For 9 liters of vodka. How the Bolsheviks destroyed the Spassky Cathedral

678
For 9 liters of vodka. How the Bolsheviks destroyed the Spassky Cathedral
Spassky Cathedral in Penza at the end of the XNUMXth century

“Lying is the religion of slaves and masters ... Truth is the god of a free man!”
Maksim Gorky. At the bottom


History and documents. A cathedral is being built in the center of Penza. Moreover, the construction has entered the final phase - the interior is being decorated with marble. Outside, everything is finished. And the surrounding temple buildings, and bell towers, and the square, and porches. The monument to Karl Marx, standing on the square, was found a new place nearby. They didn’t break it. Moreover, the cathedral is being built on an old site. He has already been here. Moreover, it was built a long time ago. Construction took place in the years 1790-1824 and ended with the construction of the most grandiose and spectacular building in Penza - the Spassky Cathedral, after which the area became known as the Cathedral. In 1923, the Spassky Cathedral was closed, the following year it was given over to the archives, and the square was called Soviet. In 1934, the cathedral was blown up. The destruction of the Spassky Cathedral in Penza is one of the most disgusting events in the history of Penza, and today we’ll talk about it.




Moscow Street, the cathedral and the pedestal under the monument to Tsar Alexander the Liberator, which was never installed. Photograph of the beginning of the century

But the story will have to start not with the history of the cathedral, but again with archival documents. Working in the Penza City Archive, I came across a curious historical document. It can be said, completely unique - the Penza newspaper "Voice of the prisoner." How many years she graduated, when it began to graduate and when it ended, until it was not possible to find out. But what matters most is the very fact of publishing a printed newspaper in prison and, of course, its contents. This is the true spirit of the era. After all, these people sitting behind bars breathed the air of a completely new Russia. In many ways, they looked at life in a new way. That is, it is a very interesting source. However, an anti-religious topic drew my attention to the newspaper. I must say that in Penza in the 20s the “Union of Atheists” operated and the central newspapers “Atheist” and “Atheist at the Machine” were distributed, in short, there was enough anti-religious propaganda. Articles on anti-religious topics were regularly published in the newspaper “Working Penza”, and when believers installed a spotlight on the bell tower of the Peter and Paul Church, to light up Easter night, the newspaper called it “unheard of arrogance”. And now it turned out that the newspaper “The Voice of the Prisoner” published materials on anti-religious topics, moreover, written by the prisoners themselves.


Newspaper "Atheist"


The Voice of the Prisoner

It was then that it occurred to me to look at what was written in this newspaper about the explosion of the Spassky Cathedral. After all, it was an event! Not that there was some kind of searchlight there for Easter ... And also to see how it was reflected in the documents of the city committee of the CPSU (b). I looked at the local history materials and ran into the first difficulty. Nowhere was it indicated when the cathedral was blown up. In 1934, yes! But when exactly? I went to the public relations department of the Penza Patriarchate, introduced myself, explained what and why, and they told me that the cathedral was blown up in August, but it is not known what date.


Atheism then grew even in prisons!

And how do you command me to understand? This is not an old water pump, which they took and demolished - this is a cathedral in the city center, and a huge building. The explosion of the cathedral (“an enterprise producing opium for the people”) is an event of a grandiose scale! And neither the day nor time of this action is known. Here's how: cooked and hid the spoons! You cannot say otherwise.


In the cell, the priest and the deacon. For what, interesting?

Well, well, at least a month to find out. He ordered "Work Penza" for 1934, flipped through all the numbers for August. It's empty! About the explosion of the cathedral NOTHING. As if he was not there.


"Religious foreman"

Well, I went to the party archive. He raised the materials for 1934. It's empty. They discuss thieves, robbers of public property, various other issues. But no one raised the issue of the explosion of the cathedral and during the whole year it was not discussed at the level of the city committee (there was no regional committee then, Penza entered the Tambov region). Where did the explosive command come from? Where did the explosives come from, who was laying it?


The area after the explosion of the cathedral. It hosts a gathering of cyclists!

But most importantly - why did not the newspaper report this? Since we are fighting religion, this is an excellent occasion for you to write that we, the Bolsheviks, irreconcilable fighters against religious dope, successively realizing the ideas of Marx - Lenin - Stalin, destroy this stronghold of obscurantism, and let the dawn of reason shine on Penza! Well, something like that ... But no, everything was done secretly, thieves ...


So he was at the beginning of the XX century

The PR law is this: since there is no official information, it is replaced by rumors. And it is natural that after the explosion they didn’t talk about him. They survived in the memoirs of the Penza people to this day. They say that a lot of people came. But there were a lot of police. Therefore, people were silent. Most cried. First dismantled the bell. They removed the fasteners, and he remained hanging on one rope. All workers refused to do this. We started looking for a volunteer. One local alcoholic called out for three quarters of vodka (9 liters, not bad, however!). When the bell fell, it touched the ceiling, and there was such a loud bang that many people even got their ears closed. A drunkard fell unconscious, he was shell-shocked. And three days later he died!

Cathedral bombing brought cadets of the demolition school. For all cadets this was a shock, but for military people the order is an order, it is not supposed to discuss it. At the base of the cathedral, in the walls, which had a thickness of more than three meters, drilled pits and laid charges of ammonal. And the whole square was surrounded by police. The first explosion thundered, pits were knocked out, but the building could not be destroyed. The charges doubled, but that didn't help either. Only on the third attempt did the cathedral fall apart into huge boulders. They did not bother to remove them until 1947! And they were also undermined, the strength was masonry.


A new cathedral is being built ...

It was said that after the explosion of the cathedral, a ghost in a white shroud began to walk across the square. Three security officers were sent to catch a ghost. They didn’t catch him, but saw how he suddenly appeared near the wall of the governor’s house and then seemed to fall underground under the site of the former monument to Karl Marx.

In general, things got worse nowhere and only showed the people the weakness of the existing government. Everything had to be done quickly. Break the bell cable with a dynamite saber, do not spare explosives for detonation (pre-train in some church outside the city!) In order to detonate once. And the main thing is to immediately remove all the destruction so that nothing reminds us that the cathedral was there at all. So as in the song: “Here it was, and no!” Because there is nothing stronger than the Bolshevik party and their iron Bolshevik will!

But the most important thing is, of course, the cowardly silence of the fact of the explosion of the cathedral in the regional newspaper. An article about celebrating Easter is bad - here it is, but a joyful article that another dope nest in the country ceased to exist did not appear! What, the journalists were afraid that their hands would dry out? Or that believers in a dark alley will fill their faces?


And here he is now!

Well, the modern history of the cathedral began in 2010. On April 7, the foundation stone was laid, and on February 28, 2011, the foundation was poured with concrete under the bell tower. In December 2014, the main dome of the cathedral was installed. To date, the construction of the cathedral, together with a bell tower 82,5 meters high (with a 27-storey building) has already been completed. Even the basement here is seven meters high! It remains to lay the walls with granite panels, lay a stone floor, as well as finish the basement and first floors.


The modern bell tower is taller and slimmer than the old one!

“The Spassky Cathedral is composed of 2 million 200 thousand bricks. It can accommodate almost three thousand parishioners, ”they told me in the information department of the Penza diocese.

Interior finishing work is the most painstaking, time-consuming and costly. According to experts, in terms of investment, the finish will exceed the construction itself!


"The sun over the cathedral"

“Now you will not see anything interesting, inside the church everything is in the woods, plastering is in progress. We plan to complete this work this summer. Only after plastering can artists start painting the temple, ”said Andrei Timofeev, an artist-designer and icon painter who is involved in the interior of the cathedral. - Of course, the design will be conducted according to all the canons. Unfortunately, no sketches of the decoration of the old temple, which stood on this site until 1934, have been preserved. There are fragmentary 4-5 watercolors of Makarov, and that’s all. Unfortunately, they cannot be restored to their old paintings. ”

According to him, Moscow icon painters are ready to get down to business and are now developing design sketches. The cathedral will have a unique marble floor: made of natural stone, the shades of which will be selected among marbles in various parts of the world.


Scaffolding inside

“It will be a built-in floor with a pattern, perhaps it will be ordered in China or Italy,” continues Andrei Timofeev. - On the walls, we decided to make panels 1,5-2 meters high, made of natural or artificial stone. It all depends on funding. ”


Look up - the hat is falling off your head

Gold details will be truly gold. But the domes, although they look golden, are actually trimmed with golden sheets of a very strong and durable material - nitrotitanium. And the cathedral itself will be filled with light and air. And this is indeed so, and now let it be filled to the top with scaffolding.


Behind the trees of the park ...
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  1. +52
    29 March 2020 07: 11
    “Lying is the religion of slaves and masters ... Truth is the god of a free man!”
    Maksim Gorky. At the bottom

    100 years have passed .. and looking at what the new nouveaux riches are doing from the authorities .. I completely agree with the classic of Soviet literature. education and medicine are no longer needed .. all hope for priests and bishops.
    1. +41
      29 March 2020 07: 52
      In the USSR, at each plant there were clubs, cinema halls, cultural palaces, libraries, stadiums, hospitals. Now, no factories, no factories, and not all of this. But now it is entirely shopping centers, boutiques, funeral agencies and, of course, church parishes.
      1. -12
        29 March 2020 14: 44
        Quote: siberalt
        In the USSR, at each plant there were clubs, cinema halls, cultural palaces, libraries, stadiums, hospitals. Now, no factories, no factories, and not all of this. But now it is entirely shopping centers, boutiques, funeral agencies and, of course, church parishes.

        True, there are more sports facilities, and libraries are not needed for reasons of Internet access.
    2. +26
      29 March 2020 08: 52
      Here are a few excerpts from the laws [1] of the “blessed” Russian Empire, which “helped” the common people to constantly “improve” spiritually.

      “For“ non-existence in a confession ”, for the first time, charge the ruble for the first time for the non-residents and townspeople, 2 rubles for the second time, 3 rubles for the third time .; from peasants - 5, 10 and 15 kopecks, respectively. ”


      “For concealment of the“ non-marketers ”of the priest, punish 5 rubles for the first case, then 10 and 15, and for the fourth time - deprivation of authority and sent to hard labor”


      See the section on Crimes Against Faith.

      Article 182. Blasphemy in the church - exile and hard labor up to 20 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization; in another public place - exile and penal servitude up to 8 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization. Article 183. Non-public blasphemy - exile to Siberia and corporal punishment.

      But what threatened those who risked criticizing Christianity:

      Article 186. Blasphemy, vilification, censure, criticism of Christianity without intent - imprisonment in a house of up to 2 years, imprisonment up to 2 years.

      Article 187. Printed and written criticism of Christianity - reference to Siberia, corporal punishment.

      Article 188. Mockery of Christianity, intentionally - the conclusion of the year, unintentionally - up to 3 months.

      Article 189. Production, distribution of articles of faith in obscene form - intent - punishment in accordance with Art. 183; without intent - imprisonment up to 6 months or arrest up to 3 weeks.


      Article 190. Distraction from the faith: non-violent - exile up to 10 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization; violent - reference up to 15 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization.

      Article 191. Departure from faith - deprivation of rights for the time of deviation from faith.

      Article 192. If one of the parents of a non-Christian faith brings up children not in the Orthodox faith - divorce, exile to Siberia.

      Article 195. Seduction from Orthodoxy to another religion - exile, corporal punishment, correctional labor up to 2 years. Under forced coercion - exile to Siberia, corporal punishment.

      Article 196. Apostasy - a ban on contact with children, until returning to faith.



      https://www.kramola.info/vesti/religija/nasazhdenie-pravoslaviya-v-carskoy-rossii
      https://work-way.com/blog/2015/01/06/pravda-o-pravoslavnom-narode/
      that there Spain this obscurantism all happened in the 20th century in Russia. The temples were blown up without any regret - this is the reaction of Russian people to the centuries-old spiritual priest tyranny.
      1. -3
        29 March 2020 14: 02
        Bar, was paganism better?
        1. -2
          29 March 2020 14: 09
          And what exactly confuses you in it?
          1. -1
            30 March 2020 08: 33
            Remember the "Ice Age", where they wanted to shove Sida EMNIP into a crater or something similar in order to prevent some kind of emergency and a masterpiece justification: "What if it helps?" Well, paganism just by definition makes absolutely any game justified. "What if we angered the god of the bush, let's make a sacrifice to him." Monotheistic, or polytheistic religions with a distinct pantheon of gods, at least prevent such schizophrenia, because in people's heads, if not a scientific picture of the world, then at least it does not spell out that someone needs to be sacrificed. Various extremely dangerous modern sects from the same opera.
            1. 0
              30 March 2020 09: 57
              Oh, how, the specifics were brought up! That is why, for some reason, when you say something good about paganism, the warriors of the true God or simply latent-liberal Russophobes immediately fill in and say that this cannot be argued, since science does not know anything about this at all, etc., but here there is always a charm, and some "scientific" data are immediately found. In short, infa (or rather heresy) where did you get this?
        2. -9
          29 March 2020 14: 54
          Quote: vladcub
          Bar, was paganism better?


          not paganism, Russian faith, Russian faith was for the Russian people, but this Christianity for anyone, but not for the Russians.
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 20: 48
            In fact, the Christian faith of Russians is slippery: you do not recognize the traditional scientific history, and scientific history does not recognize Fomenkovism. We don’t have a time machine to check who is right
            1. 0
              30 March 2020 07: 23
              Quote: vladcub
              In fact, the Christian faith of Russians is slippery: you do not recognize the traditional scientific history, and scientific history does not recognize Fomenkovism. We don’t have a time machine to check who is right


              I have long had my own evidence that the OI is falsified.
              1. 0
                30 March 2020 08: 34
                So you just don’t know the story.
                1. 0
                  31 March 2020 00: 47
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  So you just don’t know the story

                  people didn’t want to go to these churches, isn’t that clear? So people had reasons, and they were forced by force.
                2. 0
                  31 March 2020 00: 52
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  So you just don’t know the story.


                  tell me if you know what is happening?
        3. -3
          29 March 2020 14: 58
          Quote: vladcub
          Bar, was paganism better?

          Who cares?
        4. -1
          30 March 2020 08: 23
          And paganism was formally abolished in the 988th.
          1. +2
            31 March 2020 06: 00
            The church was separated from the state in 1917, formally it is now separated, but I observe something inverse process
      2. 0
        30 March 2020 07: 46
        Quote: Bar1
        Here are a few excerpts from the laws [1] of the “blessed” Russian Empire, which “helped” the common people to constantly “improve” spiritually.
        It's only the beginning...
        So far only "the law on the protection of the sentient believers", after the changes in the Constitution ...
      3. +1
        30 March 2020 19: 48
        ,, Without any regret blew up the temples ,, in Russia in the XX century, Bar1, ,, ordinary people, and ,, who joined them ,, bad people.
        Adult people should know that not all, homo sapiens, human beings.
        There are only two personified Absolute Categories - Good and evil, God and Satan. Not all of the two-legged ones choose the side of the Creator. If you KNOW this, you will understand the DANGER that comes from ,, ordinary nonhumans ,, (short, convenient and very true in connection with the message - ,, ufo ,,). Only in the trunk of a 4-4bis mine in the city of Stalin (Donetsk), during the occupation, German and Russian-speaking UFOs dumped more than 75 thousand Soviet civilians. Do you have children, Bar1? A beautiful wife? Now fashionable are stories about ,, time travelers ,, ... Do not want to be in Stalin's perida, say, the spring of 1943?
        Only ORTHODOXY, only RIGHT relations between the creation of (man) and the Creator (God) allow to separate, wheat, from, chaff ,,,, rams, from, goats,, cholovki (sounds good in Ukrainian) from UFO. It’s like an OZK and a gas mask to protect against coronavirus, like a “gun”, a thermometer for remote temperature determination in the current pandemic.
        Without ORTHODOXY, human beings easily become successful. This was clearly demonstrated by both 1941 and 1991. .. And show our days. People without a threat are a DANGER for themselves, for those around them, for the country. This was well understood not only in the Russian Empire, but also, for example, in the Eastern Roman Empire of the XNUMXth (!!) Century. Understood and for and s and a and l and with b. With a UFO, NEVER succeeded and will not succeed ,, hug ,,,. As, for example, this did not work out for those who planned to make soap from your ancestors and those who defended the world from ,, brown ,, UFOs during WWII
        1. -1
          31 March 2020 00: 51
          Quote: evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
          Adult people should know that not all, homo sapiens, human beings.


          This is true,
          but the time has come to throw stones ...
      4. -2
        30 March 2020 23: 46
        "Bloody" tsarist regime.
        In total, from 1825 to 1905, 1397 people were sentenced to death in tsarist Russia, 894 people were executed. The military courts, operating for 8 months from 1906 to the beginning of 1907, issued a little more than a thousand death sentences, 683 people were actually executed.

        "Kind humane communists"
        The number of executions is from 680 thousand for 1937-1938. According to the Special Department of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs on the number of those arrested and convicted by the bodies of the Cheka, OGPU, NKVD, and the Ministry of State Security of the USSR: from one and a half million arrested in 1937-1938 1.345 thousand were convicted, including 681.692 thousand were sentenced to capital punishment. From 1962 to 1989 about 22 thousand people were executed.
        1. 0
          April 1 2020 16: 38
          "a little over a thousand death sentences were passed, 683 people were actually executed", but how many were killed without trial?
          1. -5
            April 2 2020 04: 18
            Without trial and investigation, they liked to kill communists according to the law of "revolution".
          2. 0
            April 6 2020 10: 05
            Quote: Astra wild
            , 683 people were actually executed "

            They actually executed those who, according to the current classification, belonged to terrorists. Or did you kiss the gums for street battles of 1905? For the murder of civil servants, too?
    3. +29
      29 March 2020 09: 45
      I will say a controversial thing. But even purely from an aesthetic and architectural point of view, many temples are truly masterpieces. Signed on instagram for one account, there they remove abandoned temples from the outback. And how many really magnificent buildings. It was just that they should not have been blown up, but left as museums, architectural monuments. After all, history.
      1. +17
        29 March 2020 10: 51
        This is not a controversial thing, really masterpieces. One must understand the psychology of that time. If the Russian State and the church were separated in the sense that the church did not intrude on secular issues and affairs, then people would behave differently with respect to priests and churches. Of course there was church oppression, from here and reaction. Although I consider that what is happening is overkill.
        1. +8
          29 March 2020 15: 26
          Comrades, Denisk and 210 OKV ,,, completely agree: there were amazing works of architecture: St. Basil's Cathedral, the Assumption Cathedral, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, the church in Kizhi. By the way, who knows what condition the church is in? Somewhere information flashed that the church was burned by the homeless and it was unlikely to be restored.
          It was much wiser to preserve these temples.
          With all due respect to the builders who restored the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, this is a remake. A remake is always inferior to the original.
          When you look at St. Isaac’s Cathedral or St. Basil’s Cathedral, one can imagine with what reverence and diligence the masons worked, and the remake, perhaps out of 10, is one believer who will do with reverential reverence
      2. +3
        29 March 2020 17: 15
        there they remove abandoned temples from the outback

        on the channel Russia Culture at the beginning of this month there was a story about an abandoned church, and even more protected by the state, caring citizens at their own expense support the building as much as 4 can not let it fall apart. But the priests - no! not a penny! but to squeeze out part of the square under the temple or at the planetarium here they are the first.
      3. 0
        30 March 2020 08: 24
        And who will contain?
      4. 0
        30 March 2020 08: 33
        Of course, they should have been used as museums. But now a former hooligan came to power, who used to write obscene inscriptions on fences and monuments: “They were washed, but they reappeared.” On the other hand, in every old city there was nowhere to step to not to get into small parishes, cemeteries. They don't write about this, but they were punished for the demolition of a large church. And very severely.
    4. -13
      29 March 2020 11: 06
      Quote: withoutreverse
      Lies are the religion of slaves and masters... The truth is the god of a free man!»
      Maksim Gorky. At the bottom

      100 years have passed ..

      I completely agree: this is clearly seen in the example of the Bolsheviks: from the first moment of their existence to the last they Lied continuously: it’s enough to remember the terrible 33 year: they excitedly shouted that the peasants had begun ...wealthy peopleAnd at this time, on a peaceful day, more of these "wealthy" died of hunger than died on the day ... WWII! And NONE of them remembered these fellow citizens, did not remember them - just as there were never them ...

      The same applies to Russian Culture: no one has ever brought her more damage, destruction, oblivion or destruction than they are: blown up, burned, plundered, corrupted tens of thousands of monumentsRussian Culture, Russian Glory, Russian Spirituality: more than HALF of historical buildings and monuments of the Kremlin, the tombs of POZHARSKY and MININ, BAGRATION and NAKHIMOV, KORNILOV and LAZAREV, the main monuments of the Revolution of 1812 and the Second World War, to the Russian commanders, writers, treasures, treasures, destroyed The glories, world monuments of Russian Architecture in Moscow, Vladimir, Suzdal, Petrozavodsk, etc., are burnt, cut, washed away millions of icons, paintings, frescoes, books, the names of Russian heroes immortalized on marble planks of Moscow, Kronstadt, Vladimir and pr-Razbi We turned into rubble and chopping blocks for cutting meat, in the Monument of Heroes of Plevna-made ... a toilet on the slabs with their names, like vandals of Ancient Rome, from a stone, for example, they built a valuable monument of the Russian barroco-temple of Dmitry Salunsky Suzdal ... hunchbacks, the ancient Kostroma Kremlin was blown up, the Monument-Temple of Pzharsky from getting rid of the Tatar invasion, etc., etc., there are numbers ....

      Many thanks to the author for the raised topic of preservation and restoration of the monuments of our beautiful CULTURE from nonexistence. hi
      1. +13
        29 March 2020 11: 36
        Quote: Olgovich
        The same applies to Russian Culture: no one has ever brought her more damage, destruction, oblivion or destruction than they

        The same can be said of the church - when Christianity was planted in Russia with fire and sword, all references to the pre-Christian history and culture of the Russian people were burned.
        1. 0
          29 March 2020 12: 24
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The same can be said of the church - when Christianity was planted in Russia with fire and sword, all references to the pre-Christian history and culture of the Russian people were burned.

          List the "scorched" specifically.
          Or WHAT then talk about?
          1. -1
            29 March 2020 21: 25
            Quote: Olgovich
            List the "scorched" specifically.
            Everything: a book to Velesov, a museum of peruns, a messenger of the University of Gardamir ... You can’t list in total what you have been planning for 5 thousand years. The Sumerians were sailors, and the Russians were purely cultural.
            1. +1
              30 March 2020 03: 54
              Bulletin of Gardamir University, of course, a great loss, but still the greatest moral suffering is the loss of 30 volumes of the collected works of the sorcerer Perdonius, published in 2534 BC. e. in the printing house "Strela Perun" at the Kashcheev temple.
          2. +1
            30 March 2020 08: 35
            Why did the Old Believers run? Under Peter the Great, and even earlier.
        2. +8
          29 March 2020 15: 35
          Here Fomenko and Co. now fantasize as they want.
          Just let me tell you: pagans with no less zeal fought with the first Christians. Another question was who was more cruel.
          ANY change of religion or ideology is accompanied by violence
          1. +3
            29 March 2020 15: 41
            Quote: vladcub
            pagans with no less zeal fought with the first Christians

            In Rome, yes. In Russia, Christianity was planted from above, by decree. On the topic of violence, I completely agree with you, and therefore I hate the talk that the grateful people spat on the faith of their ancestors and joyfully adopted Christianity. hi
            1. +4
              29 March 2020 16: 06
              Here you can discuss a little bit. After all, Christians in Kiev were before St. Vladimir. True, he was not from the Puritans, but this is so in passing. It’s supposed that there were many Christians in Kiev
              1. 0
                29 March 2020 16: 11
                Quote: vladcub
                that there were many Christians in Kiev

                There was no persecution of them, ridicule, no more.
                1. +2
                  29 March 2020 17: 04
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: vladcub
                  that there were many Christians in Kiev

                  There was no persecution of them, ridicule, no more.

                  At first, everything was not unambiguous with Christianity in Russia. Svyatoslav was defeated by the Byzantines in Bulgaria (near Dorostol in 971). Own Christian warriors were found guilty of which they committed massacre. And just as punishment Svyatoslav threatened to return to Kiev to other Christians.
                  "Then the devil lift the hearts of the wicked nobleman, having begun slandering the Christians who are in the army, supposedly the fall of the howl happened from the anger of the false gods by their Christians. baptized Rus) with joy to the torment of the idyakh, and the faith of Christ was baptized and worship idols I don’t want ... he, seeing their disobedience, raging at the presbyters, ostensibly by charm to some people, and in their faith they claim, the ambassador to Kiev, led the temple Christians to ruin and cohabit. And he himself will soon go, although all Christians will destroy "

                  According to some historians, it was the frightened residents of Kiev (from noble people) who were afraid of the return of Svyatoslav and were the force that set the Pechenegs against the returning Svyatoslav.
                  1. +3
                    29 March 2020 17: 08
                    Quote: Leshy1975
                    Own Christian warriors found guilty
                    History knows many examples of when traitors were citizens of the same faith as the enemy. request
                    Quote: Leshy1975
                    and were the force that set the Pechenegs on returning Svyatoslav.

                    It is also possible.
                    1. +3
                      29 March 2020 17: 21
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      Own Christian warriors found guilty
                      History knows many examples of when traitors were citizens of the same faith as the enemy. request
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      and were the force that set the Pechenegs on returning Svyatoslav.

                      It is also possible.

                      Here it is rather not about real betrayal, but about the conflict of Christianity with paganism.
                      Here (historical-articles.blogspot.com) you can read briefly about those events:
                      Svyatoslav was accompanied by priests who were to unravel the will of the gods. The priests, as the cause of the two defeats, indicated Christian warriors. The explanation could be extremely simple: the god of the Russians is indignant that part of the warriors converted to Christianity, and therefore does not want to help the Rus, among whom are warriors who believe in another god. It was then that the story told by Tatishchev happened. Those Christians who did not want to abdicate were executed, including the brother of Svyatoslav Gleb. And ambassadors were sent to Kiev with the order to destroy all Christian churches. This conflict, which occurred on religious grounds, was the first such conflict known to us from written sources. And precisely in it, obviously, lies the secret of the death of Svyatoslav.

                      PS It is hardly possible now to establish exactly how everything was in reality. But reading about those distant events is extremely interesting. hi
                      1. 0
                        29 March 2020 17: 26
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        historical-articles.blogspot.com

                        I read, thanks. hi
                        P.S. Interestingly, the Greek historian Leo the Deacon calls the wars of Svyatoslav Scythians.
                      2. +3
                        29 March 2020 21: 01
                        History must be carefully read: it teaches a lot. In Gorky, Isergil said something interesting about this. Unfortunately, I read it a long time ago and I don’t remember her words
                      3. 0
                        April 1 2020 16: 42
                        Take and read so as not to regret
                2. +6
                  29 March 2020 18: 03
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  ridicule, no more

                  They killed on confessional grounds. Even in the annals of this is said. Not that much, but it happened. And it happened more often than Christians killed the Gentiles.
                  1. +3
                    29 March 2020 18: 26
                    Hello Michael. hi
                    Quote: Trilobite Master
                    And it happened more often than Christians killed the Gentiles.

                    It depends on what period of time. In the pre-Christian era, (not that many) Christians were killed. After the adoption of Christianity, the nobility of Russia began a much more widespread persecution of the pagans. There are few references to pagan persecution in history, but here you need to understand that the real picture is more bloody. Because the official chroniclers were engaged, and were silent about the real rejection of Christianity of the people. As the ratings are being straightened to the president. as they now report on negative growth in reality. The winners write the story.
                    1. +4
                      29 March 2020 19: 02
                      Yes, Igor, good evening. hi
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      The history is written by the winners.

                      Nevertheless, the annals reflect both the facts of the beating of pagans by Christians and the opposite facts. The chroniclers, of course, gave their interpretation of what was happening, but they did not gloss over the facts. In any case, it would be nice for a person who claims the opposite to reinforce his words with something other than his own speculation.
                      Yes, the chroniclers wrote something like "motivated by the devil, godless filthy" and, of course, interpreted certain excesses exclusively in one direction, they say, these are bad, instigated by the devil, and those are martyrs (if they died) or heroes (if they won ), but the very facts of indignation and punitive operations (when they were) did not hide.
                      Christianity in Russia was not approved at once, it can be seen, but there was no significant, ideological, organized opposition; moreover, prayer and sorcery existed side by side for a very long and relatively painless time, and in many ways, they exist now, take the same pancakes Shrovetide, Christmas carnivals, etc. The Soviet historians unambiguously perceived and interpreted those performances that took place against Christianity in Russia as episodes of the class struggle or, at best, political struggles for power, this may not be entirely true, but, nevertheless, a rational kernel in these constructions, certainly there is considerable. The basis of conflicts in the form of religious hatred has always and everywhere been the economy, and religious differences only painted it in different colors, giving some variety and national color. Russia is fully concerned.
                      1. +5
                        29 March 2020 21: 12
                        Michael, good evening. You raised an interesting topic: the growth of paganism into Christianity. Probably, the following was observed with Shrovetide and Easter: in the villages a new faith and an old one coexisted for a long time. Gradually in popular perception, paganism is intertwined with Christianity.
                      2. +4
                        29 March 2020 23: 18
                        Greetings, colleague. hi
                        The topic is really interesting, as far as I know, this issue has been studied enough, but personally he never really interested me. In general, religious topics require, let’s say, specific training. smile
                        However, we can say with confidence that Christianity is also rooted in paganism, and paganism is always based on observing natural phenomena, first of all, the sun. The main Christian holidays, in fact, are the same as those of the pagans - the days of the solstice and the equinox, certain saints who are "responsible" for some "their" branch of activity correspond to "specialized" pagan gods, etc., therefore the first easily and, as if by itself, replaced the second. The ritual part of pagan beliefs held out for the longest time and, one might say, partially holds up to this day, at least in those places where traditions are strong. Yes, and in a city where traditions are weak, they still say they do pah-pah-pah over their left shoulder or say "mind me." smile
                      3. 0
                        30 March 2020 18: 00
                        Mikhail, you’re right: for example, in order not to jinx a knock on a tree, I like cats, but I like them to cross
                      4. +2
                        30 March 2020 18: 26
                        Quote: Astra wild
                        knock on wood

                        But this superstition is more likely from the Christian tradition. The cross on which Jesus was crucified was wooden - hence the custom.
              2. -2
                30 March 2020 14: 01
                Quote: vladcub
                After all, Christians in Kiev were before St. Vladimir. ... One must think that there were many Christians in Kiev

                Enough to declare them to those who are now called the "fifth column" and to arrange mass repressions against them with a massive pogrom of churches ...
      2. 0
        30 March 2020 04: 03
        Lies are the lot and hobby of Olgych and others like him. Pro-American and pro-British plakunov on "tsarubatyushka".
        1. +2
          30 March 2020 11: 21
          Remember, as in the White Guard at Bulgakov, "In Russia - the Orthodox Faith, Autocratic Power, everything else is madness"
          By the way, especially for the “Communists and other leftists," you do not agree with Stalin, who restored the Patriarchate for some reason during the crucial period of the war?
          I guess he just did it
          Well, regarding Gorky (Peshkov), an ordinary liberal writer, Nietzschean in his youth, bohemian in adulthood, a Gulag singer at the end of his life, is absolutely unprincipled, but you can only read from him “The Life of Klim Samgin”

          And to neopagans - forward to Ukraine, to good offices, there are your ideological friends
          Orthodoxy is the foundation of Russia, our ancestors gave life for it and accepted innumerable sufferings, it supports and saves us in difficult times
          1. -2
            30 March 2020 13: 18
            Well, and what does all that you have written have to do with Olgych’s deceit?
            Quote: 16329
            Do you disagree with Stalin, who restored the Patriarchate for some reason during the crucial period of the war?
            And what does this have to do with the deceit of Olga? Well restored, so what? Stalin and Churchill met at conferences that from this Church became a friend of Russia? It was just that Stalin needed a tool to confront the ROCOR, is he aware of their anti-Soviet, and therefore Russophobic, position?
            1. +3
              30 March 2020 14: 19
              Everything is simple for you, like Stalin needed the instrument, and the appeal “Brothers and Sisters ...”, and the order of Alexander Nevsky, gold epaulets, etc.
              These are all tools ...
              Russian patriotism is a tool of Stalin, in your opinion

              It’s just that Stalin was the only one of the Soviet leaders who fully understood the value of the spiritual Factor in the life of the people and the country, relying on the traditional values ​​of Russia, he saved both his system of power and Russia,
              Unfortunately, his close-minded followers forgot about it, Khrushchev began New persecutions of the church, he was actively supported by the children of the uninhabited “Commissars in dusty helmets,” and this ultimately led to the collapse of the USSR and the terrible time of the 90s In an atmosphere of longing and unbelief
              But in the midst of all this horror and nightmare, having crossed out all forecasts and theories, traditional Russia began to rise again, in the most remote places new churches and monasteries were restored and erected, symbolizing the revival of Russian Orthodoxy as the spiritual basis of Russian statehood
              1. 0
                30 March 2020 14: 24
                Quote: 16329
                Russian patriotism is a tool of Stalin, in your opinion
                Namely, not so much Russian as Soviet.
                Quote: 16329
                Unfortunately, his close-minded followers forgot about this, Khrushchev began a new persecution of the church
                Khrushchev is a follower of Stalin? Are you raving
                Quote: 16329
                in the most remote places new temples and monasteries were restored and erected
                Oh yeah! Either protests have recently emerged against "churches within walking distance".
                1. 0
                  30 March 2020 14: 35
                  Of course, Khrushchev is a follower of Stalin, the head of the same state, one of his closest associates,
                  and Stalin’s appeal to Russian patriotism is his logical choice after abandoning the “world revolution”, the course towards “socialism in a separate country” and in conditions of conflict with the Trotskyists-Leftists
                  And the same ones who go to left-liberal rallies in Moscow are protesting against the temples
                  This is normal
                  Leftists and liberals are always allies in the struggle against Russia, as has always been
                  1. 0
                    30 March 2020 14: 38
                    Quote: 16329
                    And the same ones who go to left-liberal rallies in Moscow are protesting against the temples
                    There’s no need of lies, the locals go, who need a square and not another chapel with Lexus at the entrance.
                    1. +1
                      30 March 2020 15: 39
                      In the "crowd" are always ordinary people, and they suffer from the actions of revolutionaries of all types.
                      1. -2
                        30 March 2020 18: 22
                        Quote: 16329
                        In the "crowd" are always ordinary people

                        People like you and Olgych always deny "ordinary people" the right to think independently.
                      2. -2
                        30 March 2020 18: 28
                        Ordinary people have no time to “think”, they are busy with business, and this is often used by some, so to speak, “thinkers”
                      3. -1
                        31 March 2020 06: 42
                        Quote: 16329
                        Ordinary people have no time to “think”, they are busy with business
                        Yes, it is already clear that it is harmful for a "common" person to have free time, he must either work hard until a hernia, or pray, as in "Russia we have lost." You probably regret that the Bolsheviks and Communists did not understand this, and limited the working time to 8 hours and canceled the obligatory "sacraments" of the "pastors."
              2. +1
                30 March 2020 18: 07
                I am not pleased to realize this, but you are right: "the only Soviet leader understood the significance of the spiritual factor"
      3. 0
        30 March 2020 08: 05
        Quote: Olgovich
        continuously LIED: it’s enough to recall the terrible 33 year: they shouted excitedly that the peasants had become .... wealthy people
        Lying you!
        The peasants, with the exception of the kulaks, who "pressed" practically the entire village, lived very poorly.
        If we compare the economic situation of the peasant under tsarist and Soviet rule, it turns out that the average peasant began to live better (tolerably), and his fist was relocated or even shot. We will not speak about the causes, necessity, and excesses during collectivization.
        1. 0
          30 March 2020 08: 35
          Quote: Simargl
          You are lying!

          You are given a SPECIFIC example, you are in response, an empty CHAW.
          Quote: Simargl
          If we compare the economic situation of the peasant under tsarist and Soviet rule, it turns out that the average peasant began to live better
          owls peasants paid tribute that power (as Stalin put it), and the defeated people pay tribute.

          Even just EAT, as in 1913, they could only be forty years later (Report of the Central Statistical Board of the CCS 55 g).

          So RUN FOR ALL FORCES from the damned impoverished village — from slavishly unpaid labor and hopeless life: only in the Non-Chernozem Region by 1985 did empty MILLIONS of residential buildings and MILLIONS of abandoned arable land, pastures and vanished ...60 Russian villages-catastrophe!
          1. -1
            30 March 2020 13: 21
            Quote: Olgovich
            You are given a SPECIFIC example, you are in response, an empty CHAW.

            Is this such a concrete example? Now this is nothing unsupported besides the oblique font?
            Quote: Olgovich
            it’s enough to recall the terrible year 33: they shouted excitedly that the peasants had become .... wealthy people,
          2. -3
            30 March 2020 17: 21
            Quote: Olgovich
            You are given a SPECIFIC example
            Specific LIES! What I pointed out.

            Quote: Olgovich
            peasants paid tribute
            The peasants paid rent and tithes. The peasants did not even pay tribute to the "Mongolo-Tatars"! You are lying again.

            Quote: Olgovich
            Even just EAT, as in 1913 they could only forty years later
            The fact that Russia was ahead of the pace of production in some countries is just statistics for the sake of royal worshipers! If you look at GDP per capita, production efficiency, etc. - We were approximately at the level of modern Cote d'Ivoire (exaggerate).

            Quote: Olgovich
            That's RUN ALL FORCES from the damned impoverished village
            The whole history of industrialization is fleeing from the village, if you do not know. Moreover, in enlightened England, people from the earth were driven by fire and sword! Do not know this or omit this fact to lie?
            Moreover, as soon as the industrialization of the village happened, an insane amount of hands was released! If you consider it simple - one person can work with a power of 150-200 watts, a horse - 400-1000 watts (peasant-400-600 watts, because they were inferior, if any). The first tractors - from 15 kW, i.e. were more powerful than 100 people or 25-35 horses, while the attendants for one tractor were 2-3 people (from the operator to the tanker), and he can work almost around the clock.
            Simply put, you are misleading the people by incorrectly indicating causal relationships.
            Yes, the equipment was always expensive and the one-on-one could not purchase it and increase its productivity tenfold. And this is the reason and the need for collectivization. But you do not mention it. Why? you do not know, or with the aim of misleading people?

            Quote: Olgovich
            and ... 60 Russian villages are a disaster!
            What a horror! Stalin shot? Or did people stupidly disperse from the zone of risky farming for a long ruble and a better share? Those. you are misleading people by focusing on "terrible destruction" (what?) !!!

            Quote: Olgovich
            By 1985, the non-chernozem region was empty POMILLION residential buildings and MILLIONS of abandoned arable land, pastures
            And what about the production? Did it fall? Yes!!!...
            ... oh! No! You are LIE again! People abandoned the "bad" land, unable to withstand the competition with black soil and fertilizers. It's like comparing the price of potatoes: if imported from the black earth, it costs 30 rubles / kg on the market, and if you grow it yourself, it costs 300 rubles / kg. But you either don’t understand, or you’re LIE, that you don’t understand how the cost of a crucian carp can be 10000 r per kg
            1. -1
              30 March 2020 19: 21
              Quote: Simargl
              Specific LIES! What I pointed out.

