Military Review

Self-loading smooth-bore gun MP-155K from the concern "Kalashnikov"

77
At the end of 2014, the Kalashnikov Concern introduced a restyled version of its MP-155 model in the K version to the Russian market, giving this self-loading smooth-bore gun the aggressive features of modern weaponsin service with the armies of the world. Self-loading rifles are produced in Izhevsk under the brand name Baikal. For Baikal MP-155, the basic basic structural elements of the weapon, the gas engine, the locking mechanism, and the adjustment of the automation motor impulse remained similar to the basic model of the gun, the MP-155.


A distinctive feature of the updated gun was its appearance, made in the style of "Military." The self-loading smooth-bore shotgun with the box magazine MP-155K was a further development of the series of smooth-bore guns of the Izhevsk mechanical plant. This weapon has a very wide range of applications: for hunting, sports shooting, self-defense, law enforcement. The 12 caliber rifle was specially created on the basis of the very popular self-loading hunting rifle MP-155 chambered for 12 / 76 and quite reliably used with the entire range of 12 caliber cartridges on the market - from 12 / 70 to 12 / 76.



The Baikal MP-155K self-loading smooth-bore rifle was originally designed to meet the needs and tastes of the younger, more modern generation of Russian shooters with regard to sports, hunting and possible self-defense. The layout of this shotgun makes it quite suitable for a large number of other professional applications, ranging from self-defense and ending with the protection of law and order. The authors of the resource all4shooters.com believe that Baikal MP-155K in Izhevsk was conceived as a weapon to create competition with some tactical-style shotgun models, shotguns with a store supply system from a young Turkish manufacturer, such as Uzkon BR-99 "Barak" , Eksen MKA-1919 and many other similar models.

Currently, the Baikal MP-155K rifle can be viewed as a “tactical version” of the working system, which was used in the time-tested and reliable classical Izhevsk Baikal MP-153 and MP-155 hunting rifles. At the same time, the MP-155K self-loading smooth-bore gun was built on the basis of a self-regulating gas-operated automatics with an annular gas piston located under the barrel of the weapon (around the magazine tube).



The venting automatics are self-regulating to provide the necessary level of reliability with any kind of shot (in terms of objectives and concept, the gun resembles the Benelli ARGO system, which is used on the M4 "Super 90" shotgun, also known as M1014 JSCS). In this case, with an incomplete disassembly of the gun, you can make a manual adjustment in order to optimize the effectiveness of the weapon for heavier or lighter fraction shells. The shotgun of a Baikal MP-155K smoothbore gun is mounted on a separate base, while the shotgun received a slide delay that locks the bolt in the rear position if there are no cartridges in the magazine. The barrel is locked by a swinging grub, which is located in the gate and engages with the stem shank, which was equipped with a system of interchangeable chokes or choke.

The receiver box of the Baikal MP-155K self-loading smooth bore gun is essentially the same as the base shotgun of the previous MP-155 hunting shotgun. Its upper part was made of black anodized aluminum alloy, it is installed on the lower part, which is made of reinforced polymer, also black, which includes a fixed butt and a pistol grip, as well as a fully removable trigger - trigger mechanism. The butt and pistol grip are made of modern high impact polymer, which is able to provide the necessary level of strength and allows to reduce the weight of the gun, which does not exceed 3,5-3,6 kg without cartridges. On the lid of the tube of the store and the butt there are unshirts. The Baikal MP-155K self-loading smooth bore gun's ventilated forearm is also made of polymer and protects most of the barrel of a stainless steel weapon. The shotgun barrel itself was initially tested for ammunition with steel shot and high pressure. Removable / replaceable chokes are available. With shotgun compatible chokes: C, IC, M, IM, F and XF. In a smooth-bore weapon, chokes are called choke (or a bell), which is necessary to reduce or, on the contrary, increase the dispersion of a shot at the moment of shot from a shotgun.



With the MP-155K shotgun, box magazines designed for 5 cartridges are used. They are equally well suited for cartridges with a sleeve length of 70 mm, and for cartridges with a sleeve length of 76 mm. The flat-shaped shutter release lever is located on the trigger guard, the shooter can easily reach it with his index finger for faster reloading of the weapon. The trigger type USM was designed as a separate, removable unit that is mounted inside the box casing. The trigger mechanism is equipped with a non-automatic safety device that blocks the trigger, there is also a slide latch, which is designed to stop the moving parts of the weapon in the rear position after all the cartridges in the magazine are used up.

Izhevsk smooth-bore gun MP-155K has an open sight with adjustable horizontally and a front sight, which is adjustable vertically. In this case the gun has two positions: with a diopter and an open type of sight. The sight is mounted on a carrying handle and strongly resembles those used on carbines and AR-15 rifles and their numerous derivatives. The rear of a smooth-bore shotgun is built into a removable carrying handle, which itself is placed on the Picatinny-level MIL-STD-1913. This allows the shooter, if desired, to change the sight, replacing it with any optical or even optical-electronic guidance system that is currently available on the Russian arms market.



