There will be no planes in 2024

271
There will be no planes in 2024

Well, actually. The battles around the article have died down When Russia finally lands?, less than a month has passed since everything said in the material came to where we predicted.

“In general, the “successes” are so-so. And how do UAC representatives announce the construction of 600 vehicles by 2030? However, this has already happened in our country: today we loudly and tastefully say that by 2030 the Russian aviation industry will build 600 winged aircraft, and what will happen there in 2030 is a second question.



But it is not difficult to predict the complete failure of the promises, looking at the ghostly Tupolevs, which were never assembled last year, and may not be assembled this year either.

But this is different.

The principle “today we promise loudly, tomorrow we will come up with something to justify it” is being implemented by our officials at all levels of government much more clearly than plans to build castles in the air. Unfortunately".

“And UAC and Rostec don’t have much time. No, of course, if justifications for disrupting another program have already been invented today, as was the case with “import substitution,” then there are no questions here. But then one question remains: will we fly on something other than balloons, or is it time to start preparing?”


And now, not even two weeks have passed since the UAC makes a statement that the delivery dates for MS-21, Superjet New, Tu-214 and Il-114-300 aircraft with entirely Russian components will be shifted. Naturally, to the right. And the dates are now called not 2024, which is already in full swing, but 2026.

Moreover, information began to appear in various publications that even if the aircraft were manufactured within the specified time frame, their characteristics would be radically different from those originally stated.

Well, with our optimism, we did not expect anything else, I will only note that by 2026 we will be ready to raise documents from That articles and comment on the successes of the UAC in full. This will be fair, since in Russia today the tendency has become very strong to bravo on camera to announce the date by which everything will be ready, and by the date to arrange complete silence and grace, as if nothing was promised.

In 2023, there was a large meeting within the walls of the Moscow Aviation Institute on the topic “Who is to blame?” and “What should I do?” That is, the problems of import substitution were discussed. Figures were announced: representatives of Yakovlev reported that 21 imported systems and components needed to be replaced in the MS-36, Sukhoi gave a figure of 37 components for the Superjet. And this is only for two aircraft that were initially declared as domestic!


That is, the situation turned out like this:
- you need to develop the necessary details in the drawings;
- connect the parts into units;
- prepare the necessary technical documentation for production;
- produce parts “in metal”;
- assemble the parts into a unit;
- carry out bench tests for strength, performance, service life;
- carry out full-scale tests on the aircraft;
- certify first the products, and then the aircraft with these products;
- determine the manufacturer of the parts;
- prepare a set of assembly documentation;
- begin production of units, testing, rejection and gradual replacement of imported ones.

A “subtle” point: if the decision was initially made to install imported equipment, components and parts on aircraft, this first of all indicates that we did not have this in foreseeable production.

In theory, that is, on paper, all products today have already been developed. This is not even what they say in the UAC, this is what they say in the OKB. The question is a test, and there are many difficult moments here. It is because of the tests that the PD-14 and PD-8 engines seem to exist in theory, but in practice they are not. Although they also exist in metal. But until the test cycle passes, there will be no certificate. Until there is a certificate, the aircraft with engines is not allowed to fly.

And of course, not a single manufacturing company will transfer its uncertified aircraft to airlines, even if the entire Russian aircraft fleet remains on the ground. Responsibility, you know, is such a thing... not very rewarding at times.

In one interview with MS-21 testers, it was said that one of the problems was too tight a time frame for testing and fine-tuning the equipment. Yes, as it was in the USSR: at any cost to the next party congress, but do it. And the MS-21 test program of 20 flights per month was approved. And everyone understood perfectly well that this was a completely unrealistic figure, because it’s simply impossible to drive a new car without breaking anything.


It (the equipment) must be tested in such a way that all shortcomings and defects can be identified. But if a situation arises where something in the system fails, breaks down, or malfunctions occur, then another operating algorithm is launched:
- tests are stopped;
- the product is removed, sent for examination, and the cause of the breakdown is determined;
- problems and shortcomings are eliminated;
- the modified/redesigned product is installed on the aircraft and testing continues.

Here's the third point right away: what if some part needs to be reworked? That is, the first algorithm is launched first, the part is made, the unit is assembled and everything goes off.

But is this done in a day? Of course not. So what are 20 flights a month? It is clear that those who developed and approved such a program did not have the slightest idea (or did not want to understand) how everything works. But this is normal for us today: whatever you want, it should be ready yesterday.

Well, in the end, a shift of two years. Some media outlets have already begun to put out information that, they say, the year 2026 was initially included in the plan, and then (!!!) Rostec “moved the deadlines to the left.” I don’t remember when this happened in the country, and my colleagues can’t remember either. But the way we know how to lie...

But the main thing is that deadlines are determined and approved by some, and fulfilled by others. But the further we go, the worse things will get for us, because there are fewer and fewer people doing the work and the quality is getting worse. The personnel problem is a problem that we prefer to remain silent about, and speak only when excuses are needed. Meanwhile, those involved in development are indeed becoming fewer and fewer, and funding for scientific development is becoming more modest from year to year. Hence the result.

And here I don’t even urge everyone to believe me a priori, but whoever has contacts in the Yakovlev Design Bureau, find out how many years and why a group of 42 people unsuccessfully tried to repeat the baking of the MS-21 wingtip. Import to replace American parts. It will be informative to know this history first-hand.

Further. Next, I would like to raise an aspect such as logistics. That is, timely delivery of materials. Picture: during testing, it turned out that the part was insufficiently strong. Let's call it “Product 47”. To manufacture the part, an aluminum blank weighing 12 kg is required. You will need a dozen details for everything. It is clear that the OKB is not engaged in aluminum smelting; this is a question for related companies. And they have their own laws, what can we say if the first batches of LNG from a plant built with budget money went not just abroad, but to an openly hostile country...

That is, any metal smelting plant will easily put OKB with its 100-kg order in the queue, because with regards to aluminum, there may be an order from the same KNAAZ for tens or hundreds of tons. Let's not forget what time we live in. War. And let it be called SVO, Tanks there they burn in exactly the same way, and planes are shot down, just like in the most ordinary war. And therefore military orders will have priority.

It is all clear, there is a possibility that the ministries understand everything and these problems are being solved, but the fact that they exist was voiced in the same Ministry of Industry and Trade in terms of the fact that the State Defense Order is much more important than everything else. Including civilian aviation.

Of course, sooner or later the SVO will end and everything will return to normal. The losses incurred will be compensated and the factories will gladly switch to producing civilian equipment. This is a completely normal practice, the only question here is time.

And time, especially when debugging a new product, is a consumable item like everything else. And everyone faces delays and offsets. Even Elon Musk.

Experts say that developing a new commercial airliner will take 10 years. There are cases when developers meet shorter deadlines, but the global average is: 10-12 years.


True, there are exceptions, just like what happened with the MS-21 and the Superjet. This is when the plane was made using the Lego system, that is, they took a project and adapted existing components and assemblies to it. In general, this is a common practice, both Boeing and Airbus do this, and there is nothing wrong with it, except for one thing: the aircraft begins to depend on third-party manufacturers. Again, nothing if politics does not interfere. In our case, she intervened and the planes actually landed on three points.

What remains? Yes, import substitution. But replacement also requires money and time. The situation is clear as day: the principle “If we don’t have our own, we’ll buy it.” Moreover, it could have been in development, but they preferred to buy it.

History already knows more than a dozen examples when Russian developments were discarded because they could buy imported ones and make money on it. Well, now the imported goods have run out, but ours is gone. You have to develop your own from scratch, and this is very difficult in our time.

And in this regard, many today are saying that absolutely all Russian commercial airliners will not be the same as previously stated, they will be heavier and with poorer flight characteristics.

Everything here is very twofold. Firstly, the prototype has always and at all times been different from the production aircraft. For the better, since it was assembled with somewhat different hands than production aircraft. There are plenty of examples in history, just take the same “Air Cobra”, with which there was such a scandal at one time: during demonstration flights, the R-39 produced 650-670 km/h and generally behaved like a bird. But the first production copies that Great Britain bought did not want to fly at such a speed, giving out 100 km/h less. And the Americans, in response to the indignant cries of the British, modestly made a move and said that this was an exhibition copy, but this is a production one...

And it's the same with us. Let’s say if our specialists couldn’t replicate the carbon fiber part of the wing, made from American materials, they would send the usual aluminum into battle. Naturally, the weight would increase. In general, we (UAC) found ourselves in a very difficult situation with components, which was created artificially. And there’s nothing you can do about it, you’ll have to put up with it and somehow start doing your own thing. Not to buy Chinese, although the Chinese have about the same aircraft manufacturing as ours, but to buy our own. Then over time there will be a level.

If we are talking about MS-21, then everything is simple: Rostec told reporters that “the final appearance of the completely import-substituted aircraft will be formed in the second half of this year”. Accordingly, there is no question of any release of 6 units of MS-21 in accordance with the order of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 2259-r dated August 22, 2023, which some representatives of the same Rostec shoved so hard in our faces; can not. But it's not as scary as it seems at first glance.

In general, there is information that in Irkutsk, in varying stages of assembly, there are 12 MS-21 units. But the point here is not even that they are not assembled, but that those six vehicles that should be delivered in 2024 and postponed for delivery in 2025-2026, they will wait until the end of the tests and only then be delivered to the customer . Having passed certification, of course.

Here the delay is not so bad, but: in 2025, the UAC must deliver another 12 MS-21s, which with six aircraft in 2024 is already 18 aircraft. Do you have that much in reserve? Will there be room to start assembling 22 MS-21s according to the 2026 plan?

Here it is clear that the “stalling” aircraft production program will be moved to the right ad infinitum, precisely because the first stage has failed. But here a delay of a year or two is not fatal, although it does threaten trouble.

And “Superjets”, which according to information from the editor-in-chief of the Avia.ru portal Roman Gusarov, 16 pieces have already been collected, they are also standing and waiting.

— Serial production of cars is already underway and will not stop. Let's say, the other day one of the bloggers had a report from the enterprise in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, where the SJ-100 is produced. It showed nine cars parked on the premises of the enterprise. According to my information, a total of 16 aircraft were assembled. As for the MS-21, 12 units have been assembled here.

— The main task here is to fine-tune the PD-8 engine. The process is currently at the flight testing stage. So, it will take more time until 2026. In general, it usually takes about two years from the first flight to the final version, when the vehicle is delivered to customers.

The situation is approximately the same with the PD-14, the “source” from which we started when working on the PD-8.

And you don’t have to touch the hydraulics, electronics, avionics and other components of the aircraft; problems with the engines are more than enough for the aircraft to remain in hangars or storage areas.

The main problem of today (and tomorrow) is that not a single one of the advertised and praised engines of the PD family (PD-14, PD-35, PD-8) has gone into series or is being mass-produced. And without engines there will be no planes.

The second problem is the lack of normal personnel, personnel shortage both in production and in the management of UAC-Rostec. Well, judge for yourself, the President of Russia delivers a message to the Federal Assembly to the whole country, saying that the country needs a large number of new aircraft, because the economy is developing, air transportation is required to increase significantly, in general, further development of the entire program for re-equipping the aviation industry is required...

And here you are on the same day - yes, yes, Vladimir Vladimirovich, everything is so, but we consulted at the UAC and decided to move the implementation of your programs to the right for a couple of years.

It just causes amazement and the question: what, on another day it was impossible to make such a bang? The obligatory condition is not to fulfill the promise and frame the president? Two in one bottle, as they say.

Who orders this music anyway?


Apparently, those who want orders and medals for their numbers. This is where these mythical 1000 aircraft appear in 6 years, oh no, 800, more precisely, 600. But we will definitely make 500 without light engines, that is, by 400 we will give 2030 airliners, as promised, all 300 in the sky. And 200 brand new planes will carry Russians on their wings throughout the country and beyond.

I wonder if they will manage at least a hundred aircraft by 2030?

Of course, in 2030 we will have an unforgettable show of intense passions. UAC and everyone else will tell you why they did not master the plan they themselves wrote to produce thousands of aircraft. It will really be interesting to listen, because their effective managers will have to come up with something more interesting than international sanctions on completely (according to reports) import-substituted purely Russian aircraft.


Of course, writing essentially worthless pieces of paper with hundreds of mythical aircraft is much easier than answering the question why we still don’t have engines that have been developed almost since the beginning of Russian modern history?

Because we have a systemic personnel crisis. We don't have enough professionals in our country. There was a substitution when, instead of aviation specialists, these came... who are effective. Who are excellent at giving a presentation, giving an interview, speaking in front of an audience or on camera. But they don’t know a damn thing about what they should know about—building airplanes.

And it was these people who at one time at the MAKS exhibition did not allow the great Genrikh Vasilyevich Novozhilov back in 2003 to talk to the president and simply show him the difference between his “Il” and the rest of the “Boeings” and “Airbuses”. There were no kickbacks for Ilya, which is why we have what we have today.

Probably, these gentlemen are hoping to the last that a separate peace will be concluded and everything will return to normal. And again old Boeings will flow into the air fleets like a river, and legally earned money will flow into their pockets. From Europeans and Americans.

It is clear that you cannot buy a villa in Spain on Ila. And a golf club.

The reality is that with a full complement of these unpatriotic and ignorant liars, we really have a nightmare in terms of the availability of engineers, designers, technologists and workers. There is not enough of everything, there is not enough of the practically destroyed system of vocational education, there is not enough of our own machine tool industry, which has also been practically destroyed, there is not enough spare parts for the imported machine tools, which because of this turn into expensive scrap metal.

Let me end by quoting one of the truly brilliant Soviet and Russian aircraft designers with a capital letter, Genrikh Novozhilov: “Our industry leaders are not experts in the field they supervise.”.


He had the right to say such words, a man who gave his entire life to the aviation of our country until his last day. And Novozhilov, unlike many “effective” ones, saw the essence of the problems plaguing the Russian aviation industry.

Without aviation, Russia and its territory are simply not serious. We need aviation. Passenger, transport, military - our own. Independent from anyone. Neither from foreign suppliers, it doesn’t matter, from the West or from “friendly partners” from the East, it doesn’t matter at all.

And Russia doesn’t need pieces of paper and loud statements on camera – Russia needs airplanes. I wonder if this will ever be understood where these worthless plans are written?
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  1. +41
    12 March 2024 04: 13
    Boeing's revenue is about 100 billion. dollars. Think about it, as the head of a company, you would spend, say, 0,1 percent of revenue to ensure that you are lagging behind your competitors. Well, now imagine what a smuggler with a suitcase of money can do...
    1. +67
      12 March 2024 04: 35
      “Our industry leaders are not experts in the field they supervise.”
      And so in all areas....
      1. -8
        12 March 2024 14: 19
        And so in all areas.
        I hope this statement does not apply to the sphere of the president? Although he should have eyes and ears. Not seeing the obvious.
        1. +12
          12 March 2024 18: 40
          By the way, news on topic.
          An engineer who worked for Boeing for 32 years and testified in court that the company used low-quality parts in the assembly was found dead in his car.
          The most interesting thing is that “according to preliminary estimates, he inflicted a mortal wound on himself.”
          They work rudely. We have forgotten how to cause accidents.
          1. +2
            13 March 2024 02: 57
            Quote: Shurik70
            By the way, news on topic.
            An engineer who worked for Boeing for 32 years and testified in court that the company used low-quality parts in the assembly was found dead in his car.

