Khrushchev dumped all the blame for the Kharkov catastrophe on Stalin

61
The offensive of the Red Army

The first morning of May 12, 1942 after an hour of artillery and aviation preparation for the offensive went Soviet troops. In the northern sector, 11 rifle divisions were thrown into battle in the first echelon with the support of 7 tank brigades and 20 artillery regiments of the RGK. Literally immediately it became clear that a significant number of enemy firing points could not be suppressed, in addition, there were much more of them than expected. The German defenses were stronger than they thought. This was the first surprise for our troops. The Soviet troops were met with dense enemy fire, and they literally had to gnaw through the German defenses, suffering heavy losses.



However, by the end of the day, the flank 21 and 38 armies broke through the main lane and advanced 6 – 10 km. The 28-I Ryabyshev army, which was the main striking force on this sector, was less successful; it managed to penetrate the enemy defense only 2 km, although the army had 59,5 guns and mortars and 12 tanks on 1 km. The commander of the 38 Army, K. S. Moskalenko, inspired by the success of his troops, proposed to transfer the mobile group to his army. The front headquarters decided that everything was already going well: the flanks of Ryabyshev’s army were reliably secured and now it can safely step on Kharkov.

The southern shock group of the South-Western Front was also successfully advancing. Six Soviet divisions, with the support of 200 tanks and 14 regiments of the GDK, broke the resistance of two German infantry divisions and a brigade of Hungarians by noon. In the second half of the day, on the Krasnograd direction, the 6 th cavalcourse with a tank brigade attached to it was introduced into the breakthrough. By evening, the troops of the 6 Army of Gorodnyansky and the Bobkin Army Group on the 40-kilometer stretch penetrated deep into the German defense on 12 – 15 km, reaching the second defensive line created on the elevated western bank of the Orel River. The Germans threw here everything that was at hand, including trophy teams and construction units, and General Gorodnyansky began the nomination of two second-tier divisions. The tank corps, which were to enter the breakthrough, remained in place, although they were already in 35 km from the front line.

It is worth noting that the offensive of the Soviet troops was favored by the almost complete absence of aviation from the enemy. The main forces of the German 4th Air fleet were involved at that time much further south, helping Manstein’s 11th Army to smash the Crimean Front. Therefore, Soviet aviation worked in an almost clear sky, providing cover and support for both strike groups of the Southwestern Front. German aircraft began to arrive at the battlefield only on May 14 and, despite the quantitative superiority of the Soviet Air Force, quickly seized air supremacy.

Khrushchev dumped all the blame for the Kharkov catastrophe on Stalin

Soviet T-34-76 tanks of the South-Western Front are attacking. Photo source: http://waralbum.ru/

13 on the southern section of the breakthrough front was extended to 55 km, and the depth reached 25 – 30 km. Enemy resistance weakened. May 14 Soviet divisions created the conditions for the introduction of mobile units into the breakthrough in order to develop the success and environment of the German group in the Kharkov region. The swift and powerful strike of two tank corps (around 300 machines) could prove to be quite effective at that time. However, the command of the South-Western Front, mistakenly believing that the enemy was concentrating a large mechanized grouping in the Zmiev region, delayed the introduction of tank corps into the battle, in order to enter them into a breakthrough with the exit of rifle divisions to the Berestovaya line, which was to be fought with 15 km, which was a serious mistake. The rifle divisions had already exhausted their forces, and further progress was given to them with great effort. And the Germans used this time to stabilize their defenses and regroup their forces.

May 13 in the north The 28 Army overcame the main German defense zone and reached the approaches to Kharkov, to the line of heights surrounding the city from the east. The troops of the 38 Army Moskalenko in the first half of the day advanced another 6 km. However, problems started. The commander of the German 6 Army, General Paulus, made a regrouping of his forces: from Kharkov against the 38 Army, the 3-I and 23-I tank divisions were launched. In addition, the transfer of the 4 air fleet from the Crimea to Kharkov began. At 13 hours, the Germans, concentrating two mobile groups during the night and the first half of the day, struck from two sides at the junction of the 38 army with the 28 army. One group included the 3-I tank division and two infantry regiments, the second was the 23-I tank division and one infantry regiment. The troops of the 38 Army did not stand up and were thrown back to their original positions. Tymoshenko ordered the 28 Army to transfer the 162 Infantry Division and the 6 Guards Tank Brigade to Moskalenko.

14 May Army Moskalenko still fought with two German tank divisions, trying to keep in touch with a neighbor. Troops of the 21 Army of V.N. Gordov trampled on the spot, laying soldiers in frontal attacks on fortified points and skyscrapers. It came to the point that the commander-in-chief had to explain to General Gordov that the enemy’s resistance points should not be taken in the forehead, they must be blocked and bypassed, forcing the offensive in every way. The divisions of the 28 Army Ryabyshev advanced another 6 – 8 km and reached the rear line of the German defense, passing along the rivers Kharkov and Moore. According to the plan of operation at this time, the mobile group (3 th cavalcourse and 38 th rifle division) were to enter the breakthrough. But due to poor management organization, these compounds did not have time to focus on the starting line. The headquarters of the formations and Tymoshenko’s headquarters were at a great distance from the front line (sometimes they were separated by 20 – 30 km and more), the radio communication did not work well, and the call signs of the units were mixed up. In the south, 6-I Soviet army reached the line, no more than 35 – 40 km from the southern suburbs of Kharkov.

On May 15-16, the forces of the northern Soviet grouping mostly defended themselves. The Germans fiercely counterattacked. On May 17, General Ryabyshev, in order to restrain the onslaught of the enemy, was forced to enter into battle the main forces of the 3 Guards Cavalry Corps. As a result, the northern grouping of the Southwestern Front spent all its reserves. In the south on the evening of May 16, our troops crossed the Berestovaya and captured the bridgehead, creating the conditions for the introduction of tanks into battle. However, due to the late flood, the river has greatly spread, and the wide marshy floodplain, the viscous banks have become a serious obstacle for tanks. It was necessary to restore the bridges destroyed by the enemy, and General Gorodnyansky postponed the commissioning of tank corps until the morning of May 17. At the same time, the Bobkin group crossed the river and embraced Krasnograd from three sides.

The troops of the 6 Army recaptured the destroyed bridges on Berestovaya at night, and in the morning the commander began to bring the 21 and 23 tank corps into battle. The tanks penetrated into the German defense on 12-15 km and in the vicinity of the Vlasovka station, cut the Kharkov-Krasnodar railway. The Bobkin group continued to fight for Krasnograd, it broke away from the rear bases and began to feel a shortage of ammunition. No one else knew that the battle was already lost. Soviet troops continued to rush to Kharkov.

