Military Review

Russian-Horde Empire

377
Given the above facts, it is obvious that the traditional version of the "Tatar-Mongol" invasion, the yoke and more broadly - the creation of the empire of Genghis Khan, is a myth. Moreover, this myth is very beneficial to Russia's geopolitical "partners" in both the West and the East. It allows you to sharply narrow historical, chronological and territorial space of Russian civilization and superethnos of Russians.


The time frame is usually limited to the first princes of the Rurik dynasty and the baptism of Russia (IX-X centuries). Although with the advent of the Ukraine-Rus theory of the state, when all the first centuries of the Russian state, led by the Rurikovich dynasty and all the first princes, were “Ukrainized,” Russian history was cut off right up to the formation of the “Old Russian people”, the creation of Vladimir-Moscow Russia. At the same time, the Russians were even deprived of the Slavic community - they are now descendants of the “Ugro-Finns, Turks, Mongols with an insignificant admixture of Slavic blood." And the "Ukrainians" were declared the "true" heirs of ancient Kievan Rus.

The territorial framework of the settlement of the superethnos Russes is limited to the Podniprovya region, the Pripyat marshes. From there, the Russians allegedly settled in the rest of the land, displacing and assimilating the Finno-Ugrians, Balts and Turks. That is, everything is in the framework of the myth of the "prison of nations", where the Russians allegedly conquered and oppressed the neighboring tribes from ancient times.

Thus, the superethnos of the Rus was deprived of many thousands of years of history, coming from Great Scythia and the legendary Hyperborea. And the territory of the settlement of the Rus — from Europe in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the borders of Iran, India and China in the south — was reduced to Kievan Rus.

It is clear that some researchers have seen the weak points of the official version of the "Tatar-Mongol" invasion. Trying to restore the true story, they went several ways. The first attempt to give a different explanation of the events of the thirteenth century is the so-called. "Eurasianism" G. Vernadsky, L. Gumilyov and others. The historians of this trend retain the traditional factual basis of the “Mongolian” invasion, but carry out a complete ideological revision, where the minuses become pluses.

That is, the "Eurasians" did not question the origin of the "Mongols". But, in their opinion, the “Tatar-Mongols” were generally friendly to Russia and were in an idyllic “symbiosis” as part of the Golden Horde. There are generally sound facts about the positive influence of the government of Genghis Khan and the first rulers behind him on the vast Asian expanses. In particular, merchants could easily travel great distances without fear of robbers, they were destroyed; a well-organized postal service was created. Northeastern Russia, with the support of Batu, held out in the fight against the western “dogs-knights”. Later, Moscow became the new center of the “Eurasian Empire”, continuing the common cause.

The Eurasian version is useful because it dealt a strong blow to the “armor” of the classic history written by the Germans and Westerners for Russia. She showed the deception of the stereotype about the eternal hostility of the “forest” and “steppe”, the incompatibility of the Slavic world with the cultures of the steppe Eurasia. The Westernizers attributed the Slavic world to Europe. They say that the Slavs fell under the Horde yoke, and their history was subjected to harmful “distortions” by the “steppe”. Like the "totalitarianism and tyranny" of the Mongol rulers. Moscow inherited the "Asian" traditions and attitudes of the Horde, instead of returning to the "European family."

The version of the Tatar-Mongol Yoke, which was proposed by the authors of the theory of radical revision of history, the so-called “New chronology” - A.T. Fomenko, G.V. Nosovsky and other authors. It must be said that the authors of the “new chronology” used the earlier ideas of the Russian scientist N. A. Morozov. "Fomenkovtsy" revised the traditional chronology in the direction of its reduction, and believe that there is a system of historical counterparts, when some events are repeated in another time and another region. "New chronology" put a lot of noise in the historical and near-historical world. Created a whole world of "new chronology." In turn, the subversors wrote a whole bunch of exposing works.

According to Fomenko and Nosovsky, there was a single Russian-Horde empire (Nosovsky G. V., Fomenko A. T. New Chronology of Russia; Nosovsky G. V., Fomenko A. T. Russia and Orda. The Great Empire of the Middle Ages):

“The Tatar-Mongol yoke” was simply a period of military control in the Russian state. No foreigners conquered Russia. The supreme ruler was the commander - khan-tsar, and in the cities there were civil governors - princes who collected tribute for the maintenance of troops.

- The ancient Russian state was a single Eurasian empire, which included a standing army - the Horde, consisting of professional soldiers, and a civilian unit that did not have a standing army. The notorious tribute (the Horde way out), familiar to us from the traditional exposition of history, was simply a state tax inside Russia for the maintenance of the regular army — the Horde. The famous "tribute to blood" - every tenth person taken to the Horde - is the state military set. It seems like conscription, but for life. Later, recruits were also taken away - for life. The so-called "Tatar raids-rati" were ordinary punitive expeditions, raids in those Russian regions where the local administration, the princes did not want to obey the royal will. No wonder Alexander Nevsky so tightly established control of the Horde in the Novgorod-Pskov land. For him, the unity of power was an obvious necessity in the conditions of invasion from the West. The Russian regular troops punished the rebels, as they would later do in other periods of history.

“The Tatar-Mongol invasion” is the internal war of the Russians, the Cossacks and the Tatars within the framework of one single empire. The Golden Horde and Russia were part of the great power "Great Tartary", which was predominantly populated by Russians. Big Russia (“Tartary”) was split into two fronts, into two rival dynasties — the western and the eastern, and the eastern Russian Horde, and those were the “Tatar-Mongols” who took and stormed the cities of Vladimir-Suzdal, Kiev and Galician Russia. This event and went down in history as the "invasion of the nasty," "Tatar yoke."

- The Russian-Horde empire existed from the XIV century to the beginning of the XVII century, and its era ended in great turmoil. As a result of the turmoil, which was initiated in Rome by a part of the Russian “elite”, the pro-Western Romanov dynasty came to power. She carried out a “purge” of sources, caused a split of the church with the emasculation of Orthodoxy, when religion became a formality and one of the instruments of control of the people. Russia under the Romanovs (except for certain periods when patriots were the head of Russia) took the course of “restoring” unity with the West. However, this course contradicted the “Russian matrix” - the cultural code of the Russian super-ethnos. As a result, the lack of unity of the “elite” with the people led to a new confusion - the 1917 disaster of the year.

Romanov, in order to retain and retain power, as well as conduct a pro-Western course, needed a new story, ideologically justifying their power. From the point of view of the former Russian history, the new dynasty was illegal, therefore it was necessary to radically change the coverage of the preceding Russian history. This is what the Germans do. They “wrote” a new history of Russia, removing facts that contradicted the new order and cutting off Russian history in the interests of the West and the new authorities. Professionals worked, without changing the facts on the merits, they were able to distort the entire Russian history beyond recognition. The history of Russia-Horde with its estate of farmers and military estate (horde) was declared the era of "foreign conquest", "Tatar-Mongol yoke." At the same time, the Russian army (horde) turned into mythical newcomers from a distant unknown country.

The same version is followed by the famous writer Vasily Golovachev: “Here we have been told all my life: the Tatar-Mongol yoke, the Tatar-Mongol yoke, implying that Russia was in a slave of many centuries of slavery. What nonsense! There was no Mongol-Tatar yoke! The yoke in general from Old Slavic - "rule"! The words "army" and "warrior" are not originally Russian, they are Church Slavonic and put into use in the seventeenth century instead of the words "horde" and "Horde". Before violent baptism, Rus was not pagan, but Vedic, or rather, Vedic, it lived according to the traditions of Vesta, not religion, but the oldest system of universal knowledge. Russia was a great empire, and we were imposed by the views of German historians about the supposedly slave past of Russia, about the slave souls of its people ... A conspiracy against true Russian history has existed and is still in effect.and we are talking about the vile distortion of the history of our fatherland in favor of those who are interested in concealing the secrets of ascension to the throne of the Romanov dynasty, and most importantly - in demeaning the Russian family, supposedly a kind of slaves who moaned under the unbearable burden of the three hundred year old Tatar-Mongol yoke who did not culture. ... The great Russian-Ordian empire, ruled by a Cossack chieftain - daddy - hence, by the way, the name-nickname - Baty - spread out on the territory more than the former USSR. Is this not a reason for the Pharisees, who lived in America and Europe, to imagine that everything was the opposite, that they did not occupy a dominant position, but the Slavs? ”

The “new chronology” of Fomenko and Nosovsky raises many questions and, apparently, is erroneous. But the main thing is that the Fomenkovists in their writings published a large number of traces of the presence of Russian-Russians in Europe and throughout Eurasia. Although according to the "classic" version of history, the Eastern Slavs (Russians) climbed out of the swamps and forests only somewhere in the period of the 5th-6th centuries. (others give an even later date), their statehood was created by “Viking-Swedes”, and the Russians allegedly have nothing to do with the “true story” that went on in Europe and Asia.

True, having found numerous traces of Russians in Europe and Asia, where they should not be officially, Fomenko and Nosovsky made a strange conclusion: the Russians, together with the Cossacks and Turks during the reign of Ivan III, conquered Europe and ruled it for a long time. Europe was part of the Russian Empire. Then, gradually, the Russians were ousted from Europe, and their traces were tried to be destroyed, so that there was no doubt about the greatness of European civilization.

Here you can agree with the last conclusion: the Vatican, the later Masonic orders and lodges really did everything to destroy the traces of the Slavs, Russ in Europe, and also write the “history” of Russia-Russia in their own interests. But this could not be done completely, because the Russians were not short-term invaders of Europe, as it seems to the supporters of the “new chronology”. There was no conquest of Europe The Russ were the autochthonous (indigenous) population of Europe, since they lived in Europe from ancient times. Our ancestors - Veneds, Venets, veins, vandals, ravens, crows, rugi-rarogi, pelasgi, raseny, etc., have lived in Europe since ancient times.

This confirms most of the toponymy in Europe (the name of rivers, lakes, localities, mountains, cities, settlements, etc.). Since ancient times, the Ruses have inhabited the expanses of the Balkans, including Greece-Goretsii and Crete-Skryteni, modern-day Poland, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Denmark, Northern France, Northern Italy, and Scandinavia. The process of their physical destruction, assimilation, Christianization, and ousting from Europe began approximately in the middle of 1 th. er It was the Slavic-Russian tribes who crushed the completely late rotten Rome (the “German” tribes that are counted among the Germans do not have anything to do with them, for example, the “Germans” - the vandals are the Slavs-Wends). But the flag of the "Roman contagion" was picked up by the already Western Christian Rome and the Romean (Byzantine) empire, a protracted war began, which lasted a thousand years (and continues to the present, since the "Russian question" has not yet been resolved). Slavicorians were destroyed, turned into “Germans-dumb”, who were thrown at brothers, who had not yet forgotten their language and clan, were pressed to the east. A significant part of them was destroyed or assimilated, turning into “Germans”, incorporated into the composition of the new Roman and German-Scandinavian nations. So, the whole Slavic civilization in the center of Europe - Western (Varyazhskaya) Russia was destroyed. You can read about this in L. Prozorov’s work “Varyazhskaya Rus: Slavic Atlantis” or the work of Yu. D. Petukhov “The Normans. Russ North.

The virus of Catholicism was instilled in other Slavanorussians, the Slavs were subjugated to the Western matrix, making enemies of their brothers. In particular, in this way, the Polish Poles turned into stubborn enemies of Russia. Now, according to the same scheme, the southern and western parts of the Rus' superethnos are transformed into “ukrov-orcs”. In Belarus, Russians make “Litvinov”. In Russia itself, Russians are turned into an ethnographic mass, the biomaterial is “Russians”.

Thus, the positivity of the “new chronology” is that it shows the absence of “Mongols from Mongolia” in the expanses of Russia. Proves the fact that the true history of Russia is largely circumcised, distorted in favor of the owners of the West.

Supporters of the idea that Russian civilization and the superethnos of the Rus, have always existed, often creating great (world powers), moreover within the borders of Northern Eurasia. Since ancient times, Eurasia was inhabited by our ancestors, the Ruses whom the sources know by different names - Hyperborea, Aryans, Scythians, Tauroskifs, Sarmatians, Roxolans-Rossolans, Varangians-Weeds, Dews-Rushes, “Moguls” (“Mighty”), etc.

So, in the work of N. I. Vasilyeva, Yu. D. Petukhov “Russian Scythia” it is noted that on the territory of Northern Eurasia — from the Pacific Ocean and the borders of China to the Carpathians and the Black Sea — anthropological, cultural (spiritual and material culture), often political unity can be traced from the times of the Neolithic to the Bronze Age (the time of the Proto-Indo-Europeans, Aryans) to the Middle Ages.

There are facts that indicate that our direct ancestors lived on the territory of modern Russia-Russia since the very emergence of a modern type of man - the Cro-Magnon-European. So, a group of scientists from Russia and Germany, after many years of research, came to the conclusion that it was the Russian land that was the cradle of European civilization. The results of the latest research have shown that a modern-day Caucasian type of man was born by the 50-40-th millennium BC. and originally lived exclusively within the Russian Plain, and only then settled in the whole of Europe.

As reported by the British Air Force Radio Company, scientists made such conclusions by examining the human skeleton found in 1954, near Voronezh, in the ancient burial ground of Markin Gora (Kostenki XIV). It turned out that the genetic code of this person, who was buried about 28 thousands of years ago, corresponds to the genetic code of modern Europeans. To date, the Kostenki complex near Voronezh has been recognized by the world's archaeologists as the most ancient human habitat of the modern type, European. Thus, the modern territory of Russia was the cradle of European civilization.

According to Yu. D. Petukhov, the author of a number of fundamental studies on the history of the Rus (“The History of the Rus”, “The Antiquities of the Rus”, “The Paths of the Gods”, etc.), vast forest-steppe spaces from the Northern Black Sea region through the Southern Urals and to Southern Siberia, modern Mongolia, which Western historians were given to the "Mongol-Tatars" in the XII-XIV centuries. actually belonged to the so-called. "Skifosibirskomu world." The Europoids mastered huge spaces from the Carpathians to the Pacific before the wave of Aryan-Indo-Europeans left during the 2 millennium BC. er to Iran and India. The memory of tall, fair-haired and light-eyed warriors has been preserved both in China and in neighboring regions. The military elite, nobles of Transbaikalia, Khakassia and Mongolia were Europoids-Indo-Europeans. It is from here that the legend of Rusoborod and the blue-eyed (green-eyed) Genghis Khan-Temuchin, the European appearance of Batu, etc., originated. It was these heirs of the great northern civilization - Scythia, that were the only real military force that could subdue China, Central Asia (which previously in the sphere of their influence), the Caucasus, Russia and other regions. Later, they were dissolved among the Mongoloids and the Turks, giving a passionate impulse to the Turks, but they retained their memory as if they were fair-haired and light-eyed “giants” (for physically less developed Mongoloids, they were giant warriors like the Russians of Kiev, Chernihiv and Novgorod for the Arab travelers).

The relatively rapid assimilation (within the framework of the historical process, only a few centuries) of the Horde ruses should not be surprising. Thus, the Northern Caucasians repeatedly captured China (in the Celestial Empire they don’t like to remember this), but they all dissolved into the mass of Mongoloids, their subjects. Also, after the 1917 disaster, thousands and tens of thousands of Russians ended up in China. Where are they? They would have to be a prominent part of modern Chinese society. However, they were assimilated. Already in the second, third generation, all became "Chinese." Lost not only racial, but also language, cultural, differences. Only in India were the descendants of the Aryan-Indo-Europeans (our own brothers) able to preserve their appearance, cultural traditions (the Old Russian language - Sanskrit) in the great mass of the “black” population, thanks to a tough caste system. Therefore, the modern Kshatriya warrior castes and Brahmin priests are very different from the rest of the Indian population.

The Horde did not adhere to the principles of caste division, so the Horde in China and other areas that the Mongoloids mastered, dissolved, transferring some of their attributes and passionate charge to the Mongoloids and Turks.

A part of these Scythians-Rus came to Russia. Anthropologically and genetically, these late Scythians were the same Ruses as the Russians, living in Ryazan, Novgorod, Vladimir or Kiev. Outwardly, they were distinguished by the manner of dressing - “the Scythosiberian animal style,” their own dialect of the Russian language, and the fact that they were largely pagans. Therefore, the chroniclers and called them "nasty", ie, pagans. That is the key to the phenomenon that the three-century “Mongolian” yoke did not make the slightest anthropological changes in the indigenous population of Russia. Therefore, the Scythian Russes of the Horde (the word "horde" is a distorted Russian word "clan", "glad", in the German language is preserved as "order, ordnung") quickly found a common language with the majority of Russian princes, were related, framed. It is doubtful that in the same way Rusichs would begin to build relationships with absolute strangers-Mongoloids.

Russian-Horde Empire

Cities of the Scythians and their neighbors that existed before the new era (according to Koltsov I.E.). 1 - Dnieper Scythians; 2 - neuro; 3 - agafirces; 4 - androphages; 5 - melanchle; 6 - gelons; 7 - Boudin; 8 - Sarmatians; 9 - brands; 10 - Tissage; 11 - Iirki; 12 - breakaway Scythians; 13 - Argippea; 14 - Issedon; 15 - Arimasp; 16 - hyperborea; 17 - the ancestors of the Kalmyks; 18 - Massagets; 19 - royal Scythians; 20 - Yenisei Scythians; 21 - Indigir Scythians; 22 - Transcaucasian Scythians; 23 - Volga-Don Scythians.

Scythian swastika-solstice

This version immediately puts in place many pieces of the mosaic that do not find a place for themselves in the traditional version. Siberian Scythians-Rus had many thousands of developed spiritual and material culture, production base, military traditions (similar to the later Cossacks) and could form an army capable of crushing China and reach the Adriatic Sea. The invasion of the Scythian-Siberian pagan russes sucked into its mighty wave of pagan-turkish, pagan-polovtsy and alan. Later, the Siberian Rus created the Great “Mongolian” empire, which began to degenerate and degrade only after the growing Islamization, which was facilitated by the influx of a significant number of Arabs into the Golden (White) Horde. Islamization has become the main prerequisite for the death of a mighty empire. It collapsed into many fragments, among which Moscow Russia began to rise, which would restore the empire. After the battle on Kulikovo field, Moscow gradually comes to the fore, as the capital of the new Russian empire. In about a century and a half, the new center will be able to restore the main core of the empire.

Thus, in the 16th-19th centuries, the Russian state did not conquer foreign lands, but returned territories that had been part of northern civilization since ancient times.

Therefore, it is not surprising that in the 16th-17th centuries, and sometimes until the 18th century, most of Eurasia in Europe was called Great Scythia (Sarmatia) or Great Tartary-Tataria. The sources of that time identified the ancient Scythians-Sarmatians and the contemporary Russian Slavs, considering that the whole forest-steppe Eurasia, as before, was inhabited by one people. So not only authors who used literary sources, but also travelers believed. The 15th-century Roman humanist Julius Lat made a trip to Scythia, visited Poland, on the Dnieper, at the mouth of the Don, and described the life and customs of the Scythians. The traveler spoke about the "Scythian" honey and Braga, how the "Scythians" sitting at the oak tables, proclaim toasts in honor of the guests, wrote down a few words (turned out to be Slavic). He said that "Scythia" extends to the borders of India, where the "Khan of the Asian Scythians" rules.

Al-Omari, an Arabic (Egyptian) historian of the mid-XIV century, reporting on “the lands of Siberia and Chulymanskiy” reports a strong problem that beautiful, remarkably folded people, distinguished by their whiteness and blue eyes, live there. In China, under the rule of the Yuan dynasty (1260-1360-s) in the capital, the guard, recruited from Yases, Alans and Russians, was of great importance. Some of the names of “Alanian” commanders are also known - Nikolay, Ilie-Bagatur, Yuvashi, Arselan, Kurdji (George), Dmitry. The Slavic pagan name was worn by the renowned commander "The Eyed" Bayan. In 1330, the emperor Wen-tszun (Kubilai's great-grandson) created a Russian unit in 10 of thousands of warriors - in translation from Chinese to Russian, its name sounds like “Always true Russian Guard”. Given the fact that by the middle of the 14 century, the former united “Mongolian” empire had collapsed, it is hard to imagine that thousands of Russian soldiers came from China from Vladimir and Moscow Russia. Most likely, they were from closer places. Thus, Chinese Wang Hoi and Yu Tan-Jia, who lived in the XIV century, wrote: “Russians are descendants of the ancient Usun people”. And the Usuns are Siberian Scythians, who were called Issedons in ancient Europe (they occupied the territories of the Southern Urals and Siberia).

Prior to outside intervention, the Russian historical tradition directly elevated the origin of the Russian people to the Alans-Sarmatians. The author of the “Scythian history” A. Lyzlov identified the Sarmats-Savromats with the Russians. In the History of V.N. Tatishchev and M. Lomonosov, it is reported that the Russians are descended from the Sarmatians-Roksalans (Eastern Rus), on the one hand, and from the Vends-Wends (Western Slavonic Russians) on the other.

Thus, it is clear that almost the whole history of Western Europe is a myth. The winners, that is, the masters of the West, simply ordered the story for themselves, tried to clean up or hide unnecessary pages. But we do not need their myth, you can not build your power on other people's tales. We need our own, Russian history, which will help preserve our civilization and the Russian race.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Russia Eternal

Russia Eternal
"Where did the Rus come from?"
The purpose of the project "Ukraine". “Russians will tear themselves with their own claws, and we will grow and strengthen”
West vs Russia: Creating the “Ukrainian Ethnic Chimera”
The myth of the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion
"The myth of the" Mongols from Mongolia in Russia "is the most ambitious and monstrous provocation of the Vatican and the West as a whole against Russia"
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  1. RuslanD36
    RuslanD36 22 March 2016 06: 55
    +5
    First: very crumpled.
    Second: official science history hides everything from us! (sarcasm)
    Third: O descendant of the great Rus, I am so sorry that your ancestors are being resettled ... But to hell honestly, in your family there are only purebred Rus! And most importantly, the placement of 3 villages certainly cancels the victory over the Swedes, Napoleon and Hitler.

    Personally, I am proud of the multinationality and blood mix. And of course to me, living now, it’s interesting, but not fundamentally, where we are from. By the way, the British suffer so much for their origin ... But France generally has a country named after the Germans and nothing.
    1. Sensatus
      Sensatus 22 March 2016 07: 12
      +21
      Subsequently, the Siberian Rus created the Great "Mongolian" empire,

      Something the author left in one heap and tangled the coast. He offers us to rewrite the history of Russia, how did they rewrite it in Ukraine, starting with the great ukrov?
      Russia, of course, is a great country with a rich history and culture. And a great nation lives in it. But why bring this greatness to the point of absurdity? Ukrainians have already finished. They made themselves a laughing stock. Why do we need this?
      1. Sensatus
        Sensatus 22 March 2016 07: 31
        +11
        I ran through one more article by the author. There he argues that in Syria, too, the Russians originally lived, and that now, fighting in Syria, we are returning our original lands.
        Then I decided not to study the legacy of the great historian Alexander Samsonov.
        1. Mr. Hipster
          Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 27
          +1
          Quote: Sensatus
          Then I decided not to study the legacy of the great historian Alexander Samsonov.

          You decided correctly hi
        2. ver_
          ver_ 22 March 2016 11: 42
          -7
          ... in any case, Constantinople = Constantinople - now Istanbul - was founded by Dmitry Donskoy = Constantine the Great ..
          1. Mr. Hipster
            Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 12: 04
            0
            Quote: ver_
            Constantinople = Constantinople - now Istanbul - founded by Dmitry Donskoy = Constantine the Great

            belay belay belay
            Will there be proof ?! Analysis of the "relics" of the bone-Dima-Tsargrad in order to determine their age, for example fellow
          2. Uncle VasyaSayapin
            Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 21: 42
            +4
            Gosh, he’s Goga, he’s also Zhora, is he Georgiy Ivanovich living here?
        3. xtur
          xtur 22 March 2016 14: 38
          +3
          when articles of such a scope are being written, it is necessary to back them up with a mass of evidence for the primary sources, without them these thoughts turn into a kind of science fiction.

          The theory is beautiful, it may turn out to be true, maybe not. Without reinforcement from the source, it is difficult to judge anything.

          The genes of the Mongols are in large numbers, about 30% are recorded in Lezghins, although the influence of the Mongolian genes on the Armenians is zero, as is the influence of the Turkish or Arab genes, which are more in Europe than in Armenia. And in China there are areas where the population has 10% of the Armenian genes - but this does not mean the conquest of this area of ​​China by Armenia.
          The purity of the genetic and anthropological line does not prove the absence of the Mongols, it proves the exceptionally healthy nature of the Russian people and their heredity
          1. Cap.Morgan
            Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 22: 56
            +1
            This just indicates the conquest of China by the Armenians.
            10%! genes preserved. This is in China then.
            1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
              Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 21: 46
              +1
              Kuban cognacs and Armenian Cossacks! (KVN) lol
          2. Seal
            Seal 26 March 2016 19: 41
            +1
            Genes of the Mongols in large numbers, approximately 30% are recorded in Lezghins
            So the Kalmyks live nearby. And Kalmyks are Mongoloids.

            although Armenians have zero-level influence of Mongolian genes - like the influence of Turkish or Arab genes

            Well, the habitat of Armenians is far from Kalmyks than the habitat of Lezghins.
            And the level of Turkish genes in Armenians is decent - 9,9%. Only the Greeks have a higher level of Turkish genes - 11,1%. Even in Iran, the level of Turkish genes is lower than in Armenia and Greece - only 8,5%.
        4. Avantageur
          Avantageur 22 March 2016 16: 41
          -3
          Good article, informative. There are still about a dozen of them ... And it will be possible to release a small reader already. And there you look, and in the school program, you can implement it. And then, these Shapoklyakovskys do not know what they are doing, they will lead schoolchildren to degradation with their scribbles ...


        5. Vladislav 73
          Vladislav 73 22 March 2016 21: 51
          +5
          Quote: Sensatus
          Then I decided not to study the legacy of the great historian Alexander Samsonov.

          The article reminded me of the work of the "historical" science fiction writer Yuri Nikitin, who decided to exploit the ancient Russian theme. In his books he deduces almost the entire human race from the ancient Slavs, and even cites various names as evidence, such as Palestine was formerly inhabited by the Pre-Slavs, and It was called the Scorched Camp! Well, something like that. So the Ukrainians are not the first in this business! Again copied from the damned!
      2. killganoff
        killganoff 22 March 2016 07: 56
        -10%
        Dear, before denying everything, take an interest in the scientific works of Comrade Fomenko and Nosovsky, the first by the way professor and academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
        If you don't like a lot of letters, then watch the cycle of scientific films "History: Science or Fiction"
        1. nils
          nils 22 March 2016 08: 17
          +18
          Quote: killganoff
          History: Science or Fiction


          Excerpt from the Nikon Chronicle of the 15th - 16th centuries:
          "That winter they came from eastern countries in the forest to Ryazan land godless Tatars with Tsar Batu ".

          From the story "About the ruin of Ryazan" XIII - XIV centuries. (an outstanding literary monument of ancient Russia):
          Eupatius cried out in his grief his soul and disintegrated in his heart.
          And I gathered a few squads - a thousand seven hundred people whom God kept (kept), being outside the city. And drove to the trail of the godless king and barely stole (caught up) him in the lands of Suzdalstey. And suddenly attacking Batyev’s camps and beginning the battle without mercy. And confused all the regiments Tatar, Tatar the same stasha are drunk or violent. Eupatius tako them byashe mercilessly, as if the swords were dulled, and he (took) the Tatar swords and slashed them. Tatarove is thinking, as if the vostasha is dead. Eupatius the strong regiments of the Tatar passing by, byashe them mercilessly and riding through the Tatar regiments bravely and courageously, as if the tsar himself would get excited ... "

          From the "Laurentian Chronicle" compiled at the end of the fourteenth centuries:
          "... the Tatars went and took Suzdal and the Church of the Holy Mother of God, plundered both the princely court and the monastery of St. Dmitry, burned down, and plundered the rest of the monasteries; monks and old nuns, priests, blind and lame, hunchbacked, sick and all (old) people they killed, and the young monks and nuns, priests, priest, deacons and their wives, daughters and their sons, they all were taken to their camps.
          We went to the attack of Vladimir on February 7 in memory of the holy martyr Theodore Stratilates. And there was a great lamentation in the city ... And they took the city before dinner. The Tatars forcefully opened the church doors and saw that those who had locked themselves in the church had died of fire, and those who had not died were finished off and in all monasteries the icons were stripped or chopped off and books were ripped off ... and from the young to the old man to the infant, they killed everyone, killing some, leading others to their camps barefoot and naked, dying of frost. "

          From the Ipatiev Chronicle of the 14th Century:
          So Batu ravaged the city of Vladimir, captured the cities of Suzdal and came to the city of Kozelsk. And the wicked learned that the people in the city have a strong spirit, and you cannot take cities with deceitful words. The Kozelyans consulted and decided not to surrender to Batu,
          saying: “Although our prince is young, we will put life for him, and here we will take the glory of this world, and there heavenly crowns from God receive"....
          The Kozelyans, on knives, cut themselves with them and decided to go on Tatar shelves, and went out of the city and chopped up their battering guns, attacked their shelves, killed four thousand among the Tatars and were themselves killed. Batu took the city and did not spare anyone, from adolescents to nursing infants, but it is unknown about Prince Vasily, others said that he drowned in blood because he was very small. "

          Scythians - Russ, relatives say? And then Samsonov himself, probably, an autochthonous Caucasian?
          1. Sweles
            Sweles 22 March 2016 08: 33
            +1
            Quote: nils
            The Kozelyans, on knives, cut themselves with them and decided to go to the Tatar shelves, and left the city and


            You know the expression, "do not wash, so by rolling"? what is it about ? This is about TAX COLLECTION - "DO NOT PAY TAX, you will get acquainted with the PUNISHER". Morals at that time were severe you will not pay the ORDE you will be punished ...
          2. Vadim42
            Vadim42 22 March 2016 09: 07
            +13
            I will say one thing, the Ukrainians and I are one people, but let modern Ukraine write a chronicle about the invasion of the filthy ones so her hair will stand on end. And it’s time to understand our history a long time ago, but only on a state level and on a large scale.
            1. Oldwiser
              Oldwiser 22 March 2016 10: 43
              +6
              Quote: Vadim42
              And it’s time to understand our history a long time ago, but only on a state level and on a large scale

              Under Ivan the Terrible, Ivan Viskovaty was entrusted with such work, but when the oprichnina began, the results were considered unsatisfactory - and Viskovaty was shortened by the head.
              Under the Romanovs, the history of Russia was written by the Germans (single exceptions - Tatishchev, Lomonosov, Karamzin, Klyuchevsky and Soloviev - do not count) proceeding from a social order - to prove "the eternal backwardness of the primordially slave Russian people."
              Under Stalin, emphasis was placed on the imperial ideas of "statehood" - and therefore the reigns of the same Ivan IV and Peter I were glorified.
              I don't even want to talk about the liberal nightmare of perestroika ("the monstrous crimes of the Stalinist regime").
              And you, dear "Vadim42", propose "to sort it out on a large scale - at the state level."
              And what ideology will now lie "in the foundations of history"?
              1. Mr. Hipster
                Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 34
                -5
                Quote: OldWiser
                Under the Romanovs, Germans wrote the history of Russia

                The Romanovs adopted a country in which at that time there was no science and education in general (even Petya himself went to study abroad) - who else would have written our history if we ourselves didn’t know then - yes, Petya didn’t even have maps of his state, as an example! fellow
                Quote: OldWiser
                proceeding from the social order - to prove "the eternal backwardness of the primordially slave Russian people."

