The Russian army again does not have time to be modern

62
For some reason, few people are very surprised by the alarm of an “independent military review” about modern anti-tank missile systems.
The newspaper "NVO" drew attention to the depressing pattern in the field of anti-tank defense. What happens in reality, try to understand this article.

It so happened that the military department of the Russian Federation missed one aspect of development in the field of defense weapons - anti-tank missiles. The world has long acquired new systems and complexes in this area that provide contactless solutions for defense and attack.

Yes, we have something to fight against the potential armor of a potential enemy, helicopters included in the armament program before the 2020 of the year - Ka-52 and Mi-28H. But the 2-generation VTRV-M and “Attack” ATGMs by the year 2020 will drastically lag behind the third-generation ATGMs of foreign helicopters. Domestic anti-tank systems, launched into mass production in 90, they already require modernization and improvement.
The situation is approximately the same in tank troops, if quite recently the Chief of the General Staff N. Makarov criticized the T-90, what can we say about the basis of the tank forces - the T-72.

The Russian army again does not have time to be modern


It is clear that the statement of the Western media that the NATO troops have worked out the technology for the defeat of domestic tanks should not be taken as truth, but they have enough reason for such statements.

ATGMs that are in service with Russian tanks were designed to destroy the Abrams-М1 and Abrams-М1А1 US tanks twenty years ago. And over the past 20 years, the protection of tanks has increased so much that even a few direct hits from existing anti-tank systems do not guarantee the destruction of foreign tanks.

The chief of the General Staff stated openly that with the money that goes to purchase the T-90, it is easier to acquire foreign Leopards, again, then talking about the T-72.
Yes, domestic developments in this area are progressing successfully, but, unfortunately, they are not and most likely will not be in the weapons program, since it has already been approved and is working.

The NVO newspaper also draws attention to the changing nature of military operations. Virtually all recent military conflicts are non-contact, weapons are used by self-propelled vehicles or used from long distances to destroy enemy armored vehicles. Under these conditions, it is not clear how our military justified the use of morally aging anti-tank systems and their ability to stand up to modern armaments of foreign countries on equal terms.

Recall that all domestic ATGM, both helicopter and ground, will not be able to overcome the bar to defeat the enemy more than 15 kilometers.

The UK is actively working to modernize the 3 generation Brimstone ATGM to increase the range of destruction. The ATGM is equipped with a rocket with an active radar homing head, a digital autopilot, an inertial guidance system, a tandem warhead that penetrates 1200 mm armor, and a missile range of about ten kilometers.

The United States already has an X-NUMX JAGM, the destruction range is 3 kilometers, and when it is fired by a rocket from an aircraft, the range increases to 16 kilometers.



At this time, domestic ATGMs belong to the 2 generation, except perhaps Chrysanthemums, but its experts do not belong to the third generation, rather to the intermediate generation 2 +.

Today’s anti-tank systems and anti-tank guided missiles do not cope with modern foreign dynamic defense, and tandem neutralizes the combat units of modern domestic missiles to destroy enemy armored vehicles, and the absence of anti-tank systems with long-range and inaction in this area will make itself felt in the near future.
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  1. Ice
    Ice
    +7
    28 November 2011 10: 13
    Oh, I see,
    even Jewellin is very likely to disable any equipment when attacking from above.
    And the pturs on their helicopters do it even from afar.

    And we’ll come up with RPGs, and even then you won’t be able to do it once.
    Unless the city can be used.
    1. +13
      28 November 2011 10: 36
      Quote: Ice
      And we’ll come up with RPGs, and even then you won’t be able to do it once.


      “Attack-B” with radio command guidance of increased noise immunity, which has a number of advantages over laser - works in smoke, dust, heavy fog; range - up to 8 km; the missile strikes and air targets. A new ATAKA-D ATGM with an increased range of up to 10 km was developed for the Okhotnik: the new equipment of the vehicle provides the search for point targets at such a distance. Penetration of these missiles - up to 1000 mm for dynamic protection from any angle.
      1. Ice
        Ice
        +1
        28 November 2011 13: 48
        Well, the article says that by 2020 ...
        and with Ataka-D - is it already being put somewhere, where, how much is it planned to put?
        sort of like up to 10 and 16 km - like the difference,
        although yes, in the forest it doesn’t matter :)

        Do we have an analog of portable Javelin?

