Military Review

Bolter and bolt bullet

64
This is the third article in the series "Weapon from the pass, the first two are available on the links:
"And the bullet is ... Leaky!" - http://topwar.ru/30331-a-pulya-to-dyryavaya.html

"Sailing bullet" - http://topwar.ru/34895-parusnaya-pulya.html
So let's continue the topic.

We continue with the lyrical introduction

“And the bullet is ... again full of holes !!!”, once again the orthodoxy from artillery and criticism-amateurs on the forums will say, having read this, already the third, article from the series “Weapon from the Pass”.

Bolter and bolt bullet


And again they will be right, indeed the bolt-bullet remained full of holes, but at the same time it flies much better than usual.

They will not convince even the video will be repeated about the installation and special effects.

Yes, "let them say," "dogs bark, but the caravan goes anyway."

If this material had appeared in some Western edition, everyone would have started breathing to talk about a landmark invention. But alas, I am Russian and the idea was born in Russia, respectively, if ordinary Russian Ivan did it, then this is all nonsense, nonsense. In general, I have been through it many times and do not take offense, I perceive it as a harsh Russian reality.

Someone might think, they say, another unrecognized genius appeared, but here's the real историяalthough it is not related to the topic of small arms, closer to the topic of cybernetic, and yet it is a good example of how we do business here.

I am a programmer and do cryptography among other things. About four years ago I managed to increase the speed of the communication channel encoder (according to GOST 28147-89) dozens of times, while significantly improving the security of the encoder.

Two patents have been obtained for this invention, it is now officially used in a commercial product, the firewall "Continent", and has been certified by the FSB. Everything is as it should be, but, it is now, four years later. And in the beginning, it is better not to remember how much time and effort it took me to implement this idea into the brains of specialists.

A new way to implement crypto functions was introduced in the area where I am a professional, where everyone knows who R_T_T is, and nevertheless, the efforts to push the specialists of this invention into the brains were spent much more than went into the realization of the idea itself.

And even now, many “specialists” continue to talk with aspiration about Western encryption methods, unaware that we, Russians, have a much more efficient solution. Moreover, it is already actively used, however, the author himself finds out about it by chance.

With the topic of aerodynamic acceleration apparently something similar will happen. I will spend a lot of energy on introducing it into the brains of mossy specialists, and as a result, the author, in five to ten years, will not even remember. But I'm not mad, let them use it, it's a shame to spend time fighting fools and not solving specific technical problems.

From the lyrical introduction I, as always, turned out to be “the weeping of Yaroslavna”, but having lost snot and tears, we will continue our sorrowful work.

Bolter and his bolt-bullet

Such a "shaven" Russian conscript turned out to be from the American "recruit", for shooting sailing bullets.

But this, nevertheless, is just an air rifle on an external carbon dioxide cylinder.

Under the aerodynamic acceleration of modifications was not carried out, fired from what was designed for the usual bullet pneumatics.

In a previous article, the transfer of a rifle to the use of carbon dioxide instead of compressed air was described. This transition, in addition to the convenience of further experiments, pursued a more important goal: to check the degree of increase in the efficiency of aerodynamic acceleration when using gas with a higher density.

For piston acceleration, the properties of gas (its specific density) in the barrel have practically no role, but for aerodynamic acceleration, this characteristic is fundamental.

The benefit of using carbon dioxide is due to the fact that it is heavier than air 1,5 times under the same conditions (equal pressures and temperatures). During aerodynamic acceleration, in contrast to piston acceleration, the density of the gas jet falling on the sailing surfaces is of fundamental importance, and the energy of the gas jet to the pool is transferred to them. And the kinetic energy of gases is greater the greater their mass.

The effect of increasing the power of the shot using carbon dioxide was obtained and demonstrated in the video in a previous article.

For aerodynamic acceleration there is another obvious way to increase the power of the shot without increasing the pressure in the barrel. We are talking about increasing the volume of gas used for the shot. If we talk about piston acceleration, then only the gas that is in the barrel and is limited to the bottom of the bullet participates in the shot.

The aerodynamic bullet is “full of holes” and compressed gas can pass between the walls of the barrel and the body of the bullet flowing around the sailing surfaces. Gas flowing around the sailing surfaces, gives them its kinetic energy and the more it passes, the more energy it will inform the pool. So for a sailing bullet it is important not only the pressure and density of the gas, but also the volume of compressed gas involved in the shot.

While the rifles are developed for a standard piston bullet, respectively, its mechanism provides a small amount of compressed gas to the barrel, this is not enough for aerodynamic acceleration, the sailing bullet needs much more gas.
Therefore, it was the turn of special modifications, from an ordinary rifle we will make the world's first real "BOLTER", and a special "BOLT-BULL" for firing from it.

As the saying goes, "what is good for the Russian, death for the German." In order to adapt the rifle to the specifics of aerodynamic acceleration, special modifications were made, after which the bolt-bullet became “good”. But the possibility of firing ordinary lead bullets after the modifications has disappeared, as they say, "she died forever."

There was only the possibility of shooting steel balls, and that, only because the rammer of the bullet has a magnetic pusher.

The power of the dark side of aerodynamic power

"And now, appreciate the power of the dark side of the aerodynamic force," so said the Emperor from the movie "Star Wars."

True, about aerodynamics, I have already added from myself that it was more understandable. But the essence remains the same.

He shot at a reinforced professional flooring 0.9mm thick. This is a serious test, even from a short distance of 5 meters.

Holes turned out with a diameter of 5mm. With a real bolt-bullet diameter in 4,4mm., This is unusual for a rifle bullet.




