Death from nowhere. About the mine war on the sea. Part of 3

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A lot of bad things can be said about the various forces of the Russian Navy, and not a lot of good things, but on this background, the anti-mine forces stand out in particular. The fact is that this is the only kind of force in the Navy, whose capabilities are equal to zero - strictly. Not more.

Yes, the submarine fleet does not have modern torpedoes, does not have hydroacoustic countermeasures, the level of training of personnel is low, and so on, but still it can do a lot, for example, against different countries of the “third world”. And against NATO in some cases and with a certain luck.



Yes, the surface fleet almost died, but even in its current state it is capable of inflicting losses on the majority of potential opponents, especially from its shores, and Syria has gathered a good grouping this summer, and then played its role by one hundred percent.

Yes, from the sea aviation there were horns and legs left, but still six planes, somehow capable of fighting modern submarines, we type, there are assault aviation regiments, there is a Tu-142M for long-range reconnaissance - and they conduct it well.

And so everywhere, except for mine forces. There is a zero. Full. Starting from senior officers who still believe in towed trawls, and brushing off modern Western mines from TTX, and ending with ships unfit to perform tasks for their intended purpose. Zero.

At the same time, injecting money into new minesweepers was simply in vain. The question of why this happened is multifaceted, complex and its full disclosure is impossible within the framework of one article. Let's just say - in conditions where the Navy has not been participating in hostilities for a long time, a whole class of military bureaucracy has grown around it, seeing navy only fin.flow, which must be saddled, and no more. The combat readiness issues with this approach do not interest anyone at all, nobody deals with them, and as a result, there is no combat readiness.

We are not so much interested in the question “who is to blame?”, But in the question “what to do?”, Which is worth concentrating on.

Consider how the situation in the Navy differs from what it should be.

Basically, the tasks of mine forces can be divided into the detection of mines and their destruction. Once upon a time, mines, if they were discovered, were only visually. Since the second half of the twentieth century, hydroacoustic stations, specially designed to search for small objects in the water column at shallow (first) depths, have been used as a means of detecting minefields. Such GUS, installed on minesweepers, allowed to detect the minefield directly along the course. In the future, GAS became more and more perfect, later remote-controlled uninhabited underwater vehicles were added to them - TNPA equipped with sonars and television cameras, crewless boats equipped with GUS appeared, side-scan sonars appeared, allowing the underwater situation to open, moving along the edge of the minefield.

In the future, the emergence of accurate positioning systems of the ship and the TNPA, the growth of computer capabilities, the increase in sonar resolution, made it possible to survey the bottom and water column in the protected area, detecting changes, new objects at the bottom and in the bottom layers of the water, which were not there before. Such objects could be checked immediately with the help of TNLA, making sure that it was not a mine.

Low-frequency HAS appeared, the signal of which, without providing a good resolution of the received “picture”, could, nevertheless, reveal silted bottom mines, which was a huge step forward. Now it has become hard to hide mine in that rubbish that is present in abundance on the seabed in the area of ​​intensive economic and military activity of man, in silt, in algae, among various large debris, drowned boats and boats, tires, and everything else there at the bottom. The silt inflicted by undercurrents was a separate problem, it could hide a mine from other search methods, but the low-frequency signal helped to “figure it out” with it. All these tools are effectively combined with each other, providing, if necessary, the so-called "continuous sonar illumination." High-frequency HAS give a good picture, allowing, for example, to detect a mine-torpedo installed at a depth, a low-frequency HAS makes it possible to look under the silt. It, plus computers and the perfect software, help to "cut off" the natural hindrances created by undercurrents. There are more advanced and able to control the situation - so technically it has long been possible to implement the so-called continuous sonar monitoring, when monitoring the underwater situation is carried out continuously using a wide range of sonar facilities that detect both the appearance of foreign objects (min) at the bottom and in the water and combat swimmers, for example.

On the approach, mass introduction of parametric antennas even in the Navy of small and weak countries — when beams of powerful sound waves with similar frequencies emitted in an aquatic environment parallel generate a zone in the water, a sort of “virtual” antenna, which is a source of powerful secondary oscillations, much more powerful than it can to give an ordinary sonar antenna of a reasonable size. This increases the efficiency of mine search by orders of magnitude. Such equipment is already coming into service in some countries.

Death from nowhere. About the mine war on the sea. Part of 3

In this diagram, a parametric ultrasound antenna. In hydroacoustics, the range will be very much shifted “to the left”, but the principle of forming an “antenna” from the medium volume is the same.


In cases where complex hydrology does not allow the “view” of the entire water column, TNPA are used. They also provide a classification found minopodobnyh objects, if it is difficult for the signals GUS.

Naturally, all of the above is reduced to one complex using automated mine action control systems that transform various means of detection (and destruction) into a single jointly operating complex, and form an information environment for operators and users in which the diversity of underwater is visually and simply displayed. environment, and is given the target of both forces and means of destruction.

It is not difficult to guess that our Navy has almost none of this.

Currently, the Navy has several dozens of minesweepers, one of which, Vice Admiral Zakharyin, has not the best, but adequate GAS mine detection, and the Mayevka STIUM, to search for and destroy mines under water. There are a couple of sea-sweepers of the 12260 project, who have high-frequency HAS, and in theory are capable of carrying ancient mine finders, KUU mine -1 and 2 (in practice these systems are “alive” now, it’s difficult to say. There is evidence with the Gyurza system, which has not reached the “series”), there are nine raid minesweepers of the 10750 project, possessing, so to speak, relatively acceptable GAS mine detection, and also capable of using mine seekers.

There are newest minesweepers of the 12700 Alexandrite project, conceived as carriers of modern mine action sonar stations, but few of them, and they are characterized by such a huge mass of flaws, which reduces the significance of these ships to zero. Until.

There are certain developments on the ACS, significantly inferior to the Western ones.

And that is all.

All other road, base and sea minesweepers are completely outdated, and for something more complicated than removing self-made anchor mines made by some self-taught militants in the garage is unsuitable. Old-time GAS, towed trawls and memories of old Soviet mine seekers — there is nothing else there.

The Navy does not have systems that fully possess the functionality described above, and it doesn’t even try to get anything close. From time to time, on the pages of specialized military publications, there are articles of middle-level officers or not very high-ranking officers of the relevant design bureaus or scientific research institutes, where thoughts are expressed about the need to bring opportunities to search for mines in accordance with the requirements of the time, but these appeals usually remain a voice crying the wilderness. It is possible that some kind of research and development work on these topics is sluggish, but they will never reach the “series”.

At the same time, the Russian industry has all the necessary potential to quickly remedy the situation. There are no technical problems in order to "grow together" maps of the seabed in areas that are supposed to be mined in the first place, protected computers, which would display information from the GUS. There is no technological impossibility to make a BEC with the HAS or a side-scan sonar (HBO) and to ensure the transfer of data from it to the command post, where they would be “superimposed” on the bottom maps. All this can be done, tested and brought to a series within about five years. Well, a maximum of seven years.

Moreover, the domestic minesweepers previously supplied abroad underwent modernization there, and it turned out that the old domestic MAS of the Ministry of Investigation completely “reach out” to a level more or less adequate to the threats even without replacement, simply by updating the peripheral equipment. This fact suggests that the same sea trawlers of the 1265 project, which are still the basis of domestic mine-sweeping forces, like the 266M, and the projects listed above, may well be upgraded in terms of hydroacoustics, get on board ACS terminals, and equipment conjugation of automated control systems and their own search hydroacoustic complexes.


The old man could still serve.


It will take some time and some money. The downside is only the age of 1265 minesweepers. Their wooden hulls are already seriously worn out, and for some ships, repair will be impossible. But it is still much better than zero.

The situation with the destruction of mines is no better than the search. As mentioned earlier, modern mines will not allow themselves to be wiped in the usual way - towing a trawler with a minesweeper over a minefield. It is no longer possible, a mine that reacts to a combination of acoustic, electromagnetic and hydrodynamic fields will explode even under a quiet and non-magnetic trawler, destroying the ship and killing the crew. Alas, there is no other means of the Russian Navy. The old KIA-1 and 2, and various experimental seekers and destroyers, have long been in the know. stories, somewhere there are no pictures left, more or less lively “Mayovka” the corrupt officials from the fleet nailed, the foreign equipment was under sanctions, and not that our Ministry of Defense wanted to buy. If tomorrow someone mines us exits from the bases, then they will have to be punched by ships, there will be no other options.


STIUM "Mayovka". It was better than nothing, but “nothing” won.


If the majority of fleets do not have the means of speed clearance, but there is at least a point means - STIUM, TNLA-seekers, destroyers - then we have nothing.

And, as in the case of mine exploration, we have all the necessary technologies and competencies to fix everything in about seven years.

We analyze demining tasks deeper.

It is necessary to separate the tasks of demining in general and the “breakthrough” of a minefield, for example, for emergency withdrawal from the impact of surface ships. The first, when it is a question of “having time on time” can be carried out on a limited scale (“breakdown of the corridor”), but must be carried out quickly.

In the old days, the breaker ship was the fastest way to break through a minefield. Such ships were specially hardened vessels capable of surviving a mine explosion. They were sent to the minefields so that they, moving along them, initiated the detonation of the mines along the course, “breaking through the corridor” in the minefield for the passage of normal ships and ships. Until now, there are several radio-controlled breakthroughs in the Navy ranks (eg 13000).

Time, however, does not stand still. Americans use helicopter-dragged trails instead of breakthrough ships, but there is a far more rational solution - a self-propelled trawl.
Currently, self-propelled trawls are manufactured by SAAB. Its product SAM-3 is the most advanced similar product in the world, and the most mass-produced. Even more correct to say - the only fully serial.

The trawl is an unmanned catamaran that is retained on the water thanks to floats of high-strength soft material filled with air.





The catamaran is regularly towing a combined acoustic-electromagnetic trawl. In most cases, SAM-3 is able to really simulate a surface ship and make the mines work.



The soft material of the floats is capable of absorbing a sufficiently powerful shock wave. In the photo below, for example, undermining a trawl explosive charge equivalent to 525-ti kilograms of TNT.



A very important point - the trawl is thrown through the air, and requires four people and a crane with a lifting capacity of 14 tons to assemble and launch into the water.
In case the mine situation is complex and a complete imitation of a large surface ship is required, the SAM-3 can tow non-self-propelled mass simulators of the TOMAS ship. These devices are large and heavy floats, with sources of electromagnetic waves that can imitate, with their volume and mass, the hydrodynamic effect of the ship’s hull on the mass of water along which it moves. At the same time, for the “fit” of the impact, it is possible to form a “train” of floats. Acoustic trawls are suspended under the necessary floats, and one can imitate the sounds from the engine room, the second noise from the steering wheel. In fact, this is the ideal means of breakthrough, a sort of super-breaker that can fool almost any modern mine.


TOMAS


After the self-propelled trawl has punched a corridor in a minefield, unmanned boats with hydroacoustic stations are sent behind it, the task of which is to detect unexploded mines in the “corridor”. The mined-like objects found can classify the TNLA, and destroy the STIUM - since all the mine defenders will explicitly explode when they pass over what was defined as a surface ship for all parameters, it will not be a problem for the STIUM to approach the mine and use a blasting charge against it.


Left past, right now. Now do not trawl.


And this is the future. And some have already arrived.


