Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia

Last photo of A.V. Kolchak. 1920

Smoot. 1920 year. 100 years ago, on the night of February 7, 1920, the “Supreme Ruler of All Russia” was shot by Admiral Alexander Kolchak and chairman of his government Viktor Pepelyaev. In liberal Russia, Kolchak was turned into a hero and a martyr, whom the "bloody Bolsheviks" destroyed.

The fall of the Siberian government

Amid the complete defeat of the Kolchak army, the complete collapse of the rear, general flight, the activation of partisans and peasant rebels, widespread uprisings against the Siberian government in Irkutsk, the Political Center revolted. It was a political association of the Socialist Revolutionaries, Mensheviks and Zemstvo. The political center set the task of overthrowing Kolchak and creating a “free democratic” state in Siberia and the Far East. They received the support of a large part of the rear garrisons who did not want to fight the Entente, for which the end of the Kolchak regime was obvious.

On December 24, 1919, the uprising of the Political Center in Irkutsk began. The rebels were led by Captain Kalashnikov, who then led the People's Revolutionary Army. At the same time, local Bolsheviks and workers, who were supported by partisans, raised an uprising. But initially the superiority of forces was in favor of the Political Center. Kolchak appointed Ataman Semenov commander of the Far East and Irkutsk District and ordered to restore order in the city. Semenov sent a detachment, but it was insignificant and could not break into the city. In addition, Czechoslovakians opposed the Semenovites, so they had to retreat.

The “supreme ruler” Kolchak at that time was blocked in Nizhneudinsk, 500 km from Irkutsk. The uprising also began here. The representative of the Supreme Inter-Union Command and the Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Forces in Siberia and the Far East, General Janin ordered not to let the Kolchak train and the gold train go further. Czechs unhooked and stole steam locomotives. Kolchak protested, but he did not have military strength to counter violence. The remnants of combat-ready Kolchak troops under the command of Kappel were far from Nizhneudinsk, making their way through snow and forest, repelling enemy attacks. The "Nizhneudinsky sitting" began. The station was declared "neutral", Czechoslovakians acted as guarantors of the admiral's security. The rebels did not meddle here. Kolchak was offered to run: he had a convoy, you could take as much gold as they would carry away, and go towards Mongolia. However, he did not dare to do so. It is possible that he still hoped to "agree", did not believe that he would be surrendered. Kolchak granted freedom of action to the soldiers and officers of the convoy. Almost everyone dispersed. The Czechs immediately secured gold. The connection was in their hands, and the "supreme" was cut off from the outside world.

At that time, negotiations were ongoing in Irkutsk between General Zhanen, the Political Center and the Council of Ministers on the transfer of power to the Political Center. Kolchak was represented by the “emergency three” - General Khanzhin (Minister of War), Cherven-Vodali (head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs) and Larionov (Ministry of Railways). The negotiations were initiated by Janin, under his chairmanship and in his train. In fact, the Entente forced the Kolchak government to resign. Kolchak was specially cut off from Irkutsk so that he could not influence the events there. At first, the Kolchak ministers resisted, but under strong pressure, Janin was forced to accept the Political Center and its conditions. On January 4–5, 1920, the Political Center won in Irkutsk. The Provisional Council of the Siberian National Administration created by the Political Center declared itself power in the territory from Irkutsk to Krasnoyarsk.

Treason and arrest of the supreme ruler

The Western allies demanded that Kolchak renounce the supreme power, guaranteeing in this case a safe trip abroad. However, this was originally a hoax. The issue of extradition of the admiral has already been resolved. Formally, Jeanin at this price ensured the free passage of foreign missions and troops and the supply of coal with echelons. In fact, the forces of the Provisional Council were weak to impede the movement of the Westerners. Only Czechoslovakians had a whole army, armed and equipped to the teeth. In particular, when needed, the Czechs easily neutralized the Semenovites who stood in their way, destroyed their armored trains. In fact, it was a political decision: Kolchak was written off, "the Moor has done his job, the Moor can leave." But the political center needed an admiral for bargaining with the Bolsheviks.

Only the Japanese at the beginning took a different position. They tried to help the "supreme" in order to use it to maintain the regime of their puppet Semenov. But under pressure from the French and Americans, the Japanese were forced to abandon the support of the admiral. In addition, in the Irkutsk region, they did not have serious forces to defend their position.

But before the arrest, Kolchak had to renounce the supreme power, even formal. It was a tribute to decency: it was one thing to extradite the head of the union state, and another private person. Kolchak’s position became hopeless. He missed his last chance when he refused to run. Partisans and the Red Army advanced in the west, rebels in Nizhneudinsk, and enemies in the east. January 5, 1920 Kolchak signed the abdication, he appointed Denikin as the supreme ruler. In the Russian East, supreme power was transferred to Semenov.

On January 10, traffic began in Irkutsk: Kolchak’s wagons and Pepelyaev’s head of government were attached to the echelon of the 6th Czech regiment, followed by the gold echelon. When the trains arrived in Cheremkhovo, the local revolutionary committee and the working committee demanded that Kolchak be given to them. After negotiations with the Czechs, they agreed to further movement, but local warriors joined the admiral's guard. On January 15, trains arrived in Irkutsk. Allied missions have already departed further east. In the evening, Czechoslovakians handed Kolchak to representatives of the Political Center. Kolchak and Pepelyaev were placed in the building of the provincial prison. In the case of Kolchak, an investigation commission was created.

The transfer of power to the Bolsheviks

The political situation in Irkutsk quickly changed. The political center could not hold on to power. From the very beginning, he shared power with the Irkutsk Provincial Committee of the RCP (B.). The Bolsheviks were offered to create a coalition government, but they refused. Power and so passed to them. They have already seized control of the troops, labor squads, and have drawn partisans to their side. They quickly ceased to reckon with the Political Center. On January 19, the Military Revolutionary Committee (WRC) was created. The extraordinary commission was headed by the Bolshevik Chudnovsky, who was already a member of the commission of inquiry in the Kolchak case.

The Czechs, seeing that the real power was transferred to the Bolsheviks, surrendered the “democrats" from the Political Center. The Bolsheviks entered into negotiations with the Czechs to liquidate the Political Center and transfer all power to them. The Czechs agreed with the condition that their agreement with the Social Revolutionaries on the free passage of Czechoslovak troops to the east with all their good will remain in force. On January 21, the Political Center ceded the power of the military-industrial complex. Kolchak and Pepelyaev were automatically transferred to the Bolsheviks.

The offensive of the Kappel people. Admiral's death

At this time, news of Kappel's troops began to arrive. After the battle of Krasnoyarsk (The battle for Krasnoyarsk), where the whites were defeated and suffered heavy losses, the Kolchakites barely broke through the Yenisei and retreated in several groups. The column of General Sakharov retreated along the Siberian Highway and the railway. Kappel’s column went north along the Yenisei River below Krasnoyarsk, then along the Kan River to Kansk, planning to enter the Kansk railway and connect with Sakharov’s troops there. Kolchakites managed to break away from the Reds, who lingered in Krasnoyarsk on vacation. The remnants of the white units were to finish off the partisans.

As it turned out, the White Guards were deducted from their accounts early. The former white armies left small groups. But these were the “implacable”, the best soldiers and officers, the Kappelites, Votkintsy, Izhevsk, part of the Orenburg and Siberian Cossacks, all who did not want to desert and be taken prisoner. They made their way through partisan lands, died of typhus, cold and hunger, but stubbornly made their way to the east. Having learned about the uprising in Kansk and the garrison moving to the side of the Reds, Kappel went around the city from the south on January 12-14. Then the troops moved along the Siberian Highway and on January 19th occupied the Zamzor station, where they learned about the uprising in Irkutsk. On January 22, the Kappelites drove out the Red partisans from Nizhneudinsk. Kappel was already dying - during a trip along the Kan River, he fell into the wormwood, froze his legs. The amputation of the legs and pneumonia finished off the general. At the military council, it was decided to go to Irkutsk and release Kolchak. January 24 began the offensive Kolchakites in Irkutsk. On January 26, Kappel died at the Utai railway junction, transferring command to General Wojciechowski.

The whites had only 5-6 thousand combat-ready soldiers, several active guns and 2-3 machine guns per division. It was even worse with ammunition. Sick, exhausted, going beyond the limits of human capabilities, they moved to Irkutsk, terrible in their impulse. The Bolsheviks tried to stop them and sent troops to meet them. But in the battle at Zima station on January 30, the Reds were defeated. After a short rest on February 3, the Kappelites continued to move and immediately took Cheremkhovo, 140 km from Irkutsk.

In response to the Reds ultimatum on surrender, Wojciechowski put forward his ultimatum: the general promised to bypass Irkutsk if the Bolsheviks surrendered Kolchak, his associates, supplied the White Guards with food and fodder and paid a contribution of 200 million rubles. It is clear that the Bolsheviks refused. Kappelevtsy went on an assault, broke through to Innokentyevskaya, 7 km from the city. Irkutsk declared a state of siege, mobilized all they could, built a solid defense. However, Kolchakites continued to rush forward. The battle was rare in rage. Both sides fought fiercely, did not take prisoners. Contemporaries recalled that they did not remember such a fierce battle.

Under the pretext of the threat of the fall of the city, Admiral Kolchak and Pepelyaev were shot on the night of February 7, 1920. They were shot without trial, by order of the Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee. The bodies of the dead were thrown into the ice hole on the Hangar. On the same day, the Bolsheviks signed an agreement on neutrality with the Czechs. At this time, the White Guards took Innokentyevskaya, broke the line of urban defense. But the further assault lost its significance. Upon learning of the execution of Kolchak, Wojciechowski stopped the attack. In addition, the Czechs demanded not to continue the offensive. Fighting with fresh Czechoslovak troops was suicide.

Kappelevtsy went around the city and moved to the village of Bolshoy Goloustnoe on the shore of Lake Baikal. Then the White Guards crossed Baikal on ice, which was another feat of the Great Ice Campaign. In total, 30-35 thousand people crossed the lake. From the Mysova station, the White Guards and refugees continued their campaign (about 600 km) to Chita, which they reached in early March 1920.

New Kolchak

After the collapse of the USSR and the victory of the liberals, who are considered the heirs of the White movement, the creeping rehabilitation of the enemies of the Red Army and Soviet power began. Denikin, Wrangel, Mannerheim, Kolchak and other enemies of Soviet Russia became the "heroes" of the new Russia.

The problem is that Kolchak was an enemy of the people and a mercenary of foreign capital. First, the admiral betrayed Tsar Nicholas II (along with other generals), and joined the revolutionary revolutionaries. That is, he became an accomplice in the destruction of "historical Of Russia. ” Then the admiral entered the service of the Entente. He recognized himself as a “condottiere,” that is, a mercenary, an adventurer in the service of the West. It was used in the war against the Russian people. The fact is that Kolchak and many other generals and officers chose the wrong side. They chose the camp of the capitalists, the big bourgeoisie, big capital, foreign predators who tore Russia apart. There was a choice. A significant part of the Russian officers, many generals chose the people, although many personally did not like the Bolsheviks, therefore they fought in the Red Army for the future of working-peasant, popular Russia.

As a result, white generals (even personally interesting, strong personalities, talented generals who have many merits to the Fatherland) opposed the people, against Russian civilization. They fought for the interests of our geopolitical "partners", enemies who sentenced Russia and the Russian people to destruction, the country to dismemberment and plunder. For the interests of domestic "bourgeois" who wanted to preserve factories, factories, ships and capital.

Alexander Kolchak, no doubt, was a protege of the West. He was assigned to “save” Russia in London and Washington. West generously supplied the Kolchak regime weapons, for this he received Russian gold, control over the Siberian Railway (in fact, over the entire eastern part of Russia. The West, while it was profitable for him, turned a blind eye to the atrocities and war crimes of the Kolchakites. After the six-month reign of the “supreme ruler”, General Budberg (supply and Minister of War of the Kolchak government) recorded:

"The uprisings and local anarchy are spreading all over Siberia ... the main areas of the uprising are the settlements of Stolypin agrarians - sent sporadically punitive detachments ... burn villages, hang up and, where possible, mess things up."

When the "Moor did his job," it was already possible to reveal part of the truth. So, the representative of the American mission in Siberia, General Greves wrote:

“Terrible murders were committed in Eastern Siberia, but they were not committed by the Bolsheviks, as they usually thought. I’m not mistaken if I say that in Eastern Siberia for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, there were 100 people killed by anti-Bolshevik elements. ”

The command of the Czechoslovak Corps noted:

“Under the protection of Czechoslovak bayonets, the local Russian military authorities allow themselves actions that are horrified by the entire civilized world. The burning of villages, the beating of peaceful Russian citizens by hundreds, the shooting of representatives of democracy without trial on the mere suspicion of political unreliability is a common occurrence ... ”

Although in reality, Westerners, including the Czechs, themselves were marked by terrible atrocities and looting in Russia.

Thus, while Kolchak was needed, he was supported, when his regime was exhausted, he was handed over as a used disposable tool. The admiral was not even taken out to give the estate and pension for a good job. He was cynically surrendered and sentenced to death. At the same time, Kolchak himself helped the Western "allies" - he transferred them to control the Siberian Railway, the key artery of the region and his army.

Modern attempts to whitewash the admiral and other white military and political leaders are connected with the desire to permanently establish in Russia a semi-capitalist (comprador, oligarchic), neo-feudal regime with class-caste society, where "new nobles", "masters of life" appeared, and there are ordinary people - "Losers" who did not fit into the "market". Hence the new historical mythology with the "white heroes" and the "Bolsheviks-bloodsuckers" who destroyed the abundant and prosperous Russia, established a slave system. What such mythology and ideology leads to is clearly seen in the example of the former post-Soviet republics, where desovetization has already won. This collapse, blood, extinction and total idiocy of the masses.

Monument to A. V. Kolchak in Irkutsk at the Znamensky Monastery. Installed in 2004. Sculptor Vyacheslav Klykov

Comments

[Grandfather]

Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia

we live with the flag, under which the Vlasov fought. And Yudenich and Wrangel with Denikin, no longer know how to lick yet.

[Gardamir]

In 1945, when the Nazi symbols were banned, no one could even think that the symbols of Vlasov, the Russland divisions and the like would triumphantly enter the country.

[vladimirZ]

In Siberia, until the end of the 80s, they remembered the atrocities of the Kolchak people from the stories of grandfathers and grandmothers. I also remember that among the nicknames for dogs was "Kolchak", so the people hated the now exalted "supreme ruler".
Essentially in Siberia, Kolchak’s troops were defeated by popular partisans who massively opposed the Whites long before the Red Army arrived in Siberia. In all the ancient cities of Siberia, there are monuments to the dead red partisans, and the victims of Kolchakovo executions, and the street names in honor of the heroes of the red partisan detachments.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Well, we live in a country where traitors are now honored and respected. A traitor and a Judas-labeled bear are awarded state awards, a drunkard is being built by Yeltsentr centers, a mannerheim guilty of the death of hundreds of thousands of Leningraders, a memorial plaque is hung up, a Judge Solzhenitsin is introduced into the school curriculum, a monument to the frank Nazi henchman is put up (it’s not private, but has rights), in Rossosh, a pan-monument to Italian fascists, in the Crimea a monument to Wrangel, etc. etc.
Like the new Russia needs new "heroes", does it remind anyone of anything? I'm already funny from these talk shows about Ukraine, I just want to ask, what are you better?
Monuments to real heroes and patriots (now specifically about Stalin's speech) of their country began to ruin even during the Khrush-Jewish period. Under him, all the trash serving the Nazis was rehabilitated. Well, then downhill. The president pledges and almost kisses the frankly corrupt Russophobic Alekseev, pleads guilty for Katyn (generally bullshit), so what are we surprised at?
But, at the same time, we demand from others not to rewrite history, we sign petitions at the UN against the revival of Nazism, which everyone does not care about. How are we better than them? Before you demand something from others, put things in order. Modern youth do not know who Gastello, Kosmodemyanskaya, Sailors, and the heroes of the pioneers are completely forgotten. On May 9, the Mausoleum is shamefully draped, they are inviting some mummified, fake front-line soldiers who every year have more stars and shoulder straps and there is no place to hang any awards.
It's disgusting to look at all this!

[210ox]

So it turns out that the descendants of Kolchak, the carriers of the ideas of liberalism are now on horseback.

[ltc35]

They will not be on horseback as long as the people's memory is alive. My great-grandfather, a red partisan, told me about the atrocities of the Kolchakites, and it was a great revelation for me to find out that someone was trying to make this thug a national hero. And as long as I live, I will tell the truth to my children and grandchildren. The Czechs, by the way, also pretty "frolicked" here in Siberia. But they are far from Kolchak!

[ssergey1978]

Where do you have it in Siberia? And in Siberia we have a monument (pictured) Kolvakovsky kvass (the best kvass) Kolchakovskoe beer. I lived in Irkutsk for 40 years, I have never heard such nonsense about which you speak.

[Moskovit]

Poor knowledge of the history of the native land does not cancel Kolchak’s crimes. Will you drink Kolchak beer, remember about the shot Siberians. You're kind of like a Siberian.

[ssergey1978]

The great crimes that the communists committed were not made by anyone.

[nickname7]

Communist crimes

The communists did not commit crimes, they are only a party to the conflict in the civil war.
Sextants dissidents are descendants of the collaborators, created a false religion.

[Chieftain]

do not argue with them they have a black and white format of consciousness Stalin is good because they took Berlin and then Gagarin! they don’t understand that if the white army won, grandparents and teachers at school would only talk about the atrocities of the red bandits

[Russian jacket]

It is a historical fact that the power of the Bolsheviks in Siberia was not supported at first. As Lenin even put it, "Soviet power in Irkutsk has fallen." Kolchak was supported by both Siberians and Transbaikalians at first. But won't you tell me why he lost this support and, by and large, the partisans of Siberia and Transbaikalia fought against Kolchak without Bolshevik agitation? They were angry with the management of the "ruler of Omsk." And the Bolsheviks then took advantage of this, pulling the Siberians and Transbaikalians to their side. But not all and not all at once. Have you not heard in what year the so-called FER became part of the RSFSR?

[ltc35]

The fact of the matter is that Kolchak turned all against himself atrocities. The far non-politicized Siberians supported the Bolsheviks not from ideology, but based on the deeds of Kolchak, Czechs and other groups, who were abundant here at that time.

[nov_tech.vrn]

well, not the fact that you would have been allowed further than the janitor’s room, a fifty-fifty in your hands, a glass of vodka for your work and “go out”

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

And what other Absolute Categories are there besides Good and Evil? Share your knowledge, Chieftain. The Creator of the Universe and for you, among other things, said: "Let your words be yes -" yes "and no -" no ", everything else - from the evil one (not literally, the meaning is 100% true - E.V.) ". A wife or girlfriend cannot "slightly" change you, a friend cannot "slightly" betray, a debtor cannot "a little" forget to pay you back a debt ... Rubbish-man - he "and in Africa" ​​rubbish- man.
Kolchak since 1915 worked for British intelligence. And the oath in RI was not given "abstract", but very concrete, with an oath on the Gospel. Who is he after that, only after THIS? And who would be interested in his role in undermining the battleship "Empress Maria", on which he held his flag, being the commander of the Black Sea Fleet. There is work for modern "geographers" and "amateur historians" ...
This "ordinary mongrel" put his friends-interventionists, his ... girlfriend, his henchmen on chairs and gave the go-ahead to shoot the "red". If you, Chieftain, are put on a chair in that "box", then you, perhaps, would have smiled approvingly at the "admiral". But if you are e t about ..... put-would be against the wall, it is not a fact that you would like to obsequiously smile at this addict before his death.
The Reds won because the TRUTH was on their side. The commenter said? Yes, but Metropolitan Benjamin (Fedchenkov) also said so in his time. Although he served during the Civil War in the army of "whites". And he is not alone.
What state "rules" in modern Russia - such are its "heroes". It has long been known: "Tell me, who is your friend ..." Where is it easier to imagine the notorious Dimon during the Civil War? In the partisan detachment of the "Reds" or in the Omsk tavern at the "Whites"? What place would you prefer?

[New Year day]

Quote: Moskovit

Poor knowledge of the history of the native land does not cancel Kolchak’s crimes.

I need to know the story, I agree.
For the first winter of 20-21, 96 thousand people out of 800 thousand of the Crimean population were shot in the Crimea. The slaughter lasted for months. On November 28, Izvestia of the Provisional Sevastopol Revolutionary Committee published the first list of executed persons - 1634 people, on November 30 the second list - 1202 people. Over a week, more than 8000 people were shot by Bela Kun in Sevastopol alone, and such executions took place throughout Crimea, machine guns worked day and night. Rosalia Zemlyachka hosted in the Crimea so that the Black Sea was red with blood. How many barges full of people just drowned in the sea?
The official representative of the People’s Commissariat in Crimea M. Sultan-Galiev wrote:
“... among the executed there were a lot of working elements and people left from Wrangel with a sincere and firm decision to honestly serve the Soviet regime. Particularly great illegibility in this regard was shown by local emergency agencies. There is almost no family wherever anyone suffers from these executions: one has his father shot, this one has a brother, the third has a son, etc. Crimea at that time was like one large concentration camp, a prototype of the future Gulag in the size of one peninsula ... "
The atrocities were on both sides.