Below is a photo of a real shooting from a bolter. Four breakthroughs from bolt-bullets, while the first two shots are weaker. Although the first bullet pierced the metal, it rebounded, while the second one overturned and collided with a target. The rest of the bullets began to pierce a sheet of metal through. Such a variation in power is due to the presence of air in the hose when connected to a rifle, respectively, the first shots were fired with air, and the shot power was significantly less.

Shooting was made from five meters, I do not have a greater distance in a straight line in the kitchen. Indirectly, the shooting power of a bolt-bullet can be estimated from the breakdown of a steel sheet of professional flooring 0.9mm thick., Such a sheet is an air rifle caliber 4.5mm. It does not pierce, even at close range, how much gas is not pumped into it.

The power of the bolt-bullet is already approaching the power of a small-caliber rifle shot.

We’re not going to talk about accuracy yet, there’s nowhere to take it, a homemade bullet dangles in the barrel, balancing it is done what is called “by eye”. You can estimate the accuracy by the deviation from the aiming mark on the target (the point in the line crossing); the light marker was calibrated along the axis line of the bore.

And do not think that I am so accurate, I shot from an improvised “machine tool” made of a vice screwed to the window sill, into which I clamped the rifle barrel, my hands and myopic eyes will certainly not provide such accuracy.

Now more about the modifications that turned the air rifle into a bolter and about the bolt pool itself.

Bolter

To begin with, once again, I walked around the grinder on a rifle, and cut down the remaining unnecessary parts at the root, that's what happened as a result, it looks brutal.

Already a real Russian "recruit" and not some kind of American "recruit".

Cosmetic changes have touched the point of connection of the high-pressure pneumatic hose and the design of the receiver of bullets.

Bolt-bullets are significantly longer than standard bullets for pneumatics, it’s impossible to insert them into the breech in the usual way, and in the old manner, through the barrel, it’s somehow embarrassing to load the weapons of the third millennium. Therefore, the bolt-bullet receiver was redone, besides this, an optical sight was removed, it prevented the weapon from being charged.

Instead, he put the LCC (Laser Target Indicator), at short distances it is more convenient. Well, and improved the grip ergonomics, changing the configuration of the forearm and handles, it became almost a pistol type. Now the product lies in the hands as poured.

But this is just a makeup, the pool is neither hot, nor cold ...

Technological refinement of the rifle to the level of the bolter was made in terms of increasing the volume of the gas charge, flow sections and configuration of the caster. For a classic piston acceleration system, such a modernization is practically useless, but for aerodynamic acceleration, these modifications are very important and directly affect the power of a bolter shot.

A few explanations for those not familiar with the device pneumatics, here's a cut of such a rifle:



In addition to the barrel in pneumatics, a valve is involved in the shot, which is connected to the trigger and an accumulation tank for compressed gas. When you press the trigger opens the valve and the entire volume of gas from the storage tank goes into the barrel, through the bypass hole, pushing a bullet out of the barrel like a conventional firearm. In other words, the power of the shot is determined by the parameters of the valve, as well as the pressure and volume of gas in the storage tank.

With a valve, everything is simple, the faster it opens and the larger the orifice in it, the faster and with less losses to “bypass” the gas energy from the storage tank will go to the receiver and will accelerate the bullet. Therefore, the Recruiter drummer was weighted, and his spring was strengthened. This was the first revision.

The second refinement was the increase in the cross section of the bypass channel. In the Recruit rifle, the valve bypass valve was 3 millimeter in diameter, after upgrading the Conscript bolter became the owner of the bypass hole in 5 millimeters, such as a minor revision, but the gas passage area increased two and a half times (quadratic dependencies). Accordingly, gas from the storage tank quickly began to fall into the barrel two and a half times faster.

For a piston acceleration system, an increase in the perforations for compressed gas is not a significant factor, but for aerodynamic acceleration it is a very important parameter, it determines the speed of the outflow of the gas jet through the sailing surfaces and, accordingly, the acceleration of the bolt-bullet.

The third refinement was the change in the configuration of the stump part of the barrel, where the bullet is at the time of opening the valve and feeding high-pressure gas into the barrel. The kazetnik, in the area of ​​the bypass hole, was bored out under the diameter 6mm.

Accordingly, the lead bullet in the initial position, due to its small length, began to buckle and wedge at the moment of the shot. They can not shoot a bolter now. The ball is naturally difficult to mow, and it is held by the magnet on the rammer in the right position, so this refinement is not critical for shooting balls.

For an elongated bolt-bullet, this is an important refinement, the fact is that gas enters the barrel from the side (usually a bypass hole at the bottom of the barrel) and when the bullet starts to move, it tritely presses against the wall of the barrel with a stream of gas from the bypass. In order to loosen this clamping, the coaster was drilled and the rammer himself was shifted so that the sailing bullet did not fall into the cross section of the bypass hole.

The fourth, most important refinement was the increase in the volume of the storage tank, its volume increased from 5 to 10 cubic centimeters. Accordingly, one shot was spent twice as much gas. For a conventional bullet, this will lead to an increase in the power of interest on 10, everything else goes to “nowhere”, is simply lost (goes to “beep”). But for aerodynamic acceleration this additional volume of compressed gas will increase the energy of the shot exactly twice due to the transfer of part of its energy to the sailing surfaces of the bullet.

Theoretically, naturally, what happened in reality was visible on the shooting video. So to say, the criterion of truth is practice, the power of the shot doubled, of course, did not increase, it boosted the percentage of 50, which is also a very decent result.

