“The Battle of Angiari” and “The Battle of Marciano”: student versus teacher, symbolism versus realism

“The Battle of Angiari” and “The Battle of Marciano”: student versus teacher, symbolism versus realism
Both Leonardo and Vasari have felchen swords in their paintings (falsion). But they began to draw them in miniatures long before that. And they looked absolutely incredible! Here, for example, horsemen with falsions. Thumbnail from the Bodleian Apocalypse. 1250-1275 years


Art should always be accompanied by a graceful lightness and excellent purity of flowers, and the work as a whole should not be perfected with the strain of cruel passion, so that people who look at it do not have to suffer from passions, which, as you can see, were overwhelmed by the artist, but so that they rejoice in the happiness of the one whose hand is bestowed with heaven with such mastery, thanks to which things get completed, however, with science and work, but without any tension, and so much so that where they are placed, they don’t They were dead, but alive and truthful. Let them beware of sloppiness and achieve that each object depicted by them does not seem written, but alive and protruding from the picture. These are true, well-founded drawing and true ingenuity, which is recognized for those who put it into paintings that have received high recognition and appreciation.
Giorgio Vasari Biographies of famous painters. Giotto, Botticelli and others


Art and история. How did contemporaries appreciate the work of the great maestro? Biographer Leonardo Giorgio Vasari (and future author of The Battle of Marciano) later wrote that the Senoria commission recognized his work “outstanding and executed with great skill because of the amazing observations he used in the image of this dump, because in this image people show such the same fury, hatred and revenge, like the horses, of which two are intertwined with their front legs and fight with teeth with no less bitterness than their riders fighting for the banner ... "

This is not to say that Leonardo da Vinci thoughtlessly rushed to copy the ancient technology. That's it - I read it, he liked it, and he repeated it. Leonardo also took precautions, tested this technology in advance and did everything exactly according to the description: first, a layer of plaster was applied, which was primed to achieve a solid, even surface; then a layer of resin was added over the primer, which was applied with sponges. The combination of these materials was to provide a suitable base for applying oil paints. Leonardo wrote very quickly, using his scaffolding, but here the weather interfered with the work. It began to rain, and it became very damp. As a result, the paints refused to dry and began to leak. Then Leonardo decided to dry the mural with fire, and braziers were lit under the wall. However, if the upper sections of the fresco dried up even too quickly, below the fresco flowed very much, and Leonardo had to give up. There were many suggestions as to why his project failed in such a terrible way. Perhaps the master tried to get ahead of his younger rival and therefore decided to speed up the process, or poor-quality linseed oil was used, or the stucco was defective, to which the paint did not stick. But there is an opinion that Leonardo did not pay attention to the important part of Pliny's instructions, which said: “Among the paints that require a dry chalk coating and refuse to adhere to a damp surface are purple, Indian, cerulean, magenta, horn, appian , cerus. Wax is also stained with all of these coloring materials, for encaustic painting; a process that does not allow application to walls ... ”And he just used purple paint, and even put it on an insufficiently dried surface on a rainy day.


Morion was one of the most popular helmets of the time. Take any and draw ... Here, for example, is one of the many morions of the late 1326th century. from the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. On it we also see beautiful images of battle scenes of spearmen, arquebuzirs and horsemen. Flanders Copper, leather. Weight XNUMX g

As a result, little remains of the mural over the next few years. Rather, there are eight studies of her composition, three large studies of the heads depicted on her, her written description and several not-so-exact copies made by different artists at different times.


The horseman helmet, an assault habure in German, but also known as bourguignot, "burgundy helmet". Pay attention to the finish - this is a real work of art. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

Around 1603, Rubens wrote a copy of The Battle of Angiari based on an engraving made by Lorenzo Zaccia in 1558. It is believed that in it he achieved something that no other artist could convey before him, namely the feeling of power characteristic of Leonardo’s brush: the confusion, rage and fury of the fighting. It is interesting that this picture is often written both in books and on the Internet, that this is an original painting by Leonardo, which she certainly is not.