Currently, the gun MP-155K offers a variety of applications. The weapon is available for commercial sales in Russia at a fairly competitive price. According to the recommended retail price on the manufacturer's website, the weapon should cost 21176 rubles at retail. Currently, buyers are available pre-order. At the same time, due to the sanctions against Russia, the Baikal MP-155K autoloading smooth-bore gun is not available for some foreign buyers.

Information sources:
http://kalashnikovconcern.ru/baikal/products/hunting-firearms/MR-155K.html
http://tdbaikal.ru/about/news/Новое_самозарядное_ружье_МР-155К
http://www.ordvor.com/news/589
https://www.all4shooters.com/ru/strelba/ruzhya/2015-novosti/Kontsern-Kalashnikov-Baikal-MR-155K-samozaryadnyy-drobovik
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  1. radogost
    radogost 7 December 2015 06: 55
    -3
    Handsome, oh handsome)
    1. vkl-47
      vkl-47 7 December 2015 13: 07
      +9
      Yes, well ... what a karyavyy it is. Saiga and then shows off
    2. Nosgoth
      Nosgoth 9 December 2015 18: 17
      0
      For me, so rare freak
    3. The comment was deleted.
  2. Wolka
    Wolka 7 December 2015 06: 56
    +2
    this is no longer "called" hunting but ...
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 7 December 2015 08: 04
      10
      Quote: Volka
      this is no longer "called" hunting but ...

      It was not created for hunting, but for post-shootings. In general, the idea is interesting and the design is unusual, I think there will be fans. I own MP-155.

      The gas exhaust automation of the novelty is self-regulating in order to provide the necessary level of reliability with any kind of fraction

      It's not about the "types of shot", but the energy of the cartridge.

      allows you to reduce the weight of the gun, which does not exceed 3,5-3,6 kg without cartridges.

      Too much, my MP-155 weighs 3,05 kg without cartridges and shoulder straps.

      while the shotgun received a slide delay, which fixes the shutter in the rear position

      Actually, there is such an option in the base MP-155.
      1. Siberia 9444
        Siberia 9444 7 December 2015 14: 28
        +4
        Today I watched MP155 Rusich on wood made better than 155 but this is by the way and this model I think is designed to export a certain m16 or m 4 hammer is much steeper and the mechanism looks easier than mr (153 with the butt of Monte Carlo on 8 rounds)
  3. Alexdark
    Alexdark 7 December 2015 06: 57
    +7
    The design reminds me of something ...
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 7 December 2015 07: 20
      +4
      Quote: AlexDARK
      The design reminds me of something ...

      Yes, I was directly surprised to see this :-)
    2. engineer74
      engineer74 7 December 2015 08: 56
      +4
      At first I thought that the M-4 brazenly licked! (It's time to answer the evil copy-paste of AK and RPG!) wink It turned out only the design ... crying
      (I know that our attitude towards M-16 is "ambiguous", but as a commercial product it will pull.)
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 7 December 2015 16: 21
        +1
        Quote: engineer74
        At first I thought that the M-4 brazenly licked
      2. would
        would 7 December 2015 18: 00
        0
        (It’s time to answer the evil copy-paste of AK and RPG


        For a relatively long time. Here from the "hammer" Vepr-15 VPO 140





        Here from ORSIS

        AR-10 National Match



        Orsis M-15 Carbine



        Rifles on the AR-15 platform in general, in my opinion, are collected in almost all developed countries.
        1. the47th
          the47th 7 December 2015 20: 54
          0
          Quote: rait
          Here from the "hammer" Vepr-15 VPO 140

          This miracle costs 70-80 thousand. For comparison: opikatinny, with a butt of the "M4" type, anatomical handle VPO-125 Sport from the same VPMZ costs about 40 thousand.
          1. would
            would 8 December 2015 15: 40
            0
            So all the salt is that it is AR, and VPO-125 AK. Different prices, different characteristics. Prof. arrows, by the way, use AR very much.
            1. the47th
              the47th 8 December 2015 22: 19
              +1
              In my opinion, AR is used due to the abundance of high-quality custom and high-quality tuning. On AK such things are much less.
              1. would
                would 8 December 2015 23: 17
                0
                As well as qualitatively different performance characteristics including accuracy and accuracy.

                On AK such things are much less.


