Military Review

The newspaper "Pravda" of 1933 on fascism and fascists

456

Filing numbers of the newspaper Pravda from the Penza Regional Archive, and not for the whole year, but for only a few months. For the whole year - these are three such folders


For what good is it for a man if he gains the whole world and harms his soul? ”
Mark Gospel 8:36


History and documents. Newspapers, newspapers, newspapers from the archive ... How many times have I had to turn over their yellowed pages! He first looked into them somewhere in 1983, when he began working at the Department of History of the CPSU of the Penza Polytechnic Institute and writing the first historical and journalistic articles. It was the easiest. I went to the archive. He took the newspaper to the appropriate date and wrote about how this or that event was reflected in our press some years ago. Then work on the dissertation and the book "Tanks total wars ”, for which we had to calculate the loss indicators of our and German tanks according to the Sovinformburo. I found the “Message of the Soviet Government on Lend-Lease Supplies of June 11, 1944” and sent memoirs of our marshals and generals to read to our students. Who will find the link or the mention of "Messages ..." in the book - five without an exam! No one found! Then he searched - he didn’t find it either ... Then he read the Pravda right from 1918 until 1953, and selectively - until 1991, he briefly lived the entire history of the country. And therefore I can rightfully declare that this reading is most interesting, even more interesting than many historical monographs and studies. But few of our people have the desire and ability to do so. Our Penza archive, for example, is crammed daily with people rummaging through their genealogies. That's not laziness for them, but why? Grafiev, after all, no one has ever found there in his past ... "Interesting!" “I want to know the history of the past!” Here is how? Commendable! And read the Pravda newspaper? “Oh well ...” But in vain, by the way, because a huge number of our citizens do not really know the history of their own country. How is it with Pushkin? “She eats fables!” And that is exactly the case.


Let's start on January 1, 1933 ...

By the way, this material also appeared to a certain extent as an answer to the "fables" of some experts in the history of our country - here, at VO. It was their comments that prompted me this topic. So today we will begin to get acquainted with what the newspaper Pravda, the printing organ of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, wrote about German fascists and everything that was connected with them. Well, the chronological framework will be this: from 1933 to August 1939, because after August the phrase "German fascism" disappeared from our newspaper rhetoric - until June 22, 1941. In order not to get tired of one topic, purely for the sake of interest we will add here also the “topic of success” (or some readers are offended that they are not!), And also rejoice at unique photographs of Russian scientific and technological progress!

We at VO have people who believe that German Nazism and Italian fascism are “things” that are somewhat different from each other. And yes, indeed, the way it is! It was only in the 30s that our newspaper Pravda did not distinguish between these two concepts and therefore wrote: “German fascism”, “German fascists” and so on. This must be borne in mind when you talk and write about that era, because ... it was. Well, now let's get down to the newspapers proper and be glad that without leaving our home, thanks to VO, we have the opportunity to read all this and plunge into the world of that era!


Until Hitler came to power, under his leadership, as you see, there were gangs, that is, who was he? The leader of the gang and, of course, the gangster himself. And even in Berlin, the masses of people committed suicide!

The problem was not that Nazism and fascism were confused in the 30s, but that fascism proper and the so-called social fascism existed. The last term appeared again in our USSR, but only ... in the 20s. What is their difference, who was the godfather of the latter, we will definitely tell you somehow. For now, we only note that Pravda made sure that confusion in these terms did not arise.


Everything is clear here: Hitler's supporters are the Nazis


And they constantly committed provocations against the Communist Party!


And fascism was spreading across Europe!


So Hitler became Reich Chancellor and immediately ceased to be a bandit ...


The Communist Party appealed to the German workers. But ... it didn’t lead to anything. By the way, not everyone knows that the Nazis on their way to power were not the first to be supported by the peasants, not by the workers, and not even “furious shopkeepers”, but ... associate professors of German universities! All-German trade union of associate professors! Do you know why? Hitler promised them to increase their salaries four times!



And then what happened in Germany ...


Actually, it was necessary to fight for a united anti-fascist front before, not after ...


What was bound to happen was a sort of bellie incident. The Reichstag is on fire!


And then they found a scapegoat!


The situation is just like ours with the Malaysian Boeing


They suggested, because the Social Democrats offered the Communists to unite in the elections. But they refused. "After the Nazis - we are!" - they put forward such a slogan. Yeah, you, who would let you!


And like a cherry on a cake: Telman’s arrest!


Exposed, yes! And Vaska listens, but eats!


And here is the report of atrocities in Nazi prisons. It is clear that people learned about Auschwitz and Treblinka after 1945. But what they knew then was quite enough to write about the atrocities and horrors of fascism. Or is this not enough for someone?


Continuing the theme of "atrocities" ...


But the camp in Dachau was already in 1933, and what was happening there was known!


And in other concentration camps it was no better. And this was already known in 1933!


The execution of the German Communist ...


And then the struggle for the life of the communists arrested by the Nazis began ...


As for the promised successes, then ... I would like to start here with this newspaper headline. Then, the fact that the mother is at the machine, and her child is in the nursery, was perceived as a huge victory of the new system. But already in the 80s of the last century, even in the USSR, a similar situation was perceived in a completely different way. Well, about today you can not talk. Ideals have changed a lot



Pravda wrote a lot about the construction and commissioning of the White Sea-Baltic Canal. Gorky, of course, did not write about how many people died in this construction, but he noted here with this article ...


“Thirty Fifteen” is a planted plant under article 35. And now, it turns out that even female labor was also used in the construction of this canal. But what, we undertook to erase the differences between mental labor and physical, so why not erase the differences between man and woman?


Very interesting material about the “reforging” of engineer Maslov. What is the first material that this is just a ready-made plot for a historical novel. It is a pity that now there is no one to write such novels and no one to read. And by the way, read the text more closely - how well written, right ?!


And these are photos of those who led the construction of the canal. Look at their faces and ... remember their fate. G.G. Berry - well, there was my article about him at VO. Therefore, we only name the year of death: 1938. That is, for only 5 years he had a chance to "catch". And then they banged their own. How mean and disgusting! His own! He built such a channel and what did he get in the end? Bullet in the back of the head! L.I. Kogan was sent to the next world in the 39th. True, he was rehabilitated in 1956. That is, he suffered innocently. M. D. Berman - the same year of execution and the same Kommunarka training ground, but rehabilitated in the 57th, which means that it is also an “innocent victim”. But he had an older brother Boris: he also rose to the rank of famous, and also banged him in the 39th. This is not rehabilitated. I wonder why?


The least fortunate were S.G. Firin - they plopped in 1937, but were rehabilitated in 1956. Does this mean that "spanked" about such a person can not write? But as? The “victim of repression” is probably better. But something says that both the executioners and the victims could not be there. Who was lucky was the construction specialists who were on time, members of wreckers, former White Guards-Kolchakites (that's how it is!), But lucky ... Ya. D. Rapoport died in his bed in 1962. S. Ya. Zhuk (he was the second lieutenant at Kolchak) worked well and was released on parole in the 32nd, became an academician, general, Hero of Socialist. Labor Buried in the Kremlin wall


N. A. Frenkel died in 1960, and K. A. Verzhbitsky, who was sitting under Article 58-7, received early release. And the conclusion: you need to be a good specialist not in knocking out teeth (these are usually the first to be consumed), but in designing something really worthwhile, to which the vast majority do not reach their brains. There are chances to escape in any mode!


Well, now look at the photo. It is interesting that such projects of air trains constantly fell on the pages of "Truth", "Techniques for Youth", "Science and Life", but ... so far they have not really come to fruition


The plane "Maxim Gorky." Flew in 1933. Nobody knew what was going to happen to him.


This photo from the May Day demonstration is very interesting. After all, the picture shows the T-35-1, an experimental T-35 tank, just created by our designers. Just. And already at the parade. Everything is just like with "Armata"!


Just a gorgeous photo: an iron horse replaces a peasant horse! What a pity that on the third page, and not on the first and not half a page! And it would be necessary ...


Finally, the last photo, or rather, a drawing. Not a specialist in aircraft, so I can’t say what kind of monster it is or whether it was built. Maybe one of the readers of "VO" will realize?

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Back to the Land of Soviets. Bra for a boy
Back to USSR. Information for Soviet children
Archival affairs: NKVD on peasants and Stakhanovites
Archival affairs. From “class alien” to “loss of party intuition”
Back to USSR. Mosaic of memory
By the wave of our memory
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  1. LeonidL
    LeonidL April 19 2020 04: 52
    +38
    I believe that it is simply dishonorable to evaluate history, the past, its people, style, and the press by mocking and mocking from the standpoint of the present day, as a kind of mentor to a highbrow liberal. Yes, people were simpler, not so savvy in the casuistry of the 21st century, knew little about democracy and "human rights" in the current sense. But they did their job - they built a great country, carried out industrialization, won the Second World War. And the press has made a great contribution to this cause. There was no other one. But I think that if the press of that time was a cast of today's, then industrialization would have been completely overwhelmed, and Hitler would hardly have been defeated, and the bones of the parents of the present highbrow and wise elite would have rotted in ravines, pits, and scattered ashes. Well, the survivors would count on their fingers to ten, but they would hunchback at the Aryan supermen, they would not have time to write wise articles.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather April 19 2020 05: 13
      0
      Finally, the last photo, or rather, a drawing. Not a specialist in aircraft, so I can’t say what kind of monster it is or whether it was built. Maybe one of the readers of "VO" will realize?
      the only thing that comes to mind: a fantastic project, from some sort of popular magazine.
      1. kpd
        kpd April 19 2020 08: 21
        +3
        The aircraft is similar to Kalininsky K-7 with the addition of a suspended handball.
      2. your1970
        your1970 10 June 2020 17: 34
        0
        Quote: Dead Day
        fantastic project

        there it is written in Russian in a newspaper article - "Construction completed new powerful propaganda aircraft named after the Central Committee of the Komsomol "
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 19 2020 06: 50
      -22%
      Quote: LeonidL
      a story pastHis people, style, the press jerking and mocking with today's positions, a kind of mentor highbrow liberal-just dishonest. yes people were easier


      If you think that a hundred years ago people were dumber, thick-skinned. more primitive, easier, in feelings, evaluations, actions, pain, fear, joy, etc., you are mistaken.

      They were the same: they were afraid of the same, they were happy about the same, they wanted the same, they were also valued and they were said and experienced with the same words and feelings: this is clearly seen in Russian literature, it is seen and heard in newspapers, diaries, memoirs of Russian society, brilliant speeches of deputies in the Duma, lawyers in the jury, etc.

      Well, many saw everything in the post-VOR times, but other, not "Pravdovskie" press, books, courts, speeches, were simply banned.

      Quote: LeonidL
      But they did their job - they built a great country, conducted industrialization, and won the Second World War.

      Before the thief, there was no great country?

      1. Where did the thieves get tens of thousands of teachers, scientists, writers, millions of workers. funds from Switzerland brought with them, with tattered socks together?

      2. At first, the Bolsheviks carried out a de-installation, destroying the economy in a civil slaughterhouse that they had brewed.

      3.Without their Brest WWII would simply not exist, for 1945 would have been made back then, in 1918 g
      Quote: LeonidL
      And the press has made a great contribution to this cause.

      This, I recall, in 1933, the country experienced the most terrible tragedy in its history in peacetime: several months more people died from starvation in terrible torment than several people died in WWII at the front in several years.

      show in that so-called. "press" even the WORD about it.
      Only fools!

      People cattle, cattle, what do not have the right to know and talk about it ?!
      Quote: LeonidL
      But I think that if the press of the time were today's cast, then industrialization would have been completely ruined, and Hitler would hardly have been defeated, and the bones of the parents of the current highbrow and wise elite would have rotted in yars

      To think otherwise, you just need to know the history of your country for a thousand years, she coped with ALL enemies in hundreds of wars. survived and grew into the largest country in the world.

      But under the "great" creators, the Blolsheviks, for some reason, it was reduced to the borders of the 17th century with a dying out population ...
      1. don-1500
        don-1500 April 19 2020 07: 57
        +18
        But "civil carnage brewed" as you put it, just the same not the Bolsheviks. The role of Kornilov, Denikin, Cossack separatism and other interventionists in the unleashing is a hundred times greater. The fault of the tsarist government and then of the Provisional (British agent Kerensky) in the collapse of Russia is quite obvious. Hunger, chaos, Makhnovshchina almost in every district, officers with bruised faces and torn off shoulder straps on the streets of Petrograd, all this was before the thief.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 19 2020 08: 08
          -25%
          Quote: don-1500
          But "civil carnage brewed" as you put it, just the same not the Bolsheviks. The role of Kornilov, Denikin, Cossack separatism and other interventionists in the unleashing is a hundred times greater.

          Before thieves, civil war, no.
          After the thief and dispersal US-war.
          "matched", yes ...

          Oh, maybe even you say (otherwise no one can) why dozens of millions of people (the majority) who voted AGAINST the Bolsheviks should have ... submitted to them?
          Quote: don-1500
          The guilt of the tsarist government and then of the Provisional (British agent Kerensky) in the collapse of Russia is quite obvious. Famine, chaos, Makhnovism in almost every county, officers with battered faces and torn shoulder straps on the streets of Petrograd, all this was before the BOP.

          1. As a result of the war, ALL countries have weakened. And this is not a reason for the animals to beat in the back, taking advantage of weakness.

          2. ALL independence - AFTER THIEF, as a result of ITS principles: see stupid. decree on the so-called world and so-called declaration of the rights of the peoples of Russia
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene April 19 2020 11: 57
            +11
            Quote: Olgovich
            Before thieves, civil war, no.
            After the thief and dispersal US-war.

            Lying again. The civil war began in March 1918.

            And learn the story. Civil wars are attributes of any revolution, even boop \ rzhuaznoy, remember the Great French Revolution, remember the other revolution. Everywhere the overthrown class began the counter-revolution, i.e. the war of grapes.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 19 2020 13: 59
              -17%
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Lying again. The civil war began in March 1918.

              Again you carry GRED: what March 1918?

              Foreign tourists from Switzerland recognized gr. the war as early as NOVEMBER 1917

              To school, ignoramus!
              Quote: Alexander Green
              And learn the story. Civil wars are attributes of any revolution, even boop \ rzhuaznoy, remember the Great French Revolution, remember the other revolution. Everywhere ousted class began counterrevolutionw, i.e. the war of grapes.


              Yeah when You attacked first to power, this is .... not a "beginning." belay
              But when in response to you ALWAYS gave, this is the "beginning" fool lol

              ps You can be beaten calmly first, I understand correctly, this is not an attack? lol
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene April 19 2020 14: 17
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                Again you carry GRED: what March 1918?

                Guilty, so angry at your bullshit that you made a mistake
                Read Civil War beginnings in March 1917

                Quote: Olgovich
                Yeah, when YOU were the first to attack the authorities, this is .... not a "beginning".

                And the beginning was with the advent of the exploitation by the authorities of the common people, by that time the working people had accumulated centuries-old hatred of the oppressors.

                At first it spilled over into riots and peasant uprisings, remember Razin, Pugochev, etc. .. but the working people managed to defeat only when an organized class appeared - the proletariat, guided by revolutionary theory - Marxism.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich April 19 2020 20: 42
                  -9
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Read Civil War beginnings in March 1917

                  Oh new green "historian" fool lol
                  Ignorant, see Stalin's "short course I. VKPBE":
                  And this association has developed in
                  the first half of 1918.
                  So there was a foreign military intervention against Soviet power,
                  supported by the counter-revolutionary rebellions of the enemies of Soviet power inside
                  Russia.
                  So the respite ended and civil war began in Russia, that is
                  war of the workers and peasants of the peoples of 216 Russia against external and internal
                  enemies of Soviet power.

                  Got it, no?
                  Take ANY owl tutorial, you will see the same.

                  Do not carry nonsense from yourself.
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And the beginning was with the advent of exploitation by the authorities of the common people, by that time the working people had accumulated centuries-old hatred of the oppressors.

                  Oh so in which century ndid the war start? Already not March 17? lol
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  At first it spilled over into riots and peasant uprisings, remember Razin, Pugochev, etc. .. but win the working people succeeded only when an organized class appeared - the proletariat, guided by revolutionary theory - Marxism.

                  The people lost to the bandits, who seized power by deception and force in 10.1917
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene April 19 2020 23: 38
                    +3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Oh new green "historian"

                    Did you really forget what happened in Russia after February 1917 in the Baltic Fleet in the Black Sea Fleet, when the sailors recalled all the bullying and serfdom from the gentlemen of the officers, how in the village the peasants seized the landowners' lands, burning their estates, remembering how they had been smashed at the stables , battles for the Durnovo cottage, for Crosses, armed clashes in July, the Kornilov attack on Petrograd and its defeat by the Red Guard, and much more. What if not a civil war?
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich April 20 2020 08: 22
                      -7
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      . What if not a civil war?
                      go to the Soviet SCHOOL , LEARN WHEN it is ACKNOWLEDGED by the begun and do not carry the mead here.

                      April 18, 10:05
                      From the incident report for April 17, 2020
                      According to the data of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia for the Nizhny Novgorod Region, in the Department of Internal Affairs of the region on April 17, 2020 1672 crime reports received. 72 crimes recorded in

                      In your opinion, there is a civil war, i.e. criminality is ... Civil ... "war", belay ... fool lol
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene April 20 2020 09: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        go to the Soviet SCHOOL, learn WHEN it is RECOGNIZED started and do not carry the mead here.

                        Oh, you already began to recognize the Soviet school! This is progress. If this goes on, then Zyuganov will take you to his Communist Party and write you a ticket at number 2 ...

                        But let’s leave the jokes, you forgot that History is a science and, like any science, it develops, and that from the height of time, many events are seen differently and are overestimated.

                        To date, historians have no consensus on how to determine the chronology of the Civil War. There are experts who believe that the war began with the February bourgeois revolution, others defend May 1918. There is also no final opinion when the war is over.

                        It would be more correct to consider that the beginning of the Civil War was armed confrontation that arose in the summer of 1917 and continued until November 1918Yes, when the main centers of the anti-Bolshevik movement were formed.

                        Therefore, in the history of the civil war there are 4 stages:

                        The first stage: the summer of 1917 - November 1918 - the formation of the main centers of the Bolshevik and anti-Bolshevik movement.

                        The second stage: November 1918 - April 1919 - the beginning of the intervention of the Entente.

                        The third stage: May 1919 - April 1920 - the simultaneous struggle of Soviet Russia against the white armies and troops of the Entente

                        The fourth stage: May 1920 - November 1922 (summer 1923) - the defeat of the White armies, the end of the civil war

                        But I, as the “HISTORIAN” recognized by you, consider that the formation of the main centers
                        the confrontation has begun since March 1917 when the State Duma and Councils were formed.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 20 2020 10: 54
                        -8
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Oh, you already began to recognize the Soviet school!

                        you betray Soviet school, Lenin, Stalin, their teaching and thoughts on c. war! angry belay

                        Shame .... negative
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        that History is a science and, like any science, it develops, and that from the height of time, many events are seen differently

                        Those. Lenin, Stalin were, in your opinion ..... Turks and did not realize that is going on around them? belay fool lol

                        Bravo! good

                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        But I, as the “HISTORIAN” recognized by you, I thinkthat the formation of major centers
                        The confrontation began in March 1917 when the State Duma and Soviets were formed.

                        "to whom and the mare-bride!" (FROM) lol
                      3. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene April 20 2020 18: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you betray the Soviet school, Lenin, Stalin, their teachings and thoughts about c. war!

                        After such a comment, Zyuganov will definitely take you to his Communist Party.
                        But they won’t take you to the Bolsheviks - you don’t know how to think, you are angry at communism and how you memorize hunfeibin quotes.

                        I just didn't think you were so blinkered. In a word, the accuser, who will find a quote and, apart from her and his nose, sees nothing - "nodules interfere." In this way, you look like Shpakovsky, he is also a raider,

                        But the classics of Marxism taught us: Marxism is not long, but a living, developing doctrine. One of its constituent parts is historical materialism, which is also developing.

                        So the historical science characterizing the revolutionary struggle notes that the forms of civil war are diverse: uprisings, armed clashes, large-scale operations involving regular armies, partisan actions, terror, sabotage, etc.

                        The civil war originates in the depths of the class confrontation, so the exact date of its beginning cannot be determined. This is the date of the war between states can be called exactly when there is a border crossing or the start of hostilities,

                        So we can assume that the civil war, as a process of armed confrontation of various classes, classes and population groups began in the spring of 1917.

                        Some of her episodes took place already in 1917 (the February-March events of 1917, the July confrontation in Petrograd, peasant uprisings against landowners, the Kornilov’s speech, the October battles in Moscow and other cities), and in the spring and summer of 1918 she acquired large-scale, front-line character
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich April 21 2020 08: 25
                        -5
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        After such a comment, Zyuganov will definitely take you to his Communist Party.
                        But they won’t take you to the Bolsheviks - you don’t know how to think, you are angry at communism and how you memorize hunfeibin quotes.

                        I just didn't think you were so blinkered. In a word, the accuser, who will find a quote and, apart from her and his nose, sees nothing - "nodules interfere." In this way, you look like Shpakovsky, he is also a raider,

                        Do not break the Rules IN: discuss the ARTICLE. and not commentators, your "opinions" about them, up to one. yeah
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Civil war is emerging in the depths class confrontation

                        Ignoramus, and the war between nations in one state is what? fool
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        So we can assume that the civil war,

                        So you did not answer a simple question: you think you are smarter Lenin, Stalin?
                        They, contemporaries, did not believe that they were living in a ... civil war.
                        And NOBODY in the USSR thought so. -Read TSB, etc. ignoramus

                        But then a green one appeared .... "historian" fool lol and taught everyone laughing
                      5. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene April 21 2020 14: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Do not break the Rules IN: discuss the ARTICLE. and not commentators, your "opinions" about them, up to one. yeah.
                        So you did not answer a simple question: do you consider yourself smarter than Lenin, Stalin?

