundations all the more, but I have a thick hide and reinforced concrete arguments. I will tear everyone apart. But for this you need to have a large liver. I just came back from swimming, swimming in a storm in the sea, jogging, fitness, in the summer months on a sports kayak up to 15 km, and earlier it was 20 or more, and when I was young, up to 40. Honestly, I thought that Russia should be much better. Something is wrong in our kingdom. Good luck.
                    11. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 18: 19 New
                      -1
                      For the sake of interest, I am sending the current annotation of the forthcoming report, mb I violate copyright obligations:
                      Universal Cosmology and Short-Range / Long-Range Theories

                      Alexander V. Sosnitsky1, Anatoly I. Shevchenko2

                      1 Berdyansk State Pedagogical University, Berdyansk, Ukraine
                      E-mail: [email protected]
                      2 Institute of AI Problems of the MES and NAS of Ukraine, Kiev, Ukraine
                      E-mail: [email protected]

                      Abstract: Universalization of knowledge by means of increasing the level of phenomena abstraction up to the achievement of the highest initial Universe's Axiom, for the first time, allows us to obtain the single initial Universal Meta-Formalism that radically develops a general scientific paradigm and, in particular, deduces the new Universal Cosmology that is fundamentally different from the generally accepted Big Bang hypothesis. The Universe is infinite in Space, Time and Matter and naturally develops from non-living to living phenomena Classes with the strengthening of harmonizing properties up to the Supreme Mind, traditionally associated with the concept of God, which for the first time receives a formal definition and becomes a full-fledged object of scientific study. The research was carried out according to the universal scheme of a Conditioned Reflex extended by the Method of Sequential Consistent Concretization of Hypotheses that, in principle, allows complete cognition when making the assumption about the hypothetical character of knowledge, but reveals subsequent contradictions. It is exclusively the volume of the achieved consistent system of concepts that becomes the main criterion of a truth. The Universal Theory, that uses suitable formalisms of the modern science, provides the largest dimensions of this volume. Such a relevant problem is a contradiction between 1) the Class predestination of the Supreme Mind to harmonize the Space-Time-Matter- (STM-) Complex of the Universe into the state of the Harmon and 2) the uncontrollability of the Universe as an infinite unitary whole, according to the existing dogmatic assumptions of short-range and long-range action. The observable dimensions of the Universe of approximately tens of billions of light years are comparable with estimates of its age and fundamentally do not allow intellectual short-range action in the final stage of the Universe evolution and therefore effective access to it. The mechanisms of long-range action are unknown and the well-substantiated ideas of overcoming this problem within the framework of dogmatization are absent. Therefore, the universalization of the problem is the goal of this work. In [A. V. Sosnitsky, A. I. Shevchenko. The Universe Multiphase Meta-Reduction: The Harmon (Mandala), Continuum (Prana), Discretization, Formalization, Knowledge, Cognition, Condensation and Absolute Nothing. Chaotic Modeling and Simulation. In print.], The multi-phase structure of the Universe of 12 coexisting phases between the initial and final states of the Harmon is substantiated. The Harmon is internally unstable and in case of absence of Time instantly disintegrates into the STM-Complex with internal Time, dividing into separate Complexes of Space, Time and Matter. These separate Complexes are continuously increasing due to the disharmonization of the Harmon, presumably keeping the balance of -∂H = ∂S + ∂T + ∂M, where symbols "+/-" mean the structural connectedness / disconnectedness of the Complexes, - ∂H is the Harmon's harmony consumption to increase the Complexes. Supposing there is a constant mutual ratio of the growth of the Complexes, the partial mutual derivatives of the Complexes must be constant. Therefore, ∂S / ∂T = c is presumably the well-known, always constant speed of light in a vacuum, which generates an insuperable short-range action of phenomena and an insolvable problem of controllability of the Universe within the framework of the STM -Complex. However, the Universe simultaneously coexists in all phases, starting with the Harmon, all parts of which, by definition, are directly and completely interconnected in the absence of Time and innately support an absolute short-range action. Therefore, the transition between the STM-Complex and Harmon completely solves the long-range problem. In addition, the phases have loose intersecting boundaries and smoothly mutually transform properties. Therefore, the limited long-range action of the Harmon in the Prana phase can be combined perfectly well with an inchoate weak Time and its partial short-range action, which is a compromise weakening of the problem.
                      Keywords: Universal Theory, Universal Cosmology, short-range, long-range, the multi-phase Universe, Big Bang hypothesis.
                    12. kalibr
                      kalibr 18 October 2020 18: 31 New
                      +1
                      I read it. But I'm not interested at all. Sorry. But money on science and pseudo-scientific publications can be earned and very decent. Do you really think that every year I rode around Europe as a part-time assistant professor, and then even retired?
                    13. Alexander Sosnitsky
                      Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 20: 36 New
                      -1
                      This is extremely interesting. Generalization generally changes knowledge from delusion to truth. It's just that our school is so brainwashing that it makes it impossible to think. Dead end. It's like spring freshness. Everything becomes clear. All problems that you are observed are solved exclusively by UT, and outside of it are not solved in any way. The transition to universal thinking normalizes the individual, society and civilization. How can it be uninteresting? It is not interesting if "the comrade does not understand." I also skated every year, but now I don't count on anyone other than my like-minded people. Civilization is doomed and all cataclysms were predicted 30 years ago and the next too. Disgusting. The highest, as they consider themselves, are also doomed. Unfortunately, you will not be able to read the Universal Theory of Passionarity, analyzing Gumilyov, those birth of ethnic groups. This is an oscillating dead end. Everything clears up from a formal (scientific) point of view
                2. kalibr
                  kalibr 18 October 2020 18: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
                  I just came back from swimming, swimming in a storm in the sea, jogging, fitness, in the summer months on a sports kayak up to 15 km, and before it was 20 or more, and in youth up to 40.

