Hi Germany, the 22460 project will be with Chinese diesel engines!

The new patrol ships of the Frontier Service of the FSB of the 22460 project will be equipped with diesel installations made in the PRC and not in the Federal Republic of Germany, as planned, Deputy Chief Engineer of the Almaz Shipbuilding Company Ilyaz Mukhutdinov told 16 in November at a press conference in the TASS regional center in St. Petersburg.

“We are talking about high-speed high-speed diesel engines of high power. We can say that their construction is outdated ”, - noted Mukhutdinov. He recalled that for the guard originally "German diesel engines with a higher resource were chosen." “Our German partners refused to supply these products”, and in the Russian Federation high-speed diesel engines of such aggregate power that meets the requirements of the customer, "Not currently", said a representative of the firm "Almaz".

"In this regard, it was decided to install on the ships under construction, Chinese high-speed engines - modern, good, required power, - noted Mukhutdinov. - At the moment, the supply contract has already been concluded, and the diesel engines of our Chinese partners will be installed on the next ships of the 22460 project. ”

The chief designer of the project of the Northern Design Bureau (SPKB) Alexey Naumov specified that power plants of this type in China are manufactured under a German license. "These are products that the Chinese produce on the basis of the German design", - he said.

REFERENCE
The patrol ships of the 22460 project Rubin cipher (“Hunter” type) are a type of diesel border (patrol) patrol ships of the territorial sea of ​​the second rank. It can be conditionally assigned to small corvettes.

On board the ship is a landing pad for a light helicopter (Ka-226 or Ansat) or a UAV (Gorizont G-Air S-100). For the helicopter can be equipped with a hangar shelter. In the stern of the vessel there is a slip for launching a rigid inflatable speedboat and other equipment. “Ruby” is equipped with a desalination plant, a sauna with a mini-pool (autonomy - 2 of the month, for such a small ship it is a lot). Range 3500 miles

The ship’s armament is one 30-mm automatic six-barreled artillery mount and two 12,7-mm machine guns. Technically, it is possible to deploy launchers of the Uran anti-ship missiles and the A-220M art installations.

External contours are developed using elements of stealth technology. The total number of ships in the series is expected to be about 30 (of which 6 is already in service).

The watchdog of the 22460 project differs from its predecessors not so much in armament as in shipbuilding qualities. Thus, the ship will be able to serve in the excitement of the sea in 6 points, while freely maneuvering. The patrolman has a new hull shape, increased seaworthiness. Speed ​​on calm water - 30 knots.

Comments

[Andrey Yuryevich]

project 22460 will be with Chinese diesels! .... how they cut in under your breath ... your mother’s import substitution!

[Ruslan]

in-in, very damn good news! have already gone down to the Chinese

[Senior manager]

Ruslan. It would be worse to deliver relatives and perform a combat mission with the speed of a tug. In general, the Chinese have raised the level of their products. Engaged in people and more than one year. But you need to think before speaking. The sanctions were introduced for about a year, and all the hasty people want that during this time industry will overtake the whole world in all sectors and in all positions. Yeah right now.

[Kazakh]

Quote: St. Propulsion

The sanctions were introduced for about a year, and all the hasty people want that during this time industry will overtake the whole world in all sectors and in all positions. Yeah right now.

Druzhok "perestroika" was started precisely to raise productivity in production, that is, they have been fooling our heads for 25 years, and you say one year. One year only when a new slogan was invented, and boltology has been going on for more than a quarter of a century.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Kazakh

Buddy "perestroika" was started precisely to

... in-in! It was from that moment that ALL mainstream production and industry (the entire "mighty Nine") began, at best, to "rivet pots", and then finally the inna went!

[Talgat]

Immediately everything is simply impossible to replace. Nobody can do this in the world. Only the USSR could once
Now Russia will have to gradually produce strategic production itself anyway

In the meantime, after the sanction, Iran and China and some other countries have openly stated that they will reimburse Russia for everything that the West does not deliver - enough has been written about this

[Iline]

Quote: Talgat

Immediately everything is simply impossible to replace. Nobody can do this in the world. Only the USSR could once

Let's put our hand on our hearts - never in Russia, including in the USSR, could they make good engines. At best, it turned out to be a "rethinking" of Western models for the realities of exploitation.
So in this case, we should not talk about import substitution, but about the creation, finally, of our own engine building school.

[Tarikxnumx]

I would not make such unfounded statements with a hand on my heart ... Just the same in the USSR there was a very strong school of engine builders. As for the "rethinking of Western models", then on good terms, all the existing engines at the moment are a rethinking of the designs of the same Diesel, etc.

[Arikkhab]

your untruth. In Khabarovsk, the Daldizel plant was closed (closed in 2007), which not only worked for the country's needs, but also delivered abroad to 30 countries of the world, participated in international exhibitions and fairs. The plant supplied ship engines and generators half the country. up to 1500 vehicles a year were delivered only to new ships, not counting what was going on for ship repair! quite decent diesel engines were, even if South Korea bought
why not rejoice the plant?

[Shteffan]

Quote: Iline

Let's put our hand on the heart - never in Russia, including in the USSR, could they make good engines

B-2 TANK DIESEL, which stood on the t-34, ARE NOT ONE OF THE BEST? and 5tdf and 6td ??

[neri73-r]

Steffan, you are ahead of me, I also wanted to write about the line of tank diesel engines of the "B" series!

[common man]

The B-2 engine life was less than 100 hours.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Steffan

.... and 5tdf and 6td ??

The diesel engines of this series were created on the basis of the German aviation diesel engine Jumo-205

[Dart2027]

Quote: Kazakh

"perestroika" started

to destroy the USSR.

[samoletil18]

Quote: Kazakh

25 years

30!

[Amurets]

Quote: Kazakh

Druzhok "perestroika" was started precisely to raise productivity in production, that is, they have been fooling our heads for 25 years, and you say one year. One year only when a new slogan was invented, and boltology has been going on for more than a quarter of a century.

In 1980, diesel engines of the D-49 series were in full swing at the BAM and at the construction of the Bureyskaya HPP. I worked with the warranty team from the Kolomensky plant to service and repair these diesel engines on P-6 power cars. From factory specialists we learned that these engines were specially designed for the Navy USSR. Here is the skill and the question arose? Why do these diesel engines work perfectly on railway transport and the national economy, but they don’t want the military?

[shonsu]

The article has the answer to your question. it says that we need high-speed diesel engines, and ours, at the moment, do not meet the requirements. I know, Kolomna diesel engines are put on the pl, and even on some ships, the capacities are loaded. but to see the assortment for all the requirements is not enough.

[Nick]

Quote: shonsu

The article has the answer to your question. it says that we need high-speed diesel engines, and ours, at the moment, do not meet the requirements. I know, Kolomna diesel engines are put on the pl, and even on some ships, the capacities are loaded. but to see the assortment for all the requirements is not enough.

Of course, it’s pointless and stupid to expand the production of a new diesel engine for the sake of the 30 series.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Amurets

? Why do these diesel engines work perfectly on railway transport and the national economy, but they don’t want the military?

D49 - fairly powerful, medium-speed, economical, but heavy for small warships engines. St. Petersburg high-speed M504 and M507 of the Zvezda plant - lighter, more compact motors; the possibility of combining into high-power diesel-diesel units is provided. D49 has a very unpleasant feature - when accelerating, it throws out huge clouds of soot (the so-called "bear") that unmasks the ship.

