Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia

1 049
Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia 780 years ago, on the night of 20 on 21 December 1237, the troops of Batu stormed Ryazan. The "Tatar-Mongol" invasion began. We should know and remember that the fake about the “Mongols from Mongolia” was launched by Catholic Rome - the then “command post” of the Western community.

Hordes of Batu attacked Russia, took Ryazan, ruined the Ryazan principality, the invasion of other Russian lands began, cities and villages burned, fierce battles were fought - all this historical truth. The horde of the Great Khan Prince Batu prevailed over fragmented Russia, where most of the princes "pulled a blanket" over themselves. The fragmentation of Russia did not allow the gathering of a common army, which could repel the invasion of the steppes.



At the same time, we must remember that the myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was launched by the papal spy Plano Carpini and other agents of Rome. No Mongols from Mongolia ever reached Russia. It was simply impossible - a huge army of hundreds of thousands of warriors and even more horses could not be fed. Yes, the Mongols in this period simply did not correspond to the great conquerors who decided to conquer the whole "universe." They were at a low stage of development - the expansion of tribal relations; they had neither military-economic potential, nor human resources, nor the corresponding drive.

As you know from history, Great empires and powers are created by adding up several factors: 1) military and economic potential, the ability to expose, arm and supply a powerful army; 2) advanced technology, military revolution, for example, domestication of a horse and its use in military affairs, iron weapon, Macedonian phalanx, Roman legions, etc .; 3) demographic factor - the conquering people must have the appropriate size in order to expose a large army and control the conquered space; 4) passionarity is a great idea, mission, ability to go to death for a great cause.

For example, these factors have the current American empire - the “world gendarme”: the first economy of the world and the most powerful military-industrial complex, the armed forces controlling a large part of the planet; advanced developments in the military field; a significant population - more than 325 million people (third place in the world); American messianism - the construction of the American world order, the protection of "democracy" and "human rights". In the past, similar factors can be identified in the Soviet Union (Red Empire), the Russian Empire, the Second and Third Reichs (Germany), and the Roman Empire. Another example is the empire of Alexander the Great: the military and financial reforms of Tsar Philip created the military-economic potential for conquest, the Macedonian phalanx was a revolution in military affairs; Alexander and his warriors were real passionaries, ready to overcome fire and water for the sake of their goal.

Thus, a handful of Mongolian shepherds and hunters, who had neither military-industrial base and organization, nor the corresponding number and fighting spirit, could in no way conquer the Rurikovich empire, even fragmented. No great leader, such as Temujin-Genghis Khan, would be able to create an invincible invasion army capable of crushing a number of strong states, conquering China, and fighting to Central Europe from small and half-wilder clans that do not have the appropriate technological and production base.

Iron discipline, the decimal system of organization of the troops, the great archers and horsemen all this already. In particular, in the Russian squads. Since ancient times, the Russian squad and rati were divided into dozens, hundreds, thousands and darkness (10 thousand fighters). Russian complex bow was much more powerful and long-range of the famous English bow.

"Mongols" and "Tatars" - representatives of the Mongoloid race, who subjugated a significant part of Eurasia, simply did not exist. However, there was an ancient Scythian-Siberian world of the Rus-pagans, inheriting the traditions of many millennia, going back to the times of the Aryans and Hyperboreans. These were the heirs of the oldest, having its origins in the very beginning of the white race, the northern civilization. From the legendary Hyperborea, the Aryan world and the Great Scythiaoccupying a vast territory from the Pacific Ocean, the borders of China, India and Persia to the Baltic and the Black (Russian) Sea. Actually, the Russian civilization and the Russian superethnos, as a direct heir of the ancient northern tradition, still occupy most of this territory. The spiritual, cultural and military impulses of this northern civilization led to the birth and development of Ancient Persia, India (they still remember their northern homeland), China and other civilizations.

Scythian-Siberian Rus in anthropological (white skin, bright eyes, tall), cultural (common traditions, customs, faith, material culture, including weapons and combat skills), economic relations were direct relatives of the Rusam who lived in Ryazan, Vladimir -Suzdal, Novgorod and Kiev and Galician Russia. Before the West destroyed the Slavorian tribes of Central Europe (Porussia-Prussia, Germany, Austria, Northern Italy), they were also part of a huge super-ethnos Rus, a single ethno-cultural and linguistic community.

The peculiarity of the Scythian-Siberian world of the Rus was that they led semi-nomadic (developed animal husbandry) for thousands of years and at the same time the agricultural way of life. They also kept the pagan faith. True, the Russes of Vladimir-Suzdal, Novgorod Russia, for the most part, were still double-believers, retaining many pagan beliefs and rituals.

Only this huge fragment of the Great Scythia - the Scythian-Siberian world, which had a thousand-year history, a powerful military production base, a considerable number, and fighting spirit, could put out a strong army, which once again shook the world. It was they who conquered Central Asia, China, defeated and subjugated another fragment of the Great Scythia - the Polovtsy (they also were not “Mongoloids”, but typical Northern Caucasians), the Volgars-Bulgarians (Tatars), invaded Russia, and then moved into Europe. The horde is Rod, Rada, tumen - darkness, the word Khan comes from "Kohang, Kokhany," beloved, respected. "

The so-called "Mongols" did not bring to Russia a single Mongolian word and not a single skull of a representative of the Mongoloid race. "Mongols" in Russia was not. "Tatar-Mongols", Polovtsians and Russes of Ryazan, Vladimir and Kiev were representatives of a single super-ethnos. Therefore, later, when the administrative center of the Eurasian Empire moved from Saray to Moscow, the vast majority of the population of the Horde simply became Russian. Since there were no anthropological, indigenous linguistic and cultural differences between Russians from Moscow and Kiev and the Horde. If at the time of the Golden Horde, the population of the Horde and Russia was approximately equal, then after the fall of the Horde Empire, most of its population (former Polovtsians) became Russian. At the same time, the Russians did not receive Mongoloid features (Mongoloid features are dominant), nor Mongolian words.

It should be remembered that the war was, the battles of the Russians of Ryazan, Vladimir, Chernigov and Kiev and the pagans of the Scythian-Siberian world were tough. It was a terrifying scramble, Big Strife. So only Rus can fight. Prince Batu won this war. At the same time, they both fought and framed, as happened with Prince Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky and Baty and his son, were related (as before with the Polovtsy - they were their own, not strangers), spoke the same language, quarreled again, fought and put up. Later, and completely mixed. Some of the Russo-Scythians adopted Orthodoxy, another settled in the Golden Horde, Central Asia and China — the princely and imperial dynasties of the local tribes gave it to the local tribes (all this happened before, in the times of Great Scythia).

The fact that Western historians falsifiers called the Great Empire of Genghis Khan, in fact, was the Great Empire of the Rus. They began to rewrite history a long time ago, not in the 20th century, when Westerners, for example, made the revision of the Great War to their advantage. Historians of the Romano-Germanic world, chroniclers of the Roman Catholic Church, historians of the East Roman (Byzantine) and Roman empires copied history. Rome, the most ancient “command center” of governing the West, is the real center for distorting the history of mankind. The masters of the West cannot recognize that Russia-Russia, the Russian super-ethnos are the direct heirs and guardians of the most ancient northern civilization of humanity. This is a question of the “big game”, of geopolitics - the many thousands-year struggle for the right to be the “king of the mountain” - the owner of the planet. Do not recognize it in Japan and China, hiding traces of an ancient civilization. Only in India they say directly that their ancestors of the aria came from the north, from Russia. That Russians and white Indians are descendants of one great race. Only Russians are descendants of those who remained on a common ancestral homeland, retaining their language and physical attributes. And the Indians "turned black" in the south. However, it was the Indians who preserved the ancient Vedic mythology, and India is a kind of "reserve" of our ancient traditions and customs. Hence the spiritual affinity of Russians and Hindus.

The masters of the West distort world history, replacing the true history with fakes, destroy and hide the true monuments of the past, stick out and expand the chronological framework of the “historical nations” - the British, Germans, French, Italians, Jews, etc. At the same time, they cut and distort the history of Slavs and Russ -Russian, pesting the myths of "wildness", "inferiority", "inferiority", "secondary" of Russia, which is always supposedly borrowed everything from the West or the East, etc. This is an information war. And the story plays a leading role in it. Managing history allows you to "program" the course of events for centuries to come. Even create new “peoples”, like “Ukrainians”, who are Russian, but turn into a “independent” people separate from the Russians.

Ruined the Great Empire of the Rus new conceptual and ideological sabotage. In the south, they began to introduce Islam, in which part of the elite elite was interested. This was the main cause of the split, unrest and further disintegration. Islam, which originated in the Semitic environment, introduced into the society of Indo-Europeans-Aryans, the unusual beginnings and customs, leading to the degeneration and degeneration of the marginal families of the Rus. The most striking example is Iran (“the state of the Aryans”). Persia - Indo-European, whose Aryan population was forced to convert to Islam. As a result, Semitization (Arabization) and Islamization of one of the ancient Aryan civilizations occurred.

However, the empire of Genghis Khan did not die. Northern civilization, as it was more than once in the past, took a new form. The control center shifted from the Horde to Moscow. There was a merger of European and Scythian-Siberian Rus. This made Russia a continental empire, from ocean to ocean. And Russia again challenged the masters of the West. The Big Game continues.

Thus, there were no “Mongols from Mongolia” in Russia. Clan-hordes of Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, stretching from the Northern Black Sea coast to the Altai and Sayans, including Mongolia, came to European Russia. The ancestors of the current Mongols were then at a low stage of development, were hunters, cattlemen, did not have the military-industrial, demographic and cultural potential for great conquests. Rus-Scythians were Caucasians, Aryans-Rus - Rus Pagan, Asian. In fact, two passionary nuclei of a single superethnos of the Rus, the European and the Asian, collided. Two parts of the Great Scythia, the ancient northern civilization, which existed for thousands of years from the Pacific Ocean to the Varangian and Russian (Black) seas, the Carpathians, from the Arctic Ocean to the borders of China, India and Persia.

It is later that the southern genera of the Rus will be Islamized, subjected to assimilation by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Semitic peoples of Asia. But in the XIII century the Rus-Scythians came to Russia, and not the “Mongols” or the Turks. And as we know from history, the most fierce, fierce battles are internecine when a brother rises against a brother. The battle was fierce, many cities and villages were turned to ashes, many thousands of people were killed.

But every cloud has a silver lining. At first, European Russia became part of a huge empire - the Golden Horde. Then, with the degradation, destruction of the Horde, inspired by our external enemies, its collapse, the new center of the Eurasian Empire, the Ruses, matured. The empire of Rurikovich turned under Ivan the Terrible into the Eurasian Russian Empire. The Russians again united the vast territory of the ancient northern civilization into a single state. The descendants of the Horde russians became part of a single super-ethnos of the Rus. Russia became the heir of the ancient super-civilization. The West could not get dominance on the planet, and the war was continued.

To be continued ...
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  1. +2
    21 December 2017 16: 41
    Quote: Oleg Vatnik
    Few people can tell the story of the Second World War, especially in the West.

    Check out the Osprey publishing website...
  2. +3
    21 December 2017 16: 47
    I said this back in school when I was studying. I asked the teacher a question and gave the answer myself. - Why do we not have Mongoloid features after so many years of yoke? Got a rating of two. It was a glorious year 1983.)
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 17: 07
      The yoke is just a vassal dependence of Rus' on the Horde. The Mongols came here only to collect tribute and slaughter a village or two.
      1. +4
        21 December 2017 18: 56
        And villages were slaughtered only when Yasa was violated. To which the Slavs quickly realized - do not break the laws of the conquerors (by the way, very tolerant for that time) - everyone will be safe.
    2. +1
      24 December 2017 04: 47
      Humane teacher because for such an answer maximum 1.
  3. +5
    21 December 2017 17: 05
    “an army of hundreds of thousands of warriors” - and not a single serious historian claims this. 30-50 thousand maximum.
    "passionarity" - greetings from Gumilyov.
    “a bunch of Mongolian shepherds and hunters” - even Gumilyov did not write such nonsense.
    “I couldn’t conquer China” - that is, the Jewish Masons also falsified Chinese and Persian history. Reptilians!
    “These were the heirs of the most ancient northern civilization, which had its origins in the very origins of the white race. From the legendary Hyperborea, the Aryan world and Great Scythia” - From the Heart to the Sun!
    “Only in India they say it directly” - Here, preferably with names and diagnoses.
    “Rome, the oldest “command post” for the control of the West” - So wait, wasn’t Rome founded by the Russian-Etruscans?
    Result: This is definitely not a printout of the next issue of “Territory of Delusions” from the REN TV channel?
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 17: 53
      Quote: Tired
      Result: This is definitely not a printout of the next issue of “Territory of Delusions” from the REN TV channel?

      History is a complicated thing, sometimes it turns out this way...
      Mavro Orbini "Slavic Kingdom" was first published in 1601. in Italy... banned by the Catholic Church... read
      1. 0
        21 December 2017 19: 13
        Where in the “Slavic Kingdom” are the Slavic Aryans described?
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 19: 47
          Quote: Tired
          Where in the “Slavic Kingdom” are the Slavic Aryans described?