                  This really impresses me!
                3. Alexander Sosnitsky
                  Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 20: 46 New
                  0
                  But this is purely personal and elementary simple. There are no secrets. 150 years minimum is estimated to be guaranteed and confirmed by history. My ancestors by genealogy lived for several thousand years. It is documented. Because they were warriors and were pumped into wars continuously, which then lasted for days and weeks. 115,135, 155 years lived Norwegians and northerners. Also forgotten by history. Our tribe knows nothing about this. Cossack Otamans lived for 160 years, hereditary Cossacks. Read Taras Bulba. "By the age of 90, a real Cossack only enters into force." Tibetans. Approved terms of 250 years of life for them, naturally without docks. So no miracles, the truth. Take an example.
                4. kalibr
                  kalibr 18 October 2020 21: 38 New
                  -1
                  In my opinion, all these are fairy tales, besides, in order to swim 40 km a day, you have to swim all day. You know, I never liked anything that was too much. Too much health, too much science, too much dreaming about the benefits of humanity. I don’t trust such people. They seem crazy to me. Even if they are 100 times right. They are crazy. I do not like to be like everyone else. I can not stand. But it's not like everyone else, it's also bad. For this there is a hammer and they are beaten a little on the head or treated with electrosleep until the turn of haloperidol comes ... And the fact that civilization is doomed was argued by many back in 1900. But ... So I was once again convinced that my observations of psychologists and philosophers are correct ... Here's another ... "rescuer". But since it is impossible to forbid a person to be interested - "take an interest" further ... I wish you success so far!
                5. Alexander Sosnitsky
                  Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 22: 05 New
                  -1
                  I probably didn’t say that I was doing rowing, but volume 1) they walk and do not swim and 2) this is a real mileage of 15-20 40. Further, everything new is obtained today only on the limits, otherwise we become philistines or middle peasants who have no experience to achieve the highest. Here I disagree with you. the fact is that our body, including the brain, in the process of natural selection, has written these qualities into genes. Anything that doesn't kill us strengthens. The quality of the philistine generates a denial of progress and kills the subject in the end, necessarily irresistible. There are my applications to biological taxonomy that open my eyes to this. It is a lifesaving factor to work beyond the bounds, not fatal in this way. If you do not fall into the traps, then this will guarantee you a long, successful life. Checked theory and practice.
              4. Icelord
                Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 37 New
                +1
                Oh, these fairy tales, oh, these storytellers (s). If your "scientific" work is the same, I will definitely read it. I haven't laughed like that in a long time
          2. Icelord
            Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 33 New
            +1
            there are no doctors of sciences in the west? This is news, it will be necessary for my sister and her husband to tell that they have 30 years as glitches, and a couple of dozen more relatives and friends living just in the "west" laughing
          3. Alexander Sosnitsky
            Alexander Sosnitsky 26 October 2020 12: 32 New
            -1
            Our doctors of sciences are not there, there is their doctor of philosophy - PhD. This is not quite what we have and strong. Ours should be immediately dismissed after defense because of the uselessness, because even a laboratory assistant cannot take them. And they have powerful anti-corruption defense mechanisms, read
            in English USA. They have the head of the department, and we have the manager. The choice we have is this - either to become a doctor or a scientist, since this rubbish takes a lifetime. Pose posture yesterday reported with a bang, shock.
          4. Icelord
            Icelord 26 October 2020 12: 42 New
            0
            Well, just revelation after revelation, my sister, like her husband, however, they defended themselves in Kiev, and nothing, there is quite a doctor, and Leonid (this is a husband) is a professor in general, and not just anywhere but in a Jesuit college (this is very prestigious university) and not something but biochemistry, that is, you need to know here and not just be able to chat
          5. Alexander Sosnitsky
            Alexander Sosnitsky 26 October 2020 13: 14 New
            -1
            It may well be, but I broke with Kiev. For me there is no one there, just like in Moscow. Belarus is a little more modest. USA, yes, better. I am in contact with the strong, the ultimate. But this is the edge, the limit of modern science. In our countries, there was even a very potential, but Soviet. At 160 - 300 rubles a month, everyone ran away. But the bulk did not hold out, but grew rapidly. Now there is no one to talk to.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 October 2020 14: 36 New
    +3
    Sosnitsky, are you, by any chance, not from the glorious city of Berdyansk?
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 18: 03 New
    -1
    That's right, it's me
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 October 2020 19: 00 New
    +6
    That's what, I see, the name is familiar. And what prompted you to descend to us, sires, from the heights of the creation of the branch Theory of the Great Unification?
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 20: 25 New
    -1
    not an industry but a universal theory. there is a possibility of this. very interesting
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 October 2020 20: 50 New
    +4
    I understand that it is "universal". By "industry" I mean your, shall we say, professional field of activity and the underlying paradigm.
    But you evaded the answer.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 20: 55 New
    -1
    Right. But if we put the Universal Axiom as its basis, then it becomes Universal, those embracing the entire Universe, from which we in our status of people will not be able to leave. Only in the status of God. Everything is defined by univ formalisms. By the way, an annotation is given below, where we get to the formalism of the Supreme Reason as well. He is the first object of scientific research at UT
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 October 2020 21: 10 New
    +5
    Aren't you afraid to go to the fire? True, heretics are not burned now, but they can betray anathema. Or have you decided to overcome the contradictions between science and religion in the conceptual issue of the creation of the Universe and create a theory that is unified from the scientific and religious points of view?
    And what about experimental confirmation of such a grandiose plan? Or do you also deny the need for experimental confirmation of the theory?
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 21: 52 New
    -1
    When you rise to the limit of the universe, it becomes impossible to verify the facts. Because there are large ambiguous distances between concepts. Until now, the disastrous theories of the Big Bang, relativity, and so on reign in science. Other methods of proof work there, we will not elaborate, but they exist. I will just say that the works of the truly world genius Academician Ivan Pavlov, Nobel laureate, underlie these proofs, tied to the proof by me. The scientific world is extremely conservative. Moreover, he is not smart. Ordinary people can understand more easily, because they are not compiled by generally accepted dogmas, and among learned men they are washed by dogmas like an old maid. I refused to publish at all in Ukraine and Russia for this reason. They cannot think of themselves and understand another. This is rigorously tested. Scientific world db. I thought, what if they are the same in the west, this will be the real death of humanity. No, it worked out there. Moreover, they are looking for originals and new ideas. Those we will live, but not at the expense of these two related countries. Univ Theory includes a grounded part of modern science and adds new grounded ideas to it, expanding the system of concepts. In addition, she identified basic concepts that are not in use, but completely coincide with Vedic knowledge, such as Mandala, Prana, Yin / Yang, etc. Formulas are received. Even more, it fully correlates with the Old and New Testaments and explains it. So no anathema threatens UT. A new world of knowledge is opening up, developing the well-known proven axiomatic paradigm of Bourbaki and the ancient theory of Plato / Aristotle.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 21: 56 New
    -1
    Indeed, UT is becoming a new reliable religion - faith, as mathematics and physics are today, but unlike them, it does not have internal and external contradictions. But this is not a religion of faith, but of knowledge, the ratio of which is moving towards knowledge.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 18 October 2020 22: 18 New
    +5
    Are Bourbaki French mathematicians?
    Your theory is like a hybrid of scientific creationism and pataphysics. In the West, such ideas are much better than ours. And the USA is so simply Mecca. You can even organize your own church, such as "Adventists of the Great Unification" and calmly cut the fleece from the gullible laity "for scientific research."
  • kalibr
    kalibr 19 October 2020 08: 57 New
    +3
    I gave my students the task to come up with a new religion. The first place was taken by machinism - worship of the supercomputer. The emblem is a gear with a cross and a crescent. Nuns are typists, priests are programmers, dad is a great machinist ... there was a lot of interesting things there. And most importantly, it was obvious that it would be possible to cut a lot of attendants!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 19 October 2020 08: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
    When you rise to the limit of the universe, it becomes impossible to verify the facts.

