Military Review

The choice of weapons in the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan: aviation and navy

85

Speaking about the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, we will not now consider who is right and who is wrong in it. Each side will have their own arguments and objections. We are interested in the purely military aspect of the Armenia / Nagorno-Karabakh-Azerbaijan / Turkey confrontation.


In last year's article "Does Venezuela have a chance to resist the US armed aggression?" we considered what weapon can be considered optimal for a relatively weak state to be able to withstand an order of magnitude stronger adversary. The “strong against the weak” situation develops quite often: the USA against Iraq, the USA against Yugoslavia, the USA against Vietnam. It is characteristic that the second participant in military actions of the "strong against the weak" type is almost always the United States.

One of the key factors allowing a weaker adversary to count on victory is the moral resilience of the armed forces, population and leadership of the country. The most striking example of such resilience can be considered Vietnam, on which the United States dropped 2,5 times more bombs than on Germany during World War II.


Vietnam War statistics

Nevertheless, the most important factor of victory is the weapons and weapons used by opponents: victory cannot be achieved by fighting spirit alone. The military budget of most countries of the world is rather severely limited, and the smaller the state and its economic capabilities, the more responsible it is necessary to approach the development of the armed forces, especially in conditions when there is a direct and obvious threat of war.

The ratio of opportunities


Both countries, Armenia and Azerbaijan, understand the risk of a military conflict over the disputed territories, which is why the armed forces of both countries receive increased attention: their defense spending as a percentage of GDP is comparable.


Armenia and Azerbaijan spend about the same percentage of GDP on defense

However, Azerbaijan has a significantly higher GDP compared to Armenia, primarily due to the possession of significant volumes of oil and gas, the implementation of which allows it to have a military budget that significantly exceeds the military budget of Armenia in monetary terms.

The choice of weapons in the confrontation between Armenia and Azerbaijan: aviation and navy
The military budget of Azerbaijan is 4-7 times higher than the military budget of Armenia

And the military capabilities of Armenia and Azerbaijan become completely incomparable in the context of a possible direct participation in the military conflict of Turkey. Even if it never comes to a direct military invasion of Armenia by Turkey, the supply of intelligence data, weapons, military equipment and ammunition to Azerbaijan is most likely going on actively now, given the aggressive and provocative position of Turkish President Recep Erdogan in this conflict and openly made by him statements of full and unconditional support for Azerbaijan.


Azerbaijan and Turkey in the ranking of military expenditures of the countries of the world

Thus, Armenia with a military budget of about $ 500 million is in fact opposed to Azerbaijan and Turkey with a combined military budget of about $ 10-20 billion.

Turkey will not be able to throw all its forces on Armenia, given its involvement in conflicts in Syria and Libya, the potential for a conflict with Greece and punitive operations against the Kurds in Iraq, but the remaining resources of the Turkish armed forces will pose a significant threat to Armenia.

All of the above requires Armenia to spend the military budget as efficiently and productively as possible. The question is, is this really so? And the second question, which is essentially the first: what kind of weapons does Armenia need to successfully confront Azerbaijan and Turkey?

Fleet


Fleet Armenia does not. And where does it come from if Armenia has no outlet to the sea? Nevertheless, it would not hurt to have some of its equivalent in Armenia.

First of all, we are talking about intelligence vessels disguised as civilian vessels, possibly acquired or leased, and operating under the flags of other countries. These vessels, located in the Caspian and Black Seas, can perform the function of monitoring the actions of the naval forces (Navy) of Azerbaijan and Turkey, and conduct radio intelligence.

Of course, in the Caspian Sea this is possible only with the open or, rather, the tacit consent of one or several countries that have access to the Caspian Sea: Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan or Iran. In the Black Sea, the opportunities are wider, in addition to the countries of the Black Sea basin, Armenia can cooperate in this matter with natural Turkish antagonists, for example, with Greece.

Of course, the task of conducting reconnaissance at sea is not a priority for Armenia, but it becomes much more urgent in the context of the second possibility - the creation of reconnaissance and sabotage units of combat swimmers.

In the Caspian Sea, Azerbaijan has a navy, including missile boats, patrol ships and boats, minesweepers and landing ships, and even midget submarines. Azerbaijan needs the fleet to defend its national interests in the exploration and production of oil and gas located on the shelf of the Caspian Sea.


Ships of the Azerbaijani Navy

It is difficult to say how well the security of the Azerbaijani naval vessels stationed in the base, as well as gas and oil production facilities, is well established, but this potentially gives Armenia the opportunity to carry out sabotage measures against these facilities. In addition, reconnaissance and sabotage units operating from the Caspian Sea can gain access to a much larger number of objects than is possible from the territory of Armenia, the border with which Azerbaijan is likely to be heavily guarded.

The main task of reconnaissance and sabotage activities carried out from the Caspian Sea will not be the destruction of the enemy's military force, but the objects of the oil and gas sector, which provide for the receipt of significant financial resources that can be used to strengthen the armed forces of Azerbaijan.

It will be much more difficult to carry out something like this against Turkey, since the level of equipment of their naval forces and training of personnel is much higher than that of the navy of Azerbaijan, but this possibility cannot be completely ruled out.

The construction of the Armenian naval forces in this format will not be financially burdensome, but at the same time it can become a fairly effective means of influence. Even if the enemy (Azerbaijan) finds out about this, then his costs for countering the threat of actions from reconnaissance and sabotage units will significantly exceed the costs of the Armenian side for its creation.

