Military Review

The construction of small rocket ships project 22800 "Karakurt"

80
The construction of the first small missile ships (RTOs) of the long-term project 22800 Karakurt has begun. The first two ships of the series were laid at the Pella factory in Otradnoye. Over the next few years, it is planned to build a large series of such ships, which will continue to update the naval fleet and give him modern technology with high performance.


The laying of two ships of the new project took place on December 24 at the shipyard "Pella". In accordance with the order of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, the first ships of the 22800 project were named “Hurricane” and “Typhoon”, the ship's serial numbers were 251 and 252, respectively. According to the approved construction plans, all necessary work, including testing, must be completed within the next few years. The ship "Hurricane" should be part of the Navy in 2017 year, "Typhoon" - in 2018-m. According to some reports, these ships will be transferred to the Black Sea Fleet. According to representatives of the fleet, the newest ships have a number of characteristics that positively affect their characteristics and combat capabilities.


General view of the ISC pr 22800


The plans of the military, concerning the construction of small rocket ships of the 22800 project, became known this summer. In early July, Admiral Viktor Chirkov, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, said that in the foreseeable future new ships of the 22800 project will be built, which should replace the existing frigates of the 11356 project. In this case, it was argued that the laying of the lead ship of the new type will be held in 2016 year. As recent events have shown, these plans were adjusted, thanks to which the construction of two ships at once started before the end of 2015.

In August appeared news on the completion of design work on the IRA "Karakurt". At the time of these reports, the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau was completing work on a technical project. In addition, in August, information appeared on the estimated size of the planned series. It was argued that 18 new small rocket ships would be built.

At the end of October, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Vice Admiral Viktor Bursuk told the press that the new ships of the Almaz Central Design Bureau will be built in a large series, several shipbuilding enterprises will be involved in this project. Due to the large number of ships project 22800 will be able to enter into the composition of all four fleets. V. Bursuk also noted that the main strike weapons of the promising ships will be the Caliber cruise missiles.


Mortgage board of the ship "Hurricane"


In the second half of this year (exact date unknown), the Ministry of Defense and the shipbuilding enterprise “Pella” concluded the first contract for the construction of small rocket ships of the 22800 “Karakurt” project. According to current plans, in the next few years the Pella plant is to build seven new types of ships. Next year or later there will be an open competition, during which the builder of the next ships of the series will be determined. As previously stated, a total of navy must receive 18 ships.

Earlier it was noted that the new ships of the 22800 project should change in the construction of the 21631 “Buyan-M” project. After analyzing the opportunities and prospects, it was decided to limit the construction of "Buyanov-M" to nine units. After that, the Navy will receive new ships of the "Karakurt" type. The first ships of this type, in accordance with existing plans, should be part of the fleet in 2017-18. After that, the supply will continue.

A curious feature of the recently launched project is the fact that the Pella plant had not previously engaged in the construction of warships. This company has extensive experience in the construction of various equipment, but in the interests of the military department was engaged only in the assembly of boats. Now factory workers will be able to get a new experience, which will be useful to them in carrying out the following orders.


Mortgage board of the ship "Typhoon"


According to reports, small rocket ships of the 22800 project will have a displacement of about 800 t, total length about 60 m, width of 9 m and draft about 4 m. As follows from the published materials, the ships will have a hull and superstructure, built from a set of straight panels The goal is to reduce radar visibility. Exact information about the applied main power plant is missing. Apparently, the available types of diesel engines will be used. Ships will be able to reach speeds up to 30 nodes and perform assigned tasks at a distance of up to 3 thousand miles from the bases.

In the aft part of the superstructure of the ships "Karakurt" a universal ship shooting complex with eight cells will be installed to accommodate missiles. The main strike weapons of ships will be Caliber missiles of various types with different combat units. In addition, an artillery mount with an 76 caliber mm gun will be mounted in front of the superstructure. Anti-aircraft armament will consist of 30-mm machine gun and rocket-artillery system. To search for targets, conduct attacks and solve other tasks, the 22800 project ships will receive a set of modern radio-electronic equipment.

According to current plans, the Navy should receive 18 ships of a new type, which will be distributed among all the major formations, with the exception of the Caspian Flotilla. The construction of the IRA of the 22800 Karakurt project will make it possible to continue the modernization of the fleet, reinforcing it with new ships with high performance and advanced weapons. The exact timing of the completion of the construction of the series has not yet been clarified. Probably, the new type 18 ship will be transferred to the customer no earlier than the middle of the next decade. This will significantly increase the combat capability of the Navy, as well as increase the share of new warships.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://svpressa.ru/
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
Author:
Photos used:
Curious / Forums.airbase.ru
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  1. PN
    PN 28 December 2015 07: 06 New
    27
    This will not be a mosquito fleet, but a flock of sea wolf cubs. It seems to be small, but they bite painfully, and even if in a pack ...
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco 28 December 2015 07: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: PN
      This will not be a mosquito fleet, but a flock of sea wolf cubs. It seems to be small, but they bite painfully, and even if in a pack ...

      Ripped from the mouth good
    2. ImPerts
      ImPerts 28 December 2015 07: 38 New
      0
      Series of the 22800 project "Karakurt". If the NATO members have a sense of humor, then in their classification they should name them - "Black Widow".
      Although they have a bad sense of humor ...
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 28 December 2015 09: 13 New
        0
        Although they have a bad sense of humor ...


