For 9 liters of vodka. How the Bolsheviks destroyed the Spassky Cathedral

For 9 liters of vodka. How the Bolsheviks destroyed the Spassky Cathedral
Spassky Cathedral in Penza at the end of the XNUMXth century


“Lying is the religion of slaves and masters ... Truth is the god of a free man!”
Maksim Gorky. At the bottom


History and documents. A cathedral is being built in the center of Penza. Moreover, the construction has entered the final phase - the interior is being decorated with marble. Outside, everything is finished. And the surrounding temple buildings, and bell towers, and the square, and porches. The monument to Karl Marx, standing on the square, was found a new place nearby. They didn’t break it. Moreover, the cathedral is being built on an old site. He has already been here. Moreover, it was built a long time ago. Construction took place in the years 1790-1824 and ended with the construction of the most grandiose and spectacular building in Penza - the Spassky Cathedral, after which the area became known as the Cathedral. In 1923, the Spassky Cathedral was closed, the following year it was given over to the archives, and the square was called Soviet. In 1934, the cathedral was blown up. The destruction of the Spassky Cathedral in Penza is one of the most disgusting events in the history of Penza, and today we’ll talk about it.


Moscow Street, the cathedral and the pedestal under the monument to Tsar Alexander the Liberator, which was never installed. Photograph of the beginning of the century

But the story will have to start not with the history of the cathedral, but again with archival documents. Working in the Penza City Archive, I came across a curious historical document. It can be said, completely unique - the Penza newspaper "Voice of the prisoner." How many years she graduated, when it began to graduate and when it ended, until it was not possible to find out. But what matters most is the very fact of publishing a printed newspaper in prison and, of course, its contents. This is the true spirit of the era. After all, these people sitting behind bars breathed the air of a completely new Russia. In many ways, they looked at life in a new way. That is, it is a very interesting source. However, an anti-religious topic drew my attention to the newspaper. I must say that in Penza in the 20s the “Union of Atheists” operated and the central newspapers “Atheist” and “Atheist at the Machine” were distributed, in short, there was enough anti-religious propaganda. Articles on anti-religious topics were regularly published in the newspaper “Working Penza”, and when believers installed a spotlight on the bell tower of the Peter and Paul Church, to light up Easter night, the newspaper called it “unheard of arrogance”. And now it turned out that the newspaper “The Voice of the Prisoner” published materials on anti-religious topics, moreover, written by the prisoners themselves.


Newspaper "Atheist"


The Voice of the Prisoner

It was then that it occurred to me to look at what was written in this newspaper about the explosion of the Spassky Cathedral. After all, it was an event! Not that there was some kind of searchlight there for Easter ... And also to see how it was reflected in the documents of the city committee of the CPSU (b). I looked at the local history materials and ran into the first difficulty. Nowhere was it indicated when the cathedral was blown up. In 1934, yes! But when exactly? I went to the public relations department of the Penza Patriarchate, introduced myself, explained what and why, and they told me that the cathedral was blown up in August, but it is not known what date.


Atheism then grew even in prisons!

And how do you command me to understand? This is not an old water pump, which they took and demolished - this is a cathedral in the city center, and a huge building. The explosion of the cathedral (“an enterprise producing opium for the people”) is an event of a grandiose scale! And neither the day nor time of this action is known. Here's how: cooked and hid the spoons! You cannot say otherwise.


In the cell, the priest and the deacon. For what, interesting?

Well, well, at least a month to find out. He ordered "Work Penza" for 1934, flipped through all the numbers for August. It's empty! About the explosion of the cathedral NOTHING. As if he was not there.


"Religious foreman"

Well, I went to the party archive. He raised the materials for 1934. It's empty. They discuss thieves, robbers of public property, various other issues. But no one raised the issue of the explosion of the cathedral and during the whole year it was not discussed at the level of the city committee (there was no regional committee then, Penza entered the Tambov region). Where did the explosive command come from? Where did the explosives come from, who was laying it?


The area after the explosion of the cathedral. It hosts a gathering of cyclists!

But most importantly - why did not the newspaper report this? Since we are fighting religion, this is an excellent occasion for you to write that we, the Bolsheviks, irreconcilable fighters against religious dope, successively realizing the ideas of Marx - Lenin - Stalin, destroy this stronghold of obscurantism, and let the dawn of reason shine on Penza! Well, something like that ... But no, everything was done secretly, thieves ...


So he was at the beginning of the XX century

The PR law is this: since there is no official information, it is replaced by rumors. And it is natural that after the explosion they didn’t talk about him. They survived in the memoirs of the Penza people to this day. They say that a lot of people came. But there were a lot of police. Therefore, people were silent. Most cried. First dismantled the bell. They removed the fasteners, and he remained hanging on one rope. All workers refused to do this. We started looking for a volunteer. One local alcoholic called out for three quarters of vodka (9 liters, not bad, however!). When the bell fell, it touched the ceiling, and there was such a loud bang that many people even got their ears closed. A drunkard fell unconscious, he was shell-shocked. And three days later he died!

Cathedral bombing brought cadets of the demolition school. For all cadets this was a shock, but for military people the order is an order, it is not supposed to discuss it. At the base of the cathedral, in the walls, which had a thickness of more than three meters, drilled pits and laid charges of ammonal. And the whole square was surrounded by police. The first explosion thundered, pits were knocked out, but the building could not be destroyed. The charges doubled, but that didn't help either. Only on the third attempt did the cathedral fall apart into huge boulders. They did not bother to remove them until 1947! And they were also undermined, the strength was masonry.


A new cathedral is being built ...

It was said that after the explosion of the cathedral, a ghost in a white shroud began to walk across the square. Three security officers were sent to catch a ghost. They didn’t catch him, but saw how he suddenly appeared near the wall of the governor’s house and then seemed to fall underground under the site of the former monument to Karl Marx.

In general, things got worse nowhere and only showed the people the weakness of the existing government. Everything had to be done quickly. Break the bell cable with a dynamite saber, do not spare explosives for detonation (pre-train in some church outside the city!) In order to detonate once. And the main thing is to immediately remove all the destruction so that nothing reminds us that the cathedral was there at all. So as in the song: “Here it was, and no!” Because there is nothing stronger than the Bolshevik party and their iron Bolshevik will!

But the most important thing is, of course, the cowardly silence of the fact of the explosion of the cathedral in the regional newspaper. An article about celebrating Easter is bad - here it is, but a joyful article that another dope nest in the country ceased to exist did not appear! What, the journalists were afraid that their hands would dry out? Or that believers in a dark alley will fill their faces?


And here he is now!

Well, the modern history of the cathedral began in 2010. On April 7, the foundation stone was laid, and on February 28, 2011, the foundation was poured with concrete under the bell tower. In December 2014, the main dome of the cathedral was installed. To date, the construction of the cathedral, together with a bell tower 82,5 meters high (with a 27-storey building) has already been completed. Even the basement here is seven meters high! It remains to lay the walls with granite panels, lay a stone floor, as well as finish the basement and first floors.


The modern bell tower is taller and slimmer than the old one!

“The Spassky Cathedral is composed of 2 million 200 thousand bricks. It can accommodate almost three thousand parishioners, ”they told me in the information department of the Penza diocese.

Interior finishing work is the most painstaking, time-consuming and costly. According to experts, in terms of investment, the finish will exceed the construction itself!


"The sun over the cathedral"

“Now you will not see anything interesting, inside the church everything is in the woods, plastering is in progress. We plan to complete this work this summer. Only after plastering can artists start painting the temple, ”said Andrei Timofeev, an artist-designer and icon painter who is involved in the interior of the cathedral. - Of course, the design will be conducted according to all the canons. Unfortunately, no sketches of the decoration of the old temple, which stood on this site until 1934, have been preserved. There are fragmentary 4-5 watercolors of Makarov, and that’s all. Unfortunately, they cannot be restored to their old paintings. ”

According to him, Moscow icon painters are ready to get down to business and are now developing design sketches. The cathedral will have a unique marble floor: made of natural stone, the shades of which will be selected among marbles in various parts of the world.


Scaffolding inside

“It will be a built-in floor with a pattern, perhaps it will be ordered in China or Italy,” continues Andrei Timofeev. - On the walls, we decided to make panels 1,5-2 meters high, made of natural or artificial stone. It all depends on funding. ”


Look up - the hat is falling off your head

Gold details will be truly gold. But the domes, although they look golden, are actually trimmed with golden sheets of a very strong and durable material - nitrotitanium. And the cathedral itself will be filled with light and air. And this is indeed so, and now let it be filled to the top with scaffolding.


Behind the trees of the park ...
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  1. withoutreverse 29 March 2020 07: 11 New
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    “Lying is the religion of slaves and masters ... Truth is the god of a free man!”
    Maksim Gorky. At the bottom

    100 years have passed .. and looking at what the new nouveaux riches are doing from the authorities .. I completely agree with the classic of Soviet literature. education and medicine are no longer needed .. all hope for priests and bishops.
    1. siberalt 29 March 2020 07: 52 New
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      In the USSR, at each plant there were clubs, cinema halls, cultural palaces, libraries, stadiums, hospitals. Now, no factories, no factories, and not all of this. But now it is entirely shopping centers, boutiques, funeral agencies and, of course, church parishes.
      1. RUSS 29 March 2020 14: 44 New
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        Quote: siberalt
        In the USSR, at each plant there were clubs, cinema halls, cultural palaces, libraries, stadiums, hospitals. Now, no factories, no factories, and not all of this. But now it is entirely shopping centers, boutiques, funeral agencies and, of course, church parishes.

        True, there are more sports facilities, and libraries are not needed for reasons of Internet access.
    2. Bar1 29 March 2020 08: 52 New
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      Here are a few excerpts from the laws [1] of the “blessed” Russian Empire, which “helped” the common people to constantly “improve” spiritually.

      “For“ non-existence in a confession ”, for the first time, charge the ruble for the first time for the non-residents and townspeople, 2 rubles for the second time, 3 rubles for the third time .; from peasants - 5, 10 and 15 kopecks, respectively. ”


      “For concealment of the“ non-marketers ”of the priest, punish 5 rubles for the first case, then 10 and 15, and for the fourth time - deprivation of authority and sent to hard labor”


      See the section on Crimes Against Faith.

      Article 182. Blasphemy in the church - exile and hard labor up to 20 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization; in another public place - exile and penal servitude up to 8 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization. Article 183. Non-public blasphemy - exile to Siberia and corporal punishment.

      But what threatened those who risked criticizing Christianity:

      Article 186. Blasphemy, vilification, censure, criticism of Christianity without intent - imprisonment in a house of up to 2 years, imprisonment up to 2 years.

      Article 187. Printed and written criticism of Christianity - reference to Siberia, corporal punishment.

      Article 188. Mockery of Christianity, intentionally - the conclusion of the year, unintentionally - up to 3 months.

      Article 189. Production, distribution of articles of faith in obscene form - intent - punishment in accordance with Art. 183; without intent - imprisonment up to 6 months or arrest up to 3 weeks.


      Article 190. Distraction from the faith: non-violent - exile up to 10 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization; violent - reference up to 15 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization.

      Article 191. Departure from faith - deprivation of rights for the time of deviation from faith.

      Article 192. If one of the parents of a non-Christian faith brings up children not in the Orthodox faith - divorce, exile to Siberia.

      Article 195. Seduction from Orthodoxy to another religion - exile, corporal punishment, correctional labor up to 2 years. Under forced coercion - exile to Siberia, corporal punishment.

      Article 196. Apostasy - a ban on contact with children, until returning to faith.



      https://www.kramola.info/vesti/religija/nasazhdenie-pravoslaviya-v-carskoy-rossii
      https://work-way.com/blog/2015/01/06/pravda-o-pravoslavnom-narode/
      that there Spain this obscurantism all happened in the 20th century in Russia. The temples were blown up without any regret - this is the reaction of Russian people to the centuries-old spiritual priest tyranny.
      1. vladcub 29 March 2020 14: 02 New
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        Bar, was paganism better?
        1. Cryvedco 29 March 2020 14: 09 New
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          And what exactly confuses you in it?
          1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 33 New
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            Remember the "Ice Age", where they wanted to put SIDa EMNIP into a crater or something like that in order to prevent some kind of emergency and the masterpiece justification: "What if it helps?" Well, paganism, it simply by definition makes absolutely any game reasonable. "What if we angered the bush god, let us make a sacrifice to him." Monotheistic, or polytheistic religions with a distinct pantheon of gods, at least prevent such schizophrenia, because in the head of people, if not a scientific picture of the world, then at least it does not spell out that someone should be sacrificed. Various extremely dangerous modern sects from the same opera.
            1. Cryvedco 30 March 2020 09: 57 New
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              Oh how, the specifics were brought up! That's why for some reason when you say something good about paganism, the soldiers of the true god or just latent-liberal Russophobes immediately fill up and rub that you can’t say this, because science doesn’t know anything about it, etc., but there is always reason to cajole, and some "scientific" data is immediately found. In short, infa (or rather heresy) where did you get this from?
        2. Bar1 29 March 2020 14: 54 New
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          Quote: vladcub
          Bar, was paganism better?


          not paganism, Russian faith, Russian faith was for the Russian people, but this Christianity for anyone, but not for the Russians.
          1. vladcub 29 March 2020 20: 48 New
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            In fact, the Christian faith of Russians is slippery: you do not recognize the traditional scientific history, and scientific history does not recognize Fomenkovism. We don’t have a time machine to check who is right
            1. Bar1 30 March 2020 07: 23 New
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              Quote: vladcub
              In fact, the Christian faith of Russians is slippery: you do not recognize the traditional scientific history, and scientific history does not recognize Fomenkovism. We don’t have a time machine to check who is right


              I have long had my own evidence that the OI is falsified.
              1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 34 New
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                So you just don’t know the story.
                1. Bar1 31 March 2020 00: 47 New
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                  Quote: EvilLion
                  So you just don’t know the story

                  people didn’t want to go to these churches, isn’t that clear? So people had reasons, and they were forced by force.
                2. Bar1 31 March 2020 00: 52 New
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                  Quote: EvilLion
                  So you just don’t know the story.


                  tell me if you know what is happening?
        3. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 14: 58 New
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          Quote: vladcub
          Bar, was paganism better?

          Who cares?
        4. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 23 New
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          And paganism was formally abolished in the 988th.
          1. Cryvedco 31 March 2020 06: 00 New
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            The church was separated from the state in 1917, formally it is now separated, but I observe something inverse process
      2. Simargl 30 March 2020 07: 46 New
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        Quote: Bar1
        Here are a few excerpts from the laws [1] of the “blessed” Russian Empire, which “helped” the common people to constantly “improve” spiritually.
        It's only the beginning...
        So far, only the "law on the protection of the faithful of believers", after amendments to the Constitution ...
      3. ,, Without any regret blew up the temples ,, in Russia in the XX century, Bar1, ,, ordinary people, and ,, who joined them ,, bad people.
        Adult people should know that not all, homo sapiens, human beings.
        There are only two personified Absolute Categories - Good and evil, God and Satan. Not all of the two-legged ones choose the side of the Creator. If you KNOW this, you will understand the DANGER that comes from ,, ordinary nonhumans ,, (short, convenient and very true in connection with the message - ,, ufo ,,). Only in the trunk of a 4-4bis mine in the city of Stalin (Donetsk), during the occupation, German and Russian-speaking UFOs dumped more than 75 thousand Soviet civilians. Do you have children, Bar1? A beautiful wife? Now fashionable are stories about ,, time travelers ,, ... Do not want to be in Stalin's perida, say, the spring of 1943?
        Only ORTHODOXY, only RIGHT relations between the creation of (man) and the Creator (God) allow to separate, wheat, from, chaff ,,,, rams, from, goats,, cholovki (sounds good in Ukrainian) from UFO. It’s like an OZK and a gas mask to protect against coronavirus, like a “gun”, a thermometer for remote temperature determination in the current pandemic.
        Without ORTHODOXY, human beings easily become successful. This was clearly demonstrated by both 1941 and 1991. .. And show our days. People without a threat are a DANGER for themselves, for those around them, for the country. This was well understood not only in the Russian Empire, but also, for example, in the Eastern Roman Empire of the XNUMXth (!!) Century. Understood and for and s and a and l and with b. With a UFO, NEVER succeeded and will not succeed ,, hug ,,,. As, for example, this did not work out for those who planned to make soap from your ancestors and those who defended the world from ,, brown ,, UFOs during WWII
        1. Bar1 31 March 2020 00: 51 New
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          Quote: evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru
          Adult people should know that not all, homo sapiens, human beings.


          This is true,
          but the time has come to throw stones ...
      4. Squelcher 30 March 2020 23: 46 New
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        The "bloody" royal regime.
        In total, from 1825 to 1905, 1397 people were sentenced to death in tsarist Russia, 894 people were executed. The military courts, operating for 8 months from 1906 to the beginning of 1907, issued a little more than a thousand death sentences, 683 people were actually executed.

        "Good humane communists"
        The number of executions is from 680 thousand for 1937-1938. According to the Special Department of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs on the number of those arrested and convicted by the bodies of the Cheka, OGPU, NKVD, and the Ministry of State Security of the USSR: from one and a half million arrested in 1937-1938 1.345 thousand were convicted, including 681.692 thousand were sentenced to capital punishment. From 1962 to 1989 about 22 thousand people were executed.
        1. Astra wild April 1 2020 16: 38 New
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          “a little more than a thousand death sentences were pronounced, 683 people were actually executed”, and how many were killed without trial?
          1. Squelcher April 2 2020 04: 18 New
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            Without trial, the Communists loved to kill according to the law of the "revolution."
          2. Pilat2009 April 6 2020 10: 05 New
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            Quote: Astra wild
            , 683 people were actually executed "

            They actually executed those who, according to the current classification, belonged to terrorists. Or did you kiss the gums for street battles of 1905? For the murder of civil servants, too?
    3. Deniska999 29 March 2020 09: 45 New
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      I will say a controversial thing. But even purely from an aesthetic and architectural point of view, many temples are truly masterpieces. Signed on instagram for one account, there they remove abandoned temples from the outback. And how many really magnificent buildings. It was just that they should not have been blown up, but left as museums, architectural monuments. After all, history.
      1. 210ox 29 March 2020 10: 51 New
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        This is not a controversial thing, really masterpieces. One must understand the psychology of that time. If the Russian State and the church were separated in the sense that the church did not intrude on secular issues and affairs, then people would behave differently with respect to priests and churches. Of course there was church oppression, from here and reaction. Although I consider that what is happening is overkill.
        1. vladcub 29 March 2020 15: 26 New
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          Comrades, Denisk and 210 OKV ,,, completely agree: there were amazing works of architecture: St. Basil's Cathedral, the Assumption Cathedral, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, the church in Kizhi. By the way, who knows what condition the church is in? Somewhere information flashed that the church was burned by the homeless and it was unlikely to be restored.
          It was much wiser to preserve these temples.
          With all due respect to the builders who restored the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, this is a remake. A remake is always inferior to the original.
          When you look at St. Isaac’s Cathedral or St. Basil’s Cathedral, one can imagine with what reverence and diligence the masons worked, and the remake, perhaps out of 10, is one believer who will do with reverential reverence
      2. Igoresha 29 March 2020 17: 15 New
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        there they remove abandoned temples from the outback

        on the channel Russia Culture at the beginning of this month there was a story about an abandoned church, and even more protected by the state, caring citizens at their own expense support the building as much as 4 can not let it fall apart. But the priests - no! not a penny! but to squeeze out part of the square under the temple or at the planetarium here they are the first.
      3. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 24 New
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        And who will contain?
      4. nikvic46 30 March 2020 08: 33 New
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        Of course, they had to be used as museums. But the former hooligan came to power, who used to write obscene inscriptions on fences, on monuments. "They were erased, but they reappeared." On the other hand, there was nowhere to step in every old city so that not to get to branch offices, cemeteries. They don’t write about it, but they punished for the demolition of a large church. And very strictly.
    4. Olgovich 29 March 2020 11: 06 New
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      Quote: withoutreverse
      Lies are the religion of slaves and masters. The truth is the god of a free man!»
      Maksim Gorky. At the bottom

      100 years have passed ..

      I completely agree: this is clearly seen in the example of the Bolsheviks: from the first moment of their existence to the last they Lied continuously: it’s enough to remember the terrible 33 year: they excitedly shouted that the peasants had begun ...wealthy people, and at this time, on a peaceful day, more of these "wealthy" died from hunger than died on the day ... BOB! And NONE of them remembered these fellow citizens, didn’t mention them, as they never had ....

      The same applies to Russian Culture: no one has ever brought her more damage, destruction, oblivion or destruction than they are: blown up, burned, plundered, corrupted tens of thousands of monumentsRussian Culture, Russian Glory, Russian Spirituality: more than HALF of historical buildings and monuments of the Kremlin, the tombs of POZHARSKY and MININ, BAGRATION and NAKHIMOV, KORNILOV and LAZAREV, the main monuments of the Revolution of 1812 and the Second World War, to the Russian commanders, writers, treasures, treasures, destroyed The glories, world monuments of Russian Architecture in Moscow, Vladimir, Suzdal, Petrozavodsk, etc., are burnt, cut, washed away millions of icons, paintings, frescoes, books, the names of Russian heroes immortalized on marble planks of Moscow, Kronstadt, Vladimir and pr-Razbi We turned into rubble and chopping blocks for cutting meat, in the Monument of Heroes of Plevna-made ... a toilet on the slabs with their names, like vandals of Ancient Rome, from a stone, for example, they built a valuable monument of the Russian barroco-temple of Dmitry Salunsky Suzdal ... hunchbacks, the ancient Kostroma Kremlin was blown up, the Monument-Temple of Pzharsky from getting rid of the Tatar invasion, etc., etc., there are numbers ....

      Many thanks to the author for the raised topic of preservation and restoration of the monuments of our beautiful CULTURE from nonexistence. hi
      1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 11: 36 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        The same applies to Russian Culture: no one has ever brought her more damage, destruction, oblivion or destruction than they

        The same can be said of the church - when Christianity was planted in Russia with fire and sword, all references to the pre-Christian history and culture of the Russian people were burned.
        1. Olgovich 29 March 2020 12: 24 New
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          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The same can be said of the church - when Christianity was planted in Russia with fire and sword, all references to the pre-Christian history and culture of the Russian people were burned.

          List scorched, specifically.
          Or WHAT then talk about?
          1. sniperino 29 March 2020 21: 25 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            List scorched, specifically.
            Everything: a book to Velesov, a museum of peruns, a messenger of the University of Gardamir ... You can’t list in total what you have been planning for 5 thousand years. The Sumerians were sailors, and the Russians were purely cultural.
            1. fuxila 30 March 2020 03: 54 New
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              The Messenger of Gardamir University loss, of course, great, but still the greatest moral suffering brings the loss of 30 volumes of the collected works of the sorcerer Perdonius, published in 2534 BC. e. in the printing house "Arrows of Perun" on the Kashcheyev pagan temple.
          2. nikvic46 30 March 2020 08: 35 New
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            Why did the Old Believers run? Under Peter the Great, and even earlier.
        2. vladcub 29 March 2020 15: 35 New
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          Here Fomenko and Co. now fantasize as they want.
          Just let me tell you: pagans with no less zeal fought with the first Christians. Another question was who was more cruel.
          ANY change of religion or ideology is accompanied by violence
          1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 15: 41 New
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            Quote: vladcub
            pagans with no less zeal fought with the first Christians

            In Rome, yes. In Russia, Christianity was planted from above, by decree. On the topic of violence, I completely agree with you, and therefore I hate the talk that the grateful people spat on the faith of their ancestors and joyfully adopted Christianity. hi
            1. vladcub 29 March 2020 16: 06 New
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              Here you can discuss a little bit. After all, Christians in Kiev were before St. Vladimir. True, he was not from the Puritans, but this is so in passing. It’s supposed that there were many Christians in Kiev
              1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 16: 11 New
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                Quote: vladcub
                that there were many Christians in Kiev

                There was no persecution of them, ridicule, no more.
                1. Leshy1975 29 March 2020 17: 04 New
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                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: vladcub
                  that there were many Christians in Kiev

                  There was no persecution of them, ridicule, no more.

                  At first, everything was not unambiguous with Christianity in Russia. Svyatoslav was defeated by the Byzantines in Bulgaria (near Dorostol in 971). Own Christian warriors were found guilty of which they committed massacre. And just as punishment Svyatoslav threatened to return to Kiev to other Christians.
                  “Then the devil recapture the hearts of the noblemen, the wicked, beginning to slander the Christians, being in the army, supposedly the fall of the howling happened from the anger of their false gods by Christians. He (Svyatoslav) was a little razviripe, as he did not spare his only brother Gleb ... They ( baptized Russes) with joy to torment the idah, and the faith of Christ will be repelled and worship idols not hotah ... he also seeing their disobedience, expressing himself at the presbyters most of all, supposedly by enchantment, they are repulsed by some people and they say they believe that the ambassador to Kiev, led the temples ruin the Christians and burn them. poidee cortex, although the Christians izgubiti "

                  According to some historians, it was the frightened residents of Kiev (from noble people) who were afraid of the return of Svyatoslav and were the force that set the Pechenegs against the returning Svyatoslav.
                  1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 17: 08 New
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                    Quote: Leshy1975
                    Own Christian warriors found guilty
                    History knows many examples of when traitors were citizens of the same faith as the enemy. request
                    Quote: Leshy1975
                    and were the force that set the Pechenegs on returning Svyatoslav.

