Expedition to the ancestors. Difficult roads across two continents

135
Expedition to the ancestors. Difficult roads across two continents
Still from the film “Fight for Fire” (1981)


For all nations walk
each in the name of his god;
and we will walk in the name
Lord our God forever and ever.

Book of the prophet Micah 6:8

Migrants and migrations. We ended our last material with the fact that about 15 thousand years ago, ancient people crossed a land bridge to the land of North America, and then moved from north to south. That is, if we undertake to study the ancient history American continent, then it will be one continuous migration that lasted... thousands of years!



We have already managed to marvel at how the ancestors of the ancient Americans passed through the “bottleneck” between two glaciers. It is believed that its width of ice-free tundra was approximately 500 km. It is possible that a strong wind was blowing from the north at their back and thus urging them on, but you just have to imagine how long they walked like this?!

True, there is also a point of view that some of the Asian migrants moved along the coastal edge, between the ocean and the Cordilleran coastal shield. However, the coast there is nothing but rocks and cliffs, and strong storms with icy winds do not make anyone want to migrate this way. Although, of course, what the migrants of that time thought about this, we will never know!


Map of the settlement of America. Of course, all the routes are depicted with a degree of convention, but it is known for sure that in both cases there were two of them. Rice. A. Shepsa

To the valleys, across the hills...


But you can imagine without guessing where all these people went when this thousand-kilometer journey was left behind. Some went further south, reached Mexico, and then, having passed the Isthmus of Panama, headed further.

Another part of the Asian migrants headed east along the edge of the glacier, where there were the richest hunting grounds and plenty of clean fresh water. After these people, quite a few of their sites remained in the eastern states of the United States and even in Florida.

By the way, those migrants who entered South America also split up. One stream moved through the territory of Brazil, again “straight south,” and the second flowed “over the mountains, along the valleys” of the Andes ridge or along a thin strip of coast. These two streams met near Tierra del Fuego (although, most likely, they approached there at different times).

For some reason, they crossed the stormy Strait of Magellan and settled on this island, one might say, on the very outskirts of civilization! By the way, one site of ancient people was found there, as well as in other places in South America, so their ancient paths can be considered established.

It is clear that the development of the jungle in the Amazon region required so much effort from them that their inhabitants still live there in almost Stone Age conditions. But not everyone stayed in this jungle, but went even further into the pampas!

But how and in what form did the human population begin to develop on the territory, first of all, of North America, where it was easiest for ancient migrants to get from the glacial passage?

Culture and time


It is believed that the first culture on the American continent was a certain culture that can be conventionally called pre-Clovis, which was then replaced by the fairly well-known Clovis culture.

Finds of products of this culture in the USA have different dates: from
13–400 years ago in the west, and from 12–800 years ago in the east. The oldest artifact found in Texas was made 12 years ago. That is, if we assume that the first settlers arrived in America 800 years ago, then they had approximately 12 years to settle and spread their Stone Age culture. That is, not so much by the historical standards known to us!


Clovis flint spearhead. Age, approx. 11 BC e. Found in Arizona. Length 000x2,98x8,5 cm. British Museum, London

Moreover, during this time they managed to “hone” the technology of making stone tools so much that today they are considered the most beautiful stone products, not only throughout the United States, but also in northern Mexico and southern Canada.

They were even given a name - “Clovis”, they are so different in appearance from similar products. Particularly good were the spear tips with a characteristic lanceolate shape, even with grooves for fastening to a wooden shaft.

Characteristic grooves...


By the way, archaeologists tried to secure tips of this type in shafts, and it turned out that they not only fit well into the splits, but also wrapped in a leather strap with hoof glue, they made it possible to obtain a very strong and reliable connection.

And they also made products from obsidian and chalcedony and quartz. Moreover, the place where the tip was found is sometimes located hundreds of kilometers from the place where such minerals were mined. This leads to the conclusion that the Clovis people were either nomadic, or there was active trade between their tribes. And if this is so, then this indicates the existence of a certain system of division of labor and the presence of modernly defined social institutions and communications.

Moreover, there are literally tons of different stone points in museums around the world. But... only the Clovis thought of making them with notches, which undoubtedly increased their labor intensity. But the consumer properties of such a tip were also higher.


Spearheads from the Clovis culture. Ohio State Archaeological Collection Office

It should be noted that American scientists have something to study on their lands, although the antiquity of their finds cannot be compared with those in Africa and Europe.

Cavemen are the same everywhere. Just like the caves...


However, as in the Old World, a number of sites of ancient people were discovered in caves. For example, these are the Paisley Caverns, a complex of four caves in central Oregon in an arid and desert region north of the town of Paisley.

They were discovered back in the 1930s, but today, thanks to modern research methods, the finds there have revealed much more interesting things than before. In particular, it was here that artifacts of the culture that preceded the Clovis culture were found.


Pacey cave complex. One of the caves...

The Marms cave dwelling was first excavated in 1962. The age of the finds dates back to about 11 years ago, while this cave itself was inhabited... for more than 230 thousand years!

Judging by the bones, the inhabitants of the cave ate the meat of elk and deer, beavers, and also collected river shellfish. Interestingly, the dart marks on the bones of the prey showed that they flew at high speed, which means that they were thrown with the help of a spear-throwing stick - an atlatl. That is, already at that time this throwing device was known to the local aborigines!

Interestingly, analysis of plant pollen from the cave showed that after the glacier retreated about 13 years ago, the area was steppe. The steppe was replaced by mixed pine-spruce forests, but now this entire area is a prairie overgrown with wormwood.


Fort Rock Cave. University of Oregon expedition photograph

Fort Rock Cave is also famous - a natural and archaeological reserve.

Ancient shoes of equally ancient Americans!


In this cave, another extremely interesting find awaited archaeologists: sandals 10 thousand years old, and, as recognized, these are the oldest surviving shoes in the world. Moreover, these sandals were not alone, several of them were found! That is, even then the inhabitants of this cave valued comfort and did not run barefoot over stones and thorns!

Back in 1938, traces of human habitation dating back about 13 years ago were found here. Moreover, a layer of volcanic ash was also discovered here, which was deposited into the cave as a result of a volcanic eruption about 200 years ago. Stone tools were also found here, and in addition to sandals, also... wicker baskets, that is, weaving was already fully mastered by the people of that era!


Clovis spearhead (British Museum, London)

Paleogenetics comes to the aid of archeology...


In 2013, an international group of scientists finally read the genome of the only known representative of the Clovis culture today - a two-year-old boy Anzick-1 (he was found in a burial covered with yellow ocher), who lived 12,5 thousand years ago in the territory of the modern state of Montana. It turned out that his Y chromosome belongs to haplogroup Q-L54, and his mitochondrial chromosome belongs to haplogroup D4h3a. Because his DNA was surprisingly well preserved, they were able to read the genome 14 times, which made it possible to almost completely eliminate the error. However, we didn’t manage to learn anything new. That is, the people of the Clovis culture, in genetic terms, turned out to be both relatives of the Indians living in North and Central America and the inhabitants of Asia.

A year later, the skeleton of a 15-year-old girl, who is believed to have lived 13 thousand years ago and who was found in 2007 on the Yucatan Peninsula in the flooded cave of Hoyo Negro, was also examined. Her mitochondrial DNA was obtained from her molars; studying it showed that American Indians belong to haplogroup D1, to which both the ancient primitive Clovis and some modern peoples living in Chukotka and Siberia belong!

