Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia

1 049
Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia 780 years ago, on the night of 20 on 21 December 1237, the troops of Batu stormed Ryazan. The "Tatar-Mongol" invasion began. We should know and remember that the fake about the “Mongols from Mongolia” was launched by Catholic Rome - the then “command post” of the Western community.

Hordes of Batu attacked Russia, took Ryazan, ruined the Ryazan principality, the invasion of other Russian lands began, cities and villages burned, fierce battles were fought - all this historical truth. The horde of the Great Khan Prince Batu prevailed over fragmented Russia, where most of the princes "pulled a blanket" over themselves. The fragmentation of Russia did not allow the gathering of a common army, which could repel the invasion of the steppes.



At the same time, we must remember that the myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was launched by the papal spy Plano Carpini and other agents of Rome. No Mongols from Mongolia ever reached Russia. It was simply impossible - a huge army of hundreds of thousands of warriors and even more horses could not be fed. Yes, the Mongols in this period simply did not correspond to the great conquerors who decided to conquer the whole "universe." They were at a low stage of development - the expansion of tribal relations; they had neither military-economic potential, nor human resources, nor the corresponding drive.

As you know from history, Great empires and powers are created by adding up several factors: 1) military and economic potential, the ability to expose, arm and supply a powerful army; 2) advanced technology, military revolution, for example, domestication of a horse and its use in military affairs, iron weapon, Macedonian phalanx, Roman legions, etc .; 3) demographic factor - the conquering people must have the appropriate size in order to expose a large army and control the conquered space; 4) passionarity is a great idea, mission, ability to go to death for a great cause.

For example, these factors have the current American empire - the “world gendarme”: the first economy of the world and the most powerful military-industrial complex, the armed forces controlling a large part of the planet; advanced developments in the military field; a significant population - more than 325 million people (third place in the world); American messianism - the construction of the American world order, the protection of "democracy" and "human rights". In the past, similar factors can be identified in the Soviet Union (Red Empire), the Russian Empire, the Second and Third Reichs (Germany), and the Roman Empire. Another example is the empire of Alexander the Great: the military and financial reforms of Tsar Philip created the military-economic potential for conquest, the Macedonian phalanx was a revolution in military affairs; Alexander and his warriors were real passionaries, ready to overcome fire and water for the sake of their goal.

Thus, a handful of Mongolian shepherds and hunters, who had neither military-industrial base and organization, nor the corresponding number and fighting spirit, could in no way conquer the Rurikovich empire, even fragmented. No great leader, such as Temujin-Genghis Khan, would be able to create an invincible invasion army capable of crushing a number of strong states, conquering China, and fighting to Central Europe from small and half-wilder clans that do not have the appropriate technological and production base.

Iron discipline, the decimal system of organization of the troops, the great archers and horsemen all this already. In particular, in the Russian squads. Since ancient times, the Russian squad and rati were divided into dozens, hundreds, thousands and darkness (10 thousand fighters). Russian complex bow was much more powerful and long-range of the famous English bow.

"Mongols" and "Tatars" - representatives of the Mongoloid race, who subjugated a significant part of Eurasia, simply did not exist. However, there was an ancient Scythian-Siberian world of the Rus-pagans, inheriting the traditions of many millennia, going back to the times of the Aryans and Hyperboreans. These were the heirs of the oldest, having its origins in the very beginning of the white race, the northern civilization. From the legendary Hyperborea, the Aryan world and the Great Scythiaoccupying a vast territory from the Pacific Ocean, the borders of China, India and Persia to the Baltic and the Black (Russian) Sea. Actually, the Russian civilization and the Russian superethnos, as a direct heir of the ancient northern tradition, still occupy most of this territory. The spiritual, cultural and military impulses of this northern civilization led to the birth and development of Ancient Persia, India (they still remember their northern homeland), China and other civilizations.

Scythian-Siberian Rus in anthropological (white skin, bright eyes, tall), cultural (common traditions, customs, faith, material culture, including weapons and combat skills), economic relations were direct relatives of the Rusam who lived in Ryazan, Vladimir -Suzdal, Novgorod and Kiev and Galician Russia. Before the West destroyed the Slavorian tribes of Central Europe (Porussia-Prussia, Germany, Austria, Northern Italy), they were also part of a huge super-ethnos Rus, a single ethno-cultural and linguistic community.

The peculiarity of the Scythian-Siberian world of the Rus was that they led semi-nomadic (developed animal husbandry) for thousands of years and at the same time the agricultural way of life. They also kept the pagan faith. True, the Russes of Vladimir-Suzdal, Novgorod Russia, for the most part, were still double-believers, retaining many pagan beliefs and rituals.

Only this huge fragment of the Great Scythia - the Scythian-Siberian world, which had a thousand-year history, a powerful military production base, a considerable number, and fighting spirit, could put out a strong army, which once again shook the world. It was they who conquered Central Asia, China, defeated and subjugated another fragment of the Great Scythia - the Polovtsy (they also were not “Mongoloids”, but typical Northern Caucasians), the Volgars-Bulgarians (Tatars), invaded Russia, and then moved into Europe. The horde is Rod, Rada, tumen - darkness, the word Khan comes from "Kohang, Kokhany," beloved, respected. "

The so-called "Mongols" did not bring to Russia a single Mongolian word and not a single skull of a representative of the Mongoloid race. "Mongols" in Russia was not. "Tatar-Mongols", Polovtsians and Russes of Ryazan, Vladimir and Kiev were representatives of a single super-ethnos. Therefore, later, when the administrative center of the Eurasian Empire moved from Saray to Moscow, the vast majority of the population of the Horde simply became Russian. Since there were no anthropological, indigenous linguistic and cultural differences between Russians from Moscow and Kiev and the Horde. If at the time of the Golden Horde, the population of the Horde and Russia was approximately equal, then after the fall of the Horde Empire, most of its population (former Polovtsians) became Russian. At the same time, the Russians did not receive Mongoloid features (Mongoloid features are dominant), nor Mongolian words.

It should be remembered that the war was, the battles of the Russians of Ryazan, Vladimir, Chernigov and Kiev and the pagans of the Scythian-Siberian world were tough. It was a terrifying scramble, Big Strife. So only Rus can fight. Prince Batu won this war. At the same time, they both fought and framed, as happened with Prince Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky and Baty and his son, were related (as before with the Polovtsy - they were their own, not strangers), spoke the same language, quarreled again, fought and put up. Later, and completely mixed. Some of the Russo-Scythians adopted Orthodoxy, another settled in the Golden Horde, Central Asia and China — the princely and imperial dynasties of the local tribes gave it to the local tribes (all this happened before, in the times of Great Scythia).

The fact that Western historians falsifiers called the Great Empire of Genghis Khan, in fact, was the Great Empire of the Rus. They began to rewrite history a long time ago, not in the 20th century, when Westerners, for example, made the revision of the Great War to their advantage. Historians of the Romano-Germanic world, chroniclers of the Roman Catholic Church, historians of the East Roman (Byzantine) and Roman empires copied history. Rome, the most ancient “command center” of governing the West, is the real center for distorting the history of mankind. The masters of the West cannot recognize that Russia-Russia, the Russian super-ethnos are the direct heirs and guardians of the most ancient northern civilization of humanity. This is a question of the “big game”, of geopolitics - the many thousands-year struggle for the right to be the “king of the mountain” - the owner of the planet. Do not recognize it in Japan and China, hiding traces of an ancient civilization. Only in India they say directly that their ancestors of the aria came from the north, from Russia. That Russians and white Indians are descendants of one great race. Only Russians are descendants of those who remained on a common ancestral homeland, retaining their language and physical attributes. And the Indians "turned black" in the south. However, it was the Indians who preserved the ancient Vedic mythology, and India is a kind of "reserve" of our ancient traditions and customs. Hence the spiritual affinity of Russians and Hindus.

The masters of the West distort world history, replacing the true history with fakes, destroy and hide the true monuments of the past, stick out and expand the chronological framework of the “historical nations” - the British, Germans, French, Italians, Jews, etc. At the same time, they cut and distort the history of Slavs and Russ -Russian, pesting the myths of "wildness", "inferiority", "inferiority", "secondary" of Russia, which is always supposedly borrowed everything from the West or the East, etc. This is an information war. And the story plays a leading role in it. Managing history allows you to "program" the course of events for centuries to come. Even create new “peoples”, like “Ukrainians”, who are Russian, but turn into a “independent” people separate from the Russians.

Ruined the Great Empire of the Rus new conceptual and ideological sabotage. In the south, they began to introduce Islam, in which part of the elite elite was interested. This was the main cause of the split, unrest and further disintegration. Islam, which originated in the Semitic environment, introduced into the society of Indo-Europeans-Aryans, the unusual beginnings and customs, leading to the degeneration and degeneration of the marginal families of the Rus. The most striking example is Iran (“the state of the Aryans”). Persia - Indo-European, whose Aryan population was forced to convert to Islam. As a result, Semitization (Arabization) and Islamization of one of the ancient Aryan civilizations occurred.

However, the empire of Genghis Khan did not die. Northern civilization, as it was more than once in the past, took a new form. The control center shifted from the Horde to Moscow. There was a merger of European and Scythian-Siberian Rus. This made Russia a continental empire, from ocean to ocean. And Russia again challenged the masters of the West. The Big Game continues.

Thus, there were no “Mongols from Mongolia” in Russia. Clan-hordes of Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, stretching from the Northern Black Sea coast to the Altai and Sayans, including Mongolia, came to European Russia. The ancestors of the current Mongols were then at a low stage of development, were hunters, cattlemen, did not have the military-industrial, demographic and cultural potential for great conquests. Rus-Scythians were Caucasians, Aryans-Rus - Rus Pagan, Asian. In fact, two passionary nuclei of a single superethnos of the Rus, the European and the Asian, collided. Two parts of the Great Scythia, the ancient northern civilization, which existed for thousands of years from the Pacific Ocean to the Varangian and Russian (Black) seas, the Carpathians, from the Arctic Ocean to the borders of China, India and Persia.

It is later that the southern genera of the Rus will be Islamized, subjected to assimilation by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Semitic peoples of Asia. But in the XIII century the Rus-Scythians came to Russia, and not the “Mongols” or the Turks. And as we know from history, the most fierce, fierce battles are internecine when a brother rises against a brother. The battle was fierce, many cities and villages were turned to ashes, many thousands of people were killed.

But every cloud has a silver lining. At first, European Russia became part of a huge empire - the Golden Horde. Then, with the degradation, destruction of the Horde, inspired by our external enemies, its collapse, the new center of the Eurasian Empire, the Ruses, matured. The empire of Rurikovich turned under Ivan the Terrible into the Eurasian Russian Empire. The Russians again united the vast territory of the ancient northern civilization into a single state. The descendants of the Horde russians became part of a single super-ethnos of the Rus. Russia became the heir of the ancient super-civilization. The West could not get dominance on the planet, and the war was continued.

To be continued ...
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  1. +80
    21 December 2017 05: 57
    What can I say .. Better without any comments ..)
    1. +41
      21 December 2017 07: 29
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      What can I say ..

      We must say honestly and bluntly: This author’s article is the best in his series of articles on this topic.. If you have doubts about the essence of the article, then explain your position on fragments that are not clear to you. The article is written extremely briefly but very richly, many readers may have some ambiguities in the presentation of the material. Want to understand in more detail - we will help!
      1. +25
        21 December 2017 07: 58
        And what scientific papers do you have, assistant?
        1. +31
          21 December 2017 11: 16
          There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria. It is also in the drawing book of Siberia, Remezov. There are Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling. And who said that the inhabitants of Tartaria were pagans .. Sun worshipers, yes, and this is primarily an understanding of their environment and its place in Space. They cherished their habitat, not like "true followers of different faiths", such as Christianity ,, Islam, Judaism ... These can only be taken! What, for example, is the attitude now to the bowels, bioresources? Nowhere else to go. The purpose of the campaign of tartaria was not enslavement, but to liberate the fraternal community of people from the consequences of Western influence. The essence of “Christians2 is from the Vatican. Like now from Uncle Sam’s Shrewd Democrats. (Still ahead) Historical development is a spiral, everything repeats.
          1. +36
            21 December 2017 11: 24
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria.

            Hm. It’s a pity to ruin your fantastic picture of the world, but ... The maps you are talking about were created in feudal Europe. In the understanding of Europeans, Tataria is the Horde with the states repaired by it. Therefore, Russia, as a tributary of the Horde on the maps, was included in its composition.
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling.

            Not from the ceiling, but written by a specific person by the name of Khinevich to ensure their selfish goals.
            1. +21
              21 December 2017 11: 36
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              .. (Vedas) are written by a specific person by the name of Khinevich to ensure their selfish goals.

              In what millennium did the legendary "man by the name of Hinevich" live? The Vedas came to India from the north 3500 years ago, the Vedas of the Avesta were written 1800 years ago, and the Vedas, Slavic-Aryan, were issued by the emperor, emperor Father Alexander II (have they been written now?). Check your knowledge more closely, otherwise a person with the image of a "monarchist" has so sharply opposed all monarchies over the past few millennia. Amazing right?
              1. +25
                21 December 2017 12: 35
                Quote: venaya
                "Vedas, Slavic-Aryan" issued by the Emperor Emperor Father Alexander II

                Oh really? And do you have an original copy signed by Emperor Alexander II? A certain Mr. Asov (an accomplice of Hinevich) in the 90s threw in the version that these Vedas were allegedly secretly published by some kind of society under the direction of Alexander II, only ... neither the originals of this publication, nor the memoirs of contemporaries about this edition nowhere no. Nowhere ... except for references in the opuses of Hinevich and Asov.
                1. +18
                  21 December 2017 12: 41
                  Oh really? And do you have an original copy signed by Emperor Alexander II?
                  Whether or not there is a specimen, this is not known to science. But it’s known that, Ukraine and Russia today, what the author writes about, the brothers lash each other for fun to the west, in Ukraine today, the history is rewritten yesterday. Or do you also not know this? I think if everything is left as it is, then according to historical facts, books, Ukraine will become Olympus, forgetting its roots, it will become like Poland, Slovakia, Serbia, Greece, Slavic roots in the middle of the EU, where from?
                  1. +23
                    21 December 2017 13: 06
                    Excuse me, what does Ukraine have to do with it? My comment was about a fake called "Slavic-Aryan Vedas", which was thrown into Russian society in the 90s.
                    1. +18
                      21 December 2017 16: 15
                      You need to look broader)))) The whole story is rewritten, figure out where the truth is and where is the fiction, I personally believe more in legends, and not historians with their publications, one hundred people, one hundred opinions)))) Maybe I'm wrong, then correct, but please The Bible began with 10 commandments. You read the message of Enoch which is not included in the Bible in the modern edition. The gap pattern will be.
                      1. +14
                        21 December 2017 23: 21
                        Quote: Sirocco
                        but the Bible began with the 10 commandments.

                        You read the commandments yourself carefully, according to the syllable, the commandments are very different, only 5 of them can be considered genuine not rewritten, "honor father and mother," do not kill, "" do not steal, "" do not commit adultery, "" do not give false witness, "all the others or written or even invented, especially the commandments about slaves as property. God created people equal in his image and likeness, all descended from "Adam and Eve", where could the slaves come from? And why did the Lord suddenly begin to protect slavery in his commandments? Why does the Lord need prayers and reverence for people? God the Creator and Creator he is superior to all sorts of "forgive your slave," stupid, it looks like that.
                      2. +8
                        22 December 2017 04: 58
                        Quote: Sirocco You read the message of Enoch which is not included in the Bible in the modern edition.

                        In order to include and what not to include in the canonical texts, ecumenical councils gathered or, do you think that the fomennas, have just appeared?
                        I personally believe in legends rather than historians with their publications

                        In Soviet times, science was based, including historical, on dialectical materialism. That is, any statement was evaluated in terms of the laws of logic and respect for sources. Now, an idealistic approach prevails. It got to the point that theology defends scientific (!) Work. If this goes on, then we will study ancient history according to the "classic textbook" by Nikolai Kun, "Legends and Myths of Ancient Greece."
                      3. +6
                        22 December 2017 14: 34
                        And no one had a question why on engravings of that time we see houses, towers, fortresses, which implies the presence of architecture, and it implies the ability to design and create these houses and primitively drawn engravings against this background. I think that this whole story is a lie.
                    2. +7
                      21 December 2017 21: 08
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      It was in my comment about the fake

                      Our ancestors lived according to VEDAM. in Slavic-Aryan or not, but in Vedam. And in the official story about this silence.
                      1. +9
                        22 December 2017 10: 39
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Our ancestors lived according to VEDAM. in Slavic-Aryan or not, but in Vedam. And in the official story about this silence.

                        Our ancestors lived differently. To invent “Vedic” customs of “Slavic-Russians” means to despise and not love real still existing customs left over from our ancestors.
                        Do you want ancient Slavic customs? Please, Christmas is coming soon, which means that we are waiting for Christmas fortune-telling and carols - quite a pagan ritual left over from pre-Christian times.
            2. +5
              21 December 2017 19: 09
              And tell me, dear Lieutenant, are you by any chance not a historian by profession, is it all you sorted out on the shelves? As for Khinevich, he belongs to the category of people for whom the method is not important, and most importantly to have their own benefit. He himself is somehow not interesting to me. But there are enough of such people now. The truth is much deeper. And even Alexander !! only authorized the publication, but picak is not the customer of the compilation of this work.
              1. +7
                21 December 2017 20: 22
                .
                Quote: Evgeniy667b
                And even Alexander !! only authorized the publication, but picak is not the customer of the compilation of this work.

                Hinevich recently abandoned the duck about authorizing Alexander to write 2 “Vedas”, as everyone sincerely believes that it was “in reality” ..... How easy it is to fool you
                1. +6
                  21 December 2017 21: 09
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  How easy it is to fool you

                  Are you SURE that the official story is more OFFICIAL? wink
            3. +5
              21 December 2017 21: 04
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              by the name of Khinevich to ensure their selfish goals.

              Let's voice these goals, and their selfish results! wink
            4. +7
              21 December 2017 22: 34
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              written by a specific person by the name of Hinevich to ensure their selfish goals.


              You're right!!
              What only slander and garbage is not written. Or by order. Or for the sake of public relations and hooliganism. Or "unrecognized geniuses." request
              --------------------
              Already lured by the "argument" .. type - there is nowhere to feed the horses laughing
              Devlet - Girey with his 150 000 equestrian warriors, this means there is where to feed. And Giray was leaving Crimea already in July! When the Colchis steppe turns yellow. But it's like - Nothing!
              The Battle of Molodi has not yet been disputed. lol For it is fraught.
              But the Mongols - the steppes are disputed.
              By the way! Batu Khan in the army only 15 000 warriors had the Mongols. Others are Kipchaks, Khakasses, Manchurians, Turgays .. etc. And he had only Tumens 8. That is - half the number of horses than Giray.
              And what horses !!! The horses of Batu were of Mongolian breed. Exceptional among equine stamina people. wink
              1. +8
                22 December 2017 02: 55
                Klim Zhukov had a lecture about the Battle of Molodi, with troops there, not everything is going smoothly either. The number of Mongol-Tatars accepted by science is also disputed by him. In my opinion, and he gives inflated numbers. People at all times are the same in general. Therefore, the calculation of princely “troops” must be based on the usual number of organized crime groups, which they were at that time. I’m not a cop, so I don’t have numbers about the average number of soldiers in the brigade, but I think 100 people, this is a very large organization, perhaps in such numbers, only there were Kiev. Our neighbors had the same thing. So the horde in 5 of thousands of people could bend anyone. Under Molodi, of course, it was already over more people, but states were fighting there, and not engaged in disassembling the gang.
                1. +15
                  22 December 2017 15: 27
                  Glory to those Lord, at least one sane comment, instead of fantasy.
                  Indeed, in the Middle Ages, armies could not be large.
                  This can be easily seen by looking at the number of fighters for example under Cressi and Poitiers, at Tannenberg, and the internecine battles in Russia.
                  Rarely, the number reached 10 thousand, and these were already large armies.
                  So the number of Mongols in 300 thousand, which school books stuffed us with, is very exaggerated. If it was 40-50 thousand, then this is a huge army.
                  It seems that they already wrote about this and I agree with this that if the conquests of the Goths and the Huns were possible, then why the conquests of the united Mongolian tribes, which included the creators of their own rather big state, the Tanguts and Merkits, were not possible.
                  Surprise statement, where are the Mongols now? But the same author is not at all surprised by the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, although he trampled on foot to India.
                  Well, where are the Macedonians now, may I ask? Where did the Huns go? Where did the goths go? Some state has remained from the Mongols, but is it ready from the famous conquerors?
                  Or here are statements that the Mongolian horses could not move in winter, they say they are not savvy.
                  But the Mongolian steppes also have severe winters and enough snow. There they could move around, but in Russia it turns out not.
                  And who said that they are not savvy? Horseshoes not found? And a lot of things were found at the battlefield of Grunwald-Tannenberg?
                  In fact, the iron was very valuable and it was collected.
                  Or did Plano Carpini say they were not savvy? But the author of the article himself writes that Karpini is lying in everything.
                  And if they were horses of the Rus, then they were certainly savvy.
                  And finally, if you do not believe in the conquest of the Mongols, then you can’t believe in the campaigns of the Crimean Tatars, it was also surely the "southern Rus", you can’t believe in the campaigns of Tamerlane, you can not believe in the campaigns of the Macedonians, Persians, Ottomans, Romans, etc. All these are fakes, because they are no better than the supposedly hiking of the Mongols.
                  1. +3
                    22 December 2017 16: 00
                    The “problem” could or could not have come to Russia by the Tatars, now it is based on numbers. Spears break mainly in this matter. In my opinion, to solve it is to answer two questions, one of which, "but the chronicler writes darkness, is dark," and the second, "where is the log of the records of the flights?" If the first is decided by the fact that perhaps it was customary to write this way, then the second is not solvable. Without counting how much goods were collected in the treasury and how much it all cost, it is impossible to calculate the real feed base of the then brigades. We know roughly how much armor and weapons cost in the 14-16 centuries and from here, we calculate how many real soldiers were in the prince's squad. Klim Zhukov, for lack of books, takes mobilization ability, but she, of course, cannot answer 100 percent, to the question "how much?" I think that part of the "mobilization resource" did not fit into military service, because the lame, oblique, and simply weak were not shaved into heroes (still not Sparta, there was no evidence that weak children were being destroyed), some had abilities, for example, to entrepreneurship, "science" or some other activities not related to martial arts. In the end, well, our ancestors were not barbarians, since they could have left such a cultural pre-Mongol heritage.
                  2. +4
                    22 December 2017 19: 53
                    Quote: Tula gingerbread
                    Indeed, in the Middle Ages, armies could not be large.

                    That is, for developed Russians with a centralized supply, large armies could not, and for primitive Mongols - ... - could they?
                    1. +7
                      23 December 2017 16: 07
                      You forget one thing. In Russia, while throughout Europe, there was feudal fragmentation, and it took a long time to assemble a large army.
                      Remember how much the Prince of Vladimir collected the army on the River r.It and how many Dmitry Donskoy collected the army.
                      The Mongols at that time were a centralized entity with a rigid hierarchy established by Genghis Khan.
                      1. +4
                        23 December 2017 18: 29
                        Quote: Ulan
                        You forget one thing. In Russia, while throughout Europe, there was feudal fragmentation, and it took a long time to assemble a large army.

                        Fragmentation is an abstract concept, it is like now - there is Ukraine, there is Belarus, and there is Russia. So then there were small principalities, but there was a principality with a population of three million people, which was stronger than any nomadic formation.
                        Quote: Ulan
                        The Mongols at that time were a centralized entity with a rigid hierarchy established by Genghis Khan.

                        The Mongols did not have any centralization, and even more so there was no centralized supply of troops.
                      2. +3
                        24 December 2017 22: 20
                        Excuse me, may I ask what did you mean by suggesting "remembering"? Of course, I’m ready to admit that you are over 800 years old and recall your own deeds by one trillion trillionth of a unit. But let's omit this incredible probability. So, let's clarify, but what exactly do you propose to “remember”? Where did you get the information that a certain prince ...... and so on? There are no records of eyewitnesses, or at least contemporaries of the “event”. There is a mass of fiction, both secular and religious. Do you propose to drown something that is written 200-700 years after the so-called "fact of the event"? And further. You believe that it is enough to pronounce this spell: "The whole world was in shit, but the Mongols united under the leadership .... and so on and so on? No, not enough. Would you like to try to justify something with your statement? Please just do without references to the notorious passionarity, which suddenly suddenly covered all the Mongols and left the rest of the world.
                  3. 0
                    23 December 2017 12: 14
                    > if the conquests of the Goths and Huns were possible

                    It all depends on the specific conditions that make it possible or impossible to conquer a particular country.

                    > if the conquests of the Goths and Huns were possible

                    that's the joke that they could not. Horses were not adapted for movement through the winter forest, and in those days, most of Russia were rivers and forests. The people lived only in a narrow strip along the rivers. That is, for the movement of cavalry in winter there were only rivers covered with ice

                    > And who said they were not savvy?

                    a lot of contemporaries spoke about this, so don’t need to drive a blizzard if you don’t even know such a minuscule

                    > then you can't believe in the campaigns of the Crimean Tatars

                    Crimean Tatars had raids, not conquests - can you assess the difference yourself, or do you need help?

                    > you can't believe in the campaigns of the Macedonians, Persians, Ottomans, Romans

                    There is the concept of a military campaign - a carefully planned sequence of military operations in which everything was taken into account, starting with food, in the first place. And this is one of the reasons why RI had excellent roads, by the way. And any conquest of any country took many years, and not in one campaign, when they defeated and conquered Armenia and Georgia.

                    This is complete nonsense - both Armenia and Georgia are mountainous countries, before the Mongols the conquest of these countries took many years from any state (Rome, Iran, Arabs), and then all of a sudden sharply stupefied and weakened and gave themselves to conquer in one battle
                    1. +4
                      23 December 2017 16: 14
                      But why should you be rude, if you cannot refute? The Tula gingerbread wrote everything correctly, and you left your ears to the fact that the climate in the places where the Mongols came from, which by the way were called Tatars and filthy in Russia, the climate was even harsher and there were snow-capped rivers.
                      And you would have decided if the horses were savvy, then this is Russia, and if not, then thank you.
                      So the statement that the horses were NOT horseshoe is against you.
                      So you’ve already decided and this is yours - “a lot of contemporaries have talked about this,” ---- this can’t be proof, so it’s still not known who persecutes. At the bazaar, too, “many” say something. So the links and quotes, not allegations and insults of the opponent.
                      And this one - "they gave themselves to conquer in one battle" ----- speaks only of your ignorance of the subject about which you undertook to judge.
                      1. 0
                        23 December 2017 19: 28
                        > Do you generally understand that when in Europe at least some ideas about humanism appeared

                        my dear, in the sentence to which you answered, I spoke about Armenia. And now you are claiming to me with a blue eye that you know the history of Armenia better than me?
                      2. +3
                        25 December 2017 05: 58
                        Your comment clearly demonstrates the fact that geography was not included in the list of your favorite school subjects. Otherwise, you would know that the climate of Mongolia is sharply continental. And this means that the winters in Mongolia, although cold, are very snowy. The normal snow depth in Mongolia is -20 cm. At the same time, Atlantic cyclones form the climate on the East European Plain, which create snow cover 10 times greater than in Mongolia. And further. The Mongols still in their Mongolia frozen rivers move exclusively at right angles, pre-sprinkling the crossing with sand (ground). You undertook to judge that in which you understand nothing. Geography did not have to skip school.
                      3. +2
                        25 December 2017 10: 55
                        Do not lie if you do not know. I served in Transbaikalia, at the junction of the border between China and Mongolia, and I know very well how much snow is in the steppe, and how much, for example, in our Kirov region. Back in the 70s of the last century, some houses in the villages were brought along the roof. Now, of course, it has become smaller, but it’s hard to go through the forest even on hunting skis.
                        Compared to Mongolia, there is simply no comparison. There is very little snow there. So before you write. you need at least some information.
                      4. +3
                        26 December 2017 09: 34
                        I think you are wrong, even in your own steppe, the Mongols lead a sedentary lifestyle in the winter period, get up for the winter and do not make big transitions
                    2. +3
                      23 December 2017 21: 42
                      And countless testimonies of European, Persian, Russian, Central Asian, Armenian. Georgian and Chinese sources?
                      What's this? World conspiracy of historians, from completely different ends of the world, have they contacted via Skype?
                      By the way, Subeday insisted for the western campaign of Batu, namely the winter campaign. The Mongolian horses became shady, and in the East European plain at that historical period there was reduced humidity, this was studied by geologists by the level of silty deposits of the Caspian, its level in those days was the lowest, snow was much less than in our time. There were large islands in the Caspian Sea, on one of which Mohamed died, now this island is under water. It was at this time that the steppe was drying up and the nomads moved from their usual nomads to feed themselves. The Gobi Desert consumed the steppe zone and the Mongols occupied all the lands adjacent to the Wall - Ordos, the war with China was inevitable ... And the conquest of China with its almost unlimited human, economic and intellectual resources allowed the newly created empire to develop further expansion to the west up to the Mediterranean Sea ...
              2. +1
                22 December 2017 11: 05
                In general, I agree with you.
                Quote: ammunition
                Already lured by the "argument" .. type - there is nowhere to feed the horses laughing

                In winter? Nowhere. Napoleon proved that already in October there is nothing to feed them, and the local population does not give hay and oats, because it is greedy. It is also very interesting to read the recollection of our veterans who in the Second World War dismantled thatched roofs in order to feed the Mongolian horses as well. All, apparently, because horses are not hares and do not eat bark from trees.
                Quote: ammunition
                Devlet - Girey with his 150 equestrian warriors, which means there is where to feed. And Giray was leaving Crimea already in July! When the Colchis steppe turns yellow.

                Sorry for the question: do horses eat exclusively green hay? By the way, by the way, the steppes also harvest hay for the winter. Batu, Kipchakov and cut out - scouted all the hay supplies in the steppe and burned to hell, and without horses the Kipchaks immediately felt sad ...
                Quote: ammunition
                By the way! In Batu Khan, only 15 soldiers in the army were Mongols.

                I absolutely agree.
                Quote: ammunition
                Others are Kipchaks, Khakasses, Manchurians, Turgays .. etc.

                Sorry, but Batu before invading Russia cut out the Kipchaks.
                Quote: ammunition
                And what horses !!! The horses of Batu were of Mongolian breed. Exceptional among equine stamina people. wink

                Recently, I have distrust the word "exceptional".
                PS: Do not think that I deny the Mongol-Tatar invasion or yoke. It was!
                But I must note that some descriptions in some history textbooks, mainly based on the immortal work of Karamzin, do not like logic and common sense very much.
                1. +3
                  22 December 2017 11: 11
                  For me, Balashov’s not bad written about this. Although certainly not a historian, but it makes you think.
                  1. +2
                    22 December 2017 11: 17
                    Quote: Shahno
                    For me, Balashov’s not bad written about this. Although certainly not a historian, but it makes you think.

                    If my memory serves me, then Balashov was guided by Gumilyov.
                    1. +1
                      22 December 2017 11: 24
                      Quote: merlin
                      Quote: Shahno
                      For me, Balashov’s not bad written about this. Although certainly not a historian, but it makes you think.

                      If my memory serves me, then Balashov was guided by Gumilyov.

                      Not. I think the Gumilev hypotheses there percent. 50. But of interest is precisely the option of a holistic picture.
                      1. +1
                        22 December 2017 12: 01
                        Quote: Shahno
                        I think the Gumilev hypotheses there percent. fifty

                        Maybe. In general, I agree with you; Balashov’s turn out to be interesting.
                2. +3
                  23 December 2017 08: 14
                  "Sorry for the question: do horses eat exclusively green hay?"

                  Sorry for the question, but do you know how hay differs from straw?
                  1. 0
                    24 December 2017 15: 16
                    Quote: Mic1969
                    Sorry for the question, but do you know how hay differs from straw?

                    I know
                3. 0
                  23 December 2017 12: 20
                  > apparently, because horses are not hares and bark from trees do not eat.

                  you are new to the mythology that has developed around the Mongol conquest, a week ago I read an article about Mongol horses on a conta, and there they seriously showed that besides meat, these horses eat everything - including roots, and tree bark.
                  1. +4
                    23 December 2017 17: 05
                    Quote: xtur
                    , and there, in all seriousness, they proved that in addition to meat, these horses eat everything - including roots, and the bark of trees.


                    Actually .. look at the video about the Yakut horses, which for 9 months of the year eat what they dig out from under the snow. And young tree branches .. like moose .. too. wink
                    1. +1
                      23 December 2017 19: 30
                      > And young branches of trees .. like moose .. too. wink

                      well, that is, you can fight with them in the forest, right?
                    2. +1
                      24 December 2017 15: 21
                      Quote: ammunition
                      Actually .. look at the video about the Yakut horses, which for 9 months of the year eat what they dig out from under the snow. And young tree branches .. like moose .. too. wink

                      All breeds of horses at Tebenevka eat everything that they can dig out from under the snow, including young branches, because you want to eat. But the bark ... no, because not hares ...
                    3. 0
                      25 December 2017 10: 50
                      And on these horses EVERY DAY drive 50 km ?. And in a month more than a thousand?
                    4. +1
                      26 December 2017 14: 13
                      a small nuance, a herd of no more than 10 goals, and over a large territory
              3. +3
                22 December 2017 13: 50
                Quote: ammunition
                The Battle of Molodi has not yet been disputed.

                Well, one should immediately decide whether the Mongols are Türks, or the Türks are Mongols!
                If the Crimean Tatars are not Mongols, and the Ottomans are not Mongols, then the battle of Molodi should not be dragged to the Mongol invasion!
                1. +3
                  22 December 2017 15: 00
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  the battle of Molodi is not necessary to drag the Mongol invasion!


                  Giray's invasion is taken as a good example mass (all male adult population of Crimea and part from the North Caucasus) equestrian invasion.
                  In the sense, this fact is refuted by the argument - That a large mounted army cannot go, because there is nothing for horses. -))
                  If Giray found food, then Batu would have found it all the more.
                  1. 0
                    22 December 2017 18: 42
                    Quote: ammunition
                    Kettlebell taken as a good example
                  2. +2
                    22 December 2017 22: 05
                    Quote: ammunition
                    Giray's invasion is taken as a good example

                    Quote: ammunition
                    Giray's invasion is taken as a good example

                    A message from history, Tatars are Mongols, contrary to the statement, Tatars are a Caucasian race
                    1. +2
                      22 December 2017 23: 03
                      the humor is that in the history of the invasion of the Crimean Tatars they try to present us as an attempt by the Mongol to regain its influence in Moscow ...
                      and in the end, we only have that after the Ottomans captured Tsargrad, Tsargrad lost its meaning, but the daughter of the ruler could give the rulers in Russia the opportunity to demand the return of the throne, which was later announced by Ivan the Terrible 4, which the Ottomans could not did not answer, and their army, the so-called Crimean Tatars, responded to the expense, although Crimea did not even belong to the Tatars then, anyone lived there, the Tatars, who were called Tatars only at the end of the 18th century, were all servants, but only under the rule of Tsarigrad Ottomans donkey themselves blei for so many, with the loss of servicemen, that they could not reassemble, they still call it the Ataman empire in the old borders! at the same time, the first fragments of the so-called Ataman empire begin to form, under the influence of the British. they climbed not only to America, but also to Asia, the formation of Persia in India, China, Japan ...
                      1. +1
                        27 December 2017 00: 19
                        The vowels of the Dee under the In-matriarchy of the Halakhah, the Jews, did indeed come from the south, capturing the north. Ingoland coordinated world crime, but the performers were Erbins R1b and Jay J. Ancestors of the Tatars and Caucasians.
                    2. +2
                      23 December 2017 16: 18
                      Kazan yes, but it is a mixture of Tatars with Volga Bulgars.
              4. +2
                26 December 2017 14: 12
                one horse eats 7 kg of forage per day at least, if it is hay, then twice as much, there is no time to eat pasture during the horse’s transition, and this is impossible with such a large number of them. 150 horses will eat 1 million kg DAILY !!! Note also that in the direction of Mongolia there are still few roads, then even more so. Another nuance from Ryazan to Mongolia is about 4500 km, with an average speed of 15-20 km per day (I repeat through the taiga, forests, fields, unclean steppe) it is almost a year's walk. In addition to horses, you need to feed the riders, the same wagon train grows ... Again, all this must be taken somewhere, it was not possible to get such a quantity of supplies anywhere
              5. +1
                27 December 2017 00: 12
                The Mongols, this maggala, is pronounced brazier, arias from Transbaikal Artania. They really marched west. Serbs from Serica, the silk province of Tartaria, marched with them. They are part of the World, the territory of the Aryans and settled quietly. They attributed the war of predators Iga, Ying, I-beginning, slave traders who moved from the south.
              6. reg
                +1
                28 December 2017 00: 41
                Quote: ammunition
                And what horses !!! The horses of Batu were of Mongolian breed. Exceptional among equine stamina people.

                Maybe Batu Khan had some very good horses. Only no traces of a 300 year tribute in Mongolia were found. Moreover, the assumption that this movement did not go east to west, but rather, from west to east, is not without common sense. And so on up to the Great Wall of China, which was built on the border of progress. To the north of which China lived. And to the south, tea houses. The loopholes of this wall were located in the direction of the tea houses.
                In addition, there is a basis for the version that Catherine did not just send Yermak and other Likhodeys to Siberia. She clearly knew where and what to look for. Because the path there was already beaten once before.
            5. reg
              +2
              28 December 2017 00: 31
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              It’s a pity to ruin your fantastic picture of the world, but ...

              And yours too.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              In the understanding of Europeans, Tataria is the Horde with the states repaired by it.

              Tartaria also had an administrative division. The administrative unit of Tartaria was Moscow Tartaria. Later, after the collapse of the Horde and the transition to Christianity, just Muscovy. Later Great Russia. Now it is part of Russia.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Therefore, Russia, as a tributary of the Horde on the maps, was included in its composition.

              Russia (aka Kievan Rus and many other similar names) was later called Little Russia. Now it is part of Ukraine.
            6. +1
              21 February 2018 14: 40
              Mavro Orbini, an Italian Catholic monk, wrote the Slavonic historiosophy in 1601, and in 2010 was published in a modern Russian translation under the title Slavic Kingdom. There about Tartaria and others
              Maybe he, too, for the sake of the Orthodox, Russian, wrote this folio? :) ...
          2. +2
            21 December 2017 14: 06
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria. It is also in the drawing book of Siberia, Remezov. There are Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling. And who said that the inhabitants of Tartaria were pagans .. Sun worshipers, yes, and this is primarily an understanding of their environment and its place in Space. They cherished their habitat, not like "true followers of different faiths", such as Christianity ,, Islam, Judaism ... These can only be taken! What, for example, is the attitude now to the bowels, bioresources? Nowhere else to go. The purpose of the campaign of tartaria was not enslavement, but to liberate the fraternal community of people from the consequences of Western influence. The essence of “Christians2 is from the Vatican. Like now from Uncle Sam’s Shrewd Democrats. (Still ahead) Historical development is a spiral, everything repeats.

            good
          3. +12
            21 December 2017 20: 14
            The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and the Will to freedom, which was not killed, no matter what. Through the Joy of Great Victories, and the bitterness of great losses ... Through hard work during the wars and creative work after the wars ... Through hundreds and thousands of burnt cities and villages, and even more rebuilt ... Through the seas of shed sweat and seas shed both their own and others ’blood ... All this - FOR MANY CENTURIES - AND NO MORE ...! Not for a second fantasizing about its alien origin. without thinking at all, and not even allowing the thought that the descendants would suddenly say that “it wasn’t. All of this fiction happened all by itself, we are great by ourselves, we are from outer space .... We sat with folded legs on our tummy, and everything just happened so simply. We just looked simply and ate popcorn ... "Denying the past, the history of our Great Ancestors, because of our pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -" no, not there was this, this simply could not be .. "by this you do not simply deny your past - YOU DESTROY IT E. You say: THERE WASN'T THESE OUR ANCESTORS, IN A TERRIBLE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY FOR THE AGES OF FORGIVING THE UNFIBERABLE SPIRIT OF THE PEOPLE .... It is with the external, and not in the internal internecine wars and squabbles of the Russian, when the brother goes There is no valor or honor in this internal internecine massacre. It doesn’t add anything to the people, it doesn’t give anything — neither the addition of the power of the Spirit, nor the Will to Victory and Freedom ... and What you know about the victories of the Russian people, about its Spirit and ability to fight for their Earth and their Faith - WHERE IT ALL TAKEN ...? If you believe it - IN THE INTERNAL GRAVE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS, IT IS SHAMNESS TOGETHER WHEN YOURS KILL YOURS ..... Did not think your Great ancestors didn’t guess that their descendants would be able to succumb to these nonsense ... They completely shredded .. All their Great works are worthless .. Not it turned out to be ... In vain they endured 240 years, perished, accumulated strength, gathered their Earth and people in one fist so that at one point they would bring down the Enemy with all their might .... In vain they later repelled the attacks and raids both from the south, from the west, and from the east .... You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia and like in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes. AND ALL LAWS OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT ARE APPLICABLE TO YOU. Applicable and required. AND ONLY THE SEVERE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY TARGING YOU TO WORK OR DESTROY FOR YOUR OWN SURVIVAL FOR AGES HAS MADE YOU SUCH ... Great people. And now you are destroying the memory of these centuries with your own hands ... What can this lead to ...? THE PEOPLE FORGOTTEN HIS HISTORY - DOOMED TO REPEAT IT AGAIN ....
            1. +5
              21 December 2017 20: 45
              Quote: Dzungar
              And they become Great after going through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others

              So become losharas, terpily.
              Quote: Dzungar
              You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia, as in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes.