                There was no such order, you are completely out of your mind - why did the Emperors of the Russian State prove the backwardness of their state, were they crazy?
                Here, on the contrary, lengthened as they could - Right up to Rurik they dug up and lengthened, although from the point of view of law this extension is partly controversial.
                1. ver_
                  ver_ 22 March 2016 11: 39
                  -2
                  ... which did not prevent Peter from destroying the library of John 4 (the Terrible) and "cleaning up" the monastery books, and ordering the history of Russia to be written by the Germans ..
                  1. Mr. Hipster
                    Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 12: 13
                    -4
                    Quote: ver_
                    what did not stop Peter from destroying the library of John 4

                    This legendary library disappeared along with Ivan himself, who only supposedly owned it - its existence is just a hypothesis.
                    Yes, and the bulk of the books that were in it were previously repeatedly rewritten and translated into different languages, and you can even read them today fellow
                2. Sweles
                  Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 17
                  0
                  Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                  The Romanovs adopted a country in which at that time there was no science and education in general (even Petya himself went to study abroad) - who else had to write our story,


                  this is the commonplace and deceitful point of view, the rulers of the Horde Empire were not illiterate dumbasses, otherwise they could not have created such a huge state. Ryabtsev made a professional cartographer together with A.T. Fomenko, such a calculation, set out to determine whether modern large cities lie in circles and, if so, what is the CENTER for these circles? The problem was solved positively, and the center was not Rome, not Istanbul and not Athens, but the center of the city OWNING THE WORLD i.e. VLADIMIR ...
                  http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/wselennaj/post283072059/
                  therefore, in order to calculate this in reality, you had to have a very DEVELOPED SCIENCE, well, and you are an ordinary paid liar on the content of TI ...
                  1. Mr. Hipster
                    Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 12: 46
                    -2
                    Quote: Sveles
                    Ryabtsev made a professional cartographer along with A.T. Fomenko, such a calculation, set out to determine whether modern large cities lie in circles and, if so, what is the CENTER for these circles?

                    This center can be anywhere - especially if you use a curved circle and a curved map and when calculating, forget about "a couple of hundred" cities on the map, and choose only the most suitable laughing
                    1. Sweles
                      Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 57
                      -9
                      Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                      This center can be anywhere - especially if you use a curved circle and a curved map and when counting, forget about "a couple of hundred" cities on the map, and choose only the most suitable


                      in math you had a solid C, why are you so illiterate? the probability of hitting cities in circles is vanishingly small - this can be understood if you know what mathematics is ...
                      1. Sweles
                        Sweles 22 March 2016 13: 31
                        -3
                        Quote: Sveles
                        the likelihood of cities getting around circles is vanishingly small


                        chance of accidental contact ...
                      2. Mr. Hipster
                        Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 13: 37
                        +2
                        Quote: Sveles
                        in math you had a solid C, why are you so illiterate? the probability of hitting cities in circles is vanishingly small

                        That's right, that if you had at least a solid three in "mathematics", then you would know that if from Vladimir to Ankara in a straight line 1800 km, and to Berlin 1700, and to Belgrade 1900 - then these cities actually do not lie on a circle, but next to it
                        And in general, given that almost all ancient cities in Europe and Asia Minor are located a maximum of a couple of hundred kilometers from each other, and the Russians are thousands of kilometers away from them due to the significantly different population density, then drawing a "circle" from Russian cities is guaranteed you will get to some European city with a probability of plus or minus one or two hundred kilometers laughing
                        It first.
                        And secondly, where are the other cities? Why are there no cities to the south and east of Vladimir on the "circle"? there is lower population density and because of the greater distance between cities, it is more difficult to get into them with a "circle" ?! wassat
                      3. Sweles
                        Sweles 22 March 2016 13: 59
                        -9
                        Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                        That's right, that if you had at least a solid three in "mathematics", then you would know that if from Vladimir to Ankara along a straight line 1800 km, and to Berlin 1700, and to Belgrade 1900 - then these cities are actually lie not on a circle, but next to it
                        And in general, given that almost all the ancient cities in Europe and


                        you again didn’t understand the near one, only ONE CITY IN THE WORLD-VLADIMIR can give such a schedule, it is impossible to build such a city for any other city, because the differences are already obtained in THOUSAND KILOMETERS ...


                        http://secrethistory.su/257-vokrug-kakoy-geograficheskoy-tochki-vystroilis-po-ok
                        ruzhnostyam-evropeyskie-stolicy.html
                      4. Pomeranian
                        Pomeranian 22 March 2016 14: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Sveles
                        ONE CITY IN THE WORLD- VLADIMIR

                        Not so long ago in the park to them. 850 years of Vladimir celebrated the millennium of Vladimir. Which is on Klyazma. Ankara is known from the 7 century BC, Berlin from the 1200 BC .. A steep circle looms, puff .. Puff ... Puff ...
                      5. co-creator
                        co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 19
                        +6
                        Quote: Pomoryanin
                        Quote: Sveles
                        ONE CITY IN THE WORLD- VLADIMIR

                        Not so long ago in the park to them. 850 years of Vladimir celebrated the millennium of Vladimir. Which is on Klyazma. Ankara is known from the 7 century BC, Berlin from the 1200 BC .. A steep circle looms, puff .. Puff ... Puff ...

                        Here Kazan recently celebrated 1000 years, but many Tatars were against saying that we found a coin there and the city was 1.500 years old .. These are the pies .. puff, puff, puff ..
                      6. ver_
                        ver_ 24 March 2016 05: 12
                        0
                        ..Kazan was founded in the 15th century .. Ulyanov-Lenin "christened" Bulgaria into Tataria in 1920 .. and this idiocy became the reason for the formation of a new nation - the Tatars, although from antiquity the Tartar, the Cossack is a horse warrior .. How easily concepts and new nations are formed .. "Hurray ... and they threw their caps into the air .." and the whole science of history at this moment is Shekherizada's tales and a club in the hands of the rulers ..
                      7. co-creator
                        co-creator 26 March 2016 22: 56
                        +2
                        Quote: ver_
                        .Kazan was founded in the 15th century .. Ulyanov-Lenin "christened" Bulgaria into Tataria in 1920 .. and this idiocy became the reason for the formation of a new nation - the Tatars, although from antiquity the Tatar, the Cossack is a horse warrior .. How easily concepts are changed and formed new nations ..

                        Moreover, the Tatars in their language and Seichas have the Bulgari self-name, it is like the Finnish Suomi.

                        Quote: ver_
                        Hurray .. and they threw their caps into the air .. "and the whole science of history at this moment is Sheherizade's tales and a club in the hands of the rulers.

                        I totally agree.
                3. Mr. Hipster
                  Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 14: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: Sveles
                  such a schedule can be given only by ONE CITY IN THE WORLD- VLADIMIR, for any other city it is impossible to build

                  No fairy tales! laughing
                  From Tunisia to Paris - 1480 km, to Prague - 1500 km, to Izmir - 1500 km, to Bucharest - 1550 km and so on and so on - TUNISIA CENTER FOR PEACE !!! laughing
              2. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 22 March 2016 14: 10
                +5
                Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                And secondly - where are the other cities?

                I am more interested in such a question, what do they accept and how: intravenously or by inhalation ??
              3. Mr. Hipster
                Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 14: 35
                0
                Quote: Pomoryanin
                Not so long ago in the park to them. 850 years of Vladimir celebrated the millennium of Vladimir. Which is on Klyazma. Ankara has been known since the 7th century BC, Berlin since 1200 AD.

                So I also wanted to write this at first, but then I remembered - that the "chronolozhts" have their own chronology - for sure, while I am writing this comment, Sveles already writes that these dates do not correspond to reality hi ))))
              4. kinolog2322
                kinolog2322 23 March 2016 11: 48
                +2
                Orally
          3. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 08: 08
            0
            So where are the cities to the North and East from the center of the circle ???
      3. drilled
        drilled 22 March 2016 13: 30
        +4
        You know, there was such a down in the 90s, by the name of Muldashev. He also wrote a bunch of books. He proved his theories about Atlantes and Tibet, measuring distances on the globe with a tailor meter and getting amazing coincidences. Toponymy is a deceiving thing.
        1. Mr. Hipster
          Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 14: 05
          +1
          Quote: Burieway
          He proved his theories about Atlantes and Tibet, measuring distances on the globe with a tailor meter and getting amazing coincidences.

          On this topic, there are even articles by one well-known mathematician (I do not remember the name) where he exposes such "calculations" - in short, if we take arbitrary values ​​and perform arbitrary calculations with them, then at the output we can randomly get the values ​​we need (for example, the number PI in pyramids), and more precisely, the values ​​that, when "rounded", will be almost equal to the values ​​we need - well, you understand (in the pyramids there is no accurate PI numbers) hi
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 22 March 2016 21: 05
          +2
          He now seems to be alive and well.
        3. Cap.Morgan
          Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 00
          +1
          Muldashev wrote a lot of different things.
          Not just a meter measure.
      4. Cat man null
        Cat man null 22 March 2016 19: 23
        +4
        Quote: Sveles
        Are not modern big cities lying in circles and if so, what CENTER do these circles have?

        Yes, they lie, they lie .. Stockholm, Warsaw, there’s still a little detail that on your (we’re on you, brother, then?) Map is forgotten for some reason - it’s so .. deviation from the General Line yes

        Quote: Sveles
        and the center turned out to be not Rome, not Istanbul and not Athens, but the center, the city OWNING THE WORLD i.e. VLADIMIR

        Duc naturally, brother .. it was necessary to immediately decide "from the opposite" - the compass rested on the Owner of the World, and well .. chopped circles draw circles .. how much time-strength-sweeping would be saved, count up? belay

        But seriously, if - here I look at you, brother Sveles, and only one thought comes to mind:

        Your energy, yes for peaceful purposes.. you could bring so much benefit ..

        And so - well, like Gridasov, God forgive me ... do you know Gridasov? There is such a clown here, he also carries something incomprehensible. And what a cunning one - everything seems to be correct words, but the meaning loses ...

        So you have it so at times, my pale-faced brother .. I feel sorry for you, but somehow I still don’t know how to help request
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 22 March 2016 19: 41
          -6
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Yes, they lie, they lie .. Stockholm, Warsaw, there’s still a little detail that on your (we’re on you, brother, then?) Map is forgotten for some reason - it’s so .. deviation from the General Line


          you are not my brother ...
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 22 March 2016 19: 45
            +3
            Quote: Sveles
            you are not my brother ...

            And that’s good, believe? laughing

            But I just have to look after you now .. for we are all responsible for the brothers .. thu! our smaller brothers.

            Amen yes
      5. PKK
        PKK 22 March 2016 20: 37
        +1
        The movement was on the rivers, it is necessary to indicate which river the city stands on, canals on the river and river routes.
        1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
          Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 22: 35
          +1
          But didn’t all the rivers flow from Vladimir to all cities? Weird!
      6. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 08: 06
        0
        Rave! If the cities are located in circles with a center in Vladimir, then they should be located evenly from all sides! That is, if from Vladimir to Bern, 2500 km, then we also take 2500 km to the East and North, and this is more than to Khanty-Mansiysk and Salekhard! And where is the same number of cities as in Europe ???
        The simplest logical reasoning does not stand Fomenkovsky nonsense! Where we have the remains of ancient aqueducts, amphitheaters, roads and pitchforks, of which there are thousands in Europe !!!
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 23 March 2016 09: 20
          -4
          Quote: AllXVahhaB
          Rave! If the cities are located in circles with a center in Vladimir, then they should be located evenly from all sides!


          personally, nobody owes you anything, want to find cities? - do it yourself ...
          Quote: AllXVahhaB
          The simplest logical reasoning does not stand Fomenkovsky nonsense! Where we have the remains of ancient aqueducts, amphitheaters, roads and pitchforks, of which there are thousands in Europe !!!
          Reply Quote Report Abuse


          you would have covered your mouth so much yelling, in the European part of Russia, making aqueducts, when ALL Russian cities are built on rivers, it’s stupid, there are roads, the same old Smolensk road went straight to Europe. As for the construction of amphitheaters, many were originally used as fortresses - citadels in cities and in general - for the most part - water reservoirs the same Roman Colosseum was already built in the 19th century, like ruins, but the real Colosseum is in Istanbul and so on ...
          1. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 14: 46
            +2
            Quote: Sveles
            the same Roman Colosseum was already built in the 19th century

            Why not in the 20th?
            What kind of education do you have? Well, purely so that you understand what you know about the classification of historical sources?
          2. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 14: 49
            0
            Quote: Sveles
            personally, nobody owes you anything, want to find cities? - do it yourself ...

            Why is that? Your theory - you prove it! Or do you want me to myself looking for confirmation of your stupid stuff?)))
          3. AllXVahhaB
            AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 14: 56
            +1
            Quote: Sveles
            do aqueducts when ALL Russian cities are built on rivers, stupid

            But show me at least one European city not built on a pond! And then. somehow it turns out stupidly - Rome on the Tiber, but there was also water supply and sewage. But Moscow is on the Moscow River, and the aqueduct was only built under Catherine II ... And why, ask? On the river))) Probably stupid, like the ancient Romans)))
          4. Uncle VasyaSayapin
            Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 22: 47
            +3
            The aqueducts and amphitheaters we had were made of wood, as wood is an environmentally friendly material. Unfortunately, they were burned by the Romanovs. And for the same reason, roads were built in winter from snow, and in summer from medical or in the absence of this ordinary mud! lol And remember what has not yet been forgotten: "Because of the forest, from behind the mountains, the man showed an ax, he didn’t just show the ax to ... he tied it" - this is the Colossus of Rhodes - was dismantled by Peter I during the construction of the fleet.
            In general, only roads remained and d ... We need to at least preserve them for posterity.
          5. Seal
            Seal 26 March 2016 19: 50
            0
            But show me at least one European city not built on a pond! And then. somehow it turns out stupidly - Rome on the Tiber, but there was also water supply and sewage. And here is Moscow on the Moscow River,

            Well, a body of water is different. You look at large European cities - they (well, those in which aqueducts) are usually built in downstream. And taking into account the size of the European population and its density, it will be necessary to recognize that there is already decently polluted water in these cities.
            And we essentially all Muscovy within the borders of Ivan III - it just the watershed of the Volga, Dnieper, Oka, Western Dvina. I.e headwaters. And the upper reaches are much cleaner than the lower ones. And our population density was incomparably lower.
            Plus in Russia, wells were widely used.
      7. Seal
        Seal 25 March 2016 20: 31
        +1
        antique aqueducts, amphitheaters, roads and pitchforks, of which there are thousands in Europe
        Are your pitchforks "antique" too? And in every afmitatre, aqueduct and road, presumably, in your opinion there is a bookmark laid by the builders, such as "This aqueduct begins to build the 15th brigade of ancient Roman slaves under the leadership of the master, who is also the tribune (prefect, consul, proconsul ... pick up to taste) Gambs and such an antique year "?
    2. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 22: 25
      +3
      Everything is clear - it was important for them that it was possible to fly to any capital in 3 hours by vimaan. lol
  2. co-creator
    co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 15
    +5
    Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
    The Romanovs adopted a country in which at that time there was no science and education in general

    How did they live without education then? Well, did they write decrees, annals, kept the house? Eccentric man. Yes, there was no science in the concept of Western countries, but no more. Not having science did not stop them from burning people for this science UNDERSTAND. Science does not develop because someone is smarter. but because there is competition. In Russia it was not there, since the neighbors were weaker and the people lived idle, it was very good at that time. better than in the west.
    Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
    Yes, Petya didn’t even have maps of his state, as an example!

    As I understand it, before Petit, people traveled from the principality to the principality, swam to the Yamal Peninsula, went for the Ural-stone stars laughing
    Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
    There was no such order, you are completely out of your mind - why did the Emperors of the Russian State prove the backwardness of their state, were they crazy?

    They were just smart unlike you, therefore, according to their version, only with the advent of Christianity (naturally thanks to the princes) did people get off the Christmas trees and become people. Therefore, only the church and princes are the light, but when they quarreled, the Basurmans came and turned everyone into slavery. Then again the princes saved everyone. But the Ruriks were wild and therefore Russia remained ignorant and only the Romanovs brought the people the science of science, and for this they had to legalize the slaves in slave status and control them, for again they would come to the Basurman.
  • Oldwiser
    Oldwiser 22 March 2016 10: 43
    -1
    Quote: Vadim42
    And it’s time to understand our history a long time ago, but only on a state level and on a large scale

    Under Ivan the Terrible, Ivan Viskovaty was entrusted with such work, but when the oprichnina began, the results were considered unsatisfactory - and Viskovaty was shortened by the head.
    Under the Romanovs, the history of Russia was written by the Germans (single exceptions - Tatishchev, Lomonosov, Karamzin, Klyuchevsky and Soloviev - do not count) proceeding from a social order - to prove "the eternal backwardness of the primordially slave Russian people."
    Under Stalin, emphasis was placed on the imperial ideas of "statehood" - and therefore the reigns of the same Ivan IV and Peter I were glorified.
    I don't even want to talk about the liberal nightmare of perestroika ("the monstrous crimes of the Stalinist regime").
    And you, dear "Vadim42", propose "to sort it out on a large scale - at the state level."
    And what ideology will now lie "in the foundations of history"?
  • Snow
    Snow 22 March 2016 09: 17
    +2
    I understand that this is the same Samsonov?
    http://loveread.ec/biography-author.php?author=Aleksandr-Samsonov
    His political reviews seem reasonable to me. But history is still the work of historians, not science fiction writers.
    1. Mr. Hipster
      Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 29
      0
      Quote: Snow
      His political reviews seem reasonable to me.

      What exactly is it - where does he write about how everything is good in North Korea and how everything is bad in the Russian Federation?
      Oh, come on, his "historical opuses" in this case are even more adequate to his "political reviews"! fellow
  • ver_
    ver_ 22 March 2016 11: 56
    -10%
    ..Khan Batuy = John Kalita = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich = Yaroslav the Wise, after the death of his elder brother George concentrated both powers in his hands - spiritual and military .., turned the fragmented cities and settlements into a single state with uniform laws and taxes .. It is interesting who burning desire to pay taxes to pay voluntarily .. Tatar = Khazarin = Cossack horse-drawn warrior, not nationality ..
    1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
      Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 22: 49
      +1
      Will we be in the Don, tell about this formula to local Cossacks. laughing
  • co-creator
    co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 01
    0
    Quote: nils
    Scythians - Russ, relatives say? And then Samsonov himself, probably, an autochthonous Caucasian?

    I do not know who these Samsons are, but you just confirmed that the Tatars are just warriors. Just re-read the text carefully and remember that the person who attacked him wrote it.
  • PKK
    PKK 22 March 2016 20: 31
    -1
    You write nonsense "Tatars came with Batu in Winter" How could they come if they did not know how to feed oats in winter. Oats are grown, harvested for the winter. 15 kg of oats for each horse every day. So you need agriculture, Tatar-Mongols are farmers? It was necessary to plow, sow seeds, harvest, thresh, barns, translate, there were no carts, the horse if there were then horses lifts 100 kg on average. How could you supply the Army, feed the driver, horses. Tell me, I'll listen. How far the army went. from supply bases?
    1. andj61
      andj61 22 March 2016 21: 04
      +1
      Quote: PKK
      You write nonsense "Tatars came with Batu in Winter" How could they come if they did not know how to feed oats in winter. Oats are grown, harvested for the winter. 15 kg of oats for each horse every day. So you need agriculture, Tatar-Mongols are farmers? It was necessary to plow, sow seeds, harvest, thresh, barns, translate, there were no carts, the horse if there were then horses lifts 100 kg on average. How could you supply the Army, feed the driver, horses. Tell me, I'll listen. How far the army went. from supply bases?

      Actually, he brought a text from the annals ...
      But there is no contradiction in this - Batu really came in the winter, and went into the steppe already in late spring. This is reported by many sources. Then we traveled along the rivers in winter and summer, but on horses it is more convenient still in winter, after freezing.
      Regarding oats - is it not cool 15 kg per day? what
      a horse weighing 450-500 kg per day will need: oats - 5 kg; hay - 10-13 kg; bran - 1-1.5 kg; carrots - 2-3 kg. Source: Daily Horse Ration | Feeding © fourhoofs.ru

      Batu went on the raid, so along the route peculiar food shops were made, and on the territory of the enemy the army was already living off the enemy ... request
      And before that, he won a lot of people. For example, the Volga Bulgars (the territory of present Tatarstan). And he could take food from them - they were not nomads at all.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 23 March 2016 02: 50
        -2
        Quote: andj61
        Batu went on the raid, so along the route peculiar shops with food were made, and in the territory of the enemy the army lives already at the expense of the enemy.

        You write nonsense. The Mongols simply did not know that a horse could be fed oats, as proved by the Cossacks who first came to Baikal. They simply did not have agriculture. What stores you write about is incomprehensible.
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 23 March 2016 14: 57
          0
          Quotation: blooded man
          You write nonsense.

          Purely neighing: and the whole army, without loss, passed from the steppes of Mongolia to Ryazan without losing a single person? Or, after all, was it replenished by residents from the conquered countries familiar with the feeding of horse animals with grain? And say for all opponents of the Mongol-Tatar conquest of Russia: why do you consider Batu and Subedea to be complete idiots?
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 23 March 2016 21: 47
            0
            Quote: Pomoryanin
            Quotation: blooded man
            You write nonsense.

            Purely neighing: and the whole army, without loss, passed from the steppes of Mongolia to Ryazan without losing a single person? Or, after all, was it replenished by residents from the conquered countries familiar with the feeding of horse animals with grain? And say for all opponents of the Mongol-Tatar conquest of Russia: why do you consider Batu and Subedea to be complete idiots?

            Purely neighing. Why did they then forget that horses should be fed oats? Well, judging by your logic, their descendants laughing
            I believe that in history there is no exception and if it always has a repetition or analogue. Never have the steppe peoples organized themselves into any decent state, and even more so into an army of this magnitude. The maximum that they did was raiding. Crimean Tatars and Nogaits are a very good example.
            You like to consider Batu a Mongol for God's sake, just don’t have to think that everything around you is like an idio like you.
          2. Seal
            Seal 26 March 2016 19: 53
            0
            Purely to laugh
            That's what a horse theme brought to a person laughing
    2. Turkir
      Turkir 23 March 2016 14: 28
      +1
      In the cities they took were stocks of grain. Or they, stocks, surrendered meekly or the city was taken by an attack.
      Chivilikhin writes about this in the book "Memory". In Kozelsk, archaeologists have found heaps of burnt grain. It was possible to move faster along the frozen rivers, as on roads.
      1. Seal
        Seal 23 March 2016 23: 03
        +2
        We have such "historians" that everything that is not found "burnt" during the excavations is written off as "Mongol-Tatars".

        On icy rivers, as on roads, you could move faster.
        Have you ever flown a plane? Have you seen the rivers from above? Damn, but in Moscow alone the length of the river from MKAD in the west to MKAD in the east? 83 (eighty three) kilometers. b
        http://www.mosvodostok.com/objects/rivers/
        And the distance by land from the point where the Moscow River crosses the Moscow Ring Road in the West to the point where the Moscow River crosses the Moscow Ring Road in the east is exactly 34 kilometers (18,86 nautical miles).

        Is there a difference between 34 kilometers by land and 83 kilometers by water? And if you went astride the ice, then you won’t be able to cut. The banks of our rivers are either steep or swampy. It’s not everywhere that you will go ashore without problems. In addition, there are the highest snowdrifts near the shores, which grow due to the sweeping of the snow from the ship passage to the shores by the wind. Snowdrifts can reach one and a half meters or more. And you did not forget the growth of the Mongolian horse. Thirty meter at the withers. A snowdrift is one and a half meters.
  • AllXVahhaB
    AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 07: 57
    +4
    All these are narrative sources. In the best case, the author wrote the story through the prism of his perception, but overwhelmingly commissioned by those in power!
    History is Myth! And how it is happening we see now. The other day, one young Ukrainian wrote on the net that the Russians, despite the fact that they tied the Germans with corpses, did not really achieve anything, and only when the Americans landed in Normandy and drove the German to Berlin, WWII was over. And this is about the events of eyewitnesses who are still alive. So what about 500 years ago?
    If today Ukraine is preserved as a state and continues to exist, then in 50 years Ukrainian schoolchildren studying history will read about how the filthy hordes of Finno-Finns from the northeast, with the support of the Buryat tank armies, ravaged Lugansk and Donetsk! And how valiant terminators aka Evpatii-Kolovrats valiantly resisted them, destroying thousands of enemies. And having died heroically, they aroused respect and sacred horror from the enemies! Already now ukroSMI write about crying over the bodies of cyborgs Russian generals of the Airborne Forces, who sobbing said: "I would have a company of tavih warriors and I would have conquered the whole world!"
    And these will be canonical historical sources! So do not blindly trust the chronicles ...
    1. Sweles
      Sweles 23 March 2016 09: 22
      +1
      Quote: AllXVahhaB
      If today Ukraine will remain as a state and continue to exist, then in 50 years


      But what is Ukraine then? talking about TMI are you for or against such a story?
      1. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 14: 33
        +2
        Quote: Sveles
        talk about TMI

        And what is TMI? Theory of World History?)))
  • Seal
    Seal 23 March 2016 22: 43
    +1
    There is another interesting document.
    In 1906, on the eve of the celebration of the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty, the Approved Letter of 1613 on the election of Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov to the Moscow State was re-photographed and reprinted.
    How is it remarkable? And the fact that it was the most important state act, which was not lost (like all kinds of annals), was constantly guarded in the Tsar’s repository and was not available for editing. Still - who dares to edit something in the most important state document !!!
    And what made editing even more difficult was the fact that there were two copies of the Approved Certificate. And on both signatures are all members of the Council. Both copies were then stored together, then disconnected, then again fell together. At the time of publication in 1906, one copy was stored in the Archive of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the other in the Armory.
    But unfortunate for any on-duty clown-kotyar, in the Approved Charter of 1613 there is an introduction telling about the origin and formation of the Russian State.
    Yes, Batu is already mentioned in it. But in what context?
    And most importantly, there are neither Tatars nor Mongols. And just the Horde.
    So, here is the place we are interested in:
    “According to the great sovereign Vladimir Manamakh, I took the scepter of the Russian kingdom of kingdom, his son the great prince Yuri Vladimirovich Dolgoruky, and piety prosiya, and all the peasantry in peace and quiet.
    According to it, a congress at the Russian state in Volodimer, his son the prince the great Vsevolod Yuryevich, a champion of piety and a strong champion for the holy churches, and about the holy Orthodox peasant vrya.
    According to Vsevolod, the scepter of the Russian state contains the son of his prince the great Yaroslav Vsevolodich, he himself will observe God from Batu in Veliky Novograd and with his children and after capturing the godless Batu, the holy and immaculate peasant faith are distributed and renewed by the holy churches.
    According to him, the Great Russian State will be taken by the scepter, his son, the brave prince the great Alexander Yaroslavich, who, like Germans, show the glorious victory on the Neva, nor the godless king of the godless faith of the king, the beast of wrath in the horde of tame, and is glorified by God’s death for nothing. ”


    And what do we see?
    The first one. Our ancestors wrote in 1613: "..with the capture of the godless Batu", that is, they still remembered that the godless Batu was captured. It's a pity, it is not specified when and by whom. Although, purely theoretically, it may be that the author had in mind that "after the capture of the Russian land by Batu." But here is the strange thing. If after captivity of our land, moreover, at EASY Batu, then at the time of the atheist Bati, Prince Yaroslav “.. the holy and immaculate peasant faiths are spread out and the holy churches renew their packs ...”.
    Oh, something is not growing together.
    And by the way, the second. Our ancestors in 1613 recorded that Alexander Yaroslavich on the Neva won a glorious victory over the Germans (Germans) and not over the sveta (Swedes). Of which our ancestors in 1613 very clearly distinguished. But about the "more significant", as is now believed, the victory of Alexander Yaroslavich over the Germans on Lake Peipsi or near it, our ancestors did not mention. Didn't know about her ???
  • Sensatus
    Sensatus 22 March 2016 08: 50
    +12
    by the works of Comrade Fomenko and Nosovsky, the first, incidentally, is a professor and academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
    Lysenko was also an academician. He said that if the cow was fed with chocolate, then it would be milked not with milk, but with cocoa. Therefore, it is not necessary to operate on titles, but on scientific facts, logic and common sense.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 22
      +1
      Quote: Sensatus
      by the works of Comrade Fomenko and Nosovsky, the first, incidentally, is a professor and academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
      Lysenko was also an academician. He said that if the cow was fed with chocolate, then it would be milked not with milk, but with cocoa. Therefore, it is not necessary to operate on titles, but on scientific facts, logic and common sense.