Thus, the shock groups of the South-Western Front during the three-day stubborn battles, not without difficulties, but broke through the defenses of the 6 of the German army north and south of Kharkov. The offensive of the left wing of the South-Western Front really put Paulus's troops in a difficult position. 14 in May, the southern shock group created the conditions for introducing mobile units into the breakthrough with the aim of developing success and surrounding the German group in the Kharkov region. The swift and powerful strike of two tank corps could prove to be quite effective at that time. However, the command of the South-Western Front, mistakenly believing that the enemy was concentrating a large mechanized grouping in the Zmiev region, delayed the introduction of tank units into the battle. The refusal to use mobile connections on the most critical days for the development of the offensive - 14-15 in May, had the most negative impact on the development of the operation. The advancing rifle divisions have exhausted their forces, the pace of the attack has declined sharply. May 17 tank corps entered into a breakthrough, but the good moment was already missed. The Germans at this time pulled reserves and entrenched on the rear lines of defense, and in the north launched a counterattack. The forces of DI Ryabyshev’s 28 Army and KS Moskalenko’s right flank of the 38 Army had to repel a counterattack by German troops on the outskirts of the railway and the Belgorod-Kharkov highway. Our troops lost the initiative.



German counteroffensive

In the meantime, the German command was able to restore defensive orders and complete the regrouping of troops. The lack of active operations by Soviet troops in other sectors of the front and the return of the main forces of the 4 air fleet allowed the German command to freely transfer its reserves to the dangerous area. The German command, which was preparing a strategic offensive in this direction, quickly assessed the favorable aspects of the current situation. Halder convinced Hitler that the Kleist army group could launch a counter-strike to the Russians and thus turn a difficult defensive battle into a successful offensive operation. The Führer ordered Kleist to push his tank army to shock positions against the southern front of the Barvenkovsky ledge.

From 13 to 16 in May, large forces were deployed in the 57 th and 9 th actions of the Soviet armies, combined in this area into two army and one motorized corps. The 3 th motorized corps had 5 divisions, including the 14 th tank and 60 th motorized divisions. The main forces of this compound focused on the 20-kilometer stretch of Petrovka, Chrome Beam. The 44 Army Corps, consisting of four infantry and 16 Panzer Divisions, took up positions in the area of ​​Bylbasovka, Sobolevka. To the west is the 52 Corps, from two infantry divisions and a penal battalion.

At the same time, Soviet intelligence missed the preparation of an enemy counter-offensive. They knew about the existence of the enemy group, but they underestimated the threat from its side. As Moskalenko noted, when planning the Kharkov operation, the Kleist army group was essentially not taken into account: “on her part, according to the command of the 57 and 9 armies, shared by front and direction headquarters, it was impossible to expect active actions in the near future, especially in the direction to the north "(KS Moskalenko. In the South-West direction). Thus, the strike of the Kleist group turned out to be completely unexpected for the 9 and 57 armies and the command of the Southern Front, although it was precisely the reflection of this strike that was the only task of the front of R. Ya. Malinovsky. The payback for this mistake was severe.


A padded and burning Soviet tank KV-1 and a Hungarian soldier sitting in a trench

On the morning of May 17, after an hour and a half of artillery preparation, the strike force of the Kleist army group (9 infantry, 2 tank and 1 motorized divisions) launched an offensive from the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk area. The Germans attacked the 9 Army of the Southern Front. At the same time, the Germans forged the troops of the Soviet 57 Army. The troops of the 9 and 57 armies could not repel the enemy attack. Already by 8 hours of the morning, the Soviet defense was broken through to the depth of 6-8 km. German ground forces supported the large forces of the 4 air fleet. German aviation struck the headquarters of the 9 Army, and the command and control was disrupted. The communication of the front headquarters with the 57 army was broken. The troops were forced to fight independently, without interaction between themselves and with the reserves of the army and the front.

It is worth noting that the Soviet defense was shallow, was built on the system of strong points and resistance nodes. In spite of the one-and-a-half-month tenure in the defense, work on the creation of defensive structures and engineering barriers was not satisfactory (another shortcoming of the Soviet command). On the entire 170-kilometer front of the defense of the 9 and 57 armies, the entire 11 km of wire barriers were installed, anti-tank barriers were not created at all. The total depth of the defensive line did not exceed 3 – 4 km. No intermediate and rear lines existed. The possibility of an enemy offensive against the Barvenkovsky bridgehead was not considered in the near future, which most negatively affected the defense of the 9 and 57 armies. Four divisions of the first echelon of the 9 Army defended on a plot of 105 km, with an average of 4-9 guns and mortars and 3 bunker for one kilometer of the front. There was no second echelon in the 9 army, as well as the 57 army. Air defense systems were small.

In addition, the troops of the 9 Army F. F. Kharitonov were greatly weakened by the previous private offensive operation. On the initiative of General Kharitonov, approved by the front commander, his troops 7-15 attacked the enemy in May to seize a strong fortified resistance center in the Mayakov area. At the same time, significant forces were gradually involved in the operation, including almost all the army reserves and the 5 th cavalcourse (front reserve), that is, the very reserves that the plan was intended to eliminate a possible breakthrough of the German troops in the Barvenkovo ​​direction. Tymoshenko and Khrushchev knew about this operation, but did not consider it necessary to limit the initiative of Malinovsky and Kharitonov. As a result, the operation in the area of ​​Mayakov failed, the Soviet troops suffered heavy losses. The strength of the divisions was reduced to 5 – 7 thousand people, and by the time they went on the offensive of the Kleist group they did not have time to recover.

As a result, on the very first day, German troops broke the defensive orders of the 9 Army. By the 17 clock, the Germans took Barvenkovo, in the evening - advanced on 20-25 km. By the end of May 18, the Germans, having advanced to the north by 40-50 km, reached Seversky Donets in the Petrovskoye area (30 km south-west of Izyum). German troops broke through to the rear of the 57 and 6 armies. An attempt by the Southwestern command to rectify the situation with the counter-attack of the 5 th corps and other parts of the reserve was not successful. The defeated troops of the 9 Army retreated to the north, north-west and beyond the Seversky Donets. The advancement of the German strike group created a threat to the encirclement of the entire Barvenkovo ​​grouping of Soviet troops. In addition, the command of the South-Western direction and the front (Tymoshenko, Khrushchev and Baghramyan) underestimated the enemy and did not take the necessary measures in time to prevent the impending catastrophe. A number of mistakes were made in the leadership of the troops. The measures to eliminate the breakthrough of the enemy troops were insufficient, and then the withdrawal of armies that were under the threat of encirclement was unreasonably delayed.


German soldiers inspect the Soviet T-34 tank with its own name "Chapaev"

In this case, the command of the South-Western direction misled and the Headquarters. Later Khrushchev tried to blame all the blame for the catastrophe on the Supreme Commander I. Stalin. They say that the Military Council of the South-Western direction proposed stopping the further attack on Kharkov, regrouping the troops and creating a strong group to repel the enemy’s counterattack. But the Stavka did not approve this decision and demanded to continue the attack on Kharkov, and the 9 and 57 armies and reserves of the Southern Front repelled the enemy strike. Khrushchev allegedly appealed directly to the Supreme with a proposal to immediately stop the attack on Kharkov and concentrate all the forces of the South-Western Front to repel the blow of the Kleist group. However, Stavka insisted on continuing the offensive.