              Such - and not so, racial differences have not disappeared.
              1. +1
                21 December 2017 22: 37
                Are you not HOMO SAPIENS ...? And who are you ...? Aliens from Sirius ...? Sorry, sorry ... You are with Alpha Centauri ....
                1. +5
                  21 December 2017 23: 39
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  Are you not HOMO SAPIENS ...?

                  "Homosapiens" "homosapiens" is different, on Earth there are at least five races of "homosapiens" apart from relict, endangered races. In addition, the sapience of some "homo" is in doubt.
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  And who are you ...? Aliens from Sirius ...?

                  If a person does not know how to joke, it is better for him not to do this at all.
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  You are with Alpha Centauri ....

                  The origin of man is an open question.
                  1. +5
                    22 December 2017 12: 51
                    All homo sapiens on earth represent ONE appearance, because without any problems they interbreed and give offspring. VIEW is the extreme stage of diversity. In full form it looks like this - TYPE - CLASS - Squad - FAMILY - GENUS - VIEW. And since all homo sapiens are on the same level, all YOUR conversations about the difference between them are the fruit of your chauvinist and nationalist imagination
                    1. +3
                      22 December 2017 19: 44
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      All homo sapiens on earth represent ONE appearance, because without any problems they interbreed and give offspring.

                      Some species may interbreed, some not - this is not proof.
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      All homo sapiens on earth represent ONE look

                      It may be one species, but the races are different and the crossing is not so smooth - as you try to assure us.
                      1. +2
                        22 December 2017 20: 02
                        Yes, no normally crossed.
                        I love the mulattos myself. I’ll send the proof in six months. And now only ultrasound.
                      2. +1
                        25 December 2017 19: 18
                        the races are different and the crossing is not going so smoothly - as you try to assure us.


                        bullshit, old man ... *))) Examples of interspecific crossbreeding are Ligra and Tigrolva, or hoes with mules there - they, yes, do not give offspring. But the hybrid offspring with parents of different racial backgrounds, spite your delusional fantasies, for some reason the beautiful ones themselves turn out and perfectly produce their children ... *)) damn it, how many Natsik divorced, with their delusional "ideas" ... *) )))
                    2. +2
                      26 December 2017 14: 19
                      Wolves with dogs also cross, but they are not one species, just like horses and donkeys
                      1. +1
                        26 December 2017 19: 54
                        Canis lupus - common wolf; Canis aureus - "golden wolf", jackal; Canis lupus familar - "an ordinary wolf, domestic", a dog in general ... I beg you not to CONFUSE, species and subspecies ... Anyway, go to learn the materiel ... *) all these subspecies, of the same species, perfectly cross each other friend ... *)
              2. +1
                4 January 2018 17: 38
                Quote: KaPToC
                So become losharas, terpily.

                You yes, you are exactly ..... These are your words, I didn’t call you that
                1. +3
                  4 January 2018 22: 59
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  You yes, you are exactly ..... These are your words, I didn’t call you that

                  That you so petty self-assertion, insulting others. Moreover, I note that you insult the people, thanks to which you generally survived, and did not perish, received statehood and independence from the hands of the Russian people. And now you bark like a pug at an elephant.
                  The Germans wrote a false story for the Russians, believed in their lies and came to conquer these Russians, whom you considered suckers, to remind you of what ended the Great Patriotic War?
            2. +5
              22 December 2017 12: 41
              Why shout like that? Oh yeah, who has no evidence, no arguments, no logic - he takes with a cry and pathos. hi
              Denying the past, the history of their Great Ancestors, because of their pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -

              Verily speak. Only the smallest little souls can deny the natural normal and quite peaceful history of their ancestors, having bought on the ideas inspired by the Vatican of the "bloody history of their ancestors" supposedly conquering half the world. These smallest little souls, now making a no-brainer gesheft on their supposedly Great and supposedly Bloody ancestor, spit for their own benefit that the Vatican from their ancestors created terrible monsters that still scare the world.
              1. +2
                23 December 2017 07: 58
                When someone blames someone else for their problems, he thereby says - I AM WEAK, I DO NOT DECIDE MY FATE. OTHERS DECIDE MY FATE. I can’t stop them .... This applies to both individuals and peoples ... Your lamentations about the fact that someone there destroyed something, misrepresented, redid your story - these are exactly the complaints of a weak man who is not capable of himself to change something in their fate, to the machinations of others, more powerful. I am SURE that there are a minority of people like you among the Russians, FOR THE GREAT PEOPLE WHICH THE RUSSIANS ARE PROVEN TO EVERYTHING THAT THEY ARE STRONG, AND WE ARE USING THE OTHERS OF OTHERS .... And your alleged answer is that "you are just doing it now - become strong and rebuild your story "is nothing more than wiping snot from a broken muzzle AND UNACCEPTABLE FOR THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE STRONG PEOPLE WHICH THE RUSSIAN WAS ALWAYS
            3. +1
              27 December 2017 00: 20
              In-formatting.
            4. 0
              7 March 2018 00: 35
              Well said ... Sorry
          4. +7
            21 December 2017 20: 17
            .
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There are Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling.

            But nothing that these your "Vedas" were written by a Jew Khinevich ....?
            1. +9
              21 December 2017 21: 12
              Quote: Dzungar
              But nothing that these your "Vedas" were written by a Jew Khinevich ....?

              ????? belayLike you, the ancient gesture of greeting from the heart to the sun has made a symbol of Nazism. And the Rainbow is a symbol of buggers. negative
              1. +5
                21 December 2017 22: 31
                Do you deny the authorship of the Vedas by Hinevich ....? Gyy Sami then read these "Vedas" ...?
                Wild crazy mix of Russian fairy tales, Scandinavian sagas and many other garbage ......
              2. +3
                22 December 2017 12: 54
                Well, what about the Jewish authorship of your "native Russian book - Slavic-Aryan Vedas" ...? I understand how it is unpleasant for you, but please be kind - understand that you and people like you are just an impersonal mass, called to be an instrument in someone’s hands
                1. +4
                  25 December 2017 08: 32
                  The combination of the great-power "Mongolian" (Oirat-Mongolian) chauvinism and anti-Semitism in your neighborhood is side by side with your assurances of the desire for peace and friendship with all peoples. As they say, either remove the cross or put on your underpants.
                  1. 0
                    3 January 2018 10: 06
                    No
                    Quote: Seal
                    The combination of the great-power "Mongolian" (Oirat-Mongolian) chauvinism and anti-Semitism.

                    here, for my part, no .. And you can’t confirm this in terms of my words. These are only YOUR words, AND EVERYTHING ... And why do you just mention the name "Jew" is a sign of anti-Semitism ....? Judging by the fact that the Jews seek that their name is not mentioned at all, or is spoken in a whisper. And just mentioning it would be an act of anti-Semitism, it’s worth concluding that YOU ARE JEWS AND YOURSELF ... And since you are actively pedaling the theme of “Russian superiority”, it would seem unrelated to you, we can conclude THIS MOST ONCE JUST ATTEMPTS TO INTRODUCE DISTRESS AND BATTLE BETWEEN THE PEOPLES .... Question: what else can you expect from another ....?
              3. +2
                22 December 2017 13: 49
                Ingvar, explain to your grandfather / great-grandfather about the "Slavic" ridge, and let it harket you in the face!
          5. +1
            21 December 2017 23: 04
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria.

            The very name of Tartary meant "distant lands", that is, the outskirts of something big, according to an article by the superethnos of Rusov. Hence, for example, the concept of "failing in tartarara (to Tartaria, far away) And this means that the center was still in the European part of modern Russia. Therefore, Igo is just an uprising of the outskirts against the weakened Center.
            1. +2
              27 December 2017 00: 30
              Tartaria, subsequently territory, meant the land of the Aryans. T-firmly, Ar-light, manifested world, stopped energy. Tara is a planet in duality with sky-light-Sun Ar. Horde Arda Erde, organized space for people. Hence the order and other structural concepts. I-th (state) from the I-beginning, In-matriarchy of the Lunite predators of the south. From them the same and-change of values ​​of the Aryans understand-be able to suppress-have.
          6. The comment was deleted.
          7. +2
            22 December 2017 12: 25
            From that time, the Tara River remained in Siberia.
          8. +3
            22 December 2017 15: 26
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            The purpose of the campaign of tartaria was not enslavement, but to liberate the fraternal community of people from the consequences of Western influence.

            And the best form of liberation of the fraternal community is to cut out all the inhabitants and burn the city to hell like Ryazan, Kiev. Then, obviously, the harmful Western influence did not extend to the Scythian-Aryan-Tartary brothers.
          9. +1
            25 December 2017 22: 24
            And on those maps of the monster, unprecedented portraits were also depicted. And the land is still undiscovered laughing
          10. +1
            26 December 2017 10: 05
            Where did you take us Susanin hero ?,,
        2. +15
          21 December 2017 12: 10
          He has only knowledge gleaned from communication with knowledgeable people. Like this! And the bribes are smooth. No labors, nothing ... labors - they work from the word. And then pure knowledge gained in communication! Neither you nor I can understand this.
      2. +41
        21 December 2017 08: 14
        Links, links to archeology data. I have a museum in Penza in the Zolotarevsky settlement. In it are a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia. Stirrups, saber crosshairs. During the excavation, broken skulls, characteristic pin-tops and much more were found. What does the author refer to? Such articles without links all the same as sandpaper sold instead of toilet paper!
        1. +22
          21 December 2017 08: 42
          Quote: kalibr
          Links, links to archeology data. I have a museum in Penza in the Zolotarevsky settlement. It has a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia ..

          Please be more precise in expressions: Mongolia as a country arose in the XNUMXth century, and now there live tribes that did not call themselves that in the XNUMXth century, because the word even appeared only in the XNUMXth century and not among them. Whether the people of these tribes lived on that territory is an open question that has not yet been proven by anyone, but that there still existed there a civilization of tall, brown-haired Russ-moguls (please do not confuse with the term "Mongol"), and genetically close to the Rus of the Great Russian Plain, evidence is currently available. By the way, how was it possible to "prove" that these tips were used by tribes, for example hulk, because people of completely different ethnic groups lived there, more often at different times. So these tips can not give enough reason to be unambiguously defined as exclusively "Mongolian".
          1. +20
            21 December 2017 09: 16
            And Italy as a country arose in the XNUMXth century, as did Germany. Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?
            1. +20
              21 December 2017 10: 05
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?

              The Romans - who are the inhabitants of the city of Rome and its environs? Then the existence of the city itself in those years should be denied, which I never did. Another thing is what peoples, tribes these inhabitants consisted of, so I constantly write about it that at different times they were completely different people belonging to different ethnic groups, while they still remained Romans, that is, residents of this city. A more complicated question is about some “Germans,” the term itself seems to be of Latin origin, only from what ethnic groups, tribes, etc. were these "Germans"? It’s clear that this is not a self-name but a certain nickname (drove) for foreigners regarding Rome, such as “barbarians”, etc. As for "Germany," I have serious doubts that the inhabitants of ancient Russia - Veneda themselves would call themselves the Latin term, now they call themselves "Deutsch", but not so long ago, and the country is called Deutschland. Why do you use the Latin name, do you need a highly developed Russian language? For example, in all dialects of the Russian language (Slavic) this country is truly called in Russian like "Nimechina", Scandinavians: "Tyskland", Romance speakers: "Alemania", Karelian-Finns: "Saksa" - this is also a Russian term, etc. d. So it’s not very correct to talk about certain “Germanic tribes”, but generally about “tribes”. This question more consists of the field of linguistics, so do not pedal it, and they have already written about this here more than once.
              1. +28
                21 December 2017 12: 49
                Venya, you would be foolish to write novels, and you write articles. Although even the article is somehow miserable. I don’t even want to criticize, do not touch, as they say. And graphomania is treated with electroshock.
                1. +13
                  21 December 2017 13: 17
                  Wow, another Natsik appeared - a true "historian" professional. And why do you Natsik so dislike Russia-Venus? You surely all conspired, ethno-religious organized crime group, thieves in the sense. So, with your works you get all kinds of different "Kievan Rus", then in Polish "Ukraina" - because you are not local and you are in my country for us ..at. They turned on the fan to the full, apparently felt their end, and that’s nice.
              2. +6
                21 December 2017 15: 03
                Quote: venaya
                The Romans - who are the inhabitants of the city of Rome and its environs?

                The first Romans are Italian tribes: Latins, Italians, etc.
                1. +11
                  21 December 2017 15: 38
                  Quote: RUSS
                  The first Romans are Italian tribes: Latins, Italians, etc.

                  That is, it turns out that the founders of Rome itself - the Etruscans (not self-name) were not Romans? By the way, I remind you: the State of the Kingdom of Italy was born only in the 1861st year. And what "Italian tribes" in this case could live in ancient Rome? There is a clear shift of concepts in time. Please be careful in terminology. By the way, the "Latins" (united) are hardly an ethnic group proper, most likely even by their name - it is a combined hodgepodge of people from different parts of the Mediterranean.
                  1. +6
                    21 December 2017 16: 38
                    Quote: venaya
                    That is, it turns out that the founders of Rome itself - the Etruscans (not self-name) were not Romans?

                    Latins founded Rome, not Etruscan.
                    1. +12
                      21 December 2017 16: 53
                      Quote: RUSS
                      Latins founded Rome, not Etruscan.

                      This message of yours is revolutionary in historical science, this discovery must be urgently published in all historical periodicals, maybe someone will agree with this discovery of yours, because everything happens in our World.
                      1. +11
                        21 December 2017 17: 50
                        Are you laughing Or are you really dumb?
                        LATINS - Italian tribes inhabiting Lazio (modern. Lazio). In the beginning. 1st millennium BC e. united in the Latin Union. According to tradition, Latins and Sabines founded Rome (754/753 BC) ... Big Encyclopedic Dictionary.
                        You to the card
                        Take a look at the Apennine Peninsula in ancient times and see where Latins lived, where Etruscan, and do you even know that they were at enmity with another?
                      2. +6
                        22 December 2017 04: 18
                        ... and I personally like your point of view .. venaya ... by the way, the inscriptions on the burials of the Etruscans were deciphered with the help of an Old Slavonic letter ... Rome arose thanks to the Etruscans
                    2. +2
                      21 December 2017 20: 44
                      Correctly! Do not listen to them! Latins are the true ancestors of the Vatican, the founders of Rome, the Swiss!
              3. +3
                27 December 2017 00: 50
                Dei from dei-deyat. Che - in this case, a person. So they called themselves quite Russian. Che is generally part of a lot, fish in a jamb. Therefore, man, fisherman-dei.
                Understanding the language was discredited, because it is a return to the memory of the people.
                Herman is a changeling. Mana Moon - The Moon. Beckon, deception from this name. But man is a man. Er-Ar - The sun and also a man, arias.
                Rome is Peace, and the city was Roma. This also needs to be promoted.
            2. +7
              21 December 2017 13: 52
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Italy as a country arose in the 19th century, as did Germany. Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?

              Was there a genetic analysis of the Romans and modern Italians? Modern Germans and "then" Germans? The concept of "Germanic tribes" extended to a very large "crowd." Have many of them survived to our times in the genes of modern Germans? The same question applies to the theme "Romans-Italians" ...
            3. +12
              21 December 2017 19: 07
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?

              We will deny it. The Romans on the Italian peninsula - the invention of historians - the Romans - are Romanians, the Slavs lived on the territory of modern Germany. It is not for nothing that the Germans are called Germans - dumb - who have lost their speech. They have lost the Russian language as once the Poles, but now this process is going on in Ukraine.
              1. +3
                22 December 2017 14: 43
                Go directly to Bucharest - there they will arrange a banquet! laughing lol
                1. +2
                  22 December 2017 19: 46
                  Quote: alatanas
                  Go directly to Bucharest - there they will arrange a banquet!

                  And tell me which state the city of Constanta belongs to near the mouth of the Danube? The Catholic will sound like Constantinople.
                  1. 0
                    29 December 2017 17: 54
                    Before it became Romanian (1878) it was called Kyustendzha.
              2. 0
                5 March 2018 09: 37
                Hm, yes the Poles did not lose Slavic speech. Bend over. Until now, more than 50% of the text is read in Latin without translation, especially if there are old Russian words in my memory. By ear, yes, it’s complicated. For example, the name of the city of Zdzyazhec (in the Subcarpathian Voivodeship) my boss never learned to pronounce :))
            4. +5
              21 December 2017 19: 44
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Germanic tribes

              As one movie hero says, what is your evidence! What is your evidence that they were? Indeed, in the annals they are not, there are different Germans there, I emphasize different, but something about the Germans is somehow not there! But they begin to appear at Bismarck, in the midst of the fragmentation of Europe or the so-called partition of Poland!
              1. +4
                23 December 2017 13: 34
                You are joking?

                Strabo and Tacitus wrote about the Germans in the first century AD (and not only them).
                Is this not enough for you?
                Where does this come from: “After all, they are not in the annals”?
                In whose annals are they not?
                1. +3
                  23 December 2017 19: 40
                  Quote: Lenivets2
                  You are joking?

                  Strabo and Tacitus wrote about the Germans in the first century AD (and not only them).
                  Is this not enough for you?
                  Where does this come from: “After all, they are not in the annals”?
                  In whose annals are they not?

                  Not at all!
                  You still do not drag the legends and myths of ancient Greece! Although there may be more truth expressed allegorically!
                  You better note the extra noise, and maybe the real story will appear to you.
                  1. +2
                    23 December 2017 19: 55
                    "Not at all!
                    You still do not drag the legends and myths of ancient Greece! Although there may be more truth expressed allegorically!
                    You’d better note the extra noise, and maybe the real story will appear to you. "

                    What language do you write? recourse

                    Try to set up your translator and answer: so in whose annals are they not?
                    1. +2
                      25 December 2017 00: 33
                      [quote = Lenivets2]
                      What language do you write? recourse [/ quote]
                      I apologize that I could not fully answer, I could read, but an attempt to answer when distracted led to a similar result!
                      [quote = Lenivets2] "Not at all!
                      You still weave here the legends and myths of ancient Greece! Although there may be more truth expressed allegorically! than in a story that defends someone’s interests
                      You’d better notice the extra noise, and maybe the real story itself will appear to you. "
                      I do not reject mythology; on the contrary, I believe that there are real events in a veiled form.
                      but it happens that they find the text, emphasize it, and literally a year later there is work with archaeologists, historians and other brethren who are trying to provide a refutation or bring confusion into the consciousness of those who have already perceived as a ray of truth in the whole stream it is not clear what
                      you can start from today, and step back from it, through all the events that are described, and many are obvious and objective, in view of our personal perception, and you can see those who are interested, and from the theory of repeatability of events, come to events more distant, but for now there is no potency to repeat.
                      and this is a bit ago, [quote]: so whose chronicles do not have them? [/ quote] are not at all vocal, if only in the letter of entry to the Romanov’s canteen! and it’s more like a bookmark !!!
                      and a little about the story!
                      We all see St. George the Victorious. in Western stories, he is one of the military leaders of some Turkish king, only one, given that Turkey was born at the beginning of the last century, and then with the help of Soviet leaders.
                      in others, also western, George the Victorious was almost a gladiator slave, and it was Augustus (the first person in the empire) who made him almost the head of his guard!
                      and only in Russia, George the Victorious on all emblems, be it the emblem of Moscow, or some other federal structure! besides, only in Russia did “some kind of tsar” go to battle with Lik. or do you really think that what the church is trying to unconsciously preserve for us, albeit in a somewhat distorted form, since the Romanovs are participating there, is it just some kind of religion? have you ever been embarrassed that next to the icons, most often the Mother of God, are photographs of direct ancestors?
                      I believe in God, our Father who lives in heaven, His Son, who tried to make our world better, and the Holy Spirit is in each of us, but which we lose, and only after going through losses, difficulties and hardships, we return again!
                      and so, about Western legends, Augustus, having conquered the world, decided to change it a little, now they would call it to make him more socially oriented, for which he was killed by the feudal lords, as this made them weakened, and before that, Augustus does one of gladiators as the chief of his guard, having previously freed from duty to be a slave and a gladiator. but Augustus is killed, for which the gladiator himself begins to implement the idea of ​​Augustus!
                      what is not the story? and Augustus and George the Victorious slaying the dragon! and here you can see the history associated with the horde! not tacitus with, forgive me, with the product from the sex shop!
                      back to Ivan the Terrible!
                      doesn’t it seem strange to you that in Western history Tsargrad plays such a small role, but at the same time, there are maps on which the Ataman empire is of enormous size, by the way the same as Tartaria with its capital in Constantinople (Tsargrad)? and only Europe, begins to acquire some features of the modern political map? on which is the subject (part) now it is called eastern Europe, to the Urals? and despite the fact that these maps are of the 18th century, and if we take the Ataman empire, is there only a reference to the territory before 1452?
                      and so, after the capture of Constantinople by the Ottomans (I write by the Ottomans, since it seems more like they were not Turks, but they began to become Turks at the end of the 18th century, trying to emphasize their difference, after it was not possible to repeat Tamerlane’s campaign and reunite ataman empire only under its command)
                      the Ataman empire began to burst at the seams, including in southern Europe, in which the British seized the initiative, these events are also called reconquest, and in eastern Europe, a little later, the Romanovs - a war with the so-called Poles (as the nation appeared no earlier than the second half of the 18th century after the first section of the speech of the Commonwealth or at Karamzin’s Western Slavs), the defeats of the so-called Swedes, who also tried to unite the Western Slavs, and it’s not even that they seized part of the Eastern Slavs, just such a large state there shouldn’t have been (doesn’t it remind of today, 70 years ago, hundred years ago, Napoleon?)
                      I do not want to argue about the Mongoloidness of Genghis Khan! or Augustus! I just want to emphasize that racial concepts, such as the Europioid Mongoloid, or qualification appeared at the end of the 18th century, then the idea of ​​ethnic groups, nationalities, nations began to form ... I think you understand what I mean?
                      and if you carefully monitor the events of today, it will become obvious how nations, states .... appear, and at least this will give a slightly different look at history!
                      for example, Persia, split off from the Ataman empire after the Ottomans seized power in Constantinople, and in the last century it was divided by at least another 2. so many examples can be cited, and North and South Korea, and Europe, in the type of historical sources the talk is Polish-Lithuanian, and the Russian Empire and the USSR with the advent of the newly formed republics, which would not exist, or with the participation of England, there was something else, for example, Afghanistan.
                      and when you look at it, you begin to understand that the Mongols are like being a full-fledged participant! England - yes, the French, almost the same as the winners of the Great Patriotic War - yes, at the last stage of the USA - from the last century - yes, some European countries as members of certain coalitions - yes, but neither Mongolia nor China is visible , neither Poland, nor other participants - limitrophs !!!
                      Isn't that a story?!? and where real !!!
                      1. +1
                        27 December 2017 00: 58
                        England, either, there is Ingoland from John. Therefore the queen.
                  2. +2
                    24 December 2017 22: 26
                    Already a day has passed, but you still could not set up your translator.
                    I'm sorry. hi
          2. +6
            21 December 2017 10: 09
            In Mongolia, your dinosaurs lived, in the desert there are many skulls ... History is not a science!
            1. +6
              21 December 2017 17: 11
              And that’s right !!! From this one: You won’t run away on a small, hairy moped !!! laughing Shah and checkmate of history !!! laughing
              1. +3
                22 December 2017 21: 06
                Quote: HanTengri
                Shah and checkmate of history !!! laughing

                Is there a Mongol in the photo?
                1. +6
                  23 December 2017 12: 07
                  Mongoloed. They ate all the Mongols in the Jurassic, so there wasn’t any yoke! wassat
                  1. +2
                    23 December 2017 20: 07
                    Mongoloed. They ate all the Mongols in the Jurassic

                    Heh.) I support.
                    1. +2
                      23 December 2017 21: 05
                      Katta Rahmat, countryman! And then, after all, it is so difficult to carry the light of true knowledge into the dark realm of official science! crying laughing
          3. +7
            21 December 2017 16: 57
            Venya, it’s never too late to learn, the mass of documents of those times is in the archives. You Khalkha-Mongols have also dragged here (they are a product of the later Middle Ages) and the tribes listed in the period of the Chechen Republic, they are now also part of the current Buryat-Mongols, Kalmyks and in Mongolia itself .Venya, baranoid, you go to Wikipedia, find the section Buryats-outerwear, statehood, etc. The difference between the Buryat clothes and the Syanbi (Khalkha) is three colored stripes on the chest of different colors, what they mean, everything is written there. If the first color white- This is the Sagaan Hunnu-be tribes Hunnu (people), blue-Huhe Hunnu-blue Hunnu, green, yellow Shara Hunnu-yellow Hunnu, black-Hara Hunnu and others. So my ancestors back in the 3-4 century in the current steppe zone of Ukraine (without taking forest and mountainous part) created the state of Great Hunia. when no one called your ancestors, study, and do not drive a wedge with your own insanity.
            1. +11
              21 December 2017 19: 12
              Quote: Alexander Abiduev
              his insanity

              Do not impose YOUR insanity on us
              Quote: Alexander Abiduev
              it's never too late to learn, a lot of documents of those times

              A link to the documents can be, please, because something "great conquerors" did not leave samples of their writing in Russia.
            2. +5
              21 December 2017 19: 47
              Quote: Alexander Abiduev
              Venya, it's never too late to learn

              And that is true! Passionary peoples, especially those who developed the imperial territories, somehow left their traces, which have not been washed away even by millennia! The Golden Horde, nomadic, left nothing on its own, except for mentions in the Russian chronicles, "go into the horde, come from the horde", "the king of the horde cameos and hail the Mnosis burned, he was old and young, he was full, he brought down the village of robbery, black people bringing everything together. " This is where the horde's descriptions are limited. The Hun Empire, as it arose and disappeared, and the Buryats = Huns are only one of the constituent parts, like the Sarmatians, Bulgars, Magyats, but this empire left traces in the form of Bulgaria, Hungary, the Sarmatian armored cavalry among the Romans (read the Knights Reytars) , The Horde did not leave anything other than mail, pit.
              1. +10
                21 December 2017 20: 35
                Quote: Khazarin
                in addition to references in Russian chronicles, "go to the horde, come from the horde", "king of the horde

                Horde from Old Russian - the army. Coming to the horde - going to the service, coming from the horde - returning from the service, the king of the horde - the military commander. The Mongols have no word "horde".
                1. +4
                  21 December 2017 20: 46
                  Quote: Khazarin
                  The horde did not leave anything other than mail, pit.

                  The horde left behind the largest country in the world - Russia.
              2. +5
                21 December 2017 20: 35
                About the works of Rashil-Ad-Din did not hear anything ...? There is a lot written about the Mongols ... And the fact that they did not leave anything special material - it’s the nomads ... While they were in force - there was an empire, but cities and temples were not built ... There was no empire of nomads - and from them little is left ....
                1. +5
                  21 December 2017 23: 54
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  About the works of Rashil-Ad-Din did not hear anything ...? There is a lot written about the Mongols ... And the fact that they did not leave anything special material - it’s the nomads ... While they were in force - there was an empire, but cities and temples were not built ... There was no empire of nomads - and from them little is left ....

                  Here, after all, how to translate these works ... you can Mongol, but you can Mughal and the essence will immediately change. Well, about the army of nomads ... Think for yourself, a nomad can only live as a herder, there is no cattle ... death from hunger. And the cattle breeder once needs to graze cattle. But the army of nomads (without cattle) is already a gang of beggars hunting robberies, big or small question is different. It has always been with all peoples, as an example, Zaporizhzhya Cossacks or the army of Pugachev, Pirates of different seas. Gangs can be powerful even to defeat states, it is possible to create some kind of gangster republics. But all this is short-lived by historical standards.
                  1. +3
                    22 December 2017 13: 12
                    Your words simply say that you DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the way of life of a nomad ... Tear your ass off the couch and get acquainted with the life of the Nomad family and you will definitely see that there is someone to graze cattle, and there will ALWAYS be someone to fight. You should not just go into your speculative fantasies .... Moreover, the nomads of the time had MUCH more time for military exercises than the peasants .... This implies the usual rule for nomads - EVERY MAN in the Family is a WARRIOR ...
                    1. +4
                      22 December 2017 19: 58
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      Tear off your ass from the sofa somehow and get acquainted with the life of the Nomad family and you will definitely see that there is someone to graze cattle, and there will ALWAYS be someone to fight.

                      It's you - those who pretend to be descendants of nomads - you don’t know about the life of cattle breeders.
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      From here follows the usual rule among nomads - EVERY MAN in the Family is a WARRIOR ...

                      Among nomads, every man is a shepherd, not a warrior.
                      1. +1
                        23 December 2017 08: 08
                        You only have enough for an empty UAV - UAV - UAV ..... I feel sorry for you
                      2. +1
                        23 December 2017 08: 58
                        This peasants from dawn to dawn plowing on the farm and in the field there is no time for military training. And the nomad TIME SEA in order to become a Warrior, cattle do not require much attention, and so our Banhars graze without a man .... I do not want to do
                    2. +3
                      25 December 2017 15: 53
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      Your words simply say that you DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the way of life of a nomad ... Tear your ass off the couch and get acquainted with the life of the Nomad family and you will definitely see that there is someone to graze cattle, and there will ALWAYS be someone to fight. You should not just go into your speculative fantasies .... Moreover, the nomads of the time had MUCH more time for military exercises than the peasants .... This implies the usual rule for nomads - EVERY MAN in the Family is a WARRIOR ...

                      That you have read fairy tales and tales, you yourself really grazed sometime? It is ridiculous to listen to the reasoning of the sofa nomad cattle breeder. Where can your family go to fight and who will leave the herds, but a dozen shepherds? So the flocks will be immediately taken away by your neighbors. You try in the war to lose half of the men of the family, the rest will be finished off instantly by the tribesmen. Read the history of Timujin, what relations reigned among fellow tribesmen. Yes, they studied military affairs in order to protect their cattle from neighbors. The only reason for the kind to go robbery is the death of cattle.
                      You are also wrong about the peasants. The main works are spring and autumn, in the summer there is work, but there is no rush. Winter is generally almost a vacation. Moreover, it does not make sense to attack the peasant not in spring or summer, the old crop is eaten, the new one has not grown. You can attack only in late autumn when the crop is harvested. In winter it is cold and there is little feed for the horses. So the farmers had time to comprehend the military craft and nature protected from robbery.
                    3. +1
                      26 December 2017 22: 53
                      I read, I read, it is amazing how many idiots who believe in this Tartary divorced !!! Seen even by likes! A nomad could not fight, we must graze cattle! ?))))) So there were no Scythian campaigns in Asia Minor, there was no great migration of peoples, there were no Huns, Sarmatians, Bulgars, Massagets, finally !!!! With the help of these u..ov, they want to make us the same mankurts as Ukrainians now, with their dill history!
                2. 0
                  22 December 2017 04: 11
                  ... Rashid-Ad-Din ... so what did he learn from ..
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                  1. +4
                    21 December 2017 23: 42
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    as in this article

                    Is that how you assert yourself by speaking derogatoryly about others? How ugly it is!
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    I directly said that RUSSIANS MUCH SMARTER THOSE WHO COME THESE NONSENDS AND BELIEVE THESE NONSENDS

                    Faith is in the church, science operates with evidence, well, apart from history, historians are used to referring to someone, they crush authority with authority.
                    1. +2
                      23 December 2017 08: 11
                      In the church - religion, if you are not in the know. Faith in man is in the soul and mind. Since you have this and that problem, then apparently you have a bad faith with Faith .... Neither in God, nor in anything else known to everyone
                      1. +3
                        23 December 2017 18: 34
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        In the church - religion, if you are not in the know.

                        I don’t care, faith, church, what's the difference? Believe at least, in God, even in hell, even in history, even in the great shepherds of conquerors, do not impose your faith on us.
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        apparently with Vera you have a bad time ....

                        But everything is fine with common sense
                        Google this term "critical thinking."
                  2. +2
                    22 December 2017 07: 02
                    All right said. and not just stupid, but stupid Nazis!
                    1. +3
                      22 December 2017 20: 16
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      Is that how you veiledly called all Russians stupid?

                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      All right said. and not just stupid, but stupid Nazis!

                      As the saying goes "no comment."
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            4. +2
              23 December 2017 13: 39
              If not your last offer, I completely agree with you.
              Why insult ancestors?
              It's not for you to judge what their names were. hi
            5. +1
              27 December 2017 01: 04
              Buryats from the Barat-Aryans, the Mongols from the barbecue themselves. Transbaikal Artania is still in many place names. Mangaloy and Halarta are still there. Khalkhi, however, were not Mongoloids. ) The Jews handed out someone else's. Igo from them is Jewish, everywhere and again.
        2. +15
          21 December 2017 08: 50
          Quote: kalibr
          Links, links to archeological data ... ... It has a bunch of tips of the Mongolian arrows identical to the tips of the territory of Mongolia

          Have you heard anything about Tartaria, in what borders was it?

          Map of Tartaria - 0:25

          And what about the Battle of Kulikovo?

          The Tatar-Mongol yoke, Christians are trying to cover up the genocide of the Russian people during the forced Christianization of it.
          1. +16
            21 December 2017 12: 03
            Quote: Boris55
            have you heard anything about Tartaria

            I already answered above, I will tell you: "Tartaria" is the European name for the Horde. And the Horde tributaries were included on European maps in this Tartaria. So do not produce entities beyond measure.
            Quote: Boris55
            The Tatar-Mongol yoke, Christians are trying to cover up the genocide of the Russian people during the forced Christianization of it.

            Are you serious now? That is, as I understand it, the myth of "9 million killed out of 12 in the 10th century" was successfully debunked and now neopagans are trying to come up with the myth of "resistance to the Slavic Aryans in the 13th century"? And you are not embarrassed by the fact that there is not a word about this “resistance” either in secular or church chronicles? It would seem that such a glorious victory for Christians should be immortalized in the annals, as the memory of the triumph over the enemy in the feud. Only for some reason all the annals are silent. Could it be that this "resistance" is just an invention?
            1. +23
              21 December 2017 12: 52
              Lieutenant You are well done. So them. I clap standing.
              1. +3
                22 December 2017 04: 09
                With eyes and ears ... the lieutenant hangs noodles .. and YOU ..!
            2. +11
              21 December 2017 12: 57
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Are you serious now?

              Have you heard the thread about the cross of the carriers on Lake Peipsi?
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              And you are not embarrassed by the fact that there is not a word about this “resistance” either in secular or church chronicles?

              Are you aware that all the annals of Petrukh I were allegedly claimed for the census and no one else saw them?
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Could it be that this "resistance" is just an invention?

              As echoes of the confrontation of beliefs - this is the presence with us to this day (in Russia) of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church.

              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              the myth of "9 millions killed from 12 in the 10 century" was successfully debunked

              Everywhere Christianity didn’t come - there was genocide everywhere, that of the natives of North and South America, that of Australia, etc. and only in Russia were such woodpeckers that, with joy, they refused the faith of their fathers and accepted the new faith ... And do you believe that?
              1. +11
                21 December 2017 13: 27
                Quote: Boris55
                Have you heard the thread about the cross of the carriers on Lake Peipsi?

                Are you talking about the Catholic Teutonic Order? Well, these "knight brothers" not only fought with Orthodox Russia, but also fought with Catholic Poland. For this order, questions of faith very quickly gave way to concerns about financial and land issues.
                Quote: Boris55
                Are you aware that all the annals of Petrukh I were allegedly claimed for the census and no one else saw them?

                Who is "Peter I" is personally unknown to me. Russian historiography too. In the same way, as well as a certain "demand for annals for the census." That is why only the "secret guardians of ancient knowledge" know about it. And no one else.
                Quote: Boris55
                As echoes of the confrontation of beliefs - this is the presence with us to this day (in Russia) of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church.

                That is, you do not know anything about the Nikon reform and the real history of the emergence of the Old Believers?
                Quote: Boris55
                Everywhere Christianity didn’t come - there was genocide everywhere, that of the natives of North and South America, that of Australia, etc.

                Tell this to the people of Latin America. Which are, without exception, descendants of marriages of local Aborigines with newcomers Spaniards. Or Orthodox Yakuts. Or Egyptian Copts. They just laugh. And Copts, like southerners, are hot and can knock on the face for such words.
                Quote: Boris55
                with joy they abandoned the faith of their fathers and accepted the new faith ...

                Of course they refused. Because Christianity is much more merciful than pagan cults with their sacrifices. Latin America is an example. And the Slavs before the adoption of Christianity, if you read the chronicles, also did not treat human life very humanely.
                1. +16
                  21 December 2017 14: 31
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Christianity is much more merciful than pagan cults

                  Tell it to US Natives

                  Tell it to the natives of Australia

                  Tell it to the natives of Africa

                  Tell it to the natives of China

                  And many, many other nations where the hand of Christianization reached ...
                  Do not have illusions about a variety of this or that current in Christianity. All of them have one Bible - one concept of enslavement of peoples.
                  1. +11
                    21 December 2017 14: 40
                    Dear Boris, you do not notice one dislike of Christianity for one obvious fact: the genocide of the aboriginal population was carried out by people who had a very mediocre attitude to the Christian Church and the Gospel teaching. The states dominated by the Orthodox Church baptized the conquered peoples without their extermination. An example is Russia with its more than a hundred peoples. Catholic countries were also merciful to the conquered peoples. I have already given you an example. The same facts that you are talking about were carried out by people who belonged to all sorts of Protestant sects, whose morality and attitude towards people were extremely far from Christian.
                    1. +5
                      21 December 2017 16: 01
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Catholic countries are also merciful to conquered nations.

                      One feature of Western thinking is that they always repent when the process they have begun to become irreversible.
                      1. +5
                        21 December 2017 17: 17
                        Question: What does Western thinking have to do with it? And why do you highlight the word "subjugated"? Do you not know that the history of most states originates in the conquest of one people by another or others?
                    2. +16
                      21 December 2017 16: 59
                      "The Catholic countries were also merciful to the conquered peoples." After these words, you are different. You cannot be called a monarchist obscurantist. The Vatican destroyed whole civilizations. The Crusades, Inquisition, America. Asia - millions of people were destroyed in the name of Christ. Entire civilizations.
                      1. +5
                        21 December 2017 17: 38
                        Quote: Seeker
                        The Vatican destroyed whole civilizations.

                        Are you serious now? And what civilizations were destroyed, for example, by the crusaders? Which, I will tell you a terrible secret, made their campaigns in response to the seizure of the Christian lands of the Middle East and Egypt. What nations were destroyed in Asia? Not to mention North America, where Protestant sectarians acted.
                        And the passage about the Inquisition is generally ridiculous. Most of those convicted by the Inquisitors survived:
                        The most famous anti-Inquisition data cited by Juan Antonio Llorente in the book "History of the Spanish Inquisition" for Spain in 1540-1700. According to his calculations, it turns out approximately 31 people burned in Spain, excluding its colonies. Sentenced to other types of punishment - 700. As you can see, even Llorente, who himself served as secretary in the Inquisition, but then broke up with her, admitted that the vast majority of sentences did not lead to execution.
                        http://ycnokoutellb.livejournal.com/9875.html
                      2. +7
                        21 December 2017 17: 40
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        Do you not know that the history of most states originates in the conquest of one people by another or others?

                        So what am I trying to tell you about? Before Christianity came to Russia, there was no state as an apparatus of minority violence over the majority. Pre-Christian Russia resisted this invasion as much as possible, but because of the betrayal of the Magi, we lost this battle. But the war is not over yet.
                  2. +6
                    21 December 2017 15: 08
                    Quote: Boris55
                    Tell it to US Natives

                    Especially in Central America where the Mayan and Aztec priests made human sacrifices, and then along with the same Cortes, some Indian tribes destroyed their own Indians.
                    The Chinese and Japanese are still those animals.
                    So do not.
                    1. +8
                      21 December 2017 15: 58
                      Quote: RUSS
                      The Chinese and Japanese are still those animals.

                      Are you the case, not from the CIA, pushing the idea of ​​promoting democracy in other countries? laughing
                      1. +4
                        21 December 2017 17: 55
                        Quote: Boris55
                        You are not from the CIA,

                        No chance.
                        Quote: Boris55
                        pushing ideas of democracy promotion to other countries?

                        I’m not pushing anything, what are we talking about?
                      2. +8
                        21 December 2017 18: 22
                        About the Japanese "detachment 734" and the massacre in Nanjing, I think you have heard?
                  3. +2
                    22 December 2017 05: 16
                    Quote: Boris55 And many, many other nations where the hand of Christianization reached ...

                    Yes, yes!
                  4. 0
                    23 December 2017 08: 47
                    Well, what does Christianity have to do with it? I myself am not a very Christian, but all your examples are examples of the activities of the adherents of the golden calf and the mammon.
                2. +7
                  21 December 2017 17: 33
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Are you talking about the Catholic Teutonic Order?

                  At that time, already Livonian, more precisely: the Livonian landmaster of the Teutonic Order. And believe me, Lieutenant, arguing with citizens of an alternative historical orientation is like playing chess with a pigeon! Leave the sick. Only lobotomy will help.
                  1. +6
                    21 December 2017 17: 45
                    Hello dear HanTengri! Thank you for correcting my inaccuracy. hi Yes, I once had the opportunity to experience the almost complete uneducability of citizens of an alternative historical orientation, but still when I see examples of such terrific ignorance in the field of history, I can not pass by. By the kindness of my soul, the hope flickers in me every time that I will be able to reach out to the mind and remnants of the logic of such citizens. Sometimes it turns out, although such cases are extremely rare.
                    1. +2
                      21 December 2017 22: 45
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Yes, I once had the opportunity to experience the almost complete uneducability of citizens of an alternative historical orientation, but still when I see examples of such terrific ignorance in the field of history, I can not pass by.

                      Understand. I gave you, here, clever advice .... And myself - on the same rake! laughing
                  2. +9
                    21 December 2017 21: 27
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    And, believe me, Lieutenant, arguing with citizens of an alternative historical orientation is like playing chess with a dove

                    Hello. hi Let’s do an experiment - I’ll take your children up for only five years, and ready to put life on the linethat in five years your children will hate you. wink
                    With the official story the same way - you seriously think. that the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of the ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?
                    That I so subtly hint at no alternative OFFICIAL STORY. And the stubbornness of some of its adherents.hi
                    1. +3
                      21 December 2017 22: 31
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Hello.

