Military Review

Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia

1 050
Why create a fake about the "Mongol" invasion of Russia 780 years ago, on the night of 20 on 21 December 1237, the troops of Batu stormed Ryazan. The "Tatar-Mongol" invasion began. We should know and remember that the fake about the “Mongols from Mongolia” was launched by Catholic Rome - the then “command post” of the Western community.


Hordes of Batu attacked Russia, took Ryazan, ruined the Ryazan principality, the invasion of other Russian lands began, cities and villages burned, fierce battles were fought - all this historical truth. The horde of the Great Khan Prince Batu prevailed over fragmented Russia, where most of the princes "pulled a blanket" over themselves. The fragmentation of Russia did not allow the gathering of a common army, which could repel the invasion of the steppes.

At the same time, we must remember that the myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was launched by the papal spy Plano Carpini and other agents of Rome. No Mongols from Mongolia ever reached Russia. It was simply impossible - a huge army of hundreds of thousands of warriors and even more horses could not be fed. Yes, the Mongols in this period simply did not correspond to the great conquerors who decided to conquer the whole "universe." They were at a low stage of development - the expansion of tribal relations; they had neither military-economic potential, nor human resources, nor the corresponding drive.

As you know from history, Great empires and powers are created by adding up several factors: 1) military and economic potential, the ability to expose, arm and supply a powerful army; 2) advanced technology, military revolution, for example, domestication of a horse and its use in military affairs, iron weapon, Macedonian phalanx, Roman legions, etc .; 3) demographic factor - the conquering people must have the appropriate size in order to expose a large army and control the conquered space; 4) passionarity is a great idea, mission, ability to go to death for a great cause.

For example, these factors have the current American empire - the “world gendarme”: the first economy of the world and the most powerful military-industrial complex, the armed forces controlling a large part of the planet; advanced developments in the military field; a significant population - more than 325 million people (third place in the world); American messianism - the construction of the American world order, the protection of "democracy" and "human rights". In the past, similar factors can be identified in the Soviet Union (Red Empire), the Russian Empire, the Second and Third Reichs (Germany), and the Roman Empire. Another example is the empire of Alexander the Great: the military and financial reforms of Tsar Philip created the military-economic potential for conquest, the Macedonian phalanx was a revolution in military affairs; Alexander and his warriors were real passionaries, ready to overcome fire and water for the sake of their goal.

Thus, a handful of Mongolian shepherds and hunters, who had neither military-industrial base and organization, nor the corresponding number and fighting spirit, could in no way conquer the Rurikovich empire, even fragmented. No great leader, such as Temujin-Genghis Khan, would be able to create an invincible invasion army capable of crushing a number of strong states, conquering China, and fighting to Central Europe from small and half-wilder clans that do not have the appropriate technological and production base.

Iron discipline, the decimal system of organization of the troops, the great archers and horsemen all this already. In particular, in the Russian squads. Since ancient times, the Russian squad and rati were divided into dozens, hundreds, thousands and darkness (10 thousand fighters). Russian complex bow was much more powerful and long-range of the famous English bow.

"Mongols" and "Tatars" - representatives of the Mongoloid race, who subjugated a significant part of Eurasia, simply did not exist. However, there was an ancient Scythian-Siberian world of the Rus-pagans, inheriting the traditions of many millennia, going back to the times of the Aryans and Hyperboreans. These were the heirs of the oldest, having its origins in the very beginning of the white race, the northern civilization. From the legendary Hyperborea, the Aryan world and the Great Scythiaoccupying a vast territory from the Pacific Ocean, the borders of China, India and Persia to the Baltic and the Black (Russian) Sea. Actually, the Russian civilization and the Russian superethnos, as a direct heir of the ancient northern tradition, still occupy most of this territory. The spiritual, cultural and military impulses of this northern civilization led to the birth and development of Ancient Persia, India (they still remember their northern homeland), China and other civilizations.

Scythian-Siberian Rus in anthropological (white skin, bright eyes, tall), cultural (common traditions, customs, faith, material culture, including weapons and combat skills), economic relations were direct relatives of the Rusam who lived in Ryazan, Vladimir -Suzdal, Novgorod and Kiev and Galician Russia. Before the West destroyed the Slavorian tribes of Central Europe (Porussia-Prussia, Germany, Austria, Northern Italy), they were also part of a huge super-ethnos Rus, a single ethno-cultural and linguistic community.

The peculiarity of the Scythian-Siberian world of the Rus was that they led semi-nomadic (developed animal husbandry) for thousands of years and at the same time the agricultural way of life. They also kept the pagan faith. True, the Russes of Vladimir-Suzdal, Novgorod Russia, for the most part, were still double-believers, retaining many pagan beliefs and rituals.

Only this huge fragment of the Great Scythia - the Scythian-Siberian world, which had a thousand-year history, a powerful military production base, a considerable number, and fighting spirit, could put out a strong army, which once again shook the world. It was they who conquered Central Asia, China, defeated and subjugated another fragment of the Great Scythia - the Polovtsy (they also were not “Mongoloids”, but typical Northern Caucasians), the Volgars-Bulgarians (Tatars), invaded Russia, and then moved into Europe. The horde is Rod, Rada, tumen - darkness, the word Khan comes from "Kohang, Kokhany," beloved, respected. "

The so-called "Mongols" did not bring to Russia a single Mongolian word and not a single skull of a representative of the Mongoloid race. "Mongols" in Russia was not. "Tatar-Mongols", Polovtsians and Russes of Ryazan, Vladimir and Kiev were representatives of a single super-ethnos. Therefore, later, when the administrative center of the Eurasian Empire moved from Saray to Moscow, the vast majority of the population of the Horde simply became Russian. Since there were no anthropological, indigenous linguistic and cultural differences between Russians from Moscow and Kiev and the Horde. If at the time of the Golden Horde, the population of the Horde and Russia was approximately equal, then after the fall of the Horde Empire, most of its population (former Polovtsians) became Russian. At the same time, the Russians did not receive Mongoloid features (Mongoloid features are dominant), nor Mongolian words.

It should be remembered that the war was, the battles of the Russians of Ryazan, Vladimir, Chernigov and Kiev and the pagans of the Scythian-Siberian world were tough. It was a terrifying scramble, Big Strife. So only Rus can fight. Prince Batu won this war. At the same time, they both fought and framed, as happened with Prince Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky and Baty and his son, were related (as before with the Polovtsy - they were their own, not strangers), spoke the same language, quarreled again, fought and put up. Later, and completely mixed. Some of the Russo-Scythians adopted Orthodoxy, another settled in the Golden Horde, Central Asia and China — the princely and imperial dynasties of the local tribes gave it to the local tribes (all this happened before, in the times of Great Scythia).

The fact that Western historians falsifiers called the Great Empire of Genghis Khan, in fact, was the Great Empire of the Rus. They began to rewrite history a long time ago, not in the 20th century, when Westerners, for example, made the revision of the Great War to their advantage. Historians of the Romano-Germanic world, chroniclers of the Roman Catholic Church, historians of the East Roman (Byzantine) and Roman empires copied history. Rome, the most ancient “command center” of governing the West, is the real center for distorting the history of mankind. The masters of the West cannot recognize that Russia-Russia, the Russian super-ethnos are the direct heirs and guardians of the most ancient northern civilization of humanity. This is a question of the “big game”, of geopolitics - the many thousands-year struggle for the right to be the “king of the mountain” - the owner of the planet. Do not recognize it in Japan and China, hiding traces of an ancient civilization. Only in India they say directly that their ancestors of the aria came from the north, from Russia. That Russians and white Indians are descendants of one great race. Only Russians are descendants of those who remained on a common ancestral homeland, retaining their language and physical attributes. And the Indians "turned black" in the south. However, it was the Indians who preserved the ancient Vedic mythology, and India is a kind of "reserve" of our ancient traditions and customs. Hence the spiritual affinity of Russians and Hindus.

The masters of the West distort world history, replacing the true history with fakes, destroy and hide the true monuments of the past, stick out and expand the chronological framework of the “historical nations” - the British, Germans, French, Italians, Jews, etc. At the same time, they cut and distort the history of Slavs and Russ -Russian, pesting the myths of "wildness", "inferiority", "inferiority", "secondary" of Russia, which is always supposedly borrowed everything from the West or the East, etc. This is an information war. And the story plays a leading role in it. Managing history allows you to "program" the course of events for centuries to come. Even create new “peoples”, like “Ukrainians”, who are Russian, but turn into a “independent” people separate from the Russians.

Ruined the Great Empire of the Rus new conceptual and ideological sabotage. In the south, they began to introduce Islam, in which part of the elite elite was interested. This was the main cause of the split, unrest and further disintegration. Islam, which originated in the Semitic environment, introduced into the society of Indo-Europeans-Aryans, the unusual beginnings and customs, leading to the degeneration and degeneration of the marginal families of the Rus. The most striking example is Iran (“the state of the Aryans”). Persia - Indo-European, whose Aryan population was forced to convert to Islam. As a result, Semitization (Arabization) and Islamization of one of the ancient Aryan civilizations occurred.

However, the empire of Genghis Khan did not die. Northern civilization, as it was more than once in the past, took a new form. The control center shifted from the Horde to Moscow. There was a merger of European and Scythian-Siberian Rus. This made Russia a continental empire, from ocean to ocean. And Russia again challenged the masters of the West. The Big Game continues.

Thus, there were no “Mongols from Mongolia” in Russia. Clan-hordes of Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world, stretching from the Northern Black Sea coast to the Altai and Sayans, including Mongolia, came to European Russia. The ancestors of the current Mongols were then at a low stage of development, were hunters, cattlemen, did not have the military-industrial, demographic and cultural potential for great conquests. Rus-Scythians were Caucasians, Aryans-Rus - Rus Pagan, Asian. In fact, two passionary nuclei of a single superethnos of the Rus, the European and the Asian, collided. Two parts of the Great Scythia, the ancient northern civilization, which existed for thousands of years from the Pacific Ocean to the Varangian and Russian (Black) seas, the Carpathians, from the Arctic Ocean to the borders of China, India and Persia.

It is later that the southern genera of the Rus will be Islamized, subjected to assimilation by the Turkic, Mongoloid and Semitic peoples of Asia. But in the XIII century the Rus-Scythians came to Russia, and not the “Mongols” or the Turks. And as we know from history, the most fierce, fierce battles are internecine when a brother rises against a brother. The battle was fierce, many cities and villages were turned to ashes, many thousands of people were killed.

But every cloud has a silver lining. At first, European Russia became part of a huge empire - the Golden Horde. Then, with the degradation, destruction of the Horde, inspired by our external enemies, its collapse, the new center of the Eurasian Empire, the Ruses, matured. The empire of Rurikovich turned under Ivan the Terrible into the Eurasian Russian Empire. The Russians again united the vast territory of the ancient northern civilization into a single state. The descendants of the Horde russians became part of a single super-ethnos of the Rus. Russia became the heir of the ancient super-civilization. The West could not get dominance on the planet, and the war was continued.

To be continued ...
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  1. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 21 December 2017 05: 57 New
    80
    What can I say .. Better without any comments ..)
    1. venaya
      venaya 21 December 2017 07: 29 New
      41
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      What can I say ..

      We must say honestly and bluntly: This author’s article is the best in his series of articles on this topic.. If you have doubts about the essence of the article, then explain your position on fragments that are not clear to you. The article is written extremely briefly but very richly, many readers may have some ambiguities in the presentation of the material. Want to understand in more detail - we will help!
      1. trampoline instructor
        trampoline instructor 21 December 2017 07: 58 New
        25
        And what scientific papers do you have, assistant?
        1. Evgeniy667b
          Evgeniy667b 21 December 2017 11: 16 New
          31
          There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria. It is also in the drawing book of Siberia, Remezov. There are Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling. And who said that the inhabitants of Tartaria were pagans .. Sun worshipers, yes, and this is primarily an understanding of their environment and its place in Space. They cherished their habitat, not like "true followers of different faiths", such as Christianity ,, Islam, Judaism ... These can only be taken! What, for example, is the attitude now to the bowels, bioresources? Nowhere else to go. The purpose of the campaign of tartaria was not enslavement, but to liberate the fraternal community of people from the consequences of Western influence. The essence of “Christians2 is from the Vatican. Like now from Uncle Sam’s Shrewd Democrats. (Still ahead) Historical development is a spiral, everything repeats.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 11: 24 New
            36
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria.

            Hm. It’s a pity to ruin your fantastic picture of the world, but ... The maps you are talking about were created in feudal Europe. In the understanding of Europeans, Tataria is the Horde with the states repaired by it. Therefore, Russia, as a tributary of the Horde on the maps, was included in its composition.
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling.

            Not from the ceiling, but written by a specific person by the name of Khinevich to ensure their selfish goals.
            1. venaya
              venaya 21 December 2017 11: 36 New
              21
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              .. (Vedas) are written by a specific person by the name of Khinevich to ensure their selfish goals.

              In what millennium did the legendary "man by the name of Hinevich" live? The Vedas came to India from the north 3500 years ago, the Vedas of the Avesta were written 1800 years ago, and the Vedas, Slavic-Aryan, were issued by the emperor, emperor Father Alexander II (have they been written now?). Check your knowledge more closely, otherwise a person with the image of a "monarchist" has so sharply opposed all monarchies over the past few millennia. Amazing right?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 12: 35 New
                25
                Quote: venaya
                "Vedas, Slavic-Aryan" issued by the Emperor Emperor Father Alexander II

                Oh really? And do you have an original copy signed by Emperor Alexander II? A certain Mr. Asov (an accomplice of Hinevich) in the 90s threw in the version that these Vedas were allegedly secretly published by some kind of society under the direction of Alexander II, only ... neither the originals of this publication, nor the memoirs of contemporaries about this edition nowhere no. Nowhere ... except for references in the opuses of Hinevich and Asov.
                1. Sirocco
                  Sirocco 21 December 2017 12: 41 New
                  18
                  Oh really? And do you have an original copy signed by Emperor Alexander II?
                  Whether or not there is a specimen, this is not known to science. But it’s known that, Ukraine and Russia today, what the author writes about, the brothers lash each other for fun to the west, in Ukraine today, the history is rewritten yesterday. Or do you also not know this? I think if everything is left as it is, then according to historical facts, books, Ukraine will become Olympus, forgetting its roots, it will become like Poland, Slovakia, Serbia, Greece, Slavic roots in the middle of the EU, where from?
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 13: 06 New
                    23
                    Excuse me, what does Ukraine have to do with it? My comment was about a fake called "Slavic-Aryan Vedas", which was thrown into Russian society in the 90s.
                    1. Sirocco
                      Sirocco 21 December 2017 16: 15 New
                      18
                      You need to look broader)))) The whole story is rewritten, figure out where the truth is and where is the fiction, I personally believe more in legends, and not historians with their publications, one hundred people, one hundred opinions)))) Maybe I'm wrong, then correct, but please The Bible began with 10 commandments. You read the message of Enoch which is not included in the Bible in the modern edition. The gap pattern will be.
                      1. E_V_N
                        E_V_N 21 December 2017 23: 21 New
                        14
                        Quote: Sirocco
                        but the Bible began with the 10 commandments.

                        You read the commandments yourself carefully, according to the syllable, the commandments are very different, only 5 of them can be considered genuine not rewritten, "honor father and mother," do not kill, "" do not steal, "" do not commit adultery, "" do not give false witness, "all the others or written or even invented, especially the commandments about slaves as property. God created people equal in his image and likeness, all descended from "Adam and Eve", where could the slaves come from? And why did the Lord suddenly begin to protect slavery in his commandments? Why does the Lord need prayers and reverence for people? God the Creator and Creator he is superior to all sorts of "forgive your slave," stupid, it looks like that.
                      2. avva2012
                        avva2012 22 December 2017 04: 58 New
                        +8
                        Quote: Sirocco You read the message of Enoch which is not included in the Bible in the modern edition.

                        In order to include and what not to include in the canonical texts, ecumenical councils gathered or, do you think that the fomennas, have just appeared?
                        I personally believe in legends rather than historians with their publications

                        In Soviet times, science was based, including historical, on dialectical materialism. That is, any statement was evaluated in terms of the laws of logic and respect for sources. Now, an idealistic approach prevails. It got to the point that theology defends scientific (!) Work. If this goes on, then we will study ancient history according to the "classic textbook" by Nikolai Kun, "Legends and Myths of Ancient Greece."
                      3. figwam
                        figwam 22 December 2017 14: 34 New
                        +6
                        And no one had a question why on engravings of that time we see houses, towers, fortresses, which implies the presence of architecture, and it implies the ability to design and create these houses and primitively drawn engravings against this background. I think that this whole story is a lie.
                    2. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 08 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      It was in my comment about the fake

                      Our ancestors lived according to VEDAM. in Slavic-Aryan or not, but in Vedam. And in the official story about this silence.
                      1. marline
                        marline 22 December 2017 10: 39 New
                        +9
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Our ancestors lived according to VEDAM. in Slavic-Aryan or not, but in Vedam. And in the official story about this silence.

                        Our ancestors lived differently. To invent “Vedic” customs of “Slavic-Russians” means to despise and not love real still existing customs left over from our ancestors.
                        Do you want ancient Slavic customs? Please, Christmas is coming soon, which means that we are waiting for Christmas fortune-telling and carols - quite a pagan ritual left over from pre-Christian times.
            2. Evgeniy667b
              Evgeniy667b 21 December 2017 19: 09 New
              +5
              And tell me, dear Lieutenant, are you by any chance not a historian by profession, is it all you sorted out on the shelves? As for Khinevich, he belongs to the category of people for whom the method is not important, and most importantly to have their own benefit. He himself is somehow not interesting to me. But there are enough of such people now. The truth is much deeper. And even Alexander !! only authorized the publication, but picak is not the customer of the compilation of this work.
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 21 December 2017 20: 22 New
                +7
                .
                Quote: Evgeniy667b
                And even Alexander !! only authorized the publication, but picak is not the customer of the compilation of this work.

                Hinevich recently abandoned the duck about authorizing Alexander to write 2 “Vedas”, as everyone sincerely believes that it was “in reality” ..... How easy it is to fool you
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 09 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  How easy it is to fool you

                  Are you SURE that the official story is more OFFICIAL? wink
            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 04 New
              +5
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              by the name of Khinevich to ensure their selfish goals.

              Let's voice these goals, and their selfish results! wink
            4. ammunition
              ammunition 21 December 2017 22: 34 New
              +7
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              written by a specific person by the name of Hinevich to ensure their selfish goals.


              You're right!!
              What only slander and garbage is not written. Or by order. Or for the sake of public relations and hooliganism. Or "unrecognized geniuses." request
              --------------------
              Already lured by the "argument" .. type - there is nowhere to feed the horses laughing
              Devlet - Girey with his 150 000 equestrian warriors, this means there is where to feed. And Giray was leaving Crimea already in July! When the Colchis steppe turns yellow. But it's like - Nothing!
              The Battle of Molodi has not yet been disputed. lol For it is fraught.
              But the Mongols - the steppes are disputed.
              By the way! Batu Khan in the army only 15 000 warriors had the Mongols. Others are Kipchaks, Khakasses, Manchurians, Turgays .. etc. And he had only Tumens 8. That is - half the number of horses than Giray.
              And what horses !!! The horses of Batu were of Mongolian breed. Exceptional among equine stamina people. wink
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 22 December 2017 02: 55 New
                +8
                Klim Zhukov had a lecture about the Battle of Molodi, with troops there, not everything is going smoothly either. The number of Mongol-Tatars accepted by science is also disputed by him. In my opinion, and he gives inflated numbers. People at all times are the same in general. Therefore, the calculation of princely “troops” must be based on the usual number of organized crime groups, which they were at that time. I’m not a cop, so I don’t have numbers about the average number of soldiers in the brigade, but I think 100 people, this is a very large organization, perhaps in such numbers, only there were Kiev. Our neighbors had the same thing. So the horde in 5 of thousands of people could bend anyone. Under Molodi, of course, it was already over more people, but states were fighting there, and not engaged in disassembling the gang.
                1. Tula gingerbread
                  Tula gingerbread 22 December 2017 15: 27 New
                  15
                  Glory to those Lord, at least one sane comment, instead of fantasy.
                  Indeed, in the Middle Ages, armies could not be large.
                  This can be easily seen by looking at the number of fighters for example under Cressi and Poitiers, at Tannenberg, and the internecine battles in Russia.
                  Rarely, the number reached 10 thousand, and these were already large armies.
                  So the number of Mongols in 300 thousand, which school books stuffed us with, is very exaggerated. If it was 40-50 thousand, then this is a huge army.
                  It seems that they already wrote about this and I agree with this that if the conquests of the Goths and the Huns were possible, then why the conquests of the united Mongolian tribes, which included the creators of their own rather big state, the Tanguts and Merkits, were not possible.
                  Surprise statement, where are the Mongols now? But the same author is not at all surprised by the conquests of Alexander of Macedon, although he trampled on foot to India.
                  Well, where are the Macedonians now, may I ask? Where did the Huns go? Where did the goths go? Some state has remained from the Mongols, but is it ready from the famous conquerors?
                  Or here are statements that the Mongolian horses could not move in winter, they say they are not savvy.
                  But the Mongolian steppes also have severe winters and enough snow. There they could move around, but in Russia it turns out not.
                  And who said that they are not savvy? Horseshoes not found? And a lot of things were found at the battlefield of Grunwald-Tannenberg?
                  In fact, the iron was very valuable and it was collected.
                  Or did Plano Carpini say they were not savvy? But the author of the article himself writes that Karpini is lying in everything.
                  And if they were horses of the Rus, then they were certainly savvy.
                  And finally, if you do not believe in the conquest of the Mongols, then you can’t believe in the campaigns of the Crimean Tatars, it was also surely the "southern Rus", you can’t believe in the campaigns of Tamerlane, you can not believe in the campaigns of the Macedonians, Persians, Ottomans, Romans, etc. All these are fakes, because they are no better than the supposedly hiking of the Mongols.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 22 December 2017 16: 00 New
                    +3
                    The “problem” could or could not have come to Russia by the Tatars, now it is based on numbers. Spears break mainly in this matter. In my opinion, to solve it is to answer two questions, one of which, "but the chronicler writes darkness, is dark," and the second, "where is the log of the records of the flights?" If the first is decided by the fact that perhaps it was customary to write this way, then the second is not solvable. Without counting how much goods were collected in the treasury and how much it all cost, it is impossible to calculate the real feed base of the then brigades. We know roughly how much armor and weapons cost in the 14-16 centuries and from here, we calculate how many real soldiers were in the prince's squad. Klim Zhukov, for lack of books, takes mobilization ability, but she, of course, cannot answer 100 percent, to the question "how much?" I think that part of the "mobilization resource" did not fit into military service, because the lame, oblique, and simply weak were not shaved into heroes (still not Sparta, there was no evidence that weak children were being destroyed), some had abilities, for example, to entrepreneurship, "science" or some other activities not related to martial arts. In the end, well, our ancestors were not barbarians, since they could have left such a cultural pre-Mongol heritage.
                  2. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 22 December 2017 19: 53 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Tula gingerbread
                    Indeed, in the Middle Ages, armies could not be large.

                    That is, for developed Russians with a centralized supply, large armies could not, and for primitive Mongols - ... - could they?
                    1. Ulan
                      Ulan 23 December 2017 16: 07 New
                      +7
                      You forget one thing. In Russia, while throughout Europe, there was feudal fragmentation, and it took a long time to assemble a large army.
                      Remember how much the Prince of Vladimir collected the army on the River r.It and how many Dmitry Donskoy collected the army.
                      The Mongols at that time were a centralized entity with a rigid hierarchy established by Genghis Khan.
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 23 December 2017 18: 29 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Ulan
                        You forget one thing. In Russia, while throughout Europe, there was feudal fragmentation, and it took a long time to assemble a large army.

                        Fragmentation is an abstract concept, it is like now - there is Ukraine, there is Belarus, and there is Russia. So then there were small principalities, but there was a principality with a population of three million people, which was stronger than any nomadic formation.
                        Quote: Ulan
                        The Mongols at that time were a centralized entity with a rigid hierarchy established by Genghis Khan.

                        The Mongols did not have any centralization, and even more so there was no centralized supply of troops.
                      2. Alex1117
                        Alex1117 24 December 2017 22: 20 New
                        +3
                        Excuse me, may I ask what did you mean by suggesting "remembering"? Of course, I’m ready to admit that you are over 800 years old and recall your own deeds by one trillion trillionth of a unit. But let's omit this incredible probability. So, let's clarify, but what exactly do you propose to “remember”? Where did you get the information that a certain prince ...... and so on? There are no records of eyewitnesses, or at least contemporaries of the “event”. There is a mass of fiction, both secular and religious. Do you propose to drown something that is written 200-700 years after the so-called "fact of the event"? And further. You believe that it is enough to pronounce this spell: "The whole world was in shit, but the Mongols united under the leadership .... and so on and so on? No, not enough. Would you like to try to justify something with your statement? Please just do without references to the notorious passionarity, which suddenly suddenly covered all the Mongols and left the rest of the world.
                  3. xtur
                    xtur 23 December 2017 12: 14 New
                    0
                    > if the conquests of the Goths and the Huns were possible

                    It all depends on the specific conditions that make it possible or impossible to conquer a particular country.

                    > if the conquests of the Goths and the Huns were possible

                    that's the joke that they could not. Horses were not adapted for movement through the winter forest, and in those days, most of Russia were rivers and forests. The people lived only in a narrow strip along the rivers. That is, for the movement of cavalry in winter there were only rivers covered with ice

                    > And who said that they are not savvy?

                    a lot of contemporaries spoke about this, so don’t need to drive a blizzard if you don’t even know such a minuscule

                    > you can’t believe in the campaigns of the Crimean Tatars

                    Crimean Tatars had raids, not conquests - can you assess the difference yourself, or do you need help?

