Military Review

Sanctions Satellites

121
Domestic manufacturers are learning to make spacecraft on their own


The Russian space industry is in crisis due to technological sanctions imposed by the US and the EU. In fact, we are paying for the fact that in previous years we did not save and did not develop the production of microelectronics, relying on purchases of the electronic component base abroad.

Russian satellites consist of imported components on 30 – 75 percent. The newer and more functional the spacecraft, the more foreign stuffing in it. Now our industry is trying to master critical technologies as a matter of urgency, but it is unlikely that we will quickly catch up on lost time.

Sanctions filling


Technological restrictions on the part of the United States began even before the aggravation of the situation in Ukraine. In the spring of 2013, the first refusal to sell the equipment for the Ministry of Defense apparatus Geo-IK-2 was noted in a long time.

Its purpose is geodetic measurements of high accuracy, determination of the coordinates of the poles, fixing the movement of lithospheric plates, tides of the Earth, and the speed of rotation of the Earth. The orbital grouping of the system should consist of two vehicles, the first of which is planned to be launched in May of this year from the Plesetsk cosmodrome.

“ISS them. Reshetnev, a manufacturer of satellites Geo-IK-2, bought a complete set for the spacecraft in the spring of 2013. Exports of US (including partially, for example, tested and adjusted in the US) parts for military and dual-use systems are regulated by the ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) - a set of rules established by the federal government for the export of defense goods and services.

The supply of ECB categories of military (for use in military systems) and space (radiation-resistant components) in the Russian Federation is possible with the permission of the Bureau of Industry and Security of the United States Department of Commerce (BIS). And just in the case of the “Geo-IK-2” device, “good” was not received for the purchase of parts, which was explained by a general political background: the cooling of Russian relations with the US was already felt, the scandal with Edward Snowden was raging all over the world, the situation in Syria, which then almost ended with the intervention of the American troops (which was prevented by the position of Russia). In response, Washington has complicated the procedure for purchasing components.

But in 2013 there were still alternative channels and the equipment that could not be obtained in the USA, ISS was purchased in Europe.

We can do something ourselves


In exactly the same way, in 2013, the Ministry of Defense sought to resolve the issue with radar satellites. They wanted to order the system from the Franco-German Airbus Defense and Space (ADS). The competition among Russian companies (which, by tradition, would have bought the payload from ADS and installed on its satellite platform) was open, it was won by the Khimki NPO. S.A. Lavochkin. The contract amount is almost 70 billion rubles. It was about the latest radar system, the capabilities of which allow you to build an accurate 3D model of the Earth, as well as track objects on its surface.

Sanctions SatellitesThen followed the aggravation of the situation in Ukraine and the sanctions of the West in respect of defense products. Veto on the sale of military technology in Russia imposed itself Angela Merkel, according to Bloomberg. Agency sources estimated the contract at 973 million dollars. At the beginning of 2015, the Military Industrial Commission decided that the system would be created by the forces of Russian enterprises. An interdepartmental roadmap was agreed. In accordance with the approved draft design, the system should be built on the basis of five spacecraft, the first launch is scheduled for 2019 year. A key element of the system is an active phased antenna array for an onboard radar station. The technology of creating AFAR in principle is mastered by Russian manufacturers, but there are gaps in the part of the receiving-transmitting module. In accordance with the approved MIC "road map", Roslectronics should develop, test and show a receiving-transmitting module in action in the first half of this year.

From what was


Now we have to rely on our own resources when creating GLONASS navigation satellites. This year, the Ministry of Defense should take the system into normal operation. 75 percent of imported components is just about them, namely about the newest modification, the Glonass K-2 spacecraft.

Now the basis of the GLONASS orbital constellation is made up of the Glonass-M spacecraft, for the intended purpose 21 is used such a satellite. Their production has been discontinued, but there are still eight ready-made vehicles in stock. There are also two K-series satellites in orbit: the Glonass K-1 and the Glonass K-2. If you look at the federal target program GLONASS on 2012 – 2020, you will see that by 2020, Roskosmos planned to update the navigation grouping completely, replacing all Glonass-M with more modern K, which have a longer life span (10 against 7), better functionality (the signal is transmitted in more modern ranges and encodings), more precisely the clock. It is gratifying that they are Russian-made.

Atomic clocks - the heart of the navigation satellite. Its transmitters emit a signal of exact time and coordinates of the device at the moment. Having received information from several navigation satellites, the chip in the user device, whether it be a telephone or a navigator, calculates its coordinates. The more accurate the data it receives, the clearer the location is. The Glonass-M devices use cesium frequency standards. In the Glonass-K satellites, along with cesium, rubidium is also tested. In the next versions, it is planned to test the hydrogen frequency standard. In theory, this watch is the most accurate.

Technical improvements made it possible to hope that by the 2020 year the satellite fleet from Glonass-K would allow to achieve the accuracy of determining the coordinates at the level of the 0,5 meter - these are precisely the target indicators prescribed in the FTP GLONASS. But technological sanctions have made their adjustments. The lack of the possibility of a stable purchase of high-quality equipment led to the fact that last January the scientific and technical council of the Russian Space Systems (Roskosmos head organization for instrument engineering) determined that the onboard equipment of the new-generation serial satellite Glonass-K needs to be redesigned. That is, do not strive to repeat on their own K-2, made on imported components, but create a filling for a promising device, focused on the domestic ECB and the new circuit design.

It is not known how long it will take to design and production of the domestic Glonass satellite. The problem is that far from everything depends on Roskosmos - for the creation of ECB, the state corporation “Rostec” is now mainly responsible, namely its daughter - the “Roselectronika” concern, which unites 112 enterprises, research institutes and design bureaus.

For the time being, Glonass-K will be assembled from what is available and what will be able to be acquired abroad in one way or another. Roscosmos concluded with "ISS them. Reshetnev ”contract for the production of 11 satellites of a new generation: nine“ Glonass K-1 ”and two“ Glonass K-2 ”. The volume of the contract is 62 billion rubles, and in the ISS they do not hide the fact that each device will be assembled piece by piece and each time it will make its project documentation. That is what will be able to buy - from this and will do.

Pieces of demand

In 2014, Russian space equipment manufacturers had hope for China, which over the past decades has managed to create its own microelectronics. He gave this hope to himself. In August, Xo Numx, Vice President of the Great Wall State Industrial Corporation Jao Chunchao at a seminar in Moscow, said: “Now we are working to determine the list of products of interest to the Russian side. Until this point, the state control over the export of ECB was very strict. A mechanism is now being created that will make all Chinese space electronic components completely accessible to the Russian industry. ”

But hope for the Middle Kingdom rather quickly faded. Test samples delivered to the ISS and Lavochkin were not tested.

There remain two ways out of the crisis situation: wait for the early lifting of sanctions or re-create the microelectronic industry.

Some steps are already being taken. For example, in 2015, the development strategy of the Ruselectronics holding was adopted. It is planned that by 2019, 80 percent of the electronic component base of the satellite payload will be of domestic production. To this end, the total investment in the Ruselectronics holding in the next five years will amount to more than 210 billion rubles. It is planned to modernize the industrial sites where ECB is manufactured for space. It is embarrassing only that in our previous years efforts were made to create microelectronics production facilities. But in fact, all the announced major projects are carried out with great difficulty. Angstrem-T has not yet launched the production of microchips on equipment purchased from AMD in 2008 for a loan from VEB. The ambitious project Angstrom Plus, which envisages the creation in Zelenograd of the production of radiation-resistant electronic components for spacecraft and military products, stalled in 2013, due to shareholders' disagreements. Moreover, in 2010, the Ministry of Industry and Trade provided for the Angstrom Plus project budget financing in the amount of 50 as a percentage of its estimated cost in the Federal Target Program “Development of Electronic Component Base and Radio Electronics”. In 2011, the government-initiated project to create a radiation-resistant ECB in the Russian Space Systems OJSC (partially revived in 2015) stalled. As the practice of previous years has shown, in the case of production of ECB, even targeted budgetary support does not help much. The reason is generally clear: neither the state nor the private business can meet the demand for ECB in such a volume as to launch serious production for this. Roscosmos enterprises will buy dozens, perhaps hundreds of microcircuits, for the development of which billions of rubles can be spent, and there is no one else to offer them.

Pale perspectives


Under the conditions described, there is no reason to expect a quick update of the constellation of Russian satellites. However, the 2015 year was not so bad for the military: the Ministry of Defense received eight new spacecraft, which was a record figure lately. Although it is clear that the equipment was purchased mainly before the imposition of sanctions.