          1) Have you read this book?
          2) And the article is about whether there was a yoke, and how does it agree with this book?
          3) Yes, and your quote was given in order to indicate how well the off-history agrees with reality...
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 20: 22
            I read it, but diagonally.
            An article about the Aryan Slavs, who are the ideal of the white race (not even Caucasoids, but the white race - Semites, Gypsies and other Untermenschs do not count), who ruled the Uber Empire for thousands of years and then the Romanovs came and rewrote the history of most of the states of Eurasia.
            The work of the abbot of the Benedictine monastery and a man saddened by the situation of his people, Mavro Orbini, is consistent with the results of modern research only in particulars.
            1. +2
              21 December 2017 20: 38
              I don’t understand... the statement that there was a yoke is this particular?
              1. +1
                21 December 2017 21: 36
                Spoiler: in general, most of it is about the legendary origin of the Slavs according to Orbini himself. He mixes up the Huns, Goths and other Avars and declares them Slavs. But he literally has no Aryanism, India, Vedas or wars with China at all. In addition, he pays a lot of attention to his homeland and the Balkans in general. But the Tatars are (suddenly!) enemies of Rus', which (suddenly!) is one of the heirs of the Moravian state. At the same time, he, referring to Enea Silvio, declares them to be a certain ancient Slavic tribe that immediately migrated from Scandinavia to the steppes.
                1. +2
                  21 December 2017 23: 54
                  And who says that this is the ultimate truth... people have processed a huge amount of information, and not always fair... and what gets mixed up, there is a reason... a simple example with language, the closer the language is to the original meaning words, the more ancient it is... otherwise Spain, Anglo-Saxon linguists still don’t understand where most of their words came from... unlike back... or you don’t take into account the logic of the formation of words... it was formed the word football is two words, and it seems no one in England minds)))
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. +2
    21 December 2017 17: 31
    I think supporters of the Tatar-Mongol yoke should read the book of a Catholic priest Mavro Orbini "Slavic Kingdom""- was first published in 1601 in Italy... for me, it does not add up to this fact, the fact of the yoke...
    1. +1
      22 December 2017 12: 03
      For... their Orbini, they completely hesitated at the word. Yes, they read, read, and read PSRL and much more. But you seem to have stopped there. And good. Don't read anything else. In much knowledge there is much sadness!
      1. +2
        25 December 2017 18: 03
        Is it okay that PSRL was first published under Nicholas the First? Nicholas the First loved order in everything and demanded its strict implementation.
        Everything would be fine if not for one “but”. Having ascended the throne (for which he had not prepared, so much was unknown to him), Nicholas the First discovered a complete mess in Russian Legislation. After familiarizing himself with the situation and realizing that all his predecessors, starting with Peter the Great, were engaged in the codification of the laws of the Russian Empire and all without much success, Nicholas decided to change the order of systematization. Without fundamentally abandoning the possible drafting of codes - acts implying the development of new legal norms - the emperor considered it necessary to first collect and put in order existing laws. Thus, the primary legislative task was the development of codes of laws. In addition, the emperor decided to take the matter of compiling codes under his direct jurisdiction, abolishing the Commission for Compiling Laws. For this purpose, a special division was created within His Imperial Majesty's Own Chancellery, which later became known as the Second Department.
        In 1828, at the proposal of the Academy of Sciences, by order of Nicholas I, an Archaeographic Expedition was established, which was entrusted with the collection of various sources on Russian history. To publish the collected acts, the Archaeographic Commission was created in 1834. One of its important tasks was the systematic publication of Russian chronicles in the PSRL series.
        However, we know that for publication, Nicholas I instructed his Secretary of State, Count D. Bludov, to create unified images (!) of Russian archival documents.

        So, are you sure that when reading PSRL you are reading exactly “those chronicles”, and not materials processed in the Second Department of His Imperial Majesty’s Own Office?
  6. 0
    21 December 2017 17: 42
    Everything is true, but it seems to me that changes in our history began in 1613, with the arrival of the Romanovs. Perhaps the Poles were not expelled from Moscow in 1612?
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. +3
    21 December 2017 17: 55
    capture of Leipzig by the Tatars. Where are the Tatars here?
    1. 0
      21 December 2017 17: 59
      Quote: akendram
      capture of Leipzig by the Tatars. Where are the Tatars here?

      When was this miniature painted?
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 23: 17
        Quote: RUSS
        Quote: akendram
        capture of Leipzig by the Tatars. Where are the Tatars here?

        When was this miniature painted?

        the Tatars are those on the left
        1. 0
          24 December 2017 09: 19
          On the left, of course. Typical oriental weapons. Experts will confirm that the site is full of them.
    2. +1
      21 December 2017 18: 54
      Look how they painted Christ and the Romans at this time? Where are the Romans in those illustrations?
    3. +2
      21 December 2017 21: 30
      14th century miniature. Dear Akendram confused Leipzig, where the Mongols did not reach, with the battle of Legnica where the Polish-German army of Henry the Pious suffered a terrible defeat. And the author, as he drew it, drew it according to his own understanding, especially since he had never even seen a Mongol.
    4. +2
      21 December 2017 22: 06
      Quote: akendram
      .Where are the Tatars?

      Somewhere behind, behind the backs of the Mordovians (Mokshas). As Matthew of Paris says, “on the path ahead of them are certain tribes called Mordans, who indiscriminately destroy the people they meet.” We are talking about the army of Batu’s vassal, the Kanazor Puresh.
    5. +1
      22 December 2017 09: 22
      ..in those days - Tatar = horse warrior.. Tatars - cavalry. Chi sho-glazov nema?...
    6. +1
      22 December 2017 12: 05
      Where else are these pictures? This one wanders from one article to another and that’s it! ONE PICTURE. Show a lot. From different manuscripts, over different years. And there are few drunken monks there... One source is not a source!
    7. +1
      22 December 2017 13: 00
      With such skill as an artist, you wouldn’t recognize a native folder, let alone a Mongolian....
  9. +8
    21 December 2017 17: 55
    I would like to remind all “expert” historians that at the beginning of the 13th century the Mongols conquered Khorasan and China, which stood at an unspeakably higher stage of development than the then disunited, weak Russia. That is, the Russian principalities were “like 2 fingers” for the Mongols.. ..."At the same time, it is worth considering that the Mongols dealt very mercifully with state entities that surrendered to their mercy - the entire previous structure of power was preserved, right down to the rulers. One thing was required of the vanquished - tribute and submission. But those who disobeyed faced merciless punishment!! !!An example of this is the Mongol yoke in Russia. Yes, it seems like a yoke, but the Russians saw the Mongols only when they collected tribute (and then as observers) or when they rebelled against this tribute. The result is that the Tatar-Mongol yoke in Rus' COULD NOT HAVE BEEN -at that time there were no other relations other than conquest between the strong and the weak.
  10. +1
    21 December 2017 18: 05
    recourse It’s also interesting to maintain a gigantic army for conquest for many years and for what? conquer impoverished Eastern Europe and extort a pitiful tribute that, even in a thousand years, will not pay for the costs of maintaining the gigantic army that participated in the conquest of impoverished Eastern Europe. Dead end.
    1. +3
      25 December 2017 17: 37
      For the sake of the national Mongolian idea-fix. Mongols were born and died for centuries, dreaming of going far to the West, finding Ryazan there and burning it. And only the genius of the great “Genghis Khan” allowed the Mongols to realize their age-old dream!!!
  11. +8
    21 December 2017 18: 08
    No continuation please, even a brief glance at this opus is enough. Where do all these Old Believers come from? How do they even make friends with their minds? There is so much evidence of this invasion both in Rus' and other countries that it would seem there is nothing to talk about...
    You can only ask 30 questions to the author about this article, to which he will not give an answer, but why, it’s unlikely to penetrate his armor, on the contrary, he will also begin to prove that the earth is flat and the Russians founded Jerusalem))
    1. +3
      22 December 2017 18: 16
      Veterans of World War II are still alive, but there are already so many different rumors about it request
  12. +7
    21 December 2017 18: 10
    Honestly, I don’t know how to react to such an article. If the article is a joke, then it was a success, but if it is serious, then I feel sorry for those who fall for it. Which Aryans, which Hyperboreans? After mentioning these characters, the article finally becomes humorous.
    1. 0
      25 December 2017 17: 49
      There are facts. For example, documented and published studies of the genotype of Slavic, European and Asian peoples, various archaeological finds. And there are interpretations of History by contemporaries and descendants... At all times they “defended candidate’s and doctoral theses”... fulfilled someone’s order... or popularized their fabrications. What to believe more - everyone is free to choose for themselves. You also need to remember: COMMON SENSE IS REQUIRED IN ANY CASE.
      PS “Forgetting the beneficiary” is also not recommended. This is one of the foundations of ANY HONEST “investigation-research”.
  13. +7
    21 December 2017 18: 18
    Rare nonsense. Where does this stream of consciousness come from?
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. +2
    21 December 2017 18: 40
    Something in this article reeked of the German Ebert Foundation. The same articles about the Battle of Kulikovo, the desecration of Ivan the Terrible, Peter I. Stalin. The belittling of many ancient battles of the Russian tribes. There wasn’t even a Battle of the Ice. So, a couple of hundred clashed and that’s it. Lazha, not an article. From 1% information. 100% truth and skillful wedging in 80% lies. Everything according to reconnaissance manuals from behind a puddle.
  16. +3
    21 December 2017 18: 50
    Again, all this nonsense is near-historical. Tales of historians. And the Mongols didn’t conquer China then? I scrolled through the comments at the beginning and abandoned the matter. Tartary, by the way, is a geographical concept, not a political one. There was no such state. I won’t even waste time on the fictitious flag of Tartary.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 19: 58
      Then the entire off-history of beleberd is near-historical...
      Have you read the book of the Catholic priest Mavro Orbini “The Slavic Kingdom” - it was first published in 1601. in Italy... for me, it does not add up with the fact of the Tatar-Mongol yoke...
      By the way, the book was banned by the Catholic Church.

      Well, I don’t remember where I read it, the same Batu Khan destroyed the last Tatar in 1213 (from the historical manuscript of the Golden Horde), there was such a tribe... so if you believe this record, then the Tatar-Mongol yoke physically could not have happened.
  17. 0
    21 December 2017 18: 53
    I'll go smoke.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. +4
    21 December 2017 19: 35
    Boris55,
    Where did you get such fantastic information? “Invasion”, “betrayal of the Magi”... No one conquered Rus', we are talking about a calm change of religion over several generations.
  21. +1
    21 December 2017 19: 41
    To the east of the Nizhny Novgorod province, on the territory of Russia, there live many peoples who have non-Slavic roots: Mari, Chuvash, Mordovians, Tatars, Udmurts. If you look outside Russia, these are Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Turkmens, etc. Many of these peoples have Mongoloid characteristics. So what's the deal? Where are they from? Doesn't this indicate that there was once an empire here, and clearly not the Slavs? The fact that we do not have haplogroup C is another matter.
  22. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 20: 09
      1) Doesn’t this serve as proof that 1-2% of the C2 halogroup is a refutation of the yoke?
      2) What kind of core of Tatars are you talking about? Batu Khan destroyed the last Tatar in 1213 (they may have had from 100 to 40% C2), and the heirs of the Bulgars live in Russia. By the way, the name of the Tatar Republic appeared in 1923, and before that there was the Bulgarian Soviet (or Soviet Socialist - we must remember) republic.
    2. +1
      22 December 2017 08: 38
      Regarding the savages, the remark is quite strange; Rus' crushed the savages without any problems. Because they are savages. The battle on the Kulikovo Field was more of a showdown within the horde, where one, not the highest-ranking nobleman, thought too much of himself, for which he was beaten. The story with the “tribute for 12 years” comes from exactly that, what to pay to whom, and Mamai, who are you anyway? Let's go fast! Accordingly, in conditions of uncertainty, no one was paid anything, and then Tokhtamysh plundered Moscow to return this debt. After the Battle of Kulikovo, Rus' more than once snatched the most serious stars from the Horde.
  23. +5
    21 December 2017 19: 47
    Why is this opus in the History section and not Opinions? Of course, I understand that everyone’s education and cockroaches are different, I’m even ready to put up with it. But what does the story have to do with it?
  24. +5
    21 December 2017 19: 47
    The article is an outright fake.

    PS The author of the article, by his origin, is nothing other than a Tatar (“Scythian-Russian”, so to speak), suffering from a racial inferiority complex bully
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 20: 10
      Again ...
      1) Doesn’t this serve as proof that 1-2% of the C2 halogroup is a refutation of the yoke?
      2) What kind of core of Tatars are you talking about? Batu Khan destroyed the last Tatar in 1213 (they may have had from 100 to 40% C2), and the heirs of the Bulgars live in Russia. By the way, the name of the Tatar Republic appeared in 1923, and before that there was the Bulgarian Soviet (or Soviet Socialist - we must remember) republic.
      1. 0
        21 December 2017 23: 07
        I apologize that two of my comments appear in the discussion of the article (the first one disappeared at first). As for the ethnic origin of the author of the article, this is, of course, a joke, but in every joke, as we know, there is only a grain of joke.

        Now on the topic:

        1. The small proportion of C2 carriers among Russians and Belarusians is explained simply - the yoke was Mongol-Tatar and male C2 carriers were not included in the Russians and Belarusians even as slaves, since for the first and second Mongol-Tatars were traditionally the so-called. nasty.
        By the way, the share of C2 carriers among Ukrainians is twice as large - from 2 to 3%, which is associated with greater tolerance and longer contacts of the inhabitants of the southern outskirts of Rus' with the Cumans, Mongols and Tatars.
        The picture is the opposite with the Tatars, who accepted Russian male slaves into their ethnic group - the share of R1a carriers among them reaches 25% (which is still lower than the share of dominant C2 carriers - 30%).