    Ltd! This is scary. Because you can't check. And I will reveal to you the secret that for a long time already exalted and God himself, personally, appeared to me in a dream and discovered that ... I am doing everything right and HE is on my side! So I don't have to swim 40 km on a boat to be healthy, to understand everything and write two articles a day. All this is pleasing to the Lord, he told me so himself, so what are you talking about? That God deceived me, and revealed the truth to you? Where is the proof? I personally believe my God more than yours ...
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 10: 47 New
    -1
    Trust your God, he will lead you where you need to. You cannot interrupt the inference chain. Any sequence leads to God (in fact, I call it all scientific concepts), where to start. This was one of the important stones in the beginning of the justification for UT. We will all meet where there will be UT but developed to full knowledge. I am 40 km away, Christ is 40 days in the desert, hermits and his followers saved Christianity because they left the world. Everything is done on the edge, but with intelligence and confidence not false. This is my faith, I do not impose it, but I answer for it before the Universe
  • Icelord
    Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 44 New
    +1
    As always, you confused everything, it was not Christ who staggered in the desert, but Moses laughing
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 26 October 2020 12: 23 New
    -1
    Before preaching, Jesus went into the wilderness on a "diet." Don't be so easy about yourself and others. If people say something, you need to listen carefully to them with respect to the interlocutor and familiarize yourself with the topic of the conversation and clarify, but not in an affirmative sense. Moses walked for 40 years, it was a planned progressive revolution of the people to whom he dedicated his life. He went to God, wore the tablets, then broke them, scattered the golden calf in the sands. By the way, do you know the commandments of Moses? Christ? And Abraham? But in vain. Immediately I give you 2 in advance, in your style. By the way, I almost finished theological seminary.
  • Icelord
    Icelord 26 October 2020 12: 47 New
    +1
    Well, I accept your reproach, I really didn’t notice that you have 40 days, not years.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 26 October 2020 13: 06 New
    -1
    very good, the argument gives rise to truth. and yet everything is born on the edges, the delay is like death, but the actions must be smart, reliable. Right now I was watching the Tikhanovskaya-Lukashenko conflict. Nice guy, but half, and no other half. The manager, I would say the warehouse manager with all due respect to him. To have an excellent student and not find her a job in Belarus is a crime committed by our thoughtless people. from usually db + selfishness is immeasurable a whole national problem. The world is governed by knowledge, not by the classes of Marx. Knowledge that generates passionarity. Those education really is. New knowledge that is on the edge. And so is our whole history. Therefore, there is a lot of corruption in our countries, because initiative people have no way out into normal politics, but only through easier deception. First of all, leaders should give an outlet to just such people, but clearly turn them to the common good, and for this they must be highly literate and lead such people. God grant such a mind, let's hope
  • Icelord
    Icelord 26 October 2020 13: 58 New
    +2
    You know, I would not like to try to argue with you further, you will not convince me, as well as I will. But please clarify one question, why do you always switch to Belarus? Does this particularly bother you? However, I don't expect an answer, this is of course your own business
  • Undecim
    Undecim 19 October 2020 09: 53 New
    +6
    When you rise to the limit of the universe, it becomes impossible to verify the facts.
    Here you are wrong. There are several ways, if not a complete check, then at least control the progress of the process.
    The easiest is to monitor your own shadow. As soon as you see such a picture, immediately contact the specialists in Jungian analysis, they will determine if you are on the right path.

