Military Review

Kalashnikov Concern: SK-16 self-loading carbine project

111
The emergence of new samples of small weapons domestic development has always attracted the attention of specialists and the general public. Of particular interest is the high-precision systems that can be used by snipers of the armed forces and security forces. Not so long ago it became known about the development of a new project of such weapons. Concern "Kalashnikov" is developing a promising self-loading carbine of the original design, which received the designation SK-16.


According to available data, for the first time, the general public was able to see a sample of promising weapons in photo reports devoted to the visit of the head of Rostec, Sergei Chemezov, to Izhevsk arms-making enterprise. In late April, the Kalashnikov concern put into operation a number of modernized production facilities. During the celebrations related to these events, a number of important announcements were made. In addition, high-ranking officials who visited the weapons factory were shown some new developments.

Among the new models shown to the guests of the concern was a kind of sniper rifle of a new type. Any information about this sample was not published, because of what interested could only build their assumptions. Later the situation changed. In the domestic media there was information about the name of the new sample, the progress of the project and its main features that distinguish the rifle from other existing systems.


General view of the carbine SK-16. Photo All4shooters.com


Details on the perspective rifle were published in the June issue of Popular Mechanics magazine in the article “What will replace the SVD”. The journalist of the publication spoke with one of the authors of the promising project, who spoke about the new rifle and revealed some interesting features of the project. Soon, information about the new rifle went to other media, attracting the attention of readers. The emergence of new domestic models of high-precision small arms is not a frequent phenomenon, which led to an increased interest on the part of specialists and the public.

A new sample of the self-loading carbine received the designation CK-16. The project is developed by the leading designer of the Kalashnikov concern, Demian Belyakov and Yevgeny Yerofeyev. D. Belyakov is known to shooters for his previous developments in the field of pneumatic sports systems. His colleague relatively recently began working in the design office, but he had already managed to get the necessary experience and take part in the creation of new designs. In particular, he participated in the development of a modification of the rifled Saiga carbine with balanced automation.

In the new project SC-16, a number of original ideas are used, which have not yet become widely spread in Russian small arms systems. Due to the non-standard approach to one or another aspect of the weapon, it is planned to increase the usability and basic characteristics of the fire. All this led to the formation of an unusual appearance for the Russian armament, as well as a nonstandard architecture of internal units. The use of a large number of innovations may be associated with certain difficulties, however, the successful solution of all the existing problems will ensure a certain superiority of the new carbine over existing analogues.

There is reason to believe that recently the project SC-16 has advanced, and also received some innovations. This may explain the fact that the sample of the carbine shown in April of this year has noticeable differences from the product shown in the article "Popular Mechanics". In particular, there are significant differences in the finish and composition of additional equipment. Also samples differ in a design of a trunk and the gas engine. Probably, such changes were associated with the successful solution of existing problems. In addition, there may be other differences that are not so noticeable during an external examination.

In its current form, the SK-16 carbine is a system that looks similar to some other domestic and foreign developments. The weapon received a relatively long rifled barrel caliber 7,62 mm, covered with a polygonal metal forearm with perforation. There is a rectangular receiver, containing the main units, as well as a set of other components. In the assembled and combat-ready form, the product is very similar to other domestic developments, but a more detailed study demonstrates significant differences.

Kalashnikov Concern: SK-16 self-loading carbine project
The cover of the magazine "Popular Mechanics" with the prototype of SC-16


The authors of the new project decided to abandon the traditional for domestic small arms design of the receiver. This unit is now divided into two parts, like the details of some foreign developments. The upper “receiver” accommodates fasteners and guides for the barrel group and the bolt, while the lower one contains the details of the firing mechanism, the receiving shaft of the magazine, etc. This design of the box made it possible to solve some problems, in particular, to use the bar to install sighting equipment, protected from possible vibrations.

The SK-16 self-loading karabiner should use automatics based on removal of powder gases. Such systems have the widest distribution, but the new project proposes to use not the most massive version of such automation. The early prototype of the carbine was equipped with a gas outlet unit placed on the upper middle part of the barrel. Updated weapons should use a different gas removal system.

Automation with exhaust gases through the hole in the barrel has a characteristic drawback in the form of parasitic oscillations of the barrel and the whole structure. The mechanisms of the rifle, interacting with gases, begin to move before the bullet leaves the barrel, which can adversely affect the accuracy and accuracy of fire. Carbine SK-16 should use a different version of the exhaust gases, eliminating such problems.

The new project proposes to use the removal of gases for the operation of automation with the help of a special modular device. Such a unit is located on the muzzle of the barrel, which ensures the correct operation of the mechanisms without problems with excessive vibrations of the barrel during the passage of a bullet through it. With all its advantages, this version of the vapor compartment has some problems, first of all, excessive complexity in comparison with traditional structures. In addition, the experience of previous weapons projects with such systems developed abroad, indicates their low reliability. Nevertheless, the SK-16 carbine should be equipped with the original and unusual gas supply system to the piston.

Another new idea, which has not yet received wide distribution, but implemented in the framework of the SK-16 project, concerns the layout of the main units and the principles of their operation, designed to reduce the recoil momentum. The barrel and bolt group are movable. When fired, under the effect of recoil, they must roll back. Due to this, the weapon gets a prolonged recoil impulse, which should positively affect its stability during firing and, as a result, on the accuracy of the fire.

It is also reported that instead of the traditional for small arms springs in the new project, a hydraulic shock absorber of the original design is used, the task of which is soft braking of the so-called. firing unit in the back of its trajectory. It is expected that this innovation also has a beneficial effect on the characteristics of the weapon.


Early prototype carbine. Photo by Thefirearmblog.com


In the design of the bolt section of the carbine used several new ideas. Thus, the reloading handle does not have a permanent rigid connection with the slide frame. During firing, it remains stationary, but if necessary it can interact with the internal aggregates of the weapon and carry out the required actions. The shutter of the new design received the original system of extraction of spent cartridges with the possibility of choosing the direction of their release. With the help of the appropriate governing body, the shooter can switch the kick to the left or right window of the receiver.

When developing a new self-loading carbine, it was decided to abandon the use of domestic cartridges. The new weapon type SK-16 in the basic version uses rifle cartridge 7,62х51 mm NATO. This ammunition is distinguished by the absence of a protruding flange on the sleeve, which, to a certain extent, simplifies its use in automatic weapons. According to its main characteristics, the cartridge corresponds to the existing requirements.

It is alleged that the cartridge 7,62х51 mm may not be the only ammunition that can be used promising carbine. The design of this weapon is based on the principle of modularity, which in the future will allow to change the appearance and indicators of weapons in a fairly broad framework. Thus, the project provides for the possibility of replacing the barrel and other parts in the workshop, after which the carbine can use other types of ammunition.

Another characteristic feature of the modular design are Picatinny rail, designed for the installation of additional equipment. One of these slats is rigidly fastened to the upper part of the receiver and is intended for mounting the sight. Additional mounting devices are available on the forearm. Also, as shown by the prototypes of the new weapons, the use of buttstocks and other “body kit” of various models is possible.

Unfortunately, the main characteristics of the new weapons are not reported. In addition, the most interesting information about the project regarding the accuracy of the fire should not be disclosed. The main innovations of the project are associated with increased accuracy, and therefore these characteristics are of particular interest. However, specific indicators are still unknown, which may be a reason for disputes.

According to reports of the domestic press, the promising self-loading carbine SK-16, which is currently being developed, may in the future become a contender for the “title” of a new sniper rifle for the Russian army. In this case, this weapon may be the successor of the Dragunov sniper rifle in service. Nevertheless, as follows from the available data, the promising project is still at one of the initial stages and, as a result, it cannot yet count on a great future.


General view and incomplete disassembly of the product. Photo All4shooters.com


It should be noted that the project SC-16 uses a lot of original ideas, which for one reason or another have not yet received wide distribution in the field of small arms, but are of great interest to both designers and shooters. For example, the original automation system with a gas outlet on the muzzle device and a monitor assembly can significantly improve the accuracy of shooting, and the modularity will provide the maximum adaptation of the rifle to the requirements of the shooter.