                      And ours, to you, the namesake, with a brush! hi
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Let’s do an experiment - I’ll take your children up for only five years, and I’m ready to put life at stake that in five years your children will hate you.

                      Probably. But, if in 5 years you will return them to me, then after a period of 2 weeks to 0,5 years they will love me again. For I am a psychologist (i.e., I was taught everyone, such was taught, but you are not!) bully This I subtly hint that the world is not as it seems at first glance, and even more so I want. hi
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      With the official story the same way - you seriously think. that the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of the ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?

                      A service corporation (squad), mainly immediately (because, for a pagan, that god is better for those who have more "buns" (material, here and now!). He is polytheistic, in fact). And the rest of the people ... The method of whip and deafening miracles works! (see Baptism of Novgorod) Not at once, of course, but with constant use ... (I made it extremely simple and vulgarized the opinion of official science if you did not understand.). laughing You, it seems to me, thought that they think a little differently! lol
                    2. +3
                      22 December 2017 05: 29
                      Quote: Ingvar 72 You seriously think. that the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of the ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?

                      Seriously, there’s nothing to think about. England: Whack and from a Catholic country has become a Protestant. You may not see much difference, but in fact, the differences are huge. France: temples are plundered and plundered during the bourgeois revolution, and, on the initiative of the citizens themselves, no one cheered them with their butts, only with the consent of the authorities. I think there would be dynamite and .... Russia: ....... Maybe, of course, you think that with the machine guns around the perimeter, the temples were destroyed? For the entire time of the demolition of churches, isolated cases of active opposition of parishioners were recorded. Emotions, some emotions. True believers in something, one, two and miscalculated. And with paganism, in general, there are no problems. Do not forget to burhan where it should be laughing
                      1. +3
                        22 December 2017 07: 59
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Seriously, there’s nothing to think about. England: Whack and from a Catholic country turned into a Protestant

                        How many people died during Whack? wink
                    3. +5
                      22 December 2017 10: 55
                      How many people died during Whack?

                      And how many people died during the “civil war”, in your opinion, instead of TMI? Do you have statistics? In England, for example, it is difficult to consider, because, at the same time, there was a "fence", but in general, under Henry 8, they didn’t put people badly, the data diverge (from 30 to 80 thousand or more). What age is it? Do you seriously think that even earlier, in the 13 century, the population census was carried out, as it is now? "Smokes" were considered in Russia, and how many lived there was a big question.
                      But, in general, in my opinion, the conversation was about something else, "Do you seriously think. That the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of their ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?" I, answered the question posed, "the majority of the population of any country and except Faith have enough worries." Yet, for most people, Vera, this question is more ideological and economic, rather than theological. The average peasant, unlike the average intellectual, has no time to think about abstractions, you need to survive.
                      1. +2
                        22 December 2017 15: 02
                        I do not quite agree. The Bulgarians from 1396 to 1878 did not become Muslims. There is one exception - the forcibly Muslim population in the Rhodope Mountains and parts of eastern Thrace (in the 1670's), but they also speak Bulgarian.
              2. +5
                21 December 2017 14: 11
                Quote: Boris55
                and only in Russia were such woodpeckers that, with joy, they refused the faith of their fathers and accepted the new faith ...

                But in Northern Germany, the "woodpeckers" retained paganism, and now from these "wise men" there are only names in the toponymy of Northern Germany. Maybe woodpeckers are those who have not accepted the good news ?!
                1. +4
                  23 December 2017 13: 59
                  Have you seriously voiced this crap?
                  In your betrayal of the ancestors after listening to the next "good news" and normal.
                  I did not betray, did not begin to cherish the ancestors and believe that they are all by default dirty pagans and now in hell, then you are a woodpecker.
                  1. 0
                    26 December 2017 23: 16
                    Dear Goluba, what does it mean to betray the faith of ancestors?)))) Once these ancestors believed in the fire of a bonfire, so that the faithful in Perun are also traitors!)))) Yes, and how can you seriously believe in it? Are you out of your mind? Who Slavs forcibly Christianized, if for another 100 years in Kiev there was a Christian church and there was a large Christian community! In the squad Svyatoslav were Christians. The Arab chronicler Ibn-Khordadbeg (author of the end of the 444th century), talking about the Rus (or rather, the Russian merchants who came to Baghdad), emphasized: “And they impersonate Christians and pay a jiziya” [385, p. 842; 77, p. 80]. Ibn-Khordadbeg wrote his book in the 170s of the 125th century, therefore, was a contemporary of Askold. Other information leads al-Masudi, the author of the X century. His data belong to a later time than the evidence of Ibn-Khordadbeg, but more ancient than the era of Vladimir. In his work, one part of the Slavs acts as Christians, and the other as pagans. “They have many cities,” Masudi writes, “as well as churches where they hang bells, which they beat with a hammer, just like in our country Christians hit a wooden hammer on a board” [XNUMX, p. XNUMX]. Therefore, when you write about violent Christianization, you are either a PROVOCATOR or a narrow-minded person!
                    1. 0
                      5 March 2018 09: 54
                      Here are usually those who consider their ancestors to be idiots — they say “ancestors believed in the fire of a fire”, hee-hee — these in the forefront run to receive blessings from “good uncles” and visiting preachers. In the memory of mankind, disrespect for the ancestors has always been considered the most powerful evil, the root of all ills. And this is no coincidence. And about the bells. - so they were cast before Christianity. Maybe not so pompous. Most of the old Christian churches are on the foundations of former "trash" places. and priests it doesn’t bother, - even pride is there, - how they won, they stood up “instead of” ignoramuses, prayers prayed!
              3. +3
                21 December 2017 20: 01
                Here the question is political and ideological. It is difficult for pagan cults to compete with the church organization and propaganda of the Abrahamic religions.
            3. +6
              21 December 2017 19: 14
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              And you are not embarrassed by the fact that there is not a word about this “resistance” either in secular or church chronicles?

              It doesn’t bother. No one in the world is embarrassed by the fact that the Third Reich was “defeated” by the Americans, and the participants in that war are still alive. The church has tried to whitewash itself beloved.
              1. +5
                21 December 2017 19: 33
                You still do not understand the meaning of my comment. If the aforementioned “resistance” existed once in reality, then the church chronicles would contain information about the victory over this resistance. The property of the human psyche is to perpetuate the victory over a strong enemy. But this is not in the chronicles.
                1. +4
                  21 December 2017 20: 37
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  You still do not understand the meaning of my comment.

                  I understand - you are diligently looking for excuses.
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  then church chronicles would contain information about the victory over this resistance

                  The clergy carefully extinct information about their crimes from history.
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  The property of the human psyche is to perpetuate the victory over a strong enemy.

                  Are you a psychologist or do you just talk like that? The property of the human psyche is to hide unsightly actions.
                  1. +2
                    22 December 2017 05: 38
                    The property of the human psyche is to perpetuate the victory over a strong enemy.
                    The property of the human psyche is to hide unsightly actions.

                    Classics of the genre. And where, do you see a logical contradiction? Both that, and another statement, is true. They do not contradict each other, because they "talk" about different properties of the same "subject" under discussion, and, accordingly, are not in semantic conflict. Unites them, this is the "human psyche." Compare, "the sun rises in the east and the sun sets in the west."
            4. +3
              21 December 2017 19: 33
              Horde - order, ordnung, were the Templars the Horde or the order? Marco Polo described the life and clothes of the Horde. It says there that you involuntarily wonder whether he was not there at all, or the Horde is not the same!
              1. +3
                21 December 2017 20: 41
                Quote: Khazarin
                It says there that you involuntarily wonder whether he was not there at all, or the Horde is not the same!

                Most likely, Marco Polo described everything correctly. But when rewriting history, many historical geographical concepts went for a walk "around the globe." The result is multiple inconsistencies.
                For example, historical China has nothing to do with the state of China and was most likely located somewhere in Russia.
            5. +4
              22 December 2017 15: 48
              That's right. Tartaria exists only on WESTERN maps, but there is no mention of it in Russian documents. Something I did not hear that Ivan the Third called himself - "Sovereign and Grand Duke, all of Tartaria."
              1. +2
                23 December 2017 08: 17
                These fools "wholeheartedly" took to Vera a map of the "Great Tartary Empire of Ancient Russia" from the British Encyclopedia from the West, and immediately complain that this West has misinterpreted and replaced it with history ................... ......
              2. +3
                26 December 2017 23: 23
                Not only in the Russian documents, according to the Dolboslavs, the clergy here annihilated everything, but it is strange that there is no mention of such a powerful state as Tartaria in its neighboring countries! Not in Chinese, Indian, Arab, Armenian, Persian, and only in the encyclopedias of Western countries that do not border on it and do not have any communications with it. And then they have Tartaria denoted by the word Territory, space! There is neither a coat of arms, nor a capital; only the largest city of Tobolsk is indicated. On ancient maps, Crimea belongs to Tartaria! All this looks like a duck for fools, followed by a revision of the borders!
                1. 0
                  3 January 2018 10: 25
                  The West can be understood, since all the land east of Russia, Russia was a mystery to them. They had data that they were inhabited by nomadic Turks and Mongols, generally called them TARTARS (who came from hell - Tartarus, as they called the Mongol Tatars during their invasion), they roughly knew the territory of their residence. But what kind of lands were north and east of the lands of these tartars and who inhabited them - they no longer knew, knowing only that there was a vast territory there. And making a map of all these lands, they brought this entire territory under one name - Tartaria ..... And now they slipped it to some "comrades who are not brilliant," wrapped it in a colorful, beautiful wrapper - and now we, the peoples of Russia, have very a good reason to fight each other .... What was required to achieve certain groups of people ....
            6. The comment was deleted.
            7. The comment was deleted.
            8. +1
              27 December 2017 01: 11
              There is such a thing - Jewish brides. Witches act very effectively. Their children are already enemies of their fathers.
              Pagans are resistance to changing the language. The gods were composed in the 18th century, and so on.
              Christianity is the label Iga, schism, and the change of the A-beginning to the In-matriarchy. The Greek Bible of Con Iga.
          2. +9
            21 December 2017 14: 06
            Quote: Boris55
            Tatar-Mongol yoke Christians are trying to cover up the genocide of the Russian people

            Can one indicate historical sources about the genocide of Russians by Christians? I would also like to know where the mass graves were found after the genocide?
          3. 0
            26 December 2017 22: 57
            You can see tight with humor, unlike Putin! I found evidence !! 1 and I didn’t know that the card was given to Tatar Shaimiev, but it should have been Russian, as a victim of "violent Christianization")))))) Or did the Tatars Christianize?)))
        3. +25
          21 December 2017 08: 55
          I support kalibra.
          And it has already been discussed several times.
          As much as our steppe friends would not like otherwise, the invasion was - and the yoke (as a phenomenon, its form - another question) as its consequences.
          As well as periodic subsequent invasions of Russia - with the aim of killing, robbing and hijacking artisans and slaves (a vivid example is the site of artisans in Saray-Batu, now the village of Selitrennoe).
          1. +21
            21 December 2017 09: 31
            Quote: Blue Cop
            I support kalibra.

            In addition to archeology, there are also other sciences.
            "... In order to clarify the most complete nonsense about the Mongol conquest, it is enough to turn to the data of even that historical" science ", which tries to prove the opposite. Actually, what traces the Mongols left after themselves:
            - Written sources - 0 (zero), which is not surprising, since the Mongols received their writing only in the twentieth century (before that various alphabets of more cultural peoples adapted). However, in the Russian chronicles (even if they are littered with very late fakes), no Mongols were mentioned even once.
            - Architectural monuments - 0 (zero).
            - Linguistic borrowing - 0 (zero): just as there is not a single Mongolian word in Russian, there were no borrowings from Russian in Mongolian until the twentieth century.
            - Cultural and legal borrowing - 0 (zero): neither in our everyday life is there anything from the Transbaikal nomads, nor the nomads took absolutely nothing from the much more cultured peoples allegedly conquered by them until the last century.
            - The economic consequences of conquering the world - 0 (zero): nomads robbed two-thirds of Eurasia, should they have brought at least something home? Let not libraries, but at least a piece of gold torn from the temples allegedly destroyed by them ... But there’s nothing at all.
            - Numismatic traces - 0 (zero): no Mongolian coins are known to the world.
            - In weapons business - 0 (zero).
            - There is no Mongolian folklore no, even phantom memories of his “great” past, which was noted by all Europeans who had contact with the natives, beginning in the XNUMXth century, when a wave of Russian colonization reached Transbaikalia.
            - Population genetics does not find the slightest trace of the stay of Transbaikal nomads in the vast expanses of Eurasia, which they conquered ... "
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 12: 06
              - In weapons business - 0 (zero).
              You can declare all sorts of different ways. The question is in the knowledge of the historiography of the problem, is not it? Are you of course familiar with this monographic study?
              1. +13
                21 December 2017 13: 10
                Quote: kalibr
                You can declare all sorts of different ways. The question is in the knowledge of the historiography of the problem, is not it? Of course, you are familiar with this monographic study.

                "... Archaeologists persistently insist on the many found remains of metallurgical furnaces and abandoned ore mines in the territory of modern Buryatia and, especially, Altai. ... ... When the Russian colonists began to explore Altai and Transbaikalia, they did not meet peoples with technologies metallurgical production. This is a fact. Historians interpret it as if the Mongols, Buryats, Oirats, Uyghurs and other nomads, once unsurpassed gunsmiths and warriors, had by then "forgotten" the secrets of steel production, had forgotten their great past, had forgotten their writing, had completely lost their militancy, and in general, returned to a wild, extremely primitive state ... "
                1. +2
                  21 December 2017 15: 54
                  Did you provide links to sources? And where are the authors, names, publishing house and year of release, where are the pages? You read Soloviev, and the books indicated in his bibliography.
                2. +6
                  21 December 2017 18: 17
                  Look at the ancient ukrov ... Previously, the sea was dug at the expense of "one or two", they clobber everyone within a radius of 1000 km and even (as the ancient Ukrainian books say) ancient ov ... And now, what has happened? Galloping flock ... Complete degradation)))
              2. +1
                27 December 2017 01: 13
                Artania in Transbaikalia, take an interest in toponymy. Sanskrit. Pictures are painted to please the Igu of Judah.
            2. bug
              +10
              21 December 2017 14: 16
              “Men-da bei-lu” (“Full description of the Mongol-Tatars”) is the oldest source on the history of Mongolia. “Description” is a note by the South Sun ambassador Zhao Hong, who visited Yanjing in 1221 with the commander of the Mongolian forces in northern China, Mkhali.

              “Chang-chun zhen-ren si-yu ji” (“Note on the Journey to the West by the Righteous Chang-chun”) is the most valuable historical source of the three works in Chinese.

              Hey da shi-lue ”(“ Brief Information on the Black Tatars ”) is a more important source on the history of the Mongols than“ Meng-da bei-lu ”and“ Chan-chun zhen-jen si-yu ji ”. These are summarized notes of two Chinese travelers - Peng Da-ya and Xu Ting, who traveled to Mongolia to the Ugadei court as members of South Sun diplomatic missions.

              Three written sources
              1. +6
                21 December 2017 21: 38
                Sun Cho In Tea, Take Out Su Chem. Here are two more written sources.
                1. +1
                  23 December 2017 09: 02
                  Your knowledge of Chinese is simply amazing in its breadth and depth.
              2. +4
                21 December 2017 22: 29
                Quote: error
                “Man-da-bai-lu”

                The original of which is allegedly stored in China, but no one can verify it - it's just a fake, like all of Chinese history. The earliest REALLY EXISTING Chinese historical document that could be verified dates back, do not stray, the seventeenth century AD.
            3. +3
              21 December 2017 15: 38
              Quote: Boris55
              - Written sources - 0 (zero), which is not surprising, since the Mongols received their writing only in the twentieth century

              The oldest of the actual Mongolian writing systems - Old Mongolian writing (classical Mongolian writing) - turned out to be the most successful of them, and after a number of modifications continues to be actively used to this day, primarily in the PRC. According to one legend, at the beginning of the formation of the Mongol Empire, about In 1204, Genghis Khan defeated the Naimans and captured the Uyghur scribe, Tatatunga, who adapted the Uyghur alphabet (ascending through the Sogdian to the Syriac alphabet) to write the Mongolian language.
              Quote: Boris55
              Numismatic traces - 0 (zero): no Mongolian coins are known to the world.
            4. +9
              21 December 2017 16: 35
              Next, we consider the theses
              1.
              Thesis
              R1a1 DNA is present in unchanged form. If there was a yoke, then this did not happen. For example, here is an article on this topic http://folksland.net/m/articles/view/RUSSKAYA-KRO
              V-ISTORIYA-I-GEOPOLITIKA
              Antithesis
              Weak argument due to the fact that TM was not assimilated with the Russians. In Russia (you need to understand the phrase like this: “lived next to the Russians”), only small detachments that collected tribute did not live. And because there were few Mongols in the army of Batu, there were also Caucasoid Tatars and Kipchaks. About half of Russians and a third of Tatars have the same haplogroup - R1a. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BF%D
              0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0_R1
              a_%28Y-%D0%94%D0%9D%D0%9A%29
              2.
              Thesis
              There are no references to TMI on the territory of Mongolia.
              Antithesis
              It is not true, the sources have been preserved, this is indicated by today's nationalist surge in Mongolia and interest in the period of Genghis Khan's reign.
              Here, for example, “The Secret Legend” in the Mongolian language, recorded by Chinese characters. http://bookz.ru/authors/bez-avtora/sokroven_903.h
              tml
              In confirmation, you can give links on this topic:
              Rashid ad-Din Fazlullah Hamadani. Collection of annals. - T. 1. Prince 1. Per. L. A. Khetagurova, 1952
              Rashid ad-Din Fazlullah Hamadani. Collection of annals. - T. 1. Prince 2. Per. O. I. Smirnova, 1952;
              Yuan-chao bi-shi. The secret legend of the Mongols. Per. S. A. Kozina, 1941;
              Yuan Shi. History of the Yuan Dynasty. - M .: Beijing, 1976.
              Guillaume de Rubruck: http://kitap.net.ru/archive/13.php
              Carpini Plan: http://kitap.net.ru/archive/12.php
              Marco Polo: http://www.lib.ru/INPROZ/POLO_M/mir.txt
              3.
              Thesis
              No archaeological evidence of TMI
              Antithesis
              This is a lie, there are a lot of archaeological evidence:
              http://nauka.izvestia.ru/news/article56948.html
              http://baikal.irkutsk.ru/index.php?rubr=15&do
              c = 74
              http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/sie/17077/%D0%A1%D
              0%AB%D0%93%D0%9D%D0%90%D0%9A
              http://www.ancientcity.ru/goroda-tataro-mongolov/
              saray-berke.html
              4.
              Thesis
              “In the annals of the Right Orthodox Old Believers about the“ Tatar-Mongol yoke ”it is said unequivocally:“ There was Fedot, but not that one. ” Let us turn to the Old Slovenian language. Having adapted the runic images to modern perception, we get: a thief - an enemy, a robber; Mughal-mighty; the yoke is order. It turns out that the “Tati Arias” (from the point of view of the Christian flock) were called “Tatars” by the light hand of the chroniclers 1, (There is another meaning: “Tata” - father. Tatar - Tata Arias, i.e. Fathers (Ancestors or the older) Arias) powerful - by the Mongols, and the yoke - the 300-year-old order in the Stainless, which ended the bloody civil war that broke out on the basis of the forcible baptism of Russia - "holy martyrdom." The Horde is a derivative of the word Order, where "Ohr" is power and day is daylight, or simply "light." Accordingly, the "Order" is the Power of Light, and the "Horde" is the Light Forces. So these Light Forces of the Slavs and Arians, led by our Gods and Ancestors: Rod, Svarog, Sventovit, Perun, stopped the civil war in Russia on the basis of violent Christianization and 300 years kept order in the Stainless. Were there dark-skinned, stocky, dark-skinned, hunch-nosed, narrow-eyed, bent-legged and very angry warriors in the Horde? There were. "Mercenary detachments of different nationalities, which, like in any other army, were driven in the forefront, preserving the main Slavic-Aryan troops from losses on the front line."
              Antithesis
              We see a number of positions of the Ingling sect. We'll have to break this thesis into several.
              1. There are maps of the great Tartary, which prove the Greatness of Russia (Slavic-Arius)
              2. Tartaria - Fathers of Aria
              3. TMI is nothing more than a civil warrior. (Pagans vs. Christians)

              - You can read Vyacheslav Lopatin on the maps for their significance http://www.scaliger.ru/texts/tartar.html where it is clearly proved on what and how historical revisionists speculate. Tartaria = Tataria. Other facts are perfectly stated in the article.
              Let's say it another way. Give at least one source where the country of Tartaria was mentioned that is not comparable with Tatarstan.
              - Tartaria - the Fathers of Aria, and the "Horde" - the Light Forces. This is a direct linguistic fraud. Firstly, the words “horde” (Inglings use the token “order”) are not present in Old Russian vocabulary. Secondly, from what kind of runes? The Englings did not cite either the graphic structure, the phonetic series, or the archaeological sites in which graphemes of their runes were used. So why on earth should seriously consider the methods of such word formation? Thirdly, the Englings easily transform the method of decomposing a word into a convenient one. That is, they change the approach. For example, they use different semantically meaningful units (letter, syllable, root, a combination of several approaches). This is impossible from the point of view of linguistics, since language is primarily a structure. And the diversity of the approach does not just break the structure, it excludes the approach itself as a method.
              - Englings are developing their theory of civil warriors, for example, quote the following quote:
              “Before entering the Batu’s tent, the Mongol priests ordered him to go through the sacred fire and bow to their idols, to which Michael, a true Christian replied:“ I can bow to your Tsar, for Heaven has given him the fate of the earthly states; but the Christian serves neither fire nor deaf idols. ” This proves, from their point of view, a religious warrior. But why did the Inglings take that the Mongol idols are identical with the Slavic idols ???
              As you know, the Mongol idols were with pronounced ethnic dominants.


              If you go from the opposite and admit a civilian warrior. How to enter into the concept: burnt cities and villages, taking people into slavery, tribute, cultural markers of Russian and Mongol warriors, etc. It turns out - and we are talking about one ethnos - that the Great Slavic-Arians were thieves, speculators, and murderers. And why, then, were they so loyal to the church in Russia?
              5.
              Thesis
              A million-strong horse army would simply not have enough feed.
              Antithesis
              And what is the millionth army in question? Is it from the category that Christians destroyed millions of pagans in Russia? Friends strength, Old Russian cities are easy to install: http://krotov.info/lib_sec/19_t/tih/omirov_02.htm
              Talking about multimillion-dollar Russia is not just stupid, but extremely stupid. If there were 10-20 thousand people in a city, this city was already considered Great. Therefore, it is simply not correct to talk about the multi-million dollar extermination of the pagans, as well as talking about the million-strong TM army. And answering the question of opponents, we say that the climatic conditions in which the TM lived were much worse than in the center of Russia, therefore it is simply impossible to talk about frost and other things in the context of the climate (see photo of the Mongolian landscape). This is not an argument.



              You can continue to give smaller arguments, for example, discrepancies in the names of princes, or the same image of warriors on icons, etc., but this is no longer significant, since it is clear that there was a TMI.
              And in conclusion, I would like to quote the scientists who characterize the “historians” of Fomenko and Nosovsky: “It is unthinkable to argue with Fomenko at the level of scientific evidence, the world historical science does not take it seriously”.
              (From an article by Dr. I. Sventitskaya in the journal Nature.)
              D.M. Volodikhin, candidate of historical sciences, teacher of the history department of Moscow State University, senior researcher at the Russian State Archive of Ancient Acts, does not see in A.T. Fomenko and his team of mathematicians a single drop of scientific honesty and no true factual data. Moreover, he believes that these works deal a terrible blow throughout Russian history.
              Academician V. Yanin believes that “Fomenko’s ideas are especially dangerous for our youth, who, like all young people, craves changes and a greed for the new.”
              Professor A. Pornov, proved the failure of Fomenko's ideas.
              Stanislav Sviridov
              Published on http://slaviy.ru/rodnoverie-v-voprosax-i-otvetax/
              i-snova-kv ...
              1. +3
                21 December 2017 22: 29
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                the slavery of people

                Here you can see from the point of view that if there was a state, then there was an army! There was tithe with blood that was paid by all the inhabitants of Eurasia, and whom you later called Cossacks. The withdrawal of people not into slavery, but into service, and cruelty with burning is the result of disobedience. After all, how many times did the icon of the Mother of God save her from such ruin, and if it is just a manifestation of humility !? That is, the appearance of the icon as a recognition of the power of the Mother of God and her son. It was not for nothing that only in Russia they went into battle with the face of Christ, but for the West it’s with the image of a king! And the appearance of the image of the king’s mother meant his recognition.
                They didn’t take them into slavery but to serve, and the younger the better (remember the myth of Sparta, where soldiers were raised from childhood), and this could cause resistance, and many folded cities, when they themselves did not want to give in to the army and did not recognize the supreme and him mother...
                You look at the Cossacks, they are all different, this can be called a consequence of such an appeal, and not only the population now speaks of Slavic appearance.
                And the fact that women were taken away, so now they are called Cossacks, it was also necessary to build families.
                1. 0
                  23 December 2017 09: 20
                  Most of you poor fellow got confused in their historical research. If it was a civil-religious war of the pagans against alien Christianity, then how could images of Christian (alien) saints save?
                  1. +2
                    25 December 2017 22: 45
                    Quote: Mic1969
                    Most of you poor fellow got confused in their historical research. If it was a civil-religious war of the pagans against alien Christianity, then how could images of Christian (alien) saints save?

                    Am I really about that?
                    Quote: Mic1969
                    religious war

                    You know, the ossification of perception does not allow you to look at the world with a problem! it is perceived as already studied, and this makes it impossible to notice the differences ...
              2. +2
                22 December 2017 15: 56
                Nikolaevich, bravo!
                1. +3
                  23 December 2017 04: 17
                  Well what are you! feel It’s our duty to protect the history of our Motherland! soldier
                  wink
              3. +3
                25 December 2017 20: 51
                1. Thesis
                Antithesis
                Weak argument due to the fact that TM was not assimilated with the Russians. In Russia (you need to understand the phrase like this: “lived next to the Russians”), only small detachments that collected tribute did not live. And because there were few Mongols in the army of Batu, there were also Caucasoid Tatars and Kipchaks.
                Anit-anti-thesis.
                You have an even weaker argument. Since it is not an argument at all, but purely your personal assumption. And for some reason, expressed in an edifying and imperative tone.
                2.
                Antithesis
                It is not true, the sources have been preserved, this is indicated by today's nationalist surge in Mongolia and interest in the period of Genghis Khan's reign.
                Anti-anti-thesis.
                The interest is caused solely by the commercial demand for the Genghis Khan brand. Khalkha (appointed to be Mongols), 200 years ago and not suspecting such an ancestor, now they will even show you the toilet in which Genghis Khan left a bunch.

                For example….
                Nothing in the example came to us in the original. When and by whom it is written is unknown. Regarding Marco Polo, at least half of even official historians doubt that he really traveled somewhere beyond the Caucasus.
                3.
                Thesis
                No archaeological evidence of TMI
                Antithesis
                This is a lie, there is a lot of archaeological evidence.

                Anti-anti-thesis. To draw some finds by the ears to the desired historical period is now easier than ever. Archaeologists simply check the historical tablets carefully prepared by historians.
                4. Antithesis.
                Anti-anti-thesis.
                This is generally not amenable to analysis, since both the thesis and antithesis are nonsense.
                5.
                Thesis
                A million-strong horse army would simply not have enough feed.
                Antithesis
                And what is the millionth army in question?
                Anti-anti-thesis. We are talking about the army of thousands, which the official tradition tells us about.
                But it, as you rightly noted, is impossible.
                And with smaller military units, the same traditional history claims that our princes successfully coped (Khazars, Pechenegs, Torques, Polovtsy).
              4. +1
                27 December 2017 01: 19
                Take a map, see Transbaikalia. The territory was called Artania. Toponymy Aryan. The Mangala-Aryans went peacefully west with the Serbs, but Igo from the Jews decided to make them guilty of "baptism."
            5. +3
              21 December 2017 17: 07
              Quote: Boris55
              "... In order to clarify the most complete nonsense about the Mongol conquest, it is enough to turn to the data of even that historical" science ", which tries to prove the opposite. Actually, what traces the Mongols left after themselves:

              Sir, “Yours” theses are also a fragment of an article that I advise everyone to read: ABOUT REFUSERS OF THE TATAR-MONGOL IGA, AND ALSO ABOUT THE USE OF VISITING MUSEUMS (https://gosh100.livejournal.com/69452.html)
            6. +4
              21 December 2017 17: 56
              Quote: Boris55
              - Numismatic traces - 0 (zero): no Mongolian coins are known to the world.

              For those who, in childhood, were put on a battery head and google, forever, banned: https://www.google.com/search?q=coins+gold+or
              dd + directory & client = opera & hs = 8n4 & tbm = is
              ch & tbo = u & source = univ & sa = X & ved = 0ah




              http://antikvariat.club/coins/coins_golden_horde/



              http://kladokopatel.ru/books/102-serebryanye-mone
              ty-zolotoi-ordy.html
          2. +2
            21 December 2017 19: 18
            Quote: Blue Cop
            As much as our steppe friends would not like otherwise, the invasion was - and the yoke (as a phenomenon, its form is another question) as its consequences.

            Igo - from Old Slavonic - communication, union. Once there was a great yoke, in the twentieth century - the Soviet yoke.
            1. +2
              27 December 2017 01: 23
              I-go (state), like Manzhou-go, from the I-beginning, In-matriarchy. The value of bond-fetters acquired after the organization of slavery. Now the Igo is in its prime again, Christianity is its mark.
        4. +15
          21 December 2017 09: 59
          Quote: kalibr
          Links, links to archeology data.

          There can be no links, for there is nothing to refer to.
          the author of CAM contradicts himself: on the one hand, he writes that only highly developed civilizations could carry out such captures.
          But where material traces of the Scythian-Siberian world of Rus: cities, roads, engineering structures? Such as those left by the Roman, Greek civilization to which he refers? A-NO them!
          , as for the fact that the nomads "could not": so maybe there was no great migration of peoples from Asia? and Attila was not? And there wasn’t a devastated Europe?
          I remember:
          Mom Mom
          "Batu" -batya! Yes
          1. +6
            21 December 2017 11: 27
            Slavs lived in the territory of modern Germany, at least according to the place names. And from there they were first pushed east. So, there were no nomads in the literal sense of the word by definition. It may be something like PMCs, such as "Wagner."
            Did not have forty-eighth handfuls of German shepherds, and there were Slavic tribes from Europe. See the cartographic heritage!
          2. +1
            21 December 2017 21: 46
            Yes, they didn’t just find it, then they didn’t indulge in concrete ... Arkaim only for now, maybe something else will happen ...
        5. +13
          21 December 2017 11: 15
          And who said that these tips are Mongolian? These "forks" are ranked as Mongolian, like other elements of weapons ..... no one can say for sure until now that these are the Mongols. By the way, archaeological research was repeatedly carried out in Mongolia itself .... there were no metallurgical furnaces and other devices for making weapons, well, medieval Mongols did not know how to mine metals on an industrial scale, process it and make weapons. Then the question is who did all this?
          1. +4
            21 December 2017 15: 51
            "And who said that these tips are precisely Mongolian?" - Will you give all the historiography on the topic or will there be enough links to Soloviev’s book? Look, there's even a cover somewhere.
        6. +16
          21 December 2017 11: 44
          Hello, dear Vyacheslav Olegovich! I wholeheartedly support you from the first to the last word! The author of this opus not only does not provide links to studies confirming his words, but also exposes his own speculations as the ultimate truth. For a scientific article, this is unacceptable, but for creations in the style of "fantasy" - completely. The author would write books in this genre - with the "Slavic-Arians", war mammoths and collections of battle magicians, I believe that with such a developed imagination, these books would have turned out to be wonderful for Mr. Samsonov. Unlike articles.
          1. +7
            21 December 2017 12: 55
            Thanks! After all, I want to convey to people ... If you study something and have something to say, right now there are all the possibilities. No need to refer to what the next general secretary said at the next congress. A lot of magazines, both here and abroad. In some articles, they are not even edited, and they come out with errors in the title !!! But there are rules. All of these articles should contain references to sources, it is indicated - “studies have established,” “a comparison of the texts of the annals has shown” (moreover, which texts, page, storage number, archive, etc.) are indicated. Paying attention to inconsistencies in the history, it is indicated that other authors wrote on this subject, because all of them are known. Also about the photographs of the Wall - an indication of North-South should be present and the shooting point indicated (this is done), Then - a remake or not, otherwise masons-reconstructors could mix up haha, drank vodka and ... Only this way and nothing else. Nobody needs empty ideas today. That is, if the author cited at the end a list of his scientific publications on this topic, then we could say that this is its popularization. But ... there is no list. So this is the basic material. And the basic material served at such a level is nonsense!
          2. +5
            21 December 2017 19: 22
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            The author of this opus not only does not provide links to research confirming his words, but also exposes his own speculation as truth

            Are you crazy? What is such evidence? It’s not accepted in history! Gentlemen ... (crossed out) historians believe each other's word.
        7. +5
          21 December 2017 16: 01
          On the tips should I assume it says "Made in Mongolia"?
        8. +4
          21 December 2017 20: 11
          Quote: kalibr
          What does the author refer to? Such articles without links all the same as sandpaper sold instead of toilet paper!

          I join you, the article is nonsense. One of the shells of the information war, knocking a brick from the remains of the building of public consciousness inherent in us.
          1. +3
            21 December 2017 20: 48
            Quote: aybolyt678
            I join you, the article is nonsense.

            History in general is ALL nonsense and nothing - people hawala.
            Quote: aybolyt678
            remnants of the building of public consciousness

            What is it and what does it eat?
            1. +3
              21 December 2017 21: 30
              There is a doctrine about social consciousness, which has 3 levels. The first is superficial - public opinion. The second is that we are Russian, and we cannot be defeated, and the third is basic. If you violate the 3rd layer, then the person loses identification. With Europe, this is done through universal state sexualization of the population, and with us through changes in the facts on which we are brought up.
              1. +3
                21 December 2017 22: 16
                Quote: aybolyt678
                and with us through changes in the facts on which we are brought up.

                And you do not mind that you are brought up on false "facts"?
                Quote: aybolyt678
                there is a doctrine about social consciousness, which has 3 levels

                What kind of teaching is this, give the link we will "learn"!
                Quote: aybolyt678
                If you violate the 3rd layer, then the person loses identification.

                Do you yourself believe in all this dregs about the levels of public consciousness?
                1. 0
                  22 December 2017 07: 32
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  What kind of teaching is this, give the link we will "learn"!

                  Lisichkin "The war after the war"
                2. +3
                  22 December 2017 12: 13
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  And you do not mind that you are brought up on false "facts"?

                  I am confused when unverified historical information, essentially a duck, is inflated and presented as a proven fact. Moreover, far-reaching conclusions are already being drawn from it. Secondly: in Yevpatia Kolovrat, Kozelsk, the morale of the Russian boys was nurtured when they could die with a couple in battle with superior enemy forces. Turning the story upside down, we violate the already violated system of education of the defender.
                  Vladimir Chivilikhin "Memory" is what I know from the Tatar-Mongol.
                  1. +3
                    22 December 2017 19: 50
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    I am confused when unverified historical information, essentially a duck, is inflated and presented as a proven fact.

                    We have the whole story - unverified information, and you don’t foam anything about this.
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Secondly: in Yevpatia Kolovrat, Kozelsk, the morale of the Russian boys was nurtured when they could die with a couple in battle with superior enemy forces.

                    All this was invented not even under the tsar, but under the communists.
                    1. +2
                      23 December 2017 04: 36
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      All this was invented not even under the tsar, but under the communists.

                      and the kings and communists were different, no need to crap on their own past
                      1. +3
                        23 December 2017 18: 38
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        and the kings and communists were different, no need to crap on their own past

                        It’s impossible to spoil the past, you have some kind of substitution of concepts.
                    2. +1
                      23 December 2017 08: 21
                      "
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      We have the whole story - unverified information,

                      In other words - you do not know anything about your story ..... And then you say - THIS WASN’T. JUST HAS NOT BEEN BECAUSE IT COULD NOT BE ... You have nothing bursting from a contradiction to yourself ...?
                      1. +3
                        24 December 2017 14: 16
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        THIS WASN’T. JUST HAS NOT BEEN BECAUSE IT COULD NOT BE ...

                        This was not because there is no evidence for this; I am not ready to take a word of historians.
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        In other words - you do not know anything about your story .....

                        I have always had a great history in the subject, and yes, we all don’t know anything about our history, but we know the propaganda that they push us all at school, and this applies to all people in the world, and not just our country.
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        Nothing bursts from you there from a contradiction to yourself ...?

                        And there is no contradiction - no evidence - no history.
        9. +3
          21 December 2017 20: 33
          kalibr "In it are a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia." What arrows? Yes, even the Mongol?))) You are now scaring all the elves. Although they all have answers.))) If you notice the orderlies write to me)))) they should be sent immediately to the author.)))
        10. +1
          22 December 2017 00: 16
          so you go to this very museum and look at the skulls.
          By the way, if in the future there will be excavations in Africa, then scientists will think that Russia conquered it, everywhere Kalashnikovs and RPGs.
        11. 0
          23 December 2017 12: 36
          > a bunch of Mongolian arrowheads identical to the arrowheads from the territory of Mongolia

          what about anthropology? How about the fact that Timur, according to Gerasimov who examined him, is a complete European. In order to finally clarify his idea, the other day in Most (this is a scientifically popular application, Russian-language, available on the network), there was an article by Episkoposyan that Mycenaeans and Minoans, as a result of DNA analysis, found a bunch of Armenian genes. Of course, there are not only Armenian, but including. This is the work of Western scientists.

          Where are the DNA test results ? arrows and tips have no evidence of anthropological power
      3. +14
        21 December 2017 09: 09
        I have a question in essence of the article.
        It is stated here that I quote: “a handful of Mongolian shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, could in no way conquer the Rurikovich’s empire.”
        And how then did a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, were able to destroy the Western Roman Empire, which had factors (the term from the article, I would use the word "sign") great empires and powers?
        The so-called "Mongols" did not bring a single Mongol word to Russia or a single skull of a representative of the Mongoloid race.

        And this is a direct ignoring of the facts. The Russian language is replete with words of Tatar-Mongolian origin, and skulls are still being dug up to this day.
        1. +10
          21 December 2017 11: 42
          buddy! no and cannot be Mongol-Tatar words! for: the Mongols are the Mongoloids, and the Tatars - the Turkic Turkic words are borrowed and indeed quite a lot - so we lived side by side! and the Mongol - dumb!
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 12: 29
            And you sir as a Mongol from the Turk distinguish when they stand next? Those who speak Turkic languages ​​such as Tatars and Turks are still Turks. You look at the Kumandy, Yakut, and then you will see how the Türks look, and not every cross between it is not clear why.
            1. +3
              22 December 2017 00: 17
              easy . or are you one of those who can not distinguish the Chinese from the Turk?
              1. +2
                22 December 2017 06: 42
                You apparently did not understand the question, due to poor knowledge of the Russian language. I’ll write again, maybe you will understand. So, if you put a kumannitsa, a yakut and a Mongol next to you, you will understand which of them is who? Read the comment carefully and its meaning will not elude you.
                1. +5
                  22 December 2017 09: 57
                  my friend, I’m not talking about people (I’ll tell a damn), but about words that cannot be "Mongol-Tatar" but Mongolian or Tatar
                  1. +3
                    22 December 2017 11: 28
                    Our friendship with you is a very controversial issue, but oh well. This is what I am telling you: for: the Mongols are Mongoloids, and the Tatars are Türks. And I politely showed you. that Mongoloidity is a racial type, and there are both Turkic-speaking Mongoloids and Caucasians. Those. You don’t see the difference between race and language, that there is wild game that catches your eye. Refute.
                    1. +5
                      22 December 2017 11: 51
                      I will not risk it, for it is neither a philologist nor an anthropologist, one question is - the Mongols are Mongoloid from Mongolia, but what language did they speak? in Turkic?
                      1. +1
                        22 December 2017 12: 00
                        First in Mogul, the language of the Scythians, then in Kipchak, then in Kazakh .. And what?
                      2. 0
                        22 December 2017 12: 43
                        It’s possible to get an idea of ​​the relationship between the Turkic and Mongolian languages. Https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D1%82%
                        D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%8F%D0%B7%
                        D1% 8B% D0% BA% D0% B8 The Mongols, of course, spoke the Mongolian language of that time. Pay attention to this line in Wiki: Western (Turkic-Mongolian), which broke up in the middle. 4th millennium BC e. to the Turkic and Mongolian branches (25 matches in a 100-word list.
                      3. +2
                        22 December 2017 20: 43
                        Shahno, do the Mongols speak Kazakh?
                2. +3
                  22 December 2017 20: 41
                  and which of the Yakuts or Mongols belongs to the Turks?
                  and then someone led here a speech that the TURKS with the Mongols on one face, and not the Yakuts.
                  1. +1
                    22 December 2017 21: 07
                    Quote: just explo
                    and which of the Yakuts or Mongols belongs to the Turks?

