Military Review

And the bullet is full of holes !!!

71
So say the orthodox artillery after reading this article, and they will be right - indeed, the bullet turned out to be full of holes. But this is not on purpose, since the unshakable laws of physics were ordered.


I will make a reservation right away, the author has nothing to do with the subject of small weapons it does not have, one might say, a pacifist and Greenpeace in one person. The topic was only interested because the events more than fifty years ago on the pass now called the Dyatlov Pass, clearly spoke about the use of weapons of an unknown type there. The sum of known facts about the events at the Dyatlov Pass can only be explained by assuming that nine tourists were killed by high-speed bullets of small diameter. So an initial interest in the topic of small arms arose from the question of how to disperse a miniature arrow-shaped object with a diameter of about a millimeter to a speed of 10-20 km / s. Such characteristics should have had the bullet of this unknown weapon.

Of course, it can be assumed that some exotic technology such as railgun was used to disperse such a miniature bullet, but I think everything is much more prosaic, the same result can be obtained using conventional powder technologies available from the middle of the last century, or even earlier. These technologies were discussed in the article “The Principle of the Lemon Pits”, but the main question that remained unlit there was the initial launch of such a miniature bullet and the principle of its stabilization in flight.

Filling this gap, I will describe a real way to disperse a bullet on the basis of a well-known, but never used in artillery artillery technology, and moreover, I will demonstrate the implementation of this technology on the current layout.

Artillery classics - piston acceleration of the projectile

Since the time of the “King of Peas”, traditional rifle systems use the kinematic system piston-cylinder.
"Tsar Cannon" and the modern artillery system on the basis of their actions are completely similar.

Barrel rifle projectile acceleration technology has been used unchanged for about a thousand years and, by its kinematic essence, it is a piston (projectile) - cylinder (barrel) system. Energy to this system is transmitted through the combustion of gunpowder leading to a sharp increase in pressure on the bottom of the piston (projectile). Accordingly, the velocity of the projectile is proportional to the area of ​​the bottom of the projectile and the pressure in the barrel; these proportions determine the limit of the velocity of acceleration of the projectile.

So, both the unicorn of the Middle Ages, and the super-modern art system are inherently the same thing, moreover, the unhurried development of technology has closed the circle, the artillery began with a smooth-bore weapon and ends its evolutionary development again in a smooth-bore version.

But evolution, after all, is not a circle, but a spiral, so the idea of ​​an even earlier period of weapon development, the throwing dart, is used again. Rifle - from the word arrow, by the way. Here is a snapshot of what can be squeezed out of the classic barrel rifle system:

And the bullet is full of holes !!!


A snapshot of a real shot, a piercing projectile at the time of resetting the gage tabs. The barrel of this rifle system is not rifled, aerodynamic empennage is used to stabilize the flight of the projectile, in fact the artillerymen again began to use arrows, a bullet (projectile) such a core to call the tongue does not turn.

The speeds in 2-2,5 km / s are maximum even for such an advanced piston projectile acceleration technology, a further increase in speed rests on the limiting pressures maintained by the barrel of an artillery mount.

But at the disposal of modern civilization there is another technology for creating high-speed kinetic weapons, which came from even deeper antiquity.

Aerodynamic acceleration

Do not think that the author was "moved off mind" by posting a picture of a sailboat in an article on weapons.
A sailboat (clipper) is directly related to the topic under discussion.



Humankind has been using wind energy since time immemorial, and it can be used not only for the movement of such sea monsters, but also in artillery. After all, what is an explosion in essence?

This is VERY, VERY strong wind.

I did not discover the Americas here; this method has already been used in artillery since the middle of the last century. A cumulative explosion is used to disperse small objects (let's call them “bullets”) from the beginning of the last century, this is the so-called “shock core” technology, in cumulative ammunition.
Here’s how the aerodynamic principle of acceleration of a “bullet” looks like in practice:



This is a photo of the impact nucleus in flight, immediately after its departure from the gas cumulative jet (black cloud to the right), a trace of a shock wave (Mach cone) is visible on the surface.

We will call everything by its true names, the shock core, - this is a High-speed bullet, only accelerated not in the barrel, but in a stream of gases. And the cumulative charge itself is a Tankless artillery. Acceleration of the bullet is carried out using the Aerodynamic type of energy transfer.

But this technology is also used as a self-sufficient artillery system. An example is the development of the beginning of the 80 of the last century, the domestic anti-tank "mine" TM-83, with a lesion area of ​​more than 50 meters. But the modern, and again the domestic sample of such a barrel-free artillery installation:



This is an anti-helicopter "mine", the range of "spitting" cumulative charge to 180 meters. The speed of its "bullet" 3km / sec, it is very far from the theoretical limit of technology in 200km / sec, but this is the inevitable price for the accuracy of aiming in such a barrelless artillery system.
From all the above, an obvious engineering solution suggests itself; it is necessary to combine the receiver technology, with its aiming accuracy and the technology of aerodynamic acceleration of the projectile with its real potential of achieving speed in 200km / sec.

Clipper in a bottle

Nowhere to escape from the marine theme, after all, sail was invented by sailors ...

If we consider the bottle as a barrel, and the mock-up of the sailboat as a bullet, we get the artillery system we need.

Well, the wind will create a powder charge between the bottom of the bottle and the sailboat ...



With a single shot from a conventional receiver rifle installation, the gas outflow rate will reach 5-7km / sec to the limit, which is no small and such a “breeze” is enough to disperse the aerodynamic bullet. It remains to place a bullet with aerodynamic surfaces (sails) inside the barrel, and the rifle unit is ready, in the limit, which can disperse the bullet to the speed of the gas jet.

To stabilize the flight of such an aerodynamic bullet and in the barrel and what is more important in the atmosphere, it is necessary to impart a rotational motion to the bullet, but not by using rifling, as well as by aerodynamic method. This can be done using not primitive "straight" sails, but more cunning, "oblique" sails, as a result, approximately this construction will be obtained:



This is a gas turbine rotor, structurally aerodynamic bullet should be approximately the same. The products of burning gunpowder, passing through the blades, will push such a bullet forward and spin around the central axis.

By the way, efficiency (efficiency) for free-flying turbines (with a non-fixed rotation axis) approaches 80 percent, and piston systems cannot convert energy with efficiency greater than 30 percent, as they say, feel the difference.