            But this is really a very good chance to return to the major leagues in the civil aircraft industry in a relatively short time. The failure in quality control and the quality of personnel, the damaged reputation of Boeing, gives us a chance for a very good market share, even in those countries where we could not even imagine before.
            But there is a condition - we urgently need to replace imports, revive lost competencies and production, and train tens (if not more) of thousands of highly qualified specialists. The task is difficult, but not hopeless. There is only one catch - with citizen Manturov at the head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, we will NEVER solve this problem.
            ... Besides, it’s time to disperse this wonderful office (Ministry of Industry and Trade) into departments. And departments will again be given the status of line ministries. Including the Ministry of Aviation Industry. Then there will be someone to ask.
            But we really have a chance and it’s simply golden (the stars rarely align like that) and if we really have a completely domestic product (MS-21 and Superjet) in mass production by the end of the decade with the readiness to organize service and support, we will be in the next decade We will be able to get up to 20-25% of the market in this segment. (taking into account the appearance of Chinese aircraft of the same class)
            And if instead of Manturov and his camarilla (what if a miracle happens), a sane team appears and we return to the joint project with China (in which we have already invested 50% of its cost) CR-929 and, without twisting Manturov’s cunning fillet, we will SIMPLY set up production of this airliner at home ... Under the Il-929 brand... Then we will be able not only to satisfy the domestic market with such aircraft (from 100 to 200 units, according to experts), but also to offer it to the foreign market. What is not an alternative to "Dreamliner"? And the PD-35 engine can be useful not only for this long-range aircraft, but also for creating a new transport / military transport aircraft with a payload of up to 80 tons, capable of transporting one MBT and a supply vehicle (with ammo and fuel) in one flight. Possible on the basis of a glider Il-76MD90A, but with a wider fuselage so that the tank can be carried with all its weight. With two PD-35. Such a plane would be very useful to us. It will be more economical than the IL-76MD and have a 1,5 times greater payload capacity. The market prospects are simply gorgeous. And we ourselves will need 200-300 of these pieces (together with civilians).
            Frames?
            They need to be COOKED.
            Starting from school. remember the Soviet experience. And stop all this stupid entertainment. Youth need to be inspired to ACHIEVEMENT.

            In conclusion, I would like to repeat that the one who killed the domestic aviation industry, consciously and enthusiastically, will never revive it. just on principle. And due to the inability to create.
            New wine (new tasks) is not poured into old wineskins. .. They (the bellows) will tear, spoil the wine and not solve problems.
            1. -5
              13 March 2024 09: 46
              And where in the world can so many suicides ride on our semi-finished products?
            2. +1
              13 March 2024 19: 47
              Quote: bayard
              If we really have a completely domestic product (MS-21 and Superjet) in serial production by the end of the decade with the readiness to organize service and support, we will be able to gain up to 20-25% of the market in this segment over the next decade.


              It is fantastic. Even if they start mass production of aircraft by 2030, they will be one-off units, well, let them gain momentum, but still there will be huge demand (in the domestic market), taking into account the sanctions and the fact that Western aircraft will be completely out of service by this time. those. servicing/purchasing parts will be very problematic, demand will not cover supply. They can, of course, try to scale up production, but where will they get the staff? And they won’t really bother like that... if now civil aviation is not a priority (when you can hang any noodles on deadlines and there is nothing for it), then in the future it is unlikely that anything will change. And if we manage to launch mass production - at least a small quantity - then it will be a victory, and the current elite will be completely satisfied with this.

              Further, if we are talking about the foreign market, will there be any problems with customer service due to sanctions? It is doubtful that the US and the EU will simply watch as we try to squeeze% out of the market.

              Well, there is the problem of the price tag, how expensive will these planes be compared to their counterparts from Boeing and Airbus? Obviously more expensive, and many times more.

              In general, the idea is interesting, but knowing the realities and the whole range of problems... won't shoot (c)

              Quote: bayard
              And if instead of Manturov and his camarilla (what if a miracle happens) a sane team appears and we return to the joint project with China (in which we have already invested 50% of its cost) CR-929


              The Chinese are no longer waiting for us. In addition, after the launch of the CR-929 series, the demand in the domestic market will be huge, there are already a lot of orders there + it uses foreign parts, including the engine... with all the ensuing problems. And no one will give this project to us (for production), where have you seen the Chinese share such projects? And even if a miracle happened and we suddenly got it, there would be a problem with import substitution of parts/engine, etc. generally not an option.
              1. -3
                13 March 2024 21: 27
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                It's fantastic.

                Reality is sometimes cooler than fiction.
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                Even if mass production of aircraft is launched by 2030, these will be one-off units,

                We have ready-made production lines capable of producing (building) 30-40 Superjets and 70 MS-21s per year. The production workshops and assembly lines are NEW and are only waiting for the cooperation enterprises to be ready to supply import-substituted components. As soon as their certification is completed, these production facilities will reach their designed capacity within a few (3-4 years maximum). And if necessary (demand), these capacities can be scaled. If the sanctions had not blocked our ability to obtain the components that were originally included in these projects, these aircraft would have long been in mass production and operated on airlines.
                So if the issue of import substitution is resolved, organizing serial production will not become a problem. Precisely serial, and not piece-meal, as you described.
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                They can, of course, try to scale up production, but where will they get the staff?

                Prepare . Grants for 100 budget places have now been allocated for engineering specialties. For those entering universities. And vocational schools with technical schools under new names/terms are now being created - to train qualified personnel.
                Quote: Aleksandr21
                if civil aviation is not a priority now

                It is now a top priority, and huge funds are allocated for it.
                Performers?
                Here's the question. To Manturov - the main gravedigger of our Industry. Incl. and Aviation Industry. There are many QUESTIONS for him. Including questions about his deputy, who has now handed over all the information in England on our Defense Industry and on the defense system of Crimea (former governor of Sevastopol). How to continue to tolerate this hoarse saboteur and saboteur in such a position is a question for the current candidate for the presidency of the Russian Federation. If he wants his decrees, orders and instructions to be carried out, then leaders of the appropriate level, qualifications and responsibility will appear in such posts. With Manturov, NOTHING will work out. They will steal, screw up any business, sabotage everything, but promise thirty-three boxes.
                Cadres decide everything.
                Personnel like Manturov decide everything to the detriment of collapse and failure.
                If the presidential candidate wants the money to be stolen and the planes never to appear, Manturov will remain in his post.
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            20 March 2024 03: 40
            Quote: Shurik70
            By the way, news on topic.
            An engineer who worked for Boeing for 32 years and testified in court that the company used low-quality parts in the assembly was found dead in his car.
            The most interesting thing is that “according to preliminary estimates, he inflicted a mortal wound on himself.”
            They work rudely. We have forgotten how to cause accidents.

            Not rude, but revealing! So that everyone understands and is afraid to repeat it! DemocracyS...
        2. aba
          +4
          13 March 2024 00: 08
          Why doesn't it apply!? Is he leading another country!? Although I noticed that he’s not talking about galoshes for nothing. It was he who created the system where you can only talk about galoshes. And remember his words about Mr. Poroshenko’s Russian business, and then it will become clear what he cares about and what he cares about.
        3. +1
          13 March 2024 01: 02
          Hope....I would like to, but alas, reality shows the opposite..
        4. 0
          14 March 2024 13: 55
          Quote: ordin64
          Hope to the sphere

          The hopes of the young are nourished, joy is given to the old...
      2. +11
        12 March 2024 16: 00
        SVO only confirms the above idea.
        And this is not only in aviation. This is everywhere and in everything (automotive industry, education, healthcare, ....).
        At first they knocked everything down, now the same ones who knocked it down are raising it.
        1. 0
          14 March 2024 14: 04
          So it’s not the 37th, when those who failed no longer raised and did not rise
        2. +1
          18 March 2024 13: 15
          They don't raise it. They imitate the rise.
      3. -3
        12 March 2024 17: 26
        These are all the little things in life. The main thing is to vote for Vladimir Vladimirovich this week.
        1. -1
          13 March 2024 10: 04
          Sarcasm is noticeable. Tell me, do you really imagine Kharitonov, Slutsky or, God forgive me, Vladik as the President of the Russian Federation?! Well, there are no candidates! Who to choose from?
          1. +3
            13 March 2024 16: 01
            But you really don’t understand why in such a large state as Russia, for a quarter of a century, no worthy candidates for this post have appeared? Do you really believe that they degenerated on Russian land?
          2. -1
            14 March 2024 14: 07
            What do you understand in naval humor!
      4. +2
        12 March 2024 23: 50
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        “Our industry leaders are not experts in the field they supervise.”
        And so in all areas....

        The management (not the design engineers, but the management) should be “moved” to the new “sharashkas” (somewhere in the vicinity of Magadan...) - until the task is completed - completed a task of national importance - return home (somewhere in the Moscow region).
        You can manage a government project via Internet connection (secure line) remotely.
    2. +37
      12 March 2024 05: 17
      Quote: arhitroll
      Well, now imagine what a smuggler with a suitcase of money can do
      Well, now imagine that in the USSR the aviation industry was created in just two five-year plans! And imagine that now some 30 unfortunate units cannot “replace imports”
      1. -14
        12 March 2024 06: 29
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Imagine that in the USSR the aviation industry was created in just two five-year plans!

        And after Churchill announced the “Crusade” in Fulton, the USSR bought jet engines from England for Military airplanes. The sworn enemies sold military technologies to the USSR, they don’t sell this to the Russian Federation. Whom the West considered the big enemy in such situations. - boring question..
        1. +24
          12 March 2024 07: 00
          Quote: your1970
          And after Churchill announced the “Crusade” in Fulton, the USSR bought jet engines for military aircraft from England
          Only a few pieces were purchased there; the rest we modified and produced ourselves. But I really don’t understand how they sold this to us at the height of the Cold War. Probably a business. The Grin of Capitalism wink
          1. -5
            12 March 2024 07: 29
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            Only a few pieces were purchased there

            Newest military technology
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            But I really don’t understand how they sold this to us at the height of the Cold War. Probably a business. The Grin of Capitalism
            everything is simpler. The West did not consider the USSR either a real enemy or a competitor.
            Therefore Christy / breeding horses for stud farms / Derwents / serial Toshiba with a series of 1 piece lol /gas pipelines and other other...
            As soon as capitalism came to us, we became the worst enemy of the West. They encroached on the sacred - on the loot....
            At one time, the Zhiguli was sold without any strain - the unfortunate Opel with a luxurious offer was simply not sold. And this is one of the high-profile ones - there were many attempts to buy technologies / factories, only a single one was sold
            1. +19
              12 March 2024 08: 11
              Quote: your1970
              simpler. The West did not consider the USSR either a real enemy or a competitor
              This is when in Eastern Europe there were more than a million soldiers in military uniform, and even those with war experience behind them? Is this when the communist movements in Italy and France were gaining momentum? wink wink
              1. +28
                12 March 2024 08: 28
                Great article! Thanks to the author! In fact, no one at the top understands the complexity of the aviation industry, but tries to manage it and the clowning begins with unrealistic deadlines and stupid tossing around.
                For the aviation industry to start working, the aviation industry needs to be headed by someone of Novozhilov’s level and not by the swindler Chemezov. In order to create an aircraft in 10 years and launch it into series, you need to have ready-made factories, ready workers and engineers, as well as a competent team of managers who are able to understand the complexity of replacing even the engine mount on an aircraft undergoing testing and the consequences of such a replacement.
                In reality, they are now making a new aircraft and it is no longer the MS-21 or the Superjet-100, these are other aircraft with different characteristics, and even in the conditions of destroyed factories that produced the necessary components and the absence of specialists at these factories. This matter may take more than 10 years, and of course, if those who lead our country and the aviation industry could think, they would not irresponsibly declare a thousand aircraft by 2030, but would work out real plans, such as restoring the airworthiness of the Tu-204 and Il-96 and restoration of production of Tu-204/214 and Il-96-400M, relying on experience and suppliers with the new Il-76, which began to be produced at least 5 times in Ulyanovsk.
                And of course, in parallel, the MS-21 and Superjet must be launched into production within a reasonable time frame.
                1. +22
                  12 March 2024 09: 15
                  I read the article and comments! The level of technical training is zero. Political scientists breed political science. One more time for everyone. There are two technical problems.
                  The first makes the MS-21 and Superjet planes DEAD. This is a Canadian-American joystick control system. It cannot be copied and the planes must be redesigned and our control systems with control wheels installed. Instead of honestly saying this and presenting a plan, they lie to you and promise the impossible. This time!
                  Second: the problem is not in the engines, but in the auxiliary equipment on them, or rather in the aircraft units installed on the engines. These are pumps and generators and drive devices. The PD-14 and PD-8 engines are made for imported parts. The fact that we have problems with such units is a fact. But military planes fly, which means the problem, in principle, can be solved. We need to recognize this and work on it. And they lie to you again... They are waiting until they can buy again, like the Chinese buy everything from their “enemies.” Now everything is clear. We have cowardly and lying promises everywhere... No one wants or knows how to make decisions and be responsible for them. Everywhere. And the TU-214 is slowed down, Liberoids!!! If the MS-21 and Superjet are just “fairy tales,” then tell everyone and do at least something.
                  1. +12
                    12 March 2024 09: 38
                    Addition. This is the opinion of a technical expert. Here is an article from 2016. If you are interested, read it and you will understand everything.
                    https://aviation21.ru/ms-21/
                    The aircraft is controlled using a fly-by-wire fly-by-wire control system - control signals from the cockpit are transmitted to the actuators of the rudders and the takeoff and landing mechanization of the wing via wires using electrical signals. The MC-21 is equipped with the latest generation of EDS from UTC Aerospace Systems (United Technologies Aerospace Systems, USA) with active side control sticks - joysticks (HOTAS). The joystick combines the advantages of both the side stick and the yoke, providing the pilot with feedback on aerodynamic flight conditions - when approaching flight limits, a high-frequency vibration occurs in the stick.

                    The automatic control system installed in the aircraft provides a full range of control functions

                    And the PD-14 engine was not developed for our aircraft with our units, but simply to replace the American one. Do you understand the difference?
                    Chemezovs and Manturins shoot...
                    1. -1
                      12 March 2024 21: 16
                      Quote: Vitov

                      And the PD-14 engine was not developed for our aircraft with our units, but simply to replace the American one. Do you understand the difference?
                      Chemezovs and Manturins shoot...

                      Yes, this is all so true, they decided to take a shortcut... apparently they couldn’t develop it from scratch, if they want to restore production of the D-18T, then that says a lot...
                      1. 0
                        13 March 2024 04: 13
                        Quote: Esso
                        .apparently they couldn’t develop it from scratch,

                        The PD-14 was developed from scratch, and specifically for itself. Separate components of the control system and fuel system were unified, because part of the MS-21 fleet was supposed to fly on American engines. . . which were also developed specifically for us, according to our order and with our money. It was a safety net. The project really was not designed for such sanctions. But now the entire line of new engines will be entirely our own, without any cooperation.
                        If Manturov doesn’t sabotage everything again.
                        Quote: Esso
                        if they want D-18T to restore production

                        It is necessary to replace the engines on all Ruslans in service and in reserve. Why a new engine if the aircraft, its fuel system and control system are designed specifically for this engine? In addition, with this engine it is possible to resume production of the An-124M, which was planned to be done back in 2015 together with Ukraine. Now we will do it ourselves. The fuel efficiency of the D-18T is at the level of the PS-90A, which is installed on the Il-96 and Il-76MD-90A. For a transport aircraft this is not bad even today.
                        And that really says a lot. Before this, they were only repaired in the Russian Federation, but now they will be mass-produced. This is a Soviet engine, so there can be no talk of “unlicensed production”. And Zaporozhye has been part of the Russian Federation since the fall of 2022.
                        Any objections?
                      2. 0
                        15 March 2024 12: 03
                        The PD-14 was developed from scratch, and specifically for itself. Separate components of the control system and fuel system were unified, because part of the MS-21 fleet was supposed to fly on American engines. . . which were also developed specifically for us, according to our order and with our money. It was a safety net.

                        Well, what are you writing? Is this with your experience? It was developed from scratch, but instead of the American one, with its aircraft systems. Our generators and pumps are very different from American ones and they are not interchangeable. We won't have this MS-21...
                      3. -1
                        15 March 2024 14: 49
                        Quote: Vitov
                        Our generators and pumps are very different from American ones and they are not interchangeable. We won't have this MS-21...

                        The American engine was developed according to our order and with our money, so it was also our engine and unification looked quite reasonable at that time. So now nothing prevents us from simply copying the units and systems of an American engine, and reverse engineering can help us, just like 3D printing.
                        So we will have the MS-21, and the PD-14 will not only be on the MS-21, but also on a number of other aircraft. I wouldn’t mind seeing them on the new modification of the Il-76MD-PD14T and on a middle-class transport aircraft with a payload of 20 - 25 tons.
                  2. +2
                    12 March 2024 11: 30
                    We have cowardly and lying promises everywhere... No one wants or knows how to make decisions and be responsible for them.

                    ...the ancient historical reality of Russia...
                  3. 0
                    12 March 2024 22: 58
                    Quote: Vitov
                    This is a Canadian-American joystick control system. It cannot be copied and the planes must be redesigned and our control systems with control wheels installed.

