"Armata" and "Kurganets-25"

29
"Armata" and "Kurganets-25"


(Attention, this picture illustrates the earlier project "Kurganets", and is not an image of "Kurganets-25")

Following the general military reform, a qualitative leap is taking place in updating the equipment of the ground forces — new unified combat platforms of various classes are being developed and will be adopted. I already mentioned the Boomerang platform in my previous article. "Armata heavy platform" is already quite popular - under this name hides a family of heavy tracked combat vehicles led by a tank. But what is known about the Kurganets-25 medium tracked platform?

In my analysis, I used information from open sources, as well as some rumors, "with which the earth is full." Nevertheless, for someone it may seem useful.

"Unified Platforms"

At first, as an introductory information, it would be useful to read an interview with the head of the Main Automobile and Armored Directorate Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Major General Alexander Shevchenko, in the original source Denis Mokrushin blog

It describes in some detail the features of the new reform of BTVT and BAT, one of which is based on high technology and comprehensive unification and standardization. It is assumed that all vehicles, starting from trucks and ending with tanks, will have computerized ILE (information management system) with a single standard (for example, multiplex data transmission buses of the MIL-STD standard in NATO countries), integration elements into a single tactical management system ( ECU-TZ), the most unified modular units and assemblies.

What was just yesterday (without considering the modification)? Three main battle tanks, two types of trucks, BMP, BMD and BTR. Of course, attempts to unify all this mess were made more than once, starting with an attempt to make a unified engine for the 2В series light equipment (as a result, the UTD-3 / 29 is on the BMP-32, even the “inverse unification” went - the “Sleeve” BMD-4M and BTR "had UTD-32), ending with modernization programs, such as the Berehok, Bakhcha, and even the Burlak tank ... In such attempts to" sew a trishkin caftan ", years were spent without a particular result.

Now the goal is four new unified platforms. Yes, the "Typhoon" trucks differ from each other in the Urals and Kamaz - but they use common components and assemblies. Yes, in fact, it is supposed to have three types of armored personnel carriers and three types of infantry fighting vehicles (!), Different mass categories and different propulsion - but as part of their units, they will all be unified as well. But still? There is a clear strategy and desire of the Ministry of Defense, and an adequate response of the military industrial complex - development is already in full swing, there are visible (so far in the form of "interesting pictures") results. Let us dwell on them in more detail.

"Armata"

Let's start with the "Almaty", the benefit is for this family there are some illustrations that well reflect the property of "unified platforms." But we abstract away from the “supertank Armada” (as it is called in the press) - we are interested in the family, and not a separate type of machine. Yes, and the theme of the tank has been repeatedly discussed, and considering the "Armatu" as a tank, it will inevitably begin to compare it with the Object-195. In this article we skip this topic.

At one time, such pictures appeared on the zelezki.ru website (later pictures were added by Alexey Gur Khan Khlopotov in his blog). Naturally, these are sketches from a very early stage of project development, perhaps even a rejected version. But this is the closest related image on the Armat theme.



Family "Armata". (tick the car with the weapons complex like the BMPT, most likely it will not, instead it will be a heavy BMP).

It can be seen from the pictures that a single modular unified chassis is being created, but the innovation lies in the fact that, in addition to such “classic applications”, heavy armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles are added to the tank, such as the BREM and SAU, which allows for a full-fledged airborne exit through the ramp or swing doors.

A unified chassis has already been created in UKBTM, in the form of the E-300 platform, based on the T-90 tank:



(in the iron platform was made with the engine in the stern, but the design allows you to make and front MTO). The developments on such a unified platform will most likely be used (already used) in the development of "Armat".