In reality, everything was different. Tymoshenko, according to Marshal G. K. Zhukov, did not report that a real threat was created surrounding his armies. And in general, “The Military Council of the South-West direction did not show much concern ...”. A. M. Vasilevsky, who at that time served as Chief of the General Staff (due to B. Shaposhnikov's illness), in the evening on May 17 reported to Stalin about the current critical situation on the Southern Front and proposed to stop the offensive of the South-Western Front. his strike force to throw at the interception of the German threat from Kramatorsk. “The Supreme Commander,” writes Marshal A. M. Vasilevsky, “decided to speak with the commander-in-chief of the South-Western direction, Marshal Tymoshenko. The exact content of I. I. Stalin’s telephone conversations with S. K. Timoshenko is unknown to me. Only some time later they called me to the Headquarters, where I again stated my fears for the Southern Front and repeated the proposal to stop the offensive. In response, it was stated to me that the measures taken by the command of direction were quite enough to repel the blow of the enemy against the Southern Front, and therefore the South-Western Front would continue the offensive ... "(A.M. Vasilevsky. The Matter of Life). Thus, the command of the South-Western direction convinced the Supreme that the situation was under control and the attack on Kharkov was continued.

The stake allocated several divisions and tank brigades to help Tymoshenko, but they could arrive in the combat area no earlier than May 20-21. Tymoshenko subordinated the 2 Cavalry Corps of Colonel G. A. Kovalev to the Southern Front and ordered General Malinovsky with two cavalry corps, two rifle divisions and three tank brigades of the 57 and 9 armies to counter attack the broken enemy and restore the situation. At the same time, the 343-Infantry Division and the 92 heavy tank battalion were assigned from the reserve of the Commander-in-Chief to take up defensive positions on the southern approaches to Izyum. The remaining troops of the South-Western Front were ordered to continue the attack on Kharkov.

However, the situation continued to deteriorate. Tymoshenko’s order to deliver a counterblow was impossible for the troops of the Southern Front. General Pliev's 5 Cavalry Corps was already fully involved in defensive battles and was unable to concentrate forces in one direction. The Kovalev Kavkorpus was rejected by the 60 Motorized Division, General Kharitonov’s headquarters completely lost control of its troops, and the headquarters of the Southern Front did not have contact with Kharitonov or the cavalry corps. The Germans stepped up their attack on the Barvenkovo ​​direction and, breaking the resistance of the 5 th corps, captured the southern part of Izyum. Kleist's troops began to move west along the right bank of the Seversky Donets.

In Moscow, Vasilevsky again proposed stopping the Kharkov operation and turning the strike force of the Southwestern Front south to repel the enemy. Again, this proposal was rejected after Stalin spoke with Tymoshenko. Khrushchev and Tymoshenko believed that there was no need to distract the main forces of the Bth Army and the Bobkin group to repel the attack of Kleist.


Soviet rocket launcher BM-8-36 on the truck chassis ZiS-6, destroyed at Kharkov

Barvenkovsky boiler

On May 19, the German grouping, defeating the 9 Army, created a wide 80-kilometer-long gap in the defense line of the Soviet forces and entered the main communications of the Red Army’s Barvenkovo ​​group. Marshal Tymoshenko finally gave the order to stop the attack on Kharkov and throw the main forces of the 6 and 57 armies, the 21 and 23 tank corps to eliminate the resulting breakthrough and restore the situation on the Barvenkovsky ledge. Their offensive was to be supported by the troops of the 9 and 38 armies. But it was too late. The rapid advance of the Wehrmacht mobile units along the right bank of the Northern Donets disrupted the systematic concentration of forces of the 6 Army, the Soviet units engaged in battle separately, without the necessary artillery and aviation support. The Germans relatively easily fought off such scattered and poorly prepared attacks of the Soviet troops. The 9 Army was defeated, and the 38 Army was bound by the enemy. In addition, the Germans had superiority in the air. Therefore, it was not possible to stop the advancement of the enemy.

On May 21, exhausted and bloody the northern Soviet grouping, General Paulus redeployed the 3 and 23 tank divisions to the north front of the Barvenkov salient. The next day they forced the Seversky Donets and began to move south. On May 23, the forces of the Kleist army group were united in 10 kilometers south of Balakliya with units of the German 6, advancing from the north. 6-I and 57-I Soviet armies and army task force were in the ring environment. The leadership of the troops of the 6 and 57 armies was entrusted to the deputy commander of the Southwestern Front F. Ya. Kostenko. The surrounded troops received the task with a blow to Savintsy to break through the encirclement and reach the left bank of the Seversky Donets. Their attack had to be supported by the troops of the 38 Army, reinforced by the consolidated tank corps - fresh brigades from the Reserve Headquarters arrived.

On the night of May 24, a regrouping and concentration of troops was carried out in a hurry. But in the morning the Germans again outstripped our troops. German troops launched an offensive on a broad front, seeking to widen the punched corridor and dismember the encircled grouping into separate, isolated parts from each other. To break through the corridor to the surrounded troops failed. Simultaneously with the destruction of the encircled Soviet troops, the Germans struck northeast of Kharkov in the wolf direction in parts of the 28 army and the right wing of the 38 army. The troops of the 28 and right flank of the 38 armies returned to their original positions.

Our troops continued to fight in conditions of encirclement, with a shortage of ammunition, fuel and food, with the domination of German aircraft in the air. By May 26, the surrounded Red Army units were locked up in a small space of approximately 15 square. km in the area Barvenkovo. Only a smaller part of the surrounded troops headed by a member of the Military Council of the Front divisional commissar K. A. Gurov made its way out of the encirclement. Until the end of the month, the remnants of the Soviet troops tried to break through to their own.

Thus, the successfully started Kharkov operation ended in a catastrophe for almost three Soviet armies. Soviet losses amounted to 270 thousand people, of which 171 thousand - irrevocably, 652 tank, 1646 guns, 3278 mortars. Almost all of the command of the advancing Soviet forces died or went missing in the entourage: Lieutenant-General F. Ya. Kostenko, Deputy Commander of the South-Western Front, Lieutenant-General A. M. Gorodnyansky, Commander of the 6 Army, Commander of the 57 Army Lieutenant K.P. Podlas, Army Group Commander, Major General L.V. Bobkin, and a number of generals who commanded divisions that were surrounded.


German soldiers in the Kharkov region

Results

The Kharkov offensive operation ended in a massive tragedy for the Soviet troops. Its outcome drastically changed the situation on the southern wing of the Soviet-German front in favor of the German army. The defense of the Soviet troops in the southern and southwestern fronts proved to be radically weakened. The German command is beginning to successfully develop a prearranged strategic offensive in two directions — the Caucasus and the Volga, which led to the beginning of two magnificent battles — for Stalingrad and the North Caucasus.

It should be noted that the success of the German troops in the south-western direction was due to two main prerequisites. Firstly, the German command solved the main strategic task in this direction during the 1942 campaign of the year and prepared large forces and means in this direction. The advancing Soviet army actually fell into the "trap", ran into a counter blow prepared by the German troops prepared for the offensive.