Bolt bullet

Sharpened a bolt-bullet from a self-tapping screw with a diameter of 4.8mm, manually sharpened, as always, using an electric drill, a file, and “some kind of mother”.
Grandfathers - turner refused to grind off Chinese hot metal, and cannot even find grinding machines in Russia in the “afternoon with fire” ...

The gap between the barrel and the bullet is too big, the pitch, height and profile of the thread are not optimal, but for now it will do.

There is no limit for perfection and we will leave it for the future, for subsequent, already specially carved, bolt-bullets.



The bolt-bullet has become longer, the size has increased from 12 to 15mm. and it now has an 3 turn of a pair of oppositional rifling, this is a true bolt-bullet, albeit a primitive one. The problem of stability of a bolt bullet in flight and during target breakdown at such long / diameter ratios (1: 3,5) has disappeared due to the increased speed of rotation and the resulting axial balancing.

Axial balancing was achieved through the use of exotic and rare self-tapping screws with two symmetrically arranged grooves (two-thread thread).

The real diameter of the thread edge was about 4.4mm., The gap in 0,1mm. in the barrel for a bullet too big, of course, but it was not possible to provide more “knee” technology. The weight of a bolt-bullet is two grams, this is serious, not a single ordinary air rifle will accelerate such a bullet to acceptable speeds for a shot.

Speed ​​for a bolt-bullet is important. And two speeds, flight speed and rotation speed. The faster the bullet rotates, the more stable it is in flight and in a collision with a target, due to the gyroscopic effect. Since the bolt-bullet has sailing surfaces and rotates, then in flight it will work as a “propeller”, this is of course bad, but the negative braking effect will be only at subsonic speeds. As soon as, instead of aerodynamic wrap, a shock wave begins to form on the tip of the bullet, the effect from the negative will begin to turn into a positive one.

The laws of physics will not deceive, the friction will remain, but not the energy of translational motion, but the energy of rotational energy will be wasted on friction, the bullet will start to decrease its rotation speed due to friction. This is not so scary, this energy can be stored in abundance and it will not be wasted.
In reality, holes with a diameter of 5 millimeters with a bolt-bullet diameter of 4.4 millimeters formed in the steel plate. This happened due to the rotation of the bolt-bullet around its axis with precession, so that the rotational energy of the bolt-bullet is also transferred to the target, and not lost. Only it is spent not on breakdown, but on increasing the diameter of the breakdown, which ultimately is the same on real targets.

In custody

The main thing is bolt-bullets.

While bolt-bullets are made in an artisanal way from a less suitable self-tapping screw.

Apparently in the future they will have to order the hardware production, where they make screws.

Let them be not the most perfect, but at the cost of a penny (in modern times, the ruble).



Screws with two opposition threads (even better with three) will be just right, because they solve the problem of centering the bullet relative to the axis of rotation. You just have to order special matrices for toolmaking for their rolling, but this is not a problem. This is only time and money, all this can be found, since "such a suit has gone."

And of course it will be necessary to turn the current "recruit" into a real Russian "recruit", with whom it is convenient to train, it is not a shame to speak at official competitions and use them effectively in hunting.

To do this, you have to transfer the bolter to normal compressed air. Carbon dioxide does not “work” at low temperatures, its pressure drops to 30 atmospheres at low temperatures due to condensation, and compressed air with decreasing temperature keeps the pressure almost unchanged.

Accordingly, when switching to compressed air, the working pressure in the barrel of the rifle will be around 150 atmospheres against 60 at the present time.

Standard modern cylinders are designed for 300 atmospheres, a liter cylinder (empty weight about a kilogram) is enough for 100-150 shots with full power (using the gearbox on 150 atmospheres naturally).

You can of course put the gearbox on the 300 atmospheres, the strength of the shot will increase significantly, but then the gas consumption will double, and the energy of the bolt-bullet will constantly decrease, knocking down the sight. For practical shooting, this is certainly not an option.

So when I do everything slowly, I will undoubtedly accomplish and take pictures, but with the involvement of professionals, the topic has outgrown the “kitchen level” and “on the knee” I will not do anything more.
Author:
64 comments
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  1. makarov
    makarov 27 November 2013 08: 16
    14
    Respect to the author for perseverance and perseverance, but it is not clear why this is intended ...
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 27 November 2013 13: 28
      +4
      Quote: makarov
      Respect to the author for perseverance and perseverance, but it is not clear why this is intended ...


