“The Battle of Grunwald” by Jan Matejko: when there is too much epic

133

Yan Mateiko. The Battle of Grunwald

“The mass of overwhelming material in the Battle of Grunwald.” There are so many interesting, live, and screaming pictures in all corners that you simply wear out with your eyes and head, perceiving the whole mass of this colossal work. There is no empty place: both in the background and in the distance - everywhere new situations, compositions, movements, types, expressions open up. It amazes like an endless picture of the universe. ”
I. E. Repin


Art and story. Previous material with a picture The "heroes" of V. M. Vasnetsov I became interested in many visitors of the Military Review, and a number of them expressed the wish that the theme of weapons-analysis of historical paintings would be continued, and even specific authors and specific paintings would be called. Gradually, all of this will be given and considered, but not immediately: planning is the basis of quality work. And according to the plan, today we have another epic canvas. The famous "Grunwald battle" by Polish artist Jan Matejko. The painting was painted in 1878. Its dimensions are 426 × 987 cm. It is located in the National Museum in Warsaw. During the Second World War, the Nazis put a lot of effort to find and destroy it. They offered 10 million stamps, but no one showed their whereabouts to them, and several people lost their lives, but they did not reveal the secret. The opinion of our outstanding artist I.E. Repin about this picture is given in the epigraph, it is impossible to challenge it.



But today we are interested in another question. Not the skill of the painter, which no one disputes, and not the patriotic mood of the canvas - if it weren’t for it, 10 million marks would not be offered for him. And such an important aspect in a certain sense, as the correspondence of armor and weapons warriors of the historical era. Or ... it’s not important if the artist sets himself completely specific tasks. Or partly it is important to him, and partly not very ... That is, we are talking about the goal-setting of the canvas itself and the percentage of epicism and historicism.

Note that the Battle of Grunwald is described in more detail in the work of the Polish historian Jan Dlugosz “History of Poland”, which, although it was not its contemporary, lived at least in the same century and could use sources from the royal archives, and besides his father was directly involved in this battle. By the way, it was Dlugosh who, as early as 1479, was the first in history to apply the term “yoke” to Tatar rule in Russia. And in 1448, in Latin, he described 56 Prussian banners (banners) captured by the Poles, of which 51 were the trophies of Grunwald, one was captured near Koronov in the same 1410 and four more in the battle of Dompki in 1431, and the Krakow artist Stanislav Dyurink painted them in color. During the life of Dlugosh, these banners were located at the Wawel pulpit of the tomb of St. Stanislav, but later they disappeared. That is, thanks to his efforts, we have not only a description of the battle, but images of banners of the Teutonic army that could fly over the field of Grunwald.


This is what a typical 1450 knight looked like. He wears a Bundhugel helmet (“dog’s face”) with chain mail, a woven brigandine (in this case, faded red velvet) and plate covers on his arms and legs. All-forged cuirasses, all the more decorated with patterns, we will not see on them. And the knights who participated in the Battle of Grunwald both from the side of the Crusaders and from the Polish-Lithuanian army looked about the same. (Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York)

So, the canvas is in front of us. Let us begin to examine it from left to right and look very carefully: we suddenly see something that will allow us to look at this canvas in a completely different way. What do we see on it?

To begin with, we determine that it shows perhaps the most important moment of the battle, namely the assassination of the master of the Teutonic Order, Ulrich von Jungingen. And here we make the first remark, which is equally relevant to the entire canvas. All knights of the foreground fighting on it are shown either without helmets, or in helmets without a visor. It is clear that this could not be by definition, but on the other hand, and how then the artist could depict all recognizable and iconic characters. That is, he could, of course, but ... he didn’t do it the way it should.

“The Battle of Grunwald” by Jan Matejko: when there is too much epic
Bacinet 1380-1410 (Higgins Arsenal, Worcester, Massachusetts)

On the left in the upper part of the canvas, we see that the battle for the order army camp has already begun, but right in front of us are three impressive figures: a knight on a raven horse and in a fluttering blue cloak, turned to the pursuer with a spear at the ready. This knight is Prince Casimir the Fifth of Szczecin, who fought on the side of the Order. So. He took the oath of allegiance and had to fulfill it. By the way, the second Pomeranian prince, although he signed an agreement with the crusaders, Bohuslav the Eighth Slupsky, did not appear to fight for them. Pursues the traitor Casimir, the Polish knight Jakub Skarbka from the Mountain. Moreover, his squire on foot overtook his master, the horseman, and had already managed to grab the enemy horse by the occasion. Two details here are of particular interest. For some reason, the bow in the armor-bearer's hand is shown with a bowstring lowered, curved in the opposite direction. And here is the question: why doesn’t he pull it, and if the bowstring is torn, then why doesn’t he abandon and fight with his sword, or what is there in store for this? Then he would not have to grab hold of the occasion with his left hand, which is inconvenient in every sense, unless he is left-handed. The second detail is Casimir's helmet. He didn’t pick it up, but was decorated with an impressive “peacock-feather” tire, which obviously fell off his helmet, although it is not very clearly visible with his hand with a sword. But you can see the top of the hilt of the sword is drawn very carefully. It is very rare in shape and somewhat expanded relative to the crosshair. Of course, much is allowed to the masters of painting, but this is already a matter of technology. He wears plate gloves with fingers, by the way, like on many other combatants. And this is not typical for the year 1410!


Plate gauntlet 1440-1450 Weight 479,1 g. Metrolitan Museum, New York

Then there were fingerless plate mittens in use, and gloves with fingers appeared only in the XNUMXth century, when armored men needed to shoot pistols. By the way, under the hooves of the horse of Casimir lies the cannonball. That is, the artist took into account such a "trifle" as the use of artillery at the beginning of a battle. Knights didn’t bring any success to the knights! There is a third detail - this is the shield of the Polish knight Jakub. It is round with four umbons. Typical Indian-Iranian Dhal. The Turks also had similar shields, but ... much later! He should be given a knightly tharch or a paveus ...


Here is this piece of the picture ... As you can see, all the details are written simply masterfully

By the way, the result of this battle was that Kazimir, like Prince Olesnitsky, who supported the Order, Konrad Bely, was captured. And what do you think happened later? They were chained, upturned on the first bitch? Not! King Vladislav invited them to a feast on the occasion of the victory. “From the side of the king, a more affectionate circumvention was shown than this corresponded to their position as prisoners. They were easily released, although their villainous deed would require worthy retribution, ”wrote Jan Dlugosch on this subject.