[Amurets]

Quote: Bayonet

D49 has a very unpleasant feature - when accelerating, it throws out huge clouds of soot (the so-called "bear") that unmasks the ship.

This is a trouble not of a diesel engine but of a turbocharger. Not only the D-49 suffers from this drawback, but also the PD-1m and other diesel engines with our turbines. Compared with imported ones, our turbochargers have more rotor mass, and mean the rotor accelerates longer. This is not an unfounded statement. With approximately the same diesel power and the dimensions of the TC, the Czech rotor of the TC is much lighter than our TK-30 rotor.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Amurets

In 1980, diesel engines of the D-49 series were in full swing at the BAM and at the construction of the Bureyskaya HPP. I worked with the warranty team from the Kolomensky plant to service and repair these diesel engines on P-6 power cars. From factory specialists we learned that these engines were specially designed for the Navy USSR. Here is the skill and the question arose? Why do these diesel engines work perfectly on railway transport and the national economy, but they don’t want the military?

Probably because, in due time, once-through boilers and boilers with high steam parameters, which worked perfectly in the merchant fleet and onshore power plants, turned out to be a real punishment for ships of the German Navy. Shipborne power plants operate in the mode of variable loads, vibrations and shocks - in short, in conditions uncharacteristic of civilian use.

Since the early 2000s, the Navy has been butting with Kolomna about the quality of the "Guarding" diesel engines - And nothing has changed. The order of the Navy is simply uninteresting to the plant - it already has a breakthrough of orders from Russian Railways. And to make a small series of diesel for the very specific requirements of the fleet is more hemorrhoids than profits. Capitalism, however ...

However, recently it came to an unprecedented earlier: the industry recognized its cant with diesels.

... at a meeting of the Marine Collegium, the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy expressed his dissatisfaction with the quality of the engine of the Ural Diesel Engine Plant. The commander-in-chief said that the enterprise "makes it so that after two months the lids on these installations are completely corroded by sea water."

“Naturally, quality is lame in all diesel engineers. The Commander-in-Chief is right, no one can deny here that quality must be raised, ”said UDMZ representative

[Nick]

Quote: Amurets

.Here was the skill and the question arose? Why do these diesel engines work perfectly on railway transport and the national economy, but they don’t want the military.

Those. characteristics do not match those. assignment. Everything is simple.

[Lelek]

Quote: Kazakh

.One year as soon as they came up with a new slogan, and boltology has been going on for longer than a quarter century.

And why? It seems to me that the persons responsible for this notorious "import substitution" are much more comfortable doing nothing or simply pretending to be active rather than rolling up their sleeves. The salaries are bulky, money is dripping into the accounts, and by working hard, you can buy hemorrhoids. It turns out that import substitution must begin with the replacement of these very "responsible persons". I came across an interesting article, though not entirely in the subject, but nevertheless:
(cry.)

[Saratoga833]

Looking at the photo of Sechin, negative characters from the series about gangsters are always presented to me. Very, very similar!

[Alekseev]

Quote: St. Propulsion

in general - it is the Chinese who have raised the level of their products.

It is possible that Chinese diesel engines will be essentially the same German MTU. They release them under license, the main components are probably native.
On the one hand, this shows the futility of all embargoes, but on the other hand, our factories should produce engines for the fleet in a full assortment and worthy quality.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Alekseev

It is possible that Chinese diesel engines will be essentially the same German MTU

Most likely that is why they are put on. Many believe that it is enough to release your diesel engine and you can immediately put it, as in a computer game. But in reality, diesels from different manufacturers have different weight and size characteristics, different places for connecting service systems and different control systems. that is, you need to either reconfigure the ship or create a diesel engine for specific parameters. Both are technically possible, but require time and cost.

[Saratoga833]

Quote: Alekseev

decent quality

No matter how much you take Chinese-made metal products, the impression is that they are made of plasticine!

[Andrey NM]

For a year, at least a plan could be made up. Have you done it? And, well, yes, they made almost everywhere toll roads. To support the Pace of the Russian lads of the Rottenbergs.

[anip]

Quote: St. Propulsion

The sanctions were introduced for about a year, and all the hasty people want that during this time industry will overtake the whole world in all sectors and in all positions.

That is, over 15 years of his rule, Putin did not have enough sense to understand that he needed to develop his industry and only after the imposition of sanctions did he finally "get it"? True, I doubt very much that it "came through", because in reality nothing is being done, except for a feverish search for new markets to whom to sell oil and gas.

[Johnny51]

Down? Yes, we still have to rise and rise to China!

[Rus2012]

Quote: Johnny51

Yes, we still have to rise and rise to China!

... a strange formulation of the question, considering that the WHOLE WORLD has turned China into a "21st century factory": they transferred all world production there, from electronics to the automotive industry and heavy machinery ...

Isn't it better to "use" this factory correctly?

[samoletil18]

Quote: Rus2012

to "use" this factory correctly?

Already in Bangladesh and others who look poorer than China. Ukraine is coming soon.

[Nevsky_ZU]

I don’t understand, however, when our officials want to stir up a murky scheme, they are masters at creating one-day firms for operations both within the Russian Federation and with the outside world. What prevents the engines from ordering in Germany for some Kazakh company "Caspian"? And those have already been thrown to us? Well, understandable service and maintenance, all that. But is it really impossible to make a mediator? Of course, I'm not trying to persuade you not to engage in your own import substitution, just so as not to waste time. European food producers find a loophole through Belarus. Well, since there is a sea there, let's go in reverse order?

[your1970]

Expensive engines with the proposed option through an intermediary in Kazakhstan will become even more expensive-commerce, could come out to be half as much from China ...
Regarding the listed Russian companies, since such a question arose, it means they cannot deliver such engines NOW

[Rus2012]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

What prevents the engines from ordering in Germany for some Kazakh company "Caspian"? And those have already been thrown to us?

... believe the luminaries, ALL THINGS POSSIBLE are done in all available ways. In this matter, the Kazakhs are under the control of the world gendarme.
The world gendarme only threatened 10bn of green ... and the French refused to supply the Mistrals for the total amount of 1bn.

Deutschland was billed for 18 billion (VAGu as BE) also not for "pretty eyes".

We - in 50bn, for the sake of obedience, but the GDP was sent by the inna and went further ...

Before you write anything, you should turn your head to 360 city and think ...

[Pancho]

Quote: Rus2012

We - in 50bn, for the sake of obedience, but the GDP was sent by the inna and went further ...

What are you saying? But in the USA our money, for the amount of $ 80 billion, is not stored for an hour? Now they are confiscated by some American court and bye-bye, we move on, having weary ...

[They <b>accompany you</b>]

already descended to the Chinese :(

it’s funny to read stuffed on a Chinese keyboard in Germany, these engines (with a 90% probability) are collected by some sort of Arab, at best, Turks.

[svp67]

Quote: ruslan

the Chinese have already descended

We must look the truth in the eye, now we have sank even lower. Well, God will give skills and assertiveness, we will catch up and overtake.

[Nick]

Quote: ruslan

in-in, very damn good news! have already gone down to the Chinese

The engines are essentially German; China produces them under a German license.