      The author gently and unobtrusively leads to the creation of a unique analog of BOPS.
      Give him an opportunity pull up shoot a similar shell from a cannon of a decommissioned tank at a real target to the tank hull. Tea is not poorer. Suddenly there will be a sense.
      1. atarix
        atarix 29 November 2013 22: 54
        -1
        May the country not become scarce with talents.
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 28 November 2013 03: 53
      -1
      Well done, what to say.
      Praise honor for talent.
  2. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 27 November 2013 09: 01
    +6
    Bolt bullet. self-tapping bullet. screw bullet. dowel bullet ...... An insistent author .... or .... We take a gun with a gas spray. We shoot with a standard ball. We cut off a screw. We put in a gun, shoot. ... We shoot in the air, DANGER TO BOOST LOW FLYING AIRCRAFT.
  3. ramsi
    ramsi 27 November 2013 09: 35
    +3
    but I look, there is progress - the central hole disappeared, a cone appeared, and with a longer barrel and a pool the acceleration would have improved ... The effect of pressure on the surface is much larger than the diameter of the bullet. In conical trunks, this worked, but was not used; here you have to increase the powder charge against the usual ... Actually, it seems he is right, the idea seems real
  4. Storyteller
    Storyteller 27 November 2013 10: 24
    +5
    The case, apparently, has acquired a serious scope, if we are talking about ordering bullets at a hardware factory. The order is a responsible thing, so I want to add my three pennies to the process. I recalled a comparative test of a wheeled steamer and one of the first screw ones, with the propeller of Archimedes, as a propeller. Tied their feed to feed and gave the go-ahead. And here they stand, puffing, and no one can pull. Suddenly, grunting - a piece of the screw breaks off, a miserable shorty remains, but the traction has increased so much that the wheel immediately went backwards.
    What am I doing? Sailing surfaces should not be long and should be a spiral surface. These should be blades, and, ideally, the next row of blades should be directed in the opposite direction, maybe with a different slope, to ensure rotation in flight. The easiest way to get short blades is to grind the turns from two sides to the body of the self-tapping screw.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 27 November 2013 13: 56
      0
      I don’t understand your logic: do you want a propeller? having cut the slices, and so in a straight line, we will very much lose on the breakthrough of gases; maybe it’s better to make a trunk with three straight pyramidal faces on which the spiral would rest, and a breakthrough of gases would go through the formed windows?
      1. Storyteller
        Storyteller 27 November 2013 14: 03
        +2
        As the author writes. gas breakthroughs do not interest us. The principle of bolt acceleration is based on the sailing effect. If you look at modern high-speed sails, then they are narrow and long. And if you try to eliminate the breakthrough of gases, then back to the usual piston pool.
        1. ramsi
          ramsi 27 November 2013 14: 10
          -1
          as far as I, nevertheless, understood the gas breakthrough is needed because otherwise the pressure simply does not have time to work out on the entire supporting surface before it pushes the bullet out of the barrel; but just losing it is stupid
          1. Storyteller
            Storyteller 27 November 2013 14: 34
            -1
            It cannot be excluded that the interaction of the longitudinal flow along the saw cuts and diagonal along the sails can lead to additional interesting effects. In addition, here we are not saving gas, but trying to get a higher speed compared to a piston bullet at the same gas pressure.
            1. ramsi
              ramsi 27 November 2013 14: 39
              0
              Of course, it cannot be ruled out, and all this is very interesting, but if you are deliberately wasteful of resources, then the remainder may turn out that "the game is not worth the trouble." For example, I doubt that the idea is better than SPEL
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 28 November 2013 03: 55
        0
        Ramsey-literate gunsmith by the way in his posts has long noticed.
    2. luiswoo
      luiswoo 27 November 2013 15: 54
      +1
      Not a physicist, but not easier?

      http://safariclub.clan.su/blog/testirovanie_pul_gladkogo_stvola/2012-02-26-17
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 27 November 2013 16: 17
        -1
        simpler but slower
    3. atarix
      atarix 29 November 2013 23: 01
      -1
      IMHO if you grind it will be a breakthrough of gases, as a result of a significant drop in pressure and speed.
      several turns of thread just do not allow gases to pass by, on the other hand, the central part in fact works as a sub-caliber projectile.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 30 November 2013 09: 21
        -1
        in fact, better, probably, a cross between the one proposed by me and the Storyteller. As a pneumatics, my version is better, but if you use gunpowder, carbon deposits are inevitable and the "windows" will overgrow; so you should try both at the same time: the edges are like supports, and narrow grooves along the thread (most likely not in a row, and not until the last turn)
  5. anykind
    anykind 27 November 2013 11: 37
    +1
    here))))) the author calm down ...
  6. Alexey
    Alexey 27 November 2013 12: 00
    +5
    "Bolt bullets are significantly longer than standard pneumatic bullets ..."
    I understand the logic of the author and I think the idea should be checked. But. The experiment is not convincing. The mass of the bolt-bullet from the author is definitely greater than that of the ball, which means that as it accelerates, the bolt "has time" to gain more kinetic energy. Even at a slightly lower initial speed.
    The amount of movement of the bolt bullet compared to the ball will also be noticeably large, simply because of the greater mass.
    The author would try to shoot several "welded together" balls at close range (so as not to tumble) into a sheet. The mass of ammunition in such experiments must be taken into account, and measurements of the initial velocity are extremely desirable.
  7. Locksmith
    Locksmith 27 November 2013 13: 29
    +5
    the author increased the amount of working gas, and increased the mass of the bullet - I think if he inserts a bullet of EQUAL weight, EQUAL hardness, of a conventional design into his "bolt-gun", he will be greatly surprised by the increased penetration. wink
  8. Peacemaker
    Peacemaker 27 November 2013 13: 30
    +4
    Logically, it is necessary to compare not with a ball, but with a cylindrical or conical bullet having the same mass as the bolt.
  9. vanya
    vanya 27 November 2013 14: 24
    +3
    measure the initial speed of a standard bullet and bolt, PS. airsoft players have measuring instruments.
  10. Vitaminchik05
    Vitaminchik05 27 November 2013 14: 40
    +6
    Another question arose - the sail will disperse the bullet in the trunk, but the same sail will then slow it down. When shooting at short distances - everything is fine, but if you need to shoot at 100-200m, or even further, at least 500-600 meters?
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 27 November 2013 14: 46
      -1
      in the trunk the sail is "unrolled", and in flight it is "folded"
      1. qwert1707
        qwert1707 28 November 2013 06: 58
        +2
        How is it "collapsed" ????
        Do you take into account that cutting on self-tapping screws goes at a certain angle?
        And I can explain the penetration of your bullet in two things ... the mass of the self-tapping screw is higher than the standard bullet .... and the hardness of the metal on the self-tapping screw is more than on the bullet ...
        Hence the "penetrating" ability ... of your miracle product ...
      2. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 1 December 2013 09: 59
        0
        Interestingly, and who is deploying it?
    2. bairat
      bairat 27 November 2013 15: 26
      +3
      By the way, in the barrel, the gases flowing around the bullet will rotate it in one direction; upon exiting the barrel, air resistance will spin it in the other. And yet, the armor penetration of a lead bullet is low, it just flattens, if not regretting the barrel to replace it with a steel one, then penetration will be even more than a self-tapping screw, and this will not require such radical changes in the rifle.
      1. Pashhenko Nikolay
        Pashhenko Nikolay 27 November 2013 17: 55
        +1
        By the way, in the barrel, the gases flowing around the bullet will rotate it in one direction; upon exiting the barrel, air resistance will spin it in the other. That's it. And thereby the bullet will be slowed down when firing at long distances, losing the stored kinetic energy and, as a result, the penetration ability.
        1. ramsi
          ramsi 27 November 2013 18: 13
          0
          yes, at long distances it will clearly yield to normal, especially SPEL
  11. srha
    srha 27 November 2013 14: 56
    +1
    I suggest trying other denser gases, for example, Freon refrigerant R-12 (CCI2F2) 4 times denser than air. The prices are true, it is clear that it is not air, but Freon is quite technologically advanced for testing ...
  12. Vitaminchik05
    Vitaminchik05 27 November 2013 15: 47
    +2
    Quote: ramsi
    in the trunk the sail is "unrolled", and in flight it is "folded"