        They have no humor at all. The Lord did not give such a feeling of mericosia.
    3. Civil
      Civil 28 December 2015 17: 31 New
      0
      Quote: PN
      This will not be a mosquito fleet, but a flock of sea wolf cubs. It seems to be small, but they bite painfully, and even if in a pack ...

      And where are the air defenses at the pack?
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 28 December 2015 17: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: Civil
        And where are the air defenses at the pack?

        As my math teacher-ship said, air defense "went to mind" wink
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 20 December 2019 22: 23 New
          0
          Which means that they will be quickly drowned by a small group of ... helicopters with small anti-ship missiles. There was a previous example - “Hunting Turkeys” in the Persian Gulf 1991
  2. Linkor9s21
    Linkor9s21 28 December 2015 07: 10 New
    0
    How much I like these futuristic ships)) It's simply gorgeous, especially these "Watching" "Clever" "Fleet Admiral of the Soviet Union Gorshkov"
  3. Sirocco
    Sirocco 28 December 2015 07: 10 New
    +8
    I think we are on the right track. And not enough of this amount (this is my opinion, I could be wrong) Why do I think so? I recall frequent trips to the taiga, there is nothing worse, and more disgusting than the midge, which causes so many problems. So with these ships, one also needs a lot, so that they would be meaner. You won’t slam everyone at once, but they’ll cause problems, mom don’t cry.
    1. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 28 December 2015 07: 25 New
      +8
      Quote: Sirocco
      I think we are on the right track. And not enough of this amount (this is my opinion, I could be wrong) Why do I think so? I recall frequent trips to the taiga, there is nothing worse, and more disgusting than the midge, which causes so many problems. So with these ships, one also needs a lot, so that they would be meaner. You won’t slam everyone at once, but they’ll cause problems, mom don’t cry.

      It is far from the navy theme, but I also think that in the current situation in the navy with limited financial resources and time to build, building a "mosquito" fleet is the optimal solution (of course it is justified as a forced solution that corresponds to the realities of the time, as a kind of transitional stage).
      1. cobalt
        cobalt 28 December 2015 14: 11 New
        +1
        And if this mosquito fleet is strengthened by naval strike aircraft (the same SU 34) and coastal missile systems, which is also not very costly, then in 5-10 years we will be able to defeat any invasion fleet in our territorial waters.
    2. Aroma77
      Aroma77 28 December 2015 12: 57 New
      0
      This gnat has a sting more mosquito.)
    3. CHILD
      CHILD 29 December 2015 03: 03 New
      0
      .... technology does not stand still) .. the future is visible behind this trifle ... there you look at the warship according to the crew and will be pulled up to the size of the aircraft))))
    4. 3danimal
      3danimal 20 December 2019 22: 34 New
      0
      Until all run out. Not able to seriously defend themselves from air attacks.
  4. Alex_59
    Alex_59 28 December 2015 07: 36 New
    +3
    in the foreseeable future, the construction of new ships of the 22800 project will be carried out, which should replace the existing frigates of the 11356 project
    To put it mildly, not a full replacement. Now, if they built 11356 and in addition to them began the construction of 22800 then it would be just fine.
    The laying of two ships of the new project took place on December 24 at the Pella shipyard
    Pella! Interesting. A new player in the military shipbuilding market. I wonder what will happen in the end. True, it is not clear what Zelenodoltsev will load after the construction of Buyanov-M and the Yantar Shipyard is completed after the construction of 11356 is stopped. Will Amber be idle? This is one of the country's best GCCs, which, thanks to Indian orders, can be said to flourish against the backdrop of many others.
    1. Eggor
      Eggor 28 December 2015 08: 28 New
      +7
      Quote: Alex_59
      Will Amber be idle?

      Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov noted that the first seven ships of this type will be built at Pella, and in 2016 an open competition will be held to continue the series.

      General Director of JSC Zelenodolsk Plant named after Gorky "Renat Mistakhov:

      - As far as I remember, "Buyanov-M" should have been more - 12 ...

      - Right. The fact is that the Ministry of Defense wanted to build three more ice-class Buyan-Ms. But then this idea was abandoned in favor of another IRA project - the central marine design bureau Almaz. "Buyan-M" was originally built for the Caspian Sea, but with the possibility of seamless transfer from one sea to another. Hence - a small draft, jet propulsion. It has now been decided to build more seaworthy and high-speed RTOs designed for the Baltic, the Black Sea and the North.

      - Does the plant claim to release new RTOs?

      They will be built at several shipyards, and the main one was laid at the Pella plant in St. Petersburg. We also really want to build these ships. Moreover, the modernization of our enterprise was carried out according to the federal target program, designed specifically for the construction of RTOs. Today we are the only factory that is fully prepared for the serial construction of such ships.