                Here you are mistaken and very much. AK the most common platform for assault rifles and tuning for it make a huge amount in a heap and a heap of countries, a bunch of companies. Custom in our conditions is not relevant, alas, but we don’t have one that would have 1000 and one company where you come and they will collect your own custom for sane money. To put it mildly, it is not as common as in the USA.
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 7 December 2015 16: 20
      0
      Quote: AlexDARK
      The design reminds me of something ...
  4. Kazakh
    Kazakh 7 December 2015 07: 16
    15
    Wretched looks like all repeaters.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 10: 38
      +2
      Quote: Kazakh
      Wretched looks like all repeaters.

      Looking purely at the photo, I thought that again the Chinese are annealing. But no, now we also have something to answer to "an iPhone with Android 4.1" - our own smooth-bore M-16 :)
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 7 December 2015 22: 05
      0
      Quote: Kazakh
      Wretched looks like all repeaters.

      In vain you are so and worthy "repeats" for example modernization and revision of the machine gun "Maxim", many have surpassed the original.
  5. qwert
    qwert 7 December 2015 07: 21
    +4
    Quote: Kazakh
    Wretched looks like all repeaters.

    Duc, and did for fun, based on the fans of M16. Marketing move. Moreover, many goons on expensive foreign cars are sure that everything American is definitely better than Russian. I think that the price should be set based on the potential buyer - redneck
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 10: 43
      +4
      Quote: qwert
      Duc, and did for fun, calculated on the fans of M16

      We need to go even further and release customization kits so that the forend, butt and other gadgets can be screwed on there to taste. So that at once it was possible at least an M-16, at least a PKM, at least a "Minigun" to be built from a poor MRK :)
    2. Hon
      Hon 7 December 2015 11: 29
      +2
      Quote: qwert
      Duc, and did for fun, based on the fans of M16. Marketing move. Moreover, many goons on expensive foreign cars are sure that everything American is definitely better than Russian. I think that the price should be set based on the potential buyer - redneck

      Well, actually for the civilian arms market, we have few suitable products, everything needs to be customized with a file. probably low price affects.
  6. Berved
    Berved 7 December 2015 07: 23
    -1
    Our answer is the United States, for Kalash being ground :)
  7. carabiner sks
    carabiner sks 7 December 2015 07: 25
    +2
    Weapons for Ramb dreamers. And nothing was left of the AR-15. In terms of practical application ... Well, why does a shotgun need such a sight? Ponte is solid.
  8. ArcanAG
    ArcanAG 7 December 2015 07: 26
    12
    The tubular magazine was replaced by a box one, but remained in the design of the gun.
    At least overweight.

    It is clear that the tubular magazine is included in the exhaust system of the original gun and just can not be removed. But m. then it made sense to make two-store food.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. bunta
    bunta 7 December 2015 07: 46
    +7
    The butt is unregulated. Butt, handle and receiver of one piece of plastic - this is the eternal desire to save. Design sucks.
  11. bionik
    bionik 7 December 2015 07: 47
    0
    MP-155K self-loading smoothbore gun. [Media = http: // https: //youtu.be/efRQivXN60E]
  12. inkass_98
    inkass_98 7 December 2015 07: 50
    +7
    Pure marketing. There is quite a good "Saiga-12", so there is a store for 8 rounds, not five.
  13. dzerzhinsky
    dzerzhinsky 7 December 2015 08: 44
    +9
    Once again they spoiled the name of the domestic product in filthy Latin letters.
    Manufacturers probably already call a Kalashnikov assault rifle avtomat KalahnicovaMonkeys are shameful!
    1. martin-159
      martin-159 7 December 2015 09: 53
      0
      Foreign Chuchmeks cannot pronounce or write the letter "Ж"
      1. Major_Vortex
        Major_Vortex 7 December 2015 10: 45
        +5
        Quote: martin-159
        Foreign Chuchmeks cannot pronounce or write the letter "Ж"

        Of course they can't. The words "automatic" and "Kaldashnikov" do not contain the letter Ж laughing

        ... And if there was, then - "zh" soldier
        1. alex-cn
          alex-cn 7 December 2015 15: 34
          0
          And zh is no longer possible, this applies to Czech brands smile
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 7 December 2015 15: 44
        +3
        Quote: martin-159
        Foreign Chuchmeks cannot pronounce or write the letter "Ж"

        - Will we have a headline today or not?
        - It will, - said Drozd. - I have already drawn the letter "K".
        - Which "K"? What does "K" have to do with it?
        - But what, wasn’t it?
        “I'm going to die,” said Roman. “The newspaper is called For Advanced Magic. Show me at least one letter "K" there!
        (C)
  14. Papapg
    Papapg 7 December 2015 09: 03
    +3
    Quote: AlexDARK
    The design reminds me of something ..

