Military Review

"It was no longer the former Russian"

89
In the ugly situation of political instability in the Russian capital and on the outskirts, rallies at the very front, the Provisional Government’s distrust of the General Headquarters and the front staffs worked out plans for the summer offensive. True, the generals did not know whether it would be possible to withdraw the soldiers from the trenches, whether the troops, having tasted various “freedoms and rights”, would agree to go to their deaths.


The troops rallied, agreeing on the opinions of almost every speaker and immediately forgetting about it, listening to the next one who could say completely opposite things. In one and the same division, very often one regiment issued a decree to attack, while another agreed only on defense, in the third, they did not decide anything, they stuck bayonets into the ground and went home on their own, “where the Germans could not reach” participation in the redistribution of land. At the same time, mass desertion could have happened right there after the “unanimous and triumphal” resolution to fight to the bitter end. As a result, the whole army resembled a madhouse. And in these conditions, the Provisional Government, dependent on the West, and the Allies demanded that the Stavka advance.

The main work on the persuasion of troops fell on the committees, which were headed by the former terrorist Savinkov, on the "popular" generals and Kerensky. Kerensky visited the South-Western Front and traveled to the corps designed to attack. He these days received a half-joking, half-prohibitive nickname of the "supreme leader". Kerensky, in one fell swoop by the will of the Masonic "backstage" who took off to the very top of power, clearly admired himself, believed in his "magical influence" and "indescribable popularity" among the people and troops, in the "commander's gift."

The main idea of ​​the offensive, which was postponed from spring 1917 to summer, was adopted before the February Revolution under Alekseev. The main blow should have been delivered by the armies of the Southwestern Front, commanded by General A.Ye. Gutor, by the forces of the 11 and 7 armies in the direction of Lviv, and of the 8 army to Kalush. The rest of the Russian fronts — Northern, Western and Romanian — were to deliver auxiliary strikes in order to distract the enemy and support the armies of the Southwestern Front.

"It was no longer the former Russian"

Kerensky at the front

Offensive

16 (29) June 1917, the artillery of the Southwestern Front opened fire on the positions of the Austro-German troops. In fact, the Russian command was left with one strong argument - numerous artillery. 3 thousand guns destroyed enemy positions, unwittingly raising the morale of the Russian troops. To increase the spirit, General Gutor ordered the artillery preparation to be extended for another two days. On June 18 (July 1), the 11 and 7 armies launched an offensive that attacked Lviv: the first, bypassing from the north, to Zborov, Zlochev, and the second from the front, to Brzezany. 8-I army was to conduct in the valley of the Dniester auxiliary attack on Galich and follow the Carpathian direction.

The first two days brought some success to the advancing troops. Austro-German troops were shocked by the powerful artillery preparation. In addition, the enemy did not expect that the Russians were still capable of organizing such a serious offensive operation. In some areas, 2-3 lines of enemy trenches were captured. The 9 th Austro-Hungarian corps of Zborov, holding the defense of the troops of the 11 th army of General Erdelyi, was defeated and brought into reserve, it was replaced by the 51 th German corps. Particularly distinguished in the battle Zborovskoy Finnish arrows and Czechoslovak units. The Finnish riflemen seized the strongly fortified mountain Tomb, which was considered impregnable. And the blow of the Czechoslovakians shook the Austro-Hungarian troops, which in large part consisted of Czechs.



In the telegram of A. F. Kerensky to the Provisional Government 18 of June (1 July) 1917 of the city of Kerensky declared: "Today the great triumph of the revolution, the Russian revolutionary army with great enthusiasm went on the offensive." However, success was brief. The first successes had nothing to develop - there were no cavalry in the direction of the strikes, and the overwhelming part of the infantry decayed. The selected shock units, which began the offensive, were basically knocked out at this point. The Austro-German command quickly recovered and took steps to eliminate the breakthrough. Instead of supporting the bleeding parts, the reserves rallied and passed resolutions of "distrust" to the capitalist government and "a world without annexations and indemnities." The offensive of the 11 Army stopped, it continued only artillery fighting. On June 22 (July 5), the troops of the 11 army tried to attack again, but without noticeable success. The enemy has already taken measures to strengthen the defense.

A similar situation was on the line of General Belkovich's 7 Army. The shock group of the army (four corps) moved with a big impulse and occupied 2-3 fortified enemy lines. The center of the South German army of Botmer was pressed in the Battle of Březani. However, on the night of 19 and on the day of 19 (July 2), the furious counterattacks of the German-Turkish forces as a whole wiped out our success. The terrain conditions did not allow for full artillery support. And our infantry has already lost its former fighting qualities: the first impulse died away, the troops quickly died down, went over to the defense, but they did not show their former resilience. From the 20 Infantry Divisions of the 7 Army: 8 divisions attacked, 2 - held defense in a passive sector, and 10 - rallied in the rear. No wonder Ludendorff noted: "It was no longer the former Russian."

Commander-in-Chief, General Gutor still hoped to strengthen the army and resume the offensive. The 11 st army reinforced with two corps from Volhynia and the Romanian front, the 7 st army - guards. The auxiliary offensive of the 8 Army of Kornilov should facilitate the conduct of the main operation. The commanders of the armies and corps expressed fear: they saw that in the failed offensive, only those who still maintained their fighting spirit went to the offensive and the best of them died. That a huge exhausted army at any moment is ready to come out of obedience and no one can stop the soldiers' masses. But Kerensky did not see it. He believed that the army was close to a serious victory, which would strengthen the prestige of the Provisional Government in the country and abroad.

23 June (6 July) 1917, the army of Kornilov, attacked the 3 th Austro-Hungarian army of Terstiansky in the Bystritsa valley. In the first two days of the 16 offensive, the corps distracted the enemy’s attention to the south. June 25 (July 8) under the thunder of 300 guns went on the attack 12 corps of General Cheremisov. The front of the Austrian army was broken under Yamnitsa. The 26 th Austro-Hungarian corps was completely crushed (its remnants were disbanded and poured into the 40 th German Reserve Corps). During the day, the enemy lost only prisoners more than 7 thousand people and 48 guns. The whole valley of Bystrica was in our hands. 26 June (9 July), our troops reflected the enemy counterattacks. The German reinforcements and the 13 corps that had come up were discarded. The German Southern Army hastily bent its right flank, exposed after the destruction of the 26 corps. In these battles, the regiments of the 11 and 19 divisions and the new Kornilov shock regiment distinguished themselves.

27-28 June (10-11 July), our troops continued to rush forward. The effect was that the 8 Army inherited the Brusilov and Kaledin traditions. Kornilov continued them, and officers and soldiers loved him and respected him. The impact wedge of the 12 corps broke through to Lomnitsy; on the right flank of the army, Zaumurits took Galich with a quick blow. At the same time, parts of 1 and 4 of the Zaamur divisions took 2 thousand prisoners and 26 guns. 164-division was able to suddenly attack the Germans and took Kalush, the Germans fled. In this dashing attack on Kalush, our troops took 1 thousand prisoners and 13 guns. The commander of the 3 of the Austrian army, Terstiansky, was discharged, and Leopold of Bavaria, commander-in-chief of the Austro-German front, sent Litzmann, who had already saved the Austro-Hungarian troops a year ago, to Lomnitsa. The next two days, Kornilov equaled the front, pulling up the backward troops. The absence of large masses of cavalry in the right place, the constant problem of our army in this war did not allow us to develop a breakthrough. In addition, Lomnitsa strongly spread, hindering the advancement of troops, the enemy destroyed the crossing.

Commander Gutor planned to resume the June 30 offensive (July 13). 11-I army was supposed to attack on Zlochev, 7-I - to hold down enemy forces frontally, 8-I army - to attack Rohatyn and Zhydachyov. Two-sided coverage of the 11 and 8 armies was planned to be pinched by the South German army. In the coming days, at the direction of the Stavka, the Western, Northern, and Romanian fronts were to launch an offensive. However, the troops of the Western, Northern and Romanian fronts who were overjoyed by the “democracy” again took up the rally, voted, did not want to attack, and the operation was postponed for several days. On the South-Western Front, because of the mass rallies of the soldiers, the offensive was also postponed from day to day and waited until the enemy pulled up reserves and launched a counter-offensive.


Kornilov in front of the troops

German counteroffensive

The Austro-German command did not wait until the Russians had finished their rallies and prepared their counter-attack. In Berlin, they knew that the French army was not planning major operations on the Western Front. On the eve of the Russian offensive from France, the 7 of the selected divisions of the 3 Guard and the 10 Corps were sent to the Russian front. The offices of these corps remained in France, and the troops became part of the 23-th reserve, 51-th and Beskyd corps of the Zlochevsky detachment. These troops arrived in Galicia after the Russian offensive of the 11 and 7 armies choked. Two divisions were sent to rescue the 3 of the Austrian army on Lomnitsa, and the rest went under Zborov, forming the Zlochivsky detachment of General Winkler on the right flank of the 2 of the Austro-Hungarian army. The Austrians strengthened their troops with divisions from the Italian front. The commander-in-chief of the Eastern Front, Prince Leopold of Bavaria, ordered the Zlochevsky detachment to launch a counteroffensive in the general direction of Tarnopol in order to regain lost ground. To this end, the Zlochevsky detachment was brought to the 12 divisions (11 of them German) and aimed at the left flank of the Russian 11 th army.