But this is not all, while moving in the barrel the aerodynamic bullet should not touch the walls of the trunk, otherwise neither the trunk nor the bullet will remain intact, it is necessary to ensure a uniform gap between the walls of the trunk and the ends of the sailing surfaces, and the smaller, the better.

This technical problem has already been solved in completely different fields of technology, the air cushion method in the aerodynamically shaped gap between two planes is already used in aviation (ekranoplanes) and in computer technology (hard drives).



The magnetic heads of the hard drive "hover" above the surface of the disk at a distance of several microns, the airbag is created by turbulent air flow from the rapidly rotating disk. For an aerodynamic bullet, microns are a brute force, there is enough clearance in a millimeter 0,1-0,2, which is much easier to provide.

In fact, the bullet will work as an aerodynamic surface, not only the plane of the “sail”, but also its end. What form it should be to ensure self-centering in the barrel channel is well known to aerodynamics.

Such a “leaky” bullet looms, and this is not a traditional lead blank, used since the “King of Peas” in almost unchanged form, it is a product of advanced achievements of at least two scientific disciplines, gas dynamics and aerodynamics.
Things are easy, it remains only to make such an aerodynamic bullet.

And "I did it ..."

Of course, I am far from the Anglicans' masters with their small-scopes, even though I am Russian, but absolutely Lefty.
He acted in the traditional way for the Russian peasant, as in a joke, with the help of a grinder, pliers and some kind of mother ...

Aerodynamic bullets in the most primitive, but workable form are made from ordinary screws with a diameter of 4,5mm., Long 7,5 millimeters. Accordingly, an air rifle with a barrel diameter 4,5mm is used to fire such holey bullets. So far this will be enough to test the effectiveness of the method of aerodynamic acceleration of a bullet.

So in the picture in front of you are the world's first aerodynamic bullets (or aren't they the first?):



Threads play the role of aerodynamic planes, at the same time they twist a bullet around the axis of movement using the effect of "oblique sail". Air can flow freely through the threads (three full turns of the thread) and between the threads and the walls of the barrel (the real diameter of such a “holey” 4,4mm bullet.). The window for the free passage of air is a quarter of the cross section of the barrel, the bullet turned out really leaky.

Naturally, there is no balance between such a bullet, a layout ,,, - that you will take it from it ... But theoretically such a leaky bullet should fly much better than a regular lead bullet. It remains to test the theory in practice, so it was the turn of experienced shooting.

"And the experience, the son of difficult mistakes and ... .."

Further from modesty I will not continue the quotation.

Experienced shooting was made from this air rifle, it is not a rifle, the barrel is not rifled.

Crosman Recruit RCT525X


The choice of weapons is not accidental, I was looking for such a smooth-bore thing. A rifled barrel for an aerodynamic bullet is absolutely not needed and, moreover, is harmful. The low speed of the bullet and the lack of balancing in the layout leads to yawing it in the barrel, and it clings to the rifling of the barrel and begins to tumble in flight. This was verified by experience, hence the name of this section of the article.

In addition, this pump-type shotgun and the strength of the shot depends on the number of pump strokes, so that the effectiveness of aerodynamic bullets can be tested on different volumes of a gas charge.

Here are photos of shooting on an aluminum sheet 1,2mm thick, the rifle is pumped up in both cases in seven strokes, which is about a third of the maximum power of this weapon. Left standard lead bullet weighing 0,51 grams, right aerodynamic bullet:



As you can see, the usual bullet did not have enough energy to break the aluminum sheet, and the aerodynamic bullet pierced the sheet through. Comments, as they say, are superfluous.

Obviously, if the handicraft done literally on the “knee” surpasses in its characteristics factory products with centuries-old verified technology, then this is very serious. If such an aerodynamic bullet is made at the factory, with the calculated configuration parameters, balanced, made to produce a specially shaped barrel for firing, then the result will be even more impressive.

And this will be done, so in the part of aerodynamic bullets for pneumatics there will be a continuation, the main thing will be the study of accuracy of fire, there is good reason to assume that even in this “leaky” bullet will surpass the classic “piston” bullets.

But pneumatics is only a test of an idea, and if even at this primitive level a significant positive effect is achieved, what will happen if this technology is applied in powder powder systems?

Such bullets with which tourists were killed on Dyatlov's pass in the distant 1959 year will turn out ...

But from this place, please, in more detail ...

No need to be an alien, to make such an aerodynamic bullet, it could well have appeared in the last century, for example in Germany during the Second World War.

It was in Germany in the middle of the 30 of the last century that the principle of a cumulative explosion was discovered and the shock core method was used for the first time. To combine these technologies with receiver rifle systems is an obvious idea.

The simplest solution is to place an aerodynamic bullet in a conventional unitary cartridge, in which case you can count on the limit at a speed of about 10km / s. This limit is due to the burning rate of gunpowder and limiting pressures in the barrel. A further increase in the speed of the bullet is possible only by replacing the powder with a detonating explosive.

The principal difference between the flow of a chemical reaction by the detonation method (simultaneous chemical reaction over the entire volume of explosives) and combustion (gradual chemical reaction) in the possibility of focusing the pressure drop wave. It is the focusing effect of the blast wave used in the technology of cumulative explosion, which allows to accelerate the gaseous products of the explosion to speed in 200km / sec.
And this is what we need.

The only problem is that it is impossible to detonate the entire volume at once. Although the barrel is not shut up tightly by a bullet, all the energy of the explosion instantly disposed of without breaking the barrel will not work.

The detonating substance needs to be blown up in small portions, at the moment of flight past the aerodynamic bullet. Accordingly, the design of the cartridge is significantly complicated.

This is not a brass “jar” with a cap on the bottom, you can not do without clever and unobvious technologies.

Such technologies are already in use, an example is the Explosive Magnetic Generator (microwave bomb), it uses the method of controlled detonation of powerful explosives for precise crimping of magnetostrictive materials generating microwave radiation.

As a summary of the above, it can be stated that reaching the speed of a bullet in 10 km / s is quite realistic even in the classic version of a unitary cartridge equipped with an aerodynamic bullet.
But a further increase in speed will require a completely different trunk and cartridge (cartridge), in fact, the sleeve will become part of the barrel. And at the same time the sleeve will turn into a very complex engineering product.

"And in the end I will tell…",
"Love us with dirty, clean, everyone will love us ..."