[Senior manager]

Andrey Yuryevich. To create a high-speed diesel is not to stomp Claudia, and not even to bake a pie. Bustler.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: St. Propulsion

Andrey Yuryevich. To create a high-speed diesel is not to stomp Claudia, and not even to bake a pie. Bustler.

to comrade Slower: that is, the Chinese can, but the Russians cannot? calibers, can we, no diesel? No need to talk nonsense. So again, to the "boilers" we will slide into the Navy ... there is no one to do? - OJSC "Kolomensky Zavod", OJSC "Bryansk Machine-Building Plant", OJSC "Penzdizelmash" (managing company - CJSC "Transmashholding"), OJSC "Barnaultransmash", OJSC "Volzhsky Diesel im. Maminykh "(Balakovo, Saratov Region), OJSC RUMO (Nizhny Novgorod), OJSC Dagdizel (Kaspiysk), OJSC Zvezda (St. Petersburg), LLC Uralsky Diesel-Motor plant "(Yekaterinburg).first you can take your time, and then you can ALREADY not be in a hurry ...

[Senior manager]

Andrei Yurievich, read, I just pointed to the time factor. And I see the situation like this: Russia was led to integrate into the world economy, and the West took advantage of this and introduced oxygen, now it’s necessary to catch up, there is where, there is someone, but time ...

[They <b>accompany you</b>]

Russia led to integration into the global economy

that is yes. So it happened with oil, it’s necessary to process and sell plastics, not raw materials

[common man]

There are many factories, little sense. ICE is generally the weak point of the USSR-Russia. What are the engines of domestic design that can be called "the best in the world"?

[Bayonet]

Quote: man in the street

What are the engines of domestic design that can be called "the best in the world"?

RD-180

[common man]

If the RD-180 is an internal combustion engine, then I am the pope!

[Homo]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Comrade Netoropyge: that is, the Chinese can, but the Russians can’t?

You do not seem to write such garbage! Maybe you do not know - the Chinese did not have YELTSIN !!!

[Bayonet]

Quote: Homo

Maybe you do not know - the Chinese did not have YELTSIN !!!

They had Mao Zedong with the cultural revolution!

[NOMADE]

+ a lot! thick;)!

[NOMADE]

Greetings! Don't panic!) It is clear that emotions ... But, I wrote about this even more than half a year ago (even tweeted ..)) For a long time a "licensed copy of MTU" suggests itself, while ours are developing their analogue. Moreover, knowing the Germans (through personal communication at work), they themselves spit on these sanctions. We can say that they also indirectly helped, since without the unspoken "good" the Chinese would not be able to officially sell licensed EIs. In this regard, it is easier for them, they were sold licensed production, including a machine tool park with technologies ... We missed this moment .. ((If in 2010 - 2012 (while we were "partners") would make a request to build a joint plant with MTU .., then now there would be much less smut .. But alas, history does not tolerate the subjunctive relationship .. And now, you need to gain experience when working with the supplied power plants, actively "work" with Chinese colleagues (they were not badly trained by engineers from Germany) , for the development and production of modern diesel installations.

[altman]

I agree with you .. who prevented our buy a plant and licenses for the production of diesel engines?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

no one to do? -OAO “Kolomensky Zavod”, OJSC “Bryansk Engineering Plant”, OJSC “Penzdieselmash” (managing company - CJSC “Transmashholding”), OJSC “Barnaultransmash”, OJSC “Volzhsky diesel engine named after Maminykh ”(Balakovo, Saratov region), OJSC“ RUMO ”(Nizhny Novgorod), OJSC“ Dagdiesel ”(Kaspiysk), OJSC“ Star ”(St. Petersburg), LLC“ Ural diesel engine factory "(Ekaterinburg)

Out of this list, only 3 offices are engaged in diesel engines for the Navy: Kolomna, Zvezda and UDMZ.
Zvezda specializes in very specific powerful and small-sized diesel engines for small fleets - boats and small ships. PSKR for these diesels is too big. In addition, the "star" diesel engines are quite capricious and require frequent maintenance and repair. This is a power plant for "sprinters", and PSKR is a stayer, or even a marathon runner (for him, reliability and resource are more important than maximum speed - because border guards go to sea regularly, much more often than RCA, IPC and MRK). Alas, the MTU resource is an order of magnitude greater than that of Zvezda diesels.
Kolomna has hammered in on the requirements of the fleet - and gives a standard answer to all requests in the style: "either take what is, or nothing else will happen - and without you orders above the roof".
UDMZ recently torn a magical jamb with naval diesels, which even reached Chirkov and which the plant representative was forced to admit.

PS to demand marching diesel engines from Dagdiesel is the same as demanding engineering products from the Design Bureau of Special Engineering.
For Dagdiesel for the Navy all his life he made only torpedoes and diesel generators with a capacity of up to 60 hp

[mark1]

We have high-speed diesel engines produced by JSC "Zvezda" of the M507 series, etc. For a long time they were the best in the world. Are they, now, several times worse than the German-Chinese?

[gjv]

Quote: mark1

We have high-speed diesel engines produced by JSC "Zvezda" of the M507 series, etc. For a long time they were the best in the world. Are they, now, several times worse than the German-Chinese?

M507 for such a PSK is of course redundant, but M503A (ChNSP16 / 17) by the combination of power (slightly lower) - revving would more or less fit. But on the basis of goodness - the best, unfortunately ... the fact is that MTU diesels for some reason have a slightly lower fuel consumption and, at the same time, a resource before overhaul of 30000-90000 hours versus 1000-6000 hours for diesel engines produced by JSC "Zvezda".
Now it remains to find out what resource will be in the Chinese licensed products.

[mark1]

Quote: gjv

Of course, the M507 is redundant for such a PSK, but the M503A (ChNSP16 / 17) in terms of a combination of power (slightly lower) - revolutions would more or less fit.

Of course, I had in mind the line of diesel engines of the M-500 series. As far as I know, the plant has a program to increase the resource and increase fuel economy, including through the introduction of new materials and microprocessor control systems.
And at the expense of 90000 hours, this is probably for medium-speed diesel engines (although just in case, I rummage around on the Internet)

[mark1]

Found out - MTU resource - 22000-24 000 hours

[gjv]

Quote: mark1

Learned - MTU Resource

Yes, Zvezda has announced a program to improve the performance of diesel engines. However, when will this happen?
And according to MTU 16V 4000 M73L, which was planned at the project UCS 22460, the Germans called the resource 30000 hours.

[mark1]

Quote: gjv

Yes, Zvezda has announced a program to improve the performance of diesel engines. However, when will this happen? request

And everything depends on our smart-ass state - there will be an order, there will be a result, but it will be in the style of Serdyukov - Medvedev (you can't buy it for free, so "abroad will help us" we will buy everything there), then the result, as you said.

[Homo]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

project 22460 will be with Chinese diesels! .... how they cut in under your breath ... your mother’s import substitution! am

You talkers have already got it! Maybe you are a "gin" or "Old Man Hottabych" or, at worst, "Golden Fish" ??? So take and in a couple of weeks bungle a couple of dozen necessary engines. Weak? Of course, bazaar is not tossing bags! If we do not produce them, if development and production takes time, then what should we do? Don't build ships!

[avt]

Quote: Homo

You talkers have already got it! Maybe you are a "gin" or "Old Man Hottabych" or, at worst, "Golden Fish" ???