      You're wrong . Fomenko, unlike Lysenko, is a very respected person in mathematical circles.
      By the way, by the way, everything is in order with him. First showed. that the modern history of the Mongols is nonsense, and then made money on it. That's all, beautiful.
      1. Oprychnik
        Oprychnik 22 March 2016 16: 19
        +1
        "Lysenko was also an academician. He said that if a cow is fed with chocolate, it will be milked not with milk, but with cocoa."
        "Fomenko, unlike Lysenko, is a very respected person in mathematical circles."

        Two more victims, zombified by neo-Trotskyist propaganda and spreading liberal noodles. It was they who spat on this respected person, whose work the Motherland appreciated. To expand your horizons, read on Kramol "Genetics in the USSR: Vavilov against Lysenko."
        1. Stanislas
          Stanislas 22 March 2016 16: 50
          +1
          Quote: Oprychnik
          read on Kramol "Genetics in the USSR: Vavilov against Lysenko."
          Or Ovchinnikov’s book “Academician Trofim Denisovich Lysenko” (2010).
      2. Turkir
        Turkir 23 March 2016 14: 37
        0
        Fomenko is a statistician. Mathematical methods are used in statistics. These methods are with "acceptable" distortions or imprecisions. You ate four cutlets, I didn't. Statistically, we ate two at a time. With regard to history, he uses incorrect initial data and does not know anything about the section of history - dendrology, which mathematicians and historians have repeatedly pointed out to him. For example, academician Yanin, unfortunately now deceased. I have a mathematical education and it is easier for me to understand such things than an ordinary reader.
    2. Stanislas
      Stanislas 22 March 2016 16: 28
      +4
      Quote: Sensatus
      Lysenko was also an academician. He said that if the cow was fed with chocolate, then it would be milked not with milk, but with cocoa.
      You yourself heard about cocoa from him? Lysenko, like other "Michurinists" under Stalin, defended an environmentally friendly approach to agriculture and pure products, and Khrushchev gave a move to their opponents "Weismanists", as a result of which they came to the chemicalization of agriculture, and now to GMOs. And a bucket of information slops was poured on Lysenko. Time has proved that Michurinists were right: products without genetic modification and nitrates in Europe are much more expensive, since they are fit for nutrition, and not just for profit. Let the geneticists train themselves on cats.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 22 March 2016 21: 08
        -2
        Khrushchev was always good to Lysenko.
        1. Oprychnik
          Oprychnik 22 March 2016 22: 22
          0
          Iosif Vissarionovich treated Lysenko well. He was awarded the Stalin Prize 8 (!) Times, Hero of Socialist Labor. The stinking goats were not scattered with this prize. Those who ineptly squandering the people's money because of self-indulgence or something worse were put in camps, like Vavilov. which they never had to reach. I will not talk about the "fifth" column. Whose hand is it, and so it is clear.
          1. Turkir
            Turkir 23 March 2016 14: 43
            0
            Stalin really treated Lysenko well, until a certain time.
            When all of him, Lysenko, "theories" gave nothing in a practical sense, then he faced the fate of the world-renowned scientist slandered by him, the first geneticist in the world, Vavilov. Lucky for him, Stalin died.
            Lysenko is a disgrace to Russian science, a stinking spot.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 22 March 2016 23: 07
        +2
        Quote: Stanislav
        Let genetics train themselves on cats.

        And on your profile picture just a cat with a Mauser. Think correctly of their geneticists.
      3. Uncle VasyaSayapin
        Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 March 2016 23: 00
        0
        Without agricultural chemistry, we would have hunger in our country, because Yields without chemistry are half as much. This will be confirmed to you by any person who is even a little bit versed in crop production.
    3. Seal
      Seal 24 March 2016 00: 48
      +2
      Lysenko was also an academician. He said that if the cow was fed with chocolate, then it would be milked not with milk, but with cocoa.

      What year did he speak? At what performance? Do you have a transcript of speeches delivered at that meeting?
      Ah, this is just an anecdote. laughing
      Well then, what is the weight of this your anecdotal argument? crying
  • Mr. Hipster
    Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 20
    +3
    Quote: killganoff
    by the works of Comrade Fomenko and Nosovsky, the first, incidentally, is a professor and academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

    ON HIGH MATH !!!! fellow
    You, when you are planning to do the operation, go to the doctor of technical sciences!
    And what - he is also a doctor, and even a doctor of technical sciences - it will be cooler than "some" candidate of historical laughing
    1. ver_
      ver_ 22 March 2016 11: 35
      +2
      ... History is not a science - these are tales written by order of crowned persons ..
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 24
      -3
      Quote: Mr. HIPster
      Quote: killganoff
      by the works of Comrade Fomenko and Nosovsky, the first, incidentally, is a professor and academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

      ON HIGH MATH !!!! fellow
      You, when you are planning to do the operation, go to the doctor of technical sciences!
      And what - he is also a doctor, and even a doctor of technical sciences - it will be cooler than "some" candidate of historical laughing

      I also don’t understand how Putin became president or how Lomonosov made discoveries in various fields of science, because Mr. HIRster writes that it’s just laughter.
  • AllXVahhaB
    AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 06: 08
    0
    The fact that he is an academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences does not say anything. Modern RAS - trash! What is the recent equating of Vlasovites with fighters for the independence of Russia? And the dissertation on this subject was defended at the RAS!
  • tomket
    tomket 26 March 2016 14: 01
    0
    Quote: killganoff
    the first, incidentally, is a professor and academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

    True, he is an academician in a different field of science. But what matters to trifles - ACADEMICIAN SAME! The fact that Fomenko has long been a laughing stock is all the more not taken into account)
  • Vend
    Vend 22 March 2016 09: 48
    +7
    Quote: Sensatus
    Subsequently, the Siberian Rus created the Great "Mongolian" empire,

    Something the author left in one heap and tangled the coast. He offers us to rewrite the history of Russia, how did they rewrite it in Ukraine, starting with the great ukrov?
    Russia, of course, is a great country with a rich history and culture. And a great nation lives in it. But why bring this greatness to the point of absurdity? Ukrainians have already finished. They made themselves a laughing stock. Why do we need this?

    Rewriting the story is not necessary. It is necessary to include and revise established dogmas, according to new archaeological and historical data. And a lot of these data were found.
  • Talgat
    Talgat 22 March 2016 17: 09
    +5
    Quote: Sensatus
    Russia is certainly a great country with a rich history and culture. And a great nation lives in it. But why bring this greatness to the point of absurdity?

    I completely agree - very well expressed!

    In fact, it’s enough that we all understand that all these centuries on the expanses of Eurasia the same people lived, the same people — and these were the peoples of the future Soviet Union — no Mongols came from Mongolia and did not leave.

    It’s just that at different times our ancestors and our great-grandfathers created different forms of the state and each time the great Eurasian empires were revived

    And in the last 2 times, the Russian people united the Slavs and the steppe - the former peoples of the Golden Horde - and created not the worst state - Tsarist Russia - and then the magnificent USSR. Even though Eurasia is now fragmented and the reverse integration has just begun, a new empire is still inevitable - just like the laws of nature. People want to live better - to live in safety. Don't be afraid of aggression. And not become "Africa"
  • PKK
    PKK 22 March 2016 20: 23
    0
    What is noticed. There were no Cossacks on R. Niva. And there was no construction of shuttles.
    The construction of fleets is not indicated on the Don, Dnieper, lower reaches. Cossacks until recently lived in war, hunting and fishing, traveled on canoes. Many cages were received from the Turks. And Cossacks transferred to horses, Catherine 2nd in the late 18th century. All logistics in and even now it was mainly rivers, and Cossacks are ancient pirates who walked along the seas. Roads were not built, but locks and their structure were built. Everyone knows about ancient wooden locks. You just need to correctly determine their importance.
  • venaya
    venaya 23 March 2016 08: 48
    +1
    Quote: Sensatus
    Russia, of course, is a great country with a rich history and culture. And a great nation lives in it. ... Then I decided not to study the legacy of the great historian Alexander Samsonov.

    Surprisingly an amazing article, it’s even a pity that the author intended to finish the line of this topic, especially given the popularity of the genuine interest in it. Of course, it is very difficult to describe this topic in such a short summary in more detail. For me personally, this article is very full and understandable, has been dealing with this topic for a long time, and I agree with the author with almost everything.
    If you Sensatus If anything here in the article is not clear, then try to ask the questions you are interested in in a more decent and specific form. And to blame the author for describing a topic unfamiliar to you, so forgive me, maybe this is not your topic at all and you are not at all interested in it. Everything that is described in the article is known from other sources that have confirmed research by specialists in various fields of science.
    1. Sweles
      Sweles 23 March 2016 09: 29
      -2
      Quote: venaya
      Surprisingly amazing article, it’s even a pity that the author intended to finish the line of this topic, especially


      surprisingly different, Samsonov writes, both for ours, and for yours and for and against, the meaning of such info-throws is simply to entertain people. Samsonov does not have a solid ideological base and does not search for truth, just like in a chicken coop he scatters grains for information, chicks, chicks, chickens. Most of his articles are just works on compiling information from the Internet, so you do not really admire it all, all at once. ..
      1. venaya
        venaya 23 March 2016 11: 36
        -1
        It is unacceptable to accuse Samsonov of incomplete information, because he works within the media at VO, where it is necessary to be extremely careful in everything. I consider it natural that both he and I know this topic much deeper, only here are some moments of this knowledge even scary to say aloud. So the main advantage of his articles lies precisely in the fact that he only approximately shows the entire inconsistency of such a subject as history being taught, which in its basis today more resembles a "science" closest to theology, where everything is taken for granted without any to that evidence. And the fact that he relies on the data of today's science, so this is only honor and praise for him. In the history taught today, there are still elements of psychology and even elements of frank psychiatry, in the style of the works of psychiatrist C. Lambroso with his works on influencing the mass consciousness, which is not taught now even in specialized medical universities. Everything is quite complicated here and such articles can be considered the limit for this contingent of readers and this Internet resource.
  • Sweles
    Sweles 22 March 2016 08: 19
    -6
    True, finding numerous traces of the Russian stay in Europe and Asia, where they should not officially be, Fomenko and Nosovsky made a strange conclusion: the Russians, together with the Cossacks and Turks during the reign of Ivan III, conquered Europe and ruled it for a long time

    If Alexander Samsonov has already taken up the tug, then ... why is it "strange" if the existence of a huge medieval empire is recognized even by TI? There is a lot of evidence that Europe was conquered by the Mongols-Horde, but if the Mongols are not Asians, the Oirats self-name means the Mongols are a different Russian people. This is what Fomenko-Nosovsky says in his writings.
    The new chronology of Fomenko and Nosovsky raises many questions and, apparently, is erroneous

    what is Samsonov "wrong" about?
    1. ver_
      ver_ 23 March 2016 20: 23
      +2
      ... not the Mongols, but the Mughals ..
  • Sweles
    Sweles 22 March 2016 09: 10
    -1
    Timur is a conqueror of Asia, a great conqueror, a good Asian.
    1. guzik007
      guzik007 22 March 2016 13: 27
      +10
      Timur is a conqueror of Asia, a great conqueror, a good Asian.
      -------------------------------------------------- ----------------
      Do not smack nonsense here. The real appearance of Timur has long been restored from the skull of Gerasimov before the war. And I suspect that you are well aware of this. so this is a clear fraud on your part.
      PySy. And the portraits of V.I. Lenin in the Chinese version -poured "china": =)
      1. Sweles
        Sweles 22 March 2016 13: 29
        -13%
        Quote: guzik007
        Do not smash crap here


        you don’t know how to read? stubborn?
      2. Cap.Morgan
        Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 06
        +1
        I wonder how Gerasimov determined the section of the eyes on the skull?
    2. drilled
      drilled 22 March 2016 13: 34
      +7
      ))))) And what is this portrait? Oil or watercolor?))) He painted? Somehow, the style of drawing does not fit in with engravings in Samarkand.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 26
        +3
        Quote: Burieway
        ))))) And what is this portrait? Oil or watercolor?))) He painted? Somehow, the style of drawing does not fit in with engravings in Samarkand.

        There are no such engravings of the time, THAT IS VERY STRANGE.
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. AllXVahhaB
      AllXVahhaB 23 March 2016 14: 58
      0
      Whose work is the portrait? Source to the studio!
  • ver_
    ver_ 22 March 2016 11: 25
    +1
    ... for some reason the scribblers confuse two completely different and incompatible "things" ..
    Mongolia - which was founded in 1920 - during the time of Baron Ungern and Sukhebaatar. There was a unification of the Khalk tribes - whose halo of habitation is the Khalk River - there the future Marshal Zhukov "brought up" the Japanese ..., and the Ayrov tribes ..
    By 1920, there can be no Mongols by definition ..
    Mogul = great ..
    Mogul, Ruthenia, Scythia, the Land of the Gaidariks, Tartaria ... - they called Russia ..
    The number of future "Mongols" in the 14th century was no more than 14 thousand people. (..With children, old men and old women and women ..) - a giant, of course, an army .. you can collect ... Take the population census over the past centuries and you will come to these numbers .. And all this idiocy was instilled in us at school - this is zombies .. as now in Ukraine - any absurdities "people" gobble up .. As "Dr. Goebels" said - the more monstrous the lie - the more willingly they believe in it. ...
    Horde = military order = army of Russia ..
    Khan = kan = king = emperor ...
    Khan's title "brought" to Russia Khan Ioann Rurik Varyag the Trojan after the fall of Troy ..
    1. kinolog2322
      kinolog2322 23 March 2016 11: 58
      +1
      Such a nationality as the Mongol-no. The most numerous are the Khalkh. I agree with you.
  • Spnsr
    Spnsr 22 March 2016 13: 45
    +1
    Quote: RuslanD36
    Personally, I am proud of the multinationality and blood mix.
    if we don’t talk about nationalities, especially since I voiced in comments of other articles of the same author, and take as a basis that on the planet earth there were tribes whose name came from a clan, place, city, it is rather simpler, and more logical to admit that the Rus is not an ethnic group, but the totality of these peoples, which went beyond the boundaries of a kind, place, city, and began to explore the world! those who knew him not from textbooks, which then simply wasn’t, but personally, visiting a particular tribe, somewhere leaving their own, previously known and adopting the skills and knowledge of the host tribe.
    somewhere it’s part of the Norman theory, where the Russians are rowers, but not as a fact of fulfilling some duties, namely as a person moving forward and studying the environment, somewhere as a theory of nomads, but not nomadic herders nomadic who roam within their range namely, those moving forward going beyond the limits of a kind and “crossing” all other kinds ....
    it could be assumed that these are those who are called Cossacks, but Cossacks are a military caste, and they are where they should be, but the knowledge of the world is inherent in every person, and it can be immigrants from all tribal tribes living according to next door, gone to explore the world ...
    they could unite many different tribes into a state
    1. Oprychnik
      Oprychnik 22 March 2016 20: 33
      +3
      Yes ... Of course, the question is interesting ...
      1. PKK
        PKK 22 March 2016 20: 47
        0
        Chapai Trotskyist. So it is not in vain that he is.
  • ava09
    ava09 7 December 2016 22: 50
    +1
    Quote: RuslanD36
    Personally, I am proud of the multinationality and blood mix

    By mixing blood, Clans, Peoples, states, cultures, civilizations, sexes, one can finally achieve one thing - the destruction of their Meanings. After all, when the differences are erased, everything turns into a single mass. I don’t understand where you found reasons for "personal pride"? I personally am not proud of such achievements of the ancestors, although I understand and do not condemn them ...
  • kalibr
    kalibr 22 March 2016 07: 11
    +3
    And why are the Slavs not the grandchildren of Mars at once? If you refer to science fiction writers like Golovachev, then why not refer to Alexander Kazantsev? He has a wonderful story "The Grandsons of Mars" and from it it is clear: these are earthlings! And since the first earthlings are Russians (from the legendary Hyperborea!), It is clear that they are ... descendants of the Martians! But not only that, Kazantsev developed this theme later in the novel "Faetes". That the Martians themselves, it turns out, are the descendants of the Phaetonians! I found confirmation by artifacts ... So what is there to waste time on trifles ... it is necessary to do it on a larger scale - WE ARE DESCENDANTS OF PHAETONS! Ukrainian historical science, and all other sciences at once in ... sucks! Who, then, is older than us ?!
    1. Aleksander
      Aleksander 22 March 2016 07: 37
      +7
      Quote: kalibr
      And why then immediately the Slavs are not the grandsons of Mars?


      So Venus is already taken! This is the ancestral home of the Protoucre — they used to stake it ....
    2. Mr. Hipster
      Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 35
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      But not only that, Kazantsev developed this theme later in the novel "Faetes".

      I read it, I thought about it first of all, starting reading your commentary - but here's the thing, according to this book, the "Phaetonians" founded the civilization of MesoAmerica - we are waiting for Alexander's articles on the topic "It's time to return the primordially Russian lands in America"! fellow
      By the way, he writes in the next article about the fact that the "Vatican" is starting the next crusade from North Korea (or something like that, did not get a grasp of nonsense).
      And where do most of the Catholics live with us? Right, in central and south america! wassat
    3. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 10
      -1
      Do you seriously consider life on Earth a unique phenomenon in the universe?
    4. Oprychnik
      Oprychnik 26 March 2016 21: 42
      0
      I agree with you, Vyacheslav! Iloizych is also not opposed.
  • semirek
    semirek 22 March 2016 07: 25
    +2
    The original version! The fact that history has always been redone to please a political moment by one ruler or another is obvious, but I think it’s not so.
  • madjik
    madjik 22 March 2016 07: 29
    +5
    What was it? laughing
  • kalibr
    kalibr 22 March 2016 07: 29
    +4
    "The Roman humanist of the XNUMXth century Julius Let made a journey ..." - following the author's logic, all "Roman humanists" were the pope's spies and perverters of our history - Rubruk, Carpini and others with them ... And this one, then, is beyond suspicion? So to speak, he turned out to be "more humanistic" than others. Interesting!
  • Darkness
    Darkness 22 March 2016 07: 30
    +1
    Fomenkoids. Aren't you tired of shaming the story yet?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 22 March 2016 07: 40
      +2
      "We need our own, Russian history, which will help preserve our civilization and the Russian race" - that's where the dog is buried! And also Russian biology, not Mendelian-Morgan genetics, Russian mathematics, and not the corrupt girl of American imperialism - cybernetics, and other "Russian" sciences. And as soon as everything is Russian - from toilet paper to history, so we will be happy! We tried this, by the way, both in the USSR and in Germany ... but something didn't work out! Someone missed the old rake?
      1. Mr. Hipster
        Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 42
        -5
        Quote: kalibr
        "We need our own, Russian history, which will help preserve our civilization and the Russian race" - that's where the dog is buried! And also Russian biology, not Mendelian-Morgan genetics, Russian mathematics, and not the corrupt girl of American imperialism - cybernetics, and other "Russian" sciences.

        And you know, I’m even getting a little scared - after all, all these people who defend "Russian history" also protect Dzhugashvili and North Korea and Gaddafi and other renegades - but we know perfectly well how these regimes melted with dissidents, as I drove above mentioned by Lysenko of the same "geneticists" - the corrupt girls of the imperialists.
        And how, in general, the sciences were divided according to "origin", both in the USSR and in fascist Germany.
        And you know, it’s not at all to jokes when you understand what’s going on in the head of all the "swelles" wassat
      2. co-creator
        co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 29
        +6
        Quote: kalibr
        "We need our own, Russian history, which will help preserve our civilization and the Russian race" - that's where the dog is buried!

        I personally need a story that is close to at least what was in reality. I refuse to accept modern nonsense.
    2. Seal
      Seal 22 March 2016 07: 48
      +1
      Aren't you tired of shaming the story yet?
      Firstly, history is already so disgraced that even Yu.D. Roosters cannot be dishonored.
      History is roughly a public girl with such a huge experience on the panel that another pervert, well, absolutely does not affect her reputation.

      And secondly, Yu.D. Petukhov is not at all a supporter of Finov. And FiNs, as far as I know, are far from delighted with his "works".
      According to Yu. D. Petukhov, the author of a number of fundamental studies on the history of Rus ("History of Rus", "Antiquities of Rus", "Roads of the Gods", etc.)

      That is how many times I have never picked up the "works" of this author in stores - after a cursory review, for some reason, any desire to read them always disappeared.
      Anyone familiar with their "writings"?
      1. Darkness
        Darkness 22 March 2016 07: 54
        +1
        I'd rather read Yulin or Zhukov, who is Klim.
      2. genisis
        genisis 22 March 2016 07: 57
        0
        History is not disgraced by Petukhov, but by such vile deceitful Nazis as you, slandering the blessed memory of the soldiers of the 89 Taman Rifle Division. And you need to take your hands to the very shoulders, so that even a theoretical ability to touch the keyboard with a substance like you was not.
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 22 March 2016 08: 28
          -4
          Quote: genisis
          how are you slandering the blessed memory of the fighters of the 89 Taman Rifle Division


          TAMAN do you know what? This ATAMAN -Kazatsk-Ataman region, and the KANTEMIRO division for example? CASTING village in the Voronezh region. --this is KAN - KHAN TEMIR - IRON KHAN, these toponyms are found in Russia ...
          1. genisis
            genisis 22 March 2016 08: 34
            0
            I apologize, this is a continuation of my dialogue yesterday with the vile Nazi substance under the nickname seal. This character cowardly doused the memory of the fighters of 89 Taman SD and slid his head in the sand. I had to finish it here.
            Once again, I apologize for being off topic.
            1. Seal
              Seal 22 March 2016 16: 31
              +1
              What, Mr. Nazi, being beaten by the facts there, you now brazenly climbed here?
              1. Seal
                Seal 22 March 2016 16: 32
                +2
                Here the Armenians write about their 89th rifle Taman division.
                http://janarmenian.ru/news/26544.html
                The 89th Armenian Taman three-time-bearing rifle division, the only one of all national formations, took part in the Sturm of Berlin and defeated a strong garrison, which had strengthened in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Hein. For this operation, the division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.

                However, having made some efforts, we find VERY INTERESTING MATERIAL!
                http://regnews.ru/politics/zhenshchiny-voyna-8-marta-583/
                “But the most“ feminine ”feat of the Great Patriotic War belongs, perhaps, to Stepanova-Serova, the translator of the intelligence department of the 52nd Guards Rizhskaya SD.
                May 2, 1945 it became known that the Berlin garrison capitulated. However, the battle continued on the site of the Riga division in the vicinity of the Humboldtain park. The group of Germans surrounded there occupied an advantageous and well-fortified position on the hill - “Humboldthein Heights”. There were mainly two types of people left in Humboldtain: ideological patriots who decided to die with the Reich, and SS men. And so they fought zealously, repulsing the attack after attack, which cost us time after time the lives and lives of soldiers ...
                And then the reconnaissance translator Stepanova decided on an almost suicidal step - she volunteered to speak with the surrounded Germans. Together with Lt. Col. Popov and radio operator Kalmykov, she drove right under heavy fire to the northern fortress of Humboldthein. And all three stood there, mortally risking, until on the tower they noticed their white, parliamentary flag.
                When, finally, they managed to get into the underground bunker - the headquarters of the fortress, the two generals listened without interest to the proposal and refused to stop the resistance. And at the same time they reported that they decided to shoot the parliamentarians.
                And here the translator Zina Stepanova accomplished her feat. She talked for almost an hour. About four years of the war, about millions of corpses, about destroyed cities and mutilated fates ...
                History has not preserved her exact words. And now, of course, it’s a pity that nobody wrote this speech, and we don’t know what words were saved by thousands, if not tens of thousands of human lives. Something she told them so that the Germans suddenly obeyed. They conferred quietly among themselves and declared that they accept the offer.
                On that day, about 52 German soldiers and officers surrendered to the 7000nd Riga Division. Who would have perished all and at least the same (and, most likely, 3-5 times more) of the Red Army soldiers were taken with them, if one Russian woman did not manage to convey to two years of war men such simple, but so difficult for them words: the war is over "

                The description of the hostilities of the 52nd Riga Division contains a HUGE MASS OF CONCRETE about taking this anti-aircraft tower.

                But in the description of the hostilities of the 89th (Armenian) division, there are no specific details at all. Only a standard set of phrases is given, such as "the 89th division defeated a strong garrison fortified in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Heine."

                Therefore, personally, like any other normal person who is familiar with logic, I trust much more concrete, teeming with the smallest details, evidence of veterans of the 52nd Riga Division, rather than Armenian stories absolutely not containing any specifics and examples.

                It turns out that the Armenian colonel general lied!
                Well, the Armenians are replicating this lie in thousands of their sites, from where it spreads to tens of thousands of non-Armenian sites.

                The feat was performed by the women of the 52nd Riga Division, and the glory of this feat was given to themselves by the Armenians of the 89th Division!
                1. Seal
                  Seal 22 March 2016 16: 42
                  0
                  How many times this Nazi Genisis dipped in his swamp of lies - it still stinks and stinks. Apparently he has such a job. Here, take at least the Shamkhor incident of 1918. History clearly indicates that the Shamkhor incident was not a natural occurrence. The Shamkhor operation was carried out by order of the Transcaucasian Commissariat, in which Armenians accounted for a quarter of the leadership. Moreover, the Armenians led the Transcaucasian Commissariat in an embrace with the Musavatists. The operation involved:
                  - Georgian armored train;
                  - Georgian national regiment, in which the Armenians also served;
                  - Musavatists, called "Musavat division".
                  As a result, all of our front-line soldiers received lyuley. The commander of the Georgian armored train was killed. The Georgian armored train itself is gouging (our front-line soldiers captured 20 guns from the front and carried them in echelons. And they learned to shoot accurately during the war).
                  And the Nazis of the Genisis type brazenly discarding from history information about the Order of the Transcaucasian Commissariat, about the Georgian armored train, about the Georgian national regiment, left some "Musavatists", two also announced that these "Musavatists" had defeated and disarmed our front-line soldiers. These are the substances they are, these Genises.
                  1. genisis
                    genisis 22 March 2016 16: 58
                    +1
                    Here is the award sheet of the Hero of the Soviet Union, Major General Kozin Nester Dmitrievich, commander of the 52 Guards SD
                    1. genisis
                      genisis 22 March 2016 17: 00
                      +1
                      In the award sheet, the assault on the HUMBOLTSHEIN park is not mentioned.

                      And just as brazenly you're lying in absolutely everything.
                      Get better at horses, clown
                      1. Seal
                        Seal 22 March 2016 18: 16
                        +1
                        Mr. Nazi approx. What did I say to you?
                        Did I tell you about personal award sheets?
                        Iditotooo !!!
                        I wrote to you in Russian that in the Decree on awarding the 89th Rifle Division with the Order of Kutuzov nothing was said about Humbolt Jaime. And there really is nothing said. For the Decree on the rewarding of an entire division is a state act verified in all respects. And not personal award sheets, which were composed in a multitude.

                        And you, write that
                        The 89th Armenian Taman three-time-bearing rifle division, the only one of all national formations, took part in the Sturm of Berlin and defeated a strong garrison, which had strengthened in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Hein. For this operation, the division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.


                        The 89th Armenian division of the anti-aircraft tower garrison did not smash. This is even seen from the award sheet on Safaryan.
                        Where it is written in Russian that the 89th division led by him is a German fortress in the Humbolt Jaime park skillfully bypassed.

                        I, unlike this rascal, before starting to write, shoveled a lot of combat reports of the 3rd Shock and the 38th Corps. If the unit is not mentioned in the combat report, this means that this military unit has no contact with the enemy. Well, in those days, there were no references to the 3th division in the fighting 89rd strike army.

                        And the corps itself mainly (except for the 52nd Riga) was in reserve, and the 89th division was in reserve. The combat reports mention the parts that are in contact with the enemy.
                      2. Seal
                        Seal 22 March 2016 18: 39
                        +1
                        Damn, but the number doesn’t mean anything? Award sheet dated May 3, 1945. And combat reports of combat work over the past day from units to higher headquarters arrive in the evening. The garrison of anti-aircraft complex No. III in Humboldthain (Flakpaare III Humboldthain) capitulated on May 3, 1945 at 12-00.
                        http://www.saper.etel.ru/fort/zenit-basni-berlin.html
                        A report on this to the higher headquarters would have arrived no earlier than 20-00 03.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX
                        By this time, the award sheet has already been signed.
                        And actually, and what could be included in the award list of Major General Kozin Nester Dmitrievich, commander of the 52 Guards SD? What did his scout persuade to surrender the garrison of anti-aircraft complex No. III in Humboldtayn without a fight? So this feat is the personal feat of a reconnaissance scout, not a division commander.
                        Unlike you, we do not confuse personal wool with state wool.
                      3. genisis
                        genisis 22 March 2016 19: 12
                        +1
                        Here is the award sheet of Stepanova Zinaida
                        And you can go to yug
                      4. Seal
                        Seal 23 March 2016 23: 12
                        0
                        What isn’t like that again? What, all the same, May 2, and not May 3? Well, this absolutely does not play any role.
                        I said that we do not confuse personal wool with the state. Even if when drawing up the award sheet for Major General N. Kozin Since the capture of the Flakpaare III Humboldthain garrison was already known, this episode could not enter the general's award sheet. Since it was a personal feat of the translator-reconnaissance Z.P. Stepanova.
                        Our generals, unlike you, do not steal other people's exploits and do not ascribe to themselves. Well, at least Major General N.D. Kozin did not steal and ascribe to himself someone else's. Moreover, he has his merits above the roof.