                    Yakuts are the Turks .. fool
                    1. +2
                      22 December 2017 21: 16
                      how long have they become Turks? otherwise Romanians adopted the Romance language, although they can be called Thracians, Romanians and Moldovans Italians, well, or Romans?
                      1. 0
                        22 December 2017 21: 26
                        Quote: just explo
                        how long have they become Turks?
                        Then one can ask the following question: how long have the Great Russians become Slavs ?!
                        Quote: just explo
                        otherwise Romanians adopted the Romance language, although they can be called Thracians, Romanians and Moldovans Italians, well, or Romans?
                        and so the Finno-Ugrians adopted the Slavic language, but the Finno-Ugrians belong to the Slavs .. feel
                      2. +2
                        22 December 2017 21: 49
                        not only long ago, but initially, in fact, all other Slavs are branches from them, split off under the invasion of external factors.
                        and Finno-Ugrians are not ranked among the Slavs, these are fairy tales of Erbins from Kaklov, who began to consider themselves Slavs and are trying to oust their Slavs from the Slavs themselves.
                        By the way, the Finno-Ugrians from the Aryans themselves, Ugra is the son of a kshatriya and Vaishyanka.
                        formed in Siberia.
                      3. 0
                        23 December 2017 08: 23
                        All is correct. Yakuts - Turkic-speaking people
                      4. +1
                        25 December 2017 05: 02
                        You read something about the Yakuts ..... Just an adult does not write any game.
                  2. +1
                    25 December 2017 05: 00
                    Sir, read how the conversation began and you will understand what it is about. Either you are reading from the middle, or the meaning is slipping away. But the fact that a person confuses the concepts of race (Mongoloid) and language (Türkic-speaking).
        2. +3
          22 December 2017 00: 04
          Quote: forty-eighth
          And how then did a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, were able to destroy the Western Roman Empire, which had factors (the term from the article, I would use the word "sign") great empires and powers?

          What an amazing statement!
          Russia = Roman Empire, Mongols = Germans!
          That is, if we take as a basis the assertion that there are no Germans, then the Mongols are logical too!
          Look at the map, there all of Europe consists of the Western Slavs, who were Germanized, from the word: I do not understand them. As an example of Germanization, I can give an example of the Slavs in the territory that is now called Ukraine! And already even the mov of which it becomes more and more difficult to understand, not to mention consciousness.
          And the Germans, this is a work of 18-19 centuries, as a prerequisite for the so-called section of the so-called Poland, which as a fact appeared from the section of the then "European Union". Hope this story is obvious? And the Germans in it and does not smell !!
          1. +1
            22 December 2017 00: 18
            a little bit wrong, western Germany is still not Slavs, these are Celts.
            in fact, both Germany and Ukraine are one and the same story, 2 different peoples, on the same territory. which imposes one common culture and language. only in Germany did it work. and in Ukraine, the project is stalled.
        3. 0
          23 December 2017 12: 38
          > And how, then, a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization

          western RI for several centuries used Germanic tribes to protect against the same Germanic. To this they were forced by the demographic situation in the empire. That is, the training of these barbarians in the army lasted several centuries
      4. +8
        21 December 2017 10: 22
        Quote: venaya
        Want to understand in more detail - we will help!

        Details of what? Delirium. Anyone who is trying to write such articles is better off getting into the net and downloading reports on archaeological expeditions and explaining the fact that in the places of the conjugated Russian cities in large numbers are the remains of people of both the Slavic and Mongoloid races, and fragments of weapons and protective equipment, like typical for Russia and for the eastern countries.
        And it would be nice to get an answer, who in the middle of the 14th century walked the “iron rink”, not only in Russia, but also in Europe ...
        1. +8
          21 December 2017 11: 08
          Quote: svp67
          .. it would be nice to get an answer, who is in the middle of the 14th century he walked with an "iron rink", not only in Russia, but also in Europe ...

          And who will allow it? The article clearly states that the winners write History! Have you ever turned on the TV? Look at the faces - there’s no way to find local people there “day with fire”, a similar situation with the amazing “science” is “History”. Let us recall Leninsky: ".. mail, telegraph, train stations .." - Forgot something? For the first century, among the hundreds of academics at the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Ingushetia, there was only one local academician named M. Lomonosov, and that “by-bye” - according to the denunciation of academics and by the decision of the Senate of the Republic of Ingushetia, this one was sentenced to death, though Ekaterina was frightened they decided to imprison this decision (execution) for 8 months, after which he died suddenly, naturally "by accident". Any questions? So I do not advise you to get into historical "science", it is still not very safe. What tricks the enemies of Russia just don’t take - you can’t count the diversity, but regarding the reports of archaeologists, this “sword” also hangs over them, it’s enough to recall that in the excavations of the Scythian mounds all the soldiers were headless, though the head was accidentally in place, the “watchmen” blinked, Russian archaeologists accidentally appeared on the excavation site, and all the centuries hidden what had been hidden went to ashes: It turned out that the Scythians had a purely Russian appearance, by the way this is clearly noticeable on their gold jewelry. Here we have such a sad story about the “History” and some aspects of archeology. I hope that I have clearly enough explained some of the features of some of the "sciences."
          1. +7
            21 December 2017 12: 08
            Quote: venaya
            by the decision of the Senate of the Republic of Ingushetia, this only one was sentenced to death, although Catherine was afraid to bring this decision to action (execution), they decided to put him in jail for 8 months, after which he died suddenly, naturally "by accident".

            Uh ... This, sorry, what? Quote from a very alternative story novel?
            The real Mikhail Vasilievich Lomonosov died at the zenith of glory in his house from pneumonia.
            The scientific fame of Lomonosov reaches its zenith. In May 1760 he was elected an honorary member of the Swedish Academy of Sciences, and in April 1764 - an honorary member of the Academy of Sciences of the Bologna Institute. While in Paris, I. I. Shuvalov intended to submit Lomonosov’s candidacy to the Paris Academy, but it was already too late. April 4 (15), 1765 "after a new seizure of his former illness, which he had developed from a cold," Lomonosov died in his house on the Moika. On April 8, he was buried with a large crowd of people at the Lazarevsky cemetery of the Alexander Nevsky Lavra. A monument made of Italy from Carrara marble was installed on his grave.
            https://narfu.ru/lomonosov/about/biography.php
            1. +5
              21 December 2017 13: 03
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              The real Mikhail Vasilievich Lomonosov died at the zenith of glory in his house from pneumonia.

              Why is he and where did he earn the so-called "pneumonia"? With his income. Did he not go to jail? That the Senate has not sentenced him to death? And what does the Swedish Academy of Sciences have to do with it? After all, representatives of the Academy of Ingushetia, and not Sweden, were knocking at it. That's because he had a sky-high authority at the World Scientific Level, Catherine didn’t dare to execute (enforce) the Senate’s sentence, but they treated him with a cunning clash, so to speak, “both ours and yours”. Is it really not clear? To learn more about this topic, see: "The death penalty and Mikhail Lomonosov!"- https://rusvic.ru/index.php?threads/Mortal
              b-and-Mikhail-Lomonosov. 1310 /. There is more about in. Academies and about "ours." There are other similar materials, there are already many publications on this subject. So unfortunately very few people know about the real M. Lomonosov.
              1. +6
                21 December 2017 13: 15
                Why is he and where did he earn the so-called "pneumonia"? With his income. Did he not go to jail?

                And where are the revenues? Bacteria and viruses don't care what your income is. Before antibiotics, pneumonia was one of the most common deaths. Overcooling, no problem. I drank a few cups, zelo of strong wine, walked around with an open coat and "music will play in your house, but you won’t hear it." Influenza also appeared yesterday. The main complication is the same as pneumonia.
                1. +2
                  22 December 2017 22: 16
                  Does the existence of bacteria cancel the Senate sentence?
                  and if there has been persecution of a person, then does the disease cancel these persecutions?
                  1. 0
                    23 December 2017 03: 26
                    The stage of "red guardianship" ends lethally within two days, sometimes, or even faster.
              2. +6
                21 December 2017 13: 35
                Sorry, but your link ... as it’s softer to say ... it not only leads to the forum of some anti-Semites with an admixture of neo-Nazism elements (statements about races, etc.), but also refers to material that doesn’t confirmed by sources and contains footnotes on the forum of some esotericists (!) and the so-called "new chronology" Fomenko! This, to put it mildly, is like referring to the Ren-TV program about aliens from the planet Nibiru.
            2. +8
              21 December 2017 14: 23
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Uh ... This, sorry, what? Quote from a very alternative story novel?

              The lieutenant, venaya a noble writer, He already wrote a lot of things, referring to the same science fiction writers, but already from the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences.
              1. +4
                21 December 2017 14: 30
                Thank you for notification! hi References to the "academicians" of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences are, of course, a "strong" argument. smile
                1. +2
                  22 December 2017 00: 24
                  Do you trust the London Academy?
            3. +2
              22 December 2017 00: 23
              I'm talking about Ivan Poddubny, I can also write that he died at the zenith of glory and in the comfort of a mild heart attack, but I just won’t write that his health undermined chronic malnutrition and exhaustion.
              and upa, the picture is reversed.
          2. +3
            21 December 2017 18: 10
            “My supervisor of studies, the guru of history, academician Andrei Sakharov, told me that there are two professional communities, very narrow and very dangerous, which are best avoided. These are male ballet and historians »Medinsky
        2. +3
          22 December 2017 00: 19
          What the fuck are the remains of the Mongoloids?
          only arrowheads and a little saber, and who else thought that these tips were Mongolian, for the Mongols themselves did not know what they had.
      5. +4
        21 December 2017 20: 13
        The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and the Will to freedom, which was not killed, no matter what. Through the Joy of Great Victories, and the bitterness of great losses ... Through hard work during the wars and creative work after the wars ... Through hundreds and thousands of burnt cities and villages, and even more rebuilt ... Through the seas of shed sweat and seas shed both their own and others ’blood ... All this - FOR MANY CENTURIES - AND NO MORE ...! Not for a second fantasizing about its alien origin. without thinking at all, and not even allowing the thought that the descendants would suddenly say that “it wasn’t. All of this fiction happened all by itself, we are great by ourselves, we are from outer space .... We sat with folded legs on our tummy, and everything just happened so simply. We just looked simply and ate popcorn ... "Denying the past, the history of our Great Ancestors, because of our pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -" no, not there was this, this simply could not be .. "by this you do not simply deny your past - YOU DESTROY IT E. You say: THERE WASN'T THESE OUR ANCESTORS, IN A TERRIBLE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY FOR THE AGES OF FORGIVING THE UNFIBERABLE SPIRIT OF THE PEOPLE .... It is with the external, and not in the internal internecine wars and squabbles of the Russian, when the brother goes There is no valor or honor in this internal internecine massacre. It doesn’t add anything to the people, it doesn’t give anything — neither the addition of the power of the Spirit, nor the Will to Victory and Freedom ... and What you know about the victories of the Russian people, about its Spirit and ability to fight for their Earth and their Faith - WHERE IT ALL TAKEN ...? If you believe it - IN THE INTERNAL GRAVE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS, IT IS SHAMNESS TOGETHER WHEN YOURS KILL YOURS ..... Did not think your Great ancestors didn’t guess that their descendants would be able to succumb to these nonsense ... They completely shredded .. All their Great works are worthless .. Not it turned out to be ... In vain they endured 240 years, perished, accumulated strength, gathered their Earth and people in one fist so that at one point they would bring down the Enemy with all their might .... In vain they later repelled the attacks and raids both from the south, from the west, and from the east .... You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia and like in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes. AND ALL LAWS OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT ARE APPLICABLE TO YOU. Applicable and required. AND ONLY THE SEVERE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY TARGING YOU TO WORK OR DESTROY FOR YOUR OWN SURVIVAL FOR AGES HAS MADE YOU SUCH ... Great people. And now you are destroying the memory of these centuries with your own hands ... What can this lead to ...? THE PEOPLE FORGOTTEN HIS HISTORY - DOOMED TO REPEAT IT AGAIN ....
        1. +4
          22 December 2017 00: 37
          Quote: Dzungar
          You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia, as in Africa

          So it’s not scary, but rather about it! Russian word adjective! This belongs to a certain circle of people. GDP called the Russian world, so this is a reference to the Russian world, so Russian German is a familiar term, Russian Georgian! And how many nationalities are there so many Russians, if you want, Russian is imperial, and attribution to the local is narrow nationalism and a desire to sacrifice oneself (do you need examples of victims? Where are the warriors still going)
        2. +4
          22 December 2017 11: 51
          Quote: Dzungar
          The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and not yet killed the Will to Freedom.

          ... and hereinafter.
          Thanks for the good and correct words. hi
          With all the abundance of commentaries, to this, with permission, the "work" of Samsonov, which I simply did not have time to read physically, yours drew attention to yourself. Thanks again.
          I would also like to thank other users who opposed the author of the article and his followers - militant degenerates from history.
      6. 0
        23 December 2017 02: 33
        Well yes. And everyone knows that there were no Hordes and the Russians are not the same. And who suddenly still does not know this - look at the Hollywood film "matrix" - everything is proved and laid out there.
        And especially smart people can familiarize themselves with the work of Comrade Plato, entitled "The Myth of the Cave", there this theme is also described in detail.
      7. +1
        24 December 2017 06: 32
        for all admirers of this muddy article, where not a single historical source is given, and all the “arguments” are taken from the “head”.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY
    2. +9
      21 December 2017 07: 35
      Theoretical historians, and not come up with just a sensation. Practicing historians (working with excavations) have not yet come up with anything new.
      Especially for the author. I like more than the original.
      1. +17
        21 December 2017 08: 01
        Quote: igordok
        Theoretical historians, and not come up with just a sensation. Practicing historians (working with excavations) have not yet come up with anything new.

        Oh Lord, my goodness. Modern and not very modern historians have pondered such a thing that "mother do not grieve." You just try to read at least modern “History” textbooks in different countries of the World. Your opinion about these “specialists” will change greatly. Even if their conclusions regarding the beginning of WWII and WWII are worthwhile, over the course of thirty years I have seen and heard their “analysis” and conclusions that the war was started by JV Stalin, and many are still convinced of this, and even our country. So their opinion for me has not been credible for a long time, but as for the archaeological site, you are clearly wrong in this. The fact is that not historians but archaeologists are engaged in excavations, and the results of their activities have been successfully hidden for centuries. Consider this important point, in this place people often confuse concepts, though not without the help of active assistants in the form of just historians.
    3. +8
      21 December 2017 08: 18
      The Russian compound bow was much more powerful and long-range than the famous English bow.

      - and even the smell from the home is more complicated, "more diverse."
      REMINDS THE ODOR OF THE MOON DUST.
      therefore, the Vatican hid all pieces of lunar soil in secret safes in the United States
    4. +11
      21 December 2017 10: 05
      We must know and remember that the fake of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was launched by Catholic Rome - the then "command post" of the Western community.
      Here is the news then. And why did Rome need this? 90's delirium continues the procession through the pages of books and sites. The author, but what about the Mongolian legends about Temuchin-Genghis Khan? How to reduce the population of Russia? And the archaeological site of the burnt cities? And the statements of the Orthodox Church about the well-deserved punishment in the image of the Mongol-Tatars? What about the battle of Kalka? What about standing on the Ugra River? Tribute to the Crimean, Kazan khans in later times? If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the “struggle for independence” of Russia from the Golden Horde arise figuratively? The wind blew?
      There is only one thing to agree with, and this is confirmed by the continued existence of the Golden Horde. It was not the Mongols who came to Russia, but a horde from many different nations.
      1. +12
        21 December 2017 11: 46
        but nevertheless agree that the Mongol-Tatars sounds like Finno-Jews!
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 11: 56
          Quote: novel xnumx
          but nevertheless agree that the Mongol-Tatars sounds like Finno-Jews!

          I did not deal with the roots of this term, it will be necessary to delve into.
          1. +1
            22 December 2017 00: 25
            not worth it, otherwise you will find out something else that you should not know, how will you live then?
            1. +3
              22 December 2017 09: 58
              regret better about done than not done!
            2. 0
              22 December 2017 10: 36
              Quote: just EXPL
              not worth it, otherwise you will find out something else that you should not know, how will you live then?

              It’s difficult to get knowledge, to make something even more difficult with it. Yes, as well as now, I have already dug up a lot of interesting things from the Slavs and Scandinavians that my articles cause tantrum. and allegations of fantasy. But I don’t give out anything, except for fonts from chronographs.
              1. +5
                22 December 2017 11: 54
                there is such a term - "official history" that is driven in like a nail in the lessons. and if suddenly historical facts contradict this, a cognitive dissonance arises, expressed, in fact, in hysteria wink
                1. 0
                  22 December 2017 12: 35
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  there is such a term - "official history" that is driven in like a nail in the lessons. and if suddenly historical facts contradict this, a cognitive dissonance arises, expressed, in fact, in hysteria wink

                  There is, regularly come across laughing
              2. +2
                22 December 2017 20: 45
                let them hysteria, they rewrote history over the centuries, and they will not immediately return it back either. many years will pass until the harm done by Hitler is forgotten.
                and the rest will drag on for even longer.
                but it’s still necessary to start.
      2. +3
        22 December 2017 00: 17
        Quote: Wend
        If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the “struggle for independence” of Russia from the Golden Horde arise figuratively? The wind blew?

        Literally? As well as the liberation from the Soviet yoke of enslaved peoples!
        1. +1
          22 December 2017 10: 37
          Quote: SpnSr
          Quote: Wend
          If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the “struggle for independence” of Russia from the Golden Horde arise figuratively? The wind blew?

          Literally? As well as the liberation from the Soviet yoke of enslaved peoples!

          Not sure if I understood what you wanted to say.
          1. +3
            22 December 2017 22: 41
            only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
            so is this yoke from the same opera !!!
            1. 0
              25 December 2017 09: 23
              Quote: SpnSr
              only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
              so is this yoke from the same opera !!!

              This is nonsense, but there have been a lot of such writers since the 90's.
              1. +2
                25 December 2017 22: 48
                Quote: Wend
                Quote: SpnSr
                only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
                so is this yoke from the same opera !!!

                This is nonsense, but there have been a lot of such writers since the 90's.

                strange, but today, how is Russia being presented in the West?
                1. +1
                  26 December 2017 10: 31
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  Quote: Wend
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
                  so is this yoke from the same opera !!!

                  This is nonsense, but there have been a lot of such writers since the 90's.

                  strange, but today, how is Russia being presented in the West?
                  Like an occupier. In the United States there is even a holiday, Day of the Nations Occupied by Russia, I may be mistaken in the name, but the meaning is this.
                  1. +2
                    26 December 2017 22: 03
                    Quote: Wend
                    As an occupier

                    So what is it about! And the yoke from the same opera !!!
                    1. 0
                      27 December 2017 10: 41
                      Quote: SpnSr
                      Quote: Wend
                      As an occupier

                      So what is it about! And the yoke from the same opera !!!

                      Not that example.
      3. 0
        23 December 2017 12: 55
        > How is the reduction of the population of Russia? And the archaeological excavations, burned cities?

        But is there a chronology of destruction, a chronology of the appearance of the term Mongol-Tatar invasion, analyzes, materials available on the network, DNA analysis results? If there are no DNA analyzes, all allegations of Mongol conquest are forested.

        For some reason, among the Armenians, some of the princes agreed with the Mongols, and initially became their allies, some were not. the Mongols were quite negotiable for those who wanted to negotiate with them, and apparently for those with whom he himself was not ashamed to negotiatehow did it happen that the princes, who saw that they were inferior to them numerically, could not agree with them right away and waited until they were bent, they would take away their wives, they would slaughter the population, and they would burn the cities, and then they would receive yasaks for power on a regular basis.
        All this is more than strange
        1. 0
          26 December 2017 10: 33
          Quote: xtur
          > How is the reduction of the population of Russia? And the archaeological excavations, burned cities?

          But is there a chronology of destruction, a chronology of the appearance of the term Mongol-Tatar invasion, analyzes, materials available on the network, DNA analysis results? If there are no DNA analyzes, all allegations of Mongol conquest are forested.

          For some reason, among the Armenians, some of the princes agreed with the Mongols, and initially became their allies, some were not. the Mongols were quite negotiable for those who wanted to negotiate with them, and apparently for those with whom he himself was not ashamed to negotiatehow did it happen that the princes, who saw that they were inferior to them numerically, could not agree with them right away and waited until they were bent, they would take away their wives, they would slaughter the population, and they would burn the cities, and then they would receive yasaks for power on a regular basis.
          All this is more than strange

          You are against the Mongol invasion, then you are for. Decide already. And about DNA, this auxiliary discipline for history has appeared recently, so you should not blame everything on these studies.
          1. 0
            27 December 2017 23: 08
            I am interested in the truth - but the fact that we are taught is very difficult compatible with logic. I have not yet met facts that cannot be interpreted differently.

            In many matters, DNA is not an auxiliary thing at all. For example, at one time they introduced the theory of Urartians, which cannot be distinguished from Armenians anthropologically, and by a wonderful coincidence, all the roots of the Urartian language are contained in the Armenian language.
            Would we conduct a DNA analysis of these entities, and make it clear that Urartu is a phantom of anti-Armenian scientists, or is it another zigzag of history
            1. +1
              28 December 2017 09: 17
              Quote: xtur
              I am interested in the truth - but the fact that we are taught is very difficult compatible with logic. I have not yet met facts that cannot be interpreted differently.

              In many matters, DNA is not an auxiliary thing at all. For example, at one time they introduced the theory of Urartians, which cannot be distinguished from Armenians anthropologically, and by a wonderful coincidence, all the roots of the Urartian language are contained in the Armenian language.
              Would we conduct a DNA analysis of these entities, and make it clear that Urartu is a phantom of anti-Armenian scientists, or is it another zigzag of history

              DNA research is gaining momentum, but I think this discipline will not be allowed into historical science. There will be too many shocks, and interestingly, not in the history of Russia, but in the history of Europe. And about Urartu, this is a territorial story. Namely, what is found on the territory of the country is considered to be distant ancestors. And not only Armenians sin this, in Europe this trend has been such a long time. I once asked an Armenian acquaintance, but is there a name Rus or Rus in Armenia? No answer followed. Then I told him that this was the name of the kings of Urartu. The man was very puzzled.
              1. 0
                30 December 2017 12: 23
                > And about Urartu, it's a territorial story.

                no, it's not like that, that's what the Urartian theory is designed for. Meanwhile, the entire religious system of the Urartians is entirely Indo-European - it is reliably established, in addition to cuneiform records, there are an order of magnitude more finds with a different script, alphabetic-syllable, which has not yet been deciphered.
                According to modern scientific concepts, a people and a nation (and these are different political concepts) are determined by religion and the myth system closely related to it - since the Urartian religion is Indo-European, and not Hurrian, the Urartians themselves, regardless of their blood, are like a nation Indo-Europeans, not Hurrians

                As for Rusa, you have encountered either a dishonest or a poorly educated person, what's the point of denying well-known facts.

                From a biological point of view, Armenian genes, that complex of features that are called so, took shape in the middle of the third millennium BC, and since then it has not changed much, so everything on the territory of Armenia is all ours, Armenian.

                And the Armenian genes were found in the Etruscans, among the Minoans, among the Mycenaeans - this is all about the third or second millennium BC

                Speaking of genes, I refer to the data of foreign researchers
    5. +6
      21 December 2017 11: 33
      Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.
      1. +2
        21 December 2017 12: 01
        Quote: BlombiRus
        Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.

        Yes you? Liberal lies telling the truth is funny. Who would not write a chronicle, it was approved by the princes, do you consider them enemies?
        1. +6
          21 December 2017 13: 41
          Quote: Wend
          Quote: BlombiRus
          Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.

          Yes you? Liberal lies telling the truth is funny. Who would not write a chronicle, it was approved by the princes, do you consider them enemies?

          You should understand the difference between the Torah and the Chronicles. For starters, and then have fun.
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 14: 41
            Quote: BlombiRus
            Quote: Wend
            Quote: BlombiRus
            Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.

            Yes you? Liberal lies telling the truth is funny. Who would not write a chronicle, it was approved by the princes, do you consider them enemies?

            You should understand the difference between the Torah and the Chronicles. For starters, and then have fun.

            As they wrote, I understood. You didn’t mention the torus at all, and what does the Jewish script have to do with it? It has no relation in the old Russian chronicles.
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 19: 56
              The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?
              1. +5
                21 December 2017 20: 49
                Quote: BlombiRus
                The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?

                This is your Jewish story - from the Torah. And the Russians have a history from antiquity.
                1. +3
                  22 December 2017 01: 22
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  Quote: BlombiRus
                  The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?

                  This is your Jewish story - from the Torah. And the Russians have a history from antiquity.

                  You yourself are a Jew. We always had CHRONICLES. It was considered not years, but SUMMER! Well dense then that?
                  1. 0
                    22 December 2017 19: 51
                    Quote: BlombiRus
                    Well dense then that?

                    But it’s you who we have “from the Torah”, what are such “summers” in the torus?
              2. 0
                22 December 2017 10: 38
                Quote: BlombiRus
                The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?

                What other story is taken from the Torah?
          2. +5
            21 December 2017 14: 49
            I will stand on the side of the author (really for fun, do not hit hard, sane people) ..
            You see, Pontiffs as representatives of aliens from Alpha Centauri had the opportunity to look into the future, they saw that in the 100500 century AD, the great and powerful Ruses would lead our planet to great happiness, because already in the 100500 century BC they flew into space (that's why Poland is strong and wants to space), had a developed industry and culture! Therefore, in the VIII-XIII centuries, Vatican spies destroyed society, led to the degradation of the culture and science of the Rus, exterminated 99% of the population (populating their lands with vile Franks, Germans, Saxons, etc.) and finished falsifying history just yesterday! And for more than a thousand years, they have been digging into the earth evidence of their pseudo-history, such as elements of everyday life and utensils!
            Joke.... wassat
            1. +3
              21 December 2017 20: 05
              The fabulist Krylov also joked like that. The joker who joked about the Mongols from Mongolia was also a big dreamer.
              1. 0
                22 December 2017 10: 39
                Quote: BlombiRus
                The fabulist Krylov also joked like that. The joker who joked about the Mongols from Mongolia was also a big dreamer.

                Just don’t say it to the Mongols, they’ll laugh. laughing
                1. +2
                  26 December 2017 22: 11
                  laughing I laugh too! laughing especially the name in view of the classification of racial, ethnic nationalities and all that arose at the end of the 18th century and developed throughout the 19th laughing laughing
            2. 0
              23 December 2017 18: 38
              I quote a piece of the article ----- “the word khan comes from“ kokhan, kokhan, “beloved, respected.” ”------ Or maybe from the Jewish Kogan-Kaganate .... That is, they loved the power of the Jews over themselves. ..Favorite-kokhaniy- kokhan-kogan ... Maybe the Jews are the Mongol Tatars. And? What .. They drove them out of the promised land, and they went horde on the ground ... They walked, walked, walked, and came ... laughing And that my version has the right to life am am
    6. +4
      21 December 2017 21: 45
      Fantasy .. Right super science fiction! All Russia is in ruins, China is in ruins! India under the great moguls, Central Asia, in fact, like South Russia ceased to exist for centuries .. Wild field .. Neither the population, nor cities, nor civilization .. One large pasture .. I am delighted with science fiction analysts! Slavic -Rus went from China to Hungary and destroyed everything .... Excellent !!
    7. +2
      22 December 2017 21: 40
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      What can I say .. Better without any comments ..)

      I agree with you 100%. The only sensible comment from all. What can we talk about. If all these historians have talkers online, either from birth, or from mind-blowing propaganda. Not a single gyrus stirred in the Cavo, or due to the lack thereof. Why Peter-1 changed the calendar in Russia. He, just like our Pokémon, both in the government and in the networks, is not something that was striving to the west. And he was torn up by rolling up his sleeves. And the calculus in Russia before him went beyond 6 millennia. Here is one of the arguments for where such a calculus of a clogged illiterate servile country comes from.
    8. +3
      23 December 2017 19: 21
      Zadornovshchina, Fomenkovism and other false systems seem to be taking up, apparently the era of obscurantism and a rollback in the Middle Ages are coming. The official history is based on a scientific approach and on written sources and on written sources, on excavations of archaeological sites, sites, cultures. What the author has no idea. The deeper into the past, the more blurry and weaker the information, and the more difficult it is to understand how it was. according to "Okamma's razor", "One should not multiply things unnecessarily." Everything written by the author, is - bullshit. He especially smiled that the Mongol nomads did not have herds, because you can’t feed the herds in the steppes, what nonsense, at least read Chinese chronicles. China, the Mongols conquered and became the ruling dynasty.
    9. 0
      23 December 2017 22: 15
      Lev Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe: read, study, and the author’s article will not seem unusual to you. In fact, there are not so many primary sources, therefore, only the scientific genius of Gumilyov quite clearly described this time, based on an analysis of the primary sources, climate change, political situation and many other factors. The invasion was not a proven fact, the entire army of the Mongols that came to Russia no more than 30 thousand. This is about one hundred thousand horses, because the Mongol warrior had three horses, combat, marching and pack. It was difficult to feed even such an amount, not to mention the hordes of the Mongols in 300 thousand soldiers declared by German historians who wrote Russian history on order. It was not an invasion, it was a raid. Generally read Gumilyov very interesting.
      1. +1
        28 December 2017 09: 21
        Quote: evgeny68
        Lev Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe: read, study, and the author’s article will not seem unusual to you. In fact, there are not so many primary sources, therefore, only the scientific genius of Gumilyov quite clearly described this time, based on an analysis of the primary sources, climate change, political situation and many other factors. The invasion was not a proven fact, the entire army of the Mongols that came to Russia no more than 30 thousand. This is about one hundred thousand horses, because the Mongol warrior had three horses, combat, marching and pack. It was difficult to feed even such an amount, not to mention the hordes of the Mongols in 300 thousand soldiers declared by German historians who wrote Russian history on order. It was not an invasion, it was a raid. Generally read Gumilyov very interesting.

        Gumilev is still a dreamer. He wrote the greatest anthem of the Jewish nation in a book about the Khazar Kaganate, and then wrote that no archaeological evidence of the presence of Jews in the Khazar Kaganate was found.
  2. +7
    21 December 2017 05: 59
    If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?
    1. +10
      21 December 2017 06: 13
      How with whom! With evil Russians! wassat Read the article carefully .. I just do not quite understand how the Horde could get there ... They barely harnessed to Smolensk, where they got it in tinsel from the squad of Mercury. By the way, he is recognized as a saint ..
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?
      1. +12
        21 December 2017 09: 40
        First, mercury was Czech and indirectly related to Russians (he served as a mercenary in the squad of the Smolensk prince). Secondly, the horde did not go to Smolensk, just as it did not go to Pskov and Novgorod due to the impassable terrain when approaching Smolensk from the south of Bryansk. To Smolensk (20 km from the city) approached a small reconnaissance detachment of the Horde which was destroyed by a squad led? or with the participation of Mercury. At the same time, Mercury himself died (apparently was wounded in the head and died of wounds). Church legend says that he returned to the city with a truncated head. The Tatar-Mongols reached almost Vienna and retreated only in connection with the death of Genghis Khan. And so they drove Europe very successfully, and there is written evidence of this. And no one identifies them with the Russians there .. And the "great power Rurikovich" at the beginning of the arrival of the Mongols was a miserable sight of the biting princes among themselves, who did not disdain to invite Polovtsy, Poles and others to attack the neighboring Russian principalities " guests. " Similar articles should be immediately transferred to the section of fairy tales and fentozy.
        1. +2
          22 December 2017 00: 27
          Wow . the Mongols reached Vienna, but the road prevented them from Novgorod;
          By the way, do not tell me, and what kind of wheels stood on the horses of that period that in the spring they could not move on the roads?
      2. 0
        21 December 2017 20: 24
        But Batu’s troops didn’t feel defeat from some Mercury, although I can admit that they could have cut out some kind of watchdog.
    2. +14
      21 December 2017 06: 41
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom then Germans and other Czechs fought in the XNUMXth century?

      Here's a catch: in those years the XNUMXth century there were no Germans or Czechs in sight, the future "Germans" spoke excellent Russian, and there was Bohemia in the Czech Republic, but such trifles, unfortunately, are now few people are interested, but sorry.
      1. +10
        21 December 2017 07: 23
        Quote: venaya
        "Germans"

        The word "Germans" is purely Russian, the root word is "dumb". hi
        1. +6
          21 December 2017 07: 43
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The word "Germans" is purely Russian, the root word is "dumb".

          Of course, our word, it was just that in those days in that part of Russia, everyone spoke old-fashioned Russian, after the prohibition of which the Slovenian Rus turned into a non-verb Russ, or otherwise simplified by the Germans. Only such people back in the XNUMXth century were not enough, the modern German language had not yet been invented, the Templars under the leadership of Protestant Martin Luther did this. He then translated the Bible but the language they newly created, after which full-fledged "Germans" appeared, that is, Germanized Russians.
          1. +5
            21 December 2017 10: 12
            Quote: venaya
            modern German language did not yet have time to invent
            Moreover - they still continue to invent. The debate over Schroeder's reform is still ongoing. Someone refuses, someone has already accepted, someone has accepted but soon refused. Official documents, even within the same land, can be written in both the new and the old. Therefore, a single German is still nothing more than a myth. But nonetheless
            Quote: venaya
            the Templars under the leadership of Protestant Martin Luther took up this task. He then translated the Bible but the language they newly created
            The role of Luther, who did by the way not
            Quote: venaya
            then
            , and in 1521 and 1534, the creation of a standard New German is greatly exaggerated. He did not create anything. Norms Neuhochdeutsch were in the course of the century 2 more before his translations. Remember Fruhneuhochdeutsch. Another thing Martin's popularizing activity is yes.
            And about
            Quote: venaya
            Rus-Slovenia turned into Rus-non-verb, or otherwise simplified Germans
            it's generally some kind of game!
      2. +9
        21 December 2017 08: 20
        Quote: venaya
        Here's a catch: in those years, the XNUMXth century there were no Germans or Czechs in sight,

        Chekhov was not mentioned ?????
        In the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries, the power of the Przemysłowicz dynasty was strengthened over the Czech tribe, who for several centuries struggled with the Slavnikovich clan from the Zlichan tribe, as well as the Vrshovs from the Luchan tribe. In the end, the Przemysłowicz gathered all the neighboring Czech tribes under their rule and formed a single Principality of the Czech Republic.
      3. +13
        21 December 2017 09: 44
        Damn the Czechs and the Germans did not know that they were not there and had already been established by the time of Prague and Vienna universities, so that later their descendants would not carry such pozriotic nonsense as in your post.
        1. +3
          25 December 2017 13: 11
          Here is the Catalan atlas. The oldest card that has survived to the present in the original. It dates back to 1375. AD, of course. More precisely, not the entire Atlas, but part of it - central and eastern Europe.

          Can you show the Czech Republic?
          1. 0
            29 December 2017 18: 23
            Before putting the map, it would be nice to rotate it correctly, and so you have it upside down. Prague - in the 14th century under Emperor Charles IV, when it became the capital of the Great Roman Empire. But this is unknown to a person who does not know anything in the history of Europe. Therefore, you are looking for the Czech Republic on a map of the 14th century. Apparently further, "Zhmerynka" you have never been. So before posting bullshit, read the story.
        2. +2
          27 December 2017 21: 50
          Quote: anderson
          Damn the Czechs and the Germans did not know that they were not there and had already been established by the time of Prague and Vienna universities, so that later their descendants would not carry such pozriotic nonsense as in your post.

          Well, in the territories of the former Soviet republics, cities and factories were also not built by local residents!
          1. +1
            28 December 2017 09: 45
            Universities opened, of which in Russia there was not yet another 500 years. Guilds flourished in the cities of which, subsequently, Russia hired specialists from doctors to cannon craftsmen and architects. It is not necessary to drag Russians by their ears where they were not and could not be. You are aware that in the archaeological finds of the 8-10th century throughout the territory of ancient Russia, not a single sword is known made by the tribes living in this territory. How can some highly developed culture not leave its material traces (especially in terms of weapons)? No need to look for the greatness of the Russian people in ancient times, it is not there. The greatness of the Russian people lies in the fact that they were able to preserve and conquer vast territories and then in several jerks under tremendous exertion of forces under Ivan the Terrible, Peter 1, Catherine 2, and the Bolsheviks (mainly under Stalin), with wild resistance to the West and internal shocks caught up and in places and surpassed Western civilization. Achievements of the Russian people do not need to add any fiction to them, they are fantastic without it.
            1. 0
              28 December 2017 18: 05
              I’m telling them about this ....
              1. +1
                29 December 2017 09: 49
                The ravings themselves about the “super ancient” Russians are not interesting because they are easily broken by archeology and other historical sources. Interest is caused by those who throw this nonsense. This is not just children's fairy tales, it is an attempt to pour into the ears of those who do not seriously study history, but only a heap of garbage soars on the Internet instead of the history of their country. The reception has already been tested on topics related to other periods of history (in the above privacy of the Second World War). The goal is to spoil our history in any way. And when these "wise men" are put in place in one forum, they wander to the other and look for free ears there .. Therefore, everyone who cares about the history of their country, and therefore its future should be serious about this shusher (including moderators) and if someone decided to tweet such a pseudo-historical article on the forum, then you should ask the author for a list of sources on which he relies when he writes this nonsense. And without references to sources, publishing such topics and discussing them is pointless ..
                1. +2
                  29 December 2017 18: 22
                  Quote: anderson
                  The ravings themselves about the "super ancient" Russ are uninteresting

                  In what place are they ravings? Interestingly, it turns out that everyone has ancient ancestors and only Russians arose from the air! Have they arrived from Alpha Centauri? Why can't Russians have ancient ancestors?
                  Quote: anderson
                  any way to spoil our history

                  Under the tsars, the Germans spoiled Russian history for three hundred years - by the way, what you believe is a censored story.
      4. +7
        21 December 2017 12: 34
        I will note to you that you and others like you are completely original. There was such a Platon Lukashevich at the time of it, also everywhere the Slavs imagined him. So you are not the pioneers in the land of twilight consciousness.
    3. +12
      21 December 2017 08: 10
      This is all written in the annals by English spies to annoy the superethnos!
      1. +11
        21 December 2017 08: 21
        Quote: kalibr
        This is all written in the annals by English spies to annoy the superethnos!

        For any Anglo-Saxons again to blame laughing
    4. +5
      21 December 2017 10: 44
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?

      Who fought with? You do not know with whom A. Nevsky fought on Lake Peipsi? laughing
      1. +2
        21 December 2017 19: 16
        Quote: Boris55
        Who fought with? You do not know with whom A. Nevsky fought on Lake Peipsi?

        With the Livonian Order, of course, and on the territory of the Order itself! laughing Someone, along with a lake of the same name (surprise!) Was a vassal of the Order, and Alexander Yaroslavich, later nicknamed for intolerance, Nevsky came to restore justice there, to rob. For feudalism, the Middle Ages, cho! Now, for example, you are restoring justice, and then, looking, you’re already robbing, you’re burning neighboring villages, depriving, so to speak, the adversary of the feed base ... And at the same time (which is wonderful) you are undoubtedly in your right! Vopchem: Forgive us Livonians! laughing And you, is it about something else?
        1. +1
          22 December 2017 06: 05
          Someone, along with a lake of the same name (surprise!) Was a vassal of the Order

          Oooo, this chud !!!!
    5. +9
      21 December 2017 11: 52
      on their monuments, these Mongols are strikingly similar to Russians
    6. +2
      26 December 2017 22: 21
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?

      With whom the whole type of civilized world is still fighting ...
    7. reg
      +2
      28 December 2017 10: 23
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?

      With tartars. Which the Greeks called "Mughals." Which meant "long, tall."
      Long, it doesn't look very much like the Mongols, right?
  3. +8
    21 December 2017 05: 59
    I would say that there was something of a modern confederation, and the Russian princes to the rulers of Sarai paid tribute and received labels to reign, but this was on a voluntary basis and in the framework of the feudal relations of that time! Naturally there were military clashes, and there was the ruin of Kiev and the Battle of Kulikovo, and the great standing on the Ugra River, but this is solely due to constantly arising and growing contradictions within the confederation! In the end, the Russian princes decided "reign yourself and rule everything", that is, they moved to a higher level of state thinking, unlike the second half of the "Tatar-Mongol"!
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 16: 33
      Quote: Finches
      I would say that there was something of a modern confederation

      This is called vassality. And the phenomenon for the Middle Ages is standard and widespread - for feudalism.
  4. +20
    21 December 2017 06: 05
    And Samarkand and Bukhara did not take? And Khorezm Shah himself escaped to an island in the Caspian Sea? And there was no Kalki? And the evil city did not take?

    With all the legends of many events, and the debatability of many issues - for example, about the size of the troops, and the number of horses, any event leaves a mark in the world.

    This is our story. And you can not turn into Ivanov, not remembering kinship.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 08: 23
      maybe there are annals in China and Central Asia? (not under the "Vatican control"
      lower the blackboard to the baseboard.
      THE REASON FOR THE INVASION IS THE SILK WAY. HIGH TARIFFS OF CUSTOMS OF RUSSIAN PRINTS (everyone pulled on themselves and it was not profitable, they bought an army on a trip to Russia) DID NOT INSTALL MANUFACTURERS --- CHINA AND ASIA (AND USERS --- ZAP EUROPE)
      1. 0
        21 December 2017 18: 07
        Is Rashid al-Din considered? Chan chun?
        1. +3
          22 December 2017 17: 00
          He is a Muslim, isn't he?
          And can you give an example of even a certain Muslim writer of the “time” or later, who instead of counting the time according to the Hijra decided to suddenly use the Chinese calendar for dating, and he also started the heading “It was a year Pigs".
          Yes, any Muslim cuts off his hand, which brought this phrase.
    2. +4
      21 December 2017 08: 44
      Quote from Korsar4
      And Samarkand and Bukhara did not take? And Khorezm Shah himself escaped to an island in the Caspian Sea? And there was no Kalki? And the evil city did not take?

      Based on the logic of the author, it is not the Mongols who conquered the floor of the world, but the Russians.
      1. +5
        21 December 2017 17: 49
        Quote: RUSS
        Based on the logic of the author, it is not the Mongols who conquered the floor of the world, but the Russians.