                    Let them Google the FFBeast project. Joystick with feedback. Manufacturing instructions are posted on the website.
                2. -5
                  12 March 2024 09: 54
                  The article has nothing to say, apparently it’s aimed at simpletons like you, Vasily. First Roman is familiar with the situation at the level of any user here. Screaming about something that reveals unpleasant topics is something any of us can do. His articles are a rake through water. For the most part, I agree with Sergei And so for the PD -14, the engine is mass-produced, in 2023 approximately 60 units have been manufactured. An acquaintance works at a factory. His testing will continue, which is normal. PD-8 preliminary flight on the new SSJ-100. Not mass produced. Tests. PD-35 design. For those who think why is it taking so long? We play a catching-up role in the production of aircraft engines. Domestic components are not ready to replace imported ones. The plane on the current MS-21 has become 6 tons heavier. How bad. They gave us 2 years to decide. At that time, they will continue to assemble aircraft, with what they have for now. I would like to note that global cooperation in the aircraft industry is the norm. Boeing is now having a scandal with quality and safety. The former employee who handed over the Boeing was killed. They took revenge. SSJ has invested so much money that now it’s time to finish it off. MS-21 has the same problem with auxiliary units. They are trying to modernize the Tu-214 in the same way. ROSTEC will not produce 600 aircraft by 2030, maximum 200, given the current situation. I can’t speak about controlling the steering wheel or joystick. I think they will finish the planes, it’s a matter of time and production volume. But time is against our aviation. From 2026, civil aviation will begin to lose aircraft. By 2030, all Boeings and airbuses will land in RUSSIA.
                  1. +6
                    12 March 2024 11: 04
                    You're right, a former Boeing quality engineer was found dead in a parking lot. The guy is already retired, 62 years old, he was not afraid before retirement, a principled honest engineer, to talk about Boeing’s tricks with counterfeit parts. The diagnosis was that he stabbed himself. Well, it's the Anglo-Saxons who took revenge.
                    1. -12
                      12 March 2024 11: 12
                      As for the fact that all Boeings and Airbuses will stop working by 2030, this is nonsense. Don't push it. The other day I flew to Sochi with Aeroflot on an A-321. The car is a 21 year old. Of course it will rise, but not in the 30th, but rather in the 40th year. With full service without boycotts and until 2045 - 2047 it’s easy. As for our 600 aircraft by 2030 - of course not anymore, they will make about 300:
                      MS-21 - 100
                      SJ-80
                      Tu-214 - 50
                      IL-114 - 30
                      Ladoga - 30
                      IL-96 - 10
                      Hardly any more.
                      1. +5
                        12 March 2024 13: 35
                        Where are the spare parts from? They will install counterfeit goods, will you fly?
                      2. +2
                        12 March 2024 14: 52
                        There are five options for spare parts:
                        1. Parallel import (difficult)
                        2. Cannibolization here (simple)
                        3. Cannibolization by import (medium complexity)
                        4. Copies of originals (quality comes first, certification is difficult)
                        5. I think there are stocks on some items.
                        A rolling stone gathers no moss. The one who walks will master the road. There is no limit to the greed of capitalism. Well, overall, there will be details. We swam in the 80-90s on KOK sheets, nothing, we got what we needed.
                      3. 0
                        12 March 2024 20: 55
                        Quote: Glagol1
                        We swam in the 80-90s on KOK sheets, nothing, we got what we needed.

                        I remember there was a plane crash and failures. I remember how counterfeits were found in garages and officials were arrested.
                      4. 0
                        12 March 2024 20: 53
                        I'm telling you what our airline pilots say. They told me 26-27 years, but I asked people knowledgeable in aviation, they said until 30, if we do not purchase more aircraft and spare parts for them, we will service them as needed. If the sides are not replaced, then 30 years. I myself fly airbus 320, 320neo every year. This is reality, not hype, and people who understand this understand the danger.
                      5. +2
                        12 March 2024 21: 17
                        As for the fact that all Boeings and Airbuses will stop working by 2030, this is nonsense. Don't push it. The other day I flew to Sochi with Aeroflot on an A-321. The car is a 21 year old. Of course it will rise, but not in the 30th, but rather in the 40th year.

                        A passenger aircraft is not exactly a car, and it doesn’t matter when it was released, it is more important to undergo all forms of maintenance and change spare parts according to flight hours, and the same A-321 released in 2011, but having undergone full maintenance without supplying spare parts, can fly more than the A-321 2021, which is approaching its maintenance deadline. And these terms on all flying aircraft will end long before 2030, after which it will be necessary to either lay down all aircraft or install counterfeit spare parts, which makes flights unsafe.
                        As for our 600 aircraft by 2030 - of course not anymore, they will make about 300:

                        This is if you believe in Santa Claus and other fairy tales. But in reality, if we focus on resuscitating the Soviet aviation industry and make significant efforts, then in a couple of years we can reach the production of 5-6 Tu-214 per year in Kazan, 2-3 Il-96 300 and Il-96 400M in Voronezh and we will get at best by 2030:
                        Tu-214 - 30 pieces
                        IL-96 - 15 pieces
                        With the hard work of competent people and a favorable situation, it is also possible to reach 5-6 MS-21s and about 10 Superjets by 2028 and add by 2030
                        MS-21 - 15-20 pieces
                        Superjet - about 30
                        And this is if the UAC and UEC are not managed by the Chemezovs and Manturovs and subject to complete import substitution.
                      6. 0
                        13 March 2024 13: 03
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        As for the fact that all Boeings and Airbuses will stop working by 2030, this is nonsense. Don't push it. The other day I flew to Sochi with Aeroflot on an A-321. The car is a 21 year old. Of course it will rise, but not in the 30th, but rather in the 40th year.

                        A passenger aircraft is not exactly a car, and it doesn’t matter when it was released, it is more important to undergo all forms of maintenance and change spare parts according to flight hours, and the same A-321 released in 2011, but having undergone full maintenance without supplying spare parts, can fly more than the A-321 2021, which is approaching its maintenance deadline. And these terms on all flying aircraft will end long before 2030, after which it will be necessary to either lay down all aircraft or install counterfeit spare parts, which makes flights unsafe.
                        As for our 600 aircraft by 2030 - of course not anymore, they will make about 300:

                        This is if you believe in Santa Claus and other fairy tales. But in reality, if we focus on resuscitating the Soviet aviation industry and make significant efforts, then in a couple of years we can reach the production of 5-6 Tu-214 per year in Kazan, 2-3 Il-96 300 and Il-96 400M in Voronezh and we will get at best by 2030:
                        Tu-214 - 30 pieces
                        IL-96 - 15 pieces
                        With the hard work of competent people and a favorable situation, it is also possible to reach 5-6 MS-21s and about 10 Superjets by 2028 and add by 2030
                        MS-21 - 15-20 pieces
                        Superjet - about 30
                        And this is if the UAC and UEC are not managed by the Chemezovs and Manturovs and subject to complete import substitution.

                        I agree with you here. You reflected a more or less real scenario.
                      7. 0
                        13 March 2024 13: 11
                        But about the Tu-214, I would say there will be 60 pieces, MS-21 30, SSJ about 30-40, IL -96 pieces 10, I think only up to 200 maximum, if there is a miracle.
                  2. 0
                    12 March 2024 20: 58
                    The article has nothing to say, apparently it’s aimed at simpletons like you, Vasily. First Roman is familiar with the situation at the level of any user here. Screaming about something that reveals unpleasant topics is something any of us can do. His articles are a rake through water.

                    An amazing statement from a “specialist”!
                    And so, according to PD -14, the engine is being mass-produced; in 2023, approximately 60 units have been manufactured.

                    General designer of UEC-Aviadvigatel JSC Alexander Inozemtsev reported to Putin that EIGHT PD-2023 engines were manufactured in 14, but in your reality, of course, all 60! You know better than the general designer, you are definitely a “specialist”!
                    You can not read further.
                    1. -3
                      12 March 2024 21: 03
                      And I didn’t say that I’m an expert; you’re apparently an expert, but in reality you’re a simpleton. I don't read the yellow press. And I communicate with those who work there. Read on. I don’t believe in the statements of leaders reporting to Putin, because you need to ask on the ground. And about Skomorokhov’s lies about PD-14, it’s obvious, especially since 2020 it began to be produced.
                      1. -1
                        12 March 2024 21: 58
                        I don’t believe in the statements of leaders reporting to Putin, because you need to ask on the ground.

                        Of course, they already shouted about the mythical 60 PD-14s and got caught in the deception. lol
                        Moreover, since 2020 it began to be produced.

                        First, you will learn the difference between mass production and the production of piece samples for testing. lol
                      2. 0
                        13 March 2024 12: 53
                        go to the factory and prove otherwise. First, study the question yourself, otherwise you are just a simpleton, a simpleton. Continue reading your Skomorokhov, he knows everything better...
                3. -2
                  12 March 2024 14: 41
                  Why such difficulties? laughing
                  "middle class" applauds, applauds... stopped applauding (c)
                4. -3
                  12 March 2024 16: 02
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  would work on real plans, such as restoring the airworthiness of the Tu-204 and Il-96 in storage and restoring production of the Tu-204/214 and Il-96-400M, relying on the experience and suppliers with the new Il-76.
                  And of course, in parallel, the MS-21 and Superjet must be launched into production within a reasonable time frame.

                  Your words, yes, GDP in the ears...
                  1. +1
                    13 March 2024 07: 34
                    Your words, yes, GDP in the ears...

                    The GDP is not able to cope with this, it was he who appointed his friend Chemezov to lead the aviation industry and the military-industrial complex, and the leadership of the special services, which should report to him on what is happening, he appointed the same. And if the GDP did not know that those whom he appointed to lead the aviation industry for bribes from Boeing were destroying this aviation industry, then he is not in his place. And if he knew and did nothing, then he is a criminal and should be judged.
                5. +3
                  13 March 2024 09: 48
                  In order to create an aircraft in 10 years and launch it into series, you need to have ready-made factories, ready-made workers and engineers

                  Everything is much simpler than everyone is trying to describe here.
                  If at the head of any such project you put a good designer who knows production (i.e., has real production experience), and not the son of the right person (who will select the team for himself), then 90% of everything described above in the article will simply never will be born. The manufacturer will first of all be concerned with personnel, both workers, engineers and design bureaus. And as a designer, he will see all the processes in development and their certification.
                  Although, to be honest, today I do not believe that such a person will be allowed to manage such cash flows, because it is he who will determine the investments of the country’s huge budget funds. But strangers don’t go there.
              2. 0
                12 March 2024 11: 42
                Quote: Dutchman Michel
                This is when in Eastern Europe there were more than a million soldiers in military uniform, and even those with war experience behind them?
                as they say now, “They don’t pump gas to their enemies! At stake are those who supply gas to the EU for money!!”
                Now explain to me how combined one and a half million dug with Komsomol shock construction projects like "Urengoy Pomary Uzhgorod" - all kinds of gas and oil pipelines?
                How do 20 sanctions from the USSR times fit together with 19 sanctions now?
                Moreover, sanctions then were much less problematic for their own economy - than now.
                Why could the USSR indirectly fight with the USA itself in Vietnam and at the same time trade with them? And now we are not at war with the USA, but trade has been practically cut off.
                According to all the canons, it should have been the other way around - they should have spread rot on the socialist USSR.
                1. +9
                  12 March 2024 11: 54
                  How do 20 sanctions from the USSR times fit together with 19 sanctions now?

                  Elementarily combined. A sanction is just a lever of pressure. The fewer such possible levers, the fewer sanctions can be imposed. And vice versa.
                2. 0
                  12 March 2024 16: 12
                  Quote: your1970
                  According to all the canons, it should have been the other way around - they should have spread rot on the socialist USSR.

                  It's simple - they did not see the prospect of destroying the USSR and did not want to throw money away.
                  And now they are CONFIDENT that they will break Russia. That’s why every shantrap is so actively involved - they’ve all been promised a piece of the pie and they’re afraid of missing out on the opportunity.
                  That’s why even Finland and Sweden went to great lengths.
                  The Poles, in general, already consider Kaliningrad theirs...
            2. +6
              12 March 2024 08: 48
              The USSR was feared and respected. And the Russian Federation indicated that our place is not even sixteenth in the world of capital. Sit down and don’t rock the boat, here’s Ukraine, fight there.
              1. -7
                12 March 2024 12: 09
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                The USSR was feared and respected.
                therefore from respect for the sold him jet engines for Military aircraft. So that we can STILL be more afraid of the USSR later??
                "We afraid you, USSR - so let’s build gas and oil pipelines to us in NATO!!”

                Don't you find this motivation funny?
                1. +4
                  12 March 2024 12: 53
                  Quote: your1970
                  therefore, out of respect, they sold him jet engines for military aircraft.

                  You have already hesitated with these engines. I don’t know anything specifically about them, but I know that the Fiat was sold, because... in Italy the communists had a fairly strong position, as in France.
                  1. -6
                    12 March 2024 13: 33
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    You have already hesitated with these engines. I don't know anything specifically about them

                    Well, read it - first in Fulton, Churchill proclaimed a Crusade against the USSR, and then they sold several of the latest jet engines with all the documentation.
                    1. +6
                      12 March 2024 13: 49
                      Did Churchill himself sell it? Here, Putin also called for withdrawing money from the West, did you listen to him much?
                    2. +1
                      12 March 2024 13: 54
                      Well, read it - first in Fulton, Churchill proclaimed a Crusade against the USSR

                      Here is a link to the text of the speech that Churchill gave at Fulton College.
                      https://historyrussia.org/tsekh-istorikov/archives/fultonskaya-rech-uinstona-cherchillya-1946-goda.html

                      Can you tell us more about the “crusade” based on the text from this link? lol
                      and then sold several of the latest jet engines with all the documentation.

                      What "all" documentation? Are you trying to create the appearance that the manufacturing technology was transferred?
                      1. +3
                        12 March 2024 16: 49
                        the latest jet engines
                        Adler E.G. Earth and Sky. Notes from an aircraft designer:
                        An aviation mission headed by Mikoyan visited the UK and purchased a license for the right to build and a batch of Rolls-Royce Derwent turbojet engines with a thrust of 1600 kgf and Nin - 2250 kgf. Both engines were of a somewhat outdated design, with centrifugal compressors, but carefully developed and, as the British later wrote about this deal, completely exhausted opportunities for further improvement.
                        Yakovlev and Lavochkin began building their fighters with lighter Derwent engines, and Mikoyan, true to himself, took the Nin.
                      2. 0
                        12 March 2024 17: 16
                        and purchased a license for the right to build

                        Could there be any confusion here? If you bought a license, then where could the claims against the USSR come from for unlicensed copying?
                      3. 0
                        12 March 2024 17: 29
                        Claims
                        They probably gave you an analogue of a licensed documentation set.
                        British: However, in 1946, before the Cold War really began, the new British Labor government under Prime Minister Clement Attlee, seeking to improve diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union, allowed Rolls-Royce to export 40, etc... Rolls-Royce later attempted to claim £207 million in license fees, but unsuccessfully...
                        The company tried, but the government gave the other hand.

                        In general, it looks like a spy dumping mine.
                        The development of our own has slowed down.
                        Adler E.G. Earth and Sky. Notes from an aircraft designer:
                        After working for a couple more years at the Yakovlev Design Bureau as the leading designer of the next Yak-50 fighter, on which test pilot Sergei Anokhin broke the sound barrier for the first time, I took two years off from work to study. After graduating, in 1952 he was sent to the newly created Design Bureau of the unknown designer Vladimir Kondratyev as the head of the preliminary design team.
                        This design bureau was formed to recreate and reconstruct the captured American F-86 Saber fighter and further develop this area in domestic aviation. At that time, this aircraft was widely advertised in the English-language press as a “MiG killer.”
                        Having started work, the newly created Kondratiev Design Bureau faced a number of difficulties, the main one of which was the need to replace the American jet engine with a domestic one.
                        By the time I arrived, it had already been decided to replace the American General Electric turbojet engine, which had completely fallen into disrepair, with the VK-1 engine, a Soviet version of an outdated English engine with a centrifugal compressor. This decision was unsuccessful, since the VK-1 was distinguished by its large dimensions, which ate up the entire fuselage space intended to accommodate fuel tanks.
                        We proposed installing a new Soviet AM-5 engine on the Saber, created, just like the American one, with a progressive axial compressor. It was much lighter and smaller than the American one. Having the same thrust as the General Electric, the AM-5 provided a gain in weight and space, which made it possible to significantly increase the capacity of the fuel tanks, and therefore the aircraft’s flight range.
                        This proposal passed, and further work was carried out in this direction.