      Well, the replacement of small missile ships of the 1234 project. It is unclear why they dragged 11356, there are no engines yet, the series is forcedly suspended.
      1. red_october
        red_october 28 December 2015 10: 01 New
        +6
        And really, why not connect Crimean shipyards, Far Eastern, Northern here? Let each region build a fleet slowly for itself, so let us fill the whole world with new inexpensive but effective ships.
        This is not the same as building a huge cruiser or destroyer, many shipyards should be able to, at the same time it is possible to carry out the modernization of each individual plant, pour in new money, equip it if necessary. And then Crimea is already ours, and its factories are not just loaded and equipped ... But orders will go there - and the need for skilled workers will, it means they will train, develop related specialties, etc.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 28 December 2015 12: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: red_october
          And then Crimea is already ours, and its factories are not that loaded and equipped ...

          What plants do you mean? Theodosius did not build displacement ships. The Gulf is completely loaded with civilian orders (it was loaded in Ukraine, I don’t know right now) and since 2014 of the year has been building 2 tankers for the Navy: http://russianships.info/vspomog/23131.htm
    2. Eggor
      Eggor 28 December 2015 08: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: Alex_59
      The truth is not clear what Zelenodoltsev will load after the completion of the construction of Buyanov-M and the Yantar Shipyard after the construction stop of 11356

      Zelenodolsk:

      Cheetahs for Vietnam

      22160 series (two ships were laid down, and there will be six in total in the series: the first will be delivered in 2017, two in 2018, two in 2019 and one in 2020. Plus, six ships of the 22160 ice class project are to be built)

      22100 series for FSB Coast Guard

      special-purpose boats "Rook"

      Shipyard "Amber" can continue the series of BDK 11711? In theory it would be necessary ...
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 28 December 2015 09: 42 New
        +2
        They again overdue the lead one year (the delivery is now until the end of 2016), but no one is building such a BDK. Now everyone is building transport docks of the first wave (not necessarily smooth-deck) and transports of the second wave, which will be unloading supplies and weapons already at the captured port.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 28 December 2015 10: 50 New
          -3
          Yeah, Amber has done its best this year. In the summer, there was an interview on the seaport with their main one, who proudly stated that by the end of 2015 they would surrender the Navy as many as 4 large ships - Yantar, Gren, Griogorovich and Essen. And what does this record mean throughout Russia. As a result, just surrendered, by the summer, is just Amber. For all the rest, the deadlines are completely overwhelmed. Zelenodolsk and the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg managed the order for the next year, the rest have nothing to brag about.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 28 December 2015 12: 07 New
            +2
            Quote: EgGor
            Shipyard "Amber" can continue the series of BDK 11711? In theory it would be necessary ...

            Well, actually BDK for "Amber" is a suitcase without a handle. Not their profile. They always had trouble with BDK, look at the construction dates for the not-so-sophisticated 1174 - and this is in the 80 years. And compare with the pace of production 1155, which were built in the same years. Heaven and earth.
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            In the summer, there was an interview on the seaport with their main one, who proudly stated that by the end of 2015 they would surrender to the Navy even 4 large ships - Yantar, Gren, Grigorovich and Essen. And what does this record mean throughout Russia. As a result, just delivered, by the summer, just Amber

            The Indian order was made almost like a clock. So they can, if counterparties work normally and the payment is more or less debugged. And now, Ukraine, sanctions, etc. I wouldn’t scold the plant for it. He is really one of the best in the country. Of course you can’t compare with the NSR, but it probably works better than the same Severnaya Verf shipyard. I'm not talking about KnASSZ.
  5. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 28 December 2015 08: 05 New
    +2
    Well, since we find it difficult to build larger ships, MRCs are needed in much larger quantities. The direction is logically correct and justified. You just can’t see any shifts in PLO ships or minesweepers (the epoxy Alexandrite is very laborious. Can’t it be possible to assemble a wooden hull and apply resin with a binder). In addition, Rubin has a project for the Amur-950 export submarine with a mine missile launch system Such submarines are indispensable in the Black and Baltic Seas, and even in Pacific Fleet will not be superfluous.
  6. Rokossovsky
    Rokossovsky 28 December 2015 08: 09 New
    10
    in the foreseeable future, the construction of new ships of the 22800 project will be carried out, which should replace the existing frigates of the 11356 project

    belay
    What nonsense! How can an 800-ton boat replace a full-fledged patrol boat with 4000 tons displacement with adequate armament and a deck-mounted submarine helicopter ?! request
  7. Fei_Wong
    Fei_Wong 28 December 2015 08: 23 New
    +2
    Quote: Rokossovsky

    belay
    What nonsense! How can an 800-ton boat replace a full-fledged patrol boat with 4000 tons displacement with adequate armament and a deck-mounted submarine helicopter ?! request

    And which is better: say, or make one 4000-ton guard, or five RTOs of 800 tons (combined with much greater attack potential and combat stability)?
    1. Rokossovsky
      Rokossovsky 28 December 2015 08: 39 New
      +6
      Quote: Fei_Wong
      Quote: Rokossovsky

      belay
      What nonsense! How can an 800-ton boat replace a full-fledged patrol boat with 4000 tons displacement with adequate armament and a deck-mounted submarine helicopter ?! request

      And which is better: say, or make one 4000-ton guard, or five RTOs of 800 tons (combined with much greater attack potential and combat stability)?

