Military Review

How did the Ice Siberian campaign end

58
How did the Ice Siberian campaign end

Hood. movie "Admiral"


Smoot. 1920 year. 100 years ago, in February 1920, the Great Siberian campaign ended. In Transbaikalia, the remnants of the 2nd and 3rd armies of Kolchak made their way. They allied with the forces of ataman Semenov, and a white Far Eastern army was formed in Chita.

Baikal


On February 5-6, 1920, Kolchakites (the remnants of the 2nd and 3rd armies under the command of Wojciechowski and Sakharov) fought stubborn battles on the outskirts of Irkutsk. On February 7 they broke through to the city itself, took the Innokentyevskaya station near Irkutsk (rich military warehouses were seized here) and were ready to advance further. However, after the news of the death of Kolchak and the ultimatum of the Czechoslovakians (the Czechs categorically demanded not to occupy the Glasgow suburb that dominated the city), the commander of the white forces, General Wojciechowski, gave the order to go around the city from the south and break through to Lake Baikal. At the forefront was the Izhevsk division. A rearguard was left in Innokentyevskaya to demonstrate the threat of continuing the assault on Irkutsk.

On February 9, 1920, the advanced forces of the Kappelevites came to Baikal near the village of Listvennichny, where the Angara flows into the lake. The White Guards stopped in a large and rich village for a day's rest. At the same time, the white rearguard was leaving Irkutsk with battles. Despite access to Transbaikalia, the situation was alarming for whites. There was no exact data. Only rumors that the Mysovaya station on the other side of Lake Baikal was under the control of Japanese troops. But the Reds attacked there too. Where the chieftain Semyonov and his troops were unknown. It was impossible to stay. The enemy could soon press the White Guards to the lake and finish off.

The situation was also unclear with the road. Previously, they traveled from Listvenichny or Goloustnoye, 40-45 miles on ice, but now they have stopped. It’s dangerous, and the previous economic ties were cut off. White had to go first, grope and pave the way. By evening, the troops of the 2nd Army began to stay in Listvennichnoe, parts of the 3rd Army of Sakharov moved further to Goloustoy. This is about 10 miles on the ice of Lake Baikal.

Baikal is a whole "sea". In winter, its surface fetters ice. But it happens that the lake is worried, the ice breaks, gives deep cracks that sometimes stretch for kilometers. Therefore, the campaign through Lake Baikal was a new ordeal for the White Guards. At night we got to Goloustnoye, a small coastal village. February 11 Kolchak moved across the lake. It was a long string of foot, horse and sleigh. The transition was difficult. Only in places there was snow, the icy desert prevailed. It was very difficult for horses with ordinary horseshoes. They glided and stumbled on ice. This exhausted them greatly, quickly deprived of strength. Weak animals fell. By the end of the day, the entire path was littered with the corpses of horses. Riding all the time in a sleigh was hard, frost and a piercing wind turned a person into an ice. I had to get off the sled, go and run to warm up. We moved slowly, with stops. Ahead were conductors, Baikal fishermen who determined the strength of ice, carefully paved the way, avoided cracks.

White General K. Sakharov recalled:

“It is difficult to give a real picture of those days - it is too unusual ... But imagine, for a minute, in the midst of your usual life in a warm environment, imagine - thousands of miles of Siberian age-old space; the deaf taiga where a man’s foot didn’t go, wild mountains with hard-to-reach slopes, huge rivers bound by ice, two arshins deep snow, frost cracking ... And imagine thousands of Russian people walking day after day through these deep boundless snows; whole months, day after day, in an atmosphere of terrible cruelty and deprivation. And there is at every step the danger of fratricidal war. ... And complete suspense. Where is the end? What will happen next? Baikal with its icy road is the apotheosis of the entire Ice Camp. The White Army marched across the lake-sea, not knowing that it was waiting for her on the other side, waiting for the enemy there ... "


To Chita


On the evening of February 11, the vanguard of the White Army left for Mysova station. On average, the White Guard units crossed the lake in 12 hours. In Mysovaya was a Japanese detachment. Kolchakites learned that the ataman Semenov with his 6th East Siberian Corps is holding fast in Transbaikalia. “By the decree of Kolchak of January 4, 1920, Semenov was transferred (before receiving instructions from Denikin appointed by the Supreme Ruler of Russia)“ the entire completeness of military and civil power throughout the territory of the Russian Eastern Outskirts, united by the Russian supreme authority ”. On January 16, Semyonov announced in Chita the establishment of the government of the Russian Eastern Outskirts, led by cadet S. A. Taskin. But after the uprising in Vladivostok, under the rule of the chieftain, behind whom the Japanese stood, only Transbaikalia remained. Transbaikalia for the period from January to November 1920 was the last stronghold of whites in Siberia.

For several days, all the White Guards crossed Baikal. In total, the lake passed to 30-35 thousand people. The White Guards received supplies - several wagons with food and warm clothes. Some of the sick, wounded, as well as women and children, were taken by rail to Chita. The troops of the 3rd and 2nd army moved to the Verkhneudinsk region (since 1934 - Ulan-Ude). Along the way, the White Guards clashed with the Red Partisans. They immediately captured the village of Kabanie, the former center of the Red Partisans, and opened the way to Verkhneudinsk. Here stood a Japanese team led by Major General Agatha.