The regrouping of our troops was not yet complete, as at dawn of 6 (19) in July, the Austro-German forces launched a swift counterattack prepared by the short but crushing blow of 600 guns and 180 mortars. The blow came at the Ashtrays on the 25 body, which did not show even the minimum resistance. Decomposed 6-I Grenadier Division raised a riot and the whole corps ran. From the Grenadier Division, which lost its title, it was possible to gather around 200 people. The corps left the enemy about 3 thousand people prisoners and 10 guns. The Germans were stunned by such success. They attacked the neighboring 5 of the Siberian Corps, but the attack was repelled by the 6 of the Siberian division. The Germans of the Siberians did not touch any more and suffered a blow to the south.

The flight of the 25 Army Corps led to a general collapse. His departure led to the retreat of the 17 corps. General Erdely tried to counterattack with the 49 corps, but he was thrown back and these troops were involved in the general whirlpool of retreat. Following them, the 1 Guards and the 5 Army Corps retreated. The 11 Army fell apart and spontaneously rolled back. The right flank of the 7 Army, exposed by the 11 Army, was under attack, and General Belkovich began to take him behind the Golden Lipa. Desertion has reached simply unimaginable size. Thus, one shock battalion, sent to the rear of the 11 Army as a detachment in the area of ​​the town of Volochisk, detained 12 thousand deserters overnight.

The commissioners of the 11 Army in their telegram to the command described the situation as follows: “In the mood of the units recently moved forward by the heroic efforts of the minority, a sharp and disastrous change was determined. Offensive breakthrough quickly exhausted. Most parts are in a state of ever increasing decomposition. There is no talk of power and obedience, persuasions and convictions have lost their strength - they are answered with threats, and sometimes with shooting ... Some parts voluntarily leave positions, without even waiting for the enemy to approach. For hundreds of miles to the rear stretches of fugitives with guns and without them - healthy, vigorous, feeling completely unpunished. Sometimes whole parts go like this ... ”.

8 (21) July, it was already a disaster of the entire South-Western Front. On the same day, General Gutor was removed from command. Brusilov appointed Kornilov as commander-in-chief of the front. “On the fields that can not be called battle fields, there is continuous horror, shame and shame, which the Russian army did not know from the very beginning of its existence,” - so Kornilov described the position of his front. He ordered the 11 th and 7 th army to withdraw for the Siret. At the same time, the 8 army had to be taken back, only the occupied Galich and Kalush were given without a fight.

Zlochevsky detachment of the enemy, moving, almost meeting no resistance, turned from the east direction almost at a right angle to the south. The rear of the 7 of the Russian army was hit. General Winkler, smashing the 11 army, attacked the 7 army in the flank and rear. Fortunately, the Germans did not have cavalry. The Bavarian cavalry division was previously sent under Galich, to restrain the 8 th army of Kornilov. Otherwise, the situation for the Russian rears would be just awful. The entire group of troops, Bohm-Yermoli (2-I of the Austro-Hungarian Army, South German Army and 3-I of the Austro-Hungarian Army) went over to the offensive. The South German army pushed 7 from the front of the Russian army. The 3 th Austro-Hungarian army carefully followed the 8 th army, not daring to attack it. The Austro-German command, not yet giving itself a report on the size of the catastrophe that befell the enemy, ordered the troops not to dig in further than Tarnopol and the Siret line.

9 (22) July The 11 and 7 armies reached Seret, but could not stay on this line. In the 11 Army, the 45 Corps, which had come to the aid of its left flank, began to rally and also ran. In the 7 Army, the 22 Corps voluntarily left the front. The right flank of the 8 Army, the 3 Caucasus Corps, was bare and began to withdraw. The new commander of the 8 Army, General Cheremisov, ordered the troops to retreat to Stanislav. Meanwhile, Kornilov tried to save the situation from complete collapse by tough and energetic measures. The "death battalions" from the collapsed front line, where they simply sank in the mass of alarmists, protesters and deserters, were taken to the rear, where they began to play the role of barrage units. The running units were detained, deserters were caught, the rebels were shot on the spot. The general and stampede of 10-11 (23-24) in July was transformed into a retreat, albeit hasty and erratic. From the northern front to Bukovina transferred the control of the 1-th army Vannovsky. The new 1 Army received the left-flank corps of the 8 Army. General Erdeli received the Special Army, and the former Commander of the Special Army, General Baluyev, led the 11 Army.

10 (23) July The 11 Army was on the Stryp. During the four days of the military catastrophe caused by the consequences of the “democratic” February Revolution, our troops gave away all that had been gained by immense valor and the blood of hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers during the four months of the brutal battles of Brusilov's breakthrough in 1916. A detachment of Winkler attacked Tarnopol, but was rejected by the Russian guard. The Russian Guard again defeated the Prussian. Against the background of the general collapse of the regiment 1-th and 2-th Guards Divisions fought valiantly. 11 (24) July were stubborn battles for Tarnopol. After knocking down the 7 Army, the South German Army entered the posts of the 8 Army, threatening it with encirclement. 8 th army had to leave Stanislav. 12 (25) in July, the Germans shot down the 5 th Army Corps, and the guard, which went to the flank, left Tarnopol. 7-I army passed Buchach and Monasterzhisku. The Strypa line was lost. On the same day, the 7 th Austro-Hungarian army launched an offensive, while the Russian 1 Army resisted slowly and began to withdraw due to the general retreat of the South-Western Front.

In the evening of July 12 (25), Kornilov signed an order for a general retreat to the state border. Chervonnaya Rus and Bukovyna yielded to the enemy. On July 13-14 (26-27), our troops finally left Galicia, our troops retreated to Zbruch on 15. As a result, Russian troops stopped at the line Brody - Zbarazh, p. Zbruch. With energetic and decisive measures, Kornilov restored relative order in the rear and made it possible for commanders to restore order in the troops.

Intoxicated with success, Earl Botmer decided to force Zbruch and invade Podolia. 16 (29) in July, the South German army attacked on all fronts, and unexpectedly the Germans and Austrians received a tough response. 17 (30) In July, the Austro-German troops again tried to attack, but met with resistance from the troops of the 7 and 8 armies. The next day, the Southern Army attacked all over the front again, but achieved only local successes. Austro-German and Turkish troops exhausted. Kornilov ordered a general counteroffensive. This was his last order as commander-in-chief of the front. On July 19, he was appointed Supreme Commander and surrendered the front to General Baluev. July 19 (August 1) Russian troops overturned the German Beskyd Corps and the 25 of the Austro-Hungarian. Gusyatin was beaten off, the enemy was rejected for Zbruch. The eight-day battle on Zbruch ended with the victory of the Russian weaponsbut it remained in the shadow of the general defeat and the collapse of the country and the army.



Results

"The offensive of Kerensky," caused by the pressure of the allies and the Provisional Government, who wanted to raise its prestige inside the country and among the Entente powers, failed completely. The warnings of the generals, who pointed out that decomposed troops, who did not want to fight anymore for “bourgeois and capitalists”, were at best able only to defend themselves, were not heard. In the early days, Russian troops, using the accumulated artillery arsenal, weakening the Austro-German troops on the Eastern Front, achieved some success, especially Kornilov's 8 Army. But soon the most combat-ready units, including the death battalions, were drained of blood, cavalry did not exist to develop a breakthrough, the infantry did not want to attack, the soldiers deserted en masse, rallied, left positions even without enemy pressure. As a result, when the enemy command transferred reserves and organized a counter strike, the front of the advancing armies simply collapsed. The Germans more often than not simply went forward without encountering resistance. Those parts that still fought back, just could not resist, as their neighbors fled. Thus, the front fell back to the state border, all the fruits of the heavy, bloody battles of the previous campaigns were lost. Kornilov, appointed commander, with great difficulty brought relative order, and stopped the enemy's counter-offensive.

The Western and Northern fronts, which were to deliver auxiliary blows, found themselves in a similar situation. The troops simply did not want to fight. The Northern Front was “advancing” on 8-10 (21-23) in July, but the attack failed. The front headquarters reported to GHQ: “Only two divisions out of six were capable of operation ... The 36 Division, which took two lines of enemy trenches and marched on the third, turned back under the influence of shouts from behind; The 182 Division was pushed onto the bridgeheads by force of arms; when the enemy opened artillery fire on the parts of the division, they opened indiscriminate fire on their own. From the 120 Division, only one battalion went on the attack. ” Only the Revel Shock Battalion of Death fought bravely. But the seamen were poorly trained and suffered terrible losses.