Secondly, these are the mistakes of the Southwestern command. The Soviet command poorly prepared an offensive, the Germans knew about the preparation of the Soviet troops. The intelligence, which underestimated enemy forces in the area of ​​the offensive, did not work out clearly enough, and during the offensive itself, it was not able to promptly uncover powerful groups created by the enemy for the counterattack. As a result, the enemy’s counter-strike became unexpected. At the same time, Tymoshenko, Khrushchev and Baghramyan underestimated the enemy, believed that the Germans suffered heavy losses in this direction and were not ready for a serious offensive operation in the Barvenkovo ​​area. Therefore, the Soviet command was preparing to attack, and the defense in the area of ​​operation was unsatisfactory. The commander of the South-West direction did not pay the necessary attention to operational support of the offensive, especially the flanks of the attack force. The command of the Southern Front did not take measures to reliably ensure the flank and rear of the main strike force of the South-Western Front from the strike from the Slavyansk-Kramatorsk area. And when it became clear that it was necessary to withdraw the troops, Tymoshenko’s headquarters slowed down, misled the Stavka, hoped that the situation could be rectified, that victory should not be left out. In the end, it ended in disaster, the death and captivity of tens of thousands of Soviet soldiers.

Interestingly, reporting to the Supreme Commander on the results of the operation, the command of the South-West direction all the blame for the failure of the operation fell on his subordinates: “The defeat of the 9 Army largely resulted from the failure of the command of this army to control the troops in difficult conditions. Intelligence of all types of the 9 Army and the Southern Front did not timely disclose the impending strike, and thus deprived the command of the ability to take additional measures to repel the enemy's strike on the 9 Army. ... The command of the armies and part of the commanders of the corps and divisions with their headquarters turned out to be untenable to lead the troops in difficult combat conditions. As a rule, the commanding officers of armies, corps, and divisions did not lead the formations at important moments of operations and combat, but traveled around the subunits. This was the case in the group of General Kostenko and the 6 Army during the period of the semi-circle and the environment, when the army commander left for one division, a member of the Military Council to another, and the chief of staff to the third. Approximately the same order followed the command of the corps and divisions ... ".

It turned out that the command of the South-Western direction got useless commanders of armies, corps and divisions. Indeed, the commanders of the army-corps-division level made mistakes, but the main fault lies with the high command, which so conceived and organized the operation that everything ended in disaster.

And when Stalin died, and Khrushchev seized upon the leadership of the party and the USSR, he placed all the blame on the Supreme. In a famous report at the XX Party Congress, Khrushchev argued that it was Stalin who stubbornly refused to give permission to the troops of the South-Western Front to get out of attack and go on the defensive. In the 6-languidStories The Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union ”, which was edited accordingly, also included a version of Stalin’s guilt and Khrushchev’s“ wisdom ”, who allegedly warned Bid about the threat of a German strike.

Already being retired, Khrushchev, in his Memoirs, was offended by Marshal Vasilevsky - he, it turns out, had incorrectly informed Stalin: “... certainly, I cannot bypass my conversation with Vasilevsky. He made a heavy impression on me then. I believed that the catastrophe that broke out under Barvenkovo ​​could have been avoided if Vasilevsky had taken the position he was supposed to take. He could take a different position, but did not take it, and thus, I think, had a hand in the deaths of thousands of Red Army soldiers in the Kharkov operation ... Vasilevsky, having done wrong, did not fulfill his duty as a soldier and did not report to Stalin during Kharkov operations. "


Prisoners of the Red Army at the assembly point near Kharkov
61 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +11
    22 May 2017 15: 22
    Khrushchev dumped all the blame for the Kharkov catastrophe on Stalin
    The fact that Stalin, as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief is responsible for this rout - is not even discussed, such is the fate of all commanders. But Nikita Sergeyevich is far from “not white and fluffy" in this rout ...
    1. +6
      22 May 2017 15: 58
      Quote: svp67
      But Nikita Sergeyevich is far from “not white and fluffy" in this rout ...

      hi
      That's right!
      But if you "look at things broader", then, obviously, in the spring and summer of 1942, our army, as command and the troops themselves still not able to withstand the troops and command of the Germans.
      Crimea, Kharkov, the defeat of the army gene. Lizyukova near Voronezh.
      After all, there wasn’t Tymoshenko and Khrushchev everywhere, but there were others like them, not bad and bad, and those who were ...
      In the end, the best German troops "faded" in the steppes near Stalingrad and we "learned and started to beat the Germans. But it was a long process," as G.K. Zhukov said.
      And also exceptionally bloody ...
      It seems to me that Stalin did not take repressive measures to command our troops in the summer of 1942 because he understood that the generals (like the troops) did everything they could, often they themselves died in battles, but they just couldn’t fight at that level yet, to smash the armies of Manstein and Paulus.
    2. +4
      22 May 2017 16: 00
      It is unlikely that Khrushchov is so guilty, he probably drove through Tymoshenko’s brains, then Tymoshenko made decisions, by the way Malinovsky looks very bad.
      1. +12
        22 May 2017 16: 05
        Quote: Cartalon
        It is unlikely that Khrushchov is so guilty, he probably drove through Tymoshenko’s brains, then Tymoshenko made decisions, by the way Malinovsky looks very bad.

        Yeah, FWM of the front - Well, Nothing is to blame for anything. But without his signature, not one plan was not approved.
        1. +4
          22 May 2017 16: 19
          Yes, even the pope, Khrushchov could not have a competent opinion, then the question arises of how Khrushchov ended up in such a position.
          1. +6
            22 May 2017 16: 22
            Quote: Cartalon
            then the question arises of how Khrushchov ended up in such a position.

            As having rich experience in the PARTY leadership and as Secretary of the CC CP (b) of Ukraine ...
            Quote: Cartalon
            Khrushchov could not have a competent opinion

            This we now understand, then there was a slightly different point of view, the commanders were NOT TRUSTED.
            1. +1
              22 May 2017 16: 33
              Well, if the Supreme trusts an experienced party worker who has no military experience more than his General Staff, then who is to blame?
              1. +6
                22 May 2017 16: 49
                Quote: Cartalon
                Well, if the Supreme trusts an experienced party worker who has no military experience more than his General Staff, then who is to blame?
                I have already expressed the guilt of the Supreme, but at the expense of trust, it is difficult here. The trouble is that Khrushchev reassured too long - sending out peppy reports about the state of affairs on the entrusted front.
                1. +3
                  22 May 2017 17: 06
                  Khrushchov could not evaluate the operational situation, and Stalin was unlikely to be interested in his personal opinion on this matter, but Marshal Tymoshenko was the most authoritative military commander at that time, and there was demand from him.
      2. +6
        22 May 2017 17: 55
        There is one to one. And gouging - for a month they could not build a worthy defense (for example, the Germans were on the defensive near Prokhorovka for a couple of days, and after their retreat the impression was that they were equipping positions for a month) and the obvious stupidity of commanders of all levels (head-on attacks of fortified areas instead of looking for weak places and workarounds) and lack of understanding of the situation and selfish interests (looking white and fluffy when already crap from head to toe), hence the delay in making decisions.
        Well and most importantly, in 1942 the German generals excelled the bulk of ours by their skill level. Our generals trained to their level for another two years, and the soldiers paid for their studies with their lives.
        Speaking of Vasilevsky. He also near Kursk at Prokhorovka tightly managed as a representative of the Headquarters, for which he was removed and replaced, if I am not mistaken, by Zhukov.
        It’s a mystery for me, why did Stalin value Vasilevsky so much?
        1. +2
          22 May 2017 20: 21
          you are mistaken that no one took Vasilevsky, probably appreciated that he was smart
    3. +7
      22 May 2017 16: 09
      Quote: svp67
      Stalin, as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, is responsible for this rout - not even discussed, such is the fate of all commanders