        2. In Russia there live two small ethnically completely different peoples - the Tatars (dominant Mongolian C2) and the Bashkirs (dominant Celtic R1b with a small admixture of C2).
        The heirs of the Volga Bulgars are only the Bashkirs. Their relatives, led by Khan Asparukh, migrated to the Balkans in the 1th century and became part of the Bulgarian people, adding their characteristic haplogroup RXNUMXb to it.
        1. +3
          22 December 2017 00: 07
          On topic... what Tatars are you talking about?!
          Have you ever seen the Kama “Tatars”, and the Kazan ... when you see a Kama Tatar, you may not be able to tell the difference from a European.
          Small people Tatars - 30 million, the second largest in Russia... C2 is their dominant... source of information to the studio!!!
          1. 0
            22 December 2017 00: 22
            Haplotypes of various Tatar ethnic groups:


            I apologize, among the Volga and Siberian Tatars the dominant haplogroup is Finno-Ugric N1C1, Mongolian C2 (aka C3 according to the old nomenclature) is at the level of several percent. Nevertheless, the Tatars speak not Finnish, but a Turkic language (a legacy of cultural and linguistic assimilation by the Mongols).

            And you can easily distinguish the Volga Tatars from the Russians - the former have wide cheekbones and slanted eyes (the heritage of the Yakuts, who are 90% carriers of N1c1, in contrast to the Finns, who have only 70% N1c1).

            The number of Tatars in the Russian Federation according to the 2010 census is 5 million 310 thousand people.
            Crimean Tatars, 270 thousand of whom became part of the Russian Federation in 2014, according to their haplotype, are mainly northern Semites (J2), i.e. direct heirs of the Khazars, not the Yakuts.
            1. +5
              22 December 2017 08: 43
              Listen, I live in Tatarstan and I can’t always distinguish a Russian from a Tatar, especially since in the last decades there has been mixing, and large cities with a population of over 40% Russians were built in Soviet times, more or less, the pure Tatar population is only in old towns, Kazan, 52% Russians.

              The slanted eyes of the Volga Tatars are, as a rule, nonsense; the openly Mongoloid type is rare.

              The Bulgarian language was also Turkic, although it seems to be considered that it is closer to Bashkir.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. 0
    21 December 2017 19: 54
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    Well, these “brother knights” fought not only with Orthodox Russia, but also with Catholic Poland.

    Well, let’s say Poland has not always been Catholic, in particular during the time of the Teutonic quarters, some were pagans, and some were Orthodox, or rather Orthodox Christians, or as Catholics call Orthodox Christians of the Eastern type! The Kiev prince Vladimir, who brought the Greek priests, accepted the Orthodox Greek Church, and it called itself Orthodoxy even under the father of Peter Alekseevich, during the time of Metropolitan Nikon.
  27. +4
    21 December 2017 19: 59
    Over and over again, similar articles appear on the site.... Over and over again, heated debates flare up on this topic... And it is here that it is very clearly visible - WHERE IT IS POSSIBLE TO SOW DIVISION AND ENJOYMENT AMONG PEOPLES.... Our common enemy has long understood this , and over and over again throws a spark of discord between us.... Those who are smarter and wiser UNDERSTAND THIS, and do not succumb to this influence. Those who have little intelligence - with a zeal worthy of a much better use, rushes into this squabble....
    1. +5
      22 December 2017 15: 17
      First of all, our enemies are those who are trying to quarrel the Russian and Mongolian people by attributing to the peaceful Mongolian people, who from ancient times and until the 20th century peacefully engaged in transhumance cattle breeding on the border with China, the wildest and bloodiest deeds such as “conquering half the world.” Those who have little intelligence - with a zeal worthy of a much better use, rushes into this squabble, screaming about the truth of the bloody deeds of their innocent and unaware of what supposedly “bloodthirsty” ancestors they are.....
  28. +1
    21 December 2017 19: 59
    Quote: Tired
    - and not a single serious historian claims this. 30-50 thousand

    Yah! And the two tumens of Jebe and Subedey-Bagatura on Kalka? Tumen is an army of 10000, and as you know, any army cannot exist without support! Even during the time of Field Marshal Sheremetyev, it was extremely difficult to assemble and move such an army of 10...20 thousand (they could have been late for the Battle of Poltava)
  29. +2
    21 December 2017 20: 08
    As far as I remember, in the history of Tatarstan and some Arabic sources there is a similar historical version, and the facts that in the “horde” more than half of the soldiers were Russians and communicated in Russian (of that time, of course). And numerous Russian principalities fought and robbed each other almost without interruption, often attracting outlying peoples into their ranks.
    1. +2
      22 December 2017 12: 20
      Quote: masterovoy
      ...and the facts that in the “horde” more than half of the soldiers were Russians and communicated in Russian (of that time, of course).

      Rashid ad-Din mentions Russians as part of the horde storming Baghdad. But firstly, he lived 200 years after these events. Secondly, the assault on Baghdad took place after the invasion and Rus' at that time was a vassal of the Golden Horde, so it could allocate a limited contingent for the overlord.
      There is no evidence that the Russians stormed Ryazan, Moscow or Kyiv during the Tatar-Mongol invasion as part of the horde.
  30. +2
    21 December 2017 20: 09
    Quote: Operator
    A. Samsonov is screwing up: the Mongol-Tatar invasion of Rus' began with the battle on the Voronezh River between the Russian army of the Ryazan and Murom principalities and the Mongol-Tatars.

    So that’s it, and you’ve made a fool of yourself! The invasion began with the Battle of Kalka, with Subedei and Jebe in 1223. from R.H. Batu Khan came much later! Where has this adversary been hanging around for 14 years? 14, Karl, 14!
    There was no invasion! There was a unification of the steppe into a single coalition, and these were the remnants of the Khazars, Cumans, Pechenegs, Dzungars, ..... . In short, everyone was local and everyone had a grudge against Rus'!
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 23: 57
      I'm talking about the main invasion (the so-called Western or Kipchak campaign) of the Mongol-Tatars. Having assessed the strength of the Russian principalities during the raid of Subedei and Jebe (including the Battle of Kalka), the Mongol-Tatars mobilized forces for the conquest of Europe for 14 years (the so-called campaign to the last sea - the Atlantic).

      There was no unification of the Khazars, Polovtsians, Pechenegs with the Mongol-Tatars for a simple reason - the Khazars and Pechenegs did not exist a long time ago at the time of the invasion (they were destroyed by Prince Svyatoslav), and the Polovtsians were allies of the Russians and fought with them on Kalka.
      Another thing is that the Asian Mongol-Tatars first destroyed the European Turkic-speaking peoples - the Volga Bulgars and Polovtsians (including their remnants into their horde), and only then began to conquer the more western European people - the Russians.

      The Russians were originally a sedentary agricultural people and for several thousand years occupied the same territory from Ladoga to the rapids of the Dnieper, without encroaching on anyone. They maintained good neighborly relations with all their neighbors - the Scythians in the south, the Finns in the north, the Ugrians in the east, and their Slavic relatives in the West.
      Interethnic problems in Eastern Europe began with the arrival of nomadic Turkic-speaking peoples from Asia - the Huns, Avars, Pechenegs, Khazars, Cumans and Mongol-Tatars, who showed unprovoked aggression towards the indigenous population. We only had to answer, to the fullest extent possible, but don’t blame us - we asked for it ourselves.

      PS The Dzungars could not participate in the Western campaign of the Mongol-Tatars, since they separated from the Mongols proper only in the XNUMXth century during the collapse of the eastern uluses of the Mongol Empire.
    2. 0
      22 December 2017 19: 25
      The Battle of Kalka is not an invasion of Rus', but a reconnaissance and “corral” of the Polovtsians. Preparations for the Western Campaign took place for 14 years, because the Mongol Empire had other matters at that time: the death of Genghis Khan and the organization of a kurultai to elect a new Kaan, the war with the Jin Empire, the expansion of the Chagatai ulus, etc.
  31. +3
    21 December 2017 20: 10
    The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and the Will to freedom, which was not killed, no matter what. Through the Joy of Great Victories, and the bitterness of great losses ... Through hard work during the wars and creative work after the wars ... Through hundreds and thousands of burnt cities and villages, and even more rebuilt ... Through the seas of shed sweat and seas shed both their own and others ’blood ... All this - FOR MANY CENTURIES - AND NO MORE ...! Not for a second fantasizing about its alien origin. without thinking at all, and not even allowing the thought that the descendants would suddenly say that “it wasn’t. All of this fiction happened all by itself, we are great by ourselves, we are from outer space .... We sat with folded legs on our tummy, and everything just happened so simply. We just looked simply and ate popcorn ... "Denying the past, the history of our Great Ancestors, because of our pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -" no, not there was this, this simply could not be .. "by this you do not simply deny your past - YOU DESTROY IT E. You say: THERE WASN'T THESE OUR ANCESTORS, IN A TERRIBLE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY FOR THE AGES OF FORGIVING THE UNFIBERABLE SPIRIT OF THE PEOPLE .... It is with the external, and not in the internal internecine wars and squabbles of the Russian, when the brother goes There is no valor or honor in this internal internecine massacre. It doesn’t add anything to the people, it doesn’t give anything — neither the addition of the power of the Spirit, nor the Will to Victory and Freedom ... and What you know about the victories of the Russian people, about its Spirit and ability to fight for their Earth and their Faith - WHERE IT ALL TAKEN ...? If you believe it - IN THE INTERNAL GRAVE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS, IT IS SHAMNESS TOGETHER WHEN YOURS KILL YOURS ..... Did not think your Great ancestors didn’t guess that their descendants would be able to succumb to these nonsense ... They completely shredded .. All their Great works are worthless .. Not it turned out to be ... In vain they endured 240 years, perished, accumulated strength, gathered their Earth and people in one fist so that at one point they would bring down the Enemy with all their might .... In vain they later repelled the attacks and raids both from the south, from the west, and from the east .... You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia and like in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes. AND ALL LAWS OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT ARE APPLICABLE TO YOU. Applicable and required. AND ONLY THE SEVERE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY TARGING YOU TO WORK OR DESTROY FOR YOUR OWN SURVIVAL FOR AGES HAS MADE YOU SUCH ... Great people. And now you are destroying the memory of these centuries with your own hands ... What can this lead to ...? THE PEOPLE FORGOTTEN HIS HISTORY - DOOMED TO REPEAT IT AGAIN ....
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 20: 18
      Denying the yoke is precisely remembering one’s history... and not following the geyropa that the Russians are slaves (like they endured the yoke for 300 years)... don’t you agree?
      And as for the fact that there was an internecine massacre or something else then, we still need to prove the massacre...!!! In the meantime, it’s only you who mention the massacre...

      Well, the historical events for which the Russians died and without approval the yoke will go through the roof!!!

      And maybe you need to read a book by a Catholic priest Mavro Orbini "Slavic kingdom"- was first published in 1601. in Italy... for me, it does not add up to the fact of the Tatar-Mongol yoke... and it was not for nothing that the Catholic Church banned it at one time.
      1. +1
        21 December 2017 22: 27
        If “the Scythian-Russians fought with the Russians themselves,” then what else can we call it if not an internal internecine massacre...?
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 23: 26
          1) Evidence of internecine massacre in the studio... this time...
          2) If there was a war, then are you sure that related peoples were slaughtered there...
          This is one moment.
          Let’s say there was enmity... but where was it not, and why is this a reproach? Aww garage... why the reproach? And why not reproach the yoke - after all, then they surrendered because they were not united, they were at enmity...

          But they want to show you that there was no yoke, that they did not give up, that they had the strength to resist external threats - and if they were at enmity, they could... ayy garage...

          Well, there are always frictions, even between the closest ones in the family... and I’m not even talking about nations!!!

          So your logic is completely bad, you contradict yourself!!!
      2. +1
        22 December 2017 08: 45
        What yoke? Feudal relations with payment of taxes? This is how they have been doing this in Europe for centuries.
      3. +2
        22 December 2017 13: 05
        Is there anything reliable on this topic besides Mavro Orbini? Otherwise, it turns out that modern historians are ignorant, and Mavro rules the world.
  32. 0
    21 December 2017 20: 12
    Quote: Field wind
    Can I send you medieval drawings of a campaign?