Actually, to begin with, and everything, I foresee a storm of angry accusations and unsubstantiated criticism of the idea of ​​aerodynamic dispersal of a bullet.
Yes, let them say ...

In the next article there will be a video of the actual shooting of an aerodynamic bullet made not “on the knee”, but according to all the rules of aerodynamics, after all, I am a physicist.

Then the moment of truth will come.
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  1. goody
    goody 3 July 2013 08: 16 New
    +1
    And again, money for the fish - they remembered the Dyatlov pass good
  2. stolbovsn
    stolbovsn 3 July 2013 08: 25 New
    +3
    Sumptuously! I have no words.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 07 New
      +4
      What is great?
      A mass of self-made steel bullet in the studio.
      A barrel shot firing a projectile from the barrel is, in my opinion, the patent of the century before last.
      Plus, the edges of the homemade craft cut through the target, while the ball is stamping, different costs of kinetic energy.
      I would make it smooth with an expanded bottom - I would get an even bigger gain.
      And if I did it with a decreasing diameter to the tail from the warhead, I would get an Israeli patent for a sub-caliber projectile from depleted uranium.

      In general, the only plus is that he is trying to think.
      Cons - invents invented:
      1. Cutting shell - a shell with a sharpened leading edge.
      2. The shot barrel.
      3. Sub-caliber projectile.
      4. Shell with external thread.
      1. kavkaz8888
        kavkaz8888 20 December 2013 19: 40 New
        0
        dustycat
        "while the ball is stamping - different expenditures of kinetic energy."
        What is the use of kinetic energy when it comes to penetration? The result is shown in the photograph.
  3. fisherman
    fisherman 3 July 2013 08: 28 New
    10
    set a plus for research passion :)
  4. igor36
    igor36 3 July 2013 08: 37 New
    +5
    I will undertake to criticize a little. What has the Dyatlov Pass to do with it? What was already not attributed to ultrasound and beam weapons, etc. Further, regarding shooting, the experiment is a series and the more shots the more reliable the result, then what is the shooting distance? Bullet behavior and stopping power are important throughout the trajectory i.e. shooting must be carried out at several distances from minimum to maximum. Nevertheless, for the plus article, the idea is visible Russia has always been famous for "Lefties".
  5. shurup
    shurup 3 July 2013 08: 59 New
    +5
    If screws and screws are screwed with gunpowder, then this is an increase in labor productivity, but I, in the end, am an electronics engineer.
    If you wind the winding around the barrel and give the bullet a charge, you get a good hybrid, but you have to twist the dynamo before firing.
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 3 July 2013 09: 36 New
      0
      Quote: shurup
      If you wind the winding around the barrel and give the bullet a charge, you get a good hybrid, but you have to twist the dynamo before firing.

      Strongly true Shurup. hi
      Electric current can propagate at a speed of up to 300000 km / s. (It approaches the speed of light only in superconductors under absolutely vacuum)
      Lightnings differ not only in size, they flash in the sky at different speeds. “Slow” lightning per second covers a distance of about 200 kilometers, which means that two-kilometer lightning takes one hundredth of a second to “grow” from root to top. But in some cases, lightning can be ten times faster. With recoil, they can reach the highest speed - 140 kilometers per second; this is almost half the speed of light. And in the upper atmosphere almost reach this value, the speed of light.

      Therefore, questions arise for screws and wind.
      It is easier to place an electric charge of "turbid" polarity in a bullet, and the flight speed will increase and the friction will decrease. wink
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 09 New
        0
        Slow lightning - just glows longer.
        But the speed of electrons is still the same.
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 3 July 2013 23: 24 New
          -1
          Quote: dustycat
          Slow lightning - just glows longer. And the speed of electrons is still the same.

          Like they threw their three pennies?
          Quote: dustycat
          Slow lightning - just glows longer

          Like on a handbrake or the mood is not this or that?
          Quote: dustycat
          And the speed of electrons is still the same

          And what is the question of scientists seeking colds and vacuums if the speed of electrons is the same?
          m-ya-ya.
  6. duchy
    duchy 3 July 2013 09: 10 New
    +2
    The Great Lefties did not transfer in the country of Russia from the people, where the shitmocrats can compete with us there. +++ drinks
  7. master_rem
    master_rem 3 July 2013 09: 28 New
    +2
    Indeed, if we have such gas velocities in a conventional powder shot — why not increase the efficiency of the momentum transfer to the accelerated body — this is more a technical issue than a fundamental one!
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 11 New
      0
      This was tested by the Germans in the early 1940s, and Iraqis in the late 1980s.
      Moreover, the son of the one who did this in Germany worked in Iraq.
      It seems to have banged him.
      1. Cat
        Cat 3 July 2013 23: 33 New
        0
        Quote: dustycat
        This was tested by the Germans in the early 1940s, and Iraqis in the late 1980s.
        Moreover, the son of the one who did this in Germany worked in Iraq.
        It seems to have banged him.