                        Historians:
                        Even before the start of the Great Patriotic War, Arkhip Lyulka created the first technical design of the RD-1 aviation turbojet engine in the USSR. The war made its own adjustments: work on the RD-1 was suspended with the outbreak of hostilities. Arkhip Lyulka, who was working at the Kirov plant in Leningrad at that time, like many other employees of the enterprise, was forced to switch to tank repair. At the end of 1941, the plant was evacuated to Chelyabinsk. Arkhip Lyulka managed to take some of the drawings for the RD-1 with him, but most of the documentation and the backlog of details for the RD-1 samples was hidden, or rather buried right on the territory of the Kirov plant.
                        In 1942, German Messerschmitt-262 jet fighters appeared at the front, flying at a speed of 860 km/h.
                        Then they remembered the young engineer Arkhip Lyulka, who began working on the air-breathing engine five years before the war. On Stalin’s personal instructions, he was taken to besieged Leningrad to find drawings of an experimental engine. The precious treasure of Arkhip Lyulka was excavated on the territory of the Kirov plant and evacuated along Lake Ladoga to resume work on the first Soviet turbojet engine.
                        Already in the fall of 1942, the design of a jet aircraft by aircraft designer Mikhail Gudkov with an Arkhip Lyulka RD-1 engine was presented to the Party Central Committee. However, domestic specialists were not ready to accept the car. The project of this aircraft was not implemented, but the start of work in the field of turbojet engine building in the country was officially given.
                        In 1946, OKB-165 was formed, whose tasks were the development and creation of domestic turbojet engines. Arkhip Mikhailovich Lyulka, who was 38 years old at that time, was appointed head of the new design bureau, which later became UEC-Saturn.
                      4. 0
                        12 March 2024 17: 41
                        They probably gave you an analogue of a licensed documentation set.
                        British: However, in 1946, before the Cold War had really begun, the new British Labor government under Prime Minister Clement Attlee, seeking to improve diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union, allowed Rolls-Royce to export 40 etc. Rolls-Royce later attempted to claim £207 million in license fees, but was unsuccessful.

                        What is an “analogue of a licensed documentation set”? )))
                        Klimov RD-500 - unlicensed copy of Derwent V
                        The Klimov RD-500 was an unauthorized Soviet copy of the British Rolls-Royce Derwent Mk.V turbojet, several examples of which were sold in 1947 to Russia. Produced without any licensing agreement between the two countries, the Klimov Design Bureau adapted it to Soviet production methods and materials. The RD-500 was a very similar copy of the Derwent, with a single centrifugal compressor stage, nine combustion chambers and a single turbine. It had a thrust identical to the British engine (15,9 kN) and weighed only 13,7 kg more.

                        Klimov RD-45 and VK-1 - unlicensed copy of Nin
                        A total of twenty-five Nenes were sold to the Soviet Union as a gesture of goodwill - with the caveat of non-military use - with the consent of Stafford Cripps. In September 1946, Rolls-Royce received permission to sell 10 Nene engines to the USSR, and in March 1947, another 15. The price was fixed as part of a commercial contract. A total of 1947 jet engines were sold to the Soviet Union in 55. Seventeen Soviet engineers were trained at the Rolls-Royce plant in Derby in 1947 to maintain and repair the engine. The Soviets broke their promise not to use it for military purposes and redesigned the Nene to develop the Klimov RD-45 and a larger version of the Klimov VK-1
                      5. 0
                        12 March 2024 18: 04
                        with a non-military use clause
                        That's it, I wonder how they could imagine its peaceful use wink
                      6. Alf
                        0
                        12 March 2024 19: 06
                        Quote: Andriuha077
                        with a non-military use clause
                        That's it, I wonder how they could imagine its peaceful use wink

                        For example, on a passenger jet plane... The Britons built the Comet in 49, and in 52 it began flying. “If we have already created Comet, then the Russians may well create something similar.” Not ?
                      7. Alf
                        0
                        12 March 2024 19: 02
                        In 1942, German Messerschmitt-262 jet fighters appeared at the front, flying at a speed of 860 km/h.

                        When when ???
                        An acute shortage of personnel and materials delayed the start of mass production until the end of March 1944.

                        Well, THAT'S not necessary...
                      8. 0
                        12 March 2024 19: 30
                        When when ???
                        But this is not for me, as in the memoirs of the aircraft designer, he was informed about the testing of the machine at the front. This means that it is not a combat unit, but a testing unit.

                        The project of the first jet aircraft was designated “Me-262”. The Me-262(V3) prototype, powered only by jet engines, first flew on July 18, 1942. The Luftwaffe combat unit, equipped with the Me-262, began its combat service on October 3, 1944.
                      9. Alf
                        0
                        12 March 2024 19: 34
                        Quote: Andriuha077
                        so in the memoirs of an aircraft designer,

                        Can you provide a quote?
                        Quote: Andriuha077
                        The Me-262(V3) prototype, powered only by jet engines, first flew on July 18, 1942. The Luftwaffe combat unit, equipped with the Me-262, began its combat service on October 3, 1944.

                        In 1942, German Messerschmitt-262 jet fighters appeared at the front, flying at a speed of 860 km/h.

                        Well, you decide...
                      10. 0
                        12 March 2024 20: 06
                        smile The first flight engines BMW 003 arrived in Augsburg from Berlin-Schönefeld in mid-November 1941. Their nominal thrust reached 460 kg. The engines were coded as a special propulsion system. They decided to put them on the Me.262-V1, but keep the piston Jumo-210G just in case. After static tests, the prototype aircraft was ready for its first flight on March 25, 1942. The pilot, again Wendel, despite the operation of all three engines, had difficulty lifting off the aircraft at the end of the runway, very slowly gained a height of 50 m, but when he began to remove the landing gear from the left Flames erupted from the BMW 003, and a few seconds later from the right engine. With the additional air resistance and weight of two turbojet engines, the power of one Jumo-210G was clearly not enough, but Wendel was able to turn around and make a successful landing.

                        The engines were immediately removed by maintenance personnel from BMW. After examining them, they discovered that the compressor blades were broken. The embarrassed engine workers returned to the plant and quite a long time passed before Messerschmitt heard about them again.

                        Fortunately, Junkers managed to improve his Jumo 004. Work began on adapting the third experimental Me.262-V3 (PC+UC) to the new engine. The pre-production Jumo-004A-0 delivered to Augsburg turned out to be larger and heavier than the BMW 003. This forced the engine nacelles and vertical tail to be larger. Flight testing was transferred to Leipheim, where a 1100 m runway could be used. It was hoped that with a thrust of two Jumo 004A engines of 840 kg and a weight of just over 5000 kg, the aircraft would be able to take off from the ground at a speed of 180 km/h. The runway at Leipheim was no larger than at Augsburg, but had a tar surface more suitable for testing.

                        Early in the morning of July 18, 1942, flight captain Wendel began his takeoff run, and after running 800 m he had already reached takeoff speed. The pilot found that at this speed the elevator was completely ineffective, and therefore it was impossible to lift the tail off the ground. There was no time to make a decision; there were only 300 m left, just enough to slow down the plane. It was obvious that the low tail of the aircraft was causing the elevator to be obscured. One of the test team members suggested that when Wendel reached takeoff speed, he quickly applied the brakes, which should have caused the plane to buck and raise its tail. Wendel decided to test this proposal, and at 8.40 am the Me.262 successfully took off for the first time using jet propulsion. Twelve minutes later Wendel landed and reported:
                        Immediately after touching the brakes, the tail of the plane came off and I felt the elevator. The turbojet engines worked like clockwork, and the car's handling was extremely pleasant. In fact, I have rarely felt such enthusiasm during the first flight of any aircraft as I did on the Me 262.

                        At 12.05 that same day, Wendel took the plane on its second flight, this time to test its maneuverability. The flight lasted 13 minutes and showed that during turns the flow stalled, first in the center section. To solve this problem, the thickness of the wing profile was increased, and the chord of the root part of the console was lengthened and the sweep angle along the leading edge was changed. In addition, slats were installed on the center section. After these modifications, Wendel resumed flights. Although at a speed of 700 km/h there were vibrations of the tail and some instability on the course, in general the characteristics of the aircraft were quite satisfactory.

                        On April 20, 1945, Eduard Schallmoser, piloting the Me.262, was shot down in a dogfight and had difficulty bailing out. He landed in the garden in front of his parents' house, in front of his amazed mother.
                      11. Alf
                        0
                        12 March 2024 20: 10
                        The question is, when did the 262nd appear at the FRONT, and not in the form of prototypes in Augsburg? And then you constantly get confused...
                      12. 0
                        12 March 2024 20: 14
                        Things are a thing of the past, and their cards were also confused by the demands to retrain from hawks to bomb throwers.

                        I read here for my own pleasure, leafing through the pictures.
                        http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20564-3.htm
                        Me 262V3 before the flight in which it crashed. Leipheim, 11 August 1942
                        The Me 262 V1 was photographed in the version with a Jumo 210G piston engine and two BMW 003 (P.3302) turbojet engines; the prototype performed its first jet-powered flight on March 25, 1942.
                    3. +2
                      12 March 2024 17: 10
                      Quote: your1970
                      then they sold several of the latest jet engines with all the documentation.

                      A license was sold to produce two types of engines. One of them was on the MiG-15, 17, Il-28 and somewhere else.
                      They sold it for a simple reason - they ran out of money, they really needed the money. In Britain in those years there were cards for food, fuel, etc.
                      The second reason was that it was believed that the USSR would not master the technology for producing turbine blades.
                      Third, in those years the engine industry was developing rapidly and very quickly these engines became very not super-duper.
                      1. -2
                        12 March 2024 18: 20
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        They sold it for a simple reason - they ran out of money, they really needed the money.

                        And unit sales saved them?
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        Britain in those years had food cards,
                        products on cards were at PRE-WAR penny prices. Therefore, the population is extremely negatively regarding their cancellation.

                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        very quickly these engines became very not super-duper.
                        that is, the USSR bet on
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        MiG-15, 17, Il-28 and somewhere else.
                        very not super engines?
                      2. 0
                        12 March 2024 21: 54
                        Quote: your1970
                        howl1970
                        (Sergei)
                        0

                        Today, 18: 20
                        New
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        They sold it for a simple reason - they ran out of money, they really needed the money.

                        And unit sales saved them?

                        They sold everything they bought.
                        By the way, when Stalin was informed that it was possible to buy a license for jet engines, more powerful than those on serial British aircraft, he did not believe it, but allocated the money.
                        Quote: your1970
                        that is, the USSR bet on
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        MiG-15, 17, Il-28 and somewhere else.
                        very not super engines?

                        Yes. Not very great. On English engines the compressor was centrifugal (MiG-15), on American Saber engines the compressor was axial. The axial one, with the same thrust, had a smaller midsection, as a result, better aerodynamics of the aircraft. This backfired in Korea.
                      3. +1
                        12 March 2024 23: 25
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        A license was sold to produce two types of engines.

                        There was no license. And the technological documentation was not transferred.

                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        They sold it for a simple reason - they ran out of money, they really needed the money.

                        The British themselves claim that they feared a disruption in the supply of wood, which the USSR was then sending to Britain in large quantities. Well, the government was Labor (Clement Attlee).
                      4. 0
                        13 March 2024 10: 39
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Quote: Captain Pushkin
                        They sold it for a simple reason - they ran out of money, they really needed the money.

                        The British themselves claim that they feared a disruption in the supply of wood, which the USSR was then sending to Britain in large quantities. Well, the government was Labor (Clement Attlee).

                        Despite the outbreak of the Cold War, Great Britain decided to sell a batch of Nin and Derwent engines to the Soviet Union. What exactly prompted the British to agree to this deal, the results of which later turned against the United States, their partners in the North Atlantic Alliance, is still not known for certain. The situation has long been overgrown with legends. Most likely, the Rolls-Royce company already realized the futility of the scheme with a centrifugal compressor, considered it exhausted and turned all its attention to the development of a turbojet engine with an axial compressor.
                  2. -1
                    12 March 2024 18: 35
                    As far as I remember, these engines were from the British even before Fulton and the blockade of West Berlin. And according to memoirs, our engineers were spinning around the machines at the English plant to remove metal filings on shoes for further analysis of the alloys.
                  3. -2
                    12 March 2024 19: 22
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    You have already hesitated with these engines. I don’t know anything specifically about them, but I know that the Fiat was sold, because... in Italy the communists had quite strong positions,

                    It was, it was... 60 pieces of Rolls-Royce engines were shaved (with several models in stock), plus a license for their production - they were sold to our delegation in 1946. And in 1947 they were already delivered to the USSR (by the way, very quickly!)
            3. +3
              12 March 2024 09: 30

              Therefore, Christy/ breeding horses for stud farms/ Derwents/ serial Toshiba with a series of 1 piece lol / gas pipelines and other other...
              As soon as capitalism came to us, we became the worst enemy of the West. They encroached on the sacred - on the loot....
              At one time, the Zhiguli was sold without any strain - the unfortunate Opel with a luxurious offer was simply not sold. And this is one of the high-profile ones - there were many attempts to buy technologies / factories, only a single one was sold

              It didn't cost that much back then. By modern standards, these engines were almost done in just a couple of years. Now you can’t do it even in 10, even if you seem to have everything.
              1. -3
                12 March 2024 12: 34
                Quote: Dimax-Nemo
                It didn't cost that much back then. By modern standards, these engines were almost done in just a couple of years.

                How much will an engine that increases the speed of an airplane cost now? twice? Even if collected on the knee?
                1. 0
                  13 March 2024 07: 46
                  Assembled on your knee now, it will not provide you with a speed from 2500-3000 km/h to 5000-6000. It won't work anymore. Not the scale of the task. And even then, English engines provided an increase in comparison with piston engines not by two times, but at best by one and a half times. From 600-650 km/h to 900-1000 at best. Not to mention the fact that we had German turbojet engines.
                  So in any case, tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars will be spent on R&D alone.
            4. +5
              12 March 2024 10: 41
              The sworn enemies sold military technologies to the USSR, they don’t sell this to the Russian Federation. Whom the West considered the big enemy in such situations. - boring question..

              everything is simpler. The West did not consider the USSR either a real enemy or a competitor.... As soon as capitalism came to us, we became the worst enemy of the West.

              I noticed that you, with enviable tenacity, are trying to push a new “security installation” into any topic (along with comparing the number of sanctions on the USSR and Russia).
              And after Churchill announced the “Crusade” in Fulton

              Why these exaggerations? Post-war Churchill was a political dummy even during his second premiership. Not to mention the “opposition” period. He could “announce” anything in 1946, miles away from the British Cabinet of Ministers. The engines were sold to the socialist USSR by the socialists Attlee and Cripps.
              Sworn enemies sold military technology to the USSR

              No. We sold products and trained personnel to service these products. Technologies were not sold. Unlike Canada, Australia and the USA until the purchase of USSR products, and after that also France. By the way, in 1946 the possibility of their use in the civilian sphere was already considered.
              The Russian Federation does not sell this.

              What is it? The article (let me remind you) is about civil aviation.
              The Russian Federation has been flying Boeings for several decades. Who stopped you from copying it, as they did in the USSR with Nene? Can not? No need? We do not want? So what does the USSR have to do with it?
              the unfortunate Opel with a luxurious offer simply did not sell.

              Around the same time, GM did not sell it to both the Volkswagen concern and the Hyundai concern. There is no need to pass off correlations as cause-and-effect relationships.
              1. -5
                12 March 2024 12: 03
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Why these exaggerations? Post-war Churchill was a political dummy even during his second premiership. Not to mention the “opposition” period. He could “announce” anything in 1946, miles away from the British Cabinet of Ministers.

                Headlines in the Pravda newspaper - “Crusade against the USSR!!”, “Churchill’s Fulton speech!!” - are empty for own population?
                Like the mumbling later about the “Crusade” before the collapse?
                Or there were suckers sitting in Pravda who didn’t know what
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Post-war Churchill is a political dummy
                ?

