Military Review

How the Germans stormed the Moonsund Islands

121
12-20 October 1917, the German assault and fleet stormed the Moonzund Islands in the Baltic Sea. It cost them 9 sunk ships and damage even more. At the same time, the Russian fleet lost two ships sunk and a number of damaged.


Landing in the Gulf of Taga

The Germans began the operation with aviation training. On the night of September 24-25, 1917, three airships dropped about 5700 kg of bombs on batteries in Tserel. On the evening of October 1, the Salis (Salasgriva) area was bombarded. The Germans dropped 8 tons of bombs on the port and the roads leading to it. On October 1, 5, 9 and 10, Russian batteries were bombed on Tserel, in Pernov and Ainazi, causing quite serious damage.

On October 10 (September 28 according to the old style) of 1917, the Albion operation itself began. The first group of invasion ships left Libava, consisting of the 1st and 2nd half-fleets of minesweepers, 4 destroyers and many auxiliary vessels. This group was supposed to pave the way for battleships and transports to the landing site. The next day, at 9 a.m., the second group of invasion ships left the Libava as part of the 30nd flotilla minesweepers, the 8th semi-flotilla of minesweepers, the 2nd flotilla of destroyers and 3 transports. Onboard the ships of the 2nd flotilla of destroyers and on transports, paratroopers of the forward detachment were found. The third group included the main forces of the fleet: the 3rd and 4th battalion squadrons, the Moltke battlecruiser, and the Emden light cruiser. From a possible attack by submarines, ships were guarded by destroyers of the 6th flotilla, the 13th and 15th half-fleets. The fourth group consisted of transports that covered the cruisers of the 2nd reconnaissance group.

How the Germans stormed the Moonsund Islands


The first three groups, focusing and taking order of battle, in 9 hours 15 min. am 11 october headed north. The next day, in the morning hours of 3, the battleships of the 3 squadron, together with the destroyers of the 2 fleet, were on a raid in Taga Bay. More than 1 thousand soldiers in motor boats moved to the shore. Behind them, without waiting for the late minesweepers of the 2 fleet, and risking to run into mines, transports of Corsica, Equity and Blitz, which were still more than 2 thousand soldiers, moved into the bay. Germans are lucky. On the mine, only the Corsica was blown up, and the victims were avoided. The nearby destroyers quickly took the soldiers from the transport to their aboard.

Landing is already in 5 hours 30 min. was on the shore. Three minutes before the battleships Kaiser, Prince Regent Luitpold and Kaiserin opened fire on the Russian battery on the west bank, and the battleships of the 3 squadron on the battery on the east bank. The fire of ship artillery was so powerful that the Russian batteries, after carrying out several volleys, fell silent. For half an hour, the Russian coastal defense was completely suppressed, and the landing force landed quietly. During the firing of the battleship "Grosser Kurfyurst" blew a mine, but did not leave the battle. It was only after noon that he began to move to Wilhelmshaven. The damage was minor and 18 November, the ship returned to service.

6 hours 45 min. transports with the second echelon of the landing force entered the bay. Only one Russian field battery bravely tried to stop his landing. The German infantry stormed the position. Since that time, no one opposed the landing. Almost at the same time, the battleships of the Friedrich der Grosse and König Albert squadrons of the 4 squadron, along with the destroyers of the 15 flotilla and the minesweepers, began according to plan a diversion operation, shelling the Svorbe peninsula. And the destroyers of the 3 semi-fleet fired at Russian airfields at Papensholm and Kilconde (Kihelkona).



Kassar

From the beginning of the landing operation, supremacy in Soalosund and on the Kassar Reservoir was of paramount importance both for the Germans and the Russians. In the case of the capture of Soelozund by the Germans, the Russians would not have been able to transfer their destroyers to the landing area of ​​the enemy troops through Kassar Bay. This envisaged a Russian defense plan. However, the bay's defense was very weak: one battery of 4 X-guns of caliber 120 mm at Cape Tofri (Dago Island). Therefore, the Germans quickly succeeded.

During the operation in Soalosund, the Germans used the battleship Bayern and the cruiser Emden. The battleship, advancing to the firing position, was shaken by a strong explosion. The signalmen, unable to withstand the nervous tension, immediately reported on the periscope of the submarine. The battleship's mine artillery opened heavy fire at an unknown enemy. In fact, Bayern was not hit by a submarine: the battleship hit a Russian minefield set up on 12 on August 1917, from the minzag Pripyat and minesweepers Gruz and No. 15. The Russian anchor shock-proof mine of the 1908 model of the year struck the battleship in the area of ​​the nose compartment of the onboard torpedo tubes, which was outside the main contour of the underwater protection - in the most unfortunate place for the ship. The explosion of a mine provoked an explosion of twelve compressed air cylinders. As a result, not only the compartment of the onboard torpedo tubes, but also the nose torpedo tube compartment was flooded. The ship took over 1000 tons of seawater and quickly began to sink into the water. However, an effective trimming system made it possible to quickly take water into the feed compartments and the ship’s screws remained under water. The transverse bulkhead separating the front compartment of the TA from the cellar of the ammunition ammunition, withstood the pressure of the water, allowing localization of the flooding of the hull. Therefore, the battleship decided to continue the execution of the combat mission.

In 6 hours of the morning, German ships approached the 20 cable distance to Cape Toffrey, after which Russian battery No. 34 opened fire on them, hitting the destroyer A-28. The Bayern and the light cruiser Emden opened fire on the battery, crushing it. On 7, the landing began. Not meeting resistance, the Germans moved to Orissaru. As soon as the Russian battery on Cape Tofri was silent, the Germans entered Kassar Bay and began trawling. Suddenly the Russian battery spoke again. Her calculation, after the completion of the shelling, returned to the guns. "Bayer" again opened fire from heavy guns and put down the battery. Then the destroyers landed troops at the Russian battery and the Germans blew up the guns.

Admiral Bakhirev found out about the enemy’s landing on the morning of October 12 and sent the destroyers “General Kondratenko” and “Border Guard” to clarify the situation in the Soelozund area. In the afternoon they met the German destroyer and the 3 minesweeper. Those moved under the cover of "Emden". 15 hours 30 min. five German destroyers entered Kassar Bay. By this time, the Russian forces in the Gulf had been increased by the cannon “The Terrible” and the destroyer “Desna” under the flag of Rear Admiral GK Stark. Then came the destroyers "Izyaslav", "Thunder", "Bully", "Samson" and "Novik". German and Russian destroyers fired at each other. At night, the Russian ships went to Moonzund, the Germans also retreated to the main forces.

October 13 Russian destroyers conducted reconnaissance in Soelosund. The cruiser "Emden" fired at them and forced them to retreat. All day, the Germans conducted trawling and reconnaissance in Soelozund and Kassar. On the morning of October 14, the 2-I flotilla of German destroyers, as well as the 12-I and semi-flotilla 13, entered Soelosund to occupy the eastern entrance to it and to Kassar. The offensive was launched with the support of the heavy artillery of the battleship “Bayern” and the guns of “Emden”. Both of these ships could not enter either the strait or the bay, since there it was too small for them. "Kaiser" seriously damaged the Russian destroyer "Thunder", he lost his turn. This was used by German destroyers, who began to fire at a fixed Russian ship. Gunbot "Brave" tried under enemy fire to move a towline, but failed. The Germans landed on the Russian destroyer, but when they tried to tow it to the shore, the Thunder sank. The Russian ships retreated to Moonsund. Thus, the Germans occupied Soelozund and Kassar Reach. The left flank of the German airborne corps was securely covered.

Meanwhile, German troops developed an offensive on Ezel. Russian troops retreated to Orissaru and the Svorbe peninsula. October 12 fell Ahrensburg, where previously the Russian destroyed all military facilities and warehouses. The German fleet was ordered to subject the Tserel peninsula to heavy fire. This task was performed by the battleships Friedrich der Grosse, König Albert, and Kaiserin with 6 destroyers. Simultaneously with the ship bombardment, Russian positions on the 14 peninsula of October were attacked by German infantry. The resistance was weak and the next day the German troops took the peninsula. The two batteries on Tserele (120-mm and 130-mm guns) became their trophies. The Russians managed to disable the battery of 305-mm guns.

October 15 Germans forces 2-th flotilla and 13-th semi-flotilla destroyers blocked the eastern entrance to Kassar. At the same time, the flotilla of the minesweepers, whose draft was small, entered the Small Zund to support the troops that stormed Orissar. Fire ships were mainly led by a bridge and a stone dam that connected the island of Muon with Ezel. Destroyers of the Russian 13 division battled into German minesweepers from a great distance, and together with Novik, they were stationed in the eastern part of Kassar. In the battle took part the cruiser "Admiral Makarov" and heavy guns located in the area of ​​Kuivast. The Russians opened fire on the enemy minesweepers twice during the day, but the Germans, with short breaks, continued shelling our positions at Orissara and on the island of Mawn. However, it turned out that it is impossible to enter Monnzund from the side of Kassar. Shallow depth did not allow heavy German ships to approach Moonsund. While the Russian ships could freely maneuver in Moonund, deepened during the war years. The attack on Kuivast, an important base of the Russian fleet in the Gulf of Riga, could only be carried out from the south.

On the same day, the Germans suffered losses on Russian mines set in Kassar. The B-98 destroyer suffered the most severe injuries. B-100 and B-112 suffered less. On the same day, a German landing force landed on Dago Island. The landing was supported by the Emden cruiser. The next day, the Germans landed reinforcements on the island and continued to capture Dago. They did not encounter any particularly strong resistance. The flotilla of minesweepers continued fire support for the troops from Orissar. Suddenly, for the Germans, the Russian battleship "Glory" entered the battle, firing the enemy with 12-inch guns. At the same time, Russian destroyers and gunboats appeared in the eastern part of Kassar Reservoir. After the shootout, they came back.


The linear ships at Moonsund. October 1917

Gulf of Riga

After the capture of the Svorbe peninsula, the route to the Gulf of Riga was opened. The only obstacle for the Germans remained minefields. Minesweepers to 16 October cleared the strait of mines. On the morning of this day, a detachment of German ships — the battleships König and Kronprinz, the light cruisers Kohlberg, Strasbourg and Augsburg, the destroyers 8 and the 20 semoflotilla, and also minesweepers and transports — Gulf of Riga. The detachment went to Ahrensburg, which was to become the main port of the expeditionary forces. The Germans were afraid of mines, so they moved slowly.