    Well, when they painted their contemporaries, they painted them correctly, Moors as Moors, Teutons as Teutons, etc.! Marco Polo strangely described the Horde as if it were middle Europe.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. +1
    21 December 2017 20: 19
    It may be that recently, in the Urals and Siberia, the remains of large cities 4-5 thousand years old have been found, and these are facts. And Temujin was from the Dinlin (Scythian) family, the same fact from the chronicles.
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 13: 07
      What do you think about a large city 4 thousand years old, the number of inhabitants? Regarding the origin of Temujin - source to the studio!
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. +1
    21 December 2017 20: 24
    The history of Rus' is covered in darkness.
  37. +3
    21 December 2017 20: 35
    If only there would be more such historical news for the people of Russia, then Western mythologies would finally come to an end...
  38. +4
    21 December 2017 20: 59
    Scientific nonsense designed to justify the split of the Russian nation into Russians and Ukrainians. The enemy's invention.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 23: 29
      Where did you see the justification for the split?! Justify...otherwise it's just nonsense...
  39. +4
    21 December 2017 21: 06
    Samsonov Alexander needs urgent treatment. High degree of pseudo-historical nonsense. The author did not read the sources or ignores them. He didn’t go to museums; he’s not interested in archaeological data. There is nothing to discuss. Comrade Samsonov, follow the path of Ukrainian pseudo-historians.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 23: 31
      Facts to the studio... otherwise we know how your archaeological data is obtained... what is the cost of radiocarbon dating)))
      1. 0
        22 December 2017 12: 09
        Do you want to share his room? Prove that Napoleon is not he, but me?
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. +2
    21 December 2017 21: 22
    Lieutenant Teterin,
    I don’t know about the Chinese, but I read about the Japanese. Human life there was worth a little less than nothing. But this is understandable. Small archipelago, a lot of people... Whoever had time, got to eat recourse
  42. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 23: 17
      No, no... we are not taking away the palm from you, of course you dug...ko)))
      Russia has enough of its own achievements... without your excavation work)))
    2. +3
      21 December 2017 23: 23
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      Have we even dug up the Black Sea?

      not crests, the Caucasus Mountains are dumps, and hydrogen sulfide in the sea - they washed their trousers...
    3. 0
      26 December 2017 06: 20
      In fact, they give a thumbs up to the very formulation of the question, which allows us to finally express our attitude to the alternative version of the history of our country, thrown at us by medieval Western alternativeists, which includes this notorious invasion and yoke.
  43. +5
    21 December 2017 22: 00
    It was simply impossible - a huge army of hundreds of thousands of warriors and even more horses could not be fed. Yes, the Mongols in this period simply did not correspond to the great conquerors who decided to conquer the whole "universe." They were at a low stage of development - the expansion of tribal relations; they had neither military-economic potential, nor human resources, nor the corresponding drive.
    Excellent nonsense!
    Instead of "Genghis Khan's Mongols" substitute:
    Cimmerians Tlyugdamme;
    Scythians Ishpakaya;
    Attila's Huns;
    Turks of Bumyn;
    Arabs Muhammad, etc. and so on.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 23: 19
      Quote: Weyland
      Excellent nonsense!


      And you need to read the book of the Catholic priest Mavro Orbini “The Slavic Kingdom” - it was first published in 1601. in Italy... for me, it does not add up to the fact of the Tatar-Mongol yoke... and it was not for nothing that the Catholic Church banned it at one time.
  44. +2
    21 December 2017 23: 24
    I read until the word “Hyperborea”, after which I immediately understood the “value” of this article. Attempts to invent the history of Hyperborea are as ridiculous as stories about the proto-Ukrainians, who created all the great empires, including the Roman one, dug up the Black Sea, etc. Oh, these fairy tales for me, oh, these storytellers for me. If you want to talk about Hyperborea, provide material sources: excavate the capital and cities, provide historical cultural artifacts, restore (at least partially and schematically) writing and language, i.e. follow the normal historical and archaeological path. And inventing countries and peoples is for Andersen.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 23: 39
      And you weren’t interested in astronomy, they say it’s an exact science, unlike “history”...
      If you look at the astronomical phenomena that have occurred, it turns out according to official history that the moon around the earth has changed its rotation speed more than once in the last millennium...)))

      So who the storyteller really is is something we still have to look at...)))

      And there is no need to attribute the insanity that the Russians were infected with on “Nezalezhnaya”...
    2. 0
      23 December 2017 18: 39
      >read until the word “Hyperborea”, after which I immediately understood the “value” of this article.

      Herodotus also wrote about the Hyperboreans, claiming that they were an older and more powerful civilization
  45. +2
    21 December 2017 23: 29
    and by the way, I want to leave a comment about the lack of passionarity of the Mongols. The very idea of ​​passionarity belongs to L.N. Gumilyov, and it was the founder of this theory who perfectly described the emergence of the Mongol Empire (in almost all his books he paid attention to the Mongols) and considered the Mongols of that time to be a typical passionate people after the recent passionary explosion. So the author should not have manipulated the facts to suit his theory.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 23: 43
      Do you already deny the Tatar-Mongol yoke? ))) Has it already turned into Mongolian...?)))

      By the way, just according to your advice, probably))), not so long ago the heirs of the proto-Ukrainians from Mongolia wanted to demand compensation ....))))))))
    2. +2
      22 December 2017 11: 28
      Quote: Edvagan
      and considered the Mongols of that time to be a typical passionate people after the recent passionary explosion.

      When you need to explain some kind of wildness, about which the traditional version of history tells us that “it happened” - what even wilder explanation can you come up with? Including the so-called “bioenergetic dominant of ethnogenesis.” hi
  46. +1
    22 December 2017 00: 08
    some kind of nonsense...not an article
  47. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      22 December 2017 08: 54
      Yes, yes, it was only in Europe that they behaved this way, and the noble savages did not eat or torture anyone. It is absolutely natural for a person to kill his own kind, and the lower the level of development, the greater the need for this.

      For a savage in Africa, “good is when I beat my neighbor and stole his wife and cattle,” “bad is when my neighbor beat me and stole my wife and cattle.” A representative of a neighboring tribe is no different from an animal in their eyes.

      Do you even understand that when at least some ideas about humanism appeared in Europe, the rest of the world cut itself with gusto? Europe until the 20th century was the only place where such concepts even existed. And some peoples, like the Chinese, have not yet emerged from savagery, even if they have iPhones. Not because they are racially inferior, but because it takes generations.

      And the fact that you know at least something about the Inquisition, but don’t know a damn thing about how blacks and Papuans slaughter each other, is a direct consequence of the fact that in Europe there are history textbooks, with an awareness of how people used to live. Blacks have not yet reached this point and do not reflect.
      1. 0
        23 December 2017 18: 44
        > Do you generally understand that when in Europe at least some ideas about humanism appeared

        only there are several times more Chinese, and this has always been the case. From a biological point of view, this is an assessment of the worldview of society
  48. +1
    22 December 2017 04: 05
    ...I don’t know about others...but I liked the article...venaya.and you personally are right in many respects...I don’t like the Dzungars (St. George kills the dragon)...
  49. +1
    22 December 2017 04: 37
    Lieutenant Teterin,
    ...and in Central America...somewhere in the region of what is now Mexico...and in South America...Spanish conquistadors...in the name of Christ...and for the glory of the Catholic Church
  50. 0
    22 December 2017 06: 45
    Quote: gorlumello
    the casket itself is made in the XNUMXth century, but where the “gifts” were kept before that and to what era they date is unknown. There is no scientific evidence.

    ..the restoration was carried out and they spoiled it a little - instead of the *black one - (the red maiden) they made it *black* - well, not for nothing...
  51. +1
    22 December 2017 06: 52
    RUSS,
    Why are you poking them with geography and history? The only answer is “you’ll get it all right”, in fact, Russians lived everywhere, only some Latin Russians, others British, others French, etc., then some crap happened that caused widespread amnesia, in short, such an empire was fucked up.
  52. +6
    22 December 2017 07: 10
    novel66,
    Quote: novel xnumx
    good for my friend to roll cylinders

    laughing What else does Roma have left for him? Newly-minted historians, when they have no arguments, immediately become rude!
  53. +1
    22 December 2017 07: 26
    Quote: Parabelum
    RUSS,
    Why are you poking them with geography and history? The only answer is “you’ll get it all right”, in fact, Russians lived everywhere, only some Latin Russians, others British, others French, etc., then some crap happened that caused widespread amnesia, in short, such an empire was fucked up.

    ..my point is that it couldn’t have happened without the Jews... God’s chosen ones - they know better..
  54. +2
    22 December 2017 08: 29
    There's something wrong with the author's head. The only thing we can agree with is that the Mongols in Batu’s army, which marched from Khorezm, were already greatly diluted.
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 19: 40
      Mongols in the troops of Batu Ulus were only in command positions and in his personal guard. The most “Mongol-intensive” were the corps of Guyuk and Mongke (and, accordingly, the most combat-ready).
  55. 0
    22 December 2017 09: 08
    No source provided. The entire article is based on the author's beliefs.
    However, I agree with the author that a lot is not explained in the history of Rus', a lot is hidden and made up. History is written by the winner. And when the Germans from the House of Romanov came to power in Rus', then these rulers wrote history for themselves, manipulating the facts.
    Alternative hypotheses and versions of the history of Rus' will not be widely publicized until it is beneficial to the rulers; what is happening in/in Ukraine with their ancient Ukraine is a vivid example of this.
    The most important thing to understand is that a person tends to seek, interpret, or favor information that is consistent with his point of view, belief, or hypothesis. This is the worst trick of the Internet. Everyone finds the information they want to find and then becomes even more convinced of it.
  56. +3
    22 December 2017 09: 29
    Quote: venaya
    This article by the author is the best in his series of articles on this topic.

    I support. My position is known.
    Initially, the “Tatar yoke” was an invention of Catholic Poles who sought to present Poland as the last outpost of European civilization in the East of Europe. Behind which there are already half-wild barbarians, who have just crawled out from under the “Tatar yoke.” Then, when during the Napoleonic troops, Europeans saw real Tatars in Europe and Paris and were surprised that these Tatars were exactly the same Europeans as themselves - European historians quickly began to transform the “Tatar yoke” first into the Tatar-Mongol, then into “Mongol-Tatar”, and now often even we ourselves limit ourselves to just “Mongolian”. And the Khalkha people were appointed to the post of Mongols. .. Why was the term “Mongols”, or more precisely “Moguls” chosen? Yes, most likely because at that time - at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries, the richest Great Mughals, who then ruled in India and considered themselves (like the Chinese) the rulers of Asia, were on everyone's lips in Europe. And the Europeans knew that the Great Mongols were aliens in India. So they decided that the ancestors of the then-current Great Mughals, before coming to India, could well have been bearers of the yoke here in Rus'. :))) And when the white people came to that part of the territory of China, which is now the sovereign country of Mongolia, and began to ask the local Khalka about “their great ancestor Genghis Khan” - then, to the disappointment of the white people, it turned out that the local Khalka had no idea about which Chinggis Khan? Then the white people began to educate the Khalk, telling them what a great ancestor they had. Well, the Hulks were of course surprised, but they accepted the version with the great ancestor. Well, who doesn’t want to have great ancestors? And now the Khalka actually consider themselves descendants of “those Mongols” and can tell everything about Genghis Khan. The main thing is for more tourists to come. Hulk from the Chinggis Khan brand makes a very good deal :)))
    In the same way, when the Swedes needed to designate rights to the “Kemsk volost”, the Swede Peter Petrey created the theory that the Varangians, who are Swedes, were once called upon to rule Rus'. Well, our liberals, (they were there at all times) even then looking to the West, took up these theories with admiration, that yes, here we are, gray-legged, we were under the yoke for 300 years, and before that we couldn’t figure it out among ourselves - we had to fight the Varangians from beyond the sea to call to rule us. Ugh..
    It is also important that this pro-Western, liberalist (and by the way adopted by the Bolshevik communists), anti-people and anti-Russian version of the supposedly former Tatar-Mongol yoke was designed to distract and is now distracting our people from their own problems, especially in the years after the civil war , during the hungry years of collectivization, in the pre-war years, during the war years, in the post-war period, in the hungry 80s and 90s. Lovers and propagandists of the yoke convince the people that there is nothing to worry about, that in the history of Rus' it was even worse - but they survived. It was not for nothing that Stalin and the Soviet government as a whole welcomed the Kolchakite V. Yanchevetsky (Pseudonym - V. Yan), who in his fictional but pseudo-historical books described in truly highly artistic terms the “conquest of Rus' by the Mongols.” And today’s liberals convince us that we need to live under the external control of the West and, like, “get wiser,” and that there’s nothing wrong with that, because supposedly the “Mongol-Tatars” once conquered us. And the “yoke” was imposed. You (the people), the main thing is don’t worry, you have to be patient, the main thing is to be more tolerant..... and then someday everything will return to normal on its own. May be. In 200-300 years:((No, nothing will return to normal on its own if we ourselves don’t take action now. The land cannot be given away. And it is even more impossible to come under the external control of the West. In fact, our ancestors They did not bow to the Tatar-Mongols and did not go under their “yoke.” The words “Tatar”, “Mongol”, Mongol-Tatar”; “Tatar-Mongol”, Baskak”, “khan” are never found in any of the birch bark documents. , “Great Khan”, “Horde”, “yoke”, “Batu”, etc. But today’s liberals, relying on Karamzin, spit in the soul of our ancestors, who did not suspect that they were “under the yoke”.
    About the “Batu” and “Genghis Khans”. The Turks (Kazakhs, for example) take the cardinal directions as the basis for orientation in space: sunrise and sunset. In the Kazakh language, sunrise is shygys, sunset is batys. From here the East is Shygys, and the West is Batys. The main holy direction was the east. If you stand facing the east, then on the right (in the Kazakh language the right side is he) will be Ontustik-South, and on the left (in the Kazakh language - sol), respectively, Soltustik-North. In this regard, everything that is located to the west of the steppe for the Kazakhs had the prefix batu, and to the east - shygys. Hence, the ruler of any territories western from the habitat of the Kazakhs was called Batu-Khan (Batu). Kazan Khan - Batu Khan. Grand Duke of Muscovy - Batu Khan. The King of Poland, if the Kazakhs knew about him, is also Batu Khan. And the khan of the East, for example, China, was Shygys Khan (in our pronunciation Genghis Khan). That is, all these Batu, Batu, Batys and Shagys (Genghis) could be (and were, because the West is full of all sorts of “Karls”) names of specific people, and they could be common names for all the khans-rulers of these directions and territories. By the way, Genghis Khan is simply any “Solar Khan” or “Eastern Khan” and in the language of a number of Volga peoples. And the word “Mongol” itself in Turkic means the Eternal Country “Mangi el”. The Mongols' Thousand-Year Reich would also be "Deutschland Mangi el" (German Mongols). And Hitler is the Great Batu-Khan Mangi el Germany. That is why all the real savages, whom civilized peoples had in every way, so joyfully perceive this fantasy with the so-called “Mongol-Tatar yoke” in Rus'. Well, they should at least be proud of something. And if they have nothing REAL that they could be proud of, then they are proud of FICTION. Whatever the child amuses himself with....
  57. +1
    22 December 2017 09: 34
    Quote: Seeker
    I would like to remind all “expert” historians that at the beginning of the 13th century the Mongols conquered Khorasan and China, which stood at an unspeakably higher stage of development than the then disunited, weak Russia. That is, the Russian principalities were “like 2 fingers” for the Mongols.. ..."At the same time, it is worth considering that the Mongols dealt very mercifully with state entities that surrendered to their mercy - the entire previous structure of power was preserved, right down to the rulers. One thing was required of the vanquished - tribute and submission. But those who disobeyed faced merciless punishment!! !!An example of this is the Mongol yoke in Russia. Yes, it seems like a yoke, but the Russians saw the Mongols only when they collected tribute (and then as observers) or when they rebelled against this tribute. The result is that the Tatar-Mongol yoke in Rus' COULD NOT HAVE BEEN -at that time there were no other relations other than conquest between the strong and the weak.