Another morion. The scene of the martyrdom of Mucius Stcevola is depicted. Dresden armory Ward

Interestingly, in accordance with the terms of the contract, Leonardo was supposed to draw the battle itself, starting with the approach of the Milanese troops in a cloud of dust. Then he had to portray St. Peter, who appeared to the commander of the papal troops, then the struggle for the bridge over the Tiber River, the defeat of the enemy and the burial of the dead. All this had to be shown in one picture (!), That is, it was necessary to depict the beginning, middle and end of the battle on one canvas! Interestingly, the author of the Battle of Grunwald, Jan Matejko, also did approximately the same later. But Leonardo would not be himself if, by agreeing, he would not do everything his own way, and Senoria simply did not have the strength to argue with him.


Chasing, figures ... Everything is under antiquity! If only our helmets would paint such helmets on their frescoes! Bourguignot. Augsburg, 1594-1599 Dresden Armory

By agreement of 1503, he promised to complete work by February 1505 or return all payments. Despite his incompleteness and the absence of signs that he had made significant progress, payments continued after this time. The end result was a short letter about his work, which was sent from Pierre Soderini to Charles d'Amboise. It stated that "Da Vinci did not behave towards the Republic as it should, because he accepted a large sum of money and barely began the great work that he had to do."

It is interesting, however, to note that other paintings commissioned by various artists were not finished. Michelangelo began work on the mural in 1504, but was recalled by Pope Julius II to Rome. All that remains of his work is a copy of his cardboard, which depicts bathing soldiers.


And these are the Landsknecht pants! Vienna Armory

And then Giorgio Vasari painted his “Battle of Marciano” on top of what was believed to be the frescoes of Leonardo.

In 1976, they performed her ultrasound examination, but did not find anything. However, the Italian art critic Maurizio Seracini, who conducted this study, considered that Vasari simply could not ruin the work of Leonardo, whom he admired and literally idolized. New studies have shown that there is some space behind the wall on which the Vasari mural is painted. Finally, on March 12, 2012, Maurizio Seracini announced that there was another surface behind the wall with his fresco. Six holes were drilled into the wall, probes were thrown into them, samples were taken, and black and beige paints were found among the samples, as well as red varnish, typical for the beginning of the XNUMXth century. However, no one wants to destroy the wall, although everyone wants to find a picture of Leonardo. There are “movements” and “for” and “against” the continuation of work. Pickets and demonstrations are held. What will happen next, while no one knows.

This is the story of these two paintings. Well, now you can well deal with them closely. Let's look at the picture of Rubens and see that besides perhaps even the flagpole on it, in fact, is the shaft of a knightly spear. That is, using it as a flagpole for a banner would simply be inconvenient. For some reason, all the riders are depicted bare-footed and sit astride without stirrups. All riders are dressed in armor, but extremely strange. The rider on the left has some absolutely fantastic marine-style armor, but with a lamb head on his chest. The rider’s armor in a red turban is more acceptable, moreover, it is known that at that time such or similar turbans were worn in the cavalry of the Swiss, and not only among them. The second rider on the right seems to have a Morion helmet, but usually the riders did not use such helmets. It was a helmet of foot spearmen, but not cavalrymen at all!

There are saddles on horses, but there is no harness, no bridles, and how then do riders manage them?

It is interesting that all three riders are armed with felchen swords (or falsion in the Russian language), but the rider on the right also has a classic sword. Moreover, such felchins, although they often painted, did not reach us in a single copy. All surviving specimens, firstly, are few in number, and secondly, they don’t look like Leonardo at all! That is, it is possible that they existed. They existed as a fashion for everything Turkish at the beginning of the Turkish conquests in Europe. And maybe, again, maybe Leonardo armed them with his “heroes” in order to once again emphasize the “atrocious nature” of the war, which, they say, has no place for Christian mercy, it’s just as wild as the Turks.