    It looks like Bangladesh. It's like a Zhiguli in Soviet times, the tin was bent differently, and inside the same Zhiguli, but the name is already different. At first I thought that a box magazine was added to the tubular magazine for combined use and to increase ammunition if necessary, there is not always time to "recharge" in the process of using the weapon, I added a magazine and was calm. Siphon and Beard called it - rebranding, how.
  15. Hubun
    Hubun 7 December 2015 09: 04
    +3
    my Boar will be more reliable however
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 7 December 2015 10: 55
      +1
      Quote: Hubun
      my Boar will be more reliable however

      my Saiga 12K too ...
      1. Massik
        Massik 7 December 2015 13: 01
        +4
        Quote: Hubun
        my Boar will be more reliable however

        Quote: PSih2097
        my Saiga 12K too ...

        Murka 18 your Kalashmata will make 2 times reliability wassat
        1. Major_Vortex
          Major_Vortex 7 December 2015 13: 14
          +3
          Quote: Marssik

          Murka 18 your Kalashmata will make 2 times reliability wassat

          laughing There’s nothing to break.
  16. the47th
    the47th 7 December 2015 09: 32
    +1
    There is a need for alteration under automatic fire and a drum magazine, cartridges at 20. Saig, of course, is not a competitor, but can push Turkish trunks after the latest events, and there are not so many 21 thousand for a semiautomatic device with a removable magazine.
  17. martin-159
    martin-159 7 December 2015 09: 48
    +4
    I doubt that hunters will take this crap, and practical shooting is very underdeveloped here.
  18. lukke
    lukke 7 December 2015 10: 01
    +2
    I don’t understand - what is it for? If for tactical shooting - why 12 gauge? is it redundant and automatically increases the weight of the product? It's a bit short for hunting. Well, the fact that the butt is not regulated is already written, the only plus, unlike my Murka, is a box magazine, which makes it possible to carry different ammunition and in the case of a "new" target (instead of a duck I saw a boar))) quickly change the magazine. And according to the capacity of the store on classic murkas, you can change the nozzle to the store and 7 rounds 12x70 or 10 will fit in, though it's hard to walk with this and you need to get used to the balance. So this is purely an amateur and it seems to me that it is not massive)
  19. 2nd 12th
    2nd 12th 7 December 2015 12: 44
    +1
    For postrelushki - you need "type M-4" in 410 caliber. With a telescopic stock.
    To me, the design of this karamultuk is somehow not very ...
  20. Massik
    Massik 7 December 2015 13: 00
    +2
    On the forum about this snag, the topic was laid out on other "achievements" of modern weapons thought.
  21. Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich 7 December 2015 13: 44
    +1
    suspiciously dangerous store replacement
  22. Support
    Support 7 December 2015 14: 03
    +1
    And tell me, what will be better or better - Boar or this unit, similar to the M-16?
    1. Dam
      Dam 7 December 2015 22: 29
      +1
      What is better for? What are you going to do with her? If you hunt, then simply Murka will be better at times, and even better is a vertical like Izh. And for post-shootings, the Molotov boar is brought to the state of a sports weapon and the world championships are successfully won with it, and this weapon will be treated for childhood diseases for a couple of years
  23. igorka357
    igorka357 7 December 2015 15: 07
    +2
    What kind of plagiarism on the M-16, why cann’t designers come up with beauty?
  24. Vladimir
    Vladimir 7 December 2015 16: 27
    +2
    I wouldn’t buy it for hunting, it’s more warming the classic’s soul, but probably for the youth it’s just to shoot at targets.
  25. karamultuk
    karamultuk 7 December 2015 16: 37
    0
    I generally use the 153th. omnivorous and trouble-free machine. K series on the technical side is the same as it was in 153-155. use shells of different lengths, shutter lag, trigger, etc. hard minus of the whole structure, gas outlet as a progenitor in the presence of a removable store. with this appendage, even the iron arnie with one hand will not shoot)))
  26. bunta
    bunta 7 December 2015 16: 43
    +1
    [media = https: //videos.full30.com/bitmotive/public/full30/v1.0/videos/forgottenwe
    apons/957aac0957ae486f53ed7bbc248ef18c/854x480.webm]



    Everything was copied before us. (c)
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. vandarus
    vandarus 7 December 2015 17: 00
    +2
    Izhmash has a damn thing, take a good work item from warehouses to spoil and sell for a lot of money, that's me about conversion products.
    And about the MP -155K they take me into doubts, how many sores of Saiga 410 k01 have treated ... and here such a "squiggle", however, the usual mechanism of the MP-155 was shoved into the case a la M-16.
  29. sinoptic
    sinoptic 7 December 2015 18: 15
    0
    With all due respect, the design of the gun is lame.
    Yes, they tried to do something - but it looks ... not very.

    It would be necessary to focus not on the design of the M-16 of the 70s, which somehow got into something clumsy,
    and on modern weapons, and better on what will happen in 3-6 years.