      The inability of industry to build frigates on a massive scale does not need to be dragged here! 800-ton MRK has more attacking potential than a frigate ?! What combat stability, in the absence of anti-submarine helicopter ?! How to find and hit underwater targets, matyuki? no
      1. over
        over 28 December 2015 09: 04 New
        +1
        For not having more, start small! These ships will be able to navigate in large numbers with refueling in the seas and oceans, performing strategic tasks, and in the company with Severodvinsk and Nakhimov, any fleet in the world will give way.
        1. Garris199
          Garris199 29 December 2015 01: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: over
          refueling on the seas and oceans,

          Yeah, just pray in advance for the weather. In the ocean, in a storm, it will spread across the waves.
      2. over
        over 28 December 2015 09: 04 New
        0
        For not having more, start small! These ships will be able to navigate in large numbers with refueling in the seas and oceans, performing strategic tasks, and in the company with Severodvinsk and Nakhimov, any fleet in the world will give way.
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 28 December 2015 08: 53 New
      +6
      Quote: Fei_Wong
      And which is better: say, or make one 4000-ton guard, or five RTOs of 800 tons (combined with much greater attack potential and combat stability)?

      Is it better to have an apple or an orange? These are ships of different classes. TFR is, albeit stripped down, but still air defense, it is a PLO and a helicopter, it is Caliber and Yakhont, plus seaworthiness, autonomy.
      RTOs are just Caliber and nothing more. In closed seas such as the Baltic, Caspian or Black Sea, it still makes sense, especially in the skerries where there are hides (Baltic). And even then, such seas are entirely controlled by coastal aviation. But to patrol the Gulf of Aden or on a visit to Cuba such an RTO to send is problematic.
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 28 December 2015 09: 16 New
        -6
        But to patrol the Gulf of Aden or on a visit to Cuba such an RTO to send is problematic.


        Why send RTOs there. They will get it from their pier.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 20 December 2019 22: 39 New
          0
          Forget the "fog of war."
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 28 December 2015 09: 50 New
      +7
      What is better to get:
      nothing until 2020 + year?
      or a pack of RTOs up to 2020 + years?

      So the question is, because there are no turbines and they can not be bought. China will not sell, since they depend on foreign suppliers of components from GE and Zori, India is similar, there are screwdriver docking boxes in general, unlike China, Hindus do not even have a stand. Going to Zorya, RR, GE is simply stupid. This is already omitting the fact that the ship was considered a specific set of turbines and the installation of other turbines on it will lead to serious changes in its running characteristics, repair and maintenance procedures, and autonomy.

      Besides:
      22350 - is done according to the scheme 2 Diesel + 2 afterburner turbines. That is, he needs 2 turbines.
      11356 - in the constructed form it is done according to the principle of 2 marching turbines + 2 afterburner turbines. That is, he needs 4 turbines.

      The first years, turbines will be produced piece by piece. And the ships for them will be ready and wait for the heart, what is better to supply 2x22350 or 1x11356 per year?
      1. K-36
        K-36 28 December 2015 13: 05 New
        +2
        For donavi49
        Your phrase in the post "...China will not sell, as they depend... "somehow too categorical. Here, for example, is a link on the arrangements for the supply of Chinese engines for ships of project 22460 http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/16/rubin/. And such a ship has a displacement of more than 1 00 tons, and other dimensions will be more than that of the Karakurt yes
        This news was actively debated at the Marine Forum of the site Balancer.ru http://www.wrk.ru/forums/viewforum.php?id=25
        Regards hi
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 28 December 2015 13: 33 New
          0
          I spoke about turbines - for 11356 / 22350 and others. It’s not such a problem to buy a diesel engine, and even the towing columns have already been imported, in Chinese, but there is one.

          There is a big difference:
          They build the diesel themselves and under license separately, but they already have a full cycle in China from metal ingots to the finished engine.

          With turbines, the situation is different, they do not have a full cycle, they depend on Dawns and GS. Therefore, the sale is unlikely.
    4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 December 2015 11: 07 New
      +5
      Quote: Fei_Wong
      And which is better: say, or make one 4000-ton guard, or five RTOs of 800 tons (combined with much greater attack potential and combat stability)?

      You are measuring in vain for tonnage. Actually, for the cost of a 4000-ton watchtower, build on the strength of 3-tonne. Given that against these submarines these RTOs can’t do anything at all.
  8. DesToeR
    DesToeR 28 December 2015 08: 58 New
    +2
    Surprisingly, the production time of the ships is 1,5 ... 2 years per ship with a displacement of only 800 tons. Who in the subject can comment on the timing - is this normal?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 December 2015 09: 57 New
      +7
      Previously, when the box was stuffed with all kinds of machine guns, and 45 and Katyusha, in addition, it was criminal.