        Not that one. A certain Gerald Bull, an American (or a Canadian, I don’t remember) worked in Iraq. In any case, neither he nor his ancestors had anything to do with Germany and the V-3 project. He worked for a long time in the USA, one of the super-tools he created still rusts on some island. But then - the Yankees covered the topic, considering it unnecessary and unpromising. Left without sponsors, Bulle shook his eyes around the world, offering his services here and there, created a number of very effective artillery systems, and eventually ended up in Iraq - having interested Saddam with his ultra-long-range weapon project. But he did not succeed in building his super-gun called Big Babylon: at first, parts of the guns ordered under the guise of details of the pipeline were confiscated in England, and a little later Bulle himself was killed by Mossad agents.
      2. sasska
        sasska 27 November 2013 11: 20 New
        +1
        Is this about Canadian engineer Gerald Bull talking?
        but there, before the shot, an artificial vacuum was created in the barrel and a shell weighing several hundred kilograms flew out of it at a speed of 13000 km / h. and the estimated firing range was assumed to be one thousand kilometers conventional shells and up to two thousand - ammunition.
        that is, an innovative "bullet hole" was not even discussed hi
  8. ded10041948
    ded10041948 3 July 2013 09: 39 New
    +5
    The idea is crazy enough to have a right to exist!
    1. Mouse
      Mouse 14 September 2013 23: 27 New
      +1
      ... but only in the hospital.
  9. Pacifist
    Pacifist 3 July 2013 09: 43 New
    10
    The idea is excellent, only a small proposal, with an increase in the speed of the bullet, the air resistance begins to increase non-linearly, there is an idea that the shape of the bullet must still be of higher aerodynamic quality. For example, like the tip of a screw. Although, in my opinion, even a poker at a speed of 200 km / s will strike Abrams right through. drinks
    1. 46bob46
      46bob46 3 July 2013 11: 06 New
      +2
      If it doesn’t break, it’s about to decompose the molecules. Estimate the release of 7kg of energy of the disc when it comes into contact with the target and according to the table, transfer it to the charge power in t.
      1. Pacifist
        Pacifist 3 July 2013 12: 50 New
        +1
        hmm ... here I laughed ... according to calculations at a distance of up to 50m from the place of contact, the temperature will be like an area ... 2k ... really, if not all, part of Abrams will evaporate ... yes This is already akin to TNW ...
        1. mga04
          mga04 3 July 2013 13: 50 New
          0
          smile "part of Abrams evaporate"
          Only if Abrams is the name of a spaceship. And so the scrap will evaporate before reaching the target.
          1. dustycat
            dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 13 New
            0
            One of our compatriots offered a burning warhead for hypersonic ammunition.
            And actually higher speeds turned out.
            Only railgun use for dispersal, he did not guess.
            Offered for Gauss.
  10. Fetel
    Fetel 3 July 2013 10: 13 New
    0
    Sounds convincing.
  11. Begemot
    Begemot 3 July 2013 10: 14 New
    0
    I read to the middle and threw it. If you use a rocket to launch 32 kg of weight into space, suspend an ion engine and control engines, accelerate it to 20 km / s (three years), and then send it to an enemy tank, then nothing will remain of it. I didn’t put a minus just for the fact that the man worked, after all, writing this article.
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 3 July 2013 12: 31 New
      +3
      It seems to me that the technical conditions of the experiment do not reach the laboratory a bit, neither the mass of bullets nor the material is indicated.
      The idea may be interesting, but it requires a test and mathematical study.
      In addition, the outflow velocity of the best blasting explosives is less than 10 km / s, non-blasting ones do not hold out at all, and it is not always possible to realize the gas generation potential.
      1. Pacifist
        Pacifist 3 July 2013 13: 02 New
        +1
        The speed of the cumulative jet can reach 90km / s, which can give, in the zone of contact with the barrier, a pressure of 10 ^ 5 kgf / cm². So what is proposed makes sense.

        IMHO: In addition, it is checked by fairly simple means. Even a simple modification of the existing ammunition for a smoothbore carbine in 5.45 / 7.62 calibers will allow checking the change in the characteristics of the ammunition in "home" conditions. And a bullet with such parameters and characteristics, for verification, can be made by any hunter with experience and with hands. With all this, if the "armor penetration" grows at least twice, it already makes sense to do this.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 22 New
          0
          From a 12-gauge rifle, fire a cartridge 410.
          It has already been invented.
        2. carbofo
          carbofo 4 July 2013 00: 34 New
          0
          Any projectile in the focus of the explosive will evaporate, which violates the integrity of the bullet.
    2. dustycat
      dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 20 New
      0
      Well, if you apply an orbital maneuver around the moon, then three years to accelerate to 20km / s is not necessary.
      The problem is how to fly through the atmosphere.

      By the way, a good version of non-nuclear weapons of power equivalent to nuclear bombs has been repeatedly invented by science fiction writers.
      Just a piece of rock weighing several tens of tons launched normal to the surface of the earth at the point of destruction with an initial velocity less than orbital.
      Asteroid landing technology has already been developed. If the landing module will have the simplest solar-powered ion engine — already developed — what the hell needs a nuclear arsenal for Iran, China, or nuclear-free Japan?
  12. engineer74
    engineer74 3 July 2013 10: 49 New
    +8
    The author is uniquely + good This is not an aquarium from AK smash!
    Only the experiment is a little embarrassing: it is incorrect to compare the penetration of an aluminum sheet with a steel hardened self-tapping screw and a lead bullet, in the second case a decent part of the energy is spent on the deformation of the bullet itself. We look forward to continuing.
    PS I hope tourists will not be involved in further experiments? If another "Dyatlov pass" appears, we will know who it is .... wink
  13. AlexeyD
    AlexeyD 3 July 2013 10: 53 New
    +6
    Here I am talking about too, the experiment is not correct. Next time, compare a piece of nail with a penetration screw.
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 3 July 2013 15: 42 New
      0
      Quote: AlexeyD
      Here I am talking about too, the experiment is not correct. Next time, compare a piece of nail with a penetration screw.

      Why? There are so-called "bullets for small hunting". The core is made of hard metal (steel, bronze), in a plastic or lead container. Caliber-4,5 mm for "pneumatics". If the author of the article wants to indulge, please, the result is the same. predict right now.
      PS And there are also "bullet darts", you can also try laughing
    2. sasska
      sasska 27 November 2013 11: 31 New
      +1
      Well, there will initially be a difference in the weight and speed of the projectile. accordingly, the results of the experiment will be different.
      to weigh both samples, shoot through a chronograph, hammer the data into a ballistic calculator and - here it is, shchashche. and, then, you can try to make a hole in an aluminum sheet and tank armor winked
  14. Straus_zloy
    Straus_zloy 3 July 2013 10: 56 New
    +2
    it is very far from the theoretical limit of technology in 200km / s

    two questions:

    1. where did such a limit come from?

    2. What will happen to the inner surface of a smooth barrel after firing with such self-tapping screws?
    1. wei
      wei 3 July 2013 16: 18 New
      +2
      add:
      3 the weight of the bullet was written and the weight of the "gimlet"?