                        First of all, what a stupid question? We are only smarter than you and Shpakovsky, and I'm just a student of V.I. Lenin and I.V. Stalin.
                        Secondly, how to classify this your question? Discussion of an article or commentator?

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        They, contemporaries, did not believe that they were living in a ... civil war.
                        And NOBODY in the USSR thought so. -Read TSB, etc. ignoramus

                        I don’t know what to name those. who does not understand that: "everything flows, everything changes", call yourself, I just want to repeat the words of I.V. Stalin "Marxism has never been, but a guide to action" (Collected works .. vol. 8 "Closing remarks on the report on November 3")
  • Octopus
    Octopus April 19 2020 14: 58
    +1
    Quote: don-1500
    The role of Kornilov, Denikin, Cossack separatism and other interventionists in unleashing a hundred times more

    What an interesting list of interventionists.
    Quote: don-1500
    The guilt of the tsarist government and then of the Provisional (British agent Kerensky) in the collapse of Russia is quite obvious.

    Here you are right. The Russia that we lost was killed by the liberals in the person of Kerensky and, above all, the old regime.
    1. don-1500
      don-1500 April 19 2020 15: 15
      +1
      Wrong, sorry. I wanted to write "all sorts" instead of "others" (in the sense of the British, in the north and in Baku, the Japanese in the Far East)
      1. Octopus
        Octopus April 19 2020 15: 27
        -7
        And what are your complaints about the interventionists? They did not touch the Bolsheviks anywhere. In fact, they generally sided with the Bolsheviks, somewhat strangling the states of Eastern Europe created by the Germans. It was later, already in the ХV period, that Soviet propaganda invented all kinds of nonsense.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr April 19 2020 17: 35
      +4
      Quote: Octopus
      The Russia that we lost was killed by the liberals in the person of Kerensky and, above all, the old regime.

      It is difficult to disagree with this - it was the king’s encirclement that betrayed him first of all, and the ruling class, like fools in a fire, arranged dances around the tsar’s abdication. This sowed confusion throughout Russia, and even Lenin and the CPSU (b) simply seized power, which no one wanted to maintain after the summer of 1917. If there hadn’t been a February revolution, there would have been no October revolution - now all literate people understand who have no brains in their brains with propaganda of either the left or the left wing.
      1. Octopus
        Octopus April 19 2020 17: 44
        -2
        Quote: ccsr
        it was the king’s surroundings and betrayed him in the first place,

        With the king it was necessary to resolve the issue long before 1917. Cowardly Russian liberals, as is customary with them, how they feared real power like fire.

        Well, comrade Lenin and comrade Trotsky was not afraid of anything like that.
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir April 19 2020 08: 18
    +9
    But under the "great" creators, the Blolsheviks, for some reason, it was reduced to the borders of the 17th century with a dying out population ...
    Well now it has expanded. and there are only angels in power., the new billionaire Lilya Rotenberg, where did it come from?
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 19 2020 08: 26
      -19%
      Quote: Gardamir
      Well now it has expanded. and there are only angels in power., the new billionaire Lilya Rotenberg, where did it come from?

      But after the Thieves, millions of lily millionaires appeared.

      True, for some reason, these "millionaires" with millions of hunger were dying in 21,22,24,25,32,33,37,46,47 years. did not fit .... request
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir April 19 2020 08: 32
        +8
        1,22,24,25,32,33,37,46,47 years. did not fit
        aren't you funny yourself? You did not live then, but the 90s were zero and you saw everything further, but you shyly close your eyes. Talk about today, prove that everything is fine, then back to the discussion of the past.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich April 19 2020 10: 38
          -12%
          Quote: Gardamir
          1,22,24,25,32,33,37,46,47 years. did not fit
          aren't you funny yourself?

          Laugh at herself terrible human disaster in the history of the country in peacetime? belay

          This is WHAT it is not necessary to be? request
          Quote: Gardamir
          You did not live then, but the 90s were zero and you saw everything further, but you shyly close your eyes.

          didn’t live, so .... was there nothing? belay
          In the 90s, the nulls were this:
          33 year: YEY DISTRICT. Village Dolzhanskaya, tr. G **** ate the corpse of the dead sister's owl.
          In the same village. D ***, after the death of his father and mother, he ate with young sisters and brothers meat of brothers and sisters starving.
          ?

          or this is the 37th year, the year of already built socialism, klektivization, mechanization and socialization:
          In Litvinovsky, Svishchevsky, Neverkinsky and Chembarsky areas noted 10 starvation deaths. There are facts of swelling, eating meat of dead animals, various surrogates and diseases of collective farmers from malnutrition. In the Svishchevsky district, 62 facts of swelling of collective farmers from malnutrition were noted, in the Staro-Kulatkinsky district - 55, Teleginsky - 17, Golovinshinsky - 10, Litvinovsky - 16, etc. and so on
          ? Bring it!
          Quote: Gardamir
          Let's talk about today, prove that everything is fine, then back to the discussion of the past


          No, let's compare today's with what is described above.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir April 19 2020 12: 27
            +3
            Laugh at the worst human disaster in the history of the country in peacetime?
            Are you talking about the 90s?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich April 19 2020 14: 14
              -9
              Quote: Gardamir
              Are you talking about the 90s?

              belay You do not know the most terrible tragedy in the history of the country ?!

              When throughout a few MONTHS (32-33 years), several MILLIONS died people from hunger, with cannibalism ?!

              This is how it is necessary not to love your people, your History, your country, no words!

              Keep more documents from the NKVD:
              St. Novo-Scherbinovskaya. In the 3rd collective farm brigade, wife E *** hacked to death and "ate her 3-year-old child, E *** family consists of 8 people who eat various surrogates (surepa, silo, etc.) and meat of cats and dogs.

              The cemetery found up to 30 corpses thrown out during the night, some of the corpses were bitten by dogs. The corpse of the collective farmer REZNIK was cut in half, without legs, tI also found several coffins, from which the corpses disappeared.

              In the 3rd brigade, wife C *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them.
              The apartment is found corpse of a girl with legs cut off and boiled meat is found.

              Page 3
              TYHORETSK DISTRICT. The village of Irklievskaya. At the cemetery, the 14-year-old son of the solitary girl A ***, who dug up the corpse of a child, intending to eat it, was tortured, the corpse was selected.

              KUSHCHEVSKY DISTRICT. St. Novo-Pashkovskaya. In the family of an individual farmer, the middle peasant P ** *** died from a prolonged hunger strike: the head of the family P ***, son M *** 14 years old and son G *** 9 years old. Wife P ** - H *** *** carried the corpses of the dead to the cellar, throwing snow.
              and such documents THOUSANDS throughout the country in 1947.

              I don’t understand: if they didn’t say at school, then ... there was nothing7 request
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri April 19 2020 16: 29
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                and such documents THOUSANDS throughout the country in 1947.

                Is it possible to link to these "THOUSANDS" (c) documents? It was in 1947.
            2. ser56
              ser56 April 19 2020 20: 05
              -4
              Quote: Gardamir
              Are you talking about the 90s?

              The time was dashing, but no one died of hunger in the 90s ... request
            3. Icelord
              Icelord April 20 2020 14: 19
              -1
              and that 90, I was good at 90, even better than now
        2. Icelord
          Icelord April 19 2020 10: 55
          -3
          And that it was normal, I lived well
          1. Icelord
            Icelord April 19 2020 10: 56
            +1
            It’s harder now
    2. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 19 2020 08: 30
      +2
      We at VO have people who believe that German Nazism and Italian fascism are “things” that are somewhat different from each other. And yes, indeed, the way it is!


      But the German antifascists, did not think so:

      Quote: Learn Colonel Cassad
      On the topic of fabrications "But in Germany there was no fascism, there was Nazism, and there was fascism in Italy, and in general, fascism in Germany was invented by Soviet propaganda."
      Pictured is the Karl Liebknecht House, the headquarters of the Communist Party of Germany since 1926. Caption: "Take anti-fascist actions against war, famine and fascism. Vote for the Communists. Vote for the KKE. CNG - list number 3».
      The German Communist Party of the times of the Weimar Republic apparently was not aware that there was no fascism in Germany.


  • Same lech
    Same lech April 19 2020 10: 15
    0
    in a few months, several times more people died from hunger in terrible agony than died in WWII at the front in several years.

    Well, just say, seven billion died ... why trifle.
    Always in such cases it is necessary to rely on verified sources and facts, but simply emotionally state the numbers that you want to bend as much as possible well, this is not serious.
    1. ser56
      ser56 April 19 2020 20: 13
      0
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Well, just say, seven billion died ... why trifle.



      THE STATE DUMA
      OF THE FEDERAL MEETING OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
      FIFTH CONVOCATION
      STATEMENT
      from 2 April to 2008 year
      IN MEMORY OF VICTIMS OF HUNGER OF 30-X IN THE TERRITORY OF THE USSR

      The State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation shares the tribulations with the peoples of the former USSR in connection with the 75th anniversary of the terrible tragedy - the famine of the 30s, which covered a significant part of the territory of the Soviet Union.

      Archival documents examined by modern historians reveal not only the scale of the tragedy, but also its causes. The following tasks were solved by extraordinary methods: to destroy the small proprietors, to forcibly collectivize agriculture and push the peasants out of the village in order to obtain an army of workers for the accelerated industrialization of the country.

      As a result of the famine caused by forced collectivization, many regions of the RSFSR (the Volga region, the Central Black Earth Region, the North Caucasus, the Urals, Crimea, part of Western Siberia), Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and Belarus were affected. From starvation and diseases associated with malnutrition, in 1932-1933 there diedcolo 7 million person...
      request

      ..
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Always in such cases it is necessary to rely on verified sources and facts, but simply emotionally state the numbers that you want to bend as much as possible well, this is not serious.

      will the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation arrange for you with its verification and seriousness? hi Or do you need something else?
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene April 19 2020 11: 52
    +5
    Quote: Olgovich
    2. At first, the Bolsheviks carried out a de-installation, destroying the economy in a civil slaughterhouse that they had brewed.

    Stop lying so shamelessly already.

    Wasn’t the tsarist government with the bourgeoisie almost 4 years of World War II profiting from the slaughter and plundering the military and other property during the First World War?

    Didn’t the White Guard hordes torment Russia from all sides and destroy factories, factories, iron ravines and all infrastructure during the 4 years of the civil war?

    Most recently, at the forum, you and your accomplices admired the raid of Mamontov, who blew up bridges in the rear of the Red Army, burning and robbing warehouses.
  • Kronos
    Kronos April 19 2020 12: 25
    -1
    Yes, people were more primitive before and more morally more wild culture and civilization truly took shape on the planet in the 20th century
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 19 2020 14: 21
      -6
      Quote: Kronos
      Yes people
      were more primitive before and more morals more wild
      culture and civilization truly took shape on the planet in the 20th century

      Exactly, the "savagery of morals" from "primitive" people:
      I remember a wonderful moment:
      Before me was you,
      As a fleeting vision,
      As a genius of pure beauty.

      In the weariness of sadness is hopeless,
      In troubles of noisy bustle,
      A long, gentle voice sounded to me
      And dreamed of cute features.

      Years passed. A riot of rebellion
      He scattered his old dreams,
      And I forgot your tender voice,
      Your heavenly features.

      In the wilderness, in the darkness of the confinement
      My days quietly dragged on
      Without a deity, without inspiration,
      Without tears, without life, without love.

      An awakening has come to the soul:
      And again you appeared,
      As a fleeting vision,
      As a genius of pure beauty.

      And the heart beats in ecstasy,
      And for him they resurrected again
      And the deity, and inspiration,
      And life, and tears, and love.

      This "wildness" is almost TEN years ...yes
      1. Kronos
        Kronos April 19 2020 14: 45
        -3
        And what does the poem have to do with it? There was no mass education accessible to the whole population, medicine, equal rights between men and women,
        1. ser56
          ser56 April 19 2020 20: 16
          -2
          Quote: Kronos
          There was no mass education accessible to the whole population,

          curious where did lomonosov come from? OR how did the same GKZH get an education? what
          Quote: Kronos
          equal rights between men and women,

          what rights? give birth to ? repeat
    2. ccsr
      ccsr April 19 2020 17: 39
      +3
      Quote: Kronos
      Yes, people were more primitive before and more morally more wild culture and civilization truly took shape on the planet in the 20th century

      This is such a controversial issue that if we evaluate it by culture and savagery, we can conclude that in the 19th century the peoples were more humane in pain, and if they destroyed each other, then without chemical attacks and the use of nuclear weapons.
  • Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay April 19 2020 08: 36
    0
    Well, I think that what kind of power, such and the press.
  • Rate
    Rate April 19 2020 09: 18
    +2
    Quote: LeonidL
    I think that evaluating history, the past, its people, style, the press, scoffing and mocking from the standpoint of today, such a mentor as a high-minded liberal, is simply dishonorable.

    Absolutely true comrade ..! Enemies cannot forgive us the creation of the Great Country of the USSR and cleanse the memory of it ..

    It all happened, but the memory of the people cannot be etched ..
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 19 2020 11: 20
      +1
      And who are the enemies?
    2. Icelord
      Icelord April 20 2020 14: 20
      -3
      This yes cannibal do not forget
  • Mihail2019
    Mihail2019 April 19 2020 13: 47
    +5
    I completely agree! To consider ancestors as idiots is to consider oneself as near-minded!
    And the author would still advise writing articles about weapons - it’s much more interesting and informative.
    And the experiments on exposing the "damned commies" for the former, but on time and successfully "changed shoes" in the air, the teacher of the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, it is better to write not in "VO" nevertheless ..
  • Mitroha
    Mitroha April 19 2020 06: 29
    +21
    The author, thanks for the excursion, but, excuse me, but why accompany this with sarcastic comments? A little silly like that.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 19 2020 09: 14
      +2
      Quote: Mitroha
      The author, thanks for the excursion, but, excuse me, but why accompany this with sarcastic comments? A little silly like that.

      Hoping to meet the vulgar readers. negative A better ----- educate the vulgar negative fool connoisseurs
      Sorry, I'm not an author, of course, but the answer came instantly
    2. Icelord
      Icelord April 19 2020 11: 21
      -3
      This Vyachislav Olegovich is very soft, if I wrote ....
    3. Mihail2019
      Mihail2019 April 19 2020 13: 53
      +5
      And this is called - duplicity! Under the Union - a communist, now - an ardent anti-communist. In short - a slug!
      He who feeds satisfactorily praises him!
      1. Icelord
        Icelord April 19 2020 14: 57
        -2
        This is called reason, I was also a company’s Komsomol, but I don’t know how to think about a new information and draw a conclusion, and a traitor is a failure, if it turned out he’s a heroic fighter against tyranny
  • Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal April 19 2020 07: 11
    +11
    Dear author! I read your article with pleasure. I don’t know how anyone, but I’m a "lover" of old newspapers ... the only thing I disagree with is
    And read the Pravda newspaper? “Oh well ...” But in vain, by the way, because a huge number of our citizens do not really know the history of their own country.

    You can study the history of propaganda in the newspaper Pravda, but not the history of the state of the USSR .... Do you not understand this ????
    1. kalibr
      April 19 2020 07: 46
      +2
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      The Pravda newspaper can be used to study the history of propaganda, but not the history of the state of the USSR ...

      You are wrong, Vitaly! The newspaper reports on many events that have never been included in history textbooks and even in solid monographs, do you agree? Second, the events that you call propaganda also took place. Propaganda is how they are covered. And here is the difference between what we know about the events "later" and the way they were covered shows a very important thing - the degree of trust of the authorities in their people. I think that you will agree with this too. So history can also be studied in newspapers. Although, of course, you should not be limited only to them.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave April 19 2020 08: 17
        0
        Hello, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thank you for the article!
        Propaganda is how they were covered.
        In this vein, it would be interesting to analyze the coverage of events by major publications from different countries: Pravda, Times, Paris Mach, Washington Post.
        1. kalibr
          April 19 2020 08: 25
          -5
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          In this vein, it would be interesting to analyze the coverage of events by major publications from different countries: Pravda, Times, Paris Mach, Washington Post.

          I am for! A certain amount in cash (or on a card) and how quarantine will be canceled ... I fly out, leave, for example, to the library of the US Congress ... and work! Question: who will give it in the right size? And sitting here on the Internet you won’t find anything! Checked!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 19 2020 08: 38
            +2
            This is unlikely. Having the necessary amount, you would rather prefer to work a month in the archives of Warsaw. I know about your dream.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 April 19 2020 09: 24
            +6
            Quote: kalibr
            A certain amount in cash (or on a card) and how quarantine will be canceled ... I fly out, leave, for example, to the library of the US Congress ... and work!

            And what, are there not enough fees? And so VO is on the porch, so that your opus in the form of these kind of photos should be paid, and then you also need a separate money? Interrupt. repeat
            1. Icelord
              Icelord April 19 2020 11: 23
              +1
              Any work must be paid (s)
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 April 19 2020 11: 54
                +6
                Quote: Icelord
                Any work must be paid.

                So pay him a trip to America. winked
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 19 2020 15: 00
                  -4
                  I don’t need how I know there, I have a sister there, I go every year, that’s the truth because of the virus it may not work
              2. Looking for
                Looking for April 19 2020 14: 29
                +2
                and for any word you have to answer.
                1. Icelord
                  Icelord April 19 2020 15: 01
                  0
                  Do you remember this, otherwise I'll ask
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 19 2020 10: 25
          +4
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Hello, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thank you for the article!
          Propaganda is how they were covered.
          In this vein, it would be interesting to analyze the coverage of events by major publications from different countries: Pravda, Times, Paris Mach, Washington Post.

          Hello Anton!
          And Volkisher Baobachter - German national observer)).
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave April 19 2020 10: 42
            0
            Albert! hi
            There is one subtlety here, Shpakovsky with the German language is very "you". Although the German archives are among the most accessible and digitized in the world.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 11: 51
              +1
              Duc help - no question, even with the German I kneel Your Highness! laughing
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 19 2020 11: 55
                0
                Well, you are a famous polyglot! good
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 19 2020 12: 00
                  0
                  That is not - Russian, English, Hebrew, even a patrol and obscene Arabic German - at the level of "how much does radiotherapy for prostate cancer after trans-urethral resection cost?" laughing
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 07
                    0
                    Hmmm. You still left for Israel as a schoolboy ... Do not they study Arabic in Israeli schools, or only optionally?
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 12: 11
                      +2
                      By choice - as an additional foreign language, not obligatory. I, for a higher score of the matriculation certificate (upon admission to the tower, the average score of the unary entrance exam and certificate was taken) took Russian as an additional foreign language. Mandatory foreign - English only
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 19
                        0
                        In any case, you have the ability for languages.
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 19 2020 12: 41
                        +2
                        I have a hutspa laughing The impudence to speak any language without complexes - competently-not competently, anyhow understood - the rest does not soar me))
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 50
                        0
                        Have you tried Swahili? laughing
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 19 2020 12: 56
                        0
                        It will be necessary for work - I will quickly master laughing
                        Mtoto anasoma kitabu - child is reading a book. Kitaba - in Hebrew ktav - scripture, ketuva - religious marriage contract - in short - EASY fellow
                      5. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2020 13: 01
                        0
                        I expected this kind of answer. good
                        - in short - EASY
                        Well, yes, and a spoon in Japanese: "soup".
                      6. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 19 2020 13: 07
                        0
                        Like a spoon? Arigato, Anton! laughing
                      7. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2020 13: 14
                        0
                        Well, I mean, "soup" meant, not a subject featured in the old American army talk. laughing
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent April 19 2020 08: 49
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    So newspaper stories can also be studied.

    Only in-depth analysis textured material of the press, documents and other things, will save you from annoying mistakes and errors:
    We at VO have people who believe that German Nazism and Italian fascism are “things” that are somewhat different from each other. And yes, indeed, the way it is!

    Check out my comment above on this.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich April 19 2020 09: 57
    -11%
    Quote: kalibr
    The newspaper reports on many events that never got into history books or even solid monographs, do you agree?

    The converse is also true: the greatest events of the country arenot a word not mentioned in that so-called "press" - the same hunger, extrajudicial robbery and exile of millions of peasants, etc., etc.

    Quote: kalibr
    So newspaper stories can also be studied. Although, of course, you should not be limited only to them.

    It is possible, as a certain, small part of it.

