Military Review

Sneaked and falling apart! The newspaper Pravda, 1934

251

Another folder with newspapers. Very heavy. In the archive they are carried on carts ...


Thy truth is like the mountains of God, and thy fate is a great abyss!
Psalm 35: 7


History and documents. So, last time we finished with 1933 (The newspaper "Pravda" of 1933 on fascism and fascists ") and today we will see what she wrote in 1934. And we will start with international events, and then we will move on to Soviet news.

As always, a very large place in the Soviet press was occupied by the fate of the defendants in the case of the arson of the Reichstag, and the newspaper Pravda constantly wrote about them. Worst of all was van der Lubbe. He was executed! “Don’t set the Reichstag on fire!”


Note on the execution of van der Lubbe


But in Poland it was a hard life!


But then, 1934 was marked by "Soviet-Polish rapprochement"


And it was expressed specifically in the extension of the Soviet-Polish non-aggression pact until 1945


The newspaper continued to write about the Nazis. Well, for example, that in Germany they can’t master the adopted four-year plan ...


And also that in neighboring Austria there are battles between workers and fascists!


Theoretical article. “Who will the working class of Germany follow?”


And then in Germany, the “Night of the Long Knives” happened, and this is what was reported in Pravda


"Rem committed suicide"

It just so happened that this material was preceded by materials from 1937, including those that talked about holey bags, loose grain and other imperfections in agriculture. But ... all this did not begin in this significant year, but much, much earlier. And if in the repressive 37th they could not end them, then what about the 34th? And here, for example, about what problems in agriculture of the USSR in 1934 the newspaper "Pravda" reported.


"Black Board" of shame!


On the collective farms of Kazakhstan, bourgeois degenerates deceived the party and Soviet power!


Ukraine by grain in a deep breakthrough!


Well, anti-state trends flourished in Eastern Siberia


As you can see, the bread "flowed" to the side in 1934. But it was just the same “tech” in 1937 ... It turns out that in three years its “current” could not be eliminated? But what is this obtained? The trend, however!


Fists are mentioned in the materials of the newspaper of 1937, and in the 34th they were supposed to be!


Although the newspaper constantly called for punishing the enemies of the people, the situation in agriculture, judging by the same articles of 1937 and the NKVD reports, did not practically change for the better


And fists stole bread, and with impunity. Here are some! ..


And then the tractors were poorly repaired ...


... and motors!


Sneaked in, so the "gang" in the MTS and ruined everything. And here you will inevitably remember the whole of our subsequent history ... Here the "gang" made it to the MTS, and in the state ... and in the state, whoever didn’t make our way up to the Central Committee. And also ... falling apart! And everyone else looked at it and only clapped their ears and blinked their eyes. It’s strange somehow ...


Here again! “Fists made their way ... and ruining the collective farm!” And numerous complaints have been counterproductive!


And this happened everywhere! The mess was complete - one word!


And then it tells how the fist again ... climbed ...


There is generally something incomprehensible. Which opportunists? Where from? Why did they need to pluck garden sowing?


What about wrecking? It already was! For example, at Mosenergo ...


But they fought with him! And so that everyone was not discouraged, demonstration processes were already being organized over pests. So far, "the little things"


And here is one of the fighters against the enemies!


And the perpetrators were brought to justice ... Including for the bad soap!


But the transport again worked badly, in one place there was one, in another - another!


But shooting training in the USSR and in the 34th and later paid great attention ...


... as well as the teaching of humanities such as history, geography, etc. It was from 1934 that they began to be taught in schools at our place.


But the main informational phenomenon of 1934 was, of course, the "Congress of Winners", the 17th Congress of the CPSU (B.)


The presidium of the congress Stalin, Kalinin, Kaganovich

1966 delegates arrived at the Congress, including 1.227 with a decisive vote and 739 with an advisory vote, who represented 1.872.488 party members and another 935.298 candidates.

“The employees of the central institutions, not counting the members of the Central Committee and the Central Control Commission, had 166 mandates, or 23%, the members of the Central Committee and the Central Control Commission — 175 mandates, or 24%, and the local party organizations had 395 mandates, or 53%.”

Among the delegates, 60% were workers and 8% peasants; Party delegates were 40%, Soviet-administrative bodies - 10,2%, agricultural workers - 10%, military - 7,3% and transport workers - 6%. However, the congress is much more interesting in other figures. Of all these chosen, “pure” and “loyal”, deserved and authoritative, over time, many were ... shot. So, of the 139 members and candidates for membership in the Central Committee of the party elected at the 70th Party Congress, 1937% were arrested and executed in 1938-1966. as "enemies of the people." Of the 1108 delegates of the same congress, with a decisive and deliberative vote, more than half - XNUMX people were convicted of counter-revolutionary actions. That is, almost every one present turned out to be the enemy in the end! Or are they so “spoiled" for the remaining three years? ..


And here is a very interesting photo. Of the 19 people, 11 on it propped their heads with their hands. Some are clearly sleeping. Either the speaker tired them beyond measure, or they were tired of everything, or simply took fatigue. But it was not necessary to give such a photo. Put everyone in the right place and then command: “Make everyone interested and listen with great attention!” And only then shoot! And so after all someone could think something bad ... And think alright. To tell!


Another interesting photo. Soviet two-tower tank T-26 with a 37-mm cannon and a machine gun fells a tree


Comrade Lebedev near the T-27 wedge


American aircraft carrier "Saratoga". A beautiful shot, isn't it? But why is he here?


PS For the time being, it will be necessary to interrupt the publication of newspaper materials for years. Archive closed for coronavirus reasons.
Author:
Articles from this series:
The newspaper "Pravda" of 1933 on fascism and fascists
Back to the Land of Soviets. Bra for a boy
Back to USSR. Information for Soviet children
Archival affairs: NKVD on peasants and Stakhanovites
Archival affairs. From “class alien” to “loss of party intuition”
Back to USSR. Mosaic of memory
By the wave of our memory
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 May 2020 05: 17 New
    11
    Good morning honest company!
    PS For the time being, it will be necessary to interrupt the publication of newspaper materials for years. Archive closed for coronavirus reasons.

    And here is the coronovirus !!!
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 May 2020 06: 07 New
      -10
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      And here is the coronovirus !!!


      Hello!

      the archive of "truth" is partly available on the Internet for 1936-1938 rr freely.

      So, of the 139 members and candidates for membership in the Central Committee of the party elected at the 70th Party Congress, 1937% were arrested and executed in 1938-1966. as "enemies of the people." Of the 1108 delegates of the same congress, with a decisive and deliberative vote, more than half - XNUMX people were convicted of counter-revolutionary actions. That is, almost every one present turned out to be the enemy in the end!

      Moreover, the vast majority of the destroyed party members with pre-revolutionary, revolutionary experience. those. they themselves, with their own hands, led themselves to a thief to death. There is, after all, the highest justice ....

      Congress went to January 1934 g, i.e. the country has just experienced the most terrible tragedy of mass mortality from hunger in its history and the history of mankind. When for a few months several times more people died than for everything year WORLD WAR!

      And NOT ONE WORD said this at this congress, brought any condolences, did not repent, did not resign, did not shoot herself, as if ... nothing happened! belay request

      at least some human feelings should be, but no, nothing .... request , some "hurray ... request

      At the same congress, the famous sounded: we became 168 million.

      Through three years the census showed ...162 million . And this despite the fact that in 1935 it was declared that we were growing on 3 million annually ... belay

      Reports of rotting grain and abandoned, useless bread - up to 26% - are indicative.
      The owner of such a will never allow. And then all the pests are to blame ... fool
      In what other regime were there so many pests? Those who were beaten, beaten, and they all "made their way and made their way" - crawled on their bellies along the corridors of collective farms, institutes, MTS, district committees and the Kremlin ...

      thanks to the author!
      1. Far B
        Far B 10 May 2020 07: 40 New
        10
        Moreover, the overwhelming majority of the destroyed party members with pre-revolutionary, revolutionary experience
        Nothing strange. Passed the test by fire and water, the test with copper pipes did not stand. The man is weak. Reborn into the "red nobility". For which they answered.
        the most terrible tragedy of mass mortality from hunger in its history and the history of mankind
        It is impossible to deny the fact of the tragedy, but ... Surely the most terrible in the history of mankind? Where did the firewood come from?
        NONE A WORD has spoken about it at this congress, has not brought condolences, has not repented, has not resigned, has not shot herself, as if ... nothing happened!
        Well, not at the congress. And then yes. Kosior associates, engaged in a period of famine in Ukraine, do not understand what, they will not let you lie (although officially, of course, he was not accused of this).
        In what other regime were there so many pests? Who were beaten, beaten, and they all "made their way and made their way"
        But is the identified pests bad? Or do you want to say that the Soviet government had no ill-wishers, and all cases of wrecking were exclusively sucked out of the finger by paranoid Stalin and his minions?
        The owner of such a thing will never allow
        Tell this to the americans of the great depression, yeah.
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 07: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Dalny V
          But is the identified pests bad? Or do you want to say that the Soviet government had no ill-wishers, and all cases of wrecking were exclusively sucked out of the finger by paranoid Stalin and his minions?

          And who told you that they are pests? Almost all were rehabilitated by the same Soviet court. You believe only one Soviet court, but not another. But there was only one system ... And what kind of court is this, "the most humane court in the world," which first condemns and then rehabilitates for lack of corpus delicti?
          1. Far B
            Far B 10 May 2020 08: 06 New
            +5
            Almost all were rehabilitated by the same Soviet court
            Really the same? Or a little different, which was already operating during the period of de-Stalinization, when Kukuruznik was ready to reconsider all the decisions of his predecessor? (I won’t even mention the Gorbachev period, they were ready to rehabilitate everyone in a row there).
            1. kalibr
              10 May 2020 08: 58 New
              -2
              Quote: Dalny V
              Really the same? Or a little different, which was already operating during the period of de-Stalinization, when Kukuruznik was ready to reconsider all the decisions of his predecessor? (I won’t even mention the Gorbachev period, they were ready to rehabilitate everyone in a row there).

              Soviet! And now, surprisingly, you believe one Soviet court, but not another. But then what kind of system is this in which one and the same court is sometimes credible, sometimes not? Well, yes ... "made their way and fall apart."
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 10: 24 New
                12
                Quote: kalibr
                Well, yes ... "made their way and fall apart."

                So you are one of those who made their way and fell apart.
                1. kalibr
                  10 May 2020 11: 52 New
                  -5
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  So you are one of those who made his way and fell apart

                  If this is you for me, Vladimir, then I am not surprised. We have figured out everything about your level of intelligence long ago. But still I repeat that there are no people who saw the branch on which they sit and cut the hen that lays the golden eggs. I already wrote that the associate professor of a Soviet university received 320 rubles. and the historians of the CPSU also worked as lecturers of regional and district committees and received 10 rubles each. for a lecture and 25 p. for participating in the "round table" (20 lectures per month were read not by all, but many!), that they went on business trips to Moscow when they wanted and brought from there ... they were treated in special clinics, where the "simple" were not allowed, and generally were the elite of Soviet university science. But they were asked for this, and they had to do everything as ordered from above. The eyes should have been burning, the voice ... the denunciations of imperialism were the very best ... So a person would try to start "falling apart" ... Immediately he would lose all this and go (at best) to teach children in a Mordovian rural school.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 12: 35 New
                    +9
                    Quote: kalibr
                    If this is you to me, Vladimir, then I am not surprised. About your level of intelligence, we have long figured out everything.

                    Of course of course. You are in the 20% smart, and I in 80 herds of sheep.
                    For some reason, it doesn’t even enter your head that if you didn’t fall apart, it was you who lost this battle as a professional ideologist of the CPSU. Maybe that's why, delving into the archives, you are looking for excuses for your loss?
                    1. kalibr
                      10 May 2020 13: 29 New
                      -5
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      it is you who lost this battle as a professional ideologist of the CPSU.

                      Finally, something clever came to your mind! Yes, we ordinary rank-and-file fighters of the ideological front lost this battle ... but not due to the fact that they shot little or not accurately. Do not you think that in this case the marshals are more to blame, not the ordinary? Ordinary just tried as best they could!
                      1. Andrey VOV
                        Andrey VOV 10 May 2020 19: 47 New
                        +6
                        Well, yes, marshals, but you can just honestly say that yes, I'm to blame ... without any of us, cogs and other things?
                      2. ser56
                        ser56 11 May 2020 22: 57 New
                        -4
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Do not you think that in this case the marshals are more to blame, not the ordinary?

                        the idea was stupid at its core .... request
            2. opus
              opus 11 May 2020 18: 59 New
              -2
              Quote: Dalny V
              Really the same?

              same. From the point of view of the Law
              Court - a public authority that administers justice in the form of consideration and resolution of criminal, civil, administrative and other categoriesate in the procedural order established by the law of a particular state.