So they walked and walked... And finally they arrived and found a whole huge continent for their descendants. But it’s unlikely that they themselves knew about it then...

However, we also don’t know where all the representatives of this culture disappeared to. What hypotheses have been invented to explain their disappearance, but scientists are still arguing about which of them is the most reliable!

To be continued ...
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  1. +7
    1 October 2023 05: 03
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    If over 8 thousand years the inhabitants of the cave experienced a change in landscapes from steppe to forests, then the bones of elk, deer and shellfish belong to the “forest” period. And from the “steppe” there are traces of what they ate?

    If the game left after a change in the landscape, then there were two options - either to follow it. Or change the menu radically.
    1. +4
      1 October 2023 05: 33
      Quote from Korsar4
      And from the “steppe” there are traces of what they ate?

      In my opinion, there was no steppe period - there was simply nothing to feed ourselves there. At least at that time...
      1. +7
        1 October 2023 06: 33
        I wasn’t interested in the dense change of landscapes after the glacier in North America, but there is food in the steppe too.
      2. Fat
        +10
        1 October 2023 06: 55
        Quote: Luminman
        In my opinion, there was no steppe period - there was simply nothing to feed ourselves there. At least at that time...

        Bison are apparently not the first species to be wiped out by humans. Archaeologists are discussing. Some believe that Clovis ate American mastodons, Colombian mammoths and local horses just in time for “that time,” approximately 11-12 thousand years ago. wink smile
        1. +5
          1 October 2023 07: 07
          Quote: Thick
          Bison are apparently not the first species to be wiped out by humans.

          Bison lived not only in the steppes and prairies. Forests and mountains are also their habitat. And the Europeans who arrived with their horses and firearms multiplied them by zero. The steppe is a huge space overgrown with grass. In any case, I saw such a steppe. And without a horse you won’t be able to hunt much there, and the article is about the time when the horse was not domesticated.
          1. Fat
            +5
            1 October 2023 07: 21
            For example: The American mastodon lived in North America, from Alaska to Mexico. Some finds are known in Central American countries, in particular in Honduras. The most numerous finds have been made in the eastern United States, mainly in the Florida and Great Lakes regions. Lived throughout the Pleistocene, died out about 12 thousand years ago. The most numerous finds date back to the late Pleistocene. The reasons for the extinction of mastodons are under debate. One of the main reasons could be the hunting of people of the primitive Clovis culture, since forests of swamp cypress, the branches of which this animal fed, have survived over large areas to this day. Lived in forest areas.
            Firearms are wonderful. Atlatl (which was also used by Clovis) allows you to throw a dart approximately 200 meters
            As of 2021, the world record is held by American Dave Engvall, who in 1995 threw a javelin 848.56 feet (about 259 meters) using a javelin thrower.
            1. +3
              1 October 2023 07: 54
              Quote: Thick
              One of the main reasons could be the hunting of people of the primitive Clovis culture, since the forests were made of swamp cypress, the branches of which this animal fed

              Swamp Cypress Forests - this is not the steppe. Here you can attack unnoticed...
              1. +6
                1 October 2023 08: 02
                Quote: Luminman
                Quote: Thick
                One of the main reasons could be the hunting of people of the primitive Clovis culture, since the forests were made of swamp cypress, the branches of which this animal fed

                Swamp Cypress Forests - this is not the steppe. Here you can attack unnoticed...

                Drobyshevsky, Harare and other anthropologists say that the megafauna animals of America and Australia, who did not know people, were not afraid of humans at all. They were slaughtered like Steller's cows, point blank. Whether in the steppe or in the forest
              2. +5
                1 October 2023 08: 22
                Swamp cypress (Taxodium) is now growing in an extremely waterlogged area. It is even more hydrophytic than our black alder.
                And the branches are covered with Tilandsia usneiformes (“Spanish moss”), which also needs moisture.

                There are specimens in the Krasnodar region, but I have never seen them.
            2. 0
              6 October 2023 20: 49
              "Atlatl (which was also used by Clovis) allows you to throw a dart about 200 meters"
              What is important here is not the maximum, but the lethal range.
          2. +4
            1 October 2023 07: 23
            There are also open spaces in the forest. Like our bison, wood bison contribute to this.

            And so - a cow is a cow. But big and shaggy.
          3. +5
            1 October 2023 07: 41
            YouTube is full of videos where bison are still caught from 10-30 meters. Without any horse. By stealth or driving into an ambush. Bow, atlatl or slingshot. And buffalo and spear
            1. +3
              1 October 2023 07: 45
              Quote: Tlauicol
              YouTube is full of videos where bison are still caught from 10-30 meters. Without any horse

              This is possible, but not in open areas like the steppe. How to sneak up on him and how to ambush him?
              1. +4
                1 October 2023 08: 05
                Quote: Dutchman Michel
                Quote: Tlauicol
                YouTube is full of videos where bison are still caught from 10-30 meters. Without any horse

                This is possible, but not in open areas like the steppe. How to sneak up on him and how to ambush him?

                Over time, the bosons began to get scared. And before that, they, and other megafauna, were killed simply by coming closer to them. Well, then they learned to drive skirmishers. I wrote above
              2. +5
                1 October 2023 08: 23
                Quote: Dutchman Michel
                This is possible, but not in open areas like the steppe.

                The Indians hunted buffalo on the prairie before they rode horses. There are drawings by European artists who sketched this! I'll bring them later...
                1. -2
                  1 October 2023 09: 45
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Indians hunted bison on the prairie

                  This is all from cowboy films about the Wild West wink
                  1. +4
                    1 October 2023 10: 16
                    Quote: Dutchman Michel
                    This is all from cowboy films about the Wild West

                    This is all from the work of ethnographic researchers thanks to which we know how the Indians of the Great Plains lived before 1800. But this is a large and complex topic not for a short comment.
                  2. +2
                    1 October 2023 19: 37
                    In vain they put a smiley face of irony. Both the Palefaces and the Indians hunted buffalo. Moreover, the Indians traditionally did this long before the appearance of the whites. The reduction of the buffalo halo has repeatedly caused numerous conflicts between hunters and led to open confrontation. Offhand:
                    In June 1874, a huge force of Comanches and Cheyennes attacked white buffalo hunters holed up in the Edowby Walls buildings. This started a bloody war called the Red River War or the Buffalo War.
                    1. +3
                      1 October 2023 20: 08
                      There are plenty of pictures of Indians hunting bison - the Internet can help you. Especially for you, I will exclude Indian horse hunters
                      Fig. art. John Clymer painting "Schoen Herding the Buffalo"

                      rice . engraving Thomas Hendricks 1869 "Hunting tricks of the Comanche Indians"
                      1. +3
                        1 October 2023 20: 19
                        Once on the site they already discussed the characteristics of Indian Bows in relation to bison.