    How interesting is it for a screw to roll a screw thread?
    If you make very expensive ammunition - you can make each bullet with destructible blades (like a crushable pallet at an ammunition projectile) - but this is not just expensive, but very expensive ....
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 27 November 2013 16: 13
      +3
      flowing around a screw in the barrel, gases press on the ENTIRE surface of the spiral, and in flight the frontal cone pushes the air apart, creating a "Mach cone", and the spiral is in the "aerodynamic shadow"
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 1 December 2013 10: 02
        0
        Dear, have you already canceled Pascal’s law?
  13. Alex_T
    Alex_T 27 November 2013 15: 54
    +4
    Auto RU. Children's garden. If you want to show the viability of your idea, make a comparative series of firings with "sail" and "piston" bullets of equal mass, outer diameter and with the same tip shape. You can stabilize a homemade piston bullet (such as a nail cut) by wearing a tail stabilizer from a piece of plastic tubing. If you do not stabilize, then due to somersaults the penetrating action of the bullet will not be stable, then you will have to measure the pure velocity of the bullets, and not the penetrating action. It is more correct to measure the energy of the bullet not by punching the sheet, but by the depth of the deepening into the viscous material (clay, briquette of laundry soap, soft wood).
  14. uzer 13
    uzer 13 27 November 2013 18: 17
    +6
    The author should be thanked for his perseverance and the experimental work done. This is a plus. Only he spoiled his gun in vain. Unloving the mossy ballistics, he himself, in perfecting his projectile, acted in full accordance with the rules of internal and external ballistics: increased the length and weight of the bullet, the pressure inside the barrel and the acceleration time of the projectile is something that has been done thousands of times before it, starting with a large English bow. It does not smell at all at such low pressure, the dynamic resistance of the helical groove is large, the gas medium practically does not pass through it and the bullet does not gain rotation Such a bullet is no different from a regular oblong bullet from a smooth-bore hunting rifle, it just has a large length and lateral load, which positively affects its external ballistic properties. Hence the increased penetration ability.
  15. projdoha
    projdoha 27 November 2013 18: 43
    -2
    in a conventional pool, rotation gives only stabilization in flight, when using a spiral, the most important thing is to spin the bullet at the maximum angular velocity, respectively, the weight of the bullet the smaller the better, then it is easier to twist it. Further in the head there is a comparison of the penetration ability of different types of radiation depending on the frequency of their oscillations (rotation is also oscillation). What is needed to understand whether a spiral bullet can improve ballistic performance compared to a conventional one. It is necessary to calculate what part of the energy a bullet receives from compressed gas and how much it receives a spiral. For comparison, you need to know the initial velocity of the bullets and the angular velocity of the collision with the same masses of course.
    1. Assistant
      Assistant 28 November 2013 01: 07
      +1
      accordingly, the weight of the bullet the smaller the better, then it is easier to spin it


      Weight (mass), not moment of inertia? Maybe it will be easier to twist if it has a smaller moment of inertia about the central axis with the same mass of a missile? But, on the other hand, in this case, the projectile will lose its moment of inertia faster.
      Although, if you make missiles from self-tapping screws, you won’t play much with the moment of inertia, it’s many times easier.
      1. projdoha
        projdoha 30 November 2013 19: 26
        0
        Weight (mass) and not the moment of inertia?
        Well, yes, a lot.
        With the moment of inertia it is more complicated here, it all depends on the tasks. For short distances, the smaller the moment of inertia, the better, so the shell will not have time to lose angular velocity. (Something similar to a self-tapping screw)
        But for firing at long distances, a projectile similar to an aircraft turbine is required. in any case, if the total energy received by the "sailing" bullet is higher than the traditional one, you need to develop this direction
  16. lin
    lin 27 November 2013 20: 16
    0
    "No Country for Old Men" - I. and D. Cohen
  17. Massik
    Massik 27 November 2013 22: 03
    +2
    Well, who put 5 minuses ??? Well, at least something would be invented, or experimented with something! It's good to talk about the work of others sitting on your ass ...
  18. Lesnik
    Lesnik 27 November 2013 23: 02
    0
    I certainly immensely respect people who are trying to realize their creative potential, and you are a big plus. But ... but to me (I emphasize the word ME) it seems that this is a caliber projectile where the plumage performs the stabilization function (in this case, the protrusions of the screw thread). It is necessary to increase the distance and everything will become clear (the disease of sub-caliber shells is precisely in the fact that the loss of kinetic energy occurs in direct proportion to the distance, and sharply).
  19. bunta
    bunta 27 November 2013 23: 45
    +5
    It is not clear what the author is seeking. Squeeze more power out of the gun?