      But: - "Everything is from God." Maybe then the Lord God himself will blame everything? The issue with Khrushchev is more complicated, because he was then the first secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks of the Ukrainian SSR - this is where the clue is possible. He (Khrushchev) to fully rule (rule) needed the capital of the Ukrainian SSR, which once was the city of Kharkov itself. It is entirely possible that this is precisely the solution to the “amazing” reports upstairs personally from him and his associates. Let me remind you: after the failure of this Kharkov operation, Stalin actually drove Khrushchev away from the fronts (but in general he could have shot him with his mind). It would be good to consider this issue less biased and from all sides, there will be more sense and benefit.
      1. +3
        22 May 2017 16: 18
        Quote: venaya
        The question with Khrushchev is more complicated, because he was then the first secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks of the Ukrainian SSR - this is where the clue is possible

        There is no clue that he was a PMA on this Front ....
      2. 0
        22 May 2017 16: 25
        Far from Khrushchov’s fronts were removed; furthermore, there was a FAC of different fronts.
        1. +6
          22 May 2017 16: 50
          Quote: Cartalon
          Far from Khrushchov’s fronts were removed; furthermore, there was a FAC of different fronts.

          Yes, it was, only the role of the PMC has changed dramatically since 1943, the commander has become the ONE-CHIEF.
      3. +2
        22 May 2017 18: 02
        Yes, after the Kharkov catastrophe, Khrushchev was recalled to Moscow, but he was immediately appointed a member of the military council of the Stalingrad Front, and then in the Battle of Kursk he was on the Voronezh Front in the same position.
        Only after that he was sent to rebuild Ukraine.
    4. -1
      22 May 2017 20: 18
      Write nonsense.
  2. +7
    22 May 2017 16: 12
    There is no concrete culprit in the failure of the Kharkov operation .. Here is the general fault .. someone to a greater extent, someone to a lesser extent ...
  3. +3
    22 May 2017 16: 43
    A stable understanding was almost completely formed that the 1941 disaster was a result of the betrayal of part of the high command of the Red Army. The same can be attributed to a number of operations in 1942. And even when it was not possible to “lose” the Battle of Kursk, these not comrades at all realized at last that there would be no one to come to an agreement with ...
    1. 0
      22 May 2017 16: 52
      Quote: DimanC
      a firm understanding was formed that the disaster of the 1941 of the year was the result of the betrayal of part of the high command of the Red Army

      1. +1
        26 May 2017 16: 56
        Yes, I know this series of questions and answers. Only for me, these military leaders remain traitors anyway, precisely because: 1) they secretly replaced management documents (replacing active defense with a counter offensive), 2) they perverted somewhere and directly sabotaged the execution of orders issued from above immediately before the start of the war , 3) where it was possible to conduct operations in such a way as to lose the battle or get the maximum damage for us ... Well, no one will know now, but if all these bugs would have won the war, had they removed Stalin. And Hitler would agree with them on the future of the remnants of the USSR (if there were any at all).
        1. 0
          26 May 2017 17: 07
          Quote: DimanC
          Well, now no one will know

          Beria had all the documents for the trial for the failure at the beginning of the war. The Trotskyists knew about it and for the sake of saving their skins Stalin and Beria were killed. No documents found yet. There are suggestions that they are in China.
    2. +2
      22 May 2017 16: 59
      But in general, were not traitors in the Red Army in the second half of thirty years?
    3. +6
      22 May 2017 17: 36
      I believe that the version of "betrayal" is fundamentally wrong. Firstly, it is not supported by any direct evidence, only indirect. Secondly, there was simply no one to command the troops: against the German generals who remembered the First World War, there were Soviet generals - party leaders - feel the difference. The main blow to the leadership of the Red Army was not even dealt 1937-38, but earlier - the expulsion of "military specialists" from the army with their subsequent repression. And so it turned out that our illiterate party-corporal general, as an adult, managed to manage in 1941 and ran into a new rake in 1942. And what is the defense of the Crimea, the defeat of the Kerch-Theodosia landing and the surrender of Sevastopol - vivid examples of the stupid leadership of the troops. Therefore, in 1942, Stalin did not shoot generals - the others were even worse. And then, yes, they learned to fight, and it began - Stalingrad, Kursk, the Caucasus, Crimea. And the top of the accumulated skill was 10 Stalin's strikes in the 44th. But they could have fought like this since 1941 if they had saved the former tsarist officer corps, who had served in the Red Army. But as they say, if my grandmother ...
      1. +9
        22 May 2017 19: 26
        Quote: ecologer
        and earlier - the expulsion of "military specialists" from the army, followed by their repression.

        Tell you Karbyshev, for political information - a nobleman. Or Shaposhnikov. You can continue to continue.
        The most frequently cited figure in 40 is thousands of people, DA Volkogonov launched it, and Volkogonov clarified that the number of the repressed included not only those who were shot and imprisoned, but also simply dismissed without consequences.
        After him, the “flight of fancy” had already begun - the number of people repressed by L. A. Kirchner is increasing to 44 thousands, and he says that it was half of the officer corps. The ideologist of the Central Committee of the CPSU, the “foreman of perestroika” A. N. Yakovlev, speaks of 70 thousands, moreover, he claims that they killed everyone. Rapoport and Geller increase the number to 100 thousand, V. Koval argues that Stalin destroyed almost the entire officer corps of the USSR.
        What was really? According to archival documents, from 1934 to 1939 year 56785 people were fired from the ranks of the Red Army. 1937-1938 dismissed 35020 people, of which 19,1% (6692 people) - natural decline (deceased, dismissed due to illness, disability, drunkenness, etc.), 27,2% (9506) arrested, 41,9% (14684) dismissed for political reasons, 11,8% (4138) - foreigners (Germans, Finns, Estonians, Poles, Lithuanians, etc.) who were dismissed according to the 1938 directive of the year. Were later restored, they were able to prove that they were fired unreasonably, 6650 people.
        Quite a lot was fired for drunkenness, such that on the orders of December 28’s Defense Commissioner, 1938 was demanded to be exiled mercilessly. As a result, the figure of about 40 thousand turns out to be true, but not everyone can be considered "victims." If we exclude from the lists of repressed drunkards, deceased, dismissed due to illness, foreigners, the scale of repression becomes much smaller. In 1937-1938 9579 people of commanders were arrested, of which in 1938-1939 years were restored to the rank of 1457 people; Fired for political reasons 19106 people, restored 9247 people.
        The exact number of the repressed (and not all were shot) in 1937-1939 years - 8122 man and 9859 man dismissed from the army.