Aviation


Armenia has 4 Su-30SM fighters, 8 more units have been ordered. The dimensions of Armenia (roughly) are 150x300 kilometers. Why they need fighters with a range of 4000 kilometers is a great secret. No, of course, there is some chance that the Su-30SM group will strike deep into the territory of Azerbaijan, but, most likely, the sky of Armenia is completely controlled by Turkish AWACS aircraft, and all Su-30SMs, at best, will be shot down right over the territory of Armenia ( at least, at least the pilots have a chance to escape), otherwise they will be destroyed by the air defense (air defense) of Azerbaijan, warned in advance by the Turkish side.

No less realistic is the scenario of the destruction of these aircraft by guided weapons right on the ground, there is simply nowhere to hide them at the airfield in such a small country.

The cost of one Su-30SM for the Russian Armed Forces (AF) is about $ 50 million, i.e. the cost of 14 aircraft will be about $ 600 million - more than the annual budget of the Armenian Armed Forces. This is not counting the cost of weapons for them, the cost of ground equipment and the cost of operation.

Also, the Armenian Air Force has 12 Su-25 aircraft, the use of which in the conflict with Azerbaijan is also likely to lead to their destruction. The best solution for Armenia at the current stage would be to overtake them to the territory of a friendly country to ensure safety. The same should be done with the only available MiG-25 interceptor fighter, if it is still flying. Similarly, it is advisable to overtake the existing 15 Mi-24 helicopters to another country, or at least disperse them over camouflaged airfields, if, of course, all of the above is not too late due to the complete control of the skies of Armenia by Turkey.


In the confrontation with Azerbaijan and Turkey, the "classical" air forces of Armenia are doomed to destruction

What kind of aircraft are needed for the Armenian Air Force? These are UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles), UAVs and again UAVs.

First of all, these are small and ultra-small aircraft. The former are necessary to adjust artillery fire and aim high-precision ammunition with a semi-active laser homing head, and the latter to provide the armed forces with at least some intelligence information in the absence of other "eyes" in the sky.


The ultra-small Russian UAVs "Eleron-3" and "Orlan-10" can be effectively used for reconnaissance and adjusting artillery fire


Small UAVs "Orion-30" are capable of guiding high-precision projectiles with semi-active laser guidance

Several hundred UAVs of this type would bring the Armenian Armed Forces much more benefit than heavy Su-30SM fighters and all the rest of the available aviation.

As a means of inflicting strikes at great depths, the best solution would be to purchase a number of medium-sized UAVs, similar to the well-known American MQ-9 Reaper UAV ("Reaper"). The problem is that in Russia the development of such UAVs is only entering the final stage. Russian UAVs of medium size and weapons for them have not yet been developed, serial production has not been deployed.


Russian medium-sized UAVs "Orion" and "Altius" ("Altair") have not yet entered the stage of mass production

Israel supplies UAVs to Azerbaijan, and it is not a fact that it will agree to work with Armenia. There is also China, which is actively developing the direction of the UAV. In particular, the medium-sized UAV Wing Loong, capable of striking with aerial bombs and air-to-ground missiles, is mass-produced.


Chinese reconnaissance and strike UAV Wing Loong MALE class


Chinese guided missiles AKD-10 (top) and BRM1 (bottom), which can be used with UAV Wing Loong

According to Reuters, the cost of one Wing Loong UAV is $ 1 million. Even if the actual cost turns out to be several times higher, then Armenia can easily afford a dozen of such aircraft.

In fact, this is all that can be useful to the Armenian Air Force from what it can afford.

In the next article, we will consider samples of weapons for the air defense and ground forces of Armenia, which can be effective in the confrontation with Azerbaijan.
Author:
Photos used:
bmpd.livejournal.com, topwar.ru
Articles from this series:
Does Venezuela have a chance to resist the US armed aggression??
What can it be? Conventional war scenarios
Outsourcing War
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Asad
    Asad 5 October 2020 05: 50
    +6
    Fly planes to a friendly country! And who is Yerevan's friend !? And I will add, if the planes cost like the budget of Armenia, what are the gifts again? All right, money for defense is a sacred thing for myself! They themselves are not very rich, his wife jokes sadly, and soon there will be 100 oiro pension.
    1. stas
      stas 6 October 2020 12: 35
      +6
      I wish the Armenians and Azerbaijanis victory over each other to the last UAV!
      They will have this war forever as long as Turkey exists!
      But we will test our UAVs.
  3. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 5 October 2020 05: 52
    +5
    If my grandmother was a grandfather ... In the war of survival, it is useless to measure with pipis, which confirms the current state of the war in Karabakh. With a huge advantage in resources, technical equipment, freedom of maneuver and surprise attack from Azerbaijan, the defense of Karabakh survived. The blitzkrieg was not helped by either Turkey's help or the "holy cause" of liberating "their" land. People! Some are fighting according to plan, while others, for their lives.
    1. Bakinec
      Bakinec 5 October 2020 06: 25
      13
      Except for Armenian users, no one talks about blitzkrieg. What a blitzkrieg in Karabakh. There are mountains and forests. There is a methodical destruction of equipment and resources of Armenians. And then positions are seized with minimal human losses.
      1. Vladimir61
        Vladimir61 5 October 2020 06: 59
        +3
        Quote: Bakinec
        Except for Armenian users, no one talks about blitzkrieg. What a blitzkrieg in Karabakh.

