Military Review

"Russian Caliphate"

319
"Russian Caliphate"

Decades of degradation of the Soviet ideology and the complete absence of state ideology in the Russian Federation are beginning to give their poisonous fruits. A holy place is never empty. Everything is simple here or the state purposefully forms a correct picture of the world in the heads of its citizens, or other ideologies fill the place, most often hostile ones brought from outside. An attempt by the Wahhabis to destroy one of the largest Russian objects of storage and destruction of chemical weapons The Kirov region, a real summary of military actions from the republics of the North Caucasus, the terrorist act in Volgograd, the pogroms in Biryulyov, unpunished motor races across Kazan with the black flags of Al Qaeda and the appeals “Death to the wrong!”, Statements by Tatar national separatists about supporting Islamist militants in Syria, Islamist seizures of traditionalist mosques put the question squarely. This is a question about the future of Russian civilization.


"Bells"

A real wave of terrorist attacks and their attempts has recently hit Russia. In July 2012, the deputy mufti of Tatarstan Valiulla Yakupov was shot dead near his house, and an attempt was made on the life of the mufti of the republic, Ildus Fayzov. Candidate historical Sci. Yakupov was a supporter of a tough struggle against Wahhabism and consistently advocated the prohibition of Wahhabism throughout the Russian Federation, seeing this as a real threat to traditional Islam. This was the first attempt to physically destroy the entire leadership of the largest Russian muftiat at once.

It should be noted that the mufti of Tatarstan Ildus Faizov and his deputy, Valiulla Yakupov, resisted the creeping invasion of Wahhabism in Tatarstan. They said that the radicals penetrate into the business and the state apparatus, find patrons and sponsors there. When Islamists began to seize mosques after 2005, Faizov and Yakupov tried to explain to the authorities a dangerous tendency: Islamic radicals began to occupy the positions of imams of the main mosques of the Republic of Tatarstan, which are guided by ideas instilled in them during their years in Saudi Arabia. However, under the "roof" of city and republican officials, the new Wahhabi clergy retained their seats. Already after the death of Yakupov, the Wahhabi trail was discovered, and the growing influence of the Wahhabi syndicate on the republic was recognized. The Minister of Internal Affairs of the Republic, Artyom Hochorin, recognized "elements of the merging of individual officials and local leaders with Wahhabis." But the deal has already been done. The virus found a nutrient medium in Tatariya, and also spread to the Urals, Siberia and then everywhere. Radicals began to seize mosques not only in Tatarstan, but throughout Russia. In December, 2011, the radicals seized a mosque in Almetyevsk (Tatarstan), and a little earlier, the Wahhabis occupied a mosque in Krasnoufimsk (Sverdlovsk region), Buguruslan and Abdulino (Orenburg region). Muftis who preach the traditional for Russia Islam are expelled. It comes to murder. For two decades, according to the Central Spiritual Board of Muslims of Russia, 60 Muslim spiritual leaders have been killed.

In October, 2012, Russia shocked news about a special operation in Kazan. The special forces of the republican UFSB eliminated the gangsters suspected of attempting to mufti of Tatarstan after they put up armed resistance. During the assault, three FSB officers were injured, one of them was killed. An officer of the Special Purpose Center of the Federal Security Service of Russia heroically died, covering his body with a gangster who set in motion an explosive device with him. Later it turned out that the liquidated terrorists Robert Valeev and Ruslan Kashapov were preparing an explosion during the celebration of Kurban-bairam, which could lead to numerous victims.

In May 2013, a double explosion occurred in Makhachkala. A few dozen people were injured. Then the FSB officers neutralized in the Moscow region a group of terrorists who were preparing a series of terrorist attacks in the capital. During the battle, two terrorists were killed, one captured. Members of this gang were trained in the Afghan-Pakistani zone. In June, the organizer of the preparation of terrorist acts in the Russian capital, Yulai Davletbaev, was also detained. He is also an intermediary, direct customers are abroad. In addition, in May 2013, militants of the Nizhny Novgorod cell of the Islamic Liberation Party organization (Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islami) were detained and actively recruited members, campaigned and prepared for terrorist attacks in the Nizhny Novgorod region. In June-July 2013, law enforcement agencies were able to prevent a series of terrorist attacks in Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria and Dagestan. Thus, in Dagestan, the task force defused six bombs with a total power of 50 kilograms of TNT.

In mid-October 2013, the FSB announced the prevention of a terrorist act in the Kirov region. Two young men wanted to detonate a bomb in 10 kg in TNT equivalent at the Maradykovsky facility in the Kirov region. The Maradykovsky landfill is the second largest facility of such a profile in Russia, it contained almost 7 thousand tons of toxic substances, that is, about 17% of all chemical weapons that are stored on Russian territory. The victims of the terrorist attack could be hundreds of people. Both suspects are natives of the North Caucasus and are active supporters of Wahhabism. The detainees after completing preparations for the crime planned to go abroad to one of the camps of international terrorist organizations, possibly to Syria, to increase their skills in sabotage activities.

21 October 2013, a suicide bomber blew up a bus in Krasnoarmeysky district of Volgograd. The power of an explosive device stuffed with striking elements was 500 — 600 g of TNT equivalent. 7 people died, including a terrorist, injured 37. Naha Asiyalova, a native of the Republic of Dagestan, turned out to be a bomber who appealed to Wahhabism and joined the militants along with her partner. And with radical ideas, a young woman has already penetrated while studying in the capital. Her companion - Dmitry Sokolov, a Russian by birth, began to attend the mosque, became interested in Wahhabism, is considered a good demolition man.

Goals of the radicals

Islamic radicals operate in Russia almost freely, they have developed structures not only in the North Caucasus, but in Central Russia, Moscow, St. Petersburg, and the Volga region. The semi-underground cells of the Wahhabis, they themselves proudly call themselves Salafi (from the Arabic, “ancestors, predecessors”), are already present in almost all regions of Russia. They are in favor of "pure Islam", the purification of Islam from late innovations, distortions, and a return to basics. Most of them are in favor of creating their own Islamic state. In the middle of the 1990s, fundamentalist micro-states were already created in some villages of Dagestan. They were destroyed by the Russian army. However, later some of them were revived in new places, at the same time the network structures of Islamic radicals were spreading metastases throughout the Federation. Another interesting fact is that if at the beginning of the Chechen war most of the militants adhered to Sufism, which was widespread in Chechnya, then as the fighting continued throughout the entire North Caucasus, the Chechen separatists began to move more often to the Saudi version of Islam. Wahhabism was a more solid ideology for rallying anti-Russian forces, moreover, the Saudis did not spare money, transferring them to supporters of "pure Islam". As a result, the money question greatly contributed to the spread of radical Wahhabism.

In 2000-ies, the center of distribution of radical Islam began to move from the North Caucasus to the Volga region. The social base of this phenomenon is wide. Many young people, including Russians by birth, who consider themselves offended by life, are seeking justice, young migrants, marginal and semi-criminal elements join the ranks of the militants. Russia received an internal threat - the “Syrian scenario.” Radicals have their own websites through which they can coordinate the activities of their supporters in the republics of Tataria, Bashkiria, Chuvashia, Mordovia and Mari El.

The radicals practically do not hide their goals. At the first stage to complete preliminary training. There is recruitment of members, campaigning and the creation of underground and official structures that deal with information support. Caches of weapons, ammunition, ammunition and explosives are created. Young people are trained in camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan, fighting in Syria. At the same time, people infected with radical ideas penetrate into power and law enforcement structures, establish contacts with business circles. This stage is almost complete. At the second stage - the injection of a wave of chaos. Terrorist acts aimed at infrastructure facilities, against officials, representatives of traditional Islam, opposing radicals, ordinary people. An atmosphere of fear, hatred is created in the country, a split occurs along the line of Muslim Christians, Russian “black”, and Russian migrants. Radical, nationalist and xenophobic sentiments are growing. They will try to break away from the Russians the Tatars, which have long become an important part of the Russian civilization. If it comes out, it will be easy to separate other peoples from Russia, which have been part of Russian civilization for hundreds of years — Udmurts, Chuvash, Bashkirs, Mari, Komi and others.

Gradually, this stage should turn into a real war according to the “Syrian” or “Yugoslav” scenario. Russia and the other republics of the former USSR want to destroy it from the inside. There will be no fronts in this war. The blow can inflict in any area and village. Radicals view the Russian authorities and the authorities of the neighboring republics as dictators left over from communist times. And all the secular authorities in their understanding of the "devil". The ultimate goal is the Caliphate, of which the fragments of the former USSR should become. On the walls of buildings in Syria, militants from Russia write: “Today is Syria, tomorrow is Russia!” This is a real war, which the majority still cannot see.

The task is to confront "nationalists" with "foreigners" and "aliens" inside the country, and Russia with the Muslim world

A week before the explosion in the Volgograd region in Derbent and Khasavyurt two meetings took place in mosques. Muslims who came to prayer supported the Muslim Brotherhood, which were banned in Russia. After the terrorist attack in Volgograd, an attempt was made to attack a Muslim prayer house. After the situation in Biryulyovo and the hooligan trick in Volgograd, Azerbaijan reacted harshly — criticism of “anti-Muslim” pogroms in Russia began.

Even before the riots took place in Pugachev near Saratov, in the Rostov region and in Stavropol. Here, events evolved according to a long-established program of destruction: visitors (internal or external) kill, maim or terrorize the locals, patience ends and the locals begin to respond. Simultaneously with the riot in Pugachev, in Nizhnekamsk (the third largest city in Tatarstan) and Dagestan Khasavyurt, meetings were held in support of the Syrian opposition, under the slogans: “Russia is killing Islam in Syria!” Obviously, the rally pressure of Islam on Russian society will only increase.

Another dangerous sign is the role of the political activity of migrants in Russia. Thus, the head of the Federation of Migrants of Russia, Muhammad Amin, confirmed to journalists the intention of his organization to hold the March of Migrants on National Unity Day 4 November. Previously, Amin pointed out that the Day of Unity in Russia should be marched by the army or the police, and not nationalists. Thus, representatives of migrants already tell us in Russia what is right and what is not. This is a very frightening precedent. It is necessary to remember, and apparently, to remind both Mr. Amin and his ilk that we are citizens of Russia, but they are not. A citizen of Russia, along with human rights, has civil and political rights, while non-citizens of the Russian Federation in Russia do not have them. Political organizations of migrant workers, we do not need. It is also obvious that people planning to turn migrants from labor and economic power into political power, we are clearly not friends. Amin clearly deserves deportation, since he cannot prohibit Russian citizens from enjoying their rights.

"Russian Caliphate"

Russian officials are still trying to blame everything on everyday problems, not to exaggerate the role of politics, but in reality political Islam has already become a serious player in Russia, and even more so in the post-Soviet space. Thus, according to the Kazan scholar-theologian, head of the Council of Ulems of the All-Russian Muftiat, the author of numerous works on Islamic theology, Mufti Farid Salmanov in Russia already has more than one hundred thousand "ideologically convinced, it is those who can sit at the table and argue convincingly" Wahhabis ( Salafi). About a third of them gradually go underground. This is a whole army. In addition, around each passionary "fighter" there is a certain circle on which he exerts an influence.

Amir of the National Organization of Russian Muslims (NORM) Vadim Sidorov (Harun ar-Russi) is convinced that the Islamic world will go to the caliphate. This is a natural phenomenon, “for Muslims, the Caliphate is fraternal by faith unity and integration. Something like the European Union, but in the Muslim world. ” The sample for Muslims is the Ottoman Empire (the last caliphate), since Ottoman Istanbul united everyone by faith. True, Ar-Russi himself escaped from Russia, and his associates — the leaders of the St. Petersburg branch of NORM, Maxim Baidak (Salman Sever) and Grigory Mavrov (Amir Hamdani al-Maliki), were detained. They considered themselves to be Internet imams and, through the network, calmly processed people for five years, calling on Russians to convert to Islam. At the same time, they placed materials glorifying the bandit Shamil Basayev and the “black widows” who died during the terrorist attacks, as well as the “Russian Muslim Brotherhood” fighting in the mountains of Dagestan. At the same time, among the migrants, they led the preaching of radical doctrines of Wahhabism.

The head of the Privolzhsky Center of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies (RISS), Rais Suleymanov, notes that now the new trend recruiters have a new trend. “Increasingly, labor migrants from Central Asia and Kazakhstan are not influenced by Wahhabis at home, but in Russia, where it is easier to propagandize Islamism. After all, no one understands, and does not want to understand. " For example, Farhod Khalikov from Tajikistan, according to the GUS RF IC in St. Petersburg, came to Russia for work, listened to Russian Internet imams from NORM, and, returning home, established the Wahhabi Jamaat Faizabad there.

To be continued ...
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"Russian Caliphate"
"Russian Caliphate". Part of 2
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  1. Alikovo
    Alikovo 2 November 2013 08: 40
    58
    It is necessary to expel from Russia immigrants from Central Asia, where the idea of ​​Wahhabism is just gaining momentum.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 08: 55
      77
      Not only from Central Asia. When the Saudis bring the hair and utensils of the Prophet Muhammad to Dagestan, this directly raises the degree of tension in the region. And the teachings of Al Wahhab in the CA are the official religion. And our media cover this event as a holiday, not realizing that there will be a hangover after the holiday.
      PS As far as I know, Islam forbids the worship of things and images. The Saudis know this, but relics carry. Questions, some questions ...
      1. Mitek
        Mitek 2 November 2013 09: 19
        87
        We are now the era of lay people. Upstairs are those who lick better, and not those who are competent. As a result, they prophesy the hairs of the prophets, missiles, migration (and the main problem is internal migration). A lot more of what seemed to be unconnected to each other was happening negative, but the root alone was at the helm of non-professionals.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 09: 28
          32
          Quote: Mitek
          but the root alone is at the helm laymen.

          +, but, if they are lay people in the matter of creation, then they succeed in destruction. An accident? Hardly.
          1. Siberian
            Siberian 2 November 2013 13: 44
            +6
            Ingvar 72
            YES, they are trying to create the appearance of creation. But the destruction of the full program .... Although not all is lost.
          2. bolonenkov
            bolonenkov 2 November 2013 15: 45
            +1
            Why such an awesome resource, like topvar, has become completely clogged with all-embracers, both authors of articles and commentators.
            No constructivism, stereotyped "copy-paste" - "Russia is falling into the abyss", we all fucked up "," down with the Caucasus "," down with migrants "," Islam is a religion of terror "and so on .... Study the issue, turn on critical thinking, create a more or less voluminous picture of what is happening.

            I do not deny the existence of problems, and sometimes very serious ones, but to write that everything is terrible and there is no movement forward ... stupidity.
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 2 November 2013 16: 15
              11
              Quote: bolonenkov
              No constructivism.

              So you throw up positive facts, otherwise people may not know what ...
              1. bolonenkov
                bolonenkov 3 November 2013 11: 33
                +4
                You only confirm my words about the all-composers and the transformation of the resource (especially commentators, but also some authors too) into another Echo and others
                If you do not see the difference between the 90s and the current time.
                Offhand
                1) Russia - the 5th economy in the world, although it was in the top ten
                2) The average pension is 10 rubles
                3) the average salary is 28, can be calculated by deciles, then it will turn out 000
                4) The Russian army was in 40th place, now in second
                5) About re-equipment and the T-50 - already said without me
                There is a resource, Madeownas, where you can find new huge enterprises like Tobolsk Polymer and new small farms or kindergartens in the outback.

                I repeat once again, in our country there are a lot of unsolved and sometimes unsolvable problems, but if we discuss problems, then it should be done constructively, and not according to the principle "who poured more crap, that has more pluses in the rating."

                In history there were no examples of countries that, for 13 years, managed to rise from complete devastation without the help of third forces (for example Germany, Japan) or harsh totalitarian methods, although forced (USSR, post-war China).
                We still have a lot to do, and nothing in this world appears in accordance with our "wishes".
                1. stroporez
                  stroporez 3 November 2013 12: 02
                  10
                  Quote: bolonenkov
                  3) the average salary is 28, can be calculated by deciles, then it will turn out 000
                  ------- I worked in a children's social institution, the salary is 5600 ... although yes, if you take a leader’s salary, plus mine --- then on average ah .......... ..but it will ....
                  1. bolonenkov
                    bolonenkov 3 November 2013 12: 33
                    +1
                    you didn’t read, it says, in deciles, that 10% of the richest and 10% of the poorest are not taken into account. And the fact that there are low and high salaries, I did not deny, and the average figure suggests that with a normal education and a desire, a well-paid job can be found.
                2. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 3 November 2013 12: 30
                  12
                  Quote: bolonenkov
                  If you do not see the difference between the 90s and the current time.
                  I do not see a conceptual difference between the end of '99 and the current time, but I see a progressing neoliberal tendency.

                  1) Russia - the 5th economy in the world, although it was in the top ten
                  Regarding PPP GDP: therefore, the question arises - what good did you see in rising prices?

                  2) The average pension is 10 rubles
                  A full-time monthly nutrition for a pensioner costs 8: 10 - food and rent = no longer remains for medicines.

                  3) the average salary is 28, can be calculated by deciles, then it will turn out 000
                  28000 = 43% of PPP GDP per capita - 40% of PPP GDP per capita = minimum wage of Canada, France and Germany (minimum wage in Russia = 8% of PPP GDP for d / n, in the 10th year it was 12%) - what to rejoice ?

                  4) The Russian army was in 40th place, now in second
                  What are the criteria - size, equipment, combat efficiency?

                  5) About re-equipment and the T-50 - already said without me
                  There is a resource Donenounas, where you can find new huge enterprises like Tobolsk Polymer and new small farms or kindergartens in the outback
                  The T 50 is not in the troops, and the products of the enterprises from the Sdelanunas website are only 20 percent intended for the Russian market, moreover, they are derived from the oil industry.
                  Regarding the enterprises destroyed over the past 12 years, there is an article on VO.

                  I repeat once again, in our country there are a lot of unresolved, and sometimes unsolvable problems, but if you discuss problems, you need to do it constructively
                  What could be more constructive than requiring the Government to comply with the Constitution?

                  or harsh totalitarian methods, albeit forced (USSR, post-war China)
                  It was in the early USSR were totalitarian methods ?! belay Can I talk about this in more detail? laughing

                  We still have a lot to do, and nothing in this world appears in accordance with our "wishes".
                  Just in accordance with the Wishlist and appears - there would be no Wishlist - would not appear.

                  And now the last question - what is being done from what you think should be done, and what should be the result of these cases?
                  1. bolonenkov
                    bolonenkov 3 November 2013 13: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    I do not see a conceptual difference between the end of '99 and the current time, but I see a progressing neoliberal tendency.

                    Well, you don’t see, you don’t see, you can refuse a salary and receive it once every six months, for example.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    Regarding PPP GDP: therefore, the question arises - what good did you see in rising prices?

                    PPP GDP growth is determined by a bunch of factors; price growth is one of them, but far from the main one
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    A full-time monthly nutrition for a pensioner costs 8: 10 - food and rent = no longer remains for medicines.

                    In the 90s, pensions for all of the above were enough in excess. I didn’t write that pensions in the Russian Federation are high and they’ll be enough for everything, the Russian Federation is one of the few countries where the state pays pensions to everyone, even if they don’t work.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    28000 = 43% of PPP GDP per capita - 40% of PPP GDP per capita = minimum wage of Canada, France and Germany (minimum wage in Russia = 8% of PPP GDP for d / n, in the 10th year it was 12%) - what to rejoice ?

                    Why compare what is with what remains to be done? I do not remember in Canada, Germany and France the collapse of the economy in the 90s. Wait, there will be 20% and 30% and 40%. The fact is that the average salary is not equal to 6, as some bravely claim.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    What are the criteria - size, equipment, combat efficiency?

                    You can search, but I think, the main parameters from the 90s, where we were at 45m or 40m did not change much, respectively, we do not mess up in combat efficiency and equipment and in numbers, but rather develop
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    T 50 is not in the troops, and the products of enterprises from the Sdelanunas website are only 20 percent intended for the Russian market ...

                    This is especially true of kindergartens, food factories, medicines, weapons, pipes, building materials, polymers and roads.
                    For example, Tobolsk-Polymer will become the largest in Russia and will enter the top three global polypropylene production. With the introduction of this capacity, the Russian Federation will stop the purchase of polypropylene for import.
                    Your attitude to the resource does not change the facts presented there.
                    The fact that we ourselves built such an aircraft, of course, speaks of the death of Russian science.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    What could be more constructive than requiring the Government to comply with the Constitution?

                    what was actually violated? If you are talking about a third term, then I advise you to look first at the text of the corresponding chapter in the Constitution, and then at Merkel.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    Was it totalitarian methods in the early USSR?! ...

                    The early USSR was a backward country with a bunch of internal problems, just remember the famine of the 20-30s, and I wrote about development.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    Just in accordance with the Wishlist ...

                    I don’t remember that the word "WANT" in my pocket would appear money, for this we also have to work, first of all on ourselves
                    1. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 3 November 2013 17: 56
                      +3
                      you can refuse a salary and receive it once every six months - Please bring the actually confirmed percentage of enterprises in which in the 99th salary was paid once every six months - it is comparable with the current situation.

                      PPP GDP growth driven by a bunch of factors - The growth of GDP at parity is due to only 2 factors.
                      GDP growth overtaking price increases indicates economic growth, price growth overtaking GDP growth (our option) in the best case indicates stagnation of production, in the worst - about its subsidence.
                      I did not write that pensions in the Russian Federation are high - Then what is the positivity of the fact?

                      I don’t remember in Canada, Germany and France the collapse of the economy in the 90s - What do the problems of the 90s have to the 13th?
                      In the same crisis Portugal (not a social state), the minimum wage is 32% (as in the USA and Brazil), and in the social state of the Russian Federation - 8% (a decrease of 10% compared to the 33th year)
                      From a comparison with other countries, it can be seen that the percentage of minimum wages in GDP of PPP for d / n varies from 30% in non-social states to 50% in social (Australia, Crisis Cyprus), and that the economy can withstand this, while that the minimum wage in the designated countries is not taxed.
                      It turns out that the Russian Federation is a de facto neoliberal state, which violates the 7th, 2nd, 17th and 18th centuries. Constitution.

                      The fact is that the average salary is not equal to 6, as some bravely claim - Who exactly?

                      You can search, but I think that the basic parameters have not changed much since the 90s, so we don’t mess up in terms of combat efficiency and equipment and number - I can search, but it is understood that you know, and do not assume what you are talking about.
                      It’s difficult to talk about the equipment of the army (there are many promises, but in reality it’s not clear for the time being), but in terms of numbers and combat readiness we definitely get along.

                      This is especially true of kindergartens, food factories, medicines, weapons, pipes, building materials, polymers and roads - Single successes are not a trend, and the destruction of enterprises in the amount of 2 times more than their creation is.
                      The self-sufficiency of the Russian Federation is 20%, and a turning point in the situation is not visible.

                      For example, Tobolsk-Polymer will become ... will enter ... - When it becomes and enters, then this will be a positive fact.

                      The fact that we ourselves built such an aircraft, of course, speaks of the death of Russian science - It only says that the Soviet backlog was enormous, and modern Russian science takes advantage of this.

                      what was actually violated? If you are talking about a third term, then I advise you to look first at the text of the corresponding chapter in the Constitution, and then at Merkel - 1 What does Merkel have to do with the Russian Federation?
                      2 In addition to the letter, there is a spirit of law.
                      3 12-ФЗ dated 12.02.01 and 166-ФЗ dated 15.12.01 contradict Art. nineteen.
                      The established minimum wage is contrary to Art. 133 TC, as well as Art. 2, 7, 15, 17 and 18 of the Constitution - this is an example, 2/3 are violated.

                      The early USSR was a backward country with a bunch of internal problems, just remember the famine of the 20-30s, and I wrote about development - The early USSR was a developing state, solving problems that ripened in the Republic of Ingushetia, and you wrote about totalitarianism.

                      I don’t remember that the word "WANT" in my pocket would appear money, for this we also have to work, first of all on ourselves - The hotel doesn’t appear to get money - the ass will not get up from the couch.

                      PS I never received an answer - what is being done and what should be the result?
                      1. bolonenkov
                        bolonenkov 3 November 2013 18: 49
                        0
                        I will respond to your comments when you stop juggling theses.
                        1) I wrote about the fact that the standard of living in 99 and 2013 is very different, you write that you did not notice, and now ask for the percentage of enterprises with a delay in salaries ... So is it different or not? How many citizens of the Russian Federation live below the poverty line in Russia 99goda and Russia 2013?

                        and so you have with all the points

                        2) Raising GDP from about 45th place to 5th in the world - is not a positive change?
                        3) Pensions. The figure of 10400 rubles indicates that since 2000 we have managed to narrow the gap in the amount of pensions between us and the West from monstrous 50 times to quite decent 2-4 times.
                        http://www.vestifinance.ru/articles/24190
                        Is this not a positive fact?
                        4) Salaries. The figure of 28 rubles indicates that since 000 in Russia there has been a rapid and continuous increase in the nominal incomes of the population. The average per capita income in 2000 compared with 2012 increased 2000 times.
                        http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b13_02/IssWWW.exe/stg/d010/4-02.doc
                        5) The army. Can you compare defense spending in the 90s and now, is this not a positive result?

                        6) Re-equipment. Much has been written about this and this resource. Read the state defense order

                        7) Constitution. What is the contradiction, and where is the spirit of the law spelled out and does it have legal force?

                        8) Is there an example of a country? We dealt with the USSR, for 13 years nikher did not work, even died from hunger

                        9)
                        Quote: Yarosvet
                        There is no wish to get money - the ass will not get up from the couch.

                        Well, actually no one argues with this, but it’s not good to say that in Russia the salaries are low, but I want more, adequate engineers get really good, from 100 thousand, or, for example. submariners.