In 2015, three Rodnik-S communications satellites, three optical reconnaissance vehicles (Bars-M, Cobalt-M, Persona), a Tundra detection system satellite, and Garpun repeater were put into orbit. True, half of these devices are frankly outdated - “Spring” and “Cobalt” are to a large extent a legacy of Soviet times.

An interesting promising spacecraft "Kanopus-ST", unfortunately, lost due to abnormal launch in December last year. It was equipped with equipment for detecting submarines in the submerged state. The main instrument of this device was a radiometer, in this case it is a radar with a wavelength that allows you to see through the layers of water. The target device was made by STC "Cosmonite", which is part of the RCS.

But for the 2016 – 2017 years, the plans of the military are very modest. In February, the Ministry of Defense published a schedule of launches of military satellites on the website of public procurement of insurance services. It shows that by the end of 2017, the department plans to carry out only six launches. Two will be on the "Proton", that is, most likely in a geostationary orbit, where communications and retransmitters are usually located. Three launches will launch Soyuz 2.1b rockets. It is very likely that they are optical reconnaissance and mapping devices. On March 24, the Soyuz successfully launched a second Bars-M satellite into orbit. One launch is planned to be a light-class Soyuz 2.1.v carrier, which may indicate plans for the withdrawal of a bundle of low-orbit spacecraft.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/29967
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  1. surrozh
    surrozh April 3 2016 05: 57
    +11
    A gloomy picture. But the weak spots in the economy are understandable, the state is already taking measures, and the one who will walk will overcome the road.
    1. Internal combustion engine
      Internal combustion engine April 3 2016 06: 51
      -57%
      That Putin was prevented by Soviet electronics. Why did he ditch her. Strong in hindsight. A sign of mediocrity.
      1. cap
        cap April 3 2016 07: 27
        +39
        Quote: ICE
        That Putin was prevented by Soviet electronics. Why did he ditch her. Strong in hindsight. A sign of mediocrity.


        Let's remember the association "60 years of October" factories throughout the USSR. Hence the cooperation and personnel.
        And here Putin, MS Gorbachev "thank you".
        It was necessary to hold the country in his hands, and not listen to the air force radio, in the Foros basement. am
      2. vlad66
        vlad66 April 3 2016 08: 46
        +24
        Quote: ICE
        That Putin was prevented by Soviet electronics. Why did he ditch her. Strong in hindsight. A sign of mediocrity.

        This is a sign of your mediocrity, the hunchback began to ruin, and the Alkash of all Russia finished, to recreate in a new way is always more difficult than breaking.
        1. Enot-poloskun
          Enot-poloskun April 3 2016 09: 09
          +18
          Chapel of the 10th century, too, he broke?)))

          It is worrying that lately a people has been divorced on our website, who will publish an article a bit, writes gloatingly: it's all Putin! he is to blame!

          Are they being paid, or what?
          1. rica1952
            rica1952 April 3 2016 09: 16
            +1
            Read the constitution of the Russian Federation and then you will understand why they ask from Putin, learn the materiel
            1. n.kolesnichenko
              n.kolesnichenko April 3 2016 14: 31
              +11
              Read the Constitution of the Russian Federation and you will understand that it is impossible to ask Putin for affairs in the USSR !!!
          2. vlad66
            vlad66 April 3 2016 09: 25
            +27
            Quote: Enot-poloskun
            It is worrying that lately a people has been divorced on our website, who will publish an article a bit, writes gloatingly: it's all Putin! he is to blame!

            Colleague everything is as simple as 5 kopecks. The closer the autumn, the closer the elections to the State Duma, the more "saviors of Russia" on all websites, portals, social networks. After the elections, they fade until the next elections.
          3. cap
            cap April 3 2016 09: 34
            +5
            Quote: Enot-poloskun
            Chapel of the 10th century, too, he broke?)))

            It is worrying that lately a people has been divorced on our website, who will publish an article a bit, writes gloatingly: it's all Putin! he is to blame!

            Are they being paid, or what?


            Of course they pay. That's what the Constitution says about Putin and electronics. But here you are.
            Quote: rica1952
            Read the constitution of the Russian Federation and then you will understand why they ask from Putin, learn the materiel


            You cite an article to start hi . Then we will discuss materiel.
            Putin is capitalized.
            Take your time, everything is ahead of you.
          4. sibiryouk
            sibiryouk April 3 2016 12: 14
            +2
            And Kennedy also killed Putin !!!
          5. nov_tech.vrn
            nov_tech.vrn April 3 2016 22: 12
            +1
            this is a fee for the popularity of the site, they are interested not only in people interested in understanding the essence of the issue, but also lovers of fuss, and I’m sure that our opponents
          6. derik1970
            derik1970 April 4 2016 06: 55
            +4
            My friend, we have no one to blame for anything. The president himself, the oligarchs by themselves and the people of 140 million by themselves ... Who is responsible for something in the end ??? No? From year to year, the President reports from the rostrum on instructions that are boldly ignored by the same oligarchs and other gentlemen in power. It's not funny anymore! Thank you, of course, V. Putin, for foreign policy, well done ... But when will we put things in order in the country? It turns out that never !!! "The largest enterprise for the production of lithium-ion batteries, the Liotech plant, opened in December 2011 as a joint venture between Rusnano and the Chinese Thunder Sky Group. The volume of investments amounted to 14,8 billion rubles, but the plant never reached its design capacity. In 2013 year, a Chinese partner left the project. " And all the gentlemen's money has been spent and mastered, that is, someone has filled his own pockets! And this is all too often. The forest should be sent to the tundra to cut down all those responsible for this or that production if they are guilty ... The country is brazenly plundered and everything is in order. Yes, V.Putin is to blame, for the fish rots from the head, and this cannot be fixed, let alone in Russia. The oligarchs do not want to do anything, the officials are essentially the same oligarchs in the service. And no one pays me, for example, for my statements, you just have to really look at things. If, for example, being the head of a workshop, I recruit alcoholics to work, then I myself will run after them to redo everything. So it is in our state ... And then you understand that something good is good, Vladimir Putin is a fine fellow, and all that is bad is not his fault at all, but it is not clear what kind of official ... Our president lives in our country, he is our president or whose? And the fact that electronics in full p-op have long been well known to everyone, but it is beneficial to someone that it would be so. Have survived the pancake, the country's defense can not be ensured and this is not a crime? No? In the taiga in the tundra to cut wood, the same builders of the Vostochny cosmodrome. For oligarchs and officials have already become a habit to plunder everything they can reach ... There is no forest in the tundra, so let them plant a forest, grow it and then knock it down !!! However, it is so clear that no one will send anyone anywhere ... they become deputies for steep budget cuts ...
        2. Rus2012
          Rus2012 April 3 2016 09: 45
          +7
          Quote: vlad66
          This is a sign of your mediocrity

          But the hope of the Celestial Empire died away pretty quickly. Test samples(inna !!!), delivered to the ISS and Lavochkin, the tests did not pass.

          There remain two ways out of the crisis situation: wait for the early lifting of sanctions or re-create the microelectronic industry.


          "wait for the early lifting of sanctions" - the blue dream of corrupt collaborators - "ineffective managers" who have dug in the higher echelons of the military-industrial complex!

          "recreate the microelectronics industry" - their "idea" - an excuse for not doing anything for ... dtsat!

          What do we have to do:
          1. Introduce 100% functional control of purchased critical ERIs and a selection of workable ones (from China, South Korea, South America ... SE Asia, that is, wherever they sell).
          2. At an accelerated pace, "master" modern production lines for the required components. The main "Achilles' heel" of the Soviet electronics industry was the "cleanliness of production", an order of magnitude worse than even in South Korean industries (the so-called "yellow assembly").
        3. Pancho
          Pancho April 3 2016 23: 01
          +2
          Quote: vlad66
          to recreate in a new way is always more difficult than breaking.

