How from T-90 did "cheap stuff", or About filing facts

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At the end of last week, another controversial article was circulated in the Russian-language segment of the Internet, “exposing” the alleged problems of Russian tanks. A material with a loud and even scandalous headline “Experts called the Russian T-90S tank“ cheap ”described the current situation on the global arms market and made conclusions about the reasons for its particular features. For a person who does not understand much about this topic, the arguments presented may seem correct, which will entail a corresponding reaction. However, upon careful consideration, the facts mentioned in the article in most cases are not interpreted correctly, but in such a way as to put domestic equipment in the required light.

How from T-90 did "cheap stuff", or About filing facts


First, it is worth briefly retell the theses announced in the article under review, “Experts called the Russian T-90С tank" cheap. " At the very beginning of the material, the authors, referring to some unnamed experts, declare the main tank T-90C “cheap”, but immediately define this term. The reason for the use of such a word is called the lowest cost among the rest of the equipment of this class on the market. So, with an average cost of MBT about 4,5 million US dollars, one Russian T-90С will cost the customer no more than three million. For comparison, the prices of other tanks, to some extent similar to the Russian ones. The Polish PT-91 Twardy costs about 7 million dollars, and the Ukrainian Oplot-M costs about half a million less.

As the main reason for the relative cheapness of the Russian armored vehicles, the authors of the publication cited the use of technologies already developed by Uralvagonzavod in the production of T-72 family tanks, which became the basis for the T-90. Due to this, over the past 12 years, the plant operating in Nizhny Tagil was able to export more than a thousand tanks of this type. Thus, the T-90 has become the most successful tank in recent years in the international market. Sold tanks serve in the armies of India (the largest buyer), Algeria, Turkmenistan, Uganda and other developing countries or third world countries.

Finally, the authors of the publication drew attention to the combat capabilities of the armored vehicle. It is noted that the T-90 is the main threat to the armored forces of NATO, because of which the Alliance countries were forced to develop appropriate anti-tank weapons. As an example of readiness to repel an attack of Russian tanks, the material contains certain “third-generation missiles” that the Blind complex of optical-electronic suppression can no longer fight. It is also alleged that the capabilities of the Arena active defense system do not allow the tank to be protected from sub-caliber projectiles and attack cores of cumulative ammunition. The last claim to protect the T-90 concerns the lack of serious protection against attacks from the upper hemisphere, which, it is claimed, makes the Russian tank unsuitable for use in wartime conditions.


Tank T-90C. Photo militaryrussia.ru / worldwide-defence.blogspot.com


It is not difficult to suspect an article in a tendentious presentation of facts in order to form the necessary attitude to the T-90 tank in the reader. Even in the part of the material where the successes of Russian tanks on the international market are superficially examined, a specific attitude to these combat vehicles is felt. The mere fact of such a submission of information is the reason for the appropriate attitude to the article.

A quick search on the Internet allows you to find the source of the publication - the Military Informer website. The author of the article is not listed, but there are two links to sources of information. The information disclosed in the material was taken from news Portal "Lenta.ru" and reprints notes from the agency Newsru.com. These publications appeared in the fall of 2012 and 2010, respectively. Thus, it is possible to draw conclusions about the freshness and relevance of the data presented.

Last year's news from Lenti.ru told about the record of the T-90С tank and the Uralvagonzavod enterprise producing it. Thus, in the period from 2001 to 2010, the Nizhny Tagil plant built and transferred to a third country over a thousand units of this type of armored vehicles. According to the experts of Uralvagonzavod, this sales volume made the T-90 the most commercially successful MBT of the past decade. The facts cited in the news about the record of Russian tank building went into the article “Experts called the Russian T-90С tank cheap” almost unchanged - only specific wordings were corrected.

News from the portal Newsru.com already when reading the headline allows you to guess why the author of the website "Military informer" called his article that way, and not otherwise. The fact is that the material from 17 of September 2010 of the year, which described the situation in the global market of armored vehicles, was called "Russia ranks first in the world in the export of tanks at the expense of" backward "technology. An interesting feature of this article is the fact that, under a somewhat provocative heading, contains a balanced story about Russian contracts for the sale of tanks from 2006 to 2009 a year. During this period, our country sold 482 new tanks totaling just under 1,6 billion dollars. In addition, the forecast provided by the World Trade Analysis Center weapons (TSAMTO), according to which from 2010 to 2013 year, these figures could reach 859 tanks for 2,75 billion dollars.

The quantitative aspects of tank building and export, covered in the article "Military informer" almost without changes were taken from both sources. As for the conclusions about the inability of T-90 and its modifications to fully operate in the conditions of the modern war, they were also borrowed from the 2010 publication of the year without any serious corrections. The article “Russia ranks first in the world in the export of tanks at the expense of“ backward ”equipment” concludes with the theses about the unsuitability to real use of the “Shtora” and “Arena” complexes, as well as the lack of protection of the tank against attacks from above. Prior to these conclusions, it contains reflections on the pace of rearmament of the Russian tank forces.


T-90 with KAZ "Arena"


It is worth noting that in the case of statements about the combat capabilities of the T-90 tanks, the most difficult situation is emerging. These armored vehicles have not yet met in real combat with advanced foreign anti-tank systems, which does not allow to draw the right conclusions. The only conclusion in this context that may appear in the existing conditions of lack of information concerns the protection of the tank against attacks from above. At present, not a single tank in the world can effectively counter such threats. Therefore, it turns out that the Russian T-90 in this parameter are not inferior and do not exceed foreign equipment.