Duel on falsions. Engraving from the tournament book of Maximilian I "Freudal." 1512-1515

Of course, I personally would have been much more interested if the great Leonardo decided to combine his talent for depicting the muscular flesh of men and horses with the realistic ability to draw weapons and armor of that era, and not fantasize in such a wild and exotic way. That would be a picture for posterity! Say, on one horseman the armor is from Helschmid, on the other from Anton Peffenhauser, Valentin Siebenbürgeran or Konrad Lochner, and on the third there is something purely Milanese from the Negroles family ... But there isn’t that. Only mastery in transmitting overwhelming people and horses of emotions, and zero historical information - this is his picture!


Here is such an inscription (“Look and find out”) for some reason Vasari brought on one of the flags of his fresco. What is it? Hint that if you search, you can find a picture of Leonardo?

Giorgio Vasari in his fresco was nevertheless somewhat closer to realism. However, we begin by paying attention to the extreme horseman on the left. Both he and his horse are a clear redraw of the horseman from the fresco of Leonardo, well, of what is on the right. Of course, she is just similar, but very similar. And he, too, depicted a pheasant on the model of Leonard, as well as a completely mythological shield, painted a warrior in the very center. Maybe this is an allegory, and it contains the whole meaning of this mural, that is, there is not only a fantastic sword, but also an equally fantastic shield? At the same time, we see here quite realistic armored men riding horses with scarves over their shoulders. We see two arquebuzirs and terrible fights of warriors lying on the ground, one of whom stabs his opponent with a dagger in his mouth, while at the same time he stabs his dagger in his thigh. And again, this is a pretty recognizable scene from a painting by Leonardo. That is, it turns out that the student followed the tradition of the teacher, and what he did not leave behind was added to them, Giorgio Vasari? Be that as it may, we will never know this now!
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  1. DMB 75 15 March 2020 05: 45 New
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    Thank you, I enjoyed reading for morning coffee!
    Here is such an inscription (“Look and find out”) for some reason Vasari brought on one of the flags of his fresco. What is it?