        A planned surprise attack always pursues one goal - a blitzkrieg.
        Blitzkrieg (lightning war) is a method of waging a fleeting war, according to which victory is achieved in a short time, calculated in days, weeks or months, before the enemy can mobilize and deploy its main military forces.

        This is for Russia, the Germans planned a blitzkrieg for months, but here it is calculated for days, maximum weeks. But, something went wrong!

        Quote: Bakinec
        Going methodical destruction technology and resources of Armenians... And then positions are seized with minimal human losses.
        Resources, write? And what is hidden behind this word? If you do not understand what you wrote, then type "genocide" in the search and read what it is characterized by.
        As for the "Armenian" or "Azerbaijani" preferences, a normal person is always on the side of the one who was attacked. It is not peoples who are fighting, but politicians, but mostly ordinary people are dying.
        1. strannik1985
          strannik1985 5 October 2020 07: 46
          10
          This is for Russia

          Not really, the manner of fighting is more similar to the actions of the federal troops in 1999-2001, multiple fire damage and relatively slow progress. And that is not without excesses.
        2. Bakinec
          Bakinec 5 October 2020 10: 01
          -2
          Yes, you know what mountains are, especially in Karabakh, from the Azerbaijani positions to the border of Armenia, these are continuous stairs from the mountains. No one in such a situation conducts an operation - a blitzkrieg, this is not 1941 and not Russian fields.
          And a resource is a resource - weapons depots, manpower, delivery infrastructure. Stop attaching your genocide to everything. If someone looks askance at the Armenians, immediately shout - help the genocide. Everyone is sick of it.
          As for the "Armenian" or "Azeri" preferences - the affected party is Azerbaijan, in which (I repeat) territories are occupied.
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 5 October 2020 19: 22
            +3
            Quote: Bakinec
            As for the "Armenian" or "Azeri" preferences - the affected party is Azerbaijan, in which (I repeat) territories are occupied.

            You can occupy, return the territories of Azerbaijan, Armenia, and for one thing and Georgia - Russia, as the legal successor of the former USSR, as the real historical owner of these territories.
            And that's all. All interethnic and territorial problems are removed.
            And, all the local riffraff, with a broom.
      2. Airdefense
        Airdefense 5 October 2020 12: 04
        +6
        Judging by the video from the Armenian side, Azerbaijan also suffers serious losses in equipment and people, and if you count the losses of Armenians from UAVs, they will not be directly very critical at the moment in the context of the defense of Karabakh. That is exactly what the Armenians should have done all this time, it is to bite into the mountains, build underground communications.
        Drones alone will not succeed in a quick victory, in Syria the militants did not have any air defense or aviation at all, but they had to smoke them for a very long time, with the involvement of a huge number of resources.
    2. Vasya Lozhkin
      Vasya Lozhkin 10 October 2020 08: 07
      0
      The Azerbaijanis do not need a blitzkrieg. Only a few "analysts" on TV keep repeating about him. With that area, it is unrealistic to crush all the fortified areas in a week. A couple of months of hostilities, knocking out equipment at the current pace and Artsakh kaput. Pashinyan has already changed the rhetoric and confirmed the negotiations. Another thing is that Baku does not believe him because Pasha Telefonyan did not say the key phrase: "I swear by my mother" and "speaks his teeth." Pashinyan's numerous phone calls to Putin, tantrums about "the last barrier of Christians before the Ottomans", "if not the Armenians, then the Turks will be at the borders of Austria" and attempts to translate the conflict as opposition to religion suggest that the Armenians "smell of fried." Still, at the current rate of fighting, the loss and consumption of ammunition, then the Armenians are doing deplorable.
    3. gsev
      gsev 25 November 2020 02: 34
      0
      Quote: Vladimir61
      If grandmother were grandfather ...

      Azerbaijan has long been fruitfully working with Israel in the production of Israeli drones. Therefore, in contact with Jews in this country, they realized that the drone is a valuable weapon. I will assume that it was even the Azerbaijanis who advised the Turkish military to take a closer look at drones and choose the best option for their production and tactical use.
  4. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 5 October 2020 05: 58
    +5
    Armenians should be well punished for their Russophobia. Neher was to ride on the Maidan in 2018 for the little Pashinyan the Soros with Russophobic slogans. Russophobia should be expensive, very expensive.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zt7EI46vSk
    1. Slon1978
      Slon1978 5 October 2020 07: 46
      -3
      I will answer you like this. Firstly, the aggressor here is clearly Azerbaijan and the Armenians should be supported only for this reason. Secondly, I personally think that a completely neutral "all-round" N. Pashinyan is much cheaper for Russia than a "pro-Russian" one, for example, A.G. Lukashenko, whose loyalty we have to pay for many years with internal Russian prices for energy resources. trade incentives, low-interest (and virtually non-repayable) loans. And in return to receive his endless antics, twisting hands and hints "that I will go to the blacksmith" if you do not pay. He did not recognize Crimea, periodically plays the anti-Russian card inside the country, does not put pressure on anti-Russian nationalists. Believe me, the West will calm down a little with anti-Lukashenskaya rhetoric, Alexander Grigorievich will again start throwing stones at Russia. It's that hedgehog ... Such "friends" are too expensive, it's better to have a more or less neutral Pashinyan. He at least asks nothing, or asks, then a little.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 5 October 2020 08: 14
        13
        Even if Azerbaijan is the aggressor, what has Russia to do with it? What is the benefit for Russia from protecting Armenia? Why should Russia spoil relations with Azerbaijan, which does not pursue a Russophobic policy, unlike Armenia? In foreign policy, Russia should act exclusively in its own interests, and not in the interests of other countries. We all know perfectly well how in 1914 Russia got into an absolutely unnecessary war for the sake of the "brothers", and what tragic consequences this aid had for the "brothers". There is no need to repeat the mistakes of the past.
        1. Slon1978
          Slon1978 5 October 2020 08: 45
          +4
          Russia is not going anywhere yet, actually. As far as I understand, while the conflict is limited to the territory of the NKR, which is not covered by the CSTO treaty (that is, de jure is the territory of Azerbaijan), our country is inactive. And Azerbaijan also understands that it is better not to shoot at the territory of Armenia. On the whole, it is a correct line - to limit the conflict to the territory of the NKR.
          1. ender
            ender 5 October 2020 09: 23
            10
            Slon1978 (Sergey) Today, 07:46 New
            I will answer you like this. First, the aggressor here is clearly Azerbaijan.