                        10) You will get the answer by reading and storing the first 9 points
                      2. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 3 November 2013 19: 35
                        +5
                        First, let's move on to "YOU" - don't be shy either.
                        Quote: bolonenkov
                        I will answer when you stop distorting theses
                        The thesis - and the thesis to prove it - what is the distortion?
                        1) I wrote about the fact that the standard of living in 99 and 2013 is very different
                        You wrote about the increase in the purchasing power of the population, but it is strikingly different only in nominal terms.
                        How many citizens of the Russian Federation live below the poverty line in Russia 99goda and Russia 2013?
                        Let's see (data on the 99th you are looking for)
                        And so - according to Rosstat, 13% of the population lives in b / w (we transfer these numbers to the 13th)
                        The cost of living for the able-bodied population in the Russian Federation is 7633 tr, while at the same time, a full cost of an average of 10 tr is worth, and a minimum wage of 5205 tr Well? (remember about 133 shopping mall?)
                        Raising GDP from about 45th place to 5th in the world - is not a positive change?
                        Not to eat, since taking a place depends not only on elevating you, but also on lowering your competitors.
                        over 12 years, PPP GDP has grown by a factor of 8, and the nominal GDP by 41.6: the difference is real inflation (count as a percentage - XNUMX on average)
                        At the same time, the growth of tariffs, which are the locomotive of inflation - 1500% of housing and communal services and 1000% of electricity - will you make conclusions yourself, or explain it again?
                        since 2000, we have managed to narrow the gap in the amount of pensions between us and the West from monstrous 50 times to quite decent 2-4 times
                        What does it give - do you take inflation into account? You just said that the cost of living in the Russian Federation is comparable to the European one, and pensions are 2-4 times lower.
                        4) Salaries. The figure is 28 rubles
                        Do not measure the average pace - take a minimum.
                        since 2000 in Russia there has been a rapid increase in nominal incomes of the population
                        Namely nominal, not real - do you feel the difference?
                        Per capita income
                        Below I will give the table of Rosstat
                        compare defense spending in the 90s and now
                        Compare Prices
                        Much has been written about this and this resource.
                        In the future tense
                        Constitution. What is the contradiction
                        No contradiction - crime
                        where is the spirit of the law spelled out
                        I explain: formally (in accordance with the letter) - neither labeled, nor EBN, nor red, nor stools - niuinovaty anything (fershtein?)
                        even starving to death
                        Can you give more details?
                        adequate engineers get
                        Your adequate engineers (like the other very adequate guys) do not shake me: a constitutional minimum will be ensured - there will be no complaints (and for one s / p s / n up to 60 tr a moment will increase)

                        It’s strange that you don’t broadcast about the great Pu who abolished the PSA and tried to nationalize Ts laughing
                      3. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 3 November 2013 19: 47
                        -1
                        -------------------------------------------------- ---
                      4. bolonenkov
                        bolonenkov 3 November 2013 21: 03
                        +2
                        Great, now the same for 99mu
                    2. bolonenkov
                      bolonenkov 3 November 2013 20: 58
                      +3
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      You wrote about the increase in the purchasing power of the population, but it is strikingly different only in nominal terms.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Namely nominal, not real - do you feel the difference?


                      Since the beginning of the millennium, there has not been a single year when the rise in prices for consumer goods would outstrip the rise in wages. Since 2000, the real incomes of Russians in each subsequent year are higher than in the previous one (growth rate of more than 100%). http://cbsd.gks.ru/ - build a chart yourself or look at http://ruxpert.ru/Salaries_in_Russia

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Let's see (data on the 99th you are looking for)

                      28,4% or 42 million people, now 11%
                      http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/urov/urov_51g.htm

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Not to eat, since taking a place depends not only on elevating you, but also on lowering your competitors.
                      over 12 years, PPP GDP has grown by a factor of 8, and the nominal by XNUMX: the difference is real inflation

                      You can count in prices of a certain year, for example 2008, thus inflation is leveled out as a parameter.
                      http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/vvp/tab2a.xls

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      What does it give - do you take inflation into account? You just said that the cost of living in the Russian Federation is comparable to the European one, and pensions are 2-4 times lower.

                      About the cost of living in Europe and we have not written.
                      From 2000 to 2012, average pensions in dollar terms increased more than tenfold, taking into account inflation (REAL GROWTH) - more than five times. If in 1999 the average pension was miserable 449 rubles, then for 2013 the average pension is 10 rubles. But we still have much to strive for.

                      Do not measure the average pace - take a minimum.

                      What for? You can count on deciles, it will be 25.

                      Compare prices (for defense)

                      Well, compare, and you will be happy. 140,8 billion in 99m, and 3 in 078 - 2012 times, taking into account inflation by 22 times.

                      In the future tense (about rearmament)

                      Much has already been implemented, Moscow was not immediately built.

                      No contradiction - crime

                      Where, without numbers, in words, write!

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      formally (in accordance with the letter) -... nothing nuinovaty (ferstein?)

                      What are the claims then?

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Can you give more details? (About the famine in the USSR)

                      Learn the history of your country
                      Hunger in the Volga region (1921-1922)
                      Famine in the USSR (1932-1933)
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Your adequate engineers do not shake me

                      You never know, they don’t shake you, but fact is a fact

                      In my comments I did not mention a single politician, except for the drunk, only figures and facts.
                    3. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 3 November 2013 22: 13
                      +2
                      Since 2000, the real incomes of Russians in each subsequent year are higher than in the previous one (growth rate of more than 100%) - Well done - the growth of OFFICIAL AVERAGE s / n over 12 years exceeded inflation by 100% - let’s shout cheers, send 2/3 of the population - bravo good

                      28,4% or 42 million people, now 11% - Well done, now compare the cost of living by name then and now.
                      Do you need to eat now how much?

                      You can calculate the prices for a certain year, for example 2008, so inflation is leveled out as a parameter - Inflation is leveled only when there is adequate indexation (since 2005, real inflation in the Russian Federation has outstripped indexation)

                      About the cost of living in Europe and we did not write - That is, modestly silent.

                      If in 1999 the average pension was miserable 449 rubles, then for 2013 the average pension is 10 rubles - Well done, but it didn’t work: for the 99th, you give the average pensions in the country (the data from the left sites), and for the 13th you also give the average pensions, but in Moscow laughing

                      You can count on deciles, it will be 25 - This is true, BUT: cf. s / n at the level of minimum wage in liberal Mr. Wah? And it is in the SOCIAL Constitution of the state-ve ???.

                      2012 - 22 times, taking into account inflation 10 times - counted the stools? Meanwhile, the volume of the corruption market already in the 10th year was equal to the budget - about which the medveputes publicly reported.

                      Much has already been realized, Moscow was not built right away - I’m not interested in how it was built - I’m interested in the conformity of the actions of the Government with the current constitution.
                      What is "much" implemented - specifically?

                      Where, without numbers, in words - I wrote those above - I tried to read the Basic Law, or does patriotism in today's youth consist in ignorance of the Constitution?

                      What are the claims then - Do the above-described concepts "law" and "justice" have any meaning for you?

                      Hunger in the Volga region (1921-1922)
                      Famine in the USSR (1932-1933)
                      - You are brilliant laughing Now get into the wiki again and find out how many hungry years there were from 1900 to 1917.

                      but fact is fact - Yes, which once again confirms my idea of ​​a neoliberal state. Just see what the problem is - we have a state social (go to the dictionary, see the meaning)

                      only figures and facts - For now, only speculation.
                      But with such enthusiasm, logic and statistics (which for the time being there) ... laughing

                      PS I still do not see the answer to the question asked above.
                    4. bolonenkov
                      bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 08
                      +1
                      Yaroslav, you distort everything again. Realizing that you are farting in a puddle, you are trying to reduce everything to emotions.
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Well done - the growth of OFFICIAL AVERAGE s / n over 12 years exceeded inflation by 100% - let’s shout cheers, send us 2/3 of the population - bravo

                      And here it is? How did you count? Do not fart in a puddle.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Well done, now compare the cost of living by name then and now.
                      Do you need to eat now how much?


                      The cost of living then and now is also different, exactly like the minimum wage. Again farting into a puddle.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      Inflation is leveled only when there is adequate indexation (since 2005, real inflation in the Russian Federation has outstripped indexation)

                      Learn the materiel. Stop tormenting the puddle.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      This is true, BUT: cf s / n at the level of minimal in liberal g-wah? And is it in the SOCIAL constitutional state ??

                      The middle one is the average one who works and is friends with the head, he gets more, who does not want, less, to distribute flyers, and it turns out 10 000 minimum. Do not fart in a puddle with your calculations.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      counted stools? Meanwhile, the volume of the corruption market already in the 10th year was equal to the budget - about which the medveputes publicly reported.

                      So you want to say that funding has not radically increased? You are really a stubborn all-enforcer, sorry for being rude.


                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      I wrote those above - I tried to read the basic law, or does patriotism in today's youth consist in ignorance of the Constitution?

                      You haven’t written anything worthwhile, you wrote about a spirit that does not exist as a be.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      You are a genius. Now get back into the wiki and find out how many hungry years were from 1900 to 1917.

                      You are brilliant, not knowing the history of your country, and then trying to get out of this. I repeat, is there an example of a country in history that has risen on its own for 13 years after the most severe economic devastation (like after the war)? we sorted out with the USSR, for 25 years it did not work out.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      What is "much" implemented - specifically?

                      A resource to help you, silt was made with us, the army and navy section, everything is in the past tense. vskidku, radar, SAM, ICBM, Borey, Su-30,35, Ka-52, Mi-28 ... do not fart in a puddle.

                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      PS I still do not see the answer to the question asked above.


                      Quote: bolonenkov
                      You will get the answer by reading and storing the first 9 points


                      The discussion was closed.
                    5. Yarosvet
                      Yarosvet 4 November 2013 16: 23
                      -1
                      Quote: bolonenkov
                      And here it is? How did you count? Do not fart in a puddle
                      Get out of the puddle - it won’t hit you.
                      Over 12 years, nominal GDP growth of 800%, and nominal per capita income of 900%.

                      The cost of living then and now is also different, exactly like the minimum wage. Again farting in a puddle
                      Get out of the puddle and compare the consumer. basket by items.

                      Teach materiel
                      And this is written by a pretzel, claiming that many factors influence PPP GDP growth ... mdya ...

                      The middle one is the average one who works and makes friends with the head, he gets more, who doesn’t want, less, to distribute flyers and it turns out 10 000 minimum
                      Here he is a young Zaputin - he wanted to put on the Constitution and sanity, saying that the cost of living should provide an adequate standard of living in accordance with modern realities.

                      So you want to say that funding has not radically increased?
                      I say that it is important not the nominal increase in financing, but the result achieved by this increase - where is it?

                      You didn’t write anything worthwhile, you wrote about a spirit that, as it doesn’t exist
                      That is, laws are written like BE without purpose - from the bulldozer? laughing

                      I repeat, is there an example of a country in history that has risen on its own for 13 years after the most severe economic devastation (like after the war)? with the USSR we figured out, for 25 years it did not work
                      Just the USSR - both after the civil and after the Patriotic war, and the situation was much worse then, the situation in the 90s.

                      A resource to help you, silt was made with us, the army and navy section, everything is in the past tense. offhand, radar, SAM, ICBM, Borey, Su-30,35, Ka-52, Mi-28
                      Units - where are the conceptual changes?

                      Quote: bolonenkov
                      You will get the answer by reading and storing the first 9 points
                      This is called chatter.
                    6. plebs
                      plebs 5 November 2013 02: 29
                      0
                      The middle one is the average one who works and is friends with the head, he gets more, who does not want, less, to distribute flyers, and it turns out 10 000 minimum. Do not fart in a puddle with your calculations. Sorry, I didn’t want to interfere in your dispute, but I have to work in Siberia on a railway fitter, I earn 11 thousand rubles in the summer.
    2. Mitek
      Mitek 4 November 2013 10: 47
      +4
      Quote: bolonenkov
      You only confirm my words about the all-composers and the transformation of the resource (especially commentators, but also some authors too) into another Echo and others
      If you do not see the difference between the 90s and the current time.
      Offhand
      1) Russia - the 5th economy in the world, although it was in the top ten
      2) The average pension is 10 rubles
      3) the average salary is 28, can be calculated by deciles, then it will turn out 000
      4) The Russian army was in 40th place, now in second
      5) About re-equipment and the T-50 - already said without me
      There is a resource, Madeownas, where you can find new huge enterprises like Tobolsk Polymer and new small farms or kindergartens in the outback.

      I repeat once again, in our country there are a lot of unsolved and sometimes unsolvable problems, but if we discuss problems, then it should be done constructively, and not according to the principle "who poured more crap, that has more pluses in the rating."

      In history there were no examples of countries that, for 13 years, managed to rise from complete devastation without the help of third forces (for example Germany, Japan) or harsh totalitarian methods, although forced (USSR, post-war China).
      We still have a lot to do, and nothing in this world appears in accordance with our "wishes".

      You're right, but figure out how much could be done if everyone was just doing their job? If the cops do not allow bureaucrats to steal, if smart, competent people begin to lead. In no case do I belittle the role of GDP and THANKS to him for a lot, but the majority of his team. Lavrov, Shoigu, perhaps, are all adequate comrades, but fucking ... like a Minister of Education and an undead above the roof. About the State Duma finally a separate song ..
      1. bolonenkov
        bolonenkov 4 November 2013 13: 17
        +1
        Politics is such a dirty business that in the Internet discussions I still try to do without mentioning any political figures or associations, with the possible exception of two outright stubborn Gorbachev and EBN.

        As for the problems, I did not deny them and I will never, for example, the defense service business needs to be brought to its logical conclusion, that is, the maximum time frame for all participants, including the former. Minister of Defense, and a lot of scams at the highest and middle levels, such as the brainchild of DAM Skolkovo.

        Quote: Mitek
        But estimate how much could be done if everyone just does their job?


        The main word is EVERYTHING, people don’t be rude to each other, they observe traffic rules, they don’t drink, they don’t smoke, they raise children, but they don’t give them to the street, they pay all taxes, fines and so on.

        Theft of chewing gum from the store and the theft of budget money are the fruits of one tree, it's just that the scales are different, and sometimes the vices of officials come from the vices of the society in which they grew up. All liberals of the 90s came from the USSR, were brought up, studied in Soviet schools, pioneer camps and families, but as soon as we were faced with such a temptation as power and money, they broke, we are still reaping the fruits.

        And now the young generation is growing, which is sometimes initially geared to throwing their country to grandmothers, thank God not all, but there are a lot of them, usually they are all-enforcers and vocalists at the same time.

        In Russia there were even worse times, the Time of Troubles, two patriotic wars, two civil wars, but we always came out of these ordeals stronger, smarter and more united, and all because we loved our Fatherland not for money and comfort, but for the fact that it OUR, that this is the land of our great-grandfathers, fathers and future grandchildren, and the government and the Motherland are different things, you can hate the president, but for your country to break anyone's throat. But now, unfortunately, the people boldly call their country a fucking R * shkoy, and call for the separation of the Caucasus, and of course they are not satisfied with the leadership, and rejoice at all the failures like "the rocket fell", "the torch went out"

        Sorry for the confusion, who understands, he will understand who is not, that is not given.
  • Normal
    Normal 2 November 2013 17: 35
    23
    Quote: bolonenkov
    Why such an awesome resource, like topvar, has become completely clogged with all-embracers, both authors of articles and commentators.

    Yes indeed! We need more optimism and constructivism. I will try to make my modest contribution:
    Russia is heading for a brighter future! We have all preserved, developed and multiplied! Long live the Caucasus! Greetings to migrants! Islam is the religion of peace and humanity! And of course: SLAVAPUTINOUR! Hooray !! URA-ah-ah-ah!
    It turned out great! Now it's not scary to die ...
    1. tanit
      tanit 3 November 2013 07: 16
      0
      Did you personally save anything? Multiplied?
      1. Normal
        Normal 3 November 2013 09: 07
        +7
        Quote: tanit
        Did you personally save anything? Multiplied?

        And personally, I wrote more than once that I created, saved (until the all-great came to power) and multiplied. If there is a desire - look in the comments.
        I can tell you that my avatar depicts the Silver Medal of VDNKh, which I earned at the Znamya Truda plant, which the current government has passed all over to polymers. And I received this medal for an industrial unit whose products are still used by a huge number of people throughout the former Union.
        I multiplied my children, I have three. It would be more, but there is no work and confidence in the future, thanks to Slavputin having been completely and without alternative.

        And now show the city and the world your merits, achievements and accomplishments for the good of .... Russia
        1. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 3 November 2013 11: 44
          -2
          As I understand it, you made your merits in the USSR, and then maybe you went to the square and voted for Yeltsin twice ... I’m 23, and I have big complaints about scoops that allowed a handful of people to break up the great Union of Peoples, and now they’re yelling about the treacherous power, and the fact that at one time Muscovites and others like them sold the country for jeans and McDonald's is for some reason silent.

          Now they are ready to call for revolution, and when Gorbachev was ruining the country, and then the Jewish oligarchs privatized under the roof of the elected Yeltsin, everyone lived well, and no one thought about the rallies and marches against the then current government, only now that salaries are rising, pensions are not delayed , factories open, the army rearmament of the scoops began to play nostalgia about the old days, which they themselves had pissed off, but have every right to cite them as an example to the current generation.

          Sorry for the confusion, who agrees with me, he will understand, who does not, at least explain to him, he has one answer "Surkov's propaganda", "sent Cossack", "Nashist", "85 rubles" and other stereotyped heresy
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 3 November 2013 12: 40
            +3
            You look what conscious youth we have! Well done, I respect! (Without irony). And you say prosralipolymers
          2. tracer
            tracer 3 November 2013 17: 48
            +2
            It's nice to realize that there are still youths, and that youth is not stupid. You can’t shut her mouth with Maxdonalds, you can’t buy her jeans .... Maybe only for the money ...? winked In fact, little has changed. In the union there was a lack of goods, now there is a lack of money .. From the change of places of terms, the sum, as you know, practically does not change. But the fact that many gray-haired but still hot heads are screaming ... Medvedputs, here they are, all to the barricades .. This immediately reminds me of the beginning of the 90s. When the same, not yet gray-haired heads shouted the same thing ... No "revolutions" to revive the country, well, it will not work. And Russia has not only itself but the Slavic union will have to revive.
          3. Normal
            Normal 3 November 2013 17: 55
            10
            Quote: bolonenkov
            As I understand it, you made your merits in the USSR,

            You are very quick-witted. lol
            Quote: bolonenkov
            and then maybe they went to the square and voted for Yeltsin twice ..

            Well, you, "two times", was enough and one, and for whom it was necessary to vote? For Zhirinovsky, for Makashov or Zyuganov?
            Quote: bolonenkov
            I 23

            A colossal achievement! Unprecedented merit! You can be proud.
            Quote: bolonenkov
            and I have big complaints about scoops

            .................................................. ..
            Quote: bolonenkov
            who allowed a handful of people to ruin the great Union of Peoples, and now they are yelling about the treacherous power, and the fact that Muscovites and others like them sold the country for jeans and McDonald's for some reason is silent.

            I can make you happy; you will still have the opportunity to slander Russia, give it to Caucasians and Asians, and wave the handkerchief to the current government when it rolls over to its curators. And all this for computers, gadgets and the ability not to work but to sit out in the office chasing the smurfs on the monitor screen.
            Quote: bolonenkov
            Now they are ready to call for revolution, and when Gorbachev was ruining the country, and then the Jewish oligarchs privatized under the roof of the elected Yeltsin, everyone lived well, and no one thought about the rallies and marches against the then current government, only now that salaries are rising, pensions are not delayed , factories open, the army rearmament of the scoops began to play nostalgia about the old days, which they themselves had pissed off, but have every right to cite them as an example to the current generation.

            What are you talking about? how can you evaluate what you have not seen if you are not able to evaluate what is before your eyes? Current generation! Who are you and what are you? What have you done, apart from praising the heir and successor of Yeltsin? You are at the lowest stage of development, keep quiet and listen, keep quiet and listen as Professor Preobrazhensky said.
            Quote: bolonenkov
            he has one answer "Surkov's propaganda", "sent Cossack", "Nashist", "85 rubles" and other stereotyped heresy

            We will do without heresy. Just a very young, very self-confident and very stupid person.
            Youth is a wonderful time. But she has a property that compensates for all her stupidity and maximalism; she passes very quickly.
            1. bolonenkov
              bolonenkov 3 November 2013 18: 59
              -1
              You so tactfully started that you forgot the most important jamb to indicate
              Quote: bolonenkov
              and then maybe they went to the square


              there you actually sold the country, now gray-haired, and then young, and youth is a great time!

              Quote: Normal
              I can make you happy; you will still have the opportunity to shag Russia

              It is only for you and us to learn the possibilities of a country to scour, an exchange of experience, so to speak.


              Quote: Normal
              how can you evaluate what you did not see if you are not able to evaluate what is before your eyes


              Here is the collapse of the country into a bunch of states, poverty, poverty and humiliation, and I have already appreciated all the problems that young people are facing now, and I even know who to thank. Thanks you.
              Quote: Normal
              What have you done, apart from praising the heir and successor of Yeltsin?

              At least I study and work, and all my achievements are ahead, by the way, my salary is your pension, so I do a lot for you specifically.
              Moreover, in none of my posts did I mention a single politician, only one drunkard of the popular and put on an armored personnel carrier!
            2. Normal
              Normal 3 November 2013 22: 27
              +5
              Quote: bolonenkov
              You so tactfully started that you forgot the most important jamb to indicate
              Quote: bolonenkov
              and then maybe they went to the square

              Well, of course they did, but what about? November 7th, May 1st and 9th. And the square is Red. And they didn’t just walk around, but all night they brought equipment and carts with transporters to Leningradsky Prospekt. Is it a jamb? I don’t think so.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              That collapse of the country into a bunch of states

              A young man, in order to accuse us of the collapse of the country, you need to know and understand that life. I can still accept such accusations from the older generation, from those who fought, from those who rebuilt the country and launched Gagarin into space. From those who built cities and discovered mineral deposits, feeding mosquitoes and gnats in taiga swamps. But not from you. Moreover, we are scoops for you.
              I am very sorry that your parents could not explain to you how and what they lived with. I also can not, because for this you need to write a book and not a comment. But I will try to give at least an idea in a very, very general way.
              What do you do when you need something? Correctly go to the store and ... BUY. Do you know, young man, what a three-four-hour queue is? No, not for vodka. And behind everything, anything; for sausage and claws, for shoes and meat, for jeans (yes, for the very jeans for which we exchanged a great power and which you now do not perceive because it is not a problem) and shampoo, for garlic and maher yarn (although you know what is it?) For everything! And three - four hours in line is not the limit. The queue for furniture, a refrigerator or a car could last for YEARS! Do you know such a thing as a deficit? You, buying everything without any effort, do not even know that at one time the word "buy" became obsolete and was not used in the spoken language. Instead, there was the word GET OUT.
              You are accusing us of buying McDonald's (I never understood, I preferred dumplings) and jeans have no idea that my future wife went out with me in a new ... there’s not a fur coat, IN A WALLPAD (this for general development). At the same time, we fed half the world of pseudo-socialist states, 13 union republics, the standard of living in most of which exceeded that in Russia and worked every day for 10-12 hours in production and in agriculture (tales about an 8-hour working day are for propaganda)
              And you tell me about poverty, humiliation and the problems of modern youth ... Don’t tell me please.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              At least I study and work,

              Do you learn by torch or candlelight? Even the elemental electricity in your home was provided by scoops.
              Do you work in production?
              Quote: bolonenkov
              By the way, my salary is your pension, so I’m doing a lot for you specifically.

              Do not flatter yourself, the pension fund is safely stolen. You at least earn a pension for a start, you are our benefactor.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              Moreover, in no post did I mention a single political figure,

              Well, for this you need to at least know them.
            3. bolonenkov
              bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 21
              0
              Quote: Normal
              Well, of course they did, but what about? November 7th, May 1st and 9th.

              You all understand perfectly

              Quote: Normal
              A young man, in order to accuse us of the collapse of the country, you need to know and understand that life.

              And after that it became much better, buy what you want !!
              Quote: Normal
              I can still accept such accusations from the older generation, from those who fought, from those who rebuilt the country and launched Gagarin into space. From those who built cities and discovered mineral deposits, feeding mosquitoes and gnats in taiga swamps. But not from you. Moreover, we are scoops for you.

              It’s like, we pissed off the country, but not for you the goldfinch to judge us.

              Quote: Normal
              and shampoo, for garlic and maher yarn (even though you know what it is?)

              Well, actually this is of course the real reason for breaking the state, I say, they sold the country for jeans and McDonald's, in your case, for garlic and shampoo. The words of reform and collapse are the same in meaning ??

              Quote: Normal
              And you tell me about poverty, humiliation and the problems of modern youth ... Don’t tell me please.


              I already thanked you for this.

              Quote: Normal
              Do you learn by torch or candlelight? Even the elemental electricity in your home was provided by scoops.
              Do you work in production?

              It was electric in the 90s, but that didn’t stop you from ruining this state of scoops. I learn languages.

              Quote: Normal
              Do not flatter yourself, the pension fund is safely stolen. You at least earn a pension for a start, you are our benefactor.

              Not plundered, but about after the collapse of the country by people in support of whom half of Moscow went out on the road, by the way, they were all from the Communist Party in one way or another, and the current pensioners are paying pensions to working pensioners, as it was in the USSR.

              Quote: Normal
              Well, for this you need to at least know them.

              Well Duc, the brave Soviet leaders, I know, Gorbachev and EBN, only both morons, albeit popular and popularly elected.
            4. Normal
              Normal 4 November 2013 10: 23
              +1
              Quote: bolonenkov
              You all understand perfectly

              I - yes, but you - do not understand anything, but do not want to understand.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              It’s like, we pissed off the country, but not for you the goldfinch to judge us.

              Exactly! Not for you to judge. You still, by and large, have not seen anything in your life and haven’t done anything, you undertake to judge those thanks to whom you have everything you have.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              Electric and in the 90s it was

              Really? I didn’t know belay And who, in your opinion, built power plants, laid power lines, made equipment? I'll tell you a secret - scoops! Moreover, many of them did not have this same electricity until the 60s of the last century. In any case, constantly and around the clock.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              however, this did not stop you from ruining this state of scoops. I learn languages.

              You were not there in that state, and you cannot and do not want to know how, who, and why it collapsed.
              The languages ​​you learn ... Commendable! Did you serve in the army? Did you work at a state farm, at a construction site, at a factory? No? Well, keep your mouth shut so you don’t look indecent.
              Quote: bolonenkov
              Not plundered, but about after the collapse of the country by people in support of whom half of Moscow went out on the road, by the way, they were all from the Communist Party in one way or another, and the current pensioners are paying pensions to working pensioners, as it was in the USSR.

              Here is all your awareness - cliches, stupidity, narcissism, ignorance, unreasonable self-confidence and hatred of Moscow. Usually, familiar and boring.
            5. Yuri Y.
              Yuri Y. 4 November 2013 12: 30
              +3
              Admittedly, we wanted changes, we simply did not realize that traitors were controlling us, we thought it would be something like the Chinese version. Well, as for bolonenkov, no one will now say how he would vote then, the rest is speculation.
            6. bolonenkov
              bolonenkov 4 November 2013 13: 30
              -1
              You are all trying to play the card "you weren't there", but I was not there, but even elementary logic is enough to understand that if something hurts you, then it should be treated, and not cut off all the limbs.

