Expedition to the ancestors. Neolithic colonization of Europe. Ancient plowmen among large stones

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Expedition to the ancestors. Neolithic colonization of Europe. Ancient plowmen among large stones
The main part of the illustrations for this material will be devoted to megaliths and ancient houses. Unfortunately, the most popular megalithic structure in Europe, Stonehenge, has become the object of all kinds of falsifications. To the point of statements that it was built today. Actually this is not true. Here is a watercolor by Lucas de Geer, 1573-1575. which shows how this structure looked at a time when no one would have thought of falsifying ancient stones...


Cyclopes do not plant with their hands,
no arable land is plowed.
Without plowing and without sowing
everything will be born to them abundantly -
White barley and wheat.
Give grapevines
Lots of grapes
and the rains of the Thunderer multiply the wine in them.

Homer "Odyssey"

Migrants and migrations. Last time we visited predynastic Egypt and found out that, firstly, the latest paleogenetic data speaks of a purely African origin of the Badari and Negada cultures, and secondly, that... dogs, it turns out, were not domesticated anywhere... then, and in the Levant.



The question of whether the ancient Levantines migrated to the Nile Delta and upstream remains open. But there is no doubt that they migrated north to Asia Minor.


Map of the distribution of megalithic structures in Europe. Red color – 4800–3000 BC e.; yellow – 3000–1200 BC e. Judging by the colors, the impression is that people walked and walked across Europe, ran into the Atlantic Ocean, there was nowhere to go, and they started installing megaliths!

On the Nile it’s one thing, in Europe it’s another...


However, what was happening in Europe at that time is what is interesting, especially since everything is clear with Egypt for the time being - there the annual floods brought nutritious silt, people noticed this and began to plant seeds directly in it, and then came to collect what has grown.

But what was the situation with agriculture in Europe then?


Stonehenge at the end of the XNUMXth century

Well, according to a number of British scientists, and they have studied a lot about the cultures of the Levant and their own ancient migrants from the mainland, agriculture and pastoralism entered Europe from the East about 9000 years ago. Then, 2000 years later, it reached the Iberian Peninsula and the Netherlands through the Mediterranean and central regions and, after a short pause, by 4000 BC. e. appeared in Britain and Scandinavia. Well, in the north-west of Russia and the Baltic states, people began to become peasants in the XNUMXnd millennium BC. e.


Stonehenge in 1911... Airplanes have already appeared...

Figures and Facts


Well, the chronology of all these important events in stories European civilization is:

7000 BC. e. The first agricultural settlements in Europe.
5000 BC. e. Agriculture in the Iberian Peninsula and the Netherlands.
4500 BC. e. Copper production in the Balkans.
4000 BC. e. Agriculture in Britain and southern Scandinavia.
3500 BC. e. Wheel and plow in Europe.
3000 BC. e. Megalithic tombs in Western Europe.
2000 BC. e. Bronze production in Central Europe.


And this is how Stonehenge was repaired in 1920, including using concrete! Photo from a newspaper of the time

As for the very first agricultural settlements in Europe, they appeared in the XNUMXth millennium BC. e. on the western coast of the Aegean Sea (in Argissa) and on Crete (Knossos), and by the middle of the XNUMXth millennium BC. e. they have already spread widely in the Balkans.

Naturally, people chose places with fertile soils and guaranteed moisture for settlements. At the same time, the basis of the economy of these settlements was wheat, legumes and sheep breeding. Viticulture was also known, and therefore winemaking, because one simply cannot exist without the other.


But today it looks like this - Stonehenge in 2007

Tell me where you live and I will tell you what culture you belong to!


What did European settlements look like at that time?

These were clusters of adobe houses with the same type and very simple layout - a fireplace in the middle of the kitchen, then a bedroom - that's the whole home. And such houses spread all the way to Hungary, but further north the houses became different.

Long log huts and dugouts were already being built here, and settlements of such houses stretched in a wide strip from the northeast of France to the southwest of Russia. The soils here were very rich, formed from loess, a porous rock deposited from dust particles during the Ice Age.

This entire area was characterized by linear-band ceramics with a cut pattern of spirals and meanders. Cattle were more important than sheep in the forest belt, but wheat remained the main grain product. The peasants did not clear vast fields, but intensively grew fruit and vegetable crops on the lands surrounding the villages.

At the same time, agriculture spread west along the northern coast of the Mediterranean Sea and by the XNUMXth millennium BC. e. reached Spain. In this zone, conditions were closer to the starting ones, and the original type of settlements changed less.


Stone circle near Penzance in Cornwall

There were most likely few hunters in the areas developed by peasants, so the rapid spread of agriculture throughout the loess zone was apparently partly due to weak competition on their part.

In other regions, gathering firmly retained its position, especially in the lake regions that arose during the retreat of glaciers - around the Alps and in the coastal strip of the North European Plain.


The most common type of megalithic structure in Europe is the portal tomb - a chamber consisting of vertical stones

Not migration, but borrowing!


There has been much debate: did agriculture spread with migrants or was it adopted by local foraging tribes? And for a long time it was impossible to answer this question with sufficient accuracy.

But now archaeological data and, most importantly, DNA analyzes of modern populations show that a certain migration took place and is noticeable in the Balkans and in the loess zone. But in most of Europe, the adoption of a new way of life and its material attributes by the former population prevailed. That is, people contacted each other and adopted modern methods of hunting, fishing and, above all, farming.

In other words, having tasted porridge from cereals, bread, and possibly beer as a guest, the ancient hunters were imbued with such reverence for their owners that they not only continued to supply them with meat and skins of the hunted animals, but also... they themselves burned out the clearings and planted grain ( apparently bartered from neighboring farmers for hunting spoils) and also became farmers!

And... they got a lot of free time in the winter because they ate grain reserves. And free time also means practicing art, making ever more advanced tools, and, of course, love. Why did the population of Europe begin to increase rapidly?

And here spiritual culture came to the fore in the lives of Europeans.


We also have megalithic buildings in Russia. In the Caucasus! And there are a lot of them there. It is believed that it is in the mountains of the North Caucasus that the maximum concentration of “stone huts” is located not only in Russia, but throughout the world. Dolmen* on the Zhane River


Another dolmen on the Zhane River. There are claims that there is a source of “power” inside, and this “force,” escaping from the round hole, destroyed enemy ships approaching the shore. No wonder, they say, the holes look out to the sea! And “it is believed that dolmens can be a source of low-frequency vibrations that affect humans.” For a long time my daughter and son-in-law stood near such a dolmen. But we didn’t feel any effects. We bought a souvenir dolmen made of ornamental stone and left with that!

Europe of peasant fields and megaliths


Archaeological data say that in western Europe agriculture appeared in the XNUMXth millennium BC. e., and here’s what’s interesting: simultaneously with clearing the land of stones, the peasants of that time immediately began to build crypts and sanctuaries from huge blocks of stone - megaliths. No one would be surprised if they built fences from stones torn out of the field.

By the way, it is precisely such fences that are known in Europe - starting from Malta and ending with Britain, they stretch for many miles. But in addition to such utilitarian structures, they also built megalithic buildings that were completely useless from a practical point of view.