In the absence of detailed information, it remains to rely only on different estimates, which, for obvious reasons, can be very different. Manufacturers of tanks and anti-tank weapons, promoting their development, in every way embellish their capabilities. This feature of the defense industry of any country eventually becomes the cause of the emergence of numerous disputes on the topic “who or what is better?”. In this case, it remains to leave the negative assessments of Russian tanks on the conscience of the authors of the original publication on the Newsru.com website.

The last topic to consider is experts. According to the headline of the article with criticism, it was some experts who recognized the T-90 as “cheap.” Even with a cursory review of the two news, which became the basis for the “devastating” publication, you can see that they only refer to one specialist in the field of trade in armaments and military equipment. The only expert whose words are cited in two articles is the head of TSAMTO I. Korotchenko. Apparently, it was he who told Newsru.com journalists about the situation in the global tank market. However, he did not give any assessment of the quality of a particular technique. Thus, it turns out that experts who have called T-90 “cheap” do not have a specific name and do not seem to exist at all.

As a result, the article with the loud title “Experts called the Russian tank T-90С“ cheap ”” is a collection of fairly old and long-known facts, richly “flavored” with questionable and controversial details of unclear origin. In this regard, it remains once again to remind readers of the importance of verifying information provided by one or other publications or Internet resources. As for the conformity of the article to reality, then let these problems remain on the conscience of those authors who have some data, in order to please some wishes or reasons, turn into others.


Related links:
http://military-informant.com/index.php/army/3305-1.html
http://lenta.ru/news/2012/10/09/t90/
http://riw.ru/russia_polit57921.html
http://newsru.com/russia/17sep2010/rating_export.html
455 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. -1
    3 August 2013 18: 53
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: alexpro66
    As you know, the PAK-FA flies thanks to Indian electronic components.

    What is this?

    I personally did not participate in the purchase and cannot disclose the list))) These questions are for the Moscow Region
    They definitely turned out to be from the Chinese after the fall of one of the Protons (they found several blocks in which there were mikruhi made in China, and for this Popovkin caught a planner???) and for Armata they purchased a trial batch of stabilized video cameras - they crumbled during testing stand. The Indians have much better quality since they purchase patents for production, but there are also restrictions on the export of products
    1. +1
      3 August 2013 19: 01
      Quote: alexpro66
      I personally did not participate in the purchase and cannot disclose the list))) These questions are for the Moscow Region

      I wonder if what you wrote is stupid, but should I write to the Moscow Region for confirmation?
      PAKFA was created with Russian money and its filling is completely domestic. On its basis and with Indian money they will create an aircraft for India, but all this is still at the level of negotiations.
      I repeat: Indians have nothing to do with the creation of PAKFA (neither money nor electronics).
      The paralay clearly describes this, but there are also plenty of other sources to support this information.
  3. +2
    3 August 2013 19: 21
    Quote: Kars
    You can write something down when you confirm that what I said wasn’t. And the fact remains that the T-64Б was a more advanced and technically advanced machine than the T-72Б

    The issue is very controversial. T72b is much simpler than T64B, which greatly affects reliability.
    The 72B, having a more powerful engine, is more dynamic; its latest modifications, with built-in emergency protection, are clearly more reliably protected than the T64BV. Also, the PPO system, similar to the T80U, is more effective than that used on the T64B.
    In what the T64B is clearly superior - in the sight, it is more advanced, but the KUV is worse, used on the T72, with laser guidance it is simpler, more reliable, more effective...
    1. +1
      4 August 2013 09: 56
      Quote: svp67
      its latest modifications, with built-in remote sensing,

      I'm sorry, we're not interested in the latest models.
      We are interested in the T-64B 1976 and T-72B 1978 (the years may be wrong, but you understand) And now you will begin to remember Ragatka.
      1. 0
        5 August 2013 21: 53
        Quote: Kars
        I'm sorry, we're not interested in the latest models.
        And he talked about them
        Quote: Kars
        We are interested in the T-64B 1976 and T-72B 1978 (the years may be wrong, but you understand) And now you will begin to remember Ragatka.

        No, I won’t, but you’re confusing something
        After conducting comprehensive tests of prototypes, by decree of the CPSU Central Committee and the USSR Council of Ministers dated October 27, 1984, the “Object 184” tank was adopted by the Soviet Army under the designation T-72 B. The corresponding order from the Minister of Defense followed on January 23, 1985.