                        The camouflage under the skin in the picture is amazing.
                    2. 0
                      1 October 2023 20: 33
                      Quote: Richard
                      The reduction of the buffalo halo has repeatedly caused numerous conflicts between hunters

                      What, excuse me, abbreviation? It could be: numbers, or (less likely) - habitat. Bison Halo - this is something new for me, hence the question.
                      1. +3
                        1 October 2023 21: 06
                        Naturally in numbers. Thanks for the correction.
        2. +4
          1 October 2023 07: 18
          It's actually interesting here. It is believed that woolly rhinoceroses and similar giants actively shaped open spaces.
          1. +4
            1 October 2023 07: 27
            Quote from Korsar4
            It is believed that woolly rhinoceroses and similar giants actively formed open spaces

            Before the appearance of dashing riders in the steppes and prairies, and even with firearms, no one threatened them there. There is even more than enough grass for food in the steppe
            1. +6
              1 October 2023 09: 25
              Quote: Dutchman Michel
              Before the appearance of dashing riders in the steppes and prairies, and even with firearms, no one threatened them there.
              By the time white people with guns on horses appeared in America, the woolly rhinoceros had already been extinct for several millennia, as well as mammoths and their other proboscis relatives. And mass hunting of bison began only with the advent of multi-shot rifled firearms. You can't do that with a muzzle-loading musket or even a double-barreled shotgun.
              1. +1
                1 October 2023 09: 46
                Quote: Nagan
                This cannot be done with a muzzle-loading musket or even a double-barreled shotgun.

                That's it!
    2. +14
      1 October 2023 06: 37
      You just need to understand that people did not live continuously in this cave for 8000 years straight. This material is compiled in such a way that it creates a lot of false impressions in a person unfamiliar with the issue.
      1. +6
        1 October 2023 07: 19
        Anton, this is something he can understand.
        I have never seen the “Eternal Caveman” in literature.
        1. +6
          1 October 2023 08: 25
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          You just need to understand that people did not live continuously in this cave for 8000 years straight. This material is compiled in such a way that it creates a lot of false impressions in a person unfamiliar with the issue.

          Quote from Korsar4
          Anton, this is something he can understand.
          I have never seen the “Eternal Caveman” in literature.

          In principle, any cave or even grotto has at least walls on three sides and a roof over your head. Considering the migratory nature of getting food for primitive man (you can’t trample, you can’t dig), it would be a sin not to use the shelters created by nature as temporary stops.
          Modern man does not disdain this either.
          Unfortunately, it’s not possible to post a photo of the goat at the mouth of the river. Big Tig with traces of modern “homosapiens”. laughing
          1. +7
            1 October 2023 08: 38
            I've been to few caves. Perhaps the role of a gnome is not suitable.

            Here, gentlemen, the students drew a wall newspaper.
            1. +3
              1 October 2023 20: 31
              I would be careful, Sergei, to take such a cup. Its top really vaguely resembles something smile

              This is of course a joke, but seriously - please accept my sincere congratulations on yet another professional success! drinks
              1. +1
                1 October 2023 21: 31
                Thank you, Dmitry!

                Is very similar. First - a trap. And then - the dust collector.

                The result is not always important. The road is more important.
                1. +1
                  1 October 2023 22: 17
                  The result is not always important. The road is more important.

                  The town of Udoev greeted the concessionaires with posters “Welcome!”, “Hello to the rally participants!”, “The result is not important. The road is more important!” and “The main thing is not victory - the main thing is participation!” Ostap took out a box of honey paints from his suitcase, a long strip of yellowish calico and wrote on it in block letters: “Let’s hit the road rally against impassability and sloppiness!” The poster was mounted above the car on two twigs. The antelope's passengers became poised...(c). smile
                  1. +1
                    1 October 2023 23: 06
                    The result is not always important. The road is more important.

          2. +5
            1 October 2023 09: 46
            In principle, any cave or even grotto has at least walls on three sides and a roof over your head.

            The cavernous nature of people, especially northerners, is another mental construct of the scientist type. Because the cave, of course, protects from precipitation - but in winter it’s the same -40 as outside. And it is physically impossible to heat a frozen stone. So you can live there in one case - if you put up a tent, a wigwam or a yaranga. In which it is possible to maintain the required temperature. Then there is a chance to escape from the cold and living in a cave makes sense.

            Just like they like to draw, for example, Neanderthals in fur shorts and a skin over their shoulder. But no, to do an experiment - take a blanket, wrap yourself up like that and go outside in the winter. And in about 5 minutes it will become crystal clear and understandable - without good quality, properly sewn fur clothing, a person has nothing to do in the north. Did you find bone needles in the parking lots, no - that doesn’t change anything. Clothes are a must. As well as the corresponding skills.
            1. 0
              6 October 2023 20: 52
              The north is different from the north. Yes, and the south is different. The Fuegians will not be allowed to lie. Living near Antarctica, we walked around in very primitive clothes, or even completely naked. So the Neanders have a big problem with clothing. After all, they could actually be covered with fur; in old drawings they were depicted that way.
      2. +4
        1 October 2023 08: 26
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        creates a lot of false impressions for a person unfamiliar with the issue

        Anton! If you write it differently, it will be an abstruse scientific article that will simply be impossible to read.
        1. +4
          1 October 2023 08: 50
          Hello, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
          Well, why "abstruse"? Here, practically on the same topic, only in more detail.
          https://topwar.ru/187066-shturmuja-vysokie-shiroty-osvoenie-pervobytnym-chelovekom-arktiki-i-subarktiki.html
          1. +4
            1 October 2023 10: 20
            only in more detail.
            https://topwar.ru/187066-shturmuja-vysokie-shiroty-osvoenie-pervobytnym-chelovekom-arktiki-i-subarktiki.html[/quote]
            And how many more such articles were there?
            1. +4
              1 October 2023 11: 06
              And how many more such articles were there?
              One more.
              1. +3
                1 October 2023 16: 07
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Another

                Here! I know that there were two of them and the author was not enough for more. And here there will be a quite decent cycle, covering many issues. And, it is clear that this will not be enough for some. But for 80% of readers, or even for all 90, it’s just right.
    3. +2
      1 October 2023 08: 04
      Quote from Korsar4
      And from the “steppe” there are traces of what they ate?

      I would be glad to answer your question, but I can’t. No information. And searching in their publications... it takes so much time. And will you find it?
    4. +4
      1 October 2023 08: 32
      Quote from Korsar4
      If the game left after a change in the landscape, then there were two options - either to follow it. Or change the menu radically.


      Birds also live in the steppe. In addition, back then they actively ate...horses. After all, the New World had its own horses and then they had not yet died out.
    5. +7
      1 October 2023 12: 51
      So where is the main thing - what did the people of the Clovis culture eat during the period of the steppe landscape?

      Oh, this Yandex search with geolocation is for me! lol : I typed into the search engine “what did primitive people eat in the steppe landscape.” I instantly received an answer from which I almost choked on my cigarette, and then laughed for a long time laughing wassat
      in the canteen on the street. Kutuzova. laughing Tasty and not expensive. Free 56-hour home delivery is possible. Good feedback. Address: Stavropol region. Stepnovsky MO, p. Stepnoe, st. Kutuzova, 360. From you in a straight line, only XNUMX km. Shall I build you a route?
      1. +6
        1 October 2023 13: 03
        Hello Dmitry!
        Reminded me of the immortal phrase from the film “Sportloto-82”: “How did primitive people open canned food?”
        1. +5
          1 October 2023 13: 16
          Greetings Anton!
          Apparently they had live canned food - wild pigs, goats, etc., previously captured and kept in primitive pens. Which they later began to breed.
          1. +2
            1 October 2023 13: 59
            I strongly doubt that the Clovis culture was noted for its success in domesticating animals. This is not at all typical for the indigenous inhabitants of this continent.
            1. Fat
              +3
              1 October 2023 14: 35
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              This is not at all typical for the indigenous inhabitants of this continent.