The offensive of the Western Front was carried out by the forces of the 10 Army. Front commander Denikin knew that the troops would not fight. He invented the only trick, allowed the newspaper to leak information about the attack, so that the enemy would not remove troops from his front to the direction of the main attack. For three days, an artillery preparation was carried out at the front, which in places completely destroyed the enemy's line of defense, in places completely demoralized him. However, from the 14 divisions intended for the offensive, only 7 went to the attack, of which 4 proved to be combat-ready. As a result, the Russian troops who did not want to fight by the end of the day returned to their positions. At a meeting at the 16 General Headquarters (29) in July, the commander-in-chief of the Western Front, General Denikin, reported: “The units went on the attack, marched two ceremonially, three lines of enemy trenches and ... returned to their trenches. The operation was foiled. I had a 19 battalion and 184 guns on the 900-site; the enemy had 17 battalions in the first line and 12 in reserve with 300 guns. 138 battalions against 17 and 900 guns against 300 were brought into battle. ” Thus, our troops had a huge numerical advantage, but could not use it, as they were completely decomposed.

The June offensive noticeably aggravated the situation among the revolutionary units of the Petrograd garrison, who did not want to go to the front. Anarchists and Bolsheviks were gaining popularity among them. July 3-5 (16-18), there were performances of soldiers of the 1 Machine Gun Regiment, workers of Petrograd factories, Kronstadt sailors under the slogans of the immediate resignation of the Provisional Government and the transfer of power to the Soviets. The unrest took place with the direct participation of the anarchists and part of the Bolsheviks. This led to a tightening of the policy of the Provisional Government. Kerensky replaced Lvov as head of government, retaining the portfolio of the military and maritime minister. Kornilov was appointed commander-in-chief. Petrograd and the Petrograd garrison were reassured by the 45-I infantry and 14-I cavalry divisions that had arrived from the front (this shows that Tsar Nicholas had chances for the military liquidation of the February-March coup). The Bolshevik Party was accused of espionage and sabotage in favor of Germany. Trotsky, Krylenko, and some other activists were arrested (albeit, quickly released). Lenin and Zinoviev fled Petrograd and went into hiding. True, convincing evidence of Lenin's espionage activity was never presented.


Rally of the troops of the Petrograd garrison
Author:
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Mosul operation. How the British, until recently, tried to use the Russian "cannon fodder"
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"War will end wars." USA in the First World War
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Tenth Battle of the Isonzo
The failure of the "offensive of Kerensky"
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    1. 210ox
      210ox 3 July 2017 06: 53 New
      +9
      I agree only partially. All were good. And Nikolai, who surrendered the country, and his entourage, and the Bolsheviks and other parties. It was necessary to hold the country in hard hands, and not to smear the snot. At the same time, the same Bolsheviks in the thirties industrialized, and after the war they restored the country. More precisely, the PEOPLE, under the leadership of the same Bolsheviks.
      1. Military Builder
        Military Builder 3 July 2017 07: 13 New
        16
        under the leadership of the same Bolsheviks

        Not those, far from those. Dreamers of the "pajar" of the world revolution, comrade Stalin IV at the expense of the Russian people removed from power, and those who remained already thought only of the USSR
      2. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 3 July 2017 11: 38 New
        +8
        Quote: 210ox
        It was necessary to hold the country in hard hands

        This is if you can keep it.
        For example, during the Great Patriotic War, the overwhelming majority of the country's population was for the existing system, supported the then power, and the measures that it took (including the coolest). This means that there were relatively few panicky capitulators, and there was someone to put on “holding in hard hands”.

        And during the WWII, everything was exactly the opposite - the vast majority of the population did not support the then authorities, which means that there would not be enough detachments to keep millions of armed and embittered men.
        1. Monarchist
          Monarchist 3 July 2017 18: 56 New
          +5
          Let me correct you: detachments as such were needed after February 1917, and before February the RIA completely dispensed with this and the heading itself says about it: “these were no longer the old Russians”
    2. venaya
      venaya 3 July 2017 09: 29 New
      12
      Quote: Olgovich
      The Bolshevik party was accused of espionage and sabotage in favor of Germany.

      Absolute truth ..

      And what is the truth about espionage? We look more closely:
      True, convincing evidence of the espionage activities of Lenin was never presented.

      Here's what's interesting - Lenin remained in Russia until his death, and A. Kerensky fled to the west. So who did A. Kerensky ultimately work for, for his Western masters? And why did A. Kerensky receive money from New York, and V. I. Lenin subsequently gave it back on the contrary? Explain plainly: who worked for whom?
      1. Rivares
        Rivares 3 July 2017 10: 01 New
        +3
        Quote: venaya
        Explain plainly: who worked for whom?

        Read sentences 37))) German spy, English spy, Amer spy, and all among the fiery revolutionaries of October ...
        1. venaya
          venaya 3 July 2017 10: 28 New
          +6
          Quote: Rivares
          A German spy, an English spy, an Amer spy, and all among the fiery revolutionaries of October ..

          Here, and I, too, about this very thing. Who exactly are the "fiery revolutionaries" there? According to the list: 1) - a member of the "Mensheviks" faction (and the "unionists"), the second chairman of the Petrosoviet since 1905, L.D. Bronstein (Trotsky) (killed by an ice ax in Mexico in the 1940th) .. 2) - member the BUND party, the first and last chairman of the Bolshevik Party (RSDLP (b)) Y. Sverdlov - after organizing an attempt on Lenin in 1918, he was subsequently "accidentally" beaten by the workers, as a result of which he quickly died .. 3) - head of the Masonic lodge " The Great East of Russia ", the second chairman of the VP A. Kerensky. He received $ 400 million from New York for the organization of the October Revolution (count it on the procrastinating ability of today's day), and after the “successful” implementation of the order he quickly and not noticeably dumped the owners abroad. So the question is: who is still a true "fiery revolutionary"?
      2. Vend
        Vend 3 July 2017 10: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: venaya
        Quote: Olgovich
        The Bolshevik party was accused of espionage and sabotage in favor of Germany.

        Absolute truth ..

        And what is the truth about espionage? We look more closely:
        True, convincing evidence of the espionage activities of Lenin was never presented.

        Here's what's interesting - Lenin remained in Russia until his death, and A. Kerensky fled to the west. So who did A. Kerensky ultimately work for, for his Western masters? And why did A. Kerensky receive money from New York, and V. I. Lenin subsequently gave it back on the contrary? Explain plainly: who worked for whom?

        Do not mix. Lenin used to run over a hill. Why would Lenin run if the Bolsheviks already had the strength and were preparing to take power. And they took it. Kerensky escaped because he lost power, and did not return, because there was no that support that Lenin had inside the country.
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 3 July 2017 10: 46 New
        11
        Quote: venaya
        And what is the truth about espionage?

        In sabotage against Russia.
        Quote: venaya
        That's interesting - Lenin remained in Russia until his death, and A. Kerensky fled to the west

        You confuse: fled Ulyanov, moreover, from the country in which he fat and healthy in .... link.
        Half I lived a conscious life OUTSIDE Russia and got to the point that I was forced to admit: "I don't know Russia well: Simbirsk, Kazan, Petersburg, link - that’s it all."

        Kerensky lived his whole life In Russia, together with Russia during the terrible war, in contrast to the actual deserter Ulyanov, who saved the skin abroad in wartime.

        The popularly elected deputy Kerensky was forced to emigrate from wild atrocities that had never been before in Ulyanov before.

        PS Was Ulyanov a spy? In my opinion, of course, otherwise he would not have been released from custody when he was arrested in A-Hungary after the outbreak of war, when they found ... a gun (!). "He fought all his life against Russia!" - wrote the Austrian. Esdec Adler to Franz Joseph, as a justification for the release of Ulyanov from arrest.

