Military Review

405 years ago, the Minin and Pozharsky people's militia freed Moscow from foreign invaders

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405 years ago, 4 - 5 in November 1612, the Minin and Pozharsky people's militia liberated Moscow from foreign invaders. In the bloody Troubles of the beginning of the XVII century, when the Russian state was already divided between the invaders "from the then" world community ", and the enemies were sitting in the Kremlin and Moscow, there was a radical change. Prince Pozharsky and Minin, in the midst of despondency and ruin, a bloody massacre in the dying country, led the people and found the strength to knock the enemy out of the Russian capital and begin the process of restoring Russian statehood.


The Russian state at that time was experiencing a deep spiritual and socio-political crisis. With the simultaneous activation of external hostile forces that tried to take advantage of the civil war and the destruction of statehood in Russia. The internal crisis in Russia was caused by the dynastic crisis and the struggle of the boyars' families for power, which put the country on the brink of disaster. The Boyars clans, trying to retain their former power, and not allow Ivan the Terrible to establish autocracy, entered into an alliance with foreign forces and harassed the great king and his heirs. The straight line of Rurikovich was stopped.

One of the conspirators, Boris Godunov, took the throne, was a strong ruler and carried out a soft westernization of Russia, but could not stop the intrigues of other boyar clans (including the Romanovs). At the same time, social justice was violated in Russia. The government and the boyars took the path of enslaving the peasantry (the overwhelming majority of the population). Climate distress and crop failure 1601 – 1602 and the terrible famine that followed, which claimed tens of thousands of lives, exacerbated the social situation to unprecedented heights. In 1603, the Cotton Rebellion began.

Exacerbated and external conditions. Poland and Lithuania united in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, with the support of the Roman throne, hurried to take advantage of Russia's weakness. Polish magnates wanted to plunder Russia, to seize its western regions. Later, when the collapse of the Russian state became apparent, plans appeared for the full occupation of Russia, with the gradual elimination of Orthodoxy. The appearance in Poland of a young nobleman, Gregory Otrepiev, who declared himself “miraculously saved” by prince Dmitry, was a gift to Polish magnates and then to King Sigismund III. The Poles — first the separate magnates and gentry, and then the royal power — supported the impostor. At the same time, apparently, the very idea of ​​an impostor belonged to a part of the Russian boyars, oppositional to Godunov, including the Romanovs. That is, the Russian boyars themselves arranged the Troubles and most of the initiators of the civil war in Russia later not only were not punished, but occupied the highest posts in the state, including the place of the patriarch.

More about the Troubles in a series of articles in: Folk hero Kuzma Minin and Smoot; How the False Dmitry I was killed; How suppressed the uprising Bolotnikov; How the False Dmitry II tried to take Moscow; The ruin of the Russian land. Heroic defense of the Trinity Monastery of St. Sergius; Skopin-Shuisky hike; How did the Polish invasion begin? Completion of the liberation of Moscow by the army of Skopin-Shuisky; The heroic defense of Smolensk; How the Polish army stormed Smolensk; Klushinskaya catastrophe of the Russian army; How Russia almost became a colony of Poland, Sweden and England; “The time has come for the feat!” How the First Militia was created; How the Poles burned Moscow; How the First Militia tried to free Moscow; How Minin and Pozharsky created the Second Militia; The capital of the Second Militia in Yaroslavl; Battle of the Russian capital; As the Polish army of hetman Khodkevich suffered a defeat near Moscow.

At the end of the year 1604, having accepted Catholicism, False Dmitry I entered Russia with a small army. Dissatisfied with the central government, southern cities, noblemen and Cossacks began to cross over to his side. In 1605, Boris Godunov was poisoned, and his son, the heir, was eliminated. The Moscow boyars went over to the side of an impostor who was recognized as the legitimate son of Ivan Vasilyevich. In June, an impostor 1605 became Tsar Dmitry I for almost a year. However, he did not become “parsley on the throne,” as the boyars would have liked, tried to pursue his policy, moreover the boyars were dissatisfied with the strengthening of the Poles in Moscow. The boyars organized a new conspiracy, and in May 1606, an uprising occurred. Impostor killed. The throne was occupied by the Shuisky clan - the boyar Vasily Shuisky “cried out” the king, who promised to rule with the Boyar Duma, not to impose disgrace and not to execute without trial.

However, Smoot only gained strength. By the summer of 1606, rumors about a new miraculous rescue of Tsar Dmitry spread throughout the country. In Putivl, an uprising broke out under the leadership of the escaped serf Ivan Bolotnikov, who declared himself the commander of the tsar Dmitry. This uprising had already taken on the character of a peasant war, and peasants, serfs, archers, Cossacks and nobles joined it en masse. The rebels even reached Moscow, laid siege to her, but were defeated. In the summer of 1607, the royal governors were able to suppress the uprising. Bolotnikov was captured and executed. In the meantime, all the discontented, including the broken Bolotnikovites, concentrated around False Dmitry II (its origin is not known for sure, there are several versions). He was supported by the Cossacks, led by Ataman Ivan Zarutsky and groups of Polish adventurers who wanted to "walk" nicely in Russia. In the summer of 1608, the troops of the new impostor settled in the village of Tushino near Moscow (hence the nickname “Tushinsky thief”), and besieged Moscow.

Since that time, the Russian state has actually broken up into two parts: there were two kings in the country, the government, the Boyar Duma, and two parallel control systems were built. In Tushino there was even a patriarch - Filaret (Romanov). Polish detachments scattered around the country, robbed and burned, and “thieves' Cossacks” and bandit groups acted in the same spirit. Russia sank in the fire, the wave of violence and blood. Tsar Shuisky was unable to crush the Tushino people on his own, and in February 1609 of the year entered into an agreement with Sweden hostile to Poland. Having given the Russian fortress Korela to the Swedes, having promised big money, he received military assistance, and the Russian-Swedish army, under the command of Mikhail Skopin-Shuisky and Delagardi, liberated a number of cities in the north of the country. Many cities, tired of the atrocities on the part of the Poles (the largest detachments were among the hetmans of Ruzhinsky and Sapieha, and of Lisovsky) and the Tushins, were separated from the impostor. However, the appearance of Swedish troops in Russia gave the Polish king the opportunity to launch an open intervention. In the fall of 1609, Polish troops laid siege to Smolensk. The heroic defense of the city continued until the summer of 1611. The Poles were able to break into Smolensk only when the Russian garrison fell almost completely.

At the same time, most of the Polish detachments that were in the service of the Tushino thief went over to their king, continuing to ravage the Russian lands. Tushino camp broke up. False Dmitry II fled to Kaluga. Some supporters of the “Tushinsky Tsar” went to the king, others behind the impostor to Kaluga. The Tushino patriarch Filaret and the boyars concluded an agreement with Sigismund III, according to which the son of King Vladislav was to become the Russian tsar. Acting on behalf of Vladislav, Sigismund III generously favored the Tushino land, which did not belong to him. Polish troops seized a number of cities in the west and south-west of Russia. And the impostor, freed from the influence of the Poles, began to pursue a "patriotic" policy, seize and execute the Poles. Kaluga "thief" swore that he would not give the Poles a single inch of the Russian land, but together with all the people he would die for the Orthodox faith. This appeal has found a response among many. False Dmitry II again attracted many supporters and led the war with two sovereigns: Tsar Basil and King Sigismund III. He again swore many cities. Kaluga for a time was the second capital of Russia.

In March 1610, the troops of Skopin-Shuisky solemnly entered liberated Moscow. However, the growing popularity of Skopin-Shuisky caused the king and the boyars to envy and fear. Many people wanted to see the successful commander Skopin-Shuisky on the royal throne, and not the hated Vasily Shuisky, especially the talentless brother of Tsar Dmitry Ivanovich Shuisky (he was heir, as Vasily had no sons). Skopin-Shuisky was preparing for the beginning of spring to come out of Moscow to help besieged Smolensk, but he was poisoned. The army that went to liberate Smolensk was led by Dmitry Shuisky, who had no military talents. 24 June 1610 The Russian-Swedish army was defeated at Klushin. Part of the troops went over to the side of the Poles.

A strong Polish detachment under the leadership of the crown hetman Zolkiewski moved to Moscow. From the south to Moscow the second time led the troops False Dmitry II. The impostor settled in the village of Kolomenskoye. In July, 1610 in Moscow, there was another palace coup. Basil Shuisky was overthrown and forcibly tonsured as a monk. The provisional boyar government - the Seven Boyars - went into direct national treason. 17 August 1610, the boyars government headed by Fyodor Mstislavsky, entered into an agreement with hetman Zolkiewski and, relying on the Treaty of Smolensk, chose Vladislav as the king. The Moscow boyars and nobles kissed the cross to the foreign king. However, in the capital and province, Vladislav was not popular.

In most of the lands of Russia continued unrest. Poles, “thieves Cossacks” and bandits committed atrocities. There were new impostors. In the west and north of the land, Polish and Swedish invaders were seized. Some cities kissed the cross to the boyar government and Vladislav, others to the False Dmitry, and some localities lived on their own. In the capital, many began to draw closer to the Kaluga "thief" and secretly refer to his people. The myth of the good son of Grozny again began to seize the imagination of the people. The self-styled king was sworn in by the population of many cities and villages, including those who had fought him stubbornly before. The real threat from the impostor prompted Seven Boyars to a closer alliance with the Poles. Under the pressure of Hetman Zolkiewski, the impostor detachments retreated to Kaluga. In December, an impostor was killed during an internal conflict.