Main battle tank



I do not want to repeat myself, because quite a lot has already been said about the Armata tank. Already, even with this computer model, it is clear that the reserve for the once-promising tank “Object-195” - a tank with a crew in an armored capsule in the nose of the hull, behind powerful frontal armor will be used; with uninhabited, remotely controlled fighting compartment and logistics in the stern. But in the arms will be a big change. Commander SV Postnikov clearly indicated that the prospective tank would be armed with an 125mm caliber cannon. Naturally, this will be a new weapon of increased power, for example, the 2А82, which has long been indicated as a possible equipment for Russian tanks. In this case, the transition to the caliber 152mm, and the gun 2A83 canceled. There can be a lot of reasons, starting with the banal economy - after all, you would have to create a whole line of new, tank ammunition, and in the case of the 2А82, you can shoot old projectiles. Even such a contrived excuse as limiting the weapons of the CFE Treaty, where any 152-155mm artillery systems are counted as possible carriers of tactical nuclear shells, could be taken into account. Well, such a version is likely that with the adoption of the “six-inch” caliber, the “arms race” in the armored sphere may well begin, up to the massive re-defolving of tanks from 120mm to 140mm caliber. And this decision simply does not provoke our "potential opponents / friends on reboot." Anything can happen. (also note a small DUMV with a machine gun on the turret of the tank - as is known from insiders, the 195 Object was equipped with an 30 mm 2-42 automatic cannon with independent guidance). But I repeat - it is necessary to treat the pictures with caution, they are unlikely to be similar to the final result.

Postnikov’s statement in the context of heavy platforms that "the tank will weigh 65 tons" is also interesting. The same General Shevchenko mentioned that a heavy chassis will have a bearing capacity of up to 30 tons - this is completely correlated with the notorious 65 tons. But if you recall some statements by experts and "insiders" on the Object-195 (and it was rumored to be unusually light for its size), as well as historical rejection of superheavy tanks by domestic MOs - most likely the tank will still be significantly lighter, and 65 tons is the maximum possible loaded chassis, for example, the same IMR or ARV with the maximum load.

TBTR



In fact, heavy armored personnel carriers in the Russian Federation already exist, they are BMO-T (as in the photo) they are even adopted for chemical warfare. There were earlier, non-serial BTR-T based on the T-55. But they cannot be called a full-fledged approach to the creation of unified platforms, and the implementation leaves much to be desired - there is no way out from the stern, through a ramp or swing doors. The fighters must parachute into the hatches on the roof or through the hatches in the rear wall of the habitable compartment - directly on the roof of the logistical equipment. Convenient or safe such a layout can not be called. Yes fits in the BMO-T total 7 people.



This is the alleged type of TBTR "Armata". Moreover, such an option as in the picture is exactly an armored personnel carrier, i.e. machine only transporting infantry safely. Armament in the form of a large-caliber, remote-controlled machine gun can hardly be called adequate weapons fire support, rather, it is a weapon of self-defense. But such an option has minimal dimensions, with the proper level of implementation of such a large-scale MUM (remotely controlled weapon module) does not take up any space inside, it can be controlled by the vehicle commander, replacing the unnecessary gunner-operator. As a result, the TBTRT capacity increases, you can immediately transport a greater number of infantrymen (for example, in the Omsk TBTR project, with the engine at the back, by the way, together with the commander and the driver-mechanic were placed from 13 to 15 people). Note also that the TBTR case is higher than that of the tank - the car not only has to carry more number of infantrymen, it also has to be more spacious inside. And its overall height and visibility do not play such a big role, especially since this is offset by the absence of a tower.

TBMP

In addition to TBTR, the TBMP will also be developed, describing its features for the media, a source in the Defense Ministry highlighted the new anti-tank complex of increased efficiency that could hit low-flying aircraft.

The existence of a TBMP in the presence of a tank and TBTR can be a controversial issue, but it seems that the Defense Ministry has already decided everything. Both the TBTR and the TBMP will have protection at the tank level (that is, significant, far surpassing the protection of the BMP and medium-level armored personnel carriers).

Moreover, in the Armata family, as already noted, there will be a place for self-propelled guns, BREM and WRI. Will the self-propelled guns be famous for the double-barreled "Coalition-SV" on the chassis from "Almaty", or whether the WRI will be similar to that in this picture (from Alexey Khlopotov's blog), it remains only to guess:



"Kurganets-25"

First, a little history. As you know, BMP-3 was conceived as a single, unified machine for the Soviet army. She was supposed to arrive not only in the ground forces and marines, but even in the airborne forces. And if the land version of the BMP-3 was safely accepted and is still being mass-produced, and the BMP-3F arrives at the marine corps with a creak, then the paratroopers did not receive their "landing" BMP-3, although the machine was tested by parachute landing, a special parachute system P-235 "Fable" was developed. The story of the refusal of the Airborne Forces from the BMP-3 and the adoption of the BMD-3 has many nuances, this is a long conversation, I will not dwell on it.

But they could not completely abandon the idea of ​​a single infantry vehicle. Apparently the work went on constantly, the result was the publication of information about the Kurganets United War Machine (the picture is taken from the website alternathistory.org.ua).