Next, we see a bearded old man, somewhere lost his horse, who looks with horror at how his master is being killed. This is the commander of Elbing Werner Tettingen, about whom we know that he shamed the master before the fight, seeing the latter's indecision, that, they say, you need to behave like a man and not like a woman. But he, however, did not behave as he advised others: he fled from the battlefield, and fled to Elbing itself. But he didn’t stay there, but decided to take refuge in the impregnable Marienburg. True, the question arises, where did he get the horse, if in the hottest place of the battle, and even among the riders he darted on foot, and even with his head uncovered ?!


That's how they him, that's how!

To the right of this bearded old man we see Master Ulrich von Jungingen. The horse under it is so small that you can’t even see it right away, although the master could have had the tallest and strongest horse. Two foot soldiers are attacking him: one half-naked, but for some reason in the lion's skin, is preparing to hit him with a spear, and a man who looks like an executioner with his headgear, with an ax in his hand. Looking closer, we will see that the spear of this Litvin (and Dlugosh writes that it was the Litvin who killed the master, with a horn in the side) is not simple, but the famous "spear of Fate", which is stored today in the Vienna castle of Hovburg. It is very strange and incomprehensible how such a weapon could fall into the hands of a commoner, whoever he may be. Here there is solid symbolism, they say, Providence itself was against the crusaders.

By the way, the Lithuanian Tatars are of the opinion that the Grand Master was killed in combat with the khan Dzhelal-ed-din - the commander of the Tatar detachment. A number of European historians believe that he was killed by a certain Bagardzin, however, also a Tatar. He was wounded in the forehead (that is, he lost his helmet!) And in the nipple, which means his armor was pierced through. What happened next, Dlugosh reports that the body of the deceased master was ordered by Jagiello to be laid on a cart covered with purple cloth, and then sent to the fortress of the crusaders Marienburg.


Another clearly symbolic image is interesting. Exactly under the ax of "man in red" on earth is the dying great commander of the Order Konrad von Liechtenstein

In the center we see the scene of the struggle for the banner, that is, the Order’s banner, the “Small Banner” (judging by the book of the same Dlugosh), because the “big” one had three pigtails at the base of the cross. And then the Grand Duke of Lithuania Vytautas, who was also called Vitold, Vytautas and even Alexander. He received this Christian name at baptism, and he was known under him in the Catholic West.


The shield-paveza is similar to that depicted in the picture. OK. 1450-1475 Germany, Saxony. The inscription on the shield around the figure of St. George reads: “Help, knight St. George; help God, your eternal word, the body is here and the soul is there. " Above is the coat of arms of the Duchy of Saxony, decorated with crossed swords, a symbol of the post of Elector of Saxony, as archimarchal of the Holy Roman Empire. Dimensions: Height 65,1 cm, width 44,5 cm. Weight 3230 g

For some reason, Vytautas is depicted on some unprepossessing, tiny little horse, without a shell and without a helmet, but with an unfastened chain mail mask and legs “chained” to metal, covered with scaly “armor”. The prince has a well-marked red yopul (a kind of doublet, popular in Poland at the beginning of the XNUMXth century) and with a princely velvet miter on its head, crowned with a cross on top. Obviously, this is not a battle suit, but already a shield in the left hand and completely from the realm of fantasy. Dlugosh wrote that he “rode around the entire Polish and Lithuanian army” ... and also: “During the battle the prince acted among Polish troops and wedges, sending new and fresh warriors in exchange for tired and exhausted and carefully monitoring successes both sides. " That is, the prince was here and there, and managed to do everything, and everywhere he visited. It may be so, but still he should have drawn a bigger horse for all these “trips” ...


Vitovt-Alexander

Interesting “pictures” can be seen behind the prince’s back. This is an archer, launching an arrow somewhere in the sky, as if there were no enemies nearby, and clearly visible next to the sword, which he holds in his hand, a spear with a trident tournament tip. Did the artist really not know what it was? And nobody was there to point him out? Amazing, just amazing!


1984th century Polish helmet. Weight XNUMX Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


The same helmet, side view

To the right behind Prince Alexander, another curious character is depicted: the Cracow coronet Marcin of Wrocimitz, the knight of the coat of arms of Semucosa. In one hand, he squeezes the shaft of a fluttering royal banner, and in the other he has a horn. Apparently, he is preparing to blow the victory. It may be so, but here is the helmet on his head ... not at all in 1410. Such helmets in the Polish cavalry appeared only in the XNUMXth century, and their “wings” themselves were not decorated with any additional feathers. To the right, we already see two anachronisms at once: the tournament helmet “toad head”, which also appeared a little later, and again the Turkish “turban helmet” of the XNUMXth century. Apparently, the artist did not care what the warriors depicted by him were on their heads. There is another archer right there, firing arrows into the wind, but we are interested in a warrior (again without a helmet) in a scaly shell and with a horn behind his belt, which cuts a knight's sword in a green jupon and with an orange cape on his head.


Jan ижižka

This "shell" is the legendary Jan Zizka, who participated in this battle as a mercenary and lost one eye in it. And he cuts with a sword Heinrich von Schwelborn, commander of the Tuchol. Moreover, someone sneaks up from behind to hit Zizka in the back with a dagger, but apparently he didn’t hit, he hit him with pleasure, but the armor withstood. In the lower right corner of the picture, the Tatar threw a lasso around the neck of Brandenburg Commander Marquard von Salzbach and pulls him off a horse thrashing on the ground. His fate was sad, although he himself was to blame for it. The fact is that during the meeting of Prince Alexander with the master of the Order in Kovno, he and another knight, according to Dlugosh, insulted the honor of his mother (oh, how we all know this well, don't we ?!) and thus aroused his just anger.


The capture of Marquard von Salzbach

Upon learning of their captivity, he immediately ordered to chop off their heads. Jagiello managed to dissuade the cousin from such an unkind act, but Marquard, facing the prince, inflicted a new insult to him. Well, it is clear that the patience of Alexander on this was exhausted and both knights immediately lost their heads!