            Slon1978 (Sergey) Today, 08:45 New
            .. the conflict is limited to the territory of the NKR, which is not covered by the CSTO agreement (i.e. de jure is the territory of Azerbaijan)

            again the aggressor attacked its own territory ..
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 21
              +4
              there are no more right and wrong, everyone has a stigma in the cannon.
              by the criteria of truth or rightness in this conflict, you can only get a new war.
              The issue can be resolved constructively only from an objectively humanitarian approach - without showing off states and the beard of history - only how people can really live better, but so far both sides are not going to do it. Each, to one degree or another, promotes nationalist (= read the interests of their wealthy elite) interests. And any decision in this vein is only temporary, which in no way changes the presence of a conflict. And even if Azerbaijan squeezes NK without a single sacrifice from Armenia, this will not solve the conflict in any way - it will be continued at the local level, which will lead to a new uprising and separatism. And all this will constantly walk alongside the beginning of outright genocide as the final solution to the issue.
              Until motives and goals change, the conflict will not disappear.
        2. paul3390
          paul3390 5 October 2020 11: 14
          +4
          What is the benefit for Russia from protecting Armenia? Why should Russia spoil relations with Azerbaijan, which does not pursue a Russophobic policy, unlike Armenia?

          If not for the presence of the Ottomans, you would be absolutely right. But if Azerbaijan wins, the Turks will settle down in the Caspian Sea ... But neither we, nor Iran categorically need this ...
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 5 October 2020 16: 35
            -7
            And what is the trouble for us from the appearance of the Turks in the Caspian? Turks will land troops in Derbent, Makhachkala or Astrakhan?
        3. Gloomy skeptic
          Gloomy skeptic 5 October 2020 15: 09
          0
          in 1914 Russia got into an absolutely unnecessary war for the sake of the "brothers", and what tragic consequences this aid had for the "brothers". There is no need to repeat the mistakes of the past.
          Unfortunately, the dementia of Russian politics is a difficult and long-term treatment.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 5 October 2020 16: 36
            0
            It's good that Nikolasha was shot. At least one villain in power got what he deserved.
      2. SaLaR
        SaLaR 5 October 2020 20: 58
        0
        Well, how can it be without Father ... It is interesting in the world that at least something happens where Father is not weave)))))) Trump is also seen Father with a crown infected))))
  5. Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 5 October 2020 06: 02
    26
    I only read up to the moment when the author recommended Armenia to have its own combat swimmers ... and realized that the author had no idea what an army is, what a theater of operations is, etc ... but only read about the war in books. Why do we need such articles ???
    1. Gloomy skeptic
      Gloomy skeptic 5 October 2020 15: 10
      0
      What do you mean why? Don't you know the word "loot"? It is because of him that these and those articles are written because of him, and no one talks about the ability to move their brains in principle.
    2. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 5 October 2020 16: 12
      +3
      Yes, it was cool about combat swimmers.
      I can say from the same series that it was necessary to develop the combat units of market traders, for what? to destroy the market traders of the opposite side in third countries, undermining the enemy's economy!
    3. Eug
      Eug 10 October 2020 17: 25
      0
      Any country where there will be a base for such swimmers becomes a participant in the war, in fact, at the request of Armenia. I understand that the article means first of all Iran, but does he need it?
  6. Bakinec
    Bakinec 5 October 2020 06: 22
    +1
    What kind of drawing was attached to the article? They say Turkey and Azerbaijan squeeze poor Armenia and some kind of rag next to it from both sides. What is Armenianophilia on this site. Is this site also owned by Simonyan? This poor Armenia occupied 20% of the territory of Azerbaijan, turned over 700000 Azerbaijanis into refugees. And now we are waging a war of liberation. And if we were at least 1% wrong in this war, then we would have been stopped by the powers that be.
    1. kiborg
      kiborg 5 October 2020 09: 09
      +3
      This poor Armenia occupied 20% of the territory of Azerbaijan