It was mentioned by Colonel-General Sergey Mayev back in 2004, as part of the article “The Russian army relies on the unification of armored vehicles”.

"Currently, a single lightly armored vehicle is being created on the Kurganets theme, a single armored personnel carrier on the Rostock theme and a single battle tank," said Sergey Mayev. (by the way, don't you find some kind of irony in this?).

As you can see, it was a fairly light tracked vehicle, with the ability to parachute parachute with the landing force inside. Its armament provided for the installation of a medium-caliber automatic cannon (apparently 57mm). Mentioned and modular booking, which allowed a flexible approach to the issue of protecting the machine (for example, armor was removed during the landing).

Obviously, the future unified platform "Kurganets-25" will be based on EBM developments "Kurganets" as well as "Armata" will be based on developments on the 195 Object, and "Boomerang", respectively, on developments on the BTR-90.

The overall chassis for the family is likely to have one scheme - with a front engine, and a ramp (or swing doors) at the rear. The combat compartment (module) for the BMP is rumored to have been developed in the PCU, the traditional supplier of the BO for domestic BMP. Therefore, with high probability, the Kurganets-25 will not have an automatic 57mm gun, since it was promoted by the Burevestnik Design Bureau. There will be something else. Will it be the development of the famous KBPshnya "triad" of 100mm guns, 30mm autocannon and machine gun - is unknown.

A separate conversation - the architecture of the new BO. A classic BW with a turret basket with a BC and crew members in it can easily be replaced with a combat module with a remotely controlled tower, and with minimal placement inside the car’s body (the whole BC is out of habitable volume - which is important for the defeat of BC, it’s one thing to knock the BC on the outside, “on the armor” Examples of such combat modules can be easily found abroad - you shouldn’t look particularly, for example, the Ukrainian “Parus” and “Grom”. Well, or option - Israeli modules, such as the Samson RCWS-30. And yet what kind of BO will stand on "Kurgants-25" - as long as a big mystery.

As for the family itself, Major General Shevchenko has already partially revealed to us its composition, in addition to the traditional BMP there will be an increased-capacity BTR, and BREM.

In addition, there was information in the media that a machine would be developed for the Marine Corps, with its own specifics. There is an erroneous opinion that the car will be developed on the basis of “Almaty” - this is an obvious absurdity. It is clear that this will be only a modification of the "Kurganza-25", as the BMP-3F was a modification of the BMP-3. However, "and here Mistral got" - it is said that the new BMP will have a drive from the engine to the propeller, which will allow to achieve greater speed on the water (even indicated the approximate speed in 25-30km / h) - and, accordingly, fast over-horizon landing will be available landing ship. It is not clear whether the machine will have a gliding ability, like the Chinese equivalent of ZBD-2000 (much in it echoes the “Kurgan-25MP”), but it is quite likely.



Chinese ZBD-2000.

At first glance, the idea of ​​an armored personnel carrier based on a BMP also seems absurd. And yet - it has its advantages: the unification of equipment in the division, with the aim of simplifying maintenance / supply on the one hand and equipping with cheaper (importantly, the BMPs are equipped with expensive BOs with complex SLA) units that do not need to use full-fledged BMP. In addition, more soldiers are banally placed in the BTR - this is an important advantage.

Moreover, Kurganmashzavod already has experience. In addition to the unified chassis based on the BMP-3, on which specific machines were created - the BREM-L "Beglyanka", the chassis under the "Chrysanthemum-S" and so on: there was also an interesting design of the machine with a steel case of increased capacity, based on the CSM "Potok" . It was called 502TB. With proper imagination, such a machine can be represented as an armored troop-carrier, and projected onto the "Kurganets-25" (naturally with great reservations, and yet - probably its body will be higher than that of the BMP, as is the case with the Arbat TBTRD):



And finally - the landing machine based on the "Kurgants-25". It seems to many that 25 is tons, it turns out that the family of cars will be quite heavy, it is even more than Sprut-SD. This is true, but not entirely true. According to one information, 25 is the upper limit of the mass of the family. And the amphibious assault vehicle, with the modular booking removed, will be quite suitable for the airborne weight and size. As practice shows, you do not even need a special chassis with adjustable ground clearance - even on the same BMD-4М they returned to the chassis from the BMP-3 with torsions.

