World War 2030s. With what atomic sub-melt we will enter it

323

Yaseni-M never had a chance for a large series because of the price, besides, they have a lot of shortcomings. In the photo - "Kazan". Source: press service of PJSC "Northern Machine-Building Enterprise"

The growing risk of American (or Anglo-American) nuclear aggression, the growing threat of which said in a previous article, makes us conduct an audit of our forces, especially since we can roughly guess at what time frame everything can start - by about 2030 and for about, again, a five-year period after.

There, either China is over, or the United States, or the problems with American dominance in the world will somehow be resolved, and the reasons for the war will be significantly less "out of the blue." The war, if it does happen, is most likely in the indicated years (again, approximately) or it will be transferred to an unpredictably distant historical perspective.
Therefore, we need not just a revision of forces, but a revision of the realistic composition of forces for 2030.



First of all, it will be about the Navy.

Forecasting the state of the Navy as a branch of the armed forces is an immense topic. And even a simple analysis of a promising ship composition - too. An attempt to fulfill this was at one time undertaken by another author in a series of articles Russian Navy. A sad look into the future "... A summary analysis and forecast of the ship composition was made in the last article of the series, which can be viewed here... Today it is impossible not to say that Andrey's conclusions turned out to be overly optimistic, everything will be completely different, and this is obvious.

I would like, of course, to also go through all the classes, but, alas, even the updated anti-mine forces are useless without strike and anti-submarine ships and submarines. Therefore, for a start, it makes sense to limit ourselves to combat ships capable of solving tasks in the Far Sea Zone, because they will be needed to thwart an attack on our country. On the basis of this, everything will be clear.

Let's start with nuclear submarines.

Nuclear submarine today and nine years from now


Let's see what we have on fleets there is today and what will happen by 2030.

While the man in the street happily watches patriotic propaganda like "Animal Division", the picture looks like this.

Today, the Northern Fleet formally has the following nuclear submarines in service.


* Medium repair - repair in the middle of the assigned service life. Timely (key word) passage of the average repair is critical in order for the ship to reliably and without restrictions leave the entire period assigned to it.

The plate looks big and it seems that it is necessary to press on with the repair and that's it, but no - it won't work. But it is guaranteed to push only with the "Cheetah", the boat is relatively old, if you send it for medium repair in 2022-2024, then by the time of war it will be in a combat ready state.

The rest of the ships had to be pushed in 2009–2014, when there was money, there were no sanctions, and the ships were not so tired. But the passage of medium repairs and upgrades by third-generation submarines was deliberately disrupted by the responsible persons from the Military-Industrial Commission, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Main Command, in order to "open the way" for the mass construction of "Ash trees", which were supposed to replace the entire "third knee" (according to the apt expression of one of these "responsible": "the third knee must bend"). This was not necessary for the sake of defense capability - just some comrades wanted to push through the "Ash" because they had not done anything else in their life, others wanted to master the budget on this. And they mastered it.

You can briefly read about this in the article by the author. "How the plans to increase the power of Russian submarines arose".

Therefore, it is absolutely inevitable that all these 30+ boats will be decommissioned. By 2030, out of the 3rd generation, only the Leopard, which has undergone a full-fledged medium repair with modernization, will remain in service.

Of course, a miracle can happen, the Navy will show strong-willed super-effort, and the K-335 Gepard and K-154 Tiger will also go through the same upgrade as the Leopard.

Then we can assume that from the current composition of the Northern Fleet's nuclear submarines, Severodvinsk, Kazan, Leopard, with Gepard, Tiger, Yuri Dolgoruky, Prince Vladimir ".

Everything else, even those that are currently undergoing repairs (not average, but HTG - restoration of technical readiness), will be written off.

Of the four mentioned, "Leopard" and "Tiger" will already be "on the brink" - you cannot deceive the age, if the boats are able to fight, then a lot of restrictions will be imposed on them, for example, in terms of diving depth. "Cheetah" - depending on the average repair, without it it can even be written off.

Well, we will repeat, with the "Tiger" it is unlikely, most likely, its average repair is in question.

Did the responsible statesmen succeed in replacing them with "Ash"?

We are looking at what is being built for the Federation Council today.


As you can clearly see, no. Did not work out. And this was clear even when the third generation modernization project was being killed.

This is what the final composition of the Northern Fleet's nuclear submarine forces will be in 2030.


Optionally, the "Tiger" may survive until this date, but this is unlikely for many reasons. It just started to be repaired too late, most likely, “it will not work like a Leopard. Nevertheless, there are still chances.

It is easy to see that for five "strategists" we have six boats capable of covering them (we do not take into account the old Leopard here, even if the boat is still in service, the Tiger, for obvious reasons, too). If we assume that the Navy will act "as usual", then most of the Yasenei-M will be tied to the protection of SSBNs. One can argue about the need for such, but we have no other doctrine of the combat use of submarine forces.

And this, in turn, excludes any offensive actions at sea, even when they are critically needed.

Now let's look at the Pacific Fleet in 2030.

What have we got with the atomic submarine?

So now:


By the way, it is worth digressing here, asking a question to the "hurray-patriots" who usually foaming at the mouth prove that everything is being done correctly in our country, and the author "throws mud at the achievements of Russia."

Guys, are you okay with achievements?

One running multipurpose boat 971 of the project and a pair of "batons" 949A for the entire Pacific theater of operations, for example, is this normal?

Is this such a symbol of our greatness?

Do you want to give a couple of reasons why this is the way it should be?


Let's go back, however, to the numbers.

We again have an outwardly large sign, but which of it is guaranteed to live until 2030?

Only Irkutsk is guaranteed, and its condition by this year will probably be like the Leopard, that is, the boat is combat-ready, but possibly with limitations, for example, in depth (or maybe not).

Kuzbass will definitely be written off from the multipurpose ones. He now serves alone for the entire fleet, it cannot go for nothing, by 2030 the boat will be decommissioned.

Of the remaining three 971s, one unit with the highest possible probability will go to India, apparently, K-295 "Samara" or K-331 (formerly "Magadan", but this is less likely), two that have been repaired will remain, but their status in 2030 depends on what kind of repairs will be carried out there. If technical readiness is restored, then they will have to be written off guaranteed by this year. If "like a Leopard" or a well-made average repair, albeit without modernization, then by 2030 the Pacific Fleet will have two running and relatively combat-ready "Pike-B".

In the case of "only medium repair" - with old torpedoes and unusable, hydroacoustic countermeasures, without anti-torpedoes, but, for example, with anti-submarine missiles and mines. Well, even so ...

Such a boat cannot win a duel with "Virdizhnya" or "Taigei", but you can sink a ship or place mines while no one sees. Well, of course, he can get lucky in battle.

All this does not apply to the "Borey", of course, it was about the submarines of the general purpose forces. Boreas are new, they normally reach 2030, as in the North, but then they will need to be repaired.

And what is being built there?


Well, just like in the case of the Northern Fleet, let's summarize.


It is easy to see that even taking into account the miraculously preserved 971s, the Pacific Fleet, like the Northern Fleet, does not have enough strength to attack and defend the SSBN. At the same time, we keep in mind that if Samara and Bratsk receive not average repairs, but HTG, then by 2030 they will be guaranteed to be written off, and they will not be on the plate, and only five boats will remain - four Yasenya-M "And 42-year-old" Irkutsk ".

And, of course, it will not work to allocate submarines to disrupt the American strike while maintaining the requirement to cover the deployment of SSBNs.

Here we need to remember something else as well.

About the fact that Ash has "dead" means of hydroacoustic counteraction.

About them in the article by M. Klimov "Anti-torpedo catastrophe". About the fact that there are no anti-torpedoes, and in general the boats were surrendered with imperfections. About the incomprehensible situation with the "Physicist" torpedoes and the lack of modern telecontrol for them. Again, you can recall a number of materials on "Ash", for example,
"AICR" Severodvinsk "surrendered to the Navy with critical deficiencies for combat readiness",
"Pitfalls" "Severodvinsk-M" (APKR "Kazan"),
"Anti-torpedo disaster" of the Russian fleet.

At one time, the author published an article “Fleet without ships. Russian Navy on the verge of collapse ", which caused a certain resonance, up to the introduction of money for a refutation article to one stupid blogger. They turned out so-so.

And now the time has come, and we see - the fleet seems to be as it is (in any case, finances have been mastered oh-ho), and there are almost no submarines in it. The collapse is obvious, moreover, the surface forces are the same.

In 2030, Great Britain will either have parity (if the Cheetah and Leopard remain in service), or superiority in the number of nuclear submarines over the Northern Fleet. One or two units. With the superiority of "Astyut" over "Ash-M" in the underwater weapons and stealth.
Even Australia, according to the published plans of the Anglo-Saxons, should have eight multipurpose nuclear submarines by 2036. And the Pacific Fleet will have from four (excluding 971s) to six, plus the seventh - "Irkutsk". The enemy again has both quantitative and qualitative superiority, and again he has it without the Americans (if Australia succeeds, frankly speaking, there may be difficulties there).

So it turns out that a kind of anecdotal project of global Britain is gaining numerical superiority over Russia in nuclear submarines, even without the United States. While maintaining quality.

And, together with the United States, the ability to crush our country with a sudden, disarming nuclear strike.

I would like to ask those who have been behind our shipbuilding policy since the 2000s: “Gentlemen, what was that all about? Stupidity, or is it intent? "

However, there will be no answer. Although some people worked for this very result quite consciously.

Were there other options?


The RF Ministry of Defense has long and consciously embarked on a policy of refusing to urgently correct critical shortcomings in the combat training of the Navy and naval development, preferring to flood everything with propaganda. It is difficult to say why, but the Ministry of Defense is ready to spend more on show than on real combat training - just not to solve real problems. This is often not the case in the Ground Forces, sometimes it is not so in the Aerospace Forces, but it is almost always the case in the Navy. This is precisely the principled approach: “We will not prepare for war anyway, so that you don’t shout from below, okay?”

But the Defense Ministry's propaganda machine will certainly be set in motion. And, as soon as the people realize the meaning of the numbers given in the tablets, then, without fail, through hired bots and controlled forums, the thesis will be thrown into society en masse that, they say, yes, there are few submarines, but the economy simply does not allow it anymore.

Due to the seriousness of the issue, this lie must be crushed in advance, at birth.

So, let's look at whether it was possible to take somewhere not only money, but also building places?

Oh yes, and haven't we lost the "extra" submarines somewhere yet?

First, let's deal with the latter right away.

As you know, PLASN "Belgorod" - the second after "Sarov" carrier of nuclear torpedoes "Poseidon", was launched recently.


The Belgorod could have been a valuable tactical unit, but it did not. Photo: Andrey Shuvalov

We can safely say that this "Belgorod-Poseidon" link will never be used for its intended purpose - given the weakness of the general-purpose forces, the boat with mega-torpedoes simply cannot reach the launch point (they cannot be launched anywhere). Some Virginia or Seawolf will shoot her. Or Astyut, or maybe Taigei.

And the super torpedoes themselves are a pointless thing. They are quite intercepted along the way. That is, if we now invest billions in the combat stability of Belgorod, then ... nothing. That he has time to shoot with Poseidons, that he does not have time - the result will be the same.

Completely meaningless system.

For those interested in the question, but who missed the analysis of "Poseidons" - a few materials.

A. Timokhin. Poseidon Atomic Drone: A Useless Superweapon.
M. Klimov "Status" dead end ".
M. Klimov "SPA Poseidon" / "Status-6". To the detriment of real defense capability ”.

But this whole feast during the plague cost us one Project 949AM submarine, from which the Belgorod was built! Unlike our usual "loaves" and even the modernized "Irkutsk", "Belgorod" immediately implemented a lot of solutions to reduce noise. This boat would have come out of the building with the ability to use the Caliber and Onyx missiles. Equipped with anti-torpedoes, which was quite possible, and modern torpedoes, this boat could have won a battle that would have started with a sudden torpedo attack against it "out of nowhere."

And the rockets would be very useful in strikes on the coast, and would become a factor that the "partners" cannot ignore.

This boat is now lost, turned into a gigantic and insanely expensive toy for the GUGI, which simply cannot technically function as intended.

So, here is one lost submarine, here is one construction site occupied by her killing as a full-fledged combat unit, and here is all the money spent on it.

Few?

Okay, let's continue.

Khabarovsk is another nuclear submarine being built for the GUGI for the Poseidon system, another useless waste of everything: from money to metal. Another lost opportunity to build something worthwhile on this place and with this money. At the cost of "Khabarovsk" and saws on a nuclear torpedo, it would be quite possible to build another "Ash-M", no matter how many disadvantages this submarine has, and even this is better than none. And you would have had time! And there, you see, they would try to eliminate the shortcomings ...

So, here's the second sub, the second build site, and the money spent.


The presumably strong hull of the Khabarovsk submarine under construction, pr. 09851, in workshop No. 50 of the Sevmash Production Association (frame from the video shown in the State Duma on 01.03.2018/XNUMX/XNUMX). Source: militaryrussia.ru, DIMMI blog

Two lost submarines were found.

All?

No.

We look at the photo.

What is there in the boathouse of the Amur Shipyard (ASZ)?

Yeah. 971st "Pike-B".

World War 2030s. With what atomic sub-melt we will enter it
Source: premier.gov.ru

What is she doing there?

Yes, the place has been occupying for many years, either at 40 or at 60 percent readiness. This is the last boat in the series - "Irbis", aka "519th order". And no one needs it, this submarine, although this unit can be completed in a modernized form, with the elimination of some of the inherent flaws of the 971 project in terms of stealth, with modern hydroacoustics, new weapons ...

Yes, she will have to "implant" something from "Ash-M", so what, isn't it possible? Is it bad?

Moreover, a huge amount of work on the boat has already been done. The project has someone to do, SPMBM "Malachite" is alive and well.

Yes, NEA is now clearly not in a position to complete this project on its own. But he is included in the USC! As well as "Sevmash".

USC that cannot temporarily maneuver with specialists and material resources? Why, then, is such an ineffective structure needed?

The third submarine was found. And the place.

And most of the money has already been spent on it, of course, they are also needed to complete the construction, but would our country not have financially mastered this separately?

But nothing is done, the boat continues to stand.

I wonder if it will turn out that they will begin to cut it right before the American strike from under the water?

The cognitive dissonance of the surviving carvers will be especially strong in this case.

Few?

No question, now there will be more, but for now we will ask the Ministry of Defense and the supporters of the "party line" questions - this is all before the Third World War, what is this? Is this how it should be? And if so, why, for what purpose are all these, to put it mildly, tricks arranged?

Moreover, these are very expensive and resource-intensive tricks!


In the meantime, we will fix the answer to the theorists of financial insufficiency: for the money spent on toys - we would have one noiseless and armed "all the way" "loaf", another "Ash-M" would be completed, and yes - "Irbis" is also nowhere from the Amur the plant has not disappeared. So you have no money. So much for the industry at its limit.

And the GUGI could easily have done without these two submarines, they were needed only for "hitting" at nuclear torpedoes, the other tasks of the GUGI are solved without them, in extreme cases, the decommissioned SSBNs of the 667BDRM project have not yet been cut, from this "raw material" of boats for the GUGI it is possible "Rivet" as much as you like on the model of the submarine "Podmoskovye".

But we will continue.

Medium repairs, titanium cases and upgrades


To understand what went wrong, it is worth understanding the concept of "average repair" in relation to nuclear submarines.

This repair is called “medium” because it is carried out in the middle of the ship's life. For each project, the development organization has determined a list of works that should be part of the mid-life repair. Alas, in the main, instead of the repairs stipulated by the regulatory documents, the so-called "restoration of technical readiness" is carried out - VTG, about which the general designer of project 949A and other ships of the Central Design Bureau "Rubin" IL Baranov wrote:

The existing and currently operating system for extending the overhaul period, based on the activation of the alleged actual state of systems and mechanisms by mainly personnel with the involvement of specialists from the Central Design Bureau - the designer of the ship without detailed examination of general ship equipment (except for PPU and PTU) is vicious, harmful and potentially dangerous , since it formally gives the right to put a submarine out to sea without any guarantee of its return to base ...

Taken hence.

Here it is necessary to say the following - HTG needs to be streamlined and legalized, formulating such requirements for their implementation, which would allow solving the problem described by I. L. Baranov, and prescribing them in regulatory documents. Then, the old boats that have undergone medium repairs can be “run” through these new high-temperature turbines closer to the end of their service life, and ensure that they remain in service and combat-ready throughout the dangerous historical period in the first half of the 2030s.

The Soviet-built submarines listed in the tables - projects 971, 949A, 945A and 671RTMK did not receive medium repairs and continued to pass mainly HTG. This is a completely different scope of work. After undergoing a medium repair, the service life of the submarine is usually extended by ten years, and after HTG - by three.

Medium repair is an excellent reason for modernization, since at this moment a very large number of ship systems are dismantled in accordance with the repair technology, and if there is a ready-made modernization project, it can be performed together with a medium repair almost without additional time investment.

This is exactly what was done with Leopard and Irkutsk. And this is exactly what was not done with the rest of the submarines.

That is why "Leopard" and "Irkutsk" will meet the thirties in the ranks, and with their more or less moderate use, they will also have minimal or no restrictions.

The Leopard is being taken out of the boathouse. So far, this is the only boat of the 971 project with a mid-range repair and modernization. Photo: TV channel "Zvezda"

What will limit the lifespan of submarines that have received average repairs?

Firstly, the state of the trunk cable routes - they do not change during average repairs, as this will make its cost prohibitively expensive. Their lifespan is about 40 years. Extending the life of cable routes is accompanied by enormous difficulties and minimal gain - in a matter of years.

The second thing that will limit the life of the submarine is the condition of its solid hull. The hull is under severe stress when the boat is submerged, and in the case of deep diving, they are especially great.

We will also give a little-known fact to the public - for a submarine, not only the maximum depth and working immersion are normalized, but also the time spent on it. The loads are so great on a solid case.

Accordingly, the service life of boats that underwent medium repair and modernization on time would be limited by cable routes and hulls. It can be more or less confidently assumed that almost all third-generation boats would have to be written off at about 44-45 years of service, due to the fact that it would no longer be possible to repair cable routes and guarantee the safety of diving.

Now let's look at the tables above.

In 2030, out of the entire third generation, which is in service today, only seven submarines in two fleets would come close to this age, the rest would have to serve for another 7-10 years (excluding SSBNs). And this means that they would have entered the world war of the mid-thirties still in a combat-ready state, but, apparently, they would not have been able to dive too deeply.

Failure to modernize and repair the third generation nullified this possibility.

The second problem is that carrying out a full-fledged medium repair with modernization would allow to "cheer up" ship repair to such an extent that by the time of the medium repair of the Ash, this industry would be able to provide it - and now this is far from a fact, boats are "problematic »In terms of repairs, with a very tight layout and poor maintainability.

The need to provide average repair of all Ash trees within one ten-year period (since almost all of them are rented out within one ten-year period) will become a most difficult challenge for the domestic industry, which will definitely not be ready for it. And I could have prepared in the third generation.

However, it is possible that they will all be overheated, and they simply will not need medium repairs, but it is impossible to make plans for the development of the fleet on such a probability!

Link to the article "How the plans to increase the power of Russian submarines arose" has already been given, but it is not a sin to repeat it.

Why was the repair program “hacked”?

Let's repeat - to master the budgets on the super-expensive "Ash".

And no one thought that there was a mass of useless or dubious expenditure items, the reduction of which would have given the necessary funds - from patrol ships of Project 22160 and further to the Poseidon nuclear torpedo.

Let us fix, therefore, that by the time of the possible start of the next war, we could have much more submarines, without a significant increase in the budget.

Reducing the series 22160 and 20386, we get at least four ones, which can still fight in the mid-thirties, and together with the mutilated and lost military significance "Belgorod", "not happened" boat instead of "Khabarovsk" and "Irbis" - already plus seven. And - within the same budget, without increasing costs! Or almost no increase, we agree.

Clever militarism is inexpensive.

And if you add just a little, cutting down on some other things, such as naval parades?

And if so, then there were other options, albeit more expensive, but also more interesting, quite feasible for the country. Let's take a look at them.

Let's go back to the cable routes first.

If they so limit the life of the submarine, then maybe they can be changed?

In fact, it is unprofitable, the cost of replacement is enormous and under normal conditions does not justify itself, and in this case it is really better to write off the ship.

But this is under normal conditions.

And in the pre-war?

And in the pre-war - on the contrary.

Even if we assume that the replacement of cable routes on one boat costs as much as a quarter of the construction of the same new one, then this means what?

This means that for the price of one boat, we will receive four in the combat strength. Just a little outdated. Moreover, if this is not done, then this one new boat cannot be built with the proceeds - there is nowhere. And there is still where to replace the cable routes.

But here the problem of a small residual resource of durable hulls arises - there is nothing to be done with them, right?

True, with one exception.

The Russian Federation has at its disposal not only steel submarines, for which everything described above is true, but also titanium submarines, projects 945 and 945A. The first of them have already been withdrawn from service. In the early 2010s, they wanted to modernize them along with the rest of the third generation, and then they were sharply "wished for" ("Ash trees", "Poseidons"), and the boats are now "in sludge". Two 945A are running, and by 2030 they will be written off "along cable routes" and the general technical condition, since they did not receive an average repair.


PLA B-276 "Kostroma" of project 945 in "sludge". This boat, like the other 945th - B-239 "Karp", has already been withdrawn from the Navy. But titanium cases last a very long time.

What are the specifics of titanium boats?

In strength.

Their robust housings can withstand loads much better than steel ones and have a significantly longer service life. And here we are suddenly faced with another situation - now the pre-war replacement of cable routes on the boat, albeit very expensive, but justified by the receipt of a combat unit, is not depreciated by the state of the strong hull, because this state allows the boat to serve for many more years.

Open sources indicate that all titanium submarines had to be upgraded. None of them underwent even average repairs. But the developer of "Ash", SPMBM "Malakhit" in some incomprehensible way was able to take possession of the rights and documentation for these boats, apparently with the help of some important and even respected "state" figures, "wringing" the rights to "Lazurit" own submarine.

It is for the sake of no modernization, but would be almost trillion (in the future, when "Ash" still have to finish, eliminating their shortcomings) the cost of a series of Malachite monsters - not without the flow of some of this money into the pockets of important, respected and state, of course.

And here we need to make two reservations.

Yes, even the third generation boats that have undergone medium repair and modernization would have to be written off in the mid-thirties. Perhaps they would have made it to the war, and probably not, or they would have made it with operating restrictions. Part would have had time, of course ...

But the "Barracudas" and "Condors" could well not just be repaired and modernized, but rebuilt to a high level of combat effectiveness, precisely because of their hulls. For a cost comparable to one Yasenem-M, you can get four boats comparable to the Yasenem-M, albeit somewhat inferior in a number of features. And by the beginning of the war they would have done it - without imposing restrictions on the boats.