                    > you can not believe in the campaigns of the Macedonians, Persians, Ottomans, Romans

                    There is the concept of a military campaign - a carefully planned sequence of military operations in which everything was taken into account, starting with food, in the first place. And this is one of the reasons why RI had excellent roads, by the way. And any conquest of any country took many years, and not in one campaign, when they defeated and conquered Armenia and Georgia.

                    This is complete nonsense - both Armenia and Georgia are mountainous countries, before the Mongols the conquest of these countries took many years from any state (Rome, Iran, Arabs), and then all of a sudden sharply stupefied and weakened and gave themselves to conquer in one battle
                    1. Ulan
                      Ulan 23 December 2017 16: 14 New
                      +4
                      But why should you be rude, if you cannot refute? The Tula gingerbread wrote everything correctly, and you left your ears to the fact that the climate in the places where the Mongols came from, which by the way were called Tatars and filthy in Russia, the climate was even harsher and there were snow-capped rivers.
                      And you would have decided if the horses were savvy, then this is Russia, and if not, then thank you.
                      So the statement that the horses were NOT horseshoe is against you.
                      So you’ve already decided and this is yours - “a lot of contemporaries have talked about this,” ---- this can’t be proof, so it’s still not known who persecutes. At the bazaar, too, “many” say something. So the links and quotes, not allegations and insults of the opponent.
                      And this one - "they gave themselves to conquer in one battle" ----- speaks only of your ignorance of the subject about which you undertook to judge.
                      1. xtur
                        xtur 23 December 2017 19: 28 New
                        0
                        > Do you generally understand that when at least some ideas about humanism appeared in Europe

                        my dear, in the sentence to which you answered, I spoke about Armenia. And now you are claiming to me with a blue eye that you know the history of Armenia better than me?
                      2. Alex1117
                        Alex1117 25 December 2017 05: 58 New
                        +3
                        Your comment clearly demonstrates the fact that geography was not included in the list of your favorite school subjects. Otherwise, you would know that the climate of Mongolia is sharply continental. And this means that the winters in Mongolia, although cold, are very snowy. The normal snow depth in Mongolia is -20 cm. At the same time, Atlantic cyclones form the climate on the East European Plain, which create snow cover 10 times greater than in Mongolia. And further. The Mongols still in their Mongolia frozen rivers move exclusively at right angles, pre-sprinkling the crossing with sand (ground). You undertook to judge that in which you understand nothing. Geography did not have to skip school.
                      3. myobius59
                        myobius59 25 December 2017 10: 55 New
                        +2
                        Do not lie if you do not know. I served in Transbaikalia, at the junction of the border between China and Mongolia, and I know very well how much snow is in the steppe, and how much, for example, in our Kirov region. Back in the 70s of the last century, some houses in the villages were brought along the roof. Now, of course, it has become smaller, but it’s hard to go through the forest even on hunting skis.
                        Compared to Mongolia, there is simply no comparison. There is very little snow there. So before you write. you need at least some information.
                      4. Warrior-80
                        Warrior-80 26 December 2017 09: 34 New
                        +3
                        I think you are wrong, even in your own steppe, the Mongols lead a sedentary lifestyle in the winter period, get up for the winter and do not make big transitions
                    2. gunn
                      gunn 23 December 2017 21: 42 New
                      +3
                      And countless testimonies of European, Persian, Russian, Central Asian, Armenian. Georgian and Chinese sources?
                      What's this? World conspiracy of historians, from completely different ends of the world, have they contacted via Skype?
                      By the way, Subeday insisted for the western campaign of Batu, namely the winter campaign. The Mongolian horses became shady, and in the East European plain at that historical period there was reduced humidity, this was studied by geologists by the level of silty deposits of the Caspian, its level in those days was the lowest, snow was much less than in our time. There were large islands in the Caspian Sea, on one of which Mohamed died, now this island is under water. It was at this time that the steppe was drying up and the nomads moved from their usual nomads to feed themselves. The Gobi Desert consumed the steppe zone and the Mongols occupied all the lands adjacent to the Wall - Ordos, the war with China was inevitable ... And the conquest of China with its almost unlimited human, economic and intellectual resources allowed the newly created empire to develop further expansion to the west up to the Mediterranean Sea ...
              2. marline
                marline 22 December 2017 11: 05 New
                +1
                In general, I agree with you.
                Quote: ammunition
                Already lured by the "argument" .. type - there is nowhere to feed the horses laughing

                In winter? Nowhere. Napoleon proved that already in October there is nothing to feed them, and the local population does not give hay and oats, because it is greedy. It is also very interesting to read the recollection of our veterans who in the Second World War dismantled thatched roofs in order to feed the Mongolian horses as well. All, apparently, because horses are not hares and do not eat bark from trees.
                Quote: ammunition
                Devlet - Girey with his 150 equestrian warriors, which means there is where to feed. And Giray was leaving Crimea already in July! When the Colchis steppe turns yellow.

                Sorry for the question: do horses eat exclusively green hay? By the way, by the way, the steppes also harvest hay for the winter. Batu, Kipchakov and cut out - scouted all the hay supplies in the steppe and burned to hell, and without horses the Kipchaks immediately felt sad ...
                Quote: ammunition
                By the way! In Batu Khan, only 15 soldiers in the army were Mongols.

                I absolutely agree.
                Quote: ammunition
                Others are Kipchaks, Khakasses, Manchurians, Turgays .. etc.

                Sorry, but Batu before invading Russia cut out the Kipchaks.
                Quote: ammunition
                And what horses !!! The horses of Batu were of Mongolian breed. Exceptional among equine stamina people. wink

                Recently, I have distrust the word "exceptional".
                PS: Do not think that I deny the Mongol-Tatar invasion or yoke. It was!
                But I must note that some descriptions in some history textbooks, mainly based on the immortal work of Karamzin, do not like logic and common sense very much.
                1. Shahno
                  Shahno 22 December 2017 11: 11 New
                  +3
                  For me, Balashov’s not bad written about this. Although certainly not a historian, but it makes you think.
                  1. marline
                    marline 22 December 2017 11: 17 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Shahno
                    For me, Balashov’s not bad written about this. Although certainly not a historian, but it makes you think.

                    If my memory serves me, then Balashov was guided by Gumilyov.
                    1. Shahno
                      Shahno 22 December 2017 11: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: merlin
                      Quote: Shahno
                      For me, Balashov’s not bad written about this. Although certainly not a historian, but it makes you think.

                      If my memory serves me, then Balashov was guided by Gumilyov.

                      Not. I think the Gumilev hypotheses there percent. 50. But of interest is precisely the option of a holistic picture.
                      1. marline
                        marline 22 December 2017 12: 01 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Shahno
                        I think the Gumilev hypotheses there percent. fifty

                        Maybe. In general, I agree with you; Balashov’s turn out to be interesting.
                2. Mic1969
                  Mic1969 23 December 2017 08: 14 New
                  +3
                  "Sorry for the question: do horses eat exclusively green hay?"

                  Sorry for the question, but do you know how hay differs from straw?
                  1. marline
                    marline 24 December 2017 15: 16 New
                    0
                    Quote: Mic1969
                    Sorry for the question, but do you know how hay differs from straw?

                    I know
                3. xtur
                  xtur 23 December 2017 12: 20 New
                  0
                  > apparently, because horses are not hares and do not eat bark from trees.

                  you are new to the mythology that has developed around the Mongol conquest, a week ago I read an article about Mongol horses on a conta, and there they seriously showed that besides meat, these horses eat everything - including roots, and tree bark.
                  1. ammunition
                    ammunition 23 December 2017 17: 05 New
                    +4
                    Quote: xtur
                    , and there, in all seriousness, they proved that in addition to meat, these horses eat everything - including roots, and the bark of trees.


                    Actually .. look at the video about the Yakut horses, which for 9 months of the year eat what they dig out from under the snow. And young tree branches .. like moose .. too. wink
                    1. xtur
                      xtur 23 December 2017 19: 30 New
                      +1
                      > And young tree branches .. like moose .. too. wink

                      well, that is, you can fight with them in the forest, right?
                    2. marline
                      marline 24 December 2017 15: 21 New
                      +1
                      Quote: ammunition
                      Actually .. look at the video about the Yakut horses, which for 9 months of the year eat what they dig out from under the snow. And young tree branches .. like moose .. too. wink

                      All breeds of horses at Tebenevka eat everything that they can dig out from under the snow, including young branches, because you want to eat. But the bark ... no, because not hares ...
                    3. myobius59
                      myobius59 25 December 2017 10: 50 New
                      0
                      And on these horses EVERY DAY drive 50 km ?. And in a month more than a thousand?
                    4. ermolenkomb
                      ermolenkomb 26 December 2017 14: 13 New
                      +1
                      a small nuance, a herd of no more than 10 goals, and over a large territory
              3. Spnsr
                Spnsr 22 December 2017 13: 50 New
                +3
                Quote: ammunition
                The Battle of Molodi has not yet been disputed.

                Well, one should immediately decide whether the Mongols are Türks, or the Türks are Mongols!
                If the Crimean Tatars are not Mongols, and the Ottomans are not Mongols, then the battle of Molodi should not be dragged to the Mongol invasion!
                1. ammunition
                  ammunition 22 December 2017 15: 00 New
                  +3
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  the battle of Molodi is not necessary to drag the Mongol invasion!


                  Giray's invasion is taken as a good example mass (all male adult population of Crimea and part from the North Caucasus) equestrian invasion.
                  In the sense, this fact is refuted by the argument - That a large mounted army cannot go, because there is nothing for horses. -))
                  If Giray found food, then Batu would have found it all the more.
                  1. Spnsr
                    Spnsr 22 December 2017 18: 42 New
                    0
                    Quote: ammunition
                    Kettlebell taken as a good example
                  2. Spnsr
                    Spnsr 22 December 2017 22: 05 New
                    +2
                    Quote: ammunition
                    Giray's invasion is taken as a good example

                    Quote: ammunition
                    Giray's invasion is taken as a good example

                    A message from history, Tatars are Mongols, contrary to the statement, Tatars are a Caucasian race
                    1. Spnsr
                      Spnsr 22 December 2017 23: 03 New
                      +2
                      the humor is that in the history of the invasion of the Crimean Tatars they try to present us as an attempt by the Mongol to regain its influence in Moscow ...
                      and in the end, we only have that after the Ottomans captured Tsargrad, Tsargrad lost its meaning, but the daughter of the ruler could give the rulers in Russia the opportunity to demand the return of the throne, which was later announced by Ivan the Terrible 4, which the Ottomans could not did not answer, and their army, the so-called Crimean Tatars, responded to the expense, although Crimea did not even belong to the Tatars then, anyone lived there, the Tatars, who were called Tatars only at the end of the 18th century, were all servants, but only under the rule of Tsarigrad Ottomans donkey themselves blei for so many, with the loss of servicemen, that they could not reassemble, they still call it the Ataman empire in the old borders! at the same time, the first fragments of the so-called Ataman empire begin to form, under the influence of the British. they climbed not only to America, but also to Asia, the formation of Persia in India, China, Japan ...
                      1. Anasti
                        Anasti 27 December 2017 00: 19 New
                        +1
                        The vowels of the Dee under the In-matriarchy of the Halakhah, the Jews, did indeed come from the south, capturing the north. Ingoland coordinated world crime, but the performers were Erbins R1b and Jay J. Ancestors of the Tatars and Caucasians.
                    2. Ulan
                      Ulan 23 December 2017 16: 18 New
                      +2
                      Kazan yes, but it is a mixture of Tatars with Volga Bulgars.
              4. ermolenkomb
                ermolenkomb 26 December 2017 14: 12 New
                +2
                one horse eats 7 kg of forage per day at least, if it is hay, then twice as much, there is no time to eat pasture during the horse’s transition, and this is impossible with such a large number of them. 150 horses will eat 1 million kg DAILY !!! Note also that in the direction of Mongolia there are still few roads, then even more so. Another nuance from Ryazan to Mongolia is about 4500 km, with an average speed of 15-20 km per day (I repeat through the taiga, forests, fields, unclean steppe) it is almost a year's walk. In addition to horses, you need to feed the riders, the same wagon train grows ... Again, all this must be taken somewhere, it was not possible to get such a quantity of supplies anywhere
              5. Anasti
                Anasti 27 December 2017 00: 12 New
                +1
                The Mongols, this maggala, is pronounced brazier, arias from Transbaikal Artania. They really marched west. Serbs from Serica, the silk province of Tartaria, marched with them. They are part of the World, the territory of the Aryans and settled quietly. They attributed the war of predators Iga, Ying, I-beginning, slave traders who moved from the south.
              6. reg
                reg 28 December 2017 00: 41 New
                +1
                Quote: ammunition
                And what horses !!! The horses of Batu were of Mongolian breed. Exceptional among equine stamina people.

                Maybe Batu Khan had some very good horses. Only no traces of a 300 year tribute in Mongolia were found. Moreover, the assumption that this movement did not go east to west, but rather, from west to east, is not without common sense. And so on up to the Great Wall of China, which was built on the border of progress. To the north of which China lived. And to the south, tea houses. The loopholes of this wall were located in the direction of the tea houses.
                In addition, there is a basis for the version that Catherine did not just send Yermak and other Likhodeys to Siberia. She clearly knew where and what to look for. Because the path there was already beaten once before.
            5. reg
              reg 28 December 2017 00: 31 New
              +2
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              It’s a pity to ruin your fantastic picture of the world, but ...

              And yours too.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              In the understanding of Europeans, Tataria is the Horde with the states repaired by it.

              Tartaria also had an administrative division. The administrative unit of Tartaria was Moscow Tartaria. Later, after the collapse of the Horde and the transition to Christianity, just Muscovy. Later Great Russia. Now it is part of Russia.
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Therefore, Russia, as a tributary of the Horde on the maps, was included in its composition.

              Russia (aka Kievan Rus and many other similar names) was later called Little Russia. Now it is part of Ukraine.
            6. tuchkovskij
              tuchkovskij 21 February 2018 14: 40 New
              +1
              Mavro Orbini, an Italian Catholic monk, wrote the Slavonic historiosophy in 1601, and in 2010 was published in a modern Russian translation under the title Slavic Kingdom. There about Tartaria and others
              Maybe he, too, for the sake of the Orthodox, Russian, wrote this folio? :) ...
          2. 32363
            32363 21 December 2017 14: 06 New
            +2
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria. It is also in the drawing book of Siberia, Remezov. There are Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling. And who said that the inhabitants of Tartaria were pagans .. Sun worshipers, yes, and this is primarily an understanding of their environment and its place in Space. They cherished their habitat, not like "true followers of different faiths", such as Christianity ,, Islam, Judaism ... These can only be taken! What, for example, is the attitude now to the bowels, bioresources? Nowhere else to go. The purpose of the campaign of tartaria was not enslavement, but to liberate the fraternal community of people from the consequences of Western influence. The essence of “Christians2 is from the Vatican. Like now from Uncle Sam’s Shrewd Democrats. (Still ahead) Historical development is a spiral, everything repeats.

            good
          3. Dzungar
            Dzungar 21 December 2017 20: 14 New
            12
            The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and the Will to freedom, which was not killed, no matter what. Through the Joy of Great Victories, and the bitterness of great losses ... Through hard work during the wars and creative work after the wars ... Through hundreds and thousands of burnt cities and villages, and even more rebuilt ... Through the seas of shed sweat and seas shed both their own and others ’blood ... All this - FOR MANY CENTURIES - AND NO MORE ...! Not for a second fantasizing about its alien origin. without thinking at all, and not even allowing the thought that the descendants would suddenly say that “it wasn’t. All of this fiction happened all by itself, we are great by ourselves, we are from outer space .... We sat with folded legs on our tummy, and everything just happened so simply. We just looked simply and ate popcorn ... "Denying the past, the history of our Great Ancestors, because of our pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -" no, not there was this, this simply could not be .. "by this you do not simply deny your past - YOU DESTROY IT E. You say: THERE WASN'T THESE OUR ANCESTORS, IN A TERRIBLE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY FOR THE AGES OF FORGIVING THE UNFIBERABLE SPIRIT OF THE PEOPLE .... It is with the external, and not in the internal internecine wars and squabbles of the Russian, when the brother goes There is no valor or honor in this internal internecine massacre. It doesn’t add anything to the people, it doesn’t give anything — neither the addition of the power of the Spirit, nor the Will to Victory and Freedom ... and What you know about the victories of the Russian people, about its Spirit and ability to fight for their Earth and their Faith - WHERE IT ALL TAKEN ...? If you believe it - IN THE INTERNAL GRAVE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS, IT IS SHAMNESS TOGETHER WHEN YOURS KILL YOURS ..... Did not think your Great ancestors didn’t guess that their descendants would be able to succumb to these nonsense ... They completely shredded .. All their Great works are worthless .. Not it turned out to be ... In vain they endured 240 years, perished, accumulated strength, gathered their Earth and people in one fist so that at one point they would bring down the Enemy with all their might .... In vain they later repelled the attacks and raids both from the south, from the west, and from the east .... You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia and like in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes. AND ALL LAWS OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT ARE APPLICABLE TO YOU. Applicable and required. AND ONLY THE SEVERE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY TARGING YOU TO WORK OR DESTROY FOR YOUR OWN SURVIVAL FOR AGES HAS MADE YOU SUCH ... Great people. And now you are destroying the memory of these centuries with your own hands ... What can this lead to ...? THE PEOPLE FORGOTTEN HIS HISTORY - DOOMED TO REPEAT IT AGAIN ....
            1. KaPToC
              KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 45 New
              +5
              Quote: Dzungar
              And they become Great after going through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others

              So become losharas, terpily.
              Quote: Dzungar
              You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia, as in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes.

              Such - and not so, racial differences have not disappeared.
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 21 December 2017 22: 37 New
                +1
                Are you not HOMO SAPIENS ...? And who are you ...? Aliens from Sirius ...? Sorry, sorry ... You are with Alpha Centauri ....
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 21 December 2017 23: 39 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  Are you not HOMO SAPIENS ...?

                  "Homosapiens" "homosapiens" is different, on Earth there are at least five races of "homosapiens" apart from relict, endangered races. In addition, the sapience of some "homo" is in doubt.
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  And who are you ...? Aliens from Sirius ...?

                  If a person does not know how to joke, it is better for him not to do this at all.
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  You are with Alpha Centauri ....

                  The origin of man is an open question.
                  1. Dzungar
                    Dzungar 22 December 2017 12: 51 New
                    +5
                    All homo sapiens on earth represent ONE appearance, because without any problems they interbreed and give offspring. VIEW is the extreme stage of diversity. In full form it looks like this - TYPE - CLASS - Squad - FAMILY - GENUS - VIEW. And since all homo sapiens are on the same level, all YOUR conversations about the difference between them are the fruit of your chauvinist and nationalist imagination
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 22 December 2017 19: 44 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      All homo sapiens on earth represent ONE appearance, because without any problems they interbreed and give offspring.

                      Some species may interbreed, some not - this is not proof.
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      All homo sapiens on earth represent ONE look

                      It may be one species, but the races are different and the crossing is not so smooth - as you try to assure us.
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 22 December 2017 20: 02 New
                        +2
                        Yes, no normally crossed.
                        I love the mulattos myself. I’ll send the proof in six months. And now only ultrasound.
                      2. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 25 December 2017 19: 18 New
                        +1
                        the races are different and the crossing is not going so smoothly - as you try to assure us.


                        bullshit, old man ... *))) Examples of interspecific crossbreeding are Ligra and Tigrolva, or hoes with mules there - they, yes, do not give offspring. But the hybrid offspring with parents of different racial backgrounds, spite your delusional fantasies, for some reason the beautiful ones themselves turn out and perfectly produce their children ... *)) damn it, how many Natsik divorced, with their delusional "ideas" ... *) )))
                    2. ermolenkomb
                      ermolenkomb 26 December 2017 14: 19 New
                      +2
                      Wolves with dogs also cross, but they are not one species, just like horses and donkeys
                      1. de_monSher
                        de_monSher 26 December 2017 19: 54 New
                        +1
                        Canis lupus - common wolf; Canis aureus - "golden wolf", jackal; Canis lupus familar - "an ordinary wolf, domestic", a dog in general ... I beg you not to CONFUSE, species and subspecies ... Anyway, go to learn the materiel ... *) all these subspecies, of the same species, perfectly cross each other friend ... *)
              2. Dzungar
                Dzungar 4 January 2018 17: 38 New
                +1
                Quote: KaPToC
                So become losharas, terpily.

                You yes, you are exactly ..... These are your words, I didn’t call you that
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 4 January 2018 22: 59 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  You yes, you are exactly ..... These are your words, I didn’t call you that

                  That you so petty self-assertion, insulting others. Moreover, I note that you insult the people, thanks to which you generally survived, and did not perish, received statehood and independence from the hands of the Russian people. And now you bark like a pug at an elephant.
                  The Germans wrote a false story for the Russians, believed in their lies and came to conquer these Russians, whom you considered suckers, to remind you of what ended the Great Patriotic War?
            2. Seal
              Seal 22 December 2017 12: 41 New
              +5
              Why shout like that? Oh yeah, who has no evidence, no arguments, no logic - he takes with a cry and pathos. hi
              Denying the past, the history of their Great Ancestors, because of their pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -

              Verily speak. Only the smallest little souls can deny the natural normal and quite peaceful history of their ancestors, having bought on the ideas inspired by the Vatican of the "bloody history of their ancestors" supposedly conquering half the world. These smallest little souls, now making a no-brainer gesheft on their supposedly Great and supposedly Bloody ancestor, spit for their own benefit that the Vatican from their ancestors created terrible monsters that still scare the world.
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 23 December 2017 07: 58 New
                +2
                When someone blames someone else for their problems, he thereby says - I AM WEAK, I DO NOT DECIDE MY FATE. OTHERS DECIDE MY FATE. I can’t stop them .... This applies to both individuals and peoples ... Your lamentations about the fact that someone there destroyed something, misrepresented, redid your story - these are exactly the complaints of a weak man who is not capable of himself to change something in their fate, to the machinations of others, more powerful. I am SURE that there are a minority of people like you among the Russians, FOR THE GREAT PEOPLE WHICH THE RUSSIANS ARE PROVEN TO EVERYTHING THAT THEY ARE STRONG, AND WE ARE USING THE OTHERS OF OTHERS .... And your alleged answer is that "you are just doing it now - become strong and rebuild your story "is nothing more than wiping snot from a broken muzzle AND UNACCEPTABLE FOR THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE STRONG PEOPLE WHICH THE RUSSIAN WAS ALWAYS
            3. Anasti
              Anasti 27 December 2017 00: 20 New
              +1
              In-formatting.
            4. Iskander-Khan
              Iskander-Khan 7 March 2018 00: 35 New
              0
              Well said ... Sorry
          4. Dzungar
            Dzungar 21 December 2017 20: 17 New
            +7
            .
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There are Vedas, Slavic-Aryan. They are also not taken from the ceiling.

            But nothing that these your "Vedas" were written by a Jew Khinevich ....?
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 12 New
              +9
              Quote: Dzungar
              But nothing that these your "Vedas" were written by a Jew Khinevich ....?

              ????? belayLike you, the ancient gesture of greeting from the heart to the sun has made a symbol of Nazism. And the Rainbow is a symbol of buggers. negative
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 21 December 2017 22: 31 New
                +5
                Do you deny the authorship of the Vedas by Hinevich ....? Gyy Sami then read these "Vedas" ...?
                Wild crazy mix of Russian fairy tales, Scandinavian sagas and many other garbage ......
              2. Dzungar
                Dzungar 22 December 2017 12: 54 New
                +3
                Well, what about the Jewish authorship of your "native Russian book - Slavic-Aryan Vedas" ...? I understand how it is unpleasant for you, but please be kind - understand that you and people like you are just an impersonal mass, called to be an instrument in someone’s hands
                1. Seal
                  Seal 25 December 2017 08: 32 New
                  +4
                  The combination of the great-power "Mongolian" (Oirat-Mongolian) chauvinism and anti-Semitism in your neighborhood is side by side with your assurances of the desire for peace and friendship with all peoples. As they say, either remove the cross or put on your underpants.
                  1. Dzungar
                    Dzungar 3 January 2018 10: 06 New
                    0
                    No
                    Quote: Seal
                    The combination of the great-power "Mongolian" (Oirat-Mongolian) chauvinism and anti-Semitism.

                    here, for my part, no .. And you can’t confirm this in terms of my words. These are only YOUR words, AND EVERYTHING ... And why do you just mention the name "Jew" is a sign of anti-Semitism ....? Judging by the fact that the Jews seek that their name is not mentioned at all, or is spoken in a whisper. And just mentioning it would be an act of anti-Semitism, it’s worth concluding that YOU ARE JEWS AND YOURSELF ... And since you are actively pedaling the theme of “Russian superiority”, it would seem unrelated to you, we can conclude THIS MOST ONCE JUST ATTEMPTS TO INTRODUCE DISTRESS AND BATTLE BETWEEN THE PEOPLES .... Question: what else can you expect from another ....?
              3. tlauicol
                tlauicol 22 December 2017 13: 49 New
                +2
                Ingvar, explain to your grandfather / great-grandfather about the "Slavic" ridge, and let it harket you in the face!
          5. E_V_N
            E_V_N 21 December 2017 23: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            There were no Tatar-Mongols, but there was Great Tartaria.

