Atomic drone "Poseidon": useless superweapon

839

Military lovers stories remember that Nazi Germany at a certain moment was obsessed with the ideas of creating super-weapons. "Super weapon" and "Weapon retaliation "became the axial concepts of German military propaganda.

I must say that the Germans did a lot. They massively used cruise and ballistic missiles, massively and for the first time they successfully used guided air bombs to destroy surface targets, and with a rather destructive effect, they also used jet combat aircraft. It was Germany that was the first to introduce an intermediate-cartridge based assault rifle into mass production, it was the Germans who first tested anti-tank and anti-aircraft guided missiles, the first to use tank night vision devices with infrared illumination. The German submarines of the XXI series became a genuine revolution. The first photo of our planet from a mark above the "Karman line" is Germany. The canceled projects are also impressive - a suborbital rocket-bomber, an intercontinental ballistic missile ...



The Germans didn’t have enough for a nuclear weapon, if they had a bit more foresight in the late thirties, everything could have gone differently. No, they would still have been crushed, of course, but the price would have been significantly higher. They lacked a little ...

Yes, and serial weapons were made on the same canons. Take, for example, the Tigr tank - the gun could reach T-34 or KV at a distance of a couple of kilometers, armor ruled out defeat of the tank "head on" by tank and anti-tank guns at the time of its appearance with the enemy , the tank could easily move along the spring and autumn fields and roads of the Eastern Front. Yes, we had to have spare rollers and carry a set of narrow tracks. But what power! And the "Panther" did according to the same criteria.

The result, however, was not very. Yes, the Russians gave several lighter T-34s for each Tiger and Panther, and then the Americans with their Shermans experienced the same thing. But the Shermans and T-34 were too many. More than the technically sophisticated Tigers and Panthers could win in battle, more than the huge and heavy 88-mm cannons could destroy, more than the German rocket launchers could burn out of Faustpron.

The number won. The Russians made tons of steel more weapons than the Germans, the Americans, too, the military economy of the allies was much more efficient, and they also had numerical superiority. But most importantly, their commanders and fighters learned to resist the German super-weapon. Yes, the "Royal Tiger" was 180 millimeters frontal armor. But the tank guards Colonel Arkhipov "carried" the first battalion of "Royal Tigers" "dry." On the T-34. And the staff bus was taken away from the surviving Germans, as if in mockery. Human will and intelligence can level the power of any weapon.

Over-weapon doesn't work. Or almost does not work. For example, a hundred US atomic bombs in 1944 would work. And in 1962 there is none. What matters is the number and "overall average level" of troops or forces. A lot of tanks and guns, a lot of ships, a lot of planes and soldiers. A lot of ammunition. Powerful economy capable of supplying all this. Trained personnel who can use all this.

It is important. And a separate sample of super-weapon will not give anything if it does not raise the destructive power of striking an enemy by orders of magnitude, like a firearm and an atomic bomb. Such a lesson gives us the story.

No, his, this sample, can be made. But not to the detriment of what is the basis of military power.

The latest news about what was previously known as the "Status-6" nuclear submarine crewless device "Poseidon" will be put on combat duty in the number of 32-x units, for which 8 will be specially built (or upgraded for this super-torpedo, which is less likely) of submarines, makes us recall the experience of the strategists of the Third Reich who put the wrong ones on those horses wherever possible.

What good will the creation of a group of such devices give Russia? What opportunities will take? Let's think about it.

But first, a technical caveat.

"Poseidon" is small in comparison with the size of submarines. For this reason, its detection by radar methods, which were mentioned earlier, will apparently be difficult. However, if you believe information about the giant torpedo speed, then it should be recognized that its detection and relatively accurate localization will be quite possible by acoustic methods - the noise from torpedo nodes going at speed in 100 will be heard from great distances as the Poseidon approaches the arrays US SOSUS / IUSS bottom sensors, it will be possible to send anti-submarine aircraft to the intended area of ​​torpedo movement and determine its location accurately. Next comes the question of defeating the target. Admittedly, technologically, the West is already able to quickly and inexpensively create weapons for this.

For example, the European MU-90 Hard Kill, the anti-torpedo capable of hitting targets at a depth of 1000 meters, can be the basis for an anti-torpedo capable of being dropped from an aircraft on a heading course. There are other candidates for antitrust, the same American CAT (Countermeasure anti-torpedo), already tested from surface ships and also optimized for the destruction of high-speed deep-water targets (which is interesting, to the detriment of the main purpose, we will return to this). It will, of course, have to be “taught” to be applied from an airplane at first, but this is not a big problem, after all, in the USA there are single torpedoes used both from surface ships and aircraft, they are able to solve such problems. A MU-90 from the plane is quite a flies.



Naturally, the speed of the Poseidon will complicate the interception, but the basing of anti-torpedoes on an aircraft will make it possible to attack an underwater drone on a head-on course, which will allow it to be “reached”, and the huge distance to the target, which drone will have to pass, will give the Americans hundreds of attempts.

Of course, it is possible that this device will actually sneak in a small way, for example, on 10-15 nodes, in the “problem” depth zone - no more than 100 meters, near the boundaries of the “jump layer”, or, if there are several such layers, between them. Then its detection will become much more difficult - the ocean is huge, and to provide the necessary forces and means everywhere will not work. Again, just below we will see that geography also "plays" on the side of the enemy. If the “Poseidon” goes along the route at a great depth, as promised, but at low speed, then this will reduce to zero the possibility of detecting it with non-acoustic methods (by radioactive trace or by thermal radiation, or by other known methods), but it will somewhat simplify Acoustic detection, although at low speed, it will be difficult to detect it.

We will not build our conclusions in the absence of accurate information about the performance characteristics of a nuclear drone. We will further proceed from the fact that the mode of its movement provides the necessary level of secrecy, that is, in any case, this is a small move.

Now we estimate the usefulness and justification of this super-weapon.

The first. When and if the Poseidons rush off the American coast, we will all be dead. This in a sense depreciates the investment. In reality, the sense of means of deterrence, and weapons, and the armed forces is that we still remain alive, preferably in such quantity that our culture is preserved. The bet on “doomsday machines,” even from the point of view of logic, looks flawless. According to the statements of some comrades in uniform, theoretical research on such a torpedo goes almost from Soviet times, and the final "go-ahead" for the project was given immediately after the Americans left the ABM Treaty. Elementary logic demanded that those in power ask themselves two questions. First, can the Americans, with the help of their missile defense, repel the strike of our strategic missile forces? Second - under what circumstances will the answer to the first question be positive?