      Now, the box itself can be built even faster, the question is saturation ... It is the equipment that is waiting for the longest. Therefore normal.
      1. medic
        medic 28 December 2015 10: 35 New
        0
        The difference Buyanov and ships of the project 22800 realized. I have a different question, why are they better than the ships of project 22160 (modular) assembled in Zelenodolsk? It turns out the same zoo as among the armored vehicles - Tiger, Lynx, Wolf, Ansyr, etc.
        1. Gunther
          Gunther 28 December 2015 11: 35 New
          -1
          The difference in displacement and price (they are cheaper than project 22160).
          ARMAMENT:
          Attack missile: anti-ship cruise missiles in vertical launchers - 8 pcs.
          Artillery: universal artillery mount -1 (76 mm.) And 2 (30 mm);
          Anti-aircraft missile :: anti-aircraft missile artillery installation -1 combat module; Radio engineering: AMCOI "Tpacca-E", radar "Mineral-M", cattle "Sigma-E"

          Small, but deleted)))
          1. medic
            medic 28 December 2015 11: 46 New
            0
            Understood thanks.
  9. Andrewgross
    Andrewgross 28 December 2015 11: 47 New
    0
    Board manufacturers have a problem with the Russian language and office programs. It is clear that Word puts capital letters at the beginning of each line, but 9 education classes are still enough to disable this option or to understand what needs to be written differently. Or did the Tajik guest worker make a mock-up of the mortgage board?
    After the name you need a period, after the bookmark date - a comma, the next line - with a lowercase letter, the next - with a lowercase letter, at the end of it.
  10. Gunther
    Gunther 28 December 2015 11: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Andrewgross
    Board manufacturers have a problem with the Russian language and office programs. It is clear that Word puts capital letters at the beginning of each line, but 9 education classes are still enough to disable this option or to understand what needs to be written differently.

    Word + Unified State Examination (Fursenko + Lebanon) = terrible destructive force)
  11. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 28 December 2015 12: 21 New
    -5
    Pella instead of river barges will begin to produce Karakurt, and the shipyard in Zelenodolsk instead of Buyanov will release river barges. Everything as usual.
  12. agfa
    agfa 28 December 2015 12: 36 New
    0
    Hello everyone and Happy New Year!

    I don’t want to recall the Death Star and the phrase by Master Yoda, “Is there anything clever before ... am I you?”, But I'm interested in the presence of the increase in armament in the displacement inherent in all VOLUME projects when modernizing and enforcing the principle of modularity. On this project, at first glance, I personally see the opportunity for 2 UKKS i.e. 16 Caliber as in Buyan-M and Dagestan. If so, it’s nice, in case of complication of the international situation. A UKKS producer would still cope with an emergency increase (mobilization) of the quantity of output. I’ll keep silent about the calibers themselves, because Naturally, the potential to raise output by an order should be in the plan.
    1. BV330
      BV330 4 January 2016 19: 13 New
      0
      IMHO all these boats are small under 2x8 UKKS. Normally 2 modules are only installed on 22350, and it is evident for a reason. ((
  13. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 28 December 2015 12: 51 New
    +1
    Russia has found a completely asymmetric answer to all Amer’s missile defense. These boats shoot through “Europe” through Europe (and the Middle East too) literally from the mooring wall. Therefore, it’s not necessary to swim far away from under the “umbrella” of coastal air defense and coastal anti-aircraft defense. In the order of humor, it would be possible to put a self-propelled barge with "Caliber" in the middle of Ladoga. laughing
    But the "Karakurt" is much prettier than a barge.
  14. Besmaster
    Besmaster 28 December 2015 13: 19 New
    +2
    I want to ask the naval people. Is it really effective to have only many small ships ?. If you mean not strikes in Syria with calibers, but a squadron battle involving submarines and aircraft ?. I am worried about our fleet - our ships are becoming smaller and smaller. Buyan-M and Karakurt are beautiful ships, but they would look very good next to frigates and destroyers. And when it comes to frigates, our shipyards do not want to please with good news. Admiral Grigorovich was built as if the dreadnought was coming out of the dock there, and Admiral Gorshkov could not be handed over at all, because unlike 11356 his project (22350) was new. The modernization of Admiral Nakhimov is bogged down and the deadlines go to the right time after time. While Sevmash pleases with the powerful and truly Soviet pace of submarine construction, everything is not so beautiful in the surface fleet. Moreover, the boats that Sevmash builds are large, and he rivets them wonderfully. If the remaining shipyards riveted frigates at the same speed, they would have already scored several dozen. So I want to ask people who are knowledgeable in shipbuilding - why is it technologically more difficult to build a surface ship (!) Than a submarine, that we rivet 15-20 thousand displacement boats, and 4 thousand displacement frigates. I want to understand this. So there are no minuses, I'm not an all-round proponent and I'm not a liberal.
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 28 December 2015 13: 41 New
      +1
      Building a hull is of course cheaper than a submarine cruiser. The problem is different — besides the hull, you need cars, electronic weapons, the weapon itself. But there are problems with this. Even the appearance of the new RTO shows the installation of old systems for БЧ-2, БЧ-7. Just they overwhelmed the building according to a new-fangled trend (stealth), changed their appearance a little, and 70 percent of the systems remained old. This whole situation reminds me of the 1930s (a series of watchdogs “Hurricane”).
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 28 December 2015 14: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: BesMaster
      Is it really effective to have only many small ships?

      Alexander, and who told you that the Russian Navy will consist only of small ships? At present, in the ranks of the 115 ships of the 1 and 2 ranks in the 4 fleet and one fleet? How to protect the sea borders in the near future? And RTOs are currently becoming the workhorse of the fleet.
      Quote: BesMaster
      If you mean not strikes on Syria with calibers, but a squadron battle involving submarines and aircraft?

      laughing In the near future Trafalgar, Jutland and Tsushima is not expected, this is not to go to the grandmother !!!
    3. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 28 December 2015 14: 05 New
      +3
      Quote: BesMaster
      Is it really effective to have only many small ships?