      4 it would not be bad to schedule X distance to the target Y "charge power"
      (for both standard and futiri bullets)

      theme dyatlovtsev
      they bully everyone has already come up
  15. bunta
    bunta 3 July 2013 11: 52 New
    +5
    Compare the lead bullet and hardened steel screw for breakdown? Maybe to start with a steel ball for the purity of the experiment?
    Slander, are you really a physicist? hi
    And, yes, the Sedov is a sailing bark, not a clipper.
  16. bazilio
    bazilio 3 July 2013 12: 09 New
    0
    The article is interesting. The idea proposed by the author gives such an increase in efficiency that it is difficult to believe. But it's hard for me to judge, I'm a humanist))) We will wait for the promised video!
  17. Sakolik
    Sakolik 3 July 2013 12: 35 New
    +1
    If my memory serves me right, the Germans at the end of the war built another wunderwafl, a huge mine that served as a barrel, detonated explosives in branches, trying to disperse a shell in this way, nothing came of it .... How to implement such a principle in a barrel or in a sleeve is not entirely clear.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 29 New
      0
      With synchronization of initiation, more than three charges did not work out.
      And in Iraq, the son of a child prodigy designer, he won’t even start testing 24 charging loafs. On a modern electronic base with synchronization was much better. Managed to test the initiation of 12 charges before Iraq was bombed. It is a pity that only the main details of the trunk (oil pipeline parts with precision internal surface treatment) were confiscated either in England or Greece.
      In 1992, the son of the designer of the wunderwaffle, someone banged.
  18. demon ada
    demon ada 3 July 2013 12: 52 New
    0
    what happens to the table if you shoot with steel screws.
    1. z-exit
      z-exit 4 July 2013 01: 36 New
      +1
      The trunk of a regular smoothbore will definitely deteriorate in excess, then do not go to the grandmother
  19. report4
    report4 3 July 2013 13: 05 New
    +5
    What a horror. The article is technically illiterate. HOW can such an article get so many poles? This may indicate a rather low level of readers' knowledge, which is very sad for an "analytical resource".

    1.
    Aerodynamic acceleration
    has no relation to the cumulative impact core. It is created in a completely different way and the shock wave acts on the element only at the moment of detonation.
    2. High-speed collisions DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING IN common with pneumatic bullets. The drummer and the target do not behave like solids.

    I highly recommend the author and those who are interested to buy and read Balaganov's book "The Action of Weapons and Ammunition". There, a whole part is devoted to high-speed collisions, calculations of various strikers and means of acceleration.
    1. Straus_zloy
      Straus_zloy 3 July 2013 14: 43 New
      +1
      Firstly, Balaganovsky, Secondly, why buy, read for free:

      http://weaponland.ru/blog/dejstvie_sredstv_porazhenija_i_boepripasov/2009-09-16-
      155
    2. Mister X
      Mister X 3 July 2013 15: 19 New
      11
      Quote: report4
      The article is technically illiterate.


      At the beginning of the article, the author admits his incompetence:

      I will make a reservation right away, the author has nothing to do with the topic of small arms


      Of course, I’m far from the Anglitz masters with their small scope,
      although I’m Russian, I’m completely left-handed.
      Acted in the traditional way for a Russian peasant, as in a joke, -
      with the help of a grinder, pliers and some kind of mother ...


      Perhaps the author of the experiment is not strong enough in theory, or does not know how to write as a professional journalist.
      But he clearly demonstrated the effectiveness of a projectile of artisanal production.
      As lucid as in gasket advertising: these are ordinary, and this is effective.

      Quote: report4
      HOW can such an article get so many poles?


      I think the article won the audience thanks to curiosity and
      hard work of the author of the experiment.
      Everyone can criticize, but to raise the fifth point and do something with your own hands -
      destiny of the few.
      Or maybe you are just jealous, my dear report4?
      They themselves have not written a single article. Like the rest of the critics.
      And you write something and put it on the site.
      Read some harsh comments.
      Maybe then evaluate this work differently, for example:
      - “Look! I graduated from a vocational school, and on a whim I made a working model.
      Let me develop a theme: not without reason because I was the best.
      I will help the guy with advice and together we will give this concept a finished look.
      Or let's make sure we're at a dead end ... "

      The man did not spare the rifle and personal time - he experimented on a topic of interest to him.
      And I decided to share the result.
      To do this, he painstakingly prepared material for a long time, edited and selected images.
      And he is advised to replace the self-tapping screw with a nail or ball. Or launch a weight into space.
      But curiosity does not burst themselves?
      Try to do better or disprove IN PRACTICE.
      1. report4
        report4 3 July 2013 16: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Mister X

        But he clearly demonstrated the effectiveness of a projectile of artisanal production.
        As lucid as in gasket advertising: these are ordinary, and this is effective.

        A stupid, lighter and harder projectile is accelerated in pneumatics to higher speeds and, naturally, it will have more "penetrating power". He would have made his "turbine" out of wood and showed its superiority over lead pellet, then it was possible to talk about some kind of discovery. wassat As a last resort, I compared steel copper-plated bullets for pneumatics and my "turbines".
        Quote: Mister X

        Or maybe you are just jealous, my dear report4?
        They themselves have not written a single article. Like the rest of the critics.
        And you write something and put it on the site.

        Who wants to - he can read my articles in the technical institute of the institute))
        But I think mate. simulation of microdistribution of steel cooling will be of little interest to anyone))
        Quote: Mister X
        Try to do better or disprove IN PRACTICE.

        To understand that people do not become smarter from hitting with a hammer on the head, it is unnecessary for me to check this.) To conduct experiments with a known result?

        Quote: Straus_zloy
        Firstly, Balaganovsky, Secondly, why buy, read for free:
        http://weaponland.ru/blog/dejstvie_sredstv_porazhenija_i_boepripasov/2009-09-16-
        155

        Quickly typed - slammed. IMHO, you only need to buy such books - you can download one-time tabloid romances.
        1. Mister X
          Mister X 3 July 2013 16: 58 New
          0
          Quote: report4
          He would have made his "turbine" out of wood and showed its superiority over lead pellet, then it was possible to talk about some kind of discovery.


          You would speak in KVN. When an educated person jokes - twice as much fun.
          And your sparkling humor.

          Quote: report4
          Who wants to - he can read my articles in the technical institute of the institute))
          But I think mate. simulation of microdistribution of steel cooling will be of little interest to anyone))


          Articles on this topic are unlikely to be understood and appreciated by the readers of the Military Review.
          I suggested writing an article on military topics and posting on this site.
          For some reason I’m sure that there will be several readers who will criticize even the most reasoned work.
          Perhaps then, having been in the role of an author subject to criticism and ridicule -
          You will help other authors with practical advice, rather than playful emoticons.

          Since you like polemic, I’ll end with a question.
          This does not apply to weapons issues, but almost everyone is interested in football.