The answer is one and he is known - missile defense is only missile defense when the United States managed to deliver a sudden disarming nuclear strike to the Russian Federation. In another case, the missile defense does not make sense. But with a missed strike - it has, because in the opposite direction a very small number of missiles will fly.

Then, the powers that be should have thought, the Americans must be preparing such a blow to the Russian Federation - otherwise, why would they need all this?

At this moment, the only real way to solve the “American question” should have been not the cost of a new deterrent, a plus to the existing ones, but political decision to destroy the United States, and to start preparing such an operation. We will not speculate on how to do this - the Americans are planning a disarming and decapitating strike in the first round, and, for about twenty minutes, a counter-force, with the destruction of all the Strategic Missile Forces deployed on the ground, and destruction with the help of anti-submarine aviation and our submarines of our SSBNs. The last teachings on the subject known to the author took place in 2014. Probably, they are also passing now.

The problem here is that even if it is a counter-attack, against our SNF and tactical nuclear weapons, they will have to break their warheads to destroy silo at the surface of the earth, and this will cause a radioactive contamination of such strength that the attack can be equated to the consequences. And we will not care whether these drones work or not.

We, in general, can be guided by the same logic and throw all the resources on solving the same tasks: a decapitating strike to gain time, a blow to communications with SSBNs, ICGS silos, Strategic Aviation Command air bases, SSBNs naval bases, air force bases capable of covering with their aircraft areas of SSBN combat patrols and, within the next few hours, destroying SSBNs themselves. To the Americans simply do not suicide to attack in response. This is certainly not easy, and very dangerous, but not impossible.

Americans, with their equipment, by the way, something “does not work” all the time at the maneuvers - one or two Russian submarines manage to “shoot”, the mission failed. But they train, learn. We could also, if we concentrated on the main task. On the other hand, the American society is now seriously split, full of contradictions, and, perhaps, the “American question” could be solved not by a direct military strike, but somehow, by organizing some sort of “get-together” inside their country and throwing it up. fuel "to all parties to the conflict to maximize losses. One way or another, if your neighbor is a crazy cannibal, determined to kill you, when the opportunity arises, then slapping him first is your duty, and the tactics of showing him all new and new rifles and carbines stored at your home is wrong it just waits for you to turn your back on it. And it can not wait for one day in fact.

We, with our super torpedoes, act exactly the opposite.

The second. Poseidon really adds nothing to our deterrence potential. Our missiles with a preventive or retaliatory strike against the United States are fully capable of tearing their country off the face of the Earth. They will actually survive there, but after that even Mexico will be able to conquer them. What gives also super torpedo? Maybe it increases the fighting stability of the NSNF? No, it does not increase, the Americans are grazing on the outs of our bases, and they hang on the tail of the SSBN for a long time. What will also prevent them from "spudding" several Poseidon carriers? Nothing.

Our PLO forces have practically died, there are practically no underwater lighting systems (FOSS), we cannot even deploy existing submarines, several new ones will not change the situation from the word “absolutely”. It’s just that the last money will go to them, and it will be possible to solve the problem of “Poseidon” even by banal mining of the waters around the bases, against which we have no means. The SSBN, at least from the pier, can fire, and the Poseidon carrier will have to pass mines. Or to Poseidon himself.

If we do not miss the first blow from the United States, then the funds already available will allow the Americans to cause unacceptable damage. If we skip, then "Poseidons" will not solve anything - we will not, and they are not the fact that they will work. As James Mattis rightly pointed out, all these systems (Dagger, Avant-garde, Poseidon) add nothing to the Russian deterrent potential, and therefore the reaction from the United States does not require. In the latter, he was cunning, but he spoke about containment very precisely.

And really, is there a difference - a volley of one submarine in US cities, or an attack of a pack of super-torpedoes? The number of dead Americans will be comparable. The destruction, however, from the "Poseidon" will be more, but here comes the third "but."

Third. "Poseidon" quite intercepted system. Contrary to what the press claims, the search and detection of such a device is possible. If we assume that he is moving toward the goal at slow speed, then the Americans will have several days for the active part of the search and reaction operation. Even frankly, up to two weeks. If the device goes fast, then it will begin to hear sonar with all the consequences. At the same time, a significant part of the US anti-submarine forces can deploy in advance. Geographically, Russia is located so that the Poseidon can reach important cities in the United States only through narrowness or simply limited water area, which the enemy either controls now, or can take control with the beginning of the conflict - the English Channel, the Faro-Icelandic barrier, Robson Strait on the Atlantic theater; Bering Strait, the Kuril Passages, the Sangar and Tsushima Straits, the North-West Passage and a number of other narrow straits in the North-West of Canada in the Pacific. At the same time, NATO countries in the United States in the Atlantic, collectively possessing huge naval forces, and Japan in the Pacific theater, with its huge numbers and very powerful anti-submarine forces. In fact, we have only one naval base from which you can go directly into the ocean - Vilyuchinsk. But just there the Americans are conducting very intensive observation of our submarines, and to slip past them with our present state of the Navy is a serious problem.

Currently, the number of ships that can be mobilized by both the US Navy and the allies to fight the underwater threat is hundreds of units. Also, hundreds of units calculated fleet of anti-submarine aircraft, and this is a truly effective and modern aircraft with very experienced crews. The helicopter-carrying amphibious assault ships of the US, NATO, Japan and Australia fleets allow us to deploy hundreds of anti-submarine helicopters into the sea, plus those deployed on destroyers and frigates. The overlap of a few narrows by such forces is quite real. Under the conditions, when some of these places are covered with ice, it is quite possible to mine them with the help of submarines from under water, and try to intercept the drone with them, only later, with a hypothetical failure, “transferring” it to other forces. Again, this task does not look easy, but it also does not look unsolvable. Well, we must understand that some of those cities in the US, about which we say that they are “on the coast”, are really on the “specific” coast - it’s enough, for example, using the Google-card service to see how Seattle is located ( and the largest US Navy base is Kitsap there, nearby), or another naval base - Norfolk.