      How much? Do you have an opinion that there are a lot of them? This is a mistake, now the Navy and the Buyans have 16 RTGs, which is about half as much as the minimum needed. In the USSR, there were about fifty of them, not counting everything else, which was also practically gone, and the seas were fewer.
      When the "big ships" go to the ocean, someone must stay home and guard the coast, RTOs and corvettes are great for this.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 December 2015 15: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: BesMaster
      I want to ask the naval people. Is it really effective to have only many small ships ?.

      In the absence of an alternative to the fleet, you need to have at least something that carries “calibers”. For new ships of rank 1 and 2 until 2019-2020 will not have to wait.
      Quote: BesMaster
      And when it comes to frigates, our shipyards do not want to please with good news. Admiral Grigorovich was built as if the dreadnought was coming out of the dock there, and Admiral Gorshkov could not be handed over at all, because unlike 11356 his project (22350) was new.

      It's not about the project. The fact is that the final assembly and testing of the gas turbine engine for our ships was carried out by the Ukrainian Zorya-Mashproekt, one of the three world full-cycle gas turbine manufacturers (thanks to the USSR).
      There will be no domestic gas turbine engines before 2018. Accordingly, all ships with a gas turbine power plant froze on the stocks and at the walls.
      By the way, the Zelenodolsky 22160 also declared the GTE ...
      Quote: BesMaster
      While Sevmash pleases with the powerful and truly Soviet pace of submarine construction, everything is not so beautiful in the surface fleet. Moreover, the boats that Sevmash builds are large, and he rivets them wonderfully. If the remaining shipyards riveted frigates at the same speed, they would have already scored several dozen.

      As soon as there will be FR from the nuclear power plant, they will be immediately riveted with the speed of nuclear submarines. smile
      Alas, for ships we have either star-type diesel engines or nuclear power plants. And that’s it.

      All the construction of NK 1 and 2 ranks now rests precisely on the missing GEM.
      1. Besmaster
        Besmaster 28 December 2015 20: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA

        All the construction of NK 1 and 2 ranks now rests precisely on the missing GEM.

        In general, it is clear. However, this smells a lot of foolishness if, in the construction of ships, ours relied on engines manufactured in occupied territories. Even before 2014, counting on Ukrainian suppliers was simply crazy. His GEM had to be developed earlier. And now, having started development, we must wait until 2019.
        Quote: chunga-changa

        How much? Do you have an opinion that there are a lot of them? This is a mistake, now the Navy, along with the buoys, has 16 RTOs, which is about half as much as the minimum needed. There were about fifty of them in the USSR

        I didn’t put it that way. It was understood that they were not building anything else, the GEMs for frigates had just begun to be developed, sat out, destroyers are just a mystery. Therefore, even with my mind, I understand that an MRC with calibers is good, but somehow, for anti-aircraft and anti-submarine warfare, ships also need to be built to replace aging ones.
        Quote: Serg65
        Alexander, and who told you that the Russian Navy will consist only of small ships? At present, in the ranks of the 115 ships of the 1 and 2 ranks in the 4 fleet and one fleet? How to protect the sea borders in the near future? And RTOs are currently becoming the workhorse of the fleet.
        In the near future Trafalgar, Jutland and Tsushima is not expected, this is not to go to the grandmother !!!

        These 115 ships are on paper. Nowhere else. They stand at the berths and the state of the majority is not encouraging. In reality, ships of rank 1-2 are very few. The cruiser Moscow was driven into the tail and mane, they were going to put the ship on modernization, but because of Syria it had to stand in the Mediterranean Sea, because there was no one else to replace it with the Fort. Now Varyag is going to replace Moscow - from the Pacific Ocean. Fine. 115 ships after all.)). As for the trafalgar and other things - I do not share your irony. There is no other way for the Americans to reset the speculative economy, except for the new great depression and the subsequent next New Deal inseparable from World War II. And in the event of war, their carrier groups will be breaking to our shores along with multipurpose re-equipped submarines. To launch thousands of cruise missiles. And guests are supposed to meet the fleet of the home team, if there is anything. And this is a squadron battle - with destroyers for anti-aircraft defense of the group, with frigates for anti-submarine. I know that I am reasoning amateurly and tomatoes will fly into me)). Do not judge strictly.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 December 2015 10: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: BesMaster
          In general, it is clear. However, this smells a lot of foolishness if, in the construction of ships, ours relied on engines manufactured in occupied territories. Even before 2014, counting on Ukrainian suppliers was simply crazy.

          Well calculated. And the engines steadily arrived. That ship with the "Dawns" that aviation with the "Motor Sich."
          No one thought the xoxls "they will gouge out their own eyes so that the mother-in-law had a curve in-law"- after all, most of the components and systems for the Nikolaev gas-turbine engine were delivered from Russia.
          Quote: BesMaster
          And now, having started development, we must wait until 2019.