                        The main thing is that even now, I hope, you are convinced that the 89th division did not destroy the strong garrison, which was consolidated in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Heine. And that your division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree is not at all for this operation.
                        And the Humboldt-Heine garrison captured Z.P. STEPANOVA from the 52nd Guards Riga Division.
                        http://podvignaroda.mil.ru/?#id=42751408&tab=navDetailDocument

                        So if you still have at least some remnants of what normal people call "conscience", then remove from your sites false information that
                        The 89th Armenian Taman three-time-bearing rifle division, the only one of all national formations, took part in the Sturm of Berlin and defeated a strong garrison, fortified in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Heine. For this operation, the division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.
                        and return the well-deserved feat to the one who really did it - the Guards to Senior Lieutenant Stepanova (Serova) Zinaida Petrovna from the 52nd Guards Riga Rifle Division
                      5. genisis
                        genisis 24 March 2016 10: 12
                        +1
                        Here is an excerpt from the order to award the scout of the 9th battery 531 ap 89 sd for actions before the assault on the fortress in the park HUMBOLTSHAYN

                        But then you definitely know that 89sd did not take such actions, but was in reserve. And everyone who died these days as part of a division assaulting Berlin, they were not there either, because such a Nazi abomination, like you, said so.

                        The same order for the storming of the fortress in the HUMBOLHEIN park awarded several more people.
                        But the commander of the 26 artillery regiment of the 1945 rifle division, Major Matveev, who signed the order on May 531, 89, of course, knows much less than Sergei Petrovich aka Seal
                      6. genisis
                        genisis 24 March 2016 10: 37
                        0
                        Tell me, Sergey Petrovich - is it always so tight for you to reach?
                        Here is a prize list for Stepanova Zinaida Petrovna.
                        Where is it written, where did she go to negotiate with the Nazi command? Where did she bring the chief of police, a resident of the police and other fascist officers?
                        So far, in the award lists of a large number of soldiers of the 89 Taman Rifle Division, I come across the phrase "storming the fortress in the HUMBOLHINE park"
                        It turns out that you just p..dabol
                      7. Seal
                        Seal 26 March 2016 10: 04
                        +3
                        It turns out that you just p..dabol

                        This character looks at you each from the mirror.
                        So far, in the award lists of a large number of soldiers of the 89 Taman Rifle Division, I come across the phrase "storming the fortress in the HUMBOLHINE park"

                        And well, is this also my fault? Reward sheets, award sheets .... award sheets - these are essentially not even documents, but simply appeals to the higher management for the award. And for the fact that someone in the award list was attributed an extra punishment is not provided. At best, they will laugh at the higher headquarters - but they will miss. In the worst case, they simply cut off the rewarding of the one whose award sheet contains fantasies. And the one who signed the maximum award sheet will be scolded at a party meeting.
                        And there are documents for which information will have to be answered. This, for example:
                        - magazines of military operations;
                        - combat reports;
                        - Operational reports.
                        Therefore, if battle logs, combat reports, and operational reports do not confirm what is written on the award sheets, then this means that the linden is on the award sheets, and not the military journals, combat reports, and operational reports.
                        Moreover, in order to find the truth, you need to look not only at the battle logs, combat reports and operational reports of the unit itself (well, for example, your 89th division), but also at the higher unit (38 corps). As in the battle logs, combat reports and operational reports of the unit itself, there can also be, say, embellishments. But the task of the higher headquarters and the higher special department is including you to clarify, verify and double-check all this primary documentation.
                        The headquarters and special department of the 3rd Shock Army are doing the same with respect to military journals, combat reports, and operational reports of the 38th Corps.

                        Well, the fact that in many award lists of Armenians there is the phrase "storming the fortress in the HUMBOLHEIN park" - so for this you yourself know very well. Well, the Armenians of the 89th division could not leave, so to speak, the abandonment of the huge garrison to one woman-intelligence officer of the 52nd Riga division. hi
                        Moreover, here it is, a fortress, almost nearby, even visible with my eyes stop
                        And especially VICTORY !!!! Well, who will find fault there !!
                  2. genisis
                    genisis 24 March 2016 15: 11
                    0
                    Here you give a link
                    http://podvignaroda.mil.ru/?#id=42751408&tab=navDetailDocument
                    to order No. 31 / n dated 29/05/1945 issued by 12 State Military Command Committee, which Stepanova Zinaida Petrovna was awarded with, among other things.
                    I recommend that you carefully read each of the 319 pages of this order posted on the site is a feat of the people.
                    Then you - through and through the vile Nazi - make sure that you already know.
                    Not a single award sheet from this order refers to any actions in the HUMBOLTSHAYN park of units of 12 GVSK, including 52 SD.

                    At the same time, both ordinary soldiers and the commander of the 89 Taman Rifle Division were awarded for actions to storm the fortress in the HUMBOLHEIN park.

                    Your vile slander, in my opinion, draws to 128.1 p. 2 of the Criminal Code
                  3. Seal
                    Seal 24 March 2016 19: 46
                    0
                    No, he still will not calm down. Who else in the 52nd Riga Division should have rewards for giving up the garrison and all the Nazis gathered there, including the police leadership, if only Z.P. Stepanova persuaded them to surrender, accompanied by only two (or one - I don’t remember) a person.
                    All honestly. No one in the 52nd division began to ascribe to others the merits of others. The division is not Armenian.

                    At the same time, both ordinary soldiers and the commander of the 89 Taman Rifle Division were awarded for actions to storm the fortress in the HUMBOLHEIN park.

                    What the fuck ??? I already poked you with your nose in your (well, not personally in yours, but you pulled out as an argument) award sheet of Safaryan, commander of the 89th division, where it says in black on faded:
                    "As a result of a skillful flanking maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blocked. And its garrison was forced to surrender completely."

                    What else is unclear? Neither the commander of the 89th division, nor the 89th division itself, attributed any assault on the anti-aircraft tower Humbolt Heine. It is written in Russian - a skillful workaround.
                    That is, the 89th division was marching, stumbled upon the Humbolbt Heine anti-aircraft tower and skillfully outstripped her.

                    Why don’t you calm down in any way?
                    Well, I caught you lying - so have the conscience to admit it.
                    Although ... to whom I speak of conscience. Where did he get it from?
                    No, how well human qualities are sometimes reflected in anecdotes: "And we will put an Armenian at the goal as a goalkeeper ...."
                  4. Seal
                    Seal 24 March 2016 20: 53
                    0
                    Although, as follows from the intelligence reports of the 38th corps, they wrote about the skillful detour later, when the time for the awards came. And by the way, with what forces did the 89th division make a "skillful detour"? It turns out that the "skilful detour" was carried out by the forces of one rifle company of the 390th Rifle Division of the 39th Rifle Division.
                    So from the 38 cs opsvodka 01.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX we see that:
                    400 cn operated north of the fortress (the so-called Flakpaare III Humboldthain anti-aircraft tower) for the church in the Humbol Jaime park.
                    526 cn - he acted along the streets
                    390 cn acting in the second tier the forces of one rifle company began to bypass the fortress on the right, but unsuccessfully.

                    That's all the actions of the 89th Infantry Division on May 1, 1945. Losses of the division for 01.05.1945/13/75 - XNUMX people were killed, XNUMX wounded.
                    Where is what you call "the heroic assault on the Humboldt Jaime fortress"?
                    From the operational report of the 38th corps on 02.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX
                    "In connection with the surrender of the Berlin garrison, units of the 89th division ceased fire at 08-00."
                  5. Seal
                    Seal 24 March 2016 20: 59
                    0
                    Opersvodka 38 sk. 02.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX
                  6. Seal
                    Seal 24 March 2016 23: 29
                    0
                    Yes, nothing is inserted recourse I’m trying to insert the page of the 38 sk combat log for 02.05.45/XNUMX/XNUMX
                2. Seal
                  Seal 24 March 2016 21: 21
                  0
                  May 38 roundup
                3. Seal
                  Seal 24 March 2016 23: 32
                  0
                  Oh, sort of gone. And then the page from the magazine of military operations 38 sk for 01.05.45/XNUMX/XNUMX.
                  The Corps Combat Journal is a very serious document. It has already been cleansed by the efforts of all departments, including special departments, from all the husks that suffer from such documents of a lower level.
                  Here you can easily make sure that the regiments of the 89th Tamanskaya SD operate as follows, as I have already indicated above:
                  400 cn operated north of the fortress (the so-called Flakpaare III Humboldthain anti-aircraft tower) for the church in the Humbol Jaime park.
                  526 cn - he acted along the streets
                  390 cn acting in the second echelon by the forces of one rifle company began to bypass the fortress on the right, but unsuccessfully.
                  That's all, there are no more regiments in the 89th Tamanskaya SD regiment.

                  And everything that relates directly to the fortress and a description of its defensive capabilities - recorded in the action section of the 52th Guards SD.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
  • genisis
    genisis 22 March 2016 16: 56
    0
    Let the documents answer for me.
    And I'd rather you just fill your face.
    Award sheet of the commander of the 89th Infantry Division with the Order of Kutuzov, II degree, for the assault on the HUMBOLTSHAYN park.
    1. Seal
      Seal 22 March 2016 17: 25
      0
      Well, that's what I’m talking about. See all !!!
      They stole the victory from the women of the 52nd Riga Guards Rifle Division and brazenly appropriated it to themselves.
      And now this stolen victory, this Nazi does not hesitate to flaunt here.
      But even here, in the Prize sheet, it was not possible to hide the truth.
      Here, I ask everyone to make sure. Written in faded black.
      "As a result of a skillful flanking maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blockaded. And its garrison was forced to surrender completely."

      And what do we see from this text? And we see how well, simply by the ears, we tied the 89th Armenian division to the surrender of the garrison of the anti-aircraft complex No. III in Humboldthayn. Flakpaare III Humboldthain).
      But they pulled it in elegantly. To be, so to speak, "clean" and in front of the 52nd Guards Riga SD and in front of other troops who were close and knew how it was. If that - you can always get out, they say:
      But you, what, we do not encroach on the feat of women of the 52nd Guards of Riga. Did we say somewhere in the award sheet that this 89th division stormed and forced the capitulation of the Flakpaare III Humboldthain garrison? No ! We only point out that the 89th Armenian Division is skillfully bypassed The Flakpaare III Humboldthain Anti-aircraft Tower and thereby blocked it. Well, the garrison surrendered, of course, not to the 89th Armenian division, but to the 52nd Riga.

      Damn, well, arrogant !!!
      What does it mean - "blocked" the anti-aircraft tower, located in the park. Humboldt on May 3, 1945, when the Berlin garrison had already surrendered? Yes, the Germans themselves climbed into this anti-aircraft tower, barricaded themselves in it and were not going to break through anywhere. And where could you break through in Berlin on May 3, 1945? And in fact, this anti-aircraft tower itself did not pose any threat to our advancing troops.
      The personnel took refuge in the towers, barricaded the entrances, and attempted to fire attackers from anti-aircraft guns. However, for ground targets 128 mm. the guns could shoot no closer than 8 kilometers because of the inability to lower the trunks below 10 degrees, and the tower had no spotters of fire at the leading edge, which could give target designation. Small-caliber guns were quickly destroyed by the fire of Soviet artillery and tanks, against which small-caliber anti-aircraft guns were powerless.

      But of course it was necessary to force the garrison of this tower to capitulate. What did the translator of the 52nd Guards Riga Zina Stepanova. She talked for almost an hour. About four years of the war, about millions of corpses, about destroyed cities and mutilated fates ...
      History has not preserved her exact words. And now, of course, it’s a pity that nobody wrote this speech, and we don’t know what words were saved by thousands, if not tens of thousands of human lives. Something she told them so that the Germans suddenly obeyed. They conferred quietly among themselves and declared that they accept the offer.
      At 12 o'clock on May 3, 1945, the personnel of the third complex surrendered.

      That's how Armenians lie in everything.
      And you, Mr. Armenian Nazi with the nickname Genisis, are actually the most vile, false Nazi bastard. Yes, and absolutely dumb. Which, as they say, looks in the book, but sees - nevermind.
    2. Seal
      Seal 25 March 2016 21: 23
      0
      DOCUMENTS RESPOND !!!
      Let's go back to the Genisis award list of Major General Safaryan.
      On the one hand, as I already noted, in the award sheet of Major General Safaryan it is written correctly enough that they say
      "as a result of a skillful flanking maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blocked, and its garrison was forced to surrender completely"

      That is, there is no mention of any storming of the fortress in Humbolt Hain in the award list of Major General Safaryan.
      That is, it would seem that everything is clear to everyone and I can easily be satisfied that having put on display the award sheet of Major General Safaryan, genisis himself presented evidence of my innocence.
      But let's go further.
      And let's see how generally truthful is this paragraph from the award sheet of Major General Safaryan. We look at the Military Log of the 38th sk for 01.04.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX. We read:
      89 sd
      400 cn - north fortress, church in the Humbolt Heine park.
      That is, 400 cn operates north of the fortress.
      526 cn - the intersection of Bruner Strasse and Ramler Strasse.
      That is, 526 cn is not at all in the Humbolt Heine park.
      390 joint ventures - acting in the second echelon from the Hoh Strasse region with the same rifle company, began bypassing the fortress on the right, but passing the railway met an anti-tank moat, and behind it a system of trenches with fire weapons.
      That is, the 390 rifle regiment, being in the second echelon, sent one company past (bypassing) the fortress on the north side, but judging by the record that this company met an anti-tank moat, and behind it a system of trenches with fire weapons, bypass failed.
      But the award sheet says that as a result of a skillful workaround Already interesting.
      Further. And what actually could be a company of the 390th regiment of the 89th division as of May 01.05.1945, 01.05.1945. As of 4, the personnel of the entire division was 000 (four thousand people). The division includes 3 (three) rifle regiments and one 531st artillery regiment, as well as:
      154th separate SDI,
      219th Separate Reconnaissance Company,
      - training infantry battalion,
      280th Separate Engineer Battalion,
      476th Separate Communications Battalion,
      197th medical battalion,
      550th Separate Chemical Defense Company,
      184th motor transport company,
      466th field bakery,
      931st Division Veterinary Hospital
      1662th Field Post Station,
      1108th box office of the State Bank.

      That is, in each of the rifle regiments there were personnel, God forbid, 600 people.
      In each regiment, we will take at a minimum - 3 (three) battalions. And the headquarters of the regiment. In total, the battalion has a maximum of 180 people. Each battalion has three companies. That is, 60 people in a company. In total, the same "skillful roundabout maneuver" mentioned in the award list of Major General Safaryan, besides the fact that it ended in failure, it was still carried out not by the forces of the entire division and not even by the forces of the regiment of the division, but by the forces of 60 (sixty) people !!!

      But it goes without saying that the Order of Kutuzov II degree for the fact that
      "as a result of a skillful flanking maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blocked, and its garrison was forced to surrender completely"
      Major General Safaryan received. negative
      And what is it called?
  • Seal
    Seal 26 March 2016 20: 26
    0
    Well, I can’t help myself, so as not to again be outraged by the impudence of Nick Genisis.

    So, there is a Combat Log 38 of the rifle corps.

    89 sd
    400 cn - north fortress, church in the Humbolt Heine park.
    Those. 400 cn operates north of the fortress.
    526 cn - the intersection of Bruner Strasse and Ramler Strasse.
    That is, 526 cn is not at all in the Humbolt Heine park.
    390 joint ventures - operating in the second echelon from the Hoh Strasse region one rifle company began to bypass the fortress on the right, but passing the railway met an anti-tank moat, and behind it a system of trenches with fire weapons.
    Those. The 390 rifle regiment, being in the second echelon, sent one company (60 people maximum, or even less) to the right, bypassing the fortress on the north side (generally past the fortress with some kind of combat mission, but certainly not to storm the fortress with 5 000 garrison of ideological Nazis) but judging by the record that this company met an anti-tank ditch, and behind it a system of trenches with fire weapons, we can conclude that the bypass failed. the task was not completed
    Here is how these military operations, recorded in the 38 SK Combat Journal, in the award list for the commander of the 89th Division, Major General Safaryan, suddenly changed to the wording
    "As a result skillful workaround the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blockaded. And her garrison was forced to surrender completely. "

    And then the modern Armenian leaders had the conscience to compose the following statement:
    The 89th Armenian division defeated a strong garrison that strengthened in the center of the capital, in Humboldt-Heine. For this operation, the division was awarded the Order of Kutuzov II degree.

    Indeed, even the award list of Safaryan himself does not speak of any storming of the fortress! It is a question of a "skillful" flanking maneuver, which, as we see from the Combat Log of 38 sc, actually turned out to be unsuccessful, and even carried out by the forces of only one company !!

    And this nickname genisis still has the audacity to blame others for libel !!!

    Now to the story. This is how history is actually made.
    Specifically, the entire Armenian history is concocted in such a way that it contains "evidence" for any "historical" event, including the notorious Mongol conquest of almost all of Asia.
    Therefore, Armenians are always categorically against any historical research, as any research destroys their own beautiful, but fake history.

    Hence, they have a hysteria of the type: "I demand to bring for libel" and "we demand to introduce criminal liability for denying the" genocide "". The main thing for them is to ensure that under the threat of the death penalty no one dares to delve into their "great history."
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 22 March 2016 09: 11
    +6
    Quote: Sveles
    Canting village in the Voronezh region. --KAN - KHAN TEMIR - IRON KHAN, these toponyms are found in Russia ...


    This toponym has nothing to do with Russia; Kantemirovka appeared in honor of Dmitry Kantemir, ruler of the Moldavian Principality, faithful ally of Peter 1, forced to flee Moldova after defeat in the Prut campaign.
    1. Snow
      Snow 22 March 2016 09: 27
      0
      The man just reviewed Zadornov
    2. Sweles
      Sweles 22 March 2016 09: 30
      -7
      Quote: Aleksander
      This toponym has nothing to do with Russia, Cantemi appeared in honor of Dmitry Cantemir, ruler of the Moldavian principality, faithful ally of Peter 1,


      where is Moldova and where is cantemation, where is cantemir? Give proof to your words, however, what does it change? meaning it still remains at least in Moldova, even in Voronezh, even in the Horde ...
      1. Aleksander
        Aleksander 22 March 2016 10: 17
        +2
        Quote: Sveles
        where is Moldova and where is cantemation, and where is cantemir? The meaning is that it still remains at least in Moldova, even in Voronezh, even in the Horde ...


        Kantemirovka is an urban-type settlement. It was founded in the XVIII century as a settlement, which was named after the owners of land Dmitry and Konstantin Kantemirov. The point is that This toponym has nothing to do with Russia
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 22 March 2016 11: 17
          -5
          Quote: Aleksander
          Kantemirovka is an urban-type settlement. It was founded in the XVIII century as a settlement, which was named after the land owners Dmitry and Konstantin Kantemirov. The point is that this toponym has nothing to do with Russia


          I already said what a cantemir is, even if you are right, then indirectly, through the cantemirs, by the way, let's link to the fact that this village was in the possession of the cantemirs ...
  • Snow
    Snow 22 March 2016 09: 25
    +3
    it may be true of course, but your pseudonym and rage in the discussion gives you a fanatical person, and therefore not quite adykvatnogo. By the way, did you watch Zadornov?
  • Stanislas
    Stanislas 22 March 2016 17: 05
    0
    Quote: Sveles
    such place names are found in Russia
    Near Rostov there is the city of Bataisk. I have no doubt that there are Batai people who are ready, out of love for their city, to declare it the homeland of Batu. I do not even blame them, but I do not want them to write a story; let it be better written by those who claim that Batu was not given a name in honor of Bataysk, but the city was named after him.
  • Cap.Morgan
    Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 13
    +3
    Cossack - Kaz Ak - White Goose ...
  • Seal
    Seal 22 March 2016 16: 17
    0
    History is disgraced by such false Nazis as you, who brazenly rewrite the 89th Taman Rifle Division (Armenian), which was in reserve, a feat accomplished by the 52nd Riga Guards Rifle Division.
    Yes, a decent person from such a shame would have already hanged himself. And you (and your compatriots) do not consider this your shame and disgrace.
    1. genisis
      genisis 22 March 2016 16: 28
      +2
      I say - you are a cowardly, deceitful, vile, Nazi scum.

      Read the document and shut your mouth
      1. Seal
        Seal 22 March 2016 17: 24
        -1
        Well, that's what I’m talking about. See all !!!
        They stole the victory from the women of the 52nd Riga Guards Rifle Division and brazenly appropriated it to themselves.
        And now this stolen victory, this Nazi does not hesitate to flaunt here.
        But even here, in the Prize sheet, it was not possible to hide the truth.
        Here, I ask everyone to make sure. Written in faded black.
        "As a result of a skillful flanking maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blockaded. And its garrison was forced to surrender completely."

        And what do we see from this text? And we see how well, simply by the ears, we tied the 89th Armenian division to the surrender of the garrison of the anti-aircraft complex No. III in Humboldthayn. Flakpaare III Humboldthain).
        But they pulled it in elegantly. To be, so to speak, "clean" and in front of the 52nd Guards Riga SD and in front of other troops who were close and knew how it was. If that - you can always get out, they say:
        But you, what, we do not encroach on the feat of women of the 52nd Guards of Riga. Did we say somewhere in the award sheet that this 89th division stormed and forced the capitulation of the Flakpaare III Humboldthain garrison? No ! We only point out that the 89th Armenian Division is skillfully bypassed The Flakpaare III Humboldthain Anti-aircraft Tower and thereby blocked it. Well, the garrison surrendered, of course, not to the 89th Armenian division, but to the 52nd Riga.

        Damn, well, arrogant !!!
        What does it mean - "blocked" the anti-aircraft tower, located in the park. Humboldt on May 3, 1945, when the Berlin garrison had already surrendered? Yes, the Germans themselves climbed into this anti-aircraft tower, barricaded themselves in it and were not going to break through anywhere. And where could you break through in Berlin on May 3, 1945? And in fact, this anti-aircraft tower itself did not pose any threat to our advancing troops.
        The personnel took refuge in the towers, barricaded the entrances, and attempted to fire attackers from anti-aircraft guns. However, for ground targets 128 mm. the guns could shoot no closer than 8 kilometers because of the inability to lower the trunks below 10 degrees, and the tower had no spotters of fire at the leading edge, which could give target designation. Small-caliber guns were quickly destroyed by the fire of Soviet artillery and tanks, against which small-caliber anti-aircraft guns were powerless.

        But of course it was necessary to force the garrison of this tower to capitulate. What did the translator of the 52nd Guards Riga Zina Stepanova. She talked for almost an hour. About four years of the war, about millions of corpses, about destroyed cities and mutilated fates ...
        History has not preserved her exact words. And now, of course, it’s a pity that nobody wrote this speech, and we don’t know what words were saved by thousands, if not tens of thousands of human lives. Something she told them so that the Germans suddenly obeyed. They conferred quietly among themselves and declared that they accept the offer.
        At 12 o'clock on May 3, 1945, the personnel of the third complex surrendered.

        That's how Armenians lie in everything.
        And you, Mr. Armenian Nazi with the nickname Genisis, are actually the most vile, false Nazi bastard. Yes, and absolutely dumb. Which, as they say, looks in the book, but sees - nevermind.
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 March 2016 21: 35
          0
          DOCUMENTS RESPOND !!!
          We will analyze the genisis-awarded award sheet of Major General Safaryan.
          On the one hand, the award sheet of Major General Safaryan says correctly enough that they say
          "as a result of a skillful flanking maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blocked, and its garrison was forced to surrender completely"

          That is, there is no mention of any storming of the fortress in Humbolt Hain in the award list of Major General Safaryan.
          That is, it would seem that everything is clear to everyone and I can easily be satisfied that having put on display the award sheet of Major General Safaryan, genisis himself presented evidence of my innocence.
          But let's go further.
          And let's see how generally truthful is this paragraph from the award sheet of Major General Safaryan. We look at the Military Log of the 38th sk for 01.04.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX. We read:
          89 sd
          400 cn - north fortress, church in the Humbolt Heine park.
          That is, 400 cn operates north of the fortress.
          526 cn - the intersection of Bruner Strasse and Ramler Strasse.
          That is, 526 cn is not at all in the Humbolt Heine park.
          390 joint ventures - acting in the second echelon from the Hoh Strasse region with the same rifle company, began bypassing the fortress on the right, but passing the railway met an anti-tank moat, and behind it a system of trenches with fire weapons.
          That is, the 390 rifle regiment, being in the second echelon, sent one company past (bypassing) the fortress on the north side, but judging by the record that this company met an anti-tank moat, and behind it a system of trenches with fire weapons, the bypass failed.
          But the award sheet says that
          as a result of a skillful workaround
          Already interesting.
          Further. And what actually could be a company of the 390th regiment of the 89th division as of May 01.05.1945, 01.05.1945. As of 4, the personnel of the entire division was 000 (four thousand people). The division includes 3 (three) rifle regiments and one 531st artillery regiment, as well as:
          154th separate SDI,
          219th Separate Reconnaissance Company,
          - training infantry battalion,
          280th Separate Engineer Battalion,
          476th Separate Communications Battalion,
          197th medical battalion,
          550th Separate Chemical Defense Company,
          184th motor transport company,
          466th field bakery,
          931st Division Veterinary Hospital
          1662th Field Post Station,
          1108th box office of the State Bank.

          That is, in each of the rifle regiments there were personnel, God forbid, 600 people.
          In each regiment, we will take at a minimum - 3 (three) battalions. And the headquarters of the regiment. In total, the battalion has a maximum of 180 people. Each battalion has three companies. That is, 60 people in a company. In total, the same "skillful roundabout maneuver" mentioned in the award list of Major General Safaryan, which, in addition to the fact that it ended in failure, it was not yet carried out by the forces of the entire division and not even by the forces of the regiment of the division, and not even the battalion, but only by the forces of 60 (sixty) people !!!

          But it goes without saying that the Order of Kutuzov II degree for the fact that
          "As a result of a skillful roundabout maneuver, the German fortress in the Humboldt Heine park was blocked, and its garrison was forced to surrender completely" Major General Safaryan received.