They dug huge stones up into the ground, and then covered them on top with another stone, and got the letter “P”. Moreover, they arose in Brittany and Portugal, and the most advanced ones were created in Spain and Ireland in the middle of the XNUMXrd millennium BC. e.

Among the megaliths, structures with unknown functions are also known, for example, stone circles made of huge stones in the British Isles.


The village of ancient farmers Turo Rodo on a mountain in the Spanish city of Lorriet de Mar. View from below. Author's photo

Megaliths: why and why - there is no answer and not in sight!


Did people of that time have so much free time to drag multi-ton blocks of stone from place to place? Cut them down with primitive tools and pile them one on top of the other? That is, the obvious goal for us is to build something, but it is completely ambiguous for us in its original, so to speak, spiritual orientation.

What did the ancient megalithic peasants want to show with their structures, with what intentions did they create their stone circles or build huge “tombs” that were empty inside? Or did they simply have nothing to do, and they just had fun out of boredom?

Unknown! And it is unlikely that this secret will ever be revealed, because there was no writing then. And if there is no written language, there is no reliable information about the past.


Remains of a grain storage pit. Author's photo


[center]And this is how they used this pit! Author's photo
[/ Center]

Metal is gradually replacing stone


Between the XNUMXth and XNUMXrd millennia BC. e. important life-changing changes took place.

In the Balkans from the middle of the XNUMXth millennium BC. e. copper and gold are smelted and processed. Whether this technology was invented locally or borrowed from the Middle East is unclear. Fine artifacts from the period have been excavated from a rich Bronze Age cemetery in Varna, Bulgaria.

And in the XNUMXrd millennium BC. e. From the steppes north of the Black Sea, the advance of Aryan (Indo-European) tribes began to the west. With them, wheeled carts (as well as war chariots and more advanced weapon) and plows, draft animals, primarily horses, were widely used for the first time.

This changed the nature of agriculture. Widespread deforestation began, and flint deposits began to provide material for the manufacture of a huge number of axes, which in the XNUMXnd millennium BC. e. have already been replaced by metal ones**...


One of the Turo Rodo houses has been completely restored. A wretched place to be honest! Author's photo

* Dolmens – ancient funeral and religious structures belonging to the category of megaliths (that is, structures made of large stones).

** Surely many readers are interested in VO Göbökli Tepe phenomenon, which has nothing to do with European megaliths. And it will definitely be talked about here. But everything has its time!

To be continued ...
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  1. +2
    13 October 2023 04: 57
    Map of the distribution of megalithic structures in Europe. Red color – 4800–3000 BC e.; yellow – 3000–1200 BC e. Judging by the colors, the impression is that people walked and walked across Europe, ran into the Atlantic Ocean, there was nowhere to go, and they started installing megaliths!

    According to the first card...
    The impression is that in the territories of modern France and Spain, people went east and ran into either the climate or those who already lived. And not at all to the Atlantic Ocean. And the same with the territory of the modern northern part of Germany and the southern part of Sweden.
    Or the colors are wrong.
    1. +2
      13 October 2023 05: 51
      Quote from Fangaro
      The impression is that in the territories of modern France and Spain, people went east and ran into either the climate or those who already lived. And not at all to the Atlantic Ocean.

      The Atlantic Ocean is in the West wink
    2. +1
      13 October 2023 05: 54
      This fashion was already moving, moving, to the east across Europe. And it was born on the shore
  2. +1
    13 October 2023 05: 07
    And then there is an interesting text and photographs, some of which I have not seen before.
    Vyacheslav Olegovich! Thank you for the article!
    There may be mistakes, maybe someone will write that this is for schoolchildren only. Well, okay.
    1. +4
      13 October 2023 06: 49
      Dear Roman! Those who write like this will be, well, let’s say, “a little slow-witted.” Imagine that this would be a scientific article with a bunch of references, including cross-links, mentioning many names of scientists who say one thing, the other another, with references to other articles and a bunch of foreign language historiography of the issue. You would fall asleep reading the beginning and not even get to the middle. For materials “for adults” you should contact the appropriate magazines. But here we have online journalism and it has its own rules and its own laws. And... they were not invented out of nowhere. That's what your comment says.
  3. +3
    13 October 2023 06: 07
    It is believed that it is in the mountains of the North Caucasus that the maximum concentration of “stone huts” is located not only in Russia, but throughout the world.

    There are many more dolmens in Korea.
    Again, an interesting question arises: where is Spain, where is the Caucasus, and where is Korea. There was a cultural connection between them 5-7 thousand years ago. n. or is it the natural development of the rudiments of cultural beliefs and the simplest ways of translating them into architecture?
    I'm probably leaning towards the second one. It's like the pyramids in Egypt and America. There is no connection, but everyone and anyone is building pyramids
    1. +2
      13 October 2023 06: 21
      Quote: Tlauicol
      There are many more dolmens in Korea

      In Korea, dolmens are completely different from those in the Caucasus...
      1. +2
        13 October 2023 06: 38
        They are different everywhere. But most of them are in Korea.
        Yes, just as pyramids went through their evolutionary path from a stepped mound to the Great Pyramids, so did dolmens. From a simple vertical stone, to complex huge ceilings, and even covered with giant mounds on top. And even more: the stones are replaced by small cobblestones, bricks, and evolve into some kind of ancient Mycenaean tombs. They are really different.
        Another orientation in space: to the sea, to the stars, to the sun, to a natural object...
        In the Menga Valley, Spain, I visited a group of dolmens. So: one is focused on the summer solstice, the other on Mount Sleeping Woman (Indian, Mountain of Lovers, etc.), and the third on the second dolmen. drinks
        1. +1
          13 October 2023 06: 52
          Quote: Tlauicol
          In the Menga Valley, Spain, I visited a group of dolmens. So: one is focused on the summer solstice, the other on Mount Sleeping Woman (Indian, Mountain of Lovers, etc.), and the third on the second dolmen.

          Ivan, Ivan!!! And where is a photo?!
          1. +3
            13 October 2023 07: 36





            Oh, and you gave me a task, Vyacheslav! I'm actually on the same page with the computer)).
            For some reason, there is a 20-meter well in the Menga dolmen. When it was dug has not yet been determined exactly. I suspect that much later than 3 thousand BC.
            Pebbles up to 180 tons. 50 meter mound. In younger dolmens the stones are noticeably smaller and look like masonry
            1. +5
              13 October 2023 08: 37
              Quote: Tlauicol
              Oh, and you gave me a task, Vyacheslav!

              Sorry that's not the case. But you understand me too!!! There are photos that...I can ask you to allow me to use. And for which you don’t have to bow to museums and foundations “out there.” It's like finding a wallet at an empty intersection... Even if they can't be used, I'll at least look at them!!!
        2. +2
          13 October 2023 06: 53
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Yes, how the pyramids went through their evolutionary path from a stepped mound to the Great Pyramids

          But the question is why the early pyramids evoke admiration and technological controversy, but the later ones - not so much. An ordinary mound of stones...
          1. +3
            13 October 2023 07: 30
            Quote: Luminman
            But the question is why the early pyramids evoke admiration and technological controversy, but the later ones - not so much. An ordinary mound of stones...