          Question:
          - How many goals will the judge count if the ball is laced on the crossbar of the goal and dangles back and forth?
  20. Skiff_spb
    Skiff_spb 3 July 2013 13: 23 New
    +3
    Sorry, enchanting nonsense.
    And here's why: The energy of powder gases is used to disperse, agree? Those. we cannot convert more energy than there is in charge into the kinetic energy of a bullet.
    Now the question is how to transfer this energy more efficiently? Moreover, in the translational, and not rotational, direction.
    You offer a turbine. Wonderful. The turbine receives rotational energy, and? Well, your bullet will spin up, and then it will use the same blades to transfer rotational energy into translational energy by repelling the blades from the air? And what kind of friction will you not think?
    And also time. You won't believe it, but if you "fart" into a turbine, it won't even think about spinning. And you have a shot. How long will it act on the shoulder blades? What is the volume of evolved gases?

    Well, finally, think about why there is a piston in steam locomotives, although there were already turbines at the hydroelectric power plants of that time. Probably very stupid people built steam locomotives. I am silent about efficiency, Sadi Carnot nervously rolled over in his grave.

    And now a miracle shot: you compared the mass of bullets? What about the material? A steel bullet will be lighter once. And she will not spend energy on her own deformation - two. Hence the penetration ability: it gained more energy due to more acceleration due to less mass, and it was not necessary to spend it on its own deformation.
  21. Alabay.63
    Alabay.63 3 July 2013 13: 29 New
    0
    Once one figure "proved" to K.E. Tsialkovsky. impossibility of flight into space! On one piece of paper from a student's notebook "proved"!
    Or maybe this is the same breakthrough in small arms that is often talked about on this resource?
    1. Skiff_spb
      Skiff_spb 3 July 2013 13: 36 New
      +3
      Believe it or not, he was right. What is now flying is called a "multistage rocket", and this is a completely different song, although it looks like the same.
  22. KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 3 July 2013 13: 36 New
    0
    Among other things, the accuracy of such a bullet (threaded so to speak) will be affected by turbulence that occurs at the place where the thread ends.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 3 July 2013 23: 37 New
      0
      There is such a technique for reducing the hydraulic resistance of pipelines - to make protrusions of the walls inside the pipe with a certain step and a certain ratio of height to the width of the protrusions and the diameter of the pipe.
      In addition, golf balls with dimples fly beyond the same smooth dimples.
      In shells already applied.
  23. Des10
    Des10 3 July 2013 14: 06 New
    +1
    Bullshit (especially along the Dyatlov pass), but as a popular science and not technical - norms. For schoolchildren.
  24. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 3 July 2013 14: 08 New
    +1
    Need to check. The article as it should be Kulibinskoy - muddy, contradictory, incorrect. A working idea or not - you need a ride in the weapons laboratory. And it must be done, the same Americans are working every day to improve the ammunition, and they monitor the network too. What if the idea is really worth it? Interestingly, we still have the appropriate laboratories, and in them scientists with due curiosity?
    1. Mister X
      Mister X 3 July 2013 16: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Interestingly, we still have the appropriate laboratories, and in them scientists with due curiosity?

      Ballistic testing laboratory "State Testing Station of the Russian Federation (GIS RF)" Klimovsk, Moscow Region.
      Topic: experimental internal and external ballistics (military, service and civilian weapons and ammunition, sights, personal protective equipment, etc.).
      [email protected]

      On the basis of Tula Cartridge Plant OJSC, a limited liability company Tula Cartridge Factory - Hunter was established, which produces shot, card and bullet cartridges for smoothbore guns.
      To control the quality of manufactured cartridges, a test laboratory is equipped at the plant, equipped with the most modern equipment. Each new type of cartridges, before it reaches the consumer, passes comprehensive tests in the laboratory. The ballistic line computer not only draws pressure curves in the barrel for each shot, fixing the points of impact on the target, but also performs a statistical analysis of the parameters of the entire shot series. This ensures the selection of optimal and stable ballistic properties of the product.
      http://www.wolfammo.ru/kontakty/
  25. pensioner
    pensioner 3 July 2013 14: 24 New
    0
    The detonating substance must be blown up in small portions, at the moment of passing an aerodynamic bullet past them.
    It seems that they created something similar in Nazi Germany ... An overclocking system such as a gun. The barrel length there was some kind of crazy one and sequentially there were special cameras where the explosives were detonated at the time of the projectile's passage. Somewhere there was a photo ... We did not have time to finish it. And to the heap they bombed like.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 3 July 2013 23: 07 New
      0
      Did not have the opportunity to bring. The relay automation of that time could not fundamentally steer the process at such speeds. Yes, the trunk was dug into a hill, more than two dozen booster chambers ... in general, failed. Now you can do it, it's just no use ...
  26. pensioner
    pensioner 3 July 2013 14: 27 New
    +1
    And it’s enough to mention Dyatlov’s group both with and without it. Still, a tragedy with people happened ...
  27. vik71
    vik71 3 July 2013 16: 49 New
    +3
    Complete nonsense began in the middle of the article, I explain:
    - All pneumatics (and the presented rifle) are rifled.
    - The penetration of a sheet is due to the hardness of the material from which the self-tapping screw is made, lead bullets have greater expansiveness and less penetration. For pneumatics, combined lead and steel bullets are also manufactured (GAMO Rocket). (the author can try, the result will be 2 broken sheets, without any sailboats there)
    - For such experiments "on the knee", it is desirable to attach a chronograph, and to record and announce the speed.
    - Where will the "accuracy" and STP of such self-tapping bullets dangling in the barrel be?

    It is necessary to have moral responsibility for the published "such" facts, assumptions and "studies"

    I look forward to the second part. wink
    1. sasska
      sasska 27 November 2013 11: 49 New
      +1
      for Poland were made smooth-bore pneum. rifles of the "magnum" Diana 350 (one of them he held in his hands).
      GAMO Rocket is not particularly good for breaking through alum. sheet than the rest of the lead bullets. if you shoot at brittle materials (glass, ceramics, ...) - yes, the ball will be good. and in viscous aluminum such a trick will not work.
      I was also surprised that the speed at the cut of the trunk was not measured. here you can’t do without a chronograph.
      the accuracy of such "self-tapping bullets" is not expected. even from decent manufacturers match and sharp-nosed bullets do not fly very well into the distance, and an unbalanced blank "with sails" request
  28. gribnik777
    gribnik777 3 July 2013 17: 14 New
    +1
    good
    Run !!! To patent !!!
    One Japanese became a millionaire on similar articles of ours "homemade" in the journal "Science and Life".
    And all because ideas were not patented! And he patented them - bastard.
    angry
  29. People
    People 3 July 2013 19: 16 New
    0
    At the conference, with the support of Rodionov, we ridiculed, took under fire a malicious, baseless invention, the so-called "pig-barley".