In general, the Japanese troops were a real imperial army, with high discipline, order and combat readiness. The Japanese division located in this area had 12-14 thousand bayonets and could easily stop the advance of the Red Army. However, the Japanese, like the Bolsheviks, did not want a direct clash and behaved very carefully with each other. The Japanese did not succumb to the persuasion of the Directory, the Omsk government of Kolchak, and the chieftain Semyonov. On the one hand, Japan needed a buffer in Siberia in the person of Kolchak and Semenov to cover its possessions in Manchuria and Korea. It took time to gain a foothold in the Far East. Therefore, the Japanese were the best in relation to the Kolchakites, or, as they were now called, the Kappelites. On the other hand, the Japanese were crushed by competitors - the British, Americans and French. They demanded that Japan withdraw troops from Siberia and not help the White Guards. The masters of the West did not want the clever Japanese to seize the eastern part of Russia, since this did not work out for themselves under the guise of Czech bayonets.

Parts of the 3rd and 2nd armies were reduced to corps. The corps was reduced to divisions, divisions into regiments, excessive headquarters and institutions were liquidated. After a week of rest, the Kappelites advanced to Chita in marching order. A part of the wounded and sick, and the Ufa division (the former Ufa corps) were taken out by rail. The remaining units were promised trains from the Petrovsky Plant, 140-150 versts from Verkhneudinsk. The troops moved on a sleigh. The trip was difficult, as there was little snow, most of the terrain was exposed or covered with a thin layer of snow. The area was very rugged, with ravines and hills, dense forest. The troops moved in three groups to facilitate the search for an overnight stay. Settlements, as well as roads were few. At the forefront were Izhevsk and Jaegers, then the Ural Division, dragoons and the Volga cavalry brigade, in the third group - Cossacks, Orenburg and Yenisei. On the way, the vanguard again had to fight the Red Rebels. In Transbaikalia, against the seedlings, patriarchal Old Believers guerrilla. Huntsmen and Izhevsk overturned the enemy.

From Petrovsky Zavod, a large industrial village, they moved in echelons. For the first time in a month and a half after the Krasnoyarsk White Guards got the opportunity to take advantage of the Russian railway, which was occupied by foreigners. There were not enough squadrons only for cavalry: the 1st Cavalry Division and the Cossacks marched along the valley of the Khilok River. The path was difficult - in five days of the march from Petrovsky Zavod to Chita, up to a third of the horsemen fell. The railway was guarded by the Japanese, so the path was relatively calm. In late February - early March 1920, the remnants of Kolchak's army entered Chita.

Based on the remnants of the 2nd and 3rd armies, which were reorganized into corps, and the troops of Semyonov, the Far Eastern Army was created. It included three corps: the 1st Trans-Baikal Corps (Semenovtsy), the 2nd Siberian Corps of General Verzhbitsky and the 3rd Volga Corps of General Molchanov. The supreme commander and head of government was Ataman Semenov. The army was led by General Wojciechowski (from the end of April 1920 - Lokhvitsky). The troops were located in the Chita region, rested, replenished ranks, hoping to launch an offensive in a month with the goal of putting under their control the entire territory from Lake Baikal to the Pacific Ocean.


Military Order for the Great Siberian Campaign of the 1st degree
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1920 year

Battle of Rostov
The disaster of white Odessa
How Slashchev Crimea defended
Dono-Manych battle
The death of the Northern Army Miller
Why Western agent Kolchak is turned into a hero and martyr of Russia
The defeat of the army of Denikin in the battle of Tikhorets
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  1. Slavutich
    Slavutich 27 February 2020 06: 08 New
    +3
    The Japanese did not succumb to the persuasion of the Directory, the Omsk government of Kolchak, and the chieftain Semyonov.

