The fall of the White Kuban

The fall of the White Kuban
"Tachanka". Mitrofan Grekov's painting, written by him in 1925


Smoot. 1920 year. 100 years ago, in March 1920, the Red Army carried out the Kuban-Novorossiysk operation. Soviet troops of the Caucasus Front completed the defeat of Denikin’s army, liberated the Kuban, the Black Sea province and part of Stavropol.

Running


During the Tikhoretskaya operation, Denikin’s troops suffered a heavy defeat. The Kuban army virtually ceased to exist as a single force. Part of the soldiers fled, part surrendered. Small detachments retreated to the area of ​​Tikhoretskaya, Kavkazskaya and to Stavropol. The volunteer corps left the Don line, which it had so stubbornly and successfully defended before, retreated to Kushchevskaya and then began to retreat further in the Novorossiysk direction. The Don army retreated beyond the Kagalnik river, and then further, towards Tikhoretskaya.

The White cavalry as an organized force was defeated in the Battle of Yegorlyk and could no longer restrain the Red Army with strong counterattacks. The cavalry of the whites, which at times doubled the enemy (in the main Tikhoretsk direction), hung on the flank of the reds and somewhat restrained their movement. However, as General Denikin recalled,

"Struck by a grave mental illness, devoid of will, daring, not believing in her strength, she avoided a serious battle and finally merged with the general human wave in the form of armed detachments, unarmed crowds and huge refugee camps, spontaneously striving to the west."

Budenny’s group, having defeated Pavlov’s equestrian group, did not pursue the donors and volunteers and again set their sights on Tikhoretskaya. The beginning of slaughter and without fighting delayed the movement of the Reds. On March 9, Soviet troops occupied Yeysk, on the same day Budenny's cavalry occupied Tikhoretskaya. Further, the main forces of the Reds aimed at Yekaterinodar and Novorossiysk. On March 11, 2, troops of the 1920th Soviet Army captured Stavropol and reached the Mineralnye Vody area, cutting off the North Caucasian group of General Erdeli from Denikin’s troops. The remnants of the White Guard troops in the Terek-Dagestan Territory made their way to Georgia.

In addition, a new front arose in the rear of the whites. The army of the Black Sea Republic (“green” rebels, which received military-material support from Georgia), moving from Sochi, took Tuapse on February 25, 1920. Representatives of the 9th Soviet Army showed up here. They teamed up with the “greens,” former prisoners of war or fleeing the Red Army. Armed prisoners and defectors, formed several battalions. The new congress proclaimed the creation of the Black Sea Red Army and elected a revolutionary committee. Army troops launched an offensive in two directions: through mountain passes to the Kuban, and in the north, to Gelendzhik and Novorossiysk.

The collapse of the front quickly took the form of general flight. The commander of the Don Army, General Sidorin, tried to create a new line of defense on the Eya River, but without success. The White Guards rolled back along the railway lines to Yekaterinodar and Novorossiysk. Volunteers departed from Yeysk and Timashevskaya to the lower reaches of the Kuban, Don people - from Tikhoretskaya to Yekaterinodar, the remnants of the Kuban army - from the Caucasus and Stavropol. As Denikin wrote,

“Tens of thousands of armed people walked blindly, walked dutifully, where they were led, not refusing to obey the usual routine of service. They refused to go into battle. ”



Evacuation


Panic spread to the population. On all roads, bogging down in the mud, floods of refugees gushed in, mixing with troops, rear services, infirmaries and deserters. Back in January 1920, regardless of the results of the battle on the Don, it was decided to begin evacuation from Novorossiysk abroad. Britain helped with the organization of the evacuation. By order of Denikin, the wounded and sick military, their families and the families of civil servants were primarily taken out. It was also allowed free travel abroad at their own expense to all women, children and men of non-conscript age.

It is clear that this order was not iron, it was often violated. It was possible to leave for money, bribes, by acquaintance, simply filled everyone with available places, etc. On the other hand, many did not dare to leave. They were afraid of the unknown, they left their homeland, did not want to lose touch with their relatives, did not have the means for a new life. Delayed departure, waiting for good news from the front. As a result, many transports left with a shortage of passengers. The British even temporarily interrupted the evacuation, when White won several victories. British transports drove people to Thessaloniki, Cyprus, from the ports they were transported to Serbia. This wave of refugees, despite all the problems and hardships, was relatively prosperous. White Russia was still reckoned with in Europe. Refugees received a minimum supply, could settle down, find a job.