However, all these advantages can be associated with serious disadvantages. As you know, the application of new ideas and solutions is always associated with various difficulties, which can lead to a negative impact on the fate of projects. Even the available data on the SK-16 carbine suggests that it has an overly complex structure that may not suit potential customers. A lot of innovations can lead to the manifestation of an appropriate number of “childhood diseases” and to other negative consequences.

It has already been mentioned that the monitor assembly of the firing unit and the muzzle vent could not be widely spread due to the complexity and insufficiently high reliability of operation. In this case, the promising project of the Kalashnikov concern faces at least a double risk. Other bold innovations are also able to hit on the indicators of new weapons and close the road to practical use.

The risks associated with the massive use of innovations can have a negative impact on the future of the promising model. Nevertheless, even in this case, the project SC-16 is of great interest, and also has a certain value for the development of small arms. In case of successful solution of all the tasks, the design team will be able to create a promising model that can interest the military. Failure to complete the work, in turn, will lead to obtaining the most important experience, as well as to working out a number of original and interesting ideas.

Work on new weapons continues. To date, several prototypes have been created, differing in various design features. Early products have already been demonstrated to industry leaders and used in testing. The most recent photos of the SK-16 carbine depict a different product with a modified design, different packaging and a different finish. A newer model differs in the number of "tactical" equipment and looks more like a product suitable for deliveries to the troops.

The exact prospects of the SK-16 self-loading carbine developed by the Kalashnikov concern have not yet been determined. The project is at rather early stages, due to which it needs further development, inspections, revisions, etc. It will take at least several years to complete all these works. Only after all the necessary work is completed will it be possible to talk about the real prospects of the carbine. In the meantime, it is one of the most interesting domestic developments of recent times. New reports on these weapons will again attract the attention of specialists and the general public.


On the materials of the sites:
http://popmech.ru/
https://all4shooters.com/
http://thefirearmblog.com/
http://myudm.ru/
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  1. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 6 July 2016 06: 38
    +27
    A bolt is a surgical scalpel and is needed to solve delicate issues. An army sniper needs a semiautomatic device, he needs to fill the enemy as much as possible even if wounded animals come for them and they cost more for the state (treatment, disability). And the fact that they started developing a new semiautomatic device is good. I do not write off the SVD and the achievements of this rifle will be incorporated into a new one.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 6 July 2016 07: 15
      +35
      Quote: Siberia 9444
      I do not write off the SVD and the achievements of this rifle will be incorporated into a new one.

      I have a feeling that they do not replace the SVD, but an analogue of the AR-15.
      1. alex_tec
        alex_tec 6 July 2016 08: 31
        +4
        Bullshit, a shoe rack for a shooting gallery and not a military weapon.
        1. garri73
          garri73 7 July 2016 13: 45
          +10
          Bullshit is such a brainless snotty dolbyotyatly, like you
        2. dima mzk
          dima mzk 24 September 2016 13: 26
          +2
          touched? shot? crawling in the field? bullshit is you and everything said and written!
      2. Siberia 9444
        Siberia 9444 6 July 2016 09: 22
        +6
        You understand, if it doesn't seem to mean the same hi
        1. alex_tec
          alex_tec 6 July 2016 09: 48
          +6
          And you ask yourself why AK and SVD are so popular in the world?
          Let me tell you, this is due to their simplicity, reliability and mass character. This device, with all its super-duper characteristics in greenhouse conditions, is unlikely to show reliability indicators comparable to SVD in real combat conditions.
          1. Hon
            Hon 6 July 2016 10: 12
            +13
            Quote: alex_tec
            And you ask yourself why AK and SVD are so popular in the world?
            Let me tell you, this is due to their simplicity, reliability and mass character. This device, with all its super-duper characteristics in greenhouse conditions, is unlikely to show reliability indicators comparable to SVD in real combat conditions.

            in general, SVD does not have such a distribution as AK, and is not particularly distinguished from its foreign counterparts, including in reliability, in terms of distribution it is quite comparable, for example, with PSG1 (MSG-90).
            1. alex_tec
              alex_tec 6 July 2016 11: 14
              +4
              No one claims that SVD is also common as AK. But quantitatively with the PKK, probably, it is quite comparable ...
              1. Hon
                Hon 6 July 2016 14: 18
                +3
                Do you think other rifles are less common? the popularity of the same AK is largely due to the fact that the Union at one time generously supplied many warring parties for thanks, as well as a large number of manufactures in different countries, the most common AK made in China and not Russian.
          2. Berkut24
            Berkut24 6 July 2016 14: 47
            +13
            Let us not forget that the Soviet shooter was created for use in the mass army of low-skilled collective farmers and workers. Actually, for this reason, these trunks came to taste and the Vietnamese and Arabs.
            However, times are changing. Our army is becoming far from being massive, and the proportion of professional contract servicemen in it is gradually increasing. Accordingly, we can afford a rifle that is more difficult to maintain (and more expensive), but more effective in battle. Even Vietnam has abandoned the AK and is switching to the Israeli Galil. This is despite the fact that "Galil" is a modified Kalash.
            Together with the army, the canons of combat use are also changing, the rules of the game on the battlefield are changing. And it changes the requirements for weapons and fighter.
          3. Blondy
            Blondy 7 July 2016 03: 53
            +18
            Firstly, the author is my personal plus - expecting a PR rehash from the “popmech” - turned out to be a normal independent analytical review that does not hide the fog of perspective. I don't care much about the early hype over the analogy with the aERka and the low reliability that is not comparable with the SVD. As the saying goes - "the devil is in the details." Naturally, one does not have to expect special popularity among the natives of the jungle and deserts from a modern device that requires normal maintenance. Here you can refer to the example of “Svetka” from the time of the Second World War: how much the guys from the plow from the Red Army wished for it to be capricious and unreliable, but the naval marines providing proper care - it’s “better not”.
            I have, my own, somewhat different from the male traditional orientation, a look at these things. In the picture, the SK 16 carbine looks light and lumpy - which is a definite plus (although the NF FAL in the picture also looks beautiful, but in real life it is unexpectedly one and a half times heavier than a Kalash). Regarding reliability, it will make sense after an “autopsy” from state tests. But now the "secrecy" of the main parameters of the product is alarming - and this is from the current Kalashnikov concern, which is characterized by aggressive public relations and advertising. In order to really claim to replace the SVD, the sniper SK 16, in addition to sufficient reliability, should demonstrate an MOA of at least less than unity, and an effective range of about 1000. And then unexpectedly silence, indicating some tension in this area.
            Well, the conclusion from the "female logic", we are dealing with the advance PR of the Kalashnikov concern of its product with an unclear perspective.
            1. tracer
              tracer 7 July 2016 04: 23
              +1
              I can’t imagine how you drive a car .......)))) How men go sadly probably ..)))
            2. Blondy
              Blondy 7 July 2016 05: 31
              +4
              For the sake of justice, I should also give an alternative conclusion about "secrecy": from the standpoint of normal and very superstitious techies, do not fucking talk in advance so as not to jinx it (although in the conditions of modern production it is not easy to defend such a position).
              1. Operator
                Operator 7 July 2016 12: 51
                +2
                Most likely, the designers have not yet decided which automation will be used in SK-16 and other models of small arms based on it.

                In the photo of the tests of the first variant of the carbine, the standard gas vent mechanism is visible, in the text description of the second variant of the carbine, an exotic method of gas extraction from the barrel cutter plus a retractable barrel-receiver-shutter assembly is stated.

                This is despite the fact that the photo of the second option shows an optical sight that is rigidly connected (as described) with the barrel - it’s not a bad thing, it can be seen that the eye sill hits the arrow along the arrow when the unit rolls back laughing

                In addition, it was not a separate carbine that was declared, but a whole shooting platform - which is good for a sniper rifle (gas extraction at the barrel cut and a fixed barrel); it makes no sense to replicate for a carbine and a machine gun (gas selection from the barrel channel and a movable barrel). At the same time, unification is still achieved if the barrel in a set with a gas outlet is replaced.