There it will be even easier to control the narrowness.

On the one hand, the final part of the Poseidon attack can be facilitated where the depth of the sea is sufficient to form an artificial Tsunami. Then he will jerk away from the shore. On the other hand, these places will be under the special scrutiny of the enemy, including with the possible deployment of additional bottom sensors on the ways of approaching them even in peacetime.

Thus, in order to use the Poseidon, the boat of the carrier, like the SSBN, will have to avoid the hunter boat hanging on its tail and survive the raids of the patrol aviation, then the super torpedo will have to leave them, then it will have to break through the comb anti-submarine ships and hydrophone fields in narrows, and in some cases the USA has the opportunity to resort to using low-frequency acoustic “highlight” over these fields, which makes any object under water visible, even completely silent, then erezhit many days hunting on the part of anti-aircraft may slip through minefields, and only then to the drone will be the last defense outline - PLO forces near large cities, breaking through which he will be able to fulfill its task. All this looks, to put it mildly, more complicated than launching a ballistic missile with SSBNs.

So, one wonders how the Poseidons change the military situation at sea in our favor? The fact that they can explode under AUG? But in conditions when nuclear weapons, and even high power, went into action, aircraft carriers will not be our biggest problem, to say the least. In addition, claiming that the Poseidons will heat the AUG, we must abandon the 100 fantasies on the megaton warhead and the initialization of the man-made Tsunami, because it will wash us too - the AUG will strive to be closer to the country under attack even before of war.

There is a feeling that it would be simpler and cheaper to invest in existing NSNFs, to increase the operating voltage ratio and increase the time on duty (this is not particularly difficult, since for many boats the second crews are formed, and, generally speaking, it is not clear what keeps them in the bases), and their anti-submarine and anti-mine support, in training crews of multi-purpose submarines "insuring" SSBN, in exercises for submarine torpedo firing, in modern hydroacoustic countermeasures, in new controlled torpedoes, in contrast zling aircraft and aircraft refueling for them in the interceptor squadron to protect the airspace over the areas of deployment of SSBNs, and complete modernization "Kuznetsov" and its wing, for the same.
In the end, on the Caliber missiles, so that the fleet could work them out at the locations of anti-submarine aviation identified by intelligence.

Instead of something from this list of useful things, we got a thing in ourselves. And worst of all, they are going to spend extra money on it. Thirty-two "Poseidon" is from four new nuclear submarines carrier. Inapplicable in a non-nuclear war. And as vulnerable as now, in the conditions of the collapse of the Navy, the submarines we already have are vulnerable.

The Marine Nuclear Deterrence Force is one of the pillars of our security. Unlike land-based ballistic missiles, submarines, when properly used and properly equipped by combat services, have real secrecy. The enemy, if we organize everything correctly, either will not know at all where the submarine is, or will know approximately, and definitely will not be able to approach it. In a pinch, will not be able to approach all of them and thwart a missile attack completely. The nuclear torpedo "Poseidon" does not increase the potential of the NSNF, but requires large expenditures of public money, which, frankly, no. It is precisely these funds that are probably not enough to reduce the vulnerability of our NSNF to a level at which the Americans will no longer be able to fantasize about disarming attacks on our country. But they will be squandered on Poseidons, which do not reduce this vulnerability per se, and the potential for deterrence does not increase. With all its destructive power (theoretical).

And now what are they cunning about NATO?

Actually, they knew and knew about the project for a very long time, most likely when the tactical-technical assignment for this drone was released, and maybe even earlier, when various research projects were being done on the topic. In any case, the pictures of “the future Russian unmanned nuclear submarine” in the United States were painted before 2015. And a number of parameters knew. Taking into account how many fans of the American way of life among the intelligentsia (including technical) (remember the recent “plums” in the US of information about hypersonic weapons - hopefully, the runner will die in prison in some bad way) expect something the other was very naive. And by a strange coincidence, for Western anti-torpedoes, the defeat of high-speed deep-water targets became a kind of “common place”. Given that such an anti-torpedo is not optimal for defeating “normal” torpedoes. And this is true for CAT, and for MU-90 Hard Kill. Did they agree?

No, just before Vladimir Vladimirovich announced the existence of our miracleRobot out loud, the West already knew everything, and was preparing to intercept these torpedoes. And it's cheap to catch. And this, among other things, may mean that they are really afraid of the use of these devices. This means that they consider the situation when we will launch them very likely, and in the near future. So, they are planning ... well, then think for yourself what they are planning, which will cause the mandatory launch of Poseidons in the foreseeable future. However, it really can be some kind of fatal coincidence.

How, in theory, it is necessary to properly dispose of this miracle weapon? Well, firstly, the money that has already been spent on it, can not be returned. At the same time, it must be admitted that the largest technological breakthrough has been achieved. In the correct version, you need to limit yourself to the number of Poseidon carriers that are already in place or incorporated, especially since those boats and besides the Poseidons are full of tasks of particular importance. At the same time, the drones themselves must, of course, continue to experience and bring to readiness for mass production, but not so much to build it, but in order to develop the received technologies into something useful - for example, we didn’t stop would be a compact low-noise nuclear turbogenerator for diesel submarines. The combination of such a device with a diesel-electric power plant and a lithium-ion battery would make the diesel-electric submarines more autonomous than those of the NPS, at a disproportionately lower price. Of course, such boats would not have been able to replace full-fledged nuclear, but, at least, they would no longer have to stand under the RDP and “beat the charge”, roaring at the whole ocean. This would be an important step in the development of the diesel-electric submarines. Yes, and unmanned combat vehicles with small-sized nuclear power plants - the direction is very promising. Especially armed. And the technological backlog of "Poseidon" may well be used to work on their creation.

And davanut on the United States with the help of several built prototypes is quite possible. Send the CBG to the Carbibe Sea, and it is significant to catch such a “fish” from the water, not far from Florida. The effect in some cases could be quite good - before the meeting of our president with the American one, for example. To not forget with whom he is talking.

But to build a whole fleet of such drones, and carriers for them, as well as refitting existing submarines for this super-weapon (removing them for a long time from service - and for what?) Will be a monstrous mistake. This program received funding in the most difficult years and “ate” a lot of what our Navy is now very short of — with zero, as we see, result. You can not repeat this mistake, replicating and scaling it in a shrinking budget.