The national liberation movement, which was already apparent during the False Dmitry II, was continued in the First and Second militias. At the head of the first militia was the Ryazan nobleman Procopius Lyapunov, who was joined by supporters of the impostor: Princes Dmitry Trubetskoy, Grigory Shakhovskaya, Masalsky, Cherkasy and others. Cossacks led by ataman Ivan Zarutsky also went over to the side of the militia. In March 1611, the militia approached Moscow. The townspeople rebelled. To help the residents of the city rushed forward militia. Prince Pozharsky was among the militia commanders; he was seriously wounded in battle. To keep the city the Poles set fire to Moscow. When the main forces of the First Militia approached the walls of Moscow, the White soldiers, the Earthen city and part of China-town, were liberated by the Russian soldiers. They chose a provisional government - the “Council of the whole earth,” headed by Lyapunov, Trubetskoy and Zarutsky. However, the militia leaders were in conflict, the nobles and the Cossacks could not find a common language. As a result, Lyapunov was killed and the noble detachments dispersed under the houses. The remnants of the militia led by Trubetskoy and Zarutsky remained in Moscow, mostly Cossacks.

The situation in the country remained extremely difficult, it seemed that the collapse and death of Russia were already inevitable. The Crimean horde, without meeting resistance, destroyed the Ryazan Territory. Smolensk after a long siege fell, the Swedes seized the northern Russian cities and occupied Novgorod. In December 1611, Pskov took the oath of the new impostor False Dmitry III. New impostor recognized the north-western cities. However, the Russian people could organize and repel the invaders. In the autumn of 1611, on the initiative of the elder Kuzma Minin and invited them as military leader Dmitry Pozharsky in Nizhny Novgorod, the Second Militia was formed. In February, the Second Militia marched to the capital. However, in March, the remnants of the First Militia swore allegiance to False Dmitry III. Under these conditions, the leaders of the Second Militia made Yaroslavl their capital, where the same provisional government was created as that of the first Militia, the Council of All the Earth. The militia stood here for four months, arranging the army and the "land". Zamoskovny, Volga and Pomeranian cities sent their military forces and the collected treasury to Yaroslavl. Kuzma Minin re-organized the system of territory management, which refused to recognize the power of the next impostor. The impostor himself did not last long in Pskov. The “Pskov Thief” turned out to be a mediocre military leader, also a rotten man — greedy and dissolute. A conspiracy arose against False Dmitry III, the impostor was captured and sent under escort to Moscow, on the way he was killed.

Minin and Pozharsky wanted to assemble in Yaroslavl a “general Zemstvo council” and elect a sovereign. Here, Prince Pozharsky was the first candidate, and apparently the best - a skilled, brave and honest warrior. In addition, from an ancient family - people from Starodubsky princes of Suzdal land carried their kind from the Grand Duke of Vladimir Vsevolod Yuryevich, son of Yuri Dolgoruky. However, a number of circumstances forced the militia to go to Moscow. In August 1612 it approached Moscow. In September, the Second Militia, with the support of the Cossacks from the First Militia, defeated the troops of Hetman Chodkiewicz, who was trying to unite with the Polish garrison, which controlled the Moscow Kremlin.

To be continued ...
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 4 November 2017 04: 49 New
    13
    405 years ago, November 4 - 5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky freed Moscow from foreign invaders
    and therefore, today is National Unity Day with Moscow? there was no stupider holiday in the country. (however, thanks for the weekend)
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 4 November 2017 06: 55 New
      16
      Quote: Dead Day
      and therefore, today is National Unity Day with Moscow?

      fool
      Unity Day throughout the country, including Moscow, the capital of the state, liberated 405 years ago.

      The most important date in the history of the country: if it were not possible to destroy the Poles, there would be no Russia.
      There would be a great Poland to Moscow, Sweden to Vologda and Turkey to Orel ...

      Statements that it was too long and therefore today is not so important are complete nonsense. The event is epoch-making and significant, which should and should be celebrated.


      Israelis celebrate the battle that happened more than 2 thousand years ago! And they are right, as long as they remember their story, they exist. This is true for everyone.

      Therefore, all Russians-WITH HOLIDAY!
      1. Rinat79
        Rinat79 4 November 2017 08: 11 New
        +3
        Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, this is all fiction; I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing history for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!
        1. venaya
          venaya 4 November 2017 08: 54 New
          +5
          Quote: Rinat79
          Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, it's all fiction. I personally don’t believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! All my life Russia came up with a story and rewrote it as it suits her !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!

          Russia never wrote and naturally could not rewrite its history, since "history" and other stories were not written in Russia and non-Russians. Russia had its knowledge in the form of the Vedas. The Vedas in translation from Draene-Russian and even the current dialect of the Belarusian language are called Vedas, that is, Knowledge = Vedas. There are many Vedas, the Indian Vedas are preserved in the ancient "holy language" = Sanskrit. There are Vedas Avesta, also the ancient Russian Vedas, and released the Russian Vedas in the XNUMXth century, under Alexander II. A more ancient source is called the “Book of Veles”, there was such a God in Russia, from him comes the name of the province in the British Isles - “Wells”, they may have heard. So, no “stories” were ever written in Russia, all these are bullies, in Russia they wrote only the truth, only what happened. Fictional foreigners write and always rewrite stories of fiction, keep this in mind and do not take the wrong people for honest people, this is not good, it's not fair.
          1. anderson
            anderson 4 November 2017 13: 10 New
            +6
            Why repeat the pseudo-Russian delirium. Archeology does not know any evidence of the presence of any Russian Vedas, since the very concept of Russian belongs, God forbid, to the 14th century .. In the 7-8 centuries, the Slavs began to move north along the Danube, Vistula, Dnieper and Lovat. The Normans paved the way from Scandinavia to Byzantium and the Caspian for silver, who had permanent settlements along this route in places of particular importance for wintering and repair of ships — Staraya Ladoga 756 (Lyubsha) in front of the Volkhov rapids, Gnezdovo around 863 (Smolensk) in the area of ​​the lugs from Lovat through the Dvina to the Dnieper and back. , Izborsk on the Velikaya River, and Belozero on the way to the Caspian. For the period of the 8-9th century, not a single Slavic city (large settlement) is known without a Varangian presence. Moreover, the Varangians based on excavation materials in all these places were the dominant nobility. In their graves are found the richest jewelry and weapons.
            And for your information, history cannot be written, it consists of different sources - archeology, written sources of own and written sources of surrounding countries.
            1. venaya
              venaya 4 November 2017 16: 09 New
              +5
              Quote: anderson
              ..for your information, history cannot be written, it consists of various sources- archeology, written sources of own and written sources of surrounding countries.

              What was it? Are you also trying to classify yourself as "victims of the exam"? Look at least at your own nickname: “Anderson” - you didn’t happen to notice that it consists of two roots of “Andes” - people in Greek, and “dream” - clearly Russian, but in a Scandinavian dialect, because in Scandinavia before Charles XII they still spoke and composed official papers in Russian. According to the research of the President of the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Ingushetia A.S. Shishkov in his book "Korneslov", written as early as 200 years ago. It states that all modern languages ​​are descended from ancient Russian. Maybe you didn’t read it? Modern scholars call figures at 30-60 thousand years of age of this very ancient language, proto-language. You are talking about archeology, and it confirms these data of linguistics, which is worth only the inscription of the word "corcodil" they found, also like the "nickname" of a two-root and clearly Russian-speaking one. As for the "Slavs," read the research of scientists, the word is a new 16th century, the term "Slovenia" was used earlier, even such countries with this word are available today. And as for the "History", it should be understood that this same "History" was written in the period dark medieval religious obscurantism, then what is shown today by "Ishilovites" destroying all traces of the ancient past. Remember, just for the phrase that "the earth is round"- people were burned alive, by the way they were burned in large numbers, up to 80% of city dwellers in a place that some people illiterate call Germany, although this part of Russia, where people still live even genetically pure Russ. So seriously pay attention to what the historians clearly wrote there it’s not worth it, science is advancing at an enormous pace, the directions of genetics, archeology, linguistics and others speak of a completely different past, that for some reason is still not included in general education textbooks, this should be borne in mind, especially in such a sensitive topic as the past and not story, history, and all sorts of different stories written on their knees in torture chambers, I really hope that you understand something and will not refer to the inventions of people who are not very distant and clearly not free in your writings that have not been verified by various scientific disciplines.
              1. Settlement Oparyshev
                Settlement Oparyshev 4 November 2017 20: 20 New
                +1
                Everything in the article is written correctly, except that Moscow, at that time, was a seedy farm, located far from the main river routes, due to the fact that the Moscow River, at that time was too shallow and was not used for logistics .
                1. 73bor
                  73bor 5 November 2017 07: 57 New
                  +1
                  There are things to which there is no answer — why, after the capture of the Kremlin, the boyars-traitors were not punished, in the sense, in any way ?! By the way, Skopin-Shuisky was poisoned by the Romanov’s relatives and there was no sense in killing Vasily Shuisky to kill him, it was at the suggestion of the boyars that Shuisky dismissed the army after defeating Bolotnikov instead of catching the remnants of the rebels.
              2. anderson
                anderson 4 November 2017 22: 52 New
                +1
                What language was spoken in Scandinavia before Charles 12? Where are you collecting such nonsense? About genetically pure Russes, this is a pearl of worthy fools .. Can you remember who, according to the annals, called Rurik? Of the four tribes that called on Rurik, the Slovenian is only one Slovenian. In the year 6370 (862 according to the modern calendar). ... And they went overseas to the Varangians, to Russia. Those Varangians were called Rus, as the others are called Swedes, and other Normans and Angles, and also other Gotlanders - like these. Chud, Slovenia, Krivichy and the whole Russia said: “Our land is large and plentiful, but there is no outfit [7] in it. Come and reign over us "About what kind of blood purity in Russia can be discussed at all from the moment of its foundation ..
                1. venaya
                  venaya 4 November 2017 23: 35 New
                  +2
                  Quote: anderson
                  What blood purity in Russia can be discussed at all since its inception ..