        For our RPGs are all about increasing armor penetration,
        and here it’s just amazing from above, no matter what the armor, and a good sight.
        Well, yes it’s more expensive, but the percentage of fertility is high.
        1. Artemka
          -12
          28 November 2011 14: 13
          What difference does it strike or not. The cost of one rocket is 80 thousand dollars. Yes, they will go bankrupt armored armada of Russia to smash.
          1. Ice
            Ice
            +2
            28 November 2011 14: 43
            What's this ...
            Brimstone in general - 175 thousand pounds,
            and how much does a tank cost 2-3 million bucks?
          2. +7
            28 November 2011 23: 43
            Quote: Artemka
            What difference does it strike or not. The cost of one rocket is 80 thousand dollars. Yes, they will go bankrupt armored Russian armies

            and the difference is mu..lo in soldier's lives! angry
            1. The comment was deleted.
          3. -1
            29 November 2011 12: 42
            there’s been no tank armada for a long time - we’ve cut it for scrap .. so it won’t go broke ...
          4. 0
            13 January 2012 09: 16
            But one tank, hit by such a missile, costs millions of dollars
      2. -1
        29 November 2011 14: 08
        I do not agree at the root !!!! attack rockets are outdated and that's a fact

        there is HERMES but therefore they put the attack
        at the interpolitech I went to the stand Russian Helicopters and talked heart to heart with people !!!!
        so these people were blaming the ATTACK HOW COULD AND PRAISE HERMES (IN order not to lag behind the WEST)
        BUT OUR LOBBIES FROM THE MIC DO NOT NEED TO INTRODUCE NEW SAMPLES WHEN THERE IS A RELAXED OLD !!!! ONLY WHEN THE USA WILL HAVE LARGE-SICK ROCKETS OF 3 GENERATIONS, WILL BE REACHED ALREADY LATE
  2. dred
    +9
    28 November 2011 10: 47
    what do you think we have ATGM is not like a mestizo fuggot competition.
    1. +13
      28 November 2011 13: 33
      The USA already has the 3rd generation JAGM, the range of 16 kilometers,

      Well, if you fight in the desert where they climb, then yes, and the forest-mountains? There is more likely a helicopter victim of MANPADS than a hunter
  3. J_silver
    +6
    28 November 2011 11: 48
    In fact, there are significant lags in many areas, although it would be strange. if everything was normal in the context of flagrant neglect of their own army and military-industrial complex by the country's leadership, with the exception of the election campaigns ...
    The source is worrying - the newspaper NVO, which has never been distinguished by patriotic moods ... There is no signature for the article in NVO, but it’s easy to guess who the likely author is - we won’t point a finger so as not to get scolded ...
    One of the author is regularly poked into the done, blamed, written, but the character still does not appease - probably, after all. there is a more powerful and influential customer, even than NG ...
    1. +1
      28 November 2011 13: 07
      I support that the article is another throw-up de..ma before the election
  4. MKALEKSEY
    +9
    28 November 2011 13: 46
    It would be nice for the author to go to the official website of the Tula KBP (http://kbptula.ru/) and get acquainted with new developments in the field of guided weapon systems - for example, the Hermes complex: this product exists in 3 versions - sea-based, land-based ( in the form of a mobile complex) - both with a range of up to 100 km, and the aviation version, by the way, just mainly for helicopters, with a range of up to 20 km. Guidance in the output area to the target area is radio command, in the final section, homing. The complex is all-weather and fully automated. . The defeat of targets behind dynamic defense is provided. So what is Russia's lagging behind?
    1. Serush
      +15
      28 November 2011 14: 25
      The fact that all of the above can be seen on the website of the Tula Design Bureau, and they have in the troops.
      1. Motherland
        +1
        28 November 2011 20: 44
        Here is what you compare then? A power that barely creeps out of the abyss, and those who can print money in unlimited quantities?
        1. Serush
          +1
          28 November 2011 21: 34
          If we seek excuses for ourselves, they will push us back into this abyss, forever ...
        2. -4
          29 November 2011 12: 44
          Does it creep out? ...
      2. 0
        13 January 2012 09: 19
        Yeah, right! When will these ATGMs appear in the hands of our military?
    2. Camyrai
      0
      28 November 2011 22: 57
      There is a note on Hermes in the original article
    3. +1
      29 November 2011 10: 26
      MKALEKSEY, I climbed and asked. Fancy thingy! So what about the amer and their cockerels? wink Machine - nowhere more serious!
  5. denis29_82
    +7
    28 November 2011 13: 53
    So much rubbish in one article. Some kind of pulling the elastic on the globe. And why don’t you write for grandmother ...
    1. +1
      28 November 2011 19: 57
      Quote: denis29_82
      . And why don’t you write for grandmother ...