              Get the ignoramus on:
              From the speech of the party leader Feb 19 1933 g (hunger peak)
              By expanding the collective farm construction, we have ensured that all this mass of poor people are involved in collective farms, gave them a secure existence there

              What does it mean? This means that at least 20 million peasants, at least 20 million poor turned in SECURED people.

              This is a great achievement, comrades. That is achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet reached.

              On this day, about 20 "wealthy people" died of hunger, as on other days from autumn 000 to summer 32 BC.
              Indeed, the world did NOT know SUCH in its history, and even in peacetime.

              Chop it on your forehead
              Quote: Simargl
              The peasants paid rent and tithes. The peasants did not even pay tribute to the "Mongolo-Tatars"! You are lying again.

              Get, ignoramus, at:
              Stalin: In this case, the situation with the peasantry is as follows: it pays the state not just regular taxes, direct and indirecte but it still overpaying at relatively high prices for industrial goods - this is, firstly, and more or less less than on prices of agricultural products - this is the second.

              It is peasant surcharge in the interest of raising industry serving the whole country, including the peasantry. It is like “TRIBUTE”something like supertax which we are forced to take temporarily in order to maintain and develop further the current pace of industrial development, to provide industry for the whole country, to further increase the welfare of the village and then completely destroy this additional tax, these “scissors” between the city and the village.

              This tribute remained until 1953
              Quote: Simargl
              that Russia was ahead of the pace of production in some countries - this is just statistics for the sake of royal worshipers!

              ONCE AGAIN, for the dull: Even EAT, as in 1913 they could only forty years later (Report of the Central Statistical Board of the CCS 55 g).
              Quote: Simargl
              The whole history of industrialization is fleeing from the village, if you do not know. Moreover, in enlightened England, people from the earth were driven by fire and sword! Do not know this or omit this fact to lie?
              Moreover, as soon as the industrialization of the village happened, an insane amount of hands was released!

              Ignoramus-read the reports on DKK shortage of workers in the farm since the end of the 30s and on
              Quote: Simargl
              What a horror! Stalin shot? Or did people stupidly leave the risky farming zone for a long ruble and a better share?

              RUN from convict low-paid labor, WILD social conditions, lawlessness and poverty.

              And the depopulated Non-Black Earth Region, the HEART of Russia, is TRAGEDY, if it does not.
              Quote: Simargl
              People threw "bad" land, unable to withstand the competition with black soil and fertilizers.

              FOR A THOUSAND years the Russian people Fought for this "bad", native Russian land with everyone, and only YOURS with their unbearable conditions forced them to flee from it ...
              1. 0
                31 March 2020 07: 59
                Quote: Olgovich
                Get the ignoramus
                Take this unconfirmed information for yourself. The data are not confirmed by anyone other than anti-Soviet propaganda, but there you can find a million a day.

                Quote: Olgovich
                Indeed, the world did NOT know SUCH in its history, and even in peacetime.
                In pre-revolutionary Russia, this is a cyclic process: hungry years with not weak hungry pestilence. The people fled with black earth because of this. To Siberia. From the black earth to Siberia. You do not know? Find out. And do not lie!

                Quote: Olgovich
                It is sort of “TRIBUTE”
                The word "like" - devalues ​​your efforts. It means that the word "tribute" is used as an analogy.

                Quote: Olgovich
                RUN from convict low-paid labor, WILD social conditions, lawlessness and poverty.
                So rural labor has always been harder than urban! In the city and fled. And now they are running.

                Quote: Olgovich
                ONCE AGAIN, for the dull: Even EAT, as in 1913 they could only forty years later (Report of the Central Statistical Board of the CCS 55 g).
                So, what do we have?
                istmat.info/node/18419
                An analysis of the text of the report shows that you Lying!!! Yes, they began to eat less bread, but they began to eat better and more varied.

                Quote: Olgovich
                FOR A THOUSAND years the Russian people Fought for this "bad", native Russian land with everyone, and only YOURS with their unbearable conditions forced them to flee from it ...
                You are not even trying to analyze what is written. I wrote that I was fleeing from economic inexpediency to economic ... expediency and prosperity. And "for a thousand years" ... they did the same thing, just in the same place it was better than where they fled from. History must not only be taught, but also taken into account.
                1. -1
                  31 March 2020 09: 53
                  Quote: Simargl
                  Take this unconfirmed information for yourself. The data are not confirmed by anyone other than anti-Soviet propaganda, but there you can find a million a day.

                  Quotations are given, ignoramus.
                  Multi-million the victims were confirmed by ALL - a spread of 3 to 10 million (including the Soviet Urlanis), the official figure in RUSSIA -7 million people died of starvation in the USSR in 32-33 g: believe it, don’t believe, sneeze on it.
                  Quote: Simargl
                  In pre-revolutionary Russia, this is a cyclic process: hungry years with not weak hungry pestilence.

                  b WHEN will it come ?! There were NO deaths from hunger in Russia after 1891, even conscientious "scientists" did not write such a thing, got it, didn't?
                  Quote: Simargl
                  The word "like" - devalues ​​your efforts. It means that the word "tribute" is used as analogies.

                  lol laughing Ignoramus, analogy (from Greek analogia matching) is the similarity between objects, phenomena, etc..
                  Those. SAME.
                  Got it, no?
                  Quote: Simargl
                  So rural labor has always been harder than urban! In the city and fled. And now they are running.

                  In Russia it was the VILLAGE that was young and inhabited.
                  Quote: Simargl
                  So, what do we have?
                  istmat.info/node/18419
                  The analysis of the text of the report shows that you are Lying !!! Yes, they began to eat less bread, but they began to eat better and more varied.

                  Analysis RECOGNIZES that by age 50 only caught up RUSSIA 1913 on meat, milk, etc.

                  During this time, normal countries have gone MUCH forward
                  Quote: Simargl
                  You are not even trying to analyze what is written. I wrote that I fled from economic inexpediency to economic ... expediency and prosperity.

                  Quite right: from that wild poverty and disorder arranged by YOURS in the village, people who had lived quietly on the earth for hundreds of years fled from it, as if from fire, there was nothing to work for!
                  And they got to .... shopping for food abroad, a disgrace ......
                  1. 0
                    31 March 2020 17: 04
                    "only by the 50s did they catch up with Russia in 1913", and the period of the Second World War did not affect the countryside? How many collective farmers died, and how many collective farm cattle and equipment were lost?
                    1. -2
                      April 1 2020 06: 37
                      Quote: Astra wild
                      "only by the 50s did they catch up with Russia in 1913", and the period of the Second World War did not affect the countryside? How many collective farmers died, and how many collective farm cattle and equipment were lost?

                      Just study the PRIMARY SOURCES: after all the "battles for bread" and the "stunning" victories of collective farms, in 1937 (the year of the declared "socialism" built), people ate, dressed and lived (m2) much worse than 1913 (Report of the Central Statistical Office 1955) and they swelled in thousands and died of hunger (see NKVD reports on Istmath).

                      These are just FACTS.

                      Too-WWII is to blame?
      4. 0
        30 March 2020 08: 26
        LIES: it is enough to remember the terrible 33 year: they excitedly shouted that the peasants had become ... wealthy people, and at this time, on a peaceful day, more of these "wealthy" died of hunger than died in the day ... ! And NONE of them remembered these fellow citizens, did not remember them - as they never were


        If God punished for a lie, then you should have been struck by lightning for this verbal diarrhea. Go learn the materiel, Hitler’s extortion. Did not finish you in the 45th unfortunately.
        1. -6
          30 March 2020 13: 32
          Quote: EvilLion
          If God punished for a lie, then you should have been struck by lightning for this verbal diarrhea.

          WHAT is a lie, a liar? fool
          Quote: EvilLion
          Go learn the materiel, Hitler’s extortion. Not finished off you in the 45th unfortunately.

          Judging by this "odorous" mixture, you are feeding in lol laughing
      5. -1
        30 March 2020 14: 37
        Quote: Olgovich
        they LIED continuously: it is enough to remember the terrible 33 year: they excitedly shouted that the peasants had become ... wealthy people, and at this time, on a peaceful day, more of these "wealthy" were dying of hunger than per day .. .OBOV!

        Well, judging by the stories of the peasants themselves, if this is a lie, then it is not at all continuous: "Hunger? On the contrary - 1933 was a well-fed year! We got so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!"
        Quote: Olgovich
        The same applies to Russian Culture: no one has ever brought her more damage, destruction, oblivion or destruction than they

        "Vernadsky the son wrote (by the way, in the same year 1927, when his father made the speech quoted above) in his" Outline of Russian history ", published in Prague, which by the last third of the 732th century" was and that is about the same thing about the point and about the point of the rus with the chimonastry (discharge of G.V. Vernadsky. - V.K.). .. Of the 161 male monasteries (not counting the southwestern region) 222 were left; out of 39 women, only 954 ... [So, out of 754 monasteries, 200 were liquidated, and only XNUMX remained ... This was a crushing blow to the entire historical system of religious and moral education of the Russian people ... The role of the surrogate of the Church in the nobility (partly in merchant) society of the time of Catherine began to play Masonic lodges ... "(V.V. Kozhinov).
        Taking into account the fact that the Bolsheviks, along with the demolition of monuments and churches, strenuously INCREASED the culture (the created masterpieces received world recognition!) Of the peoples of Russia, the statement: "no one has ever brought ... more damage ... than they" at least needs verification .... what
        1. -2
          30 March 2020 16: 33
          There the famine is very peculiar, the whole village could be with bread except for a couple of huts for those who did not want to go to collective farms, but cut ears of wheat on collective farm fields at night.
          1. +1
            30 March 2020 17: 25
            Quote: EvilLion
            Yes, spikelets on collective farm fields at night cut
            Yeah. One such overt confessed: what are the spikelets? The carts dragged!
        2. -1
          30 March 2020 19: 49
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Well, judging by the stories of the peasants themselves, if this is a lie, then it is not at all continuous: "Hunger? On the contrary - 1933 was a well-fed year! We got so much bread for workdays - they were transported home by vans!"

          Is there anything human left? belay
          These were PEOPLE, OUR compatriots !!
          7 March 1933 city
          TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62, 63, 64.

          Page 2
          YEY DISTRICT. Village Dolzhanskaya - 22 / II Commission found that tr. G **** used in food corpse owl dead sister.

          In the same village, it was established that group D *** remained after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

          St. Novo-Scherbinovskaya. In the 3rd collective farm brigade, wife E *** hacked and ate her 3-year-old child, the family E *** consists of 8 people who eat various surrogates (surepa, silo, etc.) and meat of cats and dogs.

          In the 3rd brigade, wife C *** drags corpses of children from a cemetery and eats. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
          A girl’s corpse was found in the apartment with her legs cut off and boiled meat was found.

          such documents, thousands ....
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Given the fact that the Bolsheviks, along with the demolition of monuments and temples, intensified their culture

          Here it is:
          tens of thousands of monuments of Russian Culture, Russian Glory, Russian Spirituality were blown up, burned, looted, plundered: more than HALF of historical buildings and monuments of the Kremlin, the tombs of POZHARSKY and MININ, BAGRATION and NAKHIMOV, KORNILOV and LAZROVOV, 1812, the main monuments of Lazarev, XNUMX, and Lazarev, were destroyed; and writers, cemeteries of OV, TWOV, the Column of Glory, world monuments of Russian Architecture in Moscow, Vladimir, Suzdal, Petrozavodsk, etc., etc., burned, cut, washed away millions of icons, paintings, frescoes, books, the names of Russian heroes, cripples numbered on the marble planks of Moscow, Kronstadt, Vladimir and others-BROKEN and turned into rubble and chopping blocks for cutting meat, in the Monument of Heroes of Plevna-made ... a toilet on the slabs with their names, like vandals of Ancient Rome, made of stone, for example, the most valuable a monument to the Russian barroco-temple of Dmitry Salunsky Suzdal was built ... a hunchback, the ancient Kostroma Kremlin was blown up, the Monument-Temple of Pzharsky from deliverance from the Tatar invasion and pr and pr
          ?
          You just tell me, WHAT else even the external enemy did SUCH?
          1. 0
            31 March 2020 14: 21
            Quote: Olgovich
            These were PEOPLE, OUR compatriots

            Just like these.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Here it is:

            And also the introduction of free education, the creation of writing for small nations, the creation - during the civil war! - scientific institutions, mass publishing (including many translations of foreign literature), the creation of MASTERPIECES of cinema, painting, literature, sculptures, etc. Moreover, with the aim of creating not narrow, "like a gumboil", specialists, but versatile culturally developed people.
            As a result, according to the observation of our enemies:
            - (Soldier of the Red Army) “This is not the“ brave man ”that we knew during the World War. Its cultural level became much higher, the general outlook broadened and technical literacy increased. This was facilitated by the raising of public education, the influx of the rural population into the city and the development of industry ,,. ”
            - “Many believe that Bolshevism brought the Russians out of limitation”
            1. -1
              31 March 2020 15: 50
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              Just like these.

              what are these?
              I'm about the DEAD, for a few months , from hunger MILLIONS of compatriots, about whom yours were choking at the same time:
              Expanding collective farm construction, WE have achieved the fact that all this mass of poor people was involved in collective farms, given they have a secure existence there

              Etoh great achievement, comrades. It is a an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet reached.

              This KEM had to be in order to a speak in such days? belay No.
              Something human, there must be .... No.
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              And the introduction of free education,

              it was before them.
              Education is THREATENED by them: in their ten years, NONE of a new school, before the Thieves, 4-5 thousand new schools each year, because of this, millions received education later
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              creation - during the civil war! - scientific institutions

              Oh, stupid foreign tourists .... brought, after all, scientists from the doormans? lol Or at least ..... lol
              Ahh, they invented TITLES for the departments of RUSSIAN AN! fool lol
              By the beginning of the 20s, Russian science was almost destroyed by them - read OLDENBURG, President of the USSR Academy of Sciences
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              mass book publishing

              Before them, 120 million were published in Russia, and not propaganda shit, but present literature: when caught up with it, eh?
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              the creation of MASTERPIECES of cinema, painting, literature, sculptures, etc.

              List the "MASTERPIECES": these are, apparently, wild in tasteless, ridiculous "Empire lol "Stalin's" instead of blown up MASTERPIECES of the Russian Baroque, Sukharev Tower and so forth Ypres?
              "Girl with an Oar" instead of a monument to Skobelev?
              apparently anti-advisers Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, nobleman Simonov, Astafiev, Akhmatova, Pamternak, etc., etc.?
              Russian ballet?
              WHAT for the soul? ALL-rooted, soul, foundation-from RUSSIA, from its ETERNAL, Daugasseurs of CULTURE.

              Vash- these are "girls with oars" and "Love of labor bees" with -The poor demons ....

              In the field is a tyr-tyr-tyr tractor,
              We are for happiness, we are for peace.
              lol
              1. 0
                April 1 2020 06: 14
                Quote: Olgovich
                what are "these"

                The same people of ours, who remembered 1933 as "well-fed", such as "the old Kulbashnye will get a little less money, but many times more bread - up to 34 centners of wheat. And besides, vegetables, potatoes, honey, etc." Kulbashny could not even dream of such incomes during the period of his farm laborers, and in the first years of the commune's existence, "those who survived the famine in 1933 and explained the reasons for it by the fact that" the collective farms did not have time to enter into force, " this famine was, according to them, one of many similar to it in the pre-collective farm time, finally those who died of hunger under the tsars, and about whom modern ignoramuses and liars say: "After 1891, no one died of hunger." Indeed, did these liars have anything human left (and indeed!)

                Quote: Olgovich
                And the introduction of free education,
                it was before them.

                Just what is called, men did not know.
                Quote: Olgovich
                in their ten years, NONE of one new school

                Lies are thousands of NEW schools.
                Quote: Olgovich
                they invented TITLES for the branches of the Russian Academy of Sciences!

                And to them - they created the departments themselves, which did not previously exist.
                Quote: Olgovich
                By the early 20s, Russian science was almost DESTROYED.

                Two zeros were not printed - by the beginning of the 2000s. Correct.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Before them-120 million was published

                And with them - many times more. At first. Then - in tens and hundreds.
                Quote: Olgovich
                not shit of propaganda, but real literature

                Yes it is. "Yerma" was never published in the USSR. No "propaganda" or any other. It was not the time and the wrong manners.
                Quote: Olgovich
                when caught up with it, eh?

                They themselves understood what they said, eh? How can someone catch up with ALWAYS AHEAD? Got it, no?
                Quote: Olgovich
                List the "MASTERPIECES":

                Please: these are buildings of the "Stalinist Empire" style, magnificent in aesthetics, these are the modernized "Venus de Milos" of the 20th century - "Girls with an Oar", this is "Worker and Collective Farm Woman" - according to the trendsetters "the greatest work of sculpture of the XNUMXth century", these are others sculptures, films, paintings that have received hundreds of different prizes in the "capital of fashion", etc., etc.
                Quote: Olgovich
                anti-advisers Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, nobleman Simonov, Astafiev, Akhmatova, Pamternak

                Quote: Olgovich
                ALL-rooted, soul, foundation-from RUSSIA

                Again, did the men know? This is me about the "anti-Soviet"? laughing
                And as for the roots and foundations - right - they were the heirs of the revolutionaries Andreev and Balmont, Bunin and Gorky, Korolenko and Kuprin, Teleshov and Leo Tolstoy, Chekhov and Shmelev.
                And, as everyone (except for the most dense ignoramuses) knows, the Great Socialist Revolution grew out of its basis - from RUSSIA. And it was not, as some liars ridiculously assert, brought out of nowhere by some "foreign tourists" who did not exist in nature ...
                1. -2
                  April 1 2020 07: 43
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  The same people of ours, who remembered 1933 as "well-fed", such as "the old Kulbashnye will receive a little less money, but many times more bread - up to 34 centners of wheat. And besides, vegetables, potatoes, honey, etc." Kulbashnyi could not even dream of such incomes during his agrarian period and in the first years of the commune's existence, "

                  Yes, yes, that's why .... All these kulbashi escaped from these "happy" collective farms, from a "happy" life, apparently!
                  And who didn’t run away, drank too much or died without leaving ANYTHING to the children after their hard labor.
                  It "nothing"- and there was everything that they earned in the country of" Soviets. "Look, WHAT the peasants left to children in Europe.
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  in the first years of the commune's existence he could not even dream, "those who survived the famine in 1933 and explained the reasons for it by the fact that"did not have time to enter by virtue of the collective farm ",

                  Ignorant, by the age of 33 they entered and how: the livestock of livestock became smaller .... TWO-THREE TIMES, and the fields, in some places, the ARMY had to process, people fled from "happiness"!
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  approved by him in pre-collective farm times, finally those who died of hunger under the tsars, and about whom modern ignoramuses and liars say: "After 1891, no one died of hunger."

                  Give, LIAR, the data of even Soviet false scientists, propagandists about the deaths of the hungry after 1891.
                  33 g peaceful famine - the worst in the history of mankind - in no africa this happened ...
                  And the gold was ALWAYS at your side, and they died from it in 1922, 24, 25, 27, 32,33, 37, 47.gg.

                  Yes, human request
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  Just what is called, men did not know.

                  Didn't you study at school? Oh yes, that truth school wasn’t taught ...
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  And to them - created the offices themselvespreviously unexisting.

                  Did the Marxist instinct suggest? lol So among them were, nevertheless, scientists? Reveal the SECRET of surnames, otherwise they are bashfully silent fool lol
                  PS When you start to frantically pick "scientists" Bolsheviks lol lol read about COMMISSION FOR THE STUDY OF NATURAL PRODUCTION FORCES OF RUSSIA (KEPS)- maybe something will come
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  And with them - many times more. At first. Then - in tens and hundreds.

                  First, FIG. Those. Russia has already appeared in the red.
                  Do not forget about the FORBIDDEN and destroyed books-animal fear was yours ....
                  And then, even under RUSSIA, it would be THOUSAND times more. How did this happen in real life WORLDWIDE,
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich

                  Yes it is. "MA" was never published in the USSR. Neither "" nor any other. It was not the time and the wrong manners.

                  belay lol Much more than half-propaganda bullshit:
                  spring has passed - summer has come
                  -Thank you PARTIES-for this!
                  fool lol
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  They themselves understood what they said, eh? How can someone catch up going ALWAYS FORWARD?
                  belay fool lol
                  You haven’t finished the IML, ignoramus?
                  1922 - the total book production for this year amounted to 307,3 million impression sheets, which equal to 45 percent average annual leafage of 1913

                  Got it, no?
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  magnificent buildings of the "Stalinist Empire" style,

                  stupid kitsch and cynical feast during a plague in a ruined country
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  upgraded "Venus de Milo" 20th century - "Girls with an oar"

                  spruce-fires .... SUCH yet not met belay lol
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  other sculptures, films, paintings.

                  BEFORE THE THIEVES, there was no Russian Culture, yeah, and, of course, it would not "exist" without a THIEF in the 1960s, for example fool
                  it would have been MUCH MORE if yours had not been physically destroyed by the prohibitions of Russian writers and poets.
                  Got it, no?
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  And as for the roots and stems - right - they were heirs revolutionaries Andreev and Balmont, Bunin and Gorky, Korolenko and Kuprin, Teleshov and L.N. Tolstoy, Chekhov and Shmelev.

                  .... STA ?! belay revolutionaries ... CHEKHOV, TOLSTOY, BUNIN ?!
                  You are definitely from IML lol : I.A. Bunin about Ulyanov-Lenin:
                  “Dock, moral iiot from birth.
                  He ravaged the world's greatest country and killed several million people ...

                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  And, as everyone (except for the most dense ignoramuses) knows, the Great Socialist Revolution grew out of its basis - from RUSSIA. And it was not, as some liars ridiculously assert, brought out of nowhere by some "foreign tourists" who did not exist in nature ...

                  From World War I and Intourism, it was brought by aliens who lived half the conscious life in foreign tourism, who did not know their native country, who hated it and its people.
                  1. 0
                    April 1 2020 16: 38
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    All these kulbashs have escaped from these "happy" collective farms, from a "happy" life, apparently!

                    Did you know Kulbashi? And did you live at that time?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    And who didn’t run away, drank too much or died without leaving ANYTHING to the children after their hard labor.

                    In addition to many of those who calmly survived to old age retirement and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of goodness, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book.
                    And in the city, so that you, an ignoramus, know, do not run away, but move. Collective farms were created for this in general - for the sake of eradicating centuries of poverty in the countryside (from which they fled to the ends of the world in tsarist times) and the resettlement of peasants in the city. It happened, even in administrative order.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Ignoramus, by the year 33 they entered, and also as

                    How do you like to say: Did you live at that time? Tell your contemporaries about "entered and how." fool
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Give, LIAR, the data of even Soviet false scientists, propagandists about the deaths of the hungry after 1891.

                    I to you - to you personally, liar! - cited information from a pre-Soviet source. In response to the exact same hysterical request. Do you have memory problems?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Didn't you study at school? Oh yes, that truth school wasn’t taught

                    In that, yes, the truth was not taught. Because the church was not separated from the TOY school.
                    "- Father, why does the teacher in the senior class say that the earth is a million
                    years worth, and not as in God's law - five thousand ... - and immediately a donkey from
                    screaming cry of father Basil:
                    “What did you say, bastard?” Here you are, as you learn the word of God!
                    Before Pavka even uttered a hoot, the priest grabbed him by both ears and began
                    hammer your head against the wall. After a minute, beaten and scared, his
                    thrown into the corridor. "
                    And then: "In September 1920, at the age of thirteen, I could personally feel the benefits of a new life on myself. Before the revolution, a peasant son would hardly dare even dream of a secondary school education, unless only his parents could scrape together every month 10 rubles in gold each - and that was the fee only for studying at the gymnasium, plus money for uniforms and textbooks. Now, when education at the second level school became free, and the uniform was canceled, the costs were reduced to a minimum. " (S.P. Ivanov).
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Did the Marxist instinct suggest?

                    I, unlike you, prefer knowledge of facts to instinct. To anyone.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Do not forget about the FORBIDDEN and destroyed books-animal fear was yours ..

                    Well, compared with your fear (up to asking for confession) - it's just a standard of fearlessness ... Yes
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Far more than half-propaganda bullshit

                    2/3? 3/4? 9/10? And the evidence, liar?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You are not an IML, ignoramus

                    I mean: am I not your classmate? No. Do not even try to attach to me. stop
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    1922 - the total production of books for this year amounted to 307,3 million impression sheets, which amounted to 45 percent of the average annual sheet of 1913

                    In the difficult year of 1922, Soviet publishing houses published more books than in 1913 in the number of titles by 1,4 times, and in circulation - by 2,8 times.
                    Got it, no?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    I have not met SUCH

                    You still have a lot to learn ... Yes
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    it would be much BIGGER

                    Perhaps, but not a fact. The revolution, and especially the idea for which it was accomplished, gave a tremendous impetus to the development of culture in all directions.
                    By the way. Her, the October Revolution, began to chant almost from the first days. Writers, painters, sculptors, playwrights, filmmakers. With your own system, established almost 30 years ago, nothing of the kind is observed. How can you explain this?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    STA ?! revolutionaries ... CHEKHOV, TOLSTOY, BUNIN ?!

                    If Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, Simonov are anti-Soviet, then these (and many others) are yes, revolutionaries. To put it mildly.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    I.A. Bunin about Ulyanov-Lenin

                    But Bunin generally loved a lot of nasty things to talk about, including about the Russian people as a whole. He had such a karakhter.
                    But this does not mean anything - the Socialist-Revolutionaries raised their weapons against Lenin, so that they are not revolutionaries?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    From World War I and Intourism brought

                    Yeah, in the bag. fool Einstein was right!
                    1. -5
                      April 1 2020 19: 14
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Did you know Kulbashi? And did you live at that time?

                      Certainly: FILLING empty residential buildings only in the Non-Chernozem region, MILLIONS of abandoned fields and pastures, 60 dead Russian villages there, the wildest shortage of laborby 1985


                      This is all about:
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      In addition to many of those who calmly survived to old age retirement and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of goodness, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book.

                      Got it, no?
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Collective farms were created for this in general - for the eradication of age-old poverty in the village

                      Oh, she-she !!! belay lol
                      To collect tributes they are organized: it is more convenient and easier, to collect marketable grain, to TAKE a collective farm than every peasant-read Stalin.
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      How do you like to say: Did you live at that time? Tell your contemporaries about "entered and how."

                      These are unclassified figures, ignoramus: the wildest drop in the number of cattle, see. Istmat
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      I to you - to you personally, liar! - cited information from a pre-Soviet source. In response to the exact same hysterical request. Do you have memory problems?

                      There are NO such sources — neither conscientious nor pre-conscientious — about mass mortality and mass cannibalism BEFORE you, but THOUSAND about them! Imagine this, liar, about the DoR:
                      YEY DISTRICT. The village Dolzhanskaya - the 22 / II food assistance commission, having examined, established that tr. G **** had eaten the corpse of the dead sister's owl. During interrogation, G **** stated that for a month she ate various garbage, not even having vegetables, and that eating the human corpse was caused by hunger.

                      In the same village it was established that group D ***, remaining after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

                      Station Novo-Shcherbinovskaya. In the 3rd brigade of the collective farm, the wife of the kulak E *** hacked to death and "ate her 3-year-old child, the E *** family consists of 8 people who eat various substitutes (rape, silage, etc.) and cat meat and dogs.

                      The cemetery found up to 30 corpses thrown out during the night, part of the corpses bitten by dogs. The corpse of the collective farmer REZNIK was cut in half, without legs, and several coffins were found there, from which the corpses disappeared.


                      In the 3rd brigade, the wife of the convict C *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
                      A girl’s corpse was found in the apartment with her legs cut off and boiled meat was found.

                      No?
                      Freedom, yeah!
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      then: "In September 1920

                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      but that was only the tuition fee for the gymnasium, plus money for uniforms and textbooks. Now, when education at the second level school has become free, and the uniform has been canceled, the costs have been reduced to a minimum. "(S.P. Ivanov

                      Tears, yes ...... lol
                      HOW have poor Germans, Angles, Franks, etc. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS - without YOU they have become literate, huh? lol
                      And RUSSIA without YOU has become more literate-FASTER: you have not built schools for TEN years, and Russia-4-5 thousand a year!
                      Got it, no?
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      I, unlike you, prefer knowledge of facts to instinct. To anyone.

                      So WHERE is the name of YOUR Bolshevik scientists, of whom you ... organized "institutes", eh?
                      Shaw, dumb? lol Only the landings? Well, such from the casket! Yes
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Well, compared to your fear (up to asking for confession) - it's just a standard of fearlessness.

                      "Daredevils" -with ..... they dealt with books, yes! fool
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      2/3? 3/4? 9/10? And the evidence, liar?

                      List of editions - find and read. Or with ... an account, also an ambush? lol
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      In the difficult year of 1922, Soviet publishing houses published more books than in 1913 in the number of titles by 1,4 times, and in circulation - by 2,8 times.

                      And it amounted to ..... 45 percent of the average annual report of 1913
                      AGAIN ... didn’t it?
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Perhaps, but not a fact. The revolution, and especially the idea for which it was accomplished, gave a tremendous impetus to the development of culture in all directions

                      Fact: for the dead and forbidden did NOT write ANYTHING, and THOSE on which they were ALLOWED to write bastards were extremely few. Therefore, fact
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Evolution, and especially the idea for which it was accomplished, gave a tremendous impetus to the development of culture in all directions.

                      The culture received a colossal IMPACT, poor demians and "trakor tyr-tyr" began to walk
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      and. Her, the October Revolution, began to chant almost from the first days. Writers, painters, sculptors, playwrights, filmmakers

                      LICK steel, for a small fraction.
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      . With your own system, established almost 30 years ago, nothing of the kind is observed. How can you explain this?

                      Oh thief ?! So he teased, that's the whole story!
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      If Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, Simonov are anti-Soviet, then these (and many others) are yes, revolutionaries. To put it mildly.

                      lol
                      ide? facts?
                      Quote: Sahar Medovich
                      Yeah, from a WORLD WAR and INTURISM brought in a suitcase

                      In the trailer, with the permission and approval of Occupants
                      1. -1
                        April 2 2020 10: 59
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        certainly

                        Of course, yes: they calmly survived to an old-age pension and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of household goods, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book. Got it, no?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        read Stalin.

                        We read, how! "... we managed to turn the bulk of the peasantry in a number of regions away from the old, capitalist path of development, from which only a handful of wealthy capitalists benefit, while the vast majority of peasants are forced to ruin and live in poverty, to a new, socialist path of development, which displaces the rich capitalists, and re-equips the middle peasants and the poor in a new way, equips them with new tools, equips tractors and agricultural machines in order to get them out of poverty and kulak bondage ... "
                        And not only Stalin: "" Thanks to collectivization, many millions of Russian people abandoned the dull, hard, dirty, hungry and hopeless village life and rushed to the cities, that is, to culture, education, entertainment, hygiene, satiety, easier and more interesting work ". (Zinoviev). These are just facts. hi
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        These are unclassified numbers.

                        The figure is unclassified, but only incomplete. In the sense: they are not the whole truth, the ignoramus.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        HOW have poor Germans, Angles, Franks, etc. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS - without YOU they have become literate, huh?

                        How without us? And they had their own. Koi also staged revolutions for the sake of freedom of equality and fraternity. Both below and above. And it was clearly not without us: the Soviet country was a beacon for the whole world. It is a fact.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        you did not build schools TEN years

                        You're lying. Pointless and unnatural.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        List of editions - find and read.

                        Therefore, the evidence is zero, a liar. I don’t need to consider it - I read. And I know what was more.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHERE is the name of YOUR Bolshevik scientists

                        Alaverdi: learn materiel. Surnames are known.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And that amounted to ..... 45 percent

                        Well, yes, 45 equals 280? Mathematician You are famous.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        there were very few

                        Compared to the royal speck of dust - Mont Blanc on Everest.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I go become poor demons

                        Therefore, a push, a lift, not a blow.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        LICK steel, for a small fraction

                        Representatives of TOY culture? Figures of the Silver Age? Do not judge others by yourself.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        facts?

                        In the same place as about Sholokhov with Simonov.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In the trailer, with the permission and approval of Occupants

                        And to the delight of the world's best people. good
                      2. -3
                        April 2 2020 11: 49
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Of course, yes: they calmly survived to an old-age pension and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of household goods, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book.

                        Jammed?
                        You are given the FACTS of abandoned hundreds of thousands of "estates" with land that is not needed by ANYONE, and with "good" - in the form of an ax of tsarist times ...
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        We read, how! "... we managed to turn the bulk of the peasantry in a whole series of regions away from the old, capitalist path of development, from which only a handful of rich capitalists benefit, and the vast majority of peasants are forced to ruin and live in poverty, to a new, socialist path of development, which displaces the rich capitalists, and re-equips the middle peasants and poor peasants in a new way, equips them with new tools, equips tractors and agricultural machines in order to get them out of poverty and kulak bondage ...

                        For pumping out DANI (Stalin) from "wealthy" people (Stalin), through collective farms (Stalin), it came up, didn't it?
                        for some reason. MILLIONS at 22,33,47 and pr-extinct, apparently, from the rolling "happiness"
                        By expanding the collective farm construction, WE have ensured that all this mass of poor people was involved in collective farms, gave them a secure existence there

                        This is a great achievement, comrades. This is such an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet achieved. Having deployed collective-farm construction, WE have ensured that all these masses of poor people were drawn into collective farms and given them a secure existence there.

                        This is a great achievement, comrades. This is an achievement that the world has not yet known. and which no state in the world has yet reached.
                        -that was said on February 19, 33, on this day, as some other died, about 20000 crippled swans-from hunger
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        The figure is unclassified, but only incomplete. In the sense: they are not the whole truth, the ignoramus.

                        Of course, LIVING is either Soviet, but even they ACCEPT the WILD, TWO-THREE-fold reduction in numbers. cattle in two to three years
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        How without us?

                        A, Krupskaya and there put her fish leg? lol -FACTS, liar, on the table1
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And it was clearly not without us: the Soviet country was lighthouse for the whole world.

                        belay fool lol
                        this is YOURS - all the time they boasted that they were about to CAPE on the damned capitalists, but, alas, they had torn ....
                        Yes, give examples of how "suffering" American workers DREAMED to devour several times LESS, ie as in the lighthouse "in the 1930s-1960s, and even later ... lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Laverdes: learn materiel. Surnames are known.

                        Of course, they are known: they are NOT!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        s schools did not build TEN years

                        You're lying. Pointless and unnatural.

                        To school, ignoramus! -In the DIRECTORY
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Well, yes, 45 equals 280? Mathematician You are famous.

                        45% = 45%, if you don’t get it, that’s how much from 100% 13 years yours could print. Shame ....
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Compared to the royal speck of dust - Mont Blanc on Everest.

                        With wild censorship and the absence of freedom of speech and press ?! fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Therefore, a push, a lift, not a blow.

                        Wild fall, vulgarization and primitivization
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Representatives of TOY culture? Figures of the Silver Age? Do not judge others by yourself.

                        Are those who have run away from her abroad? or interrupted by her?

                        Tell me more. that the remaining praises, under YOUR PISTOL -... "voluntarily wrote fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        In the same place as about Sholokhov with Simonov.

                        I.e.-NO
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And to the delight of the world's best people.

                        fool
                        their people said in the ELECTION and fought with your still long deyasteli-read Stalin
                      3. -1
                        April 2 2020 16: 32
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are FACTS

                        You too. But you have a principle: "So much the worse for the facts." lol
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        To pump out DANI (Stalin) from "wealthy" people (Stalin), through collective farms (Stalin)

                        To 1) increase agricultural productivity, 2) increase general welfare. And for nothing else. Got it, no?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        A, Krupskaya and there put her fish leg?

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Give examples of how "suffering" American workers DREAMED to devour several times LESS

                        For specifically Krupskaya I will not say, but in general:
                        "-" I spoke in Iraq, in Baghdad in the 1990s with an American journalist from the New York Times, such a hidden intelligence agent was ... do you know what he told me? "You, you know, Arkady says - paradoxical, but an example of how immodestly the Russian rich, the rich lived before the revolution and then what happened to them after 1917 brought to their senses many American rich people who began to live very modestly, dress very modestly, do not bulge wealth, do not annoy people with their well-being. the well-being that many people have here "(Arkady Mamontov, presenter)
                        “When the Americans looked at what happened in Russia, and when the first revolution took place in 1905-07, such a thing as Protestant ethics appeared, the Americans wrote it all down in the code, everything is very careful: the duties of a worker and the duties of an enterprise owner. They were really scared! After all, those social gains, the social market that the West was so proud of, is actually a copy of the reforms that were carried out by the Bolsheviks and the communists. (Yuri Knutov, director of the museum of troops in Balashikha). ("Traces of the Empire").
                        What the Americans dreamed about - I don’t know, but from what they learned we can assume that they thought:
                        "Any patient in Magnitogorsk received the best medical care and care that society could provide ... Residents of Magnitogorsk perceived the medical care provided by the society as something natural, for granted, as one of the normal functions of their state. In America, many doctors have no patients, while many sick men and women do not receive medical attention.

                        The standard of living in France and especially in the United States is incomparably higher than in the Soviet Union, and this was evident at every step during that trip in 1937.
                        Another difference was striking. In Russia over the five years I spent there, material conditions have improved by at least one hundred percent. In France, they remained the same, perhaps even worsened. In America, they probably improved slightly, although I doubt that they have changed much. Maybe the Russian worker had only a little, but he felt that he would get more next year. His children went to school and were sure that later they would be given a job. The Russian worker was provided in case he fell ill, just like his children. Unemployment has already been forgotten. Thus, in essence, he was cheerful and optimistic, although he was worried about pressing problems that most workers in other countries did not have.
                        I found that my old friends in America were worried about unemployment, higher taxes, higher fees for medical and dental services, they were worried about how to give their children the opportunity to graduate from college, and they were probably most worried about the general development trend of American society and the reliability of the sociological and economic principles on which it was based.
                        Talking to people in France and America, I was struck by their interest in the Soviet Union, as well as widespread misconceptions about Russia and about all Russian in general. All had their own stubbornly defended opinion on this score. Communists and their sympathizers considered Russia a panacea for all evils. "(Scott)
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        To school

                        Your teacher? So I already ... hi
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        45% = 45%

                        In math, yes. And for some reason you don’t. To school! Right now!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        With wild censorship and the absence of freedom of speech and press ?!

                        With reasonable censorship, filtering pearls from debris, or even poison, and with REAL freedom of speech and press.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Tell me more. that the remaining praises, under YOUR PISTOL -... "voluntarily wrote

                        Not enough to say - voluntarily. They still tried to be more revolutionaries than the CPSU (b). Under a gun, this is impossible in principle. request
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I.e.-NO

                        That Sholokhov, Simonov and others are anti-Soviet - of course not.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the people said in the ELECTION

                        Therefore, the result is the same.
                      4. -5
                        April 3 2020 10: 36
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        To you also.

                        Liar, NOT ONE!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        For 1)increase productivity agriculture, 2) increase overall welfare. And for nothing else. Got it, no?

                        1. The yield of 1913 you, the "effective", reached only through .... 43 years (except 37 g).
                        EFFECTIVELY EFFECTIVELY DECLINED funds from klkhz-it yes.
                        2. Are you in the tank?
                        FIFTH TIME ON SECURED PEOPLE: By expanding the collective farm construction, WE have ensured that all this mass of poor people was involved in collective farms, given to them there secured existence

                        This is a great achievement, comrades. This is such an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet achieved.