            The very name of Tartary meant "distant lands", that is, the outskirts of something big, according to an article by the superethnos of Rusov. Hence, for example, the concept of "failing in tartarara (to Tartaria, far away) And this means that the center was still in the European part of modern Russia. Therefore, Igo is just an uprising of the outskirts against the weakened Center.
            1. Anasti
              Anasti 27 December 2017 00: 30 New
              +2
              Tartaria, subsequently territory, meant the land of the Aryans. T-firmly, Ar-light, manifested world, stopped energy. Tara is a planet in duality with sky-light-Sun Ar. Horde Arda Erde, organized space for people. Hence the order and other structural concepts. I-th (state) from the I-beginning, In-matriarchy of the Lunite predators of the south. From them the same and-change of values ​​of the Aryans understand-be able to suppress-have.
          6. The comment was deleted.
          7. bodzu
            bodzu 22 December 2017 12: 25 New
            +2
            From that time, the Tara River remained in Siberia.
          8. Captain45
            Captain45 22 December 2017 15: 26 New
            +3
            Quote: Evgeniy667b
            The purpose of the campaign of tartaria was not enslavement, but to liberate the fraternal community of people from the consequences of Western influence.

            And the best form of liberation of the fraternal community is to cut out all the inhabitants and burn the city to hell like Ryazan, Kiev. Then, obviously, the harmful Western influence did not extend to the Scythian-Aryan-Tartary brothers.
          9. Pre-cat
            Pre-cat 25 December 2017 22: 24 New
            +1
            And on those maps of the monster, unprecedented portraits were also depicted. And the land is still undiscovered laughing
          10. alexx-fenix
            alexx-fenix 26 December 2017 10: 05 New
            +1
            Where did you take us Susanin hero ?,,
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 21 December 2017 12: 10 New
          15
          He has only knowledge gleaned from communication with knowledgeable people. Like this! And the bribes are smooth. No labors, nothing ... labors - they work from the word. And then pure knowledge gained in communication! Neither you nor I can understand this.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 21 December 2017 08: 14 New
        41
        Links, links to archeology data. I have a museum in Penza in the Zolotarevsky settlement. In it are a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia. Stirrups, saber crosshairs. During the excavation, broken skulls, characteristic pin-tops and much more were found. What does the author refer to? Such articles without links all the same as sandpaper sold instead of toilet paper!
        1. venaya
          venaya 21 December 2017 08: 42 New
          22
          Quote: kalibr
          Links, links to archeology data. I have a museum in Penza in the Zolotarevsky settlement. It has a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia ..

          Please be more precise in expressions: Mongolia as a country arose in the XNUMXth century, and now there live tribes that did not call themselves that in the XNUMXth century, because the word even appeared only in the XNUMXth century and not among them. Whether the people of these tribes lived on that territory is an open question that has not yet been proven by anyone, but that there still existed there a civilization of tall, brown-haired Russ-moguls (please do not confuse with the term "Mongol"), and genetically close to the Rus of the Great Russian Plain, evidence is currently available. By the way, how was it possible to "prove" that these tips were used by tribes, for example hulk, because people of completely different ethnic groups lived there, more often at different times. So these tips can not give enough reason to be unambiguously defined as exclusively "Mongolian".
          1. forty-eighth
            forty-eighth 21 December 2017 09: 16 New
            20
            And Italy as a country arose in the XNUMXth century, as did Germany. Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?
            1. venaya
              venaya 21 December 2017 10: 05 New
              20
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?

              The Romans - who are the inhabitants of the city of Rome and its environs? Then the existence of the city itself in those years should be denied, which I never did. Another thing is what peoples, tribes these inhabitants consisted of, so I constantly write about it that at different times they were completely different people belonging to different ethnic groups, while they still remained Romans, that is, residents of this city. A more complicated question is about some “Germans,” the term itself seems to be of Latin origin, only from what ethnic groups, tribes, etc. were these "Germans"? It’s clear that this is not a self-name but a certain nickname (drove) for foreigners regarding Rome, such as “barbarians”, etc. As for "Germany," I have serious doubts that the inhabitants of ancient Russia - Veneda themselves would call themselves the Latin term, now they call themselves "Deutsch", but not so long ago, and the country is called Deutschland. Why do you use the Latin name, do you need a highly developed Russian language? For example, in all dialects of the Russian language (Slavic) this country is truly called in Russian like "Nimechina", Scandinavians: "Tyskland", Romance speakers: "Alemania", Karelian-Finns: "Saksa" - this is also a Russian term, etc. d. So it’s not very correct to talk about certain “Germanic tribes”, but generally about “tribes”. This question more consists of the field of linguistics, so do not pedal it, and they have already written about this here more than once.
              1. Barcid
                Barcid 21 December 2017 12: 49 New
                28
                Venya, you would be foolish to write novels, and you write articles. Although even the article is somehow miserable. I don’t even want to criticize, do not touch, as they say. And graphomania is treated with electroshock.
                1. venaya
                  venaya 21 December 2017 13: 17 New
                  13
                  Wow, another Natsik appeared - a true "historian" professional. And why do you Natsik so dislike Russia-Venus? You surely all conspired, ethno-religious organized crime group, thieves in the sense. So, with your works you get all kinds of different "Kievan Rus", then in Polish "Ukraina" - because you are not local and you are in my country for us ..at. They turned on the fan to the full, apparently felt their end, and that’s nice.
              2. RUSS
                RUSS 21 December 2017 15: 03 New
                +6
                Quote: venaya
                The Romans - who are the inhabitants of the city of Rome and its environs?

                The first Romans are Italian tribes: Latins, Italians, etc.
                1. venaya
                  venaya 21 December 2017 15: 38 New
                  11
                  Quote: RUSS
                  The first Romans are Italian tribes: Latins, Italians, etc.

                  That is, it turns out that the founders of Rome itself - the Etruscans (not self-name) were not Romans? By the way, I remind you: the State of the Kingdom of Italy was born only in the 1861st year. And what "Italian tribes" in this case could live in ancient Rome? There is a clear shift of concepts in time. Please be careful in terminology. By the way, the "Latins" (united) are hardly an ethnic group proper, most likely even by their name - it is a combined hodgepodge of people from different parts of the Mediterranean.
                  1. RUSS
                    RUSS 21 December 2017 16: 38 New
                    +6
                    Quote: venaya
                    That is, it turns out that the founders of Rome itself - the Etruscans (not self-name) were not Romans?

                    Latins founded Rome, not Etruscan.
                    1. venaya
                      venaya 21 December 2017 16: 53 New
                      12
                      Quote: RUSS
                      Latins founded Rome, not Etruscan.

                      This message of yours is revolutionary in historical science, this discovery must be urgently published in all historical periodicals, maybe someone will agree with this discovery of yours, because everything happens in our World.
                      1. RUSS
                        RUSS 21 December 2017 17: 50 New
                        11
                        Are you laughing Or are you really dumb?
                        LATINS - Italian tribes inhabiting Lazio (modern. Lazio). In the beginning. 1st millennium BC e. united in the Latin Union. According to tradition, Latins and Sabines founded Rome (754/753 BC) ... Big Encyclopedic Dictionary.
                        You to the card
                        Take a look at the Apennine Peninsula in ancient times and see where Latins lived, where Etruscan, and do you even know that they were at enmity with another?
                      2. Iskander-Khan
                        Iskander-Khan 22 December 2017 04: 18 New
                        +6
                        ... and I personally like your point of view .. venaya ... by the way, the inscriptions on the burials of the Etruscans were deciphered with the help of an Old Slavonic letter ... Rome arose thanks to the Etruscans
                    2. terro
                      terro 21 December 2017 20: 44 New
                      +2
                      Correctly! Do not listen to them! Latins are the true ancestors of the Vatican, the founders of Rome, the Swiss!
              3. Anasti
                Anasti 27 December 2017 00: 50 New
                +3
                Dei from dei-deyat. Che - in this case, a person. So they called themselves quite Russian. Che is generally part of a lot, fish in a jamb. Therefore, man, fisherman-dei.
                Understanding the language was discredited, because it is a return to the memory of the people.
                Herman is a changeling. Mana Moon - The Moon. Beckon, deception from this name. But man is a man. Er-Ar - The sun and also a man, arias.
                Rome is Peace, and the city was Roma. This also needs to be promoted.
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 13: 52 New
              +7
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Italy as a country arose in the 19th century, as did Germany. Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?

              Was there a genetic analysis of the Romans and modern Italians? Modern Germans and "then" Germans? The concept of "Germanic tribes" extended to a very large "crowd." Have many of them survived to our times in the genes of modern Germans? The same question applies to the theme "Romans-Italians" ...
            3. KaPToC
              KaPToC 21 December 2017 19: 07 New
              12
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Will you also deny the existence of the Romans and Germanic tribes?

              We will deny it. The Romans on the Italian peninsula - the invention of historians - the Romans - are Romanians, the Slavs lived on the territory of modern Germany. It is not for nothing that the Germans are called Germans - dumb - who have lost their speech. They have lost the Russian language as once the Poles, but now this process is going on in Ukraine.
              1. alatanas
                alatanas 22 December 2017 14: 43 New
                +3
                Go directly to Bucharest - there they will arrange a banquet! laughing lol
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 22 December 2017 19: 46 New
                  +2
                  Quote: alatanas
                  Go directly to Bucharest - there they will arrange a banquet!

                  And tell me which state the city of Constanta belongs to near the mouth of the Danube? The Catholic will sound like Constantinople.
                  1. alatanas
                    alatanas 29 December 2017 17: 54 New
                    0
                    Before it became Romanian (1878) it was called Kyustendzha.
              2. andrew42
                andrew42 5 March 2018 09: 37 New
                0
                Hm, yes the Poles did not lose Slavic speech. Bend over. Until now, more than 50% of the text is read in Latin without translation, especially if there are old Russian words in my memory. By ear, yes, it’s complicated. For example, the name of the city of Zdzyazhec (in the Subcarpathian Voivodeship) my boss never learned to pronounce :))
            4. Spnsr
              Spnsr 21 December 2017 19: 44 New
              +5
              Quote: forty-eighth
              Germanic tribes

              As one movie hero says, what is your evidence! What is your evidence that they were? Indeed, in the annals they are not, there are different Germans there, I emphasize different, but something about the Germans is somehow not there! But they begin to appear at Bismarck, in the midst of the fragmentation of Europe or the so-called partition of Poland!
              1. Lenivets2
                Lenivets2 23 December 2017 13: 34 New
                +4
                You are joking?

                Strabo and Tacitus wrote about the Germans in the first century AD (and not only them).
                Is this not enough for you?
                Where does this come from: “After all, they are not in the annals”?
                In whose annals are they not?
                1. Spnsr
                  Spnsr 23 December 2017 19: 40 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Lenivets2
                  You are joking?

                  Strabo and Tacitus wrote about the Germans in the first century AD (and not only them).
                  Is this not enough for you?
                  Where does this come from: “After all, they are not in the annals”?
                  In whose annals are they not?

                  Not at all!
                  You still do not drag the legends and myths of ancient Greece! Although there may be more truth expressed allegorically!
                  You better note the extra noise, and maybe the real story will appear to you.
                  1. Lenivets2
                    Lenivets2 23 December 2017 19: 55 New
                    +2
                    "Not at all!
                    You still do not drag the legends and myths of ancient Greece! Although there may be more truth expressed allegorically!
                    You’d better note the extra noise, and maybe the real story will appear to you. "

                    What language do you write? recourse

                    Try to set up your translator and answer: so in whose annals are they not?
                    1. Spnsr
                      Spnsr 25 December 2017 00: 33 New
                      +2
                      [quote = Lenivets2]
                      What language do you write? recourse [/ quote]
                      I apologize that I could not fully answer, I could read, but an attempt to answer when distracted led to a similar result!
                      [quote = Lenivets2] "Not at all!
                      You still weave here the legends and myths of ancient Greece! Although there may be more truth expressed allegorically! than in a story that defends someone’s interests
                      You’d better notice the extra noise, and maybe the real story itself will appear to you. "
                      I do not reject mythology; on the contrary, I believe that there are real events in a veiled form.
                      but it happens that they find the text, emphasize it, and literally a year later there is work with archaeologists, historians and other brethren who are trying to provide a refutation or bring confusion into the consciousness of those who have already perceived as a ray of truth in the whole stream it is not clear what
                      you can start from today, and step back from it, through all the events that are described, and many are obvious and objective, in view of our personal perception, and you can see those who are interested, and from the theory of repeatability of events, come to events more distant, but for now there is no potency to repeat.
                      and this is a bit ago, [quote]: so whose chronicles do not have them? [/ quote] are not at all vocal, if only in the letter of entry to the Romanov’s canteen! and it’s more like a bookmark !!!
                      and a little about the story!
                      We all see St. George the Victorious. in Western stories, he is one of the military leaders of some Turkish king, only one, given that Turkey was born at the beginning of the last century, and then with the help of Soviet leaders.
                      in others, also western, George the Victorious was almost a gladiator slave, and it was Augustus (the first person in the empire) who made him almost the head of his guard!
                      and only in Russia, George the Victorious on all emblems, be it the emblem of Moscow, or some other federal structure! besides, only in Russia did “some kind of tsar” go to battle with Lik. or do you really think that what the church is trying to unconsciously preserve for us, albeit in a somewhat distorted form, since the Romanovs are participating there, is it just some kind of religion? have you ever been embarrassed that next to the icons, most often the Mother of God, are photographs of direct ancestors?
                      I believe in God, our Father who lives in heaven, His Son, who tried to make our world better, and the Holy Spirit is in each of us, but which we lose, and only after going through losses, difficulties and hardships, we return again!
                      and so, about Western legends, Augustus, having conquered the world, decided to change it a little, now they would call it to make him more socially oriented, for which he was killed by the feudal lords, as this made them weakened, and before that, Augustus does one of gladiators as the chief of his guard, having previously freed from duty to be a slave and a gladiator. but Augustus is killed, for which the gladiator himself begins to implement the idea of ​​Augustus!
                      what is not the story? and Augustus and George the Victorious slaying the dragon! and here you can see the history associated with the horde! not tacitus with, forgive me, with the product from the sex shop!
                      back to Ivan the Terrible!
                      doesn’t it seem strange to you that in Western history Tsargrad plays such a small role, but at the same time, there are maps on which the Ataman empire is of enormous size, by the way the same as Tartaria with its capital in Constantinople (Tsargrad)? and only Europe, begins to acquire some features of the modern political map? on which is the subject (part) now it is called eastern Europe, to the Urals? and despite the fact that these maps are of the 18th century, and if we take the Ataman empire, is there only a reference to the territory before 1452?
                      and so, after the capture of Constantinople by the Ottomans (I write by the Ottomans, since it seems more like they were not Turks, but they began to become Turks at the end of the 18th century, trying to emphasize their difference, after it was not possible to repeat Tamerlane’s campaign and reunite ataman empire only under its command)
                      the Ataman empire began to burst at the seams, including in southern Europe, in which the British seized the initiative, these events are also called reconquest, and in eastern Europe, a little later, the Romanovs - a war with the so-called Poles (as the nation appeared no earlier than the second half of the 18th century after the first section of the speech of the Commonwealth or at Karamzin’s Western Slavs), the defeats of the so-called Swedes, who also tried to unite the Western Slavs, and it’s not even that they seized part of the Eastern Slavs, just such a large state there shouldn’t have been (doesn’t it remind of today, 70 years ago, hundred years ago, Napoleon?)
                      I do not want to argue about the Mongoloidness of Genghis Khan! or Augustus! I just want to emphasize that racial concepts, such as the Europioid Mongoloid, or qualification appeared at the end of the 18th century, then the idea of ​​ethnic groups, nationalities, nations began to form ... I think you understand what I mean?
                      and if you carefully monitor the events of today, it will become obvious how nations, states .... appear, and at least this will give a slightly different look at history!
                      for example, Persia, split off from the Ataman empire after the Ottomans seized power in Constantinople, and in the last century it was divided by at least another 2. so many examples can be cited, and North and South Korea, and Europe, in the type of historical sources the talk is Polish-Lithuanian, and the Russian Empire and the USSR with the advent of the newly formed republics, which would not exist, or with the participation of England, there was something else, for example, Afghanistan.
                      and when you look at it, you begin to understand that the Mongols are like being a full-fledged participant! England - yes, the French, almost the same as the winners of the Great Patriotic War - yes, at the last stage of the USA - from the last century - yes, some European countries as members of certain coalitions - yes, but neither Mongolia nor China is visible , neither Poland, nor other participants - limitrophs !!!
                      Isn't that a story?!? and where real !!!
                      1. Anasti
                        Anasti 27 December 2017 00: 58 New
                        +1
                        England, either, there is Ingoland from John. Therefore the queen.
                  2. Lenivets2
                    Lenivets2 24 December 2017 22: 26 New
                    +2
                    Already a day has passed, but you still could not set up your translator.
                    I'm sorry. hi
          2. johnik
            johnik 21 December 2017 10: 09 New
            +6
            In Mongolia, your dinosaurs lived, in the desert there are many skulls ... History is not a science!
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 21 December 2017 17: 11 New
              +6
              And that’s right !!! From this one: You won’t run away on a small, hairy moped !!! laughing Shah and checkmate of history !!! laughing
              1. Was mammoth
                Was mammoth 22 December 2017 21: 06 New
                +3
                Quote: HanTengri
                Shah and checkmate of history !!! laughing

                Is there a Mongol in the photo?
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 23 December 2017 12: 07 New
                  +6
                  Mongoloed. They ate all the Mongols in the Jurassic, so there wasn’t any yoke! wassat
                  1. Razvedka_Boem
                    Razvedka_Boem 23 December 2017 20: 07 New
                    +2
                    Mongoloed. They ate all the Mongols in the Jurassic

                    Heh.) I support.
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 23 December 2017 21: 05 New
                      +2
                      Katta Rahmat, countryman! And then, after all, it is so difficult to carry the light of true knowledge into the dark realm of official science! crying laughing
          3. Alexander Abiduev
            Alexander Abiduev 21 December 2017 16: 57 New
            +7
            Venya, it’s never too late to learn, the mass of documents of those times is in the archives. You Khalkha-Mongols have also dragged here (they are a product of the later Middle Ages) and the tribes listed in the period of the Chechen Republic, they are now also part of the current Buryat-Mongols, Kalmyks and in Mongolia itself .Venya, baranoid, you go to Wikipedia, find the section Buryats-outerwear, statehood, etc. The difference between the Buryat clothes and the Syanbi (Khalkha) is three colored stripes on the chest of different colors, what they mean, everything is written there. If the first color white- This is the Sagaan Hunnu-be tribes Hunnu (people), blue-Huhe Hunnu-blue Hunnu, green, yellow Shara Hunnu-yellow Hunnu, black-Hara Hunnu and others. So my ancestors back in the 3-4 century in the current steppe zone of Ukraine (without taking forest and mountainous part) created the state of Great Hunia. when no one called your ancestors, study, and do not drive a wedge with your own insanity.
            1. KaPToC
              KaPToC 21 December 2017 19: 12 New
              11
              Quote: Alexander Abiduev
              his insanity

              Do not impose YOUR insanity on us
              Quote: Alexander Abiduev
              it's never too late to learn, a lot of documents of those times

              A link to the documents can be, please, because something "great conquerors" did not leave samples of their writing in Russia.
            2. Khazarin
              Khazarin 21 December 2017 19: 47 New
              +5
              Quote: Alexander Abiduev
              Venya, it's never too late to learn

              And that is true! Passionary peoples, especially those who developed the imperial territories, somehow left their traces, which have not been washed away even by millennia! The Golden Horde, nomadic, left nothing on its own, except for mentions in the Russian chronicles, "go into the horde, come from the horde", "the king of the horde cameos and hail the Mnosis burned, he was old and young, he was full, he brought down the village of robbery, black people bringing everything together. " This is where the horde's descriptions are limited. The Hun Empire, as it arose and disappeared, and the Buryats = Huns are only one of the constituent parts, like the Sarmatians, Bulgars, Magyats, but this empire left traces in the form of Bulgaria, Hungary, the Sarmatian armored cavalry among the Romans (read the Knights Reytars) , The Horde did not leave anything other than mail, pit.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 35 New
                10
                Quote: Khazarin
                in addition to references in Russian chronicles, "go to the horde, come from the horde", "king of the horde

                Horde from Old Russian - the army. Coming to the horde - going to the service, coming from the horde - returning from the service, the king of the horde - the military commander. The Mongols have no word "horde".
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 46 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Khazarin
                  The horde did not leave anything other than mail, pit.

                  The horde left behind the largest country in the world - Russia.
              2. Dzungar
                Dzungar 21 December 2017 20: 35 New
                +5
                About the works of Rashil-Ad-Din did not hear anything ...? There is a lot written about the Mongols ... And the fact that they did not leave anything special material - it’s the nomads ... While they were in force - there was an empire, but cities and temples were not built ... There was no empire of nomads - and from them little is left ....
                1. E_V_N
                  E_V_N 21 December 2017 23: 54 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Dzungar
                  About the works of Rashil-Ad-Din did not hear anything ...? There is a lot written about the Mongols ... And the fact that they did not leave anything special material - it’s the nomads ... While they were in force - there was an empire, but cities and temples were not built ... There was no empire of nomads - and from them little is left ....

                  Here, after all, how to translate these works ... you can Mongol, but you can Mughal and the essence will immediately change. Well, about the army of nomads ... Think for yourself, a nomad can only live as a herder, there is no cattle ... death from hunger. And the cattle breeder once needs to graze cattle. But the army of nomads (without cattle) is already a gang of beggars hunting robberies, big or small question is different. It has always been with all peoples, as an example, Zaporizhzhya Cossacks or the army of Pugachev, Pirates of different seas. Gangs can be powerful even to defeat states, it is possible to create some kind of gangster republics. But all this is short-lived by historical standards.
                  1. Dzungar
                    Dzungar 22 December 2017 13: 12 New
                    +3
                    Your words simply say that you DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the way of life of a nomad ... Tear your ass off the couch and get acquainted with the life of the Nomad family and you will definitely see that there is someone to graze cattle, and there will ALWAYS be someone to fight. You should not just go into your speculative fantasies .... Moreover, the nomads of the time had MUCH more time for military exercises than the peasants .... This implies the usual rule for nomads - EVERY MAN in the Family is a WARRIOR ...
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 22 December 2017 19: 58 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      Tear off your ass from the sofa somehow and get acquainted with the life of the Nomad family and you will definitely see that there is someone to graze cattle, and there will ALWAYS be someone to fight.

                      It's you - those who pretend to be descendants of nomads - you don’t know about the life of cattle breeders.
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      From here follows the usual rule among nomads - EVERY MAN in the Family is a WARRIOR ...

                      Among nomads, every man is a shepherd, not a warrior.
                      1. Dzungar
                        Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 08 New
                        +1
                        You only have enough for an empty UAV - UAV - UAV ..... I feel sorry for you
                      2. Dzungar
                        Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 58 New
                        +1
                        This peasants from dawn to dawn plowing on the farm and in the field there is no time for military training. And the nomad TIME SEA in order to become a Warrior, cattle do not require much attention, and so our Banhars graze without a man .... I do not want to do
                    2. E_V_N
                      E_V_N 25 December 2017 15: 53 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Dzungar
                      Your words simply say that you DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the way of life of a nomad ... Tear your ass off the couch and get acquainted with the life of the Nomad family and you will definitely see that there is someone to graze cattle, and there will ALWAYS be someone to fight. You should not just go into your speculative fantasies .... Moreover, the nomads of the time had MUCH more time for military exercises than the peasants .... This implies the usual rule for nomads - EVERY MAN in the Family is a WARRIOR ...

                      That you have read fairy tales and tales, you yourself really grazed sometime? It is ridiculous to listen to the reasoning of the sofa nomad cattle breeder. Where can your family go to fight and who will leave the herds, but a dozen shepherds? So the flocks will be immediately taken away by your neighbors. You try in the war to lose half of the men of the family, the rest will be finished off instantly by the tribesmen. Read the history of Timujin, what relations reigned among fellow tribesmen. Yes, they studied military affairs in order to protect their cattle from neighbors. The only reason for the kind to go robbery is the death of cattle.
                      You are also wrong about the peasants. The main works are spring and autumn, in the summer there is work, but there is no rush. Winter is generally almost a vacation. Moreover, it does not make sense to attack the peasant not in spring or summer, the old crop is eaten, the new one has not grown. You can attack only in late autumn when the crop is harvested. In winter it is cold and there is little feed for the horses. So the farmers had time to comprehend the military craft and nature protected from robbery.
                    3. azkolt
                      azkolt 26 December 2017 22: 53 New
                      +1
                      I read, I read, it is amazing how many idiots who believe in this Tartary divorced !!! Seen even by likes! A nomad could not fight, we must graze cattle! ?))))) So there were no Scythian campaigns in Asia Minor, there was no great migration of peoples, there were no Huns, Sarmatians, Bulgars, Massagets, finally !!!! With the help of these u..ov, they want to make us the same mankurts as Ukrainians now, with their dill history!
                2. Iskander-Khan
                  Iskander-Khan 22 December 2017 04: 11 New
                  0
                  ... Rashid-Ad-Din ... so what did he learn from ..
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                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 21 December 2017 23: 42 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    as in this article

                    Is that how you assert yourself by speaking derogatoryly about others? How ugly it is!
                    Quote: Dzungar
                    I directly said that RUSSIANS MUCH SMARTER THOSE WHO COME THESE NONSENDS AND BELIEVE THESE NONSENDS

                    Faith is in the church, science operates with evidence, well, apart from history, historians are used to referring to someone, they crush authority with authority.
                    1. Dzungar
                      Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 11 New
                      +2
                      In the church - religion, if you are not in the know. Faith in man is in the soul and mind. Since you have this and that problem, then apparently you have a bad faith with Faith .... Neither in God, nor in anything else known to everyone
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 23 December 2017 18: 34 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        In the church - religion, if you are not in the know.