Naturally, only 3-5 will not be limited to machines in the family. Keeping in mind the unification with the wheel platform and the tank, one can estimate what many different types and modifications on the Kurganza-25 platform can be created. A simple example - based on BMD-3, it was intended to create a family of 25 (!) Different machines:



And finally, one rumor, very reliable, from one profile forum:

So, I repeat my perished message

In the 20 of November, the protection of the technical project "Kurganets-25" will take place. The machine will be presented in three versions: BMP, BTR (type of Namara) and BREM. The armament complex will not be liked by many, but for now I will not be voicing. In general, in my opinion, compared with those projects that I found, it turned out to be a step back.

Open information will appear you can argue on this topic.


A small comment: the definition of "BTR (type of Namara)" for a fairly light machine seems absurd, but it most likely refers to the appearance - a tracked BTR with an increased body for the landing, the absence of a large BO, instead a remote-controlled machine gun - quite similarly from afar to " Intemer. "

Well, the general tone of the communication still pleases - it looks like the Kurganets-25 will be the second, after the Typhoon armored vehicles, embodied in the metal, a representative of the family of "unified platforms". Previously, information has already passed that of the three "combat" platforms, the Kurganets-25, is the most elaborated.

It remains only to wait.
29 comments
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  1. 0
    21 November 2011 07: 43
    Where, then, was the author able to observe the BMP-3 in the Marine Corps? They were armed with just one company of the 390 PMP of the 55th Marine Division in the Pacific Fleet. It was, in my opinion, 10 BMP-3 and 2 BMP-3F. But after the first Chechen campaign, they were transferred partly to the FEFU and partly to the Ground Forces. And there were no more BMP-3s in the Marine Corps. At one time, they tried to put the BMD-4 into service, but the topic seems to have died.
    1. 0
      21 November 2011 08: 16
      Anyone who put me a minus can justify his action?
    2. +3
      21 November 2011 10: 39
      Last year, it was reported that the 155th Marine Brigade of the Pacific Fleet should receive the BMP-3F. If, because of the gossip of the Ministry of Defense and Kurganmash, they did not receive the cars, then it is not destiny. That's what I wrote, "with a creak."
      1. 0
        21 November 2011 11: 05
        No, we didn't. It's reinforced concrete. Before the collapse of the Union, the 3th Marine Company of the 9th Regiment was armed on the BMP-390. For military tests. Experts from the Kurgan plant, who lived in the regiment for several months, helped to master the technique. It was planned in the future to reorganize the marine division into two marine brigades - one on the BMP-3, and the other on the BTR-80. In this case, abandon the presence of tanks. But the Union collapsed. The tank regiment of the division and tank battalions of the marine regiments were disbanded, while the division was not reorganized into two brigades. In the 94th year, the 390th regiment was re-equipped with BMP-2. Troikas gathered dust in the boxes as a reminder of unfulfilled hopes, and after the first Chechen war they were transferred to other units and institutions. Well, by December 2009, the 55th DMP was reformed into the 155th Marine Brigade, which is now armed with the BMP-2 and BTR-80. There were proposals to unify the armament of the marines and the airborne forces, for which it was proposed to transfer the marines to the BMD-4, but everything remained on paper.
        1. +3
          21 November 2011 11: 16
          It's a pity. Now Kurganmash has a fine from the Moscow Region. Bad situation.
          1. 0
            21 November 2011 11: 27
            The Kurgan plant with the new leadership of the Armed Forces is chronically unlucky.
        2. mitrich
          0
          21 November 2011 11: 20
          erix-xnumx,
          get ready, colleague. Kazakh "friend" will certainly try to refute your post.
          1. +2
            21 November 2011 11: 23
            ABOUT! Have you even noticed that I now have a fan? wink
            1. mitrich
              +5
              21 November 2011 11: 35
              erix-xnumx,
              don't be shy wink ! Your dialogues with Ereke have for some time now replaced "Good night, kids!" wink am wink !!!
              1. +1
                21 November 2011 11: 45
                Well, at least to bring benefits to people. wink
                1. mitrich
                  +2
                  21 November 2011 11: 59
                  erix-xnumx,
                  seriously, I would have stopped correspondence with him in your place. He has already humiliated users by calling himself a veteran of the First Chechen campaign. From his last posts, however, it becomes unclear FOR WHOM he was at war then, if at all, of course.
                  1. 0
                    21 November 2011 12: 24
                    Yes, he was not anywhere. So, a kitchen commando. A fan of clogging the air with a bunch of links from foreign magazines.
  2. Tjumenec72
    0
    21 November 2011 08: 50
    In general, nothing in Kurgan, we will wait ...
    Many people will not like the armament complex, but so far I will not voice it. In general, in my opinion, compared with those projects that I found, it turned out a step back. - apparently not really 57 mm
  3. semenar
    0
    21 November 2011 09: 28
    And yet - it has its advantages: the unification of equipment as part of the unit, in order to simplify maintenance / supply on the one hand, and equip cheaper (importantly, because BMPs are equipped with expensive military vehicles with sophisticated LMS) units that do not need to use full-fledged BMPs.
    How is it that a tracked platform is cheaper than a tracked one?
    1. +3
      21 November 2011 10: 14
      How is it that a tracked platform is cheaper than a tracked one?