          It’s not a matter of development - it has been conducted on the same Saturn for about 10 years. The fact is that in Nikolaev there was the only test bench in the entire USSR for marine gas turbine engines, without which the Customer would not accept the engine. And now we are building such a stand.
          Quote: BesMaster
          The cruiser Moscow was driven into the tail and mane, they were going to put the ship on modernization, but because of Syria it had to stand in the Mediterranean Sea, because there was no one else to replace it with the Fort.

          Heh heh heh ... in the case of "Moscow" it was not in Syria, but again in the State Customs Committee. But not for her, but for the ship, which was to replace her at the post of the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.
          In theory, by the beginning of the Syrian events, Moscow should already have been on modernization - and instead of it the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet was supposed to be the Kerch BOD, the exit from the repair of which was planned for the end of 2014. But the BOD lost its fodder MO after the fire in November 2014. And there was nothing to replace the failed GTE.
          1. Besmaster
            Besmaster 29 December 2015 22: 22 New
            0
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Well calculated. And the engines steadily arrived. That ship with the "Dawns" that aviation with the "Motor Sich."
            No one thought the xoxls "they will gouge out their own eyes so that the mother-in-law had a curve in-law"- after all, most of the components and systems for the Nikolaev gas-turbine engine were delivered from Russia.
            It’s not a matter of development - it has been conducted on the same Saturn for about 10 years. The fact is that in Nikolaev there was the only test bench in the entire USSR for marine gas turbine engines, without which the Customer would not accept the engine. And now we are building such a stand.
            Heh heh heh ... in the case of "Moscow" it was not in Syria, but again in the State Customs Committee. But not for her, but for the ship, which was to replace her at the post of the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet.
            In theory, by the beginning of the Syrian events, Moscow should already have been on modernization - and instead of it the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet was supposed to be the Kerch BOD, the exit from the repair of which was planned for the end of 2014. But the BOD lost its fodder MO after the fire in November 2014. And there was nothing to replace the failed GTE.

            Thanks for clarifying. Now I understand more clearly the reasons for all these shifts in terms and the reason for the final decision to make a destroyer with a nuclear power plant (In this case, I believe that the problems with the gas turbine engine made the fleet a historic gift). We hope for Saturn to continue the saturation of the fleet with frigates and watchdogs, and for the speedy modernization of St. Petersburg shipyards to finally see the tab of the destroyer.
  15. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 28 December 2015 13: 35 New
    +2
    Stop looking for zrad where it doesn’t exist, what kind of Galicism it is.
    Zelenodolsk plant, after the delivery of the last "Buyan", according to plans, will be fully loaded the construction of a new corvette of project 22160, two of which have already been laid.
    But the problem of RTOs before the fleet remained, we need at least 12 more units, at least to replace the RTOs pr.1234. Obviously, in connection with the loading of the main manufacturer of RTOs, they decided to transfer their production to other shipyards. “Pella”, in general, has proven itself well earlier, so they apparently made a simplified project “Buyana” for it, which it will definitely master. The decision is quite reasonable, then everything depends on the availability of money from the state and the ability of shipbuilders.
    I think if the tests are successful, the series will be increased at least twice. The ship turned out to be extremely useful in the European part of the country and it seems that it is almost ideal for protecting the Far East.
  16. K-36
    K-36 28 December 2015 13: 38 New
    +3
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Russia has found a completely asymmetric answer to all Amer’s missile defense. These boats shoot through “Europe” through Europe (and the Middle East too) literally from the mooring wall. Therefore, it’s not necessary to swim far away from under the “umbrella” of coastal air defense and coastal anti-aircraft defense. In the order of humor, it would be possible to put a self-propelled barge with "Caliber" in the middle of Ladoga. laughing
    But the "Karakurt" is much prettier than a barge.

    You can, of course, use the barge, but you still need to build it (and the shipyard is already loaded with GOZs up to the neck). It’s easier to pick up a dozen trailers adapted for transporting sea containers. Put container Clabs on them and write out waybills 1) St. Petersburg - Novorossiysk (with a stop in Smolensk and Voronezh) and 2) St. Petersburg - Severodvinsk (for example). Type carry weapons to their ships laughing And what prevents during the threatened period manenko to turn off the track, put spacers, attach to the coordinates and wait for target designation and an order to start?
    And for all NATO and the OSCE "... well, we don’t have medium-range land missiles, no! See, on the container it is written "Marine" ). soldier
    Best regards hi
  17. UVB
    UVB 28 December 2015 16: 25 New
    +1
    In early July, Admiral Viktor Chirkov, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, said that in the foreseeable future, construction of new ships of project 22800 would be carried out, which should replace the existing frigates of project 11356.
    Is this a typo or an error of the author, I hope? Replacing 4000 with 800-tonnes, no matter how beautiful they are, is something wrong.
  18. Glad
    Glad 28 December 2015 22: 16 New
    0
    I read the comments on the article by the respected Kirill Ryabov and due to the fact that some colleagues believe that it is necessary to build ships in the ocean zone, I had a question. It is mainly addressed to those of the colleagues who are currently serving in the Navy.
    The question is: Do we have anyone to serve on the ships of the ocean zone? In the sense that there are experienced youth who can be trusted with such a technique.
    Question without subtext. It’s just interesting how we are with the personnel in the Navy now. Do youth go on a contract?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 29 December 2015 12: 00 New
      0
      Usually with a country's improving economic situation
      (and unemployment) go to the army willingly for a contract. (I say
      about any country. In the States in 2008-2009, they broke into the army).
      But if then the state runs out of money for
      salary to contract soldiers ... then big problems. sad
    2. 17085
      17085 21 January 2016 15: 26 New
      0
      First: google to help wink
      Secondly: civilian fleet officers in stock!
  19. Garris199
    Garris199 29 December 2015 01: 44 New
    0
    But what about project 22160? What does he not like?
  20. Termit1309
    Termit1309 29 December 2015 10: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: UVB
    UVB Yesterday, 16:25
    In early July, Admiral Viktor Chirkov, Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, said that in the foreseeable future, construction of new ships of project 22800 will be carried out, which should replace the existing frigates of project 11356. Is this a typo or an author’s mistake, I hope? Replacing 4000 with 800-tonnes, no matter how beautiful they are, is something wrong.