Dependent Black

A little higher, again, a knight without a helmet with a spear at the ready and rushes in a purple coat ... it is not clear where and marks it incomprehensibly into whom, but most importantly, this is none other than the famous Polish knight Zavisha Cherny from Gabrov, the coat of arms of Sulim. It is known that they nicknamed him so because he always dressed in black. Why, then, is he a purple cloak? And in addition he has a tournament, not a battle spear. By the way, we see another spear with a blunt tip against the background of the banner of the city of Brownsberg, depicted in the far right corner. The berdysh is also impressive, with holes in the butt, clearly belonging to one of the city's Russian archers or watchmen of the XNUMXth century. Rings were inserted into them, and they thundered at night, bypassing the dark streets with a watch. But why is this here?

In the background, in the same upper right corner, we can see King Vladislav, who did not participate in the battle, unlike cousin Alexander. Which, however, is understandable - just his bodyguards did not let the king fight, because at that time ... he still did not have an heir.


Here they are, “winged hussars”!

Taking a closer look, just between the figure of Zavisi and the king, one can also see something quite strange — the winged Polish hussars with “wings” behind their backs, the “thing” in 1410, well, completely impossible. By the way, under the banner of Brownsberg we see a knight in a helmet with peacock feathers (a clear tribute to the novel of Henryk Sienkiewicz “Crusaders”) of the Bourguignon type, again from a completely different era. And this is not just a bourguignot, but a bourguignot “from Savoy” with a characteristic visor, designed in the form of a grotesque human face.


Bourguignot-Savoyard Italian work (type "Savoy", possibly made for Theodore Agrippa d'Aubigne (1552-1630). Circa 1600-1620. Weight 4391 g


Brownsberg Banner from Jan Dlugosch Book


Knight Banner from Westphalia

Well, of course, the epic picture is added by the figure of the kneeling St. Stanislav, one of the heavenly patrons of Poland, praying for the victory of Polish weapons. For some reason, the wreckage of a knightly spear that had broken due to a blow soar into the sky to him, as if it was impossible to do without this detail.


“Galician Banners in the Battle of Grunwald on July 15, 1410” Painter Arthur Orlonov. Everything is historical here. Except maybe the equestrian crossbowman on the right. And so ... Helmets, armor, everything seems to be copied from a figure from the Metropolitan Museum of Art ... But something seems to be missing? And what exactly? Yes, here's the thing - epic!

As a result, we can say that this painting by Yana Mateyko is certainly a masterpiece and painted expertly, and it has legally gained international fame as a vivid example of romantic nationalism. Nevertheless, there are too many epics in it, but there is almost no historicity at all. However, the master, apparently, when he wrote it, did not set such a task for himself.
133 comments
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  1. +12
    15 February 2020 06: 00
    Liked. And by the way, here is the discussion about planning.

    And you will not pass by the signature: “That's how they are, that's how!”

    This is a new style of names - almost hokku. At least sign a contract with the museums of the world. They can assign the title: “Master of Names”.
  2. +11
    15 February 2020 06: 24
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thanks for the morning warm-up of the head! The article pleased !!!
    Regards, Vlad!
  3. +3
    15 February 2020 06: 42
    Good article! good
    Here one forum member is very interested in Indians and Conquista ... in Ban it laughing
    DEMAND Knights at the table ... well, they promised hi
    1. +7
      15 February 2020 07: 10
      Dear Alexey! I will ... but there is not enough material. And than! There is a plan, but planning is the basis of "Soviet society." Now 6 articles are being moderated, 4 more are in my archive, even if I write it today, it will appear only in 12-14 days. Be patient ...
    2. 0
      15 February 2020 20: 15
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Good article! good
      Here one forum member is very interested in Indians and Conquista ... in Ban it laughing
      DEMAND Knights at the table ... well, they promised hi

      Hey ... laughing ... I want to read about the Incas and the Conquistadors, Leopard Wars and gold ... you like knights that are washed twice in the life of knights - your problems tongue
  4. +7
    15 February 2020 07: 24
    Vyacheslav Oglegovich, thanks for the analysis, but to inspire the picture)))), I saw it with my own eyes.
    1. +7
      15 February 2020 08: 11
      Quote: Lamata
      I saw her firsthand.

      Oh Igor! 5 times was in Poland. And I could not see her. I envy the most colorful envy.
      1. 0
        15 February 2020 12: 06
        so hopefully see.
        1. +4
          15 February 2020 15: 10
          Duc, and I hope, but everything else is disturbed by other, circumstantial circumstances. And to know that you are standing nearby and not be able to enter. It's a shame ...
  5. +5
    15 February 2020 08: 01
    Bravo, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Excellent analysis, excellent selection of fragments. Regarding the size of the horses, I will allow myself to assume that if the artist depicted them on a more decent scale, then the picture would not have enough space for several characters, so I had to save on noble animals. "Executioner" is impressive, apparently not very professional, since he could not earn money for trousers with his craft, so he fights in his panties.
    1. +9
      15 February 2020 09: 56
      Quote: AK1972
      "Executioner" is impressive, apparently not very professional, since he could not earn money for trousers with his craft, so he fights in his panties.

      This is not an executioner at all, it is a wild, naked (due to savagery) Zhmudin of the XNUMXth century, in the view of a Polish intellectual of the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries. laughing
      1. +4
        15 February 2020 10: 10
        Quote: HanTengri
        This is not an executioner at all, it is a wild, naked (due to savagery) Zhmudin of the XNUMXth century, in the view of a Polish intellectual of the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries.

        Haha Funny ...
      2. +7
        15 February 2020 10: 26
        Quote: HanTengri
        the nude (due to savagery) Zhmudin of the XNUMXth century, as presented by a Polish intellectual of the XNUMXth and XNUMXth centuries.