              If you were not satisfied with the standard of living, so why did you smash the great country to hell, which you cite as an example of young people, they say, "but this was not the case during the Soviet era"

              Do you find nothing in common between the current calls for "power to the people" and calls from different epochs of our history, such as the slogans of the 1917 revolution "LONG IMPERIALISM", "ALL POWER TO THE SOVIETS", or the late 80s-early 90s "FOR PERESTROIKA"? Don't you think that you, as a people, want to be fucked in the brain area again?
    2. volkodav
      volkodav 7 November 2013 13: 58
      -1
      Quote: Normal
      What are you talking about? how can you evaluate what you have not seen if you are not able to evaluate what is before your eyes? Current generation! Who are you and what are you? What have you done, apart from praising the heir and successor of Yeltsin? You are at the lowest stage of development, keep quiet and listen, keep quiet and listen as Professor Preobrazhensky said.

      Yes, you need to be silent and listen to you, to generations who were from 90 to 20 in the early 60s, thank you for selling the country for a pittance, for letting humiliate the Russians in all Union republics, for the collapse of the army and navy, You left us a good inheritance. I’m 29, I have three sons, and I don’t want to leave them what the generation of my father and mother left for us, but I want them to live in a strong and developed country, so I work every day and tell them that Russian sounds proudly, and the Caucasus is not power, he himself checked
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Stas
    Stas 2 November 2013 18: 35
    20
    bolonenkov
    Why such an awesome resource, like topvar, has become completely clogged with all-embracers, both authors of articles and commentators.

    So you travel a little around the country, see how people live, and who survives corny, look at salaries, pensions, look at the Far East, Siberia, the North and only then draw conclusions. In many towns and cities, uninvited guests from Central Asia are already about a quarter, and sometimes more. The problems in the country are big and they need to be opened and poked in the head of the powerful temporary workers there. This is my country, I live here, I am not going to dump over the hill like Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin's daughter and other "patriots" after which at least the grass does not grow. Therefore, we must defend our country and our rights, and if necessary, then we will stand up for rallies. There is no need to hide your head in the sand ...
    1. bolonenkov
      bolonenkov 3 November 2013 13: 20
      0
      I live in Ufa, and we have exactly the same number of people from Central Asia as everywhere else, with the possible exception of Moscow and St. Petersburg.
      The average salary in the Russian Federation is 28 rubles, in deciles 000, real growth compared to 25 times.

      I also traveled around the country, everywhere, without exception, in a city or village in the house of a really working person who does not drink, does not smoke, who is a real believer (Orthodox or Muslim), there is a car, and savings, and three children, and the neighbors only have a house, a barn and a bunch of claims to the "power", although the starting positions are the same
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 3 November 2013 13: 27
        +2
        Is it such thoughts at the age of 23?
        1. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 3 November 2013 13: 43
          -1
          Here, many, and perhaps the majority, deeply give a damn about anyone's thoughts, if there are no words about "corrupt government", "decaying Russia", "Caucasian criminals" and other things, or rather do not give a damn, they are just such irritants of them patterns of the world and reality are thrown with labels "nashist" or "sent Cossack". Moreover, the main argument is "look around", "drive through Russia", "I have a bad guy", "yes, I saw it myself"
        2. Starfish
          Starfish 3 November 2013 14: 17
          +2
          "You will go far."

          interesting in Ufa there are "ours" or "young guard"? here is the guy where you need to turn, and then he will "go far", and here on the topvar it is probably just a hobby to write posts.
          1. bolonenkov
            bolonenkov 3 November 2013 14: 57
            0
            There is another option to learn and work))
            1. Day 11
              Day 11 3 November 2013 15: 02
              +1
              Do you speak from Ufa? Well, well. Everything is already clear
            2. kaktus
              kaktus 3 November 2013 19: 28
              0
              What exactly is clear in Ufa?
          2. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 4 November 2013 19: 44
            0
            I hope the comrade has a healthy, not youthful optimism! +
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS 3 November 2013 16: 01
    +8
    Quote: Stas
    So you bolonenkov travel around the country a bit, see how people live, and who is banal surviving, look at salaries, pensions, look at the Far East, Siberia, the North and only then draw conclusions.


    No No. ... for a twenty-three year old, this is not a feasible job. He won - "The average salary in the Russian Federation is 28 rubles, in deciles 000, a real increase in comparison with the 25s at times."
    ... and real average earnings are too high, and the price increase does not take into account at all.
    A person with such views (if still in power) is trouble for a simple resident of Russia.
    1. bolonenkov
      bolonenkov 3 November 2013 17: 11
      -5
      Very constructive
      My data is taken from Rosstat

      http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b13_02/IssWWW.exe/stg/d010/4-02.doc
      There, by the way, 28500, so I underestimated and not overestimated

      Since the beginning of the millennium, there has not been a single year when the rise in prices for consumer goods would outstrip the rise in wages. Since 2000, the real incomes of Russians in each subsequent year are higher than in the previous one (growth rate of more than 100%).
      http://cbsd.gks.ru/ - составьте график сами илипосмотрите на http://ruxpert.ru/Зарплаты_в_России

      You can check or disagree, but now you have publicly farted into a puddle.
      The trouble is when people themselves do not believe in their country and get pleasure from mocking it and some troubles like "the torch went out"
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 2 November 2013 21: 29
    18
    And I will answer your question ...
    A year or a year and a half ago, this resource was inhabited by PR people from the Nashi and Young Guard, who shouted here (you can't name it differently): "SLAVAPUTIN"
    minus normal people and went to all brains that the country's salaries are at least 50 thousand rubles. pensions of 30-40, and in general we already have socialism ... and now they have diminished in order here and ordinary people have begun to use the resource - they write HOW THEY and their close people live. They write about WHAT CHALLENGE they see around every day, and their Wrath is righteous. And believe me, the DAY WILL come when the whole bastard gets what he deserves. AND THE GREAT COUNTRY WILL RISE!
    1. bolonenkov
      bolonenkov 3 November 2013 13: 22
      0
      Nobody denies the problems, but why exaggerate, lie and juggle the facts?
      in some numbers and facts I have stated everything above
      1. bear
        bear 3 November 2013 23: 19
        +5
        bolonenkov
        Very constructive
        My data is taken from Rosstat

        Nobody denies the problems, but why exaggerate, lie and juggle the facts?
        + you for being a patriot

        If you really would travel around the country. And they talked with people, and did not rely on the Rosstat, you would not write that everything is fine.

        And so, start a family, give birth to children, and then we'll see how your opinion on salaries, education, and medetsin changes. If your parents are certainly not officials, then it will change.
        1. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 25
          0
          I already wrote about this

          I also traveled around the country, everywhere, without exception, in a city or village in the house of a really working person who does not drink, does not smoke, who is a real believer (Orthodox or Muslim), there is a car, and savings, and three children, and the neighbors only have a house, a barn and a bunch of claims to the "power", although the starting positions are the same


          I do not deny the problems, but a lot has been done in 13-15 years, nothing happens at once. There were no examples in the history of states that over 13 years on my own rose to the level of developed countries, were in complete decline and destruction, as after the war.
          1. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 4 November 2013 19: 49
            +1
            At 23, you can see how the country has changed over the past 13-15 years!
      2. Cossack23
        Cossack23 4 November 2013 00: 52
        +2
        you juggle my friend, from your stupidity, but she’s stupidity. Thank God no stupidity is cured. So get you well soon!
        1. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 26
          0
          Do you have something specific? The sources brought you, and you show all your tenacity
        2. O_RUS
          O_RUS 5 November 2013 09: 44
          +2
          Quote: Cossack23
          but she’s stupidity. Thank God not stupidity — heals. So get you well soon!


          +

          Time heals ... grows up. laughing
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 4 November 2013 13: 37
      +1
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      And believe me, the DAY WILL come when the whole bastard gets what he deserves. AND THE GREAT COUNTRY WILL RISE!
      +++++ I shake your hand.
  • Uhe
    Uhe 2 November 2013 22: 16
    13
    We have a move forward in this matter: even more migrants, no visas, all who have entered must be made citizens;)

    Migrants from Central Asia have long been taken to be teachers, doctors, and now they are offering computer services, although not everyone has enough of their own. The goal is simple - a significant reduction in salaries and stuffing pockets of responsible persons. Also movement;)

    But Russians from abroad have not been able to obtain citizenship for years, because Russians, as a people, do not exist at all in the eyes of bureaucrats, Russians, it turns out, have nothing to do with the current state of "Russia" due to their absence, respectively. belonging to the Russian people is not enough to obtain citizenship; on the contrary, it is highly undesirable.

    Do you need such a movement? I don’t. And most Russians, too.
  • tanit
    tanit 3 November 2013 07: 14
    -4
    I suppose that the work of the all-adherents is to sit on the net and crap. Non-contributors work or serve.
  • wasjasibirjac
    wasjasibirjac 2 November 2013 18: 53
    +7
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    if laymen are in the matter of creation, then they succeed in destruction. An accident? Hardly.

    it is easier to destroy than to create. I treat Wahhabism as one sect, like Aum Senrike, only a very large one. in principle, I agree that the preaching of Wahhabism should be equated with a criminal offense and the preachers should be punished accordingly. but at the same time there must also be an ideological counterbalance to the very idea of ​​Wahhabism, whether it is "Russian" Islam or Orthodoxy - no difference. these two religions have long coexisted on the territory of Russia and have become complementary to each other. but now our Orthodox "priests" very often cause rejection by their behavior and we also need to do something about this.
  • Rusich51
    Rusich51 3 November 2013 08: 13
    +8
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Mitek
    but the root alone is at the helm laymen.

    +, but, if they are lay people in the matter of creation, then they succeed in destruction. An accident? Hardly.

    It seems to me that you are right for all 100. There is a systematic destruction of Russia begun under the EBN. The only way out is for the Orthodox to unite with Muslims in the destruction of Wahhabism sown by Amers with their 6 Saudis.
  • bolonenkov
    bolonenkov 3 November 2013 12: 16
    +1
    Especially the destruction can be traced on all the main graphs of the country's development in the period 1993 - 2012, where they all form the letter V with the lowest point in 1998-9.

    And what

    kindergartens open at 20-25 per week
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/42707/

    fertility increases and mortality falls, and the maximum population growth was recorded in Tatarstan, Khabarovsk Territory, Samara, Ulyanovsk and Novosibirsk Regions, St. Petersburg.
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/42769/

    In Moscow most popular boy names in 2012 - Artyom, Alexander, Maxim, Ivan and Mikhail. Girls - Sophia, Maria, Anastasia, Daria and Anna. Moreover, the list of the 50 most popular names of boys of non-Russian names is not at all. The first non-Russian name in the ranking of girls - Amina - is in 38th place.
    http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_malchikov.php
    http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_devochek.php

    and in October 9 enterprises were opened worth more than 1 billion rubles and another dozen 300 million each.
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43000/

    and Sukhoi has already released 33 serial Superjet, contrary to the cries of all-companions that he will not fly, no one will buy, or that this is a stillborn plane
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43066/

    Well, and much more, about which in the 90s you could only dream
    But this is all Surkovskaya propaganda and Nashi, and I’m a mishandled Cossack. It's not like that, it's the other way around, Russia is heading into the abyss !!!!
    1. bolonenkov
      bolonenkov 3 November 2013 14: 14
      -5
      Who put a minus for reporting on the achievements of the Russian Federation ?? Who????? For what???? Speak all the traitors at the top?
      1. Stas
        Stas 3 November 2013 14: 39
        +7
        I put you + for the achievements of the Russian Federation, do not react like that to - and +, you can speak out and not pay any attention to it, you are not thinking out. Similar maximalism in my views and faith in Putin I also had about 5-7 years ago, when I worked at sea and got big money in foreign companies, I also proved to everyone that we would overtake and overtake everyone ... I bought a house, a car, other stuff , traveled around the country, helped his wife establish a small business, in general, a donkey on the shore. They will not give you honest work with your business - this is a fact, you need to give bribes and other things to distribute and bargain for yourself a place in the sun. In confirmation of my words, more than half a million IP-employees closed this year. My wife has also closed. I would like to believe in the best, but I judge the government not by words, but by deeds ... and by the salaries of ordinary people, not officials.
        Time will put everything in its place, I hope it will still be better. Good luck to you Paul.
        1. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 3 November 2013 15: 08
          -4
          I know that small entrepreneurs have problems and do not deny the issue of corruption, but no matter what anyone says, in the Russian Federation, if you wish, you can get a high salary, open your own affairs and enjoy all the other benefits of civilization.

          Quote: Stas
          don't react like that to - and +

          I agree, but here is not an opinion, but facts, and someone does not like them


          Quote: Stas
          more than half a million IP-employees closed this year


          Quote: Stas
          helped his wife establish a small business


          Well then, it’s not for me to tell you what percentage of closed IPs were real, and not just registered, or that worked as a tool for optimizing taxes - after the introduction of annual payments on IP, both options became unprofitable, I repeat, this does not cancel the problem of small business, but it does not serve as evidence of anything terrible.

          Thank you for the plus. Everyone would be able to talk so calmly
    2. O_RUS
      O_RUS 3 November 2013 16: 23
      +3
      Quote: bolonenkov
      In Moscow, the most popular names for boys in 2012 are Artyom, Alexander, Maxim, Ivan and Mikhail. Girls - Sophia, Maria, Anastasia, Daria and Anna.


      It is fantastic? belay

      More than 14 million people live in Moscow, of which about 4 million are Russians.
      Here are common names for newborns:
      Men's: Plato, Ali, Zakhar, Makar, Elisha Damir, Amir, Emil, Magomed;
      Women: Zlata, Amina, Camila, Leila, Yaroslav, Miroslav, Malik, Madina Aigel.
      1. bolonenkov
        bolonenkov 3 November 2013 17: 20
        -5
        You were given links to the registry office of the city of Moscow,

        In Moscow, the most popular names of boys in 2012 are Artyom, Alexander, Maxim, Ivan and Mikhail. Girls - Sophia, Maria, Anastasia, Daria and Anna. Moreover, the list of the 50 most popular names of boys of non-Russian names is not at all. The first non-Russian name in the ranking of girls - Amina - is in 38th place.
        http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_malchikov.php
        http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_devochek.php

        That's about such lies and distortion of facts, I am here and write all this time.
        You, comrade, have already farted twice in a puddle, the first time with salaries and now
        1. O_RUS
          O_RUS 3 November 2013 22: 11
          +3
          Quote: bolonenkov
          You, comrade, already twice ...


          For starters, I'm not your friend. Do not blame me, but people calling white black make me feel disgusted.

          Average earnings wassat ... for example, take Deripaska’s earnings and the cleaners consider their average earnings ... in the end, this cleaning lady will put a garbage can on your head and will be right.

          Lists of popular names ...
          In 2012, in the maternity hospitals of Moscow, the names (I admit that the listed names were written with an error Sorry, not strong in their names) Akhmat, Jamaldin, Ibrahim, Magomed, Umar, Yakub Amanat, Zaynap, Leila confidently led the lists.
          1. bolonenkov
            bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 30
            -4
            You were given data from the registry office about the 50 most popular names of girls and boys, and you prove everything to me the opposite, with words in 2012 in the Maternity Hospital - where did you read it? or did a friend say?
            Quote: bolonenkov
            In Moscow, the most popular names of boys in 2012 are Artyom, Alexander, Maxim, Ivan and Mikhail. Girls - Sophia, Maria, Anastasia, Daria and Anna. Moreover, the list of the 50 most popular names of boys of non-Russian names is not at all. The first non-Russian name in the ranking of girls - Amina - is in 38th place.
            http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_malchikov.php
            http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_devochek.php

            Quote: O_RUS
            . for example, take Deripaska’s earnings and the cleaners consider their average earnings

            Deripaska does not receive a salary - learn the materiel, the second, you can calculate by deciles, it will be 25, do not know what deciles are? learn materiel, but do not fart in a puddle. Moreover, no one denies that there are low salaries, it is everyone's choice to work there.
    3. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 3 November 2013 23: 02
      +2
      Quote: bolonenkov
      kindergartens open at 20-25 per week
      Link to official sources please.

      fertility increases and mortality falls
      To official sources.


      and in October 9 enterprises were opened worth more than 1 billion rubles and another dozen 300 million each
      What produce. and where did you see these products?

      and Sukhoi has already released 33 serial Superjet
      Balance investment profit please (at the same time, it would be nice to justify a strange detail - 70% of foreign components)

      Well, and much more, about which in the 90s you could only dream
      Tell us about the problems of the 90th year specifically. and then the "90s" is very vague.
      1. bolonenkov
        bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 33
        0
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Link to official sources please.


        Everything is given in the sources that I cited, do not be lazy.
        That's the way kindergartens over the past week
        http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43103/

        Quote: Yarosvet
        Balance investment profit please (at the same time, it would be nice to justify a strange detail - 70% of foreign components)

        Teach materiel.
        Quote: Yarosvet
        Tell us about the problems of the 90th year specifically. and then the "90s" is very vague.

        If you are adequate, then you yourself know, if not, ask your mother, if you do not want, you can say that it was sunny there until the 2000s
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 4 November 2013 15: 34
          0
          Quote: bolonenkov
          Everything is given in the sources that I cited, do not be lazy.
          That's the way kindergartens over the past week
          http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43103/
          1st: "doneunas" is not an official source.
          2nd: you write that kindergartens OPEN, but they do not open after construction, but after repair. That is, they were there (they just returned a couple of buildings) - these are not new kindergartens.

          Teach materiel
          Well, teach me how much state funds were invested, and how many were recaptured on 33 jets?

          if you want, you can say that it was sunny there until the 2000s
          So basically you have nothing to say? laughing

          How did you find out about the 90s yourself - did you tell your mother, or are you listening to Fedorov / guards / old people?
          1. bolonenkov
            bolonenkov 4 November 2013 17: 23
            0
            Quote: Yarosvet
            1st: "doneunas" is not an official source.

            If you follow the link, you won’t ask stupid questions. Your attitude to the resource does not cancel the facts contained in it

            Quote: Yarosvet
            2-nd: you write that the kindergartens are OPEN, but they open not after construction, but after repair.

            a) kindergartens that have been idle for several years begin to work, and more children can take
            b) brand new gardens are being built
            140 kindergarten built in Irkutsk
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/42821/
            A children's garden "Palace of Childhood" was built in Stavropol
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/41010/
            New school and kindergarten in Krasnodar
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/40568/

            Quote: Yarosvet
            Well, teach me how much state funds were invested, and how many were recaptured on 33 jets?

            Development cost (billion dollars) 1,8
            The volume of state support (billion dollars) 0,44 (the lowest of competitors)
            Current solid orders 133 pcs
            Options and minutes of intent 93 pcs
            Price under real contracts (million dollars) 33-35 million
            A total of $ 4,4 billion on solid, plus possible options profits
            http://expert.ru/expert/2013/40/vozdushnoe-ralli/

            Quote: Yarosvet
            So basically you have nothing to say?

            Credit rating data, charts of key economic indicators from the IMF and more to help you.

            Quote: Yarosvet
            How did you find out about the 90s yourself - did you tell your mother, or are you listening to Fedorov / guards / old people?

            So basically you have nothing to say?
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 4 November 2013 20: 01
              0
              Quote: bolonenkov
              If you follow the link
              Of course, I went through it.

              kindergartens that have been idle for several years begin to work, and more children can take
              Where is it written that they have not worked for several years? These are working gardens in which local authorities finally made repairs.

              b) brand new gardens are being built
              140 kindergarten built in Irkutsk
              http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/42821/
              On 01.06.13/28000/XNUMX, the line in kindergartens in Irkutsk amounted to over XNUMX people.

              A children's garden "Palace of Childhood" was built in Stavropol
              http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/41010/
              New school and kindergarten in Krasnodar
              http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/40568/
              The queue for kindergartens at the beginning of the year in the country was 2.4 million

              Development cost ...
              So how many beat off, what are the payback periods and the likely profit?

              Credit rating data, charts of key economic indicators from the IMF and others to help you
              They help, but sometimes you need to turn on the head too - the meaning of the state’s existence is not in graphs with positive dynamics.

              So basically you have nothing to say?
              I’m telling you, in fact, about trends, but you’re trying to pass off a rare small-town correspondence to the norm for great achievements.
              1. bolonenkov
                bolonenkov 4 November 2013 21: 31
                0
                Quote: Yarosvet
                On 01.06.13/28000/XNUMX, the line in kindergartens in Irkutsk amounted to over XNUMX people.

                Quote: Yarosvet
                The queue for kindergartens at the beginning of the year in the country was 2.4 million

                The fact of construction of new kindergartens does not cancel, and I have never denied problems. By the way, you changed the thesis again: "A LOT OF NEW GARDENS ARE BUILDING IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION" BECAME "OCHKRKDI IN KINDERGARTEN"
                And yes, where is the source?


                Quote: Yarosvet
                So how many beat off, what are the payback periods and the likely profit?

                Reread the message
                Development cost (billion dollars) 1,8
                The volume of state support (billion dollars) 0,44 (the lowest of competitors)
                Current solid orders 133 pcs
                Options and minutes of intent 93 pcs
                Price under real contracts (million dollars) 33-35 million
                A total of $ 4,4 billion on solid, plus possible options profits
                http://expert.ru/expert/2013/40/vozdushnoe-ralli/

                Total They spent 1,8 billion dollars, have already sold 1 billion, for solid contracts another 3,4 billion plus option

                Quote: Yarosvet
                They help, but sometimes you need to turn on the head too - the meaning of the state’s existence is not in graphs with positive dynamics.

                Not in them, but only trends show the real state of affairs, and not separately taken facts of low salaries or queues from kindergarten

                Which by the way is shown in the picture you provided, with an increase in the birth rate of the last 5 years, the number of children per 100 places in kindergartens does not change.
                In other words, there are more kindergartens and children, but kindergartens are still obviously lacking.

                Incidentally,
                Quote: Yarosvet
                The queue for kindergartens at the beginning of the year in the country was 2.4 million

                The 2,4 million figure does not mean that now 2,4 million children are sitting at home and waiting for a place in kindergartens, many are still conceived, a quarter, if not more, have been born, and most will get a place in 1-3 years after birth, at least in the South Urals it is
                http://www.chel.aif.ru/edu/edu_details/943903

                Yaroslav, I understand that your goal is to argue with me, and to prove that everything is terrible for me, but my goal is to say that there are a lot of problems, many of which are glaring, but to hell about the fact that everything is getting better in this country worse and worse, or standing still is not worth it.
              2. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 4 November 2013 23: 27
                0
                Quote: bolonenkov
                The fact of building new kindergartens does not cancel
                Where is the fact of mass construction of new gardens indicated? 90% are working gardens after repair.

                A LOT OF NEW GARDENS ARE BUILDING IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION "BECAME" OCHKRKDI IN KIDS
                Decl is being built in such a way, as the 2.4 million turn shows.

                And yes, where is the source?
                Good evening - the screenshot of the page from the Rosstat website does not seem to exist?

                http://expert.ru/expert/2013/40/vozdushnoe-ralli/
                I re-read it - I did not see which part of the state funds was repulsed, I did not see the payback plan for the invested state funds, I did not see profit forecasts for the state.

                Not in them, but only trends show the real state of affairs, and not separately taken facts of low salaries or queues from kindergarten
                My dear - low salaries and queues in kindergarten at the moment, unfortunately, are precisely the trends.

                In other words, there are more kindergartens and children, but kindergartens are still obviously lacking.

                In other words, you look at the book and see ...
                The number of gardens in 2000 was 51300, in the 12th 44300. The population has decreased by 2000 million since 3.8, the increase is mainly due to the Caucasus.
                And you see the growth of kindergartens and population.

                many are still conceived
                He understood what he wrote? laughing

                My goal, if possible, is to set my brains, but it’s not your case - if you just can’t read normally, you see what you want instead of what you really wrote, you confuse Yaroslav and Yarosvet, you don’t see the reduction of preschool institutions in the table - what’s about you you can speak?
              3. bolonenkov
                bolonenkov 5 November 2013 13: 37
                0
                Quote: Yarosvet
                Decl is being built in such a way, as the 2.4 million turn shows.

                Quote: Yarosvet
                Where is the fact of mass construction of new gardens indicated? 90% are working gardens after repair.

                Part 1 http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27495/
                Part 2 http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27516/
                Part 3 http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27530/
                Part 4 http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27596/
                According to official data, during the last (2012) school year, it was commissioned 549 NEW educational institutions, of which 431 preschool educational institutions. + put into operation after a downtime, or overhaul gardens, where it becomes possible to increase the number of groups.
                In turn, you were cited as an example the South Urals, where children go to kindergarten when they reach 3 years
                http://www.chel.aif.ru/edu/edu_details/943903
                And in Perm from January 1, 2009 in Perm, monthly allowances are paid to parents whose children between the ages of 1,5 and 5 do not attend kindergartens.
                - families with children aged 1,5 to 3 years - 5300 rubles.
                - families with children aged 3 to 5 years - 4500 rubles.
                http://www.gorodperm.ru/social/education/edu-ds/pospbie_ds/
                It is unlikely that this is only in the Urals or in Perm. And no one denied the problems with the lack of kindergartens and the need to solve it.

                Quote: Yarosvet
                I re-read it - I did not see which part of the state funds was repulsed, I did not see the payback plan for the invested state funds, I did not see profit forecasts for the state.

                Shitty read.
                Total They spent 1,8 billion dollars (of which 0,45 budget), have already sold 1 billion, under fixed contracts another 3,4 billion plus an option.
                Calculate the timing of the transition to work in plus yourself, just like sales taxes. For the state, it will already pay off when the first 50-60 boards are delivered.

                The population has declined by 2000 million since 3.8

                We talked about kindergartens, that is, children die?
                And yes.
                The population of the Russian Federation declined from 1995 to 2009 (a total of 6,5 million), in 2010 the trend was broken and by 2013 the population increased by 1,3 million.
                From 1993 to 2005, the natural decrease was stably high and practically did not change, from 2006 the natural decrease was sharply reduced and in 2012 reached its lowest point since 1993 and is equal to 0 (or, according to some reports, there is a slight minus)

                the increase is mainly due to the Caucasus.