              Anton, you are forgetting about dogs!
              Native American dogs, or pre-Columbian dogs, were dogs that lived with people native to the Americas. Originating around 10 years ago with the Paleo-Indians, today they make up a small portion of dog breeds that range from the Alaskan Malamute to the Peruvian Hairless Dog.
              Pre-contact Native Americans bred dogs for the following purposes:
              For hunting
              For grazing in the Andes - (no success in domestication?)
              Some tribes used dogs to pull drag
              Decorative dogs.
              Eventually, some groups of Indians ate dogs.
              1. +3
                1 October 2023 14: 57
                Anton, you are forgetting about dogs!
                Borisych, dogs are the last pet I will forget about!
            2. +2
              1 October 2023 17: 55
              I seriously doubt their success in domesticating animals. This is not at all typical for the indigenous inhabitants of this continent.

              In vain, Anton. On the BBC you can watch a documentary about the aborigines of South America. Their life today is not much different from the primitive



              So it’s interesting that during the hunt they catch peccary pigs and monkeys,


              1. +2
                1 October 2023 17: 56
                But they are not eaten right away, but are fattened in pens for a rainy day, like live canned food. Scientists believe that this is nothing more than the first step towards the domestication of animals - a path similar to the one that all of humanity took in the past.

        2. +4
          1 October 2023 13: 19
          “They didn’t even have canned food” (c).

          As a child, this episode was one of the most memorable.
          1. +1
            1 October 2023 21: 40
            how primitive people opened canned food

            The sad irony is that today many far from primitive, but quite modern people are trying to open “canned food” found in the ground with bricks.
      2. +5
        1 October 2023 13: 07
        And from the “steppe” there are traces of what they ate?

        But seriously, the answer is right on the surface. In the dry steppe zone, the diet of the people of the Clovis culture apparently consisted of meat obtained from primitive cattle breeding and fresh game (obtained by hunting). And also, apparently, gathering and farming - they grew primarily millet, barley and spelt. Millet is one of the most drought-resistant grains, which is important for steppe dwellers.
        1. 0
          6 October 2023 21: 03
          And also, apparently, gathering and farming - they grew primarily millet, barley and spelt. Millet is one of the most drought-resistant grains, which is important for steppe dwellers.

          Clovisians and proto-agriculture? You are making discoveries on a global scale! True, in proto-agriculture, plants are not grown, but what Mother Nature provides on a large scale is collected. And yes, the poor Clovis residents forgot millet, barley and spelt somewhere along the way in Asia, they are not in America, they had to be content (and not with the Clovis residents, but with their heirs, when the Younger Dryas ended and the weather warmed up) with teosinte, which is generally used as an edible plant attributed very conditionally. The ancestors of peppers and pumpkins were still growing well, and a captive or relative could be boiled or fried as a side dish.
      3. +5
        1 October 2023 13: 18
        Thanks for the advertisement!

        I immediately felt more confident that I would not be lost in the village of Stepnoye.
        1. +4
          1 October 2023 13: 39
          What to do there? It’s better to come to us right away - you’ll relax and at the same time look at the garden, which we replanted according to your online instructions. This year, our transplanted Golden Delicious apple trees produced fruit for the first time! Four years later!!!

          And the Idared apple trees took root almost immediately - they are already bearing fruit for the second year
          1. +3
            1 October 2023 18: 23
            How joyful it is to look at apples.
            October has begun. There is still so much to do that I don’t even think about vacation.

            And business trips to your region are unlikely.

            But thank you very much for the invitation!
            It's good when there is more than just a point on the map.
  2. +2
    1 October 2023 05: 39
    Due to constant bloody civil strife, the Redskins were forced into America by the yellow race.
    1. +6
      1 October 2023 07: 18
      Quote: Above_name
      Due to constant bloody civil strife, the Redskins were forced into America by the yellow race.

      It is doubtful that 15 thousand years ago the “yellow race” existed and was an autochon on the territory of modern China, Korea and Japan. Even the Indo-European expansion to the east takes place much later.
      I think the settlement of America was facilitated by climate, and not by any other reasons. Perhaps they were there but acted as a contributing factor.
    2. +5
      1 October 2023 07: 28
      Quote: Above_name
      Due to constant bloody civil strife, the Redskins were forced into America by the yellow race.

      There were no redskins at that time, just as there were no yellowskins. wink
      1. Fat
        +5
        1 October 2023 07: 57
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        There were no redskins at that time

        hi Europeans began to call the Indians redskins due to the “make-up” of the Mohawk warriors (self-name: Kanien’kéha / Kanyen’kéha, “people of flint” from the Iroquois League.) This has nothing to do with race.
        1. +6
          1 October 2023 10: 08
          Europeans began to call Indians “redskins” thanks to the “make-up” of Mohawk warriors
          I've met real North American Indians a couple of times. They are red-skinned; their skin has a copper tint.
          1. Fat
            +4
            1 October 2023 11: 42
            hi Hello Alex. I used to often communicate with Asians, and more recently with the Chinese. They are dark-skinned people, and if they have a tan, they are quite “copper-skinned.” I just can’t fully understand why Asians are called the “yellow” race. Stereotypical thinking, probably.
            The same stereotype also “crushed” you... request
          2. +2
            1 October 2023 15: 47
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            I've met real North American Indians a couple of times. They are red-skinned - the skin has a copper tint

            I will support you. Their skin is not entirely copper, but somewhat dark, but the dark is not like that of the Arabs, but something different. Yes, probably still some kind of dark copper shade. I'm talking about the West Virginia Indians. Perhaps Indians from another part of the country have a different skin color. I saw a Nicaraguan (Indian), he looks more like a Vietnamese...
      2. +2
        1 October 2023 21: 21
        There were no redskins at that time

        Agree. The natives will become acquainted with “fire water” much later wink
  3. +5
    1 October 2023 05: 40
    The article brought back memories of my childhood...
    Roni Sr.: “Fight for Fire”, “Cave Lion”, “Vamirah”...
    good
    1. +4
      1 October 2023 07: 37
      Roni Sr.: "Fight for Fire", "Cave Lion"
      As a child, I reread it ten times, then, under the impression, I took up “Plutonia”, “Sannikov’s Land”, “The Lost World”......
    2. +2
      1 October 2023 11: 56
      Quote: ROSS 42
      The article brought back memories of my childhood...
      Roni Sr.: “Fight for Fire”, “Cave Lion”, “Vamirah”...
      good

      As a child, without the Internet)), I still could not understand how this spear thrower of “people without shoulders” worked. I imagined it as a tablet, into the recess of which a short piece of string was inserted))
  4. Fat
    +6
    1 October 2023 06: 24
    hi Vecheslav Olegovich. Good morning, colleagues.
    One important note to make regarding "dating"
    “Before our era” is the dating according to the calendar we accept, that is, before the birth of Christ.
    “Before our time”, “until our days” (“years ago”) - this is up to 1950 inclusive. This year, all conditions have already been prepared for conducting a fairly accurate radiocarbon analysis (this is what archaeologists decided)
    Therefore, b.c.e. and b.c.e. have a difference of 1950 years. Read and consider carefully. Yes
    With respect.
    1. +6
      1 October 2023 07: 18
      Bravo, Borisych!
      The migration map says "BC", but this is not in the text. Thus, it seems that the representatives of the Clovis culture were the first people on the continent.
    2. +4
      1 October 2023 08: 06
      Quote: Thick
      Andrey Borisovich

      Thank you, Andrey Borisovich! I completely forgot about this circumstance. It's good that you paid attention to him.
  5. +5
    1 October 2023 07: 21
    True, there is also a point of view that some of the Asian migrants moved along the coastal edge, between the ocean and the Cordilleran coastal shield. However, the coast there is nothing but rocks and cliffs, and strong storms with icy winds do not make anyone want to migrate this way.

