Military Review

Radiation accidents: from Chernobyl to Severodvinsk. Dosimeters in the USSR and the Russian Federation

81
This article is intended to expand the series of articles “Civil weapon", Including articles 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7transforming it into something like the “Civil Security” series, in which threats to ordinary citizens will be considered in a broader context. In the future, we will consider means of communication, observation, and other technical means that increase the likelihood of population survival in various situations.




Radioactive radiation


As you know, there are several types of ionizing radiation with different effects on the body and penetrating ability:

- alpha radiation - a stream of heavy positively charged particles (nuclei of helium atoms). The range of alpha particles in a substance is hundredths of a millimeter in the body or a few centimeters in the air. A regular sheet of paper can hold these particles. However, when such substances enter the body with food, water or air, they are carried throughout the body and concentrated in the internal organs, thus causing internal irradiation of the body. The danger of getting a source of alpha particles into the body is extremely high, since they cause maximum damage to cells due to their large mass;

- beta radiation is a stream of electrons or positrons emitted during radioactive beta decay of the nuclei of certain atoms. Electrons are much smaller than alpha particles and can penetrate deep into the body by 10-15 centimeters, which can be dangerous when directly interacting with a radiation source, and it is also dangerous to get a radiation source, for example, in the form of dust, into the body. For protection against beta radiation, an organic glass screen can be used;

- neutron radiation is a neutron flux. Neutrons do not have a direct ionizing effect, however, a significant ionizing effect occurs due to elastic and inelastic scattering on the nuclei of a substance. Also, neutron-irradiated substances can acquire radioactive properties, that is, acquire induced radioactivity. Neutron radiation has the highest penetrating power;

- gamma radiation and x-ray radiation refer to electromagnetic radiation differing in wavelength. Gamma radiation with a small wavelength, which occurs during the decay of radioactive nuclei, has the highest penetrating power. To attenuate the gamma radiation flux, substances with a high density are used: lead, tungsten, uranium, concrete with metal fillers.

Radiation in the home


In the XX century, radioactive substances began to be widely used in energy, medicine and industry. The attitude to radiation at that time was rather frivolous - the potential danger of radioactive radiation was underestimated, and sometimes not taken at all, into account, it is enough to recall the appearance of clocks and Christmas decorations with radioactive illumination:

The first luminous paint based on radium salts was made in 1902, then it began to be used for a large number of applied tasks, even painted Christmas toys and children's books for the sake of radiance. Wrist watches with numbers filled with radioactive paint became the standard for the military, all watches during the First World War were with radium paint on numbers and hands. Large chronometers with a large dial and numbers could sound up to 10 000 micro-roentgen per hour (pay attention to this figure, we will return to it later).

The well-known uranium was used as part of colored glaze to cover dishes and porcelain figures. The power of the equivalent dose of household items decorated in this way can reach 15 microsievert per hour, or 1500 micro-roentgen per hour (I also suggest remembering this figure).


Radioactive household items


One can only assume how many workers and consumers died or became disabled in the manufacturing process of the above products.

However, for the most part, ordinary citizens have rarely encountered radioactivity. The incidents that occurred on ships and submarines, as well as on closed enterprises, were classified, information about them was not accessible to the general public. On the supply of military and civilian specialists there were specialized devices - dosimeters. Under the generic name "dosimeter", there is a hidden range of devices for various purposes intended for signaling and measuring radiation power (dosimeters-meters), search for radiation sources (search engines) or determine the type of emitter (spectrometers), however, for most citizens, the very concept of "dosimeter" "At that time did not exist.

The disaster at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant and the appearance of household dosimeters in the USSR


Everything changed on 26 on April 1986, when the largest technological disaster occurred - the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant (NPP). The scale of the disaster was such that it was not possible to classify them. From this moment the word "radiation" has become one of the most used in the Russian language.


The destroyed fourth power unit of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant


About three years after the accident, the National Commission on Radiation Protection developed a “Concept for a radiation monitoring system for public use”, which recommended the production of simple small-sized household dosimeters-meters for use by the public, especially in those areas that were exposed to radiation infection.

The result of this decision was the explosive expansion of dosimeter production in the Soviet Union.


The first Soviet household dosimeters IR-01 "Bella", ANRI-01 "Pine", DBG-06T, "Raton-901"



Perhaps the best dosimeter for its time, the RKS-20.03 Pripyat dosimeter


Features of the sensors used in household dosimeters of that time made it possible to determine only gamma radiation, and in some cases, hard beta radiation. This made it possible to determine the infected area, but to solve such a problem as determining the radioactivity of products, household dosimeters of that time were useless. It can be said that because of the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, the USSR, and then the CIS countries - Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, for a long time they became leaders in the production of dosimeters for various purposes.


The SBM-20 Geiger-Muller counters used in dosimeters and the compact SBM-10, SBM-21 counters allow detecting gamma radiation and partially hard beta radiation, are not sensitive to alpha radiation and soft beta radiation


Over time, the fear of radiation began to fade. Dosimeters gradually went out of use, becoming the lot of specialists who use them as part of their labor activities, and “stalkers” - lovers of visiting abandoned industrial and military facilities. A certain educational function was made by computer games of the post-acalyptic type, in which the dosimeter was often an integral part of the equipment of the game character.

Fukushima-1 accident


Interest in dosimeters returned after the accident at the Japanese Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant in March 2011 as a result of a strong earthquake and tsunami. Despite the smaller scale compared to the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, a significant territory was exposed to radioactive substances, and many radioactive substances fell into the ocean.


Fukushima-1 accident


In Japan itself, dosimeters were swept away from store shelves. Due to the specifics of this product, the number of dosimeters in stores was extremely limited, which led to their shortage. In the first six months after the accident, thousands of dosimeters were delivered to Japan by Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian manufacturers.

Due to the close proximity of Japan and the Far Eastern part of the Russian Federation, radiation panic has reached the inhabitants of our country. In stores, stocks of dosimeters were bought up; in pharmacies, stocks of alcoholic solution of iodine, absolutely useless in terms of counteracting radiation, were bought up. Of particular concern to the population was the possible entry into the Russian market of food products exposed to radioactive isotopes, and the appearance on the market of radioactive cars and spare parts for them.

By the time of the accident at the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant, dosimeters had changed. Modern dosimeters-radiometers differ significantly in their capabilities from their predecessors of the Soviet development. As manufacturers, some manufacturers began to use Geiger - Muller end mica counters, sensitive not only to gamma, but also to soft beta radiation, and some models, using special operation algorithms, even detect alpha radiation. The ability to detect alpha radiation allows you to determine the surface contamination of products with radionuclides, and the ability to determine beta radiation allows you to detect dangerous household objects, the activity of which is mostly manifested in the form of beta radiation.

Signal processing time was reduced - dosimeters began to work faster, calculate the accumulated radiation dose, and the built-in non-volatile memory allows saving measurement results for a long period of use of the dosimeter.


Modern dosimeters-radiometers: Radeks MKS-1009, Radioscan-701A, MKS-01CA1


Radiation accidents: from Chernobyl to Severodvinsk. Dosimeters in the USSR and the Russian Federation

Geiger end mica counter - Muller Beta-1-1


In principle, professional equipment is also available to the public, equipped with several types of sensors capable of detecting all types of radiation, including neutron radiation. Some of these models are equipped with scintillation crystals, which allow high-speed search for radioactive materials, but the cost of such devices usually goes beyond all reasonable boundaries, which makes them accessible to a limited circle of specialists.


Search signaling indicator-ICP-PM1703MA and gamma and X-ray dosimeter DKG-09D Chizh


It should be noted that scintillation crystals detect only gamma radiation, that is, search dosimeters that use only scintillation crystals as a detector are unable to detect alpha and beta radiation.


Scintillation crystals


As in the case of the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, over time, the hype from the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant began to subside. The demand for radiometric equipment among the population sharply declined.

Nenox incident


August 8, 2019 at the Nenoksa military training ground of the White Sea Naval Base of the North fleet in the waters of the Dvina Bay of the White Sea near the village of Sopka, an explosion occurred on the offshore platform, which killed five RFNC-VNIIEF employees, two military personnel died from injuries in a hospital and four more people received a high radiation dose and were hospitalized. In Severodvinsk, 30 km from this place, a short-term increase in the background radiation to 2 microsievert per hour (200 microroentgen per hour) was recorded at the usual level of 0,11 microsievert per hour (11 microroentgen per hour).

There is no reliable information about the incident. According to one information, radiation contamination arose due to damage to a radioisotope source during the explosion of a rocket engine, according to another, due to the explosion of a test sample of a Burevestnik cruise missile with a nuclear rocket engine.

The organization of a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty has published a map of the possible spread of radionuclides after the explosion, but the reliability of the information displayed on it is unknown.


Map of the possible expansion of radionuclides after the explosion in Nenoks


The reaction of the population to news about a possible radioactive infection is similar to that after the accident at the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant - the purchase of dosimeters and an alcoholic solution of iodine ...

Of course, the radiation incident in Nyonoks is not comparable with such major radiation disasters as the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant or the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant. Rather, it can serve as an indicator of the unpredictability of the occurrence of radiation-hazardous situations in Russia and in the world.

Dosimeters as a means of survival


How necessary is a household dosimeter in everyday life? Here you can express yourself unambiguously - most of the time it will lie on a shelf, this is not an item that in everyday life will be in demand daily. On the other hand, in the event of a radiation accident or accident, it will be practically impossible to purchase a dosimeter, since their number in stores is limited. As the experience of the accident at the Fukushima-1 NPP showed, the market will be saturated about six months after the accident. In the event of a serious incident with the release of radioactive materials, this is unacceptably a lot.

Another potential source of threat is household items containing radioactive materials. Contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of them. The overall decline in education in the country leads to the fact that some irresponsible citizens are treated with Chinese “scalar radiation” medallions containing thorium-232 and giving radiation radiation up to 10 microsievert per hour (1000 micro-roentgen) - constantly wear these close to the body deadly. It is possible that some alternatively gifted are forced to wear such “healing” medallions of their children.

Also in everyday life you can meet watches and other dial gauges with continuous radioactive light mass, glassware from uranium, some types of welding electrodes with thorium with a composition, glowing grids of old tourist lamps made of a mixture of thorium and cesium, old lenses with optics, with an antireflective composition based on thorium.

Industrial sources may include gamma sources used as level meters in quarries and gamma flaw detectors, smoke detectors on the americium-241 isotope (plutonium-1 was used in the old Soviet RID-239), which emit enough control sources for army dosimeters .

The cheapest household dosimeters cost about 5 000 - 10 000 rubles. In their capabilities, they roughly correspond to Soviet and post-Soviet household dosimeters used by the population after the Chernobyl accident, and capable of detecting only gamma radiation. Slightly more expensive and high-quality models, costing about 10 000 - 25 000 rubles like Radeks MKS-1009, Radioscan-701A, MKS-01CA1, made on the basis of Geiger-Muller end mica counters, allow determining alpha and beta radiation it is extremely important in some situations, primarily to determine the surface contamination of products or the detection of radioactive household items.