And in the second round! Well, they’ve already discussed this topic!

[Throw]

And about these PSKRs with Chinese engines, the article was already ..))

[Andrey Yuryevich]

from Trepach and I hear! how much more time is needed? it was not enough? how many years have passed since production was bent? why the hell to justify the ability to do stuffed up in the trash? No one has seen THIS ??? time it became a little damn them ... as if from scratch in a clean field everything needs to be done!

[vlad_m]

then: ruslan

in-in, very damn good news! have already gone down to the Chinese

And do people normally go to BMP and ShchV? And no one complains that the entire range of spare parts and accessories for them, including automatic transmissions and engines, are produced in Chinese factories. There are only branded brands.

then: andrey yurevich

that is, the Chinese can, but the Russians can’t? calibers, can, diesel, no?

So the opposite situation also exists. The Chinese can make a diesel engine, but the "calibers" are too tough for them! True ?
Has anyone in the world created an X-shaped tank diesel except us? Can you imagine how much time and resources it takes to create an engine from scratch? No ? At school in the mid-eighties we were taken on an excursion to the Chelyabinsk Tractor Transmission Plant. And they showed a working prototype of an X-shaped tank diesel engine. IN THE MIDDLE 80s of the last century !!!

Dont be upset. We have everything. There are also backlogs on high-speed ship diesels. We’ll finish and we will put our own. And they will be no worse than the Chinese and German.

[Walking]

The Chinese can make quite high-quality equipment.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

22460 project will be with Chinese diesels!

The key is
1. diesel engines of Germany, as planned
2. The chief designer of the project of the Northern Design Bureau (SPKB) Alexey Naumov specified that power plants of this type in China are manufactured under a German license. "These are products that the Chinese are producing based on German design," he said.

3. in the Russian Federation of high-speed diesel engines of such aggregate power, satisfying customer requirements, "Not currently", said a representative of Almaz. And to make a diesel engine on time, it’s not two fingers ... like that.

[APASUS]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

project 22460 will be with Chinese diesels! .... how they cut in under your breath ... your mother’s import substitution!

I can’t understand this naivety or not the concept of the situation with import substitution?
To create a modern diesel engine and launch it in a series is 3-5 years, taking into account homework and real financing, but what year do you want to replace everything imported?

[Vadim237]

It takes several years to develop and build a diesel engine - this is not done quickly.

[samoletil18]

Do not be nervous. The news is not new.

[svp67]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

project 22460 will be with Chinese diesels! .... how they cut in under your breath ... your mother’s import substitution!

There are also THREE moments:
- this is the first purchase for our law enforcement agencies, something in China
- these diesel engines, structurally and in terms of characteristics, exactly the same as under which they were designed and built.
- so much everything was destroyed and in fact little was done, that it takes time and effort to reach a normal level. It is a pity that with the GTE we have the same picture.

[g1v2]

Import substitution is a process for years, and we need a ship now. Tantrum is not the case here. At the beginning of the year, only Ukrainian products for our VPK had to replace 826 items. Western - 127 items. That is, industry needs to master the production of thousands of items of different products - that is, to build dozens of new industries and expand or re-equip hundreds of old ones. A worthy task of the Stalin five-year plans. For 2015, it was planned to replace about 110 items. That is, import substitution will go on for another 8 years. The main will be replaced by the year 2020, the most necessary - approximately by 2018. Before that, we will dodge how it turns out. On cotton dozens of new industries do not arise and this will require tens of billions of dollars from the budget of the Moscow Region and time. Whether someone likes it or not is a reality.

[slovak007]

Your needs to be developed and done!

[Vadim237]

Do who's stopping you - just keep in mind that production would be cost-effective, you need to produce several thousand engines a year.

[Man1]

Do we have something of our own?

[Denis DV]

It’s complete, but for these watchdogs, German-Chinese engines will go just right, they are economically more profitable, without a costlier link (Germany).

[arlekin]

Our war is only war, the rest is import. (C)

[sub307]

"! .... how they punched them in the gut ..." I personally did not understand who and who "punched in" .... But the fact that "in the Russian Federation there are high-speed diesel engines of such aggregate capacity that meets the customer's requirements," currently not "..." evokes not the best emotions. There are specialists, there are factories - "net" diesel engines ..., but well, yes, we also have "net" gas turbines, but they say that there will be ... "tomorrow", although there are ships already. But this is so ..., by the way, a "parallel" so to speak. And, with regards to diesel engines and "import substitution" - well, "Duc" replaced one import (German) with another import (Chinese) and ... here are those " import substitution "is made, you can put" paw to ear "and" report cheerfully ".

[igorra]

And what do you want, your engine will appear with a wave of our wand, for 25 years we have been releasing instead of accountancy engineers, lawyers and economists. It is necessary to grow 2 times more breadcrumbs for more than one year, but here is diesel. How many people who graduated from universities on the topic of internal combustion engines work by profession, it turns out you don’t want to, but you demand from others, you can try it yourself. (I’m a mechanic by training, but I'm building, so I'm not buzzing)

[Ilya77]

Quote: igorra

And what do you want, your engine will appear with a wave of our wand, for 25 years we have been releasing instead of accountancy engineers, lawyers and economists. It is necessary to grow 2 times more breadcrumbs for more than one year, but here is diesel. How many people who graduated from universities on the topic of internal combustion engines work by profession, it turns out you don’t want to, but you demand from others, you can try it yourself. (I’m a mechanic by training, but I'm building, so I'm not buzzing)

BOB, engineers enough and let out enough, and here with employment problems.

[Vityok]

Our industry should be raised and developed from "knees", then we will have everything of our own! And then one "bazaar" - import substitution, import substitution ... Just words!

[Azitral]

Someone Cherkashin, a submariner and a writer, visited, if I’m not mistaken, one of the “Los Angeles” his main impression: full of parts and devices from Germany, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, etc. I - wholeheartedly for the development of a universal and flexible industry in the Russian Federation, believe me. But by trying to do EVERYTHING, you will do it mediocre at best. One of the reasons for the collapse of our mechanical engineering after the collapse of the USSR: practically everything, and everything is not very good. That is why there is an international division of labor. And it is very, very convenient when you "share" it with the vassals. The United States could and still can rely on its external suppliers. The authoring, which, in fact, you offer, is reliable, but too expensive and does not give the opportunity to do it at the highest world level - everything at once. In the Russian Federation now they are doing what no one else is doing, and some of them are the best in the world. It would take a long time to list. But you still have to buy, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to compete with the whole world and have a decent standard of living, so that people do not compare and do not look askance over the hill.

[Andrey NM]

Quote: Azitral

Someone Cherkashin, a submariner and writer, visited, if I'm not mistaken

This submariner and writer of the remote control decrypts this abbreviation as "personal breathing device". And that's it. And suddenly there were no engines for helicopters, and electronics were suddenly made in Ukraine. And suddenly it turned out that in many key areas we have a solid screwdriver assembly. It's good that rocketry is still breathing somehow ...

[Azitral]

I'm not a little about that, do not you think? Where did you see cheers-patriotism or something else like that? Or do you have accurate information that on US nuclear submarines components are exclusively manufactured by them? WHAT FOR?

[Bayonet]

Quote: Vitek

Your industry must be raised from its knees

It is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary - has not it risen yet? - it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary ........