    They wanted to not share with anyone!
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 27 February 2020 08: 29 New
      +7
      There, in general, no one wanted to share with anyone, everyone pulled on themselves. The Japanese simply did not have enough strength alone to resist the British with the Americans. And all of the allies in the Entente were afraid of strengthening the other due to the robbery of Russia, and therefore they watched each other so that the other would not get any more. In general, they are jackals in Siberia jackals.
      Therefore, the Japanese were the best in relation to the Kolchakites, or, as they were now called, the Kappelites. On the other hand, the Japanese were crushed by competitors - the British, Americans and French. They demanded that Japan withdraw troops from Siberia and not help the White Guards. The masters of the West did not want the clever Japanese to seize the eastern part of Russia, since this did not work out for themselves under the guise of Czech bayonets.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 27 February 2020 09: 29 New
        +6
        It’s not good, of course, almost all the same, but I don’t want to sympathize with the Kolchaks. The memory of the atrocities of these warriors is still alive. After all, these ..... Kolchakites fought just like the Germans twenty years later. Robbed, raped, killed.
        However, Kolchak’s atrocities were not original, RUSSIAN people were killed by both nationalists and interventionists.
        It is today those who moan about the fact that * this is the same RUSSIAN people .... *. But these figures did not want to remember that they were RUSSIAN atrocities ... and then who went to serve the Germans and the Germans to the Germans.
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 27 February 2020 09: 43 New
          +4
          Vasily50 (Dmitry)
          It’s not good, of course, but almost people
          That's it, that ALMOST! I do not understand how these animals can be justified? Kolchak’s atrocities against the civilian population, and far from all of them took the Soviet power, can not be justified. In fact, it was the bestial attitude of whites and their accomplices of white whales, shavers, amersos, yapes and others towards the civilian population that led to the fact that most of the population switched to the side of the reds.
          Yes, and the Reds themselves were not "white and fluffy" and there were lovers of robbery in their ranks, but in the end the Reds in their ranks eradicated this infection. By the end of the civil war, there were no longer those scattered detachments in the RKKA councils, and even just outright gangs, it was already an combat-ready army welded together by discipline, which ultimately drove all this white-bellied scum from our land.
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 27 February 2020 16: 20 New
            +3
            An eyewitness account: “When the Reds arrived, it was clear that this was the army, of course, someone was in patches, and were tattered, but all in military uniform. The order is well organized - each soldier knew his job, discipline was. And white is some kind of rabble, a crowd. Some are dressed in what: some are in uniform, some are almost in rags, and some are almost in sable fur coats. No organization, discipline — they probably didn’t know such a word. And any, even a small, detachment is coming - full carts of the loot drag. Not an army - a gang. "
            1. Alexander Suvorov
              Alexander Suvorov 27 February 2020 16: 40 New
              +5
              So the whites were essentially one big gang. What did they defend, what did they fight for, what sacred goals did they set for themselves? And everything is simple, they defended their old-regime privileges. They fought for the right to continue to be exploiters, to be parasites on the body of the people. What kind of slogans did they have "for the faith, the king and the fatherland," "for one and indivisible"? Well, let's leave faith aside, it deserves a separate topic; the tsar - they themselves overthrew, the Bolsheviks have nothing to do with it; fatherland - that's not how they fight for the fatherland, selling it with giblets to foreign invaders; for one - so unite, and do not pull each one for yourself; indivisible - so you have already divided it, when Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic states, and the Caucasus broke away from you, not without your own efforts.
              In general, White lost precisely because they were, firstly, a gang of robbers and murderers. And secondly, they had nothing to offer the people except the old fetters. And no matter how the bakers were raging, the truth is that it will remain true, and the falsehood will be false.
            2. cost
              cost 27 February 2020 22: 17 New
              +2
              Sahar Medovich (Igor):An eyewitness account: “When the Reds arrived, it was clear that this was the army, of course, someone was in patches, and were tattered, but all in military uniform. The order is well organized - each soldier knew his job, discipline was. And white is some kind of rabble, a crowd. Some are dressed in what: some are in uniform, some are almost in rags, and some are almost in sable fur coats. No organization, discipline — they probably didn’t know such a word. And any, even a small, detachment is coming - full carts of the loot drag. Not an army - a gang. "

              somehow it does not fit together - some in uniform, some in tatters and full convoys of looted goods repeat
              Is an eyewitness credible? Who is it if not a secret?
              1. Sugar Honeyovich
                Sugar Honeyovich 28 February 2020 13: 10 New
                +1
                An eyewitness is my relative, a peasant woman. There were a lot of whites in their village in the modern Barabinsky district of the Novosibirsk region, and their memory remained bright and well-defined.
                And the rags and full carts fit well - the southern Cossacks had about the same: "A Cossack is returning from a campaign loaded so that neither he nor his horse can be seen. And the next day he goes on a campaign again in one torn Circassian coat."
                Moreover, the looted good does not have to belong to all whites.
    2. gsev
      gsev 8 March 2020 01: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Slavutich
      The Japanese did not succumb to the persuasion of the Directory, the Omsk government of Kolchak, and the chieftain Semyonov.

      They wanted to not share with anyone!

      In 1919, an uprising against the Japanese began in Korea. I will assume that the Japanese military remembered that in the 16th century, Koreans, with the help of the Chinese, were able to regain independence. Therefore, until the complete pacification of Korea, the Japanese refrained from a new war with Russia, even having Semenov's puppet troops in the allies. The Korean people honor the descendant of the Red partisans as the national heroes of Korea.
      For example, similar articles appear in all Korean resources at the beginning of March. Further quote.

      "On March 5, 2020, an extraordinary meeting of the Council was held, at which the President of the RPO" Descendants of the leaders of the fighters for the independence of Korea 1910-1945. " Piskulova Yulia Evgenievna was elected - the great-granddaughter of Lee Vijon and the great-great-granddaughter of Lee Bomjin.