          I would like to tell T. Stalin. Let me remind myself that after the Second World War the country was restored as soon as possible and in 1961 Yu.A. Gagarin flew into space. Putin has been at the helm since 1999 ...
          1. derik1970
            derik1970 April 4 2016 07: 12
            +3
            It seemed to me that all your opponents and my opponents, so to speak, are really being paid, well, at least with discounts in the pool ... For it is stupid to say that the head of state is responsible only for positive events in the life of the country and no more, well, you have to be either stubborn, or in the service of someone to be. One gets the impression that the whole site is stupidly one bunch of pseudo-realists, and they don't care who has been at the helm there since 1999, the feeling that they literally flock to a topical topic. By the way, it is still unknown how "he" came to this steering wheel in 1991, and who and how you know what blew up ...
      3. SPACE
        SPACE April 3 2016 09: 02
        +13
        Quote: ICE
        That Putin was prevented by Soviet electronics. Why did he ditch her. Strong in hindsight. Sign of mediocrity

        Soviet electronics was ruined by several factors, primarily the collapse of the USSR, which led to a disruption of cooperative production chains, a decrease in funding, the collapse of the defense industry, and with it losses, including domestic sales markets, technological lag behind the west, which easily conquered our market consumer electronics, we recall how people were chasing imported equipment, and among other things, it was the mass consumer market of household radio-electronic equipment that brought the main income of Westerners m developer, on the resources of which they can afford to develop highly specialized, but including military, space microelectronics.
        It is nevertheless necessary to develop our own base of microelectronics and now it is much more difficult to do and is possible only at the expense of internal state reserves and budgetary funds, since profits will not be expected for a long time. And where to get these funds? Once again, we return to oil and gas, which still remains to be sold and spent on the development of the internal base of not only electronics and other scientific, industrial, areas, until they independently earn money in a profitable mode and for which they need to conquer not only their own domestic market, but also to expand to the external.
      4. Yarr_Arr
        Yarr_Arr April 3 2016 09: 03
        +3
        You, my dear man, are lost in time ... Refresh memory and factology
      5. Nick
        Nick April 3 2016 12: 21
        +4
        Quote: ICE
        That Putin was prevented by Soviet electronics. Why did he ditch her. Strong in hindsight. A sign of mediocrity.

        You, along the way, are generally not strong with your mind. All Soviet electronics was killed before Putin, back in the twentieth century.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral April 3 2016 20: 07
          -2
          Yes, at the time of Khrushchev and Brezhnev.
      6. Kibalchish
        Kibalchish April 4 2016 11: 46
        +1
        When Putin came to power, nothing really remained of Soviet electronics! In general, Khrushchev threw the "first stone" into the vegetable garden of domestic electronics when he refused to develop cybernetics in his time, which is why the USSR always lagged behind the United States in this area.
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z April 3 2016 07: 52
      +12
      Technological restrictions on the part of the United States began even before the aggravation of the situation in Ukraine. In the spring of 2013, the first refusal to sell the equipment for the Ministry of Defense apparatus Geo-IK-2 was noted in a long time.

      And they launch military spacecraft on Russian engines ...
      The problem is that far from everything depends on Roscosmos - the state corporation Rostec is now mainly responsible for the creation of the electronic components, namely its daughter, the Concern Roselektronika, uniting 112 enterprises, research institutes and design bureaus.

      And what does RossNano do ?! "Successfully" masters the issued state funds and celebrates it at corporate events ?!
    3. Enot-poloskun
      Enot-poloskun April 3 2016 09: 07
      +6
      The production of microelectronics for the military needs of Russia should be 100% domestic. Dot!

      I remember Chubais boasted of a microcircuit factory that was funded by Rusnano ... Doesn’t it either?
    4. Skifotavr
      Skifotavr April 4 2016 19: 45
      0
      As usual until the roasted cock pecks ...
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 3 2016 06: 49
    -3
    As far as I understand, it’s difficult for us, but a gamerope without us can only go into space "from a trampoline." I think we can overcome the difficulties. But then we'll show them the middle finger! laughing
    1. Professor
      Professor April 3 2016 09: 12
      +1
      Quote: aszzz888
      which side. Until that moment, state control over the export of electronic components was very strict. Now a mechanism is being created that will make

      You first put things in order, and only then switch to Europeans.
      New military satellites of the Russian Federation have lost the ability to fly as a result of import substitution

      Speaking of trampoline. Look at the number of failures on the French launcher, and only then laugh. hi
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 April 3 2016 11: 55
        0
        professor (6) IL Today, 09:12 ↑ New
        Quote: aszzz888
        which side. Until that moment, state control over the export of electronic components was very strict. Now a mechanism is being created that will make

        Do not oversleep? Or are you sick?
        No need to glue me someone’s pull out of the text, professor! hi
      2. n.kolesnichenko
        n.kolesnichenko April 3 2016 14: 35
        +1
        And the number of starts is also comparable?
        1. Professor
          Professor April 3 2016 18: 50
          +1
          Quote: n.kolesnichenko
          And the number of starts is also comparable?

          Конечно.
          wink
    2. n.kolesnichenko
      n.kolesnichenko April 3 2016 14: 33
      0
      Has Arian been written off yet?
  3. Gray 43
    Gray 43 April 3 2016 06: 51
    +14
    And what does Skolkovo do? Everywhere they trumpeted about "innovative technologies", "our" Silicon "," Silicon "valley", and things are still there, they have created a workshop for "cutting" the people's money with a "roof" in the face of those in power. And real enterprises are trying to gather themselves after a large-scale defeat of industry in the 90s, now not even in money, but in personnel, Comrade Stalin was right with his winged and still relevant phrase, "Personnel decide everything."
    1. Vitwin
      Vitwin April 3 2016 06: 56
      +4
      Quote: Gray 43
      And what does Skolkovo do?

      In particular, deputy Ponamarev, went with lectures with payment from Skolkovo))) For a small fraction -740 thousand. dollars? I don’t remember the exact numbers.
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat April 3 2016 08: 08
        +7
        "What does Skolkovo do?" And, you don’t know, “saws” the state loot, like all the other “entrepreneurs” who “revive” our industry and, in general, the economy “under sanctions”. Nope, gentlemen, without a new Stalin, Beria and the KGB, we will not "revive" or "build" anything. The same China created its own military-industrial complex and, in particular, microelectronics, by rigid methods, through state planning and management. In our country, as usual, they are waiting for an "investor" or "entrepreneur" to come and do and build everything for us. The "thinking" of our "leaders" has not changed for the second decade, they are afraid of the "planned economy" like fire. "state administration", etc. and how to hope for manna from heaven on the "invisible, omnipotent hand of the market" which will do and create everything for them and for them. It is simply stupid to hope for changes in this area in a country where the main priority of ideology and all relations is "making" money "by any means".
        1. SPACE
          SPACE April 3 2016 09: 33
          -6
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          The same China created its military-industrial complex and, in particular, microelectronics, using strict methods, through state planning and management

          Tough methods can be forced, by pumping enormous amounts of money, into the development of Wishlist, and their funds need to be taken somewhere, from China this is due to the billions of low-paid population working in the world factory of cheap consumer goods. But here to create good things for a long time and even more so force someone to buy them will not work. Are you ready for forced labor and wearing standard workwear?
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          where the main priority of ideology and all relations is "making" money "by any means

          All living things and even your actions are subject to this law, of course, if you are a free person, everything else is unprofitable populism.
          1. Monster_Fat
            Monster_Fat April 3 2016 11: 16
            +6
            In China, microelectronics factories do not work for "pennies". The average salary for example in the Foxcon company on the assembly line is 800-1000 dollars per month. This is about 50-65000 rubles for our money. On our "assembly" lines, a worker receives 25-30000 rubles from his strength. And where do you say "low-paid" population? Russia currently has the lowest paid production workforce.
            1. n.kolesnichenko
              n.kolesnichenko April 3 2016 14: 39
              0
              Are you sure that at our microelectronics enterprises workers get 25-30 thousand? You are VERY mistaken !!!
            2. SPACE
              SPACE April 3 2016 16: 30
              0
              Quote: Monster_Fat
              In China, microelectronics factories do not work for "pennies".

              You are not careful, what does the salary of a narrow sector of Chinese microelectronics workers have to do with it, and who invested in it and how did it get its development? Could it be at the expense of other sectors of the economy? And there workers receive the same salary?
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. cap
          cap April 3 2016 09: 42
          0
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          The thinking of "our" leaders "has not changed for the second decade - they are afraid of the" planned economy "," public administration "and so on like fire, and how to rely on the" invisible, omnipotent hand of the market "


          As long as one rule of the "hands of the market" works, they wash each other.