[Moskovit]

This only confirms the thesis that the wind creates a storm. The centuries-old oppression and disregard of the ruling classes of their own people has led to a world-wide tragedy.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Moskovit (Alexey)
The centuries-old oppression and disregard of the ruling classes of their own people has led to a world-wide tragedy.

Alexey Reading the comments on the Civil War, you understand how strongly our society is divided and how strong the contradictions are between, let's say, "white" and "red". The temporary victory of the conventionally "whites" in 1991 brought another split in society.
But the worst thing is that among all this "white-liberal" fraternity there are only total traitors and Russophobes. Take a look at our liberal get-together. There is nowhere to put brands. And they are either in power or around it, the so-called bohemian get-together, all these secularists and other abomination.
For example, looking at modern bohemia, I understand why they were shot in civilian clothes, hung and drowned, because now I would do the same. All these backsliders sat on the necks of the people and at the same time they hate this very people, considering it subhuman. So why are you surprised "gentlemen" are good that people hate you just as fiercely?

[nickname7]

liberal party

Worrying about the victims, they mean their own people, the collaborators and those who fought against the authorities, another population, they do not mean the victims. As an indicator, the events of Maidan in the year 14, the liberals morally (and sent money) sided with the Nazis and rejoiced at the destruction of pro-Russian forces.

[Looking for]

Stop lying, what do you catch using ordinary lies? Then explain how the representative of the People’s Commissariat could use the expression -GULAG.appeared dozens of years later. Your quote is LOW FALSE. Which came out from under the pen of a liberalist and s80- [

[Nagaibak]

Silvestr "During the first winter of 20-21, 96 thousand people out of 800 thousand of the Crimean population were shot in Crimea. The slaughter lasted for months."
Why were they shot there for years.))) Then you start to understand and it turns out not 100 thousand, but 20 thousand. Or maybe even less. "Document No. 1. A copy of part of the report of a former member of the collegium of the People's Commissariat of Nationalities Sultan-Galiev addressed to Stalin on April 14, 1921. People's Commissar for Nationalities Comrade Stalin. A copy in the Central Committee of the RCP (b).
On the situation in Crimea <..>
The abnormal state of the party organization in Crimea was reflected in the state of Soviet work. But in the development of Soviet work, in addition to this reason, there were other specific conditions that created the abnormality of its formulation.
The first and very big mistake in this regard was the too widespread use of the Red Terror in Crimea. According to the Crimean workers themselves, the number of executed Wrangel officers in the whole Crimea reaches from 20 to 25 thousand. They point out that in Simferopol alone, up to 12 were shot. Popular rumor exalts this figure for the entire Crimea to 000. "And then you see, 70 thousand are also an exaggeration. Of course, every life is valuable. And even if from 000 to 20 thousand were shot ( which most likely was) people are in any case a pity .... only to lie, then why?

[remal]

The monument was erected by local monarchists, terry anti-Westerners. During the civil war there was both white and red terror.

[Sneaky Urus]

You have a poor knowledge of history, as well as the author of the article.

[vladimirZ]

Where do you have it in Siberia? And in Siberia we have a monument (pictured) Kolvakovsky kvass (the best kvass) Kolchakovskoe beer. I lived in Irkutsk for 40 years, I have never heard such nonsense about which you speak. - ssergey1978 (Sergey)

You don’t know the history of your city and region!
I live near Irkutsk, studied at the university of Irkutsk. Recall the Kalandarashvili street in Irkutsk, one of the organizers of the Red partisan movement in Eastern Siberia? And the Siberian Partisan Street, named after the partisan detachments led by Kalandarishvili, Burlov, Zverev, Gryaznov, Shiryamov, and the streets themselves, named after these people. Streets of A. Shiryamov, V. Litvinov, S. Lazo, G. Rzhanov, head of the Irkutsk emergency commission M. Trilisser, commanders of the 30th division I. Gryaznov and A. Lapin. The streets of July 3, Krasnogvardeiskaya, Red Uprising, Red Magyars were named after the revolutionary events of 1917 and the suppression of the White Guard rebellion.
In memory of the restoration of the power of the Soviets, street fighting and the liberation of the city from Kolchak in 1919–1920, the streets of the December Events, the Workers Headquarters, the 5th Army, and the 30th Division appeared.
A monument to the heroes of the Civil War - the fighters for Soviet power, the red partisans in front of the main entrance to TsPKO - did not notice the 10-meter monument on the Mount of Jerusalem?
And in other old cities of the Irkutsk region, monuments and streets in honor of the red partisans: Usolye-Sibirsky, Kirensk, etc. do not remind you of anything?
The fate of people who have forgotten and do not know the history of their country, region and who do not know how to think analytically about current political events will be sad. It should be a shame when living in Irkutsk not to know the history of your city and its streets.

[ssergey1978]

There is no shame, but you are not ashamed that the monument to Lenin on the street of the same name is assembled from destroyed tombstones. Come and honor the names of the long-dead in which your Bolsheviks even gravestones selected. Brewer with her burial and recall, Alcoholic head of Grigory Kochkin and his shot pregnant girlfriend.

[vladimirZ]

"... a monument to Lenin on the street of the same name is assembled from destroyed tombstones. Come and honor the names of the long-dead from whom your bolshiviks even took away their tombstones. To the pivavarikha from her burial and remind you, The head in alcohol ... - ssergey1978 (Sergey)

Collected liberal bourgeois nonsense, and you are trying to prove something. In the 30s, the same "fifth column", as now in power who committed the state anti-socialist coup of 1991, tried to seize power, but they were not given the benefit - they promptly exposed all Trotsky, Enukidze, Tukhachevsky and their lower followers who arrange the seizure of power and change the course of the country's development.
The benefit of I.V. Stalin and his supporters were in power and cleared the state of the most dangerous enemies of the people and Soviet power, otherwise the scenario of the collapse of 1991 would have taken place even then with the mass death of the people and the capture of the country under a European imperialist colony led by fascist Germany, the United States and Japan.
Today, against the background of the current collapse of Russia and the former Soviet republics, which have essentially turned into raw material colonies of the West, the United States and China, with the destruction of the greatest industrial potential of the socialist economy, it is most clearly seen what the then "enemies of the people" - the opponents of the Stalinist development of the country - carried us. And therefore, their cleansing - unfortunately, with the inevitable percentage of deaths of slandered enemies and people not involved in this hostile camp - is politically justified and inevitable.
Any state, and even more so reflecting the interests of the majority of the people, has the right to protection, in the name of the life and prosperity of tens and hundreds of millions of people, forcing and using the apparatus of violence for the enemies of this state and people, up to the application of capital punishment. This is an axiom of the life of the state and a large community of people united in a people.

[ssergey1978]

I did not begin to read your nonsense. Where did you see the bullshit? In what word? Or damn you the main thing in a puddle?

[vladimirZ]

Where did you see the bullshit? In what word? Or damn you the main thing in a puddle? -
ssergey1978 (Sergey)

In everything. In all your "information". You don’t know history and don’t know how to objectively analyze political events, there are no references to well-reasoned facts - only liberal myths of Gorbachev-Yakovlev's "perestroika". Plus the lack of a culture of communication and elementary impoliteness towards opponents, largely due to the lack of proper education and low level of upbringing.

[ssergey1978]

Tough exposer! I look you Irkutsk only seen in the pictures. I understand who you are. Once again, for those who are in the tank (a fermenting patriot), go to the Lenin monument on Lenin street in Irkutsk and see that it is made of tombstones (names and years of life are looked through) for the rest there is infa in the internet (if there were an Irkutsk citizen something like that they would know her) And once again in Siberia they love Kolchak, but the Sverdlov Cossacks call pig pigs.

[vladimirZ]

And once again in Siberia they love Kolchak, but the Sverdlov Cossacks call pig’s tricks. -
ssergey1978 (Sergey)

Ha ha ha. Whistleblower of "gravestone monuments". "Kolchak is loved" by the crushers - the descendants of those who kept the people in serf slavery and enriched themselves through its exploitation, and still dreaming of the return of those orders.
Absolutely the majority of people hate Kolchak and similar punishers as an executioner and a hangman of the people! Forever, he will remain so in history!

[ssergey1978]

You are not an Irkutian, not even a Siberian, why are you paid these fiction about studying and living in Irkutsk? or are you ideological?

[vladimirZ]

You are not an Irkutian, not even a Siberian, why are you paid these fiction about studying and living in Irkutsk? or are you ideological? - ssergey1978 (Sergey)

Ha ha ha You can immediately see your ignorance and inability to conduct a reasoned polemic by throwing on the opponent’s personality.
I will satisfy your curiosity. A native Siberian who lived most of his life in Angarsk. He graduated from the full-time faculty of IPI, and in absentia the faculty of Narkhoz, if you are a 40-year-old Irkutsk citizen, as you write, you should know these largest universities of Irkutsk. And 5 years living in Irkutsk, in the campus of the Polytechnic. As for ideology, yes, a communist based on firmly formed convictions back in Soviet times, and who have never changed communist ideology ever since. Not like some shifters of traitors, now in power and reviving the bourgeois capitalist system in our country, in fact an authoritarian dictatorship of personal power, turning the once-second world industrial power into a raw material colony of other states, and condemning a large part of the people to miserable and impoverished living.

[ssergey1978]

What a haha, I myself graduated from IrGTU (IPI) and that you don’t remember how you doused Stella Sverdlov with paint and ring wire? What you wrote about the Polytechnic and Narxoz can be found on the Internet.

[vladimirZ]

I myself graduated from ISTU (IPI) and that you do not remember how you doused Stella Sverdlov with paint and ringlets with wire? What you wrote about the Polytechnic and Narxoz can be found on the Internet .- ssergey1978 (Sergey)

Ha ha ha. So we are from the same university ?! True, in my time, I graduated from the Faculty of Mechanics already in 1974, no normal person could even think of "pouring paint and wire into Sverdlov's stella" - education and upbringing did not allow, - everyone understood that only thanks to the Bolshevik Party, the children of working people could receive free higher education, and become engineers, scientists, doctors.
True, times have now changed, and some of my former classmates have changed their once proletarian concept of justice for the whole people to a "special feeding trough", which should automatically be provided to him due to his high position and what they consider to be "unique experience" of production work. But this is not a problem, the awareness of one's usual, like everyone else's, people's position will inevitably come with the loss of high positions.
Well, and your stubborn speculation that "about the Polytechnic and the National Economy, you can get information on the Internet", etc. rubbish can only cause laughter. Measure others by yourself?

[ssergey1978]

And yes, go to the Internet resource though 38 there was an article by an Irkutsk citizen about Kolchak. People are going to discuss so you do not beloved Kolchak and in Irkutsk. Interview taken from a Muscovite.

[Oberst_71]

It is the executioner. Yes

[ssergey1978]

And I saw a type of clever fellow countryman. You come to the monument and look at the stone. The names are still visible from whose graves they took the tombstones. Maybe the head of Kochkin in the museum of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Irkutsk nonsense? Or maybe you are not an Irkutsk citizen?

[mmaxx]

It is somehow not noticeable on this monument of inscriptions ... Every granite there is matched with the same color. polished.
Tombstones in old cemeteries were made simply of local stone. There is no granite. Where was it to be taken until the 17th year?

[ssergey1978]

Damn, what stubborn you are, well, you can’t believe my eyes, there is infa in the internet, maybe even on Wikipedia, maybe with a photo. Stop smart

[mmaxx]

And see for yourself ??

[ssergey1978]

At school, they drove to this monument and took note of these inscriptions.

[user]

infa is on the internet maybe even on Wikipedia

Well, if on Wikipedia, then we, of course, need a sivolap to know our stupidity.

[ssergey1978]

So admit it already. You say you won’t return, you say look, don’t look. The diagnosis is true Dullness. It’s very good that you yourself understand this.

[ssergey1978]

What does the plunder of graves have to do with protecting the state from some kind of columns?

[ssergey1978]

I glimpsed your comets, you live on the Internet, you are an expert in all fields, especially in politics. Searfully read your comments of cosmic stupidity.

[Russian jacket]

Sorry, but after ISTU to write with such errors is a shame ....

[ssergey1978]

I write on the phone while doing other things, I don’t pay anyone for posts, unlike you?

[ssergey1978]

And yet that they would know in Irgt at the AT did not teach Russian.

[vladimirZ]

And yet that they would know in Irgt at the AT did not teach Russian. - ssergey1978 (Sergey)

Ha ha ha And such a concept as the compulsory nature of a common culture and elementary literacy for a person who has a higher education, albeit a technical one, did not occur to you? Even if you have the education of a mechanical engineer in automobile transport (AT).

[Russian jacket]

They don’t pay me the same thing. But if you hooked on this topic, I can say that the cap is on the thief ... At the Irkutsk Polytechnic Institute, and not at the proudly named technical university, they taught Russian very well in the MAHP specialty. In the first year. He graduated from the Polytechnic in 1994.

[ssergey1978]

And here is a thief with a hat? there was no Russian at AT.

[Russian jacket]

I explain for the gifted. I'm talking about your statement about payment. Or do you have the notion that this proverb says nothing? Oh yes, there was no Russian at AT

[Russian jacket]

Mistaken in the word. Your statement.

[ssergey1978]

I ask again, obviously not gifted: what is the payment? Are you a drunk galleries? Alcohol Evil. And have a snack otherwise old age awaits you like that of a Taurus supposedly from Angarsk. Do not write any more I will not answer. And there was your post about the fact that I live either not in Siberia, or not in Russia, or in Russia but not in Siberia, or whether in Siberia but not in Russia it is shorter than Tin.

[Russian jacket]

Post indicate. So that was evidence and not chatter. By the way, I do not drink. You confuse me with someone. And when you write, check. Or express your thoughts more clearly. What are your words?
[quote = ssergey1978] I write on the phone while doing other things, I don’t pay anyone for posts, unlike you?

[Karen]

Quote: Russian quilted jacket

in the specialty MAHP, they taught Russian perfectly. In the first year.

What, it was supposed that in schools it was bad with teaching OY, that they introduced the subject at the institute?

[Russian jacket]

And now the above is an indicator that literacy is at the cosmic level.
Karen. Our first year was Russian, but the number of hours was insignificant. Teachers hammered into the heads of students that the engineer’s speech, and his ability to correctly and error-free documentation is the guarantee that he will be understood correctly.
PS my mother at the Irkutsk Polytechnic University conducted sopromat. She is now 80, but students come to her for consultations. She is terrified of literacy and the inability to understand the first time what this character needs. Therefore, it works only with those who can clearly express their thoughts. And there are few frightening ones.

[Karen]

It was customary to believe that foreign language was poorly taught at school, we started as if from scratch ... But in physics - like, you know the formulas, but we just translate the school course into integral thinking ...

[Russian jacket]

So it was. Inyaz from scratch, the rest along the path of complication.

[ssergey1978]

Tatyana Yakovlevna?

[Russian jacket]

If about sopromat then Nadezhda Nikitichna. But she worked mainly in the Usolsky branch.

[Sadam]

When 15 years ago, leaving the cinema after a movie about Kolchak, two people walked in front of me and I accidentally heard "here you see Vasya Kolchak was a positive hero and everything that we were taught at school was nonsense, and after a while the conjuncture will change and he will again become a tyrant. ...))) .... the couple here just crashed into the memory
so I look at this cyclicality, how are you muzzling a friend in the face ..... it's still right to know YOUR story from different angles. misuse history for politics and propaganda

[mmaxx]

It is not clear why we are still continuing the civil war. With people who, after the civilian side of Hitler, everything is clear. Kolchak may be lucky. Or maybe he would not go with Hitler. In Siberia everyone was atrocious. Who was Bolshevik or white here is generally incomprehensible. The same Kalandarishvili was just a gangster. What shisha did he live in the north of the Irkutsk province and feed a bunch of people? Would not have beaten him white, would have beaten red. Then Nestor would be a white bandit. In general, in Siberia, on a vast territory and almost not populated, a bloody mess reigned. Kolchakism was the last straw, after which the Bolsheviks could only win.
I think now we just need to stop and not denying the past to look to the future. The past was what it was. It so happened that Kolchak did a lot before becoming the supreme ruler. The fact that someone gave him a lot of money is somehow not very confirmed. Otherwise, there would be at least used cartridges in his troops. By a strange coincidence, his fate is largely connected with Irkutsk. Here he stayed. Let the monument stand. As a monument to our civil war. And how a controversial person embodies our civil war. The monument stands at the alleged location of the execution.

[user]

I think now we just need to stop and not denying the past to look to the future. The past was what it was.

And what is the past like?
Here near Kansk, very close by, there is a museum. So there is a torture well. A man was tied to his legs and dipped into the water with his head. They pulled it out and waited for it to cover with an ice crust. This is not Europe for you. Evenkia is nearby and therefore the cold weather is right.
They came up with a sort of entertainment just at Kolchak.

Further write about the heroic accomplishments of Kolchak or is it clear?

[mmaxx]

And such a past, too. And we must talk about everything. That there was no desire to repeat. And so that those in power know what happens. 9 grams and all.

[user]

I lived in Irkutsk for 40 years, I have never heard such nonsense about which you speak.

Yes, you are not only in Siberia, you live in another country.

[ssergey1978]

Could you decipher your opus? Is this what?

[ssergey1978]

adit? DO YOU KNOW THIS?

[Sugar Honeyovich]

The saying "How did Mamai went" in Siberia had the option: "How did Kolchak go".

[Fitter65]

Quote: vladimirZ

Here in Siberia, until the end of the 80s, according to the stories of grandfathers and grandmothers, Kolchak’s atrocities were remembered.

In our childhood, the 70s of the Novosibirsk region, the nickname "Kolchak" was considered very shameful, about like a Vlasovite, if not worse ...

[Moskovit]

Yes, and in the 80s, too. This hatred has been rooted in genes. Not just like that

[denplot]

Yes it is. Great-grandfather from the first world came home. A year later, the mobilization of Kolchak, several hundred men from the surrounding villages were driven into his village. Part decided to run. They ran, jumped into the river, swam and ran to the forest. Kolchak from the coast of machine guns, and on the approach to the forest Cossacks with sabers. He said: About 200 people ran us, and six reached the forest, the rest died. Great-grandfather and the rest who survived went to the partisans.

[sailor roman]

I was a boy, but I remembered well the stories of my grandfather Vincent and neighbor Kar Palych about atrocities personally committed by Kolchak, they were forced to attend mass executions of innocent people, and then bury them in ditches. My grandfather witnessed the execution of hundreds of officers in the village of Borovoe right near the temple.

[mmaxx]

???? Did Kolchak shoot officers ??

[ssergey1978]

Drunk then what difference does it make if they only listen.

[Dmitry Potapov]

The flag was long before Vlasovtsev, Yudnich and dr. They shot Kolchak, they did it right, we have all the power how to shoot him (except for the GDP he is one good) the author is right the current liberals and White Guards are the same thing.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Dead Day

we live with the flag, under which the Vlasov fought. And Yudenich and Wrangel with Denikin, no longer know how to lick yet.

We live under the historical state flag of Russia, famous HUNDREDS:

Flag of the Moscow Tsar 1693 g

Under him fought and died for Russia tens of millions of Russian soldiers, including today.

Naturally, this banner was state and the last lawful Russian state (1918), which served wholeheartedly patriots of Russia , veteran heroes of the order bearers of the Second World War Denikin, Wrangel, Kolchak, Kappel, Wojciechowski, etc., etc.

Their purpose is clearly indicated in the appeal of the head of Russia A.V. Kolchak:

create conditions for a peaceful and calm life in Russia, when carbonate The Supreme Power of the Supreme Ruler and the Supreme Commander-in-Chief could convey the fate of the State into the hands of the peopleby leaving him to arrange a public administration of their own accord, the will of a free, independent people, worthy to take its rightful place among the Great States "

и

My Government has told you that we consider it fair and necessary togive all the land to the working people.

The Bolsheviks deprived the people of Russia deprived of this opportunity freedom elections, freedom of speech, opinion, conscience, organization, assembly, deprived of the right to dispose of the land and the fruits of labor on it.

As prophetically said Alexander Vasilievich:

the Bolsheviks will come and take your property from you into the commune, and they will make you workers, slaves of the commissars - you will rebel yourself, but then you will have neither guns, nor guns, nor machine guns. "

The author’s absurd attempts to say about the patriot of Russia with opinions ... traitors to the Czechs and enemies of the Bolsheviks.

red "heroes" - the winners "of Kolchak: all these uborevichi, yakirs, crusts. bluchers and pr tukhachevsie - turned out to sentences of the HCVF of the USSRspies traitors, terrorists, lecherous а Commander Army Bronstein -...Gestapo agent!

Bolsheviks 5 million km2 stolen from Russia (from1918 to 1940) and led to the current borders of the 17th century, destroying русские Odessa, Nikolaev, etc., turning them into ....Mykolaivy (pah, what an abomination!), and the people were led to the Russian cross.

Under the Russian State of Kolchak, such and IN MIND was not!

[ssergey1978]

I subscribe to your every word.

[ssergey1978]

So you ruthless borun?

[Alexander Suvorov]

Olgovich (Andrey)
WOW

And what kind of beast is this ?!

veteran heroes of the Order Bearers of the Second World War Denikin, Wrangel, Kolchak,
which the patriots of Russia served selflessly

Naturally "heroes" and "patriots" ... The first sold out first to the Anglo-Franks, then to the Americans, the second Anglo-French henchman, the third in general gave an oath to the small-shaven ... But what, really "heroes" just need to clarify whose country!