    One word is stupid.
  30. would
    would 7 December 2015 18: 27
    +3
    Actually, we can personally see another "masterpiece" of design ideas for the civilian weapons market. I am no longer surprised by the likes. The whole point of the presented is a distant similarity to the AR family, not even to the M16. What are the advantages over the existing Saiga and especially the Boar? What for? After all, it is much easier to make an extremely small conversion and release "it", and it is quite possible to release it in a very small batch and forget. So, alas, we do it with many weapons products, and not only those intended for the civilian market.

    If we compare the civilian market with the long-barreled US, no. Generally. And this applies to the model range, and body kit and quality with reliability. We have an absolute norm of file revision and a frank marriage released for sale, in the USA, from such hair stand on end. What is typical in the United States before the ruble depreciated Believe and Saiga could easily be sold cheaper than in Russia, the competition affected.
    1. vitalius
      vitalius 7 December 2015 19: 56
      -2
      Quote: rait
      If we compare the civilian market with the long-barreled US, no. Generally. And this applies to the model range, and body kit and quality with reliability. ...


      There is no arms market in Russia, to say that there is one in Russia is a mockery, the reason is in the paranoid-cowardly "legislation" and the "people" of erefia.
      1. Major_Vortex
        Major_Vortex 7 December 2015 20: 27
        0
        Quote: vitalius
        There is no arms market in Russia, to say that there is one in Russia is a mockery, the reason is in the paranoid-cowardly "legislation" and the "people" of erefia.

        But sharp liberalization of the arms market of Russia is not necessary. First you need to adapt the laws for self-defense, and then, gradually, weaken the restrictions on the possession of firearms and knives. The middle class needs a weapon for self-defense - this is a normal and natural human desire. The rich can already afford weapons and security, and the poor are not up to the bagpipes. But if you sharply release the laws on weapons, unforeseen problems may arise. Rezinostrel when allowed was also enough incidents. One must be attentive to such things. If everything is done in stages and correctly, then everything will work out. And the population will be enough, and the business of domestic manufacturers will rise.
        1. vitalius
          vitalius 8 December 2015 19: 39
          0
          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
          But sharp liberalization of the arms market of Russia is not necessary. First you need to adapt the laws for self-defense, and then, gradually, weaken the restrictions on the possession of firearms and knives. The middle class needs a weapon for self-defense - this is a normal and natural human desire. The rich can already afford weapons and security, and the poor are not up to the bagpipes. But if you sharply release the laws on weapons, unforeseen problems may arise. Rezinostrel when allowed was also enough incidents. One must be attentive to such things. If everything is done in stages and correctly, then everything will work out. And the population will be enough, and the business of domestic manufacturers will rise.

          It depends on what is considered "sharp liberalization", if the abolition of such restrictions as obtaining a 046 certificate form, then yes, nafig such liberalization is unnecessary.
      2. would
        would 7 December 2015 20: 43
        +1
        Why not? Legislation allows itself to have at first a smooth-bore long-barreled weapon (the most popular and easiest to obtain), and after 5 years of owning it under a hunting license, also a rifled one. That is, there is definitely a market, there is a legal opportunity to sell, which we see in weapons stores. The problem is in manufacturers who not only do not want to do anything new, but are often unable to even organize the production of quality products. According to the latest, "Saiga" is a byword, hundreds of pages on thematic forums about the choice of an uncorrectable "Saiga", finished with the maximum non-stumped with the help of a file and a well-known mother, about marriage, and so on. etc. Professional shooters generally remember people who traveled all over the city and did not find a "Saiga" without jambs.
        1. Dam
          Dam 7 December 2015 22: 23
          -1
          I don’t understand which saiga you are talking about. If it’s about a smoothbore, then this is pure Babaching weapon, but there are no global shoals behind it. Has the cheapest, shit and licks. It’s just stupid to talk about some kind of accuracy of such a weapon, but always pays off its money on post-shootings. (if we are talking about 12 gauge). There is nothing to talk about caliber 410. The weapon-cartridge complex does not work. The impulse of the factory govnopatrona most often is not enough for the work of this prodigy. True, in principle, the meaning of this caliber is not clear to me. He is not enough for anything. Rifled Saigas are quite a weapon. I have MK in caliber 223. It’s quite a worthy weapon. I am collecting a cartridge of the type of Pornole 5 cm out of 5 rounds at a quick pace. It is quite possible for a self-rolling cigarette to assemble in 3,5-4 cm. It is very decent for a semiautomatic device for 26000 rubles. This work of Izhmash is not clear to me. Hunting with weapons such as military is not convenient, especially flying. The pistol grip and uncomfortable short stock interfere. Shoot a bullet from a smoothbore further than 50 meters, bad taste. The scatter will be crazy.
          1. would
            would 8 December 2015 06: 16
            +1
            but there are no global shoals behind her