                So, details will probably follow after choosing the final technical solutions for the entire line of weapons on a unified platform.
            3. Amnestied
              Amnestied 7 July 2016 08: 23
              -1
              Quote: Blondy
              although the NF FAL in the picture also looks beautiful

              What is this unit? You mean FN, such experts, cook borsch better! laughing
              1. Blondy
                Blondy 15 July 2016 17: 17
                +5
                Yes, there are no problems with borscht, as well as with FN FAL, Catch a link, aggressive scrabble
                FN FAL
                From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                FN FAL
                The fn fal
                Type battle rifle
                Place of origin belgium
                Service history
                In service 1954 – present
                Used by 90+ countries (See Users)
                Wars See Conflicts
                Production history
                Designer Dieudonné Saive
                Ernest vervier
                Designed 1947–53
                Manufacturer
                Fabrique Nationale of Herstal
                IMBEL
                Produced 1953–1988
                Number built 2,000,000+ [1]
                Variants See Variants
                Specifications
                Weight
                FAL 50.00: 4.3 kg (9.48 lb)
                FAL 50.61: 3.90 kg (8.6 lb)
                FAL 50.63: 3.79 kg (8.4 lb)
                FAL 50.41: 5.95 kg (13.1 lb)
                Length
                FAL 50.00 (fixed stock): 1,090 mm (43 in)
                FAL 50.61 (stock extended): 1,095 mm (43.1 in)
                FAL 50.61 (stock folded): 845 mm (33.3 in)
                FAL 50.63 (stock extended): 998 mm (39.3 in)
                FAL 50.63 (stock folded): 748 mm (29.4 in)
                FAL 50.41 (fixed stock): 1,125 mm (44.3 in)
                Barrel length
                FAL 50.00: 533 mm (21.0 in)
                FAL 50.61: 533 mm (21.0 in)
                FAL 50.63: 436 mm (17.2 in)
                FAL 50.41: 533 mm (21.0 in)
                Cartridge 7.62 × 51mm NATO, .280 British [2]
                Action Gas-operated, tilting breechblock [2]
                Rate of fire 650–700 rounds / min
                Muzzle velocity
                FAL 50.00: 840 m / s (2,756 ft / s)
                FAL 50.61: 840 m / s (2,755.9 ft / s)
                FAL 50.63: 810 m / s (2,657.5 ft / s)
                FAL 50.41: 840 m / s (2,755.9 ft / s)
                Effective firing range 200–600 m sight adjustments
                Feed system 20- or 30-round detachable box magazine. 50-round drum magazines are also available. [3]
                Sights
                Aperture rear sight, post front sight; sight radius:

                FAL 50.00, FAL 50.41: 553 mm (21.8 in)
                FAL 50.61, FAL 50.63: 549 mm (21.6 in)
                The Fusil Automatique Léger ("Light Automatic Rifle") or FAL is a semi-automatic / selective fire battle rifle produced by the Belgian armaments manufacturer Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (FN). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL)
              2. alexej123
                alexej123 20 October 2016 12: 13
                0
                Yes, perhaps a simple typo, hurried. And you are a direct ANALYST in capital letters. Such a "capacious" conclusion was drawn from a common misprint.
            4. Chukcha
              Chukcha 6 October 2016 12: 20
              +1
              It is quite possible that "secrecy" is also a part of PR to attract the attention of foreign consumers. Moreover, the original cartridge is NATO.
          4. avdkrd
            avdkrd 7 July 2016 20: 44
            +3
            Quote: alex_tec
            This device, with all its super-duper characteristics in greenhouse conditions, is unlikely to show reliability indicators comparable to SVD in real combat conditions.

            SVD at the time of adoption was the same rather sophisticated weapon (in technical terms). Design thought does not stand still - new materials, new technical solutions. Judging weapons by the picture is not a reasonable approach. Knowing the domestic standards and requirements for weapons, I hope that Kalashnikov will create a decent example. Today it is useless to argue, as there is simply no information. The gas extraction scheme itself is no more complicated than the existing one. More expensive in view of the lack of an existing technological chain for mass production, but not more complicated.
      3. Hon
        Hon 6 July 2016 09: 56
        +1
        Quote: Vladimirets
        I have a feeling that they do not replace the SVD, but an analogue of the AR-15.

        in general, AR-10 (and not 15) as well as SR-25 (XM110) are analogs of SVD and perform similar tasks.
      4. Amnestied
        Amnestied 6 July 2016 12: 33
        +1
        Quote: Vladimirets
        I have a feeling that they do not replace the SVD, but an analogue of the AR-15.

        They feel the "argument" in a delicate place, nothing is known specifically about this weapon, and already some individuals are labeling it, some sort of squeal of an uncut piglet, why are you paying extra for tubs of dirt on everything Russian?
        As the "iron" Felix used to say, a person "... should have clean hands, a cold mind and a warm heart" - fig then someone will provoke you to something, as suckers will provoke.
        Duc, I'm interested in "looking", just purely from the point of view of statistics, how many of you are here such critics and hesitant today "will be revealed", not for the sake of show-off, for statistics.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 6 July 2016 14: 29
          +6
          Quote: Amnestied
          Feel the "argument" in a delicate place

          I have no doubt that you know this.
          Quote: Amnestied
          What do you pay for ears of mud for everything Russian?

          Are you adequate at all? Where did I pour dirt "on everything Russian"? request
          1. Amnestied
            Amnestied 6 July 2016 16: 35
            -7
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Are you adequate at all? Where did I pour dirt "on everything Russian"?

            I have a feeling that they do not replace the SVD, but an analogue of the AR-15.
            The argument, and the fact, and the question-for colopost. Not really, there is an analitega in United on all the manuals of the State Department of the Prince of this world, but there is no physical ANALYTICS ... spawn.
            Actually, it looks like this in the State Department training manual - the page of provocateurs. Because for gesheft, you need Big gevalt, and - how, well, here's how you physically make it TMB ... your keycode is the screen, and the mask is not from the word absolutely.
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Are you adequate at all? Where did I pour dirt "on everything Russian"?

            Bots Yasha Kedmi on a denazification march in ... the region of planetary Israel wink
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 6 July 2016 16: 43
              +6
              Quote: Amnestied
              Bots Yasha Kedmi on a denazification march in ... the region of planetary Israel

              Clear answer to this question
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Are you adequate at all?

              received. yes
    2. Juborg
      Juborg 6 July 2016 16: 43
      +4
      A new rifle is always good for a platoon or company unit, especially considering that its performance characteristics will be an order of magnitude higher than the old SVD, this will improve primarily the unit’s firepower and quality. But while there is no new rifle, the SVD will be used as they say before the holes. And to improve its work, it is necessary to provide the correct body kit, which will facilitate the rifle, make it smaller (folding or telescopic stock) and make it possible to install more modern sights. Good luck to our developers to move in both directions in both directions.
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith 20 October 2016 12: 46
        0
        Quote: juborg
        especially considering that its performance characteristics will be an order of magnitude higher than the old SVD

        An order of magnitude is ten times what can be improved ten times in SVD ?!
        Weight ? Accuracy? the size of the gun? What ?! wink
        Well, if, the accuracy was increased by 1.37 times, and it will be incredibly cool while keeping the rest! laughing
  2. mark1
    mark1 6 July 2016 06: 40
    +10
    The product is most likely for the foreign market. When the fire layout can be easier to use a short (long) stroke of the barrel without the removal of gases? Although ... the developer knows better.
    1. Izotovp
      Izotovp 6 July 2016 07: 49
      +1
      The gun carriage is most likely based on the .338 cartridge. Although if a new rifle is being developed, it would be immediately made under 300winmag. The difference is only in the chamber, and the superiority over 7,62 * 54/51 is palpable.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 6 July 2016 07: 50
        +1
        Quote: Izotovp
        would immediately do under 300winmag.

        For a battlefield rifle, such a cartridge is redundant.
        1. Izotovp
          Izotovp 6 July 2016 08: 03
          +3
          Maybe there can be ... but the bronics are getting stronger.
          No wonder they tried to replace 7,62 * 54 with 9,3 * 64. So there’s already a lack of a standard cartridge yet?
          1. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok 11 July 2016 15: 22
            0
            Quote: Izotovp
            No wonder they tried to replace 7,62 * 54 with 9,3 * 64.

            but at 6x49mm do you want? SVK for this cartridge was developed in the late 80s and passed military tests in Chechnya. It was not put into service "for difficult economic reasons" in the 90s. The rifle showed an advantage over the SVD at all firing distances (so at 900m as much as 4 times, and by 1,5 at 500m), a higher aiming range - more than 1000 meters. As well as greater bullet penetration.
            If we switch to a new caliber for the army, then it should have more advantages than just one lack of a flange.
        2. Siberia 9444
          Siberia 9444 6 July 2016 09: 25
          0
          Only add for semi-automatic.
        3. Mooh
          Mooh 6 July 2016 12: 06
          +3
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Quote: Izotovp
          would immediately do under 300winmag.