      Lee Vijon (1885 - ...) - diplomat, professional military man, special envoy at the Second Peace Conference in The Hague (1907), one of the leaders of the partisan movement in Primorye. In 1962 he was awarded the Order of Merit in the Construction of the State. The president"
      Lee Bomjin (1852 - 1911) - a diplomat, the first envoy of Korea to Russia, was one of the leaders of the partisan movement in Primorye, at his own expense acquired weapons for the Yiben partisan detachments. In 1995 he was awarded the Order of Merit in the Construction of the State. Independence ”. Piskulova Yu.E. Born in 1969 in Moscow. She graduated from the Faculty of History, Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov, then graduate school of the Diplomatic Academy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation. Piskulova Yu.E. - Orientalist, has a Ph.D. in historical sciences, author of two monographs on the history of Korea and the history of independence fighters, a number of articles and a participant in international conferences. In 2019, she wrote and published the book “Lee Wijon. The unfinished path. "
      Over the past years, she has been a member of the Descent Organization Council. Previously, she took part in the organization’s activities with her mother, Efimova Lyudmila Vasilievna, who was at the origins of the creation of the Public Organization “Descendants of the Leaders of the Korean Independence Fighters 1910-1945.” back in 1995. Almost 20 years, Efimova L.V. She was a member of the organization’s Council, where she headed the Audit Commission.
      Piskulova Yu.E. married, has an adult son. "
  2. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 27 February 2020 06: 33 New
    +3
    And again, the masters of the West, well, Mr. Shamson loves them so much, and ?? laughing
  3. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 27 February 2020 08: 05 New
    +3
    In general, the series of articles is informative, but there are a lot of empathy of the author in relation to whites.
    1. Varyag_0711
      Varyag_0711 27 February 2020 09: 04 New
      +4
      Aviator_ (Sergey)
      but there are too many empathies of the author in relation to white.
      I agree that the author is often thrown from side to side. However, many here on VO have already written that the author of "Samsonov" is, in all likelihood, a kind of collective.
      Firstly, it is painfully prolific, in terms of the number of articles.
      And secondly, it painfully shakes him from article to article, from extreme leftist views, to sympathy for white and from alternativeism (Fomenkovism) to quite adequate and balanced articles.
      1. cost
        cost 27 February 2020 15: 39 New
        +2
        And for me it’s a normal article. An unbiased presentation of historical material, without imposing on readers their personal opinions. And whoever throws here from side to side are commentators laughing
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 27 February 2020 15: 53 New
          +2
          rich (dmitry)
          And whoever throws here from side to side are commentators
          Well, why, commentators here are quite clearly divided into conditionally "white", "red", well, and a little "neutral". At least in the "HISTORY" section and mainly in the topics about the civil war.
          And it only says that the civil war is far from over.
          1. cost
            cost 27 February 2020 18: 43 New
            +3
            Ended up almost a hundred years ago.
            I personally am not interested in evaluating historical events not from the side of modern white adherents, not from the side of modern red adherents. I’m only interested in a true, unbiased, chronological presentation of the story, preferably with maps, diagrams and illustrations, as well as memoirs of participants and eyewitnesses of those events from different sides. This is the only way to fully appreciate that era. A true historian should always be above the battle. And this article by Alexander Samsonov fully corresponds to this. Thank you, Sasha!

            And the fact that what is happening here right now is not a civil war, but a divan-guerrilla war of anonymous under-educations .. We don’t know historical facts. and we don’t want to know, Samsonov’s article on whites means Samsonov’s for whites fellow , Alexander's article about red means Samsonov - "red" winked We don’t want to argue, and we don’t know how to .. One cliche, pluses to its libels, and minus one with them. I have only one caricature of white and red Varyag_0711 (Alexey) He objected, but someone else was not too lazy and anonymously 39 of my comments in a row flashed. By deed, you can immediately see the real man - he will stop the galloping horse, enter the burning hut laughing
            1. gsev
              gsev 8 March 2020 01: 15 New
              0
              Quote: Rich
              And the fact that what is happening here right now is not a civil war, but a divan-guerrilla war of anonymous under-educations .. We don’t know historical facts. and we don’t want to know, Samsonov’s article on whites means Samsonov’s for whites

              Unwillingness to argue, that is, to find arguments in support of one’s innocence, is a sign that historical truth is contrary to the worldview of one who claims to be unwilling to argue.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 29 February 2020 18: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: Aviator_
      In general, the series of articles is informative, but there are a lot of empathy of the author in relation to whites.

      I will say to myself, if I come across printed "" experiences "" to white ----- then I skip them and forget.
      But if I hear on the radio or on TV, then emotions, well, negative negative strongly negative
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 27 February 2020 08: 18 New
    -9
    At the forefront were Izhevsk and Jaegers, then the Ural Division, dragoons and the Volga cavalry brigade, in the third group - Cossacks, Orenburg and Yenisei.

    The color and pride of the Russian army, led by advanced workers, made an unprecedented hike ....
    And stayed free by people.
    Americans and French. They demanded from Japan withdraw troops from Siberia,


    Significant recognition of the fact that it was the "ardent opponents" of the US Bolsheviks ... that liberated the Far East from the Japanese ....
    1. apro
      apro 27 February 2020 08: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      And remained free people

      And what was it expressed in? More specifically, you can ...
      1. Diana Ilyina
        Diana Ilyina 27 February 2020 08: 58 New
        +9
        apro (Oleg Frolov)
        And what was it expressed in? More specifically, you can ...
        Probably, in his opinion, all the means of production would remain with a small stratum of capitalists, and all these "advanced workers and peasants" would continue to work and hunchback on them in order to feed these parasites and their abortions.
        He generally has some kind of twisted consciousness. He calls black white and vice versa. I don’t know what influenced him so much, maybe he was traumatized in childhood, or maybe he was shell-shocked by Ogonyok magazine in the 90s, which is more likely.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 27 February 2020 09: 50 New
          0
          Quote: Diana Ilyina
          or maybe he was shell-shocked by Ogonyok magazine in the 90s, which is more likely.