    ..currently a drop of tar spoils the barrel of honey.. The loopholes in the *Great Wall of China are directed towards China, Beijing used to be called Bel-kan - the White Khans.. And..only in the 14th century did desertification begin in Central Asia, which caused leave those places of the Scythians, which opened the way for the Mongoloid tribes from Altai to Transbaikalia and the Far East..
  58. +1
    22 December 2017 10: 09
    At first there was “no” Tatar-Mongol invasion. Then drug addict nonsense about “the great trachtaria”. Then “there was no” Great Patriotic War.
    Stop with Fomenkovism, author. Reptilian underpressed...
    1. +3
      22 December 2017 12: 10
      About the underpressed.
      Initially, the "Tatar yoke" was an invention of Catholic Poles, who sought to present Poland as such a last outpost of European civilization in Eastern Europe. Behind which there are already semi-savage barbarians who have just emerged from under the "Tatar yoke". Then, when, in the course of the Napoleonic troops, the Europeans saw real Tatars in Europe and Paris and were surprised that these Tatars - exactly the same Europeans as themselves - European historians quickly began to transform the "Tatar yoke" first into the Tatar-Mongol yoke, then into "Mongol-Tatar", and now often even we ourselves are limited to one "Mongolian". And the Khalkha nation was appointed to the post of the Mongols. ..
      Why was the term “Mongols”, or more precisely “Moguls” chosen? Most likely because at that time, at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries, the richest Great Mughals, who then ruled in India and considered themselves (like the Chinese) the rulers of Asia, were on everyone’s lips in Europe. And the Europeans knew that the Great Mongols were aliens in India. So they decided that the ancestors of the then-current Great Mughals, before coming to India, could well have been bearers of the yoke here in Rus'. hi
      And when the white people came to that part of the territory of China, which is now the sovereign country of Mongolia, and began to ask the local Khalka about “their great ancestor Genghis Khan” - then, to the disappointment of the white people, it turned out that the local Khalka had no idea about any Genghis - khan. Then the white people began to educate the Khalk, telling them what a great ancestor they had.
      The Hulk were certainly surprised, but the version with the great ancestor was accepted. Who doesn't want to have great ancestors? And now the Hulk already really consider themselves the descendants of "those Mongols" and can tell everything about Genghis Khan. The main thing is that more tourists come. Hulk Mongols from the Genghis Khan brand make a very nice gesheft hi
      Likewise, when the Swedes had to designate the rights to the "Kemsk volost" - the Swede Peter Petrei created a theory that once the Vikings, who are Swedes, were called to rule in Russia. Well, our liberals, (they were at all times) already looking to the West, enthusiastically picked up these theories that yes, here we are, sivolapy, we were under the yoke for 300 years, And before that we could not figure it out among ourselves - the Vikings had to from overseas to call to rule us. Ugh.. angry
      It is also important that this pro-Western, liberalist (by the way, adopted by Soviet agitprop), anti-people and anti-Russian version of the supposedly former Tatar-Mongol yoke was intended to justify the possibility of external foreign control in Russia. Pro-Western liberals and Soviet propagandists of the yoke inspired and continue to instill in the people that there is nothing to worry about, that it was even worse in the history of Rus' - but they survived. It was not for nothing that Stalin and the Soviet government as a whole welcomed the Kolchakite V. Yanchevetsky (Pseudonym - V. Yan), who in his fictional but pseudo-historical books described in truly highly artistic terms the “conquest of Rus' by the Mongols.”
      And today’s liberals convince us that “bast-cloth authoritarian Russia” needs to live under the external control of the “democratic enlightened West” and “get wiser.” They suggest that there is nothing wrong with this (external control of the West), because supposedly the “Mongol-Tatars” once conquered us. And the “yoke” was imposed. And we supposedly lived under the “yoke” for 300 years!! But then they grew wiser from the yoke, gathered their courage and strength, and threw off this “yoke.” So, you (the people), the main thing is don’t worry, just be patient, be more tolerant... and then someday everything will return to normal on its own. May be. In 200-300 years...
      No, gentlemen, liberals! Nothing will return to normal by itself if we ourselves do not take action now. Our land cannot be given to anyone. And it is all the more impossible to go under the external control of the West and s. In fact, our ancestors did not bow to any Tatar-Mongols and did not go under their "yoke". None of the birch bark letters ever contain the words: "Tatar", "Mongol", Mongol-Tatar ";" Tatar-Mongol ", Baskak", "Khan," Great Khan "," Horde "," yoke ", "Batu", etc. But the current liberals, relying on Karamzin, spit into the souls of our ancestors, who did not suspect that they were "under the yoke."
  59. 0
    22 December 2017 10: 20
    The famous German traveler Adam Olearius, who visited Muscovy in the 30s of the 1656th century with the Holstein embassy, ​​in his work “Description of a Journey to Muscovy” published in XNUMX, mentions Ryazan among the cities existing in Russia at the beginning of the book:

    In Russia there are many large and in their own way magnificent cities, among which the most famous are Moscow, Veliky Novgorod, Nizhny Novgorod, Pskov, Smolensk... Arkhangelsk (a large seaside and trading city), Tver, Torzhok, Ryazan, Tula, Kaluga, Rostov, Pereyaslavl , Yaroslavl, Uglich, Vologda, Vladimir, Staraya Russa.

    However, having traveled along the Oka and Volga, Olearius clarifies his information:

    5th s. m. we drove past the town of Ryazan, etc., which used to be a large and even the main city of the entire province of this name. But when the Crimean Tatars invaded in 1568 and, beating and burning, devastated everything, this city also perished. Since, however, this province, located between the Oka and the rampart built against the Tatars, was previously a principality and, in addition, being extremely fertile, surpasses all neighboring provinces in arable farming, cattle breeding and game [...]. Having devastated it, he ordered a large number of people to be gathered from everywhere, the whole country to be re-cultivated and restored to its previous order. Since they found a more convenient [417] place to build the city of Ryazan, namely where Pereyaslavl now lies 8 miles from [old] Ryazan, they moved the remaining building material here and built a completely new city. It is called Pereyaslavl of Ryazan, since the majority and most prominent of the persons who built and inhabited it were from Pereyaslavl, which lies as far from Moscow to the north as this city lies to the south.
  60. +4
    22 December 2017 10: 59
    Quote: ammunition
    By the way! Batu Khan had only 15 Mongols in his army. Others are Kipchaks, Khakass, Manchus, Turgais... etc.

    Wow !!! Did you find the staff list of Baty’s army somewhere? In the original or what? Can I ask who approved it? Dad himself or what?
    Quote: ammunition
    And he had only 8 tumens. That is, half as many horses as Giray.

    Really? Where does this data come from? Again from the staffing table of the "ancient Mongol army"?
    Quote: ammunition
    And what horses!!! Batu's horses were of the Mongolian breed. Exceptional among the horse people in endurance

    Oh yes, horses.... oh what horses..... the most "Mongolian" breed.
    Before writing this, you should have looked into books on horse breeding, huh? Or would you read the book by Semyon Mikhailovich Budyonny?
    They are hardy and hardy. But it’s just slow!!!! Due to this, endurance. They can walk for days at a speed of 5-6 kilometers per hour, nibbling grass as they go. And the Mongolian rider can sleep peacefully in the saddle at this time. But here’s the problem: these horses gallop at such a wild gait that the rider’s main task is to stay in the saddle. Traditional Mongolian horses cannot run at a pace at all. Not adapted.

    The Mongolian horse is wide-bodied, but small, bony, with a heavy hunchbacked head and small eyes. Her neck is short with a low output, her ears are short; withers low, often massive, turning into a long straight back. Average measurements of mares (cm): height at the withers 127, oblique length 134, chest circumference 154, metacarpus circumference 16,8. The weight of mares is 250-300 kg.
    Currently, racing horses in Mongolia are obtained by crossing local mares with thoroughbred stallions of other species. Actually, crossbreeding began from the time when the Khalka-Mongols first became acquainted with Cossack horses. Crossbreeding was highly developed during the period of Soviet power and especially during the battles at Khalkin Gol, when significant forces of the Red Army with their horse personnel were located on the territory of Mongolia.
    Due to crossbreeding, half-breeds (horses of other breeds) are currently not allowed in traditional Mongolian horse racing along with Mongolian horses. There is a very big difference between them. Separate races are held for Arabian horses. In the opinion of Mongolian trainers, only Mongolian horses should compete in long-distance racing. Why ? Yes, because the supernatural endurance of the Mongolian horse is determined by its slowness: “the Mongolian horse has a fast step, a free gallop, and the trot is not developed” (TSE). That is, the poor animal is simply not able to run fast on its short legs.
    The Mongolian horse does not know how to run at a trot, in extreme cases, starts a "free gallop", that is, runs off jumping haphazardly. But a gallop, especially a “free” one, is an extremely uneconomical way of running. The European cavalrymen allowed horses to gallop at the end of the attack in the final throw on the enemy. And the usual rapid movement of cavalry occurred at a trot. And just in time for a lynx the Mongolian horse is not capable. That is, the Mongolian horsemen on Mongolian horses are not able to either catch up with cavalrymen of other nations or run away from them.

    Thus, the Mongol cavalry not only could not fight with the Persian, Arab and European cavalry, for the Mongol horseman to escape from the infantry is a real problem. The normal speed of the Mongolian horse is 4-5 km / h. A briskly running man is quite capable of catching a rider on a Mongolian horse.
    The historians themselves, however, do not insist that the Mongol warriors, inspired by Genghis Khan, swept away foot armies with a ramming blow and chopped down the plated European cavalry into cabbage. In their enlightened opinion, the tactics of the Mongol cavalry were as follows.

    Mongol horsemen circled on horseback around the enemy army, raining down clouds of well-aimed, deadly arrows on the enemy. The enemy lost his presence of mind and ran wherever he could. The cunning Mongol commanders deliberately left the enemy a clear path to retreat. The invincible Mongol cavalry was chasing the fleeing enemy. That's it, another battle has been brilliantly won.

    They say that the Mongol horseman, at full gallop, fired clouds of arrows at the enemy with phenomenal accuracy and strength. Clay whistles were supposedly attached to the arrows; their screeching caused the enemy to completely fall into complete panic. As you might already guess, after meeting with the Europeans, the Mongols not only completely forgot how to shoot a bow, but the masses did it rather mediocrely.

    Stories about the extreme accuracy of the Mongol warriors lead me to bad suspicions. Usually, European folklore attributes the quality of unimaginable shooting accuracy (from a bow, a gun, throwing a knife, a spear or an ax) to historically weak opponents, easily defeated by small forces - Indians, Basmachi and various other savages. Apparently, when nothing outstanding can be said about the strength and danger of a defeated enemy, the Europeans endow him with at least unimaginable accuracy.
    And what did the “Mongol cavalry” do if the despicable enemy turned out to be not faint of heart and did not flee from it in panic? And why on earth would he run?! Unless he is pathologically cowardly, of course. Disciplined and skilled infantry, which is not taken by surprise, confidently repels the attacks of any cavalry. In the early 16th century, unarmored Swiss infantry units armed only with pikes and bows (crossbows) defeated heavy cavalry for defeat. After a series of unsuccessful battles on horseback, armored cavalrymen began to attack the Swiss on horseback. hi
    Military experts will agree that in skirmishes between foot and horse archers, horsemen are doomed.
    Firstly, it is still more difficult to shoot from a galloping horse than while standing on the ground.
    Secondly, the rider is an easy target, mainly because the horse is vulnerable. Almost any arrow wound disables the horse.
    Thirdly, foot archers can cover themselves with shields (shoot from behind the rows of warriors holding shields), but there is nothing to cover a horse galloping past the rows of infantry.
    Fourthly, infantry has a higher firing density (in the sense of shooting arrows) due to the obvious fact that infantry formations are denser.
    So an attempt to attack the infantry according to the recipes of historians will lead to the fact that any cavalry will very quickly be left without horses. This is the best case scenario for her.

    The entire more or less reliably known history of the 17th-19th centuries confirms the low combat effectiveness of the Mongol cavalry. With varying success, the Mongols fought against each other and neighboring nomads. A small auxiliary corps of Mongol cavalry was used by the Manchus. But in all cases the military role of Mongol troops in modern reliable history was secondary.