[BMW]

Quote: Bayonet

It is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary - has not it risen yet? - it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary, it is necessary

Yeah, how many naked woman do not show a eunuch, there is no sense in him anyway.
In Soviet diesel engines there were two problems: efficiency and resource. Money was not particularly considered then. Therefore, problems arose.
I can’t understand some commentators here. Who is stopping the engine from playing? There is not much time for this - the main desire. And alas, it’s just not there.

[IS-80]

Quote: Bayonet

Must

When I once again hear this word, just longing for some kind of soul takes. It immediately becomes clear that without a good kick no one will do anything.

[Patriot C]

Well, they replaced German engines with Chinese ones, well, there will be a turnaround period in times shorter, and the ships will spend 3 times more time in the repair docks. What is the reason for joy here? Or are the Chinese Lifani already better than the German Mans?

[donavi49]

Well, what to do? And the reliability of the Chinese is higher than that of Kolomna.

By the way, Pella also renegotiated contracts directly to China, and to CAT (they used to work with Chinese, but through the parent CAT) and to licensed clones of RR columns.

[Andrey NM]

By the way, about "Lifans". Father has "Lifan X60". For 2 years, nothing broke or fell off. In the hydraulic booster, the tube was changed according to the recall. Although I am still skeptical about the Chinese auto industry.

[pioner]

Shame on our country !!!

[parusnik]

Hi Germany, the 22460 project will be with Chinese diesel engines!..Sorry not with my ...

[Andryukha G]

The situation with engines for border boats is similar to the problem with the Mistrals, the Chinese engines were installed only for one simple reason - they were needed today, Russia tomorrow (figuratively speaking) will launch production at home, how it establishes and produces helicopter engines, which in a large percentage (up to 50-70%) came from Ukraine.

[donavi49]

There are two problems with ship engines:
- Reliability, extremely low.
- Low power exhaust per volume / mass.

For frigate corvettes, this is bearable (and then on the same 20385 with D49, the maximum speed design sags to 24, against 28 design MTUs), but on small ones it is very strong.

According to calculations, at the maximum capacity of the Star, the speed of 25 nodes would have pierced, which is generally not acceptable for a guard. The unit on the baby D49 would be even less specific power.

New engines do, but rather sluggishly:
- D50 is a new series, but they are again made under diesel locomotives with the money of Russian Railways. The fleet there is a side customer, who was ordered to serve. This is generally the trouble of Kolomna-Navy.
- The star is trying to rebuild its engine, to a modern ratio of power and weight.

[martin-159]

Import substitution. Import will be replaced by Chinese!

[Dimon19661]

Quote: mark1

We have high-speed diesel engines produced by JSC "Zvezda" of the M507 series, etc. For a long time they were the best in the world. Are they, now, several times worse than the German-Chinese?

It is very strange that they do not want to use them .. They were intended for ships of similar dimensions, and with their power (10000 hp) they would have provided a speed of 30 knots.

[gjv]

Quote: Dimon19661

It is very strange that they do not want to use them ..

The answer is ...

Quote: lwxx

If the quality of the engines is the same as on the diesel generators supplied to us at the power plants, then the ships will stand forever in repair.

Of course, it doesn’t last forever, and nevertheless, unfortunately, the life of domestic diesel engines to overhaul 1000-6000 hours against 30000-90000 German hours. What is the resource of Chinese products? Apparently we find out.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Dimon19661

It is very strange that they do not want to use them .. They were intended for ships of similar dimensions, and with their power (10000 hp) they would have provided a speed of 30 knots.

It’s not the speed that matters to the frontier, but the resource. For they spend much more time at sea than the ships of the Navy. And they have no way to keep half of the fleet against the wall for maintenance or repair.

Zvezda is a power plant for short distance runners. And the border guards need a power plant for a marathon runner.

[lwxx]

If the quality of the engines is the same as on the diesel generators supplied to us at the power plants, then the ships will stand forever in repair.

[Awaz]

so crap so crap. Although there is nowhere to go. The only thing I think is that they still make their engines and when they bring them to condition.

[Cap.Morgan]

Put the Chinese engines, so what?
So they are no worse than German, and most importantly, if they need only a few pieces, it makes no sense to bother with production.
Somehow, nobody is nervous about the fact that 90% of all the clothes that expensive Russians wear are Chinese. Chinese products in stores. Chinese shoes, computers, electronics ...
The main trend and political will.
On the contrary, China has demonstrated that despite the sanctions, it will supply us with almost any components and equipment. We can buy there the whole range of goods in any quantity.

[Zaurbek]

About 10 years ago Developed countries were monopolists in technology. After Germany will be rolled in several tenders for engines and the Chinese will sell engines, the Germans will immediately become more flexible in prices and the moral commission will go in the ass. Germany also drove the Turks with MTU tank diesel engines. But China is already making such diesel engines, copies of the MTU. Tank engine is a more highly loaded design, it is more difficult to do, but time will pass and ....

[Fonmeg]

A fly in the ointment! It is clear that this is the result of the treacherous, thieves' policy of the previous government, but the time has come to correct it, and so far no progress is particularly felt! Not in the agro-industrial sector of the economy, not in the defense industry! Are we waiting for the blessings from oil again and the return of the goodwill of our Western "friends"?

[anip]

Quote: Fonmeg

It is clear that this is the result of the treacherous, thieves policy of the previous state power

Uh-uh, but for 16 years what has the current government been doing? Isn't it the same?

[v.yegorov]

Quote: pioner

Shame on our country !!!

We cannot produce a lot of things ourselves, so why shout the shame on the country. Much
just became unprofitable due to the small population, a lot lost with the loss
cooperation, lost a huge amount of technology because of the so-called
"embedding" in the world market and the loss of specialists. Now we are slowly recovering using key technologies, we cannot immediately grasp the immensity and be
everywhere first.

[Alex1977RUS]

Quote: ruslan

in-in, very damn good news! have already gone down to the Chinese

Quote: pioner

Shame on our country !!!

Quote: Vitek

Our industry should be raised and developed from "knees", then we will have everything of our own! And then one "bazaar" - import substitution, import substitution ... Just words!

Or maybe, before hysteria, turn on the head?
We do not have our own engines of a similar class, and we will not expect in the near future.
The Germans would probably have given us, which is unlikely, subject to sanctions, only the engines themselves and the minimum technical documentation necessary for maintenance.
And the Chinese have a complete technical package. They make them. Modern engines.
By license, but by yourself. Factories in which they are made.
Here they are drawings, here they are technical maps, here they are machines, here they are all the nuances, carefully, with German pedantry painted. And the people who make them can explain subtle places.
Turn on the head again and draw the CORRECT conclusions.

[Bator]

You can't wave a magic wand and nothing will appear by itself! Need time. Recently (3-4 years) several representatives of the foreign car industry have contacted us with orders: "Guys, whatever the components are yours, you make them for us, but according to our (EU and US) standards. We will not offend you with orders." And our equipment is still Soviet. We rushed to one organization, they say, design and manufacture. They answered: we have 3 engineers and 10 workers left (in the early 90s - a 9-storey building and two factories). They abandoned, left across the country, and bowed to the Chinese. Maybe they will help. Why not your own?

[Mayor_U]

Found something to be proud of! The joyful optimism of the author of the article is not clear. Diesel is not ours, unfortunately.