The cost of professional models, including those with scintillation crystals, immediately goes for 50 000 - 100 000 rubles, only specialists working with radioactive materials on duty owe them (however, after buying the first dosimeter there is a chance to become a radiophile or radiophobe, and then the cost of professional models will no longer seem so sky-high).

At the other end of the scale there are primitive crafts - various trinkets, Chinese set-top boxes for the smartphone via the 3,5 mm connector, radiation detection programs from the smartphone’s camera and the like. Their use is not only useless, but also dangerous, because they give a false sense of confidence, and they will most likely show the presence of radiation only when the plastic of the case begins to melt.

You can also quote advice from one excellent Articles at the choice of dosimeters:
Do not take the instrument with a small upper measuring limit. For example, devices with a limit of 1000 mcr / h very often when “meeting” powerful sources are reset or show low values, which can be extremely dangerous. Focus on the upper limit (exposure dose rate) of at least 10000 mcr / h (10 mr / h or 100 mcv / h), and preferably 100000 mcr / h (100 mr / h or 1 mSv / h).


The conclusion in this situation can be drawn as follows. The presence of a dosimeter in the arsenal of an average citizen, although not necessary, is highly desirable. The problem is that the radiation threat is not detected by other means than the dosimeter - it cannot be heard, felt, tasted. Even if the whole world abandons nuclear power plants, which is extremely unlikely, there will remain medical and industrial sources of radiation that cannot be avoided in the foreseeable future, which means there will always be a risk of radioactive contamination. There will also be various household and industrial items containing radioactive substances. This is especially true for those who like to carry various trinkets home from dumps, markets or antique shops.

Do not forget that the authorities in some situations tend to play down or hush up the consequences of man-made incidents. For example, in one of the instructions on the leakage of chemically hazardous substances, a phrase like: “In some cases, to prevent panic, notifying the population about the leak of toxic substances is considered inappropriate.”

Examples of real measurements


As an example, we measured the background radiation in one of the industrial zones of the Tula region, and also checked some potentially interesting household items. The measurements were carried out by a 701A model dosimeter provided by Radiaskan (my old Bella dosimeter ordered a long life, possibly the Geiger-Muller counter SBM-20 lost its tightness).



In general, the radiation background in the region, in the city and in residential premises is about 9-11 micro-roentgen per hour, in some cases the background is deviated to 7-15 micro-roentgen per hour. In search of foci of radiation, measurements were made in the industrial zone, where various garbage of technogenic origin was buried for a long period. The measurement results did not reveal any sources of radiation, the background is close to natural.



Similar results were obtained at nearby measurement points (a total of about 50 measurements were made). Only one collapsed brick wall, most likely from the old garage, showed a slight excess - approximately 1,5-2 times the value of the natural background.



Of household items, luminous tritium key rings were first tested. The radiation from the larger key fob was of the order of 46 microroentgen per hour, which is four times higher than the background value. A small keychain gave approximately 22 micro-x-rays per hour. When carried in a bag, these key rings are completely safe, but on the body I would not recommend wearing them, as well as giving them to children who can try to disassemble them.



Something similar could be expected from tritium charms, another harmless porcelain figurine provided to me by a friend. The results of measurements of a porcelain cat showed radiation above 1000 microroentgen per hour, which is already quite significant. Most likely the radiation comes from enamel containing uranium, which was mentioned at the beginning of the article. The maximum radiation is fixed on the "back" of the figure, where the thickness of the enamel is maximum. It is hardly worth putting this "kitty" on the bedside table.



I was most impressed, also provided by a friend, aviation tachometer with numbers and arrows coated with radium paint. The maximum recorded radiation was almost 9000 micro-roentgen per hour! The radiation level confirms the data indicated at the beginning of the article. Both radioactive objects are of particular danger in case of shedding of a radioactive substance and its ingress into the body, for example, in the event of a fall and destruction.



Both radioactive objects - a porcelain cat and a tachometer, being wrapped in plastic bags, several layers of food foil, and put into another plastic bag, gave radiation in excess of 280 microroentgen per hour. Fortunately, radiation is already reduced to a safe 23 microroentgen per hour in half a meter.



Dangerous incidents with radioactive materials


In conclusion, I would like to recall several incidents with radioactive sources, one of which occurred in the USSR, and the other in sunny Brazil.

the USSR
In the 1981 year in one of the apartments of the house number 7 on the street. The Guardsmen-Kantemirovtsev died an eighteen-year-old girl, who had recently been distinguished for her exemplary health. A year later, her sixteen-year-old brother died in the hospital, and a little later, their mother. The empty apartment was handed over to a new family, but after a while their teenage son also mysteriously fell ill with an incurable ailment and went into another world. The cause of death of all these people was leukemia, in a popular way - blood cancer. The doctors attributed the illnesses in the second family to bad heredity, without associating them with a similar diagnosis from the previous owners of the apartment.

Shortly before the death of a teenager, a carpet was hung on the wall in his room. When the young man had already passed away, his parents suddenly noticed that a burnt spot had formed on the carpet. The father of the deceased guy obtained a thorough investigation. When the experts who visited the apartment turned on the Geiger counter, they ran out in shock and ordered the house to be evacuated - the radiation in the house exceeded the maximum permissible level hundreds of times!

Arriving experts in protective suits found a capsule embedded in the wall with the strongest radioactive substance Cesium-137. The ampoule had dimensions of only four by eight millimeters, however, it emitted two hundred x-rays per hour, irradiating not only these apartments, but also three adjacent apartments. Specialists removed a piece of the wall with a radioactive ampoule and the gamma radiation in the 7 house immediately disappeared, and finally it became safe to live in it.

The investigation showed that in the Karan granite quarry, a similar radioactive capsule was lost in the late seventies. Probably, she accidentally fell into stones, from which they built a house. According to the charter, the quarry workers had to search at least the entire mine, but find a dangerous part, however, apparently, no one did it.

In the period from 1981 to 1989, six residents died from radiation in this house, four of whom were minors. Seventeen more people received disabilities.

Brazil
On 13 of September 1987 of the year in the hot Brazilian city of Goyenia, two men named Roberto Alves and Wagner Pereira, taking advantage of the lack of protection, crawled into an abandoned hospital building. Having dismantled the medical installation for scrap, they loaded its parts into a wheelbarrow and drove it home to Alves. That evening, they began to disassemble the movable head of the device, from where they extracted a capsule with cesium-137 chloride.

Not paying attention to nausea and a general deterioration in well-being, friends went about their business. Wagner Pereira nevertheless went to the hospital that day, where he was diagnosed with food poisoning, and Roberto Alves the next day continued to disassemble the capsule. Despite the strange burns he received, on September 16 he successfully poked a hole in the capsule window and took out a strange glowing powder on the tip of a screwdriver. Trying to set fire to it, he subsequently lost interest in the capsule and sold it to a dump in a man named Dever Ferreira.

On the night of September 18, Ferreira saw a mysterious blue light emanating from the capsule, and then dragged it to his home. There he showed a luminous capsule to his relatives and friends. One of the friends of 21 on September broke the window of the capsule, pulling out several granules of the substance.

24 of September, Ferreira’s brother - Ivo carried the luminous powder to his home, scattering it on the concrete floor. His six-year-old daughter was crawling on this floor, enthusiastically smearing herself with an unusual luminous substance. In parallel, Ferreira’s wife, Gabriela, became seriously ill, and on 25 on September Ivo resold the capsule to a nearby scrap metal collection point.

However, Ferreiro Gabriela, having already received a lethal dose of radiation, compared her illness, similar ailments from her acquaintances, and a strange thing brought by her husband. On 28 of September, she found the strength to go to the second landfill, pull out the ill-fated capsule and go to the hospital with her. At the hospital, they were horrified to quickly recognize the purpose of the strange part, but fortunately, the woman packed the radiation source and the infection in the hospital was minimal. Gabriela died on October 23 on the same day as Ferreira's little niece. In addition to them, two more landfill workers died, disassembled the capsule to the end.

Only due to a combination of circumstances the consequences of this incident turned out to be local, potentially they could affect a huge number of people in a densely populated city. In total, 249 people, 42 buildings, 14 machines, 3 bush, 5 pigs were infected. The authorities removed the topsoil from the places of infection and cleaned the area with ion-exchange reagents. Ivo's little daughter had to be buried in an airtight coffin under the protests of local residents who did not want to bury her radioactive body in the cemetery.
Author:
Photos used:
habr.com, mydozimetr.ru, rb.mchs.gov.ru, german242.com, radiascan.ru, tehnika.expert, sohabr.net, forum.rhbz.org, kramatorskpost.com
Articles from this series:
Civilian short arms in Russia. Part of 1
Civilian short arms in Russia. Part of 2
Civilian short arms in Russia. Part of 3
Civilian long-barreled weapons in Russia. Part of 4
Civilian long-barreled rifle in Russia. Part of 5l
Civil weapons in Russia. Part of 6. Pneumatics: toy or weapon?
Civil weapons in Russia. Stun guns
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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 3 October 2019 18: 30
    +6
    Thanks for the article, very interesting and informative. Seriously thinking about buying a dosimeter ..
    1. your1970
      your1970 3 October 2019 19: 04
      +2
      1) if you have not dismantled the Yantar system at the railway checkpoint and the checkpoint / DAPP, it is impossible to import such strong objects into the Russian Federation. "Yantar" will snatch out this easily, the customs will issue a criminal case. Judging by the fact that it is constantly in the news, that the customs have delayed the clock -system works
      2) Any rock extracted from the bowels of the phonite. Granites and all kinds of clay products are especially fond ...
      sometimes toilet litter strongly - a fairly large array of faience
      1. Shopping Mall
        3 October 2019 19: 28
        +1
        Quote: your1970
        1) if you have not dismantled the Yantar system at the railway checkpoint and the checkpoint / DAPP, it is impossible to import such strong objects into the Russian Federation. "Yantar" will snatch out this easily, the customs will issue a criminal case. Judging by the fact that it is constantly in the news, that the customs have delayed the clock -system works
        2) Any rock extracted from the bowels of the phonite. Granites and all kinds of clay products are especially fond ...
        sometimes toilet litter strongly - a fairly large array of faience


        The problem is that many objects give the main background in alpha and beta radiation, which is greatly attenuated with distance. Look at the cat and the device from the article - there is 3-4 alpha and beta, there is already no background in half a meter.

        But if you put such a "kitty" next to the bed, for example, on the bedside table, then there can be problems. And even an order of magnitude worse, if such things crack or crumble, then the source can get into the body with dust and hello lung / stomach / intestinal cancer, or where the particles are carried by the bloodstream.

        Example from one forum about alpha and beta:
        he carried out all operations with sensors with a dosimeter, but the trouble is that the isotopes in these sources are "fried" with soft gamma radiation and a huge flux of alpha particles, which no household dosimeter can detect.
        Didn't find Sergey's "Terra" either ...

        He poked at Reed-1 for a long, long time, sensing himself badly called Senya, he measured!