        https://topwar.ru/4026-mif-o-obezglavlivanii-armi
        i-stalinym.html
        1. +5
          22 May 2017 20: 10
          After the revolution, the Red Army passed under 400 only GENERALS! But the most famous warlords of the Second World War from those who remained after the purges of the military specialists (not the reprisals of 37-38, but the purges of the military specialists): Bagramyan (1MV lieutenant colonel), Karbyshev (1MV lieutenant colonel), Lukin (1MV lieutenant), Ponedelin (1MV lieutenant) ), Tolbukhin (1MV staff captain), Tyulenev (1MV ensign), Shaposhnikov (1MV colonel). There were many others, but there were no longer hundreds of generals and senior officers. And the Germans fought the old cadres, thanks to them the Wehrmacht and proper to Stalingrad. But it was not necessary for Karbyshev and Shaposhnikov to tell this - they knew all this, and they, like old cadres, fought honestly and well, but there were only a few! And the purges of the Red Army of 37-38 are a completely different issue, this action did not cause such massive damage.
          1. 0
            22 May 2017 20: 20
            And how many of the 400 generals were repressed? And most importantly, for what?
            And can there be a link to the literature, where can I read about 400's generals?
            1. +4
              22 May 2017 20: 41
              I don’t know how many were exactly repressed, but there were crumbs left. For what - I would like to ask the new red commanders, especially Tukhachevsky, he was most distinguished here. He cleaned out a classly hostile element, and he was not alone, such was the installation at that time. And the link - here, in the public domain - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/List of_General_Ru
              Russian Imperial Army on Service in the Red Army
              1. +1
                23 May 2017 06: 33
                I looked at the list of generals from infantry:
                Dmitry Vasilievich Balanin (November 26 1857 - 1928, Petrograd). Further fate is unclear. According to some information, he was arrested and died in prison until October 1928, and according to others, as of 1930, he lived in Leningrad.

                Pyotr Semyonovich Baluev (1857 - 1923, Moscow).
                1918 - Joined the Red Army.
                1919 - Inspector of Military Communications of the Supreme Military Inspectorate.
                1920 - He was a member of the Special Meeting at the Commander-in-Chief and the Commission for the Study and Use of the Experience of the 1 World War.
                At the teaching work.
                He died in Moscow in the 1923 year.

                Leonid Nikolaevich Belkovich (1859—?). After the October Revolution, in 1918, he voluntarily joined the Red Army. He participated in the work of the Military Historical Commission for the Study of World War II. He was included in the lists of the General Staff of the Red Army from 15.07.1919 and 07.08.1920.
                Further fate is unknown.
                He was married and had four children.

                Fedor Nikolaevich Vasiliev (1858 — 1923). After the October Revolution, he collaborated with the Soviet government. From March 1 to 1920 of the year, he was an officer-compiler in the Historical Commission of the All-Russian Chief of Staff, from 18 of October 1920 of the year he was a full-time director of practical exercises at the Military Academy of the Red Army, and from 1 of January 1921 of the year he was senior leader of group lectures of the Military Academy of the Red Army.

                Ippolit Paulinovich Voyshin-Murdas-Zhilinsky (April 6 1856 - January 20 1926). 28.09-06.10.1919 - he and his brother were arrested by the Nizhny Novgorod Cheka, after a series of interrogations and partial confiscation of property [1], both were released. [6]
                20.01.1926 - died in Nizhny Novgorod. He was buried at the local Lutheran cemetery.

                Voronov, Nikolai Mikhailovich (5 [17] July 1859 -?). From July 7 to 1921, the general for assignments under the commander of the troops of the Provisional Amur Government, the chairman of the commission for the audit of the engineering department. 6 July 1922 year was at the disposal of the commander of the Provisional Amur Government.

                Nikolai Aleksandrovich Danilov (April 13 (April 25) 1867, Moscow - May 1934, Leningrad). In 1931 — 1933 - inspector of the headquarters of the Red Army. With 1933 - retired. He died in Leningrad.

                Dmitry Alexandrovich Dolgov (1860 — 1939). After the 1920 year, he was given permission to leave the country [1] and he emigrated to Belgium. Died 23 September 1939 year in Brussels.

                Andrei Medardovich Zayonchkovsky (8 (20) December 1862 - 22 March 1926, Moscow). In 1922 — 1926 years professor of the Military Academy. M.V. Frunze. Participated in the operation of the GPU "Trust".

                He died in Moscow. He was buried in the cemetery of the Novodevichy Convent. The grave is located next to the grave of A. A. Brusilov. The pedestal on the grave is made in the form of a “Broken Column” associated with Masonic symbolism [1].

                Polivanov, Aleksei Andreyevich (4 (March 16), 1855, the village of Krasnoye, Nerekht district, Kostroma province — 25 of September 1920, Riga). Since February 1920, he served in the Red Army (was a member of the military training editorial board, a member of the Military Legislative Meeting at the Revolutionary Military Council, a member of the Special Meeting at the Commander-in-Chief). He was a military expert during the Soviet-Polish peace negotiations in August-September of the 1920 in Riga, during which he contracted typhoid.
                25 September 1920 died and was buried in Petrograd [2] at the Nikolsky cemetery of the Alexander Nevsky Lavra.
                I didn’t find the repressed and executed. the rest did not wool.
                It is time.
                And the second one. They are all 1855-1860 gg. birth. At the time of the revolution he was for 40. To 1937 for 60 years.
                1. +2
                  23 May 2017 10: 01
                  Manstein was a captain in WW1, Paulus was also a captain, Manerheim was a cavalry general (by the way born in 1867), Kleist was the beginning. operas. the headquarters department of the 7th Army Corps (I did not find the rank), and also Rommel, Model - in which of the well-known German generals do not spit, almost all fought in 1MB in posts and ranks. We had such units in the Second World War - feel the difference: almost all or units. Were there few repressed generals? Only in the case of Vesna, Vladimir Alexandrovich Olderogge, Mikhail Vasilyevich Lebedev, by the beginning of 1931 - 150 people, mostly former tsarist officers. In May 31, already 750 "participants in the uprising" were arrested, of which about 300 were former tsarist officers. And this is only Kiev. If interested - do not be lazy, all the data on the Internet is in the public domain. And the fact that during the revolution he was under 40 - over 40, so the Second World War began 20 years after the end of the revolution, and it would be many of them under 60 - over 60, normal age. Thank God, not everyone was cleaned, someone stayed, lucky. But the bulk - went for the knife, and then 1941, and oh, oh - betrayal. And who betrayed - party worker Khrushchev? So how could he sabotage what he was not trained in and what he did not understand? I do not believe in the version of betrayal, there was no one to betray, the overwhelming number of commanders had no experience in conducting military operations, as they could, they fought. And they could only fight through w ...
                  1. 0
                    23 May 2017 16: 14
                    You strangely interpret the words arrested and repressed.
                    As an example:
                    Quote: ImPerts
                    Ippolit Paulinovich Voyshin-Murdas-Zhilinsky (April 6 1856 - January 20 1926). 28.09-06.10.1919 - he and his brother were arrested by the Nizhny Novgorod Cheka, after a series of interrogations and partial confiscation of property [1], both were released. [6]
                    1. 0
                      23 May 2017 16: 50
                      They were arrested during the “investigation”, repressed according to its results, what can I interpret here. As far as I know, about 3 thousand people were involved in the Spring case.
                      1. 0
                        24 May 2017 21: 15
                        Passed and repressed ...
                        Signed up for training and came ...
                        Different things.
                  2. 0
                    19 October 2017 15: 45
                    Those who did not fight in the WWI in 37-38 were shot and replaced by the soldiers. Do not write nonsense. Here are just the experience of lieutenants and captains of the PMV will not help much on the general post after 25 years. The generation has changed.
          2. +1
            22 May 2017 20: 59
            And the Germans fought the old cadres, thanks to them the Wehrmacht and proper to Stalingrad.