                According to the Ministry of Labor and Social Protection for the period from January to August 2013 maximum population growth recorded in Tatarstan, Khabarovsk Territory, Samara, Ulyanovsk and Novosibirsk Regions, St. Petersburg. In general, a high birth rate was observed in 41 regions of Russia.

                In Moscow, the most popular names of boys in 2012 are Artyom, Alexander, Maxim, Ivan and Mikhail. Girls - Sophia, Maria, Anastasia, Daria and Anna. Moreover, the list of the 50 most popular names of boys of non-Russian names is not at all. The first non-Russian name in the ranking of girls - Amina - is in 38th place.
                http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_malchikov.php
                http://zags.mos.ru/stat/imena/imena_devochek.php

                You can continue to fart in a puddle with your calculations all-enforcer.
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS 4 November 2013 22: 03
    +1
    Quote: Yarosvet
    Quote: bolonenkov
    kindergartens open at 20-25 per week
    Link to official sources please.


    Yarosvet Do not you feel sorry for the time spent on this biomass?
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 4 November 2013 23: 30
      0
      Quote: O_RUS
      Yarosvet Do not you feel sorry for the time spent on this biomass?
      Pity crying
  • Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 4 November 2013 18: 59
    0
    Breaking - not building!
  • Vadim2013
    Vadim2013 2 November 2013 12: 08
    35
    At the "helm" in Russia are people who purposefully create a stratum of the rich to support the existing order in Russia. Their main task is to maintain their power. The rest of Russia's problems are of little concern to them.
    1. 225chay
      225chay 2 November 2013 13: 39
      12
      Quote: Vadim2013
      At the "helm" in Russia are people who purposefully create a stratum of the rich to support the existing order in Russia. Their main task is to maintain their power. The rest of Russia's problems are of little concern to them.

      In addition, the Russian government has an ostrich policy ...
      with your head in the sand you don’t have to worry about an approaching disaster
  • bolonenkov
    bolonenkov 2 November 2013 15: 40
    -17 qualifying.
    Or fucking experts you got all this from
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 3 November 2013 05: 47
      +5
      and you, two-headed, mishandled Cossack, it seems ...
      1. bolonenkov
        bolonenkov 3 November 2013 12: 39
        -3
        No, it's just that I am the one who has fallen out of the trend, and now on this resource the advantages are not the one who writes something worthwhile or at least constructive, but the one who better douses the authorities, Russia or anyone who disagrees with the fact that the Russian Federation is rolling into the abyss.

        My message "Or crappy experts from whom you got all this stuff" got 11, but the fact that with specific numbers and facts that we have cautious optimism in development got the first two minuses in the first three minutes ... it does not fit the fact that in the Russian Federation something can be built and developed in the minds of all-spreading people and others like them iksperds.
        And about the fact that I need to check and analyze information from the Internet, I generally keep quiet, because there are still a bunch of people who firmly believe that we are decreasing a million a year, and only migrants and Caucasians give birth in the Russian Federation.
        That's why I write that your fruit of thought is about
        with your head in the sand you don’t have to worry about an approaching disaster

        is partly the result of information warfare or ordinary amateurism in dealing with facts.
        I heard that "Russia has 3-5 years left" in 2000, 2005, 2010 and now I also hear about the "approaching catastrophe".
        Accordingly, dick experts come across you
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 3 November 2013 13: 55
          +4
          You did not fall out of the "trend", and funding from your organizations was cut laughing
          1. bolonenkov
            bolonenkov 3 November 2013 15: 09
            -1
            Oh yeah. I wrote about it here already

            Quote: bolonenkov
            Sorry for the confusion, who agrees with me, he will understand, who does not, at least explain to him, he has one answer "Surkov's propaganda", "sent Cossack", "Nashist", "85 rubles" and other stereotyped heresy
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 3 November 2013 15: 53
              +1
              Well, we are for you a "foreign agent", "we feed from the hand of Washington", "State Department propaganda", etc.

              However, these epithets are suitable for the liberals, but not for the "left", but you do not care, no matter what views the person holds, if he is against Putin, he is on the salary of the State Department. Your activists poured a lot of shit on us during the election campaign.
              I also propose to end this dispute, because. It is useless to argue about ideologies.
              1. bolonenkov
                bolonenkov 3 November 2013 17: 23
                -1
                I didn’t write anything like that, and the all-emperor is not a job, but a state of mind, a lack of intelligence and love for his Fatherland
                1. kaktus
                  kaktus 3 November 2013 19: 31
                  +3
                  why a star-striped flag?
                2. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 3 November 2013 19: 53
                  +5
                  Quote: kaktus
                  why a star-striped flag?
                3. The comment was deleted.
              2. bolonenkov
                bolonenkov 3 November 2013 21: 07
                0
                Also Chinese, I am now in China studying. Have to use freegate.
              3. The comment was deleted.
            2. Cossack23
              Cossack23 4 November 2013 01: 00
              0
              yes because he is pi .... with
          2. Normal
            Normal 3 November 2013 23: 47
            +4
            Quote: bolonenkov
            and the all-companion is not a job, but a state of mind,

            And yet the entire polymerist is a job requiring a lack of conscience and political myopia.
          3. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 3 November 2013 23: 52
            +2
            Quote: Normal
            political myopia.

            And the corresponding payment.
          4. bolonenkov
            bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 35
            -1
            Sorry for the confusion, who agrees with me, he will understand, who does not, at least explain to him, he has one answer "Surkov's propaganda", "sent Cossack", "Nashist", "85 rubles" and other stereotyped heresy
        2. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 35
          0
          Well then in the 90s you were far-sighted! We still see how much !!!
  • bear
    bear 3 November 2013 23: 38
    +9
    bolonenkov CN
    I heard that "Russia has 3-5 years left" in 2000,

    You were 2000 years old in 10, so you shouldn’t give a damn what happened in the country, except for toons and sweets.
    And in 2005 it was 15, and then you didn’t give a shit, you thought about where to get the money so that your girlfriend could walk more nicely, well, unless of course the parents are not officials

    Accordingly, dick experts come across you

    You make it easier on corners do not pierce laughing
    1. bolonenkov
      bolonenkov 4 November 2013 08: 38
      +1
      Age does not interfere with reading articles of the past))

      By the way, in the 2000s my parents did not have money for sweets, thanks to scoops and liberals of the 90s.

      Quote: bear
      Accordingly, dick experts come across you

      So all the same, when is the end of Russia ??
  • Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 4 November 2013 20: 07
    0
    Finally, at least one "smart" recourse so many dick experts found
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 3 November 2013 13: 54
    +1
    They again began to appear on the campaign site, it is necessary to resist them!
  • Vidok
    Vidok 8 November 2013 12: 06
    0
    + He very competently jumped off the topic of the article and pulled everyone else with him. So he was sent unambiguously. And the eagle covered himself so that the greens would not see him. I didn’t even get interested in reading this whole "mahach" and idle talk from the State Statistics Service.
  • varov14
    varov14 2 November 2013 19: 02
    +5
    "Islamic radicals operate practically freely in Russia" ---- No, here they are not non-professionals, here are outright traitors. There are a lot of facts in the article, and they were obviously not dug up by journalists. It turns out that in the bud it was possible to do a complete cleanup.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 3 November 2013 05: 43
    +9
    MITEK (We are now the era of laymen.) We are now the era of scoundrels! crying
  • sasha127
    sasha127 3 November 2013 09: 07
    +1
    At the helm, not only non-professionals, but also corrupt bastards. For whom there is nothing more than light.
  • valton
    valton 3 November 2013 15: 16
    +1
    Quote: Mitek
    We are now the era of lay people. Upstairs are those who lick better, and not those who are competent.


    And I think, above, there are VERY great professionals! Look how skillfully and professionally coordinated actions are to destabilize the situation inside the country. But the most important thing is that the Russians themselves are to blame for everything that happens !!!
    As they say arrived.
  • timer
    timer 4 November 2013 18: 27
    +3
    They are just professionals in the destruction and destruction of the country and people. The article raises the painful and serious issue of interfaith interaction in Russia and attempts to replace traditional Islam with alien and hostile orthodox Islam. I myself live in Tatarstan and remember very well that many young people were sent to study theology in Saudi Arabia. Mosques were built with Saudi money. That's the result. I believe that it is imperative to analyze this situation, on the basis of this analysis, to develop a balanced political strategy and implement it consistently. It is necessary to train Islamic theologians in Russia, organize a council of authoritative Muslim elders, and together push out radical Islam from Russia and develop traditional moderate . But when from some headless politicians I hear comments that Muslims (I myself am a Tatar and a Muslim) are to blame for the problems!
  • a52333
    a52333 2 November 2013 09: 28
    15
    There is a suspicion that the main sponsor (SA) will soon drown with his own g @ vnom.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 09: 30
      18
      Quote: a52333
      soon his darling will drown.

      I would add my own for the sake of this. laughing
      1. antiaircrafter
        antiaircrafter 2 November 2013 09: 52
        13
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        I would add my own

        Where is it collected?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 7ydmco
          7ydmco 2 November 2013 13: 56
          +5
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          Where is it collected?

          Over the ocean
        3. Ptah
          Ptah 2 November 2013 15: 19
          +3
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          Where is it collected?

          Again "a raw material appendage", only this time in the East. The local sheikhs grow their own oases on such valuable fertilizer.
          You can’t send without deep processing. Dry and briquette. Well then......

          "The old man looked at his cow:
          Why am I, Burenka, selling you? -
          Cow its not selling to anyone -
          You need such a brute yourself! "

          / S.V. Mikhalkov /
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 2 November 2013 09: 50
      13
      Quote: a52333
      There is a suspicion that the main sponsor (SA) will soon drown with his own g @ vnom.

      It’s unlikely, but it’s a pity that to see this I would agree and overpay for gasoline.
      As long as they have oil, there is loot. And with such a dough, they will hire someone to thread this Mr. to eat for them. But someday their oil will run out, and then it will be fun to look at them.
      1. a52333
        a52333 2 November 2013 10: 41
        +9
        As long as they have oil, there is loot.
        Iraq and Libya also had everything. And in what place of the anus to look for them now? Bandar recently announced what it would be better to keep quiet. I started for myself a countdown of the last days of SA.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 2 November 2013 15: 18
          +5
          Quote: a52333
          Iraq and Libya also had everything. And in what place of the anus to look for them now? Bandar recently announced what it would be better to keep quiet. I started for myself a countdown of the last days of SA.

          All this heresy must be eradicated where it came from! If the CA's "roof" in the person of the United States ceases to exist, and the United States itself turns from a global power into a regional power, then Russia or China will carry "democracy" to this country under the guise of protecting the population from militant Wahhabis. The entire "root of evil" for the spread of Wahhabism comes from this particular country (plus the mini-state of Qatar) under the tacit control of "mattresses".
          1. a52333
            a52333 2 November 2013 16: 11
            +5
            Quote: ramzes1776
            All this heresy must be eradicated where it came from!
            Who would argue! Of course.
            The USA will cease to exist, and the USA itself will turn from a global into a regional power,
            We will not run ahead of the steam smoke: everything shows that we are moving in this direction, but the time for the high-profile statement has not yet come. recourse
            Russia or China will bring "democracy" to this country under the guise of protecting the population from the militant Wahhabis.
            And here by. China will resist - for them, CA is the main, strategic oil supplier.
            1. ramzes1776
              ramzes1776 2 November 2013 17: 41
              +6
              Quote: a52333
              China will resist - for them, CA is the main, strategic oil supplier.

              Well, let China "demacratit" it. Why would he, such a power, pay at world prices, if you can take this country under control and put their companies for the extraction and sale of oil, as is now happening in Iraq from the amers. In any case, the Saudis will no longer have time for any caliphates, and even less for the Caucasus and Russia as a whole. Well, according to this scenario, Qatar will "de-democratize" and everyone (China and Russia) will be happy drinks
            2. wasjasibirjac
              wasjasibirjac 2 November 2013 18: 58
              +2
              Quote: a52333
              And here by. China will resist - for them, CA is the main, strategic oil supplier.

              interesting, but the PRC will agree to accept another province of China Arabia, since they accepted Singapore?
      2. Rusich51
        Rusich51 3 November 2013 08: 23
        +1
        Quote: Nagan
        Quote: a52333
        There is a suspicion that the main sponsor (SA) will soon drown with his own g @ vnom.

        It’s unlikely, but it’s a pity that to see this I would agree and overpay for gasoline.
        As long as they have oil, there is loot. And with such a dough, they will hire someone to thread this Mr. to eat for them. But someday their oil will run out, and then it will be fun to look at them.


        Not all money is decided, and these goats will fall back, the time will come.
    3. AVV
      AVV 3 November 2013 00: 32
      +2
      We must conduct special operations ourselves with foreign intelligence, or with the appropriate structures, so that America itself crushes the SA, or so that it destroys this vile nest from the inside !!!
  • Denis
    Denis 2 November 2013 09: 49
    11
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Questions, some questions ...

    Yes, Muslims themselves do not know the answers, each interprets the Koran as it suits him, everywhere there are only reservations.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 10: 03
      16
      Quote: Denis
      , everyone interprets the Koran as it suits him,

      In general, like the Bible. Religion is always used as a means of manipulating society.
      1. Denis
        Denis 2 November 2013 10: 12
        +5
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        In general, like the Bible

        only they sometimes interpret it (koran) with weapons in their hands.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 10: 32
          +2
          Quote: Denis
          interpret (koran) with weapons in their hands.

          The Crusaders also interpreted the Bible with a sword in their hands. The war against the infidels is a feature of all one-god religions, because they claim exclusivity.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 11: 18
            12
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            The Crusaders also interpreted the Bible with a sword in their hands

            Read the Bible and find at least a line that says that you need to fight and kill.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 11: 50
              +5
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Read the Bible and find at least a line that says that you need to fight and kill.

              Hello Sasha. In the Qur'an, too, everything for the world is written. But the seeker will find the reason. And there, and she is full of reservations.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 12: 01
                +5
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Hi Sasha.

                Firework hi
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                . In the Qur'an, too, everything for the world is written. But the seeker will find the reason. And there, and she is full of reservations.

                I’ve never read it, let’s say that I don’t need it. It's not mine. But where are the reservations in the Bible, I would like to hear
                1. ramin_serg
                  ramin_serg 2 November 2013 12: 53
                  13
                  I strongly advise you to read a lot of good things. You will learn, for example, that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are one and the same faith in one Allah (or everyone calls God differently, but this is the same essence), but in each era, different forces interpreted differently as the authorities benefited here is the disunity.
                  1. kaktus
                    kaktus 2 November 2013 13: 03
                    29
                    God alone, the providers are different?
                  2. pensioner
                    pensioner 2 November 2013 20: 05
                    +5
                    Quote: kaktus
                    God alone, the providers are different?

                    kaktus !!Joke of the year! Definitely !! good hi
                  3. kaktus
                    kaktus 3 November 2013 20: 49
                    +1
                    Thank you. hi The joke is not mine - from the Internet. About "God is one, only different faith" I hear from childhood (the same, 60-70 years). Extremists are definitely aliens, or they have the wrong am providers
              2. andruha70
                andruha70 2 November 2013 13: 38
                +8
                I strongly advise you to read a lot of good things. You will find out, for example, that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are one and the same faith in one Allah (or everyone calls God in his own way, but it is one and the same essence)
                not faith, but religion ... do not confuse these completely different concepts
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 2 November 2013 19: 48
                0
                Quote: Max111
                So you want to say that God is a liar?

                In Genesis 20: 7, God calls Abraham a prophet — do you know at least one prophecy of Abraham?
              5. duke
                duke 2 November 2013 22: 14
                +3
                Dear Yarosvet, you forgot to ask, and what "prophecies" of Muhammad were fulfilled? First: Abraham is not just a prophet ..., he is a prophet of the Covenant (Old) or Union with God.
                With Abraham, God concluded TWO !!! Testament ... And only with him ...
                The covenant of circumcision (about which Apostle Paul spoke as a type of baptism) and the Testament of the tongue, i.e. Covenant of faith ...
                Scripture testifies of him that he had a pure heart for he saw God
                Mt 5 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
                and talked with him face to face.
                Genesis 18 22 And the men turned from there and went to Sodom; Abraham was still standing before the Lord.
                The fact that Abraham the prophet testifies also this verse:
                Genesis 18 17 And the Lord said: Do I hide from Abraham [my servant] what I want to do!
                Am 3 7 For the Lord God does nothing without revealing His secret to His servants, the prophets.
                In the early Christian tradition, the sacrifice of Isaac is seen as a prediction of the martyrdom of Christ. According to the Fathers of the Church, Jesus himself pointed to this story as a prototype of his forthcoming Calvary sacrifice: “Abraham, your father, was glad to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced ”(John 8:56). This opinion is already contained in the writings of Irenaeus of Lyons (II century), Gregory the Theologian (IV century) and is developed by subsequent theologians. They compare Isaac's obedience to the will of Abraham and Jesus of the will of God the Father, Isaac's carrying of firewood to the mountain is called the prototype of Jesus carrying the Cross, and his path to the mountain - the way of the Cross to Calvary.
                In the New Testament, Abraham, along with Moses, is the most frequently mentioned Old Testament righteous. The genealogy of Jesus Christ is brought to the forefather of all Jews to Abraham: “The genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” (Matthew 1: 1). In the birth of Christ, the Christian tradition sees the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham that in his seed (which, according to the apostle Paul, is Christ (Gal. 3:16)), all the nations of the earth will be blessed (Gen. 22:18).
                The Bible does not say anything about the Arab prophets (Ishmaelites), for the Old Testament was with Israel, and after Christ, the meaning in the message of the prophets was lost ...
              6. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 2 November 2013 22: 45
                +4
                Quote: duke
                you forgot to ask, which "prophecies" of Muhammad were fulfilled?
                I didn’t forget - I don’t see any reason to find out which of them is the biggest liar, especially since neither Christianity nor Islam in their essence have differences (they differ only in form) and originate from the same source.

                I answered your question in the form of a question (without asking on what basis you affirm the reality of God, and Christianity with true faith), thereby identifying one of the contradictions of the Bible - Abraham, despite the statement of the biblical god, was not a prophet and not a single prophecy neither did.

                In the New Testament, Abraham, along with Moses, is the most frequently mentioned Old Testament righteous
                That's right - a righteous man, not a prophet (neither of which is the same), but another contradiction arises here: this righteous man, with the help and support of the Sabaoth, successfully engaged in pimping and extortion, and lied as a real politician.

                As a result, the question arises - in what value system can such a character be called a righteous person, a prophet (without making a single prophecy), and a higher being (lying, destroying adults and children, and committing what is now considered atrocity) to be called holy and good?

                not the same Essence
                The same, moreover, the prototype of Allah and Sabaoth / Yahweh was one (or several) of the Middle Eastern gods with the qualities of Baal.
              7. duke
                duke 2 November 2013 23: 10
                0
                I already said, the main prophecy - In the birth of Christ, the Christian tradition sees the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham that in his seed (which, according to the Apostle Paul, is Christ (Gal. 3:16)), all the nations of the earth will be blessed (Genesis 22: eighteen). And about Allah, whose prototype you call Baal the God of the moon, then if I am not mistaken, with his prophets, the prophet Elijah of God just fought ...
              8. duke
                duke 2 November 2013 23: 22
                0
                I do not ask you either, on what basis do you deny the reality of God? Why don’t you see the difference between Christ and Veliar, that you pull individual phrases out of context?
        2. bolonenkov
          bolonenkov 3 November 2013 13: 25
          +3
          And where did you get this from ....
        3. Atash
          Atash 5 November 2013 16: 13
          0
          Live longer than 23 years, believe me, you still have to gain and gain. It seems to you that the history of mankind began from the date of your birth? laughing
    2. duke
      duke 2 November 2013 21: 41
      +1
      The God of Christians, Jews, the God of Israel, is not the same Essence as Allah, about which there is no mention in the Bible. Also, there is no meaning in the new prophets after Christ.
    3. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 3 November 2013 11: 58
      0
      Quote: duke
      I already said the main prophecy - In the birth of Christ, the Christian tradition sees the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham that in his seed (which, according to the Apostle Paul, is Christ (Gal. 3:16)), all the nations of the earth will be blessed (Genesis 22: eighteen)
      The Christian tradition generally makes many, to put it mildly, illogical assumptions: a prophecy is voiced or recorded information about the future (obtained by irrational means) - therefore again: what prophecy did Abraham make (in which book, in which verses is it written down)?

      But let's assume for a second that the assumption made by the Christian tradition is true - in this case we get that the prophet Sabaoth prophesied, not Abraham, that Abraham did not make a single prophecy, and therefore the Sabaoth, calling Abraham a prophet, is lying.

      And about Allah, the prototype of which you call Baal
      Substitution of concepts - I call Baal the prototype of the god of all Abrahamic religions.

      then if I’m not mistaken, with his prophets, just the prophet Elijah of God fought ...
      Christianity is also divided into confessions that fight each other - it is such a struggle for power.

      Quote: duke
      I do not ask you either, on what basis do you deny the reality of God?
      On the basis of its unreality, there are no facts confirming this hypothesis, but there are refuting ones.

      Why don’t you see the difference between Christ and Veliar, that you pull individual phrases out of context?
      If one brother is a prosecutor and the other is a lawyer who met at the same trial - do they stop being brothers?
      And how sideways did you drag Veliara here?

      Quote: duke
      The God of Christians, Jews, the God of Israel, is not the same Essence as Allah, about whom the Bible does not mention
      That is, the names Hagar and Ishmael do not tell you anything?
      Meanwhile, the servant of Sarah Hagar gave birth to Ishmael from Abraham, and it was from Ishmael that the Arabs lead their clan, venerating the same god as Abraham.

      Also, there is no meaning in the new prophets after Christ.
      As far as I understand, your value system claims that such issues are not in your competence.
    4. Guun
      Guun 3 November 2013 12: 14
      +1
      Quote: Yarosvet
      That is, the names Hagar and Ishmael do not tell you anything? Meanwhile, the servant of Sarah Hagar gave birth to Ishmael from Abraham, and it was from Ishmael that the Arabs lead their clan, venerating the same god as Abraham.

      I agree with you. That both the Jew and the Muslims worship the One God. God to whom Abraham prayed. Arabs and a Jew are cousins, like Kazakhs and Uzbeks.
    5. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 3 November 2013 18: 29
      +1
      Quote: Guun
      I agree with you. That both the Jew and the Muslims worship the One God. God to whom Abraham prayed. Arabs and a Jew are cousins, like Kazakhs and Uzbeks.

      Both Arabs and Jews are Semites, so they are relatives, but that's not the point - for some reason, it is very necessary for people to simply believe, despite the contradictions and lack of evidence.
  • APES
    APES 2 November 2013 15: 11
    +6
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Ingvar 72. The Koran also says everything for peace. But the seeker will find a reason. And there, and that one is full of reservations. I have never read it, let's just say I don’t need it. This is not mine. But where in the Bible


    if you are interested, look - a comparison of Orthodoxy and Islam

    http://azbyka.ru/religii/islam/hristianstvo_i_islam_01-all.shtmlе

    As an example:

    1.12. Does religion believe that God begets evil?

    Orthodoxy - No

    True, Holy and Righteous God is not a source of evil.

    “God is light, and there is no darkness in Him”
    (1 John 1. 5).

    “God is not tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone” (James 1: 13). “He who does good is from God; but he who does evil has not seen God. ”
    (1 Tim. 2. 4).

    “All his ways are righteous. God is faithful and there is no unrighteousness in Him
    (Deut. 32: 4).

    Islam - Says Yes

    Allah is the source of evil.

    “Both good and evil are from Allah” (10). Allah brings benefit and harm (11), Allah is evil and good ”(12).
    1. alone
      alone 2 November 2013 19: 36
      -4
      Allah and God are one and the same. What kind of nonsense did you print here?
  • APES
    APES 2 November 2013 15: 20
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    But where are the reservations in the Bible


    for example, deuteronomy:

    "destroy evil from among you"

    For understanding, the Christian has no tolerance for Evil, in this regard he is a Warrior - he will fight and even fight against evil wherever possible and necessary.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 2 November 2013 16: 49
      -3
      Quote: APES
      For understanding, the Christian has no tolerance for Evil, in this regard he is a Warrior - he will fight and even fight against evil wherever possible and necessary.
      The only question is what is considered evil.

      Physically destroy the heretic, idolater, witch, etc. for a Christian is good, while the above-mentioned characters are people questioning the postulates in which the Christian believes, as well as people acting contrary to the understanding of the Christian.

      And another interesting point: God, in the understanding of a Christian, is always a positive guy, and the devil is negative - although he acts according to the direction of God.
    2. APES
      APES 2 November 2013 17: 48
      +3
      Quote: Yarosvet
      The only question is what is considered evil.


      The Bible also has an answer to this question.
      If you want to begin to understand this issue - then the time is at least a year.

      Quote: Yarosvet
      Physically destroy the heretic, idolater, witch, etc. for a Christian is good, while the above-mentioned characters are people questioning the postulates in which the Christian believes, as well as people acting contrary to the understanding of the Christian.


      My answer is: the history of the church is the history of HOLINESS, and not human sins.

      Quote: Yarosvet
      And another interesting point: God in the understanding of a Christian

      I repeat: in order to understand this you will need a year - do you need this?

      Regarding statistics:

      Flood in which Noah survived with his family, Sodom and Gomorrah - What kind of people were they?
      Further: during the 2 Advent, when there will be a righteous trial of the living and the dead, do you think there will be someone to stand on ceremony?
    3. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 2 November 2013 18: 38
      +2
      Quote: APES
      The Bible also has an answer to this question.
      If you want to begin to understand this issue - then the time is at least a year
      If you make assumptions, do not pay attention to the mass of contradictions and slowly think.

      My answer is: the history of the church is the history of HOLINESS, and not human sins
      Everything is beautiful in words, but what is holiness in the fight against dissent and for power? In the destruction and mockery of people on far-fetched grounds (which, of course, are true for a Christian)? In a lie, a substitution of concepts and in double morality?

      I repeat: in order to understand this you will need a year - do you need this?
      Well then, I repeat: if any religion could be understood unambiguously, then different faiths would not have arisen. If any religion could justify its justice, then on the planet there would be only one religion, which would not be a religion, but knowledge - obvious to everyone.

      Flood in which Noah survived with his family, Sodom and Gomorrah - What kind of people were they?
      The Bible claims that Noah was righteous, although the context shows that he was an impulsive drunk. The Bible claims that Ham sinned, although it can be seen from the context that he did not. In Genesis 7: 4, God claims that it will pour out rain for 40 days and 40 nights, and at 7:24 it is claimed that water intensified for 150 days.
      What specifically are you asking?