            That's the question! I should have thought of asking this... I’ll write it down and make it an epigraph, if you do not mind...Then I’ll think about the answer.
            1. +2
              13 October 2023 08: 17
              Quote: kalibr
              Then I'll think about the answer

              More than one generation has been thinking about this answer... wink
              1. +1
                13 October 2023 08: 38
                Quote: Luminman
                More than one generation has been thinking about this answer...

                Let's think together!
          2. +3
            13 October 2023 08: 44
            And pay attention, the pyramids after the 4th dynasty were made using completely different technologies. A high-quality stone foundation, on top of which a pile of incomprehensibly something is stupidly piled.. By the way, it is not at all a fact that the foundation and the rest of the pile were created at the same time.. It seems that if we adhere to the official dating, stone craftsmen of the highest caliber appeared in Egypt like a jack-in-the-box level, and throughout one century - disappeared again, leaving no successors.... Does this really happen?
            1. Fat
              +3
              13 October 2023 10: 09
              Quote: paul3390
              Is it possible?

              hi Greetings, Pavel. “It rarely happens, but it happens often” (c). The loss of technology, even in the near past, is not uncommon
              1. +1
                13 October 2023 11: 21
                How can you lose the technology of carving stone blocks? After all, if they were done the way they assure us, what’s so difficult about it? Again, the bases of the later pyramids were made very well! So, like, they still knew how? There's just a bunch of rubbish piled on top...

                There is a strong feeling that much more ancient structures were simply used for construction. Just building them up as best we could..

              2. +1
                14 October 2023 22: 56
                Quote: Thick

                hi Greetings, Pavel. “It rarely happens, but it happens often” (c). The loss of technology, even in the near past, is not uncommon
                1) Changed the contractor
                2) "Kickbacks", "Cuts" (material assets) - and other bribery and embezzlement
                3) Shortage Time - the new government demands hand over the object for the holiday - builders work quickly, but the quality of work fades into the background.
                4) Losing technology is very simple - dispersing a vocational school - the old master engineer retires (the next world) - the next “engineer” (victim of the Unified State Exam) no longer knows what and how was done - the direct transfer of knowledge is lost.
                sad
            2. +1
              13 October 2023 10: 50
              Quote: paul3390
              And pay attention, the pyramids after the 4th dynasty were made using completely different technologies. A high-quality stone foundation, on top of which a pile of incomprehensibly something is stupidly piled.. By the way, it is not at all a fact that the foundation and the rest of the pile were created at the same time.. It seems that if we adhere to the official dating, stone craftsmen of the highest caliber appeared in Egypt like a jack-in-the-box level, and throughout one century - disappeared again, leaving no successors.... Does this really happen?

              Again, Pavel. I had a series here called “War, Gold, Pyramids”. All this was discussed in detail there. There should have been a book: “Pyramids without mysteries and secrets.” But it didn’t work out. It didn’t work out for me to go to Egypt. It’s very expensive. After all, you need to visit not only Giza, but also Sakkra, Dashur... and this... it’s completely dark. The historian guides with the motor charged me so much that no book would pay for it. But the articles describe everything in sufficient detail and there are answers to your questions. You weren't the only one who asked these questions.
          3. +3
            13 October 2023 18: 47
            Quote: Luminman
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Yes, how the pyramids went through their evolutionary path from a stepped mound to the Great Pyramids

            But the question is why the early pyramids evoke admiration and technological controversy, but the later ones - not so much. An ordinary mound of stones...

            Mother laziness was born!!! laughing
    2. +3
      13 October 2023 06: 51
      Quote: Tlauicol
      and pyramids are built by all and sundry

      Anyone who wants to build something sublime will build a pyramid. Imagine that it was decided to build a CUBE? One such assumption immediately becomes funny, doesn’t it? Even the mastabas of the ancient Egyptians had inclined walls!
      1. +3
        13 October 2023 08: 48
        The question is - how to build? Let's take Djoser's pyramid, like the first experiment... There is a good photo of Sklyarov, May he rest in heaven. Where the difference between the core of the pyramid and the subsequent layers, allegedly built during the reign of Djoser himself, is very clearly visible. Would you believe that the same masters did this?

        1. +3
          13 October 2023 08: 55
          Quote: paul3390
          There is a good photo of Sklyarov

          Fomenko and von Däniken are still missing here... wink
          1. +1
            13 October 2023 11: 16
            Does your passage somehow explain the difference in the masonry layers of the same pyramid? No? Then - what is it for?
            1. +2
              13 October 2023 12: 11
              Quote: paul3390
              Does your passage somehow explain the difference in the masonry layers of the same pyramid?

              Rather alarming. Sklyarov...
        2. +1
          13 October 2023 10: 52
          Quote: paul3390
          Would you believe that the same masters did this?

          Why not if they were rushed?
          1. +2
            13 October 2023 11: 18
            That is, at some point the pharaohs decided to admit that they were complete losers compared to their great ancestors, and for them, you can make a tomb simply by pouring a bunch of crap? belay what
            1. Fat
              +4
              13 October 2023 12: 48
              Quote: paul3390
              at some point the pharaohs decided to admit that they were complete losers compared to their great ancestors, and for them - can you make a tomb simply by pouring a bunch of crap?

              Yes! Surprisingly laughing The wobble of Egyptian beliefs is massive. And tradition is less “mobile”....
            2. +5
              13 October 2023 14: 03
              Quote: paul3390
              That is, at some point the pharaohs decided to admit that they were complete losers compared to their great ancestors, and for them, you can make a tomb simply by pouring a bunch of crap? belay what

              Sir Pharaoh's gold reserves have run out.
              1. +2
                13 October 2023 18: 23
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Sir Pharaoh's gold reserves have run out.

                That's exactly what could have happened.
                1. +2
                  13 October 2023 20: 40
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Sir Pharaoh's gold reserves have run out.

                  That's exactly what could have happened.

                  Of course it could. Under Djoser there were famines, wars, and diarrhea with scrofula. Or maybe they just didn’t know how to lift large stones up cheaply and cheerfully. Just put it down. And five hundred years later it’s like clockwork.
                  Cairo was not built in a day wink
  4. -1
    13 October 2023 07: 19
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    I don't know what needs to happen to feel this time.
    Assumptions upon assumptions.

    Does a farmer have more free time in winter? Probably another question is what kind of winter it is.
    The climate has changed so much over these millennia.

    And those who were good at what they did had free time.
    1. +2
      13 October 2023 07: 35
      Quote from Korsar4
      And those who were good at what they did had free time.

      This morning started with interesting comments and it’s nice to respond to them (...they’ll probably catch up by the evening haha). And I’ll tell you what. It was like this: I wrote a book from the “School Encyclopedia” series about knights. And I inserted several fictional articles there - they say, we are transported in a time machine to the past and we see. And everyone liked this reception. But... I couldn’t come up with anything similar even from the Bronze Age. "Expedition to the Ancestors", where there is about Shanidar and the Grasshopper from Babylon, is a happy exception and an example of fantasy. I could not get.
      1. +1
        13 October 2023 08: 04
        I caught myself thinking that even the textbook flood of the Nile, which was discussed yesterday, is not so simple.