          For a battlefield rifle, such a cartridge is redundant.

          With such a cost and design complexity, the presented sample can be anything but a battlefield rifle.
        4. ARES623
          ARES623 7 July 2016 13: 36
          0
          Quote: Vladimirets
          For a battlefield rifle, such a cartridge is redundant.

          Excuse me, what battlefield were you on? If on Gorokhovetsky, then this is not an indicator. And if they tried to shoot a 3-ton "Bronco" from 100 meters (and combat transporters are not worse armored, although not tanks), then, probably, they would not give up the PTRD. IMHO
      2. mark1
        mark1 6 July 2016 10: 34
        +3
        Quote: Izotovp
        The gun carriage is most likely per cartridge .338.

        Carriage - to reduce the magnitude of the recoil momentum, especially when firing bursts, which is not very important for a self-loading carbine.
        Our ballistics cartridge is no worse than NATO (we will leave the quality of production outside the brackets), the problem is in the welt. The presence of a welt complicates the work of automation.
        1. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 6 July 2016 11: 38
          +5
          "The new weapon of the SK-16 type in the basic version uses a NATO 7,62x51 mm rifle cartridge"
          So I am perplexed, why not create just 7,62x54 on the basis of 7,62x54R, without welt? The problem is long overdue. It is clear that material costs, then, syo. For existing weapons, the bolt and breech of the barrel (PK, PKM, "Pecheneg", SVD) should be altered, as, for example, in the early 50s, the existing MG-42 was converted to NATO 7,62x51. And the advantages of weldless cartridges are already known. In further development of weapons for this cartridge, there will be only material "goodies" in comparison with developments under 7,62x54R, and less headache for gunsmith designers.
          1. Izotovp
            Izotovp 6 July 2016 12: 38
            +3
            As our designers say, for them the problems of welt no longer exist. Everything is constructively solved and worked out. Even more than that, I’ll say, switching to NATO cartridges will make it possible to reduce the cost of production by completely abandoning the Soviet line. Anyway, we are already releasing these cartridges and the transition will be a gradual replacement. Moreover, this transition is partially already there: pistol cartridge 9 * 19. Another thing is that our 9 * 21 cartridge is so superior that I won’t be surprised that it will become the main army.
            1. oking
              oking 7 July 2016 12: 53
              +2
              Quote: Izotovp
              Another thing is that our 9 * 21 cartridge is so superior that I won’t be surprised that it will become the main army.

              During the development period, the cartridge sleeve volume of 9x21 mm was optimal. Today, it is outdated and has become redundant. Its power for the army pistol is also excessive. And save on the old cheap gunpowder will not succeed, the chemical industry also does not stand still.
              1. Izotovp
                Izotovp 7 July 2016 15: 31
                -1
                At the current pace of development, there is no excess power. While bulletproof vests are developing at a faster pace. And the quality of gunpowder in military cartridges, as far as I know, has not changed much. In commercial, yes. Even in the same calibers, but not those that are purchased for MO.
                1. oking
                  oking 11 July 2016 16: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Izotovp
                  At the current pace of development, there is no excess power.

                  As it happens. The human brush is also not iron. And giving it a load of more than 4,5 kgm / s is not very desirable.
                  Quote: Izotovp
                  And the quality of gunpowder in military cartridges, as far as I know, has not changed much.

                  It has not changed in old cartridges due to the need to adhere to the old standard. And in the new cartridges it is completely different. For example, the Russian cartridge for a 9x19 mm ПЯ gives out 573 J. It is quite at the Western level.
                  Quote: 4-th Paradise
                  It is marked 9x19 ++

                  Will you give a lecture on long-known topics?
                  Quote: 4-th Paradise
                  which we simply don’t know how to do

                  See a little higher about the Russian cartridge 9x19 mm.
                  Quote: 4-th Paradise
                  Domestic 9x21 in power does not exceed 9x19 ++

                  Even on ancient gunpowder exceeds. And especially on the recoil momentum.
                  But there’s no point in switching to ancient gunpowder; modern is only slightly more expensive. And the sleeve is shorter and cheaper. And as a result, a 9x19 mm cartridge is cheaper. A gun is lighter and more convenient.
              2. 4thParasinok
                4thParasinok 11 July 2016 15: 49
                -1
                Quote: oking
                During the development period, the cartridge sleeve volume of 9x21 mm was optimal. Today, it is outdated and has become redundant.
                your information is out of date. You know that the modern NATO cartridge differs from the 100x9 developed 19 years ago so much that they cannot be used in civilian weapons - they will explode. It is marked 9x19 ++. They use modern high-impulse propellants, which we simply cannot make. Domestic 9x21 power does not exceed 9x19 ++, it just has an armor-piercing bullet and this is all its blown advantage. "Our" economists simply calculated that buying a line for civilian 9x19 cartridges is cheaper than setting up a mass production of new specially designed cartridges (although in fact, just a stolen 9x21 IMI cartridge case is not produced anywhere other than Israel and Italy, and therefore has expensive equipment for production). The 9x19 cartridge has long not satisfied even the NATO military, and therefore a competition for a new cartridge was held back in the 90s. He won a 5,7 × 28 mm cartridge with a mass of 6 grams (9-19 only a standard bullet weighs 8 grams, I will not say anything about the rest), capable of penetrating an army armored vehicle of protection class 100 at 3m from an FN Five-seveN pistol. Their transition rested on money.
          2. oking
            oking 7 July 2016 12: 47
            +1
            Quote: Black Colonel
            as, for example, in the early 50s they reworked the existing MG-42s under NATO 7,62x51.

            You would know how much has been redone there. After all, the Nazi MG and the German post-war MG are weapons of even different classes.
            Quote: Black Colonel
            So I wonder why on the basis of 7,62x54R not just create 7,62x54, without a welt?

            What for? If there is about a similar cartridge of 7,62x51 mm NATO?
            Quote: Black Colonel
            It is clear that material costs, that-sho.

            In general, the problem was raised correctly. Today, only rotniks (platoon machine guns) and sniper rifles are fed with the 7,62x54 mm R cartridge with the L bullet. And that, and another is not so much. Therefore, the main cartridge can most likely be replaced.
            For export, this is good, again. Including and for exporting cartridges.
            1. ARES623
              ARES623 8 July 2016 06: 49
              +1
              Quote: oking
              Today, only rotniks (platoon machine guns) and sniper rifles are fed with the 7,62x54 mm R cartridge with the L bullet. And that, and another is not so much.

              I do not know what a "platoon" machine gun is, but ammunition eaters, such as paired PKT, standing on each armored object (of which we have tens of thousands), feed on this cartridge. And so far, nothing is offered to replace these machine guns. Take your time with the change, you may end up at an empty trough. (Thank God, the military-industrial complex does not feed on our ideas ... smile )
              1. oking
                oking 8 July 2016 09: 51
                0
                Quote: ARES623
                I do not know what a "platoon" machine gun is

                PC and PKM. Heavy handbrakes on a rifle cartridge with an "L" bullet. For some reason, such machine guns were previously called "company".
                Quote: ARES623
                such as paired FCT

                PCS and PCT are, in fact, insanity. Another perversion from the USSR, like machine tools, but on a cartridge with a bullet "L". Heavy legacy of the erroneous concept of a "single machine gun".
                Quote: ARES623
                And so far nothing has been offered to replace these machine guns.