It is possible that mines, including defenders, will be adjusted to an underwater object. In this case, you have to massively use destroyers. On the other hand, a precise determination of the location of the mines and their classification will help to use such old means as a corded charge of explosives, and to finish off only those mines that survived with the help of destroyers.

Thus, for the Navy the following solution would be ideal.

Mine action units are being created at naval bases. They are armed with self-propelled trawls and physical field simulators, similar to the SAM-3, skidless boats with sonar stations, carrier boats TNPA and STIUM, as is done by the Americans, who do not build new minesweepers. Such a unit works according to the scheme described above - trawling of a water area by a self-propelled trawl, output following the trawl of the BEC group with search tools, using TNPA for classifying detected min-like objects, and using STIUM to destroy mines that did not blow up during trawling. As a backup, they should have disposable destroyers, but due to their high price, this will be the last resort. Which, thanks to the self-propelled trawl, will be needed in not very large, and therefore tolerable quantities.

Once again, there are all the technologies necessary for this in Russia, and with a competent formulation of the problem, such a scheme can be deployed in five to seven years. In the future, it is necessary to switch to continuous hydroacoustic observation, in order to completely eliminate the casting of self-transporting mines into the waters in the intervals between checks and combat swimmers.

At the same time, all minesweepers with significant residual resources need to be upgraded. It is necessary to equip them with different types of TNPA, equip them with new GAS with integration systems in the ACS, it may be worthwhile to equip these ships with diving equipment so that diving units can be used to neutralize mines from their side (one more , but from what our fleet refuses categorically).

We should also speak about the future of the ships of the project 12700 "Alexandrite".



These ships today have a huge displacement for the minesweeper - up to 890 tons. At the same time, a regular crewless boat - the French “Inspector” doesn’t fit into these ships and it’s not at all clear how to use it (the boat, frankly, unsuccessful with poor seaworthiness). Also what is called “failed” underwater vehicles being developed for it, moreover by the mass of parameters. Thus, the ship's full-time TNPA has a weight of about a ton, which in itself will not allow it to be used when searching for mines. And the fact that he has some rumored incredibly high price, and at the same time has to destroy the mines himself, simply takes him completely out of the brackets. However, the ship has a modern SAS and command center on board.

It is necessary to complete all the pledged ships of this project, but in a slightly different capacity. Admittedly, sending such a huge ship to the trawling is insane, with criminal insanity. Mines will be undermined by the “Alexandrites” simply because of their mass and the water they are moving, they “don't care” that these ships have a fiberglass hull. This ship should not be used as a minesweeper or even LEADER, but as new for us, but long ago introduced in the West into a separate class “mine hunter” - mine hunter, which under the conditions of the Navy can receive some kind of Russian traditionally “gray” name, for example, just "ship-seeker min." The main armament on board should be abandoned, but at the same time, on board the ship, unmanned boats to search for mines, remote-controlled NLA to classify them, are only normal, but not those idle and “golden” at the price prototypes that now, STIUMs, stock of disposable destroyers . It is worth exploring the issue of towing a lightweight combined (acoustics and electromagnetic fields) BEC trawl from a ship.
In the future, it is necessary to rethink the requirements for the anti-mine ship so that the replacement for existing minesweepers is fully consistent with the task at hand.

What other equipment is not enough to consider the mine threat question closed?

First, helicopters are still needed - trawl towers. The enemy can suddenly undertake a mining so large-scale that the standard anti-mine forces at the naval base simply will not be enough to quickly ensure that the ships reach the sea. Then it will be necessary to urgently transfer the reserve there. Helicopter parts may well claim to be such a reserve. They also provide the highest possible performance trawling, inaccessible to other means. At the same time, since we have our own anti-mine forces at the bases, such helicopters will have to be few. Today, the only realistic platform for such a helicopter are Mi-17 helicopters. The example of the old tugs - the Mi-14 - shows that such a helicopter will cope with the towing of the trawl, and it does not need amphibiousness.


View of the tail hatches of the Mi-14BT - towing trawls. Helicopter Navy of Bulgaria.


Secondly, the trawl towing helicopters must have lowered anti-mine ground. This will dramatically increase the search performance of anti-mine forces.

Thirdly, we need teams of specially trained divers, sappers.

Fourthly, it is necessary to conduct a scientific research work on determining the methods and means of searching for mines under the ice. If the clearance of such minefields can be carried out by various LAs and divers through artificial polynyas and ice holes in the ice cover, then there are a lot of questions regarding the detection and search of mines in such conditions. However, they are solvable.

Fourthly, it is necessary to place anti-mine weapons on warships. At a minimum, BEC with GAS, Stock of TNPA, STIUM and destroyers on ships is necessary. Apparently, it is necessary to have the cord charges, wind up with the same BEC. As part of the warhead-3 should be experts on the use of all this technology. If necessary, the actions of warheads-3 warships will be controlled by the commander in charge of mine action, or in other cases, the ship will ensure its passage through the minefields independently.

Fifth, it is necessary to integrate the command of both mine action and anti-submarine defense. A commonplace example - if there is an enemy submarine near the area cleaned of mines, then nothing will prevent it, determining the places where the mines have already been eliminated, guide the self-transporting mines there again. Even if continuous hydroacoustic monitoring is established on the defending side, and these mines are detected in time, this will at least mean a loss of time. If the factual re-mining of the “cleaned” zone remains unknown ...
PLO is vital both in its own right and in the context of mine action.

Sixthly, it is worth looking at supercavitating projectiles for conventional ship guns - most likely, they can be used for firing at anchor mines at a small depth.

Sixthly, it is necessary, after the Americans, to create laser means of detecting mines, both airborne and ship-based.

In general, in the Navy it is necessary to create a structure that will be responsible not for the underwater weaponas it is now, and for waging mine warfare in general, including both mine action and offensive mining.

It is not difficult to guess that all of the above in the foreseeable future will not be done.

Let us give a concrete example - a few years ago, one of the Russian design organizations came very close to creating such a desirable product for any fleet of the world, such as super-cheap STIUM. The reusable apparatus, capable of effectively searching for mines in most conditions, turned out to be so cheap that they could be painlessly sacrificed if necessary. The price was promised to be so low that it would be possible to have dozens of such devices on any warship — the budget would not be particularly burdensome. Of course, the functionality of the device was somewhat trimmed to reduce the price, but so let's say, uncritically. A number of subsystems have been brought to the metal.

Persons in whose power to give or not to give way to such works slammed the project even faster than at the time "Mayovka". The author will not make it difficult to give the code OCD and contacts to officials if they are interested in the issue. However, the author is confident that officials will not be interested in this issue.

It is worth noting that the collapse of anti-mine forces in the Navy takes place in conditions when, firstly, the international situation around the Russian Federation worsens, and secondly, when the risks of being hit at sea are several times higher than on land, and thirdly, when our enemy is the US , already has experience in anonymous terrorist mine warfare (Nicaragua) and setting its vassal states on our country (Georgia in the year 2008).

At the same time, the vassals have quite a mine and the means of their delivery.

Take at least Poland. All its landing ships of the Lublin class in the West are classified as “landing ship minelayer”. On the one hand, any tank landing ship is a minelayer, on the other hand, the Poles are not holding them for landing operations. These ships - first barriers, then landing ships. If we recall the Great Patriotic War, then the enemy began to mine the Baltic Sea before inflicting the first military strike on the territory of the USSR, on the night from 21 to 22 June. The lesson we seem to have forgotten.

Neutrals also give reason to think. For example, neutral Finland seems to be, within the framework of military cooperation within the EU, spying on the movements of the Baltic Fleet ships. Nothing special, they are simply spying on the mine layers of the Hamienmaa. Their future Pohjanmaa class corvettes regularly have compartments for placing mines and guides for dumping them into the water. Now minzagi - the largest Finnish ships. The Finns have the most specialized barriers in the world. However, while the Finns are mostly for neutrality, but to change this attitude is the business of one well-conducted provocation. In provocation, the United States and the British know how, when they want. The main thing is to choose the right moment.

The apogee of the development of modern mine layers gives us South Korea. Her new minelayer Nampo (which is the ancestor of the new class of ships) carries 500 mines, and has eight guides for dumping them astern. This is arguably the most powerful minzag in history.



Nampo-class, aka MLS-II class, aka Hyundai HMD-4000


Again, on the one hand, South Korea hardly sees Russia as its opponent. Now. But let's not forget that they are American allies, and allies, historically showing their ability to self-sacrifice for the sake of their American masters. Yes, the DPRK, China and Japan are among them far more likely enemies than we are. But intentions change quickly, and opportunities slowly.

Against this background, even the refusal of the Americans to set up mines (temporary) from submarines and the withdrawal of the “Kaptorov” from the combat strength (perhaps also) somehow does not please them. After all, the US, NATO and its allies still have hundreds of thousands of mines.

And we are left with only prehistoric towed trawls and unpleasantly shrill military propaganda, not supported by real military force.

One can only hope that we will not try for strength.
188 comments
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  1. -14
    13 February 2019 05: 07
    It sounds awful, but is it really critical in a situation where a nuclear war may start at any moment? No, I understand that such a dirty trick can be done to us once or twice (to mine ports), but everything is envious of us - we will be so angry and inform our enemies "if our warship will accidentally take off into the air - we will immediately declare this to be an attack and inflict retaliatory nuclear strike and we SHIT what you think and how will you lie later that it was not you "! good Otherwise, forgiveness, we will tire as Khmeikim is now with UAV attacks negative
    1. +14
      13 February 2019 05: 27
      nuclear strike on, for example, Finland, Poland or Estonia? How many are there from Narva to Ivangorod? Yes, in a local conflict ours will not deliver a nuclear strike. Even if the Japanese land on the Kuril Islands, they won’t do it. Forget it
      1. -11
        13 February 2019 05: 34
        In this case, you can now wrap yourself in a sheet and train to raise your hands up am .Non-use of nuclear weapons this is-the wet ball full-time Americans !! negative This is what they are trying to impose on us - a competition in conventional weapons, where they have at least a numerical superiority in "meat" which is not a pity, scoundrels, Baltic extinctions, rodents, Sumerians, and even a couple of million idiots gather in yavrope. Therefore, 1) Russia inflicts a nuclear strike on ANY aggression, be it even Monaco (yes, neighboring France will suffer an order of magnitude more there) 2) Russia will be destroyed, the population will be exterminated. Choose what you like best, no, I do not require you to make a "decision of the commander-in-chief", it is your personal decision, how to vote later, which meetings to go to and even who to beat in a drunken dispute. Forgive me, but now we are all "at war" although it is still informational, that is, it is "behind the head".
        1. +8
          13 February 2019 05: 58
          Pairs of millions of idiots will not be enough to destroy Russia and the population. And the war will be waged by conventional weapons. Even if they try to squeeze or squeeze Kaliningrad, Sakhalin or the Far East, neither Putin nor Shoigu will press a button (neither the USSR nor the USA China India England Israel Pakistan Korea did this, preferring to lose tens and hundreds of thousands of soldiers)
          1. -22
            13 February 2019 06: 31
            Well, either accept the death of you and your family, or "it's time to blame." fool ... Although in reality it is enough to be the commander of the nuclear submarine "we will bang, we will bang - the whole world is in dust". good And yes - unlike Hollywood, there is NO system of cancellation or self-destruction on our rockets.
            PySy: In fact, I consider it a strategic mistake not to use nuclear weapons against Georgia, then they set themselves up with a 100% guarantee - by attacking and killing our soldiers !!! This is what they declare War for, which Medvedev actually did then, but the subsequent burdensomeness crap everything. Instead of a couple of jeeps with a radio device, it was necessary to demonstrate to the whole World - to incinerate Georgia, despite the subsequent radioactive fallout on our territory. The enemy, if he is in London or the VoshObkom, must be 100% sure that a nuclear bomb will fly at him personally on "any sneeze towards Russia." good
            1. +13
              13 February 2019 06: 52
              PySy: Actually, I consider it a strategic mistake not to use nuclear weapons against Georgia, then they framed themselves with a 100% guarantee - by attacking and killing our soldiers !!!