    The correctness of further movement is controlled by the methodology described in this manual.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 10: 56 New
    -1
    By the way, in June I held a web report at the USA on the normalization of mental health, they do not lag behind me again demand. An actual topic, everything is controlled by info and intellect, and in the world there are growing problems such as incurable autism, etc. I have to disappoint you, you are going straight down this path, judging by the links. It is really difficult to heal so a self-determined system, those of itself. Do you know what it is? For example, the Universe came from nothing, they self-determined how it happened. So is the person, the microcosm. It is impossible to get into his mind only through his logical filter. So try to normalize it. No way. This is the most dangerous incurable disease. Be careful. So far, you have all the signs, but hope for the best.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 19 October 2020 11: 50 New
    +2
    And I have a textbook for higher school "Technologies of Public Opinion Management" (publishing house Infra-Engineering), yet, it seems, not all circulation is sold out. Can be purchased online. Everything there is not so clever, but simple and effective, based on examples from experience, including mine. How can you ... control the opinion of tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people. I was doing this, there was a case ...
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 11: 58 New
    0
    Thanks for the hint, I'll take a look. But I am not fond of manipulating opinions and do not impose them, but I am waiting for the formation of a new personality homo universalis to replace homo dogmaticus. Then it's complete. And then you see before our eyes people dress up in opposite skins. The first sign of inferiority. Defective is not my object. They themselves will leave. I do not expect money for my work, maximum fame and help from mb. You can spin the wave. I'm sure someone is already following this. But they don't need us. They move their own. The world is tense. He keeps people in check, otherwise they will jerk so that there will be no living left. I'm actually doing AI. I’ll make a robot and live with it.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 19 October 2020 12: 12 New
    +1
    Here's to you, Alexander, I will tell you what real benefit was from all these comments and views of this article. 417 comments is a very good result. And 34 thousand views, which does not reach 50 thousand, but also good. Good for the site, since the more clicks and comments, the higher its investment attractiveness. This is the only thing that matters. For other things, the 90 + 1 rule applies. Its essence is that 90% of readers of all this in 90 days will forget 99% of what was written and on 91 days they will be able to repeat all this in slightly different words. All this has been proven many times and works very effectively.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 12: 23 New
    -1
    I admire you, this is the result. We know how, if professionally, only where such data come from. 417 views, where and what? I am not Copenhagen. 34 views? But your reactivity pleases. There is a real grip. How to use it? Moreover, I'm very busy.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 19 October 2020 12: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
    I admire you, this is the result. We know how, if professionally, only where such data come from. 417 views, where and what? I am not Copenhagen. 34 views? But your reactivity pleases

    417, already 419 - COMMENTS, and 34 895 views. Not everyone who looks at the article and considers write comments, and vice versa, many commentators write a lot of comments. Here you are, for example, and the task ... to make them write them even more, answering accordingly, using certain words ... Choosing topics. My article about flags got 72 thousand views ... And to find out how much is easy - you can see under the title of the article. "Eye" is views. A circle with an arrow - comments, that is, there is written both the number of views (clicks, it doesn't matter if the person just opened the page or read) and comments. By the way, I have another textbook for the Higher School "Internet Journalism and Internet Advertising". But this one seems to have sold out all. There, everything is described in detail how to raise the rating of an online publication and an author. You sit, write another article, and periodically look at who and what wrote to you. You answer quickly and write on. That's all...
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 12: 39 New
    -2
    I understood a little, I will watch. thanks
  • Undecim
    Undecim 19 October 2020 20: 18 New
    +3
    The universe came from nothing
    And where did nothing come from? Apparently, this "nothing" is all the same what it was. As for the "signs", don't worry about me. You are not the first one with such pretzels who I have met. There are no others, but those are far away ...
    But the fact that you have access to the unformed minds of students, this raises serious concerns.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 23: 10 New
    -1
    Man is a limited and sinful being, usually not understanding. This is his normal state. I do not publish in our brotherly countries. Exclusively far abroad. Therefore, nothing threatens your loved ones.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 19 October 2020 23: 20 New
    +3
    Man is a limited and sinful being, usually not understanding.
    I felt drawn to familiar motives. Also sprach Zarathustra. Übermensch.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 19 October 2020 23: 59 New
    -1
    Read the Bible, sergeant. New Testament especially
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 20 October 2020 00: 01 New
    -1
    We are all so in varying degrees that no offense
  • Undecim
    Undecim 20 October 2020 06: 52 New
    +5
    Read the bible, unter
    Is rudeness also an attribute of rising to the limit of the Universe?
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 20 October 2020 10: 58 New
    0
    No rudeness, I hate it. But I adore the truth, I cannot live without it. Everything is frank without false concealment. If someone is offended, it can be experienced as a stimulus for development, which actually saves, not destroys. They insult me ​​all the time, but my skin has grown impenetrable and I answer adequately without offense. The doctor treats the patient, but does not say "sick" and he must be killed. So the teacher diagnoses and must teach in order to live. In Russia, it was customary for children to thank their father for the punishment "thank you dad for the science." Today it is being made thinner. And rudeness is a stupid hopeless destruction of the individual. Don't be confused.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 20 October 2020 11: 04 New
    +3
    That is, you see yourself as a "dad", and assign me the role of "kids"?
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 20 October 2020 12: 19 New
    0
    Don't be so harsh, it's an abstract expression. I do not press anyone, but on the contrary I give freedom of choice, but with personal responsibility. All people are equal. However, other opinions are importantly useful, one must always think and learn. Life is infinitely difficult. I do not impose anything
  • Undecim
    Undecim 20 October 2020 12: 33 New
    +3
    You would have written an article for the site. Something like "The Universal Struggle. Progressors Against Dogmatists." Or modestly - "Notes of a demiurge".
    And the dull guano of local altistorians no longer invigorates.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 20 October 2020 17: 35 New
    0
    It would be possible, today our scientists themselves do not understand a lot, let alone politicians and statesmen. Somehow earlier there was more respect for knowledge, in the old days they generally worshiped. And now vulgaris is closer in thought and deed, cynicism, lack of respect for true values. "the dull guano of local altistorians" has not invigorated me for a long time, which prompted me to start clearing up my thoughts, those fundamental thoughts. But they are looking ahead to these thoughts and further as it turns out. And people in the mass do not possess the dynamism of their perception. And if you explain them scientifically and systematically, they don't understand. Accustomed to cartoons. Therefore, I published a book which is quoted here by LAMBERT publishing house, but it rather loads even more and followers are needed who would popularize it with real examples of what depends on what and how it manifests itself. I agree with you. But I want to note that the RF looks better compared to the rest of the world. I can send a file if you give an address or phone number, I will find
    in the vibeer.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 20 October 2020 18: 02 New
    +4
    To be honest, I am not suitable for the role of "follower and popularizer" in this particular case. Quite the opposite. If this is not an obstacle for you, I can drop the email in a personal.
  • Alexander Sosnitsky
    Alexander Sosnitsky 20 October 2020 19: 54 New
    0
  • Icelord
    Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 52 New
    +2
    No, Viktor Nikolaevich, such a book is needed here
  • Icelord
    Icelord 26 October 2020 06: 40 New
    +2
    eh, Viktor Nikolaevich, how sometimes I miss the Inquisition and auto-da-fe recourse
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 16 October 2020 15: 51 New
    +3
    And why is our current semi-feudal, rent-based model of the state better than others?
  • pytar
    pytar 16 October 2020 15: 53 New
    +8
    I said that I cleaned out the information on the network. Rosette is a small town in the North of the USA (not to be confused with UFOs)