                Initially, there should have been some suitable modification of the SGM everywhere. Those. a normal heavy machine gun on a cartridge with a bullet "D". And even now it is not too late to put such a machine gun there.
        2. 4thParasinok
          4thParasinok 14 August 2016 10: 34
          0
          Quote: mark1
          The presence of a welt complicates the work of automation.

          and what exactly? On machine guns, even aircraft, welt does not create any problems. The problem existed only with the store, but it was solved long ago, back in 1963 ...
  3. Tsoy
    Tsoy 6 July 2016 07: 05
    +4
    the concept is similar to m110, m14, and other semi-automatic devices.
    1. dima mzk
      dima mzk 6 July 2016 07: 33
      -1
      What kind of semi-atom is it? This is a self-loading carbine! on the m-14 similar in concept))) compared the stick with a new weapon. M-110 I do not argue, and it is unlikely that it is unreliable junk, we do it with overloads in the sand in the cold in the heat, in short this is ours
      1. oking
        oking 7 July 2016 12: 56
        +1
        Quote: dima mzk
        What kind of semi-atom is it? This is a self-loading carbine!

        This is actually one and the same thing.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 6 July 2016 07: 42
      +3
      Quote: Choi
      M14, and other semi-automatic machines.

      M14, actually, automatic.
      Quote: dima mzk
      What kind of semi-atom is it? This is a self-loading carbine!

      A self-loading carbine is not a semiautomatic device? belay Semi-automatic, in fact, is a self-loading weapon without the possibility of firing bursts. For example, MTs21-12 is also a semi-auto. yes And SCS too.
      1. Tsoy
        Tsoy 6 July 2016 07: 56
        +2
        Quote: Vladimirets
        M14, actually, automatic.


        That's just to get at least somewhere with automatic shooting ...

        I meant made on the basis of the m14 - Mk 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle and m39 EMR.


        Quote: dima mzk
        compared the stick with a new weapon


        Nose stick ...
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 6 July 2016 07: 59
          +2
          Quote: Choi
          That's just to get at least somewhere with automatic shooting ...

          This is the second question. smile
          1. Tsoy
            Tsoy 6 July 2016 08: 04
            0
            Quote: Vladimirets
            This is the second question.


            drinks
      2. oking
        oking 7 July 2016 13: 04
        +2
        Quote: Vladimirets
        M14, actually, automatic.

        Mostly self-charging, i.e. semiautomatic device. Although there are machines, but not much. At the same time, the main mode of their operation is still semi-automatic. Because they have poor heat dissipation and low combat rate of fire. Therefore, this weapon, formally being automatic, stands out in a separate category SFW (selective-fire weapon). Those. self-loading with automatic fire. If not for long. And mostly not far.
        1. 4thParasinok
          4thParasinok 11 July 2016 15: 56
          -2
          Quote: oking
          Mostly self-charging, i.e. semiautomatic device. Although there are machines, but not much. At the same time, the main mode of their operation is still semi-automatic.

          and you read army manuals on small arms? AK is also advised to shoot in single and sometimes short bursts. It turns out and AK is a semiautomatic device?

          There are specific weapons terms and you should not replace them only by the fact that you blurted out not just what it really is.
          1. oking
            oking 11 July 2016 17: 02
            +1
            Quote: 4-th Paradise
            C AK also advised to shoot in single and sometimes short bursts. It turns out and AK is a semiautomatic device?

            Look around here on the thread. Or in the neighboring ones. He wrote 100 times that AK is a weapon of the SFW (selective-fire weapon) category. Those. self-loading weapon with a choice of fire mode. At "submachine gun" ranges (about 100 m), this weapon acts as an automatic one. At ranges more than these, like a self-loading.
            Typical such weapons are ABC-36 and AVT-40. And the world is full of analogues.
            AK-74 is a slightly atypical weapon in this category. His automatic fire rate was reduced to weapons of the SMG category (80-100 shots per minute), instead of 40-60 rounds per minute characteristic of the weapons of this category (SFW). This is achieved by using a weakened rifle (later called intermediate) cartridge with lower heat dissipation.
            However, pies are never free. Instead, the AK-47 DEP (effective destruction range) was reduced from 400 to 300 m. As a result, this is not an army, but an assault (with a reduced DEP range) rifle. A very exotic weapon, completely unsuitable for mass armament of the army. In the world, the armies of normal states were not armed with such weapons anywhere. By the 70s of the last century, the Soviet Union also understood what was happening, after which the weapon on the 7,62x39 mm cartridge was expelled from the army with a kick.
            Actually, it would probably be more correct to consider the AK-47 an advanced submachine gun. But since these are not provided in the world, they are considered a variation of the SFW category weapons. But in my opinion something like "MP long arm" would be more correct. However, the name could have been anything.
            Quote: 4-th Paradise
            do not replace them only by the fact that you blurted out not just what it really is.

            I have no such habit.
            Quote: 4-th Paradise
            and at 6x49mm ... The rifle showed an advantage over the SVD at all firing distances (as much as 900 times 4 times, and 1,5 and 500m) higher range of targeted shooting - more than 1000 meters. As well as greater penetration of the bullet.

            Yes, it was a good rifle for the biathlon team. But the army rifle still has to be good, sorry, to kill. But with this, weapons in caliber 6 mm have huge problems.
            1. saruman
              saruman 20 October 2016 11: 47
              +1
              Once again a couch specialist in small arms oking has come, and is blowing up delusional theories for weapon classification and ballistics.
  4. Viktor fm
    Viktor fm 6 July 2016 07: 16
    +2
    In such articles, I primarily look at the availability of digital data. If there are none or very few, then I do not read such articles.
    1. inkass_98
      inkass_98 6 July 2016 08: 21
      +4
      Well done! The ABC book was also mastered in this way laughing ?
  5. bunta
    bunta 6 July 2016 08: 50
    +11
    A civilian sports and hunting carbine under an imported cartridge. What does SVD have to do with it?
    1. berezin1987
      berezin1987 6 July 2016 09: 31
      -1
      I think that it is created more for the military. They took an example from the Belgian SCAR rifle. There you can also change barrels and ammunition by replacing some parts of the weapon. The Belgians made a very good weapon, no one wrote bad reviews about it.
  6. erased
    erased 6 July 2016 08: 52
    +3
    Nothing can be said about weapons now, until they put him up for testing. But with the cartridge is unclear. Why did this problem suddenly arise to change the design of the cartridge case 7,62x54? To remove the flange is not as hard as creating a new model of a rifle. Why switch to someone else's standard, because this will entail a complete replacement of the industrial production of ammunition of this type?
    NATO has two main ammunition - 5,56x45 and 7,62x51. We have 5,45x39 and 7,62x54. Not counting 7,62x39 (until he was returned at all). This does not include different cartridges for sniper rifles.
    So why switch to someone else’s cartridge?
    But this is the main question, weapons are always made under ammunition, and not vice versa.
    1. berezin1987
      berezin1987 6 July 2016 09: 17
      +1
      It is necessary to develop a new rifle and machine gun cartridge or to adopt one of the western ones, for example .338LM. Bulletproof vests are becoming stronger every year and even today SVD is not capable of breaking through the armor-piercing cartridge of the 6B47 vest from a distance of 10 meters and beyond. And what will happen in 5-10 years? Bulletproof vests are becoming more common in the armies of different countries and will soon have to shoot in the head and on the limbs, because bullets of old weapons will not penetrate defense.
      1. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok 11 July 2016 16: 19
        0
        Quote: berezin1987
        We need to develop a new rifle and machine gun cartridge or to adopt one of the western ones,

        1. The cartridge was developed back in the late eighties - 6 * 49mm SVK sniperka passed the full cycle of military tests and fought in Chechnya, the machine gun and machine gun are only proving ground. The machine turned out to have a low resource barrel.
        2. Foreign cartridges cannot be taken, it is necessary to develop precisely taking into account their experience, but not brazenly copying, considering that we have different gunpowder and capsule, and not only by design (unfortunately the berdan is outdated) but also by the main indicators, including and because our capsule is tougher and requires a stronger blow, which is safer.

        Quote: erased
        Why did this problem suddenly arise to change the design of the cartridge case 7,62x54? To remove the flange is not as hard as creating a new model of a rifle.

        believe me, if you leave the barrel, you need to redo not only the store (the length of the cartridge increases) frame, shutter, etc. it’s easier to immediately make a new rifle under a newly remade cartridge than to remake already released ones. With a machine gun even harder.
    2. berezin1987
      berezin1987 6 July 2016 09: 27
      +2
      American ESAPI tile from armored ceramics, protection against an armor-piercing bullet of the NATO cartridge 7,62. A bullet is not capable of piercing it at point blank range.
      1. Operator
        Operator 6 July 2016 13: 43
        +1
        That's right - in connection with the adoption by the NATO armies of ceramic body armor of the ESAPI class, the 7,62-mm SK-16 self-loading carbine Demyan Berezin of the 2016 model of the year was developed not to replace the SVD rifle, but to completely replace all models of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, including unlimited revision of the AK-12.