        And you need to read the book of the Catholic priest Mavro Orbini "Slavic kingdom"- The first was published in 1601. in Italy ... for me, it does not add up with the fact, the fact of the Tatar-Mongol yoke. It was not in vain that the Catholic Church classified it as forbidden !!!
    3. +4
      21 December 2017 16: 35
      Quote from Korsar4
      This is our story. And you can not turn into Ivanov, not remembering kinship.

      You can not.
      But with the Tatar-Mongol invasion, the story is really muddy ...
    4. 0
      22 December 2017 00: 29
      so you are just one of such Ivanovs that you are ready to consider the aliens enemies of your blood brothers, and support the Judas who betrayed their family in those days.
  5. +16
    21 December 2017 06: 21
    article on the verge of fiction, surprised that the author is not Fomenko. although ... the material on the basis of which the author draws brilliant conclusions about
    No Mongols from Mongolia to Russia never reached
    not specified.
    SW Samsonov Alexander, please kindly cite sources, but on the basis of which you make such loud statements. I personally doubt their reliability, not bias (including the lack of excessive Slavophilism / cheers of patriotism) and much more.
    Threat "sources" from the category of "everyone knows", please do not specify, because some time ago everyone knew that the earth was flat, etc.
    1. +12
      21 December 2017 07: 14
      The entire official history of the Middle Ages and previously-sucked from the finger! It is not known what is based on. It should be taken as an artistic fiction.
    2. +3
      22 December 2017 00: 31
      take linguistics as a model, then find the names of Siberian and Ural rivers and toponyms and look for the same in India, when you see how many matches there are.
      but I think that you will say that it was Fomenko who flew by a time machine in those days and named those rivers and lands so that you would be put in an uncomfortable position.
    3. 0
      24 December 2017 06: 33
      an interesting video came out VERY in the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY
    4. +2
      25 December 2017 08: 34
      Threat "sources" from the category of "everyone knows", please do not specify, because some time ago everyone knew that the earth was flat, etc.

      An interesting statement of the question. Prove from sources that what was not there really wasn’t. From the series: "And you prove that there is no God." hi
      1. 0
        25 December 2017 08: 55
        Quote: Seal
        An interesting statement of the question. Prove from sources that what was not there really wasn’t. From the series: "And you prove that there is no God."

        you confuse "I know because I know" and "I know because I read it in a document written by a contemporary / relatively recently of those events, the information from which was confirmed from several other sources (not directly related to the first), it is very desirable same time. "
        and yes, the question is interesting - "facts from the head" is not acceptable. and then the people read all sorts of Fomenko, and then also Zadornov (rest in peace for him) and begins to bear nonsense.
  6. +15
    21 December 2017 06: 24
    This information, in view of its complete discrepancy with official history, is perceived, of course, with skepticism. But knowing the fact of the complete overthrow of the same story during the time of Catherine ll and the complete disagreement of some things, such as (the author correctly pointed out) the absence of Mongolian words in Russian ( on the topic), sending loopholes in some sections of the Great Wall of China to the interior of China and finding archaeological finds under this very wall belonging to the Rus (according to anthropological analysis), etc., then the article is not completely mistrust binds.
    1. +12
      21 December 2017 06: 37
      Kaftan, sundress, damask steel, warrior and so on - are not suitable?

      Once before a business trip to the East I bought a phrase book: I immediately realized that the words hazelnut, sujuk and chest are familiar.

      Of course, let philologists correct.
      1. +12
        21 December 2017 07: 15
        Quote from Korsar4
        Kaftan, sundress, damask steel, warrior and so on - are not suitable?

        Kaftan, sheepskin coat, sundress, money, watermelon, ram, pit, coachman, label, Cossack, guard, nomad, treasury, treasurer, tamga (where the customs come from), profit, landlord, grub, brick, tin, shack, earring, diamond, emerald, drinks-braga, buza, shoe, cap, veil, stocking, satin, calico, calico, braid, barrow, scarlet, badger, busurman, brown, dog, head .... etc ....
      2. +3
        21 December 2017 07: 16
        Philologists, oddly enough, base their research on the official, deceitful, chronology. So, I would not trust these "chests!" :-)
        1. +11
          21 December 2017 09: 46
          So Masons and flat Earth on elephants hide, nothing surprising laughing
          By the way, I understood why the great Hyperborea disappeared:
          the ancient Urus-Mughal-Tatar-Arians took over the whole world, and when they brought the trophies home, the Earth outweighed, leaned over, and all good, together with Hyperborea, rolled off the disk and fell. Here. laughing
          1. +5
            21 December 2017 09: 50
            So Masons and flat Earth on elephants hide, nothing surprising

          2. +4
            21 December 2017 19: 25
            Quote: forty-eighth
            Ancient Uruso-Mughal-Tatar-Aryans

            Ahhhhh !!! You made my evening !!!
    2. +15
      21 December 2017 06: 47
      friendly Mongolian Hurray! aftore !!! burn on
      1. +1
        21 December 2017 19: 40
        The author has an aphorism: “First they laugh at you, then they hate, then they fight, and only then (if your concept has passed all the tests) comes success.”
      2. +3
        22 December 2017 16: 52
        The English, using this cry since at least the 15th century, are aware that it is "Mongolian"?
        Hooray !!! I am ready to agree that we adopted this battle cry from the British, many of whom began to be hired by officers in our army after the execution of the English king Charles I.
      3. +1
        23 December 2017 08: 32
        URAGSHA - in Buryat and Mongolian - FORWARD. Emphasis on A ... When pronouncing, only URA is clearly audible .... I tell you how Buryat-Mongol and Oirat-Mongol
        1. +2
          25 December 2017 08: 44
          Yes, who would doubt it. There is only one question - when did this word enter the Buryat and Mongolian languages?
          Who took over from whom? Whether we were from the Mongols (Buryats, Dzungars, Oirats) or they took our military cry from us, which, in turn, we borrowed from the British and gave him our (and correct) interpretation - "Forward". Since we saw and heard that it was with this cry that our troops (including the Cossacks), who in Asia put cancer of everyone, including the hitherto invincible Chinese, go ahead.
          There is a good example in history of such borrowing.
          An interesting incident occurred in early May 1868 during the Turkestan campaign of the Russian army. The four-thousandth detachment of General Kaufman at the approaches to Samarkand entered the battle with the sixty-thousandth army of the Bukhara emir Muzaffar. During the battle, General Golovachev’s infantry, right in front of the enemy’s chest, crossed the Zerafshan River in the water and in a bold bayonet attack occupied the height of Chapan-Ata. The emir’s army fled, but the Samarkand closed the gates before the fleeing and surrendered to the Russians.
          Russian soldiers, crossing the river, immediately went into battle. But the boots of the soldiers were full of water, and there was no time to take off shoes and pour water. Then the soldiers quickly stood in their arms, while the comrades shook their legs.
          Seeing this, the Bukhara people decided that they had guessed the secret of the Russians. A month later, in the battle of Zarabulak, the front ranks of the “negligents”, coming up to the gunshot, stood in their arms, and the rear ranks shook their comrades in good faith with their legs. Upon completion of this rite, none of them doubted victory.
          If the Samarkandians did this, who, according to the official version of the story, on civilizational steps are slightly higher than the Mongols and Buryats, it is not surprising that the Mongols and Buryats borrowed our battle cry from us. I believe that if they (the Mongols and Buryats) saw what the Samarkandians saw - now the Mongols (Buryats, Oirats, Dzungars, etc.) would have their "ancient national custom" before shaking each other's feet. laughing
          And this "ancient national custom" would have the corresponding name. hi
          1. 0
            3 January 2018 10: 33
            The word Hurray in Russian DOESN'T MEAN FORWARD, it is shouted sometimes just standing still and not going to move anywhere .... Although you are a Jew, you should know that. But this is "... among the Mongols (Buryats, Oirats, Dzungars, and so on) .." VERY CORRECT. And then here some illiterate people still don’t understand that MONGOLS ARE MONGOLS BURYATS AND KALMYKS (OIRATES) ... You are making progress
    3. +5
      21 December 2017 06: 47
      I would give you some Mongolian words in Russian, but, I’m afraid, for censorship reasons, they should not be given here ...
      1. +5
        21 December 2017 10: 21
        These popular words (I also use them occasionally fellow )
        the Mongols are believed to have seized from the Chinese they had conquered before.
        There has been a cultural exchange since ancient times. drinks
        1. +2
          22 December 2017 03: 01
          Quote: voyaka uh
          These popular words (I also use them occasionally)
          the Mongols are believed to have seized from the Chinese they had conquered before.
          There has been a cultural exchange since ancient times.

          Only for some reason, these words are found on birch bark letters of the pre-Mongol period ...
          1. +2
            22 December 2017 11: 21
            Please show photos of letters.
    4. +14
      21 December 2017 07: 15
      Quote: Alone
      somehow (the author correctly pointed out) the absence of Mongolian words in Russian

      what One thing I can say, you do not know Russian well!
      Sword from Mongolian Mes
      Outback from the Mongolian Zah ulus
      Bogatyr from Mongolian bagatura
      Cheers from Mongolian Urai
      Cart from the Mongolian Telegen
      Crest from the Mongolian Gokhyol (big greetings to Great Ukrainians)
      1. +17
        21 December 2017 07: 30
        Quote: Serg65
        Bogatyr from Mongolian bagatura

        Are you sure it's not the other way around? After all, the word BOGATYR comes from two words - GOD and MOVEMENT. Bearing God.
        Cheers from Mongolian Urai
        U Ra - an ancient Slavic war cry, meaning proximity to the sun God Ra.
        Enrages that all the "official" historians believe that the introduction of words went only in one direction. It is to what extent you need not to love your people? hi
        1. +15
          21 December 2017 07: 45
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Are you sure it's not the other way around? After all, the word BOGATYR comes from two words - GOD and MOVEMENT. Bearing God.

          And why is the story from Samsonov better than philology from Zadornov?))
          1. +11
            21 December 2017 07: 46
            Quote: baudolino
            And why is the story from Samsonov better than philology from Zadornov?))

            And what is NOT RIGHT Zadornov? wink Or do you think that our ancestors went to death with a Mongol call?
        2. +13
          21 December 2017 08: 36
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          U Ra - an ancient Slavic war cry, meaning proximity to the sun God Ra.

          Well maybe God Ra, God Ra ??? Ahh, yes, yes, yes, Ukrainians, the pyramids, Ra .... for sure !!!!!!!
          The god of the sun among the Slavs Khors!
          Moreover, the Turkic words Urge i.e. beat, Uraksha, Urakh means forward!
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          It is to what extent you need not to love your people?

          laughing Well, yes, much more interesting is the legend about the diggers of the seas!
          My dear Ingvar, let’s say Catherine rewrote the history of Russia and inscribed the myth of the “Yoke”, then what should I say, what happened from the middle of the 13th century to “Standing on the Ugra” ??? What was it?
          1. +4
            21 December 2017 11: 57
            And why do you think Mongolian words are primary, most likely secondary!
          2. +3
            21 December 2017 21: 33
            Quote: Serg65
            The god of the sun among the Slavs Khors!

            The island of Khortitsa on the Dnieper is fundamentally the name of God Horse.
            And my dear Mongolophile - what does the historical fact of standing in the Ugra have to do with it? belay
            PS WHAT'S NOT THE LAW OF ZADADNO ?????
            1. +1
              22 December 2017 05: 41
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              P.S. WHAT'S NOT THE LAW OF ZADADNO ?????

              in that he parses Slavic and Old Russian words in terms of modern language. video in the topic:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIbCXyfS5PE
              in terms of impartiality: I can largely disagree with Zhukov, BUT! he is real historian!. but not novelist! Zadornov or mathematician! Fomenko.
              1. +3
                25 December 2017 08: 52
                Who real historians ?
                Modern chronology was created by:
                1) Denis Peto (Petavius).
                2) Scaliger
                3) Isaac Cazobon
                4) Set of Calvisions

                Which of them was a historian?
                Or maybe historians were Gisel, Lomonosov, Tatishchev or Karamzin?

                None of the founders of the now accepted chronology and the official version of history had a historical education.
                And this in my opinion does not bother you at all.

                In the order of educational program. Scaliger and Casabon were philologists, Calvisius a musician, and Petavius ​​a theologian.
            2. +5
              22 December 2017 06: 52
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              my dear mongolofil

              laughing You will be surprised, but I'm Russophile to the bone! And at the same time I really do not like it when they try to rewrite the history of my Motherland and my people for the sake of the new situation!
        3. +10
          21 December 2017 09: 33
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          U Ra - an ancient Slavic war cry, meaning proximity to the sun God Ra.

          Voooooooooooot! Finally, revelation came upon me. These ancient Uruso-Mughal arias gave rise to human civilization in North Africa, built pyramids and worshiped the god Ra. Everything fell into place laughing
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 21: 54
            Quote: forty-eighth
            Finally, revelation came upon me. These ancient Uruso-Mughal arias gave rise to human civilization in North Africa,

            No, your ancestors climbed trees, and delved into ........ Where you continue to dig. To each his own.wink
          2. +3
            21 December 2017 22: 31
            Quote: forty-eighth
            These ancient Uruso-Mughal arias gave rise to human civilization in North Africa

            There is another, more believable version of the origin of man that has nothing to do with Africa.
        4. +4
          21 December 2017 12: 37
          Can you tell me in which Slavic tribe the Egyptian god Amon Ra was worshiped? Where can I read about this?)))
        5. +7
          21 December 2017 19: 35
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          After all, the word BOGATYR comes from two words - GOD and MOVEMENT. Bearing God.

          Inspired by:
          Natasha Rostova: "They stole - it means they stole it from the Tiber."
          Lieutenant Rzhevsky: "Excuse me, Natasha, but didn’t this happen in Pisa, with Caesar?" laughing
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 21: 17
            Gyyyyy ...! Rzhu .....!
          2. +3
            21 December 2017 21: 41
            Quote: HanTengri
            Inspired by:
            Natasha Rostova: "They stole - it means they stole it from the Tiber."

            I will send you to the catechism. The principle of vulgarization of the arguments of the interlocutor is just from there.
            Shalom, the Orthodox! wink
            1. +2
              21 December 2017 22: 53
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              I will send you to the catechism.

              Let me, in gratitude, also send you somewhere: https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_bibliote
              ka / 430720 / O_professionalnoy_i_lyubitelskoy_lingvi
              stick

              Hopefully feel better.
              1. +3
                21 December 2017 23: 16
                Quote: HanTengri
                Hopefully feel better

                Well ... they insulted the aria ... and he tried so hard so hard ... now he’s either gone to the Tiber ... or to. Where the lieutenant sends everyone ... laughing
                1. +3
                  22 December 2017 00: 19
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  now he’s either gone to the Tiber ... or to .nu where the lieutenant sends everyone there ...

                  Well then, am I a monster or something ?! I, only, sent him to academician A. Zalinyak, to understand "Professional and amateur linguistics." lol
            2. +4
              22 December 2017 06: 59
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              The principle of vulgarization of the arguments of the interlocutor

              what
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              your ancestors climbed trees, and delved into ......

              Ingvar, you probably look at yourself in the mirror every morning and you can’t get enough of it?
              1. +1
                22 December 2017 08: 03
                Quote: Serg65
                Ingvar, you probably look at yourself in the mirror every morning and you can’t get enough

                Are you spying on me from the other side of the mirror? am
        6. +1
          26 December 2017 23: 51
          God-bug can be translated as power-luck, later importance, atta - create-do, ar - man. This is a common Aryan, later divided into languages. Bagatar, a man-aryan having-able. In different dialects, rich man, bagaturia, derivatives of bator, batyr.
          Wealthy because of wealth. A-vocalization was pursued by Yoke.
          Hurray - Turkic cry, Russians spoke arra or harra. Igo continues.
      2. +6
        21 December 2017 09: 56
        In principle, you are right. There are many words. And the Slovenians went to the enemies with a Mongol cry, and there are no borrowing from other languages ​​at all. And before the adoption of Orthodoxy, they only climbed pine trees, and "letters" were brought to us by Cyril and Mythodius, before that letters were written without knowing quite ...
        1. +9
          21 December 2017 10: 23
          Quote: Alone
          In principle, you are right. There are many words

          Man, they come up with a new story and rewrite the old exclusively young nations, which in fact have no history! History of Russia totals Millennium!!!! Therefore, if you want to bring your Wishlist to life, then we need iron arguments, and not exhaustion from the finger!
          1. +7
            21 December 2017 11: 58
            and you, by chance, are not a descendant of the Mongols, are you really worried about them? tongue or like Shevchuk -: I’m a Tatar in person, but with the surname Khokhlyatskaya "? tongue tongue laughing
            1. +9
              21 December 2017 12: 03
              Quote: novel xnumx
              and you, by chance, are not a descendant of the Mongols, are you really worried about them?

              Yes, no Roma, I am a descendant of the hodgepodge Russian and you know .... proud of it tongue
              I just don’t like it when they want to give out their fantasies as truth wink
              1. +7
                21 December 2017 12: 06
                Mongol-Tatars = Finno-Jews = aglo-Zulus .. etc.
                1. +8
                  21 December 2017 12: 08
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  Mongol-Tatars = Finno-Jews = aglo-Zulus .. etc.

                  recourse No, all the same 150 - this is normal, no longer worth it! stop
                  1. +6
                    21 December 2017 12: 10
                    little that harm, so also greedy! tongue
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          2. +1
            26 December 2017 23: 53
            The history of the people, not Russia. Borders and name are recent.
      3. +2
        22 December 2017 03: 04
        Quote: Serg65
        Sword from Mongolian Mes

        And why not from the Gothic mekeis?
        1. +6
          22 December 2017 10: 00
          I’m embarrassed to ask, what was the name of the sword before the Mongol-Tatars? poker chtoli?
    5. +5
      21 December 2017 09: 48
      Please provide sources of your pearls. Especially about the direction of the loopholes in the wall ..
      1. +6
        21 December 2017 10: 22
        Quote: anderson
        Please provide sources of your pearls. Especially about the direction of the loopholes in the wall ..

        Look at photos of some sections of the Chinese Wall. If you are too lazy, I don’t work at the information office.
        1. +3
          21 December 2017 11: 48
          And in the photographs there are no signs East-West and North-South. No! So wherever they look, they look where they should. Who needs - that's the question!
          1. Net
            +2
            22 December 2017 18: 26
            There is a pointer - the sun and the shadow of the towers. Hence the direction of the loopholes in them - to the South, protection from the Chinese
    6. +6
      21 December 2017 09: 50
      Oh yes, dear colleagues, I was wrong. We have more than enough Mongolian words. And we don’t have any words from Latin, German, Greek, etc. I’m silent about names ... Ivan, Marya, etc. .d. purely "Russian" names. In general, we were all captured. And all for hundreds of years. And look at the last in the mirror, all truly Mongols !!! Or, when capturing Russian cities, according to official history, the Mongols did not touch Russian women, due to their tolerance ?
      1. +1
        21 December 2017 18: 11
        Is the city of Kasimov considered? This is not to go very far.
      2. +1
        21 December 2017 21: 30
        And you do not take into account the reverse process of the 16-19 centuries, when there was an expansion of Slavic genes into the former territory of the Golden Horde?
      3. +1
        26 December 2017 23: 59
        The confrontation of the A-beginning and I-beginning, An-In, after the Negro-Lunits. began to spread predation. On the territory of the North was Peace and the principles of enlightenment to the Jewish Iga.
        Southerners' rats will devour the majority, do not count on "your own", 144 thousand will remain.
    7. +5
      21 December 2017 11: 12
      the time of the beginning of the construction of the wall falls on the time of fragmentation in China (the time of the warring kingdoms), similar to ours, the mass of the principalities are fighting each other, building defenses. Only since the unification of the country under the leadership of Qin Shi Huangdi in the middle of the 3rd century BC order is being put in place, the centralized construction of defensive structures called the Great Wall of China includes fragments of structures erected earlier. This is how the issue with loopholes is simply solved. You should not multiply things unnecessarily ...
      1. Net
        +2
        22 December 2017 18: 36
        Do not write Chinese nonsense about the wall!
        According to the official version, it was built by Qin Shi-huangdi, the founder of the Qin empire, which existed only 13 years (!) (221-207 BC) [Great Soviet Encyclopedia. M .: Soviet Encyclopedia, T. 12. P. 208.]. The wall extends 1000 kilometers north of the empire’s border, along the territory of several 6000 kilometers long hostile to the Chinese. Feeling delusional allegations, the official version has changed - now tourists on the wall are convinced that the Chinese built it, supposedly to protect it from Genghis Khan. Between the Chinese microscopic (in those days) state of South Sun and the Mongols was the Golden Empire of bugs (chjurjen, nyurgen). And Genghis Khan defeated this empire only in 1211. Recall that the great “Chinese” wall is located on the territory of the Golden Empire a thousand (!) Kilometers north of the border of the Chinese state. The empire revived and only in 1234 and 1290-1310 did the Chinese manage to finish off the weakened buzz empire. And then totally destroy the tribe of bugs (or expel), like other peoples occupied by them (Khitan, Uighurs, Dzhungars - Kalmyks, etc.).
  7. +12
    21 December 2017 06: 36
    However, the empire of Genghis Khan did not die. Northern civilization, as it was more than once in the past, took a new form. The control center shifted from the Horde to Moscow. There was a merger of European and Scythian-Siberian Rus. This made Russia a continental empire, from ocean to ocean. And Russia again challenged the masters of the West. The Big Game continues.


    "Your works are wonderful, Lord."
  8. +25
    21 December 2017 06: 43
    uh ... the author had the pick-up thing ... I want to repeat the proposal for the millionth time, Dear Administration, add the section "The Most Unbelievable Theories" or something like where anyone would write an alternative story and their speculation ..
    Regarding the article, evidence can be found, evidence, arguments other than "the Mongoloids are too backward for such a campaign." This is at least racism. Among the examples cited is the campaign of Alexander the Great (Great) and the supposedly demographic indicators of Macedonia ... According to historians, the most optimistic figure with which Alexander went to Persia is 40000 people (and some historians believe that it is even smaller), and this is a collection of troops from ALL Greece , not only from Macedonia! And in the best cases, 20-25 thousand of them were phalangists (Hoplites, whatever you want). So talking about the huge demographic potential of Macedonia to conquest is at least silly! Everything hinders a bad dancer ... There are examples in history when a handful of people, well-trained, harmonious and motivated, achieved the impossible according to your criteria .. Take Caesar’s Egyptian campaign, he had less legion at the beginning of the siege!
    In general, since there is no (for now I hope) section for an alternative and other theories, write then at the beginning of the article or in the title that it is a theory, an alternative story or something else, because people should know their heroes))
    1. +16
      21 December 2017 07: 20
      Quote: parma
      uh ... the author had the picky thing ... I want to repeat the proposal for the millionth time, Dear Administration, add the section "The most incredible theories"

      I agree!! It is especially "killing" that the articles of the science fiction writer Samsonov go out under the heading "History". Maybe George Martin’s laurels do not give him peace, who wrote Games of Thrones? laughing
      1. +16
        21 December 2017 10: 19
        This is another matter. Somewhere at the turn of the 80's - 90's (I don't remember exactly) the President of the Russian Academy of Sciences gave an interesting interview. The journalist asked him if the expanding academies (military sciences, information sciences, cosmography, etc., which are public organizations by status) are annoying him. The President of the Russian Academy of Sciences replied that he was glad of this, since before the RAS, not quite normal people were getting out, and now they are swarming around in their own academies.
        So is Samsonov Alexander. In a decent scientific publication it will not be allowed to go further than the threshold, and there is so much scope for creativity and publications in VO. Let it publish and not interfere with smart people, but we have the opportunity to laugh.
        When the kids have worms, they scratch their ass for pleasure. So Alexander Samsonov - combed (though often something), published and enjoyed.
        1. +6
          21 December 2017 12: 45
          Bravo, bravo, CSKA 2, thunderous applause, turning into a standing ovation !!!
          1. +5
            21 December 2017 15: 41
            The applause continues, delegates get up and applaud while standing!
          2. +1
            21 December 2017 21: 22
            And you, I see, quickly spread to the side of the victors .... Under that other article they would not say that ....
      2. 0
        29 October 2018 12: 51
        Song of Ice and Fire
    2. +3
      22 December 2017 00: 35
      why should I read articles and materials supporting your point of view?
      why did you write me and others like me into non-people who do not have any rights and are obliged to live on reservations and serve you, the race of gentlemen, white bone?
      why then yours (not personally, but those that support your point of view) should not be published in the same section? for me they are no less absurd than mine for you, only I think your mistakes are dangerous as well, because they tear us from our roots and give us into the hands of collective evil. I will give Ukraine as an example. she, too, began to consider herself part of the Western world, and not some kind of barbaric eastern civilization of Moksha and Finno-Ugric peoples.
  9. +16
    21 December 2017 06: 46
    "False Fku" should be written like this - "False Vku"! (at 6.47 Minsk)
    Samsonov’s chic plus for not being afraid to express his opinion! hi
    Recently, people have generally forgotten how to think, analyze, draw conclusions, and look for causal relationships to understand an event. Yes
    Even the formulation of simple logical questions makes one doubt some historical events (unless of course you think, and not take on faith). historians immediately begin “we know better”, “we think that people were like that then”, “they did it voluntarily”, etc.
    But to question or admit other conclusions regarding the same "Mongol-Tatar yoke" the gut is thin! It is better to continue to come up with the works of whole adherents of this science how and why the whole nation, for thousands of kilometers, went to conquer unknown lands, so that later it would disappear again and not even leave genotypes (!!!! wassat ) I constantly laugh until I drop when I remember that "they were strictly forbidden to commit adultery because of the purity of blood" fool AHA laughing laughing
    The Germans also considered themselves a purebred Aryan race, but how many fruits of their labor remained after 3 years of occupation, not to mention the “yoke” for 300 years!
    Personally, my opinion is that I do not believe in this nonsense about the "yoke" as well as about the flights of amers to the moon. There are still brains to think about.
    I repeat - my personal opinion hi
    1. +12
      21 December 2017 06: 54
      And do not believe that the Earth is round, the Sun rotates around the Earth, and in general, the Earth stands on three pillars!
      1. +9
        21 December 2017 07: 02
        Do not exaggerate. Brains sometimes need to be strained wink hi
        1. +9
          21 December 2017 12: 02
          some have pain from this! I will subscribe to your every word! deepest to you hi hi
    2. +9
      21 December 2017 07: 02
      It depends on what you mean by “Yoke” ... If the enslavement of the Russian people (and in our tales / epics / even modern cartoons and films is positioned this way) then yes, it didn’t, but if it’s quite feudal as part of the feudal state!
      As for the flights to the Moon, the Soviet government recognized the fact of the flight, and I think if it had the facts of forgery, it would certainly have stated this, what an informational and propaganda bomb! If you don’t believe because of the “wavering” flag, then keep in mind that there is no atmosphere on the moon and therefore the vibration during transportation and installation also decays very slowly;)
      1. +2
        21 December 2017 07: 42
        Quote: parma
        It depends on what you mean by "yoke" ..

        They paid tribute, but there was no occupation. Even if the yoke is based on official history for 300 years, during this time the Tatars at least pretty much diluted their blood, taking captured Russian women as wives. laughing
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 08: 39
          They paid tribute, but there was no occupation.

          Not a "tribute", but a "way out", which is by no means the same thing. wink
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 14: 04
            Everyone pays taxes. The label for reigning - Putin also does not spoil.
        2. +1
          21 December 2017 22: 19
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Even if the yoke is based on official history for 300 years, during this time the Tatars at least pretty much diluted their blood, taking captured Russian women as wives. laughing

          Igor, how about "they kept the purity of blood under pain of death" ??? belay what request
    3. +4
      21 December 2017 07: 41
      ... why think ..- you have to jump ..
    4. +8
      21 December 2017 08: 03
      hi Welcome Andrew!
      Quote: Rurikovich
      My personal opinion is that I do not believe in this nonsense.

      laughing In that case - and sho it was belay ??
      Quote: Rurikovich
      to disappear again and not even leave behind genotypes

      what Andrei, considering that the Mongolian language belongs to the Mongolian language group of the Altai language family, then what kind of “Mongolian genotypes” are we looking for? Altai language family is the Türks! And actually the Mongols are one of the nationalities that inhabited Altai, the upper Yenisei of Transbaikalia and part of modern Mongolia! The Mongol is essentially a Turkic Mengu-el - that is, the "Eternal People"!
      Quote: Rurikovich
      why a whole nation went thousands of kilometers to conquer unknown lands

      laughing Well, just like the Huns from Korean lands rushed to the West, just like the Turks of Seljuk, and after them the Turks of the Ottomans from the sands of Turkmenistan rushed to the Middle East and why Iskander (Alexander) the Two-Horn needed to build the city of Alexandria Eskhat, which later became Tajik Khojent ????
      1. +4
        21 December 2017 18: 32
        Quote: Serg65
        In that case - what was it belay ????

        Hello, boyar! drinks hi
        Sergey, as you like, you can call this period, but not IGOM! This term arose at the time of the dominance of foreigners in the Russian Academy of Sciences of the Lomonosov era, which was already the order after the "yoke", without witnesses. And we are again forced to maintain this nonsense. Turn on the brains, you, bastard, an adult and smart person, and compare what is called the yoke with today's realities wink Maybe our time will also be called a yoke ...
        And to believe that the people who build temples and pay tithing (TEN, CARL!) Were under the yoke? I'm just stupidly comparing and comparing it is not in favor of the "yoke." What do you want, but not the yoke. And if you take into account where this term comes from, it’s not at all surprising - the Germans will not say about the prosperity of the Russian state wink

        Quote: Serg65
        Andrei, considering that the Mongolian language belongs to the Mongolian language group of the Altai language family, then what kind of “Mongolian genotypes” are we looking for

        Sergey, half of Asia has Turkic roots, all of Eastern Europe has Slavic roots of the language, the Latins of Western Europe have an order of magnitude younger language than more complex and diverse Russian. The older the language, the more complex its structure and its more diverse vocabulary.
        So, if the Mongols really had power over Russia for three centuries, then this would be reflected in the language (which is not in the European part of Russia), and the blood would be more diluted than now.
        Type in the search engine "Forgotten History of Russia / Russian we". Very interesting article Yes
        That's all I mean, that sometimes you don’t need to stupidly believe what they say ...
        Quote: Serg65
        Well, just like the Huns from Korean lands rushed to the West, just like the Turks of Seljuk, and after them the Turks of the Ottomans from the sands of Turkmenistan rushed to the Middle East and why Iskander (Alexander) the Two-Horn needed to build the city of Alexandria Eskhat, which later became Tajik Khojent ????

        This is also a big question ... And believe me, this is not a matter of “passionarity” invented by Gumilyov to explain many strange things in history. Even the fundamental Roman Empire from textbooks is in doubt, if you start to think logically and cast doubt on dogma. hi
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 21: 49
          Quote: Rurikovich
          Sergey, half of Asia has Turkic roots,

          Rave. Has common linguistic roots, but not national. Tajiks. Syrians and Iranians are completely different in genotype peoples with Uzbeks, Kazakhs and Mongols. Not to mention the Turks and Azerbaijanis. angry
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 21: 55
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            has common linguistic roots,

            I meant it hi
            1. +2
              21 December 2017 21: 57
              Quote: Rurikovich
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              has common linguistic roots,

              I meant it

              Yes, Andrey, but here it’s hard to reach the brain through logic! drinks
              1. +4
                21 December 2017 22: 26
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Yes, Andrey, but here it’s hard to reach the brain through logic! drinks

                At times, when I read comments on articles on history, especially regarding topics that are very burning, such as today, I get the feeling that we, the vast majority of the people, live in some kind of surrealism, behind glass, according to firm rules imposed by no one knows who and when. And today this worldview leads to the fact that, not to mention the 500-year-old history, yesterday’s events with live witnesses are being rewritten with might and main. America took Berlin, America defeated ISIS in Syria ....
                And then come up with some yoke winked
          2. +2
            28 December 2017 13: 11
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Quote: Rurikovich
            Sergey, half of Asia has Turkic roots,

            Rave. Has common linguistic roots, but not national. Tajiks. Syrians and Iranians are completely different in genotype peoples with Uzbeks, Kazakhs and Mongols. Not to mention the Turks and Azerbaijanis. angry

            At least someone emphasizes this, and for some Mongols these are Türks, and Türks are all who speak Turkish! And it doesn’t touch anyone that the classification by nationality, language and all that begins no earlier than the end of the 18th century
            And before that, people just lived engaged in cattle breeding, agriculture and all that, and did not think that they belong to one or another nationality !!!
    5. +11
      21 December 2017 10: 03
      Quote: Rurikovich
      But to question or admit other conclusions regarding the same "Mongol-Tatar yoke" the gut is thin!

      It’s just too lazy for people to learn alternatives, they are happy with what they’re getting involved in educational institutions. Ukraine is the clearest example of how to brainwash “official history”.
      1. +11
        21 December 2017 13: 05
        Quote: Alone
        Ukraine is the clearest example of how you can powder your brains with “official history”.

        laughing This is, on the contrary, an example of how you can make idiots out of the people with the help of an alternative story!
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 18: 34
          Quote: Serg65
          This is, on the contrary, an example of how you can make idiots out of the people with the help of an alternative story!

          My friend, just as with the help of invented myths, you can make slaves from a prosperous people wink feel
          1. +7
            22 December 2017 08: 26
            Quote: Rurikovich
            My friend, just as with the help of invented myths, you can make slaves from a prosperous people

            what Andrei, let's throw away all our beliefs and desires - we look only at the facts!
            The Mongols ... no .... let's just say ..... nomads. Nomads from the distant steppes of Transbaikalia united and smashed the Manchus, capturing at the same time half the civilization of the nomads into several goals, China (Beijing witness) - is that a fact? Lies?
            Khorezmshah, having decided that he grabbed Allah by the bells, achieved this. that the nomads, having passed through the Dzungarian gate, overthrew the whole of Central Asia to dust (And the Central Asian culture of that time, for a minute, was several times superior to European culture!) - is this a fact? Lies?
            The nomads, having defeated the Volga Bulgaria, invaded the Russian lands. The death of Ryazan, Suzdal, Yaroslavl, Kiev, the defense of Kozelsk is a fact? Lies?
            Having conquered part of Russia, the nomads went east, i.e. as such, there was no occupation - is that a fact? Lies?
            Grand Duke Vladimir Yaroslav Vsevolodovich having traveled to Karakorum, let's say, received the rank of governor - is that a fact? Lies?
            Russia paid tribute to the Horde - is it a fact? Lies?
            Novgorod did not suffer the fate of the devastated southern Russian cities - this is exactly a fact!
            At the same time, Novgorod Prince Alexander Nevsky goes to Karakoram and receives a shortcut to own all of Russia - is that a fact? Lies?
            The Battle of Kulikovo, Andrei Oslyable, Alexander Peresvet - is it a fact? Lies?
            So, dear Andrey, what in the above was a fact, but what is a myth?
            1. Net
              +2
              22 December 2017 18: 52
              To Karakoram or Saray trips?
              1. 0
                22 December 2017 19: 46
                Quote: Net
                To Karakoram or Saray trips?

                To Karakoram. Both Alexander Yaroslavich and his dad, Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, wound to Karakorum for the label. Yaroslav Vsevolodovich there, during the second trip, and "that" - was sent to the Lord God ... If sclerosis does not change me.
                1. +1
                  23 December 2017 08: 34
                  Your nickname surprises .... Anyway, in Russian - God ..... I tell you like a Tengrian ....
                  1. +1
                    23 December 2017 12: 04
                    In honor of the unsuccessful climb to this beauty: (Consider then the second time born.)
            2. +2
              22 December 2017 22: 38
              Quote: Serg65
              Andrei, let's throw away all our beliefs and desires - we look only at the facts!

              Ok drinks I'm just from godfather fellow
              Quote: Serg65
              Nomads from the distant steppes of Transbaikalia united and smashed the Manchus, capturing at the same time half the civilization of the nomads into several goals, China (Beijing witness) - is that a fact? Lies?

              Is it according to Gumilyov? what They just took it and united ??? belay
              Quote: Serg65
              that the nomads, having passed through the Dzungarian gate, overthrew the whole of Central Asia to dust (And the Central Asian culture of that time, for a minute, was several times superior to European culture!) - is this a fact? Lies?

              That at the time of 12-13 centuries. European culture is a phantom - I have no doubt, but I doubt the painted history of the Mongols request
              Quote: Serg65
              The death of Ryazan, Suzdal, Yaroslavl, Kiev, the defense of Kozelsk is a fact? Lies?

              It depends on what sauce to look at. if from the "yoke" - then yes, but if from the other points of view. then the police action to eliminate tithing defaulters (TENS, CARL) is completely justified! wink
              Quote: Serg65
              Having conquered part of Russia, the nomads went east, i.e. as such, there was no occupation - is that a fact? Lies?

              See above...
              If the "nomads" are the police today. Then there’s no need to invent anything - it’s completely the case ...
              Quote: Serg65
              Grand Duke Vladimir Yaroslav Vsevolodovich having traveled to Karakorum, let's say, received the rank of governor - is that a fact? Lies?

              Credentials are handed today. We will write to receive a "label for reign" ???
              Quote: Serg65
              Russia paid tribute to the Horde - is it a fact? Lies?

              Sergey, how much tax do you pay today ??? wink tithe, al more ??? feel
              Quote: Serg65
              Novgorod did not suffer the fate of the devastated southern Russian cities - this is exactly a fact!

              Today Novgorod already somehow does not correspond to the annals of Novgorod, therefore, if the conquerors would go to conquer Russian cities, then they would naturally aim at the "advanced" city in the first place, that is. Novgorod. And then it somehow passed ... A mess .... Or a mismatch ... Or maybe a mistake appeared in the annals and the "facts" do not correspond to the "history"? Or maybe Novgorod is not that ??? Or "yoke" wasn’t ".... ???? what
              Quote: Serg65
              At the same time, Novgorod Prince Alexander Nevsky goes to Karakoram and receives a shortcut to own all of Russia - is that a fact? Lies?

              See above...
              Quote: Serg65
              The Battle of Kulikovo, Andrei Oslyable, Alexander Peresvet - is it a fact? Lies?

              I do not argue!
              Kulikovo battle with the icon of Sergius of Radonezh

              Right on 2/5 “Mamaia’s army”, the rest are Russian squads. Do you see the difference ??? But the icon was painted by people who were closer to the event than we, therefore, more knowledgeable about the participants in the event. Do you see the difference? Me not. Therefore, I would rather believe in civil strife than in the struggle of the Russians with the conquerors ...

              Quote: Serg65
              So, dear Andrey, what in the above was a fact, but what is a myth?

              Sergey, with all due respect to you, I cannot agree with a fundamental look at the yoke story. For me it never happened. it’s the same as what’s happening to our Olympians - they said from the side that they are flaccid and begin to press. and after 20 years of commercials this will already be a fact in history textbooks. And what do you say ??? wink
              Sergey, everything is relative. Only contemporaries of those events can prove the opposite about the “yoke.” As well as the fact that we took Berlin in particular. The last witnesses will die and Berlin will “take” the Americans. Will it become easier for me? I don’t. Therefore, the yoke for me is myth... hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +6
                23 December 2017 07: 29
                Quote: Rurikovich
                Therefore, for me, the "yoke" is a myth

                laughing That's why I always liked the Belarusians - because they are stubborn and spin like in a frying pan good
                Quote: Rurikovich
                Is it according to Gumilyov?

                what No, my friend, this is according to Zhao Hong! I didn’t read Gumilev, by the way, I prefer sources closer to the subject being studied .... for example, "Men-da bei-lu", "Collection of Annals" by Rashid ad-Din, "Laurentian Chronicle"
                Quote: Rurikovich
                Or maybe a mistake then in the annals came out and the "facts" do not correspond to the "history"?

                Andrei, my friend, the last days of the defense of Sevastopol ...... there are materials refuting the "official version", in spite of the "Khrushchev’s mopping up," there is! Are there any materials refuting the "Lavrentievsky Chronicle" regarding Novgorod - only a partial rejection of this fact!
                Quote: Rurikovich
                And what do you say ???

                laughing Of course, they will be included in textbooks, because we are “Ivanes who don’t remember kinship” and this was proved throughout the entire XNUMXth century !!! We easily abandon our story and begin to invent a new one, you just have to pour mud on the previous story! wink
    6. 0
      21 December 2017 21: 41
      According to the results of recent studies in the field of the Russian literary language, it is established that in the word "so" all letters must be written separately :))
  10. +13
    21 December 2017 06: 51
    However, there was the ancient Scythian-Siberian world of pagan Rus, inheriting the traditions of many millennia going back to the time of the Aryans and Hyperboreans.

    1. +8
      21 December 2017 07: 03
      Doctor! Well, you can’t break a man’s life like that! He can be chopped off for the Pulitzer Prize ..., well, to the last resort, maybe they will give Aelita. And you, uh ...!
      1. +7
        21 December 2017 07: 21
        Well, I love, I, Faina Ranevskaya, have no strength! And here, she’s just in topic and most importantly, there’s nothing further to discuss. If only her? wink
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 07: 33
          Not original, Leonid Ilyich first said! Yes
          1. +3
            21 December 2017 07: 47
            I, too, Leonid Ilyich, Ku! wassat
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 12: 07
              and I’m even more KU!
              1. +4
                21 December 2017 12: 13
                It was a good time, though. And himself, he ...
      2. +4
        21 December 2017 11: 32
        He can be chopped off for the Pulitzer Prize ..., well, to the last resort, maybe they will give Aelita. And you, uh ...!

        Anton, that rather on the principle: "When the Nobel is rightfully handed to me, my spiteful critics will shut up!" fellow laughing
    2. +2
      21 December 2017 07: 23
      Quote: avva2012
      However, there was the ancient Scythian-Siberian world of pagan Rus, inheriting the traditions of many millennia going back to the time of the Aryans and Hyperboreans.