      Further: during the 2 Advent, when there will be a righteous trial of the living and the dead, do you think there will be someone to stand on ceremony?
      So far, there is a lot of good reason to doubt the first.
      What do you think - Luke 9: 20-27 passage is about what?
    4. APES
      APES 2 November 2013 21: 39
      +2
      Quote: Yarosvet
      If you make assumptions, do not pay attention to the mass of contradictions and slowly think.


      I apologize, I did not recognize you right away. good evening hi

      Quote: Yarosvet
      Well then, I repeat: if any religion could be understood unambiguously, then different faiths would not have arisen.

      answer: Freedom of Will
      various faiths - from whom are they?

      Quote: Yarosvet
      Everything is beautiful in words, but what is holiness -

      read about the saints, how they lived and why and how they died

      Quote: Yarosvet
      What specifically are you asking?

      those who were destroyed, not those who survived
      Quote: Yarosvet
      As long as there is a lot of good reason to doubt

      Your right, I can only pray for you again love

      PS re-read the book of Job - if possible wink
    5. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 2 November 2013 23: 11
      0
      Quote: APES
      I apologize, I did not recognize you right away
      Maybe I'll be rich ... winked - of course, first of all, spiritually smile

      Free will
      This is just a declaration, as can be seen from the text of the Bible itself.

      various faiths - from whom are they?
      Mormons, for example, claim to be from God.
      The leaders of the denominations claim that it dawned on them that everyone else misunderstood the texts.
      The leaders of religions claim that their religions are true. since God himself said to the founders.
      The leaders of the sects say the same thing.

      read about the saints, how they lived and why and how they died
      For example, about the bloody Kolya?

      those who were destroyed, not those who survived
      For example, about the mass of extremely sinful animals, it is not known why drowned?

      Your right, I can only pray for you again
      Thank you hi

      PS re-read the book of Job - if possible
      In it, if I am not mistaken, there is a very entertaining moment, indicating the absence of post-mortem.
      Also, when you read it, the question arises - what the hell was it to torture a person (simultaneously destroying his innocent family), if both Mr. Divine Prosecutor and God himself know the test result in advance?
    6. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 November 2013 09: 18
      0
      Quote: APES
      various faiths - from whom are they?

      Christianity for about 30 years after the crucifixion of Christ was considered only one of the sects in the framework of Judaism. Like it or not, Islam and Christianity, the Abramic religions, and the principle of exclusivity and the negation of other religions is inherent in them initially. All this creates intolerance, and as a result, the struggle for Faith. And the roots are in the Torah.
  • Novik
    Novik 2 November 2013 19: 37
    +1
    Quote: Yarosvet
    And another interesting point: God, in the understanding of a Christian, is always a positive guy, and the devil is negative

    But who is the devil?
    Paganism - a polytheistic religion, Christianity - monotheistic.

    Source: http://thedifference.ru/chem-otlichaetsya-xristianstvo-ot-yazychestva/
    God is one (mono) and he is one.
    - Satan in Judaism (the roots of Christianity) is simply an accuser, a servant of God.
    Why do people themselves empower Satan, which he did not have and should not have at all.
    They themselves came up with, they themselves endowed with power almost equal to God and put in counterbalance?
    Why "Satan" and not "babayka" or else "do not understand" who, from our childhood fears?

    The first 60-70 years of its existence, the Holy Inquisition fought against heresy and only with heresy.
    Only in the middle of the XNUMXth century did Thomas Aquinas establish that devilish magic was possible, and equated sorcerers with heretics.
    The circumstances required a complex logical exercise from the Church.
    It consisted of nothing more than a proof of the very existence of witches and sorcerers. Moreover, to prove this fact was required so as not to drop the authority of the church fathers with St. Augustine at the head, who at one time did not recognize either folk magic, or levitation, or even the possibility of copulation of a person with the devil and the appearance of the fruits of this cohabitation.
    The church emerged from the predicament with brilliance, creating even for its intricate purposes a whole science - "scholasticism", with the help of which it began to persistently convince the illiterate public without exception of the existence of demons that originated from the cohabitation of man with the devil, and malicious witches who, having entered conspiracy with the "splendid" - "Lucifer" himself, they ruin people, bring sterility to women, and impotence to men, damage livestock and crops, and poison honorable citizens with various poisons.
    Europeans inexperienced in scholasticism could not oppose anything to the nonsense that filled churches and squares, palaces and shacks. Fears of the mysterious powers of sorcerers and witches grew into panic fear of acquaintances, neighbors and simply onlookers - any of them could turn out to be a servant of the "devil", speak, jinx, and damage.
    the "devil" became a reality and could be hiding nearby.
    Superstitious horror caused mass psychosis

    http://www.psygorodok.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=483
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 2 November 2013 23: 18
    +3
    Quote: Novik
    But who is the devil?
    And the devil is:
    just a prosecutor, a servant of God


    Why do people themselves empower Satan, which he did not have and should not have at all
    Then, why did they come up with God - trying to explain the inexplicable.
    And over time, especially spiritual ones began to earn on this.

    Why "Satan" and not "babayka" or else "do not understand" who, from our childhood fears?
    Because adults are not afraid of children's horror stories.
  • Day 11
    Day 11 2 November 2013 23: 25
    +2
    Maybe even now gentlemen, the moderators will miss my post? Although ... on their conscience. Iblis is his name (the devil, Satan --- in our opinion)
  • alone
    alone 2 November 2013 23: 41
    +3
    Quote: Den 11
    Maybe even now gentlemen, the moderators will miss my post? Although ... on their conscience. Iblis is his name (the devil, Satan --- in our opinion)


    if the moderators are honest, then tomorrow morning when I go to the site, in principle, I should see that 50% of the comments should be deleted due to the incitement of inter-religious conflict.
  • stroporez
    stroporez 3 November 2013 12: 30
    +2
    Quote: Den 11
    .Iblis his name (the devil, Satan --- in our opinion)
    I read the research of one theosophist, I do not remember the name but for sure --- originally from northern Italy. So, until the 6th century, the word "Satan" itself does not occur anywhere in Christian texts
  • Maks111
    Maks111 2 November 2013 18: 28
    +7
    for example, deuteronomy:

    "destroy evil from among you"

    For understanding, the Christian has no tolerance for Evil, in this regard he is a Warrior - he will fight and even fight against evil wherever possible and necessary.
    Notice, you said correctly, against EVIL, and not a person. HATE SIN, BUT LOVE A SINNER.
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 2 November 2013 19: 31
    +5
    Quote: Max111
    Notice, you said correctly, against EVIL, and not a person. HATE SIN, BUT LOVE A SINNER.

    And it’s really very humane.

    But then - of course solely out of love for a man - the idea arises to bang this man in order to save his immortal soul, since, in the opinion of a loving man, he sins too much or is generally with the devil.
  • Maks111
    Maks111 2 November 2013 18: 28
    0
    for example, deuteronomy:

    "destroy evil from among you"

    For understanding, the Christian has no tolerance for Evil, in this regard he is a Warrior - he will fight and even fight against evil wherever possible and necessary.
    Notice, you said correctly, against EVIL, and not a person. HATE SIN, BUT LOVE A SINNER.
  • I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 2 November 2013 16: 31
    +4
    "The Koran also says everything for the world."

    Lying. Read it yourself -
    "Fight with them until unbelief disappears and faith in Allah is established. If they renounce unbelief, then there should be no enmity except towards the wicked." (Sura 2, 190-193). Muslims have no right to end the war in non-Muslims until Islam as the dominant religion is established on earth Temporary truce - yes, but permanent peace with the unbelievers is treason to Allah.

    There is no compulsion in faith: if you do not want to be a Muslim, die or become a slave "
    1. alone
      alone 2 November 2013 19: 38
      -2
      You interpret the word as you understand. You can fight with thoughts, ideas, and deeds! you interpret this surah as Wahhabis. Are you a Wahhabi by accident? laughing
    2. duke
      duke 2 November 2013 22: 28
      +1
      Yes, in my opinion, he does not interpret anything, he only quotes where it is clearly and clearly said with whom it is supposed to fight.
    3. alone
      alone 2 November 2013 23: 12
      -2
      Quote: duke
      Yes, in my opinion, he does not interpret anything, he only quotes where it is clearly and clearly said with whom it is supposed to fight.


      in order to clearly understand, one must perfectly know the Arabic language. each translates as he understands, and this is why such a mess
    4. Revolver
      Revolver 3 November 2013 10: 24
      +3
      Quote: lonely
      in order to clearly understand, one must perfectly know the Arabic language. each translates as he understands, and this is why such a mess

      I'm afraid that an understanding like yours, that is (hopefully) moderate and not militant, does not have much demand among Muslims, and Wahhabism, on the contrary, does.
      [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24468337]
      At this address there is an article about the New York imam who had (stupidity, courage, to emphasize, otherwise - enter ___________) to establish relations with Christian and - horror - Jewish communities. Since he is a certified imam, he certainly read the Koran in Arabic, and even memorized it by heart, and he is not familiar with the interpretations of the sages of Islam. So part of the parishioners and, most importantly, the leadership of the mosque decided that it was inappropriate behavior for a Muslim, especially an imam, and kicked him out of the mosque. The article is in English, but even computer translation will help to understand the main ideas.
    5. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 3 November 2013 14: 20
      +2
      Quote: lonely
      Quote: duke
      Yes, in my opinion, he does not interpret anything, he only quotes where it is clearly and clearly said with whom it is supposed to fight.


      in order to clearly understand, one must perfectly know the Arabic language. each translates as he understands, and this is why such a mess


      Dialogue with oneself. (1) affirming and 2 (aka 1) evaluating.
  • I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 3 November 2013 15: 02
    +1
    Quote: lonely
    you interpret as you understand


    what nonsense?

    "to understand clearly, one must be fluent in Arabic."
    Knowing Arabic to translate the Quran is not enough. Read what the Alim of Dagestan say about the literal translation of the Koran.

    sura ... translation ... interpretation ...
  • I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 3 November 2013 15: 08
    +2
    Quote: I am a Russian
    sura ... translation ... interpretation ...


    Sura 2 ayah193

    Koran: وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلَّهِ ۖ فَإِنِ انْتَهَوْا فَلَا عُدْوَانَ إِلَّا عَلَى الَىاِ

    عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَKuliev: Fight with them until the temptation disappears and until the religion is entirely devoted to Allah. But if they stop, then they should only be at war with the wicked.
    Osmanov: Fight with them until disbelief disappears and faith in Allah is established. If they renounce unbelief, then there should be no enmity, except for the wicked.
    Al azhar: Fight them until they stop persecuting you and until the religion of Allah conquers. All religion belongs to only one Allah. If they believe in Allah and escape from punishment, then there is no need to fight them, and there should be no enmity, except for the unrighteous who commit sins and do injustice.
  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 2 November 2013 14: 33
    +7
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    In the Qur'an, too, everything for the world is written. But the seeker will find the reason. And there, and she is full of reservations.

    Yes, exactly, in the Koran everything is for "peace"
    Quotes from the Qur'an:

    points
    "Fight with those who do not believe in Allah ...".

    points
    "And when you meet those who disbelieve, then - a blow to the neck with a sword."

    points
    “Enmity began between us and you forever, until you believe in Allah
    one. "

    points
    “Beat the polytheists wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, ambush them in any hidden place!”

    points
    "... if they turn away, then grab them and kill them, wherever they find them."

    points
    “You are our master, help us against the unfaithful people!”

    (8:39) (2: 193) "And fight them until there is no more temptation, and all religion belongs to Allah."

    points
    “If they fight with you, then kill them: such is the recompense of the infidels!”

    points
    "So your Lord inspired the angels:" ... hit them (unbelievers) on the necks, hit them on all fingers! "

    points
    “And decent women are awestruck [...] And those whose disobedience you fear, exhort and leave them on the boxes and hit them.”

    (2: 282) “And take two of your men as witnesses.” And if there are no two men, then a man and two women ... ”
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 2 November 2013 14: 46
      +1
      We found out long ago that you didn’t see the Quran in your eyes, but found quotes on the Internet.
      1. Warrawar
        Warrawar 2 November 2013 15: 15
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        We found out long ago that you didn’t see the Quran in your eyes, but found quotes on the Internet.

        But you saw him.
      2. Basileus
        Basileus 2 November 2013 18: 38
        +8
        Unlike bydlonatsikov, I do not go into those issues that I do not understand.
      3. I am a Russian
        I am a Russian 5 November 2013 08: 34
        -1
        Quote: Basileus
        I don’t get into those issues that I don’t understand.


        do not climb correctly ... be quiet gopot.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 2 November 2013 22: 41
    +7
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    In the Qur'an, too, everything for the world is written.
    But these surahs, are they also for peace?
    2 (191). And kill them [the infidels], wherever you meet them, expel them from the places from which they expelled you, because for them delusion is worse than death at your fingertips.

    2 (193). Fight with them until disbelief disappears and faith in Allah is established. If they cease [to be unfaithful], then there should be no hostility, except to the wicked.

    3 (28). Believers may not be friends with unbelievers besides believers. And if someone is friends with unbelievers, then he will not deserve any reward from Allah, except when you are in danger from them.

    3 (85). If anyone chooses a religion other than Islam, then such behavior will not be approved, and in a future life he will be among the victims.

    5 (33). Verily, those who fight against Allah and His Messenger and commit wickedness on earth will be killed in retribution, or crucified, or their arms and legs cut off from them, or they will be driven out of the country. And all [this] for them is a great shame in this world, and in the next life [awaits] their great punishment.

    8 (12). [Remember, Muhammad] how your Lord inspired the angels [sent to help the Muslims]: Verily, I am with you. So give support to those who believe! I sow fear in the hearts of those who did not believe. So chop off their heads and chop off all the fingers. [in revenge] for avoiding obedience to Allah and His Messenger. If anyone shies away from obeying Allah and His Messenger, then Allah is strong in punishment.

    You at least sometimes look in the primary sources before making such global statements.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 November 2013 09: 29
      +2
      Quote: Nagan
      You at least sometimes look in the primary sources before making such global statements.

      I have the Koran at home in the translation of Valeria Prokhorova, and the Bible also exists, and I periodically read them. And if you engage in pulling out phrases, and in the Bible you can pick out unmeasured.
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 3 November 2013 11: 34
      +4
      Have you ever looked at the source

      It's funny to hear this from a person who is familiar with the original source only from the quotes he quoted. Anyone who is familiar with both the original source and the history of religions would not publish a translation in which the word "infidels" is present. Or at least indicated in what sense this word is used in the Quran.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 2 November 2013 13: 29
    15
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Read the Bible and find at least a line that says that you need to fight and kill.

    Happy Saturday morning, Sanya!
    And fig something to look for - just take the book in your left hand, the trunk in your right and start to wet everyone in the name of the holy scripture of those who do not perceive it! This has been done since the birth of all religions.
    For me, religion is one of the instruments to keep people in check, the most effective way to influence both individuals and their community, which can be used to gain and maintain power, nothing more.
    1. Atash
      Atash 6 November 2013 08: 43
      0
      A naive ignorant point of view, no offense. In matters of religion, we are all ignorant - the consequences of atheistic education.
  • Russkiy_Prapor
    Russkiy_Prapor 2 November 2013 15: 52
    +8
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Read the Bible and find at least a line that says that you need to fight and kill.


    “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword, for I came to divide a man with his father and a daughter with her mother, and a daughter-in-law with her mother-in-law. And the enemies of man are his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and whoever loves a son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who does not take up his cross and follows me, is not worthy of me. He who has saved his soul will lose it; but he who has lost his soul for my sake will save it ”(Mat.10: 34-39) In fact, it is obvious to everyone who reads the Bible unbiasedly (that is, without preliminarily imposed and inculcated attitudes on him) that God opposes evil and defeats it . Both with the help of the physical sword, and with the help of the spiritual sword, which is the Word of God. I think that in the Qur'an you can find similar lines. And then you turn on the flight of imagination, add political and economic interests, and now a new crusade is ready.
    1. Maks111
      Maks111 2 November 2013 18: 32
      -1
      This is where it is written in the Bible, that with a physical sword?
    2. duke
      duke 2 November 2013 23: 40
      +2
      Well, and how did you find in the above verses calls for violence, murder? Share ... The point is that Christians, especially the first ones, were not really accepted by their homeworkers ... but let me remind you that Christians went to death, often martyrdom, but did not declare any jihad, did not call to kill infidels, like Jews and the Gentiles and asked God to forgive their executioners - for they don’t understand what they are doing ... All the apostles, except John the Theologian, were killed, but there is no evidence of their calls for a war for faith and other actions. The sermon was purely peaceful, and not with a sword, as you put it, physical ...
      1. Atash
        Atash 6 November 2013 08: 57
        +1
        "I did not bring peace to you, but a sword" This is just the same about Christian jihad, the struggle for faith. Religion is truth; truth must have enemies. Otherwise, no truth, no religion would be needed. Fighting for faith meant fighting the enemies of God, not the followers of his other prophets (peace be upon them all).
    3. Atash
      Atash 6 November 2013 08: 51
      0
      Yes, Anna Karenina describes the patriotic clamor during the war with the Ottomans, in particular the discussion about Christian peace. Tolstoy was always embarrassed by this passage in the Bible: "I did not bring peace to you, but a sword."
  • Warrawar
    Warrawar 2 November 2013 14: 28
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The Crusaders also interpreted the Bible with a sword in their hands.

    The Crusaders were in the 12th century, and now 21 ...
    1. skeptic-
      skeptic- 2 November 2013 16: 52
      +9
      Quote: Warrawar
      The Crusaders were in the 12th century, and now 21 ...


      Well, that’s right - the Crusaders are at 12, and now on the contrary, the Crusaders are at 21. Apparently so.

      Reverse however. Only the former "crusaders", by hook or by crook, are trying to incite the Muslims against those who did not go on them with crusades. It is no coincidence that all extremist currents of Islam were born during the beginning of the colonial conquests of the Anglo-Saxons. The main idea - "divide and conquer" has long been the ideological weapon of the Anglo-Saxon mafia. It is no coincidence that Islamic extremists kill their fellow believers and climb wherever the "watching" Emirs (at the behest of the West) move them with tales of the "world caliphate."

      And religion, for the forces of Evil, is just a tool that, in dark hands, can pervert the very essence of the world, and then death is presented as the truth of "good" and "religious bark beetles" begin to think that their activity in the destruction of the world is orthodox, like death the whole civilization.
  • Maks111
    Maks111 2 November 2013 18: 22
    +1
    The Crusaders also interpreted the Bible with a sword in their hands
    Catholic eritiks are not Christians.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 2 November 2013 19: 50
      +1
      Quote: Max111
      Catholic eritiks are not Christians.

      And they think the same thing about you - who is right?
    2. kaktus
      kaktus 2 November 2013 19: 51
      +2
      catholics, heretics negative
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 2 November 2013 20: 59
        +3
        Quote: kaktus
        catholics, heretics

        Smart justification of their own beliefs laughing

        PS Will we burn?
        1. kaktus
          kaktus 3 November 2013 19: 37
          0
          No, just put two on the Russian language and history
  • ramin_serg
    ramin_serg 2 November 2013 12: 49
    -10 qualifying.
    As Christians, only the Crusades are worth anything + just that the calls for persecution of Muslims are not this an extremist interpretation of the Bible and laws
    1. Abracadabra
      Abracadabra 2 November 2013 17: 24
      +2
      But according to the facts, in Muslim countries a church is burned, Christians are killed, and in Christian Muslims they not only do not touch, but even they build mosques. Christianity at one time also reached a golem of obscurantism, but Martin Luther appeared and since then the church has ceased to stick its nose in all affairs and control everything. Muslims also need their own, Muslim Martin Luther, who could reform Islam, expel Islam from politics, open Muslim eyes to all false preachers who spread hatred and obscurantism.
    2. Maks111
      Maks111 2 November 2013 18: 36
      +1
      As Christians, only the Crusades are worth anything + just that the calls for persecution of Muslims are not this an extremist interpretation of the Bible and laws
      You are sick of lying !!!! Catholics are NOT CHRISTIANS !!! On us Christians) Orthodox-true) were also crusades. And just enough just to take up the Crusades! If there are no other arguments, just say so! Well, since we are talking about the Crusades, then look at the reasons for the 1st Crusade!
      1. Abracadabra
        Abracadabra 2 November 2013 22: 48
        -1
        Why are Catholics not Christians? The Crusades were the obscurantism of kings and popes, religion was only used to mobilize the population. But today the "red cross", "Maltez union", etc. help, feed, treat millions of people around the world, even in Russia, in the 90s they fed and helped. Both Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Protestants have the same rules by which they must live, these are the covenants of Christ. Only the top of the ROC does not adhere to them, serves the authorities and loves luxury and does not allow such real ones as the priest Pavel Adelheim, the kingdom of heaven to him, into the leadership of the ROC.
      2. duke
        duke 2 November 2013 23: 01
        +2
        Max, do not get excited, of course, Catholics are Christians, and the Orthodox Church has one of the names - kapholikos - i.e. world, universal (Greek). Our disagreements arise because of false Catholic dogmas, such as the infallibility of the Pope, that the Pope is the deputy of God, and so on. which is unacceptable for us, because Of course, God cannot have any governors, because Christ said: "I am with you, all the days, until the end of the age." And the Pope is only the "senior" Bishop of the Church, like the Patriarch, which is basically the same thing. But Catholics are Christians and their Church, although damaged, is still Christian ...
        1. de_monSher
          de_monSher 3 November 2013 00: 42
          0
          But the Catholics are Christians and their Church, although damaged, is still Christian ...


          Ghy ... *))) it's funny to read your posts, if only a word. I have a lot of familiar Evangelists in Kharkov = something like Pentecostals like =. In general, out of curiosity, I was like their services, communicated with adults and children. With their preachers, Pastor. In general, we got into a conversation with the latter, and I asked - "Okay, there are a bunch of confessions, even Christian ones. Congregations. And now there is your Church. Well, how is your church different from the rest?" Well, the Pastor tried to answer me allegorically, like "Here I am, I took train tickets, I'm waiting for my friends at the station, but they are late! ..". Then I realized that he wanted to give a speech, for three hours, and absolutely senseless, and resisted. Gru - "Sorry! I understand everything - you are an eloquent person. But ... we are not married for the first time, and between us girls, shortly and without frills - how are you different from all the others ?!" He lowered his eyes and said - "We pray to God, and all the rest to the demon." "Even Orthodox, Catholics ?! Okay, I am a Muslim!" "Yes" - he answered me.

          In general, I read your ghyyyyy ... "thoughts", and before my eyes this Pastor ... *)))) You are funny ... all look the same, even though you pray to different demons ... oh, Gods ... *)))))
          1. de_monSher
            de_monSher 3 November 2013 01: 06
            -1
            Yes, so as not to cling to my words with this -

            even though you pray to different demons ... oh Gods ...


            Here you are, the person who wants to sow discord between people, pray to demons and are obsessed with pride ... *)) And you can memorize the whole Bible, as well as all the Gospels, including the Apocrypha, however you will not cease to be obsessed with the Devil ... *))) Ghee ...

            The same to me, experts ... theologians ... Tfu, plaque-fly, dirty tricks, they also get clever after all ... *))
      3. The comment was deleted.
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            2. Timeout
              Timeout 3 November 2013 03: 56
              +4
              What is happening on the streets of the central cities, mass prayers and ram runs are entirely the fault of the authorities, and the Russians themselves, who themselves allowed what they call "sacrificial rams". You will not notice this in the outback, all the newcomers sit like mice under a broom, but again, this is only where one can say autocracy in the form of heads of village councils and the people know who to tear their heads off. And the districts and regions where non-Russians organize their diasporas, it is clear that all officials, starting from the governors, are simply fed.
            3. Timeout
              Timeout 3 November 2013 08: 46
              +2
              Again, the modernists rubbed their comments ... The Topvar campaign has its own views on religion ... And most importantly, they rubbed what the clergy themselves do not deny, who truly believe, and do not stuff their pockets and cassocks with parishioners' money! And I wouldn't be surprised if quotes later appear in an article by an unknown author. It has been noticed by the administration more than once!
            4. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 3 November 2013 08: 53
              +1
              Quote: Timeout
              Again, the moderators have lost comments ...

              For you!!!
              g) It is forbidden to add articles from third-party sites in the comments, as this contradicts the purpose of the commenting function: comments on the site are intended solely for readers to express their own opinions regarding published articles. At the same time, reasonable citation of materials from other sites is allowed within the framework of one comment with a mandatory link to the source. For inserting whole articles from third-party resources into comments (“comments with continuation”) - deleting all user comments and zeroing the rating;
            5. Timeout
              Timeout 3 November 2013 09: 50
              +1
              Alexander, I certainly understand that it was as if they were following the letter of the law. Again, there are a lot of similar comments, not that much, but a lot. And for some reason you don't overwrite them. And I just answered the person's question, and provided a quote so that nothing would be taken out of context. And then it gets wrong several times. Indeed, it has been noticed more than once behind the Topvar administration that the moderators give preference according to their own personal standards. If you consider your resource to be apolitical and non-religious, be it. And it is worth remembering that there are a little more than 20% of Orthodox Christians in Russia, and our church is separated from the state. And if not, then write that the resource is pro-Putin and Orthodox, and do not accept anything else! Well, plagiarism on the resource has already become the norm, for granted. You can ban, set warnings, but unfortunately the resource has slipped into a banal shit about anything in which you are moderators yourself. And it turns out that you can overwrite it as if you are following the letter of the rules, in reality it turns out that it simply does not agree with your personal opinion. This is already very sad!
            6. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 3 November 2013 09: 57
              +1
              Quote: Timeout
              Again, such comments, not that much, but very much.

              Yes, today I have already deleted five pieces. Is it really so difficult to insert a link to a resource?
              Quote: Timeout
              . And it turns out that you can wipe as if you are following the letter of the rules, in reality it turns out it just does not agree with your personal opinion

              I don’t like many comments, but that’s no reason to delete them.
            7. Timeout
              Timeout 3 November 2013 10: 19
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Is it so hard to insert a link to a resource?