Super weapons do not exist and can not be invented. Remember this phrase. I would like to hope that we will remember this history lesson and will not scatter the last money on non-military projects.

Although in the light of the current epidemic completely irrational decisions related to naval construction in the last five to six years, this hope seems very weak.
839 comments
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  1. +1
    17 January 2019 02: 54
    Does the ministry know about the existence of an employee named Timokhin? - unlikely...
    1. 0
      17 January 2019 08: 40
      And how laughing

      Especially in the Main Command of the Navy and in Konashenkov’s department. According to rumors from the Moscow Region, Shoigu was once shown one material - after which it was “cut down” by one respectable publication.

      So they know wink
  2. 0
    17 January 2019 03: 49
    The main mistake in the article is the idea that some kind of torpedo can destroy Poseidon. There are no such torpedoes and there cannot be.
    The aquatic environment differs from the air in that radio waves do not propagate there. Acoustic only. Aiming at a target using an acoustic signal looks similar to aiming a missile based on the target's heat generation. That is, in which direction the target is visible, but the distance is unknown. That is, it is impossible to plot the intended route of the target and move ahead using an infrared guidance head. With a radar you can do this without any problems, since there is a reflected signal and you can determine the distance. The only option for an infrared-guided missile to hit is to either catch up with the target or have at least a comparable speed on a collision course (plus luck). No other way.
    The same goes for acoustic guidance. It is by definition passive.
    And now they explain to us that the adversary has torpedoes that can destroy Poseidon moving at a speed of 100 knots with an endless supply of energy.
    How the torpedoes of the adversaries are going to catch up with him is somehow not revealed.
    1. +1
      17 January 2019 08: 41
      Frankly ignorant comment. There are already weapons capable of reaching Poseidon on a collision course - and I gave you an example in the article.
      1. 0
        17 January 2019 19: 15
        Again. With the help of passive acoustic guidance, a torpedo cannot calculate a course to lead the target's trajectory. It moves towards the noise source to where it is currently located. A meeting between Poseidon and a torpedo is only possible if the courses of the torpedo and Poseidon are strictly on opposite directions. Any angle on a head-on course will result in the torpedo only tracking Poseidon sailing past at great speed. What is the probability that the vector of motion of a randomly launched torpedo will be strictly counter to Poseidon? Negligibly small.
        To destroy Poseidon, a torpedo must be stupidly faster than Poseidon.

        Even with target designation in the air, having a radar on board and having the ability to calculate lead, an anti-aircraft missile must have at least a comparable speed to the target. That is why Daggers with hypersound are too tough for the American SM3 due to the latter’s insufficient speed. And this again - having a oncoming course and altitude and a target-guidance radar with calculation of the expected trajectory.
        1. 0
          27 February 2019 01: 44
          A torpedo with one acoustic signal receiver cannot calculate the lead course. This is true.
          But a system of sonars and detectors on the bottom and on the surface of the sea can calculate such a course and transmit it to the torpedo.
          Those. it is necessary to build a defense system in the water column (with passive and active sonars on the bottom and on ships), as well as an air defense system in the atmosphere (with radar on the ground and on AWACS-type aircraft).
          1. +1
            27 February 2019 04: 53
            The signal can only be transmitted to the torpedo via wire. You can't convey it very far. But you still have to get there. We need spatially oriented hydrophones with a very accurate determination of the bearing of noise. After all, no one knows what accuracy there will be in calculating the trajectory based on noise in spaced hydrophones.
            And this is provided that a single Poseidon moves without changing course. With two Poseidons the task becomes more difficult. The noises will add up. It’s all complicated, and so far the adversary certainly doesn’t have such a defense.
            1. 0
              1 March 2019 01: 04
              There is no such defense yet. Right.
              But suspicious messages from the USA that they are tracking our submarines with good accuracy and efficiency (coupled with clinical nonsense/disinformation that this is supposedly done from the air based on bulges/gravitational anomalies on the surface of the sea - especially during waves like in the Barents Sea!) suggest to the idea that in the technology of hydrophones/hydrophone networks (and processing of data from them) there has finally been some kind of technological/qualitative turning point.
              I don’t see any fundamental reasons/prohibitions for not developing this technology in the direction of creating a continuous “curtain” in the ocean (in the narrowness of the seas/oceans) to detect and track targets at any depth. (And in the direction of increasing the accuracy of torpedoes aimed at identified targets.)
              This is approximately how the “curtains” of air defense/missile defense radars cover the entire thickness of the atmosphere along the perimeters of entire states.
              1. +1
                1 March 2019 02: 28
                Yes, a turning point has occurred. Acoustic detection methods using optical fiber have emerged. For example, in the control of oil and gas production there are such. A looped cable is lowered into the borehole and, upon arrival of the laser beam, the temperature and noise along the entire length of the cable are determined. Instead of a point hydrophone, a hydrophone system with a length of kilometers or even tens of kilometers appeared.
                I am sure that the warriors did not pass by this technology. American for sure because this is their technology. But there is a problem with the signal processing speed. To obtain sane data, you need to make thousands of measurements and run the system for days. To track submarines, instead of conventional hydrophones, such a system is a leap forward. To catch torpedoes at enormous speeds it will not roll.
    2. 0
      17 January 2019 20: 36
      Aiming at a target using an acoustic signal looks similar to aiming a missile based on the target's heat generation. That is, in which direction the target is visible, but the distance is unknown. That is, it is impossible to plot the intended route of the target and move ahead using an infrared guidance head.


