Military Review

Shipbuilding riddle of 2019, or When four equals five

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Shipbuilding riddle of 2019, or When four equals five

The head corvette of project 20386 at the beginning of the docking of the building blocks. April 23, 2019


2019 ended, this time even according to the old style, and a new, 2020th began. It makes sense to knock out some results in military shipbuilding.

In the construction of surface ships of the near sea zone everything is as before. Instead of multipurpose ships, at least light ones, RTOs continue to be laid, the purpose of which as specialized missile ships after the termination of the INF Treaty has lost all clarity. There is no end to the problems with the new minesweepers, and the old ones are not being modernized and their modernization is not planned.

Construction continues on "suitcases without handles" - Project 22160 patrol ships. Various small things continued to be built, but this is unlikely newsfrom which I wanted to clap.

Against this dull background, however, there were other events related to the construction of submarines and ships of the Far Sea Zone. There are quite joyful episodes, but there are those that would become such if some conditions came. Which, alas, did not come. But they still can. And there is a very scandalous mystery, the nature of which is still unclear, and which is worth telling in more detail.

When 4 = 5, or Where is the fifth warship?


February 20, 2019, speaking with the annual message to the Federal Assembly, Russian President V. Putin said:

“... in the near future, five surface ships of the far sea zone will be laid down, another sixteen ships of this class will be commissioned by the Navy until 2027.”

Later, on April 9, 2019, Minister of Defense S.K. Shoigu announcedthat on the same day at the Severnaya Verf shipyard there will be a docking of the blocks of the corvette 20386, which suddenly and without mentioning the previous stories of this ship (and it was formally laid back in October 2016 as the “Daring”) they began to call the name “Mercury”. The Mercury looked so ship out of nowhere that even people immersed in the topic began to figure out what it was and where it came from. Only closer to the point, it became clear that this is the same “Daring”.

Soon followed by the events that we all remember: the laying of ... four warships, two amphibious ships of the very strongly modified project 23 and two frigates of the project 11711 with a reinforced missile structure took place on April 22350 weaponsnamely, with three 3C-14 launchers instead of two, and accordingly with 24 units of percussion missile weapons (KR and RCC of the Caliber family, RCC Onyx, PLUR 91R, in the future - RCC Zircon) instead of 16 .

The fifth ship was not laid, but then the year was just beginning, there was a lot of time, and no one attached any importance to this.

And then the riddles began.

Around the same time as the laying of two frigates and two BDKs among people close to the Glavkomat and some "near-naval" structures of the Ministry of Defense, it was rumored that perhaps the fifth ship will be another 20386, which, as you know, can occasionally perform combat missions in the far sea zone. True, no one gave details, on the other hand, it was not surprising, the Glavkomat repeatedly voiced plans to have three such ships by 2025 (for example, through the lips of the former deputy commander-in-chief of Vice Admiral V.I. Bursuk), and in the "Program shipbuilding until 2050 ”there were (then) ten of them, as far as one can judge this, taking into account the secrecy of the document. And the plans for the laying of the second such ship were announced back in the fall of 2018, and in fact by that time, two years and one month after the laying, only steel cutting began for the lead “Daring-Mercury”. In general, it was impossible to exclude the bookmark of another 20386.

And in May, in the near-naval environment at the “profile” forum was one, judging by the reports, well-informed and “immersed” in this area, the anonymous was thrown the following.

Allegedly, on April 23, five ships were to be laid, one of which really should have become another 20386. However, the Navy was afraid of such a decision - after all, it is still unknown how, how and when the lead ship will turn out. What if it doesn’t work out at all?

But the VGKs have already reported that five ships will be laid, and he even announced it out loud. And then somewhere in the bowels of the Navy an “ingenious” plan arose - to rename the “Daring” into “Mercury”, urgently start building it, and on April 23, after docking the hull blocks, present the case so that this is the fifth ship promised to the president . However, someone got ahead of the creators and reported to the president in advance about the forgery, which ultimately ended with a question on his part “And the fifth ship promised when we lay it down?” But it’s somehow inconvenient, they promised five people, laid four. ” After that, the naval commanders had no choice but to save the skin, to answer that we would lay, they say, at the end of the year, in December. To which Putin asked to be sure to invite him to the bookmark.


This version looked simply hellishly naive and was completely ignored by everyone, without exception, as it was obviously unrealistic.


Vladimir Putin at the very ceremony at the Severnaya Verf shipyard. I wonder how he really relates to all this?

However, a little later something happened.

May 27, 2019 on the website of the Simferopol and Crimean diocese of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate appeared here is a message:

On May 26, in the framework of the "Mercury Day", with the support of the Department of Public Communications, the Department of Education, the Department of the Governor’s Office and the Government of Sevastopol, a ceremonial construction of cadets, cadets, young people and juniors took place.
During the event, the embedded board of the latest project 20386 Mercury rocket corvette was consecrated.
The consecration was performed by the assistant dean of the Sevastopol District Archpriest Stefan Slomchinsky.


With photos of the described event, for example, these:




And among them was this.



Mortgage Board. Ship name and bookmark date - new, project and order number old

The new name, the new bookmark date is the same, April 23rd.

And the order number (serial number of the ship under construction), the design and purpose are old, from Derzky. And this cannot be, but it is. Compare.


The same order number is the same ship under construction. But the rest of the data is different. How so?

What is the problem with this all?

The fact that there is no other reasonable explanation than replacing the ship. It cannot be that the order number has changed the bookmark date. And she is different on this board. And the board is "not just like that."