          Dear Diana, in the 90s the Ogonyok magazine turned into a marginal publication, no one read it, they read it in 1987-1989, then it did not arouse interest among the broad masses.
          Mr. Korotich safely departed for Kiev.
          1. Diana Ilyina
            Diana Ilyina 27 February 2020 10: 03 New
            12
            Nevertheless, this magazine played its negative role, whatever one may say. Some still have brains on their heads. Although, it would seem how much time has passed since then?
            Yes, civil war is a great tragedy of our people, but who is to blame for it? Why now, as in the late 80s and early 90s, they are raising to the shield those who were to blame for this tragedy? Why are they trying to cover up the truth that it was Nicholas II who, with his mediocre politics and connivance, brought the country to a pen? Why do they blame the Bolsheviks for all the troubles, and not the true culprits, the tsar and his entourage, and then the interim government, which finished off what the king did not finish?
            No one is trying to prove that the Bolsheviks were completely nyashki, and the white were completely byak. But let's proceed from the results. What would happen if White prevailed? The final collapse of the country and its looting by the Entente and the Germans. What did the Bolsheviks do? They stopped the collapse, created an army and drove all the lovers away at the expense of others out of the country. What, isn't it?
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 27 February 2020 10: 10 New
              +4
              Quote: Diana Ilyina
              Nevertheless, this magazine played a negative role, whatever one may say

              "Ogonyok", "Look", "Perestroika Searchlight", "Moskovsky Komsomolets", "I Can't Be Silent" - all forces were thrown into the collapse of the country, huge millions of readers and TV viewers, and the country was doomed.
            2. novel66
              novel66 27 February 2020 11: 26 New
              +8
              Diana, my respect! hi love
              is not it?
              SO!! but you’ll prove the hell, all the rolls they have, French, for every peasant
              1. The comment was deleted.
            3. Marine engineer
              Marine engineer 27 February 2020 15: 07 New
              +4
              “Some still have brains on their heads. Although, it would seem how much time has passed since then? ”

              Those who read “Twinkle” in the early 90s are already deep in their 40s. And if over the past 30 years they did not understand what happened to our country and how the geeks used them, it would be useless to cover their affairs with them.
              1. Diana Ilyina
                Diana Ilyina 27 February 2020 15: 43 New
                +7
                Marine engineer (....)
                Those who read “Twinkle” in the early 90s are already deep in their 40s. And if over the past 30 years they did not understand what happened to our country and how the geeks used them, it would be useless to cover their affairs with them.
                Agree! For example, I was always struck by the fact that not only fledgling youths without a king in their heads participate in neo-Nazi torchlight marches in Ukraine, but also quite adult uncles who are well over 40 and who seem to have studied in Soviet schools and received quite a high-quality education . This is how Soviet education and love for fascist litter such as Bandera and Shukhevych fit into their heads? To what extent should such individuals degrade?
                The same can be said for local lovers of crunching French baguettes. After all, you read the comments of the same "Olnovich" and you realize that a psychiatric hospital has been crying for people like him, and for a long time. But it seems, too, comes from the USSR. Paradox... request recourse
                1. Marine engineer
                  Marine engineer 27 February 2020 18: 09 New
                  +4
                  “For example, I was always struck by the fact that not only fledgling youths without a king in their heads participate in neo-Nazi torchlight processions in Ukraine, but also quite adult guys who are well over 40 and who seem to have studied in Soviet schools and received quite high-quality education."

                  Colleague Dian Ilyin does not surprise me.
                  The bacilli of nationalism in Ukraine stopped fighting long before Gorbachev and his team. In the mid-70s, we studied in the middle classes, which was already noticeably with the naked eye. So the participation of the 50s in the processions of the Nazis does not surprise me, they prepared for this from the cradle. In the mid-90s, at a meeting with friends in the coastal town of Kherson region, he said “we have a lot in common and we will not shoot at each other, our children too, but grandchildren, if this coven continues, will kill each other” Mistaken, our generation children began to kill each other.
                  1. gsev
                    gsev 8 March 2020 01: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: Marine Engineer
                    For example, I was always struck by the fact that not only fledgling youths without a king in their heads participate in neo-Nazi torchlight processions in Ukraine, but also quite adult men who are well over 40

                    I suppose that ordinary Ukrainians are closer to ordinary Russians, and Russians who dream of robbing their compatriots are the Ukrainian owners of factories, newspapers and ships. Today they argued with a successful businessman who proved to me that Putin was a thief, a CIA agent and a destroyer of the Russian people. Moreover, as a well-known fact, he told me that 140 people annually disappear in Moscow, while his friend in the crematorium burned these disappeared.
              2. bober1982
                bober1982 27 February 2020 18: 12 New
                -1
                Quote: Marine Engineer
                Those who read “Spark” in the early 90s are already deeply over 40