              1926 RSFSR Criminal Code (January 1, 1927 - December 31, 1960)
              The RSFSR Criminal Code of 1960 (January 1, 1961 - December 31, 1996)


              Code of Criminal Procedure RSFSR 1923 - 1960
              Code of Criminal Procedure of the RSFSR (approved by the Supreme Court of the RSFSR on 27.10.1960) (as amended on 29.12.2001, as amended on 26.11.2002) (as amended and additional, effective from 01.07.2002)


              The process of rehabilitation of repressed persons in the USSR started in 1953-1954, illegal acts against peoples subjected to resettlement and expulsion were repealed, decisions of extra-judicial bodies of the OGPU-NKVD-MGB made in political matters were declared unlawful. However, already in the mid-1960s. the number of rehabilitated is gradually reduced, which is caused by relapses of the totalitarian policy of the state, among which there are attempts to return to Stalin's ideological principles ...
              The laws are the same

              Threat. And most of the year was the harvest of human lives framed by triples

              The triples acted from 1937 to 1938 and carried out their activities in accordance with the Operational Order of the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR dated July 30, 1937 No. 00447 "On the operation to repress former fists, criminals and other anti-Soviet elements" as part of the head of the NKVD department of the USSR for the republic , oblast), secretary of the regional committee of the CPSU (b) and the prosecutor of the republic (territory, region); had the right to sentence arrested persons to execution, as well as imprisonment in camps or prisons for a term of 8 to 10 years.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 May 2020 09: 50 New
          -11
          Quote: Dalny V
          Nothing strange. Passed the test of fire and water, the test of copper pipes did not pass.

          not a single sentence for "copper pipes and nobility" - according to the sentences everything is complete fascists, spies, izkkenniki Homeland, saboteurs, Gestapo and traitors.
          Or are you a Stalinist court ... do not believe ?!
          Quote: Dalny V
          It is impossible to deny the fact of the tragedy, but ... Surely the most terrible in the history of mankind? Where did the firewood come from?

          Read "world hunger" - nowhere in such a short time did so many people die for such a large number of people - by 1933
          Quote: Dalny V
          Well, not at the congress. And then yes. Kosior associates who were engaged in a period of famine in Ukraine do not understand what, they will not let you lie (although officially, of course, he was not blamed for this).
          So, not for that.
          Or don't you believe the Court? And not everyone is punished, the same kaganovich

          Why haven't they told people the truth? They don't deserve it, huh? Only for the elite? "People's" power, you can immediately see ...
          Quote: Dalny V
          But is the identified pests bad? Or do you want to say that the Soviet government had no ill-wishers, and all cases of wrecking were exclusively sucked out of the finger by paranoid Stalin and his minions?

          WHERE are pests in other countries, and even in such numbers and in almost every collective farm, plant, MTS, district committee, and Kremlin? Producing incredible quantities and growing like hydra heads, instead of chopped off?

          Maybe pests did not rot and lose bread, massively slaughtered cattle, chopped fruit trees, etc., but a system in which people were not interested in the results of labor?

          When did they reach the yields of 1913? AT 1956 year? That's the whole story!
          Quote: Dalny V
          Tell this to the americans of the great depression, yeah.

          look at the report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR in 1956 and see that in the 30s the Americans ate THREE_FOUR times meat, milk, eggs than in the USSR.
          1. 27091965
            27091965 10 May 2020 11: 51 New
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            that in the 30s, Americans ate THREE_FOUR times more meat, milk, eggs than in the USSR.


            Well, yes, and the American "hunger march" of the thirties is all fiction and fairy tales.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 10 May 2020 11: 53 New
              -9
              Quote: 27091965i
              Well, yes, and the American "hunger march" of the thirties is all fiction and fairy tales.
              Reply

              well, yes, this is the report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR (and there are also Soviet documents) - "inventions and fairy tales" lol

              1. 27091965
                27091965 10 May 2020 13: 11 New
                +6
                Quote: Olgovich
                well, yes, this is the report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR (and there are also Soviet documents) - "inventions and fairy tales"


                You love this report only if you take the statistics of the Veterinary Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia on meat consumption in 1913, you will see that with a population of 165955,9 thousand people, the total meat consumption in Russia (in cities, villages, etc.) e.) on average, indicators for the entire population of Russia, per person per year, amounted to 0,7 pounds. This official report was published in 1915. I have an electronic copy of this report. People live not only in cities.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 10 May 2020 13: 22 New
                  -12
                  Quote: 27091965i
                  You love this report only if you take the statistics of the Veterinary Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia on meat consumption in 1913, you will see that with a population of 165955,9 thousand people, the total meat consumption in Russia (in cities, villages, etc.) e.) on average, indicators for the entire population of Russia, per person per year, amounted to 0,7 pounds. This official report was published in 1915. I have an electronic copy of this report. People live not only in cities.

                  1. you do not believe him, the SOVIET report?
                  belay
                  compare incomparable is how? , because meat in Russia and meat in the USSR are different things:

                  MEAT was considered in Russia, and in the USSR it was also boobs, psyki, udder, tripe, golovin, fat (with ....coefficient 1,4 lol ), chicken, etc.)

                  At first, everyone is brought into comparable conditions, then they are compared.

                  2. The agricultural census of 1916 revealed a large LACK of cattle and poultry in statistics, compared with REALITY-people preferred to keep silent ....

                  3. Do not forget about the years with swelling and DEATH 21,22,34,25,32,33,37,46,47 - this has not happened in Russia since 1892
                  1. 27091965
                    27091965 10 May 2020 21: 18 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    do you not believe him, SOVIET report?


                    I take it calmly, but if a secret report is published, then documents or links should be published, on the basis of which such conclusions were made in 1913. Moreover, this figure does not clearly reflect all sectors of society or a sample was made. At that time, there were many statistics from various departments.

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    MEAT was considered in Russia, and in the USSR it was also boobs, doggies, udders, entrails, golovin, fat (s .... coefficient 1,4), chicken, etc.)


                    I don’t know where you lived in the USSR and for what period of time your comment refers, but I didn’t meet the set you listed in your life in the USSR.



                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The agricultural census of 1916 revealed a large LACK of cattle and poultry in statistics, compared to REALITY-people preferred to keep silent ...


                    Could share a link. This is already interesting, because at the initial stage the CSB made a comparison precisely with 1916.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 10 May 2020 21: 38 New
                      -6
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      I take it calmly, but if a secret report is published, then documents or links should be published, on the basis of which such conclusions were made in 1913.

                      to whom - "should"? Why on earth?

                      For comparison, of course, everything was reduced to a single denominator, i.e. identical sets were taken into account in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR. otherwise what's the point?
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      I don’t know where you lived in the USSR and for what period of time your comment refers, but I didn’t meet the set you listed in your life in the USSR.

                      liver, kidneys, heart, tongue, intestines, golovin, udder-found on sale in everyday life everywhere. guts, for example, were used for sausage.

                      but this is not about that, but about what was considered meat in the USSR and what in Russia.
                      Quote: 27091965i
                      Could share a link. This is already interesting, because at the initial stage the CSB made a comparison precisely with 1916.

                      if you are interested in the source, then I can not help, because I read only the data from there, given in the tables of the authors.
                      1. 27091965
                        27091965 10 May 2020 22: 13 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        to whom - "should"? Why on earth?


                        I’ll try to explain. I collected material on Russia's readiness, in economic terms, for WWII. Using reports, reports and statistics of that time, I see a completely understandable picture of Russia's readiness. In flesh, how many products on average were consumed by a worker or peasant in a particular province, what was the export and import of food, how did it affect domestic consumption. Food prices and consumption, depending on income. The total number of livestock and how many were sent to slaughterhouses. In the report, I see only one figure. Therefore, the question arises, what was the purpose of the publication of this report without references and explanations? There is nothing secret at the moment in it. Show the USSR in an unsightly form?
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 May 2020 21: 51 New
                        -3
                        Quote: 27091965i
                        I’ll try to explain. .In the report, I see only one figure. Therefore, the question arises, what was the purpose of the publication of this report without references and explanations?

                        didn’t explain anything request

                        did you collect some data for something ....

                        and - what follows from this, for ... csu? belay Are you an example for him? CSB is dumber than you?request

                        Quote: 27091965i
                        Therefore, the question arises, what was the purpose of the publication of this report without references and explanations?


                        The report is not a monograph, it should not prove anything, the data of the CSU are a priori considered to be correct and on their basis an assessment of what has been done and the prospect and guidelines for the future are given.

                        The goal is presented in the preamble:
                        The level of per capita consumption of basic food and industrial goods at present in the USSR and the main capitalist countries in comparison with scientific norms of nutrition (order of August 15, 1955)

                        The Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR, with the participation of the Institute of Economics of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR and the Institute of Nutrition of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR, prepared and submits a report on the level of per capita consumption of basic food and industrial goods.

                        The report characterizes the level and change in the nutrition of the Soviet people, the nutrition of the population in the main capitalist countries, the nutrition level of the population of the USSR in comparison with scientific nutrition standards, the nutrition features of the agricultural and non-agricultural population and nutrition in the Union republics, the level and dynamics of consumption of basic industrial goods. etc.

                        explanations-chewing-sea.
                        everything is written
                        Quote: 27091965i
                        There is nothing secret at the moment in it. Show the USSR in an unsightly form?

                        Today, what a secret. Today, even the worst famine in history is no secret.

                        there is no blackening at all. vice versa. trumpeting successes and minor shortcomings. True figures speak of something else ...

                        What are you. did not read the text?
                2. opus
                  opus 11 May 2020 19: 13 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  compare incomparable is how? , because meat in Russia and meat in the USSR are different things:

                  MEAT was considered in Russia, and in the USSR it was also boobs, doggies, udders, entrails, golovin, fat (s .... coefficient 1,4), chicken, etc.)

                  more than one denominator (slaughter weight. those with boobs) /


                  and LPH Soviet statistics took into account, this is about 25-28% in the region of 3-4 million tons
                  The thing is different there:
                  - postscripts (then utruska / shrinkage spoilage) golem for premiums
                  - double run (sent and registered livestock to send "for supplementary feeding"). Thus, the cattle were "handed over" up to three times, and everything was summed up in statistics.
                  Our meat was small and about 2-3 times less than Americans.
                  And this is a very big difference
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 May 2020 22: 11 New
                    -4
                    Quote: opus
                    more than one denominator (slaughter weight. those with boobs) /

                    we discussed the number of the specific report of the CSU, where only one digit for graphs "meat and lard with poultry", without further specification
                    Quote: opus
                    and LPH Soviet statistics took into account, this is about 25-28% in the region of 3-4 million tons

                    Of course, took into account. this is not in dispute
                    Quote: opus
                    The thing is different there:
                    - postscripts (then utruska / shrinkage spoilage) golem for premiums
                    - double run (sent and registered livestock to send "for supplementary feeding"). Thus, the cattle were "handed over" up to three times, and everything was summed up in statistics.


                    about. This is a separate song. here you can write whole volumes.

                    The fact is that .as you rightly noted:

                    Quote: opus
                    Our meat was small and about 2-3 times less than Americans.
                    And this is a very big difference

                    and not only meat, but also milk, eggs, etc., and not 2-3 times, but 3-4-5 times! the Secretary General himself admitted this: https://mai.ru/upload/iblock/c43/osobennosti-ekonomicheskoy-politiki-sovetskogo-gosudarstva-v-seredine-khkh-v..pdf

                    Moreover, meat, milk, etc., to eat, as in 1913, our man could only after 40 years, and then only on paper
                    1. opus
                      opus 12 May 2020 12: 37 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      we discussed the figure of a specific CSU report,

                      Well, I then answered AT ALL (USSR statistics)


                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In Russia considered meat, in the USSR it and boobs, pski, udder, entrails, golovin, fat (s .... coefficient 1,4), chicken, etc.)
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 12 May 2020 14: 03 New
                      -3
                      Quote: opus
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      we discussed the figure of a specific CSU report,

                      Well, I then answered AT ALL (USSR statistics)

                      all meat in the Report and reduced to one the figure where they entered and
                      Quote: opus
                      boobs, dogs, udder, entrails, golovin, fat (s .... coefficient 1,4), chicken, etc.)
    2. Slavs
      Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 07 New
      +8
      Shpakovsky's aggravation ... May 9 .. Not his holiday.
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 11: 43 New
        +2
        People of genius discuss theories. Mediocre people discuss events. Silly people discuss people!
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 10 May 2020 18: 30 New
          +3
          Yes, we come across your theories in each article .... You are there about people and events ... 20% you are ours ...
  2. your1970
    your1970 11 May 2020 18: 51 New
    -1
    Quote: Olgovich
    In what other mode were there so many pests?
    - "I took part in giving bribes to employees of the power plant for hiding defects in equipment supplied by Metropolitan Vickers ... but they say there was no corruption in the USSR ...
  • Far B
    Far B 10 May 2020 05: 21 New
    13
    In short, it becomes clear from the author’s caustic comments that from 1934 to 12037, everything was very bad in the Land of Soviets: they were fighting with someone and something, but they couldn’t take it away, they shot and killed members and candidates ... In general, Shpakovsky in his repertoire. It’s just not clear how the Soviet economy (including in agriculture) grew at an unprecedented rate during these same years, if all these publications did not lead to anything.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 10 May 2020 05: 35 New
      20
      and now, it would be nice for V. Shpakovsky to look out the window ... yes, such corruption and theft, the most malicious "pests" of the 30s of the last century would be envious ...
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 07: 22 New
        -1
        Quote: Dead Day
        and now, it would be nice for V. Shpakovsky to look out the window ... yes, such corruption and theft, the most malicious "pests" of the 30s of the last century would be envious ...

        I have already written to you about the fact that old age has silvered only the outside, without turning what is inside into silver. It is not difficult to understand that the country was poorer and less stolen. How much less? There are documents about this. And where did people start with? The process was developing. Here is just about the "beginning of the process".
        1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
          Boris ⁣ Shaver 10 May 2020 08: 18 New
          19
          Quote: kalibr
          And where did people start with? The process was developing. Here is just about the "beginning of the process".

          I am afraid that the beginning of the process is lost for centuries. I think it began even long before Aleksashka Menshikov, Biron and Plato Zubov. Surely, even during the construction of the Tower of Babel, someone worked hard, and someone warmed his hands.
        2. Yury Siritsky
          Yury Siritsky 10 May 2020 12: 20 New
          0
          Well, if you're so intelligent, then yes.
    2. strannik1985
      strannik1985 10 May 2020 07: 13 New
      +8
      In general, Shpakovsky in his repertoire.