                        -This is said on February 19, 33, on this day, as on others, about 20000 died secured people, from hunger, just MILLIONS

                        Yes, and tell me, how much 0,0001% at NORMAL ELECTIONS would these "rkvdtli" get if they SOUND what happened?
                        No, they were silent, CRIMINALLY silent, they were afraid - they were afraid to animal horror, "unbending" Eviks
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        brought to life many of the American rich

                        Why this Dumb prpgda: he said, this -Other said ... And?
                        Amer the rich did not always know where Russia IS — they were by their p!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        After all, those social conquests, the social market that the West was so proud of, are actually a copy of the reforms that were carried out by the Bolsheviks and Communists.

                        shameless lie.
                        Social market is sho for the beast? Inserted HONOR, and WHAT is it, you don’t know
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        widespread misconceptions about Russia and about everything Russian in general. All had their own stubbornly defended opinion on this score. Communists and their sympathizers considered Russia a panacea for all evils. "(Scott)

                        unfortunate illiterate turachok: in the USA they ate, Dressed and had M "- at times MORE than in the USSR, as well as the length of life, e. mortality, etc.

                        Bring statements by AMER workers about the dream to EAT as in a lighthouse !!!!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Your teacher? So i already..

                        already mania ....
                        I was ripening ...
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        With reasonable censorship

                        "mind" in .... Itiots? belay lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Not enough to say - voluntarily. They still tried to be more revolutionaries than the CPSU (b).

                        OTHER -with you-did not write, for it-you DESTROYED.

                        So WHERE are the Hogweed-SCIENTISTS 1918, huh? Convulsive searches have failed? lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        and the result is the same.

                        Certainly: therefore yours and not: FULL BANKRUPTS.
                      5. -1
                        April 3 2020 17: 21
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Liar, NOT ONE!

                        On your part - not a single one. With mine - nothing but.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        MUCH more effective

                        The quality of life of peasants has improved (according to them).
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        it is said on February 19, 33, on this day, as on others, about 20000 wealthy people died from hunger, only MILLIONS

                        You do not believe Stalin - your idol? Do you offer to believe others? Dishonestly, sir!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes, and tell me, how much 0,0001% at NORMAL ELECTIONS would these "rkvdtli" get if they SOUND what happened?

                        It is likely that much more than 50%. Because the reason for the famine of 1933 is clearly not the one that your people are trying to rub into us now. And then they knew her, so even Goebbels did not really try to operate her.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Amer rich did not always know where Russia is

                        What a conversation! And they didn't always understand what the "communist threat" meant. And "red under the bed" is about Indians. Toys. laughing fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        shameless lie

                        True true.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        unfortunate illiterate turachka

                        Which of you and Scott? He seemed to be well educated and quite happy lol
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        already mania

                        If! Sad, painful reality. request
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        OTHER - if you didn’t write

                        They wrote different things. And basically they destroyed it. "Intilikheniya"
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So WHERE

                        BORSCHEVIKI? Probably in your garden. And judging by what was written, in the salad?
                        fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        yours and not: FULL BANKRUPTS.

                        Only your fear of them is there. "Stalin is a really acting politician of our time. Help !!!!" Disgracers ...
                      6. -4
                        April 3 2020 19: 58
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        The quality of life of peasants has improved (according to them).

                        Dying by the millions of hunger - "improvement", yeah fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You do not believe Stalin - your idol? Do you offer to believe others? Dishonestly, sir!

                        I believe! You know the whole truth, you just need to change the sign
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is likely that much more than 50%. Because cause The famine of 1933 is clearly not the kind that yours are trying to rub into us now. And then they knew her, so even Goebbels did not really try to operate her.

                        1.Oh, open it! Yes
                        2. I.e. would you forgive?
                        Therefore, yours and were silent FOR FIVE YEARS, like a fish about ice, they were afraid of a crushing victory? lol
                        By the way, who and when were interested in the reasons?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Which of you and Scott? He seemed to be well educated and quite happy

                        No one endowed cattle with intelligence, you are the first lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        If! Sad, painful reality

                        I sympathize, although the fact that you admitted is good
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They wrote different things. \ "

                        Well, bring this "miscellaneous" anti-Bolshevik, for example
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And basically they destroyed it. "Intilikheniya"

                        Yes, your People's Commissars of the NKVD of the USSR Yagoda and Yezhov are exceptionally sophisticated ADVANCED aesthetes (even by today's standards Yes ) _one possessed chic rubber and female knitwear, the second one was cast with all blue shades. good
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        BORSCHEVIKI? Probably in your garden. And judging by what was written, in the salad?

                        Dumb them, yes, smart - among fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Only your fear of them is there. "Stalin is a really active politician of our time."

                        As lcd \ e you are similar with non-brothers: "Bandera priede-order navede" requestYes, and give examples when bankrupt are afraid.

                        And again I insist: Bring the statements of AMER workers about the dream to EAT as in a lighthouse !!!! lol
                      7. -1
                        April 4 2020 08: 06
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Dying by the millions of hunger - "improvement", yeah

                        Or they received bread in huge quantities, in a one-man farm unprecedented.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You know the whole truth, you just need to change the sign

                        Those. the truth is only what you yourself think is true? Cunningly! But ... stupid.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Oh, open it!

                        It has long been revealed. Not all, of course, because all, it seems, and then no one knew.
                        “When I asked my father (and his village, Nikolaevka, Novomoskovsk district is just in the area of ​​the notorious Holodomor) to tell about this famine, he at first willingly began to talk about the famine of 1927. And when I clarified that I was interested in the famine of 1932 , then at first he did not even understand what I was asking. And then he remembered - yes, and then there was hunger. And when asked about the reasons for the famine in the countryside, he answered harshly: “They did not want to work!
                        However, the reasons for which they did not want to work with his father had already been erased from memory. But when I asked how “the peasants didn’t want to work”, he recalled and told such a case of his native village of Nikolaevka, Novomoskovsk district of the Dnepropetrovsk region: “A drunk private farmer is sitting under a teahouse (there was something like a tavern in our village) . This year he did not plow and did not sow at all, but the carrion (grain that crumbled during the harvest of last year) sprang up so well, and the year was so successful in the weather that wheat on his land deformed to envy. They say to him - Ivan, go squint! And he: "Whoever sowed it, let him mow!" Father remembered this biting phrase.
                        ... But in our vast relatives there is no one who would die of hunger in the Holodomor, although the family of the eldest uncle died of hunger in 1947. Maybe because they did not suffer from the famine, because my grandfather had already joined the collective farm? I do not know..". (Yu.I. Mukhin).
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Those. would you forgive?

                        You can forgive or not forgive the guilty. And if not guilty ...
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        By the way, who and when were interested in the reasons?

                        Everyone who studies the topic. Me, for example.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        No one endowed cattle with intelligence

                        It’s noticeable for you.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You are the first

                        No, I just descended to your level. To understand me. We must teach you! wink
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Well, bring this "miscellaneous" anti-Bolshevik, for example

                        Well, I remember, Sholokhov, Simonov and others were called anti-advisers! They should have it! Is it logical? Or how? laughing fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes, your People's Commissars of the NKVD of the USSR Yagoda and Ezhov-

                        Just like yours.
                        "The philosopher and art critic Mikhail Aleksandrovich Lifshits talked about the internecine fights among the intelligentsia in the 30s and 40s. Political labels were the projectiles of this struggle, and denunciations, or, as they called it," timely signals "were its tools. Did I participate in this ? - asked Lifshits and answered: "Everyone took part, and so did I. Otherwise, it was impossible to write, print, or exist in literature. Well, for example, Nusinov appears in the press and accuses me of distorting Marxism, denying the role worldview in creativity or do not recognize the Stalinist doctrine of culture. In its timely signal is given a set of misconduct, pulling on article 58. If I keep silent, it is quite possible that I will be jailed. To avoid this, I publish an article in which I argue that Nusinov is not recognizes the dictatorship of the proletariat or denies the slogan: “Proletarians of all countries, unite!” I also give my opponent a chance to go to prison. I’m the same informer, like Nusinov, but the fact that they are imprisoning him, not me - eh it’s either a lottery, or the persuasiveness of arguments and the art of polemics. "
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Dumb them, yes, smart - among

                        I sympathize with your company.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        As a housing estate you are similar to non-brothers: "Bandera come-order navede" Yes, and give examples when they are afraid of bankrupts.

                        Not us, but you. Your words. Bankrupt may not be afraid, but because of their influence, the Communists, because of their influence, are still afraid of tantrums. So they are not bankrupt? According to your logic
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        statements of AMER workers about the dream to EAT as in a lighthouse !!!!

                        And ask those of them who stood in kilometer-long queues behind a plate of balandy - they will surely say a lot to you! Or who was starving when the bourgeois dispossessed of food!
                      8. -4
                        April 4 2020 10: 10
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Or they received bread in huge quantities, in a one-man farm unprecedented.

                        1. recipients have become several MILLION less.
                        2. Dumb lie-see. CSB
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Those. the truth is only what you yourself think is true? Cunningly! But ... stupid.

                        The truth is the facts. Which cynical public lie about the secured - thrown in the trash
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        Well, I remember, Sholokhov, Simonov and others were called anti-advisers! They should have it! Is it logical? Or how?

                        fool YOU said "about different things" To my offer to present -You are ZERO again,
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Just like yours.

                        These are YOUR commissars, YOUR creation, as well as the system that has put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness, is YOUR
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I sympathize with your company.

                        In my company, 1918, the mass of the great minds of mankind, in yours, alone fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Not us, but you. Your words

                        The word about YOU-didn't get it, again? This is who wrote: “Stalin is a really acting politician of our time.” A copy from non-brothers
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Bankrupt may not be afraid, but because of their influence, the Communists, because of their influence, are still afraid of tantrums. So they are not bankrupt? According to your logic

                        Bolsheviks-bankrupt full-prsrl ALL: country. army, people, even their own ..... party, whose 18 millionth detachment spat on them lol And this is with all their power!
                        And why are they afraid of them, the eternal marginalized losers, now that they are biting each other against the background of hundreds of old women ??
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And ask those of them who stood in kilometer-long queues behind a plate of balandy - they will surely say a lot to you! Or who was starving when the bourgeois dispossessed of food!

                        1. Amer workers' statement on the desire to eat, dress and have m2, as in the lighthouse, will it or not? Or is Amer the peasants a fall to the collective farm in 1933?
                        No? So don’t talk in vain - uninteresting
                        2. NOBODY in the USA did NOT die of hunger, even the communists of the USSR were so ashamed to write such a thing!
                      9. 0
                        April 4 2020 13: 58
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Dumb lie

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Truth is facts

                        Facts are not always true. But in this case, yes: I have facts (evidence of contemporaries), you have a dumb lie. You are not even able to give her signs of credibility. Shame ...
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        At my suggestion to introduce -You are again ZERO,

                        Ha! On my suggestions to present the facts you almost always have ZERO. And now too.
                        They wrote about different things: about good and bad in our country and our society, about good and evil, heroes and traitors-cowards, honest and dishonest, toilers and loafers, etc. etc.
                        Now you answer: why the same religion did not bring up other nations as well as Russians (if this is really only its merit)?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        These are YOUR commissars, YOUR creation, as well as the system that has put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness, is YOUR

                        You confuse the cause with the effect.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        This is who wrote: “Stalin is a really acting politician of our time.

                        This was written by "Komsomolskaya Pravda" during the failure of the last "de-Stalinization". And a similar thing is also written: https: //www.belrussia.ru/page-id-7056.html, https://echo.msk.ru/blog/konstantindobrynin/1655752-echo/. Got it, didn't it?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In my company, 1918, the mass of the great minds of mankind, in yours, alone

                        It's amazing how they let you in ...
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Amer workers' statement of longing

                        Statements Amer. workers live like in the USSR-were! I brought them to you! Do you have vision or memory problems? Or even with your head?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        NO ONE IN THE USA DIED FROM hunger

                        And the Americans write that they were dying. On the other hand, an American who LIVES in the USSR for 5 years near Kazakhstan and is familiar with many who came from Ukraine - about the famine of 1933 - not a word. So that.
                      10. -4
                        April 4 2020 15: 58
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Data - not always true.

                        belay lol Louder, stronger shout it - it will help you to count on help faster.
                        In the Annals of Philosophy bring you! lol
                        WHAT is it?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But in this case, yes: I have facts (evidence of contemporaries), you have a dumb lie. You are not even able to give her signs of credibility.

                        Only MILLION victims of the famine of 33 g deny the anti-people
                        By the way, the promised cause of death is IDEA?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        They wrote about different things: about good and bad in our country and our society, about good and evil, heroes and traitors-cowards, honest and dishonest, toilers and loafers, etc. etc.

                        Present articles and reports of YOUR idols and newspapers about the most terrible tragedy of our people in peacetime - starvation 33
                        "Trifle", right? WHERE are the reports from the field, investigations of writers, newspapermen, the public, photos, reports, criticism of pricks, etc.?
                        At their table, liar!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Now you answer: why the same religion did not bring up other nations as well as Russians (if this is really only its merit)?

                        We had a Russian Orthodox Church, others had a Polish Orthodox Church, etc., and they are all DIFFERENT, despite COMMUNITY.
                        SHO, wedge? It's your problems
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You confuse the cause with the effect.

                        Those. these naughty .... NOT YOUR generation? belay lol
                        The system that put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness is also .... NOT YOURS?
                        And whose?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        This was written by "Komsomolskaya Pravda" during the failure of the last "de-Stalinization"

                        Liar, no such thing in KP
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Statements Amer. workers live like in the USSR-were! I brought them to you! Do you have vision or memory problems? Or even with your head?

                        NO ONE!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And the Americans write that they were dying.

                        To the table, liar!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        an American who LIVES in the USSR for 5 years near Kazakhstan and is familiar with many who came from Ukraine - about the famine of 1933 - not a word. So that.

                        Millions of relatives of the victims, too, did not write a word, as did your thoroughly LYING so-called "press", "radio", "congresses and other false your organizations.
                        The conclusion was NOT fool
                      11. The comment was deleted.
                      12. 0
                        April 4 2020 17: 15
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Shout louder

                        He who has ears, let him hear
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        the promised cause of death is IDE?

                        Who promised? What reality are you now, venerable? They completely lied.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Submit articles and reports of YOUR idols and newspapers

                        I have no idols. Unlike you. "Newspapers" - who is it? fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The system that put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness is also .... NOT YOURS?

                        Exclusively yours. And a draw more. As well as revolution - the universal desire of the whole then society.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        no such thing in KP

                        There is. And not only this. Not so long ago in KP there was an interview in which it was said about the 1930s: "It seemed that the whole life of that time was a continuous sun." It's about the "universal fear" system.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        To the table

                        “I must go to the inner valleys again. Five thousand families are dying of starvation there. Not just starving, but dying of hunger” (Steinbeck).
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Millions of relatives of the victims, too, didn’t write a word

                        Moreover, they said (in the 1990s-2010s) that they had never heard of any hunger.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The conclusion was NOT

                        Be in your way. hi
                      13. -2
                        April 5 2020 10: 48
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        He who has ears, let him hear

                        this bullshit:
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Data - not always true.

                        how to understand?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Who promised?

                        YOU'RE YOU said you KNOW the true cause of the famine that people would forgive in the elections, liar
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I have no idols. Unlike you. "Newspapers" - who is it?

                        1. Submit articles and reports of YOUR idols and newspapers about HUNGER, liar
                        2. Newspapers are what you have been turned into newspapers
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Exclusively yours. And a draw more.

                        fool YOU approve of it, not me.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Is.

                        So imagine a liar.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Must go to the inland valleys again. Five thousand families die of starvation there. Not just starving, but dying of hunger "

                        Ignorant, "die" -NOT equal to "died", got it, no?
                        I, too, from hunger yesterday evening.
                        Yes, a liar, and read ONE Steinbeck:
                        Authorities try to help them with food and medical care

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Moreover, they said (in the 1990s-2010s) that they had never heard of any hunger.

                        fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Be your way

                        So long ago! lol
                      14. -1
                        April 5 2020 13: 17
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        how to understand?

                        You do not understand Russian?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        YOU said you KNOW the true cause of hunger

                        I said: yes, I know from the words of contemporaries, but not the whole reason, liar.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Submit articles and reports of YOUR idols

                        Once again, for those who think not with their heads: I have no idols. They do not exist in nature.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Newspapers are what you have turned newspapers into

                        To school, ignoramus! In specialized.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        YOU approve of it, not me.

                        And people like you created it. And even now you "do not approve" only because of the current situation. The situation will change - again you will begin to "violently approve".
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "die" is NOT equal to "died"

                        I would like to believe
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Authorities try to help them with food and medical care

                        "Trying"? Good business! But here in 1933 "the help they demanded has already been provided." Do you know who "demanded"? Writer. You asked about writers, didn't you? And also about the newspapermen:
                        The special correspondent of the newspaper For Food Industry reports to the People's Commissar of Agriculture Yakovlev:
                        “Out of the districts of the Vinnytsia region, two districts are in an extremely difficult situation - Umansky and Babansky ... Villages and villages are empty. You cannot even hear a dog barking, for the dogs are destroyed - eaten ... On this basis, murders are frequent: for two pounds of flour, the watchmen were killed; to steal a chicken, they killed a 13-year-old boy, a family was slaughtered for a sheep, etc. It got to the point that one collective farmer killed his two-year-old child, cooked it and ate it ... From hunger they died and die every day in large numbers: for example, in Gorodnitsa 12 people die daily from starvation. In Uman, 400 people died in May, that is, as many as in the entire last year. Every day on the streets of Uman in the morning they raise the corpses of peasants who have died of hunger from the village. More than a third of the rural population was swollen from hunger. "
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So long ago!

                        What exactly is "so"? Do you admit that there was such a famine in the United States as in the USSR? Or that the USSR was the same as in the USA? As we can see, there are suspiciously many coincidences.
                        And what is the difference between Orthodox churches? And where does it come from? Huh?
                      15. -3
                        April 5 2020 20: 44
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You do not understand Russian?

                        Bredyatinu "do not understand" yours: "Facts - not always truth".
                        WHAT is it?
                        You-Klitschko: "Not only just everything .. "? lol laughing
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I said: yes, I know from the words of contemporaries, but not the entire cause,

                        The reason ... consists of parts? belay lol AND? Wedging?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And people like you created it

                        It was created by YOU in 1917 and beyond, and the People's Commissars of the NKVD of the USSR and Berry and Yezhov and their gangs are your work
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I would like to believe

                        Learn Russian to understand!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        "Trying"? a good a business!

                        Certainly: no deaths from starvation.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But here in 1933, "the help they demanded was provided already".
                        After the DEATH of millions and mass cannibalism? lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Writer. You asked about the writers, right? And about the newspaper people:
                        "Special correspondent of the newspaper" For food industry "

                        Newspaper number, number, writer book, edition, wagging liar
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        What exactly is "so"?

                        belay fool
                        It :
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Be your way
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And what is the difference between Orthodox churches? And where does it come from? Huh?

                        All human beings. But all-different.
                        Got it, no? No.
                      16. -1
                        April 6 2020 12: 55
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Facts are not always true. "
                        WHAT is it?

                        "Fact is not the whole truth, it is only raw material." (Gorky) You should study what smart people say, and not invent nonsense. From idleness.
                        That's why
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The reason ... consists of parts

                        Yes. More precisely - from a complex of reasons. The famine of 1933 is a fact and this is the only thing that is known about it reliably. The truth about him (the scale, the number of victims, and most importantly the reasons) is completely unknown (and probably did not know) by anyone. There is too much information and they do not clarify, but confuse, darken the picture. Nowadays - all the more so - they probably do not know what people knew then.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        It was created by YOU in 1917

                        And you prepared yourself 1917 feel
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Certainly: no deaths from starvation.

                        Or many starved to death. Also unconditionally.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Newspaper number, number

                        Do not bring in the porch? fool tongue laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        writer book

                        This is not a book, ignoramus. And what kind of writer you should know. The one you slandered as an "anti-Soviet".
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        All human beings. But all-different.

                        Well well. It starts to reach you a little. My lessons are not in vain. So, I was right once again: the influence of the church on the Russian character (mentality) is such that it is permissible to neglect it. By virtue of its nullity. hi
                      17. -3
                        April 6 2020 14: 46
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        "The fact is still not all truth, he is only raw material. "(Gorky)

                        1. Who called this Turk ... smart? lol
                        Vasily Rozanov:
                        "Gorky himself, man completely uneducated, barely literate, or thought nothing, or thought very little: others, “bald old men” and “incapable radicals” thought for him ”

                        2. YOU-What you write, sclerosis: Facts - not always true".?
                        DIFFERENCE - do not you think?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Cause...from parts composed

                        Yes. More precisely - from complex of reasons.

                        The reason is ... of the reasons! belay lol
                        Brother Klitschko, for sure! Or ... SAM, eh?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        . The famine of 1933 is a fact and this is the only thing that is known about it reliably. The truth about him (the scale, the number of victims, and most importantly the reasons) is completely unknown (and probably did not know) by anyone. There is too much information and they do not clarify, but confuse, darken the picture. Nowadays - all the more so - they probably do not know what people knew then.

                        You screamed about the "well-known" REASON, which will be forgiven at the top
                        WHAT are you carrying now ?!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And you prepared yourself 1917

                        And not Adam and Eve?
                        BEFORE you was the MOST DEMOCRATIC country in the world (or Ilych recognized)
                        WHAT you done to her ?! YOU have shot it for decades, banished, imprisoned, banned, crushed, deprived, and created a monster system
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Or many starved to death. Also unconditionally.

                        Of course, that NO STATISTICS and promotion of your nonsense does not confirm, even the SOVIET
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Do not bring in the porch?

                        Isn’t a Russian tanker? I repeat: Newspaper number, number
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Well well. Before you start a little to reach. My lessons are not in vain.

                        Impotence, incoherence and chatter come from you. hi
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        the influence of the church on the Russian character (mentality) is such that it is permissible to neglect it. By virtue of its nullity.

                        The Russian Church created the Russian people and Russia.
                      18. -1
                        April 7 2020 10: 46
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Who called this Turk ... smart?

                        Gorky, however ... not a Turk. Are you lost again? fool And he was called smart about ... very many. It is not enough to say - to smart ones: "real, great talent", "great talent", etc.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Vasily Rozanov:
                        “Gorky himself, a man completely uneducated, barely literate, either thought nothing, or thought very little: others,“ bald old men ”and“ incapable radicals ”thought for him”

                        "... but what does envy not do!" (I.S. Turgenev).
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Facts are not always true "

                        I write: "Facts are not always ALREADY true." Is the meaning clear? If not, then it's not a nickname, it's ... something unicellular ... And don't try to lie - you are even deprived of the ability for this.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You screamed about the "well-known" REASON, which will be forgiven at the top

                        I talked about the reason that most likely we knew THEN and we don’t know NOW. Do not try to lie - see above. lol
                        Speaking of elections. If the famine was really the way it is now portrayed, a great many people should have known about it without any "voice acting". If the authorities had "voiced" from the angle they needed: the intrigues of enemies, sabotage of kulaks, etc., the "voice acting" would certainly have played in its favor - then they believed such arguments. And the "non-sound" was supposed to worsen the attitude towards the authorities - "hides". As I understand it. However, even the Germans did not particularly use this topic in propaganda. Why?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        NO STATISTICS and promotion of your nonsense - does not confirm

                        Statistics and propaganda of your nonsense also often do not confirm. And then it refutes it. And here: it is quite possible that she, statistics, is simply not there. And there wasn’t. The Americans did not consider their own.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Impotence, incoherence and chatter come from you

                        From you - yes. From me there are clear, well-grounded arguments against which your nonsense and nonsense are completely powerless.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The Russian Church created the Russian people and Russia.

                        Yeah, but Christ spoke Ukrainian. Once again: do not lie, you are weak here just like in history, mathematics and Russian. Very bad. fool negative
                      19. -2
                        April 7 2020 11: 51
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Gorky, however ... not a Turk.

                        withTurk.
                        how hard it comes .....request
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And he was called smart about ... very many. It is not enough to say - to smart ones: "real, great talent", "great talent", etc.

                        "The cuckoo praises the rooster ..." lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I write: "Facts are not always ALREADY true. "Is the meaning clear?

                        How can you understand ... "already" nonsense? That "not always", then .. "not all."
                        What are you carrying? fool lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I talked about the reason that most likely we knew THEN and we don’t know NOW.

                        WHAT they knew then and DO NOT know now when the archives are open, decisions that YOURS carefully kept secret, for they knew that they would receive in the face, and how ?!

                        What are you talking about, cynic and ignoramus ?!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Statistics and propaganda of your nonsense also often do not confirm. And then it refutes it. And here: it is quite possible that she, statistics, is simply not there. And there wasn’t. The Americans did not consider their own.

                        1. NEVER, NOBODY could refute my figures, for they are not mine, but the source.
                        2. Sov. propagandists and "scientists" also ... did not count the dead hungry amers Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        . From me - clear, reasonable arguments. against which your nonsense and nonsense are completely powerless.

                        3. fool lol Explore Narcissistic Personality Disorder Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yeah, but Christ spoke Ukrainian.

                        fool lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You are here as weak as in history, mathematics and the Russian language. All

                        see Clause 3 Yes
                      20. -1
                        April 7 2020 15: 12
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        grounding.

                        This is not Gorky either. Of the two of you, at least. wink
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        What are you carrying?

                        You are carrying. And it is known that - nonsense, nonsense and nonsense. And I state clear arguments and true facts.
                        Yes
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        YOUR CAREFULLY secret, for they knew that they would receive in the face, and how?

                        Do you know what they knew? Did they tell you this? Empowered to say that? Or maybe you are one of them, eh? Confess, lighten the soul! negative
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHAT they knew then and DO NOT know now when archives and solutions are open

                        And what do they know now that the archives are open?
                        I know that people in the city were starving in 1933, and in a village 8-10 km from this city, 1933 was remembered as "very well fed". Why did it happen? From the archive can you find out, liar?
                        Is it possible to find out from the open archives why in some villages there were many who died of hunger, and in neighboring villages not a single one, although there were also starvation? People explain: "Thanks to the collective farm" - is this confirmed by the archives?
                        Finally, is it possible to find out the details of the causes of hunger, called contemporaries:
                        “They didn’t want to work! : “A drunk private farmer sits under a teahouse .... This year he did not plow or sow at all, but the carrion (grain that crumbled during the harvest of last year) sprang up so well, and the year was so successful in weather that on his land, wheat was spoiled for envy. They say to him - Ivan, go squint! And he: “Whoever sowed it, let him mow!”
                        "A huge, more than 2000 yards, steppe village in the Kherson region - Arkhangelka - was dead during the hot harvest season. One hammer worked in one shift (8 people). The rest of the labor force - men, women, teenagers - sat, lay, reclined in" chill. "I walked through the village - from end to end - I felt creepy. I tried to start conversations. They answered slowly, reluctantly. And with complete indifference. I said:" There is bread in the rolls, and in some places it stands. This one is already crumbled and disappeared, and the one in the rolls will perish. - Well, you know, it will perish, - they answered me with absolute indifference "(Grigorenko).
                        You are reasoning somehow strange: the archives are open, the archives are open! And what is there - everything about everything? Archives are documents, and documents do not contain what "everyone knows" either. But over time, this "well-known" is forgotten! Therefore, oral stories of contemporaries are important - they may contain such facts that have never happened in any archive. And together they, written and oral sources, can give the truth! And that's not all. Got it, didn't it? fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        owls. propagandists and "scientists" too ... did not count the dead hungry amers

                        Did you think?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Explore Narcissistic Personality Disorder

                        I don’t need it. I am doing a more useful thing: exposing liars from history. And not without success, I must say! laughing
                      21. -2
                        April 7 2020 15: 22
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is too

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Carry

                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Work

                        They lifted up their new: no knowledge, no conscience, nothing.

                        "To freedom!" Yes lol
                      22. -1
                        April 7 2020 11: 46
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And not Adam and Eve?

                        Already the sons of this couple started a fratricidal war. Losses amounted to about 25% of the world's population ... request
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Before you was the MOST DEMOCRATIC country in the world

                        Is the country with OFFICIAL class division the most democratic in the world? You can imagine what the world was like! fool
                        But the main thing is that for some reason contemporaries did not notice this. They wanted to overthrow the existing system (in the best case, to greatly modernize) and instead establish anything: a monarchy on the German or English model (Germany and Great Britain were not so democratic?) Or a republic like in France (is she too?), Etc. But when it was overthrown, and then for decades, NOBODY (except for "individual dumbass") offered to restore it. For "he did not want to, and he could not destroy the causes that gave rise to social injustice, the remnants of serfdom, economic and cultural backwardness."
                        And stop lying - it won’t help.
                      23. -2
                        April 7 2020 12: 10
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Already the sons of this couple started a fratricidal war.

                        fool lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Country with OFFICIAL class division - the most democratic in the world? You can imagine what the world was like!

                        That's what Russia called YOUR bald parasite-foreign tourist in April 1917.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But most importantly, for some reason, contemporaries did not notice this.
                        You - WHO authorized to speak on behalf of contemporaries?
                        None?
                        Well, so, ON freedom! lol
                      24. -1
                        April 7 2020 14: 39
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That's what Russia called YOUR bald parasite-foreign tourist in April 1917.

                        Rather, he said that Russia WILL BE the most democratic when power passes to the proletariat, which overthrew the Provisional Government, which seeks to "restore monarchist, tsarist methods." Is not it? Will, and not eat, and even more so, was not.
                        And in April 1917, Russia was a country that a month earlier "faded in two, maximum three days," with an army, economy, state structures falling apart during the war, an increase in crime and a boiling civil war. You say the Bolsheviks have eliminated such "freedom"? For this (only for ONE that!) They deserve the eternal gratitude of their unworthy descendants.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You - WHO authorized to speak on behalf of contemporaries?

                        Yes - who authorized you to speak on their behalf (what do you constantly do)? None? So pull the tail! fool stop
                      25. -2
                        April 7 2020 14: 54
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        More truly: said that Russia WILL the most democratic, when power passes to the proletariat, which overthrew the Provisional Government, which seeks to "restore monarchist, tsarist methods." Is not it? Will, and not eat, and even more so, was not.

                        Yes, you are not at all Copenhagen and even .... you don’t know your bald, disgrace !:
                        l carla: Russia is now the freest country in the world

                        Got it, no?
                        And about "democracy":
                        Not a parliamentary republic, but a republic of Soviets

                        That's the whole "democracy". request
                        Got it, no?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yes - who authorized you to speak on their behalf (what do you constantly do)?

                        belay fool lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        So press

                        Your advice is there, to the Soviets! lol

                        "To freedom!"
                      26. 0
                        April 7 2020 15: 40
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes, you are not Copenhagen at all, and you don’t even know

                        I know him and, most importantly, how you lie.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        l carla: Russia is now the freest country in the world

                        Russia is now the freest country in the world FROM ALL WARING COUNTRIES, isn't it, liar? This is not at all the same as "the freest in the world."
                        Most importantly, study other documents on the same topic. And again: stop lying so brainlessly. "If you can't - don't torture."
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And about "democracy":
                        Not a parliamentary republic, but a republic of Soviets
                        That's the whole "democracy"

                        That's right: the republic of Soviets, "capable not in words but in deeds of breaking the entire network of relations and interests of capital - only in this case will the workers ... be able to quickly put an end to the war on the basis of a truly democratic, truly liberating all peoples and nationalities of the world." ... Those. real democracy.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Your advice is there,

                        Follow up. soldier
                      27. 0
                        April 10 2020 20: 21
                        you are right p. 100-150 years behind civilized countries, but in 1917 people with the same mentality came to power. The camel was asked what is worse to go uphill or through a swamp. And that and that muck camel said (s)
                      28. -1
                        April 4 2020 17: 32
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        We had a Russian Orthodox Church, others had a Polish Orthodox Church, etc., and they are all DIFFERENT, despite COMMUNITY.
                        SHO, wedge?

                        Understood the question, I answer: yes, you go crazy. So, Orthodox churches are ALL DIFFERENT? What's the difference? And, say, the so-called. "Great Russian" church and Old Believer - are they one and two? fool
    5. +6
      29 March 2020 16: 40
      It is not necessary to give Gorky quotes, but to think about the moral and religious condition of those who were at the bottom: a hereditary thief, an alcoholic. . . and not a single believer but the preacher of Luke.
      And do not forget that the Church is not a tax police.
      1. -2
        30 March 2020 08: 08
        Quote: Vilensky
        And do not forget that the Church is not a tax police.
        Let me think ... the church "tithe", which everyone pays, and if they do not pay - there is a decrease in social rights and opportunities. And I'm not talking about tsarist times - this is today's realities!
  2. +35
    29 March 2020 07: 14
    I have only one question, but for what money did IT build it up?
    Who was taken from?
    1. -19
      29 March 2020 09: 38
      Quote: Vasily50
      I have only one question, but for what money did IT build it up?
      Who was taken from?

      They didn’t take it away from anyone, it’s just that Russia is rebuilding .. And its backbone is the faith and allies of the Army and Navy! ..That's something ..
      In the west, in every village, there is a Catholic church, and even the hymn contains the words "God bless America" ​​..
      Orthodoxy is the basis of Russia, and even during the USSR, Stalin recognized it during the Second World War in 41 .. (he released the monks from the camps whom the Jewish KGB did not kill)
      So it is not in vain that the ROC is being persecuted and vulgarized in the same Outskirts, and ours are direct, like demons, democrats rushing at everything related to faith, etc. ..
      I believe, but I’ll go to church when I’m already very old .. Sins to grind.
      But I like the ringing of bells, here we have brought the bells to the modest church of the hut .. So it’s good when you hear this ringing .. And the Muslims have a full-fledged beautiful mosque. And I’m happy for them ..
      1. BAI
        +17
        29 March 2020 11: 16
        Orthodoxy is the basis of Russia, and even during the Soviet era, it was recognized by Stalin himself during the Second World War in 41.



        And there are many such photos.
        1. -6
          29 March 2020 11: 20
          Quote: BAI
          And there are many such photos.

          But there are also many other photos that are not missed here. hi
          This is Ukraine, most likely ... Vaughn Vlasov, "Judas prays" devil, bespectacled (they hung his devil))) .. negative
          1. +4
            29 March 2020 16: 40
            Quote: BAI
            Quote: Vasily50
            I have only one question, but for what money did IT build it up? Who was taken from?
            They didn’t take it away from anyone, it’s just that Russia is rebuilding .. And its backbone is the faith and allies of the Army and Navy! ..That's something ..
            Understand this issue yourself first - namely, about the collaboration of the priests of the Russian Orthodox Church as "mediators" between God on earth and the people in their minds, otherwise it is a pity to read you.
            - The Russian Orthodox Church has always been the largest landowner in the Republic of Ingushetia and a serfman for the people.
            - The Russian Orthodox Church opposed the liberation of the peasants from serfdom and condemned Alexander II - the Tsar-liberator - for the liberation of the peasants from feudal landlords ..
            - In 1917, the Russian Orthodox Church betrayed the monarch of the Republic of Ingushetia Nicholas II - ran over to the side of the bourgeois class.
            And now the Russian Orthodox Church serves "opium for the people" in the interests of the Russian oligarchocracy. The same Cyril is a church oligarch striving for secular power.

            And saying that the Vlasovites are the DARK spot of our history, we must not forget about the DARK spots of the Russian Orthodox Church - the collaboration of the Orthodox clergy in the territories of the USSR occupied by Germans. Those. about the dark spots of the Russian Orthodox Church, which collaborated with the Vlasovites and German occupiers during the Second World War.
            Until now, the official publications about the Second World War ignore the fact that one of the main reasons for the defeat of the Red Army in the initial period of the war was the successful activity of the German special services. The religious policy of the Third Reich was carried out systematically, thoughtfully, according to pre-worked out schemes and programs. In the occupied Soviet territories, numerous churches of the Russian Orthodox Church were opened.
            In connection with the organization of actions to carry out the operation "Barbarossa" in the occupied territories, the head of the security police and SD Heydrich on July 2, 1941 pointed out to the senior commanders of the SS and security police: "Against the aspirations of the Orthodox Church to spread its influence to the masses, do nothing. On the contrary, in every possible way to promote them, and ... to avoid the unity of the church. Also, do not impede the formation of religious sects. ”
            At the same time, Hitler did not think about any revival of the Russian Orthodox Church itself, as well as Orthodoxy in the occupied territories of Soviet Russia, namely, it used the Russian Orthodox Church’s clergymen, the blind faith of the people in God and the temporary revival of the administrative apparatus of the Russian Orthodox Church in the occupied territories of the USSR in the form of “ soft ”German power for the decomposition of the state forming the historical people and the geopolitical disappearance of Russia itself.

            ROC on the way to the great Victory. May 9, 2015
            1. 0
              30 March 2020 08: 38
              Show me at least someone who in 1917 would sympathize with the king? Nicholas II already got everyone, but the clergy simply rejoiced that the head of state would no longer be the head of the church. Their caesarepapism infuriated since the time of Peter I, who pressed them to the nail a little.
          2. +3
            30 March 2020 10: 41
            Vaughn Vlasov, "praying Judas" devil bespectacled (hung his devil)))

            You can add - and who elevated Vlasov to the commanders and whose he was a favorite?
        2. +1
          29 March 2020 16: 12
          BAI, but Stalin did not know about this ??
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +8
          29 March 2020 17: 44
          Quote: BAI
          And there are many such photos.


          Those too and what?

          And how then to be with this member of the CPSU (b) since 1930?
          1. BAI
            -3
            29 March 2020 21: 58
            Those too and what?

            It is necessary to distinguish the Russian Orthodox Church in the occupied and not occupied territories. In the occupied ROC - for the Germans. On not occupied - against. Such a principled position. Although they would try in the unoccupied territories to be for the Germans. It is now possible to oppose the state.
            And how then to be with this member of the CPSU (b) since 1930?

            But no way. I already wrote about this. How is it different from Paulus? But Paulus, when he began to cooperate with us, was good, and Vlasov began to cooperate with the Germans - bad. It was not necessary to drive troops into the boilers and throw them there. There would be no treacherous attitude towards the army at the top, there would be no betrayal in the army. At both sides.
            1. +3
              29 March 2020 22: 28
              Quote: BAI
              In the occupied ROC - for the Germans

              Nonsense. were among the priests and partisans and underground.

              Quote: BAI
              How is it different from Paulus?

              I really didn’t know that Paulus created the German Liberation Army, which participated in the battles against the Wehrmacht.
            2. -2
              30 March 2020 08: 40
              And for the betrayal in the army do not want to explain? Or maybe you are for Hitler?
          2. -1
            30 March 2020 08: 39
            But the archimandrite was not awarded for archimandrite activity.
      2. +4
        29 March 2020 12: 58
        Quote: Boltunov
        And the Muslims have a full-fledged beautiful mosque. And I'm happy for them

        And the mullah does not yell in the morning from his bowels?
        1. -1
          29 March 2020 13: 08
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Boltunov
          And the Muslims have a full-fledged beautiful mosque. And I'm happy for them

          And the mullah does not yell in the morning from his bowels?

