Military Review

Archival affairs: NKVD on peasants and Stakhanovites

297

This is how newspaper sets look in the state archive. It is very interesting to read first the newspapers, and then the archival affairs of the OK party. Or vice versa - first things and then newspapers. It opens so yin and yang, black and white, clean and dirty, that only you wonder. One thing in the newspapers, another thing in the “deeds”. No wonder most often under the heading "secret" and "owls. secretly. " Such was life then. “To ordinary people” - hooray, “we are great, we are powerful, higher than the sun, more clouds”, and there ... “top secret”, only for the elite.


"... and revealed to him many miracles and revealed the secrets of the times ..."
The third book of Ezra 14: 5


History and documents. Let's start with the fact that publication of documents of the Penza OFOPO GAPO, as, however, as expected, caused an ambiguous reaction from the VO readership. Someone familiarity with the documents seemed interesting. Well, someone, looking at the screen, of course, blamed the author for all the shortcomings he saw there. That is, the selection is “not that” (one-sided), and the filing of photographic material is hacky (and professional photography costs money, unless someone wants to sponsor it for me?), In a word, “it's not that.”

But here, by the way, the saying will have to be made: there is nothing to blame for the mirror if the face is crooked. Already what documents are, we publish such. Hidden to this point from the public. The materials of the newspapers Pravda, Stalin's Banner and others were not hidden ... And this is like two faces of the two-faced god Janus: one for all, the other for the elect. And isn’t it interesting to know, and with what, in fact, did these chosen ones have to deal with for the benefit of the others who were estranged from this unpleasant information? In any case, other VO visitors are not eager to go to their local archives and to show by concrete examples from documents that everything was fine in their cities, that this negative has been a purely local phenomenon since the era the city of Glupov Saltykov-Shchedrin.

True, some still admit that "no one argues, there were flaws, but ..." Well, look with your own eyes what the flaws were, how they accumulated over the years, accumulated, and then the quantity turned into quality, and it came 1991 year. So, for example, I would only be glad that without any work whatsoever, and just by opening the VO page on the Internet, it became possible to look into the holy of holies of one of the party archives. Well, just like a drop of water you can think of the presence of seas and oceans, and with these little bits of information you can fully imagine the state of affairs throughout the country. Somewhere more, somewhere less ... So, we continue our acquaintance with our history.

Archival affairs: NKVD on peasants and Stakhanovites
Shot from the movie “Cain 18” The head of the secret police and the prime minister fined, and on the left is his “bronze informant”. Probably, something similar was with us, although, most likely, not so sophisticated ...

Among the documents of the party archive of the Penza region, a special place is occupied by memoranda from the head of the city department of the NKVD, who informed the secretary of the city committee about all manifestations of anti-Soviet behavior of citizens. Who, what, about whether, about this, when, and in the presence of whom, he spoke, what did anyone complain about and why. It was reported on the facts of unacceptable behavior and on cases of industrial marriage detected at the military enterprises of the city. That is, the party knew everything as well as the NKVD bodies. Let's look at some of these notes of one of the most interesting periods in the history of our country - documents for 1937.


“Didn’t cope on the field of counter-propaganda”

Reading these documents, you inevitably come to the conclusion that there were a lot of people in our country (and even now they haven’t translated!) In their own way smart, honest, but ... that’s purely stupidly everyday. So these two ... Well, what did they achieve with their statements? They put the party organizer in a puddle and fell into the field of vision of the corresponding "organs". That is, even in the 37th there were enough of those who “spoke not for, but against,” but there were even more, of course, those who thought the same, but were silent. And there were absolutely “smart people” who also thought that way, but who lacked the mind and insight to say something completely different, including from high stands! And there were those who saw in them sincere, so to speak, and devotees ... and cast their votes for them. And then, being at the very top, these people quickly "morally decomposed." That is, as one of the visitors to our site said in a commentary on past material, “there were a lot of bastards.” So I want to add - "And that!"

And now let us get acquainted with this document, which was preserved very poorly, but it is still possible to parse the contents. This is a memo on food difficulties on collective farms in 1937.


We read the first page ...


We read the second ...


And then we immediately proceed to the fifth, final one, since on all previous ones everything is absolutely the same

And we see on it that as the head of the Penza NKVD on the basis of his "intelligence" assesses the situation: "... there is no doubt that a significant majority of them lack grain for themselves and livestock feed - the collective farmers' families especially in feeds." And as a result: "These fodder-food difficulties create among the collective farmers decadent and unhealthy moods." But what about "life has become better and more fun." And among other things, in the newspaper "Stalin's banner" about these difficulties with food in the village ... they wrote. They wrote that bread was stolen, that grain was strewed to the ground from holey bags, that mares were thrown off from poor care. That's about the fact that the collective farmer Petrunina, having a family of 5 people, can’t feed her and her two children left school in the 10th year of the Soviet regime due to lack of clothes and shoes ... there was nothing about this in the newspaper.


A number of very interesting statements, including those from young people ...


Well, it’s clear that bread began to be stolen by loaves of bread. Rather, as they stole, steal and continue ...

And here is a very interesting document on the deployment of the Stakhanov movement. My article on the Stakhanov movement has already been published on VO: “The trend is the highest labor productivity ...” (March 16, 2017), so there is no point in repeating it. But what’s interesting, this certificate clearly shows that very many workers were not at all happy with the successes of the Stakhanovites and opposed this "movement" in every way. And not only workers, by the way. And again, marriage - 50%, however, now it is already the fault of the specific named pests.


They say a / c tuned Soviet workers ...


And here the Stakhanovite was hunted down, the Stakhanovites were counted ...


And here the master himself explains what this movement will end for most workers. And ... wasn't he right? And most importantly - why put 100 piston rings in the warehouse when the plant, say, needs only 20 according to plan. There are engines for these 20, not for 100! It turns out a paradox - capitalizes aimlessly, without bringing any benefit. And if, say, you have to switch to a new type of ring, where to put the old ones? Write off in scrap metal? That is, it was possible and necessary to change the norms, but carefully, linking the planned nature of the economy and the possibility of production


And here is how the general “approvals” were organized.


Then it was necessary to report how many people participated and how many performed. Almost half of these reports are in the documents of the City Committee, so in this case, one is enough as a model


Some of the reports were compiled in such a hurry that they did not even have time to retype them! And in the end, all the speeches came down to what Boxer horse declared in the story “Animal Farm” by J. Orwell - “I will work even more!”

PS I think that it would be just wonderful if some VO visitors (well, not all the same they inject from the morning until the dark night) would visit their archives of the former OK CPSU and see what they have there. Now it’s not at all difficult, as well as working in a regular archive. There we have, how many people are looking for their pedigrees ... Under the same sauce, it’s quite possible to go to the OK archive or directly in the application and write: “I want to collect material for an article about our bright past!” Why not? Any research work on the site will be welcome!

Well, for those who are interested in precisely these documents, I give a link to a document from which all this is taken: Fund 37. Op.1. Units hr 629. Case No. 965 of the NKVD department and the city prosecutor's office. It began on January 3, 1937 and ended on November 7, 1937 (137 pages).

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Archival affairs. From “class alien” to “loss of party intuition”
Back to USSR. Mosaic of memory
By the wave of our memory
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  1. Gardamir
    Gardamir 3 February 2020 06: 00 New
    -3
    Well, someone is looking at the screen, so the author justifies himself. But if a person has established himself as anti-Soviet, then why can he be trusted? Moreover, all this recalls the end of the 80s. Then, too, everything was digging in the archives. And then the country collapsed. If, what after that, does not mean as a result of this. But after all, some on and off of such frills, then rising to high posts, remained Russophobia-anti-Soviet.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 39 New
      12
      Do not believe me, Gardamir. Believe in God! And here you just open your eyes and read. If it’s completely zapadlo, then you order the entire folder of these cases in the archive - there is a link. And you read, you read, you read ... It's simple.
      1. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 3 February 2020 08: 36 New
        13
        kalibr (Vyacheslav)
        Do not believe me, Gardamir. Believe in God! And here you just open your eyes and read. If it’s completely zapadlo, then you order the entire folder of these cases in the archive - there is a link. And you read, you read, you read ... It's simple.
        Yes, only now you read very selectively and what is beneficial for you at the moment, right? In the USSR, you read the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and I am sure you did it extremely sincerely, but now you are just as sincerely throwing mud at what you were strenuously glorifying 30 years ago. The truth is, the exclusively "noble" position in life of a "noble" person ?!
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 08: 45 New
          +1
          Where did you, Alexander, see the dirt? I did not write these documents, this is our history. It’s what it is ... At the end of the article it is written - go, find "yours" and write better. Who's in the way? Write to the archive - "Make a selection of materials glorifying the Soviet system." True, this work will have to be paid, but you will receive a "candy". It will be possible to print it ... All the boys will be happy.
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 3 February 2020 08: 54 New
            11
            kalibr (Vyacheslav)
            Where did you, Alexander, see the dirt?
            Everything in your article is presented just like dirt.
            Not I wrote these documents, this is our story. Oh, what is it ...
            Lying, and consciously. Not only is this in the archives, but you are trying to dig out, which is worse and smelly.
            At the end of the article it is written - go, find "yours" and write better. Who's in the way?
            Unlike you, I have work, I know you have no time to sit in the archives.
            All patsaki will be happy.
            As you veiledly insulted the local audience, however, you should not expect anything else from you.

            P.S. Write about the knights, you really succeed.
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 3 February 2020 09: 33 New
              +7
              Alexander Suvorov (Alexander Suvorov)
              As you veiledly insulted the local audience, however, you should not expect anything else from you.
              Alexander hi Shpakovsky in general sins with delusions of grandeur, for him there are only two opinions, his and not correct.
              In general, you are right, it would be better if he wrote about the knights.
              1. kalibr
                3 February 2020 13: 47 New
                -5
                You are mistaken Aleksey: the correct opinion is documented, and the wrong one is based on empty words. My right, because it is always based on documents.
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 4 February 2020 14: 38 New
                  +2
                  Quote: kalibr
                  My right, because it is always based on documents.

                  "the truth and nothing but the truth! but not all" wassat
                  or do you want to state that the successes of the Soviet government are not documented? belay
              2. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 4 February 2020 01: 18 New
                +1
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Alexander Suvorov (Alexander Suvorov)
                As you veiledly insulted the local audience, however, you should not expect anything else from you.
                Alexander hi Shpakovsky in general sins with delusions of grandeur, for him there are only two opinions, his and not correct.
                In general, you are right, it would be better if he wrote about the knights.

                Russophobes are not interested in knights. They need a bloody gebnya
            2. kalibr
              3 February 2020 10: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              P.S. Write about the knights, you really succeed.

              It seems to you so, because you do not know about the knights at all, but here it seems to you that you know, although you were not in any of the archives.
            3. kalibr
              3 February 2020 10: 02 New
              +4
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              Unlike you, I have work, I know you have no time to sit in the archives.

              Then rejoice that I have time.
            4. kalibr
              3 February 2020 10: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              Lying, and consciously. Not only is this in the archives, but you are trying to dig out, which is worse and smelly.

              Link to the folder in front of you. Order and see ... Why dig something. Everything lies on the surface. Once again - order ALL things from the folder and make sure ...
              1. Genry
                Genry 3 February 2020 16: 27 New
                +6
                Quote: kalibr
                Link to the folder in front of you. Order and see ...

                Well, for those who are interested in precisely these documents, I give a link to a document from which all this is taken: Fund 37. Op.1. Units hr 629. Case No. 965 of the NKVD department and the city prosecutor's office. It began on January 3, 1937 and ended on November 7, 1937 (137 pages).

                What is the title of the "case"?
                Such heterogeneous documents in one case? Someone tried as a Katyn affair?
                Or maybe these are documents on the boring case of Yezhov’s excesses?

                And the stamp "top secret" did not exist in 1937. Then there were still atavisms in names from tsarist Russia.
                1. kalibr
                  3 February 2020 18: 12 New
                  0
                  And do not guess. Interesting? Call the archive and find out what was, what was not. And why would anyone fake such a ge ... there all the boxes are clogged with them, including abortion of mares ...
                  1. Genry
                    Genry 3 February 2020 18: 28 New
                    +1
                    Quote: kalibr
                    And do not guess. Interesting? Call the archive and find out what was, what was not.

                    So what about the headline of the case? Specially omitted?
                    Yes, and somehow clamp the phone number.
                    1. kalibr
                      3 February 2020 20: 15 New
                      0
                      Are you completely illiterate? You can not type in the search engine: OFOPO GAPO of the Penza region. And everything will come to you there. Including the icon - CONTACTS, and there the address is: Penza, st. Dzerzhinsky, 7 and TELEPHONE - (841-2) 94-55-33. It seems that we have computer literacy at school. At the end of the article, all the data on the case. Do they also repeat separately?
                      1. Genry
                        Genry 4 February 2020 00: 44 New
                        +4
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Are you completely illiterate? You can not type in the search engine: OFOPO GAPO of the Penza region.

                        For some reason, you did not think of explicitly specifying the details, but all who became interested were the ones to blame.
                        Proper design of materials involves a list of all references to the source at the end of the work. Even schoolchildren are taught this.
                2. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 12 February 2020 08: 32 New
                  0
                  Quite a normal document. 4 Th. for the area is quite possible. That Khrushchev, yes, 40 thousand unfolding.
              2. Looking for
                Looking for 3 February 2020 17: 46 New
                +6
                that is, you confirm that you made a sample in order to provide only the negative sides of the Soviet government.?
                1. kalibr
                  3 February 2020 18: 07 New
                  0
                  And there are no others!
                  1. Sadam
                    Sadam 4 February 2020 00: 14 New
                    0
                    the site here is patriotic. we don’t perceive chernukha about pre-war Stalin, but we always take an example about post-war Stalin))
            5. fighter angel
              fighter angel 3 February 2020 10: 15 New
              10
              Yes, Alexander, you are absolutely right.
              As I expected earlier, Mr. Shpakovsky published another vile anti-Soviet article.
              You are absolutely right, Vyacheslav goes to the archives with the aim of "digging up" what is smelly and worse.
              I will never believe that all the old archives consist entirely of such stinkers.
              He says that "there is nothing to blame on the mirror if the face is crooked."
              And I will also answer with a proverb: "An animal with a patch will find dirt everywhere, and only dirt."