    More from the section "Horse breeding and breeding", chapter "Mongolian horse". The book is purely economic; the traditional version of history is not questioned. But.....
    The harsh climatic conditions of Mongolia and the natural selection that prevailed in the semi-wild keeping of horses made attempts to improve the horse fruitless, and for many centuries it remained the same small and unpretentious. Even the capture by the Mongols of a large number of horses of more cultivated breeds (in particular horses of Central Asia) could not contribute to the improvement of the local Mongolian horse, since the brought horses and their crosses were not adapted to being kept in herds in the harsh climatic conditions of Mongolia.

    It is characteristic that horses bred in the immediate vicinity of Mongolia to the west (Kyrgyz and Kazakh) and to the north (Minusinsk) are significantly larger than the Mongolian horse. The reason should be sought in the higher level of horse breeding technology and less severe climatic conditions characteristic of the areas where these horses are bred. This should also explain the fact that horses bred in the regions of the Chita region, Buryat-Mongolian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic and Altai Territory adjacent to Mongolia are also generally larger than Mongolian horses.

    Ambling is an innate ability, a comfortable gait for the rider. Since ambling is not found among purebred Mongolian horses, now Mongolian horses are taught to amble in such a rather cruel way. The poor animal has been trained since childhood; the foal's two legs are tied, the back and front on one side, and he has to amble. Of course, such artificial pacers are much inferior to natural ones. But The Mongols have no other way to make a horse fit for racing.
  61. +2
    22 December 2017 11: 15
    Quote: avva2012
    If this continues, then we will study ancient history using the “classical textbook”, Nikolai Kuhn’s “Legends and Myths of Ancient Greece”.

    On what basis do you think one can study “ancient history”?
    As I understand it, history should be studied not from someone’s books, but from documents. Well, there, according to genuine decrees, orders, instructions, etc. all sorts of Aristides, Themistocles, Alexanders of Macedon, Caesars, Augusti, Julys... protocols of the Areopagus of the ancient Greeks and the Senates of the ancient Romans and so on.
    One question. Has anyone seen at least one authentic document that can reliably be considered related to “Ancient Ancient Greece” or “Ancient Ancient Rome”??
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 17: 09
      Were everyone lying to us? Oh, it’s not for nothing that these bikes got such circulation on the Internet, not for nothing. If you compress all the information and discard the various husks, then the meaning in alternative history is the same as that of the Nepolzhivs from ideology. They all lied to us! I don’t know, perhaps you are sincere about what you believe in, but the same pandemonium with history began in Ukraine. One distortion, “everyone lied to us!”, second, third and.... Jump.
      Leave the story alone. At least the fact that you have time to tap on the keys, and not hunch over in the field, is the merit of our ancestors. Let them sleep peacefully.
  62. +3
    22 December 2017 11: 20
    Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
    The Mongols came here only to collect tribute and slaughter a village or two.

    Was this their fix idea? Every “Mongol” for hundreds of years was born and died with the idea that somewhere far in the West there is such a city “Ryazan”, which every self-respecting Mongol is obliged to find and burn! For a long time this national idea remained unattainable. And finally, the “Mongols” had a Great Leader, Kim Il Sung..... ugh, Chin Gis Khan, thanks to whom the Mongols were finally able to realize their age-old dream. laughing
  63. +2
    22 December 2017 11: 30
    Quote: Weyland
    Instead of "Genghis Khan's Mongols" substitute:
    Cimmerians Tlyugdamme;
    Scythians Ishpakaya;
    Attila's Huns;
    Turks of Bumyn;
    Arabs Muhammad, etc. and so on.

    You're right. In the traditional version of history, so much approximately the same nonsense is written that anyone from your list can be safely inserted into this article.
  64. +2
    22 December 2017 11: 59
    Quote: parma
    Of the examples given - the campaign of Alexander the Great (the Great) and the supposed demographic indicators of Macedonia... According to historians, the most

    What are your details?

    Saint Makeda Queen of Sheba, icon.
    By the way, from the novel "Alexandria", widely distributed in Rus' in the 15-16th centuries, excerpts from a brief summary, the style is modern.
    After the death of Philip, Alexander made a series of campaigns. He besieges Athens, which at that time was headed by 12 wise men. Of these, Diogenes went over to Alexander's side and taught him to take the city by cunning. Having taken Athens, Alexander set it on fire. The temple with the gods also burned down. On this occasion, Alexander remarked that if the gods really were gods, they would be able to save themselves from fire. When Alexander expressed a feeling of joy at the victory and a feeling of regret for the shedding of Athenian blood, Diogenes remarked: “It is hard for those who do not accept the advice of the wise: teach the foolish, and he will hate you; give the wise amusement, they will be wiser.”
    The fall of Athens aroused general attention and regret among the Greek kings. Having learned about this, Alexander remarked: “Without breaking the head, the brain cannot be reached.”
    After Athens it was Rome's turn. The Romans, who already knew about the fate of Athens, expressed their submission to Alexander and came to him with gifts., among which were 12 clothes of Solomon and his crown of stemma (headband) of the queen of the southern Sibyl, weapons of Paris and Ajax, etc.

    Why do you think the story of the conquest of Rome by Alexander, widespread in the Middle Ages, is now considered unreliable and people prefer not to remember it?
  65. The comment was deleted.
  66. 0
    22 December 2017 12: 11
    Quote: Vlad Volkov
    which is more than 100 years old, at least.

    Totally cool! Why not 100 million. Relatives of dinosaurs!
  67. +1
    22 December 2017 12: 13
    Quote: Seal
    One question. Has anyone seen at least one authentic document that can reliably be considered related to “Ancient Ancient Greece” or “Ancient Ancient Rome”??

    There are plenty of them, and even earlier ones. The article here was about the export of copper from Cyprus to Egypt. There is a photo of one of the 381 documents in the Amarna archive.
  68. +1
    22 December 2017 12: 14
    In 700 years they will say that there was no Second World War
  69. +1
    22 December 2017 12: 17
    Quote: Seal
    And the usual fast movement of cavalry took place at trots.

    The hour of trotting in armor was a punishment for the knights of the Teutonic Order and the Templar Order.
  70. +1
    22 December 2017 12: 42
    I don't have the patience to read everything. The article was written by a Russophobe. I read a lot of information and presented my own. Let's start in order: 1- the Polovtsians are not Slavs. I’ll explain with thousands of years of data: according to written Chinese data (the Qing Empire), when the first empire was formed, then when the borders were being drawn, they pushed the Scythians from Altai from their place (the princess there was a Scythian by genes, hair color and type of skull) the Persians have records that the Scythians during this migration they came to the Chimerian empire and assimilated with the Slavs of ancient Russia. The Polovtsians were Scythians in their skull and hair color, but there is a caveat - they had a lifestyle like the Alans. After all, the Don Cossacks are the descendants of the Polovtsians, and as history shows, the Cossacks used to live almost in yurts and settlements were called auls. 2 Khan Batu had a motley army (Genoese crossbowmen, Mongoloid archers, eastern cavalry, and a bunch of Central Asian tribes, including the Kipchaks (a Central Asian type of Scythians), Polovtsians, as well as squads of some princes of the Slavic states from the Rurik family. 3 Alexander Nevsky had family relations with the Scandinavian Vikings and was the posad prince of the Novgorod Republic, and together with his older brother he was the prince of the Vladimir-Suzdal principality. During Batu's invasion, not only Ryazan and the Ryazan principality, but also the Vladimir-Suzdal principality were burned. The elder brother of Alexander Nevsky fled to Sweden, where, through his family, he became one of the military leaders and kings of the Swedish Vikings (he participated in the war at Ladoga as part of the Swedish and Teutonic troops). Eastern Vikings (Pomeranians) lived on the coast of Pomerania. Norwegian Vikings went there along the northern route, and reached and traded as far as Suzdal. Norway and Sweden then fought for the northern lands of the Norwegian fur harvesters, and the Swedes also fought with Novgorod for the Finnish plots of the Novgorod fur harvesters. Alexander Nevsky wanted to marry his eldest son to the daughter of the Norwegian king, but the deal did not take place due to the invasion of Batu. As a sign of friendship, the Norwegian king gave the Pomeranians a plot of land and took about 50 settlers from the Vladimir-Suzdal lands to Norway. He also built a Catholic church for them. After Alexander Nevsky concluded an alliance not to invade the Horde against the Novgorod state and undertook to pay yasak, European states stopped considering the Novgorod state free (due to joining the Horde Kaganate). That’s when the Pope muddied the waters with history, and for several centuries before Ivan 3, Rus' was considered the patrimony of the Golden Horde. The Horde consisted of 3 hordes and the East Slavic Principalities subordinated to the dues. Although Batu himself was just a military commander of the Horde army (he was married to the granddaughter of Genghis Khan). The hordes often fought among themselves, although they were led by Genghis. Squads of Slavic princes also took part in these internecine wars. By the end of the 14th century, due to cross-marriages, the Slavic princes and Chingizites became relatives, and when the Golden Horde became sedentary and was left without a normal army, the Ushkuiniki constantly robbed the Horde and even taxed tribute from local princes.
  71. +2
    22 December 2017 12: 43
    Quote: Alexander Abiduev
    Gramotey, the Mongolian steppe horse, obtains food itself in winter, these are not your pampered geldings. In Siberia (where there is much more snow, as in Mongolia, your snow did not stand next to ours. Like frosts) steppe horses do not feed on oats in winter and etc., Google it, you’ll find out everything, but you don’t need a lot of intelligence to just sit and repeat like a sheep, the same horses of the Cossacks, they are of steppe blood, they never ate oats and are much more resilient, recently they reached Paris on their own legs (these are not racing horses horses. And how the Kalmyks came to the European part of present-day Russia, the Martians brought them there, the Kalmyks, the same Mongols.

    ..is it okay that the Mongolian nationality appeared only in the 20th century? The term Mongoloid race used to be. Like the Negroid race, like the Caucasoid race and the Australopoid race...
    Who needed this?
    The *boil* doesn’t jump up just like that..
  72. +1
    22 December 2017 13: 48
    The article is at a low theoretical level. A question has been raised. The article indicates that punitive operations in Rus' in the 13th-14th centuries were carried out without the participation of the ancestors of the population of modern Mongolia. It is indicated that in those days the Rus went against the Rus. If this is accepted, then the question arises: why did these events begin at this time? What was the cause and driving force? The author did not even come close to analyzing this. The author points out the actions of a Vatican agent. So the Vatican must be interested in something. But what? If there was an invasion of Rus' from outside and its enslavement, then for any country enslavement is a shameful page. If there were punitive operations, then these were internecine bloody wars within the country, or, as we just said, these were essentially civil wars. But any civil or fratricidal war is no less a shame. Why is the Vatican trying to replace one shameful page in history with another? What's the point? The author did not approach this analysis and has great doubts that he will. There is no analysis: why in 1204 Rus' united and went to Constantinople, i.e. to the city where the king was. (Second Rome). Are there any analogies here with the reasons for the campaign from provincial Nizhny Novgorod to the Third Rome (Moscow) in 1612? What significance did Constantinople have for Rus'? Let us remember that until the 13th century, Rus' received directives from there, and the princes carried them out and carried out events now called “baptism,” and there are several of these in the chronicles. After the fall of Constantinople, to whom did the title of king pass and when? What did the title of Tsar even mean if Ivan IV received it when his contemporaries called Moscow the Third Rome? Where was the second one? Where was the first one? In Italy or Egypt? Isn't this where the dog is buried? Isn’t this where a SYSTEM of myths arose, one of which is the myth about the invasion of the “Tatar-Mongols” instead of the Tartars and Mongols mentioned in the chronicles and possibly of Russian origin (in the modern sense).
  73. +5
    22 December 2017 14: 24
    Quote: merlin
    Do not think that I deny the Mongol-Tatar invasion or the yoke. It was!

    According to the principle “I believe it because it is absurd”?
    Let me remind you that our ancestors back in 1799, although already partially infected with Western ideas of the yoke, still thought differently.


    And in an even earlier document about the “Mongols” there is nothing at all. Actually, there is no mention of the Tatars either.
    Showing.


    Just in case, I show that on the next page there is neither the word “Tatar” (or its derivatives), nor, of course, the word “Mongol” (or its derivatives).

    Just as none of these now common terms (Mongol; Tatar-Mongol; Mongol-Tatar; Baskak; yoke, etc.) have so far been found in any of the birch bark letters found.
    Western alternativeists in the 16th and 17th centuries came up with God knows what about us, and today’s “history buffs” and “professional historians” are so fond of these Western alternative versions that they cannot part with them, they say, “there was a Mongol invasion, let’s get into it” . And they call this previously alternative version the official version. At the same time, those who want to reject this alternative version are called, oddly enough, by these current “history buffs” and “professional historians” “alternatives.” negative
    Wonderful are the deeds of history hi
  74. +3
    22 December 2017 14: 27
    Quote: Seeker
    I would like to remind all “expert” historians that at the beginning of the 13th century the Mongols conquered Khorasan and China,

    Do the Chinese know about this???
  75. +3
    22 December 2017 14: 44
    Quote: kalibr
    There are plenty of them, and even earlier ones. The article here was about the export of copper from Cyprus to Egypt. There is a photo of one of the 381 documents in the Amarna archive.