        These are the first "Bshki" since 1985

        and this is how they began to iron since 1987

        In my battalion there were both of these, and the tanks were produced in 1987-88...
        1. +1
          5 August 2013 22: 06
          Quote: svp67
          about the built-in remote sensing

          and this is just the T-72bM from 1988, when the T-64 was no longer produced
          otherwise you can remember the T-72B-1 without Kuva
          1. 0
            5 August 2013 22: 15
            Quote: Kars
            and this is just the T-72bM from 1988, when the T-64 was no longer produced
            You know, according to our documentation, it was described as volume 184 - that one and this one differed only in the remote sensing device... And since these particular machines are the same age as the last of the T64 - T64BV, then why not compare them? Which is what I did to the best of my knowledge. Is there something wrong?
            1. +2
              6 August 2013 20: 31
              Quote: svp67
              And since these cars are the same age as the last of the T64 - T64BV

              Well, not quite. We were talking specifically about the T-64B 1976.
              And BV 1984, would you like to compare with the T-72B with the Contact kit please, but please compare the T-72BM with the T-80U (219AS)
  4. -1
    3 August 2013 19: 25
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: alexpro66
    I personally did not participate in the purchase and cannot disclose the list))) These questions are for the Moscow Region

    I wonder if what you wrote is stupid, but should I write to the Moscow Region for confirmation?
    PAKFA was created with Russian money and its filling is completely domestic. On its basis and with Indian money they will create an aircraft for India, but all this is still at the level of negotiations.
    I repeat: Indians have nothing to do with the creation of PAKFA (neither money nor electronics).
    The paralay clearly describes this, but there are also plenty of other sources to support this information.

    Don’t tell me that India’s participation in the development of the export version of the PAK-FA was not written except by the lazy press - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81% D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0

    %B8%D0%B2%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%

    BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81_%D1%84%D1%80%D0%

    BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B

    8 and about the level of cooperation with them in general in terms of the complex, no one will open their cards to you just like with armata. What negotiations were completed long ago and the Jews poured in money. I don’t argue that the development is 100 percent ours, but the participation of the Indians meant financing the export version, but who told you that ALL COMPONENTS ARE DOMESTIC?????? WITHOUT THE KRANCHES AND INDIANS AND EVEN THE KOREANS, WE WOULD NOT HAVE FLYED ANYTHING, AND IF WE HAD FLYED, THE MASS OF EQUIPMENT FROM HISTORICAL COMPONENTS WOULD WEIGH TWO TIMES MORE THAN THE CURRENT ONE. It is clear that Indians will not get full access to technology, but this does not mean that the plane will be built from scratch http://www.vedomosti.ru/companies/news/14177671/times-of-india-soobschaet-o-zaty
    agivanii-srokov-v-rabote-nad
    1. +1
      3 August 2013 19: 41
      Quote: alexpro66
      Don’t tell me that India’s participation in the development of the export version of the PAK-FA was not written except by the lazy press...

      Something like a conversation between two deaf people....
      I wrote: "... PAKFA was created with Russian money and its filling is completely domestic. On its basis and with Indian money they will create an aircraft for India, ... "

      Electronics:
      read
      "....Su-30MKI (modernized, commercial, Indian; Flanker-H) - version of the Su-30MK for India. Multifunctional two-seat fighter with a front horizontal tail and a thrust-vectoring engine (AL-31FP), with avionics produced within the framework of international cooperation Russia - France - Israel - India, with the new radar N011M "Bars" with a passive phased array antenna (PFAR) and an expanded range of air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons...."

      That is, even for the aircraft they ordered for themselves, they are not able to make the electronics themselves.
  5. -1
    3 August 2013 19: 58
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: alexpro66
    Don’t tell me that India’s participation in the development of the export version of the PAK-FA was not written except by the lazy press...

    Something like a conversation between two deaf people....
    I wrote: "... PAKFA was created with Russian money and its filling is completely domestic. On its basis and with Indian money they will create an aircraft for India, ... "

    Sorry, the PAK-FA IS NOT YET CREATED IN THE FINAL VERSION - Indian money is used to refine and develop our car in the same way as to create an export version, and who told you that the filling is 100 percent domestic?? NOBODY except the Indians and the French (and even then with restrictions) will sell us the latest and even the penultimate technologies for the production of the elemental base necessary for the PAK-FA - ARE YOU SO NAIVE OR DO YOU NOT KNOW THE STATE OF THE DOMESTIC DEFENSE INDUSTRY IN THE FIELD OF ELECTRONICS!!?? Assembly at a domestic enterprise, even a defense enterprise, does not mean using only domestic components. Simply because our microcircuits are the BIGGEST microcircuits in the world, after the North Korean ones))) It’s also a problem for Almaty. Electronics were soldered almost the entire last year and this year, they achieved a reduction in blocks and a smaller size. heat generation resistance to electromagnetic pulses only thanks to IMPORTED components - from our electromagnetically resistant microprocessors you can only build rockets like Satan and not tanks, and even more so airplanes like PAK-FA
    1. +2
      3 August 2013 20: 10
      Quote: alexpro66
      Assembly at a domestic enterprise, even a defense enterprise, does not mean using only domestic components.

      I don’t argue with this. Our equipment contains some imported components. But completed imported products are installed only on export modifications of aircraft, in accordance with agreements with the buyer.
  6. -1
    3 August 2013 20: 04
    ISRAEL WILL NOT SELL US COMPONENTS BUT ONLY READY BLOCKS (and according to the latest data, problems have already begun) - IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF TOMORROW THEY ARE FORBIDDEN TO SELL US FILLINGS - ISRAEL'S ENTIRE CURRENT GAME IS AN ATTEMPT OF THE USA TO HOOK US ON AN IMPORTED NEEDLE - SO THAT THEY DON'T DEVELOP WITH HOWLING MICRO ELECTRONICS. Of the countries that sold us technologies, more or less modern technologies, only France, India and Korea; another question is that money for the production of enterprises (or modernization) has not yet been allocated!!!! (except for thermal imagers)
  7. +1
    3 August 2013 20: 11
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Blaming the lack of a high-quality (expensive) control system on the manufacturers of the T-72 tank is very incorrect, since this is not their fault.
    The question is really not simple. Of course you can say - what did they choose, what is worse? But in the USSR they could have been “obliged”. I think that they themselves have become hostages of their own concept of using what has already been proven. The sight on the T72 was transferred from the T64, where it proved its reliability and relative effectiveness, or rather, complete superiority over optical rangefinders. But in the future they could achieve more advanced modifications of this sight and fire control system...
  8. 0
    3 August 2013 20: 42
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: alexpro66
    Assembly at a domestic enterprise, even a defense enterprise, does not mean using only domestic components.

