Battle for Algeria

A collage from the frames of the movie “Battle for Algeria” made specifically for this article

Massive terrorist attacks by TNF militants in November 1956 - September 1957 received the unofficial name “Battle for the capital” (“Battle for Algeria”). At the beginning of 1957, there were an average of 4 terrorist attacks per day in this city, and they were directed not only against Europeans, but also against loyal compatriots.

Scene from the film “Battle for Algeria”

Even worse was the situation outside the big cities, in the provinces. There, TNF militants killed entire families of local residents if they refused to pay tribute, worked for Europeans or received social assistance from them, smoked, drank alcohol, went to the cinema, kept dogs at home, sent children to schools opened by the French authorities.

Zygut Yousef, one of the field commanders of the TNF (second Wilaya), at the beginning of the war, said:

“The people are not on our side, so we need to force him. He must be forced to act in such a way that he moves to our camp ... The TNF wages war on two fronts: against the French authorities and against the Algerian people in order to make him see us as his representative. ”

Algerian Rashid Abdelli later recalled:

“For us they were gangsters. We did not understand their ideas. We saw only what they were killing. In the morning you wake up and they say that at night your throat was cut to your neighbor. You ask yourself: why? Over time, we realized that we were killing good people. They wanted to destroy the teachers, the former military, those who had a good attitude towards France. ”

Jacques Zeo, who served in the Algerian region of Kabilia in a combination of alpine shooters, recalled a village whose inhabitants refused to pay nationalists:

“28 women and 2 girls with TNF throats cut by fighters. Naked, completely naked, raped. Bruises everywhere, throat cut. ”

By the way, “the cut throat in those days in Algeria was called the“ Kabile smile ”.

At the same time, TNF fighters were very jealous of other "independence fighters": they killed not only European settlers who collaborated with the authorities of fellow countrymen, Harki or captured soldiers of the French army, but also Berbers and Arabs who supported the so-called Algerian national movement or other anti-French groups successfully defeating them by the beginning of 1956.

The saddest thing is that over time, these acts of intimidation began to bear fruit. In 1960, one of the employees of the social assistance service told the commander of the First Parachute Regiment of the Legion, Eli Denois de Saint Marc:

“Muslims have begun to side with the TNF. They do not want to end their lives with a throat cut and a member in their mouth. They are afraid. ”

From the French side, General Massou and his subordinates opposed the TNF militants.

Battle of Jacques Massoux for Algeria

General Massu at Camp of Zeralda, Algeria, 1958

Jacques Massouux and his wife were staunch supporters of the idea of ​​the possibility of peaceful coexistence of the French and Arabs of Algeria. This family even adopted two Arab children, initially a 15-year-old girl, Malika from the Harki family (in 1958): her parents asked her to shelter, fearing for her life. Maliki's father was indeed killed by the nationalists immediately after the French troops left. And then the spouse Massu was adopted by the 6-year-old Rodolfo, who at the age of 6 was left without parents and lived at the barracks of the regiment, which lodged in Ouarsenis. In an interview with Le Monde in November 2000, Massou said:

"For me, he (Rodolfo) and Malika were an example of the fact that the integration, which I have always fought for, is possible, that this is not a chimera."

But some Arabs had a different opinion. At the same time, the old maid told the landlady of the villa on which the family of General Massou lived:

“It seems that soon all Europeans will be killed. Then we will take them home and their refrigerators. But I’ll ask you to let me kill you myself, because I don’t want you to suffer. I will do it quickly and well, I swear to you, for I love you. ”

This can be found in the book by Jacques Massouux “La vraie bataille d'Alger” (“The Real Battle of Algeria”).

On January 28, 1957, a week-long strike began in Algeria, which was supported by Arab "guest workers" in France: 30% of the personnel did not work at the Citroën factory, and 25% did at the Renault factory.

This situation had to be resolved by Jacques Massiu.

He himself recalled this in his already cited book La vraie bataille d'Alger:

“All large enterprises kept records of their employees, so it was not difficult to find out their addresses. Then everything happened according to a single scheme: several paratroopers jump into the truck and get to the right place ... In truth, not one striker went down the stairs on the fifth point, but there were few who really resisted: people were afraid to “lose face” in front of their wife children or neighbors. "

The shopkeepers, whom the paratroopers “escorted” to the shop door on the first day, were fully dressed and shaved the next day.

Skydivers open a restaurant in Algeria - both in the literal and figurative sense of the word

The city of Bon, on the wall there is a poster with the inscription: “Listen to your heart. Get to work. ” January 30, 1957

French patrol on Algeria street

According to Pierre Serjan (paratrooper of the First Regiment, commander of the OAS French division, war journalist, historian of the legion), children who did not go to school did the following: the 9th Zuava regiment's orchestra with music walked through the streets and squares of Kasba, for he was followed by soldiers distributing sweets to the children running up. When many children gathered around him, the commander of this regiment (Marey, he will soon die in battle on the road to the city of El Milia) through a loudspeaker in French and Arabic said that “tomorrow the soldiers will come for them, as today for their dads, so that lead to school. "

And here is the result:

“Tomorrow the zouaves and paratroopers combed the streets again. When they appeared, the doors opened and Fatm gave them their offspring, washed, shining like a copper penny, with a satchel behind. The guys smiled and held out their hands to the soldiers. "

The funniest thing was that the soldiers that day brought “extra” children to schools that were not in schools, who also had to leave: the zoavs and paratroopers took them home after the end of classes - at 16 p.m. not lost).

And here is the dynamics of school attendance by Algerian children: February 1 (the day of the “concert” of the Zouaves) - 70 people, February 15 - 8, April 000 - 1.

Algerian children go to school

Another participant in these events, Major Ossares, in the book Services spéciaux. Algérie 1955-1957 ”(“ Special Services. Algeria 1955-1957 ”) reports of such a tragic incident in the officer’s canteen:

“The waiter walked between the tables with a narcissistic look.
“So what is this mess?” What are you waiting for? Will you serve us?
- I'm on strike.
- What?
The dining room suddenly became very quiet.
“I told you that I’m on strike and that I won’t serve you.” If you are unhappy, I do not care.
I jumped up. The waiter continued to brazenly look at me. Then I gave him a slap in the face. He and his colleagues immediately set to work. ”

For the garbage collection in the streets, Massu ordered to attract idly staggering Algerians, but not all, but only very well and decently dressed.

The strike, as we recall, began on January 28, and on the 29th the Algerian boy came to one of the police stations and asked the soldiers to come for his father:

“He needs to work. We don’t have money for food. ”

The wife of a certain Abdenum Keladi asked for the same thing - and for this she was killed by her husband.

In general, the strike failed - already on the second day, some Algerians independently, without any coercion, came to work. On January 31, only a few did not go to work. The French captain Bergot then tried to find out the reasons why the Algerians generally went on this strike. The standard answer was this:

“Those who say no to TNF end badly.”

An instructive story about Jamil Buhired, Yassef Saadi and captain Jean Graziani

Since November 1956, the leaders of the TNF have switched to a new tactic - more and more explosions began to occur in crowded places, where French soldiers rarely visited, but there were many women and children. To carry out such attacks, young Muslim girls were used, who did bright makeup, put on European clothes and, without causing any suspicion, left bags with explosives at bus stops, in street cafes or in bars on the beach, and they left (i.e. they were not martyrs).

Remember the poster from the last article with the caption: “Aren't you beauties? Take off your veils! ”?

Please removed:

Les poseuses de bombes: Samia Lakhdari, Zohra Drif, Djamila Bouhired, Hassiba Bent-Bouali (1956)

And really, beauties. Our “heroine” is the second on the right, with bombs in her hands.

Many of these cheerful "patriots" made more than one "walk" and each one had their own cemetery, on which not European legionnaires or zouaves were buried, but European neighbors, whose grandfathers and great-grandfathers considered Algeria to be their homeland, as well as their children.

Shot from the film “The Battle of Algeria”. A terrorist leaves a bag with a bomb in a cafe:

Jean-Claude Kessler recalled one of these attacks:

“On this day, I patrolled the city in order to restore order in the sector near Isli Street. At 18.30 we heard a terrible explosion, from which the earth trembled. We immediately rushed there: a huge bomb exploded on Bujo Square in the Milk Bar. Its name itself testified to the fact that alcoholic drinks were not served here, it was a favorite place of the surrounding mothers and their children ...
Everywhere there were children's bodies, poorly distinguishable due to smoke ... I wanted to howl at the sight of distorted children's bodies, the hall was filled with screams and groans. ”

And here is the cover of the newspaper reporting the attack, which Kessler talks about:

Larbi Ben Mkhaydi, one of the top leaders of the TNF, captured by the soldiers of Bijar, when asked if he was ashamed to send Arab girls to blow up innocent women and children in a cafe, answered with a grin:

“Give me your planes, and I will give you their bags of explosives.”

On April 8, 1957, a Zouave patrol detained Djamila Bouhired, who was carrying explosives in a beach bag. Yasef Saadi, who controlled her movement, tried to shoot the girl, but Jamilya survived and, indeed, as Saadi was afraid, betrayed many accomplices.

Jamilya Buhired, 1957

Yasef Saadi, September 25, 1957

Liberals and “human rights defenders” in France and in other countries, of course, came out in defense of the failed terrorist, accusing security officials of torture, bullying, and even abuse of the “unfortunate and defenseless girl.”

Postcard "Freedom Jamile Buhired", GDR

But it was not so at all.