    I read with great interest the newspapers of those years, there are scans of Truth and Izvestia, it is very interesting HOW today they chewed and awarded those who were smeared tomorrow


    Here, for example, ... children's magazine Murzilka


    steel commissar N.I. Yezhov, he is active and passive, yes ....
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 15: 06
      -1
      Quote: Olgovich
      steel commissar

      Oh, I love him.
      In the sparkle of lightning you became familiar to us
      Yezhov, sharp-eyed and clever commissar.
      Great Lenin wise word
      Raised for the battle of the hero Yezhov.
      Great Stalin's fiery call
      I heard with all my heart, with all the blood of Yezhov.
      When the October dawns shone
      He stormed the palace with courage in his eyes.
      When the horizon flared up in war
      He mounted his horse and rode to the front.
      There was a class against a class. The earth was blazing
      And the homeland was bleeding in those days.
      Enemies squeezed us in an ominous ring -
      Iron and steel, fire and lead.
      I remember the past. In the sunsets crimson
      I see through the smoke of Commissioner Yezhov.
      Flashing with damask steel, he boldly leads
      In the attack, people dressed in greatcoats.
      He beats, learning from the great batyrs,
      Such as Sergo, Voroshilov and Kirov.
      With fighters he is affectionate, with enemies harsh,
      In battles, a seasoned, brave Yezhov.
      When sunrise rose over the steppes
      And the Kazakh people squared their shoulders,
      When the shepherds rebelled against the bais,
      Yezhov sent us Lenin and Stalin.
      Yezhov arrived and, dispelling the fog,
      Kazakhstan raised the battle for happiness
      The people behind Yezhov went on the offensive.
      Golden visions came true in reality.
      Yezhov Miroedov drove over the ridges,
      He repulsed herds, their herds and herds.
      We parted forever with a Bayan deception,
      Spring has flourished in the steppes of Kazakhstan
      More magnificent and more beautiful than our past dreams.
      Here everyone loves you, comrade Yezhov!
      And the people echo, gathering around:
      - Hello to you, Stalin's loyal friend!
      And the enemy is wary, embittered and bitter.
      Listen: villains crawl at night
      Crawling along ravines, bear savages
      Nagans and bombs, cholera bacilli ...
      But you meet them, strong and severe
      Tested in the flame of the battle of Hedgehogs.
      The enemies of our lives, the enemies of millions
      The Trotskyist gangs of spies crawled towards us,
      Bukharinites, cunning snakes of swamps,
      Nationalists embittered rabble ..
      They rejoiced, carrying us fetters
      But the animals fell into the traps of Yezhov.
      Great Stalin's loyal friend
      Yezhov tore their betrayal circle.
      Disclosed snake enemy breed
      Through the eyes of Yezhov, through the eyes of the people.
      All poisonous hedgehogs snakes trapped
      And he smoked reptiles from holes and dens.
      The whole scorpion breed is defeated
      Hands Yezhov - the hands of the people.
      And Lenin's order, burning with fire,
      It was given to you, Stalin's loyal commissar.
      You are a sword, drawn calmly and menacingly,
      The fire that scorched the snake nests
      You are the bullet for all scorpions and snakes
      You are the eye of a country that diamond is clearer.
      The gray-haired chronicler, witness of the era,
      Absorbing all the glee and sighs
      One hundred years old, ancient Dzhambul
      I heard a growing rumble in the steppe.
      Million-voiced voiced word
      Flies from peoples to Batyr Yezhov:
      - Thank you Yezhov for waking me up,
      You are standing guard over the country and the leader!


      And as for activity, you are boiling in vain, in those years you looked at it easier.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich April 19 2020 20: 54
        -4
        Quote: Octopus
        Oh, adore him
        In the sparkle of lightning you became familiar to us
        Yezhov, sharp-eyed and clever commissar.
        Great Lenin wise word
        Raised for the battle of the hero Yezhov.
        Yezhov or akyn?

        This akyn has tons of such wonderful songs lol

        But Berry, he did not write. And no one wrote to him like that: he was looking. I was looking, but alas ... Only anniversary speeches he found ...
        Quote: Octopus
        And about activity You are boiling in vain, in those years you looked at it easier.

        What about passivity? lol
        1. Octopus
          Octopus April 20 2020 00: 46
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          passivity?

          If not a party, then it is possible. #LoveWins.
          Quote: Olgovich
          Yezhov or akyn?

          Both of them.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich April 20 2020 09: 23
            -3
            Quote: Octopus

            Both of them.

            One did not know the Russian language, but wrote songs, the other ...- seldom anyone evokes a feeling of greater nastiness ....
            1. Octopus
              Octopus April 20 2020 10: 41
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              One did not know the Russian language, but wrote songs,

              Quote: Octopus
              The gray-haired chronicler, witness of the era,
              Absorbing all the glee and sighs
              One hundred years old, ancient Dzhambul
              I heard a growing rumble in the steppe.
              Million-voiced voiced word
              Flies from peoples to Batyr Yezhov:

              Isn't that perfect? Is Ms. Simonyan so capable? What nonsense is she writing about Moscow living rooms there? Just spit with annoyance!
              Quote: Olgovich
              -Often, who causes a feeling of greater nastiness ....

              Uh, don't tell me.
              I cleaned 14 security officers. But my great fault is that I cleaned them a little

              Not only Chekists, I must admit.

              I can say little good about Comrade. Stalin and the native state security organs, but you see the years of life of some early Soviet ghoul - and it’s getting warmer on your heart.

              Yes, I can agree that the structures of Comrade Yezhov was killed not by early Soviet ghouls, but by random people, some of whom arbitrarily turned out to be Early Soviet ghouls. But in the early 30s, the peak of the genocide of the Russian and other peoples, just the ghouls of the old woman with a scythe, basically bypassed generally. So I have light colors for the portrait of Nikolai Ivanovich.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich April 20 2020 11: 09
                -4
                Quote: Octopus
                Isn't that perfect?

                Funny-for this I read
                Quote: Octopus
                Uh, don't tell me.

                I’ll say: such a mixture of atrocities, hypocrisy, cowardice, betrayal, hypocrisy, stupidity, illiteracy, even among those ghouls, it’s hard to find ...
                1. Octopus
                  Octopus April 20 2020 11: 25
                  +3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  atrocities, hypocrisy, cowardice, betrayal, bigotry, stupidity, illiteracy


                  The path to success is hard. Intraspecific struggle encourages the fittest.

                  Nikolai Ivanovich and his activities are all that we need to know about the order that was under Stalin. Lavrenty Palych was still a two-faced man, too rational, too about his interest. But Nikolai Ivanovich - the real one. One of those who could lie in the chamber of weights and measures, as a standard for the leader of the Stalinist draft.

                  Crazy dog.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master April 19 2020 12: 52
    +9
    Good afternoon, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
    Quote: kalibr
    And here is the difference between what we know about the events "later", and how they were covered shows a very important thing

    Exactly. But for this you need to know in order to compare. Thus, only specialists who already possess certain advanced knowledge, skills in working with sources and critical thinking can afford to study history "through newspapers".
    Those who are looking for their relatives in the archives for the most part do not possess such knowledge and skills. Therefore, they are not interested in studying history through newspapers, and, I will say more, is useless, and even harmful.
    By the way, "Fomenko and K" use this very effect in their "creativity" - a person who is not ready to receive information is dipped into a trough with carefully selected facts - quotes taken out of context, pictures, maps (where can we go without them? laughing !) etc. There is no knowledge, there is no experience in studying sources, critical thinking is lacking - the result here is shown to us by the Bars of all digital indices with regularity worthy only of raising the salaries of state employees.
  • Mihail2019
    Mihail2019 April 19 2020 14: 02
    +6
    In general, the means of propaganda have never been a reliable historical source. And if we say so, then the information should be verified from three independent sources! This is the basics! But the history of propaganda in the USSR - yes, you can study the "Pravda", "Komsomolskaya Pravda" and "Pionerskaya Pravda".
    But this is not the history of the country, but the history of propaganda in the USSR.
  • Svarog
    Svarog April 19 2020 08: 18
    +11
    Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
    You can study the history of propaganda in the newspaper Pravda, but not the history of the state of the USSR .... Do you not understand this ????

    It’s like listening to Solovyov, Kiselev and others like them now and concluding how modern Russia is developing .. The conclusions will be clearly erroneous .. unlike those years where the result was obvious. In other words, there was propaganda, but there was no lie, as it is now ..
    1. kalibr
      April 19 2020 08: 27
      +3
      Quote: Svarog
      In other words, there was propaganda, but there was no lie, as it is now ..

      Propaganda always contains a kind of distortion of reality, which can be called a lie. Even in silence, it would seem that there is a certain amount of propaganda! And that means lies !!!
      1. Svarog
        Svarog April 19 2020 08: 47
        +8
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Svarog
        In other words, there was propaganda, but there was no lie, as it is now ..

        Propaganda always contains a kind of distortion of reality, which can be called a lie. Even in silence, it would seem that there is a certain amount of propaganda! And that means lies !!!

        I do not agree. Does the prohibition of smoking contain lies? Either propaganda of a healthy lifestyle or propaganda of socialism .. Propaganda is different and in the USSR it was aimed at making a person better. And now she is aiming for dusting brains. Any action and word must be judged by the result. Then the result was, now not.
        1. kalibr
          April 19 2020 09: 02
          -5
          Quote: Svarog
          Then the result was

          1991! "Any action and word must be judged by the result."
          1. Svarog
            Svarog April 19 2020 09: 08
            +9
            Quote: kalibr
            1991 year!

            This is another story, compare newspapers 37 years .. and 90s and immediately everything will be obvious. In the 90s, lies poured from every iron. And given the fact that during the time of socialism, people used to believe in the state, well, or trust propaganda and became very naive .. then Gorbachev’s calls for perestroika, of course, were perceived positively. Moreover, much needed to be really changed. After all, it was not a question of these calls for the abolition of social goods. In general, 91 years just proved that there is also Western-style propaganda built on lies.
            1. kalibr
              April 19 2020 09: 11
              -5
              Quote: Svarog
              This is another story, compare newspapers 37 years .. and 90s and immediately everything will be obvious.

              This is the story of one country, one people, one culture ... Everything is inextricably linked!
              1. Svarog
                Svarog April 19 2020 09: 14
                +4
                Quote: kalibr
                This is the story of one country, one people, one culture ... Everything is inextricably linked!

                And do I really say that the connection is broken? No .. naturally one country, one people, the same culture .. But how different is a person and his perception of reality under different ideologies .. Being determines consciousness ..
            2. Icelord
              Icelord April 19 2020 15: 13
              -7
              So I would very much like for Gorbachev's cursers to be in his place. The treasury is empty, industry is uncompetitive, agriculture is unprofitable. The country has a total deficit of everything except tanks and missiles. Prior to this, the most egregious holes were plugged with the help of hydrocarbon exports, but here the price fell catastrophically. Gorbachev must be prayed that he did the impossible, did not allow a civil war with the use of nuclear weapons
              1. Octopus
                Octopus April 19 2020 15: 46
                0
                Quote: Icelord
                did not allow civil war using nuclear weapons

                That time it passed.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid April 19 2020 09: 25
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Svarog
            Then the result was

            1991! "Any action and word must be judged by the result."

            Vyacheslav Olegovich! Announce the entire list please:
            territory
            population
            industry
            medicine (including prevention)
            education
            population income growth
            ........
            .........
            ................ ??????? Productivity, so to speak
            1. kalibr
              April 19 2020 12: 15
              -4
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Vyacheslav Olegovich! Announce the entire list please:
              territory
              population
              industry
              medicine (including prevention)
              education
              population income growth
              ........
              .........
              ................ ??????? Productivity, so to speak

              Did you write it foolishly or drunk? And who will pay for this "research", you?
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid April 19 2020 12: 51
                +4
                Oh, how rude! Yes, it seems you didn’t pour me when you remembered about the year 1991.? And if you don’t have an answer, then why ask? Reported that you did not know?
                However, such studies have long been carried out, the results are known to all, their forum users often cited here. Sorry, crying what you did not read
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 19 2020 10: 44
          +2
          Greetings, Svarog!
          Do you compare the propaganda of socialism with the promotion of a healthy lifestyle? )))
          Then let's go in the accepted way in the scientific community - prospective studies. We will form groups - but instead of smokers and non-athletes, smokers and athletics, as well as non-smokers involved in sport and their life expectancy, the percentage of heart attacks on a cohort and cases of cancer, we will choose capitalist countries and socialist countries with the same population:
          ROK and DPRK, FRG and GDR and, in order to be completely correct and not get hung up on the "Western democratic" form of government and ethnic component - Singapore and Vietnam. In our research, we will want to know:
          Incomes
          Life expectancy
          Social security of the population - the size of the pension, living conditions of the disabled, etc.
          According to the results of our scientific work, we will understand how socialism is good for the population of their countries fellow
          1. Rate
            Rate April 19 2020 10: 51
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            According to the results of our scientific work, we will understand how socialism is good for the population of their countries

            Not everything is grubby and greenhouse conditions, measured in this life .. And you do not need to compare us in Russia with Israel and other geyrops! hi
            I also wanted to say something, but I’m not going to ..
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 10: 53
              -6
              Yes, you can still compare by such a highly moral Soviet phenomenon as snowdrops.
            2. Icelord
              Icelord April 19 2020 15: 19
              -4
              Absolutely everything is measured by the standard of living, and leave the show off gopote
          2. Svarog
            Svarog April 19 2020 11: 03
            +6
            Quote: Krasnodar
            According to the results of our scientific work, we will understand how socialism is good for the population of their countries

            Simply put, you want to say that socialism is inferior to capitalism in the quality of life?
            If you want comparisons please ... but you forgot China, which over the past 30 years has become the second, and according to some sources the first economy in the world, you forgot about the Scandinavian model ..
            Probably intentional?
            Socialism, as you can see in China, is very effective. If you look at large American corporations, then they completely adopted the model of management of the USSR. But they brought it to perfection. There is strategic planning and the funniest, as a rule, the five-year plan is taken, goals are set accordingly, needs are determined, budgeting, responsible, staff motivation and forth ..
            Excessive bureaucracy was the weak point in the USSR and there was no high-quality motivation for the staff .. it was precisely in this that Western corporations finalized the USSR model.
            I’m all this to the fact that goals and large-scale tasks, dIt is necessary to determine the state and nothing else.. otherwise, we will remain a commodity economy (as long as there is oil and gas), because none of the business will invest in long-term projects with an incomprehensible payback, and they won’t pull it ..
            This is only the economic component .. but, social in general plays a decisive role. The state should make the life of the overwhelming majority of citizens better, and not like now, the state is for a narrow group of people. Otherwise, why such a state?
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 12: 38
              +1
              1) I want to say that socialism is not so useful to people as abstinence from smoking and maintaining a healthy lifestyle laughing
              2) Socialist China (very conditionally socialist) is inferior in terms of the quality of life of the population to capitalist Taiwan and Hong Kong, even after the latter entered the PRC and a remarkable breakthrough of the country as a production site of the West
              3) The Scandinavian model is capitalism with an excellent social system - in the Swedish version provided with high taxation, in the Norwegian one - the public expenditure of petrodollars on the country's needs. A variant of Novezhsky capitalism would suit Russia.
              4) American corporations have different models for increasing profitability - from transferring relatively low-skilled production to China to advanced training courses for suitable employees and bonuses provided in personal contracts. Five-year planning - maybe I didn’t read it, just a good judge of it in a crisis-prone world economy?
              5) Long-term plans for the development of the country is a function of the state - this is practiced by all capital countries, I agree. As well as stimulating promising areas of the economy
              6) I also agree - the state should make the life of citizens better drinks - the question is how to achieve this - certainly not through the Soviet model of socialism
              1. Svarog
                Svarog April 19 2020 12: 53
                +6
                We regularly exchange opinions on the same topic .. As a result, we agree on something, but the fact that you wear Putin’s T-shirt means that we can never find consensus .. for this man held the oars for 20 years dry .. and without starting to row .. more precisely, he started, but for his friends only heaped ..
                And for Russia, the only model of socialism suitable is the model of the USSR. But with significant improvements. Russia is obliged to be an empire, even doomed, otherwise it will be increasingly fragmented and, accordingly, the policy should be the same as in the USSR in relation to influence on post-Soviet countries.
                Auger agrees - the state should make the lives of citizens better drinks - the question of how to achieve this is certainly not through the Soviet model of socialism


                Let’s take a closer look at this topic that you don’t like in the socialist model of the USSR?
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 19 2020 13: 57
                  +1
                  1) As for Putin - compared to the beginning of the XNUMXs, the country has improved in the following directions:
                  * Personal security of citizens
                  * Improving the country's defenses
                  * Improving the quality of medical services to the population
                  * Improving food security
                  * Demographic stimulation - maternal capital
                  * Patriotic vector of youth education
                  * Independent foreign policy of the state
                  * Territorial state acquisitions
                  2) What is Russia not an empire now? Adygea is visible from my window
                  The sun rises between Gaza and Rafah
                  A scarlet of rays on top of Hermon
                  With flowers in the trunks and girls on the towers of tanks
                  Crowds of soldiers returning home fellow
                  In short - we already live in the empire and I like it
                  3) The influence of the USSR on neighboring countries consisted in their economic nourishment and military presence, which cost money that did not disappear when oil prices fell. And there was always not enough money to raise the standard of living of their own population.
                  4) The socialist model of the USSR -
                  "Any loafers and drunkards were provided with a guarantee of employment and, accordingly, income, which affected the quality of production
                  "Having embarked on the path of ostentatious competition with Western countries, the latter gladly adopted the Soviet developments put up for show - the Elizarov apparatus, for example, while our medicine adopted a minuscule amount from the Western, which reduced the life expectancy of citizens
                  "Hypertroyed military-industrial complex - tanks instead of consumer goods and high-quality housing
                  "A ban on private commercial activities - industrial and science intensive
                  "Ineffective, as a result of collectivization, agriculture - from there oil money for grain, and in the mid-80s the first became less, and the price of grain went up
                  "Censorship and Lies - About the Unfortunate Workers of the Decaying West
                  "Ineffective higher education (except for mathematics, teachers and physics), despite the world's best school
                  "Self-isolation - restrictions on traveling abroad
                  "The inefficiency of the planned economy due to the priorities of ideology over efficiency and common sense
                  "Financial support for any" anti-imperialist "regime at the expense of the standard of living of its own population
                  "Poor quality of service and service due to lack of competition
                  I can continue to list - just laziness)).
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog April 19 2020 14: 09
                    +1
                    1) As for Putin - compared to the beginning of the XNUMXs, the country has improved in the following directions:
                    * Personal security of citizens

                    Are you probably talking about terrorism? here I agree, they began to blow up less .. But the police began to steal more and the police began to work worse .. more precisely, they stopped working at all .. A lot of examples ..
                    * Improving the country's defenses

                    Come on ... the coronavirus showed defensive ability .. or rather, not the ability .. look how the USSR coped with cholera and for how long ..
                    And where did you get the idea that our defenses increased? In comparison with the USSR, certainly not.
                    * Improving the quality of medical services to the population

                    Then you forgot to add, to the population with money .. those who do not have them do not observe the quality.
                    Yes, and those with money greatly and overpay ..
                    * Improving food security

                    Again, in comparison with what? With the USSR, it was an order of magnitude higher .. But I partially agree that something has been done in this direction, but it’s clearly not enough to say that we are completely safe ..
                    * Patriotic vector of youth education

                    Well, here you are very mistaken .. A lot of young people are around me .. but their attitude is clearly not patriotic .. Young people are concerned about paying loans and finding a better-paid job .. those with a good education are thinking of dropping abroad ..
                    *
                    State territorial acquisitions

                    Crimea is indisputable here.
                    In short - we already live in the empire and I like it

                    Without Ukraine, Belarus .. we are a pathetic stub of an empire ..
                    About the model of the USSR I’ll answer below .. so as not to pile everything up ..
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 14: 44
                      0
                      1) I'm not talking about terrorism - I'm talking about street crime, criminal situation, etc. There is more cyber-military service - the police do not yet know what to do with it, because these are basically not standard knocking and chatting criminals, but in general there are much fewer threats to the population
                      2) The USSR coronavirus could not touch at all - like prisoners in closed squads. About the army-I compare with the period of Putin's rise to power. USSR - yes, a military monster, collapsed due to internal problems of the lack of attendants, including for the maintenance of a large army
                      3) Medicine and money - I had a heart attack. No time is running out, nobody answers the phones for the right people - the beginning of the working day. They brought to the hospital, dragged from the other world - all for free. They fed an expensive brigint)). Also for free. Hamili - for the time being, primarily because I wanted to leave the hospital early. )))
                      3) All people are confused by loans and the best place to work - all over the world. Educated Germans and Israelis are also happy to bring large fees to the States with cheaper lives. But the slope from the army is much less than 10 years ago
                      4) Food security - reduce the bureaucratic apparatus, increase the salary and ask for each mistake criminally - rise to the proper level
                      5) Oh - only Ukraine and Belarus we do not have enough for complete happiness - and so. In order to be diligent ourselves, we must be attractive to them not only because of the lack of game parades. )))
                  2. Svarog
                    Svarog April 19 2020 14: 29
                    +2
                    4) The socialist model of the USSR -
                    "Any loafers and drunkards were provided with a guarantee of employment and, accordingly, income, which affected the quality of production

                    I agree, but in part, there should be a guarantee of employment, but in relation to such characters a more rigorous approach is needed and perhaps exceptions can be made .. In other words, this can be finalized ..
                    The influence of the USSR on neighboring countries consisted in their economic replenishment and military presence, which cost money that did not disappear when oil prices fell. And there was always not enough money to raise the standard of living of their own population.