    St. John Chrysostom
    Art. 7-8 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek and find; knock, and they will open it to you; for everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
    It was simply accepted like that in those days. For any reason, turn to God whether you are going to war or are going to paint a picture ...
    1. Phil77 15 March 2020 06: 02 New
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      Well, Seracini thought differently, but of course the answer can only be given by the study of space behind the false wall.
  2. Phil77 15 March 2020 05: 51 New
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    Good morning to everyone! Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich, I read it with great interest! And yes, regarding the inscription on the flag, I read that it was this inscription that prompted Seracini to look for Leonardo’s work precisely behind the Vasari fresco. Well, wait for the completion of Serachini’s study.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 March 2020 06: 08 New
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      Hello, Sergey!
      Still, I wonder if they can come up with technology, how to get a copy of a painting by Leonardo da Vinci, while maintaining the second picture !!!
      1. Phil77 15 March 2020 06: 13 New
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        Hi Vlad !!!! So offhand, I know that some graffiti for individual collections is separated from the walls. How? In parts? Entirely? I don’t know. I learned about this from one Perez-Reverte novel on this topic. And here is the situation simpler, but .. the desire of the authorities, responsibility and of course one hundred percent result of the study!
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 March 2020 06: 31 New
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          God grant!
          Nevertheless, the result is interesting.
          1. Phil77 15 March 2020 06: 33 New
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            Of course, but I’m interested in the question: what is the distance between the false wall and the wall, where, perhaps ?, is Leonardo’s work.
            1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 17 New
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              Feels like a practitioner! laughing good
              Sergei! hi
              1. Phil77 15 March 2020 07: 22 New
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                Greetings Anton! So it’s really interesting !!! recourse
                1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 28 New
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                  "Our neighbor is a very smart person! When my little brother was presented with a drum, he mysteriously asked the kid:" Do you know what's inside him?!?! ""
                  1. Phil77 15 March 2020 07: 43 New
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                    Yeah. And by the way I googled and here's what I found out. The hollow behind the wall is somewhere from 10 to 30 mm. And the chemical analysis of the black pigment taken by the probe corresponds to what Leonardo used when working on Mona Lisa.
                    1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 45 New
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                      Hmmm, what about the thickness of the partition?
                      1. Phil77 15 March 2020 07: 49 New
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                        Well, I think that time was running out. Probably in * half a brick *.
                      2. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 55 New
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                        It is unlikely that there the wall area is more than a hundred "squares". In the "half-brick" she would have started to collapse in the process of erection.
                      3. Phil77 15 March 2020 08: 04 New
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                        But it’s worse! So in the near future we won’t get an answer.
                      4. Catfish 15 March 2020 13: 14 New
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                        Is it worth it to take it apart? After all, there can be a devil. Remember Edgar Allan Poe's "Barrel of Amontillado".
                      5. Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 42 New
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                        A curiosity to amuse?
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 34 New
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    some graffiti for individual collections are separated from the walls
    I’m not sure that this is true, otherwise Banksy would have already been trading.
    1. Phil77 15 March 2020 07: 47 New
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      However, his work was exhibited. Los Angeles, Bristol, and in St. Petersburg was his exhibition.
      1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 57 New
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        These are copyright copies. Here they are being traded.
    2. Phil77 15 March 2020 07: 50 New
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      * Patient Sniper * -Good graffiti novel.
      1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 07: 58 New
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        Is it a Revert?
        1. Phil77 15 March 2020 08: 02 New
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          Yes, yes! There, by the way, there is a lot about the independence of street artists, and that as soon as a writer begins to bargain, he ceases to be an artist. Well, of course, by their concepts.
          1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 08: 12 New
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            Unfortunately, I only read Queen of the South. Interestingly, but in the style of presentation, I "do not go."
            As for graffiti artists, yes, there is such an opinion in their midst.
        2. Phil77 15 March 2020 11: 49 New
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          Anton! And I asked and found out that the brick in the 16th century had different characteristics than now. So its width was around 150 mm., Length about 300, height 80 mm. So it’s quite possible that in * half a brick *. But of course you need to know how many people worked at the facility, the pace of work, the deadline. hi
          1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 12: 05 New
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            Sergei! Brick is the greatest invention of mankind! It is universal, its scale varies within the framework of "foot - half foot - quarter foot." The dimensions given by you are included in the error, otherwise the mason will not be able to work alone.
            And the wall is 100 sq.m. laid out in a half-brick without mortgages and reinforcement, all one - will fail!
            1. Phil77 15 March 2020 12: 10 New
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              Then we come to the opinion- * into the brick *! * One and a half * - this is already too much.
              1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 12: 29 New
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                Damn, I'm starting to feel in the workplace!
                "- Or maybe we can do without waterproofing?
                - Then the shower will flow.
                - Can it be plastered with a “rotband”?
                - Then the tile will fall off " laughing
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 35 New
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                  Hi Konstantin! I'm already starting to smile! laughing Really and the beautiful senora Vera will come? Now this will be the topic, conditionally * Building materials and items of the women's toilet, as well as their role in art *. sad
                3. kalibr 15 March 2020 16: 10 New
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                  Quote: Phil77
                  * Building materials and items of women's toilet, as well as their role in art *.