The Bolsheviks deprived the people of Russia of this opportunity, deprived of the freedom of elections, freedom of speech, opinion, conscience, organization, assembly, deprived of the right to dispose of the land and the fruits of labor on it.

Again in ward number 6 doctors forgot to give injections ...

The Bolsheviks stole 5 million km2 from Russia (from 1918 to 1940) and led to the present borders of the 17th century, destroying the Russian Odessa, Nikolaev, etc., turning them into .... Mykolaivy (ugh, what an abomination!), And the people led to the Russian Cross .

Well, for sure, they forgot to put on a straitjacket.

Under the Russian State of Kolchak, there was no such thing in MIND!

Well, yes, Kolchak sold part of the "state" to the White Czechs, part to the French, and gold is generally not clear to anyone, either the Japanese or the Americans ... A true "hiroi" and "patriot" ...

[Varyag_0711]

Alexander Suvorov (Alexander Suvorov)
WOW
And what kind of beast is this ?!

Alexander, my respect! It is customary for the mentally ill to call the WWI, they decipher it like "the second patriotic war", although it was never such, but was precisely imperialist. But, as you correctly pointed out, ward # 6 has its own rules.
I’m wondering if they think the war is the second patriotic, so why did the soldiers of this “patriotic” war already in 1915-16 begin to fraternize with the enemy en masse, and then defect en masse (with regiments and even divisions) from the front. They probably never realized that they fought like "for the fatherland"? But rather, the opposite is true, in 1914 they just believed that they were fighting for their fatherland, but they very quickly realized that they were not fighting for any country, but they lay down their lives in hundreds of thousands for the fact that the miserable stratum of the rich, in A chapter led by a non-king could grow rich in their lives.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Quote: Varyag_0711

Alexander Suvorov (Alexander Suvorov)
WOW
And what kind of beast is this ?!

Alexander, my respect! It is customary for the mentally ill to call the WWI, they decipher it like "the second patriotic war", although it was never such, but was precisely imperialist. But, as you correctly pointed out, ward # 6 has its own rules.
I’m wondering if they think the war is the second patriotic, so why did the soldiers of this “patriotic” war already in 1915-16 begin to fraternize with the enemy en masse, and then defect en masse (with regiments and even divisions) from the front. They probably never realized that they fought like "for the fatherland"? But rather, the opposite is true, in 1914 they just believed that they were fighting for their fatherland, but they very quickly realized that they were not fighting for any country, but they lay down their lives in hundreds of thousands for the fact that the miserable stratum of the rich, in A chapter led by a non-king could grow rich in their lives.

Not in 15-16, but in 17, after the betrayal of the Bolsheviks. It doesn’t matter what they believed in when they went to war, but it’s important that you and your kind succumb to hostile pro-gang raid on their graves.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Ezekiel 25-17 (Andrew)
No matter what they believed in when they went to war

It may not matter to you, but it was very important to my great-grandfather.

but it’s important that you and your kind, succumbing to a hostile pro-gang, are vomiting at their graves.

On whose graves do I spit? For example, I feel sorry for the millions of ineptly ruined Russian lives thrown by the tsar into the furnace of World War II to please the rich who want to warm their hands in a world fire.
If you mean the graves of Kolchak, Krasnov, skin, Denikin, Wrangel, Mannerheim and the like, then YES, I spit on their graves !!! The land of these villains and traitors is glassy.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Do not wish to others that you would not wish to yourself and your loved ones: you have wished. Calvary is waiting ...

[Serg koma]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

after the betrayal of the Bolsheviks.

The tsar "threw" the tsarevich "otmazal", threw the crown to Mikhail, who refused it (“Alekseev came with the latest news from Rodzianko. to sign him such disgusting! "- Nikolay 6), The oath is not valid, The state (as such) is "over"and the Bolsheviks are to blame. Can you imagine how many parties were in Russia at the beginning of 1917? What goals did these parties set for themselves, what methods did they achieve their goals?
Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich - the first of the members of the imperial family, violated the oath to the tsar and said that he personally and the military unit entrusted to him went over to the side of the State Duma and were happy about the revolution!
And you repeat like a mantra - "Bolsheviks, Bolsheviks ...", at least read the wiki to begin with.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

The Bolsheviks are more guilty than others. At the same time, no one denies that the Tsar was weak. That the war went unsuccessfully, that the same cadets and other shushara from the Duma tore the blanket for themselves. On the conscience of the Bolsheviks, if they had a bloody Civil War at all and millions of people whom Russia lost as a result of the Red Terror, famine and immigration. Russia in the 20th century has experienced two demographic catastrophes. One of them is purely the result of the Bolshevik coup. How great it will turn out. Maidan is a coup for some, but a revolution for others? Kolchak is guilty of only one thing: he lost, Russia lost. And from the century like this: "... Woe to the vanquished ..." PS About the Maidan this is an example.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

And what kind of beast is this ?!

This is the "beast" in which the enemy did not even reach the Russian regions proper, and the losses were less than the Ang-Franks.

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Naturally, "heroes" and "patriots" ... The first sold out first to the Anglo-Franks, then to the Americans, the second Anglo-French henchman, the third generally gave an oath to the small-shaven ...

To you, the Representative of the community of Napoleons and the Macedonian: no one recognized them as such.

But YOUR "heroes" : Chief Commander (!) Of the Red Army bracket recognized AGENT OF THE GESTAPO (German intelligence since 1921), and Marshal Tukhachevsky-spy, fascist and saboteur transmitting the STRATEGIC plans of the USSR of Germany, Uborevich-fascist, yakirspy and bastard and so forth recognized VKVS USSR.

The Prosecutor General of the USSR on YOUR heroes (the pre-ministry (!), People's commissars, marshals and the Central Committee, etc.) said:

“Scum, smelly, dung, a stinking pile of garbage, filthy dogs, damned reptile.
scorched crooks, vile creatures, crooks, bandits, arrogant, despicable adventurers "

He didn’t say such a thing about any Hero of the Russian State!

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Again in the ward number 6, doctors forgot to give injections ...

I sympathize But ... what are you ... ME complaining about?
I can only build an embolism for you. There is the administration of your institution - there and complain about your sister

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Well, yes, Kolchak sold part of the "state" to the White Czechs,

"United and Indivisible Russia"-Deviz of the Russian State and its purpose and business.

Your affairs: theft from Russia 5 million km2 (Mykolaiv, Almaty, etc. instead of Nikolai, Faithful, etc.), the borders of Russia of the 17th century and the dying Russian people by 1991.

Kill yourself these FACTS on the forehead

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Since when pskov ceased to be a Russian region?

Since when have you been here the basics to educate committed?

Hack on the forehead: Pskov, Little Russia was surrendered to the German occupiers NOT by Russia, but already the so-called "SNK". which has NO relation to Russia didn't have : But the people never chose these traitors and didn’t entrust them with anything.

It turns out that you even have a historical foundation 23 February... you don’t know (battles near Pskov and Narva (surrender of Pskov 1918))

You better not roll another liter on a holiday, but look into the textbook. Shame ....

[Alexander Suvorov]

Olgovich (Andrey)
Hack it on your forehead: Pskov region, Little Russia was handed over to the German invaders NOT by Russia, but already by the so-called. "SNK". which had nothing to do with Russia

It’s you who do yourself notices and a liar! You can even hack, BUT:

Results of the 1915 campaign of the year
The 1915 campaign was difficult for the Russian army. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers and officers were killed, wounded and taken prisoner. The Russian army left vast territories: Galicia, Bukovina, Poland, part of the Baltic states, Belarus.

However, the Austro-Germans failed to fulfill the main task of defeating the Russian army and withdrawing Russia from the war [64]. The Russian army, although it suffered heavy losses, escaped encirclement and retained combat effectiveness. The German command, in turn, considered that the Russian army suffered heavy losses and was no longer capable of active action. In the fall, the German command begins to transfer troops from East to West, planning to deliver a decisive blow to France and end the war. On the Eastern Front, a positional lull was established. A German occupation administration was created on the occupied Russian territory.

Shame ....

No doubt you disgrace and shame are ...

[nickname7]

It would seem that the events are documented by day, why not study them? AND olgovich denies reality, tin, that such chyudiki led RI.

That such as olgovich, the story sent to the trash, there is nothing surprising, they are not trained. The tsarist management elite decomposed, corrupted and ceased to be functional; it was demolished by a historical stream.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Olgovich

"United and Indivisible Russia" is the motto of the Russian State and its purpose and cause.

Your affairs: THEFT of Russia 5 million km2 (Mykolaiv, Almaty, etc. instead of Nikolay, Faithful, etc.), the borders of Russia of the 17th century and the dying Russian people by 1991.

Kill yourself these FACTS on your forehead

Well, the facts are a stubborn thing, the people of all these "heroes" of yours sent to hell, and threw out together with their masters outside the Russian state, something with the slogan "For Faith, Tsar and Fatherland" not very simple people went to fight, And For the power of the Soviets went! How is that? You will say that the bloody Cheka intimidated everyone, I wonder how you could intimidate the people who have been at war since the age of 14? Having arms and front-line experience to get scared, how is it fashionable for you now to say some "handful of Bolsheviks"? Maybe all the same, after hundreds of years, you still admit to yourself that you have become disgusting to backgammon, and the people simply sent you where you belong, though unfortunately you did not understand this and returned again ... "One and indivisible" - how pompous everything is, though some "heroes of the Russian state" were controlled by the British, others were led by the French, the third were kept on a leash by the Americans, the fourth, the fifth ... After all, the main thing is to be at the helm no matter how with whose help ... By the way, now you have the same the more "patriotic" the "patriot-monarchist" shouts and hits himself with a heel on the chest, the "Kolchakist" (I apologize for this word), the more the ears of Western masters stick out from him, it seems like a hundred years have passed and nothing has changed ...

[Varyag_0711]

Fitter65 (Alexander.) By the way, now you have the same thing, the more "patriotic" the "patriot-monarchist" screams and hits himself in the chest, the "Kolchak" (I apologize for this word), the more the ears of Western masters stick out from him, for a hundred years seems to have passed but nothing has changed ...

Alexander, bravo! Neither add nor diminish. About sticking ears you absolutely definitely noticed.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Fitter65

Well the facts are stubborn things

You have denied the facts already given robbery of the country by traitors to Russia 5 million km2?

Or Facts violent turning Russian regions into not Russians, and Russian people in Non-Russian (the so-called "Ukrainians", etc.)?

Or the borders of Russia of the 17th century, arranged 80-100 years ago by the same traitors?

No again?
What are you talking about then?

Quote: Fitter65

And for the power of the Soviets went!

Moody FALSE: in the only popular elections of the US, the people of the Bolshevik ambassador are very far away, yes.

And the people didn’t have more power elections: they were afraid of your elections before animal fear, screeching, paranoia and night sweat all 70 years: they knew that they would throw on

Quote: Fitter65

Say the bloody Cheka frightened everyone, I wonder how it was possible to intimidate the people who fought since the age of 14?

People he front not afraid yes but yours families they threatened with all the punishments for desertion: they shot the deserters, took away property, land and the like. They introduced a circle of bail ..

... With such a setting, you would "God king "sang with a dance, yes ..

Quote: Fitter65

Maybe all the same, after hundreds of years, you still admit to yourself that you became nasty backgammon, and the people just sent you there.

Who gave you the right to people speak?

The people at the ELECTIONS say, and there he is - see. higher.
Less than 5% of the population took part in the GV, more than 50% took part in the elections. Got it, no?

Quote: Fitter65

"Single and indivisible" - how pompous everything is, although some "heroes of the Russian state" were controlled by the British, others were led by the French, others were kept on a leash by the Americans, the fourth, the fifth ... After all, the main thing is to be at the helm, no matter how and whose help ...

This is BUSINESS, not words.
But YOUR work done by yours is this: never, under any rulers, Russia has not suffered such a terrible defeat as with YOU:

-in territories (millions km2-cm. borders of the Russian Federation)

-in people (tens of millions of victims hunger, executions, links and tens of millions abroad)

-in culture (tens of thousands blown up looted, burned monuments to Russian heroes, Russian culture, Russian glory, Russian weapons; millions of burnt books, icons, etc., etc., the barbarians and vandals of ancient Rome simply rest ...


These are just FACTS. Remember them.

[Deniska999]

As a matter of fact, for all the protracted disputes of the supporters of white and red. It is impossible to calculate alternative gains or losses from White’s victory. This scenario did not happen and it is impossible to find out how it would be. Therefore, we must build on realities and consider historical events with an open mind and without emotions. Therefore, there is nothing to wrestle yourself and others with nerves.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Deniska999

It is impossible to calculate alternative gains or losses from White’s victory. This scenario did not happen and it is impossible to find out how it would be. Therefore it is necessary build on realities and consider historical events with an open mind and without emotion.

Exclusively ABOUT REALITIES and say: white built, for a thousand years the largest country in the world with the second fastest growing in the world unique people , unique culture and achievements. It is a fact

Reds built disaster of the country and people 1991 year. And this is also a fact.

Therefore:

Quote: Deniska999

nothing to ruffle yourself and others nerves

[Deniska999]

Well, if this unique state fell apart so easily, it means that there were some flaws there. And we do not know how it would exist further. Perhaps, by, say, 1950, he would have died. Crying about the past is stupid.
And you will not prove anything to others, just as they are to you. A generation will change, then something will be decided.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Deniska999

Well, if this unique state fell apart so easily, it means that there were some flaws there.

It fought for itself for 5 years in the hot war of 1917-1922 and even tens of years after it: hundreds of thousands of executed and millions of those exiled, proof of this

Quote: Deniska999

And we do not know how it would exist further. Perhaps, by, say, 1950, he would have died.

It survived and survived for 1 years, and that’s the term, you know.
And even survived, with huge losses, the hardest period since 1917: anyway, it survived and exists today.

Quote: Deniska999

And you won’t prove anything to others, just like they to you.

I was the same. You just have to read a lot, love your Motherland and its History

[Fitter65]

[quote = Olgovich] Have you refuted the facts of the robbery of the country by Russia's traitors in the amount of 5 million km2?

Or the facts of the forcible transformation of Russian regions into non-Russians, and Russian people into non-Russians (the so-called "Ukrainians", etc.)?

Or the borders of Russia of the 17th century, arranged 80-100 years ago by the same traitors? [/ Quote]
The borders of Russia began to change thanks to the CHIEF TRAITOR OF RUSSIA Nikolai Aleksandrovich Romanov !!! Who, in February 1917, abdicated the throne, from the country which he promised to take care of to develop upon accession to the throne, etc., Ypres. As a result, he plunged the country into a bloody war. IT IS A FACT. And the "heroes of Russia" who were loyal to him not only threw him so they began to trade this Russia in the Primorye, one, the north, and the other, the South, the third. This is also a fact. And what the Bolsheviks were able to collect and sew so it is all thanks to these "heroes" of yours, who, having lost in an open struggle, hid in their holes and shit at every possible opportunity.

[quote = Olgovich] The people, he was not afraid of the front, yes, but your families were threatened with all the penalties for desertion: they shot the deserters, took away property, land, etc., they introduced a circle of bail .. [/ quote]
Oh, how, a handful of Bolsheviks all over the country, look how intimidated ... And this very "intimidated" people with more terrible punishments, after some 19-20 years, were not frightened. He joined the partisans with his families, villages, and began to beat the invaders. Why's that? What prevented this people from doing this against the Cheka. By the way, your ancestors, Yudenichs, Krasnovs and other Kolchaks, this is what you have listed very much, they loved to do it, and therefore a partisan movement arose against these very "heroes of the Russian state." My great-grandfather, by the way, fought in the partisans with your Kolchakites, then he built the Opera and Ballet Theater in Novosibirsk. This is what my great-grandmother told me. But I would not have fought with your Kolchak, so probably Siberia would have remained someone's colony. I can certainly understand your animal anti-Sovietism, and the wild rejection of everything Soviet, it is now very fashionable in the circles of various tolerasts and liberals, especially when there are also nishyachki for it throw up.[Quote] Olgovich (Andrey) Who gave you the right to speak for the people? [/ Quote] My ancestors, who were flesh from flesh, blood from blood from the Russian people, they fought for their country, they built it to raise and raise children, and now I am instead of them, I am part of this people, I served and guarded the country for 32 years from different enemies. I have the right to speak because I am that part of the people that did not betray the Homeland, which did not change the oath, once having given it. I have the right to speak, because I am a CITIZEN of RUSSIA and I am proud of my country and its history, unlike various grant-eaters. And thank God I DEFENDER and CREATOR, I distinguish my people from the executioner and traitor. With what I take my leave and say that I will not answer you anymore, it hurts you are disgusting in your hatred of Russia (this is not an insult, it is a statement of fact).

[Olgovich]

Quote: Fitter65

The borders of Russia thanks to the CHIEF CHAIRMAN OF RUSSIA Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov !!

Read the COSTITUTIONS of the Ukrainian SSR, BSSR, etc. USSR 1918-1976. This ... Romanov wrote them, cut Russia to pieces?

Quote: Fitter65

We started this Russia to trade Primorye, one, the north, and the other South the third. This is also a fact.

This is a dumb FALSE.
and True, see. higher: minus from Russia 5 million km2 at YOU!

Quote: Fitter65

And it was precisely that the Bolsheviks were able to assemble and sew

They sewed Russia borders of the 17th century-in the window-take a look finally!

Quote: Fitter65

He went to the partisans in families, villages, and began to beat the invaders. Why's that?

I’ll tell you a secret: people have ALWAYS done this for THOUSAND YEARS: stood up for the Fatherland.
But when it was necessary to stand up for your "power in 91"no one got up, including and YOU

Quote: Fitter65

But he wouldn’t have fought with your cap, so probably Siberia and remained anybody’s colony

It was NOT a colony and was part of Russia and under the Russian state.
But YOURS could make it a separate state: as KFSSR and pr KSSR

Quote: Fitter65

Of course, I can understand your animal anti-Sovietism, and the wild rejection of everything Soviet, it is now very fashionable in the circles of various Tolerasts and liberalists, especially when they throw up nishtyachki for it.

incomprehensible animal anti-anti-Sovietism: all bankrupt sunk into oblivion 30 years ago

Quote: Fitter65

My ancestors, who were flesh from flesh, blood from blood from the Russian people, they fought for their country, they built it raised and raised children, who now and now I am part of this people instead, who I served for 32 years and protected the country from different enemies. Я I have the right to speak because I am that part of the people that did not betray the Homeland, which did not change the oath, once having given it. I AM

Here from the "I" and say: the PEOPLE did not give you rights!
ALL served, built and paid taxes

Quote: Fitter65

I have the right to say, because I am a CITIZEN of RUSSIA and I am proud of my country and its history, unlike various grant-eaters. And thank God the executioner and traitor of his people I distinguish from the DEFENDER and the CREATOR. With what I take my leave, and I say that I will not answer you anymore, it hurts you are disgusting in your hatred of Russia (this is not an insult, it is a statement of fact)

Those who justify the tearing of Russia to pieces since 1917 are disgusting. You justify.

[nickname7]

And the people didn’t have more power elections: they were afraid of your elections

The people from their circle elected delegates and deputies, from which the councils of deputies of workers and peasants were created. This is the power of the people. Tips are the highest possible democracy.
Kolchak or Krasnov received posts upon birth, they are from the system of masters and slaves by birth, they did not recognize the elections in principle.
The Bolsheviks did not have masters, the Bolsheviks are a people and democracy.

But YOUR work done by yours is this: never, under any rulers, Russia has not suffered such a terrible defeat as under YOU

When you, the Russian Empire generally ceased to exist, collapsed. Worse than you did no one.
And with us, the Russian Federation became the second economy.

[Olgovich]

Quote: nickname7

The people from their circle elected delegates and deputies, from which the councils of deputies of workers and peasants were created. This is the power of the people.

Name the COMPETITORS on your so-called. "elections": parties, candidates, their number, percentage of votes cast for each.

What is not able? You had ONE "candidate" in the "elections".

Learn Russian language:

Choice - What you can choose from (Ozhegov's Dictionary)

Do you remember? Then do not dare to call that CLOWN-election.

Quote: nickname7

Kolchak or Krasnov received posts upon birth,

to school, ignoramus! Both walked a step-by-step HUGE way until they became admirals.

Denikin, Kornilov-generally soldiers' children

Quote: nickname7

The Bolsheviks did not have masters, the Bolsheviks are a people and democracy.

That they said so, no one else. They didn’t win any elections, they ALL lost, and they were afraid of the elections until ANIMAL HORROR and a night cold sweat. Therefore, neither parties, nor newspapers, nor opinions were -NI-CHE-GO, they trembled with fear.

Quote: nickname7

When you, the Russian Empire generally ceased to exist, collapsed.

ALL independence appeared EXCLUSIVELY AFTER the thief and the dumbest so-called. "decrees" of the usurpers about the "world (led to the most terrible massacre in the country and annexations) and "peoples' rights" (led to today's borders of Russia)

Quote: nickname7

And with us, the Russian Federation became the second economy.

At the cost of incredible sacrifices and people's tension, a thing was built that could not stand any competition and fell apart: the only thing that you produced with incredible productivity by 1991 is coupons for panties, socks, food, etc.

These are simply FACTS that cannot be refuted.