      Well, what are your specific claims to the author? Explain in more detail with human Russian, your hints are frankly not clear. In addition to delirium tremens, what other diseases of the people you know, it will be very interesting to know.
      1. +7
        21 December 2017 07: 38
        There are no complaints that you! ".... persuading is useless. It can only offend him (" they don’t believe me, but I’m suffering "), it is risky to contact him: you can be included in the plot, for example, as that particular attacker, for example, because that you have a short haircut, and all the hired killers have a short haircut (do not try to find the logic here, it is "crooked logic") .... https: //insanity-ru.livejournal.com/
        3173.html
        1. +6
          21 December 2017 08: 04
          You see, doctor, and you reproach me with tendentiousness. My tendentiousness is just babble compared to this. And at least one link to at least some sources, yes ?! That's it, doctor! That's who I learn and learn from ...
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 08: 55
            That's who I learn and learn from ...

            True? I think it’s not worth it, because it’s not possible to learn this, you can only live with it. Your "tendentiousness" is natural, as with any bourgeois ideologist. You yourself cannot give any links, because as soon as you find the source of information by the link, it will immediately turn out that the quote is taken out of context and it turns out that K. Marx is no Russophobe.
  11. +12
    21 December 2017 06: 57
    In general, for the complete falsification of history, there are many facts. Until 2008, I was an ardent adherent of official history. But how, in front of my eyes, the events of the war with Georgia were distorted, everything changed. See how they are simply rewriting the history of the Second World War, and veterans are still alive. As we are now (and what should be hidden in the USSR), they distorted the history of the 17th year and the civil war. And so, that was 200-1000 and so on. years ago, written rewritten. See how our former republics invent their ancient and, of course, great history!
    Regarding the article, I also share the opinion in a strong distortion (and possibly in a complete rewrite) of this fragment of history. Even the doctor of historical sciences, about whom you can’t say (and official historians love to spit in his face) that he is not a professional, speaks of the horde in a completely different way (albeit closer to the official one). By the way, where the nomads of the Horde took weapons, the nomads did not have foundry. The same historians say that Russia of the 12th-13th centuries, the same swords. Almost 100% were imported from the bright west. And we had forges.
    But still, the question is horde to you, if it was the Russes (Europioids), then how did the Tatars (Asians) get to the Crimea?
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 07: 09
      Quote: zyzx
      Regarding the article, I also share the opinion in a strong distortion of this fragment of history

      Alas, but it’s not easy to get people to adequately look at some things even in the same story. If you want a person to start thinking, you need to make sure that he himself wants it. But it’s easier for us to believe a “venerable” historian than to turn on the brain and start thinking yourself
      Quote: zyzx
      See how they are simply rewriting the history of the Second World War, and veterans are still alive. As we now (and what should be hidden in the USSR), the history of the 17th year and the civil war is distorted. And so, that was 200-1000 and so on. years ago, written rewritten. See how our former republics invent themselves ancient and of course great history!

      Even this majority does not convince - they will continue to believe that the period when Russia built Orthodox churches was called the yoke laughing But in all seriousness, they justify this very “yoke” so much that you marvel at the ingenuity of historians. Today's taxes are many times more a yoke, but no one says that this is an excessive yoke wassat , We live, did not die hi
      1. +1
        27 December 2017 01: 29
        Label Jewish Iga - "God's" slavery for the natives. The Bible is Con Iga.
    2. +5
      21 December 2017 07: 19
      Quote: zyzx
      .. if it was Russes (europioids), then how did the Tatars (Asians) get to the Crimea?

      What makes you think that some "Tatars" and "Asia" came to the Crimea? Actually, "Crimea" is a Russian-language term meaning "land" and no other. Right now we use the Polish term "Ukraina", and before the XIX century the British called this territory "Little Tartary", that is, it turns out that the current "Ukrainians" are the true Tatars (the term is also Polish, in our Russian has a different meaning). So no “Tatars" came to the Crimea, they were just called so, and more recently. But what they called themselves before coming to Crimea and renaming them is really a question, though few people are interested in it. I hope that I answered this your question.
      1. +5
        21 December 2017 08: 27
        Quote: venaya
        What makes you think that some "Tatars" and "Asia" came to the Crimea? Actually, "Crimea" is a Russian-language term meaning "land" and no other.

        From ancient times, the name Tavrika (Greek Ταυρικῆ), descended from the name of the most ancient tribes of Taurians that inhabited the southern part of Crimea, was assigned to the peninsula. The modern name “Crimea” began to be widely used only after the XNUMXth century, presumably by the name of the city “Kyrym”, which after the capture of the Northern Black Sea Coast by the Mongols was the residence of the governor of the Golden Horde. It is also possible that the name “Crimea” came from the Perekop Isthmus (the Russian word “Perekop” is a translation of the Turkic word “qirim”, which means “moat”).
        The etymology of the word “Kyrym” is unclear, and there are several versions of its origin:

        Distortion of the ancient name of the Cimmeria Peninsula (lat. Cimmerium)
        From the ancient Turkic word * qurum ("defense, defense")
        From the ancient Greek κρημνοί (cream, "rock")
        1. +2
          22 December 2017 17: 29
          Question: how exactly does the word dig (dig, dig, dig?) With the root "cop" associated with the word qirim?
          1. +1
            22 December 2017 20: 07
            Quote: Nulgorod
            Question: how exactly does the word dig (dig, dig, dig?) With the root "cop" associated with the word qirim?

            I’ll hint at the correct answer: do you know how many languages ​​besides Russian? laughing Imagine, the word "digging", in other languages, may have a different root !!! Revelation, isn't it ?! lol
            1. 0
              22 December 2017 21: 00
              Gosha!! I really didn’t know! And qirim, this isthmus was so called before, right?
              1. +1
                22 December 2017 21: 29
                Quote: Nulgorod
                Gosha!! I really didn’t know!

                But who knows you, de`Bill (s) - do you know or not?
                Quote: Nulgorod
                And qirim, this isthmus was so called before, right?

                Quote: RUSS
                Attention! also, that the name “Crimea” comes from the Perekop Isthmus (the Russian word “Perekop” is a translation of the Turkic word “qirim”, which means “moat”).

                Uh ... How softer? Is Russian a native language? Does the word "maybe" mean anything to you?
                1. The comment was deleted.
    3. +1
      21 December 2017 08: 42
      And we had forges.

      The shouting iron on the swords was by no means well. And the local blacksmiths were dealing with it.
    4. 0
      21 December 2017 17: 05
      Quote: zyzx
      But still, the question is horde to you, if it was the Russes (Europioids), then how did the Tatars (Asians) get to the Crimea?

      So Kipchaks since 11th century. in Crimea.
  12. +12
    21 December 2017 07: 13
    Another Russophobian vyser attempt to rob us of history. And make the memory of our ancestors traitors to our people .. and the fatherland. All this vile Tartophilia (whose supporters of great Tartaria was not) was invented only to fragment our spiritual and historical space.
  13. +12
    21 December 2017 07: 20
    With such articles, the site will soon turn into a fiction like a UFO or speedinf.
    1. +10
      21 December 2017 08: 28
      Quote: Nix1986
      With such articles, the site will soon turn into a fiction like a UFO or speedinf.

      REN TV competitor laughing
      1. +6
        21 December 2017 08: 31
        Previously, there was a normal channel, right now this is a diagnosis for the beholder.
  14. +15
    21 December 2017 07: 24
    It was simply impossible - a huge army of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and even more horses would have nothing to feed.
    ... That's right .... the Mongol and had no horses .... laughing They fought along the rivers laughing... Further and did not read .....
    1. +11
      21 December 2017 07: 51
      In addition to veny, Oparyshev will be tightened now, then everything, extinguish the candles. The arguments will be "killer."
      1. +7
        21 December 2017 07: 55
        Yeah, schA ponabegut "adherents" ....
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +7
        21 December 2017 08: 52
        Quote: igordok
        Except veni ..

        What kind of hatred should one have for the nickname denoting the ancient name of Rus? Can you show a map here?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +5
          21 December 2017 10: 48
          Is this a map of the 11th century? Am I confused anything?
          Powerful argument ... I give up ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +3
                  21 December 2017 22: 42
                  Communicating with idiots to me, it’s impossible to react differently to their sounds .... It's just my homeric laughter of a man looking at the monkey’s grimaces trying to look like a man ... Does it seem that you are worried ...? So you just keep quiet, smarter will look ....
                  1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +4
            22 December 2017 05: 19
            Quote: Army 2
            Is this a map of the 11th century? Am I confused anything?

            Came from the depths of centuries! From father to son, the Wenedian shamans handed in secret from the Arab-Semites! Where is there in Pulp Fiction the father of Bruce Willis hid the clock from the Viet Cong?)))
            1. +1
              27 December 2017 01: 33
              This is called infographics. For stupid.
        3. +8
          21 December 2017 12: 43
          And the inscription on this map would be Slavic-Aryan runes, then I would believe)))) Wends from Venice to Kamchatka! Etruscans-This is Russian! Cannabis is free!
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 16: 16
            - Aviation, without sediment ...
            - Rocket. The best is for children.
            - American! ..
            (c) film "DMB"
            laughing
        4. +2
          21 December 2017 21: 31
          Venya! Clowning is counted !!!
        5. +3
          22 December 2017 05: 15
          Quote: venaya
          What kind of hatred should one have for the nickname denoting the ancient name of Rus? Can you show a map here?

          Venechka, you imagine a lot about yourself. Well, who needs to hate you?))) And the pictures that you call cards, draw esho)))
          1. 0
            22 December 2017 11: 10
            Quote: AllXVahhaB
            Well, who needs to hate you?

            If I understand you correctly, then your post is nothing more than a manifestation of your inferiority complex. I have noticed this with many people, thank you for acknowledging this. But you do not really hate me, but the whole Russian people, no matter how they were called earlier - that’s your whole essence!
            1. 0
              23 December 2017 08: 48
              Quote: venaya
              If I understand you correctly, then your post is nothing more than a manifestation of your inferiority complex. I have noticed this with many people, thank you for acknowledging this.

              I see that in psychoanalysis you are as strong as in history wink
              Quote: venaya
              But you do not really hate me, but the whole Russian people, no matter how they were called earlier - that’s your whole essence!

              Here you are mistaken - I love myself very much! And therefore, I can’t hate the people I represent. But since you are prescribing me with a capital letter, you are apparently hinting that I belong to another ethnic group? If you are talking about mythical wends from a satellite image of the “great tartaria”, then yes - these sick fantasies are not about my ancestors!
      3. +6
        21 December 2017 11: 48
        In addition to veny, Oparyshev will be tightened now, then everything, extinguish the candles. The arguments will be "killer."

        I have a vague feeling that this character (Oparyshev) is just having fun. what But the Rev. can be hung the Order of the Black Penguin Pitek "for the development of domestic historical science" fellow
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 12: 01
          But the Rev. can be hung the Order of the Black Penguin Pitek "for the development of domestic historical science"

          ???
  15. +3
    21 December 2017 07: 26
    Of course, one can list a lot of absurdities and non-skirmishes about the myth of the "yoke" and the "invasion of the Mongol-Tatars." And even more so to see how "enlightened Europe" writes history for us. About the Great Patriotic War or they have already defeated ISIS in Syria. Therefore, the version of those distant events presented by Alexander Samsonov seems logical and not without foundation.
    1. +1
      22 December 2017 05: 23
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      Therefore, the version of those distant events presented by Alexander Samsonov seems logical and not without foundation.

      But where is the material evidence on the territory of Tartaria? Where are the aqueducts, roads, remnants of therms and amphitheaters? Unlike the territories of the former Roman Empire?
  16. +12
    21 December 2017 07: 30
    Article frank harmful shit in line with the information war against the Russian people
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 09: 04
      I myself believe that all this "historical" glum with the "Tatar Mongol Yoke", this is truly what you have noticed here: "blatant bad shit in line with the information war against the Russian people". I think this is more true!
      1. +8
        21 December 2017 12: 15
        this is what kind of Russophobe you need to be in order to believe that the wild nomads, having nestled over 6 thousand km, have conquered a quite developed state?
        1. 0
          21 December 2017 21: 49
          What are wild? The situation is the opposite. The cuirassiers of the 18th century turned out to be in the 13th century. The empire blew up an autonomous venegret.
          1. +4
            21 December 2017 22: 35
            cuirassiers? the Mongols? are we talking about nomads? my friend, why the fuck doesn’t fit, cuirassiers are heavy cavalry, even special horses are required, and the Mongols have small horses, and where do they, sickly, take so much metal to become heavy cavalry? do sheep have to milk? Well, let's be closer to the economy - it will become easier, I’ll be a bastard!
            1. +1
              22 December 2017 14: 55
              Quote: novel xnumx
              even horses require special horses, but the Mongols have small horses, and where do they, sickly, take so much metal to become a heavy cavalry? do sheep have to milk? Well, let's be closer to the economy - it will become easier, I’ll be a bastard!

              Be what your years are. Is Kashik a familiar word? They had larger horses, the metal was full in the Jin Empire, Khorezm, Tangut, the Volga Bulgaria. I hope you do not deny the economy of these states?
              1. +2
                22 December 2017 17: 32
                And how did they conquer them, huh?
                1. +1
                  22 December 2017 18: 30
                  Simply. Armies lured into battle and destroyed, and then took the city, by siege or assault.
                  1. +2
                    22 December 2017 20: 02
                    Quote: zoolu350
                    Simply. Armies lured into battle and destroyed, and then took the city, by siege or assault.

                    Why aren’t they defeating anyone now?
                    1. 0
                      24 December 2017 04: 12
                      For the same reason, why the army of Honduras does not defeat anyone: there is no nuclear weapons, there are no capacities for its production and production of delivery vehicles, a strong army and industry sufficient to equip the troops with all the necessary mobilization, industrial and scientific potential equal to neighboring states.
                      1. +1
                        24 December 2017 14: 20
                        Quote: zoolu350
                        no nuclear weapons, capacities for its production, and so on and so forth.

                        But before, everything was exactly the same, the settled peoples excelled the nomadic in numbers, organizationally, technologically, excelled in everything, and the superiority was multiple and orders of magnitude, nevertheless, according to the official history (in which I do not believe), the nomads somehow won.
                        What is stopping them now?
                  2. +3
                    22 December 2017 20: 27
                    Um, was it that easy to take and destroy? Stormed the city without siege vehicles?
                    1. 0
                      24 December 2017 04: 16
                      No, they were transported by bus with their families in Syria. Of course they exterminated. You can storm a small town with overwhelming numerical superiority using assault ladders and ropes with hooks. You don’t usually take a large city like that, but after the conquest of Jin and Khorezm, the Mongols did not have problems with siege technology.
                  3. 0
                    23 December 2017 15: 26
                    > Simple. The armies were lured into a field battle and destroyed, and then they took the cities, by siege or by storm.

                    in order to believe in this simplicity, that experienced military leaders of developed countries suddenly, suddenly unlearned all the basics of military tactics and strategy, you need to be completely inadequate.

                    You can conquer anyone - but you need to prove in detail how this happened, and not so - they took and conquered, also simply how to put the elephant in the refrigerator for three movements
                    1. +1
                      23 December 2017 16: 04
                      the battle of Voronezh, Kolomna, City, etc. - Russian chronicles explain in detail how the princes came out to meet the nomads and perished. Then sieges and assaults. The same thing in the Hungarian, Czech and other lands, in the Caucasus and in Central Asia - what is the problem?
                      1. 0
                        23 December 2017 19: 38
                        > Battle of Voronezh, Kolomna, City, etc. - Russian chronicles explain in detail how the princes went out to meet the nomads and died.

                        you're kind of on a site that has something to do with military topics. So, only complete inadequate people go to war on an obviously strong opponent without various tricks, in unsuitable conditions for themselves.

                        And generally speaking, they don’t fight at all with an opponent capable of burning a city and destroying your people, but simply surrender, because there are many examples of establishing completely acceptable relations with the surrendered Mongols.

                        > Then sieges and assaults. The same is true in the Hungarian, Czech and other lands, in the Caucasus and in Central Asia - what's the problem?

                        Armenia had never before been conquered in one battle - we have a mountainous country, its conquest stretched for many years for everyone - the length of the Romans, and for the Persians, and for the Arabs. And A.Makedonsky never risked sending troops to Armenia. Armenia never did not enter his state. He simply landed in the Armenian mountains to destroy his Macedonian guard, on which his dominion was based.
                      2. +2
                        24 December 2017 23: 27
                        Could you specifically specify in which particular record there is a "detailed description" of what you are talking about?
                    2. +1
                      24 December 2017 04: 25
                      It is necessary to be inadequate in order to believe that the steppe wolves like Chingiz, Subede, and Jebe and their nukers could be opposed by relatives of the beloved concubine of all emperors such as Wanyan Magade or eunuch Khorezmshah.
                      1. 0
                        26 December 2017 00: 13
                        > You have to be inadequate to believe that the steppe wolves like Chingiz, Subede, and Chepe and their nukers could be opposed by the relatives of the beloved concubine of any emperors like Wanyan Magade or the eunuchs of Khorezmshah

                        I don’t even know laughing or crying from such an argument. One of the tasks of human society is the preservation and enhancement of knowledge and practical skills, in particular the military.
                        This happened in different ways - sometimes with the help of generations of the military, sometimes with the help of military institutions, sometimes there was a mixture of both. For example, in Armenia there were aristocratic clans of military commanders / commanders-in-chief of the Armenian army who, naturally, had accumulated various fighting skills for centuries. Why is a steppe wolf steeper than a mountain eagle?
                        And a similar situation was in many other states. Therefore, to explain the military successes of the Mongols by their special military cunning, accuracy, treachery, horses ... is riding inadequacy, because people have always been able to quickly learn from defeats, they have always been able to compensate for shortcomings with merits, and victory has always been achieved by balance and tension of all forces.

                        There should be detailed layouts of what the Mongols had horses, how they ran, how they were trained, how much they ate, how much they could run, consuming such food, how much food they could find along the way - all this should be justified with numbers, and not just the genre of mythology - the Mongol horses are just super, eat everything that gets into their mouths, and the Mongol archers covered the sun with shots from their bows.
                  4. +1
                    25 December 2017 17: 18
                    It’s strange. Nobody lured either before or after them, and only the super-duper “Mongols” managed to “lure” them.
                    Well, let them "lure". So is it your opinion that those who were "lured" came out (were lured) with only one purpose - to sacrifice themselves to the "Mongols" and did not resist? But the Swiss and Flemings did not know that they had no chance against the knightly cavalry, whose blow is an order of magnitude stronger than the blow of the "Mongolian horsemen", whose horses look more like ponies than horses and .... beat the knightly cavalry.
        2. +5
          22 December 2017 05: 25
          Quote: novel xnumx
          that the wild nomads, having snuggled over 6 thousand km, have conquered quite a developed state?

          They had conquered China before that. Or was China less developed then?
          1. +4
            22 December 2017 07: 18
            about ancient China - either good or nothing, the story is also dark there
            1. +2
              23 December 2017 09: 03
              Quote: novel xnumx
              about ancient China - either good or nothing, the story is also dark there

              Why is it dark? They dug up a terracotta army, the third century BC:


              Where is something like that in the territory of the great tartaria?
              And most importantly, what types!


              It’s all about the selection of the blond beasts of the aria-weneda! fellow
            2. +3
              23 December 2017 15: 33
              And what's dark, sorry?
        3. 0
          23 December 2017 15: 23
          > wild nomads, having pinned themselves for 6 thousand km, conquered quite a developed state?

          must be supplemented - they conquered Central Asia for many years, and Russia, Armenia and Georgia in one campaign.
          1. 0
            23 December 2017 16: 07
            not true - resistance in the Caucasus and Bulgaria lasted 10 years - one of the reasons why the Mongols did not go to Novgorod, for example, is the struggle in the rear
            1. 0
              23 December 2017 19: 43
              > Caucasus

              Armenia is not the Caucasus, and I can not imagine the conquest of our country in 10 years by cavalry.
            2. +1
              24 December 2017 04: 28
              There was no one to resist in the rear, the rest simply survived. I suspect an “agreement” between Batu and Yaroslav Vsevlodovich.
  17. +7
    21 December 2017 07: 31
    We must ask who “Samsonov Alexander” is, what kind of scientific work and degree he has.
    No wonder they say, "Russians are a people with an unpredictable history."
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 07: 57
      Long overdue!
    2. +5
      21 December 2017 08: 29
      Quote: trampoline instructor
      We must ask who “Samsonov Alexander” is, what kind of scientific work and degree he has.
      No wonder they say, "Russians are a people with an unpredictable history."

      There is nothing fantasy about this master on the internet.
      1. +3
        21 December 2017 11: 44
        I also did not find anything in the journal Voprosy istorii ...
  18. +11
    21 December 2017 07: 35
    Apparently the ranks of the subversors of history will never run out, as well as those who like to break into the open door. But alas! not eccentrics who “decorate” the world or are busy searching for eternal truth. These are rather “eternal” alchemists from history, living with the idea of ​​finding gold where it does not exist. But how much noise from nothing!
    1. +7
      21 December 2017 07: 57
      As I imagine, history is a series of events that follow one after another and are proven. Everything else is stories about history. So all sorts of "alternative versions" are invented by those people who do not know this series. They grab some event and begin to think and invent something. But at the same time, they always like to argue loudly and prove something.
      Here, a completely peremptory tone annoys me - no doubt, no reasoning, it was as Samsonov said, and nothing else! Let me figure it out without Samsonov myself.
      1. +3
        22 December 2017 21: 19
        The same can be said of proponents of official history. Besides the fact that there are more of them.
        1. 0
          23 December 2017 07: 14
          Historical events, I emphasize, are proven. And what is really proven and what exactly is proved in the "alternative versions"?
          1. +1
            24 December 2017 23: 32
            Nothing really is proven. Neither there nor there.
  19. +14
    21 December 2017 07: 56
    Oh Lord, how scary. The man is crazy and reports it loudly! And all the annals were rewritten by papal spies, it’s clear ... And they didn’t forget to draw pictures ...
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 08: 14
      Quote: kalibr
      And all the annals are rewritten by papal spies, of course ...

      This moment is more detailed please, I mean of course the manuscripts themselves. As far as I know, the very concept of “yoke” is not of Russian origin and it came to us just from the west, and a century after a certain “yoke” had already ended. That is, people in Russia learned about the "yoke" much later than the event itself. If you have other data, then enlighten us, it will be very interesting, and I will send these new data to specialists working on this topic, I will dedicate them so to speak.
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 05: 29
        Quote: venaya
        and I will send this new data to specialists dealing with this topic, I will devote it, so to speak.

        What kind of “specialists” do you mean? Circle Fomenkovtsev-Galkovtsev?)))
      2. 0
        25 December 2017 04: 13
        That is, since there was no word, then there was no phenomenon?

        Well then Neanderthals also did not exist, they did not call themselves that lol
    2. +6
      21 December 2017 08: 37
      Caliber. Moreover, it’s interesting: “papal” scouts everywhere managed to draw pictures and fake chronicles and pray
      1. +4
        21 December 2017 11: 26
        They are omnipresent and omnipotent!
  20. +8
    21 December 2017 07: 58
    Instead of writing articles, I suggest that the author come to our place in Vladimir, go to the Golden Gate, and look at the exposition of the assault of Vladimir by the Tatar-Mongolian army and communicate with local historians there, it may brighten up.
    1. +8
      21 December 2017 08: 12
      to the exposition of the assault of Vladimir by the Tatar-Mongol army and to communicate with local historians,
      But you are a comedian however). I propose to go to Urengoy and chat with rut, he will tell you about the Great Patriotic War. That's where it gets dark.
      1. +7
        21 December 2017 08: 19
        Well, the boy, Kolya, had to be brought down by his parents, at least to the mothers, the mound along with his history teacher, maybe historical reality would have reached them.
        1. +1
          22 December 2017 00: 42
          and how do you differ from Kolya? you still consider your brothers to be enemies and worship the Judas who betrayed their clan, their ancestors, their faith.
          You and Kolya have one berry field.
          1. +1
            22 December 2017 09: 13
            Unlike you and Kolya, I know the history of World War 2 well, fascists are not brothers to me and never will be, unlike you, I have both grandfathers and their brothers have gone through the whole war, grandfather returned from the war in 1947, filter what you write .
            1. +4
              22 December 2017 20: 56
              that’s exactly what you know only the stories of the Second World War, and even that honestly you don’t know a damn thing. for then they would know that the British wrote the ideology to the Germans, the basis was taken from the English Golden Dawn, on the basis of which germanenorden and all kinds of societies of Thule and Vril were formed.
              Jewish bankers allocated money for all this, through the “friends of Germany” and other NGOs of that time, they planned this war BEFORE the FIRST World War ended, the Versailles peace was intentionally signed with the possibility of paying reparations with German marks in order to guarantee hyperinflation and create a situation when the Germans will ask for a strong hand, and look for information about who created the whole industry in the 30s to the Germans.
              and also read what Woodrow Wilson said about the future war between Germany and Russia back in 1918, he openly said that it would be the work of their hands, and most importantly why they would organize this war.
              and in Germany itself then 2 branches of the Nazis fought, the Atlantists, who considered Atlantis to be the birthplace of the Aryans, its representatives were the SS, they are just the same force that America now represents. the second force believed that the homeland is the Russian north, and it was represented by the SA (in part, since this force was in itself, but the power block in it was based on the SA), and if the second force won. then the war would be all the same, but then it would be in the Hitler + USSR alliance against the Atlantists.
              but the first won, and we have what we have.
              the fact that for the future I advise you to filter the market, because you have your own opinion, but nothing more, since you do not have knowledge. and you can judge only about the battles and the course of the conflict, and not about the reasons, ideology and consequences (the Nazi ideology was not chosen by chance, the Aryans were chosen by the Nazis deliberately to denigrate the swastika and Arianism, the Germans themselves are not Aryans, this is Erbin, the second branch haplogroups r1, that is, r1b, the Aryans are r1a and the Aryans can be Germans (Eastern, since they are not Germans but German-speaking Slavs) and Persians and a bunch of other peoples.
              in general, study history and understand that Siberia is not a territory that we have mastered, it is our land from ancient times, we had empires there thousands of years ago.
              only she had a lot of names, so some go into a stupor and do not believe that these were our empires, because they believe that 3 years ago the Russian empire was called either the Russian Empire or the Russian Federation, and that the peoples change their names, they cannot think, for they do not master this thought.
              1. 0
                23 December 2017 08: 40
                Please excuse me for the "class" .... started for health, finished for peace. YOU WERE NEVER IN SIBERIA, but only the last a little more than 400 years
    2. +5
      21 December 2017 08: 24
      Quote: cobalt
      I suggest the author .. come to us in Vladimir, go into the Golden Gate, and there to look at the exposition of the assault of Vladimir by the Tatar-Mongol army and talk with local historians, it may brighten.

      Very interesting remark: maybe in your exposition there are preserved photo documents of that time? It really would be a truly scientific discovery - still the originals! By the way, in what particular year did this exposition open, in the XNUMXth-XNUMXth centuries? By the way, as for historians, the idea is useful, in communication you can often come not only to a common denominator, but also get closer to the truth, which would not hurt everyone. Then enlightenment will really come, at least in a narrow circle of specialists on this issue.
      1. +3
        22 December 2017 05: 32
        Quote: venaya
        maybe in your exposition there are preserved photo documents of that time?

        Well what are you! It's only you, as evidence of the habitat of the Wenedos, bring satellite maps)))
    3. +11
      21 December 2017 08: 31
      Quote: cobalt
      Instead of writing articles, I suggest that the author come to our place in Vladimir, go to the Golden Gate, and look at the exposition of the assault of Vladimir by the Tatar-Mongolian army and communicate with local historians there, it may brighten up.

      What for? Samsonov as Jules Verne writes without leaving home, why does science fiction go somewhere, everything is in my head.
    4. +2
      22 December 2017 00: 40
      I advise you, instead of running into the author, to travel through the mounds of Siberia, and to communicate with local not only historians, but in general with the population, you can enlighten.
  21. +4
    21 December 2017 08: 01
    Russia became the heiress of ancient supercivilization. The West could not gain dominance on the planet and the war was continued.

    But on points they (the so-called "west") are clearly replaying.
  22. +4
    21 December 2017 08: 20
    I do not pretend to be true. In what I am ready to argue with the author of the article. In one I support the Mongol-Tatars, it seems, was not.
    First, compare the dates of the crusades east. and supposedly the invasion of the Mongol-Tatars. At the same time. Maybe then Russia was baptized?
    As for the name "Tatare". Honor those of Lev Nikolaevich, especially when he served in the Caucasus. He has all the Muslims, called the Tatars.
    Well, in the third. Looking at how the story is being rewritten on the go, witnesses, which we ourselves were, but they tell us that everything is not so. Be careful with the judgments of events more distant.
    1. +1
      22 December 2017 05: 34
      Quote: Gardamir
      First, compare the dates of the crusades east. and supposedly the invasion of the Mongol-Tatars. At the same time. Maybe then Russia was baptized?

      Of course! Expansion in a couple of hundred years, from a historical point of view - statistical error)))
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 17: 36
        It is in the field of chronology that the stumbling block lies, about which the foreheads are beating here.
    2. +3
      22 December 2017 05: 36
      Quote: Gardamir
      Looking at how the story is being rewritten on the go, witnesses, which we ourselves were, but they tell us that everything is not so.

      What were you witnessing? TV show?
  23. +4
    21 December 2017 08: 30
    Quote: trampoline instructor
    And what scientific papers do you have, assistant?

    The question was removed from the language. I always thought that Alexander Samsonov is one person, and now the Samsonov collective alias is being revealed. Just kidding
    1. +8
      21 December 2017 09: 53
      "it turns out" Samsonov "collective alias. Just kidding" ///

      It's true. Collective alias. By style features
      and views - three people.
      1. +5
        21 December 2017 11: 52
        No no no! Remember, "Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels are not husband and wife, they are, in general, four different people!" (with)
        Therefore, Samsonov is two "completely different people"! And, most likely, unfamiliar with each other ...
        1. +3
          22 December 2017 08: 49
          And the Glory of the CPSU is not a person at all)))
  24. +3
    21 December 2017 08: 37
    Quote: kalibr
    Links, links to archeology data. I have a museum in Penza in the Zolotarevsky settlement. In it are a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia. Stirrups, saber crosshairs. During the excavation, broken skulls, characteristic pin-tops and much more were found. What does the author refer to? Such articles without links all the same as sandpaper sold instead of toilet paper!

    In Siberia, they recently found an ancient burial place in which, according to legend, the princess lay. So she was with blond hair of European appearance, but for some reason with Chinese jewelry, weapons and utensils. Have they and the Chinese visited there?
    1. +9
      21 December 2017 08: 52
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      In Siberia, they recently found an ancient burial place in which, according to legend, the princess lay. So she was with blond hair of European appearance, but for some reason with Chinese jewelry, weapons and utensils. Have they and the Chinese visited there?

      Do not watch REN TV Yes
    2. +2
      21 December 2017 10: 32
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      So she was with brown hair of European appearance,

      At that time there were a lot of such people in the steppe, Tamerlan was a red-haired Caucasoid, what is it? I myself saw red Turkmen.


      Quote: Mar. Tira
      Did the Chinese also visit there?

      Maybe. The Chinese are omnipresent. And also trade or mining.
    3. +5
      21 December 2017 11: 23
      Mar.Tirah Where are the links? Links where to the sources of this nonsense? Any ... Serious work does not write like that!
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 17: 40
        Well, look: "the opening of the tomb of Tamerlane," there is its reconstructed appearance.
        1. +2
          22 December 2017 20: 25
          You’re an eccentric, with the letter “M” (if you don’t understand something, it’s customary to communicate here with “You”!) Do you mean the reconstruction of Gerasimov? So there, that one, Urus !!! laughing
          1. +2
            22 December 2017 23: 29
            Well, I’m watching, a real Mongol. Yes, even red-bearded Yes
  25. +12
    21 December 2017 09: 04
    To paraphrase the author ...
    At the same time, we must remember that all sorts of alternative visions - such as the story from Fomenko-Nosovsky, the linguist Zadornov-Chudinov and other dolbloslavie from Akhinevich, are hidden, but very actively supported and financed ultimately by the Soros Foundation, in order to completely discredit Russian science .
    Let us congratulate Alexander Samsonov on another small victory in this dubious field.
    1. +1
      27 December 2017 01: 43
      Russian science from Iga, which in the 91st began again.
  26. +2
    21 December 2017 09: 19
    And all the same, fun, what a discus is. There are even reinforced concrete arguments I believe, I do not believe. And there must be arguments whether there are facts or not, it is worth thinking about them, analyzing them. Plus it is surprising how people who see how they rewrite history before our eyes, sacredly believe that they did not do this before. And now excuse me, even if we take official science, what I was taught about the yoke in 1985 is fundamentally different from what the historians now say.
    1. +5
      21 December 2017 09: 29
      I’ll tell you more, what the schools are teaching now is also slightly different from what historians are talking about. Because school books with the novelty of scientific knowledge never shone, frankly.
      As a result, we have the fact that almost all supporters of alternative politics on official history judge solely on their own knowledge obtained in school in the 6-7th grade.
      1. +1
        22 December 2017 00: 45
        I read more on the history of books than some have seen. please tell me, what am I wrong when I consider the Arctic theory correct?
        behind me are linguistics, genetics, archeology, personal travel experience.
        and what is behind you? textbooks edited by pro-western historical shobla?
        books whose scientific credibility is not greater than that of Fomenko (I don’t like this citizen either, geeks and freaks are everywhere)?
        1. +1
          22 December 2017 09: 28
          Do not share the link to genetics in favor of the Arctic theory? Are you not talking about Zhokhovskaya parking for an hour?
          1. +1
            22 December 2017 21: 17
            read if only where haplogroup r1 came from
            1. +1
              25 December 2017 20: 58
              And what author do you propose to read? Klesov or Balanovsky?
    2. +4
      21 December 2017 17: 22
      Quote: zyzx
      And excuse me, even if you take the official science, what I was taught about the yoke in 1985 is fundamentally different from what historians are saying now.

      Russian historians have always had a different view of the Mongol-Tatar invasion, but no one has ever denied the fact of the invasion and the yoke.
      And what to deny if there are numerous written sources, archaeological finds.
  27. +15
    21 December 2017 09: 20
    A merry mishmash from Bushkov, Fomenko and unknown mushrooms with exotic grass.
    1. +13
      21 December 2017 10: 00
      And here is the quintessence of the article:

      "What Western fake historians call the Great Empire of Genghis Khan,
      was actually the Great Empire of the Rus

      Interestingly, in China, modern Chinese pseudo-nationalist nationalists have come to
      similar conclusions (with a few exceptions smile ):

      "What Turkic fake historians call the Great Empire of Genghis Khan,
      was actually the Great Empire of the Chinese "
      1. +2
        21 December 2017 10: 38
        Quote: voyaka uh
        "What the Turkish fake historians call the Great Empire of Genghis Khan was actually the Great Empire of the Chinese."

        And what, there is some sense in this: After all, the term "China" is of Russian-speaking origin, and north of the Great Wall of China in those days, the brown-haired, blue-eyed Mughal Russians, sometimes called Scythians (cattle breeders), continued to live. Another thing is that at this moment the Mongoloid inhabitants of southern China have already driven them out of the territory and north of the Chinese wall. But when did all this happen? I think that we obviously won’t get a quick answer to this question, there are clearly political reasons for this, so we’ll forget about this topic for now. By the way: "Türks" is an ethnic group, or a linguistic group? After all, Germans, Ashkenazis, Japanese, and many other peoples speak precisely the languages ​​belonging to the common Turkic language group. To the riddle, how to enlighten her.
        1. +10
          21 December 2017 11: 22
          Quote: venaya
          After all, the term "China" is of Russian origin

          laughing Cool you, comrade!
          China is the Turkic name of the Manchu people of Khitan! wink
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 11: 50
            Quote: Serg65
            China is the Turkic name of the Manchu people of Khitan!

            So, in your opinion, the Rusichs of Moscow invited the Manjurs to triple Kitai Gorod to Moscow? Cool you comrade! By the way, around Kiev, the remains of the "Chinese walls" are still preserved, there are many of them and villages with the term "China" are still preserved. But the trouble is, these walls were built that way 1300 years earlier than the early constructions of the Great Wall of China. "Apparently these same Manjurians from the Great Russian Plain moved to the north of modern China, too, just to build similar walls there. Did I understand you correctly?
            1. +7
              21 December 2017 12: 00
              Quote: venaya
              So, in your opinion, the Rusichs of Moscow invited the Manjurs to triple Kitai Gorod to Moscow?

              what Have you carefully read what I wrote?
              Quote: Serg65
              it Turkic the name of the Manchu people

              Well, the rest is a figment of your fantasies !!!
              To blame hi
              1. +2
                22 December 2017 00: 49
                But how did the Turks get to Manchuria? and then the Tochars were Europodes, the Mongols were Mongoloids, and the Türks are Türks, black and nosy.
                and by the way, Manchuria was located in the North, but still the East of China.
          2. +2
            22 December 2017 17: 48
            In fact, the "Chinese" can be translated as "those beyond the wall." "Skit", "whale" - a bunch of poles used to build fortifications feel
            1. +1
              22 December 2017 20: 03
              Quote: Nulgorod
              in fact, the Chinese can be translated as those beyond the wall. "Skit", "whale" - a bunch of poles used to build fortifications

              What does this have to do with the Han people and their state - China?
              1. +2
                22 December 2017 20: 28
                No idea. But to China Town - direct.
        2. +6
          21 December 2017 11: 51
          "After all, the term" China "is of Russian-language origin" ////

          So Antarctica is Russian-speaking, which is really something to hide. Penguins, as it turned out recently,
          zoological historians are the descendants of the oldest Scythian-Siberian-Aryan-Rus. They once
          on ships sailed on ships to this continent, when it was not yet completely covered
          ice. Then the living conditions changed: ice, wild cold. They gradually dwindled, overgrown with down, there was nothing to eat - learned to dive, eat fish. Not dead, survived, in short.
          And some words are not forgotten. And Soviet researchers in the 50s - 70s did not
          Familiar phrases in the penguin's hubbub seemed in vain.
          This page of the history of Scythian-Siberian Rus is still waiting for its researchers and historical truth.
          And, of course, the Anglo-Saxons (Australia - the country of convicts - and Argentina - Catholics - nearby) try to hide it from ordinary people.

          (just do not treat my post as a national insult. Replace, if you want, "Siberian-Aryan-Rus" with "ancient-great-Jews" - the meaning of the post will not change. The absurdity of pseudo-history is always absurd fellow )
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 12: 11
            Quote: voyaka uh
            (just do not treat my post as a national insult ..

            So what, China town in Moscow also not Russian-speaking origin? Are there too many “accidents” in this world, are they?
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 12: 47
              I'm not really trying to convince you. You dive too deep
              into a linguistic pool of similar words from different language groups.
              From the fact that in many countries, the official language is English,
              It does NOT follow that the inhabitants of these countries are English. It does NOT even follow that
              these people are white, or even the Indo-European race.
              This fully applies to ancient (and ancient) history.
              The method is incorrect in principle. hi
            2. +8
              21 December 2017 13: 02
              Quote: venaya
              And what, Kitay-Gorod in Moscow is also not of Russian-speaking origin?

              laughing Why not Russian? Very Russian! China Town is what? This settlement between the walls and the name received from the Old Slavonic word CHINA i.e Wattle wink
              1. 0
                25 December 2017 16: 57
                Yes, there is one wormhole.
                Not a fact, of course, but the version deserves to be voiced.
                Moscow is very similar to Mosque
                And in Moscow (Mosque) there is Kitab.
                Kitab - Holy Scripture in Islam.
                Well, or just a "Book".
                That is a place where scribes or just literate people live.
                Or maybe where the "people of the book" live.
                The question is what?
          2. +4
            21 December 2017 12: 18
            Penguins, as it turned out recently, are zoological historians - the descendants of the oldest Scythian-Siberian-Aryan-Rus. They once sailed aboard ships to this continent, when it was not all covered with ice. Then the living conditions changed: ice, wild cold. They gradually dwindled, overgrown with down, there was nothing to eat - learned to dive, eat fish. Not dead, survived, in short. And some words are not forgotten. And the Soviet researchers in the 50-70-years did not seem in vain familiar phrases in the penguin homon.


            "just do not interpret my post as a national insult," it's just a joke smile
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 12: 24
              I’ll complain about you at Sport Lotto! am
              1. +2
                21 December 2017 12: 33
                I’ll complain about you at Sport Lotto!
                crying crying crying
                ??
                1. +4
                  21 December 2017 14: 57
                  About the complaints! wink the complaint of apologists of pseudo-history against criticism looks like this:
                  1. +1
                    21 December 2017 15: 18
                    And the pseudo-historians themselves, right ?:
          3. +1
            27 December 2017 01: 51
            There were no ancient Jews. Hebrew-Eurei-Aurei gold-dependent united by the Rothschilds with comrades in the 17th century approximately. Negroids E, Middle Eastern J, Aryan Levites, crime from these genera gathered under the golden handles of John.
        3. +2
          21 December 2017 17: 26
          Quote: venaya
          After all, Germans, Ashkenazi, Japanese, and many other nations speak precisely the languages ​​belonging to the common Turkic language group

          The Germans and Japanese, the Türks ... get hurt .... it's just enchanting ...
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 17: 52
            Quote: merlin
            The Germans and Japanese - the Turks ... hurt themselves ....

            Exactly. and I write the same thing about it. Well, what relation to the used language can an ethnicity relate? After all, any ethnos can be forced into tyranny to speak the language of the invaders, which has already happened on the territory of almost half of the so-called "Europe". The same "Prussians" (former Rus) now speak not only a foreign language, but the language of a foreign language group, that is, the Western dialect of Turkic languages. A similar situation with the current "Japanese", they recently captured these islands, previously belonged to the Quince tribes, all the names there are translated only from the Quince’s indigenous language, ethnically refer to southern Chinese, and now use the eastern dialect of Turkic languages. Do you think anyone is able to figure out such a mess without refueling, I think it's quite complicated. Hence your remark about "enchanting ..." - sti. What to do - the bitter truth is more expensive than private emotions.
            1. 0
              22 December 2017 10: 29
              Quote: venaya
              Exactly. and I write the same thing about it.

