Military Review

Was Lenin a German spy?

407
Was Lenin a German spy?

Under the Soviet regime, the Bolsheviks tried to appropriate the “fatherhood” of the February revolution to themselves. The proletariat “acted as the hegemon and the main driving force of the February bourgeois-democratic revolution. He led the national movement against war and tsarism, led the peasantry, soldiers and sailors ... The leader of the proletariat was the Russian Social-Democratic Labor Party (Bolsheviks) headed by V.I. Lenin ”(The Great October Socialist Revolution. Encyclopedia. M., 1977).


This myth was picked up by the liberal public. They say that the Bolsheviks overthrew the tsar, destroyed the autocracy and destroyed the Russian empire. Currently, this myth is very popular, the liberals regularly demand that Lenin’s “bloody ghoul” be removed from the mausoleum, instead of the “ugly ziggurat” build a church, repent of the whole world for the murder of the royal family, the destruction of the churches and forget the “cursed Soviet past” that hinders the development of modern Russia, etc.

This myth solves two main problems. First, they diverted attention from the Westernizers, the degenerated aristocracy, the liberals and the “burzhuinov” - the fevralists, who in reality destroyed the autocracy and the “White Empire”. Secondly, it allows to complete the desovietization and de-Stalinization of Russia, consolidating the results of the liberal-bourgeois counterrevolution of the 1991-1993. and the redistribution of national wealth in favor of a small group of "new masters".

Thus, “Lenin and the Party” are allegedly to blame for everything. They destroyedhistorical Russia ”and turned Russia off its path, torn from Europe. At the same time, it was hushed up that the entire leadership of the Bolshevik party, an asset of the organization, including Lenin, Stalin, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Trotsky, etc., were in exile or in exile and in prisons. The fact that the Bolshevik party opposed the "imperialist war" and was actually defeated. That the Bolsheviks were small and unpopular in comparison with other parties, for example, constitutional democrats (cadets) and socialist revolutionaries (Socialist-Revolutionaries). The fact that Lenin believed that a revolution was impossible during his lifetime, and he learned about the coup in Russia from newspapers, like his other associates. That the liberal-bourgeois Provisional Government granted amnesty and freed many prominent revolutionaries from exile and prisons, enabling the Bolsheviks to begin subversive work against the new government.

The Bolshevik organizations were extremely few, but to the limit they were saturated with secret police agents (Security Department of the Police Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs). Before the revolution, a member of the Central Committee and the editor of Pravda M. Ye. Chernomazov, a member of the Central Committee and a member of the Bolshevik faction in the Fourth State Duma R. V. Malinovsky worked for the secret police. Interestingly, if the salary of the Director of the Police Department was equal to 7000 rubles. per year, the salary of Malinovsky 6000-8400 rub. in year. With the filing of Malinovsky, the secret police arrested Bukharin, Ordzhonikidze, Sverdlov and Stalin. The Council of Workers' Deputies formed after the February Revolution consisted of more than thirty informants of the secret police.

It is obvious that such a large apparatus of secret police agents and provocateurs would have been able in time to warn the government about the preparation of the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. And revolutionaries are easily defeated. The Mensheviks and Social Revolutionaries were in a similar position, although they had more activists and influence in society. However, with all their desire, they also could not produce the February revolution.

The February revolution was organized by the ruling elite of the Russian Empire itself. In this regard, February is unique. The industrial and financial (bourgeoisie), administrative, military and partially political “elite” itself crushed “historical Russia”. High-ranking Westerners, masons of high degrees of initiation, deputies, bankers and industrialists, generals and ministers spoke out against tsarism. All of them wanted to destroy the autocracy, to get full "freedom", that is, full power, without "despotic" restrictions.

In essence, Nicholas II was left all alone, short of a small circle of aged conservatives, dignitaries, female servants — army and police officers. True, most of the officers could have acted for the tsar, obeying the habit and oath, but Nikolai Aleksandrovich himself refused to resist, did not dare to take responsibility and shed blood.

Against the king and his wife were all, including the royal kin and mother-empress. Nicholas II did not allow his relatives to power, tightly controlled their lives, not allowing the slightest criticism of his wife and the "holy elder." Post grand dukes viewed by order of the king. In addition, the whole reign of Nikolai Alexandrovich, from the birth of an heir, lasted a dynastic crisis. The heir was seriously ill. It is obvious that Tsarevich Alexei could not rule in such a stormy and cruel XX century. The royal relatives did not doubt that Alexey would not rule. Then who will take the throne? The marriages of the great princes Mikhail Alexandrovich and Kirill Vladimirovich formally deprived them of the right to the throne. But it was not officially announced. A significant part of society did not understand the intricacies of the royal relationship. Nicholas II was afraid to raise this question. As a result, several great princes mentally tried on Monomakh's cap. In Russia, the tsarist conspiracy is tacitly formed.

Participants in the February coup pursued different, often opposite goals. Some representatives of the house of the Romanovs wanted to limit autocracy, remove Nicholas II, they tried on the crown for themselves. The members of the “general group” also wished to remove Nicholas II from the throne, which, in their opinion, he prevented him from bringing the war to the bitter end. The generals wanted an "iron hand" that would bring order to the rear. According to the generals and senior officers, Russia was threatened with chaos, and a “dictator” was necessary. The actual head of General Headquarters, General M. V. Alekseev, somehow actually demanded that the Tsar appoint a dictator, that is, a person responsible for supplying the army and given extraordinary powers. Nikolai was categorically against limiting his power.

Not surprisingly, the generals wanted the dismissal of Tsar Nicholas. Quartermaster-General M. S. Pustovoitenko spoke openly at the Stavka about the king: “Does he understand something of what is happening in the country? Does he believe at least one gloomy word of Mikhail Vasilyevich (Alekseev)? Isn't he afraid, therefore, of his daily reports, like a freak is afraid of a mirror? We point out to him the complete collapse of the army and the country in the rear with daily facts, without making special emphasis, we prove the correctness of our position, and at this time he thinks about what he heard in five minutes in the yard, and probably sends us to hell ... "

Two months before the February Revolution, Lieutenant-General A. M. Krymov in a private report to the Duma deputies on the situation at the front said: “The mood in the army is such that everyone will be happy to welcome the news of the coup. A coup is inevitable, and they feel it at the front ... There is no time to lose ... "

The military conspirators even had the idea of ​​seizing the tsar's train at the junction between Tsarskoye Selo and Petrograd, with the aim of forcing the tsar to sign a renunciation of the throne. The capture of the train was appointed several times, but all the time was transferred. The last time the operation was moved to 1 March 1917 of the year. The main reason for refusing the operation was the moral factor. The convoy could resist, would have to kill their own. Nicholas could refuse to sign the papers, which led to the scenario of the visit of the Guards officers to the bedroom of Paul I. The then officers lacked this determination. However, the conspirators, generals were ready to support a coup in the capital, and supported him! Nicholas was "tied hand and foot," they said that he had no support in the army and must agree with renunciation.

The bourgeoisie had money, power, but there was no real power. They wanted to destroy the autocracy, which, in their opinion, hindered Russia's economic development. They wanted the redistribution of property, the royal family had to share property. Russian masons and Westerners wanted to build a “sweet Europe” in Russia, they also wanted a “market”, “freedom” and “democracy”. The pro-Western and liberal intelligentsia hated "tsarism", "despotism", etc.

Why did the Western masons perpetrate the February revolution when Russia could have won the war? First, they decided that there would be no better moment. A revolutionary situation has been created, the most reliable and loyal authorities are removed from Petrograd, at the front, the king is cut off from the capital and cannot organize resistance. The second center of power, headed by Alexandra Fyodorovna, who assumed the functions of an autocrat, giving orders to military and civilian authorities, caused irritation of the Duma and society, did not have the corresponding authority.

The personnel of the guard units were sent to the front, and replaced by spare soldiers and officers of wartime, mostly yesterday's students and intellectuals. The battalions of recruits included teams of convalescents who told various horrors about the front line. Neither recruits nor convalescents under any view of the front wanted. The order of Nicholas II to alternately send personnel guards regiments from the front line to Tsarskoe Selo “to rest” was constantly sabotaged for various reasons. For example, in January 1917, the king demanded that the Chief of Staff, General V.N. Gurko urgently send a Guards Cavalry Division to Tsarskoye Selo, and Gurko, under the pretext of lack of space to accommodate the cavalry, sent to the royal residence only a battalion of Guards crew, who differed "moral instability.

Secondly, it is possible to establish a Western-type regime in Russia (a constitutional monarchy or a republic), which will triumph in the war with Germany, taking these laurels from the tsarist regime. And on the basis of this victory, with the support of the allies — Britain, France and the USA — to create in Russia a matrix of a Western-type society. Hope was that "the West will help us."

Fevralists seized power easily. Nikolay did not resist. All the pillars of autocracy were dismantled and destroyed even before the February coup, all the main persons knew their “roles” in this “staging”. It was not for nothing that the leader of the Bolsheviks, V. Lenin, noted: “This eight-day revolution was, if I may say so metaphorically,“ played out ”exactly after a dozen major and minor rehearsals; The “actors” knew each other, their roles, their places, their situation, up and down, through and through, to any significant shade of political directions and methods of action. ”

A large role in this "operation" was played by the masons. Masonic organizations in Russia had a clear political orientation. Their goal was the overthrow of autocracy. They put into practice the plans of the owners of the West, since the main conceptual and ideological centers of Freemasonry were located in Europe. The Masonic lodges were non-partisan and supra-party organizations, so they played the role of a link between the feudalist conspirators.

For example, in 1912, the “Supreme Council of the Peoples of Russia” was created in the strictest secrecy. His secretaries were A. F. Kerensky, M. N. Tereshchenko, and N. V. Nekrasov. The largest industrialist, banker and landowner Mikhail Tereshchenko in the first composition of the Provisional Government was the Minister of Finance, in the second - the fourth composition of the government was the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The cadet and Duma member Nikolai Nekrasov was first Minister of Communications of the Provisional Government, then Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister. A lawyer and a member of the Duma, Alexander Kerensky was the Minister of Justice, Minister of War and Navy, and the head of the Provisional Government.

According to Mason N. Berberova, the first part of the Provisional Government (March-April 1917) included ten "brothers" and one "layman" (Berberova N. N. People and Lodges. Russian Freemasons of the XXth Century). Freemasons called people “profanes” to them who formally did not enter the lodges. This "profane" in the first Provisional Government was the leader of the Cadets, P. N. Milyukov. According to Berber, the Freemasons formed the future Provisional Government headed by Prince Lvov in the 1915 year. In the last composition of the Provisional Government, in September-October 1917, when War Minister Verkhovsky left, everyone was freemasons except Kartashov. Thus, the masons controlled the Provisional Government.

By the beginning of 1917, the “Masonic group”, as the most organized in Russia, which included representatives of all other elite groups (grand dukes, aristocrats, generals, bankers, industrialists, members of the Duma and leaders of political parties, etc.), came to the conclusion that the military is unable to carry out a coup. Generals can only support him. Therefore, it was decided to organize "spontaneous popular speeches", the benefit of the "soil" was prepared, to push the crowd with the police, the Cossacks, to draw soldiers of rear, spare parts, etc. into the unrest.

Everything went like clockwork. The soldiers began to refuse to shoot at the crowd, opened fire on the police, gendarmes and Cossacks. The military command of the Petrograd region sabotaged the process of eliminating unrest in the initial stage, and then the focus of unrest was out of control. In the wake of chaos, power in Petrograd passed to the Provisional Government. Nicholas II 28 February 1917 left the headquarters in Mogilev and went to Petrograd. And right there, the “railroad version” worked, the general's top team worked out. The tsar's train was detained in Pskov, the tsar de facto became a prisoner of the commander of the Northern front, General N. V. Ruzsky, who was in collusion with the head of the State Duma, M. V. Rodzyanko. Meanwhile, Alekseev, the head of the Stavka, telegraphed the front and fleet commanders. All were unanimous in favor of the king’s abdication.

According to the memoirs of Baron Frederiks, who was present at the abdication of Nicholas II, known in the presentation of the Countess M. E. Kleinmichel, Ruzsky forced the hesitant king to sign a prepared abdication from the throne by brutal violence. Ruzsky held Nicholas II by the hand, with his other hand pressed to the table in front of him a prepared manifesto about renunciation and roughly repeated: “Sign, sign the same. Do not you see that you have nothing else to do. If you do not sign up, I am not responsible for your life. ” Nicholas II looked around confused and depressed during this scene. He had no choice but to renounce.

However, it was easy, almost bloodlessly seizing power, The Februaryists, instead of triumphant victory, caused the catastrophe of the Romanov empire and put Russian civilization on the brink of destruction. They lost. The masters of the West pursued their goals, destroying the Russian autocracy. For many Februaryists it was a terrible shock when "the West did not help."

Russia was falling apart before our eyes. The army did not want to fight. Sailors began to massively kill officers. Not for trying to save royal power. Only because of decades of accumulated hatred of the "gold miners," the landowners. These were already flashes of civil war, and without any Bolsheviks. In the summer of 1917, only individual parts and ships fleet retained relative combat effectiveness. The bulk of the troops and crews did not want to fight and practically did not obey the commanders, both old and appointed by the Provisional Government.

Temporarily, the government could not solve the root agrarian question for Russia. Liberal bourgeois ministers could not give the land to the peasants. They themselves came from landowners, large landowners. And it was not possible to send punitive detachments to the villages, as in 1905-1907, so that order could be brought to order with fire and iron. Parts that would have executed such an order was not. The troops in the mass consisted of peasants, and simply raised the officers who would give such an order to the bayonets. The only way out is to promise that the issue will be resolved when the Constituent Assembly is convened. As a result, in the spring and summer of 1917, peasant Russia flared up. Only in the European part of Russia, 2944 peasant uprisings occurred. The scope of the peasants' speeches was greater than during the uprising of Razin and Pugachev. The real peasant war began, it will continue during the Civil War, and will be one of the reasons for the defeat of the White movement. And the red ones will hardly put out the fire.

At the same time, the separatists will raise their heads. By October 1917, there were already dozens of “armies” and gangs of nationalists and separatists with hundreds of thousands of bayonets and sabers throughout Russia. Separatists will start their war in Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Crimea, the Baltic States, Bessarabia, the Caucasus and Turkestan. At the same time, separatism will manifest not only foreigners and non-Orthodox, but Russian Cossacks, "regionalists" in Siberia, etc. It is important that national separatists and Russian separatists claimed not only their "indigenous lands", but also vast areas, where lived other nations. For example, the Poles wanted to restore the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth from the Baltic to the Black Sea. Finnish nationalists wanted to include Karelia, the Kola Peninsula, the Arkhangelsk and Vologda regions into the “Great Finland”. Not only Poles, but Romanians as well claimed the Odessa region. That is, a bloody and widespread civil and national war became inevitable.

In addition, at the beginning of 1917, external forces did not abandon their plans to seize and dismember Russia. The German-Austrian, Turkish command did not give up plans to strike at the collapsed Russian army and the occupation of the Baltic states, Ukraine, Crimea, the Caucasus, the creation of pro-German Finland and Poland. Russia's “ally” on the Entente had plans to land and capture the Russian North, the Black Sea region, Siberia, and the Far East.

Thus, it was not the Bolsheviks who destroyed the Russian empire, although they afterwards tried to attribute this victory to themselves, but the “elite” of the Romanov empire itself.

Later, the myth of "Lenin - German spy" will be created. In the summer of 1917, the Russian counterintelligence declared Lenin and a number of prominent Bolsheviks German spies. Counterintelligence officers presented Ensign D.S. Ermolenko, who escaped from German captivity, who stated that he had been sent to Russia by officers of the German General Staff for anti-war agitation, and he was told that the same assignment had been given to Lenin and other Bolsheviks. The Provisional Government transmitted information about this to the press and at the same time ordered the arrest of Lenin and other Bolsheviks. Apparently, it was a provocation of Russian counterintelligence.

Later, documents will be discovered on the transfer of large sums by the Germans to the Bolsheviks through two channels - through Parvus and the Swiss socialist Karl Moore. But does it follow from this fact that Lenin was a German agent? The Allies gave huge loans to the Kerensky government, financially and financially supporting the armies of Denikin, Yudenich, Kolchak and Wrangel. It is known that the British sponsored the future Empress Catherine II, the British gold she was able to organize a palace coup, which led to the murder of her husband. In addition, the Bolsheviks from the very beginning opposed the autocracy and the "imperialist war." Unlike other political forces, they spoke directly about this.

It is obvious that Vladimir Lenin was a practical man and took the money, but was not an agent of Germany. He solved the problems of financing the party and the future revolution. And October, the Bolsheviks were able to organize only because February first occurred. Lenin sat in Geneva and was pessimistic that the current generation would not see the proletarian revolution. But wrong. Liberal-bourgeois, Masonic circles organized a revolution, overthrew the emperor and created a "window of opportunity". The Bolsheviks used it. Destroyed the Russian Empire and began a civil war in the country almost without their participation.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Dive On the causes of the death of the Romanov empire
On the causes of the death of the Romanov empire. H. 2
The last attempt to save the empire of the Romanovs
"The role of the ram penetrating the thickest German defense, we will get ..."
“The social revolution, in its most extreme manifestations, is inevitable with us”
"Stupidity or treason?"
External forces against the Russian Empire
"Russian democracy can realize its goals only through the complete crushing of tsarism and the dismemberment of Russia into small states"
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  1. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 30 November 2016 06: 03
    +22
    Thanks so much for the article.
    Information and truth should discourage the "white project".
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 09: 05
      +34
      Reptiloid Today, 06:03 AM New
      Thanks so much for the article.
      Information and truth should discourage the "white project".
      Wait, now the "monarchists" will come running along with the "white guards" and will try to explain on your fingers how wrong you are. That the "white project" is more alive than all the living, and that the Russian people are asleep and see how they are trying to put some ass *** from the Hohenzollern family on their neck, despite the fact that their support among the people tends to zero! Moreover, both of them have a split consciousness, they do not understand that monarchists and white guards are not the same thing at all! And when you try to explain to them that it was the white generals Alekseev, Kornilov and others who were at the head of the conspiracy against the "adored monarch" and none of them even thought about restoring the monarchy, they either start stupor or the initial stage of schizophrenia.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 09: 13
        +24
        Dear Diana, but the "red project", as practice shows, is absolutely unnecessary for our fellow citizens, especially the younger generation. No one wants to hang on his neck the yoke of equalization and total control of the "public" over the private life of a citizen.
        And I, for example, in contrast to the average "red" do not think that "the white army, the black baron is again preparing us a royal throne." Whites were not all monarchists, but whites were the ones who rose up against the usurpation of power by the Bolsheviks and the Bolshevik terror.
        1. Diana Ilyina
          Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 09: 32
          +36
          Well, what did I say ?! Here he is the first White Guard defect.

          Learn to write in Russian competently, for starters!
          Bolshevik
          Damn it!
          Dear Diana, but the "red project", as practice shows, is absolutely unnecessary for our fellow citizens, especially the younger generation.
          I would not be so optimistic if I were you, it is the younger generation that now has especially strong tendencies towards the restoration of the USSR. And this is by no means connected with nostalgia for the "red terror", but for social justice and a strong state that existed during the Soviet era.
          And your myths about leveling and stuff, it’s bullshit, who wanted to break free - pulled out, who wanted to earn - earned, there were conditions for this.
          The whites were not all monarchists, but the whites were those who rose against the usurpation of power by the Bolsheviks and Bolshevik terror.
          Well, yes, while carrying white terror and the occupation of the country by foreign invaders! "Good" guys were, you will not say anything! And most of your adored White Guard offspring, first fought against our volunteers in Spain, and then marched under the bravura German marches together with the Nazis, bringing "peace and freedom" to Russian land!

          It’s not disgusting to myself ?!
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 09: 45
            +22
            Oh, I look. Have you switched to insults again? lol I speak Russian very well, but you are directly distressed by the old Russian spelling of a regime so dear to your heart.
            Equalization is a myth? Prove it.
            As for the youth, you are wrong - I work with her and I see the young people's insistence, as they say "from the first rows."
            Speak about white terror, but forget about red again? Bela Kun, Rosalia Zemlyachka, Saenko - these are all innocent people in your understanding.
            And yes, and what did your volunteers forget in the internal Spanish confrontation? Why did they interfere in the affairs of another state?
            1. Rastas
              Rastas 30 November 2016 19: 16
              +14
              You see, Lieutenant, many sympathize with the White movement only for its image of such noble beautiful officers singing beautiful romances. But what kind of project did they have in Russia? what reform program? This is where the questions begin. The Reds had such a program - the idea of ​​building socialism, i.e. an idea aimed at the future. And they went to Spain to fight against the Nazis. It may be difficult for the philistine consciousness to imagine how to break loose and go to fight is not clear why, but in Spain inter-brigades from different countries fought for the Republic, fighting against fascism.
              1. CorvusCoraks
                CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 14: 58
                0
                Quote: Rastas
                It may be difficult for the philistine consciousness to imagine how to break it and go to fight is not clear for what, but in Russia brigades from different countries fought for whites, fighting against Bolshevism.

                And just change a few words)))
            2. Magua-xnumx
              Magua-xnumx 1 December 2016 00: 00
              +1
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Was Lenin a German spy?

              he is generally in switzerland, has not been tried and abroad in court
            3. murriou
              murriou 1 December 2016 08: 48
              +9
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              What did your volunteers forget in the internal Spanish confrontation? Why did they interfere in the affairs of another state?

              Really, why? repeat

              200 thousand regular army of Italians and 50 thousand Germans supported the fascist rebellion against the legitimate democratically elected government of Spain - this is normal for you.

              And the fact that the legitimate and democratically elected republican government called the USSR for help, and the USSR responded to this call - it is AWESOME!

              So, lieutenant? You, as always, do not hesitate to lie and denigrate the real story! laughing
              1. skeptical
                skeptical 29 March 2017 18: 57
                +1
                And what can he do? This is his style.
            4. invisibility
              invisibility April 7 2017 16: 53
              +2
              Equalization is a myth? Prove it.

              Look, on the Internet, information about the Stalinist artels. Almost all light industry was in the hands of "private traders". And not only light ... In the besieged Leningrad artels produced PPS ... Commercial shops, restaurants .. I hope it’s not a secret for you that the collective farmers bought planes and tanks during their war for their savings? Do you think this is possible during leveling?
          2. Andrey Zh
            Andrey Zh 30 November 2016 11: 59
            0
            ... I liked your phrase - "strong state" !!! Thanks!
          3. vlad_vlad
            vlad_vlad 30 November 2016 16: 12
            +11
            Diana Ilyina Today, 09:32 ↑
            Well, what did I say ?! Here he is the first White Guard defect.


            Diana, you are just lovely! as always, friendly and open to dialogue! And it’s hard (after drinking) to disagree with your logic:
            - Lenin took money
            - The country collapsed
            - destroyed the army
            - gave the front to the Germans

            -> but was not an agent. And why? Duc everything is simple - he did it not for money but purely "in love". There was an old anecdote on this topic - what is the difference between a prostitute and ...: one loves for money, the other - "for interest."
            1. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 16: 31
              +20
              vlad_vlad Today, 16:12 ↑
              Diana, you are just lovely!
              From your lips, this is more an insult than a compliment!
              it’s difficult to disagree with logic (after drinking):
              Look do not drink too much, alcohol is a poison especially in large quantities.
              - Lenin took money
              Where is the proof?!
              - The country collapsed
              She was ruined before him, but on the contrary he did not let her fall apart completely!
              - destroyed the army
              Again lying, the army collapsed Nicholas number 2 and his entourage!
              - gave the front to the Germans
              Again FALSE, in honor of which the holiday of February 23 was proclaimed ?!

              You vainly remembered about prostitutes, because you yourself look like them, being under the German flag!
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 30 November 2016 18: 20
                +3
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                Again FALSE, in honor of which the holiday of February 23 was proclaimed ?!

                In honor of the holiday Purimas on March 8th. But only in a different style. hi
              2. vlad_vlad
                vlad_vlad 30 November 2016 19: 27
                +8
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                vlad_vlad Today, 16:12 ↑
                Diana, you are just lovely!
                From your lips, this is more an insult than a compliment!
                ...
                You vainly remembered about prostitutes, because you yourself look like them, being under the German flag!


                that’s why you, the Communists, don’t get nichrome: the slogan is to shout, run over / blame / brand, etc. - UTB you are a master, but gently, with a soul, to approach or sip or convince - UTB in any way. not suitable for nature.
                And you don't need arguments / proofs. the goal in your dispute is not to search for truth and exchange arguments, but to confirm your own position and designate your opponent as "himself d.u.r ak".

                when will you calm down already? USSR, Cuba, North Korea - everything went into oblivion. the idea of ​​communism gave birth as a result of the ridiculous Zyuganov and Kim-Kim-Kim in 4 incarnations. And what do you call progress?