11 hours 30 min. The commander of the 3 squadron, Vice Admiral P. Benzke, received an order from Vice Admiral Schmidt to attack the Russian ships in Moonzund and the Gulf of Riga with all their might. This was supposed to speed up the implementation of the second phase of the operation. Vice Admiral Bentske decided to send a light cruiser Augsburg to Arensburg with transports and a part of minesweepers, and with the rest of the ships to go to the south entrance to Moonzund and stay there for the night to start fighting in the morning.

October 17 Admiral Schmidt began the second phase of the operation. He ordered to attack the base of the Russian fleet in Kuivast and destroy the Russian ships. This task was facilitated by the fact that the Germans acquired a map of minefields in the southern part of Moonzund. 3-I squadron of German battleships, having in front of a strong detachment of minesweepers and guarded by destroyers from submarines, was to attack Kuivast from the south, destroying along the way Russian fortifications and batteries on the islands of Werder and Mawn.

The first report of the appearance of enemy ships, Admiral Bakhirev, received from the destroyer Active, which was located south of the mine obstacle in Moonsund. Having got under attack of the opponent, our destroyer went to the north. The Germans set about trawling Russian mines at the southern entrance to Moonsund. The battleships Slava, Citizen (formerly Tsesarevich) and the armored cruiser Bayan on the orders of Vice-Admiral Mikhail Bakhirev set off towards enemy forces and opened fire on the minesweepers. "Glory" from a distance close to the limit, shelled the German battleships, covering minesweepers. "Citizen" and "Bayan" continued at this time shelling minesweepers. The German battleships responded, but their shots did not reach the position of "Glory". Glory has also never been hit, although some of its shells fell near the König. As a result, the Germans, seeing the inconvenience of their position in the narrowness that made it difficult to maneuver, retreated.

In 10 hours, the climax of the naval battle. "Glory", "Citizen" and "Bayan" headed south. Towards advanced enemy battleships. Started a shootout. "Citizen" for half an hour of battle received six hits, "Bayan" - three. Started strong fires. But most of all went to "Glory." “Konig” from the third volley covered the Russian battleship in three hits. The first shell hit the bow, piercing the armor under the waterline and exploding inside the bow of the dynamo, causing it, as well as the cellar of nasal 12-inch ammunition and other compartments in the nose, were flooded. The ship took 1 130 tons of water, got trim on the nose. The third projectile hit the left side armor belt opposite the engine room, but did not break through it. 10 hours 24 min. another two shells hit the ship, hitting the front chimney, they damaged the six-inch shell cellar and the front boiler room; a fire broke out that was put out. After some time, two more shells led to the flooding of the coal bunker. Around the same time, 6 of German hydroplanes attacked Russian ships and dropped 40 bombs, but none of them hit the target.

Bakhirev ordered the ships to depart the fairway in Moonsund. The battleship "Glory" had to go last out of fear that it could sink and close the rest of the escape route. However, the flow in the holds of "Glory" increased so much that the ship could not leave along with the rest of the fleet through the Strait of Moonsund. Then the admiral ordered the battleship to be flooded across the fairway, blocking the enemy’s way north. Soon the ship lay on the pitfalls to the south-east of the entrance to the strait. The destroyers removed the crew from the ship, after which around 12 hours the cellar of the aft 12-inch turret was blown up. The explosion was considered insufficiently strong, so three destroyers were ordered to finish off the ship with torpedoes. After hitting one of the six torpedoes fired at the Glory, the ship lay down on the ground with a hole in the port side in the chimney area. Despite the flooding of "Glory", the fairway was free. However, the Germans could not pursue the Russian ships because of the shallow water in the northern part of the strait.

The cruisers and minesweepers marching from 3 of the German squadron of battleships were turned to the north-west at the entrance to Moonsund and landed troops on Món Island for an assault from ground in the position of an artillery battery in the village of Voya. Cruisers fired at the Russian battery. 15 hours 45 min. landing landed. After a while, it was reported that the battery was taken without a fight. In the evening of the same day, the German destroyers entered the Moonzund from the side of the Kassar Reservoir. In 23 hours 20 min. the destroyer S-64 hit a mine near the island of Schildau. The damaged ship was blown up, and the remaining destroyers returned.

October 18 German troops continued to seize the islands of Móon and Dago, without encountering resistance. Around noon, the cruiser “Strasbourg” with destroyers and minesweepers, after a small skirmish with the Russian destroyers, took to the Kuivast raid. Then the battleships approached, and the ground forces completely captured Mawn.

The Russian command expected to continue the battle with the German fleet, but the crews of the two destroyer divisions refused to obey orders. As a result, on October 18, in order to prevent the German squadron from breaking through, several transport vessels were flooded on the orders of Admiral Bakhirev in the Moonsund Strait. Along the way, part of the garrisons of the islands of Món and Dago were evacuated. Most of the Russian island garrison was captured.

To cover the retreat of Russian ships from Moonzund the Gulf of Finland, the German command sent to the north of Dago 4-th squadron of battleships (without the "Kaiser»), 2-th Intelligence Group, 6-th fleet and 13-th poluflotiliyu destroyers with trawlers. The submarines were supposed to place mines on both sides of the island of Worms on possible escape routes of the Russian fleet. Having placed mines, the submarines were to remain in the area and wait for the Russian ships. But on October 19, the command canceled the operation of the 4 th battleship squadron, as minesweepers could not free the battleships from the strong storm. This allowed the Russian ships to retreat. Bakhireva's squadron waited for the storm near Worm Island, but after learning about the enemy’s plan, the Russians began trawling. The mines set by the German submarine were cleared, and in the morning of October 20, Russian ships arrived at Lapvik.


The landing of the German troops

Results

German armed forces seized the Moonsund archipelago and secured dominance in the Baltic. Russian armed forces suffered another serious defeat. The battle cost the Germans 9 sunk ships and damage even more (including the 3 battleship). At the same time, the Russian fleet lost two ships sunk (the destroyer "Thunder" and the battleship Glory ") and a number of damaged.

The losses of the German assault were insignificant and amounted to about 400 people killed, wounded and missing. Russian casualties by prisoners amounted to 20 130 people, the losses killed and wounded were relatively small. The Germans captured large trophies - 141 gun, 130 machine guns, 10 aircraft, a huge number of different stocks.

These were the last battles of the German fleet in the Baltic Sea in 1917. 7 December 1917, Russia and Germany signed a truce.


Blown battleship "Glory", lying on the ground. German Postcard
Author:
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Entente plans for 1917 year: bet on a decisive victory in the war
Russian army to the beginning of the 1917 campaign of the year: the approach of the general collapse
Attack without shot: Mitav operation
How Germany began the unlimited submarine war
German submarine vs UK
How the German submarine fleet tried to crush the "mistress of the seas"
The United States used the myth of "inhuman" submarine warfare to oppose Germany
Caucasian front in 1917 year. Baratov corps offensive in southwestern Persia
Mosul operation. How the British, until recently, tried to use the Russian "cannon fodder"
The war of the USA and England against Europe and Russia for absolute power on the planet
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How did the USA profit from World War I
"War will end wars." USA in the First World War
World War I turned the United States into a leading world power
"Nivel Meat Grinder"
Tenth Battle of the Isonzo
The failure of the "offensive of Kerensky"
"It was no longer the former Russian"
As Greece at gunpoint forced to go to war
The revival of the Romanian army: the battle of Marashti and Maraseshti
Operation "Albion"
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  1. Conductor
    Conductor 11 October 2017 07: 09 New
    +5
    Thank you for the article . As Andrei from Chelyabinsk said, the old battleships against the battleships did not play at all.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 October 2017 14: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: Conductor
      Thank you for the article . As Andrei from Chelyabinsk said, the old battleships against the battleships did not play at all.

      To be precise, 3 old EDBs played against one LC. smile
      1. Grafova Irina
        Grafova Irina 13 October 2017 03: 18 New
        +2
        Why three?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 13 October 2017 13: 11 New
          +1
          Because the old "Three Saints" and "Rostislav" basically portrayed extras. Remain "John Chrysostom", "Eustache" and "Panteleimon".
          As practice has shown, 2 EDB for LCR is still not enough: “Eustache” maneuvers under fire and can’t aim fire, and “John Chrysostom” can’t shoot at all. But with the approach of “Panteleimon” everything is getting better.
          So 3 EDBs even with a battle distance of 100 kbt - just right. smile
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 13 October 2017 15: 10 New
            +1
            Alexey hi , Irina becomes attached to the Baltic Sea on the topic of discussion, therefore she asks how there can be three EDBs, if there were only 2 in the presence of fights - “Glory” and “Tsesarevich” repeat I guess so winked
            1. Grafova Irina
              Grafova Irina 15 October 2017 00: 21 New
              +2
              good That is how
              . I’ll try to publish my "odds" here ... On them, "in the net", both our EDBs didn’t "play" against the fact that the "German" had ... But (!) There are a lot of randomness ...
          2. Grafova Irina
            Grafova Irina 15 October 2017 00: 22 New
            +2
            What are you talking about? We are about Baltic Fleet
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 11 October 2017 07: 27 New
    +4
    As the saying goes .. the last chord ... and the string burst ..
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 11 October 2017 12: 39 New
      +7
      Thanks so much for the article! Today I read both.
      Yes, the country was on the verge of collapse and enslavement, and only because the Bolsheviks came to power did not happen. And then??? In the 90s, the country was again on the verge of complete collapse. But the danger still exists! Does its own history teach nothing !!! After all, the territory of Russia in all ages has inspired envy, malice both to its immediate neighbors and to distant countries!
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 11 October 2017 13: 05 New
        +3
        Quite the contrary, it was with the advent of the Bolsheviks that the country fell apart and was enslaved by the Germans.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 11 October 2017 13: 29 New
          +8
          What reality are you writing from? And to the Bolsheviks, what do you think, did it flourish? Especially in 1917, especially after February, before the Great October Revolution.
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 11 October 2017 13: 57 New
            +3
            Did not flourish. But with the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks, everything became incomparably worse
        2. venaya
          venaya 11 October 2017 14: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: Gopnik
          .. it was with the advent of the Bolsheviks that the country fell apart and was enslaved by the Germans

          Would you really explain who exactly do you mean by the amazing term "Germans", the term itself is young and it is quite possible that Ashkenazi are hiding under it? Yes, and the country itself is called by the inhabitants of the country "Deutschland", and not by some foreign terms that are foreign there. As you begin to study all sorts of stories, it’s amazing how not you are given the logical presentation of the material in them.
        3. Fitter65
          Fitter65 11 October 2017 15: 24 New
          +7
          for those who have a saucepan instead of a hat, the article describes the events before the October Revolution (if you want the October Revolution) The authorities were like democrats or liberals. Thank you democratized. And why the Bolsheviks went to the Brest Peace we won’t think we’ll just yell that they gave the country to the German ... Well, yell.
        4. badens1111
          badens1111 11 October 2017 16: 24 New
          +6
          Quote: Gopnik
          Just the opposite,

          You give up do not understand what to write about.
          On October 20, 1917, the Moonsund Islands were completely captured by the Kaiser troops. The German fleet entered the Gulf of Riga. In conclusion, we can cite a resolution of the flagship council of the Russian Baltic Fleet: “The circumstances of the Germans taking the Moonsund position show that the ground units have lost all resistance to the will of the enemy. From start to finish, this operation is full of examples of the complete decline in the spirit of our troops and the extreme susceptibility to panic and rebellion of people mad with fear. ”

          Of course, you can explain the reasons for the defeat of the revolutionary mood of the masses and the reluctance of soldiers to fight, but the German General Staff is not the organization where, when planning the largest landing operation, which will involve almost the entire linear fleet of the Empire, they will rely on the mood of the masses. The German command was firmly convinced that the only force that could interfere with the operation — the Russian linear fleet — would not go to sea from its bases in Kronshtat, Helsingfors and Reval.