    I don’t argue with this. Our equipment contains some imported components. But completed imported products are installed only on export modifications of aircraft, in accordance with agreements with the buyer.

    This is what I meant; 100 percent blocks from imported components are not produced for our needs - we still lacked this)))
  9. Lukich
    +1
    4 August 2013 18: 57
    Quote: tronin.maxim
    No matter what informational attacks there are on the T-90, it is the best! Many buyer countries know this, for example India, which conducted rigorous tests for the tank! Let the enemies look at or test our tank, but everyone can throw mud (although here we must take into account that they are paid money for this).


    ...Nothing! - tanks are not afraid of dirt - let them check!!!..."cheapness" in our case is when we lower the price of an enemy tank to the price of scrap metal!...
  10. 0
    4 August 2013 20: 08
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    about Indians if you don’t know the background

    Do you naturally know? From the same glitches that shared with you reports on the 152 mm gun?
    Quote: alexpro66
    in turn, they are trying to invest money in fine-tuning the 195, but there are also UVZ problems there

    Wow, wow, Indians know about 195, but the general public doesn’t.

    Naturally! Well, our glitches in MO are more adequate than yours - especially your personal ones regarding the Stronghold! By the way, I laid out the projections of the Oplot and MS for you, so take the trouble to print them out and take a ruler to measure the dimensions of the sights and fuel barrels - your Oplot sight is the same size as the barrel drawn on the projection of the Stronghold, and our (French) sight is much smaller than the barrel! This is also taking into account the fact that on the MC the sight is behind the turret and in order to raise it you need a pedestal, and your miracle sight is strictly in the frontal (especially vulnerable) zone - so leave the tales about the same dimensions of the sight for children or give the EXACT dimensions..
    You are again trying to distort - will he clarify WHAT do the Indians know about 195?? (the fact that 195 exists has been mentioned more than once in the press, so this is no secret for Indians; this is probably news only for Ukraine)) And what should the general public know??
    1. +1
      4 August 2013 20: 59
      Quote: alexpro66
      Well, our glitches in MO are more adequate

      wow, they also serve? Do you have such widespread hallucinations?
      Quote: alexpro66
      Oplota and MS, take the trouble to print them out and take a ruler to measure the dimensions

      you prove that they are authentic and to scale - you have pictures, not drawings.
      Quote: alexpro66
      your Oplotov sight is the same size as the barrel drawn on the projection

      only in the universe of your glitches) By the way, I have a Leclerc in a scale of 0 to 1 and there are barrels from Soviet tanks in a scale of 35 to 1 and they are not even close to the same.
      Quote: alexpro66
      then also taking into account the fact that on the MS there is a sight behind the turret and so that

      but the size is not much smaller and this is your problem with lifting. Unfortunately, the quality cannot be reliably compared.
      Quote: alexpro66
      You are again trying to distort - will he clarify WHAT do the Indians know about 195?

      So they're going to put their money into a pig in a poke? Well, you're getting more and more cheerful and moving out - you're probably drinking blackly there?
      Quote: alexpro66
      t was mentioned more than once in the press t

      they also write a lot of things on the fences - the Black Eagle was also mentioned in the press and even the year of mass production was published.
  11. -1
    4 August 2013 20: 17
    Quote: svp67
    Quote: alexpro66
    Indians were not initially interested in MC

    Indians are interested in everything that can ensure their superiority over their neighbors. So, “MS” was no exception, they just don’t need him at this stage. But in the future, everything is possible, since they have a significant fleet of T72 and T90 and they cannot simply abandon them... An option is not excluded in which the Indians will buy from us an even more advanced modification than the MS, but it all depends on many factors... Indians are very pragmatic and it is more important for them to have a “tit” than a “crane”. "Armata" must appear and be tested in our units so that the Indians can understand and evaluate the prospects for its service in their country. The question is not about buying a “three-kopeck toy”. India always wants to produce tanks at home, but in the case of the Armata, this is a VERY expensive issue, since it requires the modernization of ALL tank production in India...

    Absolutely right! That’s why the Indians set a course for cooperation in the field of development and production of weapons (and not only with us, but as always we have the MOST favorable conditions)) - this saves them both time and a lot of money - for example, if they themselves developed something similar to PAK-FA would create a huge hole in the country's budget)))
  12. 0
    4 August 2013 21: 31
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Well, our glitches in MO are more adequate

    wow, they also serve? Do you have such widespread hallucinations?
    Quote: alexpro66
    Oplota and MS, take the trouble to print them out and take a ruler to measure the dimensions

    you prove that they are authentic and to scale - you have pictures, not drawings.
    Quote: alexpro66
    your Oplotov sight is the same size as the barrel drawn on the projection

    only in the universe of your glitches) By the way, I have a Leclerc in a scale of 0 to 1 and there are barrels from Soviet tanks in a scale of 35 to 1 and they are not even close to the same.
    Quote: alexpro66
    then also taking into account the fact that on the MS there is a sight behind the turret and so that

    but the size is not much smaller and this is your problem with lifting. Unfortunately, the quality cannot be reliably compared.
    Quote: alexpro66
    You are again trying to distort - will he clarify WHAT do the Indians know about 195?