                As in that Jewish joke: "Izzy, everything."
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 1 December 2016 01: 07
                  +12
                  vlad_vlad Yesterday, 19:27 ↑ New
                  here therefore you communists nichrome and it doesn’t work out
                  Bravo !, "Brilliant" command of the Russian language ...
                  and the designation of the opponent as "himself d.u.r a k".
                  Do you have any doubts about this ?!

                  Captain mana, cat mana kills herself, wat even a note mana ostavil ... To begin with, learn to speak Russian correctly!
                  1. vlad_vlad
                    vlad_vlad 1 December 2016 02: 00
                    +2
                    Diana Ilyina Today, 01:07 ↑ New
                    vlad_vlad Yesterday, 19:27 ↑ New
                    that's why you, communists, do nichrome and it doesn't work out Bravo !, "Brilliant" command of the Russian language ...
                    and the designation of the opponent as "himself d.u.r a k". Do you have any doubts about this ?!
                    Captain mana, cat mana kills herself, wat even a note mana ostavil ... To begin with, learn to speak Russian correctly!



                    beauty! come on atu me! show what it means communist firmness and loyalty to ideals.

                    The absence of doubt is an integral sign of the Communists!

                    Uhhh, I already had a tear of tenderness - I remembered my youth and how they perled me from the Komsomol ...
                    1. CorvusCoraks
                      CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 15: 02
                      0
                      Uh, Vlad on the red Internet terror ran into it, hold on now, until the NKVD / KGB / Smersh have set you up)))
          4. kalibr
            kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 27
            +4
            Strange, I have been teaching students at the university since 1982, and all the changes in their mentality took place before my eyes. And now again, a bunch of students. And I did not get the impression that they want in the USSR. There is one (!) Who frankly calls himself a Stalinist and only helps me arouse interest in history based on documents. Moreover, the training itself shows them what to do, where to go, what to fear, what to focus on. So the new generation of people with higher education is definitely not for you. Moreover, they are here (not all, but many are present). Everyone has a nickname. They can refute me if that ...
          5. CorvusCoraks
            CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 14: 57
            0
            Quote: Diana Ilyina
            I would not be so optimistic if I were you, it is the younger generation that now has especially strong tendencies towards the restoration of the USSR. And this is by no means connected with nostalgia for the "red terror", but for social justice and a strong state that existed during the Soviet era.

            Only the romantic part of the young generation, which does not understand that returning to the USSR, without the same red terror will not be real.
            Quote: Diana Ilyina
            And most of your adored White Guard offspring, first fought against our volunteers in Spain, and then marched under the bravura German marches together with the Nazis, bringing "peace and freedom" to Russian land!

            This is just the principle the enemy of my enemy, they would unite with any forces that helped them to overthrow the power (and do not think that it is not justified, by that time too much blood had already been shed and hostility was laid).
        2. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 09: 42
          +18
          dear Lieutenant Teterin, you apparently did not live under the USSR! there was no leveling, if only in the fables of the liberals! people who are not mediocre swearing. benefits (builders, turners, tractor drivers, combine operators) received good salaries, the plan was fulfilled, it was overfulfilled, and you still get it! But "office plankton", as they call it now, was received at tariffs that they did not produce!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 30 November 2016 10: 05
            +17
            Billing ----- Mobile phones, Internet, navigators, video cameras everywhere, here and there photocopy your passport ..... databases of different organizations. There is no secret of deposits. Courts ------ everything is online for everyone ...... Such a control under the USSR could not be dreamed of. And it is in all countries and everyone puts up with it. ....
            And here is Hohenzollern? There was an article about windsor. That's !!!!!!!
            The white project will lead to the dismemberment of the Russian Federation and a new civil war. One must understand this without options. Tear off at least a bit. At least a little. And there one by one.
            1. Lieutenant Teterin
              Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 10: 34
              +18
              Forgive me, but the red project, with its ideas of social discord, the search for "bourgeois" and "enemies of the people", is much more likely to lead the country to the brink of civil war.
              1. murriou
                murriou 1 December 2016 08: 54
                +5
                You are about 100 years behind real history, lieutenant! laughing

                During this time, the "red project" managed to create a superpower, in record time to turn a backward agrarian country into an industrial leader, to win the greatest war in the history of mankind. - and you are still stuck in a civil war crying
                1. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 5 December 2016 09: 41
                  +4
                  And where is this superpower now? Protected by Soviet citizens?
                  1. murriou
                    murriou 5 December 2016 10: 18
                    +4
                    You would wonder where the Russian empire "which you lost" is when the Russian people threw it into the trash.
                    1. CorvusCoraks
                      CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 15: 05
                      0
                      in the same place as the union thrown out by the Russian people and also with considerable assistance from abroad by different forces, countries, ways.
            2. ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH
              ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH 30 November 2016 10: 43
              +11
              Quote: Reptiloid
              The white project will lead to the dismemberment of the Russian Federation and a new civil war.

              The "Red" project led to the dismemberment of Russia and a 5-year civil war. White, or rather the "Russian Project" is "Russia is great, united and indivisible!" slogan of the Russian Army.
              1. Diana Ilyina
                Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 10: 47
                +26
                "Russia is great, united and indivisible!" -the slogan of the Russian Army.
                Another victim of the exam ?!
                Under this slogan, they divided the country between the British, French, Americans, white-covers, Japanese, Germans and Austrians!
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 30 November 2016 11: 12
                +8
                Quote: ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH
                "Russia is great, united and indivisible!" -the slogan of the Russian Army.

                The army itself was not "one and indivisible." Compare a Cossack with a bean. The latter had to be hired by the former. And the blood was shed in the same way.
                1. murriou
                  murriou 1 December 2016 08: 56
                  +3
                  "Russian army" - this is the performance of different * talents * white is so called, or what? With its class division? With the massacres of the civilian population? With its full content among the invaders? lol
              3. Andrey Zh
                Andrey Zh 30 November 2016 12: 01
                +6
                The white movement was not united !!! Alas...
              4. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 30 November 2016 14: 58
                +11
                Quote: ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH
                White, or rather "Russian Project" is "Great Russia, united and indivisible!" -the slogan of the Russian Army.

                Yeah ... especially good at One and Indivisible fits one of the leaders of the white movement - Ataman Krasnov with his independent territory of the Don Army - from Taganrog to Tsaritsyn. smile
              5. Rastas
                Rastas 30 November 2016 19: 25
                +7
                Oh, Alexey Vladimirovich, remember how many of these whites who fought "for the united and indivisible" in 41 glorified Hitler's "liberation" campaign, how many of them served the Nazis in the security corps in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. Patriots, damn it.
              6. free
                free 3 March 2017 22: 23
                +1
                nonsense of Alexey Vladimirovich
            3. kalibr
              kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 29
              +2
              Dmitry, do not tear anyone off. What for? A smart person will make sure that you yourself give everything back and say thank you. Well, how much can you write that 80% of people (both here in the USA and Zimbabwe) are not smart ... they just are differently stupid!
          2. marline
            marline 30 November 2016 12: 22
            +9
            Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers ...
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            dear PoruchikTeterin, you probably did not live under the USSR! There wasn’t any equalization, if only in the fables of the liberals!

            Dear Murzik, you apparently did not live under the USSR, because leveling was there.
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            people directly producing mat. good wages received good salaries, fulfilled the plan - get, exceeded ...

            And we will change the plan for you, well, maybe we’ll give you another badge - that was the case in Soviet times. It was unprofitable to work well, because the working people worked before lunch, and from the beginning they started to troit ... some started in the morning, but this is no longer possible, so they were fired.
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            still get it! but "office plankton", as they call it now, was received at tariffs that were not produced!

            ... and also scientists and engineers, i.e. all those people who had to work with their heads received a salary of 150p. on hands.
            Since they didn’t produce anything, then why are you proud of their mental work - Soviet technology and science?
            1. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 14: 33
              +14
              In the Soviet Union they knew how to value specialists in their fields. Highly skilled workers, turners, locksmiths, equipment adjusters received substantial salaries, which consisted of the initial rate and bonuses for qualification (discharge system). Moreover, the salaries of plant directors could not be higher than the salaries of the highest paid workers of these enterprises. In the early 1980s, the salaries of “top” specialists were 500-1000 rubles. If we add to this a variety of benefits, the possibility of sanatorium-resort treatment, priority in the queue for housing and other bonuses, then it can be argued that the life of highly skilled workers in the USSR was very acceptable, and the salaries were comparable in amounts to the salaries of the scientific nomenclature - professors universities and directors of scientific institutes.

              Source: Who in the Soviet Union earned the most
              © Russian Seven russian7.ru
              1. marline
                marline 30 November 2016 15: 38
                +4
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                At the beginning of the 1980, the salaries of the “top” specialists were 500-1000 rubles .... and the salaries were comparable in amounts to the salaries of the scientific nomenclature — university professors and directors of scientific institutes

                More likely academicians.
                About the fact that everything is smooth on pieces of paper, you treat the lieutenant there. But cases from our own engineering practice indicate that when the plan was overfulfilled, the workers simply recounted the norms — any engineer of those times would explain this to you on the fingers, for which simple Soviet workers did not like our factory engineers.
                I know very well about such salaries: who worked at two or three jobs, could raise 1200 per month for various labor, although it was possible to get the deadline for this.
            2. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 14: 34
              +14
              The salary was quite adequate. For example: Engineer-110-130 rubles. The doctor received 100-150. Nurse-80-130. Car mechanic - 80-300 rubles, depending on the category. Builder (assembler) -200-400, slinger-180-300. The tower crane driver is 200-350 rubles, the driver of the C-100 category is 180 rubles (not counting the "kalym"). More or less like this. For 1 ruble you could buy a loaf of bread, a carton of milk, 300 grams of boiled sausage, 200 grams of cheese. For 3 rubles, you could buy, you could buy 3 cakes with cream. Or a bottle of vodka, adding 62 kopecks. For 5 rubles, you could buy 1 kg. meat (tenderloin) and 1kg. butter. For 10 rubles, you could easily live a week. And only 100 ... A family of three could live on it for a month (if you don't drink alcohol and don't smoke. Based on the level of current salaries, now, in order to live, approximately as in those years, the average salary, now, comparing those prices, and prices in our time, should be no less than seventy to eighty thousand rubles, and that is only because food products, such as color televisions or cars, were expensive, relative to current prices. But ... you could enlist somewhere north for a couple of years, and earn both for a cooperative apartment or house, and for a car
              1. marline
                marline 30 November 2016 15: 53
                +5
                On the ruble and the school does not go))))
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                More or less like this. At 1 ruble you could buy a loaf of bread, a package of milk, 300 grams of cooked sausage, 200 grams of cheese. On 3 ruble, one could buy it was possible to buy 3 cake with cream. Or a bottle of vodka, adding 62 pennies. At 5 rubles, it was possible to buy 1 kg. meat (tenderloin) and 1kg. butter. At 10 rubles, you could live quietly a week

                Nice prices, and nothing more. As it was with Raikin: "We are respected people ... You cannot live without a deficit, otherwise there will be no respect"
                Well, i.e. margarine or say sprat in tomato was ... Stale cakes ...
                But cutting meat - this is for you to the market - it is necessary to explain that there the prices were significantly different?
                You'd better tell the lieutenant what it means: "the goods were thrown away in a nearby store"))) and what kind of storm it caused in the Soviet institution.
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 09: 28
                  +4
                  merlin, here you are again fantasizing, you could buy meat in the market in Omsk for 3 rubles with no big deal! Yes, you had to stand in the queues in the shops, but unlike today, everything was natural without chemistry! and now for the discount line!
                  1. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 09: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    meat in our Omsk market could be bought for 3 rubles with not much calmly!

                    Cheaper in the market than in the store ?! belay
                    Yeah, so blatantly lying - you're done !!!
                    1. murriou
                      murriou 1 December 2016 10: 00
                      +3
                      Quote: merlin
                      Cheaper in the market than in the store ?!

                      What are you reading? lol
                      In my market, as far as I remember, meat cost 3-3.50, in the store 2,00-2.20. The difference is about one and a half times, so those who felt extra money in their pocket took it in the market, the rest preferred a store, albeit with a queue.
                      Quote: merlin
                      so blatantly lying - you're done!

                      This is you well done, so brazenly juggle. Your opponent wrote about the cost of 1 kg of meat + 1 kg of butter. Yes, it was more than just meat, but in the market.
                      1. marline
                        marline 1 December 2016 10: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: murriou
                        The difference is about one and a half times, so those who felt extra money in their pocket took it in the market, the rest preferred a store, albeit with a queue.

                        Just like everywhere else)
                        Quote: merlin
                        This is you well done, so brazenly juggle. Your opponent wrote about the cost of 1 kg of meat + 1 kg of butter. Yes, it was more than just meat, but in the market.

                        Then it turns out that a kilogram of oil was more expensive than a kilogram of meat, yes, I did not take this into account. Sorry.
                    2. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 10: 23
                      +4
                      merlin, let's check this statement, starting from the numbers of statistics, and not from the stories and myths. For this we take the average salary in the RSFSR of 1985, equal to 199,2 rubles per month. Let us take at Rosstat the average price of meat (average market-state) equal to 1,89 rubles. per kg! How much meat can be bought for the average salary in the USSR ...
                      burckina-faso.livejournal.com So which of us is lying lol you are a clear liar! laughing
                      1. marline
                        marline 1 December 2016 10: 50
                        +2
                        Quote: Uncle Murzik
                        To do this, take the average salary in the RSFSR 1985 of the year, equal to 199,2 rubles per month.

                        Average salary 200r.? belay But what about the workers who, according to your previous words, received everything in full on 400, and some before 1000? And say I'm a liar wink
                        Quote: Uncle Murzik
                        Let us take at Rosstat the average price of meat (average market-state) equal to 1,89 rubles. per kg! How much meat can be bought for the average salary in the USSR ...

                        So then in the store 2 rub. per kg pork requested in the market from 3 to 4 rub. About this and murriou wrote. You wrote that in your store along with 5 oil rub., And in the market 3 rub. (just like crayfish lol ) Now you have 1 rupee 98 kopecks. And I, with some fright, a liar?
                        Pretty little business, to lie, and then blame others for this ??? Cool!!!
                        And if you write about the 85th, then a bottle of "andropovka" cost 4,70, not 3,60))))
                      2. Uncle Murzik
                        Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 12: 09
                        +3
                        merlin but why are you banning me, mister liar, the hat is on fire on the "thief"! so I am writing to you again in Omsk you could buy meat with a little 3 rubles, depending on how you bargain! but it’s just a comrade who didn’t get equalization. it was, as you work and get it! and 1.98 per kg of meat is the state store price! so let's burn about the equalization "mister sovramshi" lol
                2. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 2 December 2016 14: 00
                  +1
                  Just the clipping that Uncle Murzik is talking about is the same 5 rubles. in the market and cost.
              2. murriou
                murriou 1 December 2016 08: 59
                +5
                I was a better student in the USSR than during the Gaidar "reforms." Under shit, for the first time in my life I saw what deep malnutrition and scurvy are.
                1. marline
                  marline 1 December 2016 09: 16
                  +5
                  Quote: murriou
                  I was a better student in the USSR than during the Gaidar "reforms." Under shit, for the first time in my life I saw what deep malnutrition and scurvy are.

                  Yes, that's just all of your "shit-bucks" - former Komsomol members and party workers.
                  How did such “good” people appear in such a “wonderful” party, because the party is mind, honor and conscience? Here, they all managed to call me "leberast" every 5 times, but nobody wants to answer such a simple question, because there is nothing)))
                  1. murriou
                    murriou 1 December 2016 10: 03
                    +6
                    Quote: merlin
                    all of your "dermokrats" are former Komsomol organizers and party workers.

                    Suppose, but not all party workers and Komsomol members have become shit democrats.
                    Have you ever heard of logic? wink

                    If a handful of traitors were found in the army, and the army was betrayed by them, this does not mean that the whole army was bad.
                    This means that out of the kindness of the excess and the naivety of the traitors, they regretted it, did not strangle it on time.
                    I hope this error will be taken into account and corrected in time.
                    1. marline
                      marline 1 December 2016 10: 25
                      +4
                      Quote: murriou
                      Have you ever heard of logic? wink

                      And you?
                      Quote: murriou
                      If a handful of traitors were found in the army, and the army was betrayed by them, this does not mean that the whole army was bad.

                      This means that the counterintelligence has screwed up. But you again avoided the question, explain to me why frankly "poorly" competent or "incompetent" people, or even worse, according to you, "traitors" generally achieved power in the USSR - after all, there was a party selection? Why did your "not all party workers and Komsomol members" drop out? If they were just "incompetent people" you can still understand, there are enough fools, but if "traitors" - then the whole system was - frankly ... - since this has become possible at all.
                      1. murriou
                        murriou 1 December 2016 12: 36
                        +5
                        The system gave a serious malfunction beginning with Khrushchev, which brought nomenclature officials out of the control of law enforcement agencies and made them practically beyond the jurisdiction.

                        After this went the accumulation of rot and increase their influence.
                        In the end, they were tired of pretending, and they openly took all power into their own hands.
                        Yes, counterintelligence screwed up.
                        Yes, the army and the country fell victim to betrayal.
                        Yes, the system did not initially provide for betrayal and failed to destroy it.

                        But this is not a reason to equate the whole country, the whole party, with traitors.
                        How do you understand the reception?
              3. Hapfri
                Hapfri 4 December 2016 01: 20
                0
                . For 5 rubles, you could buy 1 kg. meat (tenderloin) and 1 kg. butter
                If this item was commercially available
                1. veteran66
                  veteran66 4 December 2016 08: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Hupfri
                  If this item was commercially available

                  and that’s not enough, oil at 2.20r, and tenderloin more than 3.50r. And why is it considered cheap? My parents (a family of four) could not afford a clipping every month, although they did not live in poverty.
            3. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 14: 52
              +8
              merlin, I just grabbed a little, and I know that badges were given and bonuses for fulfilling and overfulfilling the plan! So don't lie! "The salary was 55-60% of the entire salary of a Soviet engineer. That is, if your salary was 120 rubles , then you received 180-190 rubles in your hands.This is exactly what I had in 1988, when I worked in the factory design bureau, where my salary was 156 rubles, and I received from 180 to 260 rubles a month. By the way, we didn’t have equalization. Some leveling was at the level of salaries, but everything that was in excess of the salaries was taking into account the usefulness of the employee. Therefore, a bored girl-technologist immediately after university received, for example, much less than me: a young, active inventor and rationalizer or other valuable specialist in the design bureau. "On salaries in the USSR |
              red-sovet.su ›Red Tips
              1. marline
                marline 30 November 2016 16: 15
                +5
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                That is exactly what I had in the year 1988, when I worked in a factory bureau, where I had a salary of 156 rubles, and I received from 180 to 260 rubles. per month.

                That's right, the average salary was 150 in 70's, in 88 it was possible to get 200. Now compare with the workers that you brought above.
                As it sounds in one famous movie that we watch every new year: "Doctors and teachers are the most needed professions! - Judging by our salaries, this is not so."
                And there was also about "a typical Raketa cinema, where you can watch a typical feature film," do you understand the hint?
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 07: 21
                  +2
                  merlin so who’s the storyteller from us, I’ve brought you facts, and you’re just verbal diarrhea! you started to level off the engineers and now went down to the doctors! the doctors also had a rate like there were hours and surcharges! you tell your fables to those who did not live in the USSR, you yourself unwittingly confirm that there were no equalizers wassat
                  1. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 08: 40
                    +4
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    you started that the engineers had egalitarianism and now you have rolled down to the doctors!

                    Dear Murzik, I wrote that leveling was. Or you forgot your pioneer childhood. As for salaries, the salaries of different engineers, at different enterprises and among workers as a whole were the same.
                    The digits that you brought in life have not met.
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    the doctors also had a rate, like there were hours, and surcharges! you tell your fables to those who did not live in the USSR,

                    Are you talking about justice in the USSR? why do people who studied for five or six years, then went through residency receive less carpenter according to your own documents?
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    you yourself involuntarily confirm that there were no equalizers wassat

                    Equalization happens not only in salaries, Murzik. And don’t mess around. If you selectively answered one of my three messages, it only means that you have nothing to say about the other two.
                    1. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 09: 17
                      +2
                      merlin "That's right, the average salary was 150 in the 70s, in 88 you could get 200." you didn't write it! Become funny!
                      1. marline
                        marline 1 December 2016 09: 22
                        +2
                        Quote: Uncle Murzik
                        merlin "That's right, the average salary was 150 in the 70s, in 88 you could get 200." you didn't write it! Become funny!

                        On average, 200 in 80's and 150 in 70's are not equalization?) Are you funny))) Again, ignore uncomfortable questions ...
                      2. Uncle Murzik
                        Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 10: 26
                        0
                        merlin, you were fantasizing again, I have already poked you with a valuable meat! I will repeat again The salary was 55-60% of the entire salary of a Soviet engineer. That is, if your salary was 120 rubles, then you received 180-190 rubles. This is exactly what I had in 1988, when I worked in a factory design bureau, where my salary was 156 rubles, and I received from 180 to 260 rubles. per month. And, by the way, we had no leveling. Some leveling was at the level of salaries, but everything above salaries was based on the employee's usefulness. Therefore, a bored girl-technologist immediately after university received, for example, much less than me: a young, active inventor and rationalizer or another valuable specialist in the design bureau. "!
              2. veteran66
                veteran66 4 December 2016 08: 52
                0
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                less than me: a young, active inventor and innovator or other valuable specialist in KB

                if this "active inventor and rationalizer" knew about his real income from patents for inventions in a normal country in comparison with handouts of 10-50 re for ratsuhi and progressives, he would understand how cruelly he was ... cheated. And then, do not confuse "boxes" with civilian research institutes, of which there were many times more, and the salaries there were less.
            4. jPilot
              jPilot 30 November 2016 21: 01
              +7
              And now about leveling, oddly enough, howling and singing "war songs" about it are those who had the opportunity to shovel loot (steal), namely, officials who are now doing just this without a twinge of conscience and insolently doing it, laughing at simple workers, which, by the way, are still injecting like "dad Carlo" only for even less money, barely making ends meet.
              About work before lunch, you too are lying brazenly, of course, there wasn’t such a phenomenon, but this is enough now and not just enough, but it’s more than enough. I am generally silent about the village, because I drank too much.
              Yes, you can write a lot and the "storyteller" is you merlin
              I do not argue much was not right and had to be changed.
              Only now, interesting transformations have taken place, what was good with the USSR, almost all of the FSUs ... and, they left all the worst and took the worst from the Americans and Europeans.
              And I am also enraged by liberals like you who do not want to notice historical facts (at least in this article, because it is not at all about equalization) confirmed by documents, and translating arrows on other topics.
              And yet (to everyone at once) about the "red (supposedly) terror" nooka tell me disrespectful liberals (both young and old), when they try to destroy you, how will you resist, probably by persuasion not to do so and exhortations ... ... I'm going to fight for a better life and kill enemies ...
              I have the honor soldier
              1. marline
                marline 1 December 2016 08: 46
                +2
                Quote: jPilot
                ... on simple hard workers, who, by the way, are still working hard like "dad Carlo" only for even less money, barely making ends meet ... About work until lunchtime, you are also insolently lying, there was of course such a phenomenon, but this is enough and now it is not just enough, but it is overlapping with excess. I generally keep quiet about the village, because I got drunk.

                If you have forgotten how "simple hard workers" worked hard in Soviet times, you can watch a good Soviet film "Afonya" - ponastalgic.
                There is nothing to answer for everything else. How much did you plow at the plant in Soviet times, pilot?
                1. jPilot
                  jPilot 1 December 2016 11: 26
                  +5
                  "Buddy", besides the fact that I am a military pilot, after graduating from vocational school, I have a specialty: a roller operator for cold and hot rolling mills and work experience in the specialty 3,5 years of hot work experience, and when I quit due to admission to the Military School, the shop management I was upset because she expected to send me to our institute according to my profile.
                  And I will repeat again: DO NOT SING MILITARY "SONGS", eka how you brought the whole COUNTRY under Athos, you are a scoundrel and a nag.
                  1. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 11: 59
                    +3
                    Quote: jPilot
                    "Buddy"

                    I’m with you, "roller pilot" did not drink vodka, so that you poke me
                    Quote: jPilot
                    And I will repeat again: DO NOT SING MILITARY "SONGS", eka how you brought the whole COUNTRY under Athos, you are a scoundrel and a nag.

                    Athos is a type of that time. If you have not seen this, then the USSR has not seen. So pick up the squirrel.
                    1. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 14: 29
                      +4
                      merlin you don’t hysteria as a young student student, you are the only one who has not stuck your lie with your nose! you only know about the USSR from the movie "Afonya"!
                      1. marline
                        marline 1 December 2016 17: 58
                        +3
                        Quote: Uncle Murzik
                        merlin you don’t hysteria as a young student student, you are the only one who has not stuck your lie with your nose! you only know about the USSR from the movie "Afonya"!