          The fall of the defense of the Moonsund Islands negatively affected the entire situation of the Russian Western Front. The Kerensky government decided to evacuate Petrograd. Two weeks later, the Provisional Government was overthrown and the Bolsheviks came to power.
          Those that later soaped the withers, including for Moonsund 1 of world Germany.
          They would be silent, but not speculating on the tragedy and feat of the Tech-Pak on those islands and the Navy.
          http://www.moremhod.info/index.php/library-menu/1
          6-morskaya-tematika / 251-zabytyj-moonzund? Showall =
          1
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 11 October 2017 16: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: badens1111
            Those that later soaped the withers, including for Moonsund 1 of world Germany.


            yeah, they "soaped" them so much that they draped almost to Petrograd and signed the infamous Brest Peace.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 11 October 2017 18: 04 New
              +7
              Quote: Gopnik
              yeah, so "soaped" that they draped almost to Petrograd and signed the infamous Brest Peace

              To school, jogging.
              1. Gopnik
                Gopnik 11 October 2017 18: 19 New
                +2
                To teach people like you? Thanks, learn somehow yourself
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 12 October 2017 10: 27 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Gopnik
                  To teach people like you

                  You have to teach someone, dishonor yourself, so go to school, learn lessons.
  3. Andy
    Andy 11 October 2017 07: 54 New
    +3
    yeah, shameful page. knowing that they will hold on to mine-artillery positions, these positions will not be strengthened or defended. what is the use of two batteries of 305mm guns if they were bypassed from the flank. and this is the third year of the war. although defense was supposed here before the war. inaction of the "best" leopard type pl
    1. tanit
      tanit 11 October 2017 09: 01 New
      +1
      Well, if you think in your style ... the last Glorious Victory was at Sinope. Further, there was no victory for the fleet. Heroic battles, yes. But there is no naval victory. And what - a "shame" to the fleet, or what?
      1. Andy
        Andy 11 October 2017 09: 14 New
        +5
        but there were contractions, an unhindered landing? inaction pl and 4 Sevastopol and 2 first-called. Well, I kind of clearly wrote that the line of defense was supposed here long before the war. somewhere around 10. From about 12, the construction of the Peter the Great Fortress began. with 15 pecked a cock- German breakthrough in the Gulf of Riga and? They put two batteries well shot from the flank and rear, but without round-fire with their guns. As a result, at 18 Germans calmly from land occupied the main base of the Revel fleet ... even the forts of Port Arthur were detained by the Japanese, but here ...
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 October 2017 16: 15 New
          +5
          Quote: Andy
          inaction pl

          Judging by the results of the Russian submarines of the BF, their действие differed little from inaction.
          Quote: Andy
          and 4 Sevastopol and 2 first-called

          And where do they act? Do you know that “Glory” barely crept through the Strait of Moonsund, and only after deepening during the war?
          And leading “Seva” and “Andreev” through the Irbens means meeting with the HZF, which needs a victory, but really does not want to fight for it for lime. And here is such a gift - 4 fruits of illegitimate coitus of a battleship and battlecruiser, which inherited speed from LC, and from LCR - booking. Ashes of Tsushima pounded in the hearts of our admirals - and reached out to LK with a 225 mm belt and 203 mm towers. sad
          Quote: Andy
          and from about 12 began the construction of the Peter the Great Fortress. with 15 pecked a cock- German breakthrough in the Gulf of Riga and? They put two batteries well shot from the flank and rear, but without round-fire with their guns.

          Was there a choice? An armored tower battery, provided that the towers are ready by the time they are installed, is built for 4 years. Battery No. 43 was started by construction in 1916.
          Why didn't you start earlier? Yes, because they used to hastily finish building the main line of defense - TsMAP - which at the beginning of the war had the largest caliber, EMNIP, 8 "(and often on temporary grounds).
          Quote: Andy
          As a result, at 18 Germans calmly from land occupied the main base of the Revel fleet ... even the forts of Port Arthur were detained by the Japanese, but here ...

          If in Port Arthur a soldier und matrosen would be chasing the streets in order to put an ahvitseryer on bayonets, then the Japanese would have occupied him in the same way as the Germans Revel.
          1. Grafova Irina
            Grafova Irina 15 October 2017 01: 19 New
            +3
            The "armored battery" is cool ... The turretless battery is even cooler lol
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 15 October 2017 08: 35 New
              +1
              Quote: Grafova Irina
              The "armored battery" is cool ... The turretless battery is even cooler lol

              Well why. Even then, it occurred to me to put tower guns on coastal batteries wink

              305 mm tower battery at TsMAP, Nargen Island, 16th year
              1. Grafova Irina
                Grafova Irina 15 October 2017 11: 05 New
                +2
                Yes, I was trying to make a "joke of humor" ...
                Just, in my opinion, the expression "armored turret ..." is about the same as "buttered butter ...". By no means reproach Mr. Alexei.
                There is such a “researcher” of the history of the fleet under the surname Taras A.E. — he also deduced as truth that the ships had “armored” installations ...
                The guns are not divided into tower, "reckless" or "flat-lying" .... They are divided according to their purpose. But where they put them - then they get the necessary classification. Therefore, the best in their "class" 12 "of our dreadnoughts were equally successfully used in armaments of coastal defense and even railway transporters. And the latter, by the way, were precisely" crazy "... wink
                1. Rurikovich
                  Rurikovich 15 October 2017 12: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: Grafova Irina
                  Yes, I was trying to make a "joke of humor" ...

                  Yes we get it smile
                  Quote: Grafova Irina
                  Just, in my opinion, the expression "armored turret ..." is about the same as "buttered butter ...". By no means reproach Mr. Alexei.

                  So it was used at that time request Here Alexey brought him repeat
                  1. Grafova Irina
                    Grafova Irina 15 October 2017 14: 04 New
                    +3
                    I don’t argue ... Maybe such a term existed (I personally did not meet it) Armored towers - that is, armored towers ... Well, what else could be on warships? If you do not take into account the open installation of anti-aircraft guns. And then, as far as possible, they were surrounded by anti-fragmentation barbets or supplied with shields directly on the installations themselves.
                    Okay, we somewhat avoided the topic ... At that time (time) there were only towers - and that they are armored - this is understandable without any admonitions. Yes, only half towers had light powers - at best. But we are not talking about them. Capital Ship of all countries had the main task of their reservation as much as possible to secure their artillery and means of its proper functioning. Because the "non-armored" towers could not be in principle
            2. Andy
              Andy 2 November 2017 11: 51 New
              0
              girl, and you laugh in vain. Alexey said correctly.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 11 October 2017 09: 32 New
      10
      Quote: Andy
      yeah shameful page

      The shameful page began on February 23 of the 1917 year and this is not the fault of the Russian Imperial Navy!
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 11 October 2017 09: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: Serg65
        The shameful page began on February 23 of the 1917 year and this is not the fault of the Russian Imperial Navy!

        Loud, but not at all smart.
        Why are you repeating tales of completely cross-eyed from the lies of Mitin and Gozman? Including from Radio Liberty? Https: //www.svoboda.org/a/436322.html
        For the moderator, see the photo of both, so that you do not think that this is an insult.
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 11 October 2017 09: 57 New
          +8
          Quote: badens1111
          Loud, but not at all smart.

          And what is wrong? After the February Revolution, the combat effectiveness of the fleet began to roll down. The crews no longer want to obey orders - "they shoot there, we won’t go," the officers, fearing to be taken with bayonets, already actually give power to ships to the revolutionary committees request This is a statement of fact. And all this was already openly revealed in the battles for Moonzund. Failure of Pripyat to lay mines, refusal of destroyers to continue the battle after the flooding of Glory. Little, or what? After all, the Fleet did not make February, He is only a victim of circumstances yes
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 11 October 2017 10: 02 New
            +3
            Quote: badens1111
            Why are you repeating tales of completely cross-eyed from the lies of Mitin and Gozman? Including from Radio Liberty? Https: //www.svoboda.org/a/436322.html

            Did I dispute the actions of the Fleet?
            I wrote only about the phrase, giving another slander and a tub of dirt from an information resource, which has always been a weapon of the information war against Russia, even in the form of the USSR, has remained so now.
            And the February revolution, made by the bourgeois and part of the aristocrats, in a compartment with the merchants, is completely different than the date of February 23. The front is not ruined by the Bolsheviks, as some try to tell a fairy tale, the front was ruined by the actions of Guchkov, Milyukov and other lions with Kerensky. 1 whose
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 11 October 2017 10: 19 New
              +6
              Quote: badens1111
              I wrote only about the phrase giving another slap and a tub of mud from an information resource

              laughing "informresurs"? I beg of you! laughing I’m wondering when they show you a red rag, do you immediately have enuresis or delay ???
              Quote: badens1111
              The front is not ruined by the Bolsheviks, as some here try to tell a fairy tale

              I have somewhere slipped the word "Bolsheviks" ??? wassat
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 11 October 2017 11: 01 New
                +1
                Quote: Serg65
                - you immediately begin enuresis or with a delay

                You have it right away, in a heap with diarrhea. Why would it be?
                Quote: Serg65
                I have somewhere slipped the word "Bolsheviks" ???