[fuxila]

Here's a miracle - under Olgovich, the empire "ceased to exist altogether" (after all, Olgovich is at least 300 years old ), and under "nickname 7" RF "became the second economy".
It seems so to me? or do you still have big gaps in education? Omitting such a trifle that the word "Bolsheviks" is spelled with "e", still explain when the Russian Federation became the second economy? According to various economists, the first or second place is shared between the United States and China, depending on who counts and how. But there is also the Federal Republic of Germany, France, Japan and Britain .... If you write about the times of the USSR, so what does the Russian Federation have to do with it, because even under the USSR it did not exist, but there was the RSFSR ?!

[fighter angel]

Olgovich.
When will you finally calm down in your "imperial bulkokhrustanstvo"?
With your one known alternative story?
Have you been canceled your visits in your ward No. 6 today, or haven’t you been taken for a walk?
And Vladimir Semenovich in the 1970s warned:

"Dear editor, is it better about the reactor?"
About your favorite moon tractor?
After all, it's impossible for a year in a row ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

When will you finally calm down in your "imperial bulkokhrustnichestvo"
With your one you know alternative history ??

You according to the stated FACTS real are stories capable of telling anything?

Maybe disprove something, according to your stolen Russian cities, lands, lost people?

No? "Knowledge" is enough only for an empty BOLT and the crunch of sand from a leaky one?

Then do not fool your head, idle talk ...

[fighter angel]

What, to the devil, "facts"?
You mean your numbers, it’s not known where they came from?
You have been denied them here a hundred times!
But you persistently continue to sculpt them!
Everyone on VO has long known that it is you who are lying, and all your "facts" are just an empty chatter.
And you are fooling people’s heads here!
Vashbrod "Bulkokhrust"!

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

What, to the devil, "facts"?
You mean your numbers, it’s not known where they came from?

Na, liar and ignoramus by land: http: //istmat.info/files/uploads/18147/narhoz_rsfsr_1956_predislovie_2.pdf
Or, for you, the "opening" - the tearing of Russia into 15 states?

Blown up: the tombs of MININ and POZHARSKY, BAGRATION and DOKHTUROV, the monuments of BORODINO, MALOYAROSLAVTS, and tens of thousands others are also a "secret"?

blown up tomb of Prince Pozharsky

More than 10 million dead from starvation - also not Copenhagen?

So go to school, go on! -To learn the history of your country!

[fighter angel]

So what, for the hundredth time, spread out the numbers that show the triumph of the Soviet state and the complete backwardness of Tsarist Russia!
Somehow illogical, Olgovich.
Anti-Soviet, and spread the data in favor of the USSR ...
Apparently, there was absolutely nothing to be proud of in RI!
The manifested WWI, Russo-Japanese, Tsushima - a catastrophe of the fleet, a rebellion in the Black Sea Fleet, during the suppression of which more than 2.000 people were shot, the monstrous famine of 1913 claimed more than 1.5 million lives- NIKOLASHA GRAIN SHOWS ABOUT THE BORDER! And he wanted to spit on his people, who have nothing to eat ...
For 5 years PMV aircraft engines were built as many as 500 pieces !!! Awesome result!
Germany and Austria-Hungary produced the same amount per month!
SHAME, YES AND ONLY !!!
And this is just the tip of the iceberg!
In the data that Olgovich refers to, only one thing is visible:
Absolute growth in the USSR in all respects, well, except for the territories. So all these territories, all returned to the USSR in the form of the Union Soviet Republics. Everything except Finland and Poland, so after the Napoleonic wars, these parasites should have been kicked in the ass to "free swimming", and then to see how they would rummage around and chew their hawalniks!

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

So what, for the hundredth time, spread out the numbers that show the triumph of the Soviet state and the complete backwardness of Tsarist Russia!
Somehow illogical, Olgovich

The loss of Russia ...5 million km2 и tens of millions people with YOU is a "triumph", yes! Triumph of RUSOPHOBOV and HATERS of Russia.

Because of these, today the Russians are killed in the Russian Donbas, it was yours who gave it exactly one hundred years ago to the Ukraine created by YOU, as well as Odessa, where they burned the Russians

Quote: fighter angel

Simulated WWI

YOU, my dear: NOBODY except you-Brest was not going to conclude.

And in Brest, it dawned on June 22.

Quote: fighter angel

the monstrous famine of 1913 claimed more than 1.5 million lives

Bring a liar to the document: even Soviet historians didn’t write such Funny you, liar !.

But the documents on the unprecedented number of victims of famine in the WORLD and HISTORY are 32-33 g-, 22 g, 47 g-rampart!

Quote: fighter angel

Absolute growth in the USSR in all respects, well, except for territories

: Wow:

-abortion-FIRST in the world and allowed in quantity: more was produced per year than in the whole world, total-200 million! PEOPLE - WHERE for such huge territories of Russia, eh? And they began to die oute since 1964
First-by Suicide
-in the amount of food consumed among developed countries (first place -from the end)
-on alcoholics
-by the number of people executed in peacetime (1937)
and so forth

Quote: fighter angel

So these all territories, all returned to the USSR in the form of the Union Soviet republics.

And Russia is here, how sideways, except in the role of a DAWN COW, which you made of her and nurtured and brought up at her expense nationalistic STATE-Russophobes? "
"Thank you dear!

[fighter angel]

Here you are, anti-Soviet, about the hunger in RI!
Have you heard "your lordship" about that?
Study, "vashbrodie":
At the beginning of the 20th century, the years were hungry in Russia: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912.

In the years 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces went hungry: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 - 1,6% of the population.

From 1905 to 1908, from 19 to 29 provinces starved to death: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population.

In 1911 - 1912, over 2 years, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.

30 million people were on the verge of death!

And Nikolashka with a brood on the yacht "Standart" rode at that time!

[fighter angel]

About hunger in the Republic of Ingushetia from reports to Tsarishka:
Let's take a look at the reports again.
Data at the end of XIX - beginning. XX centuries:
From a report to the tsar for 1892 (especially unfavorable and lean), "Only from a death toll of up to two million Orthodox souls." According to the laws of that time, only those who were buried in Orthodox churches fell into statistics; there is no evidence of the number of dead "foreigners", Old Believers, or "atheists" at all. But after all, even in the same Vyatka province, Old Believers (schismatics), “foreigners” (unbaptized Mordvinians and Votyaks) lived and worked side by side with Russian peasants. The Catholics kept their account of the dead, but this data was not submitted to the general report.
Report to Nicholas II for January 1902: “In the winter of 1900-01, 12 provinces with a total population of up to 42 million people went hungry. From this, the death rate of 2 million 813 thousand Orthodox souls. ”
How do you like such facts, a liar-bulcochrust?
You didn’t starve, you say, people under the king?

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

About hunger in RI from reports to the king:
Let's take a look at the reports again.
Data at the end of XIX - beginning. XX centuries:
Of report to the tsar for 1892 (especially unfavorable and lean): “Only from the death rate to two million Orthodox souls". According to the laws of that time, only those who were buried in Orthodox churches fell into statistics; there is no evidence of the number of dead "foreigners", Old Believers, or "atheists" at all. But at least in the same Vyatka province

I hope you have these "reports" in the paper version?

So turn them into a tube and-there, there, yeah!

There are NO such "reports" in nature, ignoramus, does NOT exist (except on stupid kommsaytah where you rot bit).

Shame ....

[fighter angel]

You keep your homosexual to yourself, your ford!
What are you turning into a tube there and where are you stuffing yourself about us, normally oriented people are not interested in knowing.
You can poke anything you want, why should everyone talk about it here?
That's where the -BIGGEST! Shame!

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

You mine homosexual keep it to yourself, your ford!
What do you turn into a tube there and where to yourself thrust in-.

1. What an amazing, unpredictable reaction : apparently- "who has what" hurts ".... What "hurts" you, it is clear ..... To be honest: I do not approve, do not ...

I meant: "back to the far shelf" So do with unsuccessful projections, yes, normal people ....

2, you will present the EVIDENCE of that BAD that resulted above: archive, number of case of storage?
No?
Gossip are you loading up? Yes.

But don't take your time with people

[fighter angel]

I don’t take time with people.
But for you, the fagot monarchist-Bulkokhrust, who obviously imagines himself the heir of the homosexual F. Yusupov, I report that the sodomites and sodomites felt very at ease in RI, they even took positions in the government. But in the USSR they were dealt with quickly and correctly: introduced a criminal article for pederasty. And it is right! And, judging by your Gomosyak inclinations, you would, "your vagabond", would have gone under this article as cute, with all the ensuing consequences of the content.
Well, now on the topic, indicating the sources.
Eat, and look do not choke, anti-Soviet:
1896 -1911. Hunger and epidemics in Tsarist Russia.

For trips to the famine, see V. Figner. Memoirs and Diary of N. Belyavskaya
See also in the Chronicler in pdf format: http://www.domarchive.ru/chronica/286

We all know about the Famine in the Volga region in 1920-21 and the Famine in Ukraine in the early 1930s, that is, under the "Bolsheviks", who are considered the culprits of these disasters. Moreover, they are accused of premeditated murder - that these “famines” were organized by them for the extermination of the people and therefore fall under the definition of genocide. This could be believed if the Famine in Russia first happened under the "Bolsheviks", and before their rule people had never heard of such a disaster. But, it turns out, hunger was a regular and massive phenomenon in tsarist Russia. The hungry years were repeated with the same frequency, after 8-11 years, with which the lean years happened.

Starvation as a disaster, covering a more or less significant group of the country's population, was common in Russia in the 50th and early XNUMXth centuries, just as in Western Europe of the XNUMXth and first half of the XNUMXth centuries. Russia followed the same path as the countries of Western Europe, but lagged behind by XNUMX years.
On average, 10% of the population starved in European Russia.

SHARE OF HUNGERS IN THE POPULATION OF CENTRAL RUSSIA
(without Poland and without Finland) in 1891-1911 years
HUNGER: 1891 - 25,7% and 1892 - 9,1%. In 1893 - 0,1%, 1894 - 0,5%, 1895 - 1,1%, 1896 - 2,2%,
1897 - 3,8%, 1898 - 9,7% 1899 - 3,2%, 1900 - 1,5%.

At the beginning of the XX century, Russia was hungry in Russia: 1901-1902, 1905-1908 and 1911 - 1912 years.
In 1901 - 1902, 49 provinces starved: in 1901 - 6,6%, 1902 - 1%, 1903 - 0,6%, 1904 -― 1,6%.
In 1905 - 1908. starved from 19 to 29 provinces: in 1905 - 7,7%, 1906 - 17,3% of the population
In 1911 - 1912 over the 2 of the year, famine swept 60 provinces: in 1911 - 14,9% of the population.
30 million people were on the brink of death.

According to various estimates in the years 1901-1912. about 8 million people died from hunger and its consequences. The tsarist government was preoccupied with how to hide the scale of hunger. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word “hunger,” replacing it with the word “underperformance.”

One can doubt the concrete figures about the number of deaths from starvation, but one cannot doubt that hunger was a regular and widespread phenomenon in tsarist Russia.

GRAIN FOR EXPORT. Despite the famine, grain flowed from Russia to Europe (as now oil and gas also go to Europe, bypassing Russia). On average, 30% of the bread was exported annually. So, the trade in bread was a necessary measure, and was not at all due to an excess of it. The Tsar’s Minister Vyshnegradsky, answering the accusations of selling bread abroad even during the famine in Russia, said from the rostrum of the State Duma: “We are undernourished, but we’ll take them out!” This slogan was implemented.

EIGHT MILLION PEOPLE !!!
FOR INCOMPLETE TEN YEARS !!!
DIED FROM HUNGER IN RI, AND TSARISHKA EXPORTED GRAIN !!!
HOW DO YOU SUCH FACTS?
NOT BOLSHEVIKI, AND TSARISM STARED THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE BY HUNGER !!!

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

But for the you fag bulgarhrust monarchist

what a lovely little face you have!

Quote: fighter angel

homosexual, sodomites and husbands, for pederasty. homosexual inclinations,

Yes, I do not blame you for these, um, "naughty", do not get excited, but ... I do not approve

Quote: fighter angel

Eat, and look do not choke,

again the same face

Quote: fighter angel

Well, now on the topic, indicating the sources.

1896 -1911. Hunger and epidemics in Tsarist Russia.

For trips to the famine, see V. Figner. Memoirs and Diary of N. Belyavskaya
See also in the Chronicler in pdf format: http://www.domarchive.ru/chronica/286

Sources are DOCUMENTS, and not an empty NURSE, as you have. For instance:

TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62, 63, 64.
special communication of the secret political department of the OGPU on industrial difficulties in certain regions of the North Caucasus Territory
7 March 1933 city

YEY DISTRICT. Village Dolzhanskaya - 22 / II food assistance commission, having examined, established that tr. G **** was eaten corpse of owl of deceased sister.

In the same village, it was established that group D *** remained after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothersIt was the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

St. Novo-Scherbinovskaya. In the 3rd collective farm brigade, wife E *** sArubila and with "ate her 3-year-old child, family E *** consists of 8 people,

The cemetery found up to 30 corpses thrown out during the night, some of the corpses were bitten by dogs. The corpse of the collective farmer REZNIK was cut in half, without legs, several coffins were found there, from which the corpses disappeared.

In the 3rd brigade, wife C *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
A girl’s corpse was found in the apartment with her legs cut off and boiled meat was found.

etc.
there are thousands of such DOCUMENTS!

Now about Figner: it is she who writes about the "trip to hunger" from your source: Is there really no light in the village life, in the soul of the peasant? There is nothing attractive, touchingly cute ?! Why paint a village with such colors that no one wants to get into it, and everyone will try to stay away from it! ..

Gleb Ivanovich listened patiently and wrinkled his forehead more and more. Finally, assuming a plaintive, pretentious appearance, he spoke with his good-natured and ironic tone, addressing those present: “Here, gentlemen, Vera Nikolaevna is offended by me for my man! She doesn’t like my man... she demands: give her a man, but man chocolate! In care!

Quote: fighter angel

On various estimates in 1901-1912 from hunger and its consequences killed about 8 million human.

Documents about it, on the table, LIAR!
There is NOT a SINGLE document, mention - even from critics of RI, even SOVIET "historians-Demographers" did not write this nonsense.

PS You are not the first to try to find them, but so far no one has succeeded

Quote: fighter angel

The Tsar’s Minister Vyshnegradsky, answering the accusations of selling bread abroad even during the famine in Russia, said from the rostrum of the State Duma: “We are undernourished, but we’ll take them out!”

He had never said such a thing. Or bring his speech?

Ignoramus. You are clumsy, all these nonsense have long been dispelled.

Hack a nodule on your nose: such a terrible famine (for the victims) as there was in PEACE 32-33 in our country did not exist in the world before never and nowhere (This is also known for a long time).

[fighter angel]

You, Andrey Olgovich, will be chopping at your place there.
On one nose, or on the other lower. In short, you yourself choose where you will be more familiar.
You won’t calm down, you can’t wander around?
You were little, then eat more.
Here are some more facts about the famine in RI:

Historical background
Mass famine in tsarist Russia is a social disaster that regularly occurred in pre-revolutionary Russia, caused by a prolonged shortage of food and leading to mass deaths in large regions (1). “Famine was a frequent occurrence in tsarist Russia. The bulk of the working people are malnourished. In the 18th century there were 34 hunger strikes in the 19th century. - more than 40, for the first 12 years of the 20th century. (1901-12) - 7. They covered dozens of provinces ”(2).

“There are two forms of hunger - explicit (absolute hunger) and latent (relative hunger: malnutrition, lack or lack of vital components in the diet). In both forms, hunger leads to grave consequences - an increased incidence of infectious, mental and other diseases associated with metabolic disorders, to limited physical and mental development (see Starvation), premature death ”(3).

Famine has been historically inherent in Russia since ancient times, a great famine occurred about once every ten years and claimed hundreds of thousands, and sometimes millions, of lives.

Famous hunger researcher - Professor V.N.Leshkov calculated that since the beginning of the XI for every century there were 8 crop failures. Their reasons were the same as in modern times: drought, excess rainfall, early frosts, locusts, dry winds, etc., the largest, it is called "The Great Famine" happened in 1601-1603, when they ate straw, hay , dogs, cats, mice, all sorts, such an abomination that, as the chronicler says, writing is unworthy ”(4).

In the 19th century, cases of famine caused by crop failure became more frequent. In 1842, the government found that crop failures were repeated every 6-7 years, continuing for two consecutive years (5).

The all-Russian famine of 1891-1892 swept 17 provinces with a population of 36 million people (6), according to official figures, 400.000 people died from it (only adults and only Russian nations (Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians) were counted, “foreigners” (not baptized) in those years were not taken into account by statistics at all) (7).

According to historians, of that time, as well as of modern ones, from 1891 thousand to 92 million people died of starvation in 800/2.4, as they calculated the super-mortality of 1892, based not on the mortality of 1891, also hungry, but on the basis of data 1888, 1889 and 1890 (8).

In total, in the second half of the 1892th century there were over twenty “hungry years” (according to a report to the tsar for 9) (XNUMX).

The territory covered by hunger strikes in Russia began to grow with the beginning of the development of capitalism, that is, after the abolition of serfdom in 1861, since considerations of maximizing profits, rather than providing life, began to prevail in the country.

By the way, the abolition of serfdom led to even greater monetary enslavement of the peasants, since they received freedom and there was no land, and they were forced to buy it at a price of 2-3, and sometimes 5-6 times more expensive than the market. All these factors led to the fact that the peasants began to go bankrupt, which led to a famine in the villages and an increase in the number of epidemics.

From 1860 to 1880, the average peasant allotment decreased by about 30% - from 4,6 to 3,5 acres (10).

If in 1880-1890. the number of starving provinces in a lean year ranged from 6 to 18,

then in 1890–1900 the minimum was 9, and the maximum was 29; for 1901–1910 the corresponding numbers were 19 and 49,


and the famine of 1911–1912 covered two provinces in two years (60).

Since the beginning of the 20th century, the hungry years have gone one after another. “In the winter of 1900/01, 42 million people went hungry, but 2 million 813 thousand Orthodox souls died as a result of this hunger” (12).

The years 1902 and 1903 were hungry, which grew into riots. In 1902-03, 200 thousand regular troops, that is, 1/5 of the entire Russian army of those years, were used to suppress peasant uprisings and workers' uprisings only in the Poltava and Kharkov provinces, and this is not counting hundreds of thousands of gendarmes, Cossacks and police.

At the beginning of the 20th century, not only the bad weather interfered with the ripening of breads, but also the people's riots, which turned into the revolution of 1905-1907, also acted as reasons.

The famine of 1905 struck 22 provinces, including four non-chernozem provinces - Pskov, Novgorod, Vitebsk, Kostroma. Hunger was observed in 1906, 1907 and in 1908.

“The consumption of food bread (except oats) per capita on average in 1901-1904. it was equal to 16,36 pounds, in the next hungry four-year period of 1905-1908. it went down to 13,69 pounds. on average, or decreased by 16%, in the most lean year - 1906/07 - to 12,57 pounds. or 23% ”(13).

This famine was accompanied by a sharp increase in the incidence. The number of diseases only scurvy from 1905 to 1907 increased by 528%. Mass hunger in tsarist Russia has always led to an increase in deaths from epidemics by 300-400%, since strong and prolonged hunger significantly reduces immunity, and epidemics in tsarist Russia were common, in particular measles and scarlet fever among children.

In 1911 (already after the praised Stolypin reforms): “32 million were starving, 1 million 613 thousand people died of this hunger” (more than 1900 million people died of starvation from 1912 to 8) (14).


But even when a great famine did not happen in Russia, this does not mean that people ate their fill, it only means that they did not starve. Moreover, in such years, individual counties were starving. Even in the “normal” years, the situation was difficult. This is evidenced by the very low level of the officially established “physiological minimum” - 14 pounds of bread per year, and bread was the main food of the inhabitants of the pre-revolutionary village (15).

In 1907, Prince D.N. Svyatopolk-Mirsky in the State Duma declared that 212 kg of bread were consumed per capita in Russia, while in England - 299 kg, in France - 363 kg, in Germany - 317 kg (16).

Numerous cases of mass hunger were carefully hushed up in the Russian press, the word “hunger” was strictly forbidden to write, and the word “undercity” was used instead. Against starving peasants, forceful methods of influence were regularly used, both in collecting taxes, which amounted to 13% of family income (1% to the state treasury plus 12% local taxes), and arrears.

The peasants hid the grain in the event of a crop failure, for they understood that hunger awaited them even without paying taxes; in such cases, a police officer with the help of the Cossacks, searched, searched for caches with grain.
THERE WHERE THE SUPPLY WAS !!!
UNDER TsARISM, NOT AT ALL WITH SOVIET AUTHORITY !!!

When the famine had already come, so that people would not scatter to villages, the authorities made decisions to stop them, Cossacks who would not allow people to flee from the village began to enter the starving villages. The village was allowed to leave those who had a passport (but few had it). Those who did not have a passport were considered vagabonds; they were beaten by the Cossacks or even imprisoned (17).

WHAT DO WE SEE?
However, under the tsar the peasants were not released from the village,
TSARISM REPLAINED THE PEASANTS, NOT THE SOVIET AUTHORITY !!!