        The message of Sergey's friend on the VKontakte website:
        Hands received the greatest exposure.
        From each source, 24 million in alpha and almost 4 X-rays in gamma.
        But there were many sources, and they were near for many hours.
        The Terra dosimeter is not sensitive to the soft gamut from America, so Terra showed low levels.
        Here's how a device on the SBM-20 can go sideways when working with sources ...


        https://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=15:42181-16
        1. your1970
          your1970 3 October 2019 19: 29
          0
          caught and not ..... wearable search devices are ... even weak backgrounds are taken ..
          1. Shopping Mall
            3 October 2019 19: 33
            0
            Quote: your1970
            caught and not ..... wearable search devices are ...


            They are caught, but not always. Professional devices are bought at customs for hundreds of oil (sometimes such devices appear on the secondary market at attractive prices wink ).

            But the country is full of all rubbish, even without foreign gifts.

            But what goes from abroad:

            https://ru.aliexpress.com/i/32920253494.html?spm=a2g0v.12057483.0.0.58e56396JiNgG9

            or

            https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/32617847536.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1cc65f00IRw31O&algo_pvid=f4006ab7-43cc-4260-b09b-8f8004f8232b&algo_expid=f4006ab7-43cc-4260-b09b-8f8004f8232b-1&btsid=355069fa-52dc-4861-bb03-8c9185ca7a62&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_55

            Delayed only if the party is going ...
            1. your1970
              your1970 3 October 2019 20: 00
              +1
              Quote: AVM
              They are caught, but not always.
              -On our border we always caught - it's a beautiful, simple and easy-to-prove criminal (if only there was a face)
              "Criminal Code of the Russian Federation Article 226.1. Smuggling of potent, poisonous, poisonous, explosive, radioactive substances, radiation sources, nuclear materials, firearms or their main parts, explosive devices, ammunition, weapons of mass destruction, their means of delivery, other weapons, other military equipment , as well as materials and equipment that can be used to create weapons of mass destruction, their delivery vehicles, other weapons, other military equipment, as well as strategically important goods and resources or cultural values ​​or especially valuable wild animals and aquatic biological resources "

              Moreover, under this article the consignment not needed - quite enough single the source

              From my own experience - wildly fonil sources (damaged) of railway flaw detectors
      2. eagle owl
        eagle owl 3 October 2019 19: 49
        +1
        It’s much more figurative that radon, for example, is normal and everywhere, and in addition it likes to accumulate in building materials, most often in basements ... So the closer the house is to the ground and the older, the easier it is to glue fins, and radon is the most common after smoking cause of oncology wink And to him, to a button, he was close to Chernobyl, he was not there, he will be in the basement
        1. also clean
          also clean 3 October 2019 23: 17
          0
          Quote: Uhu
          And to him, to a button, he was close to Chernobyl, he was not there, he will be in the basement

          Or will not))). The half-life of radon is 3,823 days. Much more dangerous DPR (daughter products) of radon. For example, Polonium-218 or a radioactive isotope of lead-210
      3. balunn
        balunn 4 October 2019 10: 43
        0
        go to the dumps of coal-fired power plants
      4. phair
        phair 19 November 2019 00: 57
        0
        In the seaport of Vladivostok, they stand. Sometimes they caught radioactive metal.
  2. bar
    bar 3 October 2019 18: 47
    0
    What is the relationship between a photo lens and radiation? The film itself does not tolerate radiation.
    1. Alex20042004
      Alex20042004 3 October 2019 19: 06
      +3
      Some brands of lenses from companies such as Kodak, Canon, GAF, Takumar, Yasinon, Flektogon, Minolta, ROKKOR, ZUIKO contain lenses from the so-called lanthanum glass, that is, optical glass with rare earth additives. A feature of this glass is that one important, but unfortunately, radioactive component is thorium dioxide-232. Lenses with lenses from such glass have very high optical characteristics, but on the other hand they present a certain radiation hazard to the owner of such a lens. A photographer with a similar technique receives more than 12 microroentgen of the accumulated dose for a 3600 hour working day instead of the 120 microroentgen that would have been received without a lens. Many professional photographers are aware of such a feature of lanthanum optics and are ready to put up with radioactive radiation for the sake of a good picture, sometimes they even acquire such lenses on purpose.


      https://penstart.livejournal.com/6253.html
      1. bar
        bar 3 October 2019 19: 14
        +1
        Quote: Alex20042004
        Lenses with lenses from such glass have very high optical characteristics, but on the other hand they present a certain radiation hazard to the owner of such a lens. A photographer with similar equipment for a 12-hour working day receives more than 3600 micro-roentgen of the accumulated dose instead of 120 micro-roentgen, which would have been received without a lens.

        And then what happens to the film?
        1. igordok
          igordok 3 October 2019 19: 59
          +1
          Quote: bar
          And then what happens to the film?

          Gamma and beta radiation due to the high thorium content of the lens in the cameras have the possibility of degradation of the film, if the latter was left in the camera for a significant period of time.

          It was much more dangerous if the eyepiece was made of lanthanum glass. From the lens, the dose, I think, is no more than from the granite pedestal of some monument.
      2. old_pferd
        old_pferd 3 October 2019 21: 26
        +1
        I still have Industar 61 L / Z and somehow the SRP-68-01 radiometer reacted poorly to it.
        1. Shopping Mall
          4 October 2019 08: 04
          +1
          Quote: old_pferd
          I still have Industar 61 L / Z and somehow the SRP-68-01 radiometer reacted poorly to it.


          It is possible that there is no thorium enlightenment on it. Look, the lenses should be a yellowish tint.
          1. old_pferd
            old_pferd 4 October 2019 08: 52
            0
            No, of course, not yellow, the lens of the early 80's. I mean, not all lanthanum glass contains thorium, as you might think from the commentary, thorium oxide was added intentionally, regardless of lanthanum.
  3. Alex20042004
    Alex20042004 3 October 2019 19: 01
    +5
    Very good good article !
  4. stalki
    stalki 3 October 2019 19: 12
    +5
    A useful article on the main positions of the question is brief and to the point. Thanks to the author for trying.
  5. faterdom
    faterdom 3 October 2019 19: 38
    +1
    Interesting article. Only there are no DP-5 friends and individual DP-22 meters.
    Pleased with the "Map of probable infection after the explosion in Nyonoksa". Areas much larger than those infected by Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Alomogordo, Bikini, Chernobyl and Fukishima are shown.
    And, curiously, the apotheosis of some kind of psychosis around this event came two or three weeks after the tragedy itself, and at the same time in the Western press and our "Fontanka-Rain". Just on the eve of Trump's announcement.
    Relatives call us from abroad to make sure that we are alive. Although there is no panic, and at the local level, there are no rumors at the local level. Only familiar fishermen are wary of fishing at the mouth of the Sev. Dvina, it’s essentially a river-sea mixture there.
  6. igordok
    igordok 3 October 2019 19: 45
    +2
    My first dosimeter.

    In those days, they tried to make homemade dosimeters, but since purchased ones had already appeared, it did not come to homemade ones. When he was at home, in the south-west of the Bryansk region, he took him with him. When we went to the forest to pick mushrooms, I made interesting measurements of the background level. In general, the background is not significantly overestimated, but there were places where the background was significantly higher. Such "spots" were not large - a meter, half a meter in diameter. Unfortunately, I don't remember the numbers of the dosimeter.
    1. bar
      bar 3 October 2019 20: 02
      +1
      Was the same too. Bella is still alive.
      1. igordok
        igordok 3 October 2019 20: 07
        +1
        One of my needs a little repair. The second is intact, and recently needed. My sister took advantage, checked the background in her apartment.
  7. Doliva63
    Doliva63 3 October 2019 20: 04
    +7
    In stagnant times, he worked at the cyclotron. Obligations - scintillator on the collar of the robe, if desired - an army dosimeter in the breast pocket. Sometimes we checked the testimony, coincided. laughing Now my wife has a dosimeter that shows how the phonite is, for example, the GDR Madonna - and I drank coffee from it for so many years, horror! I'm not even talking about the luminous "attachments" for night shooting from "phosphorus"! But nothing while alive drinks
    1. your1970
      your1970 4 October 2019 08: 01
      +2
      Quote: Doliva63
      In stagnant times, he worked at the cyclotron. Binding - scintillator on the collar of the robe, if desired

      Dubna? Hello in this case to a colleague!
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 4 October 2019 18: 46
        0
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: Doliva63
        In stagnant times, he worked at the cyclotron. Binding - scintillator on the collar of the robe, if desired

        Dubna? Hello in this case to a colleague!

        Not Dubna, but apparently colleagues anyway laughing drinks
    2. ser56
      ser56 4 October 2019 14: 18
      +1
      Quote: Doliva63
      scintillator on the collar of the robe,

      Well, you were poorly taught in Belarus ... most likely it was a thermoluminescent dosimeter ... bully
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 4 October 2019 18: 57
        0
        Quote: ser56
        Quote: Doliva63
        scintillator on the collar of the robe,

        Well, you were poorly taught in Belarus ... most likely it was a thermoluminescent dosimeter ... bully

        Scintillation detector - will it work? Gray plastic box with a red window. Each has its own. After work you give in, in the morning you receive, you look at the dose for yesterday, put your signature.
  8. estixnumx
    estixnumx 3 October 2019 20: 47
    0
    I have 100% lying around DP-5, DP-22 + I still don’t remember any American model for about 8 years I didn’t get it, it's a pity to throw it away - but they take up space.
  9. garri-lin
    garri-lin 3 October 2019 21: 08
    +2
    In his youth, he cleaned a lot of luminous paint from the dials of army instruments. As I read it was already scary. Thank you for the article. Informative for the average person.
  10. Tarasios
    Tarasios 3 October 2019 21: 13
    +1
    terrible invisible death ...
  11. Old26
    Old26 3 October 2019 22: 06
    +4
    The conclusion in this situation can be drawn as follows. The presence of a dosimeter in the arsenal of an average citizen, although not necessary, is highly desirable

    A good dosimeter and costs from 12 to 25 thousand. Buying a thing that is possible never in my life and will not be used for such an amount is possible if you have the salary of a deputy.
    Rather, a bag with NAZ is also useful in the arsenal of an average citizen, plus additional purchases, such as a tourist gas stove, etc. The chances that these purchases come in handy are significantly greater
    1. Shopping Mall
      4 October 2019 08: 17
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      The conclusion in this situation can be drawn as follows. The presence of a dosimeter in the arsenal of an average citizen, although not necessary, is highly desirable

      A good dosimeter and costs from 12 to 25 thousand. Buying a thing that is possible never in my life and will not be used for such an amount is possible if you have the salary of a deputy.
      Rather, a bag with NAZ is also useful in the arsenal of an average citizen, plus additional purchases, such as a tourist gas stove, etc. The chances that these purchases come in handy are significantly greater


      A bag with NAZ is certainly good, but because the 15-25 thousand is some kind of prohibitive price, PMSM is wrong. Look at the sales of cell phones, televisions and other consumer goods. How many iPhones are sold, some change every year or every two years. I think that for the majority this is quite a lifting amount. If not, then you can take a dosimeter on SBM-20 and take 5000.