                  And do not wait. There is no such article in the plan and is not expected. There will be an article about ... Russian chronicles!
                4. Catfish 15 March 2020 16: 40 New
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                  How can it be, after all, Vic Nikolaitch also voiced our common desire to make an excursion into history with your help behind loincloths as a prototype of thongs. laughing drinks (and the young ladies also want) yes
                5. kalibr 15 March 2020 18: 28 New
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                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  for loincloths as a prototype of thongs. (and the young ladies also want)

                  That is, about the annals you are not interested, but drawn to the history of thongs? There will be this ... even the sculpture was just wonderful ... What would it be clear! But more on that later. From the cycle about clothes, only an article about Dr. Egypt is still ready. And there is the Bronze Age, Greece / Rome ...
                6. Catfish 15 March 2020 19: 44 New
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                  Who said chronicle is not interesting? Absolutely everything is interesting! Especially when it's obvious, and you have a complete order with it. Boom to wait. smile
                7. Astra wild 15 March 2020 21: 05 New
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                  I'm already waiting for your stories
        3. Astra wild 15 March 2020 21: 03 New
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          Konstantin (sea cat) Your picture reminded me of Gaidai's comedy when Fedya thought he had walled up Shurik
        4. Catfish 15 March 2020 21: 21 New
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          Right! I still enjoy watching this short story. laughing
    3. Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 36 New
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      Well, Monday tomorrow, getting ready. laughing
    4. Catfish 15 March 2020 21: 43 New
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      Well, Monday, tomorrow, getting ready ... We, too ... laughing drinks
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 13: 40 New
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    You are all about the wall.

    And the wall is 100 sq.m. laid out in a half-brick without mortgages and reinforcement, all one - will fail!
    Should not. It all depends on the ratio of length and height. If the height is less than 6 meters, according to modern SNiPu, this is a partition. You can calculate the stability at a thickness of 180 mm, but practice tells me that at 65 mm it will stand.
  • Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 46 New
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    The wall height in the area is just over 6 meters.
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 13: 51 New
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    This, in this case, does not change anything. If more than 6 m - the wall is self-supporting. In this case, it is the same as a partition, since there is no wind load.
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 14: 07 New
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    You are all about the wall.
    And then! "Pink Floyd" is our everything !!!
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 14: 19 New
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    Oh, in 1980, the Wall album was brought to me from France. The recording studio at home worked for two weeks without a break! The current generation will not understand this.
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 14: 29 New
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    Choi "do not understand"? I asked here once at the guy who played in the transition on the saxophone, if he knows what "music on the bones", got a very competent answer. This is despite the fact that such records, even for me, are already a rarity.
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 14: 46 New
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    I mean access, Anton! Now you can find everything on the Internet without any problems. And in the USSR of the seventies and eighties, such music was available in normal quality only through smuggling and discs cost at least fifty dollars. The owner of the original from Harvest Records and a decent kit from a player and tape recorder such as Vega + Olympus could earn normal money.
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 14: 50 New
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    With this - I agree !!! In my class, only one person had a two-drawer. By the way, I was surprised that the "Wall" was in your single copy. Usually this was mined in pairs, because one literally flirted with holes in the indicated 2 weeks.
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 14: 59 New
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    Stationary cassette recorders with a less decent sound - this is a separate article and only commission. A high-class cassette in the USSR began to be produced somewhere in the year 1982, if I am not mistaken.
    By the way, my 1985 Panasonic cassette is still working.
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 15: 05 New
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    I can’t name a year, but it was Radio Engineering.
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 15: 10 New
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    Appeared in 1987. But this is 2nd grade. Since the 90th have been remotely controlled.
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 21: 36 New
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    Wait! The second class of sound reproducing equipment in the USSR was indicated by the number "2" before the model number. So, I had a Vesna-283 tape recorder. WEF products have always been of a quality not lower than the first, and on some samples there was a marking starting with "0". At the very beginning, I learned that the Riga hardware was in complete competition with the Beng & Olufsen.
  • Undecim 15 March 2020 23: 24 New
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    Radiotehnika MP-7220-stereo - output frequency range - 40 ... 14000 Hz. This is the second grade. Produced by Riga.
    And the first and upper class were called "Wilma", they were made by Vilnius.
  • Mordvin 3 18 March 2020 16: 42 New
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    Quote: Undecim
    This is a separate article and only commission.