                        I don’t care, faith, church, what's the difference? Believe at least, in God, even in hell, even in history, even in the great shepherds of conquerors, do not impose your faith on us.
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        apparently with Vera you have a bad time ....

                        But everything is fine with common sense
                        Google this term "critical thinking."
                  2. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 22 December 2017 07: 02 New
                    +2
                    All right said. and not just stupid, but stupid Nazis!
                    1. KaPToC
                      KaPToC 22 December 2017 20: 16 New
                      +3
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      Is that how you veiledly called all Russians stupid?

                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      All right said. and not just stupid, but stupid Nazis!

                      As the saying goes "no comment."
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            4. Lenivets2
              Lenivets2 23 December 2017 13: 39 New
              +2
              If not your last offer, I completely agree with you.
              Why insult ancestors?
              It's not for you to judge what their names were. hi
            5. Anasti
              Anasti 27 December 2017 01: 04 New
              +1
              Buryats from the Barat-Aryans, the Mongols from the barbecue themselves. Transbaikal Artania is still in many place names. Mangaloy and Halarta are still there. Khalkhi, however, were not Mongoloids. ) The Jews handed out someone else's. Igo from them is Jewish, everywhere and again.
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 21 December 2017 08: 50 New
          15
          Quote: kalibr
          Links, links to archeological data ... ... It has a bunch of tips of the Mongolian arrows identical to the tips of the territory of Mongolia

          Have you heard anything about Tartaria, in what borders was it?

          Map of Tartaria - 0:25

          And what about the Battle of Kulikovo?

          The Tatar-Mongol yoke, Christians are trying to cover up the genocide of the Russian people during the forced Christianization of it.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 12: 03 New
            16
            Quote: Boris55
            have you heard anything about Tartaria

            I already answered above, I will tell you: "Tartaria" is the European name for the Horde. And the Horde tributaries were included on European maps in this Tartaria. So do not produce entities beyond measure.
            Quote: Boris55
            The Tatar-Mongol yoke, Christians are trying to cover up the genocide of the Russian people during the forced Christianization of it.

            Are you serious now? That is, as I understand it, the myth of "9 million killed out of 12 in the 10th century" was successfully debunked and now neopagans are trying to come up with the myth of "resistance to the Slavic Aryans in the 13th century"? And you are not embarrassed by the fact that there is not a word about this “resistance” either in secular or church chronicles? It would seem that such a glorious victory for Christians should be immortalized in the annals, as the memory of the triumph over the enemy in the feud. Only for some reason all the annals are silent. Could it be that this "resistance" is just an invention?
            1. Barcid
              Barcid 21 December 2017 12: 52 New
              23
              Lieutenant You are well done. So them. I clap standing.
              1. Iskander-Khan
                Iskander-Khan 22 December 2017 04: 09 New
                +3
                With eyes and ears ... the lieutenant hangs noodles .. and YOU ..!
            2. Boris55
              Boris55 21 December 2017 12: 57 New
              11
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Are you serious now?

              Have you heard the thread about the cross of the carriers on Lake Peipsi?
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              And you are not embarrassed by the fact that there is not a word about this “resistance” either in secular or church chronicles?

              Are you aware that all the annals of Petrukh I were allegedly claimed for the census and no one else saw them?
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Could it be that this "resistance" is just an invention?

              As echoes of the confrontation of beliefs - this is the presence with us to this day (in Russia) of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church.

              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              the myth of "9 millions killed from 12 in the 10 century" was successfully debunked

              Everywhere Christianity didn’t come - there was genocide everywhere, that of the natives of North and South America, that of Australia, etc. and only in Russia were such woodpeckers that, with joy, they refused the faith of their fathers and accepted the new faith ... And do you believe that?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 13: 27 New
                11
                Quote: Boris55
                Have you heard the thread about the cross of the carriers on Lake Peipsi?

                Are you talking about the Catholic Teutonic Order? Well, these "knight brothers" not only fought with Orthodox Russia, but also fought with Catholic Poland. For this order, questions of faith very quickly gave way to concerns about financial and land issues.
                Quote: Boris55
                Are you aware that all the annals of Petrukh I were allegedly claimed for the census and no one else saw them?

                Who is "Peter I" is personally unknown to me. Russian historiography too. In the same way, as well as a certain "demand for annals for the census." That is why only the "secret guardians of ancient knowledge" know about it. And no one else.
                Quote: Boris55
                As echoes of the confrontation of beliefs - this is the presence with us to this day (in Russia) of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church.

                That is, you do not know anything about the Nikon reform and the real history of the emergence of the Old Believers?
                Quote: Boris55
                Everywhere Christianity didn’t come - there was genocide everywhere, that of the natives of North and South America, that of Australia, etc.

                Tell this to the people of Latin America. Which are, without exception, descendants of marriages of local Aborigines with newcomers Spaniards. Or Orthodox Yakuts. Or Egyptian Copts. They just laugh. And Copts, like southerners, are hot and can knock on the face for such words.
                Quote: Boris55
                with joy they abandoned the faith of their fathers and accepted the new faith ...

                Of course they refused. Because Christianity is much more merciful than pagan cults with their sacrifices. Latin America is an example. And the Slavs before the adoption of Christianity, if you read the chronicles, also did not treat human life very humanely.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 21 December 2017 14: 31 New
                  16
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Christianity is much more merciful than pagan cults

                  Tell it to US Natives

                  Tell it to the natives of Australia

                  Tell it to the natives of Africa

                  Tell it to the natives of China

                  And many, many other nations where the hand of Christianization reached ...
                  Do not have illusions about a variety of this or that current in Christianity. All of them have one Bible - one concept of enslavement of peoples.
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 14: 40 New
                    11
                    Dear Boris, you do not notice one dislike of Christianity for one obvious fact: the genocide of the aboriginal population was carried out by people who had a very mediocre attitude to the Christian Church and the Gospel teaching. The states dominated by the Orthodox Church baptized the conquered peoples without their extermination. An example is Russia with its more than a hundred peoples. Catholic countries were also merciful to the conquered peoples. I have already given you an example. The same facts that you are talking about were carried out by people who belonged to all sorts of Protestant sects, whose morality and attitude towards people were extremely far from Christian.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 21 December 2017 16: 01 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Catholic countries are also merciful to conquered nations.

                      One feature of Western thinking is that they always repent when the process they have begun to become irreversible.
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 17: 17 New
                        +5
                        Question: What does Western thinking have to do with it? And why do you highlight the word "subjugated"? Do you not know that the history of most states originates in the conquest of one people by another or others?
                    2. Looking for
                      Looking for 21 December 2017 16: 59 New
                      16
                      "The Catholic countries were also merciful to the conquered peoples." After these words, you are different. You cannot be called a monarchist obscurantist. The Vatican destroyed whole civilizations. The Crusades, Inquisition, America. Asia - millions of people were destroyed in the name of Christ. Entire civilizations.
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 17: 38 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Seeker
                        The Vatican destroyed whole civilizations.

                        Are you serious now? And what civilizations were destroyed, for example, by the crusaders? Which, I will tell you a terrible secret, made their campaigns in response to the seizure of the Christian lands of the Middle East and Egypt. What nations were destroyed in Asia? Not to mention North America, where Protestant sectarians acted.
                        And the passage about the Inquisition is generally ridiculous. Most of those convicted by the Inquisitors survived:
                        The most famous anti-Inquisition data cited by Juan Antonio Llorente in the book "History of the Spanish Inquisition" for Spain in 1540-1700. According to his calculations, it turns out approximately 31 people burned in Spain, excluding its colonies. Sentenced to other types of punishment - 700. As you can see, even Llorente, who himself served as secretary in the Inquisition, but then broke up with her, admitted that the vast majority of sentences did not lead to execution.
                        http://ycnokoutellb.livejournal.com/9875.html
                      2. Boris55
                        Boris55 21 December 2017 17: 40 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                        Do you not know that the history of most states originates in the conquest of one people by another or others?

                        So what am I trying to tell you about? Before Christianity came to Russia, there was no state as an apparatus of minority violence over the majority. Pre-Christian Russia resisted this invasion as much as possible, but because of the betrayal of the Magi, we lost this battle. But the war is not over yet.
                  2. RUSS
                    RUSS 21 December 2017 15: 08 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Boris55
                    Tell it to US Natives

                    Especially in Central America where the Mayan and Aztec priests made human sacrifices, and then along with the same Cortes, some Indian tribes destroyed their own Indians.
                    The Chinese and Japanese are still those animals.
                    So do not.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 21 December 2017 15: 58 New
                      +8
                      Quote: RUSS
                      The Chinese and Japanese are still those animals.

                      Are you the case, not from the CIA, pushing the idea of ​​promoting democracy in other countries? laughing
                      1. RUSS
                        RUSS 21 December 2017 17: 55 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Boris55
                        You are not from the CIA,

                        No chance.
                        Quote: Boris55
                        pushing ideas of democracy promotion to other countries?

                        I’m not pushing anything, what are we talking about?
                      2. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 18: 22 New
                        +8
                        About the Japanese "detachment 734" and the massacre in Nanjing, I think you have heard?
                  3. avva2012
                    avva2012 22 December 2017 05: 16 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Boris55 And many, many other nations where the hand of Christianization reached ...

                    Yes, yes!
                  4. Mic1969
                    Mic1969 23 December 2017 08: 47 New
                    0
                    Well, what does Christianity have to do with it? I myself am not a very Christian, but all your examples are examples of the activities of the adherents of the golden calf and the mammon.
                2. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 21 December 2017 17: 33 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  Are you talking about the Catholic Teutonic Order?

                  At that time, already Livonian, more precisely: the Livonian landmaster of the Teutonic Order. And believe me, Lieutenant, arguing with citizens of an alternative historical orientation is like playing chess with a pigeon! Leave the sick. Only lobotomy will help.
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 17: 45 New
                    +6
                    Hello dear HanTengri! Thank you for correcting my inaccuracy. hi Yes, I once had the opportunity to experience the almost complete uneducability of citizens of an alternative historical orientation, but still when I see examples of such terrific ignorance in the field of history, I can not pass by. By the kindness of my soul, the hope flickers in me every time that I will be able to reach out to the mind and remnants of the logic of such citizens. Sometimes it turns out, although such cases are extremely rare.
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 21 December 2017 22: 45 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      Yes, I once had the opportunity to experience the almost complete uneducability of citizens of an alternative historical orientation, but still when I see examples of such terrific ignorance in the field of history, I can not pass by.

                      Understand. I gave you, here, clever advice .... And myself - on the same rake! laughing
                  2. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 27 New
                    +9
                    Quote: HanTengri
                    And, believe me, Lieutenant, arguing with citizens of an alternative historical orientation is like playing chess with a dove

                    Hello. hi Let’s do an experiment - I’ll take your children up for only five years, and ready to put life on the linethat in five years your children will hate you. wink
                    With the official story the same way - you seriously think. that the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of the ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?
                    That I so subtly hint at no alternative OFFICIAL STORY. And the stubbornness of some of its adherents.hi
                    1. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 21 December 2017 22: 31 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Hello.

                      And ours, to you, the namesake, with a brush! hi
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Let’s do an experiment - I’ll take your children up for only five years, and I’m ready to put life at stake that in five years your children will hate you.

                      Probably. But, if in 5 years you will return them to me, then after a period of 2 weeks to 0,5 years they will love me again. For I am a psychologist (i.e., I was taught everyone, such was taught, but you are not!) bully This I subtly hint that the world is not as it seems at first glance, and even more so I want. hi
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      With the official story the same way - you seriously think. that the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of the ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?

                      A service corporation (squad), mainly immediately (because, for a pagan, that god is better for those who have more "buns" (material, here and now!). He is polytheistic, in fact). And the rest of the people ... The method of whip and deafening miracles works! (see Baptism of Novgorod) Not at once, of course, but with constant use ... (I made it extremely simple and vulgarized the opinion of official science if you did not understand.). laughing You, it seems to me, thought that they think a little differently! lol
                    2. avva2012
                      avva2012 22 December 2017 05: 29 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Ingvar 72 You seriously think. that the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of the ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?

                      Seriously, there’s nothing to think about. England: Whack and from a Catholic country has become a Protestant. You may not see much difference, but in fact, the differences are huge. France: temples are plundered and plundered during the bourgeois revolution, and, on the initiative of the citizens themselves, no one cheered them with their butts, only with the consent of the authorities. I think there would be dynamite and .... Russia: ....... Maybe, of course, you think that with the machine guns around the perimeter, the temples were destroyed? For the entire time of the demolition of churches, isolated cases of active opposition of parishioners were recorded. Emotions, some emotions. True believers in something, one, two and miscalculated. And with paganism, in general, there are no problems. Do not forget to burhan where it should be laughing
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 22 December 2017 07: 59 New
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Seriously, there’s nothing to think about. England: Whack and from a Catholic country turned into a Protestant

                        How many people died during Whack? wink
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 22 December 2017 10: 55 New
                      +5
                      How many people died during Whack?

                      And how many people died during the “civil war”, in your opinion, instead of TMI? Do you have statistics? In England, for example, it is difficult to consider, because, at the same time, there was a "fence", but in general, under Henry 8, they didn’t put people badly, the data diverge (from 30 to 80 thousand or more). What age is it? Do you seriously think that even earlier, in the 13 century, the population census was carried out, as it is now? "Smokes" were considered in Russia, and how many lived there was a big question.
                      But, in general, in my opinion, the conversation was about something else, "Do you seriously think. That the population of Russia voluntarily (as it is written) renounced the Faith of their ancestors, having converted to Christianity at the behest of Prince Vladimir?" I, answered the question posed, "the majority of the population of any country and except Faith have enough worries." Yet, for most people, Vera, this question is more ideological and economic, rather than theological. The average peasant, unlike the average intellectual, has no time to think about abstractions, you need to survive.
                      1. alatanas
                        alatanas 22 December 2017 15: 02 New
                        +2
                        I do not quite agree. The Bulgarians from 1396 to 1878 did not become Muslims. There is one exception - the forcibly Muslim population in the Rhodope Mountains and parts of eastern Thrace (in the 1670's), but they also speak Bulgarian.
              2. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ 21 December 2017 14: 11 New
                +5
                Quote: Boris55
                and only in Russia were such woodpeckers that, with joy, they refused the faith of their fathers and accepted the new faith ...

                But in Northern Germany, the "woodpeckers" retained paganism, and now from these "wise men" there are only names in the toponymy of Northern Germany. Maybe woodpeckers are those who have not accepted the good news ?!
                1. Lenivets2
                  Lenivets2 23 December 2017 13: 59 New
                  +4
                  Have you seriously voiced this crap?
                  In your betrayal of the ancestors after listening to the next "good news" and normal.
                  I did not betray, did not begin to cherish the ancestors and believe that they are all by default dirty pagans and now in hell, then you are a woodpecker.
                  1. azkolt
                    azkolt 26 December 2017 23: 16 New
                    0
                    Dear Goluba, what does it mean to betray the faith of ancestors?)))) Once these ancestors believed in the fire of a bonfire, so that the faithful in Perun are also traitors!)))) Yes, and how can you seriously believe in it? Are you out of your mind? Who Slavs forcibly Christianized, if for another 100 years in Kiev there was a Christian church and there was a large Christian community! In the squad Svyatoslav were Christians. The Arab chronicler Ibn-Khordadbeg (author of the end of the 444th century), talking about the Rus (or rather, the Russian merchants who came to Baghdad), emphasized: “And they impersonate Christians and pay a jiziya” [385, p. 842; 77, p. 80]. Ibn-Khordadbeg wrote his book in the 170s of the 125th century, therefore, was a contemporary of Askold. Other information leads al-Masudi, the author of the X century. His data belong to a later time than the evidence of Ibn-Khordadbeg, but more ancient than the era of Vladimir. In his work, one part of the Slavs acts as Christians, and the other as pagans. “They have many cities,” Masudi writes, “as well as churches where they hang bells, which they beat with a hammer, just like in our country Christians hit a wooden hammer on a board” [XNUMX, p. XNUMX]. Therefore, when you write about violent Christianization, you are either a PROVOCATOR or a narrow-minded person!
                    1. andrew42
                      andrew42 5 March 2018 09: 54 New
                      0
                      Here are usually those who consider their ancestors to be idiots — they say “ancestors believed in the fire of a fire”, hee-hee — these in the forefront run to receive blessings from “good uncles” and visiting preachers. In the memory of mankind, disrespect for the ancestors has always been considered the most powerful evil, the root of all ills. And this is no coincidence. And about the bells. - so they were cast before Christianity. Maybe not so pompous. Most of the old Christian churches are on the foundations of former "trash" places. and priests it doesn’t bother, - even pride is there, - how they won, they stood up “instead of” ignoramuses, prayers prayed!
              3. zoolu350
                zoolu350 21 December 2017 20: 01 New
                +3
                Here the question is political and ideological. It is difficult for pagan cults to compete with the church organization and propaganda of the Abrahamic religions.
            3. KaPToC
              KaPToC 21 December 2017 19: 14 New
              +6
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              And you are not embarrassed by the fact that there is not a word about this “resistance” either in secular or church chronicles?

              It doesn’t bother. No one in the world is embarrassed by the fact that the Third Reich was “defeated” by the Americans, and the participants in that war are still alive. The church has tried to whitewash itself beloved.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 19: 33 New
                +5
                You still do not understand the meaning of my comment. If the aforementioned “resistance” existed once in reality, then the church chronicles would contain information about the victory over this resistance. The property of the human psyche is to perpetuate the victory over a strong enemy. But this is not in the chronicles.
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 37 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  You still do not understand the meaning of my comment.

                  I understand - you are diligently looking for excuses.
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  then church chronicles would contain information about the victory over this resistance

                  The clergy carefully extinct information about their crimes from history.
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  The property of the human psyche is to perpetuate the victory over a strong enemy.

                  Are you a psychologist or do you just talk like that? The property of the human psyche is to hide unsightly actions.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 22 December 2017 05: 38 New
                    +2
                    The property of the human psyche is to perpetuate the victory over a strong enemy.
                    The property of the human psyche is to hide unsightly actions.

                    Classics of the genre. And where, do you see a logical contradiction? Both that, and another statement, is true. They do not contradict each other, because they "talk" about different properties of the same "subject" under discussion, and, accordingly, are not in semantic conflict. Unites them, this is the "human psyche." Compare, "the sun rises in the east and the sun sets in the west."
            4. Khazarin
              Khazarin 21 December 2017 19: 33 New
              +3
              Horde - order, ordnung, were the Templars the Horde or the order? Marco Polo described the life and clothes of the Horde. It says there that you involuntarily wonder whether he was not there at all, or the Horde is not the same!
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 41 New
                +3
                Quote: Khazarin
                It says there that you involuntarily wonder whether he was not there at all, or the Horde is not the same!

                Most likely, Marco Polo described everything correctly. But when rewriting history, many historical geographical concepts went for a walk "around the globe." The result is multiple inconsistencies.
                For example, historical China has nothing to do with the state of China and was most likely located somewhere in Russia.
            5. Tula gingerbread
              Tula gingerbread 22 December 2017 15: 48 New
              +4
              That's right. Tartaria exists only on WESTERN maps, but there is no mention of it in Russian documents. Something I did not hear that Ivan the Third called himself - "Sovereign and Grand Duke, all of Tartaria."
              1. Dzungar
                Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 17 New
                +2
                These fools "wholeheartedly" took to Vera a map of the "Great Tartary Empire of Ancient Russia" from the British Encyclopedia from the West, and immediately complain that this West has misinterpreted and replaced it with history ................... ......
              2. azkolt
                azkolt 26 December 2017 23: 23 New
                +3
                Not only in the Russian documents, according to the Dolboslavs, the clergy here annihilated everything, but it is strange that there is no mention of such a powerful state as Tartaria in its neighboring countries! Not in Chinese, Indian, Arab, Armenian, Persian, and only in the encyclopedias of Western countries that do not border on it and do not have any communications with it. And then they have Tartaria denoted by the word Territory, space! There is neither a coat of arms, nor a capital; only the largest city of Tobolsk is indicated. On ancient maps, Crimea belongs to Tartaria! All this looks like a duck for fools, followed by a revision of the borders!
                1. Dzungar
                  Dzungar 3 January 2018 10: 25 New
                  0
                  The West can be understood, since all the land east of Russia, Russia was a mystery to them. They had data that they were inhabited by nomadic Turks and Mongols, generally called them TARTARS (who came from hell - Tartarus, as they called the Mongol Tatars during their invasion), they roughly knew the territory of their residence. But what kind of lands were north and east of the lands of these tartars and who inhabited them - they no longer knew, knowing only that there was a vast territory there. And making a map of all these lands, they brought this entire territory under one name - Tartaria ..... And now they slipped it to some "comrades who are not brilliant," wrapped it in a colorful, beautiful wrapper - and now we, the peoples of Russia, have very a good reason to fight each other .... What was required to achieve certain groups of people ....
            6. The comment was deleted.
            7. The comment was deleted.
            8. Anasti
              Anasti 27 December 2017 01: 11 New
              +1
              There is such a thing - Jewish brides. Witches act very effectively. Their children are already enemies of their fathers.
              Pagans are resistance to changing the language. The gods were composed in the 18th century, and so on.
              Christianity is the label Iga, schism, and the change of the A-beginning to the In-matriarchy. The Greek Bible of Con Iga.
          2. EwgenyZ
            EwgenyZ 21 December 2017 14: 06 New
            +9
            Quote: Boris55
            Tatar-Mongol yoke Christians are trying to cover up the genocide of the Russian people

            Can one indicate historical sources about the genocide of Russians by Christians? I would also like to know where the mass graves were found after the genocide?
          3. azkolt
            azkolt 26 December 2017 22: 57 New
            0
            You can see tight with humor, unlike Putin! I found evidence !! 1 and I didn’t know that the card was given to Tatar Shaimiev, but it should have been Russian, as a victim of "violent Christianization")))))) Or did the Tatars Christianize?)))
        3. Blue cop
          Blue cop 21 December 2017 08: 55 New
          25
          I support kalibra.
          And it has already been discussed several times.
          As much as our steppe friends would not like otherwise, the invasion was - and the yoke (as a phenomenon, its form - another question) as its consequences.
          As well as periodic subsequent invasions of Russia - with the aim of killing, robbing and hijacking artisans and slaves (a vivid example is the site of artisans in Saray-Batu, now the village of Selitrennoe).
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 21 December 2017 09: 31 New
            21
            Quote: Blue Cop
            I support kalibra.

            In addition to archeology, there are also other sciences.
            "... In order to clarify the most complete nonsense about the Mongol conquest, it is enough to turn to the data of even that historical" science ", which tries to prove the opposite. Actually, what traces the Mongols left after themselves:
            - Written sources - 0 (zero), which is not surprising, since the Mongols received their writing only in the twentieth century (before that various alphabets of more cultural peoples adapted). However, in the Russian chronicles (even if they are littered with very late fakes), no Mongols were mentioned even once.
            - Architectural monuments - 0 (zero).
            - Linguistic borrowing - 0 (zero): just as there is not a single Mongolian word in Russian, there were no borrowings from Russian in Mongolian until the twentieth century.
            - Cultural and legal borrowing - 0 (zero): neither in our everyday life is there anything from the Transbaikal nomads, nor the nomads took absolutely nothing from the much more cultured peoples allegedly conquered by them until the last century.
            - The economic consequences of conquering the world - 0 (zero): nomads robbed two-thirds of Eurasia, should they have brought at least something home? Let not libraries, but at least a piece of gold torn from the temples allegedly destroyed by them ... But there’s nothing at all.
            - Numismatic traces - 0 (zero): no Mongolian coins are known to the world.
            - In weapons business - 0 (zero).
            - There is no Mongolian folklore no, even phantom memories of his “great” past, which was noted by all Europeans who had contact with the natives, beginning in the XNUMXth century, when a wave of Russian colonization reached Transbaikalia.
            - Population genetics does not find the slightest trace of the stay of Transbaikal nomads in the vast expanses of Eurasia, which they conquered ... "
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 21 December 2017 12: 06 New
              +4
              - In weapons business - 0 (zero).
              You can declare all sorts of different ways. The question is in the knowledge of the historiography of the problem, is not it? Are you of course familiar with this monographic study?
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 21 December 2017 13: 10 New
                13
                Quote: kalibr
                You can declare all sorts of different ways. The question is in the knowledge of the historiography of the problem, is not it? Of course, you are familiar with this monographic study.

                "... Archaeologists persistently insist on the many found remains of metallurgical furnaces and abandoned ore mines in the territory of modern Buryatia and, especially, Altai. ... ... When the Russian colonists began to explore Altai and Transbaikalia, they did not meet peoples with technologies metallurgical production. This is a fact. Historians interpret it as if the Mongols, Buryats, Oirats, Uyghurs and other nomads, once unsurpassed gunsmiths and warriors, had by then "forgotten" the secrets of steel production, had forgotten their great past, had forgotten their writing, had completely lost their militancy, and in general, returned to a wild, extremely primitive state ... "
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 21 December 2017 15: 54 New
                  +2
                  Did you provide links to sources? And where are the authors, names, publishing house and year of release, where are the pages? You read Soloviev, and the books indicated in his bibliography.
                2. lieutenant colonel
                  lieutenant colonel 21 December 2017 18: 17 New
                  +6
                  Look at the ancient ukrov ... Previously, the sea was dug at the expense of "one or two", they clobber everyone within a radius of 1000 km and even (as the ancient Ukrainian books say) ancient ov ... And now, what has happened? Galloping flock ... Complete degradation)))
              2. Anasti
                Anasti 27 December 2017 01: 13 New
                +1
                Artania in Transbaikalia, take an interest in toponymy. Sanskrit. Pictures are painted to please the Igu of Judah.
            2. bug
              bug 21 December 2017 14: 16 New
              10
              “Men-da bei-lu” (“Full description of the Mongol-Tatars”) is the oldest source on the history of Mongolia. “Description” is a note by the South Sun ambassador Zhao Hong, who visited Yanjing in 1221 with the commander of the Mongolian forces in northern China, Mkhali.