                        Uncle, firstly, you don’t poke me, and secondly, it seems that you started to lie, I corrected you, and you began to ineptly make excuses)))
                        And all why - the language of the bone, do not know how to express their thoughts correctly. And after such comments, there are generally big doubts that you are not just a snotty schoolboy who decided to pretend to be a big uncle)
                    2. jPilot
                      jPilot 6 December 2016 22: 32
                      0
                      Ooooo yes you are "my friend" "tram boor", "Buddy" does not mean switching to you, look at the text below, unlike you, but the transition to insults is the last argument of tu.pi.ts.
                      Initially, I wanted to answer a lot of insults, but at the last moment I decided not to stoop to your level.
                      "Afonya" is not YOUR type of that time !?
                      But I will gladly smear the bloody nozzles for YOU, it's a pity you cowardly hid behind a faceless nickname, if you live in Moscow on a question we can cross, talk "hu from hu" but I think YOU are cowardly !!!!!!
                2. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 2 December 2016 14: 18
                  +3
                  Why make people laugh? You don't know much about the film "Afonya". Afonya was the only one in the ZhEK team.
                  The rest were conscientious workers. Remember the movie better.
                  1. veteran66
                    veteran66 2 December 2016 15: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: Tula gingerbread
                    Just in the ZhEK team, Afonya was so unique.

                    any person is one of a kind, but everything is relative to work (except for the one that Athos proposed to kick out), remember the meeting, who was asleep, who was in a hurry to hurt football, but on the whole, everybody had this meeting, including the chairman.
              2. veteran66
                veteran66 4 December 2016 13: 08
                +1
                Quote: jPilot
                I’ll fight for a better life and kill enemies ......

                as well as their family members, loved ones, all suspicious, as well as potentially suspicious. So what is this terror good for in defending yourself? Only embitter the people. By the way, the Bolshevik women did not like the expression “I have the honor” either, to put it mildly.
            5. CorvusCoraks
              CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 15: 10
              0
              I confirm that my maternal grandfather could have worked at a university for 120-150 rubles, but decided to earn money, went to a factory where under 300 it was even higher. True, due to the harmfulness of production, Pts died. early, until death after a stroke, he was paralyzed for several years, again due to the harmfulness of production (metallurgical plant).
          3. veteran66
            veteran66 30 November 2016 20: 13
            +2
            Quote: Uncle Murzik
            people directly producing mat. benefits (builders, turners, tractor drivers, combine harvesters) received good salaries, the plan was fulfilled, the plan was overfulfilled and the plan was still paid!

            nonsense, I worked as a turner, there was a salary bar, more precisely - the range from and to and not a dime more, rationing officers kept this rule, with all the proletarian hatred. In our porch of the nine-story building there lived both the deputy director of the technical school and military pensioners (mainly pilots) and miners - people who made good money, but also the grocery store loader and the cleaning lady who lived. Isn't this egalitarianism?
            1. Uncle Murzik
              Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 09: 22
              +3
              veteran66 what level from 150 to 400 rubles completed the plan receive, exceeded yet receive and where is the leveling! but that is, technicals had to live in a barracks, she’s not a person in your opinion! well, I would save up money and buy a cooperative! wassat
              1. marline
                marline 1 December 2016 09: 32
                +3
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                exceeded ...

                Dear Murzik, do you understand Russian?
                2 (two !!!) people have already told you that in reality, when the plan was exceeded, the norms changed !!! It was unprofitable to work well - one FIG will pay 150-200, even though you are drunk, even work hard from dawn to dawn. I understand that the answer to this question is not in your training manual, but write something new in the end!
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 10: 11
                  +2
                  hi Yes, I do not care what the liberals write! And you look at the pros and you have already written three that you are lying! lol
                  1. veteran66
                    veteran66 1 December 2016 10: 48
                    +3
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    Yes, I do not care what the liberals write

                    I do not know who the liberals are, but I worked as a turner at a factory for two years. A year on a salary, a year on a deal and with all responsibility I declare to you that, for example, if I was given an assignment for 100 pivots at 70 kopecks, and I did 150 of them, this does not mean that I will automatically be given not 70 re, but 105. The rationer will come and increase the processing rate, and then, when no one sees, the team led by the hill will tumble for me, somewhere in the locker room, so that because of the "Stakhanovite" at the machine without smoking breaks, I will not stand. That is why in the USSR "some pretended to be paid, while others pretended to work"
                    1. marline
                      marline 1 December 2016 11: 45
                      +3
                      Quote: veteran66
                      The normalizer will come and increase the processing rate, and then, when no one sees, the team led by the hill will tumble into my locker room, so that because of the "Stakhanovite" I will not stand at the machine without smoke breaks.

                      I once nearly fell in. When he was an engineer, the director called to his office and gave the task to persuade workers to work overtime, of course, for bonuses. Well, I young, of course, agreed. He persuaded the workers, they did the work, they got bonus rubles for 200 for their brother ... Then a rationer came, and they gave them 15 rubles. premiums. Naturally, they all told me what they think of me.
                      Only to our "unwanted Murziks" - it's all like peas against the wall ...
                      1. Uncle Murzik
                        Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 12: 11
                        0
                        merlin that Gozmon's training manual has already ended, as well as verbal diarrhea! You have good sources of the comedy "Afonya" lol
                      2. veteran66
                        veteran66 1 December 2016 13: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: merlin
                        Naturally, they told me everything

                        cheaply got off)))) could break)))
                  2. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 11: 36
                    +2
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    and you look at the pluses and three of you have already written that you are lying! lol

                    Well, if they use the same manuals as yours, what can they still write?)))
                    Here the working man supports me and this is enough for me.
              2. veteran66
                veteran66 1 December 2016 10: 32
                +3
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                Yes, I would buy a cooperative!

                it would be necessary to join the cooperative, in that country of deficit. And they paid a little money to buy. The difference between the salary of a loader and a first-class pilot in the USSR is about 1 / 4,8, while in countries with a normal economy it is at least 1/20 (and the loader is a qualified "logistician" or "loader operator" there)
                Quote: Uncle Murzik
                bar from 150 to 400 rubles

                You do not distort the facts, I'm not talking about the difference between the ranks. If the turner of the second category received 120 re, then as he did not get out more than this bar, he did not jump, well, only the master can throw the progressive into the progressive.
                1. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 11: 39
                  0
                  veteran66 How much the turner earned in the USSR. | Blog Old ...
                  cont.ws ›post / 232457! read, everything is on the facts, not your nonsense! if you had a bad life I would go to the north; my uncle left for BAM for three years, the cooperative bought and a car from the market!
                  1. veteran66
                    veteran66 1 December 2016 13: 52
                    0
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    would go north

                    yeah, that's how the whole country took and rushed north
                  2. veteran66
                    veteran66 1 December 2016 18: 29
                    +1
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    read, all on the facts, not your nonsense

                    Unlike you, I earned money, and I did not read blogs, and I know the rate of a second-class turner not from books, but from my own "tabulka", damn it, but you don't even know a word like that.
                2. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 11: 46
                  +1
                  here you are distorting. You can’t measure your salary, only in cash. In the USSR there were also public consumption funds, this is free education, medicine and housing. Receiving after the institute in 1973 105 rubles. in 1980, with a salary of 120, I EARNED in a room, three years later on a two-room apartment, at seven years old a child, a three-room apartment! What were the salaries in the USSR?
                  faq.tokarevs.ru ›page / kakie-byli-zarplaty-v-sssr
                  1. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 12: 27
                    0
                    Either you are in the 88th after the institute, then in the 73th ... Everything is clear with you, confused in the testimony.
                    1. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 12: 35
                      +1
                      merlin old man is an excerpt from the links that I give you, you probably do not even read them in your meager mind! belay Gozman does not order? lol
                      1. marline
                        marline 1 December 2016 12: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Uncle Murzik
                        merlin old man is an excerpt from the links that I give you, you probably do not even read them in your meager mind! belay Gozman does not order? lol

                        Your links do not open, because they are broken and insert them with crooked hands)
                      2. Uncle Murzik
                        Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 12: 46
                        +1
                        merlin how everything is neglected at you "mister sovramshi", you become even funnier! belay Well, I think veteran66 opened and was blown away! lol
                  2. veteran66
                    veteran66 1 December 2016 13: 53
                    +1
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    I EARNED to the room,

                    in general, housing was not for sale in the USSR
                    1. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 14: 12
                      +2
                      veteran66 Well, there was no unemployment in the USSR, there was a sea in the north! in the USSR there was a fair wage, whoever wanted to earn it! hi Now certainly fair, the postman receives 10 thousand. rubles, and 95 million rubles, which was received for work in 2014 by the Director General of FSUE Russian Post Dmitry Strashnov

                      Details: https://regnum.ru/news/society/2210874.html
                    2. Uncle Murzik
                      Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 14: 22
                      +1
                      veteran66 surrenders you did not live in the USSR! belay and there were private houses, and how were they sold? what are you talking about! "In 1948, citizens were given the right to own one residential building on 1-2 floors with 1-5 rooms, with a total area of ​​not more than 60 m2. Occurring in the 30-40s of the XX century. the transformations in the sphere of legal regulation of housing relations were legally completed in the Civil Code of the RSFSR of 1964 in the fullest form. In the Civil Code of the RSFSR of 1964 only two rights of citizens to housing were provided for: personal property in individual residential buildings and rental of premises. Standards on the rental of housing have been highlighted in a separate chapter. The basis for the conclusion of a tenancy agreement was still called the warrant, which was issued to citizens in an administrative order. In the early 80's. XX century Housing legislation was codified, in particular, the LCD of the RSFSR (1983) was adopted, which is still in force. [Text written in December 2003 - S.K.] In accordance with the RSFSR RC, premises and houses may belong to the state (state housing fund), collective farms and other cooperative organizations (public housing fund), housing and construction cooperatives (housing fund -building cooperatives), citizens (individual housing stock). ”Soviet housing: annoying restrictions or freedom?
                      maxpark.com ›Blog› content / 5080759in this article, and all the myths of the liberals are broken!
                    3. murriou
                      murriou 1 December 2016 14: 59
                      +3
                      1. Nevertheless, EARNING public housing was quite possible. Good workers, even out of turn, were given apartments to tie to the enterprise. At one time, it was possible to earn a janitor for an apartment - from 3 to 5 years of continuous work, it was worth it.

                      2. You are not in the know. In the USSR there were housing cooperatives. Dvushka in them cost about 5 thousand rubles., The contribution was feasible even for not the highest paid posts. Well, not without a queue for entry, of course, but still there was an opportunity.

                      Plus, sometimes their MLCs were organized at wealthy enterprises.

                      3. Private houses and land were sold quite normally.
                      1. justas-xnumx
                        justas-xnumx 1 December 2016 17: 33
                        +2
                        In the late 80s, in our village, a plot of 15 acres cost from 15 to 30 thousand (depending on the quality of the buildings), a "clean" plot cost from 3,5 to 5 thousand, plus an interest-free loan from an enterprise to build a house in the amount of 75 thousand with installments for 10-15 years. At the birth of a child, the loan was repaid and it was possible to take another loan in the amount of up to 150 thousand (up to 100 thousand - interest-free, over - at 1% per annum with interest accrued three (!!!) years after receiving the loan. third, etc.) child - the loan was repaid!
                    4. Tula gingerbread
                      Tula gingerbread 2 December 2016 14: 28
                      +2
                      And the house is housing? So the houses were for sale. Moreover, private houses were not only in the village, but also in cities. Take a trip to Tula, there are still almost in the center of the city private houses, pre-war and post-war buildings and quite solid. And it was possible to build. I don’t know how to arrange it, but that the father of my classmate built a house in the city for 4 rooms, plus an attic, I know that. This is the mid seventies.
                      Another example, the elder brother of another classmate of mine, bought a house after fishing for 3 years in Murmansk.
                      1. veteran66
                        veteran66 2 December 2016 15: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Tula gingerbread
                        bought a house after fishing for 3 years in Murmansk.

                        it was possible to buy or build, but why the bar in terms of meters and the number of rooms. And if a person wanted to build more? And nifiga, superfluous destroyed, all under one comb. These are the egalitarianism.
                3. Uncle Murzik
                  Uncle Murzik 1 December 2016 11: 55
                  +2
                  vetera For another snack, the dissident professor Zinoviev is truly unknown to you! one of the interviews asked him: “What was your professorial salary in the Soviet Union?”. “Equivalent to 500 US dollars,” A. Zinoviev answered. This was enough for the brisk American journalist to write right there: "The Soviet professor receives less than the American ordinary." Attempts by A. Zinoviev to explain the incorrectness of such a comparison due to different prices for basic products and the availability of different areas of social life (free medicine, education, an almost free apartment) were in vain. The western inhabitant needed "fried" information that did not suffer from truthfulness. “I lived a better $ 500 in the USSR than an American general, not like a soldier!” A word about Alexander Zinoviev :: NoNaMe
                  nnm.me ›NoNaMe› News ›... -ob-aleksandre-zinoveve
                  1. veteran66
                    veteran66 2 December 2016 15: 46
                    +1
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    the dissident professor Zinoviev is truly unknown to you!

                    no, unknown, I somehow know little about dissidents.
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    Attempts by A. Zinoviev to explain the incorrectness of such a comparison

                    the comparison is certainly incorrect, especially in the context of prices, but ... this money still needed to be bought, of course, professor, Moscow .. this is understandable, but what about the average layman in the city of Muhsransk? The shortage of everything and everything, queues, trips to the regional or regional center was a holiday, I am silent about the capital.
                    Quote: Uncle Murzik
                    I lived better than the American general,

                    it is unlikely )))
                    The quality of life of an American soldier was better than that of a professor.
              3. Hapfri
                Hapfri 4 December 2016 01: 11
                +1
                get, overfulfilled still get and where is the leveling!

                You generally do not know the social political economy. As a rule, there was no direct proportion, piecework was disapproved, there was a premium - a certain percentage, quarterly and thirteenth.
            2. justas-xnumx
              justas-xnumx 1 December 2016 17: 25
              +3
              Don't la-la! I worked as a turner in a mine construction department (there was such an organization in the Min. Color Met.), Had the second category of salary for piecework reached 330 (three hundred thirty) rubles "clean" (if there were night shifts, and on average - 260 , on time it came out much less - 160 - 180 rubles. Later, he worked in a collective farm as a turner, it came out about 220 rubles. Father worked as a miner (tunneller-blaster) when the plan was overfulfilled, his salary reached 750 rubles, while the head of the department received 610 By the way, the head of the GSHSU was one of two official Soviet millionaires who lived in our village - both earned their millions during the War, and no one "dispossessed" them, they were highly respected people in the village.
              1. veteran66
                veteran66 1 December 2016 18: 40
                +1
                Quote: justas-914
                had the second category of salary by piece-rate reached 330

                it is in what year and in what region ??? And for a turner of the second category such a salary, I very much doubt it. 4-5 grade, it is quite possible, but it did not reach the bar. I completely agree about the collective farm and the time-out. We had a leader, they closed him 450-500, but every other time he would unfasten half of his salary in a "voluntary" order, either to the peace fund or to the red cross.
                1. justas-xnumx
                  justas-xnumx 1 December 2016 19: 15
                  +3
                  East Kazakhstan region, Glubochanskoe mine construction department, "Svinetsshakhtostroy" trust, Ministry of non-ferrous metallurgy of the Kazakh SSR, 1982-83 and 1987-88. From 1986 to 1987 he worked in the collective farms of the Bryansk region, 89-90 years - at a sugar factory as a driver, salary of about 190 re, then school, then the fleet, but that's a completely different story :)
                  1. veteran66
                    veteran66 2 December 2016 16: 41
                    +1
                    Quote: justas-914
                    East Kazakhstan region, Glubochanskoe mine-construction department, "Svinetsshakhtostroy" trust

                    with premiums for harmfulness and district coefficient? Then I believe, but this is a completely different story.
                    1. justas-xnumx
                      justas-xnumx 2 December 2016 22: 03
                      +2
                      The turners weren’t supposed to be harmful, they gave milk, and the district coefficient was paid on time, in the piecework they weren’t paid.
                      1. veteran66
                        veteran66 3 December 2016 20: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: justas-914
                        in the area - did not pay

                        your lie, the district coefficient is paid to all employees, according to any wage system. You are either disingenuous or did not know about the inclusion of RK in your salary in the coefficient. I agree about milk, I got it myself.
        3. avt
          avt 30 November 2016 11: 39
          +18
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Nobody wants to hang the yoke of egalitarianism and total control of the "public" over the private life of a citizen.

          laughing Yes, the total control of the USSR is NOTHING compared to what is happening now in the world! Yes, such opportunities, in the presence of smartphones and computers with their Facebook, did not even dream of the Cheka-NKVD-OGPU-MGB-KGB. ", so learn materiel and how the lessons of socialism in the USSR were learned in the same Norway, Sweden and La France with .... Germany, by the way, look for and find HOW they aligned the social part of their life AFTER they were frightened by" equalization " THE USSR.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          And I, for example, in contrast to the average "red" do not think that "the white army, the black baron is again preparing us a royal throne."

          laughing Already the campaign progress is that Russia is not Romanov’s fiefdom laughing Is the patient on the way to recovery? Well, time will tell, when it recognizes that Russia AT ALL WHOSE IS NOT A MILLIMETER, NOT A GRAM, it began to be recovered. Well, now with regards to the article. Of course Lenin / Ulyanov was not any “German spy.” He was a revolutionary IDEAL! For ideological people deeply in the phalos who gives money for the implementation of their ideas. Such people easily take money for the revolution and easily part with them. In the end, Lenin outplayed the Kaiser's Germany, that's the whole thing, with a sealed carriage and money for moving, with Brest peace and payments on it in gold - like all one as a result of the World Revolution, we will come and take it. Only after working out the top of the CPSU, which had lost faith in its own propagandized ideology and converted into cash nishtyaks, did we manage to overthrow the USSR.
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          but the whites were those who rose against the usurpation of power by the Bolsheviks and the Bolshevik terror.

          So all in the end was decided by the people who massively followed the Bolsheviks, and having tasted the white terror to the fullest, and if they had won, and even the same drug addict Kolchak, they would have shed blood and blood - the experience was richest. Look for WHAT the same white-haters and the same Kolchakites did. We wouldn’t create, there wouldn’t be such a partisan movement, which as a result destroyed it naturally with the Red Army.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 12: 48
            +10
            My dear, I never said anything about the estate of the Romanovs - these are your fantasies.
            Did the people follow the Reds? Not all, but many of those who went, did it under the bayonets of the Cheka and after taking hostages from among the families.
            1. Fitter65
              Fitter65 30 November 2016 14: 10
              +9
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              My dear, I never said anything about the estate of the Romanovs - these are your fantasies.
              Did the people follow the Reds? Not all, but many of those who went, did it under the bayonets of the Cheka and after taking hostages from among the families.

              What are you talking about? Then it turns out "democracy" we began to build at the muzzles of Yeltsin's tanks and the muzzles of the atomats. 1993, it seems, was not mistaken. It was then that they fired at parliament from tanks? Again in 1905, Nikolai II shot the Bloody people, and the punitive detachments across the country to suppress unrest sent. So what is the answer is hello.
              1. veteran66
                veteran66 2 December 2016 16: 44
                0
                Quote: Fitter65
                What are you talking about? Then it turns out "democracy", we began to build at gunpoint

                and you don’t distort, many military experts precisely for this reason served at the Reds, about the Chinese mercenaries at the service of the Reds we have already discussed, and how many lost people who believed in the Reds' fairy tales were. So far from all the Reds fought for the idea
            2. parusnik
              parusnik 30 November 2016 14: 28
              +12
              Lieutenant Teterin
              Not all, but many of those who went, did it under the bayonets of the Cheka and after taking hostages from among the families
              .
              The number of the Red Army by 1920 was 4 people .. It turns out that at least 424 million people were held hostage .. These millions still need to be protected .. that is, during the years of the Grajadn war, no one worked, others were held hostage, others were guarded ..
              1. Hapfri
                Hapfri 4 December 2016 11: 44
                0
                That is, during the years of the Civil War, no one worked, they fought, others were hostages, and others guarded ..

                That is how things were
                1. murriou
                  murriou 4 December 2016 13: 33
                  0
                  You, Hapfrey, as always, *rich fantasy* laughing
            3. avt
              avt 30 November 2016 15: 30
              +6
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              , I never said anything about the estate of the Romanovs - these are your fantasies.

              Encore for a close reading
              Quote: avt
              Well, time will tell when it recognizes that Russia AT ALL, NO ONE'S CAUSE A MILLIMETER, NO GRAM, it began to be recovered.

              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Not all, but many of those who went, did it under the bayonets of the Cheka and after taking hostages from among the families

              laughing Did you ever hold a weapon in your hands? Or just images of Mikhalkov about the attack on the citadel of Germans with sticks in their hands buggy? wassat It must be quite well fool to believe in this Svanidzemlechenskomikhalkovskoe, like the Cheka takes hostages, issues weapons and they fight for the Reds. So, at best, Makhno was staffed with deserters and “greens”. And in fact, a classic of the genre from Sholokhov, well, when the Cossacks rushed to the Reds, AGrishka chopped up the sailors intoxicated.
            4. jPilot
              jPilot 30 November 2016 21: 07
              +2
              My friend, since you did not find the USSR (YOU wrote about this above), therefore, you are young and green. My advice to you, well, do not read the yellow liberal press at night, and even more so do not listen to the "Rain" paid (de FACTO) USA. Read the real story with real facts and documents.
            5. murriou
              murriou 1 December 2016 10: 14
              +3
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Did the people follow the Reds? Far from all

              Enough simple majority wink

              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              many of those who went did so under the bayonets of the Cheka and after taking hostages from among the families.

              Nonsense.
              You assiduously repeated, but not a bit more truthful from this.
              Of course, you cannot in any way admit that the majority of Russian people fought for Soviet power of their own free will and in the Civil and Patriotic War.
              Therefore, all the time lying about the bayonets of the Cheka and the detachments with machine guns - which, by the way, really were at the "noble Russian officers" in WWI, and not at the commissars later.
              But the truth will not cease to be from your evil cramps.

              How do you imagine it? In the battalion of WWI there are 1000 people, in the regiment there are 4 thousand people. How many Cheka bayonets are needed to control thousands of armed people? Not less than a comparable amount. And what is the use of such forced fighters? Yes, they would rather either go prisoner to the enemy, or turn their bayonets in the opposite direction.
              And how can one be with families - and then you can figure it out: all the families of all fighters are physically unrealistic to control.

              And in the Second World War, people went to certain death for their homeland. for Stalin - out of fear for their own skin people do not go for a feat.
              1. Hapfri
                Hapfri 4 December 2016 11: 48
                0
                ... How many Cheka bayonets are needed to control thousands of armed people? Not less than a comparable amount.