[X Y Z]

The ship’s armament is one 30-mm automatic six-barreled artillery mount and two 12,7-mm machine guns. Technically, it is possible to deploy launchers of the Uran anti-ship missiles and the A-220M art installations.

I understand that this "possibly" is not done in 5 minutes and increases the combat power of the ship at times. What are the conditions for retrofitting? In what configuration do we need this ship and how expedient is its production with a minimum of weapons?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: XYZ

In what conditions is retrofitting made?

In the case of mobilization of the ship to the Navy. That is - at the beginning of the great war.

Quote: XYZ

In what configuration do we need this ship and how expedient is its production with a minimum of weapons?

To solve the tasks posed to the Pskr, full-time armament 22460 is enough. They do not need to be drowned, but detained — moreover, it is highly desirable, without losses in the crew of the detained vessel.
As practice has shown, 30-mm caliber shells are enough to bring the crews of trawlers, crabbolders, and even bulk carriers to life. Our border guards even managed to sink one 100-meter bulk carrier with fire from a 30-mm gun.

[Cis-Urals]

Do not hang the nose of the midshipman !!! I believe, give time and the oceans will hear the rumble of OUR diesel engines. Give time to our industry.

[BNM]

Quote: Homo

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

project 22460 will be with Chinese diesels! .... how they cut in under your breath ... your mother’s import substitution! am

You talkers have already got it! Maybe you are a "gin" or "Old Man Hottabych" or, at worst, "Golden Fish" ??? So take and in a couple of weeks bungle a couple of dozen necessary engines. Weak? Of course, bazaar is not tossing bags! If we do not produce them, if development and production takes time, then what should we do? Don't build ships!

I fully support, I wonder why everyone decided that if Chinese means G ... apparently judged by low-quality household appliances that were produced in the basement and which they ran into .My profession is associated with industrial equipment and I can assure you that Chinese is not nearly as bad as the example of so much-praised Japanese or American equipment I have personally been convinced of this more than once

[chunga-changa]

Gorbachev is to blame, of course, there is absolutely nothing to do with Rozogin.

[lonovila]

- With the same success it would be possible to transfer the production of the Armata tank ... - To the Kharkov tank plant ... - Then Ukraine would be delighted ...

[chinArmy]

Gorbachev, Yeltsin .. Sanctions, crisis .. In a couple of years you won’t create anything ..

Somehow everyone forgot the "well-fed" zero, pre-crisis. Nobody thought to invest in production. All investments were in the oil industry. Now we are reaping the fruits of that policy

The Chinese also began to make engines in more than one year. Who prevented us from making concessions for the deployment of storages and doing under license everything that is possible, as in China? For 10 calm years, it was possible to create so many technology parks with foreign capital that no one would dare to impose sanctions. And there they themselves would take over the experience

Nobody thought about it (up there), sawed off the budget, sat on an oil needle ..

[anip]

Quote: chinArmy

Nobody thought about it (up there), sawed off the budget, sat on an oil needle ..

Yes, what are you ?? Everyone got up from their knees ...

[tinibar]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

project 22460 will be with Chinese diesels! .... how they cut in under your breath ... your mother’s import substitution!

Unfortunately, import substitution is still only a word. And China in this case does not sound sweeter than Germany. I understand that a marine diesel engine cannot be designed and put into production in a year. It is all the more insulting for the "wasted" years and even decades.

[Dimon19661]

Quote: gjv

Quote: Dimon19661

It is very strange that they do not want to use them ..

The answer is ...

Quote: lwxx

If the quality of the engines is the same as on the diesel generators supplied to us at the power plants, then the ships will stand forever in repair.

Of course, it doesn’t last forever, and nevertheless, unfortunately, the life of domestic diesel engines to overhaul 1000-6000 hours against 30000-90000 German hours. What is the resource of Chinese products? Apparently we find out.

If you don’t know the topic, then you don’t have to write nonsense - 90 hours, my friend any mechanic will laugh at you.

[Storyteller]

The Chinese are a diligent nation. If they honestly buy a full license, with technology, then the products they get are quite solid: take at least Lifan rattles for motoblocks. And if you try to clean clean, you get an airplane engine with three times less resource. The Germans, it seems they took a full license.

[anip]

The new patrol ships of the Frontier Service of the FSB of the 22460 project will be equipped with diesel installations made in the PRC and not in the Federal Republic of Germany, as planned, Deputy Chief Engineer of the Almaz Shipbuilding Company Ilyaz Mukhutdinov told 16 in November at a press conference in the TASS regional center in St. Petersburg.

Yes, ah, really, there is something to be proud of hurray Utriot, because this is the import substitution of Putin in all its glory.

[sa-ag]

the Chinese have a trend - to make it cheap so that there are no competitors, hence there may be questions about the quality of metal in mechanical engineering

[cap]

I have a Japanese laptop assembled in China from which I can not understand
There are no questions, because I have not sorted it in 5 years even once.
You just have to work on the bugs.
Those who should do this.

[Kuzyakin15]

Quote: Alex1977RUS

Quote: ruslan

in-in, very damn good news! have already gone down to the Chinese

Quote: pioner

Shame on our country !!!

Quote: Vitek

Our industry should be raised and developed from "knees", then we will have everything of our own! And then one "bazaar" - import substitution, import substitution ... Just words!

Or maybe, before hysteria, turn on the head?
We do not have our own engines of a similar class, and we will not expect in the near future.
The Germans would probably have given us, which is unlikely, subject to sanctions, only the engines themselves and the minimum technical documentation necessary for maintenance.
And the Chinese have a complete technical package. They make them. Modern engines.
By license, but by yourself. Factories in which they are made.
Here they are drawings, here they are technical maps, here they are machines, here they are all the nuances, carefully, with German pedantry painted. And the people who make them can explain subtle places.
Turn on the head again and draw the CORRECT conclusions.

I climbed in the net looking for information how much the Russian Federation paid to Ukraine and the Germans for the undelivered ship engines. I ran into an interview with Mr. Rakhmanov in my opinion. So: the decision to deploy the so-called. "import substitution" was announced back in 2008, it seems, but as always, the guarantor crowed, and those who were supposed to hear and rush to perform did not even stir the rolls.
Total....
As always, until the thunder strikes .....

[condrat13]

It is not clear why the "metal cutter" for such a ship cannot be painted white - the artillery does not really fit into the ball paint. Somebody knows?

[Sergei 34]

"Good" news ... for the Chinese. I hesitate to ask, but here, what engines can't do?

[zamkadish13]

Waste ship Mitrofan Enko?
I read the article when from 11 years. They are sawing it for scrap, and the ministry is planning to buy it. And now 2015, there are no Ministers. BDK is not new. He smashed the phone against the wall with anger.

[mvg]

Quote: TarIK2017

I would not make such unfounded statements with a hand on my heart ... Just the same in the USSR there was a very strong school of engine builders. As for the "rethinking of Western models", then on good terms, all the existing engines at the moment are a rethinking of the designs of the same Diesel, etc.