    Why only commission-fee? I personally remember how the Lighthouse in the store stood.
  • Undecim 18 March 2020 16: 48 New
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    It's about tape recorders. And Lighthouse 001 is a reel prefix.
  • Mordvin 3 18 March 2020 17: 04 New
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    So I'm talking about the cassette player. Here, the pictures found. Lighthouse 011.
    . And in the store I saw, and with a friend. Like the Corvette turntable. Still, I remember, I was surprised at the bump on the lid, laughed.
    Well, I personally had 5 cassettes, Spring of the second class, I don’t remember the index, Electronics 324-1, Sirius REM 228, two-cassette Lighthouse of the second class, I don’t remember the number, and Philips, a two-cassette with three CDs, bought in the 99th. There was nothing left but the Chinese balalaika Atlanta (this is the 6th, there was a draw at work dead, took it, fixed it), and that one is glad, I like to turn the cassettes.
  • Undecim 18 March 2020 21: 20 New
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    I remembered my student years - the end of the seventies. And Lighthouse 011 is 1986, almost ten years later.
  • Catfish 15 March 2020 17: 01 New
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    And then! "Pink Floyd" is our everything !!!

    C'mon, it’s for me that Pinky, that the Beatles were always up to the bulb. But my neighbor speculated with disks with terrible force, on which he burned down. I also tried to push something like that, and I put Ray's disc on the turntable and then asked: "So what, will I listen to your crap after it?" He didn’t understand anything, but no longer molested.
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 20: 47 New
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    Oh, these children of Victory, lepers of the festival of youth and students! They don't even give a damn about Woodstock from a tall bell tower! What can we say about a quiet Soviet underground? request lol laughing laughing laughing
  • Catfish 15 March 2020 21: 31 New
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    There was still an American exhibition, and this is abruptly festival. Actually, I grew up with Halle, Presley and Harry Belafonte. What to do, the Soviet stage generally ceased to perceive from the age of fourteen, and from the howling of the Beatles, I just got my teeth shut. And in the seventies came a bard song, so there even though the lyrics were meaningful.
    "Stone - pines Leningrad forest,
    I got lost and got wet in the swamp,
    And as if a native breeze
    Pulled from the back by a wreck. "

    How many thousands of years have passed, and still, maybe not exactly, but I remember. smile
    What's next:
    ". So it is - a truck,
    The driver stuck to the radiator ...
    ..........................................
    He will put the key and hell in his pocket
    and probably won’t write a novel ... " drinks
  • 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 21: 50 New
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    Uncle Kostya, I'm kidding! I listened to Presley, and Badi Holly, and Chuck Berry! I am just happy with this wave of music, which is transmitted from generation to generation. good There are only seven notes - and even less good music!
  • Catfish 15 March 2020 12: 39 New
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    Well, Seryoga, you will clearly be satisfied with this configuration. wink
  • vladcub 15 March 2020 20: 13 New
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    This is unlikely. The mosaic can be reassembled, and the murals are problematic
  • Olgovich 15 March 2020 06: 50 New
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    Chasing, figures ... Everything is under antiquity! If only our helmets would paint such helmets on their frescoes! Bourguignot. Augsburg, 1594-1599 Dresden Armory

    By such beauty and ... with a sword! belay

    Sorry! ...

    Apparently, this was the calculation .... recourse yes
    1. Fat
      Fat 15 March 2020 09: 50 New
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      Quote: Olgovich
      By such beauty and ... with a sword!