                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                We sold products and trained personnel to service these products. Technologies were not sold.

                If they also sold engine manufacturing technology, discussions on the topic that “England was an enemy of the USSR” would look anecdotal.
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                The Russian Federation has been flying Boeings for several decades. Who stopped you from copying it, as they did in the USSR with Nene? Can not? No need? We do not want?
                together. Capital R&D that does not pay off is obviously not needed.
                The USSR could afford to spend a lot of money on this - no matter what.
                1. +2
                  12 March 2024 12: 14
                  Headlines in the newspaper "Pravda" - "Crusade against the USSR!!", "Churchill's Fulton Speech!!" - a dummy for its own population?

                  What a funny jump. No articles in any media have anything to do with a) the fact that the sale of engines did not depend on Churchill in any way b) that by that time he was a political dummy. Should you sketch out the current media headlines?
                  If they also sold engine manufacturing technology

                  Well, you wrote it, have you forgotten?
                  Quote: your1970
                  Sworn enemies sold military technology to the USSR

                  together. R&D capital that does not pay off is obviously not needed.
                  The USSR could afford to spend a lot of money on this - no matter what.

                  Then what does the USSR have to do with it?
                  The USSR was able to do something. Russia couldn’t do something, but in the USSR... A simplified diagram of all your messages lol
                  1. -4
                    12 March 2024 12: 24
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    No articles in any media have anything to do with a) the fact that the sale of engines did not depend on Churchill in any way b) that by that time he was a political dummy. Should you sketch out the current media headlines?

                    The newspaper "Pravda" was official and its articles were the position of the USSR leadership.

                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Then what does the USSR have to do with it?

                    Official(!!) enemy(!!) -USSR- they sold things that have never been sold and will never be sold"partner"Russian Federation (until 2014 it was not an enemy at all)
                    It is a chief the message of my first post.
                    1. 0
                      12 March 2024 12: 35
                      The newspaper "Pravda" was official and its articles were the position of the USSR leadership.

                      What does this have to do with points A and B?
                      Official(!!) enemy(!!) -USSR

                      I still don’t understand, are you still trying to pass off Churchill’s speech to students as “an official declaration of the USSR as an enemy”? wassat
                      This is the main message of my first post.

                      What does it have to do with the civil aircraft industry (the topic of the article), for which there seemed to be no prohibitions?
                      What about things that were sold freely in the Russian Federation, but the USSR had to come up with schemes?
                      1. -4
                        12 March 2024 14: 46
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        I still don’t understand, are you still trying to pass off Churchill’s speech to students as “an official declaration of the USSR as an enemy”?

                        This means teaching history in the USSR in 1970-80 stupidly went over the ears of schoolchildren - referring to Churchill's Fulton speech and the Crusade.
                        Even if he croaked in front of the frogs in the swamp, OFFICIOSE always presented it as the beginning of the Cold War.
                        Something like this
                        “On March 5, 1946, Winston Churchill rose to the podium at Westminster College in Fulton, America, and delivered his famous speech, which finally documented the division of the world into two hostile camps and marked the beginning of the Cold War
                        Stalin assessed this speech even more harshly in an interview with Pravda.
                        "..... There is no doubt that Mr. Churchill's attitude is an attitude towards war, a call for war with the USSR."
                        Do you think Stalin is an idiot? belay who draws such conclusions from words - in your opinion - "Churchill's political dummy" ?
                        Stalin never squandered himself on political corpses, and if he reacted, it means he considered this a particularly important issue
                      2. +3
                        12 March 2024 15: 04
                        This means that in the USSR, when teaching history in 1970-80, they stupidly went over the ears of schoolchildren - referring to Churchill’s Fulton speech and the Crusade.

                        This means that between 1946 and the 70-80s there is a gap of time with a lot of everything that happened, which leaves an imprint on the perception of the events of 1946. It’s just that the perception of a certain speech of the same year, but decades AFTER, has nothing to do with the sale of engines in 1946..
                        Stalin is even more...

                        Then I’ll add, since you don’t want to get off the rake
                        They, “ordinary people,” have their own views, their own policies, and they know how to stand up for themselves. It’s them, millions of these “ordinary people”, They voted out Mr. Churchill and his party in England, giving their votes to the Laborites. It was they, millions of these “ordinary people”, who isolated reactionaries in Europe, supporters of collaboration with fascism and gave preference to left-wing democratic parties.

                        How many times should I explain to you that Churchill could tell anything, the engines were not sold by him, but by those who did not see the enemy in the USSR in 1946
                      3. -4
                        12 March 2024 15: 37
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        it was not he who sold the engines, but those who did not see the enemy in the USSR in 1946

                        They were persuaded and sold by citizens who saw a friend in the USSR. That is, at that moment the Englishwoman did not spoil things, from your position?
                      4. +1
                        12 March 2024 15: 51
                        That is, at that very moment the Englishwoman did not shit - from your position?

                        The “Englishwoman” had much more pressing internal problems left behind by the previous government. Therefore, the “Englishwoman” decided, first of all, them. Actually, this was also in the balance in favor of selling engines to the Soviets. This is what the Americans were told - we need money. Moreover, no one saw a threat - 1) the Americans and British still have the most destructive weapons and, according to estimates, the USSR would not have appeared before 1954. 2) design documentation is not transferred
                    2. Alf
                      0
                      12 March 2024 19: 15
                      Quote: your1970
                      (until 2014 I didn’t care about the enemy at all)

                      Come on ?
                      They don’t sneak up on a “partner and friend”, pay attention to the dates of admission to NATO, it doesn’t even smell like ’14.
                      P.S. It was OUR government that believed that NATO was friends, but NATO did not think so...
                      1. -1
                        12 March 2024 20: 04
                        Quote: Alf
                        Quote: your1970
                        (until 2014 I didn’t care about the enemy at all)

                        Come on ?
                        They don’t sneak up on a “partner and friend”, pay attention to the dates of admission to NATO, it doesn’t even smell like ’14.
                        P.S. It was OUR government that believed that NATO was friends, but NATO did not think so...

                        Then let me remind you -
                        Quote: your1970
                        The official(!!) enemy(!!) -USSR- was sold things that had never been sold and would never be sold to the "partner" of the Russian Federation
                      2. Alf
                        0
                        12 March 2024 20: 08
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Alf
                        Quote: your1970
                        (until 2014 I didn’t care about the enemy at all)

                        Come on ?
                        They don’t sneak up on a “partner and friend”, pay attention to the dates of admission to NATO, it doesn’t even smell like ’14.
                        P.S. It was OUR government that believed that NATO was friends, but NATO did not think so...

                        Then let me remind you -
                        Quote: your1970
                        The official(!!) enemy(!!) -USSR- was sold things that had never been sold and would never be sold to the "partner" of the Russian Federation

                        Do you remember the scandal with the sale of a machine for processing propellers for submarines... When everything came to light, so many heads and shoulder straps flew in the West.
                      3. -2
                        12 March 2024 20: 47
                        Quote: Alf
                        Do you remember the scandal with the sale of a machine for processing screws for submarines?
                        in USSR....
                        And next to NOT Opel sold to Russia....
          2. +8
            12 March 2024 09: 02
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            Only a few pieces were purchased there,

            He has been writing about these engines for the tenth time in topics about the USSR. He is trying to convey that, they say, without them the USSR would not have had aviation!
            1. -6
              12 March 2024 11: 49
              Quote: Stas157
              Quote: Dutchman Michel
              Only a few pieces were purchased there,

              He has been writing about these engines for the tenth time in topics about the USSR. He is trying to convey that, they say, without them the USSR would not have had aviation!

              For the Chinese, woodpeckers and you - TO THE ENEMIES (I WILL SET IT OUT IN BOLD OTHERWISE THE CHINESE DON’T UNDERSTAND!!!) ultra-modern military jet engines at that time DO NOT SELL.
              The USSR would have had aviation all the same; the question of which path it would have taken without them is debatable..
              Quote: Stas157
              He is trying to convey that, they say, without them the USSR would not have had aviation!
              - don’t attribute your crazy speculations to me
              1. +1
                12 March 2024 12: 01
                ENEMIES

                For non-woodpeckers and non-Chinese, the USSR was not an enemy of Great Britain in 1946.
                1. -4
                  12 March 2024 12: 14
                  Quote: A vile skeptic
                  ENEMIES

                  For non-woodpeckers and non-Chinese, the USSR was not an enemy of Great Britain in 1946.

                  This is a new trend in external USSR policy in the post-war period -"England is not our enemy!!"
                  Apparently the Group of Forces was left in Europe for the sake of respectability.
                  Just don't write that only against the Americans
                  1. +1
                    12 March 2024 12: 18
                    This is a new trend in the foreign policy of the USSR in the post-war period

                    Originally, stretch 1946 throughout the entire post-war period wassat
                    And it’s also original to turn “The USSR was not an enemy of Great Britain” into “Great Britain was not an enemy of the USSR.” No difference at all wassat
                    1. -4
                      12 March 2024 12: 28
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Originally, stretch 1946 throughout the entire post-war period
                      And it’s also original to turn “The USSR was not an enemy of Great Britain” into “Great Britain was not an enemy of the USSR.” No difference at all

                      What's up with Operation Unthinkable?
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And it’s also original to turn “The USSR was not an enemy of Great Britain” into “Great Britain was not an enemy of the USSR.” No difference at all

                      Sinful - the question mark was lost there.
                      1. 0
                        12 March 2024 12: 40
                        What's up with Operation Unthinkable?

                        There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s in the archives.
                        Sinful - the question mark was lost there.

                        I realized that he was lost there. It doesn't change anything in my answer.
          3. 0
            12 March 2024 22: 29
            Quote: Dutchman Michel
            Probably business

            there is a version that tea lovers deliberately sold engines to the USSR and handed over the necessary documentation in order to somewhat spoil the lives of the Americans, whom the British Empire (yes, it was really still an empire at that time) perceived as a competitor.
          4. 0
            13 March 2024 01: 08
            Then there was the People’s Commissariat of the Aviation Industry, and now it’s a state corporation...how to get warm, feel the difference...
        2. 0
          12 March 2024 07: 08
          You need to focus on 1 aircraft, and not try to cover all the niches at once. Take a dry superjet or Tu-214 (since they are already in operation), and don’t twitch. Throwing all your efforts at one model will free up your strength and resources. Then maybe something will work out. Or maybe not.
          1. 0
            14 March 2024 14: 19
            Yes, AN-2 is better! It has been proven for decades that we wanted the best, but it turned out as always.
            No, guys, it's not like that!
            It's not right guys ...

        3. -1
          13 March 2024 08: 04
          Even last year, according to Ukrainian customs data, the Russian Federation’s trade turnover with Ukraine was $6 billion...
      2. +7
        12 March 2024 12: 26
        In the USSR there were designers, there were toolmakers, there were trained workers and there were managers with specialized education. What now? Effective managers-lawyers in management, workers who cannot read blueprints, heads of design departments who cannot distinguish a nut from a washer. Of course, this is a problem to import 30 units.
        (I have first-hand information about working in the design department and in production at a very large and well-known power engineering company; my relatives work)
        1. 0
          13 March 2024 00: 51
          Quote: Ilya22558
          Effective managers-lawyers in management, workers who cannot read blueprints, heads of design departments who cannot distinguish a nut from a washer.

          This just means that they are not engaged in production, they are using funds, and the direct performers are not paid. If a person is given a choice - learn to read blueprints, work normally and get paid 200k, or get fired after 3 months, then even a C student will run to read important textbooks at night, find his grandfather the engineer and hire him as a tutor. And if you either work from morning to night and get 40 thousand and a lot of sores, or you wash your pants at work, degrade and do nothing for 40 thousand, then nothing will happen in the end.
      3. 0
        12 March 2024 12: 37
        During these two five-year plans, thousands of foreign specialists worked in the USSR, hundreds of factories were created by foreign companies. Quite a few aircraft were improved licensed copies, aircraft engines - everything. There is no point in comparing the incomparable.
        1. +2
          12 March 2024 13: 10
          Quote from shikin
          During these two five-year plans, thousands of foreign specialists worked in the USSR, and hundreds of factories were created by foreign companies.

          Well, let them invite thousands of specialists, let them create hundreds of factories. None of this will happen, because for 30 years only their factories were bulldozed and specialists were dispersed.
          1. -3
            12 March 2024 13: 26
            let them invite thousands of specialists, let them create hundreds of factories
            - Do you think this is possible now? In the first two five-year plans, foreign companies supplied quite advanced equipment, shared technologies, sold samples of civil and military equipment, built and launched factories, companies from the USA and Germany were especially active. Machine tools and equipment came from Germany to the USSR until the very beginning of the war, as did reciprocal goods from the USSR.
            Nowadays, 10-15 years ago they stopped selling us anything serious.
            1. +5
              12 March 2024 13: 42
              Quote from shikin
              Nowadays, 10-15 years ago they stopped selling us anything serious.

              But twenty years ago, weren’t similar comrades in charge? Here, a few years ago, I posted a government decree on the development and production of an aircraft to replace the 2001 EMNIP maize aircraft.
              1. -6
                12 March 2024 13: 56
                I wonder where you will find similar comrades? There are several branches of government in the country, hundreds of thousands of people. This colossus does not always obey the supreme government, and sometimes even the laws. And almost all parties in modern Russia work in this system.
                During his first term, Putin proposed a lot of things, and almost everything was blocked by the Duma. Politics, including internal politics, is action within possible limits, not within desired limits.
                So tell me an organized, non-analogous force that can do something?
                1. +5
                  12 March 2024 14: 02
                  During his first term, Putin proposed a lot of things, and almost everything was blocked by the Duma.

                  1) Can you provide specific examples of blocking?
                  2) What about subsequent deadlines? Did the State Duma also block it? It seems like a complete approval.
                  1. -3
                    12 March 2024 14: 06
                    Do you think that if, for example, Slutsky or Kharitonov or Davankov are elected, something will change? These are people of the same system.
                2. +1
                  12 March 2024 14: 11
                  Quote from shikin
                  I wonder where you will find similar comrades?

                  Well, there’s nothing to write about what we used to invite and buy, but today we can’t. If now the top are satisfied with gray imports, then these imports will continue to suit them in the future, just like the Chinese Moskvich, the prices of which were suddenly sharply reduced due to the fact that no one needed this tin of three million and the gluttony of 15 liters in the city.
      4. +2
        12 March 2024 13: 39
        It is necessary to clarify at what period the USSR cannot “import-substitute” these 30 units. I.V. In 41, Stalin gave Simonov and Tokarev a month to create a working PTR. In a month they got it done
        1. +5
          12 March 2024 13: 57
          Quote: Black Colonel
          It is necessary to clarify at what period the USSR cannot “import-substitute” these 30 units.
          In the USSR, there was no need for import substitution in the aviation industry; they did everything themselves. Now we need to import even clothespins and nails to replace them.
        2. 0
          12 March 2024 15: 44
          Quote: Black Colonel
          I.V. In 41, Stalin gave Simonov and Tokarev a month to create a working PTR. In a month they got it done

          A little earlier, the industry produced 97% (out of 6 million)DEJECTIVE armor-piercing 45mm shells. Then they fought with these shells at the beginning of the war, it’s a very nice thing - when shells break into pieces on enemy tanks...
          And there was also a factory there that undertook to make an anti-aircraft gun, but did not do it for several years...
          Did they blame Stalin or give up?
          1. +2
            12 March 2024 16: 17
            Did they blame Stalin or give up?

            But the result of “laying and slaughtering” was the February-March 1942 execution of 46 people responsible for production, including People’s Commissar Sergeev.
            1. -2
              12 March 2024 17: 48
              Quote: A vile skeptic
              Did they blame Stalin or give up?

              But the result of “laying and slaughtering” was the February-March 1942 execution of 46 people responsible for production, including People’s Commissar Sergeev.

              Well, at least someone was shot... otherwise they convinced me that they weren’t shooting for chaos, theft and corruption - “They weren’t in the USSR!!”...
              1. +2
                12 March 2024 18: 00
                Well, at least someone was shot

                Well, why at least someone. I already showed you in one of the conversations earlier that the “decision-making bigwigs” went to the wall more often than those who carried out these decisions. Using the example of the percentage of generals shot and deserters shot.
                They were not in the USSR

                Everything is relative.
                This could not have happened, people are weak.
                1. -2
                  12 March 2024 18: 51
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Everything is relative.