Yes, there is also the issue of the resource of the main turbo-gear units - GTZA. But you need to deal with it, which is called individually. In any case, the "Zip" GTZA will be in stock after the write-off of a number of submarines. In general, we will restrict ourselves to the fact that this issue is solvable.

This is roughly what was “blown into the wind”. In the pre-war years, recall the years. Every time now or later, when everything happens, corrupt online workers from bot farms will write to you on the Internet that there was not enough time for preparation, the economy did not allow - remember how it really was there. Because if at least something remains of the Russian Federation, and at least one of the current ruling class retains at least some influence, then all of the above will be hidden by all available means.

And now we turn to the most important thing - these titanium hulls have not gone anywhere, and it is with these boats that nothing is lost.

"Titanium fish" for the third world


This last failure - the refusal to modernize project 945 and 945A titanium submarines - should be the starting point.

We cannot build anything other than what has already been laid down - there simply will not be enough time.

The resources of 971 projects are limited, and if some of them will be able to survive until the mid-thirties, if they receive medium repairs and upgrades, then that's it. If a war breaks out in 2036–2037, at best they will be on the verge of being written off, and most likely already written off, leaving behind only a "revived" ship repair.

With the modernization of the "loafs" of Project 949A, Russia is basically completely late, moreover, we need ships that can conduct offensive operations in different conditions, cruising submarines.

There are no new budget projects that could be started to build right now.

Project 545 Laika - it will be a tragedy worse than the Ash, and obviously this ship will not be in time by the start of the war, and as a result, the inadequacy of this project will become clear not only to specialists, but in general to everyone - the boat, in fact, repeats the ideology “ Ash-M ".

But titanium cases are a chance. The opportunity to get four relatively good multipurpose submarines by about 2030 is a plus to the composition that is guaranteed to be in service today by this year.

Most importantly, to rebuild boats, it is not necessary to use the factories where the boats are built, everything can be done at repair factories. Moreover, all subsystems can be taken from ready-made projects.

Four cruising submarines are four cruising submarines: if the surface forces and aviation will be able to disorganize the enemy's anti-submarine defense, or if it is possible to competently introduce submarines "into action" before the outbreak of hostilities, then they will become a serious force of great importance.

And most importantly, after such a restructuring, they can continue to serve for many years, for example, if the war does not happen after all, or if they can somehow survive it. This does not mean that they will have to be kept in service forever, after all, this is precisely a "pre-war" decision, but then they can be changed later quietly, without haste, planning new boats without such violence over the economy, which became the series " Ash-M ".

And of course, on the eve of the average repair of the Yasenei-M after 2035, the restructuring of the four titanium submarines will be an excellent training session.

The question arises - where to get additional money for all this?

The sums there will be considerable, apparently, for four submarines rebuilt in this way, several tens of billions of rubles will have to be paid, that is, the cost of "Borey-A" and higher.

There is an answer - it is necessary to finance the subject of the Poseidon nuclear torpedo and start cutting the budgets of PR events such as the main naval parade in St. Petersburg. Then it will be much easier to finance the submarines.

There is still the question of "Khabarovsk", the construction of which also requires a lot of money due to the uniqueness of its equipment (this is the carrier of the deep-sea stations of the GUGI) and weapons (SPA "Poseidon"). Generally speaking, it can simply be frozen, and that's it, and the money saved can be used for the projects listed above.

There is only one exception - if it is possible, using the reserve of "Khabarovsk", to redesign it into a multipurpose submarine and build it in this capacity.

It is not at all a fact that it is possible, and it is not at all a fact that it is rational for financial reasons, even after adjusting for the pre-war time. But this issue needs to be worked out.
And if this option is not rational, then just stop the construction site and deal with this boat sometime later, when the tension in the world decreases. Maybe a sturdy case will do something later someday.

What other options are there?

Scraping out the last or Indian reserves


What else can be done?

First, stop preparing the handover of one of India's boats. Obviously, the Indians are given a boat with the best cable routes and a solid hull, which will be able to sail a year until 2033 at least.

You need to keep it for yourself, and, having modernized it, return it to the combat strength. India should be offered ... the construction of "Ash-M" at its shipyards. Such a decision will bring a lot of money, for the sake of transfer such The Indians will do everything, including political concessions, which are very important before the war, and domestic suppliers will in any case earn on this construction the same way as on the construction of Yasenya-M in Russia, or even more. Russia does not lose anything here, the concept on which the 885M project was invented is no longer relevant, in the future, in order to deal with anti-submarine defense, completely different boats will be needed.

At the same time, we can safely assume that the harsh formulation of problematic issues on the part of Indian sailors will force SPMBM "Malachite" to bring its offspring "to mind."

But by 2030 we will have another boat, which, perhaps, normally reaches the war.

All?

No.

There is also another Indian boat - "Chakra", she is "Nerpa". To date, the Indian Navy has returned it to Russia. This event was reviewed by M. Klimov in his article "Submarine" Chakra "is going home. Achievements and Challenges of Our Underwater Export ".

It is difficult to say in what condition the submarine is now - on the one hand, the Indians very carefully watched the nuclear submarines that were previously transferred to them. On the other hand, for some reason it was returned, and its operating conditions were much tougher than those of Russian nuclear submarines. But we can safely assume that if the Nerpa is capable of being repaired in principle, then it can be returned to service already in the Russian Navy.

Of course, you need to carefully examine the solid hulls of all available multipurpose submarines, even those that have already been decommissioned (the same project 945 has been withdrawn), perhaps there will also be candidates for the "resurrection of the dead." And then they also need to be “put in line”.

However, if it does, it is pure luck, and it is impossible to make plans for it.

Results. We find lost boats, and in general


We summarize.

If in peacetime it is required to build up military power strictly rationally, then in the pre-war time it is necessary to slightly shift the emphasis and rely on the growth of military power even in the absence of budgetary savings in this process: if only the power was real, and not “Potemkin villages, it’s expensive”, as it is now.

It so happened that due to the "pushing" by dishonest people of super-expensive "underwater battleships" of the "Ash-M" type (albeit without "armor" - anti-torpedoes, and with problematic "shells" - torpedoes), new submarines by 2030 our Navy will have only nine units, plus a couple (if the Tiger is saved - three) modernized ones. Against the United States, Great Britain and possibly Australia (not counting their allies' non-nuclear boats).

A less expensive and complex project, and even more effective in underwater combat than the "Ash-M", and suitable specifically for mass construction, in our country did not even appear because of this error.

But there were prerequisites.

Just a quote from an article (2005) by the chief designer of the 677th project, Yu.N. Kormilitsyn:

“Currently, the feasibility of creating and maintaining one or another type of nuclear submarine is one of the most controversial issues due to the high cost of design, construction, operation and disposal, as well as because of the ambiguous assessment of the role of a nuclear submarine (NPS) in the system naval weapons in the post-Cold War period. The creators of multipurpose submarines of all the leading maritime powers of the world are concerned about the solution of this issue. An intensive research work is underway to find out which is better and cheaper: non-nuclear or atomic energy; large single floating submarine arsenals of weapons on nuclear submarines of large displacement or mass submarines of limited displacement; attained outwardly very effective, but too “noisy” speeds over 30 knots or “quiet speeds”, but relatively cheaper (2 or more times!). An analysis of the conditions of real theaters of military operations and the expected enemy countermeasures shows that multipurpose nuclear submarines (MTS nuclear submarines) must solve tasks that will be similar to the tasks of new generation non-nuclear submarines for the marginal seas and the near sea zone.
Applying the method of constructive transformation at the stage of the technical design of a diesel-electric submarine in 1977, we proposed to create on the basis of its block modules a small multipurpose nuclear submarine Un = 2500 t. Since then, CDB MT "Rubin" together with leading institutes and enterprises of the industry as well as by the specialists of the Navy, it is constantly developing this direction.
The concept of military-economic efficiency based on the method of constructive transformation makes it possible to achieve significant financial savings both at the R&D stage and in the preparation of production and construction of submarines. At the same time, a small nuclear submarine can be built in parallel with a basic non-nuclear submarine at the same shipyard, using a single technology, using one technological equipment. Taking into account the principle of basicity in the formation of submarine forces, convenience for the training of crews is provided, and the operation of boats is simplified and made cheaper. "

And further -

"In the current economic conditions, the design and construction of cheap and efficient enough multipurpose nuclear submarines of limited displacement, designed on the basis of technical solutions and equipment of the non-nuclear submarines" Lada "under construction, is the preferred and only real opportunity to renew the ship composition of the nuclear submarine fleet."

Link.

You can also cite as an example the article by M. Klimov "Does our fleet need a small multipurpose nuclear submarine?", which provides a number of justifications for the need for such boats right now.

That is, there were options to build a large and efficient, but inexpensive fleet, they were calculated. But on my mind were only "Ash", or rather, their price tags.

Medium boat repairs and upgrades, which would have made the fleet more numerous in the first half of the 30s, were also slaughtered so that there was enough money for new submarines - of which, as we found out, there are nine in total.

The results can no longer be hidden.

In these conditions, taking into account the pre-war time, it is necessary to do the following:

1. To carry out the completion of the submarine "Irbis" in a modernized form. The scope and direction of modernization is a topic for a separate conversation, for now we will restrict ourselves to the fact that it is necessary and possible. One boat.

2. For the leopard submarine being handed over, set limits on the depth of immersion and other loads right now, in order to provide a durable hull resource sufficient for conducting hostilities until 2035 at least. To develop and implement a set of measures to extend the life of cable routes, including within the framework of the "new high-temperature gas pipeline", the legalization of which urgently needs to be dealt with.

3. The categorical condition is to carry out medium repair and modernization of the K-335 "Gepard". This boat will easily serve until the mid-30s in this case, and if you keep it like a "Leopard", then to the end. It would be a crime to lose this ship, but it should be repaired in 2022-2023, the edge in 2024.

4. Rebuild all submarines of projects 945 and 945A using modern systems, with the replacement of cable routes and, if necessary, replacement or repair of GTZA. Plus four boats.

5. To study the possibility of carrying out medium repairs with modernization on other submarines of project 971, which are now in the Zvyozdochka CS and in the fleets, if it is possible to ensure the operation of such a boat with the same restrictions as the Leopard until about 2035, carry out they have medium repairs with modernization. Perhaps plus one or two boats.

6. Refuse to transfer one Project 971 submarine (apparently, the former Magadan K-331 or K-295 Samara) to India, and propose the joint construction of Project 885M submarines. At the same time, the Indians, apparently, will force us, at least on their boat, to correct the existing serious design flaws, and where their boat is, there are ours.

Plus for us - the opportunity to get the boat back into the Navy for several years. Plus one more boat.

7. To partially finance these programs, stop funding the Poseidon program, as well as the development and construction of submarines for this "weapon" (let it be considered a weapon). It is necessary to freeze the construction of "Khabarovsk" until the time when it becomes possible to redesign it into something useful, or, if possible, rebuild it into a multipurpose submarine (this is, however, unlikely). Perhaps this is another multipurpose submarine.

8. To restore and return to the combat strength "Nerpa". Plus one.

9. To work out the issue of building submarines on the basis of Project 677 with a nuclear main power plant. If it becomes possible to have time to build at least a small series of such submarines by the early thirties, then this must be done. If not ... Well, at least start the development with an eye to the future, suddenly we will be able to stay alive.

A list of submarines that are guaranteed to be in service by 2030–2035 in a combat readiness condition, subject to the implementation of the measures under items 1, 4, 5, in addition to the lists above:

PLA "Irbis", the original project 971 "Shchuka-B".
PLA B-239 "Karp", the original pr. 945 "Barracuda".
PLA B-276 "Kostroma", the original pr. 945 "Barracuda".
PLA K-534 "Nizhny Novgorod", the original project 945A, is now in service.
PLA K-336 "Okun", the original pr. 945A, is now in service.

A list of submarines that, if a number of requirements are met and the technical condition is suitable for medium repair and modernization, it may be possible to return to service (although, probably not, alas):

PLA K-154 "Tiger", the original project 971 "Pike-B".
PLA K-295 "Samara", the original project 971 "Shchuka-B".
K-331 former "Magadan", original project 971 "Shchuka-B".
PLA K-152 "Nerpa", the original project 971 "Schuka-B".
TO-? "Khabarovsk" - if it turns out to be technically and financially possible to rebuild it.

Combat boats without medium repair and modernization by 2030 will have already been decommissioned, maybe the Gepard will still be sailing, but not a fact.

Thus, to one "Ash", eight "Ash-M", "Cheetah" (it is not clear only in what state), "Leopard" and "Irkutsk", which will make up our nuclear submarine fleet in 2030, excluding SSBNs , with a change in approaches, from five (one of them is new) to ten (of which two are new) multipurpose nuclear submarines can be added, as a result of which we will have not 12 submarines in two fleets, but 17-22. And this must be done without fail - a fleet without ships cannot fight against a fleet with ships, and we are being brought to this very point.

At the same time, it will be necessary to do without the construction of new "Ash-M", which the state will certainly try to impose the businessmen from the "defense" as salvation, if someone from the country's top leadership finally counts the submarines in the Navy.

In theory, of course, the country will have time to build another Ash-M. But, firstly, no more than one, and secondly, not only in the nuclear submarine fleet we have a collapse in numbers on the way, but also in the surface, and most importantly, everything is bad in the economy itself, and this is the case when have to keep without money.

All this does not negate, of course, the need to have on each submarine and modern torpedoes with telecontrol, and the latest hydroacoustic countermeasures, and anti-torpedoes. All this is very necessary, and, by the way, it will also cost a lot of money.

At first it is necessary that these things have something to bet on.

But what is definitely not needed is the construction of new SSBNs. There are already more of them than the fleet can deploy with at least minimal enemy opposition. Do not need anymore. Not a single ship.

In the next review, a similar analysis of surface forces and diesel-electric submarines will be made.

Продолжение следует ...
323 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +19
    26 October 2021 05: 03
    The author is right in many ways! The situation with the nuclear submarine fleet is not as rosy as the progandons from the irons are broadcasting. If the professionals in the leadership of the RF Ministry of Defense understand this, why are not the necessary steps taken to correct it?
    1. +18
      26 October 2021 05: 21
      Are there still professionals in the leadership of our Defense Ministry? Commerce reigns supreme there. Professionals are "finished off" by expelling them from everywhere, the Kremlin is not interested in them, because they require money, and real protection of the country's interests, and this does not make money!
      1. +10
        26 October 2021 05: 26
        Alexander hi now hats will fly at you en masse! The layman hates the truth, especially when it is very bitter! Now you will be offered "Superhusky" which at night right in the Kremlin and will gather fervor, since the shipyards are busy, and there are not enough specialists! Only, the country will have to fight with what is available, you can't get anything else from anywhere! This means that the remnants of our fleet will quickly gurgle and go down in history. ...
        1. +22
          26 October 2021 05: 48
          Alexander, Russia and the surface fleet do not have, but about submarines. .. sadness is melancholy! Instead of building the Aesins, and modernizing the Sarychs, they set up 15-day rickets, not holding a 4-point wave, with 8 missiles, but they could have built REAL warships! How many ammunition pennants do we have (do not count the wretchedness of the Karakurtobuyan type)? In any part of the world, NATO, or separately the Yankees, our fleet will drown faster than an alcoholic of newly born kittens! The Kremlin doesn’t need a navy, it doesn’t need a strong army, it’s not their own children to fight for the country! So, everything will remain as it is, that is, very bad, or rather disgusting, as the true, overseas masters of Russia want to see.
          1. -3
            26 October 2021 14: 09
            Have questions:
            1. So our bourgeoisie declare war on other bourgeoisie, and we, on pain of death of ourselves and our loved ones from the occupation, are fighting for the interests of our bourgeoisie? 1914-1917 was not enough?
            2. Are you sure that there are still advanced Soviet technologies for working with titanium cases?
            3. Do Central Asians know how to work in such industries?
            1. +4
              26 October 2021 21: 02
              And yet you are either a hamster or a provocateur.
          2. +9
            26 October 2021 19: 25
            The problem is not even in the Yankee fleet, objectively the strongest in the world for the last century, but in the fact that already local players such as Japan or Turkey can unwind our fleet almost into one gate. And the author's accounts are that we will not ensure the main task of the ocean-going fleet - the protection of SSBNs until the launch of missiles in the event of a global mess.
          3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +26
        26 October 2021 05: 29
        Quote: Thrifty
        Are there still professionals in the leadership of our Defense Ministry? Commerce reigns supreme there.

        Yes, this happens in all state structures, not only the Ministry of Defense.
        The comprador and colonial administration cannot do otherwise. They want loyal dodgers, not professionals. And they are successfully promoting Khokhloma on rockets and actresses in space.
        1. +4
          26 October 2021 06: 03
          and where are the "confused" where have disappeared, screaming "vyvsevrete"?
          1. +5
            26 October 2021 22: 16
            You're all lying! wassat
      3. -5
        26 October 2021 06: 47
        The main military temple has been built, everything is under control! While transgender people are appointed admirals in the United States, there is a post-Bolshevik revival of spirituality in Russia.
        1. +26
          26 October 2021 07: 22
          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          in Russia there is a revival of spirituality after the Bolsheviks

          This is not spirituality, this is obscurantism. Revival of spirituality is when temples are built together with schools and colleges, and not instead of them. When the subject of ORCSE is added to the subjects in the school curriculum, but not in the loss of the rest of the curriculum.
          1. -27
            26 October 2021 07: 39
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Revival of spirituality is when temples are built together with schools and colleges, and not instead of them.

            And when churches are blown up and drunken revolutionary sailors drown and shoot naval officers, this is the triumph of socialism.
            1. +26
              26 October 2021 11: 18
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              And when churches are blown up and drunken revolutionary sailors drown and shoot naval officers, this is the triumph of socialism.

              And what else could you expect from people equated to dogs?
              The soldier is taught in words about the high rank of the warrior, and not so long ago on the fences of parks, squares and at the entrances during the walk, he could read "Do not drive dogs", and next to them - "The lower ranks are not allowed to enter." The order on such streets for the lower ranks not to walk, I had to read not so long ago in the orders for the garrison.
              © Count F.A. Keller
              1. 0
                30 October 2021 22: 00
                "The lower ranks are prohibited from entering." The order for the lower ranks not to walk on such streets, I had to read it not so long ago ...


                In the 70s, he was a schoolboy in the 5th grade. After reading this, I remembered how an elderly geography teacher once said to us in class: "There were times when soldiers were forbidden to enter the central streets of our city even on dismissal." And this was not at the time of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                1. 0
                  31 October 2021 12: 45
                  Quote: Rt-12
                  In the 70s, he was a schoolboy in the 5th grade. After reading this, I remembered how an elderly geography teacher once said to us in class: "There were times when soldiers were forbidden to enter the central streets of our city even on dismissal." And this was not at the time of the Republic of Ingushetia.

                  EMNIP, in Soviet times there really were streets and areas where it was better for the personnel not to enter. But not because there were signs that "the lower ranks are not allowed entry", but because there were patrols there, digging even to the angle of rotation with which the buttons were sewn. However, the patrols were dangerous for the officers too.
                  1. 0
                    1 November 2021 10: 45
                    You know, as I then understood from her words, there was a ban on entering the central streets of the city. The ban was oral (there were no signs), and not that it was better not to go there because of the raging patrols.
                    As I understand it, this was at the time of Comrade. Art.
                    And when I served and went to the "uval" we also did not meddle in the city center, the patrols could "get to the bottom" of anything, but there was no ban.
            2. 0
              26 October 2021 11: 58
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              And when churches and drunken revolutionary sailors blow up

              There is no need to go to extremes. Spirituality is an idea, and Semin spoke well about the idea. Take 10 minutes wondering. hi
            3. +8
              26 October 2021 12: 07
              Quote: Bashkirkhan
              And when churches are blown up and drunken revolutionary sailors drown and shoot naval officers, this is the triumph of socialism.
              No, this is justice. Did you think that when the priests extorted the last money from the peasants for confession, threatening with prison (such were the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia for Orthodox Christians) it could remain unavenged? Or when the officers were shooting the revolutionary sailors, they hoped that there would be no return?
              1. -2
                26 October 2021 12: 28
                when the priests extorted the last money from the peasants for confession, threatening with prison (these were the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia for the Orthodox)

                Specifically, what law spoke about this? I bet you won't. According to the laws of RI, once a year it was necessary to provide a certificate at the place of service (it does not apply to peasants) about participation in confession and communion. I agree, Peter I introduced a stupid norm, but the nonsense that you brought here, where did it come from? Apparently from the ceiling. Or from your own fantasies.
                1. +6
                  26 October 2021 12: 31
                  Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                  Specifically, what law spoke about this? I bet you won't name
                  Lost.
                  Decree of Her Imperial Majesty the Autocrat of All Russia, from the Governing Senate. Announced in the national news.

                  Named Blessed and eternal glory worthy of the memory of Sovereign Emperor Peter the Great and blessed and everlasting memory of Empress Anna Ioannovna, 1716 February 8, 1718 February 17, 1721 February 10, 1722, written by His Majesty's own hand, on the points reported to the Holy Synod, the same 1722 June 6 and 1737 February 4 numbers by decrees commanded that every title and rank of male and female people from seven to the very old years annually in Holy Lent with their spiritual fathers and communion of the Holy Mysteries, both hardy in their homes, and being away from them. Whoever confesses and communes the Holy Mysteries annually will not be, such, whoever of whatever rank and rank may be governors and voivods and other secular commanders, according to the submissions from the spiritual governments about those unconfessed nominal registers, collect fines without omission, namely: commoners and townspeople for the first one for a ruble, for the second for two, for the third for three rubles, and for the villagers for the first for five, for the other for ten, for the third for fifteen kopecks; from those living in Moscow in different parishes with their houses and in the auctions from the quitrent peasants and from mortgages against the merchants by half, and from the poor and poor commoners against the villagers by half. What penalty money, collecting from a note in the receipt books, should be sent from all places for the maintenance of military hospitals to the Military Collegium; and for this purpose, from this collegium over those secular commanders where they have such fees, it is that in those fees they act with extreme diligence, have a strong watch, so that no arrears can follow, and if in it what arrears appear , to exact it on the governors and voivods themselves without indulgence.