      Mr. in such armor only as a squirrel ... in the eye, so as not to spoil the skin))))
      1. Olgovich 15 March 2020 10: 25 New
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        Quote: Thick
        Lord in such armor only as a squirrel ... in the eye, so as not to spoil the skin ))))

        In! good

        Again, it’s harder to get into the eye than to "slash" from the shoulder and again, a chance to survive appears .... yes

        On the other hand, everyone wants to take advantage of such a wonderful device .... recourse
        1. Fat
          Fat 15 March 2020 11: 13 New
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          Quote: Olgovich

          Again, it’s harder to get into the eye than to "slash" from the shoulder and again, a chance to survive appears .... yes
          On the other hand, everyone wants to take advantage of such a wonderful device .... recourse

          ... It is interesting that all three riders are armed with felchen swords (or falsion in Russian), but the rider on the right also has a classic sword.

          The epee is logical just for the "special case")))
        2. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 11: 13 New
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          This is the whole "trick" of the wars of the Renaissance and Enlightenment! The more “parrots” the device is, the less likely it is that they will “fill up tightly”.
          1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 11: 36 New
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            However, Landsknechts killed (finished off) precisely on this basis. So as not to get up and not teach others!
        3. kalibr 15 March 2020 11: 28 New
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          I always had a strong desire to make a replica of such a helmet, even if made of paper, not metal. However, I can do so that I can’t distinguish from a distance. But once! We must ... write. And now also work in the country.
          1. Olgovich 15 March 2020 15: 10 New
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            Quote: kalibr
            But once! We must ... write. And now also work in the country.

            At the cottage, at my look no less interesting recourse

            And the articles are waiting! hi
            1. kalibr 15 March 2020 16: 06 New
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              Quote: Olgovich
              In the country, in my opinion, no less interesting
              And the articles are waiting!

              You see. You wrote it yourself. But I’m not writing from my head ... I have to read a lot, look for sources, translate ... Yes, Google to help, but it gives out such that then you still have to look at the original. And searching for illustrations, scanning them ... Sometimes it takes more time than writing an article. So a summer residence is a summer residence, and articles are articles!
      2. Trilobite Master 15 March 2020 11: 36 New
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        Quote: Thick
        Lord in such armor only as a squirrel ... in the eye,

        They generally tried to take gentlemen in good armor alive, for the more expensive the helmet looks, the more expensive the head that it covers. Where have you seen a tin can itself cost more than its contents? smile
        1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 11: 49 New
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          Where have you seen a tin can itself cost more than its contents?
          As much as you like, Michael !!!
          Jars with the inscription "Air of St. Petersburg" are still sold and are in demand among tourists.
          1. Trilobite Master 15 March 2020 12: 07 New
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            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Jars with the inscription "Air of St. Petersburg"

            Good, rephrase. smile Where did you see the can meat Canned food was more expensive than its contents? smile
            1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 12: 16 New
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              As much as you like, Michael! laughing laughing
              A beer can in Norway costs 25 euro cents. Take a look at the cost of "canned" meat under the brand name "365" in the next "five".
              1. Trilobite Master 15 March 2020 12: 36 New
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                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Take a look at the cost of canned meat

                No, no, and do not persuade. no And in general I talked about canned meat, and not about ... about it.
                Of course, if the contents of knightly armor were sold by weight purely for gastronomic purposes, and even with damage, then this would be substandard and yes, the packaging itself would be much more expensive ... But the consumer in those days was already competent and knew that the main thing the value of such a product lies in the biochemical reactions that occur under packaging, so they tried to preserve them.
                1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 12: 48 New
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                  No, no, and do not persuade. no And in general I talked about canned meat, and not about ... about it.
                  So. Calmly. Count to ten and exhale. Let's leave the clasp on the holster alone ... I didn’t offer to try! laughing
              2. Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 39 New
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                Anton, please enlighten. And what kind of brand * 365 *? Somehow I didn’t catch my eye. recourse
                1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 13: 42 New
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                  Well, maybe it's a regional supplier. Brand "365 days", the cheapest products and "household." Well, the quality is appropriate.
                  1. Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 43 New
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                    A. It is clear. An analog * of the red price *.
                    1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 13: 45 New
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                      So maybe one office packaging and sculpts!
                      1. Phil77 15 March 2020 13: 57 New
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                        About six months ago, I opened a producer such as * BARS *, a very respectable canned food. Let's say in a jar with stew / pork, beef / a solid piece of meat, just meat! Yes, and it tastes good.
          2. rich 15 March 2020 12: 40 New
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            Jars with the inscription "Air of St. Petersburg" are still sold and are in demand among tourists.