Thanks to this first wave of evacuation Novorossiysk was able to unload somewhat. About 80 thousand people were taken abroad. The second wave began. But now the evacuation was accompanied by panic (soon commissars and Budenovites would come and cut everyone out ...). Those who rushed earlier but did not want to rush to the steamboats hoped for the best. Persons of military age, a mass of officers who dodged the front line, sat in the rear and buzzed in restaurants and taverns. When the smell of fried, they began to knock together in the "officer organization", trying to forcefully seize places on ships. Many made their way and left. Others were hired to guard the ships, movers, the number of which was two and three times the norm.

Panic seized and rear army institutions. There were reports of dismissal "due to illness" or "disappointment" by the White movement. Others simply disappeared, fled. Civil officials also fled. That is, the rear management system, which was already bad, was completely crumbling. And new ones from the Kuban city and villages arrived at the place taken to the city.

White Command Plans


After the failure of the line of defense on the Don, the White Army could either stay on the line of the Kuban or flee to the Crimea. It seemed that there were chances to continue the struggle in the Kuban. Spring thaw, impassable mud prevented not only the retreating Denikins, but also the red ones. Rivers spread widely. The enemy could be tried to stop at the turn of the Kuban and its tributaries, Laba or Belaya. If the Kuban Cossacks had sobered up, mobilized, it would have been possible to maintain a bridgehead in the Kuban, regroup and replenish formations, and go on a counterattack. If not, evacuate to Crimea. The retreat along the Kuban and the North Caucasus, which had fallen into turmoil, into Transcaucasia, hostile to the whites, led to death.

It was necessary to break away from the enemy, save the most combat-ready units, take them to a safe area and then continue the fight. The only bridgehead that could shelter Denikin’s army was Crimea. For volunteers, such an exit was natural. In general, the Volunteer Corps, despite individual episodes of instability and desertion, retained order and discipline. In a hostile environment, their cohesion only increased. Other business Cossacks. The Don people lost their last connection with the Don region and lost hope of returning to the Don. Don Cossacks quickly lost control, discipline and fighting spirit. The rally began. The Cossacks arbitrarily overthrew the commander of the equestrian group, General Pavlov, and replaced General Secretov instead. The commander of the Don army Sidorin could not resist this arbitrariness and was forced to admit the decision of his subordinates.

In addition, in the conditions of the “Kuban turmoil”, Denikin, the Supreme Commander of the FSSL, began to grow “a sense of estrangement and discord between volunteers and Cossacks.” The Cossacks were afraid that the volunteers would abandon them and leave for Novorossiysk. Therefore, when there was a proposal to transfer the Volunteer Corps to the reserve of the commander in chief, this caused great excitement among the Cossacks. Don generals proposed their plan: to abandon the Kuban, rear, communications, base and lightly break through to the north, to the Don. There they were going to wage a guerrilla war, again raise the Don region. Obviously, it was a gamble, a suicide. Don was already exhausted by the war, and individual flashes of red would have easily suppressed. Denikin gave a categorical refusal. But the hidden excitement among the Don people continued.

The situation in the Kuban army also did not give hope. The army of Shkuro, defeated and almost disappeared at the end of February 1920, began to grow again in the face of retreat. Regiments and divisions poured into it, which were endlessly “formed” in the rear due to all kinds of security and rear units, which did not want to go to the front lines, due to the huge number of deserters that overwhelmed the villages and did not want to fall into the hands of the enemy. True, all these crowds poured into the Kuban army not in order to fight, but in order to drape. In fact, now under the leadership of Shkuro there was no army, but armed crowds, completely decomposed and demoralized.