Firstly, the embedded board is made in accordance with GOST. It can be done in several copies, but only once, when bookmarking. And when laying the "Daring" she was made, by all the rules, and installed on the ship. A mortgage board is not a souvenir, it is in some sense an integral part of the ship (even copies that are not attached to it). The new embedded board is made in accordance with GOST and does not differ from the real one in anything.

Secondly, the question is the date on the “mortgage” board. As some comrades later explained, it is, they say, a symbol of the continuity of the traditions of the old Mercury with the new. But why is it bookmarked on April 23rd? Due to the docking of the housing units? But this is not the beginning of construction, the beginning is laying in 2016, and the beginning of the building is cutting steel, and it began in November 2018. Renaming? But S.K. Shoigu voiced the fact of renaming long before that.

What did the souvenir authors want to show on the bookmark date of April 23, 2019 and the correct order number?


Maybe still give the old ship a new one?

So it turns out that the only consistent explanation for this big top is the very conspiracy theological version of the re-laying of the “Impudent Mercury”. And the event with the "artists" in the old form looks like due to someone’s oversight the part of the "PR company" that has not been canceled in time.

Did the fifth surface ship of the far sea zone lay in 2019?

It depends on what it means. On November 27, 2019 at the Admiralty Shipyards, the patrol icebreaker Nikolay Zubov, project 23350, was laid down. This ship, which is quite necessary for the country, has a long range, about 10 kilometers, by economic means. And the bookmark of this ship was invited VV Putin Adjusted for three days until December, everything turned out as the anonymous claimed.


Model 23350 patrol icebreaker

It seems like now the fleet there is something to hide behind, and here, at the expanded board of the Ministry of Defense S.K. Shoigu reports:

For the first time in the modern history of Russia, the Navy is simultaneously building 22 ships in the far sea zone. Five ships were laid down this year, and there will be eight more next year.


But where is the fifth? It was laid four, two frigates and two BDK! There was no fifth!


With all due respect to the icebreakers and the long range of this ship, it cannot be attributed to the DMZ ships, if only because the entire NSR is the near sea zone, and it is intended to work in it. In the DMZ during the ongoing military operations, such a ship will not be able to perform tasks - there will not be enough weapons on board or speed. He is not combat, he is patrol.

Obviously, the conspiracy theological version materialized.

Other facts also work in her favor, for example, the former commander-in-chief Korolev was fired precisely after April 23, and at the ceremony he was put demonstratively far from the president. True, by that time it was already known that it was decided to get rid of him, but what was the “last straw”? Isn't the information about such a daring scam?

In addition, the anonymous author who disseminated the version of the false “re-laying” of the “Daring Mercury” said that his sistership, which they wanted to mortgage at Severnaya Verf as order No. 1010, had not been mortgaged due to technical risks. And from past articles about this project (see “Worse than a crime. Construction of the corvettes project 20386 - error ", “Corvette 20386. Continuation of the scam » и “Is alteration of the project 20386 planned?”) the list of technical risks is clear (and it is far from complete).

So, for example, there is still no prototype of the 6RP gearbox, which should link the operation of electric motors of economic progress and gas afterburner turbines. Moreover, it is not known exactly when he will be, and this despite the fact that the director of the Severnaya Verf Shipyard Ponomaryov promised that in 2021 the ship would be launched. And this cannot be done until the body is formed, and when the body of the power plant is formed, it is fully assembled in it. And it can not be assembled without gears.

So there are risks, because of which it is not worth laying another 20386, they have not disappeared.

It is not surprising that after this, among those who were interested, rumors actively circulated that the “Daring” was not just renamed, but rather reloaded on some kind of amended project, and that it had been “counted” as the laying of a new ship.

It is difficult to say what the real background of all these events is, but one way or another, this story looks extremely strange. And it’s not good. After all, whatever it was, and whatever the Ministry of Defense would say now, the president promised five ships. And in fact they laid four. I would like to believe that the Navy and the military-industrial complex will no longer throw such puzzles to society. Although, knowing the desperate courage generated by dozens of years of impunity, the courage of comrades who have an influence on Russian naval shipbuilding, nothing can be guaranteed.

And if the attempt forgery really took place, then it is quite possible that this is far from the last such somersault. And not even the last “throw” of President Putin by the Navy and the defense industry, because Putin is finalizing his last term, and after that the whole situation with shipbuilding can be simply “reset” by cutting the unfinished ships into metal and forgetting about them - as it was already not once. Money spent, thank you all, everyone is free, to new bookmarks.

They will explain to the people that it’s necessary, as they previously explained the necessity and correctness of the transition from warships (20385 for example) to non-combat ships (22160 for example), and the people will again believe, and in three years they will forget about everything and will rejoice at new victories. Who, for example, remembers today such a project as 12441? Unfinished and dumped minesweepers? No one.

And the “Cheeky Mercury", if necessary, will be forgotten, and everyone will be fine.

But here’s what was under the fifth ship, it would be better for the Ministry of Defense to clarify, so that at least in the future such inconsistencies would not hurt anyone’s eyes. So that at least the ends can then be hidden. Four cannot be equal to five, without regard to what all this was.
Author:
Photos used:
Alexander Polunin / sudostroenie.info, "Sevastopol Deanery" /hersones.org, korabli.eu, bastion-karpenko.ru
84 comments
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  1. Far B
    Far B 15 January 2020 06: 04 New
    +18
    and after three years, he will forget about everything and will rejoice at new victories.
    In three? Yes, we have some especially gifted after a year they don’t remember anything. With joy, they rush to vote for those for whom it is necessary. And while those in power are in power, the era of impunity will continue.
    1. GKS 2111
      GKS 2111 15 January 2020 06: 10 New
      +4
      Quote: Far In
      In three? Yes, we have some especially gifted after a year they don’t remember anything. With joy, they rush to vote for those for whom it is necessary.