        How quickly the way of life changes.
        1. +3
          13 October 2023 08: 42
          Quote from Korsar4
          even the textbook flood of the Nile,

          Now I’m sitting here reading about him. There really... oh-oh how. But more on that later.
    2. 0
      13 October 2023 08: 29
      Well, the chronology of all these important events in the history of European civilization is as follows:
      7000 BC e. The first agricultural settlements in Europe.
      5000 BC e. Agriculture in the Iberian Peninsula and the Netherlands.
      4500 BC e. Copper production in the Balkans.
      4000 BC e. Agriculture in Britain and southern Scandinavia.

      I won’t argue; I’m not competent in this matter. But what’s interesting is that for some reason not a single people in the world takes credit for the invention of metallurgy and agriculture to themselves.
      1. +4
        13 October 2023 08: 33
        Quote: Richard
        For some reason, not a single people in the world takes credit for the invention of metallurgy and agriculture.

        Because those peoples are no longer left, and we are their heirs, but only in the hundredth generation
      2. +3
        13 October 2023 08: 40
        Quote: Richard
        Not a single people in the world takes credit for the invention of metallurgy and agriculture.

        But because there were no peoples then! There were cultures. And whose are they - God knows!
        1. +2
          13 October 2023 09: 22
          I, Vyacheslav Olegovich, don’t talk much about anything else. Not a single people in the world takes credit for the invention of metallurgy and agriculture to themselves; all nations, according to their legends, were taught this by the Gods.
          1. +3
            13 October 2023 10: 53
            Quote: Richard
            among all peoples, according to their legends, the Gods taught them this.

            Well, yes... But what of this? We know that we are not gods...
            1. +1
              13 October 2023 11: 24
              We know that we are not gods

              Curious, from what sources do we know? And - who are we?
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, I remember Professor Preobrazhensky warned that before lunch you should not read archival Soviet newspapers and books by Gubelman - Yaroslavsky laughing
            2. Fat
              +2
              13 October 2023 12: 51
              Quote: kalibr
              Well, yes... But what of this? We know that we are not gods...

              Do they burn the pots?! Yes .. smile
      3. +4
        13 October 2023 08: 55
        An ancient Sumerian text says - when our ancestors came from overseas, they brought the knowledge of agriculture, writing and metallurgy given by the gods... And since then, nothing useful has been invented.... wink laughing
        1. +4
          13 October 2023 14: 06
          Quote: paul3390
          An ancient Sumerian text says - when our ancestors came from overseas, they brought the knowledge of agriculture, writing and metallurgy given by the gods... And since then, nothing useful has been invented.... wink laughing

          And among the Greeks, Prometheus told and showed everything. Well, except for the anchor, which the Scythians invented laughing . So who to believe? request
      4. +4
        13 October 2023 09: 15
        4500 BC e. Copper production in the Balkans.

        Although. EMNIP, the oldest copper axes were found not in the Balkans, but in the Alps. Scientists examining these artifacts were even able to accurately determine the copper deposit! In Southern Tuscany!
        This is an ax blade found in 2008 during excavations near Lake Zug in Switzerland, which was made more than 5 thousand years ago and is considered to be the oldest found today.
        a photo Die älteste Kupferaxt stammt aus dem Jahr 5000 v. Chr. aus dem Zugersee. Foto von Eda Gross, Gishan Schaeren & Igor Maria Villa / Archäologische Informationen, 2017

        The ax is 99,7 percent copper and contains only minor impurities of silver, arsenic and bismuth. Isotope analysis of the lead also found in the blade showed that the ax was made from copper mined in the Colline Metallifere (Ore Hills) mountains. The lack of noticeable scratches indicates that it may never have been used in combat. Radioisotope analysis of ancient aquatic organic deposits on its surface indicates that it was likely left in the water between 3100 and 3250 BC during a ritual sacrifice.
        And of course the famous copper ax of the Alpine “ice man Ötzi”.
        Ötzi's Iceman is the oldest mummy in Europe, dating back to around 3300. It was found by tourists in the Tyrolean Alps in 1991 at an altitude of about 3200 meters. According to researchers, the mummy belonged to a 45-year-old man, whose height was 1,65 meters and weight - about 50 kilograms. Supposedly, Ötzi was killed by an arrow that hit him in the shoulder and caused severe bleeding. Immediately after death, the man’s body was covered with ice, thanks to which it was well preserved. The clothes, shoes and tools that belonged to the man during his lifetime were also well preserved.

        Among the equipment of the “ice man” was an ax made of copper with minor impurities. Isotopic analysis of lead impurities in the product showed that it was made in southern Tuscany - about 500 kilometers from the place where Ötzi was discovered.
        a photo. Ötzi's ax in the South Tyrolean Museum of Archeology

        a photo Museum-accurate reconstruction of the Yetzi ax

        The trapezoid-shaped ax blade, 9,5 cm long, consists of 99,7% copper. The carefully polished handle, 60 cm long, is made of yew, and was wrapped with narrow strips of leather to secure the blade to it. There are also traces of sharpening on the ax blade.
        1. +5
          13 October 2023 09: 58
          And in 2005, residents of La Quebrada in the Argentine Andes discovered an ancient copper mask that forced the scientific world to reconsider the history of metallurgy in pre-Columbian South America. The copper mask found in the mass grave dates back to approximately 1414 - 1087 BC. The mask, 18 cm high, 15 cm wide and 1 mm thick, has holes for the mouth, nose and eyes.

          It was attached to the face using additional holes along the edge of the mask. Archaeologists believe that the ore for this 3000-year-old death mask was mined in the Hualfin Valley, which is located 69 km from the discovery site.
          Archeology does not stand still. Every year new sensational discoveries appear.
        2. +4
          13 October 2023 11: 13
          What is most striking about Ötzi’s equipment is not the copper axe, but the arrowheads, made almost using Mousterian technology.. But it seems they suited him quite well.. This is about the progress of stone tools..

          1. 0
            13 October 2023 11: 46
            And what about his well-preserved clothes in the glacier, and most importantly his shoes? This caused a real revolution in scientists’ understanding of life and technology of that time.
            Fig. Artistic reconstruction of the right boot. Top made of deer fur. Sole made from the skin of a bear. Lined with soft grass inside the boots.

            a photo. Detailed reconstruction of Ötzi's clothing. ArcheoParc Schnals Museum, South Tyrol

            By the way, there is not a single article on VO about this unique find. So the site’s authors have a wide field of activity.
            1. +5
              13 October 2023 14: 03
              Quote: Richard
              By the way, there is not a single article on VO about this unique find.

              Rachard... And you yourself, huh? Only 8000 characters...
              1. +1
                13 October 2023 20: 43
                Rachard... And you yourself, huh?

                I still won’t write a better find than this find on the Internet, and writing an article just for the sake of “being featured in the site’s authors is not my thing.
          2. +2
            13 October 2023 14: 31
            What's surprising about them? Progress does not move uniformly everywhere, and civilizations and cultures do not arise simultaneously. He had enough to hunt goats
            1. +5
              13 October 2023 17: 05
              Well, the stump is clear! It was enough for Neanderthals 100 thousand years ago, Ötzi 5 thousand years ago was enough, but for some conditional Clovis in the middle it was not. This means that in order to hunt a goat, it was absolutely necessary to kill it with a carefully crafted tip. Aesthetes, damn it. Oh well..
              1. +3
                13 October 2023 18: 34
                Quote: paul3390
                Well, the stump is clear! It was enough for Neanderthals 100 thousand years ago, Ötzi 5 thousand years ago was enough, but for some conditional Clovis in the middle it was not. This means that in order to hunt a goat, it was absolutely necessary to kill it with a carefully crafted tip. Aesthetes, damn it. Oh well..