          And what is it called? stop
  • Seal
    Seal 24 March 2016 02: 14
    -1
    Wow, as many as 10 votes believe the story is not disgraced. Well, let’s throw one minus from genisisa, who was cursing, cursing, but ran away to lick his wounds after he (apparently not reading) laid out a document that clearly shows that his 89th division, Humbold Jaime, did not storm, but bypassed him lol
    But for the remaining 9 fans of the purity of history I will give a number of statements. Without any own additions.
    So started.
    1. Old as the world debate about what history is - science or art. By the way, once again, Nelleke Noorervliet reminded the professional nature of the historical community of this dual nature of history (this is also a quote).
    “Everyone knows that Clio is a whore,” the Dutch writer said, not without shockingness, in her speech at the next International Congress of Historical Sciences in August last year. “She is sitting in front of a window in the red light district. Playful and voluptuous, she serves both shy academic academics and arrogant, assertive filmmakers. She looks at men and women equally invitingly and offers everything they desire: quick satisfaction, a long devastating affection, cruel unpredictable drama, unbridled passion. And all this does without much stress. Such is her game, but no one knows who she really is. She keeps her true identity a secret and smiles, like Monet Lisa, to those who ask her about it. She looks forever young, although as old as the world, and, of course, older than her profession. ”
  • Seal
    Seal 24 March 2016 02: 15
    -1
    2. In the novel “Penguin Island”, Anatole France openly scoffs at the writers of historical treatises:
    “Writing a story is extremely difficult. You probably never know how it all happened, and the more documents, the more difficulties for the historian. When only one single evidence of a fact has been preserved, it is established by us without any hesitation. Indecision arises only in the presence of two or more evidence of an event, since they always contradict one another and cannot be reconciled.
    Of course, the preference of one or another historical evidence to everyone else often rests on a solid scientific basis. But it is never so strong as to resist our passions, our prejudices and our interests or to prevent the manifestations of frivolity inherent in all serious people. That's why we constantly portray events either biased or too loose ...
    - Your Majesty! I told him. “I ask you to help me with your enlightened advice.” I put all my strength into making a story, but nothing works out for me!
    He shrugged his shoulders.
    - Why, darling, so trouble yourself with the compilation of historical work, when you can simply write off the most famous of the available, as is customary? After all, if you express a new point of view, some original idea, if you portray people and circumstances in some unexpected light, you will surprise the reader. And the reader does not like to be surprised. In history, he seeks only nonsense, long since known to him. Trying to teach the reader something, you will only offend and make him angry. Do not try to educate him, he will scream that you insult his beliefs.
    Historians rewrite each other. In this way, they save themselves from unnecessary labor and from accusations of arrogance. Follow their example, do not be original. An original-minded historian causes widespread distrust, contempt, and disgust.
    “Really, sir, do you think,” my interlocutor added, “that I would have achieved such recognition and honor if I had introduced any innovations into my historical books!” Well, what is innovation? Insolence is all! ”

    Don't you find that it painfully resembles the working methods of other professional historians? Their critical opuses directed against the authors of alternative versions contain nothing but contempt, disgust, and righteous anger. And in fact: miserable amateurs with a pork snout climb in a Kalash line, impure unclean fingers in an opening wound, ulcerate, giggle and prevent busy people from quietly copying each other.
  • Seal
    Seal 24 March 2016 02: 20
    -1
    1) "The Iliad, Plato, the Battle of Marathon, Moses, Venus of Medici, Strasbourg Cathedral, the French Revolution, Hegel, ships, etc. - all these are separate successful thoughts in God's creative dream. But the hour will come, and God will wake up, wipe his sleepy eyes, grin - and our world will melt without a trace, but it, perhaps, did not exist at all ".
    Heinrich Heine

    2) "History is just a fable accepted by all."
    B. Fontenel

    3) "History is a fiction that everyone agrees with."
    Вольтер

    4) "There are many pages in the history of any nation that would be great if they were true."
    Denis Diderot

    5) "History will prove my point, especially if I write it myself."
    Attributed to Winston Churchill

    6) "What is history but a lie that everyone agrees with?"
    Napoleon I

    7) "Historical truth consists of the silence of the dead."
    Etienne Rey

    8) "It is impossible to write the history of distant eras, because we do not have enough sources, and it is impossible to write the history of modern times, because we have too many sources."
    Charles Peggy

    9) "History is an appeal against modern misconceptions filed in the court of posterity."
    S. Segur

    10 ) "History is sometimes something that never happened, described by those who have never been there."
    E. Poncela

    11) "History is a series of fictitious events about what really happened."
    S. Montesquieu

    12 ) "The story begins when nothing can be verified."
    V. Verkhovsky

    13 ) "Those who make history are often at the same time falsifying it."
    V. Brudzinsky

    14 ) "No one has changed the history of mankind as much as historians.".
    E. Mackenzie

    15) "The historian is a large-caliber gossip."
    A. Beers

    16) "Historian is a failed prose writer".
    G. Mencken

    17 ) "Historians falsify the past, ideologists falsify the future."
    J. Petan

    18 ) "God cannot change the past, but historians can. And it must be precisely because sometimes they provide this service that God tolerates their existence."
    Samuel Butler

    19.) "Historical novels were born of truth, raped by lies."
    P. Boast

    20 ) "History is like meat pâté: it's better not to look closely at how it is prepared."
    Aldous Huxley

    21 ) "Everything is in the hands of the Lord, and only History has escaped His control. "
    Zbigniew Hedgehog

    22 ) “What will the story say?” “History, sir, lies, as always.”
    George Bernard Shaw

    23 ) "If you remove all the lies from history, this does not mean at all that only truth will remain - as a result, nothing may remain at all."
    Jerzy Stanislav Lets.
  • ver_
    ver_ 22 March 2016 11: 29
    0
    ... and what label do you deserve? ..
  • parusnik
    parusnik 22 March 2016 07: 41
    +10
    Our answer to Chamberlain .. smile Ukroistoriki confused .. smoke nervously, one by one .. Here you are, and Hyperborea, and Great Scythia, and Tartaria .. Ate? Wait a minute, we’ll dispute who dug up the Black Sea .. it’s not in vain that they were called Russian before .. smile ... It feels so much ... that in the name of Samsonov Alexander different authors hide behind ... This is even noticeable in terms of stylist ...
    1. Gorinich
      Gorinich 22 March 2016 10: 10
      +4
      At the expense of various authors, an interesting theory and most importantly, possibly true. There under the nickname kalibr can also write a few people and nothing.
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 32
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      Ukroistoriki confused .. smoke nervously, one by one .. Here you are, and Hyperborea, and Great Scythia, and Tartaria .. Ate?

      The only difference is that with us it’s just a book, and in Ukrainian there is a school program laughing
  • baudolino
    baudolino 22 March 2016 07: 45
    +2
    You can also offer "Veles's book" as a historical source for such articles. Very reputable source).
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 22 March 2016 07: 57
      0
      Santi Perun !!!
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 22 March 2016 07: 58
      +8
      Quote: baudolino
      You can also offer "Veles's book" as a historical source for such articles

      That is what the passenger will do under the nickname Swelesas soon as he wakes up ..

      Quote: baudolino
      Very authoritative source

      And he will prove it .. as twice two yes
  • todaygoodday
    todaygoodday 22 March 2016 07: 57
    +5
    One more. Apparently, new grants were allocated, spring aggravation began.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 22 March 2016 10: 59
      +2
      Believe me, neither RHF nor Soros will give a grant for this. It’s all on their own initiative to catch up with and overtake everyone!
      1. Stanislas
        Stanislas 22 March 2016 21: 10
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        neither RHF nor Soros will give a grant for this
        Are you sure that the international "philanthropist" did not have a hand in proto-ukram? I don’t have good data on the Ukrainian branch of his "almshouse", but why not give him and even God's grandchildren some money so that they bite with Orthodox fervor?
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 28
      -1
      Quote: todaygoodday
      One more. Apparently, new grants were allocated, spring aggravation began.

      Tell us how grants are distributed. Where can I get my share?
      1. todaygoodday
        todaygoodday 23 March 2016 07: 43
        0
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVx6YOKI4rY

        Visit this kind of congresses, prepare some thoughtful works about the bloody regime of Stalin / Putin / Alexander or about the Russian-Tatar empire who wants to enslave a free geyropa and they will immediately notice you.
  • Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 22 March 2016 07: 59
    +2
    "I have no words, only drooling ..." wassat
  • Seal
    Seal 22 March 2016 08: 11
    +12
    Also, after the disaster of 1917, thousands and tens of thousands of Russians turned up in China. Where are they?
    how is it where? Yes, there were many of ours in China. But after the conflict at the Chinese Eastern Railway, where a decent number of former emigrants worked, ours in China came under the "suspicion" of the Chinese authorities. And they were forced to leave. Someone returned to the USSR (where they came under the suspicion of our authorities). Someone went to Europe, USA, Australia and so on. Some even go to Japan. Then in China, and precisely in those places that were the places of traditional concentration of Russian emigrants, the Japanese-Chinese war began. Ours began to perish from both. Those who survived began to leave again.
    Finally, in 1945, after the defeat of the Kwantung Army (which by 1945 was already far from the strength that it represented in 1940-1941), our bodies remained tough on the remaining emigrants.
    And finally, the very remnants of the remaining ones, after the deterioration of relations with the USSR, Comrade Mao squeezed.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 22 March 2016 21: 15
      0
      Some local Russians occupied the pro-Chinese, part pro-Japanese-pro-Manchu positions.
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 31
      0
      Harbin is a city founded by Kutuzov’s grandson, General Kharbin.
  • rustyle_nvrsk
    rustyle_nvrsk 22 March 2016 08: 25
    0
    Call the orderlies. Here the client is ripe.
    1. Mr. Hipster
      Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 45
      0
      Quote: rustyle_nvrsk
      Call the orderlies. Here the client is ripe.

      We urgently need to find out who is behind the HE - is it by any chance the Ministry of Health ?! laughing
  • Cartalon
    Cartalon 22 March 2016 08: 29
    +6
    You don’t need to discuss it, but soon we will find out that the Russian descendants of the Atlanteans are in a straight line and all the rest are chimpanzees
    1. Snow
      Snow 22 March 2016 09: 19
      -3
      Yeah, right FOREVER some kind of Zadornov!
      1. ver_
        ver_ 22 March 2016 12: 08
        +2
        ..I suppose that you are so vain about Zadornov - he graduated from an aviation institute, an interesting person that you did not know about, but in comparison you lose ..
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 22 March 2016 15: 34
      +2
      Quote: Cartalon
      You don’t need to discuss it, but soon we will find out that the Russian descendants of the Atlanteans are in a straight line and all the rest are chimpanzees

      Why not? A neighing?
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 22 March 2016 08: 54
    +4
    Rave. Someone writes in what way and do not want to read articles by archaeologists. And archaeological data directly show that Pskov and Novgorod were populated from the sea, and populated from Pomerania, from the lands of Lutich and encouraged. And it is also obvious that Zalesskaya Russia was settled through Novgorod along the upper Volga and along the entire length of the Oka. Only after that there was a movement south towards Kiev, Smolensk and Chernigov.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 22 March 2016 09: 34
      +3
      Where does such self-confidence come from? Resettlements, sub-villages, settlements at different historical stages often went in exactly opposite directions. Pomerania - Novgorod, you know not to move from Korea to Murmansk. You can run 100 times back and forth in 10 years as a whole tribal union. This is not to say that what you said could not be. Of course it could. At a certain period and by a certain ethnic group. Let's just get rid of this peremptory attitude. Nobody denies the presence of colossal traditions of navigation among the same cheers. More abruptly than any Danes, Vikings. But this is not a "starting point". If this "chicken" encourages the land, then why was the "egg" in the east stronger? Not a warehouse. Civilization centers are always more stable than the periphery. So it is possible to agree that the Russian Plain was inhabited from Frisia. That is, from a glacier that slid into the North Sea. And where did you get to the glacier then? Have you sailed too? From Atlantis or what?
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 22 March 2016 10: 04
        +4
        Quote: andrew42
        From Atlantis or what?

        About 15 years ago, I came to archaeological excavations on the coast of the Barents Sea, on the Drozdovka River. There, the remains of a house made of logs were excavated, the analysis of which showed that these logs are NOT a FIN. And in the year before last, on the Rybachy Peninsula, they found many remains of beavers dating back to 2000 years. In a word, the previous speaker got a little excited, referring to "archaeological" data.
        1. Sleepwalker
          Sleepwalker 22 March 2016 10: 50
          -1
          Quote: Pomoryanin
          these logs are NOT FIN

          In 774 there was a powerful group explosion of a comet (7 fragments) - the Kola Peninsula, Slovensk (on Volkhov), Franz Josef Land (balls of stone on the island of Champ) were demolished.
          So 2000 years ago there was a forest and people and beavers ... and then a burnt stone with "atomic shadows" and another story.
          1. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 22 March 2016 10: 55
            +2

            [/ img] [/ center]
            Quote: Lunatic
            In 774 there was a powerful group explosion of a comet (7 fragments) - the Kola Peninsula, Slovensk (on Volkhov), Franz Josef Land (balls made of stone on Champ Island) were demolished

            I can believe in the version of the displacement of the earth's axis as a result of the impact of the comet, but not in the "demolition" of the Kola Peninsula. And how did the comet affect the disappearance of the deciduous forests of the Summer, Lyamnitsky and Pomorsky shores of the White Sea?
            1. Sleepwalker
              Sleepwalker 22 March 2016 11: 12
              -3
              Quote: Pomoryanin
              And how did the comet affect the extinction of the broad-leaved forests of the Summer, Lamnitsky and Pomeranian shores of the White Sea?

              Burned - imagine an explosion in TNT Gigatons of power at an altitude of 15 ... 20 km. So it is in other places. It's just that we have introduced a cult of "specialization" - archaeologists do not know physics, engineers do not dig, and therefore there is no understanding of the general picture - one beaver skeleton, another has a bomb.
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 22 March 2016 12: 04
                0
                Quote: Lunatic
                Burned - Imagine Explosion in Gigatons of TNT Power at Altitude

                Yes, I was on this Seyd Lake a hundred times and Kuyva that I saw in the photo. It is not scorched, it is rather knocked out bully
                No one has any information about the explosion and "demolition of the Kola Peninsula" anywhere. But climate change is there.
                Threat. And I visited the ZFI once.
                1. Sleepwalker
                  Sleepwalker 22 March 2016 21: 36
                  0
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  Yes, I was on this Seyd Lake a hundred times and Kuyva that I saw in the photo.

                  There are many more places where you can go and not understand what you see.
                  Your information about logs and beavers was useful, I shared mine, and accepting or not is a personal matter.
              2. ver_
                ver_ 22 March 2016 12: 18
                0
                ... an hour out of the series - I swear by my mom - I saw it myself ..
                1. Sleepwalker
                  Sleepwalker 22 March 2016 12: 44
                  -1
                  The problem is always how to NOT SEE - explosion physics, forecast, guidance, interception.
                  Those who saw close became plasma, and far and weak (3 Mt) - Chelyabinsk 13, full of video and the forest burned.
      2. Gorinich
        Gorinich 22 March 2016 10: 17
        +1
        "If the land is encouraged by this" chicken ", then why was the" egg "in the east stronger?" Look at the time. This is the approximate time of the beginning of Christianization, Germanization and genocide will encourage. And each pressure on Polabian Rus from the part of Germany caused a new wave of immigrants to the "new Rus".
    2. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 10: 01
      0
      Quote: Jurkovs
      And archaeological data directly show that Pskov and Novgorod were populated from the sea, and populated from Pomerania, from the lands of Lutich and encouraged.

      Where such confidence? And if you are so fond of operating with archaeological data, then explain how settlement could have come from the west, if there was a glacier, but it was not in Eastern Siberia and Asia? Or do you only operate on the freshest (relatively, of course, from a historical point of view) data? And the climate, for example, 2-5 thousands of years ago in the territory of northwestern Russia was completely different.
      1. Gorinich
        Gorinich 22 March 2016 11: 55
        +4
        The glacier then receded gradually. For example, the most famous route from the Varangians to the Greeks (via the Neva – Smolensk) is just the last one laid when the glacier had already receded and those places became passable. (At least that is what archaeologists say). When the Arabs closed Gibraltar, they intensively searched for ways to Constantinople. The first paths apparently tried to be laid along the Vistula and then along the Western Dvina. When trying to reconstruct the hydrological maps of Belarus at that time, it was discovered that this area was a country of shallow swampy lakes. The climate of the lake was changing; the waterways were closing, and therefore the routes of trade routes, and therefore migrations, were changing.
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 22 March 2016 12: 06
          0
          Quote: Gorinich
          The climate of the lake was changing; the waterways were closing, and therefore the routes of trade routes, and therefore migrations, were changing.

          I can tell you that even 900 years ago, for example, from Copenhagen to Kandalaksha (figuratively) Vienna could be passed without getting out of the boat. The Kola Peninsula, like the whole of Scandinavia, rises.
          1. Seal
            Seal 24 March 2016 07: 40
            -1
            Quote: Pomoryanin
            The Kola Peninsula, like the whole of Scandinavia, rises.

            That is, the Neva River 900 years ago was not there, right?
        2. Seal
          Seal 23 March 2016 23: 22
          0
          When the Arabs closed Gibraltar, they intensively searched for ways to Constantinople.

          What do you mean - shut down? What, the Arabs of Gibraltar pulled a chain? And the Arabs seemed to be very encouraging trade.
          Who was looking for? French people ? So they have a direct route from the French ports on the Mediterranean. Italians? The closer. The British? And why did they give up Constantinople? And throughout central Europe there was a direct path along the Danube.
          And by the way, what was the point of "looking for a way to Constantinople" if, according to the traditional version of history, the Arabs cut him off from all of Asia, and the Avars from all of Europe? Moreover, according to the traditional version of history, the Arabs and Avars laid siege to Constantinople.
  • ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 22 March 2016 08: 54
    +5
    Even Svidomye did not succeed in mixing our history with dung like all these "historians".
  • Engineer
    Engineer 22 March 2016 09: 07
    +2
    Not so long ago already wrote this Fomenko-Zadornovsky nonsense. Why again, word for word, tear this article and publish it here?
    1. Sweles
      Sweles 22 March 2016 09: 19
      -5
      Quote: Engineer
      Not so long ago already wrote this Fomenko-Zadornovsky nonsense. Why again, word for word, tear this article and publish it here?


      What do you dislike?
      1. Mr. Hipster
        Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 48
        -1
        Quote: Sveles
        What do you dislike?

        No, I really like it - the tradition of "laughing at the poor" is one of the strongest in Russia! laughing
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 22 March 2016 11: 21
          -4
          Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
          No, I really like it - the tradition of "laughing at the poor" is one of the strongest in Russia!


          you don’t go to my comments anymore, there’s no sense from you, either you are laughing like a horse, or you aren’t laughing at all, one word peep ...
          1. Mr. Hipster
            Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 46
            +2
            Quote: Sveles
            you laugh like a horse

            Well? I wrote why! fellow
            PS By the way, for a long time as a "cosmopolitan" and an amateur WORLD HISTORY interested in this moment, in relation to my beloved SEA - but who built Ankor Wat, also "Great Rusichi" ?! fellow
            Where on the territory of Ancient Russia are structures that at least in some way repeat the Buddhist structures of the "backward" SEA ?! request
            1. Sweles
              Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 22
              -4
              Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
              Where on the territory of Ancient Russia are structures that at least in some way repeat the Buddhist structures of the "backward" SEA ?!


              sulking, but the Kremlin and Pokrovsky Cathedral do you know anything?
              1. Mr. Hipster
                Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 12: 52
                +1
                Quote: Sveles
                and you know the Kremlin and Pokrovsky Cathedral

                Compared "opu" with a finger laughing
                And yes, you probably don’t know when and by whom and how many times the stone Kremlin was built ?! fool
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 22 March 2016 09: 11
    +6
    From childhood I wondered: "Where is that" incubator "from which, like a cornucopia, the Great Migration of Nations, where are so many of them from?"
    The story seems to me not as a whole, but as pieces of mosaics seen in a crooked mirror. That Russia, that the world. Too much is hidden behind the mystery of centuries, historians are too politicized, too much is hidden in the Vatican ...
    The time of truth in history has not come, it may never come.
    PS Genetics claim that Tatar is from a black man, and Russian from Chinese differ by only half a percent. And the pig is closest to humans. Maybe that's why the Muslims do not eat pork, and we, the rest, are entirely cannibals? wink
    1. Sleepwalker
      Sleepwalker 22 March 2016 10: 58
      -3
      There was not an "incubator" but "Palestine" - after a comet explosion, for example, over Sinai, those who survived from Iraq, for example, fled to Orenburg for 300 years, settled in, and then returned or ran away from the next comet.
      1. ver_
        ver_ 22 March 2016 12: 26
        +2
        ... what the hell is Palestine when, during the time of Napoleon, when his soldiers shot at the Sphinx and his nose was broken off - there were one and a half crippled Arabs ..
    2. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 22 March 2016 23: 36
      0
      Does Russian differ from the Chinese by half a percent? One-a-ao ...
  • Pig
    Pig 22 March 2016 09: 12
    +8
    Such nonsense is no different from the Svidomite fantasies about "proto-ukrah" who dug out the Black Sea ...
    but Turkmen scientists give a tooth that the Ancient Turkmen lived on the entire territory of the Earth - and even in Greenland! and Christopher Columbus with a probability of 67,8% was a Turkmen, like Jesus Christ ...
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 22 March 2016 09: 20
      +2
      And the most important thing to remember for such authors is that ... to start writing on such "non-trivial" topics should be from reputable historical journals, confirming their theses with references to various sources and specifically pointing out inconsistencies. The articles on the MILITARY REVIEW website should not start, but FINISH!
      1. Sweles
        Sweles 22 March 2016 09: 25
        -5
        Quote: kalibr
        And the most important thing to remember for such authors is that ... to start writing on such "non-trivial" topics should be from reputable historical journals, confirming their theses with references to various sources and specifically pointing out inconsistencies. The articles on the MILITARY REVIEW website should not start, but FINISH!


        Shpakovsky forgot to ask you. The solid magazines are so closed that a dagger’s blade wouldn’t fit in there, F-Ns wrote that they wanted to have a dialogue through historical magazines, but they weren’t allowed to go there, and you know about it, so you don’t have to dissemble the crowd ...
        1. Pig
          Pig 22 March 2016 09: 36
          +6
          "" F-Ns wrote that they wanted to have a dialogue through historical magazines, but they are not allowed there ""
          and rightly so because this should only go with the postscript "Alternative History"! and to put THIS into serious magazines means to discredit them forever ... then these SERIOUS magazines will not differ in any way from the tabloid "yellow" sheets where they write about the Chupacabra and the construction of Egyptian pyramids "aliens"
          even Prokopenko at the end of his programs began to say - like "the knowledge gained in our program cannot be used by applicants entering universities" (apparently there were precedents))))
          1. Sweles
            Sweles 22 March 2016 09: 53
            -7
            Quote: Pig
            and rightly so, because something like this should only go with the postscript "Alternative History"! and to put THIS in serious journals means to discredit them forever ...


            what Fomenko and Nosovsky are investigating is not an "alternative" history, but a real one, and they prove their words with the help of a mathematical apparatus, i.e. the most serious science, which correspondence opponents from academic publications do not know. But this is all nonsense to break through the gates is not in the nature of F-N, they just write books, create films, communicate with people and people who are friends with their heads completely trust them, because the conclusions of mathematicians are logical, unlike the shamanic dances of academic publications, where you won't understand where, what comes from ...
            1. Pig
              Pig 22 March 2016 10: 16
              +3
              "" and they prove their words with the help of a mathematical apparatus ie the most serious science, which correspondence opponents from academic publications do not know ""
              explain to us fools what "MATHEMATICAL APPARATUS" means ???
              history should be dealt with by historians and not mathematicians (such as Fomenko) or ophthalmologists (such as Muldashev)
              1. Sweles
                Sweles 22 March 2016 11: 10
                -6
                Quote: Pig
                explain to us fools what "MATHEMATICAL APPARATUS" means ???


                why do you fools to prove, you still won’t understand, to teach a fool, only to spoil laughing ...
                1. Pig
                  Pig 22 March 2016 11: 27
                  +2
                  Sveles you all manners like Svidomo! in Ukraine, a whole country brought to insanity such woodpeckers like you!
                  you have already sunk to complete nonsense! "mathematical apparatus" ... you and your "mathematical apparatus" pronounced a verdict on all fomenko-like
                  remember Veles historical science does not work with "mathematical apparatus" it works with historical sources
                  1. Sweles
                    Sweles 22 March 2016 11: 41
                    -7
                    Quote: Pig
                    you have already sunk to complete nonsense! "mathematical apparatus" ... you and your "mathematical apparatus" pronounced a verdict on all fomenko-like


                    you would have covered your mouth, I would say, but Smirnov is fierce, does not allow to speak Russian, except for words you have nothing for your soul and you climb into a bottle or work out the "basics of the system" or out of stupidity and ignorance out of a sense of contradiction, but only stubbornness is the first sign of stupidity ...

                    Quote: Pig
                    remember Veles historical science does not work with "mathematical apparatus" it works with historical sources


                    FN deal with the CHRONOLOGY of events and therefore the chronology is always ahead of history, first the dates are set, and only then you can argue who is who. This is already understood by everyone except you ...
                    1. Pig
                      Pig 22 March 2016 11: 54
                      +3
                      "except for words you have nothing for your soul"
                      it's always easy for people like you! at least in your eyes on the ssy you say - God's dew! and for any arguments begins about the "foundations of the system", "work out" and then to direct insults! mind you, Sveles, it is only you here insulting everyone and this is the first sign of ignorance and stupidity in which you accuse others ... you at least read your Fomenka and learned on the basis of what he draws his conclusions (he writes about this) so that he does not look completely feeble-minded ...
                      "" chronology is always ahead of history, first the dates are set, and only then one can argue who is who ""
                      enchanting! Dates just like that or what? on the empty place? each date has a link to a historical event, which in turn must be confirmed by any historical sources (written or otherwise)
                      it's only for fomen-like charlatans the opposite is true
                      1. Sweles
                        Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 41
                        -3
                        Quote: Pig
                        enchanting! Dates just like that or what? on the empty place? each date has a link to a historical event, which in turn must be confirmed by any historical sources (written or otherwise)
                        it's only for fomen-like charlatans the opposite is true


                        on which on "empty" stupidity? horoscopes are examined, symbols are recognized, programs are written, data are entered, and conclusions are drawn from the results of calculations ...
                      2. Pig
                        Pig 22 March 2016 13: 02
                        +1
                        Where does the data that "enter" come from?
                        about horoscopes it is very strong ... if Fomenko read how you would discredit him here, he would be killed on the wall
                      3. Sweles
                        Sweles 22 March 2016 13: 05
                        -2
                        Quote: Pig
                        Where does the data that "enter" come from?
                        about horoscopes it is very strong ... if Fomenko read how you would discredit him here, he would be killed on the wall

                        from a camel, everything is clear with you ...
                      4. Seal
                        Seal 24 March 2016 08: 21
                        0
                        Where does the data that "enter" come from?

                        Very correct formulation of the question. Really, where from?
                        Coming from Alas Topper.
                        Wilhelm Kammayer, born “between 1890 and 1900,” (Nimitz, 1991). He studied law, worked at the end of his life as a school teacher in Thuringia, where he died in the 50s in complete poverty [9 - Before World War II, Kammayer worked as a notary and lawyer in Hanover and in his criticism of historiography, which he began in 1923, he used all the subtleties of his legal profession (his first book). In the Weimar Republic, historians refused to deal with Kammayer and his criticism. He did not receive recognition from the National Socialists. In the atheistic GDR, upon returning from Soviet captivity, he hoped for a positive attitude of the authorities towards his criticism of the early Catholic Church (his second book), but the danger of his criticism for all historical mythology was recognized, the original of his manuscript was confiscated by STASI, and he was fired from teacher positions. He died in 1959 as a result of chronic malnutrition (i.e., from hunger) and was buried in Arnstadt. In addition to the two books indicated in the list of literature, he published several brochures from which his third book, The Truth about the History of the Late Middle Ages, was compiled, first published in 1979.].

                        The field of application of his research activity was written evidence of the Middle Ages. Each legal act, he believed, whether it was an act of giving or confirming granted privileges, first of all satisfies four basic requirements: from it it is clear who to whom, when, where this document was issued. A document whose address or date of issue is unknown is null and void.

                        What we take for granted was otherwise perceived by people of the late Middle Ages and the beginning of the New Age. Many older documents do not indicate the full date; not a year or day, or neither one nor the other. Their legal value, therefore, is zero. Kammayer established this fact, thoroughly analyzing the codes of medieval documentation; for the most part he worked with the multi-volume edition of Harry Bresslau (Berlin, from 1889 to 1931).
                      5. Seal
                        Seal 24 March 2016 08: 22
                        0
                        Bresslau himself, who took most of the documents at face value, amazed to note that the 12th, 835th, and even 17th centuries were a period “when the mathematical sense of time among scribes, even those who served — neither more nor less — in the imperial chancellery, was in its infancy ; and in the imperial documentation of this era we find countless evidence of this. ” Bresslau then gives examples: since January of the 18th year of the reign of Emperor Lothar I (respectively, 976 CE), the dating jumps to February 955th of the reign of the same monarch; events take their course only until March, and then from May, for two and a half years of dating, supposedly represent the XNUMXth year of rule. During the reign of Otto I, two documents are dated XNUMX, instead of XNUMX, etc. The documents of the papal office are full of similar errors. Bresslau is trying to explain this with local differences in the countdown for the start of the new year; confusion of the dates of the act itself (for example, donation) and the notarial record of the act (preparation of a deed of gift), psychological errors (especially immediately after the beginning of the year); negligence of scribes, and yet: a great many written testimonies have completely impossible dating.

                        But the thought of falsification does not occur to him, on the contrary: the often repeated mistake confirms the authenticity of the document for Bresslau. And this despite the fact that many dates are obviously affixed retroactively, sometimes in such a way that they simply cannot be taken apart! Bresslau, a man of encyclopedic education, with the industriousness of a mole, who had overloaded a lot of material, worked through tens of thousands of documents, could not evaluate the results of his scientific search and, having risen above the material, saw him from a new angle.

                        The first to succeed Kammayer.

                        One of Kammayer's contemporaries, Bruno Krush, who worked, like Bresslau, in academic science, in Essays on Frankish Diplomacy (1938, p. 56), reports that he came across a document that lacked letters, and “they gaped lacunae. " But he had previously come across letters, where names were left “for later filling in” (p. 11). There are many false documents, Krush continues, but not every researcher can make out a fake. There are “ridiculous fakes” with “unthinkable dating,” such as a letter of privilege to King Hlodwig III, which was exposed by Henshen and Papebroch back in the 9th century. The letter provided by King Hlotar III Beziers, which Bresslau considers to be quite probable, Krush declares to be "pure water a fake, never possibly disputed, probably because it was instantly recognized by anyone as an understanding critic." The collection of documents “Chronicon Besuense” Krush unconditionally refers to the falsifications of the XII century (p. 10) [1200 - The Chronicle of the monk Johannes de Beza, allegedly compiled around 600, “describes” the events of 1174-XNUMX. Despite Krush’s revelations, he continues to appear on the lists of Latin "sources".].
                      6. Seal
                        Seal 24 March 2016 08: 23
                        0
                        Studying the first volume of Pertz's “Collection of Acts” (1872), Krush praises the author of the collection for discovering that along with the ninety-seven supposedly genuine acts of the Merovingians and the twenty-four supposedly genuine acts of the majordoms, there are almost as many fakes: 95 and 8. respectively any archival research is the determination of the authenticity of a written certificate. A historian who does not achieve this goal cannot be considered a professional in his field. ” In addition to the fakes disclosed by Pertz, Krush calls as such many of the documents recognized by Pertz for the originals. Partially, various other researchers have already indicated this. Most of the falsifications not recognized by Pertz, according to Krush, are so obvious that they are not subject to serious discussion: fictitious place names, style anachronisms, false dates. In a word, Kammayer turned out to be just a little more radical than the leading figures of German science.