      Normal distortion of information. By 1934, there were more than 200 thousand state and collective farms in the USSR, plus ~ 1500 industrial enterprises in the first five-year period. Even if you do not go into the details of conflicts in the countryside, a huge shortage of personnel in the country is obvious, with all the consequences.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 May 2020 07: 27 New
        -19
        Quote: strannik1985
        Normal distortion of information. By 1934 in the USSR there were over 200 thousand state farms

        And several million dead starvation.
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 10 May 2020 07: 40 New
          +6
          And several million starvation dead

          Only those who do nothing are not mistaken.
          1. kalibr
            10 May 2020 07: 50 New
            -2
            That is, such terrible consequences of mistakes are normal for you? It is even hard to imagine a more cannibalistic morality. This is not about chips ... about people!
            1. strannik1985
              strannik1985 10 May 2020 08: 12 New
              +2
              This is not about chips ... about people!

              No. In the sense? Those who receive bread on cards - not people?
              1. kalibr
                10 May 2020 08: 47 New
                -1
                And several million starvation dead
                Only those who do nothing are not mistaken.
                1. chenia
                  chenia 10 May 2020 10: 33 New
                  10
                  Quote: kalibr
                  And several million starvation dead


                  During the period of liberalism (1991-2020) for 30 years without wars and upheavals, Ukraine lost 1/3 of the population, with the economy completely collapsing .. But capitalism is even more bloodthirsty.
            2. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 09: 34 New
              +4
              Quote: strannik1985
              Only those who do nothing are not mistaken.

              Quote: kalibr

              That is, such terrible consequences of mistakes are normal for you? It is even hard to imagine a more cannibalistic morality. This is not about chips ... about people!

              Wanderer 1985, the point here is not only in mistakes and not only in sabotage, which also happened, there are other reasons for the famine of 32-33, which "historians" such as Shpakovsky and the commentator Olgovich are not interested in. Because they are afraid to find out the truth, which will refute their myth about the "bloody and terrible" Soviet power.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 May 2020 10: 10 New
                -10
                Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                Wanderer 1985, the point here is not only in mistakes and not only in sabotage, which also happened, there are other reasons for the famine of 32-33, which "historians" such as Shpakovsky and the commentator Olgovich are not interested in.

                and you bring detailed, detailed analysis report the causes of MULTIMILLION hungry MORTALITY, performed Soviet power honestly, in a bolshetsitsky, openly, without discounts and equivocation in hot pursuit on Congress of Soviets. VKPB, trade unions. And there will be no "speculation"! yes and?

                What? Do you .... have none? belay But what about ... PEOPLE?
                for whom did you hold them, that they had no right to know the truth, discuss, and decide with the culprits?
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 10: 34 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  and you give a detailed, detailed analysis of the report of the reasons

                  For you? Is this a joke? Do I look like Sisyphus?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 May 2020 10: 40 New
                    -7
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    For you? Is this a joke? Do I look like Sisyphus?

                    You do not understand RUSSIAN?

                    You are invited to submit a report already completed by the Soviets with the report:
                    give a detailed, detailed analysis report reasons for MULTI-MILLION hungry MORTALITY, carried out by the Soviet government honestly, most of the time, openly, without discounts and equivocations in hot pursuit at the Congress of Soviets. vkpbe, trade unions. And there will be no "speculation"


                    Or is this an insignificant question for the whole Central Committee, congress, CSC, etc.? The question of insemination and mares is a question, and the death of millions is nonsense. irrelevant?

                    I repeat the question: for whom did you keep people, that they did not have the right to know the truth, discuss, and decide with the culprits?
                2. strannik1985
                  strannik1985 10 May 2020 13: 28 New
                  +2
                  What? Do you .... have none?

                  No, they planted and fired, but somehow they did not attend to the reports. Do you compare with any period in the history of Russia?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 May 2020 13: 41 New
                    -5
                    Quote: strannik1985
                    No, they planted, fired, but somehow did not attend to the reports

                    no one was imprisoned, not fired - for several million deaths - give orders, wordings, dates. There are no such ? No.
                    Quote: strannik1985
                    but reports somehow did not bother


                    Yeah, there is a resolution on the working CATTLE of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the party, but somehow it did not work out about the causes of the death of millions of PEOPLE, a lack of time, yes ...
                    1. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 10 May 2020 13: 52 New
                      +4
                      no one was imprisoned

                      Postyshev, Kosior and Chubar were shot on February 26, 1939.
                      Yeah, about working cattle

                      Why lie? Are there not enough pathetics?
                      About sowing in Ukraine. 58/1 from 25.V.1932; About the importation of bread from Persia, item 47 of 1.V.1932; About the importation of bread to Ukraine p. 61/15 from 5.Vl.1932; On the expenditure of wheat p. 64/37 of 23.X.1932, etc.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 May 2020 14: 01 New
                        -1
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Postyshev, Kosior and Chubar were shot on February 26, 1939.

                        Shot like SPIES, DIVERSANTS and TRADERS. Where is the punishment for ... hunger, from which SIX years have passed!

                        Provide sentences, orders and dates of punishment for this!
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        To liewhy? Are there not enough pathetics?
                        About sowing in Ukraine. 58/1 from 25.V.1932; About the importation of bread from Persia, item 47 of 1.V.1932; About the importation of bread to Ukraine p. 61/15 from 5.Vl.1932; On the expenditure of wheat p. 64/37 of 23.X.1932, etc.


                        belay Give the Decisions of the Central Committee Bureau on the investigation of the causes of mass starvation of 32,33gg, and at the same time, 24,24,37,46,47, XNUMXgg with digits, surnames, examinations, etc.

                        But the state of working cattle is!

                        Once again I ask, do dead people deserve less attention than cattle?
                      2. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 10 May 2020 14: 36 New
                        +3
                        Shot like SPIES

                        And for the famine, EMNIP Kosioru was charged with creating a Polish espionage organization and organizing hunger as well.
                        But about the state of working cattle

                        Oil is oil. Why a separate decree if the death of people is already taking place along the line of the OGPU / NKVD?
                        And yes, do you have remote reasoning, without comparison by period?
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 May 2020 14: 46 New
                        -4
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        And for the famine, EMNIP Kosioru was charged with creating a Polish espionage organization and organizing hunger as well.

                        Polish spy is everything!
                        Justified by the way
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Oil is oil. Why a separate decree if the death of people is already taking place along the line of the OGPU / NKVD?


                        those. and there’s nothing to talk about. belay request no words ...

                        People of the country, what the hell shouldn't know about the disaster? What right the top had the right to remain silent, who gave them such a right, show me! and at the same time continuously lie about wealthy peasants?

                        And yes, the country did not know such a catastrophe.
                      4. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 10 May 2020 16: 02 New
                        +2
                        Polish spy is everything!

                        No, he was accused of participating in the "POV", and her (organization) was accused of preparing an uprising, incl. through organizing hunger.
                        those. and there’s nothing to talk about

                        They talked about pests without hesitation, they wrote about hunger in the newspapers.
                        And yes, such a disaster

                        So it depends on the scale, for smaller (by how much?) Events a report is not required?
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 May 2020 18: 51 New
                        -7
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        No, he was accused of participating in the "POV", and her (organization) was accused of preparing an uprising, incl. through organizing hunger.

                        he was charged espionage. Show where in his sentence, the organization of hunger.
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        They talked about pests without hesitation, newspapers wrote about hunger.

                        Lying. Give newspapers with village names, surnames and number of victims and facts of mass cannibalism
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        So it depends on the scale, for smaller (by how much?) Events a report is not required?

                        about one thing. Kirov, how much stink was there?

                        And the deceased Russian peasant Ivanov, his deceased wife and children, do not deserve a thorough investigation, show trials with executions of the perpetrators of their deaths?

                        Deserve - more Kirov who lived like cheese in butter

                        And then MILLIONS of tragically, untimely dead innocent people - and .... do not even deserve mention anywhere and by anyone ?! as there were none ...
                        Don't deserve it? Not Kirov, right?

                        They made a mistake, dug up the dead, forgot and - forward to success, not looking back?

                        In PEOPLE, this is not customary.
        2. BAI
          BAI 10 May 2020 21: 37 New
          +2
          and you give a detailed, detailed analysis of the report of the causes of the MULTIVILLION of hungry MORTALITY, performed by the Soviet government honestly, in Bolsheviks,

          1. The peasants did not want to work on collective farms, which led to a sharp reduction in the harvest - the bread rotted in the fields not collected, people simply did not collect it. Stocks plummeted.
          2. Cattle were slaughtered for meat so as not to be transferred to collective farms. Ukraine was especially different. The main draft force there is the oxen, not the horse. Almost completely killed for meat. Can anyone give an example where oxen appear in films, fiction, documents in the 30s about Ukraine? They are not here! All were killed. Which led to a sharp reduction in sown area.
          3. The drought. Everything has already been discussed. A sharp drop in collection from the expected.
          4. Burst of "epidemics". Black mold and incredibly prolific mice - 30% of the harvested crop was destroyed. Somehow they are silent about this.
          We got ideal conditions for hunger. And this is not only the fault of the authorities.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 May 2020 06: 28 New
            -5
            Quote: BAI
            1. The peasants did not want to work on collective farms, which led to a sharp reduction in the harvest - the bread rotted in the fields not collected, people simply did not collect it.

            What kind of tourist would want to work unknown for what? Rather, "zamo" is practically free.

            By the way. and HOW was this grain stored, transported? Also wild losses: "not mine, not sorry"
            Quote: BAI
            2. Cattle were slaughtered for meat so as not to be transferred to collective farms. Ukraine was especially different. The main draft force there is the oxen, not the horse. Almost completely killed for meat. Can anyone give an example where in the films,

            Interrupted. and what was left to do ?.
            And the authorities are guilty, putting them in such hopeless conditions that they were forced to save at least something.
            Quote: BAI
            3. The drought. Everything has already been discussed. A sharp drop in collection from the expected.

            Stalin: "The harvest of 1932 is NOT WORSE than the harvest of 1931" Do not believe ... HIM? belay
            Quote: BAI
            4. Burst of "epidemics". Black mold and incredibly prolific mice - 30% of the harvested crop was destroyed. Somehow they are silent about this.

            30% gobbled up .... mice? I have not heard such garbage lol
            Quote: BAI
            We got ideal conditions for hunger. And this is not only the fault of the authorities.


            Yes, a "unique" year in human history. "never" was not like that, yeah fool

            I emphasize that NOBODY did not specifically organize the famine, it is unconditional.

            everything was done with the best intentions. to "get better".

            But when they do not know how to manage and do something, not understanding and not anticipating the consequences, such tragedies are obtained.

            And millions of victims were not rewarded with power, as a result of which they appeared, no mention, no word of sympathy, no condolences, no repentance, no memory. Like there never were them in this world ...
    3. Slavs
      Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 10 New
      11
      Quote: kalibr
      That is, such terrible consequences of mistakes are normal for you? It is even hard to imagine a more cannibalistic morality. This is not about chips ... about people!

      This is you about the consequences of the reforms of the 90s .. then - yes !! You're right ! Long live your idols - Yeltsin, Chubais, Gaidar !!
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 11: 39 New
        -3
        Quote: Slavs
        This is you about the consequences of the reforms of the 90s.

        And that someone died during the construction of the new Belomorsky Canal, slandered and dishonored? Someone's children were forced to abandon their parents, and someone was evicted to the fields of Kazakhstan?
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 10 May 2020 18: 34 New
          +8
          Quote: kalibr
          And that someone died

          Quote: kalibr
          forced to refuse

          Quote: kalibr
          someone was evicted

          Have you been bypassed by the 90s?
          And they evicted and deprived and killed ... And all with impunity ... A voucher is the most innocuous invention and useful .. But the Belomorkanal damned is useless, they put people in vain ... Good ...
      2. kalibr
        10 May 2020 11: 41 New
        -6
        Sergei. Here is the answer of one of yours. strannik1985 (vladimir) Today, 07:40
        Only those who do nothing are not mistaken.
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 10 May 2020 19: 52 New
          +8
          Citizen Shpakovsky, and what did you do in the period from 1992, well, even up to 98?
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 May 2020 09: 05 New
    -10
    Quote: strannik1985
    Not mistaken only those who do nothing.


    Those. the martyrdom of millions of people from starvation is just a common mistake (think, who doesn’t happen to you!) and .... calmly went further? belay

    And, excuse me, ANSWER for what you have done, eh ?! instead, a hypocritical LIE about "wealthy" peasants. and "successes! people - what was it. What has no right to know, appreciate and attract?"

    You would tell the country WHAT happened by "mistake" and see how much 0,000% you would gain in the national elections! Therefore, they were afraid to the point of paranoia of free speech and free elections.
    1. Slavs
      Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 11 New
      13
      Quote: Olgovich
      And, excuse me, ANSWER for what you have done, eh ?! instead, a hypocritical LIE about "secured

      That's right - all the leaders of the 90s to the answer !!
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 10 May 2020 11: 45 New
        +2
        Quote: Slavs
        That's right - all the leaders of the 90s to the answer !!

        What, in the 80s, leaders were significantly different in the list? And in the 70s? Don't stop halfway, everyone must be made to answer. Or is the party card of the CPSU an indulgence? If we learned to ask for mistakes in time, the country would not collapse from the decay of "leading and guiding".
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 10 May 2020 18: 43 New
          +6
          Quote: Hagen
          And what, in the 80s, the leaders differed significantly in the list? And in the 70s?