      Meant that the tracked armored personnel carrier is cheaper than the tracked infantry fighting vehicle.
  4. 0
    21 November 2011 10: 43
    It can be seen from the pictures that a single modular unified chassis is being created, but the innovation lies in the fact that in addition to such "classic applications" to the tank as ARVs and self-propelled guns, heavy armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles are added, moreover, with a front engine, which makes it possible to realize a full-fledged aft landing exit through the ramp or swing doors

    From these pictures, just this can not see
    Gur Khan has more distinct images with front-facing MTOs.
    If we take the whole line of T-99 "Priortet" as the basis, then the line-up of all other machines looks clearly different.


    belay
    1. +3
      21 November 2011 11: 00
      I admit, it’s hard to see - the pictures are small, and I needed to bring pictures from the chassis with the front and rear engine.

      But excuse me, Khlopotov redrawn "Priority" from the T-90M, and that was a long time ago, before the pictures from zelezki.ru. He did not particularly refute them, he even added images of the TBTR on his own.

      What does the image of a tank have to do with it, from Losik-Brilev's article "Do tanks have a future?"
      1. 0
        21 November 2011 12: 32
        What does the image of a tank have to do with it, from Losik-Brilev's article "Do tanks have a future?"

        I, quite so put it.
        But, after all, Losik-Brilev also speaks of a single platform of military vehicles of the echelon of the first line (the base is the main battle tank), respectively, all other vehicles at its base.
        I found it appropriate to bring a picture with the front layout of the MTO.
        Once "Armata" is considered basic in relation to this line.
        ps I took the data from DIMMI (the person responsible, checks all the info). smile
        1. 0
          21 November 2011 13: 15
          The Losik-Brilev concept is quite controversial, there are many unexpected, unconventional technical solutions. In its line of vehicles there is no TBTR, there is a certain "rifle tank", also, in some way, different from TBMP. And in general, the proposed cars are very "vanguard" - what are the engines in the fenders.

          There are good reasons to believe that the "Armata", like the Object 195, will have a classic layout, with MTO in the stern.
  5. dred
    -1
    21 November 2011 12: 17
    There are few pictures.
  6. KGB161rus
    +3
    21 November 2011 12: 25
    Experienced promising main tank. The development of a promising project of the tank began within the framework of the research and development competition "Improvement-88" (1988). The lead developer is the Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering (Nizhny Tagil), the production of tanks is carried out by PO Uralvagonzavod (UVZ, Nizhny Tagil). R&D co-executors: FSUE NIID, JSC VNITM, JSC VNITI, JSC Ural NITI, FSUE Plant No. 9, FSUE PO Barrikady, FSUE TsNIIM, JSC VPMZ Molot, NPO Elektromashina "Which includes SKB" Rotor ", etc. The assembly of the first prototype" object 195 "was carried out at UVZ in 1999-2000. For the first time, the development of the object 195 tank was announced in the media in July 2001. In 2006, the media reported that the tank had passed state tests. In 2007, it was planned to complete tests of the prototype in 2008 and in 2009 to take the tank into service. In 2008, prototype 2 prototypes were tested as part of the second stage of state tests - in total, two prototypes were built. As of the beginning of 2010, it is reported that the tank is undergoing state tests which will be completed in the period from 2010 to 2015. It was assumed that the tank would be put into service under the name T-95 in 2010. Serial production, it was believed, would be deployed at the Uralvagonzavod PA. On April 9, 2010, the Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia V. Popovkin announced that the program for the creation of "Object 195" was closed and the adoption of the tank was not planned. In the fall of 2010, information appeared about the start of a new design and development work on the basis of the object 195 tank. The data for the experimental tank are inaccurate and are based on publications in the open press, as well as on probabilistic estimates.