                It’s enough to shoot every tenth.
                Besides, where did you get 4000 each to the Civilian Regiment? It was so much in the divisions
                1. murriou
                  murriou 4 December 2016 13: 36
                  0
                  This is the staffing for the RIA in WWI.
                  Yes, states were not respected during the Civil War. But in any case, to control the army in a civil war, a considerable number of people are needed, comparable to the size of the army itself - therefore, a forceful decision that you imagined is completely unreasonable and not really possible.
          2. veteran66
            veteran66 1 December 2016 10: 53
            +1
            Quote: avt
            Yes, the total control "of the USSR is NOTHING compared to what is happening now in the world

            about the methods and coverage of population control, with a slight exaggeration, you can agree, but the result is important, not the process. When you are dictated at the level of state power what you can listen to, what to wear, what to talk about, how to cut your hair and what to read ... I'm sorry, such a state is.
        4. Fitter65
          Fitter65 30 November 2016 14: 05
          +13
          And when was the leveling in the red project? Well, during the civil war, it may have been like that. But for example, in the 20s the best workers were encouraged with food rations, there by manufacturing. Workers and peasants, the foremost workers were encouraged in the 30s, with vouchers to sanatoriums, different tourist trips, a cash bonus, or even a car. Even in the 50s there was a rhyme about "Equalization", I literally don't remember, but the meaning of "Victory" is a collective farmer / worker (well, the best worker) in the Volga there is a master / engineer / an artist, in ZIM - an academician, etc. And what is now in a society of EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES (well, not uranilovka) encouraging people who are better? I'm not talking about bribe-takers and other thieves, but about those who work. This is not surprising, but it turns out that we also have such people. So whoever there izh grain growers were given a ticket to a sanatorium as an award, by the way, how many specialized sanatoriums for workers, let's say, villages? Some of the workers of the open-hearth shop received for their work a car as a reward? .. Therefore, do not talk about what you wax (a vegetable that is bitter than a radish) you know or have no idea at all.
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 30 November 2016 20: 23
            +2
            Quote: Fitter65
            Even in the 50s there was a rhyme about "Equalization", Literally I do not remember, but the meaning of "Victory" is a collective farmer / worker (well, the best worker) in the Volga there is a master / engineer / artist, in ZIM - an academician, etc.

            and how many were there? We had two of them in the region, the whole mine plowed on one, and the factory on the other. They have the best workers in the brigade, the best equipment, the best orders or development with a richer layer. And the rest? The rest of the salary is not more than 350 re.
            1. Fitter65
              Fitter65 1 December 2016 12: 28
              +1
              Well, to begin with, during the time of the Union, the salary was 350 rubles, even in the Far East it was considered good. But now the hard workers get so much that they somehow make ends meet. But we live in a democratic state.
              Yes, not many people were rewarded with machines. And on the account of the fact that the mine and the factory plowed on them ... you tell someone else. If there was a piece-rate payment, the people worked hard. And when you sit on the tariff, so what’s the strain on my 135 So I’m getting it. So that the leading technicians were given a new technique, this is the normal approach of a sober-minded leader, if he exceeded the norm on an old dump truck, he brought profit to the state and the enterprise, then he will bring more on a new one. And I’ll give some new equipment to someone who grinds it into I’ll kill a month. An example? Please. Once my brother-in-law worked on a bus in Novosibirsk PATP-1, for working normally he received a new bus and the route was better paid. The same thing happened in the Abrashinsky quarry. A new KrAZ arrived in 80g. they gave what do you think? Yes, everything is right for those who worked better. Although there the directorate had enough of its loafers, but you’re Vanka for me, but the production plan is more expensive for me.
              1. veteran66
                veteran66 4 December 2016 13: 25
                0
                Quote: Fitter65
                at the time of the Union, a salary of 350 rubles, even in the Far East was considered good

                I'm talking about miners, but for them it was below average.
                Quote: Fitter65
                And on the account of the fact that the mine and the plant plowed on them ... you tell someone else

                on them, it is not instead of them, namely on them: preparation of tunneling, equipment, most of the mine compressors, additional rafters .. a lot of things indirectly accumulated at the expense of other teams, the same thing about the "foremost turner", blanks from other teams, toolmakers only they work, and we ourselves mined and sharpened the incisors, in general, too, it is enough to list for a long time. So don't pretend to be an expert on life.
                Quote: Fitter65
                And nashisha new technique to give some kind of gouging

                and who told you that the rest of the mine was gouging? People climbed there not because of a love of art, but for money. After all, they paid for the development, and not for how many times you repaired the combine or sat without pressure.
        5. Baloo
          Baloo 30 November 2016 14: 09
          +10
          but the whites were those who rose against the usurpation of power by the Bolsheviks and the Bolshevik terror.
          Relying on the bayonets of the Entente, they drowned with barges, shot at villages, the movement is white, like for freedom.
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 4 December 2016 13: 27
            0
            Quote: Balu
            drowned with barges, shot at villages

            well, the Bolsheviks were the masters of the barges, and the villages were starved and flooded with gas. What does the Entente have to do with it?
            1. Baloo
              Baloo 4 December 2016 13: 30
              +2
              What does the Entente have to do with it?
              Under the agreement between Kolchak and the Entente, Russia was divided into protectorates, the restoration of a unified government in any form was denied as a special clause. Any war, who is not with us, is against us. Only the Bolsheviks gathered the country, and the Kolchaks sold it
        6. hhhhhhh
          hhhhhhh 19 May 2017 22: 38
          0
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Nobody wants to hang the yoke of egalitarianism and total control of the "public" over the private life of a citizen.

          Young people, as young people in the EU, want to be unemployed and poor.
    2. Vend
      Vend 30 November 2016 09: 59
      +5
      Obviously, Vladimir Lenin was a practical person and took money, but he was not an agent of Germany.
      This is true, but he played on German interests, although in the end he created a strong state. There is only one thing, a thirst for power. Lenin got it.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Andrey Zh
        Andrey Zh 30 November 2016 12: 05
        +9
        I think that it’s not a thirst for power, but a desire to put into practice their scientific developments — that’s what moved Lenin, well, a sense of social justice! By the way, the question is - how many Lenins really ruled the country? Here is the answer.
        1. Baloo
          Baloo 30 November 2016 14: 11
          +4
          and the desire to put into practice their scientific developments is what motivated Lenin, well, the sense of social justice! By the way, the question is - how many Lenins really ruled the country? Here is the answer.
          Brilliant answer. Any serious scientist, inventor. a representative of creative professions will also tell you that the pleasure and joy of creating is comparable to the pleasure of having sex with someone you love.
        2. veteran66
          veteran66 30 November 2016 20: 26
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Zhdanov
          By the way, the question is - how many Lenins really ruled the country? Here is the answer.

          so what is the answer? He ruled until his feet were carried forward, like all his followers, well, except for one.
      3. avt
        avt 30 November 2016 12: 24
        +7
        No. He played with GERMAN interests, and this is a big difference.
        Quote: Wend
        There is only one thing, a thirst for power. Lenin got it.
        request What actually was to be expected ??? While some gundos about some kind of divine, anointed rights to power, grasping arms, and even ideological ALWAYS take it, well, this power. And where and when from the time of the Old Testament it was different ???
        1. Vend
          Vend 30 November 2016 12: 26
          +6
          Quote: avt
          No. He played with GERMAN interests, and this is a big difference.
          Quote: Wend
          There is only one thing, a thirst for power. Lenin got it.
          request What actually was to be expected ??? While some gundos about some kind of divine, anointed rights to power, grasping arms, and even ideological ALWAYS take it, well, this power. And where and when from the time of the Old Testament it was different ???

          Yes, nowhere. The icon was simply created from Lenin and his followers and followers.
          1. avt
            avt 30 November 2016 12: 33
            +13
            Quote: Wend
            The icon was simply created from Lenin and his followers and followers.

            Ehhhh, mana, the captain! So did the graduate of the Theological Seminary! And he did, you see, BRILLIANT! The work of the World-Class Wizard and the World Masterpiece eventually appeared, maybe someone wrinkles from such an icon, but even the Chinese and Vietnamese replicas do not reach his work.
      4. MrK
        MrK 30 November 2016 12: 40
        +15
        Quote: Wend
        This is true, but he played on German interests, although in the end he created a strong state.

        I do not agree with Lenin's German interests.
        Dear colleagues, I will write point by point referring to the book of Alexander Kurlyandchik on Proza.ru "Damned" Soviet power ...
        First. To the question of the “sealed train car” on which the Bolsheviks arrived in Sweden. The fact, as they say, took place. However, it is less known that, in addition to a couple of dozen Bolsheviks, 169 members of other parties — Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, Bundists, Lithuanian Social Democrats, Finnish nationalists, etc. — also got through Germany from Switzerland to Sweden through Germany. So, by analogy with Lenin, all of them can also be called "German spies." But the current liberals are modestly silent about this.
        Second. In 1916, Lenin openly declared Parvus a German agent acting in the interests of the German General Staff in an open press. The Bolsheviks categorically refused to participate in all kinds of “peace conferences”, behind which the shadow of the German government loomed. And finally, inside Germany itself, the Bolsheviks supported the Spartak group, headed by Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg, who advocated the defeat of their government (as well as the Bolsheviks - their own). So Lenin and the German money of Parvus is stupid. And the fact that this stupid one was proved by ardent anti-adviser Vladimir Grinchuv. But he cannot be blamed for the love of the Communists.
        The third. The famous English spy George Hill, in his autobiographical book My Spy Life, published in Russia in 2000, tells who produced the fake documents about the financing of the Bolsheviks by the Germans. Hill was an ardent anti-communist and participated in several conspiracies against the Soviet government. So there is no reason to suspect Hill of sympathy for the Bolsheviks.
        And the initiator of the legend that the Bolsheviks, in particular Lenin, were agents of Germany, according to Hill, was the Minister of Arms of France Albert Thom, and the developer and executor was the captain of the French intelligence, Pierre Laurent. It was he who propagated in the summer of 1917 the idea of ​​the Germans using the Bolsheviks and Lenin personally as "paid German agents." The head of the counterintelligence of the Provisional Government, Boris Nikitin, helped him disseminate this information. Previously a Bolshevik, by the way.
        Best regards
        1. Vend
          Vend 30 November 2016 15: 27
          +5
          Quote: mrark
          Quote: Wend
          This is true, but he played on German interests, although in the end he created a strong state.

          I do not agree with Lenin's German interests.

          1. Russia came out of the war? Out.
          2. Was part of the territory of Russia given to Germany? It was.
          3. Has Russia lost its influence on the world stage? I lost it.
          Already on these three you can stop. All that was lost had to be returned long and hard.
          1. Rastas
            Rastas 30 November 2016 19: 42
            +8
            Yes, and you have the logic. Let’s, Wend, continue with your conclusions.
            1. Ivan the Terrible made peace with Poland and Sweden after the Livonian War, gave away part of the territory and conquered lands, Russia lost influence on the world stage - he is a Polish-Swedish agent.
            2. Mikhail Romanov concluded the Deulinsk truce with Poland, gave away Smolensk, Russia has lost influence, so he is a Polish agent.
            3. Alexander 2 killed the Paris world, gave up the conquered fortresses, removed the Black Sea Fleet, Russia lost influence, he is none other than an English-French-Turkish spy. Worked on three enemies, you bastard. But they almost defeated the enemies, they prove to us today. And after 10 years, in general, Alaska was sold to Americans by a penny. Know, the State Department has already fussed. What was the agent, huh?
            4. Nicholas 2 made peace with Japan. Again, the yapes, as they try to prove today, were already on the verge of defeat (according to FIG, our fleet was sunk). But in the end, the loss of territories, the loss of influence in the world. The Japanese spy Nikolashka turned out to be.
            1. Vend
              Vend 6 March 2017 10: 16
              0
              Quote: Rastas
              Yes, and you have the logic. Let’s, Wend, continue with your conclusions.
              1. Ivan the Terrible made peace with Poland and Sweden after the Livonian War, gave away part of the territory and conquered lands, Russia lost influence on the world stage - he is a Polish-Swedish agent.
              2. Mikhail Romanov concluded the Deulinsk truce with Poland, gave away Smolensk, Russia has lost influence, so he is a Polish agent.
              3. Alexander 2 killed the Paris world, gave up the conquered fortresses, removed the Black Sea Fleet, Russia lost influence, he is none other than an English-French-Turkish spy. Worked on three enemies, you bastard. But they almost defeated the enemies, they prove to us today. And after 10 years, in general, Alaska was sold to Americans by a penny. Know, the State Department has already fussed. What was the agent, huh?
              4. Nicholas 2 made peace with Japan. Again, the yapes, as they try to prove today, were already on the verge of defeat (according to FIG, our fleet was sunk). But in the end, the loss of territories, the loss of influence in the world. The Japanese spy Nikolashka turned out to be.

              No need to take aside amiable
        2. Hapfri
          Hapfri 4 December 2016 12: 09
          +1
          another 169 members of other parties arrived - the Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, Bundists, Lithuanian Social Democrats, Finnish nationalists, etc. So, by analogy with Lenin, all of them can also be called "German spies." But the current liberals are modestly silent about this.

          You can call only who remembers them.
          When the Soviets had to indicate in the questionnaires whether you were in the occupation, and then travel through enemy territory, contacts with the German authorities
          and Rosa Luxemburg, who advocated the defeat of their government (as well as the Bolsheviks - their own).

          Doing everything you can to defeat your country in a war against the enemy is even worse than being a spy.
          And the initiator of the legend that the Bolsheviks, in particular Lenin, were agents of Germany, according to Hill,

          And do you believe a burnt English spy?
          English spy George Hill in the autobiographical book My Spy Life

          Where there is evidence that this type of scout, maybe he’s just cheating on fiction. Intelligence always hides its affairs. For example, Griboedov’s case is still closed.
          1. MrK
            MrK 4 December 2016 14: 13
            +2
            Quote: Hupfri
            When the Soviets had to indicate in the questionnaires whether you were in the occupation, and then travel through enemy territory, contacts with the German authorities


            If you, my dear, had read the book to which I referred, you would have seen that there were no contacts with the Germans. I give a specific source. And you are only tra la la.

            And about the profiles. In my house in WWII in Belarus there was a German dining room. And mother with two babies lived in a bathhouse. Father was at the front. So mother, two years of occupation, worked in a German dining room as a waitress. And no one even once rebuked her even once.
            And when it came time to retire, she lacked two years of experience. And in the social security they asked: did you work for the Germans? The mother said by whom and how much she worked. She was asked to bring two witnesses and were credited with these two years of work experience. Mother received her pension. This is such a "damned" Soviet power. By the title of the book. Only quotes do not forget.

            And about the defeat of his country. Do not lie. Lenin wanted the defeat of the bourgeois government, not the country. It was assumed that the workers and peasants, having taken power in their hands, would all win back. So they won back.
        3. Aitvaras
          Aitvaras 3 February 2017 11: 23
          0
          The trip of V.I. Lenin in a sealed German carriage, under the armed guard of the Germans to Sweden and then receiving money from the Germans was such a fact. It is hard to imagine that Ivan the Terrible or Mikhail Romanov would receive money from this enemy or others. services. On the other hand, Lenin was undoubtedly a talented politician who was ahead of his time. The revolutionary situation soon became in Europe, as he had foreseen, a reality. He was a pragmatist and a realist, hence the Cheka, the Red Terror, etc., understood that communism without violence was not built exactly on this basis. the cause of the collapse, the subsequent communist movement in the World, the unsustainability of the ideas of Marxism, the collapse of the USSR and other similar states, as well as the economic failure of Marxism, it was Lenin who created the NEP in Soviet Russia. A concrete example is modern North Korea and Cuba or the terrible experiments of the communist Paul Sweat.
      5. Fitter65
        Fitter65 30 November 2016 14: 18
        +12
        Quote: Wend
        Obviously, Vladimir Lenin was a practical person and took money, but he was not an agent of Germany.
        This is true, but he played on German interests, although in the end he created a strong state. There is only one thing, a thirst for power. Lenin got it.

        The paradox, playing on German interests, created a state that the Germans lowered below the plinth. By the way, those who Lenin poured mud on the Sdalinites everything that was in the hands of the Bolsheviks, the GDR, for example, and other Eastern Europe ...
        1. Vend
          Vend 30 November 2016 15: 29
          +2
          Quote: Fitter65
          Quote: Wend
          Obviously, Vladimir Lenin was a practical person and took money, but he was not an agent of Germany.
          This is true, but he played on German interests, although in the end he created a strong state. There is only one thing, a thirst for power. Lenin got it.

          The paradox, playing on German interests, created a state that the Germans lowered below the plinth. By the way, those who Lenin poured mud on the Sdalinites everything that was in the hands of the Bolsheviks, the GDR, for example, and other Eastern Europe ...

          The atom was also studied to improve a peaceful life, and received powerful weapons. That's just where does the GDR and Lenin, the GDR is a project of Stalin. Neither Lenin nor the Bolsheviks were already there by that time, there were communists.
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 30 November 2016 16: 00
            +9
            Quote: Wend
            Quote: Fitter65
            Quote: Wend
            Obviously, Vladimir Lenin was a practical person and took money, but he was not an agent of Germany.
            This is true, but he played on German interests, although in the end he created a strong state. There is only one thing, a thirst for power. Lenin got it.

            The paradox, playing on German interests, created a state that the Germans lowered below the plinth. By the way, those who Lenin poured mud on the Sdalinites everything that was in the hands of the Bolsheviks, the GDR, for example, and other Eastern Europe ...

            The atom was also studied to improve a peaceful life, and received powerful weapons. That's just where does the GDR and Lenin, the GDR is a project of Stalin. Neither Lenin nor the Bolsheviks were already there by that time, there were communists.

            GDR project of Stalin? Well, a vegetable to help you. Even at the Yalta Conference, I.V. Stalin was against the partition of Germany. There were different OCCUPATION ZONES, but the state should have been one. When did Germany appear there?! ASA? And when did the GDR appear? Just don’t draw the hazel grouse here on glass, Moroz has better patterns. When did the FRG get hold of the army, navy and air force? When did they join NATO (tell me the year of creation or find it yourself in Google)? That's why everything was done after arrival Bolsheviks to power, was a response to the actions of shit-democrats. For each of their actions our opposition. Nothing preventive.
            1. Vend
              Vend 30 November 2016 16: 17
              +2
              Quote: Fitter65

              GDR project of Stalin? Well, a vegetable to help you. Even at the Yalta Conference, I.V. Stalin was against the partition of Germany. There were different OCCUPATION ZONES, but the state should have been one. When did Germany appear there?! ASA? And when did the GDR appear? Just don’t draw the hazel grouse here on glass, Moroz has better patterns. When did the FRG get hold of the army, navy and air force? When did they join NATO (tell me the year of creation or find it yourself in Google)? That's why everything was done after arrival Bolsheviks to power, was a response to the actions of shit-democrats. For each of their actions our opposition. Nothing preventive.

              You do not remember the Yalta Conference, but the Potsdam Conference. Yalta to 1945 year has already lost its relevance. You are kind that the creation of the GDR is reckoned to Lenin, sheep are dragged. Vinaigrette in your head amiable.
        2. murriou
          murriou 4 December 2016 13: 37
          0
          For liberals, the main thing is to find who to turn the arrows for their own sins.
      6. Baloo
        Baloo 5 March 2017 17: 56
        +2
        German money came from the Bolsheviks thanks to Parvus (Gelfand), a Polish Jew who hated Russia. I don’t know how Baron Walter Nikolai met with Parvus, but it was Colonel Nikolai who convinced the then Prime Minister of Germany to give money to Parvus under his Transnational diversified trading company. Many second-tier Bolsheviks who died in the 30s or did not live up to 30s worked in Parvus structures throughout the geyrop and in Russia. Gonetsky, who later became the first banker of Russia after October 1917, drove money to Lenin, which was laundered through transfers from bank to bank and through mail.
        However, when Parvus wanted to steer the revolution and even sent Lenin a draft with an agreement on Brest, Lenin replied: The revolution is done with clean hands. Regarding money, in the writings of Lenin there is a note: Do we take money from Parvus.
        Let us return to our time: why did the EBN dismiss Kerzhakov, a loyal to him? Why was Sobchak detained in London with a diplomat with “helping Zenith from Italian fans”? Thatcher personally needed a call to resolve the situation in a day.
        Well, oral? A printout of the “agreement of intent” between Tsrul Browder and the “anti-corruption fighter” oral has already been repeatedly published. I have no reason not to believe our special services. And Khodorkovsky? His gang of 10 people held a controlling stake in Yukos, he boasted of "ties" with the vice president of the FSA. If the FSB hadn’t worked, the control block of shares in Yukos, which gave 10% of the budget, would have gone to the states. Who are the co-founders of his foundation? Brzezinski, Rothschild and another group of sworn partners of Russia. Who is on the board? Persons wanted by Russia for multi-million dollar budget theft. Who is in the oral fund? foreign "specialists". When I see an oral mug, a great desire to run a slipper on the TV.
        Well, about 2 dozen tsrules who "helped" the redhead privatize a third of the defense industry enterprises, this truth is mentioned several times a year. Our country is too liberal, or rather tolerant to enemies.
    3. Lem
      Lem 30 November 2016 11: 02
      +7
      Thank you for what? For the fact that, allegedly, a certain Samsonov had a fancy, that the Bolsheviks ascribed "February" to themselves? That Ilyich allegedly took money from Parvus ....?
      Do not you understand that this is a foul-smelling bookmark of foul fakes, many times refuted, for brainwashing?
      1. avt
        avt 30 November 2016 12: 28
        +5
        Quote: Lem
        That Ilyich allegedly took money from Parvus ....?

        laughing Parvus / Gelfand BRAL Germans have at least money to return the senior staff of the RSDLPb to Russia, naturally with the prospect of sitting in the Lenin government in a bread position. Actually, what was done by the main performer in Sweden, Krasin.
        1. Lem
          Lem 30 November 2016 16: 48
          +3
          parvusu -parvusovo. But where is Ilyich? What is there in your training manual then, son, is it recorded on the entot?
        2. justas-xnumx
          justas-xnumx 1 December 2016 17: 41
          +2
          It is known that Lenin REFUSED to meet with Parvus, and when he came to the cafe where Lenin had lunch with his associates, Lenin stood up and openly said that he did not want to deal with a fraudster and provocateur.
  2. BLOND
    BLOND 30 November 2016 06: 41
    +5
    For many Februaryists, it was a terrible shock when “the West did not help”


    Everything moves in a spiral ...
    1. Andrey Zh
      Andrey Zh 30 November 2016 12: 05
      0
      Yes, yes, exactly so - in a spiral !!!
  3. Senior manager
    Senior manager 30 November 2016 06: 55
    +10
    The article systematized the previous volume of information, very similar to the truth. I want to make a clarification - Lenin was not a German spy, he was one of the agents of influence, who succeeded in his work, and in fact the October Revolution was organized also with German money. Article plus.
    1. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 08: 15
      +5
      St. Propeller and where is the fact how do you write that the October Revolution is organized with German money? belay
    2. Uncle Murzik
      Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 08: 43
      +8
      The senior prophet is much more interesting here! "European monarchs continue their attempts to seize Russia"
      http://новости-россии.ru-an.info/новости/европейс
      Kiev ..

      European monarchs continue attempts to seize Russia

      Today's conquerors for money, the Rothschilds are led to Russia by the daughter of SS Obergruppenfuhrer Maria Vladimirovna Hohenzollern, who modestly calls herself Romanova. She wants to make her son George the new emperor of Russia ...
      1. novel66
        novel66 30 November 2016 09: 21
        +14
        Yes, these impostors pulled up, according to the law on succession to the throne, not a single goat (goat) dare to call themselves either grand princes or heirs to the throne, hoopoes are poor, evil is not enough, and, yes, I am categorically against the term "Romanov empire" - this is the Russian Empire, and they are already nobody, and there is no way to call
    3. Fotoceva62
      Fotoceva62 30 November 2016 08: 50
      +14
      The Bolsheviks saved Russia from collapse, it was Lenin who said the prophetic words ... there is such a party! ... The October Revolution was a reaction to the coup organized by the liberal bourgeois scum, which was ready to burn the country for the sake of profits. Not the Bolsheviks began terror and civil war. All this we are now witnessing in Ukraine, the weak-willed Yanukovych (Nikolai2), the oligarchy and the Trotskyists in parliament, probably already the Bolsheviks. German money? Perhaps, and perhaps not, and it doesn’t matter. Under the leadership of the Provisional Government, the collapse of Russia was inevitable.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 09: 16
        +12
        Yes Yes. You will also say that the Reds, not the Whites, were in favor of "United and Indivisible Russia". And it was probably not the Bolsheviks who created the Ukrainian SSR, the BSSR and the Central Asian republics? And they probably didn’t carry out the policy of "indigenousization" either.
        1. Uncle Murzik
          Uncle Murzik 30 November 2016 09: 36
          +7
          the most beloved PoruchikTeterin and what facts spoil the general picture of monarchy lovers! laughingand that the republic did not enter the USSR! lol
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 09: 46
            +8
            They entered, and were created at the expense of the RSFSR. And at the first opportunity, they tore your precious USSR to pieces.
        2. Fitter65
          Fitter65 30 November 2016 16: 15
          +7
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Yes Yes. You will also say that the Reds, not the Whites, were in favor of "United and Indivisible Russia". And it was probably not the Bolsheviks who created the Ukrainian SSR, the BSSR and the Central Asian republics? And they probably didn’t carry out the policy of "indigenousization" either.

          Yes, of course it was the Reds who went to Moscow and Petrograd, along with the Germans, the British, the French, they in the Far East, together with the Americans, the Japanese, robbed Siberia and Transbaikalia, they raised White Belleys to revolt.
          Of course, they were not saints and they made mistakes, but it was not they who tried to come to power with the help of the eventunts (foreign armies), but your white officers, who so "loved" "their (?)" People that they went en masse under the Reds !!! Do not believe me, then explain how, a small number of people who were then in the RCP (b) were able to smash all the traitors together with their masters and build a powerful state? That your monarchy did not shine. The people rose not for faith, the king and fatherland. and for the Bolsheviks. And this is a fact that you will soon be 100 years old, as it will be, trying to slap mud. But as they say, vegetables you Fritz in the buttocks.
        3. Fotoceva62
          Fotoceva62 30 November 2016 19: 15
          +8
          “For Teterin” Sir, have you carefully studied the above document? After the arts of the last emperor, and especially the rule of the temporary ones, it is generally surprising that the country was gathered. It may already be enough to crunch with rolls, twice in the same river you can’t enter.
  4. cap
    cap 30 November 2016 06: 56
    +5
    The liberal-bourgeois, Masonic circles organized a revolution, overthrew the emperor and created a “window of opportunity”.