            Greetings, Anton. The name of such koserv is legion smile



            1. 3x3zsave 15 March 2020 13: 06 New
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              My respect, dear! (Unfortunately, the mobile version of the site does not reflect the names).
              But this divorce is a purely Petersburg invention! It appeared on the eve of the 300th anniversary, sometime in February 2003.
            2. Korsar4 15 March 2020 13: 39 New
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              Ingredients for modern art from stickers.
        2. Fat
          Fat 15 March 2020 11: 55 New
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          Quote: Trilobite Master
          They generally tried to take gentlemen in good armor alive, for the more expensive the helmet looks, the more expensive the head that it covers. Where have you seen a tin can itself cost more than its contents?

          Well .. Fur animals were beaten and bolts (arrows) with round tips and the skin (bank) is intact and the contents are available. And then they sorted out the value of the contents ..)))
          1. Trilobite Master 15 March 2020 12: 17 New
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            Quote: Thick
            And then they sorted out the value of the contents ..)))

            The grandees in good armor tried to take exclusively alive. Their skins, meat, bones, and liver were of little interest to their opponents on their own, without the biochemical processes uniting them. In the event of termination of such processes, the total cost of the trophy fell sharply. smile
            1. Fat
              Fat 15 March 2020 12: 49 New
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              Of course you are right, but among the condottieres there were also quite a few "collectors". And with these for sure ... Maximin died, and ... ... with him ...
              1. Trilobite Master 15 March 2020 14: 10 New
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                Condottiers are businessmen. The most important thing for them is the voiced coin. And Italian condottieres were generally distinguished by rare corporate solidarity, even being on opposite sides of the front. It happened like this: they will meet, maneuver back and forth for decency, count each other, evaluate their positions, the two commanders meet, drink and agree, everything, like, you won. We diverge. Civilization, however. And about seriously cutting each other ... No, everything happened, but this, in general, was not welcomed, because it did not bring income. It was a "good war."
                Here are the Germans and the Swiss - yes. Wild people, northern barbarians alien to sophisticated civilization. If they were already clinging, then it was imperative to blood and mass murder. It was a bad war.
                When this “bad war" was brought by the northern barbarians in the person of the French and their Swiss friends to the blessed land of Italy (Italian wars late XV - XVI centuries), the Italians were, as it were, somewhat puzzled by the impracticality of the enemy. Just recall the battle at Fornovo, where the Italian knights, seeing the futility of resistance, smiled radiantly, raised their hands and already mentally wondered how they would bargain for a ransom, but instead got a Swiss ax on the head, and if that turned out to be not enough, the Swiss simply cut their throats coming next.
                But in general, “bad war” was not a general rule, rather an exception.
                1. kalibr 15 March 2020 16: 01 New
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                  Ha! Exhaustive !!!
  • vladcub 15 March 2020 20: 22 New
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    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Sergei! Brick is the greatest invention of mankind! It is universal, its scale varies within the framework of "foot - half foot - quarter foot." The dimensions given by you are included in the error, otherwise the mason will not be able to work alone.
    And the wall is 100 sq.m. laid out in a half-brick without mortgages and reinforcement, all one - will fail!

    This is more likely the opinion of a professional than a couch "expert"
  • Fishery 18 May 2020 18: 13 New
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    Well, yes, the wavy falsions are completely wild))) of course you don’t dig a knight in armor) but if there is no armor, goodbye arms and legs) and apparently it was handier to cut from a horse, they look monstrous but they weigh up to 1,5 kg