      The trouble is that the main electorate of EdRa does not read the news, but watches them on a zombie hunter!
      Money spent, thank you all, everyone is free, to new bookmarks.
      They will explain to the people that it’s necessary, as they previously explained the necessity and correctness of the transition from warships (20385 for example) to non-combat ships (22160 for example), and the people will again believe, and in three years they will forget about everything and will rejoice at new victories. Who, for example, remembers today such a project as 12441? Unfinished and dumped minesweepers? No one.

      But here’s what was under the fifth ship, it would be better for the Ministry of Defense to clarify, so that at least in the future such inconsistencies would not hurt anyone’s eyes.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 15 January 2020 10: 00 New
        +7
        What is the first time, or what? Really forgotten a similar story in our space industry? I remember a few years ago, when Rogozin was only appointed to the post of "leader" of the space industry, and he was not as fat as he is now, they showed on TV how he ran around the rocket factory with a pile of papers in his hands and yelled at him working, subordinates of the type (I don’t remember verbatim): "There should be 12 missiles on the papers (I don’t remember the exact number)! Eight missiles were launched - here, launch reports, one on the" table ", one on the assembly! Suppose these parts , what I see here is enough for one more missile, but for anyone, where is another missile that has already been manufactured for papers long ago? "The subordinates from the factory, their eyes lower, shrug their heads in dismay-" Rocket ..... where- here ....... or it’s already launched and it flew away ...... " wassat yes
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 15 January 2020 11: 43 New
      +2
      Far, but do you have the ADEQUATE OPPOSITION LEADER in mind?
      That's why we endure this whole mess, because there is no person who covers this whole shop.
      I constantly say: A REQUIRED PERSONALITY IS REQUIRED to lead the opposition!
      1. 16329
        16329 1 March 2020 19: 51 New
        0
        Opposition in Russia under any regime - a bunch of spies and pests
        1. Dr. Watson
          Dr. Watson 26 March 2020 21: 32 New
          -1
          Nevertheless, the regime in every possible way contains it (the opposition), cherishes and takes care of, naturally, exclusively for Russian money (life, health, youth, etc.).
          d.)
          Don't you think that the regime and the opposition are the same thing?
      2. Dr. Watson
        Dr. Watson 26 March 2020 21: 27 New
        0
        Let us make you the leader of the real opposition.
        You are quite adequate, with a good grip, etc.
        What do you think are your chances of taking the throne?
        Will they miss you far?
  2. polar fox
    polar fox 15 January 2020 06: 06 New
    +13
    that the author got to the bottom of the fifth ship? ... it’s “who needs the ship” ... in Sochi he will put next to a couple of previous ones.
    1. seti
      seti 15 January 2020 10: 13 New
      +3
      Here is the answer
  3. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 15 January 2020 06: 28 New
    +10
    Alexander! good
    The Ministry of Defense would be better to clarifyso that at least in the future such inconsistencies would not hurt anyone’s eyes.

    Holy naivety ... Who can clarify? This can be required from professionals - business people.
    We have people in Russia whose duty it is to explain:

    It seems that the authorities gathered support for what has already fallen and will never rise again ...
  4. Amateur
    Amateur 15 January 2020 06: 40 New
    -1
    Simferopol and Crimean diocese of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate appeared

    Interesting! The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize the accession of Crimea to the Russian Federation?
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 15 January 2020 08: 28 New
      +6
      They are afraid of sanctions; foreign assets may be arrested. laughing
  5. jonht
    jonht 15 January 2020 07: 15 New
    +2
    Actually, in essence of the article.
    If this was the place to be (forgery), it will all come out.
    If they did re-bookmarking, did they remove the old tablet or not? If removed, they can attach to the frame and say here the mortgage "Dersky", we decided not to finish building until we roll back the head one (reloaded). And then you can not finish building it at all, because the main thing was to lay five .....
    This is my vision of the situation. hi
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 January 2020 11: 04 New
      0
      I’m not sure what exactly the re-laying was. But if the mortgage board was changed, it was necessary to set the bookmark date correctly, but it looks like it’s not clear what.
      1. jonht
        jonht 15 January 2020 12: 07 New
        +1
        I agree with how this looks clear too, I'm just discussing how they can get out of this situation. And my option is very viable. hi
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 January 2020 12: 30 New
          +2
          YES will not get out.

          We traditionally have one answer to everything: this is victory, and it is necessary!

          And that's all.
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl 17 January 2020 21: 05 New
            0
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            YES will not get out.
            ?! What are you hinting at, Alexander, that in the future, -
            Quote: timokhin-aa

            It seems like now the fleet has something to hide behind, and now, at the expanded board of the Ministry of Defense S.K. Shoigu reports:

            For the first time in modern Russian history for the Navy at the same time 22 ships of the far sea zone are under construction. This year, mortgaged five ships next will be eight more.
            ...?! request those. no more than 6 ?! negative
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And that's all.
            ?! winked
  6. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 15 January 2020 07: 29 New
    -1
    During the event, the embedded board of the latest project 20386 Mercury rocket corvette was consecrated.

    Very antiresno, but a bottle of Chimpanzee shattered about the Ent board? what
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 15 January 2020 08: 28 New
      +4
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      and a bottle of chimpanzee shattered about entu board?