      Roman Andreevich Dzherelyiko earns precisely that
  6. +4
    28 November 2011 15: 46
    Quote: Vadivak
    Well, if you fight in the desert where they climb, then yes, and the forest-mountains? There is more likely a helicopter victim of MANPADS than a hunter

    I agree. A desert is a desert and mountains, a forest - is quite another. You will see a person in the desert for many kilometers in the thermal imager, and I doubt it in the forest or mountains.
    One of the best allies of the partisans is the forest.


    Although we have a gap in anti-tank defense - but there is everything to answer. Yes, these are outdated models, but there will be no choice if something happens.
    1. Motherland
      +3
      29 November 2011 13: 30
      And those models will destroy quite a few tanks.
  7. Ice
    Ice
    +1
    28 November 2011 16: 47
    And then there’s such a thing,
    if the system is too complicated, who can use it?
    unless the officers, and even then, will not be able to do without training, and training is expensive ...

    whether it’s an RPG business, one can learn how to do conscripts, and even then not immediately.
  8. Alexandr_K
    -7
    28 November 2011 17: 38
    Quote: Artemka
    What difference does it strike or not. The cost of one rocket is 80 thousand dollars. Yes, they will go bankrupt armored armada of Russia to smash.

    Armored Russian armada gathered to wash the tracks in the English Channel? In order to prevent this, no money is not a pity.
  9. n key
    +2
    28 November 2011 18: 55
    yeah, you’ll be the tankers in these matchboxes, I’m just wondering why everyone here speaks from the height of strategists, it’s clear that if something doesn’t get into the tank, ordinary people and I don’t know, of course, but I personally would be more pleased to know that I have a tank that can at least withstand a couple of hits so that I can stay alive. That's all the Jews, and after all they were the first to say that human life is more expensive than iron, when we understand this, then we will be a superpower and for now, we are at the second level we stand by the world, everyone is trying to take in quantity. This is very depressing of course.
    1. Ice
      Ice
      0
      28 November 2011 19: 44
      From 16 km, those who are in the tank will not even understand what happened ...

      You can hang 4 suspensions of 3 missiles on a plane - theoretically, just enough for a company ... well, actually 6 tanks.
      1. +6
        28 November 2011 20: 01
        Quote: Ice
        From 16 km, those who are in the tank will not even understand what happened ...


        Did the tanks go for a walk? without air defense cover? Why do you think "Shilki", "Tunguska", "Pantsiri" and other "Buki" and "Wasps" were created to scare the crows?
        1. Ice
          Ice
          -2
          29 November 2011 09: 08
          Well, you can first suppress the air defense ...
          1. Stealth
            0
            2 March 2012 01: 53
            So it may still not be able to crush ...
  10. n key
    +2
    28 November 2011 20: 22
    as it were, there is air defense for airplanes, but if we speak, that is, systems that fool missiles that they put on tanks.
    1. Ice
      Ice
      -2
      29 November 2011 09: 08
      Tell me more about such systems?
      1. Stealth
        +1
        2 March 2012 01: 52
        Curtain, Arena and a whole bunch of workflow on this topic
  11. VALENOK
    -9
    28 November 2011 20: 23
    And what about the fact that we have the most secret and strongest weapons, these are our 18-19 year old soldiers who in the end throw all their enemies with caps.
    1. +4
      28 November 2011 20: 31
      Quote: VALENOK
      the most secret and powerful weapon is our 18-19 year old soldiers


      There will be a war and we will have to rise to the non-conscript .....
      1. VALENOK
        -4
        28 November 2011 20: 38
        You are right, the young will be beaten first, and we old people will sit at their desks in order to master new modern equipment, if we have time of course.
        1. +2
          28 November 2011 22: 24
          Quote: VALENOK
          if we have time of course.