                  And from the representation of different provinces sent to the Senate turned out to be. 1e. The commoners who have not been at confession and at the sacrament of the Holy Mysteries are such that due to poverty and poverty itself, there is nothing to pay them the required fines. 2e. Since from non-commissioned officers, corporals and privates, as well as their wives and children, for non-existence in confession and the Holy Communion to exact. 3f. Posad, peasants and people of other ranks appear, in oblivion at confession and at the Holy Communion for thirteen, fourteen and fifteen years, and others all their lives, without any schism, for absence from their homes and simplicity. 4e. Shown not being at confession over three years, still in several years being in the Ober-Officer ranks and their wives and children, about whom there is no exact position about everyone, both in the above-mentioned and subsequent decrees; for the sake of what those provinces demanded, which fines to collect from such, or corporal punishment to mend, from the Governing Senate by decree. And for this reason, the Senate, considering these submissions, and considering the previous decrees, with the prescription of all the details of the circumstances, presented it to Her Imperial Majesty with an all-subject report, at which Her Imperial Majesty's own handwritten signature was ordered by the highest confirmation.

                  1e. Raznochintsy for non-existence in the first, second and third years at confession and at the Holy Communion, for which, according to the aforementioned previous nominal and senate decrees in common with the Synod, there will be nothing to pay monetary fines for complete poverty and poverty; and the police, and in that work, keep for two weeks, and besides that, those who are used in work, as long as they are in that work, give only bread and water for food, and they will not be punished for corporal punishment, for landlords and proprietors , who will not be able to pay for non-knowledge of the fines themselves, they will not be able to collect those fines from their landlords and owners, and in their oblivion - from clerks and elders, and for palace and economic from stewards, treasurers and elders, in whose department those peasants are, for their neglect.

                  2e. From the military land and naval lower ranks of ministers, such as: non-commissioned officers, corporals, privates and their wives and children, for not being in confession and at the Holy Communion, in reasoning the poor salary they receive, to exact a fine against the villagers, for the first year for five, for the second for ten, and for the third for fifteen kopecks.

                  3f. Which of the non-ranking military and other ranks, as well as merchants, commoners and courtyard people, will appear beyond three years of time in oblivion at confession and at Holy Communion, and in schism will not turn out to be such, as if for a crime that requires spiritual, not bodily correction, bodily not to punish anyone, but to punish them with public church repentance, prayer and fasting. If someone after that turns out to be in the same ignorance, such will be punished, firstly: for a while, according to consideration, with a prison, feeding them with bread and water during that detention, and then they will perform public church repentance, and the indicated by the power of the spiritual Of the Regulations in the Orthodoxy of the Oath.

                  4e. From those in the senior officer ranks and their wives and children who have not been to confession and Holy Communion for more than three years, to exact a fine against the fact that for the third nonexistence in confession and the Holy Communion a year is required, three times, that is, nine rubles each. multiplying by the same triple increase, if someone will continue to confess and the Holy Mysteries will not partake.

                  5e. And how the submissions above from the provinces about the unconfessed entered the Senate to the state of Her most merciful Imperial Majesty of the last September 1762, 22 days of the decree, then the above-written work, church repentance and prison punishments for those who, in the aforementioned non-confessions, before the compilation of this decree, appeared, not to fix, but to act according to this with those who, from the state of this all-merciful decree, were not corrected in such corrections, and will continue to be, monetary fines for non-confession, from whom what is due, and according to the state of that decree was not recovered, according to the content of October 1762 23 days of the decree, to collect only the third part; in other matters, in everything in the collection for non-confession of fines, to act according to the previous nominal and senate decrees.
                  And about this highest Her Imperial Majesty's legalization, for public information and proper execution, in the whole state by this Her Imperial Majesty's decree is published.

                  Genuine for signing the Governing Senate on September 30th, 1765.

                  Printed in St. Petersburg at the Senate. November 4 days 1765.
                2. +4
                  26 October 2021 12: 34
                  “For“ non-existence in a confession ”, for the first time, charge the ruble for the first time for the non-residents and townspeople, 2 rubles for the second time, 3 rubles for the third time .; from peasants - 5, 10 and 15 kopecks, respectively. ”
                  “For concealment of the“ non-marketers ”of the priest, punish 5 rubles for the first case, then 10 and 15, and for the fourth time - deprivation of authority and sent to hard labor”
                  Article 182. Blasphemy in the Church - exile and hard labor up to 20 years, corporal punishment, stigma; in another public place - exile and hard labor up to 8 years, corporal punishment, stigma.
                  Article 183. Non-public blasphemy - exile to Siberia and corporal punishment.
                  Article 186. Blasphemy, vilification, censure, criticism of Christianity without intent - imprisonment in a house of up to 2 years, imprisonment up to 2 years.
                  Article 187. Printed and written criticism of Christianity - reference to Siberia, corporal punishment.
                  Article 188. Mockery of Christianity, intentionally - the conclusion of the year, unintentionally - up to 3 months.
                  Article 189. Production, distribution of articles of faith in obscene form - intent - punishment in accordance with Art. 183; without intent - imprisonment up to 6 months or arrest up to 3 weeks.
                  Article 190. Distraction from the faith: non-violent - exile up to 10 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization; violent - reference up to 15 years, corporal punishment, stigmatization.
                  Article 191. Departure from faith - deprivation of rights for the time of deviation from faith.
                  Article 192. If one of the parents of a non-Christian faith brings up children not in the Orthodox faith - divorce, exile to Siberia.
                  Article 195. Seduction from Orthodoxy to another religion - exile, corporal punishment, correctional labor up to 2 years. Under forced coercion - exile to Siberia, corporal punishment.
                  Article 196. Apostasy - a ban on contact with children, until returning to faith.
                  Article 197. Non-Orthodox preaching - imprisonment in a restraining house for up to 2 years. For repeated violation - imprisonment up to 6 years. For the third time - exile, imprisonment for up to 2 years, corporal punishment, correctional labor for up to 4 years. Seduced by sermons - they are confined in a restraining house for up to a year.
                  Article 198. Evasion of baptism and raising children in the Orthodox faith - imprisonment up to 2 years.
                  Article 220. Not bringing children to church is a spiritual and civic suggestion.
                  Article 206. Schismatism - exile.
                  Article 207. Sectarianism - exile.
                  Article 210. Forcible dissemination of heresy and schism - hard labor up to 15 years, corporal punishment, stigma.
                  Article 223. Insult to holy places - hard labor up to 15 years or life, corporal punishment, stigma.
                  Article 226. Disrespect for a shrine - imprisonment in a restraining house for up to 3 years or imprisonment for up to a year.
                  Article 227. Insulting a clergyman - imprisonment in a restraining house for up to a year or imprisonment for up to 6 months.
                  Article 228. Unintentional disrespect for a shrine and insulting a clergyman - arrest up to 3 months.
                  Article 229. Insult of an Orthodox clergyman by a Gentile - imprisonment for up to a year, repeatedly - up to 2 years.
                  1. -6
                    26 October 2021 14: 07
                    1. So read these laws carefully, and do not throw propaganda materials like this:
                    priests extorted the last money from the peasants for confession, threatening with prison

                    I never thought that Anna Ioannovna was a priest. They opened America straight.

                    2. The way the state conducted church policy, starting with Peter, is an example of stupidity. I already wrote to you about this, albeit in a different formulation. But, if it didn’t come the first time, I repeat. Suddenly you will calm down hormones and turn on the logic. Hope is weak, but there is.

                    3. And what happened to the priests who did not agree with this policy, read the same Leskov in "Soborians". The work, although artistic, is based on real facts that the author observed in his life in hundreds.

                    4. So, I repeat, nonsense about "extortion priests" is nonsense. From the same opera as Lenin - the German Spy. On this topic people adore kamlata people of a way of thinking similar to you, only from the opposite, liberal camp.

                    PS Views are different, but you have the same way of thinking: pull everything from Wikipedia, mix it all in the head blender - and on the fan. Here are the joys ...
                    1. +4
                      26 October 2021 23: 17
                      Okay, I'll put it on the shelves: taking advantage of the fact that there is a serious punishment for non-existence in confession, the priests extorted money from the peasants for passing confession. Is it so affordable? More details here: http://ecsocman.hse.ru/data/2012/03/02/1269107142/Andreeva.pdf
                      Quotes:
                      1. "Recently, the relations of the clergyman with the peasants have become much aggravated on the basis of high extortions during the performance of various kinds of services and sacraments; for example, there were cases when, for an underpayment of several kopecks, the deceased remained unburied for about a day after he was transferred to the church. But what embittered the peasants most of all was the rate established by the current fast for confession at 12 kopecks per soul, there were cases when a peasant who did not pay 3 - 4 kopecks was not allowed to confess and was immediately sent back by the priest in front of others. "
                      © From the report of the Skopinsky police chief of the Ryazan province for 1907

                      2. "The priests only live by extortion, they take ... eggs, wool and strive to go around with prayers more often, and money: died - money, born - money, you take not how much you give, but as much as he pleases. will not wait until a good year, but give him the last, and at the very 36 dessiatines (along with the parable) land "
                      © Agrarian movement, 1909
                      1. -7
                        27 October 2021 08: 30
                        pull everything from Wikipedia, mix it all in the head blender - and on the fan. Here are the joys ...

                        These words of mine were directly confirmed. What is pulled not from Wikipedia, but from other sources, changes little. This is not a stacking process, but a continuation of the process described above.

                        Everything was much more complicated there. There were also such priests, about whom the agrarian movement and the Skopinsky police chief write, and there were those who created and promoted sobriety societies and did many other useful things. As in the Communist Party - there were patriots who plowed all their lives for the country, and there were careerists who eventually destroyed the USSR. So, apparently, it will be more accessible.

                        It is necessary to dig deep into the question in order to form a holistic picture. In order not to look as ignorant as you are now. But you won't do anything anyway. Feeling like an expert is more important, so it's no use throwing beads ... However, if I'm wrong about that, let me know. I will suggest the necessary literature.
                      2. +3
                        27 October 2021 12: 55
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        What is pulled not from Wikipedia, but from other sources, changes little.
                        The drain is counted.
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        There were also such priests, about whom the agrarian movement and the Skopinsky police chief write, and there were those who created and promoted sobriety societies and did many other useful things.
                        The useful ones survived. Do you still remember how the discussion started?
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        In order not to look as ignorant as you are now.
                        Well, who would be talking!
                      3. -4
                        27 October 2021 14: 15
                        1.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Well, who would be talking!

                        Says a person who understands the issue and has an idea of ​​the complexities of social and church life at the beginning of the XNUMXth century. A religious scholar by education.

                        2.
                        What is pulled not from Wikipedia, but from other sources, changes little.
                        Drain counted

                        The assertion that pulling quotes from a pine forest on a pine tree is not an argument in a dispute on a complex topic, do you consider it a drain? Originally, especially if you consider that I was not talking about the fact that these quotes cannot be trusted, but about the fact that they cover the issue in a very one-sided way. After all, you brought them in support of the stupidity that blurted out, sorry, wrote above. Our discussion began with her. So I parry:
                        Do you still remember how the discussion started?
                        ... Imagine.

                        3.
                        The useful ones survived.
                        Apparently, because you personally participated in the selection? The Bolsheviks fired and imprisoned everyone in a row, considering them a priori class enemies. And if we are talking about spontaneous reprisals, then does the crowd ever understand who is useful and who is not?

                        By the way, many of those who were not averse to cash in on people were left in the ranks, persuading them to cooperate. Among the renovationists there were such a dime a dozen. And in the OGPU / NKVD Church itself there were similar creatures, albeit to a lesser extent. Since when it is most important for a person to earn money, it is scary to be in a structure, one membership in which threatens with camps.

                        So before rushing with words, you need to slightly (and even much more than "slightly") tighten the materiel. Or instead of "reasoning" on similar topics, play chess. Everything is simple there: here are white, here are black, and all fields are square. Although no, you need to think a lot. And "Wikipedia" and "Yandex Zen", alas, will not help.
                      4. +1
                        27 October 2021 15: 40
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        A religious scholar by education.
                        That is, a person is deliberately biased.
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        The Bolsheviks fired and imprisoned everyone in a row, considering them a priori class enemies.
                        Did you count? It was the priests who declared themselves enemies when they realized that "separation from the state" meant that the authorities would not feed them. Well, they did not expect that in response to them they would take up with revolutionary decisiveness, and would not begin to negotiate.
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        Does the crowd ever know who is useful and who is not?
                        Not a crowd, but fellow villagers. And yes, we did.
                      5. -2
                        27 October 2021 16: 50
                        That is, a person is deliberately biased.

                        No, just a specialist who understands the issue. And what about partiality - a militant atheist, apparently, is a priori impartial? Oh well...

                        It was the priests who declared themselves enemies when they realized that "separation from the state" meant that the authorities would not feed them.

                        Well, read at least the statements of the 1917 Council or the address of Patriarch Tikhon, before continuing to talk nonsense. Although nonsense is easy, it can be carried away a lot (judging by your statements).

                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        Does the crowd ever know who is useful and who is not?
                        Not a crowd, but fellow villagers. And yes, we did.

                        By the way, if we talk about fellow villagers, and not about the crowds of pogromists, who in the overwhelming majority of cases were involved in extrajudicial reprisals, the former very often defended both churches and clergy. Although there was another, where the priests really lost their shores.

                        An example of protection is Peter, 1918. The authorities came to open the relics at the Alexander Nevsky Lavra, people rose to their defense. In response, the Bolsheviks used weapons quite in the style of Bloody Sunday. So it was in Kharkov, and in Tula, and in Voronezh, and many other places.

                        PS Learn materiel before speaking. Otherwise, it turns out that it turns out (see the second paragraph). Although, judging by your writing, reading is unlikely to help you. I would be glad to be wrong.
                      6. +2
                        27 October 2021 17: 19
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        And what about partiality - a militant atheist, apparently, is a priori impartial?
                        Glad you understand that.
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        Well, read at least the statements of the 1917 Council or the address of Patriarch Tikhon, before continuing to talk nonsense.

                        On December 15, 1917, the Council adopted the document "On the Legal Status of the Russian Orthodox Church." He went against the principles of Soviet power. In particular, the Orthodox Church was declared the leader in the state, only Orthodox Christians could be the head of state and the minister of education, it was recognized that the teaching of the Law of God in schools for children of Orthodox parents was compulsory, etc. On January 19, 1918, Patriarch Tikhon anathematized Soviet power.
                        And what is my nonsense?
                      7. -3
                        27 October 2021 17: 32
                        The first attempt to make a joke about your own impartiality could be mistaken for wit, if you were not whipped buckets of partiality. Just re-read what you wrote. Although what I'm talking about, in your case, the principle of "shallow, emelya, your week" is clearly valid.

                        And what is my nonsense?

                        It was the priests who declared themselves enemies when they realized that "separation from the state" meant that the authorities would not feed them. Well, they did not expect that in response to them they would take up with revolutionary decisiveness, and would not begin to negotiate.

                        No, this is justice. Did you think that when the priests extorted the last money from the peasants for confession, threatening with prison (such were the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia for Orthodox Christians) it could remain unavenged? Or when the officers were shooting the revolutionary sailors, they hoped that there would be no return?

                        However, I have already pointed out the stupidity of these statements, but, apparently, it’s a bit slow to reach you. Well, that was to be expected. I explain on the fingers: these descriptions of the situation, brought to the primitive. Determined, apparently, by banal incompetence. Well, not you - the first, not you - the last. On "VO" your "colleagues" even publish, not only comment.
                      8. +2
                        27 October 2021 17: 38
                        That is, there are no well-reasoned objections?
                      9. -3
                        27 October 2021 17: 48
                        I gave you counterarguments. With the protection of temples, for example.
                      10. 0
                        27 October 2021 17: 54
                        These are not arguments, these are biased examples. It would be quite possible to pick up examples that are the opposite of these, but this will give nothing.
                      11. -3
                        27 October 2021 18: 06
                        YOU accuse of tendentiousness ??? Well, they made fun of it, you won’t say anything. And about the fact that the examples in your case will not give anything, I agree. Neither examples, nor arguments, nor familiarity with the sources will give you anything. As someone who admires the new gate ...
                      12. +2
                        27 October 2021 18: 09
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        As someone who admires the new gate ...
                        The transition to personalities. The drain is counted.
                      13. 0
                        27 October 2021 18: 21
                        1.
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Drain counted

                        No way, the record is stuck laughing ? I sympathize.

                        2. And as for the transition to personalities, it was not. You behave in exactly the way I hinted at. The position in which everything you said is considered weighty arguments, and all the arguments of the opponent - "tendentiously selected examples", should be characterized in some other way? You can, of course, put it differently, only the essence will remain the same. Will the turnover suit you about the dew of God?
                      14. +3
                        27 October 2021 18: 25
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        And as for the transition to personalities, it was not.
                        Well, yes, to call it a ram is not a transition to personalities. Yeah.
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        Consider everything you said as arguments, and all the arguments against - "tendentiously cited examples", can you somehow characterize it differently?
                        So there was no reason. There was an example about the fact that they tried to defend the temples. Do you doubt that there are examples of how temples were not defended, but directly demolished? If I give them, then what will it prove, besides the fact that these facts were?
                      15. -2
                        27 October 2021 18: 30
                        I didn't call you that. I hinted that you are behaving in this way. Do you feel the difference? No? Sorry again. However, I'm sorry. I will try to avoid such phrases in the future.

                        There was an example about the fact that they tried to defend the temples. Do you doubt that there are examples of how temples were not defended, but directly demolished?

                        Not an example, but examples. Reread it carefully. Moreover, these are just a few examples out of many.
                        If I give them, then what will it prove, besides the fact that these facts were?

                        So after all, I did not have the goal of proving that everything you said is not true. I have written several times that you should avoid one-sided judgment. One-sidedness and tendentiousness arising from it, by the way. The point was that in addition to what you said, there was something else. In no fewer cases. In my opinion, this is very important to understand.
                      16. -1
                        6 November 2021 22: 38
                        Quote: Artyom Karagodin
                        Apparently, because you personally participated in the selection? The Bolsheviks fired and imprisoned everyone in a row, considering them a priori class enemies. And if we are talking about spontaneous reprisals, then does the crowd ever understand who is useful and who is not?


                        Is it true? Did the Bolsheviks shoot? In 1917 there were 15-17 thousand Bolsheviks in the whole Republic of Ingushetia. The churches were burned and the priests were hanged by those very God-fearing peasants who were simply told that now it is possible. There she is - all the "love" of the people for ZAO "ROC".
              2. -3
                26 October 2021 15: 21
                "Or when the officers were shooting revolutionary sailors, they hoped that there would be no return."
                The Bolsheviks did this with their own people in Kronstadt in 1921 with the very ones who helped the Bolsheviks themselves come to power in St. Petersburg simply declared them counter-revolutionaries and traitors after the sailors saw them at home when they went to the ridge - the surplus went on the Bolsheviks actively and realized that the slogans which the Bolsheviks hung on them with reality in no way fit.
            4. 0
              30 October 2021 09: 44
              And when churches are blown up and drunken revolutionary sailors drown and shoot naval officers, this is the triumph of socialism.

              Drunken officers and nobles have killed peasants for centuries, so no need to tell tearful stories about unfortunate nobles. What they sowed they reaped. And then, the lie that the sailors were drunk during the revolution was invented by the future SS Gruppenführer and his accomplices, as well as about the fact that officers were killed en masse. They killed officers mainly for the cause, those who did not consider sailors, soldiers, workers and peasants to be people
        2. +8
          26 October 2021 12: 18
          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          While transgender admirals are appointed in the United States ...

          Yes, and it's terrible. But ... the fleet is being built, and at what pace they are building, multipurpose nuclear submarines, destroyers, frigates, aircraft carriers (they plan to deliver 30 new ones in 7 years), unmanned ships, landing ships, a new qualitatively better deck aviation and base patrol ... Which of this has our fleet, build y and bring in with us? Moreover, how many allies they have in the world, allies with a high-quality combat Navy ... And Russia, as always, has only two ... although with the second everything is sad as never before.

          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          , in Russia there is a revival of spirituality after the Bolsheviks

          Spirituality is serious.
          I recall the words of Hector from the movie "Troy", about the priest-servant of the gods: "Is there even a small army behind the gods?" ...
          1. -7
            26 October 2021 15: 24
            They build the fleet, but the quality of the personnel of this fleet decreases every year.
            1. +5
              26 October 2021 18: 41
              I don’t want to sound like a pro-American propagandist, because this is not so at all, but, firstly, we know a lot only from the media (and I would trust them in the very last place), and secondly, the experience, as they say, “you can't drink it up” .. And experience is gained by campaigns, drills and firing, but all this is on SHIPS ... opportunities to gain this experience. hi
              1. -3
                26 October 2021 20: 21
                They are already demonstrating their experience, and there it is not the media but the higher ranks of the navy who declare that in Great Britain they are already sailing for cocaine.
            2. +1
              30 October 2021 10: 03
              They build the fleet, but the quality of the personnel of this fleet decreases every year.

              This was especially evident during the campaign of a detachment of ships led by the TAVKR Admiral Kuznetsov to Syria. A non-combat-ready ship, with an untrained crew, and with poorly trained pilots, was sent to combat service, and exposed to everyone's ridicule. Out of less than two dozen aircraft, two were lost. One because of pilot mistakes, the other because of the untrained crew, who changed the landing rope for so long that the plane ran out of fuel and just fell into the water. Our Kuzya is just a mirror of the state of our entire fleet and country.
              And look at how American aircraft carriers go to BS, their teams never chill on the deck, like ours, they plow, and therefore the planes, and there are more than a thousand of them in the American Navy, they fall much less.
              The Chinese brought our Varyag to mind, he spent more time in the sea than Kuzya for the only reason, Kuza and the owner were not lucky.
        3. +1
          26 October 2021 19: 27
          The main military temple has been built, everything is under control! While transgender people are appointed admirals in the United States, there is a post-Bolshevik revival of spirituality in Russia.
          Yes! This is our main! And maybe the main weapon.
      4. -7
        26 October 2021 09: 15
        Well, why ... Why is the author combing this "Honduras" again? Well, take at least the deployment of our submarines with ballistic missiles - I myself heard how in one "hurray-patriotic" program on TV one of the "chiefs" over the submarine spoke with enthusiasm that no deployment was needed, that submarines were fired with missiles at the right points directly from the pier, and nuclear submarines without missiles at this time will hunt for enemy aircraft carrier groups, while diesel submarines will cover our bases from foreign submarines in the near zone. This is how our military commanders see the use of the submarine fleet.
      5. 0
        26 October 2021 11: 41
        Well, what are you, what are the pros in MO ?! No one was left there.
        "Pros" only write articles!) End)
        1. +12
          26 October 2021 12: 19
          Well then, can you tell us all here a brilliant rationale for the shipbuilding program, which in the hottest period of the first half of this century leaves the Russian Federation with 9 + 2 multipurpose submarines?

          It's so easy to prove that going to war against half the west with 11 PLA is much better than with 16 and certainly better than 21.