      And if it comes in handy, it won't come in handy, it's like with a pistol - "In order for a weapon to save a life one day, you need to carry it with you all your life, while you may never need it in your entire life."
      No one knows how the situation in the country and in the world will turn around; in the worst case scenario, it would not be necessary to go through a Fallout in real life. Moreover, it is not known that they will bring us from China, and someone else has a specific enterprise on hand.

      See the post below, there is still no exact data about the accident near Severodvinsk. I really do not want to make decisions in such a situation relying on unverified information.
      1. balunn
        balunn 4 October 2019 11: 05
        -1
        So what? Well, you will see that the background is raised. What's next? Run to the lead bunker? And the customs officers are obliged to check that they are being transported from behind a hillock. This is their direct responsibility.
        1. Shopping Mall
          4 October 2019 11: 22
          +1
          Quote: balunn
          And the customs officers are obliged to check that they are being transported from behind a hillock. This is their direct responsibility.


          It's like talking about protection from criminals - "the police are obliged to protect me, I pay taxes." Protect - circle with chalk. And if they still missed, die of cancer on principle?

          Quote: balunn
          So what? Well, you will see that the background is raised. What's next? Run to the lead bunker?


          And about what to do, it is variable. At a minimum, put on a respirator, close windows, plug in gaps, thoroughly wash dishes and products, since the most dangerous thing is dust from the radiation source inside. As a maximum, evacuate without waiting until it is forcibly done (give, for example, 15 minutes to fees), or vice versa, close the territory.
          1. ser56
            ser56 4 October 2019 14: 19
            -1
            Quote: AVM
            At least wear a respirator, close windows

            what nonsense that ... bully
            1. Shopping Mall
              4 October 2019 15: 19
              0
              Quote: ser56
              Quote: AVM
              At least wear a respirator, close windows

              what nonsense that ... bully


              Oh really? How about justifying?
              1. ser56
                ser56 4 October 2019 15: 45
                +1
                Quote: AVM
                Oh really? How about justifying?

                and if the background has increased from the release of radon in your home? For example, did the ventilation fail or did ground movement occur? bully Or did you hit the tail of the coal station due to a change in wind? bully Yes, there are various reasons ...
  12. Astronaut
    Astronaut 3 October 2019 22: 56
    +1
    It’s a pity that now in school they don’t teach civil defense (for fun we called it a coffin)
    True, in the years of our youth there were no such beautiful dosimeters smile
  13. Tests
    Tests 3 October 2019 22: 56
    -1
    Dear author, in Severodvinsk there were several accidents related to radiation. Both the boats flew into the water and into the air, and the springs were destroyed, and on the "Zvezdochka" several years ago, due to loosely connected flanges, liquid radioactive waste was spilled onto the pier on the Southern Jagra. Not as scary as at Krasny Sormovo, in Andreeva Bay, or in Chazhma, or at Mayak, but ... There are several spots of radiation around Severodvinsk, where phonite and phonite are strong ...
    And yet, dear author, you write: "There is no reliable information about the incident." And after 3 paragraphs and a map, for some reason, you conclude: "Of course, the radiation incident in Nyonoksa cannot be compared with such major radiation disasters as the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant or the Fukushima-1 nuclear power plant." It is quite comparable, only, probably, less in ?? ? times, because there is no reliable information about the incident ... The pontoons at the mouth of the Verkhovka River, after the explosion, were lying around without security for several tens of days, until the journalists of the BelomorKanal news agency and the local ethnographer Alexei Klimov raised this problem. There is a September filming, like an excavator rakes the broken equipment from the pontoons into a container, then the container lifts the Mi-26 and takes it away to no one knows where ... What the White Sea took into itself is a great mystery. If in 10 years tourists near Solovki will observe black beluga whales with horns, like narwhals, it is not surprising ...
    1. Wolverine Wolverine
      Wolverine Wolverine 4 October 2019 12: 47
      0
      In vain, you Eugene write this! The country has total propaganda as in the USSR, where until recently they did not report the Chernobyl accident so far! People with brain patriotism will not understand and will worm.
      1. ser56
        ser56 4 October 2019 14: 20
        -2
        Quote: Wolverine Wolverine
        did not report the Chernobyl accident

        and right - to avoid panic ...
      2. Shopping Mall
        4 October 2019 15: 20
        +1
        Quote: Wolverine Wolverine
        In vain, you Eugene write this! The country has total propaganda as in the USSR, where until recently they did not report the Chernobyl accident so far! People with brain patriotism will not understand and will worm.


        At least technical means are now available for the timely detection of such situations.
  14. Old26
    Old26 3 October 2019 23: 04
    +3
    Quote: Astronaut
    It’s a pity that now in school they don’t teach civil defense (for fun we called it a coffin)
    True, in the years of our youth there were no such beautiful dosimeters smile

    Well, they showed us the army at school. Then we really did not have GO, there was a CWP. And my daughter did not have a GO, but there was "pornography" called OBZH.

    Several years ago, when another training was conducted through the Ministry of Emergencies (once every three years), they again showed mainly army equipment. There were a couple of civilians. True price is ....
    Maybe where the dosimeter is a need, but here, in the south, it is not so relevant ...
  15. also clean
    also clean 3 October 2019 23: 26
    0
    But what about "my friend" RKSB-104? Forgot? Oh, damn it ...
  16. regulus
    regulus 4 October 2019 00: 36
    +2
    Go to Habr and read the article "Dosimeter for Seryozha".
    1. Shopping Mall
      4 October 2019 08: 55
      +1
      Quote: regulus
      Go to Habr and read the article "Dosimeter for Seryozha".


      The article is interesting, but it mainly refers to the products of Polimaster, and it is rare and expensive. As for watch dosimeters, this thing, in my opinion, is almost useless. In the standard version, they have very low characteristics, and if you upgrade to a scintillator, it is not clear how everything will be calibrated there, and how adequate the readings will be - I do not trust homemade products. The cost of hours is extremely high. If here they say that 15000-20000 is an unbearable price, then what about the clock for 30000 + Yes, and few people want to constantly drag the puck on their hands. PMSM conventional dosimeter is much more practical.
      1. regulus
        regulus 4 October 2019 16: 20
        +1
        As I understand it, the author is planning a series of articles.
  17. MichaelS
    MichaelS 4 October 2019 01: 34
    +4
    The article is suitable, read like a detective. I will bring my 5 cop. Potassium chloride and potassium nitrate, used by farmers, also fonite. On bags with these fertilizers I do not recommend equipping a berth.
    In general, all that contains potassium is phonite, thanks to the radioactive isotope potassium-40. Even bananas and nuts. Tremble vegans!
    1. Shopping Mall
      4 October 2019 08: 56
      +2
      Quote: MichaelS
      The article is suitable, read like a detective. I will bring my 5 cop. Potassium chloride and potassium nitrate, used by farmers, also fonite. On bags with these fertilizers I do not recommend equipping a berth.
      In general, all that contains potassium is phonite, thanks to the radioactive isotope potassium-40. Even bananas and nuts. Tremble vegans!


      Yes, I'm going to buy a little as a control source.
  18. Alex_59
    Alex_59 4 October 2019 08: 03
    +1
    The list of dangerous incidents can be easily and voluminously replenished by googling about RTGs. That's where everyone frolics. And the military lost them, broke them. And not too clever color hunters hunted. I think that the total infection from incidents with them will be several times higher than the two cases described in the article. Another question is that RTGs are filthy little by little and in different places at different times.
  19. BAI
    BAI 4 October 2019 09: 35
    0
    1.
    - gamma radiation and x-ray radiation refer to electromagnetic radiation differing in wavelength.

    Did the author hear anything about the corpuscular theory of light and gamma radiation? In certain circumstances, these radiations manifest themselves as waves, and in others, as flows of particles. I myself saw photo- hard gamma radiation does not cause weak mechanical damage to products made of thin metal.
    2.
    How necessary is a household dosimeter in everyday life? Here we can express ourselves unambiguously - most of the time it will lie on a shelf, this is not an item that in everyday life will be in demand on a daily basis.

    It depends on where. In areas affected by Chernobyl, it is needed constantly. In Tula 50: a clean place, literally 2 steps to the side - an essential background. After all, the pollution did not fall out in an even layer, but in spots (at least at a significant distance from the reactor).

    Of course, it’s best to use something like SRPS-4 (but 20 years ago, now I don’t even know which model it is, although Pine and Bella, as I see it, live. My Pine already has an LCD screen crumbled). But him (SRPS) even the documentation - chipboard.
  20. ser56
    ser56 4 October 2019 14: 15
    0
    The article is of little use, the author has many technical errors, and it provokes radiophobia ... request
    1) "gamma radiation and X-ray radiation are electromagnetic radiation of different wavelength." They differ in the nature of their occurrence - the first in the fission of nuclei, the second in the deceleration of charged particles ...
    2) "Also, substances irradiated by neutrons can acquire radioactive properties, that is, acquire induced radioactivity. Neutron radiation has the greatest penetrating ability;"
    a) quanta can also create induced activity - it depends on energy ...
    b) penetration depends on the energy and material of protection, unequivocal conclusions are not appropriate ... request
    3) "15 microsievert per hour, or 1500 micro roentgens per hour"
    illiterate compare Sievert and X-rays request The former are units of the equivalent dose, the latter are the exposure ones ... request
    4) "One can only guess how many workers and consumers have died or become disabled in the process of manufacturing the above products." horror stories from radiophobia - natural uranium is practically harmless ...
    5) "Under the generalized name" dosimeter ", a number of devices for various purposes are hidden, intended for signaling and measuring radiation power (dosimeters-meters), searching for radiation sources (search engines) or determining the type of emitter (spectrometers), however, for most citizens, the concept of "dosimeter" did not exist at that time. " the author confuses different devices: radiometers, dosimeters and spectrometers ... the first measure the dose rate. the second dose, and the third radiation spectrum ... touched by the "dosimeters-meters" - all these instruments are measuring ... bully
    6) "It should be noted that scintillation crystals only detect gamma radiation, that is, search dosimeters using only scintillation crystals as a detector are unable to detect alpha and beta radiation."
    highly controversial statement bully scintillation detection units contain not only a scintillator, but also a photographic recorder (photoelectron multiplier or photodiode)! It all depends on how the window is arranged - if the layer of the protective casing is thin, then the electrons will completely pass and perfectly register ... in any case, you can measure the bremsstrahlung from electrons .... request
    7) "Both radioactive objects - a porcelain cat and a tachometer, being wrapped in plastic bags, several layers of food foil, and put in another plastic bag," hmm, use materials for protection that cannot provide it? bully it would be better if they put it in a saucepan made of stainless steel, and even better in a cast-iron duckling ...
    further laziness ... there is a good principle - you do not know the subject professionally, do not write ... bully
    1. Shopping Mall
      4 October 2019 15: 12
      +1
      Quote: ser56
      The article is of little use, the author has many technical errors, and it provokes radiophobia ... request
      1) "gamma radiation and X-ray radiation are electromagnetic radiation of different wavelength." They differ in the nature of their occurrence - the first in the fission of nuclei, the second in the deceleration of charged particles ...