      You were deceived. Armenians have always lived on these lands.
      1. Bakinec
        Bakinec 5 October 2020 09: 53
        +1
        According to your ingenious conclusion, it turns out that wherever the Armenians live, they can create their own state and expel other local residents from there? Let Russia create a Krasnodar Armenian state in Krasnodar (after all, there are 5 times more Armenians living there than in Karabakh) and expel all non-Armenians from there, or France - the Marseilles Armenian state - there are no less Armenians there than in Karabakh.
        1. kiborg
          kiborg 5 October 2020 11: 01
          +4
          You have not understood anything. I have cited the population census since 1823. It clearly states that the majority of Armenians in the NKAO lived against the Azerbaijanis. Already TWO! years. And you shout that these lands are yours. So why are they yours ???
          1. Bakinec
            Bakinec 5 October 2020 11: 05
            +1
            And in Krasnodar, in their opinion, the Armenians have been living since the 1st century BC. era
            1. kiborg
              kiborg 5 October 2020 11: 11
              +3
              I brought you the All-Russian Population Census, the official one. What does Krasnodar have to do with it? Why go back centuries? Don't look that far. Take at least those 30 years that have passed since your first war for Karabakh. A whole GENERATION has already grown up there, which considers NKR to be its Motherland. And they will fight to the death for her!
              1. kotdavin4i
                kotdavin4i 5 October 2020 12: 50
                0
                Quote: kiborg
                I brought you the All-Russian Population Census, the official one.

                I wonder since when is "Wikipedia" - the freely edited resource is "Official" - I will calmly create an article that I am the emperor of Mars - I will present to you - and try to prove to me that this is not so ... There is an article on the wiki ...
            2. yawa63
              yawa63 5 October 2020 12: 35
              +2
              Quote: Bakinec
              And in Krasnodar, in their opinion, the Armenians have been living since the 1st century BC. era

              I do not want to predict anything, but there are concerns about this ...
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 6 October 2020 13: 07
                +1
                Quote: yawa63
                Quote: Bakinec
                And in Krasnodar, in their opinion, the Armenians have been living since the 1st century BC. era

                I do not want to predict anything, but there are concerns about this ...

                On the territory of the Urals, the first Russian settlements arose a little more than four centuries ago. The Tatars came to the Urals part-time years earlier. Khanty, Mansi, Bashkirs have lived from time immemorial. Give at least one reason to recognize the Urals as not Russian?
                Similar processes took place in the Krasnodar Territory, but several centuries later. Happen and will take place in the Samara and Saratov regions (where you probably come from). The question is, what difference does it make?
                In Russia, in fact, unlike other empires, there is no metropolis, so an Armenian and an Azerbaijani living, for example, on Sakhalin, will fight against an external enemy to the last blood in the interests of Russia.
                Terrible, an internal enemy. Yes parades of sovereignty. But they are possible to titular and local nations. Such bends are and will be. In fact, Armenia and Azerbaijan, as well as other union republics and not only republics, are heirs of the artificial formation of borders. So it is just necessary to realize that without the USSR or the Republic of Ingushetia there were no many national states, in particular Armenia and Azerbaijan, for sure.
                The decision of such "mine" is absurd. It is banal that another couple of three neighbors with a historical justification can claim this “mine”. Iran, Turkey and others!
            3. Paul Siebert
              Paul Siebert 6 October 2020 12: 13
              0
              And in Krasnodar, in their opinion, the Armenians have been living since the 1st century BC. era

              Armenians began to move en masse to the North Caucasus in 1915 after the start of the Turkish massacre.
              It is likely that soon we will see a new wave of Armenian migration to Russia - the Karabakh ... ((( angry
          2. yehat2
            yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 24
            +2
            they are not yours or ours - they are the people who live there.
            let people just live, so that no one cares whose lands it is.
            Because if this does not stop, then all the lands of Azerbaijan and Armenia will eventually go to neighbors who are not bogged down in such garbage.
            1. Bakinec
              Bakinec 5 October 2020 11: 54
              +4
              And the Azerbaijanis whom the Armenians expelled from Karabakh and adjacent regions are not people in your opinion?
              1. yehat2
                yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 58
                +1
                why do you think so? I am in favor of abolishing any national qualification who should live there
              2. sentaniel
                sentaniel 5 October 2020 15: 38
                +1
                And who was the first to commit genocide and to expel Armenians from those lands?
        2. yawa63
          yawa63 5 October 2020 12: 32
          +2
          Yes, about a million Armenians live in the Krasnodar Territory (this is official), you can't argue here. In Adler (where I live), they are the majority compared to other nationalities. IMHO.
        3. venik
          venik 5 October 2020 17: 10
          +2
          Quote: Bakinec
          Then let Russia create a Krasnodar Armenian state in Krasnodar (after all, there are 5 times more Armenians living there than in Karabakh) and expel all non-Armenians from there

          =========
          And what "on Krasnodar" Armenians are already MORE than ...... Non-Armenians ??? belay
        4. DED_peer_DED
          DED_peer_DED 5 October 2020 19: 32
          -1
          Quote: Bakinec
          According to your ingenious conclusion, it turns out that wherever the Armenians live, they can create their own state

          Apparently, they didn’t grow up to “their own state”. So it is necessary to resolve the issue radically, both in the stall and those on the side, also under a hot hand.
          Make there one general governorship for all.
          This Middle Ages must be stopped.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 5 October 2020 11: 20
      +7
      Well, let's say neither you nor the Armenians evoke any special sympathy. There are already too many of you in our cities .. But Azerbaijan - got in touch with the Ottomans, and this dramatically changes the picture for Russia. If it weren't for this, you fight among yourself even until the end of the world. And so, although you really don't want to, it looks like Russia will have to fit in. You left us no choice. Lie under Erdogan - Aliyev made a big mistake ...
    3. yehat2
      yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 31
      +2
      Quote: Bakinec
      This poor Armenia occupied 20% of the territory of Azerbaijan