    It turns out we are discussing a non-existent vesch that someone showed somewhere and then disappeared, right? That is, it is impossible to check the reliability of this hardening!
    where a 140 thousand-year-old stone was excavated, hydrocarbon analysis with the image of a face and the inscription BAB YARA as I wrote it here.

    Dear Alexander, radiocarbon dating, a form of radioisotope dating, and is used to determine age organic remains! It is not applicable to stones and other inorganic materials. And here is radioisotope dating, applicable. In that case, it can give rise to the geological formation of the stone, but not on the inscription. There are other methods for determining the age of inscriptions and barriers, but they do not always give accurate, reliable results. By hydrocarbon analysis, I don't know what you mean? Although, yes ... chemical analysis of the surface is also used to determine the age of the objects. This is how the depth of the impact on the environment is determined and the estimated time of this impact is calculated. The depth of impact on the surface of the stone is greater than on the surface of the inscription. hi
    One more thing, I'll tell you! Even if your story is real, the symbols created once in antiquity do not always have their present meaning, although they may outwardly be similar to the present ones. For example, the character-drawing-hieroglyph from the Egyptian pyramid, which looks like a helicopter, is not a helicopter!
    1. Alexander Sosnitsky
      Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 00: 18 New
      -4
      I am not a specialist in this matter, but I draw your attention to these facts, which destroy the generally accepted conclusions of modern science in favor of Fomenko's theory. In general, I suspect the entire modern science of falsifications, the most famous of which is the so-called theory of relativity, the criticism of which was equated with criticism of Marxism, why in the 30s the theory departments of scientific institutes of that time were sent to the Gulag for 10 years without the right to correspond (they were shot). I think that this is also unknown to dear readers. This theory does not work as it is presented. I spent a year after graduation to figure it out, until I realized that she was not there. At the same time, it has a scientific meaning, but not the one that is attributed to it. They are trying to save her, but she is not saved, like the dollar. So everything else. It seems that someone really wants to destroy the entire civilization through the destruction of knowledge. But this is utopia. People are not allowed to overcome the laws of the Universe, only Gods
      1. pytar
        pytar 17 October 2020 00: 38 New
        +1
        I am not a specialist in this matter, but I draw your attention to these datawhich destroy the generally accepted conclusions of modern science in favor of Fomenko's theory.

        In the given case it is not facts, their existence is not as confirmed. And Fomenko and science are opposite things. He's a charlatan.
        In general, I suspect all modern science of falsifications, the most famous of which is the so-called theory of relativity ...

        I draw your attention to the fact that it is about theory! The model described in theory may turn out to be erroneous, at least in some of its parts, it may be correct. According to the mayor, the accumulation of new knowledge is changing / modified and theories.
        why in the 30s the theory departments of scientific institutes of that time were sent to the Gulag for 10 years without the right of correspondence

        Yes, one could get in the gulags for anything! The terror machine, often did not take away, but simply delivered the required amount of labor.
        It seems that someone really wants to destroy the entire civilization through the destruction of knowledge.

        I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but there are people who willingly believe. A question of psychology.
        People are not allowed to overcome the laws of the Universe, only Gods

        God, this is the highest Knowledge! The laws of the Universe are part of this Knowledge! Having created a person in his own image and likeness, the Lord gave him a thirst, a craving for Knowledge! We already know some things, we don’t know many things, but we learn, we will explore! And God gives light to investigators, opens doors for them, along the path of knowledge!
        1. Alexander Sosnitsky
          Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 01: 17 New
          -5
          You have one central mistake, like most of the writers here: you assume that you know what you are claiming and do not even provide a justification for what makes you dilettantes. In fact, you raise many topics that have no basis in modern science, not to mention the commoners. You have to be very careful for a serious conversation, otherwise disrespect immediately arises. Boyhood. What are facts, theories and models are the unsolved problems of modern science, and artistic assumptions of modern scientific philosophy. I will personally inform you that all knowledge, including facts, is subjective and there are nothing more than hypotheses that can be substantiated, but always partially. Therefore, any teaching may well be refined by the following more complete teaching an infinite number of times. Swearing like this in this forum cannot be done, which betrays the amateurishness of such participants and the unwillingness to hear a different point of view (hypothesis). For example, Uncle Sasha from Belarus was absolutely confident in his relations with the whole world, and I watched with horror this utopia on the border with the enemy's world, which has no happy resolution in any way because of all its participants. If so, you can lose everything. That's the only thing I wanted to say on the forum, that you have to be able to respectfully listen to everyone, otherwise it will turn out as indicated. Knowledge develops, and ignorance destroys. DBs do not last long. I see a rational thought in the teachings of Fomenko, which should be rationally refined.
  • kalibr
    kalibr 16 October 2020 16: 57 New
    +5
    Quote: Alexander Sosnitsky
    hydrocarbon analysis

    Oil or what?
  • Inorus
    Inorus 16 October 2020 15: 03 New
    10
    "Rosetta stone - a slab of granodiorite, found in 1799 in Egypt near the small town of Rosetta, not far from Alexandria, with three texts, identical in meaning, engraved on it, including two in the ancient Egyptian language - inscribed with ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs and Egyptian demotic writing", ... And what does North America have to do with it?
  • BAI
    BAI 16 October 2020 20: 00 New
    +4
    The 140 thousand year old Rosette stone contained a text in purely Russian. This is North America.