      If the bearing on the target is constant, then the torpedo goes to the lead point. It follows from the similarity of “torpedo triangles”.
      1. 0
        18 January 2019 05: 19
        This is if you know the distance to the target. Or the target is moving much slower than the torpedo. What is a triangle without distance?
    3. 0
      18 January 2019 21: 19
      Let’s assume that on a collision course there is no need for an American torpedo to have the same speed as Poseidon. As for the infrared head under water - it seems like nonsense. Will she work there? This is not airborne or an air-to-air missile.
      1. 0
        19 January 2019 23: 13
        You need to read more carefully. The infrared head was cited as an example in the sense of the impossibility of determining the distance to the target. Same as for the acoustic head.
        For some reason, anti-aircraft missiles, which are always supposed to be used on a collision course against the Dagger, need to have the same speed, but a torpedo does not. And this despite the fact that anti-aircraft missiles have a radar and, accordingly, it is possible to calculate the trajectory and lead.
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  5. 0
    17 January 2019 06: 33
    Comrade admiring experts, I apologize, but what caliber is your miracle weapon of retribution: 533, 660 mm? "Bludge" is simply huge. This relates to the question of the carriers of this sophisticated, in my opinion, weapon.
    1. +1
      17 January 2019 08: 42
      It was made to fit a giant special pipe in the nose of the Khabarovsk.
      1. -1
        17 January 2019 12: 49
        In fact, this torpedo can be placed on any ship with a displacement of more than 2000 tons - disguised as a hydrographic, communications, etc., or you can even drop an Il 76 from a transport aircraft.
        1. -2
          23 January 2019 00: 04
          Then drop it from space, what a waste of time.
  6. 0
    17 January 2019 07: 01
    It turns out that I was unable to read the entire article by the Author....just like all the comments from supporters and “opponents” of the article. Maybe partly because it’s “not very interesting”! I already have a definite opinion about the notorious “Poseidons”; and to date there have been no serious arguments refuting it. The opinion is this: “Poseidons” cannot be “miracle weapons” (or “super-weapons...”). By analogy with the comparison of ICBMs and RSDs, “Poseidons” due to certain factors (technological, scientific, technical, economic, production on the “one side” and military-strategic, military operational-tactical reasons on the “other side”) cannot have the qualities (or to the extent) that are attributed to them... and can “pull” at “the best “in case, for the role of RSD, but not ICBMs! Moreover, I personally am inclined to believe that “Poseidons” will not have “global-strategic” significance, but only “operational-strategic” significance in individual regions, but in general, operational-tactical significance in the “global” theater of operations.
  7. 0
    17 January 2019 07: 21
    Question to the author: can a poseid pass under the ice of the North Pole?
    1. -2
      17 January 2019 08: 44
      Yes. After it's finished. But then, in order to reach a significant goal, he needs to force one of the bottlenecks on the list: Robson Strait, English Channel, Bering Strait, Northwest Passage or break through the Faroe-Iceland barrier.

      The chances are near zero. There are no significant targets within the zone limited to these places.
      1. +1
        17 January 2019 12: 52
        There will be no one left to resist Poseidon in these directions - the warheads will arrive faster.
      2. 0
        24 January 2019 22: 59
        Timokhin, have you heard about the concept of “Combat Service”?
  8. 0
    17 January 2019 08: 29
    First. When and if the Poseidons explode off the American coast, we will all be dead. This, in a sense, devalues ​​the investment. In reality, the point of deterrence, both weapons and armed forces, is for us to remain alive, preferably in such numbers that our culture is preserved
    last time the local “gunsmith specialists” threw basins at me when I expressed doubt about the effectiveness of “Poseidon.” Poseidon is a continuation of the “dead hand”

    somehow I don’t want to go with him (the owner (president) is a gentleman), he might take the government with Medvedev, Deripasok, Vekselberg, etc. with him.
    1. 0
      17 January 2019 09: 22
      In Yamantao they will have a chance to survive, but without further prospects.
      Some of us and they will be able to survive, but again, this is unlikely to be possible in order to preserve culture. Radioactive contamination won't give you a chance. The Chinese will have the opportunity to preserve human culture. Maybe the Indians will still survive in the gorges of Tibet, but to do this, like the Chinese, they need to cut down galleries in the mountains. In the following days, months, years, radioactive fallout will not allow people to stay safe in underground shelters. No filters are enough for deactivation, and yet it is still necessary to replenish the power sources - the reserves do not last forever. But the main thing is the air. Gradually, as it is cleared, and by the way, in some places in mountain gorges untouched by radiation it is possible to cultivate the land.
      1. +1
        17 January 2019 10: 02
        This includes the “elite” who will sit in anti-nuclear bunkers and the people lost in the vastness of Siberia, the Far East (from ours), Australia, New Zealand, partially South America, Africa, Asia (from theirs) and Antarctica. a lot of people will survive
        1. 0
          17 January 2019 12: 54
          Half the world will definitely survive.
  9. +2
    17 January 2019 09: 55
    I’m not an expert, but I heard how our super-noisy submarines passed almost under the belly of aircraft carriers. And then there's a torpedo. And the target is a coastline 2 thousand miles long. Intuition suggests that Americans sleep in diapers. And the author offers us.
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  11. +1
    17 January 2019 10: 15
    The goal of superweapons is not to win the war. The purpose of superweapons is to prevent war. Therefore, using it when the war is already underway is ineffective. But, creating it in peacetime for fear of an adversary is more than advisable. Hence the conclusion - comparing Russia with fascist Germany is invalid. Or to put it simply - KG/AM.
  12. +1
    17 January 2019 11: 24
    The most important advantage of Poseidon is its very long range and time spent at sea. It is smaller than a nuclear submarine and more difficult to intercept. There is no crew and can be at sea for many years without entering the base.
    Poseidon, even in peacetime, can take a position off the enemy’s coast and wait there. So it can be used in the first strike.
    1. -5
      17 January 2019 11: 50
      All wrong. Its noise level is at least no less than that of a submarine, the lifetime of the reactor is several days, and the range is not much greater than that of a missile.

      Senseless thing.
      1. +1
        17 January 2019 12: 03
        It seems to me that whoever, in the period 2005-2030, wisely invested in defensive and offensive weapons, who developed thorough concepts for the development of the armed forces, will prevail. Wonder weapons are not about the Russians, they are about the Amers. If for one Zumvolt (royal tiger) we can field 700-800 Poseidons (T-34), then the result of the military conflict is obvious, the miracle-duper Zumvolt will not save.
  13. +5
    17 January 2019 12: 21
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    All wrong. Its noise level is at least no less than that of a submarine, the lifetime of the reactor is several days, and the range is not much greater than that of a missile.

    Senseless thing.

    Particularly touching is the passage about the lifespan of a reactor being several days... It would be advisable to study at school so as not to be embarrassed by statements about the lifespan of a nuclear reactor being several days...
    Diagnosis of liberalism of the brain, aggravated by the lack of schooling...
  14. 0
    17 January 2019 12: 24
    Damn, if the pie man starts sharpening his boots... (or sharpening).
  15. 0
    17 January 2019 15: 25
    First. When and if the Poseidons explode off the American coast, we will all be dead.