Volunteers, angered by the behavior of the donors, also began to express their displeasure. The core of the Volunteer Corps of General Kutepov tried to give battle at every convenient line. But due to the withdrawal of the Cossacks constantly fell under enemy flank attacks. Volunteers were bypassed, and they were forced to withdraw due to the weakness of their neighbors. So, on the night of March 15, the right wing of the Don army after an unsuccessful battle near Korenovskaya rolled back to Plastunovskaya (30 versts from Ekaterinodar). Kutepov’s corps at that time restrained the enemy in the Timashevskaya region, and red cavalry had already appeared in its rear. This forced the volunteers to begin the withdrawal. General Sidorin, whose operational submission was the Volunteer Corps, ordered a counterattack to be launched and a return to the position of Timashevskaya. The headquarters of the volunteers believed that it would lead to environment and death. As a result, Denikin reassigned the Volunteer Corps to himself.

On March 12, 1920, the headquarters of the Volunteer Corps sent a sharp telegram to the commander in chief. Kutepov noted that it is impossible to count on the Cossacks anymore, therefore, decisive measures must be taken to save the corps. Under the control of the corps, the Timashevskaya-Novorossiysk railway, several transports ready for the immediate evacuation of the corps and the command of the VSYUR were supposed to go over. All power in the rear and watercraft was transferred into the hands of the corps commander. Denikin sharply answered Kutepov, reminded that everything that is needed for the evacuation is being done. The order has been restored.

Thus, the run continued. All plans, calculations and ideas were broken about the elements. The psychology of a demoralized, decaying mass has broken all the sober and rational calculations of the white command.

Recent Resistance Attempts


First, Denikin wanted to stop the enemy at the turn of the river. Beisug. It was necessary to gain time for the planned crossing of troops across the Kuban, the evacuation of the right bank and Yekaterinodar. General Sidorin received an order to assemble his corps in the Korenovskaya area and counter-attack with the right wing. The Soviet command also concentrated large forces in this direction, including the Cavalry Army, which advanced east of Korenovskaya. Don Cossacks, even under the command of Sidorin personally, did not go into battle. Each time, when trying to attack, they turned back. And when the Reds went on the offensive, they retreated. Volunteers at Timashevskaya also had to give up their positions and break through with battle. The rear guard (Drozdovtsy) had to leave the environment already.

As a result, by March 16, the Volunteer Corps, the Don Army and part of the Kuban Army were in two transitions from Yekaterinodar. The headquarters and the government of Denikin moved to Novorossiysk. The Supreme Cossack circle gathered for the last meeting. Chairman of the Kuban Timoshenko said that the Cossacks are no longer subordinate to Denikin, especially since the Stavka is no longer there, as well as relations with it. The Cossacks finally quarreled again. The Cossack circle has broken up. The Kuban delegation went to their army, the Don - to their own. In Yekaterinodar there were many refugees, sick and wounded, who were not managed to be taken out. The Denikin government agreed with the Bolsheviks in prison, led by Limansky. The Communists were released, and they made a promise to save the wounded and sick. Limansky already played this role in 1918.

On March 16, 1920, Denikin informed the commanders that the last line of defense was the boundary of the Kuban-Laba rivers, in the extreme Belaya. The White Guards failed to organize the defense of Yekaterinodar. Around the city were prepared positions, there were enough troops, but there was no fighting spirit at all. As soon as March 17 the Reds went to storm Yekaterinodar, the Kubans fled. The Don people left behind them. Particularly unstable was the 4th Don Corps, previously the best in the Don Army, the base of the shock mounted group. After heavy defeats and losses, he was demoralized. In addition, the Don people flanked in contact with the Kubans and became infected by panic. When there was a rumor about an uprising in the rear, in a working suburb, the troops were seized with real panic. As Shkuro reported, entire divisions fled, robbing liquor stores and cellars along the way, drunk with looted alcohol and wine:

“Shame and shame on the Cossacks, it is incredibly painful and hard ...”

The Soviet troops, the cavalry corps and two rifle divisions, stood near the city almost all day, firing artillery on the outskirts of Yekaterinodar, not believing that the enemy was simply running. Waiting for a dirty trick, white military cunning. In addition, the streets and bridges across the Kuban were forgotten by running troops and refugees, we had to wait until the crowd subsided. On the same day, March 17, Denikin gave the order to withdraw the army from the Kuban and Laba, to destroy all crossings. In fact, the Kuban and Don units began crossing the 16th and finished the 17th. And the crossings, which no one took care of, were immediately occupied by the Reds. Soviet troops easily crossed the Kuban and cut the enemy’s front in half. The volunteer corps had to break through with battles with a strong red cavalry, which began to be massively replenished by the rebels and the Kuban people who sided with the Red Army. March 18, volunteers crossed the Kuban.