        This is understandable, I just tried to make up, so the executioner quoted the word.
        1. +5
          15 February 2020 10: 28
          Quote: AK1972
          I was just trying to make up

          So I, as it were, too! drinks
      3. 0
        April 2 2020 14: 56
        By that time, the Zhmudins had not yet been converted to Christianity. They were still pagans.
  6. +8
    15 February 2020 08: 15
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    Particularly pleased with the final paragraph.
  7. +5
    15 February 2020 09: 02
    Thank. I am not a connoisseur of the Middle Ages with all of these banners and helmets, so it was probably interesting to read.
  8. -1
    15 February 2020 09: 28
    1984th century Polish helmet. Weight XNUMX Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

    The feathers in the metal on the helmet are beautiful, but not functional
  9. +6
    15 February 2020 09: 34
    Thanks for the picture. I’ll bring my two pennies - in the painting Mateyko such a flea market that in reality is simply impossible. For hand-to-hand combat, space is needed, and here, even for the massacre, there is not enough space.
  10. BAI
    +2
    15 February 2020 09: 38
    There is everything - Poles, Lithuanians, Tatars, Germans. But there are no Russians from the "land of Smolensk". Even then, Russophobia?
    1. +5
      15 February 2020 10: 08
      The Russians, apparently, did not find a place ...
      1. +7
        15 February 2020 10: 30
        Quote: kalibr
        The Russians, apparently, did not find a place ...

        There was also no place for Jan Szketsku and Pan Zaglobe
    2. +5
      15 February 2020 10: 34
      Quote: BAI
      Russophobia then?

      "Even then" is in the XNUMXth century! And they have been "Russophobic" since at least the XNUMXth century.
      1. +3
        15 February 2020 11: 00
        Yes, and the "Galician", ostensibly zhovto-blakytnu banner had to be drawn separately ...
      2. +2
        15 February 2020 18: 10
        Quote: HanTengri
        And they have been "Russophobic" since at least the XNUMXth century.

        Greetings, Igor.
        And why with XV? If the conflicts of Russia with Poland, then they have a much longer history - centuries that way with X. If we talk about the pathological hatred of the Poles to the Russian crown, it seems to me that it begins centuries from the XVIII century, since the time of the partition of Poland and its loss of independence . Why did you choose the XNUMXth century? I really wonder what event in Russian-Polish relations do you think is the point of the report of the beginning of Polish Russophobia?
  11. +4
    15 February 2020 09: 40
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, pleased. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you have passed by one interesting blunder: In Vytautas’s hand there is clearly a Carolingian blade, moreover from the earlier ones (with a rounded point), with a guard and a pommel attached to it, of incomprehensible etymology.
    1. +7
      15 February 2020 10: 08
      Volume, volume of material, and so it went beyond the limit!
    2. +10
      15 February 2020 15: 31
      Yes, and Vitovt himself looks young. Meanwhile, at the time of the battle he was 60 years old.
      "You're still a tough old man, Rosenbaum!" (FROM) laughing
      1. +6
        15 February 2020 18: 14
        Hello to Anton and best wishes. smile
        I once witnessed a funny incident related to the movie "The Crusaders". I watched it right after it was released in Moscow, and then went to visit my aunt in Vilnius. There the film went about half a month later. I remember how a neighboring Pole Jadwiga (Yakha) shared her impressions: "The Poles there are all so dirty, and the Lithuanians are unkempt and in skins." And then he says that after the end of the show, upon leaving the cinema, God forbid, it was necessary to speak Polish, the sides would be bothered. Here is a little story about Grunwald and the friendship of our peoples.
        And what I remember most from the film is the episode from the very beginning of this epic battle, this is when the Tatar cavalry was sent to the knights in the first attack. After the attack, only one Tatar khan rode up to the hill where Vitovt was with the company and urine fell from his horse to the ground. The sound was like from a bag with empty tin cans. And after this, the slaughter has already begun.
        Such are childhood memories. smile drinks
        1. +3
          15 February 2020 20: 39
          friendship of our peoples.
          In this region, from time immemorial, everyone "loves" each other. However, as well as a little to the north.
  12. +2
    15 February 2020 10: 11
    Good picture.
    And bloopers ....
    Well, now historians have managed to put everything on the shelves, and 150 years ago not yet ...
    and for so many characters there aren’t too many of them ...
  13. +6
    15 February 2020 12: 35
    An indelible impression in childhood was made by the film "The Crusaders" based on Senkevich, tragic and heroic at the same time!
    1. +5
      15 February 2020 15: 08
      Yes, and I immediately made a Bundhugel helmet out of paper using it. It is a pity that it was not preserved even in the photo ...
  14. +10
    15 February 2020 13: 05
    Nevertheless, there are too many epics in it, but there is almost no historicity at all.
    Epicness, pathos, crowded scenes - a characteristic feature of the creativity of Jan Matejko. With regard to historicity, art historians believe that Mateiko is very demanding on the accuracy of images of costumes, weapons, elements of architecture, etc. Maybe he was informed incorrectly?
    During the Second World War, the Nazis made a lot of efforts to find and destroy it. They offered 10 million stamps, but no one showed them her whereabouts, and several people lost their lives, but they did not reveal the secret.
    2 million Reichsmarks. Goebbels personally determined the amount.
    By the way, from 1914 to 1922 the picture was in Moscow, as it was taken out of Warsaw, fearing the capture by the Germans. And in 1922, under the terms of the Riga Treaty, the picture of Poland was returned.
    In 1939, the painting was buried in a suburb of Lublin and the Germans were really looking for it, but the British "organized a leak" that the painting had arrived in London, so the Gestapo stopped searching.
    The painting was restored in 1945 - 1949 and 2010-2012.
    1. +6
      15 February 2020 15: 07
      Quote: Undecim
      considered to be art historians

      Or maybe they themselves are illiterate in these matters?
    2. +1
      16 February 2020 12: 23
      A decent amount was assigned by the Germans!

      Prices in Germany, the average salary of a German worker is 130 Reichsmarks:
      1 kg of brown bread 0,28 (464 kg)
      1 kg of white bread 0,36 m (361 kg)
      1 kg boneless pork 1,8 m (72 kg)
      1 kg of cooked sausage 2,70 m (48 kg)
      1 kg of sugar 0,80 m (162 kg)
      1 kg of butter 3 m - maximum price (43 kg)
      1 pair of men's shoes maximum 14,5 m
      1 pair of women's shoes maximum 10,5 m
      men's suit ready 30 - 70 m
      men's suit tailored at the tailor 95 - 275 m
      men's coat finished 45 - 110 m
      men's coat custom-made 90 - 275
      men's shirt 1,5 - 8 m

      German prices are given by Stadt Nürnberg. Inhalt des Statistischen Jahrbuches 1935.