              To a resource? There was a link, but an attempt to change the comment from the first time threw into error! And the link is here! http://cywir.livejournal.com/1468.html Well, about quoting verses from the Bible in whole chapters, I will keep silent ...
  • duke
    duke 2 November 2013 22: 25
    +6
    For information, during one of the "crusades", it seems, as for the liberation of the Holy Sepulcher, i.e. Jerusalem, Orthodox Byzantium was taken, destroyed and plundered by the papists. As far as I know, Orthodox Crusades were not practiced. For example, such dubious orders as the Templars participated in such campaigns.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 3 November 2013 08: 49
      -1
      Byzantium, for your information, the Seljuk Turks conquered and plundered ...
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 November 2013 09: 38
      +2
      Quote: duke
      .As far as I know, Orthodox Crusades were not practiced.

      And the capture of Rome by Belisarius?
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic 2 November 2013 11: 33
    26
    As far as I know, any person, even an unbeliever or of another faith, can calmly go into the same Orthodox church, if he does not violate generally accepted measures of behavior, no one will say a word and drive him away. It is enough for a man to bare his head and a woman to put on a scarf. There are people who do not even get baptized at the entrance. I don’t know whether it is possible in a mosque or in a synagogue. I have not tried it myself. Then in Orthodoxy and Christianity, if you have decided to devote yourself to religious life and the spiritual struggle for faith and want to lead a life in accordance with religious laws, there are monasteries and religious communities for this, which do not impose on everyone else their rules of conduct and hostel, as supporters of radical Islam do . No one creates monastic Orthodox orders (Catholic Europe survived this in the Middle Ages), doesn’t declare a holy war for faith, doesn’t blow people up and cut off his head unfaithful. I recalled how I went for inquiries to the regional regpalat which was near Poklonnaya Gora. There was always it’s a wild turn and with nothing to do walked around Poklonnka, So the doors to the Orthodox church are open, no guards at least imperceptibly. People come in and not only of Slavic appearance. And during the service. The entrance to the mosque was also open, but it was explained to me that during the prayer, it is better for a non-Muslim who does not take part in prayer not to go there. Better yet, visit a mosque only with a familiar Muslim, so that there are no excesses, and which will tell you how to behave (do not forget to take off your shoes for example). Near the synagogue, a submachine gunner patrolled and the desire to come up immediately disappeared. I didn’t want to search and check my briefcase. Why did the Islamists want to impose their rules and force ALL TO LIVE ON THE MEDIEVAL WILD SHARIAT.?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 11: 44
      16
      Quote: Ascetic
      Why do the Islamists want to impose their rules and force ALL to LIVE according to the Medieval Wild Sharia.?

      Because they put their “I” above others. Because they spit on the cultures and laws of other nations.
      But it is known that when they come to visit, they do not establish their laws. Otherwise, the guest will get a kick in the ass.
      1. Maks111
        Maks111 2 November 2013 18: 39
        -1
        Because they put their “I” above others. Because they spit on the cultures and laws of other nations.
        But it is known that when they come to visit, they do not establish their laws. Otherwise, the guest will get a kick in the ass.
        No, you're wrong. Because the father of their (Muslims) devil, here he is forcing them to fulfill his will to eradicate Christianity.
    2. Ascetic
      Ascetic 2 November 2013 11: 48
      13
      Net Islam as Islam which is called moderate almost everywhere began to be interpreted and taught how desire to restore the past,those. as it was during the time of the Prophet, i.e. Caliphate. In their sermons, the imams claim that life worsened all the time and further, it will also roll downhill. If you do not return to the sources of the Prophet and the Righteous Caliphs and live according to their medieval laws, then there will be happiness and peace for everyone. For their followers, not only the purpose of life lies in the past, but they are ready to go to their goal using armed struggle and forced imposition of an “Islamic” way of life. In this they differ from moderate Muslims, since the latter rely on preaching, a peaceful appeal (calling for the same regressive understanding of history). Therefore, where a moderate Muslim, upon hearing the ringing of church bells, even frowns, but passes, a radical Muslim will go to collect the bomb to detonate it, restore the correct course of history in the form in which he imagines it.
      From the psychological point of view, with such an upbringing, the following happens to a person: convinced that the best is in the past and accustomed to rejecting the present, he, having no hopes for a better life in a secular future, is deprived of any motivation for his existence in this the world now. It remains for him either to vegetate in the nonsense surrounding him, or to join the ranks of the "holy warriors of jihad" in order to fight the existing reality. This is for him. the only way, if you don’t restore the ideal past, is to earn God's grace with your self-sacrifice and, finally, earn paradise. It is in this hopeless despair of a person who has lost, or rather, never knew the meaning of existence in this world, that the sources of all kinds of perversions with an Islamic appearance lie. It is this who is used by huge money-fed new-found preachers in prayer houses looking for supporters in the midst of masses dissatisfied with their social situation of Muslims of the whole world and use them for purposes far from building universal Islamic happiness.
      1. Normal
        Normal 2 November 2013 17: 45
        0
        Quote: Ascetic
        From the psychological point of view, with such an upbringing, the following happens to a person: convinced that the best is in the past and accustomed to rejecting the present, he, having no hopes for a better life in a secular future, is deprived of any motivation for his existence in this the world now. It remains for him either to vegetate in the nonsense surrounding him, or to join the ranks of the "holy warriors of jihad" in order to fight the existing reality. This is the only way for him, if he does not restore the ideal past, then at least by his self-sacrifice to win God's mercy, and, finally, to earn paradise.

        As always convincing and ... But what to do, Stanislav? What can we oppose this? How do we counteract what you described? Where is the solution?
    3. andruha70
      andruha70 2 November 2013 13: 49
      +2
      I don’t know whether it is possible in a mosque or in a synagogue. I have not tried it myself.
      I won’t say about the synagogue, I don’t know ... about the TRUE Muslim mosque I will say
      any person can calmly come in, even an unbeliever or of another faith, if he does not violate generally accepted measures of behavior, no one will say a word and drive away
      personally came in. I will say more, for the TRUE Muslim-TRUE Christian-BROTHER! and even a true atheist (like me repeat ) is also not an enemy.
      1. old rocket man
        old rocket man 3 November 2013 01: 03
        0
        Quote: andruha70
        -for the TRUE Muslim-TRUE Christian-BROTHER! and even a true atheist (as I feel) is also not an enemy.

        Sounds like a song.
        You should have put a stamp on your forehead so that you can immediately see who is true and who needs to be afraid laughing
    4. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz 2 November 2013 15: 32
      +2
      Quote: Ascetic
      I don’t know whether it is possible in a mosque or in a synagogue. I have not tried it myself.
  • bolonenkov
    bolonenkov 2 November 2013 15: 40
    -1
    What is wrong with the things of a person who is loved and respected all over the world come to Dagestan?
    Holy relics, crosses, icons, too, revel
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • HollyGremlin
    HollyGremlin 2 November 2013 17: 41
    +4
    In the 20th century, man successfully began to explore space, genetics, and nuclear physics. As a result, religions were dealt a crushing blow. As a result, the "top" wavered and fell. It is a pity to look at these spiritual men in luxurious golden robes with clocks, cars, locks. They turned religion into a way to make money. The emergence of Pastafarianism perfectly illustrates this. Religions in their present form are living out their last years, and therefore convulsions such as Wahhabism appear.
  • Ahmed Osmanov
    Ahmed Osmanov 2 November 2013 20: 28
    +7
    Why do you think that Christian relics can be brought in, but Islamic relics cannot? From the fact that people go to look at the relics, they will not become radicals or militants. As soon as the topic comes about Islam, it gets 200 or more comments, "experts" of Islam immediately appear.
    And in general, excuse me, of course, but as I read comments related to Islamic topics, it seems that Christians know more about Islam than Muslims themselves: they cite some passages from the Koran, and what is the strangest thing is that I see these passages all over the Internet. They are given to us as an example that Islam is a religion of evil. The same passages all the time. It seems that before answering the user goes to Google and enters into the search: "Islam is the religion of evil." And the search engine gives you what you want.
    Recently, the site "Military Review" publishes many religious topics, mainly about Islam (negative). In conclusion, I would like to say that you yourself are imposing negative views on Islam. Please understand me, because what I see at the moment touches my feelings and I wanted to write in defense of traditional Islam, which I did. Yours faithfully!
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 3 November 2013 09: 43
      +1
      Quote: Akhmed Osmanov
      Recently, the site "Military Review" publishes many religious topics, mainly about Islam (negative).

      The site only reflects the mood in society.
  • bolonenkov
    bolonenkov 3 November 2013 12: 30
    +2
    Do you happen to confuse museum exhibits with idolatry?
    Why should Muslims not love their prophet and not want to look at his personal belongings or hair, for example?
  • yurii p
    yurii p 3 November 2013 22: 45
    +1
    it’s not the religion, but the orientation of this religion, Wahhabism was originally aimed at the destruction of Russia, but if there is another religion, suppose Nazism that we need to separate these religions and each one should be accepted in a special way, there is no need to perceive each THREAT adequately, that Wahhabism is what Nazism, the last game of Spartak and Shinnik confirms that Russia is on the verge of Nazism so it is necessary to deal with these threats and cheers with patriotism can not be fixed, only access to power and pressure can affect something.
  • bolonenkov
    bolonenkov 5 November 2013 08: 05
    0
    Who worshiped the things of the prophet? You do not confuse museum exhibits and idols ??
  • catapractic
    catapractic 2 November 2013 11: 50
    +4
    this is not enough, it is not just necessary to drive out the potential basis of the Islamists. It is necessary to strengthen the border and interact with Kazakhstan in this area. And most importantly, it is necessary to provoke a great war in the Arab world, so that the Saudis and Qatari do not have enough forces for Russia.
    1. skeptic-
      skeptic- 2 November 2013 17: 33
      +7
      Quote: cataphractium
      this is not enough, it is not just necessary to drive out the potential basis of the Islamists.


      I am not a supporter of Islam, but to expel the potential basis of Islamists i.e. Do you refuse Muslims homeland?

      An extremist appendix masquerading as ISLAM must be uprooted. Orthodox Christians, for centuries lived side by side with Muslims, respecting each other's faith. And the strength of Russia in the unity of all peoples, with their shortcomings and advantages.

      But in general, your comment, especially the interaction with a country where Islam, far from an alien religion, to expel the potential basis of the Islamists, looks (as it were softer), well, strange, or something. Yes, and calls for provocations, more like an attempt to tap the vile feelings of foolish people than the speech of an adequate person. So, take it easy, but alas ... request
  • duke
    duke 2 November 2013 12: 18
    13
    the name is a Russian caliphate - in itself an absurdity, if you converted to Islam, then it’s not Russian anymore, then you renounced Christ, your Russian, Christian name, clan and people, no longer became Ivan or Peter, but some kind of Abdullah. And the fact that the Russian physiognomy has remained, is not called a spacesuit, but a human being inside it, is it so? So here, then the human soul has changed. All the ancestors in the tombs will roll over. I had occasion to communicate with a former Muslim, a completely normal person, he was baptized. When I asked why he did this, he said, I felt ashamed after Beslan, for all these atrocities against children, for which no one apologized and did not apologize. The Nazis did this and everyone still talks about it. And here it seems as if some aliens arrived who have neither nationality nor religion. They have both nationality and religion !!!
    Before the revolution in Russia, the name itself was Russian and meant Orthodox and many Orthodox peoples did not hesitate to call themselves Russian. If we are talking about migrants not just living here, but trying to build a caliphate here, then in this case there is the Spanish term reconquista !!! There are no creeping invaders on our land !!!
    1. Thirteenth
      Thirteenth 2 November 2013 13: 25
      0
      Muslim is not a nationality
      1. catapractic
        catapractic 2 November 2013 19: 49
        +2
        a man rushes from the Nazis to the Islamists ...
        1. kaktus
          kaktus 3 November 2013 20: 23
          +1
          it would be better to work
    2. catapractic
      catapractic 2 November 2013 15: 30
      0
      they apparently drew an analogy with the Cordoba caliphate. Only to hell with the device, we are not Europe (at least not quite and not completely), the tolerant buggers are a bit dull.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 2 November 2013 12: 55
    0
    What do you think they will do after being expelled in their Wahhabi Central Asia, millions of healthy young men without work. What will be grown in the fields and where to lead the "harvest". Will they buy weapons with the proceeds. What will the series of "revolutions" in Central Asia be called, and which embassy will the winners flee to? Who will be appointed as the main enemy of the Muslims. Will our guys die on the southern border of Kazakhstan? Will the number of terrorist attacks in Russia increase? When will it end and how. May think about another solution to the problem.
    1. kaktus
      kaktus 2 November 2013 13: 14
      +9
      1. Have healthy men tried to work? What is happening now in Central Asia, where did these "workers" leave from? Everything is probably falling apart to the medieval level .. Or simply: "My name is Mirza, I do not need to work ..."
      2. There are still enough problems with this contingent, their caliphates, emirates ... let them build in their "independent" states.
      3. The Russian-speaking population must be evacuated from there. IMHO
      1. Starfish
        Starfish 2 November 2013 13: 31
        +6
        "The Russian-speaking population must be evacuated from there."

        It’s high time, because at any time they may find themselves in the position of Russian Chechnya in the 90s. it was necessary to spend money on this, and not on olympiads and nano-splinters.
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 2 November 2013 13: 40
      +4
      Quote: chunga-changa
      What do you think, what will they do after their expulsion in their Wahhabi Central Asia, millions of healthy young men without work.

      These are the problems of the authorities of their republics.
      Quote: chunga-changa
      What will be grown in the fields

      This question is for their ministries of agriculture.
      Quote: chunga-changa
      and where to lead the "harvest".

      This one is for the ministries of trade and transport.
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Will they buy weapons with the proceeds?

      This one is for their police and police.
      Quote: chunga-changa
      What will be called a series of "revolutions" in Central Asia

      Absolutely to the lantern, as they call them!
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Will our guys die on the southern border of Kazakhstan. Will the number of terrorist attacks in Russia increase.

      They will, if you do not attend to the arrangement of this border.
      Quote: chunga-changa
      When will it all end and how.

      Due to the fact that we have no problems with cartridges and shells, thank God, I can say that everything will end with a sharp decrease in the population of the above-mentioned SA republics. When? This will depend on the determination of our authorities. To defend their territory, I really hope they have enough spirit.
      1. kaktus
        kaktus 2 November 2013 15: 15
        +2
        That's right! good
    3. Warrawar
      Warrawar 2 November 2013 15: 37
      +2
      Quote: chunga-changa
      What do you think, what will they do after their expulsion in their Wahhabi Central Asia, millions of healthy young men without work

      I personally do not care

      Quote: chunga-changa
      What will be grown in the fields and where to lead the "harvest"

      Let them drive anywhere, but not to us. We, for this occasion, will block the border for them.

      Quote: chunga-changa
      Will they buy weapons with the proceeds. What will be called a series of "revolutions" in Central Asia

      Endless feuds in these parts, a very good option. It’s just what they’ll find, they’ll cut each other, instead of fixing chaos on the streets of Russian cities.
      1. andruha70
        andruha70 2 November 2013 19: 50
        +6
        Endless feuds in these parts, a very good option. It’s just what they’ll find, they’ll cut each other, instead of fixing chaos on the streets of Russian cities.
        excuse me ............. if you talk like that fool first, they will cut each other, then several million Russian speakers living in Central Asia ... and then they will trample on Russia. but the solution to the problem is very simple. create enterprises, joint production, agricultural holdings in the territory of the CA. firstly: cheap labor (a salary of $ 300 in the SA is equivalent to $ 1000 in Russia. If Central Asia receives $ 300, then he won't even think about a trip to Russia) secondly : why the heck you "chemical" Polish, Portuguese, Argentinean "tomatoes and cucumbers" for euros and dollars, when (with a skillful approach) all these-NATURAL products can provide Central Asia. in the third: for everything produced, you will not have to pay in euros and dollars, but only in rubles, and this is a plus for the Russian currency. and I assure you, all the migrant workers, pull back, and moreover, some Russians will also come ... in vain, perhaps, under Soviet rule, the population of Central Asian cities was 60-80% Russian-speaking nationalities. for "special "minusovalschikov I explain - how do you want? Russia-EMPIRE-was, is, and will be! means, and "habits" should be IMPERIAL!
        1. Warrawar
          Warrawar 2 November 2013 21: 18
          -1
          Quote: andruha70
          first, they will cut each other, then several million Russian speakers living in Central Asia

          there is no difference between a "Russian-speaking" Asian and just an Asian

          Quote: andruha70
          and then trample on Russia

          And let the rod, machine-gun crews will meet them at the border.


          Quote: andruha70
          But the solution to the problem is very simple. create enterprises, joint production, agricultural holdings in the territory of CA.

          All this needs to be developed in their own country.
          1. andruha70
            andruha70 2 November 2013 22: 15
            +2
            there is no difference between a "Russian-speaking" Asian and just an Asian
            and the differences between the Russian-speaking Russian, Ukrainian or Tatar Asian - for you, too, no?
            And let the rod, machine-gun crews will meet them at the border.
            it turns out I wrote about you correctly, something that the moderator "plastered" with dots could write this: either-aerated pussy (this is excusable) or - ....... (plastered by the moderator) laughing
            1. Warrawar
              Warrawar 3 November 2013 00: 07
              +1
              Quote: andruha70
              and the differences between the Russian-speaking Russian, Ukrainian or Tatar Asian - for you, too, no?

              he understood what he said?
              1. Day 11
                Day 11 3 November 2013 00: 10
                0
                He said anyhow
              2. andruha70
                andruha70 3 November 2013 23: 17
                0
                he understood what he said?
                I did not say. I asked a question. repeat although ... you can not answer, and so, everything is clear.
  • Reasonable, 2,3
    Reasonable, 2,3 2 November 2013 14: 13
    -1
    Well Primakov, after all, the GRU can connect, for the most stubborn. Why are they waiting? Soon, something will be. As always, Putin will make a surprise. And you know what I figured out?: Most sites support mi ... and ha ... Read the site of the "government of chechnya", I fell out.
  • Pancho
    Pancho 2 November 2013 14: 18
    +2
    In my opinion, it will no longer help to expel. It is necessary that the security forces systematically quietly withdraw from circulation all those who are considered Wahhabis and to special camps with mosques of course.
    1. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 2 November 2013 20: 07
      0
      Quote: Pancho
      It is necessary that the security forces methodically without noise, quietly withdraw from circulation all those who are considered Wahhabis

      There was a legend about the "White Arrow" in the 90s
      It seems like it's time to revive.
  • Siberian German
    Siberian German 2 November 2013 19: 53
    +2
    as well as all the Cathars who visited the United Arab Emirates for the purpose of training, immediately put them under control with a mandatory mark in the FSB every 2 weeks as conditioners
  • yurii p
    yurii p 3 November 2013 22: 33
    +1
    How can you expel Russians from Russia, you just have to comply with the LAW, and not deal with replenishing the family budget, which all officials and the police will do successfully, including the LAWs, the lock, and ANARCHY, which is observed in Russian society.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 4 November 2013 13: 51
    +1
    Yazal relatives of terrorists to indemnify President of Russia Vladimir Putin signed a law aimed at strengthening measures to counter terrorism. The document is posted on the official portal of legal information.
    Source: http://earth-chronicles.ru/news/2013-11-04-53920
  • Stephen
    Stephen 4 November 2013 14: 11
    +1
    I support !!! But the sad thing is that navryatli it will work. While oil and gas are pumping in countries that everyone knows, there are huge funds to finance Wahhabism and there is nothing to be done about it, as the sheikhs say in Qatar quote "Allah gave us oil so that we can raise his name around the world" and not only Russia, as you can see, is suffering from this virus as mentioned above.
  • Onotollah
    Onotollah 2 November 2013 08: 44
    +5
    All these unpleasant things happen because up to someone it is beneficial.
    The cord is on, have time to pull out the fuse?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 09: 13
      10
      Quote: Onotolle
      The cord is on, have time to pull out the fuse?

      Maybe in time, the question is at what cost. Well, this is, as usual with us.
      The cops are on the photo, and if the crowd gets out of control ..... Ten years ago there was no such thing in Moscow, why did you have to arrange this booth, why ??????? What would scratch your turnip now, what to do with it.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 09: 32
        +7
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Ten years ago this in Moscow

        23 years ago, something similar was in Baku. Lesson not learned.
        1. Migari
          Migari 2 November 2013 10: 18
          +6
          It is not customary for us to draw conclusions from the mistakes of others, and you can clearly see what this liberalism and excessive tolerance is bringing to us, which is already happening in Europe, it’s time to take measures.
          1. Warrawar
            Warrawar 3 November 2013 20: 01
            +2
            Quote: Migari
            It is not customary for us to draw conclusions from the mistakes of others, and you can clearly see what this liberalism and excessive tolerance is bringing to us, which is already happening in Europe, it’s time to take measures.

            It’s not that it’s not customary to draw conclusions from other people's mistakes, we don’t even make our own. And this is a sign of tomfoolery.
        2. Ptah
          Ptah 2 November 2013 14: 19
          +8
          From the latest news
          -

          The Chechen population of Grozny is afraid of Russians: they gather in large groups, drink beer and speak a language incomprehensible to the local people, insulting others, touching passers-by and pestering Chechen girls. The inhabitants of Grozny are outraged by the Russian habit of making pork dumplings right in the yards. The Russian diaspora rejects claims, citing national traditions.
          In Grozny, a gang of Russian car thieves was detained, which was engaged in the theft of prestigious cars. The stolen vehicles were then sold in the central regions of Russia. More often in small villages in Tambov and Vologda regions.
          Leader of the Chechen "Society of Tolerance Adherents" Nursery of Pomos promised to find customers of yesterday's tragedy. Let us remind you that yesterday a suicide bomber derailed the Grozny-Makhachkala train. The identity of the terrorist has been established - this is a member of the terrorist Orthodox organization of the extremist persuasion "Brigade of the Great Martyrs of Christ" Ivan Pozharovwhose brother is a battle commander Vasily Pozharov, was eliminated during the special. operations in the Khimki forest last month. Residents of the city of Grozny are outraged by the construction of the Orthodox Cathedral. Also, Grozny residents are outraged by the demand of the Russian diaspora to expand the cathedral square, since not all believers have the opportunity to get to the temple. Father Anatoly explained -
          "A lot of parishioners come to the great Orthodox holidays, and there is no way for everyone to be accommodated in the church itself. There are about 3 million Orthodox believers in Grozny.".
          Meanwhile, the locals of Eduardo. -
          "You need to be tolerant, but not to the same extent, so that a temple of giaurs is rebuilt and expanded in the center of the Islamic capital of the Caucasus."
          - explained the local resident Record Nadoev.
          Ethnic Russian groups control the drug business in Grozny. In the center of Grozny, a group of three Russians was detained, from whom hornets and knives were seized. The Russians explained the presence of this weapon with the features of the national costume.
          The Russian diaspora in Grozny demanded the immediate release of detainees and an end to lawlessness on a national basis.

          laughing tongue
      2. Ptah
        Ptah 2 November 2013 13: 50
        +6
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The cops are on the photo, and if the crowd gets out of control ...

        Therefore, now such cops are being actively prepared -
        You can, of course, say that in the photo, for example, Buryats or Kalmyks, but the "landscape" is not Altai or steppe.
        And if not the "Kalmyks" - the crowd around is kipishnit, what order will such "law enforcement officers" carry out? Kolokoltsev or an "Islamic preacher"?
        1. Hairy Siberian
          Hairy Siberian 2 November 2013 15: 41
          +1
          Quote: Ptah
          Therefore, now such cops are being actively prepared -
          You can, of course, say that in the photo, for example, Buryats or Kalmyks, but the "landscape" is not Altai or steppe.

          Sometimes, on major holidays or other events, in order to strengthen the personnel of law enforcement officers, police are temporarily imported from other regions of Russia.
        2. Normal
          Normal 2 November 2013 17: 53
          +6
          Quote: Ptah
          Therefore, now such cops are being actively prepared -

          Well, it's still probably Asia. And here I was at MAKS 2013 and saw a police cordon there, in which 6-8 Tajiks fell on one Slavic face.
      3. duke
        duke 2 November 2013 16: 19
        +3
        yes, there is a war going on, but unusual, and the government has occupied an ostrich policy, how many more Beslan, Nord-Ostov, Birelyuvs are necessary for the people and power to wake up?
    2. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 3 November 2013 22: 43
      0
      Quote: Onotolle
      All these unpleasant things happen because


      Be so kind ... specify ... What are the unpleasant things?
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 2 November 2013 08: 44
    10
    Recently, a real wave of terrorist attacks and their attempts has hit upon Russia. In July 2012, the deputy mufti of Tatarstan Valiulla Yakupov was shot dead at his home,

    Damn, I watched this video not so long ago, and did not know that he had already been killed. Generally krants! This Romadanovsky with the company must be taken for the gills, this is their work.
  • TAIM
    TAIM 2 November 2013 08: 46
    12
    burn with a hot iron. how much you can hide your head in the sand. power is silent about the problem. if the authorities do not want to do anything, then the radicals will do it. A holy place is never empty.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 2 November 2013 08: 48
    +3
    The photo before the article speaks for itself! Russia will cope with this misfortune .. (we have a great experience .. we harness the truth for a long time, as always ..)))
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 2 November 2013 08: 52
      12
      Quote: MIKHAN
      really harness for a long time as always ..)
      And this time it would be better to hurry. And then there will be nowhere to go.
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 2 November 2013 08: 54
        0
        Yes, they work in this direction, like ..
        1. IRBIS
          IRBIS 2 November 2013 13: 44
          +5
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Yes, they work in this direction, like ..

          The key word today is VRODE ....
          1. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 4 November 2013 21: 04
            +1
            More precisely: it seems to work.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 09: 15
      +9
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Russia will cope with this misfortune

      Not so long ago, there was no such nonsense. Who allowed the sheep on the streets of Moscow to be cut, so I would ask those.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 2 November 2013 09: 41
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Not so long ago, there was no such nonsense. Who allowed the sheep on the streets of Moscow to be cut, so I would ask those.
        Is it forbidden to slaughter sheep? If not, then the question should be asked "Why not banned?" And if it is still prohibited, then who is responsible for the observance of the laws?
        1. antiaircrafter
          antiaircrafter 2 November 2013 09: 56
          +4
          Quote: Nagan
          Is it forbidden to cut rams?

          You can cut ... in your yard behind a high fence.
          Quote: Nagan
          Why not banned?

          Like there is an article for animal cruelty. Is a ram an animal?
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 2 November 2013 11: 04
            0
            than
            Quote: antiaircrafter
            You can cut ... in your yard behind a high fence.
            Quote: antiaircrafter
            Like there is an article for animal cruelty. Is a ram an animal?


            But what, cutting a ram on the street is more cruel than behind a fence?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 11: 25
              10
              Quote: Nagan
              But what, cutting a ram on the street is more cruel than behind a fence?