To be continued ...
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  1. is-22 5 March 2020 07: 56 New
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    It was impossible to win the civil war with white. Their programs for organizing the new Russia were so anti-people that it was impossible to count on mass support.
    1. Varyag_0711 5 March 2020 08: 14 New
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      Not only were their programs anti-popular, they were so stained by robberies, violence and executions of the common people that even sympathizers turned their backs on them. And then, already for one cooperation with foreign invaders, they should all be completely destroyed as enemies and traitors of Russia.
      There is no and will not be forgiveness to these monsters!
      1. Alexander Suvorov 5 March 2020 08: 29 New
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        As Denikin wrote,
        “Tens of thousands of armed people walked blindly, walked dutifully, where they were led, without refusing to obey the usual routine of service. Refused only to go into battle».
        Where is olgovich, with his "for the one and the indivisible"? What, the motivation of the whites has ended, that the fully combat-ready units could no longer be organized for any serious resistance?
        Or maybe everything was easier, the soldiers finally saw for whom and for what they were fighting? Maybe they finally realized that "the people are not with us, the people are against us"?
        That's right, there was no chance for White to win this war. Just because the truth was on the side of the Bolsheviks and the people felt and supported their side, and against the whole nation, not a single army, no matter how strong it was, has no chance. So rightly so.
    2. Victorio 5 March 2020 08: 58 New
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      Quote: is-22
      It was impossible to win the civil war with white. Their programs for organizing the new Russia were so anti-people that it was impossible to count on mass support.

      ====
      I think it was possible with proper guidance and on parts of Russia, the same south or east of the country
      1. Varyag_0711 5 March 2020 09: 19 New
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        Victorio (Victor)
        I think it was possible with proper guidance and on parts of Russia, the same south or east of the country
        How do you imagine that? And why then didn’t they win? To win the war, first of all, you need to have a strong rear, i.e. the support of the people, and such did not have and could not be white.
        1. Victorio 5 March 2020 09: 25 New
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          Quote: Varyag_0711
          Victorio (Victor)
          I think it was possible with proper guidance and on parts of Russia, the same south or east of the country
          How do you imagine that? And why then didn’t they win? To win the war, first of all, you need to have a strong rear, i.e. the support of the people, and such did not have and could not be white.

          ===
          I imagine, an experienced, competent military leadership, with the involvement of a competent civilian administration, proper discipline in everything, drawing peasants and other sections of the population to their side with slogans, promises and actions, because it was no longer possible to return to the old system of command and control. the Bolsheviks and their supporters lost in many respects, with the exception of one, by a revolutionary outburst, a desire to sweep away everything old. however, with a systemic and serious confrontation, this impulse could be suppressed, and an example of this was already similar in 1905.
          1. Varyag_0711 5 March 2020 09: 36 New
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            Victorio (Victor)
            I imagine experienced
            And what, Kornilov (practically New Napoleon), Denikin, Alekseev, Wrangel, Yudenich and other experiences did not have?
            with competent civil administration
            But White had big problems with this. And the point is not in their illiteracy and incompetence, but in the white ideology itself, which could not oppose anything to the red ideology.
            attracting the peasantry and other segments of the population to their side with slogans, promises and actions
            I wonder what? What could white contrast with red? And if White would use the same slogans as the Reds, then what is the point in war?
            for it was no longer possible to return to the old control system and device
            So they fought for the old privileges, they could not offer anything else to the people. Otherwise, they would cease to be white and turn red.
            You apparently generally do not understand the essence of what was happening at that time? White could not offer anything to the people, except what the Reds had already proposed. They could win only in one case, if they switched to the side of the Reds.
            So do not write nonsense, White would not have succeeded, under any circumstances. They did not have a single chance of victory.
            1. Victorio 5 March 2020 09: 45 New
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              Quote: Varyag_0711
              So do not write nonsense, White would not have succeeded, in any case. They did not have a single chance of victory