    RTO 22800 will be built instead of frigates 11356. That is, the construction of frigates will be temporarily frozen and RTOs will be built on the slipways instead of them. They will replace frigates not at sea, but simply in line at the slipway. (Damn, it’s even simpler? Well, you decided to drink cognac and only beer in the store. And you decided to drink beer and I’ll drink cognac tomorrow. This does not mean that you will drink beer for the rest of your life. Cognac (GTE) will appear frigates) But while there are no turbines in CONSTRUCTION they will be replaced by RTOs)
  21. wicked pinnochio
    wicked pinnochio 29 December 2015 19: 08 New
    0
    karakurt is a poisonous spider from the genus of black widows
  22. Glad
    Glad 29 December 2015 21: 42 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Usually with a country's improving economic situation
    (and unemployment) go to the army willingly for a contract. (I say
    about any country. In the States in 2008-2009, they broke into the army).
    But if then the state runs out of money for
    salary to contract soldiers ... then big problems. sad

    In the modern economy, the salaries of contractors are not the same money. Offhand 100-150 million dollars a month, if we assume that all the contractors are officers.
    It’s not about money, but moral and moral motivation ...
  23. Old26
    Old26 30 December 2015 00: 23 New
    0
    Quote: remy
    in the photo the same DBK Bastion only other glasses with missiles

    This is not a "Bastion", namely, the coastal complex "Caliber"

    Quote: agfa
    On this project, at first glance, I personally see the opportunity for 2 UKKS i.e. 16 Caliber as in Buyan-M and Dagestan.

    I wonder where did you see the place for the second UKKS? On the larger “Buyan-M” (150 tons more displacement) and on the even larger “Dagestan” (with twice as much displacement)ONE UKKS, and you at "Karakurt" were able to "see" the possibility of installing as much TWO UKKS. And by the way, where did you see 16 missiles on the Buyan-M and Dagestan ???
    Of course, I understand that Wishlist is sacred ....

    Quote: antaeus
    Perhaps Caliber-NK will fit very well with the Escander glass)

    Very well suited. especially if you take a hacksaw and a meter and a half to shorten the "Caliber"

    Quote: cobalt
    And if this mosquito fleet is strengthened by naval strike aircraft (the same SU 34) and coastal missile systems, which is also not very costly, then in 5-10 years we will be able to defeat any invasion fleet in our territorial waters.

    AND??? There was such an admiral in the USSR. Amelko. He was a fanatical supporter of the coastal (mosquito) fleet. But history has shown that if a country wants to be something of itself, and not be a mediocre regional power, it should have an ocean fleet. In territorial waters, we may not be equal with such weapon systems, but beyond.
  24. Old26
    Old26 30 December 2015 00: 25 New
    0
    Quote: over
    For not having more, start small! These ships will be able to navigate in large numbers with refueling in the seas and oceans, performing strategic tasks, and in the company with Severodvinsk and Nakhimov, any fleet in the world will give way.

    Likely you will increase autonomy by order of magnitude, prohibit storms, and, with a wave of your hand, build an auxiliary fleet, and also prohibit the enemy from taking any actions ... Then yes, they will give way. Especially some fleet of Gabon or Somalia ... But what about, for example, the AUS of the same USA?

    Quote: aszzz888
    Why send RTOs there. They will get it from their pier.

    Where to get it?

    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Russia has found a completely asymmetric answer to all Amer’s missile defense. These boats shoot through “Europe” through Europe (and the Middle East too) literally from the mooring wall. Therefore, it’s not necessary to swim far away from under the “umbrella” of coastal air defense and coastal anti-aircraft defense. In the order of humor, it would be possible to put a self-propelled barge with "Caliber" in the middle of Ladoga. laughing
    But the "Karakurt" is much prettier than a barge.

    I’m becoming more and more convinced that without PR and advertising in the media, any event is zero ... I take off my hat to those who are conducting this PR campaign. The Agitation and Propaganda Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU nervously smokes on the sidelines. Bravo. To create such a trend and so hammer this, in general, an ordinary event for the same USA, the brains of their own people, that it begins alreadyИferry with only one mention of "Caliber" or "Sarmatian". Turns off the head completely, acts solely on emotions. At the same time, cards with circles appear, and self-conceit begins to grow rapidly, to a hypertrophied state. And we are ready to break everyone and everything. Without thinking about the realities ....