          And then with lips, then on the Sea, anyone can, and you essentially object.
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 19: 44
            Essentially already Respect. Klimov objected in an article about suicide bombers on a modernized halibut. We will repair, modernize, As we can, the "suicide bombers" look like them for 10 - 15 years and we will write off the entire zoo, and then the grass will not grow. And against 50+ Virginias, which is 11, which is 21 is still not enough. Dear Ash trees, at least have a chance. And so yes, the situation is dire. You can't argue with that. When the Bulava didn't fly it was even worse.
            1. +1
              27 October 2021 21: 26
              Tom Halibut doesn't really need much to be capable of enough combat again. It's just not done
          2. +1
            5 November 2021 03: 05
            The answer is that it is quite simple. The fact is that your entire series of articles is a fascinating synopsis of a sci-fi apocalyptic series, and has nothing to do with reality.
            To begin with, the political tasks that you set for the United States and NATO are not being solved in the proposed way. And most likely they are well aware of this, otherwise this scenario would have been realized a long time ago.
            An unexpected massive nuclear strike on targets of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces (quite feasible under certain conditions) will by no means be disarming. Or let's just say it will be disarming for both sides of the conflict.
            That is, in order to destroy up to 90% of Russia's strategic nuclear weapons, NATO will have to spend a similar amount of its own nuclear weapons in general.
            And what is the result of such a "debut"?
            - Losses of the population and general-purpose infrastructure in Russia will not exceed 30% (according to your forecast, in reality, most likely less) - The country's mobilization potential remains.
            - The forces and assets of the Ground Forces, air defense of all levels, tactical aviation are preserved. The ability to conduct large-scale conventional combat operations remains.
            - Military control over the country has not been achieved.
            - A retaliatory nuclear strike, albeit a very weakened one, is inflicted not on the territory of the United States, but on military targets of NATO (or their allies like Ukraine) in the most threatened direction - in Europe (there is no point in hitting empty missile silos and equally empty and useless warships, but it makes sense for the deployed groupings of troops preparing for the invasion of the European TVD).

            Thus, playing for NATO, you find yourself without nuclear weapons (and with depleted stocks of high-precision weapons) with a fairly weak deployed grouping of troops in the main direction, facing an enemy generally comparable in strength and at the moment clearly preempting you in deployment.
            Great move.
            And this is despite the fact that on the map we suddenly find China. Which in full volume retains its nuclear potential and armed forces.
            On the whole, for NATO, the scenario you described is a good way to commit suicide.
            What is the role of the Navy in all this? Vanishingly small, you don't have to think about it
      6. 0
        20 December 2021 21: 42
        It’s not in vogue now. Successful managers are in vogue, no hu .., excuse the shit, who do not understand the subject of leadership and are not responsible for the results. The successful former defense minister is a prime example of this.
    2. +16
      26 October 2021 06: 56
      Yes, in everything he is right. There seems to be a fleet, but what joyful reports that a new boat has appeared, with aviation in general it's a matter of seams. For many years now, they say that this is how the Su-57 will be trampled into the Air Force, but so far only one poper. Aircraft AWACS A-100 have been promising for many years, but everything is under development. But where not stick one oil and gas pipe sticking out.
      1. +14
        26 October 2021 09: 32
        Well, the article is a specialized naval one, so I will correct your argument - do not care about the Air Force with their SU-57 and A-100 - what to oppose, for example, Japan with their 100 PLO aircraft. There are at least plans for the Su-57 and A-100, but there is nothing for the basic patrolmen and they will definitely die out by the 30s.
        1. +10
          26 October 2021 09: 39
          Unfortunately, Japan is superior to our Pacific Fleet in all respects.
          1. -12
            26 October 2021 15: 34
            Only this fleet does not have such koi missiles in our fleet and our air force.
            1. +4
              26 October 2021 15: 50
              Which ones? With nuclear warheads? And what will we respond to every attack with a nuclear war?
              What to do if the Japanese occupy the Habomai Islands without prior arrangement, there is no population there, no troops. The Japanese came and occupied the islands. Actually, they are already doing this, fishing in our waters. To answer with rockets. A hundred times haha. Border boats are in sufficient abundance and there are none. And those that are still from the USSR remained, they are breathing on fire.
              The situation is the same as in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, like ours, but there is nothing to protect.
              1. -2
                26 October 2021 20: 27
                They do not have long-range air and surface and ground-based anti-ship missiles X 32 Onyx Caliber next year, Zircon will be added to them - the most massive thing in the Japanese fleet is the American Harpoon anti-ship missile system and another rocket of its own design, but they have a small range of 300 - 400 kilometers. "Answer rockets. A hundred times haha." - And the border guards do not have unmanned aerial vehicles and helicopters as well as reconnaissance planes - all our border guards are blind and stupid.
                1. -4
                  27 October 2021 02: 32
                  How old are you boy, if you believe in this crap
                2. 0
                  30 October 2021 10: 17
                  They do not have long-range air and surface and ground-based anti-ship missiles X 32 Onyx Caliber next year, Zircon will be added to them - the most massive thing in the Japanese fleet is the American Harpoon anti-ship missile system and another rocket of its own design, but they have a small range of 300 - 400 kilometers

                  The Japanese have 8 analogues of Arlie Burke, with almost a hundred cells on each, in which, lo and behold, a Tomahawk is placed. And they also have 29 destroyers and also with many cells for the Tomahawk.
                  And they also have the means to ensure the detection of targets and the issuance of control commands for them, but we do not have them at the Pacific Fleet.
                  It is not known whether they actually have Tomahawks or not yet, but they have carriers that can provide a salvo of 500 missiles, and today all carriers of the Pacific Fleet will not be able to launch even 50 missiles. And the worst thing is that we have nothing to repel their volley, from the word at all, but they have something to repel and counterattack.
          2. -1
            26 October 2021 19: 50
            Quote: YOUR
            Unfortunately, Japan is superior to our Pacific Fleet in all respects.

            Well, yes, well, yes ... Especially for PLA and RPK SN ... and other carriers of nuclear weapons ...
            But in terms of general-purpose forces, alas, there is essentially nothing to object to.
        2. -4
          26 October 2021 15: 32
          "What to oppose, for example, Japan with their 100 PLO aircraft?" the Japanese do not have a separate unit for the United States.
    3. 0
      26 October 2021 09: 28
      Yes, they seem to understand in theory and are trying to do something at least in their thoughts - there were active reports a few years ago about small Husky submarines, cheaper and therefore massive than Ash. And then once and everything was quiet. Isn't the industry in a position to deal with them until the Ash series is finished?
      1. +6
        26 October 2021 10: 00
        Husky, it was research work on the future submarine to replace Ash, it was completed, as a result of its results, project 545 Laika was launched, but this is a complete profanation in reality. A deliberately dead project.
        1. +2
          26 October 2021 13: 42
          Listen, I'm certainly not a specialist in the history of the fleet, but I believed that these Husky (Laiki) are not in exchange, but in addition. Just copying the structure of the USSR fleet when there were heavy multipurpose nuclear submarines destroying KUG, AUG of the Anteev type, and smaller torpedo hunters helping them to accomplish this, or working together with strategists. After all, even now it is naive to believe that one or two Ashes are able to independently enter the AUG and inflict critical damage. We are not Americans and we are not able to build 50 Ash trees, and probably we cannot do without a series of small torpedo boats underwater.
          1. +7
            26 October 2021 13: 46
            Laika is not a torpedo, Zircon is declared there, but he will not fly with a TA (unless from 65 cm, but they will no longer be made, since torpedoes are not produced).
            It's just a shortened Ash tree with new electronics.
            Same
    4. -5
      26 October 2021 15: 11
      Something the author forgot about the submarines of the d project and the 677th they are also being built for the Pacific Fleet and for the Northern Fleet - and they will perfectly cope to cover SSBNs in their waters. And that our submarines in 2030 will be up to 35 years old - out of this period, some 15 years stood at the berth, thereby not spending their resources and their modernization is technically feasible for the American Los Angeles now there are 28 of them left since the beginning of the 80s, and the United States is still floating and vryatli half of this number until 2030 will not write off the Ohio nuclear submarines since 1976, the last one was built in September 1997 - and until 2030 they will not write off the same submarines - since there is nothing to change with which of our boats of production of the mid-80s and 2000s to write off by 2030 they can be upgraded and they will sail for another 15 years will supply new complexes of GAS torpedoes, missiles, control systems, equipment with new depreciation and a new boat skin.
    5. -3
      26 October 2021 17: 30
      There are always drawbacks. Correct some shortcomings, others will appear - nothing is ideal, you can only strive for the ideal, and this is an endless process. Only stupid people do not understand this.
  2. 0
    26 October 2021 05: 20
    ....................................

    .The homeland was saved, thanks


    I see TRMV (nuclear) in 2025-27 or sooner - because of the US debt and the claims of China.
    start -Iran or Kosovo (EU) or interests in Mexico (someone will climb into the backyard of the United States).
    by 25 g we only have time to rivet AK
    how the IVS was right in subordinating the military to its control (with huge problems and its own mistakes).
    bend your line, Vovka.
    war may not happen - if someone generously buys the debts and establishes his hegemony ... and everyone agrees

    but unlikely --- someone else's soul of darkness, all the more talented financiers (mathematicians-adding machines)
    1. +8
      26 October 2021 05: 26
      World War 2030s.
      - what, it has already been decided?
      1. 0
        26 October 2021 05: 40
        Is it too early to do stocks? And so, hi barrels are being rolled on us from all sides ...
        1. +1
          26 October 2021 06: 06
          Quote: VadimLives
          Is it too early to do stocks? And so, hi barrels are being rolled on us from all sides ...

          Yes, it's too late for me ... 60 already ... only help the children.
          1. +16
            26 October 2021 06: 09
            I'm 50, I'm fighting with the "crown" ... Health to everyone and everything will be fine with us hi
            1. +9
              26 October 2021 06: 20
              Quote: VadimLives
              I'm 50, I'm fighting with the "crown" ... Health to everyone and everything will be fine with us hi

              health to you .... hi
              1. +7
                26 October 2021 06: 23
                I wish everyone health and not get sick .. I think that I was lucky much more than many ... I am at home and here the walls help ... hi
            2. 0
              26 October 2021 10: 45
              Cool this "crown". So I didn't seem to have a corona, but only "flu", "acute respiratory infections" and "ARVI", and passed the analysis for antibodies to covidle and it turned out that they are. And both types. request
              1. +1
                26 October 2021 10: 52
                Well, I have never had colds, and here once and the temperature for several days ... The tests showed the corona ... Now I'm waiting for repeated ones, maybe that's all
              2. -3
                26 October 2021 16: 44
                Quote: Cat Kuzya
                Cool this "crown". So I didn't seem to have a corona, but only "flu", "acute respiratory infections" and "ARVI", and passed the analysis for antibodies to covidle and it turned out that they are. And both types. request

                This is how it used to be called flu, but now it is called the "crown" because it is fashionable. sounds worse and more incomprehensible and you can cut more dough. By the way, my wife and I also just got sick, the flu is flu.
          2. +3
            26 October 2021 10: 32
            is about to die, but this rye ..

            and the grandchildren need to leave a margin of safety for the country and the Army
      2. Aag
        0
        26 October 2021 08: 51
        Quote: Dead Day
        World War 2030s.
        - what, it has already been decided?

        Considering the rate of price growth (for everything!), It is too late for many (based on income) ...
      3. +3
        26 October 2021 15: 43
        They are afraid to attack the DPRK - and then they suddenly dare to attack Russia, knowing that even 10% of Russia's nuclear potential in response will kill them 100%. The war with Russia in 2030, started with the hope of some kind of disarming strike, is a fabulous nonsense.
        1. -4
          26 October 2021 21: 13
          Yes, your brain is clearly strained :).
      4. +1
        26 October 2021 21: 11
        And the meaning is still going to die.
    2. +10
      26 October 2021 08: 12
      The US debt gives itself up. There was already such a situation with a huge debt, and somehow we went through quite calmly. China has not won a single war, so it is a little unreasonable to say that China will start some kind of war. It's easier to fight economies, it's cheaper.
      Is there a world war over Iran? Well this is just ridiculous. Kosovo is just as funny.
      It is my deep conviction that there will be no war for the reasons:
      1. Expensive
      2. Manufacturing cycles are too long
      3. Cheaper to press with proxies and economics
      Media hysteria is just media hysteria.
      1. -7
        26 October 2021 10: 48
        There will not be for a simple reason, a global war contradicts the concept of building a "green" world for the elite. The population is disposed of by other methods (already started).
        1. +3
          26 October 2021 11: 24
          Fierce nonsense about recycling. Does the foil hat put pressure on the brain?
          1. -5
            26 October 2021 11: 42
            Event 201, then the "pandemic" connection is not visible only to the extremely close.
            Further - against the background of "natural population decline", extremely high mortality from covidla, "our" authorities have been reducing the budget for medicine for the third year in a row. At the same time, excessively pumping the PND.
            By chance?
            1. +5
              26 October 2021 12: 22
              Well, if you forgot about the H2009N1 outbreak in 1, then you have a memory like a fish. And it was this scenario that was repeated. And mortality statistics are very similar in any country. Let's say a person has a terminal stage of cancer. Against the background of PCT, his immunity is reduced and now he is charged with a covid and dies. Cause of death? Covid, of course, and this will be reflected in the statistics. But related things will be reflected in other statistics that do not go to the media. And here you have a picture of the world that a lot of people are dying.
              On the subject of ecology: the main suppliers of children with anomalies are large cities with a developed heavy industry. So ecology is an important thing because treatment is then expensive, but prevention (filters and others) is much cheaper for the state. Because the state will put pressure on fines. But not in Russia. We usually have Vasya the locksmith to blame.
              1. -2
                26 October 2021 12: 40
                Quote: FireLake
                Well, if you forgot about the outbreak in 2009 H1N1, then you have a memory like a fish

                I said specifically about event 201. Google to help.
                1. +2
                  26 October 2021 15: 49
                  You seem to have problems with the perception of the text. So in this event, the conditions of the fall were simulated, which are based on the data and conclusions about H1N1. The fact that atk coincided ... well, viruses mutate the devil of demand. And a bunch of fools in a foil hat carried this nonsense to the Internet and then, as they say, water went through the pipes. It is especially pleasant that this was remembered only in 20, when the covid began. But what a clickrate)
                  Have you even watched the movie itself?
                  1. -3
                    26 October 2021 18: 21
                    Quote: FireLake
                    The fact that atk coincided ..

                    Blessed is he who believes. laughing
                    1. +1
                      26 October 2021 18: 37
                      I can say the same about you. Why? Therefore, compiling a mat model on the spread of viruses is a very difficult thing, not for people with one gyrus. That is why the virus is first studied, and this is not one day or even one year.
                      By the way, about faith: what is your evidence?)
                      1. -4
                        26 October 2021 18: 49
                        Quote: FireLake
                        Therefore, compiling a mat model on the spread of viruses is a very difficult thing, not for people with one gyrus.

                        Are you talking about yourself? Then it is understandable why the obvious things do not reach you. laughing
                      2. 0
                        26 October 2021 18: 56
                        Prove their evidence. Otherwise, in a foil hat, it will be obvious that you are from the CIA.
                      3. -3
                        26 October 2021 19: 03
                        Quote: FireLake
                        that you are from the CIA.

                        You guessed it! good I also work part-time for the NSA, MI 6, and the Mossad! wassat
                      4. -1
                        26 October 2021 20: 45
                        Why not? Especially against the background of the fact that there is a utilization of the population.
        2. +2
          26 October 2021 15: 46
          It is not profitable for anyone to dispose of the population - the larger the population, the larger the market, the more profit.
          1. -3
            26 October 2021 18: 24
            Quote: Vadim237
            It is not profitable for anyone to dispose of the population

            And Bill Gates probably doesn't know, right? Like Schwab, Gref, Chubais ...
            That's how much I talk to Vadik, I can't understand everything, if you are an optimistic naive, if you are a professional troll.
            Or do you manage to combine? wink
            1. +1
              26 October 2021 20: 35
              And Bill Gates probably doesn't know, right? Yes, me and all other businessmen do not care to talk about him, he can do whatever he wants - but if you listen to any of his words, they are clearly not all right with their heads.
              Schwab, Gref, Chubais .... And those who are in general - the last two are already a straight road retired.
              I am always an optimist - and I do not want to be like you, a whining depressed person who believes in all sorts of stories.
              1. -1
                27 October 2021 21: 04
                Quote: Vadim237
                I am always an optimist

                "And only a realist said that the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train."
          2. -4
            26 October 2021 18: 38
            It is not profitable for anyone to dispose of the population - the larger the population, the larger the market, the more profit

            We need to think about this, and our counterpart Ingvar72 apparently has problems with this.
            1. -2
              26 October 2021 20: 36
              You better worry about your "booth" - you have the same emptiness there as your friend, so everyones and fill it with various garbage.
              1. +1
                26 October 2021 20: 44
                Only scientific data and not all the stuff from the media, which is stuffed 24/7/365 by the people. Knowledge of the English language, which allows you to read scientific literature in the original, especially helps in this.
                1. 0
                  27 October 2021 21: 05
                  Quote: FireLake
                  Especially helps in this knowledge of the English language, which allows you to read scientific literature in the original.

                  Didn't you know about Google translator?
                  1. +1
                    28 October 2021 00: 47
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Google translator

                    The translation is very "clumsy", especially for technical texts. Often, after such translations, you still have to look into the original. And this despite the fact that I have no knowledge of English at all ...
      2. +2
        26 October 2021 20: 48
        Quote: FireLake
        It is my deep conviction that there will be no war

        Nuuuuu, Wars are also different ... Yankees are fighting more and more by someone else's hands and on foreign territory, and if they themselves get involved, then against the obviously weaker enemy and ... remotely, remotely ... without "wooden macs", if possible. And then they wonder: why no one likes them, except clients ...
        1. -2
          27 October 2021 21: 12
          So they are not a gingerbread that everyone would like. At the same time, everyone wants to trade with them ...
          Why fight on your own territory? Why fight with your own hands if you can hire beggar fools who will die for your interests?
          I am for such a policy. )
          1. +2
            27 October 2021 23: 30
            Quote: FireLake
            I am for such a policy.

            Cynical, but frank ...
            This is the politics of bandits from the high road. All by concepts, as in the zone ... Farmers and sixes. What else can you say here?
            1. 0
              28 October 2021 07: 41
              I don't care what it looks like if it allows the country to develop dynamically. There are no friends in politics, as it were
      3. +1
        26 October 2021 21: 18
        I do not like to prepare for TRMV in 27g-prepare for war in 23g


        I laugh at such predictors.
        as if 5 or 15 nuclear submarines will solve the issue of TRMV-complete nonsense, as one Kremlin long-liver said
        any nuclear submarines - a small part of the costs and revenues in the total mass of $ 100 trillion (or $ 300 trillion?)
      4. -4
        26 October 2021 21: 18
        It is "a little" unreasonable to argue that China is a superpower that cannot start a war.

        Russia has already lost this status. Therefore, the Kremlin will only watch the Russians in the Donbas shelling the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

        Zero himself said that he recognizes the United States as the only superpower. Legs up the hill.
    3. +4
      26 October 2021 20: 36
      Quote: antivirus
      bend your line, Vovka.

      If this is about Putin, then I personally agree ...
      AHA.
  3. +6
    26 October 2021 06: 00
    Guessing 10 years ahead ... och boldly, but somehow not reliable, I guess. There are too many assumptions, variables that no one knows about today.
    1. +10
      26 October 2021 09: 36
      Quite right! Therefore, when the Americans plan to submarine for 10 years in advance, they conclude a contract 10 years before the start of the series. Then, 6 years before, they start purchasing materials and manufacturing parts for long-term production, 2-3 years before they begin to manufacture sections and then at the time of laying the boat, they ALREADY ready by 60-70%, since is built from sections, and they are already ready. And therefore, after 1.5 years, the boat (Virginia, for example) goes to the ZHI. Here are the correct plans for 10 years ahead.
      1. +4
        26 October 2021 09: 54
        Long-term planning, development strategy, for production, it's like manna from heaven ...
        Serious changes in the political situation in the world, for 10, 20 or more years ... this is also doubtful, the enemy will still be the same and he will act the same.
        But this is not all that can affect the future ...
        To say that they do not plan with us, do not try to guess / calculate what will happen and how ... they probably do the same as everyone else. Verbal battles between sofa experts ... this is something abstract, divorced from life, for the most part ... although some assumptions may turn out to be prophetic, this also cannot be ruled out.
        In general, it is impossible to predict everything, but it is also very expensive to plan to the maximum ... not every state can afford it.
        Look for a middle ground, while leaving room for maneuver, for correcting plans, in case of an unforeseen situation.
        Something like this.
        1. +5
          26 October 2021 10: 51
          It seems to me that the main message of this article was: "You must always be ready for war." And not that "the war will begin in the mid-30s" (which was taken as an example).
          1. +2
            26 October 2021 11: 21
            Everything can be ... as we understood, we unsubscribe, we reason.
            But no one has ever fully prepared for war ... it is enough to have a certain, sufficient degree of readiness, which is already good, enough, as a rule.
            1. 0
              26 October 2021 23: 50
              The Americans probably have a supercomputer for this (one and only) purpose (the final disintegration of Russia), which someday will calculate that, for example, with a probability of 80% without a little blood, for your loved ones, you can start. So more than a minimum of readiness is better.
              1. +1
                27 October 2021 08: 01
                So you can't say that our Armed Forces are getting worse prepared ...
                The level of reasonable sufficiency ... what it is, who and how decides this issue. We do not know. This is decided in high spheres.
      2. 0
        26 October 2021 17: 02
        Quote: arkadiyssk
        Therefore, when the Americans plan to submarine for 10 years in advance, they conclude a contract 10 years before the start of the series. Then, 6 years before, they start purchasing materials and manufacturing parts for long-term production, 2-3 years before they begin to manufacture sections and then at the time of laying the boat, they ALREADY ready by 60-70%, since is built from sections, and they are already ready. And therefore, after 1.5 years, the boat (Virginia, for example) goes to the ZHI. Here are the correct plans for 10 years ahead.

        And then it turns out that the only aunt in the States who controlled the quality of steel for the nuclear submarine, waved the certificates "without looking" for decades.
        And it turns out that no one has any idea what to do with this marriage now.? wink
        https://profile.ru/news/abroad/amerikanskie-podlodki-godami-stroili-iz-nekachestvennoj-stali-340633/
        The main supplier of high-strength steel for the US Navy's submarine hulls, Bradken Inc has been supplying low-quality metal to the shipyard for many years, falsifying laboratory research and testing results, Defense News reported. The buyers of the metal were the Electric Boat and Newport News shipyards, which manufacture the hulls of nuclear submarines.
        Helen Thomas, the head of the metallurgical plant laboratory, was charged with fraud. She is said to have fabricated test results for more than 200 shipbuilding steel. Defects related to low quality steel were revealed on some of the boats, however, information about which submarines suffered remains closed.
    2. -2
      26 October 2021 21: 23
      With the coronavirus pandemic, the end of which is not in sight, the world's complex production chains will be severed. The economy is already collapsing like a house of cards.