    But the ocean with its “seafood” is nearby.
    Good morning everyone!
    1. +7
      1 October 2023 07: 38
      But the ocean with its “seafood” is nearby.
      Good morning everyone!

      Good morning everyone!!!
      Just some kind of “Galapagos” by Vanegut laughing laughing laughing
      1. +4
        1 October 2023 08: 44
        Quote: Edward Vashchenko
        But the ocean with its “seafood” is nearby.
        Good morning everyone!

        Good morning everyone!!!
        Just some kind of “Galapagos” by Vanegut laughing laughing laughing

        Good morning Edward!
        Man is far from a unique creature; in my experience, some representatives of “homosapiens” ate worms while digging a grave while consuming an alcohol-containing liquid (of very dubious quality).
        Then for me it was a complete “paragraph”! A quarter of a century later, it’s just a funny way to get rid of competitors for a bottle of samopal. However, I still thank God that my stomach was empty at that moment.
        Although the institution of “tabooing” food resources was also present in history. In the case of Greenland it ended fatally.
        No joke, even today my fellow countrymen do not welcome going to a number of places in the forest. No one can clearly explain the reasons. My grandfather once said simply: “not accepted.”
        By the way, similar myths are formed in modern culture, but because of the criminal component.
        R.s. No one goes anywhere because of a good life.
        Regards, Vlad!
        1. +7
          1 October 2023 09: 00
          R.s. No one goes anywhere because of a good life.

          + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
          laughing
        2. +4
          1 October 2023 09: 04
          Yeah. A person settles into a “good life”. Depletes resources. Or in some other way makes her unbearable.

          Overpopulation, for example, pushes for the expansion of space.
          1. +3
            1 October 2023 09: 30
            Quote from Korsar4
            Yeah. A person settles into a “good life”. Depletes resources. Or in some other way makes her unbearable.

            Overpopulation, for example, pushes for the expansion of space.

            Good morning Sergey, even in this case, the weakest leave their homes. The strong will only go to the country of “Brazil”, “Eldorado” or “Promised Land”.
            However, “permanent habitat” is a relative concept for primitive man; like predators, he followed the “object of his food,” which in turn followed seasonal migration cycles. Even at the dawn of agriculture, humanity migrated through shifting land use. It is not surprising that the first centers of civilization arise in places with super favorable agriculture: in the interfluves or river deltas.
            1. +4
              1 October 2023 10: 01
              Good afternoon, Vladislav!
              "Younger Sons" Even among plants, there are Violents - lion plants, patients - camel plants, and explerents: jackal plants.
            2. +2
              1 October 2023 12: 00
              the first centers of civilization arise in places of super favorable agriculture: in the interfluves or river deltas

              Çatalhöyük? Jericho? Gobekli Tepe?
        3. +2
          1 October 2023 14: 07
          Even today, my fellow countrymen discourage walking in a number of places in the forest. No one can clearly explain the reasons. My grandfather once said simply: “not accepted.”

          This happens everywhere. In my area too. I remember it from childhood. that the villagers had never picked mushrooms in Dunkina Grove. I asked the old people why this was so. But in the seventies no one remembered why. They answered simply - “not accepted, it’s a sin.” To my question, why sin? They answered, “Who knows now. It’s been considered that way since time immemorial.”
          Greetings, Vlad!
  6. +2
    1 October 2023 07: 33

    Penetration ability of a stone tip
    1. +3
      1 October 2023 09: 56
      Another surprising thing is that the stone tip is actually a disposable thing. And the Clovis tip is just as functional for hunting as the Mousterian tip. So why the hell would you spend so much effort on carefully processing it??

      Moreover, evidence has been found in many places that, in general, people understood this very well. For example, in Kostenki, among the quite advanced Cro-Magnon products, there are several quite Mousterian tips. And there are enough such examples.

      So why? I understand that this is a naked alternative, but it seems to me that only one explanation is logical - this is the copying of a certain metal prototype, commanded by gods and customs... Which they all look like.

      And there are examples of this - we all know carefully polished stone axes of the early Copper Age. Moreover, on some, even the casting seam is imitated.. Because copper is a rare and expensive thing, so they made status imitations..

      1. +3
        1 October 2023 10: 23
        Quote: paul3390
        So why the hell would you spend so much effort on carefully processing it??

        Who would know this?
      2. +3
        1 October 2023 10: 52
        Who knows. Let the Clovis tips require the same number of man-hours as two Moustiers, but the spear can be thrown further, and it will not bounce. And up close it will penetrate deeper. That is, progress in stone processing and the search for new modifications was beneficial
        1. +1
          1 October 2023 11: 05
          Don't think. Once again, the tip is a disposable product, there is no point in bringing it to perfection. And in most regions of the planet, they didn’t bother with this. In fact - only in Europe and the Clovis culture. No - high-quality stone products were sometimes made in other places, but there they were specifically ritual products in well-established proto-state communities.
          1. +2
            1 October 2023 11: 32
            Once again, with a Clovis tip you are more likely to kill an animal. And at a greater distance. And if you just break both Mousterians, the beast will run away
            1. +2
              1 October 2023 14: 35
              No. You're more likely to break the Clovis - it's still noticeably thinner. As for the greater distance - why is this suddenly?? Do you really think that the actual flight range of a spear depends on the shape of the tip?

              1. +3
                1 October 2023 15: 08
                Eprst.. Penetration ability depends on the shape of the tip. Therefore, the effective throw range. And the depth of the wound.
                So it makes more sense to make one tip that will kill the animal and break than two tips that will break without piercing the skin
                1. +3
                  1 October 2023 15: 15
                  Why did you decide that an almost serrated Clovis sharpening is more effective for injection than a chipped Mousterian?? Just look at it - the edge is actually blunt! Unlike the one obtained with a large chip. Compare for yourself.



                  You see, in my youth I hung around with archaeologists for several seasons, therefore I know firsthand about the properties of various types of stone tools.
                  1. +3
                    1 October 2023 16: 02
                    The shape, thickness of the blade and sharpening are two different things. You can cut yourself on a brick, but it’s better to pierce the meat with a thin tip.
                    The guys who do this make stone knives with such a chip that they can skin and cut meat from a bison. Moreover, sometimes right next to the carcass they quickly chop pieces for cutting from the stone. But they get it with thin Clovis, which they tinkered with at home. Probably stupid (in the sense of guys)
                    1. +1
                      2 October 2023 02: 42
                      Do you even understand the difference between a cut and an injection? Even simpler - between a meat cleaver and a spear?

                      As for the uncles - I don’t need this here, as I already said - I spent my entire youth on expeditions with such people.
                      1. +1
                        2 October 2023 05: 31
                        Quote: paul3390
                        Do you even understand the difference between a cut and an injection? Even simpler - between a meat cleaver and a spear?