            and then, thanks to the old shots, he quickly ran to Berlin, where they surrendered with pleasure.
            1. +3
              22 May 2017 21: 27
              Firstly, as I already wrote, we learned to fight at the end of the 42nd and the process went in the opposite direction. And secondly, they didn’t run to Berlin so fast, for more than two years. They preferred to surrender to the Allies, though later they regretted that they did not give up to the Russians - the mortality rate in American camps was enormous.
              1. 0
                23 May 2017 16: 35
                Quote: ecologer
                Firstly, as I already wrote, we learned to fight at the end of 42 and the process went in the opposite direction.

                Have forgotten how to fight?
                1. 0
                  23 May 2017 16: 53
                  Type phrase did not understand?
                  1. 0
                    24 May 2017 21: 19
                    No, dualism has stuck.
              2. 0
                19 October 2017 15: 51
                I'm so funny. But did German generals forget how to fight after Stalingrad? And then the Battle of Kursk, when they lost in general only because of the numbers, somehow does not confirm this. And the Germans themselves did not study during the war?

                The war rolled to the west when Germany had already torn her navel and the Soviet side gained a numerical advantage, which then only increased, and the effectiveness of the Red Army also increased in proportion to this. And this happened because the clumsy generals in 41-43 didn’t notice so much that the losses could not be compensated for in a timely manner.
          3. 0
            19 October 2017 15: 41
            After 15 years, a significant part of them no longer served by age, or even death from old age. Shaposhnikov was a colonel, but he did not survive the Second World War and was especially unable to distinguish himself due to health reasons.
        2. +5
          22 May 2017 23: 42
          ImPerts : Tell you Karbyshev, for political information - a nobleman.

          Karbyshev Dmitry Mikhailovich

          Dmitry Mikhailovich Karbyshev (October 14 (26), 1880, Omsk, Akmola Region, Russian Empire - February 18, 1945, Mauthausen, Third Reich) - Soviet fortifier, the largest Russian scientist-engineer, lieutenant general, doctor of military sciences, professor of the Military Academy of the General headquarters of the Red Army. Hero of the Soviet Union (1946).
          Dmitry Mikhailovich Karbyshev was born in Omsk in the family of the daughter of a college adviser from wealthy Omsk merchants Luzgins Alexandra Efimovna Luzgina and a graduate of the Siberian Cadet Corps of the Crimean War veteran military official Mikhail Ilyich Karbyshev (1829-1892). From the clan Siberian Cossacks of the Karbyshev village of Omsk. Ethnicity - kryashen. In 1898 he was admitted to the Nikolaev Engineering College. In 1900, upon graduation, he was sent to serve in the 1st East Siberian Engineer Battalion, as the head of the cable department of the telegraph company. The battalion was stationed in Manchuria. In 1903 he was promoted to lieutenant. Member of the Russian-Japanese war. In 1911 he graduated with honors from the Nikolaev Military Engineering Academy. By distribution, Captain Karbyshev was sent to Brest-Litovsk as the commander of a mine company. There he took part in the construction of forts of the Brest Fortress. Member of the First World War from the first day. He fought in the Carpathians as part of the 8th Army of General A. A. Brusilova (Southwestern Front). He was a division engineer of the 78th and 69th infantry divisions, then head of the engineering service of the 22nd Finnish Rifle Corps. At the beginning of 1915 he participated in the assault on the Przemysl fortress. He was wounded in the leg. For courage and bravery awarded the Order of St. Anne and promoted to lieutenant colonel. In 1916, he was a member of the famous Brusilovsky breakthrough. In 1917, the manufacturer of work to strengthen its position on the border with Romania. In December 1917, in Mogilev-Podolsky D. М. Karbyshev joined the Red Guard. Since 1918 in the Red Army. Member of the Civil War. In the spring of 1919, D. М. Karbyshev was appointed head of all defensive work on the Eastern Front, participated in the construction of Simbirsk, Samara, Saratov, Chelyabinsk, Zlatoust, Trinity, Kurgan fortified areas; provided for the crossing of the Ufimka and Belaya rivers, the beginning of the offensive on Siberia, designed the defensive structures of Uralsk. In 1923-1926 he was the chairman of the Engineering Committee of the Main Military Engineering Directorate of the Red Army. Since 1926 - a teacher at the Military Academy named after M. AT. Frunze. In 1929 he participated in the design of fortified areas along the western borders of the Soviet Union. In February 1934, he was appointed head of the military engineering department of the General Staff Military Academy. In 1938 he graduated from the Higher Military Academy (General Staff Military Academy). October 23, 1938 approved in the academic title of professor. In 1940 he was awarded the rank of lieutenant general of engineering troops. In 1941 - the degree of Doctor of Military Sciences. Before the start of World War II, he held the post of senior lecturer in the department of tactics of higher formations of the Higher Military Academy. K.E. Voroshilova. Member of the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-1940. As part of the group of the deputy chief of the Main Military Engineering Directorate for Defensive Construction, he worked out recommendations to the troops on the engineering support for breaking the Mannerheim line. Since 1940, a member of the CPSU (b) [18]. In 1940 he carried out the management of fortifications to improve the citadel of the Brest Fortress. In early June 1941, D. М. Karbyshev was sent to the Western Special Military District. The Great Patriotic War found him at the headquarters of the 3rd Army in Grodno. After 2 days, he moved to the headquarters of the 10th Army. On June 27, the army headquarters was surrounded. On August 8, 1941, when trying to get out of encirclement, General Karbyshev was heavily shell-shocked in a battle near the Dnieper, near the village of Dobreyka, Mogilev Region, Belorussian SSR. In an unconscious state he was captured. Karbyshev was held in German concentration camps: Zamosc, Hammelburg, Flossenbürg, Majdanek, Auschwitz, Sachsenhausen and Mauthausen. Repeatedly received offers from the camp administration to cooperate. On the night of February 18, 1945, in the concentration camp Mauthausen (Austria), among about five hundred other prisoners, he was doused with water in the cold and killed after brutal torture. Body D. М.
          State Awards of the Russian Empire:
          02.09.1904/4/XNUMX - Order of St. Vladimir of the XNUMXth degree with swords and bow
          04.11.1904/3/XNUMX - Order of St. Stanislav XNUMXrd degree with a bow
          20.02.1905 - Order of St. Stanislav of the 2nd degree with swords
          Not earlier than 27.03.1905/4/XNUMX - Order of St. XNUMXth degree Anne for carrying personal hilt weapons
          02.01.1905/3/XNUMX - Order of St. XNUMXrd degree Anna with swords and bow
          13.06.1915/2/XNUMX - Order of St. XNUMXnd degree Anna with swords
          3 medals.
          Soviet state awards and titles:
          22.02.1938 - Order of the Red Star
          1938 - medal "XX years of the Red Army"
          1940 - Order of the Red Banner
          16.08.1946 - Order of Lenin, posthumously
          16.08.1946 - Hero of the Soviet Union, posthumously
          During the civil war, D. M. Karbyshev was twice awarded a golden watch with the inscription: "Red fighter of the Socialist Revolution from the All-Russian Central Executive Committee."
          He was elected an honorary Red Army man of the 4th model combat engineer battalion, as a veteran of the Civil War, who provided special services to the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army.
        3. 0
          23 May 2017 20: 39
          Quote: ImPerts
          If you exclude from the lists of repressed drunkards, deceased, fired due to illness, foreigners
          and a foreigner, like, fired with love laughing also got into the "purge", many were repressed. And then, they often did it, they fired, and then they repressed. Did they count?
          1. 0
            24 May 2017 07: 54
            Quote: nizhegorodec
            hit the "purge", many were repressed.