              ===

              I forgot to ask you what to write and what not.
              if you don’t see or don’t want to see other options - this is yours, not mine.
              1. Varyag_0711 5 March 2020 09: 47 New
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                Victorio (Victor)
                if you don’t see or don’t want to see other options - this is yours, not mine.
                There were no other options. And all your delights from the evil one, like if your grandmother had a cucumber, she would be a grandfather ...
                1. Victorio 5 March 2020 09: 48 New
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                  Quote: Varyag_0711
                  Victorio (Victor)
                  if you don’t see or don’t want to see other options - this is yours, not mine.
                  There were no other options. And all your delights from the evil one, like if your grandmother had a cucumber, she would be a grandfather ...

                  ====
                  take it easy there wasn’t, it wasn’t
                  1. Varyag_0711 5 March 2020 09: 49 New
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                    Yes, I didn’t worry to calm down. Calm yourself.
                    1. Victorio 5 March 2020 09: 50 New
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                      Quote: Varyag_0711
                      Yes, I didn’t worry to calm down. Calm yourself.

                      ===
                      well then leave me alone
          2. BAI
            BAI 5 March 2020 12: 38 New
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            attracting the peasantry and other segments of the population to their side with slogans, promises and actions

            This means that white should have turned red because only the Bolsheviks offered land to peasants and factories for workers. And why then the war?
            1. Victorio 5 March 2020 13: 00 New
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              Quote: BAI
              attracting the peasantry and other segments of the population to their side with slogans, promises and actions

              That means white should have turned red because only the Bolsheviks offered land to peasants and factories for workers.And why then the war?

              ===
              why not, promise and do are two different things. if the Bolsheviks did this to attract, why not their opponents. victory first, device then.
              why war? probably because the Bolsheviks did not want to share, to compromise. but the same claims can be addressed to the opponents of the Reds.
          3. Sugar Honeyovich 5 March 2020 13: 44 New
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            Quote: Victorio
            experienced, competent military leadership, with the involvement of a competent civil administration, proper discipline in everything, attracting the peasantry and other segments of the population to their side with slogans, promises and actions

            And with due action on the part of our kings, such as the abolition of estate division (at least de facto), the transfer of land to peasants, the introduction of free education, health care, pension, trade unions, etc. etc. no revolutions would simply be required.
            As they say, it was a small matter ... wink
            1. Victorio 5 March 2020 22: 24 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              giving land to peasants,

              ====
              I think this was going, sorry they didn’t let P.A. Stolypin
              1. Sugar Honeyovich 6 March 2020 16: 19 New
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                What went under Stolypin, Lenin wrote well:
                “raising fees from the peasants for land, this is the best thing that the government could come up with to facilitate our agitation against it. This is an excellent way to further embitter the peasants and bring them to the side of our slogan: a complete rejection of all payments for land, which should all move to the peasants with the victory of the revolution ....
                keep up the good work, gentlemen, Stolypin! You work well for us! You excite the population better than we could do it. "

                "The situation is undoubtedly revolutionary. The struggle in its most acute form is certainly inevitable.
                But precisely because it is inevitable, there is nothing for us to force, push, whip it up. Let Krushevany and Stolypin take care of this "

                "Stolypin's" success "in the coming years could lead, at best, to the separation of a layer of consciously counter-revolutionary, Octobrist peasants, but just such a transformation of a prosperous minority into a politically conscious united force would inevitably mean a giant impetus to develop political consciousness and unite the democratic mass against such a minority . The best we, the Social Democrats, could not wish for ... "

                "The defeat of the revolution as a result of this first campaign did not reveal the incorrectness of tasks, not the" utopianism "of immediate goals, not the incorrectness of means and methods, but the insufficient preparedness of forces, the insufficient depth and breadth of the revolutionary crisis, and Stolypin and Co. are working to deepen and expand it. with the most laudable zeal. "

                And if Stolypin was allowed to turn around? !!! stop negative
                1. Victorio 6 March 2020 16: 49 New
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                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  What went under Stolypin, Lenin wrote well
                  : And if Stolypin was allowed to turn around? !!! stop

                  ====
                  I have no doubt that Lenin writes "a lot of good" about Stolypin.
                  but what would happen if they would give a stolypin, one can only speculate.
                  1. Sugar Honeyovich 6 March 2020 18: 22 New
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                    With a high degree of probability, we can assume that it is known. In civilian life, Stolypin was recalled by expressions similar to Lenin's.
                    1. Victorio 8 March 2020 09: 38 New
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                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      With a high degree of probability, we can assume that it is known. In civilian life, Stolypin was recalled by expressions similar to Lenin's.