    Presumptive drawing of "object 195" (upper version)

    MBT "Hammer"




    By the period of the collapse of the Soviet Union, several projects of new generation tanks appeared, created by the Kharkov and Leningrad design bureaus. But mastering the production of a new complex tank required both very long lead times and funding. Only the development of serial production of the Hammer tank by industry and the elimination of its “childhood diseases” would require a period of at least 8 years. The developments carried out during the Soviet era allowed the creation of such tanks as the Black Eagle, which was originally developed as a project for the modernization of the T-80 tank.

    The first projects for the development of a new generation tank, the main idea of ​​which was an external gun, began in the early 80s, the Kharkov Design Bureau developed its own project of the promising tank "Object 477", also known as "Rebel", "Boxer" and, subsequently - “Hammer” invested billions of rubles in the development, but achieving optimal viable solutions took a lot more time than planned, the development of the tank was delayed. The automatic loader was complex and required further refinement. The first prototypes of the tank appeared in the late eighties, however, they were just hulls. With the collapse of the USSR, the situation was even worse. The refinement of the "filling" of the tank was stretched and took another many years. It was possible to bring the tank to readiness for production only by the end of the 90s.


    Features
    The weight


    about 50 tons

    Volume of reserved space


    ---

    Tower volume


    ---

    Crew


    3

    Engine


    - 6TD diesel engine (In the future, 6TD-3 with a capacity of more than 1500 hp)



    Speed ​​on the road


    more than 75 km / h

    Cross country speed


    more than 50 km / h

    weight / power ratio


    not less than 28 hp per ton

    Ground pressure


    about 0.8 kg / cmXNUMX

    Stroke range


    ---

    Overcoming obstacles




    Forcing water barriers


    ---

    Trenches


    ---

    Vertical obstacles


    ---

    Max. Gradient


    ---

    Weapon




    Main gun


    152 mm

    Stabilization


    ---

    Rate of fire


    ---

    Ammunition


    34 shot

    Types of ammunition


    BPS, OFS, KUV

    EQUIPMENT




    FRONT AND SIDE ARMOR


    Multi-layer combined using the new generation of integrated dynamic protection,

    Front and side armoring (equivalent to homogeneous steel armor)


    Against BPS:

    Presumably at least 1200 mm.

    Against Cumulative Ammunition:

    Estimated at least 1800

    (Equivalent to homogeneous steel armor excluding integrated dynamic protection


    Here is the new generation Chinese tank concept









    Well, such a version is likely that with the adoption of the "six-inch" caliber, an "arms race" in the armored sphere may well begin, up to the mass rearrangement of tanks from 120mm to 140mm caliber. And such a decision simply does not provoke our "potential opponents / reset friends."

    What fears can there be when we are not alone interested in creating a new generation tank.
    1. 0
      21 November 2011 13: 17
      The "Chinese supertank" is most likely a myth.
      1. gAMauzer
        0
        21 November 2011 17: 25
        Not "rather wego", but for sure. The picture is unrealizable, at the current level of development of science and technology, and simply - disproportionate.
    2. gAMauzer
      +3
      21 November 2011 17: 24
      Yeah, as in the book Berezin had a five-hundred-ton heavy "Masis-17" with a five-barreled main battery and a pair of auxiliary barrels. wink

      We recall history: the previous "tank race" (late 40s - mid 60s) already gave us tanks with 0 mm rifled guns (IS-130), and tanks with a launcher (Sheridan, MVT- 7, Soviet "rocket" projects). However, although the conditions of this race were much tougher, the "trends" were different: we compare the T-70-55-62 with the chronological "relatives" - AMX-64, "Leopard" -30, M-1. The similarity - ideological - we find only with the latter.

      According to the Soviet (remaining to us, along with tank building, legacy) doctrine, the tank is the main shock means. He needed a powerful gun not only to fight tanks, but also to destroy fortifications, manpower, etc. - hence the desire to increase the caliber.

      According to the NATO concept, tanks are the main anti tank means. Hence, the requirements for the FCS and the maximum "armor-piercing" of the caliber with the smallest possible numerical value (practically, until the 70s-80s, the main NATO "tank" caliber was 105 mm). Small caliber means more ammunition and higher rate of fire. The concept of "less quantity, but more quality".

