1942 year. German response to T-34 and KV

117
Why T-34 lost to PzKpfw III, but won against Tigers and Panthers.
So, we stopped at the beginning of the 1943 year:

1. Soviet industry mastered the mass production of T-34 - it began to be produced at all 5 factories, where it was produced during the war years. This is, of course, not counting the Stalingrad Tank Plant, at which the release of the Thirty-Fours was discontinued in September 1942 and no longer resumed.



2. Design tank T-34 has been greatly improved and rid of many "childhood diseases". In general, the army was now getting a fully combat-ready tank with slightly increased motor resources.

3. The Red Army was able to form in large quantities and learned how to use tank corps, which can be viewed as a domestic counterpart (not a copy!) Of the German tank division. Approximately the first corps of the corresponding state appeared in our 4 quarter of 1942.

Thus, it should be said that towards the end of 1942, the beginning of 1943, the Red Army received its own Panzervae, capable of effectively waging a modern tank war, even against such a formidable enemy, as were the forces of fascist Germany. Nevertheless, of course, our tank forces still had room to grow. We will consider the shortcomings of our tank formations a bit later, but for now let us pay attention to what the “gloomy Aryan genius” answered to the growth of Soviet tank power.

As we have said many times before, the T-34’s huge advantage over German tanks was counter-booking, which the Thirty-Four was equally protected from all sides. At the same time, the German T-III and T-IV, even after enhancing their body armor, were anti-skid, and even then - with certain reservations only the frontal projection of the car could be considered.

Nevertheless, of course, the term “counter-missile” from all Soviet and German tanks was fully applicable to armor, except for the KV-1 — its 75 mm armor plates really “did not want” to break through the Wehrmacht’s first year of war. As for the 45 mm T-34 armor plates, they, despite rational inclination angles, were counter-spacing only against a limited number of artillery systems. In fact, the thirty-four armor defended well against short-barreled 50 and 75-mm cannons, as well as any smaller caliber artillery. But against the armor-piercing projectiles of long-barreled 50-mm artillery systems, the T-34 protection didn’t work so well, although it was very difficult for the Thirty-Four to deal decisive damage from this gun, and the Germans themselves considered it only limitedly effective. At the same time, the armor-piercing shells of guns with a caliber of 75 mm with a normal barrel length reserved T-34 protected quite arbitrarily. Thus, according to research institutes No. 48, made in 1942, only 31% of the total number of hits of 75-mm projectiles were safe for the tank - and there are no guarantees that any number of projectiles fired from short barrel guns. By the way, for 31-mm shells, the number of safe hits reached 50%.

So, the Germans, faced in 1941 with the T-34 and KV, of course, did not sit with folded arms and with 1942, they seriously began to saturate the Wehrmacht and SS units with adequate anti-tank weapons. What did it look like?

Towed guns


Before the start of the invasion of the USSR, the Wehrmacht’s main anti-tank weapon was the 37-mm “beater” Pak 35 / 36.



Let us pay a little attention to the designations of the German guns. The first figures of the Germans meant caliber, and in centimeters rather than millimeters, but the author chose to keep the definition familiar to the domestic reader. Then followed the name of the artillery class: Pak is “Panzerabwehrkanone” or “Panzerjägerkanone”, that is, an anti-tank cannon or gun hunter’s tank, as they were later called. And finally, the last figures are the year of construction of the prototype.

This gun had a lot of merit. It was very light, which simplified its transportation by cars and allowed the calculation to roll it in battle. The small size of the gun made it possible to mask it effectively, and the low weight of the projectiles and the successful design made it possible to develop a high rate of fire. But, for all its undoubted merits, the “beater” had two fundamentally unrecoverable drawbacks - a small armor ’action and the ability to confidently hit only tanks with anti-bullet armor.

Accordingly, the German armed forces needed a new artillery system, and it was the 50-mm Pak 38.



As you can see from the last figure, the prototype of this gun appeared in 1938, but the Germans were clearly not in a hurry to mass saturate the army with this gun: in 1939, the entire 2 instance was released, in 1940 g - 338 units mass production unfolded in 1941, when 2072 produced such weapons. I must say that the Pak 38 proved to be a very successful artillery system. It was still quite light and mobile, but at the same time its trunk extended to 60 caliber increased the initial velocity of the armor-piercing projectile to values ​​that allowed it to more or less successfully fight against T-34 at medium distances.

So, in 1942, the production of Pak 38 reached its peak - 4 480 of such guns was launched. Nevertheless, despite the “long” barrel, the armor penetration parameters of this weapon were no longer considered satisfactory. So in 1943 g, after the production of another 2 826 units. their release was discontinued.

In fact, of course, the Wehrmacht needed an 75-mm anti-tank gun, and the Germans had this gun: the famous 75-mm PaK-40.



This 75-mm VET gun began to be created back in 1938, but the work on it was not considered a priority, and here's why. Many of our military lovers stories It has long been a good tone to admire this artillery system. As regards armor penetration, it is, without any doubt, worthy of these raptures. Suffice it to say that PaK-40 fired 6,8 kg armor-piercing shells with an initial speed of 792 m / s, while our famous 76,2-mm ZiS-3 - 6,5 kg with an initial speed of 655 m / s. At the same time, the German cannon was distinguished by its excellent shooting accuracy (however, the ZiS-3 also had an accurate accuracy). It must be said that until the very end of the war, the PaK-40 remained an extremely effective anti-tank weapon: it confidently hit any Soviet armored vehicle, with the exception, perhaps, of EC-2.

But then a natural question arises - if the Germans created such a perfect VET vehicle already in 1940, what prevented them from immediately putting their 75-mm miracle cannon on the stream? The answer is very simple - for all its merits PaK-40 categorically did not fit into the concept of blitzkrieg.

The fact is that with all its undeniable merits PaK-40 could only be transported on a mechtyag. Moreover, as far as the author could figure out, the car could only have been enough to drive on the highway, but when towing on dirt roads or off-road, the PaK-40 needed a specialized tractor. Mobility on the battlefield was also considered limited, it was assumed that if the calculation could roll the gun from one place to another, then no more than a dozen or so meters.

It is interesting, by the way, that the ZIS-3, having a comparable mass, could be transported by any type of vehicle, including relatively low-powered vehicles like GAZ-AA, and could “roll over” in battle for long distances, which made it possible to use them for direct support of advancing rifle units. However, a detailed comparison of ZiS-3 and PaK-40 is beyond the scope of this series of articles, so we will not continue it here.

Well, returning to the 75-mm PaK-40, we note that it was an excellent anti-tank tool, so it was difficult for the Germans to “drag” him into the tank breaks. We can say that this artillery system was no longer so much a means of attack as defense. Accordingly, it didn’t fit into the blitzkrieg strategy at all, and until the Wehrmacht collided with tanks with anti-missile armor, its power was considered excessive. Thus, for a long time the Wehrmacht did not feel the need for such an artillery system and did not rush the industry with its production.

But when it became clear that in the USSR the blitzkrieg somehow did not work out and even 50-mm artillery was only partially used in the fight against T-34 and KV, then in November 1941 was decided to urgently put PaK-40 into production . Since February 1942 has been able to adjust the serial production, and by the end of the year 2 114 such guns were produced, and in 1943 their production was already 8 740 units, and further increased.

I must say that another significant drawback of PaK-40 was the complexity of its production. Oddly enough, but PaK-40 was too complicated product, even for German industry. In February, the first 1942 guns of this type were produced by 15, but the planned production of guns per month in 150 was made only in August of the same year. But even this, a small, in general, number of guns suffered from a lack of ammunition - on average, the guns in the troops constantly had no more than one ammunition. The Germans even had to create a special team "Ulrich" and give them the broadest powers to solve the "shell" issue. However, acceptable supply of PaK-40 ammunition was achieved only in 1943.

In addition to all of the above, the Germans had one more 75-mm gun PaK-41.



It was a very original artillery system designed for firing sub-caliber projectiles. Its barrel had a “variable” caliber, - 75 mm at the gate and 55 mm at the muzzle, and was attached directly to the gun shield. Due to the high cost of weapons and excessive - ammunition for it (in the manufacture of the latter used the shortest tungsten) in a large series of weapons did not go. But still some amount (at least 150 units) was produced and sent to the troops.

At this point, the story of German towed anti-tank guns could have been completed ... if not for one important “but!”. The fact is that, sadly, not only German factories, but also the French and Soviet armies supplied the Wehrmacht with anti-tank weapons.

Already in 1941, during the Great Patriotic War, the Germans managed to capture a certain number of domestic 76,2-mm F-22 guns. The gun, in general, they liked, therefore, after certain modifications, which included the bore of a chamber for using a larger charge and some other innovations, entered service with the German army.



The exact number of guns converted and transferred to the Wehrmacht in towed variant is unknown, but according to some sources, 1942 guns were remade in 358, 1943 in 169 and 1944 in 33.

But the greatest contribution to the provision of the German armed forces with anti-tank 75-mm guns in the 1942 was still made by the French army. After the capitulation of France, the Germans, among other trophies, got several thousand 75-mm divisional guns arr. 1897, the company "Schneider". At first, the Germans didn’t do anything with them, but then, when the need for VET 75-mm guns became extremely high, they upgraded these tools by installing them on 50-mm Pak 38 gun carriages.