        The presented SK-16 carbine is not a specialized model, but a universal weapon platform, on the basis of which, with the help of interchangeable kits, it will also be possible to assemble a sniper rifle with a barrel length of 30 inches and a light machine gun with a heavy barrel and tape power.

        In other words, the Kalashnikov concern plans to completely switch over to the production of the Berezin weapon platform, and the Russian cartridge factories - to the production of a new automatic, rifle and machine-gun cartridge 7,62x51 mm.

        In this case, the twelve million AK-47, AKM, AK-74, RPK, RPK-74, SVD, PC and PKM accumulated in army warehouses, as well as a billion plus cartridges 5,45x39, 7,62x39 and 7,62x54 mm will be sold to countries in Asia Africa and Latin America.

        PS The only thing that remains incomprehensible: on horseradish goat bayan - if there is a rollback of the trunk (in order to absorb the recoil, but this can also serve as a drive for automation), why then sculpt gas exhaust automation with an extremely unreliable gas exhaust circuit?
        Well, it doesn’t matter - you can always refuse this excess.
        1. erased
          erased 6 July 2016 13: 59
          0
          Do not share the source of information?
          1. Operator
            Operator 6 July 2016 15: 30
            +2
            These are the intentions of the Kalashnikov concern and the cartridge factories, which now do not have sales of their products - army warehouses are littered with machine guns, rifles, machine guns and cartridges for the entire TMV.

            By the way, most likely, the journalists mixed up the operating principle of the SK-16 self-loading carbine - it has a pure gas outlet (with gas taken from the barrel cut), while the barrel is stationary, and the hydraulic brake only absorbs the bolt when rolling back. IMHO, of course.

            Shooting in bursts from a carbine is not provided because of the high recoil force determined by the caliber, and that in turn is determined by the ability to break through a standard NATO ESAPI plate with a bullet of a 7,62x51 mm cartridge with a tungsten core.

            Although the same is achieved by a bullet of the domestic cartridge 6x49 mm, tested in the SVK rifle.

            But the concern "Kalashnikov", as before the company "ORSIS", see better bully
          2. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok 11 July 2016 16: 23
            0
            his head eats the source, everything else is from the evil one.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 10: 22
      +1
      Quote: erased
      Nothing can be said about weapons now, until they put him up for testing. But with the cartridge is unclear. Why did this problem suddenly arise to change the design of the cartridge case 7,62x54? To remove the flange is not as hard as creating a new model of a rifle. Why switch to someone else's standard, because this will entail a complete replacement of the industrial production of ammunition of this type?
      NATO has two main ammunition - 5,56x45 and 7,62x51. We have 5,45x39 and 7,62x54. Not counting 7,62x39 (until he was returned at all). This does not include different cartridges for sniper rifles.
      So why switch to someone else’s cartridge?
      But this is the main question, weapons are always made under ammunition, and not vice versa.

      remove the flange and add a groove, it turns out essentially a different cartridge. but why create new when everything is already created? Moreover, the NATO cartridge is widespread in the world, which ensures the export capabilities of weapons, and the ability to use trophy ammunition.
  7. berezin1987
    berezin1987 6 July 2016 09: 01
    +2
    The AR-15 type layout is good, because now there will be no problems with installing optics. As for modularity, I would argue. Modularity significantly increases the mass of weapons, because in the calculations, it is necessary to lay the strength of the nodes when firing the most powerful ammunition. An interchangeable barrel for a sniper rifle is useless; the separation of the cocking handle and the bolt frame will not allow forcing the bolt forward when dirty.
    1. Midshipman
      Midshipman 6 July 2016 10: 01
      +1
      The problem with installing optics is in my opinion the smallest problem. All our sights, which by the way have recently been not inferior to the western ones, are easily put on the side bar.
      1. RussKamikadZE
        RussKamikadZE 6 July 2016 11: 03
        +3
        In what place are they not inferior to the western ones? Do we have analogues of ACOG, AimPoint, EoTech?
        1. otto meer
          otto meer 6 July 2016 12: 26
          +1
          Quote: RussKamikadZE
          Do we have analogues of ACOG, AimPoint, EoTech?
          Yes, we have. JSC "VOMZ", JSC "Izhevsk Motor Plant" Axion Holding ". There are probably more.
          1. RussKamikadZE
            RussKamikadZE 6 July 2016 14: 04
            0
            And why then do our specialists prefer foreign sights?
        2. Midshipman
          Midshipman 10 July 2016 12: 16
          +1
          https://topwar.ru/97759-icnayper-test-rossiyskogo-umnogo-pricela.html
  8. Skubudu
    Skubudu 6 July 2016 09: 33
    +3
    Glory to the Almighty!
    Finally give way to the young!
    Finally doper!
    The creation of the Lover must be very responsible.
    The carabiner itself is for now ... The lover is, in my opinion, massive too much, but this is a prototype and will be finalized.
    The main thing is that they are going in the right direction.
    They would optionally start making an automatic machine on the same principle of Lover / Aper. And there you look and win the competition.
  9. sergo1914
    sergo1914 6 July 2016 09: 53
    +5
    Pancake! Well, I cannot perceive the phrase "self-loading carbine" without SIMONOV! Is it being treated?
  10. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 6 July 2016 10: 16
    +1
    On the FN SCAR, the zelo looks like a zoo.
  11. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 6 July 2016 12: 46
    +1
    Layout technology development, layout. With this, all projects begin.
    And since the NATO patron is laid, the "machine" is sharpened for the foreign money market.
    On the whole, it is competent: a concern with a big name issues a new "car" to the "mountain" and tries to promote it to the market. True, it’s as if Avtovaz (economy price segment) would try to play in the business class market (AUDI MERCEDES BMW).
    The credibility of expensive quality weapons has been earned for decades. Unfortunately, the Kalashnikov concern did not distinguish itself in the market for precision, high-quality weapons. Cheap and reliable - yes, but these are two different things.
    1. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 14: 20
      +3
      Quote: DimerVladimer
      Layout technology development, layout. With this, all projects begin.
      And since the NATO patron is laid, the "machine" is sharpened for the foreign money market.
      On the whole, it is competent: a concern with a big name issues a new "car" to the "mountain" and tries to promote it to the market. True, it’s as if Avtovaz (economy price segment) would try to play in the business class market (AUDI MERCEDES BMW).
      The credibility of expensive quality weapons has been earned for decades. Unfortunately, the Kalashnikov concern did not distinguish itself in the market for precision, high-quality weapons. Cheap and reliable - yes, but these are two different things.

      and the ORSIS T-5000 rifle is also chambered by NATO
  12. Forever so
    Forever so 6 July 2016 13: 05
    -2
    Let's hope that our designers will not change the basis of the Kalashnikov brand. Reliability, simplicity. Only here one thing I do not understand is again a sticking out store. is it really convenient for the shooter to put a screw shop in position ?? Judging by the proposed design, this is not even foreseen.
    1. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 14: 03
      +1
      Quote: Forever so
      is it really convenient for the shooter to put a screw shop in position ??

      the auger magazine is inconvenient to equip, in addition, there are times when the auger magazine spits out all the cartridges if dropped
      1. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok 14 August 2016 11: 04
        0
        Quote: Hon
        the auger magazine is inconvenient to equip, in addition, there are times when the auger magazine spits out all the cartridges if dropped

        and also the spring resource is small, quickly sags.
    2. oking
      oking 7 July 2016 13: 26
      -2
      Quote: Forever so
      Let's hope that our designers will not change the basis of the Kalashnikov brand

      Why? At its core the AK-47 is an overgrown submachine gun. His grandfather was designed and called that way, MP-43 (submachine gun model 1943). Solutions that are suitable for submachine guns (even overgrown ones) do not always fit a full-fledged army weapon. This is exactly what happened with the "legendary mechanism". How they did not twist it, how they did not stir it up, and for the mass arming of the army, they could not adapt it in full. The design does not allow.
      Quote: Forever so
      Reliability, simplicity.