                    It is also possible.
                    1. Leshy1975 29 March 2020 17: 21 New
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                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      Own Christian warriors found guilty
                      History knows many examples of when traitors were citizens of the same faith as the enemy. request
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      and were the force that set the Pechenegs on returning Svyatoslav.

                      It is also possible.

                      Here it is rather not about real betrayal, but about the conflict of Christianity with paganism.
                      Here (historical-articles.blogspot.com) you can read briefly about those events:
                      Svyatoslav was accompanied by priests who were to unravel the will of the gods. The priests, as the cause of the two defeats, indicated Christian warriors. The explanation could be extremely simple: the god of the Russians is indignant that part of the warriors converted to Christianity, and therefore does not want to help the Rus, among whom are warriors who believe in another god. It was then that the story told by Tatishchev happened. Those Christians who did not want to abdicate were executed, including the brother of Svyatoslav Gleb. And ambassadors were sent to Kiev with the order to destroy all Christian churches. This conflict, which occurred on religious grounds, was the first such conflict known to us from written sources. And precisely in it, obviously, lies the secret of the death of Svyatoslav.

                      PS It is hardly possible now to establish exactly how everything was in reality. But reading about those distant events is extremely interesting. hi
                      1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 17: 26 New
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                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        historical-articles.blogspot.com

                        I read, thanks. hi
                        P.S. Interestingly, the Greek historian Leo the Deacon calls the wars of Svyatoslav Scythians.
                      2. vladcub 29 March 2020 21: 01 New
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                        History must be carefully read: it teaches a lot. In Gorky, Isergil said something interesting about this. Unfortunately, I read it a long time ago and I don’t remember her words
                      3. Astra wild April 1 2020 16: 42 New
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                        Take and read so as not to regret
              2. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 18: 03 New
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                Quote: Ingvar 72
                ridicule, no more

                They killed on confessional grounds. Even in the annals of this is said. Not that much, but it happened. And it happened more often than Christians killed the Gentiles.
                1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 18: 26 New
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                  Hello Michael. hi
                  Quote: Trilobite Master
                  And it happened more often than Christians killed the Gentiles.

                  It depends on what period of time. In the pre-Christian era, (not that many) Christians were killed. After the adoption of Christianity, the nobility of Russia began a much more widespread persecution of the pagans. There are few references to pagan persecution in history, but here you need to understand that the real picture is more bloody. Because the official chroniclers were engaged, and were silent about the real rejection of Christianity of the people. As the ratings are being straightened to the president. as they now report on negative growth in reality. The winners write the story.
                  1. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 19: 02 New
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                    Yes, Igor, good evening. hi
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    The history is written by the winners.

                    Nevertheless, the annals reflect both the facts of the beating of pagans by Christians and the opposite facts. The chroniclers, of course, gave their interpretation of what was happening, but they did not gloss over the facts. In any case, it would be nice for a person who claims the opposite to reinforce his words with something other than his own speculation.
                    Yes, chroniclers wrote something like "impelled by the devil, godless nasty" and, of course, interpreted these or other excesses exclusively in one direction, they say they are bad, inspired by the devil, and those are martyrs (if they died) or heroes (if they won ), but they did not hide the facts of indignation and punitive operations (when they were).
                    Christianity in Russia was not approved at once, it can be seen, but there was no significant, ideological, organized opposition; moreover, prayer and sorcery existed side by side for a very long and relatively painless time, and in many ways, they exist now, take the same pancakes Shrovetide, Christmas carnivals, etc. The Soviet historians unambiguously perceived and interpreted those performances that took place against Christianity in Russia as episodes of the class struggle or, at best, political struggles for power, this may not be entirely true, but, nevertheless, a rational kernel in these constructions, certainly there is considerable. The basis of conflicts in the form of religious hatred has always and everywhere been the economy, and religious differences only painted it in different colors, giving some variety and national color. Russia is fully concerned.
                    1. vladcub 29 March 2020 21: 12 New
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                      Michael, good evening. You raised an interesting topic: the growth of paganism into Christianity. Probably, the following was observed with Shrovetide and Easter: in the villages a new faith and an old one coexisted for a long time. Gradually in popular perception, paganism is intertwined with Christianity.
                    2. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 23: 18 New
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                      Greetings, colleague. hi
                      The topic is really interesting, as far as I know, this issue has been studied enough, but personally he never really interested me. In general, religious topics require, let’s say, specific training. smile
                      However, it is safe to say that Christianity also has its roots in paganism, and paganism is always based on observation of natural phenomena, primarily the sun. The main Christian holidays, in fact, are the same as those of the Gentiles - the days of the solstice and equinox, certain "pagan" gods, etc., correspond to certain saints who are "responsible" for some "own" branch of activity, therefore, the first easily and, as it were, of course, replaced the latter. The ritual part of pagan beliefs lasted the longest and, one might say, partially holds still until now, in any case, in those places where traditions are strong. Yes, and in a city where traditions are weak, they still say do pah-pah-pah over his left shoulder or say "chur me." smile
                    3. Astra wild 30 March 2020 18: 00 New
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                      Mikhail, you’re right: for example, in order not to jinx a knock on a tree, I like cats, but I like them to cross
                    4. Trilobite Master 30 March 2020 18: 26 New
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                      Quote: Astra wild
                      knock on wood

                      But this superstition is more likely from the Christian tradition. The cross on which Jesus was crucified was wooden - hence the custom.
      2. Sugar Honeyovich 30 March 2020 14: 01 New
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        Quote: vladcub
        After all, Christians in Kiev were before St. Vladimir. ... One must think that there were many Christians in Kiev

        Enough to declare them to those who are now called the "fifth column" and arrange mass repressions against them with a massive pogrom of temples ...
  • Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 04: 03 New
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    Lies are the inheritance and skate of Olga and those like him. Pro-American and Pro-British protagonists of the Tsar’s Princess.
    1. 16329 30 March 2020 11: 21 New
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      Remember, as in the White Guard at Bulgakov, "In Russia - the Orthodox Faith, Autocratic Power, everything else is madness"
      By the way, especially for the “Communists and other leftists," you do not agree with Stalin, who restored the Patriarchate for some reason during the crucial period of the war?
      I guess he just did it
      Well, regarding Gorky (Peshkov), an ordinary liberal writer, Nietzschean in his youth, bohemian in adulthood, a Gulag singer at the end of his life, is absolutely unprincipled, but you can only read from him “The Life of Klim Samgin”

      And to neopagans - forward to Ukraine, to good offices, there are your ideological friends
      Orthodoxy is the foundation of Russia, our ancestors gave life for it and accepted innumerable sufferings, it supports and saves us in difficult times
      1. Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 13: 18 New
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        Well, and what does all that you have written have to do with Olgych’s deceit?
        Quote: 16329
        Do you disagree with Stalin, who restored the Patriarchate for some reason during the crucial period of the war?
        And what does this have to do with the deceit of Olga? Well restored, so what? Stalin and Churchill met at conferences that from this Church became a friend of Russia? It was just that Stalin needed a tool to confront the ROCOR, is he aware of their anti-Soviet, and therefore Russophobic, position?
        1. 16329 30 March 2020 14: 19 New
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          Everything is simple for you, like Stalin needed the instrument, and the appeal “Brothers and Sisters ...”, and the order of Alexander Nevsky, gold epaulets, etc.
          These are all tools ...
          Russian patriotism is a tool of Stalin, in your opinion

          It’s just that Stalin was the only one of the Soviet leaders who fully understood the value of the spiritual Factor in the life of the people and the country, relying on the traditional values ​​of Russia, he saved both his system of power and Russia,
          Unfortunately, his close-minded followers forgot about it, Khrushchev began New persecutions of the church, he was actively supported by the children of the uninhabited “Commissars in dusty helmets,” and this ultimately led to the collapse of the USSR and the terrible time of the 90s In an atmosphere of longing and unbelief
          But in the midst of all this horror and nightmare, having crossed out all forecasts and theories, traditional Russia began to rise again, in the most remote places new churches and monasteries were restored and erected, symbolizing the revival of Russian Orthodoxy as the spiritual basis of Russian statehood
          1. Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 14: 24 New
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            Quote: 16329
            Russian patriotism is a tool of Stalin, in your opinion
            Namely, not so much Russian as Soviet.
            Quote: 16329
            Unfortunately, his close-minded followers forgot about this, Khrushchev began a new persecution of the church
            Khrushchev is a follower of Stalin? Are you raving
            Quote: 16329
            in the most remote places new temples and monasteries were restored and erected
            Oh yeah! That is the recent protests against the "temples within walking distance" appeared.
            1. 16329 30 March 2020 14: 35 New
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              Of course, Khrushchev is a follower of Stalin, the head of the same state, one of his closest associates,
              and Stalin’s appeal to Russian patriotism is his logical choice after abandoning the “world revolution”, the course towards “socialism in a separate country” and in conditions of conflict with the Trotskyists-Leftists
              And the same ones who go to left-liberal rallies in Moscow are protesting against the temples
              This is normal
              Leftists and liberals are always allies in the struggle against Russia, as has always been
              1. Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 14: 38 New
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                Quote: 16329
                And the same ones who go to left-liberal rallies in Moscow are protesting against the temples
                There’s no need of lies, the locals go, who need a square and not another chapel with Lexus at the entrance.
                1. 16329 30 March 2020 15: 39 New
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                  In the "crowd" are always ordinary people, and they suffer from the actions of revolutionaries of all types.
                  1. Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 18: 22 New
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                    Quote: 16329
                    In the "crowd" are always ordinary people

                    People like you and Olgych always refuse to “ordinary people” the right to think independently.
                  2. 16329 30 March 2020 18: 28 New
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                    Ordinary people have no time to “think”, they are busy with business, and this is often used by some, so to speak, “thinkers”
                  3. Vladimir_2U 31 March 2020 06: 42 New
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                    Quote: 16329
                    Ordinary people have no time to “think”, they are busy with business
                    Yes, it’s already clear that it is harmful for a “simple” person to have free time, he must either work hard to hernia, or pray, as in "Russia that we lost." You probably regret that the Bolsheviks and Communists did not understand this, and limited the working time to 8 hours and canceled the obligatory "sacraments" of the "shepherds".
      2. Astra wild 30 March 2020 18: 07 New
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        I am not pleased to recognize this, but you are right: "the only Soviet leader understood the significance of the spiritual factor"
  • Simargl 30 March 2020 08: 05 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    continuously LIED: it’s enough to recall the terrible 33 year: they shouted excitedly that the peasants had become .... wealthy people
    Lying you!
    Peasants, with the exception of the kulaks, who "pressed" almost the entire village, lived very poorly.
    If we compare the economic situation of the peasant under tsarist and Soviet rule, it turns out that the average peasant began to live better (tolerably), and his fist was relocated or even shot. We will not speak about the causes, necessity, and excesses during collectivization.
    1. Olgovich 30 March 2020 08: 35 New
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      Quote: Simargl
      You are lying!

      You are given a SPECIFIC example, you are in response, an empty CHAW.
      Quote: Simargl
      If we compare the economic situation of the peasant under tsarist and Soviet rule, it turns out that the average peasant began to live better
      owls peasants paid tribute that power (as Stalin put it), and the defeated people pay tribute.

      Even just EAT, as in 1913, they could only be forty years later (Report of the Central Statistical Board of the CCS 55 g).

      So RUN FOR ALL FORCES from the damned impoverished village — from slavishly unpaid labor and hopeless life: only in the Non-Chernozem Region by 1985 did empty MILLIONS of residential buildings and MILLIONS of abandoned arable land, pastures and vanished ...60 Russian villages-catastrophe!
      1. Vladimir_2U 30 March 2020 13: 21 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        You are given a SPECIFIC example, you are in response, an empty CHAW.

        Is this such a concrete example? Now this is nothing unsupported besides the oblique font?
        Quote: Olgovich
        it’s enough to recall the terrible year 33: they shouted excitedly that the peasants had become .... wealthy people,
      2. Simargl 30 March 2020 17: 21 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        You are given a SPECIFIC example
        Specific LIES! What I pointed out.

        Quote: Olgovich
        peasants paid tribute
        The peasants paid dues and tithes. The peasants did not even pay tribute to the "Mongolo-Tatars"! You're lying again.

        Quote: Olgovich
        Even just EAT, as in 1913 they could only forty years later
        The fact that Russia was ahead of the pace of production in some countries is just statistics for the sake of royal worshipers! If you look at GDP per capita, production efficiency, etc. - We were approximately at the level of modern Cote d'Ivoire (exaggerate).

        Quote: Olgovich
        That's RUN ALL FORCES from the damned impoverished village
        The whole history of industrialization is fleeing from the village, if you do not know. Moreover, in enlightened England, people from the earth were driven by fire and sword! Do not know this or omit this fact to lie?
        Moreover, as soon as the industrialization of the village happened, an insane amount of hands was released! If you consider it simple - one person can work with a power of 150-200 watts, a horse - 400-1000 watts (peasant-400-600 watts, because they were inferior, if any). The first tractors - from 15 kW, i.e. were more powerful than 100 people or 25-35 horses, while the attendants for one tractor were 2-3 people (from the operator to the tanker), and he can work almost around the clock.
        Simply put, you are misleading the people by incorrectly indicating causal relationships.
        Yes, the equipment was always expensive and the one-on-one could not purchase it and increase its productivity tenfold. And this is the reason and the need for collectivization. But you do not mention it. Why? you do not know, or with the aim of misleading people?

        Quote: Olgovich
        and ... 60 Russian villages are a disaster!
        What a horror! Stalin shot? Or did people stupidly leave the risky farming zone for a long ruble and a better share? Those. you mislead people, focusing on the "terrible destruction" (what?) !!!

        Quote: Olgovich
        By 1985, the non-chernozem region was empty POMILLION residential buildings and MILLIONS of abandoned arable land, pastures
        And what about the production? Did it fall? Yes!!!...
        ... oh! No! You're Lying Again! People threw the "bad" land, unable to withstand competition with black soil and fertilizers. This is how to compare the price of potatoes: if imported from chernozem, it costs 30 r / kg on the market, and if grown by oneself, it is 300 r / kg. But either you don’t understand, or you LIE that you don’t understand how the prime cost of a crucian can be 10000 r per kg
        1. Olgovich 30 March 2020 19: 21 New
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          Quote: Simargl
          Specific LIES! What I pointed out.

          Get the ignoramus on:
          From the speech of the party leader Feb 19 1933 g (hunger peak)
          By expanding the collective farm construction, we have ensured that all this mass of poor people are involved in collective farms, gave them a secure existence there

          What does it mean? This means that at least 20 million peasants, at least 20 million poor turned in SECURED people.

          This is a great achievement, comrades. That is achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet reached.

          On this day, about 20 "wealthy people" died of starvation, as on other days from autumn 000 to summer 32.
          Indeed, the world did NOT know SUCH in its history, and even in peacetime.

          Chop it on your forehead
          Quote: Simargl
          The peasants paid dues and tithes. The peasants did not even pay tribute to the "Mongolo-Tatars"! You're lying again.

          Get, ignoramus, at:
          Stalin: In this case, the situation with the peasantry is as follows: it pays the state not just regular taxes, direct and indirecte but it still overpaying at relatively high prices for industrial goods - this is, firstly, and more or less less than on prices of agricultural products - this is the second.

          It is peasant surcharge in the interest of raising industry serving the whole country, including the peasantry. It is like “TRIBUTE”something like supertax which we are forced to take temporarily in order to maintain and develop further the current pace of industrial development, to provide industry for the whole country, to further increase the welfare of the village and then completely destroy this additional tax, these “scissors” between the city and the village.

          This tribute remained until 1953
          Quote: Simargl
          that Russia was ahead of the pace of production in some countries - this is just statistics for the sake of royal worshipers!

          ONCE AGAIN, for the dull: Even EAT, as in 1913 they could only forty years later (Report of the Central Statistical Board of the CCS 55 g).
          Quote: Simargl
          The whole history of industrialization is fleeing from the village, if you do not know. Moreover, in enlightened England, people from the earth were driven by fire and sword! Do not know this or omit this fact to lie?
          Moreover, as soon as the industrialization of the village happened, an insane amount of hands was released!

          Ignoramus-read the reports on DKK shortage of workers in the farm since the end of the 30s and on
          Quote: Simargl
          What a horror! Stalin shot? Or did people stupidly leave the risky farming zone for a long ruble and a better share?

          RUN from convict low-paid labor, WILD social conditions, lawlessness and poverty.

          And the depopulated Non-Black Earth Region, the HEART of Russia, is TRAGEDY, if it does not.
          Quote: Simargl
          People threw "bad" land, unable to withstand competition with black soil and fertilizers.

          THOUSAND YEARS, Russian people FATCHED for this "bad", native Russian land with everyone and only YOURS with their unbearable conditions they were forced to flee from it ...
          1. Simargl 31 March 2020 07: 59 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            Get the ignoramus
            Take this unconfirmed information for yourself. The data are not confirmed by anyone other than anti-Soviet propaganda, but there you can find a million a day.

            Quote: Olgovich
            Indeed, the world did NOT know SUCH in its history, and even in peacetime.
            In pre-revolutionary Russia, this is a cyclic process: hungry years with not weak hungry pestilence. The people fled with black earth because of this. To Siberia. From the black earth to Siberia. You do not know? Find out. And do not lie!

            Quote: Olgovich
            It is sort of “TRIBUTE”
            The word "like" - devalues ​​your efforts. It means that the word "tribute" is used as an analogy.

            Quote: Olgovich
            RUN from convict low-paid labor, WILD social conditions, lawlessness and poverty.
            So rural labor has always been harder than urban! In the city and fled. And now they are running.

            Quote: Olgovich
            ONCE AGAIN, for the dull: Even EAT, as in 1913 they could only forty years later (Report of the Central Statistical Board of the CCS 55 g).
            So, what do we have?
            istmat.info/node/18419
            An analysis of the text of the report shows that you Lying!!! Yes, they began to eat less bread, but they began to eat better and more varied.

            Quote: Olgovich
            THOUSAND YEARS, Russian people FATCHED for this "bad", native Russian land with everyone and only YOURS with their unbearable conditions they were forced to flee from it ...
            You are not even trying to analyze what is written. I wrote that I fled from economic inexpediency to economic ... expediency and prosperity. And for a thousand years ... they did the same thing, it was just better in the same place than where they had fled. History needs not only to be taught, but also to be kicked.
            1. Olgovich 31 March 2020 09: 53 New
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              Quote: Simargl
              Take this unconfirmed information for yourself. The data are not confirmed by anyone other than anti-Soviet propaganda, but there you can find a million a day.

              Quotations are given, ignoramus.
              Multi-million the victims were confirmed by ALL - a spread of 3 to 10 million (including the Soviet Urlanis), the official figure in RUSSIA -7 million people died of starvation in the USSR in 32-33 g: believe it, don’t believe, sneeze on it.
              Quote: Simargl
              In pre-revolutionary Russia, this is a cyclic process: hungry years with not weak hungry pestilence.

              WHEN it comes ?! There were NOT starvation deaths in Russia after 1891, even the conscientious "scientists" did not write such a thing, did it come to that, didn’t it?
              Quote: Simargl
              The word "like" - devalues ​​your efforts. It means that the word "tribute" is used as analogies.

              lol laughing Ignoramus, analogy (from Greek analogia matching) is the similarity between objects, phenomena, etc..
              Those. SAME.
              Got it, no?
              Quote: Simargl
              So rural labor has always been harder than urban! In the city and fled. And now they are running.

              In Russia it was the VILLAGE that was young and inhabited.
              Quote: Simargl
              So, what do we have?
              istmat.info/node/18419
              The analysis of the text of the report shows that you are Lying !!! Yes, they began to eat less bread, but they began to eat better and more varied.

              Analysis RECOGNIZES that by age 50 only caught up RUSSIA 1913 on meat, milk, etc.

              During this time, normal countries have gone MUCH forward
              Quote: Simargl
              You are not even trying to analyze what is written. I wrote that I fled from economic inexpediency to economic ... expediency and prosperity.

              Quite right: from that wild poverty and disorder arranged by YOURS in the village, people who had lived quietly on the earth for hundreds of years fled from it, as if from fire, there was nothing to work for!
              And they got to .... shopping for food abroad, a disgrace ......
              1. Astra wild 31 March 2020 17: 04 New
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                “Only by the 50s did they catch up with Russia 1913”, and the period of the Second World War did not affect the countryside? How many collective farmers died, and how many collective farm cattle and equipment were lost?
                1. Olgovich April 1 2020 06: 37 New
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                  Quote: Astra wild
                  “Only by the 50s did they catch up with Russia 1913”, and the period of the Second World War did not affect the countryside? How many collective farmers died, and how many collective farm cattle and equipment were lost?

                  Just study the ORIGINALS: after all the "battles for bread" and the "stunning" victories of the collective farms, in 1937 (the year declared "socialism" was built), people ate, dressed and lived (m2) much worse than 1913 (Report of the Central Statistical Bureau 1955) and thousands swelled and starved to death (see the NKVD reports on Istmat).

                  These are just FACTS.

                  Too-WWII is to blame?
  • EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 26 New
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    LIEDS: it’s enough to recall the terrible year 33: they shouted excitedly that the peasants had become .... well-off people, and at that time, on a peaceful day, more of these “well-offs” were dying of hunger than they were dying per day ... ! And NONE of them remembered these fellow citizens, didn’t mention them, as they never had


    If God punished for a lie, then you should have been struck by lightning for this verbal diarrhea. Go learn the materiel, Hitler’s extortion. Did not finish you in the 45th unfortunately.
    1. Olgovich 30 March 2020 13: 32 New
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      Quote: EvilLion
      If God punished for a lie, then you should have been struck by lightning for this verbal diarrhea.

      WHAT is a lie, a liar? fool
      Quote: EvilLion
      Go learn the materiel, Hitler’s extortion. Not finished off you in the 45th unfortunately.

      Judging by this "odorous" mixture, you feed in lol laughing
  • Sugar Honeyovich 30 March 2020 14: 37 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    they constantly LIED: it’s enough to remember the terrible 33 year: they shouted excitedly that the peasants had become .... wealthy people, and at that time, on a peaceful day, more of these “wealthy” died from hunger than they died per day .. .ВОВ!

    Well, judging by the stories of the peasants themselves, this, if not a lie, is not continuous at all: "Hunger? On the contrary, 1933 was a full year! They got so much bread for workdays - they transported them to their homes with wagons!"
    Quote: Olgovich
    The same applies to Russian Culture: no one has ever brought her more damage, destruction, oblivion or destruction than they

    "Vernadsky-son wrote (by the way, in the same 1927 when his father quoted the speech above) in his" Inscription of Russian History ", published in Prague, that by the last third of the XVIII century" was about and that there are a number of recipients of r x with a r and x m a n c a r a t y (discharge of G.V. Vernadsky. - V.K.). .. Of the 732 monasteries (not counting the south-western region) 161 were left; out of 222 women’s, only 39 ... [So, out of 954 monasteries, 754 were liquidated, and only 200 remained ... It was a crushing blow to the entire historical system of religious and moral education of the Russian people ... The role of the Church’s surrogate in the nobility (partly in the merchants' society of the times of Catherine began to play Masonic lodges ... "(V.V. Kozhinov).
    Given the fact that the Bolsheviks, along with the demolition of monuments and temples, STRONGLY INCREASED the culture (the created masterpieces received world recognition!) Of the peoples of Russia, the statement: "no one has ever brought ... more damage ... than they" at least needs verification .... what
    1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 16: 33 New
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      There the famine is very peculiar, the whole village could be with bread except for a couple of huts for those who did not want to go to collective farms, but cut ears of wheat on collective farm fields at night.
      1. Simargl 30 March 2020 17: 25 New
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        Quote: EvilLion
        Yes, spikelets on collective farm fields at night cut
        Yeah. One such overt confessed: what are the spikelets? The carts dragged!
    2. Olgovich 30 March 2020 19: 49 New
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      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      Well, judging by the stories of the peasants themselves, this, if not a lie, is not continuous at all: "Hunger? On the contrary, 1933 was a full year! They got so much bread for workdays - they transported them to their homes with wagons!"

      Is there anything human left? belay
      These were PEOPLE, OUR compatriots !!
      7 March 1933 city
      TSA FSB of the Russian Federation. F. 2. Op. 11. D. 42. L. 62, 63, 64.

      Page 2
      YEY DISTRICT. Village Dolzhanskaya - 22 / II Commission found that tr. G **** used in food corpse owl dead sister.

      In the same village, it was established that group D *** remained after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

      St. Novo-Scherbinovskaya. In the 3rd collective farm brigade, wife E *** hacked and ate her 3 year old child, the family E *** consists of 8 people who eat various surrogates (surepa, silo, etc.) and meat of cats and dogs.