      It is clear that since the beginning of the war, inflation has adjusted course. In 1940, for 1 British f. Art. they gave 20,43 RM, for 1 US dollar - a little less than 5 RM.
      It turns out 400 thousand then bucks!
  15. +4
    15 February 2020 14: 35
    I liked everything) well, except about the size of the horse) tall horses were not always appreciated, and not everyone needed them.
    1. +6
      15 February 2020 15: 06
      Quote: Tonya
      tall horses were not always appreciated, and not everyone needed them.

      Knights did not appreciate tall horses? And the knights, and later cuirassiers only could ride them ...
      1. +6
        15 February 2020 15: 16
        Poles and Lithuanians always had light cavalry in priority, big horses in old Europe are Prussian tradition, the size in this case is not the main thing the Mongols beat knights on their little horses, and after all they also had an analogue of heavy cavalry, there are more likely different tactics and traditions .
      2. +5
        15 February 2020 15: 29
        The widespread belief today that the growth of knightly horses reached 170 cm and above, and their physique resembled Belgian Perchers or horses of the Suffolk breed, is nothing more than a myth. The analysis of fine and archaeological sources, as well as the study of bone remains indicate that in the 147th – 152th centuries the usual growth of war horses varied between 150 and 160 cm at the withers, and by the 540th century they had grown to 590–XNUMX cm. These were strong stocky horses. , with a developed chest and strong muscles, weighing XNUMX-XNUMX kg. Of course, this is more than the average size of the working horses of that time, but still it is not quite up to modern heavy trucks.
        1. +3
          15 February 2020 17: 26
          Quote: Tonya
          Of course, this is more than the average size of the working horses of that time, but still it is not quite up to modern heavy trucks.

          In any case, they are larger than those depicted in the picture.
        2. +1
          15 February 2020 17: 57
          Greetings, what can you say about the growth of Mongolian horses?
          1. +4
            15 February 2020 18: 02

            he was small) growth, you can google the Polish horse (horse breed) so the Mongols have analogues, in the Second World War the German heavyweights captured were put to meat right away, and almost Mongolian horses pulled out the whole war
            1. +3
              15 February 2020 18: 08
              So! In the illustration, a heavily armed horseman, conditionally his height is 160-170 cm. Does the horse mean / subject to all body proportions / at the withers also about 130-140 cm?
              1. +3
                15 February 2020 18: 11
                if you read my comment above, then yes 140 could well be, depending on the breed, the Mongols had one of the smallest horses, but in general, but this is about Europe,
                XI – XII centuries, the usual growth of war horses ranged between 147 and 152 cm at the withers, and by the XIII century they had grown to 150–160 cm
                1. +2
                  15 February 2020 18: 14
                  I see. Thanks for the answer! I always respected the pros!
                  1. +2
                    15 February 2020 18: 18
                    http://konevodstvo.su/books/item/f00/s00/z0000023/st046.shtml
                    look here if interested, horse breeds for the army, there are many small cavalrymen)))
              2. +4
                15 February 2020 18: 14

                if so clearly
                1. +3
                  15 February 2020 18: 19
                  Very good visual! laughing Thank you!
      3. +8
        15 February 2020 15: 54
        Quite right! Robert II de Artois bought three war horses for 240 livres, an insane amount for those times! Meanwhile, it is worth noting that the knight "with moorings", a century earlier, weighed a few (15-20 percent) than in the days of Grunwald.
  16. +3
    15 February 2020 14: 47
    Regarding the production of an attack, the rules were categorical: it was carried out by extremely huge masses at an unusually high speed. Hence the obvious preference for light cavalry: lighter hussar horses had more energetic paces and only they gave maximum attack speed
    it's about a small type of horse)
    1. +4
      15 February 2020 18: 46
      Dear Tonya! First of all, respect and respect from our “Cat” brotherhood (I think the guys and girls will support me). It’s rare that such narrow specialists come to us. We have been interested in Konyashkin Question for a long time, and therefore your opinion is valuable!
      And now I offer you the topic of discussion. I assume that your confidence in understanding the layman of the “laws of physics” at the time of the events described is slightly optimistic! Dense mass - a “lava” thing is good and on the battlefield found all applications even in the last century! But always losing regular heavy cavalry! There was no full awareness of the advantages of speed and maneuver until the 18th century! Hence the constant attempts to revive the cuirassiers, cavalry guards, etc.
      For example, in recent years, Catherine the Great, Russia received an effective light cavalry in the form of horse rangers, but the turn of history revived the heavy cavalry. Which practice proved (Austerlitz) proved her powerlessness against the infantry, but showed superiority over the light cavalry (Borodino).
      Regards, Kote!
      P.S. Dog lovers among us too.
      1. +3
        15 February 2020 18: 57
        Vladislav! The structure of the light cavalry included not only horse rangers, which you know! But all these desperate guys lost to her-artillery! As for the heavy cavalry.
        1. +3
          15 February 2020 19: 21
          Good evening! I meant that in the form of horse rangers we got the quasistence of universal light cavalry on tactics of equipment and weapons! Alas, after the death of Catherine in this matter, we ran after fashion and not always successfully!
          The best horse artillery we received at the time of Arakcheev. Alas, the horse rangers of the Potemkin model we no longer had. I was always wondering if, near Austerlitz, the French did not remove His Majesty's Cuirassiers, but horse rangers?
          1. +2
            15 February 2020 19: 26
            Vladislav! Excuse me for God's sake! But! The best light cavalry is this! Who? Hussars! And Sir Arthur Conan Doyle agrees with me! And personally the team leader Gerard. laughing
    2. +3
      15 February 2020 19: 49
      Quote: Tonya
      Regarding the production of an attack, the rules were categorical: it was carried out by extremely huge masses at an unusually high speed.