          Manus manum lavat (lat. hand washes hand) is a phraseological phrase used in the meanings: "The hand washes the hand, and both are white live"; "One good turn deserves another"; "Tu mihi, ego tibi" ("you to me, I to you"). Quoted in the Axiochus dialogue attributed to the philosopher Plato as a saying of the Greek comedian Epicharmas. "
          1. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS April 3 2016 11: 35
            +8
            There is one more question: whose production avionics are equipped with our latest combat aircraft? what
            Obviously, minor Western sanctions immediately showed the true place of the Russian Federation in the world division of labor. And from the attributes of a great superpower, we only have the Stalinist nuclear club.
            Over the past 25 years, entire industries have been destroyed, many technologies have been lost, technological chains destroyed.
            But most importantly, the cadres and their succession have been lost.
            It’s even scary to think how many decades ago the violent construction of capitalism threw back the country.
            But there are still no development programs, just as there is no planning for either short-term or long-term.
            And if we discard verbal husk and PR-delirium, then logical questions arise: what do we still have, what type of state are we and what is the main thing that we built, created over the past 25 years and what this period engaged in power?
            1. Vitwin
              Vitwin April 3 2016 11: 42
              +4
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              But there are still no development programs, just as there is no planning for either short-term or long-term.

              Why is all this Victor? After all, there is oil and gas, enough for the time of the ruling elite, and then the grass does not grow.
              And by the way there is a millennial plan in how fellow
              press clerk from SK Markin voiced wassat
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Cat man null
              Cat man null April 3 2016 12: 39
              +1
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              minor sanctions of the West, immediately showed the true place of the Russian Federation in the world division of labor

              Right? what

              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              yet we have what type of state we are and the main thing that we have built, created over the past 25 years, and what did the authorities do during this period?

              A fighter "against the authorities", you understand .. and here I am - for, a year without work .. spetsalizd, like, .. nothing so-so .. okay, let's figure it out wink
              1. PHANTOM-AS
                PHANTOM-AS April 3 2016 19: 09
                +1
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                A fighter "against the authorities", you understand ..

                Yes, I am for the Soviet Government and I do not hide it! soldier
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null April 4 2016 12: 03
                  -1
                  Quote: PHANTOM-AS
                  I am for Soviet Power

                  Dreams, dreams .. was and ended .. sad
            4. cap
              cap April 3 2016 19: 04
              0
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              And if we discard verbal husk and PR-delirium, then logical questions arise: what do we still have, what type of state are we and what is the main thing that we built, created over the past 25 years and what this period engaged in power?


              Let’s figure it out in 25 years!
              1. PHANTOM-AS
                PHANTOM-AS April 3 2016 19: 05
                +2
                Quote: cap
                Let’s figure it out in 25 years!

                I would like to live wink drinks
                and I really hope that the power will still change. good
            5. Pancho
              Pancho April 3 2016 23: 07
              +1
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              It’s even scary to think how many decades ago the violent construction of capitalism threw back the country.

              Notice, in the 20th century this is the third destruction of Russia, with the first two Comrade Stalin coped, but now he is gone.
          2. varov14
            varov14 April 3 2016 15: 17
            +3
            While the hand washes a hand under a lying stone, water will not flow. Now it’s time to drive a wave and cut loot, work is not a wolf what good is it.
    2. novobranets
      novobranets April 3 2016 08: 38
      +9
      Quote: Gray 43
      And what does Skolkovo do?

    3. Rus2012
      Rus2012 April 3 2016 16: 12
      0
      Quote: Gray 43
      And what does Skolkovo do?

      /// including the search for talented youth, landing on grants, with further luring in the laboratory.
      For information - up to 70% of grants are paid by investors from abroad ...
      Those. in fact, Skolkovo is not ours.
      1. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich April 6 2016 19: 13
        0
        landing on grants


        I thought that every state should take care of the future of its people.

        All, including Russia, should "plant" their talents on their own grants and develop further.
        Does Russia really have no money / desire to keep talented people?
  4. sa-ag
    sa-ag April 3 2016 07: 53
    +8
    "... The reason is generally clear: neither the state, nor private business can meet the demand for electronic components in such a volume to launch serious production for this. Roscosmos enterprises will buy dozens, perhaps hundreds of microcircuits, the development of which can cost billions of rubles , and there is no one else to offer them. "

    A strange reason, the market for radiation-resistant electronics is narrow in itself, but nevertheless, some states produce electronics without worrying that there is no one to sell it to
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan April 3 2016 09: 05
      -4
      Quote: sa-ag
      "... The reason is generally clear: neither the state, nor private business can meet the demand for electronic components in such a volume to launch serious production for this. Roscosmos enterprises will buy dozens, perhaps hundreds of microcircuits, the development of which can cost billions of rubles , and there is no one else to offer them. "

      A strange reason, the market for radiation-resistant electronics is narrow in itself, but nevertheless, some states produce electronics without worrying that there is no one to sell it to

      In addition to satellites, there is both a military sector and a civilian one.
      Equipment for the Ministry of Emergencies, modern military technology, robots ... computer production.
      But you never know where you can attach the element base?
      But production is a dreary business.
      We need to find organizers, talented engineers, skilled workers, and they need to be prepared for more than one year. This is the stumbling block.
      Production ... You have to put life on it.
      Spend and spend the night in the shops ...
      1. cap
        cap April 3 2016 09: 54
        0
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        We need to find organizers, talented engineers, skilled workers, and they need to be prepared for more than one year. This is the stumbling block.
        Production ... You have to put life on it.
        Spend and spend the night in the shops ...


        When there is a goal, to live for the country and future generations, you can sleep in the shop. And they slept.
        frontfront


        In his lifetime you will not have to read that "the Russian oligarch hanged himself on the bridle of his beloved horse worth 100000 dollars from remorse."
  5. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 April 3 2016 08: 09
    +4
    Already so many articles have been written, so many programs have been done about how everything in the country, including industry, has collapsed. He spent his youth practice in Novosibirsk at a factory producing electronics, in the workshop where microcircuits were made. And now everything has been leased there, the premises where the equipment was used are used for warehouses, offices, exhibition halls.
    Many of those "reformers" still live happily ever after, no one was punished ...
    1. Yarr_Arr
      Yarr_Arr April 3 2016 09: 05
      +2
      The same for NIIT in Korolev (Kaliningrad) was
  6. kirgudu
    kirgudu April 3 2016 08: 42
    +5
    Ours tried to buy komplektuha in China, but they raised prices to the level of European, but the quality left Chinese.
    In short, we would at least catch China ... :(
  7. Nasty
    Nasty April 3 2016 09: 15
    -5
    Quote: ICE
    That Putin was prevented by Soviet electronics. Why did he ditch her. Strong in hindsight. A sign of mediocrity.

    They began to destroy in 45g, after the victory. Rather, not so - "paid due attention." Further, more, Soviet microcircuits are the largest microcircuits in the world! But in the field of ballet we are ahead of the rest. So Putin, in principle, has nothing to do with it.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 April 3 2016 09: 55
      +2
      Wow, microelectronics was already launched in the USSR, and in the 90s this industry did not exist at all, only now they started to work in this direction.
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 3 2016 12: 59
        +4
        Quote: Vadim237
        Wow, microelectronics was launched in the USSR

        Vadim hi As a former employee of the Electronprom, I will tell you a big secret - by the middle of the 80s there was no lag anymore, they went head to head, there was a car and a small cart ... They began to haunt our electronics since the 88th, and in the 90s they were killed on root with cheap imports ... The same Elbrus, which MCST is doing now, is the development of the 80s, I read about it for the first time in TM in the 89th year, in my opinion, it is a personal machine, but in the form of large machines it has already been used on the same "Baikal" ... recourse
    2. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 3 2016 12: 42
      +9
      Quote: Nasty
      Rather, not so - "paid due attention"

      Would you at least take an interest in the subject before writing something ... Don’t pay say? So did not pay that in 51m the first computer was created? Did rockets fly into space on manual control? And the S-25 and S-75 were aimed manually, and instead of the radar there was a soldier with a powerful telescope, yeah belay fool
      And about the largest schemes - a simple example of 85g. KP580VM80A and his classmate Z-80 just compare the sizes and don’t trynd more
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 3 2016 12: 47
        +7
        And here for comparison
        And where are the world's largest microchips? And these are all classmates with the same opportunities ....
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 April 3 2016 17: 37
          +1
          I meant microprocessors.
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet April 3 2016 17: 27
        +2
        Quote: Raven1972
        So did not pay that in 51m the first computer was created?