      Wipe your eyes dear: in China, firms with 5 trillion debts are on the verge of bankruptcy, an energy crisis, supply disruptions.

      2 + 2 add up what will this lead to?
      1. 0
        26 October 2021 21: 39
        Just another crisis, again and again ... it will end too.
        Nothing will fundamentally change in the world.
        And the economy ... after the crisis, ruin, losses, there will be another restart and everything will roll over again.

        Oh yes, the military conflict is not frail! This happened after crises ... but I don't even want to think about it. Everything has become too dangerous.
  4. -2
    26 October 2021 06: 04
    Yes, the state of the submarine is deplorable, but still not full of seams. On Poseidon, I disagree with you, Alexander, at least because the FSA is guaranteed to our submarines have not yet learned to intercept. Regarding Rubin, they had very interesting projects of small-sized nuclear submarines, but it seems that the level of technology available to us does not come out with a stone flower. Our ship repair, unlike shipbuilding, has died completely from the word, and even in Vilyuchinsk (Primorsky) from the once good factory, there are probably only hulls in which they are engaged in various trifles.
    hi
    1. ANB
      +1
      27 October 2021 11: 14
      ... and even in Vilyuchinsk (Primorsky) from the once good factory, there are probably only buildings in which they are engaged in various trifles

      It is also good that no one needs space there, otherwise everything would be rented or the shopping and entertainment center would be opened.
  5. +12
    26 October 2021 06: 11
    There is the movie Breakthrough (1986) with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long. There is a similar situation with home renovation. The deeper they delve into the problems, the higher the final amount of the restoration.
    ==========
    I, by a sinful deed, thought that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief had forgotten the way to the shipyard to the stocks, and his photographs are in an article many years ago. Tell me that it is not, and together we will laugh at the "dull" Alexander Timokhin and his scrupulous analysis ... stop It's good that I'm not the only one who thinks that:
    Quote: Tucan
    The author is right in many ways!

    Quote: Thrifty
    Are there still professionals in the leadership of our Defense Ministry?

    Quote: Thrifty
    Only, the country will have to fight with what is available, you can't get anything else from anywhere!

    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Yes, this happens in all state structures, not only the Ministry of Defense.
    1. +7
      26 October 2021 06: 45
      Quote: ROSS 42
      There is the movie Breakthrough (1986) with Tom Hanks and Shelley Long. There is a similar situation with home renovation. The deeper they delve into the problems, the higher the final amount of the restoration.
      ==========
      I, by a sinful deed, thought that the Supreme Commander-in-Chief had forgotten the way to the shipyard to the stocks, and his photographs are in an article many years ago. Tell me that it is not, and together we will laugh at the "dull" Alexander Timokhin and his scrupulous analysis ... stop It's good that I'm not the only one who thinks that:
      Quote: Tucan
      The author is right in many ways!

      Quote: Thrifty
      Are there still professionals in the leadership of our Defense Ministry?

      Quote: Thrifty
      Only, the country will have to fight with what is available, you can't get anything else from anywhere!

      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Yes, this happens in all state structures, not only the Ministry of Defense.

      It doesn't seem like it is! More people like the Author!
  6. +11
    26 October 2021 06: 30
    And yet the war .. and still in 2030 "and we are not ready" (c) .. The board of general directors of the corporation will "fight" with the head of one of the corporation's warehouses smile
    1. Aag
      +1
      26 October 2021 08: 54
      Quote: parusnik
      And yet the war .. and still in 2030 "and we are not ready" (c) .. The board of general directors of the corporation will "fight" with the head of one of the corporation's warehouses smile

      Deep.... good
    2. 0
      26 October 2021 09: 13
      Quote: parusnik
      And yet the war .. and still in 2030 "and we are not ready" (c) ..

      If only we were ready to get rid of traitors at the beginning of the war, without delay and lawyers ...
  7. -7
    26 October 2021 06: 31
    The article is very interesting and the author, as always, writes very colorful and exciting, but with the fact that the United States in 2030. will deliver a nuclear strike to the Russian Federation, I do not agree due to the following circumstances:
    1) In China and Russia, there are very serious crisis phenomena that will lead to a significant decline of the first and the complete collapse of the second country over the next 10 years. As for Russia, it is clear to all sane citizens of the Russian Federation that the natural loss of one million indigenous people per year, the massive migration of Muslims from Central Asia and the Caucasus to the central regions of the Russian Federation with increasing ethnic tension, economic backwardness, sanctions, destruction of infrastructure and a number of regional conflicts (Syria, Ukraine, future conflicts in the Caucasus, an inevitable clash with Turkey and Japan), Putin's early resignation by 2024 and the resulting conflict of elites will lead the country to an inevitable catastrophe this decade. China already has a critical situation in the economy right now, a huge shortage of natural resources, rolling blackouts, monstrous pollution of the environment (in a number of Chinese cities, including Beijing, on some days it is impossible to go out without a respirator), and a serious conflict between the Chinese elites has also begun + the arms race depletes the economy, and a completely hostile environment (India, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, the United States, etc.) makes it impossible to focus on the peaceful development of the country. The rapid economic development of China and an even sharper collapse of the economy right now have greatly exacerbated social tensions due to inequality in Chinese society (the poverty of tens of millions of people is simply monstrous). Regional tensions in the PRC are growing between prosperous coastal regions (where living standards will now decline) and poor hinterland (where famine may soon begin). Plus, the rebellious Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and Tibet have not gone anywhere. China by 2030-2035 will gradually crumble into autonomous provinces.
    Therefore, it is much easier for the United States to finance the opposition in China and the Russian Federation in order to speed up these processes than to fight on its own. And also pump up money and weapons in India and Ukraine, Poland and a number of other countries so that they start regional conflicts with China and the Russian Federation.
    2) The military scenario described by the author is not sufficiently developed. Thus, the necessary in this case nuclear strikes on St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad, the Far East, Crimea, Novosibirsk (RS-24 Yars), Vilyuchinsk are not shown, without which it is simply impossible to do in such a case, otherwise a counter nuclear strike is guaranteed. By the way, if you strike right now, then you still need to not forget about Sochi, since Putin is almost always there. It is clear that a nuclear strike on Kaliningrad, St. Petersburg and the Crimea will inevitably affect virtually all of Eastern Europe, the Scandinavian countries and Germany. The Baltic and Black Seas will become radioactive seas for at least a century. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of Europe to thousands of deaths from radioactive contamination of its citizens and the contamination of a significant area of ​​these countries with radiation. In addition, the risk of a retaliatory strike by the Russian Federation even in this case is possible, but for some reason the author believes that the death of even 20 million Americans is acceptable for the US elites. At the same time, the author forgets about the significant ethnic tension between Latinos, blacks and white Americans. It seems that with a nuclear strike on the United States, part of the territory of this country will be covered by riots of blacks and Latinos. In addition, the author does not take into account the environmental consequences of massive nuclear strikes against Russia and the United States at all, and they can lead to critical consequences throughout the world …….
    1. +12
      26 October 2021 06: 47
      Before that, 45 years old, the United States did not dare to start a nuclear war, but they gathered here and by all means by 2030 smile
    2. +8
      26 October 2021 07: 04
      very funny, somewhat reminiscent of Girkin's forecasts.

      "There are very serious crisis phenomena in China and Russia." And in other parts of the world there are no crisis phenomena, everyone is blooming and smelling.

      "inevitable clash with Turkey and Japan." Exactly, that is why Turkey is building Russian nuclear power plants, so that it would then insidiously attack.

      "Putin's early resignation by 2024 and the resulting conflict of elites." And if he does not leave, and if he is elected again? In the US, after all, there is no conflict of elites, pgavda-pgavda.
      1. +7
        26 October 2021 21: 18
        Quote: CruorVult
        Girkin's predictions are somewhat reminiscent.

        It would be better if Mr. Lair did not climb out of his lair at all with his post. am
        This post is thoroughly anti-Russian, saturated with hidden hatred of our country, full of hysteria, absolutely not based on anything.
        I rolled "-" into it with great pleasure.
        AHA.
        1. -5
          27 October 2021 20: 27
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Quote: CruorVult
          Girkin's predictions are somewhat reminiscent.

          It would be better if Mr. Lair did not climb out of his lair at all with his post. am
          This post is thoroughly anti-Russian, saturated with hidden hatred of our country, full of hysteria, absolutely not based on anything.
          I rolled "-" into it with great pleasure.
          AHA.

          You are writing this to a person who has been faithfully serving Russia for 20 years. And the fact that the current Russian Federation is waiting for a very early collapse is clear to all sane people.
          1. +3
            27 October 2021 23: 26
            Quote: Lair
            the current Russian Federation is waiting for a very early collapse, it is clear to all sane people.

            DO NOT WAIT !!! stop
    3. +3
      26 October 2021 07: 07
      much is logical, but there is a question .. Why does the United States need the collapse of the Russian Federation? what are the benefits they get from this? I only see cons ..
      1. -3
        26 October 2021 09: 23
        Now we are building a new, wonderful, green world based on digital technologies for 1 billion people. The rest are superfluous. The disposal of the surplus population has already begun. Moreover, this process is largely uncontrollable and chaotic, ... in fact, everything is going on like in rats - the number of which has exceeded the limits of the population and the processes - the mechanisms of its (population) regulation - reduction have been activated. Yes
      2. -1
        26 October 2021 09: 34
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        what are the benefits they get from this?

        They will put Khodorkovsky on the throne, as Prime Minister Gusinsky, and everything will be in openwork ... for the Americans!
        1. -9
          26 October 2021 09: 45
          "... for the Americans" ... Are you afraid that you will be laid off? And will you have to master construction specialties, rotational work, or "go into business"? wink
          1. +3
            26 October 2021 12: 22
            Quote: Kuzya the Cat
            Afraid that you will be laid off?

            I'm not at all afraid, as long as my hands and feet eat a piece of bread, I will always earn!
            Quote: Kuzya the Cat
            you will have to master construction specialties

            I have already mastered them and business is not a novelty for me, and I have passed the rotational method ... more options? Catering, timber processing and cargo transportation are not offered!
          2. +6
            26 October 2021 12: 56
            Quote: Cat Kuzya
            "... for the Americans" ... Are you afraid that you will be laid off? And will you have to master construction specialties, rotational work, or "go into business"? wink

            We are afraid that they will return again holy nineties:
        2. -1
          26 October 2021 12: 31
          Quote: Serg65
          They will put Khodorkovsky on the throne, as Prime Minister Gusinsky, and everything will be in openwork ... for the Americans!

          Even for this, collapse is not beneficial, but 1 throne is beneficial ..
          1. +6
            26 October 2021 12: 45
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            Even for this - the collapse is not profitable

            In the early 90s, the Americans thought the same way, but by the middle of those years they had already realized that it was not enough to change the power in Russia, it was still necessary to divide them into specific principalities that hate each other! Ingushetia, Dagestan, Tatarstan, Tuva, the Ural Republic, the Far Eastern Republic, the Sakha Republic .... Russia was on the verge of collapse!
            1. +1
              26 October 2021 12: 52
              I strongly suspect that they wanted a change of power in the USSR, but exactly the collapse is not very ... the whole is easier to control than 100 "principalities" simply based on science - management theory ...
              in my personal opinion, the ambitions of EBN, AHL and Kravchuk are the first ones to blame for the collapse .. and before them Yanaev (whose role everyone forgets) and MSG prepared the ground ..
              1. +2
                26 October 2021 13: 01
                Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                the whole is easier to control than 100 "principalities" simply based on science - the theory of government ...

                The theory stumbled over the irrationality of Russia, the late Yeltsin no longer yelled ... grab as much as you want!
                Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                in my personal opinion, the ambitions of EBN, AHL and Kravchuk are the first ones to blame for the collapse .. and before them Yanaev (whose role everyone forgets) and MSG prepared the ground ..

                According to my observations, Kryuchkov played a big role .... Vilnius, Tbilisi, Baku, Sumgait, Alma Ata, Fergana, Osh .. this blood is completely on him!
                1. 0
                  26 October 2021 14: 04
                  Quote: Serg65
                  a big role was played by Kryuchkov .... Vilnius, Tbilisi, Baku, Sumgait, Alma Ata, Fergana, Osh .. this blood is completely on him!

                  Yes, and so is he. You are right, Sergei! I forgot something about him ..
      3. +8
        26 October 2021 10: 16
        what are the benefits they get from this?

        None. Exactly what. Moreover, the United States will not get any advantages from the start of a nuclear war.
        Most likely "Cold War 2.0" is coming, only the cause of the conflict will now be "whose scheme for arranging the globalized market economy will be implemented, and, most importantly, what" centers of power and decision-making will be in it. "The participants in this conflict will be the United States and China ( exactly), and the European Union (possibly).
        PS: And yes, now I will collect a bunch of cons, but you need to be realistic, a country whose economy is 3,15 percent of the world gross domestic product (if it is in PPP, at par - and even less) an independent "center of power" in " Cold War 2.0 "alas, but not capable of.
        1. -6
          26 October 2021 15: 54
          It may be a revelation for you, but Russia is one of 16 countries that form 60% of world GDP per year - the remaining 181 countries form 40%.
          1. +2
            26 October 2021 17: 09
            It may be a revelation for you, but Russia is included in 16 countries that form 60% of world GDP per year

            It won't be a revelation. Russia ranks sixth among the countries of the world in terms of gross domestic product, calculated on the basis of PPP. Alas, this is still 3,15 percent of the world's gross domestic product. If we count Russia together with the member countries of the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU), then in the end we will still get 3,7-3,8 percent of the world gross domestic product. This is ... alas, too little.
            For comparison, the countries of the North American Free Trade Area (NAFTA - USA, Canada, Mexico) in total "give out" 19,08 percent of the world gross domestic product, China - 18,33 percent, the countries of the European Union - about 15 percent. All three of these "potential centers of power" together account for 52,4 percent of the world's gross domestic product.
            1. 0
              26 October 2021 20: 51
              Market economy - how many people order from us, they buy from us per year inside the country and in the world, and we produce and sell so many things - you cannot jump over the heads of customers and you will get losses. And yes, it is not correct to measure in dollars, since exchange rates are different everywhere in one country, as an example, a cuff will cost one dollar, and in Russia with this money it will be possible to buy three such cuffs in ruble equivalent at the dollar exchange rate.
    4. 0
      26 October 2021 22: 24
      I do not agree with everything, but conceptually thoughts are reasonable
  8. +2
    26 October 2021 06: 52
    I read it. Infused. Everything is lost. Now breakfast, coffee and I will go to surrender. Until it's not too late. Who is with me?
    1. +3
      26 October 2021 07: 21
      Sergo1914 -you are there, out of excess of feelings, do not capture the entire ush prisoner lol , and then suddenly they will decide that it is better under Russia than to learn Chinese, and all their lives to walk squinting like the Chinese lol
    2. +5
      26 October 2021 07: 37
      Quote: sergo1914
      I read it. Infused. Everything is lost. Now breakfast, coffee and I will go to surrender. Until it's not too late. Who is with me?

      You may be taken prisoner, but then sent to the gas van and the crematorium.
      1. -3
        26 October 2021 07: 57
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        Quote: sergo1914
        I read it. Infused. Everything is lost. Now breakfast, coffee and I will go to surrender. Until it's not too late. Who is with me?

        You may be taken prisoner, but then sent to the gas van and the crematorium.


        Not. Appointed burgomaster.
        1. +3
          26 October 2021 09: 28
          Quote: sergo1914
          Appointed burgomaster

          This seat is already taken! There are a lot of people willing!
    3. +4
      26 October 2021 09: 27
      Quote: sergo1914
      Who is with me?

      No, I'm in the woods ... partisan! That's more interesting! laughing
      1. +3
        26 October 2021 09: 42
        Quote: Serg65
        No, I'm in the woods ... partisan! That's more interesting

        More interesting, of course. On February 14, 1943, the 825th Volga-Tatar battalion of the Idel-Ural legion went to the front to fight the partisans. The legionnaires were transferred to Vitebsk, and then to the village of Gralevo. Already on February 22, just a week after being sent to the front, almost in full force the battalion went over to the side of the Belarusian partisans. Approximately 500-600 legionnaires joined various partisan detachments. After the disappearance of the 825th battalion, the command decided not to send the 1943th battalion formed in January 826 to the front, but transferred it to carry out security service in the Netherlands - Hitler's generals trusted the Tatar legionaries less and less.
      2. +2
        26 October 2021 16: 01
        The trick is that there will be no partisan "movement".
        It is necessary to prepare for it in advance and have sponsors on the "mainland". In conditions of hunger, destruction of infrastructure and inevitable epidemics, there will be a war of individuals / families for survival with a lethal outcome. Excesses in the style of the "red ghost" will undoubtedly be, but will not change anything.
        1. +1
          27 October 2021 07: 55
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          there will be a war of individuals / families for survival with a lethal outcome

          what Yes, wolves gather in packs when their survival is threatened!
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          Excesses in the style of the "red ghost" will undoubtedly be,

          Is the partisan movement only red?
          1. -1
            27 October 2021 08: 15
            Wolf pack = large family of alpha female. Do you mean the tribal relations of primitive people? This will certainly happen, but I am afraid that the level of adaptability to life in nature of modern people is unsatisfactory. Hunting and cannibalism are the lot of the survivors.
            The Red Ghost is a symbol of an avenger detached from his own fate. He is not bound by any order, does not act in the interests of the command, is cut off from supplies. The question is how many rounds he can usefully spend. The class coloration determines only the degree of fanaticism.
            1. +2
              27 October 2021 08: 27
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              Wolf pack = large family of alpha female. Do you mean the tribal relations of primitive people?

              Well, what are you, I am far from great philosophical research, in other ways, as well as from a fantasy about the development of the world after a nuclear explosion!
        2. 0
          28 October 2021 20: 52
          You do not believe with scientific knowledge!
          A ghost is haunting Europe. The specter of communism!
          ... None of the Marxists believed that a successful revolution could happen in peasant Russia.
          The socialist revolution was to take place in the developed capitalist countries ...

          As I understand, this period has come, the flourishing of capitalism is obviously behind ... And now forward to the victory of Communism!
          And these are not puns or jokes.
  9. +4
    26 October 2021 07: 28
    Author, what is our doctrine, and why do we need a Fleet?
    The fleet is not built just so that there are more pennants, but more tonnage.
    Do we have a powerful merchant fleet like China, USA, South Korea, Japan, etc.? No. Highly developed infrastructure / industry onshore like the above countries? No. Almost everything is in the interior of the country. And what the hell is a powerful Navy then? What will he protect?

    Please note that the number of multipurpose nuclear submarines Ash will be equal or so to Borey? For the escort of the latter. That's all. This is our strategy. Well, maybe a little from above from Shchuk and Anteev will remain for substitution and special tasks.

    The USSR had a powerful navy and a trade / fishing / tanker / ... plus the ambitions of a superpower. Everything was understandable. And now? Only one ambition and phantom pain from an amputated limb. This is if you look extremely soberly at the state of affairs, reality and the future.
    1. -11
      26 October 2021 07: 49
      Quote: FRoman1984
      Author, what is our doctrine, and why do we need a Fleet?

      The author 10 years "walked" in the submarine, and then 10 years developed a torpedo.
      True, it looks like all this, he did on the couch with beer and chips. laughing
      Well, judging by the text of the articles ...
      But please do not argue with an expert analyst.
      Otherwise, an ocean of minuses from his ideological associates is guaranteed.
    2. -6
      26 October 2021 07: 58
      Quote: FRoman1984
      The USSR had a powerful navy and a trade / fishing / tanker / ... plus the ambitions of a superpower.

      And most importantly, how did all this help to save oneself from the geopolitical defeat? ...
  10. +5
    26 October 2021 07: 32
    The whole article is fortune telling on the coffee grounds. There may be a war closer to 2030. Or maybe it won't. (Why didn't this author predict the coronavirus? recourse )
    Maybe we can return the submarine to service by repair. Or maybe we won't. (Naturally, how does the author know the current technical condition of the submarines is top secret information tongue )
    as a result, for the war we will have not 11 submarines in two fleets, but 16-21

    Outdated boats with many (even if they are in serious repairs) worn out mechanisms and hulls. At the same time, they will still have to be written off later in the 40s if the war does not happen. Better for this money to force the "Ash".
    But what is definitely not needed is the construction of new SSBNs. There are already more of them than the fleet can deploy with at least minimal enemy opposition. Do not need anymore. Not a single ship.

    Anyone from the submariners or the Navy, unsubscribe, this is not a case of a call to undermine the country's defenses? After all, SSBNs are the most secure and reliable of nuclear deterrent weapons? (Proven by the Americans wink ) And if new ones are not built by 2030, our attacking / deterrent (by that time) capabilities are greatly devalued.
    The only thing in which I agree with the author: you need less jingoistic nonsense in the media, but it will not work to save money on it, the concussion of the air with the tongue was always not too expensive (a hint to the author wassat ).
    1. +4
      26 October 2021 09: 45
      Quote: KKND
      Maybe we can return the submarine to service by repair. Or maybe we won't. (Naturally, how does the author know the current technical condition of the submarines is top secret information

      You have sown doubts about the competence of the author. Indeed, Russia is not GB, where secret documents are left at bus stops. How does he know what and how? Can you imagine that today the Internet and social networks have become a source of information for painstaking analysts?
      Okay, you think the author has gone too far. Let, in your opinion, everything is not so bad in the house Oblonskikh Putin and Shoigu. There are new types of weapons that have no analogues in the world, there is a doctrine and conditions for the use of nuclear weapons, there are (???) tactical nuclear weapons, there are reliable air defense systems and delivery systems for NSA ... stop But the author raised a completely banal sufficiency weapons in Russia, the topic of the ability to effectively confront under water (there is also on water, on land, in the air, in space ...)
      Thirty years of reform have passed. The notorious (according to the liberals) times of socialist creation allowed the USSR to CREATE AGAIN (!!!) aviation, artillery, tank troops, navy, small arms ... Needless to say, in what conditions it was all created in peacetime and how it was happened during WWII? Naturally, the greatest burden of worries fell on the shoulders of the people. They were malnourished, lacked sleep, were freezing and did not know the amenities, but they survived ...
      Today, millions of Russian citizens live in a state of poverty. Vocational education is buried under the ruins of capitalization, bitter memories of the former defense industry remain, and what is the result? What heights have we achieved? In the event (God forbid) a local conflict (and the likelihood of a global one cannot be ruled out), we will be ready for an effective rebuff, will we be able to counter the attack with effective measures and strategy?
      This is what must be compared, this is what must be studied. And “true patriots” measure everything by the number of cars in the courtyards, welfare by the number of square meters of housing, and success by the number of billionaires and millionaires. We must throw at the enemy not with cars and not with hats. This is what Alexander Timokhin is talking about.
      hi
      1. +1
        26 October 2021 09: 49
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Okay, you think the author has gone too far. Let, in your opinion, everything is not so bad in the house of Oblonskys Putins and Shoigu.