      Two! laughing
  7. Timeout
    Timeout 15 January 2020 08: 21 New
    +11
    In principle, it’s useless to look for something in our Moscow Region ... That Taburetkin sawed the money, and Kozhugetych saws from old memory after the Ministry of Emergencies. Mortgaged, mortgaged, and in fact there will be ships at the wall, like project 22460 watchmen that the FSB ordered for border guards. Chinese diesel engines consume fuel so that the tanks empty after launch. But they didn’t lay it, so they will share finances among themselves, after all, they have mastered 20 trillion.
  8. rudolff
    rudolff 15 January 2020 08: 25 New
    +13
    The story with Mercury is all the flowers. Berries will be in a year, when they begin to report on the results of the rearmament program. Putin already announced in December that "everything is fine, a marquise," and that the share of modern weapons in the Navy in the 20th year, as planned, will be 70 percent. And this despite the fact that the shipbuilding program for all major projects has gone far to the right. For years to the right. The only way to achieve the promised figure is to reduce the fleet's naval composition. Or just lie, as is the case with Mercury. And I don’t think that the president was set up here.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 15 January 2020 09: 53 New
      +6
      Quote: rudolff
      will be 70 percent.

      And if you rename all the ships under construction, the fleet replenishment rates will be exceeded! wassat
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 January 2020 11: 01 New
      +5
      Well, lying doesn’t come out somehow. The Internet, everything is in sight, any student can get a card for every construction site in the country.

      I think something will be different. No wonder the models flashed in the news, they would shovel the PK-50 at least.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 15 January 2020 14: 34 New
        +3
        I think something will be different. No wonder the models flashed in the news, they would shovel the PK-50 at least.

        In your opinion, is it possible that they will take stock and officially recognize that the fleet rearmament program has not been implemented? After all, this is simple in the first place. And secondly, this is a good first step in working on bugs.
        1. timokhin-aa
          15 January 2020 14: 44 New
          +2
          I don’t know, our propaganda has gained such momentum that it’s scary. Plus political leaders.
          So I believe in this with difficulty.
          Although it would be right to recognize the jambs and start eliminating them. The people would understand.
          1. Nemchinov Vl
            Nemchinov Vl 22 January 2020 01: 42 New
            0
            And what is known about the 8 warships planned for laying to replenish the Navy for 2020 ?! Let's say 2 is the UDC planned in Kerch on the “Gulf”, and then what ?! What exactly are 6 more units ?!
            1. timokhin-aa
              22 January 2020 11: 58 New
              0
              Not yet. I think that there should be frigates 22350, at least two, but this is my personal opinion.

              With the highest probability to continue to rivet "Karakurt". I won’t say anything else.
    3. jonht
      jonht 15 January 2020 12: 15 New
      0
      Rudolph, you forgot about the little thing that they build for the Navy in a lot, and if you take the percentage by the number, not taking into account the rank of the ships and their displacement, and even taking into account the supply vessels ... I think the very 70% will be pulled, but that's just the average the temperature in the hospital is like 36,6, but only for some reason the patients are dying. hi
  9. Ka-52
    Ka-52 15 January 2020 08: 54 New
    -8
    Timokhin mixed up the rubric Armament and Opinion. Like the commentators above
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 January 2020 10: 57 New
      +8
      The column is not chosen by Timokhin. And the opinion here is not mine, but that person who was great at predicting the course of events.
  10. stepka_razin
    stepka_razin 15 January 2020 13: 01 New
    +3
    And where did the money allocated for the fifth ship go?)
    1. ser56
      ser56 15 January 2020 13: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: stepka_razin
      And where did the money allocated for the fifth ship go?)

      not a polite question ... repeat
    2. timokhin-aa
      15 January 2020 14: 15 New
      +3
      So they were not allocated.
      1. stepka_razin
        stepka_razin 15 January 2020 15: 04 New
        -3
        So they were not allocated

        So if they didn’t allocate, then what bookmark is required, or were they even pulled before they were allocated?
  11. pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 15 January 2020 13: 21 New
    -2
    Sam vosem, nebolshe!
  12. Alexey Petrovichev
    Alexey Petrovichev 15 January 2020 14: 25 New
    +1
    I completely agree. Although 12441 are not minesweepers, but one TFR.
    1. timokhin-aa
      15 January 2020 14: 45 New
      -2
      There "or" had to be put.
  13. LomKuvaldych
    LomKuvaldych 15 January 2020 14: 31 New
    -1
    Is Putin embarrassed by empty promises?
  14. g1v2
    g1v2 15 January 2020 16: 47 New
    +2
    The fifth bookmark is Nikolai Zubov. The author gave out streams of selected feces to the mountain, and at least did not bother to browse through the lists of bookmarks. Although why should he? Shovel, feces, fan. Take more, throw - further.
    1. loki565
      loki565 15 January 2020 19: 03 New
      -1
      Nda funny happened)))
    2. alexmach
      alexmach 15 January 2020 20: 03 New
      +1
      Hmm .. did you even read the article before commenting did not bother? Or at least see pictures there?
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 16 January 2020 10: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: g1v2
      The fifth bookmark is Nikolai Zubov. The author gave out streams of selected feces to the mountain, and at least did not bother to browse through the lists of bookmarks. Although why should he? Shovel, feces, fan. Take more, throw - further.