The masses of the working population of tsarist Russia were in a state of constant "popular disease" - malnutrition. The slightest crop failure turned this malnutrition into hunger. In 1908, even the tsarist Ministry of the Interior was forced to admit in one of its reports that the threat of death "by starvation is annually a very possible fate for a significant number of Russian farmers" (18).

You need to throw more facts, huh, bunk crunch?
Or maybe you will try to "dispel" them, LIAR-ANTI-ADVISER ?!

[fighter angel]

And here is how tsarism "took care" of people, and treated the victims of the famine:

Extremely inadequate and untimely assistance in the event of massive hunger. The tsarist government was most concerned about how to hide the scale of hunger strikes. In the press, censorship forbade the use of the word hunger, replacing it with the word "infirmity." If under Alexander II during the biggest famine of 1871, zemstvos, the Red Cross and other organizations were actively involved in helping the hungry, then Nicholas II sharply curtailed the rights of zemstvos to combat hunger, and in 1911 and 1912 completely prohibited the participation of zemstvos, Red Cross and charitable organizations in assisting the starving53). Getting hungry help (“a hunger loan”) was also difficult. The Hunger Loan was 1 pound of flour per month per adult and 1/2 pound of flour per child. At the same time, adults between the ages of 18 and 55 did not have the right to get a “hunger loan” (they say, parasites have nothing to feed, they themselves will get out). The ownerless peasants (and there were 3,5 million families in Russia, these were usually farm laborers), widows and orphans who were to be fed by the rural community “from surplus aid” were excluded from the recipients of the “hunger loan”. Thus, the most defenseless sections of society were doomed to starvation, because there was no surplus in the starving village54). Loans and free diners really saved a lot of people and alleviated the suffering, without which the situation would have become simply monstrous. But their coverage was limited and completely inadequate. In those cases when bread aid reached the starving people, it was often already too late. People have already died or received irreparable health disorders, the treatment of which required qualified medical assistance. But in tsarist Russia there was a catastrophic lack of doctors, even medical assistants, not to mention medicines and anti-starvation drugs. In 1891-92, over 30 million people were starving. But only up to 1,5 million people were fed in the canteens opened by the Red Cross55). Moreover, the received "hunger loan" subsequently had to be repaid. In 1911, over 20 million rubles were recovered from the starving Samara province. arrears for "hunger loans" of previous years. And how many were collected throughout Russia, how many people were thereby killed in the famine of 1911-1912, collecting “hunger loans” received in the famine of 1901-1902, 1905-1908).

CHARGE YOURSELF, "Blue Blood" WHERE YOU WANT, THESE FACTS!
FROM WHAT YOU RELEASE FROM THEM - THEY WILL NOT DISAPPEAR ANYTHING !!!

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

“In the winter of 1900/01, 42 million people went hungry, but 2 million 813 thousand Orthodox souls died as a result of this famine”

Rotten FALSE.

1911 (after the praised Stolypin reforms): “32 million were starving, 1 million 613 thousand people died of this hunger”

FALSE again, NOTHING confirmed or fixed by ANYONE

Documents on the table, liar liar!

Here are such documents as about the "blooming USSR, in MIRNY! 1933:

TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 74, 75, 76, 77, 78. The original.
VOLODAR DISTRICT. In the village of Rudoye, having left 3 young children at home, I **** left the village. Having absolutely no food, in agreement with the older sister, A 9-year-old boy killed a 3-year-old girl (sister), after which her head was cut off and corpse meat was eaten raw.
CHERNYAKHOVSKY DISTRICT. In the village of Andreev, poor Zh *** died due to malnutrition. 11 year old the boy - with a knife he opened the belly of the deceased father, took out the insides and prepared themto cook.
VINNYTSIA REGION ...
In the village of Pinkovka, a collective farmer, poor K ***, 50 years old, killed his two daughters 7 and 9 years old, whose meat was eaten... The murder of K *** o's children "is made clear by hunger for a long period of time. During the search, no food products were found on him.

Quote: fighter angel

In 1907, Prince D.N. Svyatopolk-Mirsky in the State Duma declared that per capita in Russia was consumed 212 kg of bread

ignoramus, it’s a TALE for Soviet people: in 1937 ... they consumed 192 kg of breadhear not? TWENTY kg less than 30 years ago! The same with meat, milk, clothes (Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955).
SHAME ...

Quote: fighter angel

You need to throw more facts, huh, bunk crunch?

Naturally: because while you have cited not facts, only an empty CHEST.

Roll it, by the way, into tubules too, huh!

Deaths from hunger after 1892 in Russia were NOT,.

about this - tie yourself as a keepsake, um, -knot

[fighter angel]

"... There were NO deaths from hunger in Russia after 1892,

This is not proof!
And I declare to you - what! And very, very much! About 8 million!
Between 1902 and 1911!
Prove to me that they were not, or finally shut your blew!

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

This is not proof!
And I declare to you - what! And very, very much! About 8 million!

So PROVE the existence of these deaths from hunger: ARCHIVAL documents, HISTORICAL research and not stupid delirium from the newspaper ... "Bolshevik truth", which is ... the primary source of "reports" ... to the tsar (no others, alas for you

Bring these "reports" from the ARCHIVES, a void-talker and a liar!
NO them, ignoramus

Quote: fighter angel

Prove to me that they were not there, or finally shut blew his!

This was proved not by me, but even by SOVIET and POST-CONSCIENT scientists, historians and demographers Urlanis, Anfimov, etc., foreign researchers (Robbins), TSB (first edition): they mention the victims only in relation to 1891-92 (and this is mainly from cholera, mainly ): NO hunger mass deaths after this no one mentions anywhere!
In addition to yours marginals from .... "Bolshevik ...." truth "

But the TRUTH from the archives of Saratov, for example:

F. R-461. Op. 4.D. 33.L. 31,32.
:
On March 5, 33, public catering on the collective farm ceased, and *** fell ill, could not go to work, and therefore a hunger strike began.
The family began to use the most suitable substitute, the father killed the dog, and after the death of his father, they began to eat horse patal, human feces, fish scales, various rotten vegetables and grass.
On April 27, Anna died on the stove, the corpse lay uncleaned for three days, and on April 29, a 6-year-old boy Mikhail died near this corpse, and both corpses were buried on April 30.
Daughter Natalia 18 years old / graduated from the seven-year plan / cut off the breasts of the mother’s corpse, it cooked and ate

Did it get there?

[fighter angel]

Нет!
Uncle, you are sculpting everything by the checkout counter!
Where is your evidence that after 1892, TYPE, WASN'T HUNGER IN RI ???
And I affirm that hunger was from 1902 to 1912 in Russia!
WITH VICTIMS OF THE ORDER OF EIGHT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ONLY ORTHODOX !!!
B-S-L, hear, no, sick?
Or prove me the opposite, or slam your window on the latch!
Come on, start to prove it to me ...
I look forward to!

[fighter angel]

"... Bring these" reports "from the ARCHIVES, an empty talker and a liar!
NO them ... "

Yes, my miserable misunderstanding!
And there are NO executions of executions signed by Khrushch in the archives!
But it absolutely DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY WERE NOT!
They were! And there are memoirs / memoirs of eyewitnesses and contemporaries.
Or is this also "not proof" ???
The archives were "cleaned up" in advance ...
And here is the same system - you are told in Russian that CARISM HIDDEN THE REAL SCALE OF HUNGER OF 1902-1912 BY ALL ACCESSIBLE AND UNAVAILABLE METHODS !!!
So that people like you, the boulder crunches, would dance on the bones, and with their feces could throw themselves into the Soviet regime.

[fighter angel]

Well, where is the evidence that there was supposedly no famine in the period 1902-1912?
A HUNGER WAS!
AT THE KINGDOM, FROM 1902 TO 1912, WITH VICTIMS FROM TWO TO EIGHT MILLION PEOPLE ONLY BAPTIZED !!!
You cannot prove his absence, flawed ...
Or can you?
Let's prove to me that he was not there, I'm waiting!
This is not your comment down there deleted?
Tried to be rude and insult, anti-Soviet?
Bummer, such "geese" do not take off here.

[Olgovich]

Quote: fighter angel

Well, where is the evidence that there was supposedly no famine in the period 1902-1912?
A HUNGER WAS!

The hungry years WERE!
But deaths from hunger, cannibalism, it was NOT ..

Quote: fighter angel

AT THE KINGDOM, FROM 1902 TO 1912, WITH VICTIMS FROM TWO TO EIGHT MILLION PEOPLE ONLY BAPTIZED !!!

A sad LIE, the primary source of which is the newspaper "Bolshevik Truth" for ..... 2001 year

Quote: fighter angel

This is not your comment down there deleted?
I tried to be rude and insultanti-soviet?

I write it: you are presented conscience / post-Soviet scholars historians and demographers who led deaths exclusively to 1891-92 yyy (and then mainly from cholera)
NO mass deaths later — NOT seized.

When you find "reports", come.

In the meantime, DO NOT fool your head.

That's all. (this is deleted)

[fighter angel]

No, my dear, what you say is a "lie" is not a proof!
Not convinced, sickly!
And I tell you, HUNGER 1902-1912 HAS BEEN, AND HIS BECOMES VICTIMS FROM TWO TO EIGHT MILLIONS. ALL OF THEM WERE DIED! A HUNGER-FIRST 16 GOVERNMENT AND THIRTY MILLION PERSONS!
Prove that this is not so!
Prove and show the sources where it is allegedly "not recorded" ...
Or slam the window on the latch!
And people don’t take a fool.

[fuxila]

Can you find out where you got the data about 1,5 million who died of hunger in 1913? As far as I know, this was the most successful year in the history of Russia, and subsequently statistical data were always tied to this particular year (first of all, the Soviet ones, according to which I studied). I have great doubts about the veracity of these figures, because according to the data that I met, the last famine with large victims belonged to 1892, and the number of victims increased due to the epidemic that spread from Central Asia, but even then the number of deaths is estimated within 700-800 thousand people I am interested in your data already because working in the archives, I have not seen such figures, especially considering that the figures you quoted for 500 aircraft engines in 5 years of PMA (and it actually lasted 4 years, and for Russia, in fact, 3 - until November 1917) contradict the data given in Beshanov's book "Stalin the Undertaker of the Red Army", where on page 277 it is indicated that in 1916 alone 1398 engines were produced.

[fighter angel]

The epidemic of 1911.
I corrected my statements.
But the essence of this does not change. The victims of the famine of 1902-1911. in RI became about EIGHT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE!
You have not seen such figures when "studying the archives" ???
No?! Well then, apparently, they were looking in the wrong archives.
About aircraft engines.
Your beshanov, if you cite the title of his book correctly, is a liar who writes "sensational" nasty yellow little books to order.
Therefore, you can’t believe him.
And here is the proof for you: the number was 1288 engines, but this is the TOTAL NUMBER of engines assembled in Russia independently, and plus it is assembled from DELIVERED IMPORT COMPONENTS !!! And actually, 100% of the manufactured and assembled aircraft engines are exactly 516 in Russia !!! Moreover, THERE WAS OUTDATED MODELS, WITH A POWER OF 100-110 HP, AT THE TIME AS AIR-ENGINES WITH POWER OF 180-220 HP WERE MADE IN THE WORLD. AND MORE!!! Feel the difference.

[fuxila]

I did not specifically search for data on the victims of hunger in the archives, this is not my profile at all - I am engaged in railways. But along the way, one has to study a lot of other material and the famine of 1892 is marked by many as a terrible disaster - not in 1911, not in 1913 or some other, namely in 1892. In particular, the well-known railway engineers Liverovsky and Pepper Moreover, the government did everything to help the starving people, according to Pertsov’s recollections they sent so much bread that they didn’t have time to process it at the stations, because of which it disappeared.
The second point - why are you only interested in those who died of starvation in Russia, and are they not people who are dead in the USSR? If you want to be honest, then at the same time mention these unfortunate people, who, as a rule, are still silent about them. We are mainly told only about the famine in the Kuban and Ukraine in the years 31-33, but practically nothing about the rest of the USSR! A couple of months ago I looked at the OGPU reports on the Far Eastern Territory for 1929 (I was interested in the CER and the conflict around it) and there are a lot of reports of famine in the village, and a case of cannibalism was noted in Transbaikalia. Have you ever heard something like this about the territory beyond the Urals? This is my first time! And if you start to deliberately dig to create a complete picture for all years and for all the edges and regions of the USSR, then how much more will come up!
And as for Beshanov, he is just as mine as yours. I do not trust him 100% because he writes without footnotes in terms of numbers and is not always possible to verify, but I have not yet met any reasoned criticism of his works, at least there are plenty of anti-Rezunov books in stores, and I haven’t seen anything against Beshanov .
As for the procurement of military supplies from the Allies, it’s probably not a secret for you either, that Owls did the same. The union and even the assortment of goods that passed through the Vladivostok and Arkhangelsk ports to WWI and WWII coincide in many respects: steam locomotives (in both cases the same E series), wagons, cars, airplanes, medicines, etc.

[fighter angel]

fuxila
"... The second point - why are you only interested in those who died of hunger in Russia, and the millions who died in the USSR are they not people? ..."
Answer-understand correctly.
Famine and victims were in Russia and under tsarism. And this is a fact. From several hundred thousand to 8 million according to various sources. There was famine in the USSR as well, I also do not deny this fact. And I raised the topic of hunger under tsarism for the simple reason that some kind of "blue-blooded vashbrody" here claims that under the tsar it was common practice in Russia, and hunger came to the country , supposedly only with the "Bolshevik beasts"!

The purchase of military equipment in the USSR is a necessary measure.
It was caused by large losses of the initial stage and the relocation of industry to the Urals and Siberia. Look, the Soviet Union produced all the weapons of the Red Army independently, in its own country and at its factories. We will now leave the topic of "copying" certain types of weapons. The point is not about them, but in the fact that in the USSR, ALL WEAPONS WERE PRODUCED ONLY INSIDE THE COUNTRY AND ONLY AT ITS ENTERPRISES! It is a fact. I repeat, except for the purchases of single individual samples for study.
Now, regarding tsarism.
Tell me, how many weapons of the Russian army were produced directly in the country?
If 80% of the artillery park were foreign artillery systems? In addition to Zabudsky's "three-inch", the rest are Schneider-Creusot, Vickers-Armstrong, and Krupp. Here's the reason for the shell starvation of the Russian army in WWI!
Do you know how many rifles were ordered in America and Europe for the Russian army? Because their production could not cope, and could not cope? Hundreds of thousands of samples, and mostly outdated systems: Gra-Kropachek, Vetterli, Winchester95, Arisaka, etc.
The fleet of the Russian army 90% consisted of foreign cars.
What caused huge problems in their operation, repair and supply ...
There is no need to even talk about the ships, all were built at foreign shipyards, except, perhaps, some Noviks, small destroyers ...

In the USSR, all this was taken into account.
And the right conclusions were made: ONLY OWN PRODUCTION OF WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION!
So, one cannot even compare here - deliveries to the Red Army, without which it would be difficult, but would cost, in the case of the worst option. And deliveries to the tsarist army, without which it was completely deprived of combat readiness, and almost completely.

[fuxila]

There is no need to even talk about the ships, all were built at foreign shipyards, except, perhaps, some Noviks, small destroyers ...

I won't argue about artillery, because I am not strong in this area, but I was engaged in modeling ships of the WWII and WWII times in my childhood, so I responsibly declare that what was written about the fleet is complete nonsense. In WWI, we had 7 dreadnought battleships - all domestic. 3 of them continued to serve in the Sov. navy, because not a single one was built in the USSR. The next class were dodreadnoughts (they are also squadron battleships). There were 9 of them (in the main composition), and of them only one, the old Tsarevich, was built in France even before the RYAV. Then come the armored cruisers. There were 6 of them, of which 2 - Rurik-2 and Admiral Makarov - were built in England and France. Light cruisers - 8 pcs. - "foreigner" only Askold (was built in Germany). I will not disassemble other trifles such as destroyers, minesweepers and gunboats, this information is not secret and the Internet is full of it, if you want you can find it yourself.

The purchase of military equipment in the USSR is a necessary measure.
It was caused by large losses of the initial stage and the relocation of industry to the Urals and Siberia.

If you report this as a good reason, why don't you point blank that the Russian army suffered losses and the government also had to deal with the evacuation of factories. So the factories of the Rudz company, which produced a significant part of the shells, had to be hastily exported from Warsaw and Novo-Minsk to Yekaterinoslav and the production started in an open field.

[fighter angel]

"... In WWI we had 7 battleships-dreadnoughts - all domestic. 3 of them continued to serve in the Soviet fleet, because in the USSR not a single one was built ..."

I would like to clarify. I know that the project was ours, Russian, academician-shipbuilder Bubnov, if I am not mistaken. But, specify at which shipyards these 7 units were laid, and where they were built.
About the cruisers.
"Varyag" was completely built in America. So not only "Askold".
And remind, where were laid - "Bayan", "Thunderbolt", "Russia", "Diana" ???
And the light cruisers Almaz and Zhemchug?
Specified on "Noviks". The first ships of this series - yes, we have laid down.
But then, everything was laid at the shipyards of Helsingfors and Abo, and at some others, German (until 1914), American, Swedish and others.
And for completeness, let's remember where the Russian submarines were laid down and launched: "Shark", "Lamprey", "Crab", etc.

About the evacuation, partly agree.
But how many were taken to WWI, and how much to the Great Patriotic War?
In PMV, your plant is Ruzsky, and Russo-Balt from Riga, and about 20-30 small enterprises.

And in 1941-1942. In total, two evacuation stages were evacuated - from June 1941 to February 1942 and in the spring and summer of 1942 - 2743 enterprises, including 1523 large ones, were transported from the western and southern regions of the country. Most of the factories (550) were taken from Ukraine, almost the same number (498) from the metropolitan area, 109 enterprises were evacuated from Belarus and 92 from Leningrad. Most of these enterprises - 667 - went to the Urals, 322 - to Siberia, 308 - to Central Asia and Kazakhstan, and 226 - to the Volga region.
The scale is simply incomparable.
And again I repeat:
The Red Army fought with weapons of its production, and did not depend on the supplies of the allies.
They will give help-well, no- We can cope on our own.
The tsarist army bought more than 70% of its weapons abroad, so without supplies it could not be considered combat ready in principle. She could not even fight without allied supplies !!!
And the Russian soldier paid for it with his blood! But the tsarist government received kickbacks from foreigners who were given arms contracts for the Russian army. What all this turned out for Russia, we well know, alas ...

[fuxila]

All 4 Baltic dreadnoughts were built in St. Petersburg. 3 Black Sea ships in Nikolaev, there is also the unfinished Nikolai 1. All 4 newest battle cruisers of the Izmail type were also built in St. Petersburg. I missed the Varyag due to the fact that he, in fact, never entered the fleet. As soon as he reached the North, he was sent to England for repairs, from where he never returned due to the revolution. He is truly "American". Russia and Thunderbolt were built in St. Petersburg at the Baltic Shipyard, in the same place (in St. Petersburg) the same type Diana and Aurora (on Galerny Island and the New Admiralty), the same type as Admiral Makarov Pallada and Bayan-2 were also built in St. Petersburg at the New Admiralty. Pearls on the Nevsky Metallic (St. Petersburg). I did not take into account the diamond at all, because he was a cruiser in name only - it was an armed yacht. But Almaz was also built in St. Petersburg at the Baltic plant. The only thing I missed was the Bogatyr cruiser, built at the Vulcan shipyard in Germany.
Further on Noviks, not the first ships of the series, but absolutely all ships were built with us. You can download an interesting book "Noviki". The best destroyers of the Russian Imperial Navy. "It contains information on all ships of this type, including those that are not completed.
Lamprey and Shark were built at the Baltic Shipyard, not to mention the Black Sea Crab, which not only Russians but also Soviet shipbuilders were rightly proud of. By the way, the Helsingfors and Abo shipyards were Russian, because Finland was part of Russia, as well as Ukraine, by the way, if you are hinting at the foreign origin of the Crab built in Nikolaev.
As for the huge scale of evacuation in the Second World War, I know very well, but it was caused by the fact that the Germans were allowed to Moscow and the Volga. If the Russian government did this, then the industrial centers of Kiev, Kharkov, etc., would also have to be evacuated, so that later they would cheerfully report on the huge work done.
I don't even want to comment on 70% of foreign weapons in the tsarist army, because even in Soviet times, it was emphasized that the allies, having received gold in advance, disrupted almost all supplies. Open Yakovlev's book "August 1, 1914" (Molodaya Gvardiya publishing house) for 1974. It directly says that the import of weapons amounted to 30% for rifles, less than 1% of cartridges for them, 23% for guns, and about 20. shells for them (p. 159)

[fighter angel]

You know, I would like to be happy at first.
With at least the Russian Navy under the tsar, the PMV was of its construction, 70-80 percent of its own, domestic.
But having delved into the essence of the issue, I realized, there’s nothing to rejoice about, alas.
It's simple.
The ships may have been built at domestic shipyards, but the materials for production, as well as power plants, boilers, machines, electrical equipment, telegraph, radio stations, lighting equipment - 90% of all imported, foreign production. Look at the armament of the ships: on dreadnoughts, the main caliber, I agree - 305 mm guns of the Obukhov plant. Well, there were also Baranovsky landing cannons on the ships, 1-2 pieces, and even then not on each one ... And, as it were, EVERYTHING! Then there are 120-mm guns Schneider, Creusot, 75-mm Canet guns, 47 and 37-mm Hotchkiss guns, "antiaircraft" guns - the same Hotchkiss. All foreign artillery systems. That is, the ships seem to have built themselves, in country, but they all consist of 80-90% foreign components, while naval artillery is 90% foreign.
It turns out that they did, as it were, themselves, but a screwdriver assembly of foreign components and assemblies. Here, in my opinion, there is nothing to be proud of!
The truth remains, more mine-torpedo armament.
Here, it’s not strong, I admit honestly.
Do you have any information on this?