          Well then, it’s necessary to ask the tsar .. He spanked the empire. What is it ... With Peter the Great, how many people at the construction site of Peter laid ... All to the answer ...
          I explain - what started no longer in secret since August 91 should have been dismantled by progressive democrats ... There are also claims to them. I have.
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 10 May 2020 20: 09 New
            -7
            Quote: Slavs
            Well then, it’s necessary to ask the tsar .. He spanked the empire.

            And what, somewhere on VO there were living witnesses of those times and extol Nicholas? So far we are talking about a sort of confrontation between modern realists and pro-USSR Utopians. Or didn’t you taste the essence of the argument? laughing
            1. Slavs
              Slavs 11 May 2020 12: 56 New
              +3
              [quote = Hagen] Or didn’t you taste the essence of the dispute? [/ quote]
              You better not eat, but read the text of the comment .. I quote myself:
              [quote = Hagen] I explain - what started no longer in secret since August 91 should have been dismantled by the progressive Democrats ... There are also claims to them. I have. [/ Quote
              It was written for you .. Smoked, my dear? Are there living witnesses of the 90s on VO?
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 11 May 2020 13: 41 New
                +1
                Quote: Slavs
                I explain - what started no longer in secret since August 91 should have been dismantled by progressive democrats

                August 91st is not an independent phenomenon. This is a consequence of the defeat of the economy of a large country that has occurred since the late 70s and all 80s. Is it really not clear that the turbulence of the 90s was inevitable, but the economic crisis of the end of the USSR could have been completely prevented. In any case, the Kosygin reforms gave a chance to move forward, while the passive indecision of the Politburo of the stagnation of the early 80s created conditions under which the leaders of the 2nd echelon co-party began looking for ways of personal survival. So they degenerated into those "progressive democrats" whom you want to hold accountable. But they can only be dispossessed, transplanted, shot (and then with great difficulty and blood). But the main thing will not be, there will be no understanding of the reasons for the collapse of the Great State and the direction of preventive measures. And we, in my opinion, this is what we need today. Because we are sliding along the same trajectory as the late USSR.
              2. Slavs
                Slavs 11 May 2020 13: 59 New
                +3
                1985 Misha Gorbachev. Deterioration of the country's defense capability, rapprochement with Western "partners" (Misha was bought). Misha made his invaluable contribution, especially to the military-industrial complex and the Moscow region.
                Quote: Hagen
                as we roll along the same trajectory as the late USSR.

                Much deeper, because the present Russian Federation is very far from the USSR ...
              3. Hagen
                Hagen 11 May 2020 14: 06 New
                -1
                Quote: Slavs
                Misha made an invaluable contribution, especially to the military-industrial complex and the Moscow Region ..

                Well, let's put the traitor Misha in. And then what? Not Misha created that crisis. Misha received it as an inheritance and failed to dispose of it.
                Quote: Slavs
                the present RF is very far from the USSR ...

                Looking at what positions to consider ... I feel that you are turning the wrong gate ....
  • strannik1985
    strannik1985 10 May 2020 13: 41 New
    +2
    Those. the martyrdom of millions of people from hunger

    No from hunger, or rather, not only, for example, from massive and chronic ergot alkaloids. The Soviet government is to blame for the fact that the peasants hid the uncooked grain, and then consumed it as food, pickling a dozen varieties of poisonous fungi.
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 15: 25 New
      -2
      Quote: strannik1985
      The Soviet government is to blame for the fact that the peasants hid the grain

      Why did they hide it, huh? Probably played "hide and seek"?
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 10 May 2020 15: 51 New
        0
        Why did they hide him, huh?

        Because the grain is stolen.
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 15: 52 New
          -2
          Why did they steal it?
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 10 May 2020 15: 53 New
            0
            Because on the collective farm they halt.
            1. kalibr
              10 May 2020 15: 54 New
              -3
              Why hacked? They worked for themselves? Is it their nature that is spoiled?
            2. strannik1985
              strannik1985 10 May 2020 16: 03 New
              +1
              I don’t know, maybe they thought it was easier to steal from the field?
            3. kalibr
              10 May 2020 18: 34 New
              -6
              Worked for yourself and stole from the field? The hunger was! Constantly! Read the reports of the head of the NKVD in the Penza RK VKP (b). Here was an article about this. Go to the profile and look ...
            4. strannik1985
              strannik1985 10 May 2020 23: 05 New
              +5
              Worked for yourself and stole from the field?

              NKVD documents on embezzlement for 1932 sea. For instance:
              http://istmat.info/node/56179
              Those. some stole dozens of tons (the Kulikovsky farm of the Pavlovsky district, the Budenny collective farm - 1910 t. grain - 191 tons + 100 t. barley, i.e. another 10 tons of grain, the village of Grimm, a group of 19 people cut 98 tons of grain from the field ), while others did not have enough for food.
            5. kalibr
              11 May 2020 08: 25 New
              -6
              That's about it. No luck commies with the people! Julie!
            6. strannik1985
              strannik1985 11 May 2020 13: 54 New
              +1
              Bad luck

              The people are normal, the mentality is not taken into account.
  • AnderS
    AnderS 10 May 2020 23: 33 New
    +6
    the martyrdom of millions of people from starvation is just a common mistake

    Something is not visible your indignant cries about
    the martyrdom of millions of people

    from the regular famine that happened in tsarist Russia with an interval of 4-5 years, and in each episode of which more people perished than during the famine of the first half of the 30s. Judging by your position, you have no complaints about the tsarist government for regular hunger, but against the Soviet government, for a single hunger of 30, you are writing in boiling water out of indignation. Or under the royal regime
    the martyrdom of millions of people

    was not so martyred?
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 May 2020 13: 53 New
    -3
    Quote: strannik1985
    And several million starvation dead

    Only those who do nothing are not mistaken.

    When in a former agrarian country people are dying of hunger, this is an indicator of ineffective management.
    1. AnderS
      AnderS 10 May 2020 23: 37 New
      +6
      When in a former agrarian country people are dying of hunger, this is an indicator of ineffective management.

      Seriously?
      Then in tsarist Russia, which was not a former, but a real agricultural country, when hunger occurred at intervals of 4-5 years, and people died in the millions, the management efficiency was simply outrageous, in your opinion?
      But in the Soviet Union, when there was one single period of famine caused by drought and intensified by epidemics of typhoid and malaria, if sclerosis does not change me, over 70 years of Soviet power, is it immediately "ineffective management"?
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 11 May 2020 00: 15 New
        -2
        lol And who said that tsarist Russia was an effective state?
        Another thing is that it never presented itself as a "state of workers and PEASANTS", and the ruling hereditary aristocracy, whose whims, in fact, the country served, never suffered from malnutrition, as well as from remorse hi
        1. AnderS
          AnderS 11 May 2020 00: 22 New
          +4
          and the ruling hereditary aristocracy, whose whims, in fact, the country served, never suffered from malnutrition, nor from remorse hi

          But this very aristocracy did not seem to be punished by the tsarist government, for all its tricks? And from the same newspapers, and from history as a whole, we see that the Soviet government, which not only positioned itself as workers and peasants, but it just left these same workers and peasants, and so, it still fought with those who harmed these very workers and peasants. Because if she hadn’t fought, she would probably not have won even in the civil war ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 11 May 2020 00: 40 New
            -5
            Who was punished for the famine under Soviet rule? Several "kulaks and pests on the ground" or those who continued to drive grain abroad in poor harvests, just like under the tsarist regime?
            1. AnderS
              AnderS 12 May 2020 14: 27 New
              +1
              who continued to drive grain overseas into crop failure, just like under royal authority?

              Stop lying, during the famine of the 30s, the supply of bread abroad was suspended
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 12 May 2020 14: 29 New
                -2
                laughing
                Yeah. And where did he come from?
              2. AnderS
                AnderS 14 May 2020 13: 14 New
                +1
                Yeah. And where did he come from?

                Who arose? Or are you to yourself? Then you probably don’t know what to say to yourself in the third person singular is a sign of a mental illness?
              3. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 May 2020 13: 38 New
                -2
                Dumb you so lol - I'm talking about hunger
  • Driver d
    Driver d 10 May 2020 12: 28 New
    -3
    In Ukraine alone, according to various estimates, from 3 to 7 million people died of starvation in 1932-33.
    In the villages of Ukraine, in almost every house there were victims of hunger.
    And it was Soviet power that was to blame for it, the very Ukrainians who occupied party posts, who, for the sake of their party career, overestimated the plans for procurement, regardless of reality.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 12: 38 New
      +7
      Quote: Driver D
      In Ukraine alone, according to various estimates, from 3 to 7 million people died of starvation in 1932-33.

      And in the USA, how much?
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 12: 57 New
        -1
        No matter how many died in the United States, it does not matter. There was a "beastly grin of capitalism", but here ... "the state of the dictatorship of the proletariat."
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 May 2020 13: 07 New
        -8
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        And in the USA, how much?

        .1. And here ... the Americans in the rotting damn cap. America in comparison with ... "people's" state ?. belay

        2. Americans were surprised to learn that they "died out en masse" in the 30s, just 12 years ago from the "work" of a certain Borisov.

        Prior to this, NONE even a Soviet scientist, a newspaperman, an agitator, a diplomat - such a BREAD did not dare to invent (so as not to laugh lol )
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 13: 23 New
          +7
          Quote: kalibr
          There was a "beastly grin of capitalism", but here ... "the state of the dictatorship of the proletariat."

          Quote: Olgovich
          1. And here ... the Americans are in a rotting damn cap. America in comparison with ... "people's" state ?.

          Ek in unison sang. laughing Both of them must have studied Stalin's article "Dizzy with Success."
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 10 May 2020 17: 23 New
            +1
            Hello Volodya! hi
            "Horses mingled in a heap, people and volleys of thousands of guns merged into a drawn-out howl ..." laughing
            And the hunt for you ... smile
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 17: 30 New
              +4
              Quote: Sea Cat
              And the hunt for you ...

              Yes, there is nothing to do, the head is cracking, I rest before the righteous labors. laughing Although infa has already slipped that tomorrow Putin will consider the extension of karanavirus isolation. wink
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 10 May 2020 18: 08 New
                +1
                His job is to consider.
                "Aaaa ... Ti smatri - do not smatri, all around the sea, but there is water in it!" (S. x / f "Blue Arrow")
        2. +5
          +5 10 May 2020 14: 17 New
          +2
          And what is nonsense? The author applied the method of counting the billions of victims of Stalin to the Great Depression ... I brush it turned out a great example of manipulation .... but Russophobes earnestly believe in billions, and immediately bought up bullshit ..
    2. +5
      +5 10 May 2020 14: 24 New
      +2
      Well, the sturgeon must be cut back of course ... But what is the scale, above the famine of 1891-92? Or famine in the Volga region in the 20s? The lowest level of agricultural production is the reason. In RI, every 2 years, hunger was here and there ..
      And it’s not the harvesting plans, the generous Ukrainians hid grain from the collective farm in the pits, and then in the spring they began to eat it, and it was infected with rye and ergot ... The surge in mortality in May
    3. AnderS
      AnderS 10 May 2020 23: 39 New
      +4
      from 3 to 7 million people who died of starvation in 1932-33.
      In the villages of Ukraine, in almost every house there were victims of hunger.

      Stop lying. Even according to the most overstated estimates, the excess of natural mortality for that period does not exceed 2,5 million people throughout the Union.
  • AnderS
    AnderS 10 May 2020 23: 26 New
    +5
    And several million dead starvation.

    Enough here already about hunger. I do not deny it would be hunger, but the famine was caused by drought, and not by the actions of the authorities or the climate, did the bloody Bolsheviks rule the way you think? In addition, epidemics of diseases, such as typhoid, malaria, and something else, were superimposed on hunger, I don’t remember all unfortunately ... So enough to carry nonsense here about the evil Bolsheviks who organized the famine ... There were either 1,5 deaths from all of the above factors , 2,5, or XNUMX million, now I do not remember how much. If you are really interested in the causes of high mortality and the struggle of the authorities against hunger and epidemics, delve into the Internet, frankly, I'm too lazy to provide any links here ...
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 09: 28 New
    10
    Quote: strannik1985
    Normal distortion of information.

    This is what the "historian" Shpakovsky does in all his opuses.
  • kalibr
    10 May 2020 07: 27 New
    -4
    Quote: Dalny V
    the Soviet economy (including in agriculture) grew at an unprecedented rate

    What is more important to you? The process or outcome?
    1. Far B
      Far B 10 May 2020 07: 46 New
      13
      I do not quite understand the question. The result is achieved by the process - no?
      It’s interesting, if the newspaper Pravda published only toasts in honor of the party and government, as well as laudatory odes to current achievements, would that suit you better? I doubt your comments would have been even more caustic. And what you mentioned in the photographs is normal for journalism when problems that are identified are reported honestly and openly. Well, it was not possible to root out the problems to the end. So they will never and nowhere be eradicated to the end. I, frankly, did not understand the meaning of this publication of yours at all. Did you want to joke about the Union again? But even that didn't work out in the end. Sadness.
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 08: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Dalny V
        I frankly did not understand the meaning of this publication of yours at all.