                  This is when, in what centuries did the dialect of the Jurassic language penetrate into Scandinavia? The dominant genetics was the genus R1a1, and for several millennia. Why did they even need the current Turkic-speaking dialect? According to the documents: please read the official speech at the funeral of Karl XI. And where is modern Swedish? A huge request not to confuse the Russian state with pre-Rurik Russia; these are completely different organizations of society. And about the genetically pure Russ, so they still live on the lands of today's Pomerania. Do you even read anything? Such terry ignorance on such a reputable and serious site I meet for the first time ever. Before knocking on the keys, at least read something, or the feeling that you woke up after a long lethargic sleep. In general, your manner of communication is more like communicating with an illiterate coachman. Urgently correct, here is a decent site and not an eatery to which you see you are used to. It is not worth presenting your own total illiteracy in these matters for the divine truth in the last resort. This is not appropriate!
            2. Victor N
              Victor N 4 November 2017 18: 24 New
              +2
              Simpletons Slavs and sly Jews left their goods alive. God did not take Russian duties.
            3. evgeny68
              evgeny68 5 November 2017 08: 03 New
              +1
              If you write something, then give links to the source. Or should we take our word for it. You are actually someone to write such nonsense. Russians in the 14th century ... Read Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe: By the way, your nickname is suitable for what you write.
            4. Luga
              Luga 5 November 2017 18: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: anderson
              Why repeat pseudo-Russian delirium

              This is the meaning of the existence of some individuals. Basically, such a shift in consciousness occurs due to banal ignorance - people simply have nothing to oppose to pseudo-historians, they do not adequately own the facts and succumb to simple theories presented by amateurs and for amateurs. For example, the gap in history between the fall of the Roman Empire and the emergence of the empire of Charlemagne (500 years, by the way) could easily be removed from history for them - there was nothing. About the Byzantine empire with its emperors, a rich collection of regulations, chronicles, they did not hear anything and do not want to hear.
              But there are still characters like our venaya. For some reason, these (I do not exclude even a mental disorder) try to tell us, poorly, some sacred knowledge, according to which the Russian people - salt and bone of the earth, the father of everything progressive and positive on the planet, is the only a creative force that opposes world evil in the face ... well, here it is by choice, but, as a rule, either in the person of the Jews or the Anglo-Saxons. Typical Nazism differs from Hitler’s only in that the conversation is about Russians, not about Germans. It is these figures who are now trying to write the history of Ukraine with its cosmic ukrams and the Black Sea dug by them.
              Arguing with them is sometimes funny, but always useless. For example, venaya will bring down on you a mountain of genital facts, mix it all in one pile, juggle with terms, they say we all speak and write incorrectly, season it with several insults to your personal address and ... that’s it. Such characters denied history as a science, because scientific thinking is not characteristic of them in principle, and their knowledge is even more superficial than the knowledge of their gurus - pseudo-historians, pseudo-linguists and other pseudo-scientists, which I do not see the point of listing. Compared with them, even Zadornov (health to him) is a scientist, although he writes his fabrications solely so that the people laugh.
        2. Cat
          Cat 4 November 2017 12: 50 New
          10
          Quote: Rinat79
          Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, this is all fiction; I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing history for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!

          Hm! From someone, but from the Kazakhs, I did not expect this!
          Now, in order:
          "Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia?"
          Although the question is not addressed to me, at the very least I consider myself Russian, so I’ll try to answer this. I don’t know what was twenty centuries ago in Russia, just as my opponent doesn’t know what was in Kazakhstan! Everything just 2000 years ago was neither Russia nor Kazakhstan. If you believe the opposite, then you are welcome to "geographic" atlas in the studio! Significant differences between us begin a little over 1000 years ago. When the "naturally wisely bribed agents of the Kremlin" in the person of the spiritual and secular rulers of the "Byzantine Empire" begin to mention certain Russians, residents of the northern Black Sea coast and the Dnieper, who go on campaigns to Constantinople and the troops of the second rome are tearing in the tail and mane. Following them, Arab merchants and travelers - with whose supply the Black Sea became Russian “begin to appease the black gold” begin to recall the princes of Rus. But the most successful acquisition of the FSB is Konstantin Bogryanorodny - a real emperor who mentioned the people of the Rus, already in two of his works. So, the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia in Novgorod is a fiction, but a statement of the fact of the existence of the Russian state. Now let's look for Kazakhstan, maybe it was a little east, so it is not from the east that Russia is backed by the Khazars, its satellite Eastern Bulgaria, Pechenegs, Hungarians (Ugrians), the Meshchera, the Mordvinians ......, and the Kazakhs and netutis. Let's look at the history book of a Kazakh schoolboy! And what we see - tales of Batyr Manas, such as in the history textbook of a Russian schoolboy bylin about Ilya Muromets and Nightingale the Robber I did not meet. I do not want to humiliate the Kazakhs, but the real story of the neighbors begins with the collapse of the Great Horde, and the first mention of the Kazakhs only during the reign of Ivan III the Terrible! Count the difference yourself.
          Opus second! "There is no history, these are all inventions. I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!!"
          Let's look at the textbook of a Kazakh schoolboy! Goes to sunset the 16th century, the century of the failed ambitions of Ivan IV, also of Grozny - to the west and national self-awareness and the rise of the Kazakh people in the east. Both states stretch "their hands" to Siberia. Tsar Fyodor Ioanovich sends D. Chulkov to Siberia, and the khan of the Kazakhs his brother - Sultan Oraz Mohamed. Their meeting took place in the city of Tobolsk, only built by the Russians. The meeting was fatal, the Kazakh prince "in chains" is going to Moscow. Instead of a dungeon, just like any Genghisguide “Kazakh Sultan” begins to plow for the benefit of a new homeland “in a quarry or logging site,” and “figs to you” —the second governor of the Russian army, sit on the tsar’s right hand and rule over the rather big Kassimov khanate. We will not blame the former Kazakh sultan and the real Kasimov khan that he supported the first two False Dmitriyans in turmoil, but that a child of the steppes should be taken from him. But he could just tell us about the foreign invaders, with whose supply and slander he laid down his head. An interesting fact is that the murder of False Dmitry 2 was just revenge for the death of the Kazakh sultan, and the Orthodox Tatar Peter Urusov made it “curtain”. Here is such a hodgepodge!
          Opus the third! "Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing a story for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore there is no earlier version of that very story !!!!" I wonder how much we paid in order to rewrite the above-mentioned “textbook of the history of the Kazakh schoolboy” !!!
          Conclusions: I apologize to the brothers of the Kazakhs, but now I will be cruel.
          1. The whole history that Kazakhstan has is the work of 99% of Russian scientists, archaeologists, teachers and teachers. Even the famous Kazakhs until 1991 moved the science of Russia, heading the departments in Moscow and Leningrad. Well, except for the epic about Manas. So it’s stupid to divide it into ours and yours after three centuries of being together.
          2. Regarding the "rewrite", it would be good to prescribe. In your case, sometimes it comes up to come up with! This is much sadder.
          3. Russia and Kazakhstan are one of the largest states in the world, long-standing neighbors and I am not afraid of this word - geopolitical partners. The question is, what should we share?
          1. Rinat79
            Rinat79 4 November 2017 16: 21 New
            0
            You answer me the question of who these foreign invaders are?
            1. Cat
              Cat 4 November 2017 20: 16 New
              +5
              I answer!
              Although the first, let’s do it to you, with a capital letter and quite respect for each other. Prince Sayatoslav went to You with us, well then there was paganism and all that, but 1000 years passed.
              Now the answer!
              The foreign invaders back in 1612 are “cute and sympathetic people,” yes “so white and fluffy, well, just like the current liberals,” who, at the invitation of “the people, or a northern furry friend, scribe them in one place,” namely, the political the elites of the then government of "seven-boyars" came to sit on the throne of Russia, Prince Vladislav, well, a little zipunov to tear off. The trouble was that there were so many virtues behind the “zipuns” in the “Moscow State” since 1606 that the “color revolution” was resting: the Poles, Swedes, Zaporizhzhya Cossacks, Crimeans and Nogais, so that there were enough both strangers and our own. For example, the daddy of the first Romanov worked as a triarch in the camp of the Tushensky thief - False Dmitry 2. By the way, there were only three False Dmitrys. The only thing that the “champions of popular freedom” did not think up was that the people had already got their goodness. So you can look for the motives of Minin, Pozharsky, Susanin, Lyapunov and Trubetskoy for a long time, the main thing is the capital was liberated from November 4 to 5, 1612. And further, further there was still a century of victories and defeats in which we reaped the fruits of “unrest”. Only the Nishtad peace of Peter the Great put a "fat" point on the issue. And a century later, the "foreign invaders" became "dishonorable" but subjects of the Russian Empire.
            2. venaya
              venaya 4 November 2017 20: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: Rinat79
              .. who are these foreign invaders?