                        As for the uncles - I don’t need this here, as I already said - I spent my entire youth on expeditions with such people.

                        Of course I understand, that’s why I don’t try to shave with an awl. And serrated sharpening is not a point, but an edge.
                        And guys don’t tell tales about how Cro-Magnons are dumber than Neanderthals, but take a bison carcass and throw spears with stone tips at it. Different shapes, different material (breed). Dozens of times, and they all record it. On YouTube. By the way, Clovis does not break every time, even when it hits a bone - then it is thrown a second and a third time, and everything is removed.
                        Yes, Clovis is also made by chipping, with a smaller tip cross-section Yes , And Moustier has the same serrated sharpening
      3. +5
        1 October 2023 11: 00
        Quote: paul3390
        the stone tip is actually a disposable thing...
        ...So why the hell spend so much effort on carefully processing it??

        Why the hell would a sword be gilded and its hilt decorated with precious stones? Why were the first T-34 tanks sanded until they were shiny? I will answer myself: for greater show-offs... wink
        1. +3
          1 October 2023 11: 09
          Show-offs - they are good on rare high-status items. Like the stone axes I mentioned above. But in mass everyday purely utilitarian production??? I doubt something... On feijoa?
        2. +3
          1 October 2023 18: 50
          Why were the first T-34 tanks sanded until they were shiny? I’ll answer it myself: for big show-offs

          Do you mean the presentation of two Koshkin tanks, which survived the Kharkov-Moscow run, to Stalin on Red Square?
          Well, this is more likely not a show-off, but a necessity.
          According to the memoirs of Eduard Gerasimenok, when asked by the leader: “Why do they shine?” We replied that the tanks participating in the run had not undergone factory priming and painting and during the journey received a coating of iron oxides and rust. Therefore, before presenting the tanks to I.V. Stalin, they were brought into “divine form” - washed, the rust was cleaned off, the vehicles were covered with protective lubricant. Stalin was pleased with the answer; he liked the tanks, especially our turns across Red Square. They fly like swallows - he said (c)

          This episode was included in the 1980 feature film. “Chief Designer” starring Boris Nevzorov and Yuri Kayurov.

          But the modern remix of this film "Tanks" traditionally did not do without film bloopers - Stalin and his entourage are there in uniform, which will be introduced only in three years. laughing
          1. 0
            6 October 2023 14: 40
            The 1980 film is also not without its sins. There the tanks themselves are in the form of a later modification T 34-85, which is still 4 years away
      4. +4
        1 October 2023 12: 41
        Moreover, evidence has been found in many places that, in general, people understood this very well. For example, in Kostenki, among the quite advanced Cro-Magnon products, there are several quite Mousterian tips. And there are enough such examples.

        So why? I understand that this is a naked alternative, but it seems to me that only one explanation is logical - this is the copying of a certain metal prototype, commanded by gods and customs... Which they all look like.

        Hi Paul!
        Careful finishing of the tips - it is possible to give them a marketable appearance. Barter trade already existed, so that was an option.
        Regarding ritual ceremonies. On the Chusovaya River there are several grottoes at a height of 5 to 20 meters from the surface of the water. Their excavations revealed thousands of points from different eras (from flint, fish bone, copper, bronze and iron), as well as bullets, shot, chopped grapeshot and even cast iron cannonballs of caravan cannons (bass). Scientists believe that for thousands of years, local residents had a belief that you would attract good luck if you hit this “target”.
        According to climbers who climbed with a metal detector into the Ermakov cave two years ago, they found two bullets from rifled weapons and two dozen bullets and balls from pneumatic weapons. Although the last mischief.
        1. +3
          1 October 2023 12: 47
          And, characteristically, bullets differ from each other and evolve. Although, it would seem, the thing is utilitarian and disposable. Miracles! Archeology mystery
          1. +6
            1 October 2023 13: 58
            And, characteristically, bullets differ from each other and evolve. Although, it would seem, the thing is utilitarian and disposable. Miracles!

            There are no miracles in the evolution of the bullet. As in the evolution of projectiles, torpedoes, missiles, mines, grenades, which are also disposable items. Even something as disposable as a condom is constantly evolving.
  7. +7
    1 October 2023 07: 45
    America's Settlement Map

    For a long time I was looking for an informative map on the topic of the series, unfortunately I found it only for the third article.

    1. +5
      1 October 2023 08: 09
      Quote: Dekabrist
      America's Settlement Map

      Nice card. I didn't come across it. And the numbers on it are thousands of years old, right?
      1. +6
        1 October 2023 08: 33
        And the numbers on it are thousands of years old, yes

        Yes, the numbers are thousands of years “to the present day.” The dotted lines are the approximate boundaries of glaciation during the last ice age.
        Map from the book of the Swedish archaeologist Burenhult (Burenhult) Die ersten Menschen. True, it is in German.

    2. Fat
      +7
      1 October 2023 09: 03
      hi Greetings, Victor. A very clear map. According to it, people reached Beringia 25 thousand years ago. They hung there for almost 9000 years. Obviously, this map was prepared by a supporter of the “Beringian Stagnation” hypothesis, or “Beringian Stagnation”. If this map is combined with the map of changes in “sea level”, then all the “pathways” of expansion will acquire an even more harmonious logic.
      Again, it is clear that the settlers overcame the “bottleneck” of the Mackenzie corridor a couple of millennia before the dating of the “Clovis culture.” good drinks
      1. +3
        1 October 2023 10: 24
        Quote: Thick
        overcome the bottleneck of the Mackenzie corridor a couple of millennia before the dating of the Clovis culture.

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  8. +2
    1 October 2023 07: 48


    Stone Age spear throwers. Range 100 and 120m
  9. +2
    1 October 2023 07: 54


    Reconstruction of a Stone Age spear thrower. Accuracy at 90 and 20m
  10. +4
    1 October 2023 08: 25
    Paisley Caverns is a complex of four caves in central Oregon in an arid and desert region north of the town of Paisley.

    In particular, it was here that artifacts of the culture that preceded the Clovis culture were found

    A somewhat funny moment. An artifact that, according to radiocarbon dating, is 14 years old, archaeologists call coprolites, that is, fossilized excrement, in this case, human excrement.
    In addition, the found spearheads differ in shape from the Clovis ones.

  11. +2
    1 October 2023 09: 34
    weaving by people of that era was already fully mastered

    Weaving seems to have been known to Neanderthals... As well as fixing the tip with glue and rope.

    Archaeologists digging in Abri do Maras continued to search, and their search finally yielded results.