              P.S. And Vyacheslav is also good at writing more about the development of modelism ...
              1. Alexander Suvorov
                Alexander Suvorov 3 February 2020 10: 18 New
                +1
                fighter angel (Alex)
                And I will also answer with a proverb: "An animal with a patch will find dirt everywhere, and only dirt."
                Absolutely, that’s right off the tongue!
                P.S. And Vyacheslav is also good at writing more about the development of modelism ...
                And here I agree.
              2. kalibr
                3 February 2020 11: 06 New
                0
                Quote: fighter angel
                I will never believe that all the old archives consist entirely of such stinkers.

                It remains only to check for yourself ...
            6. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 3 February 2020 19: 03 New
              +2
              Do not demand the impossible from the teacher of Marxism-Leninism, who, in his own words, the collective farmers of the Kuibyshev region enlightened in the Kamasutra region.
              1. kalibr
                3 February 2020 20: 20 New
                +3
                Sergei! The situation is repeated with a certain Mordvin, who, having read my old material, forgot everything, mixed up, and began to reproach me with my grandfather as a Polish general. Then, however, he apologized at least well. You, too, mixed up and forgot everything, and look at the article too lazy. Otherwise, you would read that one of my fellow graduate students spoke about the Kama Sutra, but I had other topics. Human memory is imperfect. But an intelligent person can and should check what he writes if he does not hope for memory.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 3 February 2020 20: 25 New
                  -2
                  Come on, the Kama Sutra is also an introduction to world culture, naturally, I already forgot who was the enlightener on your collective farm there. I think if you didn’t go into social sciences and continue your activity in the field of modeling, as you wrote, on Penza TV, then there would be more benefit and less shit towards the USSR.
                  1. kalibr
                    3 February 2020 22: 12 New
                    0
                    If I knew where to fall, then the straw would have spread. I will answer in more detail while the computer considers the novelty. I was an idealist, like everyone else! He believed that ... the concern of the party and all that. And so he worked together with the inventor Kaye. We patented toys and received 80 p. for two. And they waited until our developments were accepted, they wrote to the factories. And it was clear to everyone ... why. And if I were not an idealist-modeler, I would make 2-4 applications a month. There are formal signs of the novelty of the toy and the gaming moment - if you please, the copyright certificate. And we would get 160 for each over the salary because toys are easy to make. For every r ... for a year, 40 patents, for 2 - 80 ... then 100. Then newspapers would write about us, he would broadcast in Moscow, I’m in Penza ... But ... how can this be It was? Not good! But it was necessary. There is an opportunity to take from this society, well, take it. Someone earns on the creation of the new, someone on the destruction of the old. And it is still unknown what is more important! I clearly explained?
                    1. Aviator_
                      Aviator_ 3 February 2020 22: 15 New
                      +2
                      All clear. There would be no overdoing, with destruction.
                      1. kalibr
                        4 February 2020 09: 15 New
                        +1
                        It is truth too. But the old is ALREADY destroyed! So a little more shit, a little less ... what's the difference? HIS ALREADY NO. Therefore, I do not understand such a reaction of many here ... To cherish the memory of a corpse ... is ridiculous and unwise. We must create the future!
            7. LeonidL
              LeonidL 4 February 2020 19: 49 New
              +3
              You are right that among the huge array of documents you can always find exactly those samples from which either confirm your position or help to bury your opponent. It all depends on how, what and at what angle to file. This skill is well mastered by falsifiers of history.
      2. Blacksmith 55
        Blacksmith 55 3 February 2020 09: 03 New
        14
        The first document mentions Kharkov and Zudkov. What was next with them? After all, the criticism is justified.
        Did they continue their work at the factory or somewhere in Siberia?
        People who criticize the authorities, the authorities have never loved, and do not like now, but times have changed.
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 09: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: Blacksmith 55
          The first document mentions Kharkov and Zudkov. What was next with them? After all, the criticism is justified.

          Too bad, but I can not answer your question. This is already in another archive. In the Archive OK VKP (B) there are no landings. It is here that if a person is caught stealing, embezzlement, pederasty, then his case is considered as a communist, he is expelled from the ranks, and it is also noted there that a criminal case has been instituted. And once excited, then he is planted. But such marks I saw only in relation to husbands, embezzlers and thieves.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 3 February 2020 07: 40 New
      -2
      Quote: Gardamir
      But if a person has established himself as anti-Soviet, then why should he can be trusted?

      Do not and should not believe to nobody and nothing, including newspaper, etc., by doing so, you can become an involuntary hostage to manipulation.

      But the original documents (the basis of the basics) can and should be trusted - this is a mirror of what was happening. And already based on them, you can make own opinion, IMHO.

      Thanks to the author, we can read, in addition to the officialdom of that time, what was hidden by this officialdom, but constituted the real everyday reality of people living then: hunger, total NOT freedom, lies about the "accessibility" of education, about the actual existence of inequality, about millions of "enemies" people, etc. ... But child labor was also mercilessly and massively exploited - and to the detriment of schools (this is not about war)!

      The value of the above documents is that they reflected the real life of a particular one city, and there are hundreds of such cities, hundreds of thousands of these droplets, and the life of the whole country has developed and it turned out that:
      Author: "the shortcomings, how they accumulated over the years, accumulated, and then quantity turned into quality, and 1991 came".


      What struck me was the report on the rallies held: he showed how the authorities were AFRAID of his people, was afraid that he might think and understand something wrong: for this he constantly drove him to rallies and political information and drove him into, drove him into aggressive lying propaganda (everything turned out to be a lie, it turned out) ....

      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, we are waiting for the continuation! hi
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 3 February 2020 07: 57 New
        27
        Quote: Olgovich
        What struck me was the report on the rallies held: he showed how the authorities were AFRAID of his people, was afraid that he might think and understand something wrong: for this he constantly drove him to rallies and political information and drove him into, drove into him an aggressive deceit propaganda


        Are you not talking about 2020 now?
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 4 February 2020 11: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: sergo1914
          Are you not talking about 2020 now?

          Is the current government afraid?
          1. sergo1914
            sergo1914 4 February 2020 11: 08 New
            0
            Quote: Serg65
            Quote: sergo1914
            Are you not talking about 2020 now?

            Is the current government afraid?


            Well, he plans to defend himself, and very toughly.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 4 February 2020 11: 25 New
              0
              Quote: sergo1914
              Well, he plans to defend himself, and very toughly.

              Well, any government plans to defend itself, there Yanukovych also planned, but drifted at the last moment, I really hope that Putin will not drift!
      2. Alexander Suvorov
        Alexander Suvorov 3 February 2020 09: 07 New
        +4
        Olgovich (Andrey)
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, we are waiting for the continuation!
        A cuckoo praises a rooster for praising a cuckoo ... laughing laughing laughing
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 09: 55 New
          +6
          Continuation, Alexander, does not depend on praise or blasphemy. It just will be anyway.
          1. Alexander Suvorov
            Alexander Suvorov 3 February 2020 09: 58 New
            +2
            kalibr (Vyacheslav)
            Continuation, Alexander, does not depend on praise or blasphemy. It just will be anyway.
            Vyacheslav, but somehow I had no doubt that the continuation would be. In the ability to find dirt in the archives you have no equal.
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 11: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Alexander Suvorov
              In the ability to find dirt in the archives you have no equal.

              Thanks for the compliment! In any work, the main skill and professionalism.
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 3 February 2020 10: 08 New
            10
            Speaking of sequels. Write about the 90s.
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 11: 03 New
              +6
              So, Gardamir. I can write about the 90s, only on the basis of personal impressions. Documents on them have not yet been submitted to the archive, and this is exactly what interests you. My daughter defended a thesis on the development of the PR system in Russia. This is 1989 - 2000. So for the 90s there was data only from the current archive. And getting into the current is very difficult. Even harder than the OK archive. Now the materials are just being handed over and processed. But there is no access to them.
              1. Gardamir
                Gardamir 3 February 2020 11: 15 New
                +1
                Yes, everyone has different personal impressions.
            2. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 3 February 2020 12: 01 New
              +7
              And what is interesting to you about the 90s ... they themselves lived at this time, they are already conscious age ..
              1. Gardamir
                Gardamir 3 February 2020 12: 21 New
                +1
                I’m interested in the author’s point of view, but as he noted, the archives are still closed on this topic, so the question is settled.
                As for my opinion about the 90s, neither white nor red will like it.
                1. Andrey VOV
                  Andrey VOV 3 February 2020 12: 23 New
                  +6
                  for me, the 90s are painted in red and black ... and only 99 bright spots, the son was born))))
                  1. Gardamir
                    Gardamir 3 February 2020 12: 30 New
                    +2
                    Well this is personal, in such cases you forget about all the political colors.
                    1. Andrey VOV
                      Andrey VOV 3 February 2020 12: 32 New
                      +4
                      I was not up to politics, honestly ... the fruits of this policy drank the most nostrils ...
            3. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 3 February 2020 13: 10 New
              0
              Write about the 90s.

              This is the Congress and the Draft, Gardamir. Which is not surprising. The author, especially for you - the militants gave not just a link to the documents, you are given SCANS of documents. And in response - "anti-Soviet, pouring mud." And after that you consider yourself smart and thinking? Are you also talking about others?
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 4 February 2020 11: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: Okolotochny
                And in response - "anti-Soviet, pouring dirt"

                But what about! If Shpakovsky destroys the bright dream of the afterlife ... pah ... sorry ... about Communism !!! And who is he after that? That's right, Trotskyist, Ugandan intelligence agent, traitor and wrecker !!! bully
                Welcome Alex! hi
                1. fuxila
                  fuxila 4 February 2020 16: 20 New
                  0
                  "Shpakovsky destroys the bright dream of an afterlife .."
                  And it’s not about the afterlife, but whatever earthly paradise life called communism, and it came according to the predictions of the great guru Nikita Khrushchev back in 1980, since then, if you have not noticed, we live in an earthly paradise.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 5 February 2020 07: 02 New
                    +1
                    Quote: fuxila
                    since then, if you have not noticed, we live in an earthly paradise.

                    what And I think that this life has become more fun ... but it turns out to be heaven! laughing
    3. mr.ZinGer
      mr.ZinGer 3 February 2020 07: 56 New
      +8
      Russophobe and anti-adviser, parasite and alcoholic, truant and scammer.
      Mr. Shpakovsky, do you like jazz !?
      1. kalibr
        3 February 2020 08: 46 New
        11
        I love, but what about!
      2. Chervonny
        Chervonny 3 February 2020 10: 53 New
        13
        Quote: mr.ZinGer
        Do you like jazz !?

        How can you not love jazz! But can Utesov not be loved? I understood what you mean and what you wanted to say.yes I just want to say that jazz is good
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 3 February 2020 18: 55 New
          +7
          Quote: Red
          I just want to say that jazz is good

          Jazz - Mazda! Rock is forever! laughing
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 3 February 2020 19: 57 New
            +3
            Quote: HanTengri

            Jazz - Mazda! Rock is forever! laughing

            Rock is based on the classics of German composers - Bach with Beethoven - this is forever laughing
            1. Evil543
              Evil543 3 February 2020 20: 23 New
              +3
              And if udo with kipelovym cross? good
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 3 February 2020 23: 05 New
                +7
                Quote: Evil543
                And if udo with kipelovym cross? good

                This will make amphetamine with moonshine - strong, vigorous, but does not stick laughing
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 3 February 2020 23: 16 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  This will make amphetamine with moonshine - strong, vigorous, but does not stick

                  Exactly! good drinks
              2. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 3 February 2020 23: 28 New
                +5
                What if? The song Calm, together sang, Udo sang in Russian.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 3 February 2020 23: 49 New
                  +6
                  He needs Kipelov to sing along - I'm free!
                  - parole
                  - like a bird ...
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 4 February 2020 00: 03 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    He needs Kipelov to sing along - I'm free!
                    - parole
                    - like a bird ...

                    Just some kind of chanson!
                    "I am free, on parole, like a bird!" laughing
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 4 February 2020 00: 05 New
                      +6
                      Here))
                      German antifa + Russian informal = Chanson
                      1. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 4 February 2020 12: 30 New
                        +3
                        Yeah, only Lindemann with the clip "Pussy" is missing)))
            2. Hantengri
              Hantengri 3 February 2020 22: 55 New
              +4
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Rock is based on the classics of German composers - Bach with Beethoven - this is forever

              "Bach is the head! Beethoven is the head too!" (c) (almost). I’ll say terrible: Wagner is also a head! laughing And Grieg ...
          2. Chervonny
            Chervonny 3 February 2020 22: 40 New
            +9
            Quote: HanTengri
            Quote: Red
            I just want to say that jazz is good

            Jazz - Mazda! Rock is forever! laughing

            Punks - Hoi! Kish forever! wink
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 3 February 2020 22: 45 New
              +7
              Quote: Red
              Punks - Hoi! Kish forever!

              Only "Gas sector", only hardcore! laughing (Although Kishi, of course, are also nice guys!)
              1. Chervonny
                Chervonny 3 February 2020 22: 50 New
                11
                Roughly speaking, I grew up on aluminum cucumbers with collective farm punk hi
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 3 February 2020 23: 07 New
                  +9
                  Java, Java, I took for free ...))
                  1. Hantengri
                    Hantengri 3 February 2020 23: 22 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Java, Java, I took for free ...))