At the request of General Massu’s wife (recall, she was an ardent supporter of the idea of ​​peaceful coexistence of the French and Arabs in Algeria), the hereditary “black-footed” - 31-year-old captain Jean Graziani, whom we first met in the article, began to work with Jamil “Foreign Legion Against Vietnam and the Dienbienfu Catastrophe”.

As you can guess by last name, the ancestors of Graziani were not French, but Corsicans. He fought since 1942, when at the age of 16 he became part of the American army, then he was a paratrooper of the 3rd regiment of the British SAS (which was commanded by Pierre Chateau-Jobert, we talked about him when we talked about the Suez crisis). Finally, Graziani became a soldier of Free France. Since 1947 he served in Vietnam, in 1950 was captured wounded during the battle of Khao Bang and was released only after 4 years. From Indochina, Graziani went to Morocco. Looking around a little, he, on his own initiative, blew up two headquarters of the local Communist Party one after another. His commander, Colonel Romen-Defoss, stunned by such official zeal of his subordinate, almost with kicks sent him to Algeria. Here Graziani met with General Massiu, who decided that such an initiative and active officer was the place in intelligence. So this young veteran of World War II and Indochina ended up in the 2nd bureau of the Tenth Parachute Division, where Major Le Mir became its direct chief.

Captain Jean Graziani, Algeria, 1957

Jean Graziani later recalled:

“Are they accusing me of torturing her?” Poor girl! I know why she was so attached to this idea of ​​torture. The truth is simple and pathetic: Jamilya Buhired started talking after a couple of slaps in the face, then continued out of vanity, out of a desire to give herself meaning. She even laid out to me what I did not ask. Jamilya Buhired, whom Jeanne d'Arc of the rebels want to do, issued her entire organization at the first interrogation. If we were able to cover a network of bomb makers, it was only thanks to her. A couple of slaps in the face, and she laid it out, heroine. Torture, I know what it is. I was a captive of Vietnam for four years. ”

Recall that at the time of release from the Vietnamese captivity, Jean Graziani weighed 40 kg, such as he was called the "detachment of the living dead." The reason for the slaps in the face of the arrested terrorist was her defiantly impudent behavior and rudeness at the first interrogation: the combat officer who had passed through fire and water “fell through” and guessed with arguments. Jamili no longer needed the “stick”, and Graziani used only “gingerbread” later on: he bought her dresses, jewelry and sweets, drove him to the officer’s dining room, and the girl wrote him love letters that he read to his colleagues. Moreover, he began to patronize Jamili’s younger brother, who now lived in the 10th division, receiving gifts from both Graziani and other officers. An underground terrorist organization that was defeated thanks to Jamily’s “assistance” was called the Kasbah.

We continue to quote Graziani:

“Once I told her:
"Jamilya, I like you, but I will do my best to be guillotined, for I do not like those who carry bombs, who kill innocents."
She laughed:
"My captain, I will be sentenced to death, but not guillotined, because the French do not guillotine women. Since after 5 years we will win the war, both military and political, my people will set me free and I will become a national heroine."

Everything turned out exactly as Jamilya Bukhired said: she was sentenced to death, but not executed. In 1962, she was released and headed the Union of Women of Algeria.

Jamilya Buhired is a folk heroine, as she herself predicted

She married her lawyer (who had previously defended the Nazi criminal Klaus Barbier), later worked in the African Revolution magazine.

Currently, this naive fool, who failed the task and was nearly killed by her own commander, who fell in love with her jailer and who betrayed all her associates to him, is often included among the 10 outstanding Arab women who had the greatest influence on the world history.

Yasef Saadi, who sent Jamil to kill women and children and shot at her after his arrest, was arrested on the night of September 23-24. This operation was carried out by paratroopers of the 2nd company of the First Regiment of the Legion, headed by Jeanpierre himself (regiment commander), who was wounded in a shootout - he was a desperate man and a real military commander, he didn’t hide behind his subordinates, so the soldiers loved him so. We talked about Janpierre in an article “Foreign Legion Against Vietnam and the Dienbienfu Catastrophe” and continue the story about him in the next.

During interrogation, Saadi called himself a baker from Algeria for 29 years and a Frenchman (!) By nationality.

Arrested Yasef Saadi

It was Saadi who betrayed Ali Ammar, better known as Ali la Poin, a former petty criminal (he spent 2 years in an Algerian prison), who became a prominent “revolutionary” who was executed on October 8, 1957. Ali Ammar was called the “main killer of the TNF,” after his arrest, the number of terrorist attacks immediately declined.

Ali Ammar (Ali la Pointe)

Apparently, for "cooperation with the investigation" Saadi was pardoned by de Gaulle who came to power in 1958.

In 1962, Yasef Saadi wrote memoirs about his "struggle for the independence of Algeria", where, apparently fearing lawsuits, he gave other recognizable characters other names and surnames - for example, he called himself Jafar. In 1966, his book was filmed by the Italian director Gillo Pontecorvo: Saadi played himself (Jafar), and Ennio Morricone wrote the music for the film.

Scene from the film “Battle for Algeria”

In the same 1966, the film “Battle for Algeria” received the main prize of the Venice Film Festival.

Yasef Saadi and Gillo Pontecorvo at the 27th Venice Film Festival. Between them - the wife of Pontecorvo Picchi, who holds the hand of not the husband, but the former terrorist, apparently considering him the "main star" of this shot

Issued by Saadi Ali Ammar also became the hero of this film - a character named Brahim Haggiag:

Brahim Hagiag in the movie “Battle for Algeria”

And this is another hero of the film “Battle for Algeria”: Lt. Col. Mathieu. Its prototype was our old friend - Marcel Bijard:

I must say that the film turned out to be very tough and not one of the sides is idealized in it. It is shown how an Arab boy shoots at a policeman and police protect another Algerian teenager from the crowd who wants to kill him. In this film, paratroopers torture TNF fighters - and they also distribute bread in the Arab neighborhoods.

Images from the film “Battle for Algeria”:

Three European-dressed terrorists of the National Liberation Front receive beach bags with explosives - exactly the same as those carried by Jamilya Buhired

Paratroopers Jacques Massoux are investigating another terrorist act

Since Pontecorvo began as a documentary filmmaker, his film turned out to be incredibly realistic - so much so that, as they say, both the Red Army and Black Panther terrorists and the Pentagon staff used it as a teaching aid. For some time he was banned from showing in France.

Here's how the TNF militant attacks on French soldiers are shown in this film. A group of women goes to patrol the paratroopers:

And suddenly:

And here is the result:

But what about our French?

In July 1958, Captain Jean Graziani left the reconnaissance army, becoming the commander of a company of colonial paratroopers and already in October was wounded in the chest in a battle with TNF militants. He remained in service and died in another clash with them on January 6, 1959, before he reached the age of 33.

Jean Graziani

France paid off its relatives Graziani posthumously conferring on him the rank of officer of the Legion of Honor.

Now about Jean Graziani in Algeria is remembered only as a jailer of the "heroic" Buhired, few people remember him in France.

Participating in the arrest of Yasef, Saadi Janpierre died before Graziani, in May 1958, but we will not run ahead. We will talk a little more about him in the next article, which will tell about the famous commanders of the French Foreign Legion who took part in the Algerian war.


In preparing the article, the materials of the blog of Urzova Ekaterina were used:
About TNF atrocities: https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/270597.html
On the fight against the general strike:
https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/311957.html
https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/264684.html
About General Massiu (by tag): https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%8E%20%D0%96%D0%B0%D0%BA
About Captain Graziania, Jamil Buhired and Yassef Saadi:
https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/248037.html
https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/309806.html
https://catherine-catty.livejournal.com/396960.html
Also in the article, quotes from French sources translated by Catherine Urzova were used.
Some of the photos were taken from the same blog, including pictures of the author.

Comments

[Crowe]

“It seems that soon all Europeans will be killed. Then we will take them home and their refrigerators. But I’ll ask you to let me kill you myself, because I don’t want you to suffer. I will do it quickly and well, I swear to you, for I love you. ”

a huge bomb exploded at Bujo Square in the Milk Bar. Its name itself testified to the fact that alcoholic drinks were not served here, it was a favorite place of the surrounding mothers and their children ...
Everywhere there were children's bodies, poorly distinguishable due to smoke ... I wanted to howl at the sight of distorted children's bodies, the hall was filled with screams and groans. ”

I don’t understand the French ... And after all this, they still host Arabs ..

[Olgovich]

Quote: Crowe

I don’t understand the French ... And after all this, they still host Arabs.

I do not understand de Gaulle HOW after this:

“For us they were gangsters. We did not understand their ideas. We saw only what they were killing. In the morning you wake up and they say that at night your throat was cut to your neighbor. You ask yourself: why? Over time, we realized that we were killing good people. They wanted to destroy the teachers, the former military, those who had a good attitude towards France. ”


“28 women and 2 girls with TNF throats cut by fighters. Naked, completely naked, raped. Bruises everywhere, throat cut. ”

- could Algeria and millions of normal people of the country be given to these ANIMALS?

Instead of crushing them there and saving Algeria and preserving France with this, he recognized them and this ... launched an infection in France ..

Also the USSR of these sadists ... supported. AND WHAT he won from this except huge money losses?
In the USSR, there was, of course, "nowhere" to put them ...

[VLR]

Putin, recognizing the coup in Kiev, and entering into negotiations with the Bandera Maidan, giving them at least two tens of millions of Russian and Russian-speaking Ukraine, did the same as de Gaulle.