      In the 3rd brigade, wife C *** drags corpses of children from a cemetery and eats. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
      A girl’s corpse was found in the apartment with her legs cut off and boiled meat was found.

      such documents, thousands ....
      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      Given the fact that the Bolsheviks, along with the demolition of monuments and temples, intensified their culture

      Here it is:
      tens of thousands of monuments of Russian Culture, Russian Glory, Russian Spirituality were blown up, burned, looted, plundered: more than HALF of historical buildings and monuments of the Kremlin, the tombs of POZHARSKY and MININ, BAGRATION and NAKHIMOV, KORNILOV and LAZROVOV, 1812, the main monuments of Lazarev, XNUMX, and Lazarev, were destroyed; and writers, cemeteries of OV, TWOV, the Column of Glory, world monuments of Russian Architecture in Moscow, Vladimir, Suzdal, Petrozavodsk, etc., etc., burned, cut, washed away millions of icons, paintings, frescoes, books, the names of Russian heroes, cripples numbered on the marble planks of Moscow, Kronstadt, Vladimir and others-BROKEN and turned into rubble and chopping blocks for cutting meat, in the Monument of Heroes of Plevna-made ... a toilet on the slabs with their names, like vandals of Ancient Rome, made of stone, for example, the most valuable a monument to the Russian barroco-temple of Dmitry Salunsky Suzdal was built ... a hunchback, the ancient Kostroma Kremlin was blown up, the Monument-Temple of Pzharsky from deliverance from the Tatar invasion and pr and pr
      ?
      You just tell me, WHAT else even the external enemy did SUCH?
      1. Sugar Honeyovich 31 March 2020 14: 21 New
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        Quote: Olgovich
        These were PEOPLE, OUR compatriots

        Just like these.
        Quote: Olgovich
        Here it is:

        And also the introduction of free education, the creation of writing for small nations, the creation - during the civil war! - scientific institutions, mass book publishing (including many translations of foreign literature), the creation of MASTERPIECES of cinema, painting, literature, sculptures, etc. Moreover, with the goal of creating not narrow, "flux-like" specialists, but diversified culturally developed people.
        As a result, according to the observation of our enemies:
        - (Soldier of the Red Army) “This is not the“ brave man ”that we knew during the World War. Its cultural level became much higher, the general outlook broadened and technical literacy increased. This was facilitated by the raising of public education, the influx of the rural population into the city and the development of industry ,,. ”
        - “Many believe that Bolshevism brought the Russians out of limitation”
        1. Olgovich 31 March 2020 15: 50 New
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          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          Just like these.

          what are these?
          I'm about the DEAD, for a few months , from hunger MILLIONS of compatriots, about whom yours were choking at the same time:
          Expanding collective farm construction, WE have achieved the fact that all this mass of poor people was involved in collective farms, given they have a secure existence there

          Etoh great achievement, comrades. It an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet reached.

          This KEM had to be in order to a speak in such days? belay no
          Something human, there must be .... no
          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          And the introduction of free education,

          it was before them.
          Education is THREATENED by them: in their ten years, NONE of a new school, before the Thieves, 4-5 thousand new schools each year, because of this, millions received education later
          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          creation - during the civil war! - scientific institutions

          Oh, stupid foreign tourists .... brought, after all, scientists from the doormans? lol Or at least ..... lol
          Ahh, they invented TITLES for the departments of RUSSIAN AN! fool lol
          By the beginning of the 20s, Russian science was almost destroyed by them - read OLDENBURG, President of the USSR Academy of Sciences
          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          mass book publishing

          Before them, 120 million were published in Russia, and not propaganda shit, but present literature: when caught up with it, eh?
          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          the creation of MASTERPIECES of cinema, painting, literature, sculptures, etc.

          List the "MASTERPIECES": it is apparently wild for bad taste, ridiculous "empire lol "Stalin" instead of the blown up MASTERPIECES of Russian baroque, Sukharev tower, etc.
          "Girl with an oar" instead of a monument to Skobelev?
          apparently anti-advisers Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, nobleman Simonov, Astafiev, Akhmatova, Pamternak, etc., etc.?
          Russian ballet?
          WHAT for the soul? ALL-rooted, soul, foundation-from RUSSIA, from its ETERNAL, Daugasseurs of CULTURE.

          Yours is “girls with oars” and “Love of labor bees” with -The poor demons ....

          In the field is a tyr-tyr-tyr tractor,
          We are for happiness, we are for peace.
          lol
          1. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 06: 14 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            what are these

            Our same people, whom I remember 1933 as “well-fed,” such as “the old Kulbashny people will receive a little less money, but many times more bread - up to 34 centners of wheat. And besides - vegetables, potatoes, honey, etc. Kulbashnyy could not even dream of such incomes during the period of his slave labor, and in the first years of the commune’s existence, "those who survived the famine in 1933 and explained its reasons by saying that" they did not manage to enter the collective farm’s strength ", because this famine was, according to them, one of many similar to it in the pre-collective farm era, finally those who died of starvation under the kings, and of whom modern ignoramuses and liars say: "After 1891 no one died of hunger." Indeed, whether (and indeed!) These liars left something human!

            Quote: Olgovich
            And the introduction of free education,
            it was before them.

            Just what is called, men did not know.
            Quote: Olgovich
            in their ten years, NONE of one new school

            Lies are thousands of NEW schools.
            Quote: Olgovich
            they invented TITLES for the branches of the Russian Academy of Sciences!

            And to them - they created the departments themselves, which did not previously exist.
            Quote: Olgovich
            By the early 20s, Russian science was almost DESTROYED.

            Two zeros were not printed - by the beginning of the 2000s. Correct.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Before them-120 million was published

            And with them - many times more. At first. Then - in tens and hundreds.
            Quote: Olgovich
            not shit of propaganda, but real literature

            Yes exactly. "Herm" in the USSR never printed. Neither "propaganda" nor any other. It was not the time and the wrong manners.
            Quote: Olgovich
            when caught up with it, eh?

            They themselves understood what they said, eh? How can someone catch up with ALWAYS AHEAD? Got it, no?
            Quote: Olgovich
            List the "MASTERPIECES":

            Please: these are both the buildings of Stalin’s Empire style, magnificent in aesthetics, these are the modernized “Venus de Milo” of the 20th century - “Girls with an oar”, this “Worker and a collective farmer” - according to fashion lawmakers “the greatest sculpture of the XNUMXth century”, these are different sculptures, films, paintings, received hundreds of different prizes in the "capital of fashion", etc. etc.
            Quote: Olgovich
            anti-advisers Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, nobleman Simonov, Astafiev, Akhmatova, Pamternak

            Quote: Olgovich
            ALL-rooted, soul, foundation-from RUSSIA

            Again - did the men know? Am I talking about the "anti-Soviet"? laughing
            And as for the roots and foundations - right - they were the heirs of the revolutionaries Andreev and Balmont, Bunin and Gorky, Korolenko and Kuprin, Teleshov and Leo Tolstoy, Chekhov and Shmelev.
            And, as everyone knows (except the most dense ignoramuses), the Great Socialist Revolution has grown its foundation from RUSSIA. And it wasn’t, as some liars ridiculously claim, brought from somewhere by some "foreign tourists" who did not exist in nature ...
            1. Olgovich April 1 2020 07: 43 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Our same people, whom I remember 1933 as “well-fed,” such as “the old Kulbashny people will receive a little less money, but many times more bread - up to 34 centners of wheat. And besides - vegetables, potatoes, honey, etc. Kulbashnyy could not even dream of such incomes during the period of his labor, and in the first years of the existence of the commune, "

              Yes, yes, that’s why .... RUN all these kulbashi from these “happy” collective farms, apparently from a “happy” life!
              And who didn’t run away, drank too much or died without leaving ANYTHING to the children after their hard labor.
              It "nothing“- and that was all they earned in the country of“ soviets. ”See WHAT the peasants left for the children in Europe.
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              in the first years of the commune’s existence, he couldn’t even dream ", those who survived the famine in 1933 and explained its reasons by saying that"did not have time to enter by virtue of the collective farm, "

              Ignoramus, by the age of 33 we entered the same way: the number of cattle was reduced .... TWO-TIME, and in some places the army had to process the fields — people fled from “happiness”!
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              approved by him in pre-collective farm times, finally those who died of starvation under the kings, and of whom modern ignoramuses and liars say: "After 1891, no one died of hunger"

              Give, LIAR, the data of even Soviet false scientists, propagandists about the deaths of the hungry after 1891.
              33 g peaceful famine - the worst in the history of mankind - in no africa this happened ...
              And the gold was ALWAYS at your side, and they died from it in 1922, 24, 25, 27, 32,33, 37, 47.gg.

              Yes, human request
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Just what is called, men did not know.

              Didn't you study at school? Oh yes, that truth school wasn’t taught ...
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And to them - created the offices themselvespreviously unexisting.

              Did the Marxist instinct suggest? lol So among them were, nevertheless, scientists? Reveal the SECRET of surnames, otherwise they are bashfully silent fool lol
              PS When you start frantically picking "scientists" bolshoviks lol lol read about COMMISSION FOR THE STUDY OF NATURAL PRODUCTION FORCES OF RUSSIA (KEPS)- maybe something will come
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And with them - many times more. At first. Then - in tens and hundreds.

              First, FIG. Those. Russia has already appeared in the red.
              Do not forget about the FORBIDDEN and destroyed books-animal fear was yours ....
              And then, even under RUSSIA, it would be THOUSAND times more. How did this happen in real life WORLDWIDE,
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

              Yes exactly. "ma" in the USSR never printed. Neither "" nor any other. It was not the time and the wrong manners.

              belay lol Much more than half-propaganda bullshit:
              spring has passed - summer has come
              -Thank you PARTIES-for this!
              fool lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              They themselves understood what they said, eh? How can someone catch up going ALWAYS FORWARD?
              belay fool lol
              You haven’t finished the IML, ignoramus?
              1922 - the total book production for this year amounted to 307,3 million impression sheets, which equal to 45 percent average annual leafage of 1913

              Got it, no?
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              magnificent buildings of the Stalinist Empire,

              stupid kitsch and cynical feast during a plague in a ruined country
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              upgraded "Venus de Milo" of the 20th century - "Girls with a paddle"

              spruce-fires .... SUCH yet not met belay lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              other sculptures, films, paintings.

              BEFORE THE THIES, there was no Russian Culture, yeah, and, of course, without the thief, in the 1960s, for example, years, it would not have existed fool
              it would have been MUCH MORE if yours had not been physically destroyed by the prohibitions of Russian writers and poets.
              Got it, no?
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And as for the roots and stems - right - they were heirs revolutionaries Andreev and Balmont, Bunin and Gorky, Korolenko and Kuprin, Teleshov and L.N. Tolstoy, Chekhov and Shmelev.

              .... STA ?! belay revolutionaries ... CHEKHOV, TOLSTOY, BUNIN ?!
              You are definitely from IML lol : I.A. Bunin about Ulyanov-Lenin:
              “Dock, moral iiot from birth.
              He ravaged the world's greatest country and killed several million people ...

              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And, as everyone knows (except the most dense ignoramuses), the Great Socialist Revolution has grown its foundation from RUSSIA. And it wasn’t, as some liars ridiculously claim, brought from somewhere by some "foreign tourists" who did not exist in nature ...

              From World War I and Intourism, it was brought by aliens who lived half the conscious life in foreign tourism, who did not know their native country, who hated it and its people.
              1. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 16: 38 New
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                Quote: Olgovich
                RUN ALL of these kulbash from these "happy" collective farms, from a "happy" life, apparently!

                Did you know Kulbashi? And did you live at that time?
                Quote: Olgovich
                And who didn’t run away, drank too much or died without leaving ANYTHING to the children after their hard labor.

                In addition to many of those who calmly survived to old age retirement and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of goodness, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book.
                And in the city, so that you, an ignoramus, know, do not run away, but move. Collective farms were created for this in general - for the sake of eradicating centuries of poverty in the countryside (from which they fled to the ends of the world in tsarist times) and the resettlement of peasants in the city. It happened, even in administrative order.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Ignoramus, by the year 33 they entered, and also as

                How do you like to say: did you live at that time? Tell contemporaries about the "entered and how." fool
                Quote: Olgovich
                Give, LIAR, the data of even Soviet false scientists, propagandists about the deaths of the hungry after 1891.

                I to you - to you personally, liar! - cited information from a pre-Soviet source. In response to the exact same hysterical request. Do you have memory problems?
                Quote: Olgovich
                Didn't you study at school? Oh yes, that truth school wasn’t taught

                In that, yes, the truth was not taught. Because the church was not separated from the TOY school.
                "- Father, why does a teacher in high school say that the earth is a million
                years worth, and not as in God's law - five thousand ... - and immediately a donkey from
                screaming cry of father Basil:
                “What did you say, bastard?” Here you are, as you learn the word of God!
                Before Pavka even uttered a hoot, the priest grabbed him by both ears and began
                hammer your head against the wall. After a minute, beaten and scared, his
                thrown into the corridor. "
                And then: “In September 1920, at the age of thirteen, I myself could personally experience the advantages of a new life. Before the revolution, the peasant’s son would hardly dare even dream of secondary school education, if only his parents could scrap each month 10 rubles in gold - and this was just the fee for studying at the gymnasium, plus the money for uniforms and textbooks. Now, when the education at the second-level school became free and the form was canceled, the costs were reduced to a minimum. " (S.P. Ivanov).
                Quote: Olgovich
                Did the Marxist instinct suggest?

                I, unlike you, prefer knowledge of facts to instinct. To anyone.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Do not forget about the FORBIDDEN and destroyed books-animal fear was yours ..

                Well, compared with your fear (up to asking for confession) - it's just a standard of fearlessness ... yes
                Quote: Olgovich
                Far more than half-propaganda bullshit

                2/3? 3/4? 9/10? And the evidence, liar?
                Quote: Olgovich
                You are not an IML, ignoramus

                I mean: am I not your classmate? No. Do not even try to attach to me. stop
                Quote: Olgovich
                1922 - the total production of books for this year amounted to 307,3 million impression sheets, which amounted to 45 percent of the average annual sheet of 1913

                In the difficult year of 1922, Soviet publishing houses published more books than in 1913 in the number of titles by 1,4 times, and in circulation - by 2,8 times.
                Got it, no?
                Quote: Olgovich
                I have not met SUCH

                You still have a lot to learn ... yes
                Quote: Olgovich
                it would be much BIGGER

                Perhaps, but not a fact. The revolution, and especially the idea for which it was accomplished, gave a tremendous impetus to the development of culture in all directions.
                By the way. Her, the October Revolution, began to chant almost from the first days. Writers, painters, sculptors, playwrights, filmmakers. With your own system, established almost 30 years ago, nothing of the kind is observed. How can you explain this?
                Quote: Olgovich
                STA ?! revolutionaries ... CHEKHOV, TOLSTOY, BUNIN ?!

                If Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, Simonov are anti-Soviet, then these (and many others) are yes, revolutionaries. To put it mildly.
                Quote: Olgovich
                I.A. Bunin about Ulyanov-Lenin

                But Bunin generally loved a lot of nasty things to talk about, including about the Russian people as a whole. He had such a karakhter.
                But this does not mean anything - the Socialist-Revolutionaries raised their weapons against Lenin, so that they are not revolutionaries?
                Quote: Olgovich
                From World War I and Intourism brought

                Yeah, in the bag. fool Einstein was right!
                1. Olgovich April 1 2020 19: 14 New
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                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  Did you know Kulbashi? And did you live at that time?

                  Certainly: FILLING empty residential buildings only in the Non-Chernozem region, MILLIONS of abandoned fields and pastures, 60 dead Russian villages there, the wildest shortage of laborby 1985


                  This is all about:
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  In addition to many of those who calmly survived to old age retirement and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of goodness, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book.

                  Got it, no?
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  Collective farms were created for this in general - for the eradication of age-old poverty in the village

                  Oh, she-she !!! belay lol
                  To collect tributes they are organized: it is more convenient and easier, to collect marketable grain, to TAKE a collective farm than every peasant-read Stalin.
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  How do you like to say: did you live at that time? Tell contemporaries about the "entered and how."

                  These are unclassified figures, ignoramus: the wildest drop in the number of cattle, see. Istmat
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  I to you - to you personally, liar! - cited information from a pre-Soviet source. In response to the exact same hysterical request. Do you have memory problems?

                  There are NO such sources — neither conscientious nor pre-conscientious — about mass mortality and mass cannibalism BEFORE you, but THOUSAND about them! Imagine this, liar, about the DoR:
                  YEY DISTRICT. The village Dolzhanskaya - the 22 / II food assistance commission, having examined, established that tr. G **** had eaten the corpse of the dead sister's owl. During interrogation, G **** stated that for a month she ate various garbage, not even having vegetables, and that eating the human corpse was caused by hunger.

                  In the same village it was established that group D ***, remaining after the death of his father and mother with young sisters and brothers, ate the meat of brothers and sisters who died of starvation.

                  St. Novo-Scherbinovskaya. In the 3rd collective farm brigade, the wife of the fist E *** chopped off and ate her 3-year-old child, the E *** family consists of 8 people who feed on various surrogates (serepa, silo, etc.) and cat meat and dogs.

                  The cemetery found up to 30 corpses thrown out during the night, part of the corpses bitten by dogs. The corpse of the collective farmer REZNIK was cut in half, without legs, and several coffins were found there, from which the corpses disappeared.


                  In the 3rd brigade, the wife of the convict C *** drags the corpses of children from the cemetery and eats them. A search of the apartment and interrogation of S *** children revealed that several corpses were taken from the cemetery for food.
                  A girl’s corpse was found in the apartment with her legs cut off and boiled meat was found.

                  No?
                  Freedom, yeah!
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  then: "In September 1920

                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  but such was the fee only for tuition at the gymnasium, plus money for uniforms and textbooks. Now, when training at the second-level school has become free, and the form has been canceled, costs have been reduced to a minimum. "(S.P. Ivanov

                  Tears, yes ...... lol
                  HOW have poor Germans, Angles, Franks, etc. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS - without YOU they have become literate, huh? lol
                  And RUSSIA without YOU has become more literate-FASTER: you have not built schools for TEN years, and Russia-4-5 thousand a year!
                  Got it, no?
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  I, unlike you, prefer knowledge of facts to instinct. To anyone.

                  So WHERE is the name of YOUR bolshovik scientists from which you ... organized "institutes", huh?
                  Shaw, dumb? lol Only the landings? Well, such from the casket! yes
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  Well, compared to your fear (up to asking for confession) - it's just a standard of fearlessness.

                  "Daredevils" -s ..... they dealt with books, yes! fool
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  2/3? 3/4? 9/10? And the evidence, liar?

                  List of editions - find and read. Or with ... an account, also an ambush? lol
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  In the difficult year of 1922, Soviet publishing houses published more books than in 1913 in the number of titles by 1,4 times, and in circulation - by 2,8 times.

                  And it amounted to ..... 45 percent of the average annual report of 1913
                  AGAIN ... didn’t it?
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  Perhaps, but not a fact. The revolution, and especially the idea for which it was accomplished, gave a tremendous impetus to the development of culture in all directions

                  Fact: for the dead and forbidden did NOT write ANYTHING, and THOSE on which they were ALLOWED to write bastards were extremely few. Therefore, fact
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  Evolution, and especially the idea for which it was accomplished, gave a tremendous impetus to the development of culture in all directions.

                  The culture received a colossal BLOW, poor demons and the “tractor tyr-tyr” became a walker
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  and. Her, the October Revolution, began to chant almost from the first days. Writers, painters, sculptors, playwrights, filmmakers

                  LICK steel, for a small fraction.
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  . With your own system, established almost 30 years ago, nothing of the kind is observed. How can you explain this?

                  Oh thief ?! So he teased, that's the whole story!
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  If Sholokhov, Ryazanov, Gaidai, Rasputin, Simonov are anti-Soviet, then these (and many others) are yes, revolutionaries. To put it mildly.

                  lol
                  ide? facts?
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  Yeah, from a WORLD WAR and INTURISM brought in a suitcase

                  In the trailer, with the permission and approval of Occupants
                  1. Sugar Honeyovich April 2 2020 10: 59 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    certainly

                    Of course, yes: they calmly survived to an old-age pension and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of household goods, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book. Got it, no?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    read Stalin.

                    We read how! "... we managed to turn the bulk of the peasantry in a number of areas from the old, capitalist path of development, from which only a handful of wealthy capitalists benefit, and the vast majority of peasants are forced to go bankrupt and prosper in poverty - to a new, socialist path of development, which crowds out the wealthy capitalists, and re-equips the middle peasants and the poor in a new way, arming them with new tools, equipping them with tractors and agricultural machinery in order to let them get out of poverty and kulak bondage ... "
                    And not only Stalin: ““ Thanks to collectivization, many millions of Russian people abandoned a dull, hard, dirty, hungry and hopeless village life and rushed to the cities, that is, to culture, education, entertainment, hygiene, satiety, easier and more interesting work. " (Zinoviev). These are just facts. hi
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    These are unclassified numbers.

                    The figure is unclassified, but only incomplete. In the sense: they are not the whole truth, the ignoramus.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    HOW have poor Germans, Angles, Franks, etc. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS - without YOU they have become literate, huh?

                    How without us? And they had their own. Koi also staged revolutions for the sake of freedom of equality and fraternity. Both below and above. And it was clearly not without us: the Soviet country was a beacon for the whole world. It is a fact.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    you did not build schools TEN years

                    You're lying. Pointless and unnatural.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    List of editions - find and read.

                    Therefore, the evidence is zero, a liar. I don’t need to consider it - I read. And I know what was more.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    WHERE is the name of YOUR Bolshevik scientists

                    Alaverdi: learn materiel. Surnames are known.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    And that amounted to ..... 45 percent

                    Well, yes, 45 equals 280? Mathematician You are famous.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    there were very few

                    Compared to the royal speck of dust - Mont Blanc on Everest.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    I go become poor demons

                    Therefore, a push, a lift, not a blow.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    LICK steel, for a small fraction

                    Representatives of TOY culture? Figures of the Silver Age? Do not judge others by yourself.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    facts?

                    In the same place as about Sholokhov with Simonov.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    In the trailer, with the permission and approval of Occupants

                    And to the delight of the world's best people. good
                  2. Olgovich April 2 2020 11: 49 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Of course, yes: they calmly survived to an old-age pension and left their children estates with buildings, a lot of household goods, often equipment (if not a car, then a motorcycle) and a solid contribution to the savings book.

                    Jammed?
                    You are given the facts of the abandoned hundreds of thousands of "estates" with land that no one needs, and with "good" -in the form of an ax of imperial times ....
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    We read how! "... we managed to turn the bulk of the peasantry in a number of areas from the old, capitalist path of development, from which only a handful of wealthy capitalists benefit, and the vast majority of peasants are forced to go bankrupt and prosper in poverty - to a new, socialist path of development, which crowding out the wealthy capitalists, and re-equipping the middle peasants and the poor in a new way, arming them with new tools, arming with tractors and agricultural machinery in order to let them get out of poverty and kulak bondage ...

                    For pumping DANI (Stalin) from the "wealthy" people (Stalin), through collective farms (Stalin), did it come about, no?
                    for some reason. MILLIONS in 22,33,47 and pr-extinct, apparently from the overwhelming "happiness"
                    By expanding the collective farm construction, WE have ensured that all this mass of poor people was involved in collective farms, gave them a secure existence there

                    This is a great achievement, comrades. This is such an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet achieved. Having deployed collective-farm construction, WE have ensured that all these masses of poor people were drawn into collective farms and given them a secure existence there.

                    This is a great achievement, comrades. This is an achievement that the world has not yet known. and which no state in the world has yet reached.
                    -that was said on February 19, 33, on this day, as some other died, about 20000 crippled swans-from hunger
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    The figure is unclassified, but only incomplete. In the sense: they are not the whole truth, the ignoramus.

                    Of course, LIVING is either Soviet, but even they ACCEPT the WILD, TWO-THREE-fold reduction in numbers. cattle in two to three years
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

                    How without us?

                    A, Krupskaya and there put her fish leg? lol -FACTS, liar, on the table1
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And it was clearly not without us: the Soviet country was lighthouse for the whole world.

                    belay fool lol
                    this is YOURS - all the time they boasted that they were about to CAPE on the damned capitalists, but, alas, they had torn ....
                    Yes, give examples of how "suffering" American workers DREAMED to devour several times LESS-, i.e. like in the lighthouse "in the 1930s-1960s, and even later ... lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Laverdes: learn materiel. Surnames are known.

                    Of course, they are known: they are NOT!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    s schools did not build TEN years

                    You're lying. Pointless and unnatural.

                    To school, ignoramus! -In the DIRECTORY
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Well, yes, 45 equals 280? Mathematician You are famous.

                    45% = 45%, if you don’t get it, that’s how much from 100% 13 years yours could print. Shame ....
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Compared to the royal speck of dust - Mont Blanc on Everest.

                    With wild censorship and the absence of freedom of speech and press ?! fool
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Therefore, a push, a lift, not a blow.

                    Wild fall, vulgarization and primitivization
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Representatives of TOY culture? Figures of the Silver Age? Do not judge others by yourself.

                    Are those who have run away from her abroad? or interrupted by her?

                    You tell me more. that the remaining praise, under YOUR GUN -... "voluntarily wrote fool
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    In the same place as about Sholokhov with Simonov.

                    I.e.-NO
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And to the delight of the world's best people.

                    fool
                    their people said in the ELECTION and fought with your still long deyasteli-read Stalin
                  3. Sugar Honeyovich April 2 2020 16: 32 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You are FACTS

                    To you also. But you have the principle: "So much the worse for facts." lol
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    For pumping DANI (Stalin) from "wealthy" people (Stalin), through collective farms (Stalin)

                    To 1) increase agricultural productivity, 2) increase general welfare. And for nothing else. Got it, no?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    A, Krupskaya and there put her fish leg?