              In this case, “foreign invaders” should be understood as those military and other structures that invaded the lands of Rus-Muscovy or Russia, sometimes previously called Rus-Slovenia, that is, Russian-speaking. Actually the whole so-called "Europe" is nothing more than the occupied part of ancient Russia, its western part. (Europe - Aramaic = West). Over the course of 2400 years, this ancient Russia (do not confuse Russia and Russia with the state) was subjected to endless and not only military attacks, most of it was played by the cultural and ideological occupation, the least noticeable, but the most effective in its action. We have been experiencing a similar occupation since 1991. Perhaps you also noticed this. Who carried out all this - conditionally we can call Rome occupied by the Latins Rome. it’s really possible to look for their true puppeteers under these forces, but it’s difficult, let’s leave this question “for later”.
          2. Rinat79
            Rinat79 4 November 2017 16: 25 New
            0
            What troubled times? What are you talking to me about Kazakhstan? Today I read your holiday and realized that I didn’t understand anything, or it would be an excuse, but we’ll find how to celebrate !!!
            1. Krabik
              Krabik 4 November 2017 18: 45 New
              +1
              He probably wanted to say that the Russian state was gathered together by the inhabitants of Eurasia.

              If we take modern Kazakhstan, then it by itself does not have economic, political and military strength.

              And if all the boyars will pull to their side, then all Poles will pull us and there will be a mess;)

              In your case, the boyar who is pulling on himself is Nazarbayev.
              Although I would not blame him for everything, still the country didn’t ruin him or not only him.
            2. Cat
              Cat 4 November 2017 20: 26 New
              +4
              I answer!
              The occasion was called "Independence Day of Russia" - this is with eleven centuries of history!
              November 4 is a compromise between pre-revolutionary and post-revolutionary Russia.
              Yes, maleho koryavenky, yes a little young, but ours is a holiday.
              By the way, an electrician did not come to me today, hang a lamp on a pole. The holiday, however, apparently drinks vodka!
          3. Seal
            Seal 8 November 2017 18: 49 New
            +1
            Instead of a dungeon, like any genghis guide

            And if in Kazakhstan (among the Turks) the main thing was not the East (Genghis), but the West (Batys), then it would be full of all sorts of “batyzids,” not “genghisids.” hi
            1. Karen
              Karen 8 November 2017 19: 09 New
              0
              Butusovs :)
        3. Severomor
          Severomor 5 November 2017 01: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Rinat79
          No history, this is all fiction; I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!!

          Thank you for the truth !!! Finally, from friends with blue flags we learn the truth! And how you don’t meet a Kazakh is a descendant of Genghis Khan, everything is right -
          Quote: Rinat79
          No history, these are all inventions. I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders.

          Rinat79 - Beauty pull to level 79!
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 4 November 2017 09: 57 New
        +6
        There would be great Poland to Moscow, Sweden to Vologda and Turkey to Orel.
        Wow, we would have been part of Tartaria? What was there in history? Today, through Krymnash, they lie to us about Ukraine-a foreign land. But Ukraine is a part of Russia.
        You congratulate the Russians. Do you remember why the troubles began?



        But Boriska divided the country for the sake of power and reigned in Moscow, only the foreigners were not expelled from Moscow in 1991, and the center was erected by the invader. And half of the Russians are no longer Russians. So, with your permission, I will be called Russian. And the Russians are those who support the invaders.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 5 November 2017 08: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: Gardamir
          . So, with your permission, I will be called Russian. And the Russians are those who support the invaders.

          Poor Pushkin, the "accomplice" of the invaders: “Oh, a great century of military disputes, a witness to the glory of the RUSSIANS” Illiteracy speaks to you.
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 5 November 2017 08: 27 New
            0
            illiteracy
            And here is Pushkin A.S. [Are earthly gods leading peaceful days here?
            Isn’t the church of Minerva a Russian church? / B] or here [b] Here, every step in the soul gives birth
            Recollections of previous years;
            Looking around him, Ross sighs with a sigh:
            и In Paris, Russia! - where is the torch of vengeance?
            Fall, Gaul, head.
            But what do I see? Ross with a smile of reconciliation
            Coming with olive gold.

            Do not touch creative people, otherwise you will begin to quote “Prince Luta”.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 5 November 2017 09: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Gardamir
              No need to touch creative people,

              belay
              And who should be cited as an example, if not the great RUSSIAN poet?
              He is much more authoritative for me than you, excuse me.
              1. Gardamir
                Gardamir 5 November 2017 14: 50 New
                0
                And who should be cited as an example, if not the great RUSSIAN poet?
                You do not understand or pretend? paraphrasing F.I. Tyutchev, the poet’s mind cannot be understood. I also quoted A.S. Pushkin, where he uses the words Russian, Ross.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 6 November 2017 10: 10 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Gardamir
                  paraphrasing F.I. Tyutchev, the poet’s mind cannot be understood

                  From rephrasing it, you are more convincing than not.
                  Quote: Gardamir
                  I also quoted A.S. Pushkin, where he uses the words Russian, Ross.

                  So what?! belay
                  1. Gardamir
                    Gardamir 6 November 2017 10: 12 New
                    0
                    So what?!
                    Yes, no cho! You are always right, the rest have come in for a smoke.
      3. 97110
        97110 4 November 2017 13: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        The most important date in the history of the country

        Especially compared to 25.10.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX. Wise people replaced. And the pens - here they are! And no fraud.
      4. Weyland
        Weyland 4 November 2017 17: 10 New
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        There would be a great Poland to Moscow, Sweden to Vologda and Turkey to Orel ...

        Sweden would not exist - not only before Vologda, but in general. Sigismund wanted to conquer Russia solely for the purpose of obtaining a foothold and a source of "cannon fodder" for the conquest of Sweden! At first he was the king of Sweden, and at the same time an ardent Catholic, while the bulk of the Swedes were Lutherans. And when he tried, with the help of the Holy Inquisition, to explain to stupid subjects all the perniciousness of their errors, the Swedes kicked him out and chose his uncle as king (with which Sigismund, essno, did not accept)
      5. anderson
        anderson 4 November 2017 18: 29 New
        +3
        Russian boyars could not agree among themselves which clan to command in Russia for 15 years. Therefore, they dragged to the throne all trash in the form of False Dmitry. These are not Poles, but Russian boyars and clergy swore allegiance to the false Dmitry and Vladislav. The Poles, of course, with great pleasure to tear off tidbits from Russia, but Sigismund was not about to capture it all. He had no strength for this. All that he could send in support of his party was a couple of rather small expeditionary corps that were broken by the militia. After the liberation of Moscow, everyone somehow forgets that Pozharsky wanted to put the Swedish prince on the throne (but he, having reached the Russian border, turned his “flippers” home.). As a result, the boyars chose Mikhail Romanov to the throne as the weakest compromise figure without military support. By the way, the pope of the new tsar, the hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, swore allegiance and supported one of the False Dmitriyes as well as the election of Vladislav. So we celebrate the day of the liberation of ourselves from ourselves. And we could celebrate as the French the 100th anniversary of the revolution that brought Russia to first place in the world. .In general, as in kindergarten, they exchanged chocolate for a candy wrapper with poop.
      6. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 4 November 2017 20: 22 New
        0
        Do not talk with nonsense that has not been confirmed.
      7. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 4 November 2017 23: 14 New
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        the capital of the state liberated 405 years ago.

        FROM WHOM?!!!!
    2. venaya
      venaya 4 November 2017 07: 12 New
      +6
      Quote: Dead Day
      .. a stupider holiday was not in the country.

      Please take a closer look at the text of the article:
      United in the Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania, supported by the Roman thronewere in a hurry to take advantage of Russia's weakness.

      Here, in this place it is clearly visible that on that day Russia once again managed to get rid of the external oppression looming over it, namely from the occupation of the country in the form of a foreign Roman occupation regime. so far no one wants to understand the simple truth that submission to Rome at that time could lead to complete destruction not only the state and statehood of Russia, but also the final the eradication of the Russian people themselves. Everyone is trying not to write about this, until now, until today it is still dangerous. Here are such things.
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 4 November 2017 07: 27 New
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        Unity Day throughout the country

        oh come on! staples? Do you see how the FSE "united" ???
        Quote: venaya
        Here, in this place is clearly visible

        in such pink glasses, anything can be considered! why only THIS rejoice? There were many glorious victories of our state in History. Do you really have such a "patriotism of the brain" that you do not see another, but only what is being imposed on you from the screens? fool
        1. venaya
          venaya 4 November 2017 07: 37 New
          +5
          Quote: Dead Day
          .. there were many glorious victories of our state in History ..