                In the early 90s no one The Sparkle I haven’t read it - I repeat, 1990 is a year of terrible shortage, Soviet citizens were very concerned about the search for matches, sugar, underpants, salt, cigarettes, socks, vodka, etc., interest in Bukharin and Kaganovich disappeared sharply, the crowd rushed to flea markets.
                The thing was done, the magazine could be closed as unnecessary.
              3. mmaxx
                mmaxx 8 March 2020 07: 41 New
                0
                Lying in my dacha "Lights" of those times. Not everyone went to the kindling. I open it sometimes. Then, in my youth, I read everything. Against the backdrop of state indoctrination, it was then a breath of fresh air. But now!!!! After all, it is now clear that this is just a stream of manipulations. Then everything was all over again. So people took a bite. I don’t understand one thing. How did people after reading this rubbish remain with such views for their whole lives? In reality, those who do not become a conservative in old age have no brains.
                Now reading that "Spark" is sick through the page. We have seen and experienced so much since then. It’s like a thimbler stripping a sucker naked, and after many years, he rejoices as everything was and misses those times.
          2. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 27 February 2020 19: 18 New
            0
            Mr. Korotich safely departed for Kiev.

            Well, actually he left for the USA. And "Ogonyok" went rotten in 1986-1990, when there was still the USSR. Then he really did not need anyone.
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 February 2020 10: 27 New
        -3
        Quote: apro
        Quote: Olgovich
        And remained free people

        And what was it expressed in? More specifically, you can ...

        Personal freedom includes: freedom of elections, speech, assembly, parties, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of the media,, the right to privacy, the right to equality before the law, the right to judicial protection, etc.

        Nothing of this remains in the country ...
        1. apro
          apro 27 February 2020 10: 37 New
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          Personal freedom

          It’s like the freedom of a beggar .. say what you want. Believe what you want. You can become a millionaire. But they decide how much freedom you need an economic collar ...
          Personality and society are somewhat different things. How much society can, proceeding from economic realities, realize individual freedom. Individual freedom often goes in contradiction with public interests.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 27 February 2020 11: 08 New
            -5
            Quote: apro
            It’s like the freedom of a beggar .. say what you want. Believe what you want. You can become a millionaire. But they decide how much freedom you need an economic collar ...
            Personality and society are somewhat different things. How much society can, proceeding from economic realities, realize individual freedom. Individual freedom often goes in contradiction with public interests.

            Why is this empty overall a talking room in response to SPECIFIC and ELEMENTARY examples of the freedom of a person whom he was deprived of?

            I note that they were all in Russia BEFORE yours and disappeared with yours. At the same time, everything was declared verbally, but was flagrantly violated in practice ...

            What was your fear so afraid of before the animal’s cold nightly paranoid sweat, huh?
            And just KNOW WHAT will happen to them .....
            1. apro
              apro 27 February 2020 11: 18 New
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              Why this empty general talking room in response to SPECIFIC and ELEMENTARY examples of the freedom of a person whom he was deprived of?

              And to that. if I have economic opportunities, I will dictate my terms to free individuals. because my freedom of my personality is much more important and stronger than someone else’s freedom of personality. and no one can indicate. I AM A FREE PERSONALITY AND HAVE ECONOMIC ADVANTAGES. and power and laws and faith and someone else's personal life will be mine ..
        2. Sugar Honeyovich
          Sugar Honeyovich 27 February 2020 16: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          Personal freedom includes: freedom of elections, speech, assembly, parties, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of the media,, the right to privacy, the right to equality before the law, the right to judicial protection, etc.

          In its purest form the USSR. Unless the party was one. But many parties, as NOW knows, are not at all a guarantee of individual freedom ... fellow
        3. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 27 February 2020 16: 35 New
          +3
          I think you were not asked about that.
          If you show specific examples, for example, in the case of Tatyana Zolotova or in the case of Catherine’s railway workers — where freedom of speech, conscience, the media, the right to privacy, and the right to judicial protection were respected — this will be more obvious.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 February 2020 10: 04 New
            -3
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            I think you were not asked about that.
            If you show specific examples

            You do not think, but just read the QUESTION of Oleg, so as not to ask stupid questions about the Tatyans.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 28 February 2020 12: 53 New
              +1
              You don't think

              Sorry, I can not satisfy this your request.
              just read the QUESTION of Oleg

              In which he asks for specifics in terms of how this "freedom" was expressed?
              And in response to this you list freedom, but do not give specifics in their observance?
              If Oleg is kind enough, he can say for himself whether he asked you whether you would answer or not. Then I think the questions will be removed. If you see this message of course.
              Do not ask stupid questions about Tatyans.