                  You and I have a chronic misunderstanding - I’m always against it double standards и thoughtless praising something. When they criticize the present with a scream, “But this didn’t happen in the USSR!!”, although exactly like that It could very well be - it infuriates me. And since it infuriates others ALL current - I turn out to be an “anti-Soviet” belay lol
                  The label is sacred...
                  1. 0
                    13 March 2024 16: 07
                    although this could very well be the case

        3. Alf
          0
          12 March 2024 19: 19
          Quote: Black Colonel
          In a month they got it done

          So the NKVD officer stood behind them and clicked the shutter... This is a bloody regime, but “we are not like that”...
          1. +1
            13 March 2024 01: 00
            It seems to me that they are now clicking the shutter behind the backs of top patriotic bloggers who do not judge and quickly forget. Actually, the withdrawal from the Kharkov region showed how many opportunists we have, no one asked what happened at all, since it was impossible to explain this with any breakthroughs, there were fewer military personnel there than ours and they had practically no heavy equipment
      5. +3
        12 March 2024 15: 15
        The USSR had the State Bank and the NKVD. And the Russian Federation has the Central Bank (not subordinate to the government of the Russian Federation and strangling its economy on the orders of its owner - the IMF) and generals of the law enforcement agencies mired in corruption...
        1. Alf
          +1
          12 March 2024 19: 24
          Quote: NAF-NAF
          Central Bank (not subordinate to the government of the Russian Federation and strangling its economy by order of its owner - the IMF)

          I wonder who created such a system?
      6. +1
        12 March 2024 17: 57
        Well, to be fair, it is worth recognizing that aviation in the 30s and now are completely different. The main thing was to establish the production of a good and reliable aircraft engine. Which was still an internal combustion engine, just more adapted to working conditions on an airplane. The fuselage could generally consist of a wooden frame with a stretched canvas.
        Now the necessary system of the aircraft is its electronic filling. After all, there are many different systems on an airplane, and only digital automation will make it possible to manage an entire army of these systems. Not to mention the fact that some systems in a modern aircraft are simply necessary for it to be considered modern and to be purchased (for example, a set of on-board radar equipment for determining weather conditions along the course). And in fact, the lag of our aircraft construction (as well as engine building, mechanical engineering, machine tool building, rocket engineering, etc.) is due to the complete lack of our own production of MICROELECTRONICS as well as related products. Now microelectronics is one of the basic industries (as they would say before, group A production).
        In the USSR, they primarily developed the production of means of production (the same industry of group A). And so the USSR would not have been able to conquer space, win the Second World War and build housing for almost everyone if in the 20s and 30s it had missed at least ONE of the industries A. Just imagine, they built everything EXCEPT machine tool building! And that’s all, the country has serious problems both with increasing production and with the development of new production in ALL other industries.
        Also, now our country still has production from almost all branches of production, except for the one that was killed in its infancy in the 90s. This is just microelectronics!!! Yes, we had a lag in this regard during the Soviet years, since the United States began research in this area earlier + the country’s leadership did not understand the importance of microprocessors. Everyone understood that they had their own atomic weapons, since it was obvious. But they did not understand the importance of microelectronics and microprocessors. That’s why they didn’t put such emphasis on development. And despite this, we HAD the industry itself!!!
      7. 0
        13 March 2024 02: 29
        We’ve forgotten how to set goals correctly for people, we don’t know how to motivate except with money, and even then it turns out clumsily. Let’s shift this whole situation to, say, 1947-1950 and imagine that the party leadership, engineers and designers, together with the director of the plant, say that they have to wait a couple of more years, and you’ll see what we’ll build) on the same day this whole gang of speakers left to build railway in the Siberian taiga, and their Moscow apartments, along with their junk, would go to the state. People knew how to set goals... And deadlines...
        1. 0
          13 March 2024 23: 14
          Quote: V Rodichev
          engineers and designers, together with the director of the plant, say to the leadership of the party that they say, we have to wait another couple of years, look what we’ll build) on the same day this whole gang of speakers left to build a railway in the Siberian taiga,

          What happened to the anti-aircraft gun before the war? Or with 6 million armor-piercing 45mm shells - of which 97% were defective?
          No, of course Sergeev was spanked and the hut with the junk was confiscated, but the tankers on the T-26 and the anti-tank 45s apparently didn’t find it fun to fire shells - they were hitting German tin cans...
      8. 0
        17 March 2024 19: 31
        Do you propose to replace imports with two five-year plans?
        PS Most of the components you mentioned are both structurally and technologically many times more complex than the aircraft from the time the USSR aviation industry was created.
    3. +12
      12 March 2024 06: 54
      This is what happened. The destruction of design bureaus and pilot plants. Lobbying the interests of foreign airlines. Lack of money for R&D.
      1. 0
        13 March 2024 00: 04
        Yeah, but it doesn’t seem that way to some, judging by the fact that someone put “-” on my answer lol
    4. +3
      12 March 2024 09: 22
      Thank you, Roman ARCH-relevant.
      “The leaders of our industry are not experts in the field they supervise.”
      Alas, I remember my native software. When a failed engineer (as they would say today, a major) made a party career. And the deputy chief engineer bitterly told how at a regional committee meeting the instructor taught him this
      -And so in all areas...
      It seems that everyone (at the top) is happy with this. The grandchildren/great-grandchildren of the “Children of Arbat” seized power
  2. +20
    12 March 2024 04: 16
    Why bother so much about 2026? Shift it with a reserve, to 2036. Well, so as not to be branded as a windbag
    1. +7
      12 March 2024 04: 20
      You have all the makings of being an “effective manager”; I see that you are excellent at shifting deadlines to the right. The guarantor needs such people.
    2. +6
      12 March 2024 06: 40
      Quote from: FoBoss_VM
      Why bother so much about 2026? Shift it with a reserve, to 2036. Well, so as not to be branded as a windbag

      Late. They've already become notorious.
      So it’s more profitable to shift it by a year every year...
    3. +3
      12 March 2024 13: 42
      ...and then either the Shah will die, or the donkey will die.
    4. 0
      13 March 2024 01: 03
      I think they are now approving a plan for further shifts to the right; in a year they will postpone it to 2028, and in another year to 2030.
  3. +5
    12 March 2024 04: 23
    The only positive thing in this article is a photo of my native workshop (it became my family in 95) and the general director wink
  4. +23
    12 March 2024 04: 32
    The author of the article took a swing at the officials!
    First we need to deal with ineffective managers and managers and review the results of privatization. Nationalize ineffective enterprises.
    There is an urgent need to change the school curriculum, increase the number of physics and math subjects and hours, and cancel the Unified State Examination. It is necessary to create a new culture led by engineers and workers, because no one will plow for pennies. This is the most difficult thing because we don’t have an ideology; today’s youth will not go to the factory because other professions are in fashion. Somehow it is tedious to restore the production of microelectronics, which is also difficult. Then things will move forward from a dead point. But you understand that this will never happen! Smart, educated people will ask a lot of questions, no one needs this. The sons of journalists should run airline companies. If we have an economic forum named after Gaidar that buried aviation, this is monstrous! The author is naive. No changes for the better are expected.
    1. +22
      12 March 2024 05: 20
      Quote: BAT-MENT
      If we have an economic forum named after Gaidar, which buried aviation
      We also have the Institute of Economic Policy named after E. T. Gaidar. Well, it’s probably not even worth talking about the Alkash Center
    2. +15
      12 March 2024 05: 29
      Is the author naive? Where did you get this from?
      The author is trying to reach out to the public, to the leadership circles with his concern about the state of affairs in the aviation industry.
      And putting labels on him is called making fun of him.
      Instead of the cheerful and always optimistic “oil paintings” that the media present to the public not only for the next elections, but always, we are presented with the real state of affairs.
      The question is read between the lines: to what extent is this situation known “at the top”? Do they really assess the situation or do they just live by cheerful reports?
      Moreover, all these questions are not rhetorical. One cannot count on a quick reconciliation with the West. Moreover, no matter how we really had to clash with him.
      And the issue of aircraft manufacturing (which Burbulis began to kill in the early 90s) is becoming vitally important for the country.
      1. +15
        12 March 2024 05: 34
        Until people start asking for sabotage, nothing will change. In the old days it was called sabotage.
        1. +1
          12 March 2024 07: 27
          Now they are asking for the failure of the state defense order.
          But civil aviation does not fit this clause.
          1. +4
            12 March 2024 07: 30
            Transport logistics in Russia is an area more important than the State Defense Order, since the entire economy rests on it and the consequences can be extremely severe. Demand must come first here.
            1. +4
              12 March 2024 07: 31
              Agree. There must be demand. But where is he?
              1. +3
                12 March 2024 08: 31
                Quote: U-58
                There must be demand. But where is he?
                Every business has a first and last name © L. Beria wink
          2. Alf
            +2
            12 March 2024 19: 26
            Quote: U-58
            Now they are asking for the failure of the state defense order.

            And there are many village directors?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. +14
        12 March 2024 05: 53
        Quote: U-58
        The question is read between the lines: to what extent is this situation known “at the top”? Do they really assess the situation or do they just live by cheerful reports?

        Yes, everyone there knows...
        The “tops” don’t need their own aviation. And industry is not needed.
        Oil, gas, gas carriers, tankers, icebreakers to send caravans from northern fields.
      3. +5
        12 March 2024 09: 39
        The author shouted to the public, but what should the public do? Go to the polls? It’s funny, Comrade Lenin wrote about them more than a century ago and no one has yet refuted this. Pick up torches and pitchforks? Now it’s not just some 15th...-th-16th...th, and there is no consolidating force now that would attract to its side the “man with a rifle”, like the Bolsheviks once did. Since 40 thousand Guardsmen in one emirate of the Russian Federation were clearly not trained for their own, judging by the fact that their successes there are not seen or heard.
        1. 0
          13 March 2024 01: 18
          Quote from AdAstra
          Since 40 thousand Guardsmen in one emirate of the Russian Federation were clearly not trained for their own, judging by the fact that their successes there are not seen or heard.

          Well, don’t worry, in the first month of the Northern Military District, approximately equal numbers of military and Russian Guards entered Ukraine, they maintained order in the new territories.
      4. +1
        13 March 2024 01: 15
        Quote: U-58
        The question is read between the lines: to what extent is this situation known “at the top”? Do they really assess the situation or do they just live by cheerful reports?

        I’m sure they know even better than us, these rosy stories for the average person so that he doesn’t worry.
        Quote: U-58
        One cannot count on a quick reconciliation with the West.

        This is the whole calculation. If Aeroflot did not expect to maintain and buy new aircraft in the near future, then it would probably be concerned with airplanes, they don’t have an oil field to continue to provide them, they need airplanes. But Aeroflot doesn’t really need them, the state doesn’t care much either, 300 billion for 8 years is not enough to boost the aviation industry. We’re worried, we don’t know what other Istanbul-2.0/Minsk-3.0/Khasavyurt-2.0 is being prepared. You know that Navalny sat on the board of directors of Aeroflot in 2012? More precisely, I received a salary. Apparently they know something
    3. +3
      12 March 2024 08: 13
      Quote: BAT-MENT
      There is an urgent need to change the school curriculum,

      This is what needs to be done first. If we continue to have mechanical engineering, aircraft manufacturing, rocketry, etc.
      Quote: BAT-MENT
      cancel the Unified State Exam.

      The Unified State Exam is just an exam. The Unified State Examination can be cancelled, but what about the exam?
      It is necessary to change the school education system itself, throw out everything that is not very necessary from the program and, due to this, increase the hours of studying mathematics, physics, and chemistry.
      We need to throw away textbooks on these disciplines and return to Soviet textbooks. Until really good textbooks are prepared.
      1. +7
        12 March 2024 08: 33
        I agree on everything, return the Soviet system. The Unified State Exam must be changed to an exam because otherwise there is no point in studying. The program is now idiotic, everything and nothing. The most pressing question is how to restore prestige to engineers and workers. So that children would like to become engineers. Now the most fashionable specialty is YouTube blogger, create content and earn millions, no need to study, no need to work and master new knowledge. Why all this, if the content is good, big money will come! So now everywhere, not only in the Russian Federation
        1. +2
          12 March 2024 13: 03
          Quote: BAT-MENT
          The most pressing question is how to restore prestige to engineers and workers.

          Raise wages. In the meantime, a specialist who knows the concepts of developing marine drones works as a photo model, and the daughter of a designer of sonars for detecting these drones dreams of getting a job in a stable, cleaning up manure.
          1. 0
            17 March 2024 19: 36
            Salary and prestige are little related things.
            But prestige and social status are direct.
            And it is the social status of the worker and engineer that needs to be raised.
    4. -3
      12 March 2024 08: 32
      My friend, is it okay that you are encroaching on the current political system? For this you can, after all, be punished under the article “for fresh cold air.” Our people themselves wanted capitalism in the late 80s and early 90s. We got what we wanted! What's wrong again?
      1. +9
        12 March 2024 08: 51
        Who wanted capitalism there? I don't remember anything like that.
        1. +10
          12 March 2024 09: 05
          They didn’t ask us about the collapse of the USSR at all, it was all illegal! By what right did they take and dismember the country into pieces without asking anyone? We started reforms without the demand of the population? We didn’t give them our consent to do this...
          1. 0
            13 March 2024 01: 21
            Oh, this late Soviet generation, with whom you could do whatever you wanted without asking
    5. +5
      12 March 2024 09: 32
      The author is not naive. The “Opinions” section, so he clearly expressed his opinion that there would be no planes and wrote why.
    6. -2
      12 March 2024 10: 35
      Quote: BAT-MENT
      First we need to deal with ineffective managers and managers and review the results of privatization. Nationalize ineffective enterprises.


      This is already being done.
      https://argumenti.ru/society/2024/02/885768
      Before the start of the SVO - Bashneft. “Yukos” can also be considered from the same opera.
      In 2023, the Gubakha Chemical Plant, the country's largest producer of methanol and formaldehyde, returned. The Prosecutor General's Office explained that the plant is now controlled from the United States and this violates the economic sovereignty of Russia.
      And also JSC Volzhsky Orgsintez, which produces aniline necessary for the production of explosives.
      And "Northern Shipyard"
      The year 2024 began with the return of CHEMK.

      The threat, the possibility of revising privatization may be enough
      in the event of a systemic failure of a strategic industry.
      Now let the managers think and look for a way out.
  5. +23
    12 March 2024 05: 09
    Everything is written correctly, everything is as it is, except for one inaccuracy - the author writes that in 2030 we will have an “unforgettable show” in the form of excuses for UAC managers. This is naive and it won't happen.
    Firstly, who in the post-Soviet Russian Federation was generally responsible for anything and accounted for anything?
    For example, just two years ago we had a “terrible pandemic”, a “heroic fight” against which, in the form of self-isolation and cessation of treatment for other diseases, cost the country at least half a million victims.
    Has anyone answered for this and at least reported? Of course not, no one cares and everyone has already forgotten everything.
    Secondly, in 2030 we will have a different reality, and most likely a different government. It is unknown whether there will be a UAC at all, but if there is, then there will be completely different managers. So the last thing the current UAC managers are thinking about is the reports in 2030. By this time, they hope to be able to relax peacefully in a villa in Cyprus, and they certainly are not going to make excuses to anyone.
    1. +14
      12 March 2024 07: 39
      Quote: Belisarius
      the author writes that in 2030 we will see an “unforgettable show” in the form of justifications by UAC managers.

      Was there a show on the failed May Decrees in 2020? No. A year before this, they launched a new program, National Projects of Russia 2019-2024. And they quietly “forgot” about the old one.
      1. +8
        12 March 2024 10: 12
        The same thing happened with the failed GPV 12-20,
        In 2018, a new civil law program 18-25 was adopted....

        No one is responsible for anything, but the paper will endure everything, they wrote it, and then rewrote it seven more times......
    2. -9
      12 March 2024 10: 50
      Quote: Belisarius
      For example, just two years ago we had a “terrible pandemic”, a “heroic fight” against which, in the form of self-isolation and cessation of treatment for other diseases, cost the country at least half a million victims.


      This is the kind of nonsense that the sissy people like, of course.
      Or maybe Belisarius himself is a Tsipso?
      Or is it just liberoid? Judging by his messages about Navalny.
      1. +4
        12 March 2024 15: 44
        Quote from Emperor_Alive
        Or maybe Belisarius himself is a Tsipso?
        Or is it just liberoid? Judging by his messages about Navalny.