Seriously? And are there any examples?
Russia has never pulled out "ahead of the whole planet" in terms of engines. A striking example is the Second World War, all samples of aircraft engines are licenses of bourgeois. Rolls-Royces, Merlinov, Pratt & Whitney, BMW, Junkers ... Our engineers simply developed and improved them .. M-105 (VK-105) then VK-107, etc.
After the war, they bought the British “Nene” and “Derwent” from Rolls Royce from the British, so the MiG-15 appeared.
And further, is there really, say, in tank building that there is something better than the German MTU MB873 diesel.
No one argues that the dviglo on Grant or KAMAZ are inferior to their German counterparts ..?
On the T-72 was a distant relative of the T-34 V-2 engine, I don’t think that it is so brilliant ..

The Chinese followed the same path. They bought licenses from the Germans .. they are developing their own .. By the way, we are still lucky that we bought what we need from the Chinese, without reworking the entire boat project .. Literally in the same seats. And there is no need to wait for "import substitution" and adjust the whole project for it.

[sergei.84]

What is good for a Russian, then a German ..... It may be good for the ships, but for the operators ... My brother has been spinning the steering wheel from KAMAZ all his life, at a construction site in Sochi they put him on a Chinese. Just once, out of old habit, he slowed down the engine from the "bump" and the rocker arms unbent! And in the sea you can't stand on the side of the road, I know that from myself.

[Radical]

[quote = Vadim237] In order to develop and build a diesel engine for several years, this is not done quickly. [/ quote Sacramental question- What have you been doing for 23 years (from 1991 to 2015)!?

[Seventh]

Quote: Kuzyakin15

... But as always with us, the guarantor crowed, and those who were supposed to hear and rush to fulfill did not even move the rolls.
Total....
As always, until the thunder strikes .....

..That's it, - ..and everyone responsible for the implementation of this "crow", as usual ... on their roosting perches and in ..chocolate. Bottom line ....., it's not a guarantor ... a cock ..

[aerspb]

Quote: ruslan

in-in, very damn good news! have already gone down to the Chinese

Nothing, in a year - another and we will go down to domestic ones. Everything has its time.

[Dimon19661]

Quote: sergei.84

What is good for a Russian, then a German ..... It may be good for the ships, but for the operators ... My brother has been spinning the steering wheel from KAMAZ all his life, at a construction site in Sochi they put him on a Chinese. Just once, out of old habit, he slowed down the engine from the "bump" and the rocker arms unbent! And in the sea you can't stand on the side of the road, I know that from myself.

And how does engine braking affect the rocker arms ??? Do not write nonsense. We have had the entire Asia-Pacific summit taken out by Chinese HOWO, and nothing is normal, not Volvo, of course, but dump trucks are better than KAMAZ.

[sergei.84]

I’m not a kamazist, but especially for you, the Chinese have a mountain brake that blocks the exhaust outlet, I’ll think about it later ... My brother says that KAMAZ cars are being produced so that the Chinese nervously smoke aside. I didn’t notice the lies before and now I believe .

[Dimon19661]

You look, I’m not a diesel engineer, such a mountain brake is on almost all the trucks equipped with them, what is the connection with the bent rockers? The new KAMAZ trucks are almost Mercedes-engines and cabs taken from the Germans, by the way, too.

[Xapoh]

Quote: man in the street

The B-2 engine life was less than 100 hours.

Moreover, this is the engine resource at the stand; in real conditions, the service life was even lower.

[Zaurbek]

100 hours of T-34 was enough.

[Wolka]

so be it for now, then everything will be Russian, I believe ...

[red_october]

For reflection and in continuation of the topic, an article from "National Defense"
(the plot of the article with "Mistrals" is no longer relevant, but further reflections are not devoid of common sense)

Buy from the Chinese? Why not?

Today, when passions about the Mistral-type landing helicopter dock ships (DVKD) being built for Russia in France (“will they deliver or not deliver?”), It seems the same to raise the issue of importing naval equipment for the Russian Navy inappropriate how to talk about the rope in the house of the hanged man. Nevertheless, this topic, in our opinion, is more relevant than ever.
Take the same "Mistral" that should replenish, if everything goes well, the Pacific Fleet (Pacific Fleet). The first of them - Vladivostok - is planned to be transferred to the place of permanent basing by the end of next year, the second - Sevastopol - a year later. And who will escort the Russian Mistals? Russia's surface forces in the vast Far Eastern Ocean Theater are extremely scarce. In service - the Varyag missile cruiser and four large anti-submarine ships of the 1155 project. All of them were built in Soviet times and are intensively operated. They can often be seen not only in the Japanese, Okhotsk and other seas adjoining our shores, but also near the Horn of Africa, where they protect civilian vessels from pirate raids, as well as in the Mediterranean Sea in missions of the Russian Navy. From the three destroyer destroyers of the Pacific Fleet of the 956 project, related to ships of the main classes, there is little use. And not only because they are intended primarily for the execution of shock, and not escort and anti-submarine missions. Two of them are repaired indefinitely. The third - “Quick” - in May of this year took part in the Russian-Chinese exercises “Maritime Interaction-2014”. But the command, apparently, does not risk letting him go further than the East China Sea. Already very unreliable in ships of this type is a boiler turbine power plant. What an escort is there when the 956 destroyers themselves need constant escort of tugboats. So, just in case.
But each Mistral needs security from two to three, and ideally from four patrol ships, preferably of the frigate class. But even earlier than the French DVKD, two strategic missile submarines of the 955 project will arrive in Kamchatka: “Alexander Nevsky” and “Vladimir Monomakh”. Their appearance is expected at the end of this or the beginning of next year. The bases of these SSBNs need constant and reliable cover on the far approaches to them by surface ships, submarines and aircraft. Surface ships are necessary for the safe deployment of strategic submarines.

[red_october]

Where to get the required surface ships PLO and escort? The domestic shipbuilding industry is picking up pace, but with a creak. Now, two 20380 project corvettes are being built at the Amur Shipyard for the needs of the Pacific Fleet. When they go into operation, it is not yet clear. The main one - “Perfect” - is promised to be commissioned in the 2015 year. But this is far from a fact. His launch and the timing of delivery of the Navy have been postponed more than once. And two of these ships are too small for reliable protection of even one Mistral. A new generation of frigates of the 22350 project is being assembled at the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg to replenish the Northern and Pacific fleets. The head "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" was laid down on February 1 2006 of the year. Launched it on the water 29 October 2010 year. Since then, the ship has been standing at the outfitting embankment of the plant and can not tear herself away from it in any way. The reason for long-term construction is complex. Here and underfunding, and the unavailability of individual samples of weapons and electronic equipment, and the disruption of the equipment supply schedule. According to the most optimistic estimates, the frigate will go on sea trials no earlier than late autumn of this or spring of next year. Five more ships of this type are being built or ordered. But when they are brought to a state of readiness, today no one can say.
Problems with these ships were further exacerbated by the Kiev embargo on the supply of gas turbine power plants (GTU) to enterprises of the Russian shipbuilding industry. To date, only two M56 units with 60000 horsepower have been manufactured and delivered by Severnaya Verf. for frigates "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov" and "Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov". The question of equipping these engines with four other ships of this type is currently open. A similar situation has developed in the Baltic Yantar Shipyard, on which five frigates of the 11356P / M project for the Black Sea Fleet are being built. Three gas turbine units M7H1 with a capacity of 54000 hp were delivered to the Kaliningrad shipyard from Ukraine to complete three ships. The money for the production of three more gas turbines was paid, but it is unlikely that the order will be completed. It seems that is why the laying of the sixth ship of the series is delayed.
As the representative of the Turborus company (a joint venture of the Rybinsk NPO Saturn and the Nikolaev company Zorya-Mashproekt) said, this joint venture takes care of the Ukrainian-made gas turbine units. Moreover, it will fully provide installation supervision and commissioning work on ships under construction, since Kiev recalled the brigades that were supposed to carry out this work.
But what to do with the buildings on which the gas turbines are not installed? Indeed, according to the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov, only by the end of 2016, that is, two years later, in our country, tests of gas turbine units for warships will begin. There are developments confirmed by bench tests in this area. M75RU engines with 7000 horsepower, M70FRU engines with 14000 hp and M90FR with a power of 27500 hp, which are the fourth generation highly efficient automated marine gas turbine plants. However, their refinement to mass production takes time.
That is why it makes sense to buy ship gas turbines from China. Moreover, they are very close to what Russian ships need, since they are a further development of gas turbines of the Ukrainian company Zorya-Mashproekt. (To date, shipborne gas turbines are produced by the British company Rolls-Royce, the American corporation General Electric and the Ukrainian company Zorya-Mashproekt. More recently, China joined this elite club).
A very radical solution to the shortage of naval personnel in the Pacific Fleet could be the acquisition of military units directly from China.