          First yelling ..))) in 2000 oh .. Then they explained to him the political situation! Silent since .. hehe soldier
        2. +5
          29 March 2020 18: 08
          Mullah himself does not yell, the muezzin is engaged in this.
          1. 0
            29 March 2020 19: 31
            Quote: Sergej1972
            the muezzin does this.

            Well, I don’t know who is there, what is there ...
          2. 0
            30 March 2020 08: 43
            You do not make mene funny, since when in the 21st century should someone yell? For this, a tape recorder has long been invented. We once had a case here, even before mass digital recording, when the film stuck in the process.
      3. +1
        30 March 2020 08: 10
        Quote: Boltunov
        They didn’t take it away from anyone, it’s just the restoration of Russia .. And its ridge Vera and allies Army and Navy! ..That's something ..
        Recovery?
        Replacing science with religion?
        Faith, how did you get in here?
        You Lying and mislead people!
      4. +1
        30 March 2020 08: 47
        Yesterday. Is it possible to condemn a person for his faith. But shifting his past sins to the church is also wrong. If a person does not become a judge for his wrong actions and words, then he has lived his life in vain. “He knows all thoughts and deeds in advance.” This also applies to the Creator.
      5. -1
        30 March 2020 16: 35
        By magic and God's will created. But neither bricks, nor labor, nor glass in the windows, it cost nothing. And then they are surprised that they are being called to the lanterns.
    2. +16
      29 March 2020 10: 19
      Here it is written that ...
      Von Gundyaev openly made a keynote statement both on OUR history and in relation to citizens of RUSSIA. According to Christian theologians, God only once directly addressed a message to people, this message was recorded there. And where does so much theological literature come from?
      It is disgusting that today theologians are misinterpreting the history of the RUSSIAN-RUSSIAN EMPIRE-SOVIET UNION-RUSSIA
      Believers in the church, along with the clergy, have already forgiven themselves and their predecessors for slavery and numerous prisons and the Inquisition, and much more has already been forgiven. But at the same time they become in the pose of moral mentors and continue to consider all slaves.
    3. 0
      30 March 2020 14: 51
      This money could have come up with a much better application. Unfortunately, the ROC has compromised itself with scandals with snickering priests. Yes, there are normal priests, but they are lost in the general background.
  3. +9
    29 March 2020 07: 22
    the slavish nature in man, will never let him reveal in himself .. all his possibilities.
    1. +8
      29 March 2020 09: 22
      “Give the person what they need - and they will want amenities. Provide him with amenities - he will strive for luxury. Showered with luxury - he will begin to sigh in exquisite. Let him be exquisite - he will crave frenzy. Give it to everyone that he wishes - he will complain that he was deceived, and that he received not what he wanted ”
      1. +1
        30 March 2020 08: 43
        That is precisely how the USSR fell apart with its idea of ​​satisfying growing needs.
    2. -2
      29 March 2020 22: 46
      Quote: Sniper
      the slavish nature in man, will never let him reveal in himself .. all his possibilities
      It is these ALL possibilities that any not necessarily religious culture seeks to limit, filter out, except for liberalism that has entered a historical dead end, by the way, which gave rise to both atheism and Marxism. "A man is capable of a lot ... This is what strains me." If culture does not limit, then anything can come out of a person, for you are sinful by your imperfect nature. And the servant of God will not become a slave of people and their evil desires. This alignment
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 22: 59
        Quote: sniperino
        But the servant of God will not become a slave to people and his evil drives.
        Or so: a person cannot become a servant of God until he is freed not from everything, but from the evil (sinful) from the position of the Commandments of the influence of his own nature and society. You cannot serve two masters.
  4. +31
    29 March 2020 07: 31
    Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.
    But to build now, in their place, "remakes" is, in my opinion, sheer stupidity.
    Turned and forward in the Middle Ages! smile
    1. +1
      29 March 2020 07: 45
      Quote: Bastinda
      Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

      A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
      But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.
      1. +16
        29 March 2020 07: 52
        Quote: bober1982
        But why destroyed, what is the reason?

        Because - opium for the people. The church is the largest enormous lying structure, which with its teaching puts a clamp on people. Hello from the agnostic.
        1. +3
          29 March 2020 07: 56
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Because - opium for the people

          Well, that you repeat such nonsense, even somehow awkwardly.
          1. +20
            29 March 2020 08: 04
            Quote: bober1982
            Well, that you repeat such nonsense, even somehow awkwardly.

            And what is wrong? Do you believe in the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary? I doubt. Believe that some type of fashioned Adam from clay? And Eve from the ribs? Well, believe yourself further. Just do not get me into this garbage.
            1. +9
              29 March 2020 08: 06
              Do you believe in the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary? I doubt.

              I believe! She had such honest eyes ... laughing
            2. -2
              29 March 2020 08: 07
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Just do not get me into this garbage.

              Nobody gets you involved, by the way.
              1. +18
                29 March 2020 08: 12
                Quote: bober1982
                Nobody messes you up, by the way.

                Get mixed up, get mixed up. Starting from the late grandmother. It is necessary to cross themselves, then they shout that there is no cross on me, then they ask what religion I am. There, and dragged into the constitution of God. And she is alone at all. The question is, why?
                1. -3
                  29 March 2020 08: 18
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Get mixed up, get mixed up. Starting from the late grandmother

                  One should stay away from relatives, in the sense of not listening to their advice. They, and this is well known, are the first enemies.
                  1. +2
                    29 March 2020 20: 28
                    Beaver, what are the relatives to blame? Actually, the Bible also says: "honor your father and mother." Joke
                2. 0
                  30 March 2020 08: 17
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Starting from the late grandmother.
                  Don't talk about grandmothers! Mine baptized me (at home, by the way), but at the same time the "evil eye" ... how is that? ... deduced, "fright" ... in short - she was a little bit of a witch. Here is the mother - yes: she tried to introduce. I even tried. Everything "disappeared" when I read the Bible.
            3. +1
              29 March 2020 23: 10
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Believe that some type of fashioned Adam from clay?
              You believe that Adam hatched out of clay by himself, you call this nonsense "evolution". Smart word, what other proof ...
              1. -2
                30 March 2020 09: 02
                Quote: sniperino
                You believe that Adam hatched out of clay by himself, you call this stupidity "evolution."

                I don’t believe it, just.
          2. +6
            29 March 2020 10: 53
            Quote: bober1982
            Well, that you repeat such nonsense, even somehow awkwardly.

            where are we to your gundyaeva, he and the coronovirus called you the path to God.
            1. 0
              29 March 2020 11: 55
              Quote: Andy
              he and the coronovirus called you the path to God.

              Yes, that's right - first rushing around for toilet paper, this is the first stage, and the second stage (brain cleansing) - to the Church.
              1. 0
                29 March 2020 12: 54
                Quote: bober1982
                and in the second stage (brain cleansing) - to the Church.

                And the third step there too. At the funeral service.
        2. -1
          29 March 2020 13: 12
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: bober1982
          But why destroyed, what is the reason?

          Because - opium for the people. The church is the largest enormous lying structure, which with its teaching puts a clamp on people. Hello from the agnostic.

          And you persecute us again .. Here in the USA everyone goes to church .. And then they kill, WHOLE COUNTRIES! And you are here Vovchik
          1. +3
            29 March 2020 13: 19
            Quote: Boltunov
            And you persecute us again .. Here in the USA everyone goes to church .. And then they kill, WHOLE COUNTRIES! And you are here Vovchik

            Vital, and there the church of Satan is officially authorized. And go there. request
            1. -1
              29 March 2020 13: 52
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Boltunov
              And you persecute us again .. Here in the USA everyone goes to church .. And then they kill, WHOLE COUNTRIES! And you are here Vovchik

              Vital, and there the church of Satan is officially authorized. And go there. request

              That's right, and what am I trying to prove here .. Well, in the Sabbaths and the Ku Klus Klan they are still fans of Satan
              Faith is in our hearts and let them try to pick out the bastards ..
        3. +4
          29 March 2020 16: 55
          Mordvin, I agree with you on something: if the last 15-20 years before the 1917 ROC had not turned into a formal structure, it would have been better. By the way, formalism is also rude to the CPSU.
          1. +1
            30 March 2020 05: 01
            if the last 15-20 ln the eve of 1917 the ROC had not turned into a formal structure, it would have been better.

            It would be better if you did not write about what you do not understand Yes
            The formal structure of the last 15-20 years on the eve of 1917. The Russian Orthodox Church could not be for a good reason ... it simply did not exist. wink The Russian Orthodox Church appeared only in the autumn of 1943. Yes
            Until 1917 in the Republic of Ingushetia, the so-called a synodal period existed the Orthodox catholic Greek-Russian church.
            From 1917 to 1943, the Patriarchal Church was isolated from the state on the territory of the USSR.
            Before you decide to object that the name is not the issue, read on how these churches differ from each other. Yes Hint - Pay special attention to terms such as "Locality" and "Eucharistic communion"
      2. +13
        29 March 2020 08: 04
        recognition of errors always only respects
        His ... These are not my mistakes, I am young for them laughing
        Himself from Kostroma: "In 1922, the Kremlin churches were handed over to the renovationists, in 1929 they were closed, in 1934 they were demolished [6]. A park was laid out on the site of the temple complex in the historical center of Kostroma - a favorite place for Kostroma residents and guests of the city, the center of which was a gigantic monument to V. I. Lenin. It was placed on a pedestal prepared in 1913 (during the celebration of the 300th anniversary of the dynasty) for a grandiose monument in honor of the reigning house of the Romanovs. "https://ru.wikipedia.org / wiki / Kostroma_Kremlin
        Also consider a mistake. But recovery is even more stupid. In the region, there are many abandoned churches, but nobody will restore them. There will be no profit ...
        1. Fat
          +4
          29 March 2020 08: 58
          Quote: Bastinda
          recovery is even more stupid. In the region, there are many abandoned churches, but nobody will restore them. There will be no profit ...

          I am also Kostromich. The restoration of the temple complex of the Kostroma Kremlin is a completely private initiative and financing is the same.
          The only help from the administration is permission to do this work.
      3. +8
        29 March 2020 08: 27
        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Bastinda
        Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

        A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
        But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

        Thunder because it was the only way to get the bulk of the people out of the religious swamp. Show what kind of going to school, work at the factory, raising children not in church dogma there will be no punishment from above. Do not forget that in that era it was necessary to work with people who, for 20 generations, had been driven into their heads by this damned religious nonsense. So I had to knock out forcibly. But they knocked it out. And they became the most reading nation, and carried out industrialization faster than anyone in the world, catching up and surpassing those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ... And now it was worth releasing the reins again in Orthodoxy in schools, the president walks from coronavirus in prayers and processions in crowds of 10 thousand people, not to mention everything else connected with this nice business ... Extremism is not extremism, but the Bolsheviks were right when shooting priests and blowing up these temples.
        1. -2
          29 March 2020 08: 39
          Quote: oleg123219307
          Extremism is not extremism, but the Bolsheviks were right when shooting priests and blowing up these temples.

          This is how Archpriest Ornatsky was shot (along with his sons)
          Red Army platoon - refused and fled, the Chinese were called, these also refused.
          Finished young non-Russian commissars.
          1. 0
            29 March 2020 11: 55
            Quote: bober1982
            Quote: oleg123219307
            Extremism is not extremism, but the Bolsheviks were right when shooting priests and blowing up these temples.

            This is how Archpriest Ornatsky was shot (along with his sons)
            Red Army platoon - refused and fled, the Chinese were called, these also refused.
            Finished young non-Russian commissars.

            And why, then, the piously believing parishioners did not defend such a beautiful (like any priest, by default, aha-aha) person? Why, after the revolution, for the most part, not only did the peasantry not defend the priests, but also "dispossessed" them? From gratitude, or what? Please hang the noodles on the ears of the Chinese - they will eat it and ask for supplements.
            1. +3
              30 March 2020 06: 01
              And why then did not the faithful parishioners defend such a beautiful (like any pop, by default, huh-huh) man?

              Ornatsky was popular in both the army and the navy. Contained under arrest in Kronstadt. Where I was relatively safe. Both the Baltic sailors and the soldiers of the Kronstadt garrison were opposed to the execution of Ornatsky, moreover, they did not allow the "Chinese comrades" sent from Petrograd to enter Kronstadt. Ornatsky was secretly shot by Latvian riflemen under the pretext of transferring him from detention in Kronstadt to Oranienbaum.
              1. +1
                April 2 2020 01: 15
                Thanks for the info. Of course, I was anti-clerical, smartly speaking, but not so much.
          2. +2
            30 March 2020 05: 36
            Philosopher Nikolayevich Ornatsky

            archpriest of the Orthodox catholic Greek-Russian church.
            Born June 2, 1860, churchyard Novaya Yerga, Novgorod province. He graduated from the Kirillov Theological College, St. Petersburg Theological Seminary (1881), St. Petersburg Theological Academy with a candidate of theology degree (1885).
            As a regimental priest took part in four wars of the Republic of Ingushetia. The only person from the clergy of the Republic of Ingushetia awarded four degrees of the Order of the Holy Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince Vladimir

            Since 1913 - rector of the Kazan Cathedral in St. Petersburg. The vowel of the Duma from the clergy, was a member of the Duma commissions on public education and charity. For 26 years he was chairman of the St. Petersburg Society of Education.
            During the First World War, he gave his apartment under the infirmary for the wounded soldiers, and he and his family moved to a small government building. Repeatedly traveled to war zones, escorting transports with items and goods necessary for soldiers.
            He was arrested in August 1918. Together with him, the sons of Nikolai (1886-1918, a military doctor) and Boris (1887-1918, the captain of the artillery) were arrested. Archpriest Philosopher Ornatsky and his sons were shot by Latvian arrows during the Red Terror, presumably around October 30, 1918. According to some reports, the shooting took place in Kronstadt, according to others - not far from the Gulf of Finland between Ligovo and Oranienbaum. The bodies of those shot were dumped into the bay.
            Filled with saints of the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000 ..
        2. +3
          29 March 2020 09: 14
          Quote: oleg123219307
          And they became the most reading nation, and industrialized faster than anyone in the world, having caught up with and surpassed those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ..

          And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 09: 27
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: oleg123219307
            And they became the most reading nation, and industrialized faster than anyone in the world, having caught up with and surpassed those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ..

            And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!

            ====
            true, but the goals were good (and even now they are relevant), but the money and the people themselves let us down. but they returned, returned to the familiar, to the environment, but is it better from this? and judging by the percentage of those in need, wars and the state of the environment, then no.
            1. +3
              29 March 2020 18: 34
              Quote: Victorio
              but the goals were good

              Good intentions laid the road to hell!
          2. +7
            29 March 2020 09: 30
            Trying to return. Over the past 20 years, education has deteriorated, production has been destroyed, many technologies have been lost, the role of religion has increased.
            "Look at the Root" K. Prutkov
          3. +1
            29 March 2020 11: 25
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: oleg123219307
            And they became the most reading nation, and industrialized faster than anyone in the world, having caught up with and surpassed those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ..

            And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!

            Bars and groves ..? )))))
            It really feels here, what we are being targeted for .. soldier
          4. -2
            29 March 2020 12: 54
            Quote: kalibr
            And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!

            Maybe it's time again?
            1. 0
              29 March 2020 16: 24
              That's it. Return to the very smart, reading and creating nation.
          5. +1
            29 March 2020 13: 21
            Quote: kalibr
            And where is all this?

            Read as you see. If you hadn’t read, you wouldn’t have oiled butter on bread, I guess.
        3. +8
          29 March 2020 09: 14
          people who 20 generations drove into the heads of this damned religious nonsense.
          Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests. It is worth recalling Pushkin, Perov, Tolstoy, Russian fairy tales.
          1. +8
            29 March 2020 10: 00
            Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests. It is worth recalling Pushkin, Perov, Tolstoy, Russian fairy tales

            Everything is logical. But you probably see the difference in the words and deeds of today's priests. Yes, and before you allowed yourself to see the priests a little.
          2. +8
            29 March 2020 10: 04
            Religion is one thing, and clergy under it is another. They (priests) are just as relevant to religion as the late CPSU (model of the 1980s) to the communist idea.
          3. +2
            29 March 2020 12: 57
            Quote: Bastinda
            Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests. It is worth recalling Pushkin, Perov, Tolstoy, Russian fairy tales.

            Belief in God and business in the form of the Russian Orthodox Church are very different things. Faith is the internal state of man. And you can believe not only in God. I now believe in the unlimited potential for the development of mankind, although before my eyes mostly shit. Someone believes in a god whom he has not seen. To each his own. Faith is an inner and personal feeling independent of external factors by and large. And to make business out of it is vile in my opinion.
          4. +1
            30 March 2020 15: 49
            Quote: Bastinda
            Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests.

            Pretty natural. “I believe in God, priests - I don’t believe”, “The worst sinners are our priests” are real statements of real Russian people who call themselves believers and even churchgoers.
          5. The comment was deleted.
      4. +8
        29 March 2020 10: 20
        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Bastinda
        Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

        A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
        But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

        And the reasons were quite objective: in the eyes of the peasant masses, the church through its ministers discredited itself. An example with the same fists: a peasant falls into his eternal debt bondage, cannot repay debts (Podkulaks), and to whom to go for protection? Barin doesn't give a damn. Maybe at least they will intercede in the church for the poor? Yeah, now. Local pop in collusion with his fist. Here is the fierce hatred that the Soviet government even had to restrain.
      5. +2
        29 March 2020 11: 04
        The reason is the centuries-old invasion of the church in secular affairs. Penalties, corporal punishment, but hunched over to the church. I say again, if there would be a separation of church and state, there would most likely have been no consequences such as those in the 20-30s. But this does not justify the persecution of the church at that time. It was a mistake.
      6. +10
        29 March 2020 12: 17
        Quote: bober1982
        But why destroyed, what is the reason?

        I think the most prosaic, stemming from the depths of centuries.
        Religion and power are a complementary pair. Religion sacrifices power, power for this gives religious organizations the opportunity to earn money, which in the end, in fact, is their main, albeit not the most obvious, at first glance, goal. It was always and everywhere, at all times and in all corners of the planet.
        For 1000 years since the baptism of Russia, the Russian Church managed to collect (contrary to its own postulates) simply enormous wealth, was the custodian of a huge number of values ​​(including cultural and historical) and one of the largest landowners in the state, and this despite the periodic secularization carried out kings (yes, the Bolsheviks were not the first secularisers).
        The Bolsheviks who came to power in 1917 began to carry out total nationalization and secularization of property, as a result of which all the owners - landowners, manufacturers, bankers suffered, but the Orthodox Church suffered especially large losses, simply because it had something to take away, and the Bolsheviks were distinguished precisely by the fact that they tried to bring what they had begun to the end, without constraining themselves with the choice of methods. It is not surprising that the Church became in opposition to the new government, and the opposition is tough and irreconcilable. The choice, of course, among the highest church hierarchs was not the most pleasant - to voluntarily give up everything acquired by thousands of years of "backbreaking work", change shoes in a jump, bless the new government and actively participate in the construction of a new young state, or become an opponent of this government, declare "war" on it, to fight with all their might for their property and privileges, with an unclear outcome. We chose the latter, which, in general, does not surprise me at all - which of us would have acted differently? - they lost the fight, but did not recognize defeat; intelligence, political flexibility and talent to look ahead, to foresee the development of events was not enough even for that, remaining and actively positioning themselves as an enemy of the new government.
        How the Bolsheviks acted with their enemies is well known. I think that in that situation, such decisive and consistent measures to eliminate any destabilizing factor were the only things that could save the country from final collapse and collapse. The Soviet government mercilessly destroyed its enemies and tried to do this to the very root. The Church was no exception.
        Personally, I believe that the blame for such a terrible defeat of the church economy that the Bolsheviks committed in the 20-30s, which caused such enormous damage to Russian culture, lies equally with the Orthodox Church itself. I don’t consider her the injured party, I consider her to be the party consciously and voluntarily (I emphasize, knowingly and voluntarily!) Who entered the political struggle, this struggle was a loser and suffered the corresponding damage, which is fair.
        What is happening in church building today seems to me a nightmare and horror. It is my deep conviction that the modern construction of churches on such a scale as it takes place now is a huge mistake in public policy. Any religion is a purely voluntary and personal matter, therefore churches should appear only where and when people really need them. And to decide whether a temple is needed in a particular place and which temple should be exactly those who consider themselves believers. And if they really need a church, then they will be able to organize themselves, unite efforts, create their own community in the form of a non-profit organization, "conciliarly" build this temple at their own expense and maintain it at their own expense, as it has always been in Russia from time immemorial centuries. You can even without a "non-profit organization" - just unite from the heart and build your own temple. This I can only welcome.
        The construction of huge, expensive temples for budgetary money is currently a crime in itself; I’m not talking about how much money is being stolen during these buildings.
        1. +8
          29 March 2020 18: 50
          Personally, I believe that the blame for such a terrible defeat of the church economy that the Bolsheviks committed in the 20-30s, which caused such enormous damage to Russian culture, lies equally with the Orthodox Church itself.

          I have the honor, Michael! And stand on your side. soldier
          I do not want to offend anyone, neither the respected administration of the site, nor the feelings of believers ....
          So that's it. As we can imagine, Perov's painting "Tea Party in Mytishchi" was not written from scratch. And this is with the king! hi

          I personally saw characters of a similar complexion (I'm talking about a churchman) near the St. Yuryev Monastery in Veliky Novgorod in October last year (my bride can confirm, Anton knows us). Walked two carcasses on the highway. From too much food ... No.
          We analyze the following situations:
          When a dispute arose about St. Isaac's Cathedral, its director, People's Artist Nikolai Burov, resigned. Apparently, he could not stand it ... This man with his loud voice every year broadcasts at the Piskarevsky cemetery during the laying of wreaths about the blockade. soldier
          The second one. The church clung to Isaac for a reason. This is awesome feeding trough! Just a Klondike, sorry for the expression! A bunch of tourists .... who will go the money? wink
          And the last thing. When I was studying at the university, the abbot of the Trinity-Sergius Hermitage, the monastery in Strelna, Father Nikolai, came to our informal hour. He told us about "love for one's neighbor" .....
          So that's it. The book "Abode of the Northern Capital" was written. She lies in my lap.
          What was in this monastery until the 90s? Police school. From our hull behind the fence.
          So, we read.
          Pages, 209-210. Father Nicholas writes about the revival of the monastery. "We understood that if there was no service and prayer, we would not have the means to revive the monastery, and there was nowhere to wait for them. "
          Just a business! In fact - parasites ..
          It further describes how, along with the revival of shrines, the church "wrestled" the buildings of the monastery from the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The police school was evicted. For twenty or thirty parasites. Moreover, they were evicted to the base of a former military school, where there were not only window frames, but also the boxes themselves ..... Eight hundred people! Think ...
          Along the way, in his opus, Father Nikolai pours mud on the then head of the school. I AM Served after graduation under the direction of this person. It was a wonderful leader. soldier
          Think for yourself. Twenty parasites against hundreds of people. What right this individual has to talk about "love for one's neighbor" ?? angry

          I have the honor. Nikolay. soldier
          1. +6
            29 March 2020 19: 23
            My respect, Nikolai.
            I agree with what was said, but it is not even a matter of specific personalities - those or other clergymen. It's about the very essence of any religion. In prehistoric times, shamans began to receive bribes for their "work" and so it was. Religion (any religion, including paganism) is a business that exploits human fear of the unknown. In this niche, there are various enterprises - large and small, successful and not so, old-timers with thousands of years of experience and freshly launched projects, the duration of which will not exceed several years. Personally, I do not see any fundamental difference between them.
            Like any business, having reached a certain level, religion gets the opportunity to influence politics, and in some places it becomes a leading political force.
            The presence of sincere and disinterested believers in a particular denomination, including devotees and preachers, also does not play a decisive role - they all somehow serve the same purpose - to expand the "client base" and, accordingly, to redistribute financial flows, naturally, in favor of that or another religion.
            The Orthodox Church one hundred years ago decided to play politics, lost and - vae victis - got what is supposed to be in the loser. To lovers of an alternative story, I mean a good alternative story (Anton, Artyom, my respect hi smile ) we can offer to consider such a plot - in 1918, the Orthodox Church voluntarily transfers all its material assets to the Soviet government, actively supports the Bolsheviks and is no less active in building the Soviet state. What would we have after such a fork in history?
            1. +6
              29 March 2020 19: 47
              The presence of sincere and disinterested believers in a particular denomination, including devotees and preachers, also does not play a decisive role - they all somehow serve the same purpose - to expand the "client base" and, accordingly, to redistribute financial flows, naturally, in favor of that or another religion.

              I wrote below about this business.
              one can propose to consider such a plot - in 1918 the Orthodox Church voluntarily transfers all of its material assets to Soviet power, actively supports the Bolsheviks and is no less actively involved in the construction of the Soviet state. What would we have after such a fork in history?

              I can definitely pray for one person - Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky. Greatest man was, bright memory to him. That's exactly who the saints needed to be glorified! soldier
              1. +4
                31 March 2020 10: 54
                I can definitely pray for one person - Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky. The greatest man was, blessed with his memory. That's exactly who the saints needed to be glorified!

                so he was glorified and canonized in 1995
                1. +3
                  31 March 2020 12: 02
                  so he was glorified and canonized in 1995

                  Sorry, I didn’t know this. The fact that he really was a man of genius, a true patriot (without pathos!), And just that - an example for ministers of the church - is true. Yes survive so much .. and do so much ... not everyone can!
        2. +1
          30 March 2020 00: 24
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          The Bolsheviks who came to power in 1917 began to carry out total nationalization and secularization of property, as a result of which all owners — landowners, manufacturers, bankers — suffered, but the Orthodox Church suffered particularly large losses, simply because it had something to take away
          The property of the Russian Orthodox Church was and remains not private, but socialized property; monasteries were the first collective farms, and church property was always a national treasure, like exhibitions, libraries, lectures in the USSR. Socialized property is a sprout of communism, but possessed militant atheists do not care about communism, and they wanted to trample its sprouts.
          1. +3
            30 March 2020 10: 08
            Quote: sniperino
            The property of the Russian Orthodox Church was and remains not private, but socialized property

            Not to a greater extent than property, for example, Gazprom. Do you feel like you own it?
            Quote: sniperino
            monasteries were the first collective farms

            Some were even communes, but, unfortunately, they managed to own land and peasants, and much more than that, including gold, jewelry and, of course, money.
            Quote: sniperino
            church property has always been a national treasure

            Are you laughing I didn’t even hear that at least this was proclaimed, not that it was in reality. This is already some kind of distortion of reality in your head. In order for the monastery to provide its land to peasants for work free of charge, and not for predatory rents - this may have happened once or twice, but it did not influence the overall picture of church business completely.
            Quote: sniperino
            militant atheists don't care about communism

            Your "communism" is like a happy and just society of ancient Greek philosophers, where every citizen is personally free, has the right to vote in elections and is wealthy - he has at least three slaves.
            Once again I will repeat the main points that you did not understand.
            1. Any religion is a business, whose ultimate goal is profit. The Orthodox Church is the clearest example of this.
            2. For more than a thousand-year period, the Orthodox Church has collected and accumulated huge funds, including real estate with land.
            3. An attempt by the Bolsheviks to seize this property from church ownership and convert it into state property ran into fierce resistance from the Church, making it a political opponent of the Soviet regime.
            4. The Church lost the political struggle and, accordingly, received all the "charms" that a loser in a political struggle usually has - deprivation of most property rights, repression, and so on.
            Everything is fair, legal and logical.
            Or do you think that the Bolsheviks, having seized power and waged a terrible and brutal struggle for it with the exertion of all forces, should have listened calmly and graciously accepted how solid and wealthy bearded men curse them from all porches and pulpits and call on the people to speak out against them?
            1. 0
              April 14 2020 12: 56
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Any religion is a commercial enterprise whose ultimate goal is profit
              Religion is older than commerce and profit. If some merchants, whether they wear a cassock, uniform or civilian clothes, use the religious beliefs of others in order to make commercial profit, this is not a matter of religion, as they can do these tricks with any teaching, regardless of its truth and purpose.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              This is already some kind of distortion of reality in your head. In order for the monastery to provide its land for work to peasants free of charge, and not for predatory rent
              In the 15th century, peasants were widely forced to work by non-economic (= predatory) methods, and the monastic lands were leased by them voluntarily. So there is no need to frighten people with "robber monks". Following your logic, it can be argued that in the USSR there was no national treasure at all, because no one and nowhere would provide you with land, its subsoil, works of art, etc. "to work ... free of charge." This "work for free" was actually called "illegal business", even if you did not use anything for free. Indeed, distortion.
      7. 0
        30 March 2020 14: 58
        Quote: bober1982

        A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
        But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

        For the most part, the church and priests supported the white movement and were against the Soviet regime for this and were persecuted until the Great Patriotic War.
        1. +3
          30 March 2020 16: 08
          Quote: Hiking
          For the most part, the church and priests supported the white movement and were against the Soviet regime for this and were persecuted until the Great Patriotic War.

          The Church, did not support the White movement, which was virtually godless, the new government - all the more, I will not quote the Anathema of Patriarch Tikhon, where it is very clearly stated, including who destroyed the temples and why.
          Quote: Hiking
          and were persecuted before World War II

          By the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, only 3-4 hierarchs of the Russian Church remained, what kind of support for the White movement can we talk about?
          There were no persecutions - there was a massive rage towards the Church, the Great Patriotic War sobered up, including Stalin.
    2. +9
      29 March 2020 07: 59
      Quote: Bastinda
      Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.
      But to build now, in their place, "remakes" is, in my opinion, sheer stupidity

      That removed from the language, I completely agree.
      1. +7
        29 March 2020 19: 16
        That removed from the language, I completely agree.

        instead of tens of thousands of closed schools and hospitals, twice as many churches were built ... let priests and treat for the virus and other things! am
        Hmm .. here on central channels honestly there is a collection of money via SMS for children for the operation ... My friends .. You did not wonder ... what and does the richest church deduct anything? I'm not sure for some reason ... request
        Guys! The church is the most correct and profitable business forever and ever! fellow Whoever to praise - Astarte, Osiris, Zeus, Christ or Mohammed, and even the Macaroni Monster or the "messiah of Corres" - it will be most profitable business. You pay money themselves for believing. Do not give them a month! Look at the reaction ... wink good promise more than a guarantor in the last speech! good
        I myself am a believer. But deeply against those "people" (in quotation marks) that took on the role of "intermediaries" between us and God. hi I have the honor!
        1. +3
          29 March 2020 19: 47
          Quote: Pane Kohanku
          The church is the most correct and profitable business forever and ever!

          Holy words, Nikolai! smile drinks
          1. +6
            29 March 2020 19: 55
            Holy words, Nikolai!

            I tried, Michael, and your words are dear drinks the enchanted wanderer Mikado died. crying There was an evil bon vivan to Pana Kohanku! angry
            My bride and I were in September in Sergievka - the former estate of Maria Nikolaevna and the Duke of Leuchtenberg - the son of Eugene Bogarne. There, between Sergievka and Own dacha, a church was built - a remake, of course. We went in ... saw the priest .. and completely disbelieved .. negative Too business. With a certain tone of voice, and even with laying on the head. Just a business! request
            "Captain Mikhailov" becomes a Voltairian, Mikhail ... request
            1. +5
              29 March 2020 20: 39
              Quote: Pane Kohanku
              "Captain Mikhailov" becomes a Voltairian,

              "Hell is better company." smile
              Personally, of all the high-ranking officials of the church, I am especially impressed by the uncle who lived in the XII century. named Pierre Abelard. To speak at that time about such things as he spoke of - free will, “to know in order to believe, and not to believe in order to know,” retribution by intention, not by deed, the absence of dogmas, doubts about the infallibility of the church fathers, etc. P. At the same time, he also studied secular literature, music, loved and was loved by a woman ...
              And Voltaire is a bully and an outrage. smile
              1. +4
                29 March 2020 20: 47
                "to know in order to believe, and not to believe in order to know", retribution by intention, not by deed, lack of dogma, doubt about the infallibility of the church fathers, etc. At the same time, he also studied secular literature, music, loved and was loved by a woman ...

                I think Cardinal Richelieu was something similar - and the smartest statesman! That is, the mind and common sense should be above all! Yes, and that same patriotism!
    3. -3
      30 March 2020 08: 44
      99% of these temples were nafig nobody needed.
  5. +5
    29 March 2020 07: 32
    so big, most likely at the state expense.
  6. +6
    29 March 2020 07: 34
    At least there will be a place for the poor. Under the golden dumplings.
    1. +12
      29 March 2020 09: 30
      Mordvin 3 (Vladimir)
      At least there will be a place for the poor. Under the golden dumplings.

      When the service ends, Ivan Ivanovich will not tolerate in any way, so as not to go around all the poor. Perhaps he would not want to do such a boring thing if natural kindness did not prompt him to do so.
      - Great, wretched! - he usually said, having found the most mutilated woman, in a tattered dress sewn from patches. - Where are you from, poor?
      - I, darling, came from a farm: the third day, when I didn’t drink, didn’t eat, my own children kicked me out.
      - Poor little head, why did you come here?
      - And so, panochka, to ask alms if anyone would give me anything for bread.
      - Um! Well, do you really want bread? - Ivan Ivanovich usually asked.
      - How not to want! hungry like a dog.
      - Um! - answered usually Ivan Ivanovich. “So, maybe you want some meat?”
      - Yes, everything that your mercy will give, I will be happy with everyone.
      - Um! Is meat better than bread?
      - Where is the hungry to disassemble. Everything you grant is all good.
      In this case, the old woman usually held out her hand.
      “Well, go with God,” said Ivan Ivanovich.
      - What are you worth? because I do not beat you! - and, turning with such questions to another, to the third, he finally returns home or comes in to drink a glass of vodka to his neighbor Ivan Nikiforovich, or to the judge, or to the mayor.
  7. +9
    29 March 2020 07: 37
    "Everything is back to normal." Once again, the bourgeois and bourgeois power, who have enriched themselves at the expense of the people, are enriching the priests, they piled tens of thousands of churches, temples, mosques, synagogues, and they all do not care about the people. For 30 years after the destruction of the USSR, they destroyed tens of thousands of schools and hospitals for the people.
  8. +17
    29 March 2020 07: 41
    Hooray! Give more temples !! Instead of kindergartens, schools, technical schools, institutes ..
    So win! She stood on and will stand .. Russia ?!
    The restoration of the destroyed, of course, pleases. Only recovery is one-sided.
    Destroyed production, education and science are in no hurry to restore. But the temples - they put it right on the stream ..
    And the author is an ardent anti-Soviet!
    1. +10
      29 March 2020 10: 07
      You are here recently, therefore, you do not know that the author is a former teacher of Marxism-Leninism. If he does not write about ancient history or about the armor of knights, then in his notes he tells about his difficult childhood and his terrible life in the USSR.
      1. +3
        29 March 2020 11: 57
        Quote: Aviator_
        author - former teacher of Marxism-Leninism

        Seriously? No jokes, no banter? Well, that explains a lot ...
        1. +4
          29 March 2020 12: 56
          Very seriously. Take a look at his articles on VO, how he did his dissertation in Samara, how he later mowed down from the army, having left to teach history in the village, well, etc. He wrote a lot about his difficult Soviet past.
          1. +4
            29 March 2020 18: 29
            Quote: Aviator_
            Sergei

            Sergei, what I don’t like is the distortion of the facts of my biography, not after, but before ... immediately after graduation, and not after graduate school. Well, it’s not so ... That a person might think that after graduate school someone went to the village - fi, what nonsense. And I did not teach any Marxism-Leninism. Otherwise, my item was called. Here it is necessary for sure. You write about a person, not about a car .. For inaccurate advertising in Russia, we are punished in court!
        2. +3
          29 March 2020 18: 32
          Quote: CT-55_11-9009
          Well, that explains a lot ...

          And what does this explain, dear Semyon? Well, am I very interested to learn from you?
  9. +6
    29 March 2020 07: 42
    Religion in the Republic of Ingushetia was the main instrument for controlling the masses, justifying slavery and serfdom, proclaiming the assassin-kings and the empress-sh ... x governors of God. But this is not religion to blame! Religions are not bad. This is to blame for the parasitic structure, which has arrogated to itself to speak on behalf of God. To the last, she fiercely opposed the abolition of serfdom and the right to education by peasants. This structure, along with the despotic tsarist government, is to blame for the myriad crimes against the Russian people, who became hostage in the hands of a criminal community, consisting of tsars, boyars and priests.
    And now, more than 100 years have passed since the liberation from this tyranny, the beginning of universal reformation, the widespread construction of schools, hospitals, etc. What do we see today? Schools and hospitals are closing down everywhere, villages are massively dying. But almost on every street they build churches. And this is in the 21st century!
    1. +5
      29 March 2020 14: 50
      Quote: kjhg
      But this is not religion to blame! Religions are not bad. This is to blame for the parasitic structure, which has arrogated to itself to speak on behalf of God.

      You confuse Faith and religion. Faith, she is always about the soul, and religion, she is always about money. hi
      1. +2
        29 March 2020 14: 52
        Quote: HanTengri
        Faith, she is always about the soul, and religion, she is always about money.

        Exactly hi
        1. +5
          29 March 2020 19: 39
          Exactly

          I will subscribe to you both! hi
  10. +13
    29 March 2020 07: 48
    What did the author want to say with this article? Arouse sympathy for the church? Once again condemn the Soviet regime? But looking at today's church and its ministers sometimes ask yourself a question ... are the Bolsheviks really wrong ....
  11. -12
    29 March 2020 07: 58
    I got the impression that the opponents of the temple are former members of the union of atheists Yaroslav Gubelman, got out of the coffins and spread cemetery incense here. Or puberty slag, having read all sorts of rubbish.
    hi
  12. +15
    29 March 2020 07: 59
    One local alcoholic called out for three quarters of vodka (9 liters, not bad, however!). When the bell fell, it touched the ceiling, and there was such a loud pop that many people even got their ears closed. A drunkard fell unconscious, he was shell-shocked. And three days later he died!

    When they blew up - it is not known. But how much vodka the author established with historical accuracy.
    Unfortunately, the author did not complete his historical investigation. In connection with the death of a local alcoholic
    three quarters of vodka (9 liters,
    remained unowned. But in Russia, ownerless vodka does not exist. So someone drank it. But who is the most important Penza secret of those years. As a reader of VO, I hope that Mr. Shpakovsky will finish his investigation and we will find out this terrible secret. request
    1. -9
      29 March 2020 08: 15
      Quote: Amateur
      Unfortunately, the author did not complete his historical investigation. In connection with the death of a local alcoholic

      The fate of those who smashed the Church is unenviable, people at that time were, of course, corrupted, but they were afraid to "raise their hands" at churches, the Russian people still had fear and conscience.
  13. +2
    29 March 2020 08: 06
    I think all journalists were ashamed, and therefore did not write. Joyfully - did not want to, with condemnation - were afraid
    1. -1
      29 March 2020 11: 48
      Quote: old_pferd
      I think all journalists were ashamed, and therefore did not write. Joyfully - did not want tocondemned - were afraid

      Why so?
      There was such a famous owl. journalist, so-called "Mikhail Koltsov" (in nature, Moisei Haimovich Fridlyand) is the pillar of Bolshevik journalism, the relaxer of "Pravda", he wrote already avidly and crying with emotion from the destruction of churches.