    So they're going to put their money into a pig in a poke? Well, you're getting more and more cheerful and moving out - you're probably drinking blackly there?
    Quote: alexpro66
    t was mentioned more than once in the press t

    they also write a lot of things on the fences - the Black Eagle was also mentioned in the press and even the year of mass production was published.

    Well, ours still serve! And your campaign is already on the seas in your villas bought with stolen money from the Thai contract and the Ukrainian Defense Ministry (as many as 50 ordered Strongholds-Strength!! However, due to lack of funds, the deadline for completion is the last decade of the current millennium)
    I didn’t write about drawings, but pointed out to you - this is a projection... or do you not know what a drawing is?? What else do I have to prove to you?? Maybe Fermat's theorem???)) Work a little on the barrels themselves, thank God they are the same, or Ukraine has already invented new barrels - then this is a breakthrough in tank building, Putin is already shaking with fear!!
    It was not the Indians who wanted to invest in a stronghold and a hammer and in a promising Ukrainian fighter)) but the Russian bastards slipped misinformation about some kind of 195, so they got caught, the Indians are standing shaking money and the Russian bastards do not confirm the presence of 195 in any way! The Indians are tired of waiting; they have already bought tickets to Kyiv - wait at the station!
    Well, it’s also written on the fence that Oplot is the best tank in the world...)))
    1. +1
      4 August 2013 21: 51
      Quote: alexpro66
      Well, ours still serve!

      Have you tried treatment?
      Quote: alexpro66
      I didn’t write about the drawings, but pointed out to you - this is a projection

      Why? These are not projections, these are your drawings.
      Quote: alexpro66
      What else do I have to prove to you??

      That you are mentally healthy.
      Quote: alexpro66
      Work a little yourself, thank God the barrels are the same or Ukraine

      First of all, you have to do some work yourself, maybe you’ll have a look.
      Quote: alexpro66
      but the Russian bastards slipped misinformation about some kind of thing, so the Indians were caught, they were shaking their money, and the Russians

      Where are they standing? What are they shaking? Arjun 2 was probably abandoned too?
      Quote: alexpro66
      Well, it’s also written on the fence that Oplot is the best tank in the world...)))
      On what fence? Let's compare? Where is it written about 195, where it passed state tests, where it was adopted,

      And the fact that the Oplot is the best tank will be right for you. And if the customer has money, they will make it even better.
  13. 0
    4 August 2013 21: 56
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Well, ours still serve!

    Have you tried treatment?
    Quote: alexpro66
    I didn’t write about the drawings, but pointed out to you - this is a projection

    Why? These are not projections, these are your drawings.
    Quote: alexpro66
    What else do I have to prove to you??

    That you are mentally healthy.
    Quote: alexpro66
    Work a little yourself, thank God the barrels are the same or Ukraine

    First of all, you have to do some work yourself, maybe you’ll have a look.
    Quote: alexpro66
    but the Russian bastards slipped misinformation about some kind of thing, so the Indians were caught, they were shaking their money, and the Russians

    Where are they standing? What are they shaking? Arjun 2 was probably abandoned too?
    Quote: alexpro66
    Well, it’s also written on the fence that Oplot is the best tank in the world...)))
    On what fence? Let's compare? Where is it written about 195, where it passed state tests, where it was adopted,

    And the fact that the Oplot is the best tank will be right for you. And if the customer has money, they will make it even better.

    Change your right hand, your right one is already tired! Prove to me that the Oplotov sight is no larger in size than the leopard sight - give me the dimensions - verbiage! I already reminded you about the insults, and judging by the way you persistently suggest that others get treatment and check your mental state, you have health problems! How is it better at the moment?? Are Napoleon and Honduras no longer a concern?
    1. +1
      4 August 2013 22: 25
      Quote: alexpro66
      Change your right hand, your right one is already tired!

      I type with both hands. Do you use one finger?
      Quote: alexpro66
      Prove to me that the Oplotov sight is no larger in size than the leopard sight - give me the dimensions - verbiage!

      Prove my verbiage. I gave a photo of the latest modification of the Leopard 2A7, the sights are of comparable sizes. What about the barrel don’t you want to continue? Did you find it in the right scale?
      Quote: alexpro66
      I already reminded you about insults

      And I don’t care what you reminded me of.
      Quote: alexpro66
      offer others medical treatment

      How else can you relate to a person who speaks with hallucinations? Who tells that he was given reports on 152 mm guns, but he will not show them to anyone else. Who tells how the Indians are standing somewhere and shaking money.

      Quote: alexpro66
      Are Napoleon and Honduras no longer a concern?

      It’s a cool comparison you have - a historical figure and a state in South America. Although, based on your behavior, you can be diagnosed with delusions of grandeur/infallibility and homophobia (possibly suffered from violence. Have you been in? Have you hung out in gay clubs?)
  14. -1
    4 August 2013 22: 36
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Change your right hand, your right one is already tired!