      It seems to me that here you are just mistaken.
      In relation to the heavy cavalry of the beginning of the XV century. it is safe to say that she attacked with a ram blow of a cached spear. A hit, then either chopping (very rare), or chasing, or retreating and turning for a new attack. Such an attack is most effective in a tight formation consisting of a maximum of three lines, usually two. The rest simply will not be able to take part in combat contact and will interfere with the departure if necessary. The infantry was built in deeper formations because the rear ranks, pushing the front ranks, ensured the pressure and stability of the formation, this is impossible in equestrian formation. Instead of building a heavy cavalry in five or six lines, the last lines can be sent to attack another section or used to cover the retreat of the first, if any.
      The attack went slowly, accelerating only in the last few tens of meters. There were two good reasons for this. The first is the need to maintain the system before the final jerk, because the horses are different, the riders have a temperament, besides, it was often necessary to go on the attack under fire, and if one horse collapses at full gallop, then there is a significant risk of tripping over and following her will fall, which is fraught with blockage. The second is the need to save the strength of horses that had to drag a fair amount of weight. Something else performed by the knights is the invention of modern filmmakers, who, like the author of the picture under discussion, are chasing entertainment and epic.
      An attack in a deep loose formation at a high speed (lava) is characteristic only of light cavalry and only if the same (similar) unit is attacked or the retreating enemy is pursued. At the same time, I draw your attention to the fact that during the period under review, almost all light cavalry was horse archers and nothing else, and this is a completely different tactic, which does not involve hand-to-hand combat in principle. Before the appearance of ulans and hussars, at least another century, and the hussars from the very beginning were precisely heavy cavalry.
      Under Grunwald, almost all cavalry was heavy, with the exception of a small contingent of light-Tatars, who had no particular influence on the course of the battle.
      1. +2
        15 February 2020 20: 35
        horses from this will not become higher)))) specifically it was a horse on the canvas) the one that at withers 150 can be attributed to any kind of cavalry but the fact that it is not huge is obvious, and the acting hero carried out general command on it judging according to the description of the chronology, but did not cut epicly on a nonexistent heavyweight in the ranks of the enemy)
      2. +4
        15 February 2020 20: 46
        The емemaiti horse, known in written sources from the VI century as an excellent war horse, became famous during the Northern Crusades [. On horses of this breed, Lithuanian prince Vytautas took part in the Battle of Grunwald. As a rule, a Zhemaitsev with a characteristic dark stripe on his back. The color of horses can be bay, bay, black, or salted with a golden overflow. The Zhemaiti horse is usually 1,28-1,42 m tall (4 feet 2 inches - 4 feet 8 inches) at the withers, which makes it the highest among pony breeds))
        In September-October 2010, the project “2000 kilometers of history” was launched with the goal of popularizing the емemaiti horse. The meaning of the project was to ride a horse on the Zhemaiti horse to drive thousands of kilometers through Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, the legendary route of Prince Vitovt, the ruler of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, who, according to legend, watered his horses in the Black Sea))
        1. +3
          15 February 2020 21: 08
          Quote: Tonya
          On horses of this breed, Lithuanian prince Vytautas took part in the Battle of Grunwald. As a rule, a Zhemaitsev with a characteristic dark stripe on his back.

          Very interesting! Thanks!
      3. +1
        15 February 2020 20: 47
        ) biology is a stubborn thing) google - Jamaican horse
        1. +2
          15 February 2020 21: 08
          I didn't argue about the size of the horses. I have analyzed a specific thought you expressed regarding the "rules of production of an attack", which I consider at least controversial. As for the size of horses, the evolution of breeds, etc., I am rather inclined to agree with you - not all horses were large, although it was the large ones that were especially valued in heavy cavalry. Actually, it is precisely for this reason that they "grew" over time, because they were selected for military purposes, they selected large ones, as more suitable for service in heavy cavalry, which until the XNUMXth century. was the dominant force on the battlefields in Europe.
          1. 0
            15 February 2020 21: 14
            this incidentally, the quote was from the manual on equestrian combat) I do not remember whose but the quote is easy to read. He brought in the context that the size of the horse does not interfere in general), but it should be easy to maneuver.
            1. 0
              15 February 2020 22: 53
              Quote: Tonya
              the quote was from a horse fighting instruction

              Most likely, centuries XVIII - XIX, not earlier. It looks like Frederick the Great. By the beginning of the XNUMXth century it cannot be related.
            2. -2
              April 20 2020 17: 41
              Oh, I love women, but I don’t like when they go to wherever with an ear or a snout, and even with aplomb
              1. 0
                April 20 2020 18: 25
                dear, ry ... m in someone else's dialogue and even then, you’re just climbing, and it’s just not informative.
                1. -1
                  April 20 2020 18: 27
                  But do not tell me such a simple thing, but how many horses did the Mongols of the USSR in the WWI sell?
                  1. 0
                    April 20 2020 18: 28
                    I will tell you a lot more than 500 tons
                    1. -1
                      April 20 2020 18: 31
                      Yeah, about 500 thousand of the more than 35 million used, calculate the percentage?
                      1. 0
                        April 20 2020 18: 33
                        you can use it with different results, remove the angle and say how to touch the horse on the canvas
                      2. -1
                        April 20 2020 18: 34
                        And yet, for 25 years I regularly ride in horseback with a spear and a shield on horseback, the sport is like this, your Mongolian horse will break, and there are documents about the minimum growth of cuirassier horses of the 19th century, I don’t know earlier but I think the trend is the same
                      3. 0
                        April 20 2020 18: 45
                        With the correct physique and the absence of diseases and defects, repair horses should have a height at the withers of not lower: 147 cm - riding horses (local breeds - not lower than 142 cm), 151 cm - artillery, 145 cm - pack and 136 cm - convoys. The metacarpal girth for riding horses was allowed at less than 18 cm, for artillery horses - at least 19 cm. Horses of all stripes were accepted, except for piebald. We have a picture of what age ... Operate with such horses, there is a specific breed, she is still alive, that’s all. Under the Mongols she didn’t break down, they had heavy cavalry and knights bent) and beneath you is a hero)) ))))) all honestly) thank you smiled
                      4. -1
                        April 20 2020 18: 54
                        Duc 150 kilo and gallop, and the main thing cavalry infantry does not attack is death, but in order to take down another rider from dispersal, mass is needed, that's why the larger the horse the better
                      5. 0
                        April 20 2020 18: 57
                        Well then, you need to fight in tournament armor, the Zhemait horse is the breed of horse in the picture, then I take my leave, I have nothing to tell you))))) and even if the cavalry does not attack the infantry, this is without comment)))))))))) the peak of the Polish hussars is crying))) 6 meters probably for the cavalrymen did) honestly do not answer no strength)
                      6. -1
                        April 20 2020 19: 05
                        In what battle the cavalry attacked the organized infantry, well, apart from the Reytars, it’s clear, but I’m a professional military lieutenant colonel, I studied military history, and you are a rude girl, and this is a sign of powerlessness
                      7. -1
                        April 20 2020 19: 08
                        And the tournament armor differs from the combat current by the helmet, and by the reinforcement of the left side of the cuirass, so on very many combat left holes, just to mount for the tournament
                      8. 0
                        April 21 2020 13: 07
                        Sometimes one phrase is enough to excuse yourself, "burn out", "do it" and show your lies and falsehood.
                        And here is yours: "... and I am a professional military lieutenant colonel, .." - THIS IS EXACTLY SUCH PHRASE.
                        It used to be: "I am a simple daughter of a Russian officer from the Crimea ..."
                        You are nobody, and there is no way to call you.
                        You are the next provocateur on VO.
                      9. 0
                        April 20 2020 18: 37
                        According to official figures, the regular number of horses in the troops was 1,9 million heads.
                        write immediately 100)))) good luck, you're not a very interesting conversationalist)
                      10. -1
                        April 20 2020 18: 39
                        This is a full-time at a particular moment, and in just four years more than 35 million have been put into the army
                      11. -1
                        April 20 2020 18: 41
                        And then it will turn out that there are 5 million participants
      4. +2
        15 February 2020 21: 09
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        more often than two.