      True, the friends did not appreciate it: they shot him, together with his wife (see decisions of the USSR Armed Forces) in 1940 Yes
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 11: 57
        I was referring to local journalists.
        1. -3
          29 March 2020 12: 26
          Quote: old_pferd
          I was referring to local journalists.

          So he is a local, a Muscovite, -giggled joyfully on the ruins of Moscow churches
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 14: 39
            Like talking about Penza and its temple. And the absence of mentions in the local newspaper "Rabochaya Penza".
      2. +1
        29 March 2020 18: 11
        And his brother, cartoonist Boris Efimov, became a laureate of the Stalin Prize, died several years ago at the age of 107 years.
        1. +1
          30 March 2020 04: 25
          Therefore, he lived to 107 years, because he did not follow in the footsteps of his brother ...
  14. +17
    29 March 2020 08: 19
    I’m baptized towards the church like that .. There is, well, let it be, no, well, and don’t .. But for the whole time of the thieves' reign, I have never heard from the chapters. priest, words of reproach to thieves .. And I did not hear words of support from the people !! But the churches are being built at an accelerated pace and everything is at our expense.
    1. +7
      29 March 2020 08: 41
      I agree with your opinion! I stand by. Although no one bothers them to express their authoritative opinion / for believers / about this.
      1. +1
        30 March 2020 05: 29
        Why are you carrying all this nonsense with a smart look? One of the ten commandments of Christianity is called - do not steal. Any theft, regardless of the amount of stolen and social status of a thief by the church is condemned. Or do you, in your naivety, think that the church has the authority to conduct investigations and assume the functions of the prosecutor's office, after which the priests should announce lists of thieves from the pulpit? If you go to church and don’t hear how priests condemn human vices, then maybe you didn’t attend church, but the sect of the god Kuzi?
  15. +4
    29 March 2020 08: 19
    The right thing to do. To demolish is not to build. You didn’t build, and you don’t have to demolish. In this regard, I like the practice in Moscow - all the monuments to Ilyich are being restored. It remains to return the "Iron Felix" to its place.
    1. +3
      29 March 2020 08: 39
      Good morning! Moscow. Monuments to V.I. Lenin. Stand in their place-73, dismantled-7, in the rooms / metro, foyer, etc./- 10. Many of course need restoration.
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 10: 40
        There are hundreds, if not thousands, of monuments in Moscow. All are restored in order. If you have specific suggestions - write to the Department of Cultural Heritage of Moscow. Separately, the situation with monuments in private territories - factories, embassies, etc. The city does not repair them.
    2. +3
      29 March 2020 20: 04
      Quote: ButchCassidy
      It remains to return the "Iron Felix" to its place.

      And his place is near n, i.e., today's.

      At this place was a beautiful Moscow Fountain, which was demolished in the 1930s.

      Avot ngo and must be restored. Yes
  16. Fat
    +4
    29 March 2020 08: 22
    Many cities of Russia have their own blown up churches ... Some of them are being restored and many of them are donated by caring citizens.
    Some churches, temples are being rebuilt, others are being restored from ruins.
    As for "opium for the people," there is no party committee or trade union committee now. People with their misfortune go to church for consolation. Atheists go to other "psychologists", to psychologists.
    All this is better than shopping for inexpensive relaxation ...
    1. +3
      29 March 2020 13: 30
      Quote: Thick
      Many cities of Russia have their own blown up churches ...

      And we have a young city, founded in the twenties. There were no church churches, and no one was worried. But now there are, but no movie theaters.
      1. Fat
        +1
        29 March 2020 14: 37
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        And we have a young city, founded in the twenties. There were no church churches, and no one was worried. But now there are, but no movie theaters.

        There are no shopping centers in your city?
        I was sure that five-star cinema chains were everywhere.
        Many, even typical Soviet cinemas were closed due to stringent fire safety requirements,
        but not at all because nobody needs them. What happens when I ignore these requirements I will not remind you, it’s still bitter.
        1. +1
          29 March 2020 14: 55
          Quote: Thick
          I was sure that five-star cinema chains were everywhere.

          Not a single cinema was left. There were four. In place of the first - a church, second or third - a shopping center, the fourth was closed after the "Winter Cherry". By the way, it was being rebuilt, but everything was fine with security in the USSR. Open the exit and let your freeloader friends in.
  17. +7
    29 March 2020 08: 31
    The main thing in religion is not premises / buildings, but PEOPLE. And none of the religious fanatics is able to prove what great benefit the richest Church brought to the poor people in the Russian Empire, and what great benefit the wealthy Church, including Gundyaev, brought to the Russian people after the imposition of religion on Russia and its people, starting with anti-Soviet Perestroika.
    1. +3
      29 March 2020 08: 57
      Good morning, Irina! Let’s decide, what kind of benefit do you mean? Spiritual? Material? Here, after all, everything is not so simple, if people go to the temple, it means that they, people, need it. Correct? This is about the spiritual. About the material. It’s not a secret that the church is engaged in charity. How much? I don’t know. I’ll say right away that I’m an atheist, I’ve been educated like that! Attitude towards the church? It’s more neutral, but the top of the church, not only Orthodox, has an unhealthy interest in material values, of course annoying.
      1. +8
        29 March 2020 09: 03
        Not an argument, people go to brothels because they need it.
        And the argument is that the colossal money of the people was spent on priests and the construction of religious buildings in both the Republic of Ingushetia and post-Soviet Russia. And no one is able to prove how much benefit they have brought to the country and people.
        The argument is that the atheistic USSR was much kinder, fairer, more honest, moral, more moral, more humane than religious RI and post-Soviet Russia.
        1. +2
          29 March 2020 09: 08
          Quote: tatra
          Not an argument, people go to brothels because they need it.

          Are you so sure this is not an argument?
          Quote: tatra
          The argument is that the atheistic USSR was much kinder, fairer, more honest, moral, more moral, more humane than religious RI and post-Soviet Russia.

          Possibly. But why. WHY? In1991, no one stood up to defend him, did you think about that?
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 09: 15
            In the cowardly manner of the enemies of the Soviet regime, it is NOT necessary to blame responsibility for what some people did on other people. Just as the Bolsheviks and their supporters captured the country in October 1917, so did their enemies in 1985-1991. Only the Bolshevik Communists and their supporters have always been proud and proud of the October Revolution, and their enemies cowardly blame them for their counter-revolution of 1985-1991.
            And your comment is also NOT an argument to justify the planting of religion.
            1. +4
              29 March 2020 09: 21
              Quote: tatra
              In the cowardly manner of the enemies of the Soviet regime, it is NOT necessary to blame responsibility for what some people did on other people.

              Are you normal, without slogans, you can argue and argue? Some * enemies of the Soviet power * in your comments.
              1. -1
                29 March 2020 09: 29
                Ha, don’t get out of the cowardly manner of the enemies of the Soviet power — when you have no arguments in the discussion. All the best, don’t be ill.
                1. +2
                  29 March 2020 09: 34
                  Quote: * Ivan Vasilievich, sometimes it seems to me that you are raving. *
                2. +3
                  29 March 2020 09: 40
                  Do not minus your * notes * purely out of politeness.
              2. +2
                29 March 2020 10: 15
                And what, there were no enemies, they were invented by Yezhov and Beria?
                1. +5
                  29 March 2020 10: 52
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  And what, there were no enemies, they were invented by Yezhov and Beria?

                  Question to question: What kind of power is it if it has no enemies? Only we seem to be trying to talk about the church, or rather, about the blown up church and its restoration.
            2. +2
              29 March 2020 09: 24
              Quote: tatra
              And your comment is also NOT an argument to justify the planting of religion.

              Yes, why did you get the fact that I JUSTIFY THE INSTITUTION OF RELIGION ???? The world consists not only of black and white. In your case, of red and black!
            3. +6
              29 March 2020 18: 26
              Everything is much worse. When the October Revolution took place, people who disagreed with it were able to organize and spent four years fighting.
              And in 1991, not a single scum in defense of the Soviet regime did not come out. On the contrary, the middle managers of the CPSU and the Komsomol in front of their screech rushed to row the people's good for themselves, and almost 20 million party members stood and watched.
              so everything was done without "enemies". We did it ourselves.
              1. +3
                29 March 2020 20: 13
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                Everything is much worse. When the October Revolution took place, people who disagreed with it were able to organize and spent four years fighting.
                And in 1991 not a single bastard in defense of the Soviet government didn't speak. On the contrary, the middle managers of the CPSU and the Komsomol in front of their screech rushed to row the people's good for themselves, and almost 20 million party members stood and watched.

                Absolutely true!

                Moreover, in 91m none of even her guardians present here defended.

                it says a lot ....
            4. +6
              29 March 2020 19: 09
              Quote: tatra
              How the Bolsheviks and their supporters captured the country in October 1917,so their enemies in 1985-1991 captured the country.

              Everything is correct. It remains only to find out how the "enemies of the communists" (c), in marketable quantities, made their way into the leadership of "Our Mind, Honor and Conscience ..."? What was wrong with what?
          2. +2
            29 March 2020 09: 34
            Quote: Phil77
            Possibly. But why. WHY? In1991, no one stood up to defend him, did you think about that?

            ===
            coups they are coups in africa, then the Bolsheviks, in the 90s other driving forces.
            but to defend something, not many rushed to defend power in Ukraine
            1. +6
              29 March 2020 09: 39
              Quote: Victorio
              coups they are coups in Africa, then the Bolsheviks, in the 90s other driving forces

              It’s difficult to say whether there was a banal coup. Preparation took too long, remember that time? Empty shelves, coupons for everything / almost /, meetings of the Supreme Council and their broadcast to the whole country. Too many factors came together at the right time and place. Yes, and oil prices yet!
              1. +3
                29 March 2020 09: 45
                Quote: Phil77
                It is difficult to say whether there was a banal coup.

                ===
                there was a coup / turn / turn, there is no special difference. but there are always those who need it.
          3. +5
            29 March 2020 10: 14
            The situation of 1991 repeated the situation of 1917, when no one spoke out for snickering Nicholas II. Both Gorbachev and the last Romanov really compromised themselves.
          4. +5
            29 March 2020 14: 06
            Quote: Phil77
            Quote: tatra
            Not an argument, people go to brothels because they need it.

            Are you so sure this is not an argument?
            Quote: tatra
            The argument is that the atheistic USSR was much kinder, fairer, more honest, moral, more moral, more humane than religious RI and post-Soviet Russia.

            Possibly. But why. WHY? In1991, no one stood up to defend him, did you think about that?

            The answer is simple and complex at the same time: all life is a struggle. The struggle of opposites.
            With the coming of the Bolsheviks to power, the struggle did not stop - it only intensified.
            Even Joseph Vissarionovich wrote that the class struggle as the construction of a socialist state will only increase. And what did we see? The arrival of an uneducated schemer, the creation of fakes, the Twentieth Congress. First push? No. Just one of those that never stopped. The problem with him was that he could not be repaid. Well, let's go further - restructuring. Alexander Yakovlev is engaged in falsification of history, working on the main dogmas of perestroika and on how to poison people with events that will happen later.
            In fact - another push. Very powerful. Taking into account the previous ones (they were in Brezhnev’s times, but in order to consider everything, you need not to write comments, but monographs), he had devastating consequences. The result - the collapse of the USSR. And so in everything - the struggle of opposites. The collapse of the USSR-cause and effect at the same time.

            Now, let's put everything together in a single picture and answer the question, why didn’t they come out to defend? The answer will be matched by all reasoning - dual. On the one hand, the reason for this is a series of blows inflicted on the statehood of the USSR, on the other hand, a change in the attitude of people towards the USSR itself as a result of the blows inflicted and the lack of force fully formed and ready to defend the USSR.
      2. +7
        29 March 2020 09: 13
        Dear "Caliber", there is no such material as "nitrotitanium", especially in the form of sheets.
        There is a material titanium nitride, which is used as a coating for metal cutting tools, dentures and "gilding" of domes, for domes it is usually applied to stainless steel.
        1. +1
          29 March 2020 09: 15
          Sorry, but I'm not * Caliber *. Mistake came out!
        2. +2
          29 March 2020 09: 20
          Quote: Ua3qhp
          Dear "Caliber", there is no such material as "nitrotitanium", especially in the form of sheets.
          There is a material titanium nitride, which is used as a coating for metal cutting tools, dentures and "gilding" of domes, for domes it is usually applied to stainless steel.

          What was written in the press release of the diocese, I wrote. I'm not a dental technician ...
          1. 0
            29 March 2020 09: 30
            Good morning! Well, Vyacheslav Olegovich, you wrote this article !!!! If the ultra-commies are here with their * enemies of the Soviet regime *, then you can imagine what will begin in the afternoon?!?!?
          2. +4
            29 March 2020 10: 18
            And in "Vika" to look - was it weak?
            1. +2
              29 March 2020 14: 31
              What for? When I have in my hands an official document of the diocese. Materials from which are published on the site of the region. I don’t have time to climb every wiki.
          3. +5
            29 March 2020 11: 39
            Quote: kalibr
            What was written in the press release of the diocese,

            A vivid example of the propaganda of illiteracy! laughing
      3. +2
        29 March 2020 09: 14
        Tobacco scandal - events related to duty-free import of excisable goods into Russia by structures close to the Russian Orthodox Church under the auspices of the Nika Charitable Foundation and the Russian Orthodox Church Humanitarian Aid Headquarters in 1996. (Wiki)

        The Russian Orthodox Church does not deny the fact of transactions on the import of tobacco and alcohol products, but does not recognize the personal interest in them of the future patriarch. Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin [9] and religious scholar Roman Silantyev [10] filed lawsuits (and won trials) for libel against journalist Sergei Bychkov on other issues, but this was not done personally by Metropolitan Kirill regarding media materials about the “tobacco metropolitan”, nor other hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church. (Wiki)
        1. +2
          29 March 2020 09: 18
          You probably thought that I protect church hierarchs?
      4. +6
        29 March 2020 10: 41
        I agree with the latter. But to see the Church as a gathering of saints is foolish. There are the same people there, only in robes, if we are talking about the priesthood.
        1. +2
          29 March 2020 10: 57
          Even a hint in my koment that there was no assembly of saints! hi
          1. 0
            29 March 2020 14: 55
            Many perceive this
  18. I
    -1
    29 March 2020 09: 14
    Judging by most of the comments, I have nothing more to say to the author, besides this:

    “Do not give sanctuary to the dogs and do not throw your pearls before the pigs, lest they trample it underfoot with their feet and, turning, do not tear you to pieces” (Matthew 7: 6).
  19. +10
    29 March 2020 09: 15
    Within 1 km of this building, there are 3 more churches and a monastery and only one hospital
    Draw your own conclusions ....
    1. -4
      29 March 2020 10: 42
      And what is the conclusion? This is a historical center, do you think hospitals should be packed there?
      1. +4
        29 March 2020 11: 43
        Quote: ButchCassidy
        This is a historical center, do you think hospitals should be packed there?

        Why are they necessarily "stuffed"? But amid the rampant closure of existing hospitals, the construction of many churches is truly puzzling.
        Watch an interesting video about the extinction of the native Russian regions of Russia.
      2. +1
        29 March 2020 14: 59
        I mean, not all believers in our country, but the absolute majority use medical and educational institutions

        And in the design we have spelled out something about a secular state.
    2. Fat
      -1
      29 March 2020 16: 22
      Quote: FoxNova
      Within 1 km of this building, there are 3 more churches and a monastery and only one hospital
      Draw your own conclusions ....

      The conclusion is that you completely ignore private (paid) medical facilities. District city hospital, yes, as a rule, one per district and usually takes a whole quarter. It is insurance. And around there is a huge amount of all kinds of dentistry and diagnostic centers ... Directly to the envy of Chernigans and the white clergy.
      Here is a service to visit, to listen to a sermon or just to come in - always free.
  20. +3
    29 March 2020 09: 23
    Quote: bober1982
    This is how Archpriest Ornatsky was shot (along with his sons)
    Red Army platoon - refused and fled, the Chinese were called, these also refused.
    Finished young non-Russian commissars.

    What a horror! Documents will be? At the same time, you can fix the Wiki article ...
    "Archpriest Philosopher Ornatsky and his sons were shot during the Red Terror, presumably, circa October 30, 1918. Along the way, he read aloud the departures over the condemned. According to one data, the shooting occurred in Kronstadt, according to others - not far from the Gulf of Finland between Ligovo and Oranienbaum. The bodies of the executed apparently were dumped into the bay. "
  21. +1
    29 March 2020 09: 24
    Quote: Phil77
    Sorry, but I'm not * Caliber *. Mistake came out!

    Phil77 - I'm sorry. Not in your address was a comment.
    1. +1
      29 March 2020 09: 32
      It happens, a matter of everyday life! Good luck to you! hi
  22. +5
    29 March 2020 09: 25
    Quote: kalibr
    What was written in the press release of the diocese, I wrote. I'm not a dental technician ...

    According to your articles, I represented you as a technically competent person, critical of the sources.
    1. +2
      29 March 2020 14: 33
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      critical to the sources.

      Looking to which ... In this case, such nonsense of the weather does not.
  23. +12
    29 March 2020 09: 27
    The paradox of the current government: there are not enough hospitals, kindergartens, but for some reason they are building churches for as many as a day ..
    1. +9
      29 March 2020 09: 56
      But this is called the priorities of those who own the country. Some destroyed churches, but they built factories, factories, research institutes, sanatoriums, rest houses, pioneer camps, schools, hospitals for the people, while others destroy it all, and crowded tens of thousands of churches and temples.
      1. +3
        29 March 2020 10: 15
        Quote: tatra
        But this is called the priorities of those who own the country

        ====
        the priority of any power is the power itself, and the ways to hold it are different
    2. 0
      29 March 2020 10: 07
      Quote: Million
      The paradox of the current government: there are not enough hospitals, kindergartens, but for some reason they are building churches for as many as a day ..

      ====
      unfortunately the church itself is not alien to human passions
    3. Fat
      -1
      29 March 2020 16: 35
      Quote: Million
      The paradox of the current government: there are not enough hospitals, kindergartens, but for some reason they are building churches for as many as a day ..

      The Church has nothing to do with secular power, consider this in your arguments and the "paradox" will cease to be.
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 17: 43
        Naive .. I did not have it during the USSR.
        1. Fat
          +2
          29 March 2020 18: 16
          Quote: Million
          Naive .. I did not have it during the USSR.

          Yes. Naive ... Rather, a romantic. The state is separate from the church, but not from culture and art.)))
          Listen!
          Listen to this!
          After all, if the stars light up -
          So - does anyone need this?
          So - someone wants them to be?
          So - someone calls these spitters a pearl?
          And, tearing up
          in the snowstorms of midday dust,
          breaks into God,
          afraid that he was late,
          crying,
          kisses his sinewy hand,
          asks -
          so there must be a star! -
          swears -
          will not bear this starless flour!
          And then
          walks alarming,
          but quiet outside.
          He says to someone:
          “Now, do you have anything?
          Not scary?
          Yes?!"
          Listen to this!
          After all, if the stars
          light up -
          So - does anyone need this?
          So - this is necessary,
          every evening
          over roofs
          at least one star caught fire ?!
          [1914] Mayakovsky V.V.
  24. +3
    29 March 2020 09: 58
    Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    On the subject of the discussion, I want to note the following: for some reason, none of those discussing, be it an agnostic, deeply religious, communist or monarchist, has doubts about the need for the restoration of Issakiy or the Savior on Blood. But when it came to restoring the destroyed monument of architecture (yes, that’s how I perceive this construction), the forum flashed with Shakespearean passions.
    1. 0
      29 March 2020 10: 21
      Come on, bring your "logic" to the point of absurdity. If this temple, about which in the article, must be restored, spend huge money of the people on its restoration, then all other temples and churches that existed in the Russian Empire must be restored, having spent colossal money of the people on their restoration. And let the people put up with "no money, but you hold on."
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 10: 31
        bring
        Not in your case. For I consider such a discussion to be fruitless initially, like any other attempt to engage in dialogue with a supporter of one idea. Fanaticism and logic are incompatible concepts.
        1. +3
          29 March 2020 10: 38
          Well, again, a cowardly escape from the discussion. None of those who answered my comments in this topic could refute my words that none of those who plant religion can prove what benefit it brought to Russia and its people, they only made an unnecessary squabble.
          1. +2
            29 March 2020 10: 50
            When and if you are ready to disengage from your faith, stop labeling and use slogans, I’m ready to maintain a dialogue on any topic of mutual interest. Otherwise, I can only wish you all the best.
            1. -1
              29 March 2020 10: 52
              Well again. Are you able to prove that planting a religion has benefited Russia and its people? NO, so why are you stubbornly pestering me?
              1. +1
                29 March 2020 10: 55
                Sorry, I didn’t pester you. It was you who reacted nervously to my comment, which was not addressed to you at all.
              2. +3
                29 March 2020 18: 32
                Quote: tatra
                Are you able to prove that planting a religion has benefited Russia and its people?

                The question is not for me, but easily. All Slavic peoples who adopted Christianity at one time retained their identity in one way or another. Including Russians. Everyone else was assimilated.
          2. -3
            29 March 2020 12: 52
            Quote: tatra
            my words that none of those who plant religion can prove what benefit it brought to Russia and its people

            She created millennial Russia in the form in which we know it and RUSSIAN PEOPLE- The best people on Earth: sincere, kind, brave, intelligent, talented, conscientious and beautiful.

            In the Temples of Russia, the Russian people put their whole soul and beauty, talent and art.

            There is NOTHING in your stupid "girls with an oar" and countless kyrly-myrksly and ilichah.

            All this appeared in a passing and -SANUTS into oblivion forever, unlike Millennium Russia

            Substation And schools, hospitals, public houses, etc., were built and are being built all over the WORLD - and, interestingly, WITHOUT your "benefactors".

            And, most importantly, slash it on your forehead: NEVER in your History, Russia has SUFFERED SUCH casualties in people and territories, as AT YOU,

            It is simply a FACT!
            1. -2
              29 March 2020 18: 42
              In general, which was required to prove, a bunch of spiteful answers to me from "highly spiritual" adherents of religion, and not a single one proving the real benefits that the propagators of religion in Russia brought to the country and the people - both in the Russian Empire and in post-Soviet Russia. But this is the truth - that after the destruction of Soviet ideology and the impudent implantation of religion, a monstrous fall in morality and ethics occurred on the territory of the USSR, all true values ​​were devalued, and false ones were imposed ..
              1. 0
                29 March 2020 19: 58
                Quote: tatra
                In general, as was required to prove, a bunch of spiteful answers to me from "highly spiritual" adherents of religion, and not a single one proving real benefit , which was brought by religionists planting in Russia to the country and the people, like in the Russian Empire and in post-Soviet Russia.

                1. Didn’t get it again?

                Then it’s easier to say: think, WHY, FROM WHERE the Russian people took conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion, truth-seeking, justice, spirituality, i.e. that makes him RUSSIAN, and not mankurt?

                Bolsheviks, I remind you, in its thousand-year history - THERE WASN’T BEEN (except for the massive period recently)

                2. "The real benefit in your enemy of the spite of the communist understanding WHAT does it mean? To you in parrots or in meters?"
                Quote: tatra
                But this truth is that after the destruction of Soviet ideology and the impudent propagation of religion, a terrible fall in morality occurred in the territory of the USSR, all true values ​​were devalued, and false values ​​were imposed.

                a monstrous decline in morality, mind you ....Soviet, brought up by YOUR idols, peopleThat's why it happened.

                But the return of the Russian people to their millennial path-returns to people eternal human values.

                And let me remind you: it's tens of millions conscience people.... they charged water from the TV, sore spots were applied there (um, even, oh!) -for healing, they studied Kashpirovsky’s bells from enuresis, etc.
                1. -1
                  29 March 2020 20: 04
                  What nonsense you wrote. Both positive and negative human qualities are qualities of each person’s mentality. For example, answer, you acknowledge that the religious anti-Soviet people with all its qualities that it showed during its freedom from the Communists, with all its priorities, for which it was so eager to take over the USSR, and which it would so boast about after the capture of the USSR, defeat a united Europe led by Hitler, who attacked the country?
                  1. +1
                    29 March 2020 20: 32
                    Quote: tatra
                    What nonsense you wrote

                    Do fools judge stupidity? request
                    Quote: tatra
                    Both positive and negative human qualities are qualities of each person’s mentality.

                    1. And what are "negative", for example? Who determined it? lol

                    2. You, already obviously, are not able to answer the question: WHY, WHERE HERE did the Russian people take conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion, truth-seeking, justice, spirituality, ie that makes him RUSSIAN, and not mankurt .. request WHAT made him so?

                    These concepts, apparently, are simply unknown to you.

                    Namely, they determine the FACE of the Russian people. And it is determined LONG to YOU.
                    You scratched it, twisted it, broke it, but it didn’t work out.
                    Quote: tatra
                    You acknowledge that the religious anti-Soviet people with all its qualities, which he showed during his freedom from the Communists, with all his priorities, for which he was so eager to take over the USSR, and with which he boasts so much after the capture of the USSR, would NOT be able to defeat united Europe led by Hitler, who attacked the country?

                    1.Find out, finally: the Russian people saved themselves and their homeland in TENS WAR and throughout many HUNDREDS!

                    Spas as always, and in the Second World War.

                    The huge country captured by yours was not created by YOU, but before you.
                    You stupidly prlli her.

                    2. Without YOU, WWII would simply DID NOT HAVE, and the 45th year would have happened already in 1918
                    1. 0
                      29 March 2020 21: 03
                      Absolutely meaningless verbiage, and in the end, in accordance with the mentality and negative qualities of the enemies of the Communists, is the justification of Hitler and the Nazis who attacked the USSR and killed 27 million Soviet people. You, the religious enemies of the Bolshevik Communists, with your human qualities, condone the invaders of Russia as well, and praise their collaborators from among the Russian people.
                      1. +2
                        30 March 2020 08: 23
                        Quote: tatra
                        Absolutely meaningless verbiage, and in the end - in accordance with the mentality and negative qualities of enemies Communists -justification of Hitler and the Nazis who attacked the USSR and killed 27 million Soviet people. You , religious enemies of the Bolsheviks-Communists, with your human qualities,you justify the invaders of Russia invaders praise their accomplices -collaborators from among the Russian people.

                        Falling .... lol laughing

                        Come on, bye! lol
                      2. 0
                        30 March 2020 09: 00
                        Andrew! This does not have the slightest prospect! Therefore:
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Come on, bye!

                        The best answer! hi
                2. -1
                  31 March 2020 13: 47
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  WHY, FROM WHERE did the Russian people take conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion, truth-seeking, justice, spirituality,

                  And really: why and where?

                  "... essentially they are not bad and not at all evil ..."
                  “The humility of their women exceeds all human nature ...”
                  “... they can in no way be persuaded to slavery or submission in their own country. They are numerous, hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food. They relate to foreigners arriving to them affectionately and, showing them signs of their location (upon their transition) from one place to another, guard them if necessary ... ”
                  “They are not held captive in their captivity, like other tribes, for an unlimited time, but, limiting (the duration of slavery) to a certain time, they are offered a choice: whether they want to return home for a certain ransom or stay there (where they are) in the position of free and friends ”
                  “They are a mighty people with great scope and great courage. "They don’t know defeat, and none of them turns their backs on the enemy ..."

                  All these are the eastern Slavs of pre-Christian times. feel
                  1. -2
                    31 March 2020 14: 21
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    “The humility of their women exceeds all human nature ...”

                    Funny you: lol ...
                    The modesty of their women exceeds all human nature, so most of them consider the death of their husband to be their death and voluntarily suffocate themselves, not counting being widowed for life.
                    What is this nya? belay lol
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    All these are the eastern Slavs of pre-Christian times.

                    and that indicates the FACE of the RUSSIAN people, which determine a thousand years: nequidiscrimination, justice, spirituality, conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion?
                    You as horses in the market choose:
                    They numerous, hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food
                    belay negative
                    1. -1
                      31 March 2020 15: 40
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      What is this nya?

                      Consideration of your "no", and nothing more.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      and what does the FACE of the RUSSIAN people, which determine a thousand years, indicate: justice, justice, spirituality, conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion?

                      This is precisely what indicates: all these qualities took place over a thousand years, not thousands. Got it, no?
                      I repeat the question: why and where?
                      And I will add: all peoples have religions, by virtue of what exactly is the Russian "the best people on Earth"? Is it because of religion or people?
                      1. -1
                        April 1 2020 06: 30
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Consideration of your "no", and nothing more.

                        This is YOUR I, where you bashfully cut off:
                        voluntarily suffocate themselves, not counting being widowed for life.

                        WHERE do the Russian people like that? belay
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        This is precisely what indicates: all these qualities took place over a thousand years, not thousands.

                        By the criteria that you indicated:
                        They are numerous hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food
                        - choose SCOT in the market.

                        And I’m about the SOUL, THE FACE of the people who determine the thousand years: ORTHODOXY, justice, justice, spirituality, conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And I will add: all peoples have religions, by virtue of what exactly is the Russian "the best people on Earth"? Is it because of religion or people?

                        For you to understand, look at the HUMAN EDUCATION process.

                        WHAT again unclear? belay
                      2. 0
                        April 1 2020 11: 52
                        [quote = Olgovich] where you bashfully cut off [/ quot
                        Cited related to the topic. And you again nodded, trying to get away from the essence of the conversation. [Quote = Olgovich] By the criteria that you indicated:
                        They are numerous, hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food.
                        -SKOT in the bazaar. [/ quote]
                        And also warriors in a team-squad or workers in an artel for a difficult job. Or for you there is no difference between them and cattle? fool
                        Moreover, here you slyly (but not smartly) cut off: I gave a testimony of the Russian love for freedom and hospitality, and you switched to cattle ... am
                        [quote = Olgovich] And I about the SOUL, the FACE of the people who determine a thousand years [/ quote]
                        And I am the same. Only which determine thousands and years. Got it, no?
                        [quote = Olgovich] WHAT is again incomprehensible? [/ quote]
                        One: your obscene nonsense, which you yourself are not able to explain. fool negative
                        [quote = Olgovich] For you to understand, look at the HUMAN EDUCATION process. [/ quote]
                        So it’s not a matter of religion? Q.E.D.
                      3. -4
                        April 1 2020 12: 05
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Brought related to the topic. And you again nodded, trying to get away from the essence of the conversation.

                        No brought FULLY your july who showed it ravings.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And also warriors in a team-squad or workers in an artel for a difficult job. Or for you there is no difference between them and cattle?
                        Moreover, here you slyly (but not smartly) cut off: I gave a testimony of the Russian love for freedom and hospitality, and you switched to cattle ...

                        where is ..freedom ": hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food belay lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And I am the same.

                        well yes: hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        One: your obscene nonsense, which you yourself are not able to explain.

                        Someone is not able to UNDERSTAND lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        So it’s not a matter of religion? Q.E.D.

                        In her. t.d.
                      4. -1
                        April 1 2020 16: 47
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        where is ..freedom "

                        Here: "they can in no way be persuaded to slavery or submission in their country." As the lawyers say: read the entire document. fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Someone is not able to UNDERSTAND

                        Who - I see. laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        In her

                        We return to the question to which you were afraid to answer: all peoples have religions, by virtue of what exactly is the Russian "the best people on Earth"? wink
                      5. -5
                        April 1 2020 19: 45
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Here: "they can in no way be persuaded to slavery or submission in their country." As the lawyers say: read the entire document.

                        Duc ...there is nothing to read! request:
                        hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food
                        sir-s Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Who - I see.

                        Mirror, do not be fooled! Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        We return to the question that you were afraid to answer: all peoples have religions, by virtue of which is it the Russian "the best people on Earth"?

                        ONCE AGAIN: look at the HUMAN EDUCATION process: they educate him until they instill what is described above.

                        The Russians had the best teacher.
                      6. 0
                        April 2 2020 11: 06
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        nothing to read

                        There is something. More precisely: I do not want it, right? Really, not smoke, but pinching eyes?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The Russians had the best teacher.

                        Yeah? And the others, he was not the best? laughing bully
                      7. -3
                        April 2 2020 11: 58
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food

                        Bredyatina s!
                        Nothing to read ... request
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Yeah? And the others, he was not the best?

                        Didn’t he get it again?
                        You bore me .....
                        Teachers, they are ALWAYS and ALL different, though all ... teachers.
                      8. -1
                        April 3 2020 16: 55
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You bore me ..

                        Like a loser by the board.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Teachers, they are ALWAYS and ALL different, though all ... teachers

                        One teacher also has different students. And the results, too. What does it depend on?
            2. -2
              31 March 2020 13: 24
              Quote: Olgovich
              RUSSIAN PEOPLE are the best people on Earth: sincere, kind, courageous, intelligent, talented, conscientious and beautiful.

              Without any doubt! This explains why, in practice, the Russian people tried to build the most just society, which only the human mind — the communist one — could come up with. Without the influence of the Orthodox religion here, too, could not have done. hi
              1. 0
                31 March 2020 13: 30
                It's a hit below the belt good
                1. Fat
                  +1
                  31 March 2020 18: 42
                  Quote: Liam
                  It's a hit below the belt good

                  Oh!
                  The communists decided to build the "Kingdom of God on earth" without the participation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ...
                  Yes, "even during the lifetime of the current generation" (C)
                  So yes, it was not without influence ...)
                  What a blow? Is that head against the wall ...
              2. -3
                31 March 2020 14: 32
                Quote: Sahar Medovich
                Without any doubt! This explains why, in practice, the Russian people tried to build the most just society, which only the human mind — the communist one — could come up with.

                This explains why he rejected this foreign utopian CHIMERA, imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, WITHOUT HIS consent, so disgusting to his freedom-loving and philanthropic essence.
                Bringing him losses, unprecedented in his history, and leading to Extinction since 1964, a terrible tragedy.!
                And this happened, of course, with the spiritual support of his native Orthodox Church, which endured along with him all the killings, persecutions and destruction that fell on their lot in terrible times.
                1. -1
                  31 March 2020 15: 34
                  [quote = Olgovich] he rejected this foreign utopian chimera [/ quote
                  Is it rejected?
                  That is the question.
                  [quote = Olgovich] imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, WITHOUT HIS consent, so disgusting to his freedom-loving and philanthropic essence. [/ quote]
                  And this is a fact: not imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, but realized by HIS compatriots in practice with HIS active support from HIS, long-standing aspirations that came from HIS freedom-loving and philanthropic essence.
                  1. -1
                    April 1 2020 06: 18
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Is it rejected?
                    That is the question.

                    In the window, take a look Yes
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    And this is a fact: not imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, but realized by HIS compatriots in practice with HIM active support HIS long-standing aspirations that came from HIS freedom-loving and human-loving essence.

                    Freedom is what you didn’t HAVE had elections, freedom of speech, conscience, marches, meetings, opinions, movements, parties, etc.

                    Humanity, see. to the loss of people for your rule, NEVER there have been such in our history (I understand, I understand, ALL AROUND, but not yours lol )
                    1. -1
                      April 1 2020 09: 06
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In the window, take a look

                      He looked. No sign. However, there is indeed a red flag above the local department of the Communist Party. But it is hard to see from the window. In general, I prefer to communicate with people, rather than looking through the windows.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Freedom is what you didn’t HAVE had elections, freedom of speech, conscience, marches, meetings, opinions, movements, parties, etc.

                      There were elections, there was freedom of speech, conscience, movement, opinion. There was only one party, but many parties, as is now known, are not at all an indicator of freedom. An analytical conclusion - in the USSR there was freedom. drinks
                      1. -2
                        April 1 2020 09: 21
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        He looked. No sign.

                        So I about it, no kommszma Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Elections - were, freedom of speech, conscience, movement, opinion - was.

                        Shame ....
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        An analytical conclusion - in the USSR there was freedom.

                        there was, yes: Yehudam, hedgehog, frinovsky and other VKPB-destroy freedom
                      2. -1
                        April 1 2020 12: 02
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So I about it, no kommszma

                        As well as his rejection.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Disgrace

                        Your stupid nonsense and stupid slander - yes.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yehudam, hedgehog, frinovsky and other VKPB

                        The whole country consisted of Yehuds, hedgehogs, frinovskih and other VKPB ?! There were 200 million? !!! However, it carries you ... laughing fool
                      3. -5
                        April 1 2020 12: 51
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        As well as his rejection.

                        And again, see. through the window and find ... him lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Your stupid nonsense and stupid slander - yes.

                        Facts, just FACTS, liar
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        Whole country consisted of Yehuds, hedgehogs, frinovskys and other VKPB ?! There were 200 million? !!! However, it carries you ..

                        whole country free individuals from Yehud, hedgehog, frinovskie and other VKPB
                      4. -1
                        April 1 2020 16: 55
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        And again, see. through the window and find ... him

                        Rejection? You can’t find it yourself, suggest me? good
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Facts, just FACTS, liar

                        Not a single liar.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        individuals from Yehud, hedgehog, frinovskie and other VKPB freely pushed around the country

                        And what was the best people in the world doing at this time? The most daring and smart?
                      5. -5
                        April 1 2020 19: 55
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Rejection? You can’t find it yourself, suggest me?

                        WHERE .... communism? belay

                        .... dumb .... request lol:
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Facts, just FACTS, liar

                        Not a single liar.

                        Repeat:
                        1. communism is not and does not smell
                        2. yours, no. sunk into oblivion
                        3. freedoms with you, was not
                        4. There is nothing and nowhere to eat, clothe, live
                        5. etc.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And what was the best people in the world doing at this time? The most daring and smart?

                        SURVIVED in the wild, difficult conditions arranged by yours. And at the same time, EVERYTHING IS EQUAL, he loved, laughed, built and won, contrary to them.
                      6. -1
                        April 2 2020 11: 13
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHERE .... communism?

                        And where is his rejection? Yours itch all the time: "The country has not got rid of communism." Do they see him?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        yours, no. sunk into oblivion

                        Well, yes - your memory is put to Lenin and Stalin. And PR them wherever possible. And do you personally here on your site pound so cruelly all the time?

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        There is nothing and nowhere to eat, clothe, live

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        SURVIVED IN WILD, DIFFICULT CONDITIONS,

                        Only these conditions, in his opinion, were better than before and after. What then are they? belay
                      7. -4
                        April 2 2020 13: 08
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And where is his rejection?

                        The fact that it is NOT ..

                        Already 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, etc. years ago, they promised and ... zilch!
                        All you dancers, I interfered! lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Well, yes - your memoirs to Lenin and Stalin set.

                        lol laughing on the ... blind area, at the alms-entrances?
                        As for, by the way, ich is an idea?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And do you personally here on your site pound so cruelly all the time?

                        belay head off on the floor?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Only these conditions, in his opinion, were better than before and after. What then are they?

                        Extinction, since 1964, universal alcoholization and abortion, coupons for cowards, etc. at the top of the "development" -class!
                        So self-expired pseudo-power has disappeared, with you completely sneezing
                      8. -1
                        April 2 2020 14: 34
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        That he is NOT

                        However, there is demand. And demand can give birth .. and even grow good
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        on the ... blind area, at the alms-entrances?

                        On the central streets, squares, etc.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        icha is an ideal

                        Translate into Russian.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        head off on the floor?

                        You better know. It seems to everyone about everything? laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich

                        Extinction - since 1964, universal alcoholization and abortion

                        You're lying. But the main thing - in comparison, that quality of life wins. Are the rest worse?
                      9. -4
                        April 3 2020 09: 50
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But demand there is. And demand can give birth

                        Demand for rubber women is lol
                        they will give birth to you! lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        On the central streets, squares, etc.