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    give examples of how "suffering" American workers DREAMED to devour several times LESS

                    For specifically Krupskaya I will not say, but in general:
                    "-" I talked in Iraq, in Baghdad in the 1990s, with an American journalist from the New York Times, such a secret scout was ... you know what he told me? "You know, Arkady says - paradoxically, but an example of how the rich Russian immodestly lived, the rich before the revolution and then what happened to them after 1917 brought to life many American rich who began to live very modestly, dress very modestly, not stick out their wealth, and not annoy people with their well-being. the well-being that many have people here ”(Arkady Mamontov, host)
                    - “When the Americans saw what happened in Russia, and when the first revolution took place in 1905-07, a concept such as Protestant ethics appeared, the Americans prescribed all this in the code, everything was very thorough: the duties of the worker and the duties of the owner of the enterprise. They really got scared! After all, those social conquests, the social market that the West was so proud of, are actually a copy of the reforms that were carried out by the Bolsheviks and Communists. (Yuri Knutov, director of the Museum of Troops in Balashikha). ("Traces of the empire").
                    What the Americans dreamed about - I don’t know, but from what they learned we can assume that they thought:
                    “Any patient in Magnitogorsk received the best medical care and care that society could provide ... Residents of Magnitogorsk perceived the medical care provided by society as something natural, taken for granted, as one of the normal functions of their state. It seemed unthinkable to them that In America, many doctors have no patients, while many sick men and women do not receive medical care.

                    The standard of living in France and especially in the United States is incomparably higher than in the Soviet Union, and this was evident at every step during that trip in 1937.
                    Another difference was striking. In Russia over the five years I spent there, material conditions have improved by at least one hundred percent. In France, they remained the same, perhaps even worsened. In America, they probably improved slightly, although I doubt that they have changed much. Maybe the Russian worker had only a little, but he felt that he would get more next year. His children went to school and were sure that later they would be given a job. The Russian worker was provided in case he fell ill, just like his children. Unemployment has already been forgotten. Thus, in essence, he was cheerful and optimistic, although he was worried about pressing problems that most workers in other countries did not have.
                    I found that my old friends in America were worried about unemployment, higher taxes, higher fees for medical and dental services, they were worried about how to give their children the opportunity to graduate from college, and they were probably most worried about the general development trend of American society and the reliability of the sociological and economic principles on which it was based.
                    Talking to people in France and America, I was struck by the interest they showed in the Soviet Union, as well as the widespread misconceptions about Russia and generally about everything Russian. Everyone had their own, stubbornly defended opinion on this score. The Communists and their sympathizers considered Russia a panacea for all evils. "(Scott)
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    To school

                    Your teacher? So I already ... hi
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    45% = 45%

                    In math, yes. And for some reason you don’t. To school! Right now!
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    With wild censorship and the absence of freedom of speech and press ?!

                    With reasonable censorship, filtering pearls from debris, or even poison, and with REAL freedom of speech and press.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You tell me more. that the remaining praise, under YOUR GUN -... "voluntarily wrote

                    Not enough to say - voluntarily. They still tried to be more revolutionaries than the CPSU (b). Under a gun, this is impossible in principle. request
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    I.e.-NO

                    That Sholokhov, Simonov and others are anti-Soviet - of course not.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    the people said in the ELECTION

                    Therefore, the result is the same.
                  4. Olgovich April 3 2020 10: 36 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    To you also.

                    Liar, NOT ONE!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    For 1)increase productivity agriculture, 2) increase overall welfare. And for nothing else. Got it, no?

                    1. Yields of 1913 you, "effective", reached only through .... 43 years (except 37 g).
                    EFFECTIVELY EFFECTIVELY DECLINED funds from klkhz-it yes.
                    2. Are you in the tank?
                    FIFTH TIME ON SECURED PEOPLE: By expanding the collective farm construction, WE have ensured that all this mass of poor people was involved in collective farms, given to them there secured existence

                    This is a great achievement, comrades. This is such an achievement that the world did not know yet and which no state in the world has yet achieved.

                    -This is said on February 19, 33, on this day, as on others, about 20000 died secured people, from hunger, just MILLIONS

                    Yes, and tell me, how much 0,0001% in the NORMAL ELECTIONS would these “rkvdtli” get if they SHOWED what happened?
                    No, they were silent, CRIMINAL were silent, they were afraid - they were afraid to the horror of animals, "unbending" Eviks
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    brought to life many of the American rich

                    Why this Dumb prpgda: he said, this -Other said ... And?
                    Amer the rich did not always know where Russia IS — they were by their p!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    After all, those social conquests, the social market that the West was so proud of, are actually a copy of the reforms that were carried out by the Bolsheviks and Communists.

                    shameless lie.
                    Social market is sho for the beast? Inserted HONOR, and WHAT is it, you don’t know
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    widespread misconceptions about Russia and generally about all Russian. Everyone had their own, stubbornly defended opinion on this score. The Communists and their sympathizers considered Russia a panacea for all evils. "(Scott)

                    unfortunate illiterate little warrior: in the USA they ate, got dressed, and had M "MUCH MORE THAN than in the USSR, as well as life, death rate, etc.

                    Bring statements by AMER workers about the dream to EAT as in a lighthouse !!!!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Your teacher? So i already..

                    already mania ....
                    I was ripening ...
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    With reasonable censorship

                    "mind" in .... itiots? belay lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Not enough to say - voluntarily. They still tried to be more revolutionaries than the CPSU (b).

                    OTHER -with you-did not write, for it-you DESTROYED.

                    So WHERE are the Hogweed-SCIENTISTS 1918, huh? Convulsive searches have failed? lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    and the result is the same.

                    Certainly: therefore yours and not: FULL BANKRUPTS.
                  5. Sugar Honeyovich April 3 2020 17: 21 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Liar, NOT ONE!

                    On your part - not a single one. With mine - nothing but.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    MUCH more effective

                    The quality of life of peasants has improved (according to them).
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    it is said on February 19, 33, on this day, as on others, about 20000 wealthy people died from hunger, only MILLIONS

                    You do not believe Stalin - your idol? Do you offer to believe others? Dishonestly, sir!
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Yes, and tell me, how much 0,0001% in the NORMAL ELECTIONS would these “rkvdtli” get if they SHOWED what happened?

                    It is likely that much more than 50%. Because the reason for the famine of 1933 is clearly not the one that your people are trying to rub into us now. And then they knew her, so even Goebbels did not really try to operate her.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Amer rich did not always know where Russia is

                    What a conversation! And they did not always understand what the "communist threat" means. And the "red under the bed" is about Indians. Toys. laughing fool
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    shameless lie

                    True true.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    unfortunate illiterate turachka

                    Which of you and Scott? He seemed to be well educated and quite happy lol
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    already mania

                    If! Sad, painful reality. request
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    OTHER - if you didn’t write

                    They wrote different things. And they destroyed mostly. "Intilation"
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    So WHERE

                    BORSCHEVIKI? Probably in your garden. And judging by what was written, in the salad?
                    fool
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    yours and not: FULL BANKRUPTS.

                    Only your fear of them is. "Stalin is a really acting politician of our time. Guard !!!" Shameful ...
                  6. Olgovich April 3 2020 19: 58 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    The quality of life of peasants has improved (according to them).

                    Dying of millions of hunger - "improvement", yes fool
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    You do not believe Stalin - your idol? Do you offer to believe others? Dishonestly, sir!

                    I believe! You know the whole truth, you just need to change the sign
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    It is likely that much more than 50%. Because cause The famine of 1933 is clearly not the kind that yours are trying to rub into us now. And then they knew her, so even Goebbels did not really try to operate her.

                    1.Oh, open it! yes
                    2. I.e. would you forgive?
                    Therefore, yours and were silent FOR FIVE YEARS, like a fish about ice, they were afraid of a crushing victory? lol
                    By the way, who and when were interested in the reasons?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Which of you and Scott? He seemed to be well educated and quite happy

                    No one endowed cattle with intelligence, you are the first lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    If! Sad, painful reality

                    I sympathize, although the fact that you admitted is good
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    They wrote different things. \ "

                    Well, bring this "miscellaneous" anti-Bolshevik, for example
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And they destroyed mostly. "Intilation"

                    Yes, your People's Commissars of the NKVD of the USSR Yagoda and Yezhov are exceptionally sophisticated ADVANCED aesthetes (even by today's standards yes ) _one possessed chic rubber and female knitwear, the second one was cast with all blue shades. good
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    BORSCHEVIKI? Probably in your garden. And judging by what was written, in the salad?

                    Dumb them, yes, smart - among fool
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Only your fear of them is. "Stalin is a real-life politician of our time."

                    How lcd you are like with your non-brothers: "Bandera come-order bring" requestYes, and give examples when bankrupt are afraid.

                    And again I insist: Bring the statements of AMER workers about the dream to EAT as in a lighthouse !!!! lol
                  7. Sugar Honeyovich April 4 2020 08: 06 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Dying of millions of hunger - "improvement", yes

                    Or they received bread in huge quantities, in a one-man farm unprecedented.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You know the whole truth, you just need to change the sign

                    Those. the truth is only what you yourself think is true? Cunningly! But ... stupid.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Oh, open it!

                    It has long been revealed. Not all, of course, because all, it seems, and then no one knew.
                    "When I asked my father (and his village, Nikolaevka, Novomoskovsky district is just in the area of ​​the notorious famine) to talk about this famine, he first willingly began to talk about the famine of 1927. And when I clarified that I was interested in the famine of 1932 , then at first he didn’t even understand what I was asking. And then he remembered - yes, and then there was a famine. And when asked about the causes of the famine in the village, he answered harshly: “They didn’t want to work!
                    However, the reasons for which they did not want to work with his father had already been erased from memory. But when I asked how “the peasants didn’t want to work”, he recalled and told such a case of his native village of Nikolaevka, Novomoskovsk district of the Dnepropetrovsk region: “A drunk private farmer is sitting under a teahouse (there was something like a tavern in our village) . This year he did not plow and did not sow at all, but the carrion (grain that crumbled during the harvest of last year) sprang up so well, and the year was so successful in the weather that wheat on his land deformed to envy. They say to him - Ivan, go squint! And he: "Whoever sowed it, let him mow!" Father remembered this biting phrase.
                    ... But in our vast relatives there is no one who would die of hunger in the Holodomor, although the family of the eldest uncle died of hunger in 1947. Maybe because they did not suffer from the famine, because my grandfather had already joined the collective farm? I do not know..". (Yu.I. Mukhin).
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Those. would you forgive?

                    You can forgive or not forgive the guilty. And if not guilty ...
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    By the way, who and when were interested in the reasons?

                    Everyone who studies the topic. Me, for example.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    No one endowed cattle with intelligence

                    It’s noticeable for you.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You are the first

                    No, I just descended to your level. To understand me. We must teach you! wink
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Well, bring this "miscellaneous" anti-Bolshevik, for example

                    Well, I remember, Sholokhov, Simonov and others were called anti-advisers! They should have it! Is it logical? Or how? laughing fool
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Yes, your People's Commissars of the NKVD of the USSR Yagoda and Ezhov-

                    Just like yours.
                    “Philosopher and art critic Mikhail Aleksandrovich Lifshits talked about internecine battles among the intelligentsia in the 30s and 40s. Political labels were projectile shells of this struggle, and denunciations, or as it was expressed then,“ timely signals ”were its instruments. Did I participate in this? ? Asked Lifshits and answered: "Everyone participated, and so did I. Otherwise, it was impossible to write, print, or exist in literature. Well, for example, Nusinov speaks in the press and accuses me of distorting Marxism, denying the role worldview in creativity or n I admit the Stalinist doctrine of culture. Its timely signal contains a set of misconduct that stretches to article 58. If I keep silent, it’s possible that they will imprison me. To avoid this, I publish an article in which I prove that Nusinov does not recognize the dictatorship of the proletariat or denies slogan: “Workers of all countries, unite!” I give my opponent the chance to go to jail. I’m the same scammer as Nusinov, and the fact that they put him, not me, is either a lottery, or persuasiveness of arguments and art controversy. "
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Dumb them, yes, smart - among

                    I sympathize with your company.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    How lcd you are like your non-brothers: "Bandera come-order bring" Yes, and give examples when bankrupts are afraid.

                    Not us, but you. Your words. Bankrupt may not be afraid, but because of their influence, the Communists, because of their influence, are still afraid of tantrums. So they are not bankrupt? According to your logic
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    statements of AMER workers about the dream to EAT as in a lighthouse !!!!

                    And ask those of them who stood in kilometer-long queues behind a plate of balandy - they will surely say a lot to you! Or who was starving when the bourgeois dispossessed of food!
                  8. Olgovich April 4 2020 10: 10 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Or they received bread in huge quantities, in a one-man farm unprecedented.

                    1. recipients have become several MILLION less.
                    2. Dumb lie-see. CSB
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Those. the truth is only what you yourself think is true? Cunningly! But ... stupid.

                    The truth is the facts. Which cynical public lie about the secured - thrown in the trash
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

                    Well, I remember, Sholokhov, Simonov and others were called anti-advisers! They should have it! Is it logical? Or how?

                    fool YOU said "about different things" To my proposal to introduce -You are again ZERO,
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Just like yours.

                    These are YOUR commissars, YOUR creation, as well as the system that has put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness, is YOUR
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    I sympathize with your company.

                    In my company, 1918, the mass of the great minds of mankind, in yours, alone fool
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Not us, but you. Your words

                    Words about YOU, didn’t get it, again? This is who wrote: “Stalin is a really acting politician of our time.” A copy from the brothers
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Bankrupt may not be afraid, but because of their influence, the Communists, because of their influence, are still afraid of tantrums. So they are not bankrupt? According to your logic

                    Bolsheviks-bankrupt full-prsrl ALL: country. army, people, even their own ..... party, whose 18 millionth detachment spat on them lol And this is with all their power!
                    And why are they afraid of them, the eternal marginalized losers, now that they are biting each other against the background of hundreds of old women ??
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And ask those of them who stood in kilometer-long queues behind a plate of balandy - they will surely say a lot to you! Or who was starving when the bourgeois dispossessed of food!

                    1. Amer workers' statement on the desire to eat, dress and have m2, as in the lighthouse, will it or not? Or is Amer the peasants a fall to the collective farm in 1933?
                    No? So don’t talk in vain - uninteresting
                    2. NOBODY in the USA did NOT die of hunger, even the communists of the USSR were so ashamed to write such a thing!
                  9. Sugar Honeyovich April 4 2020 13: 58 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Dumb lie

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Truth is facts

                    Facts are not always true. But in this case, yes: I have facts (evidence of contemporaries), you have a dumb lie. You are not even able to give her signs of credibility. Shame ...
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    At my suggestion to introduce -You are again ZERO,

                    Ha! On my suggestions to present the facts you almost always have ZERO. And now too.
                    They wrote about different things: about good and bad in our country and our society, about good and evil, heroes and traitors-cowards, honest and dishonest, toilers and loafers, etc. etc.
                    Now you answer: why the same religion did not bring up other nations as well as Russians (if this is really only its merit)?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    These are YOUR commissars, YOUR creation, as well as the system that has put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness, is YOUR

                    You confuse the cause with the effect.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    This is who wrote: “Stalin is a really acting politician of our time.

                    This was written by Komsomolskaya Pravda during the failure of the last “de-Stalinization”. And similarly write: https: //www.belrussia.ru/page-id-7056.html, https://echo.msk.ru/blog/konstantindobrynin/1655752-echo/. Got it, no?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    In my company, 1918, the mass of the great minds of mankind, in yours, alone

                    It's amazing how they let you in ...
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Amer workers' statement of longing

                    Statements Amer. workers live like in the USSR-were! I brought them to you! Do you have vision or memory problems? Or even with your head?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    NO ONE IN THE USA DIED FROM hunger

                    And the Americans write that they were dying. On the other hand, an American who LIVES in the USSR for 5 years near Kazakhstan and is familiar with many who came from Ukraine - about the famine of 1933 - not a word. So that.
                  10. Olgovich April 4 2020 15: 58 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Data - not always true.

                    belay lol Louder, stronger shout it - it will help you to count on help faster.
                    In the Annals of Philosophy bring you! lol
                    WHAT is it?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    But in this case, yes: I have facts (evidence of contemporaries), you have a dumb lie. You are not even able to give her signs of credibility.

                    Only MILLION victims of the famine of 33 g deny the anti-people
                    By the way, the promised cause of death is IDEA?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    They wrote about different things: about good and bad in our country and our society, about good and evil, heroes and traitors-cowards, honest and dishonest, toilers and loafers, etc. etc.

                    Present articles and reports of YOUR idols and newspapers about the most terrible tragedy of our people in peacetime - starvation 33
                    A trifle, yes? WHERE are reports from the field, investigations of writers, newspapermen, the public, photos, reports, criticisms of priturki, etc.?
                    At their table, liar!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Now you answer: why the same religion did not bring up other nations as well as Russians (if this is really only its merit)?

                    We had a Russian Orthodox Church, others had a Polish Orthodox Church, etc., and they are all DIFFERENT, despite COMMUNITY.
                    SHO, wedge? It's your problems
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    You confuse the cause with the effect.

                    Those. these naughty .... NOT YOUR generation? belay lol
                    The system that put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness is also .... NOT YOURS?
                    And whose?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    It wrote "Komsomolskaya Pravda" during the failure of the last "de-Stalinization"

                    Liar, no such thing in KP
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Statements Amer. workers live like in the USSR-were! I brought them to you! Do you have vision or memory problems? Or even with your head?

                    NO ONE!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And the Americans write that they were dying.

                    To the table, liar!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    an American who LIVES in the USSR for 5 years near Kazakhstan and is familiar with many who came from Ukraine - about the famine of 1933 - not a word. So that.

                    Millions of relatives of the victims, too, didn’t write a word, just like your through and through LIQUID so-called "press", "radio", "congresses and your lying organizations.
                    The conclusion was NOT fool
                  11. The comment was deleted.
                  12. Sugar Honeyovich April 4 2020 17: 15 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Shout louder

                    He who has ears, let him hear
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    the promised cause of death is IDE?

                    Who promised? What reality are you now, venerable? They completely lied.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Submit articles and reports of YOUR idols and newspapers

                    I have no idols. Unlike you. "Newspapers" - hto this? fool
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The system that put people in this WILD position of universal denunciation, fear and lawlessness is also .... NOT YOURS?

                    Exclusively yours. And a draw more. As well as revolution - the universal desire of the whole then society.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    no such thing in KP

                    There is. And not only this. Not so long ago in the Communist Party there was an interview in which it was said about the 1930s: “It seemed that all then life was a solid sun”. This is about the system of "universal fear."
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    To the table

                    “I have to go back to the internal valleys. Five thousand families die there with starvation. They do not just starve, they die of hunger” (Steinbeck).
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Millions of relatives of the victims, too, didn’t write a word

                    Moreover, they said (in the 1990s-2010s) that they had never heard of any hunger.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The conclusion was NOT

                    Be in your way. hi
                  13. Olgovich April 5 2020 10: 48 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    He who has ears, let him hear

                    this bullshit:
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Data - not always true.

                    how to understand?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Who promised?

                    YOU'RE YOU said you KNOW the true cause of the famine that people would forgive in the elections, liar
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    I have no idols. Unlike you. "Newspapers" - hto this?

                    1. Submit articles and reports of YOUR idols and newspapers about HUNGER, liar
                    2. Newspapers are what you have been turned into newspapers
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Exclusively yours. And a draw more.

                    fool YOU approve of it, not me.
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Is.

                    So imagine a liar.
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Must again go to the inner valleys. Five thousand families die of starvation there. Not just starving, but starving. "

                    Ignorant, "die" - NOT equal to "dead", it dawned, no?
                    I, too, from hunger yesterday evening.
                    Yes, a liar, and read ONE Steinbeck:
                    Authorities try to help them with food and medical care

                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Moreover, they said (in the 1990s-2010s) that they had never heard of any hunger.

                    fool
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Be your way

                    So long ago! lol
                  14. Sugar Honeyovich April 5 2020 13: 17 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    how to understand?

                    You do not understand Russian?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    YOU said you KNOW the true cause of hunger

                    I said: yes, I know from the words of contemporaries, but not the whole reason, liar.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Submit articles and reports of YOUR idols

                    Once again, for those who think not with their heads: I have no idols. They do not exist in nature.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Newspapers are what you have turned newspapers into

                    To school, ignoramus! In specialized.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    YOU approve of it, not me.

                    And people like you created it. Yes, and now "do not approve" only because of the current situation. The situation will change - again you will begin to "vigorously approve".
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    "die" - NOT equal to "died"

                    I would like to believe
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Authorities try to help them with food and medical care

                    "Trying"? Good deal! But here in 1933 "the help that was demanded has been rendered already." Do you know who "demanded"? Writer. You asked about the writers, right? And about the newspaper people:
                    "The special correspondent of the newspaper" For the food industry "reports to the drug addict of agriculture Yakovlev:
                    “From the districts of the Vinnitsa region, two districts are in an extremely difficult situation - Umansky and Babansky ... Villages and villages are empty. You cannot even hear a dog barking, because the dogs are destroyed - eaten ... On this basis, murders are not uncommon: for two pounds of flour the watchmen killed; in order to steal a chicken, they killed a 13-year-old kid, cut off a family for a sheep, etc. It came to the point that one collective farmer killed his two-year-old child, cooked and ate him ... They died of hunger and die in large numbers every day: for example, in Gorodnitsa daily 12 people die of starvation. In Uman, 400 people died in May, that is, as much as over the entire past year. Every day, in the mornings, the streets of Uman raise the corpses of starving people who came from the village of peasants. Over a third of the population in the village has swelled from starvation. ”
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    So long ago!

                    What exactly is so? Do you admit that in the USA there was such a famine as in the USSR? Or what was the same in the USSR as in the USA? There are suspiciously many coincidences, as we see ..
                    And what is the difference between Orthodox churches? And where does it come from? Huh?
                  15. Olgovich April 5 2020 20: 44 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    You do not understand Russian?

                    Bredyatinu "do not understand" yours: "Facts - not always truth".
                    WHAT is it?
                    You-Klitschko: "Not only just everything .. "? lol laughing
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    I said: yes, I know from the words of contemporaries, but not the entire cause,

                    The reason ... consists of parts? belay lol AND? Wedging?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And people like you created it

                    It was created by YOU in 1917 and beyond, and the People's Commissars of the NKVD of the USSR and Berry and Yezhov and their gangs are your work
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    I would like to believe

                    Learn Russian to understand!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    "Trying"? a good a business!

                    Certainly: no deaths from starvation.
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And here in 1933, "the help that was demanded was rendered already".
                    After the DEATH of millions and mass cannibalism? lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Writer. You asked about the writers, right? And about the newspaper people:
                    "Special correspondent of the newspaper" For the food industry "

                    Newspaper number, number, writer book, edition, wagging liar
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    What exactly is so?

                    belay fool
                    It :
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Be your way
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And what is the difference between Orthodox churches? And where does it come from? Huh?

                    All human beings. But all-different.
                    Got it, no? no
                  16. Sugar Honeyovich April 6 2020 12: 55 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Facts are not always true. "
                    WHAT is it?

                    "The fact is not all the truth, it is only raw materials." (Bitter) You should study what clever people say, and not invent stupid things. From idleness.
                    That's why
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The reason ... consists of parts

                    Yes. More precisely - from a complex of reasons. The famine of 1933 is a fact and this is the only thing that is known about it reliably. The truth about him (the scale, the number of victims, and most importantly the reasons) is completely unknown (and probably did not know) by anyone. There is too much information and they do not clarify, but confuse, darken the picture. Nowadays - all the more so - they probably do not know what people knew then.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    It was created by YOU in 1917

                    And you prepared yourself 1917 repeat
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Certainly: no deaths from starvation.

                    Or many starved to death. Also unconditionally.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Newspaper number, number

                    Do not bring in the porch? fool tongue laughing
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    writer book

                    This is not a book, ignoramus. And which writer should know. The one you slandered as an "anti-Soviet".
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    All human beings. But all-different.

                    Well well. It starts to reach you a little. My lessons are not in vain. So, I was right once again: the influence of the church on the Russian character (mentality) is such that it is permissible to neglect it. By virtue of its nullity. hi
                  17. Olgovich April 6 2020 14: 46 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    "Fact - still not all truthHe is only raw. "(Bitter)

                    1. Who called this Turk ... smart? lol
                    Vasily Rozanov:
                    "Gorky himself, man completely uneducated, barely literate, or thought nothing, or thought very little: others, “bald old men” and “incapable radicals” thought for him ”

                    2. YOU-What you write, sclerosis: Facts - not always truth".?
                    DIFFERENCE - do not you think?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Cause...from parts composed

                    Yes. More precisely - from complex of reasons.

                    The reason is ... of the reasons! belay lol
                    Brother Klitschko, for sure! Or ... SAM, eh?
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    . The famine of 1933 is a fact and this is the only thing that is known about it reliably. The truth about him (the scale, the number of victims, and most importantly the reasons) is completely unknown (and probably did not know) by anyone. There is too much information and they do not clarify, but confuse, darken the picture. Nowadays - all the more so - they probably do not know what people knew then.

                    You zawil about the "well-known" REASON, which will be forgiven on vyuyory
                    WHAT are you carrying now ?!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And you prepared yourself 1917

                    And not Adam and Eve?
                    BEFORE you was the MOST DEMOCRATIC country in the world (or Ilych recognized)
                    WHAT you done to her ?! YOU have shot it for decades, banished, imprisoned, banned, crushed, deprived, and created a monster system
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Or many starved to death. Also unconditionally.