              “Chang-chun zhen-ren si-yu ji” (“Note on the Journey to the West by the Righteous Chang-chun”) is the most valuable historical source of the three works in Chinese.

              Hey da shi-lue ”(“ Brief Information on the Black Tatars ”) is a more important source on the history of the Mongols than“ Meng-da bei-lu ”and“ Chan-chun zhen-jen si-yu ji ”. These are summarized notes of two Chinese travelers - Peng Da-ya and Xu Ting, who traveled to Mongolia to the Ugadei court as members of South Sun diplomatic missions.

              Three written sources
              1. Vanko
                Vanko 21 December 2017 21: 38 New
                +6
                Sun Cho In Tea, Take Out Su Chem. Here are two more written sources.
                1. Mic1969
                  Mic1969 23 December 2017 09: 02 New
                  +1
                  Your knowledge of Chinese is simply amazing in its breadth and depth.
              2. KaPToC
                KaPToC 21 December 2017 22: 29 New
                +4
                Quote: error
                “Man-da-bai-lu”

                The original of which is allegedly stored in China, but no one can verify it - it's just a fake, like all of Chinese history. The earliest REALLY EXISTING Chinese historical document that could be verified dates back, do not stray, the seventeenth century AD.
            3. RUSS
              RUSS 21 December 2017 15: 38 New
              +3
              Quote: Boris55
              - Written sources - 0 (zero), which is not surprising, since the Mongols received their writing only in the twentieth century

              The oldest of the actual Mongolian writing systems - Old Mongolian writing (classical Mongolian writing) - turned out to be the most successful of them, and after a number of modifications continues to be actively used to this day, primarily in the PRC. According to one legend, at the beginning of the formation of the Mongol Empire, about In 1204, Genghis Khan defeated the Naimans and captured the Uyghur scribe, Tatatunga, who adapted the Uyghur alphabet (ascending through the Sogdian to the Syriac alphabet) to write the Mongolian language.
              Quote: Boris55
              Numismatic traces - 0 (zero): no Mongolian coins are known to the world.
            4. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 16: 35 New
              +9
              Next, we consider the theses
              1.
              Thesis
              R1a1 DNA is present in unchanged form. If there was a yoke, then this did not happen. For example, here is an article on this topic http://folksland.net/m/articles/view/RUSSKAYA-KRO
              V-ISTORIYA-I-GEOPOLITIKA
              Antithesis
              Weak argument due to the fact that TM was not assimilated with the Russians. In Russia (you need to understand the phrase like this: “lived next to the Russians”), only small detachments that collected tribute did not live. And because there were few Mongols in the army of Batu, there were also Caucasoid Tatars and Kipchaks. About half of Russians and a third of Tatars have the same haplogroup - R1a. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BF%D
              0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0_R1
              a_%28Y-%D0%94%D0%9D%D0%9A%29
              2.
              Thesis
              There are no references to TMI on the territory of Mongolia.
              Antithesis
              It is not true, the sources have been preserved, this is indicated by today's nationalist surge in Mongolia and interest in the period of Genghis Khan's reign.
              Here, for example, “The Secret Legend” in the Mongolian language, recorded by Chinese characters. http://bookz.ru/authors/bez-avtora/sokroven_903.h
              tml
              In confirmation, you can give links on this topic:
              Rashid ad-Din Fazlullah Hamadani. Collection of annals. - T. 1. Prince 1. Per. L. A. Khetagurova, 1952
              Rashid ad-Din Fazlullah Hamadani. Collection of annals. - T. 1. Prince 2. Per. O. I. Smirnova, 1952;
              Yuan-chao bi-shi. The secret legend of the Mongols. Per. S. A. Kozina, 1941;
              Yuan Shi. History of the Yuan Dynasty. - M .: Beijing, 1976.
              Guillaume de Rubruck: http://kitap.net.ru/archive/13.php
              Carpini Plan: http://kitap.net.ru/archive/12.php
              Marco Polo: http://www.lib.ru/INPROZ/POLO_M/mir.txt
              3.
              Thesis
              No archaeological evidence of TMI
              Antithesis
              This is a lie, there are a lot of archaeological evidence:
              http://nauka.izvestia.ru/news/article56948.html
              http://baikal.irkutsk.ru/index.php?rubr=15&do
              c = 74
              http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/sie/17077/%D0%A1%D
              0%AB%D0%93%D0%9D%D0%90%D0%9A
              http://www.ancientcity.ru/goroda-tataro-mongolov/
              saray-berke.html
              4.
              Thesis
              “In the annals of the Right Orthodox Old Believers about the“ Tatar-Mongol yoke ”it is said unequivocally:“ There was Fedot, but not that one. ” Let us turn to the Old Slovenian language. Having adapted the runic images to modern perception, we get: a thief - an enemy, a robber; Mughal-mighty; the yoke is order. It turns out that the “Tati Arias” (from the point of view of the Christian flock) were called “Tatars” by the light hand of the chroniclers 1, (There is another meaning: “Tata” - father. Tatar - Tata Arias, i.e. Fathers (Ancestors or the older) Arias) powerful - by the Mongols, and the yoke - the 300-year-old order in the Stainless, which ended the bloody civil war that broke out on the basis of the forcible baptism of Russia - "holy martyrdom." The Horde is a derivative of the word Order, where "Ohr" is power and day is daylight, or simply "light." Accordingly, the "Order" is the Power of Light, and the "Horde" is the Light Forces. So these Light Forces of the Slavs and Arians, led by our Gods and Ancestors: Rod, Svarog, Sventovit, Perun, stopped the civil war in Russia on the basis of violent Christianization and 300 years kept order in the Stainless. Were there dark-skinned, stocky, dark-skinned, hunch-nosed, narrow-eyed, bent-legged and very angry warriors in the Horde? There were. "Mercenary detachments of different nationalities, which, like in any other army, were driven in the forefront, preserving the main Slavic-Aryan troops from losses on the front line."
              Antithesis
              We see a number of positions of the Ingling sect. We'll have to break this thesis into several.
              1. There are maps of the great Tartary, which prove the Greatness of Russia (Slavic-Arius)
              2. Tartaria - Fathers of Aria
              3. TMI is nothing more than a civil warrior. (Pagans vs. Christians)

              - You can read Vyacheslav Lopatin on the maps for their significance http://www.scaliger.ru/texts/tartar.html where it is clearly proved on what and how historical revisionists speculate. Tartaria = Tataria. Other facts are perfectly stated in the article.
              Let's say it another way. Give at least one source where the country of Tartaria was mentioned that is not comparable with Tatarstan.
              - Tartaria - the Fathers of Aria, and the "Horde" - the Light Forces. This is a direct linguistic fraud. Firstly, the words “horde” (Inglings use the token “order”) are not present in Old Russian vocabulary. Secondly, from what kind of runes? The Englings did not cite either the graphic structure, the phonetic series, or the archaeological sites in which graphemes of their runes were used. So why on earth should seriously consider the methods of such word formation? Thirdly, the Englings easily transform the method of decomposing a word into a convenient one. That is, they change the approach. For example, they use different semantically meaningful units (letter, syllable, root, a combination of several approaches). This is impossible from the point of view of linguistics, since language is primarily a structure. And the diversity of the approach does not just break the structure, it excludes the approach itself as a method.
              - Englings are developing their theory of civil warriors, for example, quote the following quote:
              “Before entering the Batu’s tent, the Mongol priests ordered him to go through the sacred fire and bow to their idols, to which Michael, a true Christian replied:“ I can bow to your Tsar, for Heaven has given him the fate of the earthly states; but the Christian serves neither fire nor deaf idols. ” This proves, from their point of view, a religious warrior. But why did the Inglings take that the Mongol idols are identical with the Slavic idols ???
              As you know, the Mongol idols were with pronounced ethnic dominants.


              If you go from the opposite and admit a civilian warrior. How to enter into the concept: burnt cities and villages, taking people into slavery, tribute, cultural markers of Russian and Mongol warriors, etc. It turns out - and we are talking about one ethnos - that the Great Slavic-Arians were thieves, speculators, and murderers. And why, then, were they so loyal to the church in Russia?
              5.
              Thesis
              A million-strong horse army would simply not have enough feed.
              Antithesis
              And what is the millionth army in question? Is it from the category that Christians destroyed millions of pagans in Russia? Friends strength, Old Russian cities are easy to install: http://krotov.info/lib_sec/19_t/tih/omirov_02.htm
              Talking about multimillion-dollar Russia is not just stupid, but extremely stupid. If there were 10-20 thousand people in a city, this city was already considered Great. Therefore, it is simply not correct to talk about the multi-million dollar extermination of the pagans, as well as talking about the million-strong TM army. And answering the question of opponents, we say that the climatic conditions in which the TM lived were much worse than in the center of Russia, therefore it is simply impossible to talk about frost and other things in the context of the climate (see photo of the Mongolian landscape). This is not an argument.



              You can continue to give smaller arguments, for example, discrepancies in the names of princes, or the same image of warriors on icons, etc., but this is no longer significant, since it is clear that there was a TMI.
              And in conclusion, I would like to quote the scientists who characterize the “historians” of Fomenko and Nosovsky: “It is unthinkable to argue with Fomenko at the level of scientific evidence, the world historical science does not take it seriously”.
              (From an article by Dr. I. Sventitskaya in the journal Nature.)
              D.M. Volodikhin, candidate of historical sciences, teacher of the history department of Moscow State University, senior researcher at the Russian State Archive of Ancient Acts, does not see in A.T. Fomenko and his team of mathematicians a single drop of scientific honesty and no true factual data. Moreover, he believes that these works deal a terrible blow throughout Russian history.
              Academician V. Yanin believes that “Fomenko’s ideas are especially dangerous for our youth, who, like all young people, craves changes and a greed for the new.”
              Professor A. Pornov, proved the failure of Fomenko's ideas.
              Stanislav Sviridov
              Published on http://slaviy.ru/rodnoverie-v-voprosax-i-otvetax/
              i-snova-kv ...
              1. Spnsr
                Spnsr 21 December 2017 22: 29 New
                +3
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                the slavery of people

                Here you can see from the point of view that if there was a state, then there was an army! There was tithe with blood that was paid by all the inhabitants of Eurasia, and whom you later called Cossacks. The withdrawal of people not into slavery, but into service, and cruelty with burning is the result of disobedience. After all, how many times did the icon of the Mother of God save her from such ruin, and if it is just a manifestation of humility !? That is, the appearance of the icon as a recognition of the power of the Mother of God and her son. It was not for nothing that only in Russia they went into battle with the face of Christ, but for the West it’s with the image of a king! And the appearance of the image of the king’s mother meant his recognition.
                They didn’t take them into slavery but to serve, and the younger the better (remember the myth of Sparta, where soldiers were raised from childhood), and this could cause resistance, and many folded cities, when they themselves did not want to give in to the army and did not recognize the supreme and him mother...
                You look at the Cossacks, they are all different, this can be called a consequence of such an appeal, and not only the population now speaks of Slavic appearance.
                And the fact that women were taken away, so now they are called Cossacks, it was also necessary to build families.
                1. Mic1969
                  Mic1969 23 December 2017 09: 20 New
                  0
                  Most of you poor fellow got confused in their historical research. If it was a civil-religious war of the pagans against alien Christianity, then how could images of Christian (alien) saints save?
                  1. Spnsr
                    Spnsr 25 December 2017 22: 45 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Mic1969
                    Most of you poor fellow got confused in their historical research. If it was a civil-religious war of the pagans against alien Christianity, then how could images of Christian (alien) saints save?

                    Am I really about that?
                    Quote: Mic1969
                    religious war

                    You know, the ossification of perception does not allow you to look at the world with a problem! it is perceived as already studied, and this makes it impossible to notice the differences ...
              2. Tula gingerbread
                Tula gingerbread 22 December 2017 15: 56 New
                +2
                Nikolaevich, bravo!
                1. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 23 December 2017 04: 17 New
                  +3
                  Well what are you! repeat It’s our duty to protect the history of our Motherland! soldier
                  wink
              3. Seal
                Seal 25 December 2017 20: 51 New
                +3
                1. Thesis
                Antithesis
                Weak argument due to the fact that TM was not assimilated with the Russians. In Russia (you need to understand the phrase like this: “lived next to the Russians”), only small detachments that collected tribute did not live. And because there were few Mongols in the army of Batu, there were also Caucasoid Tatars and Kipchaks.
                Anit-anti-thesis.
                You have an even weaker argument. Since it is not an argument at all, but purely your personal assumption. And for some reason, expressed in an edifying and imperative tone.
                2.
                Antithesis
                It is not true, the sources have been preserved, this is indicated by today's nationalist surge in Mongolia and interest in the period of Genghis Khan's reign.
                Anti-anti-thesis.
                The interest is caused solely by the commercial demand for the Genghis Khan brand. Khalkha (appointed to be Mongols), 200 years ago and not suspecting such an ancestor, now they will even show you the toilet in which Genghis Khan left a bunch.

                For example….
                Nothing in the example came to us in the original. When and by whom it is written is unknown. Regarding Marco Polo, at least half of even official historians doubt that he really traveled somewhere beyond the Caucasus.
                3.
                Thesis
                No archaeological evidence of TMI
                Antithesis
                This is a lie, there is a lot of archaeological evidence.

                Anti-anti-thesis. To draw some finds by the ears to the desired historical period is now easier than ever. Archaeologists simply check the historical tablets carefully prepared by historians.
                4. Antithesis.
                Anti-anti-thesis.
                This is generally not amenable to analysis, since both the thesis and antithesis are nonsense.
                5.
                Thesis
                A million-strong horse army would simply not have enough feed.
                Antithesis
                And what is the millionth army in question?
                Anti-anti-thesis. We are talking about the army of thousands, which the official tradition tells us about.
                But it, as you rightly noted, is impossible.
                And with smaller military units, the same traditional history claims that our princes successfully coped (Khazars, Pechenegs, Torques, Polovtsy).
              4. Anasti
                Anasti 27 December 2017 01: 19 New
                +1
                Take a map, see Transbaikalia. The territory was called Artania. Toponymy Aryan. The Mangala-Aryans went peacefully west with the Serbs, but Igo from the Jews decided to make them guilty of "baptism."
            5. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 21 December 2017 17: 07 New
              +3
              Quote: Boris55
              "... In order to clarify the most complete nonsense about the Mongol conquest, it is enough to turn to the data of even that historical" science ", which tries to prove the opposite. Actually, what traces the Mongols left after themselves:

              Sir, “Yours” theses are also a fragment of an article that I advise everyone to read: ABOUT REFUSERS OF THE TATAR-MONGOL IGA, AND ALSO ABOUT THE USE OF VISITING MUSEUMS (https://gosh100.livejournal.com/69452.html)
            6. Hantengri
              Hantengri 21 December 2017 17: 56 New
              +4
              Quote: Boris55
              - Numismatic traces - 0 (zero): no Mongolian coins are known to the world.

              For those who, in childhood, were put on a battery head and google, forever, banned: https://www.google.com/search?q=coins+gold+or
              dy + directory & client = opera & hs = 8n4 & tbm = is
              ch & tbo = u & source = univ & sa = X & ved = 0ah




              http://antikvariat.club/coins/coins_golden_horde/



              http://kladokopatel.ru/books/102-serebryanye-mone
              ty-zolotoi-ordy.html
          2. KaPToC
            KaPToC 21 December 2017 19: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: Blue Cop
            As much as our steppe friends would not like otherwise, the invasion was - and the yoke (as a phenomenon, its form is another question) as its consequences.

            Igo - from Old Slavonic - communication, union. Once there was a great yoke, in the twentieth century - the Soviet yoke.
            1. Anasti
              Anasti 27 December 2017 01: 23 New
              +2
              I-go (state), like Manzhou-go, from the I-beginning, In-matriarchy. The value of bond-fetters acquired after the organization of slavery. Now the Igo is in its prime again, Christianity is its mark.
        4. Olgovich
          Olgovich 21 December 2017 09: 59 New
          15
          Quote: kalibr
          Links, links to archeology data.

          There can be no links, for there is nothing to refer to.
          the author of CAM contradicts himself: on the one hand, he writes that only highly developed civilizations could carry out such captures.
          But where material traces of the Scythian-Siberian world of Rus: cities, roads, engineering structures? Such as those left by the Roman, Greek civilization to which he refers? A-NO them!
          , as for the fact that the nomads "could not": so maybe there was no great migration of peoples from Asia? and Attila was not? And there wasn’t a devastated Europe?
          I remember:
          Mom Mom
          "Batu" -batya! yes
          1. Evgeniy667b
            Evgeniy667b 21 December 2017 11: 27 New
            +6
            Slavs lived in the territory of modern Germany, at least according to the place names. And from there they were first pushed east. So, there were no nomads in the literal sense of the word by definition. It may be something like PMCs, such as "Wagner."
            Did not have forty-eighth handfuls of German shepherds, and there were Slavic tribes from Europe. See the cartographic heritage!
          2. Vanko
            Vanko 21 December 2017 21: 46 New
            +1
            Yes, they didn’t just find it, then they didn’t indulge in concrete ... Arkaim only for now, maybe something else will happen ...
        5. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 21 December 2017 11: 15 New
          13
          And who said that these tips are Mongolian? These "forks" are ranked as Mongolian, like other elements of weapons ..... no one can say for sure until now that these are the Mongols. By the way, archaeological research was repeatedly carried out in Mongolia itself .... there were no metallurgical furnaces and other devices for making weapons, well, medieval Mongols did not know how to mine metals on an industrial scale, process it and make weapons. Then the question is who did all this?
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 21 December 2017 15: 51 New
            +4
            "And who said that these tips are precisely Mongolian?" - Will you give all the historiography on the topic or will there be enough links to Soloviev’s book? Look, there's even a cover somewhere.
        6. Lieutenant Teterin
          Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 11: 44 New
          16
          Hello, dear Vyacheslav Olegovich! I wholeheartedly support you from the first to the last word! The author of this opus not only does not provide links to studies confirming his words, but also exposes his own speculations as the ultimate truth. For a scientific article, this is unacceptable, but for creations in the style of "fantasy" - completely. The author would write books in this genre - with the "Slavic-Arians", war mammoths and collections of battle magicians, I believe that with such a developed imagination, these books would have turned out to be wonderful for Mr. Samsonov. Unlike articles.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 21 December 2017 12: 55 New
            +7
            Thanks! After all, I want to convey to people ... If you study something and have something to say, right now there are all the possibilities. No need to refer to what the next general secretary said at the next congress. A lot of magazines, both here and abroad. In some articles, they are not even edited, and they come out with errors in the title !!! But there are rules. All of these articles should contain references to sources, it is indicated - “studies have established,” “a comparison of the texts of the annals has shown” (moreover, which texts, page, storage number, archive, etc.) are indicated. Paying attention to inconsistencies in the history, it is indicated that other authors wrote on this subject, because all of them are known. Also about the photographs of the Wall - an indication of North-South should be present and the shooting point indicated (this is done), Then - a remake or not, otherwise masons-reconstructors could mix up haha, drank vodka and ... Only this way and nothing else. Nobody needs empty ideas today. That is, if the author cited at the end a list of his scientific publications on this topic, then we could say that this is its popularization. But ... there is no list. So this is the basic material. And the basic material served at such a level is nonsense!
          2. KaPToC
            KaPToC 21 December 2017 19: 22 New
            +5
            Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
            The author of this opus not only does not provide links to research confirming his words, but also exposes his own speculation as truth

            Are you crazy? What is such evidence? It’s not accepted in history! Gentlemen ... (crossed out) historians believe each other's word.
        7. Slavors Gart
          Slavors Gart 21 December 2017 16: 01 New
          +5
          On the tips should I assume it says "Made in Mongolia"?
        8. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 21 December 2017 20: 11 New
          +4
          Quote: kalibr
          What does the author refer to? Such articles without links all the same as sandpaper sold instead of toilet paper!

          I join you, the article is nonsense. One of the shells of the information war, knocking a brick from the remains of the building of public consciousness inherent in us.
          1. KaPToC
            KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 48 New
            +3
            Quote: aybolyt678
            I join you, the article is nonsense.

            History in general is ALL nonsense and nothing - people hawala.
            Quote: aybolyt678
            remnants of the building of public consciousness

            What is it and what does it eat?
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 21 December 2017 21: 30 New
              +3
              There is a doctrine about social consciousness, which has 3 levels. The first is superficial - public opinion. The second is that we are Russian, and we cannot be defeated, and the third is basic. If you violate the 3rd layer, then the person loses identification. With Europe, this is done through universal state sexualization of the population, and with us through changes in the facts on which we are brought up.
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 21 December 2017 22: 16 New
                +3
                Quote: aybolyt678
                and with us through changes in the facts on which we are brought up.

                And you do not mind that you are brought up on false "facts"?
                Quote: aybolyt678
                there is a doctrine about social consciousness, which has 3 levels

                What kind of teaching is this, give the link we will "learn"!
                Quote: aybolyt678
                If you violate the 3rd layer, then the person loses identification.

                Do you yourself believe in all this dregs about the levels of public consciousness?
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 22 December 2017 07: 32 New
                  0
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  What kind of teaching is this, give the link we will "learn"!

                  Lisichkin "The war after the war"
                2. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 22 December 2017 12: 13 New
                  +3
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  And you do not mind that you are brought up on false "facts"?

                  I am confused when unverified historical information, essentially a duck, is inflated and presented as a proven fact. Moreover, far-reaching conclusions are already being drawn from it. Secondly: in Yevpatia Kolovrat, Kozelsk, the morale of the Russian boys was nurtured when they could die with a couple in battle with superior enemy forces. Turning the story upside down, we violate the already violated system of education of the defender.
                  Vladimir Chivilikhin "Memory" is what I know from the Tatar-Mongol.
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 22 December 2017 19: 50 New
                    +3
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    I am confused when unverified historical information, essentially a duck, is inflated and presented as a proven fact.

                    We have the whole story - unverified information, and you don’t foam anything about this.
                    Quote: aybolyt678
                    Secondly: in Yevpatia Kolovrat, Kozelsk, the morale of the Russian boys was nurtured when they could die with a couple in battle with superior enemy forces.

                    All this was invented not even under the tsar, but under the communists.
                    1. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 23 December 2017 04: 36 New
                      +2
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      All this was invented not even under the tsar, but under the communists.

                      and the kings and communists were different, no need to crap on their own past
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 23 December 2017 18: 38 New
                        +3
                        Quote: aybolyt678
                        and the kings and communists were different, no need to crap on their own past

                        It’s impossible to spoil the past, you have some kind of substitution of concepts.
                    2. Dzungar
                      Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 21 New
                      +1
                      "
                      Quote: KaPToC
                      We have the whole story - unverified information,

                      In other words - you do not know anything about your story ..... And then you say - THIS WASN’T. JUST HAS NOT BEEN BECAUSE IT COULD NOT BE ... You have nothing bursting from a contradiction to yourself ...?
                      1. KaPToC
                        KaPToC 24 December 2017 14: 16 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        THIS WASN’T. JUST HAS NOT BEEN BECAUSE IT COULD NOT BE ...

                        This was not because there is no evidence for this; I am not ready to take a word of historians.
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        In other words - you do not know anything about your story .....

                        I have always had a great history in the subject, and yes, we all don’t know anything about our history, but we know the propaganda that they push us all at school, and this applies to all people in the world, and not just our country.
                        Quote: Dzungar
                        Nothing bursts from you there from a contradiction to yourself ...?

                        And there is no contradiction - no evidence - no history.
        9. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 21 December 2017 20: 33 New
          +3
          kalibr "In it are a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia." What arrows? Yes, even the Mongol?))) You are now scaring all the elves. Although they all have answers.))) If you notice the orderlies write to me)))) they should be sent immediately to the author.)))
        10. just exp
          just exp 22 December 2017 00: 16 New
          +1
          so you go to this very museum and look at the skulls.
          By the way, if in the future there will be excavations in Africa, then scientists will think that Russia conquered it, everywhere Kalashnikovs and RPGs.
        11. xtur
          xtur 23 December 2017 12: 36 New
          0
          > a bunch of tips of Mongolian arrows identical to tips from the territory of Mongolia

          what about anthropology? How about the fact that Timur, according to Gerasimov who examined him, is a complete European. In order to finally clarify his idea, the other day in Most (this is a scientifically popular application, Russian-language, available on the network), there was an article by Episkoposyan that Mycenaeans and Minoans, as a result of DNA analysis, found a bunch of Armenian genes. Of course, there are not only Armenian, but including. This is the work of Western scientists.

          Where are the DNA test results ? arrows and tips have no evidence of anthropological power
      3. forty-eighth
        forty-eighth 21 December 2017 09: 09 New
        14
        I have a question in essence of the article.
        It is stated here that I quote: “a handful of Mongolian shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, could in no way conquer the Rurikovich’s empire.”
        And how then did a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, were able to destroy the Western Roman Empire, which had factors (the term from the article, I would use the word "sign") great empires and powers?
        The so-called "Mongols" did not bring a single Mongol word to Russia or a single skull of a representative of the Mongoloid race.