              belay Fuck ... with a baton on a mosquito on his forehead.
              1. +19
                13 February 2019 07: 24
                Orderlies must be called
                1. -3
                  13 February 2019 09: 03
                  No, he writes everything correctly. Only tactical nuclear weapons can allow not to switch to the "tanks instead of kindergartens" mode
                  Or do you like another option, "Yeltsin II" and Russia's complete absence of its own interests?
                  Although we cannot do without "tanks instead of kindergartens" in this version, "to resist the Chinese threat" as push meat will not come cheap either
                  1. -13
                    13 February 2019 09: 27
                    Another article in the series "Katz offers to surrender or give me some money, otherwise it will be like June 21, 1941" laughing

                    An hour after the start of massive mining of the Gulf of Finland, Finland will turn into Karelia, the remnants of the Finns will turn into Karelia, and the bay will accordingly become Karelian.
                    1. +11
                      13 February 2019 09: 37
                      Yeah, and everything will be done in one regiment of the Airborne Forces - hurray, comrades!
                      1. +1
                        13 February 2019 10: 05
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Yeah, and everything will be done in one regiment of the Airborne Forces - hurray, comrades!

                        Anyone who is familiar with what happened then will tell you that it was really possible to do everything normally with one regiment of the airborne forces.
                        Pasha Mercedes was a thief, not a fool.
                      2. +6
                        13 February 2019 11: 02
                        For two hours (s).

                        Looks like a subject young, do not remember how this ended in the past.
                      3. -4
                        13 February 2019 11: 12
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        For two hours (s).
                        Looks like a subject young, do not remember how this ended in the past.

                        In just two hours ... Nothing complicated. The militants organized themselves much later, towards the end of December.
                        Actually, this very "victorious march of the Avturkhanovites" became the reason for such self-organization. But the FSB decided that they were the smartest ...
                      4. -5
                        13 February 2019 16: 16
                        For minusers.

                        Some may not know, but "Mercedes" said this at a very definite moment, after the failure of the Avturkhanovskys' march to Grozny in November 1994. At that time, everything could really be solved quickly and with one parachute regiment.

                        It's just that liberal journalists have always tried to "omit" the time when this phrase was uttered. And as I see, they managed to deceive many of them 8)))
                      5. +3
                        13 February 2019 20: 47
                        Lopatov Given the situation in Chechnya, there could be no question of any regiment. Pashka-Mercedes, (let him excuse the deceased for such a thing) was Yeltsin's brother-in-law and licked all the way to please Yeltsin and his glory. He doesn't care about anything except to shield Yeltsin and his own skin at the same time, because through the efforts of Yeltsin, the unsightly major general became immediately an army general and the Minister of the Ministry of Defense ... Chechnya, there was a pre-prepared mine, - scams with bank advice notes that were not suppressed for a long time, and so on in the military warehouses left behind ... This is a confirmation of this ... The chatter "about one regiment of the Airborne Forces" was a bluff to the public, than a lot of blood turned around later ..
                      6. -3
                        13 February 2019 20: 59
                        Quote: Vladimir 5
                        Lopatov In that situation in Chechnya, there was no question of any one regiment.

                        Once again, it was easy. The militants have not yet organized, there has been no unity. The regiment would in fact have to fight only with a few gangs, while the leadership of "Ichkeria" led by Dudayev would have been captured. Nothing too complicated.
                        Quote: Vladimir 5
                        what turned into a lot of blood later ..

                        Big blood and later turned out to be completely different. Insistent unwillingness to turn everything into war. As a result, it came to senility, for example, Rokhlin was dryuch for pulling artillery with him.

                        But in general, to make it clear, the paratrooper regiment is one thing, and three or four combined paratrooper battalions is another. And do not confuse them.
                      7. +2
                        13 February 2019 21: 14
                        They entered and settled down. and then what about the gangs., and they would only have hardened by the intervention of the military and organized faster. fully supported by the population against the "interventionists" ...... You do not understand the political essence, the protest potential was already created huge and the guerrilla war gave the same results at that time ... It was necessary to work here in advance, not to leave warehouses, not to withdraw , and to bring in the troops of the explosives and so on ... Where the strategists were looking, they looked into the pocket of the United States with different bearers and gaidars and Mercedes plows ... After all, Yeltsin handed over everything, like Gorbachev ...
                      8. -2
                        13 February 2019 21: 18
                        Quote: Vladimir 5
                        Here we entered, settled down

                        Where are "located" ???
                        I apologize, do you consider that nonsense that happened on New Year's when you "entered, settled down" is the normal and only correct option?
                      9. 0
                        13 February 2019 21: 40
                        Shovels ... To drive in the mountains, and for whom, and with what, - they collected a thread from the forest ... Something you are not friends with at that time realities.
                      10. 0
                        14 February 2019 17: 13
                        Quote: Vladimir 5
                        Here they entered, settled down. and then with the gangs., and they would only be hardened by the intervention of the military and organized faster.

                        EMNIP, at that time the bulk of the pro-Dudayev militants were drawn to Grozny - to confront the Avturkhanovites. There they would be covered.
                        And then ... then there were two options. Or cleansing and maintaining the regime exclusively by forces happy troops and the army, or building a system of checks and balances based on legal gangs local field commanders (so to speak, translation of the conflict into the mainstream of the Chechen dialogue) As in the second Chechen - Yamadayevites and Kadyrovtsy.
                      11. 0
                        14 February 2019 17: 58
                        Theoretically, you are right, you could have done so ... Only whoever would have done this and given permission, because President B. Yeltsin, he, panimash, needed to portray a democrat - take freedom as much as you can, - these are his words to everyone, including the Chechens ... And Pashka-Mercedes loudly, - yes, all of them I am one regiment of the Airborne Forces ... such were the leaders, and such a strategy. It was possible to make out the USSR and the USSR into the Union of Sovereign Countries, but it really could be done, Gorbachev and Yeltsin brought down the USSR according to American patterns, and all together to the complete defeat of Russia ...
                      12. +1
                        14 February 2019 19: 10
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        the bulk of the pro-Dudayev militants pulled in to Grozny


                        It turns out that the "bulk" has already been organized.

                        How to make a "one airborne regiment" technically? Let's start with the first point ("to begin with, we had no cartridges"), for a start there were no topographic maps of Grozny. Topographic maps of their territory were considered a military secret and were safely hidden. How can you plan without topographic maps if you only know the general direction? Here you go straight along this street, there you will see a palace at the end. And if they go on the wrong street, how then? And how to plant? You can't put the Mi-8 on the roof. The Americans in Mogadishu used the smaller, high-speed and silent Defenders and Black Hawks helicopters and launched special forces on ropes. They didn’t have any problems with maps, they had a drone filming everything, the commander of the operation could see the position of each soldier live. And then, as you remember, one fell off this rope and the whole operation went wrong at once. The Russian paratrooper is not trained to get off the helicopter by rope. To throw off the Il-76 on the roofs of houses by parachute? Or to drop them off into an open field and then let them gather for half a day and move to Grozny on foot? So it's faster to drive from the border to the BMD anyway. Actually, this option was implemented. Only much better. It was not conscript paratroopers who were advancing, but under the guise of "Avturkhanovtsy" officers and contract soldiers - elite tankmen and motorized riflemen from the Kantemirovsk division. And not on the BMD, but on normal tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. Grachev's plan would have worked if the main forces of the Chechens did not offer resistance. Nobody expected resistance. In May and August 1945, the Soviet army demonstrated such power that, until December 1994, no one had ever dared to openly oppose it. And after Chechnya, no one took a chance either. Therefore, he was not expected.
                  2. +5
                    13 February 2019 09: 37
                    Mushrooms instead of kindergartens I like even less
                    1. -1
                      13 February 2019 10: 06
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      Mushrooms instead of kindergartens I like even less

                      ?
                      Why didn’t you please all these mushrooms with boletus?
                      1. +7
                        13 February 2019 11: 03
                        He was not pleased with other mushrooms, which some citizens use in the comments.
                      2. -3
                        13 February 2019 11: 06
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        He was not pleased with other mushrooms, which some citizens use in the comments.

                        When can’t they fight the arguments and start to fight the opponent’s personality? There is such a thing, I noticed.
                      3. +4
                        13 February 2019 12: 39
                        No, I meant low power tactical mushrooms.
                      4. -3
                        13 February 2019 16: 10
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        No, I meant low power tactical mushrooms.

                        That is, still offer to give up.
                        Reasonable. Surrender to the Americans and die of Chinese tacts. ammunition. This is correct, it is liberal-democratic and universal.

                        After all, there is nothing more humane than to sacrifice yourself for the interests of the United States ...
                      5. +2
                        13 February 2019 16: 36
                        Nowhere have I ever offered anyone to give up, do not try to ascribe to me my thoughts.
                        But, being in my right mind and solid memory, I can say the following: our great generals will prefer territorial losses to nuclear war
                      6. -6
                        13 February 2019 16: 43
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Nowhere have I ever offered anyone to give up, do not try to ascribe to me my thoughts.

                        Ah, you’re just against it.
                        And against the use of tactics of nuclear weapons, and against creating adequate ground forces to cope without tact. Nuclear weapons. And against fighting for their interests to the end, and against giving a damn about these interests and giving up ...

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        I can say the following: our great generals will prefer territorial losses to nuclear war

                        That is, you can ascribe to others their thoughts?


                        I’m interested in this: you generally realize that any of our potential major opponents do not give a damn about the pieces of the territory, even if they start a war, it’s only to put the authorities acting in its interests to steer the country.
                      7. +3
                        13 February 2019 17: 02
                        In order to set up a puppet government in Moscow, they do not need a nuclear war. Local yes, economic is even better.
                        You there have attributed to me a whole paragraph of your thoughts. And I just state the facts: no one started a nuclear conflict, no matter what the loss of human economic territorial. This power will not start either. Not because there are no eggs, out of philanthropy or self-preservation - it’s more pragmatic. Swallow any defeat, loss, humiliation.
                      8. -4
                        13 February 2019 17: 12
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        And I just state the facts: no one started a nuclear conflict, no matter what the loss of human economic territorial.

                        E ..... Where are the facts? This is only your speculation.
                        For the "facts" the fighting itself is necessary against "territorial, human and economic". And the current authorities do not have such. Rather, on the contrary, territorial acquisitions.

                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Swallow any defeat, loss, humiliation.

                        Attribute your own thoughts to others again?
                        Indeed, both South Ossetia and the Crimea refute your postulate. It was deeply unpragmatic. And Syria, even more so.
                      9. +2
                        13 February 2019 17: 20
                        Nobody started a nuclear war - a fact?
                        but what thoughts - we won’t buy tomatoes, then we’ll make it up. Putin is a pragmatist, not a suicide
                      10. -6
                        13 February 2019 18: 18
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Nobody started a nuclear war - a fact?