        It's good that there are people on the Internet who themselves will come up with an opinion for me wassat
        Quote: ROSS 42
        This is what must be compared, this is what must be studied.

        Do you have anything specific to say about the fleet? fool
        1. +1
          26 October 2021 09: 56
          Quote: KKND
          Do you have anything specific to say about the fleet?

          Are you born like that or can't read? The author described everything in such detail that it is impossible to understand him - to have a head made of bone. I just have to summarize what I have written and emphasize the main idea:
          Quote: ROSS 42
          But the author raised the completely banal topic of the sufficiency of weapons in Russia, the topic of the ability to effectively confront under water (there is also on water, on land, in the air, in space ...)

          Good luck in mastering the alphabet.
    2. +3
      26 October 2021 12: 16
      Quote: KKND
      After all, SSBNs are the most secure and reliable nuclear deterrent? (Proven by the Americans wink)
      SSBNs are the most secure and reliable nuclear deterrent when backed by the world's most powerful fleet. And the most powerful fleet in the world is operating against our SSBNs, so doubts about their security are justified.
    3. +5
      26 October 2021 13: 13
      Quote: KKND
      Anyone from the submariners or the Navy, unsubscribe, is this a case not a call to undermine the country's defenses? After all, SSBNs are the most secure and reliable of nuclear deterrents? (Proven by the Americans)

      That's when we have a fleet, at least half the size of the Americans, then SSBNs will be the most secure and reliable nuclear deterrent.

      To become such a means of SSBNs, you need to go from the base to the positional area covered by air defense and anti-aircraft defense forces. And now we have nothing to drive the enemy's MCSNS even from the exits from our bases - while we were building the "patrol pigeons of peace," Soviet-built IPCs died.

      If we take an analogy from the Air Force, then our SSBNs are a Tu-160 squadron, the airfield of which is covered by a MiG-23MLD squadron, and there is a Su-30 squadron for escort. And that's all. Long-range detection has practically collapsed, there is no air defense system. F-15 and F-35 fly around our airfield, 7-8 times more of which are deployed in the immediate vicinity.
      Quote: KKND
      And if new ones are not built by 2030, our attack / deterrent (by that time) capabilities are greatly devalued.

      We now have SSBNs more than living SSNS. I will not talk about any treaties on the reduction and limitation of strategic offensive arms, limiting the number of launchers and warheads on submarines - but what is the point of building SSBNs at an advanced pace if there is no one to cover them? Why build something that will inevitably be lost in the event of war? Isn't it wiser to build SSNNs instead of SSBNs?
      1. +5
        26 October 2021 13: 19
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Why build something that will inevitably be lost in the event of war? Isn't it wiser to build SSNNs instead of SSBNs?

        The Russian military-industrial complex has been building for a long time not what it needs, but what it is able to build, and this applies not only to the fleet.
        1. +4
          26 October 2021 13: 33
          Quote: Liam
          The Russian military-industrial complex has been building for a long time not what it needs, but what it is able to build, and this applies not only to the fleet.

          So the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation can build MCSNS - and is building them. NS. 955, etc. 885 run in parallel.
          The problem is not that SSBNs are not being built, the problem is in the ratio of SSBNs and SSNs under construction.
          1. +1
            26 October 2021 13: 42
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The problem is not that SSBNs are not being built, the problem is in the ratio of SSBNs and SSNs under construction.

            So I'm talking about this. The current pace of construction of SSNS is the limit that the military-industrial complex can give out in its current state. Do you suggest that strategists not build because of this?)
            1. 0
              26 October 2021 14: 37
              Quote: Liam
              So I'm talking about this. The current pace of construction of SSNS is the limit that the military-industrial complex can give out in its current state. Do you suggest that strategists not build because of this?)

              No. I propose two SSBNs laid down in August this year before it is too late to re-lay them as SSBNs. Otherwise, they are destined to become "launchers at the pier."
              1. -1
                26 October 2021 22: 57
                Quote: Alexey RA
                I suggest

                Have you not noticed yet that in the military-industrial complex in the ISSAPL they are not very good at it?
      2. -2
        26 October 2021 15: 31
        Quote: Alexey RA
        To become such a means of SSBNs, you need to go from the base to the positional area covered by air defense and anti-aircraft defense forces. And now we have nothing to drive the enemy's MCSNS even from the exits from our bases - while we were building the "patrol pigeons of peace," Soviet-built IPCs died.

        Yes, I know everything about SSBN hunters. And all the same, if during the threatened period they float dispersed in the ocean, albeit without cover, it's so easy for them all you will not find.
        1. +3
          26 October 2021 15: 45
          Quote: KKND
          And all the same, if during the threatened period they float dispersed in the ocean, albeit without cover, you simply will not find them all.

          They will not be looked for. They will be led from the bases. And we will have nothing to "cut the tails" with.
          1. -1
            26 October 2021 16: 01
            Quote: Alexey RA
            They will not be looked for. They will be led from the bases. And we will have nothing to "cut the tails" with.

            I do not know much about the underwater business, but I don’t think that it’s such a simple task to catch the "tails". The aircraft carrier with the KUG cannot be found, but here the tails to the submarines are clinging playfully in words. In any case, I understand much more in aviation than in underwater business, so it would be foolish for me to argue.
            1. 0
              26 October 2021 20: 00
              Quote: KKND
              I do not know much about the underwater business, but I don’t think that it’s such a simple task to catch the "tails". The aircraft carrier with the KUG cannot be found, but here the tails to the submarines are clinging playfully in words.

              And you imagine that the AUG is met right at the exit from the base. Because the enemy has no anti-aircraft weapons left either in the DMZ or in the BMZ - so you can even lie on the border of the 12-mile zone and wait until the hustle and bustle in the base hints at something big.
              Quote: KKND
              In any case, I understand much more in aviation than in underwater business, so it would be foolish for me to argue.

              Well, imagine that enemy fighters regularly patrol near the corridors of entry and exit - and you find these patrols only occasionally.
        2. 0
          27 October 2021 14: 06
          And it will be, this period?
      3. -5
        26 October 2021 15: 59
        SSBN is like a loaded rifle in the house, robbers knowing that you have it and you will use it against them - knowing it to break into your house, they will not, therefore, SSBN Russia is actively updating how it finishes it will switch to the construction of SSBN we have two options either do SSBN or Our SSNS chose the first one.
        1. +1
          26 October 2021 20: 10
          Quote: Vadim237
          SSBN is like a loaded rifle in the house, robbers, knowing that you have it and you will use it against them - knowing this they will not break into your house

          SSBN is a division at a permanent deployment point. She is dangerous only if she managed to get out and take positions. Therefore, the enemy always has a great temptation to cover her sleeping right in the barracks.
          And in your analogy, the problem is that we have not robbers, but arsonists. The safety of the house does not bother them - they will calmly burn it, along with the rifle and the owner, if he misses their approach.
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 20: 57
            She will be dangerous even being at the pier - since she can launch rockets at any time and in any place where she is - the shot will be shot. Therefore, the enemy always has a great temptation to cover her sleeping right in the barracks. - He has no technical or any other opportunities to cover all this - everything is under the control of radar and early warning systems and other means of reconnaissance, the house is also surrounded by a fence and it is made of stone and the whole tree is impregnated with heat-resistant varnish - even setting it on fire with an incendiary mixture will not work.
            1. +1
              27 October 2021 10: 55
              Quote: Vadim237
              She will be dangerous even being at the pier - since she can launch rockets at any time and in any place where she is - the shot will be shot.

              This has already been considered.
              The problem of SSBNs in the base is that there is a great chance that the enemy in the first strike will reach the base before the SSBNs in it will accept and work out the launch command.
              This is not a PGRK, skerry in the interior of the country. SSBNs are based 12-15 miles from the border, and even have the open sea, or even the ocean, at their side.
              Quote: Vadim237
              He has neither technical nor any other capabilities to cover all this - everything is under the control of the radar and early warning system and other means of reconnaissance.

              So the launch at SSBN bases will not be from the continental United States or from distant positional areas, but from a short distance. Will the SSBN have time to receive the command to launch and shoot if there is 7-8 minutes between the message "a probable missile launch is recorded" and the finish of the warhead? This is 3-4 minutes for the management to check and make a decision.
    4. -1
      27 October 2021 16: 54
      After all, SSBNs are the most secure and reliable nuclear deterrent? (Proved by the Americans

      The author writes about this in the first article that it is from there, from under the water that they will kill us, but at the same time he urges us not to build SSBNs ourselves. This is motivated by the fact that there is no one to take them out to sea. I don’t know what this confidence is based on, there are different ways of bringing the boat into combat service. And they do not go to the coast of California and Florida, but more and more prosaically.
  11. +18
    26 October 2021 07: 45
    A summary analysis and forecast of the ship composition was made in the last article of the series.

    Actually, there was no forecast there. There was only a summary about "our huge plans" and a statement of the fact that if the plan is fulfilled, we will still break through the bottom of non-strategic nuclear submarines ...
    1. +11
      26 October 2021 08: 00
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      a statement of the fact that if the plan is fulfilled, we will still break through the bottom on non-strategic nuclear submarines ...

      hi yes, that's exactly what it was indicated.
      In my humble opinion, you can theoretically build 20 Ash-M. But any ship, including an underwater one, must not only be tied with mooring lines to the pier, but also provide a mass of various energy media, such as various electricity, steam for heating and for equipment operation, water, air. And even in the Soviet Union, there were big problems with these nishtyaks, the parameters of the media supplied from the shore were not satisfactory, and in order to provide the boat, the crews often drove ship equipment, wasting its precious resource. Huge money is needed to build its own berth with a thermal power plant, compressor station, etc. for each nuclear submarine. If you build 20 Yasenei-M without proper infrastructure in the bases, then our boats will sail for 2 years before the average repair and call Severodvinsk once a year.
      1. +10
        26 October 2021 08: 49
        Greetings, dear Bashkirkhan!
        I totally agree. I just think that heat and power plants can be built, one per base, so that all berths are fed from it. So, perhaps, it will still be cheaper.
        And without coastal support, of course, there is no point in building a fleet.
        1. +8
          26 October 2021 09: 26
          Dear Andrey! Infrastructure costs no less than nuclear submarines. In tsarist Russia under the LK type "Sevastopol" and "Empress Maria" specially built so-called. "Emergency docks" in Kronstadt and Sevastopol. Now the heavy cruiser "Admiral Lazarev" is being disposed of in the BPD-41, which was made by order of the Soviet Union in Japan at the Tokyo shipyard "Isikawajima", which entered the history of the Land of the Rising Sun by the construction of the first ship of the European type "Asahi-maru" back in 1856. BPD-41 is more than 40 years old with a standard service life of 50 years. Soon it will sink like a PD-50 itself and the shipyard will be left without its main production tool.

          1. +3
            26 October 2021 16: 01
            A dry dock will make it much easier than building a floating dock.
          2. +2
            26 October 2021 17: 51
            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            Dear Andrey! Infrastructure costs no less than nuclear submarines. In tsarist Russia under the LK type "Sevastopol" and "Empress Maria" specially built so-called. "Emergency docks" in Kronstadt and Sevastopol.

            Here I would venture to object. If my memory serves me, then the Revel plant of the Russian-Baltic shipbuilding and mechanical society with its dock at 330 meters, stocks at 250 meters and a bunch of workshops (including turbine, boiler, etc., etc.) cost something about RUB 25 million that is, cheaper than one dreadnought. The base in Novorossiysk, where the entire Black Sea Fleet was supposed to be based, was estimated at 92 billion, when one serial Ash was estimated at 32 billion - and there seemed to be very difficult deep-sea work there.
            It seems to me that the infrastructure will be expensive, but not by the same amount.
            1. +1
              26 October 2021 21: 03
              Ash trees are slowly being built since the series under construction Ash M is essentially a new boat, unlike Ash, hence the slowdown with serial production, everything needs to be tested and mastered in production anew.
              1. -1
                27 October 2021 14: 05
                And then the war. You will also make excuses to the Americans, like, you couldn't, so don't attack us hard.
            2. 0
              27 October 2021 16: 59
              and there, after all, there seemed to be very difficult deep-sea work.

              Deep dredging, if you mean dredging, is not that expensive. The work is not difficult - dig and take.
              1. +3
                27 October 2021 17: 38
                In the Novorossiysk naval base, the pier was built at a greater depth than the bridge across the Kerch Strait. There was a lot of concrete for two breakwaters. The western one is 850 meters long, the eastern one is 1400 meters long. They form the perimeter of the base. The depth there is 25-27 meters of water. Even lower is silt, the thickness of which reaches 15 meters. Below is the bottom, rocky ground.
                Photo 2018 years
      2. 0
        27 October 2021 16: 57
        and visit Severodvinsk once a year.

        They will not be able to go to Severodvinsk once a year, there is no such capacity there. On boats, we cannot change the reactor core for years, there is not enough capacity.
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 17: 34
          Quote: Stepan S
          They will not be able to go to Severodvinsk once a year, there is no such capacity there. On boats, we cannot change the reactor core for years, there is not enough capacity.

          I agree that ship repair is decidedly unable to cope with the available volumes.
  12. +2
    26 October 2021 08: 05
    "Only theft can save us from revision. ... Everything has already been stolen before us! This is sheer trifles, you only need to stage theft. You need to break the lock, leave traces of the removal of the goods, and calmly leave without taking anything!" ) smile
  13. +1
    26 October 2021 08: 06
    And why will the war begin in the 30s? What are the prerequisites and what is the author's confidence based on?
    1. +1
      26 October 2021 08: 49
      And in the previous article it was written. The Americans' nuclear missiles are becoming obsolete, but they do not know how to make new ones, therefore they will definitely unleash a nuclear war.
      1. +4
        26 October 2021 10: 23
        Quote: Angry Troll
        And in the previous article it was written. The Americans' nuclear missiles are becoming obsolete, but they do not know how to make new ones, therefore they will definitely unleash a nuclear war.

        for all the amusement of Timokhin's arguments about the war, the fleet must be combat-ready, ... and the main problem of the fleet is window dressing, too expensive window dressing in the form of an ultra-expensive senseless vulnerable Kuzi and two little-needed UDCs, we would have 5-7 more nuclear submarines if we sold Kuzyu .... Timokhin here puts forward some unreasonable incomprehensible ideas, 1 it is unlikely that SSBNs will go half-escorted by Ash, rather like ash itself, and the exit of nuclear submarines from bases should be controlled and ensured by non-nuclear submarines and aircraft (which are not that all the money was gobbled up by Kuzya) 2 why Ash to someone to sell, he needs to be done for himself and so there is not enough.
      2. 0
        26 October 2021 12: 07
        Why. Can someone answer this question?
    2. +1
      26 October 2021 16: 02
      On the fantasies of the author - that's what it is based on.
    3. 0
      27 October 2021 17: 43
      What are the prerequisites and what is the author's confidence based on?

      This is outlined in the previous article. In short - by this time, the United States should actively become obsolete and become unusable, the main means of attack and they either need to strike, or everything will "rust" and there will be nothing to fight with.
  14. BAI
    +6
    26 October 2021 08: 44
    It seems to me that the state of affairs in the Russian Navy is very accurately characterized by the words of Catherine when she inspected the Baltic Fleet: "There are many ships and people, but there are no navy and sailors." But with her, the fleet was recreated ...
    1. 0
      26 October 2021 16: 05
      And now it is being revived a little - as far as possible.
  15. -3
    26 October 2021 08: 49
    And in an economic way, can't Russia strangle the United States? We have the 5th economy in the world. Only nuclear war? There is no alternative?
    1. +2
      26 October 2021 13: 40
      Judging by the set disadvantages, only nuclear war, there is no alternative. laughing
  16. -3
    26 October 2021 09: 26
    The author has absolutely incorrect data on the commissioning of Boreyev. There is already the fifth one on the way .. and he started everything on two. The same goes for the rest.
    1. +3
      26 October 2021 09: 56
      Quote: Skipper
      The author has absolutely incorrect data on the commissioning of Boreyev.
      Everything is in the table, 10 units for 2 fleets by 2030. Have you read it carefully?
    2. +1
      26 October 2021 13: 21
      Quote: Skipper
      The author has absolutely incorrect data on the commissioning of Boreyev. There is already the fifth one on the way .. and he started everything on two.

      It's just that the author's SF and Pacific Fleet are given separately. wink
      Two Boreas in the Northern Fleet and two in the Pacific Fleet. And only those commissioned are taken into account.
  17. +4
    26 October 2021 09: 50
    Don't even know how to rate this article ...
    Another huge article about the fact that we are not doing well with the submarine fleet, and in a few years everything will be really bad. In general, there is nothing new for those who, at least superficially, monitor the state of our fleet, there is simply that the prospects are specifically outlined. The measures to overcome all this horror are indicated fantastic, all the cash flows for the construction and repair of submarines have already been distributed and even stolen, so no one will allow this money to be redistributed.
    Honestly, much more interesting and informative would be articles that reveal the purpose of building submarines of various classes, that is, about modern trends in the use of submarines in war at sea. Very few readers understand the difference between SSGN, PLAC, MPLARK, and even their purpose for the majority is a secret sealed with seven seals.
    The author has done a great job, but just why?
    1. 0
      26 October 2021 10: 04
      Show signs to cheers for patriots in 2030.
      1. +2
        26 October 2021 12: 11
        But what does the war have to do with it? Why fight at all if you can impose sanctions and put pressure on economically? At the same time, if we talk in general, then there will be no full-scale war between Russia and the United States, in principle, because of Yao. And why bomb the country that buys your products from you by supplying you with raw materials? Can you explain briefly? And why exactly the 30s and not the 50s or 90s?
        War is an extreme method, and sanctions are working quite successfully so far.
        1. +1
          26 October 2021 13: 46
          But what does the war have to do with it?
          Nah, not. Only a vigorous war. The people on the sofas, the muscles are full of strength, their brains are enlightened from TV programs, they can repeat it .. smile Only nuclear war .. smile What would be the world in dust. To the ground ... and there a couple of billion years will pass ... you see, people on Earth will start again.
          Like a poet:
          Night, street, lantern, pharmacy,
          A senseless and dim light.
          Live for at least a quarter of a century - Everything will be like this. There is no escape.
          Dying - you'll start again first
          And everything will be repeated, as old:
          The night, the icy ripple of the canal,
          Pharmacy, street, lantern smile
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 15: 59
            Classics are always immortal)
        2. 0
          26 October 2021 19: 15
          The link to the first part is at the beginning of the article, do not be lazy
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 20: 48
            Well, paper will endure all sorts of rubbish. Why will there be a war? I don't mind the reasons. Resources go west. From there we get industrial goods and machines. Their inflation remains with us. All OK. Plus, we are closed markets for the sale of our products, anything other than raw materials.
            1. 0
              27 October 2021 14: 04
              It is written there.
    2. 0
      27 October 2021 17: 49
      In general, there is nothing new for those who, at least superficially, monitor the state of our fleet, there is simply that the prospects are specifically outlined.

      And whoever has information on current affairs, it is often still worse than the post described.
  18. +1
    26 October 2021 09: 53
    It's sad, of course, I liked the article very much. I'm waiting about the surface fleet))
  19. +7
    26 October 2021 09: 58
    Whether the war will start or not, I do not know, God forbid that it would not !!!!!! But we live in a global world, in order to protect our markets, our interests, our trade, we must have a powerful Navy, no economic development in the modern world is possible without a protectionist policy. How can this be done without a fleet. Yes, we will never create mattresses equal in power to the fleet, but we are better able not to touch the fleet. There is a deep systemic crisis in the country, and I, in any case, do not see a way out of it.
    Let me give you one example from my own work. I work for one of the largest federal companies. Managers, they brought everything to the point of absurdity, I make a planned detour of objects, due to the specifics of the company's activities, fire safety is of paramount importance. A herd of sheep walks around the facility, well, I think, okay, maybe the head of the structural unit started it, they don't seem to interfere, I think "yes, figs with him." After arriving at the tenth or fifteenth facility, I could not stand it, I asked the boss "what kind of *****" Answers "and you are not aware of the boss's know-how, no people have been optimized, there will be no one to mow the grass, there will be strict Rostec sanctions, that's gave the command to negotiate with the locals and launch the rams, one more optimization and put on special clothes on the rams helmets and will work. "In this example, the whole situation is in any area, in any industry. Continuous lobbyism is everywhere and only for cutting, and the deepest non-professionalism.
  20. +6
    26 October 2021 10: 09
    Quote: Lair
    the author does not take into account the environmental consequences of massive nuclear strikes against Russia and the United States at all, and they can lead to critical consequences throughout the world …….

    For example, there are more than 70 nuclear power plants in the United States. Striking at least ten will have more serious consequences than the death of 20 million.
    1. +1
      26 October 2021 22: 41
      Do not exaggerate the consequences, read about the actual results of major accidents at nuclear power plants and try to estimate how many people died. Fukushima - 2 people (drowned), Three Mile Island - no casualties. Only in Chernobyl more or less massively (50 people), but who died in the main? - liquidators.
      1. 0
        27 October 2021 06: 21
        According to the data of the Ministry of Finance of the USSR, published on July 16, 1991, the costs associated with the elimination of the consequences of the Chernobyl accident in 1986-1990 amount to 12,6 billion rubles. (in 1986 prices).
        The Japanese government in 2016 estimated the costs of eliminating the consequences of the disaster at the Fukushima nuclear power plant at $ 180 billion.
        During 1986, to eliminate the accident, it was necessary to keep an army of half a million people near Chernobyl. Most of them received certain doses of radiation, their health was undermined. More than 100 thousand people were evacuated.
        And this is with a favorable development of events in terms of the direction of wind flows. Thank God, there was no evacuation of the 5 millionth Kiev agglomeration.
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 08: 18
          Without action, in 50 years the cards will be almost identical.
  21. +4
    26 October 2021 10: 25
    An interesting article, of course it is necessary to stir the "bosses". However, it is hardly advisable to do this by cutting down the Poseidons. In the context of the US dominance in space, the missile defense system of short-range missiles in Europe, and the reduction in flight time, the Poseidons are one of the few weighty arguments in the form of a retaliatory strike. Perhaps not the best invention, but at least something. There is no way to intercept it yet, since the methods of counteraction have simply not been developed. Over time, of course, they will come up with it, but this is another 15.20 years. It is hardly reasonable to exchange the possibility of a guaranteed retaliatory strike for several combat-ready submarines, anyway there will be no advantage. Better both.
    1. +2
      26 October 2021 13: 29
      Quote: Resident of the Urals
      In the context of the US dominance in space, the missile defense system of short-range missiles in Europe, and the reduction in flight time, the Poseidons are one of the few weighty arguments in the form of a retaliatory strike.