In 1942, the 2 854 of such guns was transferred to the Wehrmacht, in 1943 g - another 858 unit. Pak 97 / 38 and more 160 guns Pak 97 / 40 modification. Thus, in 1942, the French 75-mm guns became the most massive towed gun of this caliber in the Wehrmacht PTO. The share of French guns in the total number of 75-mm VET, received by the German Armed Forces in 1942, was more than 52%.

In fairness, it should be pointed out that the capabilities of the French "rework" were still not enough to oppose the T-34 and KV. The initial speed of the Pak 97 / 38 armor-piercing projectiles was not enough for this, and when meeting with tanks with anti-bullet armor it was mainly necessary to hope for cumulative ammunition.

On the other hand, the "French" in the Wehrmacht very well show the actual attitude of the German soldiers to our T-34 and KV. No matter what today's pseudo-historians say, savoring the shortcomings of the Thirty-Fours, but in 1942 the Germans found themselves in such an unpleasant situation that they had to urgently put in a series of 75-mm Pak 40 - and could not do it. So we had to plug holes with masses of French trophy artillery of the sample of the end of 19-th century!

Nevertheless, the Germans succeeded in the main thing - according to some data, the proportion of Pak 40 and 88-mm anti-aircraft guns in the total volume of Wehrmacht's TCP reached 30% by November 1942, and it is obvious that the lion’s share of the remaining towed guns of the PTO were French 75- mm Pak 97 / 38 and long-barreled 50-mm Pak 38.

Self-propelled artillery mounts


Let's start with the good old StuG III, which we call “Sturmgeshütüm”, “Stug”, and more often - “Art-storm”. The history of this self-propelled is as follows. According to the German military theory, the tanks were intended almost exclusively for special formations, which in the Wehrmacht became tank divisions, neither motorized nor infantry German divisions were relied upon by the state. Nevertheless, it was clear that in the modern battle infantry needs the support of armored vehicles - and this is the task that the Germans assigned to their "dumps."

If the most "popular" German pre-war tanks were armed with the bulk of the 37-mm guns and only gradually transferred to the 50 mm, the SPG initially received, though short-barreled, 75-mm guns.

1942 year. German response to T-34 and KV


Their high-explosive fragmentation projectile had far greater power than that of tank guns, and the small length of the barrel, the low initial velocity, made it possible without problems to fit it into the self-propelled gun on the basis of the T-III. Nevertheless, of course, the 75-mm artillery system with a barrel length in 24 caliber was not enough to combat the T-34 and KV, here only cumulative projectiles could save the situation.

And the number of such collisions grew and grew, and it was obvious that the German infantry divisions themselves had nothing to oppose to the new Soviet tanks. About the efforts on the part of the towed artillery, we described above, but this was not enough. And since March 1942, the German “stuffs” are getting a new 75-mm artillery system, analogous to the Pak 40, which first had a barrel length 43 and then 48 caliber.



In total, in 1942, the “long-barreled stuff” was released over 600 units, in 1943 - 3 011 units.

Tank destroyers


At the beginning of World War II, German forces concentrated in the east had about 153 anti-tank SAU Panzerjäger I (Panzerreger I) armed with Czech 47 mm at their disposal.



These were already outdated, in general, machines that could pose some threat to the T-34 and HF only when using sabot projectiles. During 1941, the Germans converted from the French tanks another 174 anti-tank SAU with the same gun, some of which fell on the Eastern Front.



But all this by and large was unimportantly armed with a trifle, unable to seriously affect the balance of power.

However, in 1942, the Germans returned to creating specialized anti-tank SAUs at a qualitatively new level: based on the T-II chassis, they installed either the 75-mm Pak 40 or the converted F-22 trophy on it. This ACS was named Marder II, and in 1942 g its release was 521 units. - Some of them were converted directly from previously produced T-II tanks.



In parallel, the Marder II Germans organized the production and Marder III, which differed from the Marder II only in that instead of the chassis from the T-II was taken the chassis from the Czech tank Pz Kpfw 38 (t). Such SAUs were released in 1942. 454 units.



In order to organize training for the crews of anti-tank ACS, it was necessary to leave some of them in the rear, but this was recognized as excessive waste, and it was proposed to create a similar ACS, based on some trophy technique. In the end, the choice was on the French tracked tractor - this is how the Marder I appeared, of which 170 units were released.



Interestingly, despite the "training" orientation of this type of machine were eventually sent to the Eastern Front. Thus, we see that the Germans created 1942 1 anti-tank SAU armed with either Pak 145 or captured F-40 in 22 - all of them, of course, were dangerous for T-34. Interestingly, Muller-Hillebrand gives a slightly larger number - 1 243 anti-tank SAU.

In 1943, the release of anti-tank self-propelled guns grew slightly: Marder II released and refitted approximately 330 units. Marder III - 1 003 units

Tanks


In 1942, the German armed forces finally abandoned mass production of light tanks. In 1941, the mass production of the T-II and the Czech Pz Kpfw 38 (t) was still going on, 846 machines were produced in total, which made up almost 28% of the total number of linear tanks (not counting commander tanks). In 1942, these types of light tanks produced only 450 vehicles, representing about 11% of the annual production of tanks in Germany. At the same time, production of Pz Kpfw 38 (t) was discontinued in May, and T-II - in July 1942.

As for medium tanks, their production continued to grow: T-III was released approximately 1,5 times, and T-IV - 2 times more than in 1941. On the one hand, it may seem that the Germans are in 1942. still focused on T-III, since they were produced by 2 605 units. against 994 units T-IV, but in fact this year has become a “swan song” “treshki”. The fact is that the Germans in 1942 resolved the issue of expanding the production of T-IV: if in January 59 machines were released, in December their production almost tripled and reached 155 machines. Thanks to this, 1943 managed to replace the production of T-III with heavier and more advanced machines - although in December 1942 production of T-III was 211 machines, but in January 1943 was only 46 machines, and in just the first 6 months 1943 r was produced only 215 tanks of this type, that is, even less than 36 machines per month. And then the "treshki" finally left the assembly line. And, of course, it is unnecessary to remind that in 1942 the Germans launched the production of a heavy tank “Tiger”, although they were not able to organize their production in commercial quantities - only 1942 “Tigers” were released before the end of 77.

Of course, besides quantitative, there were also qualitative changes. Starting with the 1940, the T-III received the 50-mm cannon with a caliber 42 barrel, whose ability to hit the T-34 was frankly small. But since December 1941 in the T-IIIJ1 version has received a more powerful 50-mm artillery system with 60 barrel-length calibers (similar to Pak 38), which already gave certain chances to hit T-34 not only at small, but also at medium distances.


In this photo, the author probably did not guess the modification, but this is a “treshka” with a long-barreled tool.


Of course, the installation of this weapon increased the anti-tank potential of “treshka”, although, as we said above, the Pak 38 capabilities were still considered insufficient to combat the T-34.

What is interesting is that despite the threat posed by Soviet tanks, the Germans still had to return to the T-III for short-barreled 75-mm KwK 37 guns with barrel lengths of all 24 caliber, which were used to arm the early T-IV models and “stuff” . Moreover, this was done in July-October 1942, when 447 T-IIIN modification tanks were produced with KwK 37.

On the one hand, such a return to the almost useless guns in a tank battle seems completely unjustified. But on the other hand, we must remember that, according to the views of those years, tanks still should not have fought with tanks, and in any case, this was not their main task in battle. German tanks had to break through enemy defenses, enter a breakthrough, destroy enemy units on the march, help the motorized infantry to close the encirclement ring, repel counterattacks of troops trying to escape from the encirclement. In other words, goals such as light field fortifications, infantry, machine gun nests, field artillery, cars, and other unarmored vehicles were not just important and legitimate, but priority targets of German tanks. But in theory, the anti-tank guns, that is, towed and self-propelled anti-tank artillery, had to cope with enemy tanks. Tank duels should have been the exception to the rule.

However, the hostilities on the eastern front quickly showed that it was impossible to shift the task of fighting with Soviet tanks solely to the means of VET. Thus, the Wehrmacht needed a tank, whose weapon would be sufficiently powerful both to combat unarmored targets, and against enemy tanks. Ideally, at that time, an 75-mm artillery system like the Pak 40, which was powerful enough for its armor-piercing shells to hit enemy armored vehicles and high-explosive targets, was suitable for this purpose.

But Pak 40 categorically "did not want to" get into the T-III, although there were attempts to install it on the "three". As a result, the Germans had to go on a well-known dualism. The bulk of the T-III was equipped with 50-mm long-barreled guns, capable (albeit through time) to fight the T-34, but whose high-explosive shells had insufficient action to destroy other targets. Other "treshki" received a "short-barred" KwK 37, which were not suitable for the anti-tank fight, but much better "worked" for the rest of the objectives of the tank gun.

Another thing - T-IV. This combat vehicle was heavier and more spacious than the T-III, thanks to which the installation of 75-mm Pak 40 on it was quite possible. For the first time, the more powerful 75-mm KwK 40 L / 43 cannon (similar to the Pak 40 with a barrel shortened to 43) was applied to the T-IVF2 (or Pz Kpfw IV Ausf F2, if you like) modification, which was launched in March 1942.