                        lol laughing
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Translate into Russian.

                        not Russian?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You better know.

                        Yes, I hear your knock Yes
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You're lying.

                        ignoramus: http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0139/tema04.php
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        But the main thing - in comparison, that quality of life wins.

                        STA ?!
                        WHAT WITH WHAT?
                        1991 with .... 1913?
                        You are about coupons for shorts and a shortage of everything and everything (oh, coupons, you let out a cloud, yes!) laughing
                      10. -1
                        April 3 2020 17: 34
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Demand for rubber women is
                        they will give birth to you!

                        Give a tooth?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        not Russian?

                        Your text is yes.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Yes, I hear your knock

                        Yes Yes. "Russians are coming!" And - out the window! Yes
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0139/tema04.php

                        In Russia - as well as in the USA, Great Britain, France, Italy, West Germany? In your words: normal development path? Hard case. fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        WHAT WITH WHAT?

                        Food, clothing, housing, health, safety. Briefly: total - with everything. Just a fact.
                      11. -3
                        April 3 2020 20: 16
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Demand for rubber women Yes
                        they to you and will give birth!

                        Give a tooth?

                        The communists will cope with them "There are no peaks that ...." lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Your text is yes.

                        You.
                        So is the idea new? Near which container is plastic or cardboard? lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich

                        In Russia - as well as in the USA, Great Britain, France, Italy, West Germany? In your words: normal development path? Hard case

                        Not the same, but the FIRST began to die out. and just 50 years before, all of Europe was far behind Russia by birth.

                        Western peoples-OLD peoples, the French at the beginning of the last century, almost died out, they went to sunset.
                        And the Russian people are young, but you drove him accelerated into old age, not allowing to enjoy maturity ...
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Food, clothing, housing, healthcare, security. Briefly: total - with everything. Just a fact.

                        who with whom?
                      12. 0
                        April 4 2020 08: 56
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So is the idea new? Near which container is plastic or cardboard?

                        Look for your there. Their place is there! And here: https://bloknot-krasnodar.ru/news/lenin-i-matros-poyavilis-v-tsentre-krasnodara-1182425
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Western peoples - OLD peoples,

                        Americans including? Very funny. And, for example, are the Chinese or Indians young people? Generally scream. Go on! laughing laughing laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The French at the beginning of the last century, almost died out,

                        It was necessary to fight less.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        who with whom?

                        All in all. He said it clearly.
                      13. -4
                        April 4 2020 10: 34
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Look for your there. Their place is there! And here: https://bloknot-krasnodar.ru/news/lenin-i-matros-poyavilis-v-tsentre-krasnodara-1182425

                        This is not a new monument, liar!
                        Submit evidence of your empty statements!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Americans including? Very funny.

                        Americans, from whom are they composed? fool
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Are the Chinese or Indians young people?

                        Hilarious to talk about ... "Indians" as a people. India - multinational country. The largest nations: Hindustanis, Telugu, Marathi, Bengalis, Jat, Tamils, Gujaratis, Kannara, Punjabis.
                        The Chinese are registered at the 1964 census in China 129 peoples 74 were included in the recognized 54, while 23 were classified as “others” and 32 as “doubtful”. in China there are 299 languages. Those. people still being formed
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It was necessary to fight less.

                        Yeah, others fought less fool lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        All in all. He said it clearly.

                        Who with whom, a liar?
                        To the USA and Europe, as to Moscow, um, yes lol
                      14. 0
                        April 4 2020 13: 15
                        Not new, yeah. Three months have already passed. But still, compared with the Samara https://www.kp.ru/online/news/3666692/ or the Volgograd https: //ataman-golovko.livejournal.com/142236.html ... hi
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Americans, from whom

                        From many nations, including Russians. But, as they themselves say, they are a fundamentally NEW people. Or are you old? WHO DID IT DO WITH THEM? fool
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        about ... "Indians" as a people

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Those. people are still being formed

                        And who speaks about the people. It is about the people of AH. And do you think they have not yet formed? Then the French are generally an embryo ...
                        Do not know how to lie - do not make the audience laugh in the courtroom! Or, as you often say: "If you can't - don't torture" laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        With whom

                        Sclerosis?
                      15. -4
                        April 4 2020 13: 41
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Already three months have passed

                        This scum-TENS years!
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        https://www.kp.ru/online/news/3666692/

                        lol
                        it’s not the residents, but the Communists junk from its huge cemetery-vault, countless idols now useless to anyone.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Volgograd https: //ataman-golovko.livejournal.com/142236.html ...

                        And again -OLD from the warehouse, even the funds were not enough for a pedestal under the size of the bust-hanging from two sides-disgrace.....
                        And the installation, generally Mocking, on the porch, between the two entrances on the blind area, is more convenient to collect alms.
                        NEW ichi ide?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        From many nations, including Russians. But, as they themselves say, they are a fundamentally NEW people.

                        From OLD peoples, with their mentality and image: Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Italians.
                        Got it, no?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And who speaks about the people

                        Are you:
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Chinese or Indians are young nations?
                        or don’t realize what you are writing? Not Russian?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        With whom

                        Sclerosis?

                        Who with whom?
                        Don't wag your head lol
                      16. 0
                        April 4 2020 14: 20
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        this urtsu TENS years

                        And the installation of these masterpieces is NEW. In places where they did not stand before.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        OLD from the warehouse, even the funds were not enough for a pedestal under the size of the bust — hanging from two sides — a disgrace

                        Quiet impotent rage and silently envy. laughing
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        From OLD peoples, with their mentality and image: Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Italians.

                        Are the Americans right or not, calling their country a "melting pot" in which a fundamentally NEW people with a NEW mentality is being formed (not yet formed!)? If not, why not? Got it, didn't it?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Not Russian

                        Especially for non-Russian: the peoples of China and India. And all of Southeast Asia, as well as the Arab countries - are the peoples young or old? And why? Got it, no?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Don't wag your head

                        Turn on your head. Just warm it first.
                      17. -4
                        April 4 2020 15: 31
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And the installation of these masterpieces is NEW. In places where they did not stand before

                        Of course, before this junk was not on the new PAPERTI, but now -TAM lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Quiet impotent rage and silently envy

                        Anger at the clumsy gimmicks and attempts at the old time? belay lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Are the Americans right or not, calling their country a "melting pot" in which a fundamentally NEW people with a NEW mentality is being formed (not yet formed!)? If not, why not?

                        From BURYAN is formed, eh?
                        Got it, no?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Especially for non-Russian: the peoples of China and India

                        Yes, you are a true borshevik-in the EYE lies: not the peoples of China and India, but
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Chinese or Indians are young nations?

                        Again wagging the upper limb lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Turn on your head. Just warm it first.

                        And this is the answer to the question: "WHO is with WHOM?" fool lol laughing
                        Not Russian, yes ....
                      18. -1
                        April 4 2020 17: 24
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Of course, before this junk was not on the new PAPERTI, but now -TAM

                        One way or another they are posed. My truth is your lie.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Anger at the clumsy gimmicks and attempts at the old time?

                        Your anger is for you to know.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        From BURYAN is formed, eh?
                        Got it, no?

                        It got the first time - you, a liar, are again in a puddle.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        peoples of China and India

                        So are they young people or old, liar?
                        Finally, take courage, stop wagging with all parts of the body below the head and turn on the head itself.
                      19. -3
                        April 5 2020 10: 56
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        One way or another they are posed. My truth is your lie.

                        You talked about NEW, liar, and this is junk from the warehouse
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Your anger is for you to know.

                        Are the funny CLOUNDS angry?
                        Above them, LAUGH! lol laughing
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It got the first time - you, a liar, are again in a puddle.

                        It's all? Weak? lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        So they are young people or old,

                        See above, tanker lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Finally, take courage, stop wagging

                        belay
                        Do you need ... courage for non-violence?
                        And people need a HEAD! lol
                      20. -1
                        April 5 2020 12: 15
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You talked about NEW, liar, and this is junk from the warehouse

                        You're lying, as always with a loss. I said that they PUT, continue to put, and restore the old or make new ones - this was not discussed, liar.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Are the funny CLOUNDS angry?
                        Above them, LAUGH!

                        That's right. You get angry, I laugh. And not just me.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        It's all?

                        It’s enough for you. So what is it with the old-young peoples, liar? They blurted out without thinking, now the language is numb and the brain is jammed? You need to think with your head, and not with the part that you think!fool
                      21. -3
                        April 5 2020 20: 22
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I said that they PUT, continue to put, and restore the old or make new - there was no talk about itabout,

                        belay fool lol
                        Sclerosis is YOU:
                        Not new, yeah. Already three months have passed

                        2. How can I put what ...already stood earlier ?! fool
                        that is, if you put Dzerzhinsky on Lubyanka, then this is .... there will be two monuments? lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        That's right. You get angry, I laugh. And not just me.

                        lol I do not care about the ridiculous CLOWNS, "menacing" grinning long-knocked out teeth and waving their shabby tail, they work like carpet in pauses and then ... No.
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It’s enough for you.

                        Weakened, oops? lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        So there we have with old and young nations

                        What is stuck in you, I don’t know .... This is from childhood, you see .... lol
                      22. 0
                        April 6 2020 14: 13
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        how can you put what ... already stood earlier

                        Simply and easily. If it was, then it was demolished, it can be set AGAIN. By NEW. AGAIN. Fairstein?
                        If a parking lot is made in one yard - this is a NEW parking lot, even though there are cars that have long stood in the same yard.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        If you put Dzerzhinsky in the Lubyanka, then this is .... two monuments will be?

                        If it is put on the Lubyanka, it will be a AGAIN, AGAIN erected monument. If it is put, say, on Shabolovka, it will be a NEW monument. Even if he is old. Because it didn’t stand there before!
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        I do not care

                        Still would. If there is nothing to bite, it remains to sprinkle with saliva and bark yap. In impotent rage.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So what we have with old-young peoples,
                        What is stuck in you, I don’t know

                        Okay. We assume that I accepted your surrender. Another one.
                      23. -3
                        April 6 2020 14: 56
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Simply and easily. If it was, then it was demolished, it can be set AGAIN. By NEW. AGAIN. Fairstein?

                        OLD, not new.!
                        Got it, no?
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        If it is put on the Lubyanka, it will be a AGAIN, AGAIN erected monument. If it is put, say, on Shabolovka, it will be a NEW monument.

                        "New", which is ... 70 years old? fool
                        Maybe you, the old baby, are new, eh? lol
                        It looks like the "depth" lol
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Still would. If there is nothing to bite, it remains to sprinkle with saliva and bark yap. In impotent rage.

                        Malice on a shabby dead tiger, with torn fangs and a tattered skin that any curious sticks with a stick? lol
                        laughing .
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Okay. We assume that your surrender I accepted. .

                        On Mondays, I do not serve.
                        To freedom! Yes
                      24. -1
                        April 7 2020 11: 51
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        old baby - new

                        Are there old babies? Did you see it in the mirror?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Malice on a shabby dead tiger, with torn fangs and a tattered skin that any curious sticks with a stick?

                        Jackals are afraid of such a tiger.
                      25. -3
                        April 7 2020 12: 01
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Are there old babies?

                        YOU have exactly THIS: old stuff is ... new fool lol laughing
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Jackals and such tiger fear.

                        In-in: this is how this junk thinks when it is "menacing" bristling. pulled out long ago, mustache. lol
                      26. -1
                        April 7 2020 12: 43
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Are there old babies?
                        YOU have it SO

                        Words are yours, not mine.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        so this junk thinks

                        If he "thinks". This is reality!
                      27. -3
                        April 7 2020 13: 11
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Words are yours, not mine.

                        and junk .... "new" lol yours as well as yours
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        If he "thinks". This is reality!

                        Yes, this shabby gutted -OUR fool "reality"! Yes

                        Yes, and: "To freedom!" Yes
                      28. 0
                        April 8 2020 04: 53
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        YOUR "reality"

                        Which jackals keeps in horror. belay
                    2. -1
                      April 1 2020 11: 58
                      Forgot to answer this:
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Humanity, see. to the loss of people for your rule, NEVER there have been such in our history (I understand, I understand, ALL AROUND, but not yours

                      As for "NEVER were like that" - this is, as always, demagoguery, but now is not about that. And about this: all these losses for ANYTHING would not have been so great without the ACTIVE participation of our very best on Earth: sincere, kind, courageous, intelligent, talented, conscientious, etc. etc. people.
                      1. -6
                        April 1 2020 12: 53
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        As for "NEVER were like that" - this is, as always, demagoguery, but now is not about that.

                        it's just a fact
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        And about this: all these losses would NOT be so great without the ACTIVE participation of our best on Earth: sincere, kind, courageous, smart, talented, conscientious, etc. etc. of the people.

                        belay fool lol
        2. +1
          29 March 2020 11: 02
          Bravo Anton! In this case, there is one recipe: go to the mirror to look in reflection and say in a soft, kind voice: * How wonderful this world is, how colorful it is! How many different shades it has! And I'm not the last creature in it. No! Far away not the last! *.
          1. +4
            29 March 2020 11: 14
            Thank you, Sergey! hi
            I took advice, looked in the mirror, saw the burgundy face of the St. Petersburg marginal, remembered Descartes and Socrates, and smiled!
            1. +1
              29 March 2020 11: 16
              Anton !!! Yes, I didn’t give you this advice, but to my opponent! Well, it may help not to see our world only in black. hi
              1. +1
                29 March 2020 11: 19
                I forgot to add a smiley in the end of the match. Like this: laughing
        3. +4
          29 March 2020 11: 24
          If you try to imagine the effect of the discussion by the ratio of interesting thoughts to emotions, this branch will not be effective.

          All that could be expressed.

          "And then an eternal, fluent retelling" (c).
      2. 0
        29 March 2020 11: 09
        But to try to look at the temple as a masterpiece of architecture, weak? Isaac, the Savior on Blood in St. Petersburg, St. Basil the Blessed in Moscow, the Assumption in Vladimir and a host of others. Is this so your fault?
    2. BAI
      +7
      29 March 2020 11: 08
      the need for restoration of Issakia or the Savior on Blood.
      These objects are state-owned, and the owner must take care of their conservation. And under construction - a new facility, for the Russian Orthodox Church, at public expense.
      1. +2
        29 March 2020 11: 32
        You are partly right, colleague.
        However, as I said, I am inclined to consider this construction as a restoration of an architectural monument, without giving any political or religious color to the action.
        By the way, the Russian Orthodox Church’s attempt several years ago to squeeze the St. Isaac’s Cathedral (incidentally, just restored) into its property caused me very negative emotions.
    3. +5
      29 March 2020 14: 33
      Hello Anton!
      As a pretext for another mega-crime between the local groups of "Bulkokhrusts" and "Bolsheviks", the article is an undoubted success.
      But, let’s say, the information and educational component of the article is practically zero, since stating the fact, the article gives nothing to understand its reason.
      After all, nothing arises from nothing. And then all of a sudden the people of a country whose official ideology was nationality and all aspects of whose life were controlled by the church so took up arms against this church that it began to blow up temples?
      Without explaining that both religious and anti-religious violence are just one of the manifestations of political, social and cultural processes taking place in society, such a worldview metamorphosis is completely incomprehensible.
      And the attempt to present the "Bolsheviks" as some kind of abstract, outrageous category of the church outside of society or over society is an obvious distortion.
      Obviously, the roots of the phenomenon are much deeper, and the seeds are thrown into the soil much earlier.
      The truth is tormented by doubts that an audience educated on holivars will be able to evaluate and understand articles on a similar topic.
      But at least you can try, otherwise, under these sketches, the ability to think and evaluate among the people will completely dissolve. Or is that the point?
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 15: 23
        Viktor Nikolaevich, you admit there is a chance that someone’s arguments will be heard?
        1. 0
          29 March 2020 16: 32
          Hi Sergey! Well, why not? Convinced of their innocence, namely, in their own! Of course it’s unrealistic to convince. But is there a chance that someone will think about it?
          1. +2
            29 March 2020 16: 55
            To some extent, it was already:

            "Not a fighter of two staves,
            But only a random guest "(c).

            And the continuation of fierce disputes is like an unfinished Civil War.

            Another thing is that not blood, but "ink" is spilled.
            1. +1
              29 March 2020 17: 34
              That is true, but some characters are frankly surprised. It is because of their intransigence and unwillingness to understand the interlocutor!
        2. +3
          29 March 2020 20: 37
          You admit there is a chance that someone’s arguments will be heard?
          Probability is a measure of the transformation of opportunity into reality in a situation of uncertainty.
          That is, without giving the chance a chance, we will never know whether it will become a reality.
      2. +2
        29 March 2020 21: 34
        Hello, Victor Nikolaevich!
        In general, I had no doubt that Vyacheslav Olegovich, as a great master of provocation, specifically set a similar tonality to the material.
        1. BAI
          +3
          29 March 2020 22: 04
          On the analysis of paintings, so many comments can not be typed.
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 22: 12
            Dear colleague, at the moment I did not catch to which Shpakovsky's material your comment refers ... To yesterday or today?
        2. +1
          31 March 2020 11: 33
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          In general, I had no doubt that Vyacheslav Olegovich, as a great master of provocation, specifically set a similar tonality to the material.

          By the way, there are already 500 comments.
  25. +2
    29 March 2020 10: 10
    Honest communists will say it was a mistake. It is better to close and make a warehouse there, but the building itself will survive and survive until the time when radicalism subsides.
    Who thinks that faith dilutes people and makes them humble and clogged, please take a look at the map of Russia. Remember how our ancestors fought, can cowardly people do this?
    In the Russian Orthodox Church, there are certainly people who profit from faith. But there are many more who help people in difficult situations. Nobody needs alcoholics, drug addicts, former prisoners, lonely old people, dysfunctional children. The church helps them. And how many ordinary people in the difficult moments of their lives turn to church. So before you scold and laugh at the Russian Orthodox Church, think about it. The church is now practically the only one who opposes the debauchery and general stupidity of youth, against the collapse of the family. And he gets a bunch of ridicule in the media.
    1. +4
      29 March 2020 10: 26
      I am simply "touched" by people who thank those who have enriched themselves at the expense of Russia and its people, and "three kopecks" are unfastened for charity.
      That is why post-Soviet Russia will never be rich and developed, and the people will not live well, that Russia was captured by people with completely perverted priorities
    2. +3
      29 March 2020 11: 11
      The church is now almost the only one who opposes debauchery and universal dullness youth
      Bees against honey! Do you believe that in the 21st century, an intelligent young man will go to church? belay
      Take an interest in the ratio of level of religiosity, IQ, and welfare.
      1. Fat
        +2
        29 March 2020 16: 56
        Quote: Bastinda
        Take an interest in the ratio of level of religiosity, IQ, and welfare.

        There is no correlation between these levels. No.
        At a discount you can cite the example of Ulugbek.
    3. +3
      29 March 2020 11: 46
      Quote: Moskovit
      In the Russian Orthodox Church, there are certainly people who profit from faith. But there are many more who help people in difficult situations.

      Judging by my observations, the opposite is true.
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 12: 45
        Your observations? You visited 95 Orthodox shelters for the homeless, visited orphanages, maybe you stopped at rehab for drug addicts?
        1. +6
          29 March 2020 13: 17
          Quote: Moskovit
          You visited 95 Orthodox shelters for the homeless, visited orphanages, maybe you stopped at rehab for drug addicts?

          No, I haven’t been. But I know what fees (!) For the funeral service and baptism, and I know how much it costs to study in the Orthodox gymnasium of Togliatti.
          When a "priest", who has come to the apartment of the deceased, conducts a funeral service with a quick twister, without bothering to take off his down jacket over his cassock - what kind of respect can we talk about? What kind of respect can we talk about when a grandmother in a church shop explains the twenty percent increase in the price of baptism by inflation, while housing and utilities were raised by only 3%?
      2. Fat
        +1
        29 March 2020 16: 57
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Judging by my observations, the opposite is true.

        Didn't know that you used to attend the temple.
        1. +2
          29 March 2020 17: 00
          No. I do not have a regular habit, but sometimes I do.
  26. I
    +1
    29 March 2020 10: 35
    And two thousand years is a war
    War for no particular reason.
    War is the work of the young
    Anti-wrinkle medicine.
    Red, red blood -
    An hour later, just the earth,
    Two flowers on it and grass
    After three she is alive again
    And warmed by the rays of the Star
    By the name of the Sun ...

    Victor Tsoi, 1989
  27. +1
    29 March 2020 10: 39
    Quote: Moksha
    No matter what political system in Russia, communist, imperialist or democratic, all will still live badly. Is always. Look at China, the USA or Germany. Different cultures, different systems. But there is one main thing - MAN.

    ===
    "seers" pulled up)
    1. I
      +2
      29 March 2020 16: 01
      all the same they will live badly. ,,


      It all depends on the worldview of a particular person.
      Alone in prison as in paradise. Another obsessed with passions (especially envy) and with a million Eurodollars will curse everyone and everything and everything will be wrong for him.


      ,,ABOUT. John prayed all his life for his investigator, by the way, also Ivan Mikhailovich, who broke all his fingers during the investigation. And truly, “his heart was filled with that mighty, mysterious and all-forgiving love that the crucified Christ brought. He hid the secret of the new martyrs and confessors of Russia: “Father said that the years spent in the camp were the happiest years of his life.

      - Because God was there! - the priest explained with enthusiasm. Although, no doubt, I was aware that until the end we will not be able to understand it.

      “For some reason I don’t remember anything bad,” he said about the camp. “I only remember: the sky is open and the Angels are singing in heaven.” Now I don’t have such a prayer. ”,,
  28. BAI
    +9
    29 March 2020 11: 05
    1. Why should the Soviet government love the Russian Orthodox Church if it was an ardent enemy of the Soviet government at that time?
    2. Why is a religious building being built at public expense? Donations there are clearly not enough.
    1. +2
      29 March 2020 11: 16
      In general, those who, after their capture of the USSR, destroy everything not only Soviet, but also Russian, with fantastic arrogance still present to the Bolsheviks-Communists the demands that they were obliged to abandon everything as it was before the October Revolution, including the richest Church. They demolish the monuments of the Soviet era, are furious for demolishing the Mausoleum, but the fact that the Bolsheviks demolished religious buildings, expose those for a crime.
  29. +5
    29 March 2020 11: 19
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich.

    Looking at the pages of newspapers of that time, one can better understand the works of Bulgakov.
    1. +3
      29 March 2020 14: 42
      I thought it would be interesting for you to watch this newspaper. For example, I could not even think that this was ...
      1. +2
        29 March 2020 14: 54
        This is like polyphony. Time stamp.

        Sometimes I think how quickly the country changed its clothes. Sometimes even more often than in a decade. And all this continues to this day.
  30. +4
    29 March 2020 12: 29
    To complete the picture, it would be nice for the author to indicate his attitude, for example, to Vasily Perov's “Tea Party in Mytishchi, near Moscow”.
  31. +5
    29 March 2020 12: 29
    Damn. People, stop the union already pour mud. As if RI and other countries, like the current Russian corporation, have no crimes. Stop looping. So we will never come together, and we will endlessly confront on many issues of history. If something was done, then it was necessary at that moment in time and the mood of society. It was, it was, so what? Let's snot in the future begin to come about the Neo -ertals destroyed by the ancestors of our man — and for a moment the Neo -ertals are a parallel branch of a person and not a frog which somehow could come out of them by our time — let's swear about it. At this stage in the history of this country, the quicker we will unite as a common idea, the sooner it will become masses and the faster we will be able to resist the decisions of our fat cats spitting on us. And about the skeletons in the closets, leave it to historians or later. Today it is far from such an important issue of the survival of the Russian people in their country.
  32. +5
    29 March 2020 12: 29
    Damn. People, stop the union already pour mud. As if RI and other countries, like the current Russian corporation, have no crimes. Stop looping. So we will never come together, and we will endlessly confront on many issues of history. If something was done, then it was necessary at that moment in time and the mood of society. It was, it was, so what? Let's snot in the future begin to come about the Neo -ertals destroyed by the ancestors of our man — and for a moment the Neo -ertals are a parallel branch of a person and not a frog which somehow could come out of them by our time — let's swear about it. At this stage in the history of this country, the quicker we will unite as a common idea, the sooner it will become masses and the faster we will be able to resist the decisions of our fat cats spitting on us. And about the skeletons in the closets, leave it to historians or later. Today it is far from such an important issue of the survival of the Russian people in their country.
    1. +4
      29 March 2020 13: 35
      Great opinion! You need to know history both victories and defeats, both great pages and shameful. Every nation has this, but to focus on the negative is a direct way to the collapse of the state
      1. +2
        29 March 2020 14: 06
        So I’m constantly writing about the fact that the tactics of our enemies are bad — about a good choir and about bad things — let the narrow specialists argue, and the bulk of the population should feel that her country is the best. if we didn’t win at all and have no moral right, it’s proud of the exploits that it’s not the movement of the authorities that it’s a desire to dump in Mumbo-Yumbo tomorrow it is too late.
  33. +4
    29 March 2020 12: 44
    obscurantism and degradation ...
    the author would better tell at whose expense this religious building is being built ... again.
    1. +1
      29 March 2020 14: 44
      Quote: TAMBU
      the author would better tell at whose expense this religious building is being built

      Go to the website of the Penza diocese and take an interest ...
      1. +3
        29 March 2020 15: 12

        Well, why should I write in an article about the cathedral ... although what I wanted from a collection of Penza rumors ...
        I already know that there is not enough money for that small share of parishioners who need a cathedral to build such a structure, and even more so for the construction of so many temples, churches, cathedrals, etc. The state allocates money. Secular yet.
  34. +6
    29 March 2020 13: 09
    Quote: bober1982
    Quote: Bastinda
    Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

    A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
    But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

    Basically, the churches were destroyed, which the Russian Orthodox Church refused, that is, a small parish, and the tax is large. After all, the USSR separated the church from the state and the church had to pay taxes.
    1. 0
      29 March 2020 13: 48
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      After all, the USSR separated the church from the state and the church had to pay taxes.

      The clergy, even for the possession of the radio, paid the most. crying
    2. -1
      29 March 2020 14: 21
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      After all, the USSR separated the church from the state and the church had to pay taxes.

      Not quite so, the Church was outlawed, and you are talking about some small parishes and taxes. It was Trotskyist politics, these Satanists were simply jarred and enraged by the mere mention of the Church, why there were such cruelties.
      Stalin was a pragmatic person, hence the ........brothers and sisters
      1. +8
        29 March 2020 14: 42
        The church in the USSR was never "outlawed".
        1. -1
          29 March 2020 15: 01
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          The church in the USSR was never "outlawed".

          Stalin returned her the status of a legal entity in 1943, and provided great financial assistance, including.
          1. +3
            29 March 2020 15: 13
            Listen, but the Baptist church is like, nothing? And then I was somehow offered a job as a laborer there. 20 thousand per month (it was about five years ago), and the nuns are young there.
            1. 0
              29 March 2020 15: 14
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              and the nuns are young there.

              Where did the nuns come from? Do not compose.
              1. +1
                29 March 2020 15: 18
                Quote: bober1982
                Where did the nuns come from? Do not compose.

                How much do I know? Some kind of abode there at them. With an acquaintance of acquaintances I thumped like that, he offered me. But there someone needs to kiss the pen, well, I did not go.
                1. -1
                  29 March 2020 15: 23
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  How much do I know?

                  They themselves mentioned them, and now you ask a question, strange.
                  1. +1
                    29 March 2020 15: 30
                    Quote: bober1982
                    They themselves mentioned them, and now you ask a question, strange.

                    So I don't know much about religious matters. Well, I studied the "Atheist's Handbook" like that, and even then, it flew into one eye, flew into the other. I do not remember almost anything that is written there.
          2. +1
            29 March 2020 15: 15
            I don't know about financial assistance, but in my opinion from 1917 to 1990 it had the status of a "religious organization", and legal. the person is a little not about that (taxation, etc.).
            1. +2
              29 March 2020 15: 21
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              but in my opinion from 1917 to 1990, she had

              Who was not there during this period - from 1917 to 1990, there are open and Satanists - Trotsky, Gubelman, Sverdlov, and Stalin ... brothers and sisters, and the persecution of Khrushchev, which can be compared with the persecution of the Roman emperors. Ah, you say so simply ....... was the status of a religious organization
              1. +2
                29 March 2020 15: 41
                Satanists are those who worship Satan. For some reason it seems to me. that the above comrades were atheists, that is, they could not be included in the number of satanists.
                1. +1
                  29 March 2020 15: 44
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  For some reason it seems to me. that the above comrades were atheists

                  Dear Alexey, what naivety! Was it Bronstein and the company who were atheists? These, in fact, were "religious" fanatics.
                  1. +1
                    29 March 2020 15: 51
                    The denial of the idea of ​​God can be called fanaticism, but can you really call it "religious fanaticism"? Or do you think. that they "drank the blood of Russian babies" at the Purim holiday?
                    1. 0
                      29 March 2020 16: 03
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Denial of ideas

                      But, there is worship of his "antipode", about ...... drank the blood of Russian babiesI did not say a word .....
                      1. +1
                        29 March 2020 16: 21
                        You want to say that Trotsky, Stalin, Sverdlov bowed to someone?
                      2. 0
                        29 March 2020 16: 30
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        You want to say that Trotsky, Stalin, Sverdlov

                        You, Stalin, separate from these characters Trotsky and Sverdlov, and I am not a fan of Comrade Stalin, I will make a reservation right away, but these were not comrades at all.
                        Trotsky and company, of course, are Satanists.
                      3. +2
                        29 March 2020 16: 38
                        Dear Vladimir, even if you separate Comrade Stalin, then none of the remaining Satan still worshiped. Maybe they were not the best Marxists, but for that, believe me, they had enough intelligence.
                      4. +1
                        29 March 2020 16: 45
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Maybe they were not the best Marxists.

                        Were not, these, no Marxists.
                      5. +1
                        29 March 2020 16: 47
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        believe me, they had enough mind.

                        I believe, willingly, there were completely intelligent people, or rather nonhumans.
                      6. +2
                        29 March 2020 16: 50
                        Whoever they were, but they didn’t worship any Satan, or do you really have a different opinion?
                      7. 0
                        29 March 2020 17: 03
                        I already answered, I have nothing to say.
                      8. Fat
                        +1
                        29 March 2020 23: 15
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Whoever they were, but they didn’t worship any Satan, or do you really have a different opinion?

                        Fiery revolutionaries have their own religions. During the French Revolution, from the "cult of reason" by Chaumette, to the "cult of the Supreme Being" Robesrieres ..
                        Christian churches were closed (massively since November 1793), were plundered, declared "temples of the Mind", they held celebrations in honor of the "Goddess of the Mind", which actresses portrayed during theatrical performances. In Paris, at the altar of the Notre Dame Cathedral, the Goddess of Reason was played by an opera actress. During the holidays of Reason in the south of France, organized by the future Napoleonic prefect of the police, Joseph Foucher, the execution of criminals was organized.

                        Also with human sacrifices ...
                        On May 7, 1794, under pressure from Robespierre, the National Convention adopted a declaration according to which "the French people recognize the existence of the Supreme Being and the immortality of the soul." The declaration went on to say: “He acknowledges that worthy worship of the Supreme Being is the fulfillment of human duties. At the head of these duties he puts hatred of unbelief and tyranny, punishing traitors and tyrants, helping the unfortunate, respecting the weak, protecting the oppressed, rendering all kinds of good to the neighbor and avoiding all evil. ” On June 8, 1794, a public celebration of the Supreme Being was organized in Paris, where Robespierre delivered a speech. Thus, the state religion was actually introduced in violation of the ideals of the Revolution and freedom of conscience was not allowed.
                2. 0
                  29 March 2020 16: 14
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Satanists are those who worship Satan. For some reason it seems to me. that the above comrades were atheists, that is, they could not be included in the number of satanists.

                  Somehow, in the mid-zero, I read in the Russian newspaper that Trotsky, Dzerzhinsky, and I still do not remember who, were parked on the island of Sviyazh. An argument arose - to whom should I erect a monument, Satan, or Judah? They decided that Judas is closer to the working class.
                  1. +2
                    29 March 2020 16: 20
                    You still tell nonsense of a light magazine.
                    1. +2
                      29 March 2020 16: 22
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      You still tell nonsense of a light magazine.

                      It was nonsense from the Russian newspaper. With a photo of the foundation of the monument. "Judas Iscariot".
                  2. 0
                    29 March 2020 17: 04
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    An argument arose - to whom should I erect a monument, Satan, or Judah?

                    You can do it when you want (I mean a competent comment)
  35. 0
    29 March 2020 13: 21
    My dad and mom talking about the demolitions of temples, dispossession and black craters in the 30s always said that the Bolsheviks are a drunken sailor who expelled and killed many intelligentsia .. i.e. no matter how the bourgeois exploited the proletarians, but the people's memory remembers precisely the injustice and atrocities of the Reds
    1. +2
      29 March 2020 13: 28
      Injustice and atrocities were on both sides, but the Bolsheviks did not kill women and children, unlike the whites.
      1. +4
        29 March 2020 14: 45
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        Bolsheviks did not kill women and children

        Even as they killed!
        1. +1
          29 March 2020 14: 56
          Please provide examples. Desirable with links to sources.
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 15: 40
            I had two articles here about the executions of priests and nuns. It can be found in a search engine or through a profile. There were links to sources.
            1. 0
              29 March 2020 15: 56
              The death penalty, in some cases a woman could get, but never a child.
              1. +1
                29 March 2020 16: 26
                Use the Internet ...
    2. +5
      29 March 2020 13: 32
      What a one-sided "national memory" you have. And the wife's great-grandmother was white, in front of the whole village they quartered, because she did not renounce her son, who had gone to the red.
      1. +2
        29 March 2020 15: 23
        The Reds made many terrible mistakes, killed many intellectuals, dispossessed many who built their households with their labor, shot a lot of innocents in the 30s, and made famine. All these events overshadowed the crimes of the whites and the arrogance of the bourgeoisie under the king. The civil war is scary .. And it turns out the red are bad, the white are bad, the USSR is bad, tsarism is bad, and today's capitalism is bad too .. some kind of solid negative in history if we take into account the attitude of the authorities towards the people (at any time in our country). How, in such a situation, not to be enemies to each other within our society, but to become a monolithic organism?
    3. +5
      29 March 2020 13: 46
      Quote: Incompetent
      popular memory remembers just the injustice and atrocities of the Reds

      Do not scribble rubbish.
  36. +6
    29 March 2020 13: 34
    First dismantled the bell. They removed the fasteners, and he remained hanging on one rope. All workers refused to do this. We started looking for a volunteer. One local alcoholic called out for three quarters of vodka (9 liters, not bad, however!).
    V.Olegovich, you are a historian, and some stories are poisoning you.
    ,,, August 1923, at the request of the Regional Executive Committee, crosses and a dome were removed from the church, the 800-pound cathedral bell was dropped from the bell tower, and in the summer of 1934 the building was demolished.
    GAPO F. r-877 op 1 d. 551 l. 71
    Dvorzhansky A.I. The history of the Penza diocese. Book One: Historical Background. Penza 1999.
    1. 0
      29 March 2020 14: 46
      You read the article inattentively ...
      1. +4
        29 March 2020 14: 48
        since there is no official information, it is replaced by rumors,,, are you talking about this?
        1. -1
          29 March 2020 15: 42
          Exactly! Everything about the bell, 9 liters and so on - from the "popular rumor". From some Penza local history site. I didn’t come up with all this ...
  37. +4
    29 March 2020 13: 46
    About Shpakovsky's religious fantasies

    It's great that the cathedrals are now being restored. We can’t do anything without them now. Schools closed, hospitals closed ... Cathedrals, just what you need for impoverished people ...

    Why in the 30s demolished the church?

    In the 30s sharply decreased religious activity of Soviet people. The working people went to schools, institutes, theaters, libraries, as a result, most of the churches were left without parishioners, there was nothing to pay taxes from, so it was decided to close such churches, and to remove them without architectural value.

    But they were demolished only after the decisions of the architectural commissions, which evaluated their historical and artistic value. The commission also included pre-revolutionary architects. Demolished churches, which were typical, and those in Russia were built tens of thousands, almost like Khrushchev.

    For example, St. Basil’s Church in Moscow, and similar masterpieces: St. Isaac’s Cathedral in Leningrad, the Stroganov Church in Gorky, no one demolished, because they really had architectural value.

    Why didn't the people protest against the demolition of churches?

    Yes, because in the 30s. the working people remembered the whole counterrevolutionary essence of the clergy, therefore they did not bother at the blown up cathedrals at that time. This is today, the victorious bourgeoisie, in order to keep the people in obedience, again it took religion. Here her servants write about the innocent ministers of worship and the destroyed churches.

    And in conclusion, in order to understand what religion really was for the common people, I will cite two quotes from the classics of Marxism.

    “Religious squalor is at the same time an expression of real squalor and a protest against this real squalor. Religion is the sigh of an oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is a spirit of soulless orders. Religion is the opium of the people. "
    Marx K. On the criticism of the Hegelian philosophy of law. - Marx K., Engels F. SS, T. 1. Ed. 2 .-- S. 219-368.

    “Religion is the opium of the people, - this dictum of Marx is the cornerstone of the whole worldview of Marxism in the question of religion. Marxism always considers all modern religions and churches, all and all sorts of religious organizations, as organs of bourgeois reaction, serving to defend the exploitation and intoxicate the working class. ”
    IN AND. Lenin. On the attitude of the workers' party to religion. - PSS., 5th ed., T. 17. - S. 415-426.
    1. +3
      29 March 2020 14: 48
      But what then Zyuganov and others with him overshadow themselves with the banner of the cross? Spit them, therefore on Lenin with Karla Marx?
      1. +2
        29 March 2020 15: 04
        And where did you get the idea that the Communist Party, is the Communist Party, in fact?
        1. +2
          29 March 2020 15: 44
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          And where did you get the idea that the Communist Party, is the Communist Party, in fact?

          Communist Party - The Communist Party of the Russian Federation. Here with this!
          1. +7
            29 March 2020 16: 01
            Different things can be written on the fence, we have the same thing in the constitution that we have a social state, the church is separate from the state, medicine is free, and much more is written. The point is not in words, but in what is behind them.
            1. +1
              29 March 2020 16: 24
              What interests me is not the fence inscriptions, but the party’s program ... in this case, the Communist Party.
              1. +5
                29 March 2020 16: 31
                Read its program, it is not Marxist, it is an ordinary petty-bourgeois party.
                1. 0
                  29 March 2020 18: 08
                  So they can be baptized ... I see ...
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Read its program, it is not Marxist, it is an ordinary petty-bourgeois party.

                  Why, then, the Communist Party?
      2. +5
        29 March 2020 15: 06
        Quote: kalibr
        But what then Zyuganov and others with him overshadow themselves with the banner of the cross? Spit them, therefore on Lenin with Karla Marx?

        And Zyuganov is the same shifter as you are.
        1. +1
          29 March 2020 15: 22
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          And Zyuganov is the same shifter as you are.