      Both that and another are true, there is no error.

      Quote: ser56
      2) "Also, substances irradiated by neutrons can acquire radioactive properties, that is, acquire induced radioactivity. Neutron radiation has the greatest penetrating ability;"
      a) quanta can also create induced activity - it depends on energy ...


      They can, but it will be larger from neutrons, since it is a massive particle. At least when I read about induced radiation at nuclear power plants, it was primarily about neutron exposure.

      Quote: ser56
      b) penetration depends on the energy and material of protection, unequivocal conclusions are not appropriate ... request


      Alpha and beta will always have lower penetration than gamma and neutrons.
      State website: http://rb.mchs.gov.ru/about_radiation/Radiacija_i_zdorove_cheloveka/O_radiacii_dostupnim_jazikom/item/5248
      Neutron radiation has the highest penetrating power.


      Quote: ser56
      3) "15 microsievert per hour, or 1500 micro roentgens per hour"
      illiterate compare Sievert and X-rays request The former are units of the equivalent dose, the latter are the exposure ones ... request


      It reminds me of the topic with Pluto - then a planet, then an asteroid, then a microplanet, but the essence is one. In dosimeters, sievert and X-rays are switched in the settings with the coefficient 100. In old dosimeters, the data is displayed in X-rays, in some new ones, only in sievert. Values ​​are indicated in pairs to make it easier to navigate.

      Quote: ser56
      4) "One can only guess how many workers and consumers have died or become disabled in the process of manufacturing the above products." horror stories from radiophobia - natural uranium is practically harmless ...


      There, not only uranium was used, but also radium often.
      Радиевые девушки - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B8

      Yes, and "practically harmless" does not mean harmless. In those days, they might not have known that a person received cancer of the stomach or lungs from him. He died - they buried.

      Quote: ser56
      5) "Under the generalized name" dosimeter ", a number of devices for various purposes are hidden, intended for signaling and measuring radiation power (dosimeters-meters), searching for radiation sources (search engines) or determining the type of emitter (spectrometers), however, for most citizens, the concept of "dosimeter" did not exist at that time. " the author confuses different devices: radiometers, dosimeters and spectrometers ... the first measure the dose rate. the second dose, and the third radiation spectrum ... touched by the "dosimeters-meters" - all these instruments are measuring ... bully


      In my opinion, you wrote the same thing as I did, only in other words.

      Quote: ser56
      6) "It should be noted that scintillation crystals only detect gamma radiation, that is, search dosimeters using only scintillation crystals as a detector are unable to detect alpha and beta radiation."
      highly controversial statement bully scintillation detection units contain not only a scintillator, but also a photographic recorder (photoelectron multiplier or photodiode)! It all depends on how the window is arranged - if the layer of the protective casing is thin, then the electrons will completely pass and perfectly register ... in any case, you can measure the bremsstrahlung from electrons .... request


      Scintillation crystals can detect alpha and beta, but as I understand it, they most often go in metal cases that shield this radiation.

      Quote: ser56
      7) "Both radioactive objects - a porcelain cat and a tachometer, being wrapped in plastic bags, several layers of food foil, and put in another plastic bag," hmm, use materials for protection that cannot provide it? bully it would be better if they put it in a saucepan made of stainless steel, and even better in a cast-iron duckling ...


      The package will completely delay alpha, foil beta (SBM-20 sensors in some dosimeters are wrapped with foil to exclude the influence of bat radiation). In general, packets are needed first of all so that if the coating crumbles, it does not enter the body of nearby people with dust, but remains in the package.

      Quote: ser56
      further laziness ... there is a good principle - you do not know the subject professionally, do not write ... bully


      Good advice, take advantage.
      1. ser56
        ser56 4 October 2019 15: 41
        +1
        Quote: AVM
        Both that and another are true, there is no error.

        you are mistaken, only my definition is true ... request
        Quote: AVM
        but from neutrons it will be more, because it is a massive particle.

        well, in such analogies it is difficult to discuss - alpha is even more massive ....
        cross sections of reactions are important, and they depend on the energy of particles and matter ...
        Quote: AVM
        Can
        why didn’t you indicate?
        Quote: AVM
        Alpha and beta will always have lower penetration than gamma and neutrons.

        I repeat - it depends on energy and material ...
        Quote: AVM
        State website:

        ale me authority Gusev or Mashkovich ... hi
        Quote: AVM
        In dosimeters, sievert and X-rays are switched in the settings with the coefficient 100.

        I politely corrected you, if you do not know, it is better to study, and not to write nonsense ...
        1) Physical units named after scientists are written with a capital
        2) Sv and P measure MISCELLANEOUS! Even for photons, these values ​​do not coincide, and for other types of radiation, the quality factors are generally different, up to 20 ...
        Quote: AVM
        There, not only uranium was used, but also radium often.

        radium for glaze? bully
        Quote: AVM
        In those days, they might not have known that a person received stomach or lung cancer from him

        did you discover the nature of cancer? hi happy for you - when will you get the Nobel? fool
        Quote: AVM
        In my opinion, you wrote the same thing as I did, only in other words.

        which speaks only of your incompetence ... request
        Quote: AVM
        they most often go in metal casings,

        depends on the device, sometimes they are made removable ...
        1. Shopping Mall
          4 October 2019 16: 09
          +1
          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          Both that and another are true, there is no error.

          you are mistaken, only my definition is true ... request


          And I didn’t give a "definition", I talked about the meaning of radiation. And in meaning, this is precisely radiation with a different wavelength:


          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          but from neutrons it will be more, because it is a massive particle.

          well, in such analogies it is difficult to discuss - alpha is even more massive ....
          cross sections of reactions are important, and they depend on the energy of particles and matter ...


          Important, but here: https://habr.com/en/post/448432/
          everything is very well painted:
          in which case does irradiation cause nuclear reactions and lead to the appearance of artificial radioactivity?
          “As I said, neutrons have a special ability for this. It is not difficult to guess what the reason is: the neutron easily penetrates into the nucleus. He does not need to overcome electrostatic repulsion, like a proton or alpha particle. At the same time, a neutron is the same building material of the nucleus as those protons and neutrons; it is also capable of entering into a strong interaction. Therefore, the chemical element number zero is the very “philosophical stone” of alchemists. Rather, they could be called "alphysicists" if this word had not been used in relation to adepts of ether and torsion fields.

          A neutron of any energy can cause a nuclear transformation, up to zero. But other particles must have a sufficiently large energy for this. I already spoke about alpha particles (like protons): they need to overcome the Coulomb repulsion. For light elements, the alpha-particle energy requirement is a few megaelectron-volts — that is, what alpha particles emitted by heavy unstable nuclei possess. And the heavier ones already need dozens of MeV - such energy can be obtained only in the accelerator. In addition, with an increase in the mass of the nucleus, it itself is less and less willing to react with the alpha particle: for iron, the addition of nucleons to the nucleus proceeds with an expense rather than with the release of energy. If we also take into account the extremely low penetrating ability of alpha particles into the target, it becomes clear that even with a very powerful stream of alpha particles, the intensity of artificial radioactivity is low.

          But what about the other particles? Electrons, photons? They do not need to overcome repulsion, but they are reluctant to interact with the core. An electron can only enter into electromagnetic and weak interactions and in most cases (with the exception of nuclei that are unstable to electron capture), such a reaction is possible only if the electron transfers a significant energy to the nucleus sufficient to detach the nucleon from the nucleus. The same applies to the photon - only a photon of a sufficiently high energy can excite a photonuclear reaction, but an electron loses energy in a substance much faster than a photon, which is why it is less efficient. ”


          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          Can
          why didn’t you indicate?


          Because this is not a dissertation, and it is impossible to take into account all aspects in the article.

          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          Alpha and beta will always have lower penetration than gamma and neutrons.

          I repeat - it depends on energy and material ...:


          In theory, we are interested in practice.

          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          In dosimeters, sievert and X-rays are switched in the settings with the coefficient 100.

          I politely corrected you, if you do not know, it is better to study, and not to write nonsense ...


          And I indicated the reason for you: In dosimeters, sievert and X-rays are switched in the settings with the coefficient 100. In older dosimeters, data are displayed in x-rays, in some new dosimeters, only in sievert. Values ​​are indicated in pairs to make it easier to navigate.

          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          1) Physical units named after scientists are written with a capital


          This, of course, is most important. Unfortunately, this rule is very rarely observed.

          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          There, not only uranium was used, but also radium often.

          radium for glaze? bully


          Glowing paint with radium was made for watches and toys. The lenses were made with thorium. At least read carefully.

          Quote: ser56
          Quote: AVM
          In those days, they might not have known that a person received stomach or lung cancer from him

          did you discover the nature of cancer? hi happy for you - when will you get the Nobel? fool


          Cancer is the common name for oncological diseases; no need to fool around. Or do you claim that radioactive substances and oncology are not related? Well then, welcome to the camp of flat land advocates and HIV deniers.
          1. ser56
            ser56 4 October 2019 17: 04
            0
            Quote: AVM
            And in meaning, this is precisely radiation with a different wavelength:

            nothing like that - I don’t need pictures from murzilka - I gave you the definition ... hi
            Quote: AVM
            everything is very well painted:

            I have shorter and more correct ... bully
            Quote: AVM
            Because this is not a dissertation, and it is impossible to take into account all aspects in the article.

            when read by the public, they would reflect an incorrect view of things ... hi
            Quote: AVM
            In theory, we are interested in practice.

            Are you able to calculate the protection against a nuclear reactor? I - yes ... bully I recommend looking for physically correct formulations ...
            Quote: AVM
            And I indicated the reason for you:

            this is not a reason to write nonsense ... bully
            Quote: AVM
            This, of course, is most important.

            strange statement of a question ...
            Quote: AVM
            Unfortunately, this rule is very rarely observed.

            only in murzilki ....
            Quote: AVM
            Glowing paint with radium was made for watches and toys. The lenses were made with thorium. At least read carefully.

            Is that kitty glowing? bully
            we read "A small addition of uranium imparts a beautiful yellow-green fluorescence to glass (see Uranium glass) [33].
            Sodium uranate Na2U2O7 was used as a yellow pigment in the painting [33].
            Uranium compounds were used as paints for painting on porcelain and for ceramic glazes and enamels (they are painted in colors: yellow, brown, green and black, depending on the oxidation state) [33]. "
            I strongly recommend that you read the article on Uranium Glass on the Wiki - briefly, readily and accurately written ... hi
            Quote: AVM
            Or do you claim that radioactive substances and oncology are not related?