        Hey, what the hell is Tsipso, I’m from the Bilderberg Club and the World Government! And Tsipso and Navalny are on my parcels. An insidious plan: to undermine the democratic-patriotic power of Yeltsin-Putin, but they literally saved Russia from terrible communism and are brilliantly leading it from success to success. These guys clearly said - we will deliver 2 thousand, but no, a thousand, ugh - already 600 aircraft by 2030. And they won’t lie and deliver!!
        But I praise you for your vigilance and give you a patriotic tip; in the analytics section, another insidious author dared to swear at Ovsyannikov himself. But he is our strategic advantage, an outstanding statesman, he was the governor of Sevastopol itself. It’s impossible to find anyone more patriotic than him. Can you imagine how liberated Liberda was?
        You can't relax - enemies are everywhere!
        1. -4
          12 March 2024 18: 37
          Navalny is no more, and... with him.
          Who are you drowning for now, Liberoid?
          Or does the tsipsa tell you to vote against everyone?
  6. +9
    12 March 2024 05: 14
    there is not enough vocational education system, which has been practically destroyed, there is not enough of its own machine tool industry, which has also been practically destroyed, there is not enough spare parts
    But we have enough managers and marketers wink
  7. +5
    12 March 2024 05: 39
    It looks like these UAC leaders know that in 30 they will have to report to other management. None of the current ones will be there anymore.
  8. +9
    12 March 2024 06: 03
    Plus for the article, plus that you don’t drop the topic, well, apparently by 2030 we are starting to switch to more efficient transport - electric trains! These airplanes consume a lot of fuel and pollute the environment, let’s leave the technology to the decaying West.....
    1. 0
      12 March 2024 09: 49
      I feel that, against the backdrop of everything that is happening, we will soon get on horses again...
      1. 0
        12 March 2024 11: 03
        At this rate, there will be no trains, no vehicles. And you can’t really get horses anywhere now. Well, if Mongolia can help with horses)
    2. +2
      12 March 2024 10: 17
      It looks like by the 30th year there will be nowhere to fly on an airplane and nothing to pay for, and everything will fall apart by itself.....
      There will be three dozen still operating “member carriers” for important officials who are “closer to the moon-faced man,” and the rest will be on foot, it’s more useful...
  9. +10
    12 March 2024 06: 23
    The delivery dates for MS-21, Superjet New, Tu-214 and Il-114-300 aircraft with entirely Russian components will be shifted. Naturally, to the right. And the dates are now called not 2024, which is already in full swing, but 2026.

    Well, what else can you expect from liars? Deniska has been lying for 10 years in a row and everything is “like water off a duck’s back” to him, however, there is more than one such prankster...
    p.s. Most likely, if our country does not fall apart by 2026, they will stupidly buy Chinese handicrafts and stick “Mys21” and “Suberget” nameplates on them winked
  10. 0
    12 March 2024 06: 31
    People associated with aviation have known all this for a long time. And the author did not present anything new. Rostec continues to report numbers to the top and show beautiful pictures. What is the article actually about?
    1. 0
      12 March 2024 12: 16
      What is the article actually about?

      About the very thing that
      People associated with aviation have known all this for a long time.

      But for people not related to aviation.
  11. +7
    12 March 2024 06: 37
    After the military abandoned the Il-112, and therefore the development of the TV7-117 engine, the Il-114 program can be given up. Planes without engines do not fly.
    1. +6
      12 March 2024 07: 02
      Quote: Amateur
      This means that from fine-tuning the TV7-117 engine, then the Il-114 program can also be given a hard end
      Rostec tore its vest, proving that the engines will appear soon
      1. +6
        12 March 2024 07: 33
        tore his vest, proving

        they usually prove it with actions, but here they just threw noodles at TV viewers
      2. +4
        12 March 2024 09: 39
        Well, what, what, they definitely have enough vests until 2030....)))
    2. 0
      17 March 2024 19: 51
      The IL-114 has enough normal engines in the 2500 hp thrust class. The same one for which TV7 was created.
      Above the engine for the IL-114 there is no sword of Damocles Ros-forgot-what with the engraving “common sense does not shake, I want one and a half times more in the same size.” But the TV7-117ST-02, completed to the point of common sense, is already being assembled and raced on stands (with a power of only 2400 hp with an emergency mode of up to 2600 hp - compare this with 3100+ hp for a transport vehicle).
      ===
      So it’s too early to give up on the IL-114, at least because of the engines
      1. 0
        18 March 2024 06: 07
        Somewhere in the early 2000s, I had to fly from Termez to Tashkent on an Il-114 with a Pratt & Whitney theater. The plane took off for so long and tediously that there was a feeling that it would not take off at all. The engine power was clearly not enough. But these Pratts produced 2750 hp. I’m not an aviation expert, but in my opinion 2400 “horses” is clearly not enough for this aircraft.
        1. 0
          24 March 2024 18: 55
          You're just used to jet planes. With piston engines, you would generally have time to fall asleep while it accelerates and finally breaks away from the strip.
          But in fact, this aircraft even has an abundance of P&W power: when loaded like the An-24B, it can take off in the summer from one and a half times shorter runway (imagine! The 114th, at a temperature of +28 degrees, calmly flew from a runway of 1130 meters, then as already at +24 the tireless An24Bs ran up against the take-off weight limit on a runway longer than 1600 meters).
          That is, the Il-114 can fly from a much larger number of airfields than the An-24 or even the Dash-8 (and if you also remember about the military standard of the Warsaw Pact countries - the length of the runway is 1200 m for light equipment, 2500 for heavy equipment - and the number of currently inactive such airfields)....
  12. +1
    12 March 2024 06: 44
    Articles like this should have appeared 20 years ago....
    1. +6
      12 March 2024 07: 38
      20 years ago (and 10) both the Communist Party of the Russian Federation and Argumenty Nedeli CONSTANTLY raised this issue. But they were simply not noticed. Stupidly ignored. But... life put everything in its place. We realized it. Is it too late?
  13. +20
    12 March 2024 06: 45
    So Putin raised us from our knees or is this the same nonsense as about a thousand planes?

    It’s been at least ten years since I heard this phrase. And it is presented as the main achievement that there can be in principle.
    But what it is and how to understand it - one can guess no less than one can guess what demilitarization and denazification are. Thick fog and confusion of meanings.

    Nevertheless, Matvienko, promoting her presidential candidate, repeated this mantra about getting up from your knees. And she added that the candidate returned dignity to our citizens and the country. True, she did not specify when we lost it and when exactly we acquired it again. Which of the current candidate's terms?
    1. +9
      12 March 2024 08: 10
      Protectionism has already been forgotten
      (obviously not selfish) foreign aircraft, the pension reform has been forgotten, which, according to the authors, should rid the national economy of the labor shortage.
      We've run into problems with aircraft technology, and there's almost a collapse with personnel in industry. In difficult times, factories have an acute shortage of makeup artists, designers, animators, and psychoanalysts. Read - turners, milling operators, adjusters and CNC operators, controllers, engineers.
      Let's continue to extend this power (over us sinners).
      All to the polls!
  14. +8
    12 March 2024 06: 46
    And after March 15, this entire “team” will rule the country and the economy for at least six more years, and accordingly, the timing will shift to the right for at least the same period, and longer, even though the grass won’t grow.
    1. +4
      12 March 2024 09: 51
      Well, what do you want from such a formal procedure as re-elections?
  15. -7
    12 March 2024 07: 13
    It's not just about effective managers. The point is those who are in the hierarchy between managers and workers.
    - the plane is overweight by 5,5 tons. That's like 55-60 passengers with luggage. As a result, the declared range is not confirmed. This is not a mistake made by managers...
    - lack of own developments in microelectronics. Or maybe it goes to other “primary” needs in the Northern Military District;
    - problems with software. All “serious” units used to come from Honeywell, etc...
    - besides, much of Boeing’s software is written by Indians...
    They will solve problems, but you need time and concentration on the task.
    And now there are more priority tasks!
    1. 0
      12 March 2024 10: 47
      besides, much of Boeing’s software is written by Indians...


      In Russia there is nowhere to put the Indian rupees received for oil, so let the Indians use them to write the necessary software for Russia if they have no brains left...
  16. +14
    12 March 2024 07: 17
    Mr. Manturov is the highest paid minister of the Russian government with an annual income of several hundred million rubles. Why work with such a salary if you can only make presentations and make promises.
    1. +10
      12 March 2024 08: 32
      Quote: avia12005
      Why work with such a salary if you can only make presentations and make promises.
      What do you want from a sociologist?! It's not about salary, it's about qualifications
    2. +11
      12 March 2024 09: 42
      You slander an unselfish person! He's a hungry man! But his mother is a genius in commerce, like most ministers and deputies. The relatives are simply geniuses! So maybe they should go to the government?))))
  17. +4
    12 March 2024 07: 19
    It (equipment) must be tested in such a way that all shortcomings and defects can be identified

    I disagree a little, not with it (the equipment), but with it, the management.
  18. +2
    12 March 2024 07: 21
    And one more thing: Americans rarely saw the branch they are sitting on. I think that as soon as we get closer REALLY to create your own aircraft, sanctions on the supply of aircraft will be lifted. AND cheap airliners with software, with a developed technical and warehouse base will again come to us for “goodies”. This is where a management decision will need to be made!
  19. -15
    12 March 2024 07: 27
    We have never had a shortage of brilliant commanders capable of instantly solving the strategic problems of any war at the keyboard. I see that there are now enough general aircraft designers. The barking from the neighboring territory is especially amusing. This is whose experience we definitely need...
    To the point. Problems have been building up for years. And the author’s cheap hysterics about the mistakes of the country’s leadership at different stages of its history are worth nothing. A balabol will remain a balabol regardless of the problem raised. And it’s certainly not up to him to decide. Such people only get in the way and become hysterical like women.
    The tasks are clear and they are being solved in difficult conditions of opposition from the collective West in all directions. Those who do not like the pace and deadlines can try to change the situation for the better by participating in solving a specific problem. Do you lack competencies in this area? Take up one in which you can be useful. In addition to aircraft manufacturing, we have other places to put our hands and brains. And bedbugs can stink.
  20. +6
    12 March 2024 07: 38
    If there are no planes, we will not fly. If we don't fly, we won't fall.

    Seriously, it’s completely unclear what the complaints are. It is not profitable for business to build aircraft under these conditions, so it does not invest money.

    What is not profitable will not happen.
    1. 0
      13 March 2024 01: 42
      The state should deal with all sorts of unprofitable matters, such as paying pensions, repairing roads or creating an aviation industry. But the state doesn’t seem to care too much either
      1. 0
        13 March 2024 08: 04
        “The state should be involved in all sorts of unprofitable things, such as paying pensions, repairing roads or creating an aviation industry. But the state doesn’t seem to worry too much either.”

        Where does the state get money? Here we are again? Then I'd better walk. My pension has already been taken care of and I will do my best to ensure that the state does not receive a single ruble from me.
  21. +3
    12 March 2024 07: 42
    So it turns out that we don’t need aviation! They are doing their best to wean us off it, so that rich and slightly overweight Russians do not take money to all sorts of Turkey, Egypt, Goa Moa and other infidel settlements! On vacation, I get into the car and take my family around the beautiful cities of our wonderful country! It’s impossible to review everything, but you’re talking about crap Egypt. And why don't we get some bombs laughing laughing laughing
  22. +4
    12 March 2024 07: 50
    And these people, thanks to whom everything is falling apart, are climbing into power again....
    1. +1
      12 March 2024 09: 53
      Do you mean they climb? They don’t get into it, they hold it with all their might.
  23. +5
    12 March 2024 07: 54
    Quote: your1970
    As soon as capitalism came to us, we became the worst enemy of the West. They encroached on the sacred - on the loot....


    You pointed out very accurately: it was we who became competitors in a divided market
  24. +1
    12 March 2024 08: 28
    Figures were announced: representatives of Yakovlev reported that 21 imported systems and components needed to be replaced in the MS-36, Sukhoi gave a figure of 37 components for the Superjet.


    They can’t even count on their fingers: we don’t produce only 37 systems...
    and they are the same for both Yak and Sukhoi
  25. +7
    12 March 2024 08: 30
    Everyone already sees that in Russia only bureaucrats are thriving (growing both in numbers and in consumption of the money supply) and others like them, production has become private and works for the interests of the owner, enriching him, and here they dream of some kind of interests of the state, which, as is rightly said in the article in the queue somewhere at the end
  26. +3
    12 March 2024 08: 31
    article credit!

    Who orders this music anyway?

    И these are the people at one time at the MAKS exhibition not allowed to the great Genrikh Vasilyevich Novozhilov back in 2003negotiate with the president and just show him the difference between his ILs and the rest of the Boeings and Airbuses. There were no kickbacks for “Ily”, that's why we have what we have today.
  27. -1
    12 March 2024 08: 47
    About the same situation with PD-14

    This engine went into production two years ago.
    Correct me if I'm wrong...
    1. 0
      12 March 2024 11: 42
      Let's make an amendment: the series has been launched and testing continues.
  28. +4
    12 March 2024 09: 03
    We don't have enough professionals in our country.

    It’s just that with professionals in our country there is complete order and any country in the world would envy such a “talent smith”, but another thing is that in our country they fundamentally do not want to concern themselves with the issue of using and integrating these same personnel. Civil universities simply issue a diploma and then the person goes out onto the street. And specialized enterprises and departments, accepting future specialists for practice, simply put a mark in the report for the internship and happily forget about them.
  29. +1
    12 March 2024 09: 26
    Unfortunately, top managers of one day prevail. They understand that trouble is already around the corner (a change in the top management clan, or other reasons...) so they are trying to spend the remaining allotted time not on contributing to the work of the company, but on their loved one.... They need responsibility for management, they missed the deadlines , analysis and reimbursement of mega-salaries received, and then, the beginning of a career, now in other places, Magagadan, Mordovia ....
  30. +6
    12 March 2024 09: 27
    1. +1
      13 March 2024 19: 51
      The topic is the vertical of power in Russia. The main thing is to report, the rest is fine.....
  31. -3
    12 March 2024 09: 35
    Are the authors paid extra for the publication and its volume? Some kind of endless sheet about the fact that Rostec is lying about a bright tomorrow, which should be 5 times shorter in volume if you remove outright water and self-repetitions from it. Well, this is the foundation of Vladimir Vladimirovich’s entire system - beautiful slides and stories about a bright future that was once there.
  32. -1
    12 March 2024 09: 37
    In my opinion, it’s high time to “establish order” in the state and in the brains of leaders, to drive out without pity all the parquet riffraff who can only “broadcast and promise,” but it’s time to ANSWER.
  33. +4
    12 March 2024 09: 44
    IMHO, it’s more important to remember who lobbied Boeing and signed the papers to allocate money to the airline for their purchase? Instead of money for the development of aircraft manufacturing?
    According to articles in the media, this is Medvedev. Boys to Aeroflot, to Pobeda, already under sanctions, etc.
    And then everything becomes clearer.
    Everyone understands everything, it’s a feeding trough, and nothing can be done..
  34. +6
    12 March 2024 10: 01
    The obligatory condition is not to fulfill the promise and frame the president? Two in one bottle, as they say.


    The king is made by his retinue, and if the GDP is satisfied with the current counts, princes and barons in power who only promise, but are in no way responsible for their “shoals”, unfortunately there is no hope for positive changes in the country....
  35. +3
    12 March 2024 10: 24
    Quote: arhitroll
    you'd spend say 0,1 percent of revenue to ensure you're lagging behind your competitors

    Boeing produces from 500 to 1000 cars per year!
    How many cars do we produce?
    How do we compete with them?
    1. +1
      13 March 2024 01: 47
      Well, we could have competed with them in 1991 if we really wanted to
  36. +7
    12 March 2024 10: 28
    An extremely intelligent and honest article. Although the Author somewhat softens the blow to our consciousness. And, to be completely honest, the main reason should have been pointed out directly.
  37. -11
    12 March 2024 11: 21
    Another cry from Yaroslavna, this time from aviation. Maybe the author simply can’t write in a style other than “everything is bad, there are thieves around”? There is no need to scold the expectant mother for having a baby in her tummy for 9 months, well, it’s faster or not at all, or there are risks. It’s just that all the optimism that was reported to GDP needs to be filtered.
    1. +3
      12 March 2024 13: 13
      Quote: Glagol1
      There is no need to scold the expectant mother for having a baby in her tummy for 9 months, well, it’s faster or not at all, or there are risks.