                        A few years ago, Hans-Ulrich Nimitz, after analyzing Kammeier's theses again, concluded that the factual material collected by a humble teacher from Thuringia can thrill any sane representative of academic science: there is not a single important document or serious literary work of the Middle Ages in the manuscript of the original. The copies available to historians are so different from each other that it is not possible to reconstruct the "original original" from them. The “genealogical trees” of the surviving or quoted chains of copies are leading to this conclusion with enviable persistence. Taking into account that the scale of the phenomenon excludes chance, Kammeier comes to the conclusion: “The numerous supposedly“ lost ”originals never really existed” (1980, p. 138).

                        From the problem of “copies and originals,” Kammaier goes on to analyze the actual content of the “documents” and, among other things, establishes that the German kings and emperors were deprived of their permanent residence, having been on their way all their lives. Often they were present in two places at the same time, or as soon as possible covered huge distances. Based on such documents, modern “chronicles of life and events” contain information about imperial erratic throwings.

                        Many official acts and certificates lack not only the date and place of issue, but even the name of the addressee. This applies, for example, to every third document of the era of the reign of Henry II and to every second document of the era of Conrad II. All these “blind” acts and certificates do not have legal force and historical authenticity [11 - Such “documents” indicate that the industry of falsification of letters produced to order and after appropriate payment any document at the request of the customer. And if this one - without being very literate - doubted the name of the donor or the person being gifted, the date or the name of the locality, and wanted to consult these details with authorized persons, then of course they made him a letter with any set of passes.].
                      7. Seal
                        Seal 24 March 2016 08: 26
                        0
                        Such an abundance of falsifications is alarming, although a limited number of fakes should be expected. Upon closer inspection, Kammayer comes to the conclusion that there are practically no genuine documents, and fakes are made in most cases at an extremely low level, and the sloppiness and haste in making fakes does not honor the medieval guild of forgeries: anachronisms of style, spelling, font fonts. The widespread reuse of parchment after scraping old records from it contradicts all the rules of fake art. Possibly, multiple scraping of texts from old parchments (palimpsest) is nothing more than an attempt to “age” the canvas of the original to give greater authenticity to the new content. [12 - It is possible that in parallel with inventing a virtual past at the “highest level”, another process of “making history” took place from below, from the thick of the recently born layer of feudal lords. Arriving much later than historians living with the wrong chronology imagine, feudal relations (from about the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries in southern France and northern Italy, and then in other European countries) led to the seizure of land by future feudal lords, to a partition between them vast territories. When, with the spread of literacy at the beginning of the Renaissance, the idea arose of giving legitimacy to seizures through invented donations, the industry of fabricating all kinds of “ancient” documents quickly appeared. With their help, they tried to justify their rights to the possessions of other feudal lords or to imperial cities. This instrumentalization of the “ancient” documents was especially famous for the French king Louis XIV.]

                        So, it has been established: the contradictions between the individual documents are insurmountable.

                        To my question about the purpose of making innumerable materially worthless fakes, Kammayer gives, in my opinion, the only logical and obvious answer: falsified documents should, having filled the gaps with ideologically and ideologically “correct” content, imitate “History”. The legal value of such “historical documents” is zero.

                        The gigantic amount of work determined its haste, uncontrollability and, as a result, carelessness in execution: many documents are not even dated.

                        After the first errors with conflicting dates, they began to leave the line for the date blank, as if the drafters were waiting (and did not wait) for the appearance of a certain unified installation line, which had never been completed.
                        (The Jesuit Order was broken up - my footnote hi )
                        Cummayer's highly unusual ideas, which now seem to me based on a true basic idea, have not been accepted by contemporaries. The continuation of his investigation and the search for clarity should be the most important task of all historians.

                        Comprehension of Kammayer’s discovery prompted me to undertake studies, the result of which was the firm conviction that, indeed, from the time of the early humanists (Nikolai Kuzansky) to the Jesuits, a conscious and zealous falsification of history was carried out, devoid, as already mentioned, of a single accurate plan . A terrible change in our historical knowledge has occurred. The results of this process affect each of us, for they give us a glimpse of actual past events.
              2. Seal
                Seal 24 March 2016 08: 06
                0
                remember Veles historical science does not work with "mathematical apparatus" it works with historical sources

                And this is her greatest mistake. A good example. Only the mathematical apparatus incorporated in the PLAGIAT program is able to identify the number of repetitions of other people's phrases, paragraphs, and entire pages in dissertations.
                And only the mathematical apparatus is able to find that very first dissertation, which all the others have been rewriting for decades and dragging phrases and whole pages from there into their dissertations.
                And only the mathematical apparatus is able to do all the same with the so-called "historical sources", reaching 99,99999% of modern historians in the form of ready-made books about "ancient sources".

                For the sake of interest, ask at least all your acquaintances historians on the subject, whether they held in their hands at least one "genuine historical document", well, for example, under the signatures of "J. Caesar", "AF Macedonian"; "K. the Great" and so on. Or have you even seen photocopies of these documents on the Internet?
          2. Seal
            Seal 24 March 2016 07: 53
            0
            history must be dealt with by historians

            Why are professional historians, without being specialists in anything and knowing nothing from the fields of military affairs, metallurgy, chemistry, physics, medical science, music, sculpture, painting, and so on, are taken to explain all this to us. Yes, and not yet the current state, but ancient?
            What is the main problem? Let's say a certain historian wrote a huge professional work. I read it to the military (well, after all, over 50 percent of all historical works is a description of military campaigns) - from his point of view, he noted that this shtafka wrote complete nonsense. But since the military man is also not a chemist, not a physicist, not a metallurgist, not a doctor .. he understood, thought that it was only by him, the historian wrote nonsense on the military side. Well, I wrote and wrote that, the military has other things to do, besides this historian's face in his stupidity to poke?
            At the same time as the military, the doctor read the work of the historian. And he also noted that from the point of view of medicine, the historian wrote complete nonsense. But since the doctor is not a specialist in the military sphere, in painting, physics, chemistry (although he probably is in chemistry), shipbuilding, music, and so on, and the doctor has his own affairs, he did not bother with a refutation of the work of a professional historian .
            And just like that, the historian’s work was read:
            - chemist;
            - physicist;
            - sculptor;
            - artist;
            - metallurgy
            - shipbuilder
            and so on.
            Everyone noted that complete nonsense was written in their field - but since none of them sees the general picture, and even the book is full of rave reviews from the historian's colleagues - the same historians as he (she) himself (herself) - the book is published in light, children learn from it, films are made from it, and after some time, subsequent generations of historians consider that work as a "document".
            Here and before and now, a lot of historians enthusiastically describe all the possible various military campaigns and battles. Name at least one historian with a higher military education?
            And how many historical dissertations and “works” on this subject have been submitted for review to the Academy of the General Staff? ZERO !!! Historians, although they are historians, they nevertheless understand perfectly well that it is necessary to discuss all their “works” exclusively in their midst, since God forbid their “works”, for example, on the theme of “antique campaigns and battles” will fall on a review of the external environment, for example, to the professional military - this will be such a shame !!!
        2. Mr. Hipster
          Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 08
          +3
          Quote: Sveles
          not an "alternative" history, but a real one, and they prove their words with the help of a mathematical apparatus, i.e. the most serious science

          How would you explain that more clearly, let me copy-paste:
          "there is mathematics, in which there are logical constructions, and there is reality, in which there are readings of instruments - the results of experiments. There is no natural imposition of mathematics on reality. A physicist / economist / ecologist / demographer can adopt a specific design if the numbers in it are obtained similar to those that he sees in experiments, or may not take it.That is, in reality, for example, there is no Newton's law of gravity - this is a mathematical model that predicts well such real values ​​as the speed of an apple falling to the Earth, the speed of the Earth around the Sun, at what speed and at what angle you need to launch the projectile so that it hits the right place, and other kosher things, but with the orbit of Mercury, at least a little, but the feilite "
          That is, mathematics is not something real, these are "mathematical methods" that can both work and "predict" some physical processes in a given case, and may not predict in another taken case. wassat
          And here the main question is - are any mathematical methods applicable in history?
          No - not applicable! Because mathematical methods "predict" and explain only repeatable experiments and physical models, and history is an accident - it is impossible to predict the appearance of Ivan the Terrible and the results of his reign using mathematical methods - and, accordingly, it is impossible to "predict" when he was, lived and what he did - here you can only use experimental results - archeology and other historical, verifiable data! hi
          1. Sweles
            Sweles 22 March 2016 11: 50
            -4
            Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
            How would you explain that more clearly, let me copy-paste:
            "there is mathematics, in which there are logical constructions, and there is reality, in which there are indications


            Well, you said stupidity in your copy-paste, mathematics can calculate not only future events (comet arrival, distance to it, star position in the sky in the past and the future, and much more), but past events, because for mathematics, the past is an ordinary timeline and such idiots as academic historians are not able to understand in principle, because the school had two-year-olds and poorly studied and could only do historical. So it continues to the two-wayers in the past, they begin to talk about what they do not understand ...
            1. Mr. Hipster
              Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 12: 26
              -2
              Quote: Sveles
              but past events, because for mathematics, the past is an ordinary timeline

              Once again, "mathematics" can only predict repeatable experiments and physical models and predict the past, which is random and unrepeatable is not possible fellow
              Quote: Sveles
              comet arrival, distance to it, star position in the sky in the past and future, and much more

              If you knew at least something "from mathematics", then you would know that it is not possible to calculate the "flight of a comet" using Newtonian physics-mathematics, you need a physicist-mathematician Einstein, with which it is impossible to calculate the flight of a projectile from a cannon, but to calculate the flight of an electron is no longer possible either by one or the other mathematics - that is, to calculate the flight of 3 material bodies, three different "mathematical" models are used, each of which contradicts the other - and in general it is not at all surprising that Fomenko, who mastered hundreds of "mathematical methods" eventually went crazy and began to "predict" history using an "ordinary timeline" laughing
              1. Sweles
                Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 48
                -4
                Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                Once again, with the help of "mathematics" you can predict only repeatable experiments and physical models and predict the past, which is not possible by chance and unrepeatable


                already told you you're full fool if the comet galley has periodicity, then such a model can be predicted both in the future and in the past fool , which was confirmed by historical facts ...

                Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                If you knew at least something "from mathematics", then you would know that it is not possible to calculate the "flight of a comet" using Newtonian physics-mathematics, you need a physicist-mathematician Einstein


                nnda you're typical stubborn fool fool ALL CALCULATIONS of celestial bodies are calculated in the framework of the CLASSIC SKY MECHANICS illiteracy ...
                1. Mr. Hipster
                  Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 13: 52
                  +1
                  Quote: Sveles
                  if the comet galeya has periodicity, then such a model can be predicted both in the future and in the past

                  It the comet has periodicity, and historical events have no periodicity - calculate them mathematically and predict with the help of mathematics the "great October" knowing the date "French" and "English" NOT POSSIBLE ! fool
                  Quote: Sveles
                  ALL CALCULATIONS of celestial bodies are calculated in the framework of the CLASSIC CELESTIAL MECHANICS illiteracy.

                  In your case, dense! laughing
                  Calculations of celestial bodies are calculated using classical physics only in the case when it is possible and more convenient to neglect the inaccuracy of the calculations of classical physics because of the greater simplicity of calculations. Do you understand? fool
                  To be more precise, the real trajectory of the satellite to Mercury can only be calculated using Einstein’s physics and mathematics (since calculations using Newton’s physics and mathematics will give tens and hundreds of kilometers of error) but they are considered to be using Newton’s physics, because calculations are easier and shorter , and physicists don't care about their inaccuracy in this case! wassat
                  But when calculating the landing of the "mercurial" it is already necessary to use the physics and mathematics of Einstein, because one cannot give a damn about the inaccuracies of the calculation of classical physics, the "mercurial" in this case either smears itself on the surface or even flies past it - and it costs money! fellow
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Sweles
                    Sweles 22 March 2016 14: 22
                    -7
                    Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                    This comet has a periodicity, and historical events do not have a periodicity - it is NOT POSSIBLE to calculate them mathematically and predict with the help of mathematics the "great October", knowing the "French" and "English" dates!


                    dullness turning into pathology fool

                    Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
                    To be more precise, the real trajectory of the satellite to Mercury can only be calculated using Einstein’s physics and mathematics (since calculations using Newton’s physics and mathematics will give tens and hundreds of kilometers of error) but they are considered to be using Newton’s physics, because calculations are easier and shorter , and physicists don't care about their inaccuracy in this case!
                    But when calculating the landing of the "mercurial", it is already necessary to use the physics and mathematics of Einstein, because one does not care about the inaccuracies of the calculation of classical physics, the "mercurial" in this case either smears on the surface or even flies past it - and he has a hundred bucks


                    you do not defecate a word here, but give a link, when did you use the theory of relativity when calculating the flight to Mars?
                  3. grandson of the hero
                    grandson of the hero 22 March 2016 16: 01
                    +4
                    And here let's get more detailed, because we managed to stumble upon a specialist in this field. If you have a tight understanding of the fundamentals of Newton’s laws and the general theory of relativity, I ask you not to touch this area. Otherwise, you are more likely to lose the coast. Gather knowledge, and then come to a discussion of relevant topics. Do not forget about the cat. Much will explain. In general, mathematics is an exact science, and many things, events and phenomena are predicted to it long before their physical or organoleptic detection. Good luck.
                  4. Pig
                    Pig 22 March 2016 16: 33
                    0
                    in this case, they try to replace mathematics with palmistry
                  5. ver_
                    ver_ 23 March 2016 19: 14
                    +1
                    ... except Einstein's theory of relativity ..
        3. Oldwiser
          Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 01
          +1
          Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
          Are any mathematical methods applicable in history?

          History is a factography of society as a large social system. A study of the behavior of large systems is carried out by mathematical methods - modeling and statistics.
        4. Oldwiser
          Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 01
          0
          Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
          Are any mathematical methods applicable in history?

          History is a factography of society as a large social system. A study of the behavior of large systems is carried out by mathematical methods - modeling and statistics.
          1. Mr. Hipster
            Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 12: 54
            0
            Quote: OldWiser
            History is a factography of society as a large social system. A study of the behavior of large systems is carried out by mathematical methods - modeling and statistics.

            Go nuts wassat wassat wassat
            And this (more precisely similar to what you think) is a "prediction" of the future! How are you going to predict the past with this? belay
  • kalibr
    kalibr 22 March 2016 10: 37
    +3
    Do you know that they are closed, from your own experience, or did someone tell you? Yes, it is difficult to get there, but all properly motivated articles with links to sources are published, including those that refute the most "generally accepted" provisions. And your FINs are not allowed there because only there was not enough nonsense, the local publications will be enough. But all this has already been here many times, why repeat. I wrote to you about Danilevsky's arguments. This is enough for all those who do not understand. Nothing is enough for the insane!
  • Mr. Hipster
    Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 10: 50
    -1
    Quote: Sveles
    F-ns wrote that they wanted to have a dialogue through historical magazines, but they were not allowed there

    BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT HISTORIANS !!!! laughing
    And this is obvious to anyone with an undamaged brain! laughing
    1. Sweles
      Sweles 22 March 2016 11: 12
      -4
      Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
      BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT STORIES !!!


      you’re a club, they’re not going to prove reconstruction, but only DATING, Almagest, Thucydides, Italian and Egyptian horoscopes fool
      1. Mr. Hipster
        Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 48
        0
        Quote: Sveles
        not going to prove reconstructions, but only DATING

        Especially for "Rusichi" I wrote above briefly what "mathematics" is and why using mathematical methods NOT POSSIBLE predict an accident in the past fool
  • Riv
    Riv 22 March 2016 10: 21
    +1
    In fact, the author began precisely with reputable magazines ... the middle of the century before last. I’m thinking: how do I know all this nonsense? .. And this is the theory of pan-Slavism in full growth.
    1. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 22 March 2016 11: 34
      +6
      Quote: Riv
      Pan-Slavism Theory

      and Pan-Turkism is its twin brother, since "Rus-Horde" and "Osmania-Atamania" are brothers forever (according to NH)
    2. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 22 March 2016 11: 34
      0
      Quote: Riv
      Pan-Slavism Theory

      and Pan-Turkism is its twin brother, since "Rus-Horde" and "Osmania-Atamania" are brothers forever (according to NH)
  • garnik64
    garnik64 22 March 2016 09: 15
    +1
    And where are the Serbs, Poles, Western Slavs from? No need to pour water to the mill of Bandera. Enough of the greatness of the people at the present time. Maintain.
  • Aleksander
    Aleksander 22 March 2016 09: 16
    +9
    Remember for life since the last article:

    BATY - Dad,
    MOM MOM
    yes ...

    Now I’m shaming everyone ... yes
    1. Riv
      Riv 22 March 2016 10: 19
      +4
      Rus - cowards ...
      Hence the conclusion: the Scythians wore cowards before the new era, and then the word was transformed.
      1. Koshak
        Koshak 22 March 2016 17: 23
        +2
        Indian sepoys - from the Ufa Sipailovo! Who is next??? recourse
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 22 March 2016 17: 27
          +1
          Quote: Koshak
          Indian sepoys - from the Ufa Sipailovo! Who is next???

          And about "Russia - Homeland of the Elephants" has already been there? repeat
    2. Mr. Hipster
      Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 09
      +1
      Quote: Aleksander
      Remember for life since the last article:

      Yes - it was enchanting laughing
      1. guzik007
        guzik007 22 March 2016 13: 41
        +5
        Summing up the drooling on the monitor from Sveles, I come to the conclusion that the theory of F-N has spawned a dangerous community of "new Svidomo" ready to defend their teachings with impudent rudeness towards opponents.: =)
        1. Sweles
          Sweles 22 March 2016 14: 07
          -7
          Quote: guzik007
          Summing up the drooling on the monitor from Sveles, I come to the conclusion that the theory of F-N has spawned a dangerous community of "new Svidomo" ready to defend their teachings with impudent rudeness towards opponents.: =)


          Well, how would you like to speak politely with obvious stupidity, ignorance, insults? what is the question, such is the answer, speak on the matter without defamation and labeling, then the conversation can and will succeed, well, not about you of course ...
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 22 March 2016 17: 30
            0
            Sweles, that's it -

            Quote: Sveles
            in the case without defamation and labeling

            - and let’s have a couple of phrases about the English language?

            I can’t vouch for the taste, but it’s hot - it will be

            laughing

            PS: But Sweles took it and dumped it ... sorry, such a fun repeat doesn’t know in an angel, a hike, not a word .. but he passionately hates him and boils violently .. such a toy escaped, eh .. request
            1. Sweles
              Sweles 22 March 2016 18: 55
              -4
              Quote: Cat Man Null

              PS: But Sweles took it and knocked it down .. sorry, such a mean angel doesn’t know, a campaign, not a word .. but


              make fun with a dildo once you love toys, you look closer to me ...
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 22 March 2016 19: 01
                0
                Quote: Sveles
                make fun with a dildo once you love toys, you look closer to me ..


                Ay-yai-yay, Sweles, Sweles .. but as he sang something sweet:

                Quote: Sveles
                in the case without defamation and labeling

                Cho doesn’t get it? I’ll have to teach .. here I’m looking after you .. Sweles yes
        2. Mr. Hipster
          Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 14: 12
          0
          Quote: guzik007
          that the theory of F-N spawned a dangerous community of "new Svidomo" ready to defend their doctrine with impudent rudeness towards opponents

          Yes.
          What such "svidomye" leads to in society is clearly seen in the example of "Square" sad
  • andrew42
    andrew42 22 March 2016 09: 19
    -1
    "The Rus have inhabited the expanses of the Balkans since ancient times, including Greece-Goretia and Crete-Lurker, modern Poland, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Denmark, Northern France, Northern Italy, Scandinavia. The process of their physical destruction, assimilation, Christianization, and displacement from Europe began approximately in the middle of the 1st millennium AD It was the Slavic-Russian tribes who completely crushed the late rotten Rome (the "Germanic" tribes, which are counted among the Germans, have nothing to do with them, for example, the "Germans" -Vandals are the Slavs-Wends But the flag of "Roman infection" was already picked up by Western Christian Rome and the Romeian (Byzantine) Empire, a protracted war began, which went on for a thousand years (and continues to this day, since the "Russian question" has not yet been resolved). they destroyed, turned into “German-dumb”, who were thrown at the brothers, who had not yet forgotten their language and family, and were pushed to the east. "- I SHARE THIS POINT OF VIEW. Not because the author voiced this, but because he himself came to the same conclusion a long time ago. Even more can be said: The so-called "anti-Russian project", or rather anti-racial project. - he was "unleashed" since the Santorini catastrophe, the subsequent capture and enslavement of Morea ("Spartans and Helots" as the apotheosis of enslavement) and the remnants of the Minoan state and the "Trojan" war. Russens in Northern Italy are a large fragment of the Minoan state, and not a "settlement" of Aeneas' refugees. They always run to their relatives. Especially considering the circumstances that the Hittites also soon "ordered to live long", the Trojan heirs of the Minoans had nowhere to go. And the sea? More precisely, the sea? - The sea was the second home for the carriers of this culture.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 22 March 2016 09: 48
      +1
      Not otherwise anti-Russian conspiracy began Sargon of Acad
    2. ver_
      ver_ 22 March 2016 12: 42
      -10%
      ... the Roman Empire is a myth .. this creation is written off - Gaius Julius Caesar - is deducted from Yuri George Dolgoruky Caesar for he is the eldest son of Vsevolod; Alexander the Great - Alexander Nevsky .. Maria Medici (France, Queen Mother) deducted from Sophia Paleolog .. History is not a science (to this day) ...
      1. Cartalon
        Cartalon 22 March 2016 13: 41
        +1
        Notes on the Gali war Dolgoruky wrote?
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 22 March 2016 14: 13
          +2
          Quote: Cartalon
          Notes on the Gali war Dolgoruky wrote?

          Heresy! Vsevolod the Big Nest wrote notes about the Gallic War. Dolgoruky wrote the Iliad.
          1. Chisayna
            Chisayna 22 March 2016 14: 59
            +1
            Bear with it, the passage of spring will pass and the aggravation of many.
          2. Seal
            Seal 23 March 2016 23: 27
            +1
            To hell with him, with Dolgoruky. But who in history has at least once hinted that he held in his hands or saw from afar the original "Notes on the Gallic War", probably written by Caesar's hand, right? Or do you think Caesar did not write, but dictated his notes? Who? When? And where is at least one original line of "Notes"? Who was the first and he probably was the last who saw at least a line from the original?
        2. Seal
          Seal 23 March 2016 23: 27
          +1
          Notes on the Gali war Dolgoruky wrote?
          To hell with him, with Dolgoruky. But who in history has at least once hinted that he held in his hands or saw from afar the original "Notes on the Gallic War", probably written by Caesar's hand, right? Or do you think Caesar did not write, but dictated his notes? Who? When? And where is at least one original line of "Notes"? Who was the first and he probably was the last who saw at least a line from the original?
  • qulight
    qulight 22 March 2016 09: 53
    +2
    Russians lived throughout Europe and subsequently began to be driven out to the East? and who began to displace them then?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 22 March 2016 11: 03
      0
      This very thing is interesting! They lived everywhere ... and then them, those who lived, it is not clear who began to supplant them? But how did the Slavs or the Russians allow this?
      1. ver_
        ver_ 22 March 2016 12: 46
        +2
        ... and you look at Ukraine and you will understand who is crowding out, language forbids, invents a story for yourself ..
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 22 March 2016 21: 32
          -3
          That is, the Russians were new? And the locals crowded them out? As in Ukraine - your example! Or were the Russes local, and the newcomers crowded them out? And who then gave the money for crowding out? USA?
  • Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 22 March 2016 09: 56
    +3
    Porridge, not an article. Minus not trembling hand.
  • Danyiar kusain
    Danyiar kusain 22 March 2016 10: 03
    +2
    What does the author smoke?
  • Starshina wmf
    Starshina wmf 22 March 2016 10: 04
    +1
    A little more, and dill will scoff at us because of such "historians".
    1. Gomunkul
      Gomunkul 22 March 2016 12: 44
      +2
      A little more, and dill will scoff at us because of such "historians".
      A little more and the ukropitek version of history is recognized all over the world as true, and after 200 years no one will remember that it was nonsense, because the winners write history. You and I are witnessing how a part of the Russian people, with the help of external forces, "Germanize" them into another people, and the Ukrainians sincerely believe that they are not Russians.
  • Velizariy
    Velizariy 22 March 2016 10: 17
    0
    Quote: qulight
    Russians lived throughout Europe and subsequently began to be driven out to the East? and who began to displace them then?

    These proto-veterusses from Venus, sorry from Mars, from Venus are proto-Ukrainians, they also say that Christians killed 9 million of the population of Russia from 12 in a very short time, they say genocide! What kind of nonsense must one be to believe in it and rush about it like a written bag? Who killed, besides manually, such a number of people ??? Indeed, at that time every man had a weapon and could use it! And having learned about such genocide, the army would quickly have gathered and laden offenders, moreover, Prince Vladimir accused of this didn’t have many soldiers, a maximum of 2-3 thousand, and it turns out that they beat 30-40 opponents! This is power! super warriors! But those who did not accept Christianity, whom they slaughtered in millions, are there any vegetables? Yes, for such an attitude to the ancestors it is necessary to drive such proto-vetorusses from Russia! And where at that time were all the notorious pagan gods who allowed this to happen to their people? There are two options: either they, these gods, simply turned their backs and they didn’t care from the death of millions, they got phenomenal indifference and cruelty, or they simply could not resist the Christians! In any case, they have no strength in touch. This is how to humiliate our ancestors in order to talk about the destruction by millions of such strong and glorious warriors as the Slavs !?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 22 March 2016 10: 48
      +4
      And what is extremely humiliating is that our ancestors in all such articles look like sheer idiots: at first they spread as widely as possible - they were smart enough. Then some of the "enemies" from under them began to deceive them, drive them out, instill in them a "bad story", and they are mugs, they endured all this, demolished, and only wiped off the snot. So just right to say - terpily. And all of them were deceived from time immemorial! And for some reason ALL the Romanovs pursued a pro-Western policy. What is it about Mikhail Romanov, Alexei Mikhailovich, and the same Peter, if the lands were expanding? That is, first we were squeezed under the "pro-Russian" rulers, and then under the "pro-Western kings" we began to expand again ... to the West and the East, and for some reason we had to replace history. Why replace if they were expanding anyway?
      1. Mr. Hipster
        Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 51
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        That is, first we were squeezed under the "pro-Russian" rulers, and then under the "pro-Western kings" we began to expand again ... to the West and the East, and for some reason we had to replace history. Why replace if they were expanding anyway?

        Brilliantly! hi
        And also "for some reason" the Western armies were beaten - it is simply incomprehensible to the mind, how can it be! fellow
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Aleksander
        Aleksander 22 March 2016 12: 32
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Then some of the "enemies" from under them started them deceive, force out, inspire they had a "bad story", and they were mugs, they endured it all, took it down, and only wiped away the snot. So just right to say - terpily


        Well said! And they also love such terms in relation to Russia: her"incited", "incited", "vented" etc.-just like an unreasonable mongrel ...
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Velizariy
        Velizariy 22 March 2016 13: 22
        +1
        Paradox ...) But, people believe ... They want to be the most exceptional, although this idea is as old as the world.
      6. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. 22 March 2016 15: 03
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        "enemies" began to deceive them, drive them out, instill in them a "bad story", and they - mugs, they endured all this, demolished, and only wiped off the snot. So just right to say - terpily. And all of them were deceived from time immemorial! And for some reason ALL the Romanovs pursued a pro-Western policy. What is it about Mikhail Romanov, Alexei Mikhailovich, and the same Peter, if the lands were expanding?

        1. Example. Ukrainians only 25 years old "only wiped off the snot" - and that's it, history has been rewritten.
        The enemy should not be underestimated. Demagoguery, casuistry, probabilism are not swear words, but scientific disciplines among the Jesuits. Too often, you can already hear, incl. on Russian TV, "fighters" from there, lying not just out of love for the art of lying, but lying according to their science, with the help of "scientific" techniques developed in the West.

        2. How is it that under Mikhail Romanov "the land expanded"? And who gave Smolensk, CHERNIGOV and many others. other Russian lands to the Poles, and the Swedes gave so much land that Sweden closed the "window to Europe" that existed earlier?

        I believe that those who do not know the subject of "history", at least within the limits of the school course for a C, have no right to criticize Samsonov. The point of view must be supported by at least minimal knowledge.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 22 March 2016 15: 36
          +1
          Gave Smolensk? Without a war ... just like that under the agreement - "I give you our land, take it and volodya ..." or what? And what did Alexei Mikhailovich give? Kolomna and Moscow with its suburbs? And as for the enemy ... where did the enemies come from, and even the Jesuits (!) If the Russians were around? "From under them?" Got wound up? And do not confuse the time of the confrontation of the "Institute of Red Professors" with the graduates of Yale and Cambridge - these are, you know, different centuries!
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          The point of view should be supported by at least minimal knowledge.
          Can I criticize? 270 articles here, 10 in History, 4 books in England ... is there a minimum level or not?
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. 22 March 2016 16: 56
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            4 books in England

            Mr. English writer, excuse me generously that I have touched upon periods of Russian history previously unknown to you. In the format of the message under the article IN I can not give you systematic knowledge on the following topics:
            1) "how" under Mikhail Romanov vast Russian lands from Chernigov to Korela were lost;
            2) where did the Jesuits and their bloody role in Russian fate come from.
            Moreover, in some incomprehensible way you also brought "red professors" to them.
            And it’s not my task.