        The first ENIAC computer was created at the end of 1945 in the United States.
        The main ideas that developed computer technology for many years were formulated in 1946 by the American mathematician John von Neumann. They got the name von Neumann architecture.
        In 1949, the first computer with von Neumann architecture was built - the English EDSAC machine. A year later, the American computer EDVAC appeared.
        In our country, the first computer was created in 1951. It was called MESM - a small electronic calculating machine. The designer of MESM was Sergey Alekseevich Lebedev.
        1. Monster_Fat
          Monster_Fat April 3 2016 17: 46
          +2
          The first computer was created in Germany by Konrad Zuse during the Second World War http://informat444.narod.ru/museum/pres/pdf/PCWEEK_2011_08_23.pdf
          1. opus
            opus April 3 2016 19: 50
            +2
            Quote: Monster_Fat
            First ЭVM was created in Germany by Konrad Zuse during the Second World War

            1. The computerElectronicI'm a computer
            2. Z-1 (“Tset-1” / “Zuse-1”) - the first computing machine that corresponded to the concept of a computer. The Z-1 had binary arithmetic, memory, and software control. It consisted of more than 20 mechanical parts...
            weaving machine with a given pattern, the same "mechanical computer"
            3.In 1943, American Howard Aiken using Babbage's work based on 20th century technology - electromechanical relays - was able to build such a machine at one of IBM's enterprises called "Mark 1".
            Electromechanical (relay), but NOT ELECTRONIC


            Final: first on "lamps", first ЭVM:
            1946 ENIAC (from Electronical Numerical Integrator and Calculator - "Giant Brain").

            The mass of the system was 27 tons
            1. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 3 2016 21: 00
              +3
              Quote: opus
              3.In 1943, the American Howard Aiken

              Anton hi At 43m the Germans in all plowed for the benefit of the Reich Z-3 hi
              1. opus
                opus April 3 2016 21: 15
                -1
                Quote: Raven1972
                At 43m the Germans in all plowed for the benefit of the Reich Z-3

                erupts.
                yes I know.
                but this is not an electronic computer?
                Z-3 on RELAY (telephone)

                (Naturally not on the USSR-ovsky) wink

                ==========================
                although electronically vacuum tubes were already known
                1. Raven1972
                  Raven1972 April 3 2016 21: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: opus
                  although electronically vacuum tubes were already known

                  Well, what can you write, if there is no stamp - we write on a simple one)))) here Tsuze’s limited means (((But the Z-3 was already a full-fledged machine with air-blast, even the Henschel aircraft were calculated on it fellow
                  1. opus
                    opus April 3 2016 23: 53
                    -1
                    Quote: Raven1972
                    But the Z-3 was already a full-fledged car with an air-blast, on it even airplanes in Henschel were counting

                    I do not argue.
                    Computer and ЭVM, however, are somewhat different concepts.

                    Shl. Just that I visited the Leonardo-da Vinci Museum in Verona (I do not advise, it is expensive, it is not worth it, except for the little things to look at), there are the same "computers" (models are presented)

                    Charles Babbage ((December 26, 1791, London - October 18, 1871, ibid.) - Foreign Corresponding Member of the Petersburg Academy of Sciences (1832). Author of works on the theory of functions, mechanization of counting in economics. In 1833 he developed a project of a universal digital computer - a prototype of a computer . Babbage is often called the "father of the computer" for invented im analytical machinealthough her prototype was created many years after his death.

                    In 1842, Ada Byron undertook to translate into English an article by the Italian scientist Maniber about the Babbage analytical machine. Babbage later suggested she provide the text with detailed comments. It is these comments that give descendants reason to call Ada Byron the first programmer of the planet. She drew up a plan of operations (the world's first computer program!) For an analytical machine, with which you can solve the Bernoulli equation. The first programmer suggested that over time, the analytical machine will be able to compose music.
                    1. Foofighter
                      Foofighter April 5 2016 08: 21
                      0
                      In the relay, too, the electrons ... The first computer is precisely Z-1 and it had greater performance than the American one. A loom is not a computer.
        2. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 3 2016 22: 09
          +1
          Quote: Bayonet
          In our country, the first computer was created in 1951. It was called MESM - a small electronic calculating machine. The designer of MESM was Sergey Alekseevich Lebedev.

          Alexander hi So I meant the first in the USSR, about ENIAK I am in the know fellow
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 April 3 2016 17: 43
        +2
        You need to write a book "Development and Achievements of Microelectronics in the USSR"
      4. opus
        opus April 3 2016 19: 44
        -1
        Quote: Raven1972
        And about the largest schemes - a simple example of 85g. KP580VM80A and his classmate Z-80 just compare the sizes and don’t trynd more


        The topology of the KR580VM80A is similar but not identical to the i8080. However, differences in the implementation of opcodes KR580VM80A not found.

        in 1976, when the Americans with might and main mastered the Altair 8800,

        in the Soviet shops of cultural goods began to appear color television "Rubin 714" (60 kg of weight, wooden case, lamps!), which cost about 700 rubles. (despite the fact that a salary above 130 rubles was considered good).

        VNIIEM purchased samples of Intel microprocessors and framing chips, the Intellec-800 development system.
        The main issue was the organization of the development and production of microprocessors by the domestic industry using CMOS technology. VNIIEM managed to conclude a direct contract with the Kiev NPO Kristall for special equipment. The development of microcircuits was carried out by the department of A.V. Kobylinsky Kiev Research Institute of Microdevices. VNIIEM gave them samples of 8080 crystals. "

        I’m probably not going to hang up the usual labels “again torn apart”, “I’m not able to come up with anything myself” After all, in those years, only the lazy didn’t make a replica of 8080, and among the most famous imitators were NEC, Mitsubishi, National Semiconductor, Siemens, AMD and Zilog. Against the backdrop of this carnival of industrial espionage, R&D by Crystal is nothing more than childish pranks: there was no talk of competition with Intel, and the volumes are not the same. To catch a departing train ...
        By the end of the 70s, the work as a whole was completed. The first microcircuits of the series were copied with accuracy reaching absurdity. The first K580IK80 processor completely repeated the i8080, including the planar arrangement of 48 pins and a ceramic case. The KP580IK80A and KP580VM80A that followed in fact turned out to be full 8080A clones. To say aloud that the new microprocessors were not developed from scratch in the USSR was an unprecedented audacity that threatens many troubles. The first mention of the practical application of the advanced “Soviet” microprocessor is found in the description of the prototype of the SM-1800 machine of the 1979 NGO Electronmash in 1981. But it took another couple of years to transfer this computing complex to industrial production: serial copies of computers were only released by XNUMX.

        ---------------------------
        It's about this, not about "sizes
        1. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 3 2016 20: 40
          0
          Quote: opus
          It's about this, not about "sizes

          Anton hi The comrade said specifically - Soviet microcircuits are the largest microcircuits in the world. Although in reality this is not so, I answered him fellowhi
          1. opus
            opus April 3 2016 21: 17
            -2
            Quote: Raven1972
            . Although in reality this is not so, I answered him

            Well, in principle, I do not dispute.
            Only it was like this (if I didn’t forget): they bought (scribbled there), scanned, recreated, linked to the technological base, attempted release.
            1. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 3 2016 21: 26
              +1
              Quote: opus
              Only it was like this (if I didn’t forget): they bought (scribbled there), scanned, recreated, linked to the technological base, attempted release.

              The most important thing is technology, the Americans went a little earlier on the path to reduction, and therefore had to catch up (((And on the basis of technology - they have already gone on their interesting work, such as the same 588 series (DVK-3 was built on it) and what’s most interesting - on DVK its own axis was, our own hi
        2. Bayonet
          Bayonet April 3 2016 20: 49
          0
          Quote: opus

          in the Soviet shops of cultural goods began to appear color TV "Rubin 714"

          714th, it is already unified - ULPTST. Before him was the 401st.
          In October 1967, a pilot plant was launched at the Moscow Television Plant, and since January 1968, already
          Routine production of the first domestic, tube-semiconductor TVs `` Rubin-401 '' type
          LPCT-59 intended for receiving color and b / w images on a 59LK3T kinescope, with a vi size
          370x475 mm image in the MV range. The TV contains 21 radio tubes, 15 transistors
          and 54 diodes. Sensitivity - 50 μV. Sharpness - 450 lines. Power consumption 350 watts. Weight 65 kg.! hi
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 3 2016 20: 57
            0
            Quote: Bayonet
            and since January 1968

            Alexander hi Foreign TV in those years were exactly the same))) bully
            1. opus
              opus April 3 2016 21: 28
              0
              Quote: Raven1972
              Foreign TV in those years were exactly the same)))

              Nope

              1959 Philco Safari






              On March 25, 1954, RCA released the world's first serial color television. The CT-100 model was able to bring color television programs out of the “underground” and corresponded only to the emerging standards of color television in the NTSC standard.

              as much as $ 1000



              .
              March 25, 1960 the world's first launch of a guided missile from a nuclear submarine USS Halibut (SSGN-587)
              1. Raven1972
                Raven1972 April 3 2016 21: 36
                0
                Quote: opus
                1959 Philco Safari

                Where to look? belay
                And for the ST-100, the size is still))))))
                1. opus
                  opus April 3 2016 23: 30
                  +4
                  Quote: Raven1972
                  Where to look?

                  portable 1959th


                  TV set "Electronics-450". Alexander plant named after 50th anniversary of the USSR. Model 1982 year.