                    Note that now we do not have neighboring countries that are on our content, but there is still not enough money to raise the standard of living ..
                    As I said earlier, this is security and a market and, in the end, a single people, which means justice .. I mean Ukraine and Belarus, with respect to the rest of the world, until we have financial power, we can’t get sprayed ..
                    "Hypertroyed military-industrial complex - tanks instead of consumer goods and high-quality housing

                    I agree, but this moment is easiest to balance .. it would be production, and adjusting as needed is not difficult ..
                    "A ban on private commercial activities - industrial and science intensive

                    I believe that small and medium business should be, and actually none of today's socialists is going to deprive people of this right .. But only small and medium ..
                    "Censorship and Lies - About the Unfortunate Workers of the Decaying West

                    Now that there is no censorship and lies .. in my opinion there are much more lies, before they didn’t lie so cynically, they could be silent, but they didn’t lie ..
                    "Self-isolation - restrictions on traveling abroad

                    I agree. It should not be prohibited here, if life in another country seems more attractive, then let them go, as it is necessary to strive to create conditions in the homeland.
                    "The inefficiency of the planned economy due to the priorities of ideology over efficiency and common sense

                    I absolutely disagree. The economy simply has to be planned. But naturally, people should be properly motivated and sharpened for specific tasks.
                    "Financial support for any" anti-imperialist "regime at the expense of the standard of living of its own population

                    I agree. But it’s not funny, now this is also happening, maybe on a slightly smaller scale. But I believe that this is nothing, if it is not about personal safety.
                    "Poor quality of service and service due to lack of competition
                    I can continue to list - just laziness)).

                    Due to the lack of entrepreneurship at all as a class ... there will be small and medium-sized businesses, all this will be both competition and saturation of shelves ..
                    Summarizing, I can say that I agree with the majority of what you are not comfortable with and that modern socialists themselves hold the same view .. For this reason, I see no reason to prove something to each other. It is necessary to strive to make our state socially oriented and bring responsible government officials to power ..
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 15: 04
                      0
                      1) The best guarantee of employment is the fear of being left without a livelihood. Stimulates a good profession and education, diligent and honest work. The role of the state - Retraining courses and incentives in money / tax concessions for the device of people whose skills have become irrelevant to work
                      2) Ukraine and Belarus should come to us themselves - because of greater opportunities to earn
                      3) I agree - only small and medium, although ... civil aircraft can also be given to private owners, as well as shipbuilding
                      4) But how can one plan for a constantly changing global environment? Large infrastructure projects - I agree, and how much fish to catch and a pair of shoes to sew in Ivanovo is nonsense.
                      5) Salt safety - I agree. The rest - yes, I saw them all ..,
                      6) Is there anything else to do on self-isolation besides arguing? laughing drinks
              2. Octopus
                Octopus April 19 2020 15: 13
                -1
                Quote: Krasnodar
                A variant of Novezhsky capitalism would suit Russia.

                Where do you get so many Norwegians in Russia?

                Of the oil depot of Russia came up with the option of Equatorial Guinea and Turkmenistan.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 19 2020 15: 17
                  +2
                  Russians are much closer to taxes than to the population of the countries you mentioned.
                  1. Octopus
                    Octopus April 19 2020 15: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Russians are much closer to taxes than to the population of the countries you mentioned.

                    )))
                    No. I do not see the slightest reason to think so.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 15: 38
                      0
                      Are Christian white Europeans closer to Turkic-speaking Muslims or Africans? Well I do not know request
                    2. Octopus
                      Octopus April 19 2020 15: 53
                      -2
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      White Christian Europeans

                      1. I am not a racist.
                      2. Russia has never been a European or Christian country. Pretending, yes, but not.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      to Turkic-speaking Muslims or Africans?

                      Of course. An ordinary post-colonial country, without Lee Kuan Y. The former colonial administration began to call itself a democratic state, without changing anything.
                    3. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 16: 00
                      +2
                      Culturally, ethnically, religiously - has always been European and Christian. And whose colony was Russia?
                    4. Octopus
                      Octopus April 19 2020 16: 25
                      -2
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Culturologically,

                      Enlightenment didn’t suit us,
                      And we got from him
                      Zhamanstvo - nothing more

                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      ethnically

                      I am not a racist, he said.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      and Christian

                      Russia / Russia / USSR / Russia is a stronghold of caesarepapism, from the XNUMXth century to the present.
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      And whose colony was Russia?

                      When Ivan III Vasilyevich informed Akhmat Saraisky that he had neither a share nor a voice in Moscow affairs, what changed for the population of the Moscow ulus, with the exception of Ivan Vasilyevich and his relatives?

                      By the way, the state (a) of Russians in the XNUMXth century. Where was it (s) located?
                      We are free to pity our servants and are free to execute them

                      A familiar concept? Has she been revised? By whom and when?
                    5. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 16: 27
                      +1
                      laughing
                      I didn’t dig so deep
                      Probably in Novgorod))
                    6. Octopus
                      Octopus April 19 2020 16: 49
                      -1
                      Novgorod, Pskov, partly on. All of them died in the XV-XVI centuries.
                    7. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 19 2020 16: 51
                      +2
                      So Russia is the historical heir to the Golden Horde, the power that took its place politically and militarily - there is nothing new.
                    8. Octopus
                      Octopus April 19 2020 17: 13
                      +1
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      So Russia is the historical heir of the Golden Horde,

                      In order not to breed flood, we will take it by consensus.
  • Icelord
    Icelord April 19 2020 15: 20
    -2
    Have you been to China? I was
  • Octopus
    Octopus April 19 2020 15: 11
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Singapore and Vietnam

    Unsuccessfully. Singapore is unique.

    People's Republic of China and Republic of China (Taiwan).
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar April 19 2020 15: 13
      +1
      Already wrote about China and Taiwan
      Singapore - ethnically mixed population, capitalism, lack of Western-style democracy
      1. Octopus
        Octopus April 19 2020 15: 30
        0
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Already wrote about China and Taiwan

        Yes, I already saw it. I didn’t read the thread.
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Singapore - ethnically mixed population, capitalism, lack of Western-style democracy

        Leadership fascism with the leader of the nation.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 19 2020 15: 35
          +1
          What is fascism? The absence of any territorial claims against neighbors, the criterion for the appointment of the Chief of General Staff is to get acquainted with the Malaysian army elite, the ethnically and religiously mixed population lives according to the highest world standards - what is bad?
          1. Octopus
            Octopus April 19 2020 15: 44
            0
            Quote: Krasnodar
            What is fascism?

            Chinese. Taiwan has let go, not so long ago, while Singapore is holding on.
            Quote: Krasnodar
            population lives to the highest world standards

            Economic. Politically, they recently switched from a personalist to a one-party (one and a half party) model. Another 30 years - and will grow to democracy.

            Oh yes. In case you read Lee Kuan Yew and know that Singapore is too small a country for a multi-party system. Singapore is the size of Denmark by population and economy.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 15: 50
              +1
              lol
              After serious national conflicts that broke out in Singapore in the 1960s, the government began to carefully monitor national relations and proclaimed the principle of harmony, which is followed by education, housing, the army and other social spheres. Since the 1970s, conflicts have virtually ceased. It is currently forbidden to wear Islamic shawls in schools. In October 2005, one Internet user was sentenced to a month in prison for racist comments.
              -----
              The only thing is that there is a certain anti-Islamic orientation. But she is anti-religious, not ethnic. Interethnic marriages and integration are welcome.
            2. Octopus
              Octopus April 19 2020 16: 05
              0
              I look at you, like most Russian-speakers, confuse fascism and Hitler. A fascist (more precisely, a fascoid) state is just a sovereign state, sovereign in relation to its population. Refusal of the concept of citizens, a return to the concept of subjects. As a rule, this is accompanied by troubles about the great historical role, but this is not necessary. It is almost never effective, but the effectiveness of a fascist state is not limited by objective laws (as opposed to socialist). Singapore succeeded in becoming effective without democracy, as, by the way, in all the rich countries of Asia. Some distinguish Hong Kong (and contrast it with Singapore in terms of democracy / dictatorship), but Hong Kong is a colony, there is no democracy there and never has been. So it is very likely that catch-up modernization in a democracy is possible only in Europe, including Israel. I do not recall a single non-European (historically European, including the USA and dominions) rich democratic country.
            3. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 16: 08
              0
              I do not confuse - fascism is Musolini)). Japan is a rich democratic country in Asia. South Korea is a rich democratic country in Asia.
            4. Octopus
              Octopus April 19 2020 16: 31
              +2
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Japan is a rich democratic country

              With one ruling party since 1955. "United Japan", sort of. But no, sorry, LDPYa.
              Quote: Krasnodar
              South Korea is a rich democratic country in Asia.

              Big Democrat Park Jung-hee could tell more about this if he was alive.
            5. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 16: 38
              0
              Japan is the two leading parties, as in the States (almost).
              In post-war Japan, despite the existence of a multi-party system, a bipartisan parliamentary system dominates. For almost the entire second half of the 20th century, the country was led by the center-right Liberal Democratic Party, in opposition of which was the Social Liberal Democratic Party. At the beginning of the 21st century, both parties switched roles. As of 2018, liberal democrats are in power, and democrats are in opposition. The leader of the Liberal Democratic Party, Shinzo Abe, is the country's prime minister. Other political parties that are represented in the minority in the Japanese parliament are Komeito, the Social Democratic and the Communist Parties. Depending on their interests, they periodically form a coalition with the ruling parties or oppose

              Korea - Do you still remember Lee Son Man. By the way, someone else’s head of government was removed — don’t you remember this story? )) Direct totalitarianism laughing
            6. Octopus
              Octopus April 19 2020 16: 53
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Lee Son Mana remember.

              Park Jung Hee is better. And resigned as a true democrat.
              Quote: Krasnodar
              don't remember this story? )) Direct totalitarianism

              I did not talk about totalitarianism. I spoke about undemocratic modernization.
            7. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 17: 17
              +1
              In Korea, it began in the 70s, with the establishment of a democratic system of government. In Japan - earlier)).
            8. Octopus
              Octopus April 19 2020 17: 33
              +2
              The democratic system in Korea was established in the 90s. It was the result, not the cause, of economic modernization. Prior to this, Kim Dae-jung, for example, without permission by participating in the elections and taking second place, received the highest standard and was taken out by the Americans.
              Quote: Krasnodar
              In Japan - earlier)).

              Same. But in Japan, democratization did not go through executions (count the accused and not killed Korean presidents), but through factionalism in LDPJ.
            9. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 18: 21
              +1
              Formally - democratic elections in South Korea were held in the late 90s. In Japan, LDPJ played the same role as the Maarah in Israel until the 70s - this does not indicate the absence of democratic elections)).
    2. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 16: 43
      +1
      The level of democracy is not directly dependent on the number of parties in the country. In Russia, too, there are many). By the way. In Italy from 1946 to 1994 one party ruled continuously
    3. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 17: 00
      +3
      Quote: Liam
      There are a lot of them in Russia

      In Russia there is not one. The last Russian party was the CPSU (b), with which Comrade ended. Stalin in the 20s.
      Quote: Liam
      By the way. In Italy from 1946 to 1994 one party ruled continuously

      You shouldn't think that Italy in 1946-1994 is what immediately comes to mind when you hear the word "democracy". A corporate mafia state, as you know where. Mussolini left, and his business lived on, in a castrated and rationalized form.
    4. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 17: 10
      +3
      If the facts are not mastered in the theory, the worse for the facts)
      France is also not a democracy then. LePenov is 30 years old with 20-30% of the vote and in the parliament of their deputies, on the fingers of one hand.
      Quote: Octopus
      Corporate Mafia State

      Italy fascist state again). Then it’s a complete disaster. In almost all European countries, you can find periods when one party steered for 20-30-40 years. How many dictatorship Merkel is there at the helm?)
    5. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 17: 20
      +1
      Quote: Liam
      How many dictatorship Merkel is there at the helm?)

      You know that I really do not like Merkel. And to Herr Cohn-Bendit, I generally have extremely radical wishes.
      Quote: Liam
      Italy fascist state again)

      Not again. Trials against the mafia of the 90s crippled the good old Italy. Like a one-party system, by coincidence.

      Also, again. You seek out the ridges and Wagner. The monopoly on TV, for example, which Berlusconny destroyed (regardless of its benefit or harm) is not fascism for you.
    6. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 17: 41
      +3
      Quote: Octopus
      Merkel

      And before that was the dictatorship of Kohl or Thatcher in England)
      Quote: Octopus
      Processes against the mafia

      The trials against the mafia are actually the mid-80s. Maxiprocesso di Palermo. And they didn’t undermine politics in any way. But find it difficult to name a politician of Italy at the national level for this entire period sentenced for the mafia. End of the Party’s CD (as well as socialists, republicans and others of the 5 party coalition that ruled all these years) came from processes related to the illegal financing of parties. Operation Clean Hands. And what kind of fascism is where the judiciary sends the whole political elite from Craxi to Berlusconi to jail)


      Quote: Octopus
      Berlusconny

      Berlusconi created his TV in the late 70s and early 80s when he was far from politics. Besides him there were also private TV Chekki Gori, for example
    7. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 17: 53
      +1
      Quote: Liam
      And they did not undermine politics in any way .... came from processes related to the illegal financing of parties. Operation Clean Hands.

      Well, they didn’t do it, they didn’t do it, you know better.

      I think you hit casuistry. The point is that the mechanism of political competition in Italy has been turned off for a long time, and maintained in a disconnected form by means of violence, primarily legalized, state (state violence is not only Auschwitz, but also media licensing, for example), but sometimes not legalized . Perhaps this was not such a bad idea, judging by maestro Grillo and his supporters, but fact is a fact.
    8. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 18: 33
      +2
      There was no violence. And the freedom of the media naturally was, even on state TV. There were 3 TV channels. 1-pro-government, centrists shorter. 2-right, Rai-3 - this was the diocese of the Communist Party. Television was driven by parliament and not The government. And according to the constitution, the composition of the committee on TV was clearly regulated in proportion to the votes of the parties. And the chairman, strictly from the opposition, should have been. And all the time there was a parallel private TV, a part of which was later bought by Berlusconi.
      The "dictate" of the CD is simply a consequence of the presence of a strong Communist Party and 70% of Italians voted strictly against the communists. Although the communists at the local level ruled many regions for 40 years too. This whole scheme was in effect while the USSR and the communist threat lived. As soon as in the early 90s, x the alliance collapsed, the communists / anti-communists scheme collapsed. Therefore, all those parties disappeared, and not because of the mafia. The communists were retrained as social democrats, and Berlusconi took votes for himself HD
    9. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 18: 44
      +2
      Wisely. But I find it hard to believe that the causes of the crisis of the Italian system were associated with ideological reasons.

      However, to believe, not to believe is not a business conversation. Not yet ready to support this topic with a resident. If you fundamentally protect me from the good name of the Italian democracy of those years - OK.
    10. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 18: 57
      +4
      CD was mired in ordinary corruption precisely because it had been in power for too long for ideological reasons. As soon as it disappeared, they paid it immediately on bills)

      Democracy is determined by other things, and not by the number of parties and how long they have been in power. These are boring things like a well-written Constitution and the Constitutional Court which sneeze at politics and its wishes, a truly independent judiciary that is always happy to throw politicians behind bars, competitive media ( and not utopian "independent") and a clear division between the local government and the center, where the local government has a lot of authority and a lot of money from taxes, and not from federal transfers.
      If there are these things, to sneeze how many parties are there and how many years they have been in the power sheet and in the government.
    11. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 19: 01
      0
      Quote: Liam
      If there are these things

      And where were all these things? In Italy?
      Quote: Liam
      HD mired in ordinary corruption

      In Korea 80s? In Taiwan?
    12. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 19: 38
      +3
      Quote: Octopus

      And where were all these things? In Italy?

      Always been. Even during HD.
      Quote: Octopus
      In Korea 80s? In Taiwan?

      Do you seriously believe that in the South Caucasus, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore in the 70-80s there should have been classical democracy? Until the 45th century, they had been in authoritarian feudalism all their history. It is naive to assume that in 20-30 years they have changed their mentality and habits by 100%. They have made their way not without distortions naturally. And Singapore is changing and finally changing its authoritarian ways. Otherwise, it degrades as China has already begun to degrade. Authoritarianism allows economic breakthroughs to a certain level. And there they rest against the ceiling and the fork, either the system or degradation changes. The dictatorships feature is to grow rapidly during mobilization, but also to fall very quickly and deeply during crises. It was for example in the Pinochet times in Chile.
    13. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 19: 50
      0
      Quote: Liam
      Always been. Even during HD.

      Quote: Liam
      a truly independent judiciary that is always happy to jail politicians, competitive media

      Quote: Liam
      CD mired in ordinary corruption precisely because they have been in power for too long

      OK
      Quote: Liam
      Do you seriously believe that in the South Caucasus, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore in the 70-80s there should have been classical democracy?

      No, you misunderstood me. I just emphasize that democracy in poor countries does not work. A dictatorship usually does not work, and democracy never works. It is unpleasant to be a poor country.
      Quote: Octopus
      I do not recall a single non-European (historically European, including the USA and dominions) rich democratic country.

      Wrongly formulated, not "rich", but "successfully developing". Wealthy countries inevitably strive for democracy.

      Democracy and development managed to be combined only by countries that fell into the gravity well of the EU. Unfortunately, neither the USA, nor more than China or, God forgive me, the USSR, have such a gravitational effect.
    14. Liam
      Liam April 19 2020 20: 04
      +3
      Quote: Octopus
      OK

      What surprises you. The parties did not rot from the same age of 46. And they planted politicians even before 93/94. There simply wasn’t such a scale of rotting and, correspondingly, plantings. When they rotted much in the late 80s, then they began to plant massively. And their political it was not the judges but the voters who executed the death. Nobody closed these parties, they still exist. They’re just picking up as much as a tenth of a hell. Democracy in all its glory). The voters' agenda has changed and they have stopped voting. A couple of dozen corrupt officials I wouldn’t kill the party. The Communists disappeared without mass arrest
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 19 2020 17: 15
    +2
    But there was a real opposition - there is one in Japan, judging by the shift of power.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 19 2020 09: 21
    +1
    Well, what do you want, Svarog! Under socialism, there were only norms and socialist propaganda.
    Now another
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 19 2020 11: 26
      -5
      Yeah, you’re an ignoramus and don’t know anything, and therefore your judgments are insignificant
    2. Icelord
      Icelord April 19 2020 15: 26
      -3
      You don’t write, you read books, travel around the world and then get an education, and since the president turns out to be a cook, he’s a locksmith philosopher. From my locksmith, turner, janitor, taught me life, quickly learned
  • Icelord
    Icelord April 19 2020 11: 25
    -2
    Oh how, well, yes, well, yes, only pure truth.
  • Mihail2019
    Mihail2019 April 19 2020 14: 08
    +3
    Exactly! Moreover, I ask you to note that the author is fluent in the art of propaganda, which he was trained just in the USSR.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins April 19 2020 07: 16
    +6
    Eh, Vyacheslav Olegovich ... Often I was with you on the same side of the barricades, and I criticize this article ...
    You have done a great job, but for what? What did the Pravda newspaper represent then? Clearly politicized seal organ. Directly "locomotive" among the newspapers. And, of course, there is any text on the pages, any article is three times rechecked! And you, starting from her, are trying to draw analogies ...
    1. kalibr
      April 19 2020 08: 30
      -1
      Nazariy, you should read my book "Technologies of Public Opinion Management" (Infra-Engineering), then you would have looked at it a little differently. Even a politicized body gives a snapshot of society, its ideology, culture, traditions ... These are all studied disciplines. It is not for nothing that newspapers are used as a source in source studies.
      1. Mihail2019
        Mihail2019 April 19 2020 14: 13
        +3
        And here I will just tell you "Thank you very much!"
        Not for the fact that they mentioned the "cut", but for the fact that they directly said that they themselves possess these technologies and know how to apply them.
        What confirmed my opinion about you as a good specialist in manipulating public opinion.
    2. Fat
      Fat April 19 2020 15: 16
      +4
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      What did the Pravda newspaper represent then? Clearly politicized seal organ. Directly "locomotive" among the newspapers. And, of course, there is any text on the pages, any article is three times rechecked! And you, starting from her, are trying to draw analogies ...