            I affirm that the connection is not exactly established! If you know the connection, bully would not be kind enough to report what is the likelihood of developing cancer with a dose of 50 szv? hi This is from the opera - each cigarette shortens life by XX minutes ... crying
            Quote: AVM
            Well then, welcome to the camp of flat land advocates and HIV deniers.

            you are already in the camp of amateurs and radiophobes ... hi
            1. Shopping Mall
              4 October 2019 17: 53
              +1
              Quote: ser56
              ... I gave you ... hi , me shorter and more correct ... bully , when read by the public, they would reflect an incorrect view of things ... hiAre you able to calculate the protection against a nuclear reactor? I - yes ... bully I recommend looking for physically correct formulations ...


              Well, write a competent and interesting article that is understandable to most readers. Who is bothering?

              Quote: ser56
              Quote: AVM
              And I indicated the reason for you:

              this is not a reason to write nonsense ... bully .


              What nonsense? They tell you in Russian that two dosimeters indicate the same value in different units. For some, the dosimeter in X-rays shows the 11 background, for others, in 0,11 microsievert

              For convenience, this is an accepted standard:
              It is also true that 100 X-ray = 1 sievert with the caveat that the biological effect of X-rays (or other photon radiation, for example, gamma radiation) is considered.


              Quote: ser56
              Quote: AVM
              Unfortunately, this rule is very rarely observed.

              only in murzilki ....


              First, learn how to follow your mistakes in the text, and at least write something yourself.

              Quote: ser56
              Quote: AVM
              Glowing paint with radium was made for watches and toys. The lenses were made with thorium. At least read carefully.
              Is that kitty glowing? bully
              we read "A small addition of uranium imparts a beautiful yellow-green fluorescence to glass (see Uranium glass) [33].
              Sodium uranate Na2U2O7 was used as a yellow pigment in the painting [33].
              Uranium compounds were used as paints for painting on porcelain and for ceramic glazes and enamels (they are painted in colors: yellow, brown, green and black, depending on the oxidation state) [33]. "
              I strongly recommend that you read the article on Uranium Glass on the Wiki - briefly, readily and accurately written ... hi


              Do you stubbornly not see part of the text and images?

              The first luminous paint based on radium salts was made in 1902, then it began to be used for a large number of applied tasks, even painted Christmas toys and children's books for the sake of radiance. Wrist watches with numbers filled with radioactive paint became the standard for the military, all watches during the First World War were with radium paint on numbers and hands. Large chronometers with a large dial and numbers could sound up to 10 000 micro-roentgen per hour (pay attention to this figure, we will return to it later).


              Quote: ser56
              Quote: AVM
              Or do you claim that radioactive substances and oncology are not related?

              I affirm that the connection is not exactly established! If you know the connection, bully would not be kind enough to report what is the likelihood of developing cancer with a dose of 50 szv? hi This is from the opera - each cigarette shortens life by XX minutes ... crying


              Yeah, I ran for a calculator ...

              I recommend to wear it, after a couple of years, feel the connection on yourself.
              https://ru.aliexpress.com/i/32994474932.html?spm=a2g0v.search0303.3.53.1a68e7fczW6oa4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0,searchweb201603_0,ppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=d52eb6a9-af6c-4b68-8204-8d24eb006774&algo_expid=d52eb6a9-af6c-4b68-8204-8d24eb006774-6
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. Shopping Mall
              4 October 2019 17: 36
              +1
              Quote: ser56
              Dear Andrey!
              I went to the seller’s website and looked at your Radioscan-701A device. Mena was alerted by the lack of the PCT badge on the front side. I have to disappoint you, you took measurements on a measuring device ... We read it THEN:
              "Portable autonomous indicator of radioactivity RadiaScan 501 (701) (hereinafter Indicator
              or product) is intended to warn the user about the possible radiation hazard of both the surrounding area and individual objects. Indicator designed for rate current radiation situation; estimates of the background radiation level by the value of the ambient dose rate
              (hereinafter dose rate) photon (gamma and X-ray) radiation; ... "
              https://mydozimetr.ru/catalog/dozimetry/indikator-radioaktivnosti-radiaskan-701-a/?utm_source=yandex&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=44446908&utm_content=3880789483|7730937844|17430605361|1|%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%A1%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%20701%20%D0%B0&utm_term=17430605361&yclid=5834353663275990306

              I highlighted the key word - the device does not measure, but evaluates ... bully In general, in his bucket ... hi


              On the seller’s website there is an exact copy of my 801A Radioscan dosimeter with state verification.
              https://mydozimetr.ru/catalog/dozimetry/radiaskan-801-gospoverka/

              For domestic purposes, devices with state verification are rarely taken, since this is an additional payment of the order of 10000 p. Do you think that in untrusted devices intentionally underestimate the performance? The network is full of tests and reviews of dosimeters, attorneys and untrusted.

              Throw away your keyboard better ...
              1. ser56
                ser56 4 October 2019 17: 42
                -1
                if it's not a secret - in your article: "The measurements were carried out by a dosimeter of model 701A provided by the Radiascan company", in the discussion already [quote = AVM] Radiascan 801A with [/ quote]
                bully Changed shoes in the air? [quote = AVM]
                [quote = AVM] Do you think that in untrusted devices intentionally underestimate the performance? [/ quote]
                I KNOW that measurements made by non-calibrated instruments are void ... request That is why it is written in TO - indication ... laughing
                [quote = AVM] Throw away your keyboard better ... [/ quote]
                1) unlike your device, my keyboard is operational and there is no reason to throw it away ... request
                2) I draw your attention to the fact that you did not realize that you misled the readers with your "measurements" ...
                1. Shopping Mall
                  4 October 2019 17: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: ser56
                  if it's not a secret - in your article: "The measurements were carried out with a dosimeter model 701A provided by Radiascan", in the discussion already
                  Quote: AVM
                  801 radio scan with

                  bully Changed shoes in the air?


                  I wrote that the 701A Radioscan and the 801 Radioscan are the same device. The first is not an attorney, the second is an attorney.

                  Quote: ser56
                  Quote: AVM
                  Do you think that in untrusted devices intentionally underestimate the performance?

                  I KNOW that measurements made by non-calibrated instruments are void ... request That is why it is written in TO - indication ... laughing


                  They are null and void for documents, but not for prudent use. If the compass is not verified, this does not mean that it does not accurately indicate the direction. I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the testimony. Moreover, they were checked by an attorney (both a cat and a tachometer).

                  Quote: ser56
                  Quote: AVM
                  Throw away your keyboard better ...

                  1) unlike your device, my keyboard is operational and there is no reason to throw it away ... request
                  2) I draw your attention to the fact that you did not realize that you misled the readers with your "measurements" ...


                  Like a dosimeter. And you are trying to hide behind a bureaucratic approach - like there is no piece of paper. And all dimensions are real, and the allegations of “misleading” are just slander.
                  1. ser56
                    ser56 4 October 2019 18: 07
                    -1
                    Quote: AVM
                    The first is not an attorney, the second is an attorney.

                    funny with you .... bully
                    Quote: AVM
                    They are null and void for documents, but not for prudent use. E

                    you get funny ... bully reasonable use is not for documents .... bully
                    By the way, are you ready to eat food purchased without certificates? crying
                    Quote: AVM
                    Moreover, they were checked by an attorney

                    why didn’t the data bring? Or is your article an advertisement for this untrusted indicator? feel
                    Quote: AVM
                    And you are trying to hide behind a bureaucratic approach - like there is no piece of paper.

                    if there is no piece of paper, then NOBODY is responsible for the measurements, as the manufacturer honestly writes ... bully
                    Quote: AVM
                    And all dimensions are real, and the allegations of “misleading” are just slander.

                    By no means is it just a statement of fact - the readings of your "indicator" are nothing more than an empty space ... It is a pity that you do not have a technical education, and you are climbing into the jungle of technology ... request
                    However, sue - even at the stage of filing an application, they will explain your place ... hi
                    1. Shopping Mall
                      4 October 2019 18: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: ser56
                      Quote: AVM
                      The first is not an attorney, the second is an attorney.
                      funny with you .... bully


                      And with you no, you are terribly annoying.

                      Quote: ser56
                      Quote: AVM
                      They are null and void for documents, but not for prudent use. E
                      you get funny ... bully reasonable use is not for documents .... bully
                      By the way, are you ready to eat food purchased without certificates? crying


                      I imagine how you are presented with certificates for all products in the store, and of course, this guarantees its highest quality. No delay, no nitrates, no heavy metals in the composition.

                      Just do not say that I'm like this - heavy metal nitrate /

                      Quote: ser56
                      Quote: AVM
                      Moreover, they were checked by an attorney

                      why didn’t the data bring? Or is your article an advertisement for this untrusted indicator? feel


                      Because they were done by another person, at another time and in another place, but the data coincide with the measurement error in the location of the dosimeters by approximately 10%.

                      Quote: ser56
                      Quote: AVM
                      And you are trying to hide behind a bureaucratic approach - like there is no piece of paper.
                      if there is no piece of paper, then NOBODY is responsible for the measurements, as the manufacturer honestly writes ... bully


                      He is legally obliged to write this way, but all reasonable people understand what’s what. Do you want to prove something out of obstinacy? That the cat does not phonite more than on 1000 microroentgen, or a tachometer on 8000?

                      Quote: ser56
                      Quote: AVM
                      And all dimensions are real, and the allegations of “misleading” are just slander.

                      By no means is it just a statement of fact - the readings of your "indicator" are nothing more than an empty space ... It is a pity that you do not have a technical education, and you are climbing into the jungle of technology ... request
                      However, sue - even at the stage of filing an application, they will explain your place ... hi


                      I have technical education, I’m not going to sue anyone.

                      The opinion of a person who denies the connection between oncology and radiation is certainly important to me. I am sure that all liquidators of the Chernobyl accident would love to discuss this issue with you.
                      1. ser56
                        ser56 4 October 2019 18: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: AVM
                        and of course, this guarantees its highest quality.

                        you don’t understand how the certification system works, but I’m not surprised at this, your knowledge is indicator ... bully
                        Quote: AVM
                        the data coincide with the measurement error for the location of the dosimeters by about 10%.

                        those. you don’t even have any idea what measurements can be compared ... there are no further questions ... hi
                        Quote: AVM
                        He is legally obliged to write this way, but all reasonable people understand what’s what.

                        you have a misconception about rationality ... bully
                        Quote: AVM
                        That the cat does not phonite more than 1000 micro-roentgen, or a tachometer for 8000?
                        I'm not talking about numbers without measurements ... request
                        Quote: AVM
                        I have a technical education

                        it seems like a behind-the-ear, or finished something terribly freelance ... request
                        you don’t have commonplace concepts about metrology ... feel
                        Quote: AVM
                        which denies the connection between oncology and radiation

                        fi, switched to a lie ... but on the network just to show it ... bully
                        read me
                        Quote: ser56
                        I affirm that the connection is not exactly established

                        and forced to recognize you as a liar ... request
                      2. Shopping Mall
                        4 October 2019 18: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: ser56
                        Quote: AVM
                        which denies the connection between oncology and radiation

                        fi, switched to a lie ... but on the network just to show it ... bully
                        read me
                        Quote: ser56
                        I affirm that the connection is not exactly established

                        and forced to recognize you as a liar ... request


                        Good pun, in a bureaucratic style.
                      3. ser56
                        ser56 4 October 2019 18: 58
                        -1
                        Quote: AVM
                        Good pun, in a bureaucratic style.