                    "Dirty, sweaty, torn, smelly socks!" (C))))
                2. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 3 February 2020 23: 19 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Red
                  Roughly speaking, I grew up on aluminum cucumbers with collective farm punk

                  And "Kashchei the immortal"? This is simply an imperishable!
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 3 February 2020 23: 46 New
                    +6
                    ... Vanya piled on me today, but there weren’t many of them, it’s obvious that they have customs - kick straight ...
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 3 February 2020 23: 52 New
                      +7
                      Me, now, Ivan rolled these ...
                      I didn’t even think enough!
                      It can be seen that it’s so customary with them -
                      Kick right on ..... hi
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 3 February 2020 23: 54 New
                        +5
                        Well, yes ... with memory, everything is worse))
                        Now, in addition to the refrain, I don’t even remember the Core of Louse .. laughing
    4. savage1976
      savage1976 3 February 2020 11: 39 New
      +8
      So disprove the author with the provision of scans from archival documents? Spend work like a real communist for the benefit of the revolutionary movement! Weak? Tanchiki are waiting. But offending others is so easy. And probably write anonymous letters too.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 3 February 2020 13: 12 New
        +3
        I support. For anonymous letters, not sure, but wrote. And at the same time I was satisfied)))
  2. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 3 February 2020 06: 03 New
    21
    Archival affairs: NKVD on peasants and Stakhanovites

    Not even ten lives will be enough to get acquainted with all the affairs. In the personal life of each of us, there were “well-wishers” who served the heads of their accounts of our “seditious” thoughts, words and deeds. It was because of these mediocrities that our personal plans collapsed, relations with those around us deteriorated, and life broke. And all this was done “walking” in the course of life, confirming the truth of the words that:
    IF A PERSON STANDS OUT ON THE GENERAL GRAY BACKGROUND, THE “GRAY” WILL NOT LEAVE IT QUIETLY.
    hi
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 39 New
      +8
      Quote: ROSS 42
      IF A PERSON STANDS OUT ON THE GENERAL GRAY BACKGROUND, THE “GRAY” WILL NOT LEAVE IT QUIETLY.

      That's it!
  3. Far B
    Far B 3 February 2020 06: 27 New
    24
    I somehow did not understand the author. He presents the cited archival materials as something discrediting the Soviet regime. And what is the vice ?! Is the head of the city NKVD reporting to the secretary of the city committee on the identified shortcomings? But this proves that the city NKVD worked and revealed these very shortcomings.
    That there were failures in the propaganda work? In economic activity? “So where are they not, such shortcomings?” The main thing is that they were revealed, and information went up about them. Surely, in order for some measures to be taken.
    That they reported on the number of people who participated in the rallies? So in those days, sorry, in the USSR was an ideology. Which now seems to be not there (according to the Constitution), but reports with the same numbers are still written and transmitted upstairs.
    In general, the feeling is that the USSR is bad for the author only because he is the USSR.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 41 New
      -4
      Michael! Tighten your brain. The bad news is that they were hiding from everyone! In the country of the dictatorship of the proletariat. Even from him. How can you dictate if you don't know a damn thing.
      1. Far B
        Far B 3 February 2020 07: 55 New
        10
        Not all and not from all. You yourself point out that you wrote about a number of cases in the newspaper Stalin's banner. A number of other cases are simply not intended for a wide range of people. For a number of other, it was the law enforcement agencies that had to react. And no matter how hegemon a worker may be, what can an ordinary collective farmer do with a collective farm director who ships grain into holey sacks? And the proletarian - what can he do about the negligent attitude of the plant management? Only signal by authority. What the "hegemon" did is clearly seen from the documents you cited (speeches of the Stakhanovites). And the authorities have already taken measures. I don't see anything special that they did it in a sov.class mode. Now such a bar may not be installed, but a lot of this passage is in secret mode.
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 07: 57 New
          -8
          That's right, Mihavil, that's right! Everything was great! And the proletarians signaled, and took measures ... And we still live in the USSR. All was good!
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 3 February 2020 15: 03 New
            +3
            You want to say now everything is fine with us and there are no problems? Putin stagnation does not bother? And yes, what is happening with capitalism is not scary? Last time ended in war.
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 22: 01 New
              -3
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Last time ended in war.
              Reply

              The last time and today are different things. Now people have become smarter ... Not all, of course, but those who make decisions.
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 4 February 2020 00: 06 New
                +3
                Cleverer? Are you sure about that? For me so pretty stupid. Different things in only one. Now mankind really has a super weapon to use which is fraught. And so it is. Another crisis of capitalism, monopolization, the struggle for markets, protective duties, trade wars, minor military conflicts in third countries. In general, pray that the world economy will quietly be blown away to the next starting position and not explode by another world war.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 4 February 2020 01: 34 New
                  -1
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Cleverer? Are you sure about that? For me so pretty stupid. Different things in only one. Now at ....
                  the ruling class, a sense of permissiveness and alternate airfields, stupidity intensifies, they will say one thing superfluous, then the other, not to mention business .....
  4. Same lech
    Same lech 3 February 2020 06: 37 New
    +8
    Curious documents ... thanks to the author for the links. hi
  5. svp67
    svp67 3 February 2020 06: 41 New
    25
    Honestly, I was once again convinced that the NKVD was working, not chatting, and every "penny" given to him gave a return ...
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 51 New
      +4
      So, Sergei, the documents are good, which allow us to draw not one conclusion, but many. Diverse. And that they worked well, and that there was not enough food, and that there was no swelling from hunger. The fact of a good job caught my eye too. Therefore, a color photo with a frame from the film appeared. But ... for some reason we were not saved in the end by the good work of the "organs".
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 3 February 2020 15: 35 New
      -5
      "The NKVD worked, not chatted" ///
      ---
      Oh, he’d better just chatting ... sad
      1. svp67
        svp67 3 February 2020 15: 39 New
        +5
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Oh, he’d better just chatting ...

        No, I do not agree. The NKVD is just a tool. But how to use it depends on the political leadership.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 February 2020 15: 47 New
          -6
          The Gestapo is also just a tool.
          But to use it differently than it was used - that is, for criminal purposes - is impossible. The Gestapo is, by definition, a criminal instrument. Therefore, it is better that the Gestapo does not exist at all. Clear?
          1. svp67
            svp67 3 February 2020 16: 07 New
            +7
            Quote: voyaka uh
            The Gestapo is, by definition, a criminal instrument. Therefore, it is better that the Gestapo does not exist at all. Clear?

            No. Since the Verdict of the International Military Tribunal declared the Gestapo, SS and SD organizations, USED for criminal purposes.
            Do you understand the meaning of the Russian word "used"?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 3 February 2020 16: 23 New
              -6
              Der Internationale Militärgerichtshof in Nürnberg erklärte die Gestapo in seinem Urteil vom 01.10.1946/XNUMX/XNUMX zur kriminellen Vereinigung. "
              The International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg declared the Gestapo a criminal organization in its decision of 01.10.1946/XNUMX/XNUMX
              1. svp67
                svp67 3 February 2020 16: 26 New
                +7
                Quote: voyaka uh
                The International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg declared the Gestapo a criminal organization in its decision of 01.10.1946/XNUMX/XNUMX

                Like all SSs, however, in the court’s verdict, it’s not the organizations themselves that are declared criminal, but groups of people, and the signs of inclusion and exclusion in these groups are clearly indicated (high positions, proven and conscious participation in atrocities, personal involvement). The lawyers of the Nuremberg Tribunal separately emphasized that criminal guilt is still individual and mass punishment should be avoided if possible. Now it was no longer possible to convict a person of formal affiliation with the Gestapo or the SS - additional proceedings were required.

                Source: Why the Nuremberg court refused to recognize the Gestapo and the SS as criminal organizations
                © Russian Seven russian7.ru
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 4 February 2020 14: 24 New
                  +1
                  You know, it’s good that you wrote the source. I have no doubt that it was in such people that you could find the absurdity you mentioned.
      2. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 3 February 2020 18: 04 New
        +5
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Oh, he’d better just chatting ...

        Do you recommend the same thing to Israeli structures?
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 4 February 2020 14: 25 New
          0
          What are you talking about? Mass executions, exile of millions of its citizens - does Mossad practice this too?
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 4 February 2020 15: 28 New
            +2
            The fact that tired of the unwanted whining of very intelligent emigrants.
  6. for
    for 3 February 2020 06: 51 New
    +8
    Keyword SELECTION of documents.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 53 New
      0
      Igor, order an entire folder of documents (there is a link) from beginning to end and you will have a complete picture of events, not a selection.
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 3 February 2020 06: 57 New
    +7
    Well, someone, looking at the screen, of course, blamed the author for all the shortcomings he saw there. That is, the selection is “not that” (one-sided), and the filing of photographic material is hacky (and professional photography costs money, unless someone wants to sponsor it for me?), In a word, “it's not that.”
    The author has forgotten about the claims to his comments, which are almost always biased, and often frankly stupid.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      and often frankly stupid.

      Very true about the comments of many commentators.
  8. nikvic46
    nikvic46 3 February 2020 07: 07 New
    +6
    Not a single society is insured against this. If tolitarianism reigns in it. When "people support in a single impulse" sound, then write wasted.
  9. Talgarets
    Talgarets 3 February 2020 07: 13 New
    +2
    The documents are interesting, but my impression is that there is not enough context. For example, how the situation developed in the first document. Have you planted or encouraged someone?
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 07: 46 New
      +1
      And here Michael, the main problem. In party documents this is not. This is in the documents of the NKVD. But I don’t have access there. And if it were. Can you imagine the amount of work: I downloaded in OFOPO GAPO, there to find, then there in another archive .. and all in order to find out that they put some ...
      1. Talgarets
        Talgarets 3 February 2020 08: 24 New
        +8
        In my opinion, then the value of the document is leveled. It is unclear whether he is a routine report of the meeting or the basis for initiating proceedings ...
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 08: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: Talgarets
          In my opinion, then the value of the document is leveled. It is unclear whether he is a routine report of the meeting or the basis for initiating proceedings ...

          Yes, but there is a limit to opportunities and desire. And then ... after all, someone has never seen this either.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 February 2020 09: 46 New
          0
          Quote: Talgarets
          In my opinion, then the value of the document is leveled. It is unclear whether he is a routine report of the meeting or the basis for initiating proceedings.

          Look at the previous material of the author (the link is in this article) on the same archives: on the basis of such denunciations, meetings of the city committee were held and there already are:
          1. heard
          2. Decided.

          And there, in the resolution there is, for example: " instructs The prosecutor general to institute criminal proceedings and hold exponential process.

          Some kind of public organization ORDERS ... state authority, and even indicates as to blame! request
          1. Talgarets
            Talgarets 3 February 2020 11: 11 New
            +1
            Must see
      2. Karen
        Karen 3 February 2020 08: 57 New
        +6
        Quote: kalibr
        This is in the documents of the NKVD. But I don’t have access there.

        Well, a familiar person got the right of access to the archives of the Chekists 50 years ago only for three days, and only because he worked for a long time as a referent for the first secretary ... :)
  10. Sandy
    Sandy 3 February 2020 07: 36 New
    +9
    Well, just like a drop of water you can think of the presence of seas and oceans, and with these little bits of information you can fully imagine the state of affairs throughout the country. Somewhere more, somewhere less ...
    - Is it about the USSR 37th or about now?
  11. Free wind
    Free wind 3 February 2020 07: 48 New
    13
    Dear author, everyone sees in his own way. The first documents of the article are reported to the first persons of the region about the plight of large, single parents, There are no proposals for executions and landings. At the same time, it is clear that many helped with the products. At the same time, there may have been pests. more precisely sure that they were. Let us assume in transport methods of decommissioning a wagon and a small trolley. Let’s smear garlic on the cover of the ignition distributor (distributor) in a car, after 2-3 hours a breakdown is provided. Vinegar, 10 grams pour into the crankcase, into the engine oil, the engine can not be restored. Sugar a teaspoon in a gas tank, the entire fuel system flush a lot of ways. On the railway as well, maybe someone remembers sewing needles on rails in severe frosts, it seems like the rails burst when a locomotive hits a needle, I don’t know if this can happen or not, but the crawlers found needles on the rails. The needles to the rails were fastened on drooling, spat on the needle and on its rail, do not tear it in the cold.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 3 February 2020 08: 10 New
      -7
      Quote: Free Wind
      At the same time, there may have been pests. more precisely sure that they were

      In my opinion, there were no pests, of course, but not out of class motives.
      It's like in Brothers Karamazov, Smerdyakov - who put needles in dog food, and enjoyed it.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 3 February 2020 08: 54 New
        10
        Quote: bober1982
        In my opinion, there were no pests, of course, but not out of class motives.

        What is the difference of which? Wrecking, from the presence / absence of class motives, wrecking does not cease to be.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 3 February 2020 08: 57 New
          -3
          Quote: HanTengri
          What is the difference of which?

          This is already from the field of psychiatry, but not wrecking.
  12. Plantagenet
    Plantagenet 3 February 2020 07: 50 New
    +6
    “- I lived in Arras,” says Vidoc, “when the whistle began. I saw one woman there, I will not forget her age, citizen Lebo. She was a simple nun in the monastery of Viviere, when the Jacobins forcibly extradited her as a curator of Nuville. It turned out to be soul mates. She decided who the enemies of the Republic were; he was responsible for paying for their sins with death. I witnessed how they executed Monsieur Wyupont for the sins of his parrot. Apparently, citizen Lebo overheard the parrot shouting: "Long live the king!" Not even a week had passed before the owner of the parrot lost his head. The bird itself was spared, given to this very citizen for re-education. She was probably still re-educating him when they came after her. ”

    Louis Bayard Black Tower
  13. Nitochkin
    Nitochkin 3 February 2020 08: 01 New
    +1
    It is disgusting to read such a Shpakovsky. Having found a piece of "dung" in a heap of "pearls", he himself relishes the smell and taste. So also drags to the public.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 08: 30 New
      +1
      You spoke well about a piece of manure in a heap of pearls. But ... answer one question: do we live in the USSR? Yes or no?
      1. Nitochkin
        Nitochkin 3 February 2020 08: 46 New
        +5
        Quote: kalibr
        You spoke well about a piece of manure in a heap of pearls. But ... answer one question: do we live in the USSR? Yes or no?