        Russians who ended up in Germany after the outbreak of war were beaten (the same famous Alekhine), arrested and imprisoned.
        And this miracle was released ... to Switzerland! belay Of course, he was not going to work for them, but the agent’s subscription, I think, was.
        1. venaya
          venaya 3 July 2017 11: 37 New
          11
          Quote: Olgovich
          Was Ulyanov a spy? In my opinion, of course, otherwise he would not have been released from custody when he was arrested in A-Hungary after the outbreak of war

          Very interesting and informative! And against whom exactly did V.I. Ulyanov "spy" on the territory of Austria-Hungary? Silently against Russia, the Russian Empire? You obviously have an "entertaining" logic. This became possible only after the ban on teaching the subject of school Logic, carried out by the Trotskyists in 1956. It is precisely from that year that the countdown for the defeat of Russia - Russia - RI - the USSR should be kept.
          "He fought against Russia all his life!" - the Austrian wrote. Esdec Adler to Franz Josef, as a justification for his release from the arrest of Ulyanov

          This is clearly: "Truly mysterious are the ways of the Lord"- having moved the citizen of the USA L. Trotsky (Bronstein) from the administration of the country, by the way, I doubt that it was carried out without the help of competent officers of the tsarist army, which is also available. I think that saving the country itself Russia. V.I. Lenin at least partially “I reckon my chickens in the fall” - you may remember such folk wisdom, sometimes it should be used, it’s useful, at least for the development of your own logic if it was already banned in compulsory education.
          1. Pancir026
            Pancir026 3 July 2017 11: 43 New
            16
            Quote: venaya
            V.I. Lenin at least partially redeemed his sins.

            There are no sins .. except that the inescapable rage and hatred of all Russophobes anti-Soviet.
            And so evaluated- "Berdyaev, Russian philosopher:
            “... Lenin is made of one piece, it is monolithic. The role of Lenin is a remarkable demonstration of personality in historical events. Because of this, Lenin could become the leader of the revolution and realize his long-developed plan because he was not a typical Russian intellectual. In it, the features of the Russian intellectual were combined with the features of the Russian people who assembled and built the Russian state.

            ... Lenin was a maximalist revolutionary and a state man. ...
            ... And he stopped the chaotic collapse of Russia, stopped the despotic, tyrannical way. There is a similarity with Peter in this ...

            ... Lenin could draw up a plan for organizing a communist state and implement it. As paradoxical as it sounds, Bolshevism is the third phenomenon of Russian great power, Russian imperialism ... ”
            Stalin:
            “The logic in Lenin’s speeches is some omnipotent tentacles that cover you with ticks from all sides and from which you don’t have the urge to escape: either give up or decide to fail completely”

            “As for Lenin and Peter the Great, the latter was a drop in the sea, and Lenin was a whole ocean”
            Vladimir Nikolaevich Ipatiev (1867–1952), tsarist general, scientist-chemist:
            “The mediocre members of the Provisional Government laughed at Lenin's speeches and believed that the theses preached by him did not pose any threat to them, since there would be no proper number of followers to implement them. But Lenin knew what he preached and what he wanted. He was a cut above all his associates and had a firm character, he did not rush from side to side, perfectly understanding the whole situation in Russia, both in the rear and at the front ...
            One could completely disagree with many of the ideas of the Bolsheviks, their slogans could be considered as utopias, but one must be impartial and recognize that the transfer of power to the hands of the proletariat in October 1917, carried out by Lenin and Trotsky, determined the salvation of the country, freeing it from anarchy and while keeping alive the intelligentsia and material wealth of the country. I often had to, both in Russia and abroad, express my beliefs that in 1917-1919 I survived only thanks to the Bolsheviks .... "
            Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich Romanov:
            "None other than the internationalist Lenin stood guard over Russian national interests, who in his constant speeches did not spare his strength to protest against the division of the former Russian empire."
            Sukhomlinov, Russian cavalry general, Minister of War
            I see another pledge for the future of Russia in the fact that it has in its power a presumptuous, firm and guided by a great political ideal government. This political ideal cannot be mine. The people around Lenin are not my friends, they do not represent my ideal of national heroes. But I can no longer call them "robbers and robbers" after it turned out that they raised only the abandoned: the throne and power. Their worldview is unacceptable to me. And yet, slowly and uncertainly, the hope awakens in me that they will lead the Russian people - perhaps, in addition to their will, along the right path to the right goal and new power. ... I still can’t believe in it, but all the more so wish ... in view of the countless terrible sacrifices that required the destruction of the old system. That my hopes are not entirely utopian, proves that my worthy former employees and colleagues, such as Generals Brusilov, Baltic and Dobrovolsky, gave their strength to the new government in Moscow; there is no doubt that they did this, of course, making sure that Russia, under the new regime, is on the right path to full revival.

            So that "sins" .. it's all dust. But the CASE that he did is in the CENTURY. Even and if so far in the country, the Februaryists temporarily rule ..
          2. Olgovich
            Olgovich 3 July 2017 11: 48 New
            +8
            Quote: venaya
            Very interesting and informative! And against whom exactly did V. I. Ulyanov “spy” on the territory Austria-Hungaryand? Neusto against Russia

            belay
            I have nothing to answer for ITrequest
            Yes, just in case: He was arrested by the Austrian police yes
            Quote: venaya
            You obviously have an "entertaining" logic.

            Once again: Ulyanov was arrested in A Venria, police officers for a pistol, after the outbreak of war with Russia. By what "logic" could he be a spy against Russia ?! belay lol
            Quote: venaya
            I think that saving the country itself Russia. V.I. Lenin at least partially redeemed his sins.

            he ruined her.
            Quote: venaya
            Chickens in the fall consider "- you can remember such folk wisdom, sometimes it should be used, it’s useful, at least for the development of your own logic if it was already banned in compulsory education

            when is autumn? lol
            1. Pancir026
              Pancir026 3 July 2017 12: 06 New
              10
              Quote: Olgovich
              when is autumn?

              Another aggravation for you?
              Lord .. well, why are you funny in your limitations ..
              Well, who are you ... and who is LENIN ??
              A.P. Karpinsky, Russian geologist, academician, from MAY 1917 until the end of his life, the first elected president of the Russian Academy of Sciences:
              "Vladimir Ilyich possessed a rare positive quality — he knew how to recognize his mistakes, which were absolutely inevitable in the enormous and complex enterprise he had conceived, and resolutely corrected the mistakes made by the local authorities during its implementation if the measures of the latter did not correspond to the true intentions of Lenin.

              ... Thanks to his cares, with his wide assistance and encouragement, the quantitative growth of academic institutions and institutes began, increasing the territory they occupy to the size of a whole town and making our Academy one of a kind among other academies of world significance. "
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 3 July 2017 12: 48 New
                +4
                Quote: Pancir026
                and who is LENIN ??

                Well, you directly bombarded with quotes great people, here's another one from the famous preacher of Marxism in Russia, from Plekhanov from one of the founders of the RSDLP:
                He, you know, is slimy and ruffy, but a large personality with enormous significance in the history of the labor movement ....
                1. Pancir026
                  Pancir026 3 July 2017 12: 58 New
                  +6
                  Quote: bober1982
                  Well, you just fell asleep with quotes of great people

                  So you study, you study is useful. But Plekhanov .. Plekhanov is.
                  Otherwise, he could not answer about the role of Lenin -
                  Quote: bober1982
                  a prominent figure in the history of the labor movement ....
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 3 July 2017 13: 08 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    So you study, study for you is useful

                    Plekhanov did not please, so maybe from the memoirs of Maria Alexandrovna Ulyanova, from the life of a large personality in a terrible tsarist exile:
                    In general, our current life resembles a shaped country life. They feed us well, drink plenty of milk, and we all thrive here. I have not got used to Volodya’s current healthy appearance. (letter from Krupskaya dated 26.06.1898/XNUMX/XNUMX)
                    1. Pancir026
                      Pancir026 3 July 2017 13: 20 New
                      +7
                      Quote: bober1982
                      so maybe from the memories

                      Are you going to give me “memories” from Pihoy’s Augean stables and other falsifiers? Why? Or fakes from the well-known liar fund A. Yakovlev? Why? To show your belonging to these falsifiers?
                      You didn’t get this patch from here? http://forum-ukraina.net/threads/kto-dlja-vas-len
                      in-opros.20505 / page-7
                      A penny is worth your knowledge
                      1. bober1982
                        bober1982 3 July 2017 13: 53 New
                        +2
                        from Krupskaya’s letter, my knowledge, your imagination ran out.
                  2. Monarchist
                    Monarchist 3 July 2017 19: 48 New
                    +2
                    In fact, Yakovlev can also find interesting information. Cato the Elder also said that in every book there is something to learn.
                    Another thing is that the author’s tendentiousness must be taken into account. It’s the same as writing down all German psychologists as fascists. The most interesting thing is that in the thirties there was a dawn of psychology. Soviet psychologists learned from German (take Any textbook on the history of psychology published in the 80s and later).
                    1. Pancir026
                      Pancir026 4 July 2017 12: 58 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Monarchist
                      Cato Senior said that in every book there is something to learn.

                      But then you, conditionally, "monarchists are non-white" DO NOT learn anything.
                      Streams of lies, some kind of fabrications, some gossip. Myths - are you really hoping. What will you achieve by the shaft of Chernukha in the past? Is this in the age of the Internet?
                      The Yakovlevsky archive is a garbage collector, a collection of falshak.
        2. MrK
          MrK 3 July 2017 21: 37 New
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Of course, he was not going to work for them, but the agent’s subscription, I think, was.