      But if you still read the article before commenting? wink
      About “Zubov” it is directly written there that it is not a warship and not a DMZ.
      With all due respect to the icebreakers and the long range of this ship, it cannot be attributed to the DMZ ships, if only because the entire NSR is the near sea zone, and it is intended to work in it. In the DMZ during the ongoing military operations, such a ship will not be able to perform tasks - there will not be enough weapons on board or speed. He is not combat, he is patrol.
      1. timokhin-aa
        16 January 2020 11: 33 New
        +1
        And even the picture is.
        But it seems like the cognitive dissonas hit somewhere in the middle of the article and he just couldn’t read it to the icebreaker, he couldn’t. laughing
        Could not stand the heart.
      2. g1v2
        g1v2 16 January 2020 17: 03 New
        +4
        You can write a lot. But Nikolai Zubov is precisely a warship and DMZ. What was announced more than once. And this is exactly the fifth bookmark, which was also announced. And in the list of bookmarks throughout the year it was meant to be. Why did the author decide that an armed ship with missiles and artillery with a displacement of more than 9 thousand tons and an autonomous vehicle for more than 70 days is not combat and not a DMZ, I’m xs. In terms of displacement, this is actually a ship of the first rank. During WWII, armed icebreakers were classified as auxiliary cruisers. Of course, the author may think that he wants, but he inflated the article from scratch. request
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 16 January 2020 19: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: g1v2
          Why did the author decide that an armed ship with missiles and artillery with a displacement of more than 9 thousand tons and an autonomous vehicle for more than 70 days is not combat and not DMZ

          What rockets? Container "calibers" that exist only in the form of an exhibition module and are not officially ordered?
          And about the "combat" ... let's put on the "Amber" AK-176 and two containers with "calibers" - and call it the "ship DMZ".
          Quote: g1v2
          During WWII, armed icebreakers were classified as auxiliary cruisers.

          That's it - auxiliary. A special class introduced in order not to confuse mobilized civilian vessels with normal warships.

          Especially in Zubov, it is pleasing that, as with pr. 22160, most of the tasks announced for him are not related to the Navy.
          I wonder how long the weapons will last on this icebreaker? The previous patrol icebreakers, Project 97P, ordered for the Navy (not for the MCHPV), the naval disarmed several years later and transferred to the class of ordinary ICE.
          1. g1v2
            g1v2 17 January 2020 00: 23 New
            +3
            Well, for starters, at the last exhibition, they showed a model already with built-in USC. Tch as it will be in the end we will see. Secondly, do I really need to explain the difference between a ship and a ship on a military site? Thirdly, the icebreaker and the ice class patrol ship are different things and their purposes are different. Fourth. where did you get the idea that the tasks declared for 22160 are not related to the Navy? WHO TELL YOU SUCH A BAD? belay FSB ships patrol the border and their territorial waters. Everything beyond them is the sphere of activity of the Navy.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 17 January 2020 10: 35 New
              +2
              Quote: g1v2
              Thirdly, the icebreaker and the ice class patrol ship are different things and their purposes are different.

              Mwa ha ha ... well, look at the history of naval icebreakers, etc. 97P.
              They were designed and ordered for the Navy just like patrol icebreakers - with weapons. And several years they passed in this class. And then the Soviet Navy no longer wondered what it was, removed the armament and radar equipment (except for navigational) from patrol ICEs and transferred these “doves of the world” to the category of base point supply vessels. laughing
              Quote: g1v2
              Fourth. where did you get the idea that the tasks declared for 22160 are not related to the Navy? WHO TELL YOU SUCH A BAD?

              Ships of project 22160 are designed to protect territorial waters, patrol the economic zone in open and closed seas, prevent smuggling and piracy, search and provide assistance to victims of maritime disasters, environmental monitoring of the environment, to protect ships and vessels crossing the sea, as well as military -sea bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment in wartime.

              © General Director of JSC A. Zelenodolsk Plant named after A.M. Gorky »Renat Mistakhov
              Terrorist protection - BOHR FSB.
              Economy Zone Patrol - Bohr FSB.
              Smuggling Suppression - FSBR BOHR.
              Assistance to victims - usually also the FSB Bohr.
              The protection of ships and vessels at the transition by sea, as well as naval bases and water areas in order to warn of an attack by various enemy forces and equipment in wartime, cannot be carried out due to the lack of full-fledged detection tools (primarily ASG) and defeat at least in the volume of the IPC.

              22160 - this is a typical PSKR, which for some reason was shoved into the Navy, while killing the work on the corps IWR. And now, in the Navy, they are tearing hair on their bald patches and want to upgrade the 30-35-year-old Albatrosses.
              1. g1v2
                g1v2 17 January 2020 12: 51 New
                0
                I repeat, the FSB is engaged in these things ONLY within its territory. Beyond them, all this is the responsibility of the Navy. Further, ships should be protected not only from submarines. There are currently no submarines wishing to attack our ships. But surface means - more than enough.
                And they are going to modernize not only the MPK, but also the MRK and RCA, which are not too old. In my opinion, the IPC as a class is not needed, but additional orders of 2038x corvettes are needed. By the way, when the MRK was laid at the NSCA, the naval ones just said that they were breaking through an additional order of 20380 for Pacific Fleet to make them 10, plus two 20385. This is enough to cover the needs of the Pacific Fleet.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 17 January 2020 17: 14 New
                  +2
                  Quote: g1v2
                  I repeat, the FSB is engaged in these things ONLY within its territory. Beyond them, all this is the responsibility of the Navy.

                  Protecting the watercourse outside the watercourse? And curbing smuggling before crossing the border? What, we will delay for intentions and thought crime - your honor, the accused did not commit a violation, but intended it? wink
                  By the way, in the event of violation of the border, the FSB Bohr has the right to prosecute the offender even in neutral waters, right up to the terrorist water of another state.
                  And by the way, how can you patrol the economy zone outside the economy zone?
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Ships of project 22160 are intended for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling the economic zone in open and closed seas,

                  Quote: g1v2
                  And they are going to modernize not only the MPK, but also the MRK and RCA, which are not too old.

                  We do not have not too old IPC. Their construction ended in 1994, and the bulk of them are generally Soviet-built.
                  Quote: g1v2
                  In my opinion, the IPC as a class is not needed, but additional orders of 2038x corvettes are needed.