    Let me remind you that the layers of this Middle Paleolithic monument are from 90 to 40 thousand years old, and since 2006 several thousand stone tools have been found here. The special approach of archaeologists was this: the found archefacts were not cleared of soil, but were immediately placed in sealed self-sealing bags and sent to the laboratory, where they were studied under a microscope. The find that became the pearl of the monument is an inconspicuous six-centimeter flint flake G8 128, or more precisely, a white speck on its lower side, which turned out to be a piece of twisted fibers 6 mm long and 0,5 mm thick. The weapon was discovered at a depth of 3 m, in a layer 41-46 thousand years old. The fact that the fibers were located on the underside of the find means that they entered the layer either together with the flake or before it. The cemented sedimentary rock covering them also spoke about the antiquity of the fibers.
  12. +4
    1 October 2023 09: 45
    Dutchman Michel (Mikhel), in the steppe any cow (bison is the same cow) will look for a watering hole, and hunters will ambush there.
    1. 0
      1 October 2023 13: 47
      Quote: Tests
      Dutchman Michel (Mikhel), in the steppe any cow (bison is the same cow) will look for a watering hole, and hunters will ambush there

      I thought about this too, but in the steppe there are no rivers or lakes at all. And if there is, the animal will always be on guard. For example, in African reservoirs, crocodiles are always in wait for herbivores, and before approaching the water, the animal will look around a hundred times wink
  13. +6
    1 October 2023 11: 36
    Kote Pan Kokhanka (Vladislav), dear, I will support you about the sea-ocean!
    In my native Arkhangelsk region they have finally allowed to catch pink salmon. But not in salmon spawning rivers. Pink salmon produce a surge in numbers every year. About 5 years ago, they filmed videos in the rivers of the Mezen region where the entire river was filled with the carcasses of dead pink salmon. It goes to the rivers to spawn earlier than the salmon, and young salmon in the sea devour it with pleasure. A pest, basically. But it took root after being resettled from the Far East. And 100-150 years ago, the White Sea region largely lived on the salmon and trout fisheries - so, pampering. For history, 200 years is a blink, but how everything has changed in these 200 years!
    This year they also began to catch snow crab in the White Sea, which was moved from the Far East to the Barents Sea near Murmansk. The crab multiplied there and crossed the border of the USSR and Norway and began to actively spread to the south, towards the Norwegians. And about 20 years ago, something forced the crab to move along the Kola Peninsula to the east and penetrate into the White Sea. But they didn’t exist 100 years ago in the White Sea.
    At the beginning of the 20th century, beavers were brought to the Arkhangelsk region from Voronezh. Our beavers were almost all killed. But today no one hunts them and they build dams on new rivers. But in the hungry 90s, almost all the wild reindeer on the right bank of the Northern Dvina were killed. A large herd remains only in the Shilovsky reserve in the Krasnoborsky district in the south of the region. Over the past 200 years, nature has changed beyond recognition, and today we can only guess what it was like 1000 - 3000 years ago...
    The first people in North America, on the Pacific coast from early spring to late autumn, were provided with different species of salmon going to spawn. How these fish were distributed even 1000 years ago - science does not know. Through nuclear testing and the discharge of harmful substances into rivers, humanity has almost exterminated the same salmon. And why coho salmon in North America grows up to 15 kg, and in Asia up to 7 - is still a mystery... I think the fish could feed the first settlers in North America. Plus fur seals, walruses, whales, shellfish, ducks and geese, waders, seagulls. Yes, a muskrat is easier to hunt than a beaver, and the muskrat’s homeland is North America.... Flocks of passenger pigeons covered the sky back in the 19th century. Whether the boundaries of their migrations reached the Pacific coast 3000 years ago or not - we do not know. We can only guess how sea turtles migrated 3000 years ago....
    Yes, large sloths were found in South America (their bones are found in abundance); folklore researchers believe that these giants were found 800 years ago. Sloths are not at all difficult prey for humans.
    1. +5
      1 October 2023 12: 46
      Thanks for the detailed comment! hi
      I know from myself that in the summer and autumn I will find something to kill in the forest, even if I have only one knife. In winter and spring it is more difficult.
    2. +3
      1 October 2023 13: 51
      The first people in North America, on the Pacific coast from early spring to late autumn, were provided with different species of salmon going to spawn. How these fish were distributed even 1000 years ago - science does not know.

      Apparently the representatives of science forgot to tell us what they don’t know, so they boldly describe the distribution of salmon not only 1000 years ago, but also 15 years ago, just during the period of settlement of North America.
      https://www.historylink.org/File/20263
  14. +1
    1 October 2023 11: 39
    Map of the settlement of America.
    What, in the south (the very south, not near the equator) there were no glaciers? And if so, why?
    1. 0
      6 November 2023 08: 34
      The North Atlantic makes the weather, the Gulf Stream disappeared, Europe and North America froze, but this did not concern the south.
  15. +3
    1 October 2023 12: 16
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

    However, I will allow myself to disagree with one thesis:
    Cavemen are the same everywhere. Just like people...


    I can’t say anything about people, but I don’t agree about caves! Each cave has its own height from bottom to top, width, and depth. It is clear that the characteristics of the caves changed, but there was never such a thing as all the caves were the same in height, depth and width. And all the caves are located in different places...

    Sincerely, your Artyom.
  16. Fat
    +3
    1 October 2023 15: 08
    Hmmm. In the morning I’ve been wondering whether it’s worth focusing on one scandal. We're talking about Kennewick Man.
    The remains were discovered by two teenagers on July 28, 1996 in the Columbia River near the city of Kennewick (hence the name). At first, experts suggested that the skeleton belonged to a person who died in the 19th century.
    However, radiocarbon analysis showed the age - approximately 9200 years ago...
    Only after nine years of legal battles did scientists finally gain the right to study one of the oldest and most complete skeletons ever found in North America. The delay occurred because several Northwestern Indian tribes (Umatilla, Yakama, Colville and Nez Perce) demanded that “their ancestor” be left alone, citing the Native American Graves Protection Act. and Repatriation Act of 1990, NAGPRA). Fortunately, after several appeals, a federal court finally concluded that these bones were so old that it was no longer possible to establish a clear connection with modern “Native Americans,” and specialists were finally given a chance to work with bones that had previously been kept “in a neutral place.” territory" - at the University of Washington's Burke Museum of Natural History and Culture.
    This is what anthropologists from Smithsonian University were able to establish.
    This man had already been buried once; the river current washed away the grave. Was wounded by a spear or javelin in the front of the thigh (part of the stone tip was stuck in the pelvic bone)
    The Kennewick man died in his late thirties, although previous estimates made him significantly older. Well, but the blow from the spear, from which the hunter did not immediately recover and was limping, he received between 15 and 20 years old - that is, while still in his youth.
    And most importantly, the first examinations of the outlines of the Kennewick Man skull showed serious differences from what is characteristic of the Indians, now considered true Native Americans. Paleogeneticists later established that this person was much closer to the Ainu and, perhaps, wore a thick beard and mustache during his lifetime...

    1. +6
      1 October 2023 15: 24
      And most importantly, the first examinations of the outlines of the Kennewick Man skull showed serious differences from what is characteristic of the Indians, now considered true Native Americans. Paleogeneticists later established that this person was much closer to the Ainu and, perhaps, wore a thick beard and mustache during his lifetime.


      The first important question we tried to solve was to which modern population Kennewick man is most closely related. it is clear that the genome sequence shows that it is most closely related to modern Native Americans.

      “We actually also got data on the entire Ainu genome from a Japanese chief, and we also had Polynesian (data) for comparison, as well as what's available around the world, and Kennewick Man didn't show any significance in terms of having more number of Ainu. or Polynesian DNA than other modern Native Americans.