              And what is the stupidity? As you like to call others stupid, I just wonder.
              Concrete situations from life are shown, showing the relationship between the state and the citizen. This is the only way to find out compliance / non-compliance with something.
              For some reason, you bring specific stories from life in your discussions on the forum. And do not think stupid.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 28 February 2020 13: 37 New
                -6
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                In which he asks for specifics in terms of how this "freedom" was expressed?
                And in response to this you list freedom, but do not give specifics in their observance?

                The whites remained FREE people, and their freedom lay in -cm. above, where the main freedoms are listed (they are also elementary).

                Under the Bolsheviks, they did not smell.
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                And what is the stupidity?

                Not relevant to white freedoms under discussion
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                How are youcall others stupidI’m just wondering.

                You lie: nowhere and not once. Examples? request

                Silly questions are also with smart people.

                If offended, sorry hi
    2. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 27 February 2020 08: 38 New
      +4
      Olgovich (Andrey)
      Color and pride of the Russian army
      In what morning he pins with raw Moldovan moonshine ... laughing The skins are for sale, your "color and pride". negative
      Significant recognition of the fact that it was the "ardent opponents" of the US Bolsheviks ... that liberated the Far East from the Japanese ....
      Above in the comments, Diana quite clearly indicated how the Allies did not allow each other to snatch a larger piece.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 February 2020 10: 39 New
        -6
        Quote: Alexander Suvorov
        Skins corrupt, your "color and pride".
        З

        Nobody officially named them even in the USSR. request

        Rђ RІRѕS, official definitions of the Soviet state YOUR Heroes (People’s Commissar of Defense, Presovmin of the USSR, members of the Politburo, Central Committee, People’s Commissars and Marshals of the USSR, etc.):

        USSR Prosecutor General Vyshinsky on ships 37-38:
        “Scum, stinky patal, dung, stinking heap of garbage, filthy dogs, damned reptile, scorched crooks, vile creatures, crooks, bandits, arrogant, despicable adventurers, department of the SS and the Gestapo”


        Caught the difference, Napoleon? yes
        1. Alexander Suvorov
          Alexander Suvorov 27 February 2020 10: 46 New
          +5
          Olgovich (Andrey)
          Nobody officially named them even in the USSR.

          As always, a bunch in a puddle and a hackneyed record about the fact that everyone around is a spy.
          USSR Prosecutor General Vyshinsky on ships 37-38:
          This one of your cartoons has been exposed a hundred times. It’s especially funny to read this passage:
          despicable adventurers, SS department
          But nothing that officially the name of the SS appeared at the turn of 39/40?
          Liar ... Liar ... Liar ... tongue
          Caught the difference, Napoleon?
          Ask your roommate ... laughing
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 27 February 2020 11: 33 New
            -7
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            As always bunch in a puddle

            Familiar Bolshevik face! yes
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            that all around are spies.

            belay Not only spies, but KILLERS, saboteurs, terrorists, poisoners and sm. higher

            But what terrible degrees of crime they committed:
            Prosecutor General Vyshinsky: The Supreme Court of our country is considering a case on SEVERE CRIMESdirected against the good of our country, against our socialist fatherland - the fatherland of the working people of the whole world. But I’m hardly mistaken in saying that FOR THE FIRST TIME our court has to consider a case like this, consider a case about SUCH crimes and atrocities such as those that passed before your eyes

            the judicial investigation in the present case showed more and more, more and more terrible and scary the chain of shameful,UNEXPECTED, MONSTERIOUS crimes committed by the defendants, the entire disgusting chain of atrocities before which fade and the atrocities of the most inveterate, most heinous, most unbridled and mean criminals grow dull.

            In fact, what is the trial of all those, which, due to the conditions of the class struggle and fierce resistance to the cause of socialism from our enemies, we’ve done a lot lately maybe withalign with the current process of monstrosity, arrogance and cynicism crimes committed by these gentlemen!



            Infiltrated, Macedonian?
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            This one of your cartoons has been exposed a hundred times.

            HOW can you expose ..... THE TRUTH ?! Read the materials of the processes 36-38 years on Istmat.
            Quote: Alexander Suvorov
            despicable adventurers, SS department
            But nothing that officially the name of the SS appeared at the turn of 39/40?
            Liar ... Liar ... Liar ...

            It's even a pity to beat such "literate":
            lol
            Prosecutor General of the USSR (case Anti-conscience Center, 1937):
            The trial of the united Trotsky-Zinoviev center has already exposed the connections of the Trotskyists with the Gestapo and the Nazis. The present process has gone further in this regard. He gave material of exceptional evidentiary power, once again confirming and clarifying these relations, fully confirming and clarifying in a procedurally evident sense and in full the treacherous role that completely and unconditionally transferred to the camp of enemies, turned into one of the departments of the "SS" and the Gestapo.


            Remember, Macedos, HOW the USSR determined your Commissars, Presovmin, deputies and members of the POLITBUREAU and the Central Committee. yes
    3. 210ox
      210ox 27 February 2020 08: 59 New
      +5
      It blew these "free" people of yours all over the world .. Do you want to be a bouncer in a Harbin restaurant, do you want to carry pimps with prostitutes around Paris. Yes, and who are these "advanced workers"? Is it factory bosses?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 27 February 2020 10: 51 New
        -7
        Quote: 210ox
        Spread these "free" people of yours all over the world .. Do you want to be a bouncer in a Harbin restaurant, do you want to carry pimps

        People survived and, basically, took place: they were literate and hardworking, it is required everywhere and always.