                        Not at all, you just have to learn to answer for your words ... request
                        Lied - then lied ... bully
      2. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 5 October 2019 13: 44
        +2
        Quote: AVM
        Both that and another are true, there is no error.
        Only your explanation is true, Andrei.
        Quote: AVM
        15 microsievert per hour, or 1500 micro-roentgen per hour
        The phrase is quite literate (although it is based on very strong assumptions, but these are generally accepted assumptions).
        Quote: AVM
        that scintillation crystals only detect gamma radiation
        Scintillation crystals "detect" any radiation, probably only except for those alpha energies that may be from natural sources. What scintillation dosimeters can detect depends on the type of scintillator, window thickness and other parts of the device. But it appears that most modern household appliances use semiconductor sensors. Moreover, they, apparently, do not measure the energy, but only count and give only a rough estimate - is there radiation or not. Many household appliances will not detect radon, although it emits X-rays - there is not enough gamma-quat energy for registration.
        The rest is an interesting and correct article.
        1. Falcon5555
          Falcon5555 5 October 2019 14: 19
          0
          I'll get better - judging by the Internet, gas-discharge meters are also used in household appliances. So much the worse for them (and for us) - they only count registration events for sure, and do not measure the radiation energy. So the term "dosimeter" is conditional for them.
          1. ser56
            ser56 7 October 2019 15: 59
            0
            Quote: Falcon5555
            they just count registration events, and not measure radiation energy

            depends on the mode - if in proportional counter mode, then it’s completely correct ..
            Quote: Falcon5555
            So the term "dosimeter" is conditional for them.

            These are a priori radiometers ... hi
        2. ser56
          ser56 7 October 2019 15: 53
          -1
          Quote: Falcon5555
          The phrase is quite literate (although it is based on very strong assumptions, but these are generally accepted assumptions).

          illiterate phrase in principle, such assumptions can only be accepted among amateurs ... bully
          Quote: Falcon5555
          Only your explanation is true, Andrei.

          To begin with, sort it out at your leisure with the difference between the exposure dose and the equivalent dose ... request
    2. MichaelS
      MichaelS 4 October 2019 22: 16
      +1
      Sergey, I can see without a dosimeter, you are a very smart, educated and deeply erudite specialist. Can I read your articles on radiation? I already learned a lot from your comments, but this is not enough for me, I want more.
      1. ser56
        ser56 5 October 2019 13: 25
        -1
        write in a personal, throw off the links ....
        1. MichaelS
          MichaelS 7 October 2019 14: 39
          +1
          Sergey, please discard the links to your articles to everyone. I do not think that I am so special that I am worthy to become the sole heir to your secret sacred knowledge. The time of troubles has come. People get involved in disputes and discussions, catastrophically losing time on comments in other forums. It's time to end this! Everyone wants to learn, but not everyone is ready to admit it. Save the world.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
  21. Old26
    Old26 4 October 2019 18: 57
    +2
    Quote: AVM
    A bag with NAZ is certainly good, but because the 15-25 thousand is some kind of prohibitive price, PMSM is wrong. Look at the sales of cell phones, televisions and other consumer goods. How many iPhones are sold, some change every year or every two years. I think that for the majority this is quite a lifting amount. If not, then you can take a dosimeter on SBM-20 and take 5000.

    Sales of mobile phones and other things ... There is a Russian proverb: "Du.rakam, the law is not written." If you are going to flaunt another iPhone in front of your boyfriends every six months (most often for parental money and borrowed loans) - well, what can you do. Maybe it will improve with age

    It all depends on the region of residence. And if you have an average salary of 25-30 thousand in your city, then not many people will be able to lay out almost the average monthly salary. At least in the provinces, for the majority, this price is quite high. And to buy a thing that is unlikely to be used when - this is an unlikely event. Yes, you can buy a cheap device for the same 5000 rubles. The question becomes the following. And how much he will really produce results that correspond to realities.
    It seems Ford once said that he was not rich enough to buy cheap things. Most often "cheap" and does not work well. Of course there are certainly exceptions

    Moreover, it all depends on the place of residence. It's one thing - the areas of Chernobyl, Snezhinsk, the same Nenoksa and several others - yes, there this thing is part of basic necessities. In other places, for example in the same North Caucasus, there are very few such places. Here, for people living near the riverbed, the danger is different, that some idiot on the reservoir upstream to prevent the dam from breaking will start an uncontrolled discharge of water and will have to escape from the house, grabbing something that will be under by hand. But in this case, I think that a bag with NAZ will not be superfluous, especially if the evacuation will be spontaneous, and not in normal mode. The same bag with NAZ will come in handy much more than a good dosimeter. But this is my personal opinion based on the place of residence. I do not impose it on anyone.

    Quote: AVM
    And if it comes in handy, it won't come in handy, it's like with a pistol - "In order for a weapon to save a life one day, you need to carry it with you all your life, while you may never need it in your entire life."
    No one knows how the situation in the country and in the world will turn around; in the worst case scenario, it would not be necessary to go through a Fallout in real life. Moreover, it is not known that they will bring us from China, and someone else has a specific enterprise on hand.

    Well, a gun is such a thing that also does not guarantee life saving. Especially in the event of a global catastrophe, the idea of ​​creating a small community would be more viable than using a pistol for yourself personally as a defense. Shakalya will oh how much and really alone can not resist. In other cases, a gun will not be needed in 99,9 cases. To survive, you will need a slightly different set of tools than a gun or dosimeter.

    Quote: AVM
    See the post below, there is still no exact data about the accident near Severodvinsk. I really do not want to make decisions in such a situation relying on unverified information.

    Andrew! I will repeat myself one more time. I do not mind if a person has such a device at home. Especially a person living in an area that at one time was exposed to infection. For the vast majority, such a device is unlikely to ever be needed. Especially if you live far from dangerous places and industries. But to be in the zone of a natural disaster is now sometimes much easier and more likely than even in the zone of a man-made disaster. Moreover, if one of such man-made disasters occurs in the city, for example, the release of chlorine at the Vodokanal enterprise or in warehouses, the dosimeter is unlikely to help. Here you need to know how to lower the "cloud" of chlorine below the plinth and whether there are any opportunities for this. Or just legs

    Quote: AVM
    And about what to do, it is variable. At a minimum, put on a respirator, close windows, plug in gaps, thoroughly wash dishes and products, since the most dangerous thing is dust from the radiation source inside. As a maximum, evacuate without waiting until it is forcibly done (give, for example, 15 minutes to fees), or vice versa, close the territory.

    Now let's move on to the next point. Again, it concerns an exceptionally small number of the population. That is, at home you need to have at least a respirator (or better, probably a gas mask). You need to have appropriate clothing such as OZK or similar. Sealing the room (okay, there are just not so many problems with this). What else? Have food supplies, best of all in the form of non-perishable food (possibly dry food). This is if you stay at home before the forced evacuation begins. If you have your own car, then it will hardly be possible to get out of the infected zone without having a complete picture, not knowing where the "trail" went.
    Let me summarize. The article is quite interesting in the quality of "educational program". Well, I don't think that everyone will now go buy a dosimeter. You were right in writing.
    The presence of a dosimeter in the arsenal of an average citizen, although not necessary, is highly desirable.
    I would only swap two words - optional and desirable. The phrase would have sounded like this
    The presence of a dosimeter in the arsenal of an average citizen is desirable, but not necessary
    And again, taking into account the places of residence
    1. Shopping Mall
      7 October 2019 10: 59
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      It all depends on the region of residence. And if you have an average salary in the city of 25-30 thousand, then not so many people will lay out almost the average monthly salary. At least in the provinces, this price is quite high for the majority. And buying a thing that is unlikely to ever be used is an unlikely event. Yes, you can buy a cheap device for the same 5000 rubles. The question becomes the following. And how realistic it will be to produce results that correspond to realities It seems Ford once said that he was not rich enough to buy cheap things. Most often "cheap" and does not work well. Of course there are certainly exceptions


      Relatively inexpensive models costing 5-10 thousand rubles. in their parameters are close to Soviet dosimeters, i.e. can adequately measure the gamut. Also there is an option B. at. Soviet dosimeters, but there is a risk of running into a malfunction, so for me it is better to have a new, albeit entry-level. The main thing is not to take the most consumer goods - set-top boxes for phones, combined models - nitrates, radiation, EM radiation and so on, most likely they make everything worse, and other crafts.

      And yes, it must be borne in mind that the dosimeter is bought for 5-10 years. Unless of course then radiophobia / radiophilia does not appear)

      You can draw an analogy with respirators. It’s best to have a good gas mask, but it’s like some equivalent of a professional dosimeter, (50000 dosimeter, 5000 gas mask), then a high-quality respirator with a carbon filter (here I have them for the whole family, according to 500-700 rubles per unit, analogues of the dosimeter, which measures alpha and soft beta for 15-20 TR), then a simple construction respirator for 200 r. (dosimeter for 5000 p.), it is clear that this is all conditional, just for example.

      Quote: Old26
      Moreover, it all depends on the place of residence. It's one thing - the areas of Chernobyl, Snezhinsk, the same Nenoksa and several others - yes, there this thing is part of basic necessities. In other places, for example in the same North Caucasus, there are very few such places. Here, for people living near the riverbed, the danger is different, that some idiot on the reservoir upstream to prevent the dam from breaking will start an uncontrolled discharge of water and will have to escape from the house, grabbing something that will be under by hand. But in this case, I think that a bag with NAZ will not be superfluous, especially if the evacuation will be spontaneous, and not in normal mode. The same bag with NAZ will come in handy much more than a good dosimeter. But this is my personal opinion based on the place of residence. I do not impose it on anyone.


      A bag with NAZ is always not superfluous, but it does not exclude the dosimeter, rather it can be included in the NAZ (lightweight, takes up little space). By the way, thanks for the idea, you can write an article about NAZ later.

      The region is a specific concept, from Chernobyl to the floor of the country the poison scattered, but it appeared without warning. Hospitals and industrial enterprises with radioactive equipment are almost everywhere. It is difficult to predict what gets into, as in Kramatorsk. And there are military facilities, about many of which we do not know.

      Quote: Old26
      Well, a gun is such a thing that also does not guarantee life saving. Especially in the event of a global catastrophe, the idea of ​​creating a small community would be more viable than using a pistol for yourself personally as a defense. Shakalya will oh how much and really alone can not resist. In other cases, a gun will not be needed in 99,9 cases. To survive, you will need a slightly different set of tools than a gun or dosimeter.


      The gun needs readiness and the ability to use it, of course. The community cannot be created in one day, and it must be armed, but it is the first days of the jackal that can break the chain - looting, robbery, violence, etc., I would prefer to be “more toothy”.