    1. This is Egypt.
    2. Where is the Russian text on the stone?
    3.
    Three identical texts in three languages ​​are written on the stone, which is part of the one and a half meter stele. The slab bears an inscription of thanks addressed to the king of Egypt, Ptolemy V Epiphanes. It is dated 196 BC. e., then Egypt belonged to the Ptolemaic dynasty.

    Where is 140 years old here?
    The work on deciphering the texts was long and difficult - despite the presence of three translations, it was possible to decipher them only in 1822.

    First, the Greek text was translated as a result of the joint work of the French librarians Gabriel de La Porte du Teil and Hubert Pascal Ameillon. In 1803, a Latin and French translation of the Greek passage was issued.

    Next, it was possible to decipher the demotic text using the existing developments of the Swedish scientist David Åkerblad. The Frenchman Sylvester de Sacy helped to complete his work, and in 1802 Oakerblad formed an alphabet of 29 letters.

    Hieroglyphs were the most difficult task - in those years, scientists knew nothing about the writing of Ancient Egypt. French scientist Jean-François Champollion spent years studying this slab, and in 1822 showed the world a translation of an ancient Egyptian text. Champollion was recognized as the founder of Egyptology - thanks to his decipherment, a huge breakthrough was made in the study of this civilization, and the key to understanding the Egyptian writing in general was opened.

    To me, in order to understand for myself - what could give reason here to think that this stone is related to Russia?
    1. BAI
      BAI 16 October 2020 21: 01 New
      +6
      My computer even hung on from this stone.
      If we are talking about the American "Rosette Stone", then this is the romantic name of a large stone vessel resembling a drinking bowl, and now known as Fuente Magna, found by a rural peasant from the Chua hacienda, located in the vicinity of Lake Titicaca, 75-80 km from the city of La Paz, Bolivia.

      But there is no Russian here either.
      PS. On the oldest Russian artifact, the Blue Stone in Pereslavl-Zalessky, there are also no inscriptions in Russian. Even "Vasya was here."
      1. Alexander Sosnitsky
        Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 00: 32 New
        -5
        You just don't know anything, apparently the result of modern education. Primitive attitude to the topic. Dig deeper and look for the Rosette stone, which was written about a lot 30-40 years ago. Perhaps I inaccurately name the place where it was found (Amer language), but its dating is of Russian origin 140 thousand years ago. Now I can not find a single link to it. And there are many such hidden facts.
        1. Tamparu
          Tamparu 17 October 2020 15: 47 New
          -1
          Dig deeper and look for the Rosette stone, which was written about a lot 30-40 years ago. Perhaps I inaccurately name the place where it was found (Amer language), but of Russian origin 140 thousand years ago, its dating

          I read about this stone 10-15 years ago. In the internet, this infa was still. I can't find it now. Although I can't find much already. Information is destroyed / hidden ...
          1. Alexander Sosnitsky
            Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 16: 14 New
            -2
            Well done, and the other thing I said was also. People are extremely frivolous about knowledge and their history, even with advanced degrees
  • Local from the Volga
    Local from the Volga 20 October 2020 02: 47 New
    +1
    Whatooo ?! Why are you an art researcher ?! Rosetta stone in Russian ?! 140 thousand years ?! Go pick mushrooms in the pine forest!
  • Operator
    Operator 16 October 2020 13: 23 New
    +7
    The word "Tatars" in Russia meant all Turkic-speaking peoples: Mongols, numerous varieties of Tatars, in fact, Kazakhs, Kirghiz, Azerbaijanis, Turks in fact, Buryats, Turkmen, Uzbeks, etc. etc. Those. the Tatars of that time are what today are called the Turks.

    The Türkic language is the native language of the Mongols (Tungus), as their Asian conquests, it became the language of assimilated peoples. The conquered peoples such as the Turkomans further spread the Turkic language throughout Asia (for example, to Azerbaijanis and Anatolians).

    Despite several invasions of the Turkic-speaking peoples in Europe (Huns, Khazars, Bulgars, Mongol-Tatars), the speakers of the Turkic language now constitute an insignificant part of the European population (Crimean and Kazan Tatars, Kalmyks, Bashkirs, Karachais, Balkars and some others). The reason: the rejection of an alien linguistic and cultural element by the overwhelming majority of Europeans who speak Indo-European languages, which are based on the Sanskrit of the European Aryans.

    Therefore, we Europeans (in the overwhelming majority of the descendants of the Aryans, Celts and Illyrians) have no common genetic and cultural ties with the Turkic-speaking Asians (in the overwhelming majority of the descendants of the Mongols and Northern Semites) there is no word at all.

    PS The map given in the article requires significant adjustments - the largest part of the territory of Asia (namely, the northern regions) until the 16th century was inhabited not by Tatars, but by non-Türkic-speaking Samoyeds, Finno-Ugrians, Chukchi, Eskimos and Kamchadals. Even the Turkic-speaking Yakuts came to the place of their current settlement from the south not earlier than the 16th century.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 16 October 2020 13: 31 New
      -5
      that is, someone in the west was able to draw relatively accurately the shores of the Arctic, but at the same time he did not know who lives on them and to whom they belong?
      1. Operator
        Operator 16 October 2020 13: 41 New
        +4
        The map is hybrid - the contours of the continents are modern, the cartouche in the upper left corner is drawn from the old map.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 16 October 2020 14: 20 New
          -8
          and on those maps it was not mentioned to whom these territories belonged and who lives there?
          and where did those old maps come from? who drew them?
    2. Alexander Sosnitsky
      Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 13: 54 New
      -10 qualifying.
      This is a modern, observable history, and humanity is several million years old, at least one million, when there was already a language. Why do I say this, because there are many ancient facts covered only in Soviet scientific literature. Take this: Baikal was part of a rift from the Northern Ocean to the Mediterranean Sea through the Azov, Aral and Caspian Sea. 800 thousand years ago, he disappeared. So the oral legends of local people transmitted this until the time of scientific expeditions in the 1960s, today all participants have naturally died out. During this time, everything has changed many times. But one thing is clear, this territory was inhabited by white people of the same origin, which comes from the Aryans and even earlier. Now it is inherited by Russians and Turks as a partial assimilation of Russians by blacks. The West arose from the Rus (if you call them that), since the West has nowhere to run further in the world / oceans / mountains (Alps), so the western world arose, which for several thousand years ate its own like other animals. Russia is based on a plain where there is nowhere to run, so it was scattered. In my opinion, Ukraine took place not as a border (this is partly true) between the Gumilyov route from Asia to Europe and the northern part, but as a shelter, since there is nowhere to run away like underground, which is why Ukraine is dug up and down. For example, from Tokmak to Berdyansk there was an underground tunnel for transporting goods to the Sea of ​​Azov (about 100 km). But people are genetically mixed, but in a stable subset, which makes up the type of something Tartar (Tai, Tar - land, territory).
      1. Operator
        Operator 16 October 2020 14: 03 New
        +5
        According to genetics, the common ancestor of the Sapiens separated from the great apes 3 million years ago, the ancestor of the Neanderthals separated from the Sapiens 600 thousand years ago, the ancestor of the Homo Sapiens separated from the Sapiens 220 thousand years ago.