      Far from outstanding reliability. And by no means outstanding simplicity.
  13. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 6 July 2016 14: 15
    +1
    Finally, the heavy barrel in the sniper system - less vibration and thermal warping.
    I hope there will be more than two locking stops - otherwise it will not be better than SVD.
    All that Western gunsmiths introduced, began to appear with us.
    1. alex-cn
      alex-cn 7 July 2016 13: 17
      0
      It seems to be in the SVD three combat stops on the shutter ...
      1. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok 14 August 2016 11: 11
        0
        Quote: alex-cn
        It seems to be in the SVD three combat stops on the shutter ..
        Well, a person does not know how SVD differs from Mosinki, please forgive him wink
  14. vkl.47
    vkl.47 6 July 2016 14: 39
    0
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Quote: Siberia 9444
    I do not write off the SVD and the achievements of this rifle will be incorporated into a new one.

    I have a feeling that they do not replace the SVD, but an analogue of the AR-15.

    Precisely. Explicitly gravitate to this model. Everything is very similar
  15. zenion
    zenion 6 July 2016 14: 48
    0
    It is good that there are many gaps. There you can hammer sand, gingerbread crumbs and other dirt. But it is easy to clean if the screwdriver is not lost. And if they move, then even better. Lost both and cleaning the barrel will be easy.
    1. Operator
      Operator 6 July 2016 14: 56
      +2
      Take the G3 as an example and shoot the infantry’s portable ammunition for an hour in automatic mode - you will immediately carry a screwdriver on your neck strap so you don’t lose it.

      ESAPI however laughing
      1. parkello
        parkello 5 August 2016 22: 52
        0
        and not just a screwdriver. also carry a magnet in your pocket .. laughing
  16. K-50
    K-50 6 July 2016 15: 08
    +2
    A cartridge of 7,62x51 mm may not be the only ammunition that a promising carbine can use.

    Is this in case of partisan actions behind the aggressor? belay laughing
    If this assortment of cartridges is not produced in Russia, then why focus specifically on the NATO cartridge? Can then arrange the production of cartridges of this size in the country? not for bucks to buy cartridges !!!! fool
    1. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 15: 51
      0
      Quote: K-50
      Is this in case of partisan actions behind the aggressor?
      If this assortment of cartridges is not produced in Russia, then why focus specifically on the NATO cartridge? Can then arrange the production of cartridges of this size in the country? not for bucks to buy cartridges !!!!

      a cartridge with a flange is worse for automation, in addition, in Russia not very high-quality cartridges for sniper weapons. Production of the NATO cartridge has been established, but for hunters
    2. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN 6 July 2016 18: 51
      +2
      Quote: K-50
      If this assortment of cartridges is not produced in Russia

      Produced. Klimovskiy PZ since 1976, Barnaul PZ since 1978. As well as JSC "Novosibirsk Plant of Low-Voltage Equipment".
      http://www.hunt-dogs.ru/patronyi-762/
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 7 July 2016 15: 52
        +1
        Quote: Barkhan
        PZ since 1976 Barnaul PZ since 1978 A

        Only now, byaka, those cartridges are not interchangeable with .308, a full domestic analogue of .308 appeared only in 1993 and, unlike previously produced domestic cartridges, received the index "M" - 7,62X51M, use .308 and 7,62X51M in domestic weapons released under the original domestic cartridge 7,62X51 (without the M index) is impossible.
  17. Div Divich
    Div Divich 6 July 2016 15: 56
    +4
    Hehe, the Kalashnikov Concern has untwisted, and does not know where to throw out its potential.
    Thousands can produce weapons, only there would be a technical task, what to produce ...

    I would like to wish the Kalashnikov Concern to develop new ammunition, then a new generation of weapons will appear. Assault rifles and rifles are launching tools for ammunition, that is, a cartridge-mounted design.
  18. rc56
    rc56 6 July 2016 17: 33
    0
    Quote: alex_tec
    But quantitatively with the PKK, probably, it is quite comparable ...

    To be precise, the SVD is exactly three times smaller than the PKK - in the motorized rifle platoon there are three RPK (one for each compartment) and only one SVD.
    1. oking
      oking 7 July 2016 13: 37
      +1
      Quote: rc56
      To be precise, the SVD is exactly three times less than the PKK

      Apparently I meant the PC. By the way, it is now being gradually replaced. And their cartridge (PC and SVD) is the same, besides the original, 7,62x54 mm with a bullet "L". So, now is the time to transfer the "rotnik" and the sniper rifle to a new cartridge.
  19. rc56
    rc56 6 July 2016 17: 41
    -1
    remove the flange and add a groove

    This problem was still solved by General Fedorov Vladimir Grigorievich.
    And he decided it simply by switching to a Japanese 6,5 mm cartridge ...

    Too much inconvenience for the automation of the flange (rim) of the sleeve!
    1. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 20: 34
      +1
      The patra designed by Fedorov was without a protruding rim, as were the arisaka cartridges. Alteration of already created samples was simple, since the cartridges were very close in size.
      1. mark1
        mark1 6 July 2016 21: 58
        0
        Quote: Hon
        The patra designed by Fedorov was without a protruding rim, as were the arisaka cartridges.

        The Arisaka cartridge had both a groove and a small flange, the main percentage of delays during shooting was just because of the cartridge and the unfinished store.
      2. oking
        oking 7 July 2016 13: 42
        +2
        Quote: Hon
        Alteration of already created samples was simple, since the cartridges were very close in size.

        Nobody remade anything. AF No. 1 used a cartridge on the Mauser’s cartridge with a step-bullet (it is often called the Fedorov cartridge). AF No. 2 used a standard Arisak rifle cartridge.
  20. rc56
    rc56 6 July 2016 17: 46
    +2
    Production of the NATO cartridge has been established, but for hunters

    Unfortunately, the most crap is on sale for hunters!
    What can not be said about the supply for the same 7Nh ...
    1. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 20: 35
      -1
      Just cheap, you can buy more expensive but high-quality imports, everyone can afford
  21. Maxim73
    Maxim73 6 July 2016 18: 15
    +2
    7,62 x 51? I’m embarrassed to ask, what will the NATO cartridge in the Russian army do? Or we thus prove the cyclical nature of history, drawing inspiration at the beginning of the twentieth century, when it just was not in service with the Russian army and navy ...
    1. Hon
      Hon 6 July 2016 20: 36
      -1
      It is likely that in sniper weapons we will move on to NATO cartridges
  22. Nikitos86
    Nikitos86 7 July 2016 02: 59
    0
    Is Kalash not a muzzle heat sink?
  23. Dinko
    Dinko 7 July 2016 11: 32
    +1
    A good competent article to the author! Respect! The design is really not simple and the modularity and the carriage greatly complicate the design, which is likely to negatively affect the weapon itself.
  24. Chever
    Chever 7 July 2016 15: 03
    -2
    Well, for a long time it was time to change the SVD to something new. Perhaps a civilian version of this weapon will appear. Good luck to the creators ...
  25. Massik
    Massik 7 July 2016 18: 21
    +2
    Judging by the cartridge, the fate of this kramultuk is exclusively a civilian market, there will still be variations on .223 or 7.62x39. Under more powerful cartridges, the design is already flimsy.
  26. Kozliu
    Kozliu 7 July 2016 22: 19
    0
    shutter from SVD
  27. Michael HORNET
    Michael HORNET 8 July 2016 13: 08
    -1
    If you switch to a new cartridge - then at 6,5 Grendel
    Penetration will increase significantly against 5.45, with an unprincipled difference of 7.62x54
    But this will leave the main cartridge in size and weight - intermediate and it will not be necessary to sew new equipment for the new magazine size
    1. oking
      oking 8 July 2016 13: 28
      0
      Quote: Michael HORNET
      If you switch to a new cartridge - then at 6,5 Grendel

      Alone are you smart in the middle of the rest of the stupid world? How many times can I write that the 6,5 mm caliber was stillborn for the army from the very beginning? And after 2 MB, not one of them, even the most backward, had such army weapons. He would not have been before 2MB. But rearmament, an expensive thing. Those that are worse, they did not meet the time.
      Quote: Michael HORNET
      Penetration significantly increase against 5.45,