      Therefore, they do not need 140-155 mm caliber - they do not need anything. Moreover, with their current rate of interest on airmobility. By the way, the AGS tank (American "Combat Systems of the Future") was supposed to have 120 mm with 20 tons of weight and the requirement for airmobility.
      1. KGB161rus
        0
        21 November 2011 18: 49
        Dear gAMauzer, does this also sound like a myth?

























































        The Chinese have created a fifth-generation fighter, which prevents them from creating a tank
      2. KGB161rus
        +5
        21 November 2011 19: 10
        Respected gAMauzer China already has a fifth generation fighter, and is also building an orbital station (analogous to our Mir station), which is now true. So it prevents them from building such a tank, albeit not one to one, but similar.
    3. +1
      21 November 2011 19: 09
      Quote: KGB161rus
      What fears can there be when we are not alone interested in creating a new generation tank.

      I don’t really believe in the creation of a new tank by the Chinese. Recently, the entire Chinese breakthrough in the military sphere is based on copying other people's samples !!! To produce your own equipment and copy are things of different levels !!!
      1. KGB161rus
        +2
        21 November 2011 19: 13
        APASUSChina has potential !!!
        1. gAMauzer
          +1
          21 November 2011 19: 40
          China does not deny the potential of China. We even have it (minus, comrados, minus ...). But.

          Firstly, if it's not difficult for you, I would like to know at least the name of this "Chinese fifth generation fighter", since it already exists ("... he thinks, since he slept for 12 years, so he fell into a bright future ?!")

          Secondly: look - this miracle, with dimensions (and, presumably, reserved volume) and a body, apparently, Type-99 (judging by the blackened silhouette, although I may be mistaken) fits (attention!): 125 mm a gun; 4 12,7 mm machine guns, 2 automatic grenade launchers (?) And radar (!) In the HOUSE (!!!) on an uninhabited tower (!!!!!); crew - 2 people

          I saw something similar in Battle Isle 1-2 (I recommend this computer game, faithful to the "old school" canons). I also recall the "Masis-17" already mentioned by me above (or "Cyclops" from the same opera: 2 barrels, 200 tons and an atomic engine). wink

          The Chinese will be prevented from building such a tank (or something like that) by the total nonsense of such a "project", "developed" solely for propaganda purposes.
          1. KGB161rus
            +1
            21 November 2011 20: 50
            You overslept fighter J - 20 Chengdu





            1. Anatoly
              -1
              21 November 2011 22: 04
              With the world on a thread - the Chinese plane.
            2. Artem6688
              0
              3 July 2012 02: 26
              Chinese aircraft reminds MiG 1.44
  7. Artemka
    +3
    21 November 2011 13: 50
    Still put all these developments into production, then it will be!
  8. J_silver
    0
    21 November 2011 23: 04
    ... fortune telling on the coffee grounds of pique vests ...
  9. +1
    21 November 2011 23: 23
    I will say thanks to our developers of heavy equipment when at least one of their latest developments passes field tests and goes into service, and preferably not in a single copy.
    In the meantime, go for it and prove to the whole world that you are the best!
  10. andrey903
    0
    19 February 2012 15: 04
    Can obsolete tanks that are being mothballed be converted into heavy infantry fighting vehicles?
    1. Artem6688
      0
      3 July 2012 02: 24
      In Russia, the BTR-T was made on the basis of the T-55, but it did not pass the test according to its characteristics. So miserable get BMP based on old tanks.
  11. Sinc_KGN
    -1
    April 19 2012 18: 05
    According to preliminary estimates, about 200 different cars are planned on the Kurgan platform
  12. bask
    +1
    22 August 2012 20: 33
    The new unified platforms are super light. But questions arise. The concept of an armored personnel carrier should only be used for Typhuni Tiger vehicles ... All other platforms are BMP only. Armament is a 120 mm twin gun with 2 23 mm guns. And in the Kurgan variant with 57 mm, the C60 is an excellent cannon gun. all armored vehicles must have a thermal imager within 3 km of range and good communications. but until they arrive .T55 to T80 GM569 GM352. Put the MTO in the nose of the BMP Bakhcha Tower and have something to fight until 2020. Airborne landing has never been used in combat conditions. Why is it.
  13. 0
    1 June 2014 20: 36
    Please explain to me why do we need a tank with a gun?