[Olgovich]

Quote: VlR

Putin, recognizing the coup in Kiev, and entering into negotiations with the Bandera Maidan, giving them at least two tens of millions of Russian and Russian-speaking Ukraine, did the same as de Gaulle.

1. One never justifies the other

2. Ukraine was not part of Russia in 2014 as Algeria in France, what is the matter with you?

Putin did not recognize the state of Ukraine (as de Gaulle Algeria), it recognized as so-called "SNK" more in 1918 yearwhen they were given uk.ronazistam Grushevsky, Vinnichenko, etc. for Ukrainization Russian lands and at least two tens of millions of Russian and Russian-speaking Little Russia.

the state of Ukraine has existed for 112 years - read the same Constitution of the Ukrainian SSR, and 1991, in accordance with the right to exit the USSR, left it, breaking domestic relations with Russia.

Someone has been doing something there for a hundred years, but to blame ... Putin ...

[VLR]

Ukraine exists 112 years? Yes, Ukrainians also dug up the Black Sea.
By the way, what kind of Ukraine was the SNK recognized? Did it include Crimea, Donbass, Transcarpathia, Odessa?

[Olgovich]

Quote: VlR

Ukraine exists 112 years?

You were indicated year of recognition - 1918, and SNK,so that you do not get confused and do not remember the earthwork ..

Quote: VlR

By the way, really, what Was Ukraine recognized by SNK? Did it include Crimea, Donbass, Transcarpathia, Odessa?

The one that you can see through the window - with the Russians Odessa, Nikolaev, Yekaterinoslav, Kharkov, Elisavetgrad, Aleksanrovsk and other RUSSIAN lands, from which temporary workers with Ukrainian nationalists Grushevskie, together, built the so-called. "u.rkainu".

Or did 1991 grow out of the blue? Yaroshi, poroshenko, tyagnibok, Russophobic writers, nat. "tilllegency, etc., and evil spirits, carefully grown up to 91 g

Who, incidentally, gave the right to temporary workers squander Russian lands 100 years ago?

Putin is the country's first leader in the last 103 years, during which Russia grew territorially (we don’t consider Khrushchev because of the Crimea)

[pogis]

Stalin: Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, Kaliningrad, no?

[Olgovich]

Quote: pogis

Stalin: Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, Kaliningrad, no?

Yes.

But! minus: Donbass, Kazakhstan,, the whole of Turkestan, Karelia. Total from Russia minus 4 million km " in just 18 years, from 1922 to 1940

Another minus is almost 1 million km2 from 1917 to 1922.

Russia without cut off from it, 1940 (almost today's borders)

Total: minus 5 million km2 , plus 100 thousand km2.

[gsev]

Quote: Olgovich

But! minus:

The national bays pulled a single state in the corners after 1991. Now there is a continuous process of creating a new identity, not so much national as ideological. I watched with interest how terry Russian neopagans themselves, without suspecting, entered into an alliance with Ukrainian nationalists propagating their ideas or how Tajiks effectively restrained the development of Ukrainian industry.

[Olgovich]

Quote: gsev

National bai dragged into the corners of a single state after 1991.

after 1917 they were stolen: in total by 1940 in Russia was formed 32 states (16 union and 16 autonomous) -we read their Constitution.
Moreover, allied with the RIGHT OF EXIT, we read the Stalinist Constitution.

We lived together and-decided to go-everything, as allowed

[ANB]

. Karelia

Karelia is like a part of the Russian Federation.
There was, of course, a temporary experiment with the Union Republic, but quickly ended.

[Astra wild]

"carefully paved", probably V. I. Lenin grew them like vegetables

[Olgovich]

Quote: Astra wild

"carefully paved"probably V. I. Lenin grew them as vegetables

and Lenin and followers grew.

They wanted national in form, socialist in content.

And nat was raised in form and nationalist in content.

Didn’t have to deal with the Unions, for example, writers of the national republics?

100% wild nationalists, Russophobes and ... all with party cards

And so-all nat intelligentsia, with the rarest exception ....
Alas..

[opus]

Quote: Olgovich

Putin is the country's first leader in the last 103 years, during which Russia grew territorially (we don’t consider Khrushchev because of the Crimea)

until 2014 only gave
1. The demarcation of the Russian-Chinese border in 2005. China received a number of territories with a total area of ​​337 km²

As the deputy from the LDPR, Alexei Mitrofanov, said

China is our strategic partner. We have already given a lot of things to the Chinese - Imperial Chinese East Railway, for example. Under Khrushchev, a lot of land was handed over to China, and now we are talking only about tiny islands.

they gave / hid something in Altai .. some trifle

 Show / Hide text

http://www.pravo.gov.ru/proxy/ips/?docbody=&prevDoc=102112481&backlink=1&&nd=102050287

2. In September 2010, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (consider Putin the same) and Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg signed an agreement in Murmansk on the delimitation of maritime spaces in the Barents Sea and the Arctic Ocean. Under the agreement, Russia transferred to Norway half of the water area about 175 thousand square kilometers, which almost 40 years considered its

3. In September 2010, Presidents Dmitry Medvedev and Ilham Aliyev signed a border demarcation agreement in Baku. Under the agreement, Azerbaijan received a number of territories of the Republic of Dagestan - the villages of Uryan-Uba and Khrakh-Uba and half the water intake of the Samur River. At the same time, villages were transferred along with residents who were offered to stay in their homes and become citizens of Azerbaijan.

According to Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin, an agreement with Azerbaijan was concluded “In the name of friendship and cooperation”.
In 2013, another land transfer took place. On the whole, areas with an area of ​​about 3 thousand hectares.

Heap takdo: under Vladimir Vladimirovich we left Cuba and Kamran
(" no money left"). And no one will let us go back there


Threat. Area of ​​Crimea 27 km² vs [b] 000 km² in the Barents

including
for reference:

Since the late 90s, Russia has surrendered almost 500 thousand square kilometers of its territory ...
(Yeltsin receiver who? Yeltsin center with whom?
pt. do not whistle Mr. "Olgovich")

[Olgovich]

Quote: opus

Since the late 90s, Russia has surrendered almost 500 thousand square kilometers of its territory ...
(who is the Yeltsin receiver? Yeltsin center at com?)

1. Take OFFICIAL directories of the Russian Federation "INFORMATION ABOUT THE AVAILABILITY AND DISTRIBUTION OF LANDS IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION" for the relevant years and you will finally learn that the territory of Russia has not decreased by 1 km2.

But over the short years of suffering for the misery of people -decreased by FIVE MILLION KM2

Quote: opus

pt. do not whistle Mr. "Olgovich")

including roll into the tube the above nude (sheet) and - there it is, there!

[Krasnodar]

And Ukraine was the region of the Russian Federation? Was there (with the exception of Crimea) Russian troops? Situations are different from the word in general - the Bender Right Sector at the time of the Maidan consisted of Russians who did not speak mov, by 50%. Not Russian-speaking - namely Russian. I'm not talking about the officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[silberwolf88]

But there is no need to juggle ... Ukrainians (most of whom are kondovy Russians) themselves rejected Russia (as before the USSR) their elites smashed with the unconditional support of the overwhelming majority ... everything that can unite ...
There was no overwhelming support in the Crimea and the Donbas (they did not forget their Russianness and did not consider the transfer of Nikita - a rare geek and Trotskyist) a fair transfer of territories to the Ukrainian SSR

[g1v2]

There, both sides were not boys from the church choir. The Franks massacred even more. And then they also fled, leaving everyone who fought for them. Many of their supporters had to flee, leaving everything behind the owners. Why the French never spared native blood. Both sides were worth each other.

[Olgovich]

Quote: g1v2

There, both sides were not boys from the church choir.

This, of course, is so!

BUT, one detail ..

I would prefer (and I'm sure many) if I had to end up in French Algeria under the damned colonialists than in free Algeria with Algeria TNF sadists.

Italian engineers worked with me in the company, who had previously worked in Algeria on water supply projects. They said, yes, this is not life, but sheer horror, in a guard, like a fortress. camp, to work under guard, you can’t put your nose out, all the time alert, constant fear ... I was. truth. risk premium ...

[Graz]

they had to do as the Spaniards with enclave cities on the Moroccan coast and expel all Arabs who came from the country

[Olgovich]

Quote: Graz

they had to do as the Spaniards with enclave cities on the Moroccan coast and expel all who came from the country Arabs

on a national basis? And mestizos? A loyal (and such, in a minority. But were)?

[smart fellow]

Algerians to send from Algeria?

[Kronos]

And why did you decide that this is true and not colonial horror stories like those that the British spread about the rebellious Indians?

[fuxila]

I don’t understand the French ... And after all this, they still host Arabs ..

The French, too, probably do not understand: "And why do these Russians host millions of Muslims who until recently robbed, raped and expelled them from their independent countries?"

[Normal ok]

Quote: Crowe

I don’t understand the French ... And after all this, they still host Arabs ..

And this is the French liberals. Which (as Lenin said: the worse the autocratic Russia, the better for us). They began to play their own games and can not get out of the previously created paradigm.

[Evil Booth]

with the same success, you can shoot films about the atrocities of Soviet partisans, Vietnamese, Koreans, suddenly the Taliban (!) and other Iraqis who did not find the democrat of Europeans very tasty, I would even say with a taste of one hundred thousand mines with chemical weapons and these are the current ones that today ( !) are still crammed by the French everywhere in Algeria that they have to find them .. then the area is rich and the desert mixes the "soil". Sostveno, of course, the French did not cut off the hands of children who did not hand over slave labor, as the Belgians did. but this is not exactly accurate)) well, you get the idea.