Initially, the T-IV was armed with a short-barreled 75-mm cannon KwK 37 and up to February the 1942 g inclusive, the Quartet was produced only with such a gun. In March-April, modifications with the “short” KwK 37 and “long” KwK 40 L / 43 were made in parallel, and since May of the same year, German factories finally switched to the production of “long-barred” modifications T-IV. A total of 994 tanks of this type, released in 1942, 124 received KwK 37 and 870 units. - long-barreled KwK 40 L / 43.

We are not going to talk about Tiger tanks yet - in fact, this heavy tank initially had a pronounced "anti-tank" orientation, in that its capabilities were extremely high, and surpassed any tank in the world.

In general, we can say that in 1942, the anti-tank capabilities of the Wehrmacht and the SS underwent a qualitative change. By the end of 1942 - the beginning of 1943 due to the efforts of industrialists and the widest use of war trophies, the Germans were able to re-equip their towed and self-propelled PTO artillery and conventional self-propelled guns with tools capable of fighting T-34 and KV. The same was true for panzervaffe. At the beginning of 1942, the main tank guns were 50-mm KwK 38 L / 42 with a barrel length 42 caliber and 75-mm KwK 37 with a barrel length 24 caliber, the capabilities of which were notoriously small to deal with tanks with counter armor. However, by the end of 1942, the basis of the German armored forces was combat vehicles with a long-barreled 50-mm KwK 39 L / 60 cannon and an excellent 75-mm KwK 40 L / 43 artillery system.

Thus, we have to state a fact - by the time when the Soviet tank forces, both from experience and organizational structure, were very close to the German Panzervae, the Germans managed to deprive T-34 of one of the most important advantages. Starting at the end of 1942 - the beginning of 1943. The T-34 could no longer be considered a tank with anti-missile booking.

To be continued ...
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  1. +19
    22 May 2019 06: 32
    The Red Army was late with a response to the rearmament of the Wehrmacht. As soon as the T-34 and KV were brought to some standard in mass production, they just saturated the army with them - and then the enemy was with new artillery systems and tanks. Even having acquired the Tiger at the end of 1942, until the end of 1943 they could not really counter anything in mass quantities. How can one not recall the situation in the beginning of 1941, when they organized the production of powerful 57-mm and 107-mm artillery systems as a reaction to the enemy who had not yet appeared. But partly they were right, only in time they were mistaken. In reality, by the time of the Battle of Kursk, they could not restore the mass production of ZIS-2 in large numbers, nor increase the armor of tanks, nor put an 85 mm gun on them. Only it in the anti-tank version of the anti-aircraft gun and could constitute a counteraction to heavy Germans (not counting the corps artillery). Well, the entry of PTAbs into the arsenal of the IL-2 somehow saved the situation.
    Thanks for the continuation, plus!
    1. +2
      22 May 2019 09: 56
      From the end of 1942 - the beginning of 1943. "Thirty-four" could no longer be considered a tank with anti-shell armor

      The T34 lost its projectile resistance, but the ricochet remained, which often helped out and a rather successful silhouette - getting into a moving tank was not so easy and the Germans could not use their full range advantage.
      In reality, by the time of the Battle of Kursk they couldn’t either restore mass production of ZIS-2 in large numbers, nor increase the armor of tanks, nor put an 85-mm gun on them

      They could not restore the release, but there were stocks in the warehouses that they had already managed to produce
      the problem was different under Kursk - neither the t34-85, nor the zis-2, nor the 107mm guns managed to get there
      and the PTO had to be reinforced with converted German 75mm anti-aircraft guns (our 85mm) and even captured German 88mm anti-aircraft guns, as well as massaging the fire of less efficient guns, collecting them in the islands of anti-tank guns
      in general, it turned out, however, in the positional war, as in the Leningrad direction, the PTO's weakness affected - the Germans often did raids with tanks, knocking out with impunity 1-2 guns seen by the infantry.
  2. +21
    22 May 2019 06: 40
    As for the comparison of ZIS-3 and PAK-40, it is not very correct. A typical divisional cannon, forced to become both an anti-tank weapon, and an initially specialized anti-tank gun are two different things.
    As for mobility on the battlefield - yes, here the ZIS-3 had an advantage, its genesis affects - the machine used on the ZIS-2 and ZIS-3 was originally the machine of the regimental cannon F-24, which did not go into series. Zis-3 is more than 200 kg lighter than PAK-40, put on car wheels, which is definitely better on the soft ground of narrow German wheels.
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 08: 04
      In continuation: the experimental guns of Grabin ZIS-40, which was developed in 13 on the F-1940USV carriage, but with cartridges and ballistics from an anti-aircraft gun arr. 22, and ZIS-S-1931-58, could become similar to PAK-1 in the Red Army. 1944 development, duplex with 85 mm Grabin gun, competitor D-44. The ZIS-13 had an initial speed of 813m / s, more than the German, but given the worst quality of Russian armor-piercing shells, the penetration would be around PAK-40.
      1. +6
        22 May 2019 08: 27
        I wanted to fix it, but it doesn’t let the forum go. The S-58-I was a duplex with the 85 mm S-58-II, and not with the S-8, a competitor to the D-44.
      2. -2
        22 May 2019 08: 59
        In continuation: similar to PAK-40 in the Red Army, experimental guns of Grabin could become


        They could not: if Soviet shells were made from a mixture of manure and snow, then no guns could save.
        Amerovskie 75mm on Lee \ Grants completely pulled the board of the Tigers --- with the Amer shell. Because it contained molybdenum in normal (and not trace) amounts.

        But it was not stupid Soviet, as some might think --- it was poverty. AND nothing can be done about poverty: well, there is no molybdenum or technology.
        1. +5
          22 May 2019 10: 00
          besides poverty there were other problems.
          remember the problems of producing 45mm shells - they turned out to be so bad that they didn’t pierce the t3g and h in the forehead, only the earliest models with weakened armor made their way.
          remember also that often in the ammunition there were no anti-tank shells at all - only high-explosive shells or, like KV-2, only concrete-piercing shells.
          1. +1
            22 May 2019 11: 45
            besides poverty there were other problems.

            Poverty in itself is a sufficient problem.

            remember the problems of producing 45mm shells - they turned out to be so bad that they didn’t pierce the t3g and h in the forehead, only the earliest models with weakened armor made their way.

            And here, IMHO, there was a direct betrayal.
            1. +14
              22 May 2019 11: 50
              there was no betrayal about the shells
              there was poverty, poor education, weak workforce
              and there was the influence of the harmful development of the Stakhanov movement, when the figures of the report became more important than the essence of the work.
              1. -3
                22 May 2019 14: 00
                there was no betrayal about the shells
                there was poverty, poor education, weak workforce
                and there was the influence of the harmful development of the Stakhanov movement, when the figures of the report became more important than the essence of the work.


                Well, you know, of course: who doesn’t know how you ...

                Here's the thing: the shells in each batch are customary to test. Further, I think, it is possible not to continue? Or do you need to continue?
                If these shells would be tested, then ... What would happen?

                Generally speaking, there are so many very "strange" events and coincidences at the beginning of the war ... that deliberate betrayal is the only thing that all this can explain.
                1. +5
                  22 May 2019 14: 11
                  in the USSR in the 30s there was a lot of this when official duties were simply not fulfilled - there was no sufficient control system, there was no discipline, especially in village
                  (known frame problem and frames solve everything)
                  There are a lot of high-profile examples of spot checks, especially in the army,
                  when some commander instead of work just thumped for weeks.
                  and the fact that the batch of shells were not tested and the results were falsified was, as it were, in the mainstream. This problem was repeatedly raised by Stalin - he understood that fake reports did not allow making effective decisions.
                  but there was a banal misunderstanding by the local leadership of the consequences of not following the rules and instructions. After all, the shells began to be made using simplified technology proposed by someone and approved in all seriousness. I'm not talking about the dubious design of the grenade, which for some reason no one undertook to revise. The result with shells - all together.
                  1. +2
                    22 May 2019 14: 50
                    May I repeat it again?
                    It is customary (and even necessary) to test shells - from each batch, selectively.
                    If these shells were tested, what would happen?
                    That is, we have: not only "a new revolutionary technological process has been introduced", but there are no tests either .. for 7-8 years (!!). (Or falsified test results for ... THOUSANDS of batches)

                    I understand, I understand - there was no sabotage at all - just "village". Now you can believe that there were no random tests in thousands (!!!) of parties - but here I am, here I am - no, I can't.

                    And not only shells --- there were many of the same, many.

                    But I won’t discuss this topic further: it’s not interesting
                    1. +2
                      22 May 2019 15: 31
                      But where did you count thousands of parties?
                      the Red Army had about 15 thousand tanks with 45mm guns
                      and shells for them were always not enough, and the shortage was estimated at 40% before the war
                  2. 0
                    23 May 2019 08: 29
                    Not in the subject, but in the wire then and now - it is understood that now everything is different, but ...
                    But recently there was a lot of material on the VO about about the same condition with torpedoes ...
                    Everything is the same as with shells then, but only after 80 years and with torpedoes, although poverty and illiteracy are no longer here, but something is completely different ..! ...
                2. +3
                  22 May 2019 18: 07
                  Quote: AK64
                  Here's the thing: the shells in each batch are customary to test. Further, I think, it is possible not to continue? Or do you need to continue?
                  If these shells would be tested, then ... What would happen?