      I will just remind you that these territories were ceded to Armenia after a COUNTER OFFENSIVE, not an offensive.
      so that everything is clear. The gamble of the previous leadership of Azerbaijan is no less guilty than Armenia that these lands were transferred to the Armenians.
      1. Bakinec
        Bakinec 5 October 2020 11: 55
        -5
        Armenia has occupied these lands and now is the time to return. This is what international law says.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 5 October 2020 12: 02
          +6
          is the return time recorded in international law? And where, if not a secret?
          Can Mongolia already return their lands near Budapest?
  7. svp67
    svp67 5 October 2020 07: 27
    +7
    Nice ... but why did the authors miss another country capable of selling a wide range of UAVs of their own design? I'm talking about Iran. He will be glad to both earn extra money and test his cars in a real battle
  8. Slon1978
    Slon1978 5 October 2020 07: 41
    17
    I rarely write comments, but A. Mitofanov's article is simply striking in its absurdity. First, the author talks about targeted and smart spending of the defense budget, and then suggests buying or renting reconnaissance vessels in the Caspian or the Black Sea and training combat swimmers ... Hmmm. Then, instead of using the Armenian Air Force aviation, the tactics of which, taking into account the situation, could be speculated, advises ... to overtake them to a friendly country for the sake of safety. Instead of aviation, which is, it proposes to use UAVs, which are not. Bravo, author :))
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 5 October 2020 10: 46
      0
      To some extent, the author is right. If it turns out Drying will be changed to UAVs at a reasonable rate, the use will be much more. The air defense of the Azerbadzhano Turkish troops will simply not allow the Armenian aviation to work. Plus, most likely Israel will share its experience with the PDA to provoke and withdraw under a shot. They can do it. A UAV is at least a living pilot. And possibly a completed task.
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 25
      +2
      do you not agree that it was more important for Armenia to buy other weapons instead of the Su-30?
      Personally, it seems to me that the active development of artillery, mine work, reconnaissance, communications and UAVs, better training of personnel would have a much greater effect than having 4 fighters.
      1. Slon1978
        Slon1978 5 October 2020 15: 12
        0
        Generals are always preparing for the last war. And the reasoning - during the conduct of hostilities - about what would be better to buy - these are conversations, as they say, in favor of the poor. During a war, you need to be able to use the advantages of your weapon. To buy a UAV is not to take beer in a store - you need to train control operators, maintenance personnel, weapons - all this is long and will have to be done later. Now we see that the Armenians inflict a significant part, if not the main, losses in armored vehicles on the enemy with the help of the Kornet ATGM - they are in abundance and know how to shake them off. Azerbaijan uses UAVs much more efficiently. The Su-30SM has great potential - it can stay in the air for several hours, has a radar that can detect and attack UAVs over Karabakh even without external guidance, they can and should be used as UAV hunters, having thought out tactics to minimize risks. The territory of the NRC is roughly 120 by 120 km, it is fired by a medium-range missile even from the territory of Armenia.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 5 October 2020 15: 38
          0
          I think Armenia was very well aware of what weapons and where in Azerbaijan.
          So they knew exactly what to prepare for.
  9. strannik1985
    strannik1985 5 October 2020 07: 50
    +2
    The success of the use of UAVs directly depends on the organization of the air defense forces of Azerbaijan, on the list they have a strong composition - S-300PMU-2, Tor-2ME, Buk, modernized by Belarusians S-125, Israeli Barak-8 and Spider.
    1. yehat2
      yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 29
      +1
      the problem is the inadequate cost of shooting down the UAV. they can be knocked down, but checkmate made up part of Azerbaijan is much easier than Armenia
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 5 October 2020 11: 36
        +1
        It is necessary to count not by the cost of the device itself, but by the damage that it can cause, the numbers are completely different. If "some who" did not wag their tail, they could receive missiles from the presence.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 5 October 2020 11: 39
          0
          I don't know the details to discuss.
          in fact, Armenia slept through the last 5 years of preparation for air defense
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 5 October 2020 11: 55
            0
            It is difficult to disagree with this.
  10. Kolin
    Kolin 5 October 2020 08: 32
    0
    The cost of one Su-30SM for the Russian armed forces is 1,5-2 billion rubles.
  11. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 5 October 2020 08: 42
    16
    I wonder how this slag goes through the moderation filters? Fighting Armenian swimmers are more of a story for nerds from Yandex Zen, not for VO. In this profound blizzard, it would be necessary to go further - to advise the Armenians to acquire their own constellation of satellites. A pair of satellites with high-precision laser weapons must constantly hang over the oil fields! And one killer satellite - over the Food City market or, at least, over Nisanov's house in Barvikha!
  12. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 5 October 2020 08: 57
    10
    With particular pleasure I read about the Armenian fleet and Armenian submarine saboteurs. The smile brightened me and the mood rose. The author is right about the UAV in the sense that now it is legal for any army. About the fact that aviation urgently needs to be overtaken somewhere (where?) - I did not understand the author at all - neither the 30s, nor attack aircraft, nor army assault helicopters, in the author's opinion, can do anything at all in terms of destroying the enemy? The author is clearly under the impression of the Bayraktar's successes. who shoot defenseless before them (stupidly in height and range) Armenian old air defense systems ...
  13. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 5 October 2020 09: 06
    10
    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    And one killer satellite - over the Food City market or, at least, over Nisanov's house in Barvikha


    That's for sure)
    It's amazing how the rich and influential representatives of Azerbaijanis and the Armenian Diaspora in Russia feel at ease and comfortable.
    They don't care about quarantine.
    When all shopping and entertainment centers and wholesale markets closed, some chains of one order-bearer of non-Russian origin continued to work. But what about the infection (covid)?