      After the October Revolution.
      Literally 2 days later, from November 9, 1917, the newspaper Pravda began to appear as an organ of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b).
      With the liquidation of the non-communist press in 1918, Pravda became the main newspaper in the country, pushing back the Soviet organ, Izvestia. The day of its first issue, May 5 (1912), was declared "Press Day".
      The articles published in Pravda "were almost orders (directives) for the execution and leadership of all party organizations. When a subscription to the newspaper became mandatory for party members, the circulation exceeded 10 millionth line (in the 70s) ...
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 07: 24
    +7
    Hello!
    I recall a joke from the seventies:
    "Pravdv" is sold, "Labor" costs 2 kopecks, there is only one "Gudok" left. Something like that, but I don't remember exactly. The people have always reacted sharply to what was happening in the country. And now there is some kind of swamp.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave April 19 2020 07: 56
      +5
      Uncle Kostya, my respect!
      The people always reacted sharply to what was happening in the country.
      Have you read Dovlatovsky's "Zapovednik"?
      "-Can you tell me what Magellan has to do with it?
      -Maybe he died ... Or they gave the Hero ... "
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 April 19 2020 08: 12
        +17
        Good morning to all those gathered!
        * My son has been wearing a T-shirt with the inscription "I am for Putin" for two weeks. During this time they spat at him, and even tried to throw a bottle at him.
        What will happen to him if he leaves the house? *
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 19 2020 08: 23
          +7
          "Experts note an increase in cases of domestic violence during the quarantine"
          1. Catfish
            Catfish April 19 2020 10: 25
            +6
            It is interesting! And who rapes whom?
            "And from the audience they shout to me: Give me the details!" (from).
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 10: 45
              +3
              "- And also, comrade cadets, there is love for the Motherland! Now there will be slides!"
              1. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 10: 51
                +5
                And also, comrade cadets,
              2. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 10: 56
                +4
                Anton, why is Mikado and Kotishch skipping school? Must call to the parent meeting. The mess. laughing
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave April 19 2020 11: 01
                  +2
                  I spoke with Nikolai 3 days ago. Vlad, I think, in connection with the situation of smut, the number of servicemen increased.
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish April 19 2020 11: 04
                    +4
                    Yes, Vlad certainly has gaps on his shoulder straps. Say hello to Nikolai. drinks
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 11: 07
                      +2
                      Okay. Although, I sent you his phone number and "soap".
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish April 19 2020 11: 19
                        +2
                        Only Vlad, but he doesn’t look at his mail.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave April 19 2020 11: 25
                        +1
                        Ah, I sent my phone ...
              3. Phil77
                Phil77 April 19 2020 11: 55
                +3
                One day.
                * A panda eats 12 hours a day.
                A man during quarantine eats like a panda.
                That is why everything that happens is called a pandemic. *
      2. Catfish
        Catfish April 19 2020 08: 24
        +7
        They’ll shoot right away! And it’s good if right away, or else they will make you suffer. laughing
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 April 19 2020 08: 29
          +9
          Still!
          * Coronovirus.
          Airplanes do not fly. Factories stand.
          Greta! Baby! Are you satisfied? *
          1. Catfish
            Catfish April 19 2020 08: 36
            +8
            Thank you, Seryozha! smile Spar further metropolitan fresh, otherwise we are here in the Ryazan outback soon decayed without fresh jokes. laughing drinks
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 April 19 2020 08: 41
              +9
              * Every evening after watching the news, I turn on a horror movie. In order to somehow calm down. * crying
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 19 2020 08: 49
                +6
                "Resident Evil"?
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 April 19 2020 08: 53
                  +6
                  * Terius behind me *. laughing
                2. Catfish
                  Catfish April 19 2020 10: 22
                  +3
                  I could not watch until the end, sheer crap, even Milka does not save this film.
                  1. Phil77
                    Phil77 April 19 2020 10: 56
                    +2
                    Oh, Konstantin! But, imagine:
                    Coronovirus. There are no vaccine drugs yet.
                    And suddenly, a breakthrough! A magic potion was found !!!! Take people, get vaccinated! And then ????
                    And then the options! God forbid, of course. Almost like in * I am a legend. *, Only there was a vaccine against cancer.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish April 19 2020 11: 02
                      +5
                      In his "Legend" the car was excellent and the automatic machine was nothing for urban conditions, but the dog was smart. What do we have? Abramovich in Tahiti? I don’t want to talk about others. At least go to the customs office to Vereshchagin, and he will again say: No, guys, I won't give you a machine gun ... " recourse
                    2. Phil77
                      Phil77 April 19 2020 11: 10
                      +4
                      The dog in the film is very sorry !!!! Shepherd, and smart, and beautiful !!!
                    3. Catfish
                      Catfish April 19 2020 11: 23
                      +5
                      You are racist, Seryoga! I feel sorry for the dog, but no black man. Klansman! laughing
                    4. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 11: 33
                      +3
                      "I hate two things: blacks and racism!"
                    5. Catfish
                      Catfish April 19 2020 12: 23
                      +4
                      I don’t like boiled fish yet.
                    6. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 26
                      +2
                      You just don’t know how to cook it. Boil in the aquarium and salt to taste!
                    7. Catfish
                      Catfish April 19 2020 12: 31
                      +4
                      And why should I cook when my wife is an excellent culinary specialist. I just hate boiled fish since childhood, no matter how well it cooked. Brrrrrrrrrrr ...... negative
                    8. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 33
                      +4
                      It happens. I, for example, from barley "turn back from the soul."
                    9. Catfish
                      Catfish April 19 2020 12: 35
                      +4
                      Similarly, since the army service. soldier
                    10. bubalik
                      bubalik April 19 2020 12: 39
                      +5
                      3x3zsave (anton
                      ,, in the light of recent events, you need to be more economical winked cereal increases during cooking 4-5 times.
                    11. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 46
                      +5
                      It is a pity that this does not happen with vodka and gasoline.
                    12. bubalik
                      bubalik April 19 2020 12: 59
                      +4
                      happens with vodka and gasoline.
                      ,,, fine, Anton good wassat
                    13. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 14: 11
                      +2
                      "If you didn't have enough" half a liter "
                      Just add water! "
                    14. Phil77
                      Phil77 April 19 2020 14: 37
                      +2
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Just add water! "

                      It looks like an advertising slogan for a drink * invite *! laughing
                    15. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave April 19 2020 14: 41
                      +2
                      And there is. Sasha Vasiliev (group "Spleen"), it seems, came up with.
              2. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 13: 31
                +3
                My God, Anton, why didn’t I meet you before! These are the words and to blow into the ears of our one and indivisible. Oh, sorry, buddy, that you are too decent a person to be the president of Russia. drinks
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 19 2020 13: 42
                +2
                "Antokha to the kingdom !!!" laughing
                "No, Petka, I can't use the army. I have to learn some more!" (FROM)
                In addition, ten years ago, I would have been simply uninteresting to you. request
              4. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 13: 55
                +5
                But the FIG knows him, but now you yourself will not go. And then, you see, it rains in Santiago, and we have a cloudless sky over the whole country. laughing
              5. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 19 2020 13: 58
                +3
                "Good morning, Vietnam!"
                Nice movie, by the way.
              6. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 14: 22
                +4
                Unfortunately I have not seen, I’ll look. And this is not x / f, this is a chronicle and not in Vietnam.
              7. Phil77
                Phil77 April 19 2020 14: 30
                +2
                This is Chile, and the tank. Well, just like alive !!! laughing
              8. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 14: 38
                +4
                Yeah, just like alive! Who are you hinting at? laughing
              9. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave April 19 2020 14: 57
                +3
                My tank is like argentine tango!
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 14: 32
              +2
              Precisely a chronicle? In my opinion, a frame from the film of the same name in 1975. The chronicle there is all monochrome.
            3. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 14: 37
              +2
              Exactly. What movie do you mean? If ours, then on the frame is a light tank "Chaffee", we did not have and do not have such tanks in Mosfilm's arsenal. And the chronicle was all, besides, then many were colored.
            4. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 14: 45
              +3
              Franco-Bulgarian, "It's Raining in Santiago", 1975
            5. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 14: 50
              +4
              I have not seen him. But then everything is possible, the French could have had such tanks from the Second War, the Americans armed them with such, together with the Shermans. I saw only our "Centaurs" by Zhalyakyavichus, the one where Banionis played Allende, and Lebedev played Pinochet. I think that hardly the Franco-Bulgarians managed to make the film better than ours.
            6. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 15: 12
              +2
              I think that it is unlikely that the Franco-Bulgarians managed to make the film better than ours.
              Purcua, wouldn’t you?
            7. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 20: 17
              +1
              Have you seen the Centaurs?
            8. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 20: 27
              +1
              Yes figs knows, Uncle Kostya! Maybe I saw it ... I remember my first "serious" film clearly. It was The Legend of the Dinosaur. I was about five years old. How my father dragged me into the session is beyond my comprehension!
            9. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 20: 37
              +2
              If only I had seen it. This director has a generally splendid film "Nobody Wanted to Die", and there the main character said a rather wise phrase: "I am a soldier, mother, when I can not shoot, I do not shoot." There was also the film "This sweet word is freedom", also a kind of phenomenon for the seventies.
            10. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 20: 51
              +1
              Well, remember also "The Fall of the Condor"!
              It happens in different ways. About 25 years ago, your peers were surprised that I was pouring quotes from their (your) youth. I don’t know how I remember that.
              Do you remember the song: "Orange sky, orange mother, orange camel"?
            11. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 21: 01
              +2
              "Fall of the Condor" I don't remember at all.
              I don’t know how I remember that.
              Gene memory?
              And of course I remember a song. smile
            12. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 21: 11
              +2
              Gene memory?
              Less Kazantsev had to be read, in due time!
            13. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 21: 26
              +3
              I mainly read Bradbury and the Strugatsky. Kazantsev and Efremov somehow did not go.
            14. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 21: 29
              +2
              Bilenkin, Snegov, Gansovsky, Pavlov?
            15. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 21: 40
              +2
              I remember the surname Gansovsky, but no, what and how I wrote. I don’t know the rest. When I was thirteen, I read Novikoa's Tsushima, and in the future I was more interested in books of just such a plan, or stories about the past war, by our and foreign authors.
            16. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 21: 47
              +1
              Sorry, Uncle Kostya, I shouldn't have "trumped" repeat There are two topics that I really understand: the history of Russian science fiction, and the history of Russian rock music. I can write a couple of "dissenters". But who cares ...
            17. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 22: 03
              +2
              For example, I'm curious, I myself grew up on science fiction and on the kings of rock Presley and Halle. And in science fiction, I remembered one story of our author, I don't remember either the name or the name. But the story is out of the ordinary. It is about a closed orphanage in the mountains, in an unnamed country. The inspector of the local "Narobraz" arrives there with a check. The story is quite long and in its course it turns out that the newcomer has nothing to do with the "narobraz", but is a full-time counterintelligence officer, and in this school, aliens train our orphans as commandos for action in other worlds. It was very unusual and exciting reading for that time. Don't you remember what the thing is?
            18. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 22: 14
              +1
              Of course I remember! Eduard Gevorkyan, "The rules of the game without rules".
            19. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 22: 18
              +2
              So it’s a luxurious thing, I read in the very beginning of the seventies and still remember. Thank you for reminding the author, be sure to re-read. Does he have anything else in the same vein?
            20. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 22: 29
              +1
              You are mistaken, the second half of the eighties. He probably doesn’t. But I can offer a decent selection of contemporary authors.
            21. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 22: 32
              +2
              No, I'm not mistaken. Between 72 and 74. Between the first marriage and a successful divorce, my wife advised me to read, "in your spirit," she said.
            22. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 22: 43
              +1
              Hmmm ... Perhaps it was published somewhere ... I climbed the bibliography, I did not find any publications earlier than 87, although he is practically your age. In any case, the work is significant, perhaps the first of the "action" genre in Russian science fiction.
            23. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 22: 48
              +2
              This thing was in the collection, but what kind of collection, of course, I do not remember.
            24. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 22: 53
              +2
              a landmark work, perhaps the first of the action genre in Russian science fiction.

              Yes, this is what hooked me, a completely unusual idea and plot. It is a pity that Gevorgyan did not "develop the topic". Today, what kind of nonsense is not published in multivolume books with a continuation.
            25. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 23: 09
              +2
              Uncle Kostya, don't grumble! They always published what was in trend. There will be a version that the coronavirus is of plant origin and is transmitted by the bite of a predatory tomato, "Day of the Triffids" will find a new life and a new reading.
            26. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 23: 13
              +3
              "Day of Triffids" has eternal life, regardless of the coronavirus with predatory tomatoes. I do not grumble, "It's a shame for the State." drinks
            27. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 19 2020 23: 40
              +1
              Exactly what you grumble! For, as Oleg Divov (one of the leading Russian science fiction writers) said, when asked about the essence of science fiction: "We bring garbage to the masses!" But one must distinguish between wheat and chaff. The same Divov, although I love him very much, has a frankly sucking cycle of novels.
            28. Catfish
              Catfish April 19 2020 23: 49
              +2
              Conversely, I have not read Divov. And about "shit to the masses" - it's great! For one thing, you can respect. I would have respected the guarantor if he thumped something like that into the microphone. laughing
            29. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave April 20 2020 00: 16
              +2
              it's great!
              Essentially! This is the main difference between science fiction writers and folk historians.
              And as for the "ash-sun", everything is in the best grand-ducal traditions: "he defeated the Pechenegs and Polovtsians," divided the country into appanages, self-isolated ... Are we waiting for the "Mongols"?
            30. Catfish
              Catfish April 20 2020 00: 54
              +2
              "If anyone climbed up to me, so is that Tatar." Now the Mongols too ... won't it be too much? laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 22: 35
    +2
    Yes, and throw off the selection in PM, I will be grateful. smile
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 19 2020 22: 46
    +1
    Good, but it's a long conversation.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 22: 50
    +2
    Why long? Do you mean the following discussion?
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 19 2020 22: 59
    +2
    No, I mean addiction to one or another genre. You like "battle fiction", but I breathe evenly towards it. I really love "steam-punk", and you may be sick of it ... But points of contact are always possible, according to books, authors, genres.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 23: 05
    +2
    You will laugh, but I really don't know what "steam-punk" is, with "battle fiction" it seems clear, at least I seem to understand the word "battle".
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 19 2020 23: 28
    +2
    Steampunk .... From foreign, perhaps, the most striking work "Machine of Differences" by Gibson and Sterling (funny, of course, but they are the founding fathers of another direction, "cyberpunk", also my favorite). From ours, Vadim Panov with the "Hermeticon" cycle, from the cinema: "Wild, Wild West", "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", "Vanhelsing" and both "Sherlock Holmes" directed by Guy Ritchie.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 23: 33
    +2
    From all this I only know "Vanhelsing", but you did not explain what exactly the term "Steampunk" means. And now also Cyber. Let’s bring the fire of enlightenment to the Ryazan village. And then I associate the word "punk" with some unwashed moron. request
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 20 2020 00: 03
    +2
    So I'm an unwashed, stupid person laughing
    Damn, then you need to start with the basics. Punk is not Sid Vicious and Nina Hagen. Punk culture is the search for and the attainment of beauty in the base, fleeting, transient, with the awareness of the imperfection of oneself and the world. Diogenes - punk, Christ - punk, VanGog - punk, Japanese traditional culture - punks squared.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 20 2020 00: 56
    0
    This is too difficult for me, let's put it off until tomorrow. I wipe my eyes - I'll get in touch, now it's full of "alles p ... kaput". hi
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich April 19 2020 14: 52
    -1
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    It is a pity that this does not happen with vodka and gasoline.

    Have you kept Sergei’s recipe?

    Increases 4-5 times, only
    when cooking
    . yes
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 19 2020 15: 08
    +2
    In the case of the Russian Federation, only the cost of gasoline increases during "cooking".
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 12: 34
    +4
    A boiler ... hassle ... it’s better somehow. Yes, and more humane yet.
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 19 2020 11: 45
    +3
    No, I'm not a racist. But I'm sorry for the dog !!!!!
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 12: 19
    +5
    Yes, I feel sorry for the dog, but also sorry that you are not racist. Do you want to join our company with Anton?
  • Phil77
    Phil77 April 19 2020 14: 34
    +3
    And you don’t have party memberships ??? A * candidate minimum * what? * Father and maybe you are still a party member? *.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 19 2020 12: 28
    +3
    Well, at least something good about dogs!
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 13: 38
    +5
    There are a lot of good things about dogs. For example:
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent April 19 2020 12: 37
    +4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    No, guys, I won’t give you a machine gun ...

    A machine gun, in fact, is rare (Hotchkiss Model 1922, also called M1924 and M1926, powered by tape cassettes), such goods are not scattered wink


  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 13: 34
    +5
    Exactly, he is. After the first viewing of the film that same week, I bought a ticket for it again and sat on the first row. Stuck up "I can not" what kind of car. Somehow I saw and climbed through the catalogs to rummage. Found, but not immediately.
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 08: 52
    +6
    Already told his wife, she was delighted and immediately took up her cell phone. laughing
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 09: 02
      +5
      * Brief description of the Yukos case.
      -Komsomol members stole oil from the people.
      - The Chekists stole oil from the Komsomol members.
      -Now the people, for the oil squeezed out from them, must pay the Komsomol members 50 mln. Dollars.
      Bottom line: the Komsomol members-50 mln.dollars.
      The Chekists have oil, but the people have no money. A good multi-way. * fellow
  • bubalik
    bubalik April 19 2020 10: 26
    +11
    To somehow calm down
    ,,, oh well, everything will be fine. winked
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 10: 47
      +5
      Hi Seryoga! Look at YouTube about the Red Sun! It's really funny !!!! laughing
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave April 19 2020 08: 46
    +4
    Here! This is who was the "zero" infected !!! Burn her!
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 08: 49
      +6
      You can’t! * They are children! * stop
      Yes, and sorry for the girl, they use it blindly. But users would ...
    2. Catfish
      Catfish April 19 2020 08: 54
      +5
      Masha liked your proposal no less than Seryogin liked the joke about "somehow calm down". wink
  • Insurgent
    Insurgent April 19 2020 10: 12
    +7
    Quote: Phil77
    Greta! Baby! Are you satisfied? *

    Woo! yes wassat

    1. Catfish
      Catfish April 19 2020 10: 15
      +6
      Zvizdets! I cracked with laughter! good laughing laughing laughing
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 19 2020 10: 18
        +3
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Zvizdets! I cracked with laughter!

        thank you for rating yes
        1. Catfish
          Catfish April 19 2020 10: 19
          +5
          But how could it be otherwise, now I won’t sleep at night, I’ll dream of such a thing! laughing
  • Svarog
    Svarog April 19 2020 09: 38
    +2
    Quote: Phil77
    * My son has been wearing a T-shirt with the inscription "I am for Putin" for two weeks. During this time they spat at him, and even tried to throw a bottle at him.
    What will happen to him if he leaves the house? *

    Laughed the whole family laughing good hi
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny April 19 2020 10: 04
      +3
      That is, the kid will be killed, and you all will laugh as a family?
      1. Svarog
        Svarog April 19 2020 10: 06
        +1
        Quote: Okolotochny
        That is, the kid will be killed, and you all will laugh as a family?

        Do you think that they’ve already started killing Putin’s T-shirt? wassat In general, this is a joke if that .. wassat
      2. Catfish
        Catfish April 19 2020 10: 18
        +3
        You shouldn't be so, Alexey. People joke, but the joke "helps to build and live." Especially at such a time. smile
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny April 19 2020 21: 19
          +3
          Konstantin, you see, there is a category of mentally ill people for whom the word Putin causes hysterical laughter, sudden sweating, itching all over the body, etc. They can’t even eat normally. Mimino remember? - He felt such dislike for the victim that he could not eat. This category also exists in the VO - any article on any topic, in the comments they turn and heart-rendingly shout that Russia is dying. In such a patient and wrote.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish April 19 2020 21: 36
            +2
            Alexey, no one shouted that Russia was dying, I mean Sergey, such whining is not in his spirit. For example, I do not like either the situation in the country, or those who run this country, but I do not lose my appetite and eat with pleasure. And to say that Russia is dying is too much, they have “died” more than once, but somehow it does not work out. But what is happening now will just show how competent the authorities are and how they control the situation. So far, I judge from Moscow and Ryazan, some throwing in opposite directions is observed. Well, wait and see. The main thing is that we live in one country and we should not be at enmity, but think about how to live on. smile
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny April 19 2020 21: 46
              +5
              I won’t say a word for Sergey, I respect the comrade. Open Absolutely Any Comment of Svarog and see for yourself. Stasiks and others are also noted there. Now, under the article - open the author’s articles on the history of the country and comments by pseudo-communists? What will you see? Poison, this is their lot. But Shpakovsky is right, all serious intelligence agencies and their analytical units begin their day by viewing periodicals, previously paper editions, now Internet resources, I won’t be surprised if they look at VOs as well. From one piece of news, absolutely opposite conclusions can be drawn - for example, the workers of the N-th collective farm (state farm) won the battle for the harvest with victory. They extended a helping hand to the SA, students of technical schools and universities. The good news is it? Another conclusion is the absolutely unsuitable planning of the harvest season, the lack of human resources, vehicles, storage capacities, etc.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish April 19 2020 22: 29
                +3
                You gave an excellent example with the N-state farm. One and the same event can be interpreted in completely different ways. How we would like to stop our useless abuse and try, at least here, to find the "golden mean", the truth, it is always between two poles. Only, alas, this is unlikely to work.
                And the fact that specialists look at our side, I have no doubt, the side is military-analytical, someone, it is not clear why, considers it to be patriotic, but many people perceive this concept differently, for some, patriotism is the service of the system and idol , for others, just the homeland. But the Motherland and the system of government in it are the essence of the concept completely different.
                So it would be foolish for specialists to pass by our "verbal exercises".
      3. Phil77
        Phil77 April 19 2020 10: 26
        +3
        Alexei, you must admit that times are not easy now, to put it mildly. Therefore, smiling once again will not hurt anyone. Well, I’m not talking about just laughing out loud, but loudly!
        Do not like the joke? Well, I will work on the search. fellow
      4. Insurgent
        Insurgent April 19 2020 10: 29
        +3
        Quote: Okolotochny
        That is, the kid will be killed, and you all will laugh as a family?