    At this moment, the only real way to solve the “American question” should have been not the costs of a new deterrent, in addition to the existing ones, but a political decision to destroy the United States, and to begin preparations for such an operation.

    The main goal "weapons of deterrence" seat restless to the negotiating table, and tearing half the planet to pieces is already a far secondary goal...

    P.S. you can feel the American smell in the text written in Russian letters...
  16. 0
    17 January 2019 15: 43
    Let them pee out of fear.
    While they are busy with this, my grandchildren are growing up.
  17. 0
    17 January 2019 17: 35
    If the Russians have practically declassified all these super weapons, then what weapons do the Russians have that are classified? This is what Americans think
  18. +2
    17 January 2019 17: 39
    Super weapons do not exist and can not be invented. Remember this phrase.

    Tell this to the Indians.
  19. +2
    17 January 2019 18: 23
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    All wrong. Its noise level is at least no less than that of a submarine, the lifetime of the reactor is several days, and the range is not much greater than that of a missile.

    Senseless thing.

    The lifespan of a nuclear reactor has already been answered.
    Why should the noise be greater than that of a submarine? The size and power are much smaller. The depth of travel is no less. The travel speed can be as fast as you want because it goes to the target in peacetime.
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  21. 0
    17 January 2019 18: 46
    The author's approach is not correct. The author is not aware of our doctrine.
    1. 0
      17 January 2019 21: 20
      But I don’t see Poseidon as a strategic weapon. I would consider it as a long-range torpedo against Aathan carriers, etc. Perhaps in a version with a conventional warhead. That's the only way it makes sense. Also, theoretically, this is a good weapon for a first strike, but to do this, the carriers need to be secretly located near the coasts of the United States, which no one will allow us to do. It seems to me that its effectiveness as a weapon of retaliation is useless to discuss.
  22. +1
    17 January 2019 19: 05
    "Superweapons do not exist and they cannot be invented. Remember this phrase." A very controversial statement. For all time - yes. For a certain period of time - still NO. Everything flows, everything changes.
    1. 0
      17 January 2019 23: 35
      "Superweapons do not exist and they cannot be invented. Remember this phrase." A very controversial statement.


      In general, revolutions in military inventions can happen, but historical experience shows that design thought in different countries proceeds almost in parallel. How long, for example, did the Dreadnought, the tank, the space rocket exist as the exclusive of a single country? If the designers of one country have created something extremely unique, but in other countries they cannot reproduce it for many years, this already looks suspiciously like a “wunderwaffe”. Example: the Americans played around with a Mach 5 hypersonic missile and abandoned it because it had no prospects; the Chinese played around with the same Mach 5 missile and abandoned it. In Russia, not just some tests, but already mass production. 10! 26 Mach! It seems that American and Chinese science has not lagged behind Russian science, and they have more funding. Or they're lying about something. Or there is some device that really is max 26, but there are so many accompanying disadvantages that it makes it useless and therefore unnecessary.
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  24. +1
    17 January 2019 20: 37
    Well, the article is well-reasoned and the point of view is expressed. But our Ministry of Defense is not going to make many such monsters, but only a few for particularly dangerous areas for the United States. And not so much money will be spent on Poseidons than on creating strategic submarines, frigates, and corvettes. And a correctly calculated strike from Poseidon will cause damage that a frigate, corvette, or even a cruiser cannot inflict. Noisy, yes, but speed will be given to Poseidon and at the same time something will be done to drown out the reception of such noise by the enemy.
  25. +1
    17 January 2019 22: 18
    Article in the style: “America is cooler, we are all going to die!” But!.. Will those few states of America want to be destroyed, even with a microscopic probability? Will Americans want to live in bunkers for decades? Will they overthrow power at such a possibility of events? This “superweapon” is not created to be used, but to “sober up” the parties to a potential conflict! Even if you are armed to the teeth, but if a gun is pointed at your eye, you will not feel immortal! If you, the author, are confident that you will defeat the enemy, destroy, kill, but lose, say, your legs, will you start a fight to show that you are cool? Hardly!.. So, no matter how coolly and globally armed the United States is, the same “Poseidons” and “vanguards” take into account and are afraid! And this is the main thing, and not that “we will all definitely die”!..
  26. -1
    17 January 2019 23: 02
    The interesting thing is, why does the site administration skip articles that are used to collect information about secret weapons?
    This is what the Ministry itself thinks about these publications

    “...The Ministry of Defense emphasized that they understand the increased interest in unique weapons, but will not allow themselves to be drawn into a discussion in order for foreigners to obtain secret information.
    The department recalled that all data about the complex has already been announced, and called on the media to “be attentive to the deliberately provocative statements of various pseudo-experts.”
    “The ultimate “beneficiaries” of this kind of discussion are far from being in Russia and will use any methods, including the artificial creation of “information occasions,” to obtain the information they need in order to weaken the defense capability of our country,” the Ministry of Defense concluded.... “
  27. 0
    18 January 2019 12: 30
    Yes, the path of the Third Reich towards the “Vanderwaffe” is a conditional dead end if you look at it from the point of view of an abstract result. But the essence of such systems as Poseidon is completely different; their task is deterrence. And unlike the systems of the Third Reich, these systems do not imply unambiguous use. They create another potential response factor, making it more difficult for the enemy to decide to strike. From this point of view, is it worth spending money on such systems? If there are such “partners” - definitely yes! The brain has stopped spending the night there since the 90s, and the only limiting factor is the fear of a retaliatory, irresistible blow.
    1. 0
      23 January 2019 00: 09
      The fact of the matter is that as a deterrent system it is worse than missiles.
      1. 0
        23 January 2019 07: 45
        He is no better and no worse. This assessment is not very appropriate here. It is simply another deterrent tool in the nuclear triad, and given the published characteristics, it is a very good tool. At the moment there is no answer to it and it is unlikely to appear in the near future.
  28. 0
    18 January 2019 15: 19
    Quote: Nehist
    Heated discussion!!! After reading everything I created an image of this device!!! Poseidon has a powerful sonar, thruster water-jet propulsors, ballast tanks, 3 or even 4 TA powerful means of communication..... N-yes.... With such gadgets, it will have a displacement of 2000-2500 tons wassat
    P. S The analysis was carried out based on the opinions of all those who claim that Poseidon is a very necessary and useful device.
    P.S.S I support the author