[Same lech]

Thanks to the author for the article ... an extremely interesting article.
As they say, your deeds are wonderful Lord ... and the fate of those who fought in Algeria

[416D]

French historians estimate the number of Algerians killed during the war from 300 and 000 (about 400% of the civilian population) plus 000 militants. Source Wikipedia.

The article describes white and fluffy Frenchmen, who, according to their own sources, recycle about half a million Algerians in their own country, and not in France. Although Algerians claim that this is a very understated data.

[Operator]

The auto article does not understand point-blank why almost all Algerians ultimately went over to the side of the TNF - the French stupidly refused to arm the loyalists en masse (for their self-defense), because after that the loyalists, and not the radicals of the TNF, would have kicked France out of Algeria.

It was possible to defeat France in the civil war in Algeria only by destroying 90% of the local population and Christianizing the rest, after which the level of remuneration of local residents would automatically be equal to the French, which they did not aspire to.

[3x3zsave]

French stupidly refused to arm loyalists en masse
It can, of course, be so. But if we do not forget that in the metropolis itself, public opinion on the "Algerian question" was far from being unified, the question remains: what kind of shishi?

[Operator]

Like: it’s a little expensive to defend your country (the home of the third generation of the Blackfeet), but let's capitulate

[3x3zsave]

No, like: today we will start mass deliveries of the "rifleman" to Algeria, tomorrow "Paris Mach" will "ring" about it, the day after tomorrow we will have the indignation of the taxpayers, the resignation of the Cabinet of Ministers and protests turning into clashes with the police already in Paris.

[Kronos]

The author is a colonial propagandist who cries about the loss by white people of their colonies

[smart fellow]

So Hitler thought so in relation to the USSR. Dispose of 90% and re-educate the remainder. But he, like De Gaulle, failed.

[silberwolf88]

TNF utilized most of the population themselves ... the French are mostly only in open clashes ... so take a handkerchief and wipe away the tears and snot on the innocent

[416D]

Ok, and you, in turn, let snot through the colonies lost by the French. But do not forget that at the first opportunity, your Western partners will not miss the opportunity to utilize dear Russians.

[silberwolf88]

that’s generally in milk ... it’s absolutely for me and to Europe their former colonies and so on ... from the word absolutely ... in the West as well as beyond our borders there are no partners ... there are travel companions (in the sense that Lenin put) and the partner and ally of RUSSIA is still the Army Fleet and Strategic Missile Forces)))

[Aleksandr1971]

Arabs of Algeria also captured Algeria in the 8th century, utilizing the Christian Byzantine population. Therefore, one should not be surprised that the French Arabs also disposed of. But only the French did too little, because in fairness it was necessary to utilize all the Arabs of Algeria. Indeed, Algerians for half a millennium robbed the Christian coast of the Mediterranean Sea, killing or selling into slavery up to 6 million Europeans. And at the beginning of the 20th century, about 4 million Arabs lived in Algeria, which under French rule multiplied by the middle of the 20th century to 8 million people.

France needed to understand that without killing the local population, it was impossible to permanently annex territory. But this is exactly how France annexed Languedoc to itself in the 13th century, namely, it caused the genocide of the Cathars. After World War 2, genocide was not a politically correct occupation. Therefore, the French had to deal with genocide in Algeria in the 19th century.

So, Russia delivered the Circassians from the West Caucasus in the 19th century. Now it is the fertile Krasnodar and Stavropol Territories. And the East Caucasus was not cleared of abreks. Now these are economically unprofitable subsidized and corrupt Dagestan and Chechnya.

I was in Algeria in 2013. There, Algerians themselves admit that under the French, it was better. When the French had industry, there was a quality of life, beautiful buildings and safety in the streets. And now a one-sided oil-dependent economy, crime, a sluggish civil war. So, our tourist group was constantly accompanied by police patrols to protect against the local population.

[416D]

Alexander1971, judging by the commentary, you, knowingly or unconsciously, are a big fan of the work of Adolf Aloizych Hitler. Like many of the commentators of this article.

[Aleksandr1971]

This is a personal hit. Forbidden by discussion rules.

But you blamed the French in your commentary, but avoided discussing whether the actions of the French were justified, and also avoided the question of what the Arabs of Algeria themselves were during the conquest of the country

[416D]

The essence of my comment was in the one-sided coverage of this conflict. For objectivity, we must at least try to give both points of view.

And as for the conquest by the Arabs, so the whole history of mankind is written in blood and sword, unfortunately.

As for the attack, I really got this opinion.

[Aleksandr1971]

Now many people call fascism and Hitler all that they do not like. So can the Arabs of the Caliphate, or the ancient Romans, or the Turks, both medieval and modern, also be called fascists? After all, all successful conquerors from the beginning of history destroyed and (or) assimilated the conquered population. And unsuccessful conquerors did not.

Nowadays, radical ecologists call industry fascism. Vegetarians call fascists meat-eaters. Feminists call fascists people with patriarchal views.

I am sure that you, calling people followers of Hitler, simply express your negative attitude towards them. But the Arabs of Algeria, who kicked the French out in the 1960s, do not cause negative for you? Was it not genocide and was not following Hitler?

[416D]

I call Hitlerism or Fascism the policy or approval of the policy of "final solution" of this or that solution of the national question. In your case, you are unambiguously proposing a final solution to the Arab question in a particular country.

Answering your question, I’ll say that I consider the struggle of the Algerian people a liberation movement. As well as the partisan struggle in the great Patriotic war. I do not approve of excesses in relation to civil Arabs and French

[ANB]

. After all, all successful conquerors from the beginning of history destroyed and (or) assimilated the conquered population. And unsuccessful conquerors did not.

Yakuts, Chukchi, Koryak, Tatars were not destroyed and not assimilated.
Perhaps the Russians are still not conquerors.

[Aleksandr1971]

Russians until the beginning of the 20th century were conquerors. And it’s good and right. Better to eat than to be eaten. There were many nations that were destroyed.

Most of the territories were acquired by Russia without serious military clashes because the affiliated party was hopelessly weaker than Russia. In addition, in some cases, the plight of the local population was used, which sought salvation from Russia from foreigners, for example, Kazakhs and Altai from the Dzungars and Chinese. And this is also one of the forms of victory for Russia - to win without revealing weapons. (As, for example, the West defeated the USSR at the end of the 20th century).

There are peoples whose conquest would not lead to further serious uprisings and loss of conquests due to the large difference in military, economic, demographic and cultural potentials. And there are peoples with potential close or even superior to the conqueror. In the first case, the conquest becomes stable. In the second case, either assimilation or (and) destruction is necessary. Otherwise, the conqueror will be thrown out.

For example, the natives of Australia or the Indians of both Americas were much weaker than Europeans in every sense. Now Europeans dominate Australia and both Americas in every sense.

And the inhabitants of S. Africa and Asia, being carriers of ancient culture and statehood, threw Europeans off after a short period of colonialism.

Africa south of the tropic of Cancer was lost by Europeans due to the decisive demographic superiority of blacks over Europeans. The exception is South Africa, where Europeans once dominated, and now eke out a miserable existence. They were about 20% of the population in ser. 20th century, and now about 5%. And this percentage continues to fall.

Take a good look at military history. I will not cite all the gains as examples, for it draws on a 6-year course of higher military-historical education. But I will give some examples.

So, the military history of Russia with the Caucasus, Poland, Siberia, the Volga region, Central Asia and the Far East shows this. To securely connect the Poles, they had to be expelled from Poland, especially since they, living on the border with Russia, all the time communicated with foreign countries and periodically received help from there. There was no need to liquidate the peoples of the Far North because of their irremovable deep comprehensive backwardness.

The Turks destroyed the local population of Asia Minor and thereby saved the territory for Turkey. And in the Balkans, the local Turks did not completely destroy. In addition, the locals in the Balkans excelled the Turks in culture and had the opportunity to receive assistance from abroad. And the Turks lost the Balkans.

Or the Arabs in the Middle East and North Africa assimilated the locals, since they were scattered and ethnically close. And the Arabs did not assimilate the Persians and Türks, since they were more numerous, culturally more developed. Now from Morocco to Oman, Arabs live. And Iran and Central Asia by the Arabs have long been lost.

In my opinion, in the 19th century Russia should have got rid of the Poles, Caucasians and Central Asians. The question is where to drive them out. Poles to Europe (as Jews), Turkmen and Tajiks to Iran, Uzbeks to Afghanistan, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz to Chinese Xinjiang. Circassians and partially Crimean Tatars were expelled to Turkey. And the Chinese were expelled during the Soviet era in the 20s and 30s of the 20th century. If Russia had the right long-term ethnic policy, then Russia would have retained its former 22,4 million square kilometers.

[smart fellow]

That's how Ukrainians argue. They did not expel the Russians from Crimea and lost it.

[Evil Booth]

Yes, and today’s won the first pack of kamens oh kakk Interseno wow these fucking terrorists Algerians blabla ...

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Thank you Valery for the layer of the raised topic, to me personally previously unknown!
Regards, Vlad! Good day to all !!!