          On the question of the German spy Lenin and the “sealed carriage” on which the Bolsheviks from Germany arrived in Sweden. The fact, as they say, took place. However less known that in addition to a couple dozen Bolsheviks, 169 members of other parties — Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, Bundists, Social Democrats, Finnish nationalists, etc. — also got through Germany from Switzerland to Sweden through Germany in sealed wagons..
          So, by analogy with Lenin, all of them can also be called "German spies." But all the accusations are only against Lenin.

          And further. As information. The famous English spy George Hill, in his autobiographical book My Spy Life, published in Russia in 2000, tells who produced the fake documents about the financing of the Bolsheviks by the Germans. Hill was an ardent anti-communist and participated in several conspiracies against the Soviet government. So there is no reason to suspect Hill of sympathy for the Bolsheviks.
          And the initiator of the legend that the Bolsheviks, in particular Lenin, were agents of Germany, according to Hill, was the Minister of Arms of France Albert Thom, and the developer and executor was the captain of the French intelligence, Pierre Laurent. It was he who propagated in the summer of 1917 the idea of ​​the Germans using the Bolsheviks and Lenin personally as "paid German agents." The head of the counterintelligence of the Provisional Government, Boris Nikitin, helped him disseminate this information.
      4. Monarchist
        Monarchist 3 July 2017 19: 15 New
        +2
        venaya. A. And Denikin in "Essays on Russian Troubles" cites the story of a Russian officer who was captured and feignedly agreed to recruit. He was told there that on the instructions of intelligence they were sent to the Russians: Lenin and Skoropis-Ilovuisky. Read.
        Of course, Lenin was not an eyewitness or saboteurs in the literal sense of the word, rather he was an "agent of influence", but inverted: he was interested in defeating Russia, and this corresponded to German plans.
        1. MrK
          MrK 3 July 2017 21: 53 New
          +5
          Quote: Monarchist
          Of course, Lenin was not an eyewitness or saboteurs in the literal sense of the word, rather he was an "agent of influence", but inverted: he was interested in defeating Russia, and this corresponded to German plans.


          How deeply liberal nonsense penetrated the heads of our people.
          Lenin put forward his famous slogan “Let us turn the imperialist war into a civil war” in August 1914, addressing the working people and socialists of ALL warring states, implying their SIMULTANEOUS opposition to the imperialists - the organizers of the war, and not just Russia. (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch., 5 ed., Vol. 26, C.32, 180, 362).

          As for the book of Denikin.
          This whole catastrophe with German money began, with the fact that in April of the seventeenth on the front line they detained the ensign wandering from German captivity of the 16 Siberian Rifle Regiment Ermolenko. During interrogation in counterintelligence, he began to tell that the insidious Germans, two officers of the General Staff, recruited him and sent him to Russia to campaign in favor of a separate peace with Germany, by all power to undermine the people's confidence in the Provisional Government.
          Moreover, these two Teutons told him in a friendly manner that similar German campaigns had been carried out for a long time on German money by old German agents - the chairman of the Ukrainian section of the Union for the Liberation of Ukraine Skoropis-Ioltukhovsky, Ulyanov-Lenin and several other socialists.
          Well, can a sober-minded person who is more or less familiar with the principles of the secret services — especially German intelligence — not stupid or weak, believe this nonsense.
          For an analogy: let’s imagine that in the forty-fourth year, the Soviet military counterintelligence Smersh whipped up the German sergeant major and sent him off the front line to count the tanks of the Dead Head division. And at the same time they blurted out: - Yes, you will be in Berlin, go to the Standartenfuhrer Stirlitz. He’s not Stirlitz, but our man, Colonel Isaev, if anything, you there with him along for Partigenigenoss Bormann follow ...
          How much they believe in any stupidity. Goebbels was right. The stronger the lie, the more people will remain in the head.
        2. Pancir026
          Pancir026 4 July 2017 13: 03 New
          +4
          Quote: Monarchist
          gives the story of one Russian officer

          Blah blah blah rumors, foolish rumors, .. that’s all your information resource.
          You there have plagued the Caton to write .. excuse me, get
          http://agitpolk.ru/2016/11/05/russian-revolution/
          Every revolution has an intellectual center, which is designed to inflate chaos and "revolutionary energy of the masses." We also note that the intensification of the political struggle in Russia began in the fall of 1904, at the height of the war with Japan. From this it is possible to assume that in tsarist circles there were persons interested in the defeat of tsarism in this war.

          The leading role in the Russian opposition to tsarism at that time was played by the liberal “Union of Liberation”, the core of which came out of the editors of the journal “Liberation”, founded by the son of the Perm Governor Pyotr Bernhardovich Struve in 1902.

          From 1902 to 1905, the magazine was published regularly in Stuttgart, and then Paris, and was the most influential of illegal Russian magazines. Struve began to establish ties with all opposition parties and movements, including socialists.



          The group of founders of the illegal "Union of Liberation" in 1902 in Germany. From left to right: P. Struve, N. Struve, V. Bogucharsky; below: N. Berdyaev and S. Frank.

          In early 1902, Struve arrived in Munich to establish contacts with V. I. Lenin and the Iskra newspaper. Lenin flatly refused even a meeting. The Social Revolutionaries went to cooperate with the liberators in the struggle against the autocracy. From national minorities, Struve managed to establish relations with the Finnish opposition;
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        1. Mikado
          Mikado 3 July 2017 11: 08 New
          +7
          The Russian army was the most combat-ready

          I didn’t read the article, but one of the emigrants, it seems, (the phrase remained in my memory) wrote that the army was allegedly equipped technically in the 17th year as never before. This was all useless after February - you had to think before! request
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 3 July 2017 11: 50 New
            +8
            Mikado in 1917 I agree The Russian army was technically better equipped than in 1914, but far from other armies participating in the PM! Let's take at least machine guns: “In the Russian army from 1914 to 1917 the number of machine guns increased 6 times (from 4152 to 23800 in 1917), in Germany from 1914 to 1918 - 9 (from 12000 to 104000 in 1918), in Austro-Hungarian - 16 times (from 2761 to 43777), in French - 20 (from 5000 to 100000, the main increase was made by light machine guns). "Machine guns in the First World War
            ww1.milua.org ›mgPMW.htm! and if we talk about aviation, cars, the situation is generally depressing! hi
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 3 July 2017 12: 06 New
              +6
              definitely agree completely! hi this is not to mention the absence (no, some were, but the numbers are incomparable) of high-power guns. For this .. Russian soldiers answered with their blood!
              If I am not mistaken, the data you provided is in the table in the TSB in the article "World War I". I looked at this table as a teenager, and my armpit hair got up from such an imbalance. belay usually in such cases they ask the question: "How to fight something?" Here somehow they fought .. nasty, in short. My opinion is that after February it was useless for Russians to fight exactly. negative
            2. IvanTheTerrible
              IvanTheTerrible 3 July 2017 16: 37 New
              +4
              Take at least machine guns

              The tsarist government worked closely on this issue, for your information.
              In August 1916, the construction of the First Russian Joint-Stock Company of Gun and Machine Gun Mills started in the city of Kovrov, owned by the Danes, and machine tools and equipment for the plant came from Copenhagen (Russian personnel were hired only for secondary posts, for work of the “lowest discharges ”), in January 1917, the plant received a license for the exclusive production of the“ three-line Madsen submachine gun ”with all accessories,“ for the delivery of such to the Russian army and navy, both in war and in peacetime ”. On January 28, 1917, agreement No. 21 was concluded with the Main Artillery Directorate for the production and supply of 15 machine guns (at a price of 000 rubles 1733 kopecks per machine gun with spare parts and accessories), it was planned to start production 30 months after the signing of the contract. On August 5, 12, the GAU took tests of the first four machine guns made in Kovrov with spare trunks.
              1. Uncle Murzik
                Uncle Murzik 4 July 2017 07: 15 New
                +4
                IvanTheTerrible what year worked? belay but to sense laughing no matter how much you say halvah, it won’t become sweeter! compare the numbers with other warring countries, and it becomes clear that Russia was in full service with weapons! and if we take into account the fact that the Russian army was the most massive! hi
            3. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 6 July 2017 17: 31 New
              0
              But it fought better than other armies, it was better general training and an officer and an ordinary soldier. And the RKKA’s pieces of iron were thousands, they abandoned everything and fled, we had to overwhelm with myas despite industrialization!
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 6 July 2017 21: 30 New
                +2
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                But it fought better than other armies, it was better general training and an officer and an ordinary soldier. And the RKKA’s pieces of iron were thousands, they abandoned everything and fled, we had to overwhelm with myas despite industrialization!