          Yes it was, I will not hide. But such that the capital fell in front of the enemy only twice, the second time in 1812. Then it was not so scary as it was a "cunning plan" Kutuzov, seeking to smoke the adversary with starvation. Another thing is the 1612th year, when almost the entire "elite" of the state fell under the invaders, I recall that the Zakharyin-Koshkin family itself, now called the Romanovs, is itself. Other seizures of the capital of Moscow are not interesting to consider, they did not carry such a menacing character, maybe with the exception of the famous "Battle of the Young", but there is a different story.
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 4 November 2017 07: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: venaya
            . Another thing is the 1612th year, when almost the entire "elite" of the state fell under the invaders,

            and 2017 does not remind?... and ... okay ... continue to "celebrate" ...
            1. venaya
              venaya 4 November 2017 07: 59 New
              +5
              Quote: Dead Day
              and 2017 does not remind?

              Indeed, history repeats itself. As they say that: "History teaches that teaches nothing". That’s why I try to more fully describe everything, absolutely all historical events, without losing sight of it, so that history really teaches something useful, and so that it doesn’t" step on the rake "a second time, otherwise this activity is painfully popular everywhere not the first century. Unfortunately, this requires efforts, and even not small ones. And given that the teaching of such an important subject for the country's security was in the hands of outright enemies of the Russian state, this task seems almost impossible. The need for survival requires additional efforts in this areas of knowledge, some stupid textbooks on "History" in this case is clearly not enough, this should be taken into account.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 November 2017 08: 38 New
              +5
              "good" expert Katasonov: he crashed into the collapse of Russia back in 2002 (The flight of capital from Russia / V. Yu. Katasonov. - M.: Ankil, 2002.)
              And since then, every year lol
    3. Hantengri
      Hantengri 4 November 2017 08: 38 New
      +6
      Quote: Dead Day
      405 years ago, November 4 - 5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky liberated Moscow from foreign invaders
      and therefore, today is National Unity Day with Moscow? there was no stupider holiday in the country. (however, thanks for the weekend)

      You are absolutely right. We look at the dates:
      July 24 - it turns out August 3 in a new style, it turned out to be the advanced forces of the Second Militia in Moscow. August 20 - August 30 in a new style - the main forces of Prince Pozharsky near Moscow. August 22-24 - this is September 1-3, according to the new style, the battle and victory over the Hadkevich corps. October 22 - November 1, according to a new style, the capture of Kitai Gorod. October 26 - November 5, according to the new style, a surrender agreement with the Polish-Lithuanian garrison. October 27 - November 6, according to the new style, the garrison leaves. November 1 - November 11 in a new style, the Zemsky army enters the Kremlin.
      That is, November 4 is the day when it happened .... NONE OF THAT !!!

      PS / Recalculation of dates is carried out according to the following formula: if we are talking about the 20th century, then we add 13 days to the date according to the old style, if about the 19th - 12, about the 18th - 11, and in the 17th - 10.
      1. bratchanin3
        bratchanin3 4 November 2017 13: 35 New
        +2
        Bullshit!
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 4 November 2017 13: 47 New
          0
          Quote: bratchanin3
          Bullshit!

          Prove it!
          1. bratchanin3
            bratchanin3 4 November 2017 14: 07 New
            +1
            As for the recounts of dates, then everything is true, but the essence of the matter is different. The Russian nobility, as always, was squirting, she had to keep her estates and power. Pozharsky united nations along the rivers Moscow, Volga, Kama, this is the unity of the peoples of the Russian Kingdom. As for November 4, the date chosen by the Patriarch of Russia is not tied to a specific date, but marks unity. Indeed, the prince kept the Poles in the Kremlin (under siege) from the summer and left in November. Why November, but because November 7 divides the people for ideological reasons. So, dates have nothing to do with it, although it is correctly shown by you, but they have nothing to do with this holiday.
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 4 November 2017 14: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: bratchanin3
              So, dates have nothing to do with it, although it is correctly shown by you, but they have nothing to do with this holiday.
              Yah? And what's that?
              Bye-law to the draft Law: "On November 4, 1612, soldiers of the militia led by Kuzma Minin and Dmitry Pozharsky stormed Kitay Gorod, freeing Moscow from Polish invaders and showing a model of heroism and solidarity of the whole people, regardless of origin, religion and social status."
              Quote: bratchanin3
              Why November, but because November 7 divides the people for ideological reasons.

              And the 1st, 5th, 6th, 11th of November is, well, as everyone understands, not November at all! wassat laughing
              Quote: bratchanin3
              As for November 4, the date chosen by the Patriarch of Russia is not tied to a specific date

              Well, not at all attached! lol November 4 - Day of the Kazan Icon of the Mother of God. No, not in the know? laughing And the date, oddly enough, was chosen by the Patriarch ... Probably just a coincidence ... laughing
              1. bratchanin3
                bratchanin3 4 November 2017 17: 29 New
                +2
                I am not against the day of the Kazan Mother of God. The Orthodox faith has always united and inspired the feats of arms. Let me agree that the date is not just, but with meaning. I convinced!
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 4 November 2017 18: 55 New
                  0
                  Quote: bratchanin3
                  I am not against the day of the Kazan Mother of God.

                  Well, who is against ?! (Apart from Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Buddhists, shamanists, atheists, etc., who do not deserve the holy, Orthodox attention of Untermensch!) wassat
                  Quote: bratchanin3
                  The Orthodox faith has always united and inspired the feats of arms.

                  Well naturally! And the rest of the religions, clearly, convinced their followers, at the sight of a heap, to urgently take a knee-elbow pose, turn to support the enemy, take off his pants and try to have fun! wassat
                  Quote: bratchanin3
                  Let me agree that the date is not just, but with meaning. I convinced!

                  Yeah. I convinced you. You, my friend, either remove the cross (flag), or put on your pants!
                  1. bratchanin3
                    bratchanin3 5 November 2017 10: 33 New
                    +1
                    Well, Cho mumbled again? Cho’s tongue is already braided, he has spun from three boxes, unreasonable!
            2. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 4 November 2017 20: 25 New
              0
              The Russian nobility appeared much later, and in those days, there were other nobles, the Moscow one, and various Tartarian nobles.
    4. bratchanin3
      bratchanin3 4 November 2017 13: 28 New
      +2
      Cho then beguiled, dear. National unity is the unity of peoples! What does Moscow have to do with it? Money and valuables were collected by the people (Russians, Mordovians, Tatars, ...), many peoples lived along the Volga.
    5. Primoos
      Primoos 4 November 2017 15: 20 New
      +3
      Quote: Dead Day
      405 years ago, November 4 - 5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky freed Moscow from foreign invaders
      and therefore, today is National Unity Day with Moscow? there was no stupider holiday in the country. (however, thanks for the weekend)

      And what is bad about Moscow? Very beautiful city. Where does this hatred come from? Adik Aloizych also hated Moscow. And where is Adik now? Like someone or not, Moscow is the capital of Russia. This is a hero city. This is a hard worker city. Yes, the official one too, but are there any successful states without officials?
      1. bratchanin3
        bratchanin3 4 November 2017 17: 36 New
        +3
        Yes, Moscow is not bad at all, nor any hatred, but rather, on the contrary, they have only united the PEOPLE to expel the Polish interventionists who are in Moscow ..... I am trying to speak out in favor of the holiday.
      2. serega61
        serega61 4 November 2017 21: 47 New
        0
        Worker city ?! Are there oil and gas fields located there? Maybe there are gold-diamond mines, mines? What is the hard worker city working on there?
        1. Primoos
          Primoos 5 November 2017 02: 21 New
          +3
          I will not undertake to list all areas of activity of 15 million people living in Moscow. But if you think about it yourself, you will be surprised at the huge number of activities of the capital's people. Or do you seriously believe that 15 million loafers live in Moscow?
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 5 November 2017 07: 59 New
            0
            why 15, less loafers
    6. Victor N
      Victor N 4 November 2017 18: 18 New
      +3
      Whose grandfathers in those years defended the country - those with a holiday! And if someone hid in the woods or then came in large numbers - just relax.
  2. Grim Reaper
    Grim Reaper 4 November 2017 05: 04 New
    16
    November 4th will not replace the 7th. Artificial holiday is not clear to the people. Not clear from the word "general".
    1. bratchanin3
      bratchanin3 4 November 2017 13: 31 New
      +3
      Not understandable only to those who do not know history. The Poles know this date and this war very well.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 5 November 2017 08: 00 New
        0
        Quote: bratchanin3
        Not understandable only to those who don’t know history

        just who knows and can’t understand the holiday, or if you know the history, you still believe that sailors were storming in winter
    2. Primoos
      Primoos 4 November 2017 15: 32 New
      +5
      Quote: Ecilop
      November 4th will not replace the 7th. Artificial holiday is not clear to the people. Not clear from the word "general".