                  There wouldn’t be anything - because the shells were actually tested. And during the tests, the Russian armor plates were quietly pierced - in full accordance with the theory.
                  The problem was that the Germans used another type of armor on tanks - high-hardness cemented armor. And we have German tank armor for shooting appeared only in 1940
                  1. +4
                    22 May 2019 22: 11
                    Yes sir! Our shot on steel grade IZ, which is much softer than Wotan
                    1. +1
                      23 May 2019 09: 06
                      as far as I know, the use of Wotan on tanks was a surprise - it was believed that the Germans would not spend money on such
                      1. +1
                        23 May 2019 09: 44
                        Yes, I agree, an unpleasant surprise. But such things should also have been foreseen, IMHO, the waste is quite reasonable
                  2. +1
                    26 May 2019 14: 14
                    However, a too detailed comparison of the ZiS-3 and PaK-40 is beyond the scope of this series of articles, so we will not continue here.

                    Just for this one phrase, I would not allow this "article" to be published. It clearly shows that the author understands absolutely nothing about artillery. Since he finds some material to "compare" the gun with DE 2016 kJ and the gun with DE 1380 kJ.
                    Yes, and one more thing. The photo in the publication does not actually depict PaK 36 (r), but FK 36 (r). PaK 36 (r) looks like this:


                    There is such a plaque (DT) on the tip of the trunk, it is difficult not to notice.
            2. +2
              22 May 2019 18: 04
              Quote: AK64
              And here, IMHO, there was a direct betrayal.

              This is not a betrayal. This is our poverty.
              The shells were tested on standard medium-hardness armor manufactured by our factories, on which even overheated hulls showed tabular armor penetration. In 1940, Krupp tank armor of high hardness hit us - and on it the overheated hulls began to stab, and high-quality ones sharply reduced armor penetration - to 30 mm by 400 m.
              1. 0
                26 May 2019 14: 02
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The shells were tested on standard medium-hardness armor manufactured by our factories, on which even overheated hulls showed tabular armor penetration.

                The story with the overheated bodies, this is another invention of runet.
                In fact, 45 mm BBS were relatively long, 3,8 kb. Therefore, when the armor was damaged, they experienced a greater transverse load than 76 mm BBS (3,6 klb). Longer shells are harder to make, but the potential exhaust from them is higher.
                At tabular angles of attack from 0 to 30 degrees, such BBS behaved quite decently. But at angles of attack there are more than table angles (more than 30 degrees, this was not measured during tests), they often broke due to the high lateral load. Moreover, 76 mm also broke, only less often (due to their shorter length).
                The situation was to some extent settled only in 1942, the introduction of the Hartz localizers into the design of Soviet BBS. But this decision had its own shoals.
                Especially kosyachny in this regard were the Soviet 57 mm BBS 4,1 clb length. These beyond 30 degrees of attack didn’t do much. Even despite the localizers. And on the approach to 30 degrees of attack, they worked normally only on uncemented armor. But since 1943 (the year of the real development of the release of the ZIS-2), this did not matter much, the frontal armor of German tanks by that time had all become cementless.
          2. +1
            22 May 2019 23: 54
            The monstrously low quality of these shells (45mm) was already mentioned in the German reports of the times of the war in Spain. The reports spoke about the use of captured T-26s in battles against Republicans, and the appallingly low quality of their shells.
    2. +8
      22 May 2019 14: 41
      Quote: Potter
      As for the comparison of ZIS-3 and PAK-40, it is not very correct. A typical divisional cannon, forced to become both an anti-tank weapon, and an initially specialized anti-tank gun are two different things.

      I agree. But in fact, regardless of the designers' idea, the Zis-3 was widely used as a PTO, so you still have to compare. I. By the way, I have a very high opinion of ZIS-3
      1. +9
        22 May 2019 14: 56
        I agree with the high praise of the ZIS-3, it is constructively and technologically a masterpiece from the great Grabin. But this is precisely the divisional cannon, its massive use as a weapon of the anti-terrorist operation was forced due to the lack of alternative. However, your comparisons are very interesting and give an unexpected point of view on a seemingly battered topic, so I read it with pleasure.
        1. 0
          22 May 2019 16: 06
          Quote: Potter
          constructively and technologically it is a masterpiece from the great Grabin.

          This system made it possible to cover with burdock a hefty hole in the place of artillery of the Red Army. And the rest is the same Canon de 75 modèle 1897, which by the 41st at the division level is already clearly outdated.
          1. +2
            22 May 2019 18: 17
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            And the rest is the same Canon de 75 modèle 1897, which by the 41st at the division level is already clearly outdated.

            Duc ... Copper, gunpowder, high-quality steel, tractors. Copper. gunpowder, high-quality steel, tractors. And so from time to time.
            GAU regularly initiated work to replace the 76-mm divisions - and regularly received the same result: there is no copper and gunpowder to replace the projectile’s mobility reserve, too much steel in short supply or too much weight - there’s nothing to drag. So died 85 mm and 95 mm guns. In the end, a palliative decision was made: we leave everything as it is, but we make a divisional gun of high-quality reinforcement, which we do not turn on permanently in the staff of the division, but we will attach to reinforce the divisions in the direction of the main strike.
            1. +4
              22 May 2019 19: 39
              Quote: Alexey RA
              In the end, a palliative decision was made: we leave everything as it is

              In fact, everything was much tougher, Soviet-style.
              The state of 04/400 of the 41st year was washed down with 32 howitzers of 122 mm, 12 howitzers of 152 mm., And 16 divisions went to this holiday just by weight (German 36/12 105/150 mm).
              By August of that year, SUDDENLY it became clear that the picture described above exists only in someone's sore imagination. There is nothing and no one to equip two artillery regiments for the rifle division, nothing to shoot, nothing to carry.

              (The USSR was preparing for a total war, they said).

              As a result, the 3 'gun, which came as a bonus, suddenly became the main divisional artillery. Moreover, in the same amount (later 20). 152 mm were removed altogether, 122 mm were left 8 (later 12) pieces. That is, the German in the artillery regiment 36/12 105/150 mm, in the USSR 16/8 or 20/12 76/122 mm.

              In general, exactly the same story as with mechanized corps. Much less famous, but, it seems, much more important.
              1. +6
                22 May 2019 20: 04
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                36/12 105/150 mm, the USSR 16/8

                Quote: Cherry Nine
                It seems much more important.

                36 pcs x 14,81 kg + 12 pcs x 43,52 kg = 1055,4 kg volley weight artillery regiment of the German division.
                16 pcs x 6,2 kg + 8 pcs x 21,76 kg = 273,28 kg volley weight artillery regiment of the Soviet division in winter 41-42.

                4: 1 with the Germans. This is not to say about the consumption of shells, the quantity and quality of explosives, the training of military personnel and commanders, the radio, etc.
                1. +1
                  22 May 2019 22: 52
                  Quote: Cherry Nine
                  4: 1 with the Germans. This is not to say about the consumption of shells, the quantity and quality of explosives, the training of military personnel and commanders, the radio, etc.

                  Have you tried to multiply the salvo weight by rate of fire? :) German 105 mm was separate loading, and heavy. Comparison will not be so simple.
                  1. +4
                    23 May 2019 05: 54
                    Quote: Saxahorse
                    Have you tried to multiply the salvo weight by rate of fire?

                    No.
                    Because at the division level, the rate of fire of as many as 25 per minute of 53-O-350A rounds (ammunition in 6 minutes) is not interesting. You, it seems, did not understand the idea that, as conceived by the pre-war dreamers, 105 mm should have been M-30 instead of USV / ZiS-3.
                    1. -2
                      23 May 2019 23: 19
                      Quote: Cherry Nine
                      No.
                      Because at the division level, the rate of fire of as many as 25 per minute of 53-O-350A rounds (ammunition in 6 minutes) is not interesting.

                      Why isn't it interesting. In fact, these 12 guns produce as much iron per minute as 36 German "10,5 cm leFH 18M". And they have better mobility. You are right that there was nothing to carry the heavier cannons of the Red Army. We compensated with what we could, it turned out not so bad.
                      1. +2
                        24 May 2019 00: 40
                        Quote: Saxahorse
                        In fact, these 12 guns produce as much iron per minute as 36 German "10,5 cm leFH 18M"

                        Yes Yes. DShK ships 70 kg per minute, and 155 mm M114 ships 30 kilograms in the long-term mode, somewhere around 0,7 rounds per minute.
                        Quote: Saxahorse
                        not so bad.

                        Good luck.
                      2. +1
                        24 May 2019 15: 51
                        the problem of heavy guns was also due to unsuccessfully heavy carriages
                        read how and why we did not have sane self-propelled guns.
                        some 200-250 kg carriages were heavier than their foreign counterparts
          2. 0
            22 May 2019 22: 14
            For burdock plus. For the rest belay They have similar ballistics. And like everything, I didn’t understand what she and the Frenchwoman have in common constructively?
            1. +5
              23 May 2019 06: 02
              Quote: Andrey Shmelev
              They have similar ballistics. And everything seems to be

              Like everything, just a shell and ballistics. By obsolescence, this was understood, and not by carriages or counter-kickbacks. There are no questions to the gun carriage.