    I type with both hands. Do you use one finger?
    Quote: alexpro66
    Prove to me that the Oplotov sight is no larger in size than the leopard sight - give me the dimensions - verbiage!

    Prove my verbiage. I gave a photo of the latest modification of the Leopard 2A7, the sights are of comparable sizes. What about the barrel don’t you want to continue? Did you find it in the right scale?
    Quote: alexpro66
    I already reminded you about insults

    And I don’t care what you reminded me of.
    Quote: alexpro66
    offer others medical treatment

    How else can you relate to a person who speaks with hallucinations? Who tells that he was given reports on 152 mm guns, but he will not show them to anyone else. Who tells how the Indians are standing somewhere and shaking money.

    Quote: alexpro66
    Are Napoleon and Honduras no longer a concern?

    It’s a cool comparison you have - a historical figure and a state in South America. Although, based on your behavior, you can be diagnosed with delusions of grandeur/infallibility and homophobia (possibly suffered from violence. Have you been in? Have you hung out in gay clubs?)

    Well, I see that the crisis is still ongoing - Napoleon visits regularly! Verbiage is all that you write down here - with both hands (although I’m sure one of you is always busy with the other - “with one hand he scribbled poetry with the other nervously... ...l!)
    You're just a little boor...growing all day long on the Internet and reveling in the painful awareness of your own superiority!)) (this is about Napoleon visiting you)
    The kaktki (I think you can find their diameter on the Internet), my little friend, measure it yourself if you can free your hand. Well, you are stupid and young - there is a good joke about “something is bothering me today about Honduras” - if you don’t know, search on the Internet. Shove a photo with a leopard without indicating the size of the scope into your...!)) Although even in the photo you can see that it is smaller than your barrel
    1. +1
      4 August 2013 22: 50
      Quote: alexpro66
      -Napoleon visits regularly

      Say hi to him and start drinking.
      Quote: alexpro66
      You're just a little boor...growing all day long on the Internet and reveling in the painful awareness of your own superiority!)

      The coolest thing is that you feel my superiority. Since you yourself wrote about it.
      Quote: alexpro66
      Kaktki (I think you can find their diameter on the Internet) my little friend, measure it yourself if you can free your hand

      Are the skating rinks already? Why hasn’t the barrel drained?
      Quote: alexpro66
      there is a good joke about “something is bothering me today about Honduras”

      You are probably very old, well, you’re somehow mastering the Internet, although you still haven’t learned to answer normally.

      Quote: alexpro66
      Shove a photo with a leopard without indicating the size of the scope into your...!)) Although even in the photo you can see that it is smaller than your barrel

      How painfully you react)))) apparently I’ve killed you once again.
      By the way, the dimensions of the sight have increased on the Leopard 2A7 compared to the A6
  15. 0
    5 August 2013 17: 02
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    -Napoleon visits regularly

    Say hi to him and start drinking.
    Quote: alexpro66
    You're just a little boor...growing all day long on the Internet and reveling in the painful awareness of your own superiority!)

    The coolest thing is that you feel my superiority. Since you yourself wrote about it.
    Quote: alexpro66
    Kaktki (I think you can find their diameter on the Internet) my little friend, measure it yourself if you can free your hand

    Are the skating rinks already? Why hasn’t the barrel drained?
    Quote: alexpro66
    there is a good joke about “something is bothering me today about Honduras”

    You are probably very old, well, you’re somehow mastering the Internet, although you still haven’t learned to answer normally.

    Quote: alexpro66
    Shove a photo with a leopard without indicating the size of the scope into your...!)) Although even in the photo you can see that it is smaller than your barrel

    How painfully you react)))) apparently I’ve killed you once again.
    By the way, the dimensions of the sight have increased on the Leopard 2A7 compared to the A6

    YOUNG MAN, STAY AWAY FROM ADULT SITES AND GIVE THE SIZES OF YOUR BARREL DEPECTING A SIGHT ON THE BATTLE AND THE ANECTODE IS REALLY GOOD JUST ABOUT YOU "The Chukchi is reading a newspaper and
    says: “Something is bothering me about Honduras (AND SCRATCHING HIS coco in his shorts). The wife comments: –
    It’s disturbing, so scratch it less..!”… It’s difficult to get me to eat because you’re young and stupid, but most importantly, you’re a demagogue and a sophist!
    1. +1
      5 August 2013 18: 01
      Quote: alexpro66
      GIVE THE DIMENSIONS OF YOUR BARREL REPRESENTING THE SIGHT ON THE RIGHT

      Quote: Kars
      I gave a photo of the latest modification of the Leopard 2A7, the sights are of comparable sizes. What about the barrel don’t you want to continue? Did you find it in the right scale?

      Quote: alexpro66
      Roshito is a demagogue and sophist!

      And this comes from an elderly fellow who has not confirmed anything at all from his fairy tales.
  16. 0
    5 August 2013 18: 12
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    GIVE THE DIMENSIONS OF YOUR BARREL REPRESENTING THE SIGHT ON THE RIGHT

    Quote: Kars
    I gave a photo of the latest modification of the Leopard 2A7, the sights are of comparable sizes. What about the barrel don’t you want to continue? Did you find it in the right scale?

    Quote: alexpro66
    Roshito is a demagogue and sophist!