    Here's something that reminds me. laughing
    And what, the story moves in a spiral, according to pundits.
    I liked the article. simple and without hysteria.
    In general, nothing new, but the presentation is interesting.
  5. V.ic
    V.ic 30 November 2016 07: 27
    +11
    There is a saying: victory has many fathers, defeat is always an orphan. Now the inspirers of the "white tape" project are once again trying hard to rewrite history, accusing the Bolsheviks, led by Lenin, of all "mortal sins", including the February revolution of 1917. These attempts are comparable to the desire to wear trousers over the head. Article plus.
    1. MrK
      MrK 30 November 2016 23: 49
      +2
      Quote: V.ic
      Now the inspirers of the "white tape" project are once again trying hard to rewrite history,

      Right colleague you say. It can be supplemented. that these white coilers accuse the people of Russia of many sins:
      - the fact that our great-grandfathers are tired of being slaves and participated in the revolution;
      - that they won the civil war;
      - that they slapped the royal martyr, whom his contemporaries called the Bloody.
      But Confucius also said: Beware of those who want to impute your guilt. For they crave power over you.
      with respect.
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 30 November 2016 07: 55
    +10
    It is known that the British sponsored the future Empress Catherine II, with British gold, she was able to organize a palace coup, which led to the murder of her husband.
    ... The British also had a hand in the murder of Paul I ... The French Lestok helped Lizaveta Petrovna ascend to the throne ... Here Lenin was supposedly a German spy, but did not receive the Iron Cross from the Kaiser, and Lenin opposed the war .. .Zhordania, was for the war with Germany to a victorious end .., but he received the Iron Cross from the Kaiser ... and not like shpien ...
  7. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 30 November 2016 08: 23
    +7
    When he is buried then!
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 09: 15
      +18
      Siberia 9444 Today, 08:23 New
      When he is buried then!
      Did he interfere with you specifically ?! Or is it so easy to fart unsuccessfully ?!

      2017 will come exactly one month later, if on the hundredth anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution an attempt is made to bury Lenin, I’m afraid it will be fraught with a new revolution, but Russia now needs it ?! So think with your head what you are writing, not the place you are sitting on!
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 10: 23
        +10
        What revolution? Ulyanov’s mummy matters only to pensioners, but they didn’t protest even when they monetized pension benefits. And even for the preservation of Ulyanov in the center of the country no one will even go to a rally, but you are threatening with a revolution ...
        1. potroshenko
          potroshenko 30 November 2016 11: 45
          +2
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          Before Ulyanov’s mummy, it’s only for pensioners

          Not even retirees.
          1. MrK
            MrK 30 November 2016 12: 55
            +4
            Quote: potroshenko
            Not even retirees.

            Ukrainian hungry pensioners in particular
        2. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx 30 November 2016 12: 48
          +4
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          What revolution? Before the mummy of Ulyanov, it matters only to pensioners ...

          In vain you are so. A good friend was recently in Moscow, including and he visited the mausoleum with the children, he says, there are not so few people, there is a queue, though mostly Chinese.

          Yes, and let me give you good advice - do not get into a discussion with this sweet lady, under the nickname Diana. According to her behavior, she is a real troll and provocateur, and you are being fought.
          1. Hapfri
            Hapfri 4 December 2016 13: 01
            0
            A good friend was recently in Moscow, including and he visited the mausoleum with the children, he says, there are not so few people, there is a queue, though mostly Chinese.

            I live in Moscow. The mausoleum is closed.
        3. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 30 November 2016 16: 43
          +3
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          What revolution?


          "People have always been and always will be stupid victims of deception and self-deception in politics, until they learn to look for the interests of certain classes behind any moral, religious, political, social phrases, statements, promises." - Three sources and three components of Marxism (March 1913). - Collected Works, 5th ed., V. 23, p. 47 ... V.I. Lenin.
      2. Locomotive
        Locomotive 30 November 2016 12: 10
        +6
        Nuuu, it’s time to bury Lenin’s mummy according to Christian custom.
        Although, the Bolshevik and atheist Lenin would probably be against his funeral service laughing
      3. Siberia 9444
        Siberia 9444 30 November 2016 16: 52
        +3
        It is unlikely that there will be a new revolution from the dead Lenin (I apologize), enough with the living was already hi
      4. CorvusCoraks
        CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 16: 13
        0
        There is no need for new revolutions, the state must evolve, and a revolution is always a huge sacrifice, strife, devastation, famine, upheaval, and often civil almost fratricidal war. The breakdown of the old ways, the institution of the family, banditry, walk the field, excesses on the ground, lynching, the growth of crime, moral decay.
      5. urganov
        urganov 12 January 2017 16: 42
        0
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        if on the hundredth anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution an attempt is made to bury Lenin, I’m afraid it will be fraught with a new revolution


        Yoshkin light. What a mess in your head, ma'am. Yes, people from a high bell tower 28 times this mummy. The revolution ... Well come up with.
  8. knn54
    knn54 30 November 2016 08: 24
    +7
    - became a prisoner of the commander of the Northern Front, General N.V. Ruzsky,
    It has already been proven that EXACTLY this general is guilty of the failure of the operation of the Russian army in Poland - his "instructions" allowed the Germans to defeat Rennenkampf's army in the Lodz operation. As well as the actions of the predecessor of Ruzsky-Zhilinsky led to the tragedy in Prussia - the death of Samsonov's army.
    Lenin was a fanatic who believed in his idea. Yes, Germany helped in pursuing its goals to knock Russia out of the war. Yes, until a CERTAIN moment, their interests coincided. And then, I.I. Lenin simply broke with the Boschs. The question is, who used whom ...
  9. demotivator
    demotivator 30 November 2016 08: 25
    +9
    Even the United States (!) In the 50s completely denied Lenin's involvement in German money, because the documents cited by the supporters of this myth turned out to be fake, and all the institutions whose signatures were documents were nonexistent. The first to make this stuffing was the Provisional Government. He really wanted to discredit the Bolsheviks and Lenin personally. They didn’t invent anything new, using the “spy scheme” already worked out in tsarist times: the ensign of the 16th Siberian Regiment Ermolenko, captured at the beginning of the war, returned from German captivity. Having appeared - from "patriotic convictions" - in Russian counterintelligence, Ermolenko explained that he was recruited by German intelligence "For campaigning in favor of an early conclusion of a separate peace with Germany" in the rear of the Russian army. Allegedly, “the officers of the German General Staff Shiditsky and Lyuders told him that the agents of the German General Staff, the chairman of the section“ Union for the Liberation of Ukraine ”A. Skoropis-Ioltukhovsky and Lenin, conduct the same kind of agitation in Russia. "Lenin was instructed to strive by all means to undermine the confidence of the Russian people in the Provisional Government." For a while, this scam worked, and the authority of the Bolsheviks in the summer of 1917 was dealt a serious political blow. However, this “interim" did not help. By the fall of 1917, the country came to a complete collapse of everything and everything.
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 30 November 2016 09: 06
      +11
      Even the United States (!) In the 50s completely denied Lenin’s involvement in German money,
      ... Here by the way ... if Lenin was a spy, and it was documented ... The West would constantly manipulate this ... what an excellent weapon on the ideological front, but no ... there are emissions, but all are so yellowish, without evidence ..It's the same as with the secret protocols to the Moscow Treaty of 1939 .. everyone says that they were .. but no one published it "live", neither Germany nor Russia still .. But they refer again to fake ..
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 November 2016 11: 57
        +8
        "The Moscow Treaty of 1939 ... everyone says that they were ... but no one published" live "did not see" ///

        I even published them somehow on VO in a subject (there is only one printed sheet). But no one believed it anyway. recourse

        So with the receipts of the recipients of German money - they were published, but did not produce any revealing effect.

        This is a question of faith, not facts. How to "show proof" to the believer that there is no God. Or vice versa. smile
        1. Fitter65
          Fitter65 30 November 2016 16: 32
          +3
          Quote: voyaka uh
          I even published them somehow on VO in a subject (there is only one printed sheet). But no one believed it anyway.

          It’s evidently badly printed; for those who are on an armored train such a question, Why were these protocols found in the German archives and only in the German language in the 90s? Although Nazi Germany had the entire archive with their Western allies since 1945, why there was no text in Russian. After all, when signing international treaties, the text is written in two languages, which are stored in both countries. And why is there only a translation from the German copy, which was in German, and not a copy from the original which in Russian should have been attached to the German copy? Yes sosotoyalos signing of the so-called Pact Molotogva-Ribbentrop Pact? And when did the German war begin against their former allies of the Poles? After all, did the Poles help the Germans pick up Czechoslovakia, or not?
          Well, for you, the question is more related when Jewish terrorists began to clean Arab villages from local ones in Palistine, then an English protectorate, sort of like at the end of the 20s of the last century? And when there the UN signed a resolution on the creation of the state of Israel? The USSR was for creating Is Israel the Stalin project ?.
      2. Andrey Zh
        Andrey Zh 30 November 2016 12: 16
        +1
        Lenin was not a spy. It is a fact. It would be otherwise, any anti-Soviet from 1918 to 1991 would have posted "this" and there would have been nothing to cover for us! ... But about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, you are mistaken - there were many witnesses at the signing of the pact, and who saw this ill-fated the map - too, read, at least the memories of the same Berezhkov - though the book is weak, but read easily and in one breath! Yes, and Molotov does not deny the fact of the card, and his signature on it. Well, the further development of events - in terms of "geography", after all, everything turned out to be accurate to the nearest millimeter! Do you agree?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 November 2016 13: 15
          +8
          "Lenin was not a spy. It's a fact" ///

          So the article confirms this. He had a contract with German
          General Staff on the peaceful withdrawal of Russia from the war. It was beneficial to both parties.
          (parties of the Bolsheviks and Germany) for various reasons.
          Huge amounts of money were allocated to propagate peace and were transferred by couriers to the Bolsheviks.
          Lenin wrote detailed reports on what the money was spent on. I didn’t take it for myself.
          As soon as the First World War ended, the treaty ended.
          1. MrK
            MrK 30 November 2016 23: 53
            +1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            So the article confirms this. He had a contract with German
            General Staff on the peaceful withdrawal of Russia from the war. It was beneficial to both parties.


            And I will go to Izgail, comrade. Most of all, to Izgale.
  10. xorgi
    xorgi 30 November 2016 08: 36
    +4
    It is interesting, but only the name does not correspond to the content: there are only the last three paragraphs about Lenin.
  11. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 09: 19
    +9
    I do not agree with the author - the last, key step that finally pushed Russia into the bloody embrace of the Civil War was made on November 7, 1917, forcibly seizing power - one of the political forces, namely the Bolsheviks, ignored all societies and decided to impose its power on Russia and your ideology.
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 09: 48
      +15
      decided to impose its power and its ideology on Russia.
      Which most of Russia supported! And your views were alien to the majority of the people, what then, what now! Therefore, you will always lose, because as according to Bulgakov: "the people are not with you, they are against you!"
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 30 November 2016 10: 17
        +6
        It’s good to impose it on a small, limited territory. And on such a huge territory as RI, and with those means of communication with that movement. ..... Impossible to impose.
        1. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 12: 58
          +8
          There were enough deputies from the RSDLP who promised the active part of the population mountains of gold. And then any failures of the Soviets pinned down on external or internal enemies - "kulaks", "Japanese spies", etc.
          1. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS 30 November 2016 16: 36
            +2
            VI Lenin: "
            "One method of the bourgeois press always and in all countries turns out to be the most popular and" unmistakably "valid. Lie, make noise, shout, repeat the lie -" something will remain. "-" Union of Lies "(April 13 (26), 1917) .— PSS, 5th ed., T. 31, p. 217.
            1. Operator
              Operator 30 November 2016 18: 14
              +4
              Vladimir Blanc did not have a drop of Russian blood in his family. His mother was German with an admixture of Swedish and Jewish blood. Father is half Kalmyk, half Chuvash.

              Mother constantly repeated to V. Blank: “Russian Oblomovism”, “learn from the Germans”, “Russian fool”, “Russian uduots”.

              Selected from V. Blanca:
              "Russians are" assholes "
              "Ivashki" must be fooled. We will not seize power without fooling "Ivashki"
              "I don't care about Russia"
              The resolution at the request of F. Dzerzhinsky from 19 December 1919 on a million captured Cossacks: “Shoot all to one.”

              Karl Mordechai during the Crimean War:
              "Kronstadt must be destroyed ... Without Odessa, Kronstadt, Riga, Sevastopol, with an emancipated Finland and a hostile army at the gates of the capital, with all its rivers and bays blocked by allies, what will happen to Russia?"
              “In the war with Russia ... the motives of people shooting at Russians are completely indifferent, whether the motives ... are black, red, gold or revolutionary”

              The assistant K. Mordechai German Friedrich Engels:

              "About German interests, about German freedom, about German unity, German welfare CANNOT BE SPEAKED when the question is about freedom or oppression, about the happiness or unhappiness of the WHOLE EUROPE. This is where all national questions end, there is ONLY ONE QUESTION! DO YOU BE FREE or WANT TO BE UNDER THE FIFTH OF RUSSIA? "

              "As for Russia, it can only be mentioned as the owner of a huge amount of stolen property, which she will have to give back on the day of reckoning."

              "Europe [stands] before an alternative: either the conquest of it by the Slavs, or the destruction of the center of their offensive power - Russia FOREVER."

              "The Czechs, to whom we also count the Moravians and Slovaks ... have never had their own history ... AND THIS" NATION ", HISTORICALLY NOT EXISTING, MAKES A CLAIM OF INDEPENDENCE?"

              "But at the very first victorious uprising of the French proletariat, which Louis Napoleon is trying with all his might to summon, the Austrian Germans and Magyars will free themselves and repay the Slavic barbarians with bloody revenge. The general war that will then break out will scatter this Slavic Sonderbund and wipe even the name from the face of the earth of these stubborn little nations. "

              "In the coming world war, not only reactionary classes and dynasties will disappear from the face of the earth, but also entire reactionary peoples. And this will also be progress."


              French Jew Maurice Murrey in The Jewish Spirit:

              “By blood and tradition, Karl Marx belongs to the body and soul of Judaism. Every intense manifestation of Jewish idealism in Europe is manifested with rebellion, famine, genocide and devastation. "
      2. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 10: 31
        +10
        It supported. How so. Only in the civilian sector, 5% of the country's population actively participated in the force. And for some reason, the most reliable red units were from Latvians and Chinese - the red commanders themselves write about this in their memoirs. And the population so supported the red ideas that the same collectivization, of course, went completely voluntarily, quickly and ahead of schedule. lol
        1. Diana Ilyina
          Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 10: 54
          +15
          Lieutenant Teterin Today, 10:31 ↑
          It supported. How so. Only in the civilian sector 5% of the country's population actively participated in the force.
          Oh, just 5% participated ?! What did you measure ?!
          And for some reason, the most reliable red parts were from Latvians and Chinese
          Yeah, the Latvians and the Chinese fielded 100500 Latvian-Chinese divisions and utterly defeated the best white generals who were massively followed by 146% of the people ?! lol fool
          1. novel66
            novel66 30 November 2016 11: 00
            +10
            the peasants, who were in the absolute majority, supported just the Reds, because they promised land. and whites except the king on the throne and the one and indivisible did not blather. Well, for whom will the population be?
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 11: 10
            +9
            These 100500 divisions are only in your imagination. I talked about the most persistent parts that did not run away from the first onslaught and did not go over to the side of the whites. The White Samur Infantry Regiment was recruited from captured Red Army soldiers. Also, the Tula Infantry Division was recruited from volunteers who came with the Cossacks of Mamantov from the rear of the Reds. 5% come from comparing the actual number of armies fighting with the country's population. I hope you have been taught to count?
            1. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 11: 56
              +16
              Lieutenant Teterin Today, 11:10 ↑
              I talked about the most persistent parts that did not run away from the first onslaught and did not go over to the white side. The White Samur Infantry Regiment was recruited from captured Red Army soldiers.
              From Yoshkin's cat, wow. Well, I can tell you the same thing about the red units that were recruited from the whites, who were poured out in droves from your officers. I'll tell you more, my paternal great-grandfather Karp, was mobilized by the whites in 1919. He did not have time to fight for a long time, from half a year, until the first serious battle with the 1st Cavalry Army, in which their "brave", "noble" white officers, people of "honor" and extraordinary "courage", were thrown in the trenches to the mercy of fate fleeing from the battlefield in full force !!! After that, the entire Cossack hundred of my great-grandfather completely ceased resistance and almost fully joined the 1st Cavalry Army of Budyonny, where they fought safely until the end of the Civil War! And this is not my invention, this is the real story of my great-grandfather, who, by the way, had two George for WWI. Then he was awarded the Order of the Battle Red Banner, by the way, for expelling the Whites and their Anglo-French allies from the Crimea, together with your "greatest" commander Wrangel! He also had an award checker from Budyonny himself.
              My other great-grandfather, on the maternal side, was a Cossack officer. During the uprising in Veshenskaya he joined the Whites. Then, during the retreat of Denikin's army, he was wounded and thrown by his own "gentlemen officers" to the mercy of fate. When he somehow got home, they hid him in a stack of firewood, since there were already red ones in the village. He did not want to surrender, and therefore left in an unknown direction, we know nothing more about him. But his son, my grandfather, was a staunch communist all his life and to the end of his days he was convinced of the infallibility of Stalin and the CPSU!

              So all your "arguments" are nonsense!
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 13: 03
                +8
                Great story. Narrated by man in the 21st century. And I refer to the memoirs of contemporaries of the Civil War.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 13: 55
                  +14
                  Lieutenant Teterin Today, 13:03 ↑ New
                  Great story. Narrated by man in the 21st century. And I refer to the memoirs of contemporaries of the Civil War.
                  And I am deeply purple about the opinions of those people to whom you refer! My family honors their ancestors and their family tree. And I believe my grandfathers and great-grandfathers, and not rezunami, Solzhenitsyn, Fomenko and other rash jackals!
                2. murriou
                  murriou 1 December 2016 10: 38
                  0
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  And I refer to the memoirs of contemporaries of the Civil War.

                  Can you be more specific?
                  In particular, A.I. Is Denikin one of your trusted sources, or is he your agent of the Bolsheviks? lol
                  Otherwise, in his "notes of an officer" and "sketches of Russian turmoil", information is constantly very, very unpleasant for crystal bakers. laughing
        2. Fitter65
          Fitter65 30 November 2016 16: 34
          +2
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          . Only in the civilian sector, 5% of the country's population actively participated in the force. And for some reason, the most reliable red units were from Latvians and Chinese - the red commanders themselves write about this in their memoirs.

          And for the whites, 90% of the population and the army of France, Great Britain, USA, Japan ...
          1. murriou
            murriou 1 December 2016 10: 36
            0
            ... and these supposedly 5% stuffed the face of the whites, whom the entire population allegedly supported, and the invaders of several great powers, who at the same time supported the white "Russian" army at the ready. laughing

            I haven’t heard so many compliments from the Bolsheviks from anyone, and SUCH compliments to the Bolsheviks as from Khrustobunnikov. Superman weep under the baseboard, seeing their miserable insignificance against the backdrop of such feats laughing
        3. murriou
          murriou 1 December 2016 10: 45
          +1
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          for some reason the most reliable red parts were from Latvians and Chinese

          Oh how! The Ivanovo weavers on whom Frunze relied were Latvians and Chinese! laughing And in Ivanovo, men still don’t know lol
          And the Baltic red sailors, marked on all fronts of the Civil War, who made up the majority of the red armored train teams, were also Chinese, only well disguised, that’s a surprise! laughing

          You, lieutenant, are an experienced * entertainer of the public *. hi Do not rush to go with trump cards. When you just start to lie - it’s even more like a person from the public.
          But when you are caught on a small lie and trying to justify it with a larger one, then the CIRCLE begins! lol good laughing
      3. PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS 30 November 2016 11: 47
        +6
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        Which the majority of Russia also supported! And your views were alien to the majority of the people, what then, what now! Therefore, you will always lose, because as according to Bulgakov: "the people are not with you, they are against you!"

        I agree with you!
        Comrade Stalin also speaks of an ongoing class struggle:

        "The sabotage of the bourgeois intelligentsia is one of the most dangerous forms
        resistance against developing socialism. Wrecking all the more
        it is dangerous that it is connected with international capital. Bourgeois wrecking
        there is an indisputable indicator that the capitalist elements are far
        didn’t lay down arms that they accumulate strength for new oppositions
        Soviet power ".
        ("On the right deviation in the CPSU (b)" v.12 p.14.)
      4. Aitvaras
        Aitvaras 3 February 2017 12: 00
        0
        Undoubtedly, “the people are not with you ...” - such a fact was. As for example. the quantitative composition of the Red Army and the White Army during the civil war, the number of former tsarist officers serving the Bolsheviks, or the comparative scope of the partisan movement on the territory of the "white" and "red" but if this people knew then that in the future there would be dispossession, famine, mass repressions comrade Berries, Yezhov, Beria, then perhaps everything would be the other way around.
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 30 November 2016 11: 56
      +5
      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
      the key step that finally pushed Russia into the bloody embrace of the Civil War was taken on November 7, 1917,

      How pretentious! So from your point of view, it was done on November 7, 1917, when in fact the October coup took place on October 25, 1917, which is why that coup was called the "October Revolution"! EG is crying!
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 13: 04
        +8
        About "old style" and "new style" you probably haven't heard?
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 30 November 2016 13: 20
          +4
          Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
          About "old style" and "new style"

          For you, the baker, the old style is just dearer and closer than the new one introduced by the decision of the Council of People's Commissars!
    3. parusnik
      parusnik 30 November 2016 12: 24
      +2
      Excuse me, why did you have to overthrow the emperor in February 1917 ..?
      1. novel66
        novel66 30 November 2016 15: 32
        +5
        why not, read Lenin’s works on the revolutionary situation - what you won’t take away from him is the ability to clearly state your thoughts
    4. CT-55_11-9009
      CT-55_11-9009 30 November 2016 13: 15
      +8
      For a second, then on the calendar was October 23, the transition to the Gregorian calendar was in 1918 (in February, if I am not mistaken). Further, who ignored everyone there? RSDLP (b)? Not everyone, to your displeasure. The Mensheviks were, albeit a small number. Plus, the Left Social Revolutionaries joined the Bolsheviks. And the attempt to whitewash the Februaryists from your lips generally looks cool - the monarchist defends the traitors of the monarch! It's five!
  12. fif21
    fif21 30 November 2016 09: 54
    +6
    Yes, even an agent Martian laughing What will it change? Few people already believe in the equality of the poor, and even more so in the "good" master. Stop powdering the brains of people. am Engage in the economy, and not advertising rulers who supposedly think about the people. Rulers think about the people exactly as much as to prevent a social explosion. Everything else is creating an illusion.
  13. unknown
    unknown 30 November 2016 10: 13
    +2
    Remarkable phrase Antonov-Ovseenko uttered by him to the ministers of the Provisional Government: "Ours have agreed with yours."
    More precisely, and not shorter.
    Everyone was against Russia.
    By the way, the phrase "Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov" was introduced into circulation by Gorky in 1920. Before that, Nikolai Karpov, aka Lenin, figured everywhere.
    1. Velizariy
      Velizariy 30 November 2016 10: 53
      +2
      History is a fait accompli and the Bolsheviks no longer have power and come to naught. Soon they will not be left at all.
      We need to stop dividing our people into red and white. After all, it is said: "Every kingdom that is divided in itself will be empty, and any city or house that is divided in itself will not stand."
      1. Monarchist
        Monarchist 30 November 2016 14: 14
        0
        Belisarius, the Bolsheviks in the classical sense have long been gone. In fact, as far back as 1918, when the party was renamed the RCP (B.).
        The present communists are far from being single: K PRF, VKP (b), the Russian Communist Party and, what else. The Communist Party does not have unity in the past either: some members of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation do not transfer the name of Stalin to the spirit, while others vice versa.
        Please note that Zyuganov cleverly avoids this topic, and if necessary, he does it with vague phrases "the party condemned or corrected", etc.
        1. Velizariy
          Velizariy 30 November 2016 14: 20
          +1
          Sorry dear, but delving into the grades ... I do not want to. You understood who it was about without clarification, and the meaning of what was said does not change.
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 30 November 2016 17: 28
            +1
            Quote: Monarchist
            Belisarius, the Bolsheviks in the classical sense have long been gone.

            Quote: Velizariy
            Sorry dear, but delving into the grades ... I do not want to. You understood who it was about without clarification, and the meaning of what was said does not change.