[AU Ivanov.]

How many were shot by the Bolsheviks after the October Revolution? Certainly not 2000, but orders of magnitude more. And who is "bloody" there?

[Sergey Olegovich]

Alexander
I read all the comments and realized there was nothing to add, everything was said and said correctly about Judas Kolchak and the other whites. It is impossible in a country where Kolchakites, along with the interventionists, mocked, killed, shed the blood of Russian citizens, including Russian blood, to erect monuments and offer these, I can’t pick up the right words that would characterize them to the rank of heroes.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Sergey Olegovich (Sergey Olegovich)
It is impossible in a country where Kolchakites, along with the interventionists, mocked, killed, shed the blood of Russian citizens, including Russian blood, to erect monuments and offer these, I can’t pick up the right words that would characterize them to the rank of heroes.

Sergei , the whole problem is that the crushers, the blood of the common people, are not considered Russian or even worthy of mention. For them, the common people who groaned under the bullying of the Kolchakites are nothing, rubbish. But when this people rebel against their oppressors and kicks them in the neck, or even better, they start paying all these "masters" with their own coin, that is, they start shooting and hanging these ghouls, and deservedly so, here the crushers raise a howl, like, and what for us?

[Reptiloid]

But just this is all the result of actions a donkey loaded with gold !!
Either the program, tearful about Russia lost, the song mournful, someone paid for all this, then books and little books ---- expensive and cheap, then lectures which are free for visitors ---- and so 30 years!
And the descendants of those who flogged at the stable, who did not eat their fill, begin to talk about the lost Russia to feel sorry for the king ....

Quote: Sergey Olegovich

Alexander
I read all the comments and realized there was nothing to add, everything was said and said correctly about Judas Kolchak and the other whites. It is impossible in a country where Kolchakites, along with the interventionists, mocked, killed, shed the blood of Russian citizens, including Russian blood, to erect monuments and offer these, I can’t pick up the right words that would characterize them to the rank of heroes.

[mmaxx]

Well, about gold, don’t roll on Kolchak. He did not pass gold to any Czechs. He was not an angel. But he was not a thief for sure. And Siberia did not pass on to anyone. Imagine the size of Siberia. Here everyone did everything he wanted. Kolchak from Omsk could not have any influence whatsoever. One Semenov is worth. Ataman who.

[Sneaky Urus]

no need to publicize their ignorance. Even in this weak article it is written that the whites kept the gold under protection, and Kolchak was soon shot. So who could the dead Kolchak sell it to? You ignorant heard a ringing, but don’t know where it is.
By the way, the article mentions that Kolchak allegedly changed the oath to Nicholas I. And then he became a hired Entente. The author in support of his delirium did not provide any evidence. This discussion can end.

[mmaxx]

Yeah. And Kolchak handed them over against receipt. And you saw this receipt. Will show?
They took Kolchak out of the train and that's all. Gold in one direction, Kolchak in the other.
For 70 years, even the Bolsheviks did not sew Kolchak the transfer of gold to the Czechs. There is nothing to come up with all this nonsense.

[Sneaky Urus]

I wrote (or rather, the author) "taken under protection." You feel the difference with "on receipt"? In general, commentators on this topic simply need to read a contemporary of Gins, historians Plotnikov and, first of all, Vladimir Khandorin. Handorin has a blog - everything is written there in detail.

[Boris55]

Quote: Olgovich

We live under the historical state flag of Russia, known for HUNDREDS OF YEARS:

He became the state flag only under Kerensky. Peter I was confronted by the West with the fact - if you want to go to the seas, take this flag. Or the entire merchant fleet of Russia will be perceived by the West as pirate with all the ensuing consequences, but it was never recognized as a state one.

Quote: Olgovich

Under it, tens of millions of Russian soldiers fought and died for Russia, including today.

In all wars, soldiers fight and die under regimental banners. Remember which flag flew over the Reichstag:

For reference. In the army (thanks to Putin), the flag is still red, not tricolor.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Boris55 (Boris)
For reference. The army (thanks to Putin) is still a red flag.

Boris, well, I understand everything, well, you love Putin, your right, but why lie?
Where in the Russian army is there a red flag? Victory Banner? So this is not a flag of a military unit, but a symbol.
Better look what your Putin is doing with another symbol of victory - the Mausoleum, to which, incidentally, the flags of the defeated Third Reich were thrown! And what did the truly national holiday of November 7 turn into?

[Boris55]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Where in the Russian army is there a red flag?

See the parade, under which banners are units.

[Alexander Suvorov]

And under what? The flags of the units are now made in the manner of the flags of the Republic of Ingushetia during the Napoleonic Wars. No, I certainly understand that the continuity of generations and all that, but why is continuity of generations expressed in the desire to belittle all Soviet, including the Victory?
Well, God bless him, you want new flags, assign these flags to newly formed units, but old, illustrious compounds that originate from the Second World War and earlier, leave their flags under which their ancestors became famous.

[Boris55]

I, and millions of Soviet people, upon receipt of the voucher, put their signature on each of them that we were refusing the heritage of our fathers and grandfathers. Now we are strong in the back mind ... This is our mistake, which will be raked up by the next generations.

ps
The army also wanted to "transfer" to the tricolor. The military was outraged and it was Putin who left the red flag in the army. At one time, there was a report about this in the news on TV ... Look at the picture above for a better and you will see on the banners both the hammer and sickle, and Lenin ...

[mmaxx]

Yes ... my plus will not outweigh so many minuses. With enthusiasm, the people brought down the USSR, and now everyone has signed up for his champions.

[bober1982]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Flags of units are now made in the manner of the flags of the Republic of Ingushetia during the Napoleonic Wars

Have you served in the army, dear comrade? Why rave.

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Unit flags

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

in the manner of the flags of the Republic of Ingushetia during the Napoleonic Wars

[Alexander Suvorov]

First served.
Secondly, I’m definitely not your friend!
Third, you yourself rave. Look what flags are now in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation or have you been banned in Google?

[bober1982]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

First served.

It is commendable in which unit, and under what banners?

[Alexander Suvorov]

Military unit 3655, 47th operational regiment, operational division "DON-100" from 1991 to 1993. The banner under which I took the oath was red with a hammer and sickle, and on the military officer the coat of arms and the inscription of the USSR! I did not take any other oaths and did not swear allegiance to the capitalist RF.

[bober1982]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Military unit 3655, 47th operational regiment, operational division "DON-100" from 1991 to 1993

Talking about yourself excessively is not good.

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

The banner under which I took the oath was red with a sickle and a hammer, and on the military coat of arms and the inscription of the USSR!

But why grind nonsense about Napoleonic flags?

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

47th operational regiment

Subdivision?

[Alexander Suvorov]

bober1982 (vladimir)
Talking about yourself excessively is not good.

Subdivision?

Yes, you are the original old man ... Already decide between yourself, or remove the cross, or put on your pants. I tell you a lot, then give you more information.
And forgive you for what to know in which company and which platoon I served? Enemy Spy?

P.S. Enough with you and the number of the regiment. You will know a lot, grow old soon.

[bober1982]

You still don’t understand what it’s about, subdivision was under what banner?
Don't you get it?

[Alexander Suvorov]

bober1982 (vladimir)
You still did not understand what it was about, the unit was under what banner?

Somehow you wrapped up and veiled your question so that only you can understand it.
As for the banner, as I already wrote to you, that I served under the red banner, there were no other banners with me.

[bober1982]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

that served under the red banner

Units?

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

there were no other banners with me.

We start all over again.
Why flog nonsense about Napoleonic banners?

[Alexander Suvorov]

bober1982 (vladimir)
Why flog nonsense about Napoleonic banners?

You quite or just pretend to be? What the fuck Napoleonic banners? Have forgotten how to read? Now the banners in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation resemble in type the banners of the regiments of the RUSSIAN ARMY OF THE SAMPLE of 1812, so it’s clear or DO NOT KEEP ?!

We start all over again.

Finish ...

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: bober1982

Don't you get it?

Come on, come on that "patriot", well, the people completely reported it ...

[Varyag_0711]

Well, let's put it in a match between you and the "beaver", he is just the same patriot and without any quotation marks.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Varyag_0711

he’s just a patriot and without any quotes

Leavened. Under the banner of the unit

Quote: Varyag_0711

... unlike you and the beaver ...

Come on in, they don’t pour it ... buddy

[Varyag_0711]

Golovan Jack
Leavened. Under the unit banner yes

He is no more leavened than you, the famous troll of the whole BO, isn't it "cat mannul"?

Come on in, they don’t pour it here ...

I do not take excessive measures and I do not advise you.

buddy laughing

But this is unlikely.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Varyag_0711

He is no more fermented than you

This is a moot point, I’m just working on finding it out.

Quote: Varyag_0711

you, the famous troll of all,

Are you not one of the "order" former, buddy? Observer type? Something the style is too similar

I repeat - come on in. I did not call you

[Varyag_0711]

Golovan Jack
Are you not one of the "order" former, buddy?

So you, too, seem to be one of them, no?

Observer type?

Do not guess.

I repeat - come on in. I did not call you request

Do not indicate what to do and I won’t tell you where to go yourself.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Varyag_0711

So you, too, seem to be one of them, no?

It seems - in the company. The answer is clear.

Quote: Varyag_0711

Do not indicate what to do and I won’t tell you where to go yourself

Clear.

Okay, I’ll talk to you later. Lazy, of course ... but boors need to be taught

[Varyag_0711]

Golovan Jack
Lazy, of course ... but boors

To whom to whom, but not to you to speak about boors. Such boors as you are still looking on the site. Well, except that novels can compete with you.

need to learn

You can teach anyone, but not me, the teacher has not grown.

It seems - in the company. The answer is clear.

This is a question, and who is the boor of the two of us?
By the way, can you give an example of my rudeness towards you?

[karabass]

urgent? 2 years? I thought you weren’t old!

[mmaxx]

Well, as if Russia had not forced anyone to take the oath again. On the contrary. Officially declared the Russian Federation the successor of the USSR.

[Boris55]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Look at the flags of the RF Armed Forces now.

We're watching.

[Varyag_0711]

Boris, well, maybe it's enough to pull the elephant by the ears? Have you been banned from Google? Type in the search engine "new flags of the RF Armed Forces" and get this picture ...

Of all the flags, only the flag of the Airborne Forces and the flag of the Air Forces recall the Soviet past. Here is a link to the flags of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation if you don’t find it yourself. [Media = http: // https: //heraldy.mil.ru/files/morf/9s.jpg]
And the fact that you show red flags is left as ritual ones and is used only on great holidays such as oath or May 9, but they are not official banners of units and formations!
So enough already wishful thinking, do not disgrace.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Varyag_0711

Boris, well, maybe it's enough to pull the elephant by the ears? Have you been banned from Google? Type in the search engine "flags of the RF Armed Forces of the new model" and get ...

My friend, your ignorance is comparable only with your bad manners ...

You mean the Banner, you drive the "flag" into the search engine, and you post the picture with the standards ... these are all different things, did you not know?

Here, enlighten, everything is clear with pictures:

 Children's site Zateevo - Banners and flags of the Russian Army

http://zateevo.ru/?section=page&alias=znamja_flag

[Ezekiel 25-17]

November 7 is not a holiday, but the day of remembrance of the victims of the bloody Bolshevik regime.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Ezekiel 25-17 (Andrew)
November 7 is not a holiday, but the day of remembrance of the victims of the bloody Bolshevik regime.

For patients on the head maybe so, but for normal sane people, November 7 is still a holiday!

[Ezekiel 25-17]

The October Revolution objectively led to the genocide of Russians, first in Russia, and then this goes around and around now. So I congratulate you: you and others like you celebrate the SHO of the Russian people.

[Alexander Suvorov]

It is very unfortunate that people like you, olgovich and others like you have not been genocidal to the end. Comrade Stalin and comrade Beria did not modify it, but it’s a pity ...

[Ezekiel 25-17]

It is a pity that Peter Stolypin did not crush Bolshevism in its infancy. There were few military courts, few.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

It is very unfortunate that people like you, olgovich and others like you have not been genocidal to the end. Comrade Stalin and comrade Beria did not modify it, but it’s a pity ...

I also remind you that "genocide" by definition, even at the Nuremberg Tribunal, is a crime against humanity, where the death penalty by hanging was used as the main punishment. Keep it up! Comrade is on the right path.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Ezekiel 25-17 (Andrew)
I also remind you that "genocide" by definition, even at the Nuremberg Tribunal, is a crime against humanity.

First, read the definition of genocide, ignoramus.
Secondly, bring me at least one document besides your idle chatter, where on the official level would the actions of the Bolsheviks be recognized as genocide?
You can’t, well, shut up about genocide. And then your skakuaz brothers also love about some kind of genocide bazaar.

[nickname7]

The October Revolution objectively led to the genocide of Russians, first in Russia

That is, there was a rich RI, nothing foreshadowed, and suddenly the October Revolution attacked RI and staged the Russian genocide? It was ?
But the degradation and decomposition of tsarism, the WWII, the overthrow of the king, the Februaryists, the collapse of the country and the rebuilding of the country, citizen, was not this?

[Sugar Honeyovich]

Parade - in commemoration of the victims?

[user]

which was served wholeheartedly by the patriots of Russia, veteran heroes of the order-bearers of the Second World War

I bet you. At that time, Kolchak was officially in the service of Her Majesty the Queen of England. Therefore, it is not clear what kind of selfless service Russia is talking about.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Grandfather (Grandfather Old)
we live with the flag, under which the Vlasov fought. And Yudenich and Wrangel with Denikin, no longer know how to lick yet.

Well, maybe that's enough nonsense to carry about the Vlasov flag? Not tired? I, personally for the flag of the USSR, but to read this nonsense about the Vlasov flag is disgusting.

[Reptiloid]

Did the Vlasovites fight against Yudenich and Wrangel? Yes, that is a strong saying! "" The connection of times is mixed ""
But I often remember the historical research of V.O.Shpakovsky. , by search engine or by profile, you can find an article, like the fall of 2016, that this flag was on the White Guard armored train "United Russia"
Then he explained that this was a chapter from his book on the Pareto law.

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

Grandfather (Grandfather Old)
we live with the flag, under which the Vlasovites fought. And Yudenich and Wrangel with Denikin, no longer know how to lick yet.

Well, maybe that's enough nonsense to carry about the Vlasov flag? Not tired? I, personally for the flag of the USSR, but to read this nonsense about the Vlasov flag is disgusting.

[Alexander Suvorov]

Reptiloid (Dmitry)
Did the Vlasovites fight against Yudenich and Wrangel? Yes, that is a strong saying! "" The connection of times is mixed ""

Well, yes, the horses mixed up in a heap, people ... The crystal bakers have a complete okroshka in their heads, they both adore the bloody tough king and those who overthrew him!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Alexander Suvorov

.... among the bakers ......... at the same time they adore both the bloody tsar, the idiot, and those who overthrew him!

Ha haha ​​!!!!!!! And who are to blame for them? They say that the Bolsheviks.
The church praised the Provisional Government, its coming to power. So why could the Provisional Government push the tsar off the throne, and the Bolsheviks should have endured temporary impotent people.? After all, the temporary did not even try to solve the problems? we see similar cognitive dissonance in all modern attitudes in our country, supposedly without ideology

[mmaxx]

Tsarism was blamed on everyone. And the church is almost the largest.
Hehe. And now they are crying about the fighters and repressions.

[Reptiloid]

That's it. From the very top ---- relatives, to the very bottom

Quote: mmaxx

Tsarism was blamed on everyone. And the church is almost the largest.
Hehe. And now they are crying about the fighters and repressions.

[bandabas]

You are right. There is nothing more to say. But, they can still change the flag to black and yellow. Everything is possible with our leaders.

[Fat]

Quote: bandabas

You are right. There is nothing more to say. But, they can still change the flag to black and yellow. Everything is possible with our leaders.

Black yellow white! Black and yellow flag of the Habsburgs and the Holy Roman Empire
In general, this flag was used very little. From 1858 to 1896

[bandabas]

Thank you for pointing out the inaccuracy. But, to me personally, red is closer than a trade flag, drawn out in the early 90s by pseudo-Russian liberals.

[Nitarius]

what does the flag have to do with it? ... with that flag the peasants lived and they rebelled and so on! so don’t mix fat with honey!

[bandabas]

Yes for all. Ridna Ukraina is the usual confirmation unfortunately.

[Private89]

Yes, everything that happens since the year 91 is a series of betrayals of the interests of the people.

[Shelest2000]

What power - such are her heroes.

[Pessimist22]

I also read how Kolchak and his army in Siberia were messing around with the White Church, well, and the monument is obviously not from the people.

[mat-vey]

My great-grandfather survived all this ... If it weren’t for the Reds, Kolchak’s people would have managed to hang an old man, although who knew that he would live as much and tell his grandchildren. 106 years Kirill Sidorov lived - was born under Nicholas I died when Gagarin flew into space ..

[Vladimir_2U]

If the Bolsheviks dispersed KOMUCH, then Kolchak, after the usurpation of power, ordered the arrest of the deputies "without hesitation to use weapons", and then some of them, along with the arrested workers, were shot. For this alone, it was possible to safely lean against the wall Admiral.

[Uncle lee]

English uniform
Shoulder strap french
Japanese tobacco,
Omsk ruler.

Chorus:

Oh, my scumbag
American,
There will be no money
I'll take it for sale!

The uniform has been torn down
Epaulet fell
Tobacco smoked,
The ruler was washed away.

Omsk occupied
Irkutsk taken away
And with a scumbag
Kolchak was taken.

[Sugar Honeyovich]

"Oh, yes, our glorious detachments, Oh, yes, Kolchak will be put in a coffin"
“We passed the Amur fields, dragged Kolchak by the hair”,

[Far B]

Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia

If you remember who gave the go-ahead for the production and financing of the same movie "Admiral", who participated in its creation and allocated money for it, who allowed the rental and the conduct of the broadest (and terribly expensive) advertising campaign before that, then it will be necessary to admit that agents of the West are the lion's share of our financial and political "elite". Although, however, I hardly discovered America now ...

[mmaxx]

Yes. A rare film ...... Points, darn were not banned)))

[Gardamir]

Reading about Kolchak, I thought, but they also acted with Nikolai. They forced to recant, and then the Romanov citizen was arrested. And it was not the Bolsheviks who did this, but the Democrats.

[Reptiloid]

When I hear, read regrets about Nicholas2, the question arises all the time --- what is this, the first and only tsar killed in Russia? No way. Was killed before Nicholas 2 --- 6 kings
And nothing! no one mournes them, does not suffer, religious processions do not go !!!!! There is something strange about it,
And if you recall the congratulations of the Supreme Oligarchs of the Church --- to the Provisional Government --- so this is some kind of surrealism

Quote: Gardamir

Reading about Kolchak, I thought, but they also acted with Nikolai. They forced to recant, and then the Romanov citizen was arrested. And it was not the Bolsheviks who did this, but the Democrats.

[Gardamir]

Well, I'm definitely not sorry about Kolya. Just do not blame the Communists for what they did not commit.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Gardamir

Well, I'm definitely not sorry about Kolya. Just do not blame the Communists for what they did not commit.

Just a little higher, and it turned out, it is written, --- the bakers are at the same time regretting the king and the whites, who overthrew him. And the Bolsheviks are to blame for everything ..

[nickname7]

Just a little higher, and it turned out, it is written, --- the bakers are at the same time regretting the king and the whites, who overthrew him. And the Bolsheviks are to blame

This is uneducability because of which, being threw them into the trash of history. And they are all looking for some kind of evil mystical power.
It happens when certain individuals, by their stupidity, make themselves an accident, they write about such people - they have received the "Darwin Prize".

[Reptiloid]

In fact, I am very glad that I read this phrase about crystal bakers here. I have been thinking about this contradiction for a long time, but I thought that maybe I don’t understand what myself? I do not know? Too shy to ask Can't so many people have such conflicting attitudes? It seemed to me so! And it turns out ---- they can .This suggests that no matter what they do --- there will be contradictions in everything and end with garbage.

Quote: nickname7

Just a little higher, and it turned out, it is written, --- the bakers are at the same time regretting the king and the whites, who overthrew him. And the Bolsheviks are to blame

This is uneducability because of which, being threw them into the trash of history. And they are all looking for some kind of evil mystical power.

[karabass]

They do not regret the tsar - they regret that an entire era has gone ineptly! 10 subjects of the Russian Empire DRAPANULO over the hill, mostly educated, how many uneducated people later disappeared is unknown! With a huge effort they built the USSR, then, as Zyuganov said, "we were shot down on takeoff" "SHO ?! AGAIN ?!"
Then they built it on horseradish if they destroyed it? And then what will happen? Will it not be destroyed again in order to build a new world on the wreckage, and then destroyed again, to the foundation, and then ...