      Somehow I haven’t seen such mothers who, instead of 9 months, kept the baby in their tummy for all 18 months.
      1. +1
        12 March 2024 19: 04
        Somehow I haven’t seen such mothers who, instead of 9 months, kept the baby in their tummy for all 18 months.

        Rostec and Minekov's "mothers" can eat like crazy for five to seven years, as if they have seven children there, but in reality it turns out to be one empty "fart"....
  38. +6
    12 March 2024 11: 25
    And Russia doesn’t need pieces of paper and loud statements on camera – Russia needs airplanes. I wonder if this will ever be understood where these worthless plans are written?

    Those who write these worthless plans are worthless nomenklatura themselves. They are worthless, like milk from a goat, and it is stupid to expect or demand anything from them. And those who put these planners there have completely different goals and objectives than worrying about the fate and interests of Russia.
    1. +1
      13 March 2024 01: 55
      Quote: Zoer
      They are worthless, like milk from a goat, and it is stupid to expect or demand anything from them.

      In fact, if the nomenklatura is pinned to the wall, then he will quickly find smart specialists, give them powers and then report on their results. But we were never asked for results; any undertaking can be screwed up; only losing the trust of a superior is dangerous for your career. You can destroy the army, screw up the operation, but nothing will happen. Or you can abandon your daughter as a prime minister and that’s it, enemy of the people, for a hundred years you will be to blame for all the mistakes of your followers
      1. 0
        13 March 2024 08: 48
        Quote from alexoff
        In fact, if the nomenklatura is pinned to the wall, then he will quickly find smart specialists, give them powers and then report on their results.

        This is also a misconception. Of course, there must be responsibility, and everyone in their place. BUT, the nomenklatura can only distribute financial flows; such people cannot be allowed into scientific and technical issues. Lysenkoism is the clearest example of this. There the nomenklatura, the most important one by the way, got involved in science; as a result, there was no genetics in the USSR in principle. When they came to their senses, it was already too late. And where the nomenklatura did not meddle in technology, but was entirely led by technical specialists, there was success. Korolev, Kurchatov, etc.
        Genrikh Novozhilov is 100% right, all our problems come from the fact that
        “Our industry leaders are not experts in the field they oversee.”
        But things are even worse for us. Not only are our industry leaders not specialists, but even the leaders of specific government agencies. enterprises have no problem with what their plant/research institute/design bureau does. And their deputies are the same. And the chief engineers, chief technologists, chief designers are laymen. But for that they are their own, loyal. This is the vertical.
        1. 0
          13 March 2024 12: 10
          Quote: Zoer
          BUT, the nomenclator can only distribute financial flows

          Usually nomenclature specialists understand people and can find a professional.
          Quote: Zoer
          And where the nomenklatura did not meddle in technology, but was entirely led by technical specialists, there was success. Korolev, Kurchatov, etc.

          So there it was the nomenklatura that controlled them. What is Beria, a nuclear physicist? The nomenklatura found smart scientists, gave them all the resources and helped them in every possible way. Or over there in Chernobyl they sent Shcherbina, who gathered smart specialists and ran around them, giving people and resources. There is bad nomenclature, and there is good. For some reason they only remember the bad ones. Our nomenklatura now consists of important people assigned to bread-earning positions, and not those who solve some national economic problems, that is, they simply do not have such a task.
          1. 0
            13 March 2024 12: 37
            Quote from alexoff
            So there it was the nomenklatura that controlled them. What is Beria, a nuclear physicist?

            So Beria did not get involved in scientific and technical issues, but was in charge of finance and politics. And even with all this, Kapitsa could not work with him, for which he also fell into disgrace.
            Quote from alexoff
            Or over there in Chernobyl they sent Shcherbina, who gathered smart specialists and ran around them, giving people and resources. There is bad nomenclature, and there is good. For some reason they only remember the bad ones.

            So that's it. Normal nomenclature ENSURES the normal work of specialists, and they do not meddle in their affairs. And idiots stick their noses in everywhere and try to turn the whole process on themselves, which ultimately leads to negative consequences.
  39. +7
    12 March 2024 11: 30
    This is the result of the policy of Comrade Putin and his oligarch friends.
    Stagnation and degradation of industry and science.
    1. +2
      13 March 2024 19: 44
      Who prevented him from lobbying the domestic aviation industry during more than 20 years of his reign? And now from the TV screen he says: “We should have purchased our own planes, not Western ones.” Like, between the lines, “I have nothing to do with it, it was all of you who ruined it.”
  40. +6
    12 March 2024 11: 32
    . The question is a test, and there are many difficult moments here.

    Yes, there are a lot of questions here. The Su-57 has been made a lot, refined, tested, finished off... They accepted it and put it into production. And then the first production model crashed... Curtain. Ovation...
  41. +1
    12 March 2024 12: 09
    That's right! If there are no professionals, then who will make new planes?
  42. +2
    12 March 2024 12: 12
    And the Americans, in response to the indignant cries of the British, modestly made a move and said that this was an exhibition copy, but this is a production one

    Actually, the Americans said it correctly. Efficient managers from the British Procurement Commission, in a hurry due to the shortage of aircraft in England, deduced the characteristics of the aircraft from the unarmed and unarmored XP-39 prototype.
    It is clear that when the weapons and armor were installed, the characteristics sank.
    during demonstration flights, the R-39 achieved 650-670 km/h and generally behaved like a bird. But the first production copies that Great Britain bought did not want to fly at such a speed, giving out 100 km/h less.

    The author slightly exaggerated. The British expected a speed of 634 km/h +/- 4%. (that is, not lower than 610 km/h)
    During acceptance tests, it turned out that production aircraft are capable of speeds of only 371 mph (597 km/h)

    13 km/h is not 100 after all.
    Taking into account the fact that the hastily made purchase decision did not take into account the real conditions of using fighters in the theater of operations, in particular, in terms of altitude, the RAF abandoned it almost immediately.
    But in the USSR, at the front with other conditions, the Airacobra became a legendary aircraft, a weapon of aces; three of the top 5 Soviet aces flew the Airacobra.
  43. 0
    12 March 2024 12: 13
    And yes! An airplane is a product of a highly developed and free society, but not a wild Bantustan!
  44. +6
    12 March 2024 13: 00
    Until strict optimization of “optimizers”, “effective managers” and “galley slaves” is carried out, there will be no sense.
  45. +5
    12 March 2024 15: 12
    I remember when they adopted the State Armed Forces 2012, everyone from Rogozin to commentators on VO foamed at the mouth and shouted that now we would invest in the army and its technologies would pull the civilian industry along with it. Well, microelectronics, aviation. Well, what did you pull out? Is there any confidence that it will last by the 30th? It is clear that the question is rhetorical. We can’t finish replacing the maize plant while taking aim at really large aircraft. But on the other hand, at least the authorities didn’t screw something up?
    I see so many dissatisfied comments, but I don’t understand why everyone is voting for the continuation of this mess...
  46. +4
    12 March 2024 15: 19
    And again... Blah blah blah and not a single name, who is to blame!? The articles are good, the analytics are up to par, but... About 15 years ago, Andrei Uglanov and his “Arguments of the Week” waged an irreconcilable fight against the killers of the Russian aviation industry, Manturov and Pogosyan. With facts, appeals from Magomed Tolboev and others who are not indifferent to the Government and the President. But it seems that only WE read these articles - ordinary people and caring people... What a pity!
    1. +2
      13 March 2024 03: 36
      And Manturov has not gone away.
  47. +4
    12 March 2024 17: 04
    ...although in the USSR they only made galoshes, there were several types of airliners...Tu, An, Il, Yak..
    1. 0
      13 March 2024 19: 35
      Heard. Putin had to blurt out something like that (about galoshes), and even on TV. Either on purpose, or getting old.
  48. +2
    12 March 2024 17: 11
    Until there is “personal responsibility” there will be no sense! fool They will remove one liar with a promotion, and put another liar in his place! hi Something tells me that we will soon be assembling Chinese aircraft under license instead of our own! A shame! fool negative
  49. +5
    12 March 2024 18: 15
    these people at one time at the MAKS exhibition did not allow the great Genrikh Vasilyevich Novozhilov to talk to the president back in 2003

    If there are extra people standing between the President and Genrikh Novozhilov and hindering progress, then it is the President himself who is to blame.
  50. -1
    12 March 2024 18: 42
    Quote: jonny64
    And again... Blah blah blah and not a single name, who is to blame!?

    Here it is!
    Here it is - ours, original, raw meat...
    And bring the guilty here! Score them!
    All? Punished? Let's go, it's done...

    Guys, we shouldn’t look for the switchmen, but the reasons
    Hundreds of switchmen can be imprisoned, hanged, shot - it won’t get better if the reasons are not eliminated
    And I’ll say right away - individual people are not the reason
    Neither at the level of the UAC leadership, nor at the level of the president
    Individual people can only be switchmen
    If there is no water in the water utility, you can change the faucet in your apartment 100 times and no water will appear.
    The reason is always deeper
    Another thing is that you still need to see her, but the switchmen - they are always in sight.
    Atu them!
  51. +1
    12 March 2024 18: 46
    Novozhilov, unlike many “effective” ones, saw the essence of the problems plaguing the Russian aviation industry

    Everyone sees. And the most important one sees. But they have their own understanding of what is “good” and what is “bad”. There will be elections now. And people, for once, have a real chance to express their attitude to this very long-term disgrace. Well, or not to express it and leave everything as it is...
    1. +2
      12 March 2024 19: 12
      What the hell chance???
      The choice between the current one and other "storytellers"....
      They are all cut from the same cloth and trained only to promise, but not to do anything......
  52. +3
    12 March 2024 19: 43
    We have effective managers in all areas. They don’t care what to manage - the main thing is that they “know how to manage”.
    If we don’t change the education strategy, no new/old developments are in danger. The result of the "saints of the 90s"...
  53. +5
    12 March 2024 19: 58
    Until recently, it was registered on several sites enlightened by our aircraft industry, if you can call it that! But the other day, having read about the next transfer of all our new products, I spat and left all the addresses! I'm tired of listening to empty promises (to put it simply, nonsense)! Blah blah blah and right, right, right. I would like to be mistaken that something tells me that soon we will be assembling Chinese aircraft under license, as happens in the automobile industry! To paraphrase a famous politician, I will say: “You have to be a genius to destroy the aviation industry that existed in the USSR!” fool negative
    1. +1
      12 March 2024 23: 25
      “You have to be a genius to destroy the aviation industry that existed in the USSR!”


      There is such a term as GENIUS MEDIOCALITY so this is exactly about it.....
  54. +1
    12 March 2024 21: 03
    in the MS-21, 36 imported systems and components need to be replaced, Sukhoi gave a figure of 37 components for the Superjet. And this is only for two aircraft that were initially declared as domestic!
    The super budget was never declared to be domestic. It seems they tried to make MS-21 like this, but it turned out to be only one imported unit less than that of the RRJ
  55. -4
    12 March 2024 21: 36
    Who said it would be easy. It’s good that real movement has already begun. In terms of timing, let them move it to the right, as long as the planes don’t crash later.
  56. +3
    12 March 2024 21: 52
    As long as the boss asks and doesn’t demand, there will be such crap.
  57. +1
    12 March 2024 23: 23
    We really have a nightmare in terms of availability of engineers, designers, technologists and workers.


    So what is stopping Chemezov from transferring 50% of the UAC management team to blue-collar jobs (turners, milling operators, welders, installers...)?
    They are of no use, at least they will earn their salaries honestly...
  58. +1
    13 March 2024 02: 28
    There will be no breakthrough in import substitution and in industry. Nothing will happen at all. Because no one in power needs this. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have hired characters for this job who, until 24.02.22/XNUMX/XNUMX, had been destroying everything for decades to please Western corporations. Their place is on the bunks, and they lead industry, the economy, aircraft manufacturing, etc. wassat
  59. +2
    13 March 2024 03: 32
    The reason for everything is IMPUNITY. And the old principle of Nasreddin - either the donkey dies or the padishah. And the bribes are smooth, here they are!
  60. 0
    13 March 2024 03: 55
    Well written. Not expected.
  61. 0
    13 March 2024 16: 29
    Quote: bayard
    Under the brand name at least Il-929

    An-229
  62. 0
    13 March 2024 19: 27
    The army should be led by a military man, aircraft construction by an aviation design engineer. For now, everything is different with us - the boots are sharpened by a cake maker who loves beautiful reports.
  63. 0
    13 March 2024 19: 59
    Our aviation industry began to be destroyed immediately after the war, when the West realized that the USSR would become a great powerful power with unrivaled combat aviation! They finished it off with the wrong hands during the period of criminal privatization! And what do you want, so that in a few years you can restore at least part of what was there, which was professionally destroyed and stolen! The same drones in the USSR were already developed and tested in the 70s, but the Ministry of Defense abandoned them and transferred them for use in... the oil and gas industry to monitor pipelines.
  64. 0
    13 March 2024 21: 20
    Looks like my comment is in another article. That those at the top are simply waiting for the Chinese to launch mass production of their aircraft and start buying them is becoming prophetic. bully
  65. 0
    13 March 2024 23: 20
    An "effective manager" in the aviation industry needs MONEY!!!! And the “statesmen” need the MONEY TO BE USED!! AND WHERE ARE THE PLANES IN THIS SCHEME??? wassat We live according to this scheme wassat
  66. 0
    14 March 2024 11: 49
    The question is, when will we deal with personnel?
    They work in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, Investigative Committee, tirelessly, looking for bribe-takers. So it’s time to drive out such people from the power structures with a filthy broom, greedy for state money, but I have never heard of Putin firing anyone for not fulfilling the plan, for improper implementation of the plan. Until there is demand from officials, nothing will change.
    Specialists are not needed, they will bring embezzlers and non-professionals out into the open.
    Why have a headache. This is how we live, it sucks...
  67. 0
    14 March 2024 15: 10
    I hope we put a bolt on patent law?
  68. 0
    14 March 2024 19: 32
    Is it really that bad? I'm talking about the endless disruption of deadlines and plans. Well, of course, fewer “superjets” were delivered than planned, but, nevertheless, 232 aircraft were produced. Not so little (by the standards of “Nezalezhnaya”, in any case). You can recall some of our liberals who argued that we do not need airplanes, we will buy everything we need, our problems in the aviation industry are, first of all, their fault. There has been a lot of talk about delays in the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome (including as a result of actions similar to sabotage, I note), but both the first and second stages have been built, and in a month the heavy version of the Angara will be launched. One can recall the long-suffering “Power of Siberia”. How many times have they proven to us that the project will not pay for itself, that it is unprofitable, that it will ruin Gazprom, that it will never be completed. Last year, supplies amounted to approximately 22 billion cubic meters; next year the project will be completed. Now import substitution is underway, it’s going with difficulty, but it’s happening, and even the author notes that 12 MS-21s are being assembled, it’s just that these planes will not reach the airlines at the end of this year (6 were supposed to be delivered), but a little later. In the same States, no one assembles Boeings entirely from their own components, but we are trying to do this, albeit behind schedule.. And so, the road will be mastered by those who walk, it is important that we follow this road, and do not try to follow recipes the same Gaidar..
  69. 0
    15 March 2024 23: 10
    Don’t expect MS-21 in the coming years; too much needs to be replaced with domestic products that simply don’t exist. And all these Manturo-Chemezov production programs (“Visiting a Fairy Tale”) will be moved from 2026 to a later date.
  70. 0
    17 March 2024 15: 42
    Only balloons will save our aircraft industry. Better just a lot of balloons tied to the body of the “airplane”. This is both simpler technologically and, most importantly, more beautiful, because our Leaders love beautiful Parades!
  71. 0
    April 6 2024 16: 57
    Manturov should be rewarded and promoted!!
  72. 0
    April 17 2024 16: 42
    To be honest, I’m more interested in who will be responsible in 2030 for the promises and waste of people’s money that have failed, and they will certainly fail? The GDP will go away in 30, but will the new president have time at the beginning of his term?