      Just do not speak for all the people. You do not understand that the country got rid of the interventionists? THE PEOPLE WAS UNDERSTANDABLE both then and now.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 5 November 2017 21: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Primoos
        THE PEOPLE WAS UNDERSTANDABLE both then and now.

        that's about the people leave
        then it was violet to the people
  3. Amurets
    Amurets 4 November 2017 05: 27 New
    +5
    On November 7, the point of strategic inflection in our history, whether we like it or not, but after that the country irrevocably took a new path, successful or not, history will show. And on November 4th? Yes, I completely agree with this commentator.
    Quote: Dead Day
    405 years ago, November 4 - 5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky freed Moscow from foreign invaders
    and therefore, today is National Unity Day with Moscow? there was no stupider holiday in the country. (however, thanks for the weekend)
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 4 November 2017 06: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: Amurets
      On November 7, the point of strategic inflection in our history, whether we like it or not, but after that the country irrevocably took a new path, successful or not, history will show. And on November 4th?

      Without November 4, there would be nowhere to arrange an inflection point. hi
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 4 November 2017 07: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: Olgovich
        Without November 4, there would be nowhere to arrange an inflection point.

        so bent that it bursts everywhere ... "unity" for the sake of IT ?:
        The State Duma, the Federation Council and the Accounts Chamber are buying elite alcohol for hundreds of thousands of rubles. The corresponding order is placed on the public procurement website, said Alexander Skvortsov on Facebook. As the interlocutors in these authorities specified in a conversation with "URA.RU", the corresponding purchases are carried out by the Presidential Administration for representative purposes: receiving high-ranking delegations from abroad.

        Blue McAllan M Decanter, which costs 273 rubles per bottle, was purchased for government agencies, follows from screenshots of documents published by Skvortsov. In addition, cognac Tesseron Extreme is listed among purchases at a price of 273 rubles. For a bottle of white wine, Brut Vintage 450 is ready to pay 000 rubles.

        The most expensive item on the list is dry red wine Romane-Conti 2005 for 1 rubles.

        On the website of public procurement, it is noted that alcohol will be delivered to the street. Okhotny Ryad, d. 1 (State Duma); st. Bolshaya Dmitrovka, d. 26 (Sovfed) and st. Zubovskaya, d. 2 (Accounts Chamber).
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 4 November 2017 08: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Dead Day
          ... alcohol will be delivered to the street. Okhotny Ryad, village of 1 (State Duma); st. Bolshaya Dmitrovka, d. 26 (Sovfed) and st. Zubovskaya, d. 2 (Accounts Chamber).

          Suggest expropriating? laughing
  4. izya top
    izya top 4 November 2017 05: 43 New
    +1
    this is what civil strife and the struggle for power with the country do recourse logs, of course, raked, but then it
  5. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 4 November 2017 06: 55 New
    +3
    November 7th is like the “War and Peace” of Bondarchuk the Elder, and November 4th is like a filmmaker shot by his son on the knee. I crushed the holiday ... well, what it is, with the holiday!
  6. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 4 November 2017 06: 57 New
    +5
    Undoubtedly, the fact that then the Poles were caught up from Moscow is good. Well, and what better is this event of the Battle of Kulikovo, Napoleon’s flight from Moscow, but there are few events in the 1000-year history of Russia. It's just that this is a clumsy attempt by the liberal democrats who are at the service of the Americans to slander the popular memory of the Great October Revolution and the great USSR created thanks to it. An additional day off I’ll go to the garage and change the tires on the car.
  7. parusnik
    parusnik 4 November 2017 07: 21 New
    +6
    405 years ago, on November 4-5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky liberated Moscow from foreign invaders.
    ... and Russian traitors ...
  8. Korsar4
    Korsar4 4 November 2017 07: 31 New
    +8
    Today is the feast of the Kazan Icon of the Virgin. With what I congratulate.
    Favorite image, and significant for Russia.

    In the text of the article - the retelling is dotted. But Troubles are not easy to retell.
    And so - there will always be time for glorious events. For example, the sustained siege of the Trinity-Sergius Monastery.
  9. Rinat79
    Rinat79 4 November 2017 08: 10 New
    0
    [quote = Olgovich] [quote = Dedkastary] and therefore, today is the Day of National Unity with Moscow? [/ quote]
    fool
    Unity Day throughout the country, including Moscow, the capital of the state, liberated 405 years ago.

    The most important date in the history of the country: if it were not possible to destroy the Poles, there would be no Russia.
    There would be a great Poland to Moscow, Sweden to Vologda and Turkey to Orel ...

    Statements that it was too long and therefore today is not so important are complete nonsense. The event is epoch-making and significant, which should and should be celebrated.


    Israelis celebrate the battle that happened more than 2 thousand years ago! And they are right, as long as they remember their story, they exist. This is true for everyone.

    Therefore, all Russians-WITH HOLIDAY!
    Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, this is all fiction; I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing history for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!
    1. venaya
      venaya 4 November 2017 09: 00 New
      +4
      Quote: Rinat79
      Israelis celebrate battles that took place more than 2 thousand years ago! And they are right - as long as they remember their story - they exist. ..

      Do you believe that Israel existed 2000 years ago? Yes, they remember their own, their own history, written by themselves, by the way, very recently. You don’t tell me when you actually started to write all these stories of your own. Do not know? You can tell, unfortunately no one will believe in this.
  10. Boris55
    Boris55 4 November 2017 08: 20 New
    +6
    Thought about a "day of reconciliation." Red and white are two concepts of the life of the device of Russia. To try them on, we need a third concept - which suits one and the other. In 90's they abandoned the red concept and returned to white. Contradictions remained.
    Ordinary people fought for the whites and the reds - where anyone who first "caught" that color he became. Here they are, ordinary soldiers, have long been forgiven each other, fraternized and married, but Abramovich will never sit on the same field with the people as the people with them. The call of slaveholders to slaves to love them is nonsense. Not when the oppressed does not love the oppressor.
    The confrontation between white and red is determined by the culture existing in society, and our culture is biblical. In Russia, there is a concept that is superior in strength to and opposing the biblical one - it is BER. Until we change the culture in society, nothing will change.
    So there’s nothing to celebrate yet.
    1. Cat Marquis
      Cat Marquis 4 November 2017 10: 28 New
      +5
      In Soviet times, the apologists of capitalism liked to "flaunt" with a phrase from the TV screen:: "The Communists are for the absence of the rich, and we are for the absence of the poor! Do you feel the difference?" However, they openly lied to ordinary Soviet people who were not yet sophisticated and did not know (forgotten) all the "charms" of capitalist exploitation. Unfortunately, Soviet people, already tired of the “formal ideology”, forgot about Lenin’s words that both rich and poor do not have a “fatherland”, as rich people don’t care what country they live in, and poor people don’t care with whom to be poor .... "
  11. fa2998
    fa2998 4 November 2017 08: 21 New
    +6
    Quote: Ecilop
    November 4th will not replace the 7th. Artificial holiday is not clear to the people. Not clear from the word "general".

    History is written by those who are in power, who are under it! Say you write something else, you can lose the department, ask for work, grants will be taken away. In my memory (not so long), the history vector has changed more than once. Let's see in 10-15 years what we will celebrate!
    But at the moment, "liberated" Moscow is once again captured by anyone, and has separated from Russia. And with whom it is "reconciled" is also unknown to anyone. AU, MOSCOW !!! request hi
  12. Gardamir
    Gardamir 4 November 2017 09: 31 New
    +3
    Looking at how they rewrite the history of a hundred years ago, how they distort the history of the Great Patriotic War, how they lie about what happened 30 years ago. Tell me, can you believe about the myths of those le ?. The Romanovs wrote one story, the Communists tweaked, the current federalists are adding their own.
  13. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 4 November 2017 09: 38 New
    +6
    Well, what you ran into these Poles? The Russians were on both sides. Conventional clan showdowns. One side called for help from the Poles, the other Swedes. It has become easier for you to live when, until recently, public property, became private. And her master is now "Russian." And you are about unity.
  14. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 4 November 2017 09: 47 New
    +4
    How symbolic. "They liberated Moscow ..." Type and holiday "Moscow" -that he to all of Russia. sad
  15. sibiryouk
    sibiryouk 4 November 2017 11: 13 New
    +3
    I read the first two paragraphs, this is some kind of nightmare and nonsense !!! I won’t read further!
  16. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 4 November 2017 11: 21 New
    +4
    Victory Day over the Poles. That was to be called.

    What the "unity"? belay
    And May 1 is the Day of international solidarity of workers against the under-cut bourgeois, and not at all some "day of spring and labor" sad
  17. Mamka pula
    Mamka pula 4 November 2017 11: 23 New
    18
    As Anton Kersnovsky wrote, in 1612, good people defeated thieves, and in 1917, thieves defeated good people.
    Happy Russians love
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 4 November 2017 23: 13 New
      0
      with which?!
      from a finger sucked? !!!
      the holiday was November 7th and it was visible, and this miserable parody is tied to no date and does not symbolize anything
  18. Vard
    Vard 4 November 2017 13: 43 New
    +1
    Keyword ... militia ... or in other words, we always have all the problems solved by the enthusiasm of the masses ...
  19. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 4 November 2017 17: 51 New
    0
    Minin Pozharsky in the morning: do you remember what you did yesterday? He defeated the Kremlin, raped the Poles, and then on the ruins of the fortress .. What, did I also destroy the fortress? No, it's up to you, in the 12th century ... And thanks for the day off .. drinks
  20. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: Dead Day
    405 years ago, November 4 - 5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky freed Moscow from foreign invaders
    and therefore, today is National Unity Day with Moscow? there was no stupider holiday in the country. (however, thanks for the weekend)

    What is stupid? The fact that citizen Minin, a merchant with the post of Zemsky elder and Prince Pozharsky, united, as they say now, the elite and the Russian people who joined the militia? If you do not understand this, then you weren’t stupider at VO yet !!!
  21. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: Dzafdet
    Minin Pozharsky in the morning: do you remember what you did yesterday? He defeated the Kremlin, raped the Poles, and then on the ruins of the fortress .. What, did I also destroy the fortress? No, it's up to you, in the 12th century ... And thanks for the day off .. drinks

    Come on, you dunce !!! Smoked something? He dumped everything into a heap, he himself understood ... although why do you need to understand ... You have a day off ...
  22. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 05 New
    +1
    Quote: Vard
    Keyword ... militia ... or in other words, we always have all the problems solved by the enthusiasm of the masses ...