            There is. Curves entirely \ front sight or all at once together, barrel defects, automation defects, chamfering on certain parts, defects in the gas unit, butt play, etc. Hundreds of pages on Saiga 12 on how to choose it, how to finish it with a file and so on and so forth.
            1. Dam
              Dam 8 December 2015 22: 46
              0
              It is hard to describe the blind sun. Well, in order: AKMovsky pillar for hell is not needed on a smooth-bore. In 90% of cases, the rear sight and front sight are simply not shot. Normally, for a smooth trunk, it is considered that a bullet hits 25 m in a 30 cm circle. (take an interest in any weapons conditions of the guarantee and they will tell you that it’s a shotgun), this is the reason for the second tale of curved pillars. (by the way, many eminent semiautomatic machines sin stably by a curved flight of a bullet, I saw it repeatedly). The barrel is in a smooth-bore-water pipe, it is very difficult to get a defect affecting the quality of shooting. Shells and swellings are immediately visible with the eye (although in my Benelli Vinci bloating from birth does not bother me at all, it shoots perfectly). A defect in automation is most often associated with cartridge quality. Try to stupidly check the pack of technical cream for geometry, just by hand drive it through the chamber. At least half will not climb. Automation requires adjustment in many imported semiautomatic devices. (for example, we tormented Andryukhin BAR BAR for a month until it began to recharge). Butt need to be stupidly changed. It is short and very uncomfortable. Chamfers and other trifles on all cheap weapons float (at leisure, turn in your hands the products of Breda for example). I DO NOT AGAINST for the purchase of Saigi. If you are not a practical shooter, she stupidly DOESN'T NEED you. And if you are engaged in shooting sports, then you know that for a decent result, any factory barrel needs to be modified for yourself. I tortured a lot of guns, I do not see fundamental differences in the quality of different manufacturers in this segment.
              1. would
                would 8 December 2015 23: 28
                0
                All right

                It's hard to describe the blind sun


                In 90% of cases, the rear sight and front sight are simply not shot.


                Only in the case described by you, they are not curves, but not shot. I’m talking about real curves when the same rear sight or front sight is overwhelmed on one side and this cannot be fixed without locksmith work, if you shoot without a significant correction, then everything will fly towards the blockage. In this case, not only the rear sight, but also the receiver can be littered. And this is visible to the naked eye.





                it is very difficult to get a defect affecting the quality of the shooting.


                Not difficult, but simple. A smooth trunk is far from a water pipe and even a tubercle from the inside will affect the shooting, it has been checked by many hunters and more than one correction work has been written. There are also curved trunks by the way, yes. Well, if defects should not be, then they should not be. And if they are, then this is a marriage that it’s better not to take it, especially when it comes to the barrel, the pressure in which is by no means atmospheric.

                A defect in automation is most often associated with cartridge quality.


                It is unlikely that constant jamming and wedges when checking the shutter by hand, a dead gas piston, missing where they should be or impassable holes for powder gases in the gas chamber are associated with the quality of the cartridge.
                1. Dam
                  Dam 9 December 2015 20: 39
                  0
                  To buy this you need to try, although I say again that the jambs are common to all manufacturers. Last week's story: I knocked out a jammed sleeve with my hand from Orsys's chamber of t 5000, broke the thread of the shutter handle ball. The indignation knew no bounds. He put the whole Orsys on his ears, after the second call, having understood the essence of the problem, the handle was sent assembled for free, pony express. True, I couldn’t put it myself normally, there manually I need to adjust the hole of the fuse rod. Conclusion: a jamb, a clear flaw in the weapons positioned as elite, but God forbid to catch something like that at an affiliate company, they’ll send horseradish, look for a locksmith. For those who shout that the German is not breaking, look at the blazer breakdown branch on the Hansa. There, the r8 did not shoot a new one from the store, the defect of the bolt group, the story of my friend, personally participated in this incident and we would have repaired it if we had personally not known the Lefty director, but simply changed it from another barrel. Once again, a loss: everything happens, but in terms of price - quality, I don’t understand quite well, why DO I NEED Saiga a smoothbore?
                  1. would
                    would 10 December 2015 14: 28
                    0
                    So I'm not talking about the fact that even a single case of marriage is bad and in general it is impossible to do this. Alas, marriage is the norm, early breakdowns because of it are the norm ... but up to a certain limit. I'm talking about how bad it is when the marriage becomes widespread and turns into the norm, and the weapon must be chosen after reading multivolume instructions and with a full set of measuring tools. And after all, you can not find a mowing one, but buy the least mowing one and modify it with a file according to multivolume instructions and hours of video. It is bad when a barrel is put on sale in which a serious defect is visible to the naked eye, it is bad when the chamfers are not removed where they should be removed with the corresponding consequences. I will not even mention the jokes of the "repair" at the plant that are described.