                    Of course, that NO STATISTICS and promotion of your nonsense does not confirm, even the SOVIET
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Do not bring in the porch?

                    Isn’t a Russian tanker? I repeat: Newspaper number, number
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Well well. Before you start a little to reach. My lessons are not in vain.

                    Impotence, incoherence and chatter come from you. hi
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    the influence of the church on the Russian character (mentality) is such that it is permissible to neglect it. By virtue of its nullity.

                    The Russian Church created the Russian people and Russia.
                  18. Sugar Honeyovich April 7 2020 10: 46 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Who called this Turk ... smart?

                    Gorky, however ... not a Turk. Are you lost again? fool And he was called smart about ... very many. It’s not enough to say smart: “real, great talent”, “great talent”, etc.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Vasily Rozanov:
                    “Gorky himself, a man completely uneducated, barely literate, either thought nothing, or thought very little: others,“ bald old men ”and“ incapable radicals ”thought for him”

                    "... what envy does not do!" (I.S. Turgenev).
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Facts aren't always true. "

                    I write: "Facts are not always ALREADY true." Is the meaning clear? If not, then this is not a nickname, it is ... something unicellular ... And do not try to lie - you are even deprived of your abilities for this.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You zawil about the "well-known" REASON, which will be forgiven on vyuyory

                    I talked about the reason that most likely we knew THEN and we don’t know NOW. Do not try to lie - see above. lol
                    Speaking of the elections. If the famine was indeed the way it is portrayed today, a great multitude of people should have known about it without any “voice acting”. If the authorities had “voiced” in the view necessary for it: the machinations of enemies, sabotage of the fists, etc., the “voiced” would surely have played in its favor - then such arguments were believed. And the “neo-voice” was supposed to worsen the attitude to the authorities - “hides”. As I understand it. However, even the Germans did not particularly use this topic in propaganda. Why?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    NO STATISTICS and promotion of your nonsense - does not confirm

                    Statistics and propaganda of your nonsense also often do not confirm. And then it refutes it. And here: it is quite possible that she, statistics, is simply not there. And there wasn’t. The Americans did not consider their own.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Impotence, incoherence and chatter come from you

                    From you - yes. From me there are clear, well-grounded arguments against which your nonsense and nonsense are completely powerless.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The Russian Church created the Russian people and Russia.

                    Yeah, but Christ spoke Ukrainian. Once again: do not lie, you are weak here just like in history, mathematics and Russian. Very bad. fool negative
                  19. Olgovich April 7 2020 11: 51 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Gorky, however ... not a Turk.

                    withTurk.
                    how hard it comes .....request
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    And he was called smart about ... very many. It’s not enough to say smart: “real, great talent”, “great talent”, etc.

                    "The cuckoo praises the rooster ..." lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    I write: "Facts - not always ALREADY true. "Is the meaning clear?

                    How can you understand ... "already" nonsense? That "not always", then .. "not all."
                    What are you carrying? fool lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    I talked about the reason that most likely we knew THEN and we don’t know NOW.

                    WHAT they knew then and DO NOT know now when the archives are open, decisions that YOURS carefully kept secret, for they knew that they would receive in the face, and how ?!

                    What are you talking about, cynic and ignoramus ?!
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Statistics and propaganda of your nonsense also often do not confirm. And then it refutes it. And here: it is quite possible that she, statistics, is simply not there. And there wasn’t. The Americans did not consider their own.

                    1. NEVER, NOBODY could refute my figures, for they are not mine, but the source.
                    2. owls propagandists and "scientists" also ... did not count the dead hungry amers yes
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    . From me - clear, reasonable arguments. against which your nonsense and nonsense are completely powerless.

                    3. fool lol learn "Narcissistic personality disorder yes
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Yeah, but Christ spoke Ukrainian.

                    fool lol
                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    You are here as weak as in history, mathematics and the Russian language. All

                    see Clause 3 yes
                  20. Sugar Honeyovich April 7 2020 15: 12 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    grounding.

                    This is not Gorky either. Of the two of you, at least. wink
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    What are you carrying?

                    You are carrying. And it is known that - nonsense, nonsense and nonsense. And I state clear arguments and true facts.
                    yes
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    YOUR CAREFULLY secret, for they knew that they would receive in the face, and how?

                    Do you know what they knew? Did they tell you this? Empowered to say that? Or maybe you are one of them, eh? Confess, lighten the soul! negative
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    WHAT they knew then and DO NOT know now when archives and solutions are open

                    And what do they know now that the archives are open?
                    I now know that people in the city were starving in 1933, and in a village 8-10 km from this city, 1933 was remembered as "very full". Why did this happen? Can you find out from the archive, liar?
                    Is it possible to find out from open archives why in some villages there were many who died of hunger, and in the neighboring villages not a single one, although they were also starving there? People explain: “Thanks to the collective farm” - is this confirmed by archives?
                    Finally, is it possible to find out the details of the causes of hunger, called contemporaries:
                    “They didn’t want to work! : “A drunk private farmer sits under a teahouse .... This year he did not plow or sow at all, but the carrion (grain that crumbled during the harvest of last year) sprang up so well, and the year was so successful in weather that on his land, wheat was spoiled for envy. They say to him - Ivan, go squint! And he: “Whoever sowed it, let him mow!”
                    "A huge, more than 2000 yards, steppe village in the Kherson region - Arkhangelka - was dead during the hot harvesting season. One hammerhead worked, one shift (8 people). The rest of the army — men, women, adolescents — sat, lay, reclined in chill. "I walked through the village - from end to end - I felt terrible. I tried to start conversations. They answered slowly, reluctantly. And with complete indifference. I said:" Bread lies in the rolls, but it’s standing in some places. crumbled and disappeared, and the one in the rolls will disappear. ”“ Well, it’s known that it will disappear, ”with an absolute equal to answered me with a soul "(Grigorenko).
                    You somehow strangely argue: archives are open, archives are open! And what is there - everything about everything? Archives are documents, and the documents also do not write what "everyone knows." But over time, this "everyone knows" is forgotten! Therefore, oral stories of contemporaries are important - they may contain facts that have never happened in any archive. And together they, written and oral sources, can give the truth! And that’s not all. Got it, no? fool
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    owls propagandists and "scientists" too ... did not count the dead hungry amers

                    Did you think?
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    learn "Narcissistic personality disorder

                    I don’t need it. I am doing a more useful thing: exposing liars from history. And not without success, I must say! laughing
                  21. Olgovich April 7 2020 15: 22 New
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                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    It is too

                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Carry

                    Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                    Work

                    They lifted up their new: no knowledge, no conscience, nothing.

                    "To freedom!" yes lol
            2. Sugar Honeyovich April 7 2020 11: 46 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              And not Adam and Eve?

              Already the sons of this couple started a fratricidal war. Losses amounted to about 25% of the world's population ... request
              Quote: Olgovich
              Before you was the MOST DEMOCRATIC country in the world

              Is the country with OFFICIAL class division the most democratic in the world? You can imagine what the world was like! fool
              But most importantly, for some reason, contemporaries did not notice this. They wanted to overthrow the existing system (in the best case, to greatly modernize it) and establish anything in return: a monarchy in the German or English style (Germany and Great Britain were not so democratic?) Or a republic as in France (it too?), Etc. And when they overthrew it, and then for decades, NOBODY (except for "individual dumbasses") did not offer to restore it. For "he didn’t, and could not, destroy the causes that created social injustice, the remnants of serfdom, and economic and cultural backwardness."
              And stop lying - it won’t help.
            3. Olgovich April 7 2020 12: 10 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Already the sons of this couple started a fratricidal war.

              fool lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Country with OFFICIAL class division - the most democratic in the world? You can imagine what the world was like!

              That's what Russia called YOUR bald parasite-foreign tourist in April 1917.
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              But most importantly, for some reason, contemporaries did not notice this.
              You - WHO authorized to speak on behalf of contemporaries?
              None?
              Well, so, ON freedom! lol
            4. Sugar Honeyovich April 7 2020 14: 39 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              That's what Russia called YOUR bald parasite-foreign tourist in April 1917.

              Rather, he said that Russia WILL BE the most democratic when the power passes to the proletariat, which has overthrown the Provisional Government, striving to "restore monarchist, tsarist receptions." Is not it? Will, and not eat, and even more so, was not.
              And in April 1917, Russia was a country that a month earlier had “faded into two, at most three days,” with the army falling apart during the war, the economy, state structures, rising crime and a boiling civil war. Say, the Bolsheviks eliminated this "freedom"? For this (only for ONE it!) They are worthy of eternal gratitude of their unworthy descendants.
              Quote: Olgovich
              You - WHO authorized to speak on behalf of contemporaries?

              Yes - who authorized you to speak on their behalf (what do you constantly do)? None? So pull the tail! fool stop
            5. Olgovich April 7 2020 14: 54 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              More truly: said that Russia WILL the most democratic, when power passes to the proletariat, which overthrows the Provisional Government, striving to "restore monarchist, tsarist receptions." Is not it? Will, and not eat, and even more so, was not.

              Yes, you are not at all Copenhagen and even .... you don’t know your bald, disgrace !:
              l carla: Russia is now the freest country in the world

              Got it, no?
              And about "democracy":
              Not a parliamentary republic, but a republic of Soviets

              That’s the whole “democracy." request
              Got it, no?
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Yes - who authorized you to speak on their behalf (what do you constantly do)?

              belay fool lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              So press

              Your advice is there, to the Soviets! lol

              "To freedom!"
            6. Sugar Honeyovich April 7 2020 15: 40 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              Yes, you are not Copenhagen at all, and you don’t even know

              I know him and, most importantly, how you lie.
              Quote: Olgovich
              l carla: Russia is now the freest country in the world

              Russia is now the freest country in the world FROM ALL WARRANTING COUNTRIES, isn't it, liar? This is not at all the same as "the freest in the world."
              And most importantly - study other documents on the same topic. And again: stop lying so brainless. "You can not - do not torment."
              Quote: Olgovich
              And about "democracy":
              Not a parliamentary republic, but a republic of Soviets
              That's the whole "democracy"

              That is: the Republic of Soviets, "capable of breaking off the whole network of relations and interests of capital, not just in words but in deeds, - only in this case the workers ... will be able to quickly put an end to the war on the basis of a truly democratic, truly liberating all peoples and nationalities of the world" . Those. true democracy.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Your advice is there,

              Follow up. soldier
      2. Icelord April 10 2020 20: 21 New
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        you are right p. 100-150 years behind civilized countries, but in 1917 people with the same mentality came to power. The camel was asked what is worse to go uphill or through a swamp. And that and that muck camel said (s)
  • Sugar Honeyovich April 4 2020 17: 32 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    We had a Russian Orthodox Church, others had a Polish Orthodox Church, etc., and they are all DIFFERENT, despite COMMUNITY.
    SHO, wedge?

    I understood the question, I answer: yes, you are wedging. So, Orthodox churches are ALL DIFFERENT? And what is the difference? And, say, the so-called is the "Great Russian" church and the Old Believers church one and two? fool
  • Vilensky 29 March 2020 16: 40 New
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    It is not necessary to give Gorky quotes, but to think about the moral and religious condition of those who were at the bottom: a hereditary thief, an alcoholic. . . and not a single believer but the preacher of Luke.
    And do not forget that the Church is not a tax police.
    1. Simargl 30 March 2020 08: 08 New
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      Quote: Vilensky
      And do not forget that the Church is not a tax police.
      Let me think ... church tithing, which everyone pays, and if they don’t pay, there is a decrease in social rights and opportunities. And I'm not talking about imperial times - it's today's realities!
  • Basil50 29 March 2020 07: 14 New
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    I have only one question, but for what money did IT build it up?
    Who was taken from?
    1. Boltunov 29 March 2020 09: 38 New
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      Quote: Vasily50
      I have only one question, but for what money did IT build it up?
      Who was taken from?

      They didn’t take it away from anyone, it’s just that Russia is rebuilding .. And its backbone is the faith and allies of the Army and Navy! ..That's something ..
      In the west, in every village, there is a Catholic church, and even in the hymn there are the words "God bless America" ​​..
      Orthodoxy is the basis of Russia, and even during the USSR, Stalin recognized it during the Second World War in 41 .. (he released the monks from the camps whom the Jewish KGB did not kill)
      So it is not in vain that the ROC is being persecuted and vulgarized in the same Outskirts, and ours are direct, like demons, democrats rushing at everything related to faith, etc. ..
      I believe, but I’ll go to church when I’m already very old .. Sins to grind.
      But I like the ringing of bells, here we have brought the bells to the modest church of the hut .. So it’s good when you hear this ringing .. And the Muslims have a full-fledged beautiful mosque. And I’m happy for them ..
      1. BAI
        BAI 29 March 2020 11: 16 New
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        Orthodoxy is the basis of Russia, and even during the Soviet era, it was recognized by Stalin himself during the Second World War in 41.



        And there are many such photos.
        1. Boltunov 29 March 2020 11: 20 New
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          Quote: BAI
          And there are many such photos.

          But there are also many other photos that are not missed here. hi
          This is Ukraine most likely ... Vlasov, "Judas prays" damn bespectacled (hanged the devil))) .. negative
          1. Tatyana 29 March 2020 16: 40 New
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            Quote: BAI
            Quote: Vasily50
            I have only one question, but for what money did IT build it up? Who was taken from?
            They didn’t take it away from anyone, it’s just that Russia is rebuilding .. And its backbone is the faith and allies of the Army and Navy! ..That's something ..
            First deal with this question yourself - namely, about the collaboration of priests of the Russian Orthodox Church as if you had "mediators" between the god on earth and the people, otherwise it’s a pity to read you.
            - The Russian Orthodox Church has always been the largest landowner in the Republic of Ingushetia and a serfman for the people.
            - The Russian Orthodox Church opposed the liberation of the peasants from serfdom and condemned Alexander II - the Tsar-liberator - for the liberation of the peasants from feudal landlords ..
            - In 1917, the Russian Orthodox Church betrayed the monarch of the Republic of Ingushetia Nicholas II - ran over to the side of the bourgeois class.
            And now the Russian Orthodox Church is serving as "opium for the people" in the interests of the Russian oligarchocracy. The same Cyril is a church oligarch striving for secular power.

            And saying that the Vlasovites are the DARK spot of our history, we must not forget about the DARK spots of the Russian Orthodox Church - the collaboration of the Orthodox clergy in the territories of the USSR occupied by Germans. Those. about the dark spots of the Russian Orthodox Church, which collaborated with the Vlasovites and German occupiers during the Second World War.
            Until now, the official publications about the Second World War ignore the fact that one of the main reasons for the defeat of the Red Army in the initial period of the war was the successful activity of the German special services. The religious policy of the Third Reich was carried out systematically, thoughtfully, according to pre-worked out schemes and programs. In the occupied Soviet territories, numerous churches of the Russian Orthodox Church were opened.
            In connection with the organization of actions to carry out the operation "Barbarossa" in the occupied territories, the head of the security police and SD Heydrich on July 2, 1941 pointed out to the senior commanders of the SS and security police: "Against the aspirations of the Orthodox Church to spread its influence to the masses, do nothing. On the contrary, in every possible way to promote them, and ... to avoid the unity of the church. Also, do not impede the formation of religious sects. ”
            At the same time, Hitler did not think about any revival of the Russian Orthodox Church itself, as well as Orthodoxy in the occupied territories of Soviet Russia, namely, it used the Russian Orthodox Church’s clergymen, the blind faith of the people in God and the temporary revival of the administrative apparatus of the Russian Orthodox Church in the occupied territories of the USSR in the form of “ soft ”German power for the decomposition of the state forming the historical people and the geopolitical disappearance of Russia itself.

            ROC on the way to the great Victory. May 9, 2015
            1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 38 New
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              Show me at least someone who in 1917 would sympathize with the king? Nicholas II already got everyone, but the clergy simply rejoiced that the head of state would no longer be the head of the church. Their caesarepapism infuriated since the time of Peter I, who pressed them to the nail a little.
          2. Okolotochny 30 March 2020 10: 41 New
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            Vlasov, “Judas prays,” damn bespectacled (hanged the devil)))

            You can add - and who elevated Vlasov to the commanders and whose he was a favorite?
        2. vladcub 29 March 2020 16: 12 New
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          BAI, but Stalin did not know about this ??
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Senior seaman 29 March 2020 17: 44 New
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          Quote: BAI
          And there are many such photos.


          Those too and what?

          And how then to be with this member of the CPSU (b) since 1930?
          1. BAI
            BAI 29 March 2020 21: 58 New
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            Those too and what?

            It is necessary to distinguish the Russian Orthodox Church in the occupied and not occupied territories. In the occupied ROC - for the Germans. On not occupied - against. Such a principled position. Although they would try in the unoccupied territories to be for the Germans. It is now possible to oppose the state.
            And how then to be with this member of the CPSU (b) since 1930?

            But no way. I already wrote about this. How is it different from Paulus? But Paulus, when he began to cooperate with us, was good, and Vlasov began to cooperate with the Germans - bad. It was not necessary to drive troops into the boilers and throw them there. There would be no treacherous attitude towards the army at the top, there would be no betrayal in the army. At both sides.
            1. Senior seaman 29 March 2020 22: 28 New
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              Quote: BAI
              In the occupied ROC - for the Germans

              Nonsense. were among the priests and partisans and underground.

              Quote: BAI
              How is it different from Paulus?

              I really didn’t know that Paulus created the German Liberation Army, which participated in the battles against the Wehrmacht.
            2. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 40 New
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              And for the betrayal in the army do not want to explain? Or maybe you are for Hitler?
          2. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 39 New
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            But the archimandrite was not awarded for archimandrite activity.
      2. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 12: 58 New
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        Quote: Boltunov
        And the Muslims have a full-fledged beautiful mosque. And I'm happy for them

        And the mullah does not yell in the morning from his bowels?
        1. Boltunov 29 March 2020 13: 08 New
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          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Boltunov
          And the Muslims have a full-fledged beautiful mosque. And I'm happy for them

          And the mullah does not yell in the morning from his bowels?

          First yelling ..))) in 2000 oh .. Then they explained to him the political situation! Silent since .. hehe soldier
        2. Sergej1972 29 March 2020 18: 08 New
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          Mullah himself does not yell, the muezzin is engaged in this.
          1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 19: 31 New
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            Quote: Sergej1972
            the muezzin does this.

            Well, I don’t know who is there, what is there ...
          2. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 43 New
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            You do not make mene funny, since when in the 21st century should someone yell? For this, a tape recorder has long been invented. We once had a case here, even before mass digital recording, when the film stuck in the process.
      3. Simargl 30 March 2020 08: 10 New
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        Quote: Boltunov
        They didn’t take it away from anyone, it’s just the restoration of Russia .. And its ridge Vera and allies Army and Navy! ..That's something ..
        Recovery?
        Replacing science with religion?
        Faith, how did you get in here?
        You Lying and mislead people!
      4. nikvic46 30 March 2020 08: 47 New
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        Yesterday. It’s possible to condemn a person for his faith. But shifting his past sins to the church is also wrong. If a person does not become a judge for his wrong actions and words, then he has lived his life in vain. "He knows all thoughts and deeds in advance." This also applies to the Creator.
      5. EvilLion 30 March 2020 16: 35 New
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        By magic and God's will created. But neither bricks, nor labor, nor glass in the windows, it cost nothing. And then they are surprised that they are being called to the lanterns.
    2. Basil50 29 March 2020 10: 19 New
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      Here it is written that ...
      Von Gundyaev openly made a keynote statement both on OUR history and in relation to citizens of RUSSIA. According to Christian theologians, God only once directly addressed a message to people, this message was recorded there. And where does so much theological literature come from?
      It is disgusting that today theologians are misinterpreting the history of the RUSSIAN-RUSSIAN EMPIRE-SOVIET UNION-RUSSIA
      Believers in the church, along with the clergy, have already forgiven themselves and their predecessors for slavery and numerous prisons and the Inquisition, and much more has already been forgiven. But at the same time they become in the pose of moral mentors and continue to consider all slaves.
    3. Walking 30 March 2020 14: 51 New
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      This money could have come up with a much better application. Unfortunately, the ROC has compromised itself with scandals with snickering priests. Yes, there are normal priests, but they are lost in the general background.
  • Sniper 29 March 2020 07: 22 New
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    the slavish nature in man, will never let him reveal in himself .. all his possibilities.
    1. carstorm 11 29 March 2020 09: 22 New
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      “Give the person what they need - and they will want amenities. Provide him with amenities - he will strive for luxury. Showered with luxury - he will begin to sigh in exquisite. Let him be exquisite - he will crave frenzy. Give it to everyone that he wishes - he will complain that he was deceived, and that he received not what he wanted ”
      1. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 43 New
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        That is precisely how the USSR fell apart with its idea of ​​satisfying growing needs.
    2. sniperino 29 March 2020 22: 46 New
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      Quote: Sniper
      the slavish nature in man, will never let him reveal in himself .. all his possibilities
      It is these ALL possibilities that everybody seeks to limit, filter, not necessarily any religious culture, except liberalism, which has reached the historical impasse, by the way, which has generated both atheism and Marxism. "A person is capable of a lot ... It annoys me." If culture does not limit, then anything can come out of a person, for if you are a sinner, you are naturally imperfect in nature. But the servant of God will not become a slave to people and his evil drives. This alignment
      1. sniperino 29 March 2020 22: 59 New
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        Quote: sniperino
        But the servant of God will not become a slave to people and his evil drives.
        Or so: a person cannot become a servant of God until he is freed not from everything, but from the evil (sinful) from the position of the Commandments of the influence of his own nature and society. You cannot serve two masters.
  • Bastinda 29 March 2020 07: 31 New
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    Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.
    But building now, in their place, “remodels” is, in my opinion, outright stupidity.
    Turned and forward in the Middle Ages! smile
    1. bober1982 29 March 2020 07: 45 New
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      Quote: Bastinda
      Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

      A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
      But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.
      1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 07: 52 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        But why destroyed, what is the reason?

        Because - opium for the people. The church is the largest enormous lying structure, which with its teaching puts a clamp on people. Hello from the agnostic.
        1. bober1982 29 March 2020 07: 56 New
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          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Because - opium for the people

          Well, that you repeat such nonsense, even somehow awkwardly.
          1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 08: 04 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            Well, that you repeat such nonsense, even somehow awkwardly.

            And what is wrong? Do you believe in the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary? I doubt. Believe that some type of fashioned Adam from clay? And Eve from the ribs? Well, believe yourself further. Just do not get me into this garbage.
            1. Bastinda 29 March 2020 08: 06 New
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              Do you believe in the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary? I doubt.

              I believe! She had such honest eyes ... laughing
            2. bober1982 29 March 2020 08: 07 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Just do not get me into this garbage.

              Nobody gets you involved, by the way.
              1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 08: 12 New
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                Quote: bober1982
                Nobody messes you up, by the way.

                Get mixed up, get mixed up. Starting from the late grandmother. It is necessary to cross themselves, then they shout that there is no cross on me, then they ask what religion I am. There, and dragged into the constitution of God. And she is alone at all. The question is, why?
                1. bober1982 29 March 2020 08: 18 New
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                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Get mixed up, get mixed up. Starting from the late grandmother

                  One should stay away from relatives, in the sense of not listening to their advice. They, and this is well known, are the first enemies.
                  1. vladcub 29 March 2020 20: 28 New
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                    Beaver, why are relatives to blame? In fact, the Bible says: "honor the father and mother." Joke
                2. Simargl 30 March 2020 08: 17 New
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                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Starting from the late grandmother.
                  Here it is not necessary about grannies! My baptized me (at home, by the way), but at the same time "evil eye" ... how is it? ... deduced, "fright" ... in short - a little witch. Here is the mother - yes: she tried to attach. I even tried. Everything "disappeared" when I read the bible.
            3. sniperino 29 March 2020 23: 10 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Believe that some type of fashioned Adam from clay?
              You believe that Adam hatched itself from clay, call this stupidity "evolution." Clever word, what other evidence ...
              1. Mordvin 3 30 March 2020 09: 02 New
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                Quote: sniperino
                You believe that Adam hatched itself from clay, call this stupidity "evolution."

                I don’t believe it, just.
          2. Andy 29 March 2020 10: 53 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            Well, that you repeat such nonsense, even somehow awkwardly.

            where are we to your gundyaeva, he and the coronovirus called you the path to God.
            1. bober1982 29 March 2020 11: 55 New
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              Quote: Andy
              he and the coronovirus called you the path to God.

              Yes, that's right - first rushing around for toilet paper, this is the first stage, and the second stage (brain cleansing) - to the Church.
              1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 12: 54 New
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                Quote: bober1982
                and in the second stage (brain cleansing) - to the Church.

                And the third step there too. At the funeral service.
        2. Boltunov 29 March 2020 13: 12 New
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          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: bober1982
          But why destroyed, what is the reason?

          Because - opium for the people. The church is the largest enormous lying structure, which with its teaching puts a clamp on people. Hello from the agnostic.