                  So the Navy also wanted to replace the IPC with OVR corvettes. But Chirkov covered all the work on them, ordering instead “peace doves” pr. 22160.
                  On the 2038x series, there are too many air defense and strike weapons to the detriment of the anti-aircraft defense. The Navy wanted an inexpensive corvette, sharpened for anti-aircraft defense, with a helicopter, and with self-defense air defense, capable of fighting off one or two anti-ship missiles missed by other air defense systems at the near boundary. All the same, IWR works under the umbrella of air defense and coastal defense of the naval base.
                  1. g1v2
                    g1v2 17 January 2020 17: 46 New
                    0
                    For example, to patrol the Syrian waters or the areas of the African coast of the FSB that interest us? And in the case of the installation of a blockade of some coast, for example, will the Libyan FSB also be? And do our ships escort outside our tervod? And intercept strangers? request
                    In my opinion, a serious defense for the corvette is a prime necessity. The BMZ defense ship should have both a decent plane and excellent air defense. To beat off, for example, a kick like that. what mattresses inflicted on Syria. Or defend a convoy or coastal area. Or to prevent enemy aircraft frolic in our zone. By the way, Virginia carries tomahawks - it’s up to them to intercept the corvette and must be able to.
                    And strike weapons are self-defense weapons. If the corvette had to use it. that means the captain did something wrong. hi
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 20 January 2020 11: 04 New
                      +2
                      Quote: g1v2
                      For example, to patrol the Syrian waters or the areas of the African coast of the FSB that interest us? And in the case of the installation of a blockade of some coast, for example, will the Libyan FSB also be?

                      In the event of the establishment of a blockade of the coast 22160 by themselves will be useless. As it turned out to be useless American LCS, who also planned to use in one person against wild zoosul - And now the Yankees admit that without the support of full-fledged EM URO, LCS operation is impossible even on secondary TVDs. Because nowadays almost any country or even a more or less large group may be the owner of the SCRC. And there is nothing to fight off RCC 22160.
                      The maximum where 22160 can be sent painlessly is Somalia. And even then it’s not a fact that they can be on duty in the ocean.

                      And yes, patrolling the Syrian waters and the waters of the African coast, of course, is extremely important for the fleet, which is unable to provide even PLO and PMO in the area of ​​the SSBN bases. We have two new TSCs for all fleets, the IWR is about to die, because it consists of ships that still remember the Swordfish - but we will order patrol ships for African waters.
                      Quote: g1v2
                      In my opinion, a serious defense for the corvette is a prime necessity. The BMZ defense ship should have both a decent plane and excellent air defense. To beat off, for example, a kick like that. what mattresses inflicted on Syria. Or defend a convoy or coastal area.

                      And instead of the PLO corvette, we get 1155. And even 1164. In the amount of two or three pieces and in ten years. Cool replacement of the top ten MPC for each fleet.
                      PLO Corvette must deal with PLO. And not air defense. Universalization on small ships only leads to the appearance of mediocrity, unable to do anything normally.

                      And to work on the Tomahawks, you need normal air defense - based on IA and air defense systems. And an order from above to open fire. The latter is most important, otherwise you can at least put S-100500 on the ships, but there will be no sense. In the same Syria, the VKS had all the strength to repel the strike of the Tomahawks.
                      1. g1v2
                        g1v2 20 January 2020 15: 30 New
                        +1
                        To strike a pcr, the enemy needs a ship to begin to detect. The Saudis, for example, due to the absence of such a ship, cannot fully block the coast of Yemen and the Hussites constantly receive weapons from Iran by sea. They will not be useless.
                        Each vegetable has its own task. At the Russia-Africa summit, we signed contracts and agreements for a trillion rubles. Investments must be protected. Moreover, whether there will be a big war in the coming decades or not. Moreover, the SSBNs will probably not be used as intended for the entire service, and 22160 will and will carry out their tasks.
                        Minesweepers are being built. In principle, the Middle Nevsky Plant reaches the pace of 2 minesweepers per year. There are already 4 new minesweepers in the Black Sea Fleet, which is most in need of minesweepers, located in the database zone and near all hot spots. Vaughn Pikul is already grazing Tartus. Theoretically, by the end of the year I should get one more. Further Pacific Fleet. After 5 years, the severity of the problem will be solved. Each fleet will have at least 2-3 new minesweepers. At the Black Sea Fleet - 5.
                        Corvettes are being built for OVR. It’s shitty that 20386 has been under construction for the Northern Fleet for a long time and for the Black Sea Fleet they have not even begun to build them. But BF 4 corvette already has. 2 more under construction. The Pacific Fleet breaks for itself after the end of the batch of 4 pieces 20380 and 2 30385 building another 6 pieces 20380. Maybe they will break through. At least on the bookmark of the last MRK at AHA, they talked about this.
                        1155 we will not receive. This is a ship dmz. Corvettes 2038x are more than 2 times smaller than it. In general, in BMZ, we now have the same principle that was in Soviet times in DMZ. A bunch of a defense ship (corvette 2038x) with an attack ship (mrk). And in DMZ, on the contrary, they switched to the station wagon 22350 instead of the bundle 1155-956. If you need to build 10 years, then we will build 10 years. We have time to build a fleet. It is more important to bring shipbuilding into the right types so that it is able to build everything that is needed. The ships themselves are now secondary. request
                        In the event of a serious mess and an attack on our facilities, an order from above will not be required. I mentioned the tomahawks strike in Syria as an example of the typical use of American ships against coastal targets. It was a reference hit in fact. The main purpose of AUG and Berkov is precisely to strike along the coast of the Kyrgyz Republic and by aviation. In the event of a convoy strike, instead of tomahawks there will be harpoons, which the corvettes must also cope with. request
                        In general, we started from a completely different perspective. It was about Zubov, and we already went to the concept of building the fleet as a whole.
        2. timokhin-aa
          16 January 2020 21: 08 New
          0
          Why did the author decide that an armed ship with missiles and artillery, with a displacement of more than 9 thousand tons and an autonomous vehicle for more than 70 days, was not combat and not a DMZ, I’m xs.