                    The fact that ORSIS or Germans have no excuse. If done poorly, then done poorly, regardless of how others do it.

                    everything happens, but in terms of price - quality, I don’t understand quite well, WHY DO I NEED Saiga a smoothbore?


                    Then that this is one of essentially two self-loading, magazine, smooth-bore shotguns that are now on the market. An alternative is only "Vepr" which, as far as I know, does not have such serious problems with quality, the marriage is taken away and not allowed on sale.
                    1. Dam
                      Dam 10 December 2015 18: 27
                      0
                      I explain the thought: I don’t see a niche of use for store smoothbore weapons other than practical shooting, because it is inconvenient and non-functional. And for this purpose, any weapon needs to be brought under itself. If you pay attention, there is no import analogue, because there is no niche for sale. In the self-defense segment, they prefer short pump-tops, semi-automatic machines with underbarrel stores. Concerning the Molotovsky Boar, it is also guilty of jambs, but it is much improved. It’s just that he initially had a customer in the French police, who in many ways paid for the development of the product. And as for the rifled Saiga, everything is much more interesting. Without choosing too much, I’m buying the third one. Everything shoots very well and lives its 10-12000 shots before disposal. And it is possible or impossible to produce low-quality goods for sale, the market determines, just do not buy.
                      1. would
                        would 10 December 2015 20: 53
                        0
                        I don’t see a niche of use except practical shooting for magazine smoothbore weapons, because it’s inconvenient and non-functional


                        This is inconvenient and dysfunctional for you, but there are people who are precisely focused on this and are aimed for very specific reasons. And they are not only engaged in practical shooting.

                        If you pay attention, there is no import analogue


                        AA-12, SPAS-15, USAS-12, etc. Even the Turks have analogues, including those supplied at least to Ukraine. Imported analogues were and even are now. Their unpopularity in the police is explained by the use of special ammunition that negatively affects the operation of automation or makes it impossible to work. For these ammunition, manual reloading is needed, so self-loading shotguns with the ability to switch to manual loading are so popular. And it so happened that they now only have an underbarrel store.

                        In the self-defense segment, they prefer short pump-tops, semi-automatic machines with underbarrel stores


                        The pump has the problem of "undershooting" that any shooter has, it requires more skill to handle. Doesn't allow you to recharge fast enough, recharging requires a separate workout. Well, our brevity is limited by law, so they have no particular advantages in this.

                        And it is possible or impossible to produce low-quality goods for sale, the market determines, just do not buy.


                        ABOUT! Invisible hand of the market! The market can only determine something if the market is saturated with goods, there are sufficient companies for the production of goods that will aggressively compete and be able to squeeze each other out of the market. Kalashnikov Concern is the largest producer of small arms in Russia, one of two companies that produce store guns. Not the market determines what will be sold, but they.

                        Actually, judging by what I'm reading here, you are trying with all your might to whiten the Saiga, first by all means denying the problems, then misinterpreting them, calling the crooked front sight and rear sight "just not shot", and the defects in the barrel "do not affect shooting." And then you try to justify the general marriage with another marriage.
                      2. Dam
                        Dam 11 December 2015 16: 45
                        0
                        I just consider Saigu a weapon worth the money. Let the lawyers justify. I think your tone is incorrect, but the topic is exhausted.
      3. vitalius
        vitalius 8 December 2015 19: 57
        0
        Quote: rait
        Why not? Legislation allows itself to have at first a smooth-bore long-barreled weapon (the most popular and easiest to obtain), and after 5 years of owning it under a hunting license, also a rifled one. That is, there is definitely a market, there is a legal opportunity to sell, which we see in weapons stores. The problem is in manufacturers who not only do not want to do anything new, but are often unable to even organize the production of quality products. According to the latest, "Saiga" is a byword, hundreds of pages on thematic forums about the choice of an uncorrectable "Saiga", finished with the maximum non-stumped with the help of a file and a well-known mother, about marriage, and so on. etc. Professional shooters generally remember people who traveled all over the city and did not find a "Saiga" without jambs.

        This is not a market, but speculative crap with frantic prices and even more frenzied margins, a minimum of competition and the quality of production. Reasons for this: restriction on the number of trunks, regular re-registration of trunks, 5-year waiting period for cuts.
        1. would
          would 8 December 2015 23: 36
          0
          I completely agree with the rifled, it is precisely the 5 year term that holds back this direction. For the rest, IMHO, everything is primarily due to the reluctance of existing manufacturers to do something normal and even more so to saturate the market. First of all, the small number of manufacturers affects why there are so few of them I guess and probably not only me. I agree, the problem is the lack of competition.
    2. Dam
      Dam 7 December 2015 22: 34
      -1
      Forgive the generous little respected, but for the word "erefia" I want to kick in the face. Respect your country or go to ... To partners.
      1. vitalius
        vitalius 8 December 2015 20: 13
        +1
        Quote: Damm
        Forgive the generous little respected, but for the word "erefia" I want to kick in the face. Respect your country or go to ... To partners.