                  RCS TT-5, 1939 $ 199.50 - crazy loot



                  Quote: Raven1972
                  And for the ST-100, the size is still))))))

                  and a year? = 1954, colorEeetnoj
                  In 1955, the company Raytheon presented 21 inch TV at a price of $ 795, and CBS offered the consumer up to $ 400 for old black and white TVs, provided that the money would be used to purchase a new 21-inch model of the company at a price of $ 895.



                  PS. Corporation introduced the first microwave oven for commercial use Raytheon also


                  REMOTE CONTROL (radio channel), 1960


                2. Bayonet
                  Bayonet April 4 2016 03: 13
                  0
                  Quote: Raven1972
                  And for the ST-100, the size is still))))))

                  Our viewers did not even dream about color in his time. hi
                  1. Raven1972
                    Raven1972 April 4 2016 13: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: Bayonet
                    Our viewers did not even dream about color in his time.

                    Alexander hi You do not forget that at that time we still didn’t really restore the country after the war, were we at that time before televisions? This is not a bomb fell on the USA during the whole war, not a single plant was destroyed, so that they would not bother?
            2. Bayonet
              Bayonet April 4 2016 03: 09
              -2
              Quote: Raven1972
              Alexander Zabugornye TV in those years were exactly the same)))

              We had a French Thomson in control, and after it Rubin 401. I would not say that it is one and the same. wink hi
              1. Raven1972
                Raven1972 April 4 2016 13: 41
                0
                Quote: Bayonet
                We had a French Thomson in control

                But the dimensions are approximately the same hi wink + there was practically no plastic in ours, remember the cases yourself - there were wooden ones, a bit later from chipboard hi
              2. Bayonet
                Bayonet April 5 2016 06: 25
                0
                Quote: Bayonet
                We had a French Thomson in control, and after it Rubin 401. I would not say that it is one and the same.

                Well, the foolish minuscule climbed! I haven’t seen these TVs in my eyes, but in order not to throw shit on a quiet one, there’s no way without it! fool
          2. opus
            opus April 3 2016 21: 21
            +2
            Quote: Bayonet
            In October 1967, a pilot plant was launched at the Moscow Television Plant, and since January 1968, already

            I was not yet a year old request
            I can’t remember that. Rubin - I remember, according to the quota of the grandfather of the veteran, they bought the order carrier (the grandfather until the very end and watched EXCLUSIVELY BW TV, he didn’t recognize color

            regular television broadcasting on a system with optical-mechanical scanning of the image began in the USA in 1927, in the UK in 1928, in Germany in 1929

            After the development and creation of the NTSC system, in 1953 (before that, the CBS television system with serial transmission of color fields, adopted in the USA in 1950), the United States began regular color television broadcasting. Then there were color TVs.
            1. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 3 2016 21: 30
              +1
              Quote: opus
              Rubin - I remember

              I had Temp-738))) And before it, Horizon B / W)))
        3. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 3 2016 20: 55
          +1
          Quote: Raven1972
          The topology of the KR580VM80A is similar but not identical to the i8080. However, there were no differences in the implementation of the opcode KP580VM80A.

          So why it was all muddied with copying - we needed software compatibility and the possibility of replacement in import nodes + development and development of CMOS technology. Although it would be more interesting to develop the same Urals and BESM towards miniaturization hi
          P.S. And Altair is interesting only for its S-100 bus, and so is a dummy, my self-made UT-88 and Spectrum were able to do it an order of magnitude more, and for those times 256 bytes (!!!) is not a memory hi
          1. opus
            opus April 3 2016 21: 31
            +5
            Quote: Raven1972
            So why it was all muddied with copying - we needed software compatibility and the ability to replace in import nodes + development and development of CMOS technology

            if you are a leader in this area, then they copy you, no "muddiness" is needed.
            And then it came (from cretinism ryapetriotov)
            Pentium (intel), developed by OUR. probably from V.M. Pentkovskogo
            belay


            V.M. Pentkovsky is a graduate of the Department of Computer Engineering of the Faculty of FRTK MIPT in 1970 ... In 1991, he began working at Intel, where he now works


            And Altair ... it's still the first commercial "PC" (I will put it in quotes)


            and the most important thing!)
            Two Schoolchildren, whose names are now known to everyone, Paul Allen and Bill Gates, seeing a publication in Popular Electronics, called Edward Roberts and offered him an interpreter program that translates Basic language commands into Altair 8800 machine codes. Roberts, of course, agreed, saying that he was ready to purchase any working BASIC translator, and soon received it. What happened next, we remember well. Two recent scholars founded Microsoft


            At Intel's declared selling price of the processor 8080A at $ 360 tokit for computer self-assembly, available for order by mail, cost fantastically little - $ 397.
            1. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 3 2016 21: 41
              +1
              Quote: opus
              if you are a leader in this area, then they copy you, no "muddiness" is needed.

              But I didn’t even say that we were leaders))) But by the time I was 85, there was no critical lag - we were going nostril to nostril practically hi And it’s not a fact that we would not be leaders, continue to develop our own - the same Urals, for example, the mere fact that our networks were already in 67 says a lot recourse
              1. Raven1972
                Raven1972 April 3 2016 22: 04
                0
                Quote: Raven1972
                But I didn’t even say that we were leaders)))

                Maybe they weren’t the leaders, but we didn’t have electronics in the corral, they developed, they didn’t stand still.
                P.S. That's even interesting, with whose filing began to copy? ((((Because of this, they also lagged behind (((
              2. opus
                opus April 3 2016 23: 45
                +1
                Quote: Raven1972
                that we were leaders)))

                I said it on
                Quote: Raven1972
                was all muddied up with copying - I needed a software compatible

                muddy with copying is NOT NECESSARY if:
                -you are the leader in software (and "base": BIOS, DOS, etc.
                -You are a leader, AT LEAST in OL (Israel will become like this (it has almost become) for 5 years, "itching) I give"
                Mother of all processors-What processor did the first IBM PC run on? Right, on the i8088. It was entirely developed in Haifa. Israel




                Quote: Raven1972
                But by the 85th there was already no critical lag

                Quote: Raven1972
                Maybe they weren’t the leaders, but electronics weren’t in the pen too

                "Boris, you're wrong!" ™

                wink
                It would be a ride (with me, with other HZ)
                1. If I didn’t receive a passport. Mmm in 1983 or 82? or (xs, you have to look)
                2. If I did not have an "additional" specialization turner-milling machine tool with CNC (later added, there was no CNC at first)
                3. If I had not gutted the cabinets of the K-3V cabin, and then changed the blocks in the S-300P a little
                4.If I didn’t have (still alive): telefunken Tv color 1990, Blaupunkt radio tape recorder 1989 (the younger one cut off the antenna, the power supply had to be replaced in 2007), r / m Philips (but this is not an indicator for 505 China) 1989, TV SONY 54 "original JAPAN 1990 (only from 2012 after 1,5 work turns green, as well as cimus)
                5.If I, in 1996 (or 1998) did not supply to Kazakhstan the former mobile hospital of the Bundeswehr, born in 1984 (I got sick), filling siemens, AEG, telefunken and also COD (MANDATORY Zollamt control for "dual use")
                6. About the filling of the S-300PMU1 / S-300PMU2 "Favorite" (not the chassis, but about the radar)? And about the KLG on "Iskander"? .. I will not, problems mb. etc....
                1. Raven1972
                  Raven1972 April 4 2016 14: 02
                  +2
                  Quote: opus
                  It would be a ride (with me, with other HZ)
                  1. If I didn’t receive a passport. Mmm in 1983 or 82? or (xs, you have to look)
                  2. If I did not have an "additional" specialization turner-milling machine tool with CNC (later added, there was no CNC at first)
                  3. If I had not gutted the cabinets of the K-3V cabin, and then changed the blocks in the S-300P a little
                  4.If I didn’t have (still alive): telefunken Tv color 1990, Blaupunkt radio tape recorder 1989 (the younger one cut off the antenna, the power supply had to be replaced in 2007), r / m Philips (but this is not an indicator for 505 China) 1989, TV SONY 54 "original JAPAN 1990 (only from 2012 after 1,5 work turns green, as well as cimus)
                  5.If I, in 1996 (or 1998) did not supply to Kazakhstan the former mobile hospital of the Bundeswehr, born in 1984 (I got sick), filling siemens, AEG, telefunken and also COD (MANDATORY Zollamt control for "dual use")
                  6. About the filling of the S-300PMU1 / S-300PMU2 "Favorite" (not the chassis, but about the radar)? And about the KLG on "Iskander"? .. I will not, problems mb. etc....