        D. Nicole writes a lot about this and there are a number of reconstructions of such an attack. I'll find it somehow ...
  17. +5
    15 February 2020 15: 22
    Quote: kalibr
    Or maybe they themselves are illiterate in these matters?

    I don’t know. This should be a separate study to find out the level of art historians who wrote about the work of Mateiko. If this is the level of, say, Springer or Gedeonov, this is serious.
  18. +8
    15 February 2020 16: 28
    Hello to the respectable public! I liked the article. I liked the comments. I didn’t like the picture. If in a nutshell, then: * mixed horses, people ... *. Mateyko has more interesting paintings, for example * Stefan Batory near Pskov *, * The decline of Poland *, * Prussian tribute *. Here, if the Germans were hunting for the latter, I would understand. But, as always, this is purely my opinion. hi
    1. +3
      15 February 2020 17: 12
      Mateiko also has more interesting paintings, for example
      ,,, "Tsar Shuisky in the Sejm in Warsaw"?
      1. +2
        15 February 2020 17: 46
        I saw it, but I’m also not enthusiastic about it. Why? I’m certainly not a connoisseur of painting and often adhere to the principle * I like it, I don’t like it *. But these two paintings for me personally just did not play. At the same time * Stanchik * I like . hi
      2. +3
        15 February 2020 17: 48
        But in general, I’m very good. I love Aivazovsky! His paintings are beautiful! Technique! Play of light! Colors! Yes, and the plot! how could you do without him!
  19. +2
    15 February 2020 16: 51
    I once read "Krestonovtsev" by Pan Senkevich. Did not impress.
    1. +4
      15 February 2020 18: 21
      To each his own! And its coming in due time!
      Sorry for the tautology !!!
      hi
      1. +4
        15 February 2020 18: 31
        Vladislav, I welcome you! * Your call is very important to us! * And what is your opinion about the picture? It is about the picture!
        1. +4
          15 February 2020 19: 11
          Salute! I scored for work, I’m lying in the bathroom and share my opinion!
          Many, bright, epic and pathos - this is not always good! Sometimes there are canvases that cause their palette of colors, the density of events, the significance of the story and the line of characters to cast soul and consciousness into efforia! You can learn history from them, they become the matrix of the nation, a marker of self-identification and self-awareness !!!
          But, but again but - I like Aivazovsky! Blue-blue sky, blue-blue sea, which simultaneously scares and calls, terrifies and delights, disturbs, tears the soul and caresses the heart with its grandeur and infinity. makes you worry, rejoice, mourn and admire, repel and not let go. Watching his work, you feel like a god who is given the opportunity to comprehend the plan of the creator and the longer you comprehend him, the more you realize your worthlessness !!! Probably so!
          Although I have a “crooked taste”, I always felt sorry for Ivan the Terrible who killed his son! For me, this is a symbol - an irreparable mistake !!!
          Regards, Vlad!
          P.S. The fight of Peresvet with Chelubey has always been considered a classic of patriotism! The point that has the present !!!
          1. +3
            15 February 2020 19: 20
            Vladislav! Well, you right-poet! Damn it! So beautifully express my thoughts?! As I wrote above Aivazovsky I LOVE !!!! A real Russian artist! RUSSIAN! For his work belongs to Russia. Pardon for high words, but it AIVAZOVSKY!
            1. +3
              15 February 2020 19: 23
              drinks good good drinks
              I subscribe to your every word!
              1. +3
                15 February 2020 19: 32
                No! No! No! Only after you !!! So to formulate? Let me admire you? Alas, not me, but a classic. Yes, yes it is Mikhail Bulgakov.
              2. +3
                15 February 2020 19: 50
                But I love impressionism request Well, I'm a renegade! laughing
                1. +2
                  15 February 2020 19: 55
                  My God! Anton! Are you a traitor? To whom have you changed? Question of questions, why ???? drinks
                  1. +3
                    15 February 2020 19: 59
                    ,,, "kapets" belay I stand on the sidelines, not only did the bear step on my ear, but probably on my eyes too laughing
                    1. +2
                      15 February 2020 20: 14
                      Sergey! Stand aside ???? laughing No !! Turn on!
                      1. +3
                        15 February 2020 20: 19
                        ,,, I like the landscapes, especially autumn ones ,,, sadness rolls over, you remember your childhood crying
                      2. +1
                        15 February 2020 20: 22
                        My friend, who is this? Not Levitan, for sure.
                      3. +2
                        15 February 2020 20: 23
                        ,,, just an example.
                      4. +1
                        15 February 2020 20: 42
                        Friend! Stuck, who is this ??? You are welcome?
                      5. +1
                        15 February 2020 20: 53
                        Friend! Didn't answer the question!
                      6. +2
                        15 February 2020 21: 02
                        Maybe Pushkin?
                  2. +1
                    15 February 2020 20: 07
                    Che immediately "traitor" ??? I always said: "I never liked it on this planet" (c). And I love dogs more than cats.
                    1. +2
                      15 February 2020 20: 12
                      And * renegade * who designated himself? Al * renegade *? There is a difference.
                      1. +2
                        15 February 2020 20: 24
                        Well, I agree, I used the term incorrectly.
                        But dogs and "impression", all the same, I love more than cats and Aivazovsky! laughing
                      2. +2
                        15 February 2020 20: 48
                        Aivazovsky and beautiful cats / cats) You, the gracious sovereign did not see. It's a shame, you understand !!!!
                      3. +2
                        15 February 2020 20: 57
                        I saw both of them in the Hermitage. laughing
                      4. +1
                        15 February 2020 21: 03
                        Antoine! I'm sorry I'm drunk, alas! The day was such ... see you glad to talk !;
                      5. +2
                        16 February 2020 19: 46
                        Good evening Anton!
                        In the first place you have a friend - dogs!
                        On the second - "impression" !!
                        On the third - cats !!!
                        Where are the girls !!!? AND feel what is an "impression"!
                      6. +2
                        16 February 2020 20: 04
                        Glad to welcome, Vlad!
                        "Impressa" - impressionism.
                        My girls are already grandmothers. As my uncle used to say: "It's not scary to be a grandfather, it's scary to sleep with your grandmother!"
                      7. +2
                        15 February 2020 21: 33
                        "On the renegade, the renegade tricked Gulliver,
                        And the simpleton stole a large frigate from the infidels "(c).
            2. +3
              15 February 2020 21: 05
              You need to visit Feodosia. There is a wonderful museum of Aivazovsky and a lot of his paintings
              1. +1
                15 February 2020 21: 11
                Vyacheslav Olegovich !!!!! And I drink and drink everything, call me !!! But! It's temporary, you know !!!
              2. Fat
                +2
                16 February 2020 13: 57
                Quote: kalibr
                You need to visit Feodosia. There is a wonderful museum of Aivazovsky and a lot of his paintings