                Quote: Serg65
                Rurikovich Today, 09:57

                Is this your second nickname that you got so excited about?
                Quote: Serg65
                "informresurs"?

                Radio Liberty and so on, what if not the information resource of the information war? Bliss already or what?
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 11 October 2017 11: 49 New
                  +4
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Is this your second nickname that you got so excited about?

                  laughing laughing laughing Rurikovich and Serg65 are twin brothers !!!!!! crying oh ash wept!
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Radio Liberty and so on, what if not the information resource of the information war?

                  Young man, as I understand it, you are not listening to Radio Liberty for the sake of interest ??? This is a dangerous occupation for a young communist organism. lol
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 11 October 2017 16: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Young man, as I understand it, you are not listening to Radio Liberty for the sake of interest ??? This is a dangerous occupation for a young communist organism.

                    For yours, yes, it’s you repeating the fact that there are all kinds of “experts” of a dubious mind and origin.
                    But here you’ve sprinkled something about Dybenko, bashfully saying that he wasn’t proud. And the country didn’t take pride in his last name and “feats” and is celebrating it on February 23. Below you are given an answer, a fan of all gossip and filth, about 23 and the following days of February.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 12 October 2017 10: 19 New
                      +4
                      Quote: badens1111
                      You then dipped something about Dybenko, bashfully keeping silent that he was not something. You were proud of it and not by his last name and “exploits”, the country noted and marks 23 of February.

                      laughing Sometimes it seems to me that you are a woman! Purely feminine ... I’ll come up with something, and then I’ll be offended by it! Either the Bolsheviks seem to me in my words, then I poured mud on the feast of the Soviet Army and Navy ?! Drink, my friend, aspirin for the night - blood dilutes the blood and normalizes the pressure!
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 12 October 2017 16: 14 New
                        0
                        Quote: Serg65
                        Sometimes it seems to me that you are a woman!

                        Do you have hallucinations? Have a drink of valerian, calm your sore nervous system and read your new nonsense.
                2. Rurikovich
                  Rurikovich 11 October 2017 12: 56 New
                  +3
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Is this your second nickname that you got so excited about?

                  Two accounts are prohibited from having site rules! soldier Teach materiel wink hi
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 11 October 2017 13: 02 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Rurikovich
                    Teach materiel

                    laughing Bes beguiled! hi
            2. Ryazan87
              Ryazan87 11 October 2017 10: 22 New
              +4
              "Order number 1, whose?" - Order No. 1 was issued by the United Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies. By March 2 (15), 1917, the Executive Committee of the Council consisted of 36 members, among whom were 7 Bolsheviks (+ Mensheviks). Kerensky, by the way, was a part too.
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 11 October 2017 10: 38 New
                +3
                Quote: Ryazanets87
                "Order number 1, whose?" - Order No. 1 was issued by the United Petrograd Soviet of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies. By March 2 (15), 1917, the Executive Committee of the Council already consisted of 36 members, among whom were 7 Bolsheviks

                And? Order signed by whom?
                Active participation in the development and editing of the text of the order was taken by such famous "defenders" as the Menshevik Semyon Klivansky and the factional social democrat, secretary of the executive committee of the Petrosovet ND Sokolov (as of February 1917 - sworn attorney, social democrat, friend of Kerensky and Chkheidze) .
                Questions?
                More than others, Alexander Fedorovich Kerensky is to blame. After all, he was a member of the Council, which wrote and issued the order; he was the minister of government, who was able to strangle in the bud the catalyst for the decomposition of his own army. Kerensky could have prevented all this twice!

                But he didn’t do this, but, on the contrary, helped the order to be born, although it is not at all difficult to foresee its consequences. And having become Minister of War on May 5, 1917, Kerensky only four days later issued his “Order for the Army and Navy,” very close in content to Sokolovsky; they began to call him the "declaration of the rights of a soldier."
                July 16, 1917 General A.I. Denikin said in the presence of Kerensky:
                “When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks served as the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. Others ruined the army ... The military legislation of recent months has ruined the army. ”
                This is directly related to the lamentation of the Bolsheviks.
                Any questions?
                1. Ryazan87
                  Ryazan87 11 October 2017 10: 58 New
                  +2
                  If you want to continue the discussion, change the tone.
                  There are a lot of questions.
                  Including the personality of Nikolai Dmitrievich Sokolov, who "... After the October Revolution, he worked as legal adviser to the Soviet government."
                  By the way, the Bolsheviks completely participated in the development of the order - including, no less interesting character - Alexander Shlyapnikov.
                  R.S. - I'm glad, of course, that you can google: http://russobalt.org/forum/topic/787274-prikaz-%E
                  2% 84% 96-1-kak-etalon-razvala-armii /
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 11 October 2017 16: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: Ryazanets87
                    There are a lot of questions.

                    A lot, yes, but not in that extremely dirty and hysterical interpretation that brings down from every kind of gopniks.
                    The Bolsheviks would have blamed the Bolsheviks for the main and overwhelming part of the blame, on the Provisional Government and Kerensky. One should not have taken power in October, but in July. You would have looked and there would have been no consequences arising with 1 order, but this is already so, fortunetelling on coffee grounds .
                    The story took place as it took place.
                    And some people wouldn’t forget that they spit in the past. They will drown themselves in the present. For the country of Mankurts cannot exist, but relying on the historical rubbish of beaten Februaryists and other Belys, having before their eyes the facts of their cooperation with Hitler is not just a vile thing, but something else, like the example of Denikin, so beloved by some. that the Americans suggested how to ruin the country in his little book from 1946.
                    1. Ryazan87
                      Ryazan87 11 October 2017 17: 28 New
                      +2
                      "... it was necessary not to take power in October, but in July. You look and there would be no consequences arising from 1 order, but this is already so, fortune-telling on coffee grounds." - That is, the Bolsheviks in your interpretation did not approve Order No. 1? And did not support the decomposition of the army? So?
                      And yet, guess at once whose quotes:
                      "To abandon the slogan of defeat is to turn your revolutionism into an empty phrase or hypocrisy alone." and “When the Italian Social Democrats raised the question of a mass strike before the war, the bourgeoisie answered them - absolutely all points of view are correct: it will be treason, and you will be treated like traitors. It’s true, it’s true that fraternization there is treason in the trenches. Those who write against “treason”, like Bukvoed, against “collapse of Russia,” like Semkovsky, stand on the bourgeois and not on the proletarian point of view. The proletarian can neither deliver a class blow to his government nor extend it (in fact) the hand of his brother, the proletarian of a “foreign” country, who is at war with “us”, without committing “high treason”, not contributing to defeat, not helping the collapse of “his” imperialist “great” power. "
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 11 October 2017 18: 10 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Ryazanets87
                        And yet, guess at once whose quotes:

                        So what?
                        You already decide on whom you are suffering, either by the mediocre Nikolai 2, who dragged the country into the war, or by those who threw him off in February.
                        Second, since you are so directly preoccupied with the continuation of the war, then answer your own question, why didn’t the societies of that time want to lead it? Are the insidious Bolsheviks numbering 10 thousand directly to all of Russia, have they propagandized everyone? Or can you calm down and think about the fact that Russia didn’t accept, neither the Februaryists, nor any Black Hundreds, nor the Socialist-Revolutionaries in the end, but it took the Reds, and this is the genius of Lenin whom you are trying to disavow, along with a bunch of bouncing impatiently pour another bucket of dirt into their ancestors. Recalling Igor Chubais flirting like that ..
                    2. verner1967
                      verner1967 12 October 2017 07: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: badens1111
                      to rely on the historical rubbish of beaten Februaryists and other Bely, having before their eyes the facts of their cooperation with Hitler is not just meanness

                      And like, and most importantly, why, did they collaborate with a wounded corporal of the Kaiser army? what
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 12 October 2017 09: 41 New
                        +1
                        Quote: verner1967
                        And like, and most importantly, why, did they collaborate with a wounded corporal of the Kaiser army?

                        Your white flaws? Really, why?
                        Likely to get it again by impudent physics and end life in a loop, as Krasnov did.
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 11 October 2017 10: 41 New
                +4
                Quote: Ryazanets87
                "Order number 1, whose?"

                belay Mr. Ryazanets - this is pure Fake !!! Am I saying comrade badens1111 correctly?
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 11 October 2017 10: 49 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Am I saying comrade badens1111 correctly?

                  Sometimes yes. Well, like a radish, red on top, white inside, go figure it out ... what is your orientation.
                  July 16, 1917 General A.I. Denikin said in the presence of Kerensky:
                  “When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks served as the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. Others ruined the army ... The military legislation of recent months has ruined the army. ”
                  This is directly related to the lamentation of the Bolsheviks.
                  Any questions?
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 11 October 2017 11: 54 New
                    +4
                    Quote: badens1111
                    what correct orientation you have.

                    What correctness suits you? wink What a rascal you are !!! repeat
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Any questions?

                    Of course have!
                    Question ... and so where am I talking about the Bolsheviks that you suffered like a new gate ???? what
                    1. Okolotochny
                      Okolotochny 11 October 2017 21: 29 New
                      +6
                      Sergei hi Hello to you! For the radish, remember the immortal "Gentlemen of Fortune"? I advise Kamrad Baden, before sticking the stamps, to look at the comments of opponents, including how to argue with the fleet in the articles for the fleet.
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 11 October 2017 21: 35 New
                        0
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        and the fleet to argue with the fleet.

                        For the Fleet, I have not said anything.
                        But for the rest, in particular the Fleet, which relates slightly sideways, is it said that the sailor Dybenko is said to be able to lie to some, but to lie to what in an article devoted to a completely different issue?
                        You better give out a claim Serg65, unknowingly .. info in the natural sense from the trash for something valuable gives out .. contrary.
                      2. Serg65
                        Serg65 12 October 2017 06: 59 New
                        +5
                        smile Hello Alexey hi
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        I advise Kamrad Badenso

                        laughing Come on, the boy is having fun! what That's just the question ... for money or pure enthusiasm?
                        But in general it’s fun to talk with him, something like the witnesses of Yogov, there is no knowledge but aplomb above the roof bully .
                      3. badens1111
                        badens1111 12 October 2017 09: 44 New
                        0
                        Okolotochny
                        [quote = Serg65 C'mon, boy have fun! That's just the question ... for money or pure enthusiasm? [/ Quote]
                        Your boy is rude ... Syarozha, very rude, but yes God be with him, such behavior is a sign of a near mind.
          2. Serg65
            Serg65 11 October 2017 10: 21 New
            +4
            Quote: Rurikovich
            Failure of Pripyat to lay mines, refusal of destroyers to continue the battle after the flooding of Glory. Little, or what?