        Alas, domestic violence,as an educational process, ineradicably wassat lol laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave April 19 2020 10: 49
          +5
          And to be honest, my mother’s hose from the washing machine did me a favor!
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 10: 22
      +3
      Glad I liked it! laughing
    3. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 19 2020 10: 24
      +5
      Quote: Svarog
      Laughed the whole family

      Also, to prolong a good mood: https://youtu.be/WSxqnkPdG40 (I will not post the video, it contains profanity and certain moments of extremely harsh satire in relation to GDP and the actions of the authorities, therefore - viewing at will, in Yu-tube)

      1. Phil77
        Phil77 April 19 2020 10: 42
        +4
        I looked! I laughed! Conclusion: this is on the first channel / with a small letter! / - you will not see !!!
        This is about the issue of mass propaganda. laughing
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ April 19 2020 16: 05
        -1
        Thank! Very relevant and topical.
    4. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 11: 51
      +5
      And here you have more!
      * Daughter, like everyone studies remotely.
      Most of all I was pleased with the teacher of labor.
      wash, clean the apartment, wash the dishes, do all the homework and send a video report. *
    5. Olgovich
      Olgovich April 19 2020 15: 01
      -8
      Quote: Svarog
      My son has been wearing a T-shirt with the inscription "I am for Putin" for two weeks. During this time, they spat at him, and even tried to throw a bottle at him.
      What will happen to himif he leaves the house?*

      Laughed

      That is, they spat and threw at the kid ... at home, in the family. belay
      The child has a good "family", from ..fool !

      from this one. yes, you have to run .. yes
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar April 19 2020 11: 07
    +6
    I wear T-shirts with Putin. Our Crimea, Putin is Good and a sweatshirt with Putin. Polite people - like nothing)).
    1. Okolotochny
      Okolotochny April 19 2020 22: 04
      +2
      Is there a smiling BB on the back?)))
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar April 19 2020 22: 09
        +2
        Not ... unfortunately, I did not take the shirts of the Israeli propaganda propaganda with me)). Bibi is garbage, in Israel the army theme is popular, such as the inscription in capital letters - which does not kill, tempers. Below in smaller letters - that which kills, tempers your mother. And on the back - and what kills your mother - gives an extraordinary quitrent fellow
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny April 20 2020 07: 37
          +4
          Well, it's humor on the edge.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar April 20 2020 07: 45
            +1
            Everything is on the verge there laughing
  • Catfish
    Catfish April 19 2020 08: 21
    +7
    Hi Nephew! hi
    This is from the same opera where Gogol sits on an oak tree and sends all to hell! But in verse it was wonderful ...
    Dovlatov read a long time ago and I don’t remember the name of the book, there was a moment when his friend was supposed to be planted, and Dovlatov drove him to the zone to acquaint him with the ensign whose friend was supposed to sit. They poured in fishing line near the zone in full.
    - Sit guys while I'm alive. - So, it seems ensign them and admonished. drinks
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 08: 37
      +6
      * The politician arrived in a remote village.
      * Well people, what are your problems? *
      It turns out the head of the gathering
      * There is a health center, but no doctor. *
      The politician takes out his mobile phone, yells at someone into the pipe for a long time, then he tells the audience:
      * So, I decided this problem, the doctor will be tomorrow! More?
      Chapter: * Yes, you know, in our village there is no mobile communication, how to deal with it? *
      1. ccsr
        ccsr April 19 2020 12: 19
        +4
        Quote: Phil77
        Chapter: * Yes, you know, in our village there is no mobile communication, how to deal with it? *

        So the "smart" politicians have gone - they drive off the beaten track with satellites, but people don't know about it ...
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 April 19 2020 14: 18
          +2
          Quote: ccsr
          So the "smart" politicians have gone - they drive off the beaten track with satellites, but people don't know about it ...

          No, everything is simpler and more cynical, worthless to the promises of politicians and the fact that they broadcast to us in a * pipe *! hi
  • parusnik
    parusnik April 19 2020 07: 58
    +9
    .... And a slightly late interpretation: "Soviet Russia" is sold, "Pravda" is not and will not be, "Trud" remained for 2 kopecks ..
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich April 19 2020 10: 09
    -4
    Quote: Sea Cat
    "Pravdv" is sold, "Labor" costs 2 kopecks, there is only one "Gudok" left. Something like that, but I don't remember exactly.

    I remember many of them:

    this is from the 70s:

    There is no news in Pravda,
    There is no truth in Izvestia.


    This is from the 80s:
    A guy asks at the kiosk. - "Is there a truth? - there is no truth. -" Soviet Russia? - Sold. - And the Komsomol member? “For sale over there on the corner. - What is left? - Labor for 3 kopecks.
  • Octopus
    Octopus April 19 2020 15: 16
    0
    Quote: Sea Cat
    I do not remember exactly.

    Do you have newspapers?
    There is no news, The truth is over, the whole Motherland has been sold, only Gudok and Labor for 5 kopecks.
  • apro
    apro April 19 2020 08: 12
    +8
    Reading the author’s articles on historical topics ... based on today's realities. A thought comes in. Our ancestors didn’t understand anything ... they didn’t. They didn’t go there ..
    They lived in their own conditions. Before them stood their tasks. And they performed them based on their capabilities.
    They did what they could. Now it’s your turn to show how it is necessary.
    1. kalibr
      April 19 2020 08: 34
      +5
      Quote: apro
      NOW YOUR TURN SHOW HOW TO.

      Very good, dear Oleg, you said! Each generation has its own ... and everyone does what they can. Now, yes, it's up to ... the current generation. I can only say: if old age could, but youth knew. But I also do what I can.
    2. Svarog
      Svarog April 19 2020 09: 40
      +1
      Quote: apro
      They did what they could. Now it’s your turn to show how it is necessary.

      Rather, as they can .. but it turns out badly with them .. unlike their ancestors.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny April 19 2020 10: 05
        +4
        At "them." Are you an outside observer? Or how do you change a hat in a movie with cockades and stars? What did you do besides whining?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar April 19 2020 11: 17
          +3
          Hello, Alexey! Let’s build socialism and think in lines for toilet paper for three - we’ll live fellow
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny April 19 2020 21: 21
            +4
            Well, yes, and in stores there are only pyramids of canned pollock and sprats in tomato, I don’t want to eat)))
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 21: 26
              +1
              Slander him on the Soviet way of life - there was still sea kale am A lot of )).
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid April 19 2020 23: 30
            -2
            I have long wanted to ask at least someone ---- well, what was this paper given? Was there any suffering for her? Somehow humanity lived alternatively, not paper. .....
            Quote: Krasnodar
            Hello, Alexey! Let’s build socialism and think in lines for toilet paper for three - we’ll live fellow
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar April 19 2020 23: 33
              +1
              Paper is a symbol of the party’s concern for the population and the effectiveness of the planned econgmics of the USSR fellow
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid April 19 2020 23: 43
                0
                PARTY like, other tasks should set and carry out? People went out into the deserts, not just without paper, but there was not enough water. Persecution. And there was no party. Ancestors. And nothing. Across the world settled.
                Quote: Krasnodar
                Paper is a symbol of the party’s concern for the population and the effectiveness of the planned econgmics of the USSR fellow
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar April 20 2020 00: 02
                  +2
                  It is precisely that the party controlled all spheres of life. And she chose specialists in her knowledge of the role of Marxism-Leninism in the production of hygiene products. )))
                  And as for the ancestors - here we went alone to Germany and turned out Karl Marla - the father of ideas laughing
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid April 20 2020 00: 14
                    0
                    ..... here they wandered to Germany ......
                    And to Africa, and to England, and to America ...... And all without toilet paper. And they never even talked about it. hi hi
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar April 20 2020 07: 37
                      +1
                      Yes, it is not the paper itself that matters, but the absence of the declared "concern for a person", etc.
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid April 20 2020 08: 05
                        -1
                        This is now the absence of paper then, overgrown with some global concepts. But you do not blame your ancestors for this? And there were strong personalities, but there was no paper ... request recourse ... Mom told me so ---- people were curious and had an interest in all sorts of innovations, but the main thing --- it was good for the children, they had to be taken to kindergarten. Do or die. Who carried ---- he was in authorization. No ----- eternal shame.
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        Yes, it is not the paper itself that matters, but the absence of the declared "concern for a person", etc.

                        Oh oh come on! Care --- vacation, sanatorium, sick leave, after operations they could be on sick leave for a long time
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 20 2020 08: 48
                        +1
                        In theory, Soviet medicine was the best in the world, because provided for:
                        Diagnostics - first outpatient, then in the hospital
                        Treated in the hospital
                        Sanatorium rehabilitation after hospitalization / postoperative
                        In fact, self-isolation from the West left the formulation of incorrect diagnoses a scourge of medicine, because the latest laboratory and visualization diagnostic methods were not adopted - then the treatment clogged the symptoms and the untreated person was still sent to the sanatorium.
                        Operations - due to separation from the global medical community, what was done minimally invasive from surgical methods in the West, continued to be performed abdominal in the USSR - often blindly, due to the lack of imaging equipment, which delayed the development of medicine for decades, adversely affecting the endurance of patients .
                      3. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid April 20 2020 08: 56
                        -1
                        Are your arguments interesting, how true are they? This is necessary on purpose. keep track of everything .....
                      4. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar April 20 2020 09: 29
                        0
                        Everything is very simple - in the mid-0s, little by little the diagnostic and treatment methods that were practiced in the West in the 80s began to be introduced.
      2. Octopus
        Octopus April 20 2020 00: 50
        +3
        Quote: Reptiloid
        I have long wanted to ask at least someone ---- well, what was this paper given?

        You young people do not understand. And after thirty years — forty, if you use a newspaper instead of paper — you will immediately find out in what sense the bloody regime is.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 21 2020 02: 36
          -1
          Not so I am youth !!!!!!! It is not clear why paper napkins were not allowed. I’ll supplement them everywhere. What rested on paper?
  • Icelord
    Icelord April 19 2020 11: 31
    +1
    On the contrary, much better, there were many foreign cars in the USSR?
  • BREAKTHROUGH READY
    BREAKTHROUGH READY April 19 2020 13: 50
    +3
    In comparison with the inhabitants of the Union, modern Russians have a much higher standard of living, and adjusted for social and technological progress.
    For the most part, our ancestors were not asked what to do and where to go, but we can and should learn from their mistakes.
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 19 2020 12: 24
    +6
    Quote: apro
    They did what they could. Now it’s your turn to show how it is necessary.

    The absolutely correct conclusion is that we easily learned to spit in the past, but to create something sensible over the past thirty years, everything somehow comes out sideways. In the USSR, plague and cholera were cured without popular shocks, and now they are worn with a virus like a written bag. And at the same time they also criticize the past life, especially the Stalin period - for example, Shpakovsky specializes in newspapers of the past, although they tried to explain to him more than once that one cannot blindly believe what was written there for propaganda purposes.
    1. kalibr
      April 19 2020 12: 34
      +2
      Quote: ccsr
      one cannot blindly believe what they wrote there for propaganda purposes

      That is, in the "Pravda" organ of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) for propaganda purposes they wrote lies? And where else was it written for the same purposes?
      1. ccsr
        ccsr April 19 2020 13: 01
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        That is, in the "Pravda" organ of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) wrote a lie for propaganda purposes?

        Embellished some aspects of our life. As Trump does on Twitter now, you read him and you realize that the propagandists from Pravda are just little children in front of this "professor" in politics.
        Quote: kalibr
        And where else was it written for the same purpose?

        Well, you, as a former political worker, probably know this better without me - at that time I went to Penza in a research institute in the very center of the city, not far from the gallery of one painting, and there was no time for a factory known in narrow circles on the outskirts.
      2. BAI
        BAI April 19 2020 20: 21
        -1
        That is, in the "Pravda" organ of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) for propaganda purposes they wrote lies? And where else was it written for the same purposes?

        For propaganda purposes, always and everywhere, any (state and non-state) media write a lie. In any state, in any system. The whole question is in quantity. Propaganda is a lie by definition. The propaganda person is a liar by definition.
        1. kalibr
          April 20 2020 11: 45
          +1
          And over there, a man wrote that promoting a healthy lifestyle and brushing your teeth is good ...
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 19 2020 23: 48
    -2
    Quote: apro
    Reading the author’s articles on historical topics ... based on today's realities. A thought comes in. Our ancestors didn’t understand anything ... they didn’t. They didn’t go there ..
    They lived in their own conditions. Before them stood their tasks. And they performed them based on their capabilities.
    They did what they could. Now it’s your turn to show how it is necessary.

    Well yes! SHOULD laugh that they did not know how to use a smartphone ((sarcasm ---- ss))
  • paul72
    paul72 April 19 2020 09: 11
    +6
    A review of the liberal press in 80-90 will be? What is there with two Volga for a voucher?
    1. Fat
      Fat April 19 2020 17: 13
      +3
      Quote: paul72
      A review of the liberal press in 80-90 will be? What is there with two Volga for a voucher?

      But it won't be, you have written deliberate nonsense. The value of the voucher is 10 rubles. Volga, a new model, already in January 000 cost more than 1991 at the state price ... These papers in night kiosks of the times of the voucher of the people were exchanged for a bottle of vodka, or even beer ... for receiving a beautiful coupon, the voucher holders paid 16 rubles from their salary ... No one really explained in any press what to do with this "miracle" of the national division fool
      And about the fantasies of Chubais in the summer of 1992, even talking ... is not worth it. This shot estimated ALL Russian popular goods at just 1400 billion rubles.
      AiF, like a newspaper since 1988, Komersant from 1990, MK from 1929 - while all these publications continue to be.
      Contact the editorial office and, most likely, you will find ALL the completeness of the liberalism of the late USSR. And then nafik you have a proprietary "archive review" from V.O. Shpakovsky, if everything is available anyway?
  • 1536
    1536 April 19 2020 09: 20
    +9
    Here is a quote from a speech by George Dimitrov, the Bulgarian communist, delivered by him at the Leipzig trial in 1933, where the Nazis falsely accused the German Communists of setting fire to the Reichstag:
    "Speaking of propaganda, many of the speeches here were of this nature. The speeches of Goebbels and Goering also had an indirect propaganda effect in favor of communism, but no one can make them responsible for the fact that their speeches had such a propaganda effect."
    The lies of the Nazis in 1933 were still visible, undisguised. It was later that they began to kill people in concentration camps and in the Gestapo, and then they seemed "respectable people" who were even allowed to go to court. But even then people opened their eyes.
    Let me remind you that the Leipzig trial took place on September 21 - December 23, 1933 in the German Imperial Court in the city of Leipzig. It was organized by the leadership of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) that came to power in Germany in order to defeat the Communist Party of Germany (KKE), other left and democratic parties and organizations and establish a terrorist dictatorship in the country. The accused at the trial were the chairman of the KKE faction in the Reichstag, E. Torgler, the Bulgarian communists G. Dimitrov, B. Popov and V. Tanev, who lived in Germany, as well as the young Dutch anarchist M. van der Lubbe detained in the Reichstag building at the time of the fire. During the hearing, Dimitrov completely denied the charges against the Communists and blamed the Nazi leadership for arson of the Reichstag.

    As for the above "fantastic" drawing of ANT-20 "Maxim Gorky", named after the great writer, then in 1933 months passed from drawings to their implementation, not decades. For example, the planes created according to the drawings in the Pravda newspaper flew and were not “refined” for another ten years in the design bureaus and at factories. And no one pulled money with impunity.
    And what is wrong said in the newspaper Pravda in that year 1933 in these two seemingly unrelated spheres: politics and construction? There is no need to laugh at history, it tends to repeat itself.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 19 2020 10: 47
      0
      Quote: 1536
      You don’t have to laugh at history; it has the property of repeating itself.

      And beat hard, punishing ...
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 19 2020 10: 10
    -4
    Good article. Direct parallels with our time.
    And how time was perceived then.
    1. Rate
      Rate April 19 2020 10: 54
      +1
      Quote: Max1995
      Good article. Direct parallels with our time.
      And how time was perceived then.

      Well, yes, there is something to poke and blame the USSR!
  • Undecim
    Undecim April 19 2020 10: 15
    +8
    Maybe one of the readers of "VO" will realize?
    And the note completely could not be placed.
    The newspaper, if not jerking, for 1933. In the picture is an airplane that was not there.
    It is very similar in layout to the "universal wing" of Grokhovsky's G-37, which was being built at that time, only the G-37 is a twin-engine.
  • bubalik
    bubalik April 19 2020 11: 34
    +8
    ,,, it turns out that in those years they traded around the clock. belay what
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 April 19 2020 14: 51
      +6
      But is this an advertisement of the store for the currency where the cat Hippo and Koroviev went?
      1. Freeman
        Freeman April 21 2020 01: 15
        +1
        Quote: Phil77
        But is this an advertisement of the store for the currency where the cat Hippo and Koroviev went?

        No. Hippopotamus and Koroviev were here.

        It was.


        It has become.

        On the street Arbat, No. 50-52 - a house with a Smolensky grocery store (or Grocery store No. 2; the former Torgsin store), now a grocery store of the Alphabet of Taste chain. Here is one of the episodes of the novel "The Master and Margarita." Before the October Revolution, the restaurant of Ignatius Alexandrovich Zverev and the shops of the merchant Troilin were located here.
        wiki


        And the advertisement does not indicate Arbat, but Tverskaya. I did not find a photo of this department store. Apparently the building was demolished during the reconstruction of Gorky St. (Tverskaya) in the 30s of the twentieth century.
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene April 19 2020 13: 17
    +2
    About the article and the author

    Our "whistle-blower" will not calm down, but, as always, it was enough only for a "storm in a glass."
    But, let us be indulgent towards him: what is the author - such and such topics. The author has a petty-bourgeois consciousness, and his themes are the same - shallow.

    You don’t even have to tear, but insert pictures from the 1933 Pravda newspaper, and bite or cynically coddle about the little things, like - “Cherry on the cake: the arrest of E. Telman” - a big mind is not necessary.

    True, the author touched on the “burning” today “historical-materialistic” issue - blurring the distinction between a woman and a man ...

    But this is bad luck: the CPSU fought for the equal rights of women and men, but our author did not understand this, and considered that "equality"And"blurring differences"Between a man and a woman is the same thing.

    But it is felt that Shpakovsky had been tormenting this issue for a long time, he was visible in the CPSU because of this, and now he is glad that this problem was successfully solved by bourgeois society, which really managed to remove the distinction between a woman and a man, and create a creature of the third kind -IT. Gay parades are proof of this.
    1. kalibr
      April 19 2020 15: 36
      +4
      Oh, Green was noted ... But didn’t you write last time that the horrors of fascism became known only after 1945, and before that there was no reason to write about them, they were unknown. It turns out as well known!
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene April 19 2020 18: 09
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        And didn’t you write last time that the horrors of fascism became known only after 1945, and before that there was no reason to write about them, they were unknown. It turns out as well known!

        Can't you see the difference between Germany in 1933 and 1945?

        What you quoted (from the Pravda newspaper in 1933) is all a description of the torture chambers in which the communists were tortured and killed. Where were they not tortured? Where did they not kill? This is the everyday life of a bourgeois state and no one was surprised at this. Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebnecht were brutally killed, and then there was still no fascism.

        They were surprised and horrified by Nazism only after 1945, when it became known large-scale the destruction of millions of people using gas chambers in death camps, mass executions of civilians in captured territories, the genocide of entire nations and races, mass the Nazi extermination of Slavs, Gypsies, Jews and especially Soviet citizens. I emphasize - massive.

        Well, for sure, a loser.
        1. kalibr
          April 20 2020 06: 52
          0
          It is always so, as you take people like you by the balls, and start wagging, just to justify the triumph of communism. But last time it was not about a mass character, but about whether Pravda could write about the atrocities of fascism before the year 45. And as you can see, she could and did write. But only until August 23, 39. And then the atrocities ceased to interest her. That is, our policy was as pragmatic and cynical as any other imperialist state. And that's not bad, by the way. But being covered by a left-wing phrase, such a policy caused ... "surprise" inside the country. And among workers and even peasants! As evidenced by the corresponding reports "where necessary". But ... why it was impossible to explain to people like that. And so, little by little "the snake ate its own tail", and it all ended in 91st. However, in the series of articles "Poisoned Feather" I have already written about this. An information gap between the declared lofty ideals and the pragmatic policy of the state must not be allowed. Or people need to explain it all.
          But I liked this: "Where were they not tortured? Where were they not killed? This is the everyday life of a bourgeois state and no one was surprised at this." Considering how many communists were killed and tortured in the USSR. We were, it turns out, a normal bourgeois state!
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene April 20 2020 09: 21
            -1
            Quote: kalibr
            It’s always the way you take eggs like you,

            Also to me - an egg holder, take care of yours better, otherwise .... can sneak up unnoticed. ..

            Everyone knows what kind of expert you are to misinterpret and turn events, but you can’t do a little bit of a correct analysis of the political situation before the war. It is simply amazing how you were admitted to teaching the History of the CPSU if you are neither a foot in the tooth, nor in history, nor in international politics, nor in the dialectic of the class struggle.

            Your hints that in the USSR, allegedly, they also killed and tortured the Communists are not wealthy. The USSR was cleansed of traitors engaged in wrecking. There were, of course, slandered, because people like you wrote denunciations to their colleagues to take their place, apartment or something else.

            And now about stopping criticism of fascism in the official media after August 23, 1939, which you, by your own misunderstanding, or maybe on purpose, blame the Soviet leadership.

            You don’t even know how to think about the political situation in the world at that time, the USSR would be left alone with the aggressor, and if the Soviet government had not concluded an agreement with Germany, then the war would have begun for him already in 1939. And so I.V. To enable the country to prepare for war, Stalin took advantage of the contradictions between the imperialist states and made them fight among themselves.

            In two years of delaying the war, the USSR managed to do a lot to prepare the country for war. Not only that, Hitler, contrary to his wishes, helped the USSR strengthen its defenses. The USSR, under the Treaty, came from Germany machine tools, technologies, tools, warships, radio equipment, special devices. And all this the USSR received for the delivered stubble, unenriched ore, etc. raw materials.

            Many provocateurs, dreaming of the defeat of the USSR, at that time wanted to continue to expose fascism in order to disrupt the treaty. Only Stalin was wiser, he understood that this should not be done, that the country needed to buy time to rearm the army in order to survive in a future war.

            Communists around the world at that time correctly assessed the policies of the Soviet state. To break E. Telman, the Gestapo men showed him the Treaty between the USSR and Germany, and tried to convince him that Stalin had betrayed the Communists of Germany and was now friends with Hitler.
            To which Telman replied: "Everything that Comrade Stalin does is right!"