        The USSR was an attempt, and not a bad attempt, to change society for the better. Unfortunately, the mercantile human nature, the fruits of which you relish with such ecstasy, did not allow this to be done. There is no such magic wand, by wave of which, it is possible to change people's consciousness for the better in an instant. They tried to build with the human material inherited from tsarism by the way that it was. It did not work, unfortunately. At first, the unfinished Trotskyists seized power, and then, on their shoulders, the liberals you love.
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 09: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: Nitochkin
          The USSR was an attempt, and not a bad attempt, to change society for the better. Unfortunately, the mercantile human nature, the fruits of which you relish with such ecstasy, did not allow this to be done. There is no such magic wand, by wave of which, it is possible to change people's consciousness for the better in an instant. They tried to build with the human material inherited from tsarism by the way that it was. It did not work, unfortunately.

          Totally agree with you. But the question now is: find out in detail how and why it did not work out. And make sure that disasters of this order are not repeated. To do this, you need to know a lot and be able to.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 February 2020 10: 47 New
          -1
          Quote: Nitochkin
          attempt to change society for the better.

          And this:
          USSR Prosecutor General Vyshinsky about top managers countries and parties: “Scum, stinky patal, dung, fetid heap of garbage, filthy dogs, damned reptile, scorched crooks, vile creatures, crooks, bandits, arrogant, despicable adventurers»

          WAY -to this "best"?

          А Millions of victims of hunger, millions of peasant exiles (MILLION CHILDREN deported!), millions of repressed, hundreds of thousands shot during year 37g-38, island cannibals Nazino, the roar "Glory to the Yagoda!", "Death to the Yagoda!", the endless newspaper LIES, etc. - is this also the WAY to ... "better"?

          And what is this "path" on which millions of beneficiaries ... disappear? And for whom, then, everything ?! AND WHERE is this in the WORLD, even in the wildest capital-th country - was THIS ?!

          You think these mentioned millions of CITIZENS of the country wanted to live less than yours ?! Or, if you are alive, then everything was fine? But how are they, huh?

          And in heap of manure you get reading:
          Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU. June 1957
          Verbatim report *
          No. П2500 June 22-29, 1957


          There ALL the top of the party and country (Molotov, Kananovich, Malenkov, Shelepin, Voroshilov, Khrushchev, Zhukov, Eremenko, etc., etc. - mixed each other with so dirty , SUCH about each other and about each told that haste, disgust and horror takes!

          It turned out: ALL listened to each other (to the First Secretary!), ALL informed each other, ALL hated each other and were afraid at the same time, trying to destroy before the other, ALL sent to death their comrades-in-arms and hundreds of thousands of citizens - without doubting that they are .. innocent, ALL pests and spies ....
          It is enough to spend two days reading this source and the picture is completely clear: that was and why it happened...

          So the proportions of manure and pearls are inverse ...
          1. Nitochkin
            Nitochkin 3 February 2020 13: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Quote: Nitochkin
            attempt to change society for the better.

            And this:
            USSR Prosecutor General Vyshinsky about top managers countries and parties: “Scum, stinky patal, dung, fetid heap of garbage, filthy dogs, damned reptile, scorched crooks, vile creatures, crooks, bandits, arrogant, despicable adventurers»

            WAY -to this "best"?

            А Millions of victims of hunger, millions of peasant exiles (MILLION CHILDREN deported!), millions of repressed, hundreds of thousands shot during year 37g-38, island cannibals Nazino, the roar "Glory to the Yagoda!", "Death to the Yagoda!", the endless newspaper LIES, etc. - is this also the WAY to ... "better"?

            And what is this "path" on which millions of beneficiaries ... disappear? And for whom, then, everything ?! AND WHERE is this in the WORLD, even in the wildest capital-th country - was THIS ?!

            You think these mentioned millions of CITIZENS of the country wanted to live less than yours ?! Or, if you are alive, then everything was fine? But how are they, huh?

            And in heap of manure you get reading:
            Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU. June 1957
            Verbatim report *
            No. П2500 June 22-29, 1957


            There ALL the top of the party and country (Molotov, Kananovich, Malenkov, Shelepin, Voroshilov, Khrushchev, Zhukov, Eremenko, etc., etc. - mixed each other with so dirty , SUCH about each other and about each told that haste, disgust and horror takes!

            It turned out: ALL listened to each other (to the First Secretary!), ALL informed each other, ALL hated each other and were afraid at the same time, trying to destroy before the other, ALL sent to death their comrades-in-arms and hundreds of thousands of citizens - without doubting that they are .. innocent, ALL pests and spies ....
            It is enough to spend two days reading this source and the picture is completely clear: that was and why it happened...

            So the proportions of manure and pearls are inverse ...

            Olgovich, aren’t you tired of swinging monarchist cowards yet?
            In what happened to Russia, the direct fault of the Romanovs. You really have to work, count how many souls they ruined in 300 years. And why did they do it? Thinking of the good of your people? How so. They began their dynasty with betrayal and blood, and ended the same. They themselves perished, and they nearly dragged the country behind them.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 3 February 2020 13: 57 New
              -6
              Quote: Nitochkin

              Olgovich, aren’t you tired of swinging monarchist cowards yet?

              Do not talk nonsense, but respond to direct specific accusations, lover of the "best" lol ways (in which, somehow, there was no place for MILLIONS of citizens.).

              Ч
              Quote: Nitochkin
              In what happened to Russia, the direct fault of the Romanovs. You really work hard, count how many souls they ruined in 300 years.

              You have to understand the account of these "ruined souls", you know? lol
              So announce them, liar! lol

              The score to the lovers of the "best" way has long been known and this tens of millions person from gr. war, famine, dispossession, squandering, collectivization, exile and hundreds of thousands of executions.

              WHERE else in the world is SUCH it, huh ?!

              Call it, 1,2,3... a connoisseur of the ways!
              Quote: Nitochkin
              And why did they do it? Thinking of the good of your people? How so.

              On the whole, yes: under Nicholas, people grew by FIVE times in 24 years, received FREEDOM, ELECTIONS, PROSPECTS.

              YOU brought him to the Russian Cross (extinction), deprived of freedom of elections, parties, speech, conscience, press, assembly, and Russia itself was returned to the borders of the 17th century.

              It's just FACTS: chop them on your forehead, finally
              !
              And yours, yes:
              Quote: Nitochkin
              Sami gone and the country almost dragged off.


              PS Read the transcript already June 1957 Plenum Central Committee of the Communist Party of your party? No? Are you afraid Scared right! yes lol

              1. Nitochkin
                Nitochkin 3 February 2020 15: 25 New
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Nitochkin

                Olgovich, aren’t you tired of swinging monarchist cowards yet?

                Do not talk nonsense, but respond to direct specific accusations, lover of the "best" lol ways (in which, somehow, there was no place for MILLIONS of citizens.).

                Ч
                Quote: Nitochkin
                In what happened to Russia, the direct fault of the Romanovs. You really work hard, count how many souls they ruined in 300 years.

                You have to understand the account of these "ruined souls", you know? lol
                So announce them, liar! lol

                The score to the lovers of the "best" way has long been known and this tens of millions person from gr. war, famine, dispossession, squandering, collectivization, exile and hundreds of thousands of executions.

                WHERE else in the world is SUCH it, huh ?!

                Call it, 1,2,3... a connoisseur of the ways!
                Quote: Nitochkin
                And why did they do it? Thinking of the good of your people? How so.

                On the whole, yes: under Nicholas, people grew by FIVE times in 24 years, received FREEDOM, ELECTIONS, PROSPECTS.

                YOU brought him to the Russian Cross (extinction), deprived of freedom of elections, parties, speech, conscience, press, assembly, and Russia itself was returned to the borders of the 17th century.

                It's just FACTS: chop them on your forehead, finally
                !
                And yours, yes:
                Quote: Nitochkin
                Sami gone and the country almost dragged off.


                PS Read the transcript already June 1957 Plenum Central Committee of the Communist Party of your party? No? Are you afraid Scared right! yes lol

                Olgovich, no matter how you fight in monarchical ecstasy, you cannot mold the saints out of these "kings".
                "In general, yes: under Nicholas the people grew a half times in 24 years, received FREEDOM, ELECTIONS, PROSPECTS." - and where is it all? The First World War, the collapse of the country, turmoil, civil war - this is the result of the rule of this pseudo-dynasty. All this blood is on them.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 4 February 2020 12: 24 New
                  0
                  Quote: Nitochkin
                  Olgovich, no matter how you fight in monarchical ecstasy, you cannot mold the saints out of these "kings".

                  History has fashioned: they, with the Russian people, have built the largest country in the WORLD — with a fast-growing population, with a fast-growing economy, and a great Russian culture.
                  Quote: Nitochkin
                  and where is it all? the collapse of the country, turmoil, civil war - this is the result of the reign of this pseudo-dynasty. All that blood lies on them

                  YOUR lies blood and a SEA of blood: civil war, unprecedented famines in the world, unprecedented executions in the world, unprecedented exile of a million children and millions of peasants.

                  Reject - able? No? Nobody can..


                  Until YOUR this was not in memory! Chop on the nose-knot!
        3. kalibr
          3 February 2020 21: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Nitochkin
          At first, the unfinished Trotskyists seized power, and then, on their shoulders, the liberals you love.

          Under the dictatorship of the proletariat and the party, armed with the ideas of Marx-Lenin, Stalin ... and such a fiasco. Ah ah! So something was amiss in the Danish kingdom ...
          1. Igoresha
            Igoresha 4 February 2020 17: 11 New
            +2
            unviable system it was
  14. Nitochkin
    Nitochkin 3 February 2020 08: 31 New
    +1
    Mr. Shpakovsky, what are your real motives? Why do you hate the USSR? You are intentionally looking only for chernukha and you are pulling it into the light of day. Given your level of education, you can confidently say that you are doing this on purpose. For what purpose?
    Answer this question. And how should it be perfect in your opinion? Under the kings it was ideal, and maybe now, under the liberals?
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 08: 49 New
      +1
      First answer my question asked before. Then I will answer yours!
      1. Nitochkin
        Nitochkin 3 February 2020 08: 50 New
        -2
        Quote: kalibr
        First answer my question asked before. Then I will answer yours!

        You can not answer. Consider that these were rhetorical questions to a clear anti-adviser.
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 09: 03 New
          +2
          Here is Nitochkin - all of you "homo sovieticus" are like that. The main thing is to blurt out, to hang a label, and how to honestly answer the simplest question, so immediately "wag". What are you afraid of? By the way, I would answer you. You see, I answer everyone honestly. So answer you too.
          1. Nitochkin
            Nitochkin 3 February 2020 09: 16 New
            -4
            Quote: kalibr
            Here is Nitochkin - all of you "homo sovieticus" are like that. The main thing is to blurt out, to hang a label, and how to honestly answer the simplest question, so immediately "wag". What are you afraid of? By the way, I would answer you. You see, I answer everyone honestly. So answer you too.

            Blurt out ?! To call an anti-adviser an anti-adviser is to blurt out ?!
            You do not consider that time in the aggregate of factors, you look for the lowest, vile and wave it, trying to attract as much attention as possible. You are ready to bury the history of the USSR in Chernukha so that the Kremlin stars are not visible. You would have published on Polish sites, fans would be unlimited.
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 09: 43 New
              +4
              No hysteria. Just answer my question and that’s it. All documents are in front of you. There is a link to them at the end of the article. You can order in the archive a copy of the entire folder for the whole year. And copies of similar folders for other years. You can order a set of materials praising the achievements of the USSR, who are against. True, all this costs money. But here, after all, money is not the main thing, but the principle, is it?
              1. Nitochkin
                Nitochkin 3 February 2020 12: 30 New
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                No hysteria. Just answer my question and that’s it. All documents are in front of you. There is a link to them at the end of the article. You can order in the archive a copy of the entire folder for the whole year. And copies of similar folders for other years. You can order a set of materials praising the achievements of the USSR, who are against. True, all this costs money. But here, after all, money is not the main thing, but the principle, is it?

                Ha, hysterical. Mr. Shpakovsky, do not stoop to fantasies.
                Your question: "Do we live in the USSR? Yes or no?"
                The answer is obvious, isn't it? Or are you waiting for me to answer "Yes"?
                Well, what is the question, so is the answer. My answer: "Yes, we live in the USSR".
                About the achievements. There is no need to order anything. You can still feel with your hands, not everyone has been destroyed and sold. But the fact that you yourself exist is an achievement of the USSR. Even if it was already a shadow of the USSR, which was before the revisionists came to power, led by Khrushchev.
                And now you spend time and money searching for chernukha in the archives and publish only chernukha in the USSR.
                1. kalibr
                  3 February 2020 13: 38 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Nitochkin
                  My answer: "Yes, we live in the USSR".

                  And this is the clinic!
                  1. Nitochkin
                    Nitochkin 3 February 2020 15: 18 New
                    -1
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Quote: Nitochkin
                    My answer: "Yes, we live in the USSR".

                    And this is the clinic!