              Strictly speaking, the position is as follows. ZiS-3 matched the capabilities of industry, users, ammunition, traction, etc. She was on time. But this does not change the fact that it was not an anti-tank gun (by WWII standards) and was not a divisional weapon (by WWII standards). Fire solution from the series "well, at least somehow". Artillery three-line rifle.
              1. +3
                23 May 2019 09: 49
                Artillery three-line rifle good - Yes, here I completely agree, simple, cheap, reliable, very convenient.
                1. +4
                  23 May 2019 10: 34
                  Quote: Andrey Shmelev
                  Yes, here I completely agree, simple, cheap, reliable, very convenient.

                  Uh-huh.

                  If you leave out of brackets that on the paper of the Red Army of the 41st year, the 04/400 staff had a military unit with a special military unit built around the Democratic Party. July-August 41st, state 04/600 half of the departments without machine guns at all (What kind of people were they in this half? Why did they come to the war? Dig trenches?) December, state 04/750, 3 machine guns for 4 departments in platoon. They returned the 4th DP only in the spring of the 42nd, state 04/200.

                  Plus, the DP turned out to be not MG, but something like a BAR at best. Plus rifle arr. 1891 instead of the Soviet Garand.

                  And so all the rules.
        2. 0
          1 June 2019 17: 06
          The famous "Ballerina". Many gunners on their foreheads felt her jumping
      2. +2
        22 May 2019 15: 35
        in fact, the designers took into account that the gun will be used as a VET
        just when the gun was designed, the most armored tanks of the French had 40mm plates.
        tanks like Matilda2 or a tiger, where 70-100mm, even on the horizon was not observed
  3. +21
    22 May 2019 06: 45
    The author, like the overwhelming majority of others who write about the confrontation between the German anti-tank equipment and Soviet armored vehicles during the WWII period, writes only about cannons, their types and characteristics, but does not write at all about shells, the quality of armor, the quality of armor, the quality of armor during production, etc. And here, there are a lot of interesting things. Well, for example, the Germans developed excellent cumulative and sub-caliber projectiles, which made it possible to successfully fight against Soviet bonetics, even short-barreled guns with low ballistics, moreover, they established their wide production, which made it possible to have these projectiles in sufficient quantities in ammunition. Well, for some reason, everyone bypasses the excellent sights with distance calculators, which allowed the Germans to hit Soviet tanks from medium and long distances, literally with the very first shell. Further, the "armor" epic is not described, both in the Soviet tank forces and among the Germans, that is, there are jumps in the quality of armor. The culture of the production of armored vehicles also remains outside the brackets, and after all, Soviet tankers until the end of the war complained about the destruction of the crew by scale from poorly cleaned welds and dreamed of clean welds and splinter-resistant linings, like on German tanks.
    1. +3
      22 May 2019 06: 54
      Of course, this is so. The same quality of artillery shots was brought to an acceptable level only in the post-war period.
    2. +3
      22 May 2019 10: 05
      wadded quilted jackets - they partially protected
      and as for the Germans' sub-calibers ... it was very rare that there were more than 1 such projectile in the ammunition, in units of the ss it was considered the norm 3. So they, although they were, but not in large quantities.
      Cumulative shells were more saturated, but it was more difficult to use and they also did not create a turning point in the situation.
    3. Oct
      0
      22 May 2019 12: 05
      What is a "distance calculator"?
      1. +5
        22 May 2019 12: 09
        for example, a special stereoscopic device was used in a tiger, which, like in old cameras, measured distance by focus sharpness
        accuracy was up to 3-5 meters - this was enough to fire accurately from 1.5-2 km of distances.
        on the panther there was already a more primitive monocular - a range finder.
        1. Oct
          0
          22 May 2019 14: 05
          That is, these are optical long-distance sensors. By the way, it would be interesting to read about the device and the operation of similar devices of the 30s-40s of the last century.
    4. +6
      22 May 2019 12: 47
      Monster I agree about the tank sights: the Germans themselves spoke about: "Heinz's long arm", it seems that such sights appeared only in the late 40s?
      But I have doubts about the piercing shells: I met information somewhere that the Germans had too few of them, but mostly they used ordinary armor-piercing shells
      1. 0
        22 May 2019 15: 40
        among the Germans, subcalibers were widespread, but there were not many
        and for the one used to no avail (for example, in a car, or past or crookedly hit) the subcaliber (and it was expensive) the non-soldier could just rip off his skin = rot on cleaning sort. Therefore, they were sometimes not even used if available - they preferred to fire 10-15 rounds each in short-range missiles at first to no avail.
      2. 0
        24 May 2019 08: 46
        Normally, they had enough coils in their 41s and they enjoyed them with pleasure
    5. +3
      22 May 2019 13: 47
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Well, for example, the Germans developed excellent cumulative and sabot projectiles, which made it possible to successfully fight the Soviet bonetheshnik, even short-barreled guns with low ballistics, moreover, they set up their wide production.

      In fact, perhaps, exactly the opposite. Because both of them appeared rather late and in small quantities - besides, having a decent armor penetration and sub-caliber and cumulative had a very small armor-like effect, therefore, for a reliable defeat, it was necessary to literally stuff our tank with such projectiles.
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Well, for some reason, everyone ignores the beautiful sights with distance calculators, which allowed Germans to hit Soviet tanks from medium and large distances, literally the very first projectile.

      probably, that’s why, the overwhelming majority of Germans didn’t shoot long distances :))))
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      Further, the "armor" epic is not described, both in the Soviet tank forces and among the Germans, that is, there are jumps in the quality of armor.

      Because as of 1941-42, I did not see reliable documents about the fall in the quality of our armor, well, and the Germans began to deteriorate later
    6. Alf
      +3
      22 May 2019 20: 55
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      they established their widespread production, which made it possible to have these shells in sufficient quantities in the ammunition.

      PKS for PAK-40 during the whole war was released as many as 48 pieces.

      For 23 300 guns. Awesome enough.
  4. 0
    22 May 2019 07: 32
    From a photograph that depicts the T-IIIJ1 (?) He wrote to familiar modellers, he can help determine the exact model.
    1. 0
      22 May 2019 10: 07
      it is clear that the car is the first in the t3j series
      in later versions, the gun mask looked different and even armor pads were placed on the forehead
      in fact, gradually approached t3m
      About antennas, I do not understand everything
      I saw cars with only 2 and 3 antennas in the photo and video, but there’s only one
      1. 0
        23 May 2019 19: 46
        What Pz-III photo are we talking about? I see Pz-III L in camo DAK. With a gun mask disassembled, a frequent occurrence for three-ruble L. This was not noticed on J and N.
  5. +4
    22 May 2019 08: 25
    "Cognize everything in comparison, compare yourself with others." I love these articles!
  6. +1
    22 May 2019 08: 54
    a number of domestic 76,2-mm F-22 guns. In general, they liked the cannon, therefore, after certain modifications, including a chamber bore for using a larger charge and some other innovations, it entered the arsenal of the German army.

    After that, there is a photo of the gun on a single-deck carriage. Explicit error. A good article, respect to the author.
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 10: 36
      This is not a single-beam carriage. The shooting angle does not allow to see the second frame in the picture, and distorts the location of the one that is visible. Take a closer look - the bed comes to the carriage at the near wheel, and not along the axis of the gun. And the frame design is completely different - the single-beam carriage has a slot to provide an elevation angle, being divided into two branches.
  7. +10
    22 May 2019 11: 14
    “The fact is that with all its indisputable advantages, the PaK-40 could only be transported on a mechtyag. Moreover, as far as the author could figure it out, the car could only be enough for driving on the highway, but when towing on dirt roads or off-road, for the PaK-40 a specialized tractor was already required. Mobility on the battlefield was also considered limited, it was assumed that if the crew could roll the gun from one place to another, then no further than a dozen or two meters. "
    As for the movement of German artillery, I will try to clarify. In fact, horse-drawn traction in the Wehrmacht was used very widely. The number of horses in the infantry division reached 6000. Accordingly, horses were also used for towing artillery.
    1. +9
      22 May 2019 11: 19
      But on the Eastern Front, the Wehrmacht faced some transportation problems, including artillery transportation.
      1. +9
        22 May 2019 11: 27
        The study of the sad experience of using German wheeled, tracked, half-tracked vehicles and horse-drawn vehicles during the 1941-1942 campaign on the Eastern Front led the specialists of the Steyr company to the idea of ​​creating a simple in design and reliable artillery tractor with a tracked chassis. Taking as a basis the layout diagram of the Soviet transport tractors STZ-5 and Stalinets-2, captured by German troops in the summer of 1941, by the middle of 1942 they prepared a project for such a tractor - the Raupenschlepper Ost (Vostok tracked tractor).
        There were about 28 of them. And they were used mainly on the Eastern Front and mainly for towing anti-tank guns.
        1. +11
          22 May 2019 11: 30
          True, the transport problems were sometimes not solved by a caterpillar tractor.
          1. +10
            22 May 2019 11: 34
            Then I had to turn to the help of the horse again.
            1. +8
              22 May 2019 11: 39

              Broken tractor RSO and 7.5 cm Pak 40. Lost.
              1. +6
                22 May 2019 11: 59
                By the way, literally right after the development of the RSO tractor, the designers tried to "cross" it with the 7.5 cm Pak 40 cannon, getting a kind of tank destroyer.

                About a hundred of these machines were produced, but by the end of 1943 the work had ceased.
                1. +6
                  22 May 2019 14: 37
                  Greetings! hi
                  Thanks for the explanation and information!
                  Quote: Undecim
                  in fact, the horse-drawn carriage was used very widely in the Wehrmacht. The regular number of horses in the infantry division reached 6000 heads. Accordingly, the horses were used to tow artillery.