      In these conditions, the most weighty argument is the increase in the number of ICBMs and SLBMs. That the number of warheads that broke through the missile defense system was above the threshold of "damage unacceptable to the enemy."
      Fortunately, missile defense, even in the near future, will not allow creating a reliable umbrella from strategic ballistic missiles. smile
      Quote: Resident of the Urals
      There is no way to intercept it yet, since the methods of counteraction have simply not been developed.

      Methods of counteraction and means of dealing with high-speed underwater targets were worked out back in the Cold War. In addition, Poseidon's capabilities in countering detection and interception are far inferior to nuclear submarines.

      "Poseidon" is an underwater reincarnation of an intercontinental cruise missile, which the Strategic Missile Forces abandoned during the reign of dear Leonid Ilyich.
      1. -1
        26 October 2021 16: 10
        And now they have become relevant again, and yes, their detection by means of an ASW in the context of an exchange of nuclear strikes seems to be extremely dubious.
        1. 0
          26 October 2021 20: 15
          Quote: Vadim237
          And now they have become relevant again, and yes, their detection by means of an ASW in the context of an exchange of nuclear strikes seems to be extremely dubious.

          In an exchange of nuclear strikes actual are 16 SLBMs with 96 warheads and their carrier + SSNS for escort.
          And not built in their place a pair of carriers and eight "Poseidons" - which, moreover, can only hit coastal targets.
          1. -2
            26 October 2021 21: 36
            And not built in their place a pair of carriers and eight "Poseidons" - which, moreover, can only hit coastal targets. They are intended primarily for the destruction of the enemy's naval military infrastructure and coastal strategic objects, if there is a thermonuclear charge really 100 Megatons, then one such NPA can demolish all Hawaii, they can also deactivate the enemy's hydroacoustic means explosion under water and all sensitive hydrophones will go deaf hunts to attack naval strike groups of enemy ships that will avoid a nuclear strike. In Belgorod, most likely 6 NPA, but vryatli on three nuclear submarines, the series will end in the final version, they will be made by 6 three carriers for the northern fleets and three for the Pacific fleets - 36 Poseidon vehicles. Who knows, maybe submarines as carriers of such UOA are not limited to ships for the GUGI are now building some of the same can become carriers.
            1. +1
              27 October 2021 11: 25
              Quote: Vadim237
              They are intended primarily for the destruction of the enemy's naval military infrastructure and coastal strategic objects, if there is a thermonuclear charge really 100 Megatons, then one such NPA can demolish all of Hawaii

              Two SLBMs with 12 warheads will cope with this task much better than one underwater charge.
              Quote: Vadim237
              In Belgorod, most likely 6 NPA, but vryatli on three nuclear submarines, the series will end in the final version, they will be made by 6 three carriers for the northern fleets and three for the Pacific fleets - 36 Poseidon vehicles.

              That is, minus three SSBNs (48 SLBMs or 288 warheads, the interception of which is practically impossible) and minus 3 SSNS. For the sake of 36 vehicles capable of attacking only coastal targets, and the interception of which was possible even by means of the 80s of the last century. Pretty, pretty ... ©
  22. -1
    26 October 2021 10: 38
    Nice article, Author!
    A little bloated. IMHO it was superfluous to paint steps to rectify the situation. Doing anything is ALREADY LATE. Sorry.
    And with this:
    This is often not the case in the Ground Forces, sometimes it is not so in the Aerospace Forces, but it is almost always the case in the Navy.

    I strongly disagree. Look closely at the "breakthroughs" in the other branches of the armed forces. How many "Pechenegs" are there in the troops? And the "Cordov"? Maybe we have an analogue of "Javelin"? Where is Armata? And the Su-57? How many combatants are there in the Aerospace Forces? And how many AFARs are on the STRUCTURAL aircraft? I am already silent about all sorts of ersatz like "Daggers" and "Zircons".
    So, Author, our fleet is still in a pretty good position.
    1. +3
      26 October 2021 11: 24
      I strongly disagree. Look closely at the "breakthroughs" in the other branches of the armed forces. How many "Pechenegs" are there in the troops? And the "Cordov"? Maybe we have an analogue of "Javelin"? Where is Armata? And the Su-57? How many combatants are there in the Aerospace Forces? And how many AFARs are on the STRUCTURAL aircraft? I am already silent about all sorts of ersatz like "Daggers" and "Zircons".


      The SVs are at least trying to do something, within budget.
    2. 0
      26 October 2021 16: 15
      How many "Pechenegs" are there in the troops? And the "Cordov"? All units of the ground forces are armed with them and the AK 12 will soon re-equip everyone. Where is Armata? And the Su-57? The first on state trials promise to be adopted in the 2022th Su 57, one in service by the end of the year, they promise to transfer another 4. I'm already silent about all sorts of ersatz like "Daggers" and "Zircons". Daggers are in service in the Southern Military District and in the Far Eastern Military District there are Zircons already, as in the series, in service after the end of state tests, they will be adopted next year.
  23. 0
    26 October 2021 10: 48
    Good afternoon!
    Thank you very much, Alexander, for the interesting article.
    My views on the upcoming war largely coincide with yours, the composition of the armed forces and the Navy, in particular, is of great importance, but the main thing is to determine the strategy of Russia in the upcoming events.
    In my amateurish opinion:
    1. World war is inevitable, and parades and other showmanship cannot prevent it.
    2. The purpose of the war on the part of the United States is to create a global state with a slave-owning system to govern the entire planet. The population of the Earth and its territorial distribution will be carried out according to the plan of the "Ost" type.
    3. The main prize for "partners" V.V. Putin and S.V. Lavrov is the elimination of Russia as an independent state and its titular nation to provide the globalists with territory and resources, as well as the enslavement of China as a "world factory."
    4. The main theater of the upcoming war will be the Pacific Ocean, the auxiliary one - Europe and the Atlantic. Hence - allied relations with China, as the only way of Russia's survival.
    5. The war must be started with a sudden preemptive strike (with or without reason) at one of the US allies. The most convenient target is Japan. The lightning defeat of a large industrial country will ensure the safety of the Pacific seas and the severing of potential allies from the United States. The United States builds its strategy on the complete disregard of the will of the enemy, relying on its publicized, but by no means indisputable power. They get lost and flee from the unexpected initiative of the enemy, hoping to stabilize the situation and develop new solutions (insular instinct). Our task is to carry out successive operations to paralyze the enemy's will, preferably with the transfer of the theater of operations to the enemy's territory (Alaska).
    6. In connection with the oceanic nature of military operations, the main guarantee of victory is undermining the enemy's logistical capabilities and ensuring their own. The role of strategic aviation and the submarine fleet is decisive in this. It is necessary to transfer all strategic bomber aviation to the subordination of the Navy. It is also necessary to decide that the development of anti-submarine forces or the elimination of enemy submarine bases is more important.
    7. With the successful development of hostilities, it is necessary to ensure such a level of defeat of the enemy so that he cannot restore his military power in a short time, both on his own territory and on the reserve (Australia-Oceania).
    Based on these theses, it is worth considering the feasibility of total mobilization of all existing SSBN and submarine corps for modernization in the interests of waging war in the Pacific theater of operations.
  24. 0
    26 October 2021 11: 18
    I support the author's point of view.
    Only I do not understand why we should hack to death the almost finished Poseidon, when its presence can force our best friends to spend a lot of money on intelligence / countermeasures? You can make a coastal launch option, underwater, container version.

    It is also unclear what is offered for the ready-made carriers of the megatorpeda? Maybe a conversion into a special purpose / rescue option, which is very necessary (how old is Kursk)?
    1. +3
      26 October 2021 11: 23
      Only I do not understand why we should hack to death the almost finished Poseidon, when its presence can force our best friends to spend a lot of money on intelligence / countermeasures?


      Will not force you at all, follow the links on Poseidon, they are in the text, read.
      1. -2
        26 October 2021 12: 47
        And if we consider Poseidon as a carrier of tactical underwater drones?
        1. +2
          26 October 2021 12: 53
          What for? It is well known about this thing that it is NOT a drone carrier.
          1. 0
            26 October 2021 13: 18
            Alexander, please be consistent: either "all hulls are for modernization", then, in fact, the carrier of large-sized underwater vehicles is not used. Even as the creator of the decoy field.
            In truth: "If Russia calls its dead, So it means - trouble! ..."
            1. +1
              26 October 2021 13: 56
              I didn’t say that Belgorod should be left unused. After all, it has already been built.
              It's just that this boat won't be able to fight the enemy MPLA.
              1. 0
                26 October 2021 14: 27
                This is 100%.
                Refreshed in dementia memory your article about "wunderwaffe". Historically it is true, dialectically it is not. The United States has nothing to crush the mainland quantitatively, China is more productive. So you can send all the old, but good cases to China! Together with the documentation. Or the Chinese - to us for two-shift work. Or this and that according to the situation.
              2. 0
                26 October 2021 16: 18
                "It's just that this boat will not be able to fight the enemy MPLA" - This is why Belgorod will not be able to fight enemy boats and ships, there are probably, in addition to the Poseidons, conventional torpedoes and mines and cruise missiles and even anti-torpedo systems, the same NK package and acoustic countermeasures.
                1. +1
                  26 October 2021 18: 28
                  Only torpedoes, and it is unclear how many TA there are - the Baton's nose held 6 pieces, now there are two elds, and below the GUS antenna, I would not be surprised if there are no torpedoes at all
                  1. 0
                    26 October 2021 21: 45
                    If you haven't forgotten - there, in general, the hull was lengthened by 30 meters to 184 - and the Granites were removed and there were plenty of places for conventional torpedo tubes on the sides, as on Yasen, most likely they did.
                    1. +2
                      28 October 2021 18: 26
                      What makes you use the phrase "most likely"? Personal clarity?
      2. +3
        26 October 2021 14: 37
        I read that article, however, I still find Poseidon useful. Interception, of course, is possible, but not easy, and, again, the presence and use of such a torpedo potentially siphons the forces, funds and resources of friends. In addition, on its basis, it is possible to create imitators, global underwater reconnaissance and much more within the framework of a reasonable fantasy.
        1. +1
          26 October 2021 18: 28
          Everything is amazed at the available means, alas.
  25. +1
    26 October 2021 11: 50
    For some reason, I did not find Project 971M Gepard nuclear submarine in the Northern Fleet.
    1. +2
      26 October 2021 12: 05
      Because the "Gepard" did not undergo an average repair, there was only the restoration of technical readiness at the shipyard "Nerpa" 6 years ago. And they are not going to modernize it according to the 971M project. Will sail until thawed and sucks.
  26. +6
    26 October 2021 11: 53
    "We cannot build anything other than what is already laid down - there just won't be enough time."

    While I generally agree with the author's arguments and the proposed solutions, I disagree with the above statement.

    The average construction time for Yasen-M is currently 6-7 years and this can be reduced to around 5 years thanks to serial production and new construction methods (modular). Borisov, when asked about this recently, said that the construction of Ash will continue.

    Thus, if new submarines are laid down in 2022-2023, they could be completed by 2030. Currently, money is available (for example, foreign exchange reserves have reached an all-time high), and by the beginning of the 2030s it should be possible to build 5-6 more Ashlands-M.
    By 2030, at least 3-4 of them can be commissioned.

    Other proposed solutions (Irbis, 945), of course, can be implemented in parallel.

    PS Does anyone remember 945AB, Mars? A 4th generation submarine has already been developed in Russia ...

    Greetings from Greece, brothers!
  27. -1
    26 October 2021 12: 07
    "The Russian Ministry of Defense has long and consciously embarked on a policy of refusing to urgently correct critical shortcomings in the combat training of the Navy and naval development, preferring to flood everything with propaganda. It's hard to say why, but the Ministry of Defense is ready to spend more for show than on real combat training - only would not solve real problems. This is often not so in the Ground Forces, sometimes not so in the Aerospace Forces, but almost always so in the Navy. This is precisely the principled approach: “We will not prepare for war anyway, so that you don’t shout from below, clear? "" - well, as if only one addition to the article (the like was put, according to the previous article, GAO, I will unsubscribe later, I do not have time).

    It is necessary, absolutely necessary to hold cultural events, instead of parades:
    1. We take responsible and irresponsible persons involved in the shipbuilding program.
    2. We take one monument to the admiral (ambiguous, but it was good).
    3. With smooth movements we combine the most responsible places of responsible and irresponsible persons with the inscription REMEMBER THE WAR, and with bas-reliefs The death of Petropavlovsk and Yermak ...
    4. If it does not help, use the tail of the Japanese dragon.
    5. If this does not help, we explain that if the plan is not fulfilled for the final executions, the admiral's hand will be used (the admiral would definitely not mind). I am, as it were, an opponent of the death penalty, but in this case, the time is pre-war (we will spend it as a necessary defense).
    This will be much more effective.
  28. 0
    26 October 2021 13: 34
    Again, everything is in the style of "Chief, everything is gone." Of course, only managers sit in the Ministry of Defense, and forum writers have known for a long time how to fix and how to work, rather than people on the ground, etc. etc.
    Maybe everything is said right about the ships here, few will argue about this, but everything else is nonsense about the world war, which is almost a done deal and blah-blah-blah.
    1. +1
      26 October 2021 13: 50
      I repeat the question:

      By the way, it is worth digressing here, asking a question to the "hurray-patriots" who usually foaming at the mouth prove that everything is being done correctly in our country, and the author "throws mud at the achievements of Russia."

      Guys, are you okay with achievements?

      One running multipurpose boat 971 of the project and a pair of "batons" 949A for the entire Pacific theater of operations, for example, is this normal?

      Is this such a symbol of our greatness?

      Do you want to give a couple of reasons why this is the way it should be?


      Got something to say?
  29. -1
    26 October 2021 13: 51
    I didn't even finish reading. Russia needs a huge fleet. Some kind of game.

    England and France have about the same number of strategic and conventional nuclear submarines. There is no diesel submarine from the word at all. And no one suffers that the French / British fleet is weaker than the American one.

    Russia has no need for a navy capable of competing with the Chinese or American. Our 60-80 percent of the population does not live two hundred kilometers from the coast.

    Timokhin, let's go without slogans. There are 3 trillion rubles for defense in 2021. Tell us which programs to cancel to speed up fleet upgrades. Draw a program for five years, three trillion a year, for simplicity of calculations. The word drank and its synonyms are considered a loss.

    So, you are both the President and the Minister of Defense in one bottle. Ministers with notebooks and pens are ready to take notes.
    1. 0
      26 October 2021 16: 21
      "Russia needs a huge fleet." - Yes, so that Russia would be quickly ruined on its construction and maintenance.
    2. +5
      26 October 2021 19: 07
      I didn't even finish reading. Russia needs a huge fleet. Some kind of game.


      It is because of you like us that natural selection will reject all of us. For inability to get rid of ballast.

      Russia has no need for a navy capable of competing with the Chinese or American.


      Nobody offers.

      Our 60-80 percent of the population does not live two hundred kilometers from the coast.


      Does not live. But generally speaking, you can count how many people live in the coastal regions of the Russian Federation. For clearing the brain.

      Tell us which programs to cancel to speed up fleet upgrades


      Project 22160 - to cut on the slipway, for those handed over to plan the withdrawal to the reserve of the 1st category, the release of crews and money for other projects.
      Project 20386 - cut at the northern shipyard or converted into a simplified "large corvette" with a low level of technical innovation and only serial systems.
      MF RLC "Zaslon"
      SPA Poseidon
      PLASN "Khabarovsk"
      All planned PLASN GUGI-carriers of SPA Poseidon
      UDC 23900, at least one unit, if there is no material reserve yet, then both.
      WIGs - in full, all ongoing work.
      NS. 545 "Laika" - instead of it a cheaper PLA "according to Kormilitsyn", with the evolution prescribed in the project towards increasing the depth of immersion and speed from sub-series to sub-series.
      "Zircon" from an anti-ship missile version to a strike missile along the coast, to complete the tests in 2021, put it into service in 2022, start a separate development work on the aviation version in the form of an anti-ship missile.
      Close the topic of SSBNs, do not lay any of them, start research work on the appearance of an SLBM carrier in a future war, it is believed that they should change greatly.
      SKVVP. It was like the Aerospace Forces and the Navy jointly sabotaged, but so far none of the rats have come to the Tsar Uncle Vova, then everything will start again.
      In the auxiliary fleet there is a tanker of project 23130, to cut the series as unsuitable for the Navy and useless and very expensive - this money could have been used to build a second Berezina if Sobolevsky and Co. had not been sawed.

      Under abbreviation:
      PLASN "Moscow region" to withdraw to the reserve of the 1st category, GUGI will cost the new "Belgorod".
      Dismantle all decommissioned ships (except 945) and ships of the auxiliary fleet for metal at an accelerated pace, remove crews from them, stop spending money on maintenance. There are a huge number of them.
      MAK pr.21630 - in the reserve of the 1st category, due to the inability to stay on course when working with the main caliber (the ship demolishes, the sight is lost) and the extremely low probability of a military conflict in the Volga delta.

      Under the reduction of naval aviation:
      Be-12 - everything.
      Tu-134 - all
      Tu-154 - all
      An-140 - all
      IL-18.
      Su-27 - everything, assign peacetime tasks to OQIA.
      Of these, the Be-12 will be kept in reserve with normal storage conditions, the rest will be transferred to other types of aircraft / government agencies.

      Reduction of Coastal Troops
      Black Sea Fleet - 22nd corps - to transfer to SV, there to optimize.
      KFl - 177th regiment of the MP to reduce to dshb + oospn, transfer personnel to the SV, or retrain to the seafarers, SSO.
      Disband the 51st missile division, reserve equipment.

      This is something that is on the move, without thinking too much, and without giving away what they can be imprisoned for (and there is also there).
      And this is only the naval bluejet, without the "upper" budget of the Ministry of Defense, without revision of the naval programs of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, which are responsible for financing more than half of the research and development work and development projects (partly of the drinking ones).

      Will go?
      1. +4
        26 October 2021 20: 19
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Disband the 51st missile division, reserve equipment.

        Nizza is a reserve of the Navy in case of an urgent need to strengthen one of the directions. You remember the fate of the 46th division.
        In the same place, it is not the technique that is important, but the prepared l / s.
        1. +1
          27 October 2021 12: 00
          Well, on the one hand, this is a controversial issue, but on the other, this particular division is a trifle. In terms of money. Well, let them leave him.
      2. +1
        26 October 2021 21: 52
        Also add the purchase of 1000 Fizik 2 torpedoes and re-equip all the remaining submarines with them - although this is already a penny, such a torpedo is probably worth under 100 or more rubles.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. 0
        31 October 2021 20: 48
        This is something that is on the move, without thinking too much, and without giving away what they can be imprisoned for (and there is also there).
        And this is only the naval bluejet, without the "upper" budget of the Ministry of Defense, without revision of the naval programs of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, which are responsible for financing more than half of the research and development work and development projects (partly of the drinking ones).

        What do you propose to do with RTOs?
        1. +2
          1 November 2021 01: 00
          Let them walk while, you can slowly start to put hydroacoustic equipment on them first, then, if they figure out about the TA for the Package, then anti-torpedoes, then upgrade them to fire anti-ship missiles from external guidance to the VZOI with other ships, and so on, until you can change them to corvettes "pennant on pennant".

          This, of course, all applies to Buyan-M with Chinese diesel engines and to the Karakurt.
          Buyany-M with MTU relatively soon "without prior arrangement" will be tied up - spare parts are under sanctions, it will be very difficult to get around.
    3. +1
      30 October 2021 20: 44
      There are 3 trillion rubles for defense in 2021.

      The first step is to return the death penalty for participation in the theft of state funds on an especially large scale and sabotage, and return the confiscation of property, including relatives who cannot explain the origin of their property.
      Then carry out real investigative actions on the facts of embezzlement and sabotage, punishing all those responsible and those who try to obstruct the investigative actions.
      At the same time, to conduct a real test of the professional suitability of all admirals and generals, with an assessment of their knowledge and abilities, as well as to analyze their actions and their decisions, with the appropriate conclusions.
      Then nationalize all enterprises of the military-industrial complex and transfer all calculations to a completely state-owned bank. Conduct an annual polygraph test for all leaders of the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Defense.

      After such actions, the budget will actually be 3 trillion, and not what is left of the activities of embezzlers.

      More can be done, for this to nationalize the raw material industries and large-scale production, this will make it possible to make the defense budget not 3 but 6 trillion rubles.

      Only after such health procedures will our country begin to live and develop normally, build a combat-ready fleet and an efficient army.
      1. 0
        31 October 2021 08: 31
        He asked not to mention the saws. In the Russian Federation, the defense industry is sawn by orders of magnitude less than the United States, England, Germany or Israel. The fact that they take greyhound puppies instead of money does not change the essence. And I have not heard of mass lustrations in the Western military-industrial complex.
        1. +1
          31 October 2021 09: 16
          If embezzlement is the only thing for which our ships are built, and it is necessary to fight against embezzlement and embezzlers, and those who justify them are criminals like them, this time.
          The American fleet is combat-ready, unlike ours, these are two.
        2. +2
          1 November 2021 01: 02
          Have you noticed the rest of the list?

          However, nothing else can be expected from people like you.
  30. +2
    26 October 2021 14: 16
    But what is definitely not needed is the construction of new SSBNs.