                    Balm for the soul, yes, print another clinic?
                    You asked a stupid question about the existence of something that already, soon as 30 years old, hasn’t, and are waiting for an answer to it? Do you distinguish sarcasm? On manic desire to delve into the archives, looking for chernukha, relish this in his articles - I should have doubted your adequacy. But I do not think that you are inadequate, you are doing this work to denigrate the USSR intentionally and for some reason. And God will judge you, Mr. Shpakovsky, for do not spit in the well.
                    1. kalibr
                      3 February 2020 15: 28 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Nitochkin
                      soon as 30 years old no

                      That is, after all, no? So, the proportion of shit and pearl you have given is wrong, that’s what you needed to prove.
                      1. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 3 February 2020 15: 40 New
                        -2
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Quote: Nitochkin
                        soon as 30 years old no

                        That is, after all, no? So, the proportion of shit and pearl you have given is wrong, that’s what you needed to prove.

                        Do you dispute the results of the Great Patriotic War? Do you think that it was not the Soviet Union that won? After all, it is this Victory in the war, which was unleashed by the ancestors of your current idols (I fully admit that the customers are in one person), is a measure of the ratio of portions of "crap" and "pearls", a measure of those achievements in the restoration and development of the country after the chaos of the First World War and civil war. But you're only looking for "shit" and trying to cover up "pearls" with it. And who are you, Mr. Shpakovsky, after that?
                      2. kalibr
                        3 February 2020 18: 20 New
                        +4
                        Are you drunk or did you write it foolishly? Was there any talk of war here somewhere? No! The point was that ... (if you were drawn to the topic of war), we won the war, but lost the world. You yourself wrote that the country has not won in it for 30 years. So what are we talking about? And about only "shit", I already wrote to you: order this folder, 137 pages and find there "no shit." your own (or do all the same on the materials of your city's archive!) and publish it on VO. And I'll be the first to tell you how well you did it. Well, bolder. The gods do not burn the pots!
                      3. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 February 2020 05: 05 New
                        -6
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Are you drunk or did you write it foolishly? Was there any talk of war here somewhere? No! The point was that ... (if you were drawn to the topic of war), we won the war, but lost the world. You yourself wrote that the country has not won in it for 30 years. So what are we talking about? And about only "shit", I already wrote to you: order this folder, 137 pages and find there "no shit." your own (or do all the same on the materials of your city's archive!) and publish it on VO. And I'll be the first to tell you how well you did it. Well, bolder. The gods do not burn the pots!

                        Mr. Shpakovsky, are you talking about being drunk or foolish?
                        Victory The Great Patriotic War is the quintessence of all the achievements of the Soviet Union, economic, social, cultural, etc. Were it not for this, this war would have been lost and the brown plague, to yours, anti-advisers, joy, would have spread throughout our Motherland. But this same war caused future decline and collapse, because the losses were colossal, especially in people; smart, courageous, initiative and decent were killed who did not sit behind the comrades' backs, did not flee, like you, to hide and mow from the call. Those who remained were undermined by strength and health, and it was still necessary to restore the destroyed. Therefore, people like you, corrupt opportunists, and hidden traitors like Khrushchev, who, figuratively speaking, sold a great idea for jeans and Coca-Cola, seized power.
                        And while conducting your "research" you spit on the Great Victory as well. Who are you, Mr. Shpakovsky?
                      4. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 February 2020 06: 10 New
                        -5
                        Following the above:
                      5. kalibr
                        4 February 2020 14: 03 New
                        +3
                        And why are stupid people always so pathetic?
                      6. kalibr
                        4 February 2020 14: 07 New
                        +2
                        That is, the victory was the cause of the subsequent defeat, as I understand you?
                      7. Nitochkin
                        Nitochkin 4 February 2020 15: 08 New
                        -3
                        Quote: kalibr
                        That is, the victory was the cause of the subsequent defeat, as I understand you?

                        And you, Mr. Shpakovsky, have the audacity to call me stupid.
                      8. kalibr
                        4 February 2020 16: 48 New
                        +2
                        This is obvious to everyone who reads your comments. And this is not arrogance, but the only possible explanation for what you write. Do not believe me, read the comments of Undecim. But I asked you a question: that is, the victory caused the subsequent defeat, right?
                  2. kalibr
                    4 February 2020 16: 58 New
                    +3
                    And you can order materials "hurray, hurray, everything was fine in the USSR" in our own OFOPO GAPO, make your own article (or do all the same on the materials of your city's archive!) And publish it on VO. And I will be the first to tell you how well you did it. Well, bolder. The gods do not burn the pots!


                    Why do not you do so instead of pathos and unnecessary rhetoric?
              2. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 3 February 2020 19: 21 New
                -2
                He is a teacher of Marxism-Leninism, who went to the village as a teacher in order to slope away from the army. This is data from his previous publications.
              3. kalibr
                3 February 2020 20: 30 New
                +2
                Does this relate to photocopies of archival materials? And by the way, where did you get that I taught Marxism-Leninism. There was no such discipline. Not at all ... you already.
  • kalibr
    3 February 2020 10: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: Nitochkin
    You would have published on Polish sites, fans would be unlimited.

    It makes no sense to publish on Polish sites. They are not interested in any Penza there. Now, if there were any interesting materials related to their history - then, yes, why not.
    1. fighter angel
      fighter angel 3 February 2020 11: 01 New
      +5
      Vyacheslav, well, you yourself answered everything.
      If there was a "benefit" and "meaning" - you would have been published even with the bald devil!
      This indicates your, alas, lack of principle, and the absence of clear life principles and beliefs.
      You are an opportunist with a nose to the wind.
      Sorry for the directness.
      I'm not in vain about the weather vane, I gave you an example not so long ago ...
      1. kalibr
        3 February 2020 12: 08 New
        +2
        Does this affect the quality of materials? Here are photocopies of documents that tell about our past more than any author’s text. And if you are so worried about principles - then I already wrote - order in our archive a selection of materials of other content, positive, so to speak, and publish it on VO. I personally will only be FOR!
  • Looking for
    Looking for 3 February 2020 17: 55 New
    -3
    Yes. Character traits. Peculiar to your nationality. Climb out.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 18: 21 New
      +4
      Quote: Seeker
      Yes. Character traits. Peculiar to your nationality. Climb out.

      Is it your surname that determines your nationality? So silly...
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 3 February 2020 18: 28 New
        -4
        no. in the main. by your "face" And by the last name is really stupid, your breed has learned to disguise itself well under the Russian name.
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 18: 29 New
          +4
          Quote: Seeker
          no. in the main. by your "face" And by the last name is really stupid, your breed has learned to disguise itself well under the Russian name.

          And this is even dumber ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 3 February 2020 20: 14 New
      +6
      Quote: Seeker
      Yes. Character traits. Peculiar to your nationality. Climb out.

      People made an interesting selection of documents - probably because he is a Jew laughing Or is he a Jew because you do not like this sample? )))
      1. kalibr
        3 February 2020 20: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: Krasnodar
        People made an interesting selection of documents - probably because he is Jewish. Or is he Jewish because you do not like this selection? )))

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
  • bober1982
    bober1982 3 February 2020 08: 42 New
    10
    When such documents are made public, it is always of interest, and it is not a matter of someone's far-fetched anti-Soviet views (or, in their absence)
    And, in tsarist Russia there were similar classified materials that related to the internal state of affairs in the Empire, and which were not for the press.
    The famous Stalinist warming of relations with the Church was caused by confidential data, from which it became clear to the authorities that the majority of the population considered themselves believers, this was a real shock to the authorities.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 08: 49 New
      +7
      Quote: bober1982
      The famous Stalinist warming of relations with the Church was caused by confidential data, from which it became clear to the authorities that the majority of the population considered themselves believers, this was a real shock to the authorities.

      Exactly! Documents confirm this.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 3 February 2020 19: 23 New
        -3
        Can I bring these documents?
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 19: 51 New
          +5
          So right away - no. Not at hand. I have not dealt with this topic since 1990, when I wanted to write a book "Star and Cross" about the tank column "Alexander Nevsky". I was then at the Metropolitan's office in the Lavra, and had an interesting conversation there. And they gave me interesting figures. But the book didn't go well. And somewhere it is in papers. But I will keep in mind the data on believers in the Penza region. Surely they are somewhere.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 3 February 2020 20: 15 New
            -2
            Here's the thing. Now the ROC is privatizing Victory, arguing that "there are no atheists in war." Nevertheless, I have to grieve this charitable office - neither my father (born in 1922, aircraft navigator), nor my grandfather (born in 1893, a locksmith in a front-line weapons workshop), nor my father's brother (born in 1919). , Red Army soldier, died in Stalingrad on September 19.09.1942, 35 d) were not believers. Like everyone who was less than 1941 years old at the beginning of the war. And who was more - also not everyone trusted in God, my grandfather is proof of that. "Warming relations with the church", I believe, was caused by the attempts of the church itself to establish relations with the authorities, especially since this "warming" began not in the summer of 1943, but, if I am not mistaken, in mid-XNUMX.
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 20: 34 New
              +3
              Quote: Aviator_
              "Warming relations with the church", I believe, was caused by the attempts of the church itself to improve relations with the authorities, especially since this "warming" began not in the summer of 1941, but, if I am not mistaken, in mid-1943.

              All right. And I really regret that I did not deal with this topic anymore. But I know that Stalin’s correspondence with Churchill was declassified, but with Metropolitan Sergius - no. I don’t know now.
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 4 February 2020 19: 30 New
              -2
              Minusators - I think that all your relatives who participated in the Patriotic War were deeply religious? And can evidence be presented, or will it be, as always, in a chatter?
  • smaug78
    smaug78 3 February 2020 09: 01 New
    +5
    Reading the comments on the article, I was once again convinced:
    There are two categories of "very strange" people, they are liberals and jingoistic patriots. They are "very strange" because the word "logic" is not familiar to them, they do not read documents, they all replace PERSONAL POLITICAL OPINION. These categories differ from each other only in the color of political preferences.
    Moreover, the liberal is less dangerous, they can always be pressed to the nail with documents. But the cheer patriot, and even with the initiative, waving his pretty saggy patriotic chuyka - this is a problem.
  • Nitochkin
    Nitochkin 3 February 2020 09: 19 New
    -2
    Anti-Shpakovsky material.
  • Lamata
    Lamata 3 February 2020 10: 09 New
    +9
    Having rummaged in archives it is possible to come across such that light in eyes fades.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 3 February 2020 10: 25 New
    +7
    And what is fatal? The country lived a difficult life. In pre-revolutionary Russia, it’s probably not what happened in police reports.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 3 February 2020 10: 33 New
      10
      Quote: Moskovit
      In pre-revolutionary Russia, it’s probably not what happened in police reports.

      Either a fairy tale or a joke.
      A soldier in a tavern made a drunken brawl, they began to shame him ....... how can you? the portrait is hanging on the wall of the Sovereign Emperor Alexander III. I spit on him, answers, and further rowdy.
      Put in prison, reported to the tsar. He made a resolution on paper - to terminate the case, set him free, to remove my portraits from taverns, to hand over to the soldier - I spit on him too.
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 10: 44 New
        +8
        He made a resolution on paper - to terminate the case, set him free, to remove my portraits from taverns, to hand over to the soldier - I spit on him too.

        yes, a famous historical joke about Alexander III drinks
        Well, it’s clear that bread began to be stolen by loaves of bread.

        I'm wondering .. hi Citizen Kanyakin, who stole bread, was fired from his previous job for drunkenness. But they were not expelled from the party. Is this a normal case or not? It seems to be, what kind of trust can there be in such a comrade? request
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 10: 54 New
          +5
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          Is this a normal case or not?

          Normal! It was necessary to thump hard to be expelled ... And so "put it in view."
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 10: 57 New
            +7
            And so "put it in view."

            well ... what can you do ... alcoholism is such a thing ... request and often we look at her almost condescendingly ...
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 10: 52 New
      +8
      In pre-revolutionary Russia, it’s probably not what happened in police reports.

      Alexei, I want to talk about one of the funniest cases that was recorded in the police reports of pre-revolutionary Russia. And, I hope, the esteemed administration will not mind, because you cannot erase words from the truth! hi
      A curious incident that happened once with a certain nobleman Makleroev. Surname unusual, similar to the Scottish: McLeroy (McLeroy). Apparently, the aforementioned nobleman and Petersburger adhered to British traditions - in any case, in terms of drunkenness and in terms of, so to speak, originality of behavior. Once in his spare time, he drank hard drinks and went for a walk around Petersburg - to see people, to show himself. Some time later, he was discovered, according to the police protocol, "in a state of intoxication in the Passage", where "he took out his child-bearing penis with everyone ...". With this action, he greatly frightened the ladies who came with their husbands to the Passage in order to get acquainted with the contents of haberdashery shops. There was a commotion. The police ran to the screams. The original Makleroev was sent to the site. Apparently, in his act there was some kind of ideological motive, some kind of manifestation. For the same source reports that the hero of the occasion was demonstratively "walking along the streets with the city police to the police, having a child-bearing member outside." In this form, it was delivered to the jail. request
      Andrzej Ikonnikov-Galitsky, "Chronicles of St. Petersburg Crimes", volume 1.
      Here is a link to the electronic version of the book, I highly recommend it.
      https://statehistory.ru/books/Andzhey-Ikonnikov-Galitskiy_KHroniki-peterburgskikh-prestupleniy/37
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 3 February 2020 12: 34 New
        +6
        Apparently, in his act there was some kind of ideological motive
        There are no ideological motives. There are clear signs of paraphilic disorder - exhibitionism. He was not to be put in jail, but on Moika Embankment, 126;
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 13: 15 New
          +5
          There are clear signs of paraphilic disorder - exhibitionism. He was not to be put in jail, but on Moika Embankment, 126;

          well, the Good Doctors should decide, sir, what he has there - exhibitionism, or just a drunken trick.wink
          The writer Reshetnikov had "mental exhibitionism":
          Often, the dissolute contemporary and the namesake of Dostoevsky, the literary man Fedor Mikhailovich Reshetnikov, fell into the jail. A talented author of ethnographic prose about the life of Vyatka peasants, he suffered from indomitable bouts. In a drunken state, he usually went to the Summer Garden, where he shocked a decent public with hooligan antics. Similar indulgence in a site came to an end. hi
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 3 February 2020 13: 22 New
            +4
            You do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs. Drunken drunkard and exhibitionist are different objects of the application for psychiatry.
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 13: 28 New
              +7
              Drunken drunkard and exhibitionist are different objects of the application for psychiatry.