        In other words, modern mankind (Sapiens and Neanderthals became extinct) is only 220 thousand years old.
        1. Alexander Sosnitsky
          Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 14: 33 New
          -8
          there were numbers closer to 300-400 thousand years ago. but 220 thousand is no longer 28-30 thousand as I was taught at school. we will live up to 800 thousand sciences, this is new knowledge that is developing. wait until they develop. but there is talk about our 5th civilization. there are artifacts about a billion years of humanity. in such a spread, nothing can be absolutized
          1. Alexander Sosnitsky
            Alexander Sosnitsky 16 October 2020 14: 35 New
            -9
            Someone shakes my minus, apparently non-Russian people
            1. Icelord
              Icelord 17 October 2020 11: 42 New
              +3
              I didn’t minus, but I suppose it’s just Russians, they don’t like that they crap in their story, so I’m a Pole and I don’t care, but it’s a shame for the story, and my mother was half Russian.
              1. Alexander Sosnitsky
                Alexander Sosnitsky 17 October 2020 11: 53 New
                -3
                In general, I defend the Russians, who are crap purely out of principle all over the world. I myself am more Ukrainian. Nasty is a form of fascism. In fact, in this forum, bots biased against Russia are commenting. I love and respect all nations without exception. but against all untruth. The untruth destroys everything and everyone. If everyone spoke and did the truth, everyone would live in chocolate. Modern man does not belong to homo sapiens, he is not sapiens at all, but more and more goes into the animal world. But I'm not there. It's a shame for humanity. Throw dangerous words into our fragile world.
            2. irontom
              irontom 18 October 2020 11: 47 New
              0
              Class - who is not with me ........, heavy arguments went into business.
              I wonder what you mean by Russian people. How is it you have correctly argued racially. Maybe I don't fall into this category. You will measure your skulls.
      2. Icelord
        Icelord 17 October 2020 12: 25 New
        +2
        Who dug a tunnel from Tokmak to Berdyansk russoarii or protoukry? And than a plasma multi-blaster from the planet Nubiru?
        1. Alexander Sosnitsky
          Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 12: 27 New
          -2
          Guys, if you don't know, then you have to ask. Who dug? I definitely don't. There was the Ottoman Empire, the Nogais from the Golden Horde, Sarmatians and Scythians, etc. Nubiru is not seen. In general, you need to drink in moderation, for health. And there is a tunnel, for 100 tanks (you can in rubles) I will find and show you. In the area with. Shevchenkovo ​​along the highway to Melitopol, the collapsed exit to the sea the width of a cart with gaps in the Dmitrovka area and stretches further. Underground. And who knows what you have? All drank
          1. Icelord
            Icelord 18 October 2020 12: 29 New
            0
            and a deep tunnel then? No sarcasm, interesting
            1. Alexander Sosnitsky
              Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 12: 35 New
              -2
              I don't know, I haven't, but I've heard a lot. I think their small height is 160-170 cm. In the 80s, one villager went into a failure and allegedly found a rich treasure, after which he honestly reported to the authorities and disappeared. The family was taken away by force to the other side. I myself have heard retellings of that time, passed from ear to ear. I think that historically a lot of valuable things lie in the ground. But if the pyramids were not in Egypt, but in our country, our nimble ones would have been dismantled long ago. Ivans do not remember kinship.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 16 October 2020 13: 36 New
    10
    laughing Our song is good, start from the beginning. The song "About the secret of the Russian Horde and Great Tartary". laughing , or rather a retelling of the "works" of N. I. Vasilyeva, Yu. D. Petukhov. Apparently they are poorly sold. Article for advertising purposes. laughing
    1. TAMBU
      TAMBU 16 October 2020 13: 52 New
      10
      for sure ... I forgot about Petukhov ... I remembered the name of this obscurantist for a long time ...
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 16 October 2020 14: 12 New
        +8
        That's right. laughing Apparently the day today is Friday, the sixteenth .. laughing
  • pivnik
    pivnik 16 October 2020 13: 49 New
    -9
    The invasion of the "horde" of course, there was a lot of evidence of this, but here is my case about "the reliability of history as a science." I had a chance to communicate with one comrade, it was even before all this "alternative" history - in the USSR, like there was no sex. He served in the 80s in Mongolia and what struck him most of all was not the local way of life, but there it is still a story. And the fact that they were very grateful to the Russians for what we told them about “Genghis Khan” - what kind of “great” ancestors they had ...
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 16 October 2020 13: 53 New
      +3
      Nothing strange, many peoples did not know their history well before universal education in the 20th century.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 16 October 2020 14: 21 New
    +6
    ... to confuse the Russians, cut them off and ...

    Quite right! This is exactly how it was. No wonder, in the lines of the song from the folk epic that have come down to us, we read the following words:
    Tired of living in Ryazan
    And dance a square dance all my life.
    Do, Vanya, circumcision
    And let's go to Israel!
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 14: 35 New
      +7
      Do, Vanya, circumcision
      And let's go to Israel!