                  Anton hi Well, I was not born yesterday either))) And I had a chance to work until the collapse in the 90s on my beloved P / O Pomegranate in Kaluga, and VNIIMET was the head office, so you know - my knowledge didn’t come from scratch hi And I still remember how yapas bought crystals growing plants at our ELMAT, because we were the only ones at that moment who pulled out crystals 72 cm in diameter (all over the world at that moment they could have a maximum of 24 cm), so I also have what to remember and what to tell hi drinks
              3. Bayonet
                Bayonet April 4 2016 03: 22
                -1
                Quote: Raven1972
                And not the fact that we would not be leaders, continue to develop our

                And what did they not develop? "Liberasts" did not seem to exist then, or, as always, "the enemies did not give"? wink As our President used to say - if my grandmother was like my grandfather ... hi
                1. Vitwin
                  Vitwin April 4 2016 03: 41
                  +1
                  Quote: Bayonet
                  "the enemies did not give"

                  TV and computers are a layer lying on the surface, except for the comforting story about Pentkovsky there is nothing to cover - and to take genetics, they have lagged behind forever, it seems like they strangled it with the "square-nest" method and never recovered.
                  The gap in science is so colossal - it really remains how to rejoice in the USSR - Caliber and Yars
                  Only this joy of a sloness didn’t lead us there in 1991.
                2. Raven1972
                  Raven1972 April 4 2016 13: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: Bayonet
                  Liberast "did not seem to exist then, or, as always," the enemies did not give?

                  So ask a question - who needed it? Who made the decision to copy? Damn, the bookmarks after reinstallation were gone, I would give you an interesting link just about it recourse
                  1. Bayonet
                    Bayonet April 4 2016 13: 57
                    -1
                    Quote: Raven1972
                    So ask a question - who needed it?

                    It seems to me that there are two options - either something is done to the detriment, or nothing at all is done. The result will be approximately the same. hi
                    1. Raven1972
                      Raven1972 April 4 2016 14: 13
                      -1
                      Quote: Bayonet
                      I think there are two options - either something is done to the detriment

                      I will try to find this article now, it is very well written there by a person who is directly related to electronics and our VT. Here, apparently, the question was somehow lobbied with some selfish interest, apparently someone really wanted titles and academic degrees, but the country simply did not care ... am
  8. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 April 3 2016 09: 15
    +1
    There remain two ways out of the crisis situation: wait for the early lifting of sanctions or re-create the microelectronic industry.

    Of course, we need to develop our science and do critical things ourselves.
    Effective Western managers deliberately spread the development of such industries.
    Now we are reaping the benefits of their activities. And they still rule our country.
    China bought technology in the West and now produces a lot of it itself. Despite the fact that China is communist and Russia is democratic.
    But these are just one words ...
  9. sibiryouk
    sibiryouk April 3 2016 12: 22
    0
    In Zheleznogorsk, where the enterprise "ISS" named after Reshetnev is located, there is also a silicon plant, if money from Skolkovo is transferred here, then electronics for space can be made at a local base!
  10. Crown
    Crown April 3 2016 12: 37
    0
    Skolkovo has finally given birth and will export robots. These robots will advise clients in banks and shops. wassat
    1. 16112014nk
      16112014nk April 3 2016 13: 20
      +1
      One of the inventions from Skolkovo. Renewable energy source.
      1. Adagka
        Adagka April 3 2016 18: 43
        +2
        Quote: 16112014nk
        One of the inventions from Skolkovo. Renewable energy source.



        There is still a robot props from a short circuit (if someone does not know in the 80s the movie was like that) which was welded to the ATV. And even the whole country trumpeted I would be ashamed on what thread the regional competition of young talents such a shame show)
  11. 16112014nk
    16112014nk April 3 2016 13: 13
    0
    Quote: Enot-poloskun
    It is worrying that lately a people has been divorced on our website, who will publish an article a bit, writes gloatingly: it's all Putin! he is to blame!

    Well, that's right, it was destroyed under Gorbachev and Yeltsin. But what prevented Putin for 16 years at the helm (Medvedev does not count) to restore the destroyed and liquidated production? For the same 16 years (1945-1961), everything was restored in the USSR and even beyond that! Or again "HPP"?
    1. Adagka
      Adagka April 3 2016 18: 40
      -4
      Quote: 16112014nk
      Quote: Enot-poloskun
      It is worrying that lately a people has been divorced on our website, who will publish an article a bit, writes gloatingly: it's all Putin! he is to blame!

      Well, that's right, it was destroyed under Gorbachev and Yeltsin. But what prevented Putin for 16 years at the helm (Medvedev does not count) to restore the destroyed and liquidated production? For the same 16 years (1945-1961), everything was restored in the USSR and even beyond that! Or again "HPP"?

      Right now, the Zatupintsy will popularly explain that around enemies do not need to rock the boat agent of the State Department well and further on the training manual. And the fact that Putin Obama, by and large, should kiss the fifth point and say twice for oil for 120 (remember Libya and Iran), well, since this is not in the training manual, then in reality this also does not exist)))
    2. trantor
      trantor April 3 2016 19: 17
      -1
      Quote: 16112014nk
      What prevented Putin from recovering destroyed and liquidated production at the helm (Medvedev does not count) for 16 years? Over the same 16 years (1945-1961) everything was restored in the USSR, and even more than that!

      Let's not compare Putin’s time with Medvedev and Stalin (although without them the picture will be a little distorted, but still) we’ll just compare this time.

      Year 1945. The terrible war has just ended, but all the emotional losses are compensated by the mere word VICTORY! Economy: sharpened to perform any, from the word ALL, tasks as soon as possible and with maximum quality. Managerial staff: for the prewar and war years, people who not only know how to do the job, but also root for it, have been cleaned and licked, in leadership positions. People: He believes and is motivated so that different Lozhenitsins would not write about that time — to my father at that time 16, to mother 14 — partly these are their emotions.
      Like all. With such basic conditions the mountains can be turned back, which was done.

      Year 2000... In short, it is a DEFEAT, almost "Ukraine Today". The country no longer exists, the economy is not clear on what it is based, the people are deceived and disappointed by everyone and everyone. There is only one victory - criminals and managers in the service of oligarchs. I was in 99th in the rank of n / n-k retired - when I quit I thought that the army was no longer there either, honestly.
      So what? From this position immediately forward and upward? No. As one classic (without a surname) said: "In order to start from scratch, you still need to crawl to it."

      So those and these 16 years are two big differences.

      NB And the last question. WHOM was Stalin in 1945 and KEM Putin in 2000?
      1. onix757
        onix757 April 3 2016 19: 56
        +1
        Quote: trantor
        NB And the last question. WHOM was Stalin in 1945 and KEM Putin in 2000?

        And what prevented Putin from becoming Stalin?
        Stalin built, passed on to his descendants an excellent scientific school and powerful industry, but ... he couldn’t even dream in a nightmare that in the 3rd millennium an educated people would not be needed, and deindustrialization was elevated to the rank of state policy. It’s easier to collapse than to build
      2. 16112014nk
        16112014nk April 3 2016 20: 56
        0
        If Putin had not brought St. Petersburg Medvedev, Miller, Sechin, Kudrin, Mutko, Ivanov, Naryshkin, Matvienko with him, sent Chubais to forestry (Stalin removed St. Petersburg from power in the late 40s), in a word, he would have acted as the president of Singapore, you look people would believe and be motivated no worse, or maybe better. In addition, I’ll clarify that the pre-war level was restored during the life of Stalin (i.e., 5-7 years). And now, in 16 years, under the leadership of Putin, the 1991 level has not been reached. And the fact that now Russia, and not the USSR is a little comfort.
  12. Gaersul
    Gaersul April 3 2016 17: 07
    +2
    Microelectronics is not only factories producing microcircuits. A microcircuit is a final product, but how to make it? There is a whole range of problems where one pulls the other. For example, chemistry (processes of deposition and photolithography) - in our country there is no high-quality chemistry, from the word at all. Our company receives the only quality chemistry from Malaysia. Russian and (pah, pah, pah) Chinese are not good - a huge amount of impurities. There are also a lot of problems with equipment. In general, here to invest and invest, and not just money.
  13. Bayonet
    Bayonet April 3 2016 17: 23
    -1
    Something you can't hear enthusiastic cries - "thanks for the sanctions!" Or did the steam come out? wink
    He was connected with electronics all his life and fairy tales about the fact that already in the eighties walked "toe-to-toe", this is for the naive. We have never had such a variety and level of integration of microcircuits, but there was a specific lag for many years. Hence the size and power consumption. Those who are in the subject should remember the Yerevan electrolytes - this is a song, or rather a headache! laughing Why engage in self-deception? About the fact that it is necessary to raise domestic microelectronics, conversations have been ongoing for more than a dozen years, but here we are all sitting at imported computers!
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    "No-oh gentlemen, without the new Stalin, Beria and the KGB, we will not" revive "or" build "anything.