    If in eight years, at the behest of the author of this article, a nuclear arctic fox begins, and by definition there will be no other world war, then what will one or two submarines be needed for? To develop autonomy, plant mines and shoot the whole crew?
    And why write these articles? Eight years and that's it. Nobody will read them.
    And if you are already dreaming of a nuclear arctic fox, then turn on the logic and think whether it makes sense to accuse the state of deliberately increasing the strategic component of the fleet to the detriment of the usual one?
    1. -1
      26 October 2021 16: 25
      I believe that nuclear submarines will become an excellent means of survival for mankind after a nuclear exchange of strikes on a par with large bunkers where everything you need will be.
    2. +3
      26 October 2021 19: 12
      And nothing that we have nothing to provide for deployment even for the SSBNs under construction?
      1. +2
        27 October 2021 06: 38
        Alexander, so can you still cut off the White Sea and the Shelikhov Bay with minefields (and even an anti-submarine network) and deploy SSBNs there?
        We will release all non-strategic nuclear submarines at once.
        Thank you for the article. Special thanks for the humor "does nothing bother you in your achievements?")
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 15: 49
          Beloye, yes, but in the Shelikhov Bay it is shallow, the boat is detected by an optical split and is easily destroyed by an air strike even with ordinary bombs, not to mention an SLBM with a nuclear charge.
          The White Sea is promising, but the Americans still climbed there.
      2. -1
        27 October 2021 16: 06
        The deployment of SSBNs is carried out in different ways, and they do not have to go far. And when the thunder breaks out, then there is no time for deployment. Then it is already necessary to shoot from the quay wall.
  31. 0
    26 October 2021 15: 19
    There is one more question:
    What about the training of the crew and the basing?
    The only way to win a protracted war is to have the appropriate basic infrastructure and personnel policy.
    1. -1
      27 October 2021 11: 59
      This war will not be protracted.
      1. -1
        27 October 2021 14: 05
        Well, who will win?
        Who will occupy and purge whom?
        Eh, Alexander! There were geniuses before you: "Soldiers! You will return home before the leaves fall from these linden trees!" (August 1914). But it turned out that home in November-December 1918, and the leaves have already flown around. "Modern weapons are so deadly that they make a great European war unthinkable" (1912). Well, yes, and then 1914 - 1918, and "we can repeat" 1939 - 1945.
        No, war is a serious thing, and if it is not possible to break the enemy immediately, then it will inevitably come to a competition of resources, but here everything is fine with the enemy: he has an advantage in territories and population. Even if China and Russia occupy all of Eurasia, they have the opportunity to expand the production of weapons and consumables around a world full of hungry laborers and cannon fodder (Canada, Mexico, Africa, South America, Australia). And there are two aspects here:
        1. The enemy should not be allowed to control the oceans.
        2. Large-scale land battles should not be allowed.
        Hence the role of the fleet (and strategic aviation) in the coming war is decisive.
        1. -1
          27 October 2021 15: 48
          Who will occupy and purge whom?
          Eh, Alexander! There were geniuses before you: "Soldiers! You will return home before the leaves fall from these linden trees!" (August 1914). But it turned out that home in November-December 1918, and the leaves have already flown around. "Modern weapons are so deadly that they make a great European war unthinkable" (1912). Well, yes, and then 1914 - 1918, and "we can repeat" 1939 - 1945.


          Are you familiar with the concept of an ultra-long military cycle? This was implicitly formulated in his time by V. Tsymbursky, the meaning is short - there are periods in history when opportunities for mobilization dominate, and there are periods when opportunities for destruction.

          Destruction capabilities dominate today. Any modified forces and resources are easily destroyed if there is political will.

          But in the nineteenth and first two thirds of the twentieth century. it was mobilization that dominated - it was possible to mobilize so much that any conceivable loss was covered.
          We need to understand the nature of war more deeply, comrade!
          1. +1
            27 October 2021 20: 25
            This is largely true as a model of a local conflict. The global conflict is beautiful because the boundary conditions are indefinable and the matrix has a huge number of combinations = countable, but not analyzed, number of solutions.
            No one will be able to use a full arsenal, a "survival margin" is needed, if something goes wrong, no one will predict the percentage of implementation in a particular situation (all the same boundary conditions). Total bombing weakened, but did not undermine, even such a compact target as the German industry in 1944. In the destroyed Hiroshima, there was a water supply system and trams (bridges, by the way, also survived). In the Chernobyl forests, animals are nowhere healthier.
            If the conflict is global, then the way out of it is not mythical "destruction", but the depletion of the forces of one of the opposing groups = an explosion from within (Germany and the allies in 1918). The trap is the illusion of the possibility of a partial retreat, an attempt to sit out in relative safety (insular instinct).
            Maybe I'm wrong, but most likely the coming war, after the exchange of strikes by the "strategists" and the failure to achieve the goals set at the same time, will slip into the traditional forms of waging war on land (brr!) And at sea, but with the use of the latest types of weapons. And these are resources and industrial potential. Well, and creativity in creating the notorious "wunderwaffe".
  32. +1
    26 October 2021 16: 41
    I am by no means an expert on submarines, but even my humble understanding of this topic is enough to see that the situation with their secrecy already looks rather depressing today. And by the 2030s, this trend will only get worse. Considering the superiority of the potential enemy in the air, the number and quality of the satellite constellation, the quantitative and qualitative superiority of the surface fleet and the presence-expansion of the chain of anti-submarine lines - and also the fact that on different geographic fronts of operations in these areas we compete not only with the United States, but also and with the third and sixth economies of the planet (at least) - and all these countries, as well as their satellites, will undoubtedly deepen the PLO, and will deepen the same, given the fall of our other capabilities as something to hurt them other than missile weapons (including from strategists) - taking into account all this, the option with thoughtless preservation of certain quantitative indicators at any cost, and hoping that this, as a kind of mantra, will save us from war or will work as needed in 10+ years - this is, in my opinion, optimism ..
    Submarines are, of course, very good, but if we want to survive in a future war, we should prepare for a game of all-in and raise the price of the counter-value potential of the beginning of such a conflict. Perhaps we should focus on the direction of anti-satellite weapons and the modernization of the ICBM specifically for counter-value actions, because in the event of a full-scale war, the enemy will in any case disable our large industrial clusters, which are also the focus of our active demography. It would be better to reorient the freed up resources from the submarine to the needs of the development of the submarine - both sensor circuits and, in particular, the air component.
    Our nuclear submarines are in any case too large a target, given the enemy's dominance at sea and in the air. He uses his naval forces for overwhelming control-superiority in the most dangerous areas - and this either blocks or destroys the capabilities of our submarine component. The possibilities of its impact on the PGRK are somewhat smaller, and in combination with much better capabilities for stealth imitation in this area, I see PGRK as much more attractive means for guaranteed containment, with much lower costs for creation and operation.
    In the future, however (but probably beyond the borders of the 2030s), I see that large missile weapons will become obsolete - already now there is inexorable progress in the means of detection and guidance, LA, small spacecraft interceptors (a la "diamond pebbles") and their massed launch - and hypersonic interceptor missiles are also being developed. Taking into account the rates on missile weapons of both the PRC, the DPRK, Iran, etc., the relevance of missile defense developments for the United States will inevitably increase, taking into account their means, the creation of effective tools is only a matter of time.

    I will end my thought by expressing a point of view - the future war is NOT NECESSARILY the war that will affect us. Graters of our capital and interests into geopolitics. arena and the capitalist interests of the United States - immeasurably less than their grating with the rising China. If we do not support the PRC in the growth of escalation and will not be on the conditional "their side" - it is possible that BB3 will carry us past - if the Japanese card does not "burst", of course. With the exception of the United States-Japan-China and locally in Turkey, at the moment I do not see any particular enthusiasm for the power options for resolving global contradictions from other players. If we conduct a reasonable diplomatic game in the west and strengthen the surface of the Pacific Fleet together with the aircraft of the Far East, if we make it clear to Japan that in the event of a conflict, we will stretch it as far as possible and will try with all our might to inflict maximum damage on the metropolis, in this case we will not I exclude that a big war can bypass us.
  33. 0
    26 October 2021 17: 53
    The author of the case is gutarite! I support the conclusions and suggestions of the author !!!
  34. 0
    26 October 2021 19: 24
    Well, we sort of figured it out with the surface fleet. The Zircon protects us. And now an interesting analysis with the submarine fleet. And its prospects. I hope you don’t start that our Poseidon will be our everything? bully(I'm not the author of the article) This is me for the public.
    The article is definitely a plus!
  35. -2
    26 October 2021 21: 02
    The author is still a great optimist, I personally doubt that we will commission another 7 Ash-M during this decade. I think that 5 units is the maximum, since Voronezh and Vladivostok were laid down only in the middle of 2020 (the rest of the boats under construction in 2013-2017 were laid down).
  36. -4
    26 October 2021 22: 13
    And just to join NATO - there is not enough brains, or the point is playing - to be left without an arms race and tasty applications?
    1. +1
      27 October 2021 11: 58
      Then it is necessary to bring elves into NATO, who eat rainbows and poop with butterflies, otherwise these, who are now, are some kind of evil.
  37. +5
    27 October 2021 01: 28
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    And then with lips, then on the Sea, anyone can,
    What, girls of easy virtue are already in the open ... right on the Sea ... using sponges !? - Damn, how low morals have fallen!
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    and you essentially object.

    With your permission. hi
    1. At what time did MEDIUM repair period third generation nuclear powered ships? A case not for the "blessed 90s" and zero? And how was it THEN with denyushki? Don't you remember, dear, the Council Council's decision on the redistribution of budget quotas in favor of the Aerospace Forces / Strategic Missile Forces !? And the Navy was then asked to "wait" a little ... For the Strategic Missile Forces to re-equip with new ICBMs was more important for the country's defense capability than to averagely repair the third-generation submarine / RPK SN.
    But the author is modestly silent about this: - not profitable, not in a vein, not in a string of bast ... This time.
    2. About technology transfer to India 885 project... On this issue - consult with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, Article 275. Your proposal fits entirely into it ...
    3. Why universal APRK 885 / 885M project can't solve PLO problems !? Let me remind those who did not serve in the navy that even the RPK SN worked out the PLO mission (and they seemed to be far from this!)
    Therefore - not a fact!
    4. Why the ASH concept is outdated, if according to it the States are going to build their VIRGINIA Block-5? And not a drop is not embarrassed! Yes, realizing the growing threat from our submarine, they will build their SSN (X) with a bias on the PLB. Well, our 545 will also be PLO-shnoy.
    5. Yes, no one denies there are many problems in the navy. And they are all painful. But to say that they are not being solved is fundamentally wrong!
    6. About NPA "Poseidon" I have spoken out many times. I will not repeat myself, but I will say one thing: none of the underwater systems we are creating has brought such dissonance / discomfort to the leadership of the US Navy. This is a serious threat to the national security of the United States, the localization of which is still the Pentagon's concern. And the politicians demanded a ban! As far as I remember, they did not fuss about Borey and Ash. And why would it be if POSEIDONS, according to the author, are bullshit !?
    7. About the third generation of PLA. It is really lost for the fleet, how sad it is to admit it. But the point is that the calculations showed the economic inexpediency of their modernization, tk. it is more expedient (in terms of service life) to build new submarines using new technologies - quieter ones, with new, higher performance characteristics.
    And for analytics and tables Thanks to the author. They are visual and convincing. But they look BACK, not the future. And "in the carriage of the past", as the classic said, you won't go far!
    Sincerely, Boa.
    1. +3
      27 October 2021 14: 03
      1. What was the period of the MEDIUM repair of the third generation of nuclear-powered ships? A case not for the "blessed 90s" and zero? And how was it THEN with denyushki?


      2009-2013. Then there was money, and projects, and then the rat tore one place for itself in order to prevent this, and did not allow it.

      2. On the transfer of technologies to India of the 885 project ... On this issue - consult with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, Article 275. Your proposal fits entirely into it ...


      Well, why, the T-90 was handed over to them, they even localized the B-92 engine, and I even tried to smuggle a batch of these engines into Iran, for their Carrars. But the Indians pulled from their side)))
      Nobody says that it is JUST to transfer. In exchange for something meaningful to convey.
      To withdraw from the anti-Chinese coalition, for example, to a settlement in Ladakh, which will allow us to continue cooperation with both India and China without problems, and greatly weaken the position of the Americans.

      3. Why is the universal APRK 885 / 885M project not able to solve PLO problems !?


      Because it cannot destroy the submarines of the US Navy and the KVMS of Great Britain - the weapons are not the right one, the SDRP are not the same and there are no anti-torpedoes, the low-noise speed is low, there are no onboard antennas of the SAC (except for Severodvinsk), it has nothing to receive an early reflected signal from below, to measure the distance there is nothing to the target on the side of a pair of three antennas like Virginia, plus high-altitude visibility by non-acoustic means, again due to the size.
      This is at a minimum.

      4. Why is the ASH concept outdated, if the States are going to build their Virginia Block-5 according to it?


      The states do not need to fight the US Navy.

      6. About NPA "Poseidon" I have repeatedly spoken out. I will not repeat myself, but I will say one thing: none of the underwater systems we are creating has brought such dissonance / discomfort to the leadership of the US Navy.


      Not really.

      7. About the third generation of PLA. It is really lost for the fleet, how sad it is to admit it. But the point is that the calculations showed the economic inexpediency of their modernization, tk. it is more expedient (in terms of service life) to build new submarines using new technologies


      I will answer with the words of Elena Sergeevna Wenzel: "this is the father of the country who is capable of losing the war inexpensively."
      You look at my plates - this is the result of calculations, 8 new submarines + 2 modernized ones (Leopard and Irkutsk) + Cheetah dying without repairs against the USA, Great Britain, Australia and Japan.

      Can you see how it ended?

      As for the lost generation, the titanium and the Cheetah were never lost until the 40s, if you take care of them, the Leopard reaches the early thirties, Irkutsk is a little more.
      1. +2
        27 October 2021 15: 44
        Let me remind those who did not serve in the Navy that even the RPK SN worked out the PLO mission (and they seemed to be far from this!)
        Therefore - not a fact!


        The staff from the gallery threw a note that no, they did not work out, only torpedo attacks and duels with the MPLA. But PLO is not.
        As they say, well, sorry.
  38. 0
    27 October 2021 10: 56
    Probably all the same, you should not dream of dreaming about a distant ocean zone, with a good PLO for opponents, it is better to stay in the near sea with the task of preventing high landing forces along with the coast. Defense
    1. 0
      27 October 2021 13: 53
      We need to disrupt the missile strike. Where it can be applied from is roughly shown in the last part.
    2. 0
      27 October 2021 14: 08
      Blind defense is the path to inevitable defeat.
      1. +2
        27 October 2021 15: 43
        There are no options. And this is not really a defense, but rather a preemptive action.
        1. 0
          27 October 2021 15: 51
          Yes, I did not mind you, but svoit:
          it is better to stay in the near sea with the task of preventing high landing forces along with the coast. Defense

          It is necessary to preempt, moreover, it is necessary to attack, prudently into vulnerable spots, pulling the enemy to prepared positions.
      2. 0
        27 October 2021 15: 54
        I'll add two kopecks
        with equal combat load. single-hull submarines have been and will be smaller in size, as a result they are more secretive, will be faster in construction, will be easier to repair and naturally cheaper than double-hull, and even one-and-a-half, no one in the world has built nuclear submarines in two hulls, and plans ,.
  39. +2
    27 October 2021 16: 02
    In general, the situation is now even sadder, since not all of the boats listed are currently in use.
    Two 945A are running, and they will be written off by 2030

    I'm not sure that at least one of them "runs".
    Well, by 2030, only newly built ones will remain from the submarine fleet. The question of the war remains open by this date, and in 2030 we will ask the author questions if he missed.
    What will we do with admirals in 2030? Export to Ukraine or India? Entire divisions will be decommissioned.
    1. +2
      27 October 2021 21: 19
      One 945A last year in the Norwegian Sea ran exactly.
      1. +1
        28 October 2021 12: 31
        One 945A last year in the Norwegian Sea ran exactly.

        The key word is "in the past".
  40. 0
    27 October 2021 16: 06
    The kabzda is shorter. Prosperity in power has done their dirty deed. NATO or the Chinese will finish it.
  41. -8
    27 October 2021 18: 45
    Does anyone think that Timokhin and Klimov are the same person? Uniform material feeding i.e. dumping a huge pile of information slag - mourning the Russian submarine fleet and the impending war. This energy (mental) and into a peaceful channel
    1. +3
      27 October 2021 21: 20
      Timokhin and Klimov are different people.

      And where is the slag? Is there anything in the article regarding subfloor that would be wrong?
  42. -3
    27 October 2021 20: 35
    Sorry, the article is certainly great. Just one question. The author says there will be war in the 2030s. Whom with whom? Who is going to attack the Russian Federation there?

    And most importantly, for what purposes, and what do they want to get or prevent as a result of this war?
    1. +1
      29 October 2021 22: 13
      The fleet is built not only for war, but to a greater extent so that it will not happen. The likely enemy also knows how to count pennants, knows the performance characteristics and knows how to calculate the risks. If he considers that with minimal losses he will be able to deliver a disarming blow, then at least the rhetoric in the negotiations will become tougher and they will stop reckoning with us altogether. As much as they can apply it.
  43. 0
    27 October 2021 21: 41
    Pathetic human race, our battlecruisers will arrive any minute as soon as they are scouting. probes orbiting your planet will report. We at RENTW will not let you destroy this planet. Ha ha ha ha.
  44. -1
    29 October 2021 21: 27
    I see no reason to panic. That there are now 5-6 MPSS for 2 theaters in service, that in 10 years it will be so. Only in terms of performance is better. I even liked the author's plates with the proposed composition of the nuclear submarine divisions in the 2030s. In comparison with the analogy that is now .... You look at Wikipedia - it seems like a lot, you will go to the port - here they are all 971 ... 10 years of VTG are waiting on an asterisk. And they were praised in terms of their performance characteristics. All pikes are noisy buckets with nuts. They are thundering all over Barents. Take the devil out of the fleet to grandmother.
    1. +1
      11 November 2021 09: 30
      And they were praised in terms of performance characteristics. All pikes are noisy buckets with nuts. They are thundering all over Barents.


      This is if they are not repaired
      1. 0
        14 November 2021 19: 12
        971 projects in Severodvinsk were built in the 90s. Lack of money, staff scattered. Hence the build quality. And a lot more depends on the crew. At the beginning of the 2000s, the quietest boat on the Northern Fleet was the 667BDR "Ryazan". The mechanic was a tough owner there. Timely service by the crew was rare in those days. Because, probably, the boat is still in service. KBCH-5 this monument should be erected. I do not know the full name. Maybe someone remembers who was fur there in 2003-4?
        1. +1
          14 November 2021 20: 47
          Ryazan is no longer in service. And the names in the internet do not need to shine.
  45. +1
    30 October 2021 11: 04
    I agree with the author that the Soviet-era nuclear submarines should be treated more carefully, in a businesslike manner. Especially to several still living titanium sides, and to revive them with new weapons. But I have doubts that they are competently referring to the "sludge ships" in the Navy. The contingent there, the command and the l / s, is written off there more doltbay than on the submarine of the first line.
  46. 0
    30 October 2021 12: 29
    We in the Navy have problems not only with submarine but also with surface ships, building ships of rank 2 and 3, ships of rank 1 are only being repaired, and then it takes longer than they were built, with anti-submarine aviation in general it is a problem, our fleet does not have the forces and means of reconnaissance even for the minimum acceptable level. The existing system is capable of providing observation only in the water areas adjacent to our coast and in separate, relatively small in size, operationally important sections of the far sea zone. The composition of the Soviet Navy had a fairly effective system. It had passive (radio) and active (radar reconnaissance) satellites. This system provided surveillance of surface ships of other states on a global scale. By now, our fleet has lost this system, and a new one is just being created, but it will take years.
  47. -1
    30 October 2021 15: 01
    Our strategy is in unacceptable retaliation against the enemy, not in a war with nuclear weapons. 1 boat has 16 missiles, 10 blocks in each, this is at least 80 cities destroyed in the trash, and this is a lot even for America, but if 2-3-4-5 survives ?. The same Poseidons have unlimited range, that is, they can be released not only from boats, but also, for example, from secret bases, which in my opinion is quite realistic, since our army has always been distinguished by non-routine behavior. The same kostroma on the sludge are you sure that it is not charged? or that it cannot be charged? ) Landmines near Washington myth or reality? ) How many unaccounted blocks and missiles are in our country? ) What will happen if the nuclear power plant built by us starts to explode, etc. etc. ).
  48. 0
    30 October 2021 19: 52
    Thanks to the author for the article and for the great work done
  49. +1
    30 October 2021 22: 02
    Excellent literate article. Well, we don't have a modern fleet. That which is can only demonstrate the flag as it sounds in the doctrine and that's it. Sawing the budget and imitation of the violent activity of throwing money into projects and populism.
  50. 0
    30 October 2021 23: 21
    All this mess with the nuclear submarine in the United States and everywhere is nothing more than money. Cutting the budget.
  51. 0
    31 October 2021 18: 51
    My clear opinion. We are in dire need of mass production: up to 4-10 submarines (preferably fully automated) with a displacement of up to 2000,0 tons in the nuclear version with homogeneous lead-bismuth reactors, which would carry 8-10 units each on combat duty off the coast of the main potential enemy, and also approximately the same, or better yet twice the number of anaerobic boats, which our glorious “Malachite” stubbornly refuses to master - I would drive them all into “Sharashka.” "Poseidon" is even needed for intimidation - what if it breaks through. There is another option to deliver these relatively small boats by dock ships. There is no point in building large boats like the glorious "Ash" - the author is absolutely right about repairs. On Judgment Day they are absolutely useless for protecting the RKPSN
  52. 0
    1 November 2021 17: 23
    Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
    And in an economic way, can't Russia strangle the United States? We have the 5th economy in the world. Only nuclear war? There is no alternative?
    It’s a one-goal game: we give them gold and other more important resources (for example, aluminum and uranium are now going there for next to nothing), and they answer us: trillions of digital candy wrappers. This is how we fight... =)))
  53. The comment was deleted.
  54. The comment was deleted.
  55. 0
    27 November 2021 14: 52
    The article in general is quite expected))) nothing new. But, as one smart person once said: “Everything is known by comparison.” The mattress fleet is now “killing” the resource of its ships, including submarines, at an accelerated pace - in the confrontation with China. The planned decommissioning of the "Moose" is underway, just this week there was information about the decommissioning of the "Oklahoma", and the unscheduled decommissioning of the "Connecticut". There is no decision on it yet. After a detailed examination, they may write it off. In light of the latest scandal regarding the supply of substandard steel for the manufacture of boat hulls, perhaps the decommissioning of nuclear submarines will be “more fun.” Therefore, we are waiting for the author’s article on the state of mattress sub-floating in 2030.
  56. 0
    1 December 2021 13: 54
    But the “Barracudas” and “Condors” could well not only be repaired and modernized, but rebuilt to a high level of combat effectiveness, precisely because of their hulls


    Christmas trees.. While I was reading, I kept asking... And when I got to the “correct” sentence, I was suddenly surprised and delighted))
    IMHO, letting titanium cases go on pins and needles is the maximum blasphemy that one can imagine.
    The only thing I don’t agree with is that they shouldn’t be made multi-purpose. With minimal expenditure on weapon systems, you can get quite a formidable version of the PLO. The new GAK plus countermeasures and optimal torpedo armament in a complex with reduced visibility will solve up to 50% of the problems with bringing SSBNs into position and countering the deployment of US SSBNs in “known areas.”
  57. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      4 January 2022 15: 42
      Make smaller boats, and more in number, a small boat with one large missile, with great energy and a long range, and the question will be closed, small boats are much faster and cheaper to build and operate, and they will be secretive.
  58. 0
    6 January 2022 15: 57
    Timokhin agent. Clearly he writes at the behest of the CIA. See Wikipedia. The purpose of this article is to extract information from the comments for the CIA.