            Only you, along with other anti-advisers, do not understand this or do not want to understand it.
            1. kalibr
              April 20 2020 09: 26
              0
              Quote: Alexander Green
              There were, of course, slandered,

              How touching!
              Quote: Alexander Green
              To which Telman replied: "Everything that Comrade Stalin does is right!"

              It may very well be. But he leaned back, like everyone else, and all his truth left with him ...
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene April 20 2020 09: 45
                +1
                Quote: kalibr
                But he leaned back, like everyone else, and all his truth left with him ...

                What kind of nonsense? The truth is not dying.
                1. kalibr
                  April 20 2020 10: 02
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  What kind of nonsense? The truth is not dying.

                  If truth had not died with its carriers, we would still live in the USSR today. I already wrote to you once, that it’s very sad that you are trying to judge serious things, but you don’t know the most basic thing.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene April 20 2020 18: 10
                    +1
                    Quote: kalibr
                    If truth had not died with its carriers,

                    What kind of nonsense? The truth is not the clothes in which its “carriers” are buried. The truth is ideas. And ideas are immortal, and there are always people who pick up and implement these ideas.
                    1. kalibr
                      April 20 2020 18: 24
                      -1
                      I already wrote to you that you do not know elementary things and here it is again.
                      There were Stalin's ideas, but Khrushchev survived him, threw him out of the mausoleum and declared a personality cult. And no one lifted a finger. Everything on his truth ... done! Brezhnev was younger than Khrushchev. He sent him to retirement, buried the ideas of the economic councils and accused him of voluntarism. And everyone who got fucked from him during Khrushchev's time, did it together ... Then ... Then young Gorbachev declared Brezhnev's time an era of stagnation, and everyone who had something with him joined perestroika in the hope of getting even more. Remember, in any dispute, it is not the one who is right in essence that wins, but the one who is younger, because he outlives his opponent. As the saying goes, you will never see my grave, and I will still laugh, standing on yours! And the fact that someone finds something ... yes, it does. Picks up? Yes, and they do, too - yes, it happens. And they even get rich, sometimes, on the antiques trade. But antiques have never been a top priority in society. Young people don't really need broken pots or old ideas. Young girls need young guys, and young guys need lots of pretty and young girls and cool cars.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene April 21 2020 00: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I already wrote to you that you don’t know elementary things, and here it is again ... Remember, in any dispute it is not the one who is right in essence who wins, but the one who is younger because he is outliving his opponent ..

                        What a foolishness of thought. It seems that you did not study at university. Do you really believe that the laws of the development of society can be squeezed into your petty-bourgeois philistine worldview?
                      2. kalibr
                        April 21 2020 06: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        There were ideas of Stalin, but Khrushchev survived him, threw him out of the mausoleum and declared a personality cult. And nobody raised a finger. Everything on his truth ... did! Brezhnev was younger than Khrushchev. He sent him to retire, buried the ideas of the economic councils and accused him of voluntarism. And everyone who raped him under Khrushchev, did it together ... Then ... Then the young Gorbachev declared Brezhnev's time an era of stagnation, and everyone who raped something with him, unanimously hit the perestroika in the hope of having more.

                        In essence of these events there is nothing to say. This clearly did not happen, and I came up with it ... Here, there are precisely the laws of the development of society. New people cancel old ideas. And just because I studied at a university and graduate school, and worked with documents from a dozen archives, I write that. And who is criticizing me? Sailing merchant fleet is ridiculous. The virus will end, I’ll get to your archives too, look specifically at the ships ...
                      3. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid April 21 2020 07: 42
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        There were ideas of Stalin, but Khrushchev survived him, threw him out of the mausoleum and declared a personality cult. And nobody raised a finger. Everything on his truth ... did! Brezhnev was younger than Khrushchev. He sent him to retire, buried the ideas of the economic councils and accused him of voluntarism. And everyone who raped him under Khrushchev, did it together ... Then ... Then the young Gorbachev declared Brezhnev's time an era of stagnation, and everyone who raped something with him, unanimously hit the perestroika in the hope of having more.

                        In essence of these events there is nothing to say. This clearly did not happen, and I came up with it ... Here, there are precisely the laws of the development of society. New people cancel old ideas. And just because I studied at a university and graduate school, and worked with documents from a dozen archives, I write that. And who is criticizing me? Sailing merchant fleet is ridiculous. The virus will end, I’ll get to your archives too, look specifically at the ships ...

                        And why did you say your words, Vyacheslav Olegovich, as a quote from Green? The last phrase showed their prejudice and bias?
                      4. kalibr
                        April 21 2020 08: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        The last phrase showed their prejudice and bias?

                        But in general, Dmitry, I am biased towards many people and am very subjective in my opinions. Objectivity is for people like you.
                    2. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 21 2020 14: 12
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      In essence of these events there is nothing to say. This was clearly not, and I came up with it ..

                      You are also a fraudster, attributed your nonsense to me.
                    3. kalibr
                      April 21 2020 17: 39
                      +1
                      Is it not obvious from the comments that I wrote this first? You did not answer, I repeated ... that's all.
                      There were ideas of Stalin, but Khrushchev survived him, threw him out of the mausoleum and declared a personality cult. And nobody raised a finger. Everything on his truth ... did! Brezhnev was younger than Khrushchev. He sent him to retire, buried the ideas of the economic councils and accused him of voluntarism. And everyone who raped him under Khrushchev, did it together ... Then ... Then the young Gorbachev declared Brezhnev's time an era of stagnation, and everyone who raped something with him, unanimously hit the perestroika in the hope of having more.
                      And is this nonsense? This is our story briefly. But if you consider her nonsense, then I ... for!
                    4. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 21 2020 20: 51
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And is this nonsense? This is our story briefly. But if you consider her nonsense, then I ... for!

                      I do not consider History to be nonsense, but what you attributed to me is not history, but the writings of a historian-rascal from the Communist Party, somewhat reminiscent of medieval scholasticism, such as: Abraham gave birth to Isaac; Isaac begat Jacob; Jacob gave birth Judah...
                    5. kalibr
                      April 21 2020 22: 27
                      0
                      But after all, it was the same against the fact that there was no arguing:There were ideas of Stalin, but Khrushchev survived him, threw him out of the mausoleum and declared a personality cult. And nobody raised a finger. Everything on his truth ... did! Brezhnev was younger than Khrushchev. He sent him to retire, buried the ideas of the economic councils and accused him of voluntarism. And everyone who raped him under Khrushchev, did it together ... Then ... Then the young Gorbachev declared Brezhnev's time an era of stagnation, and everyone who raped something with him, unanimously hit the perestroika in the hope of having more.
                      And I wrote it. And you were invited to write - it was or not. Just yes or no, that's all. No stupid evasions!
                    6. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 22 2020 01: 04
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And I wrote it. And you were invited to write - it was or not. Just yes or no, that's all. No stupid evasions!

                      I don’t even want to comment on this primitive. This is at the level of Koreyshi "No bandy bends"
                    7. kalibr
                      April 22 2020 06: 47
                      0
                      Why are you afraid to answer directly, but wagging your ass like an old prostitute in front of a client? Previously, commies were bolder. No need to comment. Just say yes, no. And you are afraid. And by the way, I know why ....
                    8. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene April 22 2020 13: 45
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Why are you afraid to answer directly, but wagging your ass like an old prostitute in front of a client? Before, commies were bolder

                      Sorry, "respected" historian-raskrig from the CPSU, but evaluate your vyser yourself.

                      In the dictum of the holy fool "Without a band, no bends are ringing" For many years the clergy searched for meaning, but did not find it. So is yours, but unlike the churchmen, I am not going to waste my time on this.
                    9. The comment was deleted.
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            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene April 23 2020 19: 48
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              Why are you afraid to answer directly, but wagging your ass like an old prostitute in front of a client? Previously, commies were bolder. No need to comment. Just say yes, no. And you are afraid. And by the way, I know why ....


              It is unfortunate that my two answers have been deleted for you.
              Well, all right, but I understood the main thing from your example:
              Who and As wrote denunciations in the NKVD.
              Thank you.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 10: 24
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          But after all, it was the same against the fact that there was no arguing:

          But is it nothing that even with such events, these leaders managed to create a second world economy, especially against the backdrop of the shocks of World War II? Aren't you ashamed to contrast the small squabbles of the leaders with the great cause to which they gave their whole lives? This does not apply to Gorbachev - he is just a pygmy even against the background of Khrushchev, and he cannot be perceived as the leader of a superpower.
        3. kalibr
          April 22 2020 10: 29
          +1
          Quote: ccsr
          these leaders managed to create a second world economy

          And where is the country with this economy? And where is this economy?
        4. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 10: 52
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          And where is the country with this economy? And where is this economy?

          So if the great shipbuilders created a ship that they themselves had been managing for many years, and then the helm got to the unlucky captain who put it aground, then do you think those who built the ship are to blame? It’s not funny for you to interpret events like that?
        5. kalibr
          April 22 2020 14: 04
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          then the helm got to the unlucky captain

          What kind of society is this in which a clumsy captain is allowed to the helm of such a valuable ship?
        6. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 14: 13
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          What kind of society is this in which a clumsy captain is allowed to the helm of such a valuable ship?

          "Captain of the ship" in Soviet times was not defined by "passengers" - so temper accusatory ardor. By the way, even now "passengers" are not allowed to control and power - in any country in the world.
        7. kalibr
          April 22 2020 14: 15
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          "The captain of the ship" in Soviet times was not defined by "passengers"

          So there was a state of the whole people. Now they are not allowed to come to power, because capitalism. And we have something - "The people and the party are one!"
        8. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 14: 29
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          So it was a nation-wide state.

          You are a typical demagogue from the political education - I don’t think that you will surprise me with this, I have seen enough of such people at one time. The truth among them was their own elite - special propaganda in the political departments of the districts, but you obviously have not grown up to that.
        9. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 22 2020 14: 49
          -1
          Here we must remember about relatives, the words spoken earlier to another article
        10. kalibr
          April 22 2020 16: 09
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          but you obviously have not grown up to it

          Typically, such statements are based on comparison and juxtaposition. But you are an engineer, far from politics, you have not read my books on public opinion management on PR and advertising, so on the basis of what do you draw such a conclusion? Based on personal dislike? So this is a bad argument. I’m not sure that your propagandists have books on which students study both at home and abroad, and I have a lot of them. By the way, here in VO, though for a long time, I had articles on PR, you can find them through the profile and read. There are many interesting things. But the most important thing now is that we are talking with you in a friendly manner, and in the end we’ll disperse the number of comments to 450, and it will be just great!
        11. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 18: 00
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          But you are an engineer, far from politics,

          Actually, I was engaged in engineering activities many years ago, but this was not the crown of my career, because I had to solve problems on the scale of the armed forces, and this requires much more knowledge than party propagandists.
          Quote: kalibr
          But the most important thing now is that we are talking with you in a friendly manner, and in the end we’ll disperse the number of comments to 450, and it will be just great!

          You never answered whether you are a founder or not, so you are so worried about the number of comments. This is by and large indifferent to me, because tomorrow no one will remember what we discussed here. So what's "great" about that?
        12. kalibr
          April 22 2020 18: 13
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          You never answered whether you are the founder or not, that you are so worried about the number of comments

          If this interests you so much, then the direct question - the direct answer (unlike Green) - no. But the well-being of the site excites me, because I work with him. Or do you think that it should concern only its founders? This is not true. And besides ... you can bet with friends on the number of comments. For example, what for such a period of time there will be ... 100,300, 400 depending on the topic. I’ll tell you gambling and exciting action, like a tote on the races.
          "and this requires much more knowledge" - but specific, isn't it, just like in advertising and public opinion management. Everywhere has its own specificity and professionalism. Therefore, in order to compare something with something it is necessary to know very thoroughly.
        13. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 19: 20
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          But the well-being of the site excites me, because I work with him. Or do you think that it should concern only its founders?

          First of all, because altruism is not in fashion now.
          Quote: kalibr
          And besides ... you can bet with friends on the number of comments. For example, what for such a period of time there will be ... 100,300, 400 depending on the topic. I’ll tell you gambling and exciting action, like a tote on the races.

          You can immediately see that you did not study the course of probability theory and mathematical statistics, which is why you are still experiencing excitement - people with engineering thinking do not bother with such garbage.
          Quote: kalibr
          I’ll tell you gambling and exciting action, like a tote on the races.

          You remind me of Kisa Vorbyaninov - he, too, was an old-time gambler, but we must already think about the soul ...
        14. kalibr
          April 22 2020 19: 23
          +1
          Quote: ccsr
          You can immediately see that you did not study the course of probability theory and mathematical statistics, which is why you are still experiencing excitement - people with engineering thinking do not bother with such garbage.

          They don’t bother because they don’t know how to make an opinion. And people's opinions can be controlled in the same way as Chinese cars, but ... you just need to know which buttons to press.
          "but we must already think about the soul ..."I have no time to think about my soul, my wife has a pension of 7.800 rubles.
        15. ccsr
          ccsr April 22 2020 19: 37
          -1
          Quote: kalibr
          And people's opinions can be controlled in the same way as Chinese cars,

          You tried to control my opinion, but it seems like a bummer came out. So not everything is so rosy even in this isolated case, as you imagine it.
          Quote: kalibr
          I have no time to think about my soul, my wife has a pension of 7.800 p.

          I sympathize, but I do not understand how you travel to Europe with such a pension. And if you travel, then you don’t need to speculate on its size - I understand perfectly why you are using this technique.
        16. kalibr
          April 22 2020 21: 45
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          I sympathize, but I do not understand how you travel to Europe with such a pension. And if you travel, then you don’t need to speculate on its size - I understand perfectly why you are using this technique.

          To manage your opinion? Meaning? We have already collected all the clicks and comments. I won the bet: 450 comments in less than a week. And this is very decent money! And I am writing to you the truth, and you are all looking for some secret meaning. That's really ... a frightened crow is afraid of a bush. And I go and generally live for my own pleasure on fees and royalties. And you tell me about the insolvency ... Type my name on the Web and you will get so many books and articles ... You have to work and then everything will work out. And returning to the old - it would have turned out much more, if not for the "scoop". For example, even then I received royalties in dollars from socialist countries, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland - from 25 they took ... 20, and for 5 - checks in "Beryozka" in Moscow. Robbery is ...
        17. ccsr
          ccsr April 23 2020 11: 22
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          . I won the bet: 450 comments in less than a week.

          I would like to know what eccentric it occurred to make such a bet, especially for "decent money." Only I think you are using a different method of marketing - just lying about the supposedly existing bet.
          Quote: kalibr
          Type in my name on the web and you will get so many books and articles ..

          You are not interesting to me - at one time I spoke with people of a higher status in the scientific community, and therefore your bragging does not impress me.
          Quote: kalibr
          For example, even then I received royalties in dollars from socialist countries, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland - from 25 they took ... 20, and for 5 - checks in "Beryozka" in Moscow. Robbery is ...

          Well, I received monthly Western stamps - and what am I to shout about it at every corner? You become funny - reduce the pathos of your resentment. As the people say - "The lower the plebs, the higher the passion", and you seem to have become at this level in your effort to spit on the past.
        18. kalibr
          April 23 2020 13: 06
          -1
          Everyone has their own opinion about the past and their pathos, so you stay with your own, and I will stay with my own. Now the freedom of speech is what I want, but I am writing ...
        19. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 24 2020 01: 48
          0
          Quote: ccsr
          Quote: kalibr
          . I won the bet: 450 comments in less than a week.

          I would like to know what eccentric it occurred to make such a bet, especially for "decent money." Only I think you are using a different method of marketing - just lying about the supposedly existing bet.
          Quote: kalibr
          Type in my name on the web and you will get so many books and articles ..

          You are not interesting to me - at one time I spoke with people of a higher status in the scientific community, and therefore your bragging does not impress me.
          Quote: kalibr
          For example, even then I received royalties in dollars from socialist countries, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland - from 25 they took ... 20, and for 5 - checks in "Beryozka" in Moscow. Robbery is ...

          Well, I received monthly Western stamps - and what am I to shout about it at every corner? You become funny - reduce the pathos of your resentment. As the people say - "The lower the plebs, the higher the passion", and you seem to have become at this level in your effort to spit on the past.

          Cool comment! SIMPLY SUPER!
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 21 2020 07: 51
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    I already wrote to you that you do not know elementary things and here it is again.
    There were Stalin's ideas, but Khrushchev survived him, threw him out of the mausoleum and declared a personality cult. And no one lifted a finger. Everything on his truth ... done! Brezhnev was younger than Khrushchev. He sent him to retirement, buried the ideas of the economic councils and accused him of voluntarism. And everyone who got fucked from him during Khrushchev's time, did it together ... Then ... Then young Gorbachev declared Brezhnev's time an era of stagnation, and everyone who had something with him joined perestroika in the hope of getting even more. Remember, in any dispute, it is not the one who is right in essence that wins, but the one who is younger, because he outlives his opponent. As the saying goes, you will never see my grave, and I will still laugh, standing on yours! And the fact that someone finds something ... yes, it does. Picks up? Yes, and they do, too - yes, it happens. And they even get rich, sometimes, on the antiques trade. But antiques have never been a top priority in society. Young people don't really need broken pots or old ideas. Young girls need young guys, and young guys need lots of pretty and young girls and cool cars.

    Here are the comments from which you designed the words today as a quote from Green. An unexpected decision! Direct juggling and not the first time. Once you remade my words. It can be assumed that you also act at other times. Yes, not all readers can notice. They laughed coolly at Green ----- such as such. This is an argument ((sarcasm-ssssss))
  • kalibr
    April 21 2020 08: 37
    0
    Dmitry, this is a well-known technique that works without fail. I had a televised debate in Penza with the local commie starper. I have students to help, he has students. Well, it’s numbers ... Here in the USSR they built, launched, mowed, sowed .... Numbers, numbers ... which all normal people can do ... 30 seconds remain. to the end (hours in the studio). The last question ... I told him: you said a lot of numbers, but you don’t know an elementary thing ... He told me - what kind of thing do I not know? I told him: that the one who is younger wins in the dispute ... You will never see ... and I still laugh while standing on yours. TV gives our faces close-ups. Starper climbs with a shaking hand and drinks it. Students stomp wildly. The end of the ether. The next day, friends and strangers stop me on the streets: How did you / you cut it off. And there’s nothing to say. Haha Here is the reaction, Dmitry, of normal people. This is how public opinion is done.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 21 2020 09: 10
    0
    Alexander Green is a pensioner, just like you. The difference is a year or two ----- it's about nothing. And I’m younger than you, because my mother and my father are younger than you, a little.
  • kalibr
    April 21 2020 09: 48
    +1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    And I’m younger than you, because my mother and my father are younger than you, a little.

    Well, that means you and your ilk own the future. So try hard!
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 21 2020 18: 52
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    The last question ... I told him: you said a lot of numbers, but you don’t know an elementary thing ... He told me - what kind of thing do I not know? I told him: that the one who is younger wins in the dispute ... You will never see ... and I still laugh while standing on yours. TV gives our faces close-ups. Starper climbs with a shaking hand and drinks it.

    Firstly, you are a vile person, since you decided to defeat the old man in such rudeness, and secondly, you yourself are a longtime starter, and you earn a living by cheap publications, which once again proves that you are one of those who dreamed of wealth in capitalist Russia but ended up in a trough. Neither Abramovich, nor Ostap Bender came out of you, and this depresses you, judging by the emotions with which you spit on the Soviet past. What has it personally done to you? Can you specifically tell about your claims?
  • kalibr
    April 21 2020 20: 52
    0
    In politics, there is no meanness, remember this if you do not know. All means are good there. About the old man, yes. Therefore, I wrote to a reptilian that the future is in his hands. Don't you agree with that? And what's wrong with that? And everyone earns as he can. It's a shame not to work when you can work. And everyone cannot be Abramovich, this is also understandable. This should be taken calmly. What was bad in the past? It was a society of missed opportunities. I could tell you more, but is it worth it? We are not introduced to each other and I don’t know who you are. And to reveal your soul to ... anonymous? My book "Children of the Soviet Paradise" will come out, then maybe something will become clear for you.
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 22 2020 10: 20
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    In politics, there is no villainy; remember this if you do not know. There all means are good.

    You are not a politician, so do not stick to them, trying to justify your dastardly deeds.
    Quote: kalibr
    And what was bad in the past? It was a society of missed opportunities.

    This is a lie, and I can easily refute it, because I know a lot of people who in Soviet times achieved everything they wanted. It’s just that the country was different and the values ​​were different - you don’t want to see this point blank, trying to present modern Russia as a standard of equal opportunities.
    Quote: kalibr
    My book "Children of the Soviet Paradise" will come out, then maybe something will become clear for you.

    I can imagine what will be discussed there on the basis of your publications here, and for some reason it seems to me that the main purpose of this book will be an attempt to justify your current inconsistency by the presence of a "difficult" Soviet past. Do you really believe that someone prevented you from building your career and gaining respect from people?
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 10: 37
    0
    Sorry, I don’t know your name and patronymic, but you are trying to reason, write "it seems to me" (which is already good) so I don’t want to write to you ... but I will write that I am surprised by your misunderstanding and bias. Let's start in order: a politician is any person who publicly engages in politics. And not even publicly ...
    And I know a lot of people who achieved what they wanted. But both they and I could achieve much more if we were aware of a lot, right?
    And what kind of insolvency are you talking about? I live as I want, do what I want, earnings are limited only by physical capabilities. Every year I travel with my family to Europe ... And my career was hindered by soviet stupidity and quirks, I did not have to believe in all this ... it would be much better.
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 22 2020 11: 01
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    Sorry, I don’t know your name,

    Do not talk - it’s not interesting to anyone whether you know me or not, because I am a person of the same generation as you, and believe me you won’t spend on the chaff.
    Quote: kalibr
    Let's start in order: a politician is every person who publicly engages in politics. And not even publicly ..