        And no one jokes over the Union. VO readers are given information from the newspaper. Which 99% would never have read otherwise. And it shows how difficult it was to build a "society of justice" and that its outcome was predetermined.
        But the "sadness" did not work out. It would be “sadness” if - just imagine - this material came out, and we would still live in the USSR. And hence the question: what is more important than the process or the outcome? Yes, it grew. And it all ended ... in 1991. The bottom line! Explained easily?
        1. Far B
          Far B 10 May 2020 08: 19 New
          +9
          And it all ended ... 1991. The result!
          Well you give! Where is 1934 and where is 1991? Between them are decades with a mass of events, different rulers who changed the course of the country, etc., and so on. With the same success, you can emboss a photo selection of articles from the times of Catherine II and finish with your own cherry on the cake: "And it all ended ... in 1917. The result!"
          1. kalibr
            10 May 2020 08: 39 New
            -2
            It’s bad that you, Mikhail, don’t understand this. This is not about events, but about the system of economic and social attitudes in society.
            Under tsarism there was one system ... poorly arranged. And it ended 17 years. All right! But the system that came to replace him too ... was not too perfect and ended with the 91st. Got it now?
            1. demo
              demo 10 May 2020 09: 16 New
              +9
              Dear Author.
              Soviet Russia, formed on the ruins of the Russian Empire, began to build a completely new kind of state.
              And to carry out such a grand transformation, the country needed competent, ideological, convinced people.
              And where could they be taken?
              From which country could experts be invited?
              The answer is obvious - there is no such country and there are no such specialists.
              Those. the country, its leadership had to work with the "material" that was.
              And what was the essence of this “material” - this can be seen in the newspaper articles that you helpfully provided.

              I believe that judging by how many violations and crimes are committed in the name of lofty goals is not entirely correct.
              The great French revolution, with its slogans - equality, freedom, brotherhood led to the death of millions of Frenchmen. First, the aristocracy, then the nobility, then the wealthy rentier and the bourgeoisie, and then the actual many revolutionaries. Running the flywheel of terror.
              And then came the figure of Napoleon, who unleashed wars throughout Europe.
              And this war has reached Russia.
              Millions of lives, devastated agriculture, destroyed industrial and commercial ties.
              Those. all the delights of war.

              But today, the slogans of the revolution have not lost their pristine relevance?
              No.
              Today, Bonaparte is not considered as a clearly gloomy and bloodthirsty genius?
              No.
              Today, the French are meaningfully approaching both their history and their historical leaders.
              And to the results of the activity that was organized.

              Sweeping, without taking into account subsequent positive developments, considering only the negative of our history is not a scientific approach.
              This is purely journalistic.
              And propaganda.
              1. Slavs
                Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 31 New
                12
                Quote: demo
                This is purely journalistic.
                And propaganda.

                That's right. Who reads Comrade Shpakovsky - already in the know ..
                Here in France everything was right and civilized .. For Europe .. And the red commissars and bloody gebnya is what we must obey the world ...
                Thank you for the detailed comment.
              2. kalibr
                10 May 2020 10: 55 New
                0
                Quote: demo
                Sweeping, without taking into account subsequent positive developments, considering only the negative of our history is not a scientific approach.

                That is, you do not need an article, but a monograph in which you need to squeeze everything? I do not know how to write articles in which "everything". Write your own material so I can learn from it.
                1. demo
                  demo 10 May 2020 13: 49 New
                  +5
                  Earlier, as I have been on the site for 6 years, the articles that I submitted were published.
                  But, from a certain point in time, articles are not accepted for publication.
                  Motivation - you are not on staff!
                  So, thank you.
                  I can neither help you nor satisfy your desire.
                  1. kalibr
                    10 May 2020 15: 28 New
                    -5
                    So the articles were bad. Would be good - would be invited to the staff!
              3. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 10 May 2020 11: 01 New
                +3
                Well, what else can the propagandist of Marxism-Leninism, who learned this craft in Brezhnev’s time, write?
                1. kalibr
                  10 May 2020 11: 56 New
                  +1
                  Sergey, you also published material here. One, really. Maybe you will set an example and your second material will just be what yours will suit, eh? Give it a try? Everyone will be happy!
                  1. Aviator_
                    Aviator_ 10 May 2020 12: 03 New
                    +4
                    I sent the second material, which was rejected without explanation. Later, a similar one appeared, so to speak, based on motives. After that, the desire to publish something here disappeared.
                    1. kalibr
                      10 May 2020 12: 09 New
                      +2
                      Well, what are two materials, Sergey? Because of such trifles, it is impossible to stop the work that you successfully started.
                    2. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 10 May 2020 14: 18 New
                      +3
                      Maybe I’ll also send it. This is not my main job, but a free hobby.
                    3. kalibr
                      10 May 2020 15: 30 New
                      +1
                      Then it should be even better. Any educated and knowledgeable person can write an interesting and sensible article; it is interesting to talk about what he knows well. It is hard to do this every day.
          2. kalibr
            10 May 2020 11: 09 New
            0
            By your explanations that the "material" was bad, you remind me of Marshal Kulik. “Explaining later his actions in the Crimea, Kulik blamed the demoralization and non-combat capability of the army units exhausted by continuous fighting:“ I had nothing to defend Kerch with. There was a frayed muggle there - just a gang. The army became a gang! They drank, women were raped. How could I have with such an army I arrived too late - it was impossible to save the situation. ”All the failures of the system are always to blame ... the masses!
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 May 2020 09: 29 New
        +5
        emboss a photo compilation of statues from the time of Catherine II
        Squeezed. Indirectly. Griboedov.
    2. Slavs
      Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 16 New
      12
      Quote: kalibr
      Readers are given information from the newspaper. Which 99% would never have otherwise read

      With your comments, directing the course of thoughts in the right direction ...) Here he is, master of social engineering)
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 10: 33 New
        +8
        Quote: Slavs
        Here he is, a master of social engineering)

        And the author of textbooks on PR.
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 38 New
          +9
          Yes, I know. The comrade has written a lot. And he writes science fiction "If Hitler took Moscow" He writes a lot of things .. This is his bread .. He writes in a trend ...
          And on PR, useful articles help weevils in flour to look for ...
          1. cost
            cost 10 May 2020 15: 28 New
            +1
            help weevils in flour search ...

            mammoths do not help to search? laughing
            Listen to the villager. Weevils are a purely garden pest. It is useless to seek him and his larvae in flour and cereals yes There they parasitize - a mucoeater, he is also a mealworm, a bread grinder, and larvae of food moths
            © Source: https://srazuchisto.com/vrediteli/zhuchki-v-muke-i-krupax.html
            1. Slavs
              Slavs 10 May 2020 18: 22 New
              +4
              Thanks for the clarification ...) We are here just about pests ...
      2. kalibr
        10 May 2020 11: 12 New
        -2
        Quote: Slavs
        With your comments, directing the course of thoughts in the right direction ...)

        Compare the volume of comments to the text and the volume of the text itself ... Incomparable. And if even such a small thing, as you think, "directs" the course of thinking ... This is an indicator ... And in this case it is not my fault that people do not have brains, but polystyrene, and even of mediocre quality.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 12: 42 New
          +5
          Quote: kalibr
          And even if such a small thing, as you think, "directs" the course of thinking ... This is an indicator ... And in this case it is not my fault that people have not brains, but polystyrene

          Yeah, who agrees with you, the one who criticizes the one who has the same foam.
  • Slavs
    Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 14 New
    +7
    Quote: Dalny V
    Frankly, I did not understand the meaning of this publication. Would you like to beat the Union again?

    To denigrate in the eyes of those who do not remember the Union, the past of our country, who would have thought that it was better than now ... They have long had a circle of interest here ..
    1. Walrus fang
      Walrus fang 10 May 2020 10: 21 New
      +4
      Quote: Slavs
      Quote: Dalny V
      Frankly, I did not understand the meaning of this publication. Would you like to beat the Union again?

      To denigrate in the eyes of those who do not remember the Union, the past of our country, who would have thought that it was better than now ... They have long had a circle of interest here ..

      As long as at least one person born in the USSR who knows how to compare and analyze is alive, this naughty man will not be able to do it ..
      And here it’s not a circle anymore, like five years ago, but whole gangs have formed and throw themselves in a crowd to kick and scribble complaints .. hi
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 May 2020 14: 10 New
        -1
        Quote: Walrus Fang

        To denigrate in the eyes of those who do not remember the Union, the past of our country, who would have thought that it was better than now ... They have long had a circle of interest here ..
        ------------------
        As long as at least one person born in the USSR who knows how to compare and analyze is alive, this naughty man will not be able to keep up ... hi

        Well, I was born in the USSR. It was better - school education and the presence of free circles for children in almost any direction - from aircraft modeling to paleontology and sports sections. And higher education in physics and mathematics.
        What was controversial? Providing any drunk with a place of work, despite productivity and skill level.
        What was worse? Yes, almost everything else.
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 12 May 2020 10: 45 New
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          What was worse? Yes, almost everything else.

          Jeans were missing? ...
          And dear Krasnodar, from what year did you live abroad?
          As far as I remember, you took the oath in another state ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 12 May 2020 11: 11 New
            -2
            That's right - from 1991 to 2016
            And in the 91st in Israel, I realized what I was missing:
            Normal food quality
            Norimal medicine
            Non-boorish attitude towards people
            1. Slavs
              Slavs 12 May 2020 11: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Normal food quality
              Norimal medicine
              Non-boorish attitude towards people

              Strange .. But I miss this now ...
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 12 May 2020 12: 22 New
                -2
                laughing
                Bad USSR remember
                In the 91st everything was seen very strikingly
                1. Slavs
                  Slavs 12 May 2020 12: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Bad USSR remember

                  No .. Everything is fine with memory ..))
                2. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 12 May 2020 13: 07 New
                  -3
                  Then I remind you of abdominal operations of Soviet medicine with a scar of an appropriate scale, an excellent medication that caused people to die, rudeness of state-owned shops sellers, hard crumpled chewing gum with fat called cervelat, scarce, herbicidal and pesticidal vegetables and fruits, a trip to the dentist as for interrogation with an addiction in the Gestapo, the blue Soviet hens (supposedly naiural), who died most likely with their own death and stink - from garbage chutes in houses, from dairy departments of food stores, so people cheap cologne. My childhood memories.
  • Hagen
    Hagen 10 May 2020 11: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Dalny V
    It’s interesting if the newspaper Pravda published only toasts in honor of the party and government

    Did someone raise substantive questions for the party and government? They put the director of the bathhouse or the barrage. offices - and this is criticism,
    Quote: Dalny V
    when problems are reported honestly and openly.

    Quit carrying nonsense. The correct question was why the congress did not analyze the situation with the famine 32-33? Did you hide behind criticism of those who "made their way" into one of the thousands of MTS? Laughter on a stick ...
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 May 2020 13: 50 New
      -1
      Quote: Hagen
      The correct question was why the congress did not analyze the situation with the famine 32-33? Did you hide behind criticism of those who "made their way" into one of the thousands of MTS? Laughter on a stick ...

      specially spent time and read ALL transcripts of speeches at this congress: NO WORD, NO HINT about the tragedy ......

      Horror!

      NOT ONE decent person ....
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 09: 42 New
    +8
    [quote = Dalniy V] the Soviet economy (including agriculture) grew at an unprecedented rate [/ quote]
    [quote = kalibr] What is more important to you? Process or summary? [/ Quote]
    And why are you not happy with the result? The second economy of the world, victory in the Second World War, space, etc., etc., etc.
    And where is Russia today? Where is the economy? And this is with a 12-hour working day for workers. My daughter works 12 hours a day and seven days a week. I do not like? Nobody keeps you here! "This is the answer. But - Shpakovsky -" This is not about chips ... about people! [/ Quote]
    How do you answer, "historian"?
  • Boris ⁣ Shaver
    Boris ⁣ Shaver 10 May 2020 07: 41 New
    +5
    Quote: Dalny V
    1934 to 12037 in the Land of Soviets

    Guys, I woke up in the future today! I am from 2020! And I dreamed that the Country of Soviets was about 30 years old. In your 12037 for such dreams, an hour, do not shoot?
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 May 2020 10: 27 New
    -10
    Quote: Dalny V
    the same years, the Soviet economy (including in agriculture) grew at an unprecedented rate

    This is how it is necessary to dislike the history of YOUR country in order to declare this! request

    by the level of consumption of food, clothing, housing, citizens of the USSR SSR only DETECTED 1913 in almost forty years!
    We are already silent about 1937, the year of "built" socialism, marked by massive swelling and DEATH from hunger (see NKVD reports).

    Read the secret report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR of 1955!
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 May 2020 10: 28 New
    +1
    Quote: Dalny V
    through the years 12037

    Huh? belay You have a strange calendar. recourse wink
  • cost
    cost 10 May 2020 15: 12 New
    +2
    It’s just not clear how, during these same years, the Soviet economy in agriculture grew at an unprecedented pace.

    "Eternal Call" A. Ivanov will tell you
  • LeonidL
    LeonidL 10 May 2020 06: 53 New
    +5
    The author's trick is quite simple - well, who can read these hard-to-read photocopies? Well, under unread, you can lightly push your ideas, which are not very decent on Victory Day. This is reminiscent of how some "military historians" and experts, without military education, vilify paints, describing the troubles of 1941, but completely forget that these very paints came to Berlin in 1945. "Historians" throw mud with might and main on repressed paints, for example Uborevich, Putna, Primakov, Yakir, but they forget that it was they who raised Zhukov, Rokosovsky, Malinovsky, Konev .... Not a single bad word about repressed teachers who commanded districts in which the future victors of Hitler commanded divisions and regiments. Colonel Starinov, who simply cannot even be suspected of duplicity and conjuncture, also gave a very high assessment. And after all, Rokossovsky, who commanded the Victory Parade, was also one of the repressed, Meretskov, Gorbatov ... And they fought well. So why are they better or worse than those who have fallen to the terrible lot? Surely they were more experienced and literate military commanders than the early promotions Pavlov, Kopets, and even the slightly more successful Kuznetsov (not the admiral), Kirpanos.
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 07: 23 New
      -2
      Quote: LeonidL
      Well, who can read these poorly readable photocopies?