[Reptiloid]

the era began to leave earlier, back in the 19th century ....
And what was in the 20th century before the revolution? Remember ....

[Vladimir_2U]

English uniform
Shoulder strap french
Japanese tobacco,
Omsk ruler.

[Uncle lee]

Judging by the cons on the VO alone, the White Guards are Kolchak!

[mat-vey]

Vlasovites ... In Canada, it seems that even the center is still quite living ..

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Uncle Lee

Judging by the cons on the VO alone, the White Guards are Kolchak!

Definitely, and very organized, quickly marked In general, I would have discovered the pros and cons, so that it was clear who was betting - an honest person has nothing to hide!

[Uncle lee]

And on all branches! Pancake ! I agree on the transparency of ratings!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Uncle Lee

And on all branches! Pancake ! I agree on the transparency of ratings!

I agree too. Only then will the number of flooding and mutual claims increase, they will leave the topic on the individual. So it seems to me

[karabass]

Then all quarrel! And why are you afraid of all the cons? Money from this in your pocket will not be less! On the contrary, anonymity makes it possible to freeze and express what I would think three times before blathering

[Reptiloid]

Quote: karabass

Then all quarrel! And why are you afraid of all the cons? Money from this in your pocket will not be less! On the contrary, anonymity makes it possible to freeze and express what I would think three times before blathering

You did not understand. It's not about fear of losing anonymity or fear of cons
It's about anonymity +++ and - - - - that's what

[fuxila]

I agree with you - put a minus or plus, so take it and justify it. Moreover, you need to write your last name and first name in full, as I do, with my email address (I also have it - fuxila), and do not hide behind stupid nicknames.

[ssergey1978]

Perhaps just more literate than you.

[Varyag_0711]

ssergey1978 (Sergey)
Perhaps just more literate than you.

And what is literacy expressed in? In that, it seems that some, like brainwashed waste products, are these products stuck in the brain?

[Uncle lee]

Quote: ssergey1978

more literate

Literacy was taught in the USSR. And without the exam!

[ssergey1978]

In the USSR, there were good bookkeepers, they spared bobs.

[Uncle lee]

For the slow-witted I repeat: us taught!

[Uncle lee]

Quote: ssergey1978

bookkeeper

Apparently you weren’t taught at all ...
Poor your uchИtel!

[ssergey1978]

Oh, how our competent bit you! You are all literate, the whole crowd.

[Uncle lee]

And you are illiterate and poorly educated, knowing about Kolchak only from the movie "Admiral" ...

[ssergey1978]

I was dreaming, I lived in Irkutsk for 40 years, my probabka was born in 40. born in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, a civil war passed before her eyes and the atrocities were mainly from the reds. Do you know comrade "smart" why from the Reds? because the Reds had locals and they stupidly settled scores.

[Gardamir]

They just work in three shifts. And then we are here for fun, and they have such a job.

[Krasnodar]

The masters of the West miscalculated with Kolchak - he could not resist the mighty blows of Russian civilization inflicted by comrades Kamenev, Zinoviev and political prostitute Bronstein!

[RMT]

But it is true!

[Chersky]

The problem is that Kolchak was an enemy of the people and a mercenary of foreign capital.

"What will be your evidence?" (C) But in fact, what the hell are you writing?
They retold the events that were taking place at that time, then came to this conclusion, without actually confirming anything, only with their conclusions and that’s all. What to do now? Run to demolish a monument to the admiral?))) History reflects life. And life is not a black-and-white movie, which, as I watch, is here in the minds of many.
You can imagine everything in another way. Kolchak hated the new government, it seemed to him that it personified all the worst. So he fought with her as best he could. Do foreigners help? Yes, let it! If only to crush the Bolsheviks. Could it be so? And you immediately - "mercenary, enemy" ...

[teron]

"Even with the devil, but only against the Bolsheviks."
"Do foreigners help? Yes, let them! Just to crush the Bolsheviks."
Well, then with the Nazis.
That's why we "love" whites.

[Chersky]

Here it is not necessary only to confuse warm with soft. People like you, forever all under one comb ...

[teron]

I beg your pardon, but which "like me".
Just wondering.

[Squelcher]

And the Brest Peace, signed by the Bolsheviks and Lenin, was modestly silent, and who is the protege of the West?

[Vladimir_2U]

How long did this world last? During the time of turmoil in Russia, they didn’t sign such a bastard.

[mat-vey]

So there was no other way out - by whom and what was the fight? And what did the Germans khan miscalculate at a time ..

[Sugar Honeyovich]

Quote: Squelcher

Who is the protege of the West?

A protege of the West is one whom the West has helped. At that time, he helped a lot of people, but only opponents of the Bolsheviks.

[Amateur]

A.V. Kolchak - A. Timireva:
"December 30, 1917. I am accepted to the service of His Majesty the King of England"

In Singapore, the Commander of the troops, General Readout, came to greet me and handed me a telegram urgently sent to Singapore from the director of the Intelligence Departament of the information department of the military general staff in England. This telegram read as follows: the British government accepted my proposal, nevertheless, due to the changed situation on the Mesopotamian front (later I found out what the situation was, but I could have foreseen this before), considers the request addressed to him with side of our messenger pr. Kudashev, useful for a common allied cause, so that I return to Russiathat I am advised to go to the Far East to start my activity there, and from their point of view it is more advantageous than my stay on the Mesopotamian front,

An English officer on the orders of the British government goes to Russia to become its "Supreme Ruler". A complete set of Judas for today's liberals.

[Chersky]

This is more like some argumentation, although the lack of links to sources is depressing))).
For I can just as easily give arguments that allow me to look at this Kolchak's decision from my point of view:

“... After thinking about this issue, I came to the conclusion that I have only one thing left - to continue the war all the same, as a representative of the former Russian government, which gave a certain commitment to the Allies, I held an official position, enjoyed his trust, it waged this war, and I obliged to continue this war. Then I went to the English envoy to Tokyo, Sir Green, and expressed my point of view on the situation, saying that I did not recognize this government and considered it my duty, as one of the representatives of the former government, to fulfill the promise to the allies; that the obligations that Russia made with respect to the allies are also my obligations as a representative of the Russian command, and that therefore I consider it necessary to fulfill these obligations to the end and wish to participate in the war, even if Russia made peace with the Bolsheviks. Therefore, I turned to him with the request to inform the English government that I ask that I be accepted into the English army on any terms and conditions. I do not set any conditions, but only ask to give me the opportunity to wage an active struggle.
Sir Green listened to me and said: “I fully understand you, I understand your position; I will report this to my government and ask you to wait for a response from the English government. ”

Forgot to add - this perhaps quote from the minutes of the meetings of the Extraordinary Investigation Commission.

[Amateur]

All the quotations I have quoted are taken from Kolchak’s memoirs. But really did not indicate this, because the whole story is quoted and goes from the first person. To blame!
PS Your quote is taken from the same source, only a few paragraphs earlier.

[Chersky]

All the quotations I have quoted are taken from Kolchak’s memoirs.

What??? And, I’m embarrassed to ask, did he send memoirs by telegraph from the other world or was it already an email?))))
These are all interrogation protocols. At least that's what the "omniscient Internet" says. And in this case, I believe in this worldwide garbage more)

[Amateur]

All quotes from http://militera.lib.ru/db/kolchak/01.html

Minutes of meetings of the emergency investigative commission in the Kolchak case (Verbatim report)

At one time, I read Kolchak's letters to Timireva. Therefore, without checking, I decided that everything else is also a memoir. Sorry!

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Quote: Amateur

A.V. Kolchak - A. Timireva:
"December 30, 1917. I am accepted to the service of His Majesty the King of England"

In Singapore, the Commander of the troops, General Readout, came to greet me and handed me a telegram urgently sent to Singapore from the director of the Intelligence Departament of the information department of the military general staff in England. This telegram read as follows: the British government accepted my proposal, nevertheless, due to the changed situation on the Mesopotamian front (later I found out what the situation was, but I could have foreseen this before), considers the request addressed to him with side of our messenger pr. Kudashev, useful for a common allied cause, so that I return to Russiathat I am advised to go to the Far East to start my activity there, and from their point of view it is more advantageous than my stay on the Mesopotamian front,

An English officer on the orders of the British government goes to Russia to become its "Supreme Ruler". A complete set of Judas for today's liberals.

The British were allies of Russia in the war with Germany: you are double in history.

[Varyag_0711]

Ezekiel 25-17 (Andrew)
The British were allies of Russia in the war with Germany: you are double in history.

Well, yes, with such "allies" you don't need any enemies!

[nickname7]

The British were allies of Russia in the war with Germany: you are double in history.

After the overthrow of the king by the Februaryists during the course of half a year, the Republic of Ingushetia ceased to exist and became a no man's land in the likeness of Africa, for the time being the subject disappeared, then all the agreements of the Entente were canceled.

[rocket757]

There is no story before and after! This is all our story! This should stop.

[Vladimir61]

After I once watched a blitz survey of young people on one of the federal channels, if I am not mistaken "What does the date June 22 tell you", and heard the answers, I am not surprised at anything. The historical truth is needed by a narrow circle of specialists, participants in those events, the older generation and the not indifferent young generation. For the rest, it does not bother much, since, with the rejection of the state ideology, the need to study it at the proper level has also been lost. Yes, and a noticeable rise in the status of the Orthodox Church in society, at the level of politicians, has led to the conveyor elevation to the rank of martyrs of certain historical figures.

[Reptiloid]

do not doubt that abandoning state ideology in words ---- in fact, the ideology is capitalist, bourgeois.

[Lamata]

Kolchak turned the whole of Western and Eastern Siberia against himself, even for the Reds, simply against his power. The result is logical.

[Hunter 2]

In fairness, it should be noted that Kolchak A.V. was a rather famous explorer of the Arctic, discovered and described New geographical objects, including the New Islands, and clarified the coastline. Thanks to the information collected by the Kolchak Expedition, a map of the coasts of Taimyr was compiled. His name in 1901 was named Island in the Taimyr Bay, in 1939 it was renamed Rastorguev Island. At the initiative of the Russian Geographical Society, in 2005 the island was returned the name of Kolchak.
This does not remove the responsibility for the atrocities that took place in Siberia and the Far East during his reign, but the author would not hurt to reveal this part of Kolchak’s life.

[rocket757]

Quote: Hunter 2

In fairness,

Memory, history, should not be selective!
There was a civil war, the new fought with the former! Many terrible and great events took place, all this should be reflected in history, in the textbook, AS IT WAS REALLY REAL!
There are controversial personalities, but if the monument was erected, why destroy it, it won’t fix anything, it’s just to please the conceit of the temporary workers who will perish, having done indecent acts! The destruction of the historical connection of generations, it will not bring to good!
I would return all the last monuments to their place, Lenin, Dzerzhinsky, Stalin and all the others that have survived ...
At the expense of the remake ... the question is difficult, but you can ask people. In short, everyone deserves it.

[mmaxx]

No need to ask anyone. We must not break anything and remember everything. Here is a monument. So let them tell how it was. People are prone to emotions. If you ask, we’ll smash everything.

[rocket757]

To ask people when they are going to put NEW MONUMENTS.
If there is a thematic exhibition, for example, an avenue of rulers, there to put everyone in a chronological order, for example.

[mmaxx]

They asked about the monument to Kolchak. It was a wave of rehabilitation of the actors of the civil war.
For me, Kolchak is so much better than Krasnov. The Bolsheviks also have a lot of things. I do not condone either one or the other.

[rocket757]

Civil war, a heavy, bloody event.
Some excelled there, on both sides.
It must be admitted.
While Kolchak, in addition to actions, the struggle against the Soviet power, has achievements in the field of geographical research, then for others there is only a trace of grief and hatred.
Can it be that people themselves do not know about that, will not figure it out and will not appreciate it as it should. No need to humiliate our people.

[Gardamir]

Who cares if Chikatila was an exemplary child.
You are trying to return us to the fact that we must forget about the Mannerheim concentration camps, because he was a Russian officer.
And something the current government is not looking for virtues in the communists of the past.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Gardamir

..... And something the current government is not looking for virtues in the communists of the past.

Having inflicted demographic, territorial, and economic damage on the country, comparable to defeat in the war, the current government is trying to identify shortcomings and mistakes in the actions of the previous one. How else to be? Do you want to hide your crimes ---- transfer them to another.

[Lamata]

So I would go about my business, science. fleet management, and then climbed into politics. To incite people against themselves who did not support the Reds in large numbers.

[mmaxx]

This is right. There is nothing for warriors in politics to do. This is Kolchak and an example. The principle of unquestioning obedience leads to this.
Here you also need to understand that with the rarity of the population in Siberia, all this was very clear to people.
The same thing happened in the European part of Russia. Only in relative numbers less. The terrible thing is civil war. Every bastard was full of from all sides.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Hunter 2

In fairness, it should be noted that Kolchak A.V. was a rather famous explorer of the Arctic, discovered and described New geographical objects, including the New Islands, and clarified the coastline. Thanks to the information collected by the Kolchak Expedition, a map of the coasts of Taimyr was compiled. His name in 1901 was named Island in the Taimyr Bay, in 1939 it was renamed Rastorguev Island. At the initiative of the Russian Geographical Society, in 2005 the island was returned the name of Kolchak.
This does not remove the responsibility for the atrocities that took place in Siberia and the Far East during his reign, but the author would not hurt to reveal this part of Kolchak’s life.

So he caved in under the Masters of Piccadilly, went against the hyperetnos for Wall Street!

[Alex 2020]

Oh, they do not like the truth in VO. For the truth, immediately minus. Are you afraid of the truth? If everything is so, It's a story and there's no getting around it! And rewrite history .. do not respect yourself, your homeland. It was, and there's no getting around it. And flirting with the West has not brought anyone to good. There are plenty of examples both in the world and in the post-Soviet space.

[Chersky]

Oh, they do not like the truth in VO. For the truth, immediately minus.

All is correct. I will not write here, many may be offended, but there is a very famous expression about the majority opinion from Edgar Allan Poe)

[Alex 2020]

Yes, I am familiar with this expression))

[Gardamir]

What is your truth? Do you agree that under the leadership of JV Stalin, the Soviet Union won the war? Do you agree that Beria was a leader from God, or is this truth you do not need?

[Nonna]

Nedomonarchists and defenders of the current liberal Kolchakites, those who rags cover the Mausoleum on Victory Day and kill all those who consider the inglorious death of a traitor to Russian land to be completely deserved, are now raiding.

[ssergey1978]

Why inglorious? Admiral Kolchak Hero of Russia, patriot. His death inscribed his name in immortality.

[Gardamir]

How many of their heroes are in this row. Gorbachev, Yeltsin ...

[ssergey1978]

Stupidity, why write?

[Gardamir]

How is the traitor Kolchak different from the traitor Gorbachev?

[ssergey1978]

Probably merit to the fatherland as an admiral, scientist, fighter with the Communists. Few?

[fuxila]

Well, at least the fact that one is a communist, and the second is anti-communist, which is essential. Well, not to mention everything else: height, weight and everything else ....

[mmaxx]

Why a traitor? He sat calmly in the West. Could continue to sit. I went to Russia and was shot. Traitors don't do that. Regardless of the results of its activities.

[mmaxx]

From the point of view of Lenin, Kolchak's merit in establishing Soviet power in Siberia is undeniable. Since it (Sov. Power), then nafig nobody needed. This must be admitted to at least someone.

[Gardamir]

Kolchak's merit in the establishment of Soviet power

In modern language, black PR.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Gardamir

How many of their heroes are in this row. Gorbachev, Yeltsin ...

Yakovlev, the foreman of the disaster forgotten ..... because he fought, was wounded ....

[Lamata]

His last goji and deed is not at all heroic

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Gentlemen, comrades Bolsheviks: no one, none of you dare to deny that: legally, the Bolsheviks and others like him were agents of influence of Germany and this is to say the least, but according to the mind and laws of war they had to be shot immediately upon arrival from Germany, as traitors and spies, which Stalin would have done with them if he had been in power. Kolchak was and remains independent of your desires: an excellent officer, a hero of the Great War, a competent mine specialist, whose achievements were used by the Navy in the Great Patriotic War. In addition, he was and remains an explorer of the Arctic, and again his achievements are still relevant . I know that they will begin to minus me now, but it’s disgusting to read, to see how the honor of the officer is being discredited without any hint of objectivity.

[apro]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

legally the Bolsheviks and others like him were agents of influence of Germany

In more detail ... from what part of Germany did the Bolsheviks come? How much did they receive for their services to the 2nd Reich?

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Their arrival from Europe was organized with German money. So congratulations: under I.V. You would also be sent to the wall. Learn the story.

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

Their arrival from Europe was organized with German money.

I hope you can provide evidence of this, other than the OBS. And then, you see, it’s somehow ugly, urging others to study history, to bring the slogans of anti-Bolshevik propaganda, of those times, as an objective fact.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Read the history book. You can Soviet.

[mat-vey]

And what "facts" can he cite? The department of Goebbels received all the archives of Germany, but could not dig up anything ... and then home-grown historians ...

[Han Tengri]

So I am about the same!

[mat-vey]

No, I would have looked at the "facts"))))

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Not etymology not clear to you, but set out in a textbook on the history of the USSR or Russia. Seek and find

[Han Tengri]

You are apparently confusing the Soviet textbook on the history of the USSR with the ROVS propaganda.

[Lamata]

No, it’s you who study history, preferably not Fomenko. Well, not Radzinsky

[mat-vey]

"legally, the Bolsheviks and others like him were agents of German influence, and that's putting it mildly" - your fairy tale smelled of mothballs ..

[fighter angel]

The boulder crunches themselves came up with this tale in the 90s ...

[mat-vey]

These tales about the "German spy" have been told for 100 years ..

[Lamata]

This is not a fairy tale but sabotage and slander.

[mat-vey]

A fairy tale, this is because the result of literary creation does not have a real basis ...

[Aviator_]

If this "explorer of the Arctic" would stop at this, and would not go into the service of the Entente, he would remain a respected person. However, he decided to become a "condottieri", and became one. On deeds and merit - went to the Angara in the direction of the subject of his research. It was necessary to be able to - so to restore the population of all Siberia, where the land issue has never been acute, as in central and southern Russia, that is, the slogan "Land for the peasants" did not particularly work here, so with his very stupid actions he prepared his own collapse. And the sculptor Klykov performed the next order, well, what demand from Klykov - they will pay, he will sculpt Chikatilo too. Pensive.

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

And the sculptor Klykov executed another order, well, what kind of demand from Klykov - they will pay, he sculpts Chikatilo. Pensive.

About V.M. Klykov, you certainly said in a huff.

[Aviator_]

Well, maybe he won’t sculpt Chikatilo, (although this is not obvious), but in his works the inexcusable sloppy negligence often slips. So in Sarov, he created a monument to a very respected man - Seraphim of Sarov, who, for some reason, stands in clothes smelled like a woman. Unfortunately, I did not think to take a picture.

[bober1982]

Quote: Aviator_

Well, maybe Chikatilo will not sculpt it (although this is not obvious),

And thanks for that.
Vyacheslav Mikhailovich died in 2006. what can he.? ....sculptas you put it ....although this is not obvious (?), from the afterlife, or something.

Quote: Aviator_

for some reason standing in clothes smelled like a woman

??

[Aviator_]

Here

That he died, I know. Well, what he did is worth it. Photo from the Internet.

[rocket757]

Standard ... I remember here, I don’t remember there, so it wasn’t.
But the story so happened that Mausoleum, this is our story, Lenin, Stalin are the great leaders of the proletariat and the Soviet people. This is also our story and no one from outside is allowed to teach us!
And we would learn to live together in harmony and peace, this is a feasible task, we just need to accept and maintain everything as it was, is, then we will have something to pass on to our descendants.

[Reptiloid]

Without Lenin and Stalin, our country would not exist now at all.
They would feed the West, as in the 90s, that's all.
Greetings Victor!

[rocket757]

Dmitriy I welcome you.
One must take care of history and accept it as it was, in fact.
Guessing what would have happened if .... it’s pointless. We have enough fortunetellers, dreamers, let them, for that she is fantastic literature.
All that we keep, we do not give and do not allow to distort the truth. That's all.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: rocket757

....... Guessing what would have happened if .... was pointless. We have enough fortunetellers, dreamers, let them, for that she is fantastic literature. All that we keep, we do not give and do not allow to distort the truth. That's all.

You see, Victor, I’m talking about my beliefs, I’m not guessing, for me it’s completely clear and there are reasons for this. They are known to many, there are textbooks, there are stories on the net, articles were on VO about this
About storage and distortion. Here you are, Victor, also forum-like-minded members of the forum keep, try to keep, but this is a household level. And there are more opportunities to spit in the past from the screen, at least, TV, at least on the network, at least a movie is great to shoot and dirtied. Unequal opportunities.

[rocket757]

My task is that my wards know the truth, this is a plus to the fact that I just teach them to work with their heads and not be a stupid consumer of what they are trying to "pour" into it from all sides. They will learn to think, get a full basis of knowledge, and then figure out what and how.
Here are the films passed, controversial, if you read everything that is written about them ... watched "T 34", so I charged them all "Skylark". the same with all the rest ... when the detector receiver was explaining to them, he told about the epic with the "Italia" airship and about much more. When we talk about missiles, we start with Tsiolkovsky, about Von Braun too, when about airplanes, we start from the very first, and then Tupolev and Sikorsky, who designed "Ilya Muromets" ... you can't castrate history !!!
This must be done, otherwise the boys will be completely confused ...
In general, I think so, but the showdown, who was right in the Civil, who is wrong .... there were those who committed crimes on both sides, and there were those who fought for their beliefs ... they were all citizens of the Russian Empire, that’s all.
It is time to come to unity and revive, now, the former greatness of the country.