                      ===
                      a fraction of the probability you naturally. increase towards your opinion. it doesn’t surprise that very confident people are gathering in, on the Internet, of course
            2. strannik1985 6 March 2020 17: 10 New
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              And with due action from our kings

              Then an analogue of the Stolypin reform had to be carried out in 1861, when the average allotment in the 50 provinces of the Empire was 4,8 tithes per capita of the peasant population, and investing money (without ransom!) Is very decent.
  2. The leader of the Redskins 5 March 2020 08: 12 New
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    Thanks, read with interest.
    1. 210ox 5 March 2020 11: 36 New
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      Samsonov certainly writes interestingly. Only all these "Soviet troops", etc. .. Either copy, or invent. Then there was the Red Army.
  3. Slavutich 5 March 2020 08: 18 New
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    Interesting!
  4. Aviator_ 5 March 2020 08: 33 New
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    If the Kuban Cossacks had sobered up, mobilized, it would have been possible to maintain a bridgehead in the Kuban, regroup and replenish formations, and go on a counterattack.

    If the leadership of the white movement had sobered up, then it would have gone to full surrender. But the fear of an answer for the Maykop massacre in 1918 and other similar episodes from 18 to 20 made the situation what it turned out to be - an erratic drape.
    1. 210ox 5 March 2020 11: 37 New
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      If he had sobered, he shot himself ..
  5. Stirbjorn 5 March 2020 11: 29 New
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    The volunteer corps had to break through with battles with a strong red cavalry, which was massively replenished by the rebels and the Kuban people who sided with the Red Army.
    And they did it right, instead of stupid emigration - who needed them there abroad? capitalist brothers ?! it's funny
  6. Sugar Honeyovich 5 March 2020 14: 19 New
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    In 1918, the Kuban Cossacks carried out punitive operations against neighbors, the Stavropol peasants, who rebelled against the Volunteer Army.
    As the war dragged on, the Kuban began a mass evasion of the front or direct desertion to combat which the white command sent Don Cossacks to the Kuban. This “fight” usually took place - executions (including every tenth), flogging and, of course, robbery.
    When the retreat of the Armed Forces of the South of Russia began, the Don Cossacks met from the Kuban side a similarly "hot" reception, which reached real battles. In addition, now the WHITE soldiers from mobilized Stavropol peasants took out the old grievances on the Kuban.
    And now everything that was against the Cossacks is called the "Red Terror" ...
    1. Victorio 5 March 2020 22: 19 New
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      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      And now everything that was against the Cossacks is called the "Red Terror" ...

      ====
      the trouble is that in those days they did not burden with proceedings who is guilty and who is not. and on both sides, therefore the terror is called red, white. one is guilty, and the whole family is repressed / expelled, and sometimes including other relatives.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich 6 March 2020 16: 08 New
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        Quote: Victorio
        therefore, the terror is called red, white. one is guilty, and the whole family is repressed / expelled, and sometimes including other relatives.

        Why "why"? And most importantly - how in many cases to determine the "color" of terror?
    2. coloneLLobo 6 March 2020 17: 27 New
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      that is, those Cossacks who fought in the white movement and carried out unfortunate orders - punishers, and those who refused, said "this is not our war" - deserters? Ek you made a distinction =)) but yourself, "and smart and beautiful."
  7. place 5 March 2020 18: 26 New
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    The Bolsheviks attracted the peasantry not with slogans, but with the legislation of the RSFSR. Decree of the land. To contrast THIS with collective-farm reforms of the late 20s is clear speculation.
  8. coloneLLobo 6 March 2020 15: 09 New
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    no one has ever accused Kuban of cowardice, even their most avid detractors. The “Kubanians ran” after they killed Ryabovol, dispersed the Kuban Rada and hanged the priest Kulabukhov. All because Denikin decided to play in a strong hand. This could work with the Russians or with the eastern peoples especially, but not with the Cossacks. Pompous nerd, playing in the master, completely ignored the mentality of the local population. For which he was sent. These are objective facts that everyone can verify according to the testimonies of those times. And now my value judgment is that it was the outcome of the Kuban from the front that became the decisive cause of the defeat in the south.
    1. Ham
      Ham 6 March 2020 17: 11 New
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      This could work with the Russians or with the eastern peoples especially,