    Reduce pathos and do not try to portray yourself as a politician.
    Quote: kalibr
    And I was prevented from pursuing a career by soviet stupidity and quirks, I did not have to believe in all this ... it would be much better.

    Lies, and I can easily refute this, but it is unlikely that my examples will convince you, and therefore I will not describe them in detail.
    Quote: kalibr
    Every year I travel with my family to Europe ...

    And this is your main achievement? I lived in Germany for five years, and I found the association, and therefore I look at all the delights of our tourists with a grin. You will live there first and try to achieve something, and then we will discuss your achievements.
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 11: 20
    +2
    I don’t bow, this is elementary politeness. On the chaff you have already been led, because our entire dialogue has only one goal - clicks that increase the advertising attractiveness of the site. With your help and Green's help, there are many more of them. Once again, a politician is any person who is involved in politics. By the way, the management of public opinion is also politics. And then for some reason you are pulling out only parts of my answer - this is for trips. And I wrote not only about them. And it's stupid to write "live there" ... I am quite happy to live here and relax there. By the way, in the same Germany I published 6 books and 4 in England. This is a good score among those who write them.
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 22 2020 11: 40
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    You have already been held on the chaff, because our entire dialogue has only one goal - clicks that increase the advertising attractiveness of the site.

    Are you the owner of the site and receive dividends? Glad I helped you earn a trip to Europe.
    Quote: kalibr
    Once again, a politician is any person who engages in politics.

    Lies, do not pretend to be that.
    Quote: kalibr
    By the way, in the same Germany I published 6 books and 4 in England.

    This does not mean anything - there is also a lot of waste paper being released there, and then unopened packs are sent for recycling.
    Quote: kalibr
    This is a good score among those who write them.

    I know a scientist who specializes in the biology of oceans and seas and has over 150 scientific papers (and maybe more, I don’t know for sure), and her books were commissioned by UNESCO or the state structures of some countries, so your books are unlikely to impress me whether they will produce, especially if they are created on the basis of newspapers of the 30-40s.
    But I am sincerely glad of your fertility - apparently this is a break-even process.
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 12: 49
    0
    Quote: ccsr
    This does not mean anything - there is also a lot of waste paper being released there, and then unopened packs are sent for recycling.

    About this it is customary to say so; "The grapes are green!"
    Again, no need to guess on the basis of what they are created. This is silly. Easier to open and see. I don’t draw to UNESCO, of course, but I received 4 grants from the Russian State Humanitarian University RAS for books. And given that I do not live in Moscow, but worked in a provincial university, and how difficult it is for the state to part with money, this is an excellent indicator. And now here are the e-books for author. today. But then again - don’t guess whether they are on the newspapers or not, but go in and see. They don’t take money for looking! And about politics, too, will be .... here is an interesting article.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 22 2020 12: 51
    0
    About clicks. Clicks - the equivalent of money. Interesting, what is the price of one click? I wrote to another article that different people treat the same amount differently. For some, it’s unattainable, but for someone unnoticed. And who for that small amount is ready to do the worst
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 22 2020 12: 40
    0
    Well yes! You should be proud of your bias when talking with me. And blame the opponent for bias which is not
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 12: 53
    +1
    Dmitry, you seem to me trying to prove something? No, first you have to go to college, and get a bachelor’s diploma. Then to the magistracy - a master’s diploma. Then, in graduate school, write and defend a dissertation, then at the age of 33 publish his first book. And then I may be talking to you as an equal ... almost. So far I’m only interested in getting you to clicks - the site needs them!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 24 2020 01: 57
    0
    I don’t need anything listed. I make good money without it.
    I’m interested in breeding clickers.
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 22 2020 13: 06
    +2
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Well yes! You should be proud of your bias when talking with me. And blame the opponent for bias which is not

    He has a star fever, it happens. Although some of his materials, as I suppose, are the fruit of an elementary copying of foreign articles with processing for Russian-speaking users, nevertheless it is also useful for those who are interested in us.
    As for clicks, I think that site traffic is more likely to be determined by the number of IPs, and not because how many times the same person has visited this site during the day. By the way, now many forums are faced with a banal lack of funds for their maintenance and their owners began to ask for financial support, since advertisers don't give them that much money. One of these was the appearance of the address of the "mastodon" in historical military sites - the owner of the "militer", a rather interesting portal from the point of view of discussing military history:
    http://militera.borda.ru/?1-15-0-00000079-000-0-0#000
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 13: 11
    +1
    Think less - know more. You should read my textbook for universities on PR and advertising: "Internet journalism and Internet advertising" (Infra-Engineering) there is everything about it.
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 22 2020 13: 27
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    ... You should read my textbook for universities on PR and advertising: "Internet journalism and Internet advertising"

    Thanks for the advice to think less, but it doesn’t interest me at all, because I received a Soviet technical education, and this implies just the fact that you have to constantly think with your own brains.
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 13: 35
    +1
    Technical education in the USSR is good. But you cannot be educated for life. Especially in what you were not taught in the USSR. A lot is changing. Even in technical education. You were probably taught to draw? And my tech students didn’t even know the words of the lecturers and they perceived my story about how to use it as a fairy tale. And let the advertisement not interest you. But you speak out on it, and give out incorrect information, that’s the thing.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 22 2020 13: 46
    -1
    I didn’t get Soviet and school, but there were some trainings and masters classes at work, I try to read the best authors on PR. It is interesting that a very good book on good white paper, color illustrations --- abundance has recently been published in Kiev! In Russian. In our stores for sale. The author of the book ------ in many countries is famous. That's how it happens. Today in Kiev ---- in Russian for Russians
  • kalibr
    April 22 2020 14: 07
    +1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    That's how it happens. Today in Kiev ---- in Russian for Russians

    Why be surprised, Dmitry? I have also published two books on PR and advertising in Germany and also in Russian ...
  • ccsr
    ccsr April 22 2020 14: 15
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    That's how it happens. Today in Kiev ---- in Russian for Russians

    As far as I know, even at Kiev University the textbooks on chemistry are still in Russian - it is not possible to translate the name of many terms into mov.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 22 2020 14: 43
    -1
    There are terms from psychology, rather. And received instantly, but --- the last
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 24 2020 02: 05
    -1
    How offended by the cons from Chinese cars.
    There were a lot of clicks from me. There will be no bet.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 24 2020 02: 31
    0
    Ay-ah-ah, in one day 3000 minus the managed Chinese cars. This is probably a preliminary conspiracy mentioned in the rules of the site.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 22 2020 12: 35
    -1
    The simplest thing is to recall the biographies published here on VO. There were NO missed opportunities
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 22 2020 12: 30
    -1
    Quote: ccsr
    Quote: kalibr
    The last question ... I told him: you said a lot of numbers, but you don’t know an elementary thing ... He told me - what kind of thing do I not know? I told him: that the one who is younger wins in the dispute ... You will never see ... and I still laugh while standing on yours. TV gives our faces close-ups. Starper climbs with a shaking hand and drinks it.

    Firstly, you are a vile person, since you decided to defeat the old man in such rudeness, and secondly, you yourself are a longtime starter, and you earn a living by cheap publications, which once again proves that you are one of those who dreamed of wealth in capitalist Russia but ended up in a trough. Neither Abramovich, nor Ostap Bender came out of you, and this depresses you, judging by the emotions with which you spit on the Soviet past. What has it personally done to you? Can you specifically tell about your claims?

    And about what the past Soviet did, it was written in other comments the other day ----- the relatives of the scoop did not do what they could, did little.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid April 20 2020 10: 07
    0
    Good day, ALEXANDER! You wonder how they allowed? And marvel at it for me! After all, there was recently a general conversation, where there were scoldings that relatives did little ...... And I am very respectful to those relatives, always, although they were not familiar to me.
    But only the chasss reached me --- it’s good that those relatives who did not do more! It is clear that everyone understood what and how.
    1. kalibr
      April 20 2020 11: 26
      0
      It has long been noticed, Dmitry, that something is wrong with your head. And now he was convinced of it once again.
      Quote: Reptiloid
      But only the chasss reached me --- it’s good that those relatives who did not do more! It is clear that everyone understood what and how.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid April 20 2020 11: 54
        0
        I always respect and praise your communist relatives, you are scoops to them. Who has a head
        1. kalibr
          April 20 2020 11: 56
          0
          Quote: Reptiloid
          I always respect and praise your communist relatives, you are scoops to them. Who has a head

          Oh, Dima, God forgive me. Even to say that I do not know ... Communist ... ha ha!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid April 21 2020 08: 00
            0
            As you wrote earlier, that your mother was holding documents "" with Stalin's signature in her hands, "she wrote her thesis using them, showed you ...
            And then you threw out the dissertation.
            But they didn’t think that maybe now she would be worth a lot of money. $$$$$$$$$ €€€€€€€€ could be worth it. I regret the disappearance of evidence of that time
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Reptiloid
            I always respect and praise your communist relatives, you are scoops to them. Who has a head

            Oh, Dima, God forgive me. Even to say that I do not know ... Communist ... ha ha!
            1. kalibr
              April 21 2020 08: 54
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              I regret the disappearance of evidence of that time

              I, too!
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid April 21 2020 10: 16
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Quote: Reptiloid
              I regret the disappearance of evidence of that time

              I, too!

              Is it long ????? Even last year, they praised this and disrespectfully called the dissertation disrespectfully.
            3. kalibr
              April 21 2020 10: 22
              0
              Quote: Reptiloid
              Is it long ????? Even last year, they praised this and disrespectfully called the dissertation disrespectfully.

              The dissertation and evidence of that time are different things.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ April 19 2020 16: 17
    +2
    A good analysis of the essence of such articles by this author. And he does not hide that for him personally the main thing is money. For what they pay, they will write.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid April 19 2020 23: 18
      0
      Quote: Aviator_
      ....... does not hide that for him personally the main thing is money. For what they pay, they will write.
      Eeeeeee no, I'm shy to say you did not understand wassat lol I’m embarrassed to say, but there above, he ran into me, demanded money for those studies, the statistics that other people have already carried out. I even guess why .. ......
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ April 20 2020 09: 42
        +2
        Like any former Marxist-Leninist, he spits out a little. He just let slip about money recently. And it clearly follows the "line of the party in power" (now - EP, formerly - KPSS). Qualification, even in historical works, on the C grade. Here he once had a note on the castles of Cyprus, an interesting beginning, so instead of a clear analysis of all historical events - the ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Venetians ... gave a couple of unrelated pieces with large time gaps and that's it. Purely literary he writes well, but in essence - what is, that is.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid April 20 2020 09: 56
          0
          Do you see what’s the matter, I still read books about the Ancient World, I try to make good authors. And here ----- I don’t have time. But --- there’s often talk about money, I don’t agree, —–––––––––––––– Earlier in the subway --- often. But for a long time I was not in the subway. Or like our deaf and dumb. They go --- to shove the person into the hands of what, the person did not manage to understand. And they already demand money with several hands, using their mutilation. Somehow cripples need to survive. In a cafe some services are imposed, it happens. ...
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ April 20 2020 10: 33
            +2
            Yes, it does. And the style of presentation reminds me of the style of the former head of the Union of Journalists of the USSR, I forgot my last name, like "Korytny", in general, on "th". Once in the USSR, I bought a brochure "The Main Kremlin of Russia" about the Moscow Kremlin. So this, if I may say so, the author, nowhere even gave a list of the towers of the Moscow Kremlin, not to mention their appearance and number. This "chief journalist" was also known for the fact that he somehow stuck a handwritten version of "The Quiet Don" that came to him, and returned it (presumably, not free of charge) after 30 years.
        2. kalibr
          April 20 2020 11: 31
          -2
          Quote: Aviator_
          Like any former Marxist-Leninist, he partly speaks out. He recently let slip about money himself.

          What a naive Sergei you are. Like a child, right. It is spoken ... yes, people like you are specially throwing the bait in the form of "talking" so that you continue to "denounce", experience sincere joy from your "accusations" and come here more often. Does it not occur to you that I could not write anything here at all? But then would there have been so many clicks and comments? The problem is that only smart people discuss hypotheses, mediocre ones discuss events, but stupid ones discuss people. And we work for the majority. And since that's what he likes ... for God's sake. Pyromaniacs, for example, enjoy looking at fire. Well, why don't they splash some petrol?
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ April 20 2020 14: 06
            +2
            Well, I confessed to provocation. Evno Azef how did you finish, recall? Badly finished.
            1. kalibr
              April 20 2020 14: 38
              -1
              Quote: Aviator_
              Well, I confessed to provocation. Evno Azef how did you finish, recall? Badly finished.

              All types of work have their own specifics. The specificity of online journalism is that people ... make clicks, which increases the investment attractiveness of such publications and allows them to exist. Accordingly, the smart is given one thing, the middle another, the stupid third. That's all. And we will end exactly the same with you, like everyone else ...
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ April 20 2020 14: 44
                +2
                And we will end exactly the same with you, like everyone else ...

                Different memory will remain, that's all.
                1. kalibr
                  April 20 2020 14: 50
                  -1
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  Different memory will remain, that's all.

                  Sergey, Sergey, well, do not make me think really bad about you. What memory? There is a principle of 90 + 1. Its essence: after 90 days, 80% of people have almost nothing left in their memory, and for 91 days they can also grind everything again, and in the same words. And after 180 days, after 365? 99% has a complete zero. In the best case, people remember their last name, but again what and how they don’t remember. That's why the best advertisement is a scandal.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid April 21 2020 08: 07
                    -1
                    And Sergei does not need cheap advertising! That's right, in general to his middle name. !!!! He occupies a respected place at a high level.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Icelord
    Icelord April 19 2020 18: 10
    -1
    Don’t you care? Here, personally, a man with a girl, with a boy, or a blue ram sleeps violetly for me. The main thing is to do your job well
    1. Icelord
      Icelord April 19 2020 18: 13
      -4
      This is for the green dreamer. So for clarity
  • Fat
    Fat April 19 2020 18: 47
    -2
    Quote: Alexander Green
    About the article and the author

    Our "whistle-blower" will not calm down, but, as always, it was enough only for a "storm in a glass."
    But, let us be indulgent towards him: what is the author - such and such topics. The author has a petty-bourgeois consciousness, and his themes are the same - shallow.

    You don’t even have to tear, but insert pictures from the 1933 Pravda newspaper, and bite or cynically coddle about the little things, like - “Cherry on the cake: the arrest of E. Telman” - a big mind is not necessary.

    True, the author touched on the “burning” today “historical-materialistic” issue - blurring the distinction between a woman and a man ...

    But this is bad luck: the CPSU fought for the equal rights of women and men, but our author did not understand this, and considered that "equality"And"blurring differences"Between a man and a woman is the same thing.

    But it is felt that Shpakovsky had been tormenting this issue for a long time, he was visible in the CPSU because of this, and now he is glad that this problem was successfully solved by bourgeois society, which really managed to remove the distinction between a woman and a man, and create a creature of the third kind -IT. Gay parades are proof of this.

    You know, Alexander. Your cue, I was reminded of an almost anecdotal incident from fishing stories. laughing
    "We are modestly sitting on the shore of a small lake, an old woman, the crucian carp and small carp bite perfectly, the sea of ​​adrenaline .... Well, someone will understand, just a thrill. Sometimes we use landing nets ....
    A minivan appears from it a solid frame in camouflage comes out, observes through binoculars the periodic battles with "real" fish.
    Well ... by the evening the bite has almost dried up ... "Camouflage" turns around to the driver and nods .... Something flies to the center of the reservoir. Pause .... Boo !!!! Everybody throws their gear. And camouflage ... suddenly declares in almost complete silence:
    - Guys! We continue to Catch fish ... NOW IT WILL BE MUCH ....
  • BREAKTHROUGH READY
    BREAKTHROUGH READY April 19 2020 13: 54
    +1
    Nearly a century has passed, and propaganda techniques have not changed much, like human nature.
    1. Fat
      Fat April 19 2020 17: 47
      +1
      Quote: BREAKTHROUGH READY
      Nearly a century has passed, and propaganda techniques have not changed much, like human nature.

      You simply never seriously took propaganda, as it seemed to me, ... The only thing that runs ahead of technology is propaganda. Propaganda - any item that you picked up ... A smartphone, a T-shirt, a box of matches ... A car, a gas price tag, a brand of toilet paper, a bill from the Housing Office ...
      The nature of people may not have changed ... But the methods of propaganda have changed dramatically
      1. kalibr
        April 20 2020 07: 47
        +1
        Quote: Thick
        But propaganda techniques have changed dramatically

        Ha! There have always been and will be smart people ... and I really like it!
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov April 19 2020 14: 39
    +4
    The history of the USSR cannot be studied from the propaganda articles of the Pravda newspaper due to the fact that they contain exclusively evaluative political judgments and ideologemes of vision from the standpoint of Marxism-Leninism. We do not study the history of the Second World War under the articles "Völkischer Beobachter". However, we are simply obliged to study historical MILESTONES and carefully read between the lines so as not to repeat the mistakes made long ago.
    In this regard, an article about poor Augusta Lutgens will be very entertaining.

    At first, he participated in the November 1918 revolution in Germany, where the Bolsheviks failed their first attempt to export the revolution. The Germans lacked their imperialists and they did not want to change them into communists and the dictatorship of the proletariat. The revolution was suppressed and August Lutgens was sent to hard labor. (Circled in green). In 1920, he fled with hard labor.
    Now, it's time to read between the lines. See where the red bird is?
    Through Denmark, he moved to Russia in Petrograd. According to official data, August Lutgens received political asylum, was able to work and get a skipper qualification, and met his future wife Lisa. Lisa Fiedler, a child from a working-class family in Hamburg, followed the call of skilled workers to help Russia with her parents and four other siblings and settled in Petrograd. Lisa and August were married in 1922, in the same year they had a son, Franz, and three years later, their daughter Elsa. In 1931 he returned to Germany without his family. Joined the KKE and became a high-ranking official in the Red Front (Roth Front), a German communist political and military organization in Hamburg. In this role, he was arrested.
    Further, what happened is described in the article.
    On a false charge, he, with a group of comrades, was sentenced to death. On August 1, convicts were beheaded in the courtyard of a district court on Max Brower Alley ...
    All of them were rehabilitated on December 29, 1992 ...

    However, once I was engaged in research regarding German Communists repressed in the USSR. I handed over all the materials to the customer, but today I asked to look in the database for something about a familiar name that seemed to me.
    So, in the database "Victims of political terror in the USSR"; An interesting document was found in the memory book of the Omsk region:
    Lutgens August (1895, Germany) German,
    education: literate,
    member of the German section of the RCP (b),
    Arrest: 1920.07.25
    Condemnation. 1920.12.20/XNUMX/XNUMX Omsk province.
    Comm. on charges of counter-revolutionary activity
    Sentence: to 10 years in prison.
    Reab. 2000.02.17, the prosecutor's office of the Omsk region.,
    basis: based on the Law of the Russian Federation.
    Archival business: (P-3585)

    Who is that full namesake? Then the coincidence of two rather key dates is confusing - the year of birth and the year of escape / arrival in the USSR and arrest.
    I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories, but it is possible that real August Lutgens disappeared in custody, and everything described in the official version took place with a completely different person... The Comintern was practically beheaded in 1937-38, and dissolved in 1943. The dissolution of the Comintern, in fact, was the demand of the Allies for the opening of a second front. The archives keep it secret to this day ...
    1. ccsr
      ccsr April 19 2020 17: 51
      +2
      Quote: A. Privalov
      I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories, but it is possible that the real August Lutgens disappeared in custody, and everything described in the official version happened to a completely different person ...

      At that time, some foreign citizens were recruited into the special services and then squeezed to Europe for illegal work, carefully developing legends for them. This was common practice in the NKVD and RU of the Red Army, which is why this person could have ended up in Germany, and already there, having come under suspicion of espionage, he appeared before the court.
  • Kushka
    Kushka April 19 2020 14: 39
    +2
    I had a chance to hear something (I’m not in the subject myself), that when forming
    text of the sentence of the Nuremberg Tribunal, international
    the community of lawyers failed to carry out a single paragraph with
    Nazi accusation of fascism - not in the charter,
    in the name of the party, the governing bodies of Hitler’s
    Germany, fascism was not mentioned and was not declared in any way.
    Those. such allegations were eventually withdrawn from the sentence.
    Maybe someone knows more about this?
    1. Octopus
      Octopus April 19 2020 16: 41
      +2
      Quote: Kushka
      the international community of lawyers failed to hold a single point accusing the Nazis of fascism

      The Nazis were accused of fascism only by Soviet newspapers. Fascism was no problem for anyone blame anyone in it would be strange.
      Quote: Kushka
      such allegations were eventually withdrawn from the sentence.

      Such accusations could not get into the protocol. It was completely out of time to quarrel with Franco and Salazar, without any problems up to his neck.

      Your concern about fascism is connected exclusively with sloppy use of the media, especially in connection with Ukrainian history. If you open even the Criminal Code, you will find out that the legislator considers rehabilitation a problem nazism (Article 354.1). About fascism there is not a word, yet.
  • Pacifist with AK
    Pacifist with AK April 19 2020 16: 59
    +1
    [quote = Sea Cat] But FIG knows him, but now you yourself will not go. And then, you see, it rains in Santiago, and we have a cloudless sky over the whole country. laughing
  • Operator