        And this is a direct ignoring of the facts. The Russian language is replete with words of Tatar-Mongolian origin, and skulls are still being dug up to this day.
        1. novel66
          novel66 21 December 2017 11: 42 New
          10
          buddy! no and cannot be Mongol-Tatar words! for: the Mongols are the Mongoloids, and the Tatars - the Turkic Turkic words are borrowed and indeed quite a lot - so we lived side by side! and the Mongol - dumb!
          1. Dimmih
            Dimmih 21 December 2017 12: 29 New
            +2
            And you sir as a Mongol from the Turk distinguish when they stand next? Those who speak Turkic languages ​​such as Tatars and Turks are still Turks. You look at the Kumandy, Yakut, and then you will see how the Türks look, and not every cross between it is not clear why.
            1. just exp
              just exp 22 December 2017 00: 17 New
              +3
              easy . or are you one of those who can not distinguish the Chinese from the Turk?
              1. Dimmih
                Dimmih 22 December 2017 06: 42 New
                +2
                You apparently did not understand the question, due to poor knowledge of the Russian language. I’ll write again, maybe you will understand. So, if you put a kumannitsa, a yakut and a Mongol next to you, you will understand which of them is who? Read the comment carefully and its meaning will not elude you.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 22 December 2017 09: 57 New
                  +5
                  my friend, I’m not talking about people (I’ll tell a damn), but about words that cannot be "Mongol-Tatar" but Mongolian or Tatar
                  1. Dimmih
                    Dimmih 22 December 2017 11: 28 New
                    +3
                    Our friendship with you is a very controversial issue, but oh well. This is what I am telling you: for: the Mongols are Mongoloids, and the Tatars are Türks. And I politely showed you. that Mongoloidity is a racial type, and there are both Turkic-speaking Mongoloids and Caucasians. Those. You don’t see the difference between race and language, that there is wild game that catches your eye. Refute.
                    1. novel66
                      novel66 22 December 2017 11: 51 New
                      +5
                      I will not risk it, for it is neither a philologist nor an anthropologist, one question is - the Mongols are Mongoloid from Mongolia, but what language did they speak? in Turkic?
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 22 December 2017 12: 00 New
                        +1
                        First in Mogul, the language of the Scythians, then in Kipchak, then in Kazakh .. And what?
                      2. Dimmih
                        Dimmih 22 December 2017 12: 43 New
                        0
                        It’s possible to get an idea of ​​the relationship between the Turkic and Mongolian languages. Https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D1%82%
                        D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%8F%D0%B7%
                        D1% 8B% D0% BA% D0% B8 The Mongols, of course, spoke the Mongolian language of that time. Pay attention to this line in Wiki: Western (Turkic-Mongolian), which broke up in the middle. 4th millennium BC e. to the Turkic and Mongolian branches (25 matches in a 100-word list.
                      3. just exp
                        just exp 22 December 2017 20: 43 New
                        +2
                        Shahno, do the Mongols speak Kazakh?
                2. just exp
                  just exp 22 December 2017 20: 41 New
                  +3
                  and which of the Yakuts or Mongols belongs to the Turks?
                  and then someone led here a speech that the TURKS with the Mongols on one face, and not the Yakuts.
                  1. Siban
                    Siban 22 December 2017 21: 07 New
                    +1
                    Quote: just EXPL
                    and which of the Yakuts or Mongols belongs to the Turks?

                    Yakuts are the Turks .. fool
                    1. just exp
                      just exp 22 December 2017 21: 16 New
                      +2
                      how long have they become Turks? otherwise Romanians adopted the Romance language, although they can be called Thracians, Romanians and Moldovans Italians, well, or Romans?
                      1. Siban
                        Siban 22 December 2017 21: 26 New
                        0
                        Quote: just EXPL
                        how long have they become Turks?
                        Then one can ask the following question: how long have the Great Russians become Slavs ?!
                        Quote: just EXPL
                        otherwise Romanians adopted the Romance language, although they can be called Thracians, Romanians and Moldovans Italians, well, or Romans?
                        and so the Finno-Ugrians adopted the Slavic language, but the Finno-Ugrians belong to the Slavs .. repeat
                      2. just exp
                        just exp 22 December 2017 21: 49 New
                        +2
                        not only long ago, but initially, in fact, all other Slavs are branches from them, split off under the invasion of external factors.
                        and Finno-Ugrians are not ranked among the Slavs, these are fairy tales of Erbins from Kaklov, who began to consider themselves Slavs and are trying to oust their Slavs from the Slavs themselves.
                        By the way, the Finno-Ugrians from the Aryans themselves, Ugra is the son of a kshatriya and Vaishyanka.
                        formed in Siberia.
                      3. Dzungar
                        Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 23 New
                        0
                        All is correct. Yakuts - Turkic-speaking people
                      4. Dimmih
                        Dimmih 25 December 2017 05: 02 New
                        +1
                        You read something about the Yakuts ..... Just an adult does not write any game.
                  2. Dimmih
                    Dimmih 25 December 2017 05: 00 New
                    +1
                    Sir, read how the conversation began and you will understand what it is about. Either you are reading from the middle, or the meaning is slipping away. But the fact that a person confuses the concepts of race (Mongoloid) and language (Türkic-speaking).
        2. Spnsr
          Spnsr 22 December 2017 00: 04 New
          +3
          Quote: forty-eighth
          And how then did a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization, nor an adequate strength and fighting spirit, were able to destroy the Western Roman Empire, which had factors (the term from the article, I would use the word "sign") great empires and powers?

          What an amazing statement!
          Russia = Roman Empire, Mongols = Germans!
          That is, if we take as a basis the assertion that there are no Germans, then the Mongols are logical too!
          Look at the map, there all of Europe consists of the Western Slavs, who were Germanized, from the word: I do not understand them. As an example of Germanization, I can give an example of the Slavs in the territory that is now called Ukraine! And already even the mov of which it becomes more and more difficult to understand, not to mention consciousness.
          And the Germans, this is a work of 18-19 centuries, as a prerequisite for the so-called section of the so-called Poland, which as a fact appeared from the section of the then "European Union". Hope this story is obvious? And the Germans in it and does not smell !!
          1. just exp
            just exp 22 December 2017 00: 18 New
            +1
            a little bit wrong, western Germany is still not Slavs, these are Celts.
            in fact, both Germany and Ukraine are one and the same story, 2 different peoples, on the same territory. which imposes one common culture and language. only in Germany did it work. and in Ukraine, the project is stalled.
        3. xtur
          xtur 23 December 2017 12: 38 New
          0
          > And how then a handful of German shepherds and hunters who did not have a military-industrial base and organization

          western RI for several centuries used Germanic tribes to protect against the same Germanic. To this they were forced by the demographic situation in the empire. That is, the training of these barbarians in the army lasted several centuries
      4. svp67
        svp67 21 December 2017 10: 22 New
        +8
        Quote: venaya
        Want to understand in more detail - we will help!

        Details of what? Delirium. Anyone who is trying to write such articles is better off getting into the net and downloading reports on archaeological expeditions and explaining the fact that in the places of the conjugated Russian cities in large numbers are the remains of people of both the Slavic and Mongoloid races, and fragments of weapons and protective equipment, like typical for Russia and for the eastern countries.
        And it would be nice to get an answer, who in the middle of the 14th century walked the “iron rink”, not only in Russia, but also in Europe ...
        1. venaya
          venaya 21 December 2017 11: 08 New
          +8
          Quote: svp67
          .. it would be nice to get an answer, who is in the middle of the 14th century he walked with an "iron rink", not only in Russia, but also in Europe ...

          And who will allow it? The article clearly states that the winners write History! Have you ever turned on the TV? Look at the faces - there’s no way to find local people there “day with fire”, a similar situation with the amazing “science” is “History”. Let us recall Leninsky: ".. mail, telegraph, train stations .." - Forgot something? For the first century, among the hundreds of academics at the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Ingushetia, there was only one local academician named M. Lomonosov, and that “by-bye” - according to the denunciation of academics and by the decision of the Senate of the Republic of Ingushetia, this one was sentenced to death, though Ekaterina was frightened they decided to imprison this decision (execution) for 8 months, after which he died suddenly, naturally "by accident". Any questions? So I do not advise you to get into historical "science", it is still not very safe. What tricks the enemies of Russia just don’t take - you can’t count the diversity, but regarding the reports of archaeologists, this “sword” also hangs over them, it’s enough to recall that in the excavations of the Scythian mounds all the soldiers were headless, though the head was accidentally in place, the “watchmen” blinked, Russian archaeologists accidentally appeared on the excavation site, and all the centuries hidden what had been hidden went to ashes: It turned out that the Scythians had a purely Russian appearance, by the way this is clearly noticeable on their gold jewelry. Here we have such a sad story about the “History” and some aspects of archeology. I hope that I have clearly enough explained some of the features of some of the "sciences."
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 12: 08 New
            +7
            Quote: venaya
            by the decision of the Senate of the Republic of Ingushetia, this only one was sentenced to death, although Catherine was afraid to bring this decision to action (execution), they decided to put him in jail for 8 months, after which he died suddenly, naturally "by accident".

            Uh ... This, sorry, what? Quote from a very alternative story novel?
            The real Mikhail Vasilievich Lomonosov died at the zenith of glory in his house from pneumonia.
            The scientific fame of Lomonosov reaches its zenith. In May 1760 he was elected an honorary member of the Swedish Academy of Sciences, and in April 1764 - an honorary member of the Academy of Sciences of the Bologna Institute. While in Paris, I. I. Shuvalov intended to submit Lomonosov’s candidacy to the Paris Academy, but it was already too late. April 4 (15), 1765 "after a new seizure of his former illness, which he had developed from a cold," Lomonosov died in his house on the Moika. On April 8, he was buried with a large crowd of people at the Lazarevsky cemetery of the Alexander Nevsky Lavra. A monument made of Italy from Carrara marble was installed on his grave.
            https://narfu.ru/lomonosov/about/biography.php
            1. venaya
              venaya 21 December 2017 13: 03 New
              +5
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              The real Mikhail Vasilievich Lomonosov died at the zenith of glory in his house from pneumonia.

              Why is he and where did he earn the so-called "pneumonia"? With his income. Did he not go to jail? That the Senate has not sentenced him to death? And what does the Swedish Academy of Sciences have to do with it? After all, representatives of the Academy of Ingushetia, and not Sweden, were knocking at it. That's because he had a sky-high authority at the World Scientific Level, Catherine didn’t dare to execute (enforce) the Senate’s sentence, but they treated him with a cunning clash, so to speak, “both ours and yours”. Is it really not clear? To learn more about this topic, see: "The death penalty and Mikhail Lomonosov!"- https://rusvic.ru/index.php?threads/Mortal
              b-and-Mikhail-Lomonosov. 1310 /. There is more about in. Academies and about "ours." There are other similar materials, there are already many publications on this subject. So unfortunately very few people know about the real M. Lomonosov.
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 21 December 2017 13: 15 New
                +6
                Why is he and where did he earn the so-called "pneumonia"? With his income. Did he not go to jail?

                And where are the revenues? Bacteria and viruses don't care what your income is. Before antibiotics, pneumonia was one of the most common deaths. Overcooling, no problem. I drank a few cups, zelo of strong wine, walked around with an open coat and "music will play in your house, but you won’t hear it." Influenza also appeared yesterday. The main complication is the same as pneumonia.
                1. just exp
                  just exp 22 December 2017 22: 16 New
                  +2
                  Does the existence of bacteria cancel the Senate sentence?
                  and if there has been persecution of a person, then does the disease cancel these persecutions?
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 23 December 2017 03: 26 New
                    0
                    The stage of "red guardianship" ends lethally within two days, sometimes, or even faster.
              2. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 13: 35 New
                +6
                Sorry, but your link ... as it’s softer to say ... it not only leads to the forum of some anti-Semites with an admixture of neo-Nazism elements (statements about races, etc.), but also refers to material that doesn’t confirmed by sources and contains footnotes on the forum of some esotericists (!) and the so-called "new chronology" Fomenko! This, to put it mildly, is like referring to the Ren-TV program about aliens from the planet Nibiru.
            2. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ 21 December 2017 14: 23 New
              +8
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Uh ... This, sorry, what? Quote from a very alternative story novel?

              The lieutenant, venaya a noble writer, He already wrote a lot of things, referring to the same science fiction writers, but already from the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences.
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 21 December 2017 14: 30 New
                +4
                Thank you for notification! hi References to the "academicians" of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences are, of course, a "strong" argument. smile
                1. just exp
                  just exp 22 December 2017 00: 24 New
                  +2
                  Do you trust the London Academy?
            3. just exp
              just exp 22 December 2017 00: 23 New
              +2
              I'm talking about Ivan Poddubny, I can also write that he died at the zenith of glory and in the comfort of a mild heart attack, but I just won’t write that his health undermined chronic malnutrition and exhaustion.
              and upa, the picture is reversed.
          2. Hoc vince
            Hoc vince 21 December 2017 18: 10 New
            +3
            “My supervisor of studies, the guru of history, academician Andrei Sakharov, told me that there are two professional communities, very narrow and very dangerous, which are best avoided. These are male ballet and historians »Medinsky
        2. just exp
          just exp 22 December 2017 00: 19 New
          +3
          What the fuck are the remains of the Mongoloids?
          only arrowheads and a little saber, and who else thought that these tips were Mongolian, for the Mongols themselves did not know what they had.
      5. Dzungar
        Dzungar 21 December 2017 20: 13 New
        +4
        The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and the Will to freedom, which was not killed, no matter what. Through the Joy of Great Victories, and the bitterness of great losses ... Through hard work during the wars and creative work after the wars ... Through hundreds and thousands of burnt cities and villages, and even more rebuilt ... Through the seas of shed sweat and seas shed both their own and others ’blood ... All this - FOR MANY CENTURIES - AND NO MORE ...! Not for a second fantasizing about its alien origin. without thinking at all, and not even allowing the thought that the descendants would suddenly say that “it wasn’t. All of this fiction happened all by itself, we are great by ourselves, we are from outer space .... We sat with folded legs on our tummy, and everything just happened so simply. We just looked simply and ate popcorn ... "Denying the past, the history of our Great Ancestors, because of our pride, because of the lying voice of the frail, vile and petty little souls living inside you -" no, not there was this, this simply could not be .. "by this you do not simply deny your past - YOU DESTROY IT E. You say: THERE WASN'T THESE OUR ANCESTORS, IN A TERRIBLE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY FOR THE AGES OF FORGIVING THE UNFIBERABLE SPIRIT OF THE PEOPLE .... It is with the external, and not in the internal internecine wars and squabbles of the Russian, when the brother goes There is no valor or honor in this internal internecine massacre. It doesn’t add anything to the people, it doesn’t give anything — neither the addition of the power of the Spirit, nor the Will to Victory and Freedom ... and What you know about the victories of the Russian people, about its Spirit and ability to fight for their Earth and their Faith - WHERE IT ALL TAKEN ...? If you believe it - IN THE INTERNAL GRAVE BETWEEN THE RUSSIANS, IT IS SHAMNESS TOGETHER WHEN YOURS KILL YOURS ..... Did not think your Great ancestors didn’t guess that their descendants would be able to succumb to these nonsense ... They completely shredded .. All their Great works are worthless .. Not it turned out to be ... In vain they endured 240 years, perished, accumulated strength, gathered their Earth and people in one fist so that at one point they would bring down the Enemy with all their might .... In vain they later repelled the attacks and raids both from the south, from the west, and from the east .... You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia and like in Africa. The color of the skin can only be different, the cut of the eyes. AND ALL LAWS OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT ARE APPLICABLE TO YOU. Applicable and required. AND ONLY THE SEVERE FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTERNAL ENEMY TARGING YOU TO WORK OR DESTROY FOR YOUR OWN SURVIVAL FOR AGES HAS MADE YOU SUCH ... Great people. And now you are destroying the memory of these centuries with your own hands ... What can this lead to ...? THE PEOPLE FORGOTTEN HIS HISTORY - DOOMED TO REPEAT IT AGAIN ....
        1. Spnsr
          Spnsr 22 December 2017 00: 37 New
          +4
          Quote: Dzungar
          You, Russians, you are the same kind of Homo Samiens as in Europe, as in Asia, as in Africa

          So it’s not scary, but rather about it! Russian word adjective! This belongs to a certain circle of people. GDP called the Russian world, so this is a reference to the Russian world, so Russian German is a familiar term, Russian Georgian! And how many nationalities are there so many Russians, if you want, Russian is imperial, and attribution to the local is narrow nationalism and a desire to sacrifice oneself (do you need examples of victims? Where are the warriors still going)
        2. Luga
          Luga 22 December 2017 11: 51 New
          +4
          Quote: Dzungar
          The Russian people are the GREAT PEOPLE ..... And they become Great after passing through the centuries-old history of victories and defeats, through the humiliation of subjugation by others, and not yet killed the Will to Freedom.

          ... and hereinafter.
          Thanks for the good and correct words. hi
          With all the abundance of commentaries, to this, with permission, the "work" of Samsonov, which I simply did not have time to read physically, yours drew attention to yourself. Thanks again.
          I would also like to thank other users who opposed the author of the article and his followers - militant degenerates from history.
      6. BABAY22
        BABAY22 23 December 2017 02: 33 New
        0
        Well yes. And everyone knows that there were no Hordes and the Russians are not the same. And who suddenly still does not know this - look at the Hollywood film "matrix" - everything is proved and laid out there.
        And especially smart people can familiarize themselves with the work of Comrade Plato, entitled "The Myth of the Cave", there this theme is also described in detail.
      7. Cxnumx
        Cxnumx 24 December 2017 06: 32 New
        +1
        for all admirers of this muddy article, where not a single historical source is given, and all the “arguments” are taken from the “head”.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY
    2. igordok
      igordok 21 December 2017 07: 35 New
      +9
      Theoretical historians, and not come up with just a sensation. Practicing historians (working with excavations) have not yet come up with anything new.
      Especially for the author. I like more than the original.
      1. venaya
        venaya 21 December 2017 08: 01 New
        17
        Quote: igordok
        Theoretical historians, and not come up with just a sensation. Practicing historians (working with excavations) have not yet come up with anything new.

        Oh Lord, my goodness. Modern and not very modern historians have pondered such a thing that "mother do not grieve." You just try to read at least modern “History” textbooks in different countries of the World. Your opinion about these “specialists” will change greatly. Even if their conclusions regarding the beginning of WWII and WWII are worthwhile, over the course of thirty years I have seen and heard their “analysis” and conclusions that the war was started by JV Stalin, and many are still convinced of this, and even our country. So their opinion for me has not been credible for a long time, but as for the archaeological site, you are clearly wrong in this. The fact is that not historians but archaeologists are engaged in excavations, and the results of their activities have been successfully hidden for centuries. Consider this important point, in this place people often confuse concepts, though not without the help of active assistants in the form of just historians.
    3. antivirus
      antivirus 21 December 2017 08: 18 New
      +8
      The Russian compound bow was much more powerful and long-range than the famous English bow.

      - and even the smell from the home is more complicated, "more diverse."
      REMINDS THE ODOR OF THE MOON DUST.
      therefore, the Vatican hid all pieces of lunar soil in secret safes in the United States
    4. Vend
      Vend 21 December 2017 10: 05 New
      11
      We must know and remember that the fake of the "Mongols from Mongolia" was launched by Catholic Rome - the then "command post" of the Western community.
      Here is the news then. And why did Rome need this? 90's delirium continues the procession through the pages of books and sites. The author, but what about the Mongolian legends about Temuchin-Genghis Khan? How to reduce the population of Russia? And the archaeological site of the burnt cities? And the statements of the Orthodox Church about the well-deserved punishment in the image of the Mongol-Tatars? What about the battle of Kalka? What about standing on the Ugra River? Tribute to the Crimean, Kazan khans in later times? If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the “struggle for independence” of Russia from the Golden Horde arise figuratively? The wind blew?
      There is only one thing to agree with, and this is confirmed by the continued existence of the Golden Horde. It was not the Mongols who came to Russia, but a horde from many different nations.
      1. novel66
        novel66 21 December 2017 11: 46 New
        12
        but nevertheless agree that the Mongol-Tatars sounds like Finno-Jews!
        1. Vend
          Vend 21 December 2017 11: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: novel xnumx
          but nevertheless agree that the Mongol-Tatars sounds like Finno-Jews!

          I did not deal with the roots of this term, it will be necessary to delve into.
          1. just exp
            just exp 22 December 2017 00: 25 New
            +1
            not worth it, otherwise you will find out something else that you should not know, how will you live then?
            1. novel66
              novel66 22 December 2017 09: 58 New
              +3
              regret better about done than not done!
            2. Vend
              Vend 22 December 2017 10: 36 New
              0
              Quote: just EXPL
              not worth it, otherwise you will find out something else that you should not know, how will you live then?

              It’s difficult to get knowledge, to make something even more difficult with it. Yes, as well as now, I have already dug up a lot of interesting things from the Slavs and Scandinavians that my articles cause tantrum. and allegations of fantasy. But I don’t give out anything, except for fonts from chronographs.
              1. novel66
                novel66 22 December 2017 11: 54 New
                +5
                there is such a term - "official history" that is driven in like a nail in the lessons. and if suddenly historical facts contradict this, a cognitive dissonance arises, expressed, in fact, in hysteria wink
                1. Vend
                  Vend 22 December 2017 12: 35 New
                  0
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  there is such a term - "official history" that is driven in like a nail in the lessons. and if suddenly historical facts contradict this, a cognitive dissonance arises, expressed, in fact, in hysteria wink

                  There is, regularly come across laughing
              2. just exp
                just exp 22 December 2017 20: 45 New
                +2
                let them hysteria, they rewrote history over the centuries, and they will not immediately return it back either. many years will pass until the harm done by Hitler is forgotten.
                and the rest will drag on for even longer.
                but it’s still necessary to start.
      2. Spnsr
        Spnsr 22 December 2017 00: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Wend
        If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the “struggle for independence” of Russia from the Golden Horde arise figuratively? The wind blew?

        Literally? As well as the liberation from the Soviet yoke of enslaved peoples!
        1. Vend
          Vend 22 December 2017 10: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: SpnSr
          Quote: Wend
          If there was no invasion, there was no tribute, then from what fright did the “struggle for independence” of Russia from the Golden Horde arise figuratively? The wind blew?

          Literally? As well as the liberation from the Soviet yoke of enslaved peoples!

          Not sure if I understood what you wanted to say.
          1. Spnsr
            Spnsr 22 December 2017 22: 41 New
            +3
            only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
            so is this yoke from the same opera !!!
            1. Vend
              Vend 25 December 2017 09: 23 New
              0
              Quote: SpnSr
              only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
              so is this yoke from the same opera !!!

              This is nonsense, but there have been a lot of such writers since the 90's.
              1. Spnsr
                Spnsr 25 December 2017 22: 48 New
                +2
                Quote: Wend
                Quote: SpnSr
                only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
                so is this yoke from the same opera !!!

                This is nonsense, but there have been a lot of such writers since the 90's.

                strange, but today, how is Russia being presented in the West?
                1. Vend
                  Vend 26 December 2017 10: 31 New
                  +1
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  Quote: Wend
                  Quote: SpnSr
                  only that the USSR, too, was presented to someone like a yoke! such as the myth of enslaved peoples.
                  so is this yoke from the same opera !!!

                  This is nonsense, but there have been a lot of such writers since the 90's.

                  strange, but today, how is Russia being presented in the West?
                  Like an occupier. In the United States there is even a holiday, Day of the Nations Occupied by Russia, I may be mistaken in the name, but the meaning is this.
                  1. Spnsr
                    Spnsr 26 December 2017 22: 03 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Wend
                    As an occupier

                    So what is it about! And the yoke from the same opera !!!
                    1. Vend
                      Vend 27 December 2017 10: 41 New
                      0
                      Quote: SpnSr
                      Quote: Wend
                      As an occupier

                      So what is it about! And the yoke from the same opera !!!

                      Not that example.
      3. xtur
        xtur 23 December 2017 12: 55 New
        0
        > How to reduce the population of Russia? And the archaeological site of the burnt cities?

        But is there a chronology of destruction, a chronology of the appearance of the term Mongol-Tatar invasion, analyzes, materials available on the network, DNA analysis results? If there are no DNA analyzes, all allegations of Mongol conquest are forested.

        For some reason, among the Armenians, some of the princes agreed with the Mongols, and initially became their allies, some were not. the Mongols were quite negotiable for those who wanted to negotiate with them, and apparently for those with whom he himself was not ashamed to negotiatehow did it happen that the princes, who saw that they were inferior to them numerically, could not agree with them right away and waited until they were bent, they would take away their wives, they would slaughter the population, and they would burn the cities, and then they would receive yasaks for power on a regular basis.
        All this is more than strange
        1. Vend
          Vend 26 December 2017 10: 33 New
          0
          Quote: xtur
          > How to reduce the population of Russia? And the archaeological site of the burnt cities?

          But is there a chronology of destruction, a chronology of the appearance of the term Mongol-Tatar invasion, analyzes, materials available on the network, DNA analysis results? If there are no DNA analyzes, all allegations of Mongol conquest are forested.

          For some reason, among the Armenians, some of the princes agreed with the Mongols, and initially became their allies, some were not. the Mongols were quite negotiable for those who wanted to negotiate with them, and apparently for those with whom he himself was not ashamed to negotiatehow did it happen that the princes, who saw that they were inferior to them numerically, could not agree with them right away and waited until they were bent, they would take away their wives, they would slaughter the population, and they would burn the cities, and then they would receive yasaks for power on a regular basis.
          All this is more than strange

          You are against the Mongol invasion, then you are for. Decide already. And about DNA, this auxiliary discipline for history has appeared recently, so you should not blame everything on these studies.
          1. xtur
            xtur 27 December 2017 23: 08 New
            0
            I am interested in the truth - but the fact that we are taught is very difficult compatible with logic. I have not yet met facts that cannot be interpreted differently.

            In many matters, DNA is not an auxiliary thing at all. For example, at one time they introduced the theory of Urartians, which cannot be distinguished from Armenians anthropologically, and by a wonderful coincidence, all the roots of the Urartian language are contained in the Armenian language.
            Would we conduct a DNA analysis of these entities, and make it clear that Urartu is a phantom of anti-Armenian scientists, or is it another zigzag of history
            1. Vend
              Vend 28 December 2017 09: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: xtur
              I am interested in the truth - but the fact that we are taught is very difficult compatible with logic. I have not yet met facts that cannot be interpreted differently.