                If it were true. then they wouldn’t lose the Japanese, and in the imperialist they wouldn’t surrender the European part. And in 1945 they would not have taken Berlin.
              2. Pancir026
                Pancir026 6 July 2017 22: 05 New
                0
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                in spite of industrialization, heaped up with meat!

                Can you tell me in which class you graduated from your non-brilliant education? Let’s say that you still use fakes that have a place in a landfill?
        2. IvanTheTerrible
          IvanTheTerrible 3 July 2017 16: 34 New
          +6
          here recently in VO there were articles by the “historian” Oleinikov in which he pounded on the chest that in 1917 the Russian army was the most combat-ready

          So, therefore, the top of the Russian elite decided on the February coup — they decided that they would manage to do this themselves without the Tsar.
          But Russia was so arranged that everything rested on only one person, removing which you automatically get the collapse of the whole system.
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 4 July 2017 07: 18 New
            +5
            Yes Yes ! laughing only the Russian army suffered defeats for defeats, especially on the German front! everyone saw not the ability of the nicholas' ampira and his approximation to lead the country! Dissatisfaction with the war and the authorities grew. In November 1916, one of the officers located in Mogilev Stavka wrote to the Duma: "Give us peace, here is the slogan of the current soldiers." The summary of sentiments in the armies of the Western and Northern Fronts, submitted to the government at the beginning of 1917, noted: “The possibility that the troops will be on the side of the coup and overthrow the dynasty is permissible, because, loving the king, they are still too dissatisfied with the entire government of the country” . Due to the growing transport disruption, at the end of 1916 only 61% of the required food was received by the fronts, and only 1917% in February 42. On the eve of the revolution, only two days remained on the northern front of Petrograd, the first world war (1914-1918). Entente...
            bibliotekar.ru ›Table of Contents› 80.htm
        3. Monarchist
          Monarchist 3 July 2017 19: 52 New
          +1
          Uncle Murzik, you exaggerated a little: Oleinikov wrote about the period until the summer ¹1917, and reread it best
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 4 July 2017 09: 08 New
            +1
            Monarchist to exaggerate just yours and Oleinikov’s prerogative! hi
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        1. Finches
          Finches 3 July 2017 12: 37 New
          +6
          Olgovich, you are boring to write! If all flies die like this - where is the expression, where is the splendor and dizzying pirouettes of syllogisms, where are the murderers on the spot arguments seasoned with juicy metaphors ...? And then everything is the same:"Jews, German money, April theses ..." Olgovich, you will be kicked out of Bucharest and your passport will be taken for professional inappropriateness ....laughing
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          2. MrK
            MrK 3 July 2017 21: 58 New
            +5
            Quote: Finches
            Olgovich, you will be kicked out of Bucharest and your passport will be taken for professional inappropriateness ...


            They will not expel. He is the Lord of the fanariots.
  2. Military Builder
    Military Builder 3 July 2017 07: 07 New
    +8
    Quote: Olgovich
    The absolute truth is that what the Bolsheviks did at the front in the PMV, in 1941 they put him to the wall without trial

    therefore, WWII and WWII ended for Russia (USSR) in different ways
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 3 July 2017 08: 11 New
      10
      Quote: War Builder
      therefore, WWII and WWII ended for Russia (USSR) in different ways


      Certainly: in WWII, Russia's losses are -10% of the world’s losses, in WWII-55% of the world’s losses (all without China).
      By the way, the Brest defeat-betrayal was signed exclusively by the Bolsheviks.
      No one else was going to do it. yes
      1. Military Builder
        Military Builder 3 July 2017 08: 36 New
        +9
        I already wrote above that the Bolsheviks of 1918 and 1945 are completely different people
        1. andrew42
          andrew42 3 July 2017 14: 06 New
          0
          I support. That is the whole point.
        2. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 6 July 2017 17: 05 New
          0
          Kaganovich, Zemlyachka, Voroshilov, Dzhugashvili-they just got old, no more than that.
      2. Diana Ilyina
        Diana Ilyina 3 July 2017 09: 05 New
        26
        Olgovich Today, 08:11 ↑ New
        Certainly: in WWII, Russia's losses are -10% of the world’s losses, in WWII-55% of the world’s losses (all without China).
        Again, deal with LIES and the substitution of concepts ... In WWI, no one set the task of the total destruction of Russia. The task was to bleed and weaken, although it was much weaker to weaken. But in the Second World War, it was about total destruction. So do not here la la about poplar.
        I am amazed how the earth only wears you? request And if all the same there is God in the world, then you certainly have a place in Hell prepared!
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 3 July 2017 09: 22 New
          +4
          Quote: Diana Ilyina
          And if all the same there is God in the world, then you certainly have a place in Hell prepared!

          Dear Diana Ilyina, it is very reckless to engage in the distribution of hellish or heavenly places to anyone, so as not to go into theology - this is not servile business. One must be very careful in approaching such a question, or you know, anything can be, and you can please yourself (oh), and not in paradise.
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 3 July 2017 09: 40 New
            +9
            bober1982 after the canonization of nicholas the second is a servile thing! lol
          2. Boris55
            Boris55 3 July 2017 11: 48 New
            +5
            Quote: bober1982
            and you know, anything can be, and you (oh) can be catered for, and far from paradise.

            The posthumous retribution in the form of heaven and hell was invented for the obedience of slaves. There is no hell or heaven. We come from nowhere and go nowhere. If a person is in eternal bliss, then this is not paradise, but rather a madhouse, look around to see if there are any “angels” standing in white coats. A person gets used to everything, including flour, and ultimately takes them for granted as rain, snow, heat ... well, etc .. I’m sorry that is off topic.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 3 July 2017 12: 05 New
              +3
              Quote: Boris55
              I apologize for being off topic.

              Well, why not on the topic, it’s even relevant, but you need to speak carefully and not speak like dear Ilyin, but it’s best to keep silent.
              As our great elder John Krestyankin said ..........talking about God, when they still do not have a tendency to hear about Him, is not necessary. You will provoke them to blasphemy.
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                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 3 July 2017 12: 50 New
                  +2
                  Thanks for the invitation, but no desire.
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri 3 July 2017 10: 25 New
          10
          Quote: Diana Ilyina
          I am amazed how the earth only wears you? And if all the same there is God in the world, then you certainly have a place in Hell prepared!

          Asalam vaaleikum Diana Hon love, about such people there is a wonderful film: "These" https://oper.ru/news/read.php?t=1051619456 their land, oddly enough, always calmly carried ... And before the TNB for them is the Holy, Passion-Rag Rag put up. In vain, did they canonize !!! laughing And, in general, the fault of the Communists is a matter now, well, oh, very pious.
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            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 3 July 2017 14: 57 New
              +8
              Good day, Diana and all like-minded people !!!!!! "To find fault with the Communists" "====== kicking a wounded lion. !!!!!. I still hope that after a serious illness, health returns, so and in the case of our country --- the health of society will return !! Dreams about socialism, communism have spread throughout the world. In Belarus, on a holiday, the USSR flag. In Ecuador now ---- Lenin Moreno !!!!!
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 4 July 2017 13: 06 New
                +5
                Quote: Reptiloid
                Good day, Diana and all like-minded people !!!!!! "" To find fault with the Communists "" ====== kicking a wounded lion. !!!!!.

                That’s what, with the removal of comments, the olgovichi and K. are trying to do
                The organizer of the First Russian Revolution is Professor of History P. N. Milyukov.

                The final text of the resolution of the Paris Conference was drawn up by P. N. Milyukov. The text included three main points:

                - The destruction of the autocracy; repeal of all measures that violate the constitutional rights of Finland.

                - Replacing the autocratic system with a free democratic regime on the basis of universal suffrage.

                - The right to national self-determination; freedom of national development guaranteed by laws for all nationalities; the elimination of violence by the Russian government in relation to individual nations.

                The text was published by the press of all the assembled parties on the same day in mid-November 1904, which made a great impression on society. // Milyukov P.N. Between the Tsar and the Revolution. Paris // Memoirs (1859-1917): in 2 volumes / ed. M. M. Karpovich and B. I. Elkin. New York, 1955. T. 1. Part 5: Years of wandering (1895-1905).
                To the question of who destroyed the Russian Empire
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            3. Olgovich
              Olgovich 3 July 2017 13: 03 New
              +8
              Quote: Diana Ilyina
              У me the feeling that the world is slow going crazy!

              Yes? But the world thinks, on the contrary! hi
            4. Hantengri
              Hantengri 3 July 2017 23: 03 New
              +7
              Quote: Diana Ilyina
              How many times have I already been convinced of the correctness of the words of Nikolai Starikov: scratch the anti-Soviet, you will find a Russophobe!