                        And this indicates that Putin will not apply tact. Damn, and some still make fun of female logic.
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Putin is a pragmatist, not a suicide

                        Exactly! Therefore, he will not want to repeat the fate of the losers.
                      11. +5
                        13 February 2019 11: 23
                        I meant the "mushrooms" of nuclear explosions ...
                      12. -5
                        13 February 2019 16: 11
                        Well, well, you are all such smart "one me" here, well let's look at the situation from the military side: the enemy has a "terrible" weapon, but he does NOT use it for any dangers !! we shoot down planes for him - does not use, we sink a submarine for him - does not use, we kill his soldiers (peacekeepers) - and again does not use; Well, let's mine his ports - after all, they will NOT use the "terrible weapon" again !! Remember the "salt theory" - WHERE or WHEN does each of you personally consider the use of nuclear weapons by Russia "worthy"?
                        I advise you to read "hot summer 2015" and ask yourself a question - "and if such an attack on Kaliningrad happened, in reality, what should and could be done?" Yes, yes, we are all amateurs here, not officers of the General Staff, or even less the President, but we do not make a decision, only - "express our private opinion" (which does not coincide with the opinion of the editorial board laughing good ).
                        For the "compassionate" - to erase Georgia with a "nuclear eraser" from the world map or Turkey, it was necessary not for "bloody cruelty", but for "showing those who make decisions THERE that we are not joking and we do not have rusty missiles."
            2. +10
              13 February 2019 07: 59
              Quote: Mih1974
              In fact, I consider it a strategic mistake not to use nuclear weapons against Georgia, then they framed themselves with an 100% guarantee - by attacking and killing our soldiers !!! It is for this that they declare war, which Medvedev actually did then, but the subsequent burdensomeness crap everything.

              Interestingly, the head doctor knows that you are sitting at his computer. And don’t worry, everything is under control. soldier and they’ll use nuclear weapons, and they’ll give you a separate chamber wassat .
              1. -5
                13 February 2019 16: 30
                HA HA, do you consider yourself "cooler than Pyatrosyan"? Personally, I am not satisfied with the version expressed by Putin "they will just die and we are in Paradise" in the original concept. Personally, I am interested in "let the whole world burn, if only Russia and the Russians live happily." good
                I do not care if we, Russia, Russians are "not loved", for me the main thing is that they FEARED, yes, yes, just like that, in big letters. And that they would not be afraid that we will defeat them like Napoleon or Hitler, but that we will do with the People later am good am , what exactly the fear of complete extermination of any aggressor would stop even from blurting out "let's attack Russia." And since we have a weapon to translate this action into reality, why should we Russians again “pay” millions of lives to stop the next World Master?
                My personal opinion is that after all that inhuman (from my point of view, the West does not think so anymore), the Germans did it, yes, the Germans, and even if these did not hide behind "they were fascists", the USSR was obliged to exterminate ALL Germans whom it could reach , and his part of the occupied fascist had to be deprived am .
                Whoever says a word about "this is inhuman" look -

                and this is "good fin" for you

                again "civilized" Germans


                but this is my "favorite"

                am Well, who's brave to blather "they are not like that"? these "fixes near our borders already NOW !!
                [media = http: //anna-news.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ Bundeswehr-in-Latvia.jpg]
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. -3
                    13 February 2019 17: 27
                    Panfilov’s did not stop the German tanks at 10, Kosmodemyanskaya - went up to the podium am ?
                    A simple thought does not reach you that far from all the atrocities of the Nazis there was even just someone to photograph, but most of them were so scary that they could not even be shown by other people's photos. Is this - canceling the atrocities of the Nazis or I lied by putting another photo?
                    1. +1
                      13 February 2019 17: 47
                      Why lie?
                      1. -5
                        13 February 2019 17: 53
                        You read carefully - there are "textual" descriptions of atrocities, many I even cannot cite because I literally tears apart from anger and tears blur my eyes, but there is no photo and what - I will write a text and for the majority it will be "just letters". the photo, albeit someone else's, but somehow describes the fascist atrocities. The point is what has been done, but in HOW, in the absence of compassion and humanity among the geeks, in "these are not people" for this is the Reason, but the crimes are already the Consequence of this. I also teach on the extermination of the Germans - they do not consider us, Russians (well, who is nicer than the Russians) equal, or at least Human. (if they get the chance) and surpass even more.
            3. -5
              13 February 2019 08: 50
              by the way I support, a limited nuclear strike would have discouraged provocations, there would have been no radioactive fallout, there are deep gorges, and nuclear weapons are small. Some increased radiation in the Black Sea would dissolve in a month, although I was just in that time in Abkhazia in the Kodori Valley in the village of Kamany, there is a very deserted area, because the Abkhazians expelled all the Svann for a long time ago
              1. +5
                13 February 2019 17: 17
                Calm only calm!
            4. AUL
              +9
              13 February 2019 09: 25
              Quote: Mih1974
              it was necessary for the whole World to incinerate Georgia, despite the subsequent radioactive fallout in our territory.

              What a blessing that you, Mikhail, are not our Commander-in-Chief! And indeed, it seems that you have nothing to do with the army.
              1. -7
                13 February 2019 16: 36
                I just gave a photo of that repetition of which I DO NOT want under any circumstances, and if for this it is necessary to exterminate ALL "willing" - then so be it. If someone is weak to take this Evil and Sin upon himself - no problem, I will. angry
            5. +1
              13 February 2019 20: 36
              Quote: Mih1974
              personally a nuclear bomb will fly into him


              The Americans have the ability to physically destroy Putin with their nuclear weapons; Russians do not kill Trump.
      2. +4
        13 February 2019 14: 08
        Quote: Tlauicol
        Even if the Japanese land on the Kuril Islands, they won’t do it. Forget it

        I agree, nuclear war has nothing to do with it. The author correctly noted that if there is a military provocation against Russia, then most likely it will be a provocation at sea. As for the mine war, then this is generally for them Eldorado, Klondike! This is not an open collision of warships. And so, imagine, let's say our destroyer is blown up on the exposed "someone" (!!!) mine. Our response? To whom to present and where to deliver a nuclear strike? request
        1. -9
          13 February 2019 16: 38
          Immediately hit the Louse am , it is advisable to voice this in advance, and these "alternative sexually oriented" let them all themselves discourage us from attacking. good
        2. +2
          13 February 2019 21: 14
          + + +
          sensible article.
          I hope that it’s not only the sofas that we will familiarize ourselves with, it would be nice to convey this to people with large embroidered crabs.
        3. 0
          25 July 2020 10: 33
          Well, yes, you never know in the Baltic mines left from the war, go-prove
    2. +9
      13 February 2019 07: 55
      Well, if it starts as a non-nuclear, non-nuclear with probability 99% and will pass. If realistic to look at things.
      1. 0
        13 February 2019 09: 36
        It will start not nuclear. But for some reason I’m sure that it will end with a total exchange of nuclear arsenals. Because there will be nothing left for the losing side ...
        1. +3
          13 February 2019 11: 03
          There may be different options.
        2. -1
          13 February 2019 16: 42
          Tell this to General Zolotov, who has a grandson in London, many others who have children and grandchildren THERE, there are villas and "rakes" in the same place. By the way, where is the youngest (if I don't confuse with the eldest) daughter of our commander in chief, not in Holland by chance? Is he really like this "once and will wave his sword" for the sake of some "concessions" especially if "they offer an honorable surrender and a pension on a personal Canary island"?
          1. 0
            14 February 2019 17: 32
            Quote: Mih1974
            Tell this to General Zolotov, who has a grandson in London, many others who have children and grandchildren THERE, there are villas and "rakes" in the same place.

            There is one subtle point here: if, nevertheless, a decision on war is made, then no villas and accounts play any role. They are not there - that's it, after the hour "H" they have moved to another universe. And you can return them back only after victory.
            Quote: Mih1974
            Is he really like this "once and wave the sword" for the sake of some "concessions" especially if "they offer an honorable surrender and a pension on a personal Canary island"?

            Yeah ... honorary surrender followed by trial. smile
            That's all, the option to surrender will not work anymore - if it came to war, then the fate of Saddam or Muammar awaits the capitulators. And they are well aware of this.
            1. +1
              14 February 2019 19: 44
              Nothing like this,
              then capitulators are waiting for the fate of Saddam or Muammar
              , forgive me, but WHAT is the fate of those who sold Hussein or Gaddafi - they got "fat" positions or ransom and dumped !! am
              That is, something like this - "Russia attacks the free Baltic states and kills a bunch of ESSestonians", such headlines are published by the Western media and perhaps even "vidosik will be filmed", no one will care that it will be a "poured out tube of Powell" and everything will be a lie, after that NATO strikes at our waxes in Kaliningrad and attacks on the ground, throwing scoundrels, ukrov and all kinds of trash to the slaughter, even though the same terrorists from Syria will be shaved and dressed in uniforms (business that). The fact that we will beat a bunch of them there is even wonderful, in the event of our retaliatory strike against podlyakia and other countries - even better, there will be a "picture of the atrocities of the bloody tyrant Putin" good am ... After that, the West "comes out" to people like Zolotov with a proposal to act according to THEIR plan to overthrow the "bloody announcer" and keep everything that they have abroad "otherwise we will write you down as accomplices of the bloody tyrant, you were driving on an anal barrel." Further, in different ways, a cruise missile attack can "push" air defense (without nuclear weapons) in places where Putin and his "gang" will physically be (as it was in Baghdad, etc.), which is quite realizable. At the same time, from every iron and THERE and HERE there will be a screech "this is a bloody tyrant, we do not equate him with the People of Russia, do not bother us to overthrow the tyrant." am
              We have no idea how many of those who are in power in hour X will not defect as in their time from Khuseinich or Assad, therefore from a military point of view we cannot stop this without nuclear weapons (given the collapse from the inside), but the fact that such an order even Putin will give - I'm not at all sure. Actually, as a surrender, he may be offered to "die on camera", that is, they will show a video of who "died" of his double (everything will be blurred and not recognizable), and he, under someone else's guise, leaves to live even in the USA, at least somewhere else. It is quite such a lure against the background of the "mutual nuclear destruction" option. am
              Think calmly over my words, but personally, in such a situation, would you "press the button" and essentially kill your daughters and future grandchildren?
              PySy: I will answer for myself -I would click, but I have only the Cat from the heirs laughing still die, at least with a twinkle. good
    3. +8
      13 February 2019 09: 21
      "... we will immediately declare it an attack and deliver a nuclear retaliatory strike and we SHOULD ..."

      Who are these warlike "We"? And how will this "We" deliver a nuclear strike, "We" have nuclei?
  2. -12
    13 February 2019 06: 48
    It seems that the article was written by the commander of the mine defense of the country before discussing the budget. ))) It is not clear why the fleet is floating and not being blown up by mines.
    1. +9
      13 February 2019 07: 56
      What's not clear? We do not fight at sea with anyone as soon as - so immediately. And on a massive scale.
      1. -3
        13 February 2019 09: 09
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        We do not fight at sea with anyone

        Bingo!
        Finally, a good idea!
        It remains to take the next step and recognize that a conflict at sea is extremely unlikely. Unlike land conflict
        1. +1
          13 February 2019 09: 50
          Unlike land conflict

          With whom?
          1. +2
            13 February 2019 09: 56
            Quote: Senior Sailor
            With whom?