    Well then, with the regular troops it was tight, remember who always threatened us from the south-west and from the north, until they hung!
  23. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Mamka pula
    As Anton Kersnovsky wrote, in 1612, good people defeated thieves, and in 1917, thieves defeated good people.
    Happy Russians love

    It's right...
  24. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 13 New
    +2
    Quote: Rinat79
    Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, this is all fiction; I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing history for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!

    You are sick with Russophobia! Nothing will help you already, and you will end someday without reading a historical book ... And most importantly, you don’t feel sorry for anyone, boil it in your saucepan with ..., one figs from you will not be any good ...
  25. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 16 New
    +2
    Quote: venaya
    Quote: Rinat79
    Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, it's all fiction. I personally don’t believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! All my life Russia came up with a story and rewrote it as it suits her !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!

    Russia never wrote and naturally could not rewrite its history, since "history" and other stories were not written in Russia and non-Russians. Russia had its knowledge in the form of the Vedas. The Vedas in translation from Draene-Russian and even the current dialect of the Belarusian language are called Vedas, that is, Knowledge = Vedas. There are many Vedas, the Indian Vedas are preserved in the ancient "holy language" = Sanskrit. There are Vedas Avesta, also the ancient Russian Vedas, and released the Russian Vedas in the XNUMXth century, under Alexander II. A more ancient source is called the “Book of Veles”, there was such a God in Russia, from him comes the name of the province in the British Isles - “Wells”, they may have heard. So, no “stories” were ever written in Russia, all these are bullies, in Russia they wrote only the truth, only what happened. Fictional foreigners write and always rewrite stories of fiction, keep this in mind and do not take the wrong people for honest people, this is not good, it's not fair.

    Are you trying to explain this to anyone? A person who does not understand and does not see the point ... Well, to hell with it, take care of your nerves ....
  26. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: anderson
    Why repeat the pseudo-Russian delirium. Archeology does not know any evidence of the presence of any Russian Vedas, since the very concept of Russian belongs, God forbid, to the 14th century .. In the 7-8 centuries, the Slavs began to move north along the Danube, Vistula, Dnieper and Lovat. The Normans paved the way from Scandinavia to Byzantium and the Caspian for silver, who had permanent settlements along this route in places of particular importance for wintering and repair of ships — Staraya Ladoga 756 (Lyubsha) in front of the Volkhov rapids, Gnezdovo around 863 (Smolensk) in the area of ​​the lugs from Lovat through the Dvina to the Dnieper and back. , Izborsk on the Velikaya River, and Belozero on the way to the Caspian. For the period of the 8-9th century, not a single Slavic city (large settlement) is known without a Varangian presence. Moreover, the Varangians based on excavation materials in all these places were the dominant nobility. In their graves are found the richest jewelry and weapons.
    And for your information, history cannot be written, it consists of different sources - archeology, written sources of own and written sources of surrounding countries.

    Did you understand what you’re writing? Even the satirist Zadornov is doing this to you ...
  27. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: venaya
    Quote: anderson
    ..for your information, history cannot be written, it consists of various sources- archeology, written sources of own and written sources of surrounding countries.

    What was it? Are you also trying to classify yourself as "victims of the exam"? Look at least at your own nickname: “Anderson” - you didn’t happen to notice that it consists of two roots of “Andes” - people in Greek, and “dream” - clearly Russian, but in a Scandinavian dialect, because in Scandinavia before Charles XII they still spoke and composed official papers in Russian. According to the research of the President of the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Ingushetia A.S. Shishkov in his book "Korneslov", written as early as 200 years ago. It states that all modern languages ​​are descended from ancient Russian. Maybe you didn’t read it? Modern scholars call figures at 30-60 thousand years of age of this very ancient language, proto-language. You are talking about archeology, and it confirms these data of linguistics, which is worth only the inscription of the word "corcodil" they found, also like the "nickname" of a two-root and clearly Russian-speaking one. As for the "Slavs," read the research of scientists, the word is a new 16th century, the term "Slovenia" was used earlier, even such countries with this word are available today. And as for the "History", it should be understood that this same "History" was written in the period dark medieval religious obscurantism, then what is shown today by "Ishilovites" destroying all traces of the ancient past. Remember, just for the phrase that "the earth is round"- people were burned alive, by the way they were burned in large numbers, up to 80% of city dwellers in a place that some people illiterate call Germany, although this part of Russia, where people still live even genetically pure Russ. So seriously pay attention to what the historians clearly wrote there it’s not worth it, science is advancing at an enormous pace, the directions of genetics, archeology, linguistics and others speak of a completely different past, that for some reason is still not included in general education textbooks, this should be borne in mind, especially in such a sensitive topic as the past and not story, history, and all sorts of different stories written on their knees in torture chambers, I really hope that you understand something and will not refer to the inventions of people who are not very distant and clearly not free in your writings that have not been verified by various scientific disciplines.

    Do not mark the beads in front of the pigs, they will not understand you!
    1. evgeny68
      evgeny68 5 November 2017 08: 11 New
      0
      About the Old Russian language you are very bent. You can say enchanting.
  28. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Victor N
    Simpletons Slavs and sly Jews left their goods alive. God did not take Russian duties.

    What is your trick? Are you a simple Slav or a clever Jew, or so ... went out for a walk?
  29. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 24 New
    0
    Quote: Kotischa
    Quote: Rinat79
    Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia? No history, this is all fiction; I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!! Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing history for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore, there is no earlier version of the same story !!!!

    Hm! From someone, but from the Kazakhs, I did not expect this!
    Now, in order:
    "Do you know what happened 2000 years ago in Russia?"
    Although the question is not addressed to me, at the very least I consider myself Russian, so I’ll try to answer this. I don’t know what was twenty centuries ago in Russia, just as my opponent doesn’t know what was in Kazakhstan! Everything just 2000 years ago was neither Russia nor Kazakhstan. If you believe the opposite, then you are welcome to "geographic" atlas in the studio! Significant differences between us begin a little over 1000 years ago. When the "naturally wisely bribed agents of the Kremlin" in the person of the spiritual and secular rulers of the "Byzantine Empire" begin to mention certain Russians, residents of the northern Black Sea coast and the Dnieper, who go on campaigns to Constantinople and the troops of the second rome are tearing in the tail and mane. Following them, Arab merchants and travelers - with whose supply the Black Sea became Russian “begin to appease the black gold” begin to recall the princes of Rus. But the most successful acquisition of the FSB is Konstantin Bogryanorodny - a real emperor who mentioned the people of the Rus, already in two of his works. So, the monument to the 1000th anniversary of Russia in Novgorod is a fiction, but a statement of the fact of the existence of the Russian state. Now let's look for Kazakhstan, maybe it was a little east, so it is not from the east that Russia is backed by the Khazars, its satellite Eastern Bulgaria, Pechenegs, Hungarians (Ugrians), the Meshchera, the Mordvinians ......, and the Kazakhs and netutis. Let's look at the history book of a Kazakh schoolboy! And what we see - tales of Batyr Manas, such as in the history textbook of a Russian schoolboy bylin about Ilya Muromets and Nightingale the Robber I did not meet. I do not want to humiliate the Kazakhs, but the real story of the neighbors begins with the collapse of the Great Horde, and the first mention of the Kazakhs only during the reign of Ivan III the Terrible! Count the difference yourself.
    Opus second! "There is no history, these are all inventions. I personally do not believe any intrigues from foreign invaders !!!"
    Let's look at the textbook of a Kazakh schoolboy! Goes to sunset the 16th century, the century of the failed ambitions of Ivan IV, also of Grozny - to the west and national self-awareness and the rise of the Kazakh people in the east. Both states stretch "their hands" to Siberia. Tsar Fyodor Ioanovich sends D. Chulkov to Siberia, and the khan of the Kazakhs his brother - Sultan Oraz Mohamed. Their meeting took place in the city of Tobolsk, only built by the Russians. The meeting was fatal, the Kazakh prince "in chains" is going to Moscow. Instead of a dungeon, just like any Genghisguide “Kazakh Sultan” begins to plow for the benefit of a new homeland “in a quarry or logging site,” and “figs to you” —the second governor of the Russian army, sit on the tsar’s right hand and rule over the rather big Kassimov khanate. We will not blame the former Kazakh sultan and the real Kasimov khan that he supported the first two False Dmitriyans in turmoil, but that a child of the steppes should be taken from him. But he could just tell us about the foreign invaders, with whose supply and slander he laid down his head. An interesting fact is that the murder of False Dmitry 2 was just revenge for the death of the Kazakh sultan, and the Orthodox Tatar Peter Urusov made it “curtain”. Here is such a hodgepodge!
    Opus the third! "Throughout its everlasting life, Russia has been inventing a story for itself and rewriting it as it suits it !!!! Therefore there is no earlier version of that very story !!!!" I wonder how much we paid in order to rewrite the above-mentioned “textbook of the history of the Kazakh schoolboy” !!!
    Conclusions: I apologize to the brothers of the Kazakhs, but now I will be cruel.
    1. The whole history that Kazakhstan has is the work of 99% of Russian scientists, archaeologists, teachers and teachers. Even the famous Kazakhs until 1991 moved the science of Russia, heading the departments in Moscow and Leningrad. Well, except for the epic about Manas. So it’s stupid to divide it into ours and yours after three centuries of being together.
    2. Regarding the "rewrite", it would be good to prescribe. In your case, sometimes it comes up to come up with! This is much sadder.
    3. Russia and Kazakhstan are one of the largest states in the world, long-standing neighbors and I am not afraid of this word - geopolitical partners. The question is, what should we share?