    Then why CO2? Carbon dioxide pressure not more than 50 atm. More will turn out if only to heat it. PCP-cylinders are charged up to 200-300 atm and at the output of the gearbox for powerful rifles they have something around 150 atm.

    The task - at the same pressure to disperse the bullet to a higher speed? Due to the fact that the bullet will not rub against the barrel? But lead on steel (chrome) glides perfectly. And in the case of a bolt bullet, there will certainly be a gas breakthrough in front of the bullet due to the lack of obturation, this will further reduce power. And about the accuracy, in general you can not even stutter. For beer cans.

    What does the hole in the metal have to do with it? What do they prove? Every schoolchild knows that hot iron is harder than lead. That when "breaking through" an obstacle, part of the bullet's energy will be spent on crushing it, so the penetration of a lead bullet will be less with the same power as a steel one? In addition, the "penetration" depends on the sharp nose. Therefore, for the purity of the experiment, it is necessary to measure the depth of penetration of the bullet into a gelatin block or soft plasticine (they are softer than lead) and not a pine board or plywood. In addition, the bullets must have the same head geometry (either pointed or blunt) and masses.

    So, the article is minus. Thank you for trying.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 28 November 2013 05: 53
      -2
      bunta, just for you I will repeat once again: a breakthrough of gases is needed so that the pressure has time to work out over the entire "supporting" surface of the screw, and not just its bottom, before pushing it out of the barrel.
      Although, if the author immediately explained this in "human" language, and did not make fun of us, it would be better
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 1 December 2013 10: 20
        0
        What support surface? What sails? Did you teach physics at school? If so, remember that there is Pascal's law, which states that pressure acts in all directions equally. In relation to the "support surfaces" of this sample, this means that the gas will press equally on the front turn of the spiral and on the back. Since they have the same area, these forces will be balanced.
        Moreover, a gas overflow will increase the pressure in front of the bullet and, accordingly, increase its resistance to movement.
        Accordingly, the increase in penetration, which the author of this kunstyuk boasts of, is due to:
        1) Changing the material of the projectile,
        2) An increase in the lateral load of the projectile,
        3) Increasing the flow rate of the working fluid.
        But not as a "bolter" effect.
        I don’t know how he is as a programmer, but in hydrodynamics he does not understand anything.
        1. Kir
          Kir 1 December 2013 12: 52
          +1
          By the way, at his brainchild, the center of mass will also be shifted towards the end. In general, this author boasted that he seems to have copyright certificates, maybe it should be attached to the next article, at least to attach a part, so for weight, otherwise .....
        2. ramsi
          ramsi 2 December 2013 20: 45
          0
          It's a bit late to unsubscribe, of course, but the same pressure on the "front" and "back" turns (your terminology) means that it will, after all, add up, and not compensate.
          The breakthrough of gases ahead of the bullet is bad, and it must be minimized, in my opinion, it is obvious and elementary; and since the bullet flies out of the barrel, the pressure on both sides of the bullet is not compensated.
          Further, you hope, at least you will not deny the effect of the lever, or you will also begin to "wave" the wording that "the force of action is equal to the force of reaction."
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 3 December 2013 16: 33
            +1
            Once again I ask: the law of Pascal was canceled?
            What is the "lever effect"?
            Newton's third law canceled?
            I am in shock. Please cancel the law of conservation of momentum.
            You imagine gas dynamics extremely poorly, and therefore do not make people laugh.
            1. ramsi
              ramsi 3 December 2013 18: 01
              -1
              I see that you understand everything very well, probably even got A's at school, but with practical application it is vague ... I'll try to explain "on the fingers".
              Imagine a barrel tightly welded from the end where our self-tapping screw is located; we apply pressure and in fractions of a second it is leveled all over the barrel, including around all surfaces of the self-tapping screw - apparently you mean it?
              Now we will remove our plug - and the pressure that presses the same on the front and rear surfaces of the thread will immediately push the self-tapping screw into the rear surfaces, towards lower pressure from the outside, and not into the front, towards higher pressure in the barrel. What is not clear?
              1. bunta
                bunta 3 December 2013 20: 16
                0
                And if we slightly slow down the bolt in the barrel, then the air will pass through the turns and the bolt itself will remain in place?
                1. ramsi
                  ramsi 4 December 2013 11: 31
                  -1
                  I didn’t expect from you, okay, he’s stupid - he memorized it at school, but it’s not given ... well, it happens. You make a much more sane impression. For that matter, the only blunder of the author that I see is the assertion that the drag will only decrease the moment of rotation of the bullet, and not the speed in addition. But I think this is not essential, since he sees the final shape of the projectile correctly - in the form of an analogue of a turbine, where there will be no rotation, and the initial speed will rise very significantly. Another thing is that to select all these parameters is a long and painstaking work by the "typing" method, which one person simply cannot pull.
  20. top gun
    top gun 28 November 2013 00: 27
    +1
    Search and not give up. Many scientists repeating the simplest experiments seemingly studied up and down suddenly stumbled upon new topics. so there were breakthroughs in science
  21. Nikolaitch
    Nikolaitch 28 November 2013 04: 08
    0
    Successful experiments!
  22. qwert1707
    qwert1707 28 November 2013 08: 52
    0
    Note to the author .... try your screw cutters .. dip in gun oil .... or just any car ...
    If you take measurements ... very carefully ... then the lubrication results .... you will be pleasantly surprised
    1. bunta
      bunta 28 November 2013 09: 04
      +1
      For a "pleasant" result, you will need to shoot from a piston rifle. And he has CO2.
      I would suggest another "experiment". Shoot a bolt at a dry pine board until it is as thick as bolt penetration. And then very soft pewter.
  23. pv 99-01
    pv 99-01 28 November 2013 12: 06
    0
    The idea is good. I understand the goal - the most effective acceleration of the projectile in the barrel. But the sails in flight are really superfluous. It is necessary to consider the option of a screw breaking up when leaving the channel. Only the core flies at the target
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 28 November 2013 20: 24
      0
      in this spirit already was - SPEL - did not go
  24. bunta
    bunta 28 November 2013 22: 45
    +1
    Damn, well, you can’t fart louder than the hole. You cannot accelerate a bullet faster than the speed of gas molecules, which at room temperature have no more than 500 m / s (air). Even if you raise the pressure to 1000 atmospheres. The ideal gas for these purposes is hydrogen, it has a molecule speed of 1000 m / s. For those who are not in the tank - the speed of automatic and rifle bullets at the level of 800-900 m / s.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 29 November 2013 06: 18
      -1
      it’s possible, this is the charm of the idea that with correctly selected parameters, a bullet can fly faster than the velocity of the outflow of gases. Damn ... did he really come up with all this to justify his delusional theory about weapons from the pass? .. Or he, after all, was normal, and the process went in the opposite direction ... Though you write a novel. Well, or a medical history
      1. Kir
        Kir 30 November 2013 17: 01
        +2
        Medical history? Yes, no, even if the history of the disease, then this disease has very mercenary reasons. And here either there’s no one who’s no longer needed a model, and then it remains only to wait for it to be revealed to the world with fanfare and all sorts of comments, or a financial scam under the guise of financing something that has no analogues not only here, but also anywhere on this Earth.
        In general, there is a question for the administration, why these articles from one author are in the individual weapons section, maybe it’s time to create a subsection from the project area, I myself would not mind writing a kind of opus from the field in this segment ....
  25. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 4 December 2013 16: 42
    0
    Quote: ramsi
    I see that you understand everything very well, probably even got A's at school, but with practical application it is vague ... I'll try to explain "on the fingers".
    Imagine a barrel tightly welded from the end where our self-tapping screw is located; we apply pressure and in fractions of a second it is leveled all over the barrel, including around all surfaces of the self-tapping screw - apparently you mean it?
    Now we will remove our plug - and the pressure that presses the same on the front and rear surfaces of the thread will immediately push the self-tapping screw into the rear surfaces, towards lower pressure from the outside, and not into the front, towards higher pressure in the barrel. What is not clear?