                  Of course, but, as I understand it, Pak 40 for horses was still heavy. This did not mean that the horses could not tow it at all, but, probably, the towing speed and distance were limping over all 8 or more hoofs. That is, a regular means, providing the necessary level of mobility, was nevertheless a mechtyag.
                  But it is clear that in some situations horses were used all the same - everything is better than to roll on hands.
                  I do not insist on my point of view as the only correct one.
                  1. +1
                    22 May 2019 15: 08
                    Armed artillery regiments (due to the lack of full-time systems) began to receive trophy systems. French 155-mm guns, Czech 150-mm and Soviet 122-mm howitzers were replaced by standard s.FH 18 howitzers, and instead of 105-mm leFH 18 Soviet trophy guns were introduced - 76,2 Cancer 36 (g) or 75 mm Polish, french. The guns were transported mainly by horse-drawn transport. The heavy 150-mm howitzer s.FH 18 was transported in the heavy division with separate carts — a separate trunk and carriage cart consisting of six horses. Oddly enough, horse traction had “some advantages” compared to mechanical traction.

                    The new states in the PD significantly limited the number of anti-tank guns in the division. In particular, in the infantry regiment now, instead of a company, there remained one platoon with three 75-mm Cancer-40s. For the divisional anti-tank battalion, several staffing options were provided. According to the basic version, three companies were foreseen: an anti-tank with 9 or 12 cannons of Cancer-40, assault guns with 10 self-propelled guns StuG III and anti-aircraft guns with 12 20-mm or nine 37-mm guns.

                    From the description of changes in German PD in 1943-44. Source:
                    Crimea 1944. Spring of Liberation. Tkachenko Sergey Nikolaevich

                    The advantages the author writes about are: the horse doesn’t eat or break gasoline, it’s easier to find a replacement, there were big problems with the cars when retreating.
                  2. +2
                    22 May 2019 15: 13
                    In the tank and motorized units, as well as in individual anti-tank battalions, the situation was somewhat different, the mech arm was there as the main one, but the infantry divisions, which were many times larger, mainly moved on horses. Here the exception is the anti-tank battalion, by the way.
                    1. +1
                      22 May 2019 18: 48
                      Quote: Potter
                      but the infantry divisions, which were many times larger, mostly rode horses. Here the exception is the anti-tank battalion, by the way.

                      EMNIP, in the infantry division, the motorized anti-tank division and the motorized reconnaissance battalion served as the backbone for the formation of advanced mobile groups, due to which the German frontier was more mobile than our SD.
                      1. 0
                        22 May 2019 23: 21
                        So for sure, only if the motorized units from a pair of divisions were brought together into a single combat group of the corps level, this would be a strong force in general. Motorized VET in the division, of course, is good, but it is too expensive and expensive for gas
                  3. +2
                    22 May 2019 23: 25
                    Good evening, colleague! the mass of the normative load on the Soviet horse is 330-350 kg for field artillery, for German perchers and 400 will go (the military is used to kilograms, although the same Grabin required counting in newtometers). Thus, 6 horses are easily driven by pack 40 with a light front end
                    There are a lot of nuances: from the front end to the different behavior of different tires on different soils, but, IMHO, pack 40 is quite capable of six
        2. +2
          22 May 2019 13: 40
          On the basis of which the skid tractor was made in the union after the war, in childhood I found such
          1. 0
            1 June 2019 17: 43
            five years ago in the Komi Republic such a winter guard was on duty between Ukhta and Nizhny Odesa. This is the northern stream 1
      2. +3
        22 May 2019 13: 42
        Epic photo, I'm sorry for cattle, it always suffers because of people
    2. +1
      22 May 2019 22: 22
      The statement about only on mehtag is a clear mistake, since six horses would have dragged her away. The truth is the availability of the front end, but IMHO you can improvise at least from leFH18.
  8. +4
    22 May 2019 12: 37
    Cancer'37 can be called the "parent" of our 45 mm. Before the war, a license for 37mm was purchased from Reinmetal, and a 37mm barrel was installed on the 45mm gun carriage. In 1941, these cannons were reliable assistants to our soldiers. The cannon, modernized in 1942, could withstand German tanks well. As a front-line soldier, commander of a battery of 82 mm mortars told me, this gun was at the end of 1942 and beginning of 1943 almost the only anti-tank weapon
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 13: 10
      Cancer'37 can be called the "parent" of our 45 mm. Before the war, a license for 37mm was purchased from Reinmetal, and a 37mm barrel was installed on the 45mm gun carriage.
      In 1930, Rheinmetall supplied to the USSR 12 37-mm experimental anti-tank guns 3,7 cm Tak, the future Pak 35/36. In the USSR, it was produced as a 37-mm anti-tank gun of the 1930 model.
      At the end of 1931, the designers of plant No. 8 in Podlipki installed a 37-mm anti-tank gun of the 1930 model, built according to the documentation purchased from the German company Rheinmetall, into the casing of a new 45 mm barrel and slightly strengthened the carriage.
      This system was put into service in March 1932 under the name "45-mm anti-tank gun of the 1932 model", at the factory the gun received the index 19-K.
      The 45-mm anti-tank gun of the 1937 model was created at the design bureau of plant number 8 in Podlipki under the leadership of M.N. Loginov by modifying the 45-mm cannon of the 1932 model, which is the result of the imposition of the 45-mm barrel on the carriage of the 37-mm anti-tank gun of the 1931 of the year - a licensed copy of the Rheinmetall cannon.
    2. +5
      22 May 2019 13: 45
      20 years ago, in the hospital, they lay in the same ward with a veteran front-line soldier, the artisan ZIS3, from his words, if the tiger was damaged from 500 meters, it was believed that it was very lucky, it was a pity that there was little talk
  9. +5
    22 May 2019 12: 37
    Quote: yehat
    there was no betrayal about the shells
    there was poverty, poor education, weak workforce
    and there was the influence of the harmful development of the Stakhanov movement, when the figures of the report became more important than the essence of the work.

    No backwardness is not the fault of the Stakhanov movement. The Soviet regime inherited backwardness and did everything possible and impossible to reduce it in a short peace time.
    1. +2
      22 May 2019 15: 51
      I didn’t get left behind from the Stakhanov movement, but tsarism is not entirely correct
      just do not forget that the First World War went on in Russia, and then the civilian one - the country actually fought from 14 to 21 years old, and then the internal war still went on until the mid-30s, just in a different form. The economy would be killed, even if the king lived in chocolate.
  10. +5
    22 May 2019 12: 44
    In this photo, the author probably did not guess the modification, but this is a “treshka” with a long-barreled tool.
    No, I guessed right.
    1. +6
      22 May 2019 12: 47
      It should be noted that the first 1600 Pz.III Ausf.J were armed with an 50-mm KwK 38 cannon with a barrel length 42 caliber.

      Just such a captured tank in the picture.
      1. +3
        22 May 2019 13: 51
        Quote: Undecim
        It should be noted that the first 1600 Pz.III Ausf.J were armed with an 50-mm KwK 38 cannon with a barrel length 42 caliber.

        Yes of course. Since it was produced in March 1941 g., But in December 1941 g began production with 60-caliber
        1. 0
          22 May 2019 23: 28
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          So it was produced in March 1941, but in December 1941 the production began with a 60-caliber

          All the same, since January 1942. It is written there.
          In fact, it was impossible to install the 60-caliber gun in the “troika” at that moment, since the tests of the new weapon began only on August 1 on the 1940 of the year and continued until the winter of the 1942.

          see Mikhail Baryatinsky "Hitler's armor. All tanks of the III Reich".
          1. +1
            23 May 2019 20: 00
            Quote: Saxahorse
            In fact, it was impossible to install the 60-caliber gun in the “troika” at that moment, since the tests of the new weapon began only on August 1 on the 1940 of the year and continued until the winter of the 1942.

            In my winter on 1942 g began in December 1941 g :)
            1. 0
              23 May 2019 23: 24
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              In my winter on 1942 g began in December 1941 g :)

              Baryatinsky specifically specified January, and then 40 pieces of cars were made with a long gun. However, this is not so important. Mention that the gun was not before the winter is the answer to the question why they didn’t put a long one right away.
      2. +1
        22 May 2019 15: 20
        Here, it seems, the entire column is entirely of trophies, I wonder where and when the picture was taken.
        By the way, Vic, you have a joke about Vovochkin’s dad.
        1. +1
          23 May 2019 23: 08
          A column of captured troop vehicles (tank Pz. III and three StuG III) on the Western Front, March 1942. On board the inscription "Death to Hitler!" (RGAKFD).
          Maxim Kolomiets
          TROPHY TANKS OF THE RED ARMY
          On the "tigers" to Berlin!
          In March 1942, captured tanks appeared in the Volkhov Front. In particular, they were armed with the third company of the 107th separate tank battalion of the 8th army. About how German tanks entered the service in the Red Army, P. Luknitsky told in his diary (in 1941-1944 he was a special correspondent for TASS on the Leningrad and Volkhov fronts).
          ... April 8, 1942 tanks of the 107th separate tank battalion (ten trophy, one KB and three T-34) supported the attack of the frequent 8th army and the Venyagolovo area. During that battle, N. Baryshev’s crew on the Pz. III, together with the battalion of the 1st separate mountain rifle brigade and the 59th ski battalion, broke through to the Germans to the rear. For four days, the tankers, together with the infantry, fought surrounded, hoping that reinforcements would arrive. But there was no help, and only on April 12, Baryshev with his tank went to his own, taking out 23 infantrymen on the armor - all that was left of the two battalions ...
    2. 0
      22 May 2019 15: 47
      look at the design of the mask and the location of the gun - this is at least ANOTHER series.
      part of the parts cannot be taken apart, but I suspect there are differences in the design of the case
      there is no mount on the turret.
  11. +1
    22 May 2019 17: 31
    Nevertheless, of course, the term "protivosnaryadnaya" to the full extent of all Soviet and German tanks was applicable to armor except for the KV-1 - its 75 mm armor plates really "did not want to" break through the Wehrmacht’s anti-tank artillery of the first year of the war.