[Soveticos]

If the author was not listed, one would think that this is an embellished and moderated translation of an article by Le Pen or Nazis like this family. Directly such white and fluffy French, occupied the country, plundered its wealth, mineral resources, brought "democracy" and their charter to a foreign monastery, carried out a series of nuclear explosions, corrupting the ecology of many regions of Algeria, killed over a million inhabitants, lied and belittled the struggle of the Algerians for their independence, made them terrorists and sadists. If they, the French, are so good and beautiful, then why were they then driven from all the former colonies? They were no better than the Nazis in their colonies. And they will not be in their deceitful Meumars, etc. to admit their barbarity and bestiality ?! And, as it has become fashionable now, to blame the defeat not on ourselves, not on the courage of the fighters against the occupiers, but on the truly progressive part of the population of France itself, against which these underdeveloped people themselves later waged terror in the metropolis itself.

[VLR]

Algeria for France was an exception to the rule - not a colony, but a "union republic", many Arabs were on the side of France in this war, most were indifferent. The FLN militants made up an insignificant part of the population of Algeria - about 100 thousand people. And against these 100 thousand non-humans, 250 thousand Algerians fought - voluntarily, defended their villages in the Harki troops. The FLN fighters acted in the same way as the Bandera in Western Ukraine. The analogy is complete - cruelly, savagely, not just killing defenseless civilians, but torturing and torturing them. And they fled at the sight of armed soldiers. They killed teachers, doctors, social workers, those "black feet" who treated the Arabs well, gave them jobs and paid good wages - because they were more dangerous than soldiers before them.

[3x3zsave]

It's always like that. Any guerilla in the first place destroys representatives of social infrastructure as the most vulnerable part of society.

[Moskovit]

Why, then, France lost in this war, being at arm's length from Algeria?

[VLR]

France did not lose, but won: in 1959, the FLN was practically defeated. The answer to the question: "Why did France leave Algeria" - in the following articles.

[Kronos]

Because despite all your beautiful words, it’s all like a colony and the time of the colonies has passed

[Moskovit]

Like the Americans in Vietnam. Now they are also winning in Afghanistan.

[Ryazan87]

Look at the wars in Chechnya and the current status, so to speak. Very similar, unfortunately ..

[Evil Booth]

and now a detailed list of French overwhelming)))

[ANB]

. FNO militants acted in the same way as Bandera in Western Ukraine.

I just wanted to write the same comment.

[Legionista]

[/ quote] If the author was not indicated, one would think that this is an embellished and moderated translation of an article by Le Pen or Nazis like this family. Directly such white and fluffy French, occupied the country, plundered its wealth, mineral resources, brought "democracy" and their charter to someone else's monastery, [quote]

A little surprising is your comment on the article. The author describes events in great detail and fairly impartially. If you want to get other information, you can contact the Ministry of the Mujahaddin of Algeria (Ministère des Moudjahidine) they, I think, will tell in great detail their version of the events. They, in the ministry, are also engaged in the memory of "innocent fallen martyrs." Please pay attention, the name of the ministry speaks for itself.

[Soveticos]

In your opinion, it turns out that you need to refer only to French or Francophile (I’ll say right away, I’m not a Francophobe)) sources? Some 90% of the storytellers in the article are the French military themselves (the aces of propaganda and fake events) and the pictures from the movie (after all, nevertheless an imitation), it also does not say that torture was always used in which the Nazi Le Pen distinguished himself , and at least look at the photo of Buhired under arrest (this was embellished for a staged photo), it is very difficult to believe that no torture was used against her, TNF is shown directly by the devilish organization, and the French military are directly angels in comparison with them. I am sure that the collaborators of NOD in other countries and wars fought the same way, if not tougher. Further, there will be quotes from other sources (on Wikipedia, etc., excuse me, there will be many bukoffs), 87% of Algerians had only French Union citizenship and were considered type untermenschen, but did not have French citizenship, and the few Algerians who received passports in their nationality column was written down by the French (Yassef Saadi), about a million French colonists, who owned 40% of the cultivated Algerian lands, lived in Algeria. They had the most fertile and convenient for cultivating the land. Algerian workers received lower wages, even at the same job, politically, Algeria was a kind of South Africa during the apartheid regime, during the Second World War, the requirements of autonomy or independence were strengthened in Algeria. May 8, 1945, on the day the war in Europe ended, a mass demonstration took place in Setif. After a French policeman shot dead the 26-year-old Buzid Saal for flying the Algerian flag, the demonstration escalated into riots that swept other cities. It is believed that in total during the unrest, 102 Europeans and Jews died. Colons and the French army responded with a massacre using artillery, tanks and aircraft. The repression lasted several months and claimed the lives of thousands of Algerians [6].

The French Algerians these days killed so much that they often did not have time to bury the corpses, so they were thrown into wells, dumped into mountain chasms in the mountains of Kabilia.

The famous French lawyer Jacques Vergere (by the way, husband Buhired after her release) in an interview in the documentary “Lawyer of Terror” says that the lowest estimates are 10 thousand dead, but, according to the estimates of the American embassy, ​​45 thousand people were killed [7 ]. These events are known as the 1945 Algerian Uprising. After that, external calm was established in Algeria, but the atrocities committed by the French on May 8 could not be forgotten, as well as the fact that the French government continued to ignore the most modest requests of Algerians. Most of all, the colonists opposed any reforms. I will not bore you further, read for yourself, if it is interesting. In any case, one should always study alternative sources of information when compiling an article, even the very Ministère des Moudjahidine, since Google Translator is good.
Valery, I personally really liked your other articles. Thank you for your work.

[Legionista]

I completely agree with your thesis [quote] torture was always used in which Nazi Le Pen also distinguished himself, and at least look at the photo of Buhired under arrest (it was also embellished for a staged photo), it is very difficult to believe that torture was not used against her, The FLN is shown directly by a devilish organization, and the French military are just angels in comparison with them [quote] torture took place regularly, “à la guerre comme à la guerre.” All the facts you listed also took place. However, according to the situation with citizenship, now the following situation is that everyone born in Algeria up to 1961 inclusive are entitled to automatic receipt of FR. citizenship (if they do not have such citizenship yet), any! an Algerian citizen receives a 10-year residence permit upon first submission of documents. As a rule, part of the family (woman and children), after receiving what they are looking for, returns to Algeria and continues to live, receiving benefits for children, social services. support, etc. Apparently, they consider this compensation for the "long-term colonial policy of the accursed metropolis" ...
In the entire history of the battle for Algeria, really affected, in my opinion, can be considered harkis, their tribesmen turned away from them, their bosses abandoned them ... And they honestly performed military duty and served their state (at that time).

[3x3zsave]

Dv, kharki "threw" all who could "throw". What, we didn’t "throw" fellow tribesmen in the North Caucasus in the early nineties?

[Okolotochny]

And even in the mid-90s, in 1996, Chechen policemen showed fierce resistance to the militants in Grozny (somewhere the name of the unit was, like the 2nd PPS battalion). After Khasavyurt, all of them with their families went to Russia. At the beginning of hostilities in 1999. they were agitated again to take part on the side of the Federal Forces. Almost all refused.

[Dmitry V.]

and the French military are straight angels compared to them, torture took place regularly, "à la guerre comme à la guerre"

Mr. Budanov in Chechnya, interpreted the "military duty" from his point of view, but was not convicted according to the laws of wartime.
He and the relatives of Kungaeva - each has its own truth.

[Normal ok]

Quote: Soveticos

The French Algerians these days killed so much that they often did not have time to bury the corpses, so they were thrown into wells, dumped into mountain chasms in the mountains of Kabilia.

It turns out that not enough was killed. Lenin said: "We will respond to the White Terror with Red Terror, ... take hostages, shoot ..." The French turned out to be too dependent on internal and external opinion.

[VLR]

Quote:
"look at the photo of Buhired under arrest (it was also embellished for a staged photo), it is very difficult to believe that torture was not used against her"

Well, if Graziani used "torture", then in the style of "50 shades of gray", and Jamila Bukhyred liked such "tortures" very much: she wrote him love letters, which he read to colleagues - and they remembered them. Fell head over heels in love with him. And Graziani himself denied the love affair - they say, he only played along slightly, completing the task.

[Liam]

Quote: VlR

Well, if Graziani used "torture", then in the style of "50 shades of gray", and Jamila Bukhyred liked such "tortures" very much: she wrote him love letters that he read to colleagues - and they remembered them

You were drawn to erotic fantasies.
By the way, to read to the public private love letters of a woman is a bastard act. There is nothing masculine, much less officer

[VLR]

Buhired for Graziani was not a woman, but a terrorist, ready to kill children. With regard to such individuals, the moral standards of the soldiers who protect these children do not act and should not act.

[Aleksandr1971]

Before you expose the "atrocities" of the French, read about how the Arabs committed atrocities in the occupied territories. And think about what the Arabs of Algeria did in the Mediterranean for centuries until 1830. But before the Arabs in the 7th century, Algeria was Christian. Why not drive the Arabs-invaders out of there now, like the French in 1960?

[saygon66]

- Really ... And why then were "white and fluffy" Soviet citizens driven (and continue to drive) from the former Soviet republics? Maybe they were also "no better than the Nazis"? And, yes - clap your hands to the "fighters for independence" from different "camps"!

[Aleksandr1971]

The French were driven precisely because the French were soft and fluffy. After all, when the Arabs of Algeria themselves conquered Algeria in the 8th century, they shed a lot of Christian blood.