    Baby, I'm actually a hydraulic engineer. I have been working with hydraulic and pneumatic systems for more than 15 years.
    You are talking nonsense, just like the author of this bestseller.
    Therefore, go to learn physics, for the 6th grade of a comprehensive, Soviet school.
  26. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 4 December 2013 16: 45
    0
    Quote: ramsi
    I didn’t expect from you, okay, he’s stupid - he memorized it at school, but it’s not given ... well, it happens. You make a much more sane impression. For that matter, the only blunder of the author that I see is the assertion that the drag will only decrease the moment of rotation of the bullet, and not the speed in addition. But I think this is not essential, since he sees the final shape of the projectile correctly - in the form of an analogue of a turbine, where there will be no rotation, and the initial speed will rise very significantly. Another thing is that to select all these parameters is a long and painstaking work by the "typing" method, which one person simply cannot pull.

    Well, if you do not understand nichrome in gas dynamics, then who will help you?
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 4 December 2013 18: 42
      -1
      buddy, well, the technique is clearly not yours, try to pay attention to dominoes, it is much less difficult, but no less exciting. Recommend
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 4 February 2014 15: 31
        0
        Not respected, you told the hydraulic engineer with 15 years of experience. Sorry, I’ll somehow figure out what's what.
  27. Nick_R
    Nick_R 4 December 2013 21: 43
    -1
    Quote: Storyteller
    The case, apparently, has acquired a serious scope, if we are talking about ordering bullets at a hardware factory. The order is a responsible thing, so I want to add my three pennies to the process. I recalled a comparative test of a wheeled steamer and one of the first screw ones, with the propeller of Archimedes, as a propeller. Tied their feed to feed and gave the go-ahead. And here they stand, puffing, and no one can pull. Suddenly, grunting - a piece of the screw breaks off, a miserable shorty remains, but the traction has increased so much that the wheel immediately went backwards.
    What am I doing? Sailing surfaces should not be long and should be a spiral surface. These should be blades, and, ideally, the next row of blades should be directed in the opposite direction, maybe with a different slope, to ensure rotation in flight. The easiest way to get short blades is to grind the turns from two sides to the body of the self-tapping screw.