    And some, almost without hiding, organized a fundraising for the needs of the army (not the Russian one).

    The authorities have drawn closer and kindly to very influential, but with a dubious reputation, people on both sides of the conflict.

    And now he cowardly asks them not to transfer this problem to the territory of our Motherland.

    This is categorically unacceptable.
    It is necessary in the shortest possible time to expel all non-citizens of the Russian Federation who are with us illegally to their bleeding lands.

    Let them solve their problems there, in their homeland.
  14. Altona
    Altona 5 October 2020 09: 26
    +1
    In general, any war requires a resource. Azerbaijan has little of this resource, let's say, despite its larger economy than the Armenian one. Russia has made it clear that it has nothing to pay for this war, much less get involved in it. The Turks probably won't last long either, this attack was more likely to provoke Russia, which does not allow the Turks to nest in Idlib. And tanks, planes are consumables. Of course, it is very strange that we were actively arming the Azerbaijani army according to the principle of "just business, nothing personal", which ultimately backfired on the Armenian "allies".
  15. Undecim
    Undecim 5 October 2020 09: 32
    14
    Today, the Armament section seems to be holding a competition for amateurs. One author writes that missiles with a thermal seeker cannot be used in the dark, another suggests Armenia to create a navy and combat swimmers. Why not submarines ?! In the same Greece, the Armenian diaspora is in authority, do they really not bargain with the Greeks for renting a submarine?
    The only thing that such publications do effectively is destroy the site's reputation.
  16. Sergey Valov
    Sergey Valov 5 October 2020 09: 59
    +3
    Cooperating with Greece to counter Turkey on the Black Sea is cool! Apparently, they taught us bad geography at school. wink
  17. Selevc
    Selevc 5 October 2020 11: 32
    0
    Thus, Armenia with a military budget of about $ 500 million is in fact opposed to Azerbaijan and Turkey with a combined military budget of about $ 10-20 billion.
    Now it is fashionable to measure everything in money ...
    If so, compare the budgets of Vietnam and the United States ??? So that the huge budget somehow helped America win the Vietnam War? Apart from carpet bombing and the murder of the civilian population of the United States with their colossal budget, they could not do anything in Vietnam with the Viet Cong - they could not do anything for 10 years !!!

    Perhaps Armenia will not be able to defeat Azerbaijan and Turkey in an open war - but it can cause them so many problems that their victories will cost both Erdogan and Aliyev huge sacrifices !!! But will these dictators make major sacrifices?
  18. Skyscream
    Skyscream 5 October 2020 11: 41
    +1
    "... the Germans were planning a blitzkrieg for months ..." What kind of blitzkrieg is this, for months? Or do you think that until December 41 it was a continuous blitzkirg planned by the OKW?)))
  19. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 5 October 2020 12: 16
    -1
    Israel will sell any weapons to Armenia, the main thing is that it has the money to pay for all this.
  20. xomaNN
    xomaNN 5 October 2020 13: 04
    +1
    Armenian navy wassat

    I agree with the author - Turkey keeps the entire (!) Territory of Armenia "under a hood". And looking at the careless laxity of the Armenians in the issue of camouflage and shelter of aviation, they can lose expensive planes not even in the air, but at airfields.

    And UAVs have shown their effectiveness here. Turks and Jews sold a strong aircraft army of their UAVs to the Azerbaijanis. And the Russian design bureaus clearly needs to accelerate in the development of medium strike UAVs at first.
    And in China, unlike the Russian Federation, they will want to SELL their UAVs, and not "almost give" drinks
  21. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 5 October 2020 13: 20
    +3
    The author's recommendations and calculations about the Armenian Navy are drawn to the proposal of state terrorism as a means of warfare. Then it is easier to hire ready-made organized crime groups from the diaspora or from "soldiers of fortune". For the Armenian Air Force, of course, the Su-30SM as a type of fighter aircraft is redundant, and their presence as many as four copies does not solve a single problem of the country's Air Force in the conflict from a word at all, except for a warm sweet poultice for ostentatious Armenian pride and the redneck attempt of the Air Force leadership to copy the Israelis.
  22. Runway
    Runway 5 October 2020 14: 39
    +3
    The article is, to put it mildly, "strange". Armenia and Azerbaijan de jure are not in a state of war, since the use of the Armenian Air Force over the territory of Karabakh is case B. As well as the Azerbaijan Air Force over or across the territory of Armenia for objective reasons.
    The excitement with UAVs operating in the foothills and valleys on targets that are static in their mass, not equipped in the engineering plan, when the base is shifted to mountain areas (which is subjective, the defending side should have done for 2-3 days with a change in tasks for the rearguard units on the line of contact) - will come to naught (for objective reasons).
    The article is a mix of subjectivism and fantasy.
  23. VyacheSeymour
    VyacheSeymour 5 October 2020 15: 59
    -2
    In addition, reconnaissance and sabotage units operating from the Caspian Sea can gain access to a much larger number of objects than is possible from the territory of Armenia, the border with which Azerbaijan is likely to be heavily guarded.

    Armenia is a great ocean power! ..- how is the Caspian Sea sideways here ???
    .... than it is possible from the territory of Armenia, the border with which Azerbaijan is most likely heavily guarded.