            PS. Your answer about the Jesuits reminded me of the famous Bandera's: "Where did you see the Banderaites?"
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 22 March 2016 21: 36
              0
              It is customary to give a specific answer to a specific question! Is it possible or impossible?
  • unknown
    unknown 22 March 2016 10: 23
    +2
    According to Western European scholars, Russians, Poles, Germans are one people. Genetically. And there is no admixture of Tatar-Mongolian blood in Russians.
    The people are one, and the languages ​​are different. That's just when the language separation began.
    Latin appears in the late Middle Ages. English during the time of Shakespeare.
    Single German, with completely artificial pronunciation, in 1902.

    The demarcation began in the era of the so-called Reformation, with the emergence and establishment of the "zh.id.o.v.s.k.o. heresy" - the religion of merchants, Protestantism.
    It overlapped with the dynastic confusion. The connection between the so-called oprichnina, further unrest and the Thirty Years War in Europe is completely undeservedly ignored. New religious centers tore the united state. As a result of the Civil War, the old center was replaced by a religious color - the eastern provinces captured Constantinople.
    But the final blow to Russian history was dealt by the first Romanov-Peter. The occupation of Russia by the Westerners began.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 22 March 2016 10: 28
      +5
      But what did Virgil write, if there was no Latin?
      1. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 22 March 2016 11: 57
        +3
        Judging by the NH - he wrote in Old Slavonic, and then "translated into Latin" (just like V. Nabokov - wrote to himself in Russian, moved to the States and began to write in English)
      2. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 22 March 2016 11: 57
        0
        Judging by the NH - he wrote in Old Slavonic, and then "translated into Latin" (just like V. Nabokov - wrote to himself in Russian, moved to the States and began to write in English)
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 22 March 2016 10: 49
      +2
      And who inflicted a final blow? Misha Romanov? And what was this blow expressed in?
  • Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 22 March 2016 10: 40
    +7
    Well, just some kind of star! Alexander apparently didn’t think enough of srach on 700 posts in a similar branch - so he got one more Temko !!! I myself am a Russian patriot, but I have a negative attitude to pseudoscientific speculations!

    - The Old Russian state was a single Eurasian empire, which included a standing army - the Horde, which consisted of a professional military, and a civilian unit that did not have a standing army. The notorious tribute (Horde exit), familiar to us from the traditional presentation of history, was simply a state tax within Russia for the maintenance of the regular army - the Horde.
    Yes, Kievan Rus entered through the conquest into a single Horde state, but at the first opportunity and left it! It was an ALIEN state for our ancestors, we LATER, until the Horde, had our own!

    There was no conquest of Europe; the Rus were the indigenous (indigenous) population of Europe, since they had been living in Europe since ancient times. Our ancestors - wends, venets, veins, vandals, crows-ravens, rugi-horns, Pelasgians, races, etc. have lived in Europe since ancient times.
    The author confuses ethnonyms, has no idea about ancient history and genetics. Vandals for example have a clear Germanic binding. And the proto-Greek Pelsagi then which side to the Russians and the Slavs then?

    Quote: Pomoryanin
    how could settlement from the west go if there was a glacier, but it wasn’t in Eastern Siberia and Asia?
    Excuse me, are we talking about any period in history? the article seems to be talking about the Horde time!
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 22 March 2016 10: 44
      +5
      For Fomenkovites, the whole story of 300 years fits at its maximum, so it’s not important to talk about what period
      1. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 08
        0
        This they believe is a reliable story (when Dionysus Petavius ​​died - 17th century) - the chronological changes stopped.
      2. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 08
        0
        This they believe is a reliable story (when Dionysus Petavius ​​died - 17th century) - the chronological changes stopped.
    2. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 10: 48
      +1
      Quote: Warrior2015
      Excuse me, are we talking about any period in history? the article seems to be talking about the Horde time!

      The article is about the Horde time? I didn’t notice.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 22 March 2016 11: 11
        +2
        Everything, everything is against us! And for what, Lord, all of us so fiercely eaten up? Probably for our antiquity, without which, alas, not to sleep, not with .. be. Dad and the king, French radicals and German police officers, together with historians, Freemasons and Jewish masons, Catholics and Protestants, the British and French, and everything, everyone just does that they don’t sleep, they don’t eat, they don’t create works of art, they just sit (all time and, century after century!), they sit and think about how to spoil the Russians a little more - to replace history, not to give money, not to sell plants, everything, to deprive everything ... some kind of nonsense turned out, right? If all of the above briefly retell.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 22 March 2016 12: 56
          0
          ..no who wondered why in Russia kings = emperors, but in France, England, Poland and other kings?
          1. Sweles
            Sweles 22 March 2016 13: 01
            -2
            Quote: ver_
            .no who wondered why in Russia kings = emperors, but in France, England, Poland and other kings?


            your version?
            1. ver_
              ver_ 23 March 2016 19: 26
              0
              ..because the King is appointed Emperor ..
              Khan Batuy = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich gave the king of France a label on the reign ..
  • Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 22 March 2016 10: 59
    +5
    "... believe that there is a system of historical doubles, when some events are repeated at another time and in another region. ..."
    - Well, it’s immediately clear that Alexander didn’t get a grasp of the works of the Financial and Social Sciences, but simply found out from somewhere. Fin and Finn have no speech - about another time, doubles in another region, but only - the emergence of phantom doubles in the texts of DIFFERENT authors.
    It's a little different, right? It is as if Lenin on a canvas embroidered by the Chinese looks like a Chinese.
    ...
    "..." New chronology "by Fomenko and Nosovsky raises many questions and, apparently, is mistaken ...."
    A lot of questions - and - are wrong ... wassat Something here does not fit with one another.
    Many questions - let's clarify.
    Mistaken - let's drop it.
    And all in a bunch - some kind of vinaigrette.
    Again the author hastened.
    ...
    I'm not defending the New Chronology.
    Just to the point of stupefaction TIRED that everyone who has not even read their books begins to GIVENLY yell that all this is wrong.
    In addition, Anatoly Fomenko is the author of a mathematical method for the study of narrative texts.
    Mathematical. Method. As an academician of topology in mathematics. Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Nothing, or how?
    What is a mathematical topology, you know?
    ...
    And the rest of the work is Tatyana Fomenko and Nosovsky Gleb.
    Keep in mind that the academician just cannot be discarded from the method used in books.
    ...
    So, if you are not an academician, it would be better to shut up and not bark at a person in vain. So no?
    .
    In general, the cycle of articles by Alexander Samsonov speaks only about one thing.
    The author knows how to put letters into words and words in sentences. Graphomania, simply put.
    But what’s connected - you won’t wait.
    ...
    All the steam goes to the whistle.
    Sadness.
  • Mr. Hipster
    Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 11: 20
    +1
    Concrete removal of the brain - drooling to the knee wassat
    But one thought haunts me - proving that "Russia is the homeland of elephants", that specific supporters of these hypotheses want to prove to us ?!
    Did "Ancient Rusichi" know medicine and did operations, maybe they knew mathematics and physics and built gigantic cities, or maybe (what the hell is not kidding - they flew to Mars !!!) Nuclear Power Plants ?! wassat
    Well, that is, 1000 years of the history of Russia or 100000 years - what is the difference and benefit for TODAY'S DAY ?!
    1. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 16
      +3
      Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
      what is the difference and benefit for TODAY'S DAY ?!

      For TODAY’s day, it’s important to know your ancestral roots, SELF-sufficiency and self-confidence, in your RIGHT - as opposed to self-eating, self-flagellation and groveling before a rotten mercantile west, which are conducted through the traditional historical paradigm.
    2. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 17
      0
      Quote: Mr. HIPSTER
      what is the difference and benefit for TODAY'S DAY ?!

      For TODAY’s day, it’s important to know your ancestral roots, SELF-sufficiency and self-confidence, in your RIGHT - as opposed to self-eating, self-flagellation and groveling before a rotten mercantile west, which are conducted through the traditional historical paradigm.
      1. Mr. Hipster
        Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 13: 01
        0
        Quote: OldWiser
        as opposed to self-indulgence, self-flagellation and creeping before the rotten mercantile west, which are held through the traditional historical paradigm.

        oh my goodness you are what you are carrying! wassat
        What other "huckster west" ?! What a groveling ?!
        Do you think there have never been merchants in Russia ?! Yes, Russia originally arose on the trade route!
        Or do you enumerate everything that was invented in the West and what you use - maybe this will also make it possible to consider that you are "groveling in front of the West" ?! fellow
  • heruv1me
    heruv1me 22 March 2016 11: 38
    +1
    Now he will feel sick, again Fomenko, again Nosovsky, again Samsonov. How much can this heresy be published here? Once again I checked the subject of the site, where does the fantasy and alternative reality? There are serious people here, serious questions are being discussed, dear Samsonov A. If you have any new, scientifically proven historical facts, please state them, do not drag what you want.
    1. Mr. Hipster
      Mr. Hipster 22 March 2016 13: 03
      +1
      Quote: heruv1me
      Here are serious people, discussing serious issues, dear Samsonov A.

      Apparently, this is already "in the past" lol
      If not long ago they gave advantages for criticizing the Fomenkoids, but today they give disadvantages, then tomorrow they will be "kicked in the face"! laughing
      1. guzik007
        guzik007 22 March 2016 13: 46
        +4
        If only recently for criticism of the Fomenkoids there were advantages here, but today they give disadvantages, then tomorrow they will "give in the face"! laughing
        -------------------------------------------
        And for this I must say a special thanks to the rudeness of SVELESA.: =)
        Discredited method.irod!: =)
  • Lord blacwood
    Lord blacwood 22 March 2016 11: 40
    +1
    Author, do you even believe in this nonsense.
    1) Merchants really moved freely, but tell me, what empire will allow the robbery of merchants when they paid taxes. Secondly, all the robbers went to the service of the Mongols, since it was easier for them to rob conquered peoples.
    2) The Mongols fought with the Europeans, trying to conquer them. And besides, they carried out the testament of Genghis Khan, who wanted to conquer the European part of the continent.
    3) You are a poor military man, as everyone understands that the postal service is needed for effective communication. After all, the Mongols should have known what was happening in Russia.
    4) Where did you get the idea that the Germans considered the influence of the "steppes" on the Slavs as a development of cruelty in the latter. I've never heard anything like it. There is no such thing in the official history. And Europeans at that time were no less cruel.
    5) Europe was part of the Russian Empire, this is complete nonsense. Our religion, architecture, culture are different. And where are the records of contemporaries.
    6) How could Russians inhabit all of Eurasia, if many were completely different from us. Are the Chinese, Indians, Arabs also Russian, because one kind of them speaks of the absence of any kindred relationship with the Russians. But what about the languages, or the Russians wrote immediately in Arabic and Chinese, and did not have a single language. After all, their languages ​​are not like ours.
    7) Where are the traces of the Russian empire, where are the buildings, where are the wonders of the world, has it really all "mysteriously" disappeared without a trace?
    As a result, all your evidence is not substantiated, while there are numerous Arab, Chinese documents that confirmed the existence of the Mongol empire, but there is not a word about the Russians. And the Siberian peoples are unlike us. So all this is complete fiction.
    1. Chisayna
      Chisayna 22 March 2016 14: 09
      +1
      Here. It is necessary to cover the excavations in Siberia. And then Por-Bazhyn will be declared an ancient Russian city.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 23 March 2016 19: 46
      +2
      ... for the gifted: Mongolia was formed in 1920.
      With what hangover could the Mongols appear in the 13th century? What are you writing about? The Mongols did not exist then even in the project of the Lord God. And no one has yet invented time machines to transfer armies into the past for 7 centuries ..
      Are there adequate people on the forum? ...
  • Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 22 March 2016 11: 41
    +1
    Quote: Cartalon
    Not otherwise anti-Russian conspiracy began Sargon of Acad

    Truly so!

    Although honestly, not everything is so simple in reality ...

    But damn well, what are the Atlanteans?

    And what kind of Russians in ancient times were always "terpila"? the author himself is not funny and not ashamed of his ancestors? all that oppressed them, all that commanded us.

    And despite all this, our ancestors still made 1 \ 6 part of the land by their state!
  • V.ic
    V.ic 22 March 2016 11: 42
    +5
    The repeated mention in vain of the ever-memorable Fomenko and Nosovsky is already beginning to bother. To sweeping critics I address a small excerpt. G.V. Nosovsky. A.T. Fomenko. "THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST." WHEN THE APOCALIPSIS WAS WRITTEN
    “I must say that when in 1992 we tried to take this manuscript from the State Library, we encountered significant difficulties. It was like this. One of the authors (G.V. Nosovsky) was at that time registered in the Department of Manuscripts. By the way, It was not easy to enroll there. Such an opportunity appeared only thanks to the then head of the Department of Manuscripts V.Ya.Deryagin. Having a library card of the Department of Manuscripts, GV Nosovsky asked to give him a manuscript with the number of f.256.31. In response, he was told, The Department of Manuscripts has a rule that if a manuscript was taken by someone and left on the storage shelf, then it will lie there for FOUR MONTHS (!), during which it will not be given to anyone else. Fortunately, then in the Department of Manuscripts, a friend of G.V. Nosovsky, Maria Borisova, was working on the issue. She kindly agreed to give the manuscript for a brief review. When the manuscript was finally issued and we saw its form, we were amazed us.
    It turned out that over the past 20 (!) Years she has been handed out to the hands of ONLY ONE AND SAME PERSON. It was enough for him to appear in the library ONCE ONCE IN FOUR MONTHS in order to fully secure the manuscript FOR ALL THE LIFE. And before that, about the same time, the manuscript was assigned to another historian. Etc.
    A striking picture opened before our eyes. It turns out that historians do not need to make any “inconvenient” manuscript for them completely inaccessible to the public. Formally, she will be listed in the library, supposedly in the public domain, but she will not be given out to anyone. Since she has been working with her - and for the last twenty years - such and such a historian. And the fact that this historian, FOR TWENTY YEARS did not bother to publish the manuscript, does not matter. The manuscript still will not be given out.
    From our point of view, a similar order, which existed in the Department of Manuscripts of the State Library until 1992 and probably still exists there, actually means an UNAUTHORIZED PROHIBITION of access by "outsiders" to one or another old source. And this prohibition, as we understand, did not arise by accident. It is simply NECESSARY for historians. Who are AFRAID of admitting "outsiders" to unpublished codices. Because they understand that there you can read a lot of things that sharply contradict the Scaligerian version of history. In the defense of which - whether it is true or not in independence - some historians probably see the meaning of their existence. "
    I read the book itself and I consider the methodology for substantiating historical dates used by the authors to be correct.
    1. Lord blacwood
      Lord blacwood 22 March 2016 12: 13
      +3
      If the manuscript was hidden, then why is it on the list of the State Library, and if there is one and hide it, then why do not they change the names of those who took it, or those who hid it did not think about it.
    2. Cartalon
      Cartalon 22 March 2016 12: 13
      +3
      I am very happy for you, this does not negate anything that is said against Fomenko’s theory, the texts can of course be faked, but I doubt the column of Troyan, with respect.
      1. Seal
        Seal 23 March 2016 23: 43
        +1
        but I doubt the convoy of Troyan

        Firstly, the column can be incorrectly dated.
        Secondly, the column itself contains only stucco figures. Not inscriptions.
        Only one inscription on the plate below
        "senatvs popvlvsqve romanvs imp. caesari divi nervae f. nervae traiano avg. germ. dacico pontif. maximo trib. pot. XVII imp. VI cos VI pp ad declarandvm qvantae altivdinis mons et locvs tant ibvs sit egestvs" (in early Roman script "J and U" were replaced by "I and V")

        "The Senate and the people of Rome [erected this column] Emperor Caesar Nerve Trajan Augustus, son of the divine Nerva, Germanic, Dacian, Great Pontiff, endowed with the power of the tribune of the people for the 17th time, the Emperor for the 6th time, the Consul for the 6th time To the Father of the Fatherland, so that it could be seen how high the hill was dug down to make way for the construction of these significant structures. "


        That is, from the inscription itself, we simply learn about a certain Nerva, the son of Nerva. And if there were no writers' fantasies, then our "knowledge" (what we call knowledge) would have remained at the level "yes, there is a column erected in honor of Nerva, the son of Nerva."

        Fourth. Actually about the tablet.
        4.1. When did the tablet appear? Immediately with the column or sweat? This is unknown!
        4.2. What was the inscription on the plate — the one that was drawn now or otherwise? This is also unknown.

        About 10 years ago I was in Kaliningrad (Koenigsberg) and saw that there, at the Cathedral, the letters changed during the restoration. That is, I clearly see (even cryptographed) that the letters are updated (well, not everywhere, but in the percentage of 5-6 letters) not in old cutouts, but in new ones.

        So what do we actually know from the column of Trajan itself, which cannot be faked?
    3. Sweles
      Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 32
      -1
      Quote: V.ic
      I read the book itself and I consider the methodology for substantiating historical dates used by the authors to be correct.


      I didn’t read this book, in another work FN read such that they tried to get Isak Newton’s work on history to the library of the United States Congress, then they were given this book for the first time, but there was a refusal ...
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 22 March 2016 13: 43
        +1
        Quote: Sveles
        did not read this book

        ... so read it. At school I was fond of astronomy. Learned the view of the starry sky. A primitive refractor observed mountains on the moon. Book Vorontsov-Velyaminov / textbook of astronomy for the 10th grade / read in the eighth. This I mean that I understand what the authors were talking about, namely the location of the planets in the signs of the zodiac. So their methodology, combined with modern computer programs, makes it possible to "tie" a specific celestial picture to a specific year. Read, you will not be left "at a loss"!
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 22 March 2016 12: 16
    0
    Excavations in the Valley of the Kings should be stopped. Archaeologists from St. Petersburg should be expelled, but first, let the burial mounds that have been excavated be back. There are no European Scythians in the Valley of the Kings and this has never happened. This is the local population, it’s joking. It throws the bodies of homeless people from the Kyzyl morgue to excavate .Por-Bazhyn, surrounded by minefields, and even there, the Caucasians are excavated.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon 22 March 2016 12: 20
      0
      We got to Egypt already, Europioids built the pyramids mean, and all Egyptian art is fake, and we write
      1. Chisayna
        Chisayna 22 March 2016 12: 35
        0
        Valley of the Kings, is not only in Egypt.
        1. Cartalon
          Cartalon 22 March 2016 13: 00
          0
          Oh, what are you talking about, but did someone once consider Scythians to be Mongoloids?
          1. Chisayna
            Chisayna 22 March 2016 13: 06
            -1
            I don’t care. My friends and I will write our story.
    2. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 22 March 2016 12: 23
      +1
      In the Middle Ages, grave diggers and abductors of corpses were hanged and burned. Do you think archaeologists need it too?
      1. Chisayna
        Chisayna 22 March 2016 12: 41
        -1
        No, why so. Let the archaeologists from St. Petersburg, along with the homeless people, look for color flowers in the dumps of the Lena oblast. So they will be more useful.
    3. vitalm
      vitalm 22 March 2016 13: 57
      +2
      You are raving. If Caucasians are found in Asia, this does not mean that they are thrown. Nobody has canceled genetics yet. After all, the Tuvans themselves, the alien people, and after 400 years did not live there. Before Tuvans, Scythians, Uighurs, Kyrgyz lived on the territory of Tuva. Faith is shamanism, Buddhism is the faith of lamas, ordinary Tuvans do not know the canons or the philosophy of Buddhism itself. Buddhism was brought to Tuva together with the Manjurian invaders in the 17th century.
      1. Chisayna
        Chisayna 22 March 2016 14: 47
        +1
        There is a niche with a statue of Buddha on the Sayano-Shushensky vdhr. Archaeologists estimate its age to be about 13 (thirteenth) centuries. And you say Buddhism was brought to Tuva in the 17th century. Whoever raves, you or archaeologists, or you, together with them.
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 March 2016 21: 59
          +1
          .. there is a niche with a statue Buddhas Archaeologists estimate her age to be about 13 (thirteenth) centuries.

          But what are you not completely saying, huh?
          We read: http://plusinform.ru/main/3718-medlennaya-smert-buddy-na-gore.html
          Firstly, this is not a statue, but image.
          But that is not the point.
          It reads:
          But the question of dating the rock sanctuary is more complicated. Officially, it is believed that the niche was made in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries A.D. The head of the Service for the Protection of Cultural Heritage of Tuva, Ulyana Bicheldei, believes that these figures are determined only on the basis that during this period there was another spread of Buddhism in the territory of Tuva.

          And what do we have of them? And we have the fact that you are with this particular statue, which turned out to be an image, to refute the version that "Buddhism was brought to Tuva in the 17th century".
          But in fact, it turns out that this image is dated to the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries only because someone (empty and authoritative) believes that it is during this period there was another spread of Buddhism in the territory of Tuva.
          In total, you have applied, well, just the most convincing argumentation, from the series: "The ideas of Marx are true because they are immortal. And they are immortal because they are true." lol
          But that is not all.
          It turns out there are other dating options. And it goes without saying that even more "ancient".

          The TIGI expert group this year, after the work done, gave its assessment - the VI-IX century A.D. - that is, the ancient Turkic period.


          By the way, during the study, the institute staff determined that the farthest figures from the Buddha - locapals - were carved in Chinese style. An image similar to Tuvan is also found in the Middle Kingdom. There it dates from the XNUMXrd-XNUMXth century BC. And Ulyana Bichelday believes that the cultural monument in Tuva is perhaps even more ancient and made before our era.

          Although this is all just an assumption and there is no exact answer, it is clear that the monument is ancient and unique in any case - there are no such works in Russia. In the world there were only three such sculptures - in China, Afghanistan and Tuva. In Afghanistan, the image of the deity was blown up by the Taliban, and in Tuva, the bas-relief is destroyed from year to year under the influence of the water of the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station.


          And only in the very last paragraph the author could not remain silent that all is just assumptions and there is no exact answer, but the monument is in any case ancient and unique
          And this is the true truth. Even if the image is only 200 years old - this monument is also ancient . And unique
          1. Chisayna
            Chisayna 28 March 2016 00: 46
            0
            A meaningless set of phrases pulled from the Internet and everything. They did not prove anything, where is the doc.
      2. Chisayna
        Chisayna 22 March 2016 14: 55
        0
        400 years ago, there was no trace of Minusinsk and its inhabitants. So you are also a newcomer, right? And Kyrgyz-Kyrgyz still live in Tuva and Krai. Where is the proof that the Tuvans came to Tuva 400 years ago. And where came. Not from Tuba by chance.
  • Loki_2
    Loki_2 22 March 2016 12: 25
    +5
    Ahhh ... Take that person away from the microphone.
    The article is a pronounced anti-scientific nonsense. In the previous article of the author, I took his rhetoric for a harmless "provocation". However, in this article he was fully revealed. Fomenko и Nosovsky here are his idols. Excellent theme of the unscientific theory of these characters is discussed here.
    and here
    Already the fact that such things are being discussed, and not just thrown into the trash, disturbs me greatly. Apparently the topic of popularization of science among citizens is extremely important. Otherwise, we will soon agree on the Atlanteans and Lemurians, etc.
    1. Sweles
      Sweles 22 March 2016 12: 51
      -2


      Tatar-Mongol yoke...
  • ksv36
    ksv36 22 March 2016 13: 05
    0
    Quote: Pomoryanin
    By m

    Quote: Danyiar Kusain
    What does the author smoke?

    Quote: Starshina wmf
    A little more, and dill will scoff at us because of such "historians".

    Ivanes who do not remember kinship. It's disgusting to read.

    Smoke it, for starters.
    http://tartaria.name
    http://www.slavianin.ru
    http://peshera.org/index.html
    http://www.kramola.info
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 13: 12
      +1
      Quote: ksv36
      Ivanes who do not remember kinship. It's disgusting to read.

      I'm just not addicted to drugs for changing consciousness.
    2. todaygoodday
      todaygoodday 23 March 2016 08: 00
      0
      Too many divorced keepers of secret knowledge that are known only to them. This is ridiculous.
  • drilled
    drilled 22 March 2016 13: 15
    +4
    There are always a lot of such "historians" in transitional periods. The mud in the whirlpool always rises to the surface. Like the Ruin now. Let the author honor the classics who worked with primary sources: Tatishchev, Karamzin, Solovyov, Kostomarov, or, at worst, Gumilyov, and not Wikipedia. Gumilev writes very simply, just for such Internet "historians" will do.
    I would advise site administrators to be choosier - serious people read you.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 22 March 2016 13: 55
      +2
      Quote: Burieway
      Let the author revere the classics who worked with the primary sources: Tatishchev, Karamzin, Solovyov, Kostomarov or, at worst, Gumilyov, and not Wikipedia.

      The idea is quite sensible. Here are just the first of your "five" clearly resting on the sidelines for not quite a historian, and Messrs. Solovyov and Kostomarov are in the shadow of Karamzin, interpreting the ideas of the "master" to the incomprehensible. Compare the internecine strife of the era of the Red-Sun Vladimir / first / and Yaroslav the Wise / second / ... Compare the plots: this is KALKA. Next, compare the era of Ivan III and Ivan IV, in terms of "appeasement" of Pskov and Novgorod. Maybe Messrs. Nosovsky and Fomenko are not so wrong?
      1. drilled
        drilled 22 March 2016 14: 20
        +2
        Well, Nestor, like Lavrentiy, was not a historian either. They are chroniclers who were the first and closest to the events described to describe the history of Russia. Did you read Tatishchev? He is rightfully the first historian to have studied the works from the Greeks to his present day and put them together in a system. Why is he not a historian? And reading it is difficult simply because of the old language.
        As for the newly minted pseudo-historians. How to clarify ... Here's what you need to do to get an Oscar? To remove "Only Old Men Go to Battle"? Nope. Need to shoot about the fagot. Negro slaughtered. Or a Jew under occupation. And it is better that all together: a Jewish Negro in the occupation with a gay. That's when you get an Oscar. New historians follow the same path - break everything, all fools, no Yoke. Gumilev, by the way, approached the question a little more mildly - he believed that it was not Igo, but an alliance between the Mongols and the Russian principalities, mutually beneficial, in connection with the expansion of the Lithuanians into southern Russia.
        1. Seal
          Seal 23 March 2016 23: 50
          +1
          Did you read Tatishchev?

          First, he is not the first. Tell me, how fundamentally different is the history of Tatishchev from Synopsis Gisel, who wrote almost 100 years before Tatishchev?
          And secondly, if the story of Tatischev does not differ fundamentally from the Synopsis of Gisel, who wrote almost 100 before Tatishchev, then the question is - do we read the story of Tatischev himself when we read "History of Tatishchev"?
          Here is the same problem with Lomonosov. He almost fought to blood with his colleagues at the Academy, the Germans, who, according to Lomonosov, distorted Russian history. And how do you read the story on which the "History of Lomonosov" is now written - this is how the question arises - why did Lomonosov actually work so hard? After all, his story is no different from the German Millerovskaya?
      2. Cartalon
        Cartalon 22 March 2016 15: 41
        +3
        Yeah, and the second world tracing-paper from the first, and Napoleon tracing-paper from Hitler or vice versa at them there and on dates synchronously
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 22 March 2016 18: 23
          +1
          Quote: Cartalon
          and the second world tracing-paper with the first

          Is this /? EVERYTHING? / Your knowledge of the history of the wars of the 20th century?
          Quote: Cartalon
          Napoleon tracing paper from Hitler or vice versa

          I am not going to compare the great commander and outstanding statesman of the 19th century with the puppet of the "world behind the scenes" of the 20th century.
          Quote: Cartalon
          and dates synchronously

          If you are talking about an attack on Russia / the USSR in June 1812/1941, then there is a difference of one day.
          1. Cartalon
            Cartalon 23 March 2016 06: 00
            0
            There is such a word, sarcasm.
            1. V.ic
              V.ic 23 March 2016 06: 26
              0
              Quote: Cartalon
              There is such a word, sarcasm.

              This is you Sarkozy explain.
  • Gorodovik
    Gorodovik 22 March 2016 13: 38
    +5
    Sorry but this is nonsense. pure water. After that, Rezun seems adequate. I don’t even want to write anything in rebuttal.
    I want to write a little about something else. The fact that we do not really know. In the south there is a wonderful place called Arkhyz. There are a lot of interesting things. And Zelenchuk temples. And the rock carvings of Christ. But literally 100 km downstream of the river. B. Zelenchuk in the vicinity of Art. 6 settlements with stone walls and other things were found in good condition. But about this you will not find any mention or recollections except for the scientific literature which is on the Internet a little more than not. But they are dated 5-8 centuries. But nobody is interested in digging. Everyone wants to write brilliant revelatory articles and books. After all, they do it.
  • Svyatoslav
    Svyatoslav 22 March 2016 13: 43
    +2
    Chronicles of the Russian people were destroyed since 988. First, Vladimir, this Khazar bastard, then replaced the faith of Orthodoxy, then Peter I (in the West they call it “great”), then Catherine II, then Krupskaya, the heiress and successor of the case ..,. I hope the library of Ivan the Terrible intact. Waiting in the wings. But now, finding her is like death! (Or they will burn it right away, or send it over the hill as a gift to partners, and the Russian people will not even know about it).
    History is being written now, and even earlier, by those who have sufficient financial resources to do so. In fact, history is always written to order. History has never been an exact science and never will be! If power, control of the people is the same root with him, then this people has a true story.
    All so-called Academic science is sewn with white thread. She even tied the entire history of modern civilized, so to speak, society to the dating of ancient Egypt. Which is also written on the erroneous conclusions of radiocarbon dating. What can we say about periods of millions of years.
    This is not a fallacy of academic science, but a deliberate distortion of both facts and artifacts by ridiculing, threatening, hushing up, destroying the uncomfortable and uncomfortable.
    Sidorova G.A., V.A. Chudinova, Sundakova, Sergey Danilov I advise you to read and listen. And Zadornov, in a narrative style, is trying to convey at least a little truth to the “people”. And there is nothing to him before ... Xia!
    RAS burns its libraries. And nothing ... Pivovarov is an obedient performer of “our” and overseas customer. With him, as with a goose-water.
    Is it worth it to prove to persistent "traditional and correct" historians the loyalty of their point of view? Not to overpersuade even for decades, you only hear sarcasm and insults. Ugly, where is your culture and good manners !!!
    History is always a custom-made project, if people are in power with the same root as the people, then the people have a true story.
    When they want to turn something upside down, they change the time and place of action. By rewriting, distortion, non-agreement and just lies. And so from century to century. And we get a "paradigm". It’s like a corral for cattle, you step over the fence: they will either be whipped or devoured. And these scribes have already dashed off so much that the bulk of the works itself does not even allow doubting the incorrectness of what was written. "Our" historians do not like Russians! Probably because they are not Russians themselves. For arguments, they also drag the Black Sea, they make fun of the Veles book. The evidence is as if they are discussing with fifth graders. Clever people….
    Take away the history of the people and the sculptures from it of mankurt, in two or three generations this people will not ...
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 14: 14
      -2
      Quote: Svyatoslav
      The annals of the Russian people were destroyed from 988.