                Hmm, maybe this is an ancient conspiracy of mammoths and mastodons against goats? what
              2. +3
                13 October 2023 21: 25
                Quote: paul3390
                but to some conventional Clovis in the middle - no.

                The Clovis hunted megafauna and they really needed "high tech" tips and they paid off. But Ötzi was under fifty dollars and throughout his long life he, like his fellow tribesmen, made very simple tips - which means this strategy for his conditions and time was also paid off in terms of the results obtained (he could have made a Clovis tip, but only out of feeling aesthetics).
      5. 0
        13 October 2023 20: 31
        But what’s interesting is that for some reason not a single people in the world takes credit for the invention of metallurgy and agriculture to themselves.

        Check out Russian/Ukrainian patriotic sites. Surely you will find it.
  5. +17
    13 October 2023 08: 30
    And there is another use of dolmens
    1. +3
      13 October 2023 08: 41
      [quote=Aviator_]And there is another use of dolmens [center]I am sincerely pleased by your sense of humor, Sergey!
      1. +3
        13 October 2023 11: 11
        And there is another use of dolmens

        So this is a classic - how blue the sky is Yes
        Three crusts of bread fellow
        A fool doesn't need a knife
        Put the yummy food in the dolmen,
        And do with her what you want
        Lam podudi podud, lam podudi podudy (c)laughing
        1. +2
          13 October 2023 17: 03
          The lamp went out, the window sobbed,
          There is a white, delicate spot in the frame.
          Epstein climbed - love is not a potato:
          Drive through the door, he will burst through the window.
          1. +3
            13 October 2023 21: 00
            The lamp went out, the window sobbed

            Sasha Sasha Black!!!! Few people today remember that this mischievous and mocking lyricist of the Silver Age of Russian Poetry died as a hero. Risking his life, he actively helped extinguish the fire of a neighboring house, he was very overexerted from head to toe - he saved his neighbor’s house, and in the evening he died of a heart attack.
            1. +2
              13 October 2023 21: 09
              I came across his poems quite late.

              But how succinctly the pictures are created.

              Son roars. Beaten for a deuce plus.
              The wife took the last ruble for her curls,
              A spouse killed by a bench and a gumboil
              Calculates monthly loss.
              1. Fat
                +2
                13 October 2023 21: 47
                hi Nu-nu.
                How can you not understand?
                Cockroaches in the kitchen, leaving stale bread
                We thought about it a little.
                Glasses are rattling in the living room, sympathetically....
                and dampness drips like tears from the ceiling
                1. +1
                  13 October 2023 23: 12
                  This appetizer in the form of saffron milk caps was in order. However, these traditions, to some extent, are still preserved in our country.
                  1. Fat
                    +1
                    14 October 2023 09: 55
                    I’m already afraid that saffron milk mushrooms and milk mushrooms will be added to the “forbidden list” and we’ll snack exclusively on pickled honey mushrooms smile Then, for sure, a lonely saffron milk cap will become the basis for initiating criminal proceedings.
                    How come the officials have absolutely nothing to do in the presence fellow wassat
  6. +5
    13 October 2023 08: 38
    Let's be honest - the dating of megaliths is trivial. Because there is simply nothing to be attached to. Well, how to determine the age of masonry? After all, even objects found nearby could easily have appeared there at much later times. So the entire scientific world decided that small communities of hunter-gatherers could not possibly do this, which means that we will define all megalithic structures as the Late Neolithic. But then Gobekli Tepe appeared...

    By the way, the purpose of all these structures is still unclear. Okay, there are a couple of stones placed on the butt, although even there it is not clear - why the hell? What about the Brú na Bóinne complexes? This is really colossal work for the entire surrounding community for many years to come! And what was the point of it? What did they build?
    1. +3
      13 October 2023 08: 52
      Quote: paul3390
      the dating of megaliths is tritely made up

      There is a science whose name is mineralogy, which can give the exact age of the stone. And the older this age is, the more accurate the result will be...

      Quote: paul3390
      the purpose of all these structures is still unclear...
      ...This is really colossal work for the entire surrounding community for many years to come! And what was the point of it? What did they build?

      What is the purpose of cathedrals? Their construction required a lot of time and huge costs. The city community had to tighten its belt to complete the construction. For example, Notre Dame took nearly 200 years to build, and Cologne Cathedral, with interruptions, took four centuries...
      1. +3
        13 October 2023 11: 07
        mineralogy

        What - can she really determine the time when the stone was pulled out and placed on the butt??? belay Seriously? what

        What is the purpose of cathedrals?

        Well, there you go.. Temples are a product of an already developed society, serving a specific purpose - to extort money from the population by the ruling church.. Simply put, it is a business project that perfectly recoups the costs incurred.
        1. +3
          13 October 2023 12: 21
          Quote: paul3390
          What - she can actually determine the time when the stone was pulled out and placed on the butt

          When a stone lies, it is affected by sunlight, moisture, temperature changes, etc. In addition, periodic solar activity and even supernova explosions. Knowing the algorithm of solar activity and supernova explosions, you can calculate the age of the stone. Well, if you put it on priest, the location of its surface relative to natural sources of irritation also changes. Knowing these changes, you can easily calculate when the pebble was placed on the butt. Well, and probably traces of some kind of tool...

          Quote: paul3390
          Temples are a product of an already developed society, serving a specific purpose - to extort money from the population by the ruling church

          Temples are a product of a developed society, but a pile of stones is a product of a not yet fully developed society. And there is only one goal - extorting money from the population...
          1. 0
            13 October 2023 17: 16
            And the goal is one - to extort money from the population

            Any business project has a concept of payback. Build a cathedral with the relics of St. Jorgen - and pilgrims from all over the country, and maybe not only, will come to you and bring money... A lot.

            Build Gobekli Tepe while puffing and farting - so what? At most, hunters within a radius of 50 km will present you with the thigh of an antelope, or the skin of a mangy wolf... Is it worth such incredible effort?
            1. +5
              13 October 2023 18: 11
              Quote: paul3390
              Build a cathedral with the relics of St. Jorgen - and pilgrims from all over the country, and maybe not only, will come to you and bring money... A lot.
              Build Gobekli Tepe while puffing and farting - so what?

              Hm. The question is reasonable, but... when cathedrals were built, a simple stone structure did not surprise anyone. The nearest baron had at least one such tower. So it was necessary to pervert.
              What majestic could the Neolithic inhabitants see? The maximum is a shaman's yurt. For them, even a couple of stones placed on the butt is the Louvre request
        2. 0
          13 October 2023 20: 24
          Quote: paul3390
          What - can she really determine the time when the stone was pulled out and placed on the butt??? Seriously?