          And you persecute us again .. Here in the USA everyone goes to church .. And then they kill, WHOLE COUNTRIES! And you are here Vovchik
          1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 13: 19 New
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            Quote: Boltunov
            And you persecute us again .. Here in the USA everyone goes to church .. And then they kill, WHOLE COUNTRIES! And you are here Vovchik

            Vital, and there the church of Satan is officially authorized. And go there. request
            1. Boltunov 29 March 2020 13: 52 New
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              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Boltunov
              And you persecute us again .. Here in the USA everyone goes to church .. And then they kill, WHOLE COUNTRIES! And you are here Vovchik

              Vital, and there the church of Satan is officially authorized. And go there. request

              That's right, and what am I trying to prove here .. Well, in the Sabbaths and the Ku Klus Klan they are still fans of Satan
              Faith is in our hearts and let them try to pick out the bastards ..
        3. vladcub 29 March 2020 16: 55 New
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          Mordvin, I agree with you on something: if the last 15-20 years before the 1917 ROC had not turned into a formal structure, it would have been better. By the way, formalism is also rude to the CPSU.
          1. rich 30 March 2020 05: 01 New
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            if the last 15-20 ln the eve of 1917 the ROC had not turned into a formal structure, it would have been better.

            It would be better if you did not write about what you do not understand yes
            The formal structure of the last 15-20 years on the eve of 1917. The Russian Orthodox Church could not be for a good reason ... it simply did not exist. wink The Russian Orthodox Church appeared only in the autumn of 1943. yes
            Until 1917 in the Republic of Ingushetia, the so-called a synodal period existed the Orthodox catholic Greek-Russian church.
            From 1917 to 1943, the Patriarchal Church was isolated from the state on the territory of the USSR.
            Before you decide to object that the name is not the issue, read on how these churches differ from each other. yes Hint - Pay special attention to terms such as "Locality" and "Eucharistic communion."
      2. Bastinda 29 March 2020 08: 04 New
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        recognition of errors always only respects
        His ... These are not my mistakes, I am young for them laughing
        Himself from Kostroma: “In 1922, the Kremlin churches were transferred to the Renovationists, closed in 1929, and demolished [1934]. In place of the temple complex in the historic center of Kostroma, a park was established - a favorite place for festivities of Kostroma citizens and guests of the city, the center of which was a gigantic monument to V. I. Lenin. It was put on a pedestal prepared in 6 (during the celebration of the 1913th anniversary of the dynasty) for a grandiose monument in honor of the reigning Romanov dynasty. "https://ru.wikipedia.org / wiki / Kostroma_Kreml
        Also consider a mistake. But recovery is even more stupid. In the region, there are many abandoned churches, but nobody will restore them. There will be no profit ...
        1. Fat
          Fat 29 March 2020 08: 58 New
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          Quote: Bastinda
          recovery is even more stupid. In the region, there are many abandoned churches, but nobody will restore them. There will be no profit ...

          I am also Kostromich. The restoration of the temple complex of the Kostroma Kremlin is a completely private initiative and financing is the same.
          The only help from the administration is permission to do this work.
      3. Oleg123219307 29 March 2020 08: 27 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Bastinda
        Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

        A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
        But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

        Thunder because it was the only way to get the bulk of the people out of the religious swamp. Show what kind of going to school, work at the factory, raising children not in church dogma there will be no punishment from above. Do not forget that in that era it was necessary to work with people who, for 20 generations, had been driven into their heads by this damned religious nonsense. So I had to knock out forcibly. But they knocked it out. And they became the most reading nation, and carried out industrialization faster than anyone in the world, catching up and surpassing those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ... And now it was worth releasing the reins again in Orthodoxy in schools, the president walks from coronavirus in prayers and processions in crowds of 10 thousand people, not to mention everything else connected with this nice business ... Extremism is not extremism, but the Bolsheviks were right when shooting priests and blowing up these temples.
        1. bober1982 29 March 2020 08: 39 New
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          Quote: oleg123219307
          Extremism is not extremism, but the Bolsheviks were right when shooting priests and blowing up these temples.

          This is how Archpriest Ornatsky was shot (along with his sons)
          Red Army platoon - refused and fled, the Chinese were called, these also refused.
          Finished young non-Russian commissars.
          1. CT-55_11-9009 29 March 2020 11: 55 New
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            Quote: bober1982
            Quote: oleg123219307
            Extremism is not extremism, but the Bolsheviks were right when shooting priests and blowing up these temples.

            This is how Archpriest Ornatsky was shot (along with his sons)
            Red Army platoon - refused and fled, the Chinese were called, these also refused.
            Finished young non-Russian commissars.

            And why then did not the faithful parishioners defend such a beautiful (like any pop, by default, huh-huh) man? Why after the revolution, for the most part, not only did the peasantry of the priests not defend themselves, but even "dispossess themselves" of them? Thanks, or what? Please, hang the noodles on the Chinese ears - they will eat it and ask for supplements.
            1. rich 30 March 2020 06: 01 New
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              And why then did not the faithful parishioners defend such a beautiful (like any pop, by default, huh-huh) man?

              Ornatsky was popular in the army and navy. He was detained in Kronstadt. Where was in relative safety. Both the Baltic sailors and the soldiers of the Kronstadt garrison were opposed to the execution of Ornatsky; moreover, they did not allow the "Chinese comrades" sent from Petrograd to Kronstadt. Ornatsky was secretly shot by Latvian arrows under the pretext of transferring him from custody in Kronstadt to Oranienbaum.
              1. CT-55_11-9009 April 2 2020 01: 15 New
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                Thanks for the info. Of course, I was anti-clerical, smartly speaking, but not so much.
          2. rich 30 March 2020 05: 36 New
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            Philosopher Nikolayevich Ornatsky

            archpriest of the Orthodox catholic Greek-Russian church.
            Born June 2, 1860, churchyard Novaya Yerga, Novgorod province. He graduated from the Kirillov Theological College, St. Petersburg Theological Seminary (1881), St. Petersburg Theological Academy with a candidate of theology degree (1885).
            As a regimental priest took part in four wars of the Republic of Ingushetia. The only person from the clergy of the Republic of Ingushetia awarded four degrees of the Order of the Holy Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince Vladimir

            Since 1913 - rector of the Kazan Cathedral in St. Petersburg. The vowel of the Duma from the clergy, was a member of the Duma commissions on public education and charity. For 26 years he was chairman of the St. Petersburg Society of Education.
            During the First World War, he gave his apartment under the infirmary for the wounded soldiers, and he and his family moved to a small government building. Repeatedly traveled to war zones, escorting transports with items and goods necessary for soldiers.
            He was arrested in August 1918. Together with him, the sons of Nikolai (1886-1918, a military doctor) and Boris (1887-1918, the captain of the artillery) were arrested. Archpriest Philosopher Ornatsky and his sons were shot by Latvian arrows during the Red Terror, presumably around October 30, 1918. According to some reports, the shooting took place in Kronstadt, according to others - not far from the Gulf of Finland between Ligovo and Oranienbaum. The bodies of those shot were dumped into the bay.
            Filled with saints of the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000 ..
        2. kalibr 29 March 2020 09: 14 New
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          Quote: oleg123219307
          And they became the most reading nation, and industrialized faster than anyone in the world, having caught up with and surpassed those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ..

          And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!
          1. Victorio 29 March 2020 09: 27 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: oleg123219307
            And they became the most reading nation, and industrialized faster than anyone in the world, having caught up with and surpassed those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ..

            And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!

            ====
            true, but the goals were good (and even now they are relevant), but the money and the people themselves let us down. but they returned, returned to the familiar, to the environment, but is it better from this? and judging by the percentage of those in need, wars and the state of the environment, then no.
            1. kalibr 29 March 2020 18: 34 New
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              Quote: Victorio
              but the goals were good

              Good intentions laid the road to hell!
          2. Bastinda 29 March 2020 09: 30 New
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            Trying to return. Over the past 20 years, education has deteriorated, production has been destroyed, many technologies have been lost, the role of religion has increased.
            "See the root" K. Prutkov
          3. Boltunov 29 March 2020 11: 25 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: oleg123219307
            And they became the most reading nation, and industrialized faster than anyone in the world, having caught up with and surpassed those who seemed to be forever behind, and became a superpower ..

            And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!

            Bars and groves ..? )))))
            It really feels here, what we are being targeted for .. soldier
          4. Oleg123219307 29 March 2020 12: 54 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            And where is all this? Everything is back to square one!

            Maybe it's time again?
            1. 210ox 29 March 2020 16: 24 New
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              That's it. Return to the very smart, reading and creating nation.
          5. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 13: 21 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            And where is all this?

            Read as you see. If you hadn’t read, you wouldn’t have oiled butter on bread, I guess.
        3. Bastinda 29 March 2020 09: 14 New
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          people who 20 generations drove into the heads of this damned religious nonsense.
          Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests. It is worth recalling Pushkin, Perov, Tolstoy, Russian fairy tales.
          1. Vladivostok1969 29 March 2020 10: 00 New
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            Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests. It is worth recalling Pushkin, Perov, Tolstoy, Russian fairy tales

            Everything is logical. But you probably see the difference in the words and deeds of today's priests. Yes, and before you allowed yourself to see the priests a little.
          2. Aviator_ 29 March 2020 10: 04 New
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            Religion is one thing, and clergy under it is another. They (priests) are just as relevant to religion as the late CPSU (model of the 1980s) to the communist idea.
          3. Oleg123219307 29 March 2020 12: 57 New
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            Quote: Bastinda
            Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests. It is worth recalling Pushkin, Perov, Tolstoy, Russian fairy tales.

            Belief in God and business in the form of the Russian Orthodox Church are very different things. Faith is the internal state of man. And you can believe not only in God. I now believe in the unlimited potential for the development of mankind, although before my eyes mostly shit. Someone believes in a god whom he has not seen. To each his own. Faith is an inner and personal feeling independent of external factors by and large. And to make business out of it is vile in my opinion.
          4. Sugar Honeyovich 30 March 2020 15: 49 New
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            Quote: Bastinda
            Interestingly, the Russian people always considered themselves believers, but they did not like priests.

            Pretty natural. “I believe in God, I don’t believe in priests”, “The most terrible sinners are our priests” are real statements of real Russian people who call themselves believers and even churches.
          5. The comment was deleted.
      4. DeusExMachina 29 March 2020 10: 20 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: Bastinda
        Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.

        A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
        But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

        And the reasons were quite objective: in the eyes of the peasant masses, the church through its ministers discredited itself. An example with the same fists: a peasant falls into his eternal debt bondage, cannot repay debts (Podkulaks), and to whom to go for protection? Barin doesn't give a damn. Maybe at least they will intercede in the church for the poor? Yeah, now. Local pop in collusion with his fist. Here is the fierce hatred that the Soviet government even had to restrain.
      5. 210ox 29 March 2020 11: 04 New
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        The reason is the centuries-old invasion of the church in secular affairs. Penalties, corporal punishment, but hunched over to the church. I say again, if there would be a separation of church and state, there would most likely have been no consequences such as those in the 20-30s. But this does not justify the persecution of the church at that time. It was a mistake.
      6. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 12: 17 New
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        Quote: bober1982
        But why destroyed, what is the reason?

        I think the most prosaic, stemming from the depths of centuries.
        Religion and power are a complementary pair. Religion sacrifices power, power for this gives religious organizations the opportunity to earn money, which in the end, in fact, is their main, albeit not the most obvious, at first glance, goal. It was always and everywhere, at all times and in all corners of the planet.
        For 1000 years since the baptism of Russia, the Russian Church managed to collect (contrary to its own postulates) simply enormous wealth, was the custodian of a huge number of values ​​(including cultural and historical) and one of the largest landowners in the state, and this despite the periodic secularization carried out kings (yes, the Bolsheviks were not the first secularisers).
        The Bolsheviks who came to power in 1917 began to carry out total nationalization and secularization of property, as a result of which all owners — landowners, manufacturers, bankers — suffered, but the Orthodox Church suffered particularly large losses, simply because it had something to take away, and the Bolsheviks differed precisely in that they tried to bring what was begun to the end, without restricting themselves to the choice of methods. It is not surprising that the Church has become in opposition to the new government, and the opposition is tough and implacable. The choice, of course, among the highest church hierarchs was not the most pleasant - to voluntarily give everything acquired by the thousand-year "overwhelming work", change shoes, jump in blessing the new government and actively participate in the construction of a new young state or become an opponent of this government, declare it a "war" by all means fight for their property and privileges, with an unclear outcome. They chose the second one, which, in general, does not surprise me at all - which of us would have acted differently? - they lost the fight, but did not recognize defeat, they did not even have the mind, political flexibility and talent to look ahead, to foresee the development of events, even remaining and actively positioning themselves as an enemy of the new government.
        How the Bolsheviks acted with their enemies is well known. I think that in that situation, such decisive and consistent measures to eliminate any destabilizing factor were the only things that could save the country from final collapse and collapse. The Soviet government mercilessly destroyed its enemies and tried to do this to the very root. The Church was no exception.
        Personally, I believe that the blame for such a terrible defeat of the church economy that the Bolsheviks committed in the 20-30s, which caused such enormous damage to Russian culture, lies equally with the Orthodox Church itself. I don’t consider her the injured party, I consider her to be the party consciously and voluntarily (I emphasize, knowingly and voluntarily!) Who entered the political struggle, this struggle was a loser and suffered the corresponding damage, which is fair.
        What happens in church building today seems to me a nightmare and horror. In my deep conviction, the modern construction of churches on the scale that it is now in place is a huge mistake in public policy. Any religion is a purely voluntary and personal affair, therefore temples should arise only where and when people really need them. And to decide whether a temple is needed in a particular place and which temple should be precisely those who consider themselves believers. And if they really need a temple, that means they can organize themselves, join forces, create their own community in the form of a non-profit organization, "collectively" build this temple at their own expense and at its own expense maintain it, as it has always been in Russia from time immemorial centuries. You can even without a "non-profit organization" - just unite from the heart and build your own temple. This I can only welcome.
        The construction of huge, expensive temples for budgetary money is currently a crime in itself; I’m not talking about how much money is being stolen during these buildings.
        1. Pane Kohanku 29 March 2020 18: 50 New
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          Personally, I believe that the blame for such a terrible defeat of the church economy that the Bolsheviks committed in the 20-30s, which caused such enormous damage to Russian culture, lies equally with the Orthodox Church itself.

          I have the honor, Michael! And stand on your side. soldier
          I do not want to offend anyone, neither the respected administration of the site, nor the feelings of believers ....
          So here. As we can imagine, Perov’s painting “Tea drinking in Mytishchi” was not written from scratch. And this is with the king! hi

          I personally saw characters of a similar complexion (I'm talking about a churchman) near the St. Yuryev Monastery in Veliky Novgorod in October last year (my bride can confirm, Anton knows us). Walked two carcasses on the highway. From too much food ... no
          We analyze the following situations:
          When a dispute arose about St. Isaac's Cathedral, its director, People's Artist Nikolai Burov, resigned. Apparently, he could not stand it ... This man with his loud voice every year broadcasts at the Piskarevsky cemetery during the laying of wreaths about the blockade. soldier
          The second one. The church clung to Isaac for a reason. This is awesome feeding trough! Just a Klondike, sorry for the expression! A bunch of tourists .... who will go the money? wink
          And the last one. When I was at university, the abbot of the Trinity-Sergius desert, a monastery in Strelna - father Nikolai came to us at an information hour. He told us about the "love of neighbor" .....
          So here. The book "The Abode of the Northern Capital" was written. She lies on my lap.
          What was in this monastery until the 90s? Police school. From our hull behind the fence.
          So, we read.
          Page 209-210. Father Nikolai writes about the revival of the monastery. "We understood that if there was no service and prayer, we would not have the means to revive the monastery, and there was nowhere to wait for them. "
          Just a business! In fact - parasites ..
          The following describes how, along with the revival of shrines, the church “squeezed” the monastery buildings from the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The police school was evicted. For the sake of twenty to thirty parasites. Moreover, they were evicted to the base of the former military school, where there were not only window frames, but also the boxes themselves ..... Eight hundred people! Think ...
          Along the way, in his opus, Father Nikolai pours mud on the then head of the school. I AM Served after graduation under the direction of this person. It was a wonderful leader. soldier
          Think for yourself. Twenty parasites against hundreds of people. What right this individual has to talk about "love of neighbor" ?? angry

          I have the honor. Nikolay. soldier
          1. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 19: 23 New
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            My respect, Nikolai.
            I agree with what has been said, but it is not even a matter of specific personalities — those or other clergy. The point is the very essence of any religion. In prehistoric times, shamans began to receive bribes for their "labors", and so it happened. Religion (any, including paganism) is a business that exploits the human fear of the unknown. In this niche there are various enterprises - large and small, successful and not very old-timers with thousands of years of experience and freshly launched projects, the duration of which will not exceed several years. I personally do not see a fundamental difference between them.
            Like any business, having reached a certain level, religion gets the opportunity to influence politics, and in some places it becomes a leading political force.
            The presence in this or that denomination of sincerely and disinterested believers, including ascetics and preachers, also does not play a decisive role - they all somehow serve one purpose — expanding the “client base” and, accordingly, redistributing financial flows, naturally, in favor of or other religion.
            The Orthodox Church one hundred years ago decided to play politics, lost and - vae victis - got what is supposed to be in the loser. To lovers of an alternative story, I mean a good alternative story (Anton, Artyom, my respect hi smile ) we can offer to consider such a plot - in 1918, the Orthodox Church voluntarily transfers all its material assets to the Soviet government, actively supports the Bolsheviks and is no less active in building the Soviet state. What would we have after such a fork in history?
            1. Pane Kohanku 29 March 2020 19: 47 New
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              The presence in this or that denomination of sincerely and disinterested believers, including ascetics and preachers, also does not play a decisive role - they all somehow serve one purpose — expanding the “client base” and, accordingly, redistributing financial flows, naturally, in favor of or other religion.

              I wrote below about this business.
              one can propose to consider such a plot - in 1918 the Orthodox Church voluntarily transfers all of its material assets to Soviet power, actively supports the Bolsheviks and is no less actively involved in the construction of the Soviet state. What would we have after such a fork in history?

              I can definitely pray for one person - Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky. Greatest man was, bright memory to him. That's exactly who the saints needed to be glorified! soldier
              1. Military Builder 31 March 2020 10: 54 New
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                I can definitely pray for one person - Luka Voyno-Yasenetsky. The greatest man was, blessed with his memory. That's exactly who the saints needed to be glorified!

                so he was glorified and canonized in 1995
                1. Pane Kohanku 31 March 2020 12: 02 New
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                  so he was glorified and canonized in 1995

                  Sorry, I didn’t know this. The fact that he really was a man of genius, a true patriot (without pathos!), And just that - an example for ministers of the church - is true. yes survive so much .. and do so much ... not everyone can!
        2. sniperino 30 March 2020 00: 24 New
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          Quote: Trilobite Master
          The Bolsheviks who came to power in 1917 began to carry out total nationalization and secularization of property, as a result of which all owners — landowners, manufacturers, bankers — suffered, but the Orthodox Church suffered particularly large losses, simply because it had something to take away
          The property of the Russian Orthodox Church was and remains not private, but socialized property; monasteries were the first collective farms, and church property was always a national treasure, like exhibitions, libraries, lectures in the USSR. Socialized property is a sprout of communism, but possessed militant atheists do not care about communism, and they wanted to trample its sprouts.
          1. Trilobite Master 30 March 2020 10: 08 New
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            Quote: sniperino
            The property of the Russian Orthodox Church was and remains not private, but socialized property

            Not to a greater extent than property, for example, Gazprom. Do you feel his owner?
            Quote: sniperino
            monasteries were the first collective farms

            Some were even communes, but, unfortunately, they managed to own land and peasants, and much more than that, including gold, jewelry and, of course, money.
            Quote: sniperino
            church property has always been a national treasure

            Are you laughing I didn’t even hear that at least this was proclaimed, not that it was in reality. This is already some kind of distortion of reality in your head. In order for the monastery to provide its land to peasants for work free of charge, and not for predatory rents - this may have happened once or twice, but it did not influence the overall picture of church business completely.
            Quote: sniperino
            militant atheists don't care about communism

            Your "communism" is like a happy and fair society of ancient Greek philosophers, where each citizen is personally free, has the right to vote in elections and is wealthy - has at least three slaves.
            Once again I will repeat the main points that you did not understand.
            1. Any religion is a business, whose ultimate goal is profit. The Orthodox Church is the clearest example of this.
            2. For more than a thousand-year period, the Orthodox Church has collected and accumulated huge funds, including real estate with land.
            3. An attempt by the Bolsheviks to seize this property from church ownership and convert it into state property ran into fierce resistance from the Church, making it a political opponent of the Soviet regime.
            4. The Church lost the political struggle and, accordingly, received all the “charms” that the loser of the political struggle usually has - the deprivation of most property rights, repression, etc.
            Everything is fair, legal and logical.
            Or do you think that the Bolsheviks, having seized power and waged a terrible and brutal struggle for it with the exertion of all forces, should have listened calmly and graciously accepted how solid and wealthy bearded men curse them from all porches and pulpits and call on the people to speak out against them?
            1. sniperino April 14 2020 12: 56 New
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              Quote: Trilobite Master
              Any religion is a commercial enterprise whose ultimate goal is profit
              Religion is older than commerce and profit. If some merchants, whether they wear a cassock, uniform or civilian clothes, use the religious beliefs of others in order to make commercial profit, this is not a matter of religion, as they can do these tricks with any teaching, regardless of its truth and purpose.
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              This is already some kind of distortion of reality in your head. In order for the monastery to provide its land for work to peasants free of charge, and not for predatory rent
              In the 15th century, peasants were everywhere forced to work by non-economic (= predatory) methods, and they took the monastery lands on a voluntary basis. So there is no need here to scare people by "robber monks". Following your logic, it can be argued that in the USSR there was no national treasure at all, because no one would have provided you with land, its bowels, works of art, etc. "for work ... for free." This kind of “gratuitous work” was actually called “illegal business”, even if you did not use anything for free. Indeed, distortion.
      7. Walking 30 March 2020 14: 58 New
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        Quote: bober1982

        A robust comment, admitting errors always causes only respect.
        But why destroyed, what is the reason? After all, the Churches were smashed without any explanation, even from the point of view of godless authority. And, this applies not only to the Penza Cathedral.

        For the most part, the church and priests supported the white movement and were against the Soviet regime for this and were persecuted until the Great Patriotic War.
        1. bober1982 30 March 2020 16: 08 New
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          Quote: Hiking
          For the most part, the church and priests supported the white movement and were against the Soviet regime for this and were persecuted until the Great Patriotic War.

          The Church, did not support the White movement, which was virtually godless, the new government - all the more, I will not quote the Anathema of Patriarch Tikhon, where it is very clearly stated, including who destroyed the temples and why.
          Quote: Hiking
          and were persecuted before World War II

          By the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, only 3-4 hierarchs of the Russian Church remained, what kind of support for the White movement can we talk about?
          There were no persecutions - there was a massive rage towards the Church, the Great Patriotic War sobered up, including Stalin.
    2. freddyk 29 March 2020 07: 59 New
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      Quote: Bastinda
      Yes, the Soviet government had errors. One of them is the destruction (explosions) of historical temples.
      But building now, in their place, “remodels” - in my opinion, this is outright stupidity

      That removed from the language, I completely agree.
      1. Pane Kohanku 29 March 2020 19: 16 New
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        That removed from the language, I completely agree.

        instead of tens of thousands of closed schools and hospitals, twice as many churches were built ... let priests and treat for the virus and other things! am
        Hmm .. here on central channels honestly there is a collection of money via SMS for children for the operation ... My friends .. You did not wonder ... what and does the richest church deduct anything? I'm not sure for some reason ... request
        Guys! The church is the most correct and profitable business forever and ever! fellow Whoever to praise - Astarte, Osiris, Zeus, Christ or Mohammed, and even the Macaroni Monster or the "Messiah Corres" - it will be most profitable business. You pay money themselves for believing. Do not give them a month! Look at the reaction ... wink good promise more than a guarantor in the last speech! good
        I myself am a believer. But deeply against those "of people" (in quotation marks) that they took on the role of "intermediaries" between us and God. hi I have the honor!
        1. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 19: 47 New
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          Quote: Pan Kohanku
          The church is the most correct and profitable business forever and ever!

          Holy words, Nikolai! smile drinks
          1. Pane Kohanku 29 March 2020 19: 55 New
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            Holy words, Nikolai!

            I tried, Michael, and your words are dear drinks the enchanted wanderer Mikado died. crying There was an evil bon vivan to Pana Kohanku! angry
            My bride and I were in September in Sergievka - the former estate of Maria Nikolaevna and the Duke of Leuchtenberg - the son of Eugene Bogarne. There, between Sergievka and Own dacha, a church was built - a remake, of course. We went in ... saw the priest .. and completely disbelieved .. negative Too business. With a certain tone of voice, and even with laying on the head. Just a business! request
            "Captain Mikhailov" becomes Volterian, Mikhail ... request
            1. Trilobite Master 29 March 2020 20: 39 New
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              Quote: Pan Kohanku
              "Captain Mikhailov" becomes a Volterian,

              "Hell is better company." smile
              Personally, of all the high-ranking officials of the church, I am especially impressed by the uncle who lived in the XNUMXth century. named Pierre Abelard. To speak at that time about such things about which he spoke - free will, “to know in order to believe, and not to believe, to know”, retribution by intention, not by deed, lack of dogma, doubt about the infallibility of the church fathers, etc. P. At the same time, he was also engaged in secular literature, music, loved and was loved by a woman ...
              And Voltaire is a bully and an outrage. smile
              1. Pane Kohanku 29 March 2020 20: 47 New
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                “to know, to believe, and not to believe, to know,” retribution by intention, and not by deed, lack of dogma, doubt about the infallibility of the church fathers, etc. At the same time, he was also engaged in secular literature, music, loved and was loved by a woman ...