      You can copy and enlarge ... Not a problem! You can find newspaper material on the Internet.
      1. LeonidL
        LeonidL 10 May 2020 17: 38 New
        +5
        That's right, Vyacheslav, you can do without you ... but why would you then provoke people like that before the Holiday? Why then download a lot of that which resembles such an indecent action, when the insane heir pulls out old, out of fashion, but once loved by grandparents, linen, dresses, letters and begins to comment on all this with a disgusting laugh, try on clowning from the point of zoenia " creative "liberoid of today"? Without elementary respect for the past, for their deceased ancestors? Then the time was different, and people were different, and newspapers wrote in a different style ... it is sad that a seemingly educated person does not understand this. However, there is formal education, and there is normal decency that excludes dancing on the bones of the dead.
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 18: 22 New
          -1
          Well, you write strange things, Leonid. There are people who understand everything and treat information normally. But for some reason I have to pay attention to others ... with perception problems. Enough to curry favor with them already. Do you like it - write articles "correct", "decent", and I will use the freedom of speech given to me by the Constitution to write about what I like and many other people. And they are and there are many of them. You don't have to count for everyone!
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 09: 48 New
      0
      Quote: LeonidL
      ... "Historians" throw mud with might and main on repressed paints, for example Uborevich, Putna, Primakov, Yakir, but they forget that they were the ones who raised Zhukov, Rokosovsky, Malinovsky, Konev .... Not a single memory of the marshals and generals of Victory

      Leonid, you have a mess in your head.
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 10 May 2020 07: 40 New
    -4
    The United States and the West are always looking for external enemies and appoint them .... without them they cannot develop .... in the USSR they searched for internal enemies and found ... it is necessary to somehow excite people to exploits ...
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 10 May 2020 08: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Pvi1206
      in the USSR they searched for internal enemies and found

      And they did it right, it turned out in 1941. not enough found. request There were enough external enemies, too, veins and tore, preparing for war. Otherwise, collectivization and industrialization were carried out for 20 years.
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 08: 42 New
        +1
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        And they did it right, it turned out in 1941. not enough found.

        And they would have found more ... they would have retreated to the Urals! Who would command? Budyonny with Voroshilov and Kulik?
        1. Plantagenet
          Plantagenet 10 May 2020 09: 27 New
          +1
          “The ideas about the inevitable future war were extremely primitive, no one doubted the lightning victory. In the course were the slogans: "Beat the enemy on its territory", "Little blood, a mighty blow!". In films about the future war, the Germans and Japanese fell in hundreds, beveled by our fire. Of the deceased heroes of the Civil War, they knew Chapaev, Schors, Frunze, Lazo, and of those who lived, Voroshilov, Budyonny, Blucher, Tukhachevsky. It was these latter who were to lead us into a new battle under the leadership of Comrade Stalin, to whom, according to the official version, we owed victory in the Civil War.
          And who would dare to hint that by the fifth anniversary of the Red Army, Pravda had published an editorial under the heading “Leon Trotsky - the organizer of victory”?
          Who could have imagined that in the very coming years Blucher and Tukhachevsky would be executed as enemies of the people, and Voroshilov and Budyonny would disgracefully disgrace themselves as commanders in the very first battles of the war with Germany, a war in which the Germans would be at four months later the gates of Moscow, having captured by this time three million of our soldiers and commanders? ”

          Georgy Ilyich Mirsky “Life in three eras”
          1. +5
            +5 10 May 2020 14: 06 New
            -1
            Excuse me, what did the poorly educated people have to report from the media? Theses of the report of Stalin to the warriors about the schools of the Finnish war?
            Which country's propaganda told the population about the difficulties of the impending war? Poland, France? It was the same there ... Hitler to the Germans about "a terrible end is better than an endless horror" and did not seem to tell the red flag over the Reichstag either
            And the very fact of the Evacuation, moreover, successful, tells us that all the country’s VPR about the glorious Red Army knew and foresaw ...
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 May 2020 15: 36 New
              0
              Quote: 5-9
              Excuse me, what did the poorly educated people have to report from the media? Theses of the report of Stalin to the warriors about the schools of the Finnish war?
              Which country's propaganda told the population about the difficulties of the impending war? Poland, France? It was the same there ... Hitler to the Germans about "a terrible end is better than an endless horror" and did not seem to tell the red flag over the Reichstag either
              And the very fact of the Evacuation, moreover, successful, tells us that all the country’s VPR about the glorious Red Army knew and foresaw ...

              Counter-question - Are you currently interested in the current state of the Egyptian or Swiss army? Most likely - no, they are interested in the shortcomings and opportunities of the Russian,
              1. +5
                +5 10 May 2020 19: 46 New
                +1
                Consideration of something historical, without comparing "what the Ukrainians have there", those that were at the moment in other places, the more an assessment from the point of view of modern morality, everyday life and afterthought is stupid stupidity ...
                In today's example, this is how to start tearing your hair off the afhedron by comparing 2300 tanks of the Russian Armed Forces with that of the 1990 SA fleet, not considering that the FRG does not have 4000, but 225 tanks, but the USA has less than 1500 ..
                .or that the fierce Terran the Terrible for cruelty punished Vasilyevich executed 3,2 thousand Christian souls, while 30 thousand were killed on Bartholomew’s night, and a little earlier Henry Namber 8 executed 80 thousand of his peyzans
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 May 2020 20: 18 New
                  -2
                  Yes, this is all understandable, we are talking about something else - how the catastrophe of 1941 missed the show. The Israelis say the following about the failures of the first days of the October War of 1973 - after the Six-Day War we imagined a lot about ourselves, not remembering the punctures of the Americans, for example, in Vietnam. Well, we should not give a damn about the French and others during WWII, and take into account the failures of the beginning of World War II for the future.
                  1. +5
                    +5 11 May 2020 09: 12 New
                    +1
                    Again. What did the French and British call the catastrophe many times deeper? How did Landver smear the Empire Army in 14m in a cow cake?
                    Does it ever occur to you that the Germans were cooler at that time than boiled eggs?
                    Yes, they didn’t miss anything much in 41m ... just to get the Germans up at once, the country had to start developing at a completely different pace 50 years before that ...
                    Without this, let's put this army here, and instead of doing this, this plane will simply shift the nuances of defeat ..
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 11 May 2020 09: 18 New
                      -1
                      The Germans were only one steep - training l / s and a serious, unconventional approach to the war. For good, preparing for such a war with Soviet resources took about 7-8 years, and not 50 - my opinion.
                      1. +5
                        +5 11 May 2020 12: 35 New
                        +1
                        No. They came up with an organizational wunderwafel, a tank division with an optimal ratio of tanks, motorized infantry and a motorized artel with engine parts ... We are similar to 43,44 mastered in the form of brigades and corps. And in our country there were as many trucks as the chances were taken away from the paddles. In this situation, even if you burst.
                        Well, a much higher educational and cultural level of the population .... which, without satiety for one generation, is not possible at least
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 11 May 2020 13: 08 New
                        -2
                        I do not agree. )))
                        Generation - 25 years. Under the Weimar Republic, there were hyperinflation, etc. Only 8 have passed since the advent of Hitler. The interaction of the arms of the armed forces was discussed by Tukhachevsky in the early 30s. The main thrust of the Germans was horse, so here it is not so simple)).
                      3. +5
                        +5 11 May 2020 14: 36 New
                        +2
                        Look deeper. In WWI, the Germans carried us with one left heel, butting us in the west. According to the WWII results, Americans found that platoons from flimsy Boston students are several times more effective and losses are lower than blood and milk from Oklahoma rednecks. Due to the educational and cultural level of the lower ranks, Jews fought Arabs over and over again ... Although the latter had the highest level of equipment and arrows on the map and a quantitative advantage ..
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 11 May 2020 15: 11 New
                        -2
                        Yes, I agree, the educational level, but, in my opinion, there was enough time to fix it all. In addition, not very competent Jordanians, trained with shaving, inflicted equal losses on the IDF - they were crushed only by the masses.
    2. +5
      +5 10 May 2020 14: 09 New
      +1
      By the way, what is the French and British media about the heroes of the Great War in April 1940, a month before the Wehrmacht arranged a total exterminatus for their armies in just 2 weeks?
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 09: 51 New
    -3
    Quote: kalibr

    And they would have found more ... they would have retreated to the Urals! Who would command? Budyonny with Voroshilov and Kulik?

    Come on, come on, "historian", what do you know about Marshal Kulik?
    "Please" with a revelation.
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 10: 41 New
      +1
      I will rejoice, everything has its time. Not all at once ...
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 10 May 2020 12: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        I will rejoice, everything has its time. Not all at once ...

        As a suggestion, try to analyze the personalities of the 17th Congress, who were repressed for what. There is no way without archive sources, and not everyone can get to them. Most disputants have no idea what really happened then.
    2. Plantagenet
      Plantagenet 10 May 2020 10: 52 New
      +5
      “Explaining later his actions in the Crimea, Kulik blamed the demoralization and non-combat capability of the army units exhausted by continuous fighting:“ I had nothing to defend Kerch with. There was a frayed muggle there - just a gang. The army became a gang! They drank, women were raped. to keep Kerch? I arrived too late - it was impossible to save the situation. "

      On February 16, 1942, the Supreme Court ruled to strip Kulik of the titles of Marshal and Hero of the Soviet Union, as well as all military awards. Three days later, he was expelled from the membership of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and removed from his post as deputy people's commissar of defense. "

      Full text here - https://www.gazeta.ru/science/2019/08/14_a_12578833.shtml
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 10 May 2020 07: 59 New
    +3
    "Black Board" of shame!
    It would be nice to have one in the Duma. Where to reflect how deputies fulfill the mandates of voters and fulfill their responsibilities. By the way, a newspaper clipping indicates that corrected comrades were removed from the board. Justice, however. repeat
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 08: 11 New
      +1
      The task of this kind of awareness of citizens should be performed primarily by the local media. To monitor what the deputy elected by the people did or did not do. But ... local ... connections, friends, concerns. Therefore, on the ground with this deaf. I know of a case when in one province the journalists of a criticizing newspaper were deliberately set up and brought to court in order to ... So it is difficult in the localities. The media must be very rich and truly independent. At the federal level, it is even more difficult. Here the "board" is indispensable.
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 10: 08 New
        +7
        Quote: kalibr
        The media must be very rich and truly independent.

        Bullshit. The media has always been and will be addicted. The whole question is from whom?
        Therefore, each "body" should have its own media, dependent ONLY on its "body". And no more from anyone and from nothing. And the reader himself will sort out the media of which "body" to read. I believe that in this case, your opuses, published on the pages of the media of your "organ", hardly anyone would rush to read. And by publishing here, the reader is forced to read your fantasy on a historical theme.
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 10: 40 New
          -3
          Quote: Krasnoyarsk
          And when printing here, the reader is forced to read your fantasies on a historical topic.

          Exactly! But what kind of fantasies are these? Here is a newspaper text!
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 13: 43 New
            +5
            Quote: kalibr

            Exactly! But what kind of fantasies are these? Here is a newspaper text!

            The text is really newspaper. But your comments on the text distort everything that is written there. Conclusions from what you read are strange, with a subvert. Which in general is not surprising.
            1. kalibr
              10 May 2020 18: 16 New
              -3
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              But your comments on the text distort everything that is written there.

              Is that all? Amazing ... I didn’t even think that such a thing was possible!
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 10 May 2020 14: 15 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        The media must be very rich and truly independent.

        The media should be interesting to be paid by those who want to read them.
      3. Liam
        Liam 10 May 2020 14: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        The media must be very rich and truly independent

        Media should be free and competitive. Represent different points of view on an equal footing. And independence is such an ephemeral concept. There is always an owner or editor-in-chief or editorial policy, etc. Yes, a journalist himself cannot be independent of himself and expresses his subjective vision of topics.
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 15: 15 New
          +1
          You all said it well!
      4. BAI
        BAI 10 May 2020 21: 45 New
        +2
        The task of this kind of awareness among citizens should be performed primarily by local media.

        The media owe nothing to anyone. They are obliged to fulfill the will of the employer - what he says is to write. Any dissenting - free, outside the editorial office and accounting.
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 10 May 2020 08: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    The task of this kind of awareness among citizens should be performed primarily by local media.

    Quote: kalibr
    So on the ground it’s difficult. The media must be very rich and truly independent.

    Why, then, write such a pen, a self-pen fell into my hands? hi It is necessary to do so, but it is impossible. fool
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 08: 41 New
      -1
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Why, then, write such a pen, a self-pen fell into my hands?

      Well, local newspapers write more than that. There is a ton of all kinds of information ... And they also write about the landing of corrupt officials from the authorities there.
  • Slavs
    Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 33 New
    +9
    Well, thank you, at least not on May 9 they posted an article ... Or were they not allowed to push convulsions on the keyboard?
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 10: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Slavs
      Well, thank you, at least not on May 9 they posted an article ... Or were they not allowed to push convulsions on the keyboard?

      The question of what and when to upload is not in the competence of the authors, but in the administration of the site.
      1. Slavs
        Slavs 10 May 2020 10: 44 New
        +5
        And I wanted to lay out the truth for the holiday ... Eh! ...
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 11: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Slavs
          And I wanted to lay out the truth for the holiday ... Eh! ...