    According to domestic shootings, the KV armor made its way through the 50-mm German anti-tank vehicle, with camcorder BBS. There were more than 1000 of these guns at the beginning of Barbarossa in units.
    Test result:
    50-mm anti-tank gun PaK.38, ordinary armor-piercing:
    The 75-mm sheet normal showed the back strength limit of 700 m, the through penetration limit of 400 m. That is, starting from a distance of 700 m and closer PaK.38 can penetrate unshielded HF armor, with 400 m it is guaranteed to break through.
    The 45-mm sheet along the normal showed the through penetration limit of 1500 m, at an angle of 30 degrees to the normal 1300 m.
    That is, PaK.38 confidently hits the T-34 in the side and the tower at any real combat distance.

    50-mm anti-tank gun PaK.38, sub-caliber:
    The 75-mm sheet normal showed the back strength of 870 m, the through penetration of 740 m, at an angle of 30 degrees to the normal of 530 and 470 m, respectively.
    The 45-mm sheet along the normal showed the through penetration limit of 1300 m, at an angle of 30 degrees to the normal 700 m.
    © D. Shein
  12. +4
    22 May 2019 17: 39
    On the one hand, it might seem that the Germans in 1942 were still focusing on the T-III, since they were produced 2 605 units. against 994 units T-IV, but in fact this year became the "swan song" of the "treshka". The fact is that the Germans in 1942 decided to expand the production of the T-IV: if 59 cars were produced in January, then in December their production almost tripled and reached 155 cars. Thanks to this, in 1943, it was possible to replace the T-III production with heavier and more advanced machines - although in December 1942 the production of T-III amounted to 211 cars, but in January 1943 only 46 cars were produced, and in just the first 6 months In 1943, only 215 tanks of this type were produced, that is, even less than 36 vehicles a month. And then the "treshki" finally left the assembly line.

    Not everything is so simple. ©
    From the above paragraph, we can conclude that the gravedigger of the "three-ruble note" seems to have become the "four". In fact, the production of the "four" went on at other factories, in parallel. The "three-ruble note" was devoured by the "Panther" not mentioned in the article - it was in her favor that the production of the "three-ruble note" was curtailed.
    Moreover, the "panther" was originally designed on the basis of the most painless transition to it from the "three-ruble note" - that's why it ate only the "three-ruble note", and the "four" remained in the series.
    1. +7
      22 May 2019 20: 06
      Quote: Alexey RA
      From the above paragraph, we can conclude that the gravedigger of the "three-ruble note" seems to have become the "four". In fact, the production of the "four" went on at other factories, in parallel. "Three rubles" was eaten by the "Panther" not mentioned in the article

      It is a perfectly fair remark, but, I think, without the build-up of the four, the Germans would hardly have ventured so sharply to curtail T-3 in favor of T-5. But, firstly, this is only my IMHO, and secondly, you are right, this should be written in more detail. hi
      1. +1
        23 May 2019 00: 10
        Andrey, thank you very much! As a tanker in the past, it was very pleasant and interesting to read. All my life I dreamed of riding a "Three", it seemed to be faster than a "thirty-four". hi
  13. +4
    22 May 2019 18: 17
    hi ... Thanks Andrew.
    .... Prior to the invasion of the USSR, the main anti-tank weapon of the Wehrmacht was the 37 mm Pak 35/36 "mallet".
    ... the "mallet" had two fundamentally irreparable flaws - the small armored action of the projectile and the ability to confidently hit only tanks with bulletproof armor. Accordingly, the German armed forces needed a new artillery system, and it became the 50-mm Pak 38.
    To fight medium and heavy Soviet tanks, the Wehrmacht needed a 75-mm anti-tank gun, and the Germans had this gun: we are talking about the famous 75-mm PaK-40.
    Nevertheless, an acceptable supply of PaK-40 ammunition was achieved only in 1943.
    1. +2
      23 May 2019 00: 02
      Well, this "Mallet", of course, dismantled T-26 and BTehu without any problems.
      Sanchez as always grand merci with full respect! good
  14. +1
    22 May 2019 18: 33
    “In terms of armor penetration, it is undoubtedly worthy of these delights. Suffice it to say that the PaK-40 fired an armor-piercing caliber projectile weighing 6,8 kg with an initial speed of 792 m / sec., While our famous 76,2- mm ZiS-3 - 6,5 kg with an initial speed of 655 m / s. "- Rather, it should be compared not with the ZIS-3, but with the 57mm ZIS-2. This is a truly magnificent anti-tank gun, which, unfortunately, was ruined by Kulik's efforts at first. The article is interesting, we are waiting for the continuation.
    1. +4
      22 May 2019 19: 02
      Quote: LeonidL
      Rather, it should be compared not with the ZIS-3, but with the 57mm ZIS-2. This is truly a magnificent anti-theft weapon, which unfortunately was first ruined by Kulik’s efforts.

      Through the efforts of Kulik, it was created. And further on, industry and the army tried to get the 57-mm anti-tank vehicles out of production. Some produced 57-mm barrels with epic labor and prices, and only at a couple of plants. And the second managed to lose so many divisions by September 1941 that even the maximum simplification of the design and a 10-fold increase in the production of 76-mm guns did not allow covering the army's requests. And I had to exchange one ZIS-2 for 3-4 SPM in production.
      1. Alf
        +1
        22 May 2019 21: 03
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Some produced 57 mm trunks with epic labor

        Little known fact. In the production of 88-mm barrels in 71 caliber out of every five barrels, FOUR went into marriage. The Germans thought that was normal.
  15. +2
    22 May 2019 18: 58
    ... Continuation of the epic:
    Self-propelled artillery mounts
    Let's start with the good old StuG III
    ... In parallel, Marder II Germans organized production and Marder III
  16. 0
    22 May 2019 19: 14
    ... Final Series:
    Tanks
    In 1942, the German armed forces finally abandoned the mass production of light tanks. In 1941, the mass production of the T-II and the Czech Pz Kpfw 38 (t) continued.
    ... T-IV. This combat vehicle was heavier and more spacious than the T-III

    feel ... for quotes - sorry hi
    1. +1
      23 May 2019 00: 06
      Once I saw the remains of the T-II: the chassis, the engine, and only one sidewall remained from the hull, no other damage was visible. It felt like he was just hit with a sledgehammer and "shreds along the lane" flew, I wonder what was actually put into him?
      1. +1
        23 May 2019 17: 13
        hi ... Or maybe they dismantled it for scrap? .. How many years has passed since then fellow
        ...though ........................................ recourse
        1. 0
          23 May 2019 23: 38
          Strong selection, impresses. Thank! good
  17. +1
    22 May 2019 23: 06
    Appendix 7. PRODUCTION OF GERMAN ARMORED MACHINES IN 1938-1945
    Model
    Quantity
    Years of production
    Tanks
    Panzerkampfwagen I
    1363
    1938-1942
    Panzerkampfwagen II
    1814
    1938-1942
    Panzerkampfwagen III
    6157
    1938-1943
    Panzerkampfwagen IV
    8544
    1938-1945
    Panzerkampfwagen V "Panther"
    5976
    1943-1945
    Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf E Tiger I
    1354
    1942-1944
    Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf B Tiger II
    489
    1944-1945
    Total:
    25 897
    1938-1945
    Self-propelled anti-tank guns
    Pz Jag Ferdinand
    90
    1943
    Jagdpanzer IV
    769
    1944
    Panzer IV / 70 (V)
    930
    1944-1945
    Panzer IV / 70 (A)
    278
    1944-1945
    jagdpanther
    392
    1944-1945
    Hunting tiger
    77
    1944-1945
    Total:
    2536
    1943-1945
    Assault guns
    Sturmgeschutz III 7,5 cm L / 24
    822
    1940-1942
    Sturmgeschutz III 7,5 cm L / 43 and L / 48
    8587
    1942-1945
    Sturmgeschutz IV
    1108
    1943-1945
    Total:
    10 517
    1940-1945
    Assault artillery
    Sturminfanteriegeschutze 33 V
    24
    1941-1942
    10,5 cm Sturmhaubitze
    1212
    1942-1945
    Sturmpanzer iv
    298
    1943-1945
    Total:
    1534
    1941-1945
    Self-propelled anti-tank guns
    7,5 cm Pak 40 (Sf) auf PzKpfw II
    476
    1942-1943
    7,5 cm Pak 40/1 (Sf) auf RSO Oak 40/2 (Sf) auf PzKpfw II
    60
    1943
    8,8 cm Pak 43/1 (Sf) auf PzKpfw III / IV
    494
    1943-1945
    Total:
    1030
    1942-1945
    Self-propelled artillery
    15 cm siG33 (Sf) auf PzKpfw
    12
    1941
    10,5 cm leFH18 / 2 (Sf) auf PzKpfw II
    676
    1943-1944
    10,5 cm leFH18 / 1 (Sf) auf Pz sf IV b
    8
    1943
    15 cm leFH18 / 1 (Sf) auf PzKpfw III / IV
    714
    1943-1945
    15 cm Pz Wefer 42 auf Maultier
    300
    1943-1944
    Total:
    1710
    1941-1945
    Self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
    8,8 cm FlaK 18 (sf) auf Zgkw 12 or 18t
    25
    1938-1939
    2 cm FlaK 30 or 38 (sf) auf Zgkw 1t
    1610
    1943-1944
    2 cm Flakvierling 38 (sf) auf Zgkw 8t 3,7 cm
    319