    And this comes from an elderly fellow who has not confirmed anything at all from his fairy tales.

    Teenager brogue - in this photo you can clearly see that the leopard’s sight is far from the barrel of the Oplot!! I repeat - do not announce nonsense - provide the SIZES - bastard!
    1. +1
      5 August 2013 18: 19
      Quote: alexpro66
      This photo clearly shows that the leopard’s sight is far from the Oplot’s barrel!

      Wipe the monitor from the saliva that you have splattered on it. And find your glasses. And sober up.
      Quote: alexpro66
      Please provide SIZES - balobol

      After your evidence - well, for example, about your tales about testing 152 mm BPS
  17. -1
    5 August 2013 18: 53
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    This photo clearly shows that the leopard’s sight is far from the Oplot’s barrel!

    Wipe the monitor from the saliva that you have splattered on it. And find your glasses. And sober up.
    Quote: alexpro66
    Please provide SIZES - balobol

    After your evidence - well, for example, about your tales about testing 152 mm BPS

    Bird is a talker! Please provide the DIMENSIONS of the sight and with reports on 152 hoo-hoo not ho-ho!!?? You'll get over it! Although, okay, will the initial speed of the BOPS of 1800 m.s suit you? Or, as usual, will you immediately attribute it to glitches? Sorry, I didn’t receive a certificate certifying the authenticity of the information from the Moscow Region!
    1. +2
      5 August 2013 20: 58
      Quote: alexpro66
      Please provide the DIMENSIONS of the sight

      why? They are comparable. And in the second photo there is an earlier Leopard.
      Quote: alexpro66
      those with reports on 152 hoo-hoo not ho-ho!!

      Say hello to the glitches, and maybe you’ll give up booze after all?
      Quote: alexpro66
      Although, okay, will the initial speed of the BOPS of 1800 m.s suit you?

      no, it’s not true - you are a mentally unstable person with hysterical attacks, how can you be trusted? provide a link to an external source.
      Quote: alexpro66
      Sorry, I didn’t receive a certificate certifying the authenticity of the information from the Moscow Region!
      which is natural.
  18. 0
    5 August 2013 21: 28
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Please provide the DIMENSIONS of the sight

    why? They are comparable. And in the second photo there is an earlier Leopard.


    Well, really, why the sizes!! Only you can make claims against your opponent regarding documentary evidence!!)) I am not commenting on your next schizophrenic answer regarding your health and alcohol consumption! Honduras is definitely worrying you! In addition, the obvious things you show in the photo - WHERE ONLY you don’t see that the sight on the Oplot is simply huge and is a good primary target without any comparison with our sights, and especially leopard sights - only confirm what I wrote above. Stop the verbal diarrhea and give the public SIZES so you can convince us that you are right! Nothing more is required! Is it really that difficult??)))
    1. +2
      5 August 2013 21: 48
      Quote: alexpro66
      Only you can make claims against your opponent regarding documentary evidence!!))

      I provide photos of the sights, you will provide a scan of the report)))
      Quote: alexpro66
      stop verbal diarrhea and give the public SIZES so you can convince us that you are right! Nothing more is required! Is it really that difficult??)))

      Don't you have a peephole?
  19. 0
    5 August 2013 21: 36
    Yes, kars, here’s a link to your favorite authority Tarasenko, there are several drawings (posted by him) to confirm the authenticity of the Oplot projections I posted (which, by the way, I took from his blog). Make sure and try for your health! http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/151421.html?thread=4180349
    Or maybe it’s not a sight at all, but a chimney for a secret solid fuel engine?? The issue of supplying liquid fuel is then removed - the autonomy of Oplot will be at its best!!!))
    1. +2
      5 August 2013 21: 47
      Quote: alexpro66
      http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/151421.html?thread=4180349

      So what? All the same, the Oplot sight and the sights of modern MBTs in developed countries have comparable dimensions.
  20. -1
    5 August 2013 21: 42
    And I also like how your support team thoroughly downvotes my posts! In this Ukraine is united!! With the help of a fifth column in the form of a Mechanic with his retinue))
    PS I don't care about the rating! I'm not a politician to score points!)))
    1. +2
      5 August 2013 21: 50
      Quote: alexpro66
      And I also like how your support team thoroughly downvotes my posts!



      Cool, but this is what they write to me
      Quote: svp67
      I see you have your own “fans”, and they strive to mark “-”...

      Quote: alexpro66
      PS I don't care about the rating! I'm not a politician to score points!)

      Then why do you remember about them?
  21. +1
    5 August 2013 21: 54
    Our tanks are the most tanky in the world, and our tankers are the most tanky. Only here we hold tank biathlons. I haven't heard about other countries.
  22. 0
    5 August 2013 22: 20
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/151421.html?thread=4180349

    So what? All the same, the Oplot sight and the sights of modern MBTs in developed countries have comparable dimensions.

    Well, finally the wait! Pressed against the wall! For any statement, you immediately demand evidence - while insulting your opponents - as written above - just a broad-spectrum buffoon - presenting your statements as an axiom! Learn to debate and prove (as you demand from others) your statements non-sophistically (if you don’t know what sophistry is, look at Wikipedia)
    1. +2
      5 August 2013 22: 33
      Quote: alexpro66
      Well, finally the wait! I pressed him to the wall!