            Or arrested and then released on all four sides?
            Warm with soft should not be confused.

            Quote: nizhegorodec
            The officers and captains in marshal's vestments who graduated from the academy "on the job" are not competitors to him.

            This is a spit in the direction of Zhukov, Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky ???
            1. 0
              24 May 2017 10: 28
              Quote: ImPerts
              This is a spit in the direction of Zhukov,

              Zhukov and Budyonny, but not a spit, but, let’s say, a nod, still marshals.
        4. 0
          23 May 2017 20: 44
          Quote: ImPerts
          Tell you Karbyshev, for political information - a nobleman.

          the fact that he was not repressed along with everyone, not an indicator, an overly competent specialist, it is not known what would become of him after the war, as unnecessary. But after cleaning, Shaposhnikov simply had no replacement, and Stalin understood this very well. The officers and captains in marshal's vestments who graduated from the academy "on the job" are not competitors to him.
      2. 0
        22 May 2017 19: 28
        Better yet, here:
        http://militera.lib.ru/research/pyhalov_i/02.html
        Chapter 2.
        Was the Red Army “decapitated”?
        One of the reasons for the failures of the Soviet Armed Forces at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War is considered to be the repression that their command personnel suffered in 1937-1938.
      3. 0
        23 May 2017 13: 44
        Quote: ecologer
        our illiterate party corporal general

        good
      4. 0
        26 May 2017 17: 10
        Yes, the fact of the matter is that the surrender of the Crimea and the Kharkov operation also fall into the algorithms described above in the video - to put the USSR on the brink of military defeat, and then state, see, comrade Stalin, where you brought the country, let's go and let us steer. And the tsar was also overthrown in 1917 - the maximum disorganization of the military-rear services, so that it was impossible to plan and carry out operations normally, disrupt the capital’s supply, cause discontent among the population, and then force the monarch to renounce everything. As for the fact that our corporals did not know how to fight, so Rokossovsky beat the Germans from the very beginning of the war, he was simply "small" in rank. Voroshilov did not allow Leningrad to be captured and almost set up a boiler for the Germans, he just didn’t manage to catch up and the like ...
        1. 0
          19 October 2017 15: 53
          And Khrushchev in case of defeat in the Second World War, the Germans would not have hung?
  4. +3
    22 May 2017 17: 34
    I have not read the article. I read the headline and remembered how Judas Khrushchev left his people and fled to the rear
  5. +1
    22 May 2017 19: 25
    Kharkov and Crimean military disasters did not happen in 1941, at the beginning of the war. For a year and a half, first of all, the generals and the General Headquarters did not learn mediocrity strategies and even tactics. And their monstrous mistakes paid hundreds of lives of our soldiers. But there were enough weapons.
    1. 0
      22 May 2017 21: 02
      The hardest year for us is not 41, but 42. The generals knew both strategy and tactics, but the enemy was not.
    2. 0
      3 June 2017 14: 20
      homeNN and not that the Union transported thousands of factories from the western part at the beginning of the war. The machines were set up in the open air and then the roof and the wall were put up, and the machines and children and women stood ...
  6. +2
    22 May 2017 20: 36
    Gorodnyansky, Podlas, Bobkin, Kostenko in 1941 rather skillfully led the armies. ... But Tymoshenko and Baghramyan, Soviet intelligence in general, missed Kleist’s strike. Baghramyan considers this to be the basis of the tragedy.
    The fact that Khrushchev is an unpleasant person with exorbitant ambitions is not a reason to relieve responsibility military front management.
    1. +3
      23 May 2017 06: 42
      Khrushchev hated Stalin for not helping to save his son from trebunal, and at that time I was shot for the murder of an officer ... (Moreover, the second time, the first time he saved his son, but he was very dissatisfied with it since he had never been I didn’t do business) In short, Khrushchev had good reason to hate, and it’s silly to believe what he said without checking.
      1. 0
        23 May 2017 06: 54
        Quote: Shurale
        Khrushchev hated Stalin for not helping to save his son from trebunal, and at the time I was shot for the murder of an officer ..

        The story of the death of Leonid Khrushchev has really a touch of muti. But the Kharkov tragedy took place earlier. In any case, you are right that revenge for the son is a possible REASON.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. 0
    23 May 2017 09: 05
    If this had happened under Putin, it’s even scary to imagine a reaction.
    1. 0
      3 June 2017 14: 21
      Probably every second would be a traitor ?!
  9. 0
    26 May 2017 14: 03
    Khrushchev blamed everything on Stalin and Beria. But all his children and grandchildren "dumped" in the United States. Therefore, the conclusions and assessments of Khrushchev, as well as the memoirs written during the period when the junta of Khrushchev seized power, have no historical value. It is known that after the war a lot of lies, as well as after fishing. Historical science in decline.
  10. 0
    1 March 2023 13: 16
    What interesting parallels with 2023, hmm...