    This author -> author -> author, iksperd, who does not know what is most likely happening on the Armenian-Azerbaijani border, is threatening to wake up now also by land ... - Nice!
  24. Old26
    Old26 5 October 2020 16: 11
    +3
    Quote: Slon1978
    I will answer you like this. Firstly, the aggressor here is clearly Azerbaijan and the Armenians should be supported only for this reason.

    That is, the liberation of their own territories is aggression? 7 regions of Azerbaijan have been captured and is their liberation an aggression? You, dear, have something wrong with logic

    Quote: Vitaliy Tsymbal
    I only read up to the moment when the author recommended Armenia to have its own combat swimmers ... and realized that the author had no idea what an army is, what a theater of operations is, etc ... but only read about the war in books. Why do we need such articles ???

    And for me the first bell was when the author started talking about the reconnaissance fleet of Armenia in the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Or the base of this fleet on the Black Sea will be in Greece (Turkey's antagonist). And Greece has access to the Black Sea ???? And in the Caspian? Abroad, that is, Iran "will help us"? Something Andrei got out of line with this analyst

    Quote: kiborg
    You were deceived. Armenians have always lived on these lands.

    Yes, even "elderly negros." The territory of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region was autonomous within the Azerbaijan SSR. And how many and who lived there is a secondary question. And no one, when it comes to territorial disputes, cares about the ethnic composition of those living there. Abkhazia has the majority of Abkhaz
  25. 9 Shaft
    9 Shaft 5 October 2020 18: 11
    -1
    In short, the Armenians remaining on the territory of Armenia, scatter in different directions, the chieftain, of course, must not forget the treasury. Yes, do not forget to mine everything (the option is cheap, but serious), the Azerbaijanis will come and everything will explode. You only have to bury them a little later. And then there are all sorts of swimmers, drones ..... They are not sharpened for this))))
    1. Livonetc
      Livonetc 5 October 2020 19: 16
      +2
      It was in Rhodes.
      The Ottomans occupied the island of Kotoryts before the knightly order of the Hospitallers defended it.
      And the arsenal (gunpowder) was hidden in the basement of the temple.
      In fact, the gunpowder was hidden by a traitor from the knightly order, offended by the order for certain reasons.
      Due to the loss of gunpowder, the island had to be surrendered.
      The Ottomans took over the island and settled in the best areas.
      After a certain number of years, the supply of gunpowder was blown up, the Ottomans living in the area died.
  26. Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 5 October 2020 21: 22
    0
    The lessons of the Great Patriotic War are forgotten. 1. It is impossible to achieve victory ON the battlefield without ensuring air superiority OVER it. 2. Stop enemy tanks and the whole army will stop. So all small but proud countries need to buy fighters, albeit with a short range, even if they do not carry 8000 kg of bombs, but provide air superiority. And having received superiority in the air, you can bomb and launch missiles from outside the range of MANPADS at least from Skyrider or Dragoflya. Even F5E and A4 Einip could accept both Mavericks and Shrike. And then it will be purchased with air defense systems, electronic warfare and anti-tank equipment and tanks. A. A soldier can be given not expensive AUG or XK416, but a hundred and a half.
  27. FRoman1984
    FRoman1984 5 October 2020 22: 05
    0
    And why then buy military aircraft, if then look for where to hide.
    I do not understand why they do not raise their Su-30SM and shoot down Turkish drones?
    Why not use flying machines to support dry-trained troops? Want to sit out?
    It will end badly for those who think something can sit out ...
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. Magmax
    Magmax 5 October 2020 22: 41
    0
    Azers are wealthier and much better arrmed ​​but the stronger do not win all the time.
  30. Magmax
    Magmax 5 October 2020 22: 45
    0
    We should mention that Iran has drones Manpads and UAv s and could help Armenia.
  31. Timofey Charuta
    Timofey Charuta 5 October 2020 23: 20
    0
    You know, they scolded the author, but I liked the article. Land Armenians - underwater horsemen, original! Instead of expensive fighters, it is reasonable to buy UAVs and peck at Azeris. One hitch - it seems like it's too late to drink the barjomi.
    And further. Analysts unanimously assured that no one needed war - they would shoot and calm down. And they have already started for civilians - a video from Stepanokert with cassette charges - a terrible horror! As in a sad joke - What are you doing! There are people here ...
  32. CTABEP
    CTABEP 6 October 2020 08: 33
    0
    As for the uselessness of helicopters, it is an inflection point, they will be very useful in such a conflict. Unless, of course, they fly, and not stand together at the same airfield.
  33. Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 6 October 2020 11: 51
    0
    Only Armenia does not officially participate in the conflict. And they themselves make unmanned aerial vehicles, only Karabakh is not given for some reason.
  34. d4rkmesa
    d4rkmesa 10 October 2020 15: 53
    0
    IMHO, Armenia needs to change the Su-30SM for something more necessary until the credit line is fully spent. I think you can come to an agreement. And the planes will go to the Russian Aerospace Forces.
  35. Oleg133
    Oleg133 11 October 2020 07: 02
    0
    I read a lot of comments.
    Here's what happened at the exit.
    Russia is obliged to help
    Armenia by Armenians
    Azerbaijanis to Azerbaijan
  36. Oleg133
    Oleg133 11 October 2020 07: 05
    0
    Quote: FRoman1984
    And why then buy military aircraft, if then look for where to hide.
    I do not understand why they do not raise their Su-30SM and shoot down Turkish drones?
    Why not use flying machines to support dry-trained troops? Want to sit out?
    It will end badly for those who think something can sit out ...

    Nkr is like Donbass for the Russian Federation