      and the Cossacks are not Russian or Eastern peoples? It was always believed that a Cossack is an estate ... are you a Cossack nationalist?
      1. Victorio 6 March 2020 17: 32 New
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        Quote: Ham
        Эit could work with the Russians or with the eastern peoples especially,

        and the Cossacks are not Russian or Eastern peoples? It was always believed that a Cossack is an estate ... are you a Cossack nationalist?

        ===
        here the mentality matters and the difference. just imagine a Russian peasant being resettled / relocated to the Don / Kuban \ Siberia ... gets a good allotment, gets a good allowance, serves (dangerous service), lives among his colleagues with common concerns. so for generations. my relative traced the genealogy of the clan from the end of the seventeenth century, moved from the Yaroslavl region to the Kuban, and served in the Kuban generations of Cossacks. and naturally, after a couple of centuries, the descendants of the settlers, now serving Cossacks, will differ from the peasants of the same Kursk region, for example.
        1. Ham
          Ham 6 March 2020 18: 03 New
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          ordinary peasants likewise moved to the Urals, to Siberia to free lands, but they didn’t really differ in mentality .... but let's say what to do with the Bashkir-Meshcheryak army? Bashkirs and Bashkirs-Cossacks were very different in mentality? They didn’t differ in mentality but in duties and preferences ... roughly speaking, the Cossacks were a more privileged estate that had more nishtyaks from the tsar-priest ... and they fought for that ...
          and about the "Cossack mentality" Sholokhov described everything in the "Quiet Don"
          1. Victorio 6 March 2020 18: 10 New
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            Quote: Ham
            ordinary peasants likewise moved to the Urals, to Siberia to free lands, but they didn’t really differ in mentality .... but let's say what to do with the Bashkir-Meshcheryak army? Bashkirs and Bashkirs-Cossacks were very different in mentality? They didn’t differ in mentality but in duties and preferences ... roughly speaking, the Cossacks were a more privileged estate that had more nishtyaks from the tsar-priest ... and they fought for that ...
            and about the "Cossack mentality" Sholokhov described everything in the "Quiet Don"

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            I wrote about this to you, there were differences, good and bad (yes, and Sholokhov described it), but they were, and due to this and that. I can’t say anything about the Bashkirs, unlike the Kuban Cossacks, for he and his ancestors are from there.
            1. Ham
              Ham 6 March 2020 18: 41 New
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              "Cossack separatism" ... that’s what Sholokhov wrote
              not for nothing all the enemies of Russia so hoped for the "Cossack" as an instrument of the collapse of Russia ... they sold Russia no worse than other "supreme rulers"
              1. Victorio 6 March 2020 18: 44 New
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                Quote: Ham
                "Cossack separatism" ... that’s what Sholokhov wrote
                not for nothing all the enemies of Russia so hoped for the "Cossack" as an instrument of the collapse of Russia ... they sold Russia no worse than other "supreme rulers"

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                you about the root causes and it was written. the rest is up to you.
      2. mmaxx 8 March 2020 07: 26 New
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        Cossacks did not consider themselves Russian. They considered themselves a separate nation.
  9. Ham
    Ham 6 March 2020 17: 09 New
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    Well, as usual - it’s only a robber’s robbery ... as soon as they gave in the teeth - they rushed without looking back
    1. coloneLLobo 6 March 2020 17: 13 New
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      whether it was the case of the great-shreds, the master used to weigh a bream, but nowhere to run. Catch and fly. Tolerated =)
      1. Ham
        Ham 6 March 2020 17: 20 New
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        Stenka Razin and Emelka Pugacheva were given their ... prosperous Cossacks who had something to lose;)
        and what's the difference in who you weigh the bream - master or rich stanitsa, then this is of course the tenth