          Succeed, in capable hands and horseradish balalaika
  12. +2
    28 November 2011 20: 48
    We will succeed if it will be necessary! Once upon a time it was with our grandfathers and great-grandfathers! For them, too, then some was new!
  13. +1
    28 November 2011 21: 02
    VALENOK,
    Vadivak,
    potterz,
    will learn. It is unlikely that, of course, they would teach us how to fight properly in training, but still we hope.
    Victory or death.
  14. Strelez
    +6
    28 November 2011 21: 24
    Backlog is not scary, scary. the complete collapse of science and the military-industrial complex, NEW SAMPLES are not created as quickly as we would like, but there is movement, Equally important is the rearmament of the army. As it was rightly said here, new items can only be seen at exhibitions and on developers' websites.
    1. Ice
      Ice
      -1
      29 November 2011 09: 14
      And everyone noticed it,
      what before the development of new technology took less time?

      Well, like a couple of years on new equipment during World War 2,
      and 10-20 years now.

      I mean, if something happens, it’s not possible to develop a new technique,
      it will only be possible to implement what is developed now.
  15. +3
    28 November 2011 22: 05
    Dimka off * Victory or death. * Big +

    Strelez It's not even that scary! And the fact that we ourselves are falling apart from the inside! The Indians are just glad of it! You need to be friends (as once!) And respect each other. to be a united people! Then we will be invincible! (IMHO)
  16. Cardamom
    +2
    28 November 2011 23: 40
    For a war with whom the "old men" decided to prepare, I wonder?) If with America, then all preparation will be in the study of the prayer "Our Father", which will have to be read in half an hour that their "minute man" flies to us, and our "poplar" there, and they will not teach it ... because almost everyone already knows!) Many people go to church every Sunday.
    In general, to be serious, our ATGMs were always one step ahead, but at a certain moment, the process stopped, or rather went to paper, and foreign aircraft builders continued to develop. As a result, an anti-tandem DZ appeared on our tandem warhead. Indicative in this respect is the so-called "second Lebanese war", in which the notorious "merkava" of different years of issue took part. "Fatalities by tank type:
    “Merkava” MK.2 - 10 in 3 tanks (4 + 2 + 4);
    Merkava MK.3 - 9 in 4 tanks (3 + 1 + 4 + 1);
    Merkava MK.4 - 11 in 6 tanks (1 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 4).
    Note: considering the cases of damaged tanks with dead crew members, you can see that the "Merkava" Mk.4 showed the highest chances of survival for the crews in case of defeat. Their crew losses were 1.8 people per tank, while the Merkava Mk.3 had 2.25, and the Merkava Mk.2 - 3.3. "
    That is, the more modern the protection of the tank, the worse the ATGMs (including ours) cope. Moreover, as far as is known from the sources, the "Merkava-4" was beaten selectively with the "Cornets". Now the "Merkava" is equipped with the "Meil Ruach" ("Windbreaker") active anti-missile defense system, created by the RAPHAEL concern. If our gentlemen in the Ministry of Defense continue to implement projects "on the site", we can finally remain unarmed in front of the tanks of a potential enemy!
    1. BYRY
      -6
      29 November 2011 00: 54
      But I hope that Merkava will not be on the fields of our battles.
      1. Cardamom
        0
        29 November 2011 08: 04
        Most likely, there will be no "merkava", but what is important is that the development of technologies does not stand still, it is possible that soon the same will appear at NATO.
    2. Stealth
      0
      2 March 2012 01: 55
      And you believe more Israeli data on losses))
  17. Odessa
    +5
    29 November 2011 01: 06
    All this is true - yes, all this is correct - yes. This is on the one hand. But .... The Americans plan to put the 3rd generation "JAGM" UR into service already in 2017. This is time. Next. Our The generals assure that the equivalent of the T-90 armor is up to 1350 mm. What is the armor penetration of 1200 mm for the "Brimstone"? Although the "feed from above" and bo-bo, i.e. kaput.And what about the Arenas and all sorts of curtains there?
    Well, just in case. To hit a target like a tank, it is not necessary to break through its armor. To defeat the crew, systems, immobilization, etc. it can also come from a strong dynamic impact, etc., if it hits the target directly. The battle is to remove the tank from battle. The primary is to immobilize. But there are quite a lot of cases when the tank’s armor was pierced, but the car was combat-ready and continued to maintain active databases. Although this does not mean that I'm trying to justify some of our outdated ATGMs, etc. .. I just want more objectivity, not just sweeping criticism.
  18. wk
    -5
    29 November 2011 02: 42
    the best anti-tank is another tank, even if the t90 or t 80 are not the best, but the mass production will be the solution
    1. Galina
      +3
      29 November 2011 03: 11
      And the mass production of tankers? And they are less and less.
    2. Ice
      Ice
      -1
      29 November 2011 09: 16
      I think tank wars are rare now,
      and massiveness will not help to surpass manufacturability.
  19. 0
    29 November 2011 13: 30
    T-90 in the version of the air-ground complex: ROCK, UAV, etc.
  20. +1
    29 November 2011 16: 03
    Quote: KardamoN
    You can finally remain unarmed in front of the tanks of a potential enemy!