          Since the seas of the Arctic Ocean washing Russia are BMZ.
          1. g1v2
            g1v2 17 January 2020 00: 18 New
            +1
            Is the whole ocean bmz? belay And what prevents these patrolmen from going to the shores of Canada, for example, or to Greenland? Or even to Antarctica? WITH A RESERVE OF CARS THAT 70 DAYS? By the way I’ll reveal a secret. Ships 22160 - this is also a DMZ. wink
            1. timokhin-aa
              17 January 2020 09: 58 New
              +1
              There are regulatory documents. According to them, coastal seas are BMZ. That is, from the Barents to the Chukchi Sea, inclusively, this is BMZ.

              In some cases, I don’t remember the details right now, but the BMZ border was specified in the form of a border at a certain distance from the coast, usually 600-700 km.
  15. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 15 January 2020 21: 13 New
    0
    like Timokhin’s everything is mysterious, right. How many rumors strike our ears,
    How many gossip corrodes like a moth,
    For example, there are rumors
    As if everything will rise in price absolutely,
    And especially table salt.

    And like flies here and there
    There are rumors about home
    And toothless old women
    They are carried around the minds
    They are carried around the minds.

    Listen, heard, they’re building a city underground,
    And they say in the case of a nuclear war,
    Yes you heard, baths soon
    All will close everywhere
    Forever and this information is true.

    And like flies here and there
    There are rumors about home
    And toothless old women
    They are carried around the minds
    They are carried around the minds.

    And you know, Mamykina is being filmed,
    For his debauchery, for drunkenness, for brawl,
    And by the way, your neighbor is being taken away, a villain,
    Because he looks like Beria.

    And like flies here and there
    There are rumors about home
    And toothless old women
    They are carried around the minds
    They are carried around the minds.

    Oh, what's going on, they dug a trench yesterday,
    So dug two brandy jets,
    They say that spies poisoned the moonshine,
    Well, the bread is now from fish scales.

    And like flies here and there
    There are rumors about home
    And toothless old women
    They are carried around the minds
    They are carried around the minds.

    And they sing to each other in a whisper, in a cry,
    A bad hearing always sounds in the mouth of a whooper
    And people are not used to good rumors,
    They say that this is fiction and nonsense.

    And like flies here and there
    There are rumors about home
    And toothless old women
    They are carried around the minds
    They are carried around the minds.

    Tempered in many messes
    Rumors are spreading without knowing the barriers
    There is gossip that will not
    More rumors are absolutely
    There are rumors that gossip will be banned.

    And like flies here and there
    There are rumors about home
    And toothless old women
    They are carried around the minds
    They are spread across the minds. A ghost castle .....
    1. LeonidL
      LeonidL 16 January 2020 04: 43 New
      -5
      The task of the Timokhins is to throw something with pictures, and the people together will pick up from the traditional dislike for power, but in general to those who are more successful, have achieved more in life. They are by definition definitely thieves, corrupt officials, fools, mafiosi ... this Pulp Fiction of Canadian guardians of Russia from the club of old Soros friends is already tired.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 16 January 2020 10: 31 New
        +2
        That is, the author is wrong and the fifth ship of the DMZ in 2019 was still laid down? And what kind of ship is this? wink
        1. Vladimir1155
          Vladimir1155 16 January 2020 11: 04 New
          0
          it was an icebreaker
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 16 January 2020 11: 07 New
            +2
            Quote: vladimir1155
            it was an icebreaker

            With all due respect to the icebreakers and the long range of this ship, it cannot be attributed to the DMZ ships, if only because the entire NSR is the near sea zone, and it is intended to work in it. In the DMZ during the ongoing military operations, such a ship will not be able to perform tasks - there will not be enough weapons on board or speed. He is not combat, he is patrol.

            Let then supply vessels, sea tugs and GUGI-shi GISU also relate to surface ships of the far sea zone.
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 16 January 2020 19: 11 New
              -3
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Let then supply vessels, sea tugs, and GUGI-shi GISU also belong to surface ships of the far sea zone.
              I support, it is certainly surface ships, and unconditionally able to cross the ocean .....
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 16 January 2020 19: 29 New
                +1
                Quote: vladimir1155
                I support, it is certainly surface ships, and unconditionally able to cross the ocean .....

                And if you recall that in the WWII, even 110-foot PT-shkons (they are BO-2) were driven across the Atlantic on their own ... this is how many surface ships of the far sea zone we can count. smile
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 16 January 2020 19: 31 New
                  0
                  But is it possible to walk across the oceans without the PMO?
          2. timokhin-aa
            16 January 2020 21: 10 New
            +1
            The seas of the Arctic Ocean washing Russia are related to BMZ
            1. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 16 January 2020 21: 20 New
              0
              it depends on where to count ... if from Murmansk, then not quite BMZ
              1. timokhin-aa
                16 January 2020 23: 08 New
                0
                They never think so, the near and far zones are PURPOSED.
                In some cases, the distance from the coastline may be specified.
                And all the icebreakers are BMZ ships. With no exceptions.
                1. Vladimir1155
                  Vladimir1155 17 January 2020 10: 26 New
                  -1
                  who appointed? they need to be reassigned to correspond to reality ..... and in general, what difference does the RF have how many surface ships if they are all the same unfit for lack of minesweepers? and in peacetime useless "cruising" can be entrusted even to a dry cargo ship, and even more so an icebreaker .....
                  1. timokhin-aa
                    17 January 2020 10: 28 New
                    +2
                    1. Assigned to the Navy.