              Not the same but mixed everything into porridge. So it turns out, sorry, nonsense.
              If you are talking about "Türks" as an "ethnos", then you need to remember that the word "nation" is actually a synonym for the word "ethnos" in Russian: from this position, what can be common between Germans and Japanese? They have different languages, culture, management, territory of residence, self-awareness, appearance, and finally, mentality.
              If you talk about "Türks" as a "language", or rather, if you talk about Türkic languages, then again by: except for (maybe!) A couple of Türkisms in Japanese and German, there are no more Türkic languages ​​there.
              Only a couple of borrowings still do not say anything - language is not only vocabulary, but also grammar, which you do not pay attention to at all, despite the fact that I wrote to you about this a year ago.
              Yes, one can argue and discuss about the Japanese language whether it belongs to the Altai language group (the Turkic languages ​​also belong to this group), but assigning it to the Turkic languages ​​is the same as trying to pull an owl on a globe.
              German belongs to the Indo-European languages. In its morphological structure, it is generally inflectional! What does he have in common with the Turkic languages ​​?! NOTHING!
        4. +2
          26 December 2017 23: 13
          Quote: venaya
          After all, the term "China" is of Russian origin

          and also, china city, was in almost every major city of that time! and artisans lived there! and when they say that the Chinese discovered the gunpowder, then this expression does not apply to the chinoz, it was invented by artisans from the Chinese city
    2. +1
      23 December 2017 18: 02
      The most correct comment on the article. It is only a pity that young brains are littered with such garbage.
  28. +9
    21 December 2017 09: 41
    I already thought that ukroistoriki already has a bottom, but even it can be broken.
    1. +1
      22 December 2017 00: 52
      Ukrohistorics are just one of those who were created by the British, and their history is deliberately distorted, the British acted the same way with the Third Reich, they created it, and intentionally created the whole ideology of the Germans. and American bankers sponsored the whole thing (by the way, do you know who they were by nationality?).
      but this article is correct, at least compare the names of rivers and toponyms in Siberia and the Urals with Indian mythology, you will become stiff when you really dig it out.
  29. +12
    21 December 2017 09: 50
    Beginning of the article:
    "780 years ago, on the night of December 20-21, 1237, Batu’s troops stormed Ryazan.
    The "Tatar-Mongol invasion" began

    And rightly so:

    "780 years ago, on the night of December 20-21, 1237, Batu’s troops stormed Ryazan.
    The invasion of Scythian-Siberian Rus on Ryazan Rus began "

    Ryazan Rus simply did not realize that their own people came to them, and therefore did not open
    hospitably the gate.

    Samsonov "flew" ... negative
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 12: 55
      Quote: voyaka uh
      And rightly so:
      "780 years ago, on the night of December 20-21, 1237, Batu’s troops stormed Ryazan.
      The invasion of Scythian-Siberian Rus on Ryazan Rus began "

      Bggg ... for some reason I immediately remembered a scene from Shirley-Myrli:
      - This is our purely Jewish Russian showdown. Goyam the rest does not understand.
      1. +7
        21 December 2017 14: 15
        The siege and death of Ryazan - confirmed and certainly heroic and tragic
        episode of the story. I do not laugh at it.
        But the article is very absurd. Most commentators agree on this.
        1. +3
          21 December 2017 15: 00
          But the article is very absurd.

          Already the film was shot, they say, no less absurd, and immediately attributed to fantasy. Yes, I'm talking about Kondratia-Kolovratiya. hi
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 18: 07
            Quote: Mikado
            But the article is very absurd.

            they have already shot the film, they say, no less absurd, and immediately attributed to fantasy. Yes, I'm talking about Kondratia-Kolovratiya. hi

            You will still be “smeyatstso”, but the “Yandex Poster” positions the “this film” as historical.
            1. +3
              21 December 2017 18: 08
              I already had vague suspicions at the stage of advertising showing that it look not worth it ... what
            2. +4
              21 December 2017 18: 09
              Quote: Freeman
              “Yandex Poster” positions “this film” as historical.

              I watched it. The Hollywood craft with repercussions from "Three hundred Spartans" is historically very, very approximate. The selection of actors is horrifying.
            3. +3
              22 December 2017 03: 04
              So this "masterpiece" is the complete historical nonsense in the cube. The only thing that is well worked out there is armor, since the creators of this slag had the intelligence to contact the reenactors, but did not have the intelligence to hire a historical consultant who would limit the flow of their schizophrenia.
    2. +1
      21 December 2017 18: 11
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Beginning of the article:
      "780 years ago, on the night of December 20-21, 1237, Batu’s troops stormed Ryazan.
      The "Tatar-Mongol invasion" began

      And rightly so:

      "780 years ago, on the night of December 20-21, 1237, Batu’s troops stormed Ryazan.
      The invasion of Scythian-Siberian Rus on Ryazan Rus began "

      Ryazan Rus simply did not realize that their own people came to them, and therefore did not open
      hospitably the gate.


      Samsonov "flew" ... negative

      Right! I even saw a “movie” about it. laughing
  30. +1
    21 December 2017 09: 55
    ABOUT! like. This is something, inexplicable stupidity.
  31. +4
    21 December 2017 10: 01
    It looks like a story "from Zadornov," the land to him ...
  32. +6
    21 December 2017 10: 02
    I am only interested in what these ... hmm, fabrications are based on? Let's say we got folders from Rome our version of the story. But what did the historians and archaeologists of the Soviet era do? They did not study archaeological sites, did not excavate because they were Illuminati? In short, I can’t approach this article critically, there’s nothing to criticize, the author’s fantasies do not count. Where are links to documents, archaeological finds, anthropological or philological studies?
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 13: 54
      They wrote RUSSIAN ARCHEOLOGY in 20 volumes, but the authors of these opuses, of course, did not read it.
    2. +1
      22 December 2017 00: 54
      and you read where the communist movement came from, who stood and its origins and understand that the story ended since the Romanovs, and the Soviet received ideology in the same place as the Romanovs (in the West, if you do not believe, read the revelations of some historians about how everyone who is pressed there departs from the allowed line).
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 07: 06
        here, I won’t even argue. People who arrange a revolution in history, in a single head (their own), is a separate topic. But I have not heard where in this article is the scientific basis? Or "I like this version of the story more" is a sufficient argument?
        1. +1
          22 December 2017 20: 39
          in these articles, the scientific base is based on genetics (haplogroups R1, its sub-branches a and b), linguistics (read about Sanskrit), geography and related sciences (read the names of rivers and place names in the Urals, Siberia and compare with Indian mythology, if you overpower).
          and what is the nonsense in your head based on? On a read textbook, who wrote that those about history knew only what they were ordered to know?
          1. +2
            23 December 2017 08: 57
            Hmm, go there I don’t know where, read it, I don’t know what. Did you understand your link correctly? There are no references to these "studies" in the article; I did not find them either.
            I am not a philologist, I just live in Siberia. Hydronyms ("the name of the rivers" for you to understand) here usually has nothing with the Russian language.
            Well, okay, I could not stand it and ask the author of this article and his advocates a question. Where is the logic? The Mongols could not create an empire because there were few of them, they were gray and wretched, and Mongolia could not feed so many people to create a huge army out of them. Not mistaken with the arguments? Attention is now a question. In Siberia in the 13th century there were megacities, tens of millions of people and a mild subtropical climate due to which residents took 2 crops a year?
            And yes, who took the genetic material for your research?
    3. +1
      27 December 2017 01: 54
      The Jewish Igo has long been going on. Including the USSR his craft. When the people gathered to understand, they made perestroika.
  33. +1
    21 December 2017 10: 20
    Quote: forty-eighth
    And how then did a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, were able to destroy the Western Roman Empire, which had factors (the term from the article, I would use the word "sign") great empires and powers?

    Invalid example. The Germans compared to the Mongols are like highly developed aliens compared to earthlings. The Germans had a fairly high culture, well-developed crafts (including weapons). So it’s incorrect.
  34. +4
    21 December 2017 10: 24
    Quote: antivirus
    The Russian compound bow was much more powerful and long-range than the famous English bow.

    - and even the smell from the home is more complicated, "more diverse."
    REMINDS THE ODOR OF THE MOON DUST.
    therefore, the Vatican hid all pieces of lunar soil in secret safes in the United States

    What confused you? Compound bows were already in Russia in the 12th century. But a compound bow of. history justifies the Mongol conquest, considering it a unique weapon of the time. But this is bad luck. for example, in Russia they were also. I think going to the museum of any more or less ancient city of Russia you will see it. At least I have one in Yaroslavl. With dating either 11 or 12 centuries.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 11: 43
      The bow itself has been known almost since the Stone Age. In any case, dates back to 2000 BC. Compound bows are also known since ancient times. In Russia they are also known from the first years of existence. Türks, Persians, used compound (composite bows) in the 5-6 centuries of our era.
      The main strength of that time, as already mentioned, was archery, and in order to learn how to shoot well enough, it took at least 20 years. Skirmish, not hand-to-hand combat, decided the fate of the battle. Persian arrows to the VI century. reached the heights of mastery and the bowstring was drawn not to the chest, but to the ear. The arrow flew 700 meters and, equipped with a well-hardened tip, pierced the shell.
      1. +5
        21 December 2017 12: 28
        Polovtsev, how did the people who brought the compound bow and introduced our ancestors to him, no one considered?
        Another point. Compound bow is the longest known. Given that it is difficult to get close to prey in the steppe, and as a consequence of this, it was invented by the peoples living in this landscape zone. The tribes who hunted near the forest and on the banks of the rivers, need, simply, did not have to invent something similar to him.
        1. +3
          21 December 2017 13: 28
          Quote: avva2012
          The tribes who hunted near the forest and on the banks of the rivers, need, simply, did not have to invent something similar to him.

          The taiga peoples had powerful composite bows made of wood. mainly birch, bird cherry and pine. Such bows even paid yasak to the treasury. along with furs. There is an interesting book on this subject: Weapons and Armor. Siberian weapons: from the Stone Age to the Middle Ages. Author: A.I.Soloviev
          1. 0
            21 December 2017 13: 35
            Thank you, be sure to find and read.
            How long were they? The distance in the forest for a shot is relatively small. On the other hand, it is remembered that self-arrows were set on the same sucker. A shot must be powerful to knock down such a beast.
            1. +1
              21 December 2017 14: 42
              Quote: avva2012
              A shot must be powerful to knock down such a beast.

              That's right. The bows were up to 2 meters long, they were hit with heavy arrows with a very wide tip, the distance in the forest was small, but the wound when shooting short was supposed to be serious, often they shot at a large predator. They even beat a tiger with a bow. The essence of the shooting was different from the steppe. A long-range aiming shot prevailed there, among foresters, often, a quick short-range shot, a kind of instinctive shooting.
              The contacts between the steppe and the taiga were wide, I’m sure that the same Khanty would not have blundered at long-range shooting
              1. +1
                21 December 2017 15: 30
                I think so, but unlikely, just like the Mongols. Nevertheless, the practice is centuries old.
              2. 0
                21 December 2017 17: 22
                The main advantage of composite onions compared to simple ones (that is, made from a single piece of wood) was that at a smaller size such a bow was much more powerful. In addition, composite bows were much more convenient if you had to shoot from a horse and possibly from the cart. Almost all modern Olympic bows are composite.

                Well, at least read Wikipedia or something ...
  35. +2
    21 December 2017 10: 26
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: Mar. Tira
    In Siberia, they recently found an ancient burial place in which, according to legend, the princess lay. So she was with blond hair of European appearance, but for some reason with Chinese jewelry, weapons and utensils. Have they and the Chinese visited there?

    Do not watch REN TV Yes

    Do you offer RTR to watch? I prefer to think and analyze the information itself. Even on Radio Liberty, and Rain.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 11: 21
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      Do you offer RTR to watch? I prefer to think and analyze the information itself. Even on Radio Liberty, and Rain.

      You can watch everything, but do not need to be taken seriously.
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 00: 56
        so you don’t take anything seriously along the way. even your life and your children?
        but how to analyze it is necessary in general all that you read. but what's the point? Or are you talking about comics?
  36. +1
    21 December 2017 10: 32
    sawing another historian. were not donkey as if he were present at the events and writes
  37. +8
    21 December 2017 10: 32
    The true face of the Mongol. Is not it?
    1. +11
      21 December 2017 10: 50
      1227-1502, not bad lived .....
      1. +3
        21 December 2017 11: 51
        Doctor, do you sit ???? Running to study the ancient Mongolian treatises on medicine! drinks
        1. +3
          21 December 2017 11: 58
          Everything has been studied for a long time, I am from this issue.
          1. +3
            21 December 2017 12: 37
            Advocate catotherapy? and promise to help me live forever? wink drinks
            Yes, our Doctor is in the second row in the center. laughing
            1. +3
              21 December 2017 12: 46
              Advocate catotherapy?

              Heartily! One of the most beautiful creatures in the world! Although I am allergic to their coat cryingbut they are not to blame.
              1. +2
                21 December 2017 12: 50
                get the sphinx Yes although I would not have started ... somehow .. "not that" what
                1. +3
                  21 December 2017 12: 58
                  Cornish Rex breed is not bad.
                  But it costs like a downed Boeing.
                  1. +4
                    21 December 2017 13: 28
                    I am an apologist for outback laughing although Maine Coons look funny, especially in size. With this, it’s not scary to go down the street on a dark night fellow
                    1. +1
                      21 December 2017 14: 08
                      These, already at a cost
                      Shuttle Challenger laughing
        2. +1
          21 December 2017 13: 50
          Two weeks ago, in the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation, a discussion was held on the topic of homeopathy. There were scientists, practicing doctors, people "on the right" and "left." Marked 49% of citizens of the Russian Federation use and the results are positive. It was suggested and it seemed accepted that homeopathy will be taught in medical schools as a regular discipline, and all practicing doctors will gradually be sent to retraining courses so that they know firsthand and know how to use. So ... a couple of years will pass and our doctor will be sent back at the desk to learn more about this.
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 14: 19
            So ... a couple of years will pass and our doctor will again be sent to the desk to learn more about this.

            Maybe it's easier for everyone to give out a cat? request wink
          2. +1
            21 December 2017 15: 32
            To teach a scientist, only to spoil. We, more and more in the old fashioned way, like this:
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 15: 35
              self portrait with a personal enema? laughing
              and this is how the Doctor looks during the struggle for communism and universal happinesslaughing
              1. +2
                21 December 2017 17: 39
                But what will end for those who lose:
            2. 0
              22 December 2017 06: 22
              Quote: kalibr There were scientists, practicing doctors, people "on the right" and "left." Marked 49% of citizens of the Russian Federation use and the results are positive.

              ps: quotes are not put there. It is necessary to write correctly, as follows: "scientists", "practicing doctors", people on the right and left spoke.
            3. +1
              27 December 2017 01: 56
              Why are Jews so drawn to these pictures?
    2. +3
      21 December 2017 13: 46
      Looks like our Bunshu ... (c). Those. on Alexander Nevsky (1221-1263)
    3. 0
      21 December 2017 19: 06
      Alone Today, 10:32 AM
      The true face of the Mongol. Is not it?

      avva2012 Today, 10:50 ↑
      1227-1502, not bad lived .....

      There is a small town in Turkey called Söğüt.
      The town is very tiny, but very important for the Turks. It is here that the Ottoman Empire is believed to have originated.
      The Turks built the Museum of Ertuğrul Gazi, and next to it - a small gallery of busts of almost all the founders of empires, which are currently known in the world, on which the years of the existence of these empires are knocked out.


      http://novosti333.ru/новости/основатели-всех-вели
      kih-empires-past-people-white-race /


      Batu Khan - Batur (Batu) Han - in Turkey it is customary to portray more as a Turk or a Ukrainian Cossack than as a “Tatar-Mongol”.
      http://old.redstar.ru/2010/02/25_02/5_07.html
  38. +1
    21 December 2017 10: 33
    Quote: parma
    Regarding the article, evidence can be found, evidence, arguments other than "the Mongoloids are too backward for such a campaign." This is at least racism

    This is called a critical approach. Representatives of the God-chosen people like to broadcast about racism about and without. For them, and in line, if they didn’t let them forward, then all are racists. Are you not one of them by chance?
  39. +2
    21 December 2017 10: 46
    Quote: cobalt
    Instead of writing articles, I suggest that the author come to our place in Vladimir, go to the Golden Gate, and look at the exposition of the assault of Vladimir by the Tatar-Mongolian army and communicate with local historians there, it may brighten up.

    You yourself how. Do you think this is normal? Is there a photo-video shooting there? This is just a fantasy on the topic. No more. But people like you, looking at such expositions, always keep this image in their heads. and it is not subject to doubt.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 11: 00
      Oh well, well, a person looked at the exposition, read history books, but we know that all this is garbage. Here invent a dick and believe in it, this is ours.
  40. +4
    21 December 2017 10: 48
    "The Horde is Rod, Rada, Tumen - darkness, the word khan comes from" kohan, kohan, "beloved, respected."
    Then I recalled the satirist- "linguist" M.Zadornov, his kingdom of heaven. Any nonsense can be made science-like "truth." All this is not serious, although readable.
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 14: 04
      If in the word "horde" to change the consonants in the middle, it turns out Odra (Oder) - the name of the river. The second option is very close to the word "gift." From it Krasnodar, Ekaterinodar, Svetlodar ("Svetlodar arc" in the Donbass). There are rivers: Amu-Daria, Syr-Daria, Dauria.
  41. +4
    21 December 2017 11: 06
    Samsonov’s problem, as well as that of most alternative experts, is that, pointing to inconsistencies and absurdities of the official history on some issues, they immediately build a monstrous theory that does not withstand absolutely no criticism. As a result of "their vision" of the subject of discussion, they generally discredit their fabrications.
    if briefly on the topic, then I am also of the opinion that the yoke, and indeed the Mongol Tatars, did not exist. I already voiced my version. At first glance, he is also quite bold, if not insane, but I do not declare his categoricalness.
    now straight thesis. The only written source about the Mongols is written for some reason in Chinese.
    Archaeological finds themselves are ambiguous. Here is what they prove. Suppose we found a cultural layer in which there are a lot of bones, traces of fire, traces of destruction. OK. We determined the dating. OK. what's next? Then they took and attributed this to the Mongol-Tatars. Indeed, "history is the time of their campaign." But initially, they found only bones and ashes. If the "chronicle lies," then archaeologists unwittingly play along.
    Further. where did the Mongols have so much iron for arming their huge army. Blacksmithing and metallurgy were completely undeveloped. Where did it all come from then? Out of trade? What was it to trade with? Kizyaki? No answer.
    What did horses and people eat in winter? There’s only one nonsense. then the horses are unique, then the riders.
    Russia paid a way out. OK. The Russians went to Byzantium more than once, and she also paid them. Does this mean the conquest of Byzantium? Of course not.
    How the story is being written we see. right here and right now. She is frankly distorted. And this is in the age of the Internet, libraries and television. Examples are well known to everyone. I will not repeat.
    A very interesting example of rewriting her unas. Kazan was 1995 years old until 500. after 1995, Kazan became 1000. it’s just that they threw themselves for 500 years and are not buzzing. For whose money was this banquet I think no need to explain.
    The fact that something happened in the 13th century is undoubtedly, but to say that it was an invasion of the wild, dirty, with an extremely low social model of nomads is an obvious bust.
    Yes. the term yoke was coined by the Pole in the 15-16th century. Rather, one was invented, and the other introduced into the turnover, let’s say.
    The trouble with the Mongol-Tatar invasion and the subsequent yoke is that if you try to consider a single issue from a critical point of view, absolutely no one can withstand such criticism. No one. There is no adequate explanation for this event. But we continue to blow in our ears.
    1. 0
      22 December 2017 14: 07
      There is no adequate explanation for this event.
      1. +1
        22 December 2017 14: 50
        But after all events took place and there were reasons. And what adequate explanation do you see for modern events in modern Ukraine (parts of historical Russia and possibly its cradle), when today the descendants of the Rus kill other descendants of the Rus? Today we say that there is an external factor (external control), as during the civil war (1918-1920) (support from outside one of the parties), but after the abdication of the king (1917), a "parade of sovereignties" arose as well as the collapse of the USSR. But unless before the outbreak of strife in Russia in 1237, there was no fall of Constantinople in 1204 under the influence of the same Russia. If the kingdom fell, then, apparently, the king was gone. Is there no reason for claims to the title of king. Can it not be that there are those who disagree with new claims. If Ivan IV of Tsar received the title of Tsar after centuries, then the significance of this title has been preserved. The question remains: what outraged Russia and she went against the king in Constantinople. If we admit that Constantinople and Jerusalem were in one place, and the reprisal against Jesus Christ was in 1185, then it becomes clear why they came up with the myth of the Tatar-Mongol. In addition, with the help of mathematics and astronomy, we must admit that Julius Caesar, the author of the Julian calendar, lived in the 12th century, that is, 400 years before the Gregorian calendar. But at the same time, the story of “ancient” Rome in modern Italy (formed in the 19th century) becomes a fake that arose during the struggle with the third Rome (Moscow) for the right to bear the title of Rome (essentially Constantinople).
        1. 0
          25 December 2017 09: 26
          You rave, the seizure of the city, as a rule, ended with a certain number of raped girls and an agreement between the warring parties on payments, etc. Complete liquidation is extremely rare, and this is not feudal at all. The capture of Kazan in the 1552 year was one of the rare examples when they simply landed their governor, and before that, everything ended with another contract for N years. They went to Constantinople to rob. So everyone did then. And the king is there, well, Byzantium then was the only civilized country. And this, in particular, meant that there was something to rob.

          Having adopted the title of tsar, Ivan the Terrible very seriously declared himself at the time.

          Ukraine is definitely not the cradle of Russia, and Kiev has become a relative backwater even before the Mongols. It lost its meaning as soon as the Dnieper ceased to be an extremely important trade route.

          And do not read Fomenko, harmful to the brain.
    2. 0
      22 December 2017 14: 45
      Eh hehe! Again, damn it, some stereotypes (!) ... only with a minus sign! Yes there was no huge army! Accordingly, everything else was blown up on an appropriate scale! Did you like to watch a movie about Indians? All Indians with iron pieces: knives, tomahawks, arrowheads and, even, guns ... and who saw the Native American iron smelters?
  42. +15
    21 December 2017 11: 13
    Great article! More to such! Immediately explains and puts everything in its place. According to doctors, such articles are especially useful to read in the autumn-spring period. It is only a pity that the author forgot to mention the inhabitants of the Red Planet, the Martians, who played a fateful role in all these matters, who in the 15th century made a deal with the West to discredit the great civilization of super-duper-Scythian-Russes, which the Martians were very afraid of seeing in them their competitor in space exploration. Martians specially flew to Earth on their high-tech aluminum plates to destroy and fake historical chronicles. After all, it is clear that such a titanic work alone could not be done by the backward and illiterate medieval West ... At the end of their dirty deed, as a sign of victory in their ideological sabotage, the Martians erected huge pyramids in Egypt and Mexico and returned to their historical homeland. I hope that in the promised continuation of the article, the author will certainly cover this important topic for all of us.
    1. +16
      21 December 2017 12: 48
      Quote: alebor
      It is only a pity that the author forgot to mention the inhabitants of the Red Planet, Martians, who played a fateful role in all these matters, who in the XNUMXth century made a deal with the West to discredit the great civilization of super-duper-Scythian-Russes, which the Martians were very afraid of seeing in them their competitor in space exploration.

      But do not distort the story! The inhabitants of Venus were engaged in discrediting the Rus, as they were more prone to intrigue. And the inhabitants of Mars have always preferred direct action - after all, it was they who created the party of the Bolsheviks and launched a revolution. smile
      1. +6
        21 December 2017 17: 38
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Quote: alebor
        It is a pity that the author forgot to mention the Martians, who played a fateful role in all these matters,

        But do not distort the story!

        You are both wrong. There are proven facts that reptilians from the planet Nibiru are to blame!
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 17: 51
          that reptiles from the planet Nibiru are to blame!

          If you are talking about Reptiloid Dmitry (a member of the community), then he lives in St. Petersburg wink how much he is guilty, I did not ask him drinks
          1. +3
            22 December 2017 11: 43
            Quote: Mikado
            that reptiles from the planet Nibiru are to blame!

            If you are talking about Reptiloid-Dmitry (a member of the community), then he lives in St. Petersburg ...

            No. Dmitry he is ours, Russian reptiloid! I'm talking about others at all. You probably know that the "Slavic-Aryans" built the pyramids in Egypt 15 thousand years ago. Well, all sorts of Egypt and in those days were considered resorts. And everything would be fine, but then those who flew in from Nibiru said they also want to relax in Egypt. Well, ours were clearly sent, then the war started. Along the way, the Annunaki reptilians brought people to Babylon. So they became Catholics who rewrote our entire history ... God, what nonsense I write ...
            1. +5
              22 December 2017 11: 57
              God, what nonsense am I writing ...

              good and some people believe in such nonsense! drinks
  43. +5
    21 December 2017 11: 15
    Quote: venaya
    So these tips can not give enough reason to be unambiguously defined as exclusively "Mongolian".

    Whose opinion is this? Academic degree, title, number of publications in refereed publications?
  44. +2
    21 December 2017 11: 21
    Again this hackneyed theory .... the term Mongol-Tatars is certainly far-fetched, but the invasion of Russia was, and this is confirmed by archeology .... but most likely there really were not Mongols in their pure form, but a certain conglomerate of Turkic peoples.
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 13: 43
      And why is it necessarily Turkic? And suppose the version that Batu Khan is Alexander Nevsky ... Compare the years of life .. Nevsky’s biography after 1242 look .. Where Batu was at that time .. And just compare different periods .. As assumptions ...
      Z.Y. this is not my notion. This is the whole version there is one.
      1. +3
        21 December 2017 14: 12
        A. Bushkov "Russia, which was not," either the third, or the fourth part. He writes, he's funny.
      2. +10
        21 December 2017 16: 37
        "And suppose the version that Batu Khan is Alexander Nevsky ... Compare the years of life .." ////

        Ohhh! This is a real find: compare the years of life and assume on this basis that
        two historical figures - one and the same person!

        Example: Alexander of Macedon and the Persian king Darius.
        Lived at the same time? - At one!
        Were both great commanders and kings? - There were both!
        Therefore (logical): it was the same person. Just described differently
        two different peoples - Greeks and Persians fellow laughing .
        1. +7
          21 December 2017 18: 18
          Bullshit! According to Fomenko, Caesar and Cleopatra, this is one person wassat
          1. +2
            22 December 2017 17: 56
            This is in which book, tell me?
  45. +6
    21 December 2017 11: 27
    The author does not notice how he rewrites history. Ignoring any facts. Interestingly, these Russo-Siberians came to Indochina and were going to conquer Japan? Or Russo-Siberian warriors founded the empire of Ilkhanov? Was Khulagu-khan (grandson of Genghis Khan) a native of Siberia or the Urals? And the famous "iron chrome"? It would be nice for the author to look at the dictionary of foreign words in Russian. There are thousands of Turkic words. And compound bows were used by nomads (and Persians) long before the development of northeastern Russia. It is interesting to read the description of the battle of Herat. When the equestrian archers of the Persians defeated the army of Turkuts. And this is the 6th century.
    About the material base. I wonder how the poor Bedouins of Arabia shook the whole world so for a hundred years that they were stopped with great difficulty under the walls of Paris (the battle of Poitiers).
    For some reason, no one notices the enormous significance of the idea. Or as ideologies say now. Christ had 12 followers, Hitler had a membership card number 7, Muhammad at first went well if fifty of his admirers. Passionarity is just what drives whole nations. And economically backward victories over powerful empires.
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 14: 00
      Quote: Bakht
      ..this Russo-Siberians reached Indochina and were going to conquer Japan? .. And compound bows were used by nomads (and the Persians) long before the development of northeastern Russia.

      Interesting you write here. It is who specifically conquered Japan, because until the XNUMXth century, representatives of the tribe still lived on Hokkaido Ainu! According to their epos, they lived there for 13 millennia, possibly less. So who specifically conquered Japan, because when the Cossacks met with representatives of the Ainu tribe, they did not find any differences with themselves and wrote them down as Russian Russians. Yes, and in China Rus in bulk, not to mention India. I note that the Rus for quite some time moved even to the North. America, but more on that later. Pomeranian Kochi found millennium age in the area of ​​the Kuril Islands, there are such publications. Yes, and it’s not clear, because the Persian nomads founded the first largest empire more than a thousand years ago, but this is bad luck - their Farsi language is a dialect of Russian, genetics is also Russian, and the terms Persia and their Farsi language are also Russian-speaking. So I did not understand you why you do not attribute them to the southern Rus. Check this info, maybe then you will understand a lot from the article.
      1. +4
        21 December 2017 16: 29
        Interesting you write here. The word "going" did not read ?. I had in mind the legend of Kamikaze and the lost fleet of Kublai Khan.
        The fact that Farsi is a dialect of Russian is something .... Can you understand at least one farce?
        1. +1
          21 December 2017 19: 14
          Quote: Bakht
          Farsi - a dialect of Russian - this is something .... You can understand at least one farce?

          I think you are too emotional. I do not publish my opinion, on this account there are just scientific studies of specialists in this part of linguistics. For reference: The divergence of languages ​​and ethnic group occurred 4 thousand years ago in the region of "Tripoli Culture", the difference is 4 + 4 = 8 thousand years. root match = 36%. For example, "Sanskrit" also sold out 4 thousand years ago and there, it is only 3200 years old, therefore 4000 + 800 + 4800 years of discrepancy, hence the figure of 54% matches for root words. There is no need to invent anything here, everything has been investigated and calculated for a long time, emotions have nothing to do with it, some dry knowledge, and not obvious glitches of local dunno. They are only fooling around, so you should not pay any attention to them, rely solely on objective scientific research and nothing more. Listen to amateurs and crooks on these occasions should not be, only then everything falls into its natural place.
          1. +2
            21 December 2017 23: 53
            You do not really believe all scriptures. Let's say any ancient language. Do you know the pronunciation of sounds, say, Sanskrit? 8 years ago .... These are not shards, not tips and fossils. This is the sound ... This is the second signal. What are the "root words" 000 years ago known linguist? If a linguist says that he can speak ancient Aryan or Old Armenian or Sanskrit, feel free to spit in his shameless eyes. There is the concept of "dead languages." I am more than sure that no one on Earth will be able to understand either the ancient aria or the ancient Roman. Or are you sure that Greek is the language that Aristotle spoke?
            Do not make people laugh. Languages ​​evolve and penetrate each other. Are mixed. These are living substances. The language and inscriptions on the shards are two big differences. Archaeologists can read the records of the ancient Sumerians or Egyptians. But they cannot speak these languages.
            Language is what distinguishes homo sapiens from animals. This is the second signaling system and means the psychoneurological activity of a person. And it arises only (and only) in the social structures of society. And it depends solely on the social activities of a group of people. Farsi and Russian cannot be related languages. By the way, even assuming such a heresy, it is more likely that the Russian language is a Farsi transformation. At least by virtue of the antiquity of Persia.
            1. +1
              22 December 2017 01: 59
              Quote: Bakht
              .. Farsi and Russian cannot be related languages. By the way, even assuming such a heresy, it is more likely that the Russian language is a Farsi transformation. At least by virtue of the antiquity of Persia.

              The relatedness of these languages ​​was written at the beginning of the 2700th century, perhaps you missed it. Today, in view of the significant development of science, this version is fully confirmed and mathematical confirmation has been carried out. It seems that you are not at all familiar with such scientific research - hence the obvious lack of competence in this matter. I remind you: the language "Farsi" arose no earlier than 7526 years ago, while the emergence of the Russian language is estimated at tens of thousands of years. Only the last Russian calendar is XNUMX years old, naturally the Russian language itself is much older than the calendar. It seems that you never had to read such information at all, and yet you know about this a long time ago. Judging by your flag, you are not allowed to talk about the antiquity of any languages ​​that previously existed in Armenian. By the way. call Vahu a version of the antiquity of the Armenian language, I am very interested in this because I prefer to keep quiet about it. By the way, I regret that I gave you mathematical calculations of root word changes that were not prepared in linguistics, it seems you don’t even imagine the current level of development of this science, and you don’t have an idea about root words in languages, because these are questions of rather narrow given specialization, not every linguist generally understands what this is about, for most of them it is quite difficult. and about "Farsi", so in Russian it is translated as "in Russia", that is, in Russian, this was known for a long time but not by everyone. Yes, and “Persia” - stands for Pe-R (y) this, that is, all Russia with the prefix like Prussia, but not everyone knows about it, but it’s difficult to explain to you, because there is no basic preparation, about which I naturally sorry. So, before you teach others, try to understand the topic under discussion, otherwise it doesn’t work out well, the level of basic knowledge is very different. This is where your hints of a certain "heresy" come from, which is natural due to your lack of competence on the topic.
              1. +4
                22 December 2017 09: 42
                To answer your nonsense I do not see the point.
                A couple of comments on your words. I have every right to talk about any thing. Regardless of the flag.
                You have not presented any arguments and calculations here. So do not be fooled.
                Aging of history (that is, 10 thousand years of Russia) is a sign of inferiority. Precisely such a disease affects the ancient Ukrainians and the ancient Armenians.
                The only mistake I made was that I called it all "heresy." Your words are not heresy, but pure nonsense. And it must be studied in specialized clinics.
                1. +1
                  22 December 2017 10: 42
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Aging of history (that is, 10 thousand years of Russia) is a sign of inferiority.

                  I did not write about the fact that Russia is 10 thousand years old, I wrote about the fact that the last-day calendar is 7536 years old — it’s somewhat different. You here allowed me to write that the language of Persia Farsi is older than the language of the Russians, that is, the Russian language. Do you even know where the ancestors of the Persians came from? They arrived just from the territory of the Great Russian Plain and had in their stock just their own dialect of the Russian language. The Farsi language is not autochthonous for those places, it is of northern, Russian origin and it arrived there with experts in 2700 years ago, please study your history more closely. The fact that this language itself has even greater antiquity is so unbelievable to you: according to the data of just linguists studying this issue, it is at least 30-60 thousand years old or more. But why do you need science, because you live according to concepts formed not by any tales, you can’t say anything about the origin and time of origin of your own language. As I understand it, this is precisely the reason for your inferiority complex. Talking about someone else’s culture and history, please work hard at first to study this issue a little and not to show your own incompetence so clearly. I hope that you are not offended and will be able to cope with your nerves.
                  1. +2
                    22 December 2017 11: 09
                    Your nonsense to read does not make sense. Link and all. What you say is ABSOLUTELY illiterate.
                    By the way, 7536 years is the time from the creation of the world.
                    The Persians settled the Iranian plateau, coming from Central Asia just 10 years ago. Or something about it.
                    Neither ethnographic, nor linguistic, nor anthropological have any connection with Russia.
                    A huge number of languages ​​belong to the Indo-European group of languages. Even Latin. The history of Ancient Russia begins with Kiy, Schek and Horeb. And their sisters Lybed. And even then it was Kiev Kaganate, not Russia.
                    Without links, you can no longer write. There is no point in refuting a stubborn person.
                    1. +1
                      22 December 2017 12: 11
                      Quote: Bakht
                      The Persians settled the Iranian plateau, coming from Central Asia just 10 years ago. Or something about it.
                      Neither ethnographic, nor linguistic, nor anthropological have any connection with Russia.

                      Well, thank you, we begin to speak a language close to scientific: I repeat: Nomadic tribes later called Persians (or peer (y) themselves, I understand it more) appeared 2700 years ago, which is confirmed by historical research and also genealogical DNA. They belong to the haplogroup R1a1 of haplotype Z-93 whose age is 4000 years. Any doubts? Further: the Farsi language (in Russia, or in Russian) has a 36% coincidence in root words, which according to the laws of linguistics corresponds to the divergence of languages ​​over 4000 years - this is linguistics. Are you unfamiliar with this? Then why talk about things that are not familiar to you. If there is other data, then I ask you to at least report them, I do not even ask for links. So your fiction of 10000 years without any foundation, that is, has no scientific justification. In so. Here on the site even a film about Persia was, look, useful.
                      1. +3
                        22 December 2017 14: 09
                        There are still no links. There is nothing to talk about without links. Your personal opinion is not credibility for me.
                        Your problem is that you do not understand what language is, what writing is. and what are halogen groups. Although I also know what halogen groups are at the amateur level. But to refer to what you do not know is a bad trait. It is called aplomb.
                        By the way, the same thing is in linguistics. Do not know do not drive the wave. I don’t even want to talk about “pe-rusami” complete nonsense.
                      2. 0
                        25 December 2017 09: 29
                        4000 Years ago, there were neither Persians, nor Russes, who, apparently, were from Scandinavia in general and few in number against the background of the Slavic and Finno-Ugric populations.
                    2. +1
                      22 December 2017 17: 30
                      The history of Ancient Russia begins with Kiy, Schek and Horeb. And their sisters Lybed. And even then it was the Kiev Khanate, and not Russia.

                      Cue, cheek, bark, swan - three legendary brother and sister.
                      The meaning of the word legendary mean? On the "evidence" of the apologists of the Russian-Aryan theory, do you cite the "evidence" of the Persian-Aryan? Those Persians are as legendary as Cue, or rather, much more, because they are completely lost in the darkness of centuries.
                      1. +1
                        22 December 2017 22: 48
                        This is not for me. Of course the legendary. Kiev itself According to the legend created at the place of crossing Cherz Dnieper. There was operated by a senior - "Kiev Perevoz". As for the Persians, it’s definitely not for me. I’m just writing that the Persians and Rus are completely different peoples. Rusov (unlike the Slavs) I generally consider Normans. The creation of Russia must be attributed to the 6th century of our era. By the way, this is Russia, not Russia. A little different state.
                2. +1
                  23 December 2017 03: 43
                  Quote: Bakht I’m just writing that the Persians and Rus are completely different peoples. Rusov (unlike the Slavs) I generally consider Normans. The creation of Russia must be attributed to the 6 century of our era. By the way, this is Russia, not Russia. A little different state.

                  Absolutely agree. In such time intervals as 1000 and 10000 years, there are no Russians, not Persians, not Russia, not Persia. Yes, and Russia, at that time, this entity, as a state, is purely arbitrary. Too little data. It has been too long. Do not count your chickens before they are hatched. Since these civilizations survived, then our ancestors were great.
              2. +1
                27 December 2017 02: 01
                There was a common Aryan, but the dialects dispersed. Persia is not Perussia.
      2. +1
        21 December 2017 17: 16
        Quote: venaya
        after all, when the Cossacks met with representatives of the Ainu tribe, they did not find any differences with themselves and recorded them in Russian nationality.

        Alas, Ainu and Caucasians are completely different races, anthropology however. Cossacks distinguished them by thick beards, but the skulls, say, are very different.
    2. +6
      21 December 2017 16: 46
      for Bakht:
      [venaya] "their Farsi language is a dialect of Russian, genetics is also Russian, and the terms themselves
      Persia and their Farsi language are also Russian-speaking "////

      You do not mess with venaya, he writes everyone in Russia, under the comb. Better not to lean out.
      There is nothing to say about Jews: half of Israel speaks (or understands, or at least swears) in Russian - therefore, Jews are one of the southern (malicious) branches of the Rus. What is there to argue about?
      1. +4
        21 December 2017 16: 59
        There is nothing to say about Jews: half of Israel speaks (or understands, or at least swears) in Russian - therefore, Jews are one of the southern (malicious) branches of the Rus. What is there to argue about?

        about nothing. It's time to go drink vodka together good drinks
        1. +6
          21 December 2017 18: 23
          about nothing. It's time to go drink vodka together
          Exactly!
      2. +1
        21 December 2017 19: 00
        Quote: voyaka uh
        ..By the way, and “Palestine” half of Israel speak (or understand, or at least swear) in Russian - therefore, the Jews - this is one of the southern (malicious) branches of the Rus ..

        By the way, “Palestine” is also a Russian-language term, sort of like “Pale yellow”, scorched by the sun. And the Hebrew language also has some Russian roots, by the way I wrote about this and there are also studies on this subject. Everything in this World is tied up, many often simply cannot imagine to what extent, hence the numerous “surprises”.
  46. +3
    21 December 2017 11: 32
    Quote: avva2012
    You yourself cannot give any links, because as soon as you find the source of information by the link, it will immediately turn out that the quote is taken out of context and it turns out that K. Marx is no Russophobe.