              In many matters, DNA is not an auxiliary thing at all. For example, at one time they introduced the theory of Urartians, which cannot be distinguished from Armenians anthropologically, and by a wonderful coincidence, all the roots of the Urartian language are contained in the Armenian language.
              Would we conduct a DNA analysis of these entities, and make it clear that Urartu is a phantom of anti-Armenian scientists, or is it another zigzag of history

              DNA research is gaining momentum, but I think this discipline will not be allowed into historical science. There will be too many shocks, and interestingly, not in the history of Russia, but in the history of Europe. And about Urartu, this is a territorial story. Namely, what is found on the territory of the country is considered to be distant ancestors. And not only Armenians sin this, in Europe this trend has been such a long time. I once asked an Armenian acquaintance, but is there a name Rus or Rus in Armenia? No answer followed. Then I told him that this was the name of the kings of Urartu. The man was very puzzled.
              1. xtur
                xtur 30 December 2017 12: 23 New
                0
                > And about Urartu, this is a territorial story.

                no, it's not like that, that's what the Urartian theory is designed for. Meanwhile, the entire religious system of the Urartians is entirely Indo-European - it is reliably established, in addition to cuneiform records, there are an order of magnitude more finds with a different script, alphabetic-syllable, which has not yet been deciphered.
                According to modern scientific concepts, a people and a nation (and these are different political concepts) are determined by religion and the myth system closely related to it - since the Urartian religion is Indo-European, and not Hurrian, the Urartians themselves, regardless of their blood, are like a nation Indo-Europeans, not Hurrians

                As for Rusa, you have encountered either a dishonest or a poorly educated person, what's the point of denying well-known facts.

                From a biological point of view, Armenian genes, that complex of features that are called so, took shape in the middle of the third millennium BC, and since then it has not changed much, so everything on the territory of Armenia is all ours, Armenian.

                And the Armenian genes were found in the Etruscans, among the Minoans, among the Mycenaeans - this is all about the third or second millennium BC

                Speaking of genes, I refer to the data of foreign researchers
    5. Blombirus
      Blombirus 21 December 2017 11: 33 New
      +6
      Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.
      1. Vend
        Vend 21 December 2017 12: 01 New
        +2
        Quote: BlombiRus
        Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.

        Yes you? Liberal lies telling the truth is funny. Who would not write a chronicle, it was approved by the princes, do you consider them enemies?
        1. Blombirus
          Blombirus 21 December 2017 13: 41 New
          +6
          Quote: Wend
          Quote: BlombiRus
          Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.

          Yes you? Liberal lies telling the truth is funny. Who would not write a chronicle, it was approved by the princes, do you consider them enemies?

          You should understand the difference between the Torah and the Chronicles. For starters, and then have fun.
          1. Vend
            Vend 21 December 2017 14: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: BlombiRus
            Quote: Wend
            Quote: BlombiRus
            Since they finally started talking about it, it means the TRUTH is returning to Russia. The so-called "history" was written by our enemies. Our CHRONICLE is distorted and slandered by them. Abrahamic, Semitic religions, the bloodiest religions on the planet. What a meanness, to forget your ancestors and honor the aliens.

            Yes you? Liberal lies telling the truth is funny. Who would not write a chronicle, it was approved by the princes, do you consider them enemies?

            You should understand the difference between the Torah and the Chronicles. For starters, and then have fun.

            As they wrote, I understood. You didn’t mention the torus at all, and what does the Jewish script have to do with it? It has no relation in the old Russian chronicles.
            1. Blombirus
              Blombirus 21 December 2017 19: 56 New
              +4
              The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?
              1. KaPToC
                KaPToC 21 December 2017 20: 49 New
                +5
                Quote: BlombiRus
                The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?

                This is your Jewish story - from the Torah. And the Russians have a history from antiquity.
                1. Blombirus
                  Blombirus 22 December 2017 01: 22 New
                  +3
                  Quote: KaPToC
                  Quote: BlombiRus
                  The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?

                  This is your Jewish story - from the Torah. And the Russians have a history from antiquity.

                  You yourself are a Jew. We always had CHRONICLES. It was considered not years, but SUMMER! Well dense then that?
                  1. KaPToC
                    KaPToC 22 December 2017 19: 51 New
                    0
                    Quote: BlombiRus
                    Well dense then that?

                    But it’s you who we have “from the Torah”, what are such “summers” in the torus?
              2. Vend
                Vend 22 December 2017 10: 38 New
                0
                Quote: BlombiRus
                The story is taken from the Torah. Anestend?

                What other story is taken from the Torah?
          2. parma
            parma 21 December 2017 14: 49 New
            +5
            I will stand on the side of the author (really for fun, do not hit hard, sane people) ..
            You see, Pontiffs as representatives of aliens from Alpha Centauri had the opportunity to look into the future, they saw that in the 100500 century AD, the great and powerful Ruses would lead our planet to great happiness, because already in the 100500 century BC they flew into space (that's why Poland is strong and wants to space), had a developed industry and culture! Therefore, in the VIII-XIII centuries, Vatican spies destroyed society, led to the degradation of the culture and science of the Rus, exterminated 99% of the population (populating their lands with vile Franks, Germans, Saxons, etc.) and finished falsifying history just yesterday! And for more than a thousand years, they have been digging into the earth evidence of their pseudo-history, such as elements of everyday life and utensils!
            Joke.... wassat
            1. Blombirus
              Blombirus 21 December 2017 20: 05 New
              +3
              The fabulist Krylov also joked like that. The joker who joked about the Mongols from Mongolia was also a big dreamer.
              1. Vend
                Vend 22 December 2017 10: 39 New
                0
                Quote: BlombiRus
                The fabulist Krylov also joked like that. The joker who joked about the Mongols from Mongolia was also a big dreamer.

                Just don’t say it to the Mongols, they’ll laugh. laughing
                1. Spnsr
                  Spnsr 26 December 2017 22: 11 New
                  +2
                  laughing I laugh too! laughing especially the name in view of the classification of racial, ethnic nationalities and all that arose at the end of the 18th century and developed throughout the 19th laughing laughing
            2. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 23 December 2017 18: 38 New
              0
              I quote a piece of the article ----- “the word khan comes from“ kokhan, kokhan, “beloved, respected.” ”------ Or maybe from the Jewish Kogan-Kaganate .... That is, they loved the power of the Jews over themselves. ..Favorite-kokhaniy- kokhan-kogan ... Maybe the Jews are the Mongol Tatars. And? What .. They drove them out of the promised land, and they went horde on the ground ... They walked, walked, walked, and came ... laughing And that my version has the right to life am am
    6. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis 21 December 2017 21: 45 New
      +4
      Fantasy .. Right super science fiction! All Russia is in ruins, China is in ruins! India under the great moguls, Central Asia, in fact, like South Russia ceased to exist for centuries .. Wild field .. Neither the population, nor cities, nor civilization .. One large pasture .. I am delighted with science fiction analysts! Slavic -Rus went from China to Hungary and destroyed everything .... Excellent !!
    7. ★ VLADIMIR ★
      ★ VLADIMIR ★ 22 December 2017 21: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      What can I say .. Better without any comments ..)

      I agree with you 100%. The only sensible comment from all. What can we talk about. If all these historians have talkers online, either from birth, or from mind-blowing propaganda. Not a single gyrus stirred in the Cavo, or due to the lack thereof. Why Peter-1 changed the calendar in Russia. He, just like our Pokémon, both in the government and in the networks, is not something that was striving to the west. And he was torn up by rolling up his sleeves. And the calculus in Russia before him went beyond 6 millennia. Here is one of the arguments for where such a calculus of a clogged illiterate servile country comes from.
    8. nickname7
      nickname7 23 December 2017 19: 21 New
      +3
      Zadornovshchina, Fomenkovism and other false systems seem to be taking up, apparently the era of obscurantism and a rollback in the Middle Ages are coming. The official history is based on a scientific approach and on written sources and on written sources, on excavations of archaeological sites, sites, cultures. What the author has no idea. The deeper into the past, the more blurry and weaker the information, and the more difficult it is to understand how it was. according to "Okamma's razor", "One should not multiply things unnecessarily." Everything written by the author, is - bullshit. He especially smiled that the Mongol nomads did not have herds, because you can’t feed the herds in the steppes, what nonsense, at least read Chinese chronicles. China, the Mongols conquered and became the ruling dynasty.
    9. evgeny68
      evgeny68 23 December 2017 22: 15 New
      0
      Lev Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe: read, study, and the author’s article will not seem unusual to you. In fact, there are not so many primary sources, therefore, only the scientific genius of Gumilyov quite clearly described this time, based on an analysis of the primary sources, climate change, political situation and many other factors. The invasion was not a proven fact, the entire army of the Mongols that came to Russia no more than 30 thousand. This is about one hundred thousand horses, because the Mongol warrior had three horses, combat, marching and pack. It was difficult to feed even such an amount, not to mention the hordes of the Mongols in 300 thousand soldiers declared by German historians who wrote Russian history on order. It was not an invasion, it was a raid. Generally read Gumilyov very interesting.
      1. Vend
        Vend 28 December 2017 09: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: evgeny68
        Lev Gumilyov: Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe: read, study, and the author’s article will not seem unusual to you. In fact, there are not so many primary sources, therefore, only the scientific genius of Gumilyov quite clearly described this time, based on an analysis of the primary sources, climate change, political situation and many other factors. The invasion was not a proven fact, the entire army of the Mongols that came to Russia no more than 30 thousand. This is about one hundred thousand horses, because the Mongol warrior had three horses, combat, marching and pack. It was difficult to feed even such an amount, not to mention the hordes of the Mongols in 300 thousand soldiers declared by German historians who wrote Russian history on order. It was not an invasion, it was a raid. Generally read Gumilyov very interesting.

        Gumilev is still a dreamer. He wrote the greatest anthem of the Jewish nation in a book about the Khazar Kaganate, and then wrote that no archaeological evidence of the presence of Jews in the Khazar Kaganate was found.
  2. Comrade
    Comrade 21 December 2017 05: 59 New
    +7
    If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?
    1. 210ox
      210ox 21 December 2017 06: 13 New
      10
      How with whom! With evil Russians! wassat Read the article carefully .. I just do not quite understand how the Horde could get there ... They barely harnessed to Smolensk, where they got it in tinsel from the squad of Mercury. By the way, he is recognized as a saint ..
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?
      1. anderson
        anderson 21 December 2017 09: 40 New
        12
        First, mercury was Czech and indirectly related to Russians (he served as a mercenary in the squad of the Smolensk prince). Secondly, the horde did not go to Smolensk, just as it did not go to Pskov and Novgorod due to the impassable terrain when approaching Smolensk from the south of Bryansk. To Smolensk (20 km from the city) approached a small reconnaissance detachment of the Horde which was destroyed by a squad led? or with the participation of Mercury. At the same time, Mercury himself died (apparently was wounded in the head and died of wounds). Church legend says that he returned to the city with a truncated head. The Tatar-Mongols reached almost Vienna and retreated only in connection with the death of Genghis Khan. And so they drove Europe very successfully, and there is written evidence of this. And no one identifies them with the Russians there .. And the "great power Rurikovich" at the beginning of the arrival of the Mongols was a miserable sight of the biting princes among themselves, who did not disdain to invite Polovtsy, Poles and others to attack the neighboring Russian principalities " guests. " Similar articles should be immediately transferred to the section of fairy tales and fentozy.
        1. just exp
          just exp 22 December 2017 00: 27 New
          +2
          Wow . the Mongols reached Vienna, but the road prevented them from Novgorod;
          By the way, do not tell me, and what kind of wheels stood on the horses of that period that in the spring they could not move on the roads?
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 21 December 2017 20: 24 New
        0
        But Batu’s troops didn’t feel defeat from some Mercury, although I can admit that they could have cut out some kind of watchdog.
    2. venaya
      venaya 21 December 2017 06: 41 New
      14
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom then Germans and other Czechs fought in the XNUMXth century?

      Here's a catch: in those years the XNUMXth century there were no Germans or Czechs in sight, the future "Germans" spoke excellent Russian, and there was Bohemia in the Czech Republic, but such trifles, unfortunately, are now few people are interested, but sorry.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 07: 23 New
        10
        Quote: venaya
        "Germans"

        The word "Germans" is purely Russian, the root word is "dumb". hi
        1. venaya
          venaya 21 December 2017 07: 43 New
          +6
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The word "Germans" is purely Russian, the root word is "dumb".

          Of course, our word, it was just that in those days in that part of Russia, everyone spoke old-fashioned Russian, after the prohibition of which the Slovenian Rus turned into a non-verb Russ, or otherwise simplified by the Germans. Only such people back in the XNUMXth century were not enough, the modern German language had not yet been invented, the Templars under the leadership of Protestant Martin Luther did this. He then translated the Bible but the language they newly created, after which full-fledged "Germans" appeared, that is, Germanized Russians.
          1. otto meer
            otto meer 21 December 2017 10: 12 New
            +5
            Quote: venaya
            modern German language did not yet have time to invent
            Moreover - they still continue to invent. The debate over Schroeder's reform is still ongoing. Someone refuses, someone has already accepted, someone has accepted but soon refused. Official documents, even within the same land, can be written in both the new and the old. Therefore, a single German is still nothing more than a myth. But nonetheless
            Quote: venaya
            the Templars under the leadership of Protestant Martin Luther took up this task. He then translated the Bible but the language they newly created
            The role of Luther, who did by the way not
            Quote: venaya
            then
            , and in 1521 and 1534, the creation of a standard New German is greatly exaggerated. He did not create anything. Norms Neuhochdeutsch were in the course of the century 2 more before his translations. Remember Fruhneuhochdeutsch. Another thing Martin's popularizing activity is yes.
            And about
            Quote: venaya
            Rus-Slovenia turned into Rus-non-verb, or otherwise simplified Germans
            it's generally some kind of game!
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 21 December 2017 08: 20 New
        +9
        Quote: venaya
        Here's a catch: in those years, the XNUMXth century there were no Germans or Czechs in sight,

        Chekhov was not mentioned ?????
        In the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries, the power of the Przemysłowicz dynasty was strengthened over the Czech tribe, who for several centuries struggled with the Slavnikovich clan from the Zlichan tribe, as well as the Vrshovs from the Luchan tribe. In the end, the Przemysłowicz gathered all the neighboring Czech tribes under their rule and formed a single Principality of the Czech Republic.
      3. anderson
        anderson 21 December 2017 09: 44 New
        13
        Damn the Czechs and the Germans did not know that they were not there and had already been established by the time of Prague and Vienna universities, so that later their descendants would not carry such pozriotic nonsense as in your post.
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 December 2017 13: 11 New
          +3
          Here is the Catalan atlas. The oldest card that has survived to the present in the original. It dates back to 1375. AD, of course. More precisely, not the entire Atlas, but part of it - central and eastern Europe.

          Can you show the Czech Republic?
          1. anderson
            anderson 29 December 2017 18: 23 New
            0
            Before putting the map, it would be nice to rotate it correctly, and so you have it upside down. Prague - in the 14th century under Emperor Charles IV, when it became the capital of the Great Roman Empire. But this is unknown to a person who does not know anything in the history of Europe. Therefore, you are looking for the Czech Republic on a map of the 14th century. Apparently further, "Zhmerynka" you have never been. So before posting bullshit, read the story.
        2. Spnsr
          Spnsr 27 December 2017 21: 50 New
          +2
          Quote: anderson
          Damn the Czechs and the Germans did not know that they were not there and had already been established by the time of Prague and Vienna universities, so that later their descendants would not carry such pozriotic nonsense as in your post.

          Well, in the territories of the former Soviet republics, cities and factories were also not built by local residents!
          1. anderson
            anderson 28 December 2017 09: 45 New
            +1
            Universities opened, of which in Russia there was not yet another 500 years. Guilds flourished in the cities of which, subsequently, Russia hired specialists from doctors to cannon craftsmen and architects. It is not necessary to drag Russians by their ears where they were not and could not be. You are aware that in the archaeological finds of the 8-10th century throughout the territory of ancient Russia, not a single sword is known made by the tribes living in this territory. How can some highly developed culture not leave its material traces (especially in terms of weapons)? No need to look for the greatness of the Russian people in ancient times, it is not there. The greatness of the Russian people lies in the fact that they were able to preserve and conquer vast territories and then in several jerks under tremendous exertion of forces under Ivan the Terrible, Peter 1, Catherine 2, and the Bolsheviks (mainly under Stalin), with wild resistance to the West and internal shocks caught up and in places and surpassed Western civilization. Achievements of the Russian people do not need to add any fiction to them, they are fantastic without it.
            1. Dzungar
              Dzungar 28 December 2017 18: 05 New
              0
              I’m telling them about this ....
              1. anderson
                anderson 29 December 2017 09: 49 New
                +1
                The ravings themselves about the “super ancient” Russians are not interesting because they are easily broken by archeology and other historical sources. Interest is caused by those who throw this nonsense. This is not just children's fairy tales, it is an attempt to pour into the ears of those who do not seriously study history, but only a heap of garbage soars on the Internet instead of the history of their country. The reception has already been tested on topics related to other periods of history (in the above privacy of the Second World War). The goal is to spoil our history in any way. And when these "wise men" are put in place in one forum, they wander to the other and look for free ears there .. Therefore, everyone who cares about the history of their country, and therefore its future should be serious about this shusher (including moderators) and if someone decided to tweet such a pseudo-historical article on the forum, then you should ask the author for a list of sources on which he relies when he writes this nonsense. And without references to sources, publishing such topics and discussing them is pointless ..
                1. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 29 December 2017 18: 22 New
                  +2
                  Quote: anderson
                  The ravings themselves about the "super ancient" Russ are uninteresting

                  In what place are they ravings? Interestingly, it turns out that everyone has ancient ancestors and only Russians arose from the air! Have they arrived from Alpha Centauri? Why can't Russians have ancient ancestors?
                  Quote: anderson
                  any way to spoil our history

                  Under the tsars, the Germans spoiled Russian history for three hundred years - by the way, what you believe is a censored story.
      4. Dimmih
        Dimmih 21 December 2017 12: 34 New
        +7
        I will note to you that you and others like you are completely original. There was such a Platon Lukashevich at the time of it, also everywhere the Slavs imagined him. So you are not the pioneers in the land of twilight consciousness.
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 21 December 2017 08: 10 New
      12
      This is all written in the annals by English spies to annoy the superethnos!
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 21 December 2017 08: 21 New
        11
        Quote: kalibr
        This is all written in the annals by English spies to annoy the superethnos!

        For any Anglo-Saxons again to blame laughing
    4. Boris55
      Boris55 21 December 2017 10: 44 New
      +5
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?

      Who fought with? You do not know with whom A. Nevsky fought on Lake Peipsi? laughing
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 21 December 2017 19: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: Boris55
        Who fought with? You do not know with whom A. Nevsky fought on Lake Peipsi?

        With the Livonian Order, of course, and on the territory of the Order itself! laughing Someone, along with a lake of the same name (surprise!) Was a vassal of the Order, and Alexander Yaroslavich, later nicknamed for intolerance, Nevsky came to restore justice there, to rob. For feudalism, the Middle Ages, cho! Now, for example, you are restoring justice, and then, looking, you’re already robbing, you’re burning neighboring villages, depriving, so to speak, the adversary of the feed base ... And at the same time (which is wonderful) you are undoubtedly in your right! Vopchem: Forgive us Livonians! laughing And you, is it about something else?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 22 December 2017 06: 05 New
          +1
          Someone, along with a lake of the same name (surprise!) Was a vassal of the Order

          Oooo, this chud !!!!
    5. novel66
      novel66 21 December 2017 11: 52 New
      +9
      on their monuments, these Mongols are strikingly similar to Russians
    6. Spnsr
      Spnsr 26 December 2017 22: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?

      With whom the whole type of civilized world is still fighting ...
    7. reg
      reg 28 December 2017 10: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: Comrade
      If there was no Tatar invasion, then with whom did the Germans and other Czechs fight in the 13th century?

      With tartars. Which the Greeks called "Mughals." Which meant "long, tall."
      Long, it doesn't look very much like the Mongols, right?
  3. Finches
    Finches 21 December 2017 05: 59 New
    +8
    I would say that there was something of a modern confederation, and the Russian princes to the rulers of Sarai paid tribute and received labels to reign, but this was on a voluntary basis and in the framework of the feudal relations of that time! Naturally there were military clashes, and there was the ruin of Kiev and the Battle of Kulikovo, and the great standing on the Ugra River, but this is solely due to constantly arising and growing contradictions within the confederation! In the end, the Russian princes decided "reign yourself and rule everything", that is, they moved to a higher level of state thinking, unlike the second half of the "Tatar-Mongol"!
    1. marline
      marline 21 December 2017 16: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: Finches
      I would say that there was something of a modern confederation

      This is called vassality. And the phenomenon for the Middle Ages is standard and widespread - for feudalism.
  4. Korsar4
    Korsar4 21 December 2017 06: 05 New
    20
    And Samarkand and Bukhara did not take? And Khorezm Shah himself escaped to an island in the Caspian Sea? And there was no Kalki? And the evil city did not take?

    With all the legends of many events, and the debatability of many issues - for example, about the size of the troops, and the number of horses, any event leaves a mark in the world.

    This is our story. And you can not turn into Ivanov, not remembering kinship.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 21 December 2017 08: 23 New
      +2
      maybe there are annals in China and Central Asia? (not under the "Vatican control"
      lower the blackboard to the baseboard.
      THE REASON FOR THE INVASION IS THE SILK WAY. HIGH TARIFFS OF CUSTOMS OF RUSSIAN PRINTS (everyone pulled on themselves and it was not profitable, they bought an army on a trip to Russia) DID NOT INSTALL MANUFACTURERS --- CHINA AND ASIA (AND USERS --- ZAP EUROPE)
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 21 December 2017 18: 07 New
        0
        Is Rashid al-Din considered? Chan chun?
        1. Seal
          Seal 22 December 2017 17: 00 New
          +3
          He is a Muslim, isn't he?
          And can you give an example of even a certain Muslim writer of the “time” or later, who instead of counting the time according to the Hijra decided to suddenly use the Chinese calendar for dating, and he also started the heading “It was a year Pigs".
          Yes, any Muslim cuts off his hand, which brought this phrase.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 21 December 2017 08: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: Korsar4
      And Samarkand and Bukhara did not take? And Khorezm Shah himself escaped to an island in the Caspian Sea? And there was no Kalki? And the evil city did not take?

      Based on the logic of the author, it is not the Mongols who conquered the floor of the world, but the Russians.
      1. dali
        dali 21 December 2017 17: 49 New
        +5
        Quote: RUSS
        Based on the logic of the author, it is not the Mongols who conquered the floor of the world, but the Russians.

        And you need to read the book of the Catholic priest Mavro Orbini "Slavic kingdom"- The first was published in 1601. in Italy ... for me, it does not add up with the fact, the fact of the Tatar-Mongol yoke. It was not in vain that the Catholic Church classified it as forbidden !!!
    3. marline
      marline 21 December 2017 16: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: Korsar4
      This is our story. And you can not turn into Ivanov, not remembering kinship.

      You can not.
      But with the Tatar-Mongol invasion, the story is really muddy ...
    4. just exp
      just exp 22 December 2017 00: 29 New
      0
      so you are just one of such Ivanovs that you are ready to consider the aliens enemies of your blood brothers, and support the Judas who betrayed their family in those days.
  5. Cxnumx
    Cxnumx 21 December 2017 06: 21 New
    16
    article on the verge of fiction, surprised that the author is not Fomenko. although ... the material on the basis of which the author draws brilliant conclusions about
    No Mongols from Mongolia to Russia never reached
    not specified.
    SW Samsonov Alexander, please kindly cite sources, but on the basis of which you make such loud statements. I personally doubt their reliability, not bias (including the lack of excessive Slavophilism / cheers of patriotism) and much more.
    Threat "sources" from the category of "everyone knows", please do not specify, because some time ago everyone knew that the earth was flat, etc.
    1. avaks111
      avaks111 21 December 2017 07: 14 New
      12
      The entire official history of the Middle Ages and previously-sucked from the finger! It is not known what is based on. It should be taken as an artistic fiction.
    2. just exp
      just exp 22 December 2017 00: 31 New
      +3
      take linguistics as a model, then find the names of Siberian and Ural rivers and toponyms and look for the same in India, when you see how many matches there are.
      but I think that you will say that it was Fomenko who flew by a time machine in those days and named those rivers and lands so that you would be put in an uncomfortable position.
    3. Cxnumx
      Cxnumx 24 December 2017 06: 33 New
      0
      an interesting video came out VERY in the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGlucDtZdjY
    4. Seal
      Seal 25 December 2017 08: 34 New
      +2
      Threat "sources" from the category of "everyone knows", please do not specify, because some time ago everyone knew that the earth was flat, etc.

      An interesting statement of the question. Prove from sources that what was not there really wasn’t. From the series: "And you prove that there is no God." hi
      1. Cxnumx
        Cxnumx 25 December 2017 08: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Seal
        An interesting statement of the question. Prove from sources that what was not there really wasn’t. From the series: "And you prove that there is no God."

        you confuse "I know because I know" and "I know because I read it in a document written by a contemporary / relatively recently of those events, the information from which was confirmed from several other sources (not directly related to the first), it is very desirable same time. "
        and yes, the question is interesting - "facts from the head" is not acceptable. and then the people read all sorts of Fomenko, and then also Zadornov (rest in peace for him) and begins to bear nonsense.
  6. Alone
    Alone 21 December 2017 06: 24 New
    15
    This information, in view of its complete discrepancy with official history, is perceived, of course, with skepticism. But knowing the fact of the complete overthrow of the same story during the time of Catherine ll and the complete disagreement of some things, such as (the author correctly pointed out) the absence of Mongolian words in Russian ( on the topic), sending loopholes in some sections of the Great Wall of China to the interior of China and finding archaeological finds under this very wall belonging to the Rus (according to anthropological analysis), etc., then the article is not completely mistrust binds.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 21 December 2017 06: 37 New
      12
      Kaftan, sundress, damask steel, warrior and so on - are not suitable?