[red_october]

For many decades, the Naval Forces of the People's Liberation Army of China (PLA Navy) were created with the direct or indirect participation of the Soviet and then the Russian defense industry. But time is running out. And now the students have noticeably overtaken their teachers, especially in the field of surface shipbuilding. Therefore, it is not a sin to turn to them for assistance. Moreover, Beijing will benefit from the strengthening of the Russian fleet in the Far East, since it will help the PLA Navy balance the balance of forces with the US Navy and the Japanese Naval Self-Defense Forces and even achieve a certain advantage over them.
In China, many surface ships of various projects are being built today. The most optimal for the Russian Navy, in our opinion, are frigates of the 054A type (Jiangkai-II - according to the NATO classification). They are assembled at the Hudong-Zhonghua shipyards in Shanghai and Huangpu in Guangzhou since 2005, that is, they are almost the same age as our 22350 project. To date, the PLA Navy has 16 ships of this type, four are launched, and two are in the assembly stage on the slipways. Taking into account two pre-production ships of the 054 type, which have a weaker composition of armaments, by 2016 the Chinese fleet will have 24 such frigates.
The total displacement of frigates of the type 054A is 4050 m, length 131 m, and width 16 m. Equipped with an economical diesel power plant, they develop a maximum 27-nodal speed. Cruising range is more than 8000 miles. Crew - 165 people. The armament includes two quadruple C-803 missile launchers designed for firing at sea and coastal targets, an 32 vertical-launch launcher for HQ-16 air defense missiles, an 76-mm PJ26 universal artillery gun, and two seven-barrel 30-mm short-range defense machine , two three-pipe 730-mm anti-submarine torpedo tubes and two 324-mm six-barrel RBU. There is a hangar and a platform for placing one Ka-240 or Z-28C helicopter.
Why did 054A frigates get our attention? There are several reasons for this. Firstly, their creation was carried out with the participation of the St. Petersburg Northern PKB - the leading Russian design organization for surface ships of the main classes, including frigates of the 11356 and 22350 projects. Secondly, they are equipped with weapons and electronic equipment, created mainly on the basis of Russian samples, that is, in terms of weight and size, they are easily replaceable with domestic products. Thus, the HQ-16 air defense system is a Chinese version of the Shtil-1 anti-aircraft missile system. The main artillery caliber is the 76-mm PJ26 installation is a lightweight version of the Russian AK-176, also clad in a Stels tower. Fregat-MAE-5 radar, MP-90 Nut and Mineral-ME radar are installed on the ships. According to some sources, the ships also have the Russian hydro-acoustic station MGK-335.
Thirdly, of course, 054A frigates meet the modern requirements for ships of this class in terms of armament, low visibility, seaworthiness and cruising range. They are excellent walkers and famously plow the waters of the Pacific and Indian Oceans, the Atlantic, the Mediterranean and the Black Seas.
Finally, in recent Russian-Chinese exercises, these PLA naval frigates interacted well with the Varyag cruiser, the large Admiral Panteleev anti-submarine ship of the 1155 project, the Rapid destroyer destroyer of the 956 project, and other ships and vessels of the Pacific Fleet. That is, they fit well into the Russian “ensemble”, which is important for their adaptation to operation in our conditions.

[red_october]

Of course, the Russian version of the frigate, which we conventionally call the project 054R or 054P, that is, "054 Russian", will differ from the prototype. On ships of the Navy, it is advisable to install already well-developed weapons systems. For example, the Hurricane-Tornado anti-aircraft missile system with 9M317M missiles will replace the Chinese HQ-16 air defense system. In the middle part of the hull at the site of the C-803 anti-ship missile launchers, as well as along the sides of the helicopter hangar, vertical launchers of the integrated caliber-NK or Onyx missile system can be placed. And if such a solution proves to be too costly, then these missiles, like the Chinese ones, will take their place in inclined container launchers. Instead of the PJ26 gun mount, it would be desirable to install a more powerful 100-mm Universal A190 gun, and instead of the 30-mm 730 short-range defense machines of the same type, twelve-barrel domestic Duet systems of the same caliber. Of course, there will be a replacement for anti-submarine weapons: the 324-mm torpedo tubes will be replaced by the Package-NK complex, and the 240-mm rocket-propelled bombs - RBU-6000.
New Russian armaments and equipment can be installed on ships directly at Chinese shipyards or at the Far Eastern enterprises of the Russian Federation: Dalzavod or Zvezda. Given the high pace of shipbuilding in China, to 2018-2020 years. The Pacific Fleet can receive from 8 to 12 frigates of the 054P project. And this replenishment will significantly strengthen Russia's position in the region and will enable domestic industry without the force majeure to proceed with the construction of more advanced ships of the next generation.

http://www.nationaldefense.ru/includes/periodics/navy/2014/0819/163813968/detail
.shtml

Start missiles complex HQ-16 on board the frigate Yulin type 054A.

[red_october]

I am not an unambiguous supporter of paying for jobs in China, but it may happen that while we wait for ship diesel engines and gas turbines from our industry, it will be too late
I mean that the use of such a resource as the Navy may be of greater importance in the coming 5 years than in subsequent 15-20, and we must seize the moment now.
See how events are rapidly developing: the week has passed - and the next phase of the military operation and on the Chessboard are differently positioned.
And perhaps you should consider a limited purchase of Chinese diesels / gas turbines or, possibly, whole frigates.
In addition, 5-10 new ships will be more relevant in 4-5 years (and the Chinese industry, unlike ours, it will pull, especially since we manufacture and install our weapons ourselves) than in 10, when our shipyards will make these ships for us ... Ours would have to fulfill orders for 2 series: 11356 and 22350, not to mention the modernization of pr. 1164 "Atlantov", pr. 1144.2 "Orlanov" and nuclear submarines.
Although, yes, cats scratch their hearts that in this case this money will not settle in Russia ...

[Garris199]

Engines can and should be taken, and placing orders for frigates is unlikely. As a result, we get such a variety, mom do not grieve. Efficiency will only suffer from this. Moreover, the pace of building their own ships of this class has reached an acceptable level. The problem is mainly with engines.