    How? You do not know this word? Then I must report on his origin. This expression was launched at the conference by one of its participants. He spoke very witty. And, in particular, he told the following. Once, an inventor entered his military institution.

    - Comrade, can you tell state secrets?

    - Of course. Especially for this I’m sitting.

    The inventor leaned over and mysteriously said:

    “There are no more gases.”

    - Curious. Why?

    “Because I invented the swirling device, which reflects any gas attack.”

    The inventor showed the drawing. Imagine a machine gun. Above the barrel there is a movable cartridge, in which a huge number of propeller screws are inserted. When the enemy starts a gas attack, it is necessary to shoot from a machine gun, which is so designed that a propeller sits on the nose of each flying bullet and, rotating on the fly, creates a wind chasing gas towards the enemy.

    The inventor was asked the question:

    “Why did you call it a pig-rotary machine?”

    Followed by the answer:

    - But what about? The bullet with the screw rushing.

    The whole conference laughed.

    Bek A.A., Talent (Life of Berezhkov)
  30. lelikas
    lelikas 3 July 2013 20: 13 New
    +2
    And I liked it - even though I did not understand the topic with sails. The very fact of creating a theory and setting experience is already worthy of respect.
  31. akm8226
    akm8226 3 July 2013 21: 03 New
    +1
    Well, now in order.
    In conventional small arms, the speed of a bullet is equal to the speed of expiring powder gases minus the friction and air losses. Let us assume (don’t throw bricks at me!) That the velocity of an ordinary bullet at the edge of a barrel is equal to the velocity of the outflow of gases - for simplicity of reasoning. An ordinary bullet is made in such a way as to exclude any breakthrough of gases between the bullet and the bore - this increases efficiency, accuracy and so on. What do we see in the new pool? Gap! between the barrel and the bullet! It’s the same as if we loaded a 7,62 mm cartridge into a 9 mm barrel. What do we get? Zilch. I hope you do not need to resort to integration to understand this. Further, with a direct impact on the bullet, its speed can in no way exceed the speed of the outflowing gases - this can only be when they are exposed to the bullet at an angle. Roughly speaking, it is necessary to direct the exhaust stream at the bullet sail, located at an angle to the exhaust. A simple example is a sail at an angle of 45 — the velocities of gases and bullets are equal. A sail at an angle of 30 to the axis is a speed increase factor of 1,17 ... and so on. What cosmic speeds are we talking about?
    1. Droid
      Droid 3 July 2013 21: 51 New
      0
      In conventional small arms, the speed of a bullet is equal to the speed of expiring powder gases minus the friction and air losses.

      Smaller and significantly. The velocity of the mass of gas in the barrel is equal to the velocity of the bullet only while the bullet is in the barrel. As soon as the bullet leaves the barrel like that, the rate of gas outflow from the muzzle end increases.
  32. akm8226
    akm8226 3 July 2013 21: 07 New
    +1
    As for the penetration ability - sorry - the self-tapping screw is hardened to a hardness of 65 HRC units. Essentially, its penetration ability is an order of magnitude higher than that of lead. Even taking into account the reduced efficiency.
  33. Droid
    Droid 3 July 2013 22: 07 New
    +1
    When a single shot from a conventional barrel shooting system, the flow rate of gases will in the limit reach 5-7km / s,

    The rate of gas outflow into vacuum is limited by the value of the square root (2I), where I is the enthalpy, the heat content is J / kg. The specific heat of combustion of the powder (maximum) is 5 MJ / kg, which gives us the maximum possible (theoretically) gas outflow velocity of 3162 m / s.
    Of course, it can be contrived as with cumulative shells, due to the selection of energy from the bulk of the gases, the jet is pumped, thereby sharply increasing its speed. It’s only possible only in the explosive version (otherwise the energy will be dissipated throughout the gas volume), but in this case the projectile will not withstand and at least deform.
  34. fore
    fore 3 July 2013 23: 09 New
    +1
    Does the author accidentally try to reinvent the wheel? In hunting smooth-bore weapons, turbine bullets, or tail bullets, have long been used. Bullet Mayer, Polev, Brenneke, Foster.

    EXTRACT FROM OFFICIAL REPORT TSNIITOCHMASH
    1. The proposal for the use of cartridges with sub-caliber bullets in smooth-bore hunting weapons appeared as a result of theoretical conversion studies carried out by the developers of sub-caliber ammunition of small arms and cannon weapons of the Central Scientific Research Institute (TsNIITM) of the city of Klimovsk in the Moscow Region in 1967. In the case of a successful practical solution to this problem, conventional shotguns could compete with expensive rifled weapons. The first experimental verification of the proposal was carried out on the track of the TsNIITM ballistic laboratory on twenty pieces of experimental bullets manufactured in the TsNIITM pilot production and equipped with 12-gauge folder sleeves. The accuracy of bullets was checked with the simultaneous selection of a charge. Shooting was carried out from a ballistic crash barrel with measurement of crash pressure and the initial velocity of the bullets.

    2. The first official offer of such a cartridge was the author's application No. 1136908 with a priority of 27.2.67 years, drawn up by the author on the basis of a positive test result according to claim 1. According to this application, copyright certificate No. 239074 of December 18, 1968 was issued.

    3. Further studies of sub-caliber hunting bullets were carried out at the Central Scientific Research Institute of Electronic Technology on the state budget topic NG-10-44549.

    4. The first official check of sub-caliber feathered hunting bullets in natural conditions was carried out in the Krolevets hunting farm of the Sumy region of the Ukrainian SSR on the basis of a program agreed on 28.8.1969 with the head of the Main Directorate of Hunting Management MLX UCCP and approved on 23.10.1968 by the chief engineer of the Central Research Institute of Mechanics and Informatics.

    5. Tests of various designs of sub-caliber hunting bullets equipped with 12-gauge folder sleeves for their slaughter and firing range from smoothbore guns equipped with optical sights, in particular, were also carried out in the following hunting farms:

    20.1.1969/140/XNUMX. Makhtrakh forestry of the Estonian SSR. From the first shot, a boar was killed, weight XNUMX kg.