          Exactly! Especially if this stone is marble. I don’t remember what it was, but I once read about it.
          .
    2. +1
      13 October 2023 10: 56
      Quote: paul3390
      But then Gobekli Tepe appeared...

      Let it be about Gobekli...It will be...
      1. +1
        13 October 2023 11: 03
        Yes, in fact - Gebekli-Tepe is unique in one way, this is the first structure of its kind, which they still failed to stuff into the Late Neolithic or even the Early Bronze Age, recognizing its more than respectable age..
        1. +3
          13 October 2023 14: 37
          Quote: paul3390
          Yes, in fact - Gebekli-Tepe is unique in one way, this is the first structure of its kind, which they still failed to stuff into the Late Neolithic or even the Early Bronze Age, recognizing its more than respectable age..

          Again, because civilizations do not arise at the same time, and cultures do not develop synchronously. Therefore, there are no clear boundaries “from Monday the Neolithic begins.”
          It has always been this way. And it’s like that in our time.
          Somewhere people were building pyramids, And their neighbors dreamed of killing a Capuchin. And then a big pirogue came, and in it were bearded people in iron clothes and with thunder in their hands. And somewhere a man is sitting with a digging stick, and an iron bird with bearded people flies over him
          1. +2
            13 October 2023 17: 07
            Complete crap. Similar objects exist everywhere from Ireland to Korea. And all - it is not clear on what grounds they are attributed to one time - the late Neolithic. Except for Gobekli Tepe, the Mesolithic roots were so obvious there that it didn’t work out...
            1. +3
              13 October 2023 18: 37
              Why do you think so? Many dolmens were built in the Bronze Age. Up to the times of Hannibal and Archimedes. The same Korean ones. And no one hides this. At least from me
              And the Neolithic itself is sooooo long
    3. 0
      22 October 2023 14: 02
      A simple calculation and experimental archeology show that no colossal labor was involved. Very rough construction with large elements, so to speak. Faster and cheaper than masonry. Tombs and defensive structures. On which, by the way, no effort was ever spared.
  7. +3
    13 October 2023 09: 29
    Archaeological data say that in western Europe agriculture appeared in the XNUMXth millennium BC. e., and here’s what’s interesting: simultaneously with clearing the land of stones, the peasants of that time immediately began to build crypts and sanctuaries from huge blocks of stone - megaliths

    This directly suggests a certain relationship between the development of agriculture and the construction of megaliths.
    The inhabitants of Atlit Yam on the territory of modern Israel also, as soon as in the XNUMXth millennium BC. mastered agriculture, they immediately began to build a megalith.

  8. +3
    13 October 2023 09: 45
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you say that we will never know for sure why these structures were created. But for the life of me I don’t believe that Neolithic peasants made from mud huts, with stone tools, without wheels, etc. rollers, pulleys, adjusting the blocks by eye...and so on - they built SUCH that in the 20th century it was even possible to correct it, and judging by the photo, it was impossible without a crane.. I’m ready to believe even in pyramids, but in peasants with wooden hoe and stone I can’t use an ax to build cyclopean dolmens
    1. +2
      13 October 2023 14: 01
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      But for the life of me I don’t believe that Neolithic peasants were made from mud huts

      Here was my article about Easter Island. There were peasants there too, but what did they cut down with stone tools? Not bronze... and they had neither bulls nor horses...
      1. +1
        13 October 2023 17: 10
        Moai are mostly made of volcanic tuff, a material that is quite easy to process.
        1. +3
          13 October 2023 18: 41
          Quote: paul3390
          Moai are mostly made of volcanic tuff, a material that is quite easy to process.

          So dolmens were not built from statues.
        2. +1
          13 October 2023 20: 40
          Dolmens for the most part are made of limestone - not the hardest mineral. I once saw a plot - a couple of Moroccans sawed a limestone block in a few hours... with a rope.
          1. 0
            22 October 2023 14: 11
            Why cut at all! They just calcified it. The material is layered, sedimentary. They stabbed along the perimeter, along the cracks that were always present.
    2. 0
      15 March 2024 17: 45
      So I just can’t understand why, precisely during the period of transition from hunting and gathering to agriculture and animal husbandry, people suddenly felt the urge to move and pile stones on top of each other?
  9. -1
    13 October 2023 10: 11
    Peasants built megaliths!? - what an amazing discovery.
    To carry out production operations for the design, processing, and installation of large stone objects, you need a high level of knowledge, a high level of organization and the presence of a large number of metal tools, as well as lifting devices (for example, blocks). No primitive peasants had the above capabilities, and they could build nothing They couldn’t do something like that. And they didn’t need to. And the population of the Western Caucasus was very rare, for quite objective reasons.
    1. +3
      13 October 2023 14: 51

      Report from the scene (crossed out). Approximate reconstruction of the construction of a dolmen.
      By the way, there are also natural reconstructions on YouTube, where enthusiastic people take and install dolmens like the Caucasian ones. Ancient tools and methods
    2. +1
      13 October 2023 20: 42
      No primitive peasants possessed the above capabilities and could not build anything like this.

      Conclusion - the megaliths were built by aliens!
  10. -3
    13 October 2023 10: 15
    Quote: KVU-NSVD
    I’m even ready to believe in pyramids, but in peasants with a wooden hoe and stone. I can’t use an ax to build cyclopean dolmens

    The issue of the origin of megaliths is inextricably linked with copper deposits and the anthropology of the ancient peoples of the Mediterranean.
    Read Kuhn's "Races of Europe" and don't read the authors of stupid comics, the various Shpakovskys.
    1. +3
      13 October 2023 10: 59
      Thomas! You answered the questions asked earlier better. It is impolite to leave unanswered questions asked in an extremely polite manner.
    2. +3
      13 October 2023 11: 03
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      Kuna

      Ay-ay, how wrong it is to impose American scientists on us. Forgot your comment in which you call them all bad? So this one is good, right? Double standards. Oh, how bad. Now I understand that your rating has dropped so much... People don’t like it when one thing is one thing in one place and the exact opposite in another.
    3. +2
      13 October 2023 11: 12
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      Read Kuhn's "Races of Europe"

      “All this is anti-scientific heresy of the so-called American scientists” (c).
      1. +2
        13 October 2023 11: 17
        What's not to like when you're stuck in your own shit? Hence the minus, right? Get used to it, I don’t forget anything to anyone. I remember who, even in 2017, wrote that he promised...
    4. +3
      13 October 2023 13: 59
      Problems regarding the origin of megalites, which are inextricably linked with copper deposits

      Thomas, how do you explain the fact that megaliths began to be built in the British Isles 2000 years before copper ore began to be mined?
    5. The comment was deleted.
  11. -3
    13 October 2023 10: 17
    Quote: Luminman
    What is the purpose of cathedrals? Their construction required a lot of time and huge costs. The city community had to tighten its belt to complete the construction. For example, Notre Dame took nearly 200 years to build, and Cologne Cathedral, with interruptions, took four centuries...

    The construction of large architectural objects requires a high level of development of productive forces and scientific knowledge. These conditions were absent among ancient farmers.
  12. 0
    13 October 2023 10: 31
    Quote: Tlauicol
    For some reason, there is a 20-meter well in the Menga dolmen. When it was dug has not yet been determined exactly. I suspect that much later than 3 thousand BC.