            It is not always possible to ask the question "with whom". Sometimes - "where"
            Armed conflicts with the participation of Russia in eastern Ukraine, in the Crimea, in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, in Karabakh are likely. Conflicts in Central Asia are very likely. The probability of Russia's participation in border conflicts on the borders of the Central Asian republics with Afghanistan is almost equal to one.
            1. 0
              13 February 2019 11: 10
              The troops that put Ukraine in the cancer pose in eastern Ukraine were literally equal in number to a couple of divisions, and all of them were not used at the same time, they did not have all the standard weapons, they acted without the help of aviation, against the many times outnumbering enemy, and at the same time ensured the ratio of losses with "opponents" equal to "1: several hundred". Let's say where my friends fought it was "by eye" 1: 500-1: 700.
              No one among the soldiers really counted, but intelligence didn’t tell anyone the exact numbers.

              In such conditions, anxiety over the combat capability of the army in the regions you listed looks strange.

              If it’s still not clear (I’m sure that you’ll never understand anything, so I’m specifying) then evaluate the participation of the army in Syria - this is a "model" war, almost all local wars in the future that we will start ourselves will be something like this.

              And who are not themselves, will not be on land.
              1. +4
                13 February 2019 11: 20
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                The troops who put in the pose of cancer Ukraine

                ?
                Believe less agitprop. If anyone put the army of Ukraine with cancer, it is they themselves. Own stupidity, drunkenness and indiscipline.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                In such conditions, anxiety over the combat capability of the army in the regions you listed looks strange.

                We will throw our hats ...

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                If it’s still incomprehensible (I’m sure that you’ll never understand anything, that's why I’ll clarify) then evaluate the participation of the army in Syria

                Appreciate. Failure. As the direct participant said, "the impression is that they didn't just forget about the second Chechen, they tried to forget."
                One destruction of the hospital is worth ...

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                And who are not themselves, will not be on land.

                Naturally. On the surface of the moon, it is more realistic.
                1. +2
                  13 February 2019 13: 36
                  Believe less agitprop. If anyone put the army of Ukraine with cancer, it is they themselves. Own stupidity, drunkenness and indiscipline.


                  Once again I explain, my colleagues-colleagues fought there. Why do I need an agitprop? Agitprop says that we had no troops there.

                  Appreciate. Failure. As the direct participant said, "the impression is that they didn't just forget about the second Chechen, they tried to forget."


                  You did not understand. Who does the main work in Syria from our side? Groundworkers?
                  1. +3
                    13 February 2019 15: 47
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Once again I explain, my friends and colleagues fought there. Why do I need propaganda?

                    Good question. Why do you need agitprop?

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    You did not understand. Who is doing the main work on our side in Syria?

                    What's the difference? Everyone was screwed up there, from pilots to doctors. All showed the result "we do not learn anything"
                2. +2
                  14 February 2019 17: 48
                  Quote: Spade
                  As the direct participant said, "the impression is that they didn't just forget about the second Chechen, they tried to forget."

                  Judging by 08.08.08, they tried to forget the second Chechen one even earlier. We were just very lucky that the Georgians were the enemy at that time. If the Chechens were in their place, in the situation in which the commander of the 58 was wounded, the entire convoy would be crushed.
              2. +1
                13 February 2019 13: 41
                "by eye" 1: 500-1: 700
                Are you sorry for the zeros? Open your "eyes" wider, let it be 1: 5000 - 7000, why pity them?
                1. +1
                  13 February 2019 14: 18
                  Remember the shelling of a customs office? 1: 700 showed a battalion, a company that went to look for a mortar (and found) in border battles in the summer and autumn of 2014.
                  If it were not for one of the company officers who had made a mistake, we would have had zero. On the other side there is a fresh cemetery, and not a small one if everyone puts it together.

                  Given the fact that the main means of rest dill was 152-mm artillery, nothing surprising. It's amazing how you can fall into the same trap month after month, but in the end it’s just Ukrainians, you shouldn’t have expected much from them ...

                  By the way, yes, your opinion is very valuable to us. laughing
                  1. +3
                    13 February 2019 14: 36
                    Yes, understandably, month after month 1: 5000 - 7000, and so on for five years. Total 9 125 000. Now it’s clear where the population of Ukraine goes. Maybe you should use a larger caliber?
                    1. 0
                      13 February 2019 21: 35
                      Do not jerk. Already in 2015 in Dnipro, unidentified people were buried with numbers from 8000 and uphill. And there were still identified, if that.

                      And how many people we fought, I know, and personally know many.
                      1. +2
                        13 February 2019 21: 43
                        Yes, I don’t jerk, I react to your information. Given the circle of your acquaintances, can you name the losses on both sides?
                      2. 0
                        14 February 2019 08: 48
                        With our three. Specifically in that battalion.

                        For four months.

                        One of the company, confronting the Ukrainian armored group, was confused, and instead of taking off, started a fire battle, lost three, and also shot back by mistake on the right-flank company of neighbors.

                        More of this was not.

                        A lot of yours were mowed there, the fact is that it was along the border, when Ukrainian wedges were chopped off and artillery was working at full capacity across the border.

                        Therefore, having pressed on the Ukrainians, ours jerked away from them and called art.fire on them. And the artillerymen didn’t use any shells, especially my friend was shocked by cluster munitions with volume-detonating submunitions.

                        When they returned to fix the result of the blow, even the corpses really could not count, there were separate fragments of bodies, some skeletons stuck in the hatches and other horror. And so four months in a row, a couple of times a week, sometimes more often.

                        As if no one counted the Ukrainians, but by sight there was "somewhere a regiment in the end." They counted not by people but by destroyed equipment, "by eye". No one climbed inside, did not reach the charred bodies, did not spread their arms, legs, skulls together.

                        To realize that having encountered the Russians it was impossible to start a fight with them for four months, they could not, and this trash lasted almost the whole trip.

                        Well, plus they had ambushes on the columns, ambushes on ukrovoens, who were rolling back from under artillery fire, etc., this was also enough and you can guess what results they led to.

                        I don’t know the losses during the whole war, it’s a state secret, but taking into account the fact that in our millionaire by the end of 2015 there were ten dead (from the Armed Forces, not from the militia), I don’t think there was anything terrible there. Militias certainly lost more, at times, but they are not the army. Then at least she wasn’t.
                      3. +1
                        14 February 2019 10: 00
                        Thanks for the answer, of course, but the information, let's say, is not unique.
                      4. 0
                        14 February 2019 14: 59
                        And I do not claim to be unique.
                  2. mvg
                    +1
                    14 February 2019 13: 11
                    but in the end it's just Ukrainians

                    These Ukrainians also have a Soviet military education and Soviet military equipment. Why then such a difference in class? And, by the way, they have been fighting for several years. About 300 thousand people passed through the ATO. And you forces of two divisions gathered 40 million to deliver the country "cancer". It looks like a hat.
                    1. 0
                      14 February 2019 15: 00
                      There are results of battles on earth. And they are unique. And Russia has long fought against Soviet methods.
        2. +1
          13 February 2019 11: 04
          You at least pour into the eyes, all God's dew. Well, who can attack Russia by land? !!!
          1. 0
            13 February 2019 11: 20
            And who is at sea ???
          2. +4
            13 February 2019 11: 26
            Well, who can attack Russia by land? !!!

            China. Only China can attack Russia, and it will succeed in this. "Minus" I did not give you ...
            1. +1
              13 February 2019 11: 54
              It is now impossible politically. And for a long time to be impossible.
              1. +6
                13 February 2019 11: 58
                And I didn’t say that this is possible precisely now. They will not miss their own. Well, something, but these guys know how to wait ...
                1. +1
                  13 February 2019 12: 00
                  Let's just say - until the risk of conflict with the United States is reduced to zero. And to put it mildly, not soon. And not the fact that there will be.

                  Note that a strong fleet is capable of blocking China from the sea, "taking" the issue of showdowns with China beyond the land theater of operations.
                  1. +7
                    13 February 2019 12: 13
                    I note a strong fleet is able to block China from the sea

                    Alas, this is not about us. We have nothing to block them, thank Putin and his friends.
                    Let's just say - until the risk of conflict with the United States is reduced to zero. And to put it mildly, not soon. And not the fact that there will be.

                    Some discerning and spiritually-minded elders have already spoken out about this ...
                    1. +2
                      13 February 2019 12: 15
                      Alas, this is not about us. We have nothing to block them, thank Putin and his friends.


                      There is an opinion that this is not about Putin, he simply missed this direction - there was a lot of money for the fleet from 2009 to 2017! But with these injections, he "fell".

                      Let's see what will now be rumored to be on the way sweeping frames. If only the GSH infantry is not aggravated still more, and they have such a desire.
                    2. +1
                      13 February 2019 12: 33
                      The enemy can suddenly undertake mining so large-scale that full-time mine action forces at a naval base are simply not enough to quickly ensure that ships enter the sea.

                      Quote: Brylevsky
                      We have nothing to block them

                      The Japanese developed the ideas of K.E. Tsiolkovsky, creating autonomous buoys on which electricity is generated from sea waves. They are small enough, equipped with batteries for energy storage, GPS, satellite communications, can also be equipped with thrusters to hold in a given square without minrep. Similar low-cost autonomous buoys (additionally equipped with sonar-GAS and motion sensors) can be used by border guards for early warning of the start of mining and mine control of exits from ports. And for areas with low waves and severe ice conditions, you can use the recently tested autonomous self-propelled underwater gliders with ASG, the movement of which is provided by periodic purging of ballast tanks, leading to ascent-immersion. (Https://lenta.ru/news/2019/02/ 11 / seashadow /) Battery recharging on such gliders can be implemented using regenerative concentration fuel cells operating on the temperature and / or salinity difference of water from ballast tanks (taken in tanks near the sea surface) and abortion water taken at maximum diving depth. (The temperature and salinity of water at different depths are different).
                      1. +10
                        13 February 2019 12: 41
                        Svetlana, well, you, directly, are a mega-brain good . But, unfortunately, I did not see at the Pacific Fleet, nor gliders, not autonomous buoys (except for aviation sonar).
                        Regarding the sea blockade of China ... You should have seen how many fishing vessels "rub" off the coast of Shanghai or Dalian! If you put at least one anti-ship missile for each, you get an "invincible armada" ...
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. 0
                        14 February 2019 07: 08
                        Quote: Svetlana
                        developed the ideas of K.E. Tsiolkovsky,


                        But is it possible, in order to increase education, to ask which of the ideas of Tsiolkovsky the Japanese developed?
                      4. +1
                        21 February 2019 18: 31
                        Quote: Sasha_rulevoy
                        Which of Tsiolkovsky’s ideas did the Japanese develop?

                        The Japanese developed many ideas of Tsiolkovsky. For example, the landing of an interplanetary spacecraft on an asteroid (https://newtvnews.ru/science/2019/02/21/japonskij-kosmicheskij-zond-nachal-process-posadki-na-otdalennyj-asteroid/). In 1935 K.E. Tsiolkovsky published an article “A wave-breaker and extracting energy from sea waves”, in which he described the circuit diagrams of the three types of devices that are currently the most promising ones. (https://studbooks.net/1205220/matematika_himiya_fizika/razvitie_volnovoy_energetiki_rossii)
                  2. +1
                    13 February 2019 15: 59
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Note that a strong fleet is capable of blocking China from the sea, "taking" the issue of showdowns with China beyond the land theater of operations.