          The TRUTH is in front of you! The organ of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b)! There was simply no other truth in the USSR. Every communist began his day by reading it and hesitated accordingly with the vacillations of the party line. Those who did not have time or simply forgot to live according to Pravda, got hit on the head ... But, by the way, if you so wanted to put something out, then who was stopping you? You already have one material, so you know the way ...
          1. Slavs
            Slavs 10 May 2020 11: 05 New
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            There was simply no other truth in the USSR

            That's great ... And then today's diversity of truth is tired ...
          2. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 10 May 2020 20: 06 New
            +4
            Straight oil painting, morning, communist Shpakovsky woke up, got up, stretched, yawned sweetly, went to the toilet scratching ..., sat down, opened Pravda and absorbs the truth ... and then go ahead, agitate and propagate, beauty, there are no calluses on the hands, but there is to eat ... and better than the one who has calluses ... and then time flew by, bam, and everything changed: it's really not true, but you have to live and let's agitate again , but it is not clear for whom and for what and about all sorts of tricky gizmos, supposedly super weapons, squeeze articles ... bravo ...
            1. kalibr
              11 May 2020 06: 57 New
              -2
              Why such a muddy stream of consciousness? The vagueness in the construction of phrases is the most vivid demonstration of mental weakness. The beginning is about one thing, the end is about the other ... Take an interest on the Web, the symptoms of which are similar "texts". It's a shame that I already wrote a textbook on Internet journalism. I would insert this "scripture" as an example ... of the author!
  • Cheerock
    Cheerock 10 May 2020 13: 27 New
    +7
    A rather weak little article with malicious comments from a couch expert of the future, who, of course, knows how to, and ancestors, of course.
    Worst of all was van der Lubbe. He was executed! “Don’t set the Reichstag on fire!”
    - The article says just the opposite. But who will read the article in a small photo from a mobile phone. And therefore - a ride, people pick it up.
    But in Poland it was a hard life!
    And she was light, yes. Unemployment 40% and 6.5 million starving Poles. Chic, cho. But the people will not understand again, and they will do it all.
    But then, 1934 was marked by "Soviet-Polish rapprochement"
    - and what's wrong with that? Well, yes. We are gradually bringing to the nonaggression pact. But we are modestly silent about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, because the people in VO certainly do not shun such heresy.
    The newspaper continued to write about the Nazis. Well, for example, that in Germany they can’t master the adopted four-year plan ...
    - So they did not master. Moreover, they accepted it only 2 years later. What is sarcasm?
    On the collective farms of Kazakhstan, bourgeois degenerates deceived the party and Soviet power!
    - maybe, nevertheless, we read it - what is the article about and what responsibility would these characters have brought in modern times?
    To summarize. For the whole 34 year, the author sprinkled three dozen clippings about shortcomings, on which he tried to pour out his wit. With wit, however, everything is not very good even to the level of Pretchett or Jerome; K. Jerome - as to China in reverse. This author will never write about successes for the same 1934, but no one bothers readers to do it themselves.
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 13: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: CheeRock
      but no one bothers readers to do it themselves.

      That's it. But what is wrong in your comments? There is no sarcasm there. And the truth is written ... It was a hard life, there was a rapprochement. Where is it written that it was bad? At least a word? There was an article about the pact ... or do you need a monograph with all the "yaty", and not an article? So you sum up badly, you need to learn.
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 10 May 2020 13: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: CheeRock
      - maybe, nevertheless, we read it - what is the article about and what responsibility would these characters have brought in modern times?
      To summarize. For the whole 34 year, the author sprinkled three dozen clippings about shortcomings, on which he tried to pour out his wit. With wit, however, everything is not very good even to the level of Pretchett or Jerome; K. Jerome - as to China in reverse. This author will never write about successes for the same 1934, but no one bothers readers to do it themselves.

      Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye !!! good good good
  • Cheerock
    Cheerock 10 May 2020 13: 43 New
    +5
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    And when printing here, the reader is forced to read your fantasies on a historical topic.

    Exactly! But what kind of fantasies are these? Here is a newspaper text!

    Monsieur, unfortunately, I am not 18 years old and I can see perfectly well what you are doing now. You don't even kick the dead lion, you dig in the dead lion's feces. But, unlike an archaeological scientist, who will determine by the feces of a lion - what he ate and what allowed him to be a lion, you do this purely out of love for the very process of coprophagy, firstly, and secondly, you are trying to replace the lion itself with the feces of a lion. This is the whole point of modern alternative couch "historians" without historical education.
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 15: 18 New
      -4
      You obviously flatter yourself ... not 18 years old. In fact, the sandbox is crying for you, you got out of it too early!
      1. Slavs
        Slavs 10 May 2020 18: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        Silly people discuss people!

        Vyacheslav Olegovich, what are you, right ... Here is your phrase addressed to me above ..
        And now you are discussing the person yourself .. Not good ...
        1. kalibr
          10 May 2020 19: 13 New
          -2
          Quote: Slavs
          And now you are discussing the person yourself .. Not good ...

          Inconsistency is characteristic of man ... I am a man, therefore human imperfections are not alien to me!
          1. Slavs
            Slavs 11 May 2020 12: 58 New
            +3
            Do not meet your own standards))
            Mimicry .. The USSR will return - again you will begin to teach the history of the party ..)
            1. kalibr
              11 May 2020 12: 59 New
              -4
              Quote: Slavs
              The USSR will return - again you will begin to teach the history of the party ..)

              Unscientific fiction doesn't interest me at all.
              1. Slavs
                Slavs 11 May 2020 13: 12 New
                +5

                And this scientific fantasy ?
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 10 May 2020 17: 23 New
    +3
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    Quote: kalibr
    Soviet!

    Gulchatay opened her anti-Soviet mug

    ... godfather said with flour ...)))
  • Yaik Cossack
    Yaik Cossack 10 May 2020 17: 31 New
    +6
    It's funny to see how a real Soviet newspaper is now causing such negative emotions regarding ... its publisher)))
    1. Slavs
      Slavs 10 May 2020 18: 50 New
      +3
      The publisher loves to make the accents he needs ... And so in every article, no matter what
      was ... I have not yet seen an impartial review from him ...
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 19: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: Slavs
        I have not yet seen an impartial review from him ...

        Nothing great happened without passion! The information process in this case is in 5 languages, so what kind of impartiality are we talking about?
        1. Slavs
          Slavs 11 May 2020 13: 02 New
          +4
          Quote: kalibr
          Nothing great happened without passion!

          So what do you want from Soviet newspapers? They, with all their proletarian passion, sowed in their minds what they considered right and necessary .. And there was a great country .. How are you trying to sow your own ... Only your goals are muddy ... And it’s not clear which country you are trying to ..)
          1. kalibr
            11 May 2020 17: 57 New
            0
            Quote: Slavs
            With all their proletarian passion, they sowed in the minds what they considered right and necessary ..

            Sergei! But do I blame them for this? At least somewhere? I write that they did NOT know how to do it right, yes, I write it. But from the height of YOUR KNOWLEDGE, and I always emphasize this, is it not? I do not hide that we know better ... And I never write that the country was not great. And the great country had great mistakes. And since we are the GREAT COUNTRY even today, knowing the GREAT ERRORS OF THE PAST you do not need to repeat them today. Is it really incomprehensible?
            How many times did he quote this quote as an epigraph: So then, to anyone who listens to these words of mine and performs them, I will liken him to a prudent man who built his house on a stone;
            . and it began to rain, and the rivers spilled, and the winds blew, and rushed to that house, and it did not fall, because it was built on a stone.
            . And everyone who hears these My words and does not fulfill them will become like a foolish man who built his house on the sand;
            ... and the rain fell, and the rivers overflowed, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and he fell, and his great fall was. "
            And you ... vague goals ... Enlightenment of the orphan and the poor, who do not understand all this, the goal is truly noble and important, and not "vague". Explained easily?
            And I try, of course, for a country in which I would be comfortable living. Deserved this right, I think.
  • LeonidL
    LeonidL 10 May 2020 17: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
    Quote: LeonidL
    ... "Historians" throw mud with might and main on repressed paints, for example Uborevich, Putna, Primakov, Yakir, but they forget that they were the ones who raised Zhukov, Rokosovsky, Malinovsky, Konev .... Not a single memory of the marshals and generals of Victory

    Leonid, you have a mess in your head.

    This is your kind, personal opinion. But in fact?
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 10 May 2020 17: 33 New
    +2
    Oh, this Shpakovsky ..

    1. Facts, if they are true, do not in themselves defame. Those who use them for libel are slandering. What was written in Pravda is correct in itself, but based on the printed information, generalize that the USSR and the Soviet government are to blame, this is slander.

    This is exactly what Shpakovsky differs in.

    I'm already tired of writing about his dirty opuses, because he has to repeat the same thing, but he, even with ... s in his eyes, is all God's dew. As they say in Russia: “he will correct the hunchbacked grave,” we will wait a little longer, bile quickly eats such people.

    There were shortcomings in the USSR, sloppiness, sabotage, and the party and government constantly fought against them, moreover, it was multifaceted not only by repressions, but also by explanations,. education, warning, and only those who could not calm down - were imprisoned, deported, and even shot depending on the gravity of the crime.

    But, what is remarkable. No matter how much the Shpakovskys and others like him tried, the people in indestructible memory of the USSR and its History. On May 9 of this year, even in Ukraine, in all cities, despite all the prohibitions and restrictions, people massively came to the monuments with their children, and no one organized them, it played a memory of the people.

    2. On the surprise of Shpakovsky that in 1934 there were no enemies of the people, and in 1937 they suddenly appeared.
    Not suddenly. They were from the very beginning of the Great October Socialist Revolution. These are those who have been taken away from privileges, factories and lands, newspapers and steamboats.

    During the civil war, they hoped that the Soviet government would not stand for a long time, but it survived, and everyone who fought against it, the Soviet government granted amnesty and gave them the opportunity to work honestly.
    So they did not disappear anywhere, they became quiet, and during the time of the NEP they hoped for a natural restoration of the bourgeois order. But when the industrialization and collectivization of the USSR began, they launched large-scale wrecking.

    Their supporters were in the party, and in the state apparatus, and in the army, and in the NKVD, but they all finally appeared when the new Constitution of 1936 was adopted in the USSR. She revealed all the enemies of the USSR as litmus paper. 1936 Constitution ALL (!) gave the same rights.

    Then the opposition realized that the Soviet power had finally strengthened, and that it wouldn’t have enough power to blame it, and the opposition had relied on a new intervention, which is why foreign agents began to come to them.
    1. kalibr
      10 May 2020 20: 23 New
      -2
      Quote: Alexander Green
      There were shortcomings in the USSR, sloppiness, sabotage, and the party and government constantly fought against them, moreover, it was multifaceted not only by repressions, but also by explanations,. education, warning, and only those who could not calm down - were imprisoned, deported, and even shot depending on the gravity of the crime.

      They fought, fought, and then everything fell apart from this fight ... Neither shootings nor explanations helped ...
      1. Deniska999
        Deniska999 10 May 2020 20: 50 New
        0
        And you didn’t look, are there any reports from imperial times preserved? It’s interesting what they wrote there.
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 10 May 2020 21: 42 New
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        They fought, fought, and then everything fell apart from this fight ... Neither shootings nor explanations helped ...

        Firstly, it didn’t fall apart, but destroyed internal and external enemies that have not gone anywhere.
        Secondly, to destroy remoteness precisely because stopped fighting these enemies after Khrushchev and his clique politically disarmed both the workers and the party, renounce the dictatorship of the proletariat and the continuation of the class struggle in the USSR.
        1. kalibr
          11 May 2020 06: 49 New
          -2
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Khrushchev and his clique politically disarmed both the workers and the party

          Yes, yes, "they made their way and are falling apart"! And how much money have we poured into the Communist Party of different countries, into the same US Communist Party, and no one "got in there and ruined something"?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 11 May 2020 13: 53 New
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            Yes, yes, "they made their way and are falling apart"! And how much money have we poured into the Communist Party of different countries, into the same US Communist Party, and no one "got in there and ruined something"?

            Well, I'm just uncomfortable for you, after all, you were a "teacher of the History of the CPSU" - that sounds proudly. But you turn out to be just a poor student, your question shows how badly you studied the theory of revolution, and you also tell that only V.I. ... Lenin was read, I don't believe it.
            1. kalibr
              11 May 2020 17: 47 New
              -2
              I believe - I do not believe, this is in the temple to the priest. And here it is necessary to understand that the specialty of the history of the CPSU when admitting to graduate school was passed in two exams. The first one before 17 and after the 17th - the second. And this volume included both Macrs and Engeles and Lenin in the volume of 56 volumes. And they asked this for real, because it was admission to a sickly feeder ... So you want it or not, but you had to read and know. Because during the exam the professors (some kind of female dog) liked to ask, but what, Lenin wrote in his work ... "The lessons of the Moscow uprising" about bombers ... And if you didn't read it, you could easily say that he was didn’t approve ha ha. Or what Marx and Engels wrote about vodka made from potatoes ... It was generally a tough question ... and a man sat down on it and then repeated it a year later! But in principle, all this was not so difficult. You were not sent to graduate school in the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union until you worked for three years. And during this time it was possible to read everything.
              But you do not write on the merits of the question: it was possible to make our way and break up, but they couldn’t ?! It turns out that they had a better deal with the security of the state.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 11 May 2020 19: 30 New
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                I believe - I do not believe it, it's in the temple to the priest.

                What does the temple have to do with it? This is Stanislavsky’s response to a bad actor, who, like a bad dancer, is in the way.
                Quote: kalibr
                But you do not write on the merits of the question: it was possible to make our way and break up, but they couldn’t ?! It turns out that they had a better deal with the security of the state.