    I wonder how the rest of the world could do without them? smile
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag April 3 2016 18: 31
      0
      Quote: Bayonet
      Hence the dimensions and power consumption.

      EC-1022, as I recall, I had to deal with it :-)
    2. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat April 3 2016 18: 42
      +2
      How did you manage? It is very simple, for example, with the help of colossal state monetary injections, with full state control over the spending of each monetary unit and resources, and naturally for many years. We will not be able to do this because of the already established system of universal theft and "cutting" on the one hand, and on the other hand, we simply do not have time to "swing".
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet April 3 2016 20: 56
        -1
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        This will not work for us due to the already established system of universal theft and "cutting"

        So the system is rotten and needs to be treated. But with the help of "sharashki" progress has not been achieved - slave labor is not productive. It is necessary to create conditions for work, to interest financially, but for some reason we have ... request
  14. Adagka
    Adagka April 3 2016 18: 36
    -1
    Zatupintsy is of course a phenomenon that requires careful study, they are all to blame for the Chubais, the Medvedev and the proxies, but not their best sidekick Putin. He then finally all in white and generally passed by))) for them we have done this new and Old Testament in one bottle. And the fact that this is done with 2/3 of our collected from imports is such a trifle not worth mentioning.
  15. zoknyay82
    zoknyay82 April 3 2016 20: 17
    0
    ... "there is no reason to expect a quick update of the constellation of Russian satellites."
    Who's counting? A new wave of privatization is coming and "partners" and "colleagues" will "help". What else works will be done for ridiculous money. Do not expect good if pests are in power.
  16. 31rus2
    31rus2 April 3 2016 20: 37
    +2
    Dear, it’s kind of strange to read your comments, were you born just yesterday? This situation is not only in radio-micro electronics, but everywhere from A to Z, this topic is not profitable for business, that's all, it’s profitable to lift sanctions and bought and resold , this is an economy, a simple example is now shown a lot, they write about the revival of the agro-industrial complex, everything seems to be fine, but everything from technology to equipment is all imported, there is no revival planned for both manufacturing and processing industries, here that’s high technologies ?, but no, everything is simple, but of high quality and at the proper level, and so I will answer whether Putin is to blame, of course it was under his leadership that this system was created and most importantly continues to be created
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet April 3 2016 20: 59
      0
      Quote: 31rus2
      This situation, not only in radio-micro electronics, but everywhere from A to Z, is not beneficial for business

      The greatest mystery - why is it profitable to produce around the world, but not profitable in our country? request
      1. 31rus2
        31rus2 April 4 2016 07: 08
        +1
        Dear, our business was brought up on "short money", bought today, invested, tomorrow in excess of profit, everything else is not interesting, the legislation is the same weak point
  17. Vako
    Vako April 3 2016 20: 38
    +1
    A completely open review of the satellite theme.
  18. Mestny
    Mestny April 3 2016 22: 50
    -1
    Quote: Enot-poloskun
    It is worrying that lately a people has been divorced on our website, who will publish an article a bit, writes gloatingly: it's all Putin! he is to blame!

    Are they being paid, or what?

    No, at least if they pay, then not at all.
    Their brains are so filthy - they sincerely work for free.
    But those who come up with such methods of brainwashing that a normal person turns into a pro-liberal zombie are paid with that, yes.
    And a lot.
  19. cedar
    cedar April 4 2016 06: 28
    +1
    Quote: Bayonet
    Quote: 31rus2
    This situation, not only in radio-micro electronics, but everywhere from A to Z, is not beneficial for business
    The greatest mystery - why is it profitable to produce around the world, but not profitable in our country?


    This is the greatest mystery for believers in the "collapse" of the USSR, in Western democracy and other nonsense traps about free cheese ...
    In real life, there is the defeat of the USSR in the Cold War and its grave consequences, which are manifested everywhere, including in the economy.

    See the offices of consulting companies, but in fact
    DEPARTMENTS OF OCCUPANTS IN THE TERRITORY OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION are very concerned about our "prosperity", especially in microelectronics, aha ... "Competitors of all countries unite!"

    Ernst & Young Offices
    115035, Moscow, Sadovnicheskaya nab. 77, p. 1
    620014, Yekaterinburg, st. Khokhryakova 10, BC "Palladium"
    420107, Kazan, st. Spartakovskaya, 6, Office center "Suvar Plaza", office 1214
    350063, Krasnodar, st. Sovetskaya, 30, World Trade Center, (WTC-Krasnodar), office 1106, 1108
    630102, Novosibirsk, st. Sovetskaya, 5, block A, 10 floor
    344022, Rostov-on-Don, st. Suvorov, 91, BC "League of Nations"
    190000, St. Petersburg, st. Malaya Morskaya, 23, Business Center "White Nights"
    445037, Tolyatti, st. Frunze, 14B, office 413
    Vladivostok, st. Ocean Avenue, 17
    493000, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, ul. Police, 8B, office 207

    KPMG Offices
    123317, Moscow, Presnenskaya embankment, 10, Complex "Tower on the embankment", block C
    191119, St. Petersburg, ul. Marat, 69-71, letter "A", BC "Renaissance Plaza"
    630004, Novosibirsk, Railway Station, 1/1, BC “League Capital”, 8th floor
    344010, Rostov-on-Don, 60 Budennovsky Ave., Gedon Business Center
    620014, Yekaterinburg, st. Voevodina, 8, Business Center "Limerans"
    603006, Nizhny Novgorod, st. Gorky, 117, Business Center "Lower Capital"
    420107, Republic of Tatarstan, Kazan, ul. Spartakovskaya, 6, Office Center Suvar Plaza, office 813
    660135, Krasnoyarsk, st. Spring, 3A, BC "Spring"
    614000, Perm, Komsomolskiy prospect, 1, "Sadko" business center, 3rd floor

    PwC Offices
    125047, Moscow, st. Butyrsky Val, 10, BC “White Square”
    190000, St. Petersburg, per. Grivtsova, 4, Business complex BolloevCenter
    420111, Kazan, st. Right-Bulachnaya, d. 35/2
    620142, Yekaterinburg, st. March 8, 51, BC “Summit”, office 1501
    630099, Novosibirsk, st. Kamenskaya, 7, BC "Hilton"
    350000, Krasnodar, st. Yankovskogo, 169, BC "Izumrud", 9th floor
    344018, Rostov-on-Don, st. Tekucheva 139/94, Business Center “Clover House”
    394016, Voronezh, Moskovsky Prospect 19 B, Business Center "Capital", 9th floor
    693007, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, Prospekt Mira, d.119A, lit. Ah, office 28
    362040, Vladikavkaz, st. Gappo Baeva, 1

    Offices Deloitte
    125047, Moscow, Lesnaya St., 5, building B
    199004, St. Petersburg, V.O., Sredny pr-t, 38, bldg. 1, lit. TO
    450077, Ufa, st. Karl Marx, d.20
    620014, Yekaterinburg, st. Boris Yeltsin, d.1A
    693000, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, Chekhov St., 78

    TNS Offices
    Russia, Media & Custom Research, 127018, Moscow, st. Dvintsev, 12, building 1, Business Center "Dvintsev"
    Russia, Production Unit, 125319, Moscow, B. Koptevsky passage, 6
    121248, St. Petersburg, ul. X-ray, d. 4A
    Branch in Tula, 300026, Tula, Lenin Avenue, 102, building 3

    Who does not believe, let him check! At the same time, take an interest in which banks, ministries and companies they put their advisers to advise ...
  20. neo1200
    neo1200 April 4 2016 18: 13
    -1
    And sanctions are good, you need to grow your engineering staff, and not rely on Western electronics. It was only necessary to deal with this since 2011. Now the dependence on imported components would have been much lower