          I think that everything is not so simple there, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is a parliamentary party, with its own cockroaches. For some reason it seems to me. what if they wrote in the charter about the dictatorship of the proletariat, etc. then the very next day it would have been recognized as an "extremist organization."
          1. +2
            29 March 2020 15: 35
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            For some reason it seems to me. what if they wrote in the charter about the dictatorship of the proletariat, etc. then the very next day it would have been recognized as an "extremist organization."

            It didn't work in the 90s. They wrote about de-gravitization, but ... People were eating "free" apartments.
        2. -4
          29 March 2020 15: 55
          What do you generally understand about "sausage scraps"? You do not know from which side the door in the archive opens, but only there ... write comments. Over there you were offered a laborer ... Here's a hat for Senka !.
          1. +4
            29 March 2020 16: 05
            Quote: kalibr
            You were offered a laborer ... Here’s Senka and the hat !.

            Wow, I’m looking for a sausage in Kuibyshev. By the way, I remember your brother-in-law with Michman, where you advised him to do science.
            1. -2
              29 March 2020 16: 23
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: kalibr
              You were offered a laborer ... Here’s Senka and the hat !.

              Wow, I’m looking for a sausage in Kuibyshev. By the way, I remember your brother-in-law with Michman, where you advised him to do science.

              Well, yes, I’ve been looking for it in your native scoop. And now I make it to order and very tasty.
              1. +2
                29 March 2020 16: 26
                Quote: kalibr
                Well, yes, I’ve been looking for it in your native scoop. And now I make it to order and very tasty.

                Who is Dante in the twelfth circle of hell? Try on yourself, citizen Shpakovsky.
                1. +1
                  29 March 2020 18: 02
                  Do you want to assure me that you had the strength to master "all Dante"? Don't tell my slippers. Dante has only 9 laps, so there is no need to write about 12.
                  1. +2
                    29 March 2020 19: 33
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Dante has only 9 circles, so no need to write about 12.

                    Let nine, aren't you scared?
                    1. -2
                      29 March 2020 19: 47
                      That’s your trouble, Vladimir, that you heard a ringing, but you don’t know anything, and you confuse everything, but hurry to write. Smarter you still do not seem this way. You do not belong to decision-makers, therefore, that you write to me that it’s not ... the only difference is that I in any case get you and your kind, and you ... no, once, and you won’t prove anything to me ,two. I'm not used to listening to the poor and stupid, so you can’t even spoil my mood, three. On the contrary, I like to watch how ... my answers turn on.
                      Well, and under my good mood - there are so many comments sent to me, I’ll write to you that ... it’s not scary. Because I am a follower of the Pure Land sect and the Amida Buddha. And I believe that there are so many grains of sand on the sand by the river and in order to be saved it is enough to only have time to proclaim: Om mani padme hum, om mani padme hum! And you frighten me with some kind of ditch!
                      1. +4
                        29 March 2020 19: 58
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I'm not used to listening to the poor and stupid

                        So do not answer the poor and the stupid. Why are you so ... Today I was walking from the store, there is a disabled person, "Please, please ..."
              2. +3
                29 March 2020 19: 56
                Vyacheslav Olegovich, minus mine. You are an intelligent and cultured person, and repeats all vulgarism. Agree that the scoop sounds at least vulgar and insulting.
                No smart person will begin to insult passers-by, it is harmful to health, but why say this?
                1. -4
                  29 March 2020 21: 05
                  Quote: Astra wild
                  You are an intelligent and cultured person, and repeats all vulgarism.

                  Dear Astra! What did Marx write? "Nothing human is alien to me!" So many human vices are not alien to me. I fight with them, and then sometimes I think. And nafig? How much can you ... talk stupid stupid. Doesn't get it. You say ... it comes right away, ha ha! I don't like it when people write nonsense. And then, the more comments, the better. So once you answer me everything.
      3. +1
        29 March 2020 22: 39
        Quote: kalibr
        But what then Zyuganov and others with him overshadow themselves with the banner of the cross? Spit them, therefore on Lenin with Karla Marx?

        If you read the inscription on the elephant’s cage: buffalo, do not believe your eyes. So on Zyuganov, if he writes somewhere that he is a communist - do not believe him.
    2. +3
      29 March 2020 16: 03
      Quote: Alexander Green
      Schools closed, hospitals closed

      I don’t know a single closed school in Penza. And hospitals ... Was in the Soviet era in Chembar near Penza. And I had to go with my daughter to treat a tooth in the hospital there. One-story hut and ... all accordingly. Recently I was there: a multi-story hospital, ambulances ... all the most modern, no worse than in our regional center. Drove into the Settlement - a new multi-story hospital. Not worse than the city. In Penza, a beautiful perinatal center, a cardiocenter, was built, where they perform operations that were not dreamed of in the scoop. All this is on the Internet, you can check ... In each district center a swimming pool is built. And in Penza ... you don’t know where to swim!
      1. +7
        29 March 2020 16: 09
        Quote: kalibr
        I don’t know a single closed school in Penza. And the hospitals ...

        You look in the area, they do not close, they optimize. If the state of the school built as much as churches, or at least workshops, gyms for schools, there have not been a gym in the village for 20 years now.
        1. -2
          29 March 2020 16: 19
          I worked in a rural school for 3 years from 77 to 80 years. Of the 3 surrounding villages, children converged to study on foot over 5 km. Or they were brought in the winter on an open tractor drag on straw. Now they are carrying a bus and the road has become a carriageway ... And building schools in empty villages is unreasonable ...
          1. +4
            29 March 2020 16: 26
            The trouble is that the villages are empty, and the quality of school education ... can not be compared with 1980. I never thought that I would remember with such warmth that time.
            1. -4
              29 March 2020 17: 57
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              and the quality of school education ... since 1980 can not be compared.

              Has it gotten worse?
              1. +4
                29 March 2020 18: 15
                It has become disgusting.
                1. -4
                  29 March 2020 19: 15
                  Are you a teacher, university teacher, or are you using rumors? I have worked in the education system for 40 years and have been involved in it until the last. In VS from 1982 to 2017, and I can’t say so categorically. I would say that it has become more consistent with the challenges of the time. And by the way, aren't people with a wonderful soviet education just about ... whether the USSR?
                  1. +4
                    29 March 2020 21: 18
                    I am the father of four students, the eldest is 9kl. graduated, is already studying at a technical school. So, I took all four of them from a rural school for family education, I teach using old Soviet textbooks (Pchelko - Polyak, Kiselev, etc. before the reform of the 70s) The difference between old and modern textbooks is very indicative. For example, addition to the column used to be taught in the 4th grade, i.e. after thousands, mine now freely add and subtract three-digit numbers in their mind (end of the second grade), and at school they taught the addition table (yes, there is now such). They learned to read with pleasure in a year. Look at how the textbooks of the elementary grades "correspond to the challenges of the time," it turns out that Vladimir the Baptist built churches, hospitals and schools, and Princess Olga RULES in Russia. The fact that the church is merging with the state is a very alarming trend. And in secondary school, they no longer teach fundamental knowledge, now they teach competencies.
                    1. -3
                      29 March 2020 21: 45
                      My granddaughter is also studying at a college, a Moscow college at the University. Witte (the branch) and I am generally pleased with how they are taught, although fool teachers are found everywhere. This is unconditional. And there are many mistakes in the textbooks, this is also true. But there is also the Internet. There are additional courses. Everything is ... By the way, competence is a very good thing. Allows you to quickly assess the preparedness of a student or student. Again, I had a series of articles on modern higher education here. You can go through the profile, find read ...
                      1. +3
                        29 March 2020 22: 24
                        Moscow College at the University. Witte is apparently very different from a small rural school.
                      2. -4
                        30 March 2020 07: 44
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        apparently very different from a low-grade rural school.

                        Apparently, yes. But there have always been those who should rake out from under the cows, and those who manage them. So it was in the USSR.
                      3. 0
                        31 March 2020 14: 17
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Apparently, yes. But there have always been those who should rake out from under the cows, and those who manage them. So it was in the USSR.

                        Do you think that segregation in education is right? This was not so in the USSR. There were, of course, better schools and worse schools, but the difference between them was not as great as this hour.
                      4. 0
                        31 March 2020 15: 11
                        I believe that the student’s abilities decide everything. And the one who has them, it does not matter whether he is a peasant or an urban peasant, should have the best education. And stupid, with low intelligence, victims of a drunken conception ... to teach them, only wasting money.
                      5. 0
                        31 March 2020 15: 38
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I believe that the student’s abilities decide everything. And the one who has them, it does not matter whether he is a peasant or an urban peasant, should have the best education. And stupid, with low intelligence, victims of a drunken conception ... to teach them, only wasting money.

                        Partly you are right, of course, the Internet helps a lot. The great trouble, in my opinion, is that the educational function was taken away from schools. Parents usually work 12 hours a day, get tired, and the children are left to their own devices, not everyone has enough time and energy for the children. And yet, I come to the conclusion that the state does not need educated people in large numbers, they have nowhere to go, nowhere to work. It is enough that a person could take an iPhone on credit and work as a security guard. Look at the data on patents, the difference between China, Russia, the United States is very significant. This is a bad trend.
                      6. 0
                        April 1 2020 19: 00
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        The great trouble, in my opinion, is that the educational function was taken away from schools.

                        Alexei! How was it taken? My granddaughter is happy, I don’t know how, that school education ended, that in college no one is being pulled! All the time brought up, her-her !!!
                      7. 0
                        April 1 2020 19: 02
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Look at the data on patents, the difference between China, Russia, the United States is very significant. This is a bad trend.

                        This is a bad trend! I agree. But ... I defended my dissertation on the party leadership of the SRWS in the USSR in the 10th Five-Year Plan. And I know this very well. And ... all the roots are from there! But you can’t explain it. You can find and read this dissertation on the Internet.
                  2. +3
                    30 March 2020 01: 23
                    I would say that it has become more consistent with the challenges of the time
                    The main thing "it" corresponds to is creating a well-managed herd. And the way the epic with the virus shows is still not very good.
                    And about these "challenges" mentioned by all, can you name at least a few?
                    1. -1
                      30 March 2020 07: 42
                      Quote: Undecim
                      And about these "challenges" mentioned by all, can you name at least a few?

                      A lot of them. Therefore, I’d better write about the answers to them. First of all, this is the ability to find information, interpret it, and on its basis draw conclusions and build a line of behavior. I’m watching how my daughter is doing this professionally, as my granddaughter does in college. I am satisfied.
                      1. +2
                        30 March 2020 08: 14
                        First of all, this is the ability to find information yourself, interpret it, and on its basis to draw conclusions and build a line of poetry.
                        Yes, only the line should be directed in the right direction.
                        As for the foregoing, this was taught to me forty years ago in a provincial Soviet educational institution, moreover, not only in relation to myself.
                      2. -1
                        30 March 2020 09: 18
                        Quote: Undecim
                        then I was taught this forty years ago in a provincial Soviet educational institution, moreover, not only in relation to myself.

                        I can only say that you are lucky. Because in my pedyushnik they taught me something completely different. And when I finished it I knew English worse than after my special school, but I knew how to teach it!
                      3. +1
                        30 March 2020 09: 33
                        There was no teaching of foreign languages ​​in Soviet educational institutions, there is no arguing here. True, there were special schools, but this did not affect the general situation, therefore, in the questionnaires about knowledge of foreign languages, the option was: "I read and translate with a dictionary." So I just had such skills. Then life forced me to improve myself.
                  3. -2
                    30 March 2020 10: 14
                    Quote: kalibr
                    And by the way, aren't people with a wonderful soviet education just about ... whether the USSR?

                    What's wrong with that? For what 4 minuses? Is there any other kind of education in our country?
            2. +2
              29 March 2020 19: 43
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              The trouble is that the villages are empty, and the quality of school education ... can not be compared with 1980. I never thought that I would remember with such warmth that time.

              80 is our youth, and youth is always remembered with warmth, and if you look at today, you will remember the fairy tale with tears.
              1. -1
                29 March 2020 21: 07
                Quote: Astra wild
                80 is our youth, and youth is always remembered with warmth, and if you look at today, you will remember the fairy tale with tears.

                Well I do not know. Good is good, but I remember the bad too.
                1. +2
                  29 March 2020 21: 22
                  It was not necessary to idealize the Soviet Union, the same minuses were full, however, to compare with today's Russia as it is, but the language does not turn.
                  1. -3
                    29 March 2020 21: 48
                    Quote: aleksejkabanets
                    however, to compare with today's Russia like that, but the language does not turn.

                    And here I am turning and very good.
                    1. +4
                      29 March 2020 22: 59
                      I'm afraid the comparison is not in favor of today's Russia.
      2. +1
        29 March 2020 22: 50
        Quote: kalibr
        I don’t know a single closed school in Penza. And the hospitals ...

        And you look into the hinterland, where all schools were closed. Forgotten as a "caring" Medvedev offered to take children from the district to the regional center, where schools are still preserved, on school buses. And about hospitals. In my town. where I spent my childhood, there were about a dozen hospitals and a polyclinic built under Stalin in the difficult post-war period, now there is only one left.
        1. -1
          30 March 2020 07: 38
          Quote: Alexander Green
          In my city. where I spent my childhood, there were about a dozen hospitals and a polyclinic built under Stalin in the difficult post-war period, now I am left alone.

          It means more and is not necessary. Because demand creates supply. We now had a large maternity hospital and several maternity hospitals, so now we have just built a perinatal center for it. So you need ...
          1. +1
            30 March 2020 10: 33

            Here he is. Handsome man! This is if anyone really needs ...
            1. +1
              30 March 2020 12: 23
              Quote: kalibr
              Here he is. Handsome man! This is if anyone really needs.

              And how much does the treatment cost there? Is it really free?
              1. 0
                30 March 2020 16: 24
                Why ask stupid questions in the Internet age? You go to his site and that’s it. You can ask a question and get an answer.
                1. -3
                  31 March 2020 00: 12
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Why ask stupid questions in the Internet age?

                  Ltd! You are a true PR deceiver - they showed the building, but you hide prices. Surely sky-high, a simple hard worker can not afford.
                  1. 0
                    31 March 2020 11: 24
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Surely sky-high, a simple hard worker can not afford.
                    Reply

                    You press the computer buttons, you go to the website of the Penza Perinatal Center. Also, how you go to the VO site. Differences are only in the set of the address. And you don't have to guess right away, you just ask ... and they answer you. That's all. Why play "chamomile" here? And why should I hide something, when any idiot can go there, find out everything and ... lay it out here.
                  2. +1
                    31 March 2020 13: 50
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Why ask stupid questions in the Internet age?

                    Ltd! You are a true PR deceiver - they showed the building, but you hide prices. Surely sky-high, a simple hard worker can not afford.

                    I will continue, Alexander comments are bad. The fact is that children who are so difficult often get very serious problems, described by the Doctors in another article here on VO. And there have been cases worse (from friends). So trust in paid medicine under ??????????
                    (I wanted you +++++, but freezes, I will have to stop stop stop smiley another wanted
                    1. 0
                      31 March 2020 15: 41
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      comments go badly.

                      Why is it bad, Dmitry? Already 524! I have a good fellow businessman, whom I help with advertising copy. He is very interested in people management technologies. I bought all my books on this topic. But he is more interested in practice, of course. So we have a game with him. It is called "overclock to 100 and higher". That is, when I have an article, he invites me to argue for the comments. And I have the right only to answer to others. The term is a week. And we name the amount ... 100, 200, 300 ... And the amount from his side and the advertising material from mine (they are expensive!). When I agree, when I don't ... And he too. And this time we argued that there would be at least 250. And he bet a bet! Then he suggested that I bet 400, and I that it would be 500. And with your help Dmitry, and Green, and others ... I received these 500, and ... now I sit and rejoice! By the way, you can also try this "game" to play with your friends ... By the way, there will soon be more material on the topic of your favorite free medicine in the USSR. But I’m afraid I won’t promote it by 500.
              2. 0
                31 March 2020 13: 37
                Greetings, Alexander! I didn’t go to the sites of such centers, but among my friends someone turned and got the necessary results. I'm not talking about pay.
                Quote: Alexander Green
                Quote: kalibr
                Here he is. Handsome man! This is if anyone really needs.

                And how much does the treatment cost there? Is it really free?

                And about that - an article about the church. But it would not hurt to take an interest in the attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church to the services provided by them. Here the problem came out.
                Not the only negative laughing
          2. -1
            30 March 2020 12: 22
            Quote: kalibr
            It means more and is not necessary.

            Of course, why should the authorities treat ordinary people. Fart dies.
            1. -1
              30 March 2020 16: 33
              I have a friend, from the common people, even a fool in appearance, and she will open her mouth, a fool in a cube. She will have an operation (two) 150000 rubles. each one. And they will do it for free. And I was interested in the price because I wanted to know how much it costs for a fee. And where does my taxpayer money go? I found out ... So don't talk about the common people. If I were in power, I would do it: you smoke - you pay for 50% of the treatment, you drink - another 50% and a test for the degree of both at the first visit to the doctor. A degree of "ill health" is assigned for these two indicators and a payment for treatment is assigned for it. And there are no traces of alcohol and nicotine in the blood - you get treatment for free - the index "high social consciousness".
              1. +2
                30 March 2020 19: 47
                So I Vyacheslav Olegovich, it turns out, the ideal citizen! I drink, smoke and get paid for it. Moreover, my degree of civil liability significantly exceeds yours, because, in addition to taxes, I replenish the state budget by paying excise taxes on tobacco and alcohol.
                1. -1
                  30 March 2020 20: 24
                  Yes, Anton, you see how well our society is organized. But I don't care about myself, but about the welfare of people. You understand that smoking is harmful. Alcohol in large quantities is also not good. And if our Soviet state in the past was really socially oriented, it would long ago have followed this path. But it was not, and will not be ... So do what you want, but remember - "Truth in measure."
                  1. +1
                    30 March 2020 21: 07
                    Our society (with humanity in mind) is disgusting.
                2. +2
                  30 March 2020 20: 32
                  Greetings Anton! Have you introduced * self-isolation * in your city?
                  1. +2
                    30 March 2020 20: 41
                    Not entered, but the trend is not happy
                    1. +1
                      30 March 2020 21: 10
                      In the news, this information has passed. RIA * News *, * Medusa *, * Rambler *.
              2. +2
                31 March 2020 13: 59
                That's right, you can’t treat everyone for free!
                Especially, who eats fatty, salty, spicy, who is injured ----- are mostly to blame, also if poisoning, if you can think up this topic, many more doctors and hospitals can be optimized.

                Sarcasm-sssss
                1. 0
                  31 March 2020 15: 29
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  who is injured ----- mostly blame themselves

                  I know a woodworking workshop, they made a beautiful crate for me there, a terrace ... So all the workers ... drunkards, and some have two fingers on their hands. They work drunk! So I wouldn’t pay anything to them, that's for sure. Where does the workshop management look? And they come sober, and are recruited in the process. And you cannot put an overseer to them.
  38. +1
    29 March 2020 14: 59
    Vyacheslav Olegovich ...
    I read how the cathedral was destroyed, and could not resist tears. And I'm glad that Penza was lucky, almost restored, and what a handsome man! I don’t go to temples, but I love their architecture ... I painfully perceive the barbaric destruction of any work of art. For example, in Afghanistan, in Syria. And the looting of museums! Baghdad, Cairo ... They came to Cairo as to their home, they took what they needed according to the customer’s list, they destroyed the rest from the shelves and pedestals. I hate color revolutions.
    1. +1
      29 March 2020 15: 51
      Quote: depressant
      I read how the cathedral was destroyed, and could not resist tears. And I'm glad that Penza was lucky, almost restored, and what a handsome man! I don’t go to temples, but I love their architecture ...

      You know me too. Formerly a communist, from a family of communists, I understand, not a religious person at all. But ... I like churches and cathedrals. In them, the concept of man about beauty, some kind of grandeur. The mass of crimes at all times was committed in the name of God. But not by God, this is firstly, and secondly, whether he is or not, the temples created in his glory are beautiful, this is also respect for those who created them ... That's why I tried to photograph the cathedral from various unusual angles to show how beautiful he was and how beautiful he is now.
      1. +1
        29 March 2020 16: 22
        Thank you very much for the article! love
        1. +1
          29 March 2020 17: 52
          Glad you liked it. When the cathedral is ready, I’ll definitely write about this material and photograph everything properly. I promise.
  39. -1
    29 March 2020 16: 04
    As the impure force stirred, the demons were ready to get out of their skin. A difficult case for them, everything that was destroyed and destroyed again rises from the ruins as much as it hurts.
    1. +4
      29 March 2020 16: 16
      What, the union of Michael the Archangel woke up?
    2. +1
      29 March 2020 19: 17
      Post-Soviet Russia, by all positive indicators for the country and the people of -30 years old, is falling lower in comparison with the atheistic RSFSR.
  40. -1
    29 March 2020 16: 49
    The Bolsheviks, or rather militant atheists mixed with commies-careerists, began to blow up churches with a small mind and great stupidity, thereby laying another mine under Soviet power.
    In the rush worthy of a better application, the flapper commanders renamed everything that they could reach in the 90s.
    What unites these people besides unscrupulousness and meanness? The answer is simple - historical myopia and disrespect for the work of their ancestors.
    The power that begins its fulfillment with destruction is doomed.
    I think so.
    1. +1
      29 March 2020 17: 03
      Quote: WayKhe Thuo
      I think so.

      I’m afraid it’s still harmful for you, learn a little more.
      1. -1
        29 March 2020 17: 56
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        I’m afraid it’s still harmful for you, learn a little more.

        By the way, Alexey, he's right. Break not build. The people who usually come to power in our country are far from wise and most often forget that "you cannot swing the pendulum strongly." Although all at once, and success in patience! But there's nothing you can do about it. Every leadership is worthy of its people. What kind of people are, such are their bosses!
        1. +4
          29 March 2020 18: 21
          Yes to break, not to build. However, they would not have broken the old system, had not built a new one, and we are still using the achievements of the USSR.
          1. -3
            29 March 2020 19: 11
            They wanted to live - that was necessary. There was no alternative to nuclear war, so I had to give up ...
          2. -3
            29 March 2020 20: 00
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            and we still use the achievements of the USSR.

            But Popov came up with a radio, and Mendeleev’s vodka ...
        2. -1
          29 March 2020 19: 14
          Stupid expression. For the last 100 years the Russian people have had power over the Romanovs, communists, enemies of the communists. And which of these authorities is worthy of the Russian people?
          1. +1
            29 March 2020 21: 09
            Quote: tatra
            And which of these authorities is worthy of the Russian people?

            All that he had. Even Georgy Valentinovich Plekhanov in his work "On the Role of the Personality in History" considered this issue so well that Lenin later referred to this very work of his.
            1. +1
              29 March 2020 21: 57
              It is irrational. And all the 100 years after the October Revolution, two peoples live on the territory of the USSR - the Soviet and the anti-Soviet, radically different in mentality, intellect, priorities, attitude to their country and people, the history of their country, great people and real heroes of their country. Including the fact that the Soviet people have always been proud and proud of what they did after the October Revolution useful with their work and their attitude towards their country, and the anti-Soviet people, 30 years after the capture of the country, cowardly rejected responsibility for the capture of the country, and from that that he did after the capture, and is only proud of what he HAD at the expense of other people's labor, at the expense of his country.
              1. 0
                30 March 2020 07: 32
                You first read Plekhanov, and only then ...
      2. +1
        30 March 2020 01: 19

        I’m afraid it’s still harmful for you, learn a little more.


        The old habit is not to respond to small trolls, therefore this is not an answer, but an explanation:
        1. The basis of the foundations of any state is the continuity of the historical canvas, for whatever ancestors would be, they are ours. Without them, we would not have existed, not only from a biological point of view, but also from material and technical.
        2. As soon as they begin to tear pieces out of the history of the Fatherland and say it was right, we will sing it and praise it in every way, but it was not right, we will keep silent or denigrate - wait for the trouble, the state will begin to burst at the seams.
        3. What follows from paragraphs 1 and 2? Well, everything is simple. Firstly, the ban on the demolition of any structures of the "old government" for ideological reasons. Secondly, an extremely restrained policy regarding the recognition of the "crimes" of the Republic of Ingushetia, the USSR or the Russian Federation - if this was done, then that was the point. Thirdly, any discussions on historical topics within your country should be open and accessible. In practice, this means, for example, that the people from Dozhd, who raised a well-known question regarding the defense of Leningrad, should not have been spread rot, but drawn out for public discussion. Any controversial issue must be discussed openly, honestly, with facts on hand, for any silence leads to completely unnecessary mythologization, which our ideological enemies will use to the full extent. A vivid example of this is Solzhenitsyn, with his famous fairy tale, in which truth and outright lies are heavily mixed, gave rise to the foundation upon which the arguments of the Soviet dissent were built (not to be mentioned by night).

        That is why I consider the demolition of the temples by the Soviet authorities a great historical stupidity. I strongly suspect that someone very, very clever intentionally started all this mess, so that with the help of commies-mines and careerists lay an ideological bomb, which safely exploded in the late 80s, making another hole in a ship called the USSR .
        I think so.
        1. +3
          30 March 2020 17: 20
          First of all, I ask you to excuse me, for an unintentionally harsh comment, I would know how to fix it, I would fix it, it's all the fault of minor everyday circumstances. As for the essence of the issue, then, yes, indeed, there were some "excesses", although the bulk of the churches were demolished after the ROC refused from religious buildings. Today it is easy for us to judge our ancestors for certain mistakes, but they lived in completely different historical realities. May God let us not experience what they experienced. Today, personally, I am very worried about the merging of the church with the state, I think that except for trouble it will bring nothing.
          1. +1
            30 March 2020 19: 21
            I have no complaints.
            But I do not blame our ancestors, but rather note that there were communists, but there were commies. For example, a communist, this is the main character of the film of the same name, and commies are all the center perestroika and almost the entire composition of the Federation Council together with Radiant.
            I agree with you that it’s easy for us, from a well-fed and comfortable place, to talk about the mistakes of people who went through the First World War and the Civil War, who built a new, unprecedented state of workers and peasants while constantly overcoming the resistance of ignorance, rudeness, bribery, envy, standing up on paths of squealing and stupid careerism. How many honest, decent, bright people, true communists have laid their heads in this struggle - a bright memory for them.
            But there were mistakes, including strategic ones - somewhere out of thought, and somewhere not mistakes at all, but precisely calculated sabotage. And we must discuss all this in order to somehow increase the meager likelihood that such things will not be repeated in the future.
            As for the merger of the church with the state - I am absolutely sure that it is happening and will continue in the future, and the matter here is not so much in the mantras about the unnecessaryness of a competent population - this is to some extent a critical excess, the situation is worse - we have a catastrophic ideological crisis. At the same time, everyone understands this both in the authorities and in the localities, but they can’t do anything yet - you just can’t give birth to an ideology, you need to suffer it. Therefore, the government is trying to find at least some ideological support and the church in this case fits very well, while perfectly fitting into the side that suffered during the USSR.
            I think so.
        2. +1
          30 March 2020 17: 33
          "" someone very, very smart deliberately started all this chaos "I agree with you - quite plausibly. The site contained works by Samsonov about Trotsky and those who stood behind him. It is quite possible that those people: they were like the Russian people a bundle of straw or a bundle of firewood from a satanic fire.
          In my opinion, Samsonov has a lot of dubious to say the least, but I liked his work about Gapon and Trotsky. They show who could have started this and why. My opinion, but how others think I don’t know
    2. 0
      29 March 2020 19: 34
      In Europe, for example, on religion for a long time and live perfectly
  41. +8
    29 March 2020 19: 35
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, but doesn’t it seem to you that the story about 9 liters of alcohol is like a fairy tale?
    1) How did they raise the bell: by crane or did the priest go out to the square and let's shout: drunks, put three vodka if you raise the bell? He was lifted with the help of collars and a long string. Similarly, it could be omitted.
    2) You say: "It was a shock for all the cadets," but who said that, the cadets themselves? Then all the cadets were Komsomol members, and the then Komsomol members were all atheists.
    Please, listen less to fantasies.
    And another question: how do the dioceses know that the cathedral was destroyed in August 1934? You yourself said that the temple was closed in 1923, it is unlikely that the church authorities recorded by month: January, whole, February, yes, March, here it is in place, etc. You should know that then the whole church was proceeded, whether it is good or not I can not judge, then they were not up to fixed when the temple was destroyed
    1. 0
      29 March 2020 19: 58
      Quote: Astra wild
      Please, listen less to fantasies.
      And another question: how do the dioceses know that the cathedral was destroyed in August 1934? You yourself said that the temple was closed in 1923, it is unlikely that the church authorities recorded by month: January, whole, February, yes, March, here it is in place, etc. You should know that then the whole church was proceeded, whether it is good or not I can not judge, then they were not up to fixed when the temple was destroyed

      Oh, what good questions. But ... there is a department of public relations of the Penza Diocese ... There is a site for the diocese, there is a site for Penza local historians. All this ... from there, word for word, it is only passed through Advego Plagiatus so that there is novelty. You yourself, in principle, can go to our sites and read the same thing. Only my photos are really here. This is purely journalistic work: I went, found, asked, looked, wrote. You could write exactly the same article, only without such photos.
      1. -1
        30 March 2020 16: 56
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for your high appreciation of my capabilities. Women are conceited, you know it yourself, and I am the same. But with all my vanity, I NEVER experienced graphomania.
        If I had to write an article ('anything can happen in life) I would ..... I DON'T KNOW how to write, but I know exactly how I didn’t do it: to emphasize that it was evil Bolsheviks who came and let's destroy the temple, and God was protecting. You are an intelligent person and can write without accent if you want.
        1. -2
          30 March 2020 18: 30
          Quote: Astra wild
          You are an intelligent person and will be able, if you want, to write without emphasis.

          What for? Look at 460 comments. This is the best quality indicator of online journalism. The second is the number of clicks. This is worse. I’m not writing for the sake of graphomania, Astra. But the work is like that. And any work must be done correctly and well.
    2. +4
      29 March 2020 20: 28
      Quote: Astra wild

      Vyacheslav Olegovich, but doesn’t seem to you .......

      Bravo, Sepybrinka hon!
    3. 0
      30 March 2020 21: 35
      Quote: Astra wild
      Then all the cadets were Komsomol members, and then the Komsomol members were all atheists.

      When our girls went to Germany to work with the Fritz, they believed that they were all corrupted Komsomol members. But the survey showed that more than 90% ... remained innocent, and even many Komsomol members had ... crosses. So there must have been atheists, of course, but ... not ALL!
  42. +4
    29 March 2020 20: 03
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: kalibr
    But what then Zyuganov and others with him overshadow themselves with the banner of the cross? Spit them, therefore on Lenin with Karla Marx?

    And Zyuganov is the same shifter as you are.

    Zyuganov only calls himself a communist, but in reality he is a right-wing social democrat
  43. +2
    29 March 2020 20: 49
    Quote: Astra wild
    Zyuganov only calls himself a communist, but in reality he is a right-wing social democrat

    Left social democrat, but never a communist.
    1. -1
      29 March 2020 21: 11
      It is clear, They all can be baptized with both right and left. Only true communists cannot be baptized. Got it! Thank!
    2. +1
      30 March 2020 16: 21
      So he was evaluated by Nina Andreeva
  44. -1
    30 March 2020 08: 22
    Our Bolsheviks so diligently blew up churches that in Moscow there is still nowhere to spit from them. The most important thing is that the vast majority of these same churches did not deserve anything else, simply because while the state financed the church, there was still money for maintenance. And for the believers themselves, the church is not some sacred value, for them it’s just a utilitarian building, the city hall is the same as for the rest, today it is in the same building, tomorrow it occupies a floor in some complex, well, or a shopping center. And believers, if they have enough money to demolish and build new churches, like ordinary houses. On historical value, if any, they do not care.

    So I recommend less whining about the elimination of thousands of useless, collapsing objects. By the way, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior was originally built in such a place that it is easier to blow up and if you really want to rebuild it in another place, it is not surprising that nothing was built in its place afterwards. There the soil is such that nothing larger than a shed can be built.

    In modern Russia, those who call themselves EMNIP believers are 3 percent. So I recommend pouring out the joy of wasting people's money on another point of doing business for priests in another place. For the rest, any cult building will rather irritate. Well, on whose money is it built? Have the parishioners gathered and chipped in? In a glass "to the temple" collected.

    The last time I went to church was at the end of 2018, aunt December 29. suddenly died, on the 31st there was a funeral, in general, a funeral service. What's in the church? A pair of evil grandmothers who can only frantically prayer mumble and run into those who were not lucky enough to be there. My brother then was indignant for a long time, they say what the hell they poked him, that he should be afraid of something in his father’s house. Actually this is the maximum that the church can offer now. It is not surprising that even believers who are at least a little familiar with Christianity at the Russian Orthodox Church and everything that it does, look extremely disapproving.
    1. 0
      30 March 2020 09: 23
      You did not say anything new. Luther, Gus, and many others wrote the same thing about the church in the past. However, she is worth it. No matter what. That is, church and faith are something different. But as long as there is faith ... there will be a church.
      1. +1
        30 March 2020 09: 52
        The church will be, while there will be money for it. I don’t want religious institutions to be built for my money. Well, unlike Gus, who is known to have finished, although he was invited to guarantee security, I have nothing to fear. Since God allowed the temples to explode, then he did not need them. But in our country the church considers itself more important than God and knows better what God wants. She is even ready to interpret the Bible, the word of God.
        1. -1
          30 March 2020 10: 10
          Quote: EvilLion
          But in our country the church considers itself more important than God and knows better what God wants.

          And this, of course, is bad. And it is obvious that the reform of the church is long overdue. But who will take it?
          1. +1
            30 March 2020 10: 19
            As they say here in Tatarstan: "Allah does not see under the roof." There is no religion in which God would not be considered as some kind of peasant up there, with the same peasant mentality and who can be deceived like a peasant, or somehow come to an agreement with him. And in general, how are you going to reform? Do you know better than God how to serve him? If there is a God, then he rather launched the Universe as a self-playing computer game (there are some) and simply watches what is happening. Actually a typical myth, when a certain god becomes bored, and he throws a challenge to mortals, and God in this case is always honest, and if a mortal wins, he recognizes this, despite all his power, otherwise the Game loses its meaning for himself.
            1. -2
              30 March 2020 10: 25
              Well, you can come up with a new faith. "Machinism" Let God be a supercomputer that answers any questions. Machines are his ispostases, "typists" are nuns, monks "machinists", "programmers" are priests. The symbol is a gear, a cross is inscribed in it, and four crescents ...
              1. +1
                30 March 2020 10: 28
                If you thought that I would immediately answer "42", then you are right.
                1. -1
                  30 March 2020 11: 44
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  "42"

                  I do not understand, sorry ...
                  1. +1
                    30 March 2020 12: 08
                    See The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
                    You can still remember WH40k with his tech priests, but I am not special in Waha.
                    1. -1
                      30 March 2020 15: 59
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      See The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
                      You can still remember WH40k with his tech priests, but I am not special in Waha.

                      I don’t even know what you are talking about. In this area I am full 0.
          2. I
            0
            30 March 2020 11: 42
            ,, It is obvious that the reform of the church is long overdue. ,,

            You are a funny person. How many reformers like you in hell can’t be counted. And the church, as it has been unchanged, will remain forever and ever.
            1. -1
              30 March 2020 11: 46
              Why is it funny? Henry VIII created the Anglican Church, Luther - the Protestant, Calvin - the Calvinist ... I do not propose myself ...
              1. I
                -1
                30 March 2020 11: 57
                ,, Henry VIII created the Anglican Church, Luther - the Protestant, Calvin - the Calvinist. ,,

                The Orthodox Church is of apostolic origin. And the Church cannot be two, thirds, four, etc. The church is one like God. Therefore, no matter who creates it, it will be ridiculous, and it will not be a church, but a parody.
                1. -1
                  30 March 2020 12: 12
                  Among all Christian churches, Orthodox is not even the largest. Go to the Pope explain that he leads the wrong church. Or the Queen of Great Britain, she is there in the Anglican chapter.
                2. 0
                  30 March 2020 16: 02
                  Quote: it's me
                  Therefore, no matter who creates it, it will be ridiculous, and it will not be a church, but a parody.

                  Nevertheless, Protestant, Anglican, and Calvinist churches exist or did exist. There is Mormonism, also created by a very specific person, and much more. And God did not express his disapproval of these churches.
                  1. I
                    -1
                    30 March 2020 16: 47
                    ,, Nevertheless, Protestant, and Anglican, and Calvinist churches exist ,,

                    They may call themselves anything they like, but they are not a church.
                    We celebrate the foundation of the Church on the Day of the Holy Trinity. Pentecost. Then there was the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles in the form of fire. That is, the Church is a divine creation, not a human one.
                    And the Church is not only bishops, elders and clergy, but also all believers.
                    1. -1
                      30 March 2020 17: 13
                      Quote: it's me
                      They may call themselves anything they like, but they are not a church.

                      They would not agree with you ... And since there are many of them, and there are many people behind them, who knows who is to the right?
                      1. I
                        -2
                        30 March 2020 17: 59
                        ,, They would not agree with you .. ,,

                        I have no doubt about that


                        ,, since there are a lot of them, and there are many people behind them, who knows who is to the right ?,

                        The true Church is known by the saints.
                        Let them show something like Seraphim of Sarov. Or Optinsky Elders. Or Matrona of Moscow. Or Sergius of Radonezh. Or etc ...
                      2. -2
                        30 March 2020 18: 26
                        I was in Cyprus in the Church of St. Lazarus, stood by his relics, held my hand over his skull, but felt nothing. And I traveled a lot of all kinds of Cypriot churches (very beautiful, I liked them very much, in my opinion they are more beautiful than ours) and monasteries with miraculous icons and relics, was in cave churches and the cave-monastery of St. Thekla, from which all our Orthodox Church went , but ... everything is there the same as ours. "Pay and Fly!"
                      3. I
                        +1
                        30 March 2020 18: 59
                        ,, Pay and fly ,,

                        Everyone sees the measure of their corruption



                        ,, Message to Titus. Chapter 1, Art. fifteen
                        For the pure, everything is clean; but for the defiled and unfaithful there is nothing pure, but their mind and conscience are defiled too. ,,
                      4. -2
                        30 March 2020 21: 30
                        Quote: it's me
                        Everyone sees the measure of their corruption

                        Exactly! But I have never really seen anything pure. At least a little dirt, but there is on each. But the Lord ordered the forgiveness of sinners, for you will not judge and you will not be judged.
                      5. I
                        -1
                        31 March 2020 08: 37
                        ,, Although a little dirt, but there is on each. ,,

                        Read the gospel. Christ is sinless and without dirt.
                      6. 0
                        31 March 2020 08: 50
                        I tell you about people, you tell me about Christ ... Something with eyes?
                      7. I
                        -1
                        31 March 2020 08: 55
                        And our faith, the faith of people? Why do you need people? Christ is also a full-fledged man, even though God.
                      8. 0
                        31 March 2020 10: 24
                        And then faith? How many people believe and go to church, and immediately curse their neighbors. And they don’t wipe their feet ... But on Christ, since he is a full-fledged person, there was also enough dirt. He walked barefoot ...
                      9. I
                        0
                        31 March 2020 13: 33
                        ,, He walked barefoot ... ,,

                        ... by sea aki by land
                      10. 0
                        31 March 2020 15: 13
                        Quote: it's me
                        by sea aki by land

                        Only the sea and walked? And the cross, too, dragged along the sea to the mountain?
                      11. I
                        0
                        April 1 2020 07: 51
                        ,, Only by the sea and walked? And the cross, too, dragged along the sea to the mountain ?,


                        Christ resorted to divine power as necessary. And He carried the cross as a man and suffered as a man. This was necessary to save the human race. But he rose on the third day, for death has no power over God.
                      12. 0
                        April 1 2020 08: 38
                        So your legs were dirty and in vain did you write about walking through the sea ...
                      13. I
                        0
                        31 March 2020 13: 55
                        And what about people here? Faith in Christ the Savior. I do not understand. If, for example, I need to save my soul, then no one will help except Jesus Christ.
                        Well, they gossip, condemn, maybe even steal and kill. So what?
                      14. 0
                        31 March 2020 15: 15
                        Quote: it's me
                        Well, they gossip, condemn, maybe even steal and kill. So what?