    6.10.1969/XNUMX/XNUMX. Nalchik State Forest Hunting. One boar. Killed from the first shot.

    13.10.1969/2/1. Sumy regional administration of forestry and cooking timber. 3 moose. One from the XNUMXst, the second from the XNUMXrd shot. One roe deer from the first shot and one fox from the first shot.

    29.12.1969/XNUMX/XNUMX. In the same place. Five moose, one wild boar, two roe deer. All from the first shot.

    1.1.1970. Sosnovsk state forest-hunting enterprise of the Leningrad region. Two deer and one elk - from the first shot. One moose - from the second shot.

    26.2.1970/200,150/200. The Azov-Sivash reserve-hunting economy (Viryuchiy island). Tests on the firing range of sub-caliber bullets and slaughter. Seven deer were killed at distances of 280,160, 280, 300, XNUMX and XNUMX meters. Of these, six were killed from the first shot and one from the second.

    14.10.1970/XNUMX/XNUMX. Sumy regional administration of forestry and cooking timber. Eight Moose. Of these, seven from the first shot and one from the second.

    12.4.1970/XNUMX/XNUMX. Oka State Reserve of the Ryazan Region. Three boars. All from the first shot.

    15.3.1970/XNUMX/XNUMX. The Azov-Sivash reserved hunting estate. Five deer were killed. Of these, two - from the first shot and three - from the second shot.

    6. Hunting cartridges with a sub-caliber feathered bullet were made only at TsNIITM and only in small (no more than several dozen) batches for 12-gauge rifles. Larger batches were not manufactured, however, design work was carried out in the direction of developing new samples. The patron was named Zenith.
  35. d_trader
    d_trader 3 July 2013 23: 28 New
    +1
    Having a smoothbore and previously experimenting with various bullets I can say with confidence: nonsense! firstly, without the linings of this device that will hang like ..mo the hole in the hole will be peeled off as sticky, and secondly, at hypersonic speeds, aerodynamics are completely different than at low speeds. A purge is required with the selection of mass, center of gravity, bullet material, shooting speeds. Sometimes a bullet with a small change in any of the above variable starts to behave completely unpredictably, and the changes do not appear immediately, but starting for example with 2 seconds. flight. I can assume that even with the alignment of the plates in the bore and bringing the bullet into a more or less divine form in accordance with the laws of accuracy ballistics, it WILL NOT be! Therefore, the price of this gizmo in practical application tends to zero. Speed ​​no longer matters.
  36. Black
    Black 3 July 2013 23: 33 New
    0
    Respect to the author. for a long time the site has not been "homemade"! The material is suggestive .... reflections that the "holes" in the pool are not enough to accelerate to a speed of km per second.
  37. vik71
    vik71 4 July 2013 00: 08 New
    +2
    I’ll write a review line for this article on the weapons forum by Temniu +,
    forum http://airgun.org.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78175


    Until we drown out the market for hard drugs, this will not stop.

    the author of the statement meant the termination of such "research and writing".
  38. Zoryana Mriya
    Zoryana Mriya 4 July 2013 05: 06 New
    0
    Well done man! Interestingly, do these wonderful ideas even know in the Defense Complex or not? The author should not just write and tell everything, but work at the state scientific research level !!! It is these people who make technological progress!

    PS But I'm sorry that such ideas are simply laid out in free press. The State Department, the CIA and the other Wahhabi warrior probably also reads this ...
  39. vik71
    vik71 4 July 2013 10: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Zoryana Mriya
    Well done man! Interestingly, do these wonderful ideas even know in the Defense Complex or not? The author should not just write and tell everything, but work at the state scientific research level !!! It is these people who make technological progress!

    PS But I'm sorry that such ideas are simply laid out in free press. The State Department, the CIA and the other Wahhabi warrior probably also reads this ...

    It was these people who misled the military in 39-40, remaking the domestic artillery under conical and all sorts of cunning trunks there, jeopardizing the entire artillery potential of the USSR on the verge of war.
    Such "developments" and "research" come with a certain frequency. The author had to be early, paired with Serdyukov and inflatable tanks.
  40. ramsi
    ramsi 4 July 2013 14: 22 New
    0
    it seems to me that the idea of ​​"drilling" the "hardening" air with a fast-rotating bullet should not work. The energy of gases is spent on the movement and rotation of the bullet: if you do not twist, the movement will increase, if you twist, the movement will decrease ... But this is how to twist, and at the same time also make it push off the air (well, or at least not notice its resistance) - in my opinion, this is from the theme of "perpetual motion machine"
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 4 July 2013 16: 20 New
      0
      in addition, there is still such an effect: if the powder gases tend to spin the turbine clockwise, then upon departure from the barrel, the incoming air will twist it counterclockwise, stupidly braking
  41. Zubr
    Zubr 11 July 2013 13: 24 New
    +1
    A beautiful shot of the flight of a caliber .... good
  42. Indifferent
    Indifferent 26 July 2013 01: 39 New
    0
    I shot nails from the air. When I worked at school and was involved in high school students with high school students, I had a lot of airs, so I experimented. Yes, penetration is increased and higher than that of a lead bullet, but the barrel is scratched. And this is without any turbines. If you shoot at 10 meters and the accuracy is not much worse.
    The author is an inquisitive person. Well done, but there is no sense at all from his work. There are no real measurements of neither energy, nor speed, nor accuracy. Everything is subjective, but this is not a science or an experiment. So...
    Is this how the men decided to check whether the iron barrel will fly or not, if air is pumped into it? Flew, so much so that the whole shop smashed.
    1. sasska
      sasska 27 November 2013 12: 02 New
      +1
      Well, IL-38 can also be charged with nails (especially a school one). and I feel sorry for my Diana 350M, you know. and I’m not shooting at all at 10 meters (the screw is nailed at 50 meters, but I’ll shoot further) and - only with good bullets.
      about such experiments - it’s better to read here than to pervert over your toys.

      IMHO, no more.
  43. Nick_R
    Nick_R 4 December 2013 20: 36 New
    -1
    Talented person is talented in everything wink
  44. Taras
    Taras 19 March 2016 19: 09 New
    0
    mixed everything in a heap, the turbine with its efficiency pyriplel, it is necessary to be treated with author !!!!!