    Historical edit:
    On June 3, 1571, during the Great Crimean raid on Russian lands, the army of Khan Devlet-Girey broke through to Moscow. The Tatars plundered and burned the capital of the kingdom of Moscow, which burned out almost completely; only the Kremlin survived. Having taken large booty and the great army, the khan returned to Crimea.
    In 1586, Russian master Andrei Chokhov, by order of Tsar Fyodor Ioanovich, cast the Tsar Cannon in bronze. The Tsar Cannon never fired, but the Tatar raids on Moscow stopped. The question is, who needed a gun that was known to not fire? But the fact that such a weapon appeared in Rus' spoke about the level of development of the flying business, and, consequently, about the industrial capabilities of the then Russian state. Maybe someday Poseidon will take its rightful place in the museum. And without him, there may not be a museum.
    1. 0
      22 January 2019 17: 37
      This is not a gun, relative cal. and D. trunk.
      And the version is cool.))) I also have a version of another “useful” thing (By analogy, one did not fire, the second did not ring).
      “In 1736, troops under the command of Minich stormed Perekop and occupied the capital of the Khanate, Bakhchisarai, but lost almost half of the army as a result of disease.
      But Anna Ioannovna, foreseeing this, decided to cast the Tsar Bell so that with its ringing it would scare away germs and save the army from disease. But the bell was damaged in 1737, so the soldiers were still sick."

      PS. There was also one “useless guy” there - Tsar Bomb, who was hit by his own people once. They brought it to Moscow a couple of years ago.
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  31. 0
    18 January 2019 20: 02
    What a smart author. Probably already an academician
  32. -3
    18 January 2019 21: 14
    Why is Russia so confident that the United States or other countries cannot create something similar? After all, for example, “Caliber” began to boast 3-4 years ago. And the Tomahawks have been in service since the late 80s. Moreover, in incomparable quantities and hundreds of pieces tested in local wars. There are no superweapons. There will always be opposition.
    1. 0
      27 February 2019 01: 52
      The Americans already have an answer: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/02/15/orca/
      Already floats, unlike Poseidon
  33. Egg
    +1
    18 January 2019 21: 50
    They wrote so much, the computer refuses to display all this crap....
    There is no need to present pin@dos as almighty deities, there are so many holes in the ocean that one can say that it is one continuous hole, a whole fleet will be lost there, not only Poseidon. Have you already learned how to find missing ships? Remind me, have you already found Malaysian Boeing? Although the route is known there and the plane itself was tracked by radar. Every year hundreds of ships disappear without a trace around the world and their fate is unknown. And the Americans will rush to look for Poseidon if their route is not leaked to them.
  34. +1
    19 January 2019 16: 31
    "...Poseidon" is distinguished by its small size compared to submarines. For this reason, its detection by radar methods, which were mentioned earlier, will apparently be difficult. However, if you believe the information about the gigantic speed of the torpedo, then it should be recognized that its detection and relatively accurate localization will be quite possible using acoustic methods - the noise from a torpedo traveling at a speed of 100 knots will be heard from great distances..."

    After that I stopped reading, the author called “Timokhin” seems to be another specialist in the distribution of sounds in the form, and in the detection of underwater objects laughing
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  36. 0
    20 January 2019 16: 48
    and this ethyl alcohol knows at what depth this object will move in order to talk about the possibility of its detection and what it is going to use to hit it even if it detects it
  37. 0
    21 January 2019 17: 34
    Did the author even graduate from school?
  38. 0
    21 January 2019 18: 39
    He is really useless, since those states to which he will sail and convey greetings from Russia will no longer receive an answer! A gift of several tens of megatons is a valuable gift, and one cannot refuse it.
  39. 0
    22 January 2019 21: 56
    I’m reading and I’m going crazy, armchair troops have gathered for a war - complete idiocy.
  40. 0
    23 January 2019 18: 59
    Are there no super weapons? - Tell about this to the Japanese, contemporaries of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. After them, Japan could of course still fight, despite the lack of raw materials and highly qualified military personnel. But morally..., oops, I couldn’t do it anymore. The very thought of the enemy using superweapons with impunity already paralyzes the will, if not the will to resist, then certainly the will to win. No chance, as they say. In addition, the “Atlantic” civilization is not Japan. The gut is thin. The union of “American compote” and “European summer residents” - there is no place for mass heroism there. Therefore, the fact of the presence of Poseidon is a very effective thing. Let me remind you of the “Khrushchev bluff” of the 1960s, with the catastrophically small number and primitiveness of the first ICBMs. - It worked 100%. And it will work!
  41. +1
    24 January 2019 14: 30
    The author of the book is disingenuous or naive. A strike on the coasts in the form of a radioactive tsunami wave will lead to the almost complete impossibility of economic recovery, even if the SGA can preventively eliminate the possibility of a response from the air and from space from the Russian Federation. Here they are checkmated in three moves. Doesn't matter The answer is when will we be gone? For the adversary, his assets in the SGA and Japan, in Europe, are important. Deprive him of this, he will disappear. Will Papuans rule the world after the Last War? Naturally. The main thing is not to let the adversary lead them on the basis of the strength of the preserved economy.
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  43. 0
    25 January 2019 02: 11
    I don’t even want to read to the end. Another nonsense on the topic: everything is lost and there is no point in us doing anything.
  44. 0
    25 January 2019 11: 45
    Dear, maybe you can discuss the laws of the Russian Federation and correct the constitution? This project was made by the government and it’s not for you to condemn it. Why are the liberals? Our overseas friends are only criticizing.
  45. 0
    25 January 2019 22: 35
    Quote: Sasha_rulevoy
    To attack one Tiger, a platoon of five Shermans was required. Three distracted him from the front, and two went to the rear and shot him from behind.
    - It would seem, what does the Sherman have to do with it if we are talking about the T-34? Not if you think that Americans are #trupamizavalili, then I have nothing against it. Otherwise, to attack one Tiger, one Thunderbolt or Lightning is required.
    Quote: Sasha_rulevoy
    (source: diaries of General J.S. Patton Jr.)
    - the proof undoubtedly inspires.
  46. -1
    9 February 2019 01: 35
    I wonder by what principle Poseidon’s navigation system is arranged? Probably inertial? In principle, it would be possible to install the same navigation system on an earth moving machine. Plus a nuclear power reactor and a hydrogen warhead. And in case of war, launch them towards the enemy. How do you guys idea?
  47. +1
    15 February 2019 12: 01
    Thank God that decisions on strategic nuclear forces are made by specialists, and not by the authors of articles.
    Times are changing, and using World War II tanks as an example to describe nuclear weapons of the 21st century.
    It's a mess in the author's head. What I wanted to say is not clear. Do we need Poseidon or not? In any country in the world, they would say without hesitation that more is needed, even those who have no access to the sea.