In other words, only those invaders who are feared are not banished. Those who are ready to kill the locals. For example, Caesat wrote in his "Notes on the Gallic War" that 9 million people lived in Gaul before his campaign, and after the conquest of Gaul, 3 million people remained in it. But then the Gauls did not rebel against Rome anymore. Or for example Elam rebelled against Assyria many times. So the Assyrians got tired of it, and under the king Ashurbanipal they killed all the Elamites. Therefore, there was no one else to rebel in Elam.
And so everywhere and always - be angrier and bloodthirsty, then they will not rebel against you. And vice versa, you will be a soft and fluffy conqueror, so soon you will be overthrown and thrown out.

[Ptolemy Lag]

Is it good to live in South Africa now? Blacks are in power, the country is in ...

[3x3zsave]

Thank you, Valery!
The fate of Graziani is interesting. "Once having entered the Road of valor and glory, it is impossible to get off it" (C)

[Legionista]

There is a tradition in the Saint-Cyr military school - each new graduation of officers is named after one of the famous officers of the French army. In 1988, the issue was named after Jean Graziani (Jean Antoine GRAZIANI)

[3x3zsave]

Well, and Valery writes that Graziani is not remembered in France! If I am not mistaken, in France Saint Cyr is quoted as West Point in the USA.

[VLR]

So this is in 1998 - not quite "politically correct and tolerant" yet. Now such heroes in France are ashamed. And the guy, indeed, was a hero, albeit "on the other side of the Iron Curtain."

[3x3zsave]

In the 88th (which is even less tolerant). He really was a hero, for the last years of his life fought for his small homeland.

[Legionista]

To be extremely precise, it was the release of reserve officers (EOR-EAI). So the Author is right - now these heroes are ashamed, but the army is a rather conservative part of society. The army remembers.

[Liam]

Basically, these "colonial" heroes are racists and sadists. Even from this smoothed story it can be seen that the military and officer in them are little-ordinary punishers

[3x3zsave]

Stop! Where is Graziani a racist, sadist and punisher?

[Liam]

The officer who tortures women is no longer an officer. The French units degraded during the war in Algeria. There was a bombing and concentration camps and the forcible removal of millions of people and massacres. The reality is quite different from the author’s one-sided story with shots from movies)

[3x3zsave]

Okay. Take another example. Budanov is also a racist, sadist and punisher? Or Ullman?

[Liam]

According to Budanov, a Russian court spoke out. The verdict is public and everything is described in detail.
This is the degradation of the army when it is used for unusual tasks.

[3x3zsave]

The Russian court publicly condemns the woman for “self-defense” which entailed “death by negligence” (she cut the rapist's vein, inadvertently defending herself), to four years in prison. And for ten years a thug who killed a family of four people, including two young children. This is a Russian court.

[Alex777]

According to Budanov, a Russian court spoke out.

https://mediarepost.ru/news/63294-boynya-u-volchih-vorot-zabytoe-srazhenie-polkovnika-budanova.html
Do you have Chechens whom you know well?
I had it. I know them well.

[3x3zsave]

Meanwhile, colleague Liam, how long have you left the Knighthood of the Round Table?
Even Alienor of Aquitaine declared herself a non-combatant. Thus, your position is nothing more than gender chauvinism within the framework of universal values.

[Liam]

))
I do not quite understand the meaning of the saying "gender chauvinism"
And my values ​​are yes ... human. Well, or universal, if you like it. In particular, my values ​​forbid me to turn into an animal torturing and strangling 18 year old girls and raping them with a shovel shank as well as abusing a corpse.
Do you have other values?)

[3x3zsave]

Sorry, colleague, I respect your opinion very much! Our generation has the same values. If the question arises is to exchange your life for the life of a woman or a child, I won’t even think about it. Also, without hesitation, I will torture and kill any person (regardless of age and gender) who encroached on those people for whom I consider myself responsible.
Here is such a psychological equilibrium from the positive (your assessment) of the St. Petersburg marginal.

[Liam]

Leaving aside the biblical commandments, the provisions of the Criminal Code, and even the firm belief that rape and desecration of a corpse can not save anyone or help something, the fact remains that such deeds and the people who have committed them cannot be objects of admiration or ennobling, even if they happened from the "good "motives.

[3x3zsave]

Returning to the article and personality. Give a similar fact from the biography of Graziani. And, mind you, I do not admire him. I noted that the person chose the Road of Valor and Glory, which is chosen by many people with an "adventurous streak". Like Ernesto Che Guevara

[Liam]

I think you can translate from French
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.humanite.fr/node/229600%3famp
And then the recognition of another "hero" of the article, Colonel Massu. Gratsiani was a sadist
https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2000/06/22/la-torture-faisait-partie-d-une-certaine-ambiance-on-aurait-pu-faire-les-choses-differemment_1671161_3212.html

[3x3zsave]

Good. Thank.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Liam

The officer who tortures women is no longer an officer. The French units degraded during the war in Algeria. There was a bombing and concentration camps and the forcible removal of millions of people and massacres. The reality is quite different from the author’s one-sided story with shots from movies)

Buna Syare!
If we are talking about a "released" terrorist act against the civilian population, the perpetrators of which, on the way to committing it, both I and you and any of those present will torture a woman and not only.

[Liam]

Witnesses. The French killed there in 8 years from half a million to one and a half million people. Including women and children. I doubt that 99,999% of these victims went to blow up someone and so on.
Moreover, the French did not kill them to defend their homeland or to prevent a terrorist attack in Paris, but only to continue to be white gentlemen in the colony

[Krasnodar]

In my opinion, you provide general data on the losses of both sides of the war by the population of Algeria. As for the motives of the French - I agree. As for the activists of the TNF, they correctly did that they were extinguished.

[Liam]

We are talking about a million or more who died in a 10 millionth country. In fairness, this will also draw on genocide. There was nothing heroic and noble on the part of the French, and therefore I think that the article is far from objective and reality and misleads a reader who is not particularly in the subject .
The methods were flaying on both sides, and the author turns out to be white and fluffy French. Although in fairness they are more to blame. First they did it in a foreign country. Secondly, a developed country and there should be more demand from them)

[Krasnodar]

The methods were flaying on both sides, and the author obtained the white and fluffy French.

Well, what white and fluffy can be in a civil war? )))
Again, let's not forget that TNF extinguished its

[VLR]

If you have read the cycle about the pirates of the Mediterranean, you should know that until the French conquest of Algeria, the main income of the "unfortunate Maghrebians" was the slave trade, and the European slaves were in the millions. Having conquered Algeria, the French stopped this practice, but did not destroy the local population (although, probably, their hands were itching), but offered him a way of cooperation - recruiting tyrallers and spags for adventurous men, peaceful labor for the rest. And for 100 they built a modern state in Algeria, ahead of other European countries in terms of development. Having gained independence, Algeria rapidly degraded, moreover, the Algerians began to slaughter each other, organizing a whole decade of Islamic terror on their territory. And Algeria is now one of the most dangerous countries to visit in the world. And for the descendants of "fighters for independence" emigration to France is the ultimate dream.

[Liam]

This kind of excuse is a very slippery path. I can remind you that, say, in the 20s and 30s, not particularly humane things happened in the USSR. And one educator from a cultured country in 41 gathered on a campaign to restore order and bring civilization. " Slavic savages. "I hope you know the methods of this enlightenment. And I do not think that you agree that it was a just and noble cause. Therefore, you should not justify this in relation to other countries that seem to you more backward and with an unsuccessful skin color among the population. Let them live as they want and as they can

[Krasnodar]

I agree. Only then let them not climb into the same France)). To colonialists and enslavers who genocide unfortunate Aborigines just because they had the misfortune to live in a country from which, after gaining independence, I want to run away wherever my eyes look

[Liam]

This is another matter. France is free to accept or not accept them, issue residence permits or deport them.
But countries, like people, must go through all periods of growth and make their mistakes.) France didn’t immediately become like this. They also cut each other for centuries and revolutions and coups and civil wars and shameful defeats. And we want Algeria after 50 years of independence has become a paradise. What famous country have you become rich and successful in 50 years?
Except Israel)

[Krasnodar]

One country I know very well Let's just say - by 1998, Israel had already begun to feel good.

[Liam]

I wrote and how I sent it, remembered about Israel and finished it)
Let's say this exception confirms the rule. Singapore can still be added from former colonies

[Krasnodar]

Singapore is the role of personality in history. Lee Kwan Yu))
From Arab non-colonized countries - Dubai

[Aleksandr1971]

Over the past 50 years, Cyprus, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia, S. Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Hong Kong, Macau, Poland, the Czech Republic, Croatia, Slovenia have become rich.
Approached the wealth of China and another 2 dozen countries.

[Aleksandr1971]

I confirm, since he drove all of Algeria as part of a tour group from East to West.
I am throwing here a few pictures of local residents. Something atrocious from the time of the Mediterranean slave trade has been preserved on their face.

[Aleksandr1971]

Liam, the French did little to kill the Arabs of Algeria because by 1960 there were 8 million Arabs in Algeria. But in the early 1830s, when the conquest of Algeria was just beginning, there were a little more than 2 million Arabs. That's how the Arabs under the rule of evil francs multiplied. And from the French, of whom there were about 1 million people in Algeria. Now in Algeria there is no one left except the embassy.
If the French had killed many Arabs, then now the French would have lived in Algeria, not the Arabs. In fact, the French in relation to the Arabs were benefactors. Some in the comments write that the French discriminated against Arabs in the elections. But before the French in Algeria, the Arabs did not have any elections at all.

So that you, Liam, are wrong.

[Aleksandr1971]

The French army in Algeria was degrading from the betrayal of its political leadership, and not from the fact that it crushed the Arabs.