                    This five 8)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
                    Do you even realize how anecdotally stupid this statement is ???
                    If the Chinese hit, then in the Irkutsk region, and in the fall. Cutting the country in half for a long time. How can a "strong fleet" protect against this? ... Unless he will try to climb the Yenisei-Angara to Baikal 8)))))
                    And by the spring this "strong fleet" of yours will fall into the hands of the Chinese like a wormy apple

                    Blockers, damn it 8))))
                    1. -2
                      13 February 2019 16: 10
                      Quote: Spade
                      Blockers

                      Journalists laughing
                    2. 0
                      13 February 2019 21: 43
                      Lopatov, did you learn to fight in Murzilka magazine? Where have you been taught geography? In the beer stall? See where Irkutsk and where is China. This is the first.

                      Secondly, like this - "If the Chinese hit, then in the region of Irkutsk, and in the fall." - does not happen. Moreover, for a variety of reasons, ranging from the inability to covertly deploy a large mass of troops and ending with the fact that when trying to cut the Transsib, any Chinese grouping comes under a flank attack. And they certainly won't go to the Irkutsk region.

                      In addition, in order to fight, fuel is needed, from China it is probably 80 percent of imported oil, which, in turn, is brought by sea.

                      I was dealing with one terribly cunning Chinese from their GB, and he noticed that if the Chinese foreign trade stalled, they would lose a third of the population from the bush, immediately and without any war.

                      True, he was not frightened by the word "in general", like, the life of one person does not mean anything, but tanks do not go without diesel fuel, alas.

                      In short, you should be sent to kindergarten with such ideas.
                      1. mvg
                        +1
                        14 February 2019 13: 22
                        China, it probably 80 percent of imported oil

                        China is the fourth largest oil producer in the world. And yes, there are still pipes from Iran. Until 2015, the United States was the largest importer of oil, but this does not prevent it from having 2-3 reserves of black gold.
                      2. +1
                        14 February 2019 15: 01
                        I know about Chinese oil, the question is not in its production, but in how much it covers their needs.
          3. -2
            13 February 2019 20: 53
            The USA, Germany, Poland, Norway, Sweden, England, France, Georgia - nothing else, China - until it considers it necessary, America is terrorists through the village of Asia.
            Well, is this list enough for you, or do I recall the composition of NATO in more detail?
        3. +1
          13 February 2019 11: 29
          The conflict will be unlikely if the state has a powerful fleet. They beat to where it breaks. And in any case, the fleet is needed to cover the NE, to land the landing, to counteract the landing, not to mention the cover for the deployment of the strategic nuclear forces. at the moment, the fleet is not a fact that in general it will leave the bases.
          1. 0
            13 February 2019 11: 33
            Damn ... Just look at the map.
            1. +7
              13 February 2019 11: 43
              Damn ... Just look at the map.

              Yes, just look at the map. To the extent of the Russian-Chinese border ... all the more so since there has already been a precedent: we give them our land have given away.
      2. -3
        13 February 2019 16: 44
        Yes, yes, let's also remember "6000 tamogavks that the Americans can release across Russia at any time" and that now we have 12,000 S-300 launchers for protection? fool Understand already at last "do not shoot not at the one who has protection, but at the one who is guaranteed to kill you for such a shot" good
    2. 0
      13 February 2019 09: 23
      It is not clear why the fleet is floating and not being blown up by mines.
      Cool question! Very revealing.
    3. +6
      13 February 2019 11: 08
      It is not clear why the fleet is floating and not being blown up by mines.

      This is because no one has put mines against us yet. And concealed mining from submarines, given our "holes" in the anti-submarine defense of the most important seaports, is quite possible. No one can guarantee that, for example, some Chinese or Japanese or American boat will not put, say, in the Eastern Bosphorus Strait self-setting mines that will be activated at the right time ...
      1. 072
        0
        13 February 2019 12: 35
        The fleet does not swim but walks
        1. +9
          13 February 2019 13: 12
          The fleet does not swim but walks

          People walk on the ground and sailors on the deck. A ship or a vessel floats in the water ... "Equation of buoyancy", "buoyancy margin" ... As for our fleet (I'm talking about the Pacific Fleet), it is ... worth it. Will this terminology suit you?
          1. +1
            13 February 2019 14: 15
            Forced to disagree. 36 DNA is constantly in the sea (or in the factory), 165 obrovr almost all ships on the go, sooo often run into the sea. 19 brpl worse, but also running. Scouts also occasionally ran into the seas (but I lived in a different corner of the bay and I could not see them). Yes, squalor, yes outdated, yes from the sea to repair, but military training is in progress. Can you talk about the Kamchatka flotilla?
      2. -5
        13 February 2019 16: 50
        And 5000 American Tamoghawks - what will we forget? That is, "mines will be placed in our ports" and let's be afraid of them, but cruise missiles (not nuclear) are "you can't think of", so what? Without disputing the possible catastrophic situation with the anti-mine equipment of the fleet, Russia has such "problems" - above the roof. And if Shoigu has hammered a bolt and instead "rivets" something else, then for some reason I trust him more.
        1. +7
          13 February 2019 16: 59
          And 5000 American tomahawks - what do we forget?

          No. But can a cruise missile be shot down? And how to find and defuse a mine if it there is nothing to search ?
          And if Shoigu has hammered a bolt and instead "rivets" something else, then for some reason I trust him more.

          As you wish. You are not a sailor, you, in which case, will not have to go to the bottom ... like Shoigu. Therefore, we live as we live.
          1. -1
            13 February 2019 21: 08
            I’m not a tanker who gore in a tank that is not equipped with a KAZ, I’m not a pilot and I don’t get shot down and burn out in a weeds because of the absence, I don’t know what is urgently needed there now? At least in Syria, something forced our pilots to lower them from safe heights to hit by MANPADS, and then Heroes appear. And I DO NOT WANT that the Heroes were dead to us, let them remain "who have not accomplished heroism", let them raise and pamper children, let them die at a respectable age, surrounded by loving grandchildren and great-grandchildren good
            And yes, as in the article "we have ALL the technical capabilities to do this." fool . So let our fleet go on a joke if this allows us to no longer lose good people due to the lack of equipment of our aircraft and aircraft.
            And for mining, I already wrote above - indiscriminately, I’m a nuclear missile at the VoshokObkom, because all who can mine something are closed in submission to them. am
    4. +5
      13 February 2019 11: 26
      Command of the Navy to turn on the software. It, command, does not hesitate to talk about it out loud.
  3. +2
    13 February 2019 08: 12
    Or maybe it’s not so-so to build and develop a fleet so as not to be afraid of a mine and other threats? Like, there is no fleet, which means that there is no threat that they will sink it, etc. lol
  4. +5
    13 February 2019 08: 44
    A very important topic, it is especially important to ensure mine safety of submarines, urgent measures must be taken to rectify the situation
    1. +3
      13 February 2019 11: 24
      Alas, but personally I do not believe that something will be done.
  5. -5
    13 February 2019 09: 39
    I will repeat my question again. What is the bad fight against minefields by the method of undermining nuclear charges in these same minefields? It is clear there radiation on their shores, etc. But if the bill goes to hours and minutes, it will once have fun with helicopter trawls and underwater mine destroyers.
    1. +4
      13 February 2019 11: 12
      I will repeat my question again. What is bad about fighting minefields using the method of undermining nuclear weapons in these minefields?


      The orderlies will come running, twist, put them in a straitjacket and prick with different garbage.

      But if the bill goes on hours and minutes, there will be no time to be entertained with helicopter trawls and underwater destroyers of mines.


      The combination of self-propelled trawls, BEKov with GAS and STIUM just also makes it possible to resolve the issue in a matter of hours.
      Americans spent an average of one minute in the Persian Gulf 12 minutes.
      1. +1
        13 February 2019 11: 26
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        The orderlies will come running, twist, put them in a straitjacket and prick with different garbage.

        Mushrooms?
    2. +6
      13 February 2019 11: 18
      What is the bad fight against minefields by the method of undermining nuclear charges in these same minefields? It is clear there radiation on their shores, etc.

      Obviously, the bad news is that any war ends sooner or later, but the radiation remains. Water vapor saturated with uranium fission products will condense and fall out in radioactive fallout on the nearby area ... At one of the shipyards of the Primorsky Territory, during routine maintenance, a nuclear reactor on a submarine exploded. The soil from the surroundings was then cut off for a long time with bulldozers, so it "phoned" ...
    3. +6
      13 February 2019 11: 24
      In the waters of Peter the Great Bay, for example, or next to the Sevastopol Bay .... Or in the Kola Bay. Do not talk nonsense. First read about the damaging factors of underwater and surface nuclear explosions, project onto the coastal zone, port water areas and estimate the consequences. Cockroaches in the apartment are not poisoned by a house explosion.
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. +7
      13 February 2019 11: 15
      Yes, everything is so, and moreover, we know from history that mining is the first shot in the war, before it began, there is no war and it is not possible to drown someone with a hand. We need tight control in coastal waters, and not only FOSS, but also PLO, continuous sonar observation, aircraft in the air, and means are needed to detect the discharge of mines from planes in the dark at night.

      On this no one is steaming here, absolutely, on Kamchatka, for example, two dead minesweepers, incapable of demining.
      1. +12
        13 February 2019 11: 34
        On this no one is steaming here, absolutely, on Kamchatka, for example, two dead minesweepers, incapable of demining.

        In Vladivostok (Pacific Fleet headquarters!) The situation is approximately the same, and it has long been no longer a military secret for anyone. During the Russo-Japanese War, Vladivostok was defended by a detachment of submarines from Japanese mine laying. And then, the Japanese at night laid mines almost at the very island of Russian. Now the mines are different, and the war will be different. Only human stupidity and stupidity remains the same ... Oh, yes! There will certainly be heroes who "at the cost of their own lives ensured the exit of the ships of the fleet" to the position ...
        1. +4
          13 February 2019 11: 56
          There will certainly be heroes who "at the cost of their own lives ensured the exit of the ships of the fleet" to the position ...


          Struck ships. I wrote about it. Only further the PLO and enemy submarine factor will arise which have nothing to detect at the torpedo launch range.
  7. +3
    13 February 2019 09: 58
    There were! Well, our Navy had Mi-14 "sea" helicopters (anti-submarine, rescue, "minesweepers" ...)! I don’t know how they did not please the racial officials (military and civilian ...). But the production of the Mi-14 was stopped, and the existing ones were quietly breaking down ... I don’t know now: did they (and how many) remained in the racial Navy? True, I heard that not so long ago a "question" was raised (in the state duma ... in the MO ...) about the modernization and resumption of production of the Mi-14 ... but I do not know anything about the practical results. I suppose that the development of unmanned aerial platforms of a helicopter (multicopter) type (minesweepers, mine seekers, mine destroyers ...) with lowered and towed equipment is currently relevant ...
    1. +2
      13 February 2019 11: 16
      I don’t know now: did they (and how many) remained in the racial navy? True, I heard that not so long ago a "question" was raised (in the state duma ... in the MO ...) about the modernization and resumption of production of the Mi-14 ... but I do not know anything about the practical results.