      From this perspective, I think we can very clearly conclude that he is most clearly related to modern Native Americans

      Professor Eske Willerslev from the Center for Geogenetics of the Danish Museum of Natural History, University of Copenhagen
      Interview here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33170655
      article here - https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14625
      1. Fat
        +4
        1 October 2023 16: 07
        Thank you, Victor. Accepted. my information is out of date Yes
        However, from the article on your link it is clear that the Callville tribe are possibly descendants of Kennewick Man and:
        We conclude that the currently available number of independent phenetic markers is too small and the within-population craniometric variation is too great to provide a reliable reconstruction of the biological population similarity of Kennewick man.
        1. +4
          1 October 2023 17: 13
          Callville tribe




          Ancient Indians consider lunch option. Perhaps one of the nicknames is the same “Kennewick Man”.
          1. +1
            1 October 2023 22: 37
            It is unlikely that the people in this picture are the Callwil tribe. feel The picture clearly does not fit into their habitat. EMNIP, Collville - one of the first peoples who lived in the Rocky Mountains region
            1. +1
              1 October 2023 22: 51
              There is also an Indian reservation in the north-central part of Washington state with a very similar name - Colville, created on April 9, 1872 by decree of US President W. Grant for 12 Sahaptin and Salesh tribes of the Northwest: because. - Colville, Nespelem, Sunpoil, Sinixt, Wenatchee, Shelan, Entiat, Methow, Okanogan, Cincus-Columbia, Nez Perce and Palouse
              1. Fat
                +1
                2 October 2023 11: 13
                Greetings, Dmitry. When I wrote about Callville, I was referring to the tribes living on this reservation, and not to any specific tribe with that name. Genetic samples taken on this reservation turned out to be the most “related” to those DNA fragments that were extracted from the Kennewick backbone.
                1. +1
                  2 October 2023 17: 32
                  There are no complaints about your post, I’m just surprised by the VikNik picture
                  1. The comment was deleted.
  17. +2
    1 October 2023 15: 53
    Here is a man who visited everywhere himself, met personally and took interviews on the rocks and photos on the rocks. But not a word about basketball, which was created there.
  18. +2
    1 October 2023 20: 10
    Dekabrist (Victor), dear, geologists cannot tell exactly when Beringia was formed and exactly when it disappeared. They write using the words “approximately”, “around”, “probably”, “apparently”. They write that about 17-20 years ago the level of the Pacific Ocean was lower, about 000-100 meters. Warm Kuroshio Current , apparently warmed the coast of Alaska. And as the glaciers melted, the sea level began to rise and, about 110 years ago, Beringia disappeared. And they remember about volcanoes, which for some reason are not in the state of what is now California, where paleontologists found the remains of giant 6 meter-long salmon with huge teeth. But ichthyologists set all the dates accurately and know exactly everything about the fish...You yourself posted a map where the transition to the state of present-day Alaska, the former inhabitants of Asia was 000 years ago, and all of North America passed 3 25 years ago. The accuracy of the numbers doesn’t bother you? Why not 000 years ago? This is probably due to the dating of human sites, those that archaeologists were able to find... And if we assume that some of the sites in North America are buried by volcanoes and earthquakes (remember Pacific Ring) And they (sites) were there 16 and 000 years ago...
    Many people know how migratory and non-migratory forms of salmon change. By the way, the communist communists decided to make the life of the Kyrgyz unbearable under Soviet rule and, in the 30s of the 20th century, they resettled the Sevan trout to Issyk-Kul. It began to grow to a length of 90 cm (in Armenia it was 60) and a weight of up to 10 kg (in Armenia - up to 4 kg), it gained weight much faster, became a predator, the body proportions and color of the fish changed. Ichthyologists cannot say anything about this for sure. Only assumptions, only hypotheses...
    Ichthyologists cannot solve the mystery of why Pacific salmon (chum salmon, pink salmon, sockeye salmon, chinook salmon, coho salmon, masu salmon), in addition to steelhead salmon, also known as Kamchatka salmon, also known as mykiss, die after spawning. And Atlantic salmon, also known as salmon, spawn many times. There is a hypothesis that it’s all about the larvae of the pearl mussel shell, which lives in a capsule on the gills of salmon and mykiss in cold waters. But this is only a hypothesis; ichthyologists cannot answer for sure.
    1. Fat
      +2
      1 October 2023 21: 31
      Quote: Tests
      Byak communists decided to make the life of the Kyrgyz unbearable under Soviet rule and, in the 30s of the 20th century, they resettled the Sevan trout to Issyk-Kul. It began to grow to a length of 90 cm (in Armenia it was 60) and a weight of up to 10 kg (in Armenia - up to 4 kg), it gained weight much faster, became a predator, the body proportions and color of the fish changed. Ichthyologists cannot say anything about this for sure.

      hi Eugene. Ichthyologists say that Sevan trout (ishkhan) is the largest trout found in the USSR: winter melon reaches 90 cm (there have been cases of catching winter melon up to 104 cm long), weighs up to 17 kg. There are 4 subspecies in total, and all of them (trout) are predators, regardless of size.
      In general, for many fish it can be difficult to determine whether they are predators or whether they are out to chew algae. It depends on the season and the climate.
      On the Volga in the fall, both bream and roach are walking around - they are predatory, only “the scales are wrapped up.” They use a streamer or micro spinner when fishing with a spinning rod.
    2. +2
      1 October 2023 22: 05
      Sevan trout were moved to Issyk-Kul in the 30s of the 20th century. It began to grow to a length of 90 cm (in Armenia it was 60) and a weight of up to 10 kg (in Armenia - up to 4 kg), it gained weight much faster, became a predator, the body proportions and color of the fish changed. Ichthyologists cannot say anything about this for sure.

      Yes, I would not say that they cannot. Judging by this publication -
      https://www.zin.ru/journals/trudyzin/doc/vol_312_1_2/TZ_312_1_2_Dorofeeva.pdf - ничего загадочного в процессе они не видят.
  19. +2
    1 October 2023 20: 24
    Dutch Michel (Mikhel), dear, don’t scare me like that. Do the Danube, Dniester, Southern Bug, Dnieper, Don, Volga, Ural, Ob, Yenisei, Selenga and Amur only flow through the tundra?
  20. +1
    2 October 2023 09: 44
    Tolsty (Andrey Borisovich Pestrikov), respected, fertilized eggs of Gegarkuni (not the largest subspecies of Sevan trout) were transported to Issyk-Kul. I have known since childhood that fish that are not quite predatory under certain conditions become completely predators and cannibals.
    1. Fat
      +2
      2 October 2023 11: 34
      hi Eugene. I deliberately did not focus on the “subspecies” of the resettled Sevan trout. The division into subspecies is quite arbitrary. Very often these are variations of the same species. You know very well that perches are not divided into subspecies, despite the fact that in any sufficiently large body of water inhabited by perches there are two forms of this species. These are “grass” (coastal) and “humpback” (deep). request
      With respect.
  21. +1
    2 October 2023 09: 57
    Dekabrist (Victor), dear, I couldn’t open the link that you gave to Dorofeeva’s work. What is her main conclusion? Changes in Sevan trout in Issyk-Kul were mainly due to higher oxygen content in the water?
    I cannot trust Mrs. Dorofeeva unconditionally. She, together with Mr. Salmanov, in a number of works in the early 2000s proposed that the trout of the White Sea basin could possibly be identified as a separate subspecies. In a number of works by geneticists in the 80-90s of the last century, it was established that there were no qualitative genetic differences between brown trout in the White Sea basin and other northern European populations, although the populations of this basin are distinguished by a high level of diversity in genes encoding proteins.
    1. +2
      2 October 2023 10: 02
      Try copying the link, pasting it into a search, then opening it.
      I cannot trust Mrs. Dorofeeva unconditionally.

      Are you an ichthyologist?