That is how, through violence against the locals, Russia invaded the Caucasus. Read the stories of L. Tolstoy (for example, about how Russian soldiers pooped in captured mosques and threw cattle corpses into springs, raped local girls and killed children and old people). So by violence Russia seized Kazan, Astrakhan, Siberia and Finland (under Peter I). Did the Russian army at the same time degrade? Of course not.
Why then make a complaint to the French in Algeria?

We must remember that ALWAYS the army of the conquerors should be able to "break away" in the conquered territory. If the commander interferes with this, the aggressive pressure will weaken. Get acquainted with the history of the campaigns of Alexander the Great, the troops of Ancient Rome, Genghis Khan, Attila, Napoleon. And Russian military history also speaks of this.

For example, Lucullus, the Roman commander of the end of the republic, prevented his soldiers from looting in Armenia and Ponte. Therefore, his soldiers rebelled, Lucullus was recalled back to Rome, and the war had to continue L.K. Sulle.

[VLR]

And he began to fight at the age of 16 with the Germans. He fought half his life and spent in captivity (in Vietnam). But if Graciani and Jeanpierre had not died, they probably would have ended up in a French prison as members of the JAB and there they would have been tortured by French investigators - on the orders of de Gaulle.

[3x3zsave]

Now such heroes in France are ashamed
Another five years of such a policy, within the framework of the European Union, and will begin to be proud, however, secretly. A "Nazi" Marine le Pen, will become associated with Joan of Arc.

[Sasha_rulevoy]

Quote: Crowe

host Arabs ..

They took two million Russians against the backdrop of the terror of the Communists.

[Sasha_rulevoy]

Quote: Soveticos

And they will not be in their lying meumars, etc. recognize their barbarism and bestiality ?!

The leaders of the FNOA, with a blue eye, took off a movie about themselves as they put bombs in handbags to blow up peaceful people in the streets.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Thanks for a very interesting article! And the film will need to be watched, if in Russian.
In the photo in the title, the colonel is similar to Jean Claude Van Damme!))

[Krasnodar]

The waiter continued to brazenly look at me. Then I gave him a slap in the face. He and his colleagues immediately set to work. ”

It's a classic
You drive up to an Arab who is in Israel without permission, check the documents, start asking questions. He type does not understand my Arabic
- Do you speak Hebrew?
Laughing, he negatively waves his head. Slap in the face
- Ah, Hebrew, I say, I say ...

[3x3zsave]

"Israeli military
Known to the whole world,
Like a mother, I say, and like a woman,
I demand them to answer! " (FROM)

[Krasnodar]

There were a lot of jokes
Arab at a checkpoint without permission to stay in Israel. It makes no sense to arrest, so I say - stay here for a couple of hours.
- No, I'll go
- To stand!
“Better put a bullet at me!”
- Oh, sorry for the bullet
- No! Sorry for me !!!

[Catfish]

Hello Anton!
I can not ignore the "Israeli military", this is my youth in the Soviet Union. Not a day without a song!

[3x3zsave]

"Over the Arab peace hut,
The jid is proudly flying "(C)

[3x3zsave]

To go nuts! I don’t remember something in the composition of combat units of the Air Force of the Tsakhal of samples with reverse sweep of the wing.

[Kronos]

Quite true poster

[Catfish]

Boris Efimov was an excellent artist, a rare issue of "Crocodile" came out without his drawings. ))

[3x3zsave]

In which place?

[Kronos]

In all, however, this does not mean that the Arabs are good, that those are bad, that those

[3x3zsave]

Excuse me, can I be a little more intelligible?

[Kronos]

Arabs fanatics Islamists, Jews fanatics Zionists

[3x3zsave]

I will disappoint you, it is unlikely that you will find at least one convinced Zionist among the citizens of Israel, for Zionism is open Zionism, it is not welcome there, and hidden too. And to radical Islamism, we are not happy where.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: 3x3zsave

I will disappoint you, it is unlikely that you will find at least one convinced Zionist among the citizens of Israel, for Zionism is open Zionism, it is not welcome there, and hidden too. And to radical Islamism, we are not happy where.

Like this - I'm an open Zionist. Like most Jews. Of the Zionists known in the past - Samuil Yakovlevich Marshak - the first verse was dedicated to the memory of Herzel, of the modern, well-known Russian speakers - the chairman of the Public Chamber of the Donetsk People’s Republic Alexander Kofman.

[3x3zsave]

You, Friedman, are an outspoken Russofascist! If there are convinced Zionists on this site, then it's me!

[Krasnodar]

This is understandable - but seriously, Zionism is the official ideology and practice of the state of Israel - supporting the repatriation of Jews from all over the world to the country, its settlement and development.

[3x3zsave]

Yeah. It was so. "Dry" is called. But in the middle of the 90s. Israel realized that the "young and strong" are not breaking into the promised land, but striving to settle in Canada and Germany, sending their own parents to kibbutzim on the Lebanese border. And he stopped this activity by founding the Hesed Abraham program.

[Krasnodar]

No way)). In the mid-90s, Germany allowed the emigration of Jews from Eastern Europe - who wanted to, moved. There are a lot of programs - the last interesting one is called Taglit - the arrival, arrangement and retraining of doctors with Jewish roots from the countries of the former USSR. I had the usual repatriation, but as a child in Israel I got into another program - Aliya Youth, in the kibbutz, by the way. Of the 17 participants in Israel, 10 remain. The rest are the States, France, Germany, Canada and I are Russia A good result, in principle, given the fact that I managed to pay taxes well and serve in the army - an urgent and a reserve.

[Okolotochny]

In the kibbutz, of course. So that's where the craving to raise the agriculture of the Kuban)))

[Krasnodar]

Greetings, Alex! Connect other things)). In kibbutz, the most interesting topic was avocado. Here - Semka SEC, and if the gardens - then a nut.

[Okolotochny]

Albert, hi. SEC - this is a purely clumsy topic, for outbid, butter, by the way, too)))

[Krasnodar]

We considered with the father-in-law the marginality of growing different crops - the SEC is it. They thought chickpeas were less profitable than wheat.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Kronos

Arabs fanatics Islamists, Jews fanatics Zionists

Oh, what kind of fanatics?
Rachel sits at the bank cash desk
And I'm sitting in the tank tower
And see on the horizon
As the Sinai burns with a bright flame
We get to the Red Sea
We get to the Black Sea
While Prime Minister Golda Meer
And the commander is the god of war, Moshe Dayan.
And the nations glorify
When we get there
When it rises above the sky
One day a six-pointed star

[3x3zsave]

Oh, something reminds me of this ...
"The more oak trees in the army,
The stronger the defense.
Let us give the Motherland an order,
Let's get to Washington! "

[Krasnodar]

She would like to live in Manhattan ..

[3x3zsave]

Yeah. She's like, "oh Lyuba-Lyuba, YouTube star"
And I, like: "I'm going to Magadan!"

[Krasnodar]

I had fun worse:
Girl - I want Sushi!
- Yes, in my favorite restaurant
- No, we went to (calls the analogue of Yakitoria), thinking that it had spun me cool.
- I gladly agree and go - savings of 70%

[3x3zsave]

She: I want sushi!
Me: And I want to go to Barcelona!
She: I want to go to Barcelona too!
Me: Lyuba, where are you, and where is Barcelona?
She sulks. As a result, we agree on a pair of "Bellew Creek" for her and a liter of "Dark Vasileostrovsky" for me.
PySy I visited Barcelona, ​​but not with her. She visited Antalya, 3 times, but not with me.

[Krasnodar]

Single mother from Ashdod (much closer to Gaza than to Tel Aviv):
- ... flew to me from Moscow, gave a ring from Bulgaria.
- From Bulgari?
- Well yes...
- I can give you from EM EN Er. Mongolian People Republic.
- And what is more expensive ..?
- Well, depending on where you fly ... if from Moscow, then MPR ...

[3x3zsave]

"Eh, you foolish people, emotionless women,
Your number is legion, and your name is self-interest! "(C)

[Krasnodar]

With the same girl
- Was yesterday at Factory 51 (brand clothing store) in Tel Aviv port
- I don’t like the audience there ...
- Well, yes - the DJs are left, the choice of a drink so
- Yeah, they pester me like that.
- Buy jeans, buy jeans?
- No, you're so beautiful ... let's drink
- Sellers of the women's department?
- No, the owner of the restaurant in (a hole in the vicinity of Tel Aviv)
- Shawarma falafel?
- (flirty) No, barbecue!

[3x3zsave]

Well, yes, somehow. You feel uncomfortable with stupid women. I don’t feel like offending, but there’s nothing to talk about. Boredom!

[Krasnodar]

How boring it is - you savor every minute of nonsense and make fun of it. )))
At one time, re-entertained with intellectuals, interesting personalities, bohemian and rich ...

[Moskovit]

Not surprisingly, the war between Arabs and Jews will be eternal.

[Krasnodar]

If I replace the batteries

[3x3zsave]

Album "Parting" 1986

[Krasnodar]

Quince! (yes in Arabic)

[3x3zsave]

I note that for most Arab citizens of Israel this intifada is like a sickle in the neck.

[Krasnodar]

Wow ... only at the beginning, just in case, they support their brothers with stone throwing on intercity routes and in their cities, and after two weeks they begin to count the bumps they received and the money they lost from trade.

[3x3zsave]

and in two weeks
In Bethlehem, right at once. In January 2018, it was noticeable that the next Palestinian hypertension annoys significantly more than Jews.