                There was ... Wonderful.
                And the guides are good ...
                Such legends were told about Aivazov.
                And the truth is, this artist was more than attentive to details.
  20. +6
    15 February 2020 17: 58
    Good evening, dear friends! hi Vyacheslav another "portion" of my gratitude for the excellent analysis of Matejko's painting. Such work should definitely be viewed "live", no, even the most luxurious reproduction will ever allow you to make a complete impression of such a canvas.
    1. +3
      15 February 2020 18: 18
      Konstantin, my friend! Well, let's be more specific about what you liked about her. Otherwise, I feel somehow dull! laughing
      1. +6
        15 February 2020 18: 23
        Hello, Sergey! Specifically, I liked the analysis of all the little things and details. For example, I never paid attention at all to a knife in the hand of some zamuldryn behind Jan Zhizhka, but Vyacheslav with this knife brought out a whole version with an attempt on the "people's hero". Yes, there is not one such episode, see for yourself. smile
        1. +3
          15 February 2020 18: 29
          Clearly! So from the point of view of the gunsmith we look at the beautiful, right? laughingSword Knives!
          1. +4
            15 February 2020 18: 37
            Honestly, I'm not only interested in "knives". hi
            1. +3
              15 February 2020 18: 40
              Pancake! I wrote something wrong. hiI got tired of work! A thousand apologies!
  21. +3
    15 February 2020 20: 23
    Correct at the beginning. The helmet is not called the Bundesgugel, but the Hundsgugel. Dog face. A dog in German is Hund.
    1. +3
      15 February 2020 21: 01
      Always confused the BUND party and the HUND helmet!
      1. +3
        15 February 2020 21: 15
        It could be worse. Some matzos and matsoni are considered to be related words ...
  22. +1
    15 February 2020 20: 38
    I’m wondering how to wear the Bourguignot-Savoyard, this helmet seems to be solid, how to push your head into the narrow throat of the helmet?
    1. +2
      15 February 2020 21: 00
      He was revealing. Connected on a gorget on a hook.
  23. +2
    15 February 2020 20: 41
    ,,, can anyone know what kind of shield recourse in the articles of Vyacheslav O. did not come across this.
    1. +2
      15 February 2020 20: 53
      ,,, can anyone know what kind of shield
      This is tarch.
    2. +1
      16 February 2020 19: 49
      Tharch! I was enlightened about two months ago !!!
  24. 0
    16 February 2020 16: 26
    And in the Soviet school we were taught that there was no need for Polish-Lithuanian knights, but they were silent about the Tatar cavalry. Three Russian Smolensk regiments were enough to defeat the crusaders.
    1. +1
      16 February 2020 19: 14
      Then they taught that the Germans on Lake Peipsi also sank under the ice and drowned ... Although not even a word is said about this in Pravda (Editorial!) Of April 5, 1942!
  25. +2
    16 February 2020 18: 46
    In general, the "spear of fate" is the spear of the centurion Longinus in the hands of the master's killer is very strange
    It turns out on the one hand, a sacred weapon in the hands of a pagan, a sign of Providence. On the other hand, is Ulrich likened to Jesus?
    By the way, the artist could not know that this is a sacred symbol for the SRI and the Habsburgs. It was one of the objects on which they took an oath at the coronation. Maybe the third meaning is to perish from the sacred symbol of your own nation?
  26. +2
    16 February 2020 18: 53
    The famous "Grunwald battle" of the Polish artist Jan Matejko. The painting was painted in 1878. Its dimensions are 426 × 987 cm. It is located in the National Museum in Warsaw.

    It can be added that the painting was sold by the author in February 1878 to the Warsaw financier David Rosenblum for 45 Austro-Hungarian guilders (the total weight of money paid for the painting was five hundred and fifty-five kilograms of three hundred grams of silver of the 000th test).
    It was later bought from the heirs of Rosenblum and ended up in the Warsaw Museum of Fine Arts. After the start of the First World War, the painting was evacuated to Moscow, returned to Warsaw after the conclusion of the Riga Peace Treaty.
  27. 0
    17 February 2020 21: 32
    assembled the puzzle production like Trefl with one of the parts of the picture