      This talk is about antisubmarine helicopters, not about trawl towers.
  8. -1
    13 February 2019 10: 15
    Quote from rudolf
    Poseidons, Petrels and the like crap

    Have you ever wondered at least why the RSFSR did not fall apart after the collapse of the USSR, despite the subversive actions of NATO and Saudi Arabia in the North Caucasus, the massive withdrawal of assets abroad, the promotion of separatism in the Volga region and the wholesale purchase of the fifth column throughout Russia.

    Our (not yours) nuclear missile complex is such a mess, isn't it? bully
    1. +10
      13 February 2019 11: 19
      And why ruin it? That oil and gas do not swing abroad? Is the population dying out? And who will keep this gigantic territory under control? NATO? Not funny. We fulfill our function of a gas station. Recently, the feathers have been fluffed up and we are trying to resist the Forces of Good .... But having such HOLES in the defense, like PLO, PMO, they started too early.
      1. -2
        13 February 2019 11: 29
        Nobody is interested in oil and gas as such - they are in the world overwhelmed (Persian Gulf, Venezuela, North Africa). Everyone is interested only in revenues for these resources - and the lion's share of revenues for Russian hydrocarbons remains in Russia.

        Therefore, there are many who want to change this ratio - for example, by reducing the population of the Russian Federation from 150 to 15 million or separating Siberia and the Far East from the European part of the country (which is even more profitable - the population of extractive regions is reduced to 1,5 million)

        But this does not happen for a simple reason - we don’t have holes in the PLO / PMO, they have holes in the ABM bully
        1. +6
          13 February 2019 11: 50
          I’ll come from a different angle. You rely on Poseidons, Caliber and ballistic missiles. All this is launched from ships that CANNOT go to sea. Consider that the marine component of the strategic nuclear forces is out of order. Billions of dollars are being spent on virtually useless ships, because they did not spend a penny (against the general background) on the creation of a PMO.
          1. -2
            13 February 2019 12: 05
            Where did you get the data that our ballistic and cruise missiles are launched from ships - it is a well-known fact that most of the nuclear potential of the Russian Federation is located on land ICBMs and aircraft carriers (X-102 and "Dagger"), and starting this year it will begin to deploy ground group of MRBM and "Caliber".

            And why should the carriers of the Poseidons, as well as the Poseidons themselves, go out to sea after the outbreak of hostilities (mining of the exits and any other naval blockade is equated to military action under international law)? Poseidons, with the help of carriers or independently, will reach the deployment lines in international waters before the outbreak of hostilities.

            Therefore, the specific gravity and significance of Russian SLBMs and sea-based cruise missiles will naturally decrease every year.
            1. +8
              13 February 2019 12: 16
              Where did you get the data that our ballistic and cruise missiles are launched from ships - it is a well-known fact that most of the nuclear potential of the Russian Federation is located on land ICBMs and aircraft carriers (X-102 and "Dagger"), and starting this year it will begin to deploy ground group of MRBM and "Caliber".


              About 40% on SSBN posted if that.
            2. +2
              13 February 2019 14: 28
              milestones of deployment in international waters before hostilities.
              February 8, 1904, as it were, hints. 115 years old was recently. Nobody like Svyatoslav Igorevich will tell you "I'm going for you".
              1. -5
                13 February 2019 15: 06
                The seabed of the World Ocean in international waters is the place of permanent deployment of unmanned vehicles with nuclear power systems. To activate, they need a signal not from the enemy's side, but from the owner's side - for example, a code message from the Zeus ELF RP.
                1. +2
                  13 February 2019 18: 40
                  Let me guess what kind of apparatus .... Poseidon? Which is not yet? Who told you that they will be on duty autonomously? It is still unknown. It is assumed that they will be launched from carriers, that is, from submarines. Which also need to get out of the base.
                  1. -3
                    13 February 2019 20: 48
                    Quote: Beregovyhok_1
                    Poseidon? Which is not yet?

                    I missed something - is there already mining approaches to our bases?
                    1. 0
                      13 February 2019 21: 45
                      Why shouldn't he be? Mines are activated and decanted remotely, we do not have either FOSS or sane PLO, we cannot track this.
                    2. 0
                      13 February 2019 22: 05
                      There are mines. And their delivery vehicles. By the way, it would be interesting to read an article about domestic mine weapons, scenarios of their use, means of setting barriers. And most importantly, how the Forces of Good will fight this.
                      1. +1
                        14 February 2019 08: 53
                        And most importantly, how the Forces of Good will fight this.


                        The second article in the series. There about how the forces of good.

                        Mines is a secret topic, but what is actually being produced can be viewed on the Rosoboronexport website, and what is in warehouses can be viewed online, almost all the mines that we produced are still at the disposal of the Navy.

                        Estimated, according to amers, we have about 250 thousand mines, that is, roughly like NATO
                      2. mvg
                        0
                        14 February 2019 13: 36
                        Estimated, according to amers, we have about 250 thousand mines, that is, roughly like NATO

                        And what's the point if there is no one to put them on? It is unlikely that many submarines will be able to leave the bases, with a serious mess. And NK has no chance at all, especially at the Pacific Fleet. Where, besides the USA, there are many times more powerful Navy of Japan and South Korea.
                      3. 0
                        14 February 2019 15: 03
                        This is where the questions for the Navy come from.
    2. +6
      13 February 2019 11: 23
      The counter question is why did the nuclear USSR collapse? Why didn't nuclear weapons help?
      1. -7
        13 February 2019 11: 51
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        why did the nuclear USSR fall apart?

        The USSR had to fall apart in order to throw off the sucking parasites (Baltic states, Ukraine, Transcaucasia, Kazakhstan and Central Asia) from its core (RSFSR). But at the same time change the legal form - a confederation (consisting of nation-states with the right of exit) to a federation (consisting of regions, territories and national-cultural autonomies without the right of exit).

        Plus an additional bonus - the title nation in Russia according to the census is 80%, when reunited with Ukraine and Belarus, its share will rise to 90%, which corresponds to the most stable national state formations (China, Japan, Germany).

        Most of those who disagree with the reunion have naturally moved to Europe, America and Israel; those who disagree with it must be helped to make the right choice. In Kazakhstan and Central Asia, the United States launched a process of radical Islamization by transferring ISIS strike units from the Middle East. After some time, we will have to make a situational decision about the Russian-speaking population of Northern Kazakhstan. Etc. etc.

        So why did you fall apart? laughing
    3. +8
      13 February 2019 11: 30
      Quote: Operator
      Have you ever wondered at least why the RSFSR did not fall apart after the collapse of the USSR, despite the subversive actions of NATO and Saudi Arabia in the North Caucasus, the massive withdrawal of assets abroad, the promotion of separatism in the Volga region and the wholesale purchase of the fifth column throughout Russia.

      Our (not yours) nuclear missile complex is such a mess, isn't it?

      A terrible dream of any sane country: a country falling to pieces with nuclear weapons and crazy arsenals of conventional weapons that could fall into the hands of crazy scumbags. Therefore, Russia was not allowed to collapse.

      Russia itself is glad to fall apart:
      1. The Russians are sure that they fed the Soviet republics.
      2. Zamkadysh sure that they feed Moscow.
      3. Muscovites are sure that no one else in Russia deserves a good life besides them.

      Next are the interethnic showdowns that take place in statistics as domestic conflicts.

      Quote: Operator
      mass withdrawal of assets abroad

      You might think less capital outflows now.
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. -5
        13 February 2019 15: 29
        Once again - nothing fell apart, the reason is just the same nuclear weapons in commodity quantities.

        We just shook off the communist dust from our feet (national republics = parasites) and now we have a national state. If you are a representative of a non-titular nation of the Russian Federation, then contact your complaints to the UN, ECHR, Sportloto, etc.
        1. +2
          13 February 2019 19: 14
          Quote: Operator
          We just shook off the communist dust from our feet (national republics = parasites) and now we have a national state

          Tell it to Ramzanka Dyrova.
          1. -1
            13 February 2019 20: 51
            Quote: albert
            Tell it to ramzanke

            Russian Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan against the background of Soviet Ukraine, the Baltic states, Transcaucasia, the same North Caucasus, Central Asia and Kazakhstan - in terms of subsidies heaven and earth.
    5. +1
      13 February 2019 11: 51
      You can only rely on Yars and Sarmatians. SSNF and strategic aviation in a deep hole
      1. +3
        13 February 2019 12: 01
        TNW more. But the enemy may impose such a scenario in which it will not be applicable.
    6. 0
      13 February 2019 20: 48
      Quote: Operator
      Have you ever wondered why the RSFSR didn’t fall apart after the collapse of the USSR,


      And really, why?
  9. +9
    13 February 2019 10: 52
    Alexander, thank you very much human for an interesting series of articles. I have a mine and torpedo mine, I know by hearsay about the problems of domestic naval mine weapons. In this area of ​​military activity, our Navy is shamefully weak ... unfortunately.
    1. +6
      13 February 2019 11: 18
      Beginning services for the development and operation of naval underwater weapons of the Department of Shipbuilding of the Navy cap-1 I. Taran: "That's when the ships begin to undermine, then we will take measures." Said January 2015.

      So, by the way. This is the question of why everything is so. And this is nonsense, and worse things happen in the Navy now.
  10. +3
    13 February 2019 11: 14
    Thank you very much to the author for the work done! I agree with everything said, despite the fact that the topic of the current state of ships and their repair is not affected. The crews order components at the factory at their own expense. It turns out that it happens. Minesweepers provide every exit to the sea from the base of the Navy ships. They are actually suicide bombers.
    1. +3
      13 February 2019 11: 58
      Crew components at the factory at their own expense ordered.


      Tin. I can not believe just.

      They are actually suicide bombers.


      Given the fact that mines will be torn not under the trawls, but under the minesweepers - yes, suicide bombers.
      1. +3
        13 February 2019 14: 22
        Tin. I can not believe just.
        it was faster and cheaper to complete the task. Communicated with crew members from a division of minesweepers from 165 brigades. For bch-4 I’ll say for sure, they ordered radio components, they themselves went over the receivers and transmitters, because the plant does not send specialists quickly, and the repair is very expensive. Therefore, it is postponed all the time. The guys get sick and spin themselves. Mechanics are also invested in materiel, but what about fundraising from the entire crew for the replacement of lighting lamps and painting .... This is on all ships.
        1. 0
          13 February 2019 21: 47
          Well, radio components and light bulbs are not very expensive, I have already presented components for a diesel engine from "Zvezda", although there is still nothing good about it.

          Some game, how could one get to this? In 90 there was such a thing, but now why?
          1. 0
            13 February 2019 22: 03
            I do not claim that the crew completely serves the ship at its own expense. No, there are scheduled repairs, paint is released, but the calculations do not correspond to real needs. And basically the commanders of the flotillas, divisions, who do not care how and at whose expense the ship will be painted, mostly suffer from foolishness, the main thing is that on time. Less paint than necessary - spin as you want. This is ubiquitous in the army. Technicians and drivers in the parks invested in rubles in equipment, we are putting our best efforts to maintain the housing and barracks fund, and so on.
  11. -6
    13 February 2019 11: 32
    Quote: sabotage
    You might think less capital outflows now
    Russians are sure that they fed the Soviet republics

    Now the Russian Federation has a surplus of capital flows - all of a sudden.