      Who told you such nonsense?
      Quote: Michael HORNET
      But this will leave the main cartridge in size and weight - intermediate

      What is this "holy task"?
      Quote: Michael HORNET
      and there will be no need to sew new equipment for the new store size

      Vesomo, you will not say anything.
      I recommend to study the American weapons for special forces Barrett REC7 Gen II. And also to understand why it, and he has been quite a lot of years, is still not army.
  28. Crimson
    Crimson 11 July 2016 13: 32
    +1
    Let's sort it out in order:
    1 area of ​​use:
    The army of “star-striped mattress” has a global division of military personnel firing long-barreled weapons with multiple optics into two types:
    A) Sniper - a person working alone or as part of a sniper deuce, shooter + gunner / spotter. These people are usually engaged in the solution of independent tasks assigned to them and act separately. As a rule, this category of shooters is armed with rifles with a longitudinally sliding bolt with a lockable handle, in common people a “bolt” (this ensures the immobility of the shutter and the maximum gas pressure during firing), which allows reaching ultimate ranges of hitting the target, as well as firing accuracy. Such weapons require serious training and high skills from a person.
    B) Marxman - a full-time shooter of an army unit (say a platoon), acts with the group and in its interests. The main task is to shoot a little further than the machine gunner and the platoon shooter (suppressing machine-gun points, destroying enemy Marxmen, etc.). As a rule, these guys use semi-automatic rifles of small (not over heavy) weight. In fact, an ordinary platoon soldier shooting a little further and a little more accurately than the rest.

    2. Ballistics factors:

    A) The choice of cartridges and rifling of the barrel (twist) - these two factors are closely interrelated. But since information about this is not yet available, so far it is useless to theorize (although I assume that the twist will be 10 or 12, given that the caliber selected is 7.62x51 aka .308 Winchester). By the way, the weight of the bullet will also be quite important.
    By the way, in terms of “flatness”, the 7.62x54R is superior to 7.62x51 NATO (aka .308 Win), but at the same time, as far as I know, .308 flies more hefty.

    https://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2016/241/qxfh911.gif

    B) Trunk - What will be the trunk? Or rather, what will it be inside? Chromium? Or black (if we are doing everything new, not like our old)? Or maybe stainless steel ?!

    C) I did not quite understand the problem of the release of powder gases into the gas. a camera that is located in the middle of the trunk. Surely there is some kind of vibration, BUT, for example, on AR-15 layout rifles and having gas. piston / piston automation (like on AK), this does NOT prevent you from achieving accuracy of 1 corner minute per 100 meters. Then why is this a problem? Moreover, in the pictures the forearm is freely hung out and not attached to the barrel (as it should be, in high-precision rifles). How long should a gas piston be - a piston to push the bolt as far from the far edge of the barrel ?! IMHO this will create a much greater vibration than the first considered option for the placement of gas. cameras. Or will the system work without a piston / piston and the gases will fly directly into the box? Then we return to the same problem that the classic Eugene Stoner rifle had, namely excessively fast pollution, which leads to the cessation of the weapon.

    D) Hydraulic brake - how is it fundamentally better than a spring? In my opinion, a technical solution is difficult, and as you know, any complication leads to a decrease in reliability.

    In my purely personal opinion and based on the information presented in the article, everything looks like a “waffle wunder”, but BUT wait and see. You need to wait for detailed information about the product and its performance characteristics.
  29. parkello
    parkello 6 August 2016 00: 21
    +4
    in general, the persistence of the NATO 7,62 and the Russian are the same, but the accuracy of the NATO is better. and equipping the NATO liner is easier, since replacing the capsule on a Russian cartridge is more difficult. as for the twist, the question also depends on which bullets will be used, in the sense with which shell. and a chrome barrel reduces accuracy and flatness, which means it will most likely be black. but it seems to me that if they switch to the NATO cartridge, and this is a good cartridge, then why create a new carbine? Isn’t it easier to just redo the same SVD? or do SCS with a detachable magazine for 10 or 20 rounds of ammunition under a cartridge of 7,62 * 51 mm? the accuracy of the SVD in its old version of 320 mm twist is quite equal to 1 angular minute. and with a cartridge of 7,62 * 51 with his bullet it is quite possible to do this. SCS is also quite a good tool. my father had expeditionary. in Abkhazia in the mountains a goat was taken at 1000 and 1200 meters, and sometimes even more from the first shot, although German optics stood, captured and real snipers shot. My father’s employee, Uncle Vitalik Cherkashchenko, was a sniper in the war, he graduated from school for snipers. And this is with ordinary AK cartridges. not sniper at all. I shot both the SKS and the M-1 guarantor and M-14 in the army and shot well. I have diplomas for excellent shooting, I served in Greece, and I want to say that by and large the Soviet and Russian weapons are almost nothing inferior to the western one. but it is much simpler and you can not handle it very carefully and it will not fail. that is, it is ideal for both the army and partisans. and specialists, they always choose their weapons themselves, adjust, somewhere they pull up the trigger, somewhere they polish, somewhere they add something, each for himself. and the cartridges will pick up accordingly. and today in the world there are so many rifles for these cartridges, for which new ones are still needed, because for the distance at which they are designed and the SVD does not do a bad job. another thing if they would develop under the cartridge say 10,3-11 mm. in such ammunition I see the point. but at 7,62 ... sorry. stupidity is still that.
    1. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 14 August 2016 11: 44
      +1
      Quote: parkello
      in general, the persistence of the NATO 7,62 and the Russian are the same, but the accuracy of the NATO is better

      1. The flatness is different, because the mass of the bullet and its speed are slightly different, especially at a distance of 400 meters.
      2. What ammo and what weapon did you compare? At a range of up to 400 meters, the accuracy is approximately the same, even if you use a bolt and SVD, but after 400 the accuracy of our cartridge is higher, and the maximum range of the aimed shot by our cartridge is further about 100 meters, even the American Marines Marxmen themselves talk about this after Iraq. ..
      Quote: parkello
      and equipping the NATO liner easier
      and what's the difference to the plant which cartridge to collect on the line? Army snipers are rarely engaged in self-roll, it makes no sense.
      Quote: parkello
      SCS also quite a good tool. my father had expeditionary. in Abkhazia in the mountains they took a goat on 1000 and 1200 m , and sometimes more from the first shot

      everything is clear with you, although they "got" and extracted these different things ... and with your tales about service in "greece" it is also understandable, although knowing from friends how they serve there, I can conclude that you only fired from the M-1 and everything else is just dreams.
  30. Shelest2000
    Shelest2000 25 September 2016 21: 24
    +1
    === The new project proposes to use the exhaust gas for the automation using a special muzzle device. A similar block is located on the muzzle of the barrel, which ensures the correct operation of the mechanisms without problems with excessive vibration of the barrel during the passage of a bullet through it. With all its advantages, this version of the gas outlet unit has some problems, first of all, excessive complexity in comparison with traditional designs ===
    Such a gas outlet on my AWT / SVT-40 is. Sophisticated and outdated solution.
  31. Navy7981
    Navy7981 27 September 2016 16: 21
    +1
    As it is not ours. In my philistine opinion, our weapon has always been distinguished by its operational simplicity (in the good sense of the word), while, if inferior in some performance characteristics, it exceeded in other indicators. And why this "hemorrhoid"? SVD normal front-line, trench, rifle, well, improve ergonomics there, design, can make a different barrel. The old isn't always bad. But with a rifle from the article, I categorically would not want to be in the mountains, in dust, mud, in the rain. Well, I don't believe that the described complications will lead to an improvement in combat use. (I assume that this rifle is to replace the SVD)

    If, of course, we talk about AK16, as a special weapon, or as a R&D, then yes, to try options is normal and necessary.
    And I absolutely do not like the AK16-AR16-M16 - just out of principle.
  32. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 20 October 2016 11: 33
    0
    I would like to have such a weapon in the arsenal of the Russian army.
  33. Torkvat torkvat
    Torkvat torkvat 2 December 2016 16: 20
    0
    Reminds: "the mountain gave birth - the mouse." , So the concern issued ...