        Will not forgive.
        Were and will be an erefiya, as long as you suffered-overcoming :))) these anecdotes will be relevant:
        Once in Russia, in England and France, a law was introduced "On the anal rape of citizens on Saturdays."
        Because of this, the British re-elected the parliament, unrest began in France that led to the revolution, and in Russia, citizens began to queue for rape on Friday, so that they would be released on Saturday earlier.
        1. Dam
          Dam 8 December 2015 22: 53
          -1
          Whose will you be? Judging by the tone, the Baltic. And this joke is closer to the tolerant Geyropa. By the way, on weapons legislation, for example, in Greece rifled weapons are stupidly prohibited in civilian circulation. Russian weapons legislation is annoying, but if you read the laws and regulations of many European countries, you understand that not everything is so bad. For example, in Germany you can sit down wearing a knife like Victorinox. And so I repeat: go on a troll, suck a brick
          1. vitalius
            vitalius 9 December 2015 00: 20
            0
            Quote: Damm
            Whose will you be? Judging by the tone, the Baltic. And this joke is closer to the tolerant Geyropa. By the way, on weapons legislation, for example, in Greece rifled weapons are stupidly prohibited in civilian circulation. Russian weapons legislation is annoying, but if you read the laws and regulations of many European countries, you understand that not everything is so bad. For example, in Germany you can sit down wearing a knife like Victorinox. And so I repeat: go on a troll, suck a brick

            I am Russians. The arms legislation, which I am unhappy with, is only an indicator - a litmus test of the attitude of the ruling "elite" towards citizens, and this legislation is far from being the most evil for us.
            It's not about him at all, but about the fact that now we are under the guise of taxes, twice charge for the same thing; transport tax and excise tax on fuel, and now they will take it three times, putting into operation the system of levies from truckers - "Platon". It will affect everyone. And we, out of habit, are silent in a rag. Therefore, they are terpily. I rubbed the rest of the sheet.
            1. Dam
              Dam 9 December 2015 20: 42
              -1
              I’ll ask just one question: do you still pay taxes? Second, what are you doing to change something? For example, I am in ONF, and you seem to be only talking about your country in the net
  • Evgeniy30
    Evgeniy30 7 December 2015 22: 48
    0
    Similar to P. indos.
  • Gunther
    Gunther 7 December 2015 23: 45
    0
    .. The gas automation of the novelty self-regulates in order to provide the necessary reliability level with any kind of fraction

    )))
    Vladimir is right It's not about the "types of shot", but the energy of the cartridge.
    ... is built on the basis of a self-regulating automatic gas outlet with an annular gas piston located under the barrel of the weapon (around the tube of the magazine).

    The mechanism is reminiscent of MTs21-12, the semiautomatic device is rather capricious, if you mix it up with weighed portions of up to 30 grams - it jammed, over - paper sleeves sometimes vomited.
    Given the capacity of the store and the foregoing, the pump is more preferable for me than a semiautomatic device.
  • spolo
    spolo 8 December 2015 03: 49
    -1
    Quote: vitalius
    Quote: rait
    If we compare the civilian market with the long-barreled US, no. Generally. And this applies to the model range, and body kit and quality with reliability. ...


    There is no arms market in Russia, to say that there is one in Russia is a mockery, the reason is in the paranoid-cowardly "legislation" and the "people" of erefia.

    Normal legislation, humane, moderately tough. Of course better weekly reports from schools, universities about postrelukh with victims.
    1. would
      would 8 December 2015 06: 17
      +1
      Outreach in schools and universities does not depend on weapons laws. Here we have the devil already knows how many years the trunks are legal, at least 6 million trunks in the country, and only one case. Although the tools are sold more than sufficient.
      1. vitalius
        vitalius 8 December 2015 20: 09
        0
        Quote: rait
        Outreach in schools and universities does not depend on weapons laws. Here we have the devil already knows how many years the trunks are legal, at least 6 million trunks in the country, and only one case. Although the tools are sold more than sufficient.

        I agree.
        Let me add in the overwhelming majority of "university" shootings, they are not at all horrible lethal pistols, but a completely "peaceful" long-barreled barrel, which is legal in our country (to spite Damm) in EREFII
  • MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 8 December 2015 10: 46
    +1
    I will not say anything about the internal component, but externally - this is the worst of the worst. would be embarrassed to produce a barrel with such a design.