      You have a snack there. I wrote all the time that the sights have comparable dimensions.
      Quote: alexpro66
      For any statement, you immediately demand evidence.

      If you had evidence, you would have brought it, but you have nothing but glitches.
      The sight barrels are approximately the same on modern MBTs in developed countries, and the Oplot sight does not stand out in this series.
      Quote: alexpro66
      Learn to debate and prove

      Why? Why argue with people like you? Well, I do this out of my hobby - trolling, and by the way, you are completely zero on the topic. But he’s interesting, a kind of stubborn lover of pawning by the collar and telling fairy tales))
    2. +2
      5 August 2013 22: 36
      ___________________
  23. 0
    6 August 2013 19: 23
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Well, finally the wait! I pressed him to the wall!

    You have a snack there. I wrote all the time that the sights have comparable dimensions.
    Quote: alexpro66
    For any statement, you immediately demand evidence.

    If you had evidence, you would have brought it, but you have nothing but glitches.
    The sight barrels are approximately the same on modern MBTs in developed countries, and the Oplot sight does not stand out in this series.
    Quote: alexpro66
    Learn to debate and prove

    Why? Why argue with people like you? Well, I do this out of my hobby - trolling, and by the way, you are completely zero on the topic. But he’s interesting, a kind of stubborn lover of pawning by the collar and telling fairy tales))

    Really, why argue with me when you have no evidence! On the topic of "cheap" I really don't care - thank God you are trolling and talking smartly about a lot of nonsense on a wide range of topics! What is most likely is that you are only proficient in trolling and everything else is Google!)) With fairy tales, I am far from you and Mechanics))
    So, according to the sight, what will be the cute troll dimensions?
    1. +1
      6 August 2013 20: 37
      Quote: alexpro66
      Really, why argue with me when you have no evidence!

      How can I prove your hallucinations?
      Quote: alexpro66
      With fairy tales, I am far from you and Mechanic)

      Modesty doesn't suit you.
      Quote: alexpro66
      So, according to the sight, what will be the cute troll dimensions?

      Why do you need them? You don’t have eyes? If you had any numbers, you would have already given them, but you’re just a storyteller.
    2. +1
      6 August 2013 22: 49
      Quote: alexpro66
      So, according to the sight...... will there be dimensions?

      I didn’t come across the dimensions, but the weight of this bandura is 130 kg.
  24. 0
    6 August 2013 22: 11
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Really, why argue with me when you have no evidence!

    How can I prove your hallucinations?
    Quote: alexpro66
    With fairy tales, I am far from you and Mechanic)

    Modesty doesn't suit you.
    Quote: alexpro66
    So, according to the sight, what will be the cute troll dimensions?

    Why do you need them? You don’t have eyes? If you had any numbers, you would have already given them, but you’re just a storyteller.

    Lack of evidence proves the lies in your statements. Everything else in your answers - trolling is growing and expanding! So you will soon start throwing poop at the monitor (when the words run out)!
    1. +2
      7 August 2013 10: 44
      Quote: alexpro66
      Lack of evidence proves the lies in your statements

      What kind?
      Quote: alexpro66
      So you will soon start throwing poop at the monitor (when the words run out)!

      You've been doing this for a long time, but I won't be like you.

      If you are blind and don’t see that the dimensions of the side-by-side sights of modern tanks are similar, and the dimensions of the BM Oplot sights have similar dimensions to the Leopard 2A6, A7, Leclerc, experienced Altai, Korean Black Panther - what can I take from you? Prove that .. Barrel ..You are not able to hold a monstrously (significantly) larger than similar equipment of modern tanks, and this is clearly evident from the fact that you do not present any numbers. Even though you were the FIRST to write that it is huge, and you do not want to confirm your words.
  25. 0
    7 August 2013 16: 55
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: alexpro66
    Lack of evidence proves the lies in your statements

    What kind?
    Quote: alexpro66
    So you will soon start throwing poop at the monitor (when the words run out)!

    You've been doing this for a long time, but I won't be like you.

    If you are blind and don’t see that the dimensions of the side-by-side sights of modern tanks are similar, and the dimensions of the BM Oplot sights have similar dimensions to the Leopard 2A6, A7, Leclerc, experienced Altai, Korean Black Panther - what can I take from you? Prove that .. Barrel ..You are not able to hold a monstrously (significantly) larger than similar equipment of modern tanks, and this is clearly evident from the fact that you do not present any numbers. Even though you were the FIRST to write that it is huge, and you do not want to confirm your words.

    Dear, the dimensions of the barrel-sight of the Stronghold and the leopard - if you are really stupid and cannot comprehend the text.
    Apparently this is only given to you to see - for some reason others see exactly the opposite - and don’t write that everyone here is blind and only you are sighted and smart.
    1. +1
      7 August 2013 17: 03
      Quote: alexpro66
      Dear, the dimensions of the barrel-sight of the Stronghold and the leopard - if you are really stupid and cannot comprehend the text.

      Bring them here, you were the first to start rolling a barrel at the Oplot’s sight. Now prove that it is much larger.

      Quote: alexpro66
      and don’t write that everyone here is blind and only you are sighted and smart.

      why do you refer to yourself in the plural?
  26. Kovrovsky
    0
    13 August 2013 15: 41
    Quote: MyVrach
    The best ???? dvoechnik do not shame !!!

    Pointing out mistakes to others is not a good idea to make them yourself!