              All right. stop The act was situational (as they say, "first time - not an exhibitionist"), or included in the system of actions of Mr. Makleroev? hi What can we say from one trick, moreover, about incentive motives? request Not if he purposefully went to the Passage to to shake общественность shock primary sexual characteristics, yes, it’s obvious - the pervert’s trick! hi drinks
              Karl Bulla. Passage. Do not give thanks. hi drinks
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 3 February 2020 13: 39 New
                +4
                Karl Karlovich often sinned in staged photographs.

                As for a certain pervert Maklerov, the history of traces about him did not leave. By the way, a surname suspicious for the nobleman.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 13: 47 New
                  +6
                  By the way, a surname suspicious for the nobleman.

                  why is it suspicious? What rank was given to the personal nobility, I don’t remember? what drinks
                  Karl Karlovich often sinned in staged photographs.

                  But he captured the life of St. Petersburg for several decades! hi
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 3 February 2020 13: 49 New
                    +5
                    What rank was given to the personal nobility, I don’t remember?
                    From IX in the civil service - a titular adviser.
                    why is it suspicious?
                    According to the fifth column.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 13: 54 New
                      +7
                      From IX in the civil service - a titular adviser.

                      Fifteen years he served with the clerks, and, with any luck, he’s already a nobleman! hi
                      According to the fifth column.

                      ... The tail is huge in the cabinet
                      Of the people, perhaps a hundred.
                      Mishka was told there "no",
                      Well, to me - "please".
                      He shouted: "There is a mistake!
                      I'm a Jew! .. "
                      And to him: "Not very much here!
                      Get out of the door! "

                      Mishka is tormented by the question:
                      Who here is the enemy mysterious?
                      And the answer is terribly simple -
                      And the only answer.
                      I'm fine. Pah-pah-pah.
                      Bear drinks the damned
                      He says that for the graph
                      Not allowed - the fifth.

                      (Vladimir Semenovich Vysotsky) drinks

                      Why not, Viktor Nikolaevich? Is it impossible to assume that some descendant of the carriers of checkered kilts could become Russified and "overgrown" with deviations of sex-role behavior? hi and drunk to dump the contents of these deviations, and at the same time, and their pants, on visitors to the Passage? request
                      1. Undecim
                        Undecim 3 February 2020 14: 20 New
                        +4
                        the descendant of the carriers of checkered kilts could turn Russian
                        Most likely the descendant of Abraham could be baptized.
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 14: 31 New
                        +6
                        Most likely the descendant of Abraham could be baptized.

                        why not? hi All things are possible. drinks
                        In 1895, the case of the Simferopol bourgeois Olga Palem was considered, in a fit of jealousy, who killed her young lover - a student, nobleman Alexander Dovnar ... hi The murder occurred in St. Petersburg.
                        Both of them were from the south of Russia. Palem was baptized, initially her name was Mariam, and her dad was called Mordechai. I can’t say for the nationality of Dovnar - I can’t! request
                        That is ... anything is possible! drinks baptized - and went to St. Petersburg to do a career!
                        And yes - The Senate ruled to convict Olga Palem for ten months in prison for manslaughter committed in the heat of passion. hi
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 February 2020 16: 38 New
                        +5
                        Interestingly, that is, on "vykrestov" "Pale of Settlement" did not spread?
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 17: 00 New
                        +8
                        did not the Pale of Settlement spread to "vykrestov"?

                        no. The national question was then resolved through religion. Orthodox - live wherever you want; and if you go to the synagogue, even if you’re at least three times in half with a Frenchman and a Frenchman - all, excuse me, live below the Pale of Settlement! request
                        Our venerable historian Tarle, for example, was also a "cross". hi
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 February 2020 17: 09 New
                        +4
                        Hmmm. And why were Muslims not segregated?
                      6. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 17: 32 New
                        +7
                        Anton, I can’t say anything for Muslims. Exposed or not, let Viktor Nikolaevich clarify. drinks
                        I must say that there were quite a lot of Jews in the capital under the king. And the Great Choral Synagogue was erected in 1883-1893. hi
                        In general, as you remember, the most interesting representative of the "alien faith" in Petersburg was the Japanese navigator Kodai, who came to Petersburg at the end of the 18th century. wink Not only was he introduced to the Empress, the Japanese was even more shocked when he was introduced to the unloved heir - Pavel Petrovich. good Well, which of the inhabitants of the Land of the Rising Sun then it occurred to him that he could even see the representative of the imperial house. belay And here - please, because Paul was delighted with the Japanese, invited him to his carriage, and even touched him in conversation! For Koday this was a quiet shock! drinks
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 February 2020 17: 54 New
                        +6
                        Wide views was a man, Pavel Petrovich! And it is very careless in communication, despite the fact that his mother was vaccinated against smallpox. laughing
                      8. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 18: 20 New
                        +6
                        Wide views was a man, Pavel Petrovich!

                        Wide. Though original. But if you sit in Gatchina for 15 years as a recluse, you will not grow so weird. In any case, Paul began to be "rehabilitated" only after the early 2000s, and before that, the guides and teachers vied with each other to twist the famous myth about the order: "The whole regiment - to Siberia!" hi

                        - I'm a nobleman ...
                        - There was a nobleman! There was a nobleman !!!!
                        angry
                        ..but this bastard then in the film will also come to kill in the crowd of majors ... No. Sukhorukov is gorgeous! soldier good
                      9. kalibr
                        3 February 2020 18: 25 New
                        +7
                        Anton, here it is: if a Jew was drafted into the army, then by decree of Nicholas I, after an urgent he had the right to settle in any part of Russia. The Pale of Settlement did not apply to soldiers !!! And it is clear that their descendants. It was only necessary to get into the army. And the crosses were completely benevolent. By the way, even Alexander Generals were Jewish generals!
                      10. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 February 2020 18: 42 New
                        +7
                        "Quarter" in the "lower ranks" in the army of Nikolai Pavlovich?!?!? Thank you humbly! Even more respect for the Jews!
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 3 February 2020 20: 20 New
                    +2
                    An interesting book "Brief News about Wandering in Northern Waters".
                2. Undecim
                  Undecim 3 February 2020 17: 45 New
                  +7
                  Why didn’t Muslims segregate?
                  The Islamic policy of the Russian Empire is a complex and voluminous issue. Here, at least, an article is needed, if not one. Given the number of Muslims and territories occupied by them, the issue concerned the integrity of the empire, therefore, it required a special approach.
                3. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 17: 50 New
                  +5
                  Given the number of Muslims and territories occupied by them, the question concerned the integrity of the empire, and therefore required a special approach.

                  Cases interethnic and interfaith - in general, a delicate matter .... request drinks
                4. Undecim
                  Undecim 3 February 2020 17: 59 New
                  +8
                  Interethnic and interfaith affairs are generally a delicate matter ...
                  Therefore, in the Russian Empire since 1832, for the supervision and control of non-Orthodox Christian denominations and other religions, there was a Department of Religious Affairs of Foreign Confessions of the Ministry of the Interior.
                5. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 3 February 2020 18: 21 New
                  +3
                  Yes, nifiga it is not thin !!! Very thick. This is a matter of the responsibility of the citizen to the state and vice versa. In the case of Russia, there is also a society that does not in any way correlate with the state and an individual, which is sad. Here is such a "love triangle", Shakespeare never dreamed of!
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 February 2020 18: 04 New
                +1
                What is this special approach?
                In my understanding, the Soviet government did not find anything better, on the national and religious issues, how to follow the precepts of the empire, the current government of the Russian Federation repeats the same mistakes. Rakes are reusable.
              3. Undecim
                Undecim 3 February 2020 18: 12 New
                +3
                What is this special approach?
                This is a complex and voluminous question. Here, at least, an article is needed, if not one.
              4. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 February 2020 18: 28 New
                +4
                It depends where ...
                If the Constitution of the Russian Federation, then only one., In the Criminal Code - about five, in the Code of Administrative Offenses - from a dozen or more.
              5. Undecim
                Undecim 3 February 2020 19: 46 New
                +4
                In this context, I did not consider the issue. Jurisprudence is a separate area of ​​crocheting.
              6. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 February 2020 21: 41 New
                +3
                This is not jurisprudence; it is precisely that which is crocheting!
              7. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 February 2020 23: 18 New
                +2
                My respect, Victor Nikolaevich! As usual, in the best traditions of Russian parliamentarism, initially did not catch the humor!
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 4 February 2020 17: 05 New
    +1
    At that time, to get a photo, you needed a slow shutter speed. Therefore, all the pictures were as if staged.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 4 February 2020 17: 29 New
      +1
      It's not just about endurance. "Box" cameras already had shutters, which worked out 1/30 and 1/60 of a second.
      But it was necessary to set the device on a tripod, focus on the frosted glass, replace the frosted glass with a cassette with a plate, then shoot. I started with "Photocor - 1".
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 4 February 2020 02: 20 New
    0
    Not a bit surprised. Any RAM will tell you a lot of similar stories))
  • kalibr
    3 February 2020 10: 55 New
    +4
    Quote: Moskovit
    In pre-revolutionary Russia, it’s probably not what happened in police reports.

    There is generally horror, especially in 1905 -07. Police officers were killed right on the streets. And they robbed pharmacies with the words "For revolution".
    1. Karen
      Karen 3 February 2020 11: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: kalibr
      There is generally horror, especially in 1905 -07. Police officers were killed right on the streets. And they robbed pharmacies with the words "For revolution".

      It was after these murders of 12000 civil servants that instilled fear into the Russian ethnic group, because of which the BOP became possible ...
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 February 2020 19: 13 New
      +6
      And in the mid-90s it was sometimes easier to come to terms with the bandits than with the "law enforcement officers."
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 3 February 2020 13: 16 New
    -1
    Correctly. After all, the basis of any Management System is People, with all their vices, weaknesses, and virtues.
  • Operator
    Operator 3 February 2020 10: 33 New
    +7
    Like - if the reports of the party committees and the NKVD were published daily by the newspaper Pravda, then fellow citizens would know how they live laughing
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 12: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      fellow citizens would know how they live

      They would know that they live badly everywhere! And - "what then did the grandfathers and fathers fight for?"
      1. Operator
        Operator 3 February 2020 12: 08 New
        +5
        Do you really think that, for example, I needed the Pravda newspaper to know how people “live everywhere” in the 1970s-80s? laughing
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 13: 35 New
          +1
          You are not, but many are.
          1. Operator
            Operator 3 February 2020 13: 40 New
            +4
            And what a hell of a lot of concern for "many" (who are not able to analyze on their own and need newspaper tips) - for them at all times the slogan "life has become better, life has become more fun" remains relevant (otherwise depression, decreased productivity, alcoholism, suicide, etc.).
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 15: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: Operator
              And what a hell of a lot of concern for "many" (who are not able to analyze on their own and need newspaper tips) - for them at all times the slogan "life has become better, life has become more fun" remains relevant (otherwise depression, decreased productivity, alcoholism, suicide, etc.).

              Knowledge belongs to God, not to people. It is never too much, that's why.
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 3 February 2020 22: 21 New
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                Knowledge belongs to God, not to people.

                It is interesting how knowledge can belong to a being, the necessity of existence of which, for the formulas describing the laws of the Universe, is most precisely defined by the phrase: "The violinist is not needed, dear. He only eats excess fuel." (C)?
  • Lamata
    Lamata 3 February 2020 10: 35 New
    0
    Not a bit about this topic, but next to it, my friend took part in guarding the US embassy, ​​gave me read what citizens write (it was in Kazakhstan), let’s omit Kennedy, but such opuses, from the betrayal of the government to the scum of her husband and mother-in-law.
  • savage1976
    savage1976 3 February 2020 11: 36 New
    +5
    Thanks to the author for the work.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 3 February 2020 12: 18 New
    13
    Good afternoon, Vyacheslav! hi
    I, frankly, did not expect other comments. My late father was from the "galaxy of old Bolsheviks," as he called himself, worked all his life in high enough positions and also knew enough. So, he once, arguing with me about the thirties, he almost literally repeated Themistocles' statement that "the truth is a very strong drink and can hit many in the head." I'm talking about our "urya-patriots", they have this truth, even with a good "snack" without cerebral toxicosis, will not slip through. laughing
    PS SchA with minuses will climb. fellow
    1. Blacksmith 55
      Blacksmith 55 3 February 2020 12: 55 New
      +4
      Sea Cat, from me +, I often talked with people much older than me, my mother told me a lot about that time (she was from 1924), father-in-law (from 1918) and even different residents of our village. And EVERYTHING, literally everyone said that the time was terrible, any word or remark ended in arrest, if it was about people higher up, or about the authorities.
      I did not happen to live at that time, so I judge from the stories of people who survived it.
      I have a double opinion about Stalin. On the one hand, he lifted the country out of ruin, on the other, innumerable, innocent victims.
      I noticed Alexander Suvorov, an ardent Stalinist, but each of us (thank God) has his own opinion, and his right to think in his own way is not a condemnation.
    2. kalibr
      3 February 2020 13: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: Sea Cat
      I did not expect other comments.