        And most importantly, they were spared from the need to roar: "Glory to the Yagoda !!!", "Death to the Yagoda !!!", collective farm serfdom, medieval lawlessness, they could read, and most importantly, they could speak and think - EVERYTHING they saw fit, regardless from the opinion of stupid wort, mehlis and others like them ...
        1. Varyag_0711
          Varyag_0711 27 February 2020 11: 10 New
          +8
          Olgovich (Andrey)
          And most importantly, they were spared from the need to roar: "Glory to Yagoda !!!"
          Are you lying again? In the USSR, no one ever shouted "glory to Yagoda", at best "glory to the KPSS"!
          And then, in your opinion, it is better to shout "God Save the Tsar"? As for me, "glory to labor, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the Soviet people" is much better than "God save the Tsar" and to beat off bows with your forehead.
          collective farm serfdom
          Lying again! The collective farm is voluntary, but in the Republic of Ingushetia, despite the official abolition of serf slavery (by the way, in 1861 !!!), the peasants remained in bondage either at the same barracks or at the kulaks, and this is much worse than a collective farm or state farm.
          medieval lawlessness
          And what kind of rights did workers and peasants have in RI? To plow a gentleman or a capitalist for 14 hours a day, without days off, holidays, pensions and other social benefits?
          could read
          Yeah, 10-15 percent of the population!
          and most importantly, they could speak and think, EVERYTHING that they considered necessary
          Who could Chatterboxes from the CSS and the interim government? The peasants had no time to speak, they had to plow!
          whatever stupid opinion
          Dumb here only you have comments.
          1. mmaxx
            mmaxx 8 March 2020 07: 46 New
            0
            Well then you are)))) There was freedom of speech.
            The soldiers were called on to the German. 70 percent were flabby. Such was the king-father had freedom of speech.
            They probably flogged themselves.
    4. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 27 February 2020 16: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: Olgovich
      with advanced workers

      And as befits advanced workers, these fought for revolution against the "old regime." And at the same time with each other ... lol
    5. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 29 February 2020 20: 30 New
      -1
      The color and pride of the Russian army, led by advanced workers

      It follows from your commentary that the "advanced workers" led "the color and pride of the Russian army," since they were "in charge." And why did they lead them so ineptly that they had to flee?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 March 2020 08: 33 New
        -7
        Quote: Aviator_
        It follows from your comment that "advanced workers "directed "the color and pride of the Russian army", since they were "at the head"

        Ahead means ... lead? Yes.... lol fool
        Quote: Aviator_
        why did they lead them so stupidly that they had to flee?

        Guided perfectly, considering almost complete lack of funds and resources (compared with the weapons captured by the bandits and the reserves of 12 million of the Russian army)
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 1 March 2020 08: 42 New
          -2
          Yeah, they were superb. And where in Siberia were the reserves for 12 million army? And what did the French general Janin do there? Was a UN observer (not yet created)?
  5. bober1982
    bober1982 27 February 2020 09: 31 New
    -1
    The article is quite superficial.
    The turning point of the Siberian campaign was the failure of the Siberian army near Krasnoyarsk, the Kappelites weren’t able to take it, they had to bypass the city from the north, and then beyond the Yenisei.
    It was near Krasnoyarsk that the first stage of the Ice Campaign ended, then the second stage began - unorganized withdrawal on the principle of ........ save yourself, who as you can, the unit commanders themselves decided to break through to Irkutsk, Chita, only names remained from the units themselves . Typhoid, wounded, women, hunger, children, wagons, skirmishes with red partisans.
  6. antivirus
    antivirus 27 February 2020 09: 43 New
    +2
    imagine - thousands of miles of Siberian centuries of space; the deaf taiga where a man’s foot didn’t go, wild mountains with hard-to-reach climbs, huge rivers shackled by ice, two arshins deep snow, frost cracking ... And imagine thousands of Russian people walking day after day through these deep boundless snows; -SIBERIA AND Pribaikalye HAS NOT BEEN CONSIDERED RUSSIA
    1. Alexander Suvorov
      Alexander Suvorov 27 February 2020 09: 48 New
      0
      antivirus
      And imagine thousands of Russian people walking day after day through these deep boundless snows; -SIBERIA AND Pribaikalye HAS NOT BEEN CONSIDERED RUSSIA
      And after them came exactly the same thousands of the same Russian people. Only some escaped well-deserved retribution for their atrocities against the Russian people, while others carried on their shoulders this most just retribution. Feel the difference, as they say.
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 27 February 2020 11: 25 New
        0
        And after them came exactly the same thousands - that is how Siberia became Russia
  7. is-22
    is-22 29 February 2020 13: 26 New
    +1
    "... Where the Angara flows into the lake ..."
    The author turned the river back
  8. Vladimir Suslov
    Vladimir Suslov 4 March 2020 17: 40 New
    0
    Since when did the Angara begin to flow into Lake Baikal?