                I think Cardinal Richelieu was something similar - and the smartest statesman! That is, the mind and common sense should be above all! Yes, and that same patriotism!
    3. EvilLion 30 March 2020 08: 44 New
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      99% of these temples were nafig nobody needed.
  • hhhhhhh 29 March 2020 07: 32 New
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    so big, most likely at the state expense.
  • Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 07: 34 New
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    At least there will be a place for the poor. Under the golden dumplings.
    1. parusnik 29 March 2020 09: 30 New
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      Mordvin 3 (Vladimir)
      At least there will be a place for the poor. Under the golden dumplings.

      When the service ends, Ivan Ivanovich will not tolerate in any way, so as not to go around all the poor. Perhaps he would not want to do such a boring thing if natural kindness did not prompt him to do so.
      - Great, wretched! - he usually said, having found the most mutilated woman, in a tattered dress sewn from patches. - Where are you from, poor?
      - I, darling, came from a farm: the third day, when I didn’t drink, didn’t eat, my own children kicked me out.
      - Poor little head, why did you come here?
      - And so, panochka, to ask alms if anyone would give me anything for bread.
      - Um! Well, do you really want bread? - Ivan Ivanovich usually asked.
      - How not to want! hungry like a dog.
      - Um! - answered usually Ivan Ivanovich. “So, maybe you want some meat?”
      - Yes, everything that your mercy will give, I will be happy with everyone.
      - Um! Is meat better than bread?
      - Where is the hungry to disassemble. Everything you grant is all good.
      In this case, the old woman usually held out her hand.
      “Well, go with God,” said Ivan Ivanovich.
      - What are you worth? because I do not beat you! - and, turning with such questions to another, to the third, he finally returns home or comes in to drink a glass of vodka to his neighbor Ivan Nikiforovich, or to the judge, or to the mayor.
  • tatra 29 March 2020 07: 37 New
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    "Everything is back to square one." Once again, the bourgeois and the bourgeois authorities, who had enriched themselves at the expense of the people, enriched the priests, tens of thousands of churches, temples, mosques, synagogues, and all of them did not care about the people. For 30 years after the destruction of the USSR, they destroyed tens of thousands of schools and hospitals for the people.
  • Mihail2019 29 March 2020 07: 41 New
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    Hooray! Give more temples !! Instead of kindergartens, schools, technical schools, institutes ..
    So win! She stood on and will stand .. Russia ?!
    The restoration of the destroyed, of course, pleases. Only recovery is one-sided.
    Destroyed production, education and science are in no hurry to restore. But the temples - they put it right on the stream ..
    And the author is an ardent anti-Soviet!
    1. Aviator_ 29 March 2020 10: 07 New
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      You are here recently, therefore, you do not know that the author is a former teacher of Marxism-Leninism. If he does not write about ancient history or about the armor of knights, then in his notes he tells about his difficult childhood and his terrible life in the USSR.
      1. CT-55_11-9009 29 March 2020 11: 57 New
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        Quote: Aviator_
        author - former teacher of Marxism-Leninism

        Seriously? No jokes, no banter? Well, that explains a lot ...
        1. Aviator_ 29 March 2020 12: 56 New
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          Very seriously. Take a look at his articles on VO, how he did his dissertation in Samara, how he later mowed down from the army, having left to teach history in the village, well, etc. He wrote a lot about his difficult Soviet past.
          1. kalibr 29 March 2020 18: 29 New
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            Quote: Aviator_
            Sergei

            Sergei, what I don’t like is the distortion of the facts of my biography, not after, but before ... immediately after graduation, and not after graduate school. Well, it’s not so ... That a person might think that after graduate school someone went to the village - fi, what nonsense. And I did not teach any Marxism-Leninism. Otherwise, my item was called. Here it is necessary for sure. You write about a person, not about a car .. For inaccurate advertising in Russia, we are punished in court!
        2. kalibr 29 March 2020 18: 32 New
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          Quote: CT-55_11-9009
          Well, that explains a lot ...

          And what does this explain, dear Semyon? Well, am I very interested to learn from you?
  • kjhg 29 March 2020 07: 42 New
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    Religion in the Republic of Ingushetia was the main instrument for controlling the masses, justifying slavery and serfdom, proclaiming the assassin-kings and the empress-sh ... x governors of God. But this is not religion to blame! Religions are not bad. This is to blame for the parasitic structure, which has arrogated to itself to speak on behalf of God. To the last, she fiercely opposed the abolition of serfdom and the right to education by peasants. This structure, along with the despotic tsarist government, is to blame for the myriad crimes against the Russian people, who became hostage in the hands of a criminal community, consisting of tsars, boyars and priests.
    And now, more than 100 years have passed since the liberation from this tyranny, the beginning of universal reformation, the widespread construction of schools, hospitals, etc. What do we see today? Schools and hospitals are closing down everywhere, villages are massively dying. But almost on every street they build churches. And this is in the 21st century!
    1. Hantengri 29 March 2020 14: 50 New
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      Quote: kjhg
      But this is not religion to blame! Religions are not bad. This is to blame for the parasitic structure, which has arrogated to itself to speak on behalf of God.

      You confuse Faith and religion. Faith, she is always about the soul, and religion, she is always about money. hi
      1. kjhg 29 March 2020 14: 52 New
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        Quote: HanTengri
        Faith, she is always about the soul, and religion, she is always about money.

        Exactly hi
        1. Pane Kohanku 29 March 2020 19: 39 New
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          Exactly

          I will subscribe to you both! hi
  • apro 29 March 2020 07: 48 New
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    What did the author want to say with this article? Arouse sympathy for the church? Once again condemn the Soviet regime? But looking at today's church and its ministers sometimes ask yourself a question ... are the Bolsheviks really wrong ....
  • Mikhalych 29 March 2020 07: 58 New
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    I got the impression that the opponents of the temple are former members of the union of atheists Yaroslav Gubelman, got out of the coffins and spread cemetery incense here. Or puberty slag, having read all sorts of rubbish.
    hi
  • Amateur 29 March 2020 07: 59 New
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    One local alcoholic called out for three quarters of vodka (9 liters, not bad, however!). When the bell fell, it touched the ceiling, and there was such a loud pop that many people even got their ears closed. A drunkard fell unconscious, he was shell-shocked. And three days later he died!

    When they blew up - it is not known. But how much vodka the author established with historical accuracy.
    Unfortunately, the author did not complete his historical investigation. In connection with the death of a local alcoholic
    three quarters of vodka (9 liters,
    remained unowned. But in Russia, ownerless vodka does not exist. So someone drank it. But who is the most important Penza secret of those years. As a reader of VO, I hope that Mr. Shpakovsky will finish his investigation and we will find out this terrible secret. request
    1. bober1982 29 March 2020 08: 15 New
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      Quote: Amateur
      Unfortunately, the author did not complete his historical investigation. In connection with the death of a local alcoholic

      The fate of those who smashed the Church is unenviable; at that time, of course, people were corrupted, but they were afraid to "raise their hands" at the temples, the fear and conscience of the Russian people still remained.
  • old_pferd 29 March 2020 08: 06 New
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    I think all journalists were ashamed, and therefore did not write. Joyfully - did not want to, with condemnation - were afraid
    1. Olgovich 29 March 2020 11: 48 New
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      Quote: old_pferd
      I think all journalists were ashamed, and therefore did not write. Joyfully - did not want tocondemned - were afraid

      Why so?
      There was such a famous owl. journalist, so-called "Michael of the rings" (in kind, Moses Khaimovich Fridlyand) - a pillar of Bolshevik journalism, a relaxer of Pravda - he wrote as much as heated and weeping with emotion from the destruction of temples.

      True, the friends did not appreciate it: they shot him, together with his wife (see decisions of the USSR Armed Forces) in 1940 yes
      1. old_pferd 29 March 2020 11: 57 New
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        I was referring to local journalists.
        1. Olgovich 29 March 2020 12: 26 New
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          Quote: old_pferd
          I was referring to local journalists.

          So he is a local, a Muscovite, -giggled joyfully on the ruins of Moscow churches
          1. old_pferd 29 March 2020 14: 39 New
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            It seems to be about Penza and its temple. And the lack of references in the local newspaper "Working Penza".
      2. Sergej1972 29 March 2020 18: 11 New
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        And his brother, cartoonist Boris Efimov, became a laureate of the Stalin Prize, died several years ago at the age of 107 years.
        1. fuxila 30 March 2020 04: 25 New
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          Therefore, he lived to 107 years, because he did not follow in the footsteps of his brother ...
  • Gennady Korsunov 29 March 2020 08: 19 New
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    I’m baptized towards the church like that .. There is, well, let it be, no, well, and don’t .. But for the whole time of the thieves' reign, I have never heard from the chapters. priest, words of reproach to thieves .. And I did not hear words of support from the people !! But the churches are being built at an accelerated pace and everything is at our expense.
    1. Phil77 29 March 2020 08: 41 New
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      I agree with your opinion! I stand by. Although no one bothers them to express their authoritative opinion / for believers / about this.
      1. fuxila 30 March 2020 05: 29 New
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        Why are you carrying all this nonsense with a smart look? One of the ten commandments of Christianity is called - do not steal. Any theft, regardless of the amount of stolen and social status of a thief by the church is condemned. Or do you, in your naivety, think that the church has the authority to conduct investigations and assume the functions of the prosecutor's office, after which the priests should announce lists of thieves from the pulpit? If you go to church and don’t hear how priests condemn human vices, then maybe you didn’t attend church, but the sect of the god Kuzi?
  • Butchcassidy 29 March 2020 08: 19 New
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    The right thing. Demolish - do not build. It’s not you who built, not you demolished. In this regard, I like the practice in Moscow - all the monuments to Ilyich are being restored. It remains "Iron Felix" in place to return.
    1. Phil77 29 March 2020 08: 39 New
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      Good morning! Moscow. Monuments to V.I. Lenin. Stand in their place-73, dismantled-7, in the rooms / metro, foyer, etc./- 10. Many of course need restoration.
      1. Butchcassidy 29 March 2020 10: 40 New
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        There are hundreds, if not thousands, of monuments in Moscow. All are restored in order. If you have specific suggestions - write to the Department of Cultural Heritage of Moscow. Separately, the situation with monuments in private territories - factories, embassies, etc. The city does not repair them.
    2. Olgovich 29 March 2020 20: 04 New
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      Quote: ButchCassidy
      It remains "Iron Felix" in place to return.

      And his place is near n, i.e., today's.

      At this place was a beautiful Moscow Fountain, which was demolished in the 1930s.

      Avot ngo and must be restored. yes
  • Fat
    Fat 29 March 2020 08: 22 New
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    Many cities of Russia have their own blown up churches ... Some of them are being restored and many of them are donated by caring citizens.
    Some churches, temples are being rebuilt, others are being restored from ruins.
    As for "opium for the people," there is no party committee or trade union committee now. People with their misfortune go to church for comfort. Atheists go to other "psychologists", to psychologists.
    All this is better than shopping for inexpensive relaxation ...
    1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 13: 30 New
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      Quote: Thick
      Many cities of Russia have their own blown up churches ...

      And we have a young city, founded in the twenties. There were no church churches, and no one was worried. But now there are, but no movie theaters.
      1. Fat
        Fat 29 March 2020 14: 37 New
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        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        And we have a young city, founded in the twenties. There were no church churches, and no one was worried. But now there are, but no movie theaters.

        There are no shopping centers in your city?
        I was sure that the network of cinemas such as "five stars" were everywhere marked ..
        Many, even typical Soviet cinemas were closed due to stringent fire safety requirements,
        but not at all because nobody needs them. What happens when I ignore these requirements I will not remind you, it’s still bitter.
        1. Mordvin 3 29 March 2020 14: 55 New
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          Quote: Thick
          I was sure that the network of cinemas such as "five stars" were everywhere marked ..

          Not a single cinema was left. Four was. In the first place - the church, the second-third - the shopping center, the fourth was covered after the "Winter Cherry". By the way, it was rebuilt, but everything was fine there with security in the USSR. You open the door and let in freeloader friends.
  • tatra 29 March 2020 08: 31 New
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    The main thing in religion is not premises / buildings, but PEOPLE. And none of the religious fanatics is able to prove what great benefit the richest Church brought to the poor people in the Russian Empire, and what great benefit the wealthy Church, including Gundyaev, brought to the Russian people after the imposition of religion on Russia and its people, starting with anti-Soviet Perestroika.
    1. Phil77 29 March 2020 08: 57 New
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      Good morning, Irina! Let’s decide, what kind of benefit do you mean? Spiritual? Material? Here, after all, everything is not so simple, if people go to the temple, it means that they, people, need it. Correct? This is about the spiritual. About the material. It’s not a secret that the church is engaged in charity. How much? I don’t know. I’ll say right away that I’m an atheist, I’ve been educated like that! Attitude towards the church? It’s more neutral, but the top of the church, not only Orthodox, has an unhealthy interest in material values, of course annoying.
      1. tatra 29 March 2020 09: 03 New
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        Not an argument, people go to brothels because they need it.
        And the argument is that the colossal money of the people was spent on priests and the construction of religious buildings in both the Republic of Ingushetia and post-Soviet Russia. And no one is able to prove how much benefit they have brought to the country and people.
        The argument is that the atheistic USSR was much kinder, fairer, more honest, moral, more moral, more humane than religious RI and post-Soviet Russia.
        1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 08 New
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          Quote: tatra
          Not an argument, people go to brothels because they need it.

          Are you so sure this is not an argument?
          Quote: tatra
          The argument is that the atheistic USSR was much kinder, fairer, more honest, moral, more moral, more humane than religious RI and post-Soviet Russia.

          Possibly. But why. WHY? In1991, no one stood up to defend him, did you think about that?
          1. tatra 29 March 2020 09: 15 New
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            In the cowardly manner of the enemies of the Soviet regime, it is NOT necessary to blame responsibility for what some people did on other people. Just as the Bolsheviks and their supporters captured the country in October 1917, so did their enemies in 1985-1991. Only the Bolshevik Communists and their supporters have always been proud and proud of the October Revolution, and their enemies cowardly blame them for their counter-revolution of 1985-1991.
            And your comment is also NOT an argument to justify the planting of religion.
            1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 21 New
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              Quote: tatra
              In the cowardly manner of the enemies of the Soviet regime, it is NOT necessary to blame responsibility for what some people did on other people.

              Are you normal, without slogans, you can argue and argue? Some * enemies of the Soviet power * in your comments.
              1. tatra 29 March 2020 09: 29 New
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                Ha, don’t get out of the cowardly manner of the enemies of the Soviet power — when you have no arguments in the discussion. All the best, don’t be ill.
                1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 34 New
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                  Quote: * Ivan Vasilievich, sometimes it seems to me that you are raving. *
                2. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 40 New
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                  Do not minus your * notes * purely out of politeness.
              2. Aviator_ 29 March 2020 10: 15 New
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                And what, there were no enemies, they were invented by Yezhov and Beria?
                1. Phil77 29 March 2020 10: 52 New
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                  Quote: Aviator_
                  And what, there were no enemies, they were invented by Yezhov and Beria?

                  Question to question: What kind of power is it if it has no enemies? Only we seem to be trying to talk about the church, or rather, about the blown up church and its restoration.
            2. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 24 New
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              Quote: tatra
              And your comment is also NOT an argument to justify the planting of religion.

              Yes, why did you get the fact that I JUSTIFY THE INSTITUTION OF RELIGION ???? The world consists not only of black and white. In your case, of red and black!
            3. Senior seaman 29 March 2020 18: 26 New
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              Everything is much worse. When the October Revolution took place, people who disagreed with it were able to organize and spent four years fighting.
              And in 1991, not a single scum in defense of the Soviet regime did not come out. On the contrary, the middle managers of the CPSU and the Komsomol in front of their screech rushed to row the people's good for themselves, and almost 20 million party members stood and watched.
              so everything went without "enemies." They did it themselves.
              1. Olgovich 29 March 2020 20: 13 New
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                Quote: Senior Sailor
                Everything is much worse. When the October Revolution took place, people who disagreed with it were able to organize and spent four years fighting.
                And in 1991 not a single bastard in defense of the Soviet government didn't speak. On the contrary, the middle managers of the CPSU and the Komsomol in front of their screech rushed to row the people's good for themselves, and almost 20 million party members stood and watched.

                Absolutely true!

                Moreover, in 91m none of even her guardians present here defended.

                it says a lot ....
            4. Hantengri 29 March 2020 19: 09 New
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              Quote: tatra
              How the Bolsheviks and their supporters captured the country in October 1917,so their enemies in 1985-1991 captured the country.

              All right. It remains only to find out how the "enemies of the Communists" (c), in commodity quantities, made their way into the leadership of "The Mind, Honor and Our Conscience ..."? What was wrong with what?
          2. Victorio 29 March 2020 09: 34 New
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            Quote: Phil77
            Possibly. But why. WHY? In1991, no one stood up to defend him, did you think about that?

            ===
            coups they are coups in africa, then the Bolsheviks, in the 90s other driving forces.
            but to defend something, not many rushed to defend power in Ukraine
            1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 39 New
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              Quote: Victorio
              coups they are coups in Africa, then the Bolsheviks, in the 90s other driving forces

              It’s difficult to say whether there was a banal coup. Preparation took too long, remember that time? Empty shelves, coupons for everything / almost /, meetings of the Supreme Council and their broadcast to the whole country. Too many factors came together at the right time and place. Yes, and oil prices yet!
              1. Victorio 29 March 2020 09: 45 New
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                Quote: Phil77
                It is difficult to say whether there was a banal coup.

                ===
                there was a coup / turn / turn, there is no special difference. but there are always those who need it.
          3. Aviator_ 29 March 2020 10: 14 New
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            The situation of 1991 repeated the situation of 1917, when no one spoke out for snickering Nicholas II. Both Gorbachev and the last Romanov really compromised themselves.
          4. DeusExMachina 29 March 2020 14: 06 New
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            Quote: Phil77
            Quote: tatra
            Not an argument, people go to brothels because they need it.

            Are you so sure this is not an argument?
            Quote: tatra
            The argument is that the atheistic USSR was much kinder, fairer, more honest, moral, more moral, more humane than religious RI and post-Soviet Russia.

            Possibly. But why. WHY? In1991, no one stood up to defend him, did you think about that?

            The answer is simple and complex at the same time: all life is a struggle. The struggle of opposites.
            With the coming of the Bolsheviks to power, the struggle did not stop - it only intensified.
            Even Joseph Vissarionovich wrote that the class struggle as the construction of a socialist state will only increase. And what did we see? The arrival of an uneducated schemer, the creation of fakes, the Twentieth Congress. First push? No. Just one of those that never stopped. The problem with him was that he could not be repaid. Well, let's go further - restructuring. Alexander Yakovlev is engaged in falsification of history, working on the main dogmas of perestroika and on how to poison people with events that will happen later.
            In fact - another push. Very powerful. Taking into account the previous ones (they were in Brezhnev’s times, but in order to consider everything, you need not to write comments, but monographs), he had devastating consequences. The result - the collapse of the USSR. And so in everything - the struggle of opposites. The collapse of the USSR-cause and effect at the same time.

            Now, let's put everything together in a single picture and answer the question, why didn’t they come out to defend? The answer will be matched by all reasoning - dual. On the one hand, the reason for this is a series of blows inflicted on the statehood of the USSR, on the other hand, a change in the attitude of people towards the USSR itself as a result of the blows inflicted and the lack of force fully formed and ready to defend the USSR.
      2. Ua3qhp 29 March 2020 09: 13 New
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        Dear "Caliber", such material as "nitrotitanium", especially in the form of sheets does not happen.
        There is titanium nitride material, which is used as a coating for metal cutting tools, dentures, and gilding domes; for domes, it is usually applied to stainless steel.
        1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 15 New
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          Sorry, but I'm not * Caliber *. Mistake came out!
        2. kalibr 29 March 2020 09: 20 New
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          Quote: Ua3qhp
          Dear "Caliber", such material as "nitrotitanium", especially in the form of sheets does not happen.
          There is titanium nitride material, which is used as a coating for metal cutting tools, dentures, and gilding domes; for domes, it is usually applied to stainless steel.

          What was written in the press release of the diocese, I wrote. I'm not a dental technician ...
          1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 30 New
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            Good morning! Well, Vyacheslav Olegovich, you wrote this article !!!! If the ultra-commies are here with their * enemies of the Soviet regime *, then you can imagine what will begin in the afternoon?!?!?
          2. Aviator_ 29 March 2020 10: 18 New
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            And to look at Vick - was it weak?
            1. kalibr 29 March 2020 14: 31 New
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              What for? When I have in my hands an official document of the diocese. Materials from which are published on the site of the region. I don’t have time to climb every wiki.
          3. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 11: 39 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            What was written in the press release of the diocese,

            A vivid example of the propaganda of illiteracy! laughing
      3. Amateur 29 March 2020 09: 14 New
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        Tobacco scandal - events related to duty-free import of excisable goods into Russia by structures close to the Russian Orthodox Church under the auspices of the Nika Charitable Foundation and the Russian Orthodox Church Humanitarian Aid Headquarters in 1996. (Wiki)

        The Russian Orthodox Church does not deny the fact of transactions on the import of tobacco and alcohol products, but does not recognize the personal interest in them of the future patriarch. Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin [9] and religious scholar Roman Silantyev [10] filed lawsuits (and won trials) for libel against journalist Sergei Bychkov on other issues, but this was not done personally by Metropolitan Kirill regarding media materials about the “tobacco metropolitan”, nor other hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church. (Wiki)
        1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 18 New
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          You probably thought that I protect church hierarchs?
      4. Butchcassidy 29 March 2020 10: 41 New
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        I agree with the latter. But to see the Church as a gathering of saints is foolish. There are the same people there, only in robes, if we are talking about the priesthood.
        1. Phil77 29 March 2020 10: 57 New
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          Even a hint in my koment that there was no assembly of saints! hi
          1. Butchcassidy 29 March 2020 14: 55 New
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            Many perceive this
  • I
    I 29 March 2020 09: 14 New
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    Judging by most of the comments, I have nothing more to say to the author, besides this:

    “Do not give sanctuary to the dogs and do not throw your pearls before the pigs, lest they trample it underfoot with their feet and, turning, do not tear you to pieces” (Matthew 7: 6).
  • Foxnova 29 March 2020 09: 15 New
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    Within 1 km of this building, there are 3 more churches and a monastery and only one hospital
    Draw your own conclusions ....
    1. Butchcassidy 29 March 2020 10: 42 New
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      And what is the conclusion? This is a historical center, do you think hospitals should be packed there?
      1. Ingvar 72 29 March 2020 11: 43 New
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        Quote: ButchCassidy
        This is a historical center, do you think hospitals should be packed there?

        Why is it always "stuffed"? But against the backdrop of the massive closure of existing hospitals, the construction of many churches is truly perplexing.
        Watch an interesting video about the extinction of the native Russian regions of Russia.
      2. Foxnova 29 March 2020 14: 59 New
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        I mean, not all believers in our country, but the absolute majority use medical and educational institutions

        And in the design we have spelled out something about a secular state.
    2. Fat
      Fat 29 March 2020 16: 22 New
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      Quote: FoxNova
      Within 1 km of this building, there are 3 more churches and a monastery and only one hospital
      Draw your own conclusions ....

      The conclusion is that you completely ignore private (paid) medical facilities. District city hospital, yes, as a rule, one per district and usually takes a whole quarter. It is insurance. And around there is a huge amount of all kinds of dentistry and diagnostic centers ... Directly to the envy of Chernigans and the white clergy.
      Here is a service to visit, to listen to a sermon or just to come in - always free.
  • Bastinda 29 March 2020 09: 23 New
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    Quote: bober1982
    This is how Archpriest Ornatsky was shot (along with his sons)
    Red Army platoon - refused and fled, the Chinese were called, these also refused.
    Finished young non-Russian commissars.

    What a horror! Documents will be? At the same time, you can fix the Wiki article ...
    "Archpriest Philosopher Ornatsky and his sons were shot in the course of the Red Terror, presumably, circa October 30, 1918. Along the way, he read aloud the departures over the condemned. According to one data, the shooting occurred in Kronstadt, according to others - not far from the Gulf of Finland between Ligovo and Oranienbaum. The bodies of the executed apparently were dumped into the bay. "
  • Ua3qhp 29 March 2020 09: 24 New
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    Quote: Phil77
    Sorry, but I'm not * Caliber *. Mistake came out!

    Phil77 - I'm sorry. Not in your address was a comment.
    1. Phil77 29 March 2020 09: 32 New
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      It happens, a matter of everyday life! Good luck to you! hi
  • Ua3qhp 29 March 2020 09: 25 New
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    Quote: kalibr
    What was written in the press release of the diocese, I wrote. I'm not a dental technician ...

    According to your articles, I represented you as a technically competent person, critical of the sources.
    1. kalibr 29 March 2020 14: 33 New
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      Quote: Ua3qhp
      critical to the sources.

      Looking to which ... In this case, such nonsense of the weather does not.
  • Million 29 March 2020 09: 27 New
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    The paradox of the current government: there are not enough hospitals, kindergartens, but for some reason they are building churches for as many as a day ..
    1. tatra 29 March 2020 09: 56 New
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      But this is called the priorities of those who own the country. Some destroyed churches, but they built factories, factories, research institutes, sanatoriums, rest houses, pioneer camps, schools, hospitals for the people, while others destroy it all, and crowded tens of thousands of churches and temples.
      1. Victorio 29 March 2020 10: 15 New
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        Quote: tatra
        But this is called the priorities of those who own the country

        ====
        the priority of any power is the power itself, and the ways to hold it are different
    2. Victorio 29 March 2020 10: 07 New
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      Quote: Million
      The paradox of the current government: there are not enough hospitals, kindergartens, but for some reason they are building churches for as many as a day ..