              But there’s nothing that people who don’t like it go there. I think that if Allah Akbar is screaming at your house and you cut sheep, you’ll start calling the police without asking questions like that.
              1. Revolver
                Revolver 2 November 2013 18: 42
                0
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Quote: Nagan
                But what, cutting a ram on the street is more cruel than behind a fence?

                But there’s nothing that people who don’t like it go there. I think that if Allah Akbar is screaming at your house and you cut sheep, you’ll start calling the police without asking questions like that.

                I just meant that "animal abuse" will not fail in court. You can of course try a four-thread like "violation of sanitary standards", but I'm afraid that there is a sanction - a fine, ie. consider that none, but for more - the term or even deportation will not pull.
                And how do you like this little idea. Exactly in Eid al-Adha allow marches of animal rights defenders and other militant vegetarians, guarded, essno, riot police. There will be clashes and attempts to save rams from slaughter. This is where riot police will have an occasion to write out a certain dupe with a full program for certain non-citizens.
            2. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 2 November 2013 17: 26
              +3
              Quote: Nagan
              But what, cutting a ram on the street is more cruel than behind a fence?
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 2 November 2013 11: 22
          +9
          Quote: Nagan
          Is it forbidden to cut rams?

          Do you think this is normal? To your second question, what do you think, who could solve this at all in the center of Russia. Who came to this dumb head.
          1. poquello
            poquello 2 November 2013 13: 43
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Nagan
            Is it forbidden to cut rams?

            Do you think this is normal? To your second question, what do you think, who could solve this at all in the center of Russia. Who came to this dumb head.

            And I really want to hear who allowed it allowed and why ogreb for it.
      2. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 2 November 2013 10: 28
        +1
        Liberalism however ...))) In the province there is easier ..
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. ramzes1776
        ramzes1776 2 November 2013 15: 16
        +6
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Who allowed the sheep on the streets of Moscow to cut, then from those would ask.

        It is necessary to say a big thank you to Luzhkov for this. For his friendship with the owners of the "Chirkizons", etc., etc.
  • Garrin
    Garrin 2 November 2013 08: 48
    12
    I have nothing against traditional Islam, they have always lived peacefully with Muslims. Wahhabism, on the other hand, is a contrived and hostile religion that opposes itself to all others, and is very aggressive. I would consider it necessary to officially ban it on the territory of Russia. Wahhabis - for "reforging", the country needs new channels and uranium.
    1. Kolya
      Kolya 2 November 2013 20: 44
      +3
      Corruption in Russia is a breeding ground for all kinds of Wahhabism. Destroy corruption - Wahhabism will not be of interest to anyone. Their amirs explode themselves with anger and this will end.
  • Old bear
    Old bear 2 November 2013 08: 49
    13
    Greetings to all members of the forum! A similar scenario for the collapse of the Soviet Union was spelled out in the Barbaross plan in the section political destabilization in the rear, namely, the radical Muslimization of the Caucasus and Central Asia, and the racial superiority of Islam over other ethnic groups and religions. (1939. F. Pauls)
  • Revolver
    Revolver 2 November 2013 09: 02
    10
    Amin clearly deserved deportation, since he could not prohibit Russian citizens from using their rights.
    No, let him first go to the Russian north, drank the forest there, well, or wave Kyle. And as the deadline ends, so you can deport. I would even say it’s not possible, but necessary.
    What article to plant, ask? And what does the state keep a crowd of law enforcement officers and other lawyers on salaries? So let them work out their salaries.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 2 November 2013 09: 14
    +7
    the highest authorities are to blame for everything, they are in the know about everything but politics and loot have inseparable things
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 2 November 2013 11: 55
      +4
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      politics and loot they have inseparable things

      A little bit wrong, politics is a tool for them to make money, if it can be called a job. Accounts and real estate over the hill, steal as you can, and wherever you can. There is nothing to fear about the law, it was invented only for the people who, the so-called politicians, are robbing. As it smells fried, they will pack the belongings in a dry cargo ship (it will not fit in containers), and goodbye the homeland. And we all will remain to disentangle what they have done, and once again to raise the country from ruins.
  • Stinger
    Stinger 2 November 2013 09: 23
    11
    It is time to proceed from stating facts to tracking down and destroying Wahhabi leaders. Declare them a terrorist organization (which in fact they are), organize a real hunt for them with the help of the population, surveillance, etc. and destroy. All the same, they do not understand another language, and are not afraid of death. To begin with, to declare an anti-terrorist operation throughout Dagestan, to identify and destroy the ringleaders, to destroy their houses, and not to declare a CTO regime in a separate village. They are already fed up with normal people and they will be happy to help, all the more so in many villages the residents themselves create self-defense units.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 2 November 2013 10: 49
      +4
      Quote: Stinger
      It is time to proceed from stating facts to tracking down and destroying Wahhabi leaders. Declare them a terrorist organization (which in fact they are), organize a real hunt for them with the help of the population, surveillance, etc. and destroy.

      And in other countries, too, following the example of MOSAD.
    2. poquello
      poquello 2 November 2013 13: 57
      +1
      Quote: Stinger
      They are already fed up with normal people and they will be happy to help, especially in many villages the residents themselves create self-defense units.

      Of course they will help, for example, in the Wahhabi village themselves, and they will help neighbors. Not so IMHO everything is simple.
    3. rate
      rate 2 November 2013 14: 52
      +4
      "Dear fellow citizens of all faiths, including hierarchs, ideologists, and especially the heads of republics, regions, and other respected people. This is Russia. Russia has never been a Sharia country. And it never will. Accept it or leave us."
      German Sadulayev
      http://svpressa.ru/society/article/76331/
  • calocha
    calocha 2 November 2013 09: 48
    +8
    The authorities are busy with a more important issue, a cut! So far they have no time for this ....
  • Basileus
    Basileus 2 November 2013 09: 52
    +4
    Good article. Everyone would learn to distinguish between Muslims living in the neighborhood for hundreds of years and Wahhabis who bring alien ideology and propagandize it among the locals, everyone would be better off. First of all, to those on whom these sermons act.
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 2 November 2013 10: 18
      +8
      Quote: Basileus
      Wahhabis who bring alien ideology and propagandize it ...

      I think it is necessary to legally ban Wahhabism in Russia, as a religion that threatens the state.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 3 November 2013 05: 22
        +1
        And who and how defines Wahhabism? Where is the border between Wahhabism and non-Wahhabism? The law should contain clear legal wording, and not "wanting the best", because it can "turn out as always." That is, in this case, you are not zealous - the Wahhabis will point their fingers at you, and it’s good if they only laugh, otherwise they can kill you. And if you overdo it, completely uninvolved people can get caught up in the distribution, just for a name that sounds suspiciously Islamic, although it is not.
        1. Yuri Y.
          Yuri Y. 4 November 2013 13: 07
          +1
          There is one criterion, who is against Russia for the collapse, to the wall.
  • BASHKIR
    BASHKIR 2 November 2013 09: 55
    +8
    All wahkhs and the like should be punished severely, property should be confiscated, and they should be buried with swine waste, so that others would not be accustomed.
    And all sorts of pseudo heroes and their remains to be brewed in pork skins-defiantly, to hell with them and not PARADISE ...
    1. antiaircrafter
      antiaircrafter 2 November 2013 10: 00
      +5
      Quote: BASHKIR
      pork skins

      valuable product, but the waste - hooves, entrails that cannot be processed, can be used.
  • FormerMariman
    FormerMariman 2 November 2013 10: 02
    +2
    The history of Russia consisted of a systematic seizure (peaceful and not so) of nearby and distant territories with their nationalities, nations, tribes, followed by their civilization (which, admittedly, the latter only benefited)! Now the largest territory in the world with hundreds of different nationalities is not able to control only with the help of the state. authorities! GDP is calm, the FSB is working, but it is not eternal, what map of Russia will be with another president in 20-30 years ?!
    The authors of many Russophobic articles on this site, protected by the immunity of "highly respected" administrators, excite exactly what is written here: "An atmosphere of fear, hatred is created in the country, a split occurs along the line of Muslim Christians, Russians -" blacks ", Russian migrants There is an increase in radical, nationalistic and xenophobic sentiments. They will try to split off the Tatars, which have long become an important part of Russian civilization, from the Russians. , komi and others, it will be easy. "
    From the outside it looks something like this: "I will write, and you go to the barricades, but I warned you that this is bad, because I am a patriot of my country, and it is not my fault that you succumb to this atmosphere!"
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. 4 November 2013 13: 22
      0
      I agree with the whole post, except for the conclusion
      Quote: Former Mariman
      From the outside it looks something like this: "I will write, and you go to the barricades, but I warned you that this is bad, because I am a patriot of my country, and it is not my fault that you succumb to this atmosphere!"
  • patriot2
    patriot2 2 November 2013 10: 02
    +7
    I agree with the author, the threat of Wahhabism is real and very well disguised. They are clearly waiting for the "X" hour and are seriously preparing for this and certainly have their own main center, which will give this order.
    People beware, Wahhabism contagion - worse than the plague!
  • Savva30
    Savva30 2 November 2013 10: 09
    +3
    Obama knows that weapons kill adults, children in schools, shed a tear, but do not cancel the free sale of weapons ...
    so are our rulers, everyone knows, they know what we're going to, but so far they are not itching. Little blood, we still want ...
    If in the near future they do not pass a law prohibiting Wahhabism on the territory of the Russian Federation, if they do not harshly suppress any antics of Wahhabis, the people themselves will begin to do so. But then the question arises: is this a plan for the collapse of Russia?
    I urge all public associations of veteran orientation to forget about their "personal greatness" and unite in solving this problem. For now, you can get by with "little blood" ... You need to bring your position to the President of the Russian Federation.
    From me personally ... Vladimir Vladimirovich! Take a break from foreign policy, put things in order around you, a lot of work ...
  • Adel
    Adel 2 November 2013 10: 15
    +4
    while the Saudis feel unpunished this house will continue the Saudis they sponsor the Chechen Afghan and Syriac company the main sponsor of this dirty idea and while this tumor will not cut out the disease will be vast although the Saudis are just an instrument for their Western masters, the Americans and Israelis are more likely than the Saudis themselves to punish evidence for their intervention in reading and other regions. Russia is a lot
  • Savva30
    Savva30 2 November 2013 10: 17
    +5
    By the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated December 19 of 2012 of the year No.1666 (!), “The Strategy of the State National Policy of the Russian Federation for the Period Until the 2025 of the Year” was approved.
    Paragraph 5 of the Strategy states that “The main issues of state national policy of the Russian Federation, requiring special attention of state and municipal bodies, are still:
    a) the preservation and development of cultures and languages ​​of the peoples of the Russian Federation, the strengthening of their spiritual community;
    b) ensuring the rights of indigenous peoples and national minorities;
    c) the creation of additional socio-economic and political conditions to ensure lasting national and international peace and harmony in the North Caucasus;
    d) supporting compatriots living abroad, promoting the development of their ties with Russia. ”
    It's all! And where are the interests of the nation-forming nation, which makes up 80% of the population?
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 2 November 2013 14: 18
      +2
      And what is the first point to you? Does it say "except for Russians"? I don’t see that.
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 2 November 2013 17: 33
      +2
      Quote: Savva30
      By the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated December 19 of 2012 of the year No.1666 (!), “The Strategy of the State National Policy of the Russian Federation for the Period Until the 2025 of the Year” was approved.

      The strategy is state-owned, and regions should implement it at their own expense laughing
  • calocha
    calocha 2 November 2013 10: 18
    +9
    Why do chebureks go tail in Belarus ?! They don’t find them in the markets. Because the authorities almost never take bribes. There are no mosques for them. But in Russia there are more mosques for Muslims per capita than in Saudi Arabia. Wahhabis are preparing people (the only question is what are they preparing for) Where is the power looking? Why not prepare moderate imams at home, and foreign imams who have taken courses in the madrasahs of Egypt, Pakistan and others, do not take a pencil, they say where and from whom he studied. It’s easier to ban this Wahhabism from Salafism .
  • mountain
    mountain 2 November 2013 10: 20
    0
    All the problems are from Saudi Arabia, it’s time to buttons this country, show Kuzkin’s mother. There will be no material support and propaganda will shut up.
    1. mountain
      mountain 2 November 2013 17: 00
      0
      And everything is right in the photo, so they will stand or we will put them, cancer. We love jokes and we can laugh at ourselves, but their arrogance beats all the chapels.
    2. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 5 November 2013 08: 43
      +1
      Quote: mountain
      All the problems are from Saudi Arabia,


      laughing

      rather, from corruption, greed, theft, illiteracy and non-professionalism, and elementary lack of will.
  • os9165
    os9165 2 November 2013 10: 28
    15
    Suddenly, Putin saw the light of "urgently looking for a national idea," although he himself has been following Yeltsin's behests to "get rich" since the 2000s. Nizam was cut short by such a setting. Physical dirt is not so terrible as moral. It is even worse when it is worn by representatives of the highest authorities in your country. I am enraged by the number of blacks on the streets of our cities, but in fact the problem is not in them, but in the power that created the conditions for their arrival. Is it really not visible behind the screen of the puppeteer. Nothing personal - just loot - THAT IS ALL NATS.IDEYA. The understanding in society that “it’s impossible to live like this” is growing stronger, the budget will face a drop in income, the country will see a surge in unemployment, the government's response is to get out as best you can. The government itself contributes to the creation of the Russian Caliph. You need to love not only loot, but also the backbone of the country RUSSIA -RUSSIAN PEOPLE. Is it really incomprehensible if it bangs then their tail will be torn off to the very neck. Where is the instinct of self-preservation, loot is NOT NECESSARY if the head is torn off.
    1. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 2 November 2013 21: 07
      0
      Strong picture!
  • Igor39
    Igor39 2 November 2013 10: 29
    +7
    It is necessary for the Tatar imams of traditional Islam to give control to all mosques, let them go with checks, take exams.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 2 November 2013 14: 27
      +4
      If someone had given them an opportunity. In the remaining madrasahs in Ufa, either Arabs or the people who studied there teach. And which, accordingly, were brainwashed well. Muslim religious education in Russia in a very distant and dark ass, like everything else, concerning Hanafi Islam, traditional for Russia and Central Asia. And if the authorities, whether secular or religious, whatever, do not begin to solve the problem right now, the number of fanatics will only grow.
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 2 November 2013 10: 29
    +2
    <<< Muftis who preach Islam, traditional for Russia, are expelled. It also comes to murders. For two decades, according to the Central Spiritual Directorate of Muslims of Russia, 60 Muslim spiritual leaders were killed. >>>
    Well, for a long time our liberals - tolerasts in power will remain in the "nirvana" of rabid "pluralism"? Do they hope that it will resolve itself? WILL NOT DISCOVER! And our "partners" from NATO and their Saudi allies are well aware of this and therefore spare no effort and money to expand the bridgeheads of Wahhabism's penetration into Russia, but from the bridgeheads already seized by the Wahhabis, using the covert and open support of local officials (acting out of bewilderment or deliberately in personal interests) to start a large-scale OFFENSIVE on Russia, on its basic structures and values ​​with a single goal - to destroy Russia from within!
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. 4 November 2013 13: 39
      0
      Everywhere I speak about it, referring to our imams. Big +.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 2 November 2013 10: 34
    +2
    Quote: mountain
    All the problems are from Saudi Arabia, it’s time to buttons this country, show Kuzkin’s mother. There will be no material support and propaganda will shut up.

    Look for who is interested and for what .. In Chechnya, I remember blocked channels (main ones) .. thinned .. Ahmad went to negotiations immediately .. But this is a regional conflict ..
  • major071
    major071 2 November 2013 10: 47
    +9
    Militant Islam has seized Afghanistan, occupied Central Asia and rushes to Russia. If the authorities continue to sit and scratch their testicles, then Russia will be overwhelmed by a wave of terrorist attacks and killings on religious grounds. I do not think that the FSB does not "catch mice" in our country, all the explicit and implicit Wahhabis have been on the hook for a long time, but the "fas" command is not coming. Obviously, someone needs it, someone who wants the weakening and collapse of Russia on a national and religious basis. Strong Russia is not needed by anyone in the West. Find this bastard and a lantern for the edification of descendants.
    1. de_monSher
      de_monSher 2 November 2013 12: 30
      +9
      occupied Central Asia and is eager for Russia.


      The feeling develops that you are not on friendly terms with your head, and your eyesight is also bad - you have not even read the article carefully. In Central Asia, in Uzbekistan, these u-b-l-yu-d-k-o-v bend over and have iron reinforcement in the anus not according to detski. The problem is that in Russia you have liberalized the activities of "priests" of any color and suit too much. Whether the priest, whether Mulla - must deal with human souls. As soon as he gets into politics, the 9-gram lead hotels in his forehead is the simplest and wisest decision ...
  • Letterksi
    Letterksi 2 November 2013 10: 50
    +1
    All this happens in the underbelly of Russia, in Central Asia. So train your body and spirit while there is still time. This plague will not pass us by
  • Ddhal
    Ddhal 2 November 2013 11: 08
    +4
    First, it is necessary to expel the frankly weak and weak-willed government of the Russian Federation, which cowardly observes the invasion of locusts and does nothing ..
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 2 November 2013 13: 00
      +4
      "First, it is necessary to expel the openly weak and weak-willed government of the Russian Federation, which is cowardly watching the locust infestation and does nothing .."

      about the weak-willed government, you got excited; in everything that happens, a remarkable will is felt for the collapse of the country. and it does not observe the invasion of locusts, but organizes it.
      but about expelling him, I completely agree with you.
  • Averias
    Averias 2 November 2013 11: 30
    +2
    Some kind of photo, mmmm, twofold or something. It seems that they are praying at the cops and prostrate.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • zinander
    zinander 2 November 2013 11: 51
    -1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov

    Read the Bible and find at least a line that says that you need to fight and kill.
    So in the Qur'an, nothing is written about killing, if anything. And you can juggle anything and anything.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 2 November 2013 14: 29
      -3
      By the way, yes. The people are urging people on quotes from the Koran, completely taken out of context and translated "as it should," and they start yelling about militant Islam.
  • vlad0
    vlad0 2 November 2013 12: 02
    +6
    "Candidate of Historical Sciences Yakupov was a supporter of a tough struggle against Wahhabism and consistently advocated the prohibition of Wahhabism throughout the Russian Federation, seeing this as a real threat to traditional Islam."


    Yakupov advocated a ban on Wahhabism in the Russian Federation, but for some reason our rulers are NOT. Many questions arise at once, and the first - who has the most from this?
    And the spread of radicals in Tatarstan was known even in the early 2000s. At that time, the Tatar president Shaimiev, in response to such information, accused everyone and everything of attempting to assault the sovereignty and infringement of the Tatars, the federal center - of Russian chauvinism, and threatened to arrange a second Chechnya.
    1. Field
      Field 2 November 2013 13: 15
      0
      Quote: vlad0
      and threatened to arrange a second Chechnya.


      In response, I would have received the second capture of Kazan and his ass on the stake
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 2 November 2013 14: 31
        +1
        So, purely theoretically. How long does the war in the Caucasus last? Active ended, okay, and the bandits there are still running around in the woods. But Tatarstan and Bashkortostan are far from the size of Chechnya.
        1. kaktus
          kaktus 2 November 2013 15: 27
          0
          And almost in the center, not on the outskirts winked
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 2 November 2013 14: 30
      +1
      Proof is it possible? It is very interesting to read about the second Chechnya.
  • Letterksi
    Letterksi 2 November 2013 12: 11
    +9
    Marat Musin gave an interview km.ru

    http://anna-news.info/node/12745

    there are about 15 million migrants in Russia, among which there is already active propaganda of destabilizing the situation. He says he saw a document on the need to bring in another 15 million migrants. This will be enough to completely suppress the population of erefii. Why do you need about 30 million?

    And the calculation is very simple. If we take into account that 140 million people live in Russia, of which about 80% are Russians, then it turns out that Russians are 112 million. The male Russian population is less than 56 million (divide in half 112). Of which the combat-ready population, I do not know, well, let it be about 30 million, and this is for the whole country.

    Migrants travel mainly young people, in other words, combat-ready. travel mainly to central cities. If there will be about 30 million. THEN PARITY IN FORCE ON THE FACE. Of course, most of them go to work, not to fight. But they will be concentrated mainly in central cities.

    To this we must add that the breadbasket of Russia is located in the south of the country, where the entire distribution of agricultural products is concentrated in the hands of Caucasians. Which, in case of which they block the supply of grain to the central cities of Russia.

    Arms deliveries to future fighters have probably already been established through various fruit and vegetable bases, as in Biryulyovo.

    Who brought the country to this milestone? Who's guilty? Anyone who is going to distribute passports to all migrants on the right and left. Already distributes through corruption schemes and nat. Diaspora, now going to the open. All this rotten power. Only by changing it you can do something else

    This is a one-on-one scenario like in Syria.

    Wake up those who do not want to lie with their throats cut, while his wife and children will be fucked in zindans and dabbed with drugs, and sent by trains to Turkey in Arab brothels on the Black Sea coast

    This appeal is primarily to the security forces of erefii
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 2 November 2013 14: 53
      +7
      Quote: LetterKsi
      This is a one-on-one scenario like in Syria.

      More precisely - as in Kosovo.
      First, preferences for the Muslim population. Promotion of entry from Albania.
      Then the heated "discontent" of the adherents of Islam. the fact that they are allegedly infringed upon by the Serbs, who are in the majority.
      Further pogroms against Christians. Westerners only open their mouths when locals fight back.
      The result is known. Wahhabism initially did not have much power.
      Judging by what has been happening in Russia over the past five years, the script will be repeated with jewelry accuracy.
      And Wahhabism is an additional catalyst. At first, prepare combat detachments, and then provoke (fairly) disaffected local population supported by law enforcement agencies.
      What to do? It’s not for me to teach you Men you are adults - you yourself will understand.
      Not hoping for power, take all measures to further protect yourself and your families. Good luck. With God!
      1. Normal
        Normal 2 November 2013 18: 03
        +4
        Quote: LetterKsi
        Wake up those who do not want to lie with their throats cut,

        Quote: Ptah
        Not hoping for power, take all measures to further protect yourself and your families. Good luck. With God!

        Oh, men ... I'm already tired of repeating this. Thank God that it has not only reached me. Already a plus.
  • nemec55
    nemec55 2 November 2013 12: 22
    +3
    Thus, representatives of migrants are already telling us in Russia what is right and what is not. This is a very frightening precedent.

    Suitcase station Dushanbe to protect.
    Happen that (God forbid) I would go first to beat the bureaucrats face.
  • FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 2 November 2013 12: 49
    +4
    Rep. Wed Asia has long been astonished at Russia's tolerance of Islam. As they say, they waited.
  • shtanko.49
    shtanko.49 2 November 2013 12: 57
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Denis
    , everyone interprets the Koran as it suits him,

    In general, like the Bible. Religion is always used as a means of manipulating society.

    I agree. When the USSR existed, it could not even have occurred to me that some kind of "Wahhabis" would walk freely around Russia, they would immediately be beaten. Well, now we are reaping the fruits of liberal politics and for 20 years they have been pushing us that capitalism is more progressive than socialism , all the scum put cancer.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 2 November 2013 12: 57
    +1
    I think they’ll wet .. The laws are useless. And most importantly, all this will happen quietly .. (I remembered in 90 = horror that the beating of rape .. robberies .. gatherings of citizens outraged .. useless) They shot the main then (the wave just went ... like a criminal showdown) and silence ..! Who survived most of them ran away the others are not visible and can not be heard .. years 10 = 15 it was .. It’s already possible to walk quietly at night .. (but anything happens ..) ..
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 2 November 2013 13: 03
    +1
    Quote: major071
    Obviously this is necessary for someone, for those who want to weaken and break up Russia according to national and religious principles. No one in the West needs a strong Russia. Find this bastard and the lantern as a warning to posterity.

    And what to look for them? And so it is obvious that all this bastard in the Kremlin dug in. They must be cleaned first.
  • optimist
    optimist 2 November 2013 13: 05
    0
    As the saying goes, another "hello" to the putinoids! Our u.b. power has played too much with religion, forgetting. that this is a double-edged sword. Instead of banning any religion altogether, this obscurantism is being intensively propagated. It is clear that they are impressed by the ecclesiastical "all power from God." The same putler in his KGB youth, I suppose, pinched the priests in full, and now he kisses them on the gums. It is always easier to manage a stupid, church-going b. Idle than smart and educated people. So we're done ...
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 2 November 2013 13: 28
      -1
      In my opinion, the authorities have played with people like you (optimist) -liberals .. Everything will start with you! .. Then everyone and everyone will calm down .. (the air will become cleaner) and you can let the children go for walks ..!
      1. optimist
        optimist 2 November 2013 13: 56
        -3
        Quote: MIKHAN
        In my opinion, power has played with people like you (optimist) -liberals ..

        Such zh.opolizy, like you, 100 years ago climbed with banners and bawled "God save the king." Thanks to such "patriots" like you, the current government is alive and well !!! When you are caught and taken away by the Muslims fed by the putler. you will sing differently ...
        1. MIKHAN
          MIKHAN 2 November 2013 18: 03
          +2
          Let's see .. The main thing is not to hysteria!
          1. optimist
            optimist 2 November 2013 18: 35
            +2
            Quote: MIKHAN
            Let's see .. The main thing is not to hysteria!

            The only sound thought for today ...
            1. MIKHAN
              MIKHAN 2 November 2013 18: 41
              +1
              Oh really ??? Question to you: "When you are caught and taken away by the Muslims fed by the putler. you will sing differently ... "
              Has this happened to you before? and how do you understand that they are fed and by whom .. ??? (I apologize for touching a very intimate part of your consciousness)))
              But still ...
              1. optimist
                optimist 2 November 2013 21: 56
                -1
                Quote: MIKHAN
                Has this happened to you before?

                Yes, you are worried, I look ... Okay, I'll change the word "fuck" to the word "cut". Is it easier? The recent events in Biryulyovo have shown that many of our compatriots are not as complacent and optimistic as you ...
        2. alone
          alone 2 November 2013 19: 41
          0
          I’ve already fucked someone who’s been screaming, wassat
          1. optimist
            optimist 2 November 2013 22: 01
            0
            Quote: lonely
            that screams to the fullest

            No one yells, dear, but calmly argues. In the early 80s, I lived in the Salyan region for three years and had wonderful communication with many of your compatriots. And we have never mentioned either God or Allah. Over the years, much has changed for the worse, including thanks to the religious hysteria forced by the current "kings" ...
            1. MIKHAN
              MIKHAN 2 November 2013 23: 05
              -1
              Come on, justify everyone understood everything .. laughing And the details are not interesting to us .. (wrong site))))
              1. optimist
                optimist 2 November 2013 23: 38
                +1
                Quote: MIKHAN
                Come on, justify everyone understood everything ..