                    2. Write to Sportloto.

                    You can think of anything, but in reality, an icebreaker is a patrol ship to work in the BMZ, he needs range for more effective patrol tasks.

                    That's all. No need to invent the essence, in fact there was no fifth ship.
                    1. Vladimir1155
                      Vladimir1155 17 January 2020 10: 29 New
                      -1
                      you say that there is no icebreaker, but he is! what
                      is the Navy appointed BMZ? maybe it was approved by the commander in chief? then it can be canceled, And where can the icebreaker go to Antarctica, if necessary, to protect the sector of the Russian Federation, is it also a BMZ assigned by an impersonal Navy?
                      1. timokhin-aa
                        17 January 2020 11: 57 New
                        +2
                        Well, how can the arguments SO end? There is an icebreaker and it is not for DMZ. This is written in the article and even the picture is with an icebreaker.

                        And Antarctica where can an icebreaker go if necessary to protect the sector of the Russian Federation, is it also a BMZ assigned by an impersonal Navy?


                        It was not built for this, and it is impossible to consider it a DMZ ship.
                      2. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 17 January 2020 17: 53 New
                        -1
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Well, how can the arguments SO end? Icebreaker is

                        excellent, I'm glad you put up with the evidence,
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        It was not built for this, and it is impossible to consider it a DMZ ship.
                        these are your allegations. You cannot know why it was built (you are not yet the commander of the Navy), and why it cannot be considered a DMZ ship, if its displacement, power reserve and other objective parameters clearly make it a DMZ ship? except your baseless and subjective "impossible" I do not see the arguments .....
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Well, how can the arguments SO end?
                        If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, then this is a duck!
                      3. timokhin-aa
                        17 January 2020 21: 14 New
                        +2
                        Vladimir, where does the power reserve? The Chukchi Sea is the BMZ, although it is very far from Murmansk, but the Norwegian Sea is the DMZ, although it is much closer than the Chukchi Sea.

                        Did you know about that? If not, then why argue?
                      4. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 17 January 2020 23: 21 New
                        0
                        naval bases are intended for replenishment, armament, repair .... the Arctic ports except Murmansk (and around it) are not designed for this and cannot technically perform such functions .. so the captain is obvious ... the Chukchi Sea is farther than Norwegian ...
                      5. timokhin-aa
                        18 January 2020 10: 18 New
                        0
                        The DMZ includes: the Baltic, White, Barents, Kara, Bering, Okhotsk, Chukchi, Black and Caspian Seas.

                        In the latest documents, the Baltic was divided, and part of the Norwegian was cut, but there I do not know the details, and this is not important.

                        And your opinion on this issue does not matter.
            2. Vladimir1155
              Vladimir1155 17 January 2020 17: 57 New
              0
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              he needs range for more effective patrol missions.

              why would a BMZ ship have such a long range as for a DMZ? do you think the designers are fools and just miscalculated? What objective parameters distinguish a BMZ ship from a DMZ ship? Displacement seaworthiness, size, power reserve ....
              1. timokhin-aa
                18 January 2020 10: 19 New
                +2
                why would a BMZ ship have such a long range as for a DMZ? do you think the designers are fools and just miscalculated?


                To leave Severomorsk to reach the Chukchi Sea for example. The entire route passes through BMZ
  • bars1
    bars1 16 January 2020 00: 08 New
    +3
    Scandals, intrigues, investigations
    1. Genry
      Genry 16 January 2020 12: 53 New
      +1
      On IN jaundice flooded.
      Soon it will be how there Galkin and Kirkorov will be prima donated and what is the role of Putin in this?
  • Izzy Gubinstein
    Izzy Gubinstein 16 January 2020 15: 24 New
    -4
    In 1941, Kemmel had 3 tsarist battleships and 7 cruisers.
    right now there are 3 kgisega and 0 battleships
    1. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 16 January 2020 19: 12 New
      0
      right now there are two cruisers in service and a couple of battleships under repair
  • Nadrub
    Nadrub 16 January 2020 16: 17 New
    +2
    Oh tyzh .... yes figs with this ship!
    But the Patriarchate and Mercury is a complete tryndets!
    It's like the church consecrated the ancient pagan idols :)))
    This is a pagan god :)
    Mercury - in ancient Roman mythology, the patron god of trade.
    Character story. The fast-footed young man Mercury patronized the difficult people - merchants and thieves. The good, but cunning god did not sleep either day or night, for which he gained respect in divine circles. And it’s just convenient to keep such an unusual assistant in stock: the tireless and impetuous Mercury served as a messenger with the supreme god :)))
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 17 January 2020 10: 02 New
      +4
      Quote: Truth
      It's like the church consecrated the ancient pagan idols :)))
      This is a pagan god :)

      Since the days of the Empire, these have long been the usual desacralized names of ships - brigs, frigates and cruisers. The frigates “Diana”, “Pallas”, “Aurora”, “sleepy goddesses” of the time of the REV and of course the brig “Mercury”.
      By the way, "Mercury" is called just in memory of the very brig, and not the pagan god.
  • Tutashkhia date
    Tutashkhia date 17 January 2020 15: 31 New
    0
    Yes Yes Yes Yes...
    1. timokhin-aa
      17 January 2020 21: 16 New
      +2
      And here the bots flooded.