    This is most likely not a well but a ventilation shaft.
    1. +3
      13 October 2023 11: 19
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      This is most likely not a well but a ventilation shaft.

      To reach this conclusion you need to be there. It is impossible to determine from the photo.
    2. +3
      13 October 2023 15: 31
      Well. With drinking water. The Menga dolmen was discovered quite recently, so the well and the time of its creation have not yet been studied
  13. -1
    13 October 2023 10: 33
    Quote: paul3390
    Where the difference between the core of the pyramid and the subsequent layers, supposedly built under Djoser himself, is very clearly visible

    And what follows from this? That a sawn stone is adjacent to a chipped one - is this a breakdown?
  14. +3
    13 October 2023 10: 55
    The impression is that people walked and walked across Europe, ran into the Atlantic Ocean, there was nowhere to go, and they started installing megaliths!

    Personally, I liked this passage the most! laughing
    I would even continue: to climb higher on the megaliths and see what is there beyond the ocean? wassat
    And what? I think this is a reasonable version? hi
  15. +5
    13 October 2023 10: 57
    Surely many VO readers are interested in the Gobekli Tepe phenomenon

    Gobekli Tepe interests everyone now! hi
    1. +3
      13 October 2023 11: 14
      Quote: Mihaylov
      Gobekli Tepe interests everyone now!

      Then you'll have to wait a little. There's a lot to read.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. 0
    13 October 2023 20: 46
    Quote: kalibr
    To reach this conclusion you need to be there. It is impossible to determine from the photo.

    I have been to similar facilities in Cappadocia...
    1. +3
      14 October 2023 04: 47
      If it’s not a secret, in which dolmens of Cappadocia are ventilation shafts cut? And for what?
      In Menga there is a well with water
  19. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      14 October 2023 12: 47
      “All this is anti-scientific heresy of the so-called American scientists” (c). Where is there about the Zionists? We are talking specifically about American scientists.
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      14 October 2023 12: 57
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      to you and yours

      Thomas! ON the site of polite people, it is not customary to poke here. It is considered bad manners. And in general, you clearly should be more polite in your statements, otherwise you will fly out of here as quickly as a cork from a bottle of champagne.
  21. +2
    14 October 2023 00: 48
    Last time we visited predynastic Egypt and found out that, firstly, the latest paleogenetic data speaks of a purely African origin of the Badari and Negada cultures, and secondly, that... dogs, it turns out, were not domesticated anywhere... then, and in the Levant.


    It would be correct to put it a little differently. The dogs were not domesticated, but were bred through domestication and further selection, most likely the Megafaunal wolf, which lived during the late Pleistocene - early Holocene. Based on the definition, the Megafaunal wolf was adjacent to the Neanderthal and ate the same food. A dog, a finished product of selection, was discovered in the Levant. From the wild wolf to the dog, there are tens of thousands of years of domestication and selection.



    And in the XNUMXrd millennium BC. e. From the steppes north of the Black Sea, the advance of Aryan (Indo-European) tribes began to the west. With them, wheeled carts (as well as war chariots and more advanced weapons) and plows spread throughout Europe, and for the first time draft animals, especially horses, were widely used.



    In the Balkans from the middle of the XNUMXth millennium BC. e. copper and gold are smelted and processed. Whether this technology was invented locally or borrowed from the Middle East is unclear. Fine artifacts from the period have been excavated from a rich Bronze Age cemetery in Varna, Bulgaria.


    These two points are most likely connected by one important event - the domestication of the horse.

    People, most likely, even in the Stone Age, encountered metals and had the skills to process them. However, they did not see the point in their widespread use. Carry hammers, axes, pots on your back and you will understand everything. Stone is another matter. I came, lightly, to the new place and did everything that was necessary. Again, tools and weapons are consumables. The domesticated horse changed the attitude towards metals. It became possible to transport ores, finished metals and products on horses. Most likely, it was those who tamed the horse who also mastered the processing of metals. A cart, much less a chariot, cannot be made without metals.

  22. 0
    14 October 2023 01: 35
    It seems to me that the answer to the purpose of megaliths lies on the surface - what needs to be preserved unshakable so that no one can change? This was so necessary that they bothered with difficult work that required huge amounts of time and human resources... The clue is in the title of the series of articles). These are navigation structures. Three stones in the form of a doorway - what could be more visual? In dolmens, the direction was specified by the exit hole. The fact that these megaliths stand near the shores may indicate the places of arrival on the shore or the direction of departure. There are no traces of the destinations themselves, or they have gradually moved, and the signs at the intersections still stand. And we are scratching our heads)
    1. +2
      14 October 2023 02: 20
      Dolmen is like a road sign, too expensive and incomprehensible. People are more pragmatic to throw resources around. There must be an obvious use that cannot be avoided. One option: shelter for hunters from predators or a wounded animal. Such shelters (dolmens) could be built in places of constant hunting. If the head passes, then the ass will pass, if you want to live, and if it doesn’t pass, then that is your fate. The spear and bow were suitable for the construction of such shelters. There may have been other functions, but the presence of a hole hints. If you managed to drop in there, you can wait until the animal calms down and leaves. Therefore, they are massive to withstand the attack of large animals. If there are or were sources of water near the dolmens that were convenient as watering places for large animals, then this is a possible option.
      1. +4
        14 October 2023 11: 10
        Dolmens had a funerary and sacred function.
        Try to run away from the bear.. And there’s no need to pull 2-200 tons of stones for this
        1. 0
          14 October 2023 13: 10
          Dolmens had a funerary and sacred function

          I don’t know if many skeletons were found in dolmens? And if so, did the nature of the burial correspond to the scale of effort expended on the construction of the structure? I have heard of finds that speak more of random people who died in an open dolmen and used it as a refuge. M.b. I’m wrong, because I had little interest in this topic. But with a stone gate, the burial version is untenable. As for the sacred function, orientation by the stars brings us to the topic of ancient astrology, the sacred nature of which at that time cannot be doubted.
      2. 0
        14 October 2023 12: 58
        Dolmen is like a road sign, too expensive and incomprehensible.

        Expensive - yes. But if we accept that the development of the territory was conscious, and not spontaneous, then much becomes clear.
        Now the tribe has arrived at another point where there are enough resources for life. But from experience, people understand that these resources will soon be depleted or will no longer satisfy the increased number of people. It is necessary to explore the territories further, inland from the coast, in different directions, because unsuccessful campaigns are possible. For this purpose, a megalith is built, indicating the direction of such a campaign. It also serves as a reference point for the return point. In the case of a dolmen, it can also serve as a warehouse, a supply of resources that one random person or animal is not able to print. The orientation technology itself is also not complicated; it is enough to understand that the stars are the same every night and move throughout the night. On the eve of leaving the starting point, in the middle of the night, a constellation is noticed above the horizon, in the direction of which the megalith is looking. For this, only visual memory, or a piece of flat stone with “stars” marked on it, is enough. No writing required. All. On the night after each day's march in the chosen direction, the azimuth for tomorrow is noted, and the hike continues. Return according to the same scheme. Nothing fancy.
        1. +2
          14 October 2023 13: 16
          Dolmens were not built by nomadic hunters, but by sedentary settlers. And the mountains, sun and stars were enough for reference. nomads and Polenisians did not place dolmens in the steppe and in the middle of the sea. and why such difficulties - put up a pillar, it’s clearer. Why pull 200 tons? or why put 700 dolmens on an area of ​​3,5 km? for reference?
          sacred function and burials of leaders
          1. 0
            14 October 2023 14: 03
            Dolmens were not built by nomadic hunters, but by sedentary settlers.
            It is clear that people later remained at the site of the settlement bases. The settled people also needed a change of territory, the need for it simply arose less often. The three-field system was invented much later? And the nomads - yes, perhaps limited themselves to stone women, or menhirs, which, by the way, also had orientation in space. Regarding 700 dolmens over 3,5 km. - maybe in this case it was already an outbuilding? A bit too much and too dense for a religious building.
          2. 0
            14 October 2023 15: 00
            700 dolmens on an area of ​​3,5 km? for reference?