            "... Bon soir, madam ... Where is lorgnette, dear? ..
            ... Prince, you are so sweet! .. Baroness, I am melting! ..
            ... Today at the Mariinsky they gave "La Sylphide" ...
            ... Ah, tre bien, mon sher, tre bien.
            Ah, tre bien, mon cher, tre bien. "
            Timur Shaov. "Minuet"
  14. runway
    runway 30 November 2016 10: 49
    +8
    Masons, government, industrialists ...., only about the PEOPLE not half a word.
    The genius of V.I. Lenin lies in the fact that his teaching was understandable to MOST. It organized and raised people to fight for their bright future and the future of their children. Hence the MASS heroism, the victory over the Entente, the unique achievements in science and work, the victory over fascist Germany and its minions.
    There have always been plenty of enemies in Russia. Both external and internal. Today they believe that it is their time to erase from memory all the blessings that the PEOPLE have won in a selfless struggle. Our current leaders are trying to prove that everything Soviet is wrong. Hence the articles, like this and the spontaneous renaming of cities and streets, the sticking of memorial plaques to the executioners of our people.
    Citizens! Be carefull!
    "Any revolution is worth something only if it knows how to defend itself ..."
    VI Lenin.
    1. marline
      marline 30 November 2016 11: 47
      +5
      Dear Mikhail, you distort.
      Quote: piston
      The genius of V.I. Lenin lies in the fact that his teaching was understandable to MOST.

      But comrades K. Marx and F. Engels nothing to do with?
      Or by teaching you mean slogans like: "Rob the loot", "Take away and divide everything" - which are probably really understandable to the majority.
      Quote: piston
      It organized and raised people to fight for their bright future and the future of their children. Hence the MASS heroism, the victory over the Entente, the unique achievements in science and work ...

      Before the Soviet regime and the teachings of Lenin, there was no heroism, no victories, no achievements. Everything is wretched and wretched.
      Quote: piston
      Our current leaders are trying to prove that everything Soviet is wrong.

      Really? Here is a quote from V. Putin: «He who does not regret the collapse of the USSR has no heart. And the one who wants to restore it in its previous form does not have a head ”
      Do not distort.
    2. Hapfri
      Hapfri 4 December 2016 13: 45
      +2
      The genius of V.I. Lenin lies in the fact that his teaching was understandable to MOST.

      Of course, the desire to rob a prosperous neighbor is clear to every gopnik and will find a response in the soul of every hegemon
  15. marline
    marline 30 November 2016 11: 07
    +5
    Article minus.
    First, from an article titled "Was Lenin a German Spy?" - consideration of this particular issue was expected, but only 2 (two !!!) paragraphs at the end of the article are devoted to it - and those pink water: he took money, but was not an agent. In principle, I agree, but maybe it would be worthwhile to consider this question more seriously: why not?
    Secondly, 95% of the article is idle talk about how the "poor tsar" was thrown off - here the author mixed up everything, just all the liberal and soviet versions on the topic of who sold whom and when. Maybe then it was worth calling the article: "Who staged the February revolution"
    And thirdly, once again about the Masons and the world ZOG conspiracy which is paid more attention to than Lenin: the world is ruled not by a secret box, but by a clear mess.
    My respect to the author.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 30 November 2016 13: 49
      +1
      Merlin, You are right that the article could be called differently, but here the copyright does something.
      If you wish, write another work on this topic.
      1. marline
        marline 30 November 2016 14: 00
        +3
        Monarchist, you apparently misunderstood me, I have no complaints about the author. On the contrary, he writes articles and creates content that we have the opportunity to read and discuss - for which I respect him and respect me.
        But specifically, I did not like this article and I wrote why, because it was precisely for this that the forum administrators called on us when they removed the opportunity to express their disagreement by voting.
      2. CorvusCoraks
        CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 16: 30
        0
        Merlin is right, the title of the article does not match the content. 90% of the article about the February revolution, who organized it and that they were all so blame for everything, that already Lenin forced another revolution to stir up, and there is evidence that it’s not a spy.
  16. Fox
    Fox 30 November 2016 11: 20
    +7
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    Strange, but those of my friends who lived in the USSR spoke about leveling, and I have no reason not to trust them.

    oh how! I myself didn’t see it, but they told me ... handsome zhzhot!
    has the tzatzek already hung on the stripes, clown?
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 30 November 2016 13: 05
      +6
      But you can’t do without insults? Or is it a trademark of all fans of the USSR? lol
      1. marline
        marline 30 November 2016 13: 17
        +2
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        But you can’t do without insults? Or is it a trademark of all fans of the USSR? lol

        What are you ?! They were brought up like that under the Soviet regime. They wanted the best, but it turned out ... how it happened.
        1. novel66
          novel66 30 November 2016 15: 35
          +5
          There was no special leveling, except that the salary of the minister was not ten times higher than the salary of the teacher.
          1. novel66
            novel66 30 November 2016 15: 36
            +5
            and, yes, the Soviet government raised me. any questions?
          2. marline
            marline 30 November 2016 17: 33
            +3
            Quote: novel xnumx
            there was no special leveling ...

            Did you go to school in jeans and shoulder-length hair? Cool!
            1. novel66
              novel66 30 November 2016 21: 57
              +5
              I was never soared by the lack of jeans, there were other interests, and my hair was long before the military department at the institute
              1. marline
                marline 1 December 2016 09: 09
                +2
                Quote: novel xnumx
                I was never soared by the lack of jeans, there were other interests, and my hair was long before the military department at the institute

                Roman, so you are a child of glasnost and perestroika and did not find the times when the Beatles were banned?
                1. novel66
                  novel66 1 December 2016 09: 23
                  +4
                  I’m not a child of glasnost and perestroika, I already studied at the institute, then any music could already be obtained, and, yes, I think that it was a big mistake, developing the means of production, I do not care about those who produce them, if the state considered it possible turn to people more attractive side - there would be no 91 years
                  1. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 09: 43
                    +1
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    and, yes, I think that it was a big mistake, developing the means of production, to spit on those who produce them, if the state considered it possible to turn to the people with a more attractive side - there wouldn’t be 91 of the year

                    Here you are absolutely right, but the party nomenclature has decided that this is superfluous.
                    I would also add that there was no need to rush sharply from one extreme to another: from “developed socialism” to “capitalism”, but such professional “combiners” then ruled the country.
                2. murriou
                  murriou 1 December 2016 10: 30
                  +4
                  Quote: merlin
                  didn’t find the times when the Beatles were banned?

                  Have you found it? Tell me about them! laughing

                  Explain to me that I had hallucinations when I put the Beatles on school evenings first on the records of the magazine "Krugozor", officially published in the USSR, and on vinyl, when "Melody" released records with songs "music by P. McCartney, words by J. Lennon, in English ", and danced with classmates to" And I love Her "or" A Taste of Honey ".

                  Then, on my own tape recorder, when I appeared in high school, I put together an almost complete collection of Beatles albums, and a lot of other music - supposedly forbidden in your alternative universe. laughing

                  And at the disco at the Moscow State University, which just didn’t sound, the latest hits there appeared with a delay of no more than a week after their release in the original. lol

                  This is now the reproduction of unlicensed records prohibit migalkovsky copyrights. But in the USSR such problems did not exist.
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 1 December 2016 10: 35
                    +4
                    something like that, noticed right hi
                  2. marline
                    marline 1 December 2016 12: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: murriou
                    Explain to me that I had hallucinations when I put the Beatles on school evenings at first on the records of the magazine "Krugozor ..

                    I don’t remember that I had such records in the 67, but the director tore me the cassettes when I turned them on during school breaks)))
                    1. murriou
                      murriou 1 December 2016 12: 52
                      +3
                      No luck with the director crying I'm sorry.

                      But you didn’t bring me any documents prohibiting the Beatles in the USSR. And the presence of records with Beatles records is sufficient evidence that there were no prohibitions.
                      This is a 1967 record, and in the early 70's their whole shaft fell.


                      So, "Congratulations, citizen, you lie" (C)

                      Likewise, they lie that Vysotsky was banned in the USSR, and you can probably find memories of a director who tore films / broke tapes with his songs. But in reality VYSOTSKY's records were officially officially released MUCH.

                      However, launching music without the approval of the school authorities is a rather serious offense, even if you launched Swan Lake. wink
                      1. marline
                        marline 1 December 2016 16: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: murriou
                        But you didn’t bring me any documents prohibiting the Beatles in the USSR.

                        So there were no official prohibitions) And why "sovramshi" ?! Poke your finger where I wrote that it was forbidden "officially"? It's just that "real" Komsomol members shouldn't have listened to such music, and if they got caught, then a meeting, kicked out of the Komsomol, then from the university, etc. In terms of securities, the USSR was the most democratic country in the world.
                        And you can search for devastating articles on the Beatles on the Internet, whoever seeks will always pay, I have no problem proving something to you)
                        Although in 80, of course, with this it was simpler and not so strict.
      2. parusnik
        parusnik 30 November 2016 16: 33
        +5
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        Strange, but those of my friends who lived in the USSR spoke about leveling, and I have no reason not to trust them.
        ..So you find yourself in the USSR and didn’t live? .. Perhaps you haven’t even been born? .. Or maybe you are still not a citizen of the Russian Federation .. and not Lieutenant Teterin, but mishandled?
      3. parusnik
        parusnik 30 November 2016 16: 42
        +6
        But you can’t do without insults? Or is it a trademark of all fans of the USSR?
        .. Lieutenant .. here you hanged the labels yesterday, such as Krasnofila, there were still minor insults .. And you considered it normal .. you are a lieutenant .. and the rest are nothing, you have the right .. but they don’t .. now the fox is the lowest , compared with you, in your opinion, it was unpleasantly expressed in your address .. and you are offended .. how probably you are a European, probably also an Aryan offended .. You really if you are not harsh to speak out to others, endure the answer. ..do not be indignant ...
  17. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 30 November 2016 11: 52
    +4
    "Later, documents about the transfer of large sums of money to the Bolsheviks by the Germans will be discovered
    through two channels - through Parvus and the Swiss socialist Karl Moor.
    But does it follow from this fact that Lenin was a German agent? "////

    ABOUT! Thanks to Samsonov! When I recently wrote about this, the opponent of "Bloodsucker" already
    saliva emanated from righteous indignation. smile
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 30 November 2016 13: 59
      +11
      voyaka uh Today, 11: 52
      ABOUT! Thanks to Samsonov! When I recently wrote about this, the opponent of "Bloodsucker" already
      saliva emanated from righteous indignation. smile
      Listen to a non-respected representative of a non-respected country, you are a Bloodthirster not suited to soles! And anyway, what did you forget on this site ?! There are no problems in shrail ?!
      1. marline
        marline 30 November 2016 14: 10
        +4
        Quote: Diana Ilyina
        Listen to a non-respected representative of a non-respected country, you are a Bloodthirster not suited to soles! And anyway, what did you forget on this site ?! There are no problems in shrail ?!

        Well, Diana, they took and dishonored all Soviet upbringing and education)))) famously)))
        In general, how can one be a convinced communist, but not adhere to internationalist views? After all, any proletarian from any country in the world, even Israel, is your friend, comrade and brother, he was just unlucky and he is still under the fifth tyranny of the capitalists. So we were taught in the Soviet Union, but apparently not you ...
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 November 2016 15: 17
          +3
          You do not be offended by her. She often breaks the chain ...
          and then scatter! laughing
        2. atalef
          atalef 30 November 2016 15: 26
          +5
          Quote: merlin
          Well, Diana, they took and dishonored all Soviet upbringing and education))

          Quote: voyaka uh
          You do not be offended by her. She often breaks the chain ...
          and then scatter

          no wonder
          Diana (from lat. Deus - god [1]) - a female personal name, formed on behalf of the goddess Diana, who in ancient Roman mythology was considered the goddess Moon and hunt

          That's how it hunts at night.
          Probably because of this.
          As they say - as you call a boat - so it will float.
          Although in general there are options - I remembered the anecdote. (Of course, it doesn’t apply to Diana - this is in the afternoon wink - although maybe at night)
          A woman stands on the second floor and shouts:
          - They are raping!
          And on the first - the man is coming.
          I heard a scream and asks:
          - Who rapes you?
          The woman replies:
          “You.”
          “How can I rape you if you are on the second floor and I am on the first?”
          “I'm going down now.”
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 30 November 2016 17: 33
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            That's how it hunts at night. Probably because of this.

            Поit was going!
            They would have told better about Abram and Sarah ...
            1. murriou
              murriou 1 December 2016 10: 50
              0
              "two blacks walked in the desert, Abraham and Sarah ..." (C) lol
  18. timyr
    timyr 30 November 2016 12: 01
    +2
    Generally a strange impression of the article. It’s all true, only the author forgot to mention how much the Bolsheviks received from Karl Mohr-33 dollars, a drop dead donation and then the Bolsheviks spent them on holding the Zimmerwald conference and fraternizing Russian soldiers with German .. And about Parvus they gave him money, only nobody received them from the Russian socialists, neither the Socialist Revolutionaries, nor the Mensheviks. Parvus talked with different socialists, they say do it and I will give money. Only no one saw this money. But Lenin refused to meet at all. Parvus just pocketed the money. A huge amount of a billion marks in gold. Yes, they say they say through the Stockholm company sponsored by the Bolsheviks. Only it turned out Parvus just traded in pencils with Russia. After all, after the outbreak of the war in Russia, pencils ran out, the great Russia did not produce them, but bought them in Germany. Well, one more fact was that army accessories were not produced in Russia either, we had to buy stars in France for shoulder straps for 000 gold rubles every year.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 November 2016 13: 34
      +4
      The German General Staff transferred money mainly through Sweden.
      But the Bolsheviks took other money for "pacifism" as well. $ 33,000 at that rate, by the way,
      a very large amount. Not that now.
    2. Hapfri
      Hapfri 4 December 2016 17: 42
      0
      But Lenin refused to meet at all

      And who met on behalf of Lenin?
  19. demotivator
    demotivator 30 November 2016 12: 21
    +7
    Quote: merlin
    And the one who wants to restore it in its previous form does not have a head ”

    To listen to Putin, so only his head comes out. Well, and a few of his associates and supporters. And all the rest, it turns out, are headless. Only now, our everyday life every day, for the past 16 years, has been examples of the egregious headlessness of the authorities. It remains only to amuse oneself with the hope that "everything passes, and this too".
    1. marline
      marline 30 November 2016 12: 39
      +3
      Quote: demotivator
      Listen to Putin ...

      ... and scold later. This is called a settlement of words, by the way, it was also not under the Soviet regime)))
      And another president, Mitterrand, has already answered your statement:
      It is a pity that everyone who knows how to manage the state already works as taxi drivers and hairdressers

      PS For the future, try to answer after the message, and not at the bottom of the topic, otherwise it’s inconvenient, again the notification does not come if you, of course, want a dialogue.
      1. demotivator
        demotivator 30 November 2016 12: 50
        +7
        Quote: svp67
        Only this did not bring much happiness to Germany, Lenin outplayed his "puppeteers"
        So this is good! All spies like Lenin would be - Germany is bad, but good for Russia. What more could you want? But today they are blowing with all our ears that in the Kremlin there are only patriots and "lifters from their knees." But, as a result, the country is sliding into an abyss, the economy is on fire, the population is dying out by almost a million a year, no matter what sphere of public life you take, everything is failed. And at the same time, the authorities, we are told, are not spies. Who then?
        1. marline
          marline 30 November 2016 13: 02
          +1
          Quote: demotivator
          But, as a result, the country is heading into the abyss, the economy is breathing in the wings, the population is dying out almost a million a year, whatever sphere of public life you take - everything is failed.

          Everything is lost!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA .... What a horror !!!
          Have you looked out the window for a long time? Look - all Russian cities are in traffic jams, and not in queues as it was ... but it was - in Sochi people bought canned food in stores and sent home ... and remember the mystery of Muscovites: "long, green, smells of sausage"? ..
          Quote: demotivator
          And at the same time, in power, we are told, not spies. And then who?

          Under the Soviet regime, combine harvesters were in power and we remember very well where their hands grow from - a country like that ...
          PS right now, you didn’t comment on my message at all.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 30 November 2016 18: 30
            +4
            all Russian cities are in traffic jams
            Here is happiness! All my ancestors were miserable in traffic jams. Glory to the Great received the country with bicycles and will leave with the fords of the Kaluga spill. Are you serious or joking that for a person three hundred pairs of shoes and palm oil cheese are important. there is.
            the foreman’s business continued, and now the librarian is steering.
            1. marline
              marline 30 November 2016 21: 15
              0
              Quote: Gardamir
              Are you serious or joking that for a person three hundred pairs of shoes and palm oil cheese are important. there is.

              Is this a question or what? Try to write more cohesively than you are unhappy and disagreeing in my post.
              As for the cheese from palm oil: you turn your nose, and my old men, until the end of their lives, picked up all the crumbs from the table and ate - you want to say that this is a clear sign of satisfying youth? You snickering my friend, if the cheese does not go to you ...
              Quote: Gardamir
              the foreman’s business continued, and now the librarian is steering.

              So explain how in such a wonderful country the "combiner" became the general secretary?
              1. Gardamir
                Gardamir 30 November 2016 22: 09
                +2
                You snickered my friend, if the cheese does not go to you.
                During the war years my mother ate "nausea". But no one called it truffles to her. And the fact that our whole life is imitation and imitation cheese is a crime. because let it be cheese from milk or not at all. And then you pride under the communists starved, but now we eat inedible in gold wrappers.
                How did the combiner become the general secretary in such a wonderful country?
                as well as the librarian by the president.
                Should the Soviet Union be muddy if it didn’t get better?
                1. marline
                  marline 1 December 2016 09: 03
                  0
                  Gardamir, again from the beginning to chew bast? All that you wrote was written in your previous post. I have already answered all this. You have nothing more to say?
                  PS And do not translate arrows. You answer the questions.
            2. Hapfri
              Hapfri 4 December 2016 17: 49
              0
              . Are you serious or joking that for a person three hundred pairs of shoes and palm oil cheese are important. there is.

              And what is better to have three hundred pairs of shoes or to stand behind a single pair in a line of 300 people. What is better cheese made from butter, even palm or sausage from toilet paper?
  20. svp67
    svp67 30 November 2016 12: 28
    +1
    Was Lenin a German spy?
    "Spy" ??? Definitely - NO, because he could give out WHAT military secrets. But he was undoubtedly an "agent of influence" for some time. Only this did not bring much happiness to Germany, Lenin outplayed his "puppeteers"
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 November 2016 13: 37
      +5
      "Only Germany did not bring much happiness, Lenin outplayed his" puppeteers "///

      Here I agree with you. The German Empire collapsed, and the German General Staff disappeared.
      But Lenin won - he took power and remained in power.
      1. Velizariy
        Velizariy 30 November 2016 14: 10
        +2
        Lenin brought to power your fellow tribesmen, see the names of the Bolsheviks who came to power. And it was not the Germans who gave the money to him, but the Jews, namely the Jews, and this is a fact. And where is the homeland of the Jews? Correctly! Neither in Germany nor in Russia ...
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 November 2016 15: 05
          +6
          One of the problems of the German General Staff was - they didn’t take it there
          the Jews sad . Hence the straightforwardness of tactics, the lack of fiction ...
          Maybe with them the war would have gone better for the Teutons ...
          1. Velizariy
            Velizariy 30 November 2016 15: 17
            0
            The nationality of the "ATM" does not matter, the money belongs to.
            And the national and, most importantly, RELIGIOUS affiliation of the majority of Bolsheviks in key positions does not change from your "argument."
            1. murriou
              murriou 1 December 2016 10: 54
              +1
              Quote: Velizariy
              RELIGIOUS affiliation of most Bolsheviks in key posts

              Yes, tell us about the RELIGIOUS affiliation of atheists. laughing
              1. Velizariy
                Velizariy 1 December 2016 12: 36
                0
                Satonists are their affiliation.
                1. murriou
                  murriou 1 December 2016 16: 14
                  +1
                  Urgently to the nearest ABC book, to learn the definitions of the words "atheist" and "satanist", to find the fundamental differences between them laughing
                  1. Velizariy
                    Velizariy 1 December 2016 16: 18
                    0
                    Their actions in relation to people with a certain religion and shrines of these people can not be called otherwise than Satanism.
                    1. murriou
                      murriou 1 December 2016 16: 39
                      +1
                      You have not mastered the primer.
                      I sympathize crying
          2. svp67
            svp67 30 November 2016 16: 21
            0
            Quote: voyaka uh
            One of the problems of the German General Staff was - they didn’t take it there
            the Jews

            A man lives in his world, he does not understand that as a person of the wrong nationality rarely gets into the highest financial sphere, so the General Staff of the German Empire Could not get an officer who did not give birth in Prussia ...
          3. murriou
            murriou 1 December 2016 10: 53
            +2
            Modesty is a Jewish national trait laughing
            1. Baloo
              Baloo 2 December 2016 19: 58
              0
              Modesty is a Jewish national trait

              That's for sure. But it is necessary to note their cohesion, hard work, intellectuality. And all this is innate. They are so cute ... eh ... the words overwhelm.
              Just why do not everyone love them, even penguins? Probably envy, of course I envy. lol т
              1. svp67
                svp67 4 December 2016 18: 19
                +2
                Quote: Balu
                Just why do not everyone love them, even penguins? Probably envy, of course envy.
                even most likely envy, because they lived when the penguins were not yet ...
    2. Hapfri
      Hapfri 4 December 2016 17: 53
      +1
      Lenin outplayed his "puppeteers"
      Lenin rode his head in the 21st. The RSFSR in that era was a complete wreck with wild inflation and zero production of anything
  21. loaln
    loaln 30 November 2016 12: 36
    +1
    Actually, today's people are more interested in the same question only about people who actively participated in the coup d'etat of the 1987-1990s in our country, as well as who are steering the economy (or rather, a miserable parody of it) today. Yes, and Germany can not be limited.
    How is such an offer? Or in the toilet immediately wanted to? This is not chewing on historical decay.
  22. Operator
    Operator 30 November 2016 12: 49
    +6
    Communists are part of a global project of rootless cosmopolitans. Their leaders K. Marx (Mordechai) and V. Lenin (Blank) many times in their books have expressed their intention to destroy the Russian people.

    To this end, in 1922, they dismembered Russia along ethnic lines into confederate "Soviet" republics with the right to secede from it, together with the Germans created an artificial people "Ukrainians", organized the collapse of the country in 1991.

    The only place to live for the ideological followers of Mordechai and Blanca is Israel.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 November 2016 13: 40
      +6
      Something you have already slipped into a completely anti-Semitic condo sad .
      Even a member of the forum "quilted jacket" does not come down to this.
      1. Operator
        Operator 30 November 2016 14: 05
        +3
        And where is anti-Semitism?

        It is unlikely that the local cosmopolitan Diana Ilyina would have a middle name Mordekhaevna and the surname Blank (before marriage), although what the hell is not joking.

        I simply suggest that all fans of communist ideology and the USSR change their place of residence and implement their globalist project in the state of Israel. No one will blame them for anti-Semitism.

        And we Russians are good, and you Israelis cannot be ill laughing
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 30 November 2016 15: 15
          +5
          "fans of communist ideology and the USSR to change their place of residence
          and implement your globalist project in the state of Israel "////

          As it was in some funny movie: "Thank you, we'll stand on foot!"

          The Blank family, by the way, were baptized (in the Protestant faith) long before moving to Russia
          and mixed with the Germans (Jews from Germany, the Russian Empire did not accept). But in Russia
          went, as everyone did, into Orthodoxy.
          So, perhaps, Vladimir Ilyich had no less German roots than Jewish ones.
          Not to mention the Kalmyk-Russian blood of his father. That man was!
          (although I do not belong to his fans negative )
          1. Operator
            Operator 30 November 2016 17: 04
            +5
            Karl Mordechai and Vladimir Blank in their written documents somehow neither Jews nor Germans (with whom they were both related), nor Swedes and Kalmyks (with whom V. Blank was related) did not touch from any side.

            But it was worth talking about the Russian people, as the founders of Marxism-Leninism literally went into rage. At the same time, V. Blanck (on 1 / 4 a maternal Jew, which is quite enough according to Jewish canons) vehemently attacked what he called Great Russian chauvinism - church, history, culture and educated Russian people, calling them the shit of the nation, while promoting leadership positions in the party and government apparatus, NPOs and the Cheka, the economic and cultural sphere, mainly of Jewish nationality, pushing Russians out of these positions.

            When issuing a passport in Israel, the religion of a person is important - the main thing is that his genes comply with the law (the so-called racial purity). In Russia, on the contrary, the main thing for attributing to Russians is religion.

            Therefore, it is proposed to all fans of Marxism-Leninism that Israel voluntarily move to the ideological roots of its Russophobic cosmopolitan teachings.