[Reptiloid]

Your charges, Victor ---- it's a whole different conversation They are --- not a small copy of adults, this is a completely different world, not yet having their own experience in many ways, children, with them otherwise necessary, I’m not your adviser!
I remembered the children who defended the USSR; the stories of Sofia Milyutinskaya were here before.
How were they brought up that they took upon themselves the responsibility to defend their homeland?
My grandfather at 16 left for the Second World War with a certificate from the Village Council that he was 25 .....
And quite adult deputies, officials now do not want any responsibility ----- the state should not ..... ????? Thoughts aside ....

[rocket757]

Have you read how the boys of JUNCER, and the young ladies of the noblewoman, were eager to sacrifice their life for their homeland? Ali didn’t tell you about that?
You can’t ruin the story, it’s just dangerous.
To our young, and even the previous generation, why are you so brainwashed? Because they know the story one-sidedly, and it seems that I can not answer anything justified charges. And those who will fool their heads are by no means fools and even know our history !!! better than ours, many ....
In general, something like this.

[Reptiloid]

About the boys junkers and young ladies ---- did not read. But, when there was an article by A. Oleinikov about children-heroes in 1MB ---- read! But for some reason, mostly about peasant children! It was written
I later found it in a search engine in another magazine about other children. And all --- not from a rich environment. And why it was ---- it means that such work was carried out, you know, Victor, there was a patriotic rise on the eve and at the beginning of 1MB at all levels and believed (erroneously) that 3-4 months and the war would end with a victory for RI. Well, as a last resort, six months

[rocket757]

The one-sided coverage of the history of honor does nothing to anyone, in my opinion. It’s also harmful.
I do not beg anyone’s merits, I believe that everything that shows the courage, dignity, and greatness of our people, regardless of who they were, should be included in history.

[Reptiloid]

And so I read all the articles by A. Oleinikov about 1MB. The truth about the Civil War, although I went through school and read books, I somehow represented it fragmentarily. But I prepared myself. I made a selection of other books and stories, and now I’ll read it at a different level. VO helps a lot in this

[rocket757]

In Leningrad, the military institute had an extensive library. The fund had a lot of works, which few could still be read!
When I left, librarians even handed me a prize-present. I alone, they said, read more than the rest of the company .....
In the barracks, they drove me away from the crosswords in the seam .... prevented them from thinking whether they were hanging.

[Reptiloid]

Yes, it's cool!

Quote: rocket757

In Leningrad, the military institute had an extensive library. The fund had a lot of works, which few could still be read!
When I left, librarians even handed me a prize-present. I alone, they said, read more than the rest of the company ...

Well, wards probably love to read? We have relatives and friends they read a lot of paper books, although they manage to do it online .....

[rocket757]

Children are very different, especially since a lot depends on their parents. I have the opportunity to correct, direct in the right direction, interest! If parents do not make efforts in the right direction, to support the child in his endeavors, it turns out not always and everyone is good.
However, this did not happen often, they are full of idiots and they do not remain, so I consider my "work" quite successful.

[karabass]

So do you work as a teacher? And maybe in the cadet class? I thought that you work as a manager after retirement, in chemistry

[rocket757]

I already wrote that I study with teenagers on my own initiative. It happened. He trained his boys, made model airplanes and staged a demonstration performance on the site in the club. Children, parents were interested in it .... this is how the Crazy Hands club appeared. Our village is not big, there is a club, the administration helped with the premises. Everyone has children, and it is wiser to study in such a club than to sit at computers all the free time.
Everything can be done, the main thing is to start.
I work, while, in chemical production, the field of IT support ....

[Reptiloid]

welcome Victor ! Yes, aircraft modeling in the USSR immediately began to develop. The dream of flying, of space!

[rocket757]

Hi Dmitry
Now available, for everyone, a lot.
The main thing is to get interested, start doing, and you can order and buy the necessary.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: rocket757

... The main thing is to get interested, start doing as well.

Good luck to you and all your wards!

[nickname7]

The Chinese and Japanese have this approach, the historical process is continuous and consists of black and light, as well as brown stripes, it must be perceived holistically.

[Chersky]

It is useless to explain it to them. And they are not "Bolsheviks", they are just "the majority"

[Gardamir]

Fun Bolsheviks agents of influence of Germany, and the hero submitted to Britain. Despite the fact that Kolchak is in fact an Englishman, you modestly kept silent. But if you decide to judge others, be honest yourself.

[nickname7]

legally the Bolsheviks and others like him were agents of influence of Germany

Abroad supported and now supports any opposition. It is legally known that the Bolsheviks swore allegiance to one country in Russia. Power - councils of deputies, were appointed not by Germany, but by the people. Unlike Kolchak, who was looking for a master and swore allegiance to George.

Kolchak was and remains independent of your desires: an excellent officer,

Renome, you need to support all life, going against the people, he crossed out his merits.
As a strategist, he 0, squandered irreplaceable resources and ended up with a broken trough.

[mmaxx]

Yes, that's enough about the agents of Germany. Already not even funny.

[alekc75]

in the documentary "Kolchak's gold" a little different, the author has a lot of cliches all enemies and the Bolsheviks are good

[bober1982]

Enlisting the White Guards and Kolchak himself as a liberal, this is of course something, as Kolchak is called the idol of liberal Russia.
This is called rewriting history, which the author of the article does.

[Gardamir]

Well, you call the democrats Yeltsin a communist.
But you're right. Kolchak is not a liberal, rather a terrorist.

[bober1982]

Quote: Gardamir

Kolchak is not a liberal

I say the same thing.
Hence the conclusion - the article itself, complete zilch.

[Stirbjorn]

The author, unpretentiously branded Olgovich and other guards, agents of the West, although they themselves like to throw this term

[Ezekiel 25-17]

And one more thing: the article and comments on it only say that the Civil War is not over, though only in our hearts, but how fragile everything is ... How much hatred ...

[DNS-a42]

The farm laborers do not want to reconcile with the magnates, what to do.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Not farm laborers, not German shot spies.

[DNS-a42]

Quite a natural course of events. For capitalist Russia, Soviet heroes are not suitable, so they are pumping new "heroes", bourgeois ones.

[bober1982]

Quote: DNS-a42

For capitalist Russia, Soviet heroes are not suitable, so they are pumping new "heroes", bourgeois ones.

The confusion with the heroes in capitalist Russia is complete, one can agree.
In 1991, the power was seized by the uninhabited Trotskyists, it was proved by the comrades themselves, with foam at the mouth, but these same Trotskyite disadvantages as their liberal (?) Heroes put forward the liberal (?) Kolchak, Krasnov (by the way, this Jew hated the Jews), etc. figures of the White movement. You can get confused.

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Kolchak is a hero of Russia.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: DNS-a42

Quite a natural course of events. For capitalist Russia, Soviet heroes are not suitable, so they are pumping new "heroes", bourgeois ones.

If you recall the Soviet heroes too often, there will be frequent comparisons of the current life and the then, current place of Russia in the world, and then the significance of the USSR. Well, the leadership --- then and now they will compare, be sure

[Oleg1]

According to official documents, for only six months of his reign, the Supreme Ruler Kolchak activated 41 concentration camps and built 4 more hastily.

To this should be added the concentration camps located in the territory controlled by the so-called Komuch, as well as the Regional Government of the Perm province, where the Cadets dominated.

In total, whites drove almost a million (914) people into concentration camps who rejected the restoration of pre-revolutionary orders. About 178 thousand people languishing in white Siberia must be added to this.

More than 520 thousand prisoners were stolen by the regime from slave labor, which was almost unpaid, in enterprises and in agriculture. The headquarters of the Siberian army compiled a table of the location of concentration camps from the Urals to Primorye, indicating the number of prisoners of war in them. In fact, the entire territory of the country has turned into a continuous concentration camp.
Something like this...

[Chersky]

There was "white terror" and there was "red". This does not mean that Kolchak is a Western agent. The times were cruel. "White chops red, Red chop white." (C)
Some rush to the other extreme, blaming Stalin for the tens of millions of victims. Also a western Naimian?)))

[iouris]

Quote: Chersky

There was "white terror" and there was "red". This does not mean that Kolchak is a Western agent.

If this is so, then the same “West” won, and all without exception were “Western agents”. "White" (democrats) overthrew the tsar, and therefore multiplied by zero the empire and themselves. The Reds came. The Reds destroyed the Whites, but in the end they multiplied the huge state by zero. Do you remember whom the former chief of the current minister, Indel, asked to give directives about what national interests the Russian Federation has?

[karabass]

41 camp? amazing! What for? It was easier to shoot! Although who knows, the Soviet government also did not shoot everyone, someone had to work as slaves in the Gulag. Free and starving. In white gloves it was impossible to build socialism!

[iouris]

Kolchak is a hero of Russia, which has been "lost", they are looking for it, but cannot find it. Probably, they are not looking there, but time is running out.

[karabass]

And they will not find!

[tacet]

"Why is Kolchak, an agent of the West, turned into a hero and martyr of Russia." For the same reasons that the "agent of Kaiser's Germany Ulyanov" is being glorified - to create as many conflict situations within the country as possible.

[mat-vey]

"" Agent of Kaiser's Germany Ulyanov "- are you serious, or a joke of humor?

[Markgraf]

Kolchak's personality is like two sides of the same coin. The back, dark side, is that he tainted himself with the events of the Civil War. But then there was such a time: either you or you ... that's what it is and the Civil War ... Obverse: this is an outstanding naval officer. Participant of the Port Arthur defense, Makarov's associate in the Ice campaigns on the Ermak. Commander of the best formation of the Tsar's fleet - "Mine Division" .... One of the best commanders of the Black Sea Fleet. Under him, the fleet got up from its knees, just as the 1st Pacific squadron took off in its time under Makarov ...

[fighter angel]

Aha, and Mannerheim is also a "brilliant" tsarist officer, and then the commander of an army that shelled Leningrad and starved it! On his conscience are thousands of Leningraders who died of hunger.
Then, according to you, Vlasov is also a "promising" Soviet general, one of the participants in the counterattack near Moscow, only a "slightly" traitor, who surrendered to the enemy and went over to his side.
So does it work?
You end up with this approach.
I understand that you were completely riddled, but THINKING NEED A HEAD!
And if a person betrayed, went over to the side of the enemy, or became a war criminal, all his previous merits definitely went nowhere.
Whoever he is before betrayal and crime!
And the solution here is very simple: NAME THINGS BY YOUR NAMES!
Black is black and white is white! There is no "Black, but on the other hand a little White", and "White, but a little Black in places".
A simple example.
When a murderer / rapist / sadist is judged by several people, and it is proved, you really want to listen to his description from the place of work / study?
Even if he is a great specialist and a wonderful employee?
Would you like to hear about how great a family man he is, and how he walks with his children every weekend?
I’m sure not.
Think about that, not the "sides of the coin".

[karabass]

And Stalin Mannerheim respected! He did not consider him a criminal! Personally deleted from the list of war criminals!

[mmaxx]

No need to compare Kolchak and Mennerheim. Kolchak was shot in the Civil War. On this his activity ended.

[KVU-NSVD]

How can you judge Kolchak in particular and the white movement in general? They fought for their peace and against incomprehensible people who came to power in Petrograd. They lost and Russia nevertheless remained alive and great. It is a pity for those who died and "rotted" in emigration .. but sometimes .. not lucky .. fell under the roller of history. They are also the history and heritage of our genetic code (although there were a lot of animals in human form, there were no fewer of them in the Reds) What to do - a civil war to the death .. there are winners, but no wrong ones ..

[karabass]

Chet confused you! Fried eggs and the gift of God! Those who are emigrants and vice versa are lucky! Remained alive and well, like their families! Sorry for starving in the Gulag! Of the remaining! Believers of Soviet Power

[Looking for]

Quote: Ezekiel 25-17

Moreover, no one denies that the Sovereign was weak.

And "Sovereign .." then everything is clear with you. Here is only for whom "sovereign". And for someone - "Judas"

[Fishery]

Well, probably because capitalism won)))

[dgonni]

I looked at the title of the article. I thought samsons. Not reading scrolled to the tip. Like samsons. I didn’t even read for state agents.

[samarin1969]

After the collapse of the USSR and the victory of the liberals, who are considered the heirs of the White movement, the creeping rehabilitation of the enemies of the Red Army and Soviet power began. Denikin, Wrangel, Mannerheim, Kolchak and other enemies of Soviet Russia became the "heroes" of the new Russia.

A very controversial idea of ​​the author. Putin celebrates the 100th anniversary of the Red Army with official symbols. (Svyatoslav, Kutuzov and Suvorov do not receive such a level!) Official history is still interpreted as a class struggle, not a struggle of peoples. There are 100 times more monuments and streets to the leaders of the revolution than to the leaders of the White movement. Films are being made about Chapaev and others. Where did the author see the "white liberals" ?? .... And where does Mannerheim? ...

Contemporary Russian liberalism and the communist world are equally alien to the thousand-year-old Russian history. 1917 turned Russians into "people without a state." Better "unfair" Russia than the Soviet Golem or "Chimera" of the 2000s. But this is a question of values, not a "war of facts": who is closer to what. It's pointless to argue.

ps One "red-white" dispute has already led to the collapse of one strong power in 1795.

[karabass]

Bravo! The best comment on the article! I can't give you a plus because of my statement about Greta, I picked up a hundred minuses. MY REGARDS!

[Glennie]

In short:


Alexander Vasilievich Kolchak was born on November 4, 1874 in St. Petersburg. His father, Vasily Ivanovich, was a hero of the defense of Sevastopol during the Crimean War. Continuing family traditions, 16-year-old Alexander, after graduating from high school, entered the Naval Cadet Corps, where he successfully studied for six years. When leaving the corps, he was promoted to midshipman.

The first access to the sea occurred in 1890. The first ship of his was the armored frigate "Prince Pozharsky." Subsequently, his training ships became the Rurik and the Cruiser. After studying, Kolchak served in the Pacific Ocean.
Polar explorer

In January 1900, Alexander Vasilievich was invited to participate in the polar expedition by Baron E. Toll. The expedition was faced with the task of exploring unknown areas of the Arctic Ocean and conducting a search for the legendary Sannikov Land. Here Kolchak proved himself an energetic and active officer. He was even recognized as the best expedition officer.

As a result, several members of the expedition, along with Baron Toll, went missing. Kolchak petitioned for the continuation of the expedition in order to find the members of the team E. Toll. He managed to find traces of the missing expedition, but its surviving members were gone.

According to the results of the work, Kolchak was awarded the order and was elected a member of the Russian Geographical Society.
In military service

With the outbreak of the Russo-Japanese War, Kolchak transferred from the Academy of Sciences to the Naval War Department. In the Pacific, he served under the leadership of Admiral S. O. Makarov and commanded the destroyer Angry. For heroism and courage, he was awarded a gold saber and a silver medal.

In World War I, Alexander Vasilievich commanded the Mine Division of the Baltic Fleet. Courage and resourcefulness were the hallmark of the admiral. In 1916, Nicholas II appointed Kolchak the commander of the Black Sea Fleet. The main task of the fleet was to clear the sea of ​​enemy warships. This task has been successfully completed. The February Revolution prevented the fulfillment of other strategic tasks. In June 1917, Kolchak gave up command of the Black Sea Fleet.
Civil war and the supreme ruler of Russia

After the resignation, Kolchak returned to Petrograd. The interim government sent him, as the leading expert in the fight against submarines, at the disposal of the Allies. First Kolchak arrived in England, and then to America.

In September 1918, he again found himself on Russian soil in Vladivostok, and on October 13, 1918 in Omsk, he joined the general command of volunteer armies in the east of the country. Kolchak led the 150th army, the purpose of which was to unite with the army of A.I. Denikin and march on Moscow. The numerical superiority of the Red Army did not allow these plans to be realized. January 15, 1920 Kolchak was arrested and ended up in Irkutsk prison.

The investigation was conducted by the Extraordinary Commission. Eyewitness accounts and investigation documents show that the admiral was courageous and dignified during interrogations. On February 7, 1920, the admiral was shot, and his body was thrown into the hole.

[RoTTor]

A capable and courageous polar explorer, a promising scientist.
Sensible and brave naval officer.
The first outside the capital to change the oath.
The zero politician, "got into the wrong sled," became an English puppet, for which he paid.
--------------------------
English uniform
Shoulder strap french
Japanese tobacco,
Omsk ruler.

Chorus:

Oh, my scumbag
American,
There will be no money
I'll take it for sale!

The uniform has been torn down
Epaulet fell
Tobacco smoked,
The ruler was washed away.

Omsk occupied
Irkutsk taken away
And with a scumbag
Kolchak was taken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hrj8X-PMWA

[Durman_54]

The German agent Ulyanov was turned into a hero and a martyr. Why is Kolchak worse?

[2112vda]

He worked in the department with a woman who talked about the fact that in Siberia people remembered what Kolchak was doing.
And what to be surprised. The church at all times was the largest feudal lord, and so they extol the king-father and his leader. I won’t be surprised if we have serfs again,

[ser56]

Quote: 2112vda

a woman who talked about the fact that in Siberia people remembered what Kolchak was doing.

but she did not tell what the same Gaidar was doing in Siberia? Which then drank in black? Or about collectivization, when 4,5 million people were robbed and 2 million were exiled?

[ser56]

Quote: 2112vda

we will again have serfs,

I recall that serf slavery in Russia was abolished in 1861 by Emperor Alexander 2, and the Bolsheviks reinstated in 1930 in the form of collective farms, and then in 1940 the workers were banned from changing their jobs ...

[1536]

To educate frank losers and half-slave servants, "knowing their place", who can only obey the owner, not have their own opinion and voice, not raise their eyes to the stars - this is the main task. Hence all these memories of the enemies of Soviet power. This is only a small part of the "general line". While the working people are barely making ends meet, these libertines, and you can’t call them otherwise, are again trying to fool them and put them to the slaughter of brutal "partners". If it is not possible to unleash a civil war, it is not possible to organize a third world war, then we must act on the sly. You look, the result will be. Their name is legion.

[ser56]

Quote: 1536

which can only obey the owner, not have an opinion and voice, not raise their eyes to the stars - this is the main task.

it is explicitly spelled out in the Communist manifesto ...

Quote: 1536

While the working people are barely making ends meet,

there was no such famine as during the Soviet era (in 1921, 1931, 1946) in Russia for a very long time, even during WW1 there was no famine, although there were problems in large cities ...

[ser56]

"The problem is that Kolchak was an enemy of the people and a mercenary of foreign capital."
what nonsense, the author has read a Short Course ...
"They chose the camp of the capitalists, the big bourgeoisie, big capital, foreign predators who were tearing Russia apart."
To the author a deuce for blatant illiteracy ... the whites were for the United and indivisible Russia!
It was the Bolsheviks, led by the VIL, who began to divide Russia - at first they gave Finland independence to the Vyborg province, then they gave the Germans large territories — Ukraine, part of Belarus, Poland, Lithuania and Latvia — to the Germans in the bawdy Brest world, then they gave Estonia the narva and the Pytalovsky region, and they gave part to Turkey Armenia, etc.
"Alexander Kolchak, without a doubt, was a protege of the West. He was assigned to 'save' Russia in London and Washington." Note that Lenin was taken in a sealed carriage through the territory of the enemy during the war, and the "condonier" Kolchak continued to fight the enemy ... It was not safe for him to remain in Russia - to remind the fate of Admiral Nepenin? or capraz Shchastny who saved ships on an ice campaign ...
". The West generously supplied the Kolchak regime with weapons, for which it received Russian gold."
And why did Germany receive 100 tons of gold from the Bolshevik, then even Estonia?
And let the author ask himself the question - what are the monuments to Lenin in the country for? What did he do this for the country?
And comparable to Kolchak?
So Kolchak: a polar explorer, discoverer of the ice movement, military officer - fought in 2 wars, was awarded orders, then fought in the Civil War for United Russia, was taken prisoner and executed without a reason (during the abolition of the death penalty in the RSFSR), a corpse (or alive?) launched under the ice ...
VIL is an enemy of the Russian statehood and the Russian people, the German agent of influence is a defeatist, campaigned for turning the 1MB into a civilian one of the organizers of the coup in October 1917 and the dispersal of the Constituent Assembly, which resulted in the Civil War, participant in the secession of territories from Russia, etc. d. etc.

[ssergey1978]

Quote: Russian quilted jacket

I explain for the gifted. I'm talking about your statement about payment. Or do you have the notion that this proverb says nothing? Oh yes, there was no Russian at AT

This post, what kind of payment?

[Lieutenant]

Admiral A. V. Kolchak was a patriot of his Motherland, a Russian officer for whom the word "honor" was not an empty set of letters. As for the events of the Civil War, the Bolsheviks committed no less disgusting atrocities against their people. War is war.

[iouris]

Kolchak is the gold reserve of the Russian Empire, which was stolen and divided by the Czechoslovakians, French, Americans and Japanese. This business is so dark that everyone "forgot" about it.