              Comrade Diana negative , it’s not Starikova’s words, it’s a rehash (the subject, in general, is prone to plagiarism), Starikov’s, Goblinskaya’s (D. Puchkov’s) maxims: “The anti-Soviet is always Russophobe!” Well, be careful with lord Starikov. Indeed, it is from his filing that the mass of semi-literate DB, on the Internet, relishes the following myths: "A sealed car = Lenin - an English spyEong", "Bolsheviks, (Japanese = English spyEOn) are to blame for the fact that RI lost the RYAV." And (I exaggerate): "The Englishwoman was crap, even to the Russian Pithecanthropus!" You can read about how this “passenger” handles historical facts here: Klim Zhukov. "Old Man's History" (About the methods of historical research of a popular writer, blogger and politician on the example of the First Russian Revolution and the Russo-Japanese War.) http://red-sovet.su/post/29476/starikovskaya-isto
              riya
              and Peter Balaev.
              "Anti-Old Men. Why history is still science." http://bookz.ru/authors/petr-balaev/anti-sta_794/
              1-anti-sta_794.html
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 4 July 2017 13: 10 New
                +5
                Quote: HanTengri
                can read here

                In addition, there is something to read about the topic of who works against Russia now and against the USSR in the past. An interesting reading.
                http://agitpolk.ru/2017/01/13/belomonarhicheskie_
                dvizheniya /
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        1. bober1982
          bober1982 3 July 2017 09: 41 New
          +7
          Quote: Long in stock.
          PMV is a banal war for colonies and redistribution of the market

          The WWII was not so banal, the result of the war was the liquidation of three Christian empires - for this, this war began, and it set such tasks. The old Europe began to degrade quickly, Russia slipped into chaos, redivision of markets and new colonies - the tenth issue.
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 3 July 2017 09: 46 New
            +8
            well of course .. just because of the colonies it started. Germany was not allowed to enter new markets, but it was necessary to develop. so this is the first question. and the most important one. well, plus the great desire of the French to get even for their defeat .. otherwise why did they make so much money for the development of railways and not just everywhere, namely in Poland and the Baltic states ..
          2. long in stock.
            long in stock. 3 July 2017 09: 47 New
            +7
            agadir crisis and panther leap very clearly showed long before all this ..
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        2. Mikado
          Mikado 3 July 2017 13: 48 New
          +9
          That is, it turns out that you acknowledge that it was the Bolsheviks of Lenin who turned out to be the only ones who cared for the interests of the very country of Russia themselves, the rest turned out to work for the interests of the foreign "uncle", apparently "Uncle Sam".

          I don’t know how much they cared about Russia (with ideas about the “world revolution”, etc.), but the Bolsheviks were the only oneswho imagined how to take power and not release it. Despite the coolness of the measures. That is, the rigidity and talent of administrators and agitators will not be denied.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 3 July 2017 15: 14 New
            +8
            I agree, Nikolai, about talents. But they didn’t start a war in the country for their candle factory and other junk. No wonder the opponents saw self-interest in the actions of the Bolsheviks. Everyone judges by himself.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 3 July 2017 15: 23 New
              +3
              I, Doctor, will not dare discuss the Civil War. Each side had its own values, and each fought for its own. I will say this - for me, it was a tragedy.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 3 July 2017 15: 50 New
                10
                Yes, a tragedy. Only some began the tragedy precisely because of their junk, due to the fact that they remained in 2 percent of the “noble”. To be someone among the masses of illiterate people. And dream how to "equip Russia" in the English manner.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 3 July 2017 15: 56 New
                  +3
                  oh, I don’t presume to discuss - I value your society too much. drinks
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 3 July 2017 16: 46 New
                    +7
                    Thank you, Nikolai for your appreciation, but I also value your company. Therefore, I will express only one thought, not formulated by me. The revolutions are always to blame only for the current government. Forgetting power that we all live according to biological laws. And how much competition is not limited to class or caste frames, but it will still find a way to realize itself. And then an explosion occurs, as we have or quietly, as in India. There, as I recall, castes. So, here, outside of them there are untouchables, that is, those who do the dirty work. During the reign of the British, those who cleaned the gentlemen simply inflated the prices of their services. As a result, the British had to pay, otherwise a loss of face, and as a result, this category of people, outside the castes, had enough money to teach their children in the same England. Total: the greed and stupidity of those in power, this is the reason for these or other revolutions, and not stupidity in terms of searching for English or German money for supposedly agents and spies.
          2. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 6 July 2017 17: 14 New
            0
            Well, Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo was also quite talented in his own way.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 6 July 2017 17: 20 New
              +1
              Damn, well, do not compare. in FIG. hi
      6. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 3 July 2017 11: 55 New
        10
        Quote: Olgovich
        in WWII, Russia's losses are -10% of the world’s losses, in WWII-55% of the world’s losses

        In WWI, Germany held about 2/3 of its forces in the West, and 1/3 in the East; In WWII, about 3/4 of the Germans fought against us.
        Plus, as already correctly noted:
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        in WWII it was a question of total destruction


        Quote: Olgovich
        Brest defeat-betrayal signed exclusively by the Bolsheviks

        Before you blame the Bolsheviks, at least this article was first mastered. The Russian Armed Forces, long before Brest, were already practically unworkable, and therefore had to go to that obscene world.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 July 2017 13: 18 New
          +8
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          In WWI, Germany held about 2/3 of its forces in the West, and 1/3 in the East; in WWII fought against us about 3/4 of the Germans.

          These are examples of the victory of the RI policy and the failure of the next regime’s policy.
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Before you blame the Bolsheviks, at least this article was first mastered

          You would give advice to yourself.
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          The Russian Armed Forces, long before Brest, were already practically unworkable, and therefore had to go to that obscene world.

          What do you mean? belay The Germans, stupid, didn’t know and demanded .... to demobilize the army and navy (which you didn’t lol )
          1. rkkasa xnumx
            rkkasa xnumx 3 July 2017 14: 56 New
            10
            Quote: Olgovich
            These are examples of the victory of the RI policy.

            Awesome victory: 1 - get involved in a world massacre for the interests of a handful of your own and the Anglo-French (yeah, those are still friends) bourgeois; 2 - get involved without being properly prepared for this slaughter.
            Quote: Olgovich
            The Germans, stupid, didn’t know and demanded .... to demobilize the army and navy (which you didn’t

            Well, why do you blatantly shit? About the fact that we allegedly did not have an army and navy, I did not say anything.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Would you give advice to yourself

            Strange you ... I have kindly, for your own good, advised you to read the article first ... and you mean like that ... Well, God be with you, remain ignorant, it is a household thing.
            All the best.
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              1. Uncle Murzik
                Uncle Murzik 4 July 2017 07: 31 New
                +2
                Olgovich again reprints Bandera-Ukrainian history textbook laughing
      7. timyr
        timyr 3 July 2017 18: 48 New
        +6
        As always, Olgovich is mistaken, the first Universites to sign the Brest Peace were glad to surrender Ukraine to the German protectorate, and the Germans began blackmailing the Bolsheviks on the basis of this treaty.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 July 2017 19: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: timyr
          As always, Olgovich is mistaken, some Unrovtsy were the first to sign the Brest Peace

          I have written, who is the first, who is the second? fool
          1. Uncle Murzik
            Uncle Murzik 4 July 2017 16: 26 New
            +2
            On November 13, after the surrender of Germany, the Brest Peace was annulled. Lenin called it a “miserable world” and regarded it as a necessary respite for the establishment of a new government. At the Seventh Extraordinary Party Congress, convened on March 6, 1918, to consider the treaty with the central powers, he convinced his comrades: “One must never be bound by formal considerations in a war. It’s ridiculous not to know military history, not to know that a treaty is a means of gathering strength ... Some definitely, like children, think: signed a treaty, which means it sold itself to Satan,
            went to hell. It’s just funny when military history speaks more clearly that signing a treaty in case of defeat is a means of gathering strength. ” Lenin was sure that the fast revolution in Germany would turn the Brest Treaty into a scrap of paper, and he was not mistaken in his calculations.
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  4. avva2012
    avva2012 3 July 2017 13: 03 New
    +7
    Quote Olgovich: In Razliv, in a hut - somersault. lol

    Quote Olgovic: with the sweet and nasty Gersh Aron lol. Why be afraid?
    Russia is the freest country in the world (Ulyanov, April 1917 theses)

    Who, what hurts, is he talking about that? wink
    1. Finches
      Finches 3 July 2017 14: 05 New
      +7
      I apologize, but you used the argument of Olgovich and others like them ... In Bucharest, on the contrary, it welcomes a “healthy” Western society, to be heterosexual, this is a bad man! hi
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 3 July 2017 15: 08 New
        +5
        Did you use the argument of Olgovich? Yes, it's almost a duel! Almost kidding. Now, the thought will come to your mind, how to Olgovich? I doubt it. And he came. Two men in the spill. So what? For a person with a normal orientation, nothing. And for others, the "Brokeback Mountain" seems to be. This is not their argument, but a scientifically based concept. And the people in their wisdom, already without any clinical research, understood for a long time and came up with an appropriate saying.
  5. Finches
    Finches 3 July 2017 16: 09 New
    11
    Olgovich,
    Olgovich, really tired! His peremptory rhetoric and stupidity! I leave your rudeness outside the brackets ..., especially the stone in the Russian officers, God be your judge! Odessa and Kharkov are Russian cities and Bessarabia - but who blew them away to please Western capital in '91? You yesterday, and even today with foam at the mouth, proved that you won the white and the three-color flag is the best proof of their victory! But is it not as a result of this victory that Odessa and Kharkov split off ??? You contradict yourself, mister "vodka from me!" Good luck on watering my homeland g ... I will not wish - but you are in Bucharest, and therefore you feel your impunity! Kasparov and Khodorkovsky are also bold - one in the USA, the second in Switzerland ... laughing
  6. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 3 July 2017 18: 35 New
    0
    We kindly request the moderators to erase the whole thread of comments in connection with their absolute lack of fitness. In addition to clarifying the relationship there is nothing more. They do not carry any informativeness or elementary discussion of the article.
    1. Pancir026
      Pancir026 4 July 2017 11: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: Trapper7
      They do not carry any informativeness or elementary discussion of the article.