      Reminded a classic laughing :
      He shouted: "There is a mistake!
      I'm a Jew! "
      And to him: "Not very much here!
      Get out the door! "
      drinks
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 16 October 2020 14: 41 New
    13
    I read the article an hour ago, I still cry ...
    And some comments ... no, it's just some kind of extravaganza, fire! Special thanks to Dodik, everything in him, from nick to the last thought set out here, is wonderful for his spontaneity, sincerity, childish desire to bring knowledge to others. So I look forward to a comment from him in the style of "You finally understand that I am right!"
    In general, the article is wonderful. It is remarkable in that the author has set himself a very difficult goal, the achievement of which, however, should significantly complicate the life of the "official history". And this goal, no more, no less, how to unite the teachings of two "giants of historical thought" - engineer Petukhov and mathematician Fomenko. But there is a small problem - there are so many contradictions in these "teachings" that it is almost impossible to link them into something unified.
    Unbearable? No matter how it is! And here we have before us the fruit of the author's incredible mental efforts. do not care that Fomenko's history lasts nothing at all, well, there are ten centuries, no more, and Petukhov's - ten millennia no less, it doesn't matter. And there and there "ten":
    Coincidence? I do not think.

    So Tartary is getting a little older, and the rest of the world is a little younger, that's all.
    I look forward to seeing how Valery Chudinov's works will fit into this coherent picture - this story clearly lacks personalities, everything is somehow too general. And then Ivan Emmanuilovich Sineus-Sokolov will immediately appear, with his wife Vasilisa the Wise, plus, Mars is also ours, this is a significant acquisition, a springboard, which, taking into account the upcoming war with the Annunaki and Reptilians, whom our ancestors have already courageously defeated once. And above all this, the royal haplogroup R1a named after Anatoly Klyosov shines ...
    Forward author! There is still a lot of work to do, there is no time to rest on the laurels of a winner, otherwise they will turn into a fire of a martyr ...
    laughing wassat laughing
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 16 October 2020 15: 34 New
      +4
      Yours said to mine, look - you will laugh, you will live a long time, and then just a tear will flow. One thing pleases: the language speaks a lot of foolishness, makes a lot of finger clicks, but it will be Karasho for the site! Maladets author, he was right with a wall!
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 16 October 2020 16: 05 New
        +5
        Oi-wei, Slavochka, what are you talking about! Such handsome men gathered, such words say, well, what's wrong with you, why cry? Sasha Samsonov, ata hakham, how smart, probably, his dad is Jewish ...
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 16 October 2020 16: 22 New
          +7
          Sasha Samsonov, ata hakham, how smart, probably, his dad is Jewish ...

          Dear Moshe, well, you are from a decent family, and even with education! hi So I think our Israeli colleagues will say to this: "Oh wei, we don't need those like that, leave Samsonov and the superethnos to the real Tartar patriots!" laughing drinks
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 16 October 2020 16: 55 New
            +4
            I don’t know what our Israeli colleagues will say. But Samsonov is so smart precisely because he is a Jew, whether they like it or not. laughing
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 16 October 2020 16: 00 New
      +4
      And if someone will accept the stated at face value? Who's guilty? Parents, what have they not taught to think and read?

      And if you repeat it as a mantra?

      By the way, is the presence of the Tatar Strait used by the apologists of Great Tartary?
      1. Alexander Sosnitsky
        Alexander Sosnitsky 18 October 2020 13: 13 New
        -1
        Quote: Korsar4
        By the way, is the presence of the Tatar Strait used by the apologists of Great Tartary?

        So yes, we need to think about it. Where are the Tatars and where is the strait?
  • Andrey Krasnoyarsky
    Andrey Krasnoyarsky 16 October 2020 15: 19 New
    10
    Another set of pseudo-historical nonsense based on insane authors like science fiction writer Yuri Petukhov, writer of fables about Rus-Scythia and his accomplice Petukhova. For fun, I read one of their books - a set of dense demagoguery. The main "method" of Petukhov and others like him is selective citation and arbitrary interpretation of sources, distortion of facts and arguments according to the principle "if there is no evidence, you have to invent it." To expose all the nonsense of Petukhov - you need to download a separate book, this resource is not intended for that. But not a single argument of Petukhov and Samsonov, obedient to him, stands up to criticism. Advice to comrade Samsonov is not to read insane pseudo-historians at night.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 16 October 2020 16: 28 New
    +6
    Soon the author will write about the protorussians, the diggers of the White Sea.
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 16 October 2020 16: 54 New
    +7
    I did not expect such a degradation of articles on VO ...
  • Sun say
    Sun say 16 October 2020 17: 04 New
    -1
    More recently, Sergei Brilev himself, the head and host of the "Vesti on Saturday" program, candidate of historical sciences, spoke about the existence of Tartaria. This issue of "news" can be found on YouTube, and this is tantamount to official recognition.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 16 October 2020 18: 12 New
      +6
      Quote: Sun Say
      Sergey Brilev himself

      They talk about a lot of things "themselves", and then they forget about it or say something else ... and here he is a candidate, and I am a candidate, so what? Just because he is on Russian TV and interviewed Putin, he needs to be trusted as a specialist, right? Don't tell my slippers ... I also worked on TV for 10 years and I know what is there and how it happens ...
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 18 October 2020 23: 39 New
      +4
      Sergey Brilev himself
      "Himself" - in the sense of one, without anyone?
  • BAI
    BAI 16 October 2020 19: 00 New
    +8
    And the author can cite at least one official document of Russia, Tsarist Russia, the USSR, the Russian Federation, where the word "Tartaria" would appear? Such a state supposedly "existed" (in someone's fevered imagination), and on its territory there is not a single official mention of it.
    "Reklius" is most likely the hero of the Rus mythology, who became a god for the Tavro-Scythians - Hercules.

    I will reveal to the author a terrible secret - Reklius, this is not Hercules, but Rectalius. Who he is - I do not know, but why he is - the similarities in sound are much greater, the most iron proof according to the "logic" of the au