            Andrey began with the Kronstadt and Helsingfors pogroms!
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 11 October 2017 10: 33 New
              0
              Quote: Serg65
              Andrey began with the Kronstadt and Helsingfors pogroms!

              I do not argue yes Just considered exclusively Moonsund fights soldier
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 11 October 2017 10: 44 New
                +4
                Quote: Rurikovich
                Just considered exclusively Moonsund fights

                recourse So the Moonsund battles and became possible only after the defeat of the "Gyrfalcon"!
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 11 October 2017 16: 19 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Serg65
                  So the Moonsund battles and became possible only after the defeat of the "Gyrfalcon"!

                  Oh come on. There, in 1915 the vertical of power and subordination were - and the German still passed to the Gulf of Riga.
                  There is little hope for the 43rd battery - it was made in a hurry according to a temporary scheme. Ammunition cellars with wooden doors for BP carts are not treated with any discipline.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 12 October 2017 08: 39 New
                    +5
                    hi Welcome Alex!
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    in 1915, the vertical of power and subordination were - and the German still passed to the Gulf of Riga.

                    what Passed, but why did you come in? Ensure the flank of the 10 Army? Amuse the bored from idleness after the fight at Dogger banks? For me, this breakthrough is honestly incomprehensible. Lose 2 destroyer, 3 minesweeper and have damaged 1 battlecruiser, 2 light cruisers, 2 destroyer, destroyer and minesweeper for what?
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Ammunition cellars with wooden doors for BP carts are not treated with any discipline.

                    Yes, of course, you’re right, Alexey, but in the 16 year, the Russian army and navy were able to fight, but in the 17 year no longer! It was the decomposition of the army and navy that made it quite easy for the Germans to capture the archipelago.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 12 October 2017 10: 18 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Passed, but why did you come in? Secure the flank of the 10th Army? Amuse the bored from idleness after the fight at Dogger banks? For me, this breakthrough is honestly incomprehensible.

                      The only option is to clear the Gulf of Riga from the Russian ships that plagued the army. But to bring such an armada for this, and then interrupt the operation without achieving results, this is beyond my understanding. what
                      1. Serg65
                        Serg65 12 October 2017 11: 06 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        But to bring such an armada for this, and then interrupt the operation without achieving results, this is beyond my understanding

                        Here I am about the same bully
                        No, well, some market historians have a legend about the English E-1, which put a terrible fear on the Germans, but somehow it’s not a very legend wassat
          3. Andy
            Andy 11 October 2017 14: 20 New
            0
            not so, Rurikovich, not at all. And where is the February revolution, or was there more batteries on the coast and mine fields before it? the Germans opened the defense system (or rather unsystematic) and went around everything (!) from the flank. easy and simple. about the refusal of the destroyer crews - before that they had not fought in cashiers? you will believe in betrayal when the battleships didn’t even move. The will to win was broken at headquarters
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 11 October 2017 18: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: Andy
              the Germans opened the defense system (or rather unsystematic) and went around everything (!) from the flank. easy and simple.

              And who argues. That's why they bypassed that 20000 (!) Soldiers refused to resist normally and were captured. There was enough troops to stand in order to resist the landing, only the question is why these troops did not render it? so simple or influenced by decaying disciplines ?? wink
              Quote: Andy
              about the refusal of the crew of the destroyers, before that they did not fight in cashiers?

              The Kassar reach, in view of its depth, was accessible to ships no more than a destroyer, and therefore fought knowing their minefields and having opponents weaker than themselves (the weapons of the German destroyers were mainly in 88-mm guns). with 130 mm cannons) and cruisers. But when, upon their departure to Moonsund, they were ordered to again cover the ships from the appeared German destroyers, the teams of the 5th and 6th divisions refused to carry out the order request
              Quote: Andy
              you will believe in betrayal when the battleships did not even move.

              And who will defend TsMAP winked That’s why the Sevastopol’s and the newest brothers-emperors from the Gulf of Finland didn’t climb out “Sevastopol” and the “Glory” with “Tsarevich” hi
              Quote: Andy
              the will to win was broken at headquarters

              Yeah, especially after the unbelted sailors swing the rights wink
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 12 October 2017 11: 05 New
              0
              Quote: Andy
              the Germans opened the defense system (or rather unsystematic) and went around everything (!) from the flank.

              Simply and easily it was in the realities of 1917.
              After a break and checking the instruments, the shooting did not improve. Two guns soon failed and completely stopped shooting. I switched to volleys by 4. Volleys were extremely delayed. The nature of the falls is the same. However, despite the impossibility of any kind of fire control in such conditions, I continued shooting until the end. From the central post they told me that the team was running from the guns, which was also visible from the lighthouse. First, the cellar and serving staff hid behind the cellar and scattered into the dugouts of the diesel engine and the Central Post and further into the forest; then the lower servant, i.e. feed has finally stopped. First they fled from the 2nd, then from the 1st and 3rd, and finally, part of the servants from the 4th, but however, the 4th gun fired to the end.
              Such a large and erratic scattering that was discovered during the shooting, which made it completely impossible to control the fire, occurred, as it turned out later, because the gunners inattentively combined the arrows of the Central Navodka instrument, being frightened by enemy fire. Correction for the separation of guns, apparently not introduced.
              At the beginning of enemy fire from the 2nd gun, a lot of people crowded and the Central Post, which made negotiations with him very difficult. In minutes 7-10 after the opening of fire, I could not get an answer from the Central post in any way. Since the enemy was shooting from the rear of the battery, the supply and cellar servants hid behind the cellar, and when the falls approached, scattered into the dugout and further into the forest. With some kind of jamming, the lower servant also ran up.
              First they fled from the 2nd gun. Due to the badly corrected circular rail feed, after several shots, the trolley stopped approaching the charger.
              Apparently, Warrant Officer Rodionov did not set a proper example for the team and fled to the central post himself. Then at the 1st gun (after a close fall), because due to the departure of the feed and the lower servants, the feed stopped completely. Michman Polikarpov let go of the commandants and the upper servant and made the last shot himself. At the 3rd gun, the team ran and returned. When the charger did not reach the place, the team fled completely. At the 4th gun, only a part of the supply servant ran and the gun fired before the shot signal. The rifle was fired at from the 3rd gun and from machine guns on the 2nd diesel engine. The role of the officers is unclear; apparently, they were at a loss.
              Accompanied by Savkin, I went to the battery. On the way, I met several drunk with 44 baht. Who, during the battle, when their other team was 44 baht., Got drunk on denatured alcohol. Then the sailor of 44 baht., Kulay, brought to me several fugitives from 43 baht., Whom he caught at the cordon, behind a wire fence.
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 11 October 2017 10: 15 New
          +3
          Quote: badens1111
          Loud, but not at all smart.

          laughing Well, tell me not loudly and smartly in your own words what I'm wrong about!
          I look forward to wink
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 11 October 2017 10: 43 New
            0
            Quote: Serg65
            I look forward to

            http://maxpark.com/community/14/content/5880145
            Learn, you are our impatient. tongue
            At the same time, read your colleague Vadichka Ivanov, a Jew from Israel, he wrote a lot of "truth" to you there.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 11 October 2017 10: 47 New
              +4
              Quote: badens1111
              Learn, you are our impatient

              what But I, a lover of discounts, asked you in my own words to tell a few pages on 50. So to say for educational work among the lost sons of the Fatherland!
              In your own words, please?
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 11 October 2017 10: 55 New
                +1
                Quote: Serg65
                So to speak for educational work among the lost sons of the Fatherland!
                In your own words, please?

                What's the difference? Have you forgotten how to read? Why would such a cloudiness come to you?
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 11 October 2017 11: 59 New
                  +4
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Who cares?

                  The difference, my dear communist comrade, is in understanding the current political moment! If you want to ignite the masses with the great and bright fire of Freedom and Justice, then please be kind enough to push an incendiary, heartbreaking speech, and not send it to porn sites in the form of freedom radio hi
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 11 October 2017 16: 34 New
                    0
                    Quote: Serg65
                    The difference, my dear communist comrade, is in understanding the current political moment!

                    For moments you dress in red, but the inside is sharply white.
                    You are taught to lie, you are not able to answer for lies. It is checked, a slander and a ban, your weapon.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 12 October 2017 10: 10 New
                      +3
                      Quote: badens1111
                      swag and ban, your weapon.

                      Where and when?
                      Quote: badens1111
                      For moments you dress in red, but the inside is sharply white.

                      laughing No, from the outside I am white and the inside is purely physiologically red!
  4. Barcid
    Barcid 11 October 2017 09: 14 New
    +6
    Interesting and informative. Thank.
  5. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 11 October 2017 10: 04 New
    +5
    The author, it would be necessary to list the sunken ships at least by class, so that readers do not have questions and false ideas about losses. yes The Germans lost 4 destroyers, 4 patrol ships and 1 (one) minesweeper. Russians: EDB Glory and destroyer Thunder.
    Given that the battlefield remained on the Germans, their victims were not in vain and, I believe, small.
    Conclusion. With proper planning, it would not be difficult to hypothetically break into the Gulf of Finland hi
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 October 2017 16: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Conclusion. With proper planning, it would not be difficult to hypothetically break into the Gulf of Finland

      It depends on the conditions. If at the end of 1917 - then the main problem of the Germans will be mines and only mines. You should not take our coastal defense and fleet into account: the maximum possible for them is a departure to Kronstadt.
      But at the end of 1916 the Germans would have to sweat: by this time the armored turret batteries had finally been completed at the TsMAP + for their defense 100% would be withdrawn. Yes, and l / s is still held within the discipline.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 11 October 2017 16: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        If at the end of 1917 - then the main problem of the Germans will be mines and only mines. You should not take our coastal defense and fleet into account: the maximum possible for them is a departure to Kronstadt.