      And me too! And all the best to you today!
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 3 February 2020 12: 20 New
    +4
    To the Author ... the first thing I wanted to ask was such a loud title, but it was presented negligible even for an article of documents to draw a little objective conclusion ... second, this is your second article on documents from archives ... the purpose of these articles, the task of their outcome? When you squeak about models, the goal is clear, you write about your hobby and maybe some of the young people after reading will be interested in and do this interesting thing .... the fact that in the archives is a lot of interesting things it probably doesn’t cost anyone to explain, if you would set a clear and precise goal, then many comments there weren’t always correct and offensive, and perhaps there would be an interesting discussion.
    in the 90s, they hacked me to a term paper following the results of work in the archive ... well, then it was still not quite possible to draw the conclusions that I made, but literally the next year they almost forced her to lift her up and almost a diploma for her on the basis of writing, and then one pepper on my basis wrote, but I must say three bottles of "Smirovka" put down))))) well, that's it .. by the way
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 13: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: Andrey VOV
      and then one candidate’s pepper on my basis wrote

      Here is the goal. People develop brains, someone may be interested and ... develop ... Perhaps on this basis I will write a book ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 3 February 2020 13: 18 New
    +9
    “To ordinary people” - hooray, “we are great, we are powerful, higher than the sun, more clouds”, and there ... “top secret”, only for the elite.
    Since then, nothing has changed, on the contrary, as the ability of the media to manipulate the mass consciousness has increased many times.
    You don't have to go far for examples, just look in the "News" section of the site and see the submission form, selection of information, comments. The naked eye can see that the process of fooling is progressing successfully.
    Indicative in this regard are comments. The vast majority are not able to perceive history as history. It is perceived as a draft and instead of a normal discussion, a primitive srach immediately flares up when neither side hears the other. The main thing is to throw a lot of poop at the opponent and the author.
    Alas, no worthy defenders of the ideas of socialism have yet been observed. There are counters who are not able to see behind the trees of the forest and, instead of learning from the information provided, they begin to blaspheme the author of the article. To socialism of the XNUMXst century, such illiterate defenders, bogged down in the past, are not only unnecessary, they are harmful to it.
    "The intolerant and fanatics are usually terribly orthodox, no matter what kind - Catholics, Orthodox, Marxists - and in this orthodoxy there is an ossification of faith, the cessation of the movement of life."
    Arno Peters read at least someone from the local "Suvorov"?
  • God save the king
    God save the king 3 February 2020 14: 07 New
    +4
    The history of your country cannot be forgotten and distorted, no matter how black pages it contains.
    Thanks to the author very much for the wonderful article.
  • Operator
    Operator 3 February 2020 15: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: kalibr
    Knowledge belongs to God

    Moreover, why should it be distributed in the media - God himself will bring to whom it is necessary laughing
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 17: 57 New
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      God himself will bring to whom it is necessary

      God acts at the hands of men.
      1. Operator
        Operator 3 February 2020 18: 02 New
        +4
        Individual people - Moses, Gautama, John the Baptist, Muhammad, etc.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 3 February 2020 17: 01 New
    +7
    (well, not all the same they work hard from morning to dark night)
    It also happens, Vyacheslav Olegovich. For example, mine. And, for example, Vlad's "Kote pane Kohanku", last weekend was the last for the next month.
    However, thanks for the material!
    Do you know what is interesting? The percentage of marriage in enterprises!
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 17: 48 New
      +7
      The percentage of marriage in enterprises!

      in 41, our "waste percentages" for 45-mm shells helped the Germans advance ... Yes, there were some years (I don't remember, I had to raise Svirin) when the shells for "forty-five" were of very poor quality ... negative Unfortunately... recourse EMNIP, AlekseyRa even somehow laid out Old. hi but I could be wrong!
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 3 February 2020 19: 35 New
        0
        But still, the marriage was due to technological lag hi .
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 20: 39 New
          +2
          If ... also because of the attitude to work.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 February 2020 21: 50 New
            +3
            Dear people, too lazy to "raise" Svirin. But, I think, one did not interfere with the other ... what Respectfully to all! hi
    2. kalibr
      3 February 2020 17: 56 New
      +5
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      Do you know what is interesting? The percentage of marriage in enterprises!

      Good afternoon, Anton! I am also struck by these numbers, every tenth diesel engine is a marriage, 50% marriage, 92% - marriage. What is this? At a military factory. However, there will be special material about the ZIF - both in the archive and in the newspapers!
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 18: 54 New
    -1
    As for the negative that the author blames the Soviet government

    What to do, not all were honest, conscientious workers in the 20th year of Soviet power. There were lazy people, and drunkards, and thieves, and parasites, and outright enemies. There were unscrupulous people among the drummers and Stakhanovites, but they were also exposed.

    So what is the fault of Soviet power here? To educate a new person, a new attitude to work, considerable time is needed, and the Soviet government did this. Just in those years, the Cultural Revolution was launched in the country in order to increase the culture of the people, the culture of production.

    In addition, all the archival letters and protocols cited by the author indicate that they fought with the shortcomings, they deprived the party membership card of pressure on the Stakhanovites, put them in prison for obvious wrecking, and even shot them. It was a struggle for a new life, for socialism, a struggle against those who did not want to work honestly, who interfered with the building of socialism,

    And the author, instead of showing how the Soviet government did everything so that the people began to live better, so that the country could survive in the future war, as always, petty and vile ennobes it.

    There is a saying that "In the cleanest ass @ it’s possible to find a little go @ on." I suggest the author, for the integrity of the picture and the scientific nature, to dig into the modern “Z” and compare. I think that he will find so many “Gs” that he can not be compared with the thirties

    And the article "count with potatoes." Our teacher gave such an assessment in the 50s to one negligent calligraphy student.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 19: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Green
      And the author, instead of showing how the Soviet government did everything so that the people began to live better, so that the country could survive in the future war, as always, petty and vile ennobes it.

      Green, we already said that if everything was OK, we would still be living in the USSR today, right? So go @ on was more than not otherwise it would not fall apart. And I already wrote that we need to learn from this and know exactly why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again.
      And - by the way, how did the people begin to live better if the head of the NKVD himself said that people and cattle on collective farms have nothing to eat and this creates a decadent mood. Wow is better and more fun of course!
    2. kalibr
      3 February 2020 20: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Green
      that they struggled with shortcomings, they deprived the party membership card of pressure on the Stakhanovites' leaders, put them in prison for obvious sabotage, and even shot them.

      What process or result is important to you? Yes, they fought, but they shot. Everything is fine, beautiful marquise, everything is fine, everything is fine! And then bang 91st! Your house and stables burned down when the whole estate was on fire!
    3. kalibr
      3 February 2020 20: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Green
      I suggest the author, for the integrity of the picture and the scientific nature, to dig into the modern “Z” and compare. I think that he will find so many “Gs” that he can not be compared with the thirties

      I agree that so, but indeed we have become richer. But ... here it is much more, and Russia does not fall apart. Everything is bad, but she stands and will stand. The process is yes, bad. But the result is good. Then there was a good process, the result - bad - the 91st!
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 20: 07 New
        -5
        Quote: kalibr
        But ... here it is much more, and Russia does not fall apart


        And since more is not all is lost, soon there will be "1917" again. The class struggle is a serious thing.
        1. kalibr
          3 February 2020 20: 24 New
          +3
          I see you again want blood, you don’t have enough Donbass? But the lessons have been learned, more than the 17th will not be repeated.

          But you are on the right track, once you admit: What to do, not everyone was honest, conscientious workers in the 20th year of Soviet power. There were lazy people, and drunkards, and thieves, and parasites, and outright enemies. There were unscrupulous people among the drummers and Stakhanovites ... It remains to find out how many there were. And whether it was possible with such a% to dream about something.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 20: 53 New
            -4
            Quote: kalibr
            lessons learned, more than the 17th will not be repeated.

            During the reaction after the defeat of the 1905 revolution, some clever people said the same thing, but the workers thought differently and warned "Wait, 1905 will come again." And he came - in 1917 ... So everything is still ahead

            Quote: kalibr
            But you are on the right track, once you admit: What to do, not all were honest, conscientious workers in the 20th year of Soviet power .... It remains to find out how many there were. And whether it was possible with such a% to dream about something.

            You know that these are birthmarks of capitalism. Not everyone wanted to live under socialism and work honestly, but there were a minority of them. You are a scientist, and you have cards in your hands - determine the percentage, if it is interesting to you.
            1. kalibr
              3 February 2020 21: 47 New
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              these are birthmarks of capitalism

              Then people lived in the USSR, either pinto like horses, or even half were blacks!
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 22: 15 New
                -1
                Quote: kalibr
                Then people lived in the USSR, either pinto like horses, or even half were blacks!

                Well, what to take from the laps? Even the basics were not able to learn.
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 3 February 2020 20: 31 New
          +2
          And since more, all is not lost, soon there will be "1917" again
          Considering your and your comrades-in-arms complete inability and unwillingness to analyze past mistakes and improve your knowledge, no class struggle is foreseen yet, which is good, otherwise you’ll pump everything and blow the whistle, and the future Shpakovsky will again write that " there was a good process, the result was bad. "
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 20: 38 New
            -2
            Quote: Undecim
            no class struggle is foreseen yet

            This is what the minions of the bourgeoisie want so much for you. But alas, the class struggle is an objective thing, as long as classes exist, it also exists.

            The class struggle has been waged since slave-owning times; it was not only in the primitive communal system (primitive communism), and as society develops in a spiral. then the class struggle according to this objective law will end only under communism, when again there will be no classes.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 3 February 2020 21: 21 New
              +2
              This is what the servants of the bourgeoisie want so much for.
              I see that you have everything that is not a fanatic, but retained the ability to use your head not only to generate slogans and dogmas, but also for its intended purpose - minions of the bourgeois.
              You practically do not differ in absolute value from Olgovich, only the opposite sign.
              At the same time, the dogmatism, abuse and hallelujah that you profess are some of the main causes of the collapse of the Soviet state.
              Therefore, for the next change in the socio-economic formation, it is not necessary to quote the classics and hallelujah mantras about past greatness and minions, but a turn to reality and the development of a theory in accordance with this very reality.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 22: 11 New
                -1
                Quote: Undecim
                Therefore, for the next change in the socio-economic formation, it is not necessary to quote the classics and hallelujah mantras about past greatness and minions, but a turn to reality and the development of theory in accordance with this very reality

                So, the class struggle is the most objective reality. And only the bourgeoisie and its minions deny this.
                Well, do you really think that equality exists between the worker and the oligarch?
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 3 February 2020 22: 30 New
                  0
                  Well, do you really think that equality exists between the worker and the oligarch?
                  No, I do not think so.
                  The processes of social differentiation in society continue, the opposite of the objective interests of different class groups of society has also not gone away.
                  However, the theory of class struggle, suitable for the conditions of classical capitalism of the mid-XNUMXth century, today, when the modern social system has developed democratic institutions that allow in many ways to change the nature of class conflicts towards their non-violent resolution, is outdated. New concepts are needed that are relevant to the surrounding reality, not mossy dogmas.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 3 February 2020 23: 34 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Undecim
                    The processes of social differentiation in society continue, the opposite of the objective interests of different class groups of society has also not gone away.
                    However, the theory of class struggle, suitable for the conditions of classical capitalism of the mid-XNUMXth century, is already outdated.

                    I repeat once again, the class struggle has existed since the classes appeared, and it will end only with the destruction of classes. This will happen under communism, and the road to it goes through the social revolution, you can deny it as much as you want, but this is an objective process.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 4 February 2020 00: 21 New
                      +1
                      I repeat again
                      Well spilled Olgovich !!!
                      You brilliantly confirmed my initial conclusion - dogmatism, offspring and hallelujah plus the complete inability to objectively assess the surrounding reality. So you will sit on the stove in anticipation of a social revolution. Good luck.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 4 February 2020 02: 19 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Undecim
                        You brilliantly confirmed my initial conclusion - dogmatism, offensiveness and hallelujah plus the complete inability to objectively evaluate the surrounding reality.

                        I do not know what they call those who deny the objective laws of the development of society, so choose a name for yourself.
        3. fuxila
          fuxila 4 February 2020 18: 00 New
          +3
          Comrade Green, can you find out which classes will fight? Workers once or twice and miscalculated, you destroyed the peasants as a class in the 20-30s, as well as nobles and Cossacks. Do you lead slender managers? Although, however, I can imagine how you, in a black leather jacket, led by Central Asian workers and peasants (and of course the Red Chinese), will catch and kill Russian policemen and officials on the streets, as well as doctors, scientists and other bourgeois (just like in 1917!).
          When the West takes advantage of another unrest and forces, you will call on the soldiers not to fight the enemy, but to start killing their officers and fraternizing with the Western proletarians — bayonets to the ground, we won’t fight for the bourgeois, we’ll run home ... (well, at the same time according to the familiar pattern - strikes at defense plants, sabotage in transport, massive throwing in of fake money to undermine the financial system of the state, etc.). Then screams about the unnecessary Dardanelles (which the bourgeoisie will certainly need for the war in Syria). Kemsku parish? Let them take Siberia, the Far East, etc. (Well, like 100 years ago Finland, Estonia, etc.). Do you want trains with gold? please don’t get poorer ... (as after the Brest Peace), because anyway someday, according to the will of your great bald guru, there will be a world revolution and all the peoples of the world will unite under the rule of the Bronstein, Apfelbaum and others and then paradise will definitely come to the land ... Rather, it has already come, already in 1980, according to the instructions of your ukrosoviet leader and teacher Nikita embroidered ... After all, we have been living under communism for 40 years, have you forgotten? so what don't you like?
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 4 February 2020 18: 04 New
            -3
            Quote: fuxila
            Although, however, I can imagine how you, in a black leather jacket, led by Central Asian workers and peasants (and of course the Red Chinese), will catch and kill Russian policemen and officials on the streets, as well as doctors, scientists and other bourgeois (just like in 1917!)