    Doctor, what is the matter with you? Do you reproach me with an article by my colleague Martynova? Each has its own view and its own links. Her - not mine!
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 12: 40
      You signed up for it, because you presented, they say, please love and favor. So, either read the text before this and in the presentation, they say, I do not agree here, and here too, or acknowledge everything that is written by the author. ps agree, the matter is not only in this article. Anyone to take, completely your article, about the Soviet period and all of it will be stuffed with anti-Soviet with the same evidence as Martynova’s.
      1. +3
        21 December 2017 12: 47
        You signed up for it, because you presented, they say, please love and favor.

        indeed, one must be thinner. laughing In the last article I thrice covertly mentioned the Good Doctor, starting with the epigraph wink and he ... didn’t come ... crying
        1. +2
          21 December 2017 12: 53
          What an article. why dont know? belay
          1. +5
            21 December 2017 13: 41
            Ay yay! Doctor. love
            We will censure you. And they were waiting for you. wink
            1. +1
              21 December 2017 13: 48
              yes he read, read, it’s just that such a war broke out on the forum that he had nowhere to insert a word laughing drinks it was a Price-Eilau ... fellow
            2. +3
              21 December 2017 14: 15
              love love love Beautiful Elena, hello! No, I have excuses! Make the lady wait! How low I fell! What to earn, your forgiveness?
              1. +3
                21 December 2017 14: 21
                eh, tell me wink although in Belarus any fish (proved by Old Man), but I would recommend a fishing rod in an armful - and Baikal omul to it! good
                1. +2
                  21 December 2017 15: 02
                  Nikolay, omul fishing is prohibited recourse Moreover, the lady expressed her desire. wink
              2. +4
                21 December 2017 14: 22
                Good afternoon, Alexander! love
                Forgiveness? what
                Often please with your appearance on the site and comments. love I always enjoy reading love
                1. +3
                  21 December 2017 15: 00
                  Elena, you are very kind to me! Really, I did not deserve such leniency. Ready, I was to read all of Shpakovsky so that you forgive me, but no, no! I obey and obey. love
      2. +1
        21 December 2017 13: 39
        Where is it written "love"? And presented - does not mean subscribed. And why enter something into someone else's material? This is not always permissible and is not always convenient. And again ... what kind of anti-Soviet is it? Was there a "scoop"? Was! Collapsed in 1991 year in peace? Collapsed! What I mean, I do not understand. Between the 74 of the year was and fell apart the way from the station “BEEN” to the station “DECLINED” and that’s all. That's the whole "anti-Soviet", doctor. And then comes the study of the problem of why “Was”, why “Collapsed”, and how to make sure that our next station would not be “REPEAT”. Is it really so hard to understand for a person even with a higher medical education?
        1. +3
          21 December 2017 14: 57
          What is the highest medical, Vyacheslav Olegovich, diploma, friends fell in love. About anti-Soviet. I think, for those who are interested in your creativity in VO, another word will not come to mind. Your comments are worthy of a separate publication by the Soros Foundation.
          Those who have a question about Martynova’s article can read not only the article itself, but also your introduction / epigraph, as you like, call this part. I do not understand what, are you arguing or are you of a different opinion with the author?
          1. +1
            21 December 2017 16: 25
            I don’t argue, doctor, what are you talking about? On the contrary, I am grateful to you for mentioning Martynova’s article - maybe someone else will stop by. Moreover, I take every opportunity to talk with you in order to ... raise the rating of materials at VO, both my and my colleagues. , Last time - remember Mordvin 3 touched on the topic of "doctor's sausage". And right now I am writing a chapter in a textbook on online advertising in the comments on websites. And only with a mighty effort of will he resisted not to call the PR department of Family Sausages and not to offer them ... comments that they are of the highest quality today. I mean, what seems to you to be "masochism" ... is just a well-thought-out action to manage public opinion, which will be included as an example in the corresponding textbook. The main thing is that you don’t have to invent anything. And you remembered well about the Soros Foundation. Previously, I was Mammoth they got everything. And I replied that he gave me a grant for the book “Knights of the East”. So he helped me sell the rest of the print run. Therefore, I am very grateful to him. Do you also want to join product placement advertising? Thanks!
            You do not worry there will be more "anti-Soviet" materials. So get ready. Still talk. And about the station "Was", and about the station "Collapsed" and about the "Repetition". We will have a wonderful time, especially me, and maybe from separate comments I can really make a whole book. "History of Russia in Internet commentaries." It will be a bomb. With an epigraph from Boris about mobile ... eating fables .. With a dedication to you, the broom, some more. I’ll sit back in the summer. Until the summer, everything is planned.
            1. +4
              21 December 2017 18: 28
              Sincerely, glad to help you, do it. I don’t know how others do, but I have karma, apparently, like that. So charge your feathers with poison, we will continue to combine business with pleasure.
            2. +5
              21 December 2017 19: 03
              Quote: kalibr
              works - they work from the word.


              Then it’s not about your opuses, Shpakovsky. Unless, of course, plagiarism and graphomania are equated to work :)))

              Quote: kalibr
              and maybe from individual comments I really will be able to compose a whole book. "History of Russia in the Internet comments"


              that is, are you seriously sure that they will publish a collection of comments of varying degrees of competence to different nonsense and, moreover, will BUY? That is, HISTORY IN COMMENTS? The story now, it turns out, is not the results of sitting in the archives and working with documents of historians of the level of Dvurechensky, Kirpichnikov, Connolly, Oakshot, Maurice Keen, Bagrin, Isaev, Tarle, Pasholok - but COMMENTS ON ONLINE FORUM, copied by one graphoman of dubious competence ( any question, including the creation, existence and collapse of the USSR) and the irrepressible thirst for scribbling texts of gigantic volume? And will it be a BOMB? Seriously? That is, you have little to coagulate someone else’s comments for the sake of inflating your own ego (I published a whole book - the story in the comments), and probably arrived (the last question does not interest me, I don’t count other people's money), you still coagulate the ideas of another populist - Dmitry Puchkov? He at one time stamped for devoted followers who looked into his mouth similar little books (he copied his own articles and comments from his website), just like you, positioning yourself as an expert in various fields, but essentially nothing than not understanding. Same as you.
              1. +1
                22 December 2017 06: 30
                Quote: gorlumello Are you seriously sure that a collection of comments of varying degrees of competence to different nonsense will be published and, moreover, BUY? That is, HISTORY IN COMMENTS?

                Such a day, what can you do. Reading one nonsense sometimes leads to another.
              2. +1
                22 December 2017 07: 47
                "And will it be BOMB? Seriously?"
                Imagine. I remember Kozma Prutkov wrote this: Smart people discuss ideas, theories, normal people discuss events, fools discuss personalities.
                And then they will have room for discussion. You can laugh at the delusions of others and exalt yourself, but also - "they are not me!" The reader’s sense of self-worth will grow and, in addition, he will learn something! By the way, here is the doctor - he understands what’s what (see the comment above), that is, that it is necessary to meet the needs of the audience. And you are so smart, but don’t understand such basic things, ah-ah!
  47. +3
    21 December 2017 11: 43
    Quote: Alone
    finding archaeological finds under this very wall belonging to the Rus (according to anthropological analyzes),

    Link to the scientific journal where there is about it!
  48. +4
    21 December 2017 11: 57
    bullshit
    with alternative stories you better write books
  49. +4
    21 December 2017 12: 03
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Alone
    finding archaeological finds under this very wall belonging to the Rus (according to anthropological analyzes),

    Link to the scientific journal where there is about it!

    Do you seriously think that they will write about such finds (if they were of course)? I don’t think so. Everything that does not fit into the official history is not subject to publication. It is obvious.
    On Kulikovo field they found only a pair of tips and a piece of chain mail and rejoiced. Hooray we found the kulikovo field. The adequacy of this "archaeological confirmation" can only be assumed. Excavations of Sarai showed that this is not even an analogue of a village somewhere near Uryupinsk, but THIS is the very capital of the Golden Horde. This can be continued indefinitely. In any case, the "alternative" is always in a less advantageous position compared to the official. Not because he is smarter, but because there is an “apparatus” behind him, let's call him that.
    It was easiest to ridicule Fomenko, but never to give an adequate refutation or explanation of the inconsistencies that he found. I do not speak for Fomenko’s theory. exclusively for the strangeness of. history they found.
    so even if they find the grave of “that same Genghis Khan” and they find a tall fair-haired and blue-eyed, Caucasoid all this quietly go down on the brakes. After all, so many "official historians" received titles and degrees, as well as bread and butter, excitedly talking about the conquests of the great nomads. wink
    1. +6
      21 December 2017 13: 30
      “The easiest way was to ridicule Fomenko, but never to give an adequate refutation or explanation of the inconsistencies that he found,” - Danilevsky’s lecture course on the history of Russia, at least for the beginning, read, and then write this. Remember, nobody forbids anyone now. A few years ago, a certain historian wrote about the Fiume incident in a number of magazines and on the Web. Ph.D. etc. I found inconsistencies in his writings. Turned to the archive. I found documents that refute everything. Published an article in VIZH (VAK magazine) on Pravda. Ru and here in. Closed "glorious page of the Russian fleet." And no one said that it was not subject to publication. So if there is evidence, write what you want. And if you are not a historian, how can you say something that you don’t understand? So do not scare people with another "conspiracy theory" and academic degrees have nothing to do with it.
  50. +3
    21 December 2017 12: 11
    Quote: Razvedka_Boem
    What can I say .. Better without any comments ..)

    In-in ... There are Rybakov, there is Gumilyov ... And I don’t even know what to call it. Maybe before writing, it would not hurt to read the classics?
  51. +5
    21 December 2017 12: 17
    What a shame and utter game: However, there was an ancient Scythian-Siberian world of pagan Rus, inheriting the traditions of many millennia dating back to the times of the Aryans and Hyperboreans. These were the heirs of the most ancient northern civilization, which had its origins in the very origins of the white race. From the legendary Hyperborea, the Aryan world and Great Scythia
    Your mushrooms are heavy......
    Why post such nonsense on a respected resource, just for the sake of the seething of the original mass in the comments? Or is this level 100500 trolling?
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 13: 37
      No. It's learning history with a calculator in hand and a ledger in hand. Try it - you will discover a lot of interesting things. Even with official data. More precisely, simply by comparing them.
    2. +3
      21 December 2017 14: 47
      This is a pun about “game that brings light” (that brings light is a version)
      The inconsistencies in the official version of history are obvious to me personally.
      And this article is needed at least “just for the sake of the seething of the original mass in the comments.” I read the comments with great pleasure.
      But those living with blinders on their eyes should be a little more careful in their judgments.
      1. +2
        21 December 2017 16: 31
        Can you give me a list of books you have read, at least on the topic of military affairs of the Tatar-Mongols? Give it - and then call for caution.
    3. +2
      22 December 2017 00: 59
      But the thought never occurred to you - what if they are right, and not me?
  52. +12
    21 December 2017 12: 17
    Thanks to the author for the article. I woke up and my mood was lifted in the morning, I laughed for a long time. I thought only proto-Ukrs were capable of this. No, no.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 14: 57
      Shalom?! - Goodbye :).
      PS, but the “proto-Ukrainians” are, as it were, more ancient than the people of the biblical nationality (what year is yours according to your chronology and what is ours (Slavs) from S.M.Z.H -?). And in the absence of carefully erased facts, they are forced to speculate (as, apparently, the author).
  53. +3
    21 December 2017 12: 23
    Quote: venaya
    Quote: Razvedka_Boem
    What can I say ..

    We must say honestly and bluntly: This author’s article is the best in his series of articles on this topic.. If you have doubts about the essence of the article, then explain your position on fragments that are not clear to you. The article is written extremely briefly but very richly, many readers may have some ambiguities in the presentation of the material. Want to understand in more detail - we will help!

    Here doctors alone will help the author, and doctors specializing in the White-Slavic-Siberian race....
  54. 0
    21 December 2017 12: 24
    A very controversial theory...I read about it. But he has the right to life and research!
  55. The comment was deleted.
  56. +1
    21 December 2017 12: 26
    Quote: Shahno
    Thanks to the author for the article. I woke up and my mood was lifted in the morning, I laughed for a long time. I thought only proto-Ukrs were capable of this. No, no.

    What might interest you in this article? It seems to be about the Slavs, and not about the Jews!
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 12: 42
      But how similar everything in the article was inherited. And Semites too. Horses and people mixed together.
  57. +4
    21 December 2017 12: 27
    Quote: Olgovich
    As for what the nomads “couldn’t”:

    The Mongols lived and still live, for the most part, in desert and semi-desert areas. Imagine how, at the beginning of the early Middle Ages, nomadic Mongols in their yurts, in house houses, on dung, obtained strong iron and forged bladed weapons and parts of armor from it there. Whether then or now, no one canceled logistics during the war. Who and where supplied arrows and other edged weapons to the Mongol cavalry during the campaign against Rus'? Where in Mongolia are the remains of metallurgical slag dumps and the remains of ore mines in the Erdenet area? There is none of this. In the early Middle Ages, bog iron ore was mined where there were many swamps. Furnace iron was produced in furnaces using charcoal. Materials, in the form of wood, were in abundance only in one place, this was Siberia, the region inhabited by the Scythians, Sarmatians, Tartars, call it what you want. The Mongol invasion of Rus' is nonsense, refuted by simple engineering calculations.
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 12: 50
      - Everything depends on the weather, on the climate.
      Before the Mongols rode to Rus', Mongolia came there,
      - the fields are burning, the forests are burning, there is nothing to eat, everyone is fighting with everyone - they are shrinking.
      And then there are the Mongols, and they have no equal in these conditions, they were overwhelmed by the climate, they multiplied, began to rub together - united, captured neighbors with the necessary craftsmen and technologies, siege technology, for example, and trampled across their expanded landscape, where other peoples, especially farmers and without The Mongols were in poverty.
    2. +1
      22 December 2017 18: 49
      Quote: 2112vda
      Who and where supplied arrows and other edged weapons to the Mongol cavalry during the campaign against Rus'? The Mongol invasion of Rus' is nonsense, refuted by simple engineering calculations.

      Weapons were supplied from the Jin and Khorezm empires. The invasion was confirmed by archaeology.
  58. 0
    21 December 2017 12: 35
    Quote: Field wind
    Come on! But it’s okay that there are a lot of them, these finds, and they’ve been digging them up God knows from what time to this day.

    I will answer in your own words. Come on. Where are they located? Let me remind you that we are talking about the largest battle of the Middle Ages. (later this title passed to Grunwald).
    So where? What is shown and exhibited looks poorer than any exhibition in any more or less ancient Russian city. But there are no announcements about battles on such a scale. There is nothing on the sandpiper field.
    of. history is not bothered by the fact that there are no battle sites. The Kulikovo field (real) was not found, the battle on Kalka was not found, the battle on the Sit River was not found, I am also silent about the Battle of the Ice. Where is everyone? It seems that they were carried out exclusively on paper by chroniclers.
  59. The comment was deleted.
  60. +1
    21 December 2017 12: 39
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Alone
    finding archaeological finds under this very wall belonging to the Rus (according to anthropological analyzes),

    Link to the scientific journal where there is about it!

    Yes, do a search on the web and you will find a sea of ​​versions, both with links to scientific and non-scientific... But how can you figure out where it is - truly scientific? That's the question! Our history textbooks sometimes conflict with each other (from the Prosveshcheniye publishing house and the ghoul Soros), but here is such a specific question!
  61. +10
    21 December 2017 12: 44
    Thus, a handful of Mongolian shepherds and hunters, who had neither military-industrial base and organization, nor the corresponding number and fighting spirit, could in no way conquer the Rurikovich empire, even fragmented. No great leader, such as Temujin-Genghis Khan, would be able to create an invincible invasion army capable of crushing a number of strong states, conquering China, and fighting to Central Europe from small and half-wilder clans that do not have the appropriate technological and production base.

    And in 800 years, historians will write something like the following:
    Thus, a handful of peasants with a small layer of workers, who after the long Civil War had neither a military-industrial base nor an organization, could in no way, 20 years after the Civil War, withstand the German military machine that crushed the European armies. No great leader, like Stalin, could have created an invincible army from illiterate peasants and small workers who did not have the appropriate technological and production base, capable of crushing a number of strong states and fighting all the way to Central Europe.
    laughing
  62. +2
    21 December 2017 12: 45
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "it turns out" Samsonov "collective alias. Just kidding" ///

    It's true. Collective alias. By style features
    and views - three people.

    The diagnosis is so sad - split personality..... FUCK FUCK!
  63. +3
    21 December 2017 12: 46
    Amazing. Nonsense from the first word to the last.

    “Bulgar-Volgars (Tatars)” - how can you call the Bulgar-Volgars Tatars, if they became Tatars only after being conquered by the Tatar-Mongols, and before that they separated from the Ugrians and went to the southwest, the first part settled in Bulgar, and the second came and founded Bulgaria.

    Rus-Scythians - Scythia was destroyed back in the 4th century by the Ostrogoths of Germanaric.

    "Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world" - The name "Rus" is in no way connected with Siberia, since Russia was the name of a huge territory - the basin of the Ra River, from which Siberia is thousands of kilometers away.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 17: 43
      Quote: Pavel Frolov
      Amazing. Nonsense from the first word to the last.

      Then you should read read a book by a Catholic priest Mavro Orbini "Slavic kingdom"- was first published in 1601. in Italy... for me, it does not add up with this fact, the fact of the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
      That’s why the Catholic Church included this book in the index of prohibited books and barely escaped destruction!!!
  64. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      22 December 2017 18: 04
      Have you found the burials yet?
  65. The comment was deleted.
  66. +2
    21 December 2017 12: 59
    An excellent article, it will stir up a little stagnant swamp on the forum .. The more you read on the history of Russia, the more you see inconsistencies with the “official” history, which again are not explained by the “official” history. (the same Fomenko (he is a mathematician) with Nosov although they try to explain it by the absence of a single calendar and the rewriting of history in the interests of various groups) And the author is right, history is written by the winners... Take for example: the new history of Ukraine, Trump's speech... And what will people say about this in 200 years, if they still exist People ????
    ps And look for yourself how many times in our lifetime certain events are rewritten.....
  67. +1
    21 December 2017 12: 59
    But seriously. Traditional ethnography and archeology here tend to consider the nomadic peoples of the Horde as a separate ethnic group, distinct from modern Mongols. There was a mutual assimilation of Rus' and the Horde, which is why there is no clear genetic identity. Tat-Mongol trace. Therefore, it was not Igo there, but a feudal union of principalities and uluses.
  68. +1
    21 December 2017 13: 04
    Why such nonsense?
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 16: 57
      Why so categorical? What textbooks did you study from? in Soviet history textbooks, the entire interpretation of the Mongol-Tatar yoke is sewn with “white threads”, there are more questions than answers... Here is an attempt to interpret “inconvenient” facts. Has anything new appeared in the “official” (academic) interpretation of the Mongol-Tatar yoke? It seems like, according to their own teaching: terrible civil strife was harshly suppressed, a “Russian post” appeared - coachmen, Christian (?) monasteries flourished, transparent taxation was established (tax base 10% of income (turnover?)), people took refuge in churches during sieges they did not touch it. Not literally, of course (it was a long time ago). But in the end, who and whom ISIS was not clear even to me -
      to a schoolboy?
  69. +2
    21 December 2017 13: 05
    Interesting editorial policy....
  70. 0
    21 December 2017 13: 09
    Quote: Field wind
    Quote: Varyag77


    It seems that they were carried out exclusively on paper by chroniclers.

    Slavic, European and Arab at the same time?

    Yes, we really have no idea how much of this all happened at the same time. as well as the correctness of linking the history of one state with another on a time scale. The result is nonsense. Remember school. Have doubts ever occurred to you after you grew up? This is why our history is structured strictly vertically? Urartu-interfluve-Egypt-Greece-Rome..who was generally engaged in a critical assessment of Mkaliger’s research. What kind of focal development is this on our earth? In one period of time, only the good guys live here, in another only there... So it looks, frankly, just pathetic. As a result, we have several thousand years of Chinese history for example. so then they must simply be smarter than everyone else combined. But no. This is one of the stupidest nations on the planet. And until the USSR, and subsequently the West, helped them, they were just a huge herd chewing rice. The great Egyptians, for some reason, later forgot how to even build houses properly... all this is so far-fetched that there is no longer any desire to believe the official history.
    Throughout history, which is closer to us and therefore quite reliable, we can see something completely different. All peoples and states (with very rare exceptions) develop approximately the same. So why should we think that things were different in ancient times?
  71. The comment was deleted.
    1. 0
      21 December 2017 13: 23
      I pointed out that the nomads were neither Mongols nor Turks. Where did they go to China? Who did Batu tell? . In Sarai the population was up to 15 percent. Russians for various reasons.
    2. 0
      21 December 2017 14: 41
      Quote: Field wind
      .. 4% of the modern population of central Russia have in their DNA turkic and Mongolian traces..

      Please tell me which “Turkic” DNA haplogroups or haplotypes are known to science today? After all, it is usually believed that there are Turkic-speaking peoples, to which “Germanic”-speaking peoples can be included, but the Turkic ethnic group has not yet been found. Although, regarding the origin of the Turkic language itself, there is an assumption that its founders were people of haplogroup R1b1, living ten thousand years ago in the region of the Southern Urals. According to your post, what DNA exactly do you mean by “Turkic people”?
    3. 0
      21 December 2017 19: 08
      Yeah, typical scheme. Even today. Here's how to prove in the future that the Americans bent the Serbs and shoals Kosovo. They came, bent over, left their allies and left. The Russian princes ruled themselves and brought the established fees to the top. In principle, as in the east - up to the lantern, which ruler should send tribute (taxes) to the top - one's own or someone else's. And if someone else gives more will, then you can safely send your own...
  72. +2
    21 December 2017 13: 18
    Quote: Boris55
    Are you aware that all the annals of Petrukh I were allegedly claimed for the census and no one else saw them?

    How does he know this and why does he need to write the yoke there? What then was published in PSRL?
  73. +1
    21 December 2017 13: 20
    Quote: avva2012
    Polovtsev, how did the people who brought the compound bow and introduced our ancestors to him, no one considered?
    Another point. Compound bow is the longest known. Given that it is difficult to get close to prey in the steppe, and as a consequence of this, it was invented by the peoples living in this landscape zone. The tribes who hunted near the forest and on the banks of the rivers, need, simply, did not have to invent something similar to him.

    ...and he-onion - the Mongols didn’t need it on the farm either.. Mare’s milk, (cottage cheese, kumis, etc.), sheep meat.. Horses for wandering - transporting a yurt, when all the grass in this place was eaten, except from fight off wolves... This was life until almost the 19th century..
    1. +1
      22 December 2017 06: 59
      Yes, quite primitive.....poor Mongols.
      The Cossacks from the detachment of Major Pavlutsky prepared for battle. The commander was calm - hundreds of rifles and cannons were supposed to destroy the “non-peaceful Chukchi” who had taken refuge behind a snow-covered hill. The wind died down, and the air seemed to be filled with a ringing silence. The Chukchi appeared unexpectedly - shaking long spears, several dozen warriors dressed in leather armor covered with bone plates rushed at the Cossacks with a battle cry. A volley rang out from the first rank, then from the second, and the guns boomed heavily. The snow was stained with blood, the dead lay everywhere, the wounded screamed and tossed and turned. It seemed that victory was close. But then new warriors rose from behind the hill. Several rows of Chukchi pulled tight bows, reinforced with whalebone, and sang arrows, spreading death among the Cossacks. Major Pavlutsky's detachment did not have time to reload their guns. Arrows rained down one after another, and the Cossacks wavered. The retreating Russian Chukchi detachment was finished off with spears and clubs. From the stories of the Chukchi about the Battle of the Orlova River near Anadyr on March 14, 1747. Recorded and processed by K. Kuksin. If you don’t believe the “stories of the Chukchi,” there is another source: Nefedkin A.K. Military affairs of the Chukchi (mid-XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries). Both there and there, tribal relations. Society is at the same level of development. The same nomads, cattle breeders, only instead of rams, deer, “except to fight off wolves...”.
      1. +1
        23 December 2017 10: 07
        ...the Chukchi are hunters... - don’t compare horseradish to a finger...
        1. +2
          25 December 2017 04: 55
          And the Mongols are attached to sheep, right? In the north, where it is night for six months, can you survive only by hunting? Can you imagine the North? Yes, they kill walruses, if possible, they catch fish, but the main asset is the deer.
          The name of the people, adopted in administrative documents of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries, comes from the self-name of the tundra Chukchi nauchu, chavcha-vyt - “rich in deer”. The coastal Chukchi called themselves ank'alyt - "sea people" or ram'aglyt - "coastal inhabitants". The Chukchi are the oldest inhabitants of the continental regions of the extreme northeast of Siberia, bearers of an inland culture of wild deer hunters and fishermen. Neolithic finds on the river. Ekytikyveem and Enmyveem and lake. Elgytg date back to the second millennium BC. By the first millennium AD.Having tamed reindeer and partially switching to a sedentary lifestyle on the sea coast, the Chukchi established contacts with the Eskimos. By occupation, the Chukchi were divided into “reindeer” (nomadic, but continuing to hunt), “sedentary” (sedentary, having a small number of tamed deer, hunters of wild deer and sea animals) and “foot” (sedentary hunters of sea animals and wild deer , without deer).
          I don't compare....
      2. +5
        25 December 2017 09: 42
        Of course, I apologize wildly, but the main problem in the clashes between the Russians and the Chukchi was solely that there were negligible Russians, hundreds of people per tens of thousands of square kilometers.

        If you believe that in the battles with the Chukchi there were hundreds of guns, as at Borodino, then there is something wrong with your head, and the perception of numerals is at the level of “one, two,... many.” It would be good if it was possible to carry at least one light cannon for hundreds of kilometers.

        The maximum that the Chukchi could encounter was a traveling party of several dozen people, and it is clear that a traveling party could disperse a Chukchi tribe of a hundred people, which is 20-30 adult men, but there are many tribes, and not only the Chukchi, but for the Russians the loss of everyone The fighter is sensitive. People need to be sent thousands of kilometers away.

        And just don’t talk about “they didn’t have time to reload the guns”; in the Russian army everything was fine with training. And as I already said, the Chukchi themselves simply did not have enough people to rush in waves at the ranks of infantry, which perfectly knows how to rip open the belly with bayonets. And whether there were ranks, no one, in principle, moved there without horses or deer.
        1. +1
          26 December 2017 04: 05
          If you believe that in the battles with the Chukchi there were hundreds of guns, as at Borodino, then there is something wrong with your head, and the perception of numerals is at the level of “one, two,... many.”

          If you prefer to talk to yourself, then that is your right. The conversation began about the fact that the Mongols did not need a bow:
          Quote: ver_ ..and he-onion - the Mongols didn’t need it on the farm either.. Mare’s milk, (cottage cheese, kumis, etc.), sheep meat.. Horses for wandering - transporting a yurt, when all the grass in this place was eaten, perhaps just fight off the wolves... This was life until almost the 19th century..
          The example of the Chukchi was given to compare societies at the same level of development. By the way, whether it was an accident or not, by the time the Russians arrived, the Chukchi were actively terrorizing all nearby tribes. Why the Mongols, who had reached the same level of development a little earlier, could not begin to do the same thing is not clear.
  74. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 16: 48
      The person stayed at school level -5, 6, grade... And still did not understand that TEACHING and HISTORY are different things. The first is close to children's perception, so it goes vertically. The second one is “going in breadth”. But it’s harder to perceive it this way. Although there are books - where all this is laid out by year, what happened that year in Egypt, Greece, Rome, China, England... But you have to read it...
  75. +2
    21 December 2017 13: 25
    I generally agree with the author's point of view. Just like the fact that the Egyptian pyramids are made of concrete. Accordingly, they are not 5000 years old, but 500 years old. And one more thing: go to Germany, talk to archaeologists, visit local ethnographic museums. There are Slavic roots everywhere...
  76. The comment was deleted.
  77. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      22 December 2017 18: 07
      Well, where are they?
  78. +8
    21 December 2017 13: 28
    Gentlemen, we are present at the birth of a new trend in quasi-sciences. The era of “folk history” is becoming a thing of the past. Nosovsky and Fomenko are sent to waste paper. "Delirio-history" rules the roost!!! The most unexpected turns of the historical process await us!!! In the next article we expect a mega-discovery from the author - there were no Mongolo-Tatars - they were ancient Ukrainians!!! I think that the flurry of comments will be at the level of a tropical cyclone and will exceed all imaginable records!!! Look forward to!!!
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 19: 02
      Post-truth, however wassat
    2. +1
      26 December 2017 22: 52
      Quote: Curious
      These were ancient Ukrainians!!!

      perhaps here you are very close to the truth, only not the Ukrainians, but the Don, Zaporozhye Cossacks, and also the Tatars!
      The point is that that army was divided by religion, some joined Islam and submitted to the Ottomans! became Tatars, others remained Orthodox and joined the Russian Empire! still others rushed to the west, then to the south, then to Russia, and in the end they turned out to be Ukrainians!!!
      1. 0
        26 December 2017 22: 59
        Fits! You are laying the foundations of another new science - “delirium ethnogenesis”.
  79. +1
    21 December 2017 13: 31
    Quote: Serg65
    Quote: Alone
    somehow (the author correctly pointed out) the absence of Mongolian words in Russian

    what One thing I can say, you do not know Russian well!
    Sword from Mongolian Mes
    Outback from the Mongolian Zah ulus
    Bogatyr from Mongolian bagatura
    Cheers from Mongolian Urai
    Cart from the Mongolian Telegen
    Crest from the Mongolian Gokhyol (big greetings to Great Ukrainians)

    maybe it's the other way around wink
    Nowadays, few people can tell the history of the Second World War, especially in the West.
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 14: 16
      Quote: Oleg Vatnik
      maybe it's the other way around

      Maybe it’s the other way around, here’s a comrade with a straw in your avatar, he also rewrote the history of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus a couple of times wink
      Quote: Oleg Vatnik
      Nowadays, few people can tell the history of the Second World War

      I hope you yourself know the full history of the Second World War?
  80. +1
    21 December 2017 13: 32
    Bushkov in “The Russia That Never Was” (in the first book) describes all this in more detail and with reasoning. And indeed there is no evidence of the great armies of the Tatar-Mongols. And fodder for horses and food for this armada is also a problem in the absence of more or less decent transport links at that time. Those. when there are a lot of horsemen (plus a convoy), then it goes along the roads between cities (like Napoleon in 1812 and like Hitler in 1941) - this is very meager food for people and horses...
  81. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      21 December 2017 13: 47
      Well, there was some kind of communication between the cities)) They didn’t fly on carpeted planes)))
  82. +1
    21 December 2017 13: 39
    Quote: Field wind
    But this one, forgive the nonsense, I won’t even comment on it.

    Are you Chinese? You won't be able to comment on anything. Because there is nothing to cover this with. You won’t write anything down for them (no need to talk about gunpowder, because this is the most important argument that either they or they didn’t invent it).
    The box opens easier. All civilizations, peoples and states developed simultaneously (plus or minus) simply in comparing their histories and building them into a single time scale, Scaliger made a mistake (intentionally or not is another question). Hence this wild, simply vertical history of the world.
  83. +4
    21 December 2017 13: 45
    Nonsense. Bullshit. The administration of the Russian Empire has nothing better to do than invent the Tatar-Mongols.
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 16: 34
      The administration of the Russian Empire has nothing better to do,
      Why does the administration need Karamzin alone?
    2. +2
      21 December 2017 17: 35
      Quote: bbss
      Nonsense. Bullshit. The administration of the Russian Empire has nothing better to do than invent the Tatar-Mongols.


      I think supporters of the Tatar-Mongol yoke should read the book of the Catholic priest Mavro Orbini “The Slavic Kingdom” - it was first published in 1601. in Italy... for me, it does not add up with this fact, the fact of the yoke...
    3. reg
      +1
      28 December 2017 10: 29
      Quote: bbss
      The administration of the Russian Empire has nothing better to do than invent the Tatar-Mongols.

      Catherine simply needed this. After all, she built the Third Rome. And Moscow Tartary, for obvious reasons, was like a bone in her throat. So she eliminated it. She expressed it completely from all the sources available to her.
  84. +3
    21 December 2017 14: 06
    All disputes are not about the essence of the issue. The problem is in defining concepts. Talking about the “Tatar-Mongol invasion” is complete profanation. How can one not talk about the invasion of the Huns in the 4th century. These and other historical facts contain the fact of the movement of large masses of nomads, caused by both climatic-landscape (according to Gumilyov) and socio-economic (Marxism) factors. The primitivism of the historical thinking of the past and modern educators gives rise to confusion in terminology. The names of historical figures Genghis Khan and Batu Khan are far-fetched by historical figures of the 18th century. Historical thinking requires distancing from modern terminology for fear of misinterpretation of historical events. Again, see L.N. Gumilyov. Well, what do modern Tatars or Mongols have to do with the 13th century?
  85. +4
    21 December 2017 14: 08
    Fomenko, no?
  86. 0
    21 December 2017 15: 19
    Quote: Serg65
    Quote: Alone
    somehow (the author correctly pointed out) the absence of Mongolian words in Russian

    what One thing I can say, you do not know Russian well!
    Sword from Mongolian Mes
    Outback from the Mongolian Zah ulus
    Bogatyr from Mongolian bagatura
    Cheers from Mongolian Urai
    Cart from the Mongolian Telegen
    Crest from the Mongolian Gokhyol (big greetings to Great Ukrainians)

    ...and there’s nothing from Harry Potter there?..
    1. +4
      22 December 2017 08: 32
      Quote: ver_
      and there's nothing from Harry Potter there?..

      laughing Interesting reasoning from a man whose reference book is “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone”
  87. 0
    21 December 2017 15: 25
    Quote: jhltyjyjctw
    I generally agree with the author's point of view. Just like the fact that the Egyptian pyramids are made of concrete. Accordingly, they are not 5000 years old, but 500 years old. And one more thing: go to Germany, talk to archaeologists, visit local ethnographic museums. There are Slavic roots everywhere...

    ..a casket with gifts from the Magi, for the birth of Christ, is kept in a museum in Germany..
    1. +2
      21 December 2017 19: 11
      the casket itself is made in the XNUMXth century, but where the “gifts” were kept before that and to what era they date is unknown. There is no scientific evidence.
  88. +3
    21 December 2017 15: 26
    I would like to know from the distinguished assembly:
    Do the Nazis from all parts of the world have the same idea for everyone, or did they unearth a batch of leaflets in some German bunker?
    If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Goebbels based his propaganda on the Mongol-Russian identity.
  89. +1
    21 December 2017 15: 43
    If Alexander also supported his statements with arguments/references, it would be great. And so, offhand, the Cilician Armenian king was also an ally of the Mongols, but he seemed to describe them as Asians.
  90. LEK
    0
    21 December 2017 15: 51
    this is not a myth but the truth
  91. LEK
    0
    21 December 2017 15: 55
    How long can history be changed? 300 years now turned out to be a hoax. Stop fooling around. 300 years is true.
  92. LEK
    0
    21 December 2017 15: 57
    where is the first one?
  93. +1
    21 December 2017 16: 04
    Thank you for saying a word about the poor Mongols. Otherwise, the Mongols and Poles, in an instant, in various university dean's offices and half-burned libraries, turned out to be our most sworn... “historical teachers” and students now “know” from whom all our troubles come.
    In the continuation, as I understand it, it will be “where the Russian Land came from” (“eat” not in the sense of “eat”, but in the sense of “to be.”). It's been a long time since we heard from Slavophiles and Westerners. There is no practical benefit from these discussions, but I wonder who Dmitry Donskoy and Ivan III “stood” with, and when the Moscow metro station “Taganskaya” will be renamed “Kulikovskobitvennaya”. And then with all stops and straight to the Bundestag there is a train from the Kursk station.
    1. +1
      21 December 2017 16: 42
      By the way, about the Poles, the Indo-Aryan gene is present in abundance among the Poles. They are the same ancestors of those same Rus Scythians as the Russians. Read about the Avar Kaganate about those very Rus Scythians ousted from Siberia by the Chinese and the ancestors of the Kazakhs during the period of the great migration of peoples. Just after this began Rus' formed along the Dnieper and Volga.
      This is how the monk and chronicler Theophanes the Confessor reported about it: “In the same year (558 AD) an extraordinary tribe of the so-called Avars entered Byzantium, and the whole city came running to look at them, since they had never seen such a tribe. "They were very long, tied in bunches and intertwined, the rest of their clothing was similar (to the clothing) of the rest of the Huns. They, having fled from their country, came to the regions of Scythia and Moesia and sent envoys to Justinian, asking him to accept them."

      Meanwhile, the trained eye of an experienced warrior might have noticed something else unusual in the appearance of the nomadic envoys, in addition to their amazing hairstyles. These brave riders were too well equipped. Long-legged horses with swan necks compared favorably with the unsightly and undersized steppe horses of the Hunnic breed. Stacked helmets with plumes made of feathers and horse tails sparkled in the sun. The wind blew small strips of colored fabric at the ends of the spears. Thin belts with beautiful gold plaques intercepted the slender torsos of the cavalrymen, at whose feet specially shaped narrow swords hung. The main thing: not only the warriors themselves from head to toe, but their faithful four-legged companions were covered in front with sparkling plate armor. The Huns, and after them the Bulgars, taught the Byzantines that only pitiful ragamuffins came to them from the Steppe. This time it was different. Never-before-seen iron horsemen proudly paraded through the streets of Constantinople.
  94. 0
    21 December 2017 16: 08
    Or maybe it's true. I want to believe in our greatness
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 16: 34
      There was greatness, there was. From sea to sea. I mean from the Atlantic to the Pacific. But then the insidious British came and made a fool of him. And so much that we still can’t wash ourselves away.
      1. +1
        21 December 2017 19: 17
        Quote: kalibr
        There was greatness, there was. From sea to sea. I mean from the Atlantic to the Pacific.


        Well, why be so stupid? There was Ancient Rus' - from the northern seas to the Black Sea. No one talks about universal greatness, but there was a state, and cities were built, and trade was carried out, and lands grew and they fought off invaders. Your ardent and unrequited love for the tail of the British is very obvious and perhaps, somewhere understandable (maybe they will notice your efforts, appreciate it - and then it will break), but why bring the history of your country to the point of absurdity? And if you don’t like something, then go closer to the object of your love. There seems to be no “curtain” anymore, no one is holding it by force...
        1. +1
          22 December 2017 12: 54
          That is, everything is exactly the same as among other nations, right? And Caliber’s words about the need to soberly perceive history, and not look for the Slavs in Venice and not confuse the Etruscans with the Russians. Don't become idiots, in other words.
        2. 0
          22 December 2017 13: 42
          gorlumello(maybe they’ll notice the efforts, appreciate them, and it’ll be a big deal)
          What a pity that you are new to VO and are just trying your hand at searching for the truth. Yes, everyone here has long known and writes quite openly that “Shpakovsky’s English spy” goes to London for instructions and brings suitcases of money. Don't believe me? Ask "broom" - he knows! Why should I leave when they already deliver it to my home?!
    2. +1
      21 December 2017 16: 39
      Aren’t we great without Scythia and Prince-Khan-the-fish-whale Batu?
  95. The comment was deleted.
  96. +4
    21 December 2017 16: 22
    The Russians are a horde of Mongols who need to be driven back to Asia, and the resources and lands given to real people...
    1. +7
      21 December 2017 16: 45
      Why are you smoking, you sick guy? You're suffering from stomach pain and you can't go to the toilet. Or, on the contrary, are you unable to stop the process? What happened, tell us, don’t hide. Perhaps (there are very literate people here) they will advise something worthwhile.
      And then you, as a “real person,” will not need resources and land. 1 m by 2 m is enough.....
  97. +2
    21 December 2017 16: 26
    Still at school. In history lessons, I asked the teacher a question. What did these hundreds of thousands of Tatar-Mongols feed their horses in our winter in 1237? Even if there were 50 thousand of them (which is much less than what was announced). Each warrior has three horses, that’s 150000 horses, plus all sorts of auxiliary units. We also add at least 50000. Total is roughly 200000 horses. Well, okay, the Mongols supposedly ate what they pierced the veins of horses and drank their blood. And WHAT DID the horses themselves EAT? In our snows and forests. A coniferous paw, which they tried to feed cows on collective farms in the 80s. So the cows didn’t respect her very much, and they didn’t give her enough milk, and the horses wouldn’t have galloped far from such food.
    In general, all these historians surprise me extremely. They just can’t agree on what, where and why happened, like, 100 years ago. but they know VERY well what happened 1000, or even 2000 years ago. Strange people, to say the least...
    1. +4
      21 December 2017 16: 44
      Gramotey, the Mongolian steppe horse, obtains food itself in winter, these are not your pampered geldings. In Siberia (where there is much more snow, as in Mongolia, your snow did not stand next to ours. Like frosts) steppe horses do not feed on oats in winter and etc., Google it, you’ll find out everything, but you don’t need a lot of intelligence to just sit and repeat like a sheep, the same horses of the Cossacks, they are of steppe blood, they never ate oats and are much more resilient, recently they reached Paris on their own legs (these are not racing horses horses. And how the Kalmyks came to the European part of present-day Russia, the Martians brought them there, the Kalmyks, the same Mongols.
      1. +2
        22 December 2017 18: 13
        Miracle warriors on miracle horses....
    2. +2
      21 December 2017 18: 09
      They fed them with something, hay, which they prepared in the summer. Even the Mongols used carts
    3. 0
      22 December 2017 19: 03
      Quote: myobius59
      What did these hundreds of thousands of Tatar-Mongols feed their horses in our winter in 1237? Even if there were 50 thousand of them (which is much less than what was announced). Each warrior has three horses, that’s 150000 horses, plus all sorts of auxiliary units. We also add at least 50000. Total is roughly 200000 horses. Well, okay, the Mongols supposedly ate what they pierced the veins of horses and drank their blood. And WHAT DID the horses themselves EAT?

      Mongolian horses ate grass, hay, straw and oats, which either grew in the fields, were carried in the wagon train, or were robbed from the local population. Purely cavalry units had 3 horses, while the bulk of the Mongol army were dragoons, that is, 1-2 horses.
  98. +2
    21 December 2017 16: 27
    The most constructive article, although not ideal. I liked the balance in it.
  99. +5
    21 December 2017 16: 36
    I believe that there was no yoke, it was a war of the Vedist Rus and the Christian Rus, the difference between the Vedists and the Christians is that the Vedist Rus drank a lot, that’s why their faces were swollen, their eyes were slits from alcohol, determine the nationality of a homeless alcoholic ( all the same symptoms, slitted eyes, swollen face, high cheekbones - well, Asian, Asian). Christian Russians, in your imagination you have surpassed the ancient Ukrainians with their dug out of the Black Sea with shovels.
    1. +2
      22 December 2017 00: 00
      You sound like Trotsky... in Rus', whatever it was, they never drank as much as even in your country...
      Finger into the jug, out the polluting drop... and I don’t want to drink... maybe so?!

      And if not, you should keep quiet and not disgrace yourself...
    2. +3
      22 December 2017 10: 10
      Quit drug addiction. Go get treatment...
  100. +6
    21 December 2017 16: 37
    Quote: Vladgashek
    Well, what do modern Tatars or Mongols have to do with the 13th century?

    Modern? None! Like Russians and Ukrainians to Kievan Rus.

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