        So this is what is meant hi
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 October 2017 19: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: Rurikovich
          So this is what is meant

          Well then, the TsMAP Germans will pass. But the Gulf of Finland may already have problems. For 6 forts (SL, KG, Ino, Totleben, Obruchev, Reef) and 2-3 LCs near the capital, the Bolsheviks will find reliable garrisons - "'revolution is in danger, comrade!"In the end, VIL was notable for a fair amount of political flexibility - so in such a situation he could just do the same thing as during the Polish invasion, with emphasis on"Russia is in danger"and switched over from the class struggle to the national struggle.
          And to break through the shallow water with several fairways under fire from the shore and with mines below is an activity for a big lover. As well as storming the defense from land under the fire of coastal calibers.
    2. Grafova Irina
      Grafova Irina 13 October 2017 03: 30 New
      +3
      At that moment, with due diligence, they could have broken through. But why - there is a great mystery
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 13 October 2017 08: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Grafova Irina
        At that moment, with due diligence, they could have broken through.

        Dear Irene, this was also discussed - whether the defensive orders of the Russian Ali are passable or not. Time in the 15th and 17th years showed that passable. Therefore, either the concept is erroneous, or the concept is correct and its implementation is not important. And for what - this is another song. The fact is that, as the CMAP experience shows, is passable with proper preparation and a burning desire hi
        1. Grafova Irina
          Grafova Irina 13 October 2017 10: 32 New
          +3
          In principle, everything is passable and overcome. With proper concentration of forces and means. Therefore, the question nevertheless comes to the forefront - WHY ?. Or - for what. For what "Chairs break something." That is - battleships and battleships of the High Sea Fleet. What the Germans shone in the Gulf of Finland, provided that the southern coast was occupied by their own (or allied) troops. And forts - let them be until they are "hungry"
  6. Monarchist
    Monarchist 11 October 2017 10: 37 New
    +3
    Quote: parusnik
    As the saying goes .. the last chord ... and the string burst ..

    But you must admit that the “Glory” acted quite actively and even fettered the actions of the Germans with its death.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 11 October 2017 11: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: Monarchist
      But you must admit that the “Glory” acted quite actively and even fettered the actions of the Germans with its death.

      It is so reliable that in 1941 the channel of Glory, in which the battleship was flooded, and the ships had to be deepened and expanded in order to carry out the Kirov cruiser. Chernov. "War extinguished the lighthouses" on the defense of Moonsund, but already in 1941.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 11 October 2017 12: 02 New
        +4
        Quote: Amurets
        It is so reliable that in the 1941 year the channel of Glory, in which the battleship was flooded, and the ships had to be deepened and expanded

        hi Greetings buddy! I’m disappointing a little, the Latvians dismantled Glory to the keel by the 31 year, and the two-headed eagle from the stem is still stored in the Tallinn Maritime Museum.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 11 October 2017 12: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Serg65
          I’m disappointing a little, the Latvians by the 31st year dismantled Glory to the very keel,

          Yes, I made a mistake. Chernov writes about the transport "General Zimmerman," loaded with cement.
          "During the First World War, a canal was dug on Moonsund so that warships could pass through it. In the fall of 1917, when the Russian garrison left the archipelago, several old steamers were flooded on the canal. They blocked the way to the Moonsund to the German fleet.
          Measurement and inspection by divers showed that the General Zimmermann transport with a load of cement still blocked the passage.
          It was decided to bypass the "Zimmerman" dig a new knee of the canal. "This is when in the summer of 1941 there was a need to transfer ships from Riga to Tallinn.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 11 October 2017 11: 39 New
      +7
      Quote: Monarchist
      But you must admit that the "Glory" acted quite actively.

      "Glory" was a moth in the dark night! But her death was in vain.
      But this is not interesting! In October of the 16, “Glory” was put up for repairs in Kronstadt. after the repair went to Helsingfors. The March events of 17 on the battleship passed can be said calmly, limited to the arrest of officers, but the brothers from the "Andrew the First-Called" and "Paul" demanded the execution of the officers, to which the sailors of the "Glory" sent them to a well-known address. The revolutionary sailors were offended and directed auxiliary 8 guns on the Moonsund heroes and sent troops to the “rebel” battleship, the address above was also indicated. As a result, not a single officer of Glory was injured!
      Quote: Monarchist
      even with her death fettered the actions of the Germans.

      Here are the words of Vice Admiral Bahirev (they do not correspond to the official version)
      "The sailors rushed in disarray at the destroyers. The commander tried to detain at least the engine crew to put the ship exactly in the canal, but everyone except the officers left their posts, the committee could not or did not try to collect the engine drivers. Therefore, the battleship ran aground earlier than entered the canal. ”After that, the shell cellar of the aft tower was blown up. They finished off the battleship with a torpedo salvo from the destroyers. In order to prevent the German fleet from breaking into the Gulf of Finland, four vehicles had to be flooded to secure on the fairway."
      The last to leave the battleship was the commander of the capereng Antonov (died in Brussels 1954 year) and the head of the commander Haller (died in Kazan psychiatric hospital 1950 year).
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 11 October 2017 16: 49 New
        +3
        Greetings! hi
        Quote: Serg65
        The March events of the 17th on the battleship could be said calmly, limited to the arrest of officers, but the brothers from the "Andrew the First-Called" and "Paul" demanded the execution of the officers, to which the sailors of the "Glory" sent them to a well-known address. The revolutionary sailors were offended and directed auxiliary 8 "guns on the Moonsund heroes and sent troops to the" rebel "battleship, the above address was also indicated. As a result, not a single officer of Glory was injured!

        Heh heh heh ... so the teams of the really fighting ships continued to bend the same line: if they didn’t send agitators to a known address, they met them very severely. The notorious Raskolnikov complained that in the summer of 1917 he was joyfully met everywhere in the BF ... except for the ships of the detachment of the Gulf of Riga (and wherever they were - even in Helsingfors).
        In “Glory” he — horrified — was forced to go to the commander to coordinate the meeting.
        The next step on our journey was the battleship “Glory”. He has just returned from a position on the island of Ezel. Without missing a moment, we boarded a steam boat and after a few minutes we moored at the armored side. According to the established general order, they first of all went to the ship committee, wishing to inform him of the convening of the general meeting. But this ship had its own, according to the then views, some strange orders. We were asked for permission from the rally to contact the ship's commander, Antonov. These delicate diplomatic functions were entrusted to me by the Kronstadt comrades.
        When I entered the commander’s cabin, I was faced by a captain of the 1st rank, of medium height, with gray hair and Vladimir of the 4th degree on the left side of the tunic.
        - What do you want? - Antonov turned to me suspiciously.
        “We want to have a meeting,” I replied.
        “What will you talk about there?” The commander muttered displeasedly, all somehow guarded.
        Such a question was already too indecent. Nevertheless, I answered him:
        - We want to talk with the sailors of the ship about what is entrusted to us by our Kronstadt comrades, whom we represent here.
        Then I briefly enumerated our main political points, and Antonov lost in thought, as if hesitating: to allow or deny the meeting. In the end, he obviously realized that, regardless of his permission, we would somehow convene the general meeting and report there everything that was entrusted to us. Reluctantly, gritted his teeth:
        - You can arrange a meeting. Just keep in mind that the Bolsheviks cannot be successful with our team ...

        And in Reval on the Bayan he was generally met with threats:
        The next day, the whole company we went to the cruiser "Bayan". Here I met with my midshipman graduate Midshipman Nellis. He invited me to his cabin and warned that the sailors of the ship were extremely hostile to the Bolsheviks and even conspired to throw us overboard. The meeting took place on the upper deck. They took us with an icy chill. There really was a huge difference compared to the mood of Helsingfors. The relationship between the speakers and the audience was strained all the time, and when one of us spoke sharply about the Provisional Government and simultaneously spoke out against the war, threatening exclamations and hostile cries began to be heard.
  7. Monarchist
    Monarchist 11 October 2017 10: 45 New
    +3
    Quote: Rurikovich
    Quote: badens1111
    Loud, but not at all smart.

    And what is wrong? After the February Revolution, the combat effectiveness of the fleet began to roll down. The crews no longer want to obey orders - "they shoot there, we won’t go," the officers, fearing to be taken with bayonets, already actually give power to ships to the revolutionary committees request This is a statement of fact. And all this was already openly revealed in the battles for Moonzund. Failure of Pripyat to lay mines, refusal of destroyers to continue the battle after the flooding of Glory. Little, or what? After all, the Fleet did not make February, He is only a victim of circumstances yes

    I agree with you: a similar situation is not conceivable until February 23, 1917
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 11 October 2017 10: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Monarchist
      I agree with the

      Quotes of others, for my nickname, should not be inserted.
      July 16, 1917 General A.I. Denikin said in the presence of Kerensky:
      “When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks served as the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. Others ruined the army ... The military legislation of recent months has ruined the army. ”
      This is directly related to the lamentation of the Bolsheviks.
      Any questions?
      So those who muddied FEBRUARY are to blame for the collapse of the Army, the mess in the Navy, and the fact that due to the complete professional unsuitability of the Februaryists, October eventually happened as a reaction to the collapse of the country, due to the incapacity of the talkers, is another matter entirely.
      So, the analogy is, of course, a stretch, but -1993 is an analogue of February, and Putin’s rise to power, not October, of course, but the reaction of healthier forces, even inside those who were sharply enriched, to the fact of the defeat of the country and their possible loss in general.
  8. BAI
    BAI 11 October 2017 10: 47 New
    +3
    The last battle of Glory, when the ship took on board additional water ballast, to create an artificial roll on board and increase the elevation angle of the guns to increase the firing range (the main caliber did not reach the Germans), is well described in the old Soviet book “Heroes” . I reread it several times at one time. In general, the ship is handsome.
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 11 October 2017 12: 11 New
      +3
      Ballast "Glory" took, EMNIP, in the 15th year wink But certainly not in the last battle. In the 17th, she took the ballast in a voluntary-forced manner with the help of "Koenig" and "Crown Prince" hi
    2. Grafova Irina
      Grafova Irina 13 October 2017 03: 35 New
      +2
      No doubt - handsome. At the time of creation. Design, that is ... All "capital spikes" are beautiful ...
  9. Monarchist
    Monarchist 11 October 2017 11: 11 New
    +5
    The Moodzun operation is a clear indication of the lack of discipline. On a rabbi with individual manifestations of heroism: “only one Russian field battery tried to stop the landing” we see cowardice verging on treason: “the crews of two destroyer divisions“ refused to obey the order ”, and this is tantamount to treason.
    I agree with comrade Rurikovich that the Germans could hypothetically break into the Gulf of Finland, and there it would be close at hand.
    ARMIES WITHOUT DISCIPLINE NO
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 11 October 2017 12: 19 New
      +1
      Hypothetically, she would have done that if the army had reached the Revel (Talinn), and covering the coastal flank is necessary. That’s why neither the mine-artillery position, which is the central one, nor the Sevastopol brigade with practically ineffective crews (at that time) would be in the way because of sitting at the base. The Germans would have suffered losses, of course, but they would have completed the task. It is, hypothetically hi
      Quote: Monarchist
      what the lack of discipline leads to.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 11 October 2017 12: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: Monarchist
      I agree with comrade Rurikovich that the Germans could hypothetically break into the Gulf of Finland

      laughing As proved by Dybenko’s paint in his march from Narva to Gatchina on 23 on February 1918 of the year!
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 11 October 2017 16: 01 New
        0
        Quote: Serg65
        February 23

        I suppose that on February 23 you should not appear in a decent military society.
        And to accept congratulations from the ladies is completely shameful.
        You should celebrate another holiday, the choice of June 22, as the Day of the invasion of your allies by your words and actions here, and June 12, the Yeltsin celebration of a comprehensive madness of renouncing oneself.
        And the reality is far from your relishing the Dybenko drape.
        Let’s find out better what happened near Pskov and Narva on February 23, 1918? To do this, you do not need to be too conscientious historian or a very meticulous lover - sources at hand. So were there fights?