            The revived USSR as part of the Jewish SSR, the Arab SSR, the Druze SSR and the Berber SSR is just a song laughing
            1. Hapfri
              Hapfri 4 December 2016 17: 58
              0
              When issuing a passport in Israel, nevermind a person’s religion
              Not true.
              There are many blacks. From Ethiopia. The Jews
              1. Operator
                Operator 4 December 2016 18: 15
                0
                RS ё RёРѕРІС ‹- это РЅРµ негры ‹(РіР ° РїР Р РѕРіСЂСѓРїРїР ° Р •), Р ° семиты (РіР ° РІР No. СЃРєРѕРіРѕ РІРѕР »СѓРѕСЃС‚СЂРѕРІР °, РїСЂСЏРјС‹ Рµ родственники Р№РµРјРµРЅС † ев.
        2. Gardamir
          Gardamir 30 November 2016 18: 37
          +2
          all fans of communist ideology and the USSR
          read this nonsense and even looked at wikipedia
          The social system, the basis of production relations of which is public ownership of the means of production, under Krom there is no division into classes, the antithesis between town and country, between mental and physical labor is destroyed and distribution according to needs is carried out.
          What is bad in communism. A typical Russian desire to live in justice. And you, apparently, an ordinary Russian
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 4 December 2016 20: 07
            0
            Quote: Gardamir
            there is no division into classes,

            but there was a division into castes (the secretary of the regional committee had his own son, and the teacher of a prestigious university had his own, etc.)
            Quote: Gardamir
            the opposition between city and village is destroyed

            What is it like? in the village they stopped working, and in the city there is nothing to eat, so workers and employees of the research institute spend two months in the "battle for the next harvest" ??
            Quote: Gardamir
            the antithesis between mental and physical labor is destroyed
            this is when you can not think (the state will give everything both education, distribution, and toilet paper) and at the same time not work (the state will pay anyway.
            Quote: Gardamir
            and distribution according to needs.

            and this is generally super !! Only for some reason, only the needs of the party elite were taken into account (special desks, special orders, special shops)
  23. Monarchist
    Monarchist 30 November 2016 13: 42
    +3
    If we proceed from the understanding that a spy sends information to the enemy, then Lenin is not a spy (he did not know any secrets). Another thing is that under the conditions of the war, Lenin's activity was objectively beneficial to the Kaiser.
    The author directly writes: “Vladimir Lenin was a practical man and took money, but he was not an agent of Germany ..” Rather, one can accuse him of lack of principle, but firstly he himself said that they don’t do politics with clean hands, and secondly, after 100 years we can assess the situation in a different way and act accordingly
    1. Operator
      Operator 30 November 2016 14: 09
      +1
      In the conditions of the war, Lenin / Blank, Trotsky / Bronstein and other communist riffraff were subversive anti-government elements on the content of foreign states.

      In wartime, these are uniquely put against the wall. The Provisional Government of the Russian Republic in this sense showed criminal negligence.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 November 2016 20: 11
        +3
        Quote: Operator
        In wartime, these are uniquely put against the wall. The Provisional Government of the Russian Republic in this sense showed criminal negligence.

        Here it was necessary for Nikolashka to put to the wall all those who temporarily supported, and not chew on the snot, and sign the renunciation.
        1. Operator
          Operator 30 November 2016 21: 30
          +2
          The sole, especially the hereditary form of power has an Achilles heel - the human qualities of a ruler.

          If his qualities, including intellect and determination, are at the level of Peter I, Catherine II or Alexander III, then the country maintains integrity and moves forward, if at the level of Nicholas II - then everything is vice versa.

          In this sense, the transition to collective governance in Russia (the Provisional Government) in February 1917 in the conditions of the virtual absence of power in the person of its only weak-willed subject (Nicholas II) was a blessing. Another thing is that the staff of the Provisional Government was only slightly better than its predecessor (violation of the principle of unity of command in the army, the admission of dual power in the country, refusal to conclude a separate peace with Germany in connection with the uncontrollability of the country).

          Despite this, the situation developed in the right direction - the holding of elections to the Constituent Assembly, the adoption of the constitution of the unitary Russian Republic (plan), the election of the government, and land redistribution (with this slogan, the Socialist-Revolutionaries won the elections to the Constituent Assembly in a country with an 90-percent population).

          The Jewish Marxist revolution in this process was clearly superfluous. Geopolitical opponents of Russia artificially stimulated it with the help of agents of influence - the Jewish Lev Bronstein and the Chuvash / Kalmyk / German / Jew Vladimir Blank. They led the October coup, since only they personally were in the money — the first with American dollars (which were transferred to him at the American embassy), the second with German marks sent to him through Stockholm.

          Behind both of the funding channels was the Rothschild Jewish banking house. The goal is the destruction of Russia as a single state. Working off the financing of the Rothschilds and relying on the Jewish majority in the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, V. Blank in 1922 pushed through an unmotivated decision to break up the federal state into a confederation of "union" republics.

          I. Stalin, who resisted this to the last as an administrator (it is easier to manage a unitary state than a confederal one) was practically removed from power within a few days of January 1924 after the death of V. Blank because of his "will". The country during this period was ruled by a Jewish troika of L. Bronstein / Trotsky, L. Rosenfeld / Kamenev and G. Radomyslensky / Zinoviev.

          Only personal qualities allowed I. Stalin to break the Jewish project of dismembering Russia.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 30 November 2016 23: 03
            0
            "Behind both of the funding channels was the Rothschild Jewish banking house" ////

            Oh, Operator, Operator ... you are completely sick recourse . I thought only completely ... people believe in this, but the epidemic is spreading sad .
            1. Operator
              Operator 30 November 2016 23: 13
              +1
              If I were you, I would be proud of such national achievements in geopolitical governance (we will deal with our cosmopolitans).

              To make you feel the political situation of the 1917-18 years - a well-known historical fact: the text of the Versailles peace treaty between the Entente countries and Germany was developed by two Jewish brothers, employees of the Rothschild banking house, one of whom was a U.S. citizen, and the other was served by the German Empire.

              You had human beings, not like the current ones (like Clinton and K) laughing
        2. CorvusCoraks
          CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 16: 49
          0
          and the Reds — the Bolsheviks and the temporary.
    2. Velizariy
      Velizariy 30 November 2016 14: 17
      +2
      If he took money, then he worked it out. The Jews are not stupid and think that they naively gave such gigantic sums to Ulyanov without guarantees and reports ???
  24. captain
    captain 30 November 2016 14: 35
    +2
    The article whitewashes Lenin and his lads, and the commentators apparently have a lot of free time to argue with the "Leninists". The people in 1918 supported the Bolsheviks, but in 1991 they did not. Why? Because the Bolsheviks deceived the people, promised a lot and did not fulfill it. Replaced by the nobility and the bourgeoisie, the partocracy and the "red directors". They made a beautiful life for the party elite, the children of our Leninists, I repeat all Leninists, lived and worked in our various trade organizations abroad. And now the grandchildren and children of true Leninists are in power. See biographies of Chubais, Gaidar, Medvedev, etc.
    1. Velizariy
      Velizariy 30 November 2016 15: 19
      +3
      Quote: captain
      The people in 1918 supported the Bolsheviks

      it is not true. The Bolsheviks lost the election to the constituent assembly with a bang. And then the people were led on promises.
  25. timyr
    timyr 30 November 2016 15: 28
    +1
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The German General Staff transferred money mainly through Sweden.
    But the Bolsheviks took other money for "pacifism" as well. $ 33,000 at that rate, by the way,
    a very large amount. Not that now.

    There are no documents on the transfer of money by Parvus to the Bolsheviks or other socialists. Parvus was talking with everyone, but as it turned out, he was not giving anyone any money. Yes, and this sho for the Empire which can be destroyed for 33 thousand dollars.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 30 November 2016 16: 10
      +3
      "And sho this is for an Empire that can be destroyed for 33 thousand dollars." ///

      Imeria fell BEFORE all German-Bolshevik money - in February 1917.
      Lenin was already destroying (for his own purposes) the republic of Russia.
      Overactive Parvus, by the way, vowed in his youth to fight precisely with the Romanov Empire, and the bourgeois republic of Russia was quite happy with it.
      1. PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS 30 November 2016 17: 18
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Overactive Parvus, by the way, vowed in his youth to fight precisely with the Romanov Empire, and the bourgeois republic of Russia was quite happy with it.

        perhaps, but here is what Lenin wrote:
        "The rich and the swindlers, these are two sides of the same coin, these are the two main categories of parasites fed by capitalism, these are the main enemies of socialism, these enemies must be taken under the special supervision of the entire population, they must be dealt with, at the slightest violation of rules and laws socialist society, mercilessly. " - How to organize a competition? (December 24-27, 1917 (January 6-9, 1918)). - Collected Works, 5th ed., Vol. 35, p. 201.
    2. Finches
      Finches 30 November 2016 16: 36
      +2
      Oh, how I missed this megrach! laughing

      Well, and for the better, because I’m looking here alone with a red circle with some kind of stupid figure ... like a dissident! laughing

      I would have supported Frantic Diana and other comrades in something, but I’m still carried away, then, I think, I’ll quickly be corrected in the round number ... laughing

      By the way, when I read Diana's posts, my imagination draws the heroine Mordyukova, in a leather jacket and with a Browning, with her sacramental question: "Who else wants a commissar's body?" laughing

      PS The article is interesting!
      1. Finches
        Finches 30 November 2016 16: 52
        +1
        I apologize! Not Mordyukova, but Margarita Volodina!
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 30 November 2016 17: 45
          +1
          Quote: Finches
          Not Mordyukova, but Margarita Volodina!

          Freudian reservation! lol
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 30 November 2016 20: 18
        +3
        Quote: Finches
        I'm here alone with a red circle with some stupid figure ... like a dissident!

        I also have kruglyash with a stupid digital, which is an eyesore for me. It looks like a gopher that the others do not see.
        1. Finches
          Finches 30 November 2016 20: 47
          +1
          Thank you for explaining! This emphasizes the humanity of the site’s leadership and tactful attitude to the person ... laughing
          Then, perhaps, our regiment, violators of the regime, enough, colleague! hi
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 30 November 2016 20: 56
            +3
            Quote: Finches
            Thank you for explaining! This emphasizes the humanity of the site’s leadership and tactful attitude to the person ... laughing
            Then, perhaps, our regiment, violators of the regime, enough, colleague! hi

            Violators, I think, is complete. I don’t see humanity. Feel like a complete idiot, against the background of the rest. sad
            1. Finches
              Finches 30 November 2016 21: 12
              0
              Sorry, in quotation marks it was necessary to take! That was sarcasm! hi
  26. iury.vorgul
    iury.vorgul 30 November 2016 16: 47
    +6
    Here is the strategic legacy that the Bolsheviks inherited from the previous authorities: a country tightly stuck in a tangle of insoluble contradictions, with monstrously backward unreformable agriculture, a semi-colonial economy, a complete lack of ideology, a rotten top and literally (literally) lower classes.
    Here is a tactical legacy: an unfinished war with a crumbling army, hunger, cold, stopped factories, agonizing transport, the urban population, which must be somehow saved, and the rural population, which must be somehow negotiated to take bread. And besides, the former "masters of life" who want to overthrow the new government, and dear neighbors, for whom the time has come to divide the country.
    Here is the operational legacy: a certain number of dilapidated state structures with sabotage officials who need to be forced to work somehow, and fierce cadre hunger, since the already few educated people, for the most part, unable to endure the “boor”, were on the “white” side .
    The Bolsheviks, daring to take power in October of the seventeenth, remained with all these centuries accumulated and inherited by them a bundle of problems one on one, without any help. However, they did not have any experience in government. The ratio was approximately the same as in the film “Vyborg Side”: did you seem to be in charge of the health insurance scheme? Yeah, you’re going to be the director of the State Bank. Something the Bolshevik elite, who had been studying social sciences all her life, knew in theory ... but have you tried to learn at least a mobile phone using the instructions?
    But these adventurers of the highest rank, not knowing anything about state administration, except fragments of book knowledge taken from everywhere, interspersed with the wildest theories, were not afraid. They took up a business about which they had almost no idea, began to do it - without control mechanisms, with general collapse - and managed to get the country out of bloody unrest and chaos. How - this is the second question. How could. What can you do, these people did not practice in the positions of heads of chancelleries and fellow ministers. They quickly got rid of any illusions, and this became a salvation for them and for the country. It is easy to criticize them, yes - but what else was the way out of the Russian unrest?
    For a long time I could not understand the reasons - why Stalin was so bowed to Lenin. Only five years as the head of state, and then mainly in the war - and whites would never have won this war. There was practically no middle class — the pillars of bourgeois democracy — in Russia, immediately under the thinnest educated layer, a sea of ​​illiterate, but by no means a dark people, brought to the limit of patience over two hundred years of European life, swayed. These people would never have accepted the previous owners — neither the landowner, nor the “Christ-loving” manufacturer, so the Bolsheviks, who relied on these lower ranks, were simply doomed to victory.
    What else did Lenin do? Indeed, there is nothing to talk about: nothing of the chaos that the new government inherited created any, but power, without losing almost anything from the previous power. There is nothing special about this act ... with one exception: it was impossible to do so.
    After the seventeenth year, Russia was finished. Her further fate is to turn into a bunch of small impoverished states, which the neighbors will then colonize for a long time and deliciously. The fact that it was possible to collect all this lies beyond the limits of human strength - it could only God's providence. And the fact that this was done by the hands of people who did not believe in God and despised Russia was also God's providence: so that we would be less ashamed of our discussions about “holy Russia” and “The Third Rome”. No, you can’t imagine such a thing on purpose: a great proud empire, perishing at the hands of its own elite and saved by a bunch of cynical adventurers! Frankly, they didn’t give a damn about Russia, but they got this particular country, and it had to be somehow kept in order to have a basis for fomenting the coming world revolution.
    Naturally, they did not observe the moral of soft sofas. At first it was necessary to fight off enemies, then build factories, make sofas on them, grow a generation on these sofas, and only then this generation, fed up with other people's labors, will bring the bill for everything ...
    E. Prudnikova "Lenin - Stalin. Technology of the Impossible".
    Now let the "gentlemen" deny it!
    1. marline
      marline 30 November 2016 17: 22
      +2
      Yuri, how beautifully you inserted a passage from someone else's book. How beautiful everything is written there. Do you want a joke? Soviet? You admire everything Soviet:
      Two friends meet, one another says:
      “My son, just like Karl Marx.”
      - How is that?
      - That writes, now reads, then writes, then reads ...
      - I see, but mine, like Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.
      - And how is it?
      - Either in prison, then in exile, then in prison, then in exile ...

      You say that Lenin did not participate in the collapse of RI? And for what terms did he spend on prisons and links?
      Yes, I agree, Lenin and Stalin - were brilliant leaders, but they were people and "mowed" the same as ordinary people. There is no need to deify them, make idols out of them and worship.
      Take an example from the people of science - any physicist will tell you that Einstein is a genius, not even a GENIUS !!! and immediately tell a couple of cases when he was seriously mistaken.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 30 November 2016 18: 42
        +2
        You say that Lenin did not participate in the collapse of RI? And for what he wound the terms in prisons and links
        That Yeltsin did not shake the terms ...
        1. marline
          marline 30 November 2016 21: 17
          +2
          Quote: Gardamir
          That Yeltsin did not shake the terms ...

          And you, Gardamir, in addition to translating arrows, do you have any other discussion skills?
      2. Hapfri
        Hapfri 30 November 2016 20: 17
        +3
        Yes, I agree, Lenin and Stalin - were brilliant leaders, but they were people and "mowed" the same as ordinary people. There is no need to deify them, make idols out of them and worship.

        Yes, they were not brilliant and leaders. Caught at the right time in the right place - at the head of the country's richest in resources. Lenin had no idea how to govern the state. Nowhere did his ideas take root, the dead thoughts of a sick person. Stalin led with the help of fear. You can give it to a mountain of coal this way, but you cannot create, conquer the peaks of sciences and arts. They squandered the potential of the people, all the steam went off the horn. They did not build communism, but socialism turned out to be crooked. - A short course in the history of the CPSU. There is no evidence of the genius of these two peppers, except for self-PR.
        1. marline
          marline 30 November 2016 21: 41
          +1
          Quote: Hupfri
          Yes, they were not brilliant and leaders.

          Well, it's better than Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov for sure.
          Quote: Hupfri
          Caught at the right time in the right place - at the head of the country's richest in resources.

          This also needs to be managed. Many did not succeed. As for resources, they still need to be obtained and used and a system must be created to do this. And they did it, no matter how you twist.
          Quote: Hupfri
          Stalin led with the help of fear.

          You are in vain. Yes, they were afraid of Stalin, but they respected him - all his contemporaries spoke, with whom I communicated they spoke like that.
          Quote: Hupfri
          You can give it to a mountain of coal this way, but you cannot create, conquer the peaks of sciences and arts.

          Again in vain. And science developed and art.
          Quote: Hupfri
          They squandered the potential of the people, all the steam went off the horn. They did not build communism, but socialism turned out to be crooked. - A short course in the history of the CPSU.

          Yes, in general, what they wanted, they built it, it turned out - society at 99% consisting of the lower-middle class is a unique result, the whole world was in shock and did not know what to do with it. True, then the Soviet people wanted to consume, and the possibilities of consumption were limited in view of the closed economy ... yes, you yourself know what happened afterwards.
        2. murriou
          murriou 1 December 2016 08: 42
          +1
          Quote: Hupfri
          Lenin had no idea how to govern the state.

          Yes, yes, just a few. For decades, he wrote books on economics, politics and management theory that earned fame in the world before the revolution. Where is he, such a dunno, to the forum troll and couch theorist who knows nothing and does not want to know about the real story laughing
          1. Hapfri
            Hapfri 3 December 2016 23: 47
            +1
            For decades, he wrote books on economics, politics and management theory that earned fame in the world before the revolution. G

            Try to study "Political Economy of Socialism", there was such a subject at the institute, and you will immediately feel sick. That's the price of all this writing
          2. veteran66
            veteran66 4 December 2016 09: 02
            0
            Quote: murriou
            just a few. decades wrote books on economics, politics and management theory

            writing books is one thing, and managing the state is another. Well, under Lenin, the country was in ruin? They only raked by the end of the thirties, while the rest of the country flourished without Leninist books on political economy.
            1. murriou
              murriou 4 December 2016 13: 56
              +1
              Quote: veteran66
              Well, under Lenin, the country was in ruin?

              Poor thing. The events of the Civil War are still classified for you crying
        3. murriou
          murriou 1 December 2016 08: 43
          +1
          Quote: Hupfri
          There is no evidence of the genius of these two peppers, except for self-PR.

          Yes, yes, the USSR with its achievements was not, all the archives lie, and only Hapfrey knows the Truth laughing
        4. V.ic
          V.ic 1 December 2016 10: 18
          +2
          Quote: Humphrey
          They squandered the potential of the people, all the steam went off the horn. They did not build communism, but socialism turned out to be crooked. - A short course in the history of the CPSU.

          Mr. Humphrey is clearly not familiar with the basics of arithmetic: from the exile of Leiba Trotsky to his assassination by Lysokukuruznik passed: 1953-1928 = 25 years. Of these, 3 years and 10 months. to the most devastating war in Russian history. Subtract them from the first difference, we get 21 years and 2 months. So much history has devoted I.V. Stalin to the construction of the world's first socialist state. Let the tests of the Soviet hydrogen bomb pass after his assassination, this is also his merit.
          Quote: Humphrey
          There is no evidence of the genius of these two peppers, except for self-PR.

          After the assassination of socialism, 24 years have passed in the USSR, i.e. a period exceeding the period of stay of I.V. Stalin in power. The Russian Federation has shrunk to about the size of the Republic of Ingushetia since the time of Peter the 3rd. What are the economic, political, geopolitical successes of the Russian Federation in comparison with the successes of the USSR from the time of JV Stalin ... Silence? That's it!
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 4 December 2016 09: 05
            0
            Quote: V.ic
            The Russian Federation has shrunk to about the size of the Republic of Ingushetia since the time of Peter the 3rd.

            so it is the merit of the Bolsheviks, and not the current leadership, although, it is also for the most part pupils of the Bolsheviks.
      3. iury.vorgul
        iury.vorgul 1 December 2016 10: 52
        +3
        Dear Merlin.
        First, I did not insert a passage from someone else's book, but quoted. These are two big differences.
        Secondly, neither E. A. Prudnikova in her book, nor I after her, affirm that Lenin did not participate in the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia. Participated. But it was not he who collapsed, or rather, not only he, but the Octobrists, Cadets, Socialist Revolutionaries of all stripes, the Mensheviks, Bolsheviks, Germans, allies (from the British and French to Serbs) and others. Also, a great effort in the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia was made by a certain N. A. Romanov and almost his entire family.
        Thirdly, where did you get the idea that I bow to everything Soviet. I could make many claims against the Soviet Union and its leaders. True, the Soviet Union could also bring me a lot of complaints. But he can not, died in 1991. Well, I will not be to him.
        And the last one. You write that Lenin and Stalin made a lot of mistakes. I agree. It was necessary to act in their place, as did, for example, Martov, a former friend and ally of Lenin. Emigrate and then point them to their mistakes. Then now they would not argue about them like that. No matter how they remembered, they do not remember Martov almost now. But the fact that instead of a great Soviet Union would be a conglomerate of small protectorates and dominions is okay. But no mistakes would be made. Sincerely.
        1. marline
          marline 1 December 2016 11: 23
          +1
          Dear Yuri, I fully support this post of yours. Regarding the previous one, excuse me, I decided that you are one of those forum users who claims that everything in the USSR was always cloudless. Once again, I apologize if I involuntarily offended.
          1. murriou
            murriou 1 December 2016 13: 00
            +2
            I don’t know in whose garden you throw cobblestones here, but I do not consider the USSR to be perfect and cloudless. And I know many shortcomings in it, maybe even better than you.

            But everything is relative. The current RF in comparison with the USSR is darkness and horror, and the USSR against its background really turns out to be somehow incredibly beautiful.
            1. veteran66
              veteran66 4 December 2016 09: 11
              0
              Quote: murriou
              The current Russian Federation in comparison with the USSR

              why is this comparison? Russia is a derivative of the USSR and until all commies die out, the new state will wait a long time.
              1. murriou
                murriou 4 December 2016 09: 50
                +1
                Why then do not blame everything on Nikolashka? lol
                And in general, what is there to trifle - bring everything with a kulem to the Cro-Magnon Neanderthals, we are all derived from them laughing
                1. veteran66
                  veteran66 4 December 2016 13: 29
                  0
                  Quote: murriou
                  bring everything to the Cro-Magnon Neanderthals, we are all derived from them

                  and you don’t distort, now who’s standing at the helm, who’s standing? Cro-Magnons with Neanderthals?
                  1. murriou
                    murriou 4 December 2016 13: 59
                    +1
                    Now (the last 25 years) at the top are: liberals, oligarchs, criminal elements, priests, and corrupt politicians, diligently waving to the above.

                    For some reason you have no complaints about them - everything is only to the Bolsheviks laughing
                    1. CorvusCoraks
                      CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 17: 05
                      0
                      Wow, only by age, all these comrades were at least born during the existence of the USSR, and many of them received education and upbringing in it. Did the current 45-50-60 year old leaders come from thin air? And what kind of great ussr was it, that there were so many "liberals, oligarchs, criminals, priests, and corrupt politicians who diligently wag the above." degenerated? What does this mean? About the fact that the system was ineffective once it allowed these comrades, some of whom were far from being the most part of the lower ranks, huh?
                      Let’s omit some territorial alterations, due to which they got a lot of problems in the present (take the same Crimea).
        2. veteran66
          veteran66 4 December 2016 09: 07
          0
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          But the fact that instead of a great Soviet Union would be a conglomerate of small protectorates and dominions is okay.

          why is this such a conclusion? Before the Bolsheviks, Russia was growing in territory and population, and then it began to "lose weight." Somehow it doesn't fit ...
          1. murriou
            murriou 4 December 2016 09: 53
            +1
            You're lying brazenly.

            However, for anti-advisers this is a common thing - the truth is something unpleasant for you.

            In reality, the "parade of sovereignties" in 1917 was started by the Provisional Government, and was largely corrected by the Bolsheviks, and after the Second World War, all of Eastern Europe became a Soviet zone of influence.

            Exactly the same, Nikolashka lost all the Russian zones of influence in the Far East and half sakhalin in addition, and the "commies" returned it all, beating the Japanese, who beat Nikolashka as a little one.

            But for you it's all a lifetime secret laughing
            1. veteran66
              veteran66 4 December 2016 13: 33
              +1
              Quote: murriou
              In reality, the "parade of sovereignties" in 1917 was started by the Provisional Government,

              the parade of sovereignty has not yet collapsed, in many countries it is still going on, but to promise national entities self-determination and to set boundaries, having snatched part of the Russian lands there, it is the merit of the Bolsheviks
              Quote: murriou
              Exactly the same, Nikolashka all lost Russian zones of influence in the Far East

              Russia sometimes lost the acquired land, but always returned it, and the fact that the commies lost it would never return
            2. CorvusCoraks
              CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 17: 12
              0
              We had different kings, emperors, someone better, someone niochem. Nevertheless, the princely tsarist-imperial system allowed the country to grow from hmm (I don’t even know what it takes to start) let the principality of Moscow be to RI at the time of the 1st World War ... Gradually there was a very steady increase in land.
              But such losses in the territories as during the collapse of the union, which the Communists had brought to this before, we never had.
    2. Hapfri
      Hapfri 30 November 2016 19: 11
      +4
      Now let the "gentlemen" deny it

      What is there to refute? How Finland lives, a backward province and how we do.
      Brazil, a colony with natural slavery is ahead of us in all respects except the bomb.
      As if imperial Russia would freeze motionless in its development. Brazil and India in chocolate, we are in the ass, thanks to you, communism. You bought bread in Canada.
  27. Hapfri
    Hapfri 30 November 2016 17: 10
    +2
    The myth of "Lenin, the German spy, will be created later."