                It is felt that the theory of revolution V.I. You did not study Lenin, otherwise you would know:
                1. "The proletariat is fighting - the bourgeoisie is sneaking into power" (V. I. Lenin, PSS, Vol. 13, p. 219)
                2. "... The revolution grows out of objective (regardless of parties and classes) imminent crises and turning points in history" (V. I. Lenin, PSS, Vol.26, p. 246)
                1. kalibr
                  13 May 2020 11: 50 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  "... The revolution grows out of objective (regardless of parties and classes) imminent crises and turning points in history" (V. I. Lenin, PSS, Vol.26, p. 246)

                  Then why did we help the communists of different countries when there were no crises and fractures?
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 13 May 2020 17: 06 New
                    +1
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Then why did we help the communists of different countries when there were no crises and fractures?

                    And the former teacher of History of the CPSU asks ....
                    A revolutionary situation may mature, but if there is no party that will lead the working class to power, then there will be no revolution. As the saying goes: "Everything in due time: the time will come, and the seed will grow."
                    1. kalibr
                      13 May 2020 17: 07 New
                      -1
                      Well, that helped ... And by the way, there were crises, in particular, the energy crisis, but something their / our communists screwed up everywhere. Nowhere did they manage to get in and destroy ... inept. Whether it is the "assassin and the disintegrator" Khrushchev !!!
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 13 May 2020 17: 12 New
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Well, they helped ...

                        What are you speaking about? About the defeat of socialism in the USSR ?. So the reason is not that. Only illiterate laymen think so.
                      2. kalibr
                        13 May 2020 17: 28 New
                        -1
                        The main thing here is that it fell apart. They are no bad, and we are good no. That's all. And no one else needs any explanation.
                      3. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 May 2020 09: 20 New
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        The main thing here is that it fell apart. They are no bad, and we are good no. That's all. And no one else needs any explanation.

                        Quote: kalibr
                        The main thing here is that it fell apart. They are no bad, and we are good no. That's all. And no one else needs any explanation.

                        This is for you - the layman and the tradesman do not need it, but just the young people need it.
                      4. kalibr
                        14 May 2020 14: 51 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        and young people just need

                        He worked with this youth for many years ... She is terrified of our previous life, people of that time remind her of rabid dogs! Just looking at the books of your adored Ilyich just makes them sick, and only they can read them in their opinion. For them, the main thing is the freedom to do what they want, to express what they want, and to earn money especially without straining. Modern life gives them all this!
                      5. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 May 2020 17: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        He worked with this youth for many years ... Modern life gives them all this! ..

                        And who did you work with? With sissies at the institute? Those who go out on their bread think differently. And your sons after a collision with the current realities, too, sober up quickly and want justice, not mythical freedom ..
                      6. kalibr
                        14 May 2020 18: 19 New
                        0
                        Something no one complains to me about injustice. Penza is a small city, I meet my graduates all the time. They work everywhere from the FSB to private enterprises. And only one (the family has its black sheep!) Loads frozen vegetables into bags in the refrigerator. And those who study are far from being mama's sons, now many start working from the first year. And in our specialty we demanded (!) This from the second without fail. So no need to ... kick me in, we kick it in to people like you and you are doing everything that we need ... Soon there will be my article about how we brought our entire region into the 90s from the "red belt" of everything with just one well-conducted study. And that was then ... I am not even talking about the possibilities now!
                      7. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 May 2020 21: 02 New
                        +2
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Something no one complains about my injustice.

                        Chernomyrdin also asked the State Duma deputies which of them is currently living poorly. No one will respond, but the people at that time were stretching a cube for a week for ..
                      8. kalibr
                        14 May 2020 21: 11 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        and the people at that time stretched a cube for a week ..

                        And all the time they stuck out at the pub! Stop this bad agitation for the unfortunate poor. All the workers I know earn more than me and spend their holidays in Turkey and Italy. And the really poor looking crowd in the morning at the pub and the waste paper collection point, discussing and condemning the government. These are only suitable for fertilization, and the first ... the first, in general, are doing well. In our city, streets began to expand again. There are so many cars ... poor workers ... So don't bother me. "Sniffing" is my job!
                      9. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 15 May 2020 13: 24 New
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        "Sniff" is my job!

                        Yes, you are a Losers, judging by the minuses, you don't even have any sense to "vtyuhivat".
                      10. kalibr
                        15 May 2020 13: 43 New
                        0
                        Green! What time I write to you, and you are all mine, what are the minuses, what are the pros ... it does not matter. These are toys for stupid ones like you. They give people the opportunity to play around ... It matters - I wrote to you many times, but it doesn’t reach, alas, clicks, that is, the number of views. And your writings are also cliques. The more, the better! You write, you try to prove something to me ... I’m writing the truth to you in response. But does not reach. It’s funny even ... In Internet journalism they’re not evaluated by cons, has it finally arrived or is everything still? Together we have brought the number of views to 8, comments to 990. This is an indicator! And there are some minuses only in your imagination mean something. Than they are not more - the better!
                      11. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 15 May 2020 13: 58 New
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        It matters - he wrote to you many times, but doesn’t get it, alas - clicks, that is, the number of views. And your writings are also cliques.

                        Yes, I do not mind, as much as you like, well, eat an extra snickers with my family for my clicks, so this will only raise the bilirubin in the blood, but the "deuce" is your business card.
                      12. kalibr
                        15 May 2020 14: 21 New
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        well eat extra snickers with my family for my clicks

                        Why do you have such a poor fantasy that you have all the sneakers? Imagine something more interesting. I have never worked for sneakers. What time do I write to you that your opinion, "deuce", "three", triangle or cube do not matter. Here is your presence - yes. The more often, the better. There was someone "Mammoth", but something disappeared. Now you have appeared, just a gift from God. You will write to you that Lenin dabbled in beer and Inessochka Armand - and that's it, in response there will be a stream of denunciations (how about holy-oh-oh-oh!), That Mars and Engels in general ... did not dry out and indulged in intimacy with the servants .. . - and again I am waiting for indications of what is wrong. What they tied up with laces and made a revolution!
                      13. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 15 May 2020 22: 15 New
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Now you have appeared, just a gift of God.

                        Well, you see, what a good tandem we got, I’ve clicked for you ... and you give me your invaluable comments, continue in the same vein, continue to twist your dirty pain. It’s great, you are a unique instance, I’m using your example to bring up the second generation of fighters for communism.
                      14. kalibr
                        16 May 2020 07: 44 New
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I’m using your example to bring up the second generation of fighters for communism.

                        And then the guys from the SBU will come and carefully so the brains will set you all right! But you continue, everyone should do what pleases him in life. Only for this we live! Just do not have to fool ... About the second generation. According to the standard theory of generations, one generation is 33 years old. More modern theory says 25 years. I have been on the site since 2014. So do not give out what is being done as real, this is ridiculous. If you consider yours, then from 1995 to 2017 I prepared as many as 22 generations, although in reality this is not at all true.
                      15. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 16 May 2020 11: 35 New
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        So do not give out what is being done as valid,

                        It depends on how you count. The program of our school is designed for 3 years, the first we released in 2018, in 1921 it will be the second. You can be proud, you are the main exhibit for us.
                        As for the reduction of the brain ... Do not wait.
                        Sunday schools are not prohibited here, even the church organizes them. and what are we worse? We don’t sharpen knives, we don’t collect grenades, we learn, and it’s not bad at all, even we study Hegel’s dialectics.
                      16. kalibr
                        16 May 2020 18: 46 New
                        0
                        Everything is better than drinking vodka, but worse than working in the country ...
                      17. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 16 May 2020 21: 13 New
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Everything is better than drinking vodka, but worse than working in the country ...

                        To each his own.
                2. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 25 May 2020 00: 19 New
                  0
                  Good evening, Alexander! hi I look through the articles I missed. That's what surprises - there are a lot of different people of different ages ---- and only one is concerned about what shoelaces are during the USSR.
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  ......... Well, you see what a good tandem we have, I’ve clicked for you ... and you give me your invaluable comments, continue in the same vein, continue to twist your dirty pain. It’s great, you are a unique instance, I’m using your example to bring up the second generation of fighters for communism.

                  I think your class members have fun wassat laughing lol laughing from the heart
                3. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 25 May 2020 18: 12 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  I think your class students have fun

                  And they have fun and study, because there are such Shpakovsky everywhere, and we must be able to fend off them.
                4. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 25 May 2020 19: 36 New
                  0
                  Another also wrote about all kinds of ties negative but I forgot laughing And it’s also funny when they say: “I don’t lie, it’s beneath my dignity to deceive people like you!” “Now I understand that deception is always, just if we have incomplete knowledge, then not to answer correctly. So it was, for me, for example, when there was a topic about Stolypin for a long time. Cheating is always, and the game of truthfulness, so, PR move, garbage, cheap
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  I think your class students have fun

                  And they have fun and study, because there are such Shpakovsky everywhere, and we must be able to fend off them.
  • kalibr
    10 May 2020 18: 29 New
    -1
    Quote: strannik1985
    I don’t know, maybe they thought it was easier to steal from the field?
    Reply

    They stole because there was nothing to eat, roughly speaking. That the collective farm received sticks, but no grain. There was my article with reports from the head of the NKVD about what was happening in Penz. the area that was then part of Tambov in 1938, and he made conclusions there! Go to your profile and take a look. "Swelling from hunger, really not, but there is hunger!" The happiness of the collective farm system! You would go there!
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 10 May 2020 20: 10 New
      +5
      That's just not for you, who escaped like hell from incense from the village about collective farms
      1. kalibr
        10 May 2020 20: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        That's just not for you, who escaped like hell from incense from the village

        Are you drunk or write to a fool, or both at once? By law, a graduate of a pedagogical institute of higher education had to work for three years in the village, which I did. And then ... go wherever you want! If everyone followed the law like that, we would have already lived under communism!
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 10 May 2020 20: 27 New
          +4
          I, dear elderly man, did not insult you exclusively, that you are older this time, better keep silent about the law and communism, I remember your opuses for living in a village, worked for lost and run home, and that, everything is according to the law, and after us at least a flood .... like this all my life, you’re for fun, at first campaigning for communism, now stupid things and crap for a penny stable, but it will appear when you say that they did something worthwhile, that they left behind ...
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  • BAI
    BAI 10 May 2020 21: 19 New
    +4
    It turns out that in three years its "current" has not been eliminated? But what is this obtained? The trend, however!

    So what? Since 1991, we have been plundered from the budget. But in the 30s they shot for it, and who was shot now?
    1. kalibr
      11 May 2020 06: 40 New
      -2
      Quote: BAI
      But in the 30s they shot for it, and who was shot now?

      They shot ... and still did! This is important to understand, right?
  • kalibr
    11 May 2020 06: 50 New
    -1
    Quote: Deniska999
    And you didn’t look, are there any reports from imperial times preserved? It’s interesting what they wrote there.
    Reply

    I watched a lot of things that interests you specifically?
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 11 May 2020 09: 34 New
    +1
    Kulak hiding places. Damn. Below is an article about my Uspensky district. Where to find it now. And grandfathers almost did not stretch their legs while looking for caches. They all won over people. They survived on a swan. Not a very glorious story.
    1. kalibr
      11 May 2020 13: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      Kulak hiding places. Damn. Below is an article about my Uspensky district. Where to find it now. And grandfathers almost did not stretch their legs while looking for caches. They all won over people. They survived on a swan. Not a very glorious story.

      Dear Nicholas! All of this is: A - in your State Archive, B - in your archive of the OK CPSU, I don’t know how it was renamed, C - in the archive of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      1. Pashhenko Nikolay
        Pashhenko Nikolay 11 May 2020 15: 12 New
        0
        Thank you for the hint. But there is no online access. And what I found in open access, 1934 is not digitized.
        1. kalibr
          11 May 2020 17: 37 New
          +1
          Well, you have to wait. I also ordered a bunch of newspapers and documents in my archives and everything was covered ... by a coronovirus!
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 21 July 2020 06: 18 New
    0
    Some say that it was socialism. Socialism was just being built. And mistakes could not be avoided. This is now put in the daddy's plan for a capitalist system with a Russian bias. But you can't get away from the national one. Also, they doze in the presidium. They also write down the obvious thoughts of the leader. The main subject of controversy is repression. Repression is a protective letter of any state, starting with the slave-owning one. This is bad. But no smart person will say that in the future they will not be in any country. This is a product of the state. War has changed a lot. But man is forgetful. And again we are looking for opponents of our fatherland. For what? In many ways, for the sake of a career, or by drawing rainbow pictures in front of me.
  • Kwas
    Kwas 2 August 2020 19: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR in 1956 and we see that in the 30s the Americans ate THREE_FOUR times more meat, milk, eggs than in the USSR.

    And some people like to compare with America! Hundreds of years of sucking juices, and never knew the aggressor. And let's compare with Panama, Mexico, Brazil ... Also America, by the way! Or for example with India ...
  • Kwas
    Kwas 2 August 2020 20: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: BAI
    But in the 30s they shot for it, and who was shot now?

    They shot ... and still did! This is important to understand, right?

    It is important to understand something else. They did, but in the end there were funds for industrialization! And now? Something industrialization is not visible. Maybe precisely because they steal everything without fear of execution?
  • Kwas
    Kwas 2 August 2020 20: 15 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    The main thing for them is the freedom to do what they want, to express what they want, and to make money without straining too much. Modern life gives them all this!

    I must say, these have always been. Only you have not added "and will not answer for anything." Only now it is the state's business to force such people to do what is necessary, and receive according to their work, and not according to their wishes. Otherwise, the state dies.