        Yes they were. On February 18, the Germans, moving in trains and cars, rushed forward in small advance detachments on the Northern Front, almost without resistance from the remnants of the demoralized old army. But already on February 23, at 15 miles from Pskov, the advance detachment of the Germans met the first rebuff of the Bolsheviks and even moved back under fire. The city was defended hastily by the assembled troops under the command of the former colonel of the General Staff G. Peklivanov - the 2nd Red Army regiment of Cherepanov, formed from soldiers of the Northern Front, detachments of Latvian riflemen, Pskov Red Guards, St. Petersburg workers and soldiers, as well as the remnants of the units of the 70th infantry who retreated here , 15th cavalry divisions, two shock battalions of the old army. The participation of officers of the 15th Ukrainian Hussar, 15th Tatar Uhlan, Koporsky Infantry Regiments, some other people, and the Soviet government, of course, did not sympathize, but fought for the honor of Russia, was noted in the battles near Pskov and Narva. In those days, many generals, officers and soldiers of the old army entered the Red Army in order to resist the German invasion. Staff captain Alexander Brzhezitsky distinguished himself with his battery — the prototype of Myshlaevsky in Bulgakov’s “White Guard” - his fate eventually led to the ranks of the Red Army.

        In the course of heavy stubborn fighting on February 24, the Germans, pulling up their rear, artillery and reserves, creating superiority in forces, broke through to the outskirts of Pskov, on the night of the 25th they went to the center, on the 28th they captured the whole city, which changed hands three times hands. The Germans were stopped at the Toroshino station with the help of the 1st Corps battalion, the Tukums Latvian Regiment, the 2nd reserve machine gun regiment of the regular Red Army, and the Red Guards of the Petrograd factories who had arrived from St. Petersburg.
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 12 October 2017 10: 57 New
          +3
          Quote: badens1111
          I suppose that on February 23 you should not appear in a decent military society.

          belay Why? And who do you think is a decent military community?
          Quote: badens1111
          You should celebrate another holiday - the choice of 22 June

          Well, what I should not decide for you, especially to such a hireling like you!
          Quote: badens1111
          Let’s find out better what happened near Pskov and Narva on 23 on February 1918 of the year?

          My dear visionary, I wrote somewhere that the battles of the Red Guard on February 23 is a fiction? You are either a Troll or a mentally ill! I do not beg the heroism of the 2 Red Regiment of Regiment, as well as the Pelda detachment, Pickman detachment, and many others!
          The conversation was about the great commander Pavel Dybenko, and not about 23 on February !!! Do you have anything to say about Dybenko?
    3. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 11 October 2017 14: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Monarchist
      The Moodzun operation is a clear indication of the lack of discipline. On a rabbi with individual manifestations of heroism: “only one Russian field battery tried to stop the landing” we see cowardice verging on treason: “the crews of two destroyer divisions“ refused to obey the order ”, and this is tantamount to treason.


      And not only that - the defense was poorly organized, the batteries did not have protection against landing, the sectors of shelling of batteries, they were not allowed to conduct circular shelling, the batteries were not protected from flanking fire. Insufficient mining, etc.
      There are a number of miscalculations in the organization of defense.
  10. Gopnik
    Gopnik 11 October 2017 13: 08 New
    +1
    A good example of the subversive activities of the Bolsheviks. It is no coincidence that these Russophobia traitors won the election on the Northern Front and the Baltic Fleet, gaining 60% of the vote. The most decomposed parts of the army voted for the Bolsheviks.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 11 October 2017 15: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: Gopnik
      A good example of the subversive activities of the Bolsheviks. It is no coincidence that these Russophobia traitors won the election on the Northern Front and the Baltic Fleet, gaining 60% of the vote. The most decomposed parts of the army voted for the Bolsheviks.

      Again a set of black myths.
      Denikin is a Bolshevik?
      Exactly a Bolshevik?
      What did he say then?
      July 16, 1917 General A.I. Denikin said in the presence of Kerensky:
      “When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks served as the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. Others ruined the army ... The military legislation of recent months has ruined the army. ”
      Speaking at the officer’s congress in Mogilev, he said: “By virtue of the inevitable historical laws, autocracy has fallen, and the country has switched to democracy. We are on the verge of a new life ... for which we carried our heads to the block, languished in mines, many thousands of idealists languished in the tundra ”
      At least they read it ..
      http://iknigi.net/avtor-anton-denikin/27288-ocher
      ki-russkoy-smuty-krushenie-vlasti-i-armii-fevral-
      sentyabr-1917-g-anton-denikin / read / page-14.html
      1. Gopnik
        Gopnik 11 October 2017 16: 09 New
        +1
        But why didn’t you quote completely, missing the fragment in the middle of the phrase ??? "When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks served as the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. The others destroyed the army, and the Bolsheviks are just filthy worms that wound up in the abscesses of the army". Denikin is right, the army was destroyed by those who allowed the Bolsheviks to conduct their vile propaganda, but did not put them against the wall. And, as I wrote, the most Bolshevik units were the most unhealthy, which Moonsund showed. It was not for nothing that the Central Balt was controlled by the Bolsheviks and still in September refused to recognize the Provisional Government.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 11 October 2017 16: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: Gopnik
          Denikin is right, the army was destroyed by those who allowed the Bolsheviks to conduct their vile propaganda, and did not put them against the wall.

          So put your liberals-Februaryists
          .You just dumped the country in the 90s. Now who will you blame?
          You dear, would not be born if it were not for the very Bolsheviks and the country they had assembled in a new country.
          Quote: Gopnik
          And, as I wrote, the most Bolshevized units were the most unhealthy, which Monsund showed.

          And this is a complete lie.
          force to repeat.
          Let’s find out better what happened near Pskov and Narva on February 23, 1918? To do this, you do not need to be too conscientious historian or a very meticulous lover - sources at hand. So were there fights?

          Yes they were. On February 18, the Germans, moving in trains and cars, rushed forward in small advance detachments on the Northern Front, almost without resistance from the remnants of the demoralized old army. But already on February 23, at 15 miles from Pskov, the advance detachment of the Germans met the first rebuff of the Bolsheviks and even moved back under fire. The city was defended hastily by the assembled troops under the command of the former colonel of the General Staff G. Peklivanov - the 2nd Red Army regiment of Cherepanov, formed from soldiers of the Northern Front, detachments of Latvian riflemen, Pskov Red Guards, St. Petersburg workers and soldiers, as well as the remnants of the units of the 70th infantry who retreated here , 15th cavalry divisions, two shock battalions of the old army. The participation of officers of the 15th Ukrainian Hussar, 15th Tatar Uhlan, Koporsky Infantry Regiments, some other people, and the Soviet government, of course, did not sympathize, but fought for the honor of Russia, was noted in the battles near Pskov and Narva. In those days, many generals, officers and soldiers of the old army entered the Red Army in order to resist the German invasion. Staff captain Alexander Brzhezitsky distinguished himself with his battery — the prototype of Myshlaevsky in Bulgakov’s “White Guard” - his fate eventually led to the ranks of the Red Army.

          In the course of heavy stubborn fighting on February 24, the Germans, pulling up their rear, artillery and reserves, creating superiority in forces, broke through to the outskirts of Pskov, on the night of the 25th they went to the center, on the 28th they captured the whole city, which changed hands three times hands. The Germans were stopped at the station of Toroshino with the help of the 1st Corps battalion, the Tukums Latvian Regiment, the 2nd reserve machine gun regiment of the regular Red Army, the Red Guards of the Petrograd factories.http: //sovietia.narod.ru/articles/febr23.
          htm
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 11 October 2017 16: 27 New
            +1
            Quote: badens1111
            So put your liberals-Februaryists


            For your information, dear Twarisch, the Bolsheviks welcomed the February Revolution, and participated in it, although not in the first roles. And most importantly, after February, they launched their anti-Russian activities.

            Quote: badens1111
            Let’s find out better what happened near Pskov and Narva on 23 on February 1918 of the year?


            And why is it here ??? The drape from the Germans of the army of Soviet Russia only confirms the incapacity of the Bolshevik units.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 12 October 2017 00: 28 New
              +1
              Quote: Gopnik
              And most importantly, after February, they launched their anti-Russian activities.

              Yes? Well then, gopnik, in the future you don’t stutter about the 1945 Victory. Do you understand why? No? Tighten.
              Quote: Gopnik
              And why is it here ??? The drape from the Germans of the army of Soviet Russia only confirms the incapacity of the Bolshevik units.