            Do not drink a lot of vodka, otherwise you already have feverish delirium.
          2. Karen
            Karen 4 February 2020 18: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: fuxila
            so what don't you like?

            So they don’t like that there are still Russians left ... This is a potential threat ... Today there is no such threat, but tomorrow it could potentially come up ...
            ______
            A couple of hours ago, Shpakovsky’s post was deleted, where it was alleged that the USSR did not have rabid anti-Semitism ... I have my own opinion that there was rabid anti-Semitism in the Russian environment - but among that layer of people that knew the true ins and outs of the Thief ...
            1. fuxila
              fuxila 5 February 2020 17: 36 New
              +2
              Recently I worked in the archive with documents relating to the period of the conflict at the Chinese Eastern Railway in 1929. So I drew attention to reports from units of the Special Far Eastern Army. There were recorded conversations between the Red Army soldiers. The bulk of the "seditious" statements concerned the plight in the village, but there were also many attacks against the Jews. Here it is interesting that they were said to be immigrants from the Russian countryside, who before the revolution had no contact with them at all, there was still a Pale of Settlement, and those of the Jews who nevertheless crossed it settled mainly in cities. I immediately wondered what then the townspeople had to say in their apartments, especially in such cities as Moscow, Leningrad, Kharkov?
              1. Karen
                Karen 5 February 2020 17: 44 New
                +2
                They talked about what they saw: a VOR is a Jewish Sabbath on Russian bones ... All these Trotsky, Sverdlovs, Dzerzhinsky grind the Russian ethnic group ... And a little earlier, their co-religionists employed by the Austrians in the occupied territories of the Republic of Ingushetia did the same ...
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Olgovich
      Olgovich 4 February 2020 12: 39 New
      -1
      Quote: Alexander Green
      “You can find a little go @ on in the cleanest ass @ ite.”

      not so: in the whole the dog you can’t find it even a little clean, Yes... yes
  • Lamata
    Lamata 3 February 2020 20: 33 New
    +4
    Wow, how many comments on a historical topic do not often happen.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 4 February 2020 09: 50 New
      +4
      Wow, how many comments on a historical topic do not often happen.

      Igor, come back often. drinks A normal sane interlocutor is always welcome. yes
      Keyword - "sane". wink And then some, due to adherence to any ideological trends, are capable of swearing at a half-forum ... negative With respect, Nicholai hi
  • Romey
    Romey 3 February 2020 20: 45 New
    +9
    I am an opponent of red and white srach, but that was what happened. Challenging is difficult. But something tells me that when historians study the archives of the Yeltsin-Putin period, the documents presented here will fade from cynicism and greed.
    1. kalibr
      3 February 2020 21: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: romey
      when historians study the archives of the Yeltsin-Putin period, the documents presented here will fade from cynicism and greed.

      Most likely it will!
  • denplot
    denplot 3 February 2020 22: 00 New
    +1
    "Whoever swore an oath of the banner once, he must stand by him to death." Yes, a former faithful Marxist-Leninist citizen Shpakovsky? I don’t like repainted.
    1. kalibr
      4 February 2020 08: 29 New
      +2
      Stupidity, Denis! Churchill changed party affiliation twice, so what? Ieyasu Tokugawa betrayed all those whom he swore allegiance and friendship and became God! Remember, Denis, if you yourself do not understand this - betrayal as such does not exist! The traitor is the one who betrayed and lost. The one who betrayed and won is a hero and an intelligent man! Available explained? Any banner is a colored rag ... Today is one, tomorrow is another.
      1. denplot
        denplot 4 February 2020 14: 58 New
        -1
        Revelations amazing in their cynicism. So many-faced, a banner is not a rag, but a banner. But betrayal is betrayal, and there will always be reckoning for it.
        1. kalibr
          4 February 2020 16: 53 New
          0
          Quote: denplot
          But betrayal is betrayal, and there will always be reckoning for it.

          A very controversial statement that history does not confirm. Ieyasu became God; temples were built for him. Is this a retribution? I would like such a reckoning ... You look at the movie SEGUN, then speak.
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 4 February 2020 17: 58 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Stupidity, Denis! Churchill changed party affiliation twice, so what?

        Was Churchill in the Communist Party or joined it? No, he simply moved from one bourgeois party to another, and they all have the same ideals and banners - exploitation. But to abandon the ideals of equality and fraternity and go over to the side of the exploiters is treason.
        Quote: kalibr
        Ieyasu Tokugawa betrayed all those whom he swore allegiance and friendship and became God

        He was exalted by people like him, but Vlasov was hanged ...
        1. kalibr
          7 February 2020 16: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Vlasov was hanged ...

          Just because I lost! But today his banner is developing over the Kremlin!
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 7 February 2020 17: 47 New
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            Just because I lost! But today his banner is developing over the Kremlin!

            I hope you understand that the traitors in power are always temporary. The time will come and they will be told? Who's temporary? - Slack! Your time has run out.
  • Tests
    Tests 3 February 2020 22: 33 New
    +6
    3x3zsave (anton), dear, the Russian Empire of Bashkirs converted to Islam and brought the first mullah to Ufa (the Orthodox city). And about the beliefs, for example, of Komi - Zyryan, that since the middle of the 18th century they learned to go for deer and began to drive the Nenets from the forests north into the tundra - the fog is full. It seems that the Komi were also baptized, but they didn’t go to church, they didn’t baptize children and buried them without communion and funeral services. And the Khanty and Mansi Russians in the 19th century, most often, simply endured, but at the slightest opportunity they killed and robbed, these were their forests and rivers, and the Russians tried to take their fish and beast ... And the Mari, Mordvinians, Udmurts, Chuvashs not Orthodox at all in the late 19th - early 20th centuries. And considering how many old believers there were behind the Volga, how many old believers were in the Olonets and Arkhangelsk provinces at the end of the 19th century, how many old believers still live in the Arkhangelsk region, we get a complex volumetric polygon between a citizen, state, society or community, church (official or schismatic). And Lutherans in the history of Russia we will not forget. Even the cat Matroskin remembered Adam Johann von Kruzenshtern ... In Arkhangelsk the first Lutheran church St. Catherine was built of wood in 1686 with the money of merchants from Hamburg, a stone church was built in 1768, two wooden fires did not survive ... Yes, remember Khiva and Bukhara that were not in the Russian Empire, as a province. And in Bukhara in the 19th and early 20th centuries, the richest were who - correctly, Bukhara Jews ... An interesting national question in Russia before the 1905 revolution ...
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 4 February 2020 00: 08 New
    +4
    The author is right. All this was. And all the arrivals on him - the desire to see only black and white.

    And then they also squinted.
  • VVK_VDB
    VVK_VDB 4 February 2020 00: 12 New
    +1
    The author is doing a good job. Only the author sees "revelations", while I see the formation of a person in a socialist society.
    1. kalibr
      4 February 2020 08: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: VVK_VDB
      and to me the formation of a person in a socialist society

      By the way, the author too. He had a difficult birth. They did Caesarean, dragged it with forceps, made a subluxation of the cervical vertebrae, insufficient oxygen supply to the brain. So he did not cope with all the problems! Midwives (midwives) were bad!
  • smaug78
    smaug78 4 February 2020 09: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    If ... also because of the attitude to work.

    The same Svirin wrote that it was precisely because of the undeveloped and lack of knowledge of technology. And the general culture of production was not up to par in the beginning. IMHO attitude is a secondary factor.
    1. kalibr
      4 February 2020 11: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: smaug78
      IMHO attitude is a secondary factor.

      Decisive!
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 4 February 2020 10: 08 New
    +1
    Well, someone, looking at the screen, of course, blamed the author for all the shortcomings he saw there. That is, both the selection is “not that” and the filing of photographic material is hacky (and professional photography costs money, unless someone wants to sponsor it for me?), In a word, “it's not that.”
    But here, by the way, the saying will have to be made: there is nothing to blame for the mirror, if the mug is crooked. Already there are, we publish such.
    "So I try, but I don't get money for photography."
    The historian does what he does, he determines the documentary, the factual place in the History and comments on it. And it turns out that the face, but the mirror (historian) is crooked.
  • Mathafaka
    Mathafaka 4 February 2020 10: 58 New
    -3
    Haha, many want the truth about the Union, here a man publishes archives, and, as always, they are unhappy.
    So you do not need the truth, you 《True》 need, the newspaper is so Soviet
    1. Nitochkin
      Nitochkin 4 February 2020 12: 30 New
      0
      Quote: Mathafaka
      Haha, many want the truth about the Union, here a man publishes archives, and, as always, they are unhappy.
      So you do not need the truth, you 《True》 need, the newspaper is so Soviet

      Think about this. Imagine a man committed a misdemeanor at a young age and ended up in the children's room of the police. A protocol was drawn up against him, brought up and released to his parents. With whom does not happen, it would seem. The age is young, there is still no mind, the life experience is the same. He grew up, became an educated, honest and decent person. But it so happened that he was killed to death by malicious intent, for example, by his relatives because of the inheritance. And now, after some time, there is such a "Mr. Shpakovsky" who unearths that protocol in the archive, and begins to shake it all over the world, declaring the deceased person a scoundrel and a criminal. Yes, that protocol is true, but is it all true?
      Are you familiar with Goebbels’s methods? There was such a Nazi famous. So the methods of Mr. Shpakovsky are Goebbels's methods.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 4 February 2020 11: 44 New
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: smaug78
    IMHO attitude is a secondary factor.

    Decisive!

    Facts in the studio ... Very curious to read.
    1. kalibr
      4 February 2020 16: 51 New
      0
      There is no answer yet. You will have to "dig" a lot. But the attitude to work is very important. Diligence, diligence and conscientiousness, skill, finally, all this is able to level the disadvantages of technology.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 7 February 2020 12: 22 New
        0
        well done, that's right, you have to dig archives, put documents in circulation, but you shouldn’t listen to believers))
  • smaug78
    smaug78 4 February 2020 16: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    There is no answer yet. You will have to "dig" a lot. But the attitude to work is very important. Diligence, diligence and conscientiousness, skill, finally, all this is able to level the disadvantages of technology.

    Vyacheslav, unfortunately, not always and not in this case ...
    1. kalibr
      4 February 2020 17: 05 New
      +1
      Boris, I am not in the mood to argue. But I remembered an example: well-known for Ostrovsky's creation "How the steel was tempered" It describes how some "youngster" broke an expensive American drill and Korchagin speaks of his irresponsible attitude to work. Here's to you: there were 500 factories with new western equipment in the USSR. But the marriage was 50-60%. Because of which? Because of the attitude to work.
      1. Victorio
        Victorio 4 February 2020 21: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        But the marriage was 50-60%. Because of which? Due to work attitude.

        ===
        those. broke every second drill, every second machine, every second product was a defect ?!
        why not because of the lack of qualified specialists
      2. smaug78
        smaug78 5 February 2020 08: 25 New
        -1
        Vyacheslav, we are talking about a specific case. A link to the thin. lit. not appropriate at all ... Since then you are no different from your opponents of the cheers.
        1. kalibr
          5 February 2020 10: 39 New
          -1
          Quote: smaug78
          A link to the thin. lit. not appropriate at all ...

          Looking at what kind of literature ...
  • Victorio
    Victorio 4 February 2020 21: 19 New
    +1
    True, some still admit that "no one argues, there were flaws, but ..." Well, look with your own eyes what the flaws were, toAs they accumulated over the years, accumulated, and then the quantity turned into quality, and 1991 came.
    ===
    it’s too early to make such large-scale conclusions. I doubt that tens of calibers will have enough life to shovel all the archives, prepare and process them into statistics, debate with the historical community, generalize and draw conclusions, conclusions, etc.
    and for specific work and material - thanks.
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 7 February 2020 22: 12 New
    +2
    As one of my colleagues wisely said: "Yesterday we were looking for the TRUTH at work. Today we are looking for a new job."
  • andrew42
    andrew42 10 February 2020 16: 52 New
    +1
    Well, just horror, horror! And what, in fact, is shown so special in these documents? - Fraud of low and middle managers, sycophancy and sycophancy in front of high bosses, the use of ideological postulates for personal benefit and to justify their own mediocrity, irresponsibility, plus disregard for real deeds. What's NEW then? Isn't it now? - Yes, this was full under any system, at all times, especially in the present! Yes, this was the case under Soviet power, and quite often. The only difference is that such an outrage could be pinched in 2 directions: 1) by showing the real contradiction of the perversion of the Stakhanov movement to ideological postulates (and this is the most serious type of crime against state ideology) 2) by revealing and proving the actual sabotage of the organizers "pseudo -stakhanovism ". That is, theoretically, all this COULD be straightened out. Then. Unlike today, under the rule of the Party of Putin's fellow travelers. There are no options.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 12 February 2020 08: 30 New
    -1
    The author could just read Elena Prudnikova, she loves getting OGPU reports, there are a lot of things about the realities of the 30s. And no repression here is not surprising. The fight was so intense that we never dreamed of.
    1. kalibr
      12 February 2020 16: 36 New
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      The author could just read Elena Prudnikova, she likes to get OGPU reports

      Why read someone else's when you have your own? And she hardly has any reports on Penza ...
  • place
    place 5 March 2020 18: 44 New
    -1
    As Vissarion Belinsky, the founder of literary criticism in Russia, would say: "This is an encyclopedia of Russian life. An encyclopedia of contradictions in Russian life." And the fact that nowadays the word "Soviet" is applied to this without fail (!!!) is just another of the contradictions. WHAT THERE WERE, SUCH COLD AND COLD - LEFT.