      Quote: Old26
      Here you need to know how to lower the "cloud" of chlorine below the plinth and if there are any opportunities for this. Or just legs


      About chem. Infections I also studied the topic. It seems that only the legs, because it is difficult to assess its scale. I studied on the example of someone's dissertation or diploma in Nizhny Novgorod. It is scary to imagine how many chemically hazardous substances are in cities. + if the train passes a branch, then a lot of things are brought along it.

      Quote: Old26
      Now let's move on to the next point. Again, it concerns an exceptionally small number of the population. That is, at home you need to have at least a respirator (or better, probably a gas mask). You need to have appropriate clothing such as OZK or similar. Sealing the room (okay, there are just not so many problems with this). What else? Have food supplies, best of all in the form of non-perishable food (possibly dry food). This is if you stay at home before the forced evacuation begins. If you have your own car, then it will hardly be possible to get out of the infected zone without having a complete picture, not knowing where the "trail" went.


      OZK okay, at least polyethylene wraps. In addition to food, you must have a supply of water and hygiene products - wet and dry wipes, disposable tableware, etc.

      If the level of infection is high, then it is better to try to immediately leave at least somewhere, until it is blocked. If there are specific objects nearby, then taking into account their location.

      If the infection level is not the highest, then you can wait for information. The downside is that the car may then not be let out, and you can only take what you carry in your hands.
    2. Shopping Mall
      30 January 2020 14: 12
      0
      Quote: Old26
      It all depends on the region of residence. And if you have an average salary of 25-30 thousand in your city, then not many people will be able to lay out almost the average monthly salary. At least in the provinces, for the majority, this price is quite high. And to buy a thing that is unlikely to be used when - this is an unlikely event. Yes, you can buy a cheap device for the same 5000 rubles. The question becomes the following. And how much he will really produce results that correspond to realities.


      In continuation of our conversation on dosimeters and their cost. My friend, a radiophile, found on Avito a seller of various army goods from storage - the Deltarezer, and purchased from him an army dosimeter dp-5V for 1200 rubles. https://www.avito.ru/sankt-peterburg_krasnoye_selo/kollektsionirovanie/dozimetr_dp-5v_1480885526

      The thing is not compact, but impressive, in the near future I will also become the owner of this, especially since it has a control source. It seems that there are spare parts for them. So you can become the owner of high-quality army equipment for little money - with delivery will be about 2000 p.

      Not an advertisement.
  22. trahterist
    trahterist 6 October 2019 21: 38
    0
    I looked in ebee RadioScan-701 ...
    And the price tag is not cheap, starting with 250 £ for little used.
    But there are all the bells and whistles.
    1. Shopping Mall
      7 October 2019 11: 06
      +2
      Quote: trahterist
      I looked in ebee RadioScan-701 ...
      And the price tag is not cheap, starting with 250 £ for little used.
      But there are all the bells and whistles.


      They are more expensive, with dosimeters Russia is in the lead. We have a new Radioskan-701A stands 17500 -
      https://mydozimetr.ru/catalog/dozimetry/indikator-radioaktivnosti-radiaskan-701-a/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=360467423174|b|1t1&utm_campaign=2055217811&utm_term=kwd-819988535950&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItPS0hdeJ5QIVhOJ3Ch32XgeJEAAYASAAEgKK1vD_BwE

      When the event in Fukushima took place in Japan, household dosimeters were sold there for 2000-3000 $.
  23. Old26
    Old26 8 October 2019 14: 58
    +4
    Quote: AVM
    You can draw an analogy with respirators. It’s best to have a good gas mask, but it’s like some equivalent of a professional dosimeter, (50000 dosimeter, 5000 gas mask), then a high-quality respirator with a carbon filter (here I have them for the whole family, according to 500-700 rubles per unit, analogues of the dosimeter, which measures alpha and soft beta for 15-20 TR), then a simple construction respirator for 200 r. (dosimeter for 5000 p.), it is clear that this is all conditional, just for example.

    And I have one gas mask for the whole family laughing While working at the plant, when the collapse began and the GO structure at the plant was being closed, the head of this structure, his neighbors, "gifted" everyone with a gas mask. I repeat, Andrey! I am not against the dosimeter at home, as such. I just now think that he is not really needed at home. I live in the Stavropol Territory. The nearest production, where measurements would be needed, is far enough away. I just don't see the need. At least for the time being
    As for consumer goods, I agree to all 100. Consumer goods and "universalism" are not very fond of. especially universalism, when the "Device" turns out to be no
    This is how I met a universal spatula in the store, in terms of size, like a small sapper, but with a replaceable tool. There is an ax, and a saw, and a knife blade, and a shovel. But still it is better to have everything separately, separately a small sapper, separately an ax, a saw and a knife. And I had a universal one in the 80s. Failed six months later

    Quote: AVM
    A bag with NAZ is always not superfluous, but it does not exclude the dosimeter, rather it can be included in the NAZ (lightweight, takes up little space). By the way, thanks for the idea about NAZ, you can write an article later ..

    Dosimeter in NAZ? This is called blindness (about yourself). But in reality it will not be superfluous. Especially if there will be a large-scale technological disaster
    As for the article - I think it would not be superfluous. And many comrades can contribute their vision to this topic. She has always been interesting. In my youth I was engaged in tourism and I always remember how every trip, every trip to nature, fishing, "to a collective farm" raised the question of what to take with you. And then the choice was oh what a poor one. Now each of us is rich in this regard, like Croesus laughing

    Quote: AVM
    The region is a specific concept, from Chernobyl to the floor of the country the poison scattered, but it appeared without warning. Hospitals and industrial enterprises with radioactive equipment are almost everywhere. It is difficult to predict what gets into, as in Kramatorsk. And there are military facilities, about many of which we do not know.

    The concept is specific and of course, IMHO, no one is insured. Hospitals - although there are isotopes, fortunately they are not lying on the street. As for the specificity of the concept of a region, I completely agree. I myself spent a decade and a half in Novocherkassk, and when we went fishing very early on, the "tail" from the pipes of the state district power station, which worked on coal, was clearly visible in the gray sky. They even said that he phoned a little
    But there is nowhere to hide from this "tail". He walked straight to the city. Such was the wind rose. But with the Chernobyl precipitation we were lucky then. Has done

    Quote: AVM
    The gun needs readiness and the ability to use it, of course. The community cannot be created in one day, and it must be armed, but it is the first days of the jackal that can break the chain - looting, robbery, violence, etc., I would prefer to be “more toothy”.

    Andrew! About the gun - this is so, by the way. Although he himself had the first category in the pistol (Margolin's favorite pistol laughing ), and I know how to use it, but only with readiness - I DO NOT KNOW. Probably I can, but if you don’t apply it, you won’t say whether you are ready or not.
    Yes, the community will be created until it gets used to it - it will take time. "Toothed" is of course good, and in this context I will probably agree. At least it just won't take me

    Quote: AVM
    About chem. Infections I also studied the topic. It seems that only the legs, because it is difficult to assess its scale. I studied on the example of someone's dissertation or diploma in Nizhny Novgorod. It is scary to imagine how many chemically hazardous substances are in cities. + if the train passes a branch, then a lot of things are brought along it.

    For a decade and a half, I was the leader of a non-staff fire fighting group in the organization. Periodically, once every three years, there was training at the training center of the Ministry of Emergencies. Initially formal, but the last couple of times - there really was training. Moreover, they gave not only and not so much the number of resolutions, but also there was practice. From how to roll a fire hose to many specific details. Fortunately, some enterprises dealing with hazardous substances have sunk into oblivion, but chlorine in the Vodokanal system and at some enterprises is a problem. Although, of course, taught and "precipitate" a cloud of chlorine.

    Another problem is that the city is located on a hill, the terrain is rugged (the vertical difference is sometimes 200-300 meters), and the private sector is just below. If you can hide from the same chlorine in a five-story building, going up to the third or fourth floor, but in a “one-story city”, and even in a lowland, there is only hope for “legs” (transport will surely get stuck in traffic jams). Although, of course, everything depends on many factors, but nevertheless.

    Quote: AVM
    OZK okay, at least polyethylene wraps. In addition to food, you must have a supply of water and hygiene products - wet and dry wipes, disposable tableware, etc.

    If the level of infection is high, then it is better to try to immediately leave at least somewhere, until it is blocked. If there are specific objects nearby, then taking into account their location.

    If the infection level is not the highest, then you can wait for information. The downside is that the car may then not be let out, and you can only take what you carry in your hands.

    As for the OZK - this is a joke, although when our military school was disbanded 10 years ago, the guys "fitted" a cloak and stockings. Somewhere lying on the mezzanine.
    There are polyethylene wraps for the whole family and even more. My father is a veteran and in the parade, especially if the sky is cloudy and it may be raining, such capes would be issued. Plus his officer cape ...
    Water? Yes, incl. and some renewable stock because you can expect anything from our utilities. A shutdown is announced in connection with the repair work - but the water is not turned off. Or vice versa. No warnings and - bam! And several hours without water. But for the toilet, in contrast to the yard "birdhouse", water is needed laughing
    Food? Well, probably every house has some supply of cereals. Canned food (a certain amount), In principle, they departed from the spins, and even pickled tomatoes and cucumbers are not really eaten.
    In principle, it is now possible to purchase Suhpay (IRP-P), if you really need to have an untouchable supply ...
    Disposable dishes are there, as are napkins (dry and wet), toilet paper ...

    Departure is fraught with a problem, and where to leave, especially if there is no information. If you have a car, you can of course try to drive somewhere, taking into account the knowledge of the wind directions and related factors. Then? Then in reality there may be problems with the machine, although all evacuation plans are calculated including taking into account personal vehicles. Just a column can move centrally
    1. Shopping Mall
      8 October 2019 16: 02
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      In my youth I was engaged in tourism and I always remember how every trip, every trip to nature, fishing, "to a collective farm" raised the question of what to take with you. And then the choice was oh what a poor one. Now each of us is rich in this regard, like Croesus laughing


      Yes, it’s the other way around, the problem of choice ...
      Because of this, sometimes it turns out that a person is so focused on choosing, for example, fishing rods that he forgets about fish. And it turns out that he knows everything about fishing rods, he owns carbon, titanium fishing rods, sonars and radars, but he does not know how to fish.
  24. Old26
    Old26 9 October 2019 16: 08
    +2
    Quote: AVM
    Yes, it’s the other way around, the problem of choice ...
    Because of this, sometimes it turns out that a person is so focused on choosing, for example, fishing rods that he forgets about fish. And it turns out that he knows everything about fishing rods, he owns carbon, titanium fishing rods, sonars and radars, but he does not know how to fish.

    Yes, everything happens. I have, for example, a friend, not only is a professional fisherman a member of the carp fishing national team. And fishing rods (spinning rods) starting from a carbon fiber rod and ending ... laughing laughing
    But at the same time ALMOST NOT EAT FISH. Doesn't even eat at a pub laughing
    And with me with the "tool", that is, with knives, etc., there is always a problem of choice. What to take, since there is a choice. Gradually, the set develops, but sometimes one of my friends-acquaintances asks to take something else ...