    How many times have I heard and seen similar expressions written. And no one has ever presented anything yet.
    Speaking of this “Amarna archive” of yours. In fact, this “archive” is the Tel El-Amarna Archive (Amarna Letters) - a collection of correspondence on clay tablets. Let me remind you that the clay is not dated, and there is nothing on the tablets that could help determine the time of their writing.
    In addition, the text of these tablets is written in a “language” conventionally called “Akkadian”. This Akkadian language was "deciphered" based on the Sumerian language. Where did that one come from?
    We take chips from hi With his permission hi
    In the 1970s, the highly qualified programmer Christoph Marx, who decided to get another, historical, education, sat down to study the stratigraphy of the excavations during which these Sumerian miracles were discovered, and was surprised to notice that the stratigraphic descriptions of the layers discovered by archaeologists in different parts of Mesopotamia were SIMILAR. You understand, this is nonsense. The sedimentary layers in the upper reaches of the Tigris River cannot be similar to the sedimentary layers in the lower reaches of the Euphrates. A rigorous stratigraphic examination of the ancient history of Mesopotamia led H. Marx to the conclusion that in reality (and not on paper) the Sumerian civilization did not exist.
    It is clear that Christoph Marx began asking questions to the professors, but the only thing this led to was that he was banned from attending some lectures. And this is where the problem arises. If the revision of the stratigraphy of the excavations indicates a forgery and in fact most of the excavations were not done, and the reports were written as carbon copies, then where did these engraved inscriptions on tombs, statues and vases, and most importantly, cuneiform tablets made of baked clay come from? There is an answer, since the romantic story of the discovery of clay books is very tearful, which is called “high calm”, described by scientific pop (Keram K. “Gods, Tombs and Scientists.” Novel of Archeology. M., 1963, St. Petersburg).
    Engraver at the origins of cuneiform
    The main character is a certain George Smith, an absolutely nondescript little man, not noted for anything other than this epoch-making discovery. Smith was born on March 26, 1840 in Chelsea, near London, left school early, trained as an engraver, and at the age of 26 suddenly published several large articles on cuneiform characters. Two years later, Smith became an assistant in the Egyptian-Assyrian department of the British Museum in London, where he analyzed tablets sent by Ormuzd Rassam, assistant resident (by the way, who served time for his activities in an Ethiopian prison). Among these tablets, Smith found fragments of Utnapishtim's story concerning biblical history.
    The deciphered text was made public, pious Britain was in excitement, and the Daily Telegraph newspaper even announced that it was ready to provide the sum of a thousand guineas to anyone who would go to Kuyundzhik in order to find the missing, but so necessary for the entire public, fragments of the legend of Gilgamesh. George Smith accepted the challenge of fate, went to the East and... - as they say, the incredible happened! – found the missing fragments!
    Here it is, a true success story: a simple engraver from Chelsea brought home 384 tablets, including the missing part of Utnapishtim's story, and the world turned upside down. There was a reason: the clay tablets told the story of the flood, which was later told in the Bible, for Utnapishtim was Noah - this was completely clear from the text of the poem. And for the first time, shocked Europe began to think that the truths contained in the Bible may not be original.
    We must, of course, remember that this epoch-making find was presented to an illiterate engraver from Chelsea by assistant resident Ormuzd Rasam. After all, it was he who sent the first tablets to Britain! But somehow not much is written about this[20]. It is also not often written about the connections between Ormuzd Rasam and the ambassadorial secretary named Austin Henry Layard, the future deputy minister of foreign affairs. Moreover, Layard is no stranger to archeology, and both of them, in the order of service hierarchy, were closely connected with the discoverer of the Sumerians, Consul General Rawlinson. It seems that their brilliant career rise was strictly linked to the success of their common hobby.
    And the engraver... well, the engraver made three trips, “bought from the local residents” another colossal treasure of 3000 tablets, carefully preserved for him by ancient engraver colleagues in clay pots, and when the tasks were completely exhausted, he drank the local water, contracted an infection, yes and died - there, in Aleppo. No more such libraries were found.
  76. +4
    22 December 2017 14: 55
    Quote: merlin
    Batu, he slaughtered the Kipchaks - he scouted out all the hay reserves in the steppe and burned them to hell, and without horses the Kipchaks immediately felt sad...

    Oh-oh-oh, did you burn it? Let's take your traditional version of the story and read:
    A thirty-thousand-strong Tatar-Mongol detachment, led by Jebe and Subedei, whose goal was to conduct reconnaissance in force in the Eastern European lands, in the spring of 1223 he went to the Polovtsian steppes. The remnants of one of the Polovtsian hordes, defeated by this detachment, fled across the Dnieper, and Khan Kotyan turned to the Galician prince Mstislav the Udal with a request for help.
    At the council of princes, it was decided to provide military assistance to the khan, and in April 1223 Russian regiments moved to the Dnieper.

    If our princes, according to what was once an alternative version of history, but which has become a “historical fact” after repeated repetition, set out on a campaign in April, then the “Mongols” beat the Polovtsians in March. That is, at a time when even if the hay had been stored up since last year, it had already been eaten, and the “Polovtsian horses” had already begun to eat fresh grass. Which is impossible to burn, because it doesn’t burn, it’s an infection. hi
  77. +2
    22 December 2017 15: 04
    Quote: RUSS
    Latins founded Rome, not Etruscan.

    Trojans, actually. Well, according to the official version of history.
    Rome was founded by the Trojans - Romulus and Remus.
    Romulus and Remus are descendants of Aeneas.
    Aeneas married the daughter of King Latinus, and their son built the city of Alba Longa.
    The princess of Alba Longa, Rhea Silvia gave birth to twins Romulus and Remus from the god Mars.
    That is why the Romans are patronized by Mars (father of Romulus and Remus) and Venus (mother of Aeneas).
    The Trojans (according to German scientists who conducted excavations in Turkey) are an Asia Minor Luwian tribe that had nothing in common with either the ancient Greek or Italian tribes.
    1. +1
      22 December 2017 16: 14
      The earth revolves around the sun and makes a revolution every 365 days 5 hours 48 minutes 48 seconds. Julius Caesar, based on the lunar and solar (Slavic) calendar, created his own calendar, which takes into account the discrepancy in the number of full days with a full revolution around the Sun. By observing the Sun, people saw. that throughout the year (365 days) the length of the day changes and four days are repeated: the shortest, the longest, and the equinoxes. Every four years they began to add a day: February 29. But after 128 years they saw that the calendar with the 4th leap year was inaccurate. They move forward and the shortest and longest days and the equinoxes shift. We know that one phenomenon is a case, two are a pattern, and three are statistics. The Church burned those who claimed that the Earth revolved around the Sun, but it also made changes to the Julian calendar and introduced the Gregorian calendar. When? After how many periods of error growth? It is clear that no more than three. 128*3=384. If the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582, then the Julian should be introduced: (1582-384=1198) in 1198 or a little earlier, but not much earlier, since both the Julian and Gregorian calendars are the product of observations of the Sun, which were carried out continuously , because the discrepancy in 4 years can be seen by one generation, and in 128 years by several. Thus, Julius Caesar, as the author of the calendar, lived in the 12th century, and tales about “ancient” Rome were written later. Around the 15th-16th centuries. The Colosseum in Rome was built in the 19th century, as indicated by the plaque on it (during the time of Pius XI). As the author of the calendar, "Julius Caesar" must occupy a position in society like Gregory, who was the Pope or Emperor like Peter (transferred Russia from one calendar to another) or the head of the Government like Lenin (translated the calendar in 1918 to the new (Gregorian) style) . The years of Christ's life were calculated by Matvey Vlastar in the 15th century. Copies of his works have survived. They contain the results both in a simple, understandable form, and in a version understandable only to specialists: the circle of the Moon, the circle of the Sun, and the indict are indicated. Russian mathematicians deciphered and received the birth: 1095. We found errors in the calculations, recalculated and it turned out: December 25, 1151 according to Julian or January 1, 1152 according to Gregorian. Thus, Julius Caesar lived in the 12th century, had a high position in society and was an emperor, his name was Jesus Christ, in Jerusalem (the second Rome) they massacred him, as the emperor was tied to a cross as a mockery and placed on the highest place (Mt. Golgotha), and of course the Bible was edited or oral tradition was edited (which is not difficult).
    2. +2
      22 December 2017 16: 25
      Back in the 19th century, the Italian scientist Ciampi, having mastered Polish, discovered that the Etruscans wrote in the Slavic language. The Polish scientist Wolansky continued his research, but his works were burned, and he himself was almost executed (Nicholas I interceded). However, the Russian Orthodox Church did not recommend that the tsar make this widely public. But today it is known that Etruscans were written by people from Mogilev (Belarus)
  78. The comment was deleted.
  79. +1
    22 December 2017 15: 14
    Quote: kalibr
    “The easiest thing was to ridicule Fomenko, but never give an adequate refutation or explanation for the inconsistencies he found,” - read Danilevsky’s course of lectures on the history of Rus', at least for starters

    Which Danilevsky are we talking about? Nikolai Yakovlevich Danilevsky, or from the 5th column, whose biography is from the middle, and before that he was silent?
  80. 0
    22 December 2017 15: 18
    Quote: Seal
    They beat the Polovtsians in March. That is, at a time when even if the hay had been stocked up since last year, it had already been eaten, and the “Polovtsian horses” had already begun to eat fresh grass

    Weather in Chernigov
    March
    Average temperature during the day:
    4.9°C
    Average temperature at night:
    -0.3 ° C
    Number of sunny days:
    6 days
    Length of daylight hours:
    10.9 - 12.9 hours
    Number of rainy days:
    1 day
    Precipitation:
    38.5 mm
    Number of snow days:
    1 day
    The grass has grown!!!!
    Especially when you consider that the thirteenth century was the beginning of the Little Ice Age, that is, obviously colder than now.
    Kalki district
    Weather in Donetsk
    March
    Average temperature during the day:
    5.8°C
    Average temperature at night:
    0.7°C
    Number of sunny days:
    8 days
    Length of daylight hours:
    11.1 - 12.8 hours
    Number of rainy days:
    2 day
    Precipitation:
    28.5 mm
  81. The comment was deleted.
  82. +1
    22 December 2017 15: 34
    Of course, the article is undoubtedly a hoax. But I'm a little shocked. How many Russians are really interested in Russian history now? Maybe VO is not an indicator. But I observe a real surge, a real desire to understand what Rus' is.
    I respect you. This is somewhat reminiscent of the birth of Zionism.

    1. 0
      22 December 2017 16: 33
      It would be good if, after such “outbursts”, people went to read PSRL, the 20-volume ARCHEOLOGY OF RUSSIA, subscribed to the magazine Rodina, Questions of History, History of State and Law, History Illustrated. But this is not and will not happen. The most read author on VO is Gumilyov and... that's all. Others are occasionally mentioned. So everything will remain as is. People have no money or leisure. For those who are interested. And whoever has both money and leisure is not interesting, and neither is VO. That's all.
    2. 0
      23 December 2017 01: 13
      You won't wait. I hope we can resist this evil (fascism), as our ancestors successfully fought against it.
  83. The comment was deleted.
    1. Net
      +2
      22 December 2017 21: 14
      How about seeing it for yourself? Not? Where is the Sun and where does the shadow from the towers with loopholes fall?
  84. +2
    22 December 2017 16: 05
    Quote: kalibr
    Links, links to archaeological data. I have a museum in Penza, in the Zolotarevsky settlement. It contains a bunch of Mongolian arrowheads identical to arrowheads from the territory of Mongolia.

    The fortress city of Penza was founded in 1663 under Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich as an outpost on the southeastern outskirts of the state, which was easy and unprotected prey for the steppe nomads. In May 1663, Yuri Ermolaevich Kotransky, who was previously the governor of the city of Balakhna, “to build a city,” arrived on the Penza River with a hundred Cherkasy Cossacks. He became the founder and first builder of the city. In a fairly short time, a wooden Kremlin was erected.
    For many years, the Penza fortress served as a reliable barrier against the nomads - the Kuban and Nogai hordes. Penza was attacked by nomads in 1668, 1680 and 1717. but they never managed to capture the fortress.
    Well, the fact is that the tips are similar - so here are some examples:
    These are the arrowheads of the "Scythians"

    And this is
    Indians from North America.
    It is a

    - from Tanzania (East Africa).

    Only the Japanese ones are clearly different from the rest.

    hi
    Why are your arrowheads from near Penza “ancient Mongolian”, and not Nogai or, for example, Kalmyk?
    Oh yes, you will say that there were no Kalmyks near Penza. But the Nagais could buy Kalmyk (and Kalmyks are Mongoloids) arrowheads from the Kalmyks. Or they could have taken it in battle. Or they simply collected the enemy’s arrows (the Nogais and Kalmyks were not friends with each other and often fought) and used them for their own needs.

    There is no need to multiply entities unnecessarily. Especially if there is a simple explanation.
  85. 0
    22 December 2017 16: 25
    Quote: Seal
    Why are your arrowheads from near Penza “ancient Mongolian”, and not Nogai or, for example, Kalmyk?

    I wrote to you about the Zolotarevskoye settlement, and not about Penza. These are different things. And I don’t need to quote excerpts from Wiki; I know everything about Penza much better than you.
  86. +2
    22 December 2017 16: 33
    Quote: Field wind
    They came to Sit from Uglich. On light luggage. They returned there. All this took a short period of time. They could have done without convoys.