    Flakvierling 36 (sf) auf Zgkw 5t 3,7 cm
    339

    Flakvierling 36 (sf) auf Zgkw 8t
    123

    3,7 cm FlaK 36 (sf) auf FlaK PzKpfw IV
    240
    1944-1945
    3,7 cm FlaK 43 (sf) auf Ostwind I PzKpfw IV
    7
    1945
    Total:
    1663
    1938-1945
    Ammunition transporters
    Muntrager fur karl
    14
    1939-1941
    Sd Kfz 252
    413
    1940-1941
    VK 302
    28
    1941-1942
    Mun Fahrzeuge Wespe
    159
    1943-1944
    Mun Fahrzeuge Hummel
    157
    1943-1944
    Mun Kw fu Pz Werfer
    289
    1943-1944
    Total:
    1060
    1939-1944
    Half-tracked armored vehicles
    Sz Kfw 252
    6628
    1939-1945
    Sz Kfw 252
    15 252
    1939-1945
    Total:
    21 880
    1939-1945
    Armored vehicles / reconnaissance vehicles
    Kfz 13/14 and Sd Kfz 252 221/222/223/231/233/234/247/260/263
    4392
    1938-1945
    Total:
    72 219
    1938-1945
    Tucker-Jones Anthony The Great Tank Robbery. Hitler's captured armor
  18. +2
    23 May 2019 15: 45
    The German response in 1942 to the T-34 and HF was ineffective and was confirmed in battle.
    They came up with an effective answer only at the very end of the war. This is 8 cm PAW 600. Smooth-bore gun firing 81 mm cumulative plumage mines. Close to perfection mass weapons. The price of the cannon and ammunition is like that of a mortar, the initial speed is 520 m / s, the range is 6200 meters, the effective range for the target is 1 square meter. m. 750 meters, the consumption of explosives and gunpowder is minimal, 140 mm armor penetration. In addition, the gun is very effective and as a deputy infantry gun 75 mm. The production of 1000 guns and 5 million ammunition per month was not a problem. It could be klepat already in 1942 but they did anything, but not what was needed. The private industry only wanted to nail and produce its beloved child prodigies, and then it beat too late.
  19. 0
    24 May 2019 21: 11
    Needless to say, a Russian soldier paid for everything! He will endure everything ..........
  20. 0
    25 May 2019 09: 19
    The hull of the T-III tank was 510 mm shorter and the hull wider by 30 mm compared to the T-IV tank.
    In the T-IV building, it was possible to set up a tower with a large epaulet diameter due to overhead niches.
    It is quite possible that by changing the design of the T-III hull, it was also possible to install a new turret with a 75 mm gun with a barrel length of at least 43 caliber. If there is not enough body length, then lengthen it and add another road roller on each side. Instead of a broken front plate, install an inclined one. Remove the gunner with the machine gun. Was it worth bothering with Panther?
    1. +1
      25 May 2019 15: 16
      Quote: ignoto
      It is possible that due to a change in the design of the T-III hull, it was also possible to install a new turret with a 75 mm gun with a barrel length of at least 43 calibers on it. If there was not enough body length, then lengthen it and add another track roller on each side. Instead of a broken frontal sheet, install an inclined one. Remove the arrow with a machine gun.

      All this has been done. A new turret with a 75mm cannon was installed. Reworked the suspension. Modified the body, reinforcing the VLD up to 80mm and installing it obliquely. As a result, we got ... correctly - "Panther". smile
      "Panther" was developed since 1938 - as a single tank to replace a pair of "three-ruble" - "four". In 1942, the tank was tested and was ready for production. And why modify the "three-ruble note", spending time and money on this and getting the ultimate tank with a fully developed modernization potential (and it is not a fact that this tank will turn out in real terms - an increase in mass, a new engine, a new MTO, a new transmission)? After all, there is already a new much more powerful tank, moreover, optimized specifically for replacing the "three" in mass production?
      1. 0
        25 May 2019 15: 46
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Installed a new tower with a 75 mm cannon. Redesigned suspension.

        Well, as it were, harmonized suspension and gun. Those. For the first time, a special gun was developed for a specific tank, and not already adapted.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        "Panther" was developed since 1938 - as a single tank to replace a pair of "three-ruble" - "four".

        Not at all.
        Panther was developed as an MBT tank unit / Panzerwaffe unit. Together with her in the same parts / divisions, Pz.IV. were to serve on supporting roles. Although before the appearance of the Panthers (but after the appearance of the Tigers, who were actually special equipment), they served in these parts / divisions of the Panzervaffe as MBT. Those. panzervaffe with the advent of the Panthers made a qualitative leap forward.
        Do not read Guderian. Baron Munchausen sniffs enviously glancing in his direction.
  21. VME
    0
    25 May 2019 16: 29
    Hello, Andrey.
    Immediately I'm sorry for the malicious offtopic, but it’s impossible in another way.
    In one of the articles you mentioned that you have the main firing tables for naval guns. If possible, could you share them?
  22. 0
    27 May 2019 02: 09
    Not particularly in the minus article, but a bunch of artillery systems are not mentioned here, from the Pak-43, to the panzerbushes and puppens. The anti-tank capabilities of infantry guns are not reflected (especially with the advent of cumulative shells). The same 75mm "cigarette butts" on t-3, t-4, and early pieces with the help of cumulative shells, the same had the ability to hit the t-34. Also forgotten are shtug-4, yag-panzers 38 and 4, Pak-40, based on RSO and a bunch of cars with Pak-35/36 based on armored vehicles / tractors. To list everything, no articles will be enough, but if you just list them, many people will simply find out about their existence and will be able to dig up something themselves.
    1. 0
      27 May 2019 08: 20
      Quote: maximghost
      Not really in the minus article, but there are not mentioned a bunch of artillery systems, from the pack-43, to the panzerbush and puhchen.

      Why mention Pak 43 here if we are talking about the 42 year, and it began to be created at its end?
      Quote: maximghost
      Anti-tank capabilities of infantry guns are not reflected (especially with the advent of cumulative projectiles).

      Okolonulevye due to the meager amount of cumulative projectiles. We had plans, and even the launch of the T-34 with anti-cumulative screens was started, and then it was canceled due to the scanty losses from cumulative
      Quote: maximghost
      Just forgotten stuff-4, yag-panzer 38 and 4,

      Sir, you did not understand. This article is about the measures taken by the Germans in 1942, and not the review of the Reich VET over the entire period of WWII.
      1. 0
        27 May 2019 12: 44
        I repent, did not look carefully at the name.
        We had plans, and even the production of the T-34 with anti-cumulative screens was launched, and then canceled, due to the meager losses from the cumulative

        But at the same time the Germans created artillery systems that used only cumulative ammunition.
        1. 0
          27 May 2019 21: 08
          Quote: maximghost
          I repent, did not look carefully at the name.

          Coming :) hi drinks
          Quote: maximghost
          But at the same time the Germans created artillery systems that used only cumulative ammunition.

          I agree, but this is already 1944. And then yes, cumulative (at the level of faunters and co) already represented a serious danger
          1. 0
            27 May 2019 23: 49
            I agree, but this is already 1944. And then yes, cumulative (at the level of faunters and co) already represented a serious danger

            Well, I hinted at naupchen more)
  23. 0
    27 May 2019 09: 44
    Dear Andrei Nikolaevich, what about the famous 88-mm anti-aircraft gun used against tanks from the very beginning of the war?
    1. +2
      27 May 2019 16: 43
      Quote: Denis Razumov
      Dear Andrei Nikolaevich, what about the famous 88-mm anti-aircraft gun used against tanks from the very beginning of the war?

      Of course, but it's still an ersatz, dear Denis. That is, yes, they used it, but it was not for the intended purpose and the "akht-koma-akht" themselves were never transferred to the VET. The 88-mm anti-tank gun began to be sawed only later, the design began only at the end of 1942. But I'm still looking at tanks and anti-tank weapons.
      1. +1
        27 May 2019 21: 03
        Thanks, thanks!
  24. 0
    27 May 2019 10: 46
    We had plans, and even the production of the T-34 with anti-cumulative screens was launched, and then canceled, due to the meager losses from the cumulative

    The anti-cumulative screens on Soviet and American tanks were not used in 1945 when the losses from the cumulative charges were not beaten minuscule at all. Disadvantages from screens hit more than good.