[Krasnodar]

Bethlehem is not an Israeli Arabs. And yes - the loss of tourism for them, especially during the Christmas-New Year holidays season is very, very critical.

[3x3zsave]

By the way, Albert. The frames of metal detectors and the total purge of bags in public places in Israel appeared before the "Lone Intifada" or as a result of it?

[Krasnodar]

Oh ... after the First Intifada
About Intifada Loners - everything was more fun
We thought with what to walk around the city - the nunchucks are the 80s, not stylish, the knives - they can shoot their own .. the self-sticks were an intermediate solution))
The case of the Loner who with terrorist-characteristic heroism attacked with a knife a couple of 70-year-olds who ate at the villa was indicative. But the dog woke up from the screams and the boy ran, having jumped over a small fence, to the neighbors. He burst into the kitchen, the householders warmed him with a hot frying pan - and the dog also jumped over the fence and still behind it ..., then, with dope, climbed up a high fence under barking and matyuki, jumped down and ... straight into the company of 17 year old youngsters. An Arab with a knife falls on top of reckless boobs .. they brought him to the hospital in a dying state, barely pumped

[3x3zsave]

And what, the nunchucks in Israel are allowed to carry freely?

[Krasnodar]

I think yes
But they must be able to use
Telescopic baton allowed
This is more serious
Familiar with the family walked, ran into such a knife
With his bare hands he roused, then the people arrived in time, finished off the terror
A guy with a bunch of cuts in the hospital, I ask him - but how, you are not an athlete. He says that he felt almost nothing when the Arab stabbed him with a knife.

[3x3zsave]

And in Russia you can get a real term. It is noteworthy that the Knesset, during the aforementioned intifada, recognized all citizens who have permission to carry a "firearm" as reservists called up for collection and allowed its use in cases of violence against third parties. That is, the state honestly admitted that it was not able to cope with the problem and called citizens to arms. And we have, damn it, "violation of the maximum permissible self-defense measures" !!!

[Krasnodar]

We have something that is not in Israel - the ability to resolve all issues

[3x3zsave]

Ha! Or not decide!

[Krasnodar]

Once again - more than in Israel
There she is absent in principle

[3x3zsave]

Could this be right?

[Krasnodar]

Of course it’s right. The question is mentality.

[3x3zsave]

Well yes. We have a traditional disbelief in the law.
"And they went, scorched by the sun,
Repeating: "God judge him!" (C)

[Krasnodar]

In Russia - make money, rubbish, the rest is all nonsense (C)

[3x3zsave]

Please clarify the difference between Israeli Arabs and Bethlehem Palestinians? I do not knowingly catch. Really interesting!

[Krasnodar]

Very simple - the first citizens of Israel, the second - the Palestinian Authority, plus the owners of Jordanian passports.

[3x3zsave]

So, in Israel there are two geril?

[Krasnodar]

None
Periodic bursts

[3x3zsave]

Doubtful statement. The question is in the attention of special services to the development of communication technologies. The last "periodic surge" was missed for this very reason.

[Krasnodar]

You talk about particulars. If by and large, a surge every 4-5 years. There are fewer casualties per 100 thousand of the population than in large countries such as the United States or the Russian Federation from crime or domestic killings. Israelis perceived as given. Once every 8 years, an uprising, once every 2-3 years - you are in full swing with Gaza, once every 10-15 years - war. Something like that.

[3x3zsave]

You are probably right. For 70 years, you can get used to this routine.

[Krasnodar]

The wife in 2014, with a third alarm, got used to the shelling of Tel Aviv from Gaza

[Operator]

Quote: VlR

TNF was almost defeated

What does the TNF have to do with it - most Algerians were against the French colonialists. In place of TNF No. 1, TNF No. 2 would come, that's all.

Even before the FLN, France pressed the Algerians in full - only one electoral qualification (1 French vote was equal to 9 Algerians) was worth what. The Algerians had every right to independently choose the direction of their development, the "black-footed" (constituting the overwhelming minority of the population of Algeria) were obliged to accept this.

[Aleksandr1971]

France did not press Algerian Arabs. If France pressed them, then there would be no Arabs in Algeria. Here Italy and Greece Arabs pressed when they settled in Sicily and Crete. Now there are no descendants of those Arabs on the named islands.

And the fact that the French introduced discriminatory qualifications in Algeria is such a trifle compared to real pressing!

Only the owner of the country has the full right to determine the development of the country. Until the middle of the 20th century, France was the owner of Algeria, which made a choice not in favor of its own, but in favor of strangers, in favor of the Arabs, who, by the way, were also not indigenous. And the reasons for this choice were the softness, weakness of the French and the fear of excessive spending money on the war. When the Arabs conquered Algeria in the 8th century (and at that time they were also an ethnic minority), they did not display such stupid qualities in themselves.

[Kronos]

In those days, everyone was cruel, which is unacceptable in the modern world. All countries released their colonies, or are the British too soft? Maybe it's just time to understand that the time of colonial empires has passed

[Aleksandr1971]

Since the mid-20th century, the world has become soft-bodied for various reasons. But it is possible that this trend is not forever. It is possible that further cruelty will increase. Look at civil warriors in the Congo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. The peoples of many countries, even developed ones, are starting to get poorer. Where poverty is, there is bitterness.

[Normal ok]

I used to think that De Gaulle did the right thing by leaving Algeria. I put it on a par with Indochina, where the French were really deservedly sent on their knees in the ass. But, the more I learn about the events in Algeria at that time and about what the victorious "revolutionaries" did to the country, the more I understand De Gaulle's wrongness and approve of the reaction of those who opposed him.

[Kronos]

Those who began to carry out terrorist attacks to prove that De Gaulle is wrong? Great guys only helped De Gaulle in his actions

[Operator]

Quote: Aleksandr1971

the right to determine the development of the country is only the owner

According to the UN Charter, the people in this country, and not another, have the right to determine the development of a country (up to self-determination).

[Aleksandr1971]

Until 1960, Algeria was part of France, so the people of France had the right to determine the development of Algeria as part of France, according to the UN Charter.

Another thing is that at that time there were also UN acts on the decolonization of overseas countries and territories. And Algeria was subject to these acts.

[Operator]

Algeria was not part of the French Republic, all of a sudden (otherwise French suffrage would, for example, apply to it). Algeria had the status of a member state of the French Union, the vast majority of the population of Algeria did not have French citizenship.

The UN Charter contains the right of any people to self-determination, France, as a member of the UN, was obliged to comply with the Charter or blame the hell out of the UN. That is why the USSR, the USA, Egypt and other UN member states had every right to support the Algerians in the struggle for their self-determination, which they did.

[Free wind]

The guy in the orders. My respect.

[Altona]

Saadi looks like Fredy Mercury, and Mathieu looks like Jean Claude Van Damme, if you comment on the photo to the article. Well, this is by the way. I knew one Algerian, studied (or just served out a room) and lived in our hostel (Moscow, 3-Balt. Lane), flaunting a French passport in front of our chickens. The character was reckless, carried a knife and often got involved in fights. I always wore a light beige raincoat and a "Stetson" hat, I don’t remember his name, but it’s like Maurice Barbier. Then it seems that either he was killed or he was someone and was expelled from the country, I don't remember. In general, having lived side by side with representatives of various races and nationalities, I dislike Arabs, Turks, Negroes, Koreans. Nothing personal, but I would not live next to them.

[Free wind]

Something like this.

[pmkemcity]

The author is well done, he paints pictures of "Venice scale". I would like to push him to analyze what was happening - who was behind the scenes? Angry Russians? Good Americans? Sly Jews? France, unlike England, was not a party to the conspiracy with America to denounce the colonial system. England left quietly, in English, but France obviously did not agree to such a thing. Here's a summary - strength has won over strength. The bayonet could defeat the aul, but he could not defeat America ... and the USSR, for I think they acted together.

[Altona]

Quote: pmkemcity

France obviously did not agree to this.

-------------------------
Ohh, France is such a separate colonial song. It also "belongs" to almost all of Africa, and France retains enormous influence in Africa. After all, what kind of sneeze happened, the Foreign Legion is already rushing to Mali, to Morocco, to the Congo, as if to some Marseille. I have a friend in the Congo who remembers France with a bad word, but nevertheless writes me in French, I answer him through an online translator - bonjour, tre bienne, merci and sil vu ple.

[Kronos]

That’s why they retain the influence that they left on time and all the same they kicked out but the connections would have been broken

[DeKo]

In 90, he went under the Norwegian flag, the captain, who is also a shipowner, was a former officer of the battalion Idel Ural. He loved to drink and was always drawn to speak Russian. (I was the only Russian-speaking one), He also told me that he was an instructor with Algerians in those years. He helped fight the Legion. Even the pictures were where he poses in camouflage, but with the attributes of Yiwu. He said that there were a lot of them. And in Algeria and Morocco and Africa. Former SSovtsy, Vlasovites, Bandera. And another was a shipshander in Antwerp. He, a former Vlasovite, fought in the Legion. Also, he said, many of their brothers fought in the Legion.

[DeKo]

I forgot to add: both the Suwak from Idel Ural and the Vlasovites got there through the ODESSa organization. Okay, the terrorists, but the French are cooperating with the SS men, yes.

[DeKo]

I was always amazed at the Ukrainians (of whom Sadists and murderers graze a lot on V. O. Budanov and other Russian officers, but what UkroVermaht and SS-BU do is normal. The fact that the Ukrainians burned the people in Odessa is nothing, that the Ukrain kills the people of Donbass, is also normal for Ukrainians