      Next time, when in a similar way the troll will be covered by the nickname Olgovich, with the complete erasing of the comments-answers to his fables, you will have to insert copies of the answers so that you do not write what you wrote.
  7. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 3 July 2017 18: 47 New
    12
    World wars are a crime of world imperialism against the peoples of the world. Tsarist Russia also participated in this crime. The Provisional Government, having launched an offensive, continued the criminal policy of the tsarist government. But the main goal of the interim government was to distract the people from internal problems in order to restore their authority in the country by military victory. Failed...
    The Great October Socialist Revolution pulled Russia out of this world crime, the Bolsheviks called for peace, to which all the peoples of the world aspired. But the world bourgeoisie has not yet solved all its tasks of redistributing markets and colonies, and therefore organized an intervention against Soviet Russia. The Soviets did not have the strength to fight, the new government had to accumulate strength, create a new army, and in order to get at least some respite from the war, the Bolsheviks had to go to all the humiliating proposals of the Brest Peace.
    This is not a betrayal, this is the preservation of Russia. Remember how we behaved in childhood with a stronger offender: we retreated, went to the gym, pumped up muscles and learned to fight. So did the Soviet government. During even a short respite, which the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries foiled, the Bolsheviks managed to create a new Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army, which defeated all the interventionists and their accomplices from the white movement and eventually revived the state in a new capacity, in the form of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
    1. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 4 July 2017 09: 31 New
      0
      how beautiful! how epic! oh, what a misery! (this is not a typo)
      Your comment looks especially good against the background of this:
      Proceeding from the imperialist nature of the war, Lenin determined the position of the party in relation to it. He put forward the slogan: turn the imperialist war into a civil war. “A revolution during a war is a civil war,” Lenin pointed out. Therefore, the Bolsheviks fought for a revolution in the conditions of the world imperialist war under the slogan of turning it into a civil war.
      V. I. LENIN FULL COLLECTION OF WORKS FIFTH EDITION
      PUBLISHING HOUSE OF POLITICAL LITERATURE MOSCOW • 1969
      Quote: Alexander Green
      This is not a betrayal, this is the preservation of Russia.

      excuse me. but this is the real betrayal! set a goal for the citizens of one country to kill each other, pouring blood on fields and groves. and not by the blood of an external enemy, which is excusable, but by the blood of their brothers, fathers, children, dooming many more to suffering from hunger and disease.
      1. Pancir026
        Pancir026 4 July 2017 11: 49 New
        +6
        Quote: Trapper7
        excuse me. but this is the real betrayal! P

        Are you sir the second copy of Olgovich? In the deleted comments, all the answers, however for you, supposedly flaunting the knowledge of the MSS, but not understanding what it is about, have to repeat the above.
        “The political crisis in Russia in February 1917 was provoked by the liberals to overthrow tsarism. It was organized by the financial and industrial oligarchy, whose goal was to seize power in Russia under the slogans of introducing a constitution and creating a“ people's government. ”The second task of this coup was to bring the Russian empire from the First World War without the gains it achieved and without the solution of the Eastern question promised by the Entente.

        The liberal leaders, as in 1904-1905, again relied on the defeat of tsarism, now in the First World War. But unlike the first revolution, this time they had a government tribune of the State Duma. It has become a powerful factor for the preparation of a new "democratic" revolution.

        The key organizer of the coup in February 2017 was the Progressive Bloc of the IV State Duma. The members of this bloc were the professor of history, the leader of the cadets (People’s Freedom Party), the editor of Rech magazine P. N. Milyukov, the Octobrists A. I. Guchkov and M. V. Rodzianko, and the British ambassador to Russia, George William Buchanan.
        OCTOBER, this is the point of rebuilding the country destroyed by your forerunners.
        And by the way. You do not indulge in re-singing of the turbidity that is injected into society through the channels of the YELTSIN Center. Http://agitpolk.ru/2017/01/24/844/
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 4 July 2017 12: 46 New
          0
          You were slightly mistaken, my friend, Pancir026 !!!! And exactly on the CENTURY at the end of your wonderful comment !!!!! However, I see a great sense in this and the foreshadowing of the future!
          That's what I wanted to say in essence. But are peasant uprisings --- are these not civil wars IN THEIR ESSENCE ??? Recently I listed them in the comments to another article. I repeat again:
          The rebellion of the Drevlyans against Prince Igor, where the people killed the monarch. The revolt of Bolotnikov, inspired by the uprising of Stepan Razin under Alexei Tishaysh. The uprising of Kondraty Bulavin under Peter the Great. The uprising of Emelyan Pugachev under Catherine II the Great. Apart from the smaller ones. And 1905 --- 1907 ??? And the protests against Stolypin innovations ???????????? However, the worst civil war is the war of the first president of the Russian Federation, under the leadership of the West, against the People! And she --- IS NOT FINISHED while the Yeltsin Center is standing ...
          1. Pancir026
            Pancir026 6 July 2017 17: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Reptiloid
            You were mistaken slightly, my friend, Pancir026 !!!! And exactly on the CENTURY

            Well, it doesn’t change the essence .. Although yes. An error .. in a hurry.
            Quote: Reptiloid
            However, the worst civil war is the war of the first president of the Russian Federation, under the leadership of the West, against the People! And it is --- NOT FINISHED while the Yeltsin Center is standing ...

            But this is one hundred percent hit.
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 4 July 2017 15: 31 New
        +3
        [quote = Trapper7 .... so that the citizens of one country kill each other, pouring blood on fields and groves. and not by the blood of an external enemy, which is excusable, but by the blood of their brothers, fathers, children, dooming many more to suffering from hunger and disease. [/ quote]

        If not for the intervention, the civil war would not have been so bloody. There were no more than 10% of monarchists, landowners, nobles, capitalists and their supporters. The alignment of class forces in Russia was in favor of the socialist revolution, and the Soviet government could easily cope with their actions. All accompanying kulak uprisings are derived from the forced introduction of the laws of the military camp in the territory controlled by the soviets. And the fact that the people no longer wanted to live in the old way, and the tops could not manage in the new way, is an objective fact of the social revolution.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 6 July 2017 17: 22 New
          0
          But there were only a few million Jews, and fewer workers than Cossacks and so on.
          By the way, the only Bolsheviks lost the election with shame.
          So the people did not want their power, except for a handful of foreigners and degenerates.
          1. Pancir026
            Pancir026 6 July 2017 17: 29 New
            +2
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            So the people did not want their power, except for a handful of foreigners and degenerates.

            Therefore, the people in the 20 years of the 20th century, all white gang-brotherhood with allies, kicked out of the country? From the great reluctance it happened?
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 6 July 2017 19: 37 New
              0
              In the year 1991? I remember, I remember, all the Communists fled to the minks, khe-khe ...
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 6 July 2017 22: 11 New
                0
                Quote: Koshnitsa
                I remember, I remember, all the Communists fled to the minks, khe-khe ...

                Khe khe..well you will have to cough for a long time ... your liberal people like Kokhov.chubais and the like Khodorkovsky with Berezovskys and bulk people have been sick of the people for less than 10 years.
                And now, it seems. You can be beaten if in case with the people. Without protection you’ll be so "brilliant" lying .. It’s not in vain that they show on TV as well as they beat your people almost live .. for Russophobia.
  8. Serge72
    Serge72 4 July 2017 14: 42 New
    15
    This is called twenty-five again.
    Kavtoradze perfectly set out the course of the operation.
    And by the way, the loss of the parties does not mean that this is a disaster. Failure - yes, but before the disaster, with all the decay - far away