      Once before a business trip to the East I bought a phrase book: I immediately realized that the words hazelnut, sujuk and chest are familiar.

      Of course, let philologists correct.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 21 December 2017 07: 15 New
        12
        Quote: Korsar4
        Kaftan, sundress, damask steel, warrior and so on - are not suitable?

        Kaftan, sheepskin coat, sundress, money, watermelon, ram, pit, coachman, label, Cossack, guard, nomad, treasury, treasurer, tamga (where the customs come from), profit, landlord, grub, brick, tin, shack, earring, diamond, emerald, drinks-braga, buza, shoe, cap, veil, stocking, satin, calico, calico, braid, barrow, scarlet, badger, busurman, brown, dog, head .... etc ....
      2. avaks111
        avaks111 21 December 2017 07: 16 New
        +3
        Philologists, oddly enough, base their research on the official, deceitful, chronology. So, I would not trust these "chests!" :-)
        1. forty-eighth
          forty-eighth 21 December 2017 09: 46 New
          11
          So Masons and flat Earth on elephants hide, nothing surprising laughing
          By the way, I understood why the great Hyperborea disappeared:
          the ancient Urus-Mughal-Tatar-Arians took over the whole world, and when they brought the trophies home, the Earth outweighed, leaned over, and all good, together with Hyperborea, rolled off the disk and fell. Here. laughing
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 21 December 2017 09: 50 New
            +5
            So Masons and flat Earth on elephants hide, nothing surprising

          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 21 December 2017 19: 25 New
            +4
            Quote: forty-eighth
            Ancient Uruso-Mughal-Tatar-Aryans

            Ahhhhh !!! You made my evening !!!
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 21 December 2017 06: 47 New
      15
      friendly Mongolian Hurray! aftore !!! burn on
      1. Hoc vince
        Hoc vince 21 December 2017 19: 40 New
        +1
        The author has an aphorism: “First they laugh at you, then they hate, then they fight, and only then (if your concept has passed all the tests) comes success.”
      2. Seal
        Seal 22 December 2017 16: 52 New
        +3
        The English, using this cry since at least the 15th century, are aware that it is "Mongolian"?
        Hooray !!! I am ready to agree that we adopted this battle cry from the British, many of whom began to be hired by officers in our army after the execution of the English king Charles I.
      3. Dzungar
        Dzungar 23 December 2017 08: 32 New
        +1
        URAGSHA - in Buryat and Mongolian - FORWARD. Emphasis on A ... When pronouncing, only URA is clearly audible .... I tell you how Buryat-Mongol and Oirat-Mongol
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 December 2017 08: 44 New
          +2
          Yes, who would doubt it. There is only one question - when did this word enter the Buryat and Mongolian languages?
          Who took over from whom? Whether we were from the Mongols (Buryats, Dzungars, Oirats) or they took our military cry from us, which, in turn, we borrowed from the British and gave him our (and correct) interpretation - "Forward". Since we saw and heard that it was with this cry that our troops (including the Cossacks), who in Asia put cancer of everyone, including the hitherto invincible Chinese, go ahead.
          There is a good example in history of such borrowing.
          An interesting incident occurred in early May 1868 during the Turkestan campaign of the Russian army. The four-thousandth detachment of General Kaufman at the approaches to Samarkand entered the battle with the sixty-thousandth army of the Bukhara emir Muzaffar. During the battle, General Golovachev’s infantry, right in front of the enemy’s chest, crossed the Zerafshan River in the water and in a bold bayonet attack occupied the height of Chapan-Ata. The emir’s army fled, but the Samarkand closed the gates before the fleeing and surrendered to the Russians.
          Russian soldiers, crossing the river, immediately went into battle. But the boots of the soldiers were full of water, and there was no time to take off shoes and pour water. Then the soldiers quickly stood in their arms, while the comrades shook their legs.
          Seeing this, the Bukhara people decided that they had guessed the secret of the Russians. A month later, in the battle of Zarabulak, the front ranks of the “negligents”, coming up to the gunshot, stood in their arms, and the rear ranks shook their comrades in good faith with their legs. Upon completion of this rite, none of them doubted victory.
          If the Samarkandians did this, who, according to the official version of the story, on civilizational steps are slightly higher than the Mongols and Buryats, it is not surprising that the Mongols and Buryats borrowed our battle cry from us. I believe that if they (the Mongols and Buryats) saw what the Samarkandians saw - now the Mongols (Buryats, Oirats, Dzungars, etc.) would have their "ancient national custom" before shaking each other's feet. laughing
          And this "ancient national custom" would have the corresponding name. hi
          1. Dzungar
            Dzungar 3 January 2018 10: 33 New
            0
            The word Hurray in Russian DOESN'T MEAN FORWARD, it is shouted sometimes just standing still and not going to move anywhere .... Although you are a Jew, you should know that. But this is "... among the Mongols (Buryats, Oirats, Dzungars, and so on) .." VERY CORRECT. And then here some illiterate people still don’t understand that MONGOLS ARE MONGOLS BURYATS AND KALMYKS (OIRATES) ... You are making progress
    3. Alexey Antonov
      Alexey Antonov 21 December 2017 06: 47 New
      +5
      I would give you some Mongolian words in Russian, but, I’m afraid, for censorship reasons, they should not be given here ...
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 December 2017 10: 21 New
        +5
        These popular words (I also use them occasionally fellow )
        the Mongols are believed to have seized from the Chinese they had conquered before.
        There has been a cultural exchange since ancient times. drinks
        1. AllXVahhaB
          AllXVahhaB 22 December 2017 03: 01 New
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          These popular words (I also use them occasionally)
          the Mongols are believed to have seized from the Chinese they had conquered before.
          There has been a cultural exchange since ancient times.

          Only for some reason, these words are found on birch bark letters of the pre-Mongol period ...
          1. Alexey Antonov
            Alexey Antonov 22 December 2017 11: 21 New
            +2
            Please show photos of letters.
    4. Serg65
      Serg65 21 December 2017 07: 15 New
      14
      Quote: Alone
      somehow (the author correctly pointed out) the absence of Mongolian words in Russian

      what One thing I can say, you do not know Russian well!
      Sword from Mongolian Mes
      Outback from the Mongolian Zah ulus
      Bogatyr from Mongolian bagatura
      Cheers from Mongolian Urai
      Cart from the Mongolian Telegen
      Crest from the Mongolian Gokhyol (big greetings to Great Ukrainians)
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 07: 30 New
        17
        Quote: Serg65
        Bogatyr from Mongolian bagatura

        Are you sure it's not the other way around? After all, the word BOGATYR comes from two words - GOD and MOVEMENT. Bearing God.
        Cheers from Mongolian Urai
        U Ra - an ancient Slavic war cry, meaning proximity to the sun God Ra.
        Enrages that all the "official" historians believe that the introduction of words went only in one direction. It is to what extent you need not to love your people? hi
        1. baudolino
          baudolino 21 December 2017 07: 45 New
          15
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Are you sure it's not the other way around? After all, the word BOGATYR comes from two words - GOD and MOVEMENT. Bearing God.

          And why is the story from Samsonov better than philology from Zadornov?))
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 07: 46 New
            11
            Quote: baudolino
            And why is the story from Samsonov better than philology from Zadornov?))

            And what is NOT RIGHT Zadornov? wink Or do you think that our ancestors went to death with a Mongol call?
        2. Serg65
          Serg65 21 December 2017 08: 36 New
          13
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          U Ra - an ancient Slavic war cry, meaning proximity to the sun God Ra.

          Well maybe God Ra, God Ra ??? Ahh, yes, yes, yes, Ukrainians, the pyramids, Ra .... for sure !!!!!!!
          The god of the sun among the Slavs Khors!
          Moreover, the Turkic words Urge i.e. beat, Uraksha, Urakh means forward!
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          It is to what extent you need not to love your people?

          laughing Well, yes, much more interesting is the legend about the diggers of the seas!
          My dear Ingvar, let’s say Catherine rewrote the history of Russia and inscribed the myth of the “Yoke”, then what should I say, what happened from the middle of the 13th century to “Standing on the Ugra” ??? What was it?
          1. Evgeniy667b
            Evgeniy667b 21 December 2017 11: 57 New
            +4
            And why do you think Mongolian words are primary, most likely secondary!
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 33 New
            +3
            Quote: Serg65
            The god of the sun among the Slavs Khors!

            The island of Khortitsa on the Dnieper is fundamentally the name of God Horse.
            And my dear Mongolophile - what does the historical fact of standing in the Ugra have to do with it? belay
            PS WHAT'S NOT THE LAW OF ZADADNO ?????
            1. Cxnumx
              Cxnumx 22 December 2017 05: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              P.S. WHAT'S NOT THE LAW OF ZADADNO ?????

              in that he parses Slavic and Old Russian words in terms of modern language. video in the topic:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIbCXyfS5PE
              in terms of impartiality: I can largely disagree with Zhukov, BUT! he is real historian!. but not novelist! Zadornov or mathematician! Fomenko.
              1. Seal
                Seal 25 December 2017 08: 52 New
                +3
                Who real historians ?
                Modern chronology was created by:
                1) Denis Peto (Petavius).
                2) Scaliger
                3) Isaac Cazobon
                4) Set of Calvisions

                Which of them was a historian?
                Or maybe historians were Gisel, Lomonosov, Tatishchev or Karamzin?

                None of the founders of the now accepted chronology and the official version of history had a historical education.
                And this in my opinion does not bother you at all.

                In the order of educational program. Scaliger and Casabon were philologists, Calvisius a musician, and Petavius ​​a theologian.
            2. Serg65
              Serg65 22 December 2017 06: 52 New
              +5
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              my dear mongolofil

              laughing You will be surprised, but I'm Russophile to the bone! And at the same time I really do not like it when they try to rewrite the history of my Motherland and my people for the sake of the new situation!
        3. forty-eighth
          forty-eighth 21 December 2017 09: 33 New
          10
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          U Ra - an ancient Slavic war cry, meaning proximity to the sun God Ra.

          Voooooooooooot! Finally, revelation came upon me. These ancient Uruso-Mughal arias gave rise to human civilization in North Africa, built pyramids and worshiped the god Ra. Everything fell into place laughing
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 54 New
            +2
            Quote: forty-eighth
            Finally, revelation came upon me. These ancient Uruso-Mughal arias gave rise to human civilization in North Africa,

            No, your ancestors climbed trees, and delved into ........ Where you continue to dig. To each his own.wink
          2. KaPToC
            KaPToC 21 December 2017 22: 31 New
            +3
            Quote: forty-eighth
            These ancient Uruso-Mughal arias gave rise to human civilization in North Africa

            There is another, more believable version of the origin of man that has nothing to do with Africa.
        4. Dimmih
          Dimmih 21 December 2017 12: 37 New
          +4
          Can you tell me in which Slavic tribe the Egyptian god Amon Ra was worshiped? Where can I read about this?)))
        5. Hantengri
          Hantengri 21 December 2017 19: 35 New
          +7
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          After all, the word BOGATYR comes from two words - GOD and MOVEMENT. Bearing God.

          Inspired by:
          Natasha Rostova: "They stole - it means they stole it from the Tiber."
          Lieutenant Rzhevsky: "Excuse me, Natasha, but didn’t this happen in Pisa, with Caesar?" laughing
          1. Dzungar
            Dzungar 21 December 2017 21: 17 New
            +2
            Gyyyyy ...! Rzhu .....!
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 21 December 2017 21: 41 New
            +3
            Quote: HanTengri
            Inspired by:
            Natasha Rostova: "They stole - it means they stole it from the Tiber."

            I will send you to the catechism. The principle of vulgarization of the arguments of the interlocutor is just from there.
            Shalom, the Orthodox! wink
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri 21 December 2017 22: 53 New
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              I will send you to the catechism.

              Let me, in gratitude, also send you somewhere: https://elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_bibliote
              ka / 430720 / O_professionalnoy_i_lyubitelskoy_lingvi
              stike

              Hopefully feel better.
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 21 December 2017 23: 16 New
                +3
                Quote: HanTengri
                Hopefully feel better

                Well ... they insulted the aria ... and he tried so hard so hard ... now he’s either gone to the Tiber ... or to. Where the lieutenant sends everyone ... laughing
                1. Hantengri
                  Hantengri 22 December 2017 00: 19 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  now he’s either gone to the Tiber ... or to .nu where the lieutenant sends everyone there ...

                  Well then, am I a monster or something ?! I, only, sent him to academician A. Zalinyak, to understand "Professional and amateur linguistics." lol
            2. Serg65
              Serg65 22 December 2017 06: 59 New
              +4
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              The principle of vulgarization of the arguments of the interlocutor

              what
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              your ancestors climbed trees, and delved into ......

              Ingvar, you probably look at yourself in the mirror every morning and you can’t get enough of it?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 22 December 2017 08: 03 New
                +1
                Quote: Serg65
                Ingvar, you probably look at yourself in the mirror every morning and you can’t get enough

                Are you spying on me from the other side of the mirror? am
        6. Anasti
          Anasti 26 December 2017 23: 51 New
          +1
          God-bug can be translated as power-luck, later importance, atta - create-do, ar - man. This is a common Aryan, later divided into languages. Bagatar, a man-aryan having-able. In different dialects, rich man, bagaturia, derivatives of bator, batyr.
          Wealthy because of wealth. A-vocalization was pursued by Yoke.
          Hurray - Turkic cry, Russians spoke arra or harra. Igo continues.
      2. Alone
        Alone 21 December 2017 09: 56 New
        +6
        In principle, you are right. There are many words. And the Slovenians went to the enemies with a Mongol cry, and there are no borrowing from other languages ​​at all. And before the adoption of Orthodoxy, they only climbed pine trees, and "letters" were brought to us by Cyril and Mythodius, before that letters were written without knowing quite ...
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 21 December 2017 10: 23 New
          +9
          Quote: Alone
          In principle, you are right. There are many words

          Man, they come up with a new story and rewrite the old exclusively young nations, which in fact have no history! History of Russia totals Millennium!!!! Therefore, if you want to bring your Wishlist to life, then we need iron arguments, and not exhaustion from the finger!
          1. novel66
            novel66 21 December 2017 11: 58 New
            +7
            and you, by chance, are not a descendant of the Mongols, are you really worried about them? tongue or like Shevchuk -: I’m a Tatar in person, but with the surname Khokhlyatskaya "? tongue tongue laughing
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 21 December 2017 12: 03 New
              +9
              Quote: novel xnumx
              and you, by chance, are not a descendant of the Mongols, are you really worried about them?

              Yes, no Roma, I am a descendant of the hodgepodge Russian and you know .... proud of it tongue
              I just don’t like it when they want to give out their fantasies as truth wink
              1. novel66
                novel66 21 December 2017 12: 06 New
                +7
                Mongol-Tatars = Finno-Jews = aglo-Zulus .. etc.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 21 December 2017 12: 08 New
                  +8
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  Mongol-Tatars = Finno-Jews = aglo-Zulus .. etc.

                  recourse No, all the same 150 - this is normal, no longer worth it! stop
                  1. novel66
                    novel66 21 December 2017 12: 10 New
                    +6
                    little that harm, so also greedy! tongue
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          2. Anasti
            Anasti 26 December 2017 23: 53 New
            +1
            The history of the people, not Russia. Borders and name are recent.
      3. AllXVahhaB
        AllXVahhaB 22 December 2017 03: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: Serg65
        Sword from Mongolian Mes

        And why not from the Gothic mekeis?
        1. novel66
          novel66 22 December 2017 10: 00 New
          +6
          I’m embarrassed to ask, what was the name of the sword before the Mongol-Tatars? poker chtoli?
    5. anderson
      anderson 21 December 2017 09: 48 New
      +5
      Please provide sources of your pearls. Especially about the direction of the loopholes in the wall ..
      1. Alone
        Alone 21 December 2017 10: 22 New
        +6
        Quote: anderson
        Please provide sources of your pearls. Especially about the direction of the loopholes in the wall ..

        Look at photos of some sections of the Chinese Wall. If you are too lazy, I don’t work at the information office.
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 21 December 2017 11: 48 New
          +3
          And in the photographs there are no signs East-West and North-South. No! So wherever they look, they look where they should. Who needs - that's the question!
          1. Net
            Net 22 December 2017 18: 26 New
            +2
            There is a pointer - the sun and the shadow of the towers. Hence the direction of the loopholes in them - to the South, protection from the Chinese
    6. Alone
      Alone 21 December 2017 09: 50 New
      +6
      Oh yes, dear colleagues, I was wrong. We have more than enough Mongolian words. And we don’t have any words from Latin, German, Greek, etc. I’m silent about names ... Ivan, Marya, etc. .d. purely "Russian" names. In general, we were all captured. And all for hundreds of years. And look at the last in the mirror, all truly Mongols !!! Or, when capturing Russian cities, according to official history, the Mongols did not touch Russian women, due to their tolerance ?
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 21 December 2017 18: 11 New
        +1
        Is the city of Kasimov considered? This is not to go very far.
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 21 December 2017 21: 30 New
        +1
        And you do not take into account the reverse process of the 16-19 centuries, when there was an expansion of Slavic genes into the former territory of the Golden Horde?
      3. Anasti
        Anasti 26 December 2017 23: 59 New
        +1
        The confrontation of the A-beginning and I-beginning, An-In, after the Negro-Lunits. began to spread predation. On the territory of the North was Peace and the principles of enlightenment to the Jewish Iga.
        Southerners' rats will devour the majority, do not count on "your own", 144 thousand will remain.
    7. 77_78
      77_78 21 December 2017 11: 12 New
      +5
      the time of the beginning of the construction of the wall falls on the time of fragmentation in China (the time of the warring kingdoms), similar to ours, the mass of the principalities are fighting each other, building defenses. Only since the unification of the country under the leadership of Qin Shi Huangdi in the middle of the 3rd century BC order is being put in place, the centralized construction of defensive structures called the Great Wall of China includes fragments of structures erected earlier. This is how the issue with loopholes is simply solved. You should not multiply things unnecessarily ...
      1. Net
        Net 22 December 2017 18: 36 New
        +2
        Do not write Chinese nonsense about the wall!
        According to the official version, it was built by Qin Shi-huangdi, the founder of the Qin empire, which existed only 13 years (!) (221-207 BC) [Great Soviet Encyclopedia. M .: Soviet Encyclopedia, T. 12. P. 208.]. The wall extends 1000 kilometers north of the empire’s border, along the territory of several 6000 kilometers long hostile to the Chinese. Feeling delusional allegations, the official version has changed - now tourists on the wall are convinced that the Chinese built it, supposedly to protect it from Genghis Khan. Between the Chinese microscopic (in those days) state of South Sun and the Mongols was the Golden Empire of bugs (chjurjen, nyurgen). And Genghis Khan defeated this empire only in 1211. Recall that the great “Chinese” wall is located on the territory of the Golden Empire a thousand (!) Kilometers north of the border of the Chinese state. The empire revived and only in 1234 and 1290-1310 did the Chinese manage to finish off the weakened buzz empire. And then totally destroy the tribe of bugs (or expel), like other peoples occupied by them (Khitan, Uighurs, Dzhungars - Kalmyks, etc.).
  7. 27091965
    27091965 21 December 2017 06: 36 New
    12
    However, the empire of Genghis Khan did not die. Northern civilization, as it was more than once in the past, took a new form. The control center shifted from the Horde to Moscow. There was a merger of European and Scythian-Siberian Rus. This made Russia a continental empire, from ocean to ocean. And Russia again challenged the masters of the West. The Big Game continues.


    "Your works are wonderful, Lord."
  8. parma
    parma 21 December 2017 06: 43 New
    25
    uh ... the author had the pick-up thing ... I want to repeat the proposal for the millionth time, Dear Administration, add the section "The Most Unbelievable Theories" or something like where anyone would write an alternative story and their speculation ..
    Regarding the article, evidence can be found, evidence, arguments other than "the Mongoloids are too backward for such a campaign." This is at least racism. Among the examples cited is the campaign of Alexander the Great (Great) and the supposedly demographic indicators of Macedonia ... According to historians, the most optimistic figure with which Alexander went to Persia is 40000 people (and some historians believe that it is even smaller), and this is a collection of troops from ALL Greece , not only from Macedonia! And in the best cases, 20-25 thousand of them were phalangists (Hoplites, whatever you want). So talking about the huge demographic potential of Macedonia to conquest is at least silly! Everything hinders a bad dancer ... There are examples in history when a handful of people, well-trained, harmonious and motivated, achieved the impossible according to your criteria .. Take Caesar’s Egyptian campaign, he had less legion at the beginning of the siege!
    In general, since there is no (for now I hope) section for an alternative and other theories, write then at the beginning of the article or in the title that it is a theory, an alternative story or something else, because people should know their heroes))
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 21 December 2017 07: 20 New
      16
      Quote: parma
      uh ... the author had the picky thing ... I want to repeat the proposal for the millionth time, Dear Administration, add the section "The most incredible theories"

      I agree!! It is especially "killing" that the articles of the science fiction writer Samsonov go out under the heading "History". Maybe George Martin’s laurels do not give him peace, who wrote Games of Thrones? laughing
      1. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 21 December 2017 10: 19 New
        16
        This is another matter. Somewhere at the turn of the 80's - 90's (I don't remember exactly) the President of the Russian Academy of Sciences gave an interesting interview. The journalist asked him if the expanding academies (military sciences, information sciences, cosmography, etc., which are public organizations by status) are annoying him. The President of the Russian Academy of Sciences replied that he was glad of this, since before the RAS, not quite normal people were getting out, and now they are swarming around in their own academies.
        So is Samsonov Alexander. In a decent scientific publication it will not be allowed to go further than the threshold, and there is so much scope for creativity and publications in VO. Let it publish and not interfere with smart people, but we have the opportunity to laugh.
        When the kids have worms, they scratch their ass for pleasure. So Alexander Samsonov - combed (though often something), published and enjoyed.
        1. Curious
          Curious 21 December 2017 12: 45 New
          +6
          Bravo, bravo, CSKA 2, thunderous applause, turning into a standing ovation !!!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 21 December 2017 15: 41 New
            +5
            The applause continues, delegates get up and applaud while standing!
          2. Dzungar
            Dzungar 21 December 2017 21: 22 New
            +1
            And you, I see, quickly spread to the side of the victors .... Under that other article they would not say that ....
      2. RomanK
        RomanK 29 October 2018 12: 51 New
        0
        Song of Ice and Fire
    2. just exp
      just exp 22 December 2017 00: 35 New
      +3
      why should I read articles and materials supporting your point of view?
      why did you write me and others like me into non-people who do not have any rights and are obliged to live on reservations and serve you, the race of gentlemen, white bone?
      why then yours (not personally, but those that support your point of view) should not be published in the same section? for me they are no less absurd than mine for you, only I think your mistakes are dangerous as well, because they tear us from our roots and give us into the hands of collective evil. I will give Ukraine as an example. she, too, began to consider herself part of the Western world, and not some kind of barbaric eastern civilization of Moksha and Finno-Ugric peoples.
  9. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 21 December 2017 06: 46 New
    16
    "False Fku" should be written like this - "False Vku"! (at 6.47 Minsk)
    Samsonov’s chic plus for not being afraid to express his opinion! hi
    Recently, people have generally forgotten how to think, analyze, draw conclusions, and look for causal relationships to understand an event. yes
    Even the formulation of simple logical questions makes one doubt some historical events (unless of course you think, and not take on faith). historians immediately begin “we know better”, “we think that people were like that then”, “they did it voluntarily”, etc.
    But to question or admit other conclusions regarding the same "Mongol-Tatar yoke" the gut is thin! It is better to continue to come up with the works of whole adherents of this science how and why the whole nation, for thousands of kilometers, went to conquer unknown lands, so that later it would disappear again and not even leave genotypes (!!!! wassat ) I constantly laugh until I drop when I remember that "they were strictly forbidden to commit adultery because of the purity of blood" fool AHA laughing laughing
    The Germans also considered themselves a purebred Aryan race, but how many fruits of their labor remained after 3 years of occupation, not to mention the “yoke” for 300 years!
    Personally, my opinion is that I do not believe in this nonsense about the "yoke" as well as about the flights of amers to the moon. There are still brains to think about.
    I repeat - my personal opinion hi
    1. Alexey Antonov
      Alexey Antonov 21 December 2017 06: 54 New
      12
      And do not believe that the Earth is round, the Sun rotates around the Earth, and in general, the Earth stands on three pillars!
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 21 December 2017 07: 02 New
        +9
        Do not exaggerate. Brains sometimes need to be strained wink hi
        1. novel66
          novel66 21 December 2017 12: 02 New
          +9
          some have pain from this! I will subscribe to your every word! deepest to you hi hi
    2. parma
      parma 21 December 2017 07: 02 New
      +9
      It depends on what you mean by “Yoke” ... If the enslavement of the Russian people (and in our tales / epics / even modern cartoons and films is positioned this way) then yes, it didn’t, but if it’s quite feudal as part of the feudal state!
      As for the flights to the Moon, the Soviet government recognized the fact of the flight, and I think if it had the facts of forgery, it would certainly have stated this, what an informational and propaganda bomb! If you don’t believe because of the “wavering” flag, then keep in mind that there is no atmosphere on the moon and therefore the vibra