    Very similar to the truth. Although an ideal option would be the same gas turbine rotor with a tapered tip in front
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 6 December 2013 06: 24
      0
      The rotor is not quite what it seems to me, it would be better to refuse rotation, or to limit it to the minimum limits - so the speed will increase, and with it the error will decrease exactly. Here you need something like rigidly fixed to the rod propellers in pairs, the opposite rotation and somehow shifted relative to each other.
      As for the self-tapping screw, with a tight fit in the trunk, it will probably be optimal to cut three thin cuts with a star, but only until the first or second turn
  28. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 5 December 2013 03: 19
    0
    Quote: ramsi
    buddy, well, the technique is clearly not yours, try to pay attention to dominoes, it is much less difficult, but no less exciting. Recommend

    You are not my friend. So leave your advice to yourself.
    By the way, where is the rebuttal of Pascal's law?
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 5 December 2013 09: 42
      -1
      yes you’ll get over it with Pascal’s law, no one is going to refute it
  29. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 5 December 2013 03: 23
    0
    Quote: Nick_R

    Very similar to the truth. Although an ideal option would be the same gas turbine rotor with a tapered tip in front

    And what is the result? You will get a frantically rotating projectile, which after the cessation of the expiring gases, will be sharply braked by the oncoming flow. And you can order at least a devil in a mortar, there would be money.
  30. anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 5 December 2013 16: 32
    0
    Quote: ramsi
    yes you’ll get over it with Pascal’s law, no one is going to refute it

    If you are not going to refute it, then this bullet will be worse than ordinary.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 5 December 2013 18: 24
      0
      Well, so we will wait from you for three days of discussions of something constructive, or so we will write down: anomalocaris vulgaris - an ordinary troll?
      1. Kir
        Kir 5 December 2013 19: 55
        +1
        Well, you both give, because of some kind of scribble, a little more and challenge each other to a duel, the author is a good provocateur to what he brought it to. It would be better if so much energy would have caused scribbler to be clarified.
        1. ramsi
          ramsi 6 December 2013 06: 14
          0
          well, you don’t understand ... once I already conceded to him, being absolutely right. The second time I will not make such a mistake. Of course, the expression could be held back, but his completely boorish manner of conducting discussion requires ...
          My dear ANOMALOCARIS, an infallible connoisseur of physics and a practical engineer with fifteen years of experience, this time I took the trouble to look at Wikipedia (just in case, and the topic is more serious). At the request of "Pascal's law" I was given the formula P = F / S - I suppose you meant it ... But in this particular case we are interested in F, not P; the force pushing the projectile out of the barrel, not the pressure of gases on it ... No, after all, my diagnosis is correct for you; I hope that for the rest, on the topic under discussion, too.
          And the last: I sincerely pity the time spent on you, although it costs little
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 7 December 2013 15: 29
            +2
            Hmm ... It's hard to be a victim of the exam. Baby, don't try to teach physics on wikipedia.
            1. The formula you cited is an algebraic definition of pressure, but not the essence of Pascal’s law.
            2. Only in this case, we are interested in pressure. In fact, the force that pushes the bullet out is determined by the difference in pressure acting on the bullet from the breech side and the muzzle. In technology, this pressure is called excessive.
            3. Cutting on the outer surface of a bullet in no way increases the effective area affected by excess pressure, creating a force that gives the projectile acceleration.
            4. Gas overflow between cavities reduces overpressure.
            5. Rotation of the projectile does not increase the kinetic energy of its translational motion.
            6. The energy of the charge is spent on spinning the projectile. I hope you do not have enough energy conservation law to dispute arrogance?
            Hence the conclusion: the system proposed by the author of the article is a screw-drive unit and nothing more. Only half-educated people, of a modern spill, can hang on to this Hochma.
            1. ramsi
              ramsi 7 December 2013 16: 49
              0
              you are too verbose, the force ejecting the bullet will be defined as the product of the pressure of the powder gases on the transverse area of ​​the bullet; the thread of the self-tapping screw just increases the effective area and it is stupid to argue with this; a gas breakthrough can be completely nullified by making the head cone slightly larger in diameter (gauge). I don’t even see the point of answering the rest
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. anomalocaris
                anomalocaris 9 December 2013 17: 01
                0
                Baby, what is "transverse area"?
  31. sasska
    sasska 7 December 2013 21: 38
    +1
    BRE-DIA-TI-ON
    as the very idea of ​​shooting with screws, and

    The benefit of using carbon dioxide is due to the fact that it is heavier than air 1,5 times under the same conditions (equal pressures and temperatures). During aerodynamic acceleration, in contrast to piston acceleration, the density of the gas jet falling on the sailing surfaces is of fundamental importance, and the energy of the gas jet to the pool is transferred to them. And the kinetic energy of gases is greater the greater their mass.

    and why do airborne Umareks 850 transfer from carbon dioxide to air? and from Benjamin Sheridan or Marauder do not shoot on carbon dioxide?
    the author would climb on guns.ru so as not to reinvent the wheel.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 8 December 2013 08: 24
      -2
      by the way, an interesting twist. I also don’t understand how aerodynamic acceleration differs from piston acceleration, but the fact that at the same gas expansion rate a heavier one will push better ...
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 9 December 2013 17: 03
        +1
        And what is "aerodynamic acceleration"?
  32. SmileSimple
    SmileSimple April 2 2014 23: 34
    +1
    according to the classical laws of physics, the theoretical limit of energy transfer:
    1. up to 100% in the piston-cylinder system (adiabatic process)
    2. up to 60% in a system with a turbine / propeller / propeller (Zhukovsky law)
    hence, other things being equal, the "invented bolt" can NOT accelerate more efficiently than the "piston ball".

    I sincerely wish the author to continue to invent and invent.
    It doesn’t work out with this decision, it will happen with another!
  33. Taras
    Taras 19 March 2016 18: 37
    0
    Tell me about PCP affdtara, let him read it, but the pistons in the car at this frame are also full of holes? laughing