                "It is a sin to laugh at the poor ..."
            2. alone
              alone 2 November 2013 23: 19
              +4
              and what has changed for the worse? Azerbaijan has become an Islamic state and is governed by Sharia law? Can we blow up various civic goals and kill by hiding our crimes with the Islamic religion?
              Alexei! the relations between the peoples are the same. just some really wanted to do a PR campaign because of the murder of a Russian guy. and partially achieved their goals.
              After all, it also happens in Azerbaijan that a Russian citizen of a republic kills an Azerbaijani for one reason or another. But in our country, none of this happens to throw a tantrum.
              1. ayyildiz
                ayyildiz 2 November 2013 23: 30
                +1

                A police officer beat and killed an elderly Azerbaijani man in public, why is the media SILENT ?????
                1. Russ69
                  Russ69 2 November 2013 23: 36
                  0
                  Quote: ayyildiz
                  A police officer beat and killed an elderly Azerbaijani man in public, why is the media SILENT ?????

                  And to whom, is it interesting ...? If it were the other way around, they would immediately trumpet it.
                2. Normal
                  Normal 3 November 2013 09: 33
                  +4
                  Quote: ayyildiz
                  A police officer beat and killed an elderly Azerbaijani man in public, why is the media SILENT ?????

                  It is necessary to understand that you learned this news orally from eyewitnesses, then personally filmed and posted this video?
                  Quote: Russ69
                  And to whom, is it interesting ...?

                  Well, you and your like-minded people are interested.
                  And most really not. The fact that people of far from high moral and ethical qualities often serve in the police is not a secret. There is nothing that would be sensationally outrageous in this news. The cop - of course scum, if everything was really so. But who is it now surprising? Who is outraged? Everyone is already used to it and put up with it.
                  Quote: Russ69
                  If on the contrary, then they would immediately trumpet

                  That is, if an Azerbaijani would brutally beat and kill a Russian policeman? Of course they would trumpet! How would you like to? So that in this case everyone is silent? Wake up! - We are in Russia and a crime committed by a foreigner against a Russian will always cause a resonance. It .naturally In any case, as long as the Russians in Russia are the majority.
                  1. alone
                    alone 3 November 2013 11: 41
                    -2
                    Quote: Normal
                    That is, if an Azerbaijani would brutally beat and kill a Russian policeman? Of course they would trumpet! How would you like to? So that in this case everyone is silent? Wake up! - We are in Russia and a crime committed by a foreigner against a Russian will always cause a resonance. This is natural. In any case, as long as


                    and Russian killing another person means a simple matter? this is already called chauvinism, or rather Nazism.
                3. alone
                  alone 3 November 2013 11: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: ayyildiz
                  A police officer beat and killed an elderly Azerbaijani man in public, why is the media SILENT ?????


                  Well, where are the bells? why doesn't he look into the eyes of his subordinate?
                  1. ayyildiz
                    ayyildiz 3 November 2013 12: 05
                    0
                    There are a lot of conscientious police officers, but unfortunately he eats such specimens in Moscow!
              2. MIKHAN
                MIKHAN 2 November 2013 23: 31
                +2
                I agree! .. all these hysteria will not lead to anything good ..
              3. Day 11
                Day 11 2 November 2013 23: 31
                +2
                Hi Omar! I've already tried to explain to people, there are villains. The nation has absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides ... I have a Muslim wife, I live somehow
                1. alone
                  alone 2 November 2013 23: 38
                  +5
                  hi Denis! so the fact is that the Orthodox and Muslims have lived nearby for centuries
                  in Russia itself. I wrote the last time that a person who considers Islam his religion will never say anything bad or write about the Prophet Jesus (may God be pleased with him). And what do I see here? Muslims who insult the Muslim prophet are those who even clearly do not really know their religion.
                  1. Day 11
                    Day 11 3 November 2013 01: 01
                    +2
                    Omar. I understand you perfectly. Damaged people. Never mind. We will understand each other forever
              4. optimist
                optimist 2 November 2013 23: 50
                +1
                Quote: lonely
                and what has changed for the worse?

                In mass oppositions, including on religious grounds. Back in school, they proved to me that religion is an opium for the people. That it is religion and its preachers that divide nations and set one against the other. The theme of "right" and "wrong" Islam is often heard here. Yes, the shaitan himself is unlikely to understand. And you can't put a Bogslov-FSB-Schnick on every mufti. And instead of, let's say, not pandering to clergymen (no matter what religion), our government stubbornly encourages the construction of churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. Believe it or not is everyone's personal business. It is simply not necessary to put religion at the service of a narrow group of power.
                Quote: lonely
                .some people just really wanted to do a PR campaign because of the murder of a Russian guy. and partially achieved their goals.

                I agree. But something too often it began to happen ... Provocations, too, are not done from scratch ...

                Quote: lonely
                in Azerbaijan, it also happens that a Russian citizen of a republic kills an Azerbaijani for one reason or another. But in this case, none of us is throwing a fit.

                Willingly I believe in it. Only Russians in Azerbaijan are probably orders of magnitude smaller than Azerbaijanis in Russia ...
                1. alone
                  alone 3 November 2013 00: 24
                  +3
                  Quote: optimist
                  Willingly I believe in it. Only Russians in Azerbaijan are probably orders of magnitude smaller than Azerbaijanis in Russia ...


                  somewhere around 120-150 thousand people. Well, we have a population of 9 million, and you have 143 million. Yes, and the number does not play a role here. We just understand that, crime
                  it’s a crime, and as they say because of one bandit you can’t hang a label on everyone.
                  1. Normal
                    Normal 3 November 2013 10: 00
                    +6
                    Quote: lonely
                    somewhere 120-150 thousand people. Well, we have a population of 9 million, and you have 143 million. Yes, and the number does not play a role here. We just understand that crime is a crime, and as they say because of one bandit you can’t put a label on everyone .

                    Again cunning. Well, an oriental man cannot do without this.
                    The Russian population of Azerbaijan is mainly the descendants of Russian immigrants living in rural areas and engaged in agriculture for much more than a century (Yarbay can give more accurate data) or technical specialists remaining from the time of the Union.
                    Azerbaijanis came to Russia massively relatively recently, they live exclusively in cities and are engaged almost exclusively in trade, that is, they donate. At the same time, they are actively ousting Russians from the sphere of trade, corrupt local authorities and attract bandits from the North Caucasus for their protection.
                    I know, I know, there are Azerbaijanis oil workers and creative intelligentsia, and even simple hard workers, but we’re meeting less often than with Azerbaijani traders.
                    1. alone
                      alone 3 November 2013 11: 37
                      -2
                      Kerim Karimov is also a huckster? Maybe Tahir Salakhov a huckster? Or maybe a farm salman huckster, who at his own risk and fear discovered the oil and gas deposits of Siberia, which you have been pushing to Europe for so many years? stop calling all of us hucksters. can out of the abundance of drunkards call me all drunks? fool think what you say before writing any crap! am
                      1. Normal
                        Normal 3 November 2013 23: 24
                        +3
                        Quote: lonely
                        think what you say

                        Imagine that I usually think I am writing. I advise you; in order not to accuse your opponent of spelling "crap", read carefully and not hope that you will be able to mislead your opponent. It is not necessary to dissemble and cheat if you want to be treated with respect. Moreover, you represent the people here, and by your behavior they will judge all the people. While this is not true, it is.
                        We read carefully:
                        Quote: Normal
                        I know, I know, there are Azerbaijani oilmen
                        i.e;
                        Quote: lonely
                        Farman Salmanov huckster, who at his own risk and fear discovered the oil and gas deposits of Siberia,

                        Unfortunately, I do not know two other respected Azerbaijanis from your post. Perhaps it
                        Quote: Normal
                        creative intelligentsia and even simple hard workers,

                        What kind of demagoguery ?:
                        Quote: lonely
                        stop calling all our hucksters

                        When and where did I call ALL of your traders? I still consider Muslim Magomayev one of the best Soviet vocalists, and Leah Akhedzhakova is an amazing actress, are they traders? Of course not!
                        But with Magomayev, Akhedzhakova, Kerim Kerimov, Tair Salakhov and Farman Salmanov, I and many other Russian people on the street and in the market do not come across. And we face those who
                        They arrived in Russia massively relatively recently, they live exclusively in cities and are engaged almost exclusively in trade, that is, they donate. At the same time, they are actively ousting Russians from the sphere of trade, corrupt local authorities and attract bandits from the North Caucasus for their protection.
                        And to deny this is not possible. Even if you drag here all the Russian drunkards.
                        In a previous post, you disguised comparing the Russian population of Azerbaijan, which consists mainly of descendants of Molokans and Old Believers who fled to the outskirts of the Russian Empire and who are citizens of Azerbaijan, live and work in rural areas with an influx of Azerbaijani merchants who are not and do not produce Russian citizens and trade, while withdrawing the proceeds from Russia.
                        When I pointed this out to you, you turn around again and pretend that I do not know any positive examples. Not pretty.
                        Understand you finally; the times of the gullible and naive Russians, who believed in the friendship of peoples and which could easily be circled around the finger, have sunk into oblivion.
                        Let's relate to each other as equal to equal. Do not try to deceive, breed, persuade, impose your point of view, or even more will. Facts, arguments and justifications. Do not need anything else. And then there will be understanding between our peoples.
                      2. optimist
                        optimist 4 November 2013 01: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: Normal
                        Understand you finally; the times of the gullible and naive Russians, who believed in the friendship of peoples and which could easily be circled around the finger, have sunk into oblivion.

                        I hope so very much too. Our former fellow citizens in the USSR cannot understand one simple thing: the majority of Russians are not nationalists. Personally, I still respect those who were born and raised in the USSR, no matter where they come from. The point is quite different. The USSR has not existed for 22 years. Of course, this is very sad, but it is a fact. The former republics decided (now it doesn't matter who it is: the people or their "babai") to live separately. Only a very ambiguous situation turns out, as in other families after a divorce: the spouses have been officially divorced for a long time, but the wife (or husband), have the keys to the "apartment", go there whenever they want and create accordingly, climb into the refrigerator and safe, and also fuck .. in front of the ex-spouse who does not get into ... This is exactly how the former "fraternal" republics behave, even indignant when they point out to them and try to cover up the "shop". Here, as in the good old joke: "she died, she died." I do not want to say this on behalf of all Russians (I hope I have not yet had megalomania laughing ), but I am sure that most Russians in Russia think so. So we will not whip up nationalism and xenophobia, but we will "live separately." And if now the Russian authorities do not quickly and harshly push back their "former fellow Muslim citizens" to their uluses, Russia is over. Someone very aptly said: "Not every Muslim is a terrorist, but every terrorist is a Muslim!" So we draw conclusions, gentlemen-comrades ...
  • Enjoy
    Enjoy 2 November 2013 13: 18
    0
    Quote: antiaircrafter
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    I would add my own

    Where is it collected?

    Russia is ready to build a pipeline and create a state-owned company SaudGovnoProm)))
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 2 November 2013 15: 10
      +1
      With a subsidiary company "KavkazGounoTrans"
      So, out of habit, they will drill holes in the pipe and pump fertilizer to Israel, where vegetables are watered with this substance, and then they are sold to Russia.

      Link - http://www.dal.by/news/19/11-01-13-1/

      Only deep processing in Russia. With the addition of kosher pig manure. In briquettes with which to fill rockets and send by air to BV
  • dengy12
    dengy12 2 November 2013 13: 33
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Denis
    interpret (koran) with weapons in their hands.

    The Crusaders also interpreted the Bible with a sword in their hands. The war against the infidels is a feature of all one-god religions, because they claim exclusivity.

    the crusaders did not read the Bible. In those days it was banned for the population by the Catholic Church dominating in those days, therefore they could be manipulated as you like: in particular, papal Rome chopped up the loot and sold indulgences (which is not in the Bible) organized crusades not padetski heretics and arranged other cartoons
  • Novik
    Novik 2 November 2013 13: 58
    -3
    Hello!
    "Decades of the degradation of Soviet ideology and the complete absence of state ideology in the Russian Federation are beginning to bear their poisonous fruits. A holy place is never empty" (c)

    I liked everything except the word "poisonous".
    Yuri Nikitin has a rather interesting (in my opinion) book, including on this topic, "Rage".
    http://knijky.ru/books/yarost
    Quote: Alikovo
    It is necessary to expel from Russia immigrants from Central Asia, where the idea of ​​Wahhabism is just gaining momentum.

    - of of Russia (capital letter)
    And if the immigrants from Central Asia are already citizens of the Russian Federation?
    And about the feat of immigrants from Central Asia, during the "Second World War" probably already forgotten?
    "Russia is great, but there is nowhere to retreat, behind is Moscow" (c).
    Quote: AK-47
    I think it is necessary to legally ban Wahhabism in Russia, as a religion that threatens the state.

    good
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    But where are the reservations in the Bible, I would like to hear

    Have you read the "Old Testament" (part of the Bible)?
    Apparently not.
    http://www.darkmag.ru/vethii_zavet.htm
    Quote: antiaircrafter
    They will try to break away from the Russians who have long become an important part of Russian civilization - the Tatars.

    good
    Yes, not even simple, Tatars, but all Orthodox Muslims who, together with Orthodox Christians, built and defended one Motherland for all.
    I read the story that Prince Vladimir first wanted to make Islam the main religion in Russia ...
    http://www.bibliotekar.ru/gumilev-lev/15.htm
    and the famous Russian heroes (Ilya Muromets was a Muslim (?))
    "Ilya Muromets and Alyosha Popovich - 'Warriors of Jihad'"
    http://mission-center.com/islams/silantjev.htm
    Quote: LetterKsi
    This is a one-on-one scenario like in Syria.

    Rather, Yugoslavia.
    The right laws, control by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB, the inevitability of punishment for terrorist acts,
    where the relatives and friends of the terrorists will pay the bills - good
    But it is also necessary to think about the Soul.
    Who and when was in the Church?
    And not just was, put a candle, but also communed?
    "Atheism is thin ice, on which one person will pass, but the people will fail" (c)
    Well
    And God blessed them, and God said to them:
    multiply and multiply, and fill the earth

    smile
    1. Tatanka Yotanka
      Tatanka Yotanka 2 November 2013 15: 53
      +3
      Quote: Novik
      Have you read the "Old Testament" (part of the Bible)?
      Apparently not.

      then you don’t know that Christianity begins with the coming of Christ — that is, with the gospel and the new testament, try to find these reservations there
      Quote: Novik
      and the famous Russian heroes (Ilya Muromets was a Muslim (?))
      "Ilya Muromets and Alyosha Popovich - 'Warriors of Jihad'"

      bullshit preaching ecumenism
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 2 November 2013 17: 53
        +1
        Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
        Christianity begins with the coming of Christ — that is, with the gospel and the new covenant

        Matthew 5: 17
        John 5:39, 46.
  • qwert1707
    qwert1707 2 November 2013 14: 16
    +2
    I have one question ...
    And what is our omnipotent FSB doing ?????
    Where is the intelligence work in SA, UAE, Turkey, etc. ???
    Where are the arrests of muftis and imams of the Saudi Habist tendency .. why do they officially penetrate our country ???
    Moreover, they penetrate openly. Not through third countries ...
    Or are we just beginning to start detentions, arrests and liquidations only after terrorist acts already committed ???
    Why not strangle this muck in the bud or take control and use for your own purposes ???
    Or only the "mighty" FSB can cover enterprises and banks ???
    How many stupid policies of officials and the government in relation to the Caucasus will be carried out ???
    1. Starfish
      Starfish 2 November 2013 16: 29
      +3
      "How long will the stupid policy of officials and the government towards the Caucasus be carried out?

      why stupid? can government policy make sense? and even a goal? unknown to us yet. the "enlightened" gurus say here about how order will be restored after the Olympiad. but before her, no, no, otherwise the terrorists will be offended
    2. engine driver
      engine driver 4 November 2013 23: 09
      0
      Wait, soon in all the news will be summaries of reports to the FSEB.
      The impression is that here most of the unsubscribed except the monitor do not see anything at all.
  • Klibanophoros
    Klibanophoros 2 November 2013 14: 17
    +5
    Alas, the situation is already out of control. Power is struck by lack of will, corruption and cruelty at the same time, a civil war is brewing in the country, although there will be little citizenship in it, rather, a dump of all against all.
  • Novik
    Novik 2 November 2013 14: 17
    -3
    I’ll add as I liked it
    If I prove that the truth is before you, then how do you perceive such DISCOVERY, with joy or ... otherwise? Namely Orthodox and Muslims?

    And the proof of the great Truth is this picture, which I built according to all the canons of classical Geometry and Algebra of the East, and not "Archimedes-Euclidean"! This picture can be used to show and prove the Structure of the Unit, as a strict mathematical and physical concept, according to which the Creator "proportioned" this world and man. Remember Protagoras: "Man is the Measure of All Things"? Indeed, such a Structure of the Unit allows a person to calibrate the Unit of Time, hence the Space!

    According to the Koran, this picture is called "signs", which according to Dahl means "symbols" and God gave them to Jews and Christians, but ... someone needed to break this unity.

    If we delve into the essence of this concept: "to break", then here it is similar to "breaking" the connection between the left and right hemispheres in our head, turning into a "one-dimensional person", according to Marcuse! And it is made, of course, "made in the West"!

    When a person understands this picture - its essence (and I will try very hard in this and will soon begin to lay out the material), then our children will easily be able to solve the problem of “squaring a circle” or “doubling a cube” at school!

    They will understand and demonstrate to us, with a compass in their hands, what is the “Golden Corner” about which “songs” have been singing to us for millennia, and most importantly, why is this corner called “golden”? And much more…

    The amazing thing here (for me, first of all) is that I came to this picture involuntarily! Do you understand? It’s like solving a system of equations, which results in the only right answer!

    Another thing is that for more than a year I was “afraid” and did not publish this picture because I did not know and did not know how to: divide a segment with a compass into 5 and 10 parts and then prove it mathematically! (To understand me, try to find such a solution in Geometry)! And I solved this problem, which was the simplest in this series, but also turned out to be the most difficult ....

    Consider the foregoing a "prelude" to the conversation ...

    And one more thing: stop "kicking" acad. A. Fomenko! I do not judge him when he interprets historical facts, but in the field of posing questions and claims to history - 100% right! This he said first: in Russia Orthodoxy and Islam was - One!(I then thought to myself - this is what a man gives, how is this possible?)! Now I ask, again to myself: forgive A. Fomenko!

    http://stalin-ist.livejournal.com/32001.html
    1. Tatanka Yotanka
      Tatanka Yotanka 2 November 2013 16: 12
      +3
      minus for another nonsense
      if the believer is blind, what for him all this symbolism
      their attempt is tolerant to bind the two religions into one new one, as if we had them but between Christianity and Islam, the abyss
      “I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me "(John 14: 6).
      He who is not with Me is against Me. Matthew (12:30)
      try to convince the Muslims
      1. Novik
        Novik 2 November 2013 16: 53
        +1
        Minus put your right.
        The sighted, or blind (in your understanding) is looking for something that can unite us all.
        Do you understand?
        - Searches, desires.
        Something does.
        Only for this one, I liked him.
        Apparently, you know everything and know how it should be ...
        Teach, justify, lead ...
        But stupidly, criticism, and I, like everyone else, can do it.
      2. Novik
        Novik 2 November 2013 17: 04
        0
        Show us your not delirium.
        He cited the author’s link (you put a minus to me because I liked the point of view of a person whose opinion does not coincide with yours?) - can there, here, with the permission of the moderators, of course ...
        - and preferably with a compass in hand ... laughing
        1. Tatanka Yotanka
          Tatanka Yotanka 2 November 2013 19: 46
          +2
          Quote: Novik
          Minus put your right.

          and I use it like everyone
          Quote: Novik
          Show us your not delirium.

          on this issue my opinion and not mine, I have already given in the comments
          Quote: Novik
          Apparently,

          have they really studied me?
          Quote: Novik
          You all know and know how it should be ...

          I do not pretend to be this is your assumption
          Quote: Novik
          You put a minus to me because I liked the point of view of a person whose opinion does not coincide with yours?)

          everything is right, and I justified it, at least I did not slap it from under the silence
          1. Novik
            Novik 2 November 2013 22: 18
            0
            Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
            everything is right, and I justified it, at least I did not slap it from under the silence

            And where did you justify it, with a compass in your hands?
            divide the segment with compasses into 5 and 10 parts and then prove it mathematically

            why is this angle called "golden"?

            and where about
            “Squared circle” or “doubling a cube”
            ?
            Suleymanova Magomed Ali - I know
            http://stalin-ist.livejournal.com/32001.html (его много кто знает,и уважает), а Вас увы нет. sad
            Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
            not slammed out from under the silence
            - You slapped for the link.
            And this is even worse.
            This is not my opinion, you put a minus to me for the fact that, for example, the Sun rises.
            And most importantly, not "out of the tishka" -aga.
            And now, probably out of nobility, should put a plus in person?
            Catch.
  • baku1999
    baku1999 2 November 2013 14: 35
    +2
    ETHE LADIES AND LADIES, COLLECT IN ONE HEAD AND RESET THERE WHERE THE MAKAR CALVES DO NOT PASS. stop
  • Troy
    Troy 2 November 2013 14: 49
    +5
    I wonder what any tolerant cockerel thinks about this. In which case, they will also be cut without disassembling. As for me, I don’t understand: I pay taxes from which the salary is paid to all special services, and where is the result. Fuck, they know about the sites of extremists and that they can not figure out where they are? Yeah, they didn’t open the banks, otherwise they would have found them in a swoop. It’s more profitable to lick the asshole and protect the interests of the elite than to fight for the country and the people. (Dangerous) I do not mean ordinary employees, I mean the leadership.
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 2 November 2013 15: 16
      0
      I support your fair indignation at the inaction of law enforcement agencies. Although I do not like them, I will try to intercede for them a little. That’s why they and law enforcement bodies are very difficult to adhere to this legal field in order to act within the framework of the legal field, and in the fight against extremism. In the practice of countering extremism in other countries, the activity of organizations and groups operating, let's say, not quite in the legal field, shows high efficiency, while law enforcement agencies also show some inaction to them.
      1. Troy
        Troy 2 November 2013 15: 24
        +1
        Yeah, in other countries they can, but with us they are so law-abiding that everyone goes with halo laughing
  • Boot under the carpet
    Boot under the carpet 2 November 2013 15: 10
    +3
    You can of course blame me for everything, but I’ll say ... All of this as a whole is a quiet plan for the destruction of the Russian nation and Russia as an integral state.
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 2 November 2013 15: 59
      0
      Quote: Boot under the carpet
      You can of course blame me for everything, but I’ll say ... All of this as a whole is a quiet plan for the destruction of the Russian nation and Russia as an integral state.

      Yes, it seems so. And the scoops then believed in the good king - Putler.
    2. Letterksi
      Letterksi 2 November 2013 16: 20
      +5
      It would be time for everyone to realize this. It's almost too late to realize

      Here is what is already underway. It is necessary to change the power and as soon as possible. This power sooner or later pits peoples

      1. Normal
        Normal 2 November 2013 18: 14
        +9
        Quote: Boot under the carpet
        . All this as a whole is a quiet plan for the destruction of the Russian nation and Russia as an integral state.

        Quote: LetterKsi
        This power sooner or later pits peoples

        For several years, 11 (according to official data) migrants hostile towards the indigenous population of Russia have been sent into the country. They are actively granted citizenship. Let's add here migration from the Caucasus, which is not included in this number. If we do not forget that this contingent feels like the winner of the Russians (the massacre of Russians in Chechnya and the expulsion of Russians from Central Asia) and believes that the territory they entered was given to them by Allah, then we must understand that these are the very "citizens" who are called unleash a civil war.
        All calls not to succumb to provocations, all talk about the friendship of peoples, all attempts to convince us that foreigners are good, and that we are bad, we are Russian nationalists, are called to lull our minds. Prevent Russians from realizing the extent of the threat. Do not allow the titular nation to begin the necessary cleansing and treatment of the seriously ill organism of the state. All this suggests that it is not too late, that the enemies are not yet ready, there are still too few of them. When there are enough newly converted "citizens", under the leadership of the Caucasians, they will move from words to deeds. Then the CIVIL WAR will begin.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Novik
    Novik 2 November 2013 15: 40
    +7
    Quote: Boot under the carpet
    You can of course blame me for everything, but I’ll say ... All of this as a whole is a quiet plan for the destruction of the Russian nation and Russia as an integral state.

    Maybe there is a plan, but what prevents us, Russians, hoping for God, not to make mistakes ourselves, to “multiply” (the word is certainly not the best one, but what it is) and to be one whole.
    And this is the main problem. Every year there are fewer and fewer Russians, and not only are there fewer, they are still scattered, not "chained" by ideology (or, for example, religion - almost all are atheists ... "Only when you come to die, you bogies, will you wheeze, scratching the edge of the mattress, the lines from Alexander, and not the nonsense of Taras "(c).laughing )
    Why give birth to another baby, when this season it’s fashionable to relax in
    Spain, Thailand, you need to buy a new car.
    We ourselves are to blame, we lost reference points, we weigh in the void.
    I was taught - "no one will ever have more power over us than we ourselves allow" (c).
    And no "wickedness", until we ourselves succumb to temptations, has no power over us, and even without our invitation, will not enter the house.
  • iConst
    iConst 2 November 2013 16: 46
    -1
    Quote: Novik
    And no "nothing"иst "until we ourselves succumb to temptations, has no power over us, and even without our invitation, will not enter the house
    You yourself answered this question - why.

    Having just let’s sit here with three shabby topics.

    But in reality - everything is simple. There is a theory of Khabarik.
    It is simple - look at yourself, you yourself throw a cigarette butt under your feet? Without hesitation?

    So, for all the harmlessness of this act, this is the fundamental basis for non-compliance with everything and everything.
    It:
    1. Shows that this does not consider street, city, country home. But it excites at the same time that the newcomers behave as they want.
    2. Doesn’t respect others - crap..l on everything and doesn’t even think that there are people (and many!) Who are unpleasant and they do this do not do!

    You can continue on. But all this is cattle behavior. has no rights to anything. Especially on such a vast territory, as Gondoliza Rise said.