    Yes, I don’t care with what weapons we will be. Most likely, there will be a situation similar to 41 years. I don’t care how many they will have, what weapons they will have - tanks, planes, rockets, etc. I know one thing - I and my compatriots will have no choice to go or not to go into battle for the Fatherland. Go and definitely go! You won’t be able to sit out somewhere in the dugout - a glorious death is better than a shame until the end of your miserable traitorous days. Maybe someone will find these words pathetic, but it is.
    as the song says:
    .... and from the copulation to the stars, a white army rises,
    here, on the home side, we die ...
    1. Cardamom
      +4
      29 November 2011 21: 41
      Do not be so nervous, everyone will go to defend their homeland! Just on a bare pathos, we will not go far. The conversation that the superiority of our weapons will help simply prevent a possible attack, because only a glorious and dignified life and work for the good of Russia can be better than a glorious death!
      Or what, "rifle and five rounds" again?
      We are the richest country with the world's best "brains" deserve to have the most equipped army in the world!
  21. n key
    -1
    29 November 2011 16: 12
    Of course, the words are pompous and correct, only my life is the same and I don’t know what is there, therefore I am not eager to heroize and bravely die for our worthless politicians and rich people.
    1. +1
      29 November 2011 19: 54
      who for whom. I personally think the first thing that comes is my family, loved ones, my land. And those rats that are upstairs will immediately jump off if that happens.
  22. 0
    29 November 2011 17: 04
    Blizzard is all this, what kind of war, with whom? Conflicts like the Georgian one will we take out anyway, and playing with tanks more seriously is stupid, not the distances and scales. I think that they understand above and are trying to develop other types of weapons, space is the future of all wars.
  23. Insurgent
    0
    29 November 2011 22: 45
    but what about ptrk hermes with a radius of 25km?
  24. 0
    29 November 2011 22: 57
    Succeeds, only it takes time, money and will ...
  25. n key
    0
    30 November 2011 17: 29
    yes this, ours makes the equipment no worse than the western one, only the number that is bought into the troops is negligible, I was always amused by the fact that T90 and Abrams are compared, what is the point of comparing them if we have 400-500 pieces and they have 5000, this is also what to say about the Second World War and say that the Germans have a mouse that is cooler than all the other tanks of this war, it is cooler then it is cooler, only it was only 1.
    1. Green every
      0
      1 February 2012 16: 25
      there were 10. 2 in the army, and the rest were unfinished. Well that's so a minor amendment wink
  26. +1
    2 December 2011 11: 21
    Any material created from quoting idiots "The Chief of the General Staff openly stated that the money spent on the purchase of the T-90 makes it easier to acquire foreign Leopards," perceived as incompetent coping.
    As a counter argument, cases of the destruction of the Abrams from RPG-7 and heavy machine guns can be given. And the conclusions on the armor resistance of the T-90 and T-72 of the latest modifications (the materials were here on the site). And also an article with the report of the participant in the war in Chechnya, with examples on the reliability and armor resistance of MBTs. So of course we cannot spend money on defense in such quantities as the USA and not everything is perfect with us, but we also have something to oppose to their technology . And even more so, this is not a reason to blame for not the worst weapon. Need better, I agree. What is - g.av.n.s.o categorically not.
  27. russia_vp
    0
    26 February 2012 17: 13
    We have the Tornado MLRS, which can successfully hit tank columns at a distance of 20-90 km. One installation - 8,5 square km of the affected area.
  28. russia_vp
    0
    26 February 2012 17: 56
    “Beat the enemy not with number, but with skill” Suvorov