    We have no doubt that you are sure that the Union republics fed the RSFSR laughing
    1. +4
      13 February 2019 11: 58
      Quote: Operator
      Now the Russian Federation has a surplus of capital flows - all of a sudden.

      https://www.interfax.ru/business/646567

      Insolent lies?
      Quote: Operator
      We have no doubt that you are sure that the Union republics fed the RSFSR

      The question is not who feeds whom, but how it turns out and what measures are being taken to rectify the situation. But why take action, make decisions, if you can just blame the neighbors and be proud of the halo over your head. Only as a result the country is falling apart.
      1. -4
        13 February 2019 15: 19
        Quote: sabotage
        the country is falling apart

        The USSR in 1991 did not fall apart, but ceased to exist in strict accordance with the Union Treaty of 1922 of the year - the ruling party itself drove itself into a legal impasse.
        1. 0
          14 February 2019 02: 26
          Quote: Operator
          The USSR in the 1991 year did not fall apart, but ceased to exist in strict accordance with the Union Treaty of the 1922 year

          Why sho you gutar !? belay And sho there "just by agreement"? what
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            14 February 2019 09: 52
            The text of the Union Treaty is available on the Internet.
  12. +4
    13 February 2019 12: 06
    In principle, the author’s ideas are not bad. But there is one thing. and it is huge. No dough. Why do we need a fleet of mine minesweepers if soon there will be nothing to go to sea? The fleet needs everything and in large numbers also modern and even capable of fighting ... Surface ships of the ocean zone, aircraft carriers, landing ships, escort ships, hunter submarines, strategic submarines, etc., etc., and all 4 fleets at once. And in such a quantity that they would defeat all enemies and break all the blockades .... Very sad it all. There is no money, and those that still emit sawn or spend it unreasonably. Ships are being built for 8–9 years ..... To summarize all of the above, we need a concept-strategy for the development of the fleet. and only then we will know what where and in what quantity we need. and so one daub turns out.
    1. +4
      13 February 2019 12: 17
      Summing up the above, we need a concept-strategy of fleet development. and only then will we know what is where and in what quantity we need. and daub one is obtained.


      Exactly. Alas, but so far they have not given birth to anything distinct.
  13. 0
    13 February 2019 12: 19
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    I will repeat my question again. What is bad about fighting minefields using the method of undermining nuclear weapons in these minefields?


    The orderlies will come running, twist, put them in a straitjacket and prick with different garbage.

    But if the bill goes on hours and minutes, there will be no time to be entertained with helicopter trawls and underwater destroyers of mines.


    The combination of self-propelled trawls, BEKov with GAS and STIUM just also makes it possible to resolve the issue in a matter of hours.
    Americans spent an average of one minute in the Persian Gulf 12 minutes.

    1. Something the orderlies for the developers of the Moscow ABM system didn’t come.
    2. 12 minutes 1 mine, 10 min 120 minutes, 100 min 1200 minutes, almost a day. Nu-nu ...
    All these trawls underwater drones are good at peacefully clearing, and not when hundreds of tomahawks fly into the base.
    PS: but I by no means say that we do not need the trawling forces of the Navy. I completely agree with everything written in the article. It's not about that, but about extreme measures in critical situations.
    1. +2
      13 February 2019 12: 25
      1. Something the orderlies for the developers of the Moscow ABM system didn’t come.


      You do not understand the difference, yes?

      2. 12 minutes 1 mine, 10 min 120 minutes, 100 min 1200 minutes, almost a day. Nu-nu ...


      With self-propelled trawls and BECs it will be faster, and, as it were, not at times. In addition, there will be no hundreds of mines in the "corridor" for the exit. This is "everything."
  14. 0
    13 February 2019 12: 42
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    1. Something the orderlies for the developers of the Moscow ABM system didn’t come.


    You do not understand the difference, yes?

    2. 12 minutes 1 mine, 10 min 120 minutes, 100 min 1200 minutes, almost a day. Nu-nu ...


    With self-propelled trawls and BECs it will be faster, and, as it were, not at times. In addition, there will be no hundreds of mines in the "corridor" for the exit. This is "everything."

    Honestly, I think an airborne nuclear explosion over a city with a millionaire is much more dangerous than an underwater one, wherever you are outside the base at the SF or Pacific Fleet.

    Why not hundreds? If the same Captors beat for 10 km, and a pair of enemy nuclear submarines is capable of putting these hundreds.
    1. +3
      13 February 2019 13: 41
      An air explosion at a height of tens of kilometers has the minimum risk as a source of physical damage. Radiation output will also be minimal. EMR and flash will be striking factors, but with the undermining of a special CCU in the water near its shore, this is not comparable and close.

      Why not hundreds? If the same Kaptora 10 km pounding


      1000 m

      and a couple of enemy submarines are capable of hundreds.


      Tens.
  15. 0
    13 February 2019 14: 36
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    An air explosion at a height of tens of kilometers has the minimum risk as a source of physical damage. Radiation output will also be minimal. EMR and flash will be striking factors, but with the undermining of a special CCU in the water near its shore, this is not comparable and close.

    Why not hundreds? If the same Kaptora 10 km pounding


    1000 m

    and a couple of enemy submarines are capable of hundreds.


    Tens.

    7400 m, I only found such information. Our first PMT-1 and those on 4000 m acted.
    Ok, 2 boats will be set for 50 minutes. How many United States Virginia are there?
    Further, what would be a destructive explosion of 10 Kt at a 50 meter depth in tens of kilometers from the SF or Pacific Fleet base? I doubt that the submarines will be able to covertly mine the exits from the bases closer than 10 km, or even more.
    In any case, I think this question is very interesting and worth a detailed study. Although, probably, specialists have long studied everything.
    1. 0
      13 February 2019 21: 49
      7400 m, I only found such information. Our first PMT-1 and those on 4000 m acted.


      This is the range of the torpedo, and the range of target detection is different, which makes it possible to break through the corridor in the fence.
      1. 0
        14 February 2019 09: 37
        The Mk41 torpedo has an even greater range. 7400 is precisely the detection range. Our PMT-1 had a shorter range of 4000 m only due to less advanced hydroponic equipment. So the corridor will have to break through a width of 15 km. Or hope for a package of NK. Well, or that TNW, as I suggest.
        1. 0
          14 February 2019 15: 04
          Do not invent, the captor does not have such a detection range.
  16. -3
    13 February 2019 17: 23
    Quote: Tlauicol
    Swallow any defeat, loss, humiliation

    I personally agree to swallow Crimea for Damansky Island, and Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova and the Baltic States for the four islands of the Lesser Kuril Ridge laughing
    1. 0
      13 February 2019 22: 09
      You probably forgot that the Sea of ​​Okhotsk is added to the islands!
      1. 0
        13 February 2019 22: 13
        The water area of ​​the Sea of ​​Okhotsk from the west is cut off from the Lesser Kuril Ridge by the Big Ridge.
        1. 0
          14 February 2019 18: 01
          It reminds me of ... a childhood, a fairy tale about a fox asking for a bunny tail to warm itself.
  17. exo
    0
    13 February 2019 20: 43
    It is not difficult to guess that all of the above in the foreseeable future will not be done.

    Hard to disagree. Thank you for the article!
    1. 0
      13 February 2019 21: 49
      Please glad you liked it.
      1. 0
        13 February 2019 23: 52
        now any ship can have minesweeper functionality
        on Alexandrita they put underwater laser devices with a range of up to 5 km and the Galtel remote sensing complex in conjunction with the Chilim mine destroyers
        1. 0
          14 February 2019 08: 56
          laser devices for underwater vision with a range of up to 5 km are put on Alexandrites


          They shine shallowly.

          and the Galtel remote sensing complex in conjunction with the Chilim mine destroyers


          Users are shocked by the effectiveness of these devices. In the strong.
          1. 0
            14 February 2019 09: 42
            laser devices for underwater vision with a range of up to 5 km are put on Alexandrites

            They shine shallowly.

            deep-sea laser sounding, to obtain information on hydro-optical inhomogeneities, reaches depths of up to 240 meters
            and the Galtel remote sensing complex (KDZ) in combination with the Chilim mine destroyers

            on one minesweeper they put on 4 AWP control cabinet KDZ (4х6 = 24 of the channel):
            4 KDZ "Galtel"
            20 UM "Chilim"
            General BC BCH-3: 8-12 KDZ "Galtel", ~ 60 UM "Chilim"
            1. 0
              14 February 2019 15: 06
              Yes, these fillets do not work, be afraid, but for a laser that can shine on not just shine on 240 m, and there is not enough energy to classify a mine on a minesweeper
              1. 0
                14 February 2019 15: 35
                Yes, these fillets do not work, be afraid, but for a laser that can shine on not just shine on 240 m, and there is not enough energy to classify a mine on a minesweeper

                KDZ Galtel works (!) As a sensing complex and classifies targets. The Chilim mine destroyer destroys them. I do not understand your logic (!) Everything works, the BC of one Alexandrite is enough to destroy 60 minutes. And stationary laser ranging devices (LZ) operate at a distance of up to 5 km. in depth up to 240 meters.
                Portable diving LPs operate from batteries up to 2 hours with a range of up to 50 meters.
                1. -1
                  15 February 2019 12: 04
                  I do not understand your logic (!)


                  Here the logic is simple - the naval ones tried this iron and are very unhappy.
  18. -1
    14 February 2019 01: 25
    the most logical in the case of laying mines by the enemy is to launch cheap troughs with radio control and an acoustic simulator. and if necessary, then magnetic.
    heel-ten and the fairway is ready.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        14 February 2019 02: 38
        Quote: Soviet soldier

        I imagined how I penetrate your warm cave.

        What was that? belay How did it "all of a sudden" the VO site for adult militarists transformed into a site for "16 and a little older" erotomaniacs? wassat Did I "oversleep" something? request
        1. 0
          14 February 2019 09: 00
          Have you seen what he still wrote?
          whether the patient escaped from the hospital, then sits under the substances ...
    2. 0
      14 February 2019 08: 56
      Better self-propelled trawl - mine can be configured for a specific range of physical fields and some trough will simply skip.
  19. +1
    14 February 2019 03: 44
    The article is good. But we may not know what is going on at the research institute and the minds of admirals. We have always caught up with the West. And therefore, if we did not copy the samples, we created the best for decades to come. Maybe it’s just that the plan doesn’t work out yet. The avant-garde has been built and we can do it. Give time. . Russia was always not to understand. And we always hid our results and performance characteristics. Everything is bad with us, everything is bad. Bats and cartoons were shown, but not such cartoons. We see that they allow us. And this opinion is not "Hooray, couch patriot. "Why would a potential adversary know this? Let them think that Russia is" Lapot is not washed "
    1. -1
      14 February 2019 08: 57
      Once again - everything has already been invented, or almost invented, just the fleet does not give a damn about the mine threat.
  20. 0
    14 February 2019 16: 35
    This ship should be used not as a minesweeper or even TSCHNI, but as a new one for us, but long ago withdrawn in the West to a separate class “mine hunter” - mine hunter, which in the conditions of the Navy can get some kind of Russian traditionally “gray” a name, for example, simply “mine-seeker ship”.

    Rather floating base KATSCH or trawl control ship.
    Today, the only realistic platform for such a helicopter is the Mi-17 helicopters.

    Why not Ka-27/32? Kamov’s vehicles are more familiar to the fleet.