            If they are on the shore, and there are many islands in the sea, then maybe. and for reference.
            1. 0
              14 October 2023 17: 29
              Quote from cpls22
              700 dolmens on an area of ​​3,5 km? for reference?

              If they are on the shore, and there are many islands in the sea, then maybe. and for reference.

              No, it's in a mountain valley, not on the shore. Cemeteries are also places of worship, they are quite dense there. Stonehenge is also not on the shore. Drlmen Menga is oriented towards the mountain, it is already visible. And many dolmens are generally covered with mounds, how to navigate, where to go? And in order to build this, you need to settle down, time, sometimes years. And not “passed by, put it”
              1. 0
                14 October 2023 17: 53
                And in order to build this, you need to settle down, time, sometimes years. And not “passed by, put it”

                Of course, he didn’t “pass by”, but arrived on “terra incognita” and settled in for the first time. The meaning may be not in orientation at sea, but in meaningful movement deep into the territory from an area that is already quite populated, a base. This version is supported by the fact that the first reliable sources about astrology date back to the same period - about 3000 BC.
                1. +1
                  14 October 2023 18: 54
                  The area is full of landmarks, especially if a person has settled there. There are already paths and roads there. And, once again, stick a pillar, why move stones sometimes for tens and hundreds of years? Do you know how many centuries Stonehenge took to be built? Yeah, for reference - yes, over these centuries, people crawled all over the British Isles ten times.
                  These are places of worship
                  1. 0
                    14 October 2023 19: 47
                    The area is full of landmarks
                    - the main purpose of a navigation structure is to maintain the chosen direction of movement. Megalith is just a starting point of movement, and not an intermediate point. He can become like this only after he has completely taken root in a new place. As for hundreds or tens of years - perhaps these were restoration measures at different times. Why don't you move the stone one meter a month? Stonehenge could also be updated at different times with new directions, playing the role of a kind of Greenwich, with its prime meridian. They could also become religious buildings later, as remnants of a primary civilization.
                    1. +1
                      14 October 2023 20: 06
                      I understand that you imagine moving around in straight lines? laughing And there are too many starting points for the zero kilometer, don’t you think?
                      Or there are three dolmens standing nearby: one is oriented towards the sun, the second is oriented towards the nearest mountain. And the third one is on the second dolmen. So what, you couldn’t walk a couple of kilometers without this, did you get lost? Or dozens of dolmens are directed into the ocean, But don’t you yourself see that there is an ocean here?
                      1. 0
                        14 October 2023 21: 43
                        Or dozens of dolmens are directed into the ocean, But don’t you yourself see that there is an ocean here?

                        The explanation may be simple - the guiding star should have been looking at the back. In practice, this is easy to implement - a pole is placed on the ground in the direction of the constellation, and the other end will indicate the direction of movement. Once again, it is not a matter of orientation directly next to the megalith, but of identifying the constellation that determines the course. The view of this constellation, captured on some medium, could serve as a kind of compass.
                      2. +2
                        15 October 2023 06: 50
                        Yeah, and then in a straight line like a spaceship, through the top of a mountain, swamp, etc. Moreover, by that time the entire area had already been explored. But natural landmarks have not gone away.
                        A person does not walk in a straight line. And does not bury the compass in the ground
                      3. -1
                        15 October 2023 12: 27
                        Yeah, and then in a straight line like a spaceship, through the top of a mountain, swamp, etc.

                        It is clear that they bypassed natural obstacles, just as they are bypassing them now, walking along the azimuth. The main task of such expeditions is reconnaissance of the area, which is also written in the Bible) During the period corresponding to the appearance of the megaliths, the culture was already sufficiently developed not to migrate spontaneously, but to send scouts, and for a long period of time. Maintaining the direction of movement guaranteed their return to the starting point. They hardly knew how to map the path they had traveled. Natural landmarks are good on a much smaller scale of travel.
                        A person does not walk in a straight line. And does not bury the compass in the ground

                        He walks if he can, because this is the shortest way to achieve the goal. And once again: a megalith is not a compass, but a device that combines a reference point and a direction indicator. The compass for ancient expeditions was probably a fixed image of the constellation, seen with the help of a megalith at the point of departure.
                  2. 0
                    22 October 2023 14: 25
                    Stone circles are the remains of defensive structures. Dolmen - vaults. Access to them was generally prohibited. This is my conclusion. But I've been around a lot of them...
      3. +3
        14 October 2023 18: 01
        One option: shelter for hunters from predators or a wounded animal.

        Have you seen real dolmens?
        In the photo they really look like stone age pillboxes. But in reality, there are a little more than a doghouse)
        1. +2
          14 October 2023 23: 57
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          Have you seen real dolmens?
          In the photo they really look like stone age pillboxes. But in reality, there are a little more than a doghouse)


          No, I haven’t seen it, only in the photo. If hundreds of dolmens are concentrated on 3.5 sq km, this is certainly not a shelter, not a sacred place, but rather a crypt. The strange thing is that most of the dolmens are empty. Again, try placing the dead man there. If this is something like the South American or Polynesian version, as a place to store the bones of deceased ancestors, then where are these bones. Although, there is evidence in Europe of the reburial of remains by the first farmers.
          1. +3
            15 October 2023 06: 56
            The Kolijo dolmen contained the remains of about 70 people, of various ages and genders, who were located in an area of ​​2,5 m².
            In general, from 1 to dozens of skeletons were found in unlooted dolmens. And now there are tourists there, like in the subway. Many were plundered or reburied thousands of years ago.
          2. +3
            15 October 2023 06: 56
            Example: "In the Kolijo dolmen, the remains of about 70 people, of various ages and genders, were placed in an area of ​​2,5 m²."
            In general, from 1 to dozens of skeletons were found in unlooted dolmens. And now there are tourists there, like in the subway. Many were plundered or reburied thousands of years ago. Many are yet to be discovered. For example, when they dug up the Meng dolmen, they discovered several hundred skeletons
        2. 0
          22 October 2023 14: 28
          Many more of them are multi-chamber. So that the bear that breaks through gets lost laughing
      4. 0
        15 March 2024 18: 29
        But this very precisely echoes the Adyghe legend that dwarfs lived in dolmens