      ====
      unfortunately the church itself is not alien to human passions
    3. Fat
      Fat 29 March 2020 16: 35 New
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      Quote: Million
      The paradox of the current government: there are not enough hospitals, kindergartens, but for some reason they are building churches for as many as a day ..

      The church has no relation to secular power, keep this in mind and the “paradox” will cease to be so.
      1. Million 29 March 2020 17: 43 New
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        Naive .. I did not have it during the USSR.
        1. Fat
          Fat 29 March 2020 18: 16 New
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          Quote: Million
          Naive .. I did not have it during the USSR.

          Yes. Naive ... Rather, a romantic. The state is separate from the church, but not from culture and art.)))
          Listen!
          Listen to this!
          After all, if the stars light up -
          So - does anyone need this?
          So - someone wants them to be?
          So - someone calls these spitters a pearl?
          And, tearing up
          in the snowstorms of midday dust,
          breaks into God,
          afraid that he was late,
          crying,
          kisses his sinewy hand,
          asks -
          so there must be a star! -
          swears -
          will not bear this starless flour!
          And then
          walks alarming,
          but quiet outside.
          He says to someone:
          “Now, do you have anything?
          Not scary?
          Yes?!"
          Listen to this!
          After all, if the stars
          light up -
          So - does anyone need this?
          So - this is necessary,
          every evening
          over roofs
          at least one star caught fire ?!
          [1914] Mayakovsky V.V.
  • 3x3zsave 29 March 2020 09: 58 New
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    Thanks for the article, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    On the subject of the discussion, I want to note the following: for some reason, none of those discussing, be it an agnostic, deeply religious, communist or monarchist, has doubts about the need for the restoration of Issakiy or the Savior on Blood. But when it came to restoring the destroyed monument of architecture (yes, that’s how I perceive this construction), the forum flashed with Shakespearean passions.
    1. tatra 29 March 2020 10: 21 New
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      Well, let's bring your "logic" to the point of absurdity. If this temple, about which it is necessary to restore in the article, to spend huge money of the people on its restoration, then all other temples and churches that existed in the Russian Empire must be restored, having spent on their restoration the colossal money of the people. And let the people endure "there is no money, but you hold on."
      1. 3x3zsave 29 March 2020 10: 31 New
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        bring
        Not in your case. For I consider such a discussion to be fruitless initially, like any other attempt to engage in dialogue with a supporter of one idea. Fanaticism and logic are incompatible concepts.
        1. tatra 29 March 2020 10: 38 New
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          Well, again, a cowardly escape from the discussion. None of those who answered my comments in this topic could refute my words that none of those who plant religion can prove what benefit it brought to Russia and its people, they only made an unnecessary squabble.
          1. 3x3zsave 29 March 2020 10: 50 New
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            When and if you are ready to disengage from your faith, stop labeling and use slogans, I’m ready to maintain a dialogue on any topic of mutual interest. Otherwise, I can only wish you all the best.
            1. tatra 29 March 2020 10: 52 New
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              Well again. Are you able to prove that planting a religion has benefited Russia and its people? NO, so why are you stubbornly pestering me?
              1. 3x3zsave 29 March 2020 10: 55 New
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                Sorry, I didn’t pester you. It was you who reacted nervously to my comment, which was not addressed to you at all.
              2. Senior seaman 29 March 2020 18: 32 New
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                Quote: tatra
                Are you able to prove that planting a religion has benefited Russia and its people?

                The question is not for me, but easily. All Slavic peoples who adopted Christianity at one time retained their identity in one way or another. Including Russians. Everyone else was assimilated.
          2. Olgovich 29 March 2020 12: 52 New
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            Quote: tatra
            my words that none of those who plant religion can prove what benefit it brought to Russia and its people

            She created millennial Russia in the form in which we know it and RUSSIAN PEOPLE- The best people on Earth: sincere, kind, brave, intelligent, talented, conscientious and beautiful.

            In the Temples of Russia, the Russian people put their whole soul and beauty, talent and art.

            In your stupid "girls with a paddle" and countless kirly-myrksly and ilychah-there is NOTHING.

            All this appeared in a passing and -SANUTS into oblivion forever, unlike Millennium Russia

            PS And schools, hospitals, people's houses, etc., were built and are being built WORLDWIDE, and, interestingly, WITHOUT your "benefactors".

            And, most importantly, slash it on your forehead: NEVER in your History, Russia has SUFFERED SUCH casualties in people and territories, as AT YOU,

            It is simply a FACT!
            1. tatra 29 March 2020 18: 42 New
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              In general, as required to prove, a bunch of malicious answers to me from the "highly spiritual" adherents of religion, and not one that proves the real benefits that the religionists planting in Russia bring to the country and people — like in the Russian Empire, which is in post-Soviet Russia. But this truth is that after the destruction of Soviet ideology, and the impudent propagation of religion, a terrible fall in morality occurred on the territory of the USSR, all true values ​​were devalued, and false values ​​were instilled ..
              1. Olgovich 29 March 2020 19: 58 New
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                Quote: tatra
                In general, as required to prove, a bunch of evil answers to me from the "highly spiritual" adherents of religion, and not one that proves real benefit , which was brought by religionists planting in Russia to the country and the people, like in the Russian Empire and in post-Soviet Russia.

                1. Didn’t get it again?

                Then it’s easier to say: think, WHY, FROM WHERE the Russian people took conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion, truth-seeking, justice, spirituality, i.e. that makes him RUSSIAN, and not mankurt?

                Bolsheviks, I remind you, in its thousand-year history - THERE WASN’T BEEN (except for the massive period recently)

                2. "The real benefit in your hostile anti-communist understanding of WHAT means? To you in parrots or in meters?
                Quote: tatra
                But this truth is that after the destruction of Soviet ideology and the impudent propagation of religion, a terrible fall in morality occurred in the territory of the USSR, all true values ​​were devalued, and false values ​​were imposed.

                a monstrous decline in morality, mind you ....Soviet, brought up by YOUR idols, peopleThat's why it happened.

                But the return of the Russian people to their millennial path-returns to people eternal human values.

                And let me remind you: it's tens of millions conscience people.... they charged water from the TV, sore spots were applied there (um, even, oh!) -for healing, they studied Kashpirovsky’s bells from enuresis, etc.
                1. tatra 29 March 2020 20: 04 New
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                  What nonsense you wrote. Both positive and negative human qualities are qualities of each person’s mentality. For example, answer, you acknowledge that the religious anti-Soviet people with all its qualities that it showed during its freedom from the Communists, with all its priorities, for which it was so eager to take over the USSR, and which it would so boast about after the capture of the USSR, defeat a united Europe led by Hitler, who attacked the country?
                  1. Olgovich 29 March 2020 20: 32 New
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                    Quote: tatra
                    What nonsense you wrote

                    Do fools judge stupidity? request
                    Quote: tatra
                    Both positive and negative human qualities are qualities of each person’s mentality.

                    1. And what are "negative", for example? Who determined this? lol

                    2. You, already obviously, are not able to answer the question: WHY, WHERE HERE did the Russian people take conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion, truth-seeking, justice, spirituality, ie that makes him RUSSIAN, and not mankurt .. request WHAT made him so?

                    These concepts, apparently, are simply unknown to you.

                    Namely, they determine the FACE of the Russian people. And it is determined LONG to YOU.
                    You scratched it, twisted it, broke it, but it didn’t work out.
                    Quote: tatra
                    You acknowledge that the religious anti-Soviet people with all its qualities, which he showed during his freedom from the Communists, with all his priorities, for which he was so eager to take over the USSR, and with which he boasts so much after the capture of the USSR, would NOT be able to defeat united Europe led by Hitler, who attacked the country?

                    1.Find out, finally: the Russian people saved themselves and their homeland in TENS WAR and throughout many HUNDREDS!

                    Spas as always, and in the Second World War.

                    The huge country captured by yours was not created by YOU, but before you.
                    You stupidly prlli her.

                    2. Without YOU, WWII would simply DID NOT HAVE, and the 45th year would have happened already in 1918
                    1. tatra 29 March 2020 21: 03 New
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                      Absolutely meaningless verbiage, and in the end, in accordance with the mentality and negative qualities of the enemies of the Communists, is the justification of Hitler and the Nazis who attacked the USSR and killed 27 million Soviet people. You, the religious enemies of the Bolshevik Communists, with your human qualities, condone the invaders of Russia as well, and praise their collaborators from among the Russian people.
                      1. Olgovich 30 March 2020 08: 23 New
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                        Quote: tatra
                        Absolutely meaningless verbiage, and in the end - in accordance with the mentality and negative qualities of enemies Communists -justification of Hitler and the Nazis who attacked the USSR and killed 27 million Soviet people. You , religious enemies of the Bolsheviks-Communists, with your human qualities,you justify the invaders of Russia invaders praise their accomplices -collaborators from among the Russian people.

                        Falling .... lol laughing

                        Come on, bye! lol
                      2. Phil77 30 March 2020 09: 00 New
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                        Andrew! This does not have the slightest prospect! Therefore:
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Come on, bye!

                        The best answer! hi
              2. Sugar Honeyovich 31 March 2020 13: 47 New
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                Quote: Olgovich
                WHY, FROM WHERE did the Russian people take conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion, truth-seeking, justice, spirituality,

                And really: why and where?

                "... essentially they are not bad and not at all evil ..."
                “The humility of their women exceeds all human nature ...”
                “... they can in no way be persuaded to slavery or submission in their own country. They are numerous, hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food. They relate to foreigners arriving to them affectionately and, showing them signs of their location (upon their transition) from one place to another, guard them if necessary ... ”
                “They are not held captive in their captivity, like other tribes, for an unlimited time, but, limiting (the duration of slavery) to a certain time, they are offered a choice: whether they want to return home for a certain ransom or stay there (where they are) in the position of free and friends ”
                “They are a mighty people with great scope and great courage. "They don’t know defeat, and none of them turns their backs on the enemy ..."

                All these are the eastern Slavs of pre-Christian times. repeat
                1. Olgovich 31 March 2020 14: 21 New
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                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  “The humility of their women exceeds all human nature ...”

                  Funny you: lol ...
                  The modesty of their women exceeds all human nature, so most of them consider the death of their husband to be their death and voluntarily suffocate themselves, not counting being widowed for life.
                  What is this nya? belay lol
                  Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                  All these are the eastern Slavs of pre-Christian times.

                  and that indicates the FACE of the RUSSIAN people, which determine a thousand years: nequidiscrimination, justice, spirituality, conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion?
                  You as horses in the market choose:
                  They numerous, hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food
                  belay negative
                  1. Sugar Honeyovich 31 March 2020 15: 40 New
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                    Quote: Olgovich
                    What is this nya?

                    Considering your "neither", and nothing more.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    and what does the FACE of the RUSSIAN people, which determine a thousand years, indicate: justice, justice, spirituality, conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion?

                    This is precisely what indicates: all these qualities took place over a thousand years, not thousands. Got it, no?
                    I repeat the question: why and where?
                    And I’ll add: all peoples have religions, by virtue of what exactly is the Russian “best people on Earth”? Is the reason all the same in religion or in the people?
                    1. Olgovich April 1 2020 06: 30 New
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                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      Considering your "neither", and nothing more.

                      This is YOUR I, where you bashfully cut off:
                      voluntarily suffocate themselves, not counting being widowed for life.

                      WHERE do the Russian people like that? belay
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

                      This is precisely what indicates: all these qualities took place over a thousand years, not thousands.

                      By the criteria that you indicated:
                      They are numerous hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food
                      - choose SCOT in the market.

                      And I’m about the SOUL, THE FACE of the people who determine the thousand years: ORTHODOXY, justice, justice, spirituality, conscience, sincerity, kindness, compassion
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      And I’ll add: all peoples have religions, by virtue of what exactly is the Russian “best people on Earth”? Is the reason all the same in religion or in the people?

                      For you to understand, look at the HUMAN EDUCATION process.

                      WHAT again unclear? belay
                    2. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 11: 52 New
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                      [quote = Olgovich] where you bashfully cut off [/ quot
                      Cited related to the topic. And you again nodded, trying to get away from the essence of the conversation. [Quote = Olgovich] By the criteria that you indicated:
                      They are numerous, hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food.
                      -SKOT in the bazaar. [/ quote]
                      And also warriors in a team-squad or workers in an artel for a difficult job. Or for you there is no difference between them and cattle? fool
                      Moreover, here you slyly (but not smartly) cut off: I gave a testimony of the Russian love for freedom and hospitality, and you switched to cattle ... am
                      [quote = Olgovich] And I about the SOUL, the FACE of the people who determine a thousand years [/ quote]
                      And I am the same. Only which determine thousands and years. Got it, no?
                      [quote = Olgovich] WHAT is again incomprehensible? [/ quote]
                      One: your obscene nonsense, which you yourself are not able to explain. fool negative
                      [quote = Olgovich] For you to understand, look at the HUMAN EDUCATION process. [/ quote]
                      So it’s not a matter of religion? Q.E.D.
                    3. Olgovich April 1 2020 12: 05 New
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                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      Brought related to the topic. And you again nodded, trying to get away from the essence of the conversation.

                      No brought FULLY your july who showed it ravings.
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      And also warriors in a team-squad or workers in an artel for a difficult job. Or for you there is no difference between them and cattle?
                      Moreover, here you slyly (but not smartly) cut off: I gave a testimony of the Russian love for freedom and hospitality, and you switched to cattle ...

                      where is ..freedom ": hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food belay lol
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      And I am the same.

                      well yes: hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food lol
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      One: your obscene nonsense, which you yourself are not able to explain.

                      Someone is not able to UNDERSTAND lol
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      So it’s not a matter of religion? Q.E.D.

                      In her. t.d.
                    4. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 16: 47 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      where is ..freedom "

                      Here: "they can in no way be persuaded to slavery or submission in their own country." As lawyers say: read the entire document. fool
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Someone is not able to UNDERSTAND

                      Who - I see. laughing
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In her

                      We return to the question to which you were afraid to answer: all peoples have religion, by virtue of what exactly is the Russian "best people on Earth"? wink
                    5. Olgovich April 1 2020 19: 45 New
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                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      Here: "they can in no way be persuaded to slavery or submission in their own country." As lawyers say: read the entire document.

                      Duc ...there is nothing to read! request:
                      hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food
                      sir-s yes
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      Who - I see.

                      Mirror, do not be fooled! yes
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      We return to the question that you were afraid to answer: all peoples have religions, by virtue of which what exactly is the Russian "best people on Earth"?

                      ONCE AGAIN: look at the HUMAN EDUCATION process: they educate him until they instill what is described above.

                      The Russians had the best teacher.
                    6. Sugar Honeyovich April 2 2020 11: 06 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      nothing to read

                      There is something. More precisely: I do not want it, right? Really, not smoke, but pinching eyes?
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      The Russians had the best teacher.

                      Yeah? And the others, he was not the best? laughing bully
                    7. Olgovich April 2 2020 11: 58 New
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                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      hardy, easily tolerate heat, cold, rain, nudity, lack of food

                      Bredyatina s!
                      Nothing to read ... request
                      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                      Yeah? And the others, he was not the best?

                      Didn’t he get it again?
                      You bore me .....
                      Teachers, they are ALWAYS and ALL different, though all ... teachers.
                    8. Sugar Honeyovich April 3 2020 16: 55 New
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                      Quote: Olgovich
                      You bore me ..

                      Like a loser by the board.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Teachers, they are ALWAYS and ALL different, though all ... teachers

                      One teacher also has different students. And the results, too. What does it depend on?
  • Sugar Honeyovich 31 March 2020 13: 24 New
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    Quote: Olgovich
    RUSSIAN PEOPLE are the best people on Earth: sincere, kind, courageous, intelligent, talented, conscientious and beautiful.

    Without any doubt! This explains why, in practice, the Russian people tried to build the most just society, which only the human mind — the communist one — could come up with. Without the influence of the Orthodox religion here, too, could not have done. hi
    1. Liam 31 March 2020 13: 30 New
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      It's a hit below the belt good
      1. Fat
        Fat 31 March 2020 18: 42 New
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        Quote: Liam
        It's a hit below the belt good

        Oh!
        The Communists decided to build the "Kingdom of God on earth" without the participation of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit ...
        Yes, "even during the lifetime of the current generation" (C)
        So yes, it was not without influence ...)
        What a blow? Is that head against the wall ...
    2. Olgovich 31 March 2020 14: 32 New
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      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      Without any doubt! This explains why, in practice, the Russian people tried to build the most just society, which only the human mind — the communist one — could come up with.

      This explains why he rejected this foreign utopian CHIMERA, imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, WITHOUT HIS consent, so disgusting to his freedom-loving and philanthropic essence.
      Bringing him losses, unprecedented in his history, and leading to Extinction since 1964, a terrible tragedy.!
      And this happened, of course, with the spiritual support of his native Orthodox Church, which endured along with him all the killings, persecutions and destruction that fell on their lot in terrible times.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich 31 March 2020 15: 34 New
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        [quote = Olgovich] he rejected this foreign utopian chimera [/ quote
        Is it rejected?
        That is the question.
        [quote = Olgovich] imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, WITHOUT HIS consent, so disgusting to his freedom-loving and philanthropic essence. [/ quote]
        And this is a fact: not imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, but realized by HIS compatriots in practice with HIS active support from HIS, long-standing aspirations that came from HIS freedom-loving and philanthropic essence.
        1. Olgovich April 1 2020 06: 18 New
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          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          Is it rejected?
          That is the question.

          In the window, take a look yes
          Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
          And this is a fact: not imposed on him by the power of foreign tourists, but realized by HIS compatriots in practice with HIM active support HIS long-standing aspirations that came from HIS freedom-loving and human-loving essence.

          Freedom is what you didn’t HAVE had elections, freedom of speech, conscience, marches, meetings, opinions, movements, parties, etc.

          Humanity, see. to the loss of people for your rule, NEVER there have been such in our history (I understand, I understand, ALL AROUND, but not yours lol )
          1. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 09: 06 New
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            Quote: Olgovich
            In the window, take a look

            He looked. No sign. However, there is indeed a red flag above the local department of the Communist Party. But it is hard to see from the window. In general, I prefer to communicate with people, rather than looking through the windows.
            Quote: Olgovich
            Freedom is what you didn’t HAVE had elections, freedom of speech, conscience, marches, meetings, opinions, movements, parties, etc.

            There were elections, there was freedom of speech, conscience, movement, opinion. There was only one party, but many parties, as is now known, are not at all an indicator of freedom. An analytical conclusion - in the USSR there was freedom. drinks
            1. Olgovich April 1 2020 09: 21 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

              He looked. No sign.

              So I about it, no kommszma yes
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Elections - were, freedom of speech, conscience, movement, opinion - was.

              Shame ....
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              An analytical conclusion - in the USSR there was freedom.

              there was, yes: Yehudam, hedgehog, frinovsky and other VKPB-destroy freedom
            2. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 12: 02 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              So I about it, no kommszma

              As well as his rejection.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Disgrace

              Your stupid nonsense and stupid slander - yes.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Yehudam, hedgehog, frinovsky and other VKPB

              The whole country consisted of Yehuds, hedgehogs, frinovskih and other VKPB ?! There were 200 million? !!! However, it carries you ... laughing fool
            3. Olgovich April 1 2020 12: 51 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              As well as his rejection.

              And again, see. through the window and find ... him lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Your stupid nonsense and stupid slander - yes.

              Facts, just FACTS, liar
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

              Whole country consisted of Yehuds, hedgehogs, frinovskys and other VKPB ?! There were 200 million? !!! However, it carries you ..

              whole country free individuals from Yehud, hedgehog, frinovskie and other VKPB
            4. Sugar Honeyovich April 1 2020 16: 55 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              And again, see. through the window and find ... him

              Rejection? You can’t find it yourself, suggest me? good
              Quote: Olgovich
              Facts, just FACTS, liar

              Not a single liar.
              Quote: Olgovich
              individuals from Yehud, hedgehog, frinovskie and other VKPB freely pushed around the country

              And what was the best people in the world doing at this time? The most daring and smart?
            5. Olgovich April 1 2020 19: 55 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Rejection? You can’t find it yourself, suggest me?

              WHERE .... communism? belay

              .... dumb .... request lol:
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Facts, just FACTS, liar

              Not a single liar.

              Repeat:
              1. communism is not and does not smell
              2. yours, no. sunk into oblivion
              3. freedoms with you, was not
              4. There is nothing and nowhere to eat, clothe, live
              5. etc.
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And what was the best people in the world doing at this time? The most daring and smart?

              SURVIVED in the wild, difficult conditions arranged by yours. And at the same time, EVERYTHING IS EQUAL, he loved, laughed, built and won, contrary to them.
            6. Sugar Honeyovich April 2 2020 11: 13 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              WHERE .... communism?

              And where is his rejection? Yours itch all the time: "The country never got rid of communism." Do they see him?
              Quote: Olgovich
              yours, no. sunk into oblivion

              Well, yes - your memory is put to Lenin and Stalin. And PR them wherever possible. And do you personally here on your site pound so cruelly all the time?

              Quote: Olgovich
              There is nothing and nowhere to eat, clothe, live

              Quote: Olgovich
              SURVIVED IN WILD, DIFFICULT CONDITIONS,

              Only these conditions, in his opinion, were better than before and after. What then are they? belay
            7. Olgovich April 2 2020 13: 08 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And where is his rejection?

              The fact that it is NOT ..

              Already 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, etc. years ago, they promised and ... zilch!
              All you dancers, I interfered! lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Well, yes - your memoirs to Lenin and Stalin set.

              lol laughing on the ... blind area, at the alms-entrances?
              As for, by the way, ich is an idea?
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              And do you personally here on your site pound so cruelly all the time?

              belay head off on the floor?
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Only these conditions, in his opinion, were better than before and after. What then are they?

              Extinction since 1964, universal alcoholization and abortion, coupons for shorts, etc. at the top of the "development" class!
              So self-expired pseudo-power has disappeared, with you completely sneezing
            8. Sugar Honeyovich April 2 2020 14: 34 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              That he is NOT

              However, there is demand. And demand can give birth .. and even grow good
              Quote: Olgovich
              on the ... blind area, at the alms-entrances?

              On the central streets, squares, etc.
              Quote: Olgovich
              icha is an ideal

              Translate into Russian.
              Quote: Olgovich
              head off on the floor?

              You better know. It seems to everyone about everything? laughing
              Quote: Olgovich

              Extinction - since 1964, universal alcoholization and abortion

              You're lying. But the main thing - in comparison, that quality of life wins. Are the rest worse?
            9. Olgovich April 3 2020 09: 50 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              But demand there is. And demand can give birth

              Demand for rubber women is lol
              they will give birth to you! lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              On the central streets, squares, etc.

              lol laughing
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Translate into Russian.

              not Russian?
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              You better know.

              Yes, I hear your knock yes
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              You're lying.

              ignoramus: http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0139/tema04.php
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              But the main thing - in comparison, that quality of life wins.

              STA ?!
              WHAT WITH WHAT?
              1991 with .... 1913?
              You are about coupons for shorts and a shortage of everything and everything (oh, coupons, you let out a cloud, yes!) laughing
            10. Sugar Honeyovich April 3 2020 17: 34 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              Demand for rubber women is
              they will give birth to you!

              Give a tooth?
              Quote: Olgovich
              not Russian?

              Your text is yes.
              Quote: Olgovich
              Yes, I hear your knock

              Yes Yes. "Russians are coming!" And - out the window! yes
              Quote: Olgovich
              http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/0139/tema04.php

              In Russia - as well as in the USA, Great Britain, France, Italy, West Germany? In your words: normal development path? Hard case. fool
              Quote: Olgovich
              WHAT WITH WHAT?

              Food, clothing, housing, health, safety. Briefly: total - with everything. Just a fact.
            11. Olgovich April 3 2020 20: 16 New
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              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Demand for rubber women Yes
              they to you and will give birth!

              Give a tooth?

              The Communists will cope with them "There are no peaks that ...." lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Your text is yes.

              You.
              So is the idea new? Near which container is plastic or cardboard? lol
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich

              In Russia - as well as in the USA, Great Britain, France, Italy, West Germany? In your words: normal development path? Hard case

              Not the same, but the FIRST began to die out. and just 50 years before, all of Europe was far behind Russia by birth.

              Western peoples-OLD peoples, the French at the beginning of the last century, almost died out, they went to sunset.
              And the Russian people are young, but you drove him accelerated into old age, not allowing to enjoy maturity ...
              Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
              Food, clothing, housing, healthcare, security. Briefly: total - with everything. Just a fact.

              who with whom?
            12. Sugar Honeyovich April 4 2020 08: 56 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              So is the idea new? Near which container is plastic or cardboard?

              Look for your there. Their place is there! And here: https://bloknot-krasnodar.ru/news/lenin-i-matros-poyavilis-v-tsentre-krasnodara-1182425
              Quote: Olgovich
              Western peoples - OLD peoples,

              Americans including? Very funny. And, for example, are the Chinese or Indians young people? Generally scream. Go on! laughing laughing