    Did you take money from the Germans? I took it.
    The bawdy Brest peace signed? Signed
    Russia collapsed? Poland, Finland, the Baltic states let go? Yes!
    He also killed Mirbach. And paid the indemnity. Good myth
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 30 November 2016 17: 59
      +4
      Quote: Hupfri
      Did you take money from the Germans? Took

      Receipts where? Your spiritual brothers = Americans didn’t dig anything!
      Quote: Hupfri
      The bawdy Brest peace signed? Signed

      I got confused with Trotsky!
      Quote: Hupfri
      Ruined Russia?

      How many times has it been said to people like you: the collapse of "one and indivisible" began with the tsar's abdication for the oath to Nicholas # 2 ceased to be legal after his abdication!
      Quote: Hupfri
      Poland, Finland, the Baltic states let go?

      So they were all "under the German"!
      Quote: Hupfri
      He also killed Mirbach.

      And when did "Ilyich" make up for Yasha Blumkin?
      Quote: Hupfri
      And paid the indemnity.

      Yes, yes, yes, with the last money, I sold the last shirts and put the bra of Nadezhda Konstantinovna in the pawnshop ... Troll, are you still tired of portraying the village idiot?
      1. Hapfri
        Hapfri 30 November 2016 19: 29
        +2
        And when did "Ilyich" make up for Yasha Blumkin? / quote]
        JASHA is an employee of the Cheka, and not a silver-footed bindyuzhnik. The best friend of the executioner Dzerzhinsky
        I got confused with Trotsky

        In politics, responsibility is always on the godfather, not on the sixes. And you have a godfather - Lenin.
        Yes, yes, yes with the last money, I sold the last port and mortgaged

        If, so no, from the royal treasury, 1000 tons of gold, immediately began to ship as soon as it was seized.
      2. murriou
        murriou 1 December 2016 08: 39
        0
        Do you think he needs to * portray *? lol
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 30 November 2016 18: 45
      +1
      Russia collapsed? Poland, Finland, the Baltic states let go? Yes!

  28. timyr
    timyr 30 November 2016 17: 14
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "And sho this is for an Empire that can be destroyed for 33 thousand dollars." ///

    Imeria fell BEFORE all German-Bolshevik money - in February 1917.
    Lenin was already destroying (for his own purposes) the republic of Russia.
    Overactive Parvus, by the way, vowed in his youth to fight precisely with the Romanov Empire, and the bourgeois republic of Russia was quite happy with it.

    I apologize for the mistake, only you made the mistake of the Republic of Russia in October 17, Kerensky declared Russia a republic, and before that it was not clear what.
  29. GUSAR
    GUSAR 30 November 2016 19: 52
    +3
    Oh, Samson’s bumble!
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 42
      +1
      What apt characterization you found! Here he is a rich and powerful Russian language!
  30. RUSS
    RUSS 30 November 2016 20: 08
    +5
    Lenin took money from the Germans, but then got out of their influence, threw it to the nemchuru, sensed strength and was sold in earnest, Lenin is terrorist No. 1, this butcher has blood on his elbow.
    1. CorvusCoraks
      CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 17: 15
      0
      By the way, Dzhugashvili was gangster for the needs of the revolution and robbed banks.
  31. Old Horseradish
    Old Horseradish 30 November 2016 22: 28
    +3
    Lenin was an agent and conductor of Zionism. All these commissars robbed the property of Imperial Russia and destroyed its population. And now: the Komsomol oligarchs are also robbing the wealth and wealth of the Soviet Union. Along the way, carrying out the genocide of the people. Taki business, nothing personal. Handwriting alone. And the result will be one.
  32. Dok133
    Dok133 30 November 2016 22: 44
    +2
    I agree with almost everything, a solid article at the level of completed secondary education.
    There is an addition, already mentioned above by other commentators, comrade Lenin, the Bolsheviks, in general, all socialist and communist doctrines are also a product of the evil "masters of the West", yes, and comrade Stalin too.
  33. iz odessy
    iz odessy 30 November 2016 23: 30
    +1
    what was objectively little in the description of the history of both the USSR and Russia at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th was the logic associated with facts, the motivation of the ongoing changes based on the real situation, etc. there was certainly not enough "non-partisan" presentation of events. Lenin, just a victim, one of them, "the pendulum that went back after 1985. Here, calling him names, they themselves do not understand their zombie nature or something. In the fall of 1918, Lenin, as a real leader, ended and began to flow into a symbol ... until death in 1924, note, in January.
    Was it an agent, obviously to anyone who knows the story, no! Did he take money from the Germans? Perhaps indirectly and anonymously from the giver. This is normal practice for all revolutions, proven even in 2014 in Kiev.
    Nicholas II is the obvious "character of Dostoevsky's novel ... of the same name, who could not even save his family, what can we say about the empire and an idiot as a leader (Gorbachev is his reincarnation). With Nicholas on the throne, the empire had only problems and the end
  34. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 1 December 2016 00: 06
    +4
    For all descendants offended by the Soviet regime who slander Lenin, the Communist Party, the Soviet state, socialism ...

    The socialist revolution is an objective and logical process, it ripens in the bowels of the old capitalist society, it cannot be made with the money of the foreign bourgeoisie, because it is the grave digger of capitalism, and therefore the bourgeoisie itself. Who will cut the branch on which they are sitting?

    Therefore, no one Bolsheviks bribed, in addition, until 1917, they were not taken seriously as a leading force. After the February Revolution, only 24 thousand Bolsheviks left the underground, and this is all over Russia. Moreover, almost all prominent figures of the Bolshevik party at that time were in prison or in exile. They first began talking about them after the meeting of the Petrosoviet, when Lenin shouted the famous phrase "There is such a party!"

    In just six months, the Bolsheviks won the workers to their side, and the Left Social Revolutionaries (at that time the allies of the Bolsheviks) won the peasantry. So the October Revolution was a natural event, supported by all working people. Soviet power was established almost bloodlessly throughout Russia. No wonder it was called the triumphal procession of the Soviet power.

    The old world: the nobility, capitalists, landowners, bankers, clergy, reactionary intelligentsia did not accept the new order, and unleashed a civil war against the rebellious "mob." The old world, together with the whole world, financed and inspired the white movement and the white army to fight against their people. The bourgeoisie did not finance the Red Army.

    So the “democrats” think over the Gorbachev question “Who is hu ...?”

    What about youth? - It’s time after time. Very soon, young people will choke on current bourgeois pseudo-democratic freedoms and want justice, that is, socialism, and this is inevitable.
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 1 December 2016 00: 12
      +4
      Quote: Alexander Green
      ... it cannot be made with the money of the foreign bourgeoisie, because it is the grave digger of capitalism, and therefore the bourgeoisie itself. Who will cut the branch on which they are sitting?

      - you have a hole in the logic
      - any evolution leads to the destruction of the existing state machine and, consequently, to the weakening of the state
      - this, in turn, leads to a decrease in the competitive pressure of the bourgeoisie of the revolutionary country on the bourgeoisie of other other countries
      - thus, the hepolition in RI was beneficial to Germany, England and further on the list

      Therefore, all your other arguments are void. request
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 40
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Very soon, young people will choke on current bourgeois pseudo-democratic freedoms and want justice,

      Now he doesn't want to. I work with her and say - "does not want". And then suddenly he wants to? Why would you?
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 December 2016 17: 26
        +2
        Will definitely want. As soon as he grows up and is about to get married, and nothing works for him or her, they will not be able to feed a family, nor to learn children, and if someone gets sick .... even a pipe. And then we’ll think about how fair life is under capitalism: Majors burn their lives in entertainment and ruin their money, but they work hard for 12 hours and still do not reach salaries.
        1. veteran66
          veteran66 3 December 2016 21: 01
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Will definitely want.

          who will want it? Someone will achieve nothing by his meagerness and laziness. Of course, the Sharikovs were, are and will be, they would take everything away and share. At our factory, the boys already go to work in their own cars, some got apartments, in their years I could not even dream about it.
  35. murriou
    murriou 1 December 2016 08: 35
    +1
    documents will be discovered about the transfer by the Germans to the Bolsheviks of large sums through two channels - through Parvus

    Here you need an explanation that the author missed.

    Parvus - the person is very muddy, this is the then Ostap Bender. He tried to have contact with everyone, to serve everyone - not for free, of course: Germans and Russians, Turks and Bulgarians, Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, Social Democrats and Socialist-Revolutionaries ...

    After he was caught on the appropriation of party money from the distribution abroad of the works of M. Gorky, his reputation, and so dubious before, became doubtless. Trotsky wrote to him during his lifetime an obituary, Lenin openly called him a provocateur, other revolutionaries also began to shy away from this adventurer.

    Therefore, the fact that Parvus suggested that the Germans use the revolutionaries in subversive work, and achieved the allocation of German money for this, is a fact, but this fact only speaks of the naivete of the Germans.

    And Parvus himself probably settled the money. There was no evidence of their further passage somewhere, either then or later.
  36. pussamussa
    pussamussa 1 December 2016 09: 40
    +4
    Headed and saved the country from decay. Created a defense. He led the defense and defeat of the invasion of the Western horde, instead of meeting "dear guests" with flowers and champagne. Laid the foundation of the most advanced superpower. Yes, such “spies” must be carried on hand and monuments put to them, which, incidentally, did our people.
  37. murriou
    murriou 1 December 2016 10: 20
    +2
    Quote: veteran66
    The rest of the salary is not more than 350 re.

    Soviet 350r in Soviet times - it was a LOT.
    You compare the prices then, or something.

    And keep in mind that then the housing and communal services cost a penny, I took the Moscow uniform monthly pass for 3 rubles, the medicine was completely free, there were a lot of free sports sections, dance studios, etc. - everything was paid by the state.
  38. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 1 December 2016 11: 07
    +2
    The title is an article about one thing, the article itself is actually about another, as a result - again the Civil War of keyboards, ideas and words. But in fact, what to argue about - after all, the fact remains that they betrayed the emperor, everyone turned away from him, completely from the word. I don’t know whether it’s right or wrong, here everyone decides for himself, in my opinion the progressive development of the country is better than revolutionary upheavals that take millions of lives, including from hunger and disease, accompanying all these shocks. Another thing is that really the whole country already wanted this, incl. and the clergy, which was considered one of the pillars of the autocracy. The result itself is known - civil war, devastation, poverty, hunger, mass exodus from the country (including many really talented people who will develop other countries already) and the withdrawal of material values. As a result - tremendous efforts to restore the country by the most brutal (but, perhaps, really necessary) methods.
    And one can argue a lot and for a long time whether the autocracy was good or better than the CPSU, but the fact is a fact - and there and there a certain group of people, pursuing personal goals, did everything so that the country's peaceful development was stopped and the country plunged into chaos.
    And, yes, probably after February 17. the Bolsheviks really were the only force that was able to reassemble the country and revive it. Although they had more than enough errors, and the main one was that there was no reconciliation between different groups of people, which we see today.
    1. CorvusCoraks
      CorvusCoraks 12 January 2017 17: 22
      0
      Quote: Trapper7
      I don’t know whether it’s right or wrong, here everyone decides for himself, in my opinion the progressive development of the country is better than revolutionary upheavals that take millions of lives, including from hunger and disease, accompanying all these shocks.

      I absolutely agree.
  39. marline
    marline 1 December 2016 11: 33
    +2
    Quote: Uncle Murzik
    merlin you again fantasized, valuable meat I already poked you nose!

    Murzik, your pumpkin hasn’t grown yet - you yourself have messed up the prices, you should not blame others.
    Quote: Uncle Murzik
    I repeat once again. Salary was 55-60% of the total salary of a Soviet engineer.

    On paper, on paper ... In reality, in 80, the average salary is 200 rubles. hands (out of habit salary call) from all the engineers in the Soviet Union. Do you all understand? ... You yourself have repeatedly written about this.
    In general, Murzik - I’m telling you again, stop flooding and writing the same thing! I understand that this is not in your training manual, but it is better to silently keep silent.
  40. marline
    marline 1 December 2016 12: 15
    0
    Quote: Uncle Murzik
    merlin but why are you banning me, mister liar, the hat is on fire on the thief! so I am still writing here in Omsk you could buy meat with a little 3 rubles, depending on how you bargained! but no one who did not receive equalization, how you will work and you will get it! and 1.98 per kg of meat is the state store price! so let's burn about the equalization "Mr. sovramshi" lol

    Again from the beginning to chew bast? No, thank you, I'm tired ... Let us dwell on the fact that you lived in some other Soviet Union in an alternative reality.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 1 December 2016 12: 51
      +3
      Quote: merlin
      Let us dwell on the fact that you lived in some other Soviet Union in an alternative reality.

      The reality was that one loaf of white bread weighing 1 kilogram in Bashkiria it cost 22 kopecks, one liter of 76th gasoline in 1990 cost 25 kopecks. A box of matches (75 pieces) cost 1 kopeck. Prices = fabulous. Go to any Russian store and compare.
      1. marline
        marline 1 December 2016 13: 18
        +1
        Quote: V.ic
        Prices = fabulous. Go to any Russian store and compare.

        Correctly noticed! Prices are fabulous. I go in and see the goods on the shelves. And what happened in the USSR in Bashkiria?
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 1 December 2016 15: 26
          +2
          Quote: merlin
          And what happened in the USSR in Bashkiria?

          The famous Bashkir honey cost no more than 3 rubles per kilogram, i.e. three-liter less than a chervonets. In village shops it happened to be no worse than in city ones. And the products were natural, and not ersatz, as it is now. On March 8, 1978 I tasted the export "Siberian" wheat vodka, so it could be called bread wine ... The sausage contained MEAT, and not soy protein, as it is now.
          1. marline
            marline 1 December 2016 16: 42
            +2
            Quote: V.ic
            In the village shops it happened to be no worse than in the city.

            Well, yes, of course, canned food is the same everywhere:

            1972 photo of the year, on it: Sprats (by the way, later they became scarce), bottles of sunflower oil, some other canned fish, on the right - something like canned condensed milk. There are a lot of cans. But there are very few items. Several types of canned fish, two types of milk, butter, fermented wort, what else?

            And this is a typical photograph of a Soviet store. And where is the sausage, I see some natural canned food?
            1. V.ic
              V.ic 1 December 2016 17: 50
              +2
              Quote: merlin
              And where is the sausage, I see some natural canned food?

              Is it in the Canned Food section? Show a photo of the same store, only the "Meat, Sausages" section, the inscription "meat and poultry" is visible in the background, and the Maine on the left in the background is clearly not considering canned food.
              From the explanation "Photo of 1972 ...". In 1972, I was in my second year at a technical school. Received an increased scholarship of 37 rubles. 50 kopecks (the usual "stipe" was 30 rubles). A kilogram of "Doctor's" sausage cost 2 rubles. 80 kopecks Consequently, a college student could buy 30 kg with a stipend of 10 rubles. doctor's sausage and 10 loaves of 2nd grade white bread. A month at the very least could be lived. Take a current student of the technical school to your company for a trip to the store, buy 10 kilograms of "Doctor's" UMKK sausage and ten kilograms of white bread and compare with his current scholarship. Compare the result with mine. The bad thing is not that you are trying to argue with me, but the bad thing is that you do not represent the realities of that life, trying to object, having as arguments a false picture of that, quite happy life. By the way, education was free, and I think we paid 2 rubles for the hostel. 40 kopecks for two semesters (academic year). Bed linen and towels were changed three times a month, also free of charge.
  41. murriou
    murriou 1 December 2016 12: 31
    +1
    marlineAs far as I remember, as a student, I studied and remembered the prices seriously and for a long time, still not everything has disappeared, - 3.80 cost Vologda oil, real Vologda oil. 3.50-3.60 regular creamy. 3.20 cost "peasant" and 3.20-3.50 butter with all sorts of additives - herring, chocolate, etc.
    1. marline
      marline 1 December 2016 13: 43
      +1
      Quote: murriou
      still not everything is weathered - 3.80 cost Vologda oil

      I believe you, I myself unfortunately do not remember the price of oil. Yes, they just didn’t have these products in stores, and it was a little expensive to eat from the market so that no one would say.
      You studied in the capital, right? It was easier with food there - Vysotsky has a song on this topic, "A Trip to the City" is called.
      1. murriou
        murriou 1 December 2016 15: 03
        +2
        Quote: merlin
        Did you study in the capital?

        Yes. But my relatives did not live in the capital, and I visited them often. I didn’t go to construction teams. Been to potatoes in the villages. Generally. traveled pretty much around the country, and nowhere did I see the horrors that are now lying about the USSR.
        1. marline
          marline 1 December 2016 17: 00
          +2
          Quote: murriou
          Generally. traveled pretty much around the country, and nowhere did I see the horrors that are now lying about the USSR.

          Honestly, in the eighties at the sea I saw how the guys from Siberia sent canned goods in packages home, they said that they had nothing at all. Is it horror or not horror?
          And remember, for the new year in GUM no more than 3-x kg. sweets in one hand let go?
          And so yes, we basically had everything) where only was this "principle"?
  42. murriou
    murriou 1 December 2016 13: 07
    +2
    marlineI am not in a complaint to you, I re-read it - indeed, the wording was ambiguous.
    But, I risk getting into my own business, with Uncle Murzik you would have settled human relations too, it’s you who had run into him in vain, and not at me.
    And the ability of people to admit a mistake makes me happy. Decency doesn't mean that much.
    1. marline
      marline 1 December 2016 13: 48
      +1
      Quote: murriou
      But, I risk getting into my own business, with Uncle Murzik you would have settled human relations too, it’s you who had run into him in vain, and not at me.

      Dear murriou, uncle Murzik, unfortunately, will perceive this as a weakness and my recognition that he is right in everything. I already tried somehow)
      1. murriou
        murriou 1 December 2016 15: 03
        0
        Well, I'm sorry. I wanted the best (C) laughing
  43. marline
    marline 1 December 2016 13: 16
    +1
    Quote: murriou
    The system has crashed since Khrushchev ...

    This is not the one that under Stalin passed in the Central Committee?
    What is it that turns out: the NKVD caught and traitors, and they all this time sat in the Central Committee?
    Or as one famous journalist says: Coincidence? I don’t think so ...
    Quote: murriou
    But this is not a reason to equate the whole country, the whole party, with traitors.

    You know, my father-in-law was a party organizer - he made apartments for everyone, but he lived his whole life in a hut, with his family. It was a real communist, and all that I saw after ... you can not swear on the site.
    And I do not equate anyone with anyone: it turned out, as it turned out - at 17 they replaced the "bourgeoisie" with "party apparatchik", then at 91 they changed it back, or rather, the "party apparatchiks" became the new "bourgeoisie", and the exploitation of the masses of the working people as it was, so and stayed. Or are you going to prove to me now that a hypothetical locksmith Uncle Vasya from plant N participated in its management? And looking for "traitors", since you are doing this is the last thing ...
    PS I'm sorry to answer so, for your reasons, for some reason, does not want to post under your message.
    1. murriou
      murriou 1 December 2016 16: 22
      +1
      Quote: merlin
      for some reason does not want to post.

      This is a new site engine junk, I myself come across this many times. "improvers", DB.

      Right now, viewing the profile is fucked up.
      That the rating is no longer shown, Allah is with him, although it seemed useful to me to track the reaction to messages.
      But now that you can’t view your latest comments on all topics - it is VERY inconvenient.

      In general, here your apologies are not accepted, because you have nothing to apologize for wink

      But in fact - I have a feeling that we are largely writing about the same thing, only in different words and from a slightly different angle.
      1. marline
        marline 1 December 2016 17: 29
        +2
        Quote: murriou
        But in fact - I have a feeling that we are largely writing about the same thing, only in different words and from a slightly different angle.

        Yes, in general, yes, the feeling is the same)
  44. kalibr
    kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 30
    +1
    Quote: Uncle Murzik
    In the Soviet Union they knew how to value specialists in their fields.

    I never laughed like that! Just smart people knew how to value themselves!
  45. kalibr
    kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 32
    +1
    Quote: merlin
    at 17 they replaced the "bourgeoisie" with "party apparatchiks," then at 91 they changed it back, or rather, the "party apparatchiks" became the new "bourgeoisie", and the exploitation of the masses of the working people remained and remained.

    You word for word (in meaning) wrote what J. Orwell wrote in the 1984 novel - the moment where the main character and heroine read the Goldstein book. Look - curious!
    1. marline
      marline 1 December 2016 14: 03
      +1
      Quote: kalibr
      You word for word (in meaning) wrote what J. Orwell wrote in the 1984 novel - the moment where the main character and heroine read the Goldstein book. Look - curious!

      Vyacheslav, I welcome you. Unfortunately, this is life: ordinary workers really don't care who exploits them. To the credit of the communists, it must be said that in the 20s they really tried to organize "workers'" management of factories, that is, when workers at meetings decide what and how much the plant will produce, but it just didn't work out. Well, about collective farm meetings: in many Soviet films you can watch, but again, everywhere in the field, its chairman stood out very quickly, and he was not always such a person as the hero of Ulyanov in the movie.

      But you reminded about Orwell and, yes - you are right, in the sense - this is really Orwell. By the way, I myself have read it several times and I recommend it to everyone. There is a similar moment in "Animal Farm", I even found:
      Those who remained outside looked from pigs to people, from people to pigs, they peered over the faces of those and others again and again, but it was already impossible to determine who is who
  46. kalibr
    kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 37
    +1
    Quote: pussamussa
    the foundation of the most advanced superpower

    But something foundation was fragile, only 74 years old. Not even 100 years old!
  47. kalibr
    kalibr 1 December 2016 13: 47
    0
    Quote: murriou
    deserved fame in the world before the revolution


    Oh really? And where? Who referred to it before the revolution, quoted ... spoke of meaning? It will be interesting to find out!
  48. pussamussa
    pussamussa 1 December 2016 14: 11
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    But something foundation was fragile, only 74 years old. Not even 100 years old

    The foundation still cannot be destroyed. Only the top, the roof rotted and it was demolished.
    1. marline
      marline 1 December 2016 17: 08
      +2
      Quote: pussamussa
      The foundation still cannot be destroyed. Only the top, the roof rotted and it was demolished.

      Is it true? The foundation ordered to live long in the late 80's, when the idea of ​​"building a society of equals" was replaced by the idea of ​​"consumption".
      Please note that throughout the entire branch all disputes are conducted around prices, goods, salaries - what if this is not overlooked? And who and what speaks for justice, for self-government, democracy and similar ideas? The maximum that the Communists have is to blame for nationalization)
      1. veteran66
        veteran66 2 December 2016 15: 50
        0
        Quote: merlin
        And who and what speaks for justice, for self-government, democracy and similar ideas?

        Yes, you sho? !!! Well this is blasphemy, keep and not let go! We are not working women !!! And they themselves just whine about a strong hand and a club, so that someone would beat them on the head, so that everyone would go in formation.
    2. veteran66
      veteran66 2 December 2016 15: 47
      0
      Quote: pussamussa
      The foundation still cannot be destroyed.

      that's for sure, commies as they were, and remained at the helm and feeders)))
      1. free
        free 3 March 2017 22: 32
        +2
        for veteran66

        in such cases they say wake up you gray
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. free
            free 3 March 2017 22: 59
            +1
            yes it’s obvious they didn’t pass once you are still breaching here
            1. veteran66
              veteran66 4 March 2017 08: 31
              0
              Quote: free
              yes it’s not seen if you’re still here

              does not reach .... adieu! hi
  49. marline
    marline 1 December 2016 14: 16
    +1
    Quote: Uncle Murzik
    merlin that Gozmon's training manual has already ended, as well as verbal diarrhea! You have good sources of the comedy "Afonya" lol

    What words! What an expression!
    It is as a person who expresses it in such a way that I brought a source that will be understandable at your level)))
  50. pussamussa
    pussamussa 1 December 2016 15: 37
    +3
    Olga Dmitrievna Ulyanova, Vladimir Ilyich’s niece, wrote the book “Native Lenin,” which contains a family tree. Her paternal uncle is Russian from the nobility, her mother is Swedish and German. Many myths and falsifications are scattered after reading the book. Olga Ulyanova was an assistant professor at the department of Moscow State University. The book was published in 2002.
    1. JS20
      JS20 12 January 2017 17: 46
      0
      Quote: pussamussa
      maternal Swedish-German roots

      Well yes. Only these "Swedish-German roots" came from a fairly well-known place in Ukraine. Beyond the Pale.