    Some of us have doubts.
  48. 0
    27 February 2019 01: 50
    Quote: 1Alexandr1
    but they will not allow themselves to be drawn into a discussion in order for foreigners to obtain secret information.

    Come on!
    That first mention of the “Status” project, when the diagram of this super-torpedo appeared on TV, is such an obvious leak, designed to intimidate the enemy, that it’s even funny.
    The Americans also have a similar thing, but no one is interested in it yet: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/02/15/orca/
  49. 0
    1 March 2019 00: 52
    Quote: Telur
    Remind me, have you already found Malaysian Boeing? Although the route is known there and the plane itself was tracked by radar.

    Naturally, flight MH370 was tracked (it couldn’t hide from radars with such a size and at such an altitude), but all the surrounding countries are silent, as if they had taken water into their mouths... They refer to secrecy or simply say that their radars “didn’t see” " for this purpose (with a very important caveat: “in their airspace” - as if their radars fundamentally do not scan anything beyond their own space!).
    Could this be? Any air defense officer understands that this cannot happen.
    Conclusion - all countries benefit from keeping silent about the true trajectory of that goal (some were forced, some were bought). You can guess how you can buy China (which lost a bunch of citizens on that flight) if you look at all the diplomatic changes during that year, especially the UN decisions in favor of China (in a region very far from China). One solution is simply surprising in its sensationalism and obscurity.
  50. 0
    3 March 2019 00: 31
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    They will look at seismographs, for a couple of seconds they will understand that it was a nuclear explosion, take a water sample, determine what isotopes are there, and then they will know not only in which country this bomb was made, but also in which reactor plutonium was developed.

    If they make it before the waves of the 32 tsunami cover them...
  51. 0
    3 March 2019 00: 40
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Well, yes, it is impossible to keep nuclear charges at sea anywhere in advance except on boats and ships; the USSR and the USA long ago agreed to a ban on such a measure.

    Of course, the contract is the most important thing. This is such paper - paper for all papers!
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  53. 0
    10 March 2019 20: 40
    I would like to hope that we will remember this lesson of history and will not waste the last of our money on projects of no military significance.

    Naive lad. Nobody will remember anything. “History only teaches that it teaches nothing.”...
  54. 0
    26 March 2019 18: 01
    Money is just paper
  55. 0
    21 September 2019 09: 28
    The author contradicts himself at some points: “we could launch a preventive strike and then neutralize the SSBN,” and then “the deplorable state of the submarine fleet, the locked exits to the ocean.” Then how to neutralize enemy nuclear submarines if they have a serious numerical advantage?
    Next: most of the strategic warheads are on SLBMs. And they will strike, regardless of the destruction on the US mainland.
    Strange logic: since there are plans to knock out uber-torpedoes, that means they are planning a situation in which they will be used! We must prepare for war!
    Let's move on to the Americans: “The Russians are trying to create an air defense system capable of detecting Stealth systems at a sufficiently long distance.” So they are planning a situation in which we will have to use them against them! They want to attack us first!”
    Paranoia does not lead to good things, especially when it is mutual.
    It is normal for the military to seek countermeasures against existing weapons.
    Moreover, it is they (the West) who consider the leadership of the Russian Federation not entirely adequate. A number of senior officials allowed themselves to make corresponding statements; Patrushev even wrote a work about “de-escalation using nuclear escalation.” In which we were talking about the use of nuclear weapons first in a local/regional conflict, as a means of terror, hoping that the (morally corrupt and stupid) opponent will immediately surrender and not use nuclear weapons in response.
  56. 0
    6 June 2020 10: 59
    What kind of nonsense, author??? You don’t understand anything, don’t get involved in military issues, you don’t need a lot of intelligence to screw up Posedon. He also compares us with the Germans... You just need to envy less, your America will disappear if Posedon comes...
  57. 0
    25 October 2020 20: 32
    but they will have to tear up their warheads to destroy the silos at the surface of the earth, and this will cause radioactive contamination of such strength

    Possible contamination is not even close to Chernobyl (too little active substance), in addition, most strategic military facilities are located far from populated areas.
  58. 0
    6 March 2023 20: 15
    Hmm... I'm SHOCKED!!! It turns out that the Americans gave us another “Neutron weapon” or even “Star Wars”, which we fell for at one time like fools and ruined our economy. And now, probably 10-20 billion American money has already been destroyed for the next FAA...And what will happen next?
  59. 0
    6 March 2023 20: 50
    Compared to what we currently spend on the money allocated for the fleet, the implementation of such a project as Poseidon is completely justified. As for us, regarding the listed interception capabilities, it is necessary for the fleet and the US Army as a whole to work like a clock, and they are already having problems with this. So, in order to stop this threat, they will have to spend effort, money, simulate different situations and be more unsure of the result obtained than if Russia did not have these funds!
  60. 0
    25 March 2023 10: 45
    Indeed...1 -No one will launch Poseidons from the Russian coast. 2- if a weapon was announced in the media, it means it was adopted several years ago. 3 - probably a couple or three Poseidons lie at the bottom, where the depth is more than 300 meters, or in underwater grottoes or caves off the coast of the USA and are waiting for a signal... and the color of Poseidon is not yellow, as in cartoons, but the color of the bottom. So it is quite difficult to detect it - if the Americans “lost” a Russian nuclear submarine in the Mediterranean Sea in 2014 or 2015, then Poseidon is three times smaller in size - it will probably be difficult to detect it somewhere deeper ...