                        The fact that I do not like such believers. I, too, brothers and sisters in Christ ... Faith must exalt man. And if she does not exalt him, or exalts badly, then ... a reform of faith is inevitable. Got it at last?
                      15. I
                        0
                        31 March 2020 16: 52
                        Faith must save. The rest is from the evil one.
                        And the robber was the first to enter paradise. Aren't you confused by this fact?
                        Reformer laughing
                      16. 0
                        31 March 2020 17: 10
                        You are very, very straightforward, I would say. You can not do it this way. To save and exalt is one and the same. To exalt is to do better, cleaner, that is, to bring closer to salvation. Explain available?
                      17. I
                        0
                        31 March 2020 17: 57
                        Again came where we started. The church is of divine origin. Saves, exalts, etc. God.
                        And there is also an expression: ,, a slave is not a pilgrim,. That is, you can’t force anyone.
                      18. +1
                        31 March 2020 20: 01
                        I agree. Any church in which many people go has a divine origin for the people themselves are likenesses of God. And everything is going on according to his will, even hair, they say he won’t fall off his head. And here, by the way, you are a connoisseur like ... and the winds are letting out also by the will of God, or is man’s free will manifested here? And yet - a bunch from God or from the devil?
                      19. I
                        0
                        31 March 2020 21: 51
                        ,, people likeness of God ,,

                        You are wrong here. Created in the image, they must become likeness.


                        ,, And everything is going on according to his will, even hair, they say will not fall from his head ,,

                        They say that suicide is not committed without the permission (will) of God. According to statistics, one out of nine cases is only successful.

                        Well, by the way, you are a connoisseur like ... and the winds are also letting out by the will of God, or is man’s free will manifested here? And yet - a bunch from God or from the devil ?,

                        The fact is that man was created to live forever in paradise. But man could not fulfill one single commandment and became mortal and began to hurt (unpleasant smells and sounds appeared along with illnesses). Together with him, all nature was damaged. If earlier all the animals obeyed him and nature, at least, did no harm (frost, heat, hurricane, etc.), then after the fall, everything changed.
                      20. 0
                        April 1 2020 18: 52
                        Quote: it's me
                        After the fall, everything changed.

                        That is, a bunch by the will of the Lord? I'll know!
                      21. I
                        -1
                        April 5 2020 11: 42
                        In this case, cutting stupidity is of your own free will. Although no, just a weak psyche can not cope and you become inadequate. laughing
                      22. I
                        -1
                        April 5 2020 11: 54
                        And still not. It is demons that torment you. You are obsessed and write this crap by the will of the devil.
                      23. I
                        0
                        April 1 2020 08: 17
                        ,, And everything is going on according to his will, even hair, they say will not fall from his head ,,

                        I will reveal the secret of life and death. God takes away (sends death) a person when a person has reached the peak of his spiritual and moral perfection and his potential has been exhausted. And if a person still smokes the sky, then, accordingly, the potential of spiritual and moral development still exists.
                  2. +1
                    30 March 2020 16: 54
                    How do you think God can "express his attitude" towards certain things?
            2. +3
              30 March 2020 16: 50
              Quote: it's me
              ,, It is obvious that the reform of the church is long overdue. ,,

              You are a funny person. How many reformers like you in hell can’t be counted. And the church, as it has been unchanged, will remain forever and ever.

              Unfortunately, the Russian Orthodox Church today, like other well-known faiths, is essentially just a commercial organization, the main reason for their existence is to make money. The Russian Orthodox Church lost when, in a dispute, Neil Sorsky and Joseph Volotsky sided with Joseph Volotsky (a dispute between non-possessors and Josephians of the 15th century)
        2. I
          -1
          30 March 2020 11: 34
          ,, The church will be, while there will be money for it. I don’t want religious institutions to be built for my money. Well, unlike Gus, who is known to have finished, although he was invited to guarantee security, I have nothing to fear. Since God allowed the temples to explode, then he did not need them. But in our country the church considers itself more important than God and knows better what God wants. She is even ready to interpret the Bible, the word of God. ,,


          However, you do not know that the Christian Church in the first three centuries of its existence was subjected to severe persecution and at the same time not only survived, but also multiplied? According to the testimony of Christ Himself: ,, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it ,,. And you are talking about some money. It’s ridiculous.

          And the Gospel is included in the Tradition of the Church and It was written, and accordingly only the Church has the exclusive right to interpret. The rest is simply not given.
          1. +2
            30 March 2020 12: 11
            The revolutionaries in tsarist Russia were also persecuted.

            And you are talking about some money. It’s ridiculous.


            Well, that's what I'm talking about. Perfectly live without my money. And if the temple without state support is not being built, then the will of God.
            1. I
              -1
              30 March 2020 14: 05
              ,, The revolutionaries in tsarist Russia were also persecuted. ,,

              And not in vain, as history shows.


              ,, Well, so what am I talking about. Perfectly live without my money. And if a church cannot be built without state aid, then God's will.


              With your money, a corpse on Red Square contains a lot of monuments to this corpse and its accomplices.
          2. -3
            30 March 2020 12: 40
            Quote: it's me
            The Christian Church in the first three centuries of its existence was subjected to severe persecution

            Christians did not have churches then, there was only faith, with which the slaves reassured themselves that in this life they had to be tolerated, and in the afterlife we ​​went to heaven. Those in power, when they realized that with the help of the Christian religion it is possible to keep people in check, they headed this religion and made it state, it was then that they set up a bunch of churches to keep people under control.
            1. I
              0
              30 March 2020 12: 52
              ,, At that time, Christians did not have churches, there was only faith, which the slaves reassured themselves that in this life they must be tolerated, and in the afterlife in paradise,

              You can see that you are a complete ignoramus. Read at least the lives of the great martyrs George the Victorious, Catherine, Anastasia the Solvers, Demetrius of Solunsky, etc.
            2. -2
              30 March 2020 16: 07
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Christians did not have churches then, there was only faith

              There were, even as they were, bishops and prositters ... and there were all ranks and services. There are letters in the Bible to Joseph, the Athenians and others, where there is about it. That is, Christ did not even have time to die, as his followers immediately sprinkled with hierarchy, moreover, and this is the church.
              1. -1
                31 March 2020 00: 24
                Quote: it's me
                You can see that you are a complete ignoramus.

                Quote: kalibr
                immediately overgrown with hierarchy, moreover, and this is the church.


                Especially for the poor students of Shpakovsky and "that Ya-shki" who did not understand that I wrote in the commentary about churches in the sense of buildings (temples), and not about churches in the sense of religious concessions.

                Christian churches (churches), as special liturgical buildings, began to appear only after the end of persecution by the authorities. The first Christians did not have the right to build their own temples, so they had underground prayer houses, often built in caves, quarries, and catacombs.

                As the state religion, Christianity was first adopted in the Old Armenian state in 301.

                In the Roman Empire, Christianity began to acquire the status of a state religion under Emperor Constantine I after the Edict of Milan of 313 on freedom of religion.
                1. 0
                  31 March 2020 06: 34
                  Well, at least you learned to use Wikipedia, and that’s good! Have you already visited the site of the Penza perinatal center? Did you find out how much the services are there?
                  1. +1
                    31 March 2020 13: 36
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Did you find out how much the services are there?

                    What for? I have no money even to come to you in Penza.
                    1. -1
                      31 March 2020 20: 03
                      But they don’t take money for demand on the Internet. But you will not write that I am hiding something ... Do not be afraid to ask where I am sending you. Believe me, the sykav from this will not fall off, and knowledge will come!
                2. -1
                  31 March 2020 08: 02
                  You spell it wrong ... [quote = Alexander Green] [quote = it's me]
                  [quote = Alexander Green] who did not understand [/ quote]
                  When a person does not understand what is written, this means that he is stupid or inattentive, but not a double. Such things are not stupid to distinguish between!
                  1. +1
                    31 March 2020 13: 37
                    Quote: kalibr
                    When a person does not understand what is written, this means that he is stupid or inattentive, but not a double. Such things are not stupid to distinguish between!

                    All stupid - losers.
                    1. -1
                      31 March 2020 20: 09
                      Wrong statement again! It is analogous to the fact that all workers are drunkards, and truck drivers, without exception, sleep with "shoulder" ones. So it is here. There are also lazy ones. And it is said, by the way, that you are lazy, that means you are talented. And the hard workers carry water. Here you have no money to go to Penza, although there is no need. And I have enough of them every year for how many years have I been driving my whole family around Europe, and not staying in cheap campsites. And you can also play Forex if you again know when which stocks to buy and which to sell. I know...
                3. I
                  0
                  31 March 2020 08: 33
                  ,, which the slaves calmed themselves,

                  I wrote to you about the religion of slaves, that this is a lie. And that the rich and noble became Christians and voluntarily went to martyrdom.
                  1. 0
                    31 March 2020 13: 39
                    Quote: it's me
                    And that the rich and noble became Christians and voluntarily went to martyrdom.

                    And how many were there compared to slaves? Some of the rich and noble also supported the Bolsheviks, but again, how many were there?
                    1. I
                      0
                      31 March 2020 14: 13
                      So the rich are always a small percentage. Beggars at all times were dozens of times more.
    2. Fat
      +3
      30 March 2020 12: 45
      By the way, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior was originally built in such a place that it is easier to blow up and if you really want to rebuild it in another place, it is not surprising that nothing was built in its place afterwards. There the soil is such that nothing larger than a shed can be built.

      Mdya .... The Cathedral of Christ the Savior was built 40 years (consecrated in 1883) on the site where 2 monasteries were previously; the penultimate was built. In the 16th century, on the site of a previously burned one. This (Alekseevsky convent) suffered during the Time of Troubles and was rebuilt again in 1625. In a monastery in 1634 a new two-hipped temple was consecrated in the name of the Transfiguration of the Lord. Before the construction of the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, the monastery buildings were dismantled and moved to another place. In 1931, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior was blown up by decision of the Politburo. At this place it was supposed to erect the Palace of Soviets, the center of the new Moscow and the tallest building in the world, the construction idea of ​​which was voiced back in 1922. The next year, construction work began. By 1939, the foundation of the Palace of Soviets was completed, but the construction was frozen due to the outbreak of World War II. Steel structures of the frame were dismantled during the war years for the needs of defense. In 1960, the construction of the pool was completed at this place. According to a popular version, the idea of ​​creating a pool on the site of the abandoned foundation pit of the Palace of Soviets belonged to the very first party secretary Nikita Khrushchev. The remaining steel structures and the concrete foundation of the giant building were often filled with water and resembled a swamp in the center of Moscow.
      First there was a temple, then - trash, and now - shame (s)
      In 1994 - 1999 the temple was recreated.
      "The temple has the status of a Patriarchal courtyard and is a collective cenotaph of the soldiers of the Russian Imperial Army who died in the war with Napoleon. The names of the officers who died in the war and the foreign campaigns of 1797-1806 and 1813-1814 are inscribed on the walls of the temple."
      So ... About the sheds, you bent out of place ...
      In fact, new temples are often built on the site of old or existing ones. Maybe they think that the place where the ancestors turned to higher powers was not chosen by chance. This is regardless of denomination. As an example, Hagia Sophia ... which was a mosque for a little less than 500 years, and was built in the 6th century as a patriarchal Orthodox cathedral.
      1. -1
        30 March 2020 16: 19
        Quote: Thick
        There the soil is such that nothing larger than a shed can be built.

        Oh, these experts with VO ...
        1. Fat
          0
          30 March 2020 20: 38
          Passage about sheds is from EvilLion.
          In some ways, he is right. The Cathedral of Christ the Savior even under Alexander I in 1817 began to be built according to the project of Viteberg on the Sparrow Hills. The chosen place, as it later turned out (according to the official version), is not suitable for construction ... Although this place used to have a royal royal residence. Construction was curtailed 10 years after laying.
          Viteberg gave the floor to the court for embezzlement ..
          The treasury spent 4 million bills of the total amount of about 16 million rubles.
  45. -1
    30 March 2020 13: 25
    For 9 liters of vodka. How the Bolsheviks destroyed the Spassky Cathedral
    And why not write to the author at the same time how the Bolsheviks saved Isakievsky and Kazan Cathedrals in Leningrad by carefully disguising them during the Second World War? winked Ah, yes, I somehow missed that praising the Bolsheviks for this author is not a format, and in general (probably in his opinion) a bad taste, just a gaff. wassat Those who identified him here apparently pay him for the exact opposite opinion .... lol
    1. -1
      30 March 2020 16: 13
      Quote: Radikal
      Those who identified him here apparently pay him for the exact opposite opinion ....

      But didn’t I write about how the Bolsheviks saved the evacuated population of the western regions of the USSR? You wouldn’t know anything about this if I hadn’t tried. So it’s not necessary to write nonsense about formats. Unlike in the past, we now have freedom of speech. But ... about St. Isaac’s Cathedral, I would write why not, but I don’t live in St. Petersburg and do not have access to the St. Petersburg Communist Party Civic Archive and other archives. And without this it’s not interesting. Look, what interesting materials from the prison newspaper of 1925 are given. Where would you know about this if not for this article? And what beautiful photos ...
  46. +1
    30 March 2020 16: 09
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    It was not necessary to idealize the Soviet Union, the same minuses were full, however, to compare with today's Russia as it is, but the language does not turn.

    I agree with you: in the Soviet Union there was a negative, but if you compare today and what happened with. Yeltsin?
    You can call me a romantic dreamer, but I hope this stops. It seemed that the Yeltsin nightmare would be eternal, but it has turned and the current situation will change for the better! Perhaps I’m mistaken and will get extra cons, but I’ll say what I’m thinking about: all the troubles began when the leadership of the Communist Party betrayed Lenin’s covenants: THE AUTHORITY IS GIVEN THE PARTY FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE, AND NOT FOR THEIR WELFARE
  47. +1
    30 March 2020 16: 15
    Quote: it's me
    ,, The revolutionaries in tsarist Russia were also persecuted. ,,

    And not in vain, as history shows.


    ,, Well, so what am I talking about. Perfectly live without my money. And if a church cannot be built without state aid, then God's will.


    With your money, a corpse on Red Square contains a lot of monuments to this corpse and its accomplices.

    Sorry, I’ll only put 1 minus
    1. I
      -1
      30 March 2020 16: 32
      ,, Sorry, I’ll only put 1 minus ,,

      I'm sorry laughing
  48. 0
    30 March 2020 17: 42
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Radikal
    Those who identified him here apparently pay him for the exact opposite opinion ....

    But didn’t I write about how the Bolsheviks saved the evacuated population of the western regions of the USSR? You wouldn’t know anything about this if I hadn’t tried. So it’s not necessary to write nonsense about formats. Unlike in the past, we now have freedom of speech. But ... about St. Isaac’s Cathedral, I would write why not, but I don’t live in St. Petersburg and do not have access to the St. Petersburg Communist Party Civic Archive and other archives. And without this it’s not interesting. Look, what interesting materials from the prison newspaper of 1925 are given. Where would you know about this if not for this article? And what beautiful photos ...

    Well, it’s not for you to judge what I know and what is not, maybe I know something that you don’t know, and I hope you never know, moreover, you don’t have to have access to the archive of Peter and be his resident to find out how the monuments were saved , other historical values ​​in besieged Leningrad - our generation is aware of this and without an archive! lol
    1. +1
      30 March 2020 18: 18
      Quote: Radikal
      there is absolutely no need to have access to the archive of St. Petersburg and be its resident in order to find out how the monuments and other historical values ​​were saved in the besieged Leningrad - our generation is aware of this without the archive!

      Human memory is imperfect. Moreover, you are not "Comrade Zhdanov" who knew all this thoroughly.
    2. 0
      30 March 2020 18: 19
      Quote: Radikal
      Well, not for you to judge what I know and what not

      So you and the newspaper "Voice of the prisoner" from GAPO read? Well, I'm shocked ...
  49. 0
    30 March 2020 19: 03
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Radikal
    Well, not for you to judge what I know and what not

    So you and the newspaper "Voice of the prisoner" from GAPO read? Well, I'm shocked ...

    It’s a cheap way to grab phrases out of context, but by this you once again confirm your belonging to the yellow, anti-Soviet press. wassat
    1. -1
      30 March 2020 19: 36
      So they didn’t read it, but you can’t admit it in any way, probably ... it will fall off. Reception is cheap? But effective, why use something expensive? And what do you find bad in the yellow anti-Soviet press? There are scoop lovers in society - there must be a press for them, there are those who do not like him - they also need to read something. The needs of people must be satisfied quickly and efficiently.
      1. +1
        30 March 2020 20: 52
        So, and now on the case.
        Penza in 1934 was a district center.
        I doubt that the local district authorities could independently carry out such an operation without authorization from above. Ie. traces must most likely be sought in the Tambov region, especially since it was then the regional center.
        In addition, it is highly doubtful that the local district authorities simply acquired several tons of industrial explosives.
        By the way, the version that the cadets of the army subversive school blew up the temple is very believable.
        Ammonal, this is an industrial explosive, is not used in the army, and therefore it was required to detonate in stages.
        And generally speaking. By 1934, the autonomy of the authorities had already been suppressed, it was just like to blow up the building, while in the center of the city having evicted the state institution (the city archive - from the article above) most likely is strange.
        PS
        By the way, the massive construction of churches gave rise to a really high-tech industry.
        The stainless steel sheet is coated with titanium nitride in a vacuum chamber by magnetron sputtering. A stainless steel sheet 1x2 m in size will be covered for inexpensively (about 1500 rubles) good
        1. +1
          31 March 2020 14: 23
          Actually, current technologies didn’t lie next to those. Therefore, the skill of the then builders is admirable
  50. +1
    30 March 2020 19: 50
    Quote: kalibr
    The needs of people must be satisfied quickly and efficiently.
    Is this your political creed? lol You got a great motto for women, and ... men with low social responsibility! wassat
    1. 0
      30 March 2020 20: 28
      Cheap trick to snatch phrases, huh? But I am pleased with your learning of good manners. However, in my opinion, this slogan could be very relevant for the same USSR. But you don’t suffer from the lack of queues? Or do you still want to stand for an hour or two? And by the way, why all this pick? Would you like to add a click site? It pleases, but for this you can not write. He went out, went in again, opened and closed. Because you will not prove anything to me with your writings, I will only be pleased with the number of comments per se.
  51. +1
    30 March 2020 22: 35
    Quote: kalibr
    A cheap trick to snatch phrases, right? But I am pleased with your ability to learn good manners.
    Don’t flatter yourself - God forbid people from such “teachers”! Fortunately, I, and my friends and colleagues had such teachers and teachers who had a completely adequate and unambiguous attitude towards representatives of the “yellow” press, which, as you yourself admitted and consider yourself to be. We won’t scrape around, we’ll part intelligently, in English... . lol
    1. +1
      31 March 2020 06: 30
      Quote: Radikal
      Fortunately, I, and my friends and colleagues had such teachers and lecturers,

      We had the same teachers - homo sovetikaus and with their help, both you and I are safely about... a great country. And then I studied myself and realized that in any case, if you are a master of your craft, you will succeed everywhere!
      1. 0
        31 March 2020 13: 44
        Quote: kalibr
        ...realized that in any case, if you are a master of your craft, you will succeed everywhere!

        Especially if you keep your nose in the wind...
        1. 0
          31 March 2020 15: 23
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Especially if you keep your nose in the wind...
          It was said by the prophet Ecclesiastes: Every vegetable has its time, a time to gather stones and a time to scatter, a time to embrace and a time to avoid hugs! And if this is commanded according to the faith of Christ, that is, God himself commanded this, then... why go against the Lord’s will?
        2. +1
          April 2 2020 00: 00
          Of course, if a person is not a blinkered fanatic, he must respond adequately to changing external circumstances. Are you wearing a mask now?
          1. -1
            April 2 2020 14: 17
            Quote: Icelord
            Of course, if a person is not a blinkered fanatic, he must respond adequately to changing external circumstances.

            Is this how you justify General Vlasov?

            Quote: Icelord
            Are you wearing a mask now?

            And this “argument” of yours is simply killer. .. In such cases they say: “...don’t sew on the mare’s tail.”
  52. 0
    31 March 2020 11: 21
    Quote: Alexander Green
    Surely sky-high, a simple hard worker can not afford.
    Reply

    You press the computer buttons and go to the website of the Penza Perinatal Center. The same way you access the VO website. The only difference is in the address set. And you don’t have to guess right away, you just ask... and they answer you. That's all. Why play "chamomile" here?
  53. -1
    31 March 2020 13: 50
    Quote: kalibr
    е

    Nobody is playing. It’s just that many people need serious treatment, for which they do not have the means, because... the prices of medical services are exorbitant, only a few are lucky; they get it for free as an advertisement, or the whole world collects the required amount.
    1. 0
      31 March 2020 15: 19
      Quote: Alexander Green
      only a few are lucky

      Somehow, in Penza we are full of such “units”... By the way, did you find the site, were you able to ask questions and get answers?
      1. 0
        31 March 2020 20: 34
        Quote: kalibr
        The prophet Ecclesiastes said:


        Unfortunately, during perestroika, few were able to discern the brazen pressure of the changelings from communism, and they did not immediately see how the “fighters” with privileges turned into oligarchic bosses who fleeced the people like crazy.
        And this is the result we have today

        Again empty talk
        Don't make ends meet ...
        Thieves teach us an honest life
        And - to nobility - scoundrels.


        The majority of the people do not accept this outcome, but the opportunists, including you, are happy and justify their betrayal with the commandments of spiritual slavery.

        “Enjoy life now as God gives it.” , so the book of Ecclesiastes seems to teach. This is a slave philosophy. wise humility... But what pleasure can a slave have?

        “A slave who is aware of his slave position and fights against it is a revolutionary. A slave who is not aware of his slavery and vegetates in a silent, unconscious and wordless slave life is simply a slave. A slave whose mouth waters when he smugly describes the delights of slave life and admires his kind and good master is a slave, a boor.»
        (V.I. Lenin, “In Memory of Count Heyden.” // PSS, T.16, P.40)
        1. 0
          31 March 2020 20: 40
          He wrote this while living in Gorki with a servant, right? And his wife didn’t wash the floor there or wash his underwear? Always with servants, always on clean floors... In Nice he took a break from revolutionary labors with the money of the workers... That is, the uncle understood everything well while sitting on someone else's hump! But he got married in the church. “What God has united, man does not separate!” That is, here I remembered God, a female dog...
          1. -1
            31 March 2020 21: 14
            Quote: kalibr
            That is, here I remembered God, a female dog...

            Well, what can I tell you? IN AND. Lenin gave a very accurate description of people like you. On my own behalf, I can add that even though you are a well-fed slave, you are still tormented by anxiety that you have betrayed what you served, and that is why you hate everything Soviet and throw mud at everything...

            The only way for a well-fed slave to regain his human appearance.
            "Starve, and only starve"
            1. +1
              31 March 2020 22: 04
              That is, Lenin could drink beer in Nice and somersault with Inessa Armand, of course...
              1. 0
                April 1 2020 00: 32
                Quote: kalibr
                That is, Lenin could drink beer in Nice and somersault with Inessa Armand, of course...

                But he was not a well-fed slave, he was a revolutionary, and in Nice Lenin did not drink beer, but wrote articles, pamphlets, and led the work of the Bolshevik Party..
                1. -1
                  April 3 2020 18: 19
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  and in Nice, Lenin did not drink beer, but wrote articles, brochures, and led the work of the Bolshevik Party..

                  Ha-ha-ha!
                  1. 0
                    April 4 2020 13: 45
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Ha-ha-ha!

                    Laughter for no reason is a sign of du... well, you know what.
                    1. -1
                      April 4 2020 14: 56
                      The reason is very solid: “Lenin didn’t drink beer in Nice.” While in Nice, shouldn’t he drink beer? It's hot there... Although maybe I didn't drink. And he drank wine, there was at least some of it from the local vineyards. You will also say that he didn’t fuck anyone then. And he tied it with a cord and... sat writing brochures!
                      1. +1
                        April 4 2020 17: 31
                        Quote: kalibr
                        drank wine.............

                        I have seen a lot in life, but after reading your comment, I almost vomited...I have never seen such outspoken cynics
                        And for your development: V.I. Lenin could not stand alcohol.
                      2. -1
                        April 4 2020 17: 44
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        And for your development: V.I. Lenin couldn't stand alcohol

                        No need to talk! You see, I might have believed you if I hadn’t lived in Samara for three years, worked in the party archive in Ulyanovsk for a month, and when I didn’t work, I wandered around museums, and again, I probably spent at least six months in Kazan. And I also visited the Lenin Museum there. So in Samara there is also a house-museum of Lenin. And there, back then in Kuibyshev, they worked on a diary of what Lenin did. Who did you go where with, where did you go on a boat... But we were graduate students in the history of the CPSU and we were constantly informed about new facts. Well, we were happy to ask, what about brothels and alcohol. And I don’t remember what there is about brothels. It was not, I won’t lie. But young Ilyich loved beer and this is in the memoirs of his contemporaries. I'll have to contact my friends at the universities there and ask.
                      3. -1
                        April 4 2020 17: 47
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        .I have never seen such outspoken cynics

                        Look!
                      4. +1
                        April 4 2020 18: 42
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Look!

                        What is there to see? Cofucius said well about people like you:
                        "A lowly man strives for profit, but a noble man strives for justice."
                      5. 0
                        April 4 2020 19: 08
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Look!

                        As a continuation of what was said.

                        Stop throwing mud at V.I. Lenin. He, unlike you, even on his deathbed thought about the people, how we should continue to live, and, despite severe headaches, he continued to work and left behind the most valuable instructions. This is a civil feat of Genius.

                        You can’t even stand next to me, but I understand you, even a donkey wants to kick a dead lion in order to convince others of his importance: “Let <lion> know the donkey’s hooves!”
                      6. -1
                        April 4 2020 19: 24
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        and left behind the most valuable instructions.

                        After 1991, I coughed at his most valuable instructions, since he did not understand basic things.
                      7. 0
                        April 4 2020 20: 53
                        Quote: kalibr
                        After 1991, I coughed at his most valuable instructions,

                        Look, don't choke...
                      8. +1
                        April 5 2020 09: 05
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        ....Be careful not to choke...
                        Alexander! Greetings! SUDDENLY it was already coronavirus since then. Or is it inflammation?
                      9. 0
                        April 5 2020 11: 45
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        Alexander! Greetings! SUDDENLY it was already coronavirus since then. Or is it inflammation?

                        Hello Dima. No, he has it anti-communism virus, he spent a long time in the incubation period, and after 1991 the open form of the disease began. But, I think that as soon as he smells something fried, he will be cured.
                      10. +1
                        April 5 2020 12: 10
                        And I remembered the comparisons about the village and Lenin’s exile.
                        But Lenin did not think that he would live to see the Socialist Revolution. And she ---- once it came and it happened!!!..
                        The same is now quite possible...
                      11. +2
                        April 4 2020 18: 11
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        ..Such outright cynics

                        It is no secret that the most cruel overseers of slaves were those appointed from among the slaves themselves. Therefore, it is not surprising that the most cynical anti-communists are former instructors of the propaganda departments of district party committees. The Law of Compensation
                      12. +1
                        April 4 2020 18: 36
                        Quote: Liam
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        ..Such outright cynics

                        It is no secret that the most cruel overseers of slaves were those appointed from among the slaves themselves. Therefore, it is not surprising that the most cynical anti-communists are former instructors of the propaganda departments of district party committees. The Law of Compensation

                        Agree to 100%
                      13. +2
                        April 4 2020 18: 42
                        A very beautiful finished phrase.
                        Quote: Liam
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        ..Such outright cynics

                        It is no secret that the most cruel overseers of slaves were those appointed from among the slaves themselves. Therefore, it is not surprising that the most cynical anti-communists are former instructors of the propaganda departments of district party committees. The Law of Compensation

                        У
                      14. -2
                        April 4 2020 19: 26
                        Eh, I should have made a bet with my friend on 650 comments. Surely we could score 10 somehow, eh?
                      15. +1
                        April 4 2020 20: 54
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Eh, I should have made a bet with my friend on 650 comments. Surely we could score 10 somehow, eh?

                        Is the toad pressing?
                      16. -2
                        April 5 2020 18: 23
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Toad presses

                        I would just earn even more without the hassle!
                      17. +2
                        April 6 2020 00: 09
                        Quote: kalibr
                        I would just earn even more without the hassle!

                        That means a toad. There, just above in my commentary, read the words of Confucius about people like you.
  54. +2
    31 March 2020 14: 14
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Lies are the lot and hobby of Olgych and others like him. Pro-American and pro-British plakunov on "tsarubatyushka".

    In fact, the Shavers were involved in the death of Paul and welcomed the abdication of Nicholas 2. So they can cry for Kerensky, and now for EBN
  55. 0
    31 March 2020 20: 36
    Quote: Alexander Green
    few were able to see

    So I write all the time - most people are just..."animals with horns" who are doing what? That's right - they cut their hair! And by the way, what am I? We only bet on 500 comments, but now there are 542! Ay, ay, I reworked it and... for nothing. That's it - goodbye until the next fight!
    1. -1
      31 March 2020 21: 20
      Quote: kalibr
      We only bet on 500 comments, but now there are 542!

      At least I didn’t make a bet on you, but as they say: “from a black sheep at least a tuft of wool.” Using your comments at the workers’ academy, I clearly demonstrate the degeneration of renegades from the CPSU. My listeners now have a better vaccine for people like you than for the “corona virus.”
      1. -1
        31 March 2020 22: 00
        Quote: Alexander Green
        Using your comments at the workers’ academy, I clearly demonstrate the degeneration of renegades from the CPSU. My listeners now have a better vaccine for people like you than for the “corona virus.”
        Reply

        Guilty. I wrote about the bet to the reptilian, you can find it, although it’s difficult to search among 547. But you gave me a real gift, I can’t help but thank you. You are giving me free advertising, it turns out. Don’t you know that people... people are as curious as cats? You tell them “he’s bad”, but they, the young ones, are tired of listening to the old fart, they immediately go to their iPhone and see for themselves... is this so and what do they see? A lot of interesting articles with beautiful photographs, skillfully written... They type in your name - and there are a lot of books - each more interesting than the other. I would like to check if this is true. And in the end, clicks, clicks, clicks. They, young people, find it interesting. You can show off your erudition in front of a girl. And you are a vaccine... They have fire in their pants, they would like a beer and a girl, but you tell them about Marx. Funny. What has always let you down, commies, is ignorance. Ignorance of basic things. And the fact that you are minding your own business. Remember, the main rule of counter-propaganda is silence. So as not to arouse any interest in people. Until someone else finds something on their own. And he will ask... and then you can jerk your shoulder and say: “This is not interesting!” And that’s it, no one else will even watch. This is how it should be, but... you still won’t listen to me, which means I’m guaranteed a lot of new clicks.
        1. 0
          April 1 2020 00: 51
          Quote: kalibr
          To blame.

          Is hunting better than captivity? You broke your promise. They say about such people with irony: “A man is the “master” of his word: He gave his word and took his word.”
          And you don’t have to thank me for the advertising, people should know such “heroes” by sight, they might come in handy.
      2. -1
        31 March 2020 23: 29
        at the workers' academy
        The Academy is, of course, illegal?
        1. 0
          April 1 2020 01: 03
          Quote: Undecim
          The Academy is, of course, illegal?

          What does illegal mean? Sunday schools are not prohibited, but workers gather and study on Sundays, and I help them understand the political situation.
          http://proletaire.ucoz.ru/
          1. +1
            April 1 2020 07: 14
            So, based on your site, I decided that you are illegal. The most recent event there was about eight years ago.
            I remember in Soviet times, workers had to collect political information under pressure during working hours.
            That is why I am tormented by strong doubts that today’s workers are going to “understand the political situation” on Sundays.
            1. -1
              April 1 2020 11: 48
              Quote: Undecim
              The most recent event there was about eight years ago.

              Events are not advertised; announcements are removed after the deadline. Take a look at the “Library” and “Articles” sections, our materials are regularly posted there.
              1. +2
                April 1 2020 13: 01
                I read it. It smelled of such dense ignorance. With such baggage and with such methods and personnel, do you really hope for any success in the fight against modern imperialism?
                The philosophy of Marxism studies the fundamental problems of man's position in the world, relationships between people and the essence of man as such. Marxist philosophy is based on the coverage of these problems in its most important concepts: about the laws of history, about the importance of material production in the life of society, about class struggle, social revolution, and so on.
                Concepts have changed radically over 200 years, and you are still speaking in categories that were two centuries old and at the same time hoping for some kind of success? Lenin in the Mausoleum turns over with shame for such “faithful successors of Lenin’s work,” Neanderthals from Marxism.
                While, in the context of a reassessment of the fundamental foundations of society, Marxism continues to remain a relevant current of philosophical and political thought, gaining new supporters around the world, mossy rabble-rousers like you are doing everything to discredit Marxism. At the same time, instead of learning yourself, you also undertake to teach others.
                Oxymoron.
                1. -1
                  April 1 2020 13: 34
                  Quote: Undecim
                  in the fight against modern imperialism?

                  And modern imperialism is no different from how V.I. described it. Lenin in his work "Imperialism as the Highest Stage of Capitalism."

                  Marxism is an integral teaching; nothing can be thrown out of it. An illustrative example: Khrushchev in 1961 threw out the dictatorship of the proletariat from the CPSU program, we all know what this led to. Opportunists and revisionists of all stripes shouted in 1917 that Russia was not yet ready for a socialist revolution, but today they shout that Marxism is already outdated.
                  1. +1
                    April 1 2020 16: 56
                    Tell me, what countries have you been to, have you seen the life of the local proletariat there and communicated with them?
                    1. 0
                      April 1 2020 17: 53
                      Quote: Undecim
                      Tell me, what countries have you been to, have you seen the life of the local proletariat there and communicated with them?

                      He was everywhere except Australia, both before and after the 1991 coup, communicating, even singing songs and corresponding.
                      1. 0
                        April 1 2020 18: 07
                        “Everywhere” somehow doesn’t inspire confidence. There are 196 states in the world. Have you been to 195?
                      2. +1
                        April 1 2020 21: 22
                        Quote: Undecim
                        “Everywhere” somehow doesn’t inspire confidence. There are 196 states in the world. Have you been to 195?

                        I meant the continents: Europe, Asia, Africa, South and North America.
                      3. 0
                        April 1 2020 21: 56
                        Have you been on tour? In which specific countries of these continents? I hope I'm not bothering you with questions?
                      4. +1
                        April 1 2020 22: 17
                        Quote: Undecim
                        Have you been on tour? In which specific countries of these continents? I hope I'm not bothering you with questions?

                        I was a sailor, it’s too long to list all the countries, I visited about 40 countries in total, and even more ports.
                      5. +1
                        April 1 2020 22: 38
                        It's clear. So they would write that they visited the ports of forty countries as a sailor of the Sovtorgflot. Now it’s clear that you don’t have the slightest idea about the life of the proletariat and the social processes taking place among them today.
                        And, apparently, there is no need to ask about the state of Marxism as an economic theory today. Maybe they even read Paolo Virno, he seemed to be published in Russian?
                      6. 0
                        April 1 2020 23: 58
                        Quote: Undecim
                        you don’t have the slightest idea about the life of the proletariat and the social processes in its midst taking place today

                        You are jumping to conclusions.

                        Firstly, what could prevent me from learning about the life of foreign workers while sailing on Soviet ships? For example, in the 80s I spent two months undergoing repairs at the Breda shipyard (Venice) and communicated closely with the workers working for us, even sang songs with him.

                        Secondly, I wrote that I was abroad even after the 1991 coup, i.e. when the Soviet fleet was no longer there, But what does that change?

                        Thirdly, about Poalo Virno. I didn’t get through his book; as soon as I saw that he was trying to replace the Marxist categories of society with mathematical ones, I realized that there was no point in reading further. He's still a mess. In addition, he got dirty by participating in the anti-Semitic movement and supporting the ideas of the Red Brigades. And these are also not Marxist methods.
                      7. +1
                        April 2 2020 00: 15
                        Thirdly, about Poalo Virno. I didn’t get through his book; as soon as I saw that he was trying to replace the Marxist categories of society with mathematical ones, I realized that there was no point in reading further.
                        Apparently, you have not progressed further than the annotation, since Virno’s “sets” have nothing to do with mathematics.
                        You undertake to prescribe medicines for modern society, using knowledge that was two hundred years old.
                        I would look at your reaction if you went to a doctor, and he began to treat you according to the medical vocabulary of 1842.
                      8. 0
                        April 2 2020 14: 34
                        Quote: Undecim
                        I would look at your reaction if you went to a doctor, and he began to treat you according to the medical vocabulary of 1842.

                        And what is the fundamental difference between current imperialism and the imperialism described by V.I. Lenin. in his work "Imperialism, as the highest stage of capitalism."
                        Nothing.

                        And Marxism is a method that has proven its effectiveness. This is a sharp weapon of the working class, so the bourgeoisie and its minions are constantly trying to blunt it..

                        And your example with medical vocabulary is incorrect. I can bring
                        counterexample: logarithms were invented in 1614 and are still used today.
                      9. +1
                        April 2 2020 17: 35
                        And what is the fundamental difference between current imperialism and the imperialism described by V.I. Lenin. in his work "Imperialism, as the highest stage of capitalism."
                        Nothing.

                        This is what is called disciplining. For you, it is complicated by retrograde behavior and a stubborn reluctance to learn, which, by the way, Lenin repeatedly called for.
                      10. 0
                        April 2 2020 20: 43
                        Quote: Undecim
                        This is what is called disciplining. For you, it is complicated by retrograde behavior and a stubborn reluctance to learn, which, by the way, Lenin repeatedly called for.


                        You’re wrong, I’m just learning: from the classics. and not among the confused ones.

                        IN AND. Lenin, in his work “Imperialism as the Highest Stage of Capitalism,” noted five main features of imperialism:

                        1) concentration of production and capital, which reached such a high stage of development that it created monopolies that play a decisive role in economic life;

                        2) the merger of banking capital with industrial capital and the creation, on the basis of this “financial capital,” of a financial oligarchy;

                        3) the export of capital, in contrast to the export of goods, becomes particularly important;

                        4) international monopoly unions of capitalists are formed, dividing the world, and

                        5) the territorial division of the land by the largest capitalist powers has been completed.

                        Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development when the dominance of monopolies and finance capital has emerged, the export of capital has acquired outstanding importance, the division of the world by international trusts has begun, and the division of the entire territory of the earth by the largest capitalist countries has ended.

                        There is nowhere for him to develop further - a dead end. Next is only the transition to socialism.
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