              Cheap chatter.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 October 2017 17: 25 New
          +3
          Quote: Gopnik
          And, as I wrote, the most Bolshevized units were the most unhealthy, as Moonsund showed

          Are you sure that the units on the Moonsund were exactly Bolshevized? But not socialized or anarchized?
          And then, after all, the Bolshevik comrades in 1917 were only one of the forces of the anti-government coalition. This is only later, after the final victory, including over associates and fellow travelers, they began to rewrite history, attributing everything to themselves.
          By the way, the same chairman of the committee of the 43rd battery suggested shooting running from guns. And, it seems, the committee was not limited to words.
          At the beginning of enemy fire from the 2nd gun, a lot of people crowded and the Central Post, which made negotiations with him very difficult. In minutes 7-10 after the opening of fire, I could not get an answer from the Central post in any way. Since the enemy was shooting from the rear of the battery, the supply and cellar servants hid behind the cellar, and when the falls approached, scattered into the dugout and further into the forest. With some kind of jamming, the lower servant also ran up.
          First they fled from the 2nd gun. Due to the badly corrected circular rail feed, after several shots, the trolley stopped approaching the charger.
          Apparently, Warrant Officer Rodionov did not set a proper example for the team and fled to the central post himself. Then at the 1st gun (after a close fall), because due to the departure of the feed and the lower servants, the feed stopped completely. Michman Polikarpov let go of the commandants and the upper servant and made the last shot himself. At the 3rd gun, the team ran and returned. When the charger did not reach the place, the team fled completely. At the 4th gun, only a part of the supply servant ran and the gun fired before the shot signal. The rifle was fired at from the 3rd gun and from machine guns on the 2nd diesel engine. The role of the officers is unclear; apparently, they were at a loss.
          For me, the flight of the team was a surprise, because the enemy’s shooting was bad, our team was shot at by the previous frequent bombing. Chairman of the baht committee. 43 miner Savkin, who was a telephone operator at my lighthouse, was furious with the behavior of the team and demanded that all fugitives be shot, while the rest were suppressed and outraged by this.
          © Art. lt Bartenev - com. baht. Number 43
          1. Gopnik
            Gopnik 11 October 2017 17: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Are you sure that the units on the Moonsund were exactly Bolshevized?


            Yes, because a month later, on the Northern Front and the Baltic Fleet, it was the Bolsheviks who gained 60% in the elections. And the central bullet was in the hands of the Bolsheviks. In addition, both the Left Socialist Revolutionaries and Anarchists are allies of the Bolsheviks on the hype, supporting the seizure of power and participating in it.
  11. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 11 October 2017 14: 07 New
    +2
    The Kaiser severely damaged the Russian destroyer Thunder, which lost speed. This was used by German destroyers, who began to shell a motionless Russian ship. Gunboat "Brave" tried to fire a tow rope under enemy fire, but unsuccessfully.

    Not everything is so simple. ©
    Initially, the "Brave" KL successfully began towing the "Thunder". But the tow was disrupted by the actions of their own ships. More precisely, EM "Winner" under the command of Pilsudski:
    The same “Pobeditel” repeated this highly non-naval maneuver already in a combat situation, at Kassarsky Reach, when he walked at high speed past the gunboat “Brave”, which was sailing at a low speed with a knocked-out enemy shell “Thunder” moored to it. Mooring lines were torn off. And that was the reason for the death of "Thunder"
    © Bahirev
  12. Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 11 October 2017 15: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: Andy
    what is the use of two batteries of 305mm guns if they were bypassed from the flank

    The army did not want to fight. Therefore, they went around. Look, 20 thousand were surrendered, how much equipment they surrendered. The Bolsheviks completely laid out the army
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 11 October 2017 15: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: Pilat2009
      The army did not want to fight. Therefore, they went around. Look, 20 thousand were surrendered, how much equipment they surrendered. The Bolsheviks completely laid out the army

      Again, a finger to the sky .. are you at least something other than icteric sites and books, you read?
      July 16, 1917 General A.I. Denikin said in the presence of Kerensky:
      “When they repeat at every step that the Bolsheviks served as the cause of the collapse of the army, I protest. This is not true. Others ruined the army ... The military legislation of recent months has ruined the army. ”
      This is directly related to the lamentation of the Bolsheviks.
  13. Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 11 October 2017 23: 17 New
    +6
    badens1111,
    Vlad, Sergei wrote the commentary precisely on the Navy, for the state of the Russian fleet, its mistakes. You are trying to bring a political tint.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 12 October 2017 00: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: Okolotochny
      bring a political tint.

      He introduced a political background to his colleague, speaking dirtyly about the military holiday on February 23. I have never touched on the Navy as such.
      Here is his writings ..
      Serg65 Yesterday, 12:29 ↑
      Quote: Monarchist
      I agree with comrade Rurikovich that the Germans could hypothetically break into the Gulf of Finland
      laughing What Dybenko proved with his paint in his march from Narva to Gatchina on February 23, 1918!
      And then all sorts of gopniks suffered every indigestible brew of rumors, gossip and other things ..
  14. Serg65
    Serg65 12 October 2017 07: 15 New
    +3
    badens1111
    Quote: badens1111
    You better give out a claim Serg65

    Are you collecting adepts? what Wildly sorry, but your audience is much younger and there you will have more success! laughing
  15. Serg65
    Serg65 12 October 2017 11: 01 New
    +3
    badens1111,
    Quote: badens1111
    Syarozha, very rude, but yes God be with him, such behavior is a sign of a near mind.

    belay Hto? Am I rude? Well, I still need to learn rudeness from you, my dear! wink
  16. Grafova Irina
    Grafova Irina 13 October 2017 04: 25 New
    +5
    Many comments are read funny here. They didn’t see the woods behind the tree ... Evading the topic and going over to the person ... Why, dear comrades? Let's constructively ....
    My opinion (and only mine) is this. The vast majority of coastal fortresses (and batteries, especially with large-caliber guns) were taken from land. It is a fact. Yes, someone will remember “ships storming the bastions,” but this is a slightly different time and exceptions, as you know, confirm the rules. Remember the Dardanelles - in the sense that the overwhelming sea power, by and large, could not do anything with far from new fortifications and weapons (not all, were new, but not enough) on them (Agamemnon managed to “catch” as much as stone (!) shell). This I mean, that in ANY scenario, these islands were doomed. The absence of anti-airborne defense (and indeed it’s difficult to defend under the fire of 12 "and 15" guns - remember the Pacific Ocean a few decades later), a mess and collapse in parts intended for that, the absolute superiority of the enemy at sea and in the air (even for those at times an important factor). And yet, our coastal batteries were not completely crushed, but occupied by the enemy from land. Did old Buonaparte say that one gun on the shore costs ten on a ship? Even if not he - the meaning is clear. If only to take proportional moments. Kinburn is not an indicator; disproportionate quantities converged there.
    Yes, if there was a clear leadership, a general plan, strong-willed leaders who were happy about the defense of this “sector” and reliable and skillful performers, the Gulf of Riga would have been given to the Germans at a higher price. But, as I have already noted, what for did they really need him? Shellings, extremely irregular, of their coastal flank? It was easy to fend off the installation of several heavy batteries (heavy artillery among the Germans was always held in high esteem). As a rehearsal and preparation for a breakthrough, the CMAP is very unlikely. Again - why and for what? To withstand dueling with the forts of Kronstadt and Krasnaya Gorka with a dubious pleasure for watching the Winter Palace in the excellent range finders (Germans) for them - if you are lucky to deliver them whole.
    The Germans at sea at that time had more difficult tasks, in my opinion. And the fact that they used such forces for a generally not quite important operation (again, in my opinion) indicates that they simply “spat” in the direction of the Grand Fleet (and what will he do?) And decided to warm up. With a slight risk, of course, but it's a sport, after all. And they gathered such an armada - that would be quick and “fun” to finish everything, at the same time to practice combat firing at a real enemy. Which, with all its shortcomings at that time, turned out to be somewhat more dangerous than originally thought ...
    No wonder the Germans, already in the 2nd MV, considered the Gulf of Finland as a third-rate site. Including the same islands
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich 13 October 2017 08: 28 New
      +2
      Irina, a chic plus for the historian’s thoughts good hi
      1. Grafova Irina
        Grafova Irina 13 October 2017 11: 43 New
        +3
        wink I understand - Correhidor. There it was only from the sea and it was possible ... But a dense blockade and it was finished. And here ... also a question. Engage strategic forces (at that time) to occupy several islands - this should be a very strong incentive. But what the incentive was - I just don’t know
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 13 October 2017 15: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: Grafova Irina
          But what the incentive was - I just don’t know

          Inaction during the war corrupts discipline yes Therefore, after Jutland, when the Hohseeflot long-distance trips were actually ordered, the Germans knead the crews in the "back" yard ... Therefore, unlike the "manual" battleships of Nicholas II, they received practice and formally actually fought smile And among the Russian military commanders, the apache of the February Revolution, from idleness blew the roof request The maximum that was achieved was the rare snooping between Helsinki and Kronstadt repeat A stimulus to the Germans was in the official support of the army. So the Moonsund Islands fell quickly and confidently before the main forces of the Second Reich, whose hands itched their hands to fight smile
          1. Grafova Irina
            Grafova Irina 14 October 2017 15: 31 New
            +4
            It is truth too. The rank and file should be in the "case", otherwise from idleness begins to "decompose." It is enough to compare the Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet.
            And the Germans ... Yes, since nothing shone from the meeting with the Grand Fleet, they started to correct other TVDs ...
            Our “Sevastopol”, if we take it purely hypothetically, at real battle distances (at that time) could “break” both “Kaiser” and “Koenig” - if it hadn’t “broken” itself ...
            A lot depends on many unaccounted factors in naval battles. Which are called such (from their unaccounted lol ).
            But, when the need propped up, the same "Andrei ...." sniper shot at Krasnaya Gorka ...
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 14 October 2017 17: 12 New
              0
              Quote: Grafova Irina
              But, when the need propped up, the same "Andrei ...." sniper shot at Krasnaya Gorka ...

              Indeed, Red Hill did not maneuver ..... repeat
              1. Grafova Irina
                Grafova Irina 15 October 2017 11: 30 New
                +3
                Of course. But “she” shot Yes, and “Andrey ...” himself maneuvered, which creates certain difficulties in firing. I remembered the pre- and military skills when I “locked up”. If you believe Isakov (I don’t see any reason not to believe), then every volley after sighting - went inside the fort
  17. Serg65
    Serg65 13 October 2017 08: 14 New
    +4
    badens1111,
    Quote: badens1111
    read the new your nonsense.

    laughing Thank you Vlad, it was fun to talk with you good
    Well, now about the delirium wink
    Quote: Serg65
    Shameful page has begun 23 February 1917 year

    bully I hope you do not need to explain the difference between February 23 of 17 and February 23 of 18??
    Good luck Vlad! drinks