    This is an atypical Kazakh ...
  30. Eurodav
    Eurodav 4 November 2017 19: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Ecilop
    November 4th will not replace the 7th. Artificial holiday is not clear to the people. Not clear from the word "general".

    Quote: Gardamir


    Although you don’t like it at times, but here you are strongly told !!!
  31. timgan777
    timgan777 4 November 2017 20: 26 New
    +2
    Yes, I am a Russian occupier, it was my people who tolerated the atrocities of Polish interventionists during the time of troubles, but how did their intervention end ?!
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 4 November 2017 23: 09 New
      0
      Quote: timgan777
      suffered the atrocities of the Polish interventionists

      enough nonsense to write what interventionists ?!
      they were first invited, and after the "exile" they invited the Russian tsar to the polls, and not just they allowed their "candidate" to stand
  32. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 4 November 2017 23: 08 New
    0
    liberated Moscow from foreign invaders

    extremely controversial statement, this is me about the term invaders
  33. Operator
    Operator 5 November 2017 02: 25 New
    +1
    In November 1612, an event of national unity took place - all the estates of Russia (boyars, nobles, clergy, merchants, petty bourgeois, Cossacks, slaves) on a voluntary basis, united without the participation of the central government to liberate the country from foreign occupiers.

    At the same time, the Poles and Swedes, who began participating in the Russian Troubles as mercenaries of the internal opposing forces, by November 1612 began to pursue only their national interests and were engaged in the annexation of Russian territory:
    - the Polish king forbade his son Wladyslaw to accept the royal crown in order to eliminate the sovereignty of Russia and its annexation to the Commonwealth;
    - The Swedish king was solving the problem of joining the north-west of Russia to the Kingdom of Sweden, which already included Finland and Livonia.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 5 November 2017 07: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      November 1612, an event of national unity took place - all classes of Russia (boyars, nobles, clergy, merchants, petty bourgeois, Cossacks, slaves) on a voluntary basis, without the participation of the central government, united to liberate the country from foreign occupiers.

      What are you? !!!
      DIRECTLY SUCH ALL?
      then the question arises who invited the Poles
      By the way, you are aware that the Cossacks actively supported the false Dmitry, so that there is no need for unity
      1. Operator
        Operator 5 November 2017 12: 59 New
        0
        You’re reading with understanding - it’s written in black and white "in November 1612 years. "
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 5 November 2017 21: 29 New
          0
          yeah, and in November everything was different, but so that the Polish condidate before the election admission, enough bullshit already to drive
          1. Operator
            Operator 5 November 2017 22: 21 New
            0
            At the Zemsky Sobor in 1613, Polish Vladislav, Swedish Karl, and English Jacob had support groups, but at the first vote, most of the participants in the council decided to admit candidates from Russian families to the elections for the kingdom.

            They chose Mikhail Romanov as a candidate who satisfied most of the participants in the cathedral, which once again confirmed the desire for unity of the Russian people.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 5 November 2017 23: 21 New
              0
              Quote: Operator
              Support groups from Polish Vladislav, Swedish Karl and English Jacob certainly were

              ALL
              on this issue with the "expulsion" of "invaders" is closed
              1. Operator
                Operator 6 November 2017 00: 36 New
                0
                Ek contradicts you from the definition of "occupiers" for the Polish and Swedish troops in November 1612. The fact that their fans participated in the Zemsky Sobor in an insignificant minority does not cancel the fact that the cathedral as a whole demonstrated the national unity of the Russian people.

                At the same time, the same Vladislav, who was considered a candidate for kings at the primaries stage, was on the counter with his father, the Polish king, who (unlike his son) did not want Russian sovereignty.

                The fundamental task that was solved in the course of the struggle against foreign intervention and the election of the head of state at the Zemsky Sobor was to ensure the unity of the Russian people, and not unanimity.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 6 November 2017 08: 10 New
                  0
                  Quote: Operator
                  Ek bothers you with the definition of "occupiers"

                  It disturbs me, as you put it from stupidity and the desire to project today's relationship 400 years ago
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 6 November 2017 12: 42 New
                    0
                    Are you from the "God's chosen" will be?
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 6 November 2017 14: 29 New
                      0
                      I understand that you are hinting at the Jews?
                      no, I just read it lovingly, but it seems that you don’t even bother to read the surname
                      1. Operator
                        Operator 6 November 2017 18: 34 New
                        0
                        It’s just that your author says “se-se-se-er-er” - a purely Jewish invention of the 1922 model.

                        If you are from Little Russians (... ko, bo), then the Day of National Unity with us Great Russians is all the more relevant for you.
  34. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 6 November 2017 19: 27 New
    0
    Operator,
    Quote: Operator
    It’s just that your author says “se-se-se-er-er” - a purely Jewish invention of the 1922 model.
    If you are from Little Russians (... ko, bo), then the Day of National Unity with us Great Russians is all the more relevant for you.

    fool I have no words
  35. Loki_2
    Loki_2 7 November 2017 18: 38 New
    0
    November 4 - 5, 1612, the militia of Minin and Pozharsky liberated Moscow from foreign invaders.

    I have a question for historians what exactly happened on November 4-5, 1612 (October 25-26, 1612 according to the old style)?
    1. Grim Reaper
      Grim Reaper 8 November 2017 12: 36 New
      +1
      And was it 4-5 or “fitted” to the right date?
  36. Seal
    Seal 8 November 2017 19: 04 New
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    They chose Mikhail Romanov as the candidate who satisfied most of the participants in the cathedral,

    And how did this event actually go? In the sense of the Cathedral? Who specifically participated in the Council? Not in the signing of the Approved Charter, which was signed later on "election at the Council as Tsar Mikhail Romanov", namely, who participated in the Council itself.
    By the way, why did Mikhail Romanov not take part?
    And the other boyars, who, like Mikhail Romanov, sat in the Kremlin together with the Poles and were “released”, so to speak, by the M&P militia, took part?
  37. Seal
    Seal 9 November 2017 14: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: anderson
    As a result, the boyars elected Mikhail Romanov to the throne

    What kind of boyars chose Michael?
    Almost all the boyars were either in Poland (Golitsyn, Romanov who is the pope), or they sat with the Poles in the Kremlin and after the "liberation" they dispersed them to their estates. Misha Romanov, by the way, too. Therefore .. well, obviously not the boyars chose Mishenka.
  38. Seal
    Seal 9 November 2017 16: 39 New
    +1
    Quote: Luga
    This is the meaning of the existence of some individuals.

    Basically, such a shift in consciousness occurs due to banal ignorance - people simply have nothing to oppose to their opponents, they do not have enough knowledge of the facts and succumb to simple, outlined earlier recognized pros-storytellers, as their private opinions, but with widespread popularity over time theories and therefore become in the view of amateurs "historical facts." For example, they are not at all bothered by the presence of a gap in history between the fall of the Roman Empire and the emergence of the empire of Charlemagne (500 years, by the way). For them, any gap can easily be inserted into history. In the place of which then any “story” will be easily inserted - and everything will be fine for them. They know everything about the Byzantine Empire with its emperors, a rich collection of normative acts, chronicles, although they personally have not seen a single genuine line of any imperial decree (well, except for the last Paleologists), not a single genuine line from "rich collections of regulatory acts, chronicles" earlier than the 13th century AD. But despite this, they do not want to hear anything - they say that was all there.
    But there are still characters who, for some reason (I do not exclude even a mental disorder), are trying to tell us, miserably, some sacred knowledge, according to which the Mongolian people in some historical period (when he also I didn’t suspect that they, the hulk are “Mongols”) were so excited that imagining myself to be salt and bone of the earth (and so on - I won’t repeat it), saddling my undersized broad-bred horses, went to conquer the whole world, bringing light into it and the inspiration of the father of everything progressive and positive on the planet, the only creative force opposing the evil of the world in the person of ... Genghis Khan. It is these figures who are now trying to write the history of Ukraine with its cosmic ukrams and the Black Sea dug by them.
    Arguing with them is sometimes funny, but always useless.