      And what for ???
      1. Gomunkul
        Gomunkul 22 March 2016 14: 53
        +5
        And what for ???
        Why did the Nazis burn books in Germany? Because these books did not correspond to the ideology of National Socialism. wink
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 22 March 2016 15: 03
          +1
          Quote: Gomunkul
          Why did the Nazis burn books in Germany? Because these books did not correspond to the ideology of National Socialism.

          request That is, in Vladimir, after the 988 year, seated on the throne of Kiev, ordered to destroy all pagan or Arian books in semi-Christian Kiev, in non-Christian Novgorod, in pagan Murom, and all obeyed him? How is it this way?
          1. Gomunkul
            Gomunkul 22 March 2016 15: 15
            +3
            How is it this way?
            The exact answer is as Vladimir
            after 988, seated on the throne of Kiev, ordered to destroy all pagan or Arian books in semi-Christian Kiev, in pre-Christian Novgorod, in pagan Murom, and all obeyed him?
            I couldn’t answer it, I don’t have such facts, but if you think logically, then I’ll see an example, Ukraine is the same where Poroshenko sits in Kiev, and monuments of the Soviet era are demolished throughout Ukraine both in the west and in the east of the country . I suppose that in those days they acted similarly, time flows, but people do not change.
            1. Pomeranian
              Pomeranian 22 March 2016 15: 27
              0
              Quote: Gomunkul
              where Poroshenko sits in Kiev, and the monuments of the Soviet era are demolished throughout Ukraine, both in the west and in the east of the country

              Unsuccessful example. You completely in vain transfer tracing paper from the present to the 10 century. In Ukraine, there is none, but there is a centralized power, with a unified state ideology. Was it with Vladimir? No, even the church could not help in any way, for the same pagans rebelled in Suzdal almost in the 12 century. And if we talk about the universal literacy of the same Novgorodians, a lot had to survive to survive. Where is it? No .. Could survive among the Arabs or Persians. Where is it? No ... Nothing. Don't you find this strange?
              1. Gomunkul
                Gomunkul 22 March 2016 15: 53
                +2
                . You completely in vain carry tracing paper from modernity to the 10th century. In Ukraine, there is none, but there is a centralized power, with a unified state ideology. Was it with Vladimir?
                Those. the state was under Vladimir, but there was no government over this state. Your logic is strange.
                1. Pomeranian
                  Pomeranian 22 March 2016 16: 06
                  -1
                  Quote: Gomunkul
                  Those. the state was under Vladimir, but there was no government over this state. Your logic is strange.

                  What's so strange about her? To come once a year and collect a tribute, this was the whole "management".
                  1. Gomunkul
                    Gomunkul 22 March 2016 16: 23
                    +1
                    What's so strange about her? To come once a year and collect a tribute, this was the whole "management".
                    Does the reign of Prince Vladimir fit the definitions below?
                    VV Lazarev proposes the following definition of the state - it is “a special organization of the political power of society, which has a special coercive apparatus that expresses the will and interests of the ruling class or the whole people” [4].
                    The explanatory dictionary of the Russian language Ozhegova and Shvedova gives two meanings: “1. The main political organization of the company, carrying out its management, the protection of its economic and social structure ”and“ 2. A country under the control of a political organization protecting its economic and social structure ”
                    1. Pomeranian
                      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 16: 30
                      0
                      Quote: Gomunkul
                      Does the reign of Prince Vladimir fit the definitions below?

                      Quote, quote, and be rewarded to you. Let's include some simple logic. In the 14th century, Moscow was the capital of one of the most powerful principalities in North-Eastern Russia. One of the holy ascetics withdrew to the "desert", a remote, uninhabited place. Nowadays there is the city of Zagorsk. How in such conditions in the 10th century was carried out
                      Quote: Gomunkul
                      the political organization of society, managing it, protecting its economic and social structure
                      in order to make ALL the population (besides, hostile to the central authority due to the Byzantine-style baptism) fulfill these conditions? I do not understand.
                      1. Gomunkul
                        Gomunkul 22 March 2016 16: 42
                        +2
                        to make ALL the population (besides hostile to the central authority because of the Byzantine-style baptism) fulfill these conditions?
                        We turn on the logic: how to make the entire population fulfill the conditions you need. An example is Ukraine, it is not far from us before our eyes and in time. How does central power under Poroshenko eradicate dissent? I suppose that earlier it was even easier to fight dissent, dissenters were physically destroyed. Another example: Ottoman Turkey and the Janissaries. hi
                      2. Pomeranian
                        Pomeranian 22 March 2016 17: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: Gomunkul
                        An example is Ukraine, it is not far from us before our eyes and in time.

                        Honestly, you are tired of your Ukraine. Compare warm to soft. Is it necessary to explain that all of Ukraine can now be driven through a car for six hours and it is necessary to explain that it takes months to travel to the same Murom in the 10 century ??
                        Following your logic, under Vladimir the Red Sun of 10 on September 988 in Kiev, a decree was issued and tomorrow the governors in Novgorod, Vladimir and Chernigov accepted it for execution. And on September 11 they reported by telephone to all the towns and villages of the district chiefs belonging to the Byzantine-style Christians without exception. At the same time, the princely FSB squad monitored the execution of May ... oh! September decrees of the prince and by October all reported to Kiev on the implementation. This is YOU reasoning. You. Not taking into account the distance, the heterogeneous composition (national and religious) of the state, the lack of absolute subordination of the specific principalities to Kiev. And what is the Ottoman Empire and the Janissaries? In Istanbul, they took boilers, knocked on them, woke them up. Two months later, two will find out about this in some Tunisia. What's next?
                        And, frankly speaking, I still didn’t understand why, in your opinion, the autocratic prince, firmly seated on the throne, should clean up history and destroy documents (if there were any)? What for??
                      3. Gomunkul
                        Gomunkul 22 March 2016 18: 01
                        +4
                        Honestly, you are tired of your Ukraine. Compare warm to soft.
                        Those. the example of Ottoman Turkey and the Janissaries was not interesting to you?
                        And, frankly speaking, I still didn’t understand why, in your opinion, the autocratic prince, firmly seated on the throne, should clean up history and destroy documents (if there were any)? What for??

                        Examples of why cultural monuments and storage media are destroyed above did not tell you anything?

                        And for information: the Khmer Rouge there were only 30 000 people, and they captured the whole country.
                      4. Pomeranian
                        Pomeranian 23 March 2016 09: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Gomunkul
                        Those. the example of Ottoman Turkey and the Janissaries was not interesting to you?

                        No better than the example of Ukraine. For example, the Tunisian ruler could put with the device on the decision of the Big Sofa, if it did not suit him with something. I repeat to you: the power until the century 15-16 was purely nominal and for the most part was limited to receiving tribute from subservient areas. There were no restrictions (well, maybe, except for religious ones and even with a big stretch) the central government could not impose simply physically on the population. I hope this is enough?
                        Quote: Gomunkul
                        And for information: the Khmer Rouge there were only 30 000 people, and they captured the whole country.

                        The Khmer Rouge had automatic weapons, modern communications and support for the mono-ethnic population at the initial stage.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                    3. The comment was deleted.
                    4. Pomeranian
                      Pomeranian 23 March 2016 09: 26
                      0
                      Quote: but still
                      Even with Olga Gregory ...

                      I see that the Bulgarian theme is acute and burning for you. However, I note that the pagans were more likely to accept Arianism, since it did not essentially differ from their beliefs. And the first Aryan Christians in the territory of the so-called Kievan Rus were Goths. Moreover, what is the destruction of the Orthodox Bulgarian books, if Vladimir installed the pantheon of pagan gods, for example, in northeastern Russia, paganism felt great almost before the Mongol invasion? Example? Peter and Fevronia of Murom: a marriage between a Christian prince and the most natural pagan witch. Notice, after that there were no more pagan revolts.
                      Now returning to the topic: Vladimir converted to Byzantine Christianity and all Arians, Gentiles and others rushed to follow the orders of the heretic and Gentile to destroy books?
                      And the sweet question is: did the Byzantines also clean up the Arab and Persian annals?
                    5. The comment was deleted.
  • Lord blacwood
    Lord blacwood 22 March 2016 18: 07
    -1
    But the whole world knows about the Ukrainian past, and that Ukraine was part of the USSR. No matter how you destroy the monuments, rename the streets, the whole world knows about their past.
  • V.ic
    V.ic 22 March 2016 15: 17
    +3
    Quote: Pomoryanin
    ordered the destruction of all pagan or Arian books

    In the school on the history of the Ancient World, Qin Shi Huang was described as having forbidden all previously written sources. Whoever found something - that ended.
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 15: 29
      0
      Quote: V.ic
      Shi Huang described

      the "yellow emperor" could have given such an order, but I doubt that after the era of fighting kingdoms, the opposition ended in the country.
    2. Gomunkul
      Gomunkul 22 March 2016 15: 44
      +3
      In the school on the history of the Ancient World, Qin Shi Huang was described as having forbidden all previously written sources. Whoever found something - that ended.
      I support you, and analogies in history are found regularly. Why go far, everyone can find information about Cambodia during the reign of Po Pot and the Khmer Rouge.
      The year 1968 was rich in political events. The Prague Spring, student unrest in Paris, the Vietnam War, the intensification of the Kurdish-Iranian conflict were only part of what was happening. But the most terrible event was the creation in Cambodia of the Maoist current of the Khmer Rouge. According to the most conservative estimates, this seemingly ordinary local event cost Cambodia 3 million lives (the population of Cambodia was up to 7 million people before).

      The first stage of the experiment included the eviction of all citizens in the countryside, the abolition of commodity-money relations, the ban on education (up to the elimination of schools, especially universities), the complete ban on religions and the repression of religious figures, the ban on foreign languages, the elimination of officials and the military regime (no, not the abolition of posts - the destruction of the people themselves).
      1. Velizariy
        Velizariy 22 March 2016 17: 03
        0
        In Cambodia, PEACEFUL and UNAUTHORAL populations were killed, massively using technical means. But in Russia, this option does not roll, since at that time every healthy man was armed and had the training and also to do that the Khmer squad Vladimir could not. Plus the lack of a gunshot.
        1. Captain45
          Captain45 22 March 2016 17: 28
          +2
          Quote: Velizariy
          In Cambodia, PEACEFUL and UNAUTHORAL populations were killed, massively using technical means.

          Do you mean hoes?
        2. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 22 March 2016 17: 29
          0
          Quote: Velizariy
          But in Russia, this option does not roll, because at that time every healthy man was armed and had the training and to do the same that the Khmer squad Vladimir could not.

          The guys live by the criteria of our time. Or computer games. If the revolt of the Gentiles in Suzdal were already in the 12 century, then they did not particularly strive. But the Arians and other Nestorians did not translate into Russia for a long time, moreover, Arianism was adopted by the pagans much more often than the Roman-Byzantine version.
        3. Lord blacwood
          Lord blacwood 22 March 2016 18: 16
          0
          Pol Pot had no serious technical means. His supporters killed with hoes sharpened by palm leaves.
          1. Seal
            Seal 23 March 2016 23: 56
            0
            His supporters .. Well, not his supporters, but his troops, well armed automatic weapons, killed with hoes and palm leaves. By the way, we could also score with rods.
    3. Lord blacwood
      Lord blacwood 22 March 2016 18: 13
      0
      Qin Shi Huang ordered this in order to prove his right to power.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Seal
    Seal 23 March 2016 23: 51
    +1
    Tell me, how fundamentally the story of Tatischev differs from Gisel's "Synopsis", who wrote almost 100 before Tatishchev?
    And secondly, if the story of Tatishchev from Gisel's "Synopsis", who wrote almost 100 before Tatishchev, is not fundamentally different, then the question is - do we read the story of Tatishchev himself when we read "History of Tatishchev"?
    Here is the same problem with Lomonosov. He almost fought to blood with his colleagues at the Academy, the Germans, who, according to Lomonosov, distorted Russian history. And how do you read the story on which the "History of Lomonosov" is now written - this is how the question arises - why did Lomonosov actually work so hard? After all, his story is no different from the German Millerovskaya?
  • Lord blacwood
    Lord blacwood 22 March 2016 18: 04
    -1
    Listen to Chudinov, because Chudinov is even worse nonsense. I watched his speeches, he says Russia was all over the earth, and that the whole of Eurasia was taught by Russian culture, for example, India. But where are the traces of the empire, where are the traces of the Russians in India, China, where are such theories from, where is there even one proof? And the most important question. How did this "mysterious" empire disappear, how did its rulers allow it, and how did they manage to destroy its traces? Modern history has evidence, while Chudinov has only words.
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 22 March 2016 22: 39
      +1
      Lord Blackwood ... and what kind of traces do you expect? From the ancient empires ...
      IPhone, superKray? C-856? or Satan with Chanel in one bottle?
      ...
      Is it certain that we can recognize the technology of the ancients?
      Why did they suddenly discover Volta batteries, one to one, at the excavations in Babylon (or nearby), but did not find the composition of the galvanic liquid.
      Why do vimans fly at the base - a liquid metal shining with silver .... mercury, no?
      And mercury vapor is a powerful hallucinogen, you know?
      ..
      Well, they excavated Mohenjo-Daro ... wow, destroyed by a nuclear explosion, melted sand.
      Duc, damn it ... the sand melts and is so simple. No nuclear explosion. Magnifier ... good.
      Just like ... how a person can burn - alive, without soot and smoke .. in five seconds.
      Can you calculate the energy? Or bring Einstein’s formula to E = mC * C.
      Nothing fancy - mass and square of the speed of light - Energy at the exit.
      ...
      Traces, traces ...
      Why are they looking for traces of Russians? What did the Russians stand across for everyone?
      Sanskrit.
      Sanskrit.
      Sanskrit.
      ...
      I will become like ... idiots of new trends and say Sanskrit ... these are two terms ... or three ... or four
      San-s ... from French it can be read both as -Saint-and as-with Feeling-.
      Crete ... well ... Crete is ... the peoples of the sea, Achaeans, Dorians ... the cult of Dionysus and Hermes ... who carried culture to India.
      And before that, drunk, Hyperborean chastal.
      ...
      Add two and two ... and you will be happy.
      .
      Do not assume that I'm just kidding here.
      The whole story is built on such jokes.
      ...
      In general, read Michael Cremo, Forbidden Archeology.
      Read the links at the end of his book.
      Read I. Efremov.
      After all, read the Bhagavad-gita .... not in a swoop, but thoughtfully.
      ...
      Life will shine in a new way.
      Unusually, SO.
      Without stocks ....
  • Gorodovik
    Gorodovik 22 March 2016 22: 40
    +1
    Why “traditional science” cannot be persuaded7 Yes, simply because they are based on facts and not on assumptions. Yes, there are dark spots, explanations of which are only hypotheses. But in general, the whole story is built on facts and not on orders, no matter what they say.
    But the truth is that writing a story is custom-made. Many of you know why you nicknamed Alexander Nevsky. But there is one theory and you will not like it. In the Neva, he did not defeat the Swedish army, but only merchants. For which he was subsequently expelled from the throne of Novgorod. There are many indirect evidence for this theory. How do you think this theory can rightfully exist7
  • ver_
    ver_ 24 March 2016 04: 34
    +2
    .. That the Americans on the Moon, that the Mongols in Russia - from a series of obvious unbelievable, in both cases, a complete lack of evidence that this was the case .. They are stubborn enough in Khiva to see them, and they are God's dew ..
  • Seal
    Seal 25 March 2016 22: 06
    0
    And nothing ... Pivovarov is an obedient performer of “our” and overseas customer. With him, as with a goose-water.

    What kind of Pivovarov are you talking about? Is it about the sanctuary by the hour? Is he here too?
  • Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 22 March 2016 13: 51
    +5
    I will begin my comment with a well-known phrase.
    "Who owns the information, he owns the world."
    So actually what did I mean by that? To argue about what kind of history it was now at the forum level is a futile matter, because there are enough supporters and opponents of classical history here. The argument, as you know, does not give rise to truth, but a compromise. I would like to draw the eyes of my contemporaries to the events to which we are living witnesses, and these are events in Ukraine. What do we see there, besides the civil war? But we see the reformatting of the national consciousness, the result of which, after a certain time, can become the emergence of a perfect new people, who will consider themselves not of Russian origin. After a thousand years, our descendants will laugh at their contemporaries and prove to them, based on facts that have come down to them from official sources (because the victors write history) that the Russians and Ukrainians are unrelated peoples.
    I propose to think about it, as if it would not look fantastic now. hi
  • D. Dan
    D. Dan 22 March 2016 14: 21
    0
    I think it’s not right to blame the author of the article indiscriminately.
    and, at the same time, to make Nazidei out of reformatting national history is also not the way.
    I do not argue, among the forum participants there are enough thinking people.
    And yet the truth seems to me - somewhere in the middle.
  • but still
    but still 22 March 2016 14: 34
    0
    How the author has already increased the scale of the "Russian Scythian-Siberian World" ?! wassat

    Now I will again spoil your grandiose theory, nothing personal hi

    The most ancient examples of the swastika, which you call Scythian, were found not in the vastness of the "Russo-Scythian-Siberian and Horde and Tatar" world, but in the territory where the Thracians and their ancestors lived. It is not for nothing that your appetite has grown - already in the article they have already swung to the Balkans. So if we take into account the spread of culture (according to archaeological finds), it turns out that your Scythian-Siberian Rus from the Thracian-Bulgarians originated! bully So, build your own Great Russo-Scythian-Siberian Horde, Tartarian, etc. you don’t have any theory, PERPREGNUV Bulgarians and other peoples whose culture absorbed hi

    Author, look at different ancient images of swastikas, only, for God's sake, do not rank them among your Rusich-Scythians-Horde, ok? :
    http://prarodinata.blog.bg/history/2012/12/01/kosmicheskata-svastika-na-bylgarit

    e.1026373
    1. Oprychnik
      Oprychnik 22 March 2016 23: 04
      0
      You, "But still", are so stubborn! Before so persistently and consistently promoting your Bulgarian-Thracian homegrown theory, ask the founders of this World and its ancestors proto-ukrov, and whether your, far-fetched theory, corresponds to the basic principles and provisions of the True Theory of the Creation of the World, which Kiev probably knows about more than yours. You should have known that the Proto-Bulgarians came to the shores of the Black Sea, not even suspecting that if it had not been for the proto-ukry, the sea would not have been, you are a naive person.
      1. but still
        but still 23 March 2016 00: 56
        -1
        belay They would say "energetic", otherwise "stubborn" ... well, okay, I'm still flattered by the attention to my comments fellow

        No, it turns out that there were no proto-Bulgarians or Bulgarians ... And there were no proto-patrons either ... There was no one except the Rus-Scythian-Siberian Hordes who poured the Ural Mountains, spoke Sanskrit and created these Russians, i.e. . Etruscan murals smile

        his Bulgarian-Thracian homegrown theory


        Although really homegrown, but it is internationally recognized, and not only by couch experts.

        And now I boast again:
        http://portal-bg1.ning.com/page/4155162:Page:294307
        1. but still
          but still 23 March 2016 01: 07
          -1
          Translation of one paragraph:

          Representatives of American, French and Japanese science noted that the most ancient civilization in Europe and in the world flourished in Bulgaria and part of the Balkans from 6200 to 4500 BC. These statements, in connection with the exhibition "The Lost World of Ancient Europe" in New York, are based on the research of Prof. David Anthony (Anthony), anthropologist Michelle Louis Seferiad, archaeologist Prince Mikasa, archaeologist Viliam Ryen, prof. Petko Dimitrova from the Institute of Oceanology at the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, prof. mathematicians Hristo Smolenova, prof. anthropology Yordan Yordanov and the book of the researcher Harald Harman "Mysteries of the Danube Civilization".

          The American, French and Japanese science of whitewashing, the most ancient civilization in Europe and the world, has spread to the territory in Bulgaria and often from Balkanite from 6200 to 4500 g. Tverdenyat se founded on the exposition "The ruin is holy on Stara Europa" in New York, studied on prof. David Anthony, anthropologist Michel Louis Seferiad, archaeologist Prince Mikas, archaeologist Uliam Rayan, prof. Petko Dimitrov from the Institute of Oceanology, Kam BAS, prof. Hristo Smolenov - mathematician, prof. Yordan Yordanov is an anthropologist and a book on the researcher Harald Harman "A riddle on Dunavskat civilization"


          http://portal-bg1.ning.com/page/4155162:Page:294307
  • Cartalon
    Cartalon 22 March 2016 15: 45
    +3
    In general, true patriotism is, it is sacred to believe that all Russian history is fiction, and all Russian rulers, starting with Vladimir, are traitors to the red sun, and it turns out that the enemies wrote epics from Hada.
  • Svyatoslav
    Svyatoslav 22 March 2016 15: 53
    +4
    The earliest finds of the swastika of its classical (four-pointed) type date back to the 1852th millennium BC. The name swastika was introduced in XNUMX by Eugene Burnouf. Before that, it was called Fylfot, tetraskelion (four-legged), triskelion (three-legged), gamma cross or gamadion.
    According to M. Müller, the right-handed gammatic cross (Suastika) is a sign of light, life, holiness and prosperity, which is corresponding in nature to the spring incoming sun. The left-sided sign (suavastika) expresses darkness, death, evil and destruction, it is acc. waning, autumn luminary.
    The main traditions of mankind (Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam) contain both right- and left-handed swastikas, which are assessed not on the "good-evil" scale, but as two sides of a single process. Destruction is not evil in the dualistic sense. but only the reverse side of creation.
    Most researchers at the end of the 11,5th century agreed that the swastika is the oldest Aryan symbol. (The common fatherland of the Aryans or Airan-Vaeya) during their dwellings in the Arctic Circle during the Mesolithic period (8-XNUMX thousand BC) .
    So that the Thracians are only part of a common whole.
    I advise you to read R. Bogdasarov "Swastika: a sacred symbol"
    1. but still
      but still 22 March 2016 16: 44
      +1
      I wrote "where the Thracians lived and their ancestors". The earliest image of a swastika (not a swastika-like pattern) was found on ceramics (6 millennium BC) in the Cave of Girls.

      So that the Thracians are only part of a common whole.


      I agree! Part of the whole. But not the Russo-Scythian-Siberian-Horde! smile
  • ArcanAG
    ArcanAG 22 March 2016 16: 06
    +1
    He burst out from under the chair.
    write the author yet.
  • a housewife
    a housewife 22 March 2016 16: 16
    +3
    So many people know everything about how it was a thousand years ago, although you can only guess about what happened 100 years ago, 10 or right now! Yes, even kill each other - everyone will remain in their own opinion - this is the main result of your showdown. And the best people on Earth are dolphins, this is my opinion. Although there are no chronicles and no cities to be built, they are not at war, and their civilization is not obvious to us, this does not mean that it does not exist.
  • Seal
    Seal 22 March 2016 16: 46
    +1
    Quote: Cityman
    But they are dated 5-8 centuries.

    And what served as the basis for the attribution of what was found to 5-8 centuries?
    1. but still
      but still 22 March 2016 16: 53
      +1
      ... I would go to archaeologists
      Let me be taught ... wassat
  • From the infantry
    From the infantry 22 March 2016 16: 49
    +2
    There is no guarantee that the truth is stated in the annals and archives. Therefore, there are so many opinions as there are researchers. It is more useful to analyze, for example, the languages ​​of different peoples or the names of remote villages and rivers. For example, the principles of the grammatical structure of the English language and the Buryat language are for some reason very similar. Moreover, the basic auxiliary verbs are almost the same both in meaning and in sound. For some reason, the Polish "sky" is very similar to the Buryat-Mongolian word for father - ecegei. For some reason, the name Hans is translated as "only" and is written in Cyrillic exactly like that, though pronounced with an accent on the letter "s". Hilda's name is uplifting. Brunjilia is the most recent. None of the Russians will explain why a feast is often called a party, but I believe that it comes from the word "guldan" - a gathering, a meeting. The Ukrainian word "Shinok" is very similar to our verb to cook, to cook - shan '(stress on "n"). And finally, the word "Orod" is translated from Buryat as Russian. By the way, the Orda river is not only in Moscow, but in almost every Siberian region. In many languages ​​there are synonyms, but there are words that do not have synonyms. What does it mean? Surely this word is not borrowed from another language and can be taken into account.
    In short, I want to say that such an analysis leads to very interesting reflections. For example, that we are all densely mixed a long time ago and we all have a lot in common. Various, including new "historical" interpretations appear and receive wide publicity when it is very beneficial for someone to raise some and shake others. So someone suddenly became a barbarian, another savage or completely subhuman.
    1. Sweles
      Sweles 22 March 2016 17: 08
      -1
      Quote: Infantry
      And finally, the word "Orod" is translated from Buryat as Russian.


      exactly Orod-Russian? but it’s a Horde, not bad ...
    2. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 22 March 2016 17: 19
      -1
      Quote: Infantry
      In short, I want to say that such an analysis leads to very interesting thoughts.

      At the Amur Nivkhs or Orocs, I do not remember exactly, the cat is called a keshka. Exactly the legacy of the great Tartariania, yeah.
  • ovod84
    ovod84 22 March 2016 17: 00
    0
    Guys let's think about the present and the future. was the Mongol yoke, in 1480, Ivan 3 stopped paying tribute to them. many people died from the Mongols of the city cobbled, Kolovrat died the death of the brave. Starting from Ivan3, Moscow Russia is becoming a powerful state, which to this day Russia is its legal successor.
    1. Seal
      Seal 24 March 2016 00: 02
      +1
      Yes, you should stop at the word "think".
      The Tatar yoke is an invention of the Poles, who had the goal of proving that Poland is the last outpost of civilization in the East of Europe. Then, when, in the course of the Napoleonic troops, the Europeans saw real Tatars in Europe and Paris and were surprised that these Tatars - exactly the same Europeans as themselves - European historians quickly began to transform the "Tatar yoke" first into the Tatar-Mongol yoke, then into "Mongol-Tatar", and now often even we ourselves are limited to one "Mongolian". And the Khalkha nation was appointed to the post of the Mongols. Likewise, when the Swedes had to designate the rights to the "Kemsk volost" - the Swede Peter Petrei created a theory that once the Vikings, who are Swedes, were called to rule in Russia. And so the word "Mongol" in Turkic means the Eternal Country "Mangi el". The Millennial Reich, for example, also had the Deutschland Mangi el (Germanic Mongols).
      Well, and our liberals, who already looked to the West with admiration, unanimously picked up these theories that yes, here we are, silver-footed, have been under the yoke for 300 years, but before that we could not figure it out - we had to call the Varangians from overseas to rule us. Ugh ..
      None of the birch bark letters ever contain the words: "Tatar", "Mongol", Mongol-Tatar "," Tatar-Mongol ", Baskak", "Khan," Great Khan "," Horde "," yoke ", "Batu", etc. But the current liberals, relying on Karamzin, spit into the souls of our ancestors, who did not suspect that they were "under the yoke."
      These liberals, these duty officers, these cheap things, who are ready to sell for any currency, are in fact traitors to the Russian people, because they inspire and inspire day and night (especially with the EBN) this idiotic fantasy about the "Tatar-Mongol yoke", like , be patient, dear Russians, it used to be even worse ... but we still got out of that shit, and get out of the present. Someday. 300 years later.
      They, these adherents of the Tatar-Mongol yoke, ”suggest that, they say, it’s okay that tens of millions of migrant workers and refugees from all over the world (not only from Central Asia, but also from all three Transcaucasian republics, too) were flooded with Russia. It used to be like that too - Tatar-Mongols, for example. And those (Tatar-Mongols) were even worse, since they installed the "yoke" ... but nothing ... we managed ...
      And again the liberals climb there was a Mongol yoke there was a Mongol yoke there was a Mongol yoke.. ugh !!!
      Genghis Khan is a position... More precisely, the position is Khan. And Shagys or Chingis is the Eastern one. Just "Eastern Khan", of which there were thousands over the centuries. This is just another puncture from professional historians. If they (well, not they, but the travelers who then brought all this information to the European courts and court historians) walked (traveled) through the Turkic lands, then to the question "Who caused this or that destruction" from their Turkic-speaking counterparts could receive the following answers:
      1) This was done by Shagys Khan (Genghis Khan). In the understanding of the narrator is some famous Khan, whose lands were located in the East. Well, a little east of those who were interviewed.
      2) This was done by Batys-Khan (Batu, Batu). This is any Khan of lands located west of those who were interviewed. Batys - Western.