    Well, nevertheless, there will be about a hundred kilometers on the roads. Or even a little more. And then we count. The Mongolian horse has a speed of 5-6 km/hour. Daylight hours in winter are 6 hours. Oh yes, according to the official version of history, the Mongols also carried “stone throwers” ​​with them. Well then the speed decreases even more.
    The width of the forest road is, well, as wide as a cart. That is, one rider will pass, but two nearby will be crowded. Well, okay, let the “Mongols” march two horsemen abreast. Everyone also has a spare horse. And somewhere else they are carrying stone throwers. The length of the Mongolian horse is 2 meters. The interval between pairs of riders (or their spare horses) is at least 2 meters. In total, each pair of riders occupies:
    2 meters - the riders themselves on their horses
    2 meters - the distance between them and their spare horses
    2 meters - the distance between the spare horses and the next pair of riders behind
    2 meters is the distance between the riders and the spare horses of those in front.
    In total, a pair of riders occupies 8 meters of the forest road.
    That is, 250 horsemen can fit on one kilometer of forest road.
    At 10 kilometers there are 2500 riders.
    And how much do you say went to “Sit” from “Uglich”? 250 thousand? And even with stone throwers?
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 22: 07
      Quote: Seal
      That is, 250 horsemen can fit on one kilometer of forest road.
      At 10 kilometers there are 2500 riders.

      ===
      Why did you decide? that they are all traveling the same road, and not ten or several dozen, but to different goals and from different directions! as historians write, an army breaks up in groups of 10-15 thousand, and this is a self-sufficient combat unit that is capable of taking most settlements and towns. For a larger target, several units are united.
      1. +2
        25 December 2017 13: 47
        Read less “historians” and think more. And look at the maps. It is believed that the “Tatars” (then “Tatar-Mongols”, then “Mongol-Tatars”, and then simply “Mongols”) went to Sit from Uglich. Question - how many roads from Uglich to Rybinsk were there in the 18th century? What time is 17? What time is it at 16? How many theoretical roads could there have been in the 13th century?
        Read the memoirs of veterans of the Napoleonic wars, how wide our roads were even at the beginning of the 19th century in the most commercially used direction, along which Napoleon actually advanced.
        Oh my god as historians write, an army breaks up in groups of 10-15 thousand, and this is a self-sufficient combat unit; they travel not one road, but ten or several dozen. And all of them, without any radio communication, manage to almost simultaneously leave for the same place from these several dozen different directions. What, for example, the Red Army essentially failed to do until 1945.
  87. +2
    22 December 2017 16: 38
    Quote: Serg65
    Cheers from Mongolian Urai

    The British, who used this very cry “hooray” at least in the 15th century, are aware that they also had to take it from “Mongol”?
  88. +2
    22 December 2017 16: 38
    Quote: Luga
    militant degenerates from history.

    Is that you looking in the mirror?
  89. 0
    22 December 2017 16: 39
    Quote: Seal
    Let me remind you that the clay is not dated, and there is nothing on the tablets that could help determine the time of their writing.

    Who told you that clay is not dated? Just dates and very good. There was also my article on historical research methods and different types of dating. Look at both articles, they are here on VO. And on the finds of the Zolotarnevsky settlement, there was also my article here and there is a monograph by Professor Belorybkin, where all their graphic drawings are given. There are monographs by Khudyakov, Gorelik and Solovyov on this topic. They dug, they looked, they compared. The historical community agrees with them. You may disagree, but who are you?
    And there’s no need to talk about Occam’s razor. I know.
  90. +3
    22 December 2017 16: 47
    Quote: Wend
    And why did Rome need this? The nonsense of the 90s continues to march through the pages of books and websites. Author, what about the Mongolian legends about Temujin-Genghis Khan?

    Supposedly "found" in the 19th century in Chinese?
    Quote: Wend
    How is the population of Rus' declining?

    Please enlighten us on how many people Rus' had as of 1000 AD, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400. How many people actually lived in the world?
    Quote: Wend
    What about archaeological excavations and burned cities?

    Don’t want to count how many times Kyiv, for example, burned (including from fires) due to the so-called “Tatar-Mongol invasion”
    Quote: Wend
    And what about the statements of the Orthodox Church about well-deserved punishment in the form of the Mongol-Tatars?

    And the statements that Samson had the jawbone of a donkey....
    Quote: Wend
    What about the battle on Kalka?

    Yes, there were about five battles on this Kalka.
    Quote: Wend
    What about standing on the Ugra River?

    Moreover, it is unclear why they stood and why the “Tatars” suddenly ran away.
    Quote: Wend
    Tribute to the Crimean and Kazan khans in later times? If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the figuratively speaking “struggle for independence” of Rus' from the Golden Horde arise? Was it blown by the wind?

    Sorry, but let's figure it out, what exactly is “tribute”? New History knows documented cases of paying “tribute,” so to speak. So, for example, the Austrian Emperor, who is also the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation, for some time paid tribute to the Sultan of Turkey in order for the Sultan to leave the borders of the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation alone.
    The Polish king did the same for some time. Who also made contributions to the treasury of the Sultan of Turetsky both through the Crimean Khan and directly. But would anyone, with a firm mind and sound memory, undertake to assert that there was a "Turkish yoke" in the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation or in Rzecz Pospolita?
    An even more illustrative example can be given. Even in the 17th and 18th centuries, many European countries paid "tribute" to the Algerian bey. It would seem, where is Sweden, Denmark, Hamburg or Lubeck - and where is Algeria? But Sweden, Denmark, German coastal cities had their own merchant fleet, which went to the Mediterranean Sea. And the Algerian Bey had pirates. And he was guided by the formula - who wants my pirates not to touch your merchant ships - pay "tribute."
    Of the German coastal states, Hanover, Prussia, Bremen, Lübeck and Hamburg paid obligatory tribute to the pirates of North Africa.
    At the end of the 3th century, historian Ernst Baasch collected documents available in Hamburg about negotiations between the Hamburg Senate and the Bey of Algiers. According to these documents, the Hamburg merchant Jacob Govaerts, who lived in Marseille for a long time, was chosen as a mediator. Communication with the Algerian government was carried out by the French consul in Algeria, who received 3 thousand thalers in advance. Members of the Algerian government were also paid from 4 to XNUMX thousand thalers.
    In accordance with the directive given to him, Goverts, who arrived in Algeria in 1749, received the right to pay up to 30 thousand thalers in the form of bribes. And it took him almost two years to negotiate terms of the contract acceptable to Hamburg.
    The Bey of Algiers demanded a tribute of weapons, ammunition and equipment for ships. When doubts arose about this, the Hamburg Senate decided: “No one will make the slightest reproach for these supplies to our city, since Holland, Sweden and Denmark did the same before us.”
    The treaty was signed on February 28, 1751, and on April 5 it was ratified by Hamburg. The amounts of one-time and annual obligatory tribute were indicated in a special secret clause of the agreement. The open text contained concessions to Hamburg.
    Excuse me, are you sure that there was an Algerian invasion of Hamburg?
  91. +2
    22 December 2017 16: 56
    Quote from Korsar4
    This is our story. And you can’t turn into Ivanov, who don’t remember kinship

    But our ancestors, in the description of the history of the Muscovite kingdom in the Approved Charter of 1613, do not know any of the things you listed. So he actually doesn’t remember the relationship?
  92. +2
    22 December 2017 16: 59
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Rashid ad-Din Fazlullah Hamadani. Collection of annals. - T. 1. Prince 1. Per. L. A. Khetagurova, 1952
    Rashid ad-Din Fazlullah Hamadani. Collection of annals. - T. 1. Prince 2. Per. O. I. Smirnova, 1952;

    He is a Muslim, isn't he?
    And can you give an example of even a certain Muslim writer of the “time” or later, who instead of counting the time according to the Hijra decided to suddenly use the Chinese calendar for dating, and he also started the heading “It was a year Pigs".
    Yes, any Muslim cuts off his hand, which brought this phrase.
    1. 0
      24 December 2017 09: 31
      Go to the mosque to the mullah and ask...
  93. +2
    22 December 2017 17: 01
    Quote: Boris55
    You don’t know with whom A. Nevsky fought on Lake Peipsi?


    And where is it?
  94. +2
    22 December 2017 17: 02
    Quote: Dzungar
    Gyyyyy ...! Rzhu .....!

    Not for the first time!! Maybe you're... hungry???
  95. +2
    22 December 2017 17: 07
    Quote: BlombiRus
    We have always had CHRONICLES.

    And in many chronicles there are empty years. In some of them it is written “There will be nothing.”
    If chronicles were written, so to speak, along the way, then at least something would be written. Someone was born, got married, died, went somewhere, got sick, had a feast, built something, or vice versa - destroyed. Or it just fell apart.....
    And when there are such empty gaps, this indicates that the chronicles were composed retroactively.
  96. +3
    22 December 2017 17: 15
    Quote: merlin
    Maybe. In general, I agree with you; Balashov’s turn out to be interesting.

    The orcs' campaign against Gondor is no less interesting.
  97. +3
    22 December 2017 17: 16
    Quote: SpnSr
    Russian word adjective! This is belonging to a certain circle of people.

    Exactly. V.I. Dal was German on his mother’s side, his relatives on Freitagi’s mother’s side were German, his sister married a German; his mother, having become a widow, lived in Dorpat; Dahl himself received higher education at the German University of Dorpat; While studying there, he moved mainly in German society; Later, while serving in St. Petersburg as a medical officer, Dahl was also among the Germans. According to Melnikov, “although Dahl was completely Russian, thanks to his non-Russian nickname (and education at the University of Dorpat, we add), he enjoyed the sympathy and goodwill of the German doctors who then ruled St. Petersburg medicine and jealously guarded their practice and their income from doctors of Russian origin." Indeed, the Germans considered V.I. Dal to be one of their own, a German.
    Shortly before Dahl's death, however, his Germans' Derpt friends, apparently, were attacked by some doubt. According to Melnikov, they demanded a categorical answer from him, who is he, Russian or German.
    Here is what Dahl replied to them: “Neither nickname, nor religion, nor the blood of ancestors make a person an belonging to one or another nationality. The spirit, the soul of man - that’s where you need to look for his belonging to one or another people. How can one determine the belonging of the spirit? Of course, the manifestation of the spirit, thought. Whoever thinks in what language, belongs to that people. I think in Russian "...
    There are and can be different peoples in Russia: Slavs, Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Komi, Udumrts, Mordovians, Mari, Chechens, Ingush... Jews... and so on. But if each individual person feels himself to be a single component of a great country, if in him public interests prevail over personal ones, if he has an imperial spirit, if he thinks in Russian from the position of general imperial, and not local interests, and especially not from the position of personal interests, then he is RUSSIAN. Accordingly, in Russia, all those who think in Russian, who are Russian in spirit, are Russians. Russian Slavs, Russian Tatars, Russian Bashkirs, Russian Mari, Russian Yakuts, Russian Buryats, Russian Chechens, Russian Ingush, Russian Udmurts, Russian Komi, Russian Jews... and even Russian blacks are already found. There were and are Russian Georgians - the most obvious example of a Russian Georgian is I.V. Stalin. There were even Russians of Armenian origin - Valerian Madatov and Air Marshal S.A. Khudyakov are the best examples of this.
    But, unfortunately, there may be non-Russian Slavs. And since even the Slavs can be non-Russian, then of course, there were and can be non-Russian representatives of all other peoples.
  98. +2
    22 December 2017 17: 18
    Quote: Field wind
    Quote: ver_

    . The loopholes in the *Great Wall of China are directed towards China,


    Who even comes up with this nonsense? Isn’t it fate to look at Yandex panoramas indicating the cardinal directions and not be convinced for yourself that the loopholes are facing north?

    ...the loopholes look north in those places where tourists visit (this is a redevelopment - a remake - a falsification) .. The entire history of China was falsified in the 17th century ...E_V_N,
  99. +2
    22 December 2017 17: 18
    Quote: aybolyt678
    Secondly: on Evpatiya Kolovrat, Kozelsk, they cultivated the fighting spirit of Russian boys, when you can die with honor in battle with superior enemy forces. By turning history upside down, we disrupt the already broken system of educating a defender.

    Russia survived in many real wars. But our ancestors were not under any “yoke”. The version that Russia was under the Tatar yoke (which in the 18-19 centuries was transformed first into the "Tatar-Mongolian", then into the "Mongol-Tatar", and now many use the term "Mongolian" yoke ") was thrown to us by Catholics, revenge for the fact that our ancestors did not recognize the authority of the Pope. And so that we better swallow this main stuffing about the “300 year old yoke,” we wrapped it in a beautiful colorful wrapper from a number of “feats.” This includes the feat of the concrete Evpatiya Kolovrat ", and" Defense of Kozelsk. "Unfortunately, singing these feats, we thereby pr We extend and extend the life of this stupid version that the “Mongols” once allegedly conquered us and that we were allegedly under their “300-year-old yoke”.
    In our history, a huge number of real feats have been accomplished. We have something to chant in more than enough.
    And in relation to Evpathy Kolovrat, one must always make a reference that this feat is akin to the deeds of Heracles or Theseus. That is, from the field of heroic legends. Especially for young people. Otherwise, they can also take up the rotten idea that was born to us once at the Office of one of the Roman popes, that our Motherland could be captured by enemies for some time, but then we’ll surely get together and free ourselves, as if already once we succeeded in the "Mongol-Tatars". No, this liberal idea about the possible seizure of the homeland must be strangled in the bud. No enemy can capture our Motherland.
  100. +2
    22 December 2017 17: 23
    Quote: kalibr
    Who told you that clay is not dated? Just dates and very good.

    Alas, not dated.
    They are trying to suggest a dating method based on the residual water content (this applies to pottery objects) - but this method, in my opinion, is fantasy.
    Don’t you get the laurels of party secretaries who dealt with personal affairs with special zeal?
    1. 0
      24 December 2017 09: 28
      